| 00:00.07 | JesseE | nice |
| 00:00.15 | element | dondelelcaro: he just left. but he was advertising in #php before ;) |
| 00:00.39 | mtnman | jessee: didn't mean *what* ? |
| 00:00.39 | JesseE | i can't beleive i forgot about ps |
| 00:00.40 | anonobomber | haha gotta love those irc spammers |
| 00:00.42 | dondelelcaro | element: yeah, I nailed it the other day... |
| 00:00.58 | JesseE | mtnman: to get riled up |
| 00:00.58 | element | dondelelcaro: he's on dialup...how would you keep him ofF? |
| 00:01.00 | g4lt | what about *!GoToMySite@* isn't screaming spammer? |
| 00:01.07 | element | dondelelcaro: besides banning the whole ISP |
| 00:01.09 | *** join/#debian bytesyze (~bytesyze@202.96.221.26) |
| 00:01.16 | *** join/#debian AMIGrAve (~AMIGrAve@214.52-201-80.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 00:01.18 | mtnman | jessee: you are free to do so, if that is what you choose :O) |
| 00:01.24 | Copperhead | taksel is not a recognized command |
| 00:01.35 | *** join/#debian Spec_ (Spec@wbar4.wdc2-4.16.198.13.wdc2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 00:01.39 | g4lt | Copperhead s/tak/task/ |
| 00:01.41 | mtnman | copperhead: apt-get install tasksel (as root) |
| 00:01.42 | dondelelcaro | !find bin/tasksel |
| 00:01.45 | mentor | element: Report him to his ISP? Vigilance? |
| 00:01.49 | *** join/#debian neiljp (~neiljp@du-069-0219.access.clara.net) |
| 00:01.49 | dpkg | Debian Search of 'bin/tasksel' (1 shown): (/usr/bin/tasksel) in base/tasksel. |
| 00:01.59 | Copperhead | login as root. right? |
| 00:02.02 | bullseye | what is lm-sensors ???? |
| 00:02.08 | element | mentor: is't not a crime to paste text on irc. |
| 00:02.08 | mtnman | copperhead: yes, or su. |
| 00:02.12 | dondelelcaro | bullseye: apt-cache show lm-sensors. |
| 00:02.15 | g4lt | mtnman if he has to install a package in base, he's WAY fucked |
| 00:02.18 | JesseE | mtnman: it usually doesn't help things =) |
| 00:02.25 | dondelelcaro | bullseye: and kindly refrain from using superfluous question marks. |
| 00:02.28 | element | end of topic about spammers. this is a debian channel ;) |
| 00:02.29 | mentor | dondelelcaro: No...but it might be against an AUP> |
| 00:02.43 | *** join/#debian Nahuel (~user@200.45.247.112) |
| 00:02.57 | mtnman | g4lt: afaik, tasksel is not a required package. |
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| 00:03.06 | bullseye | dident work |
| 00:03.14 | mtnman | jessee: then ignore my suggestion and find another solution. |
| 00:03.15 | Copperhead | i ran taksel during install. what did that do? |
| 00:03.17 | mentor | hum |
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| 00:03.21 | cafuego | g4lt: tasksel isn't required since sarge afaik. |
| 00:03.27 | cafuego | !info tasksel sarge |
| 00:03.28 | mentor | element: No, but it might be against their AUP. |
| 00:03.34 | g4lt | mtnman read dpkg's find result |
| 00:03.36 | *** join/#debian pme (~pme@adsl-68-252-19-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) |
| 00:03.38 | JesseE | mtnman: no no, i meant, it usually doesn't help things to get riled up |
| 00:03.41 | booboo | can someone tell me what's the purpose of /sys ? |
| 00:03.42 | dpkg | tasksel: (Tool for selecting tasks for installation on Debian system), section base, is optional. Version: 1.49 (sarge), Packaged size: 158 kB, Installed size: 1164 kB |
| 00:03.46 | mtnman | dpkg find tasksel |
| 00:03.47 | dpkg | Debian Package Listing of 'tasksel' (2 shown): gnome-tasksel ;; tasksel. |
| 00:03.47 | element | mentor: possibly, but doubtful. not really worth the time to investigate it. |
| 00:04.03 | g4lt | cafuego uhm, you can't directly install sarge, at least officially |
| 00:04.12 | cafuego | booboo: It partially replaces /proc/sys |
| 00:04.21 | JesseE | mtnman: i read man pages all the time. it's just hard to read when you don't know what you are looking for |
| 00:04.29 | mtnman | g4lt: according to apt-cache show tasksel, it is optional. |
| 00:04.35 | cafuego | g4lt: Yes, ou can. The sarge b3 iso is linked to from the main netinst page. |
| 00:04.42 | JesseE | example, i wouldn't have known to read the man page for ps, because i forgot ps existed |
| 00:04.58 | The_Faulkenator | Whats the easiest way to update GNOME? |
| 00:04.58 | mtnman | jessee: man apropos may help! :) |
| 00:04.59 | cafuego | booboo: ... for use mainly with 'udev' - the new dynamic /dev system. |
| 00:05.14 | The_Faulkenator | the GNOME on the install disk i used is very outdated |
| 00:05.19 | booboo | cafuego: ok, phew thought someone was tampering on my system ;) |
| 00:05.23 | The_Faulkenator | apt-get install gnome returns problems... |
| 00:05.35 | anonobomber | so fix the problems |
| 00:05.41 | JesseE | mtnman: ah, thanks =) see? didn't even know that existed either |
| 00:05.56 | cafuego | JesseE: 'apropos process' will give you all manpages that refernce 'process'. |
| 00:06.12 | cafuego | JesseE: ... with a brief description. |
| 00:06.26 | mtnman | jessee: welcome. when i was a noob, i always appreciated a pointer to a good doc. |
| 00:06.51 | bullseye | anyone got a god howto about recompiling kernel |
| 00:07.00 | xerophyte | how can i update my xmms i mean i dont get update it often is there any other deb link i need to add to source.list other than standard unstable deb lines |
| 00:07.15 | mtnman | bullseye: i would suggest apt-get install kernel-package and read its docs. |
| 00:07.27 | rdancer | The_Faulkenator: debian on a desktop is a no-no, to start with something. apart from that, there are backports.org |
| 00:07.39 | cafuego | bullseye: apt-get install kernel-package; cd /usr/share/doc/kernel-package; ls |
| 00:07.40 | Justin | xerophyte: try that again with punctuation. |
| 00:07.45 | pme | bullseye: the Debian Users Guide has a chapter on that, with pointers to docs. |
| 00:07.57 | cafuego | bullseye: Of course, the kernel itself also comes with docs. |
| 00:08.00 | mtnman | rdancer: i beg to differ. debian runs on all of my desktops. |
| 00:08.16 | bullseye | thx to all |
| 00:08.21 | JesseE | alright, thanks for the pointers everyone |
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| 00:08.26 | JesseE | be back later perhaps |
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| 00:08.36 | mtnman | jessee: happy reading! |
| 00:08.45 | JesseE | indeed |
| 00:08.50 | Copperhead | which display manager: KDM or GDM? |
| 00:08.54 | *** part/#debian DrNach (~Nach@bzq-80-12-233.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 00:09.01 | *** part/#debian makholm (~makholm@81.168.75.8) |
| 00:09.04 | anonobomber | rdancer, wth, debian on a desktop a no-no? since when? |
| 00:09.10 | rdancer | mtnman: ok, ok: s/desktop/self-administered &/ ;) |
| 00:09.11 | mtnman | copperhead: i use neither. |
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| 00:09.31 | rdancer | anonobomber: ^^ |
| 00:09.32 | mtnman | rdancer: i don't follow you.... |
| 00:09.32 | cafuego | Copperhead: gdm, as kdm doesn't honour .xsession |
| 00:09.36 | jbr | rdancer: less and less intelligible |
| 00:09.42 | cafuego | kdm also has issues with xdmcp |
| 00:09.47 | Copperhead | ok |
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| 00:10.33 | cafuego | rdancer: Why so? My ife self-administers her debian desktop, and she switched from MacoS 9! |
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| 00:10.36 | rdancer | jbr, mtnman, anonobomber: debian is for admins, not for the rest of them |
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| 00:10.57 | pme | Trying to move from kernel 2.4 to 2.6. Old kernel assigns /dev/sda to the SATA drive (the only hard drive) and hdc to the cdrom (the only IDE device). The 2.6 kernel calls them hda and hdg respectively, which causes all kinds of fun for /etc/fstab. Why is it naming the SCSI devices as if they were IDE, and what can I tweak to keep the same names? |
| 00:11.05 | mtnman | rdancer: that is your (humble) opinion. i beg to differ. |
| 00:11.06 | jbr | rdancer: with debian, the rest of them can be admins |
| 00:11.07 | mentor | rdancer: I would suggest that Debian is possibly only for people who want to learn how to administrate a Debian system. |
| 00:11.20 | cafuego | rdancer: Debian is for people without reading aversion or selective dyslexia. |
| 00:11.39 | g4lt | cafuego HEY! |
| 00:11.53 | cafuego | g4lt: WHAT? |
| 00:12.03 | rich_ | Debian is for everybody. The people who find it the most difficult are the ones who are used to windows, they dont that windows is not even comparable. |
| 00:12.12 | mtnman | reading is an essential skill if you want to run debian on the desktop, or anywhere else. |
| 00:12.13 | pme | I think mentor has hit the closest. Debian's definitely not a fire-and-forget system, other than woody. Not necessarily a bad thing, but does take a lot of time. |
| 00:12.18 | rich_ | realise |
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| 00:12.27 | g4lt | selective dyslexia indeed. is this some kind of insult here? |
| 00:12.30 | rdancer | jbr, mtnman, anonobomber: you have to while :; do configure; done take the /msg apt-get real-kernel-image -- that's a stopper, and just one of the first ones |
| 00:12.43 | mlgd | sack : it's good !!! thank's |
| 00:12.46 | cafuego | g4lt: No, why do you thnik that? |
| 00:12.46 | fyn | I've a new computer at work. Can I install testing on it or will it not support my hardware yet? (ht p4, 9200se w/LCD on dvi connector, 865g chipset) |
| 00:12.54 | mentor | pme: You still have to run security updates on woody. |
| 00:12.55 | jbr | rdancer: I do? I never ever touch configure |
| 00:12.56 | g4lt | !g4lt |
| 00:12.57 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, g4lt is just this guy you see. Mr. Congeniality, or prone to typos. he can translate from typoese if asked though, or <helix> peterS: g4lt is just mean |
| 00:13.01 | cafuego | g4lt: I'm referring to "i don't read docs" morons. |
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| 00:13.09 | mtnman | rdance: however, it is perfectly possible to run debian and never compile a kernel. |
| 00:13.12 | g4lt | ahhh |
| 00:13.16 | sack | mlgd, avec pleasir ;-) |
| 00:13.25 | Vinland | would anyone mind letting me take a look at their apt-sources list? |
| 00:13.31 | mlgd | sack : merci de parler français |
| 00:13.34 | g4lt | helix ain't factoids fun? ;) |
| 00:13.37 | doublehp | Vinland: brb |
| 00:13.40 | Vinland | mon viande est tres grande |
| 00:13.40 | rdancer | mentor: exactly. and there are plenty of other activities to do, and i wouldn't want my mother to have a Bc in CS |
| 00:13.41 | mentor | g4lt: Hey! You were mean to helix...why I oughta... |
| 00:13.42 | sack | mlgd, de rien |
| 00:13.51 | helix | yeah, everyone has to love teh helix |
| 00:13.52 | rdancer | jbr: pseudocode... |
| 00:13.52 | cafuego | g4lt: Or people who install their first initrd kernel and "forgot" to read the message regarding lilo.conf. |
| 00:13.53 | doublehp | Vinland: thats not french ... |
| 00:13.58 | sack | mlgd, A+ |
| 00:14.04 | mlgd | @+ bye |
| 00:14.04 | pme | mentor: You'd have to install security updates on /whatever/ OS you run, so that's not really saying anything. :-) |
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| 00:14.11 | Vinland | doublehp- isn't it? |
| 00:14.13 | *** part/#debian mlgd (~mlgd@194.149.164.113) |
| 00:14.19 | jbr | rdancer: if I don't want a roll-my-own I just install a stock one |
| 00:14.25 | mentor | pme: Well, yeah...perhaps no system is fire and forget then... |
| 00:14.29 | doublehp | Vinland: no |
| 00:14.34 | jbr | rdancer: whereas under windows, I'd...? |
| 00:14.41 | doublehp | Vinland: doublehp.ath.cx/tmp |
| 00:15.01 | rdancer | jbr: ./configure != <do some configuration> |
| 00:15.04 | anonobomber | rdancer, i use my own kernels |
| 00:15.16 | rdancer | jbr: fuck away with wi*dows |
| 00:15.35 | rdancer | anonobomber: yesss, another stopper. ;) |
| 00:15.42 | pme | So... nobody has any ideas on the scsi/ide drive question? |
| 00:16.00 | *** part/#debian zo1 (~dfrick@client80-83-37-111.abo.net2000.ch) |
| 00:16.05 | jbr | rdancer: so what's your comparison with? |
| 00:16.10 | *** join/#debian Wyzard (mike@r193012.res.Lehigh.EDU) |
| 00:16.12 | mentor | pme: Um. SATA is IDE. |
| 00:16.13 | *** join/#debian elirips (~elirips@80-219-233-249.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 00:16.30 | rdancer | jbr: sod off |
| 00:16.35 | pme | mentor: Right, but 2.4 treats it like a SCSI device. |
| 00:16.37 | cafuego | mentor: as far as the kernel with libata is concerned, it's scsi. |
| 00:16.43 | doublehp | pme: I cant find your question |
| 00:16.51 | mentor | pme, cafuego: Not in 2.6? |
| 00:16.55 | jbr | rdancer: but what is it that has better policy to save me configuring it all myself? |
| 00:17.01 | helix | wuss |
| 00:17.12 | pme | mentor: Or are you saying that "treating it like a SCSI device" was a problem in 2.4, now fixed for 2.6, rather than the other way 'round? |
| 00:17.13 | rdancer | jbr: oh, sorry. |
| 00:17.17 | cafuego | mentor: Dunno about 2.6, have no sata myself. |
| 00:17.32 | jbr | rdancer: np |
| 00:17.33 | cafuego | helix: I'm not allowed to do sports yet |
| 00:17.38 | helix | hm |
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| 00:17.43 | helix | even with nerf stuff? |
| 00:17.48 | mtnman | cafuego: injury? |
| 00:17.57 | cafuego | and I never would play a wussy one where ou need to wear armour anyway |
| 00:18.07 | pme | doublehp: Here's the question again: |
| 00:18.19 | pme | Trying to move from kernel 2.4 to 2.6. Old kernel assigns /dev/sda to the SATA drive (the only hard drive) and hdc to the cdrom (the only IDE device). The 2.6 kernel calls them hda and hdg respectively, which causes all kinds of fun for /etc/fstab. Why is it naming the SCSI devices as if they were IDE, and what can I tweak to keep the same names? |
| 00:18.23 | cafuego | mtnman: in a sense, medical procedure, they took away my baby |
| 00:18.28 | mentor | pme: I'm saying that SATA is IDE. Seperately, SATA devices were part of the SCSI subsystem in Linux 2.4, but part of the IDE subsystem in 2.6; for better or for worse. |
| 00:18.42 | mentor | pme: I'm inclined to believe the IDE names are better. |
| 00:18.45 | bullseye | to recompile a kernel do i use the same commands that i used to compile it the first time ? |
| 00:18.54 | pme | mentor: Aha. So this situation is actually normal and correct. :-) |
| 00:18.58 | helix | mtnman: and he's been wearing some orange latex outfit ever since - i'm worried he may have an infection.. |
| 00:19.03 | mentor | pme: pretty much. |
| 00:19.07 | rdancer | jbr: take *BSD: hardware is probed for, and the drivers are loaded automaticaly; no need for lspci -> google -> irc -> guesswork -> recompile -> black magic... |
| 00:19.15 | Justin | pme: you can name your drives ROOT and HOME and stuff and put ROOT and HOME in fstab.... |
| 00:19.16 | jbr | rdancer: so what debian isn't (yet) is a machine for non-techie self-_installers_! |
| 00:19.17 | doublehp | pme: can I /msg you ? |
| 00:19.18 | mtnman | helix: sounds more like a mental illness... :) |
| 00:19.21 | mentor | haha. |
| 00:19.33 | cafuego | pme: udev or devfs would have /dev/disks//0/disc and stuff |
| 00:19.40 | rdancer | jbr: iirc, it was either openbsd, or netbsd |
| 00:19.47 | helix | real men don't play dumbass sports |
| 00:19.47 | pme | mentor: I don't actually care what the device names are. I just want them to not change, so I can boot back and forth without going nuts in /etc/fstab. |
| 00:19.55 | igraltist | bullseys: yes |
| 00:20.15 | mentor | pme: Try the UUID stuff? |
| 00:20.23 | cafuego | mentor: real men who like to hug other real men in shorts around the ass region a lot? |
| 00:20.24 | rdancer | jbr: there will be problems that'll require a (very) deep understanding of the system, yes. |
| 00:20.26 | pme | Justin: I was thinking about that... probably gonna have to try it. |
| 00:20.33 | mentor | cafuego: NB. I'm not a real man. |
| 00:20.48 | pme | doublehp: sure, |
| 00:20.55 | xerophyte | How can i use the apt-cache to list all the files in a certain package? |
| 00:20.56 | Guerin | Hey, what's the command to find out the uid and groupid of a user? My brain has deserted me ... |
| 00:20.59 | bullseye | ok |
| 00:21.01 | cafuego | mentor: Yeah well, we knew that... it's just a question ;-) |
| 00:21.02 | mentor | xerophyte: You can't. |
| 00:21.05 | *** join/#debian Holborn (~holborn@237.Red-217-125-137.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 00:21.12 | jbr | Guerin: id? |
| 00:21.14 | rdancer | cafuego: lol |
| 00:21.17 | cafuego | xerophyte: You can't. Use 'dpkg -L <package>' |
| 00:21.21 | mtnman | gurerren: less /etc/passwd |
| 00:21.28 | doublehp | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:21.29 | Guerin | gah |
| 00:21.31 | helix | cafuego: men grab each others asses in rugby? |
| 00:21.33 | Guerin | jbr, thanks |
| 00:21.41 | dondelelcaro | mentor: rugby? no thanks. It's all about waterpolo. |
| 00:21.43 | rdancer | cafuego: but yes, that feeeels gooood 8) |