| 00:35.07 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 00:35.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 02:36.08 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM__ (~JeffM@2605:e000:7d02:c700:493b:d97:90fb:dfe1) |
| 03:46.09 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteor (~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 03:56.42 | *** join/#bzflag alpha1-2 (~alpha1-2@host30.201-252-136.telecom.net.ar) |
| 04:06.59 | alpha1-2 | Hi BZ secretaries :D |
| 04:07.27 | alpha1-2 | (I just wonder who the Chief Secretary is...) |
| 04:08.26 | alpha1-2 | Well, it worked! It seems that infobot only registers the departures when you use the "/part" command, though it does't save the part message. It doesn't register the "Connection reset by peer" cases neither. |
| 04:08.27 | alpha1-2 | http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/20140921.html.gz |
| 04:19.51 | JeffM__ | alpha1-2, chief who? |
| 04:21.02 | alpha1-2 | not sure if good English but if you have several secretaries, you have to have a superior one that rule them |
| 04:21.11 | alpha1-2 | rules* |
| 04:21.32 | Flash | one ring to rule them all ... |
| 04:21.43 | JeffM | what do you mean by "Secretaries" ? |
| 04:23.16 | alpha1-2 | see the link I wrote before, there it is the reason of this joke :) |
| 04:24.04 | JeffM | about ibot? |
| 04:24.46 | alpha1-2 | no, yesterday I wrote something related to "secretaries", some long to explain in 1 line |
| 04:24.59 | JeffM | umm ok |
| 04:31.04 | JeffM | I just didn't know if you meant like "Secretay of defense" or someone who answers the phone and makes coffie |
| 04:31.20 | Flash | more the latter |
| 04:31.56 | JeffM | ahh |
| 04:32.19 | Flash | there were several exchanges, culminating in brad being dubbed allejo's secretary |
| 04:34.52 | allejo | oh cool |
| 04:35.29 | alpha1-2 | yes, I think he has talent... just he would need a blonde wig and done ;) |
| 04:36.15 | alpha1-2 | what do you think, allejo? like the blondes? ;) |
| 04:37.10 | allejo | blondes work |
| 04:39.12 | JeffM | and you can't have him dye it? |
| 04:40.21 | alpha1-2 | but he likes long hair secretaries, JeffM, and that takes time, you know :) |
| 04:40.23 | allejo | I like the way you think, jeff |
| 04:40.40 | JeffM | hair style should not matter in a job |
| 04:40.45 | allejo | who said i liked long hair secretaries? |
| 04:40.47 | JeffM | that'd be discrimination |
| 04:40.48 | allejo | ^ |
| 04:40.55 | JeffM | unless you wanted to hire him as a model/secretary |
| 04:41.12 | alpha1-2 | and being good looking neither? |
| 04:41.49 | JeffM | why would you care what a secretary looked like? |
| 04:42.04 | alpha1-2 | oh, brad, it's your lucky day, then! hehe |
| 04:42.56 | allejo | jeff, well you could have your secretary scare people away |
| 04:43.15 | JeffM | not all secretaries are receptionists |
| 04:43.22 | JeffM | there is a job title of "devlopment secretary" |
| 04:43.27 | JeffM | they get the info the devlopers need |
| 04:43.39 | alpha1-2 | yes, I think when he becomes upset, he makes weird/scary faces, yes... |
| 04:43.44 | allejo | oh what? that's pretty cool actually |
| 04:43.53 | JeffM | yeah it's a good job |
| 04:44.18 | JeffM | you know something about delopment, but just do research, get info, talk to customers, etc... |
| 04:44.30 | JeffM | it frees up developer time to just work |
| 04:44.32 | alpha1-2 | nice, I haven't heard that |
| 04:44.44 | Flash | I've never heard of such a thing |
| 04:44.46 | alpha1-2 | a secretary for the developers B) |
| 04:44.50 | JeffM | usualy they work with project management to make sure eveything goes smoothly |
| 04:44.58 | alpha1-2 | let's hire one fo us! hehe |
| 04:45.01 | alpha1-2 | for* |
| 04:45.11 | Flash | Trying to make developers productive? Next thing you know they will be paid commensurate with their ability! |
| 04:45.13 | JeffM | it's more common in places that are making software that has to meet a lot of requirements, or APIs etc.. |
| 04:45.29 | JeffM | Flash, well 80% of the ability :) |
| 04:45.49 | Flash | radical! |
| 04:46.13 | JeffM | the one I knew was working for a company that did finanical software for car loans, the secretary made sure that the devs had all the info on current loan forms and such. |
| 04:46.15 | allejo | do you have one, jeff? well not you, but your work? |
| 04:46.20 | JeffM | no we do not |
| 04:46.35 | JeffM | but we have some people who do that kind of work for us |
| 04:46.53 | JeffM | I can say "I need more info about this" and they will go get me docs and such |
| 04:47.22 | alpha1-2 | like kind of an administrative work, JeffM? |
| 04:47.40 | JeffM | it's data collection, usualy for requrements and compliance |
| 04:47.54 | JeffM | it's development related, but not direct coding |
| 04:48.13 | alpha1-2 | okay, I see |
| 04:48.46 | JeffM | in our project I don't think there would be a call for one |
| 04:51.30 | alpha1-2 | okay, just kidding :) |
| 04:51.54 | alpha1-2 | Another topic: why do meshes are much more complex/heavy than boxes or triangles? Just because they have a lot of triangles/shapes into them or cause of any other thing? |
| 04:52.15 | JeffM | they are not always convex |
| 04:52.30 | JeffM | and they have more faces |
| 04:53.03 | JeffM | collision for convex things is much easer then concave |
| 04:54.36 | alpha1-2 | more faces but they can have textures on them also or not? |
| 04:54.57 | JeffM | Ether or |
| 04:55.20 | JeffM | if you define UV coordinates we will use them for the texture, if you don't we generate texture coordinates for it |
| 04:55.30 | JeffM | everthing is always texured in some way |
| 04:55.51 | alpha1-2 | oh you mean using just a color would be a texture also? |
| 04:56.13 | JeffM | yeah in the end eveything gets drawn the same way |
| 04:56.21 | JeffM | we have a default mesh texture |
| 04:56.29 | alpha1-2 | ah |
| 04:56.52 | JeffM | OpenGL needs to know what to do :) |
| 04:58.43 | JeffM | on modern cards having a texture dosn't really slow things down that much, it just uses more memory |
| 04:59.11 | JeffM | it'd be a little faster with no texture due to the fact that you'd not have to interpolate texels, but cards have dedicated hardware for that now |
| 05:00.26 | alpha1-2 | and by telling that collisions are harder for concave things you mean that on those surfaces the shots would bounce a lot more? |
| 05:01.06 | alpha1-2 | or tanks climbing maybe too |
| 05:01.13 | JeffM | no, the math to figure out the bounce just takes longer |
| 05:01.24 | JeffM | it SHOULD behave the same, just take more math |
| 05:01.37 | JeffM | but there are bugs in the mesh colliders |
| 05:01.47 | JeffM | so it behaves a little diferent then the legacy objects |
| 05:03.43 | alpha1-2 | I don't understand, you tell that it takes more maths but at once you tell that it is buggy, what is the main cause, then? |
| 05:03.56 | JeffM | the bugs |
| 05:04.09 | JeffM | the math is harder to do, but the results of the math SHOULD be the same as the box collider |
| 05:04.12 | JeffM | but it isn't |
| 05:04.15 | JeffM | so that means it has bugs |
| 05:04.32 | JeffM | since the math is more complex, it's harder for developers to get it correct |
| 05:04.52 | JeffM | 2.99 had better mesh collision code, in that branch we had everyone use it, even boxes and pyramids |
| 05:05.30 | alpha1-2 | ah but you tell that it shoud be the same just cause of the speed of the processors nowadays, right? |
| 05:05.48 | JeffM | no, I don't mean the same processing time |
| 05:05.52 | JeffM | I mean the same collision results |
| 05:06.10 | JeffM | you should collide with a box the same way you collide with a complex tree |
| 05:06.15 | JeffM | I mean the end result |
| 05:06.31 | JeffM | the tank should stop where it hits the geometry |
| 05:06.40 | JeffM | regardless of if it's a box or a tree |
| 05:06.48 | JeffM | it will just take more cycles to do the tree |
| 05:07.36 | alpha1-2 | okay, then, you mean the algorythm? |
| 05:07.42 | JeffM | yes |
| 05:07.48 | alpha1-2 | I see |
| 05:07.52 | JeffM | for a box you can take a shortcut in the math |
| 05:07.59 | JeffM | and always do it faster |
| 05:08.08 | JeffM | specialy since we only rotate in one axis |
| 05:08.38 | JeffM | transform the tank into the boxes coordinate system, then just check to see if it's outside of the X,Y,and Z range |
| 05:08.51 | JeffM | there is never any valid cases where you can be "inside" any of the faces |
| 05:09.15 | JeffM | for a concave object, there are valid cases, you can be Under the branches of a tree, not hitting the trunk for example |
| 05:09.31 | JeffM | in that case you'd be "behind" the leaves, but it's valid |
| 05:10.16 | alpha1-2 | that is why when I load a map like Pirate or Bridge Crossing in my low resources machine it takes more processing (and I can note it) |
| 05:10.42 | alpha1-2 | in BC I had to diable the "rain" effect |
| 05:10.44 | JeffM | no, that's probably just drawing more triangles |
| 05:10.48 | alpha1-2 | disable* |
| 05:11.03 | JeffM | your CPU does more work then most modern cards |
| 05:11.13 | alpha1-2 | and in P, apart of that, I had to change to meddium Quality |
| 05:11.22 | JeffM | You had what 8 shader processors? |
| 05:12.58 | JeffM | are you haswell or Ivy Bridge? |
| 05:13.59 | alpha1-2 | searching that |
| 05:14.20 | JeffM | what CPU is it? |
| 05:15.06 | alpha1-2 | a moment |
| 05:15.26 | alpha1-2 | http://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=18633 |
| 05:16.26 | JeffM | oof, Arrandale |
| 05:17.09 | JeffM | ok, you have 12 execution units |
| 05:17.29 | alpha1-2 | execution units of what? |
| 05:17.42 | JeffM | the card can draw 12 pixels in each clock |
| 05:17.48 | alpha1-2 | for concurrency? |
| 05:17.51 | JeffM | yeah |
| 05:17.57 | JeffM | that's how all modern cards work |
| 05:18.17 | JeffM | have multiple units work on different pixels at a time |
| 05:18.55 | JeffM | so, compared to my low end, but more modern, laptop, I have 384 execution units |
| 05:18.59 | alpha1-2 | well, I know it is a low resources machine, let's say, specially in 3D graphics, but it works fine for me |
| 05:19.50 | JeffM | Yeah it also uses the CPU to do geometry transformations |
| 05:19.58 | JeffM | so more triangles is not great for your card |
| 05:20.03 | alpha1-2 | then, I also thought that drawing a lot of triangles (in meshes for xample) would make all harder |
| 05:20.04 | JeffM | it does not scale well |
| 05:20.15 | JeffM | yes, more triangles is more work |
| 05:20.35 | JeffM | for you each triangle takes away CPU cycles |
| 05:20.58 | alpha1-2 | that is the key I think then |
| 05:21.05 | JeffM | nvidia and ATI cards will be able to do some minium number of triangles before it has to use the CPU |
| 05:21.18 | JeffM | so it scales better |
| 05:21.58 | JeffM | for intel, 12units was a big step up from 4 and 6 :) |
| 05:22.09 | alpha1-2 | what page are yo checking about my processor? |
| 05:22.28 | JeffM | http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Pentium-P6200-Notebook-Processor.40596.0.html |
| 05:22.45 | JeffM | it told me what chipset series you used |
| 05:22.51 | JeffM | so that means origonal intel HD |
| 05:23.01 | JeffM | and they all have 12 units, just at different clock speeds |
| 05:23.27 | alpha1-2 | but from 12 to 384! |
| 05:24.02 | JeffM | yeah the intels can't realy compare to discrete chipsets |
| 05:24.03 | alpha1-2 | which architecture are you talking about? |
| 05:24.17 | JeffM | I have an Nvida G745M |
| 05:24.23 | alpha1-2 | oh you mean GPUs? |
| 05:24.27 | JeffM | yeah |
| 05:24.35 | JeffM | you have an an Intel HD GPU |
| 05:24.41 | JeffM | it's built into your northbridge |
| 05:24.44 | alpha1-2 | ah okay, phew, I thought about CPUs |
| 05:25.18 | JeffM | no, your GPU only fills in pre-transformed triangles, so the CPU has to do the math to transform 3d triangles into 2d screen space |
| 05:25.20 | alpha1-2 | oh yes I know, big difference between both GPUs, mine is "generic" |
| 05:25.29 | JeffM | yours is "integrated" |
| 05:25.45 | alpha1-2 | onboard* yes |
| 05:25.51 | JeffM | this laptop has an intel onboard GPU too |
| 05:26.07 | alpha1-2 | oh nice |
| 05:26.25 | JeffM | not realy, the swaping between the 2 dosn't always work |
| 05:26.33 | JeffM | I have to turn it off sometimes |
| 05:26.39 | alpha1-2 | and how many execution units does it have? :) just curiosity |
| 05:27.16 | JeffM | I don't know, I'm trying to find out what it is |
| 05:27.22 | alpha1-2 | okay |
| 05:27.49 | JeffM | 20 it looks like |
| 05:27.58 | JeffM | it's an Intel HD 4400 |
| 05:28.25 | alpha1-2 | okay, well, not too difference, it is from which year? mine from 2010/11 I think |
| 05:28.44 | JeffM | it can do some geometry transformations tho, since it's shader model 5 instead of 2.1 |
| 05:29.16 | JeffM | this is a haswell i7 so probably late 2013, early 2014 |
| 05:29.45 | JeffM | I have it use the intel stuff when it's on battery, and the nvida when pluged in |
| 05:30.11 | alpha1-2 | oh this machine is called "mini-notebook" (not netbook), though the size is good for me |
| 05:31.09 | alpha1-2 | how do you plug the NVidia on? with a card connection? |
| 05:32.10 | JeffM | no, just when the laptop is plugged into the power adapter |
| 05:32.18 | JeffM | it's built in |
| 05:32.25 | alpha1-2 | aah okay |
| 05:33.10 | alpha1-2 | I used one... HP notebook in... 2010 also and it had an Nvidia built-in one also... I used Ubuntu and worked fine |
| 05:33.41 | alpha1-2 | but don't have many details of that machine |
| 05:34.08 | alpha1-2 | just I run the game Racer and I noted the difference with this machine |
| 05:34.48 | JeffM | just for comparison with a desktop card, the maxwel chipset nvida just made, has over 1600 excution units, and 4 gigs of ram |
| 05:35.00 | JeffM | so notebooks are on the low end |
| 05:35.08 | alpha1-2 | but, finally, I am happy with this one, it runs 3D programs well enough, with some little config changes |
| 05:36.07 | alpha1-2 | ah yes, notebooks always are made with lower resources |
| 05:36.11 | JeffM | they do make an 800 series notbook chip with 1500 units |
| 05:36.47 | JeffM | you can get that one with 8 gigs of VRAM :) |
| 05:37.24 | alpha1-2 | wow, I don't know much about 3D technology, tough |
| 05:37.48 | alpha1-2 | how much RAM does your Nvidia have? |
| 05:38.42 | JeffM | 2 Gigs |
| 05:39.26 | alpha1-2 | ah nice |
| 05:39.42 | alpha1-2 | and your main memory? |
| 05:39.46 | JeffM | 8 gigs |
| 05:39.53 | JeffM | it's a common configuation for midrange machines |
| 05:39.59 | alpha1-2 | okay I see |
| 05:40.04 | JeffM | it's only a 1.8 gig CPU tho |
| 05:40.15 | JeffM | I wish that was bumped up a bit |
| 05:40.23 | alpha1-2 | but how many cores? |
| 05:40.26 | alpha1-2 | oh I see |
| 05:40.29 | JeffM | 2 |
| 05:40.46 | alpha1-2 | some dizzy already, maybe the time too :) |
| 05:41.40 | alpha1-2 | ah "haswell i7" nice! that is the last one? :) |
| 05:42.23 | JeffM | I think so |
| 05:42.40 | JeffM | I don't know when the next one comes out |
| 05:42.42 | JeffM | proalby soon |
| 05:42.49 | alpha1-2 | I am some out of date about processors |
| 05:43.03 | alpha1-2 | (about the info) |
| 05:43.30 | JeffM | it's what I could find at a store after my macbook died :) |
| 05:43.35 | alpha1-2 | we always have to update, techy knowledge updates rather fast |
| 05:43.39 | alpha1-2 | or often* |
| 05:43.56 | JeffM | it was only about $1000USD |
| 05:44.07 | JeffM | cheaper then the mac it replaced |
| 05:44.37 | alpha1-2 | sounds good |
| 05:45.38 | alpha1-2 | another topic :)... then you don't use dual boot? (Win/Lin) |
| 05:45.39 | JeffM | It can run 3 displays so that is nice, onboard, HMDI, Mini-DV |
| 05:47.01 | alpha1-2 | but that is a notebook, right? |
| 05:47.11 | JeffM | yeah |
| 05:47.41 | JeffM | when I work on my school project I can hook up 2 mre displays |
| 05:47.54 | JeffM | I really need to redo my desktop, it has issues |
| 05:48.07 | JeffM | it's an old i5 |
| 05:48.19 | alpha1-2 | yes, dektops are the best |
| 05:48.28 | alpha1-2 | and more comfortable also |
| 05:48.59 | alpha1-2 | apart, I don't imagine when I have to fix the notebook, some afraid. I always have work on desktops ones |
| 05:49.08 | alpha1-2 | worked* |
| 05:49.16 | JeffM | well I can hook up the displas and the desktop keyboard, so it can so far replace the desktop |
| 05:49.20 | JeffM | it's just a little shower |
| 05:49.23 | JeffM | and has less ram |
| 05:50.00 | JeffM | and write horrible code in Visual Basic :) |
| 05:50.37 | alpha1-2 | hehe |
| 05:50.48 | alpha1-2 | and about Linuxes? :) do you use them sometimes also? |
| 05:50.55 | JeffM | it is SUCH a terrible language |
| 05:51.06 | JeffM | the laptop has a VM with mint on it |
| 05:51.15 | alpha1-2 | oh nice |
| 05:51.47 | alpha1-2 | which VM soft do you use? |
| 05:52.11 | JeffM | VMware or VirtualBox |
| 05:52.16 | JeffM | I think I'm on VMware now |
| 05:52.51 | alpha1-2 | well, mate, I let you rest, it was a nice talk, thanks :) |
| 05:53.19 | JeffM | the pain meds haen't fully kicked in yet |
| 05:53.23 | alpha1-2 | do I make too many questions maybe? |
| 05:53.27 | JeffM | and RotJ is on |
| 05:53.29 | JeffM | naw |
| 05:53.58 | alpha1-2 | how is your health going? |
| 05:53.58 | allejo | Rot13? |
| 05:54.25 | JeffM | the outside is sealed up, but I have stiches inside that every so often hurt |
| 05:54.37 | JeffM | I rolled over today and it got sore |
| 05:54.45 | JeffM | I usualy don't have to take pain meds anymore |
| 05:54.59 | JeffM | allejo, nope, RotJ |
| 05:55.12 | JeffM | It's a Trap! |
| 05:55.29 | Flash | I own all DVDs |
| 05:55.48 | JeffM | I'm pondering getting the bluray |
| 05:56.39 | alpha1-2 | Star Wars you mean? |
| 05:57.03 | Flash | well, yes, but I was using hyperbole |
| 05:57.13 | alpha1-2 | there are a lot of fanatics I think eh! :) |
| 05:57.42 | alpha1-2 | here the mode is not too [strong], but I think it is a nice serie |
| 05:58.22 | alpha1-2 | but you can work nomally right? |
| 05:58.56 | JeffM | yeah I go to work just fine |
| 05:59.21 | alpha1-2 | okay, well, glad |
| 05:59.33 | JeffM | sitting at school sometimes hurts, the chairs suck |
| 05:59.39 | JeffM | but I only have to do that 9 more times |
| 05:59.55 | alpha1-2 | ah yes the school also |
| 06:00.02 | Flash | here's something else, besides RotJ for you ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d40IDc3rQfU |
| 06:00.51 | alpha1-2 | (reported :P) |
| 06:00.54 | alpha1-2 | hehe |
| 06:01.52 | alpha1-2 | wow 2014 |
| 06:02.01 | alpha1-2 | didn't know |
| 06:02.37 | JeffM | it's a Fan made movie |
| 06:02.48 | alpha1-2 | ohh :P |
| 06:03.21 | alpha1-2 | ("official", I see) |
| 06:04.14 | alpha1-2 | see, we here don't make those things :) (we are not too fanatics) |
| 06:04.24 | JeffM | Episode 7 comes you next year |
| 06:04.50 | alpha1-2 | we can be fanatic with other things like Maradona or Messi hehe |
| 06:05.54 | allejo | hopes Episode 7 isn't a disaster |
| 06:05.55 | JeffM | the futballs |
| 06:06.03 | alpha1-2 | yes :) |
| 06:06.18 | alpha1-2 | did you see the final of the Cup? |
| 06:06.26 | alpha1-2 | was close |
| 06:06.33 | alpha1-2 | !* |
| 06:06.37 | JeffM | Ep7 will be better then Ep1 I think, it'll be different then 4-6, but I think JJ will do fine |
| 06:06.43 | alpha1-2 | much suffering |
| 06:08.37 | JeffM | the fact that they are doing practical effects for some of it will help it feel beter |
| 06:09.57 | JeffM | oooo, Oculus Open-Sourced the DK1 driver, good for them |
| 06:10.19 | alpha1-2 | nice |
| 06:10.21 | allejo | Ep1 was bad. Ep2 had horrible acting, Ep3 was eh |
| 06:10.43 | JeffM | yeah Hayden Cristensen could not act his way out of a paper bag |
| 06:11.04 | JeffM | the other actors with expeience did better, but it came down to a director who didn't care |
| 06:11.17 | allejo | mhmm |
| 06:11.22 | JeffM | I liked the cones in Ep2-3 |
| 06:11.25 | JeffM | clones |
| 06:11.53 | allejo | they were pretty cool |
| 06:12.13 | JeffM | JJ is a real director, not a guy who got enamored with effects and forgot how to direct |
| 06:13.04 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 06:13.10 | JeffM | EP 5 and 6, not direted by Lucas |
| 06:14.15 | JeffM | I am looking forward to StarWars Rebels |
| 06:14.32 | JeffM | The Clone Wars show was quite good, and it's done by the same people |
| 06:14.32 | allejo | needs to finish Star Wars: Clone Wars D: |
| 06:14.47 | JeffM | so do I, it's all on netflix |
| 06:14.56 | allejo | yea, they did a good job about filling a lot of holes |
| 06:15.02 | allejo | yea that's where i'm watching it |
| 06:15.32 | JeffM | yeah it' sucks that George made a set of movies that had holes that needed to be filled in by a TV show, but they did a really good ob |
| 06:15.33 | JeffM | job |
| 06:15.52 | alpha1-2 | are you watching it right now allejo? or just started it after this talk? :) |
| 06:16.00 | JeffM | Ep3 opens.. "and who is the whezing robot dude?" |
| 06:16.25 | allejo | so accurate lol |
| 06:16.59 | JeffM | "and I care about all of these CG Muppets why?" |
| 06:17.02 | allejo | alpha1-2, I started watching the Clone Wars over the summer on my down time between lectures but didn't have enough time to finish the series |
| 06:17.15 | alpha1-2 | ah okay |
| 06:17.35 | JeffM | the only 2 good things to come out of Ep3, was "Leah grew up Mexican", and "R2 is an asshole, he knew everthing" |
| 06:17.43 | alpha1-2 | is that a TV serie, a fun serie? |
| 06:18.05 | JeffM | alpha1-2, Clone Wars is a CG animated TV series, it is quite good |
| 06:18.20 | JeffM | it did a lot to bring back the fun of the first movies |
| 06:18.44 | JeffM | they are making a new series now that hapens before Episode 4, the first star wars film |
| 06:18.45 | allejo | lol "leah grew up mexican" |
| 06:18.53 | JeffM | look at her dad, |
| 06:18.56 | JeffM | it makes sense |
| 06:19.13 | JeffM | she don't give a crap, she'll push the guys out of the way an take charge :) |
| 06:20.05 | JeffM | Will someone get this walking carpet out of my way? |
| 06:21.01 | allejo | lol |
| 06:22.46 | JeffM | The new TV series has a soundrel/smuggler too, so it shold be fun |
| 06:25.42 | alpha1-2 | I see that there is an Spanish version of that serie allejo also. In USA always all the shows are bilingual (cause of the latin people)? |
| 06:26.05 | JeffM | not all of them |
| 06:26.13 | JeffM | many have a simulcast |
| 06:26.22 | alpha1-2 | ah okay |
| 06:26.23 | JeffM | but some are just english and french |
| 06:26.44 | JeffM | spanish not uncommon |
| 06:27.03 | alpha1-2 | interesting |
| 06:27.12 | JeffM | at least around here |
| 06:27.27 | allejo | wahh??? yes i have high hopes for Rebels :o |
| 06:27.30 | alpha1-2 | yes, multicasting is a good solution |
| 06:27.36 | allejo | and what jeff said |
| 06:27.42 | allejo | @alpha1-2 |
| 06:27.51 | JeffM | fewer people these days watch broadcast |
| 06:28.05 | JeffM | netflix, amazon, hulu |
| 06:28.14 | alpha1-2 | ah you refer that? |
| 06:28.20 | JeffM | I don't actualy receive any broadcast TV |
| 06:28.26 | JeffM | I just stream it all |
| 06:28.41 | JeffM | Hulu usualy has the curent stuff I want to see a day after it airs |
| 06:28.45 | alpha1-2 | I thought like DirectTV with the "changing of language" feature |
| 06:28.47 | JeffM | or I buy it on amazon |
| 06:28.56 | JeffM | like the Dr.Who, I buy those |
| 06:29.16 | alpha1-2 | satellital TV? |
| 06:29.17 | JeffM | Satalte and CAble have multlple languages |
| 06:29.28 | alpha1-2 | (or cable TV) |
| 06:29.29 | JeffM | I don't have cable TV or satalite |
| 06:29.43 | JeffM | just the internets :) |
| 06:29.50 | JeffM | it's much cheaper |
| 06:30.23 | JeffM | 8$ a month for netflix, 8 for Hulu Plus, and I get AMazon Prime for 40$ a year as a student |
| 06:30.47 | alpha1-2 | oh I think that then in broadcasting, there must be Spanish channels and English channels directly more common (like CNN) |
| 06:31.08 | JeffM | I know we get Univision here |
| 06:31.16 | JeffM | and some others |
| 06:31.22 | alpha1-2 | okay |
| 06:31.29 | JeffM | the Univision building is down where my grandfather used to live |
| 06:31.35 | allejo | JeffM, is netflix not up to date with Dr. Who? or does Amazon have Dr. Who as their air? |
| 06:31.37 | JeffM | we'd pass it when we'd go see him |
| 06:31.51 | JeffM | allejo, the streaming services are a season behind |
| 06:32.00 | allejo | ahhh |
| 06:32.07 | JeffM | Amazon sells them the day after they air |
| 06:32.22 | JeffM | for beween 3 and 4$ |
| 06:32.30 | allejo | ohh that'll come in handy once I actually catch up |
| 06:32.34 | allejo | rent or sell? |
| 06:32.36 | JeffM | sell |
| 06:32.40 | allejo | neat |
| 06:32.42 | JeffM | they don't rent shows |
| 06:32.47 | JeffM | they only rent movies |
| 06:33.15 | alpha1-2 | just the last comment, I remember a player that told about he was watching the World Cup either in ESPN and in Univision and that he noted a big difference in the style of the comentators (ones were much more limited (in emotions) than the others, like in "goooooooooooolllllllll!!!!" :D) |
| 06:33.17 | JeffM | yeah there are only a few shows I buy like that so I don't mind droping a couple bucks an eppisode |
| 06:33.39 | JeffM | the Univision Commentators are supposed to be much better then ESPN |
| 06:33.48 | JeffM | more on par with south american and european |
| 06:34.07 | JeffM | ESPN is like "why they no pick up funny collored football?!?!?" |
| 06:34.12 | allejo | ESPN commentators are dull and boring |
| 06:34.19 | alpha1-2 | hehe |
| 06:35.08 | alpha1-2 | well, I mean specially in football (soccer), don't know much about the other sports there |
| 06:35.29 | alpha1-2 | and their commentators |
| 06:36.13 | alpha1-2 | well, was a good time, goodnight :) |
| 06:36.56 | allejo | g'night |
| 06:37.09 | alpha1-2 | and allejo, treat well your "secretary" ;) he..she is a nice *girl* |
| 06:37.21 | allejo | lol |
| 06:37.21 | alpha1-2 | take patience |
| 06:37.45 | Flash | have patience |
| 06:38.15 | JeffM | why does a secretar have to be a girl, that is rather sexist |
| 06:38.24 | JeffM | is a man not good enough to do the job? |
| 06:42.10 | allejo | wonders how big of a gap there is with gender roles in south america |
| 06:42.26 | allejo | that may be the reason behind his thinking |
| 06:42.43 | JeffM | it can be larger |
| 06:43.20 | JeffM | yeah I didn't get the feling he felt his comments were offensive, because secretaries are always ladies, OBVIOUSLY |
| 06:44.38 | allejo | yeah, i doubt he meant it to be offensive |
| 06:45.48 | JeffM | well he meant it to be a jokingly derogitory remark, insinuating that a man would be a secretary, a job that he places for a lady |
| 06:46.01 | JeffM | so the joke would be that the man would have to dress like a lady for that roles |
| 06:46.30 | JeffM | when he dosn't realize that he's just feeding a stereotype that secretaries are just there to be pretty and giggle |
| 06:47.44 | allejo | hmm good point, didn't think about that |
| 06:47.59 | JeffM | few men do :) |
| 06:48.20 | JeffM | specialy in CS and other sciences |
| 06:49.22 | JeffM | it's one of the unfortonate reasons there is like 1 lady for every 10 dudes in my CS classes |
| 06:49.40 | JeffM | but it's reversed in the GE and Bussness classes |
| 06:50.28 | ruskie | monday morning philosophy.... gah... think I'll go back to sleeping |
| 06:51.23 | JeffM | I did have to take 2 philosophy classes |
| 06:51.29 | JeffM | lot of ladies in those too |
| 06:52.25 | JeffM | more ladies actualy go to the school then dudes |
| 06:58.09 | allejo | 1:10 is actually pretty accurate for my comp sci classes |
| 06:59.04 | JeffM | it is unfortonate |
| 07:00.28 | JeffM | in a few of my non CS classes there were only 3 students, I was the only guy |
| 07:02.50 | allejo | only 3 students? |
| 07:02.57 | JeffM | yup |
| 07:03.53 | JeffM | that's only happened a few times |
| 07:04.12 | JeffM | CS classes seem to average around 8 students, others 10 to 15 |
| 07:04.22 | allejo | lucky |
| 07:04.26 | JeffM | biggest one was the Bis Communication class, 25 |
| 07:04.38 | allejo | all my classes have been 25+ |
| 07:04.44 | JeffM | it's not abig school, and our program shoots for 15 people per class max |
| 07:04.52 | ruskie | that sounds like a nice place to be |
| 07:04.56 | allejo | ^ |
| 07:05.10 | JeffM | it can be, it does lack some variety in classes |
| 07:05.11 | ruskie | around here it's like 50+ |
| 07:05.16 | JeffM | and it ain't cheap |
| 07:05.23 | ruskie | though it is free for all |
| 07:05.43 | JeffM | yeah, this is about 2 grand per class |
| 07:05.45 | ruskie | but frankly I gave up on the whole memorization and regurtitation of our system more or less 10 years ago |
| 07:06.00 | ruskie | rather got a sysadmin job and been happy ever since |
| 07:06.34 | JeffM | it's good to have the degree if you can make it thru a program |
| 07:06.42 | JeffM | but yeah it's not reqired for every job |
| 07:07.09 | JeffM | it just helps when looking, gets you thru some HR people that filter on those kinds of things |
| 07:07.26 | ruskie | yeah that can help and I can see it helping |
| 07:07.44 | JeffM | also in the program I'm in, you have to be at least 25 years old |
| 07:07.58 | JeffM | so that kinda gets rid of the kids who don't want to be there |
| 07:08.01 | ruskie | but as I don't plan on working in companies with any semblance of a HR department not a big issue |
| 07:08.09 | JeffM | and it lets the instrctors go faster |
| 07:08.27 | JeffM | the terms are 11 weeks instead of 15 |
| 07:08.41 | ruskie | frankly I miss a more sys admin focused program here |
| 07:09.01 | JeffM | we have both CS and CIS degrees |
| 07:09.07 | JeffM | a number of the classes are shared |
| 07:09.15 | JeffM | like we both have to take databases and networking |
| 07:09.32 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:09.41 | ruskie | all we have is programming higher level(C and above), programming lower level(assembler, other hardware stuff), and informatics(which is basically focused no databases and management more than anything) |
| 07:10.00 | JeffM | oh that kinda sucks |
| 07:10.05 | ruskie | for a sysadmin it's basically pick one of the 3 and live with it |
| 07:10.21 | ruskie | I took the 4th option and took all the skills I acquired and just got myself a job |
| 07:10.34 | JeffM | the CIS degree makes you take systems analasis, software engineering, and some bis related classes |
| 07:10.52 | ruskie | and the first year is basically the same for all 3 |
| 07:11.01 | JeffM | ahh, not here |
| 07:11.15 | ruskie | 2 terms of coding(C/Java) and 2 terms of asm on some motorola gear |
| 07:11.32 | ruskie | with some maths, logic, english and basic computer skills thrown in |
| 07:11.41 | JeffM | a number of CIS people took the advanced progrmaing clsss I had to take as an elective |
| 07:12.06 | JeffM | some of them also took the game programing class |
| 07:12.26 | ruskie | that's part of the higher level programming program here |
| 07:12.37 | ruskie | we don't have a pick'n'choose system really |
| 07:12.53 | JeffM | that sucks |
| 07:13.05 | JeffM | here you have to take 2 units in electives that you pick |
| 07:13.09 | ruskie | I'm hoping that one day there will be something that is more oriented and focused of sys admin stuff... like theory on DNS, SMTP, etc... etc... etc... with then practical stuff like setting up various systems and so on |
| 07:13.17 | JeffM | so you can do web stuff, programing stuf, multi-media, etc... |
| 07:13.33 | JeffM | oh yeah that's what my networking class was |
| 07:13.45 | JeffM | we didn't learn how to run any speific system |
| 07:13.50 | ruskie | yeah |
| 07:13.52 | JeffM | it was all theory on networing |
| 07:14.15 | ruskie | I'd go with theory and then go to lab on soteup stuff on diff environments with diff requirements etc... |
| 07:14.17 | JeffM | my OS class did make us learn linux shell comands and shell scripting as well as the parts of an OS |
| 07:14.31 | ruskie | I don't think our professors could handle a pick'n'choose system frankly |
| 07:14.39 | JeffM | heh |
| 07:14.48 | ruskie | they have enough issues with dealing when you try to point out that what they are reguritating is not reality |
| 07:15.07 | JeffM | some teachers are not good |
| 07:15.22 | ruskie | had an argument with a prof on the oral part of the exam about why java is not as cross platform as he wants to believe |
| 07:15.23 | JeffM | but it depends on how well the school pays them |
| 07:15.34 | ruskie | around here it's more like... some are great... the rest are bad |
| 07:15.49 | JeffM | it's pretty cross platform, except on the iPhone :) |
| 07:16.01 | ruskie | it's cross platform if there is a JVM on the platform |
| 07:16.07 | JeffM | I mean it ain't no C# or anything |
| 07:16.12 | JeffM | yeah, it's a VM language |
| 07:16.15 | ruskie | I'd say C is more cross platform than java |
| 07:16.28 | ruskie | even with all the shit it has to deal with |
| 07:16.30 | JeffM | not in the way that they use cross platform |
| 07:16.35 | JeffM | they are talking about he bins it makes |
| 07:16.39 | ruskie | hehe |
| 07:16.45 | JeffM | C is only cross platform if you have a compiler |
| 07:16.52 | ruskie | yeah I guess that is valid argument |
| 07:17.05 | JeffM | so no mater what you have to have a THING for the platform |
| 07:17.18 | JeffM | with VM languages you can use the same bin |
| 07:17.23 | ruskie | guess I'm just to demanding and require to precise explanation to accept things |
| 07:17.30 | JeffM | for machine code langauges you have to recompile |
| 07:17.47 | JeffM | no mater what you need some kind of "runtime" lib on the platform |
| 07:17.52 | JeffM | even for interpreted langs |
| 07:18.17 | ruskie | yeah |
| 07:18.27 | JeffM | Java also gives you a GUI kit that works in the VM, C does not |
| 07:18.47 | JeffM | so you can use more of a platform that has a GUI in the language itself, not using some third party lib |
| 07:18.52 | JeffM | tho that JAVA gui does suck |
| 07:19.17 | ruskie | hehe |
| 07:19.27 | JeffM | the idea behind java is no bad, java is just a bad implementaion of that idea because it was one of the first |
| 07:19.41 | ruskie | true |
| 07:19.44 | JeffM | having an abstracted instrucion set has a lot of advantages |
| 07:19.52 | JeffM | specialy in the security area, if you do it right |
| 07:20.07 | JeffM | they did not do it right |
| 07:22.50 | JeffM | still, it's better then Visual Basic :) |
| 07:22.54 | ruskie | hehehehe |
| 07:23.11 | JeffM | even tho the exe built from VB is techincaly cross platform |
| 07:23.29 | ruskie | hmm think I probably had some 5 great profs in the... 15 years of messing with education |
| 07:24.22 | ruskie | had a great teacher that thought us programming... without actually using a programming language but pseudo code |
| 07:24.39 | JeffM | yeah lauage should not mater |
| 07:24.51 | JeffM | the VB guy does stress that |
| 07:24.53 | ruskie | we did do lab stuff with pascal true but the psedou code stuff was the best bit I got from that |
| 07:24.58 | JeffM | he just knows VB |
| 07:25.02 | JeffM | the book is in C++ |
| 07:25.37 | ruskie | the little lab work we did for linux/shell I and antoher student were actually presenting |
| 07:27.13 | JeffM | well only9 more weeks then I'm done :) |
| 07:27.16 | ruskie | hehe |
| 07:27.36 | JeffM | well 9 class sessions and a spaceship game |
| 07:27.51 | ruskie | and I take it the spaceship game is nearly complete? |
| 07:28.07 | JeffM | nope |
| 07:28.23 | ruskie | heh |
| 07:28.27 | JeffM | the design is one, the authetnication system is done |
| 07:28.34 | JeffM | the login screen is done |
| 07:29.05 | JeffM | I'll probaly have the rest of the startup GUI done this week, then it's on to spaceships and control consoles |
| 07:29.11 | ruskie | hehe |
| 07:29.13 | JeffM | it'll be done enough in 9 weeks |
| 07:29.25 | ruskie | sounds like you're having fun |
| 07:29.35 | JeffM | it's alot of work |
| 07:29.43 | JeffM | but it's at least an interesting project |
| 07:29.44 | ruskie | I have no doubt |
| 07:29.55 | JeffM | and that one is not in VB |
| 07:30.40 | ruskie | I just don't find fun in coding myself... but have a couple of friends that can basically wake up... start coding and at the end of the day go to sleep... they just enjoy it |
| 07:31.06 | ruskie | and can see it when they are explaining stuff as well |
| 07:31.35 | JeffM | sysadining is booring :) |
| 07:31.41 | JeffM | same for webwork |
| 07:31.53 | ruskie | hehe |
| 07:32.18 | ruskie | I enjoy sysadmining... I love having systems that work without me needing to mess with them after the initial setup |
| 07:32.25 | JeffM | hardes part for me so far has been the silly website to register an account :) |
| 07:32.28 | ruskie | but I also enjoy the challanges of troubleshooting |
| 07:32.58 | ruskie | I also help out the dev team here with debugging... trying to figure out what's wrong, what's going on etc... |
| 07:33.43 | ruskie | if nothing else I can at times point them in the right direction |
| 07:39.00 | ruskie | but yeah most of my day tends to be spent on watching youtube stuff/twitch/reading forums/self learning/or planning for stuff... depending on what else I have to do |
| 07:39.46 | ruskie | since I'm basically the only sysadmin around here I need to do everything from planning for new purchases to geting systems to the point where I can forget about them for 2 weeks and someone else can just reboot a system if need be |
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