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| 00:49.14 | blast007 | heh, I was confused why the build string was still saying VC10, and then I realize we hard-code that string.. ;) |
| 00:49.38 | JeffM | probably a way around that now |
| 00:49.43 | allejo | hard coding ftw! |
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| 00:51.02 | JeffM | can just dump _MSC_VER |
| 00:51.14 | blast007 | yep, just found that ;) http://nadeausoftware.com/articles/2012/10/c_c_tip_how_detect_compiler_name_and_version_using_compiler_predefined_macros |
| 00:51.47 | JeffM | problem is _MSC_VER isn't "12", it's 1800 |
| 00:51.54 | JeffM | but at least it's identifiable |
| 00:52.14 | blast007 | where do they pull that number from? |
| 00:52.24 | JeffM | CL.exe versioning |
| 00:52.32 | JeffM | it's actual compiler internal version |
| 00:52.39 | blast007 | bleh |
| 00:52.55 | JeffM | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/b0084kay.aspx |
| 00:53.11 | blast007 | I'm there too ;) |
| 00:53.52 | JeffM | you can switch on knonw version numbers, but it dosn't work well for unknown version numbers |
| 00:54.20 | blast007 | but anyways, I did managed to build a .exe and install with Visual C++ 2013 express with the XP mode enabled and it installed and ran on my XP system |
| 00:54.28 | JeffM | cool |
| 00:54.28 | blast007 | installer* |
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| 01:30.05 | spldart | God I love Rabbit Chase |
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| 01:41.41 | spldart | I know this is prolly totally obvious to the dev's but in the grand scheme of things the total data through-put when running a bzclient is actually tiny when compared to say watching youtube isn't it? It's just a TON of tiny packets that you need to move fast with no drops. |
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| 01:52.28 | blast007 | spldart: iirc, this was from 20 players and something like 60 to 80 observers on a single server, from the server's perspective: http://static.bzexcess.com/riker_cup.png (green it outbound, blue is inbound) |
| 01:52.58 | blast007 | so yeah, pretty minimal quantity of data, it's more about said data getting there in a short amount of time with minimal loss and jitter |
| 01:53.39 | blast007 | I would push out around 200 to 250GB of data a month when MW2.3 was popular, though |
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| 02:22.11 | spldart | interesting |
| 02:23.23 | spldart | thanks :) |
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| 02:33.08 | spldart | looks some more.. There is quite a gulf between inbound and outbound 8~0 |
| 02:33.24 | spldart | I guess that is to be expected though. |
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| 03:03.49 | blast007 | spldart: yep, inbound is roughly x*numplayers, while outbound is x*numplayers*(numplayers-1) (as each player receives updates for every other player) though it's a bit more complex as observers don't send updates but they do receive them. |
| 03:11.57 | spldart | gotcha |
| 03:12.40 | spldart | Actually i like the equation thinger. Made it very clear :) |
| 03:17.31 | spldart | Yah know. A long time ago it was easy to set up a hide-away box up at job and punch the appropriate holes to host a server in the router. But between the isp and the it department it's a pita to try to host a few small webservers remotely anymore and just ssh admin them :(. |
| 03:17.53 | spldart | now that I thi8nk of it that topic is prolly not all that appropriate :( |
| 03:18.22 | spldart | s/webservers/gameservers |
| 03:18.36 | spldart | oh well :/ |
| 03:20.30 | spldart | Boss prolly wouldn't mind. I'm indispensable. |
| 03:21.06 | spldart | I'll shaddup now :( |
| 03:21.33 | spldart | ooh... raspberry pi is getting dusty.... :) |
| 04:33.11 | spldart | I'm done :) |
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| 05:28.57 | DTRemenak | blast007: _MSC_VER is always 600 ahead of the actual version, since Visual C++ 4.0 (CL 10.0) in 1995. Even kept that pattern through VC7.1 (1310). Prior to that it was more confusing because Visual C++ was not the only product using CL. |
| 05:29.19 | DTRemenak | of course they COULD change it anytime, but 20 years is a pretty strong indicator ;) |
| 05:30.56 | DTRemenak | so it's probably pretty safe to write (_MSC_VER - 600) / 100 |
| 05:40.49 | allejo | hmm is it possible to fork something released into the public domain or would all future forks be public domain also? |
| 05:41.29 | allejo | and by the former, i mean give it a license. i'm gonna say no but i just wanted to check |
| 05:44.22 | DTRemenak | short (and US-specific) answer: you are free to relicense any public domain material, but your derived work is only partially covered by copyright. long answer: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf |
| 05:46.33 | allejo | ohh thank you |
| 05:50.06 | allejo | the link answered all my questions, thanks DTRemenak :D |
| 05:50.12 | DTRemenak | np :) |
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| 15:10.59 | alpha1-2 | Hi, today Ducati match/es at the evening, be alert! |
| 15:11.34 | WarPig | 'evening' for you is probably not 'evening' for me. :P |
| 15:12.02 | blast007 | it is if we use UGT time! |
| 15:12.05 | blast007 | ~ugt |
| 15:12.05 | infobot | from memory, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
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| 15:13.14 | WarPig | Completely unhelpful if I am to know when to arrive for the Ducati match. |
| 15:13.29 | WarPig | ...but interesting, nonetheless |
| 15:14.00 | blast007 | hehehe |
| 15:14.24 | alpha1-2 | My impression is that almost all the developers are from USA, what do you think? |
| 15:14.49 | WarPig | I think today is Boomtime, the 28th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3180 |
| 15:14.51 | blast007 | alpha1-2: depends what you mean by "almost" and "all" and "developers" :P |
| 15:14.58 | WarPig | heh |
| 15:15.34 | blast007 | and the USA does have multiple timezones as well... so some UTC times would be nice |
| 15:19.50 | alpha1-2 | yes, blast007, I have considered UTC times, and I was finding the best time for all the 5 or 4 hours of difference of USA, then I called "evening" in general. But I will anounce it more precisely when we are nearer. |
| 15:28.14 | alpha1-2 | "<WarPig> ...but interesting, nonetheless", yes, WarPig, we are trying to keep strong and fresh the development spirit through matches this week. It is a shame that our dear developers lose the fun and the comradeship of sharing some matches together. Though the invitation is for all, not only for the developers. |
| 15:28.40 | alpha1-2 | (excuse me that I am some slow with the English) |
| 15:30.05 | blast007 | really don't understand what it has to do with "development spirit" |
| 15:31.26 | alpha1-2 | Ay... why it is too hard... :) |
| 15:32.15 | kierra | WarPig, show up evening, east coast time on ducati and I will pwn you! |
| 15:32.25 | kierra | throws the gauntlet down! |
| 15:33.04 | kierra | now back to work! |
| 15:33.49 | alpha1-2 | Is it too hard to understand, blast007, that when you work for something, you need to see or try what you work for? When you work with a team, you need to share time with them? You need to create a good ambience between all? |
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| 15:41.25 | alpha1-2 | see you later |
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| 18:33.15 | kierra | looks forward to shooting blast007 on bz :D |
| 18:33.26 | kierra | come bond with me, blast007 |
| 18:33.31 | blast007 | I was going to play? :P |
| 18:33.42 | blast007 | I'm at work |
| 18:34.01 | kierra | ik, but later you wont be ;) |
| 18:45.51 | blast007 | motions to the cot set up in the corner of his office |
| 18:48.37 | kierra | :PPPP |
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| 20:53.19 | khonkhortisan | How do I change the game language? |
| 20:53.39 | khonkhortisan | I see data/l10n/*.po files |
| 20:55.51 | alezakos | Options > GUI Settings > Locale |
| 21:07.56 | khonkhortisan | Svenska has 0x8 sprinkled everywhere, and Espanol has n where there should be ñ, ? where there should be ¿. This is interesting. The spanish .po file really does have ¿ and ñ in it, and bzflag is just replacing the characters, but the swedish .po has characters that appear to be in a different encoding than my editors use. |
| 21:13.09 | khonkhortisan | kate opens each .po in utf8, but guesses iso-8859-15 for data/l10n/bzflag_sv.po. I make the claim that this file (swedish translation) is corrupted (both in git and svn) |
| 21:19.55 | khonkhortisan | For example, for msgid "Locale:" it has msgstr "SprÂk:" when I think the correct string is msgstr "SprÃ¥k:" |
| 21:20.44 | alezakos | IIRC, bzflag's font doesn't support UTF-8, so you can only get ascii chars on the game |
| 21:22.14 | alezakos | The 2.99 branch did have experimental UTF-8 support, however |
| 21:23.00 | khonkhortisan | Even if bzflag did support utf-8, the swedish translation wouldn't render right (and spanish would) |
| 21:26.00 | khonkhortisan | btw, is the 2.99 branch on git? I see a net branch and a shot branch. |
| 21:32.02 | blast007 | "wouldn't render right" meaning what? |
| 21:32.30 | blast007 | the 2.99.x stuff is in a tag |
| 21:33.45 | khonkhortisan | The spanish translation file uses unicode characters, but bzflag doesn't support unicode, so it's replaced with ascii. The swedish translation uses invalid unicode characters, so bzflag replaces a single character with three (0x8). |
| 21:36.13 | khonkhortisan | Thanks, I didn't think of tags. |
| 21:37.07 | blast007 | where is the invalid unicode character in the swedish file? |
| 21:38.17 | blast007 | oh, you mentioned Locale |
| 21:38.23 | khonkhortisan | data/l10n/bzflag_sv.po line 4 column 12 |
| 21:38.45 | blast007 | wonder if it was ever right or if it got messed up going from CVS to SVN or SVN to Git |
| 21:38.46 | khonkhortisan | where the å should be in "Språk:" (at least, I'm guessing that's an å) |
| 21:39.04 | khonkhortisan | it's messed up in current svn. I haven't checked cvs. |
| 21:39.34 | blast007 | don't think our CVS exists anymore |
| 21:40.06 | blast007 | looks like it has been that way for quite some time: http://svn.code.sf.net/p/bzflag/code/tags/v1_7g2/bzflag/data/l10n/bzflag_sv.po |
| 21:41.23 | khonkhortisan | svn blame says riker for the bad characters, dbrosius for other stuff like newlines and comments. It probably was a bad cvs-svn conversion. |
| 21:43.14 | khonkhortisan | ÃÃÃåäö are all swedish uses, it shouldn't be too hard to fix it. |
| 21:43.19 | khonkhortisan | looks for a good hex viewer |
| 21:44.16 | khonkhortisan | ah, hexdump -C |
| 21:51.49 | blast007 | seems like it was broken way back when it was first put into CVS |
| 21:52.24 | blast007 | from Jan 24, 2003 when it was first added: http://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/bzflag/data/l10n/bzflag_sv.po?revision=1.1.2.1&content-type=text%2Fplain&pathrev=v1_7 |
| 21:57.10 | blast007 | kierra: so, I am home now :) |
| 22:17.51 | khonkhortisan | I feel like I have a rosetta stone. Sprák and Inställningar are valid words, so my conversion table starts off å is 8c to c3 a5, ä is 8a to c3 a4. |
| 22:18.02 | khonkhortisan | Whoops, I mean Språk. |
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| 22:55.49 | khonkhortisan | I have the hex conversion table for the 6 special characters, but then the rest of the file isn't in unicode if I do a simple find/replace. |
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| 23:17.09 | alpha1-2 | Ducati *late* match/es - for the development spirit: in 1 hour 45 min. aprox. (1 UTC), all invited! |
| 23:59.02 | khonkhortisan | lol I started talking into the wrong channel |
| 23:59.15 | khonkhortisan | it happened to load my backup of the translation. So for "On", the file had msgstr "PÂ" and now it has msgstr "PÃ¥". Bzflag used to show "P0x8C", now it shows "Paa". It's not perfect, but it's better. Fortunately the data was preserved. |
| 23:59.24 | khonkhortisan | https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag-import-3/pull/4 |
