| 00:29.45 | KaadmY | JeffM: late reply |
| 00:30.12 | KaadmY | but i looked back at the logs, and you *technically* didn't say i should use the render node |
| 00:30.37 | KaadmY | you mentioned using the drawing calls and the shadow scene nodes |
| 00:30.47 | KaadmY | but i'll try using the tank scene node now |
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| 01:10.01 | JeffM | wellllll a debugger would have shown you the code :) |
| 01:10.20 | JeffM | also remember I haven't been in the code for a long while |
| 01:18.47 | KaadmY | yea |
| 01:18.59 | KaadmY | and using the TankSceneNode also presents another problem |
| 01:19.07 | KaadmY | you need an actual scene to place it in |
| 01:19.14 | KaadmY | aaaaaand scenes only exist when actually playing |
| 01:34.44 | Void7 | *queue suspenseful music* |
| 01:35.10 | JeffM | there should also be a render node |
| 01:35.26 | JeffM | if I remember correctly |
| 01:36.11 | KaadmY | could try that |
| 01:36.47 | JeffM | scene == culling render == drawing |
| 01:36.49 | KaadmY | and what's IDL stand for? |
| 01:36.58 | KaadmY | it's used a lot in scene/rendering |
| 01:37.04 | Void7 | KaadmY: Inter-Dependent Loophole |
| 01:37.05 | KaadmY | but never mentions what it means |
| 01:37.08 | JeffM | Interdemensionl lights |
| 01:37.20 | KaadmY | meaning teleport rings? |
| 01:37.37 | KaadmY | thanks, never knew that :P |
| 01:37.41 | JeffM | the flare in the porter field when the tank breaches it |
| 01:37.53 | Void7 | I don't even WANT to know how that works :P |
| 01:38.23 | JeffM | takes the outline of the tank and proejcts it to a plane, then builds geometry from that |
| 01:38.26 | KaadmY | and the render node needs a scene node to tie into |
| 01:38.35 | JeffM | then call what the render node calls |
| 01:38.44 | JeffM | I know at some point it calls a "draw tank" |
| 01:38.47 | JeffM | function |
| 01:38.58 | JeffM | or at least one of the LOD functions |
| 01:39.05 | JeffM | step in with a debugger....... |
| 01:39.12 | JeffM | seriously, it's no longer funy |
| 01:40.08 | blast007 | KaadmY: again, install QT Creator. Gives you a shiny GUI to work with. |
| 01:40.39 | JeffM | or install windows and Visual Stuido and hit F5 |
| 01:41.08 | KaadmY | ah f**k it |
| 01:41.14 | KaadmY | the rendering's a mess, i give up |
| 01:41.41 | JeffM | sure, because that's how you learn things :) |
| 01:41.59 | KaadmY | by repeatedly told to install a debugger? :( |
| 01:42.52 | blast007 | well you didn't listen the first time |
| 01:43.56 | Void7 | by making the smileys line up perfectly? :( |
| 01:48.35 | JeffM | KaadmY: did you go to school to learn programing? |
| 01:54.16 | KaadmY | JeffM: no |
| 01:55.04 | JeffM | that makes sense then |
| 01:55.43 | KaadmY | and.. why would going to a programming school help? |
| 01:55.58 | JeffM | they may have exposed you to more tools |
| 01:56.03 | KaadmY | ie. windows :( |
| 01:56.04 | JeffM | I'm just curious |
| 01:56.09 | JeffM | not nessisarly |
| 01:56.11 | KaadmY | i have the tools |
| 01:56.22 | KaadmY | i just usually have no idea how to utilize them |
| 01:56.29 | JeffM | well you do not seem to be comforatable with them |
| 01:56.42 | JeffM | yeah, more exprience with them would help you there |
| 01:57.06 | JeffM | do you want to do programing for a living or is it just a hackish hobby? |
| 01:57.25 | KaadmY | "hackish hobby" |
| 01:57.32 | KaadmY | good way to explain it :) |
| 01:57.45 | KaadmY | i prefer making pixel art |
| 01:57.51 | JeffM | ahh |
| 01:57.55 | KaadmY | kinda calming for me :P |
| 01:58.08 | KaadmY | (ie. after trying to tinker with bzflag's code) |
| 01:58.21 | JeffM | bzflag's code is not an example of good programing |
| 01:58.36 | KaadmY | i *THINK* i can tell :D |
| 01:58.46 | JeffM | IMHO it has not been managed as well as it could have been :) |
| 01:58.56 | KaadmY | being written in 1994 doesn't help |
| 01:58.56 | JeffM | but that's a dead subject |
| 01:59.08 | KaadmY | imo bzflag should just be rewritten |
| 01:59.12 | KaadmY | i'm also not saying it's easy |
| 01:59.15 | JeffM | it was not open source at first |
| 01:59.27 | KaadmY | ikr |
| 01:59.42 | JeffM | is your keyboard broken? |
| 01:59.47 | KaadmY | well kinda |
| 01:59.55 | KaadmY | replaced most of the keys 2-3 times already |
| 02:02.01 | JeffM | there has been a lot of discussion on rewriting, many people have many opinions |
| 02:02.41 | KaadmY | ie. shaders, more fancy eyecandy effects |
| 02:02.54 | KaadmY | and i've been thinking, would a re-write need 3d movement? |
| 02:03.00 | KaadmY | ie. should there be jumping? |
| 02:03.01 | JeffM | a solid networking simulation ;) |
| 02:03.14 | KaadmY | jumping is nearly physically impossible anyway |
| 02:03.35 | KaadmY | and most of the players in bzflag play competitive, usually no jumping anyway |
| 02:03.40 | JeffM | backend structure is more important in my opinion than graphics |
| 02:03.46 | JeffM | yeah all 5 of them |
| 02:03.49 | KaadmY | (i was talking about gameplay) |
| 02:04.02 | KaadmY | 5 players? 'bout correct |
| 02:05.40 | JeffM | if there are 5 players on, that means there are not enough bzflag players to play the game I'm working on :( |
| 02:06.04 | KaadmY | another thing should be ranking out of the box |
| 02:06.20 | KaadmY | and some form of comp play, like leagues of some sort |
| 02:06.57 | JeffM | all that stuff is easy once you have a sold backend |
| 02:07.18 | KaadmY | sold? MONIES? |
| 02:07.20 | KaadmY | :P |
| 02:07.22 | JeffM | solid |
| 02:07.24 | JeffM | sorry |
| 02:07.53 | JeffM | you can get a solid backend by buying a backend :) |
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| 02:27.58 | blast007 | I do want to discuss next week about what we do next |
| 02:28.22 | blast007 | I think the 2.4 line is pretty much done now from a development perspective |
| 02:28.56 | blast007 | gonna at least try to merge the 2.4 branch into master this weekend |
| 02:30.17 | JeffM | what is your master now? |
| 02:31.31 | blast007 | 2.5 |
| 02:31.45 | JeffM | what is different in that? |
| 02:32.28 | blast007 | it has a partial half-assed server-generated dialog system in place, at least |
| 02:32.39 | JeffM | heh |
| 02:33.14 | blast007 | trying to replace the need for slash commands with proper GUIs and hotkeys |
| 02:33.30 | blast007 | you shouldn't have to know about slash commands to vote in a poll, for instance |
| 02:33.37 | JeffM | sure, that makes sense |
| 02:34.34 | blast007 | https://wiki.bzflag.org/DevelopmentPlans/2.6.0 that's at least a rough plan |
| 02:34.55 | blast007 | some of those things are pretty big projects on their own though, like SSPs that are good enough to move a tank around a map |
| 02:36.20 | JeffM | yeah, you have all the code, just need to shuffle it to the right place |
| 02:40.26 | JeffM | items 3.1, 3.2, 4.1, 6,1-6.3, 7.1,7.2,7.3,7.4 and 7.8 are all "finish shit JeffM started" :( |
| 02:48.03 | blast007 | :) |
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| 03:40.00 | JeffM | the shot ID one should be pretty easy |
| 04:11.42 | KaadmY | JeffM: i screenshotted that; no escape now :P |
| 04:22.19 | JeffM | KaadmY: I actualy did it once in a branch |
| 04:22.24 | JeffM | so I do know |
| 04:23.21 | JeffM | change the IDs over to where the server gives out the IDs. make local shots have negative values untill the shooting client gets a real ID for it |
| 04:23.23 | JeffM | easy peasy |
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| 15:35.25 | Void7 | hi |
| 15:35.33 | KaadmY | yo |
| 15:35.41 | KaadmY | http://linux.softpedia.com/get/GAMES-ENTERTAINMENT/Arcade/Virus-Killer-4580.shtml |
| 15:35.46 | KaadmY | (wrong channel) |
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| 17:36.17 | echelon | hey |
| 17:36.26 | echelon | wasn't there stats on players' wins/captures? |
| 17:49.31 | JeffM | echelon: you mean like this? http://bzstats.strayer.de/players/stats/?name=echelon&lang=en |
| 17:53.38 | echelon | JeffM: no, that doesn't have captures/wins |
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| 17:56.06 | JeffM | it's a third party site, it could proalby track whatever it wanted to |
| 17:57.18 | blast007 | tracking captures and wins would require having a bot connected to each game server, or for each game server to run a plugin that reported that to a central location |
| 17:58.05 | JeffM | yeah it'd be quite hard to clean from a "just connect and read" type system like strayer uses |
| 17:59.05 | blast007 | it's rather uninteresting data as well if it's not just tracking a specific set of servers |
| 18:01.00 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:01.11 | JeffM | or it'd be super inacurate with a lot of assumptions |
| 18:02.55 | blast007 | yep |
| 18:03.18 | blast007 | an HTF server has much different definition of "wins" cand "captures" than a normal CTF server does, for instance |
| 18:12.00 | echelon | well i remember a player stats site that used to do just that, i'm not sure how that data was collected |
| 18:12.19 | blast007 | was it for a single server? |
| 18:12.20 | echelon | was there ever a stats page on the official bzflag.org domain? |
| 18:12.42 | echelon | all the servers on the server list |
| 18:12.50 | blast007 | that was just basic player scores |
| 18:12.57 | echelon | hmm |
| 18:13.00 | blast007 | it didn't know about captures |
| 18:13.07 | blast007 | and it didn't retain history of those scores |
| 18:13.31 | blast007 | it just kept the highest and lowest score for a callsign (and the highest and lowest ratio) |
| 18:13.50 | echelon | right |
| 18:14.08 | blast007 | people would set up servers with 20 bots, instant respawn times, and huge shockwaves and kill bots for an hour |
| 18:14.26 | echelon | heh |
| 18:14.48 | echelon | couldn't the server just report fake stats instead of having actual matches? |
| 18:15.21 | echelon | or was it a pull method |
| 18:15.42 | blast007 | the stats site queried servers every X minutes |
| 18:15.49 | blast007 | but sure, that could have been done as well |
| 18:15.53 | echelon | kk |
| 18:15.59 | blast007 | it was a pointless site, in the end ;) |
| 18:16.16 | blast007 | strayer's site has all the useful aspects of that and more |
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| 18:17.15 | blast007 | (at one point, the old stats.bzflag.org didn't filter HTML from names or emails, so you could join as <script>alert('hello!')</script> or <h1>HI THERE</h1> and sit on a server long enough for it to query, and it would show up ;) |
| 18:17.23 | blast007 | ) |
| 18:26.37 | echelon | heh |
| 18:54.05 | the_map | I used a music streaming site for a while that had that same issue with playlist names |
| 18:54.39 | the_map | so I saved one playlist with an embedded video and some javascript in the title |
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| 20:39.47 | JeffM | blast007 was that site out of tacos? |
| 20:55.26 | blast007 | JeffM: there was one where I replaced the web index page with that using bzfs's -reportpipe :P |
| 20:55.36 | JeffM | nice |
| 20:55.39 | JeffM | classy |
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