| 00:00.39 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:00.58 | JeffM | oh god, what is your upstream? |
| 00:01.04 | JeffM | 1.5 megs? |
| 00:01.18 | blast007 | that might be high |
| 00:01.28 | JeffM | so filling your bandwith takes what? 3-4 players? |
| 00:01.37 | JeffM | was it an attack or just people trying to play? |
| 00:01.44 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:01.49 | alfa1 | and I have 100 as limit |
| 00:02.01 | alfa1 | all were with random names at some point |
| 00:02.05 | JeffM | how can you host 100 people? |
| 00:02.14 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:02.21 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:02.47 | JeffM | split them? |
| 00:03.12 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:03.25 | JeffM | how do you tell if they are bzadmin? |
| 00:03.32 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:03.48 | JeffM | what if a bzadmin sets a different motto? |
| 00:03.56 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:04.01 | blast007 | sure it can |
| 00:04.04 | blast007 | it's open-source |
| 00:04.11 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:04.24 | blast007 | what happens if a normal client sets their motto to bzadmin? |
| 00:04.28 | JeffM | so you look for bzadmin in the motto? |
| 00:04.43 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:04.50 | JeffM | what other method? |
| 00:04.54 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:05.19 | JeffM | like anywhere in the string or known good version strings? |
| 00:05.24 | JeffM | what happens if we change bzadmin? |
| 00:05.39 | alfa1 | why is this important? I suffered an attack! |
| 00:05.50 | JeffM | so you say |
| 00:06.02 | JeffM | maybe your server is just misconifgured |
| 00:06.10 | JeffM | did your plugin hickup? |
| 00:07.05 | alfa1 | what is the meaning of "hickup"? not in dictionary |
| 00:07.10 | JeffM | burp |
| 00:07.13 | JeffM | screweup |
| 00:07.17 | JeffM | have a mistake |
| 00:07.51 | alfa1 | I am sure it was an attack |
| 00:08.06 | JeffM | well you were just sure it was allejo, and now it's not |
| 00:08.20 | JeffM | so you are on shaky ground for things you are sure about |
| 00:08.40 | JeffM | you should read your logs and find out exactly what the attack did |
| 00:08.44 | alfa1 | even I got a message "Player [n] sent packet type (7069) via udp, possible attack from x.x.x.x" lots of times |
| 00:09.10 | JeffM | that could just be an early UDP if your server was slow |
| 00:09.51 | alfa1 | "now it's not"? for now it is my word vs his |
| 00:10.03 | JeffM | and who are we to belive you or him? |
| 00:10.09 | JeffM | he's a respected bzflag developer |
| 00:10.18 | JeffM | you are just some guy who gets into arguments a lot |
| 00:10.29 | alfa1 | what should I do to demostrate it then? |
| 00:10.47 | JeffM | well before you accuse someone, have SOME kind of proof |
| 00:10.58 | alfa1 | I think I have all I need |
| 00:11.05 | JeffM | and when you are wrong? |
| 00:11.09 | JeffM | what will you do then? |
| 00:11.36 | alfa1 | what kind of question is that? |
| 00:11.37 | JeffM | have you EVEN examined the logs? |
| 00:11.53 | JeffM | you say allejo did it, what will you do if/when you are wrong? |
| 00:12.43 | alfa1 | if I were you I would tell me what to do not what to do if I am wrong |
| 00:13.26 | JeffM | how can I tell you what to do when you provide no information on what happened |
| 00:13.37 | JeffM | you automaticly blame someone specific..... |
| 00:14.35 | JeffM | eval your logs and see what kind of attack it was. if you arn't willing to do that basic level of investigation you should not be allowed to run a server. |
| 00:15.46 | alfa1 | he filled every free slot in, it is at least a DoS attack, true? |
| 00:15.54 | JeffM | not nessiarly |
| 00:16.08 | JeffM | you said you supported 100 players, you should be able to host 100 players |
| 00:16.18 | alfa1 | yes, by 2 groups as I said |
| 00:16.29 | JeffM | how would a person conencting know that? |
| 00:16.30 | blast007 | an observer is an observer |
| 00:16.35 | JeffM | the protocoll doesn't care |
| 00:16.41 | JeffM | the game allows 200 players to connect |
| 00:16.46 | blast007 | bzadmin client actually receive *more* data than normal ones, I think |
| 00:16.50 | blast007 | since it would be all TCP |
| 00:17.09 | blast007 | I think they'd still receive player updates |
| 00:17.10 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:17.14 | JeffM | and they ignore a bunch |
| 00:17.20 | JeffM | so they use a lot of bandwith |
| 00:17.21 | alfa1 | they get lot of lag yes |
| 00:17.35 | blast007 | the lag is just because they don't respond to the ping packet |
| 00:17.41 | blast007 | they don't actually have that much lag |
| 00:17.47 | alfa1 | I suppose those are lost/delayed packages as happens when you minimize normal clients |
| 00:17.51 | JeffM | they also have 0 packetloss |
| 00:18.08 | alfa1 | i see 3000 lag IIRC |
| 00:18.13 | alfa1 | usually |
| 00:18.16 | blast007 | read what I said |
| 00:18.26 | blast007 | you seem to have a problem with that though |
| 00:18.41 | JeffM | why does he have a list key? |
| 00:18.53 | blast007 | because he asked for one |
| 00:19.01 | JeffM | there should be some kind of test |
| 00:19.07 | JeffM | basic networking |
| 00:19.54 | alfa1 | I will continue in private then |
| 00:22.16 | JeffM | were you able to mitigate the attack? |
| 00:26.10 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:26.49 | blast007 | Level 2... FIGHT! |
| 00:29.40 | JeffM | were you able to stop it from affecting your server? |
| 00:29.47 | JeffM | I don't care HOW you did it, just if you were |
| 00:31.10 | JeffM | I am very interested in attach mitigation techniques for a server codebase I am working on, so understanding how attacks happen is important. |
| 00:43.05 | allejo | so. am I done being blamed for things I didn't do? |
| 00:44.29 | blast007 | nah, because having a different IP isn't enough, apparently. |
| 00:44.32 | the_map | have they mentioned the melting glaciers yet? |
| 00:46.43 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:47.00 | JeffM | I am only blaming you for something you have done a baseless accusation |
| 00:47.18 | blast007 | was the IP from a company that offers cell service? |
| 00:47.22 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:47.43 | blast007 | apparently allejo is the only person in the state |
| 00:48.29 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:48.36 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:48.49 | JeffM | What evidence do you have that itâs a proxy |
| 00:48.51 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:48.52 | blast007 | so the cell connection had nothing to do with it? |
| 00:50.57 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:51.51 | blast007 | no, but it means that the cell connection had nothing to with changing their IP |
| 00:51.57 | blast007 | the VPN did that, not the cell connection |
| 00:52.06 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:52.19 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:52.37 | blast007 | which doesn't work for all ISPs either. for instance, my ISP holds my IP for quite a while, even if I turn it off for a thunderstorm |
| 00:52.47 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:52.56 | the_map | or if the thunderstorm turns it off |
| 00:53.09 | blast007 | the_map: well, sure, or that :) |
| 00:53.31 | blast007 | though depending on how *directly* it turns it off, my IP might change, since a new modem would get a different lease :P |
| 00:53.35 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:54.06 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:54.33 | blast007 | but not the same ISP, generally, and not near ranges if they're different ISPs |
| 00:55.30 | blast007 | like, for instance, comcast doesn't offer cell service as far as I know. that'd be a terrible phone... every third call would drop.. they'd throttle your voice data so you'd sound all roboty... and the customer support would be...comcastic |
| 00:55.42 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:56.17 | the_map | you really ought to research connections before making accusations that depend on the answers to your research |
| 00:57.03 | blast007 | tubes! a series of tubes! |
| 00:57.19 | blast007 | that tube is near that other tube! must be the same tube! |
| 00:58.26 | the_map | https://xkcd.com/1922/ |
| 00:59.10 | the_map | alfa1: so can you give specific details about the attack? so far it has sounded like you *think* you were attacked, but don't actually know what the attack was or even if you were actually attacked |
| 00:59.40 | alfa1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:00.03 | the_map | what do you mean? |
| 01:00.16 | blast007 | he means he's going to be silent for a while |
| 01:00.41 | the_map | I'm not sure what he meant about chats and contents of attacks |
| 01:01.22 | allejo | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:01.34 | the_map | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:33.44 | macsforme | he is probably concerned about privacy... although he didn't seemed particularly concerned about others' reputations, to make an accusation like that |
| 08:14.46 | *** join/#bzflag nadir (uid134094@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbzplpfmaluiyawg) |
| 08:21.05 | *** join/#bzflag kierra (~quassel@2605:9880:0:5f2:225:90ff:fed7:86e6) |
| 08:21.07 | *** join/#bzflag allejo (~allejo@bzflag/developer/allejo) |
| 08:21.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v allejo] by ChanServ |
| 08:21.08 | *** join/#bzflag mdskpr (~quassel@00.alucard.sujevo.io) |
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| 08:26.06 | *** join/#bzflag allejo (~allejo@bzflag/developer/allejo) |
| 08:26.06 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v allejo] by ChanServ |
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| 10:01.11 | allejo | the *majority* of my servers have returned. there are still a handful that are missing but I'll continue restoring those later when I wake up |
| 12:06.36 | *** join/#bzflag GDiaX (~gdiax@188.251.57.44) |
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| 13:12.26 | kierra | you hit the nail on the head, macsforme! |
| 14:23.59 | the_map | not that it would be likely that his word would stand up against allejo's, or that allejo's reputation could be diminished by him |
| 14:53.09 | kierra | With new players who don't better, it might |
| 16:07.07 | kierra | Don't know* better |
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