| 00:01.32 | *** join/#bzflag alpha1-3 (~alpha1@host99.201-252-188.telecom.net.ar) |
| 00:01.56 | alezakos | alpha1-3: it's definitely not "servers list". If you really want to indicate possession, you can say "servers' list" (i.e. the list belongs to the servers). "Server list" signifies pretty clearly that the list contains servers. But I'm pretty sure this is not a great topic for #bzflag :) |
| 00:02.01 | alezakos | take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun_adjunct |
| 00:03.24 | alpha1-3 | I was disconnected. What was my last message, please? |
| 00:03.53 | alpha1-3 | (I think new IP) |
| 00:09.04 | blast007 | you didn't miss anything |
| 00:11.29 | alpha1-3 | okay, thanks. What do you think, guys, then? (counting issue) |
| 00:14.51 | alpha1-3 | alezakos, I was tought that apostrophes were used only for possesive persons/organizations, not things. I will read that article, tho. |
| 00:22.30 | alpha1-3 | how did you know I didn't miss anything blast007? |
| 00:22.44 | blast007 | because you talked last before you rejoined |
| 00:24.15 | alpha1-3 | this one: "[20:21] <alpha1-2> and players are the most important category, yes"? |
| 00:24.26 | blast007 | "ah I supposed" |
| 00:24.34 | blast007 | never said we didn't miss anything - I just said you didn't miss anything ;) |
| 00:24.50 | alpha1-3 | aha!... :P |
| 00:24.55 | alpha1-3 | [20:18] <alpha1-2> About counting observers. If they are a separated (different) group of users, they should be counted as 1 too, tho in other category. You are not differentiating categories? And, related to this, bzadmins should be other category too. Then, you can count by groups and ordering list by them. |
| 00:24.55 | alpha1-3 | [20:18] <alpha1-2> Counting *real* observers is useful to know what server is populated. For example, I wasn't able to see a populated server just before, while another player was able. |
| 00:24.56 | alpha1-3 | [20:21] <alpha1-2> maybe ignoring bzadmins is good, yes (I have not thought on it still), but not real observers |
| 00:24.56 | alpha1-3 | [20:21] <alpha1-2> and players are the most important category, yes |
| 00:25.05 | blast007 | observers will not be counted for sorting |
| 00:25.13 | blast007 | it's not up for debate |
| 00:26.21 | alpha1-3 | why 1 and 2? |
| 00:26.23 | blast007 | what? |
| 00:26.24 | alpha1-3 | your sentences 1 and 2, why? |
| 00:26.25 | alpha1-3 | 2 questions |
| 00:26.26 | alpha1-3 | #1 and #2 |
| 00:26.31 | alezakos | It is not possible to differentiate between bzadmin clients and other clients. If you really want to see servers with observers, you can easily set up a filter to do so. |
| 00:26.34 | alpha1-3 | ah the new filters? |
| 00:26.34 | alezakos | yup |
| 00:26.35 | alpha1-3 | into the servers searching option? didn't know, okay, seems fair |
| 00:26.35 | alpha1-3 | *servers* ;) |
| 00:26.43 | blast007 | they also aren't "new" filters, they've existed for years. I've only tweaked a couple names and added an in-game editor for them. |
| 00:26.44 | blast007 | (and updated the default filters to be more useful) |
| 00:26.48 | alpha1-3 | I knew about filters, but didn't know you were able to differentiate between players and observers there. Is this new? |
| 00:26.54 | blast007 | no |
| 00:26.54 | alpha1-3 | ah okay, thanks and nice |
| 00:26.58 | alpha1-3 | nice!* |
| 00:26.58 | blast007 | I think 2.4.0 might have been the first *release* with filters, though they had been in 2.1.x/2.99.x dev versions previously? something like that |
| 00:26.58 | alpha1-3 | okay, maybe not documented enough then? |
| 00:26.58 | blast007 | 2.99.x has a completely different server list interface with the ability to sort by any of the columns |
| 00:27.01 | blast007 | oh definitely not documented well, like a lot of things |
| 00:27.07 | alpha1-3 | ok, ok, nice though, I had a look about the huge documentation you made on this latest release |
| 00:27.31 | alpha1-3 | last qestion: ah and some of the 2.99.x features are being brought here right? |
| 00:27.31 | alpha1-3 | question |
| 00:27.33 | alpha1-3 | copied, implemented |
| 00:27.44 | blast007 | that's what 2.4 was, yes. It was 2.0 with some features backported from 2.99.x and some new fixes and features |
| 00:27.49 | alpha1-3 | ah nice |
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| 00:28.54 | alpha1-3 | nice, for those who are interested, it is set as quick filter #2 by default (servers with players or observers) |
| 01:22.31 | alpha1-3 | blast007: if I write '/p>0/op>0/p=0,op=0' (to include also the empty servers), it doesn't order them according to that, it just shows all servers like if no filter was set |
| 01:23.08 | blast007 | well, that filter you wrote is supposed to show them all |
| 01:23.38 | alpha1-3 | yes, but the filter doesn't give priorities? |
| 01:23.39 | blast007 | it says if there is at least one player OR if there is at least one observer OR there are no players or observers |
| 01:23.43 | blast007 | no |
| 01:23.50 | blast007 | it's a filter, not a 'group by' operation |
| 01:24.14 | alpha1-3 | why if I write only the first 2 sets, it does? |
| 01:24.34 | alpha1-3 | first players, second, observers |
| 01:24.35 | blast007 | if you write only the first two filter sets, it will not show servers that have absolutely nobody on them |
| 01:25.03 | blast007 | you're not controlling the order of anything with your filters |
| 01:25.27 | alpha1-3 | it does give priority, because it shows first players, second observers |
| 01:25.46 | blast007 | think about that for a second |
| 01:25.54 | blast007 | that's how the list already works |
| 01:26.04 | blast007 | write the filter as /op>0/p>0 |
| 01:26.14 | blast007 | you'll get the exact same order as what you're seeing |
| 01:26.20 | alpha1-3 | ah just because there are always more players tha observers, then? |
| 01:26.54 | blast007 | no, because observers don't count for sorting, so servers with no players and only observers will always be after servers with even one real player |
| 01:27.08 | blast007 | and now I'm done with this conversation |
| 01:27.12 | blast007 | this is silly |
| 01:29.44 | alpha1-3 | well, it's not silly for me, just trying to get the same result as prev. versions. Do you think in player's point of view when you code something? |
| 01:30.35 | alpha1-3 | If I want to pick a empty server, now I have to clear the filter and search again an empty server. Double work |
| 01:31.22 | alpha1-3 | just trying to make a filter for that, maybe impossible? |
| 01:32.50 | alpha1-3 | then, as you say, empty servers are in the same level as observers' server, then it seems impossible |
| 01:33.54 | alpha1-3 | IMO, the real solution would be making a way to filter bzadmins; this was the main problem, which I undersand |
| 01:34.06 | alpha1-3 | understand |
| 01:34.40 | alpha1-3 | or which I support |
| 01:38.17 | alpha1-3 | and talking of the code, it is not a very fair (about same levels or searchs) filter, because it gives priority to players (p) against others categories. Not fighting, just talking objetively |
| 01:38.50 | alpha1-3 | if not, my filter should have worked |
| 01:39.44 | alpha1-3 | ordering in priority by amount of players (every kind) |
| 01:40.12 | blast007 | if I thought in the player's point of view, we'd have achievements for launching a game, firing ten bullets, and jumping backwards |
| 01:40.15 | blast007 | we'd have kill cams |
| 01:40.48 | blast007 | we'd have photorealistic volumetric grass and wireframe tanks and ramps and lots of other things |
| 01:41.41 | blast007 | dozens of overpowered flags that kill everyone one the map with no way to avoid them |
| 01:43.01 | alpha1-3 | aahh, just showing some dissapointment about this as a player, because it is really useful to know observers' servers by default. As I said, the best solution would be finding a way to filter bzadmins, the real problem |
| 01:44.08 | alpha1-3 | maybe for the future. The filters are good in general as a idea; maybe modifying some as I said too :) |
| 01:51.50 | blast007 | it's only part of the problem |
| 01:52.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o blast007] by ChanServ |
| 01:52.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+q alpha1*!*@*] by blast007 |
| 01:52.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+q *!*@*telecom.net.ar] by blast007 |
| 01:52.59 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o blast007] by blast007 |
| 02:17.13 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o blast007] by ChanServ |
| 02:17.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [-qtn alpha1*!*@*] by blast007 |
| 02:17.44 | blast007 | hmm, that wasn't what I wanted to do.. :P |
| 02:18.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+tn] by blast007 |
| 02:18.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [-q alpha1*!*@*] by blast007 |
| 02:18.45 | *** mode/#bzflag [-q *!*@*telecom.net.ar] by blast007 |
| 02:19.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o blast007] by blast007 |
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