IRC log for #curseforge on 20090424

00:06.27HjalteKaelten: For some reason teh Curse Client, windows, believes that the Talented_SpecTabs I have installed is unidentified and tries to match it with the right addon. But whenever I install and then refresh, it's back as unidentified.
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01:57.47Repo[WAR] 10tokenmachine: 03Aiiane * r15 / (3 files in 1 directory): Added tag 1.6.1 for changeset 627d53c1fac9
01:57.52RepoFixed an additional minor glitch with stack counting.
01:59.45Repo[WoW] 10jpack: 03jasongreen * r43 JPack.lua: fix an error on professional bag is full
02:03.19Repo[WoW] 10jpack: 03jasongreen 040.7-beta-2 * r44 : Tagging as 0.7-beta-2
02:06.34Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/spellflash/. SpellFlash. BigRedBrent (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
02:06.39Repo[RoM] New project: http://rom.curseforge.com/projects/easyitems/. Easy Item Manipulation. jjflanigan (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
02:06.45Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/merchanthelper/. Merchant Helper. Zalitharia (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
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03:17.38Ackis~fisker-++
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03:33.46Repo[WoW] 10pally-power: 03Aznamir * r73 / (5 files in 2 directories): localization improvement (enUS)
03:34.41Repo[WoW] 10pally-power: 03Aznamir 04b3.1.09 * r74 : Tagging as b3.1.09
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03:54.24Repo[WoW] 10cauldron: 03pschifferer * r119 CauldronUtil.lua: Hopefully fixed a nil index issue.
03:56.59Repo[WoW] 10decursive: 03Archarodim 07master * 2.4.0.3-2-g291ea87 / (4 files in 1 directory): [+1 commit] - Added support for the new priest talent 'Body and soul' to be able to cleanse a poison effect on self when using abolish disease.
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04:08.09Repo[WoW] 10cauldron: 03pschifferer * r120 CauldronUtil.lua: Fixed another nil index instance.  *sigh*
04:14.48Repo[WoW] 10cauldron: 03pschifferer * r121 CauldronUtil.lua:
04:14.51RepoOne day I'll learn how Lua really works.  I even have a book. >.>
04:42.56Repo[WoW] 10cauldron: 03pschifferer * r122 CauldronUtil.lua:
04:42.59RepoReduced the logging level of a sanity check, since its output during some circumstances is apparently not as useful as orginally intended.
04:47.37Repo[WoW] 10whats-this: 03mightymoocow * r9 / (17 files in 5 directories): Fixing a dumb bug for patch 3.1
04:47.40RepoCleaning up, using Ace3 libraries instead of home-grown code.
04:52.11*** join/#curseforge Hirsute (i=Rupert@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute)
04:53.01HirsuteHey all.  How would I go about restricting svn access to my project? (disabling checkout via the public svn, for example)
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04:56.44HirsuteBah.  Looks like they're going to be bringing our network down here presently.  I'll check back on that question later.
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05:41.03Repo[WoW] 10clamstacker: 03gunboat 04v1.0.0 * afb9174 /: [new tag, +2 commits] tagging as v1.0.0
05:44.13Repo[WoW] 10clamstacker: 03gunboat 07master * v1.0.0-2-gd2aaaa7 / (6 files in 3 directories): [new, +2 commits]
05:44.16Repod2aaaa7: Need AceBucket too
05:44.19Repoce3d9dc: Need AceBucket too
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07:23.24Repo[WoW] 10qlayout: 03Quaiche * r15 / (2 files in 1 directory): Changed some stuff w/ ChatFrame2 (combat log)
07:23.27RepoRemoved some of the stuff that saved settings into chat-cache.txt and made uninstalling harder than it should be
07:23.30RepoAdded code to make the standard blizz config panel movable
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08:38.44Repo[WoW] 10mynpc: 03Xamdnarg * r35 / (6 files in 2 directories): Xam - New dialog frame
09:05.09jnwhitehKaelten: I've had a number of comments that I get emailed about
09:05.13jnwhitehbut then aren't there when I go to the site
09:05.17jnwhitehcan users delete their comments?
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09:20.58Arrowmasterjnwhiteh: yes
09:21.20jnwhitehah k
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11:29.44Repo[WAR] 10bagomatic: 03Bola * r15 / (2 files in 1 directory): Sorting mounts, scrolls and book
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11:35.47Repo[WAR] 10bagomatic: 03Bola * r16 BagOMaticData.lua: Data file
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12:00.58Repo[WoW] 10goingprice_allakhazam: 03Neikos * r609 / (2 files in 2 directories): Updating to version 3.1.1240574381
12:01.04Repo[WoW] 10goingprice_allakhazam: 03Neikos 043.1.1240574381 * r610 : Tagging version 3.1.1240574381
12:08.22*** join/#curseforge Hirsute-Home (i=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute)
12:15.35Hirsute-HomeHi all, checking back here.  Is it possible with a project on curseforge to deny svn access (even checkout access) to anyone other than project members?
12:16.23Hirsute-Home(I have a project that isn't ready for public consumption at all yet, I intend for it to be much more palateable within the next week or two)
12:18.37nevcairielyou cannot restrict checkout access
12:19.18Hirsute-Homenevcairiel: Good to know. I guess I"ll just put a big, "This isn't ready for use yet, if you check it out, I won't be supporting it" note on there for the time being, then.
12:19.19Hirsute-HomeThanks!
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12:41.16Pneumatusyou can tell the packager not to package alphas as well,
12:41.30Pneumatusso there wont be any zips to download
12:45.13ckknightHirsute-Home: other services charge for closed repos
12:45.20ckknightso ... slip me a fiver
12:45.21ckknight<.<
12:45.22ckknight>.>
12:46.04Hirsute-HomePneumatus: *nod*  I've done that.
12:46.20Hirsute-Homeckknight: Let me see if I can convince my wife to let my have posession of my wallet.  >.>
12:46.30ckknightlol
12:46.37ckknightbut no, you don't need that
12:47.13Hirsute-HomeIt really isn't that big of a deal.  I just wanted to avoid anyone obtaining the addon and then crying that it was horribly broken.  I'll just warn them that it's broken, and am not currently supporting it.
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13:46.18Nomad_WandererHey.. anyone that can answer a question around the ticketing system on curseforge?
13:46.46sztanpetwho knows without knowing your question?
13:46.53Nomad_WandererIs it a custom implementation? Is it a reskinned trac? bugzilla?
13:47.11nevcairielcustom
13:47.28Nomad_WandererAh... So mylyn is not a possibility ..
13:47.42Nomad_WandererThanks
14:00.13Repo[WoW] 10goingprice_wowhead: 03Neikos * r187 / (2 files in 2 directories): Updating to version 3.1.1240581506
14:00.18Repo[WoW] 10goingprice_wowhead: 03Neikos 043.1.1240581506 * r188 : Tagging version 3.1.1240581506
14:02.01ckknightNomad_Wanderer: I made it
14:02.17Nomad_Wandererit's nice.
14:02.38ckknightglad you think so
14:02.48Nomad_WandererI'm addicted to mylyn though.. so where ever I go, I see if they support mylyn.
14:03.18KaeltenAiiane: can I get you to look at Kwestor in the approval queue?
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14:32.00Pneumatusnetcurse: fyi, addon update notification emails coming from emailcampaigns.net have a much lower spamassassin score than the comment updates, but the email still has problems
14:34.21PneumatusDomains By Proxy hosts are getting a lower spamassasin score now though by default, it looks like the rules might have been updated
14:34.33Pneumatusdown to 0.478, rather than 2+
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14:41.10Repo[WAR] New project: http://war.curseforge.com/projects/libachievements/. LibAchievements. tmpst (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
14:41.17Repo[WAR] New project: http://war.curseforge.com/projects/ishealbotnb/. ISHealBotNB. Shayme (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
14:46.36Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/inventory-hawk-continued/. Inventory Hawk. Quickshot14 (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
14:53.25Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/swstats-3_0/. SWStats for 3.0. MAD111CAT (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
14:54.03Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/ouro-vent/. Ouro Vent. Farmbuyer (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
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16:04.15Arrowmasterswstats-3_0?
16:04.56Arrowmasterno link at all to the swstats domain in the description....
16:06.01sag_ich_nichtsounds like bullshit
16:06.07nevcairielyeah Ackis isn't checking licenses, like usual
16:06.13sag_ich_nicht~lart Ackis
16:06.13purlbeats Ackis to within 2.54cm of his life
16:07.47sag_ich_nichtso Arrowmaster
16:07.50sag_ich_nichtabout that update for speedfu
16:10.18Ackisckknight: http://wow.curseforge.com/admin/reports/666-files_file-ghi-0-24-exe/
16:11.05ckknightit's just an addon?
16:11.05ckknightno.
16:12.07Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/cuttlzspmclnz/. CuttlzSpmClnz. blastofish (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
16:12.12Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/glyph-vendor/. Glyph Vendor. xamrebyc (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
16:12.23Elkanockknight, any chance to be allowed to submit a batch file to svn?
16:12.35ckknighteh...
16:12.38ckknightwhat for?
16:14.09Elkanogenerating the MyMedia.lua file for SharedMedia
16:15.16nevcairielyou're worrying way too much about that silly addon =P
16:15.20nevcairieland batch files are bad
16:15.44nevcairielif someone wants to mess with custom textures, they can manage to create a file by themself
16:17.18nevcairielhell they managed until now :)
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16:17.57Repo[WoW] 10qid: 03Anaral * r20 QualityID (2 files in 1 directory):  (Message trimmed by 9 lines)
16:18.00Repo--3.10
16:18.03Repo*udated toc for Blizz patch 3.1
16:18.06Repo*implemented options to add a line before and/or after QIDs info. Use /qid ingame for
16:18.07Kaeltennevcairiel: actually it looks like Ackis was ok in approving it
16:18.09Repocommands.
16:18.14Kaeltenhowever the guy needs to be told not to gpl it.
16:18.38nevcairielHe isn't even crediting the original author
16:18.52nevcairielor saying that it isnt him
16:18.55Kaeltenwhich is bad form
16:19.27Repo[WoW] 10clamstacker: 03gunboat 04v1.0.1 * 06f382b /: [new tag] tagging as v1.0.1
16:20.00KaeltenWe shouldn't just bitch about ackis when he's the only one who touched the thing after it sitting in the queue for several days.
16:20.29KaeltenAnd the original license didn't require attribution, but does imply that derivitive works are allowed
16:20.41Kaeltenshrugs
16:20.43KaeltenI hate licensing
16:21.08Repo[WoW] 10qid: 03Anaral 043.10.21 * r21 : Tagging as 3.10.21
16:22.17Repo[WoW] 10qid: 03Anaral 04v3.10.21 * r22 : Tagging as v3.10.21
16:28.52Repo[WoW] 10qid: 03Anaral * r23 / (4 files in 2 directories):  (Message trimmed by 9 lines)
16:28.55Repo--3.10
16:28.58Repo*udated toc for Blizz patch 3.1
16:29.01Repo*implemented options to add a line before and/or after QIDs info. Use /qid ingame for
16:29.04Repocommands.
16:29.34Repo[WoW] 10qid: 03Anaral 04v3.10.23 * r24 : Tagging as v3.10.23
16:45.28netcurseneed testers for new cc version
16:45.31*** join/#curseforge MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)
16:45.32netcursewho wants to try
16:45.54netcursenew feature: does coffe for you
16:46.09HjalteWhat a shame, I don't like coffee :(
16:46.36HjalteI wouldn't mind trying it out though.
16:46.47netcursehttp://curseclient.curse.com/3.0.0.4/CurseSetup-3.0.0.4.exe
16:47.19netcursecurse profiler doesn t install by default anymore
16:47.29netcursethe none premium experience is finished
16:47.47netcurseshow errors to users if installation fail
16:47.55netcursefixed some bugs
16:48.57Repo[WoW] 10clamstacker: 03gunboat 07master * v1.0.1-1-g63db9d1 / (4 files in 1 directory): [+1 commit] Added AceTimer embed
16:49.13Repo[WoW] 10clamstacker: 03gunboat 04v1.0.2 * dd1d7f6 /: [new tag] tagging as v1.0.2
16:50.33HjaltePopup on install is nice, shouldnt have users complain about the Profiler anymore then.
16:55.20*** join/#curseforge MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)
16:59.28HjalteThere's still the issue of the text of some addons making you scroll horizontically, like Ace3, when the client is as small as possible.
16:59.48HjalteIn Regular mode*
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17:01.32HjalteIt's also not possible to mark more than one addon in Regular mode, which is useful if you want to uninstall several :)
17:03.34Repo[WoW] 10mynpc: 03Xamdnarg * r36 / (4 files in 2 directories): Xam - New dialog frame
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17:09.28netcursetrue
17:09.32netcursewe need to fidn a sollution to this
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18:50.12Repo[WAR] 10pure: 03wikki * r191 / (4 files in 2 directories): Removed the warband group code.
19:11.55sag_ich_nicht>runesdb.com
19:11.57sag_ich_nichtwhat is this.
19:12.02sag_ich_nichtare you now supporting runescape.
19:12.11sag_ich_nichthave you finally discovered that it's the second biggest MMO.
19:12.18ArrowmasterClassrunes of magic
19:12.23sag_ich_nichtoh.
19:12.27sag_ich_nichtwell fuck that.
19:12.48HjalteI played Runescape for a year or so when I was younger. It was great because it could be played on the simplest computers and from school.
19:15.51Gnarfozalways trolling ^^
19:16.01sag_ich_nichtactually I'm not trolling
19:16.08sag_ich_nichtrunescape really is the second biggest mmo after WoW
19:16.14sag_ich_nichtcheck yourself :)
19:20.05sag_ich_nichtreal casuals play runescape, not WoW
19:20.09sag_ich_nichtlol market shares.
19:20.16sag_ich_nichtsee, NOW I'm trolling
19:20.21sag_ich_nichtlearn the god damn difference Gnarfoz
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19:27.42Gnarfozsag_ich_nicht: just shut the fuck up ^^
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20:03.14Kaelten~seen kagarao
20:03.20purli haven't seen 'kagarao', Kaelten
20:03.20Kaelten~seen kagaro
20:03.21purlkagaro <n=kagaro@cpe-098-026-067-218.nc.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 8d 8h 12m 16s ago, saying: 'we were'.
20:32.51Repo[WoW] 10wim-3: 03Pazza * r205 / (2 files in 2 directories): Another negotiation fix.
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21:23.44sag_ich_nichtLooking for willing forum troll with US account
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21:42.35Repo[WoW] 10overachiever: 03Tuhljin * r20 / (4 files in 3 directories):
21:42.38Repo- Localization: Support (in code) for esMX and koKR added to Tabs and Trade modules.
21:42.41Repo- Trade module: System for renaming objectives added, used when achievement criteria lists the wrong name for an item. Used this system to rename "Spiced Wyrm Burger" in "The Northrend Gourmet" to "Spiced Worm Burger" (actual recipe name).
21:53.52Repo[WoW] 10overachiever: 03Tuhljin 04v0.41 * r21 : Tagging as v0.41.
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22:16.16netcursehi
22:38.27Yewbacca2Do any of you know whether there's a way to check if a ChatFrameX (X=number) is the combat log or not? I can't find any api for this.
22:42.16Repo[WoW] 10tift: 03Hirsute * r2 TIFT (5 files in 1 directory): Initial commit
22:54.48Repo[WAR] 10xhud: 03computerpunk * r72 / (2 files in 1 directory): - Added a more useful moving, thanks to splinterz.
22:54.54Repo- Made profiles global.
22:57.18*** join/#curseforge Tinyboom (n=nahh@206.84-49-89.nextgentel.com)
22:58.26Repo[WAR] 10xhud: 03computerpunk 042.1.6.4 * r73 : Tagging as 2.1.6.4.
22:58.31RepoChanges in the previous revision.
23:02.04Repo[WoW] 10pally-power: 03Aznamir * r75 locale (2 files in 1 directory): new DE and TW locales
23:08.06Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/watchxp/. WatchXP. Foxthorn (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
23:09.42Repo[WoW] 10pally-power: 03Aznamir * r76 locale/koKR.lua: new KR locale
23:09.51netcursewe are dealing with the legal aspects of the author reward program
23:10.18Repo[WoW] 10pally-power: 03Aznamir 04b3.1.10 * r77 : Tagging as b3.1.10
23:10.50netcursebetween the IRS, different laws in europe and in the US
23:11.11netcursei don't think we'll have it for premium launch
23:19.10Ackiswill you arcue points?
23:24.21Yewbacca2Aww, that's a good point. Does that mean we'll all have to send in tax forms? :P
23:24.33Yewbacca2Ackis hay mate ;) new project, mind looking? http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/macroshrinker/files/
23:25.10Repo[WoW] New project: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/macroshrinker/. MacroShrinker. Yewbacca (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis.
23:25.27AckisYewbacca2: no! :P
23:25.33Yewbacca2Oh nooe :((
23:25.39Yewbacca2hides from the wrath of Thor
23:25.54Yewbacca2Thanks for approving it ;)
23:26.14Ackisnp
23:28.21Repo[WAR] 10warcommander: 03Flimgoblin * r27 WARCommander/WARCommander (3 files in 1 directory): added zone data collection helper slash commands
23:28.26Repodata for last of the tier3 scenarios, and two of the t4 scenarios
23:28.46netcurseYewbacca2, above 600 dollars of rewards yes
23:28.49netcursewe will need a w2
23:29.10netcurseany top 50 addons authors will have to send us a w2 basically
23:29.11Yewbacca2Ah so there's a cap below which no tax forms are needed?
23:29.21netcursewe are looking at europe right now and how to best deal with this
23:29.23netcurseyes
23:29.31Yewbacca2Lucky, it'd be hell if everyone had to send one
23:29.46netcurseWe will be comunicating all of this on the store.curseforge.com website
23:29.52Yewbacca2Aye
23:30.25netcurseAckis, we plan on start counting points at launch
23:31.53Ackiswhat's a W2?
23:32.57Yewbacca2It's an IRS tax form that's required anytime you're paid a salary
23:33.26Ackisahh T4
23:33.32Ackis(I'm Canadian)
23:33.42Dashkalnetcurse: Are you going to have to deal with Canada?  Or are we to fend for ourselves?
23:34.32Yewbacca2Since it's global, it's a bag of hurt. Tax forms from around the globe :/
23:35.23Ackisthat's only for people that get $600 worth of stuff or more... top 50 you said net?
23:35.50DashkalThat $ figure probably varies from one jurisdiction to another
23:36.23netcurse600 dollar a year
23:36.27netcurseso it s going to be a LOT of authors
23:36.56netcurseDashhkal, we are looking at all the major countries
23:37.02netcurseto make it easy for you guys
23:37.24netcurseit's a lot of lawyers fees
23:37.29Yewbacca2Yeah. I think the easiest way to implement is this: maxLimit = getLocalMaxLimit(authorLocation); if accountTotal > maxLimit { freezeAccount() } and then they have to contact you with the tax form
23:37.47Yewbacca2So basically (ugh) look up the max taxfree limit all over the world
23:37.54netcursewe will have to freeze redeems
23:38.05Yewbacca2Yep
23:39.44Pneumatussurely its the authors responsibility to do whatever they need to be tax legal
23:39.46Pneumatusnot yours
23:40.53netcurseyeah :)
23:41.20netcursebut we still have to be able to provide all infos
23:41.22netcurseand make it easy
23:42.34netcursethe good news is, we think that we ll be able to do direct cash payments
23:42.40netcursefaster than expected
23:42.42Dashkalooo, pretty
23:43.39Ackisnetcurse: how many points for a night alone with ckknight?
23:44.27Pneumatuswhat kind of rewards are the average authors gonna have access to?
23:44.33Repo[WAR] 10xhud: 03computerpunk * r74 xHUDGUI.lua: Missed some lines. Some functions are not working.
23:44.46netcurseAckis, i heard Cameron do it for free with canadians
23:44.56Ackis~netcurse++
23:44.57netcursePneumatus, it really depends of your user base
23:45.24Pneumatuswell, what do you guys consider an "average" author for userbase? :P
23:45.25Repo[WAR] 10xhud: 03computerpunk 042.1.6.5 * r75 : - Updates in the last revision.
23:45.32Pneumatusi dunno what my userbase is, a few thousand i guess
23:46.49AckisPneumatus: ask ckknight to run numbers for you
23:47.01ckknightomg numbers
23:47.07Pneumatusplx to numbers ckknight :>
23:47.08AckisPANIC
23:47.08Dashkalomgbees!
23:47.19ckknightwhat numbers?
23:47.24Yewbacca2Who is it that codes the curse client? When using the "install libraries separately" mode (very good by the way), most of the libraries are accurately put under the "Library" category. There really should be a button to "hide libraries" that shows up when you've enabled separate install of libraries, just to be able to see wtf is going on ;)
23:47.52ckknightnot a bad suggestion, Yewbacca2
23:47.54ckknighttell Kaelten
23:48.04Yewbacca2Hey knight :)
23:48.09Yewbacca2Oh yeah kaelten
23:49.01netcursewe also evaluating a real cocoa app for mac users
23:49.03netcurseare
23:49.04ckknightPneumatus: what numbers, specifically?
23:49.19Pneumatuswhats my install base?
23:49.56ckknightPneumatus: 10164
23:50.00scrugiohmm i belive in new zealand a reward is classified as a gift
23:50.02Yewbacca2I've messaged him about it. For more accuracy, it should probably hide ALL addons marked for "nolib packing", since some libraries like LibAlts-1.0 by sylvanaar is marked as "Chat & Communication"
23:50.18netcursethat s over 1.1 millions active curse client, pneumatus
23:51.06Yewbacca2scrugio possible, that's the kind of problems they face now, building a table of country -> maxlimit/gift classifications
23:51.13scrugiowhich would mean any authors uploading any scripts and getting any rewards would be a talt value of  up to 26k
23:51.14Pneumatusis that gonna be worth much as far as the author rewards go?
23:51.32netcursescrugio we need to look at australia
23:51.46Pneumatus10k/1.1mil is pretty small :o
23:52.06ckknight1%'s not bad
23:52.28ComputerpunkYep
23:52.29ComputerpunkIt's not.
23:52.30DashkalI remember being somewhat surprised by my number.  Not large in terms of the entire curse client userbase, but damn
23:52.37Pneumatusmost of that being from ClassLoot, ckknight?
23:52.43ckknightlemme check
23:53.03ckknightclassloot = 4922
23:53.29Pneumatusand the same again for libbabbletalenttree i guess :P
23:53.50Pneumatusor is that a different set of numbers?
23:54.25netcurseaverage is 23 addons per users
23:54.31netcurse23*1.1 millions
23:54.46Yewbacca2Do the download stats discard any downloads from the same ip as the author? If not, do that to prevet cheating
23:54.49Yewbacca2prevent*
23:55.13netcurseone more install over 10k is not making a difference
23:55.26Pneumatuscurse client install base seems a pretty reasonable metric
23:55.36Pneumatuscant really doctor it
23:56.02Yewbacca2Agreed. But what about if they use 1000 proxies? You'd have to either try port 8080 to see if the ip is a proxy and not count it, or save "shitload of downloads in a short amount of time" metrics.
23:56.31DashkalYou'd need that many VMs as well so the installs look different.  It's install base, not downloads
23:56.50Yewbacca2Oh, the number goes by curse client installs?
23:56.51*** join/#curseforge MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)
23:57.16ComputerpunkDunno how many I got.
23:57.26netcursePneumatus, you ll pay your wow sub with that
23:58.48netcurseso you can do the math how much a user base of 1 million give you
23:59.07netcursebut that's all theory, at the end of the day it depends how many suscribe
23:59.18netcursewe are going to invest a certain amount of dollars ourself to kick it off

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