irclog2html for #debian on 20041204

`00:00.05`	`Drakh`	`dondel: Good punctuation catch`
`00:00.20`	`*** join/#debian MepisBelle (~Old@adsl-68-121-102-89.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`00:00.23`	`Drakh`	`Klipper: You want the package for X?`
`00:00.31`	`Klipper`	`no`
`00:00.39`	`Klipper`	`the dpkg reconfigure command=`
`00:00.54`	`ml267`	`ribrdb: I think I found it... try the package mkrboot`
`00:01.01`	`*** join/#debian Nazgul (~nobody@adsl-68-121-102-89.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`00:01.07`	`Drakh`	`Klipper: Tried man dpkg?`
`00:01.13`	`ml267`	`ribrdb: I think it comes with pretty good instructions.`
`00:01.18`	`dondelelcaro`	`!tell Klipper about set up x`
`00:01.48`	`Klipper`	`thanks dondelelcaro`
`00:01.54`	`*** part/#debian lancey (Shady@213.137.48.2)`
`00:02.17`	`novem`	`what /dev/ by default would my quickcam be?`
`00:02.22`	`dondelelcaro`	`now that I've rebuild rxvt-unicode with debugging support, the silly thing doesn't want to segfault`
`00:02.32`	`dondelelcaro`	`novem: depends`
`00:02.39`	`Drakh`	`dondel: Been there`
`00:02.45`	`helix`	`dondelelcaro: you crashed urxvt?`
`00:03.11`	`*** join/#debian buffer (buffer@wnstmnhed01-pool0-a98.wlstsc.tds.net)`
`00:03.14`	`*** join/#debian stone_ (~stone@c-67-184-135-68.client.comcast.net)`
`00:03.19`	`dondelelcaro`	`helix: yeah, it was blowing up constantly... I'm not quite sure what was causing it though`
`00:03.22`	`buffer`	`Anyone here installed the ati-drivers on debian?`
`00:03.25`	`novem`	`i got hasciicam to dump the text into ~/watchme.html but its plan black, so im assuming that the device is invalid? how can i figure out what device my cam is`
`00:03.26`	`buffer`	`for X`
`00:03.31`	`helix`	`dondelelcaro: hm. I haven't had any problems..`
`00:03.43`	`simonrvn`	`novem: devices.txt. found in Documentation/ dir in kernel sources, or online`
`00:03.47`	`*** part/#debian baroni (~baroni@200.225.247.25)`
`00:03.49`	`dondelelcaro`	`helix: 'course, this was on ppc, so strange things tend to happen on correct endian architectures...`
`00:03.52`	`helix`	`ah`
`00:03.55`	`helix`	`heh`
`00:03.56`	`*** join/#debian cereal\|away (~cereal@217.20.127.85)`
`00:04.42`	`buffer`	`Or does anyone know what the best way of doing it is?`
`00:04.47`	`*** join/#debian Pluk (~Pluk@38-71-dsl.ipact.nl)`
`00:04.54`	`*** join/#debian xoz_ (~xoz@p7184-ipad03souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp)`
`00:05.01`	`*** join/#debian mrwill (~will@ip-083-160.oberlin.net)`
`00:05.29`	*** join/#debian bn` (~bn@pD95603E0.dip.t-dialin.net)
`00:05.54`	`takatumi`	`buffer: try /msg dpkg ati`
`00:06.00`	`*** join/#debian AgentK (~karl@100.25.233.220.exetel.com.au)`
`00:07.10`	`*** join/#debian smj_ (~hogwartz@ip68-99-108-4.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`00:07.23`	`simonrvn`	`too fucked that a moving a couple scsi cables away from the drives helped cool down the machine...`
`00:07.42`	`*** join/#debian Stevie-Oh (~whatsit2u@pcp05166895pcs.malvrn01.pa.comcast.net)`
`00:07.53`	`takatumi`	`simonrvn: couple in heat`
`00:07.57`	`Drakh`	`voodoo technology`
`00:08.23`	`simonrvn`	`takatumi: i guess they had the hots for each other`
`00:09.58`	`AgentK`	`i added another ip address to eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces but when the machine rebooted neither eth0 interface came up. second was iface eth0:0 inet static address 172.16.1.201. Any ideas?`
`00:10.28`	`*** join/#debian ahmad (~ahmad@Toronto-HSE-ppp3924135.sympatico.ca)`
`00:10.39`	`simonrvn`	`auto eth0 and auto eth0:0 present?`
`00:10.49`	`*** part/#debian TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-092.nyc-tc03a.FCC.NET)`
`00:10.58`	`mrwill`	`I'm having trouble writing to nfs filesystems and there is a log error 'nfs warning: mount version older than kernel'`
`00:11.02`	`ahmad`	`cat: r u still there?`
`00:11.03`	`AgentK`	`simonrvn: yes`
`00:11.13`	`*** join/#debian nimb (~rgardner@c-24-8-164-19.client.comcast.net)`
`00:11.18`	`mrwill`	`this is woody, what should I do?`
`00:11.22`	`nimb`	`how do I find out the number of my X display?`
`00:11.31`	`simonrvn`	`drivers are loaded / load at boot / built-in?`
`00:11.40`	`*** join/#debian Gujiz (Gujiz@a193-229-103-161.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`00:11.49`	`ahmad`	`cause it didn't work, i mean reconfiguring X`
`00:11.57`	`simonrvn`	`nimb: if you have to ask, and don,t know that, it's 0`
`00:12.04`	`AgentK`	`simonrvn: Yes, when I leave out eth0:0, then eth0 comes up fine with 172.16.1.200`
`00:12.19`	`Drakh`	`mrwill: Did you google on the warning?`
`00:12.21`	`Gujiz`	`hmm, will linux use swap, or should i configure it to use swap ?`
`00:12.21`	`thoreauputic`	`nimb: echo $DISPLAY`
`00:12.22`	`novem`	`could anyone tell me the command to mount a fat32 d drive? mount -t vfat /dev/hdd1?`
`00:12.25`	`*** join/#debian ml267 (~knite@evrtwa1-ar7-4-63-188-016.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net)`
`00:12.30`	`*** join/#debian diablo266 (~diablo@ip68-99-189-196.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`00:12.45`	`*** join/#debian veruus (~veruus@ip24-250-238-117.ga.at.cox.net)`
`00:12.50`	`pipeline`	`Gujiz: You have to explicitly provide swap.`
`00:12.52`	`mrwill`	`Drakh: well, yeah, it said to replace mount with a newer version or recompile it. I guess I should ask what the easiest course of action would be to accomplish this.`
`00:12.56`	`pipeline`	`Gujiz: Usually on a separate partition.`
`00:12.57`	`stew`	`novem: add a mount point to the end of that command`
`00:13.01`	`ahmad`	`anyone, any ideas? my video/audio flickers very badly (almost every second) since i upgraded my kernel from 2.6.8-5 to 2.6.8-10`
`00:13.04`	`AgentK`	`simonrvn: should the second iface be eth0:0 or eth0:1?`
`00:13.07`	`*** join/#debian kensai (~kensai@64.237.129.108)`
`00:13.08`	`nimb`	`simonrvn: do you have any idea why when I type xsetroot -display 0 -gray it says can't open display '0'?`
`00:13.14`	`Gujiz`	`pipeline it is in separate partition, but should i do something to it ?`
`00:13.14`	`*** join/#debian bob_ (~bob@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4067238.sympatico.ca)`
`00:13.17`	`simonrvn`	`mrwill: that error is a red herring. something else is going on`
`00:13.28`	`stew`	`novem: ":0" not "0"`
`00:13.32`	`novem`	`mount -t vfat /dev/hdd1 /mnt/d mounds fat32 partition on C drive`
`00:13.38`	`bob_`	`hi`
`00:13.38`	`stew`	`err nimb`
`00:13.41`	`thoreauputic`	`nimb: try -display :0`
`00:13.53`	`simonrvn`	`nimb: because it isn't '0' (my mistake) it's what thoreauputic told you to do`
`00:13.54`	`nimb`	`stew: thanks`
`00:13.55`	`bob_`	`what the use for tmpfs monted at /dev/shm ?`
`00:14.07`	`pipeline`	`Gujiz: No. Make sure it's listed in your /etc/fstab.`
`00:14.16`	`stew`	`!tmpfs`
`00:14.16`	`dpkg`	`cd /usr/src/linux/Documentation; grep -r tmpfs *`
`00:14.23`	`*** join/#debian tuxx (~tuxx@0x50a5a424.kd4nxx17.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)`
`00:14.26`	`ahmad`	`why would video/audio flickers this badly??? please help me out`
`00:14.27`	`tuxx`	`evening ppl`
`00:14.39`	`Gujiz`	`pipeline such: /dev/hda2 none swap sw 0 0`
`00:14.40`	`mrwill`	`simonrvn: well, when I try to write to nfs filesystems, the processes go into 'D' (uninterruptible sleep), stuck in an __rpc_execute syscall.`
`00:14.50`	`bob_`	`bash: cd: /usr/src/linux/Documentation: No such file or directory`
`00:14.50`	`bob_`	`!`
`00:14.52`	`*** join/#debian Stevie-Oh (~whatsit2u@pcp05166895pcs.malvrn01.pa.comcast.net)`
`00:14.52`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`i have gas.`
`00:14.53`	`bob_`	`:)`
`00:14.55`	`novem`	`c drive has linux/windows partition, but the d is just fat32, what dev would the d be? ;o(`
`00:14.56`	`pipeline`	`Gujiz: Sure`
`00:15.07`	`tuxx`	`What kernel would u run on a Athlon T-bird and a Duron 700 Mhz.. the standard 386 or the k7 available via apt-get ?`
`00:15.13`	`bob_`	`will somme thing break if i umount it?`
`00:15.14`	`takatumi`	`ahmad: revert back to the old kernel, if it worked for you.`
`00:15.21`	`*** join/#debian lftl_ (~spanky@68.220.222.111)`
`00:15.21`	`*** join/#debian eye69 (magnus@ipv6.upcore.net)`
`00:15.22`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, the k7`
`00:15.26`	`stew`	`takatumi: k7`
`00:15.29`	`stew`	`err`
`00:15.34`	`pipeline`	`tuxx: Honestly, it doesn't matter that much.`
`00:15.35`	`ahmad`	`takatumi, how can i???`
`00:15.36`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants no doubt?`
`00:15.37`	`*** join/#debian TheStar (~thestar@203-219-35-46-nsw.tpgi.com.au)`
`00:15.38`	`mrwill`	`simonrvn: there isn't much to go on in the logs, except the red herring and that the server isn't responding. the server isn't mine, so I can't fiddle with it...`
`00:15.43`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`no doubt`
`00:15.46`	`tuxx`	`pipeline can u explain that?`
`00:15.47`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`I promise`
`00:15.51`	`*** join/#debian afn08351 (~hilfmil@dialup18.afn.org)`
`00:15.56`	`pipeline`	`tuxx: It's not very important.`
`00:15.58`	`mrwill`	`simonrvn: but it used to work reliabliy.`
`00:16.00`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TUxx - dont pay any attention to that.`
`00:16.04`	`TheStar`	`How do I specify a resolution and a refresh? My dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 doesn't seem to have any affect!`
`00:16.13`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, just put on the k7 kernel and be happy.`
`00:16.18`	`ahmad`	`takatumi, how can i revert to an older package????`
`00:16.21`	`tuxx`	`pipeline and MajorPoopyPants I have 386 running now`
`00:16.26`	`AgentK`	`novem: What position on the cables is the second drive?`
`00:16.37`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, you and everyone else who just installed deb`
`00:16.44`	`tuxx`	`what will k7 give me that 386 wont?`
`00:16.52`	`takatumi`	`ahmad: was the old kernel-image removed?`
`00:16.52`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants hehe true`
`00:17.01`	`pipeline`	`tuxx: Some tiny amount of performance.`
`00:17.03`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, have you ever looked at a kernel config?`
`00:17.10`	`stew`	`tuxx: and *extremely slight performance increase`
`00:17.21`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants never - scares the calhooney out of me`
`00:17.36`	`ahmad`	`takatumi: yes, actually it was replaced since it is the same package but different version`
`00:17.51`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, well you should be safe with the k7 kernel - it was made for AMD chips after all`
`00:17.53`	`tuxx`	`stew so it's just for the please of the eyes with the k7-badge?`
`00:18.04`	`mrwill`	`simonrvn: oh well, must be going, this machine can run with two dead processes for now.`
`00:18.17`	`*** join/#debian [Granger] (Ecto@c-205f70d5.033-47-73746f7.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`00:18.18`	`stew`	`tuxx: yes`
`00:18.52`	`*** join/#debian zomtec (~zomtec@p508110CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`00:18.56`	`thoreauputic`	`TheStar: you probably hand edited your XF86Config-4 ? Read the message at the top of that file...`
`00:18.57`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, dont listen to stew`
`00:19.06`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`go and install the k7 kernel and be a man`
`00:19.09`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`sheesh`
`00:19.24`	`tuxx`	`lol`
`00:19.35`	`ahmad`	`takatumi, so how can i revert to the old version?`
`00:19.43`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`seriously theres a REASON its called the k7 version ya know?`
`00:19.45`	`tuxx`	`the k7 applies to both my duron-server and my t-bird desktop?`
`00:19.46`	`ml267`	`MSG dpkg centericq`
`00:19.52`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx - yes`
`00:20.01`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants I'll be a man then... brb`
`00:20.02`	`JaMaLz`	`can i make a file system on my system`
`00:20.08`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`lol good see you in a bit`
`00:20.13`	`JaMaLz`	`i mean a website`
`00:20.28`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, you will have to reinstall nvidia drivers`
`00:20.35`	`Drakh`	`Jamal: If you like, you can run Apache`
`00:20.36`	`*** join/#debian mejo (jonas@mejo.developer.debian)`
`00:20.40`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants just reinstall and not remove it first?`
`00:20.42`	`takatumi`	`ahmad: you would most probably still have the .deb in /var/cache/apt/archives/ , but I don't know the implications of this.`
`00:20.44`	`mejo`	`hi`
`00:20.56`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, it will remove it automatically if you install it again`
`00:21.07`	`mejo`	`how are network devices disabled in shutdown process? i can't find any kill links for /etc/init.d/networking.`
`00:21.18`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`it'll removce your old driver and put a mnew one in`
`00:21.52`	`TheStar`	`thoreauputic: Ahh, found an old copy with that, thanks.`
`00:22.02`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`holey moley theres a monster gas fire in houston`
`00:22.15`	`bob_`	`ther is noting in that tmpfs. why it is not use?`
`00:22.16`	`Drakh`	`houston we have a problem`
`00:22.23`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants okay I'll try it on my desktop as soon as my server runs with k7. What version is the newest of 2.4 - 2.4-k7 or 2.4.27-1-k7 ?`
`00:22.32`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`ARGH`
`00:22.49`	`*** join/#debian samuel (~samuel@host-200-77-160-237.cablevision.net.mx)`
`00:22.50`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`2.4.27-1-k7`
`00:22.58`	`tuxx`	`thnx :)`
`00:22.58`	`*** join/#debian GooZ (~postmaste@3.Red-80-25-124.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`00:22.59`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`but you should go get a sarge daily build`
`00:23.14`	`bob_`	`tuxx, the bigest number are usaly the newest :)`
`00:23.33`	`tuxx`	`bob_ yeah but I was in doubts with this one :-)`
`00:23.48`	`*** join/#debian Fah (mental@paranoia.neverlight.com)`
`00:23.50`	`TheStar`	`I still can't get the X11 to work :/`
`00:23.58`	`samuel`	`ok, i dont know how to look for this, any clue please? im looking for some sort of program that will write the mp3 tag according to the directory its in and the filename it has - ie the opposite of what i can find...`
`00:24.15`	`TheStar`	`It doesn't seem to repect my chose of 1024x768@60Hz`
`00:24.52`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: I suppose they're both just as good/bad ;)`
`00:25.01`	`*** join/#debian veruus (~veruus@ip24-250-238-117.ga.at.cox.net)`
`00:25.15`	`Fah`	`Does rhythembox in sarge support mp3? Is there a lib or plugin I can apt-get that'll let it playback mp3?`
`00:25.36`	`*** join/#debian sun_ (~sun@nata.math.utah.edu)`
`00:25.52`	`*** join/#debian sabin (~Dude@modemcable219.170-80-70.mc.videotron.ca)`
`00:26.13`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`oh wow I ate carls jr today and im makoing more methane than tina turner in mad maxz`
`00:26.35`	`Drakh`	`We don't need another hero`
`00:26.52`	`*** join/#debian comadreja (~comadreja@80.224.109.119)`
`00:26.52`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`you know what, tina turner is super old and i'd still bang her`
`00:26.56`	`*** join/#debian OleMoudi (~tk422@19.Red-83-41-14.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`00:27.04`	`*** part/#debian comadreja (~comadreja@80.224.109.119)`
`00:27.05`	`exobyte`	`I'm looking for a cheap digital camera that has 640x480-ish video. I want decent image quality, but I only need about 5 minutes of record time`
`00:27.26`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`Im looking for an easy hot woman.`
`00:27.31`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`and not paris hilton`
`00:27.34`	`stew`	`yer mom`
`00:27.40`	`TheStar`	`sigh, this is why I bought a TNT2 to use instead of the onboard, but is it possible to use the onboard? (TNT2 burnt out)`
`00:27.54`	`tuxx`	`and when uname corresponds with the k7-badge all is okay and optimized?`
`00:28.00`	`*** join/#debian Sagstuen (~roger@80.239.69.147)`
`00:28.03`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, I had one of those go toast on a friend on mine too`
`00:28.26`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, are you smoking crack? uname -a tell you what kernel youre running`
`00:28.40`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`you have to install the kernel and reboot Sargeant sillypants`
`00:28.47`	`takatumi`	`haha`
`00:28.48`	`ahmad`	`how can i replace a package with an older version???`
`00:29.02`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants nope I just find it hard to believe that it's as easy as apt-get and then reboot :-) but it shows -k7 so it must be aokay`
`00:29.04`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 754] by debhelper`
`00:29.26`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`tuxx, its that easy`
`00:29.29`	`*** join/#debian Pluk (~Pluk@38-71-dsl.ipact.nl)`
`00:29.31`	`Drakh`	`tuxx: Now you're cooking`
`00:29.50`	`tuxx`	`MajorPoopyPants apparently :-) thanks. Now it's my desktops turn`
`00:29.53`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:29.55`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Still, it was the cheapest Vid card I could get my hands on, and it did last about 4 years :)`
`00:29.56`	`tuxx`	`Drakh hehe`
`00:30.04`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, same here`
`00:30.15`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`I gave them a kyro2 to replace it`
`00:30.49`	`TheStar`	`Still, in the mean time, I wish I could get the onboard vid card to work :(`
`00:30.51`	`Drakh`	`admad: man dpkg should cover it`
`00:31.02`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, which onboard card is it`
`00:31.22`	`TheStar`	`I've updated the xserver, so it should work now... :/ (But my issue now is that it's always "out of range" on the monitor - TFT@60Hz)`
`00:31.26`	`*** join/#debian l3m (~l3m@eris.discordia.ch)`
`00:31.41`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Not sure, I think it's a sis card, and it is definitely using the Savage driver.`
`00:31.50`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`weird`
`00:31.55`	`tuxx`	`brb`
`00:32.05`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`sis has its own driver and theyre pretty crappy cards too`
`00:32.08`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`even for onboard`
`00:32.14`	`*** join/#debian big (~fishingin@242838hfc49.tampabay.rr.com)`
`00:32.30`	`*** part/#debian big (~fishingin@242838hfc49.tampabay.rr.com)`
`00:32.43`	`l3m`	`I'm trying to install the latest nvidia drivers, but it always fails since it can't find the kernel-headers-2.6.9-1-686/scripts/Makefile.kbuild ... but i have kernel-headers-2.6.9-1-686 installed... any ideas?`
`00:33.09`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`try installing kernel-source`
`00:33.09`	`l3m`	`there is however, no kernel-headers-2.6.9-1-686/scripts/Makefile.kbuild`
`00:33.18`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Still, I only do 1048x764@60Hz, using no 3D programs.`
`00:33.22`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Should suffice.`
`00:33.25`	`ahmad`	`Drakh: i couldn't find such information, would u please tell me how?`
`00:33.29`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, agreed`
`00:33.48`	`l3m`	`MajorPoopyPants hmm, kernel-headers package worked up to now ( with 2.6.7 and earlier, never had any problems )`
`00:33.51`	`*** join/#debian tgaldame (~tgaldame@201.224.127.142)`
`00:33.59`	`Drakh`	`ahmad: Not done this for a while. Try dpkg remove and then dpkg install xx.deb where xx.deb is the deb file`
`00:34.22`	`Fah`	`so I take it I should rebuild gstreamer plugins to get mp3 support in sound-juicer and rhythmbox`
`00:34.47`	`*** join/#debian tompa (thomas@b506.vildanden.afb.lu.se)`
`00:34.53`	`mwilson`	`l3m: That file shouldn't be necessary. I certainly don't have one.`
`00:35.18`	`mwilson`	`l3m: Not that I'd ever waste time with any of Debian's kernel packages either, but all the same, I don't have one.`
`00:35.50`	`l3m`	`mwilson do you have the 6629 nvidia drivers installed?`
`00:35.50`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: What's amazing me is that dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 still doesn't respect my settings.`
`00:35.57`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Although it's writing the config file now.`
`00:36.00`	`mwilson`	`l3m: At the moment I do.'`
`00:36.08`	`*** join/#debian stoned (ajavid@ip70-177-44-248.br.br.cox.net)`
`00:36.10`	`l3m`	`TheStar read the text on top of /etc/X11/XF86Config-4`
`00:36.19`	`l3m`	`TheStar you manually change XFConfig`
`00:36.22`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, never used it - I just alter the /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 manually`
`00:36.22`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: It's the latest xserver-xfree86, from unstable, (as of a few days ago0`
`00:36.24`	`*** join/#debian b_52globemaster (b_52globem@adsl-110-40-192-81.adsl.iam.net.ma)`
`00:36.36`	`TheStar`	`l3m: It's updating, etc, etc, it just doesn't respect it.`
`00:36.39`	`*** join/#debian Bugalugs (~Dan@c211-30-249-74.farfl1.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`00:36.47`	`TheStar`	`l3m: The resolution and refresh rate, that is.`
`00:36.59`	`mwilson`	`l3m: What sequence of steps are you following?`
`00:37.01`	`*** join/#debian big (~fishingin@242838hfc49.tampabay.rr.com)`
`00:37.02`	`l3m`	`TheStar debian realizes when you've edited XFConfig by hand and doesn't apply and dpkg-reconfigure settings afterwards until you do what's written on top of the XFConfig`
`00:37.09`	`TheStar`	`l3m: The card itself is working now, but it's out of range for the TFT monitor.`
`00:37.09`	`*** join/#debian mirak (~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-38-21.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`00:37.17`	`TheStar`	`l3m: I've done that.`
`00:37.23`	`l3m`	`mwilson well i apt-get install the kernel image + headers and tried to sh NVIDIA-....sh`
`00:37.35`	`TheStar`	`l3m: And then I verified that the dpkg-reconfigure updated the file.`
`00:37.45`	`*** join/#debian restrex (~restrex@200.126.71.246)`
`00:37.46`	`TheStar`	`l3m: Yet it refuses to respect my resolution and refresh.`
`00:37.56`	`*** join/#debian FireEgl (Proteus213@adsl-159-170-114.bhm.bellsouth.net)`
`00:38.06`	`mwilson`	`l3m: Oh. You're doing it that way. Have fun.`
`00:38.07`	`l3m`	`TheStar choose a higher maximal resolution or frequency`
`00:38.12`	`Drakh`	`TheStar: I think it's time to start hitting the computer`
`00:38.16`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, you sure your monitor can handle the res youre trying - and maybe try turning ddc off`
`00:38.16`	`l3m`	`mwilson what would you recommend?`
`00:38.38`	`*** join/#debian pedro (~pedro@DWM-31-21.go.retevision.es)`
`00:38.45`	`mwilson`	`l3m: Actually following the instructions from the Debian nvidia packages is usually a god idea.`
`00:38.55`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: I'm using the native reso and refresh.`
`00:39.05`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`wtf does that mean`
`00:39.10`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`anyhow`
`00:39.13`	`TheStar`	`Drakh: I'm so, so wishing I got a Gigabyte board :/`
`00:39.16`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`try turning off ddc`
`00:39.23`	`l3m`	`mwilson yes i used to do that but it kept installing a kernel module for 2.4 kernels... :/`
`00:39.26`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: TFT screens have a "native" resolution and refresh rate.`
`00:39.27`	`*** join/#debian Stevie-O (~whatsit2u@pcp05166895pcs.malvrn01.pa.comcast.net)`
`00:39.28`	`stoned`	`TheStar, define native resolution/refresh`
`00:39.36`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, ahh, im a crt man here`
`00:39.41`	`stoned`	`TheStar, what is 'native' about it?`
`00:39.42`	`mwilson`	`MajorPoopyPants: They're all small English words.`
`00:39.49`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Which is optimized for the screen (other resolutions are either blurred or blocky)`
`00:39.57`	`*** join/#debian mbirkis (~marius@dsl-37-130.bo.tiscali.no)`
`00:40.03`	`khang`	`Ok, didn't get a reply with my last question, but does "500 OOPS: cap_set_proc" mean anything to anybody here? Getting it from vsftpd when I login`
`00:40.08`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`speak for yourself , my 21" monitor kicks mucho butto`
`00:40.12`	`stoned`	`arn't ALL refresh rate frequencies and resolutions 'native'?`
`00:40.13`	`mwilson`	`l3m: Ah, you mean you followed your own personal version of those instructions rather than the ones that come with the package.`
`00:40.17`	`TheStar`	`stoned: A TFT screen has actual transistors per pixel.`
`00:40.25`	`stoned`	`native to the fucking monitor/card they are on`
`00:40.29`	`initech`	`MajorPoopyPants: just weighs 100 pounds :)`
`00:40.31`	`toresbe`	`MajorPoopyPants: The native res is the resolution where each pixel of resolution corresponds to a LCD pixel`
`00:40.31`	`TheStar`	`stoned: A smaller screen has to use 3 pixels per 'pixel', etc.`
`00:40.32`	`*** join/#debian Gujiz (Gujiz@a193-229-103-161.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`00:40.37`	`mwilson`	`stoned: An LCD is a digital device and thus has a native resolution.`
`00:40.43`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`I dont care ive only had to move the beastly thing once`
`00:40.44`	`stoned`	`themolest, oh lcd`
`00:40.47`	`stoned`	`shoulda mentioned it`
`00:40.53`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`and I want to get a CRT projector`
`00:40.57`	`stoned`	`themolest, TheStar*`
`00:41.01`	`TheStar`	`stoned: I said TFT :)`
`00:41.07`	`TheStar`	`stoned: LCD is crap.`
`00:41.14`	`stoned`	`dude, to me, tft, means The Fury Therein`
`00:41.15`	`stoned`	`:)`
`00:41.20`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`wtf isnt tft lcd?`
`00:41.23`	`mwilson`	`l3m: Like I said, have fun.`
`00:41.37`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Thin Film Transistor compared to Liquid Crystal Display.`
`00:41.37`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: Oh, yeah, because all laptops should use CRT's.`
`00:41.41`	`initech`	`MajorPoopyPants: maybe you should get your klogd to stop logging to the console first :)`
`00:41.51`	`Gujiz`	`is there any good, bnc-script ?`
`00:41.52`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`initech, ??`
`00:41.55`	`stoned`	`maybe i should go drop the kids off at the pool, they are calling me!`
`00:42.04`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: LCD, used by itself, typically refers to the older technology, of mouse trails ;)`
`00:42.12`	`mwilson`	`Gujiz: Is there some reason you think you need to use a bnc?`
`00:42.17`	`initech`	`MajorPoopyPants: you came here with that problem, afaik, unless someone else uses the nick you have`
`00:42.19`	`TheStar`	`Anyway, I'm having no luck here :(`
`00:42.20`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: Wrong agaim.`
`00:42.25`	`khang`	`Does "500 OOPS: cap_set_proc" mean anything to anybody here? Getting it from vsftpd when I login`
`00:42.27`	`Fah`	`is there a channel for debian/gnome?`
`00:42.36`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: LCD nowadays refers to TFT`
`00:42.37`	`stoned`	`Fah, #debian-gnome`
`00:42.43`	`l3m`	`mwilson. thanks, i'm having the time of my life :/`
`00:42.52`	`TheStar`	`toresbe: LCD refers to the newer one as well, in general convo?`
`00:42.54`	`toresbe`	`Fah: #debian-gnome! BELIEVE IT OR NOT! :P`
`00:42.57`	`TheStar`	`toresbe: Cool. TImes change.`
`00:42.58`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: Yes`
`00:42.59`	`stoned`	`or #gnome-debian`
`00:43.02`	`*** join/#debian tuxx (~tuxx@0x50a5a424.kd4nxx17.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)`
`00:43.03`	`Fah`	`stoned: there's nobody there`
`00:43.03`	`Drakh`	`Counterintuitve channel naming`
`00:43.03`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: Fortunately.`
`00:43.07`	`TheStar`	`toresbe: Of course, it could be regional.`
`00:43.12`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: Yeah...`
`00:43.12`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`i lkove my kittens`
`00:43.14`	`*** join/#debian dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-3-9-77.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`00:43.15`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`theyre so sweet`
`00:43.19`	`stoned`	`hey, try a /list gnome`
`00:43.21`	`*** part/#debian Sagstuen (~roger@80.239.69.147)`
`00:43.21`	`stoned`	`:)`
`00:43.30`	`TheStar`	`toresbe: But now everyone here refers to TFT as "flat screen"... To the utter annoyance of PC resellers.`
`00:43.44`	`Fah`	`I did, nothing comes back`
`00:43.45`	`initech`	`MajorPoopyPants: please. kittens? think of the pit bull puppies.`
`00:43.50`	`idnar`	`TheStar: and what do they call "flat" CRTs?`
`00:43.57`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`awww im gonan get a st bernard`
`00:44.00`	`*** join/#debian voltar_ (~voltar@cm-83-97-161-11.telecable.es)`
`00:44.03`	`khang`	`Kittens win`
`00:44.04`	`TheStar`	`toresbe: And customers aren't always excited at getting a CRT, expected a TFT.`
`00:44.08`	`TheStar`	`idnar: A CRT`
`00:44.09`	`*** part/#debian voltar_ (~voltar@cm-83-97-161-11.telecable.es)`
`00:44.15`	`TheStar`	`idnar: They don't realise that they come as flat.`
`00:44.24`	`idnar`	`TheStar: heh`
`00:44.30`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: I have a cool laptop with a plasma display :)`
`00:44.32`	`*** part/#debian bernard (~bernard@bernard.dns6.org)`
`00:44.47`	`TheStar`	`idnar: Infact, they don't really realise the difference between flat CRT and 'regular' CRT`
`00:44.51`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`i need the one that is flat, light, and uses backlighting, I want one that has the screen ok, but the backlighting broken`
`00:44.55`	`SyphonAI`	`is updating gnome 2.6 to 2.8 difficult?`
`00:45.04`	`toresbe`	`SyphonAI: Nopers`
`00:45.07`	`SyphonAI`	`like is there alot involved`
`00:45.25`	`SyphonAI`	`ok, might have to try that once i get these ati drivers built-in`
`00:45.28`	`TheStar`	`So, any more suggestions as to why I can't set my resolution and referesh rate?`
`00:45.37`	`TheStar`	`Or is Savage still broken?`
`00:45.38`	`l3m`	`mwilson ok, now i did everything 1:1 as is usr/share/doc/nvidia-kernel/README.debian .. and now i'm back at the scripts/Makefile.kbuild error message ...`
`00:45.53`	`toresbe`	`SyphonAI: But - I don't think that it's in apt yet`
`00:46.04`	`toresbe`	`!apt sid gnome-terminal`
`00:46.05`	`TheStar`	`(I can display something at 480x360 or some abysimal resolution, but anything higher seems to turn on a higher refresh)`
`00:46.09`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, you need to turn off ddc and adjust it manually in /etc/X11/XF86config-4`
`00:46.21`	`toresbe`	`?apt sid gnome-terminal`
`00:46.22`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: How do I adjust it manually?`
`00:46.24`	`toresbe`	`~apt sid gnome-terminal`
`00:46.28`	`toresbe`	`grr`
`00:46.34`	`toresbe`	`Anyone?`
`00:46.36`	`TheStar`	`I think it's !`
`00:46.51`	`Drakh`	`!sig gnome-terminal`
`00:46.53`	`*** join/#debian doubletwist (~ender@h-68-165-82-164.dllatx37.covad.net)`
`00:46.55`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, you open the file with nano and change the characters.`
`00:47.01`	`*** part/#debian Fah (mental@paranoia.neverlight.com)`
`00:47.04`	`stew`	`!info gnome-terminal`
`00:47.08`	`dpkg`	`gnome-terminal: (The GNOME 2 terminal emulator application), section gnome, is optional. Version: 2.8.0-2 (sid), Packaged size: 1775 kB, Installed size: 7852 kB`
`00:47.11`	`*** join/#debian abrotman (~abrotman@pcp03723050pcs.potshe01.pa.comcast.net)`
`00:47.13`	`bob2`	`skyone is terrible`
`00:47.14`	`stew`	`toresbe: is that what you were trying to do?`
`00:47.15`	`doubletwist`	`Anyone have problems with bug #275536? It says it's fixed, but I'm still having the problem.`
`00:47.16`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Which characters!`
`00:47.25`	`toresbe`	`stew: That's the one :)`
`00:47.26`	`doubletwist`	`K3b isn't recognizing dvd+rw-format and won't find it.`
`00:47.29`	`doubletwist`	`in Sarge`
`00:47.41`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, for christs sake man - find the god damned monitor section`
`00:47.48`	`toresbe`	`!info gnome-terminal sarge`
`00:48.09`	`bob2`	`see`
`00:48.13`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: I often wonder why it never just goes "refresh: 60Hz"`
`00:48.15`	`*** join/#debian LaurenceRowe (~ldr@idea13.plus.com)`
`00:48.25`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheS`
`00:48.26`	`bob2`	`people with nicks like 'majorpoopypants' don't tend to get to boss other's around`
`00:48.30`	`bob2`	`l`
`00:48.30`	`l3m`	`please, anyone. i'm trying to install the latest nvidia drivers ( using nvidia-kernel-source debian package ) and i get an error message that it can't find some files in kernel-headers-2.6.9-1-686/scripts... any ideas ?`
`00:48.32`	`bob2`	`at aol`
`00:48.35`	`dpkg`	`gnome-terminal: (The GNOME 2 terminal emulator application), section gnome, is optional. Version: 2.6.1-6 (sarge), Packaged size: 1619 kB, Installed size: 6996 kB`
`00:48.37`	`khang`	`Does "500 OOPS: cap_set_proc" mean anything to anybody here? Getting it from vsftpd when I login`
`00:48.58`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, you need to open up the fine and look at it. If you arent willing to do that - why are you here?`
`00:49.00`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: Nope, I don't have any of those numbers on the back of my monitor.`
`00:49.11`	`*** join/#debian Handy (~cdeaton@h000c41b7950f.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`00:49.15`	`TheStar`	`I'm in the file.`
`00:49.24`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, wha the hell are you talking about the back of your monitor for?`
`00:49.27`	`TheStar`	`BUt what do I put in for vert refresh and hor refresh?`
`00:49.40`	`TheStar`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:49.42`	`Drakh`	`l3m: Have you tried /msg dpkg nvidia`
`00:49.43`	`TheStar`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:49.48`	`TheStar`	`I'm assuming that those are the values to tweak in the fiel?`
`00:49.51`	`Handy`	`Anyone here given Ubuntu a try?`
`00:49.59`	`tuxx`	`Handy yes previously`
`00:50.09`	`abrotman`	`Handy: #ubuntu`
`00:50.13`	`TheStar`	`On CRT's, those numbers are typically refered to on teh back of hte screen. NOt so with my TFT`
`00:50.20`	`Handy`	`Any opinions?`
`00:50.27`	`abrotman`	`Handy: #ubuntu`
`00:50.29`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, try 28-90 and 43-160 and tell me what happens - dont forget that you can hit ctrl+alt+backspace to exit X is things fux up`
`00:50.39`	`abrotman`	`fux?`
`00:50.40`	*** join/#debian `UD (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)
`00:50.45`	`abrotman`	`what the fuck is that?`
`00:50.50`	`tuxx`	`Handy try #ubuntu but beware... Sarge rules'em all :-)`
`00:50.56`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, its what your mom does for money`
`00:50.57`	`mwilson`	`TheStar: I've met very few CRT's that had those posted on the back. As for your LCD, surely it came with documentation.`
`00:50.59`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`:P`
`00:51.04`	`Gujiz`	`what i should install when psybnc make menuconfig command says this: This needs the curses library. If it is not available, menuconf wont work. make: *** [menuconfig-curses] Error 1`
`00:51.10`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: are you always a fucking idiot?`
`00:51.18`	`Handy`	`Ya, I love sarge, but lack of security patches makes me sad. :(`
`00:51.24`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, yes - I was only messing with you anyhow`
`00:51.37`	`tuxx`	`Handy lack of? Ubuntu wont do ya better then`
`00:51.37`	`abrotman`	`do i look like i care?`
`00:51.40`	`TheStar`	`mwilson: Surely, I'd keep the documentation with me for years? THis is the one area where MS Windows succeeds - hardware!`
`00:51.57`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`if you dont care, why did you ask -= do you have excrement for brains?`
`00:52.00`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: have you tried .. the . gasp .. internet?`
`00:52.01`	`*** join/#debian \|navi\| (~yahiko@201.243.134.129)`
`00:52.12`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: because you use moronic words ... like fux`
`00:52.14`	`*** join/#debian erkki (~erkki@193.12.224.70)`
`00:52.28`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: I don't know what to search for.`
`00:52.28`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: and you seen to be single-handedly lowering the IQ of #debian`
`00:52.30`	`Drakh`	`Gujiz: You need to install a package`
`00:52.32`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, if you dont care why are your panties in a bunch over it?`
`00:52.37`	`Gujiz`	`Drakh what package ?`
`00:52.43`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: maybe .. dunno .. your monitor manufacture / model ?`
`00:52.44`	`erkki`	`I've been having problems with scrollkeeper`
`00:52.48`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, Im not the one throwing a tantrum over a fake word....`
`00:52.51`	`*** join/#debian Aulis (~aliecol@209.161.231.242)`
`00:52.51`	`erkki`	`scrollkeeper-update -q`
`00:52.58`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: i'm not the idiot who used it`
`00:53.00`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: I'll try that.`
`00:53.01`	`erkki`	`segfaults all the time`
`00:53.01`	`nvz`	`~`
`00:53.02`	`*** join/#debian ericb_ (~eric@modemcable234.48-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`00:53.02`	`stew`	`both of you just chill`
`00:53.11`	`abrotman`	`!beer me`
`00:53.12`	`stoned`	`brb`
`00:53.14`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, no, youre the idiot who throws a fit over it.`
`00:53.15`	`abrotman`	`woohoo`
`00:53.20`	`l3m`	`Drakh yes. i get the same error as with the "old" nvidia-kernel-source way and as with using NVIDIA-....-6629.sh .. that is: it can't find /usr/src/kernel-headers-2.6.9-1-686/scripts/gcc-version.sh .. and that file does NOT exist??? but kernel-headers package installed fine`
`00:53.21`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: But, shouldn't putting in the details with the dpkg-reconfigure fix it?`
`00:53.23`	`abrotman`	`blah blah blah`
`00:53.39`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: If I say 60Hz, it should be 60Hz`
`00:53.39`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`whine whine whine`
`00:53.39`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: most modern monitors get probed correctly`
`00:53.44`	`toresbe`	`MajorPoopyPants: A sad thing about #debian is they rate you based on your nick and vocab`
`00:53.53`	`abrotman`	`toresbe: that's a sad thing?`
`00:53.54`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: It is modern, actually.`
`00:54.00`	`Drakh`	`l3m: Is gcc-version.sh part of a package?`
`00:54.00`	`toresbe`	`abrotman: To a degree`
`00:54.04`	`*** join/#debian czedlitz (~czedlitz@ip68-96-15-155.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`00:54.10`	`abrotman`	`oh dear lord`
`00:54.12`	`TheStar`	`*really does suck.`
`00:54.15`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`toresbe, I find the sad thing the emotionally unstable people who throw fits over insignificant thingsa`
`00:54.27`	`abrotman`	`it's not insignificant`
`00:54.34`	`toresbe`	`MajorPoopyPants: Try changing your nick to something less juvenile and not talk scriptie`
`00:54.37`	`*** join/#debian morteoh (~morteoh@cm-84.118.76.100.chello.no)`
`00:54.41`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`no of course not - its the END OF THE WORLD!!!`
`00:54.53`	`*** join/#debian kristian (~kristian@dynadsl-080-228-78-154.ewetel.net)`
`00:55.02`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`toresbe, thats ok, I like my nick and Im not too concerned with other peoples emotional difficulties`
`00:55.03`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: do you like it when people think you're an idiot based on what you type here?`
`00:55.04`	`Handy`	`Tuxx: Sarge sometimes goes unpatched for security issues for a while. But since it isn't advertizes as being so, I can't really to too upset over it...`
`00:55.11`	`toresbe`	`MajorPoopyPants: I hate your nick.`
`00:55.12`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: manuf/model?`
`00:55.21`	`toresbe`	`abrotman: And fux is a word.`
`00:55.23`	`l3m`	`Drakh no. but scripts is a symlink to kernel-headers-2.6.9-1 and scripts there is a symlink to ../kernel-kbuild-2.6-3 which does not exist, even though i installed the kernel-kbuild-2.6-3 package`
`00:55.32`	`abrotman`	`toresbe: in norweigan maybe :)`
`00:55.36`	`*** join/#debian rpetre (~rpetre@82.76.1.167)`
`00:55.38`	`l3m`	`Drakh on a sidenote, it worked fine with 2.6.7 and before`
`00:55.40`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, I dont know - do you like it when people think youre half insane because you go ballistic over a three letter word that isnt even really a word?`
`00:55.44`	`*** join/#debian sTone_heAd (~rudy@200.4.245.241)`
`00:55.54`	`toresbe`	`abrotman: Actually, in Norway, it's a trademarket for glue ;)`
`00:55.57`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: are you saying X doesn't start because your refresh is off?`
`00:56.02`	`tuxx`	`Handy okay :-) But I have more often updates on Sarge than on Ubuntu`
`00:56.06`	`toresbe`	`uh, s/market/mark`
`00:56.14`	*** join/#debian bohan` (bohan@ARennes-203-1-6-176.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr)
`00:56.18`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: guess what .. i don't deny it .. you're the one denying you're an idiot .. i agree i'm half insane`
`00:56.57`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, I dont really put much stock in the half assed opinions of half witted nutball trolls. Sorry.`
`00:56.58`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: X does start.`
`00:57.08`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: However, the monitor doesn't display it.`
`00:57.09`	`toresbe`	`MajorPoopyPants: Oh, stfu.`
`00:57.11`	`Drakh`	`l3m: Just a thought. Can you create the missing directory to fix the link?`
`00:57.18`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`toresbe, yawn`
`00:57.20`	`*** join/#debian volksport (~e@volksport.gallery)`
`00:57.21`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: and how you've proved the theory`
`00:57.21`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Because it is out of range.`
`00:57.31`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: which vid card do you have`
`00:57.32`	`stew`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:57.38`	`stew`	`they're*`
`00:57.38`	`l3m`	`Drakh well i could, but i still would need a script with the corrent return value, no?`
`00:57.38`	`abrotman`	`stew: they're :)`
`00:57.39`	`takatumi`	`what the fux0rs guys? chill`
`00:57.40`	`abrotman`	`damn it`
`00:57.41`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Seems to be an S3 Savage.`
`00:57.43`	`*** part/#debian erkki (~erkki@193.12.224.70)`
`00:57.43`	`stew`	`heh`
`00:57.44`	`volksport`	`question: i would like to install java on my debian box, what is the package name i want for apt-get ?`
`00:57.46`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Onboard.`
`00:57.47`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, now now, dont continue to have your panties in a bunch cause I used those 3 evil letters`
`00:57.50`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: lspci`
`00:57.57`	`toresbe`	`stew: Wow, nice!`
`00:58.02`	`TheStar`	`01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: S3 Inc. VT8375 [ProSavage8 KM266/KL266]`
`00:58.06`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: stop being an ass .. go away ..`
`00:58.11`	`doubletwist`	`Guess`
`00:58.13`	`l3m`	`Drakh i mean, it needs the script not just the dir..anyway, i'm trying it with the whole source package now`
`00:58.18`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`abrotman, you are welcome to use your ignore feature, douchebag.`
`00:58.19`	`*** join/#debian Narg (narg@x128-101-252-25.dialup.umn.edu)`
`00:58.20`	`l3m`	`Drakh thanks anyway :)`
`00:58.23`	`thingfish`	`is there something wrong with a debian user who hangs out in #fedora?`
`00:58.29`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: sarge?`
`00:58.38`	`abrotman`	`thingfish: no .. it's good to learn`
`00:58.39`	`zobel`	`what needs to be done, to get ssh from woody to listen on IPv6 interfaces?`
`00:58.40`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Unstable, yes.`
`00:58.51`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`thingfish, not if they use fedora as well...`
`00:59.01`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Just recently updated the xserver, so the xserver actually starts now.`
`00:59.03`	`Handy`	`thingfish: We've all experimented when we were younger. Just be sure to get it out of your system. :)`
`00:59.04`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 760] by debhelper`
`00:59.12`	`thingfish`	`Handy: lol`
`00:59.14`	`laotse`	`anyone know offhand what line I need to add to my grub menu.lst to mount devfs at boot?`
`00:59.18`	`tuxx`	`lol`
`00:59.19`	`volksport`	`question: i would like to install java on my debian box, what is the package name i want for apt-get ?`
`00:59.26`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: could you ask quickly in #xfree86 if that card is supported in X4.3`
`00:59.29`	`TheStar`	`volksport: apt-cache search java`
`00:59.34`	`volksport`	`did that`
`00:59.34`	`tuxx`	`volksport u'd want not to apt-get it`
`00:59.35`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Sure.`
`00:59.39`	`stew`	`volksport: /msg dpkg install java`
`00:59.40`	`volksport`	`it has like 100 results`
`00:59.46`	`tuxx`	`volksport get the latest engine from sun`
`00:59.47`	`toresbe`	`laotse: That doesn't go in your boot line`
`00:59.56`	`*** join/#debian idoubletwst (~ender@h-68-165-82-164.dllatx37.covad.net)`
`00:59.56`	`l3m`	`volksport you probably want to go and download the sun java linux JRE or JDK`
`01:00.01`	`toresbe`	`laotse: I'd guess it would go in mtab or fstab`
`01:00.04`	`stew`	`volksport: woody or sarge?`
`01:00.08`	`l3m`	`volksport which is not included in debian because of it's restrictive license`
`01:00.10`	`laotse`	`toresbe the docs I was reading said pass it as a kernel option`
`01:00.10`	`volksport`	`i just need java, so i can install saxon and rxp and compile something real quick, i dont care if its stable or anything :D`
`01:00.20`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`yeah I didnt even know there was an apt-get way of installing java`
`01:00.21`	`doubletwist2`	`Ok lets try this again. I apologize if anyone answered, I didn't get to see it...`
`01:00.22`	`l3m`	`volksport java.sun.com`
`01:00.23`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: the driver might have been backported from 4.4`
`01:00.26`	`toresbe`	`laotse: I see...`
`01:00.46`	`doubletwist2`	`Anyone know anything about bug 275536 in sarge? It says its fixed, but it still doesn't work for me.`
`01:00.50`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: It's possible.`
`01:00.51`	`*** join/#debian cga (~chatzilla@as5300-6.216-194-21-134.nyc.ny.metconnect.net)`
`01:00.52`	`doubletwist2`	`k3b doesn't find dvd+rw-tools.`
`01:00.52`	`laotse`	`it says "use the devfs=mount kernel option"`
`01:01.01`	`laotse`	`in the docs in the devfsd package`
`01:01.20`	`laotse`	`and says to add it to your lilo.conf.. only, I'm using grub, not lilo`
`01:01.27`	`stew`	`doubletwist2: did you isntall dvd+rw-tools?`
`01:01.28`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Oh well, stuff it, I'll live without X for a few days.`
`01:01.29`	`toresbe`	`laotse: Oooooohhh`
`01:01.34`	`toresbe`	`laotse: same line`
`01:01.35`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`woohoo the roidheads in baseballs are going down`
`01:01.39`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: http://xfree86.org/4.4.0/savage.4.html .. i don't see your model listed`
`01:01.41`	`doubletwist2`	`stew: yes :) the file is there, but k3b doesn't find it.`
`01:01.42`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`60+ HR a year my ass`
`01:01.44`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Thanks for your help :)`
`01:02.01`	`doubletwist2`	`I even tried a remove -purge and reinstall of both k3b and dvd+rw-tools`
`01:02.03`	`laotse`	`toresbe what would the line be, if you don't mind my asking`
`01:02.04`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: check that doc .. i don't see yours at all .. you may have to compile xorg(or find packages`
`01:02.05`	`abrotman`	`)`
`01:02.06`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Ok, so it's not (really) supported.`
`01:02.08`	`stew`	`doubletwist2: whats the error message you get?`
`01:02.14`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: that's why i said to ask #xfree86`
`01:02.20`	`laotse`	`toresbe does it go on the "boot" line in grub?`
`01:05.48`	`doubletwist2`	`"Unable to find dvd+rw-format executable"`
`01:05.48`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: they will know better than my guessing .. or some lunatics ranting`
`01:05.48`	`doubletwist2`	`lucy32:~# which dvd+rw-format`
`01:05.48`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Thanks :)`
`01:05.48`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, gf4 are really cheap, so are the lower level FX cards`
`01:05.48`	`Handy`	`doubletwist2: I've been having the same stupid problem`
`01:05.48`	`toresbe`	`laotse: You need to find the kopt= line in /boot/grub/menu.lst`
`01:05.48`	`doubletwist2`	`./usr/bin/dvd+rw-format`
`01:05.48`	`Handy`	`doubletwist2: Not that I have any idea how to fix it...`
`01:05.48`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: I really can't afford to pay any more than I have to :(`
`01:05.48`	`toresbe`	`laotse: and edit that, then do update-grub`
`01:05.48`	`doubletwist2`	`well, the bug system says it's fixed, but it's obviously not.`
`01:05.48`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: really .. please ask #xfree86`
`01:05.48`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, whats your vid card budget?`
`01:05.48`	`Handy`	`doubletwist2: Hmph`
`01:05.48`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: if they don't support it .. it won't work in sid .. you may need to find xorg packages`
`01:05.49`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`I'd reccomend an nvidia regardless theyre KEWL!!!`
`01:05.49`	`laotse`	`toresbe thanks`
`01:05.49`	`*** join/#debian Aquel (~Akel@200.77.72.101)`
`01:05.49`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: $80 AUD`
`01:05.49`	`toresbe`	`laotse: No prob`
`01:05.49`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`I dont know AUD`
`01:05.49`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`Im not too up on exchange rates lately`
`01:05.49`	`Aquel`	`Hello All`
`01:05.49`	`*** part/#debian kristian (~kristian@dynadsl-080-228-78-154.ewetel.net)`
`01:05.50`	`toresbe`	`MajorPoopyPants: sigh Allright, kewl is lingua non grata unless spoken with sarcastic intonation.`
`01:05.50`	`TheStar`	`MajorPoopyPants: I think it's 75c USD to AUD`
`01:05.50`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Getting xorg is too much work if I'm getting a new vid card in a few days.`
`01:05.50`	`Aquel`	`Cuestion: Is here a beginners channel?`
`01:05.50`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: But thank you for your help :)`
`01:05.50`	`pmcdonnell`	`I want to do a simple backup of key directories on a computer (/home, /etc, /var) to the harddrive on another box. What's the "best" way to do this? Can anyone recommend any software/docs to look at?`
`01:05.50`	`Aquel`	`I tried to install knoppix`
`01:05.50`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`toresbe, I was saying it intentionally to piss abrotman and yourself off - you two are emotional midgets and you ought to think about getting some pussy or therapy`
`01:05.51`	`Aquel`	`can hellp me`
`01:05.51`	`toresbe`	`Aquel: Yes, but not for knoppix`
`01:05.51`	`doubletwist2`	`Supposedly it work in sid, but I really wanted to stay with sarge until it's released as stable.`
`01:05.52`	`toresbe`	`Aquel: You will get better help in #knoppix :)`
`01:05.52`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: see me stop .. now look at yourself`
`01:05.52`	`nvz`	`pmcdonnell: well if you want to do it right you need to tar it up to perserve permissions`
`01:05.52`	`stew`	`Aquel: /join #knoppix for help with knoppix`
`01:05.52`	`Aquel`	`ok thanks pals`
`01:05.52`	`pmcdonnell`	`MajorPoopyPants, that coming from an IRC user named "MajorPoopyPants"`
`01:05.52`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: But realistically, I don't think exchange rates are that good at guessing prices.`
`01:05.52`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`Yawn`
`01:05.52`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: There's transportation, markup and taxes.`
`01:05.52`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`pmcdonnell, yes.`
`01:05.54`	`l3m`	`doubletwist maybe you0ll also need dvdrtools`
`01:05.56`	`TheStar`	`Oops, sorry abrotman, that was for MajorPoopyPants`
`01:06.04`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: check your local shop .. i'm looking for docs at xorg`
`01:06.20`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, yeah I dont know about getting parts abroad`
`01:06.21`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: You really have done enough work!`
`01:06.31`	`*** join/#debian asuffield (~asuffield@83.216.134.182)`
`01:06.34`	`jvng`	`anyone get their ipod running under debian through usb?`
`01:06.36`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: I'll order one from the city.`
`01:06.55`	`pmcdonnell`	`nvz, so probably just make a tar archive and scp them to the "backup server"?`
`01:07.15`	`*** join/#debian Weems (Weems@cable-24-179-42-90.hvr.al.charter.com)`
`01:07.15`	`doubletwist2`	`l3m I'll give it a try, although if it does, shouldn't it be a dependancy.`
`01:07.18`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: the city?`
`01:07.24`	`nvz`	`pmcdonnell: yeah sounds good.. you can bzip if you are going to scp.. might help on compression`
`01:07.31`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: I live in the country :)`
`01:07.41`	`*** part/#debian Aquel (~Akel@200.77.72.101)`
`01:07.48`	`nvz`	`pmcdonnell: make a .tar.bz2 file`
`01:07.59`	`l3m`	`doubletwist2 probably :) i don't really remember what i did but i had the same problem and solved it installing some additional packages`
`01:08.06`	`pmcdonnell`	`nvz, gzip would probably be faster...`
`01:08.08`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: model again?`
`01:08.14`	`pmcdonnell`	`nvz, I see your point though`
`01:08.24`	`nvz`	`pmcdonnell: yeah, sure would.. but its usually not as good compression`
`01:08.24`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`TheStar, do you have any killer animals where you live? like brown snakes or crocs?`
`01:08.34`	`*** part/#debian Weems (Weems@cable-24-179-42-90.hvr.al.charter.com)`
`01:08.46`	`nvz`	`pmcdonnell: kernel sources are usually like 10mb or so less in bz2, but they decompress faster as gz`
`01:08.54`	`toresbe`	`nvz: I think scp has a -c or -C flag that compresses for you`
`01:09.02`	`nvz`	`toresbe: yeah it does`
`01:09.02`	`*** join/#debian Ugly_Duck (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)`
`01:09.03`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 752] by debhelper`
`01:09.14`	`pmcdonnell`	`nvz, good point - If I set up cron to do this at 0200, it shouldn't matter much anyway.`
`01:09.14`	`toresbe`	`nvz: What does that use?`
`01:09.22`	`nvz`	`toresbe: no idea`
`01:09.39`	`*** join/#debian jp (~jp@marseille-1-62-147-31-48.dial.proxad.net)`
`01:09.55`	`*** join/#debian leandro_pt (~leandro@a213-22-134-84.netcabo.pt)`
`01:09.58`	`toresbe`	`nvz: gzip`
`01:10.07`	`doubletwist2`	`l3ml3m`
`01:10.08`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: how new is this board?`
`01:10.09`	`toresbe`	`nvz: man ssh tells you a fair bit about it`
`01:10.21`	`doubletwist2`	`l3m nope that wasn't it.`
`01:10.32`	`nvz`	`toresbe: I'd rather watch csi than read the ssh manpage right now, heh`
`01:11.03`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`id rather smoke a big fat bowl of killer herb with kif smushed into the top`
`01:11.13`	`nvz`	`toresbe: I am sure there are at least 15 or so other ways in debian to backup, I just though of the most obvious solution`
`01:11.22`	`toresbe`	`nvz: okay`
`01:11.29`	`toresbe`	`nvz: I should start backing up data`
`01:11.34`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: still around?`
`01:11.38`	`*** join/#debian arp (matt@mattm.plus.com)`
`01:12.03`	`l3m`	`doubletwist2 hmm but you do have the dvd+rw-tools (deb) package installed?`
`01:12.36`	`nvz`	`toresbe: on an unrelated note, were you the one sent me the mp3 of that talk radio bit?`
`01:12.40`	`doubletwist2`	`l3m yes it is installed.`
`01:12.43`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: you can perhaps try xorg .. they think it might work with some massaging`
`01:13.18`	`*** join/#debian soid (zoid@200-42-123-140.dup.prima.net.ar)`
`01:13.21`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`rub your computer`
`01:13.24`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`its sore`
`01:13.26`	`*** join/#debian crn__ (~crn@adsl-64-169-116-120.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`01:13.38`	`toresbe`	`nvz: Might be... I have a bad memory`
`01:13.53`	`toresbe`	`Is it time to call ops now...?`
`01:13.59`	`toresbe`	`nvz: bout what?`
`01:14.01`	`nvz`	`toresbe: you cant remember if you were making a talk-radio show or not?`
`01:14.02`	`abrotman`	`why now?`
`01:14.15`	`nvz`	`toresbe: I guess it was debian-related.. I think it was in debian-offtopic`
`01:14.17`	`leandro_pt`	`Is there a "right way" to do power management on laptops?`
`01:14.17`	`toresbe`	`nvz: Oh, the linux news thing!`
`01:14.29`	`l3m`	`doubletwist hmm.. well try burning a dvd, does that work ? ( ignoring the error msg )`
`01:14.36`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`leandro_pt, please let me know how that works out for you`
`01:14.42`	`toresbe`	`nvz: That was me`
`01:14.48`	`abrotman`	`leandro_pt: acpi`
`01:14.52`	`abrotman`	`!acpi`
`01:14.52`	`dpkg`	`somebody said acpi was Advanced Configuration and Power Interface -- a power management interface that gives more control to the BIOS. Details at http://www.teleport.com/~acpi/acpihtml/home.htm, or at http://phobos.fs.tum.de/acpi, or horribly horribly broken, for suspend software check http://sourceforge.net/projects/swsusp/, or patches at acpi.sf.netl.org), or "run this arbitrary code in ring 0"`
`01:15.23`	`*** join/#debian GooZ (~postmaste@3.Red-80-25-124.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`01:15.36`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: there?`
`01:15.40`	`FieldySnuts`	`amen to "horribly horribly broken"`
`01:15.44`	`leandro_pt`	`MajorPoopyPants, abrotman , I have acpi and cpufreqd working fine... mine problem is when i am compiling stuff the computer overheats and shutsdown. It would be nice if it "throttled" the cpu automatically.`
`01:15.55`	`toresbe`	`Is there a bot code to msg a person?`
`01:15.57`	`toresbe`	`!msg me`
`01:15.58`	`dpkg`	`Nobody is going to /msg you. Especially, don't /msg toresbe.`
`01:16.04`	`abrotman`	`heh`
`01:16.04`	`leandro_pt`	`If i do it "by hand" the temperature will drop for a while`
`01:16.05`	`toresbe`	`oh :P`
`01:16.09`	`*** join/#debian Dabian (M0RTEN@62.242.24.181)`
`01:16.10`	`FieldySnuts`	`@lart toresbe`
`01:16.11`	`abrotman`	`toresbe: say /msg ?`
`01:16.16`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`whoah leandro_pt is your computer ok hardwarewise?`
`01:16.31`	`toresbe`	`abrotman: Hmm, no, I don't think that would work`
`01:16.33`	`Dabian`	`ok`
`01:16.36`	`nvz`	`what do you thing tell does`
`01:16.41`	`abrotman`	`!say /msg toresbe bah`
`01:16.41`	`dpkg`	`/msg toresbe bah`
`01:16.44`	`abrotman`	`oh well`
`01:16.46`	`abrotman`	`worth a try`
`01:16.47`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`maybe you ought to get tomeone to put some arctic silver on your cpu or something`
`01:16.53`	`nvz`	`!tell abrotman bah`
`01:16.57`	`leandro_pt`	`MajorPoopyPants, it's been running a little hot (~70C) but both in windows and when i had FC2 it never shutdown from heat`
`01:16.59`	`toresbe`	`!tell me bah`
`01:17.00`	`abrotman`	`MajorPoopyPants: he said it's a laptop`
`01:17.05`	`toresbe`	`!literal tell`
`01:17.05`	`dpkg`	`tell is <reply>use tell to make me tell a factoid to someone, like "apt tell foo about bar"`
`01:17.06`	`Dabian`	`I have a problem ... I cannot connect to this mailserver, from my internetmailserver. I use sendmail in testing of sarge.`
`01:17.13`	*** join/#debian `UD (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)
`01:17.17`	`toresbe`	`!literal tell me`
`01:17.18`	`*** part/#debian Handy (~cdeaton@h000c41b7950f.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`01:17.21`	`toresbe`	`!literal tell $1`
`01:17.21`	`*** join/#debian Novaes_ (~Novaes_@201.1.86.212)`
`01:17.36`	`*** join/#debian helpneeded2 (~max@wbs-146-148-56.telkomadsl.co.za)`
`01:17.55`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`leandro_pt, are you sure your lm_sensors is giving accurate readings? mine was a good 30 degrees over the actual temperature on my athlon2500+ box`
`01:17.58`	`*** join/#debian Nitrocld (peadens@ip68-101-19-71.nc.hr.cox.net)`
`01:18.00`	`*** join/#debian MetalGODin (~DevNull@217.129.143.157)`
`01:18.06`	`*** part/#debian MetalGODin (~DevNull@217.129.143.157)`
`01:18.12`	`*** join/#debian qoreqyas (sgrewe@porn.fnordanien.com)`
`01:18.14`	`leandro_pt`	`i read some stuff about cpudyn (which doesnt seem to support acpi even though it says it does) and a little about laptop_mode`
`01:18.26`	`leandro_pt`	`MajorPoopyPants, lm_sensors doesnt work in most laptops`
`01:18.48`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`how does linux detect CPU temperature on a laptop?`
`01:18.54`	`leandro_pt`	`roadtiger:/etc# cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/temperature`
`01:18.54`	`leandro_pt`	`temperature: 69 C`
`01:19.01`	`leandro_pt`	`:)`
`01:19.02`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`SHEESH`
`01:19.17`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: I had similar problems, are you using a kernel-image?`
`01:19.40`	`*** join/#debian Matt_O (~jb@1667079149-yippy.dsl.xmission.com)`
`01:19.48`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi.. standard debian 686 kernel`
`01:20.08`	`leandro_pt`	`kernel-image-2.6.9.3`
`01:20.10`	`Dabian`	`Noone can help me?`
`01:20.12`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`thats extremely warm`
`01:20.14`	`*** join/#debian JoePenguin (debian@p4.zimage.com)`
`01:20.41`	`abrotman`	`it's not that bad .. depending on the CPU`
`01:20.41`	`*** join/#debian jvn (~jvnguyen@adsl-69-224-225-240.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`01:20.45`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: acpi didn't work well as modules here`
`01:20.54`	`Drakh`	`Dabian: What was your question again?`
`01:21.07`	`Dabian`	`Thats great .. I cannot ask on maillinglist, since mailserver is the problem, and noone here knows anything about why sendmail is blocking port 25 on the other interfaces ... I have some vague suspicions, but they're unconfired as of yet.`
`01:21.16`	`leandro_pt`	`69C is what it normally runs in windows`
`01:21.28`	`Dabian`	`drakh: I have a problem ... I cannot connect to this mailserver, from my internetmailserver. I use sendmail in testing of sarge.`
`01:21.36`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: just to one?`
`01:21.42`	`Drakh`	`Dabian: The problem is outgoing email?`
`01:21.42`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, if i lsmod i get all the regular acpi modules.. battery, fan, ac, asus_acpi, etc.`
`01:21.55`	`Dabian`	`Drakh: Ingoing.`
`01:21.58`	`leandro_pt`	`they appear in /proc/acpi`
`01:22.08`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Well, right now I only have two mailservers.`
`01:22.14`	`MajorPoopyPants`	`so tired`
`01:22.25`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: so one can't talk to the other?`
`01:22.37`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: yup, they load fine, but just didn't work well`
`01:22.48`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: I can't even telnet to port 25 from the other machine.`
`01:23.00`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: firewall?`
`01:23.04`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: iptables?`
`01:23.05`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Locally no problem.`
`01:23.10`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Not firewall.`
`01:23.17`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: sendmail not listening externally?`
`01:23.18`	`*** join/#debian NAVI (WinNT@201.243.134.223)`
`01:23.23`	`*** join/#debian DrJ (~chatzilla@user-0ce2nvi.cable.mindspring.com)`
`01:23.24`	`*** join/#debian avu (~jan@2001:6f8:1296:0:0:0:0:42)`
`01:23.25`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Bingo .. question is why?`
`01:23.37`	`leandro_pt`	`the thing is.. when i compile stuff.. cpu gets really warm and I have to change /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling to T7:87% .. then i see temp drop imediatly and the throttle state start to go back up to 0%.. and it warms up again. Pretty strange`
`01:23.40`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: because the config file is complicated :) .. use postfix`
`01:23.50`	`Drakh`	`Dabian: Or exim`
`01:23.51`	`stew`	`man i didn't think anyone was still using sendmail by choice`
`01:23.55`	`abrotman`	`heh`
`01:24.06`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: postfix and exim sucks .. only sendmail is flexible.`
`01:24.07`	`DrJ`	`i need to learn to set up a debian mail sever... any links to a good tutorial?`
`01:24.07`	`Drakh`	`stew: It's a crazy world`
`01:24.10`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, what difference did u notice when you compiled acpi into the kernel?`
`01:24.18`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: not quite .. i love postfix .. very flexible`
`01:24.19`	`abrotman`	`!u`
`01:24.19`	`dpkg`	`Dammit Jim! It's YOU. Y-O-U. Not U. U is a letter. YOU is a word. See ne1, or wud. Dutch for 'you'. See http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201`
`01:24.29`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Well, actually both exim and postfix rocks, if they fit your needs - they don't fit mine though.`
`01:24.39`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: the machine hasn't shut down due to heat`
`01:24.39`	`caphuso`	`those "non-controversial hot-babe images" posted on debian-devel are definitely phallus symbols`
`01:24.53`	`*** join/#debian mdo (~13h7@p50858A85.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`01:24.57`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: well .. they sell a $60 book on sendmail :)`
`01:25.01`	`stew`	`Dabian: what needs of yours can't be filled by postfix?`
`01:25.12`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, well.. now i just have to compile a kernel while control the temperature so it doesnt shut down!!`
`01:25.13`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: iirc .. sendmail usually does listening by default`
`01:25.14`	`leandro_pt`	`lol`
`01:25.20`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Thaqt would be too old .. since this happened recenty during an upgrade or so.`
`01:25.22`	`leandro_pt`	`control=controlling`
`01:25.40`	`stew`	`Dabian: bts?`
`01:25.59`	`Drakh`	`caphuso: No doubt about it`
`01:26.20`	`Dabian`	`stew: I can't remember which needs sendmail does .. I guess the main point is that postfix tries to keep things simple, and my setup is rather unconventional.`
`01:26.33`	`Dabian`	`stew: Yeah .. I'll check.`
`01:26.47`	`*** join/#debian Zaion (~Zaon@S010600062509d805.gv.shawcable.net)`
`01:27.15`	`*** join/#debian sTone_heAd (~rudy@200.4.245.241)`
`01:27.36`	`acetech`	`what is the debian utility for modprobe?`
`01:27.37`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: postfix does way more than you think ..`
`01:27.41`	`abrotman`	`acetech: modconf`
`01:28.07`	`Zaion`	`hi.. i am new to debian and apt-get.. i wanna know if its possible to update softwares like Kopete or Gaim using apt-get command..`
`01:28.11`	`acetech`	`abrotman, thank you`
`01:28.19`	`*** join/#debian Meltir_ (~Meltir@c2-202.icpnet.pl)`
`01:28.20`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: googled?`
`01:28.26`	`abrotman`	`Zaion: apt-get install kopete`
`01:28.28`	`Dabian`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:28.30`	`*** join/#debian thoreauputic_ (~petros@wolax6-200.dialup.optusnet.com.au)`
`01:28.38`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: how long? and which version?`
`01:28.39`	`*** part/#debian ribrdb (~ribrdb@69.75.208.144)`
`01:29.02`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, quiet a bit`
`01:29.08`	`Drakh`	`Zaion: apt-get can update packages yes`
`01:29.17`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: i don't remember how to do sendmail .. been since my solaris days`
`01:29.18`	`Zaion`	`abrotman: do i need to download it first� or add the line in the /etc/apt/sourcelist`
`01:29.25`	`abrotman`	`Zaion: did you try it?`
`01:29.27`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: I don't recall .. but I'd rather not switch MTA without good reason. Sendmails been around for quite a long time.`
`01:29.31`	`abrotman`	`Zaion: apt-get install gaim kopete`
`01:29.42`	`*** join/#debian amqa (~amca@202.173.198.10)`
`01:29.47`	`Zaion`	`yes but it did something and now Kopete is not in the applications list.. i will go and search for it`
`01:29.54`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: yeah .. it has .. it's good when it works .. horrible to fix when it doesnt`
`01:30.05`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: I dupe that. :)`
`01:30.06`	`abrotman`	`did something?`
`01:30.12`	`l3m`	`Zaion well if you use kde you can just ALT-F2 then type kopete`
`01:30.12`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, most ppl seem to have trouble with fans not turning on and similar stuff. My fans turn on, it's a different problem.`
`01:30.13`	`stew`	`Zaion: apt-get update first`
`01:30.26`	`abrotman`	`Zaion: cat /etc/debian_version`
`01:30.32`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Debian makes it a lot easier to set up though.`
`01:30.46`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: yeah .. i've used sendmail,postfix,qmail,exchange`
`01:30.52`	`abrotman`	`postfix is the best of them`
`01:31.08`	`Drakh`	`!start mailer war`
`01:31.09`	`Dabian`	`Whats great about postfix?`
`01:31.21`	`stew`	`!start a mta war`
`01:31.21`	`dpkg`	`exim is a spam magnet`
`01:31.21`	`Dabian`	`!start mta war`
`01:31.28`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, i've heard a bit about CPUFreq "governors".. do you have any idea what that is?`
`01:31.42`	`Dabian`	`dpkg: You it maaan!`
`01:31.42`	`dpkg`	`i don't know, Dabian`
`01:31.44`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: i guess the better question is .. what doesn't it do that you need .. it's certainly far easier to configure :)`
`01:31.45`	`Stevie-O`	`Dabian: it can be used to construct any mathematical expression without the use of parentheses`
`01:31.59`	`Zaion`	`abrotman: its says testing/unstable`
`01:31.59`	`caphuso`	`Stevie-O: heh`
`01:32.02`	`*** join/#debian scruffy (~scrfy@nc-67-76-97-107.sta.sprint-hsd.net)`
`01:32.14`	`abrotman`	`Zaion: no it doesn't`
`01:32.14`	`*** join/#debian alamar (alamar@2001:6f8:9b8:3:0:0:0:1)`
`01:32.29`	`Zaion`	`huh`
`01:32.36`	`abrotman`	`Zaion: are you on sid?`
`01:32.46`	`Dabian`	`Stevie-O: Postfix? Or OPN?`
`01:32.50`	`abrotman`	`stew: what does your debian_version say?`
`01:33.12`	`Dabian`	`Hmm .. not OPN in english, I guess.`
`01:33.12`	`*** join/#debian b_52globemaster (b_52globem@adsl-41-44-192-81.adsl.iam.net.ma)`
`01:33.25`	`caphuso`	`Dabian: RPN`
`01:33.33`	`*** join/#debian PEDRO (~TELECO@80.26.174.29)`
`01:33.36`	`Dabian`	`Stevie-O: (* 2 (+ 1 1)) == 4.`
`01:33.37`	`*** join/#debian joh_ (~joh@cD9088834.sdsl.catch.no)`
`01:33.41`	`Zaion`	`woody`
`01:33.47`	`Zaion`	`i dont know.. may be its sid`
`01:33.48`	`abrotman`	`i'm pretty sure both sarge and sid now say 3.1`
`01:33.52`	`caphuso`	`Dabian: that's prefix`
`01:33.54`	`Dabian`	`caphuso: Yeah .. Reverse == Omvendt :)`
`01:34.10`	`caphuso`	`Dabian: "2 1 1 + *" is postfix`
`01:34.13`	`Dabian`	`caphuso: (2 2 +) != 4`
`01:34.34`	`abrotman`	`i might have to start watching cricket`
`01:34.36`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, this seems helpful: http://gandalf.ics.uci.edu/~haldar/lamp/cpu-freq/user-guide.txt`
`01:34.40`	`Drakh`	`Strike one`
`01:34.43`	`*** join/#debian Ugly_Duck (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)`
`01:34.49`	`abrotman`	`!baseball`
`01:34.49`	`dpkg`	`Confuscious say, "Baseball not true. Man with four balls CANNOT walk."`
`01:34.59`	`Dabian`	`I close down this computer, and look over the mailingproblem tomorrow.`
`01:35.02`	`abrotman`	`nope .. just not the same`
`01:35.13`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: can you even telnet localhost 25 ?`
`01:35.20`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: Yeah`
`01:35.24`	`Dabian`	`thats the strange part`
`01:35.32`	`Dabian`	`a dead sendmail I could understand.`
`01:35.48`	`*** join/#debian elements (elements@elements.hack.se)`
`01:35.49`	`*** join/#debian jake (~jake@218-101-48-209.cable.paradise.net.nz)`
`01:35.49`	`imnes`	`how can I list all currently installed packages?`
`01:35.53`	`caphuso`	`imnes: dpkg -l`
`01:35.55`	`abrotman`	`the sendmail file should have an obvious place for that .. but knowing sendmail .. it's probably like O$%=JRKKT`
`01:35.59`	`Dabian`	`abrotman: I am not to happy about it, since I reckon I've allready gotten 10+ mails bounced.`
`01:36.16`	`*** part/#debian Zaion (~Zaon@S010600062509d805.gv.shawcable.net)`
`01:36.32`	`Dabian`	`sleep will do me good, I guess.`
`01:36.37`	`abrotman`	`never!`
`01:36.41`	`*** join/#debian chrchr (~rc@sub21-110.member.dsl-only.net)`
`01:36.50`	`Dabian`	`Thanks for trying to help me .. its encuraging.`
`01:36.52`	`Vegar`	`What's hotplug-firmware?`
`01:37.02`	`Drakh`	`That's what we're here for`
`01:37.05`	`*** join/#debian goedson (~goedson@201008162145.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
`01:37.08`	`abrotman`	`Dabian: tomorrow .. you'll probably find it in 2 seconds :)`
`01:37.30`	`caphuso`	`Vegar: support for uploading firmwire into devices when a hotplug event for them happens`
`01:37.53`	`Vegar`	`does it affect the device itself?`
`01:37.58`	`*** join/#debian jcataldo (~jcataldo@200.120.162.164)`
`01:38.38`	`caphuso`	`Vegar: no, it's just done because it makes the kernel hackers look cool...`
`01:38.48`	`*** join/#debian ixi-deb05 (~UserName@62.84.110.152)`
`01:38.51`	`abrotman`	`is there such a thing?`
`01:38.52`	`ixi-deb05`	`hi`
`01:38.54`	`Drakh`	`caphuso: Yeah, I'd go with that`
`01:38.55`	`jake`	`has anyone here tryed to compile the lirc modules on a 2.6 kernel? When i do a "ake-kpkg --revision Custom.1 modules_image", i get errors such as "Makefile:370: /usr/src/linux/Rules.make: No such file or directory" What sort of thing can i google for to find out how to do it? I am really tempted to just compile the lirc modules by hand....`
`01:38.57`	`abrotman`	`other than alan cox`
`01:39.16`	`Vegar`	`caphuso: So it doesn't mess with the device's firmware?`
`01:39.42`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: that is from the kernel-source Documentation directory, there is a governors.txt as well.`
`01:39.56`	`*** join/#debian ChrysalisM (~asdf@pcp01742832pcs.forhls01.nm.comcast.net)`
`01:40.02`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: The board is a few years old.`
`01:40.12`	`ixi-deb05`	`What is the name of grpahic viewer which I use at home? :) Stupid question, i know... sorry. But i'm sure its name was like 'gkview' or somehting... Can't find it in apt-cache search :( Help please`
`01:40.14`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: if all else fails, compile it in the freezer :)`
`01:40.20`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: But really, it's getting to be too much trouble.`
`01:40.20`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: really? .. xorg said it's not explicitly supported by them either ...`
`01:40.27`	`jake`	`Vegar, I was under the impression that the firmware uploading erally does put bits into the device you just plugged in. :)`
`01:40.28`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: google a bit ...`
`01:40.31`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: I think it's SIS brand.`
`01:40.41`	`jake`	`ixi-deb05, gqview?`
`01:40.53`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: On Monday, I will order a video card. On Wednesday, I'll plug it in and use it.`
`01:40.57`	`thoreauputic`	`ixi-deb05: gqview`
`01:41.06`	`*** join/#debian renzo_ (~renzo@pD9E14C9B.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:41.12`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: I am not going to be spending hours and hours setting up a temporary card.`
`01:41.15`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: ok .. up to you .. but if you say it's old .. can't believe it's not supported`
`01:41.26`	`*** join/#debian The_Ultimate_Sam (austin@ip-citznet-64-184-5-114.citznet.com)`
`01:41.26`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Yeah, I was quite surprised too.`
`01:41.29`	`caphuso`	`Vegar: uh, it puts the firmware into that device, so yes, there might be a small chance that it actually affects it`
`01:41.34`	`*** join/#debian draven_ (draven@62.101.194.41)`
`01:41.37`	`Vegar`	`I see`
`01:41.44`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: But it sucks that I can't even use a dual-monitor setup with the onboard as a console :/`
`01:41.45`	`ixi-deb05`	`jake, thoreauputic: thank you! yes it is :))`
`01:41.48`	`caphuso`	`Vegar: e.g. by making sure that the device actually has a firmware`
`01:41.59`	`jake`	`Vegar, what sort of device is it?`
`01:42.02`	`caphuso`	`which, without uploading it, wouldn't be the case`
`01:42.04`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: (Bios turns it off when vid card is plugged in)`
`01:42.13`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: ask #xfree86 .. i still can't believe you can't use it`
`01:42.14`	`Vegar`	`jake: WLAN NIC`
`01:42.18`	`simonrvn`	`@kill BIOS`
`01:42.27`	`jake`	`Vegar, even the drivers on winblows does this`
`01:42.48`	`Vegar`	`Ok, great`
`01:43.03`	`jake`	`Vegar, I dont know why the firmware is uploaded to the device, but its probably a god reason.`
`01:43.16`	`Vegar`	`Good`
`01:43.17`	`*** join/#debian Virusmaster (~Thomas@p5091B2A6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:43.19`	*** join/#debian `UD (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)
`01:43.24`	`Vegar`	`so no worries about the warranty then?`
`01:43.27`	`caphuso`	`jake: to make it work`
`01:43.28`	`*** part/#debian goedson (~goedson@201008162145.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
`01:43.40`	`caphuso`	`without the firmware it wouldn't be able to do shit`
`01:43.40`	`*** join/#debian karsten (~karsten@host-66-81-219-176.rev.o1.com)`
`01:43.58`	`Drakh`	`jake: firmware is like bios`
`01:43.59`	`jake`	`caphuso, ? I meant i dont know why it uplaods the friware, as opposed to having the firmware on the device all the time`
`01:44.09`	`jake`	`Drakh, I know what firmware is`
`01:44.14`	`jake`	`:)`
`01:44.16`	`*** join/#debian jager (jag@user-12l23pi.cable.mindspring.com)`
`01:44.44`	`Drakh`	`jake: Then my work is done!`
`01:44.47`	`caphuso`	`jake: probably cheaper`
`01:45.12`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, it will melt my icecream! :P`
`01:45.15`	`jake`	`Vegar, dunno. I dont think you could break it by uploading dodgy firmware anyways`
`01:45.24`	`jake`	`caphuso, good .`
`01:45.32`	`jake`	`caphuso, point`
`01:45.39`	`*** part/#debian amqa (~amca@202.173.198.10)`
`01:45.44`	`*** join/#debian USMarine (~bla@83.132.63.158)`
`01:45.50`	`jager`	`does anyone here happen to have the scanner firmware file for a lexmark x73? sane won't run without it, and i can't find it anywhere`
`01:45.51`	`*** join/#debian gabaug (~gabe@cs6820647-232.houston.rr.com)`
`01:45.55`	`*** join/#debian lancey (Shady@213.137.48.2)`
`01:45.57`	`lancey`	`hi guys`
`01:45.58`	`jake`	`Vegar, if it does, just dont tell the retailer you broke it on linux :)`
`01:46.02`	`lancey`	`where is debian's mkinitrd?`
`01:46.05`	`lancey`	`i can't seem to find it?`
`01:46.27`	`abrotman`	`!find mkinitrd`
`01:46.28`	`caphuso`	`jake: probably part of the windows driver, try to rip it out from there`
`01:46.29`	`dpkg`	`Debian Package Listing of 'mkinitrd' (2 shown): bootcd-mkinitrd ;; mkinitrd-cd.`
`01:46.31`	`abrotman`	`!tell lancey about search`
`01:46.34`	`jager`	`/usr/sbin/mkinitrd?`
`01:46.44`	`Vegar`	`jake: I have the right to change my mind about buying it, so I'll just use that.`
`01:46.45`	`lancey`	`jager: nopez`
`01:46.55`	`*** join/#debian draven__ (draven@62.101.194.41)`
`01:46.57`	`abrotman`	`!find mkinit`
`01:46.59`	`dpkg`	`Debian Package Listing of 'mkinit' (2 shown): bootcd-mkinitrd ;; mkinitrd-cd.`
`01:47.04`	`jake`	`caphuso, the wlan nic i use has its firmware ripped from the winblows driver for sure`
`01:47.15`	`jake`	`Vegar, coolies`
`01:47.35`	`lancey`	`abrotman : i don't seem to have these`
`01:47.42`	`abrotman`	`install them?`
`01:47.46`	`jager`	`that's where mkinitrd is on my sarge system lancey`
`01:47.49`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: you are TheStar !!`
`01:47.58`	`Vegar`	`Do you think 150MHz would be enough for a wireless AP and router? (Debian, 2.6 kernel)`
`01:48.00`	`lancey`	`apt-cache search mkinitrd gives me nothing`
`01:48.03`	`abrotman`	`!find mkinitrd sarge`
`01:48.04`	`dpkg`	`Debian Package Listing of 'mkinitrd' (2 shown): bootcd-mkinitrd ;; mkinitrd-cd.`
`01:48.09`	`lancey`	`it's woddy, though`
`01:48.12`	`lancey`	`*woody`
`01:48.13`	`jake`	`Vegar, HEAPS That would be heaps`
`01:48.28`	`*** join/#debian jake_ (~jake@218-101-48-209.cable.paradise.net.nz)`
`01:48.54`	`TheStar`	`Vegar: My adsl modem isn't even that fast.`
`01:49.10`	`Vegar`	`So I can set up some extra services too? Like bind9 and Apache?`
`01:49.15`	`thoreauputic`	`!find mkinitrd woody`
`01:49.21`	`dpkg`	`mkinitrd-cd: (Creates an initrd image suitable for booting from a live CD-ROM), section admin, is extra. Version: 0.19 (woody), Packaged size: 871 kB, Installed size: 1164 kB`
`01:49.23`	`chrchr`	`Vegar: Yeah. That should be plenty.`
`01:49.31`	`Vegar`	`awesome`
`01:49.41`	`TheStar`	`Vegar: May want to limit yourself to static web pages, or at least precompiled webpages`
`01:49.42`	`chrchr`	`Vegar: Just don't plan on playing MP3s on it in real-time.`
`01:49.55`	`Vegar`	`chrchr: Damn`
`01:50.01`	`Vegar`	`chrchr: That was my plan`
`01:50.08`	`TheStar`	`Vegar: Infact, it's RAM that's the bigger issue.`
`01:50.17`	`TheStar`	`Vegar: How much RAM Do you have?`
`01:50.20`	`Vegar`	`hmm`
`01:50.28`	`*** join/#debian holycow (~yada@S0106002078ccd651.vf.shawcable.net)`
`01:50.28`	`pmcdonnell`	`Is there a way to make the date command print out a formatted date other than today's? IE, get the YYYY-MM-DD format of yesterday's date?`
`01:50.34`	`leandro_pt`	`takatumi, this will keep me relaxed :) # while : ; do sleep 10 && echo 6 > /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling ; done`
`01:50.44`	`Vegar`	`TheStar: Let me check. I'm not sure.`
`01:50.50`	`*** join/#debian jacky18 (~jacky18@022.c.003.mel.iprimus.net.au)`
`01:50.52`	`jake_`	`150 mhz is plenty for playing mp3s`
`01:50.57`	`abrotman`	`pmcdonnell: -d ?`
`01:51.01`	`leandro_pt`	`now i'm going for a smoke... without worrying about kernel compilation overheating my laptop :)`
`01:51.01`	`TheStar`	`jake_: In real time?`
`01:51.11`	`takatumi`	`leandro_pt: good luck.`
`01:51.27`	`jake_`	`i had a k5 133 which would play 4 192 kb/sec cbr at once using mpg123`
`01:51.35`	`jake_`	`TheStar, absolutly`
`01:51.58`	`abrotman`	`a 486 can't play mp3s :)`
`01:52.03`	`jake_`	`TheStar, absolutly in real time`
`01:52.16`	`jacky18`	`hi`
`01:52.25`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Depends on the 486. Those with PCI busses and DX4 are very powerful beasts.`
`01:52.37`	`abrotman`	`TheStar: DX2/66 .. can't do it`
`01:52.43`	`Vegar`	`TheStar: It has a total of.. 95004`
`01:52.51`	`TheStar`	`abrotman: Ahh, those are pathetic in comparison ;)`
`01:52.58`	`jake_`	`abrotman, i wasnt aware they made 150 mHz 486's. I had a 120 mHz 486....`
`01:52.59`	`pmcdonnell`	`abrotman, ah! thanks... But, is there a way to figure out the string for, say, yesterday's date. Like (Seconds since epoch)-(606024) or something?`
`01:53.00`	`TheStar`	`Vegar: May be able to get away with all that, then.`
`01:53.00`	`abrotman`	`yeah .. well . it was what i had`
`01:53.07`	`jager`	`i have played mp3s on a 486dx100 though`
`01:53.13`	`veruus`	`I had a 386 S[u]X back in high school`
`01:53.15`	`*** part/#debian thingfish (~mark@dialup-4.245.45.214.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net)`
`01:53.15`	`veruus`	`it was crap`
`01:53.16`	`abrotman`	`jake_: no .. 120Mhz was the highest 486 i khnow of`
`01:53.20`	`Vegar`	`What if I find some RAM for my awesome K6-2 400?`
`01:53.22`	`*** join/#debian jacky18 (~jacky18@022.c.003.mel.iprimus.net.au)`
`01:53.32`	`toresbe`	`There was a 133 mhz 486, iirc`
`01:53.32`	`TheStar`	`CLock for clock, a 486 is faster than Pentium.`
`01:53.35`	`*** join/#debian Pakal (~manuel@201.135.201.121)`
`01:53.43`	`nevyn`	`abrotman: amd had some 150's? or something equally ridiculous.`
`01:53.43`	`toresbe`	`TheStar: Er, no...`
`01:53.48`	`Drakh`	`pmcdonnell: I would just use the current output and change it with awk`
`01:53.50`	`nevyn`	`TheStar: no...`
`01:53.51`	`abrotman`	`nevyn: kind of`
`01:54.04`	`TheStar`	`They're system bus was a bit slow in comparison... But in terms of pure CPU...`
`01:54.05`	`jager`	`i think amd made a 486 that ran at 150`
`01:54.08`	`jacky18`	`hi...I have a question about shring internet.`
`01:54.08`	`TheStar`	`*Their`
`01:54.09`	`pmcdonnell`	`Drakh, never thought of that... how would you go about it?`
`01:54.12`	`jager`	`the PR150 or something?`
`01:54.31`	`jake_`	`jacky18, DONT SHRING THE INTERNET EVER`
`01:54.38`	`TheStar`	`nevyn: I'd rather a 100MHz 486 to a 100MHz Pentium.`
`01:54.48`	`*** join/#debian jms (jms@host-24-225-168-4.patmedia.net)`
`01:54.54`	`TheStar`	`nevyn: But, I"d probably prefer a 200MHz pentium to a 486 easily.`
`01:55.09`	`*** join/#debian dli (~tst@anna-bhat.uchicago.edu)`
`01:55.15`	`Drakh`	`pmcdonnell: You can make awk act on its input like a C program. So, it can subtract 1 from the day, and all the rest.`
`01:55.16`	`nevyn`	`TheStar: I'd rather have a 200mhz ppro to either of the above.`
`01:55.25`	`_kaz`	`Ok.. I just installed debian and it installed Gnome AND Kde... but it set gnome as the default for some reason. Is there a way to switch to KDE? Or to just load KDE so I can check it out?`
`01:55.34`	`TheStar`	`nevyn: I wasn't talking about ppro's, though was I? ;)`
`01:55.38`	`*** join/#debian yhg (~yhg@pool-68-160-151-198.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`01:55.41`	`nevyn`	`:)`
`01:55.49`	`jms`	`What debian package can I use to save the contents of a video DVD to hard-drive?`
`01:55.57`	`pmcdonnell`	`Drakh, thanks, I'll look into that.`
`01:56.03`	`TheStar`	`_kaz: Take a look at that dialog when you login.`
`01:56.16`	`TheStar`	`_kaz: Some time before you hit enter.`
`01:56.45`	`veruus`	`vlc?`
`01:56.47`	`_kaz`	`err... I didn't see any dialog. I just started with startx`
`01:56.51`	`veruus`	`wait`
`01:56.52`	`veruus`	`not that`
`01:56.55`	`veruus`	`sorry`
`01:57.13`	`TheStar`	`_kaz: Oh, ok. YOu'll have to manually setup your .xinitrc if you go that route.`
`01:57.19`	`*** join/#debian mikerichardson (~mikericha@user-0cetkgc.cable.mindspring.com)`
`01:57.38`	`sean_micken`	`how do i intstall a single "unstable" pkg?`
`01:57.40`	`mikerichardson`	`ted you in here?`
`01:57.50`	`_kaz`	`thestar: actually it was setup to use gdm (?) but there was a problem with my xfree86 settings so it had to disable something and then I fixed the problmes.`
`01:58.02`	`*** join/#debian Blissex (~Blissex@gigaflop.demon.co.uk)`
`01:58.14`	`TheStar`	`_kaz: Then restart /etc/init.d/gdm`
`01:58.48`	`jms`	`I've tried to simply cp the files from the DVD, but there is always a failure. Why, and how can I avoid that?`
`01:59.10`	`Drakh`	`sean: Have you considered downloading the deb file and using dpkg?`
`01:59.12`	`TheStar`	`jms: You'll need a little more info.`
`01:59.53`	`jms`	`TheStar; what info can I ive that will help?`
`01:59.54`	`_kaz`	`ah I See.. this GDM lets me select which desktop environment I want. Perfect.`
`02:00.31`	`*** join/#debian heviarti (heviarti@blackops.bigskytel.net)`
`02:00.37`	`TheStar`	`jms: Well, just telling us that "cp /mnt/dvd/file.txt ./" doesn't work doesn't give us much to work with...`
`02:00.45`	`jacky18`	`hi ppl. Can anyone help me with a question on internet sharing?`
`02:00.46`	`jacky18`	`i have a modem connected to internet and I want to share my internet to my another pc (on windows) connected to my pc over a network (cross-over)`
`02:01.12`	`TheStar`	`jacky18: Install, read and configure shorewall`
`02:01.16`	`*** join/#debian whatever (~nate@node-423a25da.det.onnet.us.uu.net)`
`02:01.39`	`TheStar`	`jacky18: Better yet, have a spare 486 lying around?`
`02:01.43`	`soften`	`jacky18, or if you just want web access, install squid`
`02:01.48`	`TheStar`	`jacky18: And please refrain from /msg`
`02:01.55`	`*** join/#debian Mehmet (MeLoDi@62.162.14.34)`
`02:02.00`	`toresbe`	`I want to make an AMP 486 computer`
`02:02.01`	`*** part/#debian mikerichardson (~mikericha@user-0cetkgc.cable.mindspring.com)`
`02:02.08`	`toresbe`	`With a custom mobo`
`02:02.22`	`whatever`	`can anyone suggest a how-to or method to setup up a way for users to auto-start their own background processes on system startup? ....something like .autostart in home directory?`
`02:02.26`	`Blissex`	`jacky18: there are very nice HOWTOs on sharing an internet connection.`
`02:03.04`	`_kaz`	`The latest KDE deb is 3.2.2?`
`02:03.13`	`epictetus`	`whatever: cron`
`02:03.22`	`Drakh`	`insane - I like it`
`02:03.41`	`whatever`	`epictetus: cron?`
`02:03.47`	`epictetus`	`whatever: they should have startup scripts run from cron, not exactly what you're asking for but similar`
`02:03.52`	`epictetus`	`cron being the scheduler`
`02:03.56`	`epictetus`	`that's how it's normally done`
`02:04.00`	`*** join/#debian kev_ (~kev@CPE-65-31-94-181.wi.rr.com)`
`02:04.01`	`whatever`	`epictetus: ah`
`02:04.17`	`Blissex`	`jacky18: as someone said, use a nice firewall generator and enable masquerading/NAT.`
`02:04.23`	`epictetus`	`it's not exactly "on startup", its at a specified interval that will hapen at startup and other times`
`02:04.28`	`jms`	`Ah, ok. Well, I said I was trying to copy files from a movie DVD to my harddrive. So, let me get the error message I get when I do cp /dvd/VIDEO_TS/* .`
`02:04.31`	`kev_`	`Hrm... what do you look for to get your screen in a higher resolution... i have "1280x1024" as the first option in the XFree config...`
`02:04.32`	`Blissex`	`jacky18: also, make sure you enable forwarding on the gateway machine.`
`02:04.35`	`TheStar`	`jacky18: PLEASE stop /msg`
`02:04.43`	`kev_`	`its going to the 1024x768 mode which is the second opition`
`02:04.44`	`soften`	`jacky18, do NOT msg me again please`
`02:04.47`	`jacky18`	`ok`
`02:04.50`	`whatever`	`epic: do you know if its possible for "cron" to do a search of all users home directories to execute startup scripts for each found?`
`02:04.52`	`Blissex`	`jacky18: and yes, don't MSG people even to say thanks...`
`02:05.07`	`epictetus`	`but processes like that (the only one that comes to mind is Eggdrop) have pretty standard ways to do it`
`02:05.21`	`whatever`	`hm`
`02:05.30`	`epictetus`	`whatever: well you could do that but that's kinda weird, usually each user would just do their own crontab`
`02:05.41`	`Blissex`	`whatever: the opposite happens....`
`02:05.50`	`*** join/#debian darkstar (~darkstar@darkstar.user)`
`02:05.50`	`jacky18`	`ok`
`02:05.51`	`epictetus`	`the normal way to do it is for each user to just have their own crontab`
`02:05.55`	`*** join/#debian Mehmet (~oLeneDeK@62.162.14.40)`
`02:05.59`	`whatever`	`now I'm confused. ^_^`
`02:06.00`	`TheStar`	`jacky18: When enough people /msg, it gets rather annoying closing 100+ windows and teh like.`
`02:06.09`	`*** part/#debian lancey (Shady@213.137.48.2)`
`02:06.09`	`whatever`	`I thought there was just one crontab. hah`
`02:06.19`	`jms`	ok, for each file in the VIDEO_TS directory, the error is: cp: reading `/dvd/VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB': Input/output error How can I avoid this?
`02:06.20`	`epictetus`	`ah no cron is multi-user`
`02:06.22`	`whatever`	`I'll have to research up on it`
`02:06.27`	`whatever`	`hmm, interesting.`
`02:06.28`	`TheStar`	`jacky18: ettequit states that you ask in channel for permission.`
`02:06.41`	`TheStar`	`whatever: There are three major versions.`
`02:06.54`	`epictetus`	`each user can have their own crontab`
`02:06.57`	`jacky18`	`TheStar: ettequit?`
`02:06.59`	`TheStar`	`whatever: I believe www.linuxfromscratch.com has a bit.`
`02:07.05`	`Drakh`	`etiquette`
`02:07.06`	`TheStar`	`jacky18: Probably misspelt, but nevermind that.`
`02:07.09`	`kev_`	`hrm`
`02:07.11`	`TheStar`	`Drakh: Thanks :)`
`02:07.19`	`whatever`	`thestar, epictetus: awesome, thanks guys`
`02:07.20`	`jacky18`	`TheStar: ah..... got it`
`02:07.20`	`kev_`	`wonder if it has something to do with the horz / vert settings`
`02:07.26`	`jacky18`	`Drakh: Thanks :D`
`02:07.37`	`TheStar`	`kev_: What are you talking about?`
`02:07.50`	`*** join/#debian Kane32 (~jojo@pD9E99B06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`02:07.53`	`epictetus`	`kev: make sure HorizSync and VertRefresh match your monitor's specification`
`02:08.28`	`kev_`	`hrm`
`02:08.35`	`epictetus`	`kev: then fix the Modes lines in the Screen subsection of your XF86Config to have whatever modes you want. if they're normal modes it'll use VESA`
`02:08.37`	`soften`	`your monitor's specification are helpfully most likely printed on a sheet which came in a box with your monitor and was immediately discarded once the monitor came on and started working.`
`02:08.52`	`whatever`	`thestar: its .org fyi, .com didn't like me`
`02:09.00`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: bullshit, linux supports orders of magnitude more hardware than any mac os`
`02:09.03`	`TheStar`	`whatever: Oops :)`
`02:09.10`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: You know what I mean.`
`02:09.15`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: no, I don't.`
`02:09.15`	`soften`	`Guerin, but in a pathetic way, is the point`
`02:09.24`	`whatever`	`^_^`
`02:09.27`	`*** join/#debian tuxx (~tuxx@0x50a5a424.kd4nxx17.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)`
`02:09.38`	`soften`	`other operating systems support less hardware, but they recognize it and work with it without saying "ok, remind me again, what were we doing?"`
`02:09.39`	`epictetus`	`whatever: its pretty easy`
`02:09.40`	`jms`	`TheStar: were those last two questions I asked better? Is there something more that would help?`
`02:09.44`	`epictetus`	`the user just writes a crontab`
`02:09.44`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: bullshit, linux supports orders of magnitude more hardware than any version of windows, as well`
`02:09.47`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: You can install windows on a PC, and all the hardware will just work.`
`02:09.50`	`epictetus`	`man crontab for the file format`
`02:09.54`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: will it?`
`02:10.03`	`whatever`	`epictetus: oh, geez, ok. lol`
`02:10.05`	`czedlitz`	`does apt-get allow for searching for packages?`
`02:10.10`	`Jebediah`	`TheStar: what drugs are you on?`
`02:10.12`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: Sure, you dno't exactly install it on an IBM Power5, but then, that's not what people use it for.`
`02:10.17`	`epictetus`	`and then submit the crontab to cron with the "crontab" command`
`02:10.21`	`*** join/#debian tuxpy (~tuxpy@216.250.207.21)`
`02:10.22`	`jager`	`yeah TheStar i don't find that to be the case at all`
`02:10.24`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: irrelevant.`
`02:10.29`	`TheStar`	`Jebediah: Well, I'll return the computer if it doesn't work with windows.`
`02:10.43`	`Aulis`	`does anybody here use arson to burn CD's?`
`02:10.44`	`epictetus`	`whatever: then whatever commands you put in the crontab will be executed as that user, on whatever schedule you specified`
`02:10.53`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: that doesn't change the fact that it didn't work.`
`02:10.54`	`TheStar`	`czedlitz: Yes, use "apt-cache search pkg_name" though.`
`02:11.00`	`*** join/#debian TealHare (~anonymous@82.65.118.153)`
`02:11.01`	`epictetus`	`whatever: the tricky part is if you're trying to start something that isn't designed to work as a service`
`02:11.02`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: You are missing my point.`
`02:11.08`	`whatever`	`epictetus: awesome, 'exactly' what I need.`
`02:11.14`	`epictetus`	`whatever: because crontab really only lets you run a command over and over`
`02:11.19`	`*** part/#debian TealHare (~anonymous@82.65.118.153)`
`02:11.21`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: which, if you've ever run hardware that's wildly pre- or post- your version of windows, you'll have experienced.`
`02:11.30`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: no. You're not making the point you think.`
`02:11.37`	`Guerin`	`!swym`
`02:11.37`	`dpkg`	`well, swym is Say What You Mean. See also MWYS.`
`02:11.39`	`epictetus`	`whatever: so you need to run instead of the command, some script that checks "is it running or do I need to start it", then does the appropriate thing`
`02:11.40`	`whatever`	`epic: erm....don't quite follow you on that last bit`
`02:11.49`	*** join/#debian cRaZyGirL`kafayi (~banuuu@62.162.14.11)
`02:11.50`	`whatever`	`epic: ah.`
`02:12.03`	`epictetus`	`you know`
`02:12.08`	`whatever`	`epic: thats the 'same' thing as a script that would go in init.d, correct?`
`02:12.10`	`epictetus`	`like if you wanted to start a server of some kind`
`02:12.13`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: Your thinking in terms of purely correct and technical points of view.`
`02:12.16`	`epictetus`	`whatever: not exactly`
`02:12.17`	`soften`	`The point is this: essentially, giving any modern operating system other than linux a random video card/chipset and a random monitor results in something between a usable display and a perfectly configured display. not a black screen of linux sucks at configuring video hardware.`
`02:12.22`	`epictetus`	`whatever: but close`
`02:12.22`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: I'm thinking in terms of a customer point of view.`
`02:12.37`	`kev_`	`ok let me try these`
`02:12.40`	`kev_`	`brb`
`02:12.43`	`whatever`	`epic: ooor, is it a recursive script that runs every x seconds?`
`02:12.45`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: And you don't even have to run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 to do it`
`02:12.47`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: I'm thinking in terms of 11:07:57 * TheStar is constantly reminded how Linux's hardware support is pathetic compared to Windows and Mac.`
`02:12.59`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: irrelevant distinction`
`02:13.06`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: Heck, even if windows really, really can't use the monitor, it'll boot in VGA mode.`
`02:13.07`	`epictetus`	`hah`
`02:13.13`	`TheStar`	`Oops, vid card I mean.`
`02:13.22`	`jms`	why would cp give this error when trying to copy from a DVD; this does not occur when copying from a CD.... cp: reading `/dvd/VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB': Input/output error
`02:13.23`	`whatever`	`thestar: indeed`
`02:13.27`	`*** join/#debian terr1_ (terr1@D40A46B4.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`02:13.44`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: That, even that is more useful than nothing.`
`02:13.48`	`epictetus`	`and if linux really, really can't use the video card, you can boot a kernel with a VESA framebuffer driver and fbdev X driver and it works on any PC videocard whatsoever`
`02:13.50`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: what you OUGHT to have said, if you meant that, was that people think linux has poor hardware support because it sometimes requires more work to get things working`
`02:14.07`	`jager`	`9 cases out of 10 when some fool reinstalls windows, they have to call someone (ie me) to help them get the drivers woking properly`
`02:14.13`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: oh, and linux never boots in vga mode if it can't figure out the video card`
`02:14.15`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: And what I'm saying is that LInux really, really shouldn't require more configuration.`
`02:14.18`	`*** join/#debian jesus_ (jesus@200.44.226.7)`
`02:14.19`	`jager`	`i don't see how that's any different than linux`
`02:14.24`	`epictetus`	`and can get you better color modes and resolution and stuff than "PCI VGA adapter" in windows`
`02:14.29`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: A poorly configured system is better than no configuration.`
`02:14.32`	`terr1_`	`Somehow I dont have /dev/dsp and /dev/mixer interface devices, I know I need to use mknod? but what numbers to use and stuff are thoes diffrent from each computer or? if so where do I find them`
`02:14.44`	`epictetus`	`TheStar: Knoppix does that`
`02:14.51`	`epictetus`	`it depends on your distribution`
`02:14.52`	`Drakh`	`I do love these OS fights. Now where is the popcorn?`
`02:14.55`	`epictetus`	`debian doesn't`
`02:14.57`	`soften`	`I keep meaning to change "vesa" to "mga" in my XF86Config-4 but keep forgetting`
`02:15.00`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: how can it not? When you support orders of magnitude more hardware than the OSen you're comparing it to, something has to tell it what hardware to use`
`02:15.01`	`*** join/#debian Nurbs (tom@pD95F9FD1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:15.12`	`TheStar`	`epictetus: Knoppix is nice. for that reason. I can't believe why it isn't incorporated into Debian.`
`02:15.25`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: and have you ever booted a linux box which didn't give you a prompt?`
`02:15.25`	`*** join/#debian kev_ (~kev@CPE-65-31-94-181.wi.rr.com)`
`02:15.28`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: I'm not exactly using x86 compiled programs on the mac, am I?`
`02:15.28`	`kev_`	`Hello`
`02:15.31`	`kev_`	`it worked`
`02:15.31`	`tuxx`	`Hmm my newly installed Sarge on the server wont power off when halting.`
`02:15.39`	`kev_`	`re-adjusted the vert / horz ranges`
`02:15.43`	`jager`	`so is it linux's hardware support that sucks or just debian's, TheStar? what point are you really trying to make?`
`02:15.44`	`tuxx`	`what could be wrong? All worked with Mandrake :-/`
`02:15.50`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: I don't know. How is this relevant.`
`02:15.53`	`Guerin`	`?`
`02:15.54`	`The_Ultimate_Sam`	`...this is an odd problem...the english and english comentaries of my file work but the japanese track does not (on xine however it works on mplayer)`
`02:16.05`	`whatever`	`tuxx: acpi needs to be compiled into your kernel`
`02:16.07`	`TheStar`	`jager: In general, Linux distributions suck.`
`02:16.08`	`epictetus`	`thestar: well I for one don't want to run through 5 minutes of bullshit hardware detection every time I boot`
`02:16.12`	`Drakh`	`kev: And that made Linux get the resolution right?`
`02:16.15`	`tuxx`	`whatever I've apt-get'ed it`
`02:16.25`	`TheStar`	`epictetus: NOt every time you boot.`
`02:16.29`	`kev_`	`Drakh: Yeah the ranges werent really off that much but its good now`
`02:16.34`	`whatever`	`tuxx: um, as far as I know, it needs to be IN the kernel`
`02:16.35`	`tuxx`	`but it works flawless on my dekstop. that's weird to me`
`02:16.51`	`jms`	`So, is there some methos besides cp I should use to get these files from DVD onto hard-drive?`
`02:16.52`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: my only poihnt is that you need to say what you mean, not what just presume that people will understand your moronic "customer-centred" perspective`
`02:16.52`	`The_Ultimate_Sam`	`i dont know why it dosent work on xine`
`02:16.53`	`whatever`	`tuxx: hm, I compile me own kernel, I don't use the debian binaries for the kernel`
`02:17.07`	`tuxx`	`whatever I've never touched a kernel that way.`
`02:17.08`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: Some things aren't easily explained in English.`
`02:17.10`	`*** join/#debian veleno (~ervalerio@213-140-6-119.fastres.net)`
`02:17.18`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: you've provided a fabulous example of just what exactly is wrong with personal computing in this day and age.`
`02:17.18`	`*** join/#debian xammu (~xammu@pD9E1F736.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:17.20`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: You need higher-level communication.`
`02:17.20`	`soften`	`One thing I mean is this: denying that video configuration is a problem is unlikely to result in improvement.`
`02:17.22`	`The_Ultimate_Sam`	`it can playback mkv and i have had success in playing japanese tracks in xine`
`02:17.26`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: that's true, but this isn't one of them.`
`02:17.26`	`*** join/#debian PlatSajack (~platsajac@c-24-130-89-7.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`02:17.28`	`tuxx`	`whatever do u know how to implement it?`
`02:17.43`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: Anyway, I gotta clean my room.`
`02:17.48`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: And I mean that literally.`
`02:17.59`	`*** join/#debian novem (novem@c-24-126-27-128.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`02:18.01`	`whatever`	`tuxx: ...wish I did. my only experience is through making my own. :(`
`02:18.08`	`Drakh`	`thestar: make clean?`
`02:18.17`	`tuxx`	`whatever okay`
`02:18.18`	`novem`	`can anyone help? how can i figure out what device xawtv is using, (or what device my webcam is)`
`02:18.24`	`TheStar`	`Drakh: I wish`
`02:18.32`	`*** part/#debian tuxpy (~tuxpy@216.250.207.21)`
`02:18.55`	`TheStar`	`Drakh: Although I once got my (Very, very young) sister to clean it for two pieces of chocolate ;)`
`02:18.57`	`Drakh`	`I guess twinkling is your strong point`
`02:18.58`	`*** join/#debian VolVE (~abc@h0030ab04c826.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`02:19.03`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 746] by debhelper`
`02:19.08`	`TheStar`	`twinkling?`
`02:19.15`	`soften`	`send your sister here, this place is trashed and I have plenty of chocolate`
`02:19.19`	`Drakh`	`twinkle twinkle little star`
`02:19.19`	`jager`	`hehe`
`02:19.24`	`TheStar`	`Ahh, of course :)`
`02:19.30`	`novem`	`could anyone tell me how to find out what device xawtv is using?`
`02:19.40`	`TheStar`	`soften: Nah, she's never done it again :(`
`02:19.46`	`soften`	`oh. figures.`
`02:19.48`	`jms`	`Is there somewhere good I can read about moving DVD files to hard-drive with debian?`
`02:19.52`	`*** join/#debian crosis (~crosis@sub29-194.member.dsl-only.net)`
`02:20.02`	`soften`	`jms if you can't cp from a disc, it`
`02:20.07`	`soften`	`jms if you can't cp from a disc, it's likely a problem with the disc`
`02:20.11`	`Drakh`	`jms: Search debian user mailing list archives?`
`02:20.29`	`novem`	`how can I figure out what device my webcam is?`
`02:20.31`	`jms`	`soften: I get this error with every dvd I have tried`
`02:20.40`	`soften`	`oh.`
`02:20.44`	`jms`	`but not with CD`
`02:20.46`	`asuffield`	`you can't do it just with stuff in Debian anyway. you need a copy of libdvdcss`
`02:20.47`	`kev_`	`hrm`
`02:21.02`	`jager`	`why do i suddenly get the feeling that doing a dist-upgrade to sid from inside gnome was a bad idea?`
`02:21.06`	`*** join/#debian aaronluke (~aaronluke@dl-f211c-u0421726.uel.ac.uk)`
`02:21.16`	`Drakh`	`jager: call it a hunch`
`02:21.22`	`kev_`	`What is the gnome mixer to download for sound`
`02:21.29`	`jms`	`Drakh: I'll try that....`
`02:21.32`	`jager`	`my mouse just died`
`02:21.36`	`jager`	`so yeah, a hunch :P`
`02:21.39`	`Guerin`	`kev_: gnome-alsamixer`
`02:21.44`	`novem`	`ouch xf86config?`
`02:21.44`	`Guerin`	`heh`
`02:21.44`	`kev_`	`thansk`
`02:21.55`	`jms`	`asuffield: was that for me about libdvdcss?`
`02:22.01`	`Guerin`	`it's all those annoying subsystems named after animals`
`02:22.17`	`*** join/#debian tina (tina@tina.user)`
`02:22.24`	`terr1_`	`Somehow I dont have /dev/dsp and /dev/mixer interface devices, I know I need to use mknod? but what numbers to use and stuff are thoes diffrent from each computer or? if so where do I find them`
`02:22.30`	`kev_`	`Let me restart X`
`02:22.31`	`kev_`	`brb`
`02:22.37`	`novem`	`how do i figure out what device like dev/?? my webcam is`
`02:22.48`	`jms`	`does no one else move files from a movie DVD to their hard-drive?`
`02:22.50`	`asuffield`	`terr1_: those are symliks`
`02:22.53`	`asuffield`	`s/liks/links/`
`02:22.59`	`tina`	`which flash player works with the mozilla in testing?`
`02:23.10`	`Drakh`	`jms: Not me. Sorry`
`02:23.27`	`toresbe`	`novem: Usually video0`
`02:23.28`	`novem`	`ehh my question must be really simple or stupid. ;o/`
`02:23.41`	`toresbe`	`novem: You can do cat /deb/video0`
`02:23.45`	`toresbe`	`novem: You can do cat /dev/video0*`
`02:23.56`	`*** join/#debian HuntsMan (~hunts@CM-lflo3-118-148.cm.vtr.net)`
`02:24.14`	`imnes`	`I can't figure out where "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86" is writing it's config to...`
`02:24.17`	`imnes`	`it's not /etc/X11`
`02:24.24`	`The_Ultimate_Sam`	`what would cause 2/3 audio tracks to play on xine and only the one that does not work on xine to work on mplayer and how can i make it play on xine`
`02:24.32`	`tina`	`abrotman: you 'round?`
`02:24.40`	`novem`	`alright,`
`02:24.40`	`novem`	`ile try that thanks.`
`02:24.40`	`novem`	`k`
`02:24.42`	`imnes`	`anybody know where it goes?`
`02:25.29`	`tina`	`imnes: unless you mucked with your XF86Config-4 manually, that d-r should change it.`
`02:25.42`	`novem`	`Error in opening video capture device: No such file or director ;o(`
`02:25.43`	`*** join/#debian EduardoBastos (~Eduardo@201-011-215-016.pltce7002.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`02:25.47`	`terr1_`	`asuffield, how do I create them so they work then?`
`02:26.02`	`imnes`	`hmm I screwed it up so I deleted it I thought this would recreate it. It's storing settings somewhere though because when I ran it a second time it knew my previous settinkgs still.`
`02:26.03`	`whatever`	`thanks again guys, later`
`02:26.26`	`jms`	`asuffield: thank you. looks like libdvdcss is what i need. There's no debian package, though?`
`02:26.31`	`jager`	`mmm`
`02:26.39`	`tina`	`imnes: nope. read the docs in that package. it'll tell you what you have to do to get it to recreate your config`
`02:26.40`	`jager`	`dist-upgrade complete!`
`02:26.52`	`jager`	`let's reboot and see how badly things are broken now :)`
`02:26.55`	`Drakh`	`<fanfare>`
`02:27.06`	`jager`	`bbl`
`02:27.13`	`imnes`	`ok thanks`
`02:27.15`	`*** join/#debian orospakr (~orospakr@209-195-116-51.c0.ac1.otton1.isp.cyberus.ca)`
`02:27.16`	`*** part/#debian scruffy (~scrfy@nc-67-76-97-107.sta.sprint-hsd.net)`
`02:27.21`	`novem`	`could anyone tell me why hasciicam shows a black image but xawtv shows my cam image fine?`
`02:27.23`	`jms`	`TheStar: no X question here`
`02:27.42`	`TheStar`	`jms: Not by you...`
`02:27.45`	`*** join/#debian Potheadx (~kaktus@pD956F18E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`02:27.55`	`jms`	`TheStar: no X question here`
`02:28.00`	`*** join/#debian tina (tina@tina.user)`
`02:28.06`	`abrotman`	`tina: yes .. why?`
`02:28.10`	`jms`	`TheStar: oops. not by me is what i meant by 'here'`
`02:28.14`	`tina`	`abrotman: don't remember me?`
`02:28.20`	`abrotman`	`tina: vaguely .. why?`
`02:28.26`	`TheStar`	`jms: I know.`
`02:28.28`	`abrotman`	`tina: you're Rez's friend`
`02:28.31`	`abrotman`	`right?`
`02:28.35`	`TheStar`	`jms: I'm not Guerin, you know ;)`
`02:28.40`	`tina`	`well, not quite. again.`
`02:28.46`	`abrotman`	`huh?`
`02:28.51`	`*** join/#debian ChrysalisM (~asdf@pcp01742832pcs.forhls01.nm.comcast.net)`
`02:28.53`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: wtf?`
`02:28.54`	`abrotman`	`you're not his friend?`
`02:28.59`	`tina`	`I'm Rez.`
`02:29.01`	`novem`	`could anyone help me with hasciicam?`
`02:29.03`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 740] by debhelper`
`02:29.06`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: are you referring to the fact tat I like to not talk shit?`
`02:29.06`	`abrotman`	`tina: again?`
`02:29.10`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: That was to be taken light-heartedly.`
`02:29.14`	`abrotman`	`tina: you're doing this on purpose aren't you? :)`
`02:29.15`	`tina`	`I'm messing with her computer again`
`02:29.20`	`novem`	`ehh are there any other help channels?`
`02:29.26`	`abrotman`	`tina: ah`
`02:29.36`	`TheStar`	`novem: WHat is hascilicam?`
`02:29.37`	`*** join/#debian five (~fhs@pool-162-84-182-62.ny5030.east.verizon.net)`
`02:29.38`	`Guerin`	`novem: no, thiss is the only one in the whole multiverse.`
`02:29.50`	`Guerin`	`!shoot Guerin's typist`
`02:29.56`	`novem`	`Guerin, save the sarcasm. I'm not interested.`
`02:30.04`	`tina`	`trying to figure out why all the flash players seem to lock up mozilla 1.7.3 in testing`
`02:30.11`	`jms`	`I've lived a sheltered life and pretty much exclusively use apt-get install ..... how do I best eal with something that has no debian package such as http://freshmeat.net/projects/libdvdcss/ ?`
`02:30.13`	`novem`	`Hasciicam.dyne.org = webcam program to display captured image in ASCII.`
`02:30.14`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: novem meant that he wanted names...`
`02:30.18`	`abrotman`	`tina: does it lock up firefox too?`
`02:30.18`	`*** join/#debian Bombo (bombo@p548515F1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:30.23`	`simonrvn`	`'cause flash sux`
`02:30.26`	`Guerin`	`novem: ask a meaningful question`
`02:30.29`	`abrotman`	`tina: and did you try a newer flash?`
`02:30.32`	`Guerin`	`!yesorno`
`02:30.32`	`dpkg`	`http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/questions-with-yes-or-no-answers.html`
`02:30.59`	`TheStar`	`novem: That's interesting, but I doubt many people have actually got experience, so you'll have to explicitly say what your problem is.`
`02:31.02`	`tina`	`abrotman: newer than what the nonfree installer installed?`
`02:31.09`	`novem`	`Guerin, I asked for other help channels, Please define meaningfull?`
`02:31.24`	`abrotman`	`tina: i usually get from macromedia.com ..`
`02:31.35`	`TheStar`	`novem: Well, if you want to waste about 15 min, try /list yes`
`02:31.37`	`novem`	`I'm having trouble, Xawtv shows my cam image just fine, however, hasciicam doesnt seem to.`
`02:31.38`	`stoned`	`how do I find out where my mozilla plugins directory is, I need to issue this command ln -s /usr/java/j2re1.4.2_01/plugin/i386/ns610-gcc32/libjavaplugin_oji.so and I tried dpkg -L mozilla-firefox but I can't seem to to find the system wide firefox plugins directory, I also looked in about:plugins but it doesn't state the dir path`
`02:31.42`	`Guerin`	`novem: no, you asked if any others existed, to which which you must surely have known the answer.`
`02:31.47`	`TheStar`	`novem: But I wouldn't type that.`
`02:32.08`	`TheStar`	`novem: So, the realistic question was which ones.`
`02:32.21`	`novem`	`I'm new to irc, how do you ignore users?`
`02:32.30`	`Drakh`	`use /ignore`
`02:32.33`	`novem`	`thanks`
`02:32.36`	`TheStar`	`novem: However, nobody here has any experience with that particular program, so we can't really suggest any.`
`02:32.48`	`stoned`	`!firefox java`
`02:32.54`	`stoned`	`well it was worth a shot`
`02:33.02`	`novem`	`Thanks TheStar, I'm assuming that It's trying to grab from an incorrect device, could that be the case?`
`02:33.11`	`Drakh`	`novem: Can only make general suggestions like check the docs, search google`
`02:33.20`	`TheStar`	`novem: There is nobody here that is irritating yet, once you get to know IRC, you'll meet some major hotheads.`
`02:33.27`	`tuxx`	`hmm ... insmod apm power_off=1 solved my power off problem.`
`02:33.32`	`novem`	`I just got out of hasciicam docs, and v4l :o)`
`02:33.48`	`TheStar`	`novem: It's possible, but without any error messages, we can't say. Google is a major resource, though.`
`02:34.00`	`novem`	`Yeah Iv'e ben googling all day man.`
`02:34.16`	`stoned`	`does anyone know where the firefox plugins directory is?`
`02:34.16`	`*** join/#debian jager (jag@user-12l23pi.cable.mindspring.com)`
`02:34.20`	`jager`	`wow`
`02:34.24`	`abrotman`	`tina: did you try with firefox?`
`02:34.24`	`tina`	`abrotman: I've new respect for firefox. it just took care of the plugin install and it works.`
`02:34.25`	`jager`	`that was completely painless`
`02:34.34`	`abrotman`	`tina: ah .. but mozilla still borked?`
`02:34.35`	`TheStar`	`stoned: Take a look in .firefox`
`02:34.40`	`Guerin`	`stoned: yes, someone knows`
`02:34.43`	`abrotman`	`tina: maybe remove .mozilla ?`
`02:34.57`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: that directory doesn't exist; ideally if you didn't know, you wouldn't guess`
`02:35.00`	`*** join/#debian Bac9 (~Bac9@216.26.116.213)`
`02:35.06`	`jms`	`is there a debian package for firefox yet?`
`02:35.11`	`takatumi`	`stoned: try /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins`
`02:35.14`	`novem`	`if i wer to use the command hasciicam -d --devicename, what would I put as devicename? could I use xawtv to find the devicename?`
`02:35.19`	`Guerin`	`jms: there has been since ~ 0.6`
`02:35.23`	`abrotman`	`!info mozilla-firefox sarge`
`02:35.29`	`*** join/#debian bighead (~bighead@68-174-95-243.ucwphilly.rr.com)`
`02:35.30`	`dpkg`	`mozilla-firefox: (lightweight web browser based on Mozilla), section web, is optional. Version: 1.0-2 (sarge), Packaged size: 9224 kB, Installed size: 26480 kB`
`02:35.34`	`stoned`	`ok`
`02:35.35`	`stoned`	`thanks`
`02:35.39`	`jms`	`thanks`
`02:35.41`	`stoned`	`that worked`
`02:35.43`	`Bac9`	`is there an imap server which can be configured to store mail in a particular subfolder or is the location of the inbox files dictated by the imap protocol?`
`02:35.45`	`pmcdonnell`	`Anyone know if network cards exist using the PCI-Express which support Linux?`
`02:35.47`	`stoned`	`takatumi, :)`
`02:36.00`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: There should be some directory that has a name "plugins" or something in .firefox.`
`02:36.02`	`abrotman`	`pmcdonnell: #linux ?`
`02:36.09`	`takatumi`	`stoned: :)`
`02:36.14`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: So, once found, it'd be obvious.`
`02:36.19`	`Guerin`	`TheStar: the debian packages use ~.mozilla/firefox/`
`02:36.28`	`Guerin`	`not ~/.firefox`
`02:36.28`	`TheStar`	`Guerin: Oh, ok then :)`
`02:37.07`	`stoned`	`Guerin, thats per user settings if its resing in each users home`
`02:37.36`	`stoned`	`i was looking for the system wide mozillafirefox plugins dir and takatumi told it, im there and i see the java.blah.so file`
`02:37.39`	`stoned`	`thanks`
`02:37.39`	`novem`	`if video and video0 under /dev/ are the defaults for my cam? why are they empty. me=ooops.`
`02:37.55`	`tina`	`abrotman: just did that, still borks. on the firefox installed version of the flash player even. I think moz is going away now :)`
`02:37.57`	`Guerin`	`stoned: yeah, no shit.`
`02:37.57`	`tuxx`	`hmm how do I get Sarge to use insmod apm power_off=1 on every boot?`
`02:38.04`	`Guerin`	`stoned: all settings should be per-user`
`02:38.06`	`bighead`	`how do I check if gnome-about-2.8.x has made it into Debian "testing"?`
`02:38.08`	`*** join/#debian bwlang (~bwlang@bb-66-55-211-238.gwi.net)`
`02:38.15`	`*** join/#debian bni_ (~bni@c-2b4a73d5.03-1055-767374101.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`02:38.24`	`Guerin`	`bighead: /msg dpkg gnome2.8`
`02:38.26`	`*** join/#debian mlewis00 (hidden-use@gnat.tctwest.net)`
`02:38.35`	`useruser`	`bighead: packages.debian.org should help`
`02:38.44`	`*** join/#debian melanie (~melanie@blk-215-103-228.eastlink.ca)`
`02:39.02`	`Vegar`	`Is prism54 in APT?`
`02:39.17`	`_kaz`	`there isn't a package for firefox?`
`02:39.20`	`useruser`	`Vegar: packages.debian.org should help`
`02:39.21`	`Guerin`	`Vegar: isn't that a kernel module?`
`02:39.25`	`useruser`	`_kaz: packages.debian.org should help`
`02:39.28`	`Guerin`	`_kaz: of course there is.`
`02:39.34`	`Guerin`	`useruser++`
`02:39.35`	`Vegar`	`Guerin: There are usually packages for those too.`
`02:39.39`	`_kaz`	`thats what I thought ... it doesn't find any there though.`
`02:39.52`	`bighead`	`useruser: how quickly is packages.debian.org updated?`
`02:39.55`	`bighead`	`daily?`
`02:39.59`	`useruser`	`bighead: no idea`
`02:40.05`	`useruser`	`bighead: often enough for me :)`
`02:40.05`	`*** join/#debian LittleDan (~LittleDan@roc-66-66-13-211.rochester.rr.com)`
`02:40.36`	`Guerin`	`!katie`
`02:40.36`	`dpkg`	`it has been said that katie is who I seek to emulate, or the daemon in the Debian archive system that processes new packages and inserts them into the archive. It runs at 1952 UTC daily. the women.kde.org mascot, or 166.82.1.7`
`02:40.36`	`*** join/#debian rastaval (evil@203.215.73.98)`
`02:40.43`	`Drakh`	`bighead: I have never heard of it falling behind`
`02:40.44`	`_kaz`	`err ok... how would I install the firefox package then?`
`02:40.50`	`Bac9`	`is there an imap server which can be configured to store mail in a particular subfolder or is the location of the inbox files dictated by the imap protocol?`
`02:40.55`	`_kaz`	`(I don't see one here, but I'm a debian newbie)`
`02:41.04`	`Guerin`	`_kaz: apt-get install <name of firefox package once you've found it>`
`02:41.14`	`Guerin`	`_kaz: apt-cache search firefox`
`02:41.21`	`*** join/#debian Kepplar (~aa79@raptor.ukc.ac.uk)`
`02:41.52`	`bighead`	`Drakh: ok thanks`
`02:41.55`	`*** join/#debian bryndza (zilla@hron.fei.tuke.sk)`
`02:41.58`	`*** part/#debian LittleDan (~LittleDan@roc-66-66-13-211.rochester.rr.com)`
`02:42.20`	`Guerin`	`bighead: read the bit about katie, above. It gets updated daily.`
`02:42.42`	`useruser`	`Bac9: I'd be surprised if you couldn't configure that on an imap server`
`02:43.16`	`bryndza`	`Hi, is there any possibility ti use netkit-ftp forr automatic upload/download/listing through sheel, something like ncftp (ncftpput/ncftgget/ncftpls) ?`
`02:43.30`	`Bac9`	`useruser: and which imap server in debian actually has a config file? none that I've tried (only trried a few) sugestions?`
`02:43.42`	`useruser`	`Bac9: i don't know, i don't run one actually`
`02:43.42`	`Vegar`	`courier-imap`
`02:44.03`	`simonrvn`	`Bac9: uh, i know of cyrus and courier through personal experience, and they both do...`
`02:44.14`	`*** join/#debian shingouz (~not-me@20-19.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi)`
`02:44.14`	`Bac9`	`Vegar: any other? (I am a bit afraid to try courier, sounds like a big suite of apps)`
`02:44.22`	`simonrvn`	`(and i wouldn't even suggest uw-imap...)`
`02:44.25`	`Guerin`	`where would an imapd know what to do without a config file?`
`02:44.33`	`Vegar`	`Bac9: Courier is good.`
`02:44.43`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: thanx, I'll try cyrus, does it do tls too?`
`02:44.52`	`simonrvn`	`yes`
`02:45.12`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: uw-imap being good or bad?`
`02:45.14`	`tuxx`	`If I have the insmod-commandline how do I then add that so it get's loaded on boot?`
`02:45.35`	`Guerin`	`simonrvn: http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3116058a11,00.html`
`02:45.40`	`takatumi`	`tuxx: try modconf`
`02:45.57`	`simonrvn`	`Bac9: um, i think it's implied that i consider it bad by what i said`
`02:46.08`	`simonrvn`	`Guerin: allo`
`02:46.09`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: ok, wasn't sure...`
`02:46.15`	`Guerin`	`simonrvn: ay up`
`02:46.33`	`imnes`	`I installed gnome and would like to remove some packages (galeon, abiword) but they say also going to remove gnome and gnome-office and gnome-desktop-environment. Are those just metapackages or is it actually going to uninstall all of gnome if I do this?`
`02:46.34`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: does courier or cyrus do ipv6 too? can't seem to find any in woody that do ipv6`
`02:46.41`	`tina`	`abrotman: k. next question. jre150 and firefox?`
`02:46.49`	`Guerin`	`simonrvn: NZ isn't far from having sane marriage laws, just like you lot up there :)`
`02:46.57`	`simonrvn`	`Bac9: courier yes, a think cyrus does IIRC`
`02:46.58`	`jms`	`I recently did apt-get upgrade, now /usr/bin/btdownloaadgui is nowhere to be found. Could this be related?`
`02:47.16`	`jms`	`oops, /usr/bin/btdownloadgui`
`02:47.23`	`tuxx`	`takatumi thanks it seems to work for me :)`
`02:47.24`	`simonrvn`	`Guerin: :). we're doing something right up here... unlike some other shit the gov't is doing....`
`02:47.27`	`*** join/#debian grozniy (~user@dsl-84.209.240.220.dsl.comindico.com.au)`
`02:47.35`	`Guerin`	`word`
`02:47.39`	`imnes`	`anybody?`
`02:47.41`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: cyrus2.1 says it does, but version in woody don't think does ipv6`
`02:47.46`	`imnes`	`:)`
`02:47.52`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: what do you think of mailutils-imap?`
`02:47.59`	`Guerin`	`simonrvn: did you see http://www.world-cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/11/30/bush.arrest/index.html`
`02:48.01`	`mlewis00`	`Is there a way in Debian Sarge to produce a complete list of installed packages / software?`
`02:48.01`	`Drakh`	`imnges: My guess is that those other packages are dependent`
`02:48.03`	`takatumi`	`tuxx: and modprobe is better than insmod :)`
`02:48.06`	`simonrvn`	`haven't tred it`
`02:48.10`	`simonrvn`	`tried*`
`02:48.18`	`Guerin`	`mlewis00: dpkg -l \|grep ^ii`
`02:48.39`	`*** join/#debian zaq (~jw@pool-68-239-159-60.nwrk.east.verizon.net)`
`02:48.43`	`dondelelcaro`	`!installed`
`02:48.43`	`dpkg`	`To list installed packages, COLS=200 dpkg -l \|grep ^ii\|awk '{print $2}'; man dpkg; man grep; man awk;`
`02:48.54`	`simonrvn`	`Guerin: it's a joke. unfortunately`
`02:48.57`	`mlewis00`	`Guerin: Thanks...`
`02:48.58`	`sean_micken`	`anyone know how to print packet data in ASCII with tcpdump?`
`02:49.12`	`tuxx`	`takatumi hehe`
`02:49.16`	`*** join/#debian WiFiTux (~abonilla@nat-oeste-74-netra20.ice.co.cr)`
`02:49.16`	`Guerin`	`simonrvn: foooled a few of my friends, though :)`
`02:49.23`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: ok, in that case what do you consider better courier or cyrus? (I haven't had any experiance with either so am looking for some feedback before plunging into one of them)`
`02:49.40`	`simonrvn`	`Bac9: they each have their strengths`
`02:49.44`	`stoned`	`i have libjavaplugin_oji.so under /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins but it doesn't show up under about:plugins. what do I need to do to install it, some symbolic link? the link the java installing guide online tells me is of /usr/java/blah** but i don't have the directory on my system im confused`
`02:49.50`	`simonrvn`	`Bac9: it depend s what you need them for`
`02:49.57`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: can you provide a couple sentence intro of each?`
`02:50.03`	`jms`	`does the latest bittorrent package no longer have btdownloadgui?`
`02:50.04`	`mlewis00`	`Guerin: Is it possible to reverse this process and feed the list back to dpkg to duplicate installed packages on a new install?`
`02:50.04`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: pro/con stuff`
`02:50.14`	`abrotman`	`tina: no idea ...`
`02:50.16`	`simonrvn`	`no. read up on them`
`02:50.23`	`abrotman`	`tina: /msg dpkg java install`
`02:50.34`	`simonrvn`	`i don't do other people's research for them`
`02:50.41`	`tina`	`abrotman: is it larger than a breadbox?`
`02:50.44`	`abrotman`	`tina: something about the libjavaplugin`
`02:50.48`	`Guerin`	`stoned: the easiest way to get the java plugin working is to get the .bin from java.sun.com, apt-get install mjava-package, and run make-jpkg java-foo.bin`
`02:50.59`	`Guerin`	`tina: ^^^`
`02:51.00`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: I meen from your experiance`
`02:51.09`	`*** join/#debian \|\|cw_ (~chatzilla@commons10k1.mo24.107.43.53.charter-stl.com)`
`02:51.18`	`*** join/#debian walnuck (~walnuts@modemcable116.75-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`02:51.25`	`sean_micken`	`Guerin: apt-get install mjava-package doesn't work..`
`02:51.30`	`Guerin`	`yeah`
`02:51.32`	`stoned`	`Guerin, I was advised earlier to get the blackdown java debs`
`02:51.33`	`Guerin`	`s/m//`
`02:51.36`	`sean_micken`	`Guerin: nor does that.`
`02:51.43`	`Drakh`	`sean: What is the error?`
`02:51.44`	`Guerin`	`stoned: by whom?`
`02:51.52`	`stoned`	`Guerin, I can't recall`
`02:51.57`	`Guerin`	`!info java-package`
`02:51.57`	`sean_micken`	`Drakh: it's not there.`
`02:52.01`	`dpkg`	`java-package: (A utility for building Java(TM) 2 related Debian packages), section contrib/misc, is optional. Version: 0.17 (sid), Packaged size: 11 kB, Installed size: 92 kB`
`02:52.03`	`*** join/#debian BeetleJuice (~BeetleJui@200.141.29.242)`
`02:52.07`	`jms`	`jms: there is now bittorent-gui`
`02:52.07`	`Guerin`	`sean_micken: ...`
`02:52.16`	`\|\|cw_`	`deb sarge and amd64 on nForce 3 Ultra.. any thing to be aware off before I buy?`
`02:52.21`	`*** join/#debian croepha (~croepha@h000c41c69710.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`02:52.30`	`jms`	`jms: thanks. Where would I be without you`
`02:52.38`	`Guerin`	`stoned: don't bother with them; use make-jpkg`
`02:52.42`	`Drakh`	`sean: Is that the exact error message?`
`02:52.53`	`stoned`	`!blackdown`
`02:52.53`	`dpkg`	`blackdown kicks ass; they're java people for linux -- http://www.blackdown.org, or a group of Sun Java products ported to Linux by the Blackdown development team. Get it at http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/mirrors.html, or most mirrors have aptable sections, or a group of folks who signed NDA's with Sun and got the JDK source code. they ported it to linux and put it up on blackdown.org, or ask me about get-blackdown`
`02:52.57`	`stoned`	`!java`
`02:52.58`	`dpkg`	`extra, extra, read all about it, java is a platform independent OO language. People usually associate Java with eye-candy applets, this is in fact a relatively weak use of Java. Server-side Java is extremely powerful due to the threads capabilities and the huge number of APIs available. On the other hand, Sun's Java licensing is extremely restrictive. Ask me about <java licensing> and <install java> and <sid mozilla java> (for starters).`
`02:53.07`	`jms`	`jms: np. glad to help.`
`02:53.11`	`stoned`	`ok man`
`02:53.15`	`stoned`	`no blackdown then`
`02:53.33`	`TheStar`	`I prefer Python.`
`02:53.41`	`stoned`	`i prefer monty python`
`02:53.49`	`Drakh`	`Only the true star prefers python`
`02:53.50`	`TheStar`	`That too.`
`02:54.02`	`takatumi`	`how big is this .bin? I am tempted to try as well`
`02:54.35`	`*** join/#debian paulo (paulo@200165199100.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
`02:54.50`	`Bac9`	`simonrvn: oh well thanx for the advice that you did give`
`02:54.51`	`BeetleJuice`	`Can i run the procmail as daemon?`
`02:55.01`	`paulo`	`hi all. anyone can help me? i have a scsi partition that isnt working anymore`
`02:55.04`	`*** join/#debian novem (novem@c-24-126-27-128.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`02:55.05`	`\|\|cw_`	`no issues with nforce3 and amd64 on sarge then?`
`02:55.19`	`paulo`	`mount /dev/sdb1`
`02:55.19`	`paulo`	`mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdb1,`
`02:55.19`	`paulo`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:55.21`	`walnuck`	`anyone knows about freedesktop?`
`02:55.31`	`\|\|cw_`	`BeetleJuice, no procmail is for mta's to call out to deliver the mail to the mailbox`
`02:55.32`	`paulo`	`how can i fix this?`
`02:55.32`	`Drakh`	`Paulo: What has changed?`
`02:55.38`	`takatumi`	`walnuck: it is free isn't it?`
`02:55.43`	`novem`	`could anyone help me with something, I'm getting the error conflicting types for aa_html_format`
`02:55.44`	`paulo`	`it simple doesnt mount any more`
`02:55.56`	`paulo`	`but it list as linux partition in fdsik`
`02:56.06`	`paulo`	`may I have to recreate superblock?`
`02:56.13`	`Drakh`	`Paulo: Did you change kernel or anything?`
`02:56.30`	`jms`	`jms: hey, this new bittorrent download manager looks pretty nice. thanks for etting me know about it.`
`02:56.49`	`scarynetworkguy`	`BeetleJuice: What are you trying to do with procmail?`
`02:57.11`	`paulo`	`Drakh, nothing`
`02:57.20`	`BeetleJuice`	`scarynetworkguy: nothing.. i just want know if the procmail can run as daemon...`
`02:57.26`	`paulo`	`is there any way to recreate the superblock?`
`02:57.33`	`novem`	could anyone tell me what would cause/how to fix this error, or where to get more information about it? error: conflicting types for `aa_html_format'
`02:57.38`	`novem`	/usr/include/aalib.h:318: error: previous declaration of `aa_html ormat'
`02:57.50`	`stoned`	`Guerin, do i download java sdk or jre?`
`02:57.58`	`bob2`	`novem: ask whoever wrote the dodgy software you're compiling`
`02:58.07`	`bob2`	`by 'dodgy' I mean broken`
`02:58.12`	`novem`	`That's probably the problem to.`
`02:58.22`	`novem`	`is there any way to go about getting it to work?`
`02:58.31`	`bob2`	`and by 'broken' I mean shit`
`02:58.35`	`bob2`	`yes, fix the source`
`02:58.40`	`scarynetworkguy`	`BeetleJuice: Nope that wouldn't really make any sense. The way it works is that you tell your MTA, I like Postfix, to use it to deliver mail. You then use Procmail to do various things with your mail.`
`02:58.44`	`bob2`	`ie complain to the author`
`02:58.49`	`takatumi`	`whine`
`02:58.53`	`*** join/#debian Lektron (~Lektron@pcp01098998pcs.tsclos01.al.comcast.net)`
`02:58.53`	`Drakh`	`novem: Getting the source writer to fix it would be my suggestion too`
`02:58.59`	`novem`	`I tried renaming every instance of aa_html_format in hasciicam.c but, then the program just runs shitty`
`02:59.03`	`paulo`	`anyone knows?`
`02:59.10`	`bob2`	`paulo: no`
`02:59.45`	`BeetleJuice`	`scarynetworkguy: The procmail will run as daemon if i run the procmail over the cron ?`
`02:59.57`	`takatumi`	`novem: screw it, move on to the next program`
`02:59.59`	`novem`	`could my error be a problem with aalibs?`
`03:00.05`	`bob2`	`novem: ask the author`
`03:00.08`	`bob2`	`we didn't write it`
`03:00.18`	`jager`	`what program is this anyway novem?`
`03:00.21`	`bob2`	`if you followed the instructions, and it didn't build, bitch at whoever wrote it`
`03:00.25`	`novem`	`hasciicam.dyne.org ;o/`
`03:00.26`	`walnuck`	`anyone use quicktime without mozplugger?`
`03:00.32`	`BeetleJuice`	`scarynetworkguy: sorry for my english.. hehe`
`03:00.34`	`scarynetworkguy`	`BeetleJuice: No. It is not and can not be run as a daemon.`
`03:00.35`	`*** join/#debian cob (~cob@AClermont-Ferrand-101-1-3-104.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`03:00.36`	`Drakh`	`novem: I would guess the source is at fault, not the debian libraries`
`03:00.51`	`novem`	`but I'm also an idiot and had to install the aalibs`
`03:00.56`	`novem`	`so i probably fudged them up`
`03:00.58`	`BeetleJuice`	`scarynetworkguy: ok.. tranks!`
`03:01.00`	`novem`	`could that be the case?`
`03:01.05`	`walnuck`	`or plugins for video streams without the use of mozplugger? I'm lost as to what's the best way to deal with videostream plugins...`
`03:01.11`	`*** join/#debian kerpal (kerpal@30-56.34-65.tampabay.rr.com)`
`03:01.11`	`scarynetworkguy`	`BeetleJuice: NP.`
`03:01.14`	`*** join/#debian kevix (~kevix@user-2ive7n5.dialup.mindspring.com)`
`03:01.19`	`Drakh`	`novem: Possible but unlikely`
`03:01.24`	`novem`	`okay thanks.`
`03:01.24`	`bob2`	`novem: you installed aalibes from the Debian packages, right?`
`03:01.32`	`kerpal`	`getting google to search for "for loop" is annoyin..`
`03:01.39`	`novem`	`apt-get install aalibs or whatever.`
`03:01.45`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: google.com/linux`
`03:01.46`	`*** join/#debian Viddy (~lsk@ip-202-37-231-85.internet.co.nz)`
`03:02.00`	`novem`	`I did the web install for sarge and it's ben hell since`
`03:02.02`	`*** join/#debian ^^ApImEnTaDo^^ (~Artur@200-147-25-223.tlm.dialuol.com.br)`
`03:02.10`	`kerpal`	`walnuck: going for javascript.. not sure if it will help but we will see.`
`03:02.14`	`novem`	`most of the stuff i should of got from the iso's im found installing myself`
`03:02.14`	`*** join/#debian beppu (~beppu@64.235.246.5)`
`03:02.15`	`^^ApImEnTaDo^^`	`oi`
`03:02.20`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: javascript?`
`03:02.21`	`*** part/#debian volksport (~e@volksport.gallery)`
`03:02.31`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: #javascript`
`03:02.37`	`kerpal`	`they banned me.`
`03:02.39`	`*** join/#debian LittleDan (~LittleDan@roc-66-66-13-211.rochester.rr.com)`
`03:02.40`	`bob2`	`when the bar is open you'll often find me warming a seat`
`03:02.45`	`bob2`	`kerpal: wow, can't imagine why`
`03:02.46`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: go to dev netscape`
`03:02.50`	`takatumi`	`novem: that is bad, shouldn't happen`
`03:02.58`	`*** part/#debian Lektron (~Lektron@pcp01098998pcs.tsclos01.al.comcast.net)`
`03:03.00`	`kerpal`	`i said its stupid for them to make ppl register it keeps ppl from joining.`
`03:03.04`	`*** join/#debian scorphus (~scorphus@scorphus.user)`
`03:03.09`	`kerpal`	`bob2: whats that supposed to mean?`
`03:03.09`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: /msg the nickserv`
`03:03.28`	`bob2`	`kerpal: that you sometimes get into moronic and annoying arguments`
`03:03.30`	`walnuck`	`bob2: i think he doesn't know why he's here`
`03:03.34`	`kerpal`	`walnuck: i know how to register.`
`03:03.45`	`LittleDan`	`when I try to install anything through apt, it wants to remove a bunch of gnome 1 things and add a bunch of gnome 2 things. But when it does that, everything breaks. What shoudl I do?`
`03:03.47`	`kerpal`	`bob2: hmm.. fair enough..`
`03:04.01`	`bob2`	`LittleDan: not mix shitty apt sources`
`03:04.12`	`kerpal`	`bob2: i wouldn't never ban you for having an opinion tho.`
`03:04.33`	`bob2`	`kerpal: thanks!`
`03:04.40`	`LittleDan`	`bob2: I'm only using the official debian repositories and the stuff Morphix Gnome came with`
`03:04.49`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: go to netscape and check out the development sections, i just told you something..`
`03:04.49`	`*** join/#debian croepha (~croepha@h000c41c69710.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`03:04.51`	`bob2`	`LittleDan: #morphix`
`03:04.54`	`bob2`	`LittleDan: cya!`
`03:05.00`	`kerpal`	`walnuck: yeah i got it..`
`03:05.01`	`ec`	`!@#@#$$`
`03:05.05`	`tina`	`kerpal: having an opinion and expressing it are two separate things ;)`
`03:05.10`	`LittleDan`	`they weren't helpful`
`03:05.18`	`LittleDan`	`they said I shouldn't worry about it`
`03:05.27`	`takatumi`	`LittleDan: then don't`
`03:05.30`	`bob2`	`LittleDan: well, when you're using Debian, we're happy to help`
`03:05.39`	`kerpal`	`tina: seeing a chan drop from 30+ to 10+ is something that should be expressed.`
`03:05.40`	`bob2`	`but we can't help with whatever braindamage morphix introduced`
`03:05.41`	`LittleDan`	`it is debian`
`03:05.50`	`*** join/#debian fenix_slack (~ajthh@200.234.63.81)`
`03:05.51`	`bob2`	`no it's not`
`03:05.52`	`kerpal`	`tina: since they did that my answer's have been slim..`
`03:05.53`	`takatumi`	`LittleDan: yeah right`
`03:05.54`	`bob2`	`and I kn ow it's not`
`03:06.01`	`bob2`	`so arguiing is pointless`
`03:06.06`	`LittleDan`	`ok, sorry`
`03:06.09`	`*** part/#debian LittleDan (~LittleDan@roc-66-66-13-211.rochester.rr.com)`
`03:06.27`	`*** join/#debian zophyx (~Emile@zophyx.student.supporter.pdpc)`
`03:06.40`	`walnuck`	`i get pissed with other distros that try to make money off debian and not give a cent about it..that really pisses me..`
`03:06.52`	`walnuck`	`f** morphix`
`03:07.02`	`kerpal`	`bob2: i wasn't arguing i stated my point then let him get in his, then i said okay fair enough then he started to rant about my name haing a number in it.. (which i only use for registeration), then i told him he was leet cause he had a 0 for o in his.`
`03:07.05`	`walnuck`	`anyone use quicktime without mozplugger?`
`03:07.17`	`bob2`	`kerpal: well, ok`
`03:07.33`	`bob2`	`walnuck: like ubuntu?]`
`03:08.04`	`walnuck`	`bob2: haha..`
`03:08.04`	`*** part/#debian fenix_slack (~ajthh@200.234.63.81)`
`03:08.04`	`walnuck`	`bob2: they get harrassments about their perv desktop..`
`03:08.04`	`scarynetworkguy`	`Ubuntu causes cancer and makes the baby jesus cry.`
`03:08.04`	`*** join/#debian magoseitor (~luis@212.44.126.164)`
`03:08.09`	`kerpal`	`bob2: no big loss, i got 10 silent ppl who are too leet to answer something cause they don't know/care/ or are idle, where #web answered it with a speculation..`
`03:08.16`	`bob2`	`they also employ some of the smartest people you'll ever meet to work on the distro`
`03:08.17`	`magoseitor`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:08.17`	`Drakh`	`scary: lol`
`03:08.21`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: no`
`03:08.24`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: #gentoo`
`03:09.03`	`magoseitor`	`yep, i know but maybe someone on debian knows too`
`03:09.03`	`bob2`	`awww`
`03:09.08`	`bob2`	`jesus dude`
`03:09.20`	`bob2`	`'OMG I CAN'T BUILD A GENTOO KERNEL'`
`03:09.23`	`nvz`	`what do you want, bob2? ;)`
`03:09.31`	`Drakh`	`He's coming back, bob2`
`03:09.39`	`nvz`	`oh yeah, I'm not jesus :/`
`03:09.48`	`scarynetworkguy`	`Jesus is fucking metal.`
`03:09.49`	`walnuck`	`bob2: shouldn't gentoo ppl asking gentoo questions about gentoo compiling make #debian f** lame?`
`03:09.51`	`bob2`	`Drakh: I've been waiting 2000 years, no dice`
`03:09.58`	`bob2`	`I'm beginning to think he's not coming back`
`03:10.11`	`bob2`	`walnuck: that sentence no verb`
`03:10.12`	`*** join/#debian croepha (~croepha@h000c41c69710.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`03:10.17`	`Drakh`	`I'll give him ten more minutes`
`03:10.17`	`magoseitor`	`hey, is not a compiling problem..`
`03:10.27`	`kerpal`	`he came back and was killed by the government, don't let anyone tell you different..`
`03:10.30`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: sorry, it's gentoo-specific question`
`03:10.45`	`bob2`	`try #gentoo`
`03:10.51`	`magoseitor`	`and isn't linux just for everyone?? you just seems to regionalyze the linux distros...`
`03:10.52`	`walnuck`	`bob2: i mean i get sick of gentoo questions..they should be banned from #debian because its rather annoying to see this so often..`
`03:11.12`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: you'll note that the only question mark in the post was on the sentence "`
`03:11.16`	`magoseitor`	`i already tried #gentoo, and no anwsers, that's why i try #debian`
`03:11.17`	`Drakh`	`mago: For good reason I imagine`
`03:11.18`	`bob2`	`Now, i wonder, (and ask for help), is there anyway to make my system build a new kernel with genkernel in wich it choses the best for my hardware, like during installation?? "`
`03:11.26`	`bob2`	`'genkernel' is some sort of stupid gentoo script`
`03:11.37`	`bob2`	`walnuck: oh, sure, I'll ban anyone who annoys you`
`03:11.56`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: people who use webforums shouldn't be building kernels anyway, afaict`
`03:12.02`	`kerpal`	`magoseitor: the gentoo way is not the debian way, the debian way is not the gentoo way, neither is the linux way and the linux way is possible to do on your system but would break your package manager...`
`03:12.09`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: and, regardless, it's a gentoo question, since no other distro has "genkernel:`
`03:12.33`	`walnuck`	`bob2: okay :)...there should be a forenote on the top header though... #debian <> other distros`
`03:12.34`	`magoseitor`	`is just a question, i want my kernel to recompile again using genkernel..`
`03:12.44`	`magoseitor`	`good`
`03:12.45`	`bob2`	`the basic problem is "clueless user" vs" kernel compiletion"`
`03:12.55`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: bye now`
`03:13.03`	`bob2`	`you've had your two polite hints`
`03:13.11`	`bob2`	`also my typing is horrendous`
`03:13.13`	`magoseitor`	`sorry, i didn't born knowing all`
`03:13.14`	`*** join/#debian binbrain (~binbrain@adsl-67-38-7-168.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)`
`03:13.20`	`shingouz`	`magoseitor: the problem is we dont have a clue about how to use genkernel and we dont wanna have one. get debian and use make-kpkg`
`03:13.24`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: please don't be a trolling moron`
`03:13.31`	`*** join/#debian nimb (~rgardner@c-24-8-164-19.client.comcast.net)`
`03:13.32`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: genkernel is not in Debian`
`03:13.35`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: it is in gentoo`
`03:13.40`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: hence, #gentoo`
`03:13.43`	`kerpal`	`walnuck: kicks are cool after two kicks its understanble to ban.. but banning is stupid.. you can only ban the people who are not capable of doing anything war like.. otherwise i would be tunnelling in from sixteen different places and bombarding the shit out of someone.. banning is lame.`
`03:13.45`	`*** join/#debian jalopy (~mo@dynamic-129-120-175-70.dynamic.unt.edu)`
`03:13.46`	`bob2`	`shingouz: thanks for being useless`
`03:13.54`	`*** join/#debian cdc (~cdc@203.109.107.146)`
`03:14.17`	`cdc`	`What is Debian Sarge. Are the packages equal to knoppix 3.6?`
`03:14.27`	`nimb`	`anyone have any guesses why I can't put a xsetroot command in my crontab file and get it to do anything?`
`03:14.28`	`bob2`	`cdc: no idea, #knoppix might know`
`03:14.32`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: you're full of bloat, you type too much..maybe you should join #flood, I think banning is good for #gentoo ppl`
`03:14.34`	`magoseitor`	`i know this is debian, i JUST made the question here for in case someone knows...or are you just blind and loyal just to debian?`
`03:14.43`	`bob2`	`nimb: because a) you didn't set DISPLAY, b) it's a bad idea`
`03:14.43`	`*** join/#debian tf (~tf@pcp08530743pcs.sthind01.mo.comcast.net)`
`03:14.46`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: for fuck;s sake`
`03:14.49`	`Drakh`	`mago: No one knows`
`03:14.51`	`bob2`	`magoseitor: genkernel is not in debian`
`03:14.58`	`nimb`	`bob2: hehe, how do I set a display?`
`03:14.59`	`*** mode/#debian [+o bob2] by ChanServ`
`03:14.59`	`*** part/#debian magoseitor (~luis@212.44.126.164)`
`03:15.00`	`*** mode/#debian [-o bob2] by bob2`
`03:15.31`	`bob2`	`nimb: what are you trying to do? rotatwe your background?`
`03:15.39`	`nimb`	`bob2: yep`
`03:15.40`	`walnuck`	`bob2: is there an alternative to mplayer+mozplugger? if you don't mind me asking..`
`03:15.50`	`kerpal`	`walnuck: thats fne, if you wanna try to kindle a flame.. but i got three ip's right now that i own. 2 more i have access to, about 5 irc tunnels through telnet and thats 8 sources that would take me a half hour to setup.`
`03:15.55`	`Zero_Dogg`	`walnuck: mplayerplugin`
`03:15.58`	`bob2`	`walnuck: just use mplayer`
`03:16.00`	`nimb`	`bob2: (I tried doing xsetroot -display :0 ...)`
`03:16.04`	`bob2`	`or mozilla-mplayer or whatever`
`03:16.05`	`Qo-noS_`	`magoseitor: Why didn't you post your question on some MS Windows channels too? You never know do you, by your logic someone there may know the answer too? Or forget not those OS X ones too.`
`03:16.08`	`walnuck`	`kerpal: i think you need a lesson.. go outside and play`
`03:16.18`	`bob2`	`nimb: you put it in your user crontab, right?`
`03:16.29`	`kerpal`	`dpkg tell walnuck about ffs`
`03:16.36`	`bob2`	`Qo-noS_: do you understand why magoseitor's question was off-topifc?`
`03:16.39`	`bob2`	`kerpal: stop it`
`03:16.47`	`kerpal`	`i wil.`
`03:16.48`	`bob2`	`walnuck: no one cares what you think of kerpal`
`03:16.51`	`*** join/#debian prock (~prock@CPE000d889f7084-CM014480102454.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`03:16.51`	`*** join/#debian man_in_shack (~btk@203.48.248.186)`
`03:16.55`	`walnuck`	`bob2: he's really flooding bloat-typing in #debian..`
`03:16.58`	`*** mode/#debian [+o bob2] by ChanServ`
`03:16.58`	`*** part/#debian scorphus (~scorphus@scorphus.user)`
`03:16.58`	`*** mode/#debian [-o bob2] by bob2`
`03:17.00`	`Zero_Dogg`	`walnuck: gxine also had some plugin as far as I remember:)`
`03:17.04`	`nimb`	`bob2: no`
`03:17.04`	`Qo-noS_`	`bob2: I do. Just telling him so.`
`03:17.13`	`bob2`	`walnuck: compared to your insightful commentary?`
`03:17.15`	`bob2`	`Qo-noS_: why?`
`03:17.15`	`man_in_shack`	`how do i find the devicename of a terminal in use?`
`03:17.22`	`kerpal`	`bob2: i will stop. you are right, i sometimes am an idiot.`
`03:17.24`	`nimb`	`bob2: guess I'll try that, although I don't know why it would make a difference`
`03:17.25`	`bob2`	`nimb: erm, it won'y possibly work from root's one`
`03:17.34`	`bob2`	`nimb: because a single user owns a display`
`03:17.35`	`*** join/#debian croepha (~croepha@h000c41c69710.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`03:17.43`	`bob2`	`nimb: root does not have access to $foo's`
`03:18.04`	`nimb`	`bob2: well, I'm just using /etc/crontab, and you can run jobs as any user in there, so I'm running the job as my user`
`03:18.06`	`Zero_Dogg`	`nimb, bob2: Won't adding it to the users crontab work then?`
`03:18.14`	`bob2`	`Zero_Dogg: yes`
`03:18.18`	`*** join/#debian R0OTED (~tester@mctnnbsah25-142166147237.nb.aliant.net)`
`03:18.21`	`bob2`	`nimb: run it from your own crontab`
`03:18.23`	`walnuck`	`Zero_Dogg: does quicktime and real streams work well for you?`
`03:18.25`	`bob2`	`R0OTED: don't be so lame`
`03:18.28`	`thoreauputic`	`man_in_shack: just type tty`
`03:18.41`	`Qo-noS_`	`bob2: it is a Gentoo related question posted on a Debian channel for one. Second thing, not an offtopic one is it was a question that perhaps some reading up of the docs on the distro's website could have led to some clues.`
`03:18.42`	`man_in_shack`	`thoreauputic, hehe ty`
`03:18.43`	`*** part/#debian man_in_shack (~btk@203.48.248.186)`
`03:18.47`	`Zero_Dogg`	`walnuck: who knows...as I havent used them - at least not inside a browser`
`03:19.04`	`bob2`	`Qo-noS_: it was gentoo-related because genkernel is a gentoo tool`
`03:19.11`	`bob2`	`fwiw, blahblahblah`
`03:19.14`	`*** join/#debian AceSmythe (AceSmythe@1Cust3639.an3.lax33.da.uu.net)`
`03:20.05`	`Qo-noS_`	`bob2: I understand just like there are some other scripts available for some other distros like those listed on jetblackz on the kernel ;)`
`03:20.17`	`bob2`	`hah`
`03:20.19`	`*** join/#debian Nurbs_ (tom@p50927E42.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`03:20.21`	`bob2`	`so`
`03:20.32`	`bob2`	`what tourist sights in London do people recommend?`
`03:20.39`	`bob2`	`ideally near totenham court road`
`03:21.10`	`TheStar`	`bob2: The Sydney Harbour Bridge :)`
`03:21.16`	`TheStar`	`bob2: It's not far, but I'd suggest a plane.`
`03:21.17`	`WiFiTux`	`bob2, Sights? among the fog?`
`03:21.33`	`walnuck`	`Zero_Dogg: it's been a few years plugins for streams suck...I think it'll take another year for them to mature..`
`03:21.37`	`Zero_Dogg`	`bob2: closes net cafe where you can hook up a laptop? (jk:)`
`03:21.53`	`bob2`	`WiFiTux: I wanted frozen fog, and didn't get any. RIPPED OFF.`
`03:22.02`	`bob2`	`TheStar: good idea, never seen that before!`
`03:22.08`	`bob2`	`Zero_Dogg: hah, we have net at the hotel`
`03:22.17`	`TheStar`	`bob2: It's only at the other end of the world :)`
`03:22.17`	`Zero_Dogg`	`bob2: well then - you're saved:D`
`03:22.22`	`WiFiTux`	`bob2, haha... I'm like that... Wireless Internet and sitting on a Frozen bench`
`03:22.53`	`bob2`	`TheStar: normally I'm 2.5 hours from it`
`03:23.04`	`bob2`	`seems a waste to go all the way home on the weekend to see it`
`03:23.16`	`bob2`	`Zero_Dogg: hah, too slow to upload photos, tho`
`03:23.20`	`WiFiTux`	`OK, It's about time they release xorg or sarge...`
`03:23.21`	`TheStar`	`bob2: It's worth it, though :)`
`03:23.24`	`TheStar`	`bob2: Just kidding.`
`03:23.36`	`jetscreamer`	`transparency messes up the mouse gui in xchat? (i can't seem to select 'open in web browser', the dialog disappears)`
`03:23.39`	`bob2`	`WiFiTux: the bbc said -1 to 0 for today, then revised it up by 4 degress. which is a scam.`
`03:23.41`	`Zero_Dogg`	`bob2: oh well...get some software that'll convert them to ASCII:)`
`03:23.54`	`bob2`	`hah, I've had more than enough aalib for one week`
`03:23.58`	`*** join/#debian croepha (~croepha@h000c41c69710.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`03:23.59`	`Zero_Dogg`	`lol`
`03:24.05`	`jetscreamer`	`no nm`
`03:24.13`	`*** part/#debian R0OTED (~tester@mctnnbsah25-142166147237.nb.aliant.net)`
`03:24.20`	`jetscreamer`	`diff bug, focus isn't compleat`
`03:24.20`	`bob2`	`step the rhtyhm made out of brown paper?`
`03:24.35`	`abrotman`	`!moo`
`03:24.37`	`dpkg`	`mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! Type apt-get moo.`
`03:24.50`	`WiFiTux`	`bob2, -1 C today? that ain't cold... I liked the NY 1996 storm, I was in -26 and I live in the Tropic...`
`03:25.06`	`WiFiTux`	`abrotman, what's that cow thing? Hiuh!?`
`03:25.20`	`*** join/#debian EPH2 (~Jason@adsl-68-88-174-88.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net)`
`03:25.35`	`bob2`	`WiFiTux: hah, I wish`
`03:25.40`	`bob2`	`it's 38C at home today`
`03:25.47`	`bob2`	`london is kicking ass compared to that`
`03:25.54`	`TheStar`	`bob2: Pfft.`
`03:26.06`	`WiFiTux`	`bob2, 38C? that hot?`
`03:26.07`	`bob2`	`Drakh: it's a good one`
`03:26.07`	`TheStar`	`bob2: I expect it to go over 40 soon.`
`03:26.12`	`bob2`	`WiFiTux: .au`
`03:26.19`	`WiFiTux`	`ahhh!!`
`03:26.39`	`bob2`	`only visitign the land of cold days and warm beer`
`03:26.39`	`WiFiTux`	`bob2, haha Summer for you... Does it snow in .au?`
`03:26.55`	`TheStar`	`WiFiTux: Sometimes, but only in certain places.`
`03:26.57`	`WiFiTux`	`bob2, ahh were are you london or germany?`
`03:27.07`	`bob2`	`WiFiTux: not in any of the cities (well, once every few years), but the alpsa are covered for a few months a year`
`03:27.09`	`TheStar`	`WiFiTux: It snows in teh snowy mountains ;)`
`03:27.11`	`bob2`	`WiFiTux: in london atm`
`03:27.14`	`WiFiTux`	`TheStar, well, in here, not even with the perfect storm`
`03:27.33`	`WiFiTux`	`bob2, nice mait`
`03:27.59`	`bob2`	`yeah, but bars are BYO fridge`
`03:28.01`	`WiFiTux`	`where do I check for how long the pc has been ON?`
`03:28.11`	`Drakh`	`uptime?`
`03:28.15`	`bob2`	`WiFiTux: 'uptime'`
`03:28.25`	`WiFiTux`	`ahh, I have to install it.`
`03:28.27`	`Drakh`	`I stand corrected`
`03:29.09`	`Narg`	`anyone have msn msg here? (want to test something)`
`03:29.14`	`*** join/#debian Raf256 (~Raf256@rafal.joint.eu.org)`
`03:29.18`	`WiFiTux`	`Narg, here`
`03:29.20`	`WiFiTux`	`amsn?`
`03:29.26`	`Drakh`	`Microsoft <spits>`
`03:31.13`	`abrotman`	`!Moo`
`03:31.13`	`dpkg`	`mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! Type apt-get moo.`
`03:31.19`	`beth`	`moooooooooo`
`03:31.37`	`*** join/#debian hedleshrsmn (jev@chr160dhcp1648.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)`
`03:32.04`	`novem`	`haha what does apt-get moo do?`
`03:32.13`	`novem`	`oh`
`03:32.13`	`nvz`	`moos`
`03:32.14`	`novem`	`nvm`
`03:32.15`	`novem`	`haha`
`03:32.16`	`Narg`	`its a easter egg :p`
`03:32.18`	`novem`	`nice`
`03:32.20`	`novem`	`:o)`
`03:32.26`	`Drakh`	`Installs spyware basically`
`03:32.38`	`*** join/#debian kurumin (~kurumin@nrjo09-1021.dial.rjo.embratel.net.br)`
`03:32.46`	`nvz`	`you have to moo every day to celebrate apt's super cow powers`
`03:32.46`	`novem`	`drakh are you this funny all of the time?`
`03:32.55`	`*** join/#debian kurumin_ (~kurumin@nrjo09-1021.dial.rjo.embratel.net.br)`
`03:32.59`	`stew`	`happy friday! wheee`
`03:33.09`	`nvz`	`novem: if thats funny you're stoned`
`03:33.10`	`Narg`	`Anyone know why Gaim giving me a Msn Switchboard error? (I only use MSN because other peaple do, otherwise I wouldnt. Gimme a free IM protocol and Ill use :p)`
`03:33.16`	`*** part/#debian kurumin (~kurumin@nrjo09-1021.dial.rjo.embratel.net.br)`
`03:33.37`	`Drakh`	`Wow, tough crowd`
`03:33.37`	`novem`	`nvz if you failed to recognize that as sarcasm your stoned? ;o/`
`03:33.59`	`jms`	`very tough crowd`
`03:34.03`	`nvz`	`heh`
`03:34.17`	`*** join/#debian rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user)`
`03:34.18`	`Narg`	`yea, linux attracts tough crowds, I swear ;P`
`03:34.25`	`novem`	`how can i completely fuck up my entire linux box with one command? im bored`
`03:34.32`	`Narg`	`rm -rf?`
`03:34.37`	`novem`	`hmm okay`
`03:34.44`	`novem`	`thanks`
`03:34.46`	`novem`	`exit`
`03:34.55`	`nvz`	`novem: cat /dev/urandom > /dev/hda .. muwhahah`
`03:35.04`	`*** join/#debian Viddy (~lsk@ip-202-37-231-85.internet.co.nz)`
`03:35.18`	`WiFiTux`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:35.30`	`WiFiTux`	`Why this, if I'm the only one logged in?`
`03:35.39`	`Narg`	`daemon?`
`03:35.41`	`Narg`	`root?`
`03:35.51`	`shingouz`	`terminal?`
`03:36.27`	`*** join/#debian skyisblue (skyisblue@219.254.192.23)`
`03:36.45`	`*** join/#debian Covener (~covener@rdu57-71-086.nc.rr.com)`
`03:36.46`	`Drakh`	`Yeah, looks like each terminal count as a user`
`03:36.52`	`Drakh`	`pretty naff`
`03:37.05`	`Narg`	`Shingouz, you talking about the users, or my computer name :p`
`03:37.17`	`shingouz`	`Narg: users`
`03:37.18`	`jetscreamer`	`WiFiTux, it's normal, i don't remember the exact details but it's what they said`
`03:37.19`	`nvz`	`Drakh: its not a count of the number of usernames logged in, its the number of actual user logins`
`03:37.36`	`jetscreamer`	`some processes run as maybe`
`03:38.15`	`WiFiTux`	`jetscreamer, ohh yeah, once you install it, it's a security hole.`
`03:38.18`	`Drakh`	`I just started an xterm and the count went up by one`
`03:38.22`	`jetscreamer`	`?`
`03:39.09`	`jetscreamer`	`no idea`
`03:39.23`	`Narg`	`figures, my bug has ben reported, and is in the FAQ, but the designers dont even know whats wrong :p`
`03:39.25`	`simonrvn`	`xterm marks an entry into [uw]tmp`
`03:39.37`	`nvz`	`gkrellem isnt too bad`
`03:39.41`	`simonrvn`	`unless you set it to be a non-login term`
`03:39.45`	`stoned`	`Guerin, about what you said, all plugins/settins should be per user... "As a general rule, you should install plugins in your Firefox/plugins directory. Installing in the profiles directory is only recommended if you can not install plugins system-wide because of permissions issues." from the mozdev.org site`
`03:39.57`	`Drakh`	`Time to watch Love boat`
`03:40.09`	`Drakh`	`Bye guys. Been a blast`
`03:40.12`	`Guerin`	`stoned: mozilla is written on windows, primarily for windows`
`03:40.38`	`Guerin`	`stoned: the unix way is to have all settings handled on a per-user basis. System-wide config is for control freaks.`
`03:40.49`	`Guerin`	`stoned: that said, it's not a HUGE deal...`
`03:40.56`	`Narg`	`firefox works fine on debian, 500% better in fact`
`03:40.57`	`stoned`	`i was just saying`
`03:41.00`	`WiFiTux`	`OK, Beer time`
`03:41.08`	`stoned`	`it never hurts to have better understanding`
`03:43.29`	`stoned`	`Guerin, what web browser do you prefer to use in X`
`03:43.29`	`jetscreamer`	`!fuck firefox`
`03:43.39`	`Guerin`	`stoned: firefox`
`03:43.57`	`*** join/#debian kev_ (~kev@CPE-65-31-94-181.wi.rr.com)`
`03:44.04`	`*** join/#debian httpdss (~kenny@r200-125-41-58-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)`
`03:44.10`	`stoned`	`!fuck jetscreamer`
`03:44.16`	`kev_`	`Can anyone here give me a hand... i am trying to get my sound card to work with 2 applications at the same time :/`
`03:44.22`	`jetscreamer`	`!fuck nyle`
`03:44.28`	`stoned`	`kev_, jackd`
`03:44.38`	`stoned`	`argh`
`03:44.41`	`stoned`	`my fingers went bleh`
`03:44.46`	`*** join/#debian wowie (~dunno@rdtarts.arach.net.au)`
`03:44.47`	`stoned`	`its cold in here`
`03:44.48`	`kev_`	`I have sound...`
`03:44.59`	`kev_`	`just not when two applications are going...`
`03:45.04`	`httpdss`	`is there any apt source that has eclipse 3.0 for sid ?`
`03:45.06`	`stoned`	`jack i think allowes you to use multiple apps with one sound card`
`03:45.11`	`debian`	`kev_: we called it sound server`
`03:45.16`	`jetscreamer`	`!eclipse`
`03:45.16`	`dpkg`	`[eclipse] the end of the world`
`03:45.21`	`jetscreamer`	`!java`
`03:45.21`	`dpkg`	`[java] a platform independent OO language. People usually associate Java with eye-candy applets, this is in fact a relatively weak use of Java. Server-side Java is extremely powerful due to the threads capabilities and the huge number of APIs available. On the other hand, Sun's Java licensing is extremely restrictive. Ask me about <java licensing> and <install java> and <sid mozilla java> (for starters).`
`03:45.32`	`debian`	`httpdss: of course`
`03:45.33`	`kev_`	`i need two devices to use /dev/dsp or one to use /dev/dsp and /dev/dsp1`
`03:45.35`	`jetscreamer`	`i think he has a factoid for it`
`03:45.47`	`stoned`	`kev_, install a sound server such as jackd or esd`
`03:45.57`	`debian`	`httpdss: apt-cache search eclipse`
`03:46.05`	`kev_`	`stoned... this is for like quake3 and teamspeak`
`03:46.06`	`debian`	`httpdss: more than you can expect`
`03:46.14`	`stoned`	`kev_, yeh whatever`
`03:46.24`	`wowie`	`what would i download if i needed to get x includes?`
`03:46.30`	`debian`	`kev_: you dont' seem to hear me. :)`
`03:47.01`	`httpdss`	`debian: but the version i get from there is 2.1.3`
`03:47.13`	`Guerin`	`kev_: dmix`
`03:47.22`	`Guerin`	`!dmix`
`03:47.22`	`dpkg`	`extra, extra, read all about it, dmix is an alsa subsystem which allows a music device to play multiple sound streams simultaneously without the need for an external sound server. See http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=DmixPlugin`
`03:47.23`	`kev_`	`Its like it doesnt see the other /dev/dsp's`
`03:47.27`	`stoned`	`debian, technically we can't hear on irc :D`
`03:47.28`	`debian`	`httpdss: update`
`03:47.47`	`Blissex`	`kev_: read carefully the sharing section of http://WWW.sabi.co.UK/Notes/linuxSoundALSA.html`
`03:47.52`	`dondelelcaro`	`stoned: unless you're using emacspeak or similar`
`03:48.07`	`httpdss`	`debian: done that 3min ago .. maybe i dont have the source.list right`
`03:48.07`	`stoned`	`debian, lol`
`03:48.16`	`debian`	`httpdss: I mean, update with eclipse`
`03:48.29`	`debian`	`httpdss: You dont' seem to have used eclipse even once, do you? :)`
`03:48.50`	`httpdss`	`debian: yes but not in linux ..`
`03:49.00`	`debian`	`httpdss: same`
`03:49.00`	`*** join/#debian factotum (~factotum@c68.191.145.187.dul.mn.charter.com)`
`03:49.04`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 731] by debhelper`
`03:49.17`	`debian`	`httpdss: in fact you don't need to care too much about package for application as such`
`03:49.29`	`debian`	`httpdss: it's well contained in a single directly`
`03:49.41`	`debian`	`directory even`
`03:49.42`	`httpdss`	`debian: i just thought there was a package for 3.0`
`03:49.46`	`skyisblue`	`httpdss: someone successed sablevm + eclipse`
`03:49.52`	`debian`	`httpdss: there is, but it doesn't matter at all`
`03:50.01`	`debian`	`httpdss: you need to customize your own jdk anyway`
`03:50.12`	`wowie`	`how do download x devel?`
`03:50.16`	`*** join/#debian Nurbs (tom@pD95F964E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`03:50.18`	`debian`	`httpdss: so why bother follow what the package maintaner preset?`
`03:50.36`	`kev_`	`Hrn... i have a card though that supports hardware mixing so i shouldnt need the sound servers...`
`03:50.45`	`debian`	`httpdss: well, if you don't need to customize your own jdk, you probably just doing homework.`
`03:51.05`	`httpdss`	`debian: hahah :P .. not homework ..`
`03:51.23`	`debian`	`httpdss: or your gf's homework. Same. :P`
`03:51.34`	`jetscreamer`	`http://hemswell.lincoln.ac.uk/~dnutter/eclipse-woody.php`
`03:51.39`	`httpdss`	`debian: hahaha .`
`03:51.59`	`Narg`	`peer, why does sf.net only have rpms...`
`03:52.00`	`debian`	`when would be the days when gf start doing homework for thier bf?!`
`03:52.05`	`Narg`	`aka sourceforge.net :p`
`03:52.21`	`kev_`	`ugh`
`03:52.26`	`*** join/#debian Robinson (~BoardingL@ool-18ba479f.dyn.optonline.net)`
`03:52.31`	`kev_`	`does this mean i need windows........`
`03:52.49`	`jetscreamer`	`yes you need windows`
`03:52.50`	`*** join/#debian SDFH_Linux (~SDFH@adsl-065-006-180-151.sip.bct.bellsouth.net)`
`03:52.55`	`dondelelcaro`	`kev_: if you're using alsa, you won't need any of the sound servers.`
`03:53.11`	`jetscreamer`	`you have to have windows, or your computer will melt... or you may suffer from a lack of fresh air.`
`03:53.27`	`dondelelcaro`	`jetscreamer: I prefer portholes, myself...`
`03:53.39`	`kev_`	`dondelelcaro, right... but i cannot get hardware mixing..`
`03:53.44`	`jetscreamer`	`are you half hobbit?`
`03:53.52`	`stew`	`i'm more of a skylight man`
`03:53.54`	`jetscreamer`	`half a halfling`
`03:54.00`	`dondelelcaro`	`stew: we call them hatches`
`03:54.01`	`debian`	`jetscreamer: that makes you a human. XD`
`03:54.08`	`*** join/#debian novem (novem@c-24-126-27-128.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`03:54.12`	`*** join/#debian yang (yang@bia.IPv6.ljubljana.name)`
`03:54.29`	`*** join/#debian reg (~reg@2001:7a8:3d5a:0:2e0:7dff:fed2:11)`
`03:54.41`	`stew`	`dondelelcaro: i can appriciate a good dorade as much as the next guy`
`03:54.43`	`dondelelcaro`	`kev_: if you actually have something that does hardware mixing, it will "just work" using alsa.`
`03:54.44`	`wowie`	`checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths! -- what does this mean?`
`03:55.02`	`jetscreamer`	`wel they tell me i'm human, but sometimes wonder.`
`03:55.06`	`dondelelcaro`	`wowie: that means that you dont have xlibs-dev etc. installed`
`03:55.16`	`debian`	`jetscreamer: you're obviously not`
`03:55.21`	`novem`	`hello all, I need some help, I have one drive with linux/windows, and another fat32 (slave) im trying to mount, hdd1 and 2 are the cdrive partitions, what would the d be listed as?`
`03:55.26`	`Narg`	`pfft, you dont need a sound server. My sound wasnt working at all, and I ran freecraft, and it works for everything :p`
`03:55.42`	`kev_`	`dondelelcaro, i have a sound blaster live`
`03:55.49`	`jetscreamer`	`so what is the term for the next evolutionary step of the human race... jetscreamers eh`
`03:56.19`	`jetscreamer`	`novem, hdb1`
`03:56.21`	`dondelelcaro`	`kev_: so load the snd_emu10k1 module, and tell whatever you're using to use the alsa device instead of the oss compatibility layer`
`03:56.22`	`wowie`	`dondelelcaro, thank u very much`
`03:56.23`	`novem`	`thanks. ;o)`
`03:56.28`	`*** part/#debian longHair (~scott@c-24-118-153-76.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`03:56.42`	`dondelelcaro`	`wowie: /msg dpkg search; will help you solve these problems on your own`
`03:56.45`	`kev_`	`dondelelcaro, i believe it is already`
`03:56.46`	`novem`	`bleh, im stumped mount: /dev/hdb1 is not a valid block device`
`03:57.02`	`dondelelcaro`	`kev_: then run multiple instance of aplay to test`
`03:57.02`	`novem`	`is there a command to show all the connected hard disks?`
`03:57.07`	`dondelelcaro`	`novem: cat /proc/partitions`
`03:57.10`	`*** join/#debian kamusbr (~kamusbr@200.217.227.198)`
`03:57.11`	`novem`	`thanks`
`03:57.41`	`kev_`	`what is aplay?`
`03:57.41`	`stew`	`or fdisk -l`
`03:58.10`	`stew`	`kev_: alsa's audio player`
`03:59.10`	`jetscreamer`	`uh novem. hdd1 and 2 wouldn't both be cdroms`
`03:59.24`	`jetscreamer`	`hdc and hdd`
`03:59.31`	`*** join/#debian kbrooks (kyle@CPE0050ba557516-CM000039d12a5d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`03:59.32`	`kev_`	`when when i do aplay -L`
`03:59.36`	`*** join/#debian Krobelus (~willtham@c211-31-5-197.blktn4.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`03:59.42`	`novem`	`well, I have two drives, ones slave (fat32) im trying to mount, but the c drive has two partitions and linux is on the second`
`03:59.43`	`kbrooks`	`where i distutils in?`
`03:59.47`	`kev_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:59.47`	`kev_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:59.47`	`kev_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:00.04`	`kev_`	`maybe i have to somehow fix that os the 1 is alsa pcm card?>`
`04:00.06`	`novem`	`would the slave fat32 be hdc1 or what?`
`04:00.12`	`kbrooks`	`gr.`
`04:00.13`	`novem`	`ive tried everything i could think of heh`
`04:00.25`	`jetscreamer`	`moven`
`04:00.29`	`jetscreamer`	`err novem`
`04:00.31`	`kbrooks`	`what package is distutils in?`
`04:00.31`	`novem`	`mhm.`
`04:00.37`	`jetscreamer`	`how many cdroms`
`04:00.38`	`dondelelcaro`	`!tell kbrooks about search`
`04:00.40`	`jetscreamer`	`2?`
`04:00.40`	`novem`	`1`
`04:01.12`	`jetscreamer`	`ok. you say the fat32 disk is on the secondary along with the hd? or is it on the same cable as the cdrom`
`04:01.38`	`novem`	`the two discs are on the same cable, the cdrom is on its own.`
`04:01.48`	`jetscreamer`	`along with the hd you have windows on i meant`
`04:01.51`	`jetscreamer`	`k`
`04:01.52`	*** join/#debian Robinson` (~BoardingL@ool-18ba479f.dyn.optonline.net)
`04:02.00`	`jetscreamer`	`'should' be hdb1`
`04:02.06`	`novem`	`okay ile try it ;o)`
`04:02.09`	`jetscreamer`	`look at it with cfdisk /dev/hdb`
`04:02.23`	`*** join/#debian hoiho (hoiho@opensource.geek.nz)`
`04:02.24`	`dondelelcaro`	`kev_: so if you have sound playing, aplay -D hw:foosomething foofile.wav; will just work.`
`04:02.24`	`jetscreamer`	`or that fdisk command`
`04:02.29`	`stew`	`novem: fdisk -l`
`04:02.35`	`jetscreamer`	`^^`
`04:02.45`	`jetscreamer`	`add /dev/hdb`
`04:02.50`	`jetscreamer`	`i guess?`
`04:02.55`	`stew`	`not even necessary but sure`
`04:03.18`	`novem`	`fdisk -l = nothin`
`04:03.32`	`novem`	`Maurizi:/mnt# fdisk -l`
`04:03.32`	`novem`	`Maurizi:/mnt#`
`04:03.34`	`jetscreamer`	`how about cfdisk /dev/hdb (as root) don't write anything though`
`04:03.50`	`*** join/#debian TasteOfDeath (~tod@pD9FF3457.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`04:03.53`	`stew`	`novem: fdisk -l /dev/hdb?`
`04:03.56`	`novem`	`fatal cant open drive or whatever. guess its not hdb`
`04:04.00`	`novem`	`what are the possibillitys?`
`04:04.04`	`*** join/#debian vipersniper (~vipersnip@S01060004e25ca3df.no.shawcable.net)`
`04:04.06`	`novem`	`ile just try and mount them all and pick the winner`
`04:04.07`	`novem`	`lol`
`04:04.09`	`jetscreamer`	`ok novem try cfdisk /dev/hda and count em`
`04:04.13`	`novem`	`k`
`04:04.14`	`stew`	`with no dev, fdisk -l does everything in /proc/partitions`
`04:04.19`	`kev_`	`brb`
`04:04.24`	`jetscreamer`	`windows made the partition it's probably extended`
`04:04.27`	`*** join/#debian tam (~tam@linuxrulesthe.net)`
`04:04.32`	`jetscreamer`	`ahhh`
`04:04.41`	`tam`	`hi all, does anyone know how to convert a single html file into a pdf?`
`04:04.51`	`novem`	`opened disk read only no permission to write is all i see with cfdisk /dev/hda`
`04:04.59`	`*** join/#debian Robinson (~BoardingL@ool-18ba479f.dyn.optonline.net)`
`04:05.00`	`*** part/#debian vipersniper (~vipersnip@S01060004e25ca3df.no.shawcable.net)`
`04:05.05`	`jetscreamer`	`as root?`
`04:05.13`	`novem`	`yes`
`04:05.18`	`*** join/#debian laffen (~larslunde@ip68-227-82-145.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`04:05.31`	`jetscreamer`	`hel try hdc and hdd then`
`04:05.46`	`jetscreamer`	`that's weird`
`04:05.48`	`*** join/#debian Bugalugs (~Dan@c211-30-249-74.farfl1.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`04:06.01`	`novem`	`the partitions set up like drive1 (partition 1=windows partition2=linux) drive2 (one partition fat32)`
`04:06.09`	`novem`	`okay`
`04:06.14`	`jetscreamer`	`?`
`04:06.20`	`novem`	`hdd mounts partition one on drive one.`
`04:06.33`	`jetscreamer`	`where is drive 2`
`04:06.34`	`novem`	`whereas im trying to mount partition1 drive 2`
`04:06.38`	`novem`	`thats my question ;o)`
`04:07.00`	`*** join/#debian eriket (~titoleta@106.Red-217-125-104.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`04:07.26`	`jetscreamer`	`so cfdisk /dev/hdd gave you that info?`
`04:08.08`	`novem`	`yes it shows the C drive with the linux and windows partition.`
`04:08.21`	`novem`	`hda and hdb show nothing`
`04:08.27`	`novem`	`cant read`
`04:08.28`	`jetscreamer`	`ok and you tried hda and hdb... that leaves only one`
`04:08.45`	`novem`	`the winner is?`
`04:08.56`	`*** join/#debian xirtameht (~dave@CPE000c4127bcab-CM0011aec554f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`04:09.02`	`jetscreamer`	`a b .. d ... e f g`
`04:09.08`	`novem`	`heh ile try em all`
`04:09.19`	`jetscreamer`	`you have tried 3 out of 4`
`04:09.32`	`kbrooks`	`i want to check to see if <absolute path> is a directory`
`04:09.35`	`jetscreamer`	`hey is this sata?`
`04:09.47`	`imnes`	`Anybody know how I can replace the splash screen in openoffiec?`
`04:09.51`	`jetscreamer`	`(a b .. d)`
`04:09.54`	`imnes`	`openoffice`
`04:09.56`	`novem`	`oh god, its hdc1`
`04:10.02`	`*** join/#debian hyksos_ (~chicken@pD9EF1FF3.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`04:10.02`	`*** join/#debian vipersniper (~vipersnip@S01060004e25ca3df.no.shawcable.net)`
`04:10.08`	`jetscreamer`	`neat`
`04:10.14`	`novem`	`thanks jetscream for the help i just tried every letter :o)`
`04:10.21`	`jetscreamer`	`yay`
`04:10.22`	`novem`	`but i didnt know that command. ;o) so thanks`
`04:10.38`	`novem`	`s mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/D should do it?`
`04:10.40`	`jetscreamer`	`your stuff is on the secondary channel`
`04:10.44`	`novem`	`weird`
`04:10.56`	`jetscreamer`	`yeah something like that command should work`
`04:11.01`	`jetscreamer`	`maybe that one`
`04:11.06`	`stew`	`kruzi: if [ -d $path ]; then echo yes ; else echo no; fi`
`04:11.25`	`novem`	`okay cool, what file do i add that to to make it do it on every bootup again?`
`04:11.26`	`stew`	`errr, kbrooks`
`04:11.39`	`jetscreamer`	`i saw somebody's notebook came with the cdrom on the primary`
`04:11.40`	`stew`	`novem: man fstab`
`04:11.44`	`novem`	`k thanks.`
`04:11.48`	`jetscreamer`	`nowadays i think they stopped caring`
`04:11.49`	`*** join/#debian guestish (~AName@guestish.user)`
`04:11.50`	`novem`	`thanks everyone!`
`04:12.15`	`jetscreamer`	`oh novem`
`04:12.21`	`*** join/#debian arkaine (~runev@213.161.236.77)`
`04:12.34`	`*** join/#debian laffen (~larslunde@ip68-227-82-145.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`04:12.35`	`jetscreamer`	`you may have a problem writhe to that fat32 unless you get fancy with the fstab`
`04:12.44`	`jetscreamer`	`s/writhe/writing/`
`04:12.59`	`arkaine`	`Whats the easiest way to change the timezone on my newly installed debian system?`
`04:13.07`	`jetscreamer`	`tzconfig maybe`
`04:13.07`	`stew`	`arkaine: tzconfig`
`04:13.39`	`takatumi`	`"Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key" after a screen -dr, what's wrong?`
`04:13.43`	`arkaine`	`thanks stew :)`
`04:13.50`	`jetscreamer`	`damn, it's freaking DEBIAN JEAPORDY BAYBEE`
`04:14.16`	`jetscreamer`	`heh i lose`
`04:14.19`	`jetscreamer`	`i can't spell`
`04:14.25`	`abrotman`	`!sing jetscreamer`
`04:14.28`	`abrotman`	`:(`
`04:14.28`	`stew`	`whois is /msg dpkg magic cookie, alex?`
`04:14.30`	`rdancer`	`!spell jetscreamer`
`04:14.30`	`dpkg`	`possible spellings for jetscreamer: jet screamer jet-screamer jets creamer jets-creamer`
`04:14.43`	`abrotman`	`heh .. creamer`
`04:14.49`	`rdancer`	`whoa`
`04:14.51`	`abrotman`	`wait ...`
`04:14.52`	`rdancer`	`!spell abrotman`
`04:14.53`	`dpkg`	`I can't find alternate spellings for 'abrotman'`
`04:14.53`	`abrotman`	`!spell abrotman`
`04:14.56`	`abrotman`	`oh well`
`04:15.03`	`jetscreamer`	`ab-rot-man`
`04:15.10`	`jetscreamer`	`a-robot-man`
`04:15.12`	`abrotman`	`wordplay?`
`04:15.26`	`stew`	`takatumi: does settings XAUTHORITY=~/.Xauthority fix it?`
`04:15.35`	`jetscreamer`	`you're not stupid, must be. :)`
`04:17.08`	`*** part/#debian kyano (~kyano@211.176.161.31)`
`04:17.21`	`*** join/#debian prock (~prock@CPE000d889f7084-CM014480102454.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`04:17.32`	`*** part/#debian laffen (~larslunde@ip68-227-82-145.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`04:17.37`	`rdancer`	`------`
`04:18.01`	`jetscreamer`	`hey what language is this in kyano's part message .. 도망갈래요`
`04:18.07`	`Guerin`	`korean`
`04:18.17`	`*** join/#debian laffenCalif (~larslunde@ip68-227-82-145.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`04:18.18`	`rdancer`	`Guerin: what does it mean?`
`04:18.22`	`jetscreamer`	`know offhand which font i should get?`
`04:18.26`	`*** join/#debian blahblah_ (~root@pD95314DD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`04:18.27`	`Guerin`	`it says do mang kal rae myo`
`04:18.34`	`Guerin`	`I don't know what it means though`
`04:18.35`	`rdancer`	`Guerin: mean`
`04:18.36`	`jetscreamer`	`i have those squares`
`04:18.44`	`jetscreamer`	`not real characters`
`04:18.46`	`SDFH_Linux`	`so do i`
`04:18.51`	`SDFH_Linux`	`how i get real characters`
`04:18.55`	`jetscreamer`	`install the font`
`04:18.56`	`Guerin`	`jetscreamer: use utf-8 and bitstream vera`
`04:18.57`	`jetscreamer`	`i guess`
`04:18.58`	`rdancer`	`jetscreamer: you sure a font will help? a mod chip with korean rather, maybe? 8-)`
`04:19.05`	`SDFH_Linux`	`not that i could read it anyway`
`04:19.06`	`SDFH_Linux`	`hehe`
`04:19.07`	`*** join/#debian rich_ (rich@c-67-166-91-96.client.comcast.net)`
`04:19.11`	`Guerin`	`you need utf-8`
`04:19.12`	`*** join/#debian frogger_ (~frogger_@roc-66-67-58-171.rochester.rr.com)`
`04:19.15`	`rich_`	`hi`
`04:19.17`	`SDFH_Linux`	`k`
`04:19.20`	`*** join/#debian laffen (~larslunde@ip68-227-82-145.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`04:19.35`	`SDFH_Linux`	`anyone can me how to make mounts auto mount`
`04:20.20`	`jetscreamer`	`i have bitstream vera, so why can't i see the font ? i'm iso8859-1 i believe... it has to be utf8?`
`04:20.30`	`rdancer`	`!tell SDFH_Linux about autofs`
`04:20.38`	`jetscreamer`	`i don't understand fonts btw cept they make letters`
`04:20.57`	`rdancer`	`!tell jetscreamer about fonts`
`04:21.01`	`*** join/#debian ub1k (shicho@otaku.freeshell.org)`
`04:21.02`	`rich_`	`SDFH_Linux tmpfs /tmp tmpfs users,rw,suid,dev,exec,auto,async 0 0`
`04:21.02`	`rdancer`	`8)`
`04:21.17`	`jetscreamer`	`thanks`
`04:21.23`	`rdancer`	`np`
`04:21.55`	`Guerin`	`jetscreamer: yeah, those korean characteers are utf-8 ; I tnkow thic because I can read them, and I'm using utf-8`
`04:21.56`	`jetscreamer`	`(gah first link i tried 'not found'`
`04:22.02`	`jetscreamer`	`)`
`04:22.14`	`rdancer`	`jetscreamer: eh, it worked for me on thursday or so`
`04:22.57`	`rdancer`	`jetscreamer: works; looking at the page atm`
`04:23.39`	`SDFH_Linux`	`so just add that rich to /etc/fstab/?`
`04:24.16`	`rdancer`	`SDFH_Linux: wtf? /etc/fstab is a regular file! /msg waytt SDFH_Linux`
`04:24.22`	`mwilson`	`jetscreamer: Vera is a unicode font?`
`04:24.25`	`rdancer`	`s/msg/msg dpkg/`
`04:24.44`	`rich_`	`SDFH_Linux Yes thats mine for my /tmp but the word "auto" makes ity auto mount`
`04:24.45`	`mwilson`	`jetscreamer: I didn't know it had any dignificant number of codepoints.`
`04:24.48`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: unicode is an encoding. you can recode vera to anything`
`04:24.52`	`mwilson`	`significant, even.`
`04:25.02`	`*** join/#debian DaNeon (Neon@201.249.8.4)`
`04:25.10`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: it doesn't have much glyphs, afaik`
`04:25.15`	`jetscreamer`	`no i said the first one i tried, not the first one`
`04:25.21`	`Guerin`	`yeah, BV sans* does unicode`
`04:25.23`	`mwilson`	`rdancer: And if it doesn't have the glyphs? Recoding does nothing.`
`04:25.29`	`Guerin`	`I'm seeing it now`
`04:25.46`	`DaNeon`	`anyone installed win4lin on debian????`
`04:26.13`	`*** join/#debian Tahoma (~apbech0@turing.tacoma.washington.edu)`
`04:26.24`	`dondelelcaro`	`!tell DaNeon about ep`
`04:26.35`	`kbrooks`	`!tell self about ep`
`04:26.44`	`dondelelcaro`	`kbrooks: you can just /msg dpkg ep`
`04:26.44`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: correct`
`04:26.44`	`rdancer`	`DaNeon: no`
`04:26.44`	`rdancer`	`!tell DaNeon about ask`
`04:26.48`	`mwilson`	`Guerin: Vera is such an ugly font, I ignore it whenever possible.`
`04:26.49`	`jetscreamer`	`mwilson, i have no idea. all i know is i have bitstream vera, i was told the korean fonts use it, and i wanted to know why i couldn't see it and that i would need utf-8 not iso8859-1 but you should lknow that because you read what was said before you tried to mwilsonize me`
`04:26.54`	`DaNeon`	`sorry`
`04:27.00`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: use /msg dpkg foo`
`04:27.07`	`*** join/#debian abyy_ (~chris_@c-24-7-9-145.client.comcast.net)`
`04:27.12`	`Guerin`	`mwilson: ah, it's alright. Plain and readable.`
`04:27.42`	`DaNeon`	`ok`
`04:28.09`	`DaNeon`	`how can i install win4lin on debian? cause i only have rpm's`
`04:28.20`	`takatumi`	`stew: was away for a few, did try "XAUTHORITY=~/.Xauthority", now the error is "Xlib: No protocol specified"`
`04:28.34`	`mwilson`	`Guerin: The proportional variants of it are useless, and why in the world would anyone use Sans Mono unless they didn't have Andale?`
`04:28.35`	`stew`	`hmm`
`04:29.12`	`mwilson`	`Personally, I think Bitstream gave Vera away because no one in their right mind would pay for it.`
`04:29.22`	`Guerin`	`what's useless about them? I don't get hung up on fonts, I just want something I can read pretty easily; BV sand[mono] does that fine.`
`04:29.41`	`takatumi`	`stew: restarted and switched WM's as well :/`
`04:30.16`	`*** join/#debian NoUse (~ejfiii@c-67-184-216-240.client.comcast.net)`
`04:30.50`	`*** join/#debian smits (~smits@p5480C063.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`04:31.27`	`jetscreamer`	`mwilson, so if i have bitstream vera, and i switch my stuff to use utf-8, i should be able to read 도망갈래요 , correct`
`04:31.49`	`mwilson`	`If it has the glyphs.`
`04:31.51`	`Guerin`	`jetscreamer: not sure why you're askinh mwilson, since he doesn't use that font...`
`04:32.03`	`jetscreamer`	`he stuck his nose in :)`
`04:32.03`	`mwilson`	`I dunno if it does, or not.`
`04:32.19`	`mwilson`	`jetscreamer: I asked a question.`
`04:32.49`	`mwilson`	`Oh, and I rendered an aesthetic opinion on Vera.`
`04:32.52`	`jetscreamer`	`yeah but given that i said earlier that i know nothing of fonts cept they make letters, i sensed mwilonizing`
`04:32.58`	`jetscreamer`	`s`
`04:33.02`	`Guerin`	`...`
`04:33.05`	`jetscreamer`	`but anyway, utf8 it is then`
`04:33.18`	`jetscreamer`	`sorry`
`04:33.37`	*** join/#debian Troy` (~troy@65-73-103-73.dsl1.wyg.mn.frontiernet.net)
`04:33.45`	`*** join/#debian rob\|lt (~rob\|lt@wnpgmb02dc1-178-114.dynamic.mts.net)`
`04:33.46`	`mwilson`	`The lucida fonts have plenty of codepoints, I generally use those when I want unicode stuffs.`
`04:33.47`	Troy`	`hello`
`04:34.07`	`stoned`	`packages.debian.org only lists stable/unstale packages for falcon's eye nethack variant, is it possible to use one of these packages on testing?`
`04:34.11`	`mwilson`	`Which admittedly isn't all that often... I have no problem living in a Latin-1 world.`
`04:34.20`	`jetscreamer`	`i can't see those characters`
`04:34.26`	`jetscreamer`	`just boxes`
`04:34.33`	`jetscreamer`	`the 'font not found' box i guess`
`04:34.36`	`jetscreamer`	`or thought`
`04:34.38`	`mwilson`	`Then the font doesn't have the glyphs.`
`04:35.10`	`mwilson`	`The ultimate unicode font is Arial Unicode... 24 mb font.`
`04:35.28`	`jetscreamer`	`i love arial but it never looks 'right' under linux for me`
`04:35.34`	Troy`	`Hey, i just installed debian on the network install. Now im trying to setup Xwindows and i cant figure out why apt-get wont get xfree or xorg`
`04:35.57`	`mwilson`	Troy`: xorg isn't packaged, there's no package named "xfree".
`04:36.13`	`stoned`	Troy`, apt-get install xserver-xfree86
`04:36.15`	`takatumi`	`jetscreamer: http://gpoppy.org/2004-12-04-073105_1024x768_scrot.png`
`04:36.15`	Troy`	`well could you tell me the package for xfree86?`
`04:36.16`	`mwilson`	Troy`: Nor is there an application named "Xwindows", but that's another issue.
`04:36.25`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Which will do nothing.`
`04:36.27`	Troy`	`well im going to use xfce4`
`04:36.28`	Troy`	`i know`
`04:36.48`	`stoned`	Troy`, apt-get install x-window-system or x-window-system-core
`04:36.50`	`mwilson`	Troy`: Use tasksel or install the x-window-system meta-package.
`04:36.50`	Troy`	`sorry my names are off..`
`04:36.53`	`stoned`	`mwilson, why not?`
`04:36.59`	`sean_micken`	`anyone know where i can get ahold of mplayerplug-in?`
`04:37.08`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Installing just a server is singularly useless.`
`04:37.08`	`stoned`	`it will intall all the dependeant packages`
`04:37.17`	`stew`	`sean_micken: /msg dpkg marillat`
`04:37.19`	`mwilson`	`Of which there aren't many.`
`04:37.19`	`kbrooks`	`gr.`
`04:37.21`	`stoned`	`he can then install a de/wm if he needs to`
`04:37.25`	`sean_micken`	`stew: apprently, marillat doesn't have it.`
`04:37.26`	`kbrooks`	`i need 'rpm'`
`04:37.34`	`acetech`	`is there any reason there are no debian packages for enlightment wm?`
`04:37.48`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: no, you don't.`
`04:38.00`	`DaNeon`	`do "rpm" exist on debian?`
`04:38.06`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Look at xserver-xfree86's dependencies before making silly statements.`
`04:38.10`	`thoreauputic`	`!find enlightenment sarge`
`04:38.12`	`dpkg`	`Debian Package Listing of 'enlightenment' (6 shown): enlightenment ;; enlightenment-data ;; enlightenment-theme-bluesteel ;; enlightenment-theme-brushedmetal ;; enlightenment-theme-ganymede ;; enlightenment-theme-shinymetal.`
`04:38.13`	`DaNeon`	`i mean rpm command line utility`
`04:38.17`	`kbrooks`	`Guerin, it is for win4lin which i need to install`
`04:38.20`	`simonrvn`	`DaNeon: not a natural occurence, no`
`04:38.24`	`jetscreamer`	`fuckin cat just puked and i had to clean it up`
`04:38.26`	`mwilson`	`acetech: Because you're clueless? There are.`
`04:38.26`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: use alien`
`04:38.27`	`acetech`	`DaNeon, it can if you install it but it is not recommended`
`04:38.28`	`simonrvn`	`DaNeon: use alien`
`04:38.30`	`kbrooks`	`for internet explorer`
`04:38.35`	`kbrooks`	`Guerin, alien?`
`04:38.39`	`thoreauputic`	`acetech: your search skills need work, methinks`
`04:38.45`	`jetscreamer`	`yeah alien`
`04:38.48`	`Guerin`	`hahaha`
`04:38.52`	`kbrooks`	`can i alias it to 'rpm'?`
`04:38.53`	`Guerin`	`internet exploiter on debian`
`04:38.54`	`DaNeon`	`what is alien?`
`04:38.56`	`Guerin`	`what a great idea`
`04:39.00`	`kbrooks`	`Guerin, i have to`
`04:39.04`	`jetscreamer`	`alien converts rpm's`
`04:39.07`	`Guerin`	`like putting kerossene in your BMW`
`04:39.11`	`simonrvn`	`DaNeon: apt-get install alien, man alien`
`04:39.11`	`acetech`	`lol, yeah.... i spelled it wrong thinking it was enlightment`
`04:39.12`	`Guerin`	`s/ss/s/`
`04:39.14`	`jetscreamer`	`maybe not what you are looking for`
`04:39.25`	`kbrooks`	`i said i had to Guerin`
`04:39.30`	`*** join/#debian yhg (~yhg@pool-68-162-248-24.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`04:39.32`	`DaNeon`	`ok :S`
`04:39.32`	`jetscreamer`	`converts em to .debs then you have to still install the .deb`
`04:39.34`	`stoned`	`mwilson, it wasn't a silly statement`
`04:39.36`	`Guerin`	`!pity kbrooks`
`04:39.36`	`dpkg`	`I pity da fool kbrooks!`
`04:39.58`	`kbrooks`	`god its not a big deal`
`04:40.10`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Except that it was, of course.`
`04:40.11`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: if it isn't, why is it causing you such trouble?`
`04:40.17`	`kbrooks`	`jetscreamer, win4lin setup needs 'rpm'`
`04:40.22`	`*** join/#debian Nurbs (tom@pD95F9967.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`04:40.24`	`stoned`	`mwilson, it was rather a continuation of the previous question, "why not?"`
`04:40.28`	`jetscreamer`	`won't work`
`04:40.32`	`jetscreamer`	`i don't htink`
`04:40.40`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: alien PROVIDES rpm`
`04:40.41`	`dondelelcaro`	`kbrooks: so install rpm then.`
`04:40.55`	`jetscreamer`	`alien converts, will it install also?`
`04:40.57`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: christ`
`04:40.58`	`kbrooks`	`Guerin, automatically? on demand?`
`04:41.06`	`dondelelcaro`	`kbrooks: but then don't come talking to us if using win4lin totally breaks everything`
`04:41.08`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: you want me to wipe your arse for you, too?`
`04:41.17`	`kbrooks`	`Guerin, no`
`04:41.31`	`kbrooks`	`dondelelcaro, i wont`
`04:41.40`	`jetscreamer`	`yeah man alien`
`04:41.49`	`jetscreamer`	`you need to alias it -i probably`
`04:41.53`	`Guerin`	`kbrooks: /msg dpkg depends alien`
`04:41.55`	`DaNeon`	`i found a way of installing win4lin on debian using the win4lin rpm: # rpm --install --nodeps Win4Lin-5.5.11a-d.i386.rpm`
`04:42.12`	`DaNeon`	`that's why i asked about rpm cmd line util.`
`04:42.12`	`Guerin`	`DaNeon: good for breakage`
`04:42.26`	`DaNeon`	`:O`
`04:42.26`	`Guerin`	`!moron people who use rpm instead of alien`
`04:42.26`	`dpkg`	`people who use rpm instead of alien: You are moron #66`
`04:42.33`	`jetscreamer`	`why use win4lin btw`
`04:42.35`	`DaNeon`	`ok`
`04:42.48`	`*** part/#debian httpdss (~kenny@r200-125-41-58-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)`
`04:42.59`	`DaNeon`	`to eliminate dual boot`
`04:43.14`	`Guerin`	`jetscreamer: so he can run exploiter and mardam-bey's irc rootshell server, oops, I mean mirc`
`04:43.29`	`kbrooks`	`you dont want to DaNeon`
`04:43.32`	`stoned`	`packages.debian.org only lists stable/unstale packages for falcon's eye nethack variant, is it possible to use one of these packages on testing? And how, is it advisable to do so, (changing sources.list to get the package)?`
`04:43.42`	`DaNeon`	`:O`
`04:43.42`	`jetscreamer`	`DaNeon, jsut dual boot`
`04:43.55`	`DaNeon`	`why?`
`04:44.00`	`Guerin`	`or just don't dual-boot`
`04:44.02`	`DaNeon`	`win4lin is that bad?`
`04:44.16`	`jetscreamer`	`well whatever you wanna do is the way to go, but seems kinda silly to me`
`04:44.24`	`Guerin`	`stoned: just grab the package with wget and install it with dpkg -i`
`04:44.31`	`stoned`	`ok`
`04:44.36`	`stoned`	`i was wondering if manual install was ok`
`04:44.38`	`stoned`	`thanks then`
`04:44.45`	`Guerin`	`stoned: if deps fail, /msg dpkg simple sid backport`
`04:45.31`	`*** join/#debian ionrock (~ionrock@pool-141-151-237-149.alt.east.verizon.net)`
`04:45.42`	`jetscreamer`	`and if it was gaming, waste of resources maybe`
`04:46.15`	`ionrock`	`hello I was working on getting my synaptic touch pad working and it seems the driver (even when compiled from source) will not talk to /dev/psaux?`
`04:46.19`	`jetscreamer`	`rebooting to start your game was the way to go, back in the stone ages`
`04:46.24`	`Narg`	`X is Copylefted (aka is the article Im reading outdated?)?`
`04:46.42`	`ionrock`	`I have never had this problem before so I am surprised that it is not working.`
`04:46.46`	`Guerin`	`Narg: ?`
`04:47.09`	`jetscreamer`	`probably the xfree license thing`
`04:47.19`	`Narg`	`Guerin: ? Its a fairly simple question. Is X window system copylefted :P`
`04:47.37`	`Guerin`	`Narg: x window system doesn't exist.`
`04:47.39`	`jetscreamer`	`narg, that's a long story check xfree86.whatever`
`04:47.46`	`jetscreamer`	`.com?`
`04:47.47`	`jetscreamer`	`.org?`
`04:47.49`	`DaNeon`	`other point: clipboard interoperability between ubuntu and win4lin's windows`
`04:47.52`	`Narg`	`.org probably`
`04:47.58`	`jetscreamer`	`#ubuntu`
`04:47.59`	`Guerin`	`Narg: the X11 protocol is under a bsd-style license, which is free but not copyleft`
`04:48.04`	`Narg`	`ah`
`04:48.17`	`Narg`	`I guess X != X11?`
`04:48.23`	`Guerin`	`Narg: but this is quite a complicated issue`
`04:48.29`	`Guerin`	`Narg: X is short for X11`
`04:48.39`	`*** part/#debian skyisblue (skyisblue@219.254.192.23)`
`04:48.40`	`Guerin`	`Narg: in current usage`
`04:48.45`	`jetscreamer`	`but there was a new license recently and everybody bitched and want to go to x.org i don't rem the exact de4tails`
`04:48.50`	`Narg`	`GuerinNarg: x window system doesn't exist.`
`04:48.54`	`Narg`	`X11 is a window system no?`
`04:48.55`	`Guerin`	`jetscreamer: xfree86 != X`
`04:48.56`	`ionrock`	`speaking of x ;) does anyone know why a driver might not be able to use a specific entry in/dev`
`04:49.02`	`Guerin`	`Narg: no, it's a protocol`
`04:49.03`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 720] by debhelper`
`04:49.07`	`*** join/#debian adker (~adker@67.136.214.201)`
`04:49.21`	`Narg`	`hpprmf... coulda sworn it was a window system :p`
`04:49.25`	`jetscreamer`	`X is some green thing in a directory`
`04:49.34`	`*** join/#debian Xenguy (~gnu@66.11.174.96)`
`04:49.37`	`Guerin`	`Narg: many window systems are implemented using this protocol`
`04:49.55`	`*** join/#debian Jebediah (~jebediah@192.198.53.217)`
`04:50.15`	`peterS`	`Narg: there is X11 the protocol, and X11R6 the sample implementation, and XFree86 the variant of X11R6 engineered specifically for x86 machines (but later ported to other architectures). and now X.org, a fork of XFree86 intended to remain under the original X license and also intended to escape the hegemony of David Dawes`
`04:50.22`	`peterS`	`Narg: any questions? (:`
`04:50.32`	`Narg`	`:p`
`04:50.37`	`jetscreamer`	`thanks pete`
`04:50.42`	`*** join/#debian JesusCH (~JesusCH@12.173.106.112)`
`04:50.49`	`jetscreamer`	`sample implementation?`
`04:50.50`	`Narg`	`Sounds like X == The problem with code forks`
`04:50.52`	`ionrock`	`when is sid going to get x.org?`
`04:50.55`	`Guerin`	`peterS++`
`04:51.02`	`Guerin`	`ionrock: wir`
`04:51.09`	`jetscreamer`	`like "here, code on dude, from this"`
`04:51.16`	`stew`	`ionrock: probably never`
`04:51.22`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: the original X11R0 through X11R6 are known as the "sample implementation". you can implement the X protocol without any of that, just hardly anyone has done so - they've adapted the sample implementation instead`
`04:51.22`	`stew`	`ionrock: oh`
`04:51.23`	`*** join/#debian novem (novem@c-24-126-27-128.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`04:51.24`	`Guerin`	`Narg: no, X is a great example of how and why code forking is a beautful thing`
`04:51.27`	`stoned`	`Guerin, i got as far as putting a deb src for unstable in sources.list and updated, apt-cache wont return the package name, falcon nethack what do i do now`
`04:51.31`	`stew`	`ionrock: sid, i could have sworn he said sarge`
`04:51.36`	`Narg`	`Why is that Guerin?`
`04:51.42`	`simonrvn`	`i've heard anything from "after sarge releases" to "never"`
`04:51.45`	`Guerin`	`stoned: I didn't tell you to do that. I told you NOT to do that.`
`04:51.46`	`stew`	`ionrock: sid will get it after sarge releases`
`04:51.57`	`novem`	`could anyone help, chown novem /mnt/c =doesnt work, what's the correct use of this?`
`04:51.57`	`stew`	`ionrock: (at the earliest)`
`04:51.59`	`stoned`	`Guerin, you said /msg simple sid backport thingy`
`04:52.01`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: thanks to the wide open license terms, I'd venture to say nobody has written a major implementation of X without borrowing most of the Sample Implementation`
`04:52.11`	`stoned`	`Guerin, are you messin with me :(`
`04:52.14`	`ionrock`	`well at least there is a plan to move to it, that is good`
`04:52.20`	`jetscreamer`	`like a code snippet but a really big one`
`04:52.36`	*** part/#debian Troy` (~troy@65-73-103-73.dsl1.wyg.mn.frontiernet.net)
`04:52.39`	`Narg`	`Guerin, continue why code forks are a great thing.`
`04:52.45`	`Guerin`	`Narg: because it means users and distributors aren't locked into any given implementation, and that new implementations don't have to start from scratch. Dawes change the xfree86 license, and people said "we can't accept that; we're taking the last good implementation and using it for your own version"`
`04:53.00`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: yeah. actually intended to be a complete implementation. and used as such. XFree86 supports a lot more hardware, though`
`04:53.33`	`Guerin`	`stoned: oh, deb-src`
`04:53.48`	`jetscreamer`	`ah so they just added on stuff and became the popular one, somebody got a fat head and now it's on to xorg`
`04:53.51`	`Narg`	`Am I misunderstanding code forks here? Cork forks are when some group or something splits, or something similar, and because of that, a project is divided. Thats not freedom to use it for whatever.`
`04:53.55`	`Guerin`	`stoned: sorry, I misread. apt-get source <name of package>`
`04:54.06`	`Guerin`	`Narg: yes, it is.`
`04:54.07`	`Narg`	`cork forks :p`
`04:54.29`	`simonrvn`	`corks on forks`
`04:54.35`	`Narg`	`forks made of cork?`
`04:54.44`	`simonrvn`	`too bendy and breaky`
`04:54.46`	`stoned`	`Guerin, thats the problem, i can't find the package name, i have this though, falconseye-data_1.9.3-13_all.deb.`
`04:54.59`	`*** part/#debian JesusCH (~JesusCH@12.173.106.112)`
`04:55.01`	`jetscreamer`	`go ask alice`
`04:55.03`	`novem`	`could any of you give me the command to change owner of /mnt/c to user novem?`
`04:55.05`	`Narg`	`You can be like CRAP, the wine bottles overflowing, and stick your fork in it though`
`04:55.07`	`*** join/#debian scorphus (~scorphus@scorphus.user)`
`04:55.12`	`jetscreamer`	`man chown novem`
`04:55.15`	`Guerin`	`stoned: did you try dpkg -i ?`
`04:55.26`	`*** part/#debian scorphus (~scorphus@scorphus.user)`
`04:55.26`	`jetscreamer`	`chown novem:novem /mnt/c`
`04:55.28`	`novem`	`im to stupid for these manuals jetscreamer ;o( i tried that already`
`04:55.29`	`stoned`	`no`
`04:55.32`	`novem`	`thanks`
`04:55.36`	`stoned`	`should i try that first?`
`04:55.40`	`*** join/#debian xoz (~xoz@p1188-ipad35souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp)`
`04:55.46`	`Guerin`	`stoned: I did tell you to.`
`04:55.49`	`jetscreamer`	`novem wait`
`04:55.50`	`stoned`	`oh`
`04:55.52`	`novem`	`mhm?`
`04:56.03`	`stoned`	`thas right`
`04:56.03`	`jetscreamer`	`you can't write to the vfat like i said eh`
`04:56.08`	`mwilson`	`novem: What's that supposed to accomplish?`
`04:56.10`	`stoned`	`brainfart, yo udid tell me`
`04:56.16`	`Narg`	`man == Doable. I went from a Windroid to a person able to use the CLI easily and usefully in <30 days from them :p`
`04:56.18`	`Guerin`	`stoned: the _all tells me it's for all architectures, and so is probably easily portable, based on perl or something - and should work fine.`
`04:56.30`	`novem`	`Im trying to enter my vfat mounts from user not root. and give user:novem r/w acess`
`04:56.37`	`jetscreamer`	`you can't write to the vfat like i said eh`
`04:56.40`	`*** join/#debian pipelined (9e94dd2396@pcp01052132pcs.muncie01.in.comcast.net)`
`04:56.47`	`stoned`	`ah, learn something new every hour`
`04:56.48`	`stoned`	`:D`
`04:56.51`	`simonrvn`	`Guerin: it means non-arch specific files`
`04:56.57`	`Guerin`	`yeah, I know`
`04:56.58`	`novem`	`Jetscreamer , no I cant write , let alone enter the mounts from this user ;o(`
`04:56.58`	`*** join/#debian Delete (~sanemmm_@n219079051155.netvigator.com)`
`04:57.00`	`jetscreamer`	`way back there`
`04:57.09`	`jetscreamer`	`what 30 min ago i told you`
`04:57.14`	`jetscreamer`	`:)`
`04:57.26`	`novem`	`There mounted correctly.`
`04:57.37`	`*** join/#debian gen (~gen@66.169.152.101.ts46v-10.otnd2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com)`
`04:57.44`	`novem`	`just having trouble acessing them from user , i can get on them fine with root.`
`04:57.46`	`jetscreamer`	`something like this`
`04:57.48`	`jetscreamer`	`rw,users,auto,exec,suid,gid=60,uid=1001,umask=000`
`04:57.59`	`Narg`	`hrm... does GNU come accross as a great idea and good implementation, but slightly fanatical in some aspects to anyone else? :p`
`04:58.09`	`jetscreamer`	`in the fstab line`
`04:58.13`	`mwilson`	`novem: So mount them properly. Setting the owner on the mount point isn't going to accomplish anything.`
`04:58.29`	`novem`	`Ahh , okay.`
`04:58.38`	`rich_`	`Narg No, everyone who knows it, loves it`
`04:58.39`	`jetscreamer`	`change the uid & gid or whatever`
`04:58.47`	`novem`	`thought that might fix it, change ownership in the fstab?`
`04:58.48`	`cafuego`	`FUCK FUCK FUCK`
`04:58.53`	`stoned`	`is there a way to update my gnome panel menus without having to login/logout, should I try killall gnome-panel and start it againk, or is that not a good way? I also have update-menus but that only works on the debian menu section`
`04:58.54`	`jetscreamer`	`man fstab and man mount`
`04:58.57`	`novem`	`k`
`04:59.01`	`jetscreamer`	`!fuck cafuego`
`04:59.02`	`Xenguy`	`Narg: there is nothing inherently fanatical about GNU - they have earned respect for their significant contributions`
`04:59.03`	`Narg`	`ah, of course rich_ :p`
`04:59.04`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 714] by debhelper`
`04:59.08`	`Narg`	`tell that to bill gates :p`
`04:59.11`	`cafuego`	`Can I just note I just had a crash I cna enter into the most fucked-up crashes category?`
`04:59.19`	`*** join/#debian httpdss (~kenny@r200-125-41-58-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)`
`04:59.23`	`jetscreamer`	`hospe`
`04:59.24`	`cafuego`	`the ATX power connector is molten and FUSED to the mobo`
`04:59.29`	`jetscreamer`	`lksdfajshfhdssd sdbah you know`
`04:59.29`	`Xenguy`	`!fuck Bill Gates`
`04:59.31`	`mwilson`	`Wow.`
`04:59.35`	`JoePenguin`	`cafuego: lightning strike?`
`04:59.39`	`pipelined`	`Narg: Fanatacism appears to have been a successful strategy.`
`04:59.39`	`mwilson`	`PS went a little wonky?`
`04:59.40`	`cafuego`	`JoePenguin: Nope`
`04:59.40`	`Narg`	`Im reading the GNU pages atm. You shouldnt you any software thats not free? Does that mean I should burn my gamecube cause I dont have source to ssbm?`
`04:59.40`	`jetscreamer`	`dpkg got a fuck upgrade`
`04:59.40`	`dpkg`	`bugger all, i dunno, jetscreamer`
`04:59.47`	`jetscreamer`	`heh bugger`
`04:59.51`	`jetscreamer`	`!dict bugger`
`04:59.53`	`Narg`	`shouldn't use*`
`04:59.53`	`dpkg`	`Dictionary 'bugger' (1 shown; 3 total): practice anal sex upon [syn: {sodomize}, {sodomise}].`
`04:59.57`	`JoePenguin`	`cafuego: take a picture`
`04:59.57`	`cafuego`	`mwilson: From the looks of it. Dunno how old it is, actually.`
`04:59.58`	`*** join/#debian ctgPi (ctgPi@200.199.11.73)`
`05:00.08`	`mwilson`	`Narg: You should use what YOU want to use and fsck the FSF.`
`05:00.18`	`cafuego`	`JoePenguin: I will, when I can get a replacement mobo+psu`
`05:00.22`	`*** join/#debian Nurbs (tom@p509271B6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`05:00.27`	`Narg`	`Thats a given, but Im looking from thier point of view :p`
`05:00.43`	`Xenguy`	`Narg: one doesn't have to agree 100% with RMS, but a respect and appreciation for his contributions is warranted IMO`
`05:00.47`	`mwilson`	`An orbital Athlon? :)`
`05:00.47`	`cafuego`	`spare too`
`05:00.48`	`jetscreamer`	`spare?`
`05:01.07`	`Narg`	`I use whatever the fsck I want, and let the organization sway me with good ideas. (FSF is one of them)`
`05:01.11`	`cafuego`	`mwilson: It's at L2, nice and safe, waiting for that new space telescope ;-)`
`05:01.22`	`Abnix`	`how can I make it so a ntfs partition can beread by a normal user?`
`05:01.28`	`novem`	`here's what i got in fstab after vfat, user,rw,exec`
`05:01.33`	`*** join/#debian libv_ (~libv@96-163.245.81.adsl.skynet.be)`
`05:01.38`	`mwilson`	`Abnix: Mount it that way, of course.`
`05:01.43`	`Xenguy`	`Narg: it is a question of acknowledgement and respect - if you don't get that, then there is nothing more I really need to say ;-)`
`05:01.44`	`pipelined`	`Abnix: Read the "mount" man page. I believe the options are uid=foo,gid=foo`
`05:01.50`	`novem`	`replace with the options you listed previously jetscreamer? ;o)`
`05:01.57`	`pipelined`	`Abnix: Or perhaps you want umask=foo.`
`05:02.05`	`Abnix`	`pipelined: thank you`
`05:02.13`	`novem`	`ohh uid=userid gip=groupid i get it`
`05:02.21`	`jetscreamer`	`yeah`
`05:02.24`	`novem`	`that helps alot haha`
`05:02.30`	`Narg`	`I do respect/acknowledge them Xenguy, if you dont get that, you misread me. I think the FSF is a great organization and has contributied much to the world.`
`05:02.34`	`jetscreamer`	`60 is games`
`05:02.43`	`Xenguy`	`Narg: That's fair`
`05:02.49`	`mwilson`	`Yeah, but RMS really needs to go away.`
`05:03.08`	`Xenguy`	`mwilson: I disagree, but that's OK too :-)`
`05:03.28`	`Narg`	`I just disagree with some of thier ideals, aka all non free software is evil basicly.`
`05:03.29`	`mwilson`	`Xenguy: Don't you ever get tired of his hypocrisy?`
`05:03.38`	`*** join/#debian akusarujin (~jeff@653477hfc54.tampabay.rr.com)`
`05:03.38`	`takatumi`	`Guerin: me too :)`
`05:03.44`	`mwilson`	`I did, a long time ago.`
`05:03.45`	`Narg`	`mwhahah`
`05:03.45`	`Xenguy`	`Guerin: resistance is futile ;-)`
`05:03.50`	`rich_`	`I watch the news every night, its full of idiots. I have yet to see rms there. Seems to me people over react to him.`
`05:03.51`	`Narg`	`You will be assimilated`
`05:04.12`	`rich_`	`He's just a guy, you know`
`05:04.24`	`Xenguy`	`mwilson: I just don't agree with him 100% - that doesn't detract from my respect for his significant contributions - very significant`
`05:04.26`	`Guerin`	`ok, andale mono is fugly`
`05:04.27`	`Abnix`	`pipelined: thanks much, the umask thing did it (o:`
`05:04.31`	`Guerin`	`at least in this tiny size`
`05:04.33`	`simonrvn`	`yeh, and gwb is "just a guy" too....`
`05:04.46`	`Narg`	`What the rest dilemna of life is why #debian has 700 users, but like 10 active ones at a time.`
`05:04.56`	`mwilson`	`Andale is the one true monospace font. :)`
`05:04.59`	`Narg`	`real dilemna*`
`05:05.03`	`novem`	`so what gid and uid do i use for normal user=novem?`
`05:05.04`	`peterS`	`dilemma`
`05:05.10`	`novem`	`i dont get the numbers ;o/`
`05:05.17`	`peterS`	`novem: "getent passwd novem"`
`05:05.18`	`pipelined`	`novem: vipw`
`05:05.52`	`Narg`	`Well, the #debian question competes why on Slashdot peaple are argueing that Virii is not a word.`
`05:05.55`	`rich_`	`If you don't search for something rms wrote you will probably never see anything he wrote. And yet people dig it out and crow about it like it was the bible or something. He is just a guy who wrote some things... get over it`
`05:06.11`	`novem`	`im still confused. is there a help channel for idiots? ;o/`
`05:06.20`	`Guerin`	`mwilson: there's a huge gap between 10 and 11, though - 10 is too small, 11 is way too big`
`05:06.25`	`Guerin`	`11 looks lovely, though`
`05:06.32`	`peterS`	`Narg: what's the argument? of course virii is not a word`
`05:06.35`	`mwilson`	`Narg: Why do you think anyone cares what Slashcrappers think?`
`05:06.38`	`Guerin`	`viruxen`
`05:06.46`	`*** join/#debian kurumin (~kurumin@200-180-231-135.nhoce205.dial.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`05:06.52`	`Guerin`	`viruxen is the plural of [computer] virus`
`05:06.57`	`dondelelcaro`	`virainius`
`05:07.02`	`Narg`	`of course its Viruxen, why has I been decieved for so long?!`
`05:07.16`	`stoned`	`Guerin, Failed to execute child process "/usr/lib/games/falconseye" (Permission denied)`
`05:07.38`	`Xenguy`	`rich_: he got in on the ground floor (as they say); and he was (is?) someone with vision (strong vision) - he has help the cause of free software (FOSS) without question - I acknowledge these contributions, and now we all reap the benefits of his efforts (amongst others)`
`05:07.39`	`stoned`	`what do i need to set chmod to, if you can tell me`
`05:07.45`	`Guerin`	`stoned: check the perms on that file/dir`
`05:07.50`	`stoned`	`do i need to chmod the whole dir`
`05:07.56`	`stoned`	`ah`
`05:08.08`	`Xenguy`	`rich_: (and I use brackets too much ;-)`
`05:08.23`	`rich_`	`rms reminds me of salamon rushdie. He had some opinionions, that no one really cared about until all of a sudden a bunch of people decided he was satan :)`
`05:08.24`	`dondelelcaro`	`at least you're not using braces...`
`05:08.27`	`mwilson`	`I use $ xterm -fa monotype.com:minspace=true -fs 8`
`05:08.32`	`*** join/#debian fraxtal2 (~fraxtal@0-1pool106-235.nas6.savannah2.ga.us.da.qwest.net)`
`05:08.58`	`*** join/#debian coywolf (~coywolf@218.24.169.209)`
`05:09.08`	`dondelelcaro`	`s/t/T/`
`05:09.11`	`Xenguy`	`rich_: heh - well he has made a difference one way or another - that is undeniable`
`05:09.12`	`mwilson`	`-fs 12 if I want a bigger terminal.`
`05:09.34`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: I've never liked fixed.`
`05:09.42`	`Narg`	`I think someone should form a religion around him, and call him the next prophet. RMS, prophet of Gnuism. Cause his words are obviously the source of all truth. [/sarcasm :)]`
`05:09.58`	`*** join/#debian iratsu (~iratsu@modemcable157.255-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`05:10.02`	`mwilson`	`Narg: No, no, that's ESR. At least, in his own mind.`
`05:10.05`	`dondelelcaro`	`mwilson: it's not bad looking at gigantic point sizes... but I can see why someone wouldn't like it at smaller ones...`
`05:10.09`	`Narg`	`ESR?`
`05:10.13`	`novem`	`is there a command to list the current uid and gid for the user account im on?`
`05:10.14`	`Xenguy`	`Narg: I thought there already was a religion (the Church of Emacs?)`
`05:10.19`	`dondelelcaro`	`!esr`
`05:10.19`	`dpkg`	`methinks esr is a very clever Linux d00d with lots of very interesting philosophical and political texts. a guy who has some ideas about guns and who can't figure out CUPS. The geezer who wrote Cathedral and Bazaar.. Eric S. Raymond, or somebody whose sgeigerbot's computer thinks about when it boots: "ESR value before enabling vector: 00000000"`
`05:10.20`	`Narg`	`ah yes`
`05:10.33`	`mwilson`	`novem: Yes, you were given several last time you asked the same question.`
`05:10.51`	`dondelelcaro`	`novem: id; amongst others.`
`05:10.52`	`Xenguy`	`novem: id`
`05:11.10`	`novem`	`thanks. sory mwilson, I cant read the text to well`
`05:11.15`	`mwilson`	`RMS has opinions I don't agree with. ESR is a nut.`
`05:11.17`	`*** part/#debian iratsu (~iratsu@modemcable157.255-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`05:11.19`	`stoned`	`Guerin, drwxr-xr-x is on the file/dir both in /usr/lib/games, man chmod doesn't tell me about user permissions, where can I find those`
`05:11.41`	`*** join/#debian foof (~103360BC3@ip68-111-74-81.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`05:11.45`	`stoned`	`i meant file perms*`
`05:11.50`	`Narg`	`wouldn't it all be ironic if RMS was actually a PR agent of M$'s, who was hired to sow chaos?`
`05:11.55`	`Guerin`	`stoned: that file is +x for everyone, so that doesn't seem to be the issue`
`05:11.57`	`Narg`	`or not M$, but possibly aliens :p`
`05:12.01`	`Xenguy`	`mwilson: statistically, we all have opinions that many don't agree with - that is not a necessary cause of invalidation (as it were)`
`05:12.09`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Where'd you get the idea that 'man chmod' didn't discuss file permissions?`
`05:12.14`	`Guerin`	`stoned: without knowing what it's trying to do, I don't how really what the problem is`
`05:12.29`	`stoned`	`mwilson, because i went though it`
`05:12.35`	`*** join/#debian mlh407 (~chatzilla@dsl093-001-038.det1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`05:12.39`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Don't lie.`
`05:13.12`	`stoned`	`dude`
`05:13.16`	`stoned`	`whatever`
`05:13.27`	`stoned`	`if you think that shit makes sense to anyone spekaing english`
`05:13.29`	`stoned`	`your a fool`
`05:13.39`	`stoned`	`just gimme time ...`
`05:13.39`	`mwilson`	`stoned: It's like you think no one else has access to the same man page as you or something.`
`05:13.49`	`rich_`	`Yea, when you heard about rms you shouldnt think "he said this" or "he wrote that" but instead think "he build this" or "he did that" because his primary occupation is not writeing opinions, thats wht judges do, you may target judges if you want.`
`05:13.54`	`*** part/#debian novem (novem@c-24-126-27-128.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`05:14.01`	`*** join/#debian maebmij (~maebmij@adsl-3-240.swiftdsl.com.au)`
`05:14.08`	`dondelelcaro`	`stoned: surely it makes sense if you can actually read english... I mean, how the hell else do you think we learned it?`
`05:14.09`	`mwilson`	`NAME`
`05:14.09`	`mwilson`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:14.16`	`Xenguy`	`rich_: er, not to you`
`05:14.19`	`stoned`	`dondelelcaro, :) sarcasm`
`05:14.25`	`mwilson`	`But, of course, it doesn't talk about file permissions.`
`05:14.29`	`dondelelcaro`	`stoned: I even quoted the relevant section to you straight out of man chmod.`
`05:14.35`	`stoned`	`i was trying to find out in depth explanation of the octal digits perms`
`05:14.55`	`dondelelcaro`	`stoned: and guess what! The section I quoted is what discusses that.`
`05:14.57`	`stoned`	`cuz the man page isn't makin too much sense on that`
`05:15.12`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Except that it does, of course.`
`05:15.26`	`stoned`	`mwilson, not everyone is as smart as you`
`05:15.29`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: I don't like info. Never have, never will.`
`05:15.32`	`stoned`	`you knwo more about linux`
`05:15.34`	`stoned`	`well good for you`
`05:15.40`	`stoned`	`fell happy and get off your high fucking horse`
`05:15.43`	`dondelelcaro`	`mwilson: yeah, lots of people don't... shrug`
`05:15.55`	`mwilson`	`stoned: What does knowing Linux have to do with it? I can read and do elementary-level math.`
`05:16.15`	`ChrysalisM`	`who here started running Linux the earliest`
`05:16.22`	`stoned`	`once again, retarded argument, if your on a period feel free to go on about it, im done`
`05:16.23`	`mwilson`	`ChrysalisM: Who cares?`
`05:16.24`	`dondelelcaro`	`ChrysalisM: who cares?`
`05:16.26`	`ChrysalisM`	`for e.g.`
`05:16.56`	`mwilson`	`ChrysalisM: There's always someone who started before you did, problem solved, discussion over.`
`05:17.06`	`ChrysalisM`	`I was just curious`
`05:17.12`	`dondelelcaro`	`Guerin: heh`
`05:17.24`	`ChrysalisM`	`I started with RH 3.03`
`05:17.31`	`*** join/#debian karsten (~karsten@host-66-81-220-50.rev.o1.com)`
`05:17.38`	`mwilson`	`And then he goes on about it anyway...`
`05:17.47`	`rich_`	`Its not really a question of who is better its a question of who you can help. Some people set the bar high, they wont (or cant) help anyone who isn't already very smart) . Some people can. You can't force people to help someone who they don't have the tools to help`
`05:18.14`	`rich_`	`You cant just assume that everyone has the ability to be nice`
`05:18.28`	`gen`	`what's this "nice" you speak of?`
`05:18.40`	`TheStar`	`rich_: EVERYONE has an ability to be nice.`
`05:18.42`	`dondelelcaro`	`gen: man nice`
`05:18.48`	`gen`	`haha`
`05:18.57`	`stoned`	`mwilson, its easier to tell him how long you've been using it than to say that long defensive statement to ChrysalisM`
`05:19.00`	`mwilson`	`I saw more Windows error messages in the airport when I was flying this Sunday than I was really comfortable with. :)`
`05:19.07`	`stoned`	`you need to stop being a dick`
`05:19.17`	`mwilson`	`stoned: You need to grow a clue.`
`05:19.24`	`ChrysalisM`	`don't worry i dont care either`
`05:20.05`	`stoned`	`mwilson, u need to take that stick out of your bum and relax, take a deep breath, and just try and relax`
`05:20.19`	`stoned`	`too uptight n assholish bro`
`05:20.23`	`stoned`	`bad for your health`
`05:20.24`	`stoned`	`:)`
`05:20.35`	`Xenguy`	`Guerin: I didn't realize linux was even around in 89`
`05:20.36`	`mwilson`	`stoned: Oh, the stupdity quotient doesn't upset my relaxation... I expect it.`
`05:20.43`	`*** join/#debian kevix (~kevix@user-2ive713.dialup.mindspring.com)`
`05:20.55`	`stoned`	`what is stupid about asking for indepth information on octal permissions`
`05:21.07`	`stoned`	`i know what you are referring to`
`05:21.12`	`stoned`	`don't you ever let go`
`05:21.13`	`stoned`	`geez`
`05:21.46`	`mwilson`	`stoned: You brought it up again, not me. I've already put you in the appropriate pile.`
`05:21.50`	`stoned`	`im gonna go search the net, have fun attacking my selfesteem`
`05:22.01`	`Xenguy`	`stoned: no worries - /ignore is the real IRC trump card ;-)`
`05:22.20`	`stoned`	`Xenguy, word :)`
`05:22.30`	`rich_`	`I don't know how much pain any particulliar other person has to suffer every day. I know there is a lot of handicapped people on the internet, I'm one of them, some of them can barely type. Some cant make their own coffe and some are unable to think of a single nice thing to say.`
`05:22.52`	`mwilson`	`Xenguy: It always amazes me how many idiots go on whining after you're no longer talking to them, then dance around waving /ignore.`
`05:23.03`	`stoned`	`rich_, my older brother is handicapped, fuckin accidenet made him into an asshole :(`
`05:23.32`	`stoned`	`lol`
`05:23.34`	`*** join/#debian Nigel (~nigel@osama-bin-laden.user)`
`05:23.40`	`stoned`	`mwilson, its like your on the rag, fuckin let go already`
`05:23.47`	`Xenguy`	`mwilson: I /ignore when I need to - simple. Yer included, like everyone else (the great leveler ;-)`
`05:23.55`	`Guerin`	`stoned: you ought to let that comment go, mate.`
`05:23.56`	`mwilson`	`Xenguy: Observe.`
`05:24.04`	`TheStar`	`rich_: And some are completely unable to move.`
`05:24.09`	`stoned`	`Guerin, yeh, you're right, i apologize`
`05:24.10`	`Nigel`	`Could someone please advise me where i could find: "djbdns"`
`05:24.21`	`mwilson`	`Nigel: If you're smart, nowhere.`
`05:24.22`	`Guerin`	`Nigel: cr.yp.to`
`05:24.27`	`Xenguy`	`mwilson: "observer" <-- good advice :-)`
`05:24.30`	`Guerin`	`Nigel: good luck, you'll need it`
`05:24.33`	`rich_`	`TheStar excactly`
`05:24.36`	`mwilson`	`Nigel: If you can't find it on your own, you in no way should be running it.`
`05:24.37`	`Nigel`	`only half of it seems to be in apt`
`05:24.57`	`stoned`	`mwilson, always easier to point`
`05:24.58`	`stoned`	`:)`
`05:24.58`	`TheStar`	`rich_: However, I am strongly opposed to Euthanasia.`
`05:25.02`	`mwilson`	`Nigel: Actually, none of it seems to be "in apt", as it isn't DFSG-free.`
`05:25.02`	`rich_`	`so before you decide someone is an asshole you should realise, maybe their life is not so bright and rosey as yours is`
`05:25.07`	`Nigel`	`mwilson: i've being asked to install it on a friends debian system (i've never heard/used it)`
`05:25.20`	`mwilson`	`Nigel: Good, then be a friend and don't.`
`05:25.26`	`*** join/#debian muhoo (~muhoo@adsl-69-107-50-157.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`05:25.48`	`Xenguy`	`rich_: compassion - that's real life`
`05:26.03`	`stoned`	`rich_, if you knew my brother....`
`05:26.05`	`stoned`	`lol`
`05:26.07`	`Nigel`	`libdjbdns1 is in main`
`05:26.08`	`stoned`	`only if you knew`
`05:26.10`	`initech`	`Nigel: ? what on earth is that? "could someone pls install a nameserver for me, ok thnx"`
`05:26.24`	`*** join/#debian fezzae (~fez@c-67-174-207-32.client.comcast.net)`
`05:26.31`	`*** part/#debian fezzae (~fez@c-67-174-207-32.client.comcast.net)`
`05:26.35`	`stoned`	`i sympahize, of course, and empathise as well, but really, there is a limit to what one will do for someone else`
`05:26.44`	`stoned`	`or can do rather`
`05:26.51`	`AceSmythe`	`what's djbdns?`
`05:26.56`	`Xenguy`	`stoned: sure there is`
`05:26.59`	`muhoo`	`CERN linux is debian, yes?`
`05:27.03`	`rich_`	`stoned I have sisters who probably think the same of me. Thats ok, they can think what they want as long as I never have to see them again`
`05:27.32`	`Guerin`	`AceSmythe: a dns server written by djb, the author of qmail`
`05:27.53`	`muhoo`	`weird. it uses apt-get, but it is built on RPM's? wtf?`
`05:27.54`	`Guerin`	`Nigel: go and hurt your friend, and then install bind9`
`05:28.01`	`Xenguy`	`AceSmythe: it is considered 'non-free' (as a matter of interest)`
`05:28.12`	`muhoo`	`that's just wrong`
`05:28.20`	`Nigel`	`hmmmm ok well it's in contrib`
`05:28.21`	`mwilson`	`muhoo: What, other than nothing at all, does the one have to do with the other?`
`05:28.28`	`stoned`	`rich_, I go to school fulltime, I work part time, used to be fulltime, my brother gets no disablity checks, niether does he work, I feed/cloth/roof him, plus tons more, I don't want praise for it, but an _occasional_ thank you, or perhaps not being an asshole to me while I'm doing all this`
`05:28.31`	`*** join/#debian rainfever (~nothin@ip68-2-134-137.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`05:28.40`	`rainfever`	`hello everyone`
`05:28.42`	`AceSmythe`	`there's no reason an for internet chat primarily focased on debian linux to turn into a philisofical discussion about how some people's life sucks and therefor gives them a free ticket to be an asshat`
`05:28.47`	`Narg`	`are there any programs to run windows media crap?`
`05:28.54`	`*** part/#debian Nigel (~nigel@osama-bin-laden.user)`
`05:29.01`	`AceSmythe`	`Narg: mplayer`
`05:29.02`	`Guerin`	`Narg: mplayer does a sterling job`
`05:29.05`	`AceSmythe`	`mplayerhq.org`
`05:29.06`	`peterS`	`Narg: there is mplayer, which is not in debian. see /msg dpkg mplayer`
`05:29.07`	`Narg`	`thankya`
`05:29.12`	`Narg`	`...`
`05:29.16`	`Narg`	`dangit`
`05:29.18`	`rainfever`	`nice`
`05:29.23`	`Narg`	`compiling from sources is annoying`
`05:29.24`	`rainfever`	`3 people chime in ;)`
`05:29.24`	`mwilson`	`I swear, no one knows how to Google.`
`05:29.27`	`AceSmythe`	`narg: you can compile it just fine`
`05:29.31`	`muhoo`	`mwilson: heh. glad to see you're stil here`
`05:29.31`	`AceSmythe`	`i did many a time`
`05:29.31`	`rainfever`	`lol`
`05:29.34`	`stoned`	`i lvoe my brother, and will do shit for him regardless, but still, disabled ppl who are assholes, i could do without them, i do understand where they are coming from, but really, just cuz your life sucks doesn't give u the right ot DEMAN and bitch and moan`
`05:29.40`	`Narg`	`still annoying`
`05:29.42`	`*** join/#debian blindvt (~bf@M1105P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`05:29.43`	`AceSmythe`	`not really`
`05:29.47`	`Narg`	`source can equal dependance hell`
`05:29.48`	`Xenguy`	`stoned: sounds like you don't need approval from anyone else (good :-); hope your bro appreciates your efforts`
`05:29.55`	`jazzmans`	`anyone able to tell me what program this is, and why it's using 100% cpu untill I kill it? (as shown by top) 11596 root 5 -10 272m 14m 260m S 1.3 1.9 5:24.03 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolis`
`05:29.57`	`AceSmythe`	`configure; make; make install;`
`05:30.07`	`Narg`	`yea`
`05:30.08`	`Guerin`	`jazzmans: that's your X server`
`05:30.09`	`Narg`	`thats easy`
`05:30.16`	`Narg`	`but the dependance hell is the annoying part`
`05:30.21`	`AceSmythe`	`me`
`05:30.22`	`AceSmythe`	`er`
`05:30.23`	`AceSmythe`	`meh`
`05:30.23`	`*** part/#debian philips (~brandon@philips.staff.osuosl)`
`05:30.27`	`jazzmans`	`but why 100% cpu, and why doesn't X stop-restart when I kill this process?`
`05:30.33`	`AceSmythe`	`"you dotn have this!" "ok, apt-get install blah"`
`05:30.39`	`AceSmythe`	`"oh, ok compile"`
`05:30.45`	`muhoo`	`mwilson: did they wrap apt-get around RPM packages? that seems odd and unlikely`
`05:30.48`	`stoned`	`AceSmythe, wtf are you goin on about`
`05:30.49`	`stoned`	`lol`
`05:30.50`	`mwilson`	`jazzmans: Is there some reason why it should?`
`05:30.59`	`muhoo`	`but it uses both, dammit`
`05:31.09`	`AceSmythe`	`stoned: a conversation i've had with my computer many a time`
`05:31.11`	`mwilson`	`muhoo: You don't wrap apt-get around RPM any more than you do around DEB.`
`05:31.14`	`AceSmythe`	`:`
`05:31.15`	`rich_`	`stoned people here help other people. I think a little moaning and bitching is fair compensation. And if you don't, you can ignore both`
`05:31.21`	`stoned`	`lol`
`05:31.30`	`Xenguy`	`jazzmans: if you are paranoid, get and run 'rkhunter' and 'chkrootkit'`
`05:31.38`	`maebmij`	`muhoo: I've seen apt on rpm systems before, .deb and .rpm are similar enough that you don't need to change much.`
`05:31.40`	`mwilson`	`muhoo: apt is a tool that resolves dependencies. That's all it is.`
`05:31.47`	`muhoo`	`ah`
`05:31.50`	`*** join/#debian windwolf (~windwolf@218.108.124.118)`
`05:31.51`	`Xenguy`	`jazzmans: (and we all get paranoid from time to time :-)`
`05:31.51`	`stoned`	`rich_, been 2 years, i've learned to ignore it, but that doens't mean i have to agree with it or like it`
`05:31.53`	`jazzmans`	`you think I've been rooted Xenguy? (I have no clue)`
`05:31.53`	`rich_`	`some are nice some arent. So you can ignore the mean ones and still get help`
`05:32.00`	`mwilson`	`muhoo: The packaging technology is entirely irrelevant.`
`05:32.01`	`stoned`	`people say I shouldnt have to put up with that`
`05:32.05`	`AceSmythe`	`rich_: i think you mean to be talking to me`
`05:32.12`	`stoned`	`Guerin, for one has had an episode with my brother`
`05:32.14`	`Xenguy`	`jazzmans: I have no idea - I'm just offering proactive advice ;-)`
`05:32.14`	`AceSmythe`	`oh, or not`
`05:32.16`	`AceSmythe`	`nevermind`
`05:32.19`	`stoned`	`and even he suggests i shouldnt take his shit`
`05:32.23`	`Guerin`	`some people are competent, some aren't. if you ignore all the "mean" people, you also cut out a lot of the competent people.`
`05:32.25`	`stoned`	`but i guess i have to`
`05:32.27`	`stoned`	`family u kow`
`05:32.29`	`jazzmans`	`thanks xenguy.`
`05:32.29`	`stoned`	`know*`
`05:32.32`	`AceSmythe`	`who's shit?`
`05:32.37`	`AceSmythe`	`oih`
`05:32.37`	`AceSmythe`	`ok`
`05:32.38`	`Xenguy`	`jazzmans: you should run them regularly anyway :-)`
`05:32.41`	`Guerin`	`stoned: actually, he had an episode with me.`
`05:32.44`	`Xenguy`	`jazzmans: yw`
`05:32.48`	`stoned`	`Guerin, same diff..`
`05:32.57`	`muhoo`	`mwilson: interesting. i thought apt was debian-specific, and/or deb-specific.`
`05:32.58`	`rich_`	`AceSmythe I dont know, I 've given this lecture many times and I'll give it again next time the subject comes up, so it's kindof for everyone`
`05:33.04`	`muhoo`	`good thing it isn't tho`
`05:33.09`	`mwilson`	`muhoo: Why would you think that?`
`05:33.30`	`*** join/#debian akusarujin (~jeff@653477hfc54.tampabay.rr.com)`
`05:33.36`	`AceSmythe`	`rich: i'd said somthing about not turning the chat into a philsofical discussion, thought you were commenting on that, i was inacurate`
`05:33.40`	`nevyn`	`muhoo: connectiva ported it to work with rpm ages ago.`
`05:33.44`	`muhoo`	`mwilson: probably because that's the only way i've ever used it ;-)`
`05:33.49`	`stoned`	`back to octal permissions`
`05:34.03`	`stoned`	`how about 777 on the falconseye binary`
`05:34.05`	`toresbe`	`stoned: 755! :P`
`05:34.21`	`toresbe`	`stoned: That's my fave perm`
`05:34.34`	`rich_`	`stoned I still dont know why people use octol modes. Isn't it easier to understand something like a+rwx ?`
`05:34.37`	`muhoo`	`cool well i learned something new`
`05:34.41`	`muhoo`	`mwilson: thanks!`
`05:34.44`	`*** join/#debian sTone_heAd (~rudy@200.4.245.241)`
`05:35.00`	`AceSmythe`	`octol?`
`05:35.09`	`Xenguy`	`rich_: weirdly, now that I have a mnemonic, I find octals much easier and faster`
`05:35.13`	`AceSmythe`	`oh oh`
`05:35.15`	`AceSmythe`	`chmod`
`05:35.33`	`*** part/#debian muhoo (~muhoo@adsl-69-107-50-157.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`05:35.39`	`stew`	`Xenguy: what mneumonic?`
`05:35.40`	`rich_`	`Yea after all these years I still dont know what those octal modes mean.`
`05:35.56`	`Xenguy`	`stew: sorry, I can't remember at the moment`
`05:35.58`	`Xenguy`	`=)`
`05:36.00`	`Guerin`	`octal is more valuable to know - once you understand octal perms you can easily infer the other kind... if you only know rwx etc, you can't infer octal for them`
`05:36.01`	`stew`	`hah`
`05:36.03`	`Guerin`	`from them`
`05:36.41`	`stew`	`i've been using linux for 10 years and for the life of me can't keep o,g,and a straight :)`
`05:36.55`	`stoned`	`rich_, drwxr-xr-x falconseye , I can't run it, permissions problem. Guering said its said to +x for all so thas not the case, well what could be the case, how do I go about finding these things out, I read the manpage on chmod but it didn't really make too much sense to me because I am not an expert on reading technical documentation niether is my linux/unix jargon any good. mwilson apparantly can so basic arithmatic and he can read, well T`
`05:36.55`	`stoned`	`HAT doesn't seem to be enough here... :(`
`05:36.59`	`*** join/#debian fenriz_ (~rich@CPE-65-26-210-154.wi.rr.com)`
`05:37.00`	`Xenguy`	`stew: seriously tho, if you think about the octals for a bit, you can get a handle on them and everything is quite fast afterwards (if I remember my magic formula, I'll pipe up ;-)`
`05:37.14`	`nevyn`	`stew: ugoa`
`05:37.41`	`stoned`	`and I could really use some help and not critisicm or sarcasm`
`05:37.42`	`stew`	`Xenguy: yeah i have no problem with the octals, was just curious about your mnuemonic`
`05:38.09`	`Xenguy`	`stew: I'll ponder this (it's like, I know them, but how do I explain ;-)`
`05:38.11`	`nevyn`	`Guerin: octal get's screwy with wierd stuff.. like suid and sgid`
`05:38.44`	`rich_`	`Yes but Why learn octals? I mean I remember when the ls command outut the octal modes so it was handy to know what they meant, but now ls tells you the sybolic r,w, or x, I just don't see the point.`
`05:39.00`	`kevix`	`stoned, are you trying to run it from an xterm or icon?`
`05:39.01`	`ctgPi`	`I am downloading an ISO image of a custom Debian distribution, but can't burn it to a CD. Will dd'ing the image to a spare partition and installing LILO allow me to run the distribution's installer?`
`05:39.14`	`stoned`	`kevix, i made a launcher icon`
`05:39.27`	`nevyn`	`rich cause typing chmod 755 file is faster than typing chmod u=rwx,og=rx file`
`05:39.40`	`peterS`	`ctgPi: lilo can't boot an ISO image. you'll need to boot something`
`05:39.53`	`kevix`	`stoned, I can only run it from an icon if I specify to run from an xterm.`
`05:40.24`	`rich_`	`nevyn I see, its just for the typeing? Well for me the certainty of being able to see easily what a+x means outweighs the extra keystrokes of typeing it`
`05:40.25`	`stoned`	`ahh`
`05:40.25`	`*** join/#debian fenriz_ (~rich@CPE-65-26-210-154.wi.rr.com)`
`05:40.32`	`ctgPi`	`stoned: Can you run nethack normally? Maybe it's the data files that are with screwy permissions.`
`05:40.37`	`maebmij`	`peterS, ctgPi: could you maybe mount the iso on loopback and copy its contents to an ext2 partition and then run lilo?`
`05:40.38`	`peterS`	`ctgPi: you can 'mount -o loop filename.iso /mnt' and then copy /mnt/dists/stable/main/disks-i386/current/bf2.4/* to floppy disks`
`05:41.07`	`peterS`	`ctgPi: I mean in the "cp rescue.bin /dev/fd0" way, not the "cp rescue.bin /floppy/" way`
`05:41.34`	`*** join/#debian Markaci (~Markaci@CPE00508de53d8f-CM0011aea10c8a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`05:42.06`	`kevix`	`peterS, I thought you did 'dd in=rescue.bin of=/dev/fd0'?`
`05:42.13`	`peterS`	`kevix: no, "cp" is easier to type`
`05:42.24`	`peterS`	`ctgPi: also, I got the path wrong, look in ..../images-1.44/bf2.4/`
`05:42.50`	`peterS`	`kevix: people somehow got this impression that when you're talking raw partitions or raw media, you have to use 'dd'. totally false.`
`05:42.59`	`ctgPi`	`peterS: Will the floppy disks boot from a partition in the hard disk (even if a ISO-9660 partition)?`
`05:43.34`	`peterS`	`ctgPi: the floppies will boot. then it's just a matter of mounting the iso filesystem after you've started up, and specifying "hard disk media" when asked for your install location`
`05:44.35`	`kevix`	`peterS, you need iso9660 support in the kernel? to do this??`
`05:44.41`	`peterS`	`ctgPi: in other words, hitting Alt-F2 and issuing "mount -r -t iso9660 /dev/hda3 /mnt" or similar`
`05:44.45`	`stoned`	`ctgPi, it didnt say i needed nethack or nethack-common, I just grabbed the falconseye-data package from unstable, I run testing`
`05:44.53`	`*** join/#debian zaq (~jw@pool-68-239-159-60.nwrk.east.verizon.net)`
`05:44.55`	`peterS`	`kevix: the installation kernel has iso9660 support built in, for hopefully obvious reasons (:`
`05:45.04`	`stoned`	`argh lag`
`05:45.26`	`Xenguy`	`stew: I think the bottom line with octals can be found on the 'man chmod' page - you need to remember this -> read (4), write (2), and execute (1) <- that's rote learning tho, rather than a mneumonic (maybe). If you can remember that, everything else 'adds up' :-)`
`05:45.29`	`kevix`	`stoned, you did 'apt-get install falconseye'?`
`05:45.33`	`maebmij`	`kevix: but yes, you need iso9660 support to mount the image to ge the floppy images out :)`
`05:45.34`	`peterS`	`kind of hard to install the kernel and modules off a CD if you don't have iso9660 support already available (:`
`05:46.17`	`stoned`	`kevix, nah, i dpkg - the unstable package, somehow my search on the webpage for package.debian.org only resulted in falconseye-data and it didn't show me the other main package`
`05:46.24`	`stoned`	`im gonna go find an install it`
`05:46.26`	`ctgPi`	`peterS: Thanks :)`
`05:46.29`	`stoned`	`i see the problem now`
`05:46.56`	`Xenguy`	`o/~ I climbed all the way inside, your tragedy... o/~`
`05:47.25`	`rdancer`	`well if you're really hardcore, you could extract the image from the cd fs by hand, using dd(1) and file(1) 8-)`
`05:47.29`	`*** join/#debian nenn (~echo@66.250.54.33)`
`05:47.40`	`nenn`	`hey how can i install a new kernel if i dont have the header files of my old one?`
`05:47.50`	`nenn`	`and even if i apt-get install the headers it doesnt work`
`05:48.02`	`rdancer`	`!tell nenn about real kernel`
`05:48.08`	`stoned`	`ahh i see, no wonder it didn't display it, firefox had crashed the that part of the screen had a message box and then it disappared and made it white`
`05:48.09`	`stoned`	`doh`
`05:48.22`	`kevix`	`nenn, are you using a debian kernel-package?`
`05:48.32`	`mwilson`	`nenn: What does the one have to do with the other?`
`05:48.46`	`*** join/#debian cwood (cwood@iniquitous.heresiarch.ca)`
`05:48.47`	`vipersniper`	`nenn, you need libncurss5-dev`
`05:48.48`	`*** join/#debian tvn (~tvn@pcp0010126520pcs.alxndr01.va.comcast.net)`
`05:49.01`	`*** join/#debian tvn (~tvn@pcp0010126520pcs.alxndr01.va.comcast.net)`
`05:49.20`	`*** join/#debian cwood (cwood@iniquitous.heresiarch.ca)`
`05:49.33`	`nenn`	`mwilson: make wont work ;p`
`05:49.39`	`rdancer`	`dpkg, real kernel =~ s/ots & remote DoSes)//`
`05:49.39`	`dpkg`	`that doesn't contain 'ots & remote DoSes)', rdancer`
`05:49.54`	`*** join/#debian pder (~pder@dhcp024-208-247-135.twmi.rr.com)`
`05:49.56`	`nenn`	`vipersniper: THANKS!`
`05:50.10`	`cwood`	`Good evening. Does anybody have any recommendations for 1) address book software you like 2) calendaring software you like?`
`05:50.32`	`kevix`	`cwood, evolution ?`
`05:50.50`	`cwood`	`I've been looking over the list, just wondered if anybody had any thoughts.`
`05:50.57`	`mwilson`	`nenn: So? Again, what does the one have to do with the other?`
`05:51.05`	`rich_`	`cwood I hate to say it, but try evolution. Heres a tip though, it starts daemons so when your done running it, if you don't want those daemons running all the time, you have to kill them`
`05:51.09`	`holycow`	`evolution is the only one that i know that is mature enough cwood`
`05:51.11`	`mwilson`	`cwood: I like CursesCal, but that's just me.`
`05:51.24`	`nenn`	`mwilson: if i did a make i wouldnt get anything other than it missing header files, didnt make any sense really.`
`05:51.29`	`vipersniper`	`nenn, apt-get kernel-source + apt-get make + apt-get gcc + apt-get kernel-source and apt-get libcursess5-dev, that should do it ;)`
`05:51.41`	`cwood`	`Was pondering evolution, but it would be nice if I could access this thing over an ssh connection -- ie on a cmd line.`
`05:51.55`	`mwilson`	`evocrap is, well, crap.`
`05:51.56`	`nenn`	`vipersniper: thanks its working now all i needed was that lib file, i dont know why it didnt bug me about it last time i did this`
`05:51.57`	`maebmij`	`cwood: I'm quite happy with jpilot - it's a sorta clone of Palm Desktop, and pretty good at addresses and calendars.`
`05:52.00`	`rdancer`	`hm, the real kernel factoid borders on the length that some part of the toolchain (irssi-ircd-blootbot) crops, when prepended by "told someone" or such a longer intro`
`05:52.05`	`nenn`	`away i go thanks all`
`05:52.08`	`stoned`	`i ran the falconseye and it popped up but then disappeared real quickly, and it isn't listed under ps x either, does it make a log in /var/log/soemwhere, what could be causing this reaction?`
`05:52.45`	`cwood`	`stoned: Try running it from a terminal... see if it produces any cranky output?`
`05:52.49`	`mwilson`	`cursescal isn't an address book, just a calendar, and it integrates with mutt, like abook does, so it's all I need.`
`05:53.07`	`stoned`	`ok`
`05:53.10`	`nevyn`	`hrm..`
`05:53.14`	`nevyn`	`I should look at that.`
`05:53.17`	`cwood`	`stoned: Or try doing 'tail ~/.xsession-errors'`
`05:53.19`	`stoned`	`cwood, i can run it from console, it runs fine`
`05:53.29`	`stoned`	`just not through the menu`
`05:53.33`	`*** join/#debian CoyoteUgly (~alex@host217-43-46-167.range217-43.btcentralplus.com)`
`05:53.47`	`rich_`	`I don't currently use a calender, or an address book. I don't have the organisational skills required. But evolution works good for mail`
`05:54.12`	`cwood`	`I'm just tired of keeping everything in a flat file. Grep only takes me so far.`
`05:54.29`	`cwood`	`stoned: Try looking at your .xsession-errors, then.`
`05:55.00`	`*** join/#debian jdhutchin1 (~jdhutchin@user-0c93ksq.cable.mindspring.com)`
`05:55.18`	`stoned`	`when I ran it from console, it worked, i clicked cancel, and i froze up, i can't do ctrl + c in console to end it either`
`05:55.27`	`*** join/#debian bonez39 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com)`
`05:55.42`	`veruus`	`what's the url to the latest installer?`
`05:55.44`	`*** join/#debian lsmith (~lsmith@ip68-12-103-27.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`05:55.51`	`cwood`	`!d-i`
`05:55.51`	`dpkg`	`somebody said d-i was the new installer for sarge (debian 3.1), at http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ or see #debian-boot, but don't pester the d-i devs with unrelated questions`
`05:56.07`	`veruus`	`danke`
`05:56.11`	`rich_`	`stoned switch to another console and kill it, either by useing killall <name> or by useing ps to get the pis`
`05:56.15`	`rich_`	`I mean pid`
`05:56.15`	`mwilson`	`nevyn: http://www.jamiehillman.co.uk/ccal/`
`05:56.22`	`cwood`	`stoned: Many X apps drop output into ~/.xsession-errors - there might be useful information there.`
`05:56.30`	`*** join/#debian fm (~fm@217.17.237.105)`
`05:56.54`	`stoned`	`i had to use kill -9 it won't kill with killall or kill`
`05:57.30`	`rich_`	`stoned Oh, well thats not a good thing, but I dont see that you had any other choice`
`05:58.07`	`Xenguy`	`stoned: I've seen that before`
`05:58.10`	`mwilson`	`oooh, there's even a debian package for it now.`
`05:58.29`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: judging after what google knows about cursescal, i'd say it's a make-up`
`05:58.38`	`cwood`	`oooh. So there is.`
`05:58.49`	`*** join/#debian cob (~cob@AClermont-Ferrand-101-1-3-104.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`05:58.54`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: does it have a package or source or homepage or something?`
`05:59.02`	`rich_`	`stoned If your wondering, that means that it tells it to exit whether its ready to or not. It can trap a signal 15 and disregard it, but with a signal 9 it has to exit, ready or not`
`05:59.02`	`stoned`	`yeh, i did happen to real the manpage for kill and it made sense to me, I can read and do basic arithmatic too ya know :)`
`05:59.07`	`*** join/#debian cob_ (~cob@AClermont-Ferrand-101-1-3-104.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`05:59.19`	`stoned`	`read*`
`05:59.21`	`cwood`	`Holy gobs of Evolution dependencies.`
`05:59.30`	`rich_`	`cool`
`05:59.42`	`*** join/#debian wbniv (~wbniv@fl-69-34-143-166.dyn.sprint-hsd.net)`
`05:59.45`	`dondelelcaro`	`cwood: Evolution is like gnome. What were you expecting?`
`05:59.54`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: Not like that isn't hard to fix, or has crapfox stopped paying attention to X resources?`
`06:00.09`	`cwood`	`This is why I run xfce. For now, anyway.`
`06:00.26`	`mwilson`	`rdancer: Amazing how I already gave the homepage for it, isn't it?`
`06:00.29`	`stoned`	`nice proram this tail, nano couldnt output the whole xsession errors`
`06:00.35`	`*** join/#debian N-MAN (~bogart@201.135.66.240)`
`06:00.48`	`Xenguy`	`cwood: a lot of folks seem to like xfce for being lean (haven't messed with it much myself yet)`
`06:01.10`	`stoned`	`is it possible to see for example the last 50 lines of a file or am i stuck with just 10 using tail`
`06:01.24`	`*** join/#debian struct (~struct@66.42.70.67)`
`06:01.26`	`stoned`	`oh`
`06:01.26`	`dondelelcaro`	`mwilson: yeah, it's something slightly more complex... I'm not sure exactly what the deal is, but no doubt it has something to do with mozilla's internal pastebuffer not being synched when a very short selection happens in an xterm`
`06:01.27`	`stoned`	`nm`
`06:01.32`	`stoned`	`ther is frikkin man page`
`06:01.33`	`struct`	`is it possible to de-sid a system and revert to stable?`
`06:01.34`	`rdancer`	`dondelelcaro: with an xclip in a loop, you can copy whatever ff puts in XA_CLIPBOARD to XA_PRIMARY, fwiw.`
`06:01.38`	`stoned`	`i love answering my own questions`
`06:01.38`	`Guerin`	`cwood: heh, I'm just purging ~35 xfce packages`
`06:01.41`	`stoned`	`lol`
`06:01.47`	`mwilson`	`Gnome has gotten this idea from somewhere that it's something more than an application.`
`06:01.58`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: "internal pastebuffer"?`
`06:02.00`	`dondelelcaro`	`rdancer: yeah, slightly different. It's actually in PRIMARY, but firefox doesn't see that PRIMARY has been set`
`06:02.00`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: ahh, yes. i've been busy googling 8-)`
`06:02.06`	`cwood`	`I like xfce for not requiring x*10^x+1 dependency files. Although it's funny how I can't stand cde, and I use xfce.`
`06:02.13`	`rdancer`	`dondelelcaro: ff uses CLIPBOARD`
`06:02.14`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: It doesn't use the clipboard?`
`06:02.24`	`dondelelcaro`	`rdancer: not for the middle mouse button, it doesn't.`
`06:02.28`	`struct`	`is it possible to de-sid a system and revert to stable? i want to remove all of the sid packages and replace them with older, more stable versions.`
`06:02.35`	`rdancer`	`dondelelcaro: it never uses PRIMARY itself; except the middle button, yes`
`06:02.37`	`*** join/#debian replaceafill (elbixio@216.184.124.137)`
`06:02.48`	`Guerin`	`struct: anything's possible; that's is less possible than most things`
`06:02.57`	`Xenguy`	`o/~ I'm going to NY City, never really been there, just like the way it sounds ... o/~`
`06:02.59`	`struct`	`i see.`
`06:03.11`	`ctgPi`	`struct: It might be easier to backup your configuration and personal files and installing woody over it`
`06:03.11`	`rdancer`	`dondelelcaro: you sure the application you are selecting from hasn't died?`
`06:03.14`	`mwilson`	`Mozcrap always uses only PRIMARY for middle-mouse-paste, unless you change it.`
`06:03.18`	`cwood`	`You'd possibly have more luck building a dupe system, then just switching network cables at the right moment.`
`06:03.23`	`rich_`	`Yea anything gnome or kde seems to start daemons that I have to kill after useing it. They seem to think that if your going to run their little application once, you want like 4 daemons running all the time. So I wrote a little shell script to kill the daemons after running evolution`
`06:03.23`	`stoned`	`struct, yes I would like to know that also, in case i upgrade to sid and not like it, i'd like to be able to get back to sarge without too much crap`
`06:03.24`	`Guerin`	`struct: my advice: don't bother. if you must have stable, nuke and reinstall.`
`06:03.29`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: you can change it?`
`06:03.31`	`dondelelcaro`	`rdancer: I know what's in the PRIMARY pastebuffer...`
`06:03.33`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: xterm will de-assert PRIMARY at almost any opportunity.`
`06:03.38`	`Guerin`	`!sid upgrade`
`06:03.38`	`dpkg`	`Repeat after me: Sid is NOT AN UPGRADE! Sid is meant for developers and testers, so stay away from it if you're neither. Use stable or testing instead.`
`06:03.41`	`*** join/#debian Frank-Drebin (~Frank-Dre@adsl-211-2-145.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`06:03.47`	`stoned`	`ahh`
`06:03.51`	`stoned`	`i see`
`06:03.56`	`mwilson`	`Nothing is IN PRIMARY, PRIMARY comes from the application holding ownership of it.`
`06:04.21`	`mwilson`	`Same as SECONDARY.`
`06:04.36`	`mwilson`	`Only CLIPBOARD is stored in the X server.`
`06:04.37`	`struct`	`is it easy to go from ext2 to ext3 in stable?`
`06:04.40`	`cwood`	`I'm neither a dev nor qa, yet I run Sid. It's a great way to learn how a GNU system can go wrong, and the myriad ways one can fix it. That said, not much goes wrong around here.`
`06:04.50`	`struct`	`or does the current stable install allow ext3?>`
`06:04.51`	`Guerin`	`struct: /msg dpkg ext2->ext3`
`06:05.09`	`Xenguy`	`cwood: high five :-)`
`06:05.10`	`Guerin`	`struct: filesystems are in kernel; with the right kernel, stable will do ext3`
`06:05.20`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: how do i paste SECONDARY or CLIPBOARD to a generic X app?`
`06:05.31`	`struct`	`Guerin: ah ok.`
`06:05.32`	`dondelelcaro`	`mwilson: select something. deassert it. xcb -S 1; xcb -p 1;`
`06:05.40`	`mwilson`	`Xterm #197 is supposed to have fixes for its desire to remove PRIMARY ownership all the time.`
`06:05.42`	`holycow`	`cwood, except when it does, its quite spectacular`
`06:05.43`	`dondelelcaro`	`mwilson: viola. PRIMARY.`
`06:05.44`	`rich_`	`I switched to debian after I was done learning. I had already come to the point where the leetness of running every kind of server I ever heard about was not worth the drain on my recources`
`06:05.50`	`cwood`	`holycow: Yes! And it's quite educational.`
`06:05.56`	`holycow`	`and as with all things in the universe, it will go at the moment you need your system the most`
`06:05.58`	`holycow`	`ehe :)`
`06:06.10`	`cwood`	`Pressure cooks skill.`
`06:06.16`	`Xenguy`	`holycow: true, but still, the emporor wears no clothes ;-)`
`06:06.37`	`stoned`	`cwood, this is the last line in my .xsession-errors, tail ~/.xsession-errors -n 50 > ~/crap, "...Too much output, ignoring rest...`
`06:06.37`	`stoned`	`"`
`06:06.39`	`holycow`	`hehe :)`
`06:06.56`	`stoned`	`before that even i on't see any errors`
`06:07.17`	`stoned`	`at leat anything noticeably bad`
`06:07.17`	`*** join/#debian orospakr (~orospakr@CPE00a00cc1c1a6-CM00407b87b341.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`06:07.26`	`rdancer`	`cwood: sid breaks regularilly, ~2 a month, seriously for regular users to notice.`
`06:07.46`	`cwood`	`Hm. Well, since it works in one way, and not in another, what's the difference? Environment? Invocation? Time to start troubleshooting. Also, is there something like a .falconseye that you can move out of the way, see if there's issues there?`
`06:07.52`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: A cut buffer is NOT PRIMARY.`
`06:07.53`	`Xenguy`	`orospakr: welcome to Ottawa's premier source of Linux information -- #oclug !!!`
`06:07.55`	`Xenguy`	`ww`
`06:07.58`	`cwood`	`I must not be using the breaky bits.`
`06:08.21`	`*** part/#debian SDFH_Linux (~SDFH@adsl-065-006-180-151.sip.bct.bellsouth.net)`
`06:08.22`	`dondelelcaro`	`mwilson: obviously. That's just saving the contents of PRIMARY into CUT_BUFFER[1] so you can view it using xcb`
`06:08.27`	`rdancer`	`xcb: nothing appropriate.`
`06:08.38`	`*** join/#debian diepes (~pes@165.165.218.203)`
`06:09.03`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 720] by debhelper`
`06:09.17`	`rdancer`	`wtf is xcb?`
`06:09.24`	`stew`	`!info xcb`
`06:09.32`	`dpkg`	`xcb: (Pigeon holes for your cut and paste selections), section x11, is optional. Version: 2.4-4 (sid), Packaged size: 21 kB, Installed size: 124 kB`
`06:10.36`	`*** join/#debian nikal (~nikal@dsl-hllst-66-18-197-181-cgy.nucleus.com)`
`06:10.41`	`stoned`	`just a quick lil bit, ls --color=always in a terminal/root but next time i type ls its still black n white`
`06:11.02`	`mwilson`	`Great, I'm ssh'd in, so I can't test that.`
`06:11.15`	`stew`	`stoned: alias ls='ls --color=auto' in your .bashrc`
`06:11.16`	`stoned`	`how can i make it so that ls always returns color regardless of user`
`06:11.22`	`stoned`	`stew, ok`
`06:11.37`	`rdancer`	`stew: thx`
`06:11.41`	`Guerin`	`!system wide`
`06:11.41`	`dpkg`	`People who want to make things 'system wide' (aliases, environment variable changes, etc.) are control freaks. Leave your poor users alone.`
`06:11.44`	`cwood`	`Don't force users to use colour if they don't want to. They will hate you for it. :)`
`06:11.44`	`Guerin`	`stoned: ^^^`
`06:11.52`	`stew`	`stoned: you want auto instead of always so it doen't through control chars in when you are using it in a pipe or something`
`06:11.56`	`cwood`	`And then you will be hurt. :)`
`06:12.08`	`stoned`	`Guerin, is just me who uses this system, there is only one account besides root`
`06:12.23`	`rich_`	`Most people now days don't have users And many of the ones who do, shouldn't.`
`06:12.36`	`*** join/#debian CipherSwarm (~CipherSwa@hc652477d.dhcp.vt.edu)`
`06:12.43`	`rdancer`	`ls --color=auto is not a bad idea nowadays. for new installs, that is.`
`06:12.47`	`holycow`	`rich, heh`
`06:12.57`	`stoned`	`i believe color coding should be enabled by default`
`06:13.00`	`cwood`	`stoned: If you learn how to set up your own user account nicely, then your settings are easily portable to a machine on which you don't have root.`
`06:13.04`	`mwilson`	`rdancer: No.`
`06:13.10`	`nvz`	`having only one account besides root is difficult.`
`06:13.15`	`cwood`	`stoned: First thing I do when moving into a new machine is disabling the colours.`
`06:13.30`	`stoned`	`I understand though, its generally good practice, per user settings that is`
`06:13.32`	`holycow`	`nvz, if your l33t`
`06:13.35`	`stoned`	`I am not arguing against that`
`06:13.53`	`nvz`	`holycow: debian comes with 24 I think to start with even if you dont create a user`
`06:13.54`	`rich_`	`stoned I do too, but I also find putting the configs to change it in the users directory rather than in /etc helps me get a new system running and configured quicker`
`06:13.56`	`cwood`	`Why are colours good practice?`
`06:14.07`	`rich_`	`even though I have no users`
`06:14.10`	`holycow`	`nvz, oh i see what you mean ... ehe nod right`
`06:14.10`	`*** join/#debian Duelist (skquinn@dsl093-026-112.hou1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`06:14.25`	`rdancer`	`well, new users rather, changed in /etc/skel/.profile or something`
`06:14.34`	`mwilson`	`rdancer: No.`
`06:14.37`	`stoned`	`rich_, word, thas how i think, some settings should be sysem wide, some not, in this case, i think color coded ls should be a system wide setting rather than per user`
`06:14.39`	`rdancer`	`mwilson: why`
`06:14.48`	`Duelist`	`Has anyone else gotten the linux-wlan-ng drivers working? I get unresolved symbols when I try to modprobe`
`06:15.17`	`mwilson`	`Duelist: No, didn't you know? They're all a big scam. They don't work for anyone at all. All the press you see is a lie.`
`06:15.34`	`*** join/#debian wobbler (wayne@216.163.103.99)`
`06:15.34`	`stoned`	`unless I was admin of a system where I have a bunch of users, i'd leave it user based, not system wide`
`06:15.37`	`rdancer`	`stoned: these things are configurable by user, per user.`
`06:15.47`	`Duelist`	`mwilson: Are you being serious or sarcastic?`
`06:15.51`	`stoned`	`rdancer, yeh, I being the only user :)`
`06:15.59`	`rich_`	`stoned Yea but it's easier to backup all the config files that are in your home directory than it is to back up all those plus /etc/whatever`
`06:16.00`	`mwilson`	`Oh, brother.`
`06:16.01`	`*** join/#debian baroni (~baroni@200.225.247.198)`
`06:16.04`	`maebmij`	`mwilson: ok, how about 'has anyone else in this room got the drivers working?`
`06:16.07`	`stoned`	`rich_, that too`
`06:16.18`	`cwood`	`drivers? I don't run any drivers on my computer.`
`06:16.19`	`mwilson`	`maebmij: When did we all join AOL?`
`06:16.36`	`*** join/#debian rizzah (~whathmm@cpe-024-211-098-117.sc.rr.com)`
`06:16.40`	`maebmij`	`mwilson: channel?`
`06:16.42`	`rdancer`	`stoned: /usr/local/bin is your friend`
`06:16.49`	`stoned`	`mwilson, its a chat room or an irc channel`
`06:16.51`	`stoned`	`get over it`
`06:16.52`	`Duelist`	`I have kernel-image-2.4.27-1-k7, I installed linux-wlan-ng-2.4.27-1-k7... that's right, isn't it?`
`06:16.53`	`rizzah`	`so i installed debian on my box and now trying to get the wireless card to work`
`06:16.56`	`rdancer`	`!room`
`06:16.56`	`dpkg`	`CHANNEL!`
`06:17.00`	`stoned`	`stop bitching at people for no fucking reason`
`06:17.04`	`stoned`	`geez`
`06:17.04`	`rizzah`	`i installed ndiswrapper and also did ndiswrapper -m`
`06:17.11`	`rizzah`	`hoping the module would be detected, but it isnt ;O`
`06:17.16`	`rizzah`	`i tried to install ndiswrapper-source but all the dependencies arent on the first sarge disk`
`06:17.16`	`orospakr`	`hi Xenguy.`
`06:17.17`	`rich_`	`stoned and the /etc files might change. So you try to copy your old one over, and it might break something. If its just in the users home directory, its easier to fix. It gives you the option of going back to a safe default`
`06:17.23`	`rizzah`	`and i dont have the other sarge cds..`
`06:17.25`	`stoned`	`ahh`
`06:17.37`	`stoned`	`so I suppose I should stick to the per user setting policy`
`06:17.41`	`cwood`	`rizzah: You can configure /etc/apt/sources.list to pull down files from a Debian repository.`
`06:17.55`	`cwood`	`rizzah: See 'man sources.list'`
`06:17.59`	`rizzah`	`cwood its not connected to a wired network..`
`06:18.07`	`stoned`	`you are right, it IS easier to back up a home directory than to back up all configs from everywhere else`
`06:18.15`	`rich_`	`stoned I only recently started doing that and I find it just makes things easier. Not for any good reason, just for convenience`
`06:18.18`	`rdancer`	`stoned: just think twice before implementing something like --color=yes, as that will break programs relaying on ls(1) being a POSIX ls`
`06:18.18`	`rizzah`	`this box right now im on is on wireless also`
`06:18.23`	`cwood`	`rizzah: You could download the files from elsewhere, and make a local Debian repository, or just install them with dpkg.`
`06:18.49`	`rizzah`	`yeah theres a lot of dependencies and i dont know which all i need, so many`
`06:18.54`	`rizzah`	`the module was supposed to function`
`06:19.00`	`stoned`	`this is good i like this, discussion and explanations`
`06:19.01`	`rizzah`	`then i do ifup wlan0`
`06:19.10`	`rizzah`	`but no it didnt work`
`06:19.23`	`*** join/#debian UG^^ (~hedback@h128n2fls35o258.telia.com)`
`06:19.29`	`rizzah`	`for some reason the module isnt loading or doesnt exist`
`06:19.41`	`rizzah`	`and sarge doesnt come w/ a kernel-source, simply a kernel-image`
`06:19.43`	`cwood`	`rizzah: Can you modprobe the module manually? That helps.`
`06:19.57`	`rizzah`	`how?`
`06:20.05`	`rizzah`	`i did modprobe ndiswrapper`
`06:20.08`	`rdancer`	`rizzah: alias wlan0 foo in /etc/modules.conf`
`06:20.19`	`rizzah`	`brb`
`06:20.23`	`*** join/#debian BeetleJuice (~BeetleJui@200.141.29.242)`
`06:20.58`	`*** part/#debian BeetleJuice (~BeetleJui@200.141.29.242)`
`06:21.28`	`stoned`	`rdancer, is it still safe to so the --color=always or auto in .bashrc, also just off the top of your head, what sort of programs or utilities would case a problem. do those programs need to send something other than color for he first argument? how does that work`
`06:21.53`	`rdancer`	`stoned: always will break things`
`06:22.19`	`*** join/#debian dumitru (~dumitru@213.157.172.231)`
`06:22.28`	`cwood`	`It looks like for an address book I'm going for abook, since that's just what I need.`
`06:22.32`	`cwood`	`and ccal for a calendar.`
`06:22.34`	`*** join/#debian chapium (~chapium@hltp-e-111.resnet.purdue.edu)`
`06:22.38`	`stoned`	`for example what other programs rely on ls for directory listing, and modifying the bash rc for alias color = auto/always would break those programs?`
`06:23.03`	`stoned`	`like for sure, or is that an uncommon/common case`
`06:23.05`	`rizzah`	`problem is...ndiswrapper OR wlan0 isnt in /lib/modules`
`06:23.34`	`*** join/#debian novem (novem@c-24-126-27-128.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`06:23.54`	`chapium`	`is there a way to run the hardware detection that is done at the install of sarge?`
`06:23.59`	`novem`	`hello all, is there a front end to configure apache with a GUI?`
`06:24.02`	`rdancer`	stoned: program can do things like cat `ls -v` > version-sorted-concatenation . with ls --color=always, this will break for obvious reasons. on a POSIX system, ls has to obey certain rules
`06:24.25`	`chapium`	`perhaps somehting to detect sound devices. My sound worked fine before, and i think i'm having a driver issue. I think the installer settings would fix it`
`06:24.52`	`cwood`	`Thanks for help. I'm off to read manpages etc.`
`06:25.03`	`stoned`	`im not one to chane posix standards lol`
`06:25.27`	`rdancer`	`stoned: the question isn't how unlikely or uncommon it is, the question is whether it will eventually lead to your filesystem being erased or corrupted beyond any repair. and the answer is yes`
`06:25.37`	`stoned`	`so where can i get a list of these 'rules' ls has to follow, do i need to search online or is there some sysem based documentation on posix standards`
`06:25.56`	`stoned`	`so the color option is a bad idea then`
`06:26.29`	`*** join/#debian dreamer_ (~michael@Toronto-HSE-ppp3661762.sympatico.ca)`
`06:26.37`	`Guerin`	`ah fuck`
`06:26.46`	`rdancer`	`stoned: not if you want to live "dangerously", the austin powers way ;-)`
`06:26.52`	`Guerin`	`my 3rdparty xfce4.2 beta repository is fucked`
`06:26.53`	`novem`	`could anyone tell me the name of a good apache config GUI frontend?`
`06:26.57`	`dondelelcaro`	`stoned: dircolors is the way it's done.`
`06:27.03`	`Guerin`	`and everything's fucked up`
`06:27.05`	`stoned`	`rdancer, this is ineresting, how exactly could using the ls color option cause my fs to go fuckwire`
`06:27.18`	`dondelelcaro`	`novem: there really isn't one. Real apache configuration requires an editor.`
`06:27.19`	`Guerin`	`novem: emacs /etc/apache/httpd.conf`
`06:27.26`	`dreamer_`	`is there a way to avoid using the f!#$%#@$% winXP bootloader if one wants debian on the same hard drive?`
`06:27.35`	`*** join/#debian windwolf_ (~windwolf@218.108.124.11)`
`06:27.38`	`stoned`	`dondelelcaro, dircolors? command, file? more info please :)`
`06:27.40`	`Guerin`	`dreamer_: just install grub`
`06:27.48`	`nite613`	`Anyone know an IP that responds on every port? (odd question, I know)`
`06:27.49`	`rizzah`	`i did an lsmod`
`06:27.52`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, use grub for nt`
`06:27.52`	`rizzah`	`the module isnt present`
`06:27.56`	`dondelelcaro`	`stoned: man dircolors;`
`06:27.57`	`rdancer`	`dreamer_: grub`
`06:27.59`	`Guerin`	`nite613: 127.0.0.1`
`06:28.06`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, search for grldr running under ntldr`
`06:28.14`	`dreamer_`	`is there an easy way convert...?`
`06:28.19`	`rdancer`	`stoned: /msg dpkg break for some inspiration`
`06:28.42`	`nite613`	`Guerin: Actually, 127.0.0.1 doesn't respond on every port. I could set it up to do so, but that's not what I'm looking for`
`06:28.48`	`dreamer_`	`i currently can't into the debian install on my other computer...`
`06:29.01`	`*** join/#debian samrolken (~sam@68.212.246.173)`
`06:29.06`	`nite613`	`Guerin: Well, "respond" I gues it does...`
`06:29.16`	`rdancer`	`stoned: you can make your own command that will be a ls on steroids:`
`06:29.18`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, grldr (grub for nt) is a boot loader that runs under nt fine`
`06:29.25`	`samrolken`	`Is there a particular room in which to ask security questions?`
`06:29.26`	`rdancer`	`-rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 78 May 3 2003 /usr/local/bin/v`
`06:29.30`	`nite613`	`Guerin: I should be more specific, I want a full TCP connection established on every port. All ports open`
`06:29.30`	`*** join/#debian Ziero (~hedback@h128n2fls35o258.telia.com)`
`06:29.52`	`rdancer`	`stoned: this one is even easier to type 8-)`
`06:30.14`	`samrolken`	`I have a security-related question... I'm using Debian.`
`06:30.14`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, ah`
`06:30.18`	`stoned`	`er..`
`06:30.20`	`stoned`	`rdancer, ah`
`06:30.21`	`stoned`	`hehe`
`06:30.23`	`*** join/#debian peterrooney (~peter@S01060040052f6d20.gv.shawcable.net)`
`06:30.33`	`novem`	`alright I guess im gonna have to attack man apache and actually learn something then heh`
`06:31.09`	`rdancer`	`nite613: you can tell packet filter to respond on every port, but in a very limited way`
`06:31.11`	`*** join/#debian Dave2\|Laptop (~dave@Dave2.student.supporter.pdpc)`
`06:31.24`	`JoePenguin`	`samrolken: ask while you have my attention`
`06:31.36`	`sussudio`	`JoePenguin: look! a fish!`
`06:31.43`	`Guerin`	`nite613: unless you run a telnetd or something on every port, I don't think you'll fund such a thing`
`06:31.47`	`Guerin`	`find, even`
`06:31.47`	`samrolken`	`I suspect my machine is taken over. I don't know how, but it's doing wierd things. What should I do?`
`06:31.52`	`wobbler`	`Gurin, what 3rd party are you useing for xfce os-cillation? thats what im useing and it works fine`
`06:31.59`	`nite613`	`rdancer: Yeah, I realized I can set up my machine to do it. I'm looking for a machine elsewhere on the net that does it and was curious if anyone knows of such a beast`
`06:32.10`	`sussudio`	`samrolken: is it planning a communist takeover of your apartment building?`
`06:32.11`	`*** join/#debian CipherSwarm (~CipherSwa@hc652477d.dhcp.vt.edu)`
`06:32.13`	`rdancer`	`nite613: depending on what you want, a port redirection from all ports to one, on which the daemon will sit, might be an option?`
`06:32.15`	`Guerin`	`wobbler: yeah, os-cillation.de/debian binary`
`06:32.17`	`rdancer`	`!wayttd nite613`
`06:32.18`	`dpkg`	`What Are You Trying To Do, nite613?`
`06:32.26`	`wobbler`	`humm`
`06:32.31`	`JoePenguin`	`samrolken: Read this --> http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/intruder_detection_checklist.html`
`06:32.38`	`samrolken`	`No, it's the web server I use to host sites for my clients. I work for myself as a web designer...`
`06:32.50`	`Guerin`	`wobbler: I'm reinstalling from scratch some other things were broken due to me fucking with them; now the rep is giving me broken deps on the xfce4 metapackage from there`
`06:32.55`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, http://marc.herbert.free.fr/linux/win2linstall.html#loadlin-or-grub-for-nt <-- that should help, that is a pretty good doc, read it`
`06:33.07`	`*** join/#debian kevix (~kevix@user-2ivea1i.dialup.mindspring.com)`
`06:33.19`	`wobbler`	`Guerin, ok i see`
`06:33.30`	`nite613`	`rdancer: nothing you guys should be helping me with ;)`
`06:33.31`	`rdancer`	`nite613: there is a firewalling sollution that does something similar, for well-known often-used services. but noone will be as stupid as to run this on ports 1..65535`
`06:33.50`	`dreamer_`	`stoned... i wuz just there... didn't look so promising`
`06:33.58`	`samrolken`	`is there some kind of root-kit-detector software available?`
`06:33.58`	`*** join/#debian creddy (~CrazyEddy@203-217-34-30.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`06:34.20`	`JoePenguin`	`samrolken: there is a chkrootkit package`
`06:34.42`	`samrolken`	`oooh.`
`06:34.49`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, that is what i followed 5 weeks ago, and here I am using nothing but debian, i don't even boot xp anymore`
`06:34.54`	`rdancer`	`nite613: not accessible from the net-in-wide`
`06:34.54`	`rdancer`	`s/-in-/-at-/`
`06:34.56`	`samrolken`	`already installed it.`
`06:35.11`	`rdancer`	`nite613: you can speak openly here`
`06:35.36`	`dreamer_`	`stoned --- i wish i could wipe the XP off the computer i hate the f!@#%$%# !#$%#.... but i'm forced to use it every once in a while`
`06:35.49`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, same here, i game`
`06:36.01`	`dreamer_`	`i get MS-word files that crash OpenOffice.org`
`06:36.24`	`rdancer`	`dreamer_: use vnc`
`06:36.34`	`stoned`	`msword to html convert, then copy/paste back into open office :)`
`06:36.41`	`rdancer`	`stoned: bah`
`06:36.43`	`stoned`	`rdancer, can't use vnc from xp on a dual boot system`
`06:37.01`	`*** join/#debian shuning (~sbia@60-240-11-221-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au)`
`06:37.03`	`stoned`	`wiat`
`06:37.04`	`samrolken`	`So, why in top does it say "2 users" but the w command only shows 1 user?`
`06:37.14`	`stoned`	`i misunderstand what you were trying to say, vnc? how`
`06:37.42`	`peterS`	`samrolken: w shows login sessions. users can have processes running without being logged in interactively`
`06:37.50`	`peterS`	`samrolken: also, top might be counting all your root processes as a user`
`06:38.04`	`rdancer`	`dreamer_: you can dedicate just a barebones PC to running office, and access it from within debian or any other os vnc runs on...`
`06:38.16`	`samrolken`	`okay, how can I check network connections?`
`06:38.54`	`nite613`	`rdancer: There is a tool called "THP" (tiny honeypot) that does what I want. Problem is that running it on my own machine won't allow me to test proxies reliably since my ISP blocks many incoming ports`
`06:38.54`	`dreamer_`	`rdancer no dice--- the computer i have windows#@$%!$ on is a laptop`
`06:39.19`	`nite613`	`So if anyone knows of an accesible IP running THP I'd like to hear it ;)`
`06:39.20`	`Guerin`	`gah, all wms except xfce4.2 are shit`
`06:39.42`	`*** join/#debian cowbud (~Jamius@4.13.23.236)`
`06:39.49`	`dreamer_`	`uuughhh... just frustrated... it all started with a kernel upgrade--- somehow lilo doesn't manage to get it right`
`06:39.50`	`*** part/#debian foof (~103360BC3@ip68-111-74-81.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`06:40.34`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, install grub for nt into c:\boot\grub make sure your grub files reside there along with menu.lst, then copy grldr into c:\ and modify boot.ini, add a line like C:\grldr="start grub boot loader" save and reboot, it will give you an option at nt boot time, then you can just use that option to boot with instead of xp and it iwll give u the menu for grub boot loader. now you can modify c:\boot\grub\menu.lst and include your device like`
`06:40.34`	`stoned`	`hd(0,0) and specify your kernel with param /root=/dev/hdblah and your initrd = your initrd file`
`06:40.38`	`stoned`	`hope that helps`
`06:40.46`	`rdancer`	`nite613: yes, honeypots; forgot about this use. that's exactly the only thing it's a usable setup for. get a real isp, or ask someone who has such an isp if they could host a machine for you for a few days?`
`06:41.18`	`rdancer`	`dreamer_: like, you absolutely must use the mso while not conected, right?`
`06:41.23`	`novem`	`i see3 http.conf files, wich do i edit /etc/apache/httpd.conf or the one in usr/share? ;o/`
`06:42.00`	`nite613`	`rdancer: Exactly the only thing :) Well in my case it's not, since I'm not intending to run a honeypot, but to test proxies. Ah well, real ISP it is then unless I can find someone else's honeypot to mess with! :)`
`06:42.19`	`rdancer`	`novem: in debian, if it's a debian package, /etc/apache/httpd.conf`
`06:42.27`	`*** join/#debian bni (~bni@c-2b4a73d5.03-1055-767374101.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`06:42.30`	`novem`	`thanks.`
`06:42.49`	`rdancer`	`!etc`
`06:42.49`	`dpkg`	`from memory, etc is something marginally brain-dead people say when they know their statement is incomplete, but they can't figure out how to complete it or /etc, the directory that contains all the config files`
`06:42.53`	`dreamer_`	`rdancer -- i don't want to handcuffed by this... besides--there are other random programs on windows.. that don't run in wine and aren't available on linux`
`06:43.03`	`*** part/#debian Ziero (~hedback@h128n2fls35o258.telia.com)`
`06:43.36`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, that is where virtual pc'ing comes in, if you absoluely must run non wine-able windows programs on linux`
`06:43.40`	`novem`	`has anyone here had sucess with cedega?`
`06:43.56`	`rdancer`	`dreamer_: if you can get the comp networked, vnc is the ultimate answer.`
`06:44.00`	`dreamer_`	`yeah.... well you need a virtual pc program`
`06:44.01`	`veruus`	`I'm converting some irc.2600.net sucka to debian`
`06:44.15`	`rdancer`	`dreamer_: wine is a crap`
`06:44.17`	`stoned`	`rdancer, whats with the vnc passion :)`
`06:44.32`	`novem`	`anyone have sucess with cedega & world of warcraft?`
`06:44.39`	`rdancer`	`novem: no`
`06:44.40`	`dreamer_`	`and those cost... and I was FORCED to buy the F!@#%$#% WINXP any way...`
`06:44.42`	`rdancer`	`!anyone`
`06:44.42`	`dpkg`	`**anyone: No such nick/channel - and yes, there probably is someone, somewhere, who knows or runs it; that doesn't mean I* do.`
`06:44.43`	`stoned`	`novem, freecraft`
`06:44.51`	`novem`	`freecraft? lol`
`06:45.00`	`rdancer`	`isn't fc a demo?`
`06:45.03`	`stoned`	`its a wc clone`
`06:45.10`	`novem`	`ahh.`
`06:45.13`	`stoned`	`i think its the whole thing`
`06:45.18`	`rdancer`	`(as all the free/oss games)`
`06:45.21`	`nvz`	`Freecraft is a warcraft clone.. fcmp is free files`
`06:45.25`	`dreamer_`	`i've thought about the virtual stuff... but it takes knowledge i don't have yet... and currently don't have time to acquire`
`06:45.25`	`novem`	`WoW just came out, completely diff from warcraft`
`06:45.54`	`nvz`	`!info fcmp-data`
`06:46.04`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, what more knowledge do you need, run manauls/docs on either vmware/bochs`
`06:46.11`	`stoned`	`read*`
`06:46.12`	`sussudio`	`!whine dreamer_`
`06:46.19`	`nvz`	`!info fcmp`
`06:46.22`	`cat`	`ok im here`
`06:46.24`	`dpkg`	`fcmp: (Free media files for FreeCraft), section games, is optional. Version: 1.18.20030311-2 (sid), Packaged size: 8176 kB, Installed size: 13460 kB`
`06:46.30`	`rdancer`	`dreamer_: vnc shouldn't take that much time to setup. and it's nothing you have to use once it's set up`
`06:46.45`	`rdancer`	`whoa, ~13M`
`06:46.52`	`rdancer`	`seems like it's the whole thing`
`06:47.03`	`dreamer_`	`well... any case i'd have to buy a vnc`
`06:47.10`	`rdancer`	`vnc is free`
`06:47.18`	`rdancer`	`!vnc`
`06:47.18`	`dpkg`	`somebody said vnc was Virtual Network Computing, at http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ VNC Tight Encoder at http://www.ce.cctpu.edu.ru/vnc/ for low-bandwidth links like dial-up.. GUI remote-access, or has nice friends at http://www.tridiavnc.com/, or check forum.hexonet.com, hexonet.de for an alternative vnc server which can export an already existing display. . http://www.realvnc.com, or see http://developvnc.org/ from tridia, or see x-not-vnc`
`06:47.21`	`*** join/#debian tomb0y (~gab@66.90.107.102)`
`06:47.22`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, what is the problem you came to #debian with, state it so we can help you with it, be as informative as can be`
`06:47.35`	`coywolf`	`anyone uses Hashcash?`
`06:47.44`	`*** join/#debian Orlino (hey@c211-28-183-33.mckinn1.vic.optusnet.com.au)`
`06:47.50`	`rdancer`	`dpkg: vnc =~ s/tridia/trivia/`
`06:47.51`	`dpkg`	`rdancer: OK`
`06:47.51`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, u mean a vnc client for windows? there are free ones out there, like tightvnc n shit`
`06:48.10`	`rdancer`	`!tell coywolf about anyone`
`06:48.18`	`dreamer_`	`i'm trying to figure out how to resurrect my laptop --- winXP/debian/mandrake dual boot`
`06:48.26`	`Guerin`	`!anyone use`
`06:48.26`	`dpkg`	`No, no one uses it, not even the people who use it.`
`06:48.35`	`stoned`	`dreamer install either grub for nt, or grub itself on the mbr`
`06:48.43`	`Guerin`	`dreamer_: fdisk would be a good start`
`06:48.56`	`coywolf`	`!hashcash`
`06:49.05`	`dreamer_`	`not fdisk--- the boot sector is okay`
`06:49.06`	`coywolf`	`dpkg hashcash`
`06:49.06`	`dpkg`	`coywolf: I don't know, could you explain it?`
`06:49.07`	`rdancer`	`!mbr`
`06:49.07`	`dpkg`	`somebody said mbr was the Master Boot Record, the first bit of code loaded from the hard drive when a PC boots. to install a clean MBR (e.g. to get rid of lilo if it is in the mbr) from DOS one can run "fdisk /mbr"; from linux "install-mbr /dev/hda"`
`06:49.08`	`novem`	`gah i dont wanna dive into httpd.conf, is there a default directory that i can just put an index.htm in? if so where?`
`06:49.09`	`Orlino`	`I want to install php and mysql already have apache 1.3. should I go for php4 if so then php4 package and php4-mysql?`
`06:49.20`	`*** join/#debian xtapo (~ted@user-uinj4fp.dialup.mindspring.com)`
`06:49.24`	`cafuego`	`novem: /var/www`
`06:49.26`	`xtapo`	`Hey all.`
`06:49.29`	`novem`	`thanks`
`06:49.37`	`dondelelcaro`	`Orlino: so just apt-get install php4 php4-mysql mysql-server`
`06:49.40`	`cat`	`hey xtapo`
`06:49.53`	`xtapo`	`I installed the FreeDesktop.org HAL using the wonders of APT, as I heard it works well with Gnome 2.8`
`06:49.56`	`*** join/#debian kreg (~kreg@209.161.26.78)`
`06:50.00`	`rdancer`	`novem: if you don't want do understand httpd.conf, apache is not for you`
`06:50.02`	`xtapo`	`shit happens`
`06:50.03`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, you could copy the current 512 byets of the bootsector holding ntldr info to a file, and point grub to it and chainload +1 to boot the xp, and boot madrake/debian with your grub`
`06:50.10`	`xtapo`	`And now my CD-ROM drive is gone.`
`06:50.13`	`dreamer_`	`it is the boot loader as far as i know... lilo F!!^%#$@ the update... and the image of the boot drive doesn't cut it for booting--- iget a kernel panic`
`06:50.26`	`rdancer`	`novem: you'll have to change things to suit your needs. #apache will usually help in the pursue`
`06:50.30`	`cat`	`xtapo: did you mount your cdrom?`
`06:50.42`	`Orlino`	`dondelelcaro: ok cool, mysql server is not the latest available, not big deal?`
`06:50.44`	`cafuego`	`stoned: You don't need to, you can simply point grub at the NT/XP partition and chainload that`
`06:50.44`	`xtapo`	`cat: It can't, it says that /dev/cdrom does not exist.`
`06:50.44`	`stoned`	`dreamer_, image of the boot drive? wtf do you mean`
`06:50.49`	`xtapo`	`Thus, my problem`
`06:50.49`	`dreamer_`	`stoned---that's sort of what i've done....`
`06:51.06`	`dreamer_`	`http://individual.utoronto.ca/bonert/debian_install.html <-- that's how i set it up...`
`06:51.15`	`xtapo`	`(of course, /dev/cdrom did exist prior to this big problem)`
`06:51.17`	`stoned`	`cafuego, oh, I thought you had to preserve the crappy nt bootsect`
`06:51.22`	`dreamer_`	`dd if=/dev/hda3 of=/mnt/hda2/bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1`
`06:51.31`	`cat`	`xtapo: ok`
`06:51.55`	`dreamer_`	`hda2 is a msdos drive... hda3 is the "/boot" ...`
`06:51.59`	`stoned`	`fuck this`
`06:52.04`	`stoned`	`im gonna go smoke weed`
`06:52.07`	`rdancer`	`xtapo: /dev/cdrom should be a symlink to whatever your cd-rom drive device node is:`
`06:52.12`	`stoned`	`good luck with all ya'll problems`
`06:52.15`	`rdancer`	`lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 Jan 27 2004 /dev/cdrom -> /dev/cdrom0`
`06:52.20`	`rdancer`	`lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Jan 27 2004 /dev/cdrom0 -> /dev/hdc`
`06:52.26`	`dreamer_`	`stoned -- wish i could have some of the weed...`
`06:52.33`	`rdancer`	`brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 22, 0 Mar 14 2002 /dev/hdc`
`06:52.46`	`xtapo`	`I forgot what it was, rdancer.`
`06:53.12`	`rdancer`	`!seen dea`
`06:53.13`	`dpkg`	`rdancer: i haven't seen 'dea'`
`06:53.28`	`rdancer`	`stoned: seems like they are not here, go on!`
`06:54.20`	`stoned`	`rdancer, it would'be been easier to catch onto it you had capitalized DEA :)`
`06:54.35`	`*** join/#debian hdkiller_ (hdkiller@217.94-182-adsl-pool.axelero.hu)`
`06:54.38`	`xoz`	`your brain has its own chemicals similar to weed's. enable them.`
`06:54.39`	`stoned`	`had me thinkin for a minute im like wtf is he goin on about lol`
`06:55.03`	`stoned`	`xoz, i doubt any similar to thc exists in my brain`
`06:55.24`	`rdancer`	`stoned: that would be toooo easy ;-)`
`06:55.24`	`xoz`	`stoned: read latest issue of scientific american`
`06:55.26`	`*** join/#debian enabl (~enabl@host81-157-163-89.range81-157.btcentralplus.com)`
`06:55.27`	`stoned`	`and one can't just will one's nuerochemicals to increase/decrease`
`06:55.41`	`dreamer_`	`i'm going to head out.... my supratentorium isn't functional at the moment`
`06:55.59`	`xtapo`	`rdancer: uh oh....`
`06:56.12`	`xtapo`	`methinks the kernel isn't recognizing it anymore for some odd reason.`
`06:56.17`	`dreamer_`	`i'm also too frustrated`
`06:56.18`	`rdancer`	`xoz: which again proves the point that weed is harmless and good`
`06:56.26`	`*** join/#debian lancey (Shady@213.137.48.2)`
`06:56.34`	`lancey`	`hi guys`
`06:56.36`	`stoned`	`rdancer, word`
`06:56.41`	`xoz`	`rdancer: yep. that's what sciam is talking and reiterating in their latest issue`
`06:57.05`	`lancey`	`anyone knows where can i get the open-source Marvell drivers for Adaptec 81xx`
`06:57.16`	`*** join/#debian paulliu (~paulliu@82.189.192.210.dynamic.ttn.net)`
`06:57.33`	`*** part/#debian jazzmans (~arthur@ip68-224-7-31.lv.lv.cox.net)`
`06:57.33`	`rdancer`	`xoz: "this research was sponsored by the PotCorp, Inc."...`
`06:57.44`	`stoned`	`i read a hightimes article "jesus was a stoner" talking about how the anointment oils were made out of hemp, and how he used hemp/marijuana to cure lep. and other skin diseases and the like`
`06:57.48`	`stoned`	`interesting yet funny`
`06:58.00`	`*** join/#debian tomb0y (~gab@subscribes.to.playboy.and.26OO.com)`
`06:58.27`	`*** join/#debian sanxiyn (tinuviel@222.233.187.22)`
`06:58.28`	`*** join/#debian kreg_ (~kreg@209.161.26.78)`
`06:58.47`	`rdancer`	`lancey: adaptec probably will tell you, they seem to be quite into the opensource thing`
`06:58.48`	`xtapo`	`woot!`
`06:58.52`	`xtapo`	`it was udev!`
`06:59.01`	`xoz`	`rdancer: it's true. the negative thing about weed is done by religious conservatives. scientists will tell you, otherwise.`
`06:59.03`	`xtapo`	`uninstalling udev, not even a reboot needed, fixed it!`
`06:59.17`	`rdancer`	`!tell lancey about supporte`
`06:59.22`	`rdancer`	`!tell lancey about supported`
`06:59.24`	`rich_`	`Not all weed is good weed.`
`07:00.13`	`*** join/#debian sss (~chatzilla@dyn-83-157-71-55.ppp.tiscali.fr)`
`07:00.16`	`rdancer`	`xoz: i've yet to hear a sound argument for not letting people smoking whatever they fancy to smoke`
`07:00.35`	`lancey`	`rdancer i can't event find my controller on their web`
`07:00.57`	`rdancer`	`xoz: but, personally, i've seen to many pot-junkies to engage in this business`
`07:01.02`	`lancey`	`it was developed using a Marvell chip for integration in mobos`
`07:01.11`	`sanxiyn`	`rdancer: passive smoking?`
`07:01.14`	`*** join/#debian FireEgl (Proteus851@adsl-159-170-114.bhm.bellsouth.net)`
`07:01.22`	`rdancer`	`lancey: i've already given you the answer. go rtfm`
`07:01.23`	`lancey`	`mine mobo is SuperMicro - when i asked them - they sayd - "ask Adaptec"`
`07:01.26`	`xoz`	`rdancer: ever wonder why european countries with legalized weed have the lowest user and addicts?`
`07:01.27`	`stoned`	`rich_, true, some weed is schwag :(`
`07:01.27`	`sanxiyn`	`(was it called "second-hand smoking"? whatever)`
`07:01.31`	`lancey`	`and so did i, no response yet`
`07:01.39`	`sanxiyn`	`hm, not that weed.`
`07:01.57`	`lancey`	`just heard Marvell has released some opensource drivers, and wondered if anyone here has heard anything about them`
`07:01.58`	`lancey`	`sorry`
`07:02.04`	`rdancer`	`xoz: i'm not sure you can get "addicted" to weed?`
`07:02.05`	`*** part/#debian xtapo (~ted@user-uinj4fp.dialup.mindspring.com)`
`07:02.14`	`*** join/#debian try_catch_this (trycatchth@216.110.108.31)`
`07:02.21`	`stoned`	`xoz, good point, as in those countries they have embrased sex too, and the sex crime rate is comparatively lower than that of other countries, these euro. have porn on public tv lol, they embrace all this`
`07:02.41`	`stoned`	`rdancer, pscychologically yes, no physical dependencies yet proven`
`07:02.49`	`*** join/#debian tomb0y (~gab@subscribes.to.playboy.and.26OO.com)`
`07:02.53`	`xoz`	`rdancer: stoned: the moment something is banned, it's more tiltillating.`
`07:02.59`	`sss`	`Hi, what's best way to export an environmental variable regardless of how I log on - terminal, xterm, gdm, eshell (launched from emacs), etc?`
`07:03.00`	`rdancer`	`sanxiyn: you can't generally passive-smoke THC, it's not that kind of thing. you only get the dirt up your lungs, but not the substance`
`07:03.04`	`rich_`	`Second hand smokeing really isnt the problem, after all, everything eventually combines with oxygen and burns, so the only way to stop polluting the air is not to grow it in the first place, and that's sort of a lost cause`
`07:03.19`	`stoned`	`lol`
`07:03.19`	`sanxiyn`	`rdancer: What is THC?`
`07:03.20`	`stew`	`duud you *almost said titi`
`07:03.24`	`atrus`	`is there any way to use xmodmap to "drop" a mouse button? or any way to just get X to completely ignore a button?`
`07:03.29`	`rdancer`	`!thc`
`07:03.29`	`dpkg`	`it has been said that thc is delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, or delta-7 is also thc but isn't heated yet`
`07:03.33`	`stoned`	`sanxiyn, tetra hydro cannibinol i beliebe`
`07:03.46`	`stoned`	`or 'The Hackers Choice' back in early 90s`
`07:03.47`	`stoned`	`:)`
`07:03.50`	`rdancer`	`stoned: almost`
`07:03.54`	`toresbe`	`Hahaha, Debian rocks`
`07:03.59`	`*** join/#debian project9 (~chatzilla@219.65.87.50)`
`07:04.05`	`sanxiyn`	`I am not against marijuana, personally.`
`07:04.13`	`project9`	`how do i find /search in /etc which file type ic perl ---- as file file name`
`07:04.15`	`rdancer`	`huh thc a hackers' choice? that doesn't make a sense. how possibly can you think while abusing thc?`
`07:04.18`	`toresbe`	`What other distro has a bot with elaborate factoid about ganja :)`
`07:04.20`	`rdancer`	`s/abusing/using/`
`07:04.40`	`stoned`	`project9, man find or man locate perhaps`
`07:04.43`	`xoz`	`anything in excess is bad. so, live in moderation :)`
`07:04.52`	`stoned`	`these two commands should help you in finding files/dirs`
`07:05.00`	`project9`	`ok`
`07:05.01`	`rdancer`	`toresbe: danix will, as it's czech 8-)`
`07:05.02`	`project9`	`thx`
`07:05.18`	`stew`	`!thx`
`07:05.18`	`dpkg`	`THX is an audio technology company founded by George Lucas. See http://www.thx.com. If you mean "thanks", please just say so. Thx.`
`07:05.26`	`atrus`	`my mouse has buttons for scroll up/down, but they each generate superfluous button events themselves that i'd like ignored. tried mapping that particular button to 0 or -1 with xmodmap, each fails.`
`07:05.37`	`toresbe`	`rdancer: You generally can, I presume. UCB coders were mostly all into smoking marijuana and still produced a kickass UNIX distro back in the day`
`07:05.48`	`rdancer`	`project9: file(1), too`
`07:05.51`	`*** join/#debian manifestation836 (~monkey@SP1-24.207.210.190.charter-stl.com)`
`07:06.02`	`stoned`	`rdancer, it was a group of hackers who created mostly dos/windows based 'hacking' utilities like wardialers crackers bruter forcers blah blah`
`07:06.06`	`rich_`	`Its not like heroin or crank, people who smoke all the time, build up a resistance. I know theres supposed to be a resistance to speed and heroin too but the difference is, if you take enough to kill you, your resistance wont save you`
`07:06.11`	`rdancer`	`toresbe: you have some evidence to support this?`
`07:06.24`	`project9`	`rdancer: how do i search in /etc`
`07:06.26`	`toresbe`	`rdancer: No, but it's common knowledge, I guess...`
`07:07.23`	`stoned`	`THC was a pretty well renound group in the early days of aol 2.0 and stuff`
`07:07.23`	`toresbe`	`rdancer: There was a lot of pot smokin' going on in UCB in the 60's and 70's`
`07:07.23`	`atrus`	`toresbe: i thought that was lsd`
`07:07.23`	`stoned`	`like a decade or more ago`
`07:07.23`	`toresbe`	`atrus: No... Well, that too, to a degree.`
`07:07.23`	`stoned`	`anyway both thc's were good`
`07:07.23`	`stoned`	`:D`
`07:07.23`	`rdancer`	`toresbe: sure, which doesn't mean the CS lab wasn't an exception, and therefore capable of thinking ;-)`
`07:07.34`	`toresbe`	`rdancer: Well, have you ever tried THC?`
`07:07.38`	`rdancer`	`toresbe: sure`
`07:07.40`	`rich_`	`tobacco too. Also opium. In general people became more concerned about their health in the 80's and all forms of smokeing decreased`
`07:07.45`	`toresbe`	`rdancer: Did it hinder your thoughts?`
`07:07.49`	`atrus`	`"There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson"`
`07:08.03`	`rdancer`	`toresbe: scrap the "tried" bit. i just smoked it few times`
`07:08.10`	`stoned`	`me being from pakistan, i got the hookup on opium/hash :D`
`07:08.15`	`sanxiyn`	`atrus: Heh.`
`07:08.15`	`toresbe`	`atrus: Well, LSD came out of UCB as an experimental problem in the 30s`
`07:08.23`	`toresbe`	`experimental error*`
`07:08.24`	`stoned`	`just too bad i don't have money for plane ticket to visit home and party`
`07:08.41`	`rdancer`	`toresbe: i was drunk enough not to care, probably. and was far away from coding anyway`
`07:08.43`	`Guerin`	`ah, I see we've reverted to #debian-dope again`
`07:08.44`	`*** join/#debian borisc (~boris@nat.hackerhalfwayhouse.org)`
`07:08.49`	`toresbe`	`rdancer: I see...`
`07:08.57`	`toresbe`	`Guerin: It's a stray discussion :)`
`07:09.30`	`Guerin`	`grrr, wtf is urxvt not obeying my .Xdefaults`
`07:09.33`	`*** join/#debian Genesee (~Genesee@69-200-227-4.nyc.rr.com)`
`07:09.36`	`rdancer`	`toresbe: you can't really "try" drugs.`
`07:09.39`	`sanxiyn`	`toresbe: Didn't LSB come from Europe?`
`07:09.51`	`rdancer`	`!lsd history`
`07:09.52`	`toresbe`	`sanxiyn: No, LSD came from Berkeley, IIRC...`
`07:09.54`	`rich_`	`lsd goes back centuries before berkely. If you look at old recipies for witches brews they often contained natural sources of lsd`
`07:10.03`	`rdancer`	`!lsd`
`07:10.03`	`dpkg`	`methinks lsd is 3l33t or lysergic acid diethylamide or Linux Software Distribution or linux + freebsd, or a way to mistype ls. see also sl or http://www.erowid.org/archive/hyperreal/drugs/humor/man.lsd, or see FreeLSD`
`07:10.03`	`sanxiyn`	`toresbe: "experimental problem in 30s" couldn't happen in UCB...`
`07:10.04`	`rich_`	`specifically the mold of rye`
`07:10.12`	`mwilson`	`Guerin: It has its own, but it doesn't obey xterm's, if I rememver right.`
`07:10.13`	*** join/#debian h4mm3r` (~h4mm3r@81-208-60-202.fastres.net)
`07:10.15`	`stew`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_LSD`
`07:10.40`	`cowbud`	`wikipedia is so handy`
`07:10.49`	`sanxiyn`	`Wikipeida rocks.`
`07:10.58`	`stoned`	`i prefer organic myself, psylocin/cybin is my prefferred hallucinogen, the idea of something involving lab work just freaks me out`
`07:11.08`	`stoned`	`thas why i don't do drugs :)`
`07:11.13`	`rdancer`	``LSD was discovered in 1938 and is one of the most potent mood-changing chemicals. ''
`07:11.16`	`sanxiyn`	`LSD was first synthesised by the Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann in the Sandoz (now Novartis) laboratories in 1938.`
`07:11.23`	`project9`	`how do i start openmosix in 2.6`
`07:11.37`	`rdancer`	`wikipedia rocks!`
`07:11.37`	`toresbe`	`Oh, my bad.`
`07:11.45`	`*** join/#debian kreg_ (~kreg@209.161.26.78)`
`07:12.14`	`mwilson`	`Guerin: Why would you use urxvt when you could just use xterm, anyway?`
`07:12.24`	`sanxiyn`	`mwilson: uxterm?`
`07:13.15`	`Guerin`	`mwilson: uxterm's default colours were fucked up, but since I had to manually redefine my urxvt colours, that's moot`
`07:13.48`	`sanxiyn`	`What is the best terminal`
`07:13.57`	`rich_`	`stoned growing pot indoors is just like a laboratory too. Especially if you don't use dirt`
`07:14.02`	`mwilson`	`!best`
`07:14.03`	`dpkg`	`best for what? please define what you mean by "best" Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis!`
`07:14.06`	`sanxiyn`	`s/terminal/terminal emulator/`
`07:14.26`	`rdancer`	`sanxiyn: ^^`
`07:14.41`	`rdancer`	`sanxiyn: they all sux hard`
`07:14.53`	`*** join/#debian iratsu (~iratsu@modemcable157.255-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`07:14.54`	`sanxiyn`	`rdancer: too bad`
`07:15.18`	`iratsu`	`what architecture are apple computers?`
`07:15.29`	`sanxiyn`	`powerpc.`
`07:15.33`	`Guerin`	`iratsu: what architecture are IBM computers?`
`07:15.34`	`rdancer`	`but helix uses rxvt + fluxbox, and has her .Xdefaults hanging around somewhere on the net, fwiw`
`07:15.40`	`Guerin`	`no, they're not all ppc`
`07:15.54`	`iratsu`	`how well does debian run on powerpc versus i386?`
`07:16.01`	`sanxiyn`	`iratsu: Very well.`
`07:16.02`	`Guerin`	`iratsu: ask #debian-ppc`
`07:16.05`	`Guerin`	`err`
`07:16.09`	`Guerin`	`#debianppc`
`07:16.13`	`iratsu`	`k, thanks`
`07:16.26`	`*** join/#debian ^ (skquinn@dsl093-026-112.hou1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`07:16.32`	`sanxiyn`	`iratsu: It will feel same as x86, which may be good or bad.`
`07:16.34`	`*** join/#debian paulproteus (~paulprote@h-67-102-97-191.mclnva23.covad.net)`
`07:16.36`	`Guerin`	`ok, bounce again`
`07:16.52`	`toresbe`	`sanxiyn: I was just about to reply "The VT100, by far!" :)`
`07:17.33`	`toresbe`	`sanxiyn: the TI silent 700, tek 4014, Teletypes, and the DECwriter are runner-ups`
`07:18.05`	`paulproteus`	`I'm setting up a kerberos realm. I can use kinit to get Kerberos 5 tickets, but I can't get pam_krb5 to act as the central login to replace /etc/shadow.`
`07:18.12`	`paulproteus`	`Does anyone have any experience with Kerberos?`
`07:18.21`	`sussudio`	`!irritate paulproteus`
`07:18.22`	`dpkg`	`paulproteus: HELP ME!!! who uses sound plz msg me, ArNaX`
`07:18.29`	`sanxiyn`	`Guerin: Some Apple computers were m68k I guess.`
`07:19.02`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 726] by debhelper`
`07:19.25`	`Guerin`	`sanxiyn: and other stuff, yeah`
`07:19.31`	`*** join/#debian zignig (~zignig@OptusSatelliteServices.22bjc76f09.optus.net.au)`
`07:20.06`	`Guerin`	`my only point was that you can't aalways categorise computer arches by manufacture - some make more than one`
`07:20.25`	`*** join/#debian pliksu (~plinde@adsl-230-186.regionline.fi)`
`07:20.25`	`sanxiyn`	`http://bugs.debian.org/283976 is great.`
`07:20.28`	`sanxiyn`	`Great humor.`
`07:20.29`	`Guerin`	`wtf is ArNaX?`
`07:20.42`	`zignig`	`Guerin: and some archs are made by more than one manufacturer`
`07:20.43`	`cat`	`lol`
`07:20.50`	`Guerin`	`zignig: that goes without saying`
`07:20.53`	`paulproteus`	`sussudio: I don't think that was quite due. I provided useful details....`
`07:21.06`	`rdancer`	`Guerin: AIX`
`07:21.06`	`rdancer`	`<PROTECTED>`
`07:21.24`	`Guerin`	`rdancer: ?`
`07:21.40`	`Guerin`	`ArNaX = AIX ?`
`07:21.47`	`sanxiyn`	`??????`
`07:21.51`	`toresbe`	`It worked`
`07:22.07`	`sanxiyn`	`toresbe: What worked?`
`07:22.46`	`*** join/#debian LaurenceRowe (~ldr@idea13.plus.com)`
`07:22.48`	`*** join/#debian Cyda (~cyda@12-216-198-128.client.mchsi.com)`
`07:22.48`	`stew`	`!it worked`
`07:22.49`	`dpkg`	`omedetoo-gozaimasu`
`07:23.15`	`sanxiyn`	`Wow.`
`07:23.16`	`stew`	`wtf is that?`
`07:23.35`	`project9`	`how do i check snort is in action /its started`
`07:23.40`	`toresbe`	`6rdThe ping`
`07:23.54`	`toresbe`	`rdancer: The ping`
`07:24.03`	`sanxiyn`	`stew: It means おめでとうございます.`
`07:24.08`	`*** join/#debian gen (~gen@66.169.152.101.ts46v-10.otnd2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com)`
`07:24.13`	`cat`	`yuck`
`07:24.14`	`sanxiyn`	`stew: Can you read that?`
`07:24.28`	`guestish`	`i hate vfat...`
`07:24.30`	`Guerin`	`sanxiyn: I can, just fine`
`07:24.36`	`guestish`	`friggin 2 gig limit`
`07:24.37`	`stew`	`i don't think a font was ever invented that would make me be able to read that`
`07:24.47`	`sanxiyn`	`stew: It's Japanese Hiragana.`
`07:24.58`	`Guerin`	`the default uxterm font works :)`
`07:25.14`	`xoz`	`whois sanixyn`
`07:25.16`	`rich_`	`guestish I thought it was for floppies.`
`07:25.16`	`sanxiyn`	`Translated to English, it means, "congraduation".`
`07:25.25`	`stew`	`Guerin: yeah but i still wouldn't be able to read it`
`07:25.25`	`guestish`	`rich_: heh`
`07:25.26`	`sanxiyn`	`It worked, so dpkg is congraduating you.`
`07:25.31`	`Guerin`	`stew: heh`
`07:25.39`	`guestish`	`rich_: not my comp, im just trying to transfer a 2.8 gig movie to it`
`07:25.44`	`cat`	`anyone here knows good manuals to read about Debian since i'm bored?`
`07:25.46`	`*** join/#debian mrwoody (~paolo@cpe-67-49-45-109.socal.rr.com)`
`07:25.58`	`rich_`	`guestish There was a sign on an sco machine at a computer lab that told people how to use it on floppies....`
`07:26.01`	`stew`	`congraduation? like on three's company?`
`07:26.02`	`paulproteus`	`cat: The Linux Networking HOWTO is good.`
`07:26.06`	`Guerin`	`cat: debian.org/doc`
`07:26.12`	`paulproteus`	`Advanced Bash Scripting Guide, cat, too.`
`07:26.24`	`guestish`	`rich_: uh, ok?`
`07:26.33`	`Guerin`	`congratulation, I think`
`07:26.40`	`sanxiyn`	`cat: How to make a flame war on Debian lists.`
`07:26.55`	`rich_`	`guestish Thats why I thought it was for floppies.`
`07:26.58`	`sanxiyn`	`Guerin: Oh, my bad.`
`07:27.02`	`Guerin`	`sanxiyn: :)`
`07:27.06`	`guestish`	`rich_: lol`
`07:27.10`	`guestish`	`!vfat`
`07:27.10`	`dpkg`	`i guess vfat is a very fat 32 bit version of a pathetic filesystem, or apt-get install dosfstools, then man mkfs.vfat, or for info on getting write access for regular users, "/msg apt vfatrw"`
`07:27.12`	`sanxiyn`	`Congratulation.`
`07:27.15`	`stew`	`cat: dfsg nm`
`07:27.19`	`stew`	`cat: and sc`
`07:27.21`	`guestish`	`hrm, there was a joke factoid..`
`07:27.23`	`sanxiyn`	`Guerin: I always got that wrong...`
`07:27.32`	`sanxiyn`	`!it worked`
`07:27.32`	`dpkg`	`omedetoo-gozaimasu`
`07:27.41`	`*** join/#debian JoshTriplett (~josh@joshtriplett.user)`
`07:27.47`	`stew`	`!joke`
`07:27.47`	`dpkg`	`stop abusing the bot already`
`07:28.00`	`stew`	`!factinfo joke`
`07:28.00`	`dpkg`	`joke -- last modified at Mon Nov 22 08:03:38 2004 by simonrvn!simon@simonrvn.user; it has been requested 4 times, last by stew, 13s ago.`
`07:29.07`	`sanxiyn`	`おめでとおございます`
`07:29.07`	`sanxiyn`	`!`
`07:29.12`	`guestish`	`they should throw fat into the garbage heap...or at least outlaw its use on computers..`
`07:29.13`	`sanxiyn`	`オメデトオゴザイマス!`
`07:29.17`	`sanxiyn`	`(Same thing in Katakana)`
`07:29.35`	`guestish`	`sanxiyn: i dont have unicode on...`
`07:29.38`	`*** join/#debian martin0 (martin@pD955B632.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`07:29.41`	`guestish`	`wouldnt understand it anwyays =P`
`07:29.44`	`*** part/#debian paulproteus (~paulprote@h-67-102-97-191.mclnva23.covad.net)`
`07:29.52`	`JoshTriplett`	`Looks cool here. :)`
`07:29.56`	`guestish`	`heh`
`07:30.20`	`peterS`	`guestish: that's my philosophy on utf-8. I don't speak any languages that require any character sets other than iso-8859-1 / iso-8859-15, so I don't see the point in enabling them`
`07:30.20`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: hey`
`07:30.32`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: Hey.`
`07:30.39`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: How goes it?`
`07:30.40`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: are you good with java?`
`07:30.43`	`project9`	`how do i check snort is in action /its started`
`07:30.45`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: good`
`07:30.46`	`sanxiyn`	`peterS: For me UTF-8 is just essential. Difference, I think.`
`07:30.51`	`guestish`	`peterS: whats the difference between the 2 anyways?`
`07:30.58`	`rich_`	`guestish I guess they would need something else with simmilliar attributes, for floppies. It needs to have very little overhead`
`07:30.59`	`guestish`	`peterS: 2 more characters or something?`
`07:31.00`	`peterS`	`guestish: between which two? I mentioned 3 character sets`
`07:31.06`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: Reasonably good with the core language.`
`07:31.10`	`guestish`	`peterS: iso-8859-1 and -15`
`07:31.17`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: do you know how to combine regex in java`
`07:31.20`	`peterS`	`guestish: iso-8859-1 / iso-8859-15? several characters were added to -15, and several rather useless ones dropped to make room`
`07:31.29`	`peterS`	`guestish: for example, the OE and oe glyphs, and the euro sign`
`07:31.32`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: Not a clue. :)`
`07:31.37`	`guestish`	`rich_: for floppies its good and all, but i mean for hard drives its kinda old..`
`07:31.39`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: I could help you look though. :)`
`07:31.45`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: I'm so frustrated`
`07:32.01`	`peterS`	`guestish: the euro is the big reason -15 was created, but since they were doing a new one anyway they made a few other additions. oe / OE are the ones I can remember offhand`
`07:32.02`	`*** join/#debian Ra1stlin (~raistlin@pD9EA228B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`07:32.06`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: Can you clarify what you mean by combine?`
`07:32.12`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: Alternation?`
`07:32.33`	`sanxiyn`	`dan2: A \| B ?`
`07:32.43`	`JoshTriplett`	`sanxiyn: Right. :)`
`07:32.46`	`guestish`	`meh, cant hurt to use UTF-8`
`07:32.48`	`*** join/#debian man_in_shack (~btk@203.48.248.186)`
`07:32.50`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: yes`
`07:33.03`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: What class are you using for regexen?`
`07:33.12`	`rich_`	`guestish yes, it really is old. file systems have come a long way since then, and Im sure theres better ones. I remember a long time ago, linux install disks used the minix file system because it was so compact`
`07:33.15`	`man_in_shack`	`geforce fx5600xt, xfree4.3, can't seem to set any vidmodes higher than 1024x768 on a second xserver ... do i have to shutdown this xserver?`
`07:33.17`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: for JastServer`
`07:33.30`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: oh, this is for work`
`07:33.34`	`guestish`	`rich_: i like xfs for large files, its really fast compared to ext3`
`07:33.38`	`man_in_shack`	`this one's configured with 1024x768 as the highest res`
`07:33.40`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: and I'm about to pop braincells trying to figure this out`
`07:33.42`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: No, I mean what Java class are you using for the regexen?`
`07:33.43`	`sanxiyn`	`dan2: java.util.regex, or OROMatcher, or others?`
`07:33.49`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: Or do you not have one yet?`
`07:34.02`	`rich_`	`guestish me too. I use one big xfs partition on my only hard disk`
`07:34.04`	`sanxiyn`	`java.util.regex actually rocks, but it's 1.4 thing.`
`07:34.06`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: the java.util.regex`
`07:34.12`	`dan2`	`sanxiyn: so your point?`
`07:34.18`	`peterS`	`guestish: euro: � Z with inverted ^: � z with inverted ^: � S with inverted ^: � s with inverte ^: � OE: � oe: �`
`07:34.34`	`guestish`	`rich_: i just wish they would eliminate fat32 as an option on windows...its old and useless...`
`07:34.42`	`peterS`	`guestish: if those names match the characters you see, you have iso-8859-15. those are the differences from iso-8859-1`
`07:34.50`	`guestish`	`peterS: im using -1 right now`
`07:34.54`	`man_in_shack`	`hmmph`
`07:34.56`	`guestish`	`peterS: gonna switch over to utf-8 in a sec`
`07:35.01`	`rich_`	`guestish well I dont think it's any worrse than the rest of windows.`
`07:35.10`	`peterS`	`guestish: I'll give you those same characters in utf-8 once you've switched (:`
`07:35.13`	`guestish`	`rich_: true...at least i can write to it`
`07:35.16`	`guestish`	`peterS: mmk, thanks :)`
`07:35.18`	`guestish`	`one sec`
`07:35.26`	`guestish`	`i have to reload xchat in order to switch, right?`
`07:35.37`	`sanxiyn`	`dan2: I think java.util.regex is not exactly Perl compatible?`
`07:35.37`	`peterS`	`guestish: most likely. I don't know xchat`
`07:35.44`	`guestish`	`k, sec`
`07:36.14`	`coywolf`	`anyone play chinese chess?`
`07:36.19`	`sanxiyn`	`Hm, no. Sorry.`
`07:36.21`	`*** join/#debian guestish (~AName@guestish.user)`
`07:36.37`	`sanxiyn`	`I was confused.`
`07:36.38`	`dan2`	`sanxiyn: what does that have to do with combining regex`
`07:36.41`	`peterS`	`guestish: utf-8 versions of those iso-8859-15 characters: euro: € Z with inverted ^: Ž z with inverted ^: ž S with inverted ^: Š s with inverte ^: š OE: Œ oe: œ`
`07:36.45`	`guestish`	`alright, this should do it`
`07:36.45`	`sanxiyn`	`dan2: Nothing.`
`07:36.47`	`guestish`	`peterS: mind pasting those again?`
`07:36.56`	`guestish`	`peterS: great, thanks`
`07:36.57`	`guestish`	`switched over`
`07:36.59`	`sanxiyn`	`š looks nice...`
`07:37.02`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: According to several sources of documentation, '\|' works just fine for alternation.`
`07:37.03`	`*** join/#debian SaX (~Nonanggre@85.96.40.101)`
`07:37.08`	`*** join/#debian Triple_ (~triple@CM-inde1-246-230.cm.vtr.net)`
`07:37.14`	`guestish`	`no harm in having all of'm :)`
`07:37.31`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: I don't need to put parentheses?`
`07:37.37`	`peterS`	`guestish: heh. I'm not sure which languages use Ž ž Š š`
`07:37.43`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: I really need a smart regex creator`
`07:37.55`	`guestish`	`peterS: think of it as a flourish :)`
`07:38.00`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: something that will see that both regex are matching in similar areas and combine`
`07:38.07`	`stew`	`dan2: try craigslist`
`07:38.10`	`peterS`	`guestish: like "gue�tish"?`
`07:38.13`	`dan2`	`stew: whats that`
`07:38.16`	`sanxiyn`	`peterS: Czech?`
`07:38.19`	`stew`	`nm`
`07:38.24`	`guestish`	`peterS: =D`
`07:38.25`	`peterS`	`guestish: err, I meant "gueštish"`
`07:38.34`	`dan2`	`stew: whats that?`
`07:38.40`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: There's no indication of precedence in the documentation.`
`07:38.55`	`guestish`	`peterS: that looks better`
`07:38.58`	`guestish`	`maybe its greek`
`07:39.10`	`guestish`	`peterŠ`
`07:39.25`	`peterS`	`sanxiyn: that would be my guess. but czech needs r with inverted ^, I think, which is in iso-8859-2 (I believe) but not iso-8859-15`
`07:39.30`	`peterS`	`guestish: heh`
`07:39.39`	`coywolf`	`anyone play chinese chess? i want to play chinese chess in debian`
`07:39.44`	`Guerin`	`ah fuck, now my font sizes in uxter are all fucked`
`07:39.54`	`sanxiyn`	`coywolf: I can play it.`
`07:40.09`	`Guerin`	`chises chess?`
`07:40.10`	`*** join/#debian etanh (~nado@250.169-182-adsl-pool.axelero.hu)`
`07:40.11`	`sanxiyn`	`peterS: Yes, it is definitely used in Czech.`
`07:40.14`	`Guerin`	`chinese chess?`
`07:40.16`	`peterS`	`coywolf: 'ggz-gtk-games' mentions it`
`07:40.21`	`coywolf`	`Sandman, where are you`
`07:40.22`	`sanxiyn`	`peterS: Czech language is spelled "čeština" in native spelling.`
`07:40.27`	`peterS`	`coywolf: if it's what I think it is`
`07:40.28`	`sanxiyn`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_language`
`07:40.35`	`*** join/#debian novem (novem@c-24-126-27-128.we.client2.attbi.com)`
`07:40.38`	`coywolf`	`peterS, i'll see`
`07:40.59`	`novem`	`could anyone give me the name of a good streaming webcam app?`
`07:41.03`	`sanxiyn`	`coywolf: Do you mean Chinese checker, by any chance?`
`07:41.04`	`jelque`	`how does one scroll up or down a page at a time in vi?`
`07:41.06`	`sanxiyn`	`coywolf: Or XingQi?`
`07:41.16`	`man_in_shack`	`who here knows about running 2 X servers?`
`07:41.19`	`sanxiyn`	`Eh, this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiangqi`
`07:41.28`	`peterS`	`jelque: with modern vi implementations, the PgUp and PgDown keys work (:`
`07:41.32`	`sanxiyn`	`That's what I am thinking of Chinese Chess.`
`07:41.36`	`coywolf`	`peterS, no, Chinese Checkers isn't chinese chess`
`07:41.46`	`peterS`	`coywolf: oh, I thought those were two names for the same thing. never mind, then`
`07:41.47`	`sanxiyn`	`coywolf: Does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiangqi match?`
`07:41.54`	`guestish`	`any point in using iso-8859-15 vs utf-8?`
`07:41.54`	`jelque`	`peterS: ahhh... thanks :)`
`07:42.08`	`guestish`	`not like anyone cant read my typing :)`
`07:42.11`	`coywolf`	`peterS, i don't know what Chinese Checkers is`
`07:42.30`	`rich_`	`what is chinese chess?`
`07:42.32`	`peterS`	`guestish: well, the main thing for me is application complexity. utf-8 is much more complicated to process than a simple charset like iso-8859-15, so some apps have bugs and limitations with utf-8 mode`
`07:42.42`	`guestish`	`bah`
`07:42.45`	`man_in_shack`	`i remember chinese checkers. fun game`
`07:42.51`	`coywolf`	`sanxiyn, oh, yeah`
`07:42.51`	`man_in_shack`	`so's chinese chess`
`07:42.54`	`mwilson`	`jelque: vi has documentation for a reason`
`07:42.58`	`sanxiyn`	`coywolf: I can play Xiangqi very well.`
`07:43.00`	`coywolf`	`peterS, yeah, that's chinese chess`
`07:43.02`	`sanxiyn`	`coywolf: And you?`
`07:43.11`	`coywolf`	`sanxiyn, sure, i'm good at it`
`07:43.12`	`peterS`	`guestish: the reason for this is that in utf-8, characters are represented by a variable number of bytes - anything from 1 byte (US-ASCII) to 6 bytes (not actually used)`
`07:43.15`	`*** join/#debian Benton (goofy@p50926BA6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`07:43.18`	`novem`	`could anyone give me the name of a good streaming webcam app?`
`07:43.24`	`guestish`	`peterS: and iso is fixed, right?`
`07:43.29`	`coywolf`	`peters xiangqi is chinese chess`
`07:43.30`	`dan2`	`JoshTriplett: string concatenation isn't any more efficient than compiling each regex individually`
`07:43.37`	`peterS`	`guestish: in iso-8859-*, each character is exactly one byte`
`07:43.46`	`guestish`	`peterS: 8 bits...makes it easier i suppose`
`07:43.57`	`dan2`	`though I think I need to use it anyway`
`07:43.58`	`peterS`	`guestish: this allows programmers to confuse the meaning of 'character' versus 'byte'`
`07:44.00`	`dan2`	`gnite`
`07:44.11`	`JoshTriplett`	`dan2: G'nite. :)`
`07:44.11`	`Guerin`	`man, I'm working too hard learning go/baduk/weiqui to learn another game`
`07:44.14`	`peterS`	`guestish: so, a string that takes up 6 spaces on the screen will also take 6 bytes in memory, for example`
`07:44.40`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: Can gnugo/cgoban connect directly between two people?`
`07:44.43`	`sanxiyn`	`Guerin: Go is the king of the game. Hooray.`
`07:44.45`	`guestish`	`peterS: so unicode is smaller, but harder for programmers to use?`
`07:44.47`	`jelque`	`mwilson: as does most software out there ;\`
`07:44.53`	`peterS`	`guestish: anyway, utf-8 invalidates this assumption. you can't predict how long a string will render onscreen without counting out the characters in it`
`07:44.54`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack Ive done it. The easy way is use a display manager, like xdm and it was described how to do it in the config file comments`
`07:45.01`	`mwilson`	`guestish: unicode is bigger.`
`07:45.10`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: no, you need to go via nngs - but there's no login required, you can play unregistered`
`07:45.14`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, well i don't actually NEED 2 xservers, that's the thing`
`07:45.17`	`guestish`	`mwilson: but it takes less bytes...`
`07:45.21`	`sanxiyn`	`Guerin: There's also IGS...`
`07:45.23`	`guestish`	`er, bits`
`07:45.26`	`Guerin`	`sanxiyn: it is. Simplicity and complexity all in one.`
`07:45.31`	`*** join/#debian potemkin (~potemkin@efsq.demon.nl)`
`07:45.31`	`peterS`	`guestish: unicode allows the representation of all characters of all the world's languages. well, almost - there are some things that aren't yet given unicode assignments, but it's quite close.`
`07:45.32`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i'm trying to reconfigure my max resolution without shutting this one down`
`07:45.33`	`Guerin`	`yeah, igs as well`
`07:45.35`	`guestish`	`oh, right`
`07:45.38`	`*** join/#debian vivek (1000@219.64.133.19)`
`07:45.41`	`guestish`	`more bytes`
`07:45.41`	`novem`	`could anyone give me the name of a good streaming webcam app?`
`07:45.48`	`guestish`	`iso takes 1, utf takes 1-4`
`07:45.50`	`veruus`	`:\`
`07:45.51`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, my second xserver won't go higher than 1024x768 :/`
`07:45.52`	`mwilson`	`guestish: When a single on-screen character might be represented by up to six bytes, it's not smaller.`
`07:45.58`	`guestish`	`mwilson: yeah, i get it`
`07:46.03`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: In that case, want to try a match?`
`07:46.04`	`veruus`	`novem: no idear`
`07:46.07`	`xoz`	`novem: apt-cache search webcam`
`07:46.08`	`mwilson`	`novem: Obviously not.`
`07:46.10`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: /me is learning as well.`
`07:46.23`	`novem`	`xoz=tried every one ;o/`
`07:46.25`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: I fear my rep is on the line`
`07:46.30`	`Guerin`	`(not that I have one)`
`07:46.35`	`Guerin`	`but yeah, let's play`
`07:46.36`	`guestish`	`so utf-8 is good for multilingual people (unlike me) and iso-8859-* for everyone else :)`
`07:46.36`	`novem`	`camorama was okay, but i want a 1 second refresh rate`
`07:46.41`	`helpneeded2`	`[23:46] * Quits: Reno (Quit: "Never in the field of human conflict has...has... HEY LOOK A BUTTERFLY!!!" ~Winston Churchill with A.D.D)`
`07:46.41`	`peterS`	`guestish: there are different ways to encode unicode. ucs-2, for example, encodes every character as exactly 2 bytes. this allows most (but not quite all) of unicode, and retains the property of a character being a fixed width (16 bits)`
`07:46.52`	`peterS`	`guestish: utf-8 is different - characters take up variable space, and I think this makes it harder to code for`
`07:47.03`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack Oh, sorry, never tried it with resolution higher than that`
`07:47.21`	`guestish`	`peterS: mmk, ill just use iso-8859 then, always worked for me before :)`
`07:47.34`	`guestish`	`en_US.iso-8859-15`
`07:47.40`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i'm just wondering if i actually need to shut down this server before trying to get higher resolutions`
`07:47.54`	`sanxiyn`	`peterS: UTF-8 is a strange compromise.`
`07:47.59`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: I'll be in nngs.`
`07:48.02`	`sanxiyn`	`peterS: The prime reason being upward-compatible with ASCII.`
`07:48.09`	`peterS`	`guestish: well, apps are getting better. bugs are fixed over time. utf-8 has a lot of adoption, so new bugs won't be introduced as readily. it may be that apps aren't particularly buggy anymore`
`07:48.11`	`kevix`	`peterS, supposedly there are suppose to be functions that take that in to account.`
`07:48.17`	`peterS`	`sanxiyn: oh, I know all about utf-8`
`07:48.17`	`xoz`	`peterS: utf-8 is more space efficient but code inefficient?`
`07:48.28`	`guestish`	`peterS: well if i cant read it then i cant use it, so utf-8 really isnt much better for me`
`07:48.40`	`peterS`	`xoz: right. but, as sanxiyn says, it's backward-compatible code-wise in a different way`
`07:48.47`	`guestish`	`xoz: its less space efficent, but it lets you include all characters in 1 locale....`
`07:48.57`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack You mean the x server? I am not sure, but it seems to me, you can just restart it.`
`07:48.58`	`peterS`	`xoz: for example, utf-8 (unlike ucs-2 and ucs-4) never has any 0 bytes in it`
`07:49.00`	`kevix`	`guestish, utf-8 contains ASCII`
`07:49.02`	`guestish`	`wait, i thought the isos were smaller`
`07:49.05`	`peterS`	`xoz: this is important for C-style string handling`
`07:49.16`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, that's the point, i don't want to restart it`
`07:49.24`	`Guerin`	`the best thing about unicode is that two people with different languages can converse in it without their charsets being an issue`
`07:49.27`	`guestish`	`kevix: k`
`07:49.27`	`xoz`	`peterS: string terminator?`
`07:49.37`	`guestish`	`Guerin: as long as they understand each other`
`07:49.38`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: OK, what do I do after connecting? :)`
`07:49.48`	`Guerin`	`which is much more useful than it might sound, even for someone who's basically monolingual, like me`
`07:49.50`	`peterS`	`xoz: yes, it's used as a string terminator - but utf-8 does not use 0 bytes anywhere else. ucs-2, by contrast, does.`
`07:50.00`	`*** join/#debian rdancer (~r--t@host81-134-168-125.in-addr.btopenworld.com)`
`07:50.05`	`*** join/#debian b_52globemaster2 (b_52globem@adsl-239-47-192-81.adsl.iam.net.ma)`
`07:50.10`	`peterS`	`xoz: also, utf-8 never uses ASCII characters as components of non-ASCII characters. this is important for functions like 'printf' where certain characters like "%" have a special meaning`
`07:50.10`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: I'll start a game... black or white?`
`07:50.13`	`kevix`	`guestish, the first (255 characters of UTF-8 are the same as the ASCII codes)`
`07:50.17`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack You can restart it without shutting it down. As far as I know, that re reads the config files. If you dont want that, Im not sure what you want.`
`07:50.18`	`peterS`	`xoz: this is another way utf-8 is different from ucs-2`
`07:50.20`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: Black.`
`07:50.22`	`peterS`	`kevix: no`
`07:50.22`	`guestish`	`Guerin: dont you teach english in korea?`
`07:50.32`	`peterS`	`kevix: the first 127 characters of utf-8 are the same. 128 through 255 are not.`
`07:50.40`	`Guerin`	`guestish: I do`
`07:50.44`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: OK, so how do I connect to your game?`
`07:50.55`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, eh? how do i do that then?`
`07:50.56`	`guestish`	`Guerin: k, just checking`
`07:51.03`	`kevix`	`peterS, I wasnt sure if it was 255 or 127. my bad.`
`07:51.06`	`guestish`	`anyways im off to sleep, night all`
`07:51.20`	`peterS`	`later, gue�tish`
`07:51.28`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: you should get asked, I think. If not, hit "players" and click the O by my nick`
`07:51.46`	`xoz`	`peterS: it's just a matter of changing the assumption about strings to accomodate the other chars. it's a matter of adoption time, i guess.`
`07:51.47`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: Players is greyed out, as is the text box.`
`07:52.14`	`Guerin`	`hrm`
`07:52.15`	`peterS`	`xoz: indeed. the fact that GTK uses unicode internally now was a big step, I guess`
`07:52.27`	`Guerin`	`i've only used this once, I normally just get whupped by gnugo`
`07:52.48`	`kevix`	`peterS, it was one of the reasons I switch to gnome.`
`07:53.06`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack use dpkg-reconfigure to configure the x server. In fvwm its the last thing on the main menu (by default) and it says Exit fvwm and a sub item of that is "Restart"`
`07:53.21`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack but I guess that part depends on your window manager`
`07:53.28`	`veruus`	`pfft`
`07:53.31`	`veruus`	`gnome`
`07:53.34`	`xoz`	`peterS: good for us who are living in a different world who uses pictures to write messages :)`
`07:53.37`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: I tried logging in again, but still no luck.`
`07:53.44`	`Guerin`	`weird`
`07:53.44`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i would have thought that just restarts fvwm`
`07:53.46`	`peterS`	`xoz: for awhile I was in a bit of a utf-8 kick where I would write utf-8 <-> unicode convertors just for the fun of it`
`07:54.15`	`*** join/#debian Holborn (~holborn@237.Red-217-125-137.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`07:54.25`	`peterS`	`xoz: it's truly amazing how many different writing systems the world has. clearly, writing was more or less independently developed in quite a few places`
`07:54.25`	`kevix`	`peterS, iconv ?`
`07:54.32`	`peterS`	`kevix: no, hand-rolled`
`07:54.33`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: It's telling me what to type, but there's nowhere I can type it.`
`07:54.43`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, there's a restart option in fluxbox, which i use, which restarts fluxbox`
`07:54.44`	`peterS`	`kevix: it's a fun exercise, really. (:`
`07:54.51`	`*** join/#debian carrett (~project@69.110.230.187)`
`07:54.52`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: can't you start a game?`
`07:55.01`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack You might be right, but it seems to reload the configs. Did you already reconfigure x?`
`07:55.19`	`xoz`	`peterS: yep. one book argues that the kind of language you have limits your vocabulary/expression.`
`07:55.25`	`kevix`	`peterS, I just 'found' u2ps ...`
`07:55.29`	`*** part/#debian samrolken (~sam@68.212.246.173)`
`07:55.48`	`*** part/#debian manifestation836 (~monkey@SP1-24.207.210.190.charter-stl.com)`
`07:55.53`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i'm editing /etc/X11/XF86Config-4`
`07:56.03`	`peterS`	`xoz: that may be so, but I don't believe written language limits you in that way`
`07:56.19`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: No.`
`07:56.24`	`*** join/#debian zamolxes (~zamolxes@82.76.1.167)`
`07:56.28`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: /me will get you a screenshot.`
`07:56.30`	`peterS`	`xoz: i.e., choice of alphabet / pictogram set / whatever would not significantly affect thought processes, except that some systems are easier to learn than others, initially`
`07:56.32`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack I see. You didnt even try dpkg-reconfigure?`
`07:56.34`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: ok`
`07:56.35`	`carrett`	`hi, i'm on sid and i installed libapache2-mod-php4 and when i try acessing http://localhost/somefile.php?value=1 and it doesn't set value to 1...if i say print($value); it returns null....is there some config option that i have to change?`
`07:56.49`	`man_in_shack`	`hmm`
`07:56.53`	`*** join/#debian npx (~alex@ppp-66-73-158-1.dialup.evvlin.ameritech.net)`
`07:57.07`	`npx`	`God, why did I not know about sqlite sooner?`
`07:57.22`	`peterS`	`carrett: php safe mode is on by default. your usage expects it to be off`
`07:57.27`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: because you listened to the siren song of mysql...`
`07:57.28`	`jetscreamer`	`shape matters`
`07:57.31`	`xoz`	`peterS: i can see that the future will have a combination of different characters/words/pics .. the evolution of world's writing system.`
`07:57.36`	`npx`	`dondelelcaro: postgresql actually =(`
`07:57.37`	`peterS`	`carrett: that's in /etc/php4/apache2/php.ini or similar`
`07:57.50`	`*** join/#debian eye69 (magnus@ipv6.upcore.net)`
`07:57.51`	`carrett`	`peterS: thanks.`
`07:57.53`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: postgresql is actually quite nice... but for many things, sqlite is easier.`
`07:58.02`	`Guerin`	`fuck cgoban has a shitty ui`
`07:58.08`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: linuxlab.cs.pdx.edu/~tripletj/temp.png`
`07:58.08`	`xoz`	`peterS: smiley and many others are becoming standards in communication.`
`07:58.13`	`npx`	`dondelelcaro: yah I got the same impression`
`07:58.21`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: Well, the initial interface sucks; the go board is nice. :)`
`07:58.28`	`peterS`	`carrett: but think twice before turning safe mode off. it exists for a reason. you might just learn to code in safe mode, which means using magic hashes for accessing variables from specific sources like CGI GET`
`07:58.31`	`xoz`	`peterS: we will have more... chinese characters might be in the future.`
`07:58.34`	`*** join/#debian Rakeleer (fiwgalt@pcp09771375pcs.albqrq01.nm.comcast.net)`
`07:58.38`	`jetscreamer`	`postgres is big in erp`
`07:58.39`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: yeah`
`07:58.53`	`jetscreamer`	`see compiere`
`07:58.56`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: the ERP is dead, long live the CRM. (:`
`07:58.57`	`jetscreamer`	`!compiere`
`07:59.01`	`npx`	`I just need basic table functionality and a python module`
`07:59.05`	`jetscreamer`	`erp, crm`
`07:59.18`	`xoz`	`are`
`07:59.22`	`jetscreamer`	`yes very advanced`
`07:59.26`	`Rakeleer`	`I'm running sid, recently did a dist-upgrade, and now my alsa sound drivers seem broken. I've made sure the oss versions are in hotplug's blacklist, and the module seems to load properly, but I get a "no soundcards" error when starting Alsa.... WTF? :)`
`07:59.30`	`zignig`	`xos: data type == polygon ; YAY!`
`07:59.32`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, ok, i dpkg-reconfigured it, but /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 is still the same :\|`
`07:59.35`	`jetscreamer`	`!info compiere`
`07:59.41`	`jetscreamer`	`why isn't that packaged`
`07:59.42`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: Any clue?`
`07:59.43`	`dondelelcaro`	`xoz: yeah... once you've gotten used to some of them, there's no way you're going back...`
`07:59.49`	`peterS`	`xoz: now that we have SQLite, I wonder if mysql serves much purpose at all. SQLite if you need something small / simple, postgres if you need a real database`
`07:59.57`	`jetscreamer`	`maybe license`
`08:00.13`	`npx`	`Am I the only one who thinks that mysql/postgresql are overly complicated to configure?`
`08:00.15`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: http://bugs.debian.org/wnpp probably knows`
`08:00.23`	`jetscreamer`	`is sqlite networkable?`
`08:00.26`	`zignig`	`peterS: once _real_ replication is in standard postgres it will be great.`
`08:00.29`	`kevix`	`man_in_shack, if you edit that file, the dpkg-reconfigure will not work until you do some magic.`
`08:00.32`	`zamolxes`	`how stable is 2.6 on woody? i read the stuff on http://www.fs.tum.de/~bunk/packages/woody/kernel-26.html , and it's not very optimistic.`
`08:00.41`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: /me still can't figure out how to accept your offer.`
`08:00.43`	`xoz`	`dondelelcaro: nods. it really implemented the ideal sql language.`
`08:00.45`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack so did it not have the resolution you wanted as a choice, or was the choice there, but it just did nothing?`
`08:00.45`	`zamolxes`	`i really need it for the new v4l2...`
`08:00.46`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: dunno... aptitude install postgresql; is pretty straight forward`
`08:00.53`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: hmm, not sure. you can share a sqlite file across NFS, I'm sure, but I don't know if the file locking might interact badly`
`08:01.07`	`zignig`	`peterS: NFS , bleh!`
`08:01.11`	`*** join/#debian voidz0r_ (~voidz0r@i115202.upc-i.chello.nl)`
`08:01.15`	`peterS`	`zignig: better than gmailfs`
`08:01.20`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: i dunno, the only other time I've played like this I initiated the game and the other person Just Worked`
`08:01.22`	`npx`	`dondelelcaro: i primarily had trouble with the authentication model`
`08:01.29`	`jetscreamer`	`might still be a use for mysql for a while at least`
`08:01.47`	`xoz`	`peterS: i can save lots of coding and debugging using postgres than mysql`
`08:01.55`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: if you're accessing the database across the network I'd definitely jump straight to postgres`
`08:01.58`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: the authentication module for postgresql is actually pretty simple, assuming you're connecting to the database using the socket and are the appropriate uid`
`08:02.02`	`*** join/#debian jonesy (~andrew@CPE-61-9-202-228.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`08:02.19`	`*** join/#debian man_in_shack (~btk@203.48.248.162)`
`08:02.23`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: otherwise it's moderately more complex, and involves setting up /etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf properly.`
`08:02.26`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: but then, I don't see the point of using mysql even locally - it's not like postgresql has any disadvantages that I can think of, in comparison`
`08:02.33`	`zamolxes`	`really, can you spare some advice on using 2.6 on woody? . thanks`
`08:02.37`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack try man startx`
`08:02.45`	`peterS`	`zamolxes: /msg dpkg bunk 2.6`
`08:03.03`	`jetscreamer`	`widespread support`
`08:03.03`	`zignig`	`peterS: uh-huh ;)`
`08:03.07`	`kevix`	`*`
`08:03.15`	`Rakeleer`	`zamolxes: What is it you want to know? I have a bunch of smp machines running woody w/2.6 and they aren't having any problems.`
`08:03.18`	`jetscreamer`	`i'm not pro or con either way`
`08:03.27`	`zamolxes`	`peterS: i read bunk's howto, it's not very optimistic. lots 'is in alpha state' affirmations`
`08:03.29`	`dondelelcaro`	`zamolxes: install module-init-tools from a backport, then install a 2.6 kernel`
`08:03.30`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: what does that mean? support from what? third-party php scripts?`
`08:03.31`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i assume dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 is supposed to reconfigure /etc/X11/XF86Config-4`
`08:03.32`	`npx`	`dondelelcaro: nods I wouldn't have any trouble doing it again, it just took me a bit to grok it. I don't understand why they don't allow you to just use your unix login =)`
`08:03.32`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: /me is installing qgo. :)`
`08:03.35`	`*** join/#debian \|XO\| (XOXOXO@ool-4355d5ca.dyn.optonline.net)`
`08:03.39`	`zamolxes`	`Rakeleer: nice`
`08:03.40`	`zignig`	`jetscreamer: would that make you pron ?`
`08:03.43`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: postgresql does, actually.`
`08:03.43`	`zamolxes`	`dondelelcaro: ok then, thanks`
`08:03.48`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack the normal display is :0.0`
`08:03.57`	`jetscreamer`	`well a lot of things i've checked out talk about ppostgres support in the future, or not`
`08:04.09`	`npx`	`(again)`
`08:04.15`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack Its not something I run often but as I remember it asks you`
`08:04.27`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: ahh. I don't use third-party php apps, so that's not a consideration for me`
`08:04.59`	`peterS`	`jetscreamer: at least, not third-party php apps that need a database`
`08:05.01`	`Guerin`	`jetscreamer: fair enough :)`
`08:05.04`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, well i've tried editing the file, that didn't seem to do anything`
`08:05.30`	`*** join/#debian Lorvija (~lorvija@dsl-lprgw1i98.dial.inet.fi)`
`08:05.36`	`npx`	`I <3 python DB-API`
`08:05.42`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i tried running dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86, and that doesn't write to /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 either`
`08:06.11`	`xoz`	`it's amazing why mysql became so popular in spite of postgres beating it in all aspects, imo. i guess, it's because of the company campaigning for it.`
`08:06.13`	`mwilson`	`It does if you actually follow the instructions.`
`08:06.17`	`kevix`	`man_in_shack, read the top of the xf86config-4 file to be able to use dpkg-reconfigure.`
`08:06.18`	`jetscreamer`	`autocomplete behavior changed, how do you make it go back`
`08:06.35`	`jetscreamer`	`kevix it's the 16th line`
`08:06.38`	`man_in_shack`	`kevix, rich_ told me to do it :/`
`08:06.39`	`Rakeleer`	`xoz: How's postgres, cross-platform?`
`08:06.57`	`jetscreamer`	`or 16-19 or something`
`08:07.13`	`peterS`	`Rakeleer: postgresql supports most unixes and winnt`
`08:07.16`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack Thats strangem but if you want to start another xserver read man startx , there is a way to specify the display and it cant be the same as your old display which is already running. It should tell you that, if you rtry it`
`08:07.35`	`xoz`	`Rakeleer: explain what you mean.`
`08:07.42`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, I'M WELL PAST THAT STAGE`
`08:07.46`	`herbi`	`peterS, but if i put netbsd on a toaster will there be a postgresql-toaster version for me?`
`08:07.47`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack and it's hard to predict which empty vc it will be on`
`08:07.49`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, otherwise i wouldn't know there's a problem`
`08:07.56`	`peterS`	`Rakeleer: it even knew how to make shared libraries on my AIX box a few years ago, without using libtool. I was very impressed. (:`
`08:07.57`	`*** join/#debian deadshell (~deadshell@ool-44c44e58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`08:08.02`	`herbi`	`peterS, thats my main concern`
`08:08.03`	`Rakeleer`	`xoz: How many platforms have servers/clients for postgres?`
`08:08.11`	`Rakeleer`	`peterS: That's cool.`
`08:08.19`	`man_in_shack`	`kevix, i don't see anything there that'll help[`
`08:08.19`	`peterS`	`herbi: hmmm, depends. some toasters don't have enough RAM to run a DBMS. it would swap a lot`
`08:08.19`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack The problem I saw was you want to run two x servers at once. Why wont the second one start?`
`08:08.26`	`deadshell`	`hi ya freaks`
`08:08.29`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, the second one DOES start`
`08:08.47`	`Guerin`	`JoshTriplett: haha: $ qgo`
`08:08.47`	`Guerin`	`Segmentation fault`
`08:08.47`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i'm trying to configure the resolution on it without restarting the one i'm using no`
`08:08.49`	`peterS`	`Rakeleer: you won't appreciate why I was impressed unless you know how quirky the shared library build procedure is on AIX. (:`
`08:08.50`	`man_in_shack`	`*now`
`08:08.55`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack then why dont you tell me what the problem is?`
`08:09.18`	`peterS`	`Rakeleer: anyway, based on that experience, I'd say the postgres team takes portability quite seriously (:`
`08:09.21`	`jetscreamer`	`!now`
`08:09.21`	`dpkg`	`methinks now is network of workstations,see progeny`
`08:09.29`	`xoz`	`Rakeleer: well, if you like platform more than saner coding and quality, go for mysql. it supports many platforms but for a price... tradeoffs?`
`08:09.34`	`kevix`	`man_in_shack, I can paste it in #flood`
`08:09.39`	`npx`	`I find the comments in the startx script sorta funny =)`
`08:09.44`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i'm trying to add resolutions, but the second server doesn't go beyond 1024x768`
`08:09.49`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack oh, you have two xservers running, and you dont want to kill either, but you want to reconfigure one?`
`08:09.55`	`man_in_shack`	`kevix, i'm there`
`08:10.05`	`npx`	`rich_: Have you specified incorrect horizsync/vertrefresh params?`
`08:10.12`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, no, i have 2 xservers, one for everything the other for killing`
`08:10.15`	`deadshell`	`dpkg how hath your curcuits been`
`08:10.16`	`dpkg`	`deadshell: I give up, what is it?`
`08:10.21`	`veruus`	`that's always fun`
`08:10.21`	`Rakeleer`	`xoz: I've never had a need for anything better than Mysql. I never liked postgres enough to try switching.`
`08:10.22`	`deadshell`	`lol`
`08:10.34`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack well then kill the one you want to change and restart it`
`08:10.50`	`rich_`	`with the new config`
`08:10.50`	`xoz`	`Rakeleer: i tried both... they are mercury and pluto apart.`
`08:10.53`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, that's what i've been doing`
`08:10.54`	`jetscreamer`	`i installed oracle once, before i ever had a clue about db's`
`08:10.58`	`jetscreamer`	`oops`
`08:10.58`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, doesn't do anything`
`08:11.03`	`npx`	`jetscreamer: =)`
`08:11.07`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, stays at 1024x768`
`08:11.20`	`Rakeleer`	`xoz: I didn't say I never tried postgres, just didn't like it enough to switch.`
`08:11.45`	`mwilson`	`Doesn't psql still require vacuumdb?`
`08:12.09`	`mwilson`	`I never coudl figure that out... the thing isn't smart enough to recover space on its own?`
`08:12.26`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack I see. Well since Ive never tried it with resolutions higher than that, I dont know for sure that it can be done. Which brings me back to an earlier question, when you used dpkg-reconfigure , did it have the resolution you wanted?`
`08:12.37`	`*** join/#debian HSorgYves (admin@ppp-124-221.adsl.restena.lu)`
`08:12.47`	`Rakeleer`	`xoz: And when I started messing with dbs, postgres was hardly stable, wheras mysql was already up-and-coming, so now, with the invenstment in Mysql,I would need serious motivation to bother.`
`08:13.15`	`npx`	`Rakeleer: sqlite does everything that mysql/postgresql were doing for me and is 250kb =)`
`08:13.31`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i don't know what resolutions i want :\|`
`08:13.32`	`Rakeleer`	`npx: Network access by clients?`
`08:13.38`	`mwilson`	`sqlite is just a library.`
`08:13.42`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, and the fscking thing's still not writing the file`
`08:13.45`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack yes, that would make it harder.`
`08:13.47`	`kevix`	`npx, the beauty of free software --- choices!`
`08:13.51`	`Rakeleer`	`hell yeah`
`08:13.55`	`npx`	`Rakeleer: Don't need it`
`08:14.02`	`Rakeleer`	`npx: I do. :)`
`08:14.03`	`mwilson`	`There's no command-line client for sqlite.`
`08:14.11`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i want to find out what my monitor can handle`
`08:14.13`	`*** join/#debian clusty (~clusty@deimos.iu-bremen.de)`
`08:14.23`	`Rakeleer`	`npx: If I want a local only database, there are dearths of options.`
`08:14.27`	`npx`	`mwilson: sure there is`
`08:14.29`	`Rakeleer`	`-a`
`08:14.31`	`mwilson`	`man_in_shack: Then refer to its specification sheet.`
`08:14.33`	`clusty`	`how can I apply a command to all files in one folder?`
`08:14.37`	`rich_`	`man then check all the choices.`
`08:14.49`	`man_in_shack`	`mwilson, i don't have one`
`08:14.52`	`mwilson`	`npx: Oh? Do tell. I use nosql for things like that at the moment.`
`08:14.55`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, you don't get it`
`08:15.06`	`Rakeleer`	`clusty: find . -exec <command> {} \;`
`08:15.06`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, IT'S NOT WRITING TO THE FILE`
`08:15.08`	`mwilson`	`man_in_shack: And the company that manufactured the monitor has evaporated?`
`08:15.10`	`xoz`	`Rakeleer: oh well... you made your decision and i respect that.`
`08:15.15`	`Rakeleer`	`clusty: have backups. ;)`
`08:15.25`	`npx`	`mwilson: the 'sqlite' executable comes with sqlite, usage is outlined on the site and in the manpage`
`08:15.28`	`mwilson`	`npx: Wouldn't mind using sqlite, for sure. :)`
`08:15.31`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack I mean, i think it gives you three choices about how to specifi the monitor resoltion, try them`
`08:15.34`	`clusty`	`Rakeleer, thanx`
`08:15.50`	`*** part/#debian lsmith (~lsmith@ip68-12-103-27.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`08:16.08`	`clusty`	`Rakeleer, there was a way with using xargs, but I do not undestarnd the man file for it`
`08:16.21`	`stew`	`clusty: for a in * ; do command "$a" ; done`
`08:16.32`	`Rakeleer`	`clusty: the find trick is essentially xargs.`
`08:16.34`	`stew`	`clusty: find /dir -type f -print0 \| xargs -0 command`
`08:16.40`	`Rakeleer`	`see :)`
`08:16.46`	`Rakeleer`	`and there's a thousand other ways.`
`08:16.53`	`clusty`	`thanx a lot`
`08:16.56`	`Rakeleer`	`whip out python/perl scripts, too.`
`08:17.03`	`npx`	`Hell, use C!`
`08:17.11`	`*** join/#debian Area-51 (~spock@wbar14.chi1-4.29.101.190.chi1.dsl-verizon.net)`
`08:17.15`	`man_in_shack`	`mwilson, no, the company that made it is ibm`
`08:17.16`	`man_in_shack`	`mwilson, but they don't have anything on their site about this model`
`08:17.22`	`stew`	`clusty: Rakeleer's way executes commnad n times, the xargs way execites command with n arguments`
`08:17.22`	`man_in_shack`	`mwilson, and i haven't been able to find anything about it on google either`
`08:17.28`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, what good will that do if the fscking dpkg-reconfigure DOESN'T CHANGE THE FILE ON DISK?`
`08:17.35`	`Area-51`	`after i export the distcc_hosts, to compile with distcc is it "make all CC=DISTCC" ?`
`08:17.50`	`*** join/#debian dewey (~dewey@c-67-168-51-181.client.comcast.net)`
`08:17.56`	`Rakeleer`	`stew: Which means xargs can bork if your command is too long, i.e. too many arguments.`
`08:18.06`	`xoz`	`stew: but it will still involve a loop in executing those arguments.`
`08:18.11`	`stew`	`Rakeleer: no, then xargs splits it into multiple commands`
`08:18.15`	`stoned`	`i hope this doesn' cause arguments, i was wondering how slackware compares to debian`
`08:18.29`	`stew`	`xoz?`
`08:18.29`	`stoned`	`any unbiased pros/cons`
`08:18.44`	`stew`	`Nyle: troll elsewhere`
`08:18.52`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i got it .. at least half way`
`08:18.52`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, running dexconf changed the file`
`08:18.53`	`npx`	`stoned, <3 the BSD init, hate the (lack of) package management.`
`08:18.55`	`kevix`	`stoned, very, very, very minimal package management , less pkgs than debian.`
`08:19.10`	`dondelelcaro`	`heh. less packages than Debian is pretty much the state of all distributions`
`08:19.14`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack So your saying you wont try it, because you cant see the changes in the config file? What if your right? Your telling me your disk is broken, or your file is broken? Am I supposed to just guess why you cant change a file? copy it to somewhere else, and see if that helps, because perhaps you changed its permissions.`
`08:19.17`	`stoned`	`ahh`
`08:19.22`	`stoned`	`i see`
`08:19.23`	`mwilson`	`You know, you read the sqlite page, and look at the description of the code space it occupies, and you wonder why in the world psql/msql are so g-damn BIG.`
`08:19.51`	`*** join/#debian Wufu (~Wufu@181.red-62-57-18.user.auna.net)`
`08:20.03`	`npx`	`mwilson: I know!`
`08:20.09`	`*** join/#debian deusex (~jon_dow@p54800C75.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:20.11`	`cafuego`	`mwilson: Coz small software sucks. Even MS knows that.`
`08:20.16`	`stoned`	`stew, how was that trolling?`
`08:20.27`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, look, dpkg-reconfigure didn't write the file like it was supposed to`
`08:20.31`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, so there's no point in testing the other options`
`08:20.36`	`*** part/#debian deusex (~jon_dow@p54800C75.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:20.37`	`npx`	`stoned, if you're a diehard BSD init guy you can get something similar to it in Debian with file-rc`
`08:20.48`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: dpkg-reconfigure will not write to the configuration file if you've modified it.`
`08:20.51`	`stoned`	`im not anything, I was just wondering`
`08:20.54`	`Rakeleer`	`anyone else have trouble with alsa/udev in latest updates in sid?`
`08:20.55`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack it probably is because in your fiddleing with the file you changed its permissions.`
`08:20.57`	`*** join/#debian Jussi (~Jussi@port190.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`08:21.02`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: administrator configuration changes are sancrosant.`
`08:21.08`	`kevix`	`stoned, some folks like it cause it can eailsy make server, assuming you know exactly waht to do and what you want.`
`08:21.19`	`*** join/#debian zomtec (~zomtec@p508110CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`08:21.22`	`npx`	`stoned, If you're not not interested in trying out a lot of new packages (you know exactly what you want a system to be doing) slackware works just as well as anything else.`
`08:21.22`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack dondelelcaro figured it out`
`08:21.32`	`npx`	`If you do like to try new stuff out a lot, nothing really compares to debian imo`
`08:21.32`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack so copy the file to somewhere else`
`08:21.33`	`*** join/#debian athmo (goofy@p50926309.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:21.35`	`*** join/#debian JoshTriplett (~josh@joshtriplett.user)`
`08:21.43`	`JoshTriplett`	`Guerin: OK, try starting a game.`
`08:21.48`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack I mean move it somewhere else`
`08:21.56`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: if you're dealing with X, /msg dpkg set up x; or /msg dpkg x md5sum;`
`08:22.12`	`npx`	`xoz, word to that. You still get to use update-rc.d too!`
`08:22.17`	`*** join/#debian cahoot (~radix@h137n3fls31o952.telia.com)`
`08:22.29`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, i'm on the virge of iggying you. how dumb do you think i am?`
`08:22.29`	`*** join/#debian Function (~Function@84.119.172.219)`
`08:22.39`	`Rakeleer`	`I'd like to freaking uninstall udev, but apparently gnome requires it now.`
`08:22.40`	`Rakeleer`	`BAH`
`08:22.45`	`npx`	`man_in_shack: dumb enough to misspell verge?`
`08:22.55`	`dondelelcaro`	`Rakeleer: it shouldn't...`
`08:22.58`	`kevix`	`Rakeleer, and HAL !`
`08:23.00`	`xoz`	`npx: nope. i just edit /etc/runlevel.conf`
`08:23.16`	`man_in_shack`	`npx, whatever`
`08:23.25`	`*** join/#debian wiss (~wiss@194.146.153.19)`
`08:23.27`	`stoned`	`well so far I have used bsd in highschool and i don't remember much, and i have used on the linux side redhat 9, no mp3 support so that sucked, i tried a few more random ones, then i tried some knoppix variants, and learned how how they were debian based, and then using apt i wondered why use a debian based os and not just debian it self and here I am, I was reading online an article on how awesome slackware was and I just wanted to knwo what`
`08:23.27`	`stoned`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:23.29`	`npx`	`xoz, yah, but when you install a new package it can still be added to runlevel.conf automagically`
`08:23.29`	`xoz`	`npx: or just copy my backup everytime it's changed during apt-get upgrade`
`08:23.38`	`stoned`	`I WASNT fucking trolling`
`08:23.39`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack just barely dumd enough to try to edit your own xconfig. I hope. But anyway, moveing it or deleting it, then useing dpkg-reconfigure should help`
`08:23.48`	`Rakeleer`	`dondelelcaro: I agree. But it still does.`
`08:23.51`	`mwilson`	`Rakeleer: Yes, gnome vfs requires udev and hal both. Two excellent reasons not to use Gnome.`
`08:23.51`	`xoz`	`npx: so, it is really simple.`
`08:23.55`	`npx`	`stoned, chill, take a bong hit`
`08:23.57`	`peterS`	`rich_: you'd be surprised`
`08:24.07`	`Rakeleer`	`mwilson: I predict gnome is coming off my drive real soon now.`
`08:24.17`	`mwilson`	`npx: I didn't know it came with the command-line client... I dunno why.`
`08:24.26`	`npx`	`mwilson: It may not have last you checked`
`08:24.36`	`Rakeleer`	`mwilson: since udev appears to be broken.`
`08:24.37`	`dondelelcaro`	`hrm... I may be blind, but apt-cache rdepends udev; isn't showing gnome anything`
`08:24.38`	`rich_`	`peterS Its not a big mistake, I can see it happenning to me`
`08:25.07`	`rich_`	`I would have had to ask dondelelcaro for the reason why if it had happenned to me :)`
`08:25.13`	`*** join/#debian Glenn^BF (~Glenn@21-71.CampusNet.ucl.ac.be)`
`08:25.15`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: I forget the chain... the vfs wants hal and that wants udev, I think.`
`08:25.16`	`peterS`	`rich_: missing /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file is interpreted as "do not touch this situation". I don't like it but that's how it works`
`08:25.29`	`*** join/#debian ravenbird (ravenbird@smtp.nuit.ca)`
`08:25.45`	`Rakeleer`	`All i know is, apt-get remove udev; gnome-desktop-environment will be uninstalled.`
`08:25.46`	`npx`	`peterS, isn't there a way to override that (touch /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 ?)`
`08:25.50`	`mwilson`	`dondelelcaro: Since udev isn't allowed on any box I control, it's not like I've directly experienced it.`
`08:26.01`	`dondelelcaro`	`mwilson: yeah, it's the stupid gnome-volume-manager or whatever the hell...`
`08:26.03`	`Rakeleer`	`mwilson: I can see why. Flashbacks of devfs.`
`08:26.04`	`rich_`	`peterS Oh, so it needs to be done with dpkg ? Ok I'll read the dpkg man page`
`08:26.09`	`JoshTriplett`	`mwilson: Any particular reason?`
`08:26.10`	`npx`	`I've got mixed feelings about udev`
`08:26.15`	`peterS`	`npx: XF86Config-4 includes kludgy instructions for updating the mechanism that detects whether the file has been manually edited`
`08:26.23`	`*** join/#debian hawk (~hawk31@dt014n31.san.rr.com)`
`08:26.33`	`dondelelcaro`	`!x md5`
`08:26.33`	`dpkg`	`If you hand-edit your X configuration file, "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86" will no longer work, which is bad. To see if this is the case, "md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 \| diff -sq /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum -" - if the files differ, then it won't work. To fix this, "md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum" as root, then "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86", losing any manual changes you've made.`
`08:26.34`	`npx`	`peterS, ahh - the comments, eh?`
`08:26.37`	`mwilson`	`JoshTriplett: I'm not interested in the my-dev-is-emptier-than-yours disk-waving contest, and it IMHO has no other use.`
`08:26.44`	`*** join/#debian Guerin (~magpie@220.123.169.70)`
`08:26.45`	`cafuego`	`Never had any in the past either`
`08:26.45`	`peterS`	`npx: yes, read 'em (:`
`08:26.48`	`mwilson`	`s/disk/dick`
`08:27.01`	`jetscreamer`	`it's frickin line 16`
`08:27.11`	`npx`	`mwilson: unterminated dick command`
`08:27.19`	`jetscreamer`	`i can't believe ppl edit their conf and don't read the top lines!`
`08:27.25`	`JoshTriplett`	`mwilson: Well, there's the ability to have /dev/usbdrive be your usbdrive, regardless of whether it is /dev/sda1 or /dev/sda5`
`08:27.33`	`npx`	`jetscreamer: me neither! =)`
`08:27.37`	`stoned`	`i use gnome and it kicks bungholes`
`08:27.44`	`npx`	`But eh, I use xorg`
`08:27.52`	`*** join/#debian Jazza (Jazza@CWPP-p-144-134-229-221.prem.tmns.net.au)`
`08:27.55`	`npx`	`stoned, tried KDE 3.3.x?`
`08:27.59`	`mwilson`	`JoshTriplett: Why would it move around? I only have one.`
`08:28.05`	`jetscreamer`	`i hate rtfm and reading manuals and shit`
`08:28.10`	`stoned`	`kde i dislike n stuff`
`08:28.10`	`Rakeleer`	`it's bungholes is getting tossed of my machine. I can live with udev madness, but I won't live without sound on my dekstop.`
`08:28.18`	`jetscreamer`	`errr s/manuals/man/`
`08:28.27`	`jetscreamer`	`djfkld manpages`
`08:28.29`	`*** join/#debian Virus (~PELin__@62.217.141.141)`
`08:28.31`	`zamolxes`	`peterS: i wonder why i need an update grep for 2.6 . i can understand the other backported packages, they probably do lots of 2.6 specific syscalls , but grep?`
`08:28.36`	`*** join/#debian Sarvok (~chatzilla@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-38-73.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`08:28.38`	`stoned`	`Rakeleer, sometimes it can cause problems, but nothing you can't fix`
`08:28.39`	`JoshTriplett`	`mwilson: Suppose you didn't; suppose you had a camera and a USB drive, or two different printers, and didn't want the device names to change based on ordering of detection?`
`08:28.39`	`peterS`	`speaking of x.org, I understand naming a web site after an application. hence www.xfree86.org or www.mutt.org. but wtf is up with naming an application after a web site?`
`08:28.54`	`dondelelcaro`	`peterS: see OO.org`
`08:29.02`	`peterS`	`dondelelcaro: oo.org is even worse than x.org`
`08:29.03`	`mwilson`	`JoshTriplett: But I don't. Note my above comment.`
`08:29.12`	`stoned`	`i hate that .org bs infront of openoffice`
`08:29.13`	`Rakeleer`	`stoned: So far, no one can fix this busted alsa udev thing. I spent an hour pouring through the newsgroups and google and came up with nothing useful.`
`08:29.14`	`peterS`	`dondelelcaro: microsoft.net is the only other example I can think of (:`
`08:29.16`	`cafuego`	`peterS: the ".org" emphasises the community behind the application.`
`08:29.17`	`stoned`	`isn't openoffice just enough`
`08:29.38`	`JoshTriplett`	`mwilson: Granted; I'm just pointing out it has more uses than just making /dev emptier.`
`08:29.50`	`dondelelcaro`	`stoned: the oo trademark is owned by sun or something... so they had to append the .org moniker.`
`08:29.51`	`xoz`	`peterS: that's what you call, naming dimentia disease`
`08:29.52`	`jetscreamer`	`lose udev comes to mind`
`08:29.57`	`npx`	`But...c'mon, a near-empty /dev is sorta cool =)`
`08:29.58`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack the dpkg man page has several options that might get the configs back, I dont know which wiould work, but I think dpkg -x if nothing else would allow you to extract just that one file.`
`08:30.03`	`mwilson`	`JoshTriplett: Perhaps, but that's the one the drooling morons usually promote.`
`08:30.23`	`peterS`	`rich_: you might think so, but XF86Config-4 is a generated file. it won't be in the .deb`
`08:30.29`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, ok, drop it or you die`
`08:30.48`	`stoned`	`dondelelcaro, whatever the reason maybe, its still pretty homo`
`08:30.52`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: if you have a problem, just /ignore people.`
`08:30.54`	`jetscreamer`	`there's a conf maker in the dir`
`08:31.03`	`jetscreamer`	`xf86config?`
`08:31.05`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, that's what i'm talking about`
`08:31.10`	`*** join/#debian snow (~sniegas@sniegas.lt)`
`08:31.10`	`*** join/#debian simonrvn (simon@simonrvn.user)`
`08:31.11`	`npx`	`X -configure actually works pretty well`
`08:31.14`	`mwilson`	`JoshTriplett: It's also the one the Debian maintainer promotes.`
`08:31.33`	`snow`	`hello, how to forbid access to irc for a concrete user on openbsd 3.5 ?`
`08:31.35`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: but considering that you've already been told about 8 times what you need to do, you might as well just take care of it so we can move on.`
`08:31.38`	`jetscreamer`	`heh`
`08:31.50`	`jetscreamer`	`snow chmod the file`
`08:31.58`	`*** join/#debian deadshell_ (~deadshell@ool-44c44e58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`08:31.58`	`jetscreamer`	`file/app`
`08:32.03`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack so you wont use dpkg-reconfigure and you wont read the dpkg man page, and you wont kill x... its a pretty tough problem with a lot of arbitrary boundaries. I hope you find someone with better ideas`
`08:32.04`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, i've already tried all of that, and it doesn't help`
`08:32.13`	`snow`	`jetscreamer: or maybe something with ipfw ?`
`08:32.18`	`*** part/#debian deadshell_ (~deadshell@ool-44c44e58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`08:32.31`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: obviously not. If you set the md5sum correctly, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 will ask you the questions and allow you to modify the configuration file.`
`08:32.34`	`jetscreamer`	`snow, so i heard, i was able to be lazy and just globally deny`
`08:32.49`	`jetscreamer`	`but you could lmake an irc group or something`
`08:32.51`	`Rakeleer`	`hurmmm..... cat /dev/null > dd if=/dev/hda?`
`08:32.51`	`man_in_shack`	`rich_, look, i RAN dpkg-reconfigure and it didn't write to the config file`
`08:32.52`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, but it didn't. i tried that`
`08:32.54`	`peterS`	`snow: preventing users from running classes of applications, which they might download, is pretty OS-specific`
`08:32.58`	`mwilson`	`JoshTriplett: Finally, udev is in no way required to do what you describe.`
`08:32.59`	`*** join/#debian stoned (ajavid@ip70-177-44-248.br.br.cox.net)`
`08:33.02`	`peterS`	`snow: and we don't know OpenBSD around here, so...`
`08:33.04`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: are the md5sum's identical yet?`
`08:33.10`	`mwilson`	`JoshTriplett: hotplug is more than capable of it.`
`08:33.11`	`npx`	`snow, #OpenBSD ?`
`08:33.12`	`jetscreamer`	`man_in_shack, did you do the md5sum thing?`
`08:33.20`	`zignig`	`peterS: no-exec on /home is a good start`
`08:33.22`	`snow`	`npx: they donnot know, or won't tell`
`08:33.32`	`mwilson`	`noexec is silly`
`08:33.38`	`peterS`	`zignig: yes but he's asking about openbsd. how should I know how to enable noexec on /home on openbsd?`
`08:33.47`	`man_in_shack`	`jetscreamer, dondelelcaro, i ran the command that was posted in #flood`
`08:33.48`	`dondelelcaro`	`noexec is stupid`
`08:33.49`	`npx`	`noexec/nosuid in /tmp on servers ain't`
`08:33.51`	`*** join/#debian tompa (thomas@b506.vildanden.afb.lu.se)`
`08:33.54`	`*** join/#debian majestix (majestix@pD9E115E6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:34.01`	`zignig`	`peterS: dunno. :P`
`08:34.02`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: sure it is.`
`08:34.09`	`zignig`	`dondelelcaro: why ?`
`08:34.14`	`npx`	`how so? that's enough to stop the majority of rootkits`
`08:34.20`	`peterS`	`npx: nosuid makes little sense except for removable media. how are users supposed to create setuid executables in the first place?`
`08:34.31`	`npx`	`peterS, local exploits.`
`08:34.32`	`dondelelcaro`	`/lib/ld-linux.so.2 /tmp/foorootkit`
`08:34.37`	`Sarvok`	`hello all`
`08:34.45`	`Sarvok`	`i've a really big problem with my keyboard`
`08:34.45`	`dondelelcaro`	`oh no!`
`08:34.45`	`peterS`	`npx: and why would this local exploit not just reenable suid in the affected location?`
`08:34.49`	`jetscreamer`	`man_in_shack, so is that the exact same command that's on line 16-17(or so) of XF86Config-4?`
`08:34.51`	`Sarvok`	`anyone can help me ?`
`08:35.03`	`Sarvok`	`I told you what's wrong :`
`08:35.05`	`jetscreamer`	`!tell Sarvok about ask`
`08:35.08`	`peterS`	`dondelelcaro: heh`
`08:35.09`	`man_in_shack`	`jetscreamer, obviously i changed it to make sense on my system`
`08:35.11`	`takatumi`	`man_in_shack: tried dexconf?`
`08:35.12`	`npx`	`peterS, because it wouldn't be able to run out of /tmp =)`
`08:35.34`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: what does this output? 'md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 \| diff -sq /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum -'`
`08:35.34`	`man_in_shack`	`takatumi, yeah, that gave me a brand spanking new config file`
`08:35.36`	`peterS`	`npx: how did this theoretical exploit get into /tmp in the first place?`
`08:35.38`	`kevix`	`Sarvok, you dont 'ask to ask a question' you just ask it!`
`08:35.41`	`Sarvok`	`i'm French so i have a AZERTY keyboard ..... when i'm in shell that's right`
`08:35.43`	`npx`	`peterS: bind8 got exploited`
`08:35.47`	`*** part/#debian etanh (~nado@250.169-182-adsl-pool.axelero.hu)`
`08:35.48`	`man_in_shack`	`takatumi, but the second server still doesn't go higher than 1024x768`
`08:35.56`	`npx`	`(hypothetically)`
`08:36.02`	`peterS`	`npx: why did the bind8 exploit writer not just do their business in the exploit itself?`
`08:36.06`	`*** join/#debian lgd (~lgd_@host26-245.pool80180.interbusiness.it)`
`08:36.08`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, interesting ...`
`08:36.30`	`Sarvok`	`nonetheless, when i'm in GNOME, i can't write the letter "/" i have always ":" ....`
`08:36.32`	`npx`	`Let's say that the remote exploit dropped you to a shell with the privs of the bind user`
`08:36.41`	`yhg`	`argh, can anyone tell me the proper way to add a device for an internal IDE zip drive on a system using udev? I can't find any good information on it.`
`08:36.45`	`Sarvok`	`theoratically => "/" = SHIFT + ":"`
`08:36.47`	`peterS`	`npx: ok...`
`08:37.09`	`npx`	`And, for the sake of argument, that the script kid who ran it decided to upload some files to /tmp and execute them`
`08:37.17`	`jetscreamer`	`hey what's - at the end of that, dondelelcaro`
`08:37.18`	`peterS`	`npx: so with my shell I can create an executable in /tmp which is setuid bind8`
`08:37.21`	`*** join/#debian Darian (~knoppix@pcp06905770pcs.rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net)`
`08:37.21`	`peterS`	`npx: what did that buy me?`
`08:37.29`	`man_in_shack`	`anyway, that doesn't matter`
`08:37.31`	`man_in_shack`	`i have my reconfigured XF86Config`
`08:37.33`	`dondelelcaro`	`jetscreamer: that takes the stdin to compare`
`08:37.37`	`jetscreamer`	`ah`
`08:37.59`	`jetscreamer`	`good thing i finally figured out what stdin is eh`
`08:38.00`	`npx`	`peterS, If you've got a local root exploit, it bought you a root shell`
`08:38.10`	`Sarvok`	`can anyone tell me if i haven'to to specify another KGB rules in free86 confuration ?`
`08:38.10`	`*** join/#debian Mike (~mike@201.135.48.52)`
`08:38.14`	`peterS`	`npx: what has that to do with the ability to run setuid binaries?`
`08:38.24`	`*** join/#debian cyrlap (~cyrlap@c-15ee71d5.448-1-64736c15.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`08:38.26`	`Darian`	`anyone know what switches i should use t orepair a fat32 based harddrive?`
`08:38.36`	`npx`	`Not much, it has a lot to do with the ability to run binaries though`
`08:38.37`	`kevix`	`Sarvok, would: 'setxkbmap fr' help?`
`08:38.37`	`*** join/#debian Joris (~joris@213-193-182-141.adsl.easynet.be)`
`08:38.38`	`jetscreamer`	`sarvok, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 i think will give you what you need`
`08:38.44`	`jetscreamer`	`or at least asked about`
`08:39.00`	`jetscreamer`	`or what kevix said`
`08:39.08`	`Sarvok`	`i try again to reconfigure xfree86 30sec pleaz`
`08:39.21`	`man_in_shack`	`all i want to do is get my :1 xserver to go up to the higher resolutions so i can make sure they work before restarting :0`
`08:39.22`	`npx`	`I'll concede that in the real world nosuid isn't terribly useful (it makes me feel better though) - but calling noexec stupid strikes me as a bit shortsighted`
`08:39.22`	`peterS`	`npx: I thought you were arguing for 'nosuid'`
`08:39.23`	`jetscreamer`	`Sarvok, i'd try kevix's first if it was me`
`08:39.30`	`npx`	`peterS, nosuid and noexec`
`08:39.42`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: so use ctrl-alt-+/-`
`08:39.51`	`peterS`	`npx: ok, so how do you propose to prevent me from running "/lib/ld-linux.so.2 /tmp/my_sploit"?`
`08:39.58`	`kevix`	`jetscreamer, it amazing what google 'debian french keyboard' will do x-)`
`08:40.00`	`peterS`	`npx: hint: noexec will not prevent this`
`08:40.01`	`dondelelcaro`	`npx: I've already explained why noexec is stupid, like 10 minutes ago`
`08:40.29`	`npx`	`I didn't know you could do that`
`08:40.33`	`peterS`	`npx: now you know (:`
`08:40.34`	`Darian`	`not to seem pushy, but i kindof need some help here.`
`08:40.39`	`dondelelcaro`	`about all it's useful for is stopping clueless skript kiddes`
`08:40.54`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, i tried that`
`08:40.58`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, sheesh, how dumb do you think i am?`
`08:41.05`	`jetscreamer`	`ah he wants to fsck a vfat,`
`08:41.08`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, it's supposed to start in 1920x1440 mode, it starts in 1024x768`
`08:41.10`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, and it refuses to go any higher`
`08:41.14`	`*** join/#debian Rei_Jonathan (~oleg@213.190.37.142)`
`08:41.14`	`kevix`	`Darian, what have you tried?`
`08:41.18`	`jetscreamer`	`Darian, did you man fsck?`
`08:41.32`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: you're the one with the problem, not me.`
`08:41.35`	`peterS`	`npx: btw, "/lib/ld-linux.so.2 /bin/mv" is very handy if you ever are stupid enough to rename /lib. you might think that's an odd thing to do but I've seen people come into #debian for that reason`
`08:41.36`	`npx`	`man_in_shack: Have you specified an incorrect vertrefresh/horizsync param?`
`08:41.41`	`Darian`	`yes and, unfortunatly, the man file went over my head....as in i'm not exactly sure what set of switches will best help me here`
`08:41.42`	`*** join/#debian jonesy (~andrew@CPE-61-9-202-228.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`08:41.52`	`man_in_shack`	`npx, i don't think so`
`08:41.57`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: if your monitor won't start in 1920x1440, then you probably don't have the proper refreshrates, or you don't have 1920x1440 set as the default resolution.`
`08:42.03`	`peterS`	`npx: or I should say, since you renamed /lib, "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/foo_lib /foo_lib/ld-linux.so.2 /bin/mv" is the handy thing`
`08:42.06`	`kevix`	`Darian, what command did you use? what man page?`
`08:42.17`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, it's the first one on the list. that's supposed to be default, right?`
`08:42.23`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: look at the output in your XFree86.0.log and see why it was unable to use that resolution.`
`08:42.35`	`npx`	`peterS, Can you do the same thing on (for example) solaris?`
`08:42.36`	`Darian`	`fsck`
`08:43.09`	`simonrvn`	`chuck a vfat is the only thing i can think of`
`08:43.11`	`peterS`	`npx: obviously the ELF loader is not named ld-linux.so.2 on solaris, but I think you probably can, using its loader. however, I have not used solaris in about 10 years, and I didn't know much about ELF back then, so I dunno`
`08:43.24`	`Darian`	`...nevermind, just rememebered which command fsck uses on a fat system, checking THAT man page now....`
`08:43.32`	`npx`	`peterS, nods I figured that much, was just curious if you knew`
`08:43.36`	`dondelelcaro`	`Darian: dosfsck /dev/device; is probably what you want`
`08:43.39`	`yhg`	`okay, lacking that, howto on writing udev rules? Anything?`
`08:43.45`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, "no mode of this name"`
`08:43.46`	`peterS`	`npx: quite possibly you cannot, actually. you'd have to look into it`
`08:43.59`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: then your modelines don't have a 1920x1440 entry`
`08:44.06`	`kevix`	`Darian, dosfsck ?`
`08:44.20`	`Darian`	`i know how to use fsck...least that alone, its just i'm not quite sure how to actually fix thigns since it gives me three options. copy original to backup, copy backup to original, do nothing`
`08:44.37`	`Darian`	`and i'm unsure of which switches to use with dosfsck`
`08:44.49`	`man_in_shack`	`wtf do i need modelines for all my fscking resolutions?`
`08:44.49`	`man_in_shack`	`and i can't even get them without being able to use them`
`08:44.53`	`peterS`	`Darian: copy original what to backup?`
`08:44.58`	`peterS`	`Darian: the FAT itself?`
`08:45.06`	`kevix`	`yhg, did you want to know how to write udev rules?`
`08:45.19`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: you need a modeline for whatever resolution you want to use, otherwise the X server has no clue how to drive that resolution.`
`08:45.36`	`yhg`	`man_in_shack: If you don't have different modes written out then how does x know not to try like 123x5?`
`08:45.41`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, htf do i get modelines for resolutions that don't work?`
`08:45.57`	`yhg`	`kevix: Yeah, specifically trying to get an IDE zip drive to work.`
`08:46.06`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: you need the modeline BEFORE the resolution will work`
`08:46.08`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: write them. see the xfree86 video timings howto by eric s. raymond. or, use one of the online mode line generators to get you started`
`08:46.23`	`kevix`	`Darian, the -a or -r option?`
`08:46.45`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: btw, if you wonder why I mentioned the full name of the HOWTO and the full name of its author, that was for better googlability`
`08:46.59`	`Sarvok`	`arf for my keyboard problem anyone can tell me the option to change in the xfree86 reconfiguration ?`
`08:47.45`	`*** join/#debian daboost (~tonny@d51525288.kabel.telenet.be)`
`08:47.45`	`peterS`	`zignig: apt-cacher >> apt-proxy`
`08:47.55`	`simonrvn`	`Sarvok: dpkg-reconfigure debconf, set to low, then dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86, and read the text`
`08:47.57`	`Darian`	`actually that was with no options. with the -a option it tosses up the same hex as with no switches then telles me it cna't automaticly repair it`
`08:48.01`	`man_in_shack`	`2. Why This HOWTO Is Obsolete`
`08:48.01`	`zignig`	`peterS: ok , will have a look`
`08:48.10`	`jetscreamer`	`ahhhhhh`
`08:48.12`	`*** join/#debian Click (~Zeyneppp@dsl81-214-29291.adsl.ttnet.net.tr)`
`08:48.14`	`Sarvok`	`thx U`
`08:48.15`	`peterS`	`zignig: apt-cacher is a CGI program, so it requires a running web server`
`08:48.24`	`jetscreamer`	`darian you might want to look your stuff back over`
`08:48.46`	`jetscreamer`	`once, i used that to repair a vfat..... one tha twasn't broken it turned out.`
`08:48.48`	`peterS`	`zignig: whereas apt-proxy is its own mini-web-server. this means apt-cacher works in at least one situation where apt-proxy doesn't, since the HTTP protocol support is better`
`08:48.50`	`*** join/#debian tompa (thomas@b506.vildanden.afb.lu.se)`
`08:48.51`	`zignig`	`peterS: ha apt-cache show apt-cacher`
`08:48.57`	`peterS`	`heh, right`
`08:49.04`	`jetscreamer`	`i forget the details`
`08:49.17`	`man_in_shack`	`peterS, question: how do i get the right modeline for the monitor without knowing any of the timings for the monitor?`
`08:49.26`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: I answered that question already`
`08:49.34`	`zignig`	`peterS: i'll check it out, i'm using it for preseed installs , so I don't have to keep re-downloading the packages.`
`08:49.41`	`jetscreamer`	`man_in_shack, did you google your monitor model? has worked for me every time to get thosee rates`
`08:49.47`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: oh, wait, no I didn't. you have to find out the specs for the monitor, or just guess`
`08:49.56`	`kevix`	`Darian, check this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/10/msg03155.html`
`08:50.20`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: if you know what resolution / refresh rate the monitor is supposed to support, you can make a reasonable guess at a mode line that provides that resolution / refresh, and it will probably be in spec for the monitor`
`08:50.26`	`*** join/#debian switch_ (~switch@pool-68-238-8-152.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`08:50.30`	`switch_`	`Hello`
`08:50.37`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: if it's not, you then tighten the horitontal numbers until it is`
`08:50.41`	`man_in_shack`	`jetscreamer, yes, i googled the fscking monitor and came up blank`
`08:50.55`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: what monitor is this? Are you even sure it can drive 1920x1440?`
`08:51.18`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, no, that's part of the problem`
`08:51.26`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: I meant, you tighten the horizontal numbers and lower the dot clock, keeping the vertical refresh constant, until it is in spec`
`08:51.33`	`jetscreamer`	`what monitor`
`08:51.36`	`jetscreamer`	`how old`
`08:51.37`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: what monitor is this?`
`08:51.41`	`kevix`	`switch_, how are things in chicago?`
`08:51.47`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, i have no idea what resolutions it can handle, that's why i'm trying to get it to do shit like this`
`08:51.48`	`man_in_shack`	`ibm 2264`
`08:51.51`	`man_in_shack`	`that's all the info i have`
`08:52.06`	`kevix`	`man_in_shack, did you get in RatShack?`
`08:52.07`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: what's the (a) size and (b) year of manufacture?`
`08:52.09`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: is that what it says on the front of the monitor? Does it say anything on the back? How big is it?`
`08:52.15`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: those are things you should be able to find out just by looking at it`
`08:52.15`	`Darian`	`Thanks`
`08:52.42`	`jetscreamer`	`is that a thinkvision?`
`08:52.43`	`jetscreamer`	`http://www-8.ibm.com/products/southeastasia/Brand.wss?brand=mo&series=mo_flat_es&nextpage=seriesmodels&ctry=my&gpid=C2272GNXPA`
`08:52.53`	`*** join/#debian Spods (~paul@203-59-187-57.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`08:52.58`	`npx`	`man_in_shack: if it won't go past 1024x768 and your modelines are correct, it just ain't gonna do it.`
`08:53.01`	`npx`	`(safely)`
`08:53.06`	`man_in_shack`	`don't laugh, it's 14"`
`08:53.12`	`yhg`	`...`
`08:53.14`	`man_in_shack`	`npx, i KNOW it goes higher, i just don't know how much`
`08:53.14`	`dondelelcaro`	`hahahahahahahaha`
`08:53.22`	`npx`	`There you go. 14" monitors won't display 1920x1440.`
`08:53.27`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: 14" will not do 1920x1440. I guarantee it`
`08:53.34`	`yhg`	`You're getting all frustrated because you can't do 1920x1440 on a 14" monitor? Jesus.`
`08:53.34`	`dondelelcaro`	`there's no way in fucking hell that monitor will display 1920x1440. It probably won't even do 1280x1024`
`08:53.36`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: you'll be lucky to get 1280x960`
`08:53.46`	`*** join/#debian aveng0 (~apple@mcaplan.mtl.istop.com)`
`08:53.46`	`dondelelcaro`	`s/1024/960/`
`08:53.47`	`kevix`	`yhg, check this: http://www.reactivated.net/udevrules.php`
`08:53.47`	`*** join/#debian Holborn (~holborn@237.Red-217-125-137.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`08:53.52`	`man_in_shack`	`peterS, i don't care. it's not even TRYING to`
`08:53.53`	`npx`	`Shit I'd be surprised if he could get a flicker-free 1152x864`
`08:53.54`	`yhg`	`A pixel would be the size of a germ.`
`08:53.55`	`*** join/#debian baloo (baloo@c-24-20-192-244.client.comcast.net)`
`08:53.59`	`Guerin`	`and even if it could, it'd be unreadable`
`08:54.02`	`*** join/#debian grendal_prime (~grendal@dsl166-053.caltel.com)`
`08:54.06`	`Spods`	`hi all`
`08:54.18`	`Spods`	`anyone familiar with troubleshooting xinerama problems?`
`08:54.20`	`baloo`	`Hi all.`
`08:54.21`	`*** part/#debian Darian (~knoppix@pcp06905770pcs.rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net)`
`08:54.24`	`npx`	`Spods, just ask`
`08:54.25`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: it won't try to. If it did, it'd blow up the monitor.`
`08:54.26`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: you're embarking on a pointless exercise to conjure up a mode line for 1920x1440 for that monitor. I won't continue to waste my time helping you do something I know is impossible`
`08:54.32`	`kevix`	`yhg, any good places for baked beans?`
`08:54.43`	`grendal_prime`	`ok i got this dvd..problem..every time i fre up a dvd it works until it gets to a menu..then it crashes`
`08:54.45`	`grendal_prime`	`any ideas?`
`08:54.58`	`Sarvok`	`how can i change my colour fonts ? how can i change my nick ?`
`08:55.00`	`dondelelcaro`	`grendal_prime: you can skip past the menus...`
`08:55.05`	`Spods`	`npx: xinerama "works", it has two screens, but the second screen is an identical twin to the first`
`08:55.07`	`yhg`	`kevix: Thanks, that looks useful... uh, hmm?`
`08:55.08`	`sussudio`	`Sarvok: /nick bastard`
`08:55.10`	`zignig`	`grendal_prime: stop buying dodgey, european porn ?`
`08:55.10`	`*** join/#debian DoDo (~Z-i-Y-a@cm162.omega136.maxonline.com.sg)`
`08:55.21`	`rich_`	`We havent even started on the "big magnifying glass" solutions :)`
`08:55.24`	`kevix`	`zignig, heheh`
`08:55.24`	`npx`	`grendal_prime: go german`
`08:55.28`	`Sarvok`	`thx U sussudio`
`08:55.29`	`man_in_shack`	`look you bastards i KNOW it can go higher, i just don't know by how much`
`08:55.30`	`grendal_prime`	`zignig, good....idea`
`08:55.30`	`grendal_prime`	`hehehe`
`08:55.30`	`Spods`	`npx: i can drag apps of to the second screen, where they disappear`
`08:55.39`	`man_in_shack`	`so stop fscking around`
`08:55.41`	`*** join/#debian MoDaX (albnjh@adsl-81-7-113-155.takas.lt)`
`08:55.45`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: so try 1152x864`
`08:55.46`	`npx`	`Spods: Are you sure your window manager supports xinerama?`
`08:55.50`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: stop being abusive, or you will be devoiced.`
`08:55.53`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: that's the next step up, and it might actually work with that monitor`
`08:55.54`	`simonrvn`	`now i know he's stupid`
`08:55.56`	`*** join/#debian jtrio3 (~jtrio3@AP-203.167.26.219.sysads.com)`
`08:56.00`	`*** join/#debian AceSmythe (~AceSmythe@1Cust7613.an1.lax33.da.uu.net)`
`08:56.00`	`*** join/#debian laziz (~laziz@dsl-84.209.240.220.dsl.comindico.com.au)`
`08:56.00`	`*** join/#debian XP1 (XP2@pool-68-162-114-102.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`08:56.04`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: if that works, try 1280x960`
`08:56.04`	`Guerin`	`i've never seen a 14" monitor which went beyond 1024x768`
`08:56.17`	`Spods`	`npx: it's kde 3.2 on X11 4.3.0`
`08:56.18`	`Guerin`	`admittedly, I haven't seen any new ones`
`08:56.25`	`npx`	`Spods, hardware?`
`08:56.26`	`grendal_prime`	`im starting to think its a bad drive actually`
`08:56.28`	`kevix`	`man_in_shack, I think you need a new LCD 21"`
`08:56.31`	`dondelelcaro`	`Guerin: I don't even know if they make new 14" monitors...`
`08:56.37`	`npx`	`Guerin: I've gotten one to 1152x864, not usable though.`
`08:56.38`	`Guerin`	`true`
`08:56.40`	`peterS`	`Guerin: I haven't seen any new ones either. it seems nobody sells less than 15" anymore`
`08:56.42`	`simonrvn`	`i have a 15" here that can do a warped 1280x960, and a comfy 1024x768`
`08:56.42`	`*** join/#debian ioctl (joe@203-79-91-148.apx0.paradise.net.nz)`
`08:56.44`	`sussudio`	`Guerin: oh. they will go beyond 1024x768 but you need a lot of ibuprofen after you tried.`
`08:56.47`	`zignig`	`grendal_prime: can you play it with mplayer without the menu ?`
`08:56.50`	`Guerin`	`haha`
`08:56.58`	`Spods`	`npx: radeon 9200 (dual headed on one card) 28Mb`
`08:57.01`	`Guerin`	`or just put yer glasses on backwards :)`
`08:57.07`	`Spods`	`npx: 128Mb i mean`
`08:57.16`	`peterS`	`Spods: megabits?`
`08:57.18`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: you may have set one of the Clone options`
`08:57.23`	`Guerin`	`well, I figured out what my xdefaults problem was.... xrdb -merge`
`08:57.27`	`yhg`	`man_in_shack: If you have the proper modes set out in in your config file, and you've set the default to 1900x1440, that means that x _is_ trying to use those, but they don't work. It will use the highest one that works.`
`08:57.28`	`Guerin`	`I hadn't merged them`
`08:57.35`	`Guerin`	`!lart me`
`08:57.40`	`Spods`	`peterS: sorry, MB 128`
`08:57.48`	`stoned`	`how can I go back to the base debian system that you get after install, only without having to reinstall and isntall all the drivers and such. basically i want to remove all packages that are not the base debian system`
`08:57.49`	`peterS`	`yhg: no, the highest one that works that is specified as a resolution to try`
`08:57.53`	`*** join/#debian aveng0 (~apple@mcaplan.mtl.istop.com)`
`08:57.56`	`Guerin`	`now I'm going to have a beer`
`08:57.58`	`npx`	`What dondelcaro said, I'd also check to see if there were any issues with the particular X drivers you're using`
`08:58.00`	`man_in_shack`	`that's what i started out doing`
`08:58.05`	`yhg`	`man_in_shack: Actually you can set what order it tries them it, but they're generally higher to smaller.`
`08:58.06`	`man_in_shack`	`Guerin, you haven't seen mine then`
`08:58.10`	`man_in_shack`	`kevix, you want to pay for one?`
`08:58.23`	`ioctl`	`Hi all, this is probably a pretty obvious question, but I was wondering if there was an easy way to tell which .iso a particular package can be found on, without downloading all of them until you find the one you need... any ideas?`
`08:58.24`	`man_in_shack`	`ok, seriously now, i started out trying to add the lower resolutions to it`
`08:58.28`	`Guerin`	`man_in_shack: I'd rather not, either.`
`08:58.30`	`man_in_shack`	`but it refuses to go above 1024x768`
`08:58.32`	`kevix`	`man_in_shack, just kidding! Ask Santa!`
`08:58.42`	`naim`	`i have a debian desktop, need to make it the master master and the rest machines nodes without X, making one big cluster so i have a fat CPU`
`08:58.45`	`peterS`	`ioctl: ask here, we can probably tell you if a package is on CD 1 or not`
`08:58.46`	`Guerin`	`man_in_shack: sorry, what was I just saying?`
`08:58.47`	`man_in_shack`	`and i have no idea how to get modelines without getting it to that resolution to start off with`
`08:58.48`	`*** join/#debian tomb0y (hoe@subscribes.to.playboy.and.26OO.com)`
`08:58.56`	`man_in_shack`	`yhg, i've just about had it with you guys. you're not giving me anything i don't know`
`08:59.09`	`stoned`	`ioctl, woulnd't you specify apt sources for cdrom in apt-setup`
`08:59.17`	`npx`	`man_in_shack: so fuck off`
`08:59.20`	`simonrvn`	`apt-cdrom`
`08:59.21`	`kevix`	`stoned, so what stops you from 'apt-get remove ....'`
`08:59.22`	`peterS`	`ioctl: or visit http://popcon.debian.org/, which has the package rankings which are (approximately) used to determine the CD order. then you can make an educated guess`
`08:59.38`	`man_in_shack`	`npx, and people were complaining about me being abusive`
`08:59.40`	`yhg`	`man_in_shack: We don't have anything else to give you. We tell you that to the best of our combined knowledge you can't do what you're trying to do, and you tell us all to go fuck ourselves because it's not working.`
`08:59.40`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: I won't warn you again. Either stop being abusive to people who are trying to help, or go elsewhere.`
`08:59.46`	`man_in_shack`	`npx, do it yourself`
`08:59.52`	`*** part/#debian XP1 (XP2@pool-68-162-114-102.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`09:00.03`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro and npx: just checked, there's no Clone option in the /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file`
`09:00.07`	`stoned`	`kevix, i dont knwo which packages are required by the debian base system i don't want to end up removing something i dont know`
`09:00.09`	`deadshell`	`man_in_shack, don't you have to restart x`
`09:00.12`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: can you use the paster bot to paste your X config?`
`09:00.15`	`man_in_shack`	`yhg, ok, you're seriously possing me off now`
`09:00.19`	`man_in_shack`	`yhg, I KNOW THIS MONITOR CAN GO HIGHER`
`09:00.21`	`npx`	`Spods, what drivers are you using?`
`09:00.25`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: /msg dpkg paster`
`09:00.38`	`npx`	`Yeah, taht works too`
`09:00.39`	`Guerin`	`man_in_shack: SO MAKE IT FUCKING GO HIGHER`
`09:00.39`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: I told you what to try. come back when you have tried 1152x864.`
`09:00.42`	`ioctl`	`PeterS: thanks.`
`09:00.51`	`Guerin`	`man_in_shack: prove us all wrong, go on.`
`09:00.55`	`man_in_shack`	`peterS, that was the first thing i did`
`09:00.57`	`*** join/#debian rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user)`
`09:01.03`	`man_in_shack`	`peterS, which was before i came in here`
`09:01.15`	`TerminX`	`man_in_shack: you're trying to do 1920x1440 on a 14"?`
`09:01.19`	`yhg`	`man_in_shack: I apologize for possing you off. Maybe next try strapping it to a homebrew rocket. That should get it pretty high.`
`09:01.25`	`deadshell`	`man_in_shack, did you restart x`
`09:01.35`	`*** part/#debian hettar (~Hettar@ppp234-200.lns1.bne3.internode.on.net)`
`09:01.45`	`man_in_shack`	`peterS, now you're telling me that i don't have the right modelines, which i can't get`
`09:01.47`	`ioctl`	`PeterS: I'm trying to compile a new kernel (sparc architecture) and it seems that the 64-bit crosscompiler isn't on the first .iso - pretty stupid I'd have thought, but there you go..`
`09:01.47`	`man_in_shack`	`TerminX, you shut up`
`09:01.47`	`man_in_shack`	`deadshell, yes`
`09:01.53`	`kevix`	`stoned, I just went into 'aptitude' -> installed packaes->base`
`09:01.57`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro and npx: just give me a tick to work out this paster and I will send the config through`
`09:01.58`	`man_in_shack`	`deadshell, i'm trying to change the resolutions on a second xserver. whenever it doesn't work, i close it down`
`09:02.05`	`npx`	`man_in_shack: is this really so hard to grasp? If the vertrefresh/horizsync are correct, and X refuses to set it higher than 1024x768, it simply won't go there. You can 1.) use 1024x768 2.) read up on writing custom modelines and blow your monitor up by being an idiot`
`09:02.07`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: no, 1152x864 is built in to your X server already, so you don't need modelines for that one`
`09:02.09`	`stoned`	`ok`
`09:02.20`	`peterS`	`man_in_shack: make sure you are inputting high enough specs for horizontal and vertical refresh to accommodate 1152x864. since you apparently don't know your monitor specs, you'll have to overestimate the horizontal range, and set the vertical one to something like 31-65`
`09:02.40`	`zignig`	`peterS: has apt-cacher worked well for you ? it looks like a better idea then apt-proxy`
`09:02.46`	`rich_`	`man_in_shack judgeing from what people said, the best idea I saw would be to ask ibm, either in person, or on the web. I used to have a monitor that I had to call the company to get the specs from.`
`09:02.47`	`man_in_shack`	`peterS, ok, NOW you're giving me something useful`
`09:02.54`	`zignig`	`peterS: and better in terms of firewall.`
`09:03.04`	`peterS`	`zignig: I switched to it because apt-cacher works with debootstrap (aka debian-installer) whereas apt-proxy didn't`
`09:03.10`	`*** join/#debian jazzmans (~arthur@ip68-224-7-31.lv.lv.cox.net)`
`09:03.19`	`npx`	`man_in_shack: if you'd said "I don't know the appropriate horizsync/vertrefresh for my monitor, can someone help?" you'd have gotten useful responses immediately`
`09:03.23`	`deadshell`	`man_in_shack, i kept mine at 1024x768 but i'll try higher to see what i come up with brb`
`09:03.27`	`ioctl`	`dude, this is a really useful site.`
`09:03.40`	`zignig`	`peterS: i've got preseeded d-i using apt-proxy as we speak(text).`
`09:03.48`	*** join/#debian `UD (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)
`09:03.50`	`kevix`	`ioctl, which one?`
`09:03.57`	`peterS`	`zignig: ahh. maybe d-i has fixed the apt-proxy incompatibility in the past few months`
`09:04.11`	`zignig`	`peterS: apparently ;)`
`09:04.23`	`dondelelcaro`	`ioctl: the isos are assigned (primarily) based on popcon results... so the 64 bit cross compiler just isn't all that popular.`
`09:04.31`	`stoned`	`do i still need the kernel headers package after i have done installed my drivers`
`09:04.32`	`peterS`	`zignig: anyway, apt-proxy is probably still a better solution if you aren't intending to install apache (:`
`09:04.32`	`kevix`	`zignig, I'd like to see a HOWTO what that! joey hess mentioned preseeding.`
`09:04.56`	`dondelelcaro`	`kevix: there's some documentation on debian.org/devel/debian-installer/`
`09:05.06`	`dondelelcaro`	`kevix: I thought the wiki had some more information on it as well`
`09:05.10`	`zignig`	`kevix: i'll grab you a url.`
`09:05.13`	`npx`	`man_in_shack: you might want to install the read-edid package.`
`09:05.20`	`*** join/#debian tomb0y (hoe@subscribes.to.playboy.and.26OO.com)`
`09:05.23`	`*** part/#debian baloo (baloo@c-24-20-192-244.client.comcast.net)`
`09:05.24`	`kevix`	`dondelelcaro, of course!`
`09:05.38`	`peterS`	`kevix: zignig has been whining about preseeding d-i for a long time now. it might be thanks to his persistence in complaining about this that someone finally implemented it (:`
`09:05.40`	`*** join/#debian Spods2 (~paul@203-59-187-57.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`09:05.41`	`man_in_shack`	`"width too large for virtual size" :\|`
`09:05.50`	`*** join/#debian Hechsler (~benny@p508A82F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`09:05.52`	`*** join/#debian jetscreamer (jetscreame@adsl-64-219-216-41.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)`
`09:06.01`	`Sarvok`	`i've a problem again`
`09:06.08`	`Sarvok`	`i'd like to re install ALSA`
`09:06.11`	`Spods2`	`dondelelcaro and npx: did that work? i lost my connection`
`09:06.29`	`kevix`	`Sarvok, did you fix the keyboard yet!`
`09:06.31`	`npx`	`Spods2, I'm not even sure how the paster url thing works`
`09:06.34`	`grendal_prime`	`its working now...werid`
`09:06.47`	`zignig`	`kevix: http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?DebianInstallerPreseed`
`09:06.50`	`*** join/#debian deadshell (~deadshell@ool-44c44e58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`09:06.54`	`grendal_prime`	`oh well i did upgrade systemwide via aptitude..must have fixed something`
`09:06.58`	`Sarvok`	`when i type ./configure to make install the driver later .... shell tell me : "the c compiler cannnot create the executable now"`
`09:06.59`	`grendal_prime`	`working pretty kick ass now`
`09:07.10`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: yes, your Virtual resolution has to be larger than the physical resolution you're trying to use.`
`09:07.13`	`peterS`	`!d-i Sarvok`
`09:07.15`	`kevix`	`zignig, launching tab now...`
`09:07.15`	`Sarvok`	`nw it don't seems to works .. can you repeat me what i must write ?`
`09:07.15`	`peterS`	`errrrr`
`09:07.18`	`peterS`	`!b-e Sarvok`
`09:07.19`	`dpkg`	`Sarvok: Sounds like you need to install build-essential.`
`09:07.22`	`deadshell`	`how do you find out what your current resolution is?`
`09:07.31`	`Spods2`	`npx: should I try it again?`
`09:07.31`	`peterS`	`deadshell: xdpyinfo \| less`
`09:07.32`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: although, you probably don't even want to set a Virtual resolution`
`09:07.33`	`Sarvok`	`1024x768`
`09:07.34`	`zignig`	`peterS: :P, bite me! joey hess is the king for this stuff, i'm just interested in automated installs`
`09:07.44`	`*** join/#debian Sagstuen (~roger@80.239.69.147)`
`09:07.46`	`*** join/#debian zamolxes (~zamolxes@82.76.1.167)`
`09:07.47`	`deadshell`	`thanks peterS`
`09:07.53`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: not that I saw...`
`09:08.10`	`AceSmythe`	`HAHAHA`
`09:08.16`	`*** part/#debian Sagstuen (~roger@80.239.69.147)`
`09:08.25`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: just visit http://channels.debian.net/paste/ and paste away`
`09:08.25`	`AceSmythe`	`this seems like a really thought out and in-depth way to find the checksum:`
`09:08.26`	`AceSmythe`	`<PROTECTED>`
`09:08.26`	`AceSmythe`	`<PROTECTED>`
`09:08.37`	`kevix`	`zignig, isn't that's what D-i was shooting for? besides the obvious?`
`09:08.50`	`peterS`	`AceSmythe: that's not the whole code, right?`
`09:09.00`	`simonrvn`	`AceSmythe: wow, that is like, sooo advanced`
`09:09.03`	`Sarvok`	`jetscreamer : i've type kevi'xs and now what must i do ?`
`09:09.07`	`peterS`	`AceSmythe: and what language is that?`
`09:09.12`	`npx`	`AceSmythe: =) ingenius!`
`09:09.25`	`zignig`	`kevix: to a certain extent, d-i is just a well thought universal installer that is very flexible.`
`09:09.31`	`peterS`	`npx: ingenious, unlike genius, has an o in it (:`
`09:09.33`	`AceSmythe`	`i cant be sure, but i think its mIRC code of some kind`
`09:09.39`	`helpneeded2`	`Hi im running an test apache server on my box. I can access it at http://127.0.0.1 but not if i use http://192.168.0.10 (which is my lan ip) Is this normal?`
`09:09.40`	`AceSmythe`	`and i mean, internal code`
`09:09.45`	`man_in_shack`	`npx, i did`
`09:09.49`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro: i did, konquerer comes back after transmitting, the form is clear but nothing happens on the channel`
`09:09.49`	`jetscreamer`	`Sarvok, that command wasn't enough? did you try the dpkg-reconfigure one?`
`09:09.52`	`*** join/#debian spunz (~spunz@h081217096096.dyn.cm.kabsi.at)`
`09:09.59`	`peterS`	`AceSmythe: ahh. the $v_checksum line looks like perl or php, but the // comment line doesn't`
`09:10.01`	`npx`	`peterS: that's a new one on me`
`09:10.05`	`AceSmythe`	`helpneeded2: yes, you can use http://localhost/ too`
`09:10.07`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: just give us the URL that it gave you...`
`09:10.19`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, well, where does the virtual resolution get set?`
`09:10.23`	`AceSmythe`	`php uses // and /* */`
`09:10.25`	`grendal_prime`	`well this is interesting`
`09:10.29`	`AceSmythe`	`or at least its all i ever use`
`09:10.34`	`stoned`	`do i need to have exim4 on my system or can i remove that, it also tried to remove at and i dunno if its a good idea, what do you think`
`09:10.35`	`helpneeded2`	`AceSmythe the thing is 192.168.0.1 ISNT working ... is that normal?`
`09:10.38`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: in your XF86Config file, the Display section.`
`09:10.39`	`peterS`	`AceSmythe: ahh. could be php then. I had forgotten that about it`
`09:10.39`	`grendal_prime`	`just realized my frigging modem has a sound card on it as well...`
`09:10.44`	`AceSmythe`	`helpneeded2: never worked for me`
`09:10.47`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, ?`
`09:10.50`	`helpneeded2`	`ok`
`09:10.58`	`AceSmythe`	`that address is usually reserved for router configuration pages`
`09:10.59`	`grendal_prime`	`mayby thats why im having so many strange problems with my sound`
`09:11.03`	`man_in_shack`	`helpneeded2, check your firewall settings perhaps ...`
`09:11.05`	`helpneeded2`	`ok`
`09:11.07`	`zignig`	`stoned: debian needs a mta, look at null mailer or just make exim run on lo`
`09:11.10`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro: whatdya mean, http://channels.debian.net/paste ?`
`09:11.14`	`grendal_prime`	`and my mixer looks so frigging bizaro`
`09:11.19`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: visit there and paste away`
`09:11.25`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, as far as i can tell it should be working`
`09:11.35`	`yhg`	`okay... /sys doesn't seem to have complete information for my zip drive. What could that mean? I have no clue.`
`09:11.39`	`Sarvok`	`jetscreamer : no sorry, i'm a newbee .... i try with dpkg-reconfigure`
`09:11.39`	`grendal_prime`	`im gonna yank that fkr and see how it behaves`
`09:11.42`	`paster`	`"dondelelcaro" at 138.23.92.79 pasted "testing" (1 line) at http://channels.debian.net/paste/75`
`09:11.43`	`helpneeded2`	`man_in_shack so in the normal course of events 192.168.0.10 should work as a url?`
`09:11.44`	`grendal_prime`	`brb`
`09:11.54`	`dondelelcaro`	`yerp... it'd be working`
`09:12.18`	`*** join/#debian syquest (~syquest@valene.org)`
`09:12.23`	`*** part/#debian syquest (~syquest@valene.org)`
`09:12.38`	*** join/#debian `UD (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)
`09:12.42`	`kevix`	`yhg, is it showing up as /dev/hd???? anything of /var/log/messages or /var/log/dmesg?`
`09:13.03`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro: i just did for the fourth time, the form uploads, then all field clear themselves just like if I had hit the reload button`
`09:13.15`	`dondelelcaro`	`man_in_shack: obviously not, because your Virtual resolution is smaller than the Modes resolution that was selected`
`09:13.38`	`AceSmythe`	`yeah, that code i posted, i think when logging was on and the computer borked, it somehow saved not the conversation, but some of the code running the program itself`
`09:13.41`	`yhg`	`kevix: It's not showing up as /dev/hdd, though it is detected at bootup. I can get it working by creating a node manually with mknod, but it's gone after reboot.`
`09:13.46`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: ah, you need to go to channels.debian.net/paste/ not channels.debian.net/paste`
`09:13.46`	`AceSmythe`	`i should post it someplace`
`09:13.49`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, ok, well, i got it now`
`09:13.49`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, you in #flood?`
`09:13.53`	`stoned`	`zignig, how do I use null mailer and ditch exim altogether`
`09:14.03`	`Sarvok`	`So i've just typed "dpkg-reconfigure kevix's" and it's the same thing : the bash have a line started with ">" and that all !`
`09:14.08`	`peterS`	`stoned: aptitude install nullmailer exim-`
`09:14.26`	`peterS`	`stoned: or, in sarge or sid, aptitude install nullmailer exim4-`
`09:14.47`	`stoned`	`oh its a package, i thought i had to do some sor of weir linking shit to point mta to null`
`09:14.47`	`stoned`	`nm`
`09:14.51`	`Guerin`	`!moron Sarvok`
`09:14.51`	`dpkg`	`Sarvok: You are moron #46`
`09:14.59`	`kevix`	`Sarvok, the command is not finished?`
`09:15.03`	`zignig`	`stoned: too many blunts for you ...... :P`
`09:15.17`	`*** join/#debian cyberyo (~cyberyo@AClermont-Ferrand-251-1-17-223.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`09:15.31`	`peterS`	`stoned: yes, and it's best to install / remove as a single step, like I typed, because the system will whine about dependencies if you don't (some mailer is supposed to be installed)`
`09:15.35`	`cyberyo`	`io`
`09:15.40`	`*** join/#debian scoopex (~marc@t54fc4254.pool.terralink.de)`
`09:15.50`	`kevix`	`cyberyo, oi`
`09:16.04`	`Guerin`	`dpkg, no, qotd32 is <Sarvok> So i've just typed "dpkg-reconfigure kevix's" and it's the same thing : the bash have a line started with ">" and that all !`
`09:16.05`	`dpkg`	`okay, Guerin`
`09:16.22`	`paster`	`"Spods" at 203.59.187.57 pasted "XF86Config-4" (131 lines) at http://channels.debian.net/paste/76`
`09:16.45`	`*** join/#debian Ugly_Duck (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)`
`09:16.54`	`Sarvok`	`jevix : what command ? i've type kevix ....`
`09:17.00`	`peterS`	`thomas_a1am:`
`09:17.04`	`Spods`	`okays dondelecaro and npx, it's 76 as paster says`
`09:17.20`	`man_in_shack`	`could someone take a look at my error in #flood?`
`09:17.31`	`Guerin`	`Sarvok: what the FUCK makes you think there's a package called "kevix" installed on your box?`
`09:17.33`	`kevix`	`cyberyo, have you been to the film festival?`
`09:17.49`	`sussudio`	`Guerin: mushrooms`
`09:17.51`	`thomas_adam`	`peterS:`
`09:17.53`	`kevix`	`Guerin, I'm here!`
`09:18.00`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: ok, first things first, you probably don't need the VideoRam setting`
`09:18.18`	`Guerin`	`kevix: are you installed on Sarvok's machine?`
`09:18.20`	`Sarvok`	`Guerin => i don't know ....`
`09:18.22`	`*** part/#debian Patatus (ROK@201.224.120.20)`
`09:18.27`	`Sarvok`	`i'm so newb ...`
`09:18.38`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro: tried it without and it didn't fix the prob :(`
`09:18.39`	`kevix`	`Guerin, I wish I could travel by net!`
`09:18.43`	`Guerin`	`Sarvok: being a newb is no excuse for beins stupid`
`09:18.57`	`Guerin`	`peterS: you might have to use equivs`
`09:19.04`	`sussudio`	`deb http://www.ratemypoo.com/ ./`
`09:19.07`	`peterS`	`Guerin: ehh well`
`09:19.10`	`Guerin`	`peterS: but then, the question is: what does kevix provide?`
`09:19.12`	`man_in_shack`	`dondelelcaro, could you check out my error in #flood?`
`09:19.29`	`*** join/#debian derril_ (derril@S01060050fc1e9040.cg.shawcable.net)`
`09:19.34`	`peterS`	`Guerin: and what version is he?`
`09:19.34`	`thomas_adam`	`We should have a CMD: in dpkg which does just that, randomly.`
`09:19.46`	`kevix`	`Provides: yakotaki`
`09:19.51`	`*** join/#debian steve426f (~steve426f@24-240-243-94.charter.com)`
`09:19.53`	`cyberyo`	`kevix: what festival`
`09:20.02`	`*** join/#debian aveng0 (~apple@mcaplan.mtl.istop.com)`
`09:20.07`	`Sarvok`	`Guerin : thx U ... but i'm a newb and i speak/understand so bad English :S`
`09:20.08`	`kevix`	`cyberyo, http://www.clermont-filmfest.com/home.php?lang=2`
`09:20.09`	`peterS`	`thomas_adam: you should add the hot-babe clip art to xteddy`
`09:20.17`	`thomas_adam`	`peterS: heheheh.`
`09:20.17`	`Guerin`	`peterS: you'll have to ask Mrs Kevix, I guess`
`09:20.22`	`aveng0`	`anyone running Xorg? if so, what wm are you using?`
`09:20.25`	`KlaasVaag`	`!reiser`
`09:20.26`	`dpkg`	`i heard reiser is filed in my brain under "reiserfs". http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/2001week19/0069.html`
`09:20.38`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: yeah, that's not going to do anything... it's just not needed.`
`09:20.39`	`jager`	`is Xorg in sid?`
`09:20.56`	`man_in_shack`	`jager, i don't think it is yet`
`09:20.58`	`cyberyo`	`kevix: oh you know I live just near clermont-fd`
`09:20.59`	`sussudio`	`!irritate jager`
`09:21.00`	`dpkg`	`jager: hi every1 who uses sound plz msg me, chrchr`
`09:21.01`	`yhg`	`jager: no. /msg dpkg xorg`
`09:21.05`	`cyberyo`	`kevix: 15 minutes :)`
`09:21.12`	`thomas_adam`	`chrchr?`
`09:21.17`	`Sarvok`	`thx U all`
`09:21.20`	`sussudio`	`thomas_adam: random nick`
`09:21.24`	`thomas_adam`	`Ah.`
`09:21.27`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro: i forgot to mention i'm running debian sarge`
`09:21.38`	`Sarvok`	`as i speak too bad english, i'm going to the #debian-fr channel`
`09:21.44`	`Sarvok`	`really thx U`
`09:22.30`	`cyberyo`	`5 janv to 5 feb 2005 so i didn't go yet :)`
`09:22.33`	`Spods`	`testing to see if im still connected`
`09:22.39`	`Spods`	`yup`
`09:22.42`	`*** join/#debian trueno (~trueno@80.26.228.31)`
`09:23.04`	`yhg`	`Spods: You are indeed still connected.`
`09:23.13`	`cyberyo`	`kevix: 5 janv to 5 feb 2005 so i didn't go yet :)`
`09:23.24`	`*** part/#debian Sarvok (~chatzilla@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-38-73.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`09:23.26`	`*** join/#debian chris2 (~chris@p50915B3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`09:23.30`	`*** join/#debian lanchow_ (~lanchow@ca-bordeaux-16-216.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`09:23.31`	`Spods`	`thanks yhg, sometimes call waiting disconnects me`
`09:23.33`	`peterS`	`ah, he left`
`09:24.05`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: yeah, shouldn't matter. I don't see anything obvious in the radeon options that would do it...`
`09:24.27`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: and it looks like a few other people are seeing similar behavoir. It's possible that someone broke the radeon driver recently...`
`09:24.33`	`*** join/#debian covux (~kenoby@pD9EC72D2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:24.49`	`*** join/#debian Maliuta (~nikolai@CPE-144-137-147-15.qld.bigpond.net.au)`
`09:24.55`	`*** join/#debian Cyrus (~Cyrus@66.110.96.248)`
`09:25.11`	`Spods`	`i've being having this problem for a while now, maybe a month or two`
`09:25.18`	`npx`	`Spods, You might consider trying ATI's fireGL drivers (see if they support Xinerama)`
`09:25.43`	`*** join/#debian arkaine (~runev@213.161.236.77)`
`09:25.56`	`npx`	`I'm not 100% sure that the fireGL drivers even support your card, so be sure to read up on that before giving them a try`
`09:26.15`	`*** join/#debian kzar (~kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk)`
`09:26.19`	`Spods`	`npx: is there a location i can download them from, or is it packaged in debian somewhere`
`09:26.22`	`steve426f`	`anyone have experience with Dell Poweredge Perc 2c RAID? Debian install is not recognizing scsi hard drives`
`09:26.50`	`dondelelcaro`	`Spods: hrm... actually, it looks like someone thinks that the VideoRam thing actually causes the mirroring to happen`
`09:26.54`	`npx`	`Spods, I don't own any ATI cards, so I dunno. Google will provider answers for both of those questions in short order, I think.`
`09:27.06`	`dondelelcaro`	`steve426f: which installer are you using?`
`09:27.07`	`peterS`	`steve426f: what debian installer are you using?`
`09:27.11`	`kzar`	`im considering redoing my email server with a smaller hard drive and putting a few hard drives in a old 166 pc, i was wondering would a 166 be fast enough to be a fileserver with samba?`
`09:27.24`	`npx`	`dondelelcaro: I could see that being an issue if they were using some braindead mmap calls...but...well, nvm`
`09:27.47`	`steve426f`	`dondelelcaro/peterS: sarge-i386-netinst.iso (should be current)`
`09:27.54`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro: i'll remove it and try restarting the X server.`
`09:28.07`	`cafuego`	`kzar: That'll be fine.`
`09:28.07`	`peterS`	`steve426f: have you tried booting with the 'linux26' command?`
`09:28.14`	`steve426f`	`no`
`09:28.17`	`Spods`	`dondelelcaro: and now I wish I had run ircII instead of ksirc, i wouldn't have to leave the channel`
`09:28.20`	`kzar`	`cafuego: cool :D`
`09:28.28`	`peterS`	`steve426f: the 2.6 kernel might recognise more megaraid devices than the 2.4 kernel. it's worth a shot`
`09:28.29`	`npx`	`heheh /detach owns`
`09:28.29`	`Spods`	`brb, killing X`
`09:28.32`	`cafuego`	`steve426f: There are special boot kernels for prec2 boxes`
`09:28.34`	`cafuego`	`!perc`
`09:28.34`	`dpkg`	`perc is, like, a piece of shit`
`09:28.37`	`cafuego`	`!perc2`
`09:28.37`	`dpkg`	`i guess perc2 is a piece of shit`
`09:28.40`	`cafuego`	`grr`
`09:28.42`	`npx`	`hahah`
`09:28.44`	`kzar`	`i better get going actualy ive only got 1 day to do it all before everyone gets back home and complains about lack of email`
`09:28.47`	`sussudio`	`!factinfo perc`
`09:28.47`	`dpkg`	`perc -- created by MarNuke <marnuke@dsl027-174-062.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net> at Fri Aug 31 15:45:16 2001 (1190 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by cafuego, 12s ago.`
`09:28.50`	`Cyrus`	`i'm having a strange issue, i think it's the kernel, what's better?, download a newer image or compile my own kernel??`
`09:28.59`	`cafuego`	`!listvals perc2`
`09:29.01`	`dpkg`	`Factoid search of 'perc2' by value returned no results.`
`09:29.04`	`cafuego`	`!listvals perc`
`09:29.06`	`dpkg`	`Factoid search of 'perc' by value (15 shown; 33 total): moronmeter ;; monopoly ;; openlook ;; perc3 iso ;; realbeer ;; pragma ;; sentient ;; 32-bit color depth ;; firecracker ;; lamemeter ;; asci-red ;; tune2fs ;; grls ;; sturgeon's law ;; infiniband.`
`09:29.08`	`npx`	`Cyrus, I think if you have to ask, getting a new image would be better`
`09:29.13`	`peterS`	`Cyrus: the precompiled images are awfully nice`
`09:29.18`	`*** join/#debian hairy_potter (suraj@219.64.131.111)`
`09:29.19`	`cafuego`	`!perc3 iso`
`09:29.19`	`dpkg`	`i heard perc3 iso is <topdog> dell 1650 perc3 and gateway 975 server iso (same iso) is HERE http://delta-flyer.musc.edu/~brucej/`
`09:29.22`	`npx`	`Cyrus, I use debian images and have no issues at all`
`09:29.36`	`Cyrus`	`ok, i'll try it`
`09:30.10`	`Cyrus`	`it's automagic??, or need to move images around?`
`09:30.15`	`trueno`	`I am going to upgrade my laptop's HD. I am using the old HD and the new one is in other laptop. I will connect them via eth0. I have read the upgrade-disk mini-howto, but it doesn't say anything about what to do if you have ...`
`09:30.15`	`trueno`	`other OS. I would -still- like to keep a small, bootable partition for win98. How can I do it?`
`09:30.24`	`npx`	`I like the grls factoid =D`
`09:30.33`	`npx`	`Cyrus: Automagic man`
`09:30.47`	`Cyrus`	`i mean, the elilo part`
`09:30.48`	`npx`	`You will need to configure your bootloader, but that's it`
`09:30.51`	`*** join/#debian jazzmans (~arthur@ip68-224-7-31.lv.lv.cox.net)`
`09:30.57`	`kevix`	`steve426f, checkout : http://linux.dell.com/`
`09:31.30`	`npx`	`yah you'll have to modify lilo.conf to point to /boot/vmlinuz-$version-$arch (or /vmlinuz if you opt to create that symlink during the install)`
`09:31.38`	`npx`	`then just rerun lilo and you're off to the races`
`09:32.09`	`Cyrus`	`kernel-image-2.6.9-1-itanium-smp or kernel-image-2.6.9-1-mckinley-smp??`
`09:32.17`	`npx`	`err, I forgot about initrd. You'll have to point lilo at an initrd, the installer will explain it but if you have any more questions about that ask them when you're ready to mess with it.`
`09:32.22`	`steve426f`	`dpkg: thanks, I'll try that`
`09:32.22`	`dpkg`	`steve426f: de rien`
`09:32.22`	`*** join/#debian Spods (~root@203.59.187.57)`
`09:32.39`	`npx`	`I'm not sure what mckinley is, and I've never messed with an itanium, so I don't know.`
`09:32.44`	`kevix`	`truneno, always good to have a knoppix around just in case!`
`09:33.09`	`npx`	`trueno: the rescue image from the debian installer works wonders =)`
`09:33.11`	`trueno`	`npx -- Will it work with windows as well?`
`09:33.19`	`*** join/#debian jcook (~jcook@203.34.93.254)`
`09:33.34`	`Cyrus`	`npx: thanks, gonna google to find the difference`
`09:33.38`	*** join/#debian `UD (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)
`09:33.45`	`steve426f`	`kevix: thanks, looks like that has a lot of info`
`09:34.03`	`kevix`	`trueno, the last HD 'upgrade' was using dd if=/dev/oldhd of=/dev/newhd !`
`09:34.08`	`trueno`	`npx -- The thing is that this is a laptop and I have to scp the whole thing...`
`09:34.35`	`npx`	`trueno: I'm not altogether sure what the question is, sorry. You want to keep a small bootable win98 partition on your laptop, and you want to know if debian's installer will allow that?`
`09:34.44`	`Cyrus`	`npx`
`09:34.49`	`Cyrus`	`one more question`
`09:34.56`	`trueno`	`kevix: Does it copy the bootloader as well? Can it be done remotedly?`
`09:34.58`	`*** part/#debian Spods (~root@203.59.187.57)`
`09:35.00`	`*** join/#debian oskar_ (~oskar@lns-vlq-4-str-82-64-160-212.adsl.proxad.net)`
`09:35.06`	`npx`	`The answer is: yes. I'd probably install win98 first, then debian so it'll pick up the win98 partition and configure your bootloader appropriately`
`09:35.15`	`*** join/#debian FBarthel_ (~florisbar@186-229.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net)`
`09:35.39`	`*** join/#debian deadshell (~deadshell@ool-44c44e58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`09:35.40`	`hairy_potter`	`npx: and more so because windows wont respect your existing bootloader and it will overwrite anyway. so windows first, linux next.`
`09:35.47`	`npx`	`hairy_potter: nods`
`09:35.51`	`trueno`	`npx -- Just if the debian installer will keep/copy the master boot record belonging to the windows partition`
`09:36.02`	`hairy_potter`	`trueno: yes it will.`
`09:36.05`	`Cyrus`	`npx: i have a weird issue, i have almost nothing running, at boot there are 100mb used, and slowly grows to 450mb more or less`
`09:36.33`	`veruus`	`that's awesome`
`09:36.33`	`*** join/#debian Mardus (~martroota@pc65.host12.starman.ee)`
`09:36.35`	`Cyrus`	`there's no process using that ram, can i blame the kernel?`
`09:36.38`	`veruus`	`REINSTALL!!`
`09:36.40`	`veruus`	`:D:D:D`
`09:36.40`	`Mardus`	`Hi.`
`09:36.46`	`trueno`	`hairy_potter: Does it work when one of the HDs is in another laptop?`
`09:36.51`	`*** join/#debian zapalotta (~steve@router.h2o-gmbh.de)`
`09:36.53`	`zapalotta`	`hello`
`09:36.57`	`Mardus`	`I need some help with getting my system to connect through DHCP`
`09:37.01`	`npx`	`Cyrus: Is the 'used' memory claimed as cache?`
`09:37.06`	`hairy_potter`	`trueno: what?`
`09:37.16`	`veruus`	`yeah, could just be "used" and not used`
`09:37.17`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: dont ask. just ask.`
`09:37.33`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: actually, i wanted to type 'Dont ask to ask. Just ask'`
`09:37.39`	`Mardus`	`Yea, I got the point`
`09:37.40`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: anyway. go ahead.`
`09:37.44`	`zapalotta`	`I would like to install Sarge on a HP Netserver with a LSI MegaRaid Controller. Does anybody have an idea where to get either ther floppy image with the SCSI Driver or a netinstall iso for that?`
`09:37.47`	`npx`	`Cyrus: I mean - In the output of the 'free' command, is the majority of the used memory Cached?`
`09:37.53`	`hairy_potter`	`trueno: what?`
`09:38.04`	`hairy_potter`	`trueno: you want to 'back up' onto a 'different' harddrive?`
`09:38.26`	`*** join/#debian tdn (~tdn@port462.ds1-ynoe.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`09:38.35`	`hairy_potter`	`trueno: basically lilo will take a backup of the existing BootRecord into a file in /boot/something.XXXX`
`09:38.44`	`trueno`	`hairy_potter: I want to upgrade my HD. I am using a laptop, and the new one is in the new laptop`
`09:38.46`	`*** join/#debian tictac (~tictac@24.241.3.49)`
`09:38.47`	`hairy_potter`	`trueno: and once you boot into linux, copy this file over to your other laptop`
`09:38.48`	`*** join/#debian Spodzilla (~paul@203-59-187-57.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`09:38.53`	`Mardus`	`My NIC is a CNET200/600/650Eplus PnP (according to W98). As far as googling helped, modprobe dmfe didn't help. modprobe dummy did. Is it possible that an NIC could connecto the Internet with a dummy driver?`
`09:38.57`	`kevix`	`trueno, you 'could' take the 2.5"hd and get a 2.5=>3.5" dongle and hook them up to a big computer`
`09:39.00`	`Cyrus`	`sent you the output`
`09:39.02`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 732] by debhelper`
`09:39.08`	`Cyrus`	`npx: sent you the output`
`09:39.11`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: nope.`
`09:39.21`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: What does the dummy driver do then?`
`09:39.24`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: dummy is a, as the name suggests, 'dummy' driver`
`09:39.32`	`trueno`	`kevix -- Yes, that's the smart&comfortable solution, but I don't have much money :-(`
`09:39.36`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: its for creating virtual interfaces`
`09:39.41`	`Spods`	`npx, dondelelcaro, peterS: removing the VideoRam lines were the trick, it's now working properly`
`09:39.46`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: Ok.`
`09:39.50`	`npx`	`Spods: congrats`
`09:39.53`	`Spods`	`thanks for the hint dondelelcaro`
`09:39.53`	`trueno`	`hairy_potter: I am issuing a man lilo right now :-)`
`09:40.09`	`kevix`	`trueno, the dongle is like 5-10 $USD?`
`09:40.10`	`hairy_potter`	`trueno: thats teh best thing to do :)`
`09:40.20`	`*** join/#debian Cyrus (~Cyrus@66.110.96.248)`
`09:40.35`	`npx`	`Cyrus that output was with no services running?`
`09:40.37`	`Mardus`	`But modprobe dmfe doesn't work, although on the Internet this CNET NIC is attributed to a Davicom chip. My only problem is that the chip has a sticker on which says "Yes, Netware tested" or something like that.`
`09:40.37`	`Spods`	`dunno if it's something specific to the ATI drives, or just a general X/Xinerama quirkyness`
`09:40.55`	`Mardus`	`I haven't pulled the sticker off the chip yet.`
`09:40.55`	`npx`	`Spods, really, there's no telling =)`
`09:41.08`	`*** join/#debian tdn_ (tdn@port462.ds1-ynoe.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`09:41.14`	`*** join/#debian lobz (~lobz@ktv31-223-69.catv-pool.axelero.hu)`
`09:41.27`	`Cyrus`	`npx: just inetd, sshd and vsftpd`
`09:41.29`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: I used to have a sound card that claimed to be 'Yamaha OP3 SAX' but it turned out to be a 'C-Media PCI'`
`09:41.34`	`Spods`	`im gonna sign off now, going to work on adjusting the resolutions for the two different monitors. thanks guys.`
`09:41.37`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: what does /proc/pci say?`
`09:41.42`	`*** join/#debian soopertrooper456 (~soopertro@pD9E1F2BF.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:41.45`	`Mardus`	`I haven't tried that yet.`
`09:41.59`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: grep -i eth /proc/pci`
`09:42.14`	`kevix`	`trueno, I bought a usb HD. I mounted the usb drive and copyied. then took the drive out of the housing and swaped the drives!`
`09:42.15`	`trueno`	`kevix -- Didn't know they were that cheap... I am going to check whether those prices are the ones we have here in Spain...`
`09:42.38`	`Mardus`	`Ok, I'll return in ~10 minutes.`
`09:43.31`	`kevix`	`trueno, check here: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?sourceid=qIZ6QbGGqbGfAlqabnAd&invtid=HD-108`
`09:43.53`	`*** part/#debian soopertrooper456 (~soopertro@pD9E1F2BF.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:44.15`	`*** join/#debian Zarla (~fmb@gwenola.sceen.net)`
`09:44.43`	`kevix`	`trueno, so its 6 euros`
`09:45.06`	`kevix`	`opps, that should be 3 euros`
`09:45.17`	`*** join/#debian tdn_ (~tdn@port462.ds1-ynoe.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
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`09:45.53`	`*** join/#debian Jaz (Jazza@CWPP-p-144-134-229-161.prem.tmns.net.au)`
`09:46.12`	`*** join/#debian Gavrila (~Gavrila@213-140-6-102.fastres.net)`
`09:46.34`	`trueno`	`kevix: That makes things much better, actually`
`09:47.19`	`*** join/#debian Dr_O (~oweraon@80.46.89.83)`
`09:48.29`	`*** part/#debian mascht (martin@kexbox.org)`
`09:49.40`	`*** join/#debian jeronim_ (~jj@jeronim.wikipedia)`
`09:49.57`	`*** join/#debian gfsad_ (~xaoc@dsl-213-023-177-245.arcor-ip.net)`
`09:50.16`	`cafuego`	`!lart directhex\|work`
`09:50.18`	`*** join/#debian z36ra (~bruce@adsl-65-70-214-100.dsl.austtx.swbell.net)`
`09:50.22`	`*** join/#debian hemicuda (~marc@port-195-158-169-3.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`09:50.30`	`Cyrus`	`anybody running debian on a ia64?`
`09:50.30`	`*** join/#debian duch (~duch@nk-kawika.za.digi.pl)`
`09:50.45`	`*** part/#debian allemann888 (~soopertro@pD9E1F2BF.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:51.06`	`z36ra`	`CyrusPY: not me but whats the question?`
`09:51.11`	`helix`	`anyone know of decent video editing software? I need to lighten up this movie`
`09:51.27`	`cafuego`	`helix: cinellera`
`09:51.40`	`cafuego`	`helix: it wants to be Premiere`
`09:51.47`	`cafuego`	`except with a butt-ugly UI :-)`
`09:51.53`	`CyrusPY`	`have ram problem`
`09:51.57`	`helix`	`is that how it's spelled`
`09:52.13`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: is it good?`
`09:52.13`	`cafuego`	`'Cinelerra' I think`
`09:52.17`	`helix`	`ah`
`09:52.23`	`*** join/#debian danchev (~fun@83.97.27.87)`
`09:52.25`	`CyrusPY`	`it's running nothing -----> Mem: 501088 359120 141968 0 114112 172352`
`09:52.28`	`z36ra`	`CyrusPY: explain.`
`09:52.33`	`helix`	`it's not in debian >:(`
`09:52.39`	`CyrusPY`	`<PROTECTED>`
`09:52.41`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: Crashed on a set of 4+GB DV AVIs.`
`09:52.46`	`cafuego`	`helix: Correct, apt-get.org`
`09:53.05`	`*** join/#debian kild (~fran@20.Red-80-26-73.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`09:53.21`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: thats not good`
`09:53.22`	`CyrusPY`	`it's running nothing, and quickly shows 450MB of ram used`
`09:53.28`	`hairy_potter`	`CyrusPY: compile your kernel. Thats the best way to testing faulty memory, IMHO.`
`09:53.30`	`cafuego`	`CyrusPY: So?`
`09:53.56`	`duch`	`hi people`
`09:53.56`	`cafuego`	`CyrusPY: 100-odd MB for X and assorted crap, just about 200 as cache`
`09:53.59`	`helix`	`cafuego: thanks`
`09:54.00`	`hairy_potter`	`CyrusPY: but how did you conclude its a 'ram problem'?`
`09:54.03`	`helix`	`is the UI really that bad?`
`09:54.06`	`cafuego`	`CyrusPY: it's a user error.`
`09:54.15`	`CyrusPY`	`ok`
`09:54.16`	`cafuego`	`helix: I think it's not pretty. Too many colours.`
`09:54.22`	`*** join/#debian BenjNico (~benjnico@AGrenoble-203-1-12-34.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`09:54.39`	`CyrusPY`	`it's running nothing, no db, no X, just sshd`
`09:54.51`	`sussudio`	`in soviet russia (or stephen king novels), it gets you`
`09:54.53`	`kevix`	`helix, cinepaint - A motion picture image painting and retouching tool`
`09:54.53`	`CyrusPY`	`it's a new machine`
`09:54.54`	`hairy_potter`	`CyrusPY: it was running something?`
`09:54.56`	`cafuego`	`CyrusPY: Linux tried to sue as much ram as it cna, to make the system seem quicker. It will free up ram as it needs it`
`09:54.57`	`*** join/#debian poupou (~benjnico@AGrenoble-203-1-12-34.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`09:55.30`	`sussudio`	`cafuego: prins bernard?`
`09:55.44`	`helix`	`I got video of a guy spinning on his head but it's too dark :(`
`09:55.55`	`cafuego`	`sussudio: Nee, katscheet`
`09:56.05`	`*** join/#debian floate (psico@a81-84-96-82.netcabo.pt)`
`09:56.07`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: ive been experimenting with video on linux. used to windows. it's much harder on command line but im determined.`
`09:56.23`	`kevix`	`will someone babelfish that!`
`09:56.45`	`sussudio`	`!doe kevix`
`09:56.49`	`CyrusPY`	`cafuego: there's nothing to free, all process say 0.2% or so`
`09:57.06`	`hairy_potter`	`what does 'doe' do?`
`09:57.15`	`sussudio`	`hairy_potter: exactly`
`09:57.26`	`*** join/#debian jetscreamer (jetscreame@adsl-64-219-216-41.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)`
`09:57.39`	`*** join/#debian nevyn (~nevyn@c211-28-145-175.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au)`
`09:57.51`	`z36ra`	`CyrusPY: are you noticing a performance issue... slow?`
`09:58.02`	`helix`	`cafuego: ok, you're right, this UI is awful`
`09:58.30`	`davi`	`How to install the weater.xpi mozilla plugin ?`
`09:58.40`	`*** join/#debian blooe (~derek@HSE-Toronto-ppp3490208.sympatico.ca)`
`09:58.45`	`cafuego`	`helix: told ya`
`09:58.48`	`*** join/#debian rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user)`
`09:58.48`	`hairy_potter`	`davi: weater.xpi? what it doeth?`
`09:58.58`	`hairy_potter`	`davi: or did you mean weather.xpi? ;)`
`09:59.07`	`cafuego`	`kevix: 'cat fart'`
`09:59.13`	`helix`	`gee, and it doesn't even play my movie`
`09:59.18`	`jetscreamer`	`hairy_palmer`
`09:59.24`	`rdancer`	`localhost does not exist, try again`
`09:59.25`	`*** join/#debian ehamberg (~ehamberg@35.80-202-210.nextgentel.com)`
`09:59.35`	`rdancer`	^^ that is to the ``host localhost'' command
`09:59.40`	`davi`	`hairy_potter, weather.xpi`
`09:59.42`	`hairy_potter`	`rdancer: heh`
`09:59.59`	`kevix`	`helix, checkout : http://www.dynebolic.org/`
`10:00.00`	`peterS`	`rdancer: host doesn't check /etc/hosts and not all DNS domains include entries for 'localhost'. some do.`
`10:00.11`	`cafuego`	`rdancer: 'host' doesn't check /etc/hosts`
`10:00.13`	`*** join/#debian burnez (~jens@p5480F92E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:00.17`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: so what can cinellera do? convert avi to mpeg 1 2 and back? pack with divx? dvd9 2 5? etc?`
`10:00.28`	`peterS`	`cafuego: actually 'host' uses NSS on HP-UX. what a PITA that is. (:`
`10:00.29`	`rdancer`	`ping: unknown host localhost`
`10:00.37`	`rdancer`	`that's worse`
`10:00.42`	`hairy_potter`	`peterS!`
`10:00.44`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: it cna import DV Video and edit it much like Premiere does.`
`10:00.47`	`peterS`	`hairy_potter!`
`10:00.50`	`*** join/#debian Ugly_Duck (~ugly_duck@203-96-223-18.megasurfer.pcconnect.co.nz)`
`10:00.51`	`*** join/#debian fm_ (~fm@217.17.237.30)`
`10:00.55`	`*** join/#debian Mardus (~martroota@pc65.host12.starman.ee)`
`10:00.55`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: It's not your downloaded-movie-converter`
`10:00.59`	`hairy_potter`	`peterS: whats up?`
`10:01.00`	`Mardus`	`Am back.`
`10:01.01`	`peterS`	`rdancer: make sure your /etc/nsswitch.conf hosts: entry includes the word 'files'`
`10:01.07`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: any luck?`
`10:01.09`	`rdancer`	`peterS: yes`
`10:01.22`	`peterS`	`rdancer: and make sure localhost appears in /etc/hosts`
`10:01.28`	`rdancer`	`peterS: and /etc/hosts includes localhost`
`10:01.33`	`peterS`	`hairy_potter: shrug - same as ever, more or less. life is good. yourself?`
`10:01.38`	`kevix`	`z36ra, checkout: http://www.dynebolic.org/`
`10:01.39`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: /proc/pci retured with nothing. I am not sure if it's good or bad.`
`10:01.49`	`Mardus`	`* returned`
`10:01.49`	`hairy_potter`	`peterS: same with me`
`10:01.52`	`helix`	`kevix: why are you pimping that in here?`
`10:01.55`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: well?`
`10:02.03`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: what do you mean?`
`10:02.04`	`cafuego`	`s/in here //`
`10:02.05`	`rdancer`	`i edited /etc/hosts, and this happened. so i reverted the old /etc/hosts, and it didn't stop...`
`10:02.07`	`helix`	`I fail to see the relevance`
`10:02.12`	`helix`	`perhaps I'm confused..`
`10:02.14`	`peterS`	`rdancer: can you paste 'grep hosts: /etc/nsswitch.conf' and 'grep localhost /etc/hosts' in here?`
`10:02.16`	`kevix`	`helix, you were looking for a video solution?`
`10:02.19`	`helix`	`oh`
`10:02.22`	`helix`	`duh, I see it now`
`10:02.22`	`helix`	`sorry`
`10:02.24`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: did you fit your network card properly into the slot?`
`10:02.27`	`peterS`	`rdancer: just to make sure it's about what it should be`
`10:02.30`	`rdancer`	`hosts: files dns`
`10:02.32`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: i guess its a PCI card, no?`
`10:02.32`	`Mardus`	`I am using the network card right now.`
`10:02.44`	`rdancer`	`grep: /etc/hosts: Permission denied`
`10:02.45`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: I'm not familiar with premiere. I dont download many movies. I like collecting dvd's and some I like to back up just to get familiar with the tech. mostly i want to pipe tv signal in and burn to dvd.`
`10:02.48`	`rdancer`	`aha`
`10:02.51`	`peterS`	`rdancer: there's your problem (:`
`10:02.56`	`rdancer`	`here we go 8-)`
`10:03.00`	`kevix`	`helix, no HOT-BABE installed yet!`
`10:03.00`	`rdancer`	`thx`
`10:03.09`	`helix`	`rdancer: btw, I don't use fluxbox`
`10:03.12`	`helix`	`kevix: heh...`
`10:03.22`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: Premiere is used for sucking raw footage into a computer, editing it, processing it and pushing it out to broadcast.`
`10:03.24`	`*** join/#debian mina_linux_Tux (~dev_mina@82.201.241.26)`
`10:03.26`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: (or dvd)`
`10:03.27`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: I am using the network card right now, with W98 btw`
`10:03.46`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: is your kernel a custom compiled kernel?`
`10:03.47`	`z36ra`	`and thats a windows prog?`
`10:03.48`	`rdancer`	`helix: i remember reading your webpage & even viewing the screenshots 8-)`
`10:03.52`	`sussudio`	`http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/trekdrop.jpg < cafuego: dropje?`
`10:03.54`	`burnez`	`hi ppl!`
`10:03.54`	`*** join/#debian soulreaper (b@pD954A766.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:03.59`	`*** join/#debian Flying_Cow (Flying_Cow@c-e71be353.1141-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`10:04.00`	`helix`	`rdancer: that was openbox and I use ion3 now`
`10:04.11`	`z36ra`	`cafuego~~~^`
`10:04.21`	`kevix`	`helix, I was waiting for amaya to chime in on debian-devel. hope all is ok.`
`10:04.23`	`burnez`	`can someone tell me how2 rip a stream played by rhythmbox (a *.pls stream)`
`10:04.31`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: and thats a windows prog?`
`10:04.34`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: I don't know. I remember I installed it on a different machine, the kernel is i686. People here helped me out. That other machine had a RealTek NIC.`
`10:04.43`	`*** join/#debian jsm (~jsm@port945.ds1-arc.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`10:04.50`	`rdancer`	`helix: does openbox have tabs?`
`10:04.51`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: the kernel is NOT i686 :)`
`10:04.52`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: Yep. Used to be MacOS as well, but Final Cut Pro kinda competed it out of the market.`
`10:04.53`	`*** join/#debian niels_ (~niels@170.121-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)`
`10:04.54`	`rdancer`	`s/does/did/`
`10:04.55`	`*** part/#debian niels_ (~niels@170.121-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)`
`10:05.02`	`helix`	`rdancer: no, that's why I use ion.. :)`
`10:05.04`	`ehamberg`	`burnez: Open the pls file in a text editor.`
`10:05.06`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: kerel is 'linux-2.x.x'`
`10:05.07`	`z36ra`	`I see`
`10:05.12`	`*** join/#debian tdn (~tdn@port462.ds1-ynoe.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`10:05.14`	`cafuego`	`sussudio: Hmmnee, ik heb nog driedubbelzuote liggen hier`
`10:05.16`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: I know that and at the end it said i686`
`10:05.18`	`burnez`	`and then?`
`10:05.30`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: And then using the other the system did connect to the Internet.`
`10:05.35`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: can't you get to be on IRC from some other box and have this box to play with?`
`10:05.42`	`*** join/#debian sorahn (~sorahn@adsl-34-232-82.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`10:05.45`	`ehamberg`	`burnez: Feed the url to mplayer with -dumpstream or install streamripper.`
`10:05.46`	`peterS`	`cafuego: what kind?`
`10:05.47`	`npx`	`cafuego: whatchoogotmang?`
`10:05.51`	`*** join/#debian darthtux (~darthtux@ip68-229-252-11.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`10:05.53`	`rdancer`	helix: tabs on windows. it went like: ``i use customized rxvt + tabs provided by openbox''
`10:05.59`	`cafuego`	`Logitech MX700`
`10:06.01`	`mina_linux_Tux`	`someone here know about sarge and what if it support graphical interface ?`
`10:06.03`	`peterS`	`cafuego: oh, nice`
`10:06.05`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: because 'lspci' is another command you can try to find out what your netowrk card is actually. or try 'discover'...`
`10:06.11`	`helix`	`rdancer: I have no idea what you're talking about`
`10:06.13`	`jetscreamer`	`no there is no gui for sarge, sorry`
`10:06.23`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: To be here and use the other machine simultaneously means waiting for 1 hour. That's how much it takes for the cable modem to forget the last NIC's MAC address.`
`10:06.37`	`*** join/#debian redbier (~cthomas@adsl-69-152-197-174.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net)`
`10:06.41`	`z36ra`	`I ve been thinking about a amd64. CyrusPY, is it not running good?`
`10:06.45`	`peterS`	`rdancer: allegedly there exists a 'mrxvt' which has tabs`
`10:06.45`	`npx`	`Mardus: even if you cut the power? =)`
`10:06.45`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: whoa`
`10:06.45`	`*** join/#debian acollins (~acollins@81.168.0.206)`
`10:06.46`	`rdancer`	`helix: maybe it wasn't you then... is there any other helix out there?`
`10:06.47`	`peterS`	`rdancer: I haven't tried it`
`10:06.52`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: Mine runs just fine.`
`10:06.58`	`jetscreamer`	`mardus get a switch or router`
`10:07.00`	`rdancer`	`peterS: tabs are the business of the wm`
`10:07.06`	`npx`	`or a linux box with two nics`
`10:07.08`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: you dont have a VMWare or something? ;)`
`10:07.11`	`rdancer`	`peterS: anything else is a kludge at best`
`10:07.17`	`Mardus`	`npx: Even if I cut the power, then I'd have to wait 1 hour for that cable modem.`
`10:07.26`	`peterS`	`rdancer: you open 15 web browser windows, then?`
`10:07.27`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: cool. mobo?`
`10:07.28`	`kevix`	`peterS, whats the diff with say konsole or gnome-terminal (with tabs)`
`10:07.30`	`sorahn`	`how can i make it so that when my system boots it starts the dhcp-request (which it does 6 times) but keeps going with the boot instead of waiting to see if it gets an IP. Running Sarge`
`10:07.37`	`peterS`	`kevix: speed`
`10:07.40`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: Gigabyte K8NS Pro`
`10:07.43`	`Mardus`	`jetscreamer: I am dreaming of it btw.`
`10:07.51`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: No VMWare.`
`10:07.53`	`npx`	`hehe`
`10:07.54`	`cafuego`	`z36ra: Just do not try to use a Silicon Image ATA PCI card with it`
`10:08.05`	`npx`	`my XP's fan is enormous. sounds like a dump truck in 1st gear.`
`10:08.07`	`cafuego`	`hairy_potter: The cpu is fine, the ATX connector and the mobo fused`
`10:08.08`	`redbier`	`there is also an aterm variant with tabs`
`10:08.10`	`*** join/#debian Karhuton (~timo@YYYMMCMLXXVI.dsl.saunalahti.fi)`
`10:08.13`	`peterS`	`rdancer: I dunno, I just can't imagine using galeon in single-tab mode and opening new windows for a window manager tab solution`
`10:08.15`	`rdancer`	`peterS: kludge, as i said ;-)`
`10:08.24`	`kevix`	`peterS, just go to console and use alt-arrow-right!`
`10:08.33`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: try discover. if your card is really old, then it should well be supported.`
`10:08.37`	`peterS`	`kevix: nah, ctrl-a ctrl-n`
`10:08.40`	`*** join/#debian Omri1__ (~omri_@bzq-179-127-20.cust.bezeqint.net)`
`10:08.52`	`rdancer`	`peterS: it would behave as it does, just the tabs would be managed by the wm`
`10:09.02`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 743] by debhelper`
`10:09.03`	`peterS`	`rdancer: yes. I just don't think I would like it.`
`10:09.05`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: Windows's info can be quite misleading at times (atleast it has done to me once)`
`10:09.05`	`*** join/#debian soulreaper_ (b@pD954A751.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:09.07`	`peterS`	`rdancer: that's what you do, then?`
`10:09.14`	`kevix`	`peterS, for that matter, people love 'screen' (is that what you meant by ctrl-a)`
`10:09.25`	`peterS`	`kevix: yes, ctrl-a ctrl-n is how to cycle to the next window in screen`
`10:09.27`	`jsm`	`does anyone know how to simplyfi gmixer, I have about "400" different controls ??`
`10:09.38`	`burnez`	`worx great! thynk you guyz!`
`10:09.39`	`kevix`	`jsm, I use 'aumix'`
`10:09.40`	`hairy_potter`	`jsm: what card is it?`
`10:09.52`	`npx`	`I use kmix`
`10:09.53`	`helix`	`those sentences have to be an intentional joke`
`10:09.54`	`jsm`	`sb-live5.1`
`10:10.02`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: Well, the NIC is CNet, as I remember the text says on the card.`
`10:10.03`	`hairy_potter`	`jsm: same with me.`
`10:10.07`	`hairy_potter`	`jsm: I'm happy with alsamixer`
`10:10.09`	`rdancer`	`peterS: the address bar and buttonbar would get into way more than it does, but that's just because it's just horrible. no, i don't do it like this. because the apps don't support it.`
`10:10.16`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: Do I just have to type in discover?`
`10:10.18`	`npx`	`I <3 my sb-live5.1`
`10:10.27`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: you will have to install it if necessary`
`10:10.32`	`hairy_potter`	`npx: me too :)`
`10:10.34`	`peterS`	`rdancer: what apps don't support it? you said tabs are the business of the WM. that means you don't need any app support`
`10:10.41`	`jetscreamer`	`apt-get install discover`
`10:10.47`	`hairy_potter`	`npx: but I love my sb-live5.1 Not yours.`
`10:10.54`	`Omri1__`	`hi, is there a way to make debian more sloppy on security considerations? i.e. restrictions imposed on "users", etc.. I'm the only user of my computer and I find it a nuisance to switch between root and user all the time in order to perform simple tasks..`
`10:11.01`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: No, I remember discover is there. At least I've ls-d some directory and it had name discover there.`
`10:11.07`	`npx`	`hairy_potter: your sb-live loves me, though.`
`10:11.11`	`kevix`	`Mardus, discover will probe harware upon bootup and load kernel modules for you.`
`10:11.12`	`hairy_potter`	`Omri1__: use sudo`
`10:11.20`	`hairy_potter`	`Omri1__: with NOPASSWD for you`
`10:11.30`	`rdancer`	`peterS: e.g. firefox opens URI when you middle-click on the tab`
`10:11.31`	`z36ra`	`cafuego: what do you use? I have to say, Ive never heard of silicon image. I'll have to check that Gigabyte. i prefere abit and msi but anything via seems to run good. never do ali as long as I live.`
`10:11.34`	`jsm`	`hariy_potter: how do you know which controls does what I've played around with it, but cant find half the controls I need`
`10:11.41`	`trueno`	`Is "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward" still valid in 2.6 kernels to allow forwarding?`
`10:11.41`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter, kevix: Would /sbin/discover do?`
`10:11.43`	`npx`	`silicon image = SiS doesn't it?`
`10:11.43`	`*** join/#debian derril (derril@68.147.28.166)`
`10:11.44`	`*** join/#debian Virus (LateR@144.138.194.66)`
`10:11.46`	`*** join/#debian Netcraft (~Netcraft@APoitiers-151-1-12-145.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`10:11.52`	`peterS`	`rdancer: that's why tab support is not always best done in the WM`
`10:11.57`	`rdancer`	`peterS: and the integration of the tabs is much better than the integration of separate windows`
`10:12.00`	`Omri1__`	`hairy_potter: I'll check that out, thanks.`
`10:12.13`	`peterS`	`rdancer: because there are sometimes interesting things apps can do with tabs themselves`
`10:12.21`	`hairy_potter`	`npx: Silicon Integrated Systems`
`10:12.35`	`npx`	`ok my bad`
`10:12.37`	`hairy_potter`	`npx: silicon image could even be pr0n`
`10:12.39`	`kevix`	`Omri1__, if you want less security try ... windows!`
`10:12.42`	`rdancer`	`peterS: this is just a question of a simple protocol: middle click on the tab would send an X event of some sort to the app`
`10:12.44`	`npx`	`mmm, pr0n.. brb`
`10:12.44`	`cafuego`	`npx: Solicon Image = SiL`
`10:13.04`	`peterS`	`rdancer: it does. it sends a "middle button down" event.`
`10:13.06`	`Mardus`	`Suppose this CNET NIC doesn't have a Davicom chip, but the main chip has that Netware "yes" sticker on it. What do you think of getting that sticker off the chip?`
`10:13.19`	`Omri1__`	`kevix: I don't use linux for security, I use it for stability and its open source policy.`
`10:13.20`	`peterS`	`rdancer: followed relatively quickly by a "middle button up" event`
`10:13.22`	`rdancer`	`peterS: aha. well, so it's in place even.`
`10:13.23`	`Mardus`	`Because the sticker covers the whole chip.`
`10:13.26`	`rdancer`	`peterS: haha`
`10:13.29`	`z36ra`	`I must be behind the times. thats the way computers go though.`
`10:14.05`	`kevix`	`Omri1__, have you tried <flameproofsuite> ubuntu </flameproofsuite>!`
`10:14.22`	`Omri1__`	`kevix: what's that?`
`10:14.23`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: it depends on the warranty, etc.,.`
`10:14.41`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: and how good a "relationship" you have with your hardware supplier ;)`
`10:14.42`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: The sticker sez nowhere that if I pull it off, the warranty would be void.`
`10:14.46`	`rdancer`	`peterS: but the browsers are maybe a bordercase. maybe not. but the terminal emulator is an example of an app that should be tabbed by the wm (i know just konsole and the gnome terminal, of the apps that do it themselves)`
`10:14.59`	`kevix`	`Omri1__, check this out: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/`
`10:15.00`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: then maybe you should try to pull it off ;)`
`10:15.08`	`redbier`	`do manufacturers still put the netware compat sticker on their network cards? As if it matters anymore...`
`10:15.13`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: And the computer I use right now is 7/8 years old and I think the NIC is probably newer...`
`10:15.14`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: unless you are looking at a IC and calling it a Sticker ;)`
`10:15.20`	`Mardus`	`IC=?`
`10:15.25`	`peterS`	`rdancer: the terminal emulator is a much better case for the WM to handle tabs. because it's a simple app, so you're not wasting a lot of memory maintaining more than one. and because the UI is simple, so you aren't duplicating a big widget set`
`10:15.34`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: Integrated Circuit? (aka Chip)`
`10:15.42`	`*** join/#debian kaninchen (~kaninchen@x1611a.wh7.tu-dresden.de)`
`10:15.47`	`kaninchen`	`hi to all`
`10:15.49`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: No, I can pull the NIC off the board`
`10:15.59`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: btw, what kernel are you running on?`
`10:16.02`	`kaninchen`	`I got a problem with APM, we enabled apm in the kernel (ENABLE_APM=y) but apmd still returns with No APM support in kernel, what can we do ?`
`10:16.13`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: and what version of debian is this?`
`10:16.21`	`npx`	`peterS: I prefer the tabs in konsole to fluxbox + xterm - you can easily rename the tabs and KDE's session manager will save tabs for you`
`10:16.22`	`peterS`	`kaninchen: some BIOS revisions support APM, others do not`
`10:16.24`	`rdancer`	`peterS: you don't have to have a separate process for every window. firefox does not`
`10:16.25`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: 2.4, debian 3.0`
`10:16.28`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: I suggest you try one of those 'live CDs' to find out what hardware is what.`
`10:16.30`	`*** join/#debian [Granger] (Ecto@c-205f70d5.033-47-73746f7.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`10:16.33`	`Omri1__`	`kevix: never heared of it, is it a good system?`
`10:16.36`	`*** part/#debian darthtux (~darthtux@ip68-229-252-11.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`10:16.37`	`peterS`	`kaninchen: and if you run with multiple CPUs, either physically or via hyperthreading, then you cannot use APM in any case`
`10:16.49`	`*** join/#debian derril (derril@S01060050fc1e9040.cg.shawcable.net)`
`10:17.02`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: apt-get install discover. should do the trick.`
`10:17.04`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: Well, having a LiveCD is problematic at best, because the CDROM drive is ten years old and doesn't work since this year.`
`10:17.14`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: man`
`10:17.16`	`peterS`	`rdancer: there's still the matter of duplicating a boatload of widgets, all of which have to be redrawn when you change WM tabs`
`10:17.28`	`npx`	`seperate processes for every window versus using another toolkit on top of xlib is...well, about the same in my mind`
`10:17.32`	`kaninchen`	`peterS: well it's not a bios problem due to the fact that windows works with apm on that computer too, and this is just a laptop, no multiple cpu comp.`
`10:17.32`	`*** join/#debian sorahn_ (~sorahn@adsl-34-232-82.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`10:17.34`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: I hope atleast you are newer than your hardware ;)`
`10:17.37`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: I'm lucky that there's another CDROM drive that I could put into the current comp.`
`10:17.41`	`peterS`	`rdancer: and if you never feel the pain of this, then you have too much memory in your system`
`10:17.43`	`*** part/#debian sorahn (~sorahn@adsl-34-232-82.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`10:17.45`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: Oh, I'm 23.`
`10:18.02`	`peterS`	`kaninchen: you're sure Windows is using APM? as opposed to ACPI?`
`10:18.08`	`rdancer`	`peterS: well, that's why i like simple/no window decorations`
`10:18.20`	`Omri1__`	`hairy_potter: what's sudo, I haven't been able to find any man page about it`
`10:18.26`	`peterS`	`rdancer: so you're a 'links2 -g' user, then (:`
`10:18.35`	`kevix`	`Omri1__, its based on debian -- its made by debian people -- you can get a cd of it for free -shipped to your house`
`10:18.45`	`peterS`	`rdancer: no widgets, just web page (:`
`10:18.47`	`rdancer`	`peterS: links is an uberkludge`
`10:18.53`	`npx`	`links..works`
`10:18.56`	`npx`	`I like that in a browser.`
`10:18.59`	`rdancer`	`npx: nope`
`10:19.07`	`rdancer`	`!start a browser war`
`10:19.07`	`dpkg`	`Netscape supports standards better than Amaya!`
`10:19.09`	`npx`	`What other console browsers support frames?`
`10:19.10`	`hairy_potter`	`Omri1__: apt-get install sudo; man sudo`
`10:19.17`	`Omri1__`	`kevix, hmm, that's interesting. I'll look more into it.. thanks.`
`10:19.18`	`peterS`	`npx: w3m`
`10:19.22`	`rdancer`	`npx: w3m`
`10:19.23`	`Omri1__`	`hairy_potter: thanks`
`10:19.28`	`Mardus`	`hairy_potter: Whether that NIC is PCI, I don't know /likely not, because through W98's Device Manager I saw nowhere that there was any PCI written regarding the NIC.`
`10:19.32`	`npx`	`okay, never heard of w3m before`
`10:19.39`	`hairy_potter`	`dpkg: you have no idea that even the most primitive life forms on this planet donot use Amaya anymore`
`10:19.39`	`dpkg`	`You are moron #73, hairy_potter`
`10:19.46`	`hairy_potter`	`dpkg: I know`
`10:19.46`	`dpkg`	`He said he knows.`
`10:19.50`	`peterS`	`npx: I don't like it very much - I'm an elinks man - but lots of people do use it`
`10:20.06`	`rdancer`	`hairy_potter: amaya is a demo... noone ever used it ;-)`
`10:20.15`	`hairy_potter`	`rdancer: true`
`10:20.30`	`Omri1__`	`gotta go, thanks for all you help`
`10:20.40`	`z36ra`	`mardus: does the tab on the cable point up or down?`
`10:20.51`	`kevix`	`Omri1__, the idea is that everyone make mistakes using linux, every experts! so it makes sense to make destroying your computer a little inconvient!`
`10:20.51`	`rdancer`	`we once downloaded it and played with it for a while.`
`10:21.02`	`sorahn_`	`can someone help with dhcp requestion on boot`
`10:21.08`	`Mardus`	`z36bra: Which tab on -- the netcard cable?`
`10:21.10`	`*** join/#debian sKaBoy (~luogni@host207-165.pool8254.interbusiness.it)`
`10:21.11`	`rdancer`	`the demo pages were awsome, albeit the UI felt a bit fragile.`
`10:21.17`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, /etc/network/interfaces`
`10:21.39`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, 'man interfaces'`
`10:21.40`	`*** join/#debian akusarujin (~jeff@653477hfc54.tampabay.rr.com)`
`10:21.54`	`hairy_potter`	`Mardus: ah, now come to think of it! Given your hardware is so old, its probably an ISA card`
`10:21.55`	`z36ra`	`mardus: yes`
`10:22.18`	`Mardus`	`z36bra: What do you call a tab on a cable?`
`10:22.22`	`rdancer`	`now when we tried to browse something real, the whole page came out absolutely ricochet across the display, nothing was in the place it should have been... 8-)`
`10:22.39`	`hairy_potter`	`rdancer: amaya does magic`
`10:22.40`	`sorahn_`	`kevix: its not in there. at least what im trying to do`
`10:23.04`	`*** join/#debian morggin (~morggin@63-228-104-30.tukw.qwest.net)`
`10:23.06`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, do you want you network card to get an ip address with dhcp on boot?`
`10:23.09`	`*** join/#debian derril (derril@S01060050fc1e9040.cg.shawcable.net)`
`10:23.10`	`*** part/#debian floate (psico@a81-84-96-82.netcabo.pt)`
`10:23.23`	`z36ra`	`the tab thatn catches the cable into the jack. you know the thing you have to pinch to remove the cable... does it point up or down? if up then you have a pci nic.`
`10:23.55`	`*** join/#debian harry_po1pot (~xoz@p2060-ipad205souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp)`
`10:23.57`	`Mardus`	`z36ra: Aa, the plastic thingy that keeps the cable inside. Well, considering that the PC is a minitower, the tab points down.`
`10:24.01`	`sorahn_`	`kevix, yes, it already does that, but i want it to continue on with the boot after it starts to check for an IP, because sometimes at school i use wireless and i dont want to wait for it to try 6 times to connect to a cable`
`10:24.25`	`peterS`	`whoa. is harry_po1pot trying to be hairy_potter?`
`10:24.43`	`z36ra`	`Mardus: yes, it is a ISA nic.`
`10:24.53`	`Mardus`	`z36ra: Oh well.`
`10:25.02`	`*** join/#debian jvaughn (~jvaughn@4.12.115.123)`
`10:25.13`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, I think you want to check the /etc/network/interfaces for 'auto' and change it`
`10:25.19`	`*** join/#debian Sarge (~Sarge@Toronto-HSE-ppp3669646.sympatico.ca)`
`10:25.33`	`z36ra`	`mardus: what was the problem? can you not get it to work in linux?`
`10:25.42`	`Mardus`	`z36ra. Mhmh.`
`10:25.43`	`*** join/#debian kaninchen (~kaninchen@x1611a.wh7.tu-dresden.de)`
`10:25.43`	`Sarge`	`which notebooks feature shock-mounted drives besides the panasonic toughbooks?`
`10:26.01`	`kevix`	`Sarge, I think IBM mentioned it.`
`10:26.03`	`rdancer`	`Sarge: shock-mounted? wtf?`
`10:26.17`	`kaninchen`	`how can I use acpi to show the battery status or power to standby after 10 minutes ?`
`10:26.20`	`peterS`	`rdancer: presumably mounted with shock absorbers in the fasteners`
`10:26.31`	`hairy_potter`	`rdancer: it uses some space-age material and such`
`10:26.41`	`peterS`	`rdancer: so that the hard drive will survive if you drop the laptop while the drive is spinnign`
`10:26.44`	`hairy_potter`	`rdancer: very light. very strong. and stuff like that.`
`10:27.03`	`Mardus`	`z36ra: I can't get the NIC to work.`
`10:27.03`	`naim`	`does open mosixwork with 2.6 kernels ??`
`10:27.04`	`sorahn_`	`i want it on auto, because most of the time i have it plugged in. so i want it to connect, but i want it to start the connection attempt and then continue booting. i guess its called backgrounding. (still kinda new to linux`
`10:27.10`	`Mardus`	`z36ra: modprobe dmfe doesn't work.`
`10:27.16`	`Sarge`	`ibm does shock-mounted drives across the board or on certain models?`
`10:27.19`	`*** part/#debian Karhuton (~timo@YYYMMCMLXXVI.dsl.saunalahti.fi)`
`10:27.19`	`rich_`	`I heard ibm pc segment is for sale, so if you want one get one now, it includes the notbook department`
`10:27.27`	`z36ra`	`mardus: it takes more work with isa cards but it can be done`
`10:27.29`	`rdancer`	`eh, this drive has survived few drops and quite a few hot-unplugs/replugs`
`10:27.29`	`kevix`	`kaninchen, try 'apt-cache search acpi'`
`10:28.11`	`rdancer`	`it has a small shock-absorbing pad between the harddrive and the tray`
`10:28.38`	`rdancer`	`naim: google`
`10:28.51`	`*** join/#debian jonesy (~andrew@CPE-61-9-202-228.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`10:29.02`	`*** join/#debian Sarge (~Sarge@Toronto-HSE-ppp3669646.sympatico.ca)`
`10:29.04`	`*** join/#debian _eugenesan_ (Miranda@bzq-219-189-175.cablep.bezeqint.net)`
`10:29.04`	`*** mode/#debian [+l 733] by debhelper`
`10:29.05`	`sorahn_`	`also new to xchat, is there an easy way to make it put someones name at the begenning of the posts without typing it`
`10:29.07`	`peterS`	`rdancer: presumably that's what's being discussed`
`10:29.11`	`naim`	`rdancer, its doesnt .. checked the FAQ`
`10:29.13`	`*** join/#debian baronsamedi (~brett@82-42-145-141.cable.ubr01.sprt.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`10:29.28`	`rdancer`	`naim: what's the alternative?`
`10:29.30`	`naim`	`rdancer, any other suggestion ?`
`10:29.31`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, it has 'tab' completion like bash!`
`10:29.38`	`_eugenesan_`	`hi all, anyone working on sparc64 here?`
`10:29.41`	`sorahn_`	`kevix, i see`
`10:29.41`	`naim`	`arggg`
`10:29.43`	`sarge111`	`lg has been designing and producing the recent ibm thinkpads`
`10:29.47`	`sarge111`	`from what i have gathered`
`10:29.49`	`z36ra`	`searching`
`10:29.57`	`rich_`	`sorahn_ easiest way is double-left click on their name then middle click on the place you want it typed`
`10:29.58`	`rdancer`	`naim: the faq should state the alternative`
`10:29.59`	`sarge111`	`because lg has been prohibited from unveiling its own line in the usa`
`10:30.01`	`rdancer`	`!wayttd naim`
`10:30.03`	`dpkg`	`What Are You Trying To Do, naim?`
`10:30.08`	`*** join/#debian jag (~jag@cable195a014.usuarios.retecal.es)`
`10:30.11`	`*** join/#debian HackRip (HackRip@ip-7.net-81-220-227.henin.rev.numericable.fr)`
`10:30.15`	`Mardus`	`z36ra: I'm searching about the NIC.`
`10:30.19`	`sarge111`	`do the ibm thinkpads say made in china these days?`
`10:30.28`	`sorahn_`	`kevix, well, any way, what i am trying to get the boot to do is background the dhcp requests and continue booting as it searches for an IP`
`10:30.29`	`kevix`	`sarge111, that the us idea of 'competition'!`
`10:30.30`	`*** part/#debian HackRip (HackRip@ip-7.net-81-220-227.henin.rev.numericable.fr)`
`10:31.05`	`rdancer`	`sarge111: prohibited?`
`10:31.08`	`*** join/#debian linuxfreck (~chris@pD9541A08.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:31.23`	`naim`	`rdancer, no serious .. the faq dont say nothing about 2.6 users`
`10:31.36`	`hairy_potter`	`sarge111: so obtaining thinkpads has become like obtaining psychotropic substances?`
`10:31.43`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, if you dont have the eth0 'auto' then you can bring up the eth0 later!`
`10:32.15`	`sorahn_`	`kevix, i have it on auto`
`10:32.29`	`rdancer`	`!fgi naim openmosix "2.6"`
`10:32.30`	`dpkg`	`naim: http://fuckinggoogleit.com/search?query=openmosix "2.6"`
`10:32.47`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, do you object to it not being done on boot up and doing it manually?`
`10:32.51`	`rdancer`	`hmm, this doesn't look like a valid url, does it?`
`10:32.52`	`sarge111`	`Within North America the LG X-Note LM50 notebook is only available in Canada at the moment, LG has a non-compete with IBM in the US until 2005`
`10:33.07`	`hairy_potter`	`sarge111: whoa`
`10:33.14`	`sorahn_`	`kevix, i want it to be auto, i just dont want the boot process to have to wait for it to search.`
`10:33.17`	`hairy_potter`	`sarge111: so this is like a way of monopoly?`
`10:33.25`	`*** join/#debian Lizard (~SiB@AMontsouris-152-1-17-19.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`10:33.40`	`sarge111`	`lg has been producing notebooks for ibm`
`10:33.43`	`sarge111`	`from what i understand`
`10:33.47`	`kevix`	`sarge111, so I guess I "couldn't" buy it from an e-store in canada!`
`10:33.57`	`hairy_potter`	`sarge111: ah ok`
`10:33.57`	`rdancer`	`hairy_potter: more like a business contract, from what sarge111 says`
`10:34.24`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, sure if you hack the bootup scripts to check if the wifi card is inserted!`
`10:34.39`	`sarge111`	`this is why i asked about where ibm thinkpads are manufactured these days.`
`10:34.45`	`sarge111`	`which country.`
`10:34.59`	`*** join/#debian Sarvok (~chatzilla@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-18-119.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`10:35.00`	`sarge111`	`i do not know what it says, but i suspect "made in china."`
`10:35.04`	`sorahn_`	`kevix, its an internel wifi, but i want it to do this everytime`
`10:35.15`	`hairy_potter`	`sorahn_: did you try laptop-net?`
`10:35.21`	`hairy_potter`	`sorahn_: apt-get install laptop-net`
`10:35.26`	`hairy_potter`	`sorahn_: I haven't used it though`
`10:35.32`	`*** join/#debian Zap-W (zapw@80.178.77.175.forward.012.net.il)`
`10:35.33`	`sorahn_`	`hairy_potter, what does it do`
`10:35.37`	`sarge111`	`ibm has been eyeing its exit from the hardware market for some time.`
`10:35.45`	`Zap-W`	`what switches should i pass to tar to make a system backup`
`10:36.01`	`Sarvok`	`A votre avi c koi le mieux un P II 266 Mhz MMX ou un Celeron 533 Mhz ? Est ce que je peux mettre les deux en meme temps sur une mobo qui a les deux slots ?`
`10:36.05`	`Sarvok`	`sorry`
`10:36.07`	`sarge111`	`it knew about the end of the thinkpad line when it called lg in, i believe.`
`10:36.14`	`Sarvok`	`i thank i was in the debian-fr forum ^^`
`10:36.41`	`sorahn_`	`hairy_potter, its something that i saw the knoppix boot do. it was loading all the stuff then when it got to searching for the IP is said *Backgrounding, and kept going with the boot instead of waiting to see if it got an IP`
`10:36.47`	`kevix`	`sorahn_, sounds like a simple hack --- check ifconfig -- configure wifi -- if no wifi --- config eth0`
`10:36.53`	`Sarvok`	`According to you, what the better is ? A P II 2566 Mhz MMX or a Celeron 533 Mhz ? and Can i use the two CPU on a motherboard which has the two slot ?`
`10:37.05`	`sarge111`	`the thinkpad used to be a grade A product. now, only the very top-end, t42 series, is the thinkpad vets are used to.`
`10:37.08`	`hairy_potter`	`sorahn_: maybe try editing /etc/init.d/network`