IRC log for #bzflag on 20141005

`00:10.00`	`alpha1-2`	`the plugin API is already BSD right?`
`00:11.31`	`alpha1-2`	`or scheme? sorry I don't und. well, it is for answering in a thread`
`00:12.01`	`alpha1-2`	`(AFK for a while)`
`00:45.26`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM_ (~JeffM@2605:e000:7d02:c700:8dee:fa54:7d59:2a79)`
`01:40.51`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM (~JeffM@2605:e000:7d02:c700:d031:b20f:ecf7:1ca4)`
`01:49.01`	`alpha1-2`	`JeffM: what has to do the template plug-in (converted to BSD few time ago) with an/the API plug-in? I am trying to understand what Pac-man was refering to in this post about "I couldn't use my own API" (second item): http://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=18889#p169359`
`01:50.34`	`JeffM`	`alpha1-2, they are unrelated. He didn't want to make 2 plugins talk to each other`
`01:50.49`	`JeffM`	`and that talk would not be via the bzfs api, but his own`
`01:51.05`	`JeffM`	`but he dosn't need to do that anyway`
`01:52.37`	`alpha1-2`	`then the bzfs API does some communications between plug-ins?`
`01:53.06`	`JeffM`	`it can using the callback system`
`01:53.26`	`alpha1-2`	`(or allows)`
`01:54.03`	`alpha1-2`	`kind of concurrency?`
`01:54.19`	`JeffM`	`nope, one thread`
`01:55.27`	`alpha1-2`	`I mean, can different plug-ins communicate each other? for example: "I am using the server weapons, wait until I end it"?`
`01:56.33`	`JeffM`	`there would be no reason to do that, but it's all what ever you decide the callback means`
`01:57.08`	`JeffM`	`you could setup callbacks to do that if you wanted`
`01:57.16`	`JeffM`	`it'd be stupid to do that, but you could if you wanted`
`01:57.26`	`alpha1-2`	`several plug-ins can use "server weapons" at once, then?`
`01:57.33`	`JeffM`	`it's not "at once"`
`01:57.38`	`JeffM`	`that's not the problem`
`01:57.53`	`JeffM`	`the problem is they manyualy set the shot ID to try and encode a playerID in it`
`01:58.27`	`alpha1-2`	`ah, to assign score, yes`
`01:58.31`	`alpha1-2`	`scores*`
`01:58.33`	`JeffM`	`there are better ways to do it that don't involve the plugins trying to set there own shot IDs`
`01:58.37`	`JeffM`	`yeah they just need a map`
`01:58.46`	`JeffM`	`there is a function where the server will allocate a shot ID`
`01:58.54`	`JeffM`	`so the plugins won't overlap`
`01:59.07`	`JeffM`	`then each plugin just needs to keep score data with the shot ID as a key`
`01:59.13`	`JeffM`	`no encoding`
`02:01.18`	`alpha1-2`	`well, thanks for clarifying more, but returning to what Pac-man said, why would he need to write his own API, then?`
`02:01.36`	`JeffM`	`he didn't understand how to use a map`
`02:02.33`	`alpha1-2`	`oh, the map again... then the map can say who assign the shot to?`
`02:02.48`	`JeffM`	`no, that's backwards`
`02:03.09`	`JeffM`	`you store the shot ID as the key`
`02:03.18`	`JeffM`	`and the player data for who owns it as the value`
`02:03.34`	`alpha1-2`	`ah the "map" as a table you mean`
`02:03.41`	`JeffM`	`then when you see the message that a shot killed a player, you look up the shot in your map and know who the shooter was supposed to be`
`02:03.42`	`JeffM`	`yeah`
`02:03.45`	`JeffM`	`std::map`
`02:04.28`	`alpha1-2`	`ah okay... I hare more clarify now`
`02:04.58`	`alpha1-2`	`clarity*`
`02:05.17`	`alpha1-2`	`thanks`
`02:07.48`	`alpha1-2`	`have*`
`02:07.49`	`JeffM`	`yeha he's just confused, the inter-plugin communication was added lomg ago. I added shot ID stuff when he he last talked about it.`
`02:09.16`	`alpha1-2`	`you mean you added it just before (I saw your recent answer) or time ago?`
`02:09.59`	`JeffM`	`this was several months ago`
`02:10.19`	`alpha1-2`	`(about "shot ID stuff")`
`02:10.43`	`alpha1-2`	`okay`
`02:13.07`	`alpha1-2`	`JeffM, what is your prefered area to work into BZ? or you do it in general, where it is necessary? I know you work/ed in Window compilations/releases, but I am asking more about a developing area.`
`02:13.24`	`JeffM`	`anything`
`02:14.36`	`alpha1-2`	`okay, but if you could choose an area? 3D engine, networking, ...?`
`02:14.45`	`JeffM`	`anything`
`02:14.50`	`alpha1-2`	`hehe`
`02:15.23`	`*** join/#bzflag zlsa (~zlsa@static-205-157-147-198.ded.unwiredbb.net)`
`02:15.33`	`alpha1-2`	`blast007, others?`
`02:15.45`	`JeffM`	`simulation would be good too`
`02:16.00`	`alpha1-2`	`ah maths :)`
`02:16.17`	`alpha1-2`	`it is complex, I suppose`
`02:16.18`	`JeffM`	`not really`
`02:16.32`	`alpha1-2`	`maths + physics`
`02:16.36`	`JeffM`	`multiplication`
`02:17.49`	`alpha1-2`	`ah I can't imagine it... I still need theory`
`02:18.29`	`alpha1-2`	`we have that subject in 4th year`
`02:18.36`	`JeffM`	`positional interpolation is just adding and multipling`
`02:18.42`	`alpha1-2`	`if I am right`
`02:20.42`	`alpha1-2`	`as we were talking the last time, right? comparing simple BZW objects with Blender ones`
`02:21.40`	`alpha1-2`	`(more complex algorythms to do hits)`
`02:22.07`	`JeffM`	`intersections arn't too bad`
`02:22.15`	`alpha1-2`	`algorithms*`
`02:22.15`	`JeffM`	`sphere -> cube -> triangle`
`02:22.43`	`JeffM`	`sphere and cube are easy`
`02:23.26`	`JeffM`	`and you only have to write the code for triangles once`
`02:23.39`	`alpha1-2`	`can it be that spheres are a group of triangles?`
`02:23.53`	`JeffM`	`no`
`02:24.00`	`JeffM`	`every object has a bounding sphere`
`02:24.57`	`JeffM`	`get the distance between the center points, if that distance is greate then the sum of the radius of both spheres then there is no way the objects can intersect`
`02:25.10`	`alpha1-2`	`ah then I am confused with some complex shapes in some maps that I can see triangles (not perfect spheres I suppose)`
`02:25.47`	`alpha1-2`	`(or not simple spheres)`
`02:25.50`	`JeffM`	`the sphere test isn't just for testing spheres`
`02:25.59`	`JeffM`	`you test an objects bounding sphere first`
`02:26.07`	`JeffM`	`since it's fast`
`02:26.27`	`JeffM`	`you know the center of every object, and the distance to the furthest vertex`
`02:26.31`	`JeffM`	`that gives you a sphere`
`02:26.39`	`alpha1-2`	`yes`
`02:27.06`	`alpha1-2`	`but there are parts that are outside the real object`
`02:27.12`	`JeffM`	`so if those sphere's don't intersect then the triangles can't intrsect`
`02:27.33`	`JeffM`	`you make your sphere include all the parts of the object`
`02:27.39`	`alpha1-2`	`but there are parts of the sphere that are outside the real object`
`02:27.50`	`JeffM`	`that's fine`
`02:27.58`	`JeffM`	`it's not the only test you do`
`02:28.05`	`JeffM`	`it's just the first test`
`02:28.10`	`alpha1-2`	`ah, for testing purpose`
`02:28.12`	`JeffM`	`yeah`
`02:28.18`	`JeffM`	`it's the first pass`
`02:28.33`	`JeffM`	`if those sphere's don't collide, then nothing inside them can ether`
`02:28.37`	`JeffM`	`so you can stop testing.`
`02:28.50`	`JeffM`	`then you check a cube, it fits better`
`02:29.00`	`JeffM`	`then you test the object`
`02:30.00`	`alpha1-2`	`no, you said "then nothing inside them (the spheres) can ether", you have still to do other test to be sure`
`02:30.10`	`alpha1-2`	`tests*`
`02:30.16`	`JeffM`	`not if the sphre's don't intersect`
`02:30.26`	`alpha1-2`	`oh yes`
`02:30.29`	`JeffM`	`it's an easy out`
`02:30.39`	`alpha1-2`	`cause it is bigger, yes`
`02:30.42`	`JeffM`	`yeah`
`02:30.47`	`JeffM`	`that test is very fast`
`02:30.59`	`JeffM`	`you can do that test on every object, the only test the objects that fail that test`
`02:31.03`	`JeffM`	`now you have fewer things to test`
`02:31.27`	`JeffM`	`a cube test is slightly slower, so you want to do that on less objects`
`02:31.35`	`alpha1-2`	`wow, complex :)`
`02:31.51`	`JeffM`	`then final you do the triangle test on what's left`
`02:32.17`	`alpha1-2`	`fortunately we have fast CPUs lately (for long time)`
`02:32.25`	`alpha1-2`	`NOW*`
`02:32.27`	`alpha1-2`	`now*`
`02:32.44`	`JeffM`	`the triangle test is VERY slow`
`02:33.02`	`JeffM`	`you still don't want to do it on all objects`
`02:33.15`	`alpha1-2`	`and then, with complex shapes, you need all triangles in the structure right?`
`02:33.39`	`alpha1-2`	`for example meshes`
`02:33.39`	`JeffM`	`there are fancy ways to break it up if it gets too slow`
`02:33.53`	`JeffM`	`octees and bsp-trees`
`02:34.11`	`alpha1-2`	`no, not talking of tests now, but of the structure, what you see in-game`
`02:34.12`	`JeffM`	`backside culling helps too`
`02:34.51`	`JeffM`	`depends on what you want to do, but usualy you eventualy need to test all you draw`
`02:35.21`	`alpha1-2`	`you attended Simulation subjects already at school, right?`
`02:35.29`	`JeffM`	`no`
`02:36.03`	`alpha1-2`	`but you have it/them in the program?`
`02:36.19`	`JeffM`	`nope`
`02:37.19`	`alpha1-2`	`oh okay, you have learnt/are learning it on your own, then?`
`02:37.59`	`JeffM`	`most of it's just common sense`
`02:38.58`	`alpha1-2`	`okay. But then complex shapes like meshes are not made with a lot of triangles?`
`02:39.17`	`JeffM`	`they are made with lots of triangles`
`02:39.28`	`alpha1-2`	`ah I supposed`
`02:39.56`	`JeffM`	`thats why you only want to test them if they are near things, and only draw them if they are vissible`
`02:40.05`	`JeffM`	`collision and culling use similar maths`
`02:41.47`	`alpha1-2`	`well, very interesting, I didn't know much about 3D modelling`
`02:42.02`	`alpha1-2`	`(and simulation)`
`02:42.09`	`JeffM`	`it's just triangles`
`02:42.14`	`JeffM`	`and vectors`
`02:42.36`	`alpha1-2`	`wait, boxes and spheres use triangles also?`
`02:42.42`	`alpha1-2`	`then*`
`02:42.42`	`JeffM`	`yeah`
`02:42.55`	`alpha1-2`	`all triangles then!?`
`02:42.58`	`JeffM`	`that's all a video card can usualy draw`
`02:43.20`	`alpha1-2`	`ah okay...`
`02:43.55`	`alpha1-2`	`then what I saw in-game was kind of a sphere or an sphere made with triangles, yes...`
`02:44.04`	`JeffM`	`usualy`
`02:44.50`	`blast007`	`I make my spheres with SCIENCE!`
`02:45.30`	`alpha1-2`	`blast007: tell what is you area of interest into BZ`
`02:45.47`	`blast007`	`nothing`
`02:45.51`	`alpha1-2`	`haha`
`02:45.53`	`blast007`	`:p`
`02:46.12`	`alpha1-2`	`I like your spirit! (joke)`
`02:46.23`	`*** part/#bzflag Snake12534 (uid45641@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbhyeumwxsvbhijt)`
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`02:47.05`	`alpha1-2`	`I know, all you want is an increasing of your salary ;)`
`02:47.21`	`alpha1-2`	`then you will be happier`
`02:48.16`	`alpha1-2`	`if you would have to choose an area? or general development? (BRB)`
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`02:49.30`	`JeffM`	`blast007 is our Chief Taco Officer`
`02:53.01`	`alpha1-2`	`well, then, I can be the Chief Argentinian Food Officer ;)`
`02:55.48`	`JeffM`	`We don't need a CFO`
`02:58.19`	`alpha1-2`	`hey Arg. food are good too!`
`03:00.44`	`alpha1-2`	`is*`
`03:01.47`	`alpha1-2`	`or better, let's hire a BZ secretary (women OFC :D) that knows diff. cooking styles too!`
`03:01.56`	`alpha1-2`	`woman*`
`03:02.01`	`JeffM`	`wow... really?`
`03:02.18`	`JeffM`	`you are that sexist?`
`03:02.27`	`alpha1-2`	`yes, complete :D`
`03:02.33`	`JeffM`	`that is sad`
`03:02.36`	`JeffM`	`I weep for you`
`03:02.45`	`alpha1-2`	`a complete secretary, I mean`
`03:02.53`	`JeffM`	`why can't it be a man?`
`03:03.40`	`alpha1-2`	`oh I read the comments the other day. Maybe in South America is bigger the difference between sexs, yes.`
`03:04.06`	`JeffM`	`sooo just because you live more south you get to be sexist?`
`03:04.18`	`alpha1-2`	`that is why I was more explicit this time :)`
`03:04.29`	`JeffM`	`that is so very wrong`
`03:04.39`	`JeffM`	`and people wonder why there are not more ladies in progrmaing`
`03:05.49`	`alpha1-2`	`oh, there are not more ladies cause they don't like too techy things as guys do. The same as mechanics, for example. Now go to beauty sciences and you will get a lo of girls.`
`03:06.16`	`JeffM`	`WTF?`
`03:06.20`	`JeffM`	`are you serious?`
`03:06.53`	`alpha1-2`	`or Psychology, I think there there are a lot of girls too. All depends on the topic. Ladies and guys like diff. things in general.`
`03:07.01`	`JeffM`	`wow`
`03:07.05`	`JeffM`	`you are very sad`
`03:07.08`	`JeffM`	`very very sad`
`03:07.24`	`alpha1-2`	`or you think that man/woman are really identical?`
`03:08.02`	`JeffM`	`the majority of what you talk about is socital, you make it sound like it's genetic.`
`03:08.09`	`alpha1-2`	`you think there are not marked differences?`
`03:08.16`	`JeffM`	`not in what they can do`
`03:08.19`	`JeffM`	`or should do`
`03:09.02`	`JeffM`	`it's comments like yours that keep people out of fields they would like to explore because it "does not fit"`
`03:09.03`	`alpha1-2`	`("marked" or "big" I mean)`
`03:11.10`	`JeffM`	`I know what you mean, and the fact that you ask that sadens me`
`03:11.14`	`alpha1-2`	`I am not forbidding ppl to do any thing, mate, I am just talking of what ppl like. I am open to what ppl like, just they don't like certain things, as I can observe and you surely too`
`03:11.29`	`JeffM`	`how do you know what people like? are you psycic?`
`03:12.33`	`alpha1-2`	`"as I can observe and you surely too"`
`03:12.43`	`JeffM`	`that just says what they do, not why they do it`
`03:12.52`	`JeffM`	`how do you know they don't do what they do because of the things you say?`
`03:13.04`	`alpha1-2`	`and they do it cause they like it, supposedly`
`03:13.06`	`JeffM`	`corlation is not causality`
`03:13.53`	`JeffM`	`but still, that type of talk is not welcome in this channel, bzflag does not pander to mysogony or sexism, it's discusting.`
`03:14.43`	`blast007`	`good way to get banned`
`03:15.08`	`alpha1-2`	`but inthe other hand, I believe that in general man/woman have diff. areas of interest or where they can work better, for example, women are prepared for the house mostly, man for the street (work), women for the feelings mostly, men for do things, in general`
`03:15.09`	`JeffM`	`infobot, alpha1-2 --`
`03:15.24`	`JeffM`	`alpha1-2, stop, seriously`
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`03:15.50`	`alpha1-2`	`reading`
`03:15.55`	`JeffM`	`it's not cool`
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`09:29.28`	`kierra`	`Hmmm`
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