| 00:00.22 | ws2k33 | jordigh do u think that is possible? |
| 00:00.28 | Wyzard | and possibly problematic because the PV would disappear at every reboot, but the metadata saved in /etc/lvm would still refer to it |
| 00:00.47 | gionnico | ok.. uhm doesn't look weird to me .. it's like you have an empty device. what you do first? you format |
| 00:00.49 | JordiGH | ws2k33: When you type "u" instead of "u", I think you're less intelligent than you probably are. |
| 00:00.54 | JordiGH | instead of "you". |
| 00:01.16 | gionnico | Wyzard: you should make a shutdown script. or edit the swapoff script |
| 00:01.28 | Wyzard | to delete the VG? |
| 00:01.32 | gionnico | Wyzard: yes |
| 00:01.45 | gionnico | or delete /etc/lvm on boot to be sure |
| 00:01.58 | gionnico | -that- would be a little weird, yes. |
| 00:02.03 | ws2k33 | sorry i think i should say you. |
| 00:02.10 | ws2k33 | its because my english is bad |
| 00:02.16 | ws2k33 | i forget it all the time, no offence. |
| 00:02.21 | Wyzard | Well, the machine already uses LVM for other purposes -- in fact, the whole encrypted device lives in an LV -- so I certainly don't want to delete /etc/lvm |
| 00:02.30 | ws2k33 | in my langwich u is more pollied then you. |
| 00:03.05 | Wyzard | The shutdown script could work, but using LVM seems awkward and heavyweight -- an entire VG living in an encrypted LV of another VG |
| 00:03.16 | gionnico | Wyzard: ok you got the point. delete in /etc/lvm garbage. if LVM can't ignore garbage by itself |
| 00:03.19 | ws2k33 | so then its the other way around.:) . uhmm do you think anything like that is possible? |
| 00:03.53 | Wyzard | better to just use dmsetup directly, with a custom table, to map the first gigabyte to one device, the second gigabyte to another device, etc. |
| 00:03.55 | gionnico | ws2k33: uhm .. you can have a backup server telling "sorry the service is down", sure |
| 00:04.33 | ws2k33 | yeah i know that but thats not what i'm looking for. |
| 00:04.37 | gionnico | ws2k33: but what you want is the same RAM data in 2 different servers.. that no possible, no. but you can make some sync and pass some messages from servers, this is possible |
| 00:05.17 | ws2k33 | or something that when the server is downt he ram file will be transfered and the server stays online. |
| 00:05.31 | ws2k33 | if it have a lagg for some seconds or so thats not a problem |
| 00:05.31 | gionnico | if the server goes down, its ram is gone |
| 00:05.38 | ws2k33 | i know. |
| 00:05.45 | Wyzard | ws2k33: Some virtualization software lets you move running VMs between machines |
| 00:05.55 | ws2k33 | esx? |
| 00:05.59 | Wyzard | so if you need to shut one machine down, you move its VMs elsewhere first |
| 00:06.02 | Wyzard | ESX can do it |
| 00:06.21 | ws2k33 | but its not redunt? |
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| 00:06.28 | ws2k33 | so when one goes machine goes down |
| 00:06.32 | ws2k33 | the vm stays up? |
| 00:06.43 | Wyzard | It might even be able to provide some sort of redundancy, by periodically transferring snapshots of the RAM like it would during a live migration |
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| 00:07.02 | Wyzard | but keeping the RAM *continuously* up-to-date would require too much bandwidth |
| 00:07.06 | xindz | Is it possible to use two cores or more when deleting files with rm ? |
| 00:07.15 | gionnico | Wyzard: about cryptsetup, but official cryptsetup doesnt support seek/offset, you need a patch i think |
| 00:07.24 | gionnico | or use files |
| 00:07.31 | gionnico | dd if=/dev/zero |
| 00:07.41 | gionnico | create 4 files in that space then use swapfile |
| 00:07.46 | Wyzard | xindz: No, that wouldn't make any sense because deleting a file isn't a CPU activity; there's no point using multiple threads |
| 00:08.08 | ws2k33 | hmm. |
| 00:08.11 | Wyzard | gionnico: What I was thinking was, create a single crypt mapping -- let's say the plaintext is /dev/mapper/plaintext and it's 4GB |
| 00:08.29 | ws2k33 | but there is no sellusion to transe a whole proces as is |
| 00:08.30 | gionnico | xindz: you can use 2 hard disks ;) |
| 00:08.32 | ws2k33 | to antoher server |
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| 00:08.38 | Wyzard | gionnico: then make more mappings based on that, using custom dmsetup tables: /dev/mapper/plaintext1 is the first gigabyte of /dev/mapper/plaintext, /dev/mapper/plaintext2 is the second gigabyte, etc. |
| 00:09.06 | gionnico | ahh ok fine |
| 00:09.14 | xindz | Wyzard Ok why does it take so long time? |
| 00:09.29 | gionnico | xindz: it usually doesn't but depends on filesystem |
| 00:09.30 | Wyzard | xindz: Is it a large file on an ext3 filesystem? |
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| 00:09.48 | xindz | yeah, files about 24GB and ext3 |
| 00:09.58 | xindz | plus crypt |
| 00:10.14 | gionnico | Wyzard: see? no extent makes difference! |
| 00:10.24 | Wyzard | xindz: ext3 keeps track of files by recording every 4k block in a big list |
| 00:10.44 | gionnico | and the list is sparse |
| 00:10.56 | Wyzard | xindz: For a large file, it takes time for the disk to overwrite that whole block list to mark all the blocks as free |
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| 00:11.49 | Wyzard | xindz: ext4 is much faster at deleting large files because it allocates them in much larger chunks (up to 256MB) so there are fewer entries in the list that need to be modified when the file is deleted |
| 00:13.02 | xindz | Wyzard Ok, Then I learned something new today :). Is it possible to go from ext3 to ext4 without damage saved data? |
| 00:13.33 | gionnico | xindz: it's possible but you can't get extents. that's the feature that speeds up your case |
| 00:13.42 | Wyzard | yes, but it won't change how your existing files are allocated |
| 00:13.52 | Wyzard | They'll still use the big list of 4k blocks |
| 00:13.52 | gionnico | or better you get that feature only for new files |
| 00:14.16 | Wyzard | You could convert to ext4, then go through the filesystem and make a copy of each file, then delete the original |
| 00:14.55 | gionnico | Wyzard: then better: make a copy of each file elsewhere, make ext4 from scratch, move everything |
| 00:14.56 | Wyzard | but you're probably better off copying all the files off the drive, reformatting as ext4, then copying the files back |
| 00:15.09 | gionnico | shuts up Wyzard says same things |
| 00:15.13 | Wyzard | hehe |
| 00:15.41 | Wyzard | Someday there's supposed to be an ext4 defragmenter, which would be able to reallocate existing files using extents (so the large files are quicker to delete) |
| 00:15.43 | Wyzard | but it doesn't exist yet |
| 00:16.13 | gionnico | it does, alpha stage! |
| 00:16.19 | gionnico | knows more than Wyzard :p |
| 00:17.08 | xindz | Ok, next time i will go for ext4 instead of 3 :) |
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| 00:18.08 | simonlnu | it's in git at kernel.org |
| 00:18.25 | simonlnu | works according to dutchfish |
| 00:18.32 | s1m | hmm , still unable to obtain some packages,software. .. E: Unable to locate package awn |
| 00:18.40 | simonlnu | !search |
| 00:18.40 | dpkg | Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. 'apt-cache search regex', or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): 'dpkg -S /bin/foo', <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and <help find> (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See http://wiki.debian.org/WhereIsIt and ask me about <bot help>. See also <debtags>. |
| 00:18.59 | simonlnu | refer to: apt-cache, apt-file ^^ |
| 00:19.03 | s1m | http://paste.debian.net/118858/ |
| 00:20.39 | simonlnu | you shouldn't have experimental in there at all |
| 00:21.02 | s1m | i've added to get pastebinit, thats all. |
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| 00:21.11 | simonlnu | not as a 'deb' anyway |
| 00:21.24 | simonlnu | !backports |
| 00:21.24 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>, <volatile>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 00:21.46 | Wyzard | I don't think I'd want to use an alpha-quality defragmenter though :-) |
| 00:22.06 | simonlnu | no. not for anything serious. |
| 00:22.35 | Wyzard | We'll all have moved to btrfs by the time ext4defrag is ready |
| 00:23.04 | gionnico | lots of servers still use ext2 |
| 00:23.49 | s1m | so , is here something else wrong in my sources.list ? |
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| 00:24.35 | s1m | or if there are some missing. |
| 00:24.48 | simonlnu | s1m: well, the "contrib non-free" can be put with the main in the previous lines. save you a line or 2 |
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| 00:25.05 | simonlnu | like "squeeze main contrib non-free" |
| 00:25.10 | Wyzard | gionnico: then they'll move to btrfs whenever they get off of ext2, and skip ext4 entirely :-P |
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| 00:25.31 | s1m | simonlnu: alright. |
| 00:25.36 | simonlnu | makes it clearer (for me anyway) |
| 00:26.13 | simonlnu | why do you have the squeeze-updates with deb-src only? |
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| 00:27.56 | s1m | I don't know , i've just noticed. |
| 00:28.30 | mrdeb | does anyone know why you get an input output error when trying to dd an audio disc to an iso file |
| 00:29.33 | mrdeb | pls |
| 00:30.05 | dym | unreadable disc sectors? |
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| 00:32.06 | mrdeb | dym: it works with a program. it reads it |
| 00:32.12 | Wyzard | mrdeb: Audio tracks are different from data tracks -- they use a different physical sector format |
| 00:32.27 | mrdeb | Wyzard: ok. how do i copy the disc into iso or bin/cue |
| 00:32.40 | Wyzard | mrdeb: You can't read them as normal data afaik; you need to use a CD-ripping program |
| 00:32.51 | mrdeb | Wyzard: what command |
| 00:33.33 | Wyzard | Take a look at the cdrdao package |
| 00:33.33 | mrdeb | i installed xfburn, but it doesnt hvae a ripping feature? |
| 00:33.42 | Wyzard | if you want a bin/cue |
| 00:33.55 | Wyzard | For just ripping audio tracks as .wav files or whatever, use cdparanoia or some GUI frontend for it |
| 00:34.14 | Wyzard | An .iso file for an audio CD doesn't make sense, btw |
| 00:34.19 | mrdeb | so cdrdao |
| 00:34.21 | mrdeb | ok |
| 00:34.41 | mrdeb | Wyzard: it is an original game disc that is seen as an audio one |
| 00:34.45 | Wyzard | cdrdao read-cd, and then use toc2cue (included in the cdrdao package) to convert cdrdao's toc-file into a cue-file |
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| 00:35.02 | mrdeb | ok |
| 00:35.46 | Wyzard | hmm, if it's a normal mixed-mode CD with a data track and some audio tracks, cdrdao should be able to handle that |
| 00:35.54 | mrdeb | yes mixed. ok |
| 00:36.02 | Wyzard | If it's some weird copy-protected format, it may not work |
| 00:36.08 | mrdeb | no it's not |
| 00:36.17 | Wyzard | CD copy protection does all sorts of weird things |
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| 00:36.55 | mrdeb | does cdrdao work on dvds |
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| 00:39.44 | mrdeb | it is working, Wyzard |
| 00:40.26 | mrdeb | can you use cdrdao to burn files to a disc too, without need for a gui |
| 00:40.49 | Wyzard | yes |
| 00:41.01 | mrdeb | so i can remove xfburn |
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| 00:51.30 | mrdeb | very efficient. not gui needed. thank you |
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| 00:52.10 | McAfreak | lots of part/join... |
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| 00:53.41 | MrFrood | McAfreak: use a filter |
| 00:54.19 | abdelkhalak | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:54.19 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>, <volatile>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 00:55.03 | MrFrood | !tell abdelkhalak about self tell |
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| 00:56.07 | McAfreak | MrFrood: i know that much |
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| 01:02.20 | abdelkhalak | how to read local mail from root@localhost? |
| 01:04.29 | MrFrood | abdelkhalak: su -c mail |
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| 01:06.13 | abdelkhalak | MrFrood: thank you |
| 01:07.10 | woonix | abdelkhalak: you can also edit /etc/aliases to send future root mail to some other place |
| 01:07.16 | MrFrood | abdelkhalak: man mailx for more details |
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| 01:08.28 | abdelkhalak | woonix: thanks |
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| 02:06.30 | Toidi | Is there a way to find the best mirror for my system? |
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| 02:11.50 | MrFrood | Toidi: apt-spy |
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| 02:15.03 | Toidi | MrFrood, Happen to know what mirror list I can use? using http://www.debian.org/mirror/list as the url isn't working |
| 02:15.25 | Angstrom_ | I'm trying to run linphone and get this error:(linphone-3:18727): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_set_valist: object class `GtkSettings' has no property named `gtk-menu-images' |
| 02:15.41 | Angstrom_ | linphone-3 was working before... Why wouldn't it work now? This is in squeeze. |
| 02:16.18 | Angstrom_ | yo |
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| 02:17.35 | Toidi | nvm |
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| 02:28.58 | Toidi | my connection was last to an ssh server during an installation. Is it possible to resume the install? |
| 02:29.43 | abdelkhalak | xorg.conf does not exist in Squeeze!! where can I find the config file? |
| 02:30.16 | abdelkhalak | !xorgconf |
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| 02:30.57 | Kamping_Kaiser | create it if/when you need it |
| 02:31.40 | Kamping_Kaiser | fwiw, xserver-xorg and nvidia-glx both provide example files |
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| 02:33.25 | rubbity | Rubbity dickass |
| 02:33.26 | abdelkhalak | Kamping_Kaiser: i cant risk overriding the default working config file that i dont know where!! |
| 02:33.30 | rubbity | oops |
| 02:33.32 | rubbity | sorry |
| 02:34.08 | rubbity | I meant to go: |
| 02:34.13 | rubbity | The plant then took the guano molecule into it's root... going up it's stalk or shoot it deftly |
| 02:34.14 | rubbity | turned into a pollen grain, swept up by a bee taking it to it's nest |
| 02:34.15 | rubbity | The nest gave birth to a larvae, which turned into a pupae, and finally into an adult bee |
| 02:34.16 | rubbity | The molecule went into the bee's stinger during growth. Then some kid got stung... |
| 02:34.17 | rubbity | it really hurts when it comes from bird shit |
| 02:34.18 | rubbity | You fug ug fagheads. |
| 02:34.20 | rubbity | Wear your baseball hat backwards with an ass on the back and we'll call you asshat |
| 02:34.21 | rubbity | Some of the time I ordinarily don't know. It all begins with the letter A. Fork, spoon, knife, it's all at the table. |
| 02:34.23 | Kamping_Kaiser | !ops rubbity spamming |
| 02:34.23 | rubbity | The mailman comes to each of us in time. |
| 02:34.23 | dpkg | Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel, themill: kamping_kaiser complains about: rubbity spamming |
| 02:34.24 | rubbity | you fug dug fargnargs |
| 02:34.24 | rubbity | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:34.25 | rubbity | HEP TEP ROG'S MY KICK ASS PHRASE, Boy my bestest friend |
| 02:34.26 | rubbity | Has Hes... Hogan's Heroes... Has Hes... Hogan's Heroes... Has Hes... Hogan's Heroes... Has Hes... Hogan's Heroes... Has Hes... Hogan's Heroes... Has Hes... Hogan's Heroes... |
| 02:34.27 | rubbity | Where's Waldo... Where's Osama Bin Laden... there is no difference. |
| 02:34.29 | rubbity | Nothing but a bunch of druggie channels go do drugs tomorrow it's not swiped. |
| 02:34.30 | rubbity | The grass is green and I"m not WHITE |
| 02:34.30 | *** kick/#debian [rubbity!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste) |
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| 02:34.39 | Kamping_Kaiser | abdelkhalak: vi /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg/examples/xorg.conf |
| 02:34.47 | Kamping_Kaiser | read the first 4 lines |
| 02:34.58 | abdelkhalak | Kamping_Kaiser: thank you |
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| 02:35.19 | Kamping_Kaiser | abdelkhalak: the file is no longer generated, so put it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf any sections you need to override |
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| 02:37.17 | abdelkhalak | Kamping_Kaiser: where is the default working one? |
| 02:37.54 | Angstrom_ | I'm trying to run linphone and get this error:(linphone-3:18727): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_set_valist: object class `GtkSettings' has no property named `gtk-menu-images' Why wouldn't it work after a few runs and reboots? This is in squeeze... |
| 02:38.29 | Kamping_Kaiser | abdelkhalak: not sure i understand. there isn't one... xorg works out what it needs to run, and runs |
| 02:39.07 | s1m | abdelkhalak: see http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42932 |
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| 02:40.35 | Arrick | hey guys/gals... I have a question.. I have been trying to get this request_tracker3.8 software running for a few days now, and I cant seem to get past what you see on http://www.arrick.org/rt/ ... I've tried to follow everything I've read in the installation manual, but it seems to not be working for me. |
| 02:40.38 | Arrick | any ideas? |
| 02:41.09 | Angstrom_ | I'm trying to run linphone and get this error:(linphone-3:18727): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_set_valist: object class `GtkSettings' has no property named `gtk-menu-images' Why wouldn't it work after a few runs and reboots? This is in squeeze... |
| 02:41.31 | Kamping_Kaiser | Arrick: after you apt-get install request-tracker3.8 what error do you have? |
| 02:41.46 | Arrick | Kamping_Kaiser, what you see on the site I posted. |
| 02:41.56 | Arrick | i'm stuck in configuration. |
| 02:42.08 | Arrick | no errors, just not configured to run it for some reason |
| 02:42.12 | Wyzard | Arrick: It tells you what to do next |
| 02:42.31 | Arrick | Wyzard, yeah, I've tried adding it in, and then it still doesnt work. |
| 02:42.45 | Wyzard | Looks like it's working now |
| 02:42.48 | Wyzard | oh, nm |
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| 02:43.03 | Arrick | it auto forwards when it isnt setup right to their helpdesk, lol |
| 02:43.08 | Wyzard | The page refreshed and changed, but it must've just been taking a really long time to load a stylesheet or something |
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| 02:43.27 | Wyzard | oh, I see |
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| 02:44.04 | Arrick | The next step is to edit your webserver's configuration file to instruct it to use RT's mod_perl, FastCGI or SpeedyCGI handler is what I have tried, each individually, and I cant seem to get it to work. |
| 02:44.10 | Wyzard | Anyway, I'm not familiar with RT, but to get help you'll need to provide more information about what configuration you've done on your web server to make it run that CGI script |
| 02:44.37 | Arrick | I have apache2, until the other day it was setup with defaults, running on squeeze. |
| 02:44.49 | Arrick | console only install |
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| 02:46.05 | Wyzard | and what did you change in its config file to make it run the RT server? |
| 02:46.34 | Arrick | one sec, im trying to pull up my changes |
| 02:46.40 | Angstrom_ | I'm trying to run linphone and get this error:(linphone-3:18727): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_set_valist: object class `GtkSettings' has no property named `gtk-menu-images' Why wouldn't it work after a few runs and reboots? This is in squeeze... |
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| 02:48.53 | Arrick | Wyzard, I have added Alias /rt /usr/share/request-tracker3.8/html |
| 02:48.53 | Arrick | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:49.24 | Wyzard | That gets you the "you're almost there" page, presumably |
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| 02:49.30 | Arrick | right |
| 02:49.51 | Angstrom_ | I'm trying to run linphone and get this error:(linphone-3:18727): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_set_valist: object class `GtkSettings' has no property named `gtk-menu-images' Why wouldn't it work after a few runs and reboots? This is in squeeze... |
| 02:49.54 | Wyzard | Any other changes? |
| 02:49.58 | Angstrom_ | yes |
| 02:50.17 | Wyzard | Angstrom_: That was for Arrick |
| 02:50.18 | Arrick | not yet, I'm kinda lost trying to follow their instructions |
| 02:50.21 | Angstrom_ | here i'll exec -o for you |
| 02:50.24 | Angstrom_ | (linphone-3:21115): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_set_valist: object class `GtkSettings' has no property named `gtk-menu-images' |
| 02:50.27 | Angstrom_ | ** Message: addr_to_call=(null) |
| 02:50.30 | Angstrom_ | ** (linphone-3:21115): WARNING **: Another running instance of linphone has been detected. It has been woken-up. |
| 02:50.34 | Angstrom_ | ** (linphone-3:21115): WARNING **: This instance is going to exit now. |
| 02:50.49 | Angstrom_ | Is there something like filemon for linux so I can find what configuration files it's accessing |
| 02:51.20 | Wyzard | Angstrom_: strace is useful for that |
| 02:51.27 | Arrowmaster | sounds like its already running |
| 02:52.13 | Wyzard | Arrick: It sounds like the RT web interface expects to talk to a separate program, written in Perl, that provides the actual functionality and tells the web UI what to display |
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| 02:52.51 | Arrick | Wyzard, you think you could help me get it going? |
| 02:53.07 | Wyzard | Arrick: One way to run that is with FastCGI, in which the web server starts another program in a separate process and talks to it through a socket |
| 02:53.19 | Arrick | how do i enable it? |
| 02:53.22 | Wyzard | Arrick: The other way is with mod_perl, which loads a Perl interpreter into Apache itself and runs the program there |
| 02:53.33 | Arrick | which would be most efficient? |
| 02:53.35 | Angstrom_ | it's not already running |
| 02:53.37 | Angstrom_ | that's the thing |
| 02:53.54 | Wyzard | Arrick: mod_perl would probably be a little more efficient, but either should be acceptable |
| 02:54.10 | Arrick | can you help me get mod_perl running for it? |
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| 02:54.21 | Wyzard | Arrick: Details of how it should be configured would be in the RT documentation, though, which I don't have |
| 02:54.31 | Arrick | right, which I can pull up |
| 02:54.34 | Arrick | I can post them |
| 02:54.59 | Wyzard | http://requesttracker.wikia.com/wiki/HomePage looks relevant |
| 02:55.23 | Wyzard | and http://bestpractical.com/rt/docs.html mentions that they have their own IRC channel, which might be a better place to ask than here |
| 02:55.33 | Arrick | ahh ok |
| 02:55.42 | Arrick | I hadnt found those yet, thanks. |
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| 02:56.24 | Angstrom_ | how do I put my strace information to a file? like strace > file doesn't work |
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| 02:57.14 | Wyzard | though the "install guides" page is rather outdated (and has a big warning saying so) |
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| 02:57.30 | Arrick | yea Wyzard thats what is killing me I think |
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| 02:58.55 | Wyzard | The apache section at http://requesttracker.wikia.com/wiki/DebianLennyInstallGuide looks like it should be applicable to squeeze as well, though |
| 02:59.43 | Wyzard | basically you enable mod-perl and mod-rewrite |
| 03:00.39 | poncha|laptop | is it possible to make wget download error documents? (eg when fetching a url of some webservice that's reporting http level error codes as well as additional error information in response body, i'd like to get that body too) |
| 03:01.59 | Angstrom_ | Why can't I get linphone-3 working? It seems to give some message saying it's already running when it isn't |
| 03:02.07 | Angstrom_ | Go to this page for an strace --> http://pastebin.com/pFNbwa0z |
| 03:04.54 | Arrowmaster | well if it really isnt already running then maybe there is a leftover lock or pid file or something |
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| 03:05.43 | Arrick | got it Wyzard thanks |
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| 03:07.07 | Wyzard | Angstrom_: Lines 1967 and 1968 are where it prints those messages, but the preceding lines don't look like it's discovering another running instance of linphone |
| 03:07.27 | Andorin | Hi! I'm running Debian stable without testing, experimental or unstable repositories (only stable + Mozilla repos for FF4). I tried to install icedtea6-plugin and got this dependency error, for which a cursory Google search revealed nothing: http://pastebin.com/NJxR5WDw |
| 03:07.42 | Wyzard | It looks like it's sending a message to a SIP server running on localhost, and getting back a SIP error (501 Method Not Implemented) in reply |
| 03:07.56 | Angstrom_ | aah |
| 03:08.02 | Angstrom_ | I have asterisk open, should I try closing that? |
| 03:08.19 | Angstrom_ | but that's port 2000, not 5040 |
| 03:08.21 | Angstrom_ | err, 5060 |
| 03:08.54 | Angstrom_ | Other people on google have the same problem, but no one gave them a solution |
| 03:09.01 | Angstrom_ | (on message boards/mailing lists) |
| 03:09.13 | Angstrom_ | I suppose I could compile a whole new linphone |
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| 03:10.44 | Wyzard | Andorin: You're running squeeze? |
| 03:10.48 | Andorin | Yeah |
| 03:11.08 | Angstrom_ | yes |
| 03:12.04 | Wyzard | The version number of openjdk-6-jre that it expects looks strange: it wants 6b18-1.8.3-2+squeeze1, but the only versions I see available currently in squeeze are 6b18-1.8.3-2 (main repository) and 6b18-1.8.7-2~squeeze1 (security update) |
| 03:12.40 | Angstrom_ | configure: error: cannot compute suffix of executables: cannot compile and link |
| 03:12.41 | Angstrom_ | See `config.log' for more details |
| 03:12.43 | Angstrom_ | This is awful! |
| 03:13.12 | Wyzard | and icedtea6-plugin has the same pair of versions available -- presumably each depends on its corresponding version of openjdk-6-jre |
| 03:13.18 | Wyzard | Angstrom_: Do you have a compiler installed? |
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| 03:13.27 | Angstrom_ | yes, of course |
| 03:13.41 | wols_ | Angstrom_: apt-get install build-essential ? |
| 03:13.51 | Wyzard | A message like that sounds like it means it tried to compile a trivial test program and failed, which usually means no working compiler |
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| 03:14.08 | Angstrom_ | build-essential is already the newest version. |
| 03:14.14 | Wyzard | Andorin: Have you done "apt-get update" lately? |
| 03:14.21 | Andorin | I can now... one sec |
| 03:14.33 | Andorin | But for the record I installed this system last night, so yes |
| 03:14.39 | Wyzard | hmm |
| 03:14.52 | Andorin | Done, and the installation attempt gave the same error |
| 03:15.12 | Angstrom_ | now it's saying configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.40 or later. |
| 03:15.15 | Angstrom_ | I think it's a memory problem |
| 03:15.32 | Wyzard | Andorin: What does "apt-cache policy icedtea6-plugin openjdk-6-jre" say? (pastebin the output) |
| 03:15.36 | Andorin | k |
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| 03:15.51 | Wyzard | Angstrom_: That doesn't sound like a memory problem |
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| 03:16.29 | Wyzard | Most likely you just don't have intltool installed |
| 03:16.48 | Andorin | http://pastebin.com/ucVMsLf3 |
| 03:16.54 | Wyzard | If you're not experienced with building software, building your own linphone is probably not the best option (I doubt it'll make a difference anyway) |
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| 03:18.02 | wols_ | Wyzard: on the other hand, one always has to start to learn about something sometime |
| 03:18.08 | Wyzard | Andorin: Somehow you have a version of openjdk-6-jre installed that's not in the squeeze archive |
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| 03:18.37 | Wyzard | Andorin: You should add an entry for the security archive in your sources.list, then apt-get update again |
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| 03:19.06 | Wyzard | Andorin: That'll make your system find version 6b18-1.8.7-2~squeeze1 of both packages |
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| 03:19.09 | Andorin | Wyzard: Would that mean adding 'security' to my squeeze repo? As in "deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main non-free security"? |
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| 03:19.43 | Wyzard | no, "deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main non-free" |
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| 03:20.21 | Andorin | k |
| 03:20.22 | Wyzard | and consider adding "contrib" between "main" and "non-free" on both lines while you're at it -- it's not related to your current issue, but if you have non-free sources, there's no reason not to have contrib too |
| 03:20.30 | Andorin | Okay |
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| 03:21.05 | Wyzard | (contrib is free software that depends on non-free software; it makes sense to leave it out if you don't want to use any non-free software) |
| 03:21.06 | Andorin | I had to add my sources by hand because my installation glitched and only provided the CD as a software source, not the repositories... so I didn't know to add contrib |
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| 03:22.35 | Andorin | Excellent, apt-get install icedtea6-plugin now appears to be working normally. Thanks, Wyzard |
| 03:22.48 | Wyzard | You're welcome |
| 03:23.05 | Wyzard | You should do a full upgrade to get any other security updates that may be applicable |
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| 03:24.22 | Wyzard | btw, when installing Debian, I nearly always use the netinst CD -- that's sure to give you network repositories in sources.list, since it depends on them for installation, and it doesn't give you an entry for the CD since the CD doesn't contain packages |
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| 03:24.49 | Wyzard | so the default sources.list matches what you want it to be anyway :-) |
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| 03:25.25 | karlpinc_ | !tell Andorin about overview |
| 03:25.42 | karlpinc_ | Andorin: ^^ might help if you're new to Debian. |
| 03:26.00 | Andorin | I saw... thanks |
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| 03:28.49 | Andorin | Okay, here's an easy one. What apt-get or aptitude command can I run to install available software updates, rather than using GNOME's Update Manager? |
| 03:29.00 | Wyzard | aptitude full-upgrade |
| 03:29.16 | Wyzard | or in aptitude's interactive mode, press 'U' to mark all available upgrades for installation |
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| 03:29.27 | Andorin | And that won't put me on testing or unstable or anything? |
| 03:29.37 | Wyzard | Not unless you have testing/unstable entries in sources.list |
| 03:29.39 | Andorin | I know I don't have their repositories added, but I just want to be sure |
| 03:29.40 | Andorin | Okay |
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| 03:32.09 | myke3 | Hi |
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| 03:32.25 | myke3 | Can I reinstall all softwares that I manually installed? |
| 03:32.52 | Wyzard | What sort of "manually" do you mean? |
| 03:33.34 | myke3 | not by dependency |
| 03:34.14 | Wyzard | so packages whose "auto" flag is off |
| 03:34.15 | Wyzard | hmm |
| 03:34.32 | myke3 | maybe yes |
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| 03:35.05 | Wyzard | (as opposed to programs installed using "configure; make; make install" or similar, that aren't packages at all) |
| 03:35.45 | myke3 | We only consider the programs installed by apt. |
| 03:35.58 | Wyzard | If you can get a list of packages you'd like to install, you can feed it to "apt-get install --reinstall", but I don't know of a simple way to get a list of all packages whose auto flag is off |
| 03:36.09 | Wyzard | There's probably a way to do it; I'm just not well-versed in advanced ways to query apt's database |
| 03:36.52 | Wyzard | Wanting to reinstall all those packages sounds like there's some other *real* problem that you're trying to fix, though |
| 03:36.55 | wols_ | Wyzard: that question has been asked before here (just displaying those package). there wasn't a solution mentioned :( |
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| 03:59.27 | babilen | wols_, Wyzard myke3: See "/msg dpkg aptitude clone" for a suitable aptitude seach pattern. |
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| 04:02.12 | wols_ | babilen: doesn't do what is asked. at least for me it shows stuff like xserver-xorg-video-* which no one ever installs manually |
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| 04:03.47 | babilen | wols_: Could you show "aptitude show xserver-xorg-video-foo" please? I am sure it has: "automatically installed: no" |
| 04:04.05 | Angstrom_ | configure: error: cannot compute suffix of executables: cannot compile and link |
| 04:04.16 | Angstrom_ | I'm trying to run linphone and get this error:(linphone-3:18727): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_set_valist: object class `GtkSettings' has no property named `gtk-menu-images' Why wouldn't it work after a few runs and reboots? This is in squeeze... |
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| 04:04.42 | wols_ | babilen: you're right but I never ever installed a tseng videodriver... could it be cause it's an old installation? or cause I installed it via apt-get? |
| 04:04.49 | PCChris | Debian netinst was not detecting my partitions...I've been running Win7...any suggestions? (thanks in advance) |
| 04:05.10 | PCChris | I should mention that they're all NTFS partitions |
| 04:05.12 | Angstrom_ | How do I get .NET Framework 3.5 working |
| 04:05.25 | wols_ | !tell PCChris about ntfsrw |
| 04:05.32 | wols_ | Angstrom_: in wine? |
| 04:05.40 | Angstrom_ | I can get the install to the end of setup, but then it says "Error Report" "Don't Send" box |
| 04:05.43 | Angstrom_ | yes, in win |
| 04:05.44 | Angstrom_ | yes, in wine |
| 04:05.53 | Angstrom_ | I'm using winetricks and the latest version of wine-unstable |
| 04:06.01 | wols_ | !enter |
| 04:06.01 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 04:06.09 | babilen | wols_: If you installed via apt-get a long time ago you'll get false positves, yet. Modern apt-get implementations do not have this problem. (This was the reason for don't mix apt-get and aptitude warnings) |
| 04:06.13 | PCChris | wols_, why would the partitions not show up at all? It's like my partition table isn't being read correctly |
| 04:06.36 | wols_ | PCChris: same disk as debian is on? |
| 04:07.04 | wols_ | babilen: so I gather the !~M does the "not installed manually" bit? |
| 04:07.07 | PCChris | wols_, I'm talking about the Debian netinst bootable disc, latest version |
| 04:07.18 | babilen | wols_: indeed |
| 04:07.45 | myke2 | I only use aptitude |
| 04:07.51 | wols_ | PCChris: does it detect any disks? are your windows partitions a RAID? |
| 04:08.43 | PCChris | wols_: I have no RAID set up...it detects the entire disk but not the partitions contained |
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| 04:08.54 | babilen | myke2: You should be able to operate on the desired set of package with "aptitude foo '~i!~M'" in that case. (Replace foo with whatever you desire to do) |
| 04:09.09 | PCChris | wols_: ie it will only let me use the entire disk which is not what I want |
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| 04:12.40 | wols_ | PCChris: try dmraid=true as a bootparameter perhaps? read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/SataRaid and its links? |
| 04:13.09 | PCChris | wols_: I am not using RAID |
| 04:14.29 | wols_ | it should detect gpt and mbr style partition tables just fine without any problems |
| 04:14.50 | PCChris | wols_: ummmmmm unfortunately that was not the case |
| 04:15.08 | Wyzard | Is it a Windows "dynamic disk" maybe? |
| 04:15.23 | myke2 | babilen: ths |
| 04:15.26 | myke2 | babilen: thx |
| 04:16.06 | PCChris | I have 3 basic partitions and 1 extended containing 1 logical partition |
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| 04:16.25 | PCChris | wols_: funny thing is is it showed up in the shell with /dev/sda1 through /dev/sda5 |
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| 04:16.41 | I_am_deads | because sda5 is a subset of sda4 |
| 04:17.00 | I_am_deads | 1, 2, 3, 4::5 |
| 04:17.09 | PCChris | I_am_deads: yes, but that does not explain why the installer did not detect any of the partitions |
| 04:17.14 | wols_ | so fdisk shows it but partman does not? |
| 04:17.21 | Wyzard | so the kernel did detect the partition, but the installer doesn't |
| 04:17.24 | Wyzard | interesting |
| 04:17.37 | I_am_deads | which installer did you use? |
| 04:17.51 | PCChris | wols_, Wyzard: I can go and try again (unfortunately I only have one machine at my disposal atm) and report back |
| 04:17.58 | PCChris | I_am_deads: netinst latest version |
| 04:18.06 | PCChris | I_am_deads: amd64 |
| 04:18.43 | I_am_deads | Is it possible for you to run the disk utility from another tty? |
| 04:18.46 | I_am_deads | just asking |
| 04:19.07 | PCChris | I_am_deads: I am booted into Win7 right now |
| 04:19.44 | PCChris | wols_, Wyzard, I_am_deads: I shall go and try again and report back with findings...if it works then I may be a while :D |
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| 04:21.09 | fsio2 | i wanted to do su username -c "some command" to execute a command as another user from a script running with root... any way to do that on debian |
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| 04:26.25 | JordiGH | Shit. |
| 04:26.40 | JordiGH | I think it's gonna take 3 days to fill my external hd with /dev/urandom. |
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| 04:27.03 | JordiGH | 462 gigs. |
| 04:27.07 | JordiGH | Does this sound about right? |
| 04:27.29 | aypea[0] | i bet you a nice cup of tea it's doing it at around 9-10MB/sec :) |
| 04:27.50 | JordiGH | I interrupted dd. It said it was doing it at 1.6 MB/s :-( |
| 04:28.01 | aypea[0] | wow. impressive! :) |
| 04:28.05 | aypea[0] | old cpu? |
| 04:28.12 | JordiGH | Intel core 2 duo? |
| 04:28.23 | sauvin | Old HD? |
| 04:28.30 | JordiGH | I bought it this week. |
| 04:28.41 | sauvin | o.O |
| 04:28.45 | sauvin | Why are you clobbering it? |
| 04:28.47 | aypea[0] | don't think that has in-cpu aes stuff. also, usb may be biting you. linux usb hd support makes me cry sometimes. |
| 04:28.50 | JordiGH | Gotta encrypt it. |
| 04:29.09 | JordiGH | Why would I want AES for urandom? |
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| 04:29.38 | Wyzard | JordiGH: You know ATA drives have a built-in firmware security erase feature? |
| 04:29.55 | aypea[0] | my bad :) |
| 04:29.55 | JordiGH | Wyzard: What's that? |
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| 04:30.31 | fsio2 | USB HD have horrible speeds? i never noticed |
| 04:30.40 | aypea[0] | nah |
| 04:30.54 | fsio2 | i think i get 7-10mbps or so |
| 04:30.55 | Wyzard | You tell the drive to erase itself, and it does a more thorough job than you can from userspace, because it can wipe things like unreliable sectors that were reallocated too |
| 04:30.57 | wols_ | fsio2: depends what you call horrible. 30MB/s maximum sequential for USB2 |
| 04:30.58 | aypea[0] | more the way the kernel deals with usb. it tends to freeze up my desktop, which makes me cry. |
| 04:31.14 | Wyzard | I don't think you can do it on a USB drive, though |
| 04:31.19 | Wyzard | need to connect it as real ATA |
| 04:31.32 | fsio2 | wols_ what is typical on windows/mac? |
| 04:31.48 | wols_ | all platforms. 30MB/s as I said |
| 04:32.25 | wols_ | sometimes very good usb2sata controllers do better but they are very very few out there. not cheap enough |
| 04:32.28 | JordiGH | Wyzard: Uh. The drive has one of those tiny usb-like connectors and it came with a cable that plugs in there and plugs to USB. |
| 04:32.31 | JordiGH | Wtf is an ATA? |
| 04:32.43 | Wyzard | PATA, SATA |
| 04:32.43 | superstraw | ... |
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| 04:32.50 | wols_ | ATA is the protocol your PATA and SATA drives speak and what the kernel uses |
| 04:33.10 | JordiGH | Uh-huh. So do I need a different cable or what? |
| 04:33.10 | PCChris | wols_, I_am_deads, Wyzard: Partman is definitely the problem |
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| 04:33.22 | wols_ | however, via the USB translation many finer points of ATA are not supported. like SMART or this erase feature |
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| 04:33.33 | JordiGH | I guess I could just wait 3 days, it's not aeons. |
| 04:33.53 | JordiGH | And I don't want it to erase itself; I want it to fill itself with random noise. |
| 04:33.55 | wols_ | JordiGH: what is the reason to fill it with urandom? |
| 04:33.58 | Wyzard | If it's an external USB hard drive, it's probably actually an ordinary SATA drive wrapped in a case and attached to a SATA-USB bridge |
| 04:34.05 | JordiGH | wols_: I want it to be encrypted. |
| 04:34.06 | Wyzard | You could take it out of the case and plug it in directly |
| 04:34.23 | wols_ | JordiGH: the encrypted fs would overwrite the urandom stuff anyways, no? |
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| 04:35.03 | JordiGH | wols_: Of course, but the point is that assuming AES is good (and I believe it is), it should be indistinguishable from urandom output, so you can't tell where the partition ends without the decryption key. |
| 04:35.07 | sauvin | I mean, if you just bought the silly thing this week, you don't have a lot of stuff on it yet anyway, do you? |
| 04:35.13 | wols_ | PCChris: the question is,what's so special about either your sata controller or your windows partition setup that it doesn't recognize it |
| 04:35.27 | JordiGH | I don't have anything in it, no. Well, there were a bunch of Windows viruses in it or something. |
| 04:35.35 | Wyzard | JordiGH: I'd set up the AES mapping and then write /dev/zero to the plaintext device |
| 04:35.36 | JordiGH | .exe is the filename extension for virus, right? |
| 04:35.39 | PCChris | wols_: fdisk recognizes it... |
| 04:36.05 | JordiGH | Wyzard: Why would that be faster? |
| 04:36.26 | wols_ | JordiGH: all the attacker needs to know that there is a partition (which he will. there never is just random noise on a disk). then he will take out a rubberhose and beat you senseless until you give up the passphrase |
| 04:36.37 | JordiGH | wols_: I don't know the passphrase. |
| 04:36.48 | wols_ | then whoever does |
| 04:36.49 | Wyzard | It wouldn't be any slower, and you don't have to assume that AES output is indistinguishable from urandom |
| 04:36.56 | superstraw | you will after a sufficient beating. |
| 04:37.01 | JordiGH | wols_: It's embedded in my cerebellum. And I can't produce it under duress. I've tried. |
| 04:37.19 | superstraw | waterboarding |
| 04:37.43 | wols_ | no you haven't. after enough sessions in room 101 your cerebellum will beg to allow to enter it |
| 04:38.07 | sauvin | You apparently haven't tried a key logger. |
| 04:38.12 | JordiGH | Well, I'm counting on Amnesty International. |
| 04:38.24 | fsio2 | i rarely do it in windows |
| 04:38.53 | fsio2 | windows is so slow that it is unusable and half the time you lose files in the backup process |
| 04:39.13 | JordiGH | Anyways, I find y'all's lack of cryptography disturbing. |
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| 04:39.53 | wols_ | what happens if you refuse to give the US border guard the password to your truecrypt volume? will you refused entry? |
| 04:40.14 | wols_ | JordiGH: encryption is fine. your security to obscurity isn't |
| 04:40.20 | JordiGH | I prefer to not travel to Soviet Yankeestan nowadays. |
| 04:40.22 | sauvin | You get taken in on presumptive grounds. |
| 04:40.43 | JordiGH | wols_: Huh, what's obscurity by filling it with urandom? d-i does it. You want to file a bug against d-i? |
| 04:40.49 | sauvin | Mmkay, JordiGH, you hate Windows and you hate the US. What else do you hate? |
| 04:40.57 | wols_ | give it time and these laws will come to the EU. sarkozy will need it to enforce his 3 strikes laws |
| 04:41.17 | JordiGH | sauvin: Hell, all Capulets, and thee. |
| 04:41.31 | PCChris | wols_: fdisk recognizes it... |
| 04:41.34 | sauvin | I have no further interest here. |
| 04:41.35 | fsio2 | doesn't everybody has ms windows? and the government is just aww a no brainer too |
| 04:41.50 | fsio2 | both of these things are alike |
| 04:41.56 | fsio2 | people use them because they are forced to |
| 04:42.32 | babilen | thinks that #debian-offtopic is a better place for the discussion of TSA behaviour or feelings towards MS Windows |
| 04:42.53 | PCChris | agrees with babilen |
| 04:43.01 | JordiGH | Anyways, any idea why dd'ing /dev/urandom is so slow? |
| 04:43.09 | wols_ | PCChris: most likely there is some small error in your partition table partman doesn't like :( |
| 04:43.09 | JordiGH | Or should it be so slow? |
| 04:43.26 | JordiGH | sauvin: Not a fan of the bard, eh? |
| 04:43.40 | PCChris | wols_: any suggestion on how to check for such an error/fix it? |
| 04:43.44 | sauvin | JordiGH, maybe you'd be better off asking in ##hardware (or is that #hardware?) |
| 04:43.56 | fsio2 | ok- so with the right drive you can get 20mbps in gnu/linux and probably faster |
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| 04:44.03 | JordiGH | So it's a hardware issue, you think? |
| 04:44.03 | fsio2 | i just tested a few drives |
| 04:44.11 | superstraw | /dev/urandom is slow for me too.. i think it might have something to do with the cpu having to do an random number algorithm and to dd it down? |
| 04:44.12 | fsio2 | and that was with a slow celeron cpu |
| 04:44.36 | JordiGH | Alright then. |
| 04:44.38 | wols_ | JordiGH: it seems to be http://www.duncanelliot.com/blog/?p=7 check this guys's timed run for a 400GB disk |
| 04:44.39 | JordiGH | I guess I wait 3 days. |
| 04:44.45 | fsio2 | stick this in a quad core, duo, or anything remotely fast i bet it would hit 30 too |
| 04:45.14 | wols_ | JordiGH: check if your CPU runs at 100%. is the kernel urandom generator multithreaded? |
| 04:45.27 | JordiGH | Well, *one* CPU runs at 10%. |
| 04:45.32 | JordiGH | 100%. |
| 04:45.34 | wols_ | ouch |
| 04:45.46 | wols_ | single threaded then |
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| 04:47.22 | Wyzard | JordiGH: If your bottleneck is urandom, there's a chance that doing it through AES might actually be faster, though I'm not certain |
| 04:47.41 | JordiGH | That means I gotta figure out how to set the mapper device first. |
| 04:47.50 | JordiGH | Very well. |
| 04:47.59 | Wyzard | With dm-crypt, each sector is encrypted independently, so they *could* be done in parallel -- but I don't know if the kernel actually does |
| 04:48.01 | sauvin | How does urandom generate its output? |
| 04:48.17 | wols_ | sauvin: PRNG in the kernel |
| 04:48.19 | Wyzard | just a PRNG if the entropy pool is empty, afaik |
| 04:48.34 | sauvin | There's no faster randomiser? |
| 04:48.42 | Wyzard | JordiGH: cryptsetup is the tool to use, not dm-crypt directly |
| 04:49.12 | wols_ | Wyzard: PRNG which uses the entropy pool as starting value(s) iirc |
| 04:49.28 | JordiGH | I wonder if AES produces good entropy for a constant stream of zeros. |
| 04:49.29 | wols_ | so slightly better than a single pure prng |
| 04:49.44 | Rusty1 | PCChris: testdisk possibly. sauvin man urandom |
| 04:50.10 | PCChris | Rusty1: thanks, shall try that soon |
| 04:50.13 | JordiGH | How fast is /dev/random if you attach the mouse to some industrial shaker thing? |
| 04:50.19 | Wyzard | JordiGH: It wouldn't be any good as a cipher if the ciphertext has a discernible correlation to the plaintext |
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| 04:50.59 | Wyzard | wols_: but the entropy pool can change, so there's the question of what urandom does if it's generating a PRNG sequence starting from one set of random bits, and then some more random bits come along into the pool |
| 04:51.19 | sauvin | Hrm... JordiGH, if you're going to do the mouse/shaker thing, could there maybe be sources of random somewhere on the net? |
| 04:51.29 | superstraw | /dev/urandom dd's default bs at 2.9MB/s on my old reiserfs drive |
| 04:52.00 | wols_ | Wyzard: as I said above, I'm hoping it uses these new bits as a new starting value. to make a slightly better prng |
| 04:52.15 | ceh421 | do compiz and xfce work OK together? |
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| 04:53.39 | wols_ | JordiGH: /dev/random is also filled by disk access no? what values get in the entropy pool from a continous sequential write? |
| 04:53.41 | Wyzard | superstraw: dd's default block size is 512 bytes -- you'll get better performance with a larger block size |
| 04:54.35 | skiz | I've got my debian live build installer working, but it installs grub when installing to a machine by default. Is there a way to force it to install syslinux so the startup menu will remain the same (minus installer) as the original build? not much documentation as to how to fiddle with debian_binary-installer |
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| 04:55.59 | orzo | i have a computer running debian sarge and intend to upgrade it to squeeze |
| 04:56.03 | orzo | recommendations? |
| 04:56.23 | wols_ | orzo: reinstall. faster than to upgrade to woody etch lenny and then squeeze |
| 04:56.25 | orzo | think dist-upgrade would work out? |
| 04:56.39 | Wyzard | orzo: skipping releases isn't supported |
| 04:56.39 | wols_ | no it won't. skipping releases is not supported |
| 04:56.42 | JordiGH | orzo: http://tinyurl.com/6clexxr |
| 04:57.02 | JordiGH | It's the only way to be sure ^ |
| 04:57.11 | orzo | heh |
| 04:57.25 | sauvin | I did clean install; wiped lenny and installed squeeze, just to be *sure*. |
| 04:58.06 | JordiGH | Jesus, I can't even remember what came after sarge. etch? |
| 04:58.12 | JordiGH | sarge, etch, lenny, squeeze? |
| 04:58.19 | orzo | well it has a password on the bios which is kind of inconvenient for booting an installer |
| 04:58.31 | JordiGH | orzo: You realise there isn't even dist-upgrade anymore? |
| 04:58.33 | sauvin | Wasn't there a woody in there somewhere? |
| 04:58.50 | Wyzard | orzo: Do you know the password? |
| 04:58.51 | orzo | JordiGH: no... there isn't? |
| 04:58.53 | JordiGH | Woody was th eone before sarge, no? |
| 04:58.58 | JordiGH | orzo: Nope. |
| 04:59.07 | skiz | and a potato! |
| 04:59.12 | Wyzard | JordiGH: What do you mean there's no dist-upgrade anymore? |
| 04:59.13 | sauvin | I don't remember. I jumped on the debian bandwagon about two days before etch was released. |
| 04:59.14 | skiz | http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive |
| 04:59.16 | Wyzard | dist-upgrade works fine |
| 04:59.35 | orzo | pft, man apt on squeeze documents dist-upgrade |
| 04:59.37 | JordiGH | Wyzard: It's safe-upgrade or full-upgrade. |
| 04:59.50 | JordiGH | Oh, you mean the deprecated apt-get. |
| 04:59.52 | orzo | what system are you talking about, JordiGH ? |
| 04:59.58 | JordiGH | The upgrade path is tested for aptitude, not apt-get. |
| 04:59.58 | orzo | yes, apt-get |
| 05:00.04 | JordiGH | The release notes are for aptitude, not apt-get. |
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| 05:00.22 | Wyzard | JordiGH: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#upgrading-full says "apt-get dist-upgrade" |
| 05:01.23 | orzo | how about to wheezy when it's released? |
| 05:01.30 | orzo | will that be apt-get too? |
| 05:01.33 | Wyzard | might be either apt-get or aptitude |
| 05:01.43 | Wyzard | aptitude is *meant* to replace apt-get, it just hasn't (entirely) yet |
| 05:01.50 | JordiGH | "The upgrade process for other releases recommended the use of aptitude for the upgrade. This tool is not recommended for upgrades from lenny to squeeze." |
| 05:01.55 | orzo | i dont think i want aptitutde to replace apt-get |
| 05:02.01 | orzo | i like apt-get just fine |
| 05:02.12 | Wyzard | orzo: They're not mutually exclusive; you can have both |
| 05:02.16 | orzo | aptitude is some big curses ui |
| 05:02.20 | orzo | isnt it? |
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| 05:02.28 | Wyzard | aptitude supports command-line operation like apt-get too |
| 05:02.32 | Wyzard | but I like the interactive mode |
| 05:02.54 | orzo | i dont like interactive mode |
| 05:03.10 | Wyzard | JordiGH: etch->lenny recommended aptitude IIRC, but lenny->squeeze recommends apt-get |
| 05:03.16 | Wyzard | so it's not dead yet :-) |
| 05:03.24 | JordiGH | You can't have both; they disagree on what you should have installed, and if you mix apt-get and aptitude carelessly you're gonna be installing and uninstalling a bunch of packages needlessly. |
| 05:03.46 | orzo | that's a mess |
| 05:03.57 | orzo | more proof i should avoid aptitutde |
| 05:03.57 | Wyzard | yes you can have both |
| 05:04.02 | JordiGH | Yes, there's little reason to use apt-get anymore except for apt-get source. |
| 05:04.08 | sauvin | lub apt-get |
| 05:04.10 | JordiGH | More proof you should avoid apt-get. |
| 05:04.12 | Wyzard | It used to be that only aptitude supported "auto" flags, but now apt-get supports them too |
| 05:04.41 | JordiGH | aptitude and apt-get use different conflict resolution mechanisms. Actually, I should say, aptitude supports them, apt-get doesn't. |
| 05:04.45 | sauvin | Oh, and dpkg told me how to get my nvidia going couple nights ago with a simple m-a a-i AFTER I'd spent a couple hours googling. |
| 05:05.11 | sauvin | Whatever they're paying dpkg, it's not nearly enough. |
| 05:05.23 | JordiGH | Solution: don't buy nvidia. |
| 05:05.26 | JordiGH | I sure didn't. |
| 05:05.28 | Wyzard | They may choose different solutions to complex dependency situations, but once you use one or the other to install some packages, they'll agree on what's installed |
| 05:05.53 | sauvin | It's a laptop, and depending on what time of day it is, people will also say don't buy Radeon and don't buy Intel. |
| 05:06.30 | JordiGH | No, intel and radeon are mostly ok. |
| 05:06.32 | sauvin | They're both just front ends to dpkg, aren't they? |
| 05:06.43 | JordiGH | Don't buy stuff that doesn't have free drivers. |
| 05:07.18 | myke2 | Mix aptitude and apt-get? No, that's awful. |
| 05:07.25 | Wyzard | sauvin: sort of -- dpkg just concerns itself with installing .deb files and making sure no dependency requirements are violated; apt concerns itself with obtaining .deb files, and deciding which ones to give to dpkg so that no dependency requirements will be violated |
| 05:07.34 | orzo | what is even the point of aptitude |
| 05:07.43 | orzo | just an annoyance so that people tell me to stop using what i know |
| 05:07.46 | Wyzard | orzo: successor to apt-get |
| 05:07.55 | wols_ | !tell orzo about why aptitude |
| 05:07.55 | orzo | ya that doesnt do anythign for me |
| 05:08.10 | JordiGH | orzo: It's kind like the point of lenny is to stop making you use sarge. |
| 05:08.14 | sauvin | Wyzard, and aptitude and synaptic also fit that description, no? They ALL use or cause dpkg to use the same package management records. |
| 05:08.32 | wols_ | sauvin: yes |
| 05:08.36 | Wyzard | yep, they're all implementations of apt |
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| 05:09.17 | Wyzard | the Advanced Package Tool, which was so named (long ago) because it was better than dselect |
| 05:09.18 | sauvin | In other words, choose your favourite interface 'cuz you're going to get the same place anyway. |
| 05:09.32 | orzo | ya well, i dont see why improved dependency resolution couldnt simply be added to my familiar old apt-get instead of pushing me to use some complete new ui i dont even like |
| 05:09.42 | wols_ | Wyzard: it's still advanced |
| 05:09.45 | Wyzard | orzo: aptitude install <packagename> |
| 05:09.47 | Wyzard | Unfamiliar UI? |
| 05:10.15 | wols_ | Wyzard: yes. "apt-get" is already in muscle memory. "aptitude" is not |
| 05:10.24 | aypea[0] | has found apt-get's dependency resolution less problematic than aptitudes, tbh. |
| 05:11.01 | sauvin | so rarely has trouble with apt-get, it's not even close to funny |
| 05:11.45 | sauvin | I'm liking Debian Squeeze, so far, but compared to Lenny (both running KDE), Squeeze is a bit slower :sigh: |
| 05:11.50 | Wyzard | wols_: It's advanced compared to a tool that most Debian users have nearly forgotten or never knew about in the first place :-) |
| 05:12.18 | aypea[0] | dselect made baby jeebus cry. |
| 05:12.48 | wols_ | dselect and make menuconfig are pretty much the same for me: an endless list where one has to make choices "do I want that or not?" |
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| 05:13.10 | aypea[0] | except that dselect had a couple more choices. |
| 05:13.14 | Wyzard | I was surprised to discover, a few weeks ago, that /var/lib/dpkg/available still exists |
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| 05:13.28 | JordiGH | sauvin: "Government" sounds like "governmind". COINCIDENCE?!?!? |
| 05:13.34 | wols_ | how else would dpkg know what's installed |
| 05:13.35 | Wyzard | That seems like a holdover from dselect -- these days, keeping track of available (but not installed) packages is apt's job, not dpkg's |
| 05:13.52 | sauvin | JordiGH, I don't understand the reference. |
| 05:14.02 | wols_ | Wyzard: how can it do that? |
| 05:14.12 | JordiGH | It's not a reference.. |
| 05:14.18 | JordiGH | Sigh, never mind. |
| 05:14.24 | Wyzard | wols_: hmm, I was thinking it was a list of all packages, not just installed packages -- maybe I assumed wrong |
| 05:14.43 | wols_ | Wyzard: each entry has a field which says "installed" or not |
| 05:14.48 | sauvin | In that case, you may want to bear in mind that English language phonetics are not universally understood. I, for one, don't really speak English. |
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| 05:15.26 | wols_ | and dpkg also needs to know that. apt doesn't know if a package is half installed, does it? or if dpkg -r was run on it. apt always has to query dpkg to know what is installed and what isn't |
| 05:15.46 | Wyzard | wols_: Not in my file -- there's an Installed-Size field but no Installed field |
| 05:16.31 | Wyzard | wols_: The reason it came up was because I was getting warnings from dpkg about bad version-number syntax in a (locally-created) package that had been installed in the past, but subsequently purged |
| 05:16.33 | wols_ | Wyzard: mea culpa. was thinking of "status" |
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| 05:16.55 | JordiGH | sauvin: Governs mind... |
| 05:17.04 | Wyzard | and if a package is not installed, nor half-installed, nor present in any way on the system, it has no business being in dpkg's database IMO |
| 05:17.47 | sauvin | And if I'm deaf, what does "ment" or "mind" sound like? |
| 05:18.01 | JordiGH | sauvin: Levenstein distance of 2. |
| 05:18.07 | sauvin | Sheah. |
| 05:18.17 | Wyzard | so I did "dpkg --clear-avail" and saw no ill effects as a result, so clearly that file isn't dpkg's essentiallist of what's installed (that's /var/lib/dpkg/status) |
| 05:19.37 | sauvin | The waitress at the Chinese place ain't bad, either, actually - really silky soft voice and a sweet smile... hrm... |
| 05:19.45 | sauvin | GAH, wrong channel. I apologise. |
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| 05:20.07 | Wyzard | I guess that means you're not deaf :-P |
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| 05:20.57 | sauvin | I can hear sounds, but not very well. |
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| 05:21.22 | JordiGH | sauvin: Ah, so you're not deaf. |
| 05:21.33 | Wyzard | sorry, didn't mean to offend if you really are hearing-imparied; I was just joking because you mentioned the sound of someone's voice |
| 05:22.02 | sauvin | hee |
| 05:22.14 | JordiGH | sauvin: So you sign? |
| 05:22.34 | sauvin | Well, yea, but using that finger gets me in a lot of trouble... |
| 05:22.43 | JordiGH | Which language do you sign? |
| 05:23.09 | sauvin | I don't. I CAN hear, but not very well. I say "Huh? What?" a lot, and even when I got it, I only heard half of it. |
| 05:23.30 | sauvin | Point remains, you can't assume that everybody on Freenode is going to understand English language phonetics. |
| 05:23.39 | JordiGH | It's not phonetics, dude. |
| 05:23.47 | orzo | move on eh |
| 05:23.54 | JordiGH | It was a stupid joke that you can get because the two words looked vaguely alike. |
| 05:24.10 | JordiGH | And you're making it stupider by turning it into a political thing over Deaf and Hard of Hearing. |
| 05:24.16 | sauvin | Heh. Le mot "governmind" n'existe pas chez moi. |
| 05:24.33 | JordiGH | Mais tu comprends les mots "mind" et "govern" en anglais. |
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| 05:24.40 | JordiGH | C'est pas si difficile... |
| 05:24.56 | sauvin | De temps en temps. Tu m'etapes, t'as DEJA compris! |
| 05:24.59 | JordiGH | Mais si tu veux jouer le con... |
| 05:25.14 | yagoo | no need to name call someone "stupid" because they need a hearing aid JordiGH |
| 05:25.34 | JordiGH | Ils sont fous ces fracophones. |
| 05:25.38 | sauvin | It wasn't a political thing, but you know what? |
| 05:25.45 | *** part/#debian sauvin (~sauvin@about/linux/staff/sauvin) |
| 05:26.02 | yagoo | says JordiGH is trolling |
| 05:26.37 | JordiGH | itym treuler |
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| 05:29.01 | JordiGH | Would it be stupid to use two processes to dd /dev/urandom to the hd, second one with a different offset? |
| 05:29.11 | pipeline | yes |
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| 05:31.55 | wols_ | JordiGH: didn't I suggest that earlier? |
| 05:32.10 | wols_ | and as many processes as you have cores of course |
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| 05:32.30 | JordiGH | wols_: But it sounds dumb, surely that would involve a lot of seeking? |
| 05:32.37 | pipeline | the seeking would brutalize you |
| 05:32.40 | pipeline | unless your disk cache is huge |
| 05:32.54 | JordiGH | <------------------------------------------------------------------------------> |
| 05:32.55 | JordiGH | That big ^ |
| 05:33.05 | pipeline | from a filesystem perspective, if you just had infinite backing I/O, or a large RAIDset, I think having multiple writers would be a big win |
| 05:33.29 | pipeline | but in the typical case, with a small number of spindles, single writer writing contiguously is gonna be the best-case on performance |
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| 05:33.42 | pipeline | unless you have dumb JBOD in which case you would want as many writers as you have spindles |
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| 05:38.24 | wols_ | JordiGH: your max transfer rate is 30 MB/s due to usb, so seek times are not really an issue. also you can set the bs bigger, sevreal MB |
| 05:38.49 | calamari | hi. I just realized my laptop backlight is not turning off when I close the lid. is there a command I can use to manually turn off the light? |
| 05:38.56 | wols_ | JordiGH: your limiting factor is the CPU right now, not the disk. so adding more CPU is good |
| 05:39.40 | JordiGH | Actually, my CPU usage is at 9% right now. |
| 05:39.44 | JordiGH | Odd. |
| 05:40.15 | Bushmills | some years ago, those hard disks with two independent sets of r/w heads, and on-board logic to optimise reads and writes b picking the better set of heads for the operation were entering the market, but it seems they may have disappeared again. those might have been helpful |
| 05:40.41 | calamari | actually.. trying vbetool brb |
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| 05:43.12 | *** join/#debian cesurasean (~Sean_Brad@server.simplewebhosting.us) |
| 05:43.14 | calamari | nm, vbetool worked, please excuse the interruption :) |
| 05:44.10 | cesurasean | hi guys. for some reason im trying to open up port 5500 on my firewall, and i can't seem to get it open. i can connect to vnc locally via 192.168.1.62, but not from my external IP. how can i test to see where the data is stopping? i have a few routers between here, and there, and I need to know which device is not connecting through via port 5500..... any help? |
| 05:44.24 | *** join/#debian McAfreak (~McAfreak@75-169-139-208.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:45.11 | jmarsden | cesurasean: connect into each router in turn, enable packet sniffing for traffic on that port, see if it sees any... repeat until you find the culprit :) |
| 05:45.36 | cesurasean | is there any easier way? |
| 05:45.46 | cesurasean | like ping? |
| 05:45.52 | jmarsden | if "several" is a large number, you can binary search the router space. |
| 05:46.00 | Wyzard | ping doesn't test open ports |
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| 05:46.14 | cesurasean | what can i use to test open pots? |
| 05:46.15 | cesurasean | ports |
| 05:46.16 | jmarsden | If you can find a TCP ping that can use port 5500, maybe. Normal ping does not do that... |
| 05:46.20 | jmarsden | nmap |
| 05:46.50 | Wyzard | If the connection attempt is rejected, the packet that rejects it should have the IP of the router that sent it |
| 05:46.56 | libai | how do i grant permission for a non-root user to access raw usb devices. i'm having a lot of trouble getting my itouch recognized.. |
| 05:47.17 | cesurasean | can someone help me sniff out simpletechnology.us port 5500, and tell me WHERE it's stopping before it connects? |
| 05:47.23 | jmarsden | Wyzard: But most routers these days are configured to drop stuff they don't want, not reject it, aren't they? |
| 05:47.46 | Wyzard | yes, and if the packets are just being dropped, I don't think there's a good way to find out which router along the path is doing it |
| 05:47.57 | cesurasean | i need to find out which device is not forwarding traffic. ahhh!! |
| 05:48.02 | cesurasean | can someone help me out? |
| 05:48.02 | cahoot | libai, check who's got the perms of the device |
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| 05:49.06 | yagoo | !diskmanager |
| 05:49.36 | yagoo | there's an app called like disk-manager or diskmanager that allow maintenance for usb drives |
| 05:49.47 | Wyzard | cesurasean: That returns a "connection refused", which looks like it comes from the destination machine itself |
| 05:50.02 | Wyzard | cesurasean: but if a router along the way is faking it, there's nothing in the packet that tells you so |
| 05:50.04 | cesurasean | what do you mean by destination machine itself? |
| 05:50.23 | cesurasean | so the computer that simpletechnology.us is talkign to is rejecting it? not my internal router? |
| 05:50.29 | cesurasean | i have 2 routers. |
| 05:50.34 | cesurasean | external, and internal. |
| 05:50.45 | cesurasean | trying to find out which one is not forwarding... |
| 05:50.57 | Wyzard | Can you run wireshark and/or tcpdump on them? |
| 05:51.05 | yagoo | Wyzard, you troubleshooting vpn? |
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| 05:51.32 | Wyzard | yagoo: no, cesurasean is trying to figure out which router or host is rejecting a TCP connection |
| 05:51.58 | yagoo | cesurasean, routers connect networks.. what do you mean, ext/int ? |
| 05:52.20 | jmarsden | yagoo: One on the outside of his house, one on the inside? :) |
| 05:52.39 | cesurasean | yes |
| 05:52.49 | cesurasean | well, one is a firewall |
| 05:52.53 | cesurasean | the other is just a router |
| 05:53.00 | yagoo | cesurasean, you mean you're trying to setup port forwarding with vpn? |
| 05:53.09 | Wyzard | cesurasean: The hostname you mentioned resolves to 75.76.254.146 |
| 05:53.14 | cesurasean | anyways, how do i determine which is rejecting the connection? both of them seem to be configured correctly... |
| 05:53.27 | Wyzard | cesurasean: and when trying to connect to it, the reply packet (that refuses the connection) has that address as its source |
| 05:53.32 | cesurasean | port 5500 has been opened on both routers.. |
| 05:54.09 | Wyzard | cesurasean: Nothing in the packet indicates whether it really came from the machine at that address, or from a router in front of it, or from a port-forwarded host behind a NAT router |
| 05:54.29 | cesurasean | how do i fix my problem? |
| 05:54.29 | jmarsden | cesurasean: Do you actually have a service / daemon listening on port 5500 on the host they are supposed to forward that traffic to? |
| 05:54.33 | yagoo | vnc tries to use 5500+ port#s... |
| 05:54.35 | cesurasean | yes |
| 05:54.44 | cesurasean | i can connect to 192.168.1.62 just fine on port 5500 |
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| 05:54.58 | libai | yagoo: disk-manager and fdisk -l don't show my itouch. it just show my laptop's hdd. lsusb shows the itouch and usdbmuxd -v -f shows it gets connected. |
| 05:54.59 | yagoo | use <ip>:<port#> |
| 05:55.06 | Wyzard | That address means you're behind a NAT |
| 05:55.18 | Wyzard | Does 75.76.254.146 belong to a NAT router? |
| 05:55.24 | cesurasean | yes |
| 05:55.36 | Wyzard | Did you forward that port to 192.168.1.62 on the router? |
| 05:55.39 | yagoo | libai, i believe apple products use hfs+.. dunno if its safe to use hfsplus for linux for that |
| 05:55.42 | cesurasean | yes |
| 05:56.00 | cesurasean | i tried forwarding to 192.168.1.2 ( my other router ), then 192.168.1.62 directly. no cigar. |
| 05:56.21 | libai | yagoo, ah, i'll try install some hfsplus tools.. |
| 05:56.40 | yagoo | libai, try to compile hfs from apple source site.. i dont trust hfsplus |
| 05:57.00 | Wyzard | You need to look at traffic outside the NAT router to see if the packets are arriving there |
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| 05:57.51 | Wyzard | maybe connect the router to the ISP through a hub, or a switch with a monitoring port, and run wireshark on another machine connected to it |
| 05:57.55 | cesurasean | what is a utility to view traffic with? |
| 05:58.10 | Wyzard | wireshark is the usual GUI one |
| 05:58.20 | cesurasean | I don't have a GUI. |
| 05:58.38 | Wyzard | You can also capture packets using tcpdump, which is a command-line tool, and either view them right there in text mode, or save them to a file to open in wireshark on a different machine |
| 05:59.53 | cesurasean | whoa. tcpdump is moving fast. |
| 06:00.01 | cesurasean | how do i slow it down so i know what im seeing? |
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| 06:00.08 | Wyzard | Without any options, it captures *all* packets |
| 06:00.13 | Wyzard | Give it a filter like "tcp port 5500" |
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| 06:00.38 | cesurasean | how do i give it a filter? |
| 06:00.47 | cesurasean | tcpdump tcp port 5500? |
| 06:01.28 | Wyzard | yep |
| 06:01.38 | Bushmills | nope, wouldn't help, if those routers are or aren't set to merely send on traffic to port 5500, not reply to it. |
| 06:02.02 | cesurasean | i tried to connect with vnc, and it shows nothing. |
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| 06:02.18 | Wyzard | Where on the network is the machine where you're running tcpdump? |
| 06:02.28 | Bushmills | (that tcp ping mention earlier. sorry lag) |
| 06:02.29 | cesurasean | Faild to connect to server 75.76.254.146 |
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| 06:02.57 | cesurasean | I have 1 router at 192.168.1.1, and a 2nd router at 192.168.1.2, and the machine im trying to send to is 62 |
| 06:03.29 | Wyzard | but where are you running tcpdump? |
| 06:03.34 | yagoo | cesurasean, ?????????? |
| 06:03.41 | yagoo | cesurasean, what's the 2nd router? |
| 06:03.48 | yagoo | (model) |
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| 06:04.39 | cesurasean | what do you mean whats the 2nd router? |
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| 06:04.53 | yagoo | cesurasean, you using NAT on router#@? |
| 06:04.54 | cesurasean | I was running tcpdump on the 1st router, the gateway |
| 06:04.59 | yagoo | (#2?) |
| 06:05.01 | cesurasean | no |
| 06:05.03 | cesurasean | on 1 |
| 06:05.17 | cesurasean | and i don't see anything |
| 06:05.27 | yagoo | cesurasean, and where's this server located? what's it's ip? |
| 06:05.30 | Bushmills | cesurasean: "can connect to vnc locally via 192.168.1.62, but not from my external IP." .. to you try to connect to 192,168,1,62 from an outside machine in internet? |
| 06:05.34 | cesurasean | 192.168.1.62 |
| 06:05.53 | yagoo | cesurasean, so this server cabled to router#1 |
| 06:06.10 | cesurasean | its connected to router #2, which is connected to router #1 |
| 06:06.23 | yagoo | cesurasean, what's the other network on router#2? |
| 06:06.26 | cesurasean | the traffic must flow from router 1, to router 2, to server |
| 06:06.35 | cesurasean | it's the same network |
| 06:06.41 | yagoo | cesurasean, ? |
| 06:06.47 | cesurasean | 192.168.1.x |
| 06:06.53 | yagoo | cesurasean, what's the model of router#2 ? |
| 06:06.53 | Wyzard | strange setup |
| 06:07.03 | *** join/#debian linux-fox (~user@60.218.63.13) |
| 06:07.08 | yagoo | setup is all wrong. |
| 06:07.11 | cesurasean | my first router is ClearOS, and 2nd is a dd-wrt router |
| 06:07.25 | yagoo | cesurasean, can u turn the dd-wrt into a switch? |
| 06:07.26 | Wyzard | but if tcpdump doesn't see the packets on router 1, and that's the one that's connected directly to the Internet, then it must be something at the ISP or beyond that's blocking |
| 06:07.28 | cesurasean | i use the dd-wrt for wifi |
| 06:07.34 | cesurasean | yes, it is a switch now |
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| 06:07.44 | cesurasean | using the 5th port for switch |
| 06:07.45 | yagoo | cesurasean, so it's not running as a router.. |
| 06:07.48 | cesurasean | nope |
| 06:07.53 | cesurasean | just wifi access point |
| 06:07.55 | yagoo | cesurasean, so where's the dhcp server? |
| 06:08.03 | Wyzard | then you confuse people when you call it a router |
| 06:08.04 | cesurasean | the 192.168.1.1 is dhcp |
| 06:08.08 | yagoo | cesurasean, don't enable it on router#2.. only use dhcp server on router1 |
| 06:08.21 | cesurasean | it is a router. :) just not acting as one... |
| 06:08.23 | Wyzard | but stuff on the LAN is irrelevant if the packets aren't arriving at your external gateway |
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| 06:08.56 | cesurasean | Wyzard, you are saying my external router is not giving access? |
| 06:09.04 | cutout | hi, when I run a script that I have I get this message |
| 06:09.07 | cutout | running /etc/init.d/networking restart deprecated becuase it may not enable again some interfaces |
| 06:09.16 | cutout | what should I use instead |
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| 06:09.45 | yagoo | cesurasean, can you access the server from a router1 cable connection ? |
| 06:10.04 | Wyzard | You ran tcpdump on the external router, watching TCP port 5500, attempted a connection in from somewhere on the Internet, and didn't see any packets in tcpdump, right? |
| 06:10.30 | cesurasean | yagoo, yes |
| 06:10.45 | cesurasean | Wyzard, yes. |
| 06:11.04 | yagoo | cesurasean, so there's no NAT server running on router2 correct? |
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| 06:11.12 | cesurasean | yagoo, i guess. |
| 06:11.30 | yagoo | cesurasean, so this means u dont need to do any port forwarding setup on router2 correct? |
| 06:11.38 | Wyzard | cesurasean: If the packets don't arrive at your router, it's not your router blocking them, it's something farther out that's blocking your router from seeing them |
| 06:12.15 | cesurasean | Wyzard, so with that test, you're saying my ISP is blocking the port? |
| 06:12.25 | Wyzard | That's what it looks like, based on what you've said |
| 06:13.12 | Wyzard | Try a different port number |
| 06:13.20 | yagoo | cesurasean, can a internet machine access the server.. if the server is cabled to router1 ? |
| 06:13.38 | yagoo | cesurasean, try putting the server in dmz |
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| 06:13.57 | Wyzard | doesn't matter (yet) whether the router's configured to accept it, just run tcpdump on the router watching some arbitrary port, and attempt a connection from elsewhere on the Internet to that port |
| 06:14.07 | Wyzard | and see if anything arrives at the router |
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| 06:14.53 | Wyzard | yagoo: There's no sense troubleshooting port-forwarding when the traffic isn't even reaching the outside of the router |
| 06:15.22 | cesurasean | I can't change the port. |
| 06:15.32 | cesurasean | Not sure how to. |
| 06:15.33 | yagoo | cesurasean, can a internet machine access the server.. if the server is cabled to router1 ? |
| 06:16.35 | Wyzard | cesurasean: Just pick a port number -- say, 12345 |
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| 06:16.56 | Wyzard | Run "tcpdump tcp port 12345" on the router, then try to connect to that port from outside |
| 06:17.07 | Wyzard | just to see if it shows up in tcpdump |
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| 06:17.23 | cesurasean | i tried another port, and no success |
| 06:17.24 | Wyzard | It should, unless the ISP is blocking port 12345 for some reason (which is unlikely) |
| 06:17.27 | cesurasean | same thing |
| 06:17.32 | Wyzard | nothing in tcpdump? |
| 06:17.51 | yagoo | cesurasean, dd-wrt is also on router1? (SPI Firewall is off) |
| 06:17.52 | cesurasean | nope |
| 06:18.02 | Wyzard | You may be watching the wrong interface on the router, then |
| 06:18.14 | Wyzard | Which one is eth0 on the router, Internet side or LAN side? |
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| 06:18.24 | cesurasean | this time port 5900, and same thing |
| 06:18.31 | Bushmills | you're aware that rfc1918 addresses aren't internet-routed, right? |
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| 06:19.06 | yagoo | cesurasean, i'm looking at the dd-wrt simulator |
| 06:19.21 | cesurasean | im not using dd-wrt other than a switch |
| 06:19.25 | cesurasean | i have router mode turned off |
| 06:19.45 | cesurasean | im using ClearOS for my 1st router. the gateway.. |
| 06:19.55 | Wyzard | Bushmills: It's simpletechnology.us, 75.76.254.146 |
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| 06:21.22 | Bushmills | 75.76.254.146 replies to tcp/5500 probes |
| 06:21.46 | Wyzard | hmm, it does now |
| 06:21.50 | Wyzard | It was rejecting connections earlier |
| 06:22.03 | cesurasean | yeah |
| 06:22.08 | cesurasean | you're right. port 5500 isnt working. |
| 06:22.22 | cesurasean | damned ISP. |
| 06:22.27 | cesurasean | why would they block 5500? |
| 06:22.28 | Wyzard | Well, no, I can actually connect to port 5500 now |
| 06:22.34 | cesurasean | you can? |
| 06:22.52 | Wyzard | mike@terra:~$ nc -v simpletechnology.us 5500 |
| 06:22.53 | Wyzard | Connection to simpletechnology.us 5500 port [tcp/*] succeeded! |
| 06:23.01 | cesurasean | weird |
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| 06:23.20 | Wyzard | Did you see my question a minute ago about which NIC is eth0 on your router? |
| 06:23.25 | cesurasean | no |
| 06:23.27 | cesurasean | doesnt matter now |
| 06:23.29 | cesurasean | thanks guys |
| 06:23.33 | cesurasean | i think i figured it out |
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| 06:24.30 | yagoo | cesurasean, .. guess what |
| 06:24.34 | yagoo | cesurasean, i can ssh to it |
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| 06:24.54 | yagoo | i get the ssh prompt.. |
| 06:25.03 | yagoo | so definitely i can reach it |
| 06:25.44 | Wyzard | wonders what cesurasean changed |
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| 06:29.04 | yagoo | guesses cesurasean turned bridging on http://www.informatione.gmxhome.de/DDWRT/Standard/V24BetaVPN/Wireless_Basic.html |
| 06:29.06 | yagoo | :p |
| 06:29.08 | Wyzard | btw, remember that VNC is not encrypted -- using it over the Internet is a bad idea |
| 06:29.19 | Wyzard | especially if people will be typing passwords |
| 06:29.36 | Wyzard | better to tunnel it through SSH, or set up a VPN |
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| 06:30.35 | yagoo | says its easier to setup NX .. if ssh works nX will cuse nx is tunneled in ssh |
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| 06:31.37 | Bushmills | vpn is more flexible because you can route other traffic, not related to vpn, through it as well. |
| 06:31.51 | Bushmills | not related to vnc, i mean |
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| 06:34.49 | yagoo | cesurasean, so you gonna gimme us the root password to do a finale ? |
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| 06:38.05 | cesurasean | yagoo, excuse me? |
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| 06:39.30 | yagoo | cesurasean, i just use nx.. i don't want to meddle with your machine :P (nomachine's version works better than the community edition if u're interested) |
| 06:40.11 | yagoo | Bushmills, tightvnc is good.. but i hate it cuse its troublesome to setup and then there's extra tinkering to do |
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| 06:58.51 | ectospasm | I'd like to use my webcam as a motion sensor, so I can trigger my desk lamp to turn on. But I don't know where to begin looking at solutions. |
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| 07:00.02 | ectospasm | I know I'll need at least one piece of hardware to get the desk lamp to toggle, but the first thing is the webcam motion sensor. |
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| 07:00.27 | BaseBallBoy | alright WTF did I do? |
| 07:00.28 | BaseBallBoy | â½ââ¼â´ââ¼:/â¤âºââ/âââ½âââââ½/ââââ¤ââ¼â-ââââ/ââºâ¼Â°# |
| 07:00.50 | ectospasm | uh |
| 07:00.59 | BaseBallBoy | Debian 5.0, my server |
| 07:01.09 | nevyn | ectospasm: there's a bunch of motion based security things |
| 07:01.16 | Bushmills | BaseBallBoy: execute "reset" |
| 07:01.19 | ectospasm | nevyn: can you name one? |
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| 07:01.34 | BaseBallBoy | Bushmills: thanks |
| 07:01.37 | Bushmills | you sent a ctrl-n or ctrl-o to console |
| 07:01.49 | BaseBallBoy | ahh, okay thanks a lot |
| 07:01.58 | BaseBallBoy | cya guys |
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| 07:02.09 | nevyn | ectospasm: zoneminder |
| 07:03.24 | cahoot | motion? |
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| 07:04.26 | ectospasm | I don't need to capture, just detect motion in my room so I don't have to leave the light constantly on. |
| 07:06.51 | ectospasm | if I could ignore motion in certain portions of the room, that'd be great |
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| 07:07.50 | nevyn | so that's what things like zoneminder/motion do. |
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| 07:08.41 | Bushmills | ectospasm: a canon digital camera with CHDK |
| 07:09.01 | Bushmills | (and the motion detection script) |
| 07:09.40 | nevyn | that works too. (can it do zones tho) > |
| 07:09.47 | ZitZ | does compiz work with nouveau or am i barking up the wrong tree here? |
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| 07:09.56 | nevyn | !nouveau |
| 07:09.56 | dpkg | The nouveau project aims to build high-quality, open source drivers for NVIDIA video cards. Nouveau <DRM> is in mainline as of Linux 2.6.33 and included in linux-2.6 since 2.6.32-10. The nouveau display driver is packaged as xserver-xorg-video-nouveau, DRI/3D support is not enabled; read its README.Debian file for important notes. For 3D support on Debian systems, use the proprietary "nvidia" driver, ask me about <nvidia>. |
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| 07:10.15 | nevyn | debian have not compiled the dri support for nouveau |
| 07:10.24 | ZitZ | why not? |
| 07:10.54 | ZitZ | and why isn't that stated in the debian wiki |
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| 07:14.00 | wols_ | ZitZ: back when nouveau went into squeeze, 3D wasn't working well enough most probably. nouveau is very much a work in progress |
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| 07:17.21 | ZitZ | wols_: i understand this, but it still isn't an excuse for lack of documentation, and if nouveau doesn't support 3D then why is there all this hype? and why were modules getting installed in my kernel by default that i had to blacklist |
| 07:17.54 | ZitZ | sorry, i'm venting, i had a dream of a 100% free install |
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| 07:19.55 | wols_ | by now nouveau should do 3D. maybe try wheezy for the nouveau part? |
| 07:20.20 | wols_ | a backort of Xorg is probably not so easy or doable |
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| 07:21.14 | ZitZ | i'm on sid |
| 07:21.36 | slooth | Hello, I'm using locate (findutils), I'm wondering if there's an option to /not/ allow listing/finding files to users that do not have +r on the path leading to the files? Thanks. (example: /bla/test1/test2 is 701, there exists /bla/test1/test2/something.hidden, and when a user (non-root) tries to locate something.hidden, he'll find it - I want this disabled) |
| 07:21.39 | ZitZ | and direct rendering is yes and glxgears works like it did with the nvidia driver |
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| 07:22.42 | Bartzy | Hi |
| 07:22.43 | wols_ | slooth: IIRC the locate DB doesn't store this info |
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| 07:22.57 | Bartzy | Why squeeze-backports doesn't require apt pinning while lenny-backports require it ? |
| 07:23.25 | slooth | wols_, the way I see it, this has nothing to do with the /database/. Only the options (regulations) that are (globally) specified for non-root users. (something like that) |
| 07:23.54 | Arrowmaster | Bartzy: because of a change in how apt handles them |
| 07:24.16 | wols_ | slooth: every file has different permissions. of course it needs to be in the database for the locate program to know which to display for the current user and which not |
| 07:24.28 | slooth | wols: no. |
| 07:24.30 | Bartzy | Arrowmaster: What is the change ? |
| 07:24.35 | slooth | wols_, /please/ read again |
| 07:25.02 | Arrowmaster | theres a new flag in the Release file that tells apt to treat it specially |
| 07:25.10 | wols_ | " /not/ allow listing/finding files to users that do not have +r on the path leading to the files" so you want check permissions for users |
| 07:25.21 | slooth | wols_, yes |
| 07:25.30 | slooth | wols_, are you aware how find works? |
| 07:25.49 | slooth | wols_, well SOMETHING like that, with the option to locate, too (e.g. without specifiying which path to search on) |
| 07:26.09 | slooth | for example, find /bla/test1/ wouldn't discover /bla/test1/test2 if I have o-r on /bla/test1 (and I'm non-root, etc) |
| 07:26.18 | wols_ | slooth: "locate" is not part of findutils and nothing to do with "find" |
| 07:26.28 | slooth | omg.. |
| 07:26.29 | Bartzy | Arrowmaster: And why pinning it to 200 in lenny-backports worked ? The default pinning number is higher ? |
| 07:26.30 | slooth | okay. |
| 07:26.47 | wols_ | slooth: apt-cache show findutils. "This package contains 'find' and 'xargs'; however, 'locate' has been split off into a separate package. |
| 07:27.05 | slooth | wols_, I am just comparing them...nothing else.. |
| 07:27.11 | slooth | so I can show you what I exactly need |
| 07:27.43 | wols_ | and updatedb/locate has no fields for permissions in their DB and the DB is IIRC world readable |
| 07:27.53 | slooth | yes, that's correct |
| 07:28.01 | slooth | you recall correctly |
| 07:28.20 | wols_ | so unless you want to completely rewrite locate, you can't do what you want |
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| 07:29.11 | slooth | I would've expected such an option, it looks very reasonable |
| 07:29.20 | slooth | Are you sure there isn't such an option (in the conf. file, for example) ? |
| 07:29.29 | Arrowmaster | Bartzy: yes, there is a flag 'NotAutomatic: yes' that tells apt to pin it at a very low priority preventing a new package from being installed automatically, but then there is a new one 'ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes' |
| 07:29.34 | wols_ | what part of "DB is world readable" did you miss? |
| 07:29.45 | slooth | ... |
| 07:29.56 | wols_ | there is no point to do pseudo DRM when the source material is there for grabs by any user run program |
| 07:30.06 | Arrowmaster | Bartzy: the new one makes it pin it at 200 which is higher than the 100 of currently installed packages but below the 500 of other sources |
| 07:30.09 | slooth | Yes, you are right |
| 07:30.26 | slooth | Thanks. |
| 07:30.29 | slooth | I might as well rewrite it |
| 07:30.55 | wols_ | slooth: I'm not totally sure if thre isn't something already. but my memory is as usually, hazy |
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| 07:31.05 | thewanderer1 | slooth: perhaps every user should generate their own locate DB? |
| 07:31.36 | wols_ | slooth: yes there is. use mlocate. apt-cache show mlocate |
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| 07:31.48 | Bartzy | Arrowmaster: OK. so if I have squeeze-backports, and installed something from the regular repo. Then I do aptitude upgrade , or aptitude install dovecot-pop3d for example - it will be upgraded from backports ? |
| 07:32.00 | slooth | thewanderer1, yeah -- sounds like a lot of work (altohugh generally answers the question) |
| 07:32.08 | Bartzy | Arrowmaster: Because I don't want that behavior. I want it to be updated from backports only if it was originally installed from backports. |
| 07:32.19 | slooth | wols_, what option is that @ mlocate? |
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| 07:32.28 | wols_ | Bartzy: no. backports will never install automatically. you always have to do that explicitly. read the instructions on bpo |
| 07:32.32 | slooth | mlocate is +s, makes sense. locate.findutils is not |
| 07:32.37 | wols_ | slooth: did you read the description? |
| 07:32.46 | Arrowmaster | Bartzy: you have to explicitly tell it to install the version from backports first, but then after that it will upgrade to newer versions in backports as they are found automatically |
| 07:33.03 | wols_ | slooth: slocate too |
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| 07:33.09 | slooth | Right, their default |
| 07:33.10 | slooth | Thanks |
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| 07:36.16 | ZitZ | got compiz working with nouveau, a little buggy, needed to install libmesa-dri-experimental, will add it to the debian wiki like a good little boy |
| 07:36.29 | Bartzy | Arrowmaster: Cool, how does that happen ? :| |
| 07:36.53 | wols_ | Bartzy: automagically |
| 07:37.07 | klaconer | I'm trying to set my Real Name on epic4 to something other than what it is set for as my shells real name. How do I do that, I'm trying to set an environmental variable to (export IRCNAME="Whatever Name") but everytime I login to epic4 it keeps my name as the shells real name and not the one I've picked. |
| 07:37.29 | Bartzy | wols_: Can you explain? :| |
| 07:37.47 | Bartzy | Also, can I backports (ssb) from wheezy, or only from sid ? why dpkg says I should backports from sid ? |
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| 07:37.56 | wols_ | klaconer: is epic4 still in debian? or even supported upstream? |
| 07:38.10 | klaconer | I dunno |
| 07:38.26 | wols_ | Bartzy: you can create backports from whatever you want. bpo packages are all from wheezy |
| 07:38.38 | wols_ | klaconer: may I suggest you run irssi or weechat? |
| 07:38.55 | Bartzy | wols_: So for a server, I should better backport from wheezy ? |
| 07:39.00 | wols_ | irssi for example can explictily set your real name |
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| 07:39.58 | wols_ | Bartzy: I just said "you can create backports from whatever you want". what you should do you have to decide yourself, we cannot think for you |
| 07:40.23 | Bartzy | wols_: I don't understand the differences between sid and wheezy. |
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| 07:41.17 | Bartzy | I don't want you to think for me, but I'll appreciate it if you could explain why they are different so I can make a better decision. |
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| 07:41.41 | Bushmills | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:41.59 | Bartzy | I understand that |
| 07:42.04 | klaconer | wols_ I just need to know how to properly set an enviromental variable for my IRCNAME, google isin't helping much. |
| 07:42.17 | Bartzy | But why should I backport a package from wheezy instead of sid ? |
| 07:42.19 | ZitZ | packages eventually enter testing when they have spent enough time in unstable without horrible bugs |
| 07:42.21 | wols_ | after a package enters debian in sid, it will go into testing after some time when no errors creep up. |
| 07:42.24 | Bushmills | no, you said you don't understand the differences |
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| 07:43.06 | wols_ | klaconer: export IRCNAME=name |
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| 07:43.22 | ZitZ | eventually wheezy is frozen and only receives bug fix updates, but technically when this happens sid slows down too and is basically frozen as well for all intense and purposes |
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| 07:43.48 | Bartzy | So basically "wheezy" is "safer" to backport from |
| 07:43.52 | wols_ | ZitZ: not really. it's just that every dev works frantically to get a new stable out of the door so no time for anything else :) |
| 07:44.25 | ZitZ | yeah, so it ends up that way |
| 07:45.03 | wols_ | ZitZ: and when a new testing is created, there is BIG influx of new packages from sid, which shows that sid didn't stand still while testing was frozen |
| 07:45.35 | wols_ | klaconer: that assumes you are running bash btw |
| 07:45.37 | ZitZ | well the new testing starts as a copy of sid |
| 07:46.00 | fsio2 | can you use the adduser command without prompting for information? |
| 07:46.06 | fsio2 | like the password |
| 07:46.16 | Bushmills | fsio2: useradd. |
| 07:46.26 | fsio2 | useradd doesn't do all the same stuff adduser does |
| 07:46.30 | Bushmills | be aware that adduser does more than useradd |
| 07:46.36 | Bartzy | wols_, Bushmills , Arrowmaster : Thank you for your help. Appreciate it. |
| 07:46.41 | fsio2 | :) yea- which is my problem |
| 07:46.51 | fsio2 | i want to do everything adduser does |
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| 07:47.26 | fsio2 | i'm trying to use passwordless ssh and it doesn't work . i think it might have to do with me switching from adduser to useradd |
| 07:47.30 | Bushmills | create home dir, populate it from skel. password can be set with chpasswd |
| 07:47.39 | Bushmills | ssh? use keys |
| 07:47.44 | fsio2 | i am |
| 07:47.53 | fsio2 | but when i ssh in it asks for a key |
| 07:47.58 | Bushmills | ssh -vvv |
| 07:48.16 | wols_ | fsio2: that has nothing to do with it |
| 07:48.45 | Bushmills | user home dir exits? .ssh in there? public key in authorized_keys? permissions set restrictively? |
| 07:48.50 | fsio2 | yea |
| 07:49.04 | fsio2 | maybe not the right permissions |
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| 07:50.15 | abaddon | hi, the debian live cd builder here http://live-build.debian.net/cgi-bin/live-build does "standard" --packages-list mean gnome or kde? or both? |
| 07:50.32 | fsio2 | http://pastebin.ca/2074935 |
| 07:50.35 | abaddon | (i know debian defaults to gnome) |
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| 07:52.01 | fsio2 | more of the code: pastebin.ca/2074937 |
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| 07:55.30 | Bushmills | fsio2: public key in authorized_keys is installed on same machine where private key resides? file name is authorized_keys2? why not use the public key from the machine you'r trying to log in from? |
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| 07:56.39 | Quota2 | Hi, which give more performance interms of read & write for 4x1TB and 4x2TB |
| 07:56.55 | Quota2 | I'm talking about raid0 as i don't need redundancy for data. |
| 07:57.48 | fsio2 | Bushmills: a package is being with the private key so a user does not need to upload it from the client to the server |
| 07:57.58 | fsio2 | being generated* |
| 07:58.08 | Bushmills | user never uploads private key to server |
| 07:58.45 | fsio2 | right- i think. the user should not have to upload there public key |
| 07:58.56 | Bushmills | user adds public key to authorized_keys |
| 07:59.04 | fsio2 | normally - yea |
| 07:59.22 | fsio2 | but in this case we're generating the key on the server |
| 07:59.32 | Bushmills | "not have to upload their public key" ... at the expense of having to download private key? |
| 07:59.41 | fsio2 | yes? |
| 07:59.53 | fsio2 | am i doing something that doesn't make sense? |
| 08:00.06 | fsio2 | i don't want the user to have to deal with keys |
| 08:00.34 | Bushmills | usually one want the private key to be secret, and not been sent around all over |
| 08:00.47 | Bushmills | that's what the public key is for |
| 08:00.55 | fsio2 | so i am simply generating one and then using ssh -i id_private_key that was generated on the server for a user account that was created for them in which they can login without entering a password |
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| 08:02.07 | abaddon | fsio2: rsa is authorized_keys, you should use -t dsa anyway, i havent seen your original question after i joined |
| 08:02.32 | fsio2 | hmm maybe i should post all the code |
| 08:02.43 | Bushmills | abaddon: that was: (09:46:00) fsio2: can you use the adduser command without prompting for information? |
| 08:02.46 | fsio2 | i'm pretty sure i have it right. i know it works. |
| 08:03.03 | fsio2 | that isn't the part which isn't working |
| 08:03.10 | abaddon | i think useradd is what you want |
| 08:03.23 | fsio2 | abaddon: yea- when i do it with useradd it fails |
| 08:03.28 | Bushmills | leans back to see the thread rewind |
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| 08:04.45 | abaddon | http://linuxers.org/article/differences-between-useradd-and-adduser-commands |
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| 08:06.04 | fsio2 | OK; so this is all the code: http://pastbin.ca/2074944 |
| 08:06.06 | wernerdev | What's this with Debian and Firefox? |
| 08:06.20 | cahoot | a long story |
| 08:06.34 | cahoot | !iceweasel |
| 08:06.34 | dpkg | Iceweasel is a DFSG-free fork of Firefox, which replaces it in Debian as of Etch. It is not GNU's Firefox fork (now known as <IceCat>). Ask me about <why iceweasel> and <iceweasel user-agent>. Use gnome-default-applications-properties to change settings such as the mail reader. http://wiki.debian.org/Iceweasel |
| 08:07.42 | wernerdev | Yes I know about that, but I want to know if there is a option to install Firefox on Debian anyway. Any custom repo or something? |
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| 08:07.57 | JordiGH | !why iceweasel |
| 08:07.57 | dpkg | Due to Mozilla logos licensing, Mozilla software isn't DFSG-free, so Debian distributes Mozilla software with different logos. One day Mozilla Corporation decided to revoke the agreement to let Debian use Mozilla trademarks, so Debian changed to non-trademarked product names. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_in_Debian for more information. http://glandium.org/blog/?p=933. Ask me about <dfsg>. |
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| 08:08.10 | cahoot | personally I just use the mozilla pkg installed in /opt |
| 08:08.44 | fsio2 | why would you want to user firefox instead of iceweasel? |
| 08:08.50 | fsio2 | they are the same program |
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| 08:08.56 | fsio2 | with a different name |
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| 08:09.28 | wernerdev | fsio2: Yeh could be, but it just doesn't feel right. And the logo sucks :) |
| 08:09.33 | dutchfish | fsio2, maybe to get fixes sooner, i suppose. |
| 08:09.50 | cahoot | ..and fresher bugs |
| 08:09.56 | dutchfish | true |
| 08:10.03 | wernerdev | So download it from Mozilla and create a LN? |
| 08:10.38 | fsio2 | how much sooner does firefox release fixes over debian? i'm sure this is automated and just getting another package doesn't seem like it would have any benefits |
| 08:11.08 | fsio2 | i guess however long it takes to compile...? |
| 08:11.13 | cahoot | fsio2, you seem to restrict the matter to a case of practicalities? |
| 08:11.16 | dutchfish | fsio2, if it is important mostly in a few days or less |
| 08:11.26 | wernerdev | For example, stable still has Iceweasel 3.5... |
| 08:11.42 | wernerdev | While 4 has been released for a long time now. |
| 08:11.51 | wernerdev | Firefox that is. |
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| 08:12.11 | dutchfish | wernerdev, newer is not better within the conext of security. |
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| 08:12.22 | dutchfish | s/conext/context |
| 08:12.48 | fsio2 | yea- but that is something completely different. all the distribution's stable versions package the stable release of firefox with security updates. it would have no impact on security. |
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| 08:13.08 | fsio2 | even though ubuntu has 3.6.x it is still as current as 4.x with security |
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| 08:13.43 | dutchfish | i don't know for sure, but maybe it will appear or has apeared in bpo |
| 08:13.53 | fsio2 | debian should be backporting all the security related bug fixes for it |
| 08:14.00 | Bushmills | there's swiftfox. currently on 3.6.13. .deb repo available. |
| 08:14.03 | wernerdev | dutchfish: True, but for a Desktop usage security is less important. |
| 08:14.20 | fsio2 | wernerdev: that depends you know |
| 08:14.30 | dutchfish | wernerdev, i disagree on that, specially with browsers, for me its security first |
| 08:14.37 | fsio2 | wernerdev: for some users security is more important than with a server |
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| 08:15.08 | luxor | hi here |
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| 08:15.20 | wernerdev | Add to that my feeling about Firefox 4 being securer then older versions... |
| 08:15.26 | luxor | can i install no-ip from apt-get ? |
| 08:15.58 | Bushmills | luxor: an updater for no-ip.com? |
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| 08:16.07 | fsio2 | it really depends on what the server is used for and/or what the user is doing... some users are being attacked just like some servers are being attacked. a server going down or being compromised may have no effect. a person whose security is compromised could end up in jail or dead. |
| 08:16.08 | luxor | yes Bushmills |
| 08:16.13 | Bushmills | luxor: ez-ipupdate |
| 08:16.39 | luxor | what's the difference between nip2 and ez-ipupdate ? |
| 08:16.46 | dutchfish | wernerdev, but then again, i agree on that the fast pace of browser development is hard for lsow moving distro's to keep up with all the updates and security fixes |
| 08:17.02 | Bushmills | ez-ipupdate supports a whole list of services |
| 08:17.04 | dutchfish | s/lsow/slow |
| 08:17.19 | Bushmills | can use the same also for dyndns, for example |
| 08:17.29 | luxor | and noip2 doesn't exist for debian anymore ? |
| 08:17.35 | fsio2 | dutchfish: they are no slow moving. they are after stability and the security updates are backported. |
| 08:17.55 | Bushmills | ,versions noip2 |
| 08:17.57 | judd | Package noip2 on i386 -- lenny: 2.1.7-11; sid: 2.1.9-3 |
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| 08:18.12 | wernerdev | Is it do-able for a Desktop user to switch to Unstable?: Because that seems to be the only way to run up-to-date software on Debian... |
| 08:18.33 | dutchfish | fsio2, i know, that works well so far, but browsers are a special kind in the sence, that it goes more rapidly then other packages. |
| 08:18.51 | cahoot | wernerdev, there's backports |
| 08:18.52 | Bushmills | wernerdev: "doable", technically, yes |
| 08:18.58 | Bushmills | !sid |
| 08:18.58 | dpkg | sid is the <unstable> version of Debian. Sid is the destructive kid in Toy Story. It is NOT an acronym, but is sometimes backronymed Still In Development anyway. Do not use sid unless you have the skill to find your way out of the mess that broken packages may put you in; . Sid will never be released. See also <sid faq> <unstable>. |
| 08:19.17 | fsio2 | wernerdev: that is possible. but as i stated the distributions are up to date. they are just not distributing the latest release version. they are distributing supported versions generally speaking with the security updates applied. |
| 08:19.33 | wols_ | wernerdev: you've been told several times that you need to overcome your !sns, right? |
| 08:20.17 | wernerdev | wols_: Sns? |
| 08:20.22 | wols_ | !sns |
| 08:20.22 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 08:20.23 | wernerdev | About the version numbers? |
| 08:20.28 | wernerdev | Lol |
| 08:20.34 | fsio2 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox#Release_history |
| 08:20.59 | fsio2 | read that: mozilla has multiple supported releases |
| 08:21.01 | Agiofws | hi |
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| 08:21.21 | Agiofws | anyone know why my terminal or filemanager can't read those fonts ? |
| 08:21.31 | Agiofws | http://imagebin.org/156847 |
| 08:21.32 | Agiofws | ^^ |
| 08:21.33 | Agiofws | ? |
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| 08:22.36 | fsio2 | right now 3.6.17 is supported and so is 4.0.1. debian might be backporting security fixes for 3.5 still |
| 08:22.58 | wernerdev | dpkg: ssb |
| 08:22.58 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add ONLY a <deb-src> line for sid to /etc/apt/sources.list 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 08:22.59 | wols_ | fsio2: not just "might" |
| 08:23.10 | fsio2 | wols_ I figure they must be. |
| 08:24.04 | wols_ | Agiofws: those aren't fonts. what's your locale set to? |
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| 08:24.06 | dutchfish | well, 4.0.1-2 is still in expirimental, i would not recommend that (yet) |
| 08:24.18 | Agiofws | Only some hints: usually we use mount option "iocharset=utf-8" to |
| 08:24.23 | Agiofws | > solve the ms-windows disk mount problems. if it is not utf-8, try |
| 08:24.24 | Agiofws | > cp936. |
| 08:24.24 | Agiofws | ? |
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| 08:24.35 | wols_ | !enter |
| 08:24.35 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 08:24.48 | Agiofws | /dev/sdb1 on /media/disk type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal,uid=1000,shortname=winnt) |
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| 08:25.02 | wols_ | *sigh* |
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| 08:26.06 | xio3 | gnu/linux is so much better than microsoft windows for this exact reason: it doesn't go with the beta versions of everything (firefox 4.x) |
| 08:26.07 | xio3 | lol |
| 08:27.07 | Agiofws | how do i set iocharset=utf-8 on the command line of mount ? |
| 08:27.34 | xio3 | if you really have to have the latest version try the beta or alpha releases of your favorite programs... not worth it. otherwise go with debian/ubuntu based distributions. then you get tested stable versions. |
| 08:28.29 | dutchfish | Agiofws, use instead vfat,rw,iocharset=iso8859-7 |
| 08:28.59 | wols_ | dutchfish: since he doesn't read the manpage of mount, he doesn't know how |
| 08:29.18 | dutchfish | ack |
| 08:29.26 | Agiofws | mount -t vfat -o iocharset=utf-8 /dev/sdb1 /media/disk |
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| 08:29.37 | Agiofws | BUT its gives me an error ... |
| 08:29.45 | Agiofws | missing codepage or helper program |
| 08:29.53 | wols_ | !tell Agiofws about enter |
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| 08:31.11 | Agiofws | http://imagebin.org/156848 |
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| 08:37.12 | wernerdev | Thanks for your info everyone. Might see if I can do a clean Ubuntu install just like Debian. |
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| 08:38.16 | roger21 | what is the exact prase about those who don't do it like unix system does are forced to di it anyway |
| 08:38.22 | roger21 | something like that |
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| 08:38.38 | wernerdev | Because yesterday I also asked about Banshee Media Player. Still version 1.6 while 2.1 was already released. A lot of fixes and new stuff which I will be missing then. |
| 08:38.46 | roger21 | about oses |
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| 08:39.03 | Agiofws | wols_, /dev/sdb1 on /media/disk type vfat (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,iocharset=iso8859-7) but its still showing question marks |
| 08:39.18 | jelly-home | Agiofws: are you using a custom kernel? |
| 08:39.18 | Agiofws | http://imagebin.org/156849 |
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| 08:39.27 | Agiofws | vanilla |
| 08:39.55 | jelly-home | Agiofws: CONFIG_NLS_UTF8 ? |
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| 08:40.14 | Agiofws | i would like to state that these files were copied from a Winblow machine |
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| 08:40.40 | wernerdev | Have a nice day everyone! |
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| 08:42.24 | Agiofws | ? |
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| 08:43.41 | wols_ | Agiofws: uname -a |
| 08:44.04 | Agiofws | Linux ixus 2.6.31.6 #6 SMP Mon Dec 20 02:25:30 EET 2010 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 08:44.36 | wols_ | then see what jelly-home asked you |
| 08:44.49 | wols_ | but we strongly suggest you run a normal squeeze kernel |
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| 08:46.10 | Agiofws | ok i fixed it |
| 08:47.00 | Agiofws | utf8 option in the fstab line worked now they display normally |
| 08:47.11 | Agiofws | thank you wols_ for your help |
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| 08:56.00 | jodeba_ | Hi, I got a thinkpad R61 and would like to enable trackpoint scrolling. I have found http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_configure_the_TrackPoint , but my question is, what is the proper method for debian squeeze? Is it the xinput method, the xorg.conf method the udev method or maybe something else? |
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| 08:57.39 | petemc | jodeba_: http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/Trackpoint |
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| 09:00.18 | jodeba_ | petemc: Thank you. I will go with the xinput method then. Another question regarding the xinput method, will it also the the best method in the future? ( Unlike the deprecated hal .fdi method from the past) |
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| 09:15.26 | Bartzy | Hi |
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| 09:15.53 | Bartzy | flush-0:16 - this process is taking 100% CPU of one of my cores, it never stops that. What is that process ? |
| 09:16.10 | Bartzy | It happens on more than one server, all of them are NFS clients if it has anything to do with it. |
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| 09:24.57 | jelly-home | Bartzy: sounds like a kernel thread that flashes dirty blocks to the block device. Dunno what device has major=0, minor=16 |
| 09:25.06 | jelly-home | flushes* |
| 09:27.20 | Bartzy | jelly-home: What does major and minor mean ? |
| 09:27.28 | Bartzy | jelly-home: And why does it taking so much CPU resources ? |
| 09:27.37 | Bartzy | NFS maybe ? |
| 09:27.50 | Bartzy | it's a NFS client. all of those servers that have this problem. |
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| 09:31.30 | wols_ | http://d01.megashares.com/dl/EPRdv1b/Fallout.Trilogy.xXrubiXx.WwW.DDL-IL.NeT.part1.rar |
| 09:31.33 | wols_ | http://d01.megashares.com/dl/uoiMkKU/Fallout.Trilogy.xXrubiXx.WwW.DDL-IL.NeT.part2.rar |
| 09:31.36 | wols_ | http://d01.megashares.com/dl/q997Cyg/Fallout.Trilogy.xXrubiXx.WwW.DDL-IL.NeT.part3.rar |
| 09:31.39 | wols_ | http://d01.megashares.com/dl/NGgMLQN/Fallout.Trilogy.xXrubiXx.WwW.DDL-IL.NeT.part4.rar |
| 09:31.42 | wols_ | Report harmful files |
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| 09:35.35 | Bartzy | jelly-home ? |
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| 09:37.44 | wols_ | Bartzy: devices in /dev have minor and major numbers. it's the way the kernel addresses them. and if this is a flush to/from a NFS mount it might have network issues or a simple NFS bug |
| 09:37.55 | wols_ | Bartzy: people don't like to debug NFS :) |
| 09:39.19 | Bartzy | wols_ : I'll copy my details from #linux |
| 09:39.32 | Bartzy | I exported a directory in /etc/exports, and used 'async' flag. in the client, the mount options I added are acdirmin=0, acdirmax=0. I did those 2 changes (server & client) in order to avoid the problem where the server saves something in the local directory being exported, and the client doesn't seeing that new file because of directory caching. |
| 09:39.41 | Bartzy | The problem is , I have a process in my clients, called flush-0:16, which takes 100% CPU of 1 core, constantly! Any idea ? |
| 09:39.44 | Bartzy | wols_ ^ |
| 09:40.50 | jelly-home | Bartzy: you've switched off [attribute] caching completely and wondering why the subsystem takes up more resources? |
| 09:41.32 | Bartzy | jelly-home: But it's only attribute caching! |
| 09:41.40 | Bartzy | not caching of files |
| 09:42.14 | jelly-home | Bartzy: well, does your application do lots of stat()? |
| 09:42.33 | Bartzy | jelly-home: I need to think on that for a sec :) |
| 09:42.51 | Bartzy | jelly-home: stat() is happening when you save a file/open a file ? |
| 09:43.07 | jelly-home | it depends on the application. |
| 09:43.16 | Bartzy | the application is gimp (batch mode) |
| 09:43.31 | jelly-home | I mean -- check for yourself |
| 09:43.33 | Bartzy | but I don't know the specifics. I guess it does something pretty regular |
| 09:44.16 | Bartzy | jelly-home: Is there any other way to avoid my initial problem (clients are not seeing files on server immediately when they're saved in the server itself ? |
| 09:45.23 | jelly-home | dunno, I'm not good with nfs |
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| 09:45.41 | wols_ | Bartzy: maybe you should check first if attribute caching is the reason the process uses 100% CPU first? |
| 09:46.09 | wols_ | e.g set everything back to standard and then change on configuration item at a time to see what triggers the problem |
| 09:46.41 | Bartzy | wols_: I can't my app won't work and won't generate the required traffic to trigger the problem |
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| 09:46.51 | gionnico | hello |
| 09:46.55 | Bartzy | There should be a '.' after "I can't" :) |
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| 09:47.13 | gionnico | i've just installed debian stable on an acer aspire one netbook. |
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| 09:47.31 | gionnico | i selected "standard desktop environment" and i'm presented with GDM. when I login, though, there is no gnome! |
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| 09:47.45 | gionnico | is it normal? i thought gnome was the standard desktop environment .... |
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| 09:47.58 | wols_ | gionnico: what's there then? and how did you install? netinst with network access, cd1, netinst without network? |
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| 09:48.30 | gionnico | netinst with network |
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| 09:49.00 | gionnico | wols_: well if i login with "standard desktop (gdm session)" i'm presented with GDM background and a mouse pointer .. |
| 09:49.09 | wols_ | it should be the standard. you can check what packages tasksel has. tasksel --list-tasks and then the --list-packages command |
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| 09:49.43 | wols_ | gionnico: dpkg -l |grep gnome lets you check what parts of gnome are installed if any |
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| 09:50.13 | gionnico | weird!! u desktop i print-server (i had deselected it) ..? |
| 09:50.24 | gionnico | i mail server?? |
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| 09:51.06 | wols_ | imho, tasksel is simply evil. use aptitude or apt-get |
| 09:51.28 | gionnico | wols_: i know but for 1st install maybe better to install its task.. |
| 09:51.38 | gionnico | so to be sure everything is ok for a desktop.. |
| 09:52.08 | wols_ | well, tasksel isn't making big problems: you can uninstall everything via aptitude if you want. no worries |
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| 09:53.04 | gionnico | wols_: then what to install gnome? apt-get install gnome |
| 09:53.08 | gionnico | will manage packages and configs? |
| 09:54.00 | wols_ | !install gnome |
| 09:54.00 | dpkg | To install GNOME: install the 'gnome' package to install everything, 'gnome-desktop-environment' for GNOME as defined by upstream, 'gnome-core' for a bit less and 'gnome-session' for the basic components actually needed to run a GNOME session. You will need Xorg installed as well, ask me about <install x>. http://wiki.debian.org/Gnome |
| 09:54.12 | wols_ | aptitude will always manage packages and configs, don't worry |
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| 09:55.40 | gionnico | tasksel really does is evil.. i did tasksel remove print-server and it's removing gtk glib gnome-vfs ... |
| 09:56.08 | gionnico | -_- so I had chosen well, but tasksel didn't recognize its OWN packages after it installed them in the right category |
| 09:56.27 | gionnico | apt-get remove tasksel ? |
| 09:56.30 | valdyn | gionnico: tasksel doesnt "recognise" anything, what do you mean? |
| 09:57.11 | Bartzy | wols_, jelly-home: Any other ideas or recommendations about my NFS issue? I'm really lost here :\ How can I verify what block device is using major number 0 and minor number 16 ? |
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| 09:57.16 | gionnico | valdyn: i had installed with standard desktop, ssh, laptop. after first start i did tasksel --list-tasks and desktop was unmarked, but print-server and mail-server was marked |
| 09:57.31 | gionnico | valdyn: how do tasksel know a "task" is installed? |
| 09:57.41 | valdyn | gionnico: no idea |
| 09:57.49 | gionnico | maybe it use some mark-packages |
| 09:57.56 | valdyn | gionnico: tasksel is for beginners, its useless for me |
| 09:58.19 | gionnico | valdyn: apt-get remove tasksel and i dont care of tasks anymore? |
| 09:58.24 | valdyn | gionnico: maybe tasksel was updated and the desktop task changed, who knows |
| 09:58.31 | valdyn | gionnico: sure you can remove tasksel |
| 09:59.00 | wols_ | gionnico: do you have a printer? |
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| 09:59.11 | wols_ | I mean connected to your acer netbook |
| 09:59.31 | gionnico | wols_: nope |
| 09:59.56 | gionnico | but why is tasksel remove print-server removing so much graphic packagesss |
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| 10:00.06 | wols_ | tasksel --list-packages print-server shows you exactly which packages make up this tasksel package. tasksel is simply a tool to install several packages at once via apt-get |
| 10:00.18 | gionnico | ahh ok i'll check |
| 10:00.42 | wols_ | cause printers need to print graphics and therefore need various graphics packages. also printer configuration has probably some GUI elements |
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| 10:01.14 | wols_ | I would let tasksel installed, and simply remove the packages, not via tasksel, you don't like |
| 10:01.34 | wols_ | like cups since you don't have a printer or hplip since you don't deal with hp hardware, etc |
| 10:01.35 | Bushmills | gionnico: probably cups dependencies. renderers for misc file formats |
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| 10:04.05 | gionnico | "desktop" task doesnt contain "gnome" anyways.. |
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| 10:05.51 | Bushmills | outrageous |
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| 10:06.53 | babilen | gionnico: It does, it is pulled in by desktop-base (which is also satisfied by kde-standard | xfce4 | wmaker ... |
| 10:07.00 | babilen | ) |
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| 10:08.06 | babilen | gionnico: But honestly, just install one of the metapackages pointed out by dpkg above with aptitude and you should be fine. I would go with gnome-session, but you might prefer a larger package. |
| 10:09.24 | wols_ | strangely that the longer people use debian the more minimal their installation preferences seem to get :) |
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| 10:09.56 | babilen | Indeed |
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| 10:10.47 | gionnico | !aptitude |
| 10:10.47 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, aptitude is a terminal-based package manager that can be used in a command-line mode (aptitude install foo ; aptitude remove goo) as well as a text user interface mode (just run "aptitude"). Ask me about <why aptitude> <why not aptitude> <aptitude-fu> <aptitude docs> or see http://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude |
| 10:11.12 | babilen | gionnico: /msg dpkg <factoid> (e.g. /msg dpkg aptitude-fu) |
| 10:11.16 | gionnico | how the heck do you install with aptitude? it couldn't be more complicate |
| 10:11.33 | macrobat | gionnico: man aptitude, it's easy |
| 10:11.38 | wols_ | gionnico: aptitude install <stuff>. exactly the same way as with apt-get |
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| 10:12.06 | babilen | gionnico: "aptitude install gnome-core" would install the gnome-core package. How is that complicated, please also take a look at the manpage, its documentation or the Debian reference. (/msg dpkg reference) |
| 10:12.06 | gionnico | i opened the curses |
| 10:12.23 | macrobat | press ?, then |
| 10:12.55 | wols_ | press f10 and you get a menu. that should be self explanatory |
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| 10:13.07 | babilen | I don't really use the aptitude interface ... |
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| 10:14.15 | gionnico | aptitude install gnome-core tells WARNING: unsecure packages: libnss3-1d |
| 10:14.21 | gionnico | if really go on write "Yes" |
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| 10:14.27 | gionnico | why this? |
| 10:14.31 | gionnico | i have stable debian |
| 10:15.20 | Bushmills | gionnico: debian-archive-keyring missing |
| 10:15.38 | babilen | gionnico: Run "aptitude update" and "aptitude install debian-archive-keyring" -- I have the feeling that something went wrong during your installation. |
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| 10:16.06 | gionnico | is debian keyring a tasksel package? |
| 10:16.11 | gionnico | if so tasksel gone crazy |
| 10:16.12 | Bushmills | nope |
| 10:16.30 | Bushmills | as in "it is not a *task*" |
| 10:17.27 | wols_ | *grmbl* getting old games to work is hard work |
| 10:17.44 | gionnico | like gtk1 ? |
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| 10:18.22 | Bushmills | dosemu? dosbox? |
| 10:19.10 | wols_ | Bushmills: worse. windows :( but that's OT here |
| 10:19.33 | wols_ | the dosbox ones work fine btw, you only have to figure them out once and they work forever :) |
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| 10:19.45 | everythingWorks | cool |
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| 10:21.11 | everythingWorks | how can i uninstall empathy? |
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| 10:21.29 | gionnico | s/how can /apt-get/ |
| 10:21.33 | babilen | everythingWorks: "aptitude remove empathy" comes to mind |
| 10:22.05 | everythingWorks | um...? |
| 10:22.06 | Bushmills | everythingWorks: how did you install it? |
| 10:22.11 | gionnico | why is aptitude better than apt-get ? |
| 10:22.18 | babilen | gionnico: /msg dpkg why aptitude |
| 10:22.19 | everythingWorks | It was already installed if i installed debian |
| 10:22.34 | cahoot | will pull some dependencies too? |
| 10:22.43 | everythingWorks | But i dont need this program |
| 10:23.02 | wols_ | everythingWorks: it is a dependency of gnome |
| 10:23.10 | wols_ | everythingWorks: then uninstall it |
| 10:23.32 | Bushmills | braces for next question "how can i keep it from uninstalling gnome" |
| 10:24.07 | wols_ | shh.. can't give away all the excitement! |
| 10:24.54 | Bushmills | who wants to keep gnome anyway |
| 10:25.05 | babilen | everythingWorks: Ok, so you installed the desktop task. If you really want to uninstall it you have to make sure that the rest of the gnome desktop stays. You can, for example, do that by either: Installing a smaller gnome metapackage (/msg dpkg install gnome) or by marking all dependency of the "gnome" package as not automatically installed with "aptitude unmarkauto '~R^gnome' '~RRecommends:^gnome'" |
| 10:25.05 | everythingWorks | wols_ yeah, its a gnome dependency, thats what i noticed to so im confused. |
| 10:25.18 | wols_ | they still have devs, so at least someone must like gnome, Bushmills. hard to believe but it must be true |
| 10:25.24 | avendael | !why aptitude |
| 10:25.24 | dpkg | aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution and will often find a solution where apt-get gives up. It can be used from the command line like apt-get plus an interactive resolver makes it much easier to recover from broken dependencies. It has advanced search capabilities (see <aptitude search>). For some upgrades (lenny->squeeze) apt-get is better though. Read the release notes. |
| 10:25.43 | wols_ | avendael: use /msg dpkg why aptitude instead |
| 10:25.45 | everythingWorks | Why you do not like gnome, what do you prefer? |
| 10:26.06 | wols_ | !start a DE war |
| 10:26.06 | dpkg | Emacs sucks! |
| 10:26.17 | bocaneri | Vim blows! |
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| 10:26.21 | wols_ | dpkg: low blow, very low |
| 10:26.21 | dpkg | wols_: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 10:26.23 | babilen | everythingWorks: Gnome is fine, but people have different tastes. I use awesomewm, other use fluxbox, kde, lxde or fvwm ... |
| 10:26.38 | avendael | wols_: Ok. Sorry. |
| 10:26.52 | Bushmills | everythingWorks: i run components of gnome as desktop . but i don't have gnome installed :) |
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| 10:27.25 | wols_ | speaking of eyecandy and its uselessness. is there a pretty display manager which isn't as bloated as gdm or kdm? I need to login and choose my WM it needs to run in an aesthetically pleasing fashion |
| 10:27.42 | everythingWorks | hm.. I do like gnome. Its the standard DE of debian, as i noticed. |
| 10:28.00 | everythingWorks | I did just install debian, and configured a irc :D Im happy thus |
| 10:28.02 | wols_ | everythingWorks: debian has no standard DE |
| 10:28.22 | valdyn | once you get to know a tiling wm properly you just cant go back to something like gnome ;) |
| 10:28.23 | gionnico | wols_: try slim |
| 10:28.25 | Bushmills | wols_: check out qingy. not really a DM, but you can select on launch x sessions with it |
| 10:28.26 | babilen | everythingWorks: Keep on using it then, there is nothing inherently bad about it especially if *you* like it. It is your system! |
| 10:28.34 | gionnico | just a box in the background, very mininal |
| 10:28.35 | everythingWorks | But what i do not understand is why "empathy" does have dependencies to gnome, and why i need to uninstall gnome if i want to uninstall empathy |
| 10:28.37 | bocaneri | Nevertheless, it's what debian installed; first thing I did after Squeeze woke up was to install KDE. |
| 10:28.53 | Bushmills | everythingWorks: because of those dependencies |
| 10:29.06 | Bushmills | (that's for the "why") |
| 10:29.08 | wols_ | Bushmills: sounds intriguing |
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| 10:29.34 | Bushmills | select *and* launch i meant to say |
| 10:29.34 | babilen | everythingWorks: You don't need to uninstall Gnome (as in the desktop environment) but empathy is a dependency of the "gnome" metapackage. Once you remove empathy the metapackage is removed as well and all its dependencies/recommendations along with it. |
| 10:30.11 | wols_ | everythingWorks: "gnome" is a metapackage so you don't have to manually install 500 different packages. but that also means if you remove one of those 500 packages which devs designated as "gnome standard install", gnome package needs to be removed as well |
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| 10:30.24 | babilen | everythingWorks: I told you how to get around that earlier. |
| 10:30.53 | everythingWorks | ok, now i do understand :D |
| 10:31.15 | babilen | everythingWorks: If you take the first route (installing a smaller metapackage) you can also "aptitude unmarkauto" all packages you want to keep. |
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| 10:31.39 | everythingWorks | so this programs like "empathy" belongs to gnome as datatypes to c++ ? ;) |
| 10:31.51 | Bushmills | "why "empathy" does have dependencies to gnome" - because gnome deems it to be an essential part, or at least a package on the list of those belonging to "a gnome desktop installation" |
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| 10:32.16 | Bushmills | wihthout those, there'd be nothing left of gnome |
| 10:32.19 | babilen | exactly |
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| 10:33.21 | Bushmills | you don't want the "full" gnome, then don't install gnome. |
| 10:33.27 | gionnico | do empathy support both SIP and remote blackboard / file transfer / chat ? |
| 10:33.33 | gionnico | like netmeeting ? |
| 10:33.51 | valdyn | gionnico: i dont know about "remote blackboard" |
| 10:34.01 | Bushmills | no SIP to my knowledge |
| 10:34.02 | valdyn | gionnico: sip : yes, various protocols: yes |
| 10:34.08 | everythingWorks | Bushmills: I do "only" want the DE and the window manager. I dont want preinstalled crap. :D |
| 10:34.18 | everythingWorks | like messengers, etc |
| 10:34.19 | gionnico | valdyn: you draw and everyone in the conference can see your drawing and also draw/delete |
| 10:34.26 | Bushmills | everythingWorks: that's why you wouldn't want to install gnome, the package |
| 10:34.29 | babilen | Bushmills, everythingWorks: I assume that everythingWorks installed "gnome" by installing the desktop task during the installatio without being aware of the implications. |
| 10:34.46 | gionnico | terrible implications |
| 10:34.52 | valdyn | everythingWorks: why care about packages that you dont need? |
| 10:34.54 | everythingWorks | babilen: thats my assumption, too! :O |
| 10:34.56 | wols_ | Bushmills: what happens to qingy if there is no framebuffer? can I still login? |
| 10:35.03 | babilen | gionnico: You get what you ask for |
| 10:35.08 | Bushmills | you may be better off to hand-pick the gnome components which you actually want |
| 10:35.14 | Bushmills | wols_: yes. works in text mode too |
| 10:35.44 | Bushmills | there's also a hotkey to toggle between text and frame buffer graphics |
| 10:35.55 | babilen | everythingWorks: Which is why *I* typically recommend not to install the desktop task, but to install x and a desktop environment/window manager of you choice *after* the initial installation. |
| 10:36.08 | valdyn | Bushmills: telepathy-sofiasip - SIP connection manager for the Telepathy framework |
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| 10:36.21 | Bushmills | in text mode, it looks like any old getty, except the addidional lauch selection menu |
| 10:36.50 | Bushmills | valdyn: ah, good. thanks. must have been added during the last few years |
| 10:36.56 | silidan | hi, is there any alternative to linuxsampler (which has been remobved from debian cause of legal issues) ? |
| 10:37.07 | valdyn | silidan: tell us what it does |
| 10:37.19 | wols_ | Bushmills: not too bad, but that default theme there needs work. lots of it |
| 10:37.31 | babilen | silidan: The bug that lead to its removal might list alternatives. |
| 10:37.45 | everythingWorks | thanks for the information and the suggesstions @ all, thanks :D |
| 10:37.49 | everythingWorks | really helped me |
| 10:37.54 | Bushmills | wols_: http://scarydevilmonastery.net/qingy/ a few more screenshots |
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| 10:38.30 | babilen | everythingWorks: Have fun! |
| 10:38.32 | Bushmills | note login backdrop and desktop wallpaper are identical, providing a "seamless" session startup |
| 10:39.02 | babilen | silidan: No, it does not. |
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| 10:42.46 | Bushmills | however, it's the mist whightleight x session starting solution which provides a login prompt i'm aware of |
| 10:42.48 | Bushmills | most |
| 10:43.23 | gionnico | how can I remove gnome-core and install gnome-session ? |
| 10:43.39 | gionnico | without having to remove eveything then reinstall almost everything? just remove "the diff" ? |
| 10:43.50 | Bushmills | gionnico: apt-cache depends gnome-session show the dependencies |
| 10:44.10 | Bushmills | you can toggle package state of installed stuff in aptitude |
| 10:44.29 | babilen | gionnico: "aptitude install gnome-session gnome-core-" |
| 10:44.30 | Bushmills | (i.e. remove the "auto" tag) |
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| 10:49.10 | Yossarian | hi peeps |
| 10:49.29 | Yossarian | i'm rather new to debian and so far the only thing that bothers me is the font rendering |
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| 10:49.50 | Yossarian | is there any way i can get the ubuntu-ish look? i presume it's the cairo font rendering |
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| 10:54.20 | Yossarian | anyone here? |
| 10:55.02 | Woet | Yossarian: http://lovingthepenguin.blogspot.com/2010/07/ubuntu-font-rendering-in-debian-squeeze.html |
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| 10:55.26 | Yossarian | i saw this one, but honestly, i'm having trouble with it @^^ |
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| 10:56.02 | Woet | okay, what are you having trouble with? |
| 10:56.18 | Woet | did you try his script too? |
| 10:56.18 | Woet | http://lovingthepenguin.blogspot.com/2010/09/scrpit-for-building-debian-squeeze.html |
| 10:56.45 | Yossarian | i tried to save and run the script, didn't seem to do much |
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| 11:01.15 | gionnico | how can i install firefox? |
| 11:01.18 | gionnico | firefox 4 ? |
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| 11:02.03 | homie | ,firefox ? |
| 11:02.08 | homie | !firefox |
| 11:02.08 | dpkg | Mozilla Firefox is replaced by Iceweasel in Debian. Ask me about <iceweasel> and <why iceweasel>. |
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| 11:02.33 | homie | else you get it from their site |
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| 11:02.46 | gionnico | is there iceweasel 4? |
| 11:02.56 | gionnico | is iceweasel profile-compatible with firefox ? |
| 11:02.59 | zapadlo | gionnico There is 5 too |
| 11:03.13 | gionnico | zapadlo: how do i install iceweasel 4 in debian 6? |
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| 11:03.43 | Yossarian | Woet, mind if i PM you? |
| 11:03.52 | Yossarian | this script is confusing me |
| 11:03.59 | Woet | Yossarian: i've never used debian desktop, so I don't think i can help you at all |
| 11:04.03 | zapadlo | gionnico http://mozilla.debian.net/ |
| 11:04.10 | Yossarian | oh i see |
| 11:04.11 | Yossarian | :) |
| 11:04.17 | Woet | but just ask #debian so 1050 other people might be able to help you |
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| 11:06.49 | Yossarian | guys, anyone else can help me with getting cairo fonts in debian? |
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| 11:17.26 | gionnico | how do i get iceweasel-l10n-it-4.0 ? |
| 11:17.37 | gionnico | mozilla.debian backport didnt give the package |
| 11:18.53 | valdyn | Yancho: what is "cairo fonts" ? |
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| 11:19.54 | valdyn | gionnico: if you need newer iceweasel than debian/stable has i recommend you use firefox from mozilla.com |
| 11:20.20 | valdyn | gionnico: download , extract to $HOME or any place of your choice |
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| 11:25.38 | gionnico | i'd like to keep gedit and some stuff |
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| 11:25.57 | gionnico | aptitude install gnome-session gnome-core- want to remove gedit |
| 11:26.02 | gionnico | how can i tell to "keep" ? |
| 11:26.05 | gionnico | in one command? |
| 11:26.24 | gionnico | or to add "gedit" to "manually installed" packages, not only gnome-core dependency? |
| 11:26.25 | babilen | gionnico: "aptitude unmarkauto gedit" or add it to the above command "aptitude install gnome-session gedit gnome-core-" |
| 11:26.45 | gionnico | unmarkauto is like "mark manual" ? |
| 11:26.54 | babilen | exactly |
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| 11:33.04 | gadago | hi all, I was wondering if anyone could advise of some decent backup software that's supports tapes drives |
| 11:33.25 | gadago | ideally i would like it to support backing up qemu-kvm virtual machines |
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| 11:38.44 | gionnico | can i use experimental only for one package? |
| 11:39.03 | gionnico | so that apt-get upgrade wont overwrite ? |
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| 11:43.23 | stew | gionnico: /msg dpkg exerimental ; man apt_preferences |
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| 11:44.46 | thewanderer1 | gadago: is the tape drive a block device with random access, or rather more like sequential access without reverse seek? |
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| 11:46.44 | nevyn | gadago: real tape drives? |
| 11:47.21 | nevyn | gadago: amanda for something simple and easy. or backula for the full enterprisey backup solution |
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| 11:50.17 | niteye | hello there |
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| 11:50.35 | tmp_ | hello |
| 11:50.48 | gadago | thanks nevyn |
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| 11:51.08 | gadago | does amanda have any sort of vm host support then? |
| 11:51.19 | valdyn | gadago: no |
| 11:51.34 | valdyn | gadago: what does a backup tool have that needs vm host support? |
| 11:51.34 | niteye | i'm having a bit of trouble with suspend-to-RAM, it works but only sometimes, many times when i wake up the computer it whirrs on but nothing shows up on screen (no signal) and it doesn't respond to anything (can't even turn capslock on and off, it stays in the situation it was) |
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| 11:52.09 | nevyn | valdyn: capabilities for quiessing the guest and doign backups basically is the usual sort of thing that's required |
| 11:52.15 | niteye | and i have no idea how to start looking to what might be wrong, since i cant check the logs right after it freezes and i don't even know what to look for in the logs |
| 11:52.26 | gadago | so i can backup virtual machines runing on a qemu-kvm virtual host |
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| 11:52.58 | nevyn | gadago: I don't know you'd need to investigate (backula is the more likely to have this sort of functionality) |
| 11:53.09 | gadago | okay that's great thanks |
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| 11:54.06 | valdyn | nevyn: thats not exactly vm specific |
| 11:54.33 | nevyn | valdyn: yeah it is. |
| 11:54.54 | nevyn | valdyn: you need to have a mechinism to from the host suspend and sync io in the guest. |
| 11:55.22 | valdyn | nevyn: no, youd do the same for your database or *whatever* system that keeps non-atomic data on disk |
| 11:55.23 | nevyn | valdyn: you need something similar but different for RDBMS's |
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| 11:55.39 | nevyn | right. |
| 11:56.05 | valdyn | to bad linux has no vss |
| 11:56.09 | nevyn | valdyn: the point was not the general mechinism but specifically support for doing this with a particular virtualiser. |
| 11:56.14 | nevyn | vss? |
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| 11:57.31 | valdyn | nevyn: windows subsystem, general solution to guarantee snapshot consistinency |
| 11:57.42 | nevyn | it's not really. |
| 11:58.14 | nevyn | snapshot consistancy isn't a problem |
| 11:58.17 | nevyn | lvm can do that. |
| 11:58.24 | valdyn | nevyn: it cannot |
| 11:58.33 | valdyn | nevyn: or lvm alone is useless |
| 11:59.11 | valdyn | nevyn: lvm just covers the fs layer, not the application |
| 12:00.15 | valdyn | or uh, it doesnt even cover the fs layer I think |
| 12:00.20 | nevyn | but vss is just a voluntary framework. |
| 12:00.24 | valdyn | so even more useless |
| 12:00.30 | valdyn | nevyn: thats true |
| 12:00.38 | valdyn | nevyn: it can only ever be volutary |
| 12:00.39 | nevyn | like it's a standard coms mechinism |
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| 12:01.45 | valdyn | nevyn: its not possible to make an app push consistent data to disk if the app doesnt "want" to |
| 12:02.14 | nevyn | valdyn: apps on linux should always have a consistant on disk state. |
| 12:02.22 | valdyn | nevyn: yea |
| 12:02.39 | valdyn | nevyn: "should", but they don't |
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| 12:02.44 | nevyn | if they don't it's a BUG |
| 12:03.47 | valdyn | nevyn: already dpkg cannot be fixed to do this |
| 12:04.45 | *** join/#debian StefandeVries (~stefan@unaffiliated/stefandevries) |
| 12:04.49 | valdyn | ( well, maybe it could, but its bugged that way ) |
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| 12:10.20 | medusaXX | hi |
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| 12:11.18 | medusaXX | what is actually the debian way to disable a daemon temporarily so that it is not getting started at the boot process? |
| 12:11.42 | medusaXX | some daemons have appropriate configuration variables in their /etc/default file, but some not |
| 12:11.50 | medusaXX | what can I do then? |
| 12:11.59 | dym | rc.d |
| 12:12.22 | dym | http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/28 |
| 12:12.55 | medusaXX | isn't that article outdated since we have this new dependency based system? |
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| 12:13.38 | valdyn | medusaXX: the "easy" way is just chmod -x /etc/init.d/file |
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| 12:14.19 | medusaXX | i used to remove the symlinks in the /etc/rc?.d folders, but this lead to the problem to remember the "value" |
| 12:14.29 | medusaXX | ok |
| 12:14.31 | valdyn | medusaXX: that was never a good idea |
| 12:14.50 | valdyn | medusaXX: instead you should have set K** symlinks where you had S** symlinks |
| 12:14.55 | medusaXX | what about these update-.... commands? |
| 12:15.20 | medusaXX | what does K and what does S mean? |
| 12:15.29 | Dewi | medusaXX: kill and start. let a tool handle them tho |
| 12:15.31 | valdyn | medusaXX: K = stop, S = start |
| 12:15.45 | Dewi | medusaXX: which is what the update-rc.d script does. or rcconf, etc |
| 12:15.56 | phogg | K = kill |
| 12:16.01 | valdyn | medusaXX: the symlinks are set by packages / debian tools |
| 12:16.06 | medusaXX | update-rc.d belongs to the old system right? |
| 12:16.15 | valdyn | medusaXX: the actual init scripts are like config files |
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| 12:16.41 | Dewi | medusaXX: as far as I know it's still the most stanard tool |
| 12:16.53 | medusaXX | there are now these headers in the init scripts |
| 12:16.58 | Dewi | I prefer rcconf |
| 12:17.00 | medusaXX | and somehow debian generates the links from them |
| 12:17.12 | valdyn | medusaXX: yes, man insserv |
| 12:17.13 | Dewi | medusaXX: don't they just affect the order? |
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| 12:18.01 | medusaXX | so insserv generates the links from the data given in the init script headers? |
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| 12:18.08 | babilen | yes |
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| 12:18.16 | valdyn | Dewi: and the runlevel where its supposed to be running or not running |
| 12:18.18 | medusaXX | can i tell insserv to skip an init script? |
| 12:18.35 | medusaXX | or is the only way to make it unaccessible? |
| 12:18.46 | medusaXX | like proposed above |
| 12:19.09 | babilen | disable it -- either with tools such as rcconf/sysv-rc-conf or with mv/rm/ln (S links to K links) |
| 12:19.26 | babilen | update-rc.d as well |
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| 12:19.58 | valdyn | babilen: would insserv not override those modifications? |
| 12:20.07 | medusaXX | yea that is what i asked myself |
| 12:20.50 | valdyn | medusaXX: ive had this topic *alot* in here, but somehow i keep sticking to chmod -x |
| 12:21.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1089] by debhelper |
| 12:21.07 | valdyn | medusaXX: thats not recommended |
| 12:21.29 | medusaXX | chmod -x ? |
| 12:21.40 | medusaXX | it's a bit 'dirty' |
| 12:21.44 | Dewi | valdyn: is there a tool that can generate init.d scripts easily? |
| 12:21.59 | valdyn | medusaXX: yea, thats what everyone tells me, but i cannot see where its dirty |
| 12:22.01 | medusaXX | i would prefer to know what the 'right' way is |
| 12:22.07 | nkuttler | Dewi: have a look at /etc/init.d/skeleton |
| 12:22.20 | medusaXX | valdyn: suppose there is a package upgrade and the file is replaced |
| 12:22.23 | Dewi | nkuttler: yeah, it's generally not a good idea to repeat yourself in software tho |
| 12:22.28 | valdyn | medusaXX: that cannot happen |
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| 12:22.48 | medusaXX | does apt keep the file permissions? |
| 12:22.58 | valdyn | medusaXX: the symlinks can be changed by debian depending on how you set them up ( missing K -> S is set ) |
| 12:23.01 | medusaXX | i made the experience that apt doesn't care about them |
| 12:23.13 | valdyn | medusaXX: apt knows common files and config files |
| 12:23.23 | nkuttler | medusaXX: dpkg-statoverride |
| 12:23.24 | valdyn | medusaXX: config files arent changed if you modify them |
| 12:23.35 | babilen | valdyn: No, it works. There was a long thread on debian-devel about it .. I'll hunt it down |
| 12:23.44 | fbs | libdb4.7++-dev: Depends: libdb4.7-dev (= 4.7.25-9) but 4.7.25-19 is installed. |
| 12:23.46 | medusaXX | which leads to the problem that my config files become outdated |
| 12:23.58 | fbs | is there any way to fix it? Or should i remove libdb4.7-dev? |
| 12:23.59 | medusaXX | only because i want to keep the daemon disabled for some time |
| 12:24.04 | valdyn | medusaXX: *but* chances are you get outdated config files and the recent one put at .dpkg-dist |
| 12:24.23 | medusaXX | which creates additional work |
| 12:24.29 | valdyn | medusaXX: but thats a none issue for me, because ill see it before I chmod +x |
| 12:24.32 | Dewi | medusaXX: additional compared to what? |
| 12:24.34 | medusaXX | this is the reason why it's 'dirty' |
| 12:25.00 | medusaXX | compared to the ideal solution to be found |
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| 12:25.22 | Dewi | medusaXX: well some kind of merge support is supposedly coming |
| 12:25.37 | Dewi | medusaXX: but personally I don't feel comfortable unless I'm using a tool like kdiff3 |
| 12:25.45 | valdyn | medusaXX: i have more problems manually finding what i changed in the rcX.d directories than seeing that .dpkg-dist file |
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| 12:26.25 | medusaXX | my idea what be to have some configuration file where you can clearly see which daemons are currently deactivated |
| 12:26.29 | medusaXX | *would |
| 12:26.47 | Dewi | medusaXX: that's why I always liked rcconf |
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| 12:27.00 | medusaXX | ok i need to have a look at this tool |
| 12:27.02 | Dewi | however it's probably not doing it the "right way" anymore |
| 12:27.11 | Dewi | I doubt it has been updated for insserv |
| 12:27.13 | valdyn | medusaXX: that file you get via "ls -R /etc/rc*.d > file" |
| 12:27.42 | Dewi | valdyn: that doesn't show the disabled things at all |
| 12:27.44 | medusaXX | i would see which of them are activated not the other way around? |
| 12:27.55 | valdyn | Dewi: umm? |
| 12:28.01 | Dewi | valdyn: because they have no symlinks |
| 12:28.10 | valdyn | Dewi: not having a symlink is a bug |
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| 12:28.17 | Dewi | valdyn: debian ships with bugs? |
| 12:28.23 | valdyn | Dewi: disabling is done by setting K** |
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| 12:28.34 | medusaXX | hm |
| 12:28.50 | valdyn | Dewi: Im talking about user modifications, not what debian ships |
| 12:29.09 | medusaXX | now i understand what you said earlier |
| 12:29.12 | valdyn | Dewi: debian enables everything by default so theres no link missing |
| 12:29.15 | medusaXX | placing a custom K** link |
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| 12:29.39 | medusaXX | but what is about the insserv override? |
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| 12:29.47 | valdyn | medusaXX: yea, right, now babilen said that insserv will respect K** too, which I didnt know |
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| 12:30.23 | valdyn | 14:23 < babilen> valdyn: No, it works. There was a long thread on debian-devel about it .. I'll hunt it down |
| 12:30.32 | cocoloa | hey! i think/know that my permissions are f***ed up, but everytime i try to initialize a git repo in a dir with 755 permissions i get '/path/to/repo/:Permission denied' and when i just try to create a new dir or touch a file then i get 'Permission denied', too - but doing it as root is not a clever idea, so basically my question is: can i fix this mess? how? |
| 12:30.54 | medusaXX | so insserv first scans through all init.d scripts, builds it's internal order and then checks for custom links |
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| 12:31.00 | Dewi | cocoloa: if the dir is owned by you, 755 is enough |
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| 12:31.15 | valdyn | medusaXX: not custom links in general, i dont think so |
| 12:31.19 | Dewi | cocoloa: if it's a group ownership you probably want 775 (and 664 for files) |
| 12:31.19 | *** part/#debian celthunder (~celthunde@rofltech.net) |
| 12:31.19 | valdyn | medusaXX: but K** |
| 12:31.24 | cocoloa | Dewi: the dirs are all 755, but i can't do anything without sudo |
| 12:31.42 | Dewi | cocoloa: then log in as the owner :P |
| 12:31.47 | medusaXX | but how can insserv know that some link is expressly customized and not simply wrong? |
| 12:31.53 | valdyn | medusaXX: change your S** numbering on 2 services, see what insserv makes of that |
| 12:31.57 | cocoloa | Dewi: i'm logged in as the owner! |
| 12:32.02 | medusaXX | alright |
| 12:32.04 | everythingWorks | what are the "standaard system utilities", which i can install, when i install debian? ( The install helper asks me ) |
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| 12:32.26 | Dewi | cocoloa: what you've said doesn't add up. |
| 12:32.28 | medusaXX | thank you for the impulses |
| 12:32.34 | everythingWorks | [ http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6559846/debinsta1.PNG ] |
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| 12:32.45 | Dewi | cocoloa: 755 is effectively read-write for the owner and read-only for everyone else |
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| 12:32.59 | cocoloa | Dewi: well, i just realized that maybe it could be the ownership of all the executables in /usr/bin... |
| 12:33.05 | thewanderer1 | when booting, dbus is not started and some NFS filesystems are not mounted. where would I find the boot log or how to make all init scripts run, apart from catting the commands to /etc/rc.local? |
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| 12:33.32 | Dewi | cocoloa: are you keeping all your executables in a git repo? |
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| 12:34.10 | cocoloa | Dewi: NO! |
| 12:34.18 | scoobertron | I am using rsync to make a full backup of a debian system. Do I need to preserve hardlinks? Are there any important system files that are hardlinked? |
| 12:35.04 | Dewi | scoobertron: saves space anyway, I'd do it |
| 12:35.13 | cocoloa | Dewi: but i just found out that my excessive use of sudo lead to the fact that 'root' is listed as author of basically anything...that's a real mess! and quite stupid! |
| 12:35.45 | Dewi | cocoloa: fortunately chown and chmod have -R to work recursively |
| 12:36.02 | Dewi | cocoloa: sudo chown -R cocoloa:cocoloa /path |
| 12:36.21 | cocoloa | Dewi: so how would i do it properly for ~/ ? chown -R ~/* ? |
| 12:36.38 | cocoloa | oh, forgot the username... |
| 12:36.50 | Dewi | cocoloa: ~ with no username defaults to your home path |
| 12:36.56 | cookiemon5ter | no need for * |
| 12:37.05 | Dewi | cocoloa: * will skip the .dotfiles |
| 12:37.21 | cocoloa | Dewi: oh, right, didn't think about that |
| 12:37.25 | MrFrood | everythingWorks: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45804 |
| 12:37.25 | Dewi | cocoloa: um be careful with ~ in conjunction with sudo tho :) |
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| 12:37.32 | netanel | hey all |
| 12:37.35 | Dewi | cocoloa: it might mean /root depending on how you do it |
| 12:37.48 | jelly-home | Bartzy: no idea, sorry. Try asking in ##kernel. And that 0:16 device is probably something nfs-related, not an actual device |
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| 12:38.09 | Bartzy | jelly-home: Yeah, didn't find it in /dev at all... Thanks for your help :) |
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| 12:39.30 | cocoloa | Dewi: "chown -R cocoloa:cocoloa ~/" is running right now...let's hope that this will not cause damage ;)...may take a while ;) |
| 12:39.38 | everythingWorks | MrFrood: didnt knew there is this forum, lol. Thanks anyway. Now i know where to start searching |
| 12:39.54 | MrFrood | everythingWorks: http://wiki.debian.org/tasksel |
| 12:40.10 | cocoloa | Dewi: well, but recursively changing the dotfiles would be a good idea, too, wouldn't it? |
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| 12:40.54 | everythingWorks | thanks again |
| 12:41.45 | MrFrood | !tell everythingWorks about standard task |
| 12:41.53 | gpa_ | hi guys |
| 12:42.00 | gpa_ | i want to ask something |
| 12:42.00 | Dewi | cocoloa: should be fine, yes |
| 12:42.08 | babilen | gpa_: Please do |
| 12:42.18 | gpa_ | i installed debian squeeze on my pc |
| 12:42.27 | babilen | !tell gpa_ -about enter |
| 12:43.11 | gpa_ | after i install vga driver from nvdia site, my pc always restart as soon as i play a video |
| 12:43.24 | gpa_ | my video card is gf 6600LE |
| 12:43.37 | gpa_ | what was wrong? |
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| 12:44.54 | babilen | gpa_: Unfortunately we can not support the NVIDIA drivers from their website, but only those that ship with Debian. (/msg dpkg nvidia -- /msg dpkg nvidia dkms) -- I would strongly recommend to remove the NVIDIA driver (ask #nvidia how to do that) and use the Debian method. |
| 12:45.07 | MrFrood | gpa_: best to install from the non-free repros than the nvdia site |
| 12:45.28 | babilen | gpa_: We would also need to see your /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old which you can provide on http://paste.debian.net |
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| 12:46.30 | cocoloa | ok, but how would i do that? "chown -R cocoloa:cocoloa ~/.*" obviously wasn't the right way to go... |
| 12:46.59 | gpa_ | babilen: i've already done it. completely remove the drivers |
| 12:47.42 | babilen | gpa_: Wonderful, then follow the "/msg dpkg nvidia dkms" factoid, restart your system and try to reproduce the error. If it happens paste both logfiles to http://paste.debian.net |
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| 12:48.41 | cocoloa | Dewi: and "chown -R cocoloa:cocoloa ~/" also didn't really change the ownership |
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| 12:49.25 | Fernandos | Where can I find the Contants like in example DEB_AUTHOR which I need to insert into ms zshrc?? |
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| 12:50.04 | Dewi | cocoloa: it worries me that you didn't have 'sudo' in that command |
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| 12:50.48 | Dewi | cocoloa: did you just chown /root to yourself away from root? |
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| 12:51.03 | MrFrood | Dewi: don't you mean 'su -c' ? |
| 12:51.16 | Dewi | MrFrood: no, that would be even more likely to |
| 12:51.32 | Dewi | MrFrood: ... wouldn't it? |
| 12:51.41 | cocoloa | Dewi: so "sudo chown -R cocoloa:cocoloa ~/" and "sudo chown -R cocoloa:cocoloa ~/.*" for the dotfiles? |
| 12:51.56 | cocoloa | Dewi: and no for the pseudo-root question - i forgot the sudo! |
| 12:52.06 | Dewi | cocoloa: second is unnecessary, you included everything by not using a * the first time |
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| 12:52.25 | cocoloa | Dewi: i didn't, but thx! |
| 12:52.27 | jelly-home | cocoloa: chown -R will include dot files |
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| 12:52.48 | netanel | hey all, i got some kernel oops in one of my server, and i open a bug in apache about that (related with apache2 process) but i think it hav esomething with debian also, should i open a bug in debian? |
| 12:53.32 | cocoloa | Ah, that feels great! |
| 12:53.41 | cocoloa | jelly-home: yeah, i just realized that |
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| 12:54.18 | cocoloa | jelly-home: well, but some dotfiles in ~/ are still owned by root |
| 12:54.26 | Fernandos | netanel: can you create paste your logs somewhere? |
| 12:54.34 | netanel | yep |
| 12:54.46 | MrFrood | Dewi: just trying to point out that debian does not have sudo configureed by default... |
| 12:54.49 | jelly-home | only tools meant to be user interactively, like shells, ls and file managers discriminate against dotfiles |
| 12:54.54 | netanel | https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=51325 |
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| 12:55.20 | netanel | i dont know if it have anything with debian / apache and maybe is an kernel bug, I'm not sure where to post it. |
| 12:56.16 | Dewi | MrFrood: I see, yeah. I thought you were talking about when shell expansions happen, which varies a bit between those methods |
| 12:56.30 | cocoloa | jelly-home: i don't really understand why chown skipped some dotfiles in ~/ |
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| 12:56.30 | Dewi | MrFrood: in ways I am never too confident about :P |
| 12:56.47 | jelly-home | netanel: if your debian-provided kernel crashed, file a bug against its package, linux-image-$(uname -r). But you should try to verify it's not filed already. |
| 12:57.08 | netanel | i was google about that and search at the debian bugzilla |
| 12:57.11 | jelly-home | cocoloa: are those normal files or symlinks? |
| 12:57.12 | netanel | didnt found nothing like that |
| 12:57.14 | cocoloa | jelly-home: arbitrary ones, like .zshrc - but also .emacs which i totally would like to own |
| 12:57.24 | cocoloa | jelly-home: normal files |
| 12:57.29 | cocoloa | jelly-home: and dirs |
| 12:57.47 | jelly-home | cocoloa: if you ran it as root, it should have fixed them all |
| 12:58.51 | cocoloa | jelly-home: right, the first time i suffixed ~/ with * and somehow that left out some dotdirs/files |
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| 12:59.54 | jelly-home | well, if you ask for help you ought to paste the EXACT commands you [have] run |
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| 13:00.10 | Fernandos | is it possible to install stuff with apt in a "jail" and then ./configure and make and make install it outside of the jail then? |
| 13:00.13 | cocoloa | jelly-home: btw, how do i set up a pseudo root? a new user with root permissions for anything (it's stupid, i know!) - without using sudo? |
| 13:00.26 | jelly-home | cocoloa: why? |
| 13:00.42 | Fernandos | so make install outside of the jail and ./configure + make inside of |
| 13:00.43 | cocoloa | jelly-home: just for fun...errr: scientific interest! |
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| 13:01.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1097] by debhelper |
| 13:01.27 | jelly-home | cocoloa: if you state the intended (even hypotetical) purpose, someone might propose an approach |
| 13:01.53 | cocoloa | jelly-home: well, this would have the advantage that i could create a new root access which will expire at a certain point in time - but i think that will not work, right? |
| 13:02.56 | jelly-home | cocoloa: this can't be solved with a technical solution, because nothing can stop the temporary admin from setting up backdoors |
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| 13:03.41 | jelly-home | cocoloa: so it becomes a social/policy issue, and you have to trust them. |
| 13:04.35 | cocoloa | anyway: one more question: if i'd like to clone a user (and all it's files/permissions/... in his/her ~/), what's the best way to go? set up a new user and copy ower all the dotfiles and regular files/dirs from his/her homedir to the new user's homedir and then rechown them? (which will take a while if the homedir has some gigs!)? |
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| 13:04.58 | thewanderer1 | cocoloa: yes |
| 13:05.06 | cocoloa | jelly-home: yeah, plus: the pseudo-root user is able to reset the expire time anyway |
| 13:05.21 | *** join/#debian An_Ony_Moose (~linus@par69-12-78-237-176-33.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:05.31 | An_Ony_Moose | is there a way to remove a package without running the prerm script? |
| 13:05.34 | thewanderer1 | cocoloa: sudo is really the best you can count on... there *are* MAC systems, but not in Debian by default |
| 13:06.05 | cocoloa | thewanderer1: so that's the only way? can't i just add another user which has permissions to basically anything in the first users homedir without copying it over? maybe by putting him/her inside a new group or something? |
| 13:06.07 | thewanderer1 | An_Ony_Moose: you can supposedly remove the script from /var/lib/dpkg/info or replace it with a no-op |
| 13:06.18 | nkuttler | An_Ony_Moose: or put exit 0 at the top |
| 13:06.19 | wm4 | I get these warnings when I upgrade anything using apt-get: error in Version string 'custom0': version number does not start with digit |
| 13:06.19 | wm4 | dpkg: warning: parsing file '/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 66277 package 'linux-image-2.6.29.4': error in Version string 'custom0': version number does not start with digit |
| 13:06.20 | dpkg | wm4: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 13:06.26 | thewanderer1 | cocoloa: ok, why would you want to have 2 users sharing 1 home? |
| 13:06.27 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: you can disable the script by making it immediately successfully exit (if it's a #!/bin/sh script, insert exit 0 as the second line) |
| 13:06.35 | wm4 | but apt-get doesn't even know the mentioned package |
| 13:06.54 | wm4 | should I just remove the package description from /var/lib/dpkg/available with a text editor? |
| 13:07.02 | jelly-home | !tell wm4 about available |
| 13:07.03 | wm4 | and why doesn't apt-get/apt-cache know this package? |
| 13:07.21 | cocoloa | thewanderer1: well, i would like to be able to appear as newuser@cocoloamashine to the outsideworld instead of olduser@cocoloamashine, that simple |
| 13:07.30 | An_Ony_Moose | thewanderer1 nkuttler jelly-home: ok... But before I force it that way, I'll reconsider... I'm trying to remove at. It tries to stop atd, but doesn't actually seem to do anything, just hang there after saying "Stopping atd..." |
| 13:07.37 | wm4 | jelly-home: thanks |
| 13:07.39 | cocoloa | thewanderer1: but spoofing the mashine name would be great, too! |
| 13:07.43 | *** join/#debian Xerrao (~XRO@synergy.serv.xdk2.net) |
| 13:07.45 | An_Ony_Moose | does anyone know a better alternative than removing it forcibly? |
| 13:07.49 | *** join/#debian chipnt (~ciprian.o@paris-18.progdev.fr) |
| 13:07.49 | wm4 | so why does this /var/lib/dpkg/available file exists if it's redundant |
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| 13:08.16 | thewanderer1 | cocoloa: ummm... so maybe just spoof your identity using a spoofing daemon rather than trying to reinvent the wheel? or rewrite your client? |
| 13:08.32 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: is this some sort of virtualized or embedded or chroot environment? |
| 13:08.43 | thewanderer1 | cocoloa: btw. you can have a few users with the same UID, but it's not necessarily a good practice |
| 13:08.59 | An_Ony_Moose | jelly-home: no, completely normal environment |
| 13:09.09 | cocoloa | thewanderer1: sometimes life is simple! which daemon would you suggest? |
| 13:09.19 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: curious then, why do you want to remove atd? |
| 13:10.08 | thewanderer1 | cocoloa: not any in particular, haven't used them... just pick a random one, test and discard if it doesn't work well :P |
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| 13:10.44 | An_Ony_Moose | jelly-home: ok, here's the whole story: I'm upgrading a very old system. |
| 13:11.03 | jelly-home | !xyproblem |
| 13:11.04 | dpkg | [xyproblem] People often falsely diagnose problems because they are looking too closely at a problem: they have got stuck at a particular point (Y) doing something (X) and so ask about step Y, not realising that there is an easier or better way to do X in the first place. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem or http://homepages.tesco.net/J.deBoynePollard/FGA/put-down-the-chocolate-covered-banana.html |
| 13:11.08 | thewanderer1 | cocoloa: try sth like http://freshmeat.net/projects/fakeidentd maybe |
| 13:11.09 | An_Ony_Moose | It wants to upgrade at, but that doesn't work either - because it tries to stop atd. |
| 13:11.18 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: how old? |
| 13:11.19 | An_Ony_Moose | and hangs there for no visible reason |
| 13:11.32 | An_Ony_Moose | um, last update was in '07 |
| 13:11.35 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: dpkg -l dpkg apt at|tail -3 |
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| 13:12.26 | An_Ony_Moose | jelly-home: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/401078/ |
| 13:12.32 | cocoloa | thewanderer1: thx! |
| 13:12.57 | cocoloa | got to have a break first |
| 13:12.58 | cocoloa | ;) |
| 13:13.20 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: a) with Debian, you cannot skip releases (have to go Debian 3.1 -> 4.0 -> 5.0 -> 6.0 step by step) b) this machine is NOT Debian |
| 13:13.38 | An_Ony_Moose | jelly-home: yes, it's rather a mess |
| 13:13.58 | An_Ony_Moose | back then, I tried to switch it to debian (previously ubuntu) by just editing sources.list |
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| 13:14.13 | An_Ony_Moose | it kind of failed :P |
| 13:14.14 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: that's pretty much impossible, those distros are different |
| 13:14.22 | An_Ony_Moose | yeah, I guessed so |
| 13:14.34 | An_Ony_Moose | problem is, I can't actually install debian the normal way |
| 13:14.59 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: read about debootstrap in the release notes |
| 13:15.00 | An_Ony_Moose | because the BIOS is somehow borked in such a way that the keyboard doesn't work until linux is booted |
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| 13:15.09 | jelly-home | !tell An_Ony_Moose about debootstrap |
| 13:15.38 | An_Ony_Moose | thanks |
| 13:16.20 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: if you can boot a livecd or liveusb or netboot a distro, you should be able to repartition and debootstrap a clean OS |
| 13:16.38 | jelly-home | there are all sorts of gotchas but it's doable |
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| 13:17.11 | An_Ony_Moose | jelly-home: I can't boot a livecd because of the messed up BIOS though |
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| 13:18.09 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: hmph. If you have physical access, you can pull the drive[s] out, install on a different machine, then put them back |
| 13:18.18 | Woet | An_Ony_Moose: buy a new computer, install a clean debian, migrate your data |
| 13:18.25 | Woet | and get rid of the crap |
| 13:18.36 | jelly-home | that works too :-) |
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| 13:19.02 | Woet | or you'll be spending weeks in #debian asking solutions to a few dozen problems a day |
| 13:19.06 | An_Ony_Moose | Woet jelly-home: I have enough computers, I just want to get this one (a laptop, so I can't really do the hard drive thing either) up and running again |
| 13:19.24 | *** part/#debian tzorvas (~tzorvas@unaffiliated/tzorvas) |
| 13:19.27 | Woet | An_Ony_Moose: you really have to reinstall if you're planning on getting it to work |
| 13:19.34 | Woet | USB stick? |
| 13:19.40 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: sure you can, there are adapters to get mini IDE disks connect to normal IDE cables |
| 13:19.41 | TrueDD | Hi all |
| 13:19.48 | An_Ony_Moose | it doesn't like booting off USB |
| 13:19.52 | Woet | right |
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| 13:20.16 | An_Ony_Moose | jelly-home: I don't want to spend any money on this, if it's entirely doomed with what I have I'll finally give up :P |
| 13:20.58 | Woet | An_Ony_Moose: you installed ubuntu stone age, then tried switching to debian stone age by editing sources.list, and now are trying to get it updated to squeeze? |
| 13:21.12 | Woet | really, find a solution that will help you reinstall it - else it's not going to work |
| 13:21.16 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: you' |
| 13:21.19 | An_Ony_Moose | hmm |
| 13:21.20 | An_Ony_Moose | ok |
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| 13:21.31 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: you're already spending time, and time == money |
| 13:21.40 | An_Ony_Moose | since this computer is not worth much to me and I'm just experimenting anyway... |
| 13:21.57 | An_Ony_Moose | I'll try one more thing, unless you tell me it's absolutely guaranteed to fail |
| 13:22.03 | thewanderer1 | An_Ony_Moose: remove all non-essential packages and all daemons you can encounter.. |
| 13:22.08 | Woet | if you are bored, just try :P |
| 13:22.30 | An_Ony_Moose | I thought maybe debootstrap then copy everything from the folder to the root filesystem |
| 13:22.35 | An_Ony_Moose | that is rather likely to fail, I think |
| 13:22.39 | An_Ony_Moose | but who cares? :D |
| 13:22.49 | thewanderer1 | An_Ony_Moose: the less packages, the less problems you're likely to run into. also, get sash (standalone shell) now, it's useful when you bork some libraries |
| 13:22.50 | Woet | you in 16 hours |
| 13:22.51 | An_Ony_Moose | I'll try removing loads of stuff first |
| 13:22.57 | jelly-home | An_Ony_Moose: in any case, this channel doesn't and cannot support derivatives so that policy gives us an easy cop out to stop helping you and still feel good about ourselves |
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| 13:23.05 | An_Ony_Moose | ok |
| 13:23.15 | An_Ony_Moose | thanks for the help you did give though :D |
| 13:23.18 | Woet | jelly-home: but it's half debian! |
| 13:23.39 | cookiemon5ter | half debian sid |
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| 13:23.51 | jelly-home | Woet: and half crap. If I gave you a cone with 95% delicious icecream and 5% dog poo, would you eat it |
| 13:23.52 | pozic | How can I download a movie from blip.tv? |
| 13:24.04 | Woet | jelly-home: depends whether the dog poo is at the top or the bottom |
| 13:24.08 | An_Ony_Moose | apt-get remove e* #! FOR SCIENCE! |
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| 13:27.19 | Soothsayer | Could there be any issues while upgrading from lenny ---> squeeze if I have software RAID-1 configured? |
| 13:27.32 | Woet | Soothsayer: i've done it several times without any issues |
| 13:27.34 | *** join/#debian walterheck (~walterhec@78.182.77.173) |
| 13:27.40 | Woet | are you actually having issues and asking whether it's normal, or just making sure? |
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| 13:27.48 | Soothsayer | Woet: making sure. |
| 13:27.58 | Woet | okay, then you are sure now :) |
| 13:27.59 | Woet | go! |
| 13:28.01 | Soothsayer | So I should just follow the normal steps for upgrade? |
| 13:28.04 | Woet | yes |
| 13:28.21 | Woet | does the server/vps have a kvm/console just in case? |
| 13:28.21 | Soothsayer | Woet: expected downtime? |
| 13:28.27 | Soothsayer | Woet: nope :-( |
| 13:28.29 | Woet | Soothsayer: one reboot, generally. |
| 13:28.35 | jelly-home | Soothsayer: if your /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf is present and valid, things should probably work |
| 13:28.54 | Woet | i have done it without any issues, but a KVM is always a good idea if it's an important machine |
| 13:29.19 | Soothsayer | jelly-home: im really not much of a server guy to understand mdadm configuration, etc. Checking if that exists though |
| 13:29.35 | Woet | Soothsayer: basically, if the server works (and reboots fine) now - it should do the same after upgrading |
| 13:29.43 | Woet | i have pretty exotic configurations which all survived an upgrade |
| 13:29.52 | jelly-home | Soothsayer: your md devices should have an ARRAY line each at the bottom |
| 13:30.26 | Soothsayer | this is it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=UHnm4MWD |
| 13:30.28 | Soothsayer | the file |
| 13:30.39 | Woet | seems fine |
| 13:30.45 | Soothsayer | what's md0, md1 and m2 ? |
| 13:30.54 | Woet | the raid devices |
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| 13:31.01 | Zopieux | hi |
| 13:31.03 | Woet | basically like sda1/sda2 |
| 13:31.06 | *** part/#debian An_Ony_Moose (~linus@par69-12-78-237-176-33.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:31.10 | Soothsayer | why are there three? |
| 13:31.19 | Woet | because you probably have 3 parititons |
| 13:31.20 | Zopieux | i'm looking for a "svg to png" tool, so i found librsvg2-bin |
| 13:31.23 | Woet | 1 for /boot, 1 for swap, 1 for / |
| 13:31.23 | Soothsayer | there are two hard disks and I thought one would be mirroring another |
| 13:31.27 | Woet | it is. |
| 13:31.32 | Zopieux | it is said there is a command line tool |
| 13:31.32 | n0ah | http://www.pull-ups.com/ |
| 13:31.37 | Zopieux | but I can't find it! |
| 13:31.40 | Woet | Soothsayer: df -h |
| 13:31.45 | Soothsayer | Woet: ill first try updating all present packages and reboot to see that it's fine even now :) |
| 13:31.53 | Woet | Soothsayer:g ood idea |
| 13:31.55 | Zopieux | there is absolutly no documentation for this tool |
| 13:32.08 | jelly-home | Soothsayer: a typical md raid setup creates a single array spread across two devices for each partition, instead of one array over whole disks |
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| 13:32.24 | jelly-home | md raid1 * setup, that is |
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| 13:32.42 | Woet | Zopieux: http://www.unix.com/man-page/opensolaris/3/librsvg-2/ |
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| 13:32.59 | Woet | Zopieux: and http://www.unix.com/man-page/opensolaris/1/rsvg/ |
| 13:33.26 | Zopieux | hm thanks |
| 13:33.40 | Zopieux | i was looking for something like $ librsvg2-bin |
| 13:33.42 | Woet | 'man rsvg' on your server should give you the latest version |
| 13:33.48 | everythingWorks | Why do i get a "command not found" error when typing "init 0". If i do the same as root user it shuts down as expected. Why i dont get a "permission denied" error instead? |
| 13:34.01 | jelly-home | because everythingWorks |
| 13:34.07 | cahoot | not in $PATH |
| 13:34.07 | Zopieux | yes of course, I didnt know the name would be this. |
| 13:34.10 | jelly-home | hides |
| 13:34.10 | aypea[0] | probably because it's not in your path |
| 13:34.26 | Soothsayer | Woet, jelly-home : thanks, will try it in the next few days. Need to get a backup first! |
| 13:34.44 | Soothsayer | and find out the cost of kvm / console access |
| 13:34.49 | everythingWorks | jelly-home can i be a bit more precise? ;) |
| 13:35.22 | Woet | everythingWorks: $PATH are the paths where it searches for the command you are typing |
| 13:35.32 | jelly-home | everythingWorks: try running /sbin/init 0 as normal user |
| 13:35.54 | Woet | of a user it's generally /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/games - of root it's generally /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin |
| 13:36.07 | niteye | anyone knows how to make suspend-to-ram work correctly with an ati radeon driver? |
| 13:36.09 | Woet | root has /bin and /sbin in it's path, so it's able to find init there, the user doesn't |
| 13:36.15 | everythingWorks | Ah, there are the sbin directories included, i see! |
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| 13:36.53 | everythingWorks | yeah, thanks |
| 13:37.32 | jelly-home | niteye: free driver or fglrx? Have you tried switching to console first, sleeping a bit, then calling the suspend command? |
| 13:37.54 | Soothsayer | ok, KVM costs a lot. |
| 13:38.43 | Woet | Soothsayer: i sent you a pm |
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| 13:38.50 | niteye | i'm using the one from the ATI website, and going to suspend works but i just get a frozen computer when trying to wake it up |
| 13:39.24 | niteye | no signal from monitor and even turning capslock on or off doesnt work |
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| 13:42.24 | rgr | suspend to ram is affected by the video driver? Wow. |
| 13:42.42 | niteye | i suspect so because it worked before |
| 13:42.45 | thewanderer1 | rgr: pretty common... |
| 13:42.49 | wols_ | rgrr it's a BLOB which does §deity knows what inside ring 0. what did you expect? |
| 13:42.50 | babilen | niteye: We can not and will not support the ATI drivers, you might want to try those packaged for Debian. "/msg dpkg fglrx dkms" |
| 13:43.16 | rgr | pretty scary that video still causes so much hassle imo but anyway. |
| 13:43.23 | niteye | is there much difference between fglrx and the free driver? which one would be recommended? |
| 13:43.34 | wols_ | niteye: what videochip? |
| 13:43.45 | rgr | wols_: talking about blobs etc is not the answer to all things broken. Change the record ;) |
| 13:43.49 | babilen | rgr: If you find that scary you should read http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/Optimus |
| 13:43.59 | pozic | niteye: opencl does not work in the open driver. |
| 13:43.59 | niteye | ATI radeon HD, i dont know the exact number i think its radeon HD 4560 or something |
| 13:44.13 | wols_ | niteye: the main problem is you using a driver you got from amd.com. that one we cannot support in any way. ask amd.com for the software they distribute |
| 13:44.16 | rgr | nouveau is rubbish. I dumped ATI ages ago. No probs with latest nvidia using sglrx installers. |
| 13:44.20 | babilen | niteye: "lspci -nn|grep -i vga" please |
| 13:44.33 | rgr | wols_: you write video drivers? |
| 13:44.41 | rgr | impressed. |
| 13:44.43 | babilen | rgr: The link has very little to do with nouveau |
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| 13:45.00 | wols_ | rgr: no kernel dev will ever even reply when you put a BLOB like fglrx into your kernel. and they are the ones who actually make it. what do you think other people who are not even ekrnel devs will do? |
| 13:45.21 | rgr | thats rubbish and you know it. Not everyone is a ravnig zealot refusing to support common HW. Sorry and all that. |
| 13:45.46 | rgr | anyway tennis ... |
| 13:45.52 | niteye | hmm opengl, i'm wondering if i would be missing out without it? do i need opengl when watching movies and flash content? i guess not? |
| 13:45.58 | pozic | wols_: it is perfectly possible to give support on the level of "Ah, we had many users with complaint X, perhaps you could try Y." |
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| 13:46.29 | pozic | wols_: are you saying that #debian explicitly does not support even that? |
| 13:46.30 | ajikeshi_ | niteye, afaik it takes the load away from your cpu |
| 13:46.36 | ajikeshi_ | having 2d acceleration |
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| 13:46.58 | iman | hi, when i want to connect to my vps, i face this error http://dpaste.com/550748/ , would u pls help me to solve it, ynks |
| 13:47.00 | wols_ | pozic: I say explicitly say that as soon as someone says "I got my driver from nvidia.com or amd.com" then debian does say exactly that |
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| 13:47.25 | pozic | wols_: but the closed one from the repos is fine? |
| 13:47.25 | babilen | pozic: We will support the fglrx packages provided by Debian, not those installed with the ATI .run installer. |
| 13:47.33 | thewanderer1 | niteye: I'm using open-source nouveau drivers for NVIDIA by contrast, not having any problems so far (but I don't watch high-resolution movies), including flash |
| 13:47.39 | pozic | babilen: that makes sense. |
| 13:47.43 | wols_ | pozic: yes |
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| 13:48.10 | niteye | nvidia has always been better for me, both in linux support and gaming support in windows, pita that i have an ATI radeon now |
| 13:48.11 | Woet | iman: you ran out of memory. |
| 13:48.12 | wols_ | niteye: free radeon drivers support 3d for your card |
| 13:48.15 | Woet | 'fork: Cannot allocate memory' |
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| 13:48.32 | iman | Woet, how can i solve it ? |
| 13:48.47 | Woet | iman: reboot the vps, upgrade memory, kill applications that use too much memory |
| 13:48.53 | wols_ | Woet: that is strange tho since OOM killer would fire, no? or is the VPS software that buggy it will bungle that? |
| 13:49.28 | Woet | wols_: it's an openVZ vps, it has many issues with the OOM killer |
| 13:49.52 | iman | Woet, i only have ssh connection to that vps, i can't connect to it, because i get this error |
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| 13:50.01 | Woet | iman: well, something is eating up the memory |
| 13:50.05 | Woet | or the beancounters aren't set properly |
| 13:50.12 | Woet | either way, contact your provider |
| 13:50.19 | niteye | funny, my internet is barely working, i cant connect to any sites, MSN keeps logging me out , but my internet radio just keeps on rolling no problemo |
| 13:50.49 | Woet | niteye: so you have a problem establishing new connections, and existing ones survive |
| 13:50.52 | Woet | or your dns server is messed up |
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| 13:51.11 | ajikeshi_ | or you have packet loss |
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| 13:51.27 | niteye | my ISP does that regularly, but many times firefox also says the connection was reset |
| 13:51.29 | Woet | packet loss would probably interupt the radio though |
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| 13:51.45 | jelly-home | iman: typically providers offer a way to "reboot" an openvz |
| 13:51.51 | ajikeshi_ | Woet, depends on the buffer afaik |
| 13:52.59 | iman | jelly-home, there are not any way expect it ? |
| 13:53.06 | wols_ | niteye: every html file you download is a new connection. your internet radio is a single connection for hours |
| 13:53.35 | jelly-home | iman: sorry? I can't understand that sentence. |
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| 13:53.44 | jelly-home | except? |
| 13:54.35 | iman | jelly-home, are there an other way ? |
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| 13:55.35 | niteye | jelly-home: u jelly? *trollface* |
| 13:55.39 | niteye | sorry i couldn't resist |
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| 13:55.58 | jelly-home | niteye: I have been "jelly" since 1994! |
| 13:56.32 | jelly-home | iman: not that I can think of; but then again I don't have much experience with openvz/virtuozzo |
| 13:56.47 | gpa_ | babilen : i succesfully installed the video drivers. no more nouveau loaded. thanks |
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| 13:57.55 | gpa_ | but i have one problem |
| 13:58.04 | gpa_ | the fonts is too small |
| 13:58.13 | Zopieux | this is strange, this nginx conf makes the first 'server' section to catch all the subdomains, do you know why? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/401095/ |
| 13:58.31 | gpa_ | how can i configure for the large fonts? |
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| 14:05.13 | StyXman | gpa_: maybe the driver is guessing wrong DPI |
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| 14:06.53 | MrFrood | gpa_: go to your favourite search engine and look up fonts.conf |
| 14:08.02 | gpa_ | MrFrood: i'm on my way |
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| 14:11.13 | elkng | how old packages are in debian ? I've heard there are not quite fresh |
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| 14:11.44 | pozic | elkng: they smell a bit. |
| 14:11.49 | elkng | heh |
| 14:11.51 | gpa_ | StyXman: (--) Jun 05 20:47:48 NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (81, 81); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config |
| 14:12.02 | MrFrood | gpa_: also 'man fonts.conf' |
| 14:12.13 | pozic | elkng: in the Stable release they mostly work, AFAIK. |
| 14:12.29 | pozic | elkng: generally quality is quite good, because it has tons of users. |
| 14:12.41 | pozic | elkng: people are generally quite competent. |
| 14:12.46 | phreck | meh. gnome or kde? |
| 14:12.57 | wols_ | phreck: pest or cholera? |
| 14:13.00 | StyXman | phreck: both. none. |
| 14:13.03 | phreck | lol |
| 14:13.09 | phreck | i think thats where im at |
| 14:13.15 | jelly-home | elkng: current release had its version freeze last August. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100806 |
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| 14:13.16 | pozic | elkng: if you want the latest packages, use experimental packages. |
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| 14:13.20 | phreck | im unhappy with both of them. |
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| 14:13.35 | phreck | any suggestions? |
| 14:13.37 | pozic | elkng: except, they are not meant for end-users. |
| 14:13.42 | StyXman | phreck: try others |
| 14:13.43 | jelly-home | phreck: xfce |
| 14:14.11 | everythingWorks | which window manager do you use? |
| 14:14.16 | jelly-home | !polls |
| 14:14.17 | dpkg | "Does anyone have X or use Y?" is taking a poll, not asking a good question that IRC helpers can answer. Don't do it or sussudio's army of militant badgers will hurt you. Also see <ask> and <bad polls>. |
| 14:14.21 | phreck | im using gnome right now |
| 14:14.40 | jelly-home | !popcon |
| 14:14.40 | dpkg | hmm... popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at http://popcon.debian.org/ -- See the FAQ at http://popcon.debian.org/FAQ . Statistics are also available via IRC, /msg judd popcon $package |
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| 14:16.39 | everythingWorks | okay, i understand |
| 14:17.19 | MrFrood | everythingWorks: try asking in #debian-offtopic |
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| 14:18.13 | jelly-home | or look at popcon numbers for, say, gnome-desktop-environment, kde-standard and xfce4 |
| 14:18.59 | MrFrood | points out to jelly-home that they are DE's not WM's :P |
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| 14:21.42 | everythingWorks | kk |
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| 14:23.11 | d1b | you can make jelly-home at home |
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| 14:25.22 | pkkm | I want to make a complete backup of my VPS server, with a possibility to deploy it on another server. Is RSync right tool to do it? Which directories should I use? |
| 14:25.37 | pkkm | s/use/backup/ |
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| 14:25.57 | jelly-home | personally I backup _everything_ |
| 14:26.03 | jelly-home | YMMV |
| 14:26.06 | jelly-home | !what to backup |
| 14:26.07 | dpkg | Some things you should back up include: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/spool/mail /var/www /var/cache/debconf /var/spool/cron ... |
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| 14:27.16 | jelly-home | if there are databases, make sure you use appropriate scripts to make backups consistent and restores possible |
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| 14:28.58 | elkng | thanks |
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| 14:41.04 | gadago | hi guys - I am in no way affiliated with this product but thought I would share |
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| 14:41.38 | gadago | if you are interested in a open source load balancer take a look here http://zenloadbalancer.sourceforge.net/ |
| 14:41.52 | gadago | it's uses debian as a base distro |
| 14:41.56 | Zopieux | hi |
| 14:42.17 | Zopieux | there is an up-to-date package, librsvg, in wheezy |
| 14:42.32 | Zopieux | can I install this package without going to wheezy? |
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| 14:45.30 | Woet | Zopieux: you can wget the deb and install it through dpkg |
| 14:45.41 | Woet | if it doesn't have any major dependencies, it will work |
| 14:45.43 | jelly-home | Zopieux: /msg dpkg ssb |
| 14:46.11 | jelly-home | ,versions librsvg2-2 |
| 14:46.12 | judd | Package librsvg2-2 on i386 -- lenny: 2.22.2-2lenny1; squeeze: 2.26.3-1; sid: 2.32.1-1; wheezy: 2.32.1-1 |
| 14:46.19 | Woet | jelly-home: how many years does it take to know all commands of dpkg? |
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| 14:46.44 | Zopieux | ok thanks |
| 14:46.44 | jelly-home | Woet: in my case, infinite |
| 14:46.50 | Zopieux | there is no backport |
| 14:46.53 | Woet | :( |
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| 14:47.20 | jelly-home | Zopieux: so you make one yourself! |
| 14:47.26 | Zopieux | :) |
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| 14:47.32 | Zopieux | it seems pretty complex. |
| 14:47.52 | jelly-home | what, the ssb procedure? |
| 14:47.57 | Woet | jelly-home: wouldn't it be easier to just wget the squeeze deb and dpkg -i it? |
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| 14:48.30 | Zopieux | i don't understand the 1) Add ONLY a <deb-src> line for sid to /etc/apt/sources.list step. |
| 14:49.10 | jelly-home | Zopieux: there can be deb ... lines and deb-src ... lines in sources.list. Don't add a "deb ..." lines, just a "deb-src ..." one |
| 14:49.12 | Zopieux | Woet, as long as it doesn't mess with my system, if it is that easy, i'm in. |
| 14:49.17 | jelly-home | Zopieux: /msg dpkg deb-src |
| 14:49.23 | Zopieux | i did |
| 14:49.27 | wols_ | Zopieux: you need to at a line for source packages only. not a normal one which starts with "deb http:/...." |
| 14:49.47 | Zopieux | the one for wheezy I believe. |
| 14:50.00 | jelly-home | that seems reasonable |
| 14:50.07 | wols_ | yes. and it must start with "deb-src" |
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| 14:50.23 | wols_ | Zopieux: why do you need a "up to date" package of librsvg exactly? |
| 14:50.58 | Zopieux | because the current one (in squeeze) doesn't handle a text property I need |
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| 14:51.08 | Zopieux | dev-src http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ wheezy |
| 14:51.09 | Zopieux | is that ok? |
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| 14:51.26 | wols_ | no it's not |
| 14:51.27 | jelly-home | Woet: it doesn't always work, and with passing of time the number of testing/unstable packages that can be "just installed" like that gets lower |
| 14:51.39 | Woet | jelly-home: but no harm in trying, right? :P |
| 14:51.46 | Zopieux | i don't get it. |
| 14:51.50 | wols_ | Zopieux: so you write your own software which depends on librsvg |
| 14:52.06 | wols_ | Zopieux: check your normal sources.list entries. they look nothing like what you pasted |
| 14:52.18 | Zopieux | yes they do! |
| 14:52.22 | jelly-home | Zopieux: there's a typo, and you're missing " main" at the end |
| 14:52.30 | wols_ | Zopieux: no they don't |
| 14:52.34 | jelly-home | Zopieux: or " main contrib non-free" |
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| 14:52.41 | Zopieux | ho yes i forgot main and contrib |
| 14:53.08 | Zopieux | what do you mean "by so you write your own software which depends on librsvg" |
| 14:53.32 | jelly-home | wols_ doesn't like to use question marks |
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| 14:54.19 | Zopieux | i just need to convert a svg to png but the "stroke-dasharray" is not available and it seems it is, in the latest version |
| 14:54.20 | wols_ | Zopieux: I asked why you need the new version and you deflected. so again: why are do youneed the new version. there is some software that needs this new feature of the library. which one? |
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| 14:55.11 | wols_ | cause if you simply backport the new version, it might be that it will break other already installed programs if it replaces your current version |
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| 14:55.25 | wols_ | so there might be other ways than a simple backport to solve your problem |
| 14:56.07 | Zopieux | this librsvg wasn't installed before I installed it manually |
| 14:56.09 | Wyzard | wols_: I think Zopieux wants to render an SVG file that uses features of the format that the old librsvg doesn't implement |
| 14:56.19 | Zopieux | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~parsnip/librsvg/forcemerge/revision/1167 |
| 14:56.25 | Zopieux | "In previous we ignore stroke-dasharray, miter-limit, and etc. for texts" |
| 14:56.33 | Zopieux | (february 2011) |
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| 14:56.59 | Zopieux | ok so now i added the deb-src thing, i can follow the others steps. |
| 14:57.33 | Wyzard | Zopieux: You could try some other SVG implementation, like the one in Inkscape |
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| 14:58.11 | Zopieux | Wyzard, how? |
| 14:58.32 | Zopieux | are there other svg libs? |
| 14:58.40 | Wyzard | install inkscape and open the file with it |
| 14:58.49 | Zopieux | hm |
| 14:59.11 | Zopieux | I need this tool because i need to automatize the creation of images |
| 14:59.36 | Wyzard | OK, so you are writing a custom program like wols_ said? |
| 15:00.00 | Bartzy | there's a maximum time select() can wait if timeout is null ? |
| 15:00.24 | Zopieux | a python program yes, it generates images for a latex document |
| 15:00.28 | Zopieux | the purpose is to not use any gui software. |
| 15:00.54 | Dewi | Bartzy: no, there isn't |
| 15:01.26 | Wyzard | Zopieux: nevermind the inkscape suggestion then |
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| 15:01.37 | Zopieux | np |
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| 15:02.02 | Zopieux | it's funny there is no other svg lib |
| 15:02.14 | Bartzy | Dewi: That's weird. on one machine I get weird results and on the other it's fine |
| 15:02.45 | Dewi | Zopieux: libbatik-java |
| 15:02.47 | jelly-home | Bartzy: both debian? Default kernels? |
| 15:02.49 | Dewi | Zopieux: is one, but it's java |
| 15:03.08 | Dewi | Zopieux: there are probably a bunch of them... |
| 15:04.05 | Wyzard | I doubt there are lots of SVG libraries |
| 15:05.04 | Wyzard | SVG is a complex format and it takes a significant amount of work to get an implementation to render even basic graphics |
| 15:05.16 | Wyzard | Why would someone start a new one when there's an implementation available already? |
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| 15:05.22 | Bartzy | jelly-home: Both debian. One is default debian kernel (2.6.32), and that is the one that's making the problems, the other one is standard debian but is 64-bit |
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| 15:05.55 | Dewi | Wyzard: there are lots of web browsers too |
| 15:06.18 | Dewi | Wyzard: lots of kernels... lots of javascript implementations. Why wouldn't there be? |
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| 15:06.50 | Zopieux | sudo aptitude build-dep librsvg |
| 15:06.53 | Wyzard | An SVG library isn't as high-visibility as a kernel or a browser :-) |
| 15:06.59 | Zopieux | asks me to remove packages like "apt" :/ |
| 15:07.09 | wols_ | Dewi: checked how many libraries there are for decoding jpeg images? |
| 15:07.12 | jelly-home | Zopieux: pastebin the whole output |
| 15:07.20 | Zopieux | it's in French |
| 15:07.27 | jelly-home | !localized errors |
| 15:07.27 | dpkg | Rather than hoping that we recognise what has gone wrong from the error messages in your native language, please provide any error messages in English. You can do this by setting your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. LANG=C apt-get -f install |
| 15:07.29 | Dewi | wols_: a lot? |
| 15:07.32 | jelly-home | Zopieux: ^^ |
| 15:07.42 | Zopieux | okay |
| 15:07.47 | wols_ | Dewi: not really. possibly MS has their own, but that's about it |
| 15:07.57 | wols_ | the others use libjpeg |
| 15:08.01 | jelly-home | Zopieux: sudo env LC_ALL=C aptitude build-dep .... |
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| 15:08.38 | Bartzy | jelly-home : Why did you ask ? |
| 15:08.41 | jelly-home | Zopieux: also, see if apt-get build-dep ... does a more reasonable result |
| 15:08.54 | PachecoJ | Did they get rid of the "testing" branch or something? |
| 15:09.07 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: No, it's still there |
| 15:09.09 | jelly-home | Bartzy: I wondered if there were any customizations of kernel settings involved |
| 15:09.14 | PachecoJ | I'm trying to upgrade form Etch to squeeze and going through the site it is no longer clear what is testing, what is stable, etc... |
| 15:09.27 | PachecoJ | I see from the welcome message here Squeeze is the latest, but is that stable or testing? |
| 15:09.35 | Wyzard | squeeze is stable |
| 15:09.39 | PachecoJ | what is testing? |
| 15:09.41 | Zopieux | I can't get the locale to become English |
| 15:09.43 | Zopieux | it's annoying. |
| 15:09.45 | Wyzard | wheezy |
| 15:09.53 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: DON'T skip releases; you need to go etch -> lenny; and only then lenny->squeeze |
| 15:10.06 | PachecoJ | really? |
| 15:10.10 | wols_ | yes really |
| 15:10.12 | PachecoJ | that's frustrating |
| 15:10.12 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: /msg dpkg etch->lenny |
| 15:10.19 | Woet | PachecoJ: why are you still on etch? |
| 15:10.20 | Woet | it's 2011. |
| 15:10.22 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: that's also the only supported path |
| 15:10.26 | Woet | that's the frustrating part :P |
| 15:10.29 | PachecoJ | because I'm super stable :) |
| 15:10.43 | Woet | and super insecure with super lack of security updates |
| 15:10.51 | PachecoJ | because I do a lot of work on my machine and I rarely get a chance where I can take it down for a rebuild |
| 15:10.53 | jelly-home | meh, etch is fresh |
| 15:11.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1124] by debhelper |
| 15:11.15 | *** join/#debian dvs (~cwv@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 15:11.17 | jelly-home | I think we still have some sarge installations |
| 15:11.29 | PachecoJ | nice |
| 15:11.36 | jelly-home | FSVO nice, yes |
| 15:11.40 | PachecoJ | see it is confusing, it isn't just me... |
| 15:11.41 | *** join/#debian manchot (~tux@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:bca8) |
| 15:11.48 | PachecoJ | according to the wiki page it says Wheezy is unstable |
| 15:12.01 | Zopieux | ok, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/401133/ |
| 15:12.07 | PachecoJ | where do they lay out the build status on the Debian page? |
| 15:12.08 | wols_ | PachecoJ: no debian site ever said that |
| 15:12.09 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: first thing to do, replace any occurences of "stable" with "etch" in your sources.list |
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| 15:12.21 | manchot | does an Atheros card have stronger signal than Intel card? |
| 15:12.23 | PachecoJ | jelly-home: you mean other way around |
| 15:12.27 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: NO |
| 15:12.32 | PachecoJ | I already have etch |
| 15:12.33 | Zopieux | and http://paste.pocoo.org/show/401134/ |
| 15:12.36 | wols_ | ,versions http://paste.pocoo.org/show/401133/ |
| 15:12.37 | PachecoJ | hence why it never updated |
| 15:12.37 | judd | Sorry, no package named 'http://paste.pocoo.org/show/401133/' was found in i386. |
| 15:12.40 | dvs | manchot: Don't know about stronger but it has no firmware |
| 15:12.42 | wols_ | ,versions libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev |
| 15:12.42 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: good. No mention of stable at all? |
| 15:12.43 | judd | Package libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev on i386 -- sid: 2.23.3-3; wheezy: 2.23.3-3 |
| 15:12.45 | PachecoJ | if I replace it with stable it will go to Squeeze |
| 15:12.47 | PachecoJ | no |
| 15:12.47 | manchot | I want to change my laptop's minipci card from intel to atheros. wondering if it is worth it |
| 15:12.53 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: you're in luck |
| 15:13.02 | *** join/#debian MIOW (~miow@nat223-248-205-109.tvoe.tv) |
| 15:13.06 | PachecoJ | not really because I tried upgrading already |
| 15:13.09 | PachecoJ | and it didn't go well |
| 15:13.11 | wols_ | Zopieux: ouch. seems you have to backport libgdk-pixbuf2.0 first... ugly |
| 15:13.13 | manchot | dvs, no firmware? Can you recommend a better minipci card than the stock Intel? |
| 15:13.14 | PachecoJ | ran into circular dependencies |
| 15:13.17 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: first, update your etch. use /msg dpkg etch sources.list |
| 15:13.26 | *** join/#debian Yu\2 (~Yu@2001:638:504:f1f6:213:77ff:feb6:afb0) |
| 15:13.29 | Zopieux | hm. :/ |
| 15:13.35 | Wyzard | manchot: Both should be able to vary their signal strength as-needed, up to the legal limits |
| 15:13.41 | wols_ | manchot: for what reason? it depends mainly on which intel card you currently have |
| 15:13.47 | dvs | manchot: No firmware is good. That means it will work with the stock kernel with no additional firmware packages. |
| 15:13.57 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: then read lenny release notes, and do the /msg dpkg etch->lenny thing |
| 15:14.01 | PachecoJ | jelly-home: what is "/msg"? |
| 15:14.11 | *** join/#debian skiz (~jmartin@c-67-161-10-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:14.14 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: a command to type in your irc client |
| 15:14.45 | manchot | Wyzard, wols_ dvs I heard that Atheros is better. plus I need to upgrade my current 3945 abg to a N card. |
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| 15:14.57 | *** join/#debian heg (~heg@dyn.144-85-220-157.dsl.vtx.ch) |
| 15:15.06 | wols_ | !tell manchot about best |
| 15:15.09 | dvs | manchot: I've never tried an Intel card |
| 15:15.14 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: just type in "/msg dpkg etch->lenny" and see if the "dpkg" irc bot gives you a reply with instructions (in private) |
| 15:15.23 | *** join/#debian luxor (~quassel@91.178.214.162) |
| 15:15.24 | PachecoJ | yeah, I got it |
| 15:15.29 | manchot | wols_, ? |
| 15:15.35 | *** join/#debian DammitJim (~Dammitjim@99.75.56.77) |
| 15:15.43 | manchot | dvs, what card do you use? |
| 15:15.53 | Wyzard | manchot: I don't know about Atheros, but the Intel wireless cards are much easier to use in Linux than other wireless cards I've used (Broadcom, Intersil) |
| 15:15.53 | wols_ | manchot: saying something is "better" is just gibberish here. HOW is it supposedly better? |
| 15:15.59 | dvs | manchot: Atheros 92xx chipset |
| 15:16.08 | dvs | (I forget the exact number) |
| 15:16.26 | Zopieux | libbatik-java seems to handle everything i need |
| 15:16.29 | manchot | wols_, better signal? |
| 15:16.34 | Zopieux | it's very heavy but, that's ok |
| 15:16.35 | manchot | dvs, is it good? |
| 15:16.52 | PachecoJ | I think I already screwed it up though |
| 15:16.56 | dvs | manchot: It loses its signal sometimes. |
| 15:16.57 | *** join/#debian mns (~mns@c-24-63-162-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:17.15 | wols_ | well my intel 5100 has a much better signal than my atheros5k on desktop |
| 15:17.23 | PachecoJ | I tried going straight to squeeze and dpkg couldn't understand the packages... so I forced install of the new dpkg, which went, but now it doesn't work because I don't have the right libc |
| 15:17.25 | Wyzard | manchot: Personally, I don't see much need for 802.11n support -- 802.11g is plenty fast enough for general network access, and for large transfers, you can plug into a gigabit cable |
| 15:17.37 | PachecoJ | and I don't think I can pull it out and go back to the old dpkg because dpkg doesn't work |
| 15:17.44 | *** join/#debian poncha|laptop (~poncha@unaffiliated/poncha) |
| 15:17.45 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: sounds like you've gotten your system into a broken state |
| 15:17.46 | *** join/#debian MIOW (~miow@nat223-248-205-109.tvoe.tv) |
| 15:17.52 | PachecoJ | that sucks |
| 15:17.53 | manchot | Wyzard, it feels better to match the N card with a N-router |
| 15:18.04 | PachecoJ | any way to go back to the old dpkg? |
| 15:18.10 | manchot | dvs, so I should choose Intel 5100? |
| 15:18.14 | Wyzard | manchot: I have a new laptop arriving tomorrow with an N card, and no N router, and I don't plan to buy one |
| 15:18.26 | *** join/#debian fims (~fims@dslb-088-072-249-090.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:18.38 | jelly-home | Wyzard: but faster speeds = less collisions, theoretically |
| 15:18.55 | wols_ | Wyzard: sometimes it would be nice if transfer speeds run at more than 1MB/s :) |
| 15:19.03 | dvs | manchot: I've never used an Intel so I can't say |
| 15:19.13 | manchot | wols_, better = better singal and stability |
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| 15:19.34 | Wyzard | manchot: Anyway, for the new laptop I mentioned, I specifically chose an Intel wireless card because I know it's simple to get working |
| 15:19.47 | wols_ | manchot: imho that's mainly a function of the antenna. and you cannot change that in your laptop. usually. |
| 15:19.57 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: restore from a backup? |
| 15:20.02 | Wyzard | wols_: G isn't that slow, and for high speed, I have gigabit |
| 15:20.05 | wols_ | Wyzard: my ath5k was simpler :) |
| 15:20.09 | manchot | wols_, it is mini-pci and I think I can. |
| 15:20.20 | PachecoJ | jelly-home: does dpkg or apt make a backup automatically? |
| 15:20.25 | jelly-home | no |
| 15:20.26 | Wyzard | I haven't used Atheros, though, only Broadcom and Intersil |
| 15:20.28 | wols_ | manchot: so you order new antenna cables too? which laptop is this? |
| 15:20.29 | PachecoJ | yay |
| 15:20.34 | Zopieux | good lord, this libbatik rasterizer works |
| 15:20.36 | Zopieux | many thanks |
| 15:20.41 | Woet | PachecoJ: that's why every upgrade page tells you to make backups *before* upgrading |
| 15:20.42 | Woet | :) |
| 15:20.43 | PachecoJ | can I install a .deb without dpkg? |
| 15:20.43 | manchot | wols_, hp dv series |
| 15:20.50 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: since it's a desktop, you might as well reinstall |
| 15:21.00 | PachecoJ | yeah, that's what I"m on the virge of doing |
| 15:21.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1137] by debhelper |
| 15:21.21 | PachecoJ | but if I could just get dpkg back to the old version then I could do a proper upgrade |
| 15:21.29 | wols_ | manchot: I doubt it's possible there. sure you can replace the card (If the BIOS still recognizes it. usually notebooks are picky) |
| 15:21.29 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: .deb is an .ar archive, and inside that ar there's a data.tar.bz2 -> you can unpack that directly onto the filesystem's root |
| 15:21.36 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: It's not just dpkg being broken, you've also got a bunch of packages probably in half-installed state if dpkg tried to install them |
| 15:21.45 | PachecoJ | no, I only did dpkg |
| 15:21.54 | wols_ | manchot: only times I've seen notebooks where you can fiddle with antenna setups are business laptopts |
| 15:22.00 | Wyzard | You said you tried to upgrade, but dpkg didn't understand the packages |
| 15:22.07 | manchot | wols_, I didn't see any wireless info in the bios. did you? |
| 15:22.08 | PachecoJ | right, which means it didn't install anything |
| 15:22.12 | PachecoJ | it failed on the first package |
| 15:22.13 | jelly-home | !package |
| 15:22.13 | dpkg | Debian .deb packages are a special form of <ar> archive which can be unpacked with "ar x pkg.deb". Inside the file control.tar.gz are conffiles, installation scripts, and a file "control" which contains the information shown with "apt-cache show pkg". Dependencies can be changed by editing this file. Install the dpkg-dev package and read "man 5 deb" for more details. A better plan is to see <package recompile> <source package>. |
| 15:22.30 | *** join/#debian pikudoz (~casosac@190.235.85.29) |
| 15:22.37 | wols_ | manchot: you won't see that. the BIOS simply won't work with cards that aren't specified by the manufacturer. there is nothing user selectable about that |
| 15:22.54 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: does the dpkg binary work at all at this point? |
| 15:23.15 | wols_ | manchot: I dunno if the HP dv series is like that. but better check _before_ you get a new one |
| 15:23.20 | PachecoJ | I can call it and it executes, but it won't install anything because it complains about not having libc6 |
| 15:23.23 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: do you have a /var/log/dpkg.log? If you do, please pastebin the contents |
| 15:23.39 | *** join/#debian padhu (~padhu@117.230.182.99) |
| 15:24.08 | PachecoJ | yeah, I do... going through it I do see a bunch of half-installed stuff |
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| 15:24.12 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: oh, so it executes? pastebin output of "dpkg -l libc6 apt dpkg |tail -3 " as well |
| 15:24.13 | PachecoJ | sounds like I better just reinstall |
| 15:24.18 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: so it's not that dpkg itself fails to run because of its own libc requirements, it just refuses to install things due to package dependencies? |
| 15:24.47 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: You can probably "dpkg -i --force-depends" the older dpkg .deb |
| 15:24.50 | PachecoJ | maybe that's what it is, I thought it was complaining about not having the right version of the libC libraries to run |
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| 15:25.10 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: it might or might not be reasonably simple to backpedal to etch versions of stuff |
| 15:25.15 | Wyzard | Actually, you probably don't even need --force-depends for that |
| 15:25.25 | PachecoJ | jelly-home: how would I generally do that? |
| 15:25.28 | Wyzard | just install the etch dpkg .deb |
| 15:25.32 | PachecoJ | just change the sources.list and try it? |
| 15:25.50 | *** join/#debian phw (~phw@pD9FD8F35.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:26.03 | jelly-home | Wyzard: the order of downgrading dpkg and libc6 can be important here, your suggestion might leave him with a /usr/bin/dpkg that doesn't run at all |
| 15:26.04 | Wyzard | jelly-home: he says nothing has been upgraded but dpkg itself |
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| 15:26.19 | phw | How can I start a installation using a serial console (no graphics card!)? |
| 15:26.22 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: please provide the requested data first. |
| 15:26.24 | Wyzard | so the old libc6 should still be present |
| 15:26.25 | wols_ | Wyzard: he says a lot of things, many of them contradicting |
| 15:26.33 | jelly-home | Wyzard: I trust nothing |
| 15:26.45 | wols_ | Wyzard: so unless he actually does a paste, you fly blind |
| 15:26.48 | PachecoJ | Wyzard: no, that's not true, I thought I only upgraded dpkg and it failed, but I looked through the log and there are a bunch of half-installed things |
| 15:27.03 | jelly-home | waits |
| 15:27.18 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: then getting your system back into a consistent state will probably take a lot of work |
| 15:27.36 | Wyzard | Consider reinstalling |
| 15:27.44 | PachecoJ | yeah, I will just do that |
| 15:28.23 | babilen | PachecoJ: You are probably better of just installing squeeze instead of reinstalling etch and upgrading to lenny/squeeze though ;) |
| 15:28.31 | Bushmills | logs will contain a lot of "half-installed" lines even if packages have installed allright |
| 15:28.51 | wols_ | phw: you create bootfloppies that use a serial console. usually it's faster to take out the harddisk and install debian on the other PC and then put it back into the headless PC |
| 15:29.01 | Bushmills | if aptitude or apt-get don't complain, you'd not need to worry about half-installed stuff |
| 15:29.03 | PachecoJ | http://pastebin.com/0Quw0jQU |
| 15:29.07 | PachecoJ | that's only part of the log |
| 15:29.14 | PachecoJ | there are many half-installed things |
| 15:29.29 | phw | wols_: is it possible to activate the serial console for the installation in typing in boot parameters (like ubuntu does)? |
| 15:29.37 | babilen | perfectly fine |
| 15:29.56 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: ah, so you unpacked a crapload of squeeze over that system already. Just reinstall, it's easier |
| 15:30.27 | jelly-home | ,versions openoffice.org3-draw |
| 15:30.28 | judd | Sorry, no package named 'openoffice.org3-draw' was found in i386. |
| 15:30.36 | wols_ | phw: why don't you put in a debian CD to your current system and check if the bootloader allows custom boot parameters? |
| 15:30.38 | jelly-home | hah, that's not even a Debian package at all |
| 15:31.10 | PachecoJ | yeah, that will be easier |
| 15:31.19 | PachecoJ | next time I'll just do it properly |
| 15:31.26 | PachecoJ | I thought i could just jump revisions to the current one |
| 15:31.29 | *** join/#debian ck01 (~an@unaffiliated/ck01) |
| 15:31.31 | phw | wols_: the problem is that the bootloader does not seem to output anything but two starts. If you just press enter - after some thine I got the mssage that no graphic card was found (Undefined video mode number: 314) and cannot continue |
| 15:31.52 | babilen | PachecoJ: You can not as you have just painfully found out. |
| 15:31.53 | wols_ | phw: what debian install iso is this? |
| 15:32.01 | *** join/#debian PragCypher (~PragCyphe@208.157.149.45) |
| 15:32.03 | jelly-home | if would be nice if dpkg or libapt could detect you're doing an unsupported thing like that |
| 15:32.08 | phw | wols_: the current versions CD iso |
| 15:32.09 | *** join/#debian thiagoss (~thiagoss@189.71.124.233) |
| 15:32.12 | PachecoJ | yeah, it would be nice |
| 15:32.23 | PachecoJ | I kind of knew it wasn't going to be that simple |
| 15:32.32 | wols_ | phw: exact name please. cause my netinst ISO has definitely more than 2 entries to choose from at boot |
| 15:32.37 | babilen | jelly-home: How would dpkg know about the next release and the one after that? |
| 15:32.48 | phw | wols_: debian-6.0.1a-amd64-CD-1 |
| 15:32.56 | wols_ | phw: there must be at least 3 from memory: text based, graphical and rescue mode. probably more |
| 15:32.56 | jelly-home | babilen: look it up on the internets! |
| 15:33.06 | PachecoJ | so when I go to the home page and go to Download Debian, am I getting Squeeze? |
| 15:33.09 | babilen | jelly-home: heh :) /me laughs ... |
| 15:33.13 | phw | wols_: ah pardon me - its three stars |
| 15:33.16 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: yes |
| 15:33.20 | Wyzard | 6.0 |
| 15:33.21 | PachecoJ | how do I get Wheezy? |
| 15:33.26 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: don't |
| 15:33.31 | babilen | 6.0.1a that is |
| 15:33.31 | PachecoJ | why |
| 15:33.31 | Wyzard | wheezy isn't released |
| 15:33.40 | PachecoJ | you said Wheezy was testing? |
| 15:33.41 | linux-fox | laughs |
| 15:33.50 | wols_ | PachecoJ: you aren't upgrading for years but want to run testing. are you mad? |
| 15:33.53 | Bushmills | that's why :) |
| 15:33.53 | PachecoJ | it used to be the case that you went there and you could pick from stable, unstable, testing |
| 15:34.07 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: because it's meant for users that want to help make it ready for general consumption and can handle breakage |
| 15:34.15 | PachecoJ | I've always run testing |
| 15:34.15 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: yes, and testing isn't a supported release, it's a work-in-progress toward the next release |
| 15:34.20 | PachecoJ | I got Etch when it was in testing |
| 15:34.29 | gadago | does anyone know any p2v tools for qemu kvm? |
| 15:34.44 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: install stable, upgrade it to wheezy |
| 15:34.45 | Bushmills | then you were always running etch. not always testing. |
| 15:34.45 | PachecoJ | I've never had a problem with stability in the testing branch... it's a workstation not a server |
| 15:34.56 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: You've been running etch for years |
| 15:35.05 | PachecoJ | yeah, but it was testing when I first got it, lol |
| 15:35.06 | babilen | PachecoJ: Please read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable -- but regardless of what you are going to do in the future, install Squeeze (i.e. Debian 6.0.1a) |
| 15:35.08 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: of course you didn't have a problem -- you did no upgrades for like 5 years! |
| 15:35.18 | PachecoJ | if it aint broke don't fix it |
| 15:35.21 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: or do you mean you weren't running the final etch release, you were running a testing snapshot from before etch was released? |
| 15:35.23 | Bushmills | then you were running testing when etch was still testing. |
| 15:35.25 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: and first time you did an upgrade everything broke |
| 15:35.45 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: if you don't want to upgrade, use stable |
| 15:35.56 | babilen | PachecoJ: And your system probably had a *lot* of security problems |
| 15:36.07 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: testing changes continuously, every day, until it's released -- you can't install testing one day and never update it and then say you're running testing years later :-) |
| 15:36.08 | wols_ | PachecoJ: with an attitude of if it aint broke don't fix it, your branch of choice is stable, and stable only |
| 15:36.11 | PachecoJ | I want to use test, is there a way to go straight to wheezy or do I have to go Squeeze -> Wheezy |
| 15:36.14 | jelly-home | coming from etch, it's going to be fresh enough anyway |
| 15:36.21 | Wyzard | paccer: squeeze -> wheezy |
| 15:36.23 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: go squeeze->wheezy |
| 15:36.25 | Wyzard | err, PachecoJ ^^^ |
| 15:36.28 | Bushmills | not updating testing doesn't keep it testing, but converts to "unsupported" rapidly |
| 15:36.32 | PachecoJ | k |
| 15:36.53 | wols_ | Bushmills: not to mention "breaks very badly when you try to update" since too much has changed |
| 15:37.10 | Bushmills | well yes, can be a gamble |
| 15:37.11 | jelly-home | I'm using testing on desktop as well, but I try to keep up with it every few months at least |
| 15:37.13 | PachecoJ | well I learned my lesson and I'll stay on top of it now |
| 15:37.29 | Bushmills | but that's why we love testing, don't we? |
| 15:37.33 | PachecoJ | I always updated Etch with synaptic, until they came out with a new release |
| 15:37.33 | jelly-home | no |
| 15:37.43 | PachecoJ | I had "etch" in my sources.list so I stopped getting the updates |
| 15:37.55 | jelly-home | PachecoJ: that's a feature ;-) |
| 15:37.57 | Wyzard | ok, so you were running the etch stable release -- that's good |
| 15:38.02 | PachecoJ | yes |
| 15:38.04 | *** join/#debian yow (kcyow@219.85.138.240) |
| 15:38.11 | PachecoJ | I said I downloaded it when it "WAS": testing |
| 15:38.17 | PachecoJ | it wasn't testing by the time I got5 done with it |
| 15:38.29 | babilen | PachecoJ: And you even need to upgrade stable to get important security fixes. But this discussion is pointless, just install Squeeze and be done with it. |
| 15:39.00 | PachecoJ | I shall install squeeze and go to wheezy |
| 15:39.07 | PachecoJ | and soon enough wheezy will be stable :) |
| 15:39.17 | PachecoJ | and then forgotten and I will still be running it |
| 15:39.19 | Wyzard | It'll probably be more than a year |
| 15:39.22 | Bushmills | "soon" .. /me grins |
| 15:39.28 | PachecoJ | that's fine... I'll be on it for 5 |
| 15:39.44 | PachecoJ | so they don't release security updates for testing? |
| 15:39.46 | phw | wols_: That is what it looks like: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/115823/serial.png |
| 15:39.57 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: Only stable releases get direct security updates |
| 15:40.05 | PachecoJ | ah |
| 15:40.10 | wols_ | phw: bad serial port settings? |
| 15:40.16 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: Fixed versions of packages also go into unstable, like all new packages do, and from there they eventually move to testing |
| 15:40.19 | Bushmills | PachecoJ: testing is a moving target anyway. doesn't make a lot of sense to support it with security upgrades |
| 15:40.23 | babilen | PachecoJ: Well, there is are security updates for testing, but they are not well maintained. |
| 15:40.34 | PachecoJ | yeah, that's true |
| 15:40.35 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: but there's a delay involved, so testing is always the last to get security updates |
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| 15:40.45 | yow | hi everyone. i have a windows zipped archive that utilised PPMd method/algorithm, I wonder if it's possible to decompress under linux (Debian Squeeze?)? Any help, advice, ideas or pointers are welcome. TIA. |
| 15:41.02 | PachecoJ | well... I have to go to squeeze first anyway, so I'll do that, if I'm happy with it I'll stay there |
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| 15:41.33 | phw | wols_: I dont think so ,because the rest is displayed properly (the error message) |
| 15:42.17 | jelly-home | babilen: has there been a SINGLE security update for wheezy at all |
| 15:42.26 | babilen | jelly-home: no |
| 15:42.40 | babilen | jelly-home: doesn't mean that the infrastructure is not in place though ;) |
| 15:42.41 | cookiemon5ter | when will wheezy be released as stable |
| 15:42.47 | jelly-home | I'd say there are no updates for testing at all, then |
| 15:42.54 | jelly-home | !wwwr |
| 15:42.54 | dpkg | I don't know when Wheezy will release. Ask me about <wheezy pool> for contributed release date guesses. |
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| 15:43.08 | babilen | !wir |
| 15:43.08 | dpkg | from memory, wir is When It's Ready. See also <rsn> and <siyh>. |
| 15:43.42 | cookiemon5ter | hmm |
| 15:43.58 | yow | i've tried decompressing the archive using 7zip, unzip, atool and a Ruby script called "e" but to no avail. i have ppmd installed on my system, it seems it's possible to decompress it under linux, however, i could not find any sort of information on how to achieve it on the internet. |
| 15:44.17 | PachecoJ | the way I look at it, the testing branch has newer versions of software than stable, and the versions for each of the software have their own security updates rolled into them |
| 15:44.34 | phw | wols_: it seems everything works but it cant display those fancy boot graphics from grub |
| 15:44.45 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: but there's a delay before testing gets those versions |
| 15:44.54 | jelly-home | yow: does its name give any clue as to the archiver used |
| 15:44.57 | yow | anyone here ever decompressed "ppmd" zipped archive? |
| 15:44.58 | phw | wols_: I need to know how to install the system ignoring that it has no display |
| 15:45.09 | PachecoJ | I thought the versions had to go through testing before they go to stable |
| 15:45.14 | PachecoJ | so testing would get them first |
| 15:45.22 | yow | jelly-home, first of all, thx for your reply |
| 15:45.26 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: packages go through unstable to get to testing |
| 15:45.36 | PachecoJ | and then from testing to stable |
| 15:45.40 | cookiemon5ter | yow: aptitude search ppmd |
| 15:45.40 | yow | jelly-home, yes, its file extension is ".zip" |
| 15:45.44 | PachecoJ | so testing would have security updates before stable |
| 15:45.46 | babilen | PachecoJ: they also come with new bugs and security holes too. Newer does not mean better security, in particular because the software is not well tested. If security fixes are released upstream they are typically backported to older versions as well. |
| 15:45.52 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: not quite -- packages from testing will never go into squeeze, for example |
| 15:46.16 | jelly-home | yow: and unzip -l lists the contents? |
| 15:46.17 | yow | jelly-home, also, when I tried to decompressed it using various tool, it displayed this error meg: "`PPMd' method not supported" |
| 15:46.21 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: Instead, when the bugs in testing have been worked out, it becomes a new release (e.g. wheezy) |
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| 15:46.42 | phw | wols_: as it seems to hang there: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/115823/serial2.png |
| 15:46.42 | Wyzard | PachecoJ: Security updates for stable take a different path: they go directly into stable, without going through unstable and testing |
| 15:46.55 | PachecoJ | oh |
| 15:46.57 | yow | cookiemon5ter, i've installed ppmd, its man page is rather brief and simple yet, i find it hard to understand how to use the command |
| 15:46.58 | PachecoJ | was it always that way? |
| 15:47.00 | jelly-home | yow: *shrug* I'd try wine and Winzip |
| 15:47.01 | Wyzard | yes |
| 15:47.12 | yow | jelly-home, i can `unzip -l' the contents |
| 15:47.17 | PachecoJ | when I ran sarge (when it was in testing) I was under the impression that things went unstable->testing->stable |
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| 15:47.38 | babilen | PachecoJ: That *never* happened and will never happen. |
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| 15:47.49 | babilen | Well, unless for a new release ;) |
| 15:47.52 | PachecoJ | well no, I guess that's not true now that I think about it |
| 15:47.57 | PachecoJ | yeah |
| 15:48.00 | PachecoJ | no, that makes sense |
| 15:48.15 | yow | jelly-home, thx for your info, i do not know winzip work under wine, however, is there any native or true linux way to decompress the archive?? |
| 15:48.28 | PachecoJ | k, thanks for clearing things up guys, I will go to Squeeze and be happy |
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| 15:49.09 | yow | jelly-home, although this is the first time i encountered `ppmd' "enabled" compressed archive, however, im thinking there must be a way to decompressed it. |
| 15:49.25 | jelly-home | yow: I don't know whether InfoZip (linux zip/unzip tools source) is updated for that compression method |
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| 15:50.11 | yow | jelly-home & cookiemon5ter, actually, when i decompressed it using various tools, i managed to decompress part of the archives but some files failed and some files seems "duplicate". |
| 15:50.12 | phw | I can not continue my Debian Squeeze installtion via serial terminal as it tells me that it does not recognize my graphics card (that computer doesn't have one): [Undefined video mode number: 314]. Can someone help? |
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| 15:50.16 | wols_ | yow: what did unzip say when you tried to use it? |
| 15:51.04 | yow | wols_, unzip error msg: "`PPMd' method not supported" |
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| 15:51.57 | wols_ | yow: use 7zip |
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| 15:52.20 | wols_ | yow: which a simple google "PPMD zip" showed me |
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| 15:52.58 | cookiemon5ter | http://www.dotnetperls.com/7-zip-examples |
| 15:52.58 | yow | wols_, i did but failed too. i've checked this doc: /usr/share/doc/p7zip-full/DOCS/MANUAL/switches/method.htm which mentioned about the PPMd method but don't know how to use it to decompressed |
| 15:53.10 | wols_ | !tell phw about nofb |
| 15:53.24 | yow | wols_, i have p7zip-full and ppmd installed |
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| 15:55.09 | phw | wols_: aaaaah! Thank you very much! |
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| 15:56.01 | yow | wols_, in the doc i given just now, it demonstrated a compression example using the `PPMd' method: `7z a -t7z archive.7z *.txt -m0=PPMd', however, it seems that the method/command(?) can be used to compress but not decompress archive. |
| 15:57.43 | wols_ | yow: then why didn't you read the docs what those various options for 7z mean? |
| 15:58.48 | yow | wols_, I did a couple of times at the related section but quite confused. |
| 15:59.23 | jelly-home | yow: is this archive avalable for public download somewhere? |
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| 15:59.57 | yow | wols_, i tried "-m=ppmd" & "-m=PPMd" but still failed |
| 16:00.26 | yow | jelly-home, sorry but no. |
| 16:01.31 | jelly-home | tell your vendor to use a more compatible archive format ;-) |
| 16:01.50 | jelly-home | (and compression method) |
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| 16:02.54 | yow | jelly-home, in a way, i think i can login to windows and decompress the archive, however, since i decided to use linux, i don't think that's a wise move |
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| 16:03.54 | jelly-home | I bet winzip works well in wine or cxoffice |
| 16:04.09 | yow | jelly-home, is there anyone here ever decompressed archive that utilises `PPMd' method? |
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| 16:05.36 | jelly-home | yow: I don't keep track! |
| 16:06.38 | yow | jelly-home, i would like to avoid using winzip not only because it's a windows software, also, because it's not a freeware. above all, im seeking a linux way to do it. or, at least, im hoping to know if linux is capable to do the job. |
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| 16:07.26 | yow | jelly-home, sorry for putting your name in front of my prev msg by mistake, i meant to ask everyone in the room. |
| 16:07.50 | niteye | there are a lot of things windows can do that linux cant, like letting me peak through the bedroom window of a hot girl while i'm in a tree with binoculars |
| 16:07.53 | jelly-home | yow: I use tools that work. |
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| 16:09.01 | yow | jelly-home, as for me, i would say i always try to find a linux way to do things |
| 16:09.50 | jelly-home | yow: have you looked at infozip's web page or forum for PPMd support? |
| 16:10.37 | yow | jelly-home, just about to. just found out that the "PPMd" method was first introduced in winzip 10.0 beta. |
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| 16:11.40 | phw | I only get scrambled up words/characters in my installer (via Terminal) though the boxes of the installer are drawn correctly. Also - upon reconnect the "repainted" parts are displayed correctly.... Have a look here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/115823/messed_up.png |
| 16:11.49 | yow | jelly-home, anyhow, it seems to me that (linux? windows only?) 7zip should be able to do it too, but, i don't know how. you can say it's beyond my understanding. |
| 16:12.35 | jelly-home | yow: as far as I know 7zip is just a compression tool, not an archiver |
| 16:13.29 | yow | jelly-home, really? i thought it's 2-in-1? |
| 16:14.13 | yow | jelly-home, what i know is that 7zip can do what tar+gzip or tar+bzip2 does in 1 line. |
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| 16:16.13 | jelly-home | yow: it's possible; "7z" used not to be able to handle archives |
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| 16:16.40 | nkuttler | yow: um, man tar.. |
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| 16:17.53 | yow | jelly-home, ic |
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| 16:18.31 | yow | nkuttler, man tar? what for, sorry for asking. |
| 16:18.32 | Dewi | 7zip is an archiver |
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| 16:19.08 | nkuttler | yow: < yow> jelly-home, what i know is that 7zip can do what tar+gzip or tar+bzip2 does in 1 line. |
| 16:19.15 | Dewi | nobody makes non-archiving compressors for windows |
| 16:20.03 | yow | nkuttler, i know `tar zcf...' & `tar jcf...' i used them, esp the latter very often |
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| 16:22.18 | syockit | Anything that wget can do that aria2c can't, apart from spider-mirroring? |
| 16:22.48 | syockit | I'm considering using aria as my default downloader as it can do multiple connections across several mirrors |
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| 16:23.58 | uin302269 | hello, peoples |
| 16:24.17 | syockit | also, is there an apt plugin that uses aria2 so that it can download a package from multiple mirrors? |
| 16:24.34 | jelly-home | syockit: are your debian mirrors really that slow? |
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| 16:26.30 | yow | on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7z), it shows that 7zip does support PPMd method (as shown in /usr/share/doc/p7zip-full/DOCS/MANUAL/switches/method.htm), however, i haven't figured out how to use it in the decompressing command. anyone has any idea? |
| 16:27.25 | syockit | jelly-home: not all the time. local mirror (debmal) is very slow, so I use hongkong or japan instead. but they don't always get 100KiB/s; sometimes it becomes 10KiB/s |
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| 16:28.07 | syockit | but from an ideological thinking, downloading from multiple mirrors beats the purpose of having a local mirror. what the heck am I trying to do |
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| 16:29.22 | syockit | what's that prog to test apt mirror speeds? Can I add unofficial repos to it too? |
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| 16:30.16 | jamescarr | hey guys... I'm trying to install a deb and it is missing the erlang-nox dependency... I thought you could just do something to fetch dependencies? |
| 16:30.25 | *** join/#debian bkraptor (~bkraptor@unaffiliated/bkraptor) |
| 16:30.28 | jamescarr | Not using apt because the version of rabbitmq-server in apt is old |
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| 16:30.51 | jelly-home | !apt-spy |
| 16:30.51 | dpkg | a secret! Shh! 'Mirror, mirror, on the wall... who is the fastest of them all?' Note that it will overwrite your sources.list when finished, so (1) cp /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.mybak (2) apt-get install apt-spy (3) apt-spy update; apt-spy -d [stable,testing,unstable] -a [Africa,Asia,Europe,North-America,Oceania,South-America] (4) fix your sources.list by adding back in any other mirrors you had been using. |
| 16:31.12 | jamescarr | jelly, there are no mirrors that have the latest one ;) |
| 16:31.15 | jhutchins_lt | netselect/netselect-apt |
| 16:31.29 | jelly-home | jamescarr: that wasn't for you, sorry |
| 16:31.32 | syockit | jamescarr: use gdebi? |
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| 16:31.52 | jamescarr | syockit, this is a server, not installing X on it |
| 16:31.52 | jelly-home | ,provides erlang-nox |
| 16:31.53 | judd | Package erlang-nox in squeeze/i386 provides no additional packages. |
| 16:31.54 | jhutchins_lt | jamescarr: install it with dpkg, then use aptitude to fetch dependencies. |
| 16:32.00 | syockit | jamescarr: gdebi-core |
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| 16:32.19 | syockit | jamescarr: though it uses python |
| 16:32.37 | jamescarr | oh I made assumptions based on the g |
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| 16:32.44 | jamescarr | since gnome apps usually put a g in front |
| 16:33.07 | jelly-home | no need to use gdebi where dpkg and apt are sufficient |
| 16:33.09 | syockit | jamescarr: the non core package does depend on gnome, so you weren't wrong. |
| 16:33.23 | syockit | well, it makes for easy job |
| 16:33.38 | jelly-home | but then again I guess gdebi is for users that can't or don't want to deal with lower level tools |
| 16:33.56 | syockit | though I'm a fan of dpkg+aptitude myself |
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| 16:34.18 | jelly-home | aptitude's choices when mixing releases can be... suboptimal |
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| 16:35.01 | syockit | jelly-home: maybe you can modify the scoring or release priorty? |
| 16:36.32 | jamescarr | I think that this is just an issue with the erlang package |
| 16:36.45 | jamescarr | apt-get install erlang gives me the same error over elang-nox |
| 16:38.32 | syockit | jamescarr: do you have aptitude? it will show what is missing. I don't know the flags for apt-get to do the same thing |
| 16:38.59 | jelly-home | jamescarr: pastebin the actual commands and the whole output. |
| 16:39.03 | jelly-home | !bat |
| 16:39.03 | dpkg | In order for us to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, aptitude or dselect we need the following information: The complete output of your apt-get/aptitude/dselect run (including the command you used); the output from apt-cache policy PKG1 PKG2...; for the relevant packages and "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
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| 16:39.31 | init[1] | i'm trying to user iptables -m owner feature to have application level firewall, ie to allow only apps that i have whitelisted. The notion i have im my mind is to run the program with EGID as 'netpriv'. well seems like its PITA. since as 'me' as the user have EGID as 'users' it wont work. Have you got any suggestions ? |
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| 16:40.01 | jelly-home | init[1]: mmm, ask in ##iptables or ##netfilter |
| 16:40.07 | jamescarr | I got it |
| 16:40.15 | jamescarr | had to run sudo apt-get install -f |
| 16:40.24 | init[1] | jelly-home: i have they are kinda silent :( |
| 16:40.41 | jelly-home | init[1]: be patient, it's normal for channels to get quiet over weekends |
| 16:40.57 | antiwire | init[1]: to answer the group question, when I install Slackware and add users to the system I made each user's default group membership be in a group named the same as the user. |
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| 16:42.09 | antiwire | then I add users to the users group separately. I know others in here do the same and imo it makes group based permission handling easier |
| 16:42.13 | antiwire | and more granular |
| 16:43.25 | antiwire | hey, i typed all of that in the wrong channel. |
| 16:43.32 | antiwire | ... |
| 16:43.38 | init[1] | antiwire: yea i know ;) |
| 16:43.45 | init[1] | ##slackware ? |
| 16:43.46 | init[1] | :P |
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| 16:43.59 | jelly-home | ##noone_minded_anyway |
| 16:44.23 | antiwire | :) |
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| 16:55.30 | Defusal | hi everyone, does anyone know of a cross platform software based KVM switch, which i can use like VNC or NX, but that relays what the host machines graphics card would have rendered to a client machine, preferably something optimized for use over a 1Gbps ethernet connection? I need to be able to use my ubuntu machine in any way needed without any restrictions that a remote session such as VNC |
| 16:55.31 | Defusal | or NX, which are optimized for very little bandwidth, would have... including some 3d support |
| 16:56.05 | Defusal | i cant seem to find anything of the sort, but surely 1Gbps is more than enough bandwidth to seamlessly relay each pixel displayed in realtime... |
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| 16:57.31 | *** part/#debian init[1] (1000@shellium/member/buffer) |
| 16:57.57 | Defusal | i have two debian desktop machines i'd like to able to make full use of, but i dont want to have to buy an expensive HDMI KVM switch, someone must have made a software based alternative :( |
| 16:59.33 | stew | Defusal: perhaps synergy |
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| 17:00.16 | stew | oh, perhaps not if you only have one monitor |
| 17:00.24 | wols | Defusal: btw it's not. otherwise we wouldn't invent PCIE x16 busses :) |
| 17:00.52 | wols | Defusal: there are VNC clients optimized for 3D btw |
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| 17:01.18 | wols | virtualgl and turbovnc IIRC |
| 17:01.29 | Bushmills | a video driver, masquerading as v4l device? |
| 17:01.35 | stew | 24 bits per pixel, 1 million pixels 60 frames per second is more than a gigabit/s, yes |
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| 17:02.00 | wols | stew: granted, you can compress a lot |
| 17:02.52 | *** join/#debian sgtGarcia (~garcia@ip-89-174-83-200.multimo.pl) |
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| 17:03.11 | Defusal | hmm |
| 17:03.22 | Defusal | i dont mean im going to be gaming |
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| 17:03.54 | Defusal | but it would nice to be able to render something when needed or use compiz without any performance issue |
| 17:03.55 | wols | Defusal: from what I remember turbovnc is a vnc optimized for big bandwith links |
| 17:03.59 | Defusal | i need it to feel native |
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| 17:04.23 | Defusal | ill look into it, thanks wols |
| 17:04.27 | stew | X11 is a network protocol for just this kind of thing |
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| 17:04.49 | Defusal | yeah, but it seems rather limited in every implementation i've ever tried :( |
| 17:04.51 | stew | you run an Xserver on one machine and X clients from eiter can show their windows there |
| 17:05.04 | stew | Defusal: what seems limited? |
| 17:05.46 | Defusal | thats why i said cross platform |
| 17:05.59 | wols | X11 is very crossplatform |
| 17:06.00 | Defusal | since the machine i need to use as a client, is unfortuantly windows |
| 17:06.56 | antiwire | there are X11 suites for windows |
| 17:06.57 | Defusal | stew, if using a 2d windows manager feels and renders slower than natively |
| 17:07.02 | antiwire | Xming, cygwin itself, lots |
| 17:07.09 | Defusal | then anything even slightly 3d doesnt stand a chance |
| 17:07.25 | Defusal | i want it to feel native |
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| 17:07.44 | Defusal | and i feel that 1Gbps should more than enough bandwidth for that |
| 17:08.09 | antiwire | it's not, that's why multimedia codecs exist for realtime communication streaming. |
| 17:08.11 | Defusal | my eye can see the lines being drawn of a new window |
| 17:08.32 | Defusal | i didnt get nice hardware to feel like im working on a 486 |
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| 17:09.23 | wols | Defusal: then get appropriate hardware like a KVM to share the monitor. or if that's two expensive, a 2nd one. TFTs start at 150EUR |
| 17:09.26 | Defusal | antiwire, well i need to find the best implementation for high speed LAN, but that seems to be easier said than done |
| 17:09.40 | wols | s/two/too |
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| 17:10.05 | Defusal | wols, the point is to be able to use multiple boxes from my nice kb, mouse and 27" LCD |
| 17:10.15 | Defusal | not work on a shitty small CRT :( |
| 17:10.49 | Defusal | even a HDMI KVM supporting only a couple machines will be very expensive |
| 17:10.54 | wols | that monitor would be a 22" TFT. and: if you don't like it, buy a KVM |
| 17:11.26 | wols | $200 apparently. your monitor cost a lot more |
| 17:11.29 | Defusal | and why should i waste money on that, when i just paid a small fortune for the hardware and Gbps switch, assuming theres some decent software solution by now |
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| 17:12.19 | wols | Gbps and small fortune? *g* |
| 17:12.23 | Defusal | if theres no software solution by now, 2011, that is very sad for software development |
| 17:12.35 | Defusal | small fortune, in PC hardware for the actual boxes |
| 17:12.44 | Defusal | i have *no* money left, i spent every last cent |
| 17:12.56 | Woet | Defusal: and what kind of hardware did you buy? |
| 17:12.58 | Woet | server or desktop? |
| 17:13.14 | Defusal | desktop, else i wouldnt be needing a KVM... |
| 17:13.16 | wols | Woet: desktops apparently |
| 17:13.25 | Woet | right |
| 17:13.35 | Defusal | i also got myself a nice VPS, which im in the process of migrating most of my services too |
| 17:13.42 | Defusal | well, production ones anyway |
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| 17:14.01 | Woet | but |
| 17:14.01 | Defusal | i7's arnt very cheap |
| 17:14.08 | Woet | "I need to be able to use my ubuntu machine in any way needed without any restrictions that a remote session such as VNC" |
| 17:14.16 | Woet | what kind of restrictions? |
| 17:14.25 | Defusal | i need it to feel native |
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| 17:14.31 | Defusal | which is does not come close to doing |
| 17:14.38 | wols | Defusal: didn't you say one box was windows? |
| 17:14.44 | Defusal | the client box |
| 17:14.50 | wols | Defusal: and the other one is? |
| 17:14.52 | Defusal | which is why i said it has to be cross platform |
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| 17:15.06 | Defusal | wols, i have a debian box, an ubuntu box and a gentoo box |
| 17:15.07 | Rienzilla | then you're stuck with VNC, or a windows based X-server |
| 17:15.07 | *** join/#debian dzup (~dzup@unaffiliated/dzup) |
| 17:15.16 | Rienzilla | or, a KVM swtich |
| 17:15.20 | Rienzilla | switch* |
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| 17:15.43 | Defusal | Rienzilla, then i lose even more hope in software development :( |
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| 17:16.00 | Woet | i'm not sure why you first bought the hardware, and now think how you're going to control it |
| 17:16.02 | *** join/#debian tvm (~tvm@router-vinice.pilsfree.net) |
| 17:16.03 | Rienzilla | how so? |
| 17:16.09 | Defusal | i dont understand how no one could have come up with a decent software based KVM switch |
| 17:16.21 | Woet | because KVMs cannot be made in software? |
| 17:16.29 | Defusal | its 2011, the concept of a KVM is nothing new |
| 17:16.31 | Woet | how do you want to be able to access the BIOS through a software based KVM? |
| 17:16.35 | Defusal | that it not true at all.. |
| 17:16.44 | Defusal | i never said i needed that |
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| 17:16.51 | Defusal | that is obvious... |
| 17:16.52 | Woet | i know, but you say you want a software KVM |
| 17:17.04 | wols | Defusal: it is. just check what bandwith your HDMI uses and what your NIC has available |
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| 17:17.10 | Rienzilla | why would you want a softeware kvm? |
| 17:17.12 | Woet | and you cannot name a feature that VNC lacks |
| 17:17.17 | wols | Rienzilla: to save money |
| 17:17.17 | Defusal | yes, but i dont expect it to do what is physically impossible for software to accomplish... |
| 17:17.26 | Rienzilla | yeah, software is free and hardware is not |
| 17:17.28 | Rienzilla | *sigh* |
| 17:17.31 | wols | Defusal: it is impossible with your latency demands |
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| 17:18.06 | MeglaW | hw can be free, so can running it be if you find it and have free power in your apt/house or whatever |
| 17:18.26 | Defusal | wols, how many Gbps is required to render an entire 2d static window, from top to bottom, faster than the eye can see |
| 17:18.44 | Woet | i've ran vnc on a local 1 gbit network and it feels completely native |
| 17:18.53 | Rienzilla | 100*1920x1080x32 bits per second |
| 17:19.04 | Woet | but that wasn't 1920x1080 though |
| 17:19.20 | Rienzilla | that's like 6M/s |
| 17:19.20 | Defusal | thats my resolution, which is kinda big on my 27" |
| 17:19.24 | Defusal | but its on 60Hz |
| 17:19.29 | Rienzilla | no wait |
| 17:19.33 | Defusal | only* |
| 17:19.41 | Woet | Rienzilla: 6 gbit |
| 17:19.53 | Defusal | Woet, ok, so you're saying VNC feels more native than NX? |
| 17:19.54 | wols | Defusal: 1920x1080*24bits*60Hz |
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| 17:20.07 | Rienzilla | it's like 800MByte/s |
| 17:20.12 | Rienzilla | yeah, 6 gbit |
| 17:20.12 | Defusal | because im using FreeNX right now, as its protocol is supposed to be far better than VNC |
| 17:20.17 | Woet | or by wols calculation, 2.7 gbit |
| 17:20.32 | kevke | Hey ppl, small question... first of all, I managed to restore 87% of all files (in regards to the servercrash on Wednesday (some of you might remember), so installed a new server and it works like a charm. However, I figured out, that a database I pulled from the old server is (give or take) 2 month old. We would survive with that one, however, can I McGyver the old database (from the mysql folder) to the new one? |
| 17:20.37 | Rienzilla | and that's just bandwidth. Then comes jitter and latency |
| 17:20.50 | Defusal | so i need 6 ethernet cards in each machine |
| 17:20.52 | Defusal | great |
| 17:20.59 | Woet | or just think before you buy hardware |
| 17:21.07 | Woet | instead of first buying, then thinking how you're going to control it |
| 17:21.17 | Defusal | theres very little jitter or latency over a ethernet connection a couple feet long |
| 17:21.19 | Rienzilla | small kvm switches are pretty cheap nowadays |
| 17:21.28 | Woet | Defusal: which motherboard did you buy? |
| 17:21.28 | Defusal | but if the b/w isnt there, it isnt there :/ |
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| 17:21.55 | Defusal | brb |
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| 17:22.08 | wols | Defusal: latency on tcpip is always bigger than a dedicated hdmi link too I'd guess |
| 17:22.14 | Rienzilla | well, this discussion is pretty pointless :) |
| 17:22.18 | wols | if only the shoveling frm VRAM to the network |
| 17:22.36 | Rienzilla | I want a software-car :) |
| 17:22.36 | Woet | Defusal: you know that a 4 port kvm switch is only about 50 USD? |
| 17:22.44 | Bushmills | does your expensive 27" screen not have two video inputs, selectable? |
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| 17:23.07 | Woet | wait, let me correct that |
| 17:23.14 | wols | Woet: hdmi? |
| 17:23.14 | Woet | it's 20 USD |
| 17:23.16 | Rienzilla | 48.50? :) |
| 17:23.18 | Rienzilla | oh haha |
| 17:23.28 | Woet | VGA |
| 17:23.33 | Woet | why wouldnt that be enough? |
| 17:23.49 | Arrowmaster | a good dvi/hdmi + usb one is expensive |
| 17:23.51 | wols | cause it would look like crap on a 27" FHD display? |
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| 17:24.17 | Arrowmaster | the cheap ones with usb often mess it up |
| 17:24.23 | maligor | I've noticed that chance of vga noise increases with resolution |
| 17:24.24 | wols | Woet: yes it's stupid to buy a 1000$ TFT but don't think beforehand, but oh well... |
| 17:24.39 | Woet | wols: VGA can do 1080p |
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| 17:24.52 | wols | FVSO of can |
| 17:26.31 | Bushmills | a video card, allowing input from another video card as overlay? |
| 17:26.43 | Woet | but if you insist, wols |
| 17:26.49 | Woet | i have a 4 port HDMI kvm for 50.85 USD |
| 17:26.53 | Woet | with a remote |
| 17:26.54 | Woet | :P |
| 17:27.00 | maligor | Bushmills, good old voodoo cards |
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| 17:28.26 | Bushmills | cable length may matter |
| 17:28.35 | ghoti | So what's the recommended way to keep nginx current on Squeeze, with its woefully obsolete pkg version? Just install from source into /opt? Has anyone tried using the wheezy source in Squeeze? Any other suggestions? |
| 17:28.57 | wols | ,versions nginx |
| 17:28.58 | judd | Package nginx on i386 -- lenny: 0.6.32-3+lenny3; lenny-security: 0.6.32-3+lenny3; lenny-backports: 0.7.67-3~bpo50+1; squeeze: 0.7.67-3; sid: 1.0.1-1; wheezy: 1.0.1-1; sid: 1.0.4-1 |
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| 17:29.26 | Woet | ghoti: it has a lot of dependencies, i would compiling it from source |
| 17:30.02 | jelly-home | ghoti: howEVER, it doesn't have many _versioned_ build dependencies, so it's probably backportable |
| 17:30.10 | jelly-home | <g> |
| 17:30.16 | ghoti | hmm. |
| 17:30.19 | babilen | I would try it ... /msg dpkg ssb |
| 17:30.33 | ghoti | ssb? |
| 17:30.54 | babilen | ghoti: Type "/msg dpkg ssb" in your IRC client |
| 17:30.59 | jelly-home | build your own packages, keep them up to date with "uupdate" and ssb procedure |
| 17:31.10 | babilen | indeed |
| 17:31.27 | ghoti | babilen: I know how to /msg, I didn't recognize the acronym. |
| 17:31.36 | jelly-home | simple sid backport |
| 17:31.41 | ghoti | ah |
| 17:31.43 | ghoti | thanks. |
| 17:31.51 | babilen | ghoti: Ah, sorry misconstrued your question |
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| 17:32.13 | jelly-home | ghoti: /msg dpkg literal ssb |
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| 17:32.58 | ghoti | tnx |
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| 17:37.18 | Defusal | even if $50 isnt that much to you |
| 17:37.32 | Defusal | its quite a bit in my currency |
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| 17:37.52 | wols | a currency that is worse than the USD? can't be! |
| 17:37.57 | Defusal | which doesnt help anything when i spent all my savings on my new hardware |
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| 17:38.42 | Defusal | so i guess it will have to wait, and ill have to use a delayed, slow connection until then :( |
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| 17:39.09 | dym | Spending all your savings on new hardware = WIN! |
| 17:39.10 | dym | (: |
| 17:39.36 | Defusal | not when you cant use the new hardware properly until spending even more :/ |
| 17:40.13 | dym | why is that? |
| 17:40.14 | dym | didnt follow. |
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| 17:41.00 | Wyzard | Defusal: Reading back, it looks like you want something that's like VNC, but as responsive as if the monitor were plugged into the machine directly |
| 17:41.06 | *** join/#debian Deadguy (~Deadguy@pdpc/supporter/active/deadguy) |
| 17:41.13 | Wyzard | The limitation there isn't the software, it's the network |
| 17:41.14 | abdelkhalak | how to make debian log in automatically by a default user using gdm and gnome? |
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| 17:41.25 | Defusal | dym, need a hardware KVM switch to use my 27" LCD and kb + mouse since its apparently impossible to use a software one |
| 17:41.33 | Defusal | since i have multiple boxes |
| 17:42.20 | yow | jelly-home, wols, nkuttler, it's too late over here and i'll continue tomorrow. thx for your help. bye now. |
| 17:42.26 | Defusal | Wyzard, well the bandwidth limitation directly limits what is possible with software running on commercial hardware |
| 17:42.31 | kevke | Hey ppl, small question... first of all, I managed to restore 87% of all files (in regards to the servercrash on Wednesday (some of you might remember), so installed a new server and it works like a charm. However, I figured out, that a database I pulled from the old server is (give or take) 2 month old. We would survive with that one, however, can I McGyver the old (newer) database (from the mysql folder) to the new one? |
| 17:42.39 | *** join/#debian miha (~miha@wolfey.si) |
| 17:42.47 | Wyzard | Defusal: VNC can do exactly what you want; the reason it's not responsive is that the network isn't fast enough |
| 17:42.59 | miha | looking at this http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-how-to-delete-file-securely.html ost of these utilities are not effective (read as useless) only if : |
| 17:43.00 | jelly-home | kevke: MyISAM backend? |
| 17:43.03 | miha | File system is log-structured or journaled filesystems, such as JFS, ReiserFS, XFS, Ext3 etc .. so what to choose? :) |
| 17:43.14 | Wyzard | Defusal: maybe if you had a 10gbit LAN |
| 17:43.38 | kevke | via shell |
| 17:43.42 | Wyzard | Defusal: but don't complain about software failing to do something that's physically impossible for the hardware it's running on |
| 17:43.43 | soapie | miha: data=ordered setting should make that not a problem |
| 17:43.49 | abdelkhalak | hwo to log in to gnome without a session manager? |
| 17:43.52 | Defusal | i guess i'd have to research the details more, but ill just take your word for it and save myself some time |
| 17:44.02 | wols | kevke: MyISAM is a mysql database format |
| 17:44.09 | abdelkhalak | !gnome |
| 17:44.10 | dpkg | GNOME is a Desktop Environment ("DE", so are <KDE> and <XFCE>) based on GTK+. To get or delete GNOME, ask me about <install gnome> or <remove gnome> respectively. See also <gnome status>. http:/wiki.debian.org/Gnome http://www.gnome.org/ #gnome-debian on irc.gnome.org. GNOME-related IRC channels: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeIrcChannels |
| 17:44.28 | miha | soapie: explain please (noob) :) |
| 17:44.29 | Defusal | it just seems strange that 1Gbps with under 1ms latency isnt enough to draw the pixels of a static 2d window in under 30ms |
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| 17:44.42 | Defusal | but ill just give up, save up and buy more hardware -.- |
| 17:44.43 | abdelkhalak | !remove gnome |
| 17:44.43 | dpkg | To remove or purge GNOME 2.x: aptitude remove ~nlibgnome ~nlibbonobo2 ~nliborbit2 ~nlibgnomeui ~nlibgnomevfs2. Use 'purge' instead of 'remove' if that's what you want (ask me about <purge>). |
| 17:44.51 | tonsofpcs | Defusal: huh? |
| 17:44.51 | Wyzard | Defusal: What's your monitor's resolution |
| 17:44.53 | wols | !tell abdelkhalak about msgthebot |
| 17:44.54 | kevke | wols: how do I figure that out |
| 17:45.03 | DammitJim | do you guys know what I can use to load an ipod with music w/o itunes? |
| 17:45.10 | Defusal | Wyzard, 1920x1080 |
| 17:45.11 | wols | kevke: you get a DBA who knows what hes doing? |
| 17:45.21 | soapie | miha: read man shred and it gives some info |
| 17:45.26 | abdelkhalak | !msgtheboot |
| 17:45.27 | Defusal | but surely it only has to redraw the pixels of the window that changed, not the entire screen |
| 17:45.37 | *** join/#debian Deadguy (~Deadguy@pdpc/supporter/active/deadguy) |
| 17:45.38 | abdelkhalak | !msgthebot |
| 17:45.38 | dpkg | Please have conversations with the bots in a private message as much as possible. Instead of using "!topic" or "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" in the channel, you can just "/msg dpkg topic". See <bot help> and http://wiki.debian.org/IRC/DpkgBot to learn more and browse my factoids on-line at http://ircbots.debian.net/ . If you're helping people, you can check that you have the right factoid before showing it to others. |
| 17:45.53 | kevke | nope |
| 17:46.04 | Wyzard | Defusal: determining which pixels changed adds latency |
| 17:46.05 | miha | soapie: thx! |
| 17:46.19 | wols | abdelkhalak: please stop spamming the channel. use /msg dpkg <topic> |
| 17:46.29 | Defusal | true, doesnt X have hooks for that Wyzard? |
| 17:46.32 | abdelkhalak | wols:sorry |
| 17:46.53 | wols | abdelkhalak: no sorry accepted. not the first time you've beend told this |
| 17:47.29 | Defusal | ill have a look at TurboVNC like wols suggested |
| 17:47.30 | wols | Defusal: X has to determine that as does vnc. the act of determining adds the latency |
| 17:47.34 | Gump_ | #debian, how can i view kannada script? do i need to enable multilingual support or can i just install the font? |
| 17:47.37 | soapie | miha: np :p ordered is default FWIU, I was worried about this as well at one point |
| 17:47.40 | Wyzard | Defusal: The DAMAGE extension does something like that, but I don't know the details of how it works -- it's probably based on computing bounding rectangles |
| 17:47.44 | Defusal | if that doesnt work out, ill have to give up, save up and get hardware |
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| 17:48.01 | miha | soapie: i have some funny idea to shred /home/user recursively :) |
| 17:48.14 | Defusal | thanks everyone |
| 17:48.31 | Wyzard | Defusal: A full 24bpp 60fps video signal for a 1920x1080 monitor requires 356MB/sec, which is about three times the theoretical limit of gigabit Ethernet |
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| 17:48.56 | Wyzard | Defusal: so to redraw even a third of the screen you're at the limit of your network, and that's ignoring packet framing overhead |
| 17:48.59 | wols | Wyzard: and don't forget the latency introduced by copying the data around |
| 17:50.00 | Woet | Defusal: i told you before, a HDMI kvm switch (4 ports) is only 50 USD |
| 17:50.32 | Wyzard | Woet: Interesting... last time I checked, a 2-port DVI+USB KVM was around $100 |
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| 17:50.56 | Wyzard | I might buy one if they've come down |
| 17:51.50 | Woet | Wyzard / Defusal: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817422018 |
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| 17:52.14 | Wyzard | oh, that doesn't do USB |
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| 17:52.30 | Wyzard | For a PC you need to switch the keyboard and mouse, not just the monitor |
| 17:52.32 | Woet | oh, right, that would be separate |
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| 17:54.58 | DammitJim | anyone familiar with banshee? |
| 17:55.09 | wols | !tell DammitJim about anyone |
| 17:55.28 | Wyzard | I've used it before, but I prefer quodlibet |
| 17:55.47 | JohnWittle | mpd + ncmpcpp or bust |
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| 18:11.10 | Defusal | damn, Woet got my hopes up |
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| 18:11.28 | Defusal | not i realize a hardware KVM wont be afforable any time soon |
| 18:11.31 | Defusal | now* |
| 18:11.39 | Defusal | oh well :/ |
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| 18:15.19 | benedikt | I am trying to connect to a WEP network on the commandling with iw{config, list} but it refuses to assosciate with the AP |
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| 18:16.21 | dokma | #xorg is dead so I'm asking here.... xrandr is reporting that my maximum is 1680x1680 even though I've got Virtual 2560 1024 in xorg.conf |
| 18:16.24 | ag4ve | isn't network-manager the default now? |
| 18:16.30 | benedikt | my procedure is iwconfig channel, iwconfig essied, iwconfig key |
| 18:16.36 | dokma | so I cannot put my screens one next to the other |
| 18:16.40 | sprink | are there any packages in the repos for writing a bootable iso to a usb drive? |
| 18:16.50 | simonlnu | ag4ve: for? |
| 18:17.15 | simonlnu | never heard of such a thing, and doubts it would |
| 18:17.18 | ag4ve | for every distro that i know of... |
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| 18:17.42 | simonlnu | default for what? |
| 18:18.57 | ag4ve | i was just saying that i hadn't used iw* for a while because most systems i've used have network-manager installed |
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| 18:19.35 | s1m | sprink: Yes , there is unetbootin. |
| 18:19.50 | simonlnu | a lot of the people i know here use wicd, or just the regular ifupdown stuff |
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| 18:20.30 | benedikt | ag4ve: yes, network-manager is the default. However, im finally switching from gnome to something a little less bloated. ill try out wicd. |
| 18:20.40 | wols | sprink: dd if=isofile.iso of=/dev/sdb |
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| 18:21.01 | simonlnu | default for gnome, perhaps |
| 18:21.02 | sprink | wols: i tried that, it wouldn't boot |
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| 18:22.14 | s1m | sprink: try , cat debian.iso > /dev/sdx , then sync. |
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| 18:24.42 | sprink | s1m: just type sync afterwards? |
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| 18:26.03 | sprink | I dont understand why unetbootin isn't in my repos |
| 18:26.12 | sprink | when I have them all enabled and updated |
| 18:26.13 | wols | s1m: the dd command above already does this |
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| 18:26.36 | wols | ,versions unetbootin |
| 18:26.38 | judd | Package unetbootin on i386 -- squeeze: 471-2; sid: 549-1; wheezy: 549-1 |
| 18:26.39 | babilen | s/dd/cat |
| 18:27.09 | babilen | sprink: Please paste "apt-cache policy" + "apt-cache policy unetbootin" + your sources.list to http://paste.debian.net |
| 18:27.17 | s1m | sprink:yep. |
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| 18:27.28 | wols | babilen: you see any difference betwen dd if=isofile.iso of=/dev/sdb and cat debian.iso > /dev/sdx ? |
| 18:27.56 | babilen | wols: Not really |
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| 18:28.31 | babilen | wols: (I just missed the dd example above and just saw the cat one, so I wanted to repair the reference) |
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| 18:33.57 | ZitZ | !pae |
| 18:33.58 | dpkg | Physical Address Extension (PAE) is a x86 processor feature allowing more than 4 gigabytes of physical memory to be used. Linux supports PAE since 2.3.23 (up to 64 GB of memory on 32-bit systems). PAE is supported by the Intel Pentium Pro/II/III/4/4M/D, Xeon, Celeron, Core and Atom; AMD Geode NX, Athlon (K7), Duron, Opteron, Sempron, Turion and Phenom; Transmeta Efficeon; and VIA C7. Ask me about <bigmem>, <686-pae>. |
| 18:35.05 | ZitZ | !bigmem |
| 18:35.06 | dpkg | For i386, -bigmem linux-images support up to 64 GB of RAM on squeeze and lenny systems supporting <PAE>. If you have more than about 3.4 GB of RAM, install and use this to see everything past the sub ~3.4 GB limit (but with additional CPU overhead). Alternatively, if you have a <x86-64> processor, use an -amd64 linux-image instead. See also <686-pae>. |
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| 18:35.21 | wols | ZitZ: /msg dpkg <topic> please |
| 18:35.46 | ZitZ | oh sorry, did they discontinue the regular 686 kernel? |
| 18:36.03 | wols | no they didn't not. it's the standard kernel for i386 |
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| 18:36.34 | ZitZ | well 486 is for older pcs, pae is for anything modern |
| 18:37.35 | miha | ZitZ: i think pentium m notebooks lack pae too |
| 18:37.59 | miha | besides... pae is stupid. if you have 4gb+ ram, you should do 64bit :D |
| 18:38.33 | ZitZ | but you can't do 64bit on a pentium 4 prescott |
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| 18:39.19 | miha | ZitZ: pentium 4 dont have much ram generally? (perhaps some servers do) |
| 18:39.25 | pipeline | ZitZ: actually a lot of prescotts can do 64 bit |
| 18:39.47 | ZitZ | i might have one older than the prescott, not sure, but yes i only have 1gb of ram on that machine |
| 18:39.57 | pipeline | miha, ZitZ : debian multi-arch support is yet unfinished. There is ample reason to want a 32 bit userland. |
| 18:40.02 | simonlnu | you don't need pae then |
| 18:40.16 | simonlnu | pae is slower too |
| 18:40.22 | ZitZ | don't need pae, but don't want 486 either |
| 18:40.37 | simonlnu | there's -686 afaik |
| 18:40.58 | wols | ZitZ: why would a 1GB system use PAE in the first place? sure it's compiled in but what reason is there to use it by the kernel? |
| 18:41.02 | ZitZ | no, when i did apt-get install 2.6.39-1-686 apt chose pae insead for me |
| 18:41.19 | miha | so which debian to use for virtualbox... 32 bit.. 386? :) |
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| 18:41.47 | ZitZ | you're stuck with a slow 486 kernel apparently |
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| 18:42.11 | miha | i mostly use ubuntu, but want to play with debian in virtualbox |
| 18:42.28 | wols | ZitZ: there are tons of things compiled into a kernel I don't need. doesn't mean it slows the kernel down, except that it needs more memory |
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| 18:43.10 | ZitZ | wols: i didn't say anything about pae being slower, that was someone else, i was saying that 486 is slower, which it is |
| 18:43.18 | miha | :) |
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| 18:46.58 | ZitZ | and running a bigmem kernel on a machine with 1gb ram is sub-optimal at the very least |
| 18:47.20 | simonlnu | i said it was slower |
| 18:48.15 | ZitZ | it is, i was only wondering why no 686 option exists |
| 18:48.17 | simonlnu | i have an athlon thunderbird here, and the machine is at 768 MB |
| 18:48.33 | simonlnu | i build my own, so i haven't looked at that in depth |
| 18:48.42 | Wyzard | ZitZ, wols: PAE gets you data execution prevention on processors which support it |
| 18:48.50 | Wyzard | It's not just for using lots of RAM |
| 18:48.55 | wols | Wyzard: true |
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| 18:50.10 | ZitZ | i have been a user of liquorix for a while, but since i was doing an 100% free install, with nouveau, i figured i'd use the official debian kernel since it supposedly is 100% free as well |
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| 18:50.53 | owen1 | I use 'pmount /dev/sdb1 usb' to mount my usb sticks. i try to use similar command for my android tablet. dmesg show me: 'scsi3 : usb-storage 1-1:2.0'. any tips for mounting this device? |
| 18:51.12 | simonlnu | nouveau? it's free whatever distro you're on.... |
| 18:51.22 | simonlnu | on what* |
| 18:52.01 | ZitZ | simonlnu: i understand that, but debian kernels strip all non-free binary blobs, not sure about liquorix |
| 18:52.02 | simonlnu | owen1: does dmesg show you that's the partition to use? |
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| 18:52.36 | ZitZ | and can you mount it with mount as root |
| 18:52.58 | simonlnu | yes, but that's why the firmware packages exist. and nouveau is the driver only. |
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| 18:53.20 | wols | simonlnu: does nvidia need firmware? radeon does but nouveau? |
| 18:53.42 | simonlnu | dunno |
| 18:53.55 | ZitZ | nouveau is free, no firmware, you need to make sure you have libdrm-mesa-experimental to get 3d support which isn't mentioned anywhere |
| 18:54.22 | ZitZ | nvidia no firmware but you need those drivers |
| 18:54.31 | DammitJim | what program should I use on debian to load up my ipod classic? |
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| 18:54.53 | ZitZ | DammitJim: i reccomend gtkpod |
| 18:55.04 | jelly-home | ZitZ: I think I read some hardware required bits for firmware even with nouveau in their channel |
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| 18:55.15 | jelly-home | bits of* firmware |
| 18:56.02 | ZitZ | jelly-home: hmm, i wonder if that is true for all cards, because the debian kernel isn't supposed to have that, and i don't have any non-free or contrib packages installed |
| 18:56.17 | DammitJim | ZitZ, do you have to do anything to the ipod? |
| 18:56.21 | jelly-home | not all |
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| 18:56.52 | jelly-home | ZitZ: and debian kernel isn't new enough to support the hardware upstream nouveau does |
| 18:57.07 | ZitZ | DammitJim: it depends on the device, the most recent version of gtkpod support a lot of the newer devices even 3gs |
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| 18:58.03 | ZitZ | jelly-home: sid has 2.6.39, that's brand spanking new, and i'm using a fairly old card on that machine |
| 18:58.07 | DammitJim | this is a 6th generation ipod :( |
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| 18:58.38 | ZitZ | DammitJim: i was talking about iphones, i think it will support that fine, pretty sure actually |
| 18:58.50 | zfedeb | hi |
| 18:59.00 | zfedeb | it seems i can't paste on gnome-terminal |
| 18:59.01 | zfedeb | :( |
| 18:59.03 | zfedeb | any clue? |
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| 19:00.23 | MrFrood | zfedeb: on't know about gnome-term but a middle click works with most terms |
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| 19:00.58 | zfedeb | i'm on a laptop |
| 19:01.00 | ZitZ | zfedeb: did you try the right mouse button ? |
| 19:01.03 | zfedeb | and if i rightclick--->paste |
| 19:01.07 | zfedeb | it doesn't paste anything |
| 19:01.19 | ZitZ | that's interesting |
| 19:01.35 | zfedeb | this debian setup is running on Parallels, a virtual machine |
| 19:01.41 | zfedeb | but i don't think that it is relevant |
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| 19:02.00 | zfedeb | ok, with an external mouse it pastes |
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| 19:02.03 | DammitJim | ZitZ, thanks dude |
| 19:02.05 | DammitJim | I got it loaded |
| 19:02.08 | zfedeb | but still right click + paste doesn't work |
| 19:02.08 | aguitel_ | i need to install network-manager-gnome in other pc with no internet connection ,how i dodthat ? |
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| 19:02.20 | DammitJim | I now have to see if I can get the music out of the ipod |
| 19:02.26 | wols | aguitel_: you get cd1 IIRC |
| 19:02.36 | wols | aguitel_: why do you need network-manager to get online? |
| 19:02.37 | ZitZ | DammitJim: no problem, glad it works, i think you'll be just fine |
| 19:02.44 | jhutchins_lt | zfedeb: Parallels may be intercepting the keystrokes. |
| 19:02.54 | aguitel_ | wols, to setup wireless card |
| 19:03.08 | wols | aguitel_: that is no reason. /etc/network/interfaces works just fine |
| 19:03.45 | wols | aguitel_: wpa? |
| 19:03.48 | aguitel_ | wols, i know but i like gui |
| 19:03.58 | owen1 | any idea how to mount usb device that uses scsi2 (according to dmseg)? |
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| 19:04.06 | aguitel_ | wols, wep |
| 19:04.39 | *** part/#debian mtphys (~x_x@unaffiliated/metaphys) |
| 19:04.41 | Defusal | VirtualGL and TurboVNC look quite promising btw wols |
| 19:04.44 | wols | then I suggest you use /etc/network/interfaces to get online and afterthat you can install n-m to your hearts content and use that |
| 19:04.46 | Aiwass | I have problems installing grub after installing debian on a computer with windows already installed. the grub detects the other operating system, but gives an error at install. the hdd is raid0 2x200 gb. what can be made? |
| 19:05.09 | wols | !tell Aiwass about errors |
| 19:05.34 | wols | Aiwass: is the kernel on the raid? |
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| 19:06.14 | Aiwass | yes, all is installed without problem on hdd, using netinstall |
| 19:06.30 | Aiwass | a standard install won't work |
| 19:07.11 | Aiwass | when the bootloader must be installer, there are errors, before that everything is ok |
| 19:08.02 | alkisg | I'm trying to migrate my daughter's laptop from ubuntu lucid to debian testing. My problem is that an SDL game called teeworlds is 10 times slower in Debian. The graphics card is an ancient ati. |
| 19:08.02 | alkisg | Here is the output of some commands like lspci, dpkg -l xorg*, xdpyinfo, xvinfo etc: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/slow-ati/ |
| 19:08.02 | alkisg | Also xv doesn't work in debian. Any ideas? |
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| 19:09.50 | wols | alkisg: the important part is most probably glxinfo |
| 19:10.06 | alkisg | wols: ah right let me get that... |
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| 19:10.24 | evilmanu | hi all |
| 19:10.25 | wols | and of course the xorg logs |
| 19:10.31 | jelly-home | alkisg: why did you "nomodeset"? |
| 19:10.34 | alkisg | ok |
| 19:10.59 | alkisg | jelly-home: I used to do nomodeset in ubuntu to get faster fps in the game, while in debian it didn't make any difference if I put it or not |
| 19:11.12 | alkisg | gets the xorg logs and glxinfo output... |
| 19:11.28 | jelly-home | alkisg: free radeon drivers acceleration only works when KMS is enabled. Yeah, show Xorg.0.log |
| 19:11.33 | babilen | Aiwass: It would be quite helpful to see this ominous error -- best paste the output of "os-prober" and "update-grub" to http://paste.debian.net |
| 19:11.59 | StefandeVries | does anyone know how to read a certain amount of bytes using dd? |
| 19:12.18 | wols | babilen: the problem is the installation of grub he says. grub-install. my guess is it's the RAID0 grub doesn't like |
| 19:12.25 | dschoepe | StefandeVries: dd if=.. of=.. count=42 |
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| 19:12.37 | wols | StefandeVries: "count" see manpage |
| 19:12.46 | Aiwass | yes, that's what i heard, i must install grub on a non-raid hdd parition |
| 19:13.00 | babilen | Aiwass: Ok, then show the error you are getting then -- Install grub to both harddrives and try that. |
| 19:13.01 | StefandeVries | I read right over it :\ thank yoy, dschoepe and wols |
| 19:13.02 | jelly-home | StefandeVries: count * bs = bytes |
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| 19:13.24 | babilen | Aiwass: And don't install it to a partition but the actual block device (e.g. /dev/sda) |
| 19:13.41 | Boltsky | any tips for creating a library package? dh_make -l did some of the work, but dpkg-buildpackage fails because everything gets installed to debian/libwhatever-dev instead of debian/tmp |
| 19:13.41 | jelly-home | StefandeVries: don't forget to set bs, else dd's going to try to use the device native block size |
| 19:13.43 | Aiwass | i tried that |
| 19:13.46 | Aiwass | same error |
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| 19:14.15 | evilmanu | how can I don't share home DIR with samba? |
| 19:14.23 | babilen | Aiwass: I don't believe you. You have no error! (proof otherwise on http://paste.debian.net) ;) |
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| 19:14.29 | wols | evilmanu: again? what are you trying to do? |
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| 19:15.10 | evilmanu | I have created 3 share, but in default have home dir, and don0t want to shre it |
| 19:15.21 | wols | evilmanu: is one named "homes"? |
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| 19:15.40 | evilmanu | no, named is as username |
| 19:15.48 | jelly-home | evilmanu: comment out "[homes]" section in your smb.conf \ |
| 19:16.08 | evilmanu | done it, but then cannot acces to other shares |
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| 19:17.16 | valdyn | evilmanu: that does not make sense |
| 19:17.26 | jelly-home | evilmanu: define the other shares properly. |
| 19:17.28 | valdyn | evilmanu: some of your share sections must be broken |
| 19:17.47 | valdyn | evilmanu: theres a config check tool shipping with samba |
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| 19:20.58 | alkisg | wols, jelly-home: I updated the files in http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/slow-ati/ |
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| 19:21.35 | alkisg | wols, jelly-home: oh sorry a mistake please hold 1 minute... |
| 19:21.41 | jelly-home | alkisg: I see ubuntu logs in from-debian/Xorg.0.log |
| 19:21.44 | jelly-home | right |
| 19:22.29 | evilmanu | ok, it's working now, thanks and have nice |
| 19:23.11 | alkisg | wols, jelly-home: fixed :) |
| 19:23.20 | Aiwass | quite hard, as i want to install on this computer |
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| 19:26.33 | alkisg | (the debian xorg.log is without nomodeset, while the ubuntu xorg.log is with nomodeset, which has the best performance) |
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| 19:27.37 | jelly-home | alkisg: I have no idea why [ 22.483] (II) RADEON(0): GPU accel disabled or not working, using shadowfb for KMS |
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| 19:28.15 | alkisg | jelly-home: hmm maybe they dropped support for this ancient ati gpu. :-/ |
| 19:28.44 | wols | alkisg: very znlikely |
| 19:28.46 | alkisg | Btw in ubuntu the game graphics are very fast, but a bit corrupted, while in debian they're very very slow and unplayable, but have fine quality :D |
| 19:28.59 | jelly-home | alkisg: I guess it's possible the driver is broken for your IGP chip at present time |
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| 19:29.22 | alkisg | jelly-home: should I try something from -stable or from -experimental ? |
| 19:29.27 | jelly-home | alkisg: file a bug or try asking in #debian-x (on OFTC) |
| 19:29.38 | alkisg | Thank you very much jelly-home :) |
| 19:30.03 | jelly-home | alkisg: you could try video-radeon/mesa-dri/xserver-xorg-core from experimental |
| 19:30.09 | LinuxGuy2009 | I have another question about my new MyBookLive 1TB NAS drive. I wanted to see if there is a GUI program or something simple to "map" the network drive, for a lack of a better term. So that Rhythmbox or Banshee can play music directly from it? |
| 19:30.12 | alkisg | OK, will do |
| 19:30.39 | jelly-home | alkisg: and 2.6.39, while you're already messing up the system <g> |
| 19:30.49 | alkisg | Thanks a lot for you time |
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| 19:33.55 | thewanderer1 | LinuxGuy2009: if it supports NFS, just mount it |
| 19:34.08 | thewanderer1 | (otherwise, just mount it, heh :P ) |
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| 19:35.42 | Yayap13 | Hello il a des francais ici? |
| 19:36.03 | abdelkhalak | how can I log in automatically without a session manager; i'm using gnome |
| 19:36.08 | jelly-home | alkisg: also try packages in unstable if they're newer than what you have |
| 19:36.16 | ansgar | !fr |
| 19:36.17 | dpkg | Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr. |
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| 19:36.31 | jelly-home | ,versions xserver-xorg-core |
| 19:36.32 | judd | Package xserver-xorg-core on i386 -- lenny: 2:1.4.2-10.lenny3; squeeze: 2:1.7.7-13; wheezy: 2:1.10.1-2; sid: 2:1.10.2-1 |
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| 19:36.45 | jelly-home | ,versions xserver-xorg-video-radeon |
| 19:36.46 | judd | Package xserver-xorg-video-radeon on i386 -- lenny: 1:6.9.0-1+lenny4; squeeze: 1:6.13.1-2+squeeze1; wheezy: 1:6.14.1-1+b1; sid: 1:6.14.2-1 |
| 19:36.46 | thewanderer1 | LinuxGuy2009: of course the manufacturer doesn't say a word about what protocols the networking device supports... good luck mounting that |
| 19:37.17 | alkisg | jelly-home: thanks - will try upgrading those packages first and will ask in #debian-x if upgrades won't help. |
| 19:37.30 | wols | linuxwizard: check for CIFS ans DLNA |
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| 19:38.26 | jelly-home | alkisg: free xorg drivers have tons of regressions these days. I'd try running a clean squeeze, as well. |
| 19:38.37 | alkisg | Gotcha |
| 19:38.49 | jelly-home | I thought it was just video-intel but apparently radeon is similar |
| 19:39.25 | alkisg | Indeed with intel I had to change ubuntu versions on many cases. Will also try squeeze. |
| 19:39.27 | jelly-home | makes me glad I put a nvidia in the machine |
| 19:39.50 | alkisg | Hehe I had an nvidia on my own laptop but it burned out and I had to use a hair dryer to get it working :-/ |
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| 19:43.22 | LinuxGuy2009 | thewanderer1: I know I can access it in nautilus with smb://local-ip/share-name. I also know it has FTP access. Wonder how I would put it in fstab? |
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| 19:45.36 | thewanderer1 | LinuxGuy2009: cifs type, probably... consult the mount manpage (man mount.cifs maybe?) to find out about the options |
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| 19:47.23 | LinuxGuy2009 | thewanderer1: ok thanks |
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| 19:49.15 | LinuxGuy2009 | thewanderer1: I don't know if you will know what Im talking about but there used to be a package in the repos, I cant remember the name of it, it would allow you to type the server ip and select a mount point and it would auto mount at each boot? Do you happen to know what the package was called? It would make things a lot easier for me. |
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| 19:50.50 | thewanderer1 | LinuxGuy2009: not really, I use CIFS like once a year... |
| 19:51.14 | LinuxGuy2009 | thewanderer1: Ok maybe Ill just try fstab then. Thanks. |
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| 19:54.47 | valdyn | LinuxGuy2009: you dont need a special package, just treat it like any fs in fstab |
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| 19:58.37 | Bushmills | LinuxGuy2009: that package, allowing you to type that, is called "vi" |
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| 20:06.46 | mynameistux | hey, I have a bunch of files that are named [randomnonsense]_actualTVshowname_season_X_Episode_x.mkv. I have no idea how to clean the file name all at once, any tips for someone who doesn't know how to script? |
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| 20:08.47 | Bushmills | mynameistux: for an inspiration, try a=randomnonsense_other.text; echo "${a#*_}" |
| 20:09.22 | mynameistux | what does that do? |
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| 20:09.45 | Bushmills | what does its output suggest it does? |
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| 20:10.22 | mynameistux | :O |
| 20:10.37 | mynameistux | that's cool |
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| 20:11.33 | mynameistux | soo, I'm thinking, something with pipe and mv |
| 20:11.41 | Bushmills | no pipe needed |
| 20:11.46 | miha | hmm debian install in virtualbox failed... |
| 20:11.47 | Bushmills | mv is good |
| 20:11.49 | llutz | mynameistux: "rename -n 's/.*_//' *.mkv" |
| 20:12.11 | babilen | mynameistux: also look into "rename" |
| 20:12.21 | babilen | llutz: yup :) |
| 20:12.22 | mynameistux | yeah, I'm reading the man page for rename now |
| 20:12.39 | mynameistux | I'd only ever used mv to rename files before >< |
| 20:13.20 | Grubless | Hi, I am running debian wheezy (amd64) and grub failed with undefined symbol (dualboot with winxp). I am trying to recover with a debian live cd but after mounting and running chroot I get /bin/bash exec format error. Is there some way I can get stuff running so I can reinstall grub2 ? |
| 20:13.29 | *** join/#debian JordiGH (~jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) |
| 20:13.38 | JordiGH | Okay, so the hard drive is now fill with crap from /dev/urandom. |
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| 20:13.42 | JordiGH | How do I setup lvm and encrypt it? |
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| 20:14.22 | tux0 | through the power of emacs! |
| 20:14.30 | mynameistux | NEVAR |
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| 20:17.37 | JordiGH | http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/jakethesnake_09/1234939201891.jpg |
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| 20:18.11 | streuner_ | yeah, a real democrat :-) |
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| 20:20.50 | tux0 | JordiGH http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch07s02.html.en |
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| 20:21.37 | tux0 | JordiGH http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#partman-crypto |
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| 20:22.30 | JordiGH | tux0 <3 |
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| 20:23.29 | JordiGH | Wait, that's d-i. |
| 20:23.36 | JordiGH | This is for an external hard drive. |
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| 20:23.50 | JordiGH | I can't believe no one's ripped out the d-i partitioner to be used separately. It's mad useful. |
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| 20:30.56 | Japeeh | after I try to mount the an usb drive, following error message appears: |
| 20:31.03 | Japeeh | http://pastebin.com/2XjqZpx8 |
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| 20:31.28 | Japeeh | any ideas what I am missing/what's wrong? |
| 20:31.33 | JordiGH | How are you mounting it? |
| 20:31.46 | Japeeh | what do you mean by that? |
| 20:31.58 | JordiGH | pmount, mount, gnome-volume-manager, what options...? |
| 20:32.00 | Japeeh | I just put the usb stick in :D |
| 20:32.02 | JordiGH | i.e. "what did you do"? |
| 20:32.47 | JordiGH | You put the stick in... |
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| 20:32.53 | JordiGH | And then how did you see that error message? |
| 20:32.56 | JordiGH | In a dialogue? |
| 20:33.04 | Japeeh | yes in a dialogue |
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| 20:33.14 | Japeeh | and I can't mount it |
| 20:33.14 | JordiGH | And you're using gnome? |
| 20:33.24 | Japeeh | yes I am pretty sure it's gnome 2 |
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| 20:34.33 | thewanderer1 | Japeeh: and did you read the dmesg | tail as the program suggested? |
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| 20:35.49 | Japeeh | err I didn't know what that meant so I didn't do anything |
| 20:35.54 | Japeeh | I'll try and look at it |
| 20:37.18 | JordiGH | Do you know what that means now? |
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| 20:37.46 | sprink | does anyone know what unetbootin does at the "installing syslinux" step? |
| 20:37.47 | Japeeh | tewanderer1 - it gives me following: http://pastebin.com/3zadzMg5 |
| 20:37.56 | Japeeh | JordiGH: No... |
| 20:37.56 | sprink | because it freezes their every single time |
| 20:38.20 | JordiGH | Japeeh: Open a terminal and type "dmesg | tail" in it. |
| 20:38.30 | Japeeh | that's what I did |
| 20:38.41 | Japeeh | I don't know what it does |
| 20:38.51 | JordiGH | Japeeh: your usb pen drive doesn't have a partition and Linux thinks it's a CD ROM instead. |
| 20:39.22 | Japeeh | now that's weird |
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| 20:39.39 | JordiGH | What partition is it supposed to have? |
| 20:39.46 | JordiGH | I mean, what type of filesystem? |
| 20:39.46 | Japeeh | I tried to format it again as FAT but it gave me the same error |
| 20:39.53 | Japeeh | it's FAT |
| 20:40.05 | JordiGH | How did you partition it? |
| 20:40.38 | thewanderer1 | I wonder if it's possible to mount that using mount command... think I've seen such flawed behaviour in GNOME before |
| 20:40.41 | Japeeh | using the err partition tool that comes with debian |
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| 20:41.27 | JordiGH | :-( |
| 20:41.33 | JordiGH | Many partition tools come with Debian. |
| 20:41.34 | JordiGH | gparted? |
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| 20:41.40 | Japeeh | no not gparted |
| 20:41.44 | JordiGH | Does it say 'about' in a help menu or something? |
| 20:41.49 | Japeeh | I don't know what it's called in English |
| 20:42.21 | JordiGH | Program names rarely or never change across languages. |
| 20:42.35 | Japeeh | ah yes the gnome disk utility |
| 20:42.47 | JordiGH | gparted. |
| 20:43.06 | Japeeh | yes maybe I should try that instead |
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| 20:45.21 | JordiGH | I'm so tempted to run d-i just to do the encrypted partition on the external hard drive... |
| 20:45.29 | JordiGH | LVM is a fucking black art. |
| 20:46.27 | JordiGH | "debuntu.org" |
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| 20:46.29 | JordiGH | weeps |
| 20:47.20 | JordiGH | What was it about TrueCrypt that couldn't make it into Debian? |
| 20:47.37 | miha | is..lvm...safe? :) |
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| 20:47.54 | fbs | miha: what is safe ? |
| 20:48.08 | frostschutz | miha: depends on how you use it. pvmove can be quite dangerous... |
| 20:48.12 | nkuttler | JordiGH: the license iirc |
| 20:48.19 | JordiGH | I know, what part? |
| 20:48.21 | miha | fbs: http://xkcd.com/538/ |
| 20:49.09 | fbs | miha: lvm != encryption |
| 20:49.26 | miha | fbs: i just saw encrypted lvm option |
| 20:49.29 | miha | in installer :) |
| 20:49.34 | JordiGH | But I want the encrypted setup on my external hard drive like what d-i does. |
| 20:49.36 | fbs | that is lvm + dmcrypt |
| 20:49.45 | miha | fbs: is that..safe? :) |
| 20:50.05 | JordiGH | Really, whatever cryptonerds think, there's no reason to not encrypt. |
| 20:50.14 | babilen | +1 |
| 20:50.37 | fbs | miha: depends on how you use it |
| 20:51.39 | miha | fbs: i generated 40 chars with securerandom for the password :) |
| 20:51.58 | fbs | can you remember such a password ? |
| 20:52.07 | JordiGH | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.12 | fbs | :P |
| 20:52.14 | nkuttler | he has a post-it on his display |
| 20:52.23 | miha | fbs: do i need to remember it? :) i just play with virtualbox image |
| 20:52.37 | fbs | oh |
| 20:52.40 | JordiGH | fbs: You store it in muscle memory. |
| 20:52.49 | JordiGH | Honestly, I don't know my password. I can't sing it. |
| 20:52.54 | miha | JordiGH: !! |
| 20:53.00 | fbs | i know all of them :P |
| 20:53.01 | JordiGH | My fingers know where it is. |
| 20:53.12 | JordiGH | It's in the cerebellum, not the cerebrum. |
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| 20:59.03 | ampharos | I have an old 3D Rage Pro card, and I'm interested in making it use higher resolutions. X said it can handle up to 1600x1200, and I think it's capable of widescreen (Slax attempted it with my CRT, it works but aspect ratio was wonky) |
| 20:59.04 | *** join/#debian rickbol (~rickbol@cpe-024-074-072-133.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 20:59.07 | ampharos | Is this a good idea? |
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| 20:59.23 | ampharos | I don't do 3D in Linux, so would I get decent performance out of it? |
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| 20:59.53 | miha | hmmm looks like i'm noob.. i need to actual enter this every boot? :) |
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| 21:00.02 | miha | reconsideres :D |
| 21:00.17 | flamingspinach | I'm having trouble getting automount to work. I set everything up according to the wiki (with UUIDs) but automount is not mounting my external disk - any ideas for what to look for? |
| 21:00.27 | flamingspinach | er, s/automount/autofs/ |
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| 21:01.45 | kingsley | What typically configures the IP routing table during the boot process? |
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| 21:10.40 | Wyzard | kingsley: When an interface is assigned an IP address, the kernel creates a route for that network (based on the IP and netmask) through the interface |
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| 21:11.13 | Wyzard | kingsley: A default route typically comes from either a DHCP server, or a "gateway" statement in /etc/network/interfaces when not using DHCP |
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| 21:16.28 | JamezQ1 | test? |
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| 21:17.45 | Wyzard | JordiGH: LVM isn't that bad... take your plaintext device and run pvcreate on it, then use vgcreate to make a volume group containing that PV, then make some volumes with lvcreate |
| 21:18.06 | Wyzard | hardly a black art |
| 21:19.39 | JordiGH | So.... |
| 21:19.41 | JordiGH | pvcreate |
| 21:19.48 | JordiGH | command not found |
| 21:19.50 | JordiGH | wat do |
| 21:19.54 | Wyzard | apt-get install lvm2 |
| 21:20.01 | Wyzard | You can't very well use LVM if you don't have it installed |
| 21:20.01 | *** join/#debian Jemt (~Jemt@0x5550950d.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 21:20.10 | JordiGH | It's installed. |
| 21:20.12 | JordiGH | so... |
| 21:20.14 | JordiGH | do it as root |
| 21:20.16 | JordiGH | amirite |
| 21:20.23 | Wyzard | then you should have a /sbin/pvcreate |
| 21:20.33 | Wyzard | Yes, you need to be root to set up LVM (just like with plain disk partitioning) |
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| 21:20.58 | JordiGH | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:20.59 | JordiGH | wat do nao |
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| 21:21.08 | JordiGH | Oh, as root. |
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| 21:21.26 | kingsley | Wyzard: OK, that's more or less consistent with what I'm seeing. |
| 21:21.57 | JordiGH | jordi@Iris:~$ sudo /sbin/vgcreate /dev/sdb |
| 21:21.58 | JordiGH | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:22.03 | JordiGH | /dev/sdb isn't a physical volume path? |
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| 21:22.17 | Wyzard | It is after you've run pvcreate on it |
| 21:22.21 | JordiGH | I just did. |
| 21:22.27 | JordiGH | See? |
| 21:22.28 | JordiGH | Dark art. |
| 21:22.37 | kingsley | Wyzard: May I please have the benefit of your informed thoughts on how to diagnose why a new bridge would empty the IP routing table? |
| 21:22.40 | Wyzard | oops, I see, you forgot to give a VG name |
| 21:22.50 | Wyzard | vgcreate vg_foo /dev/sdb |
| 21:22.50 | JordiGH | Oh, I did, did I now? |
| 21:23.00 | JordiGH | I was born knowing this. I just kinda forgot this time. Silly me. |
| 21:23.04 | Wyzard | A volume group has a name, and so do LVs within it |
| 21:23.15 | Wyzard | and the devices are /dev/<vg_name>/<lv_name> |
| 21:24.01 | Wyzard | JordiGH: I was assuming you'd read a documentation on LVM already, sorry |
| 21:24.15 | Wyzard | kingsley: What's in your /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 21:24.18 | JordiGH | Now it's time to figure out what you meant with "then make some volumes with lvcreate" |
| 21:24.33 | JordiGH | Stripes? |
| 21:24.39 | JordiGH | I can give stripes to a volume? |
| 21:24.39 | Wyzard | lvcreate --name foo --size 10G vg_test |
| 21:24.44 | JordiGH | Can I give it polka dots instead? |
| 21:24.49 | Wyzard | LVM can do its own sort of raid0 striping |
| 21:25.06 | Wyzard | if you have PVs set up on multiple disks, which in this case you don't, so ignore the striping stuff |
| 21:25.30 | JordiGH | What's --name foo? |
| 21:25.38 | Wyzard | the name for the LV |
| 21:25.40 | JordiGH | I just created a volume group. |
| 21:25.43 | Wyzard | Its device node will be /dev/vg_foo/foo |
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| 21:26.00 | JordiGH | How do I tell lvcreate to create it in the volume group I just defined? |
| 21:26.18 | Wyzard | The volume group name is a command-line argument to lvcreate |
| 21:26.32 | JordiGH | What's vg_test? |
| 21:26.35 | JordiGH | The volume group name? |
| 21:26.40 | Wyzard | yeah |
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| 21:26.49 | Wyzard | sorry, I was inconsistent with my earlier example where I called it vg_foo |
| 21:26.55 | JordiGH | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:27.03 | Wyzard | That's for lvcreate |
| 21:27.05 | Wyzard | Which step are you on now? |
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| 21:27.25 | JordiGH | Oh, lvcreate, sorry. |
| 21:27.32 | JordiGH | How do I tell it to use all available space? |
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| 21:28.01 | Wyzard | Run "vgdisplay" and look at the "free PE" line |
| 21:28.21 | Wyzard | LVM divides each PV into chunks called physical extents (PE) -- 4MB by default |
| 21:28.30 | Wyzard | and LVMs are made from groups of PEs |
| 21:29.02 | JordiGH | And you're saying this is totally not a black art, right? |
| 21:29.04 | Wyzard | If you want the LV to fill all the available space, you use vgdisplay to see how many PEs the volume group has free, and give that number to --extents, instead of --size, when running lvcreate |
| 21:29.14 | JordiGH | Can we compromise on grey art? |
| 21:29.22 | Wyzard | It's well-documented |
| 21:29.31 | JordiGH | O RLY |
| 21:29.36 | JordiGH | You mean in the manpages? |
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| 21:29.41 | Wyzard | I may be biased because I've been using it for years |
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| 21:29.55 | Wyzard | but I don't remember having much trouble learning about it initially |
| 21:30.01 | Wyzard | There should be more docs on the web, besides the manpages |
| 21:30.26 | JordiGH | Ah, oral tradition. |
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| 21:31.18 | Wyzard | Anyway, when using lvcreate, you can specify the size either with --size and a number of megabytes/gigabytes/etc, or with --extents and a number of PEs |
| 21:31.21 | JordiGH | Alrighty! |
| 21:31.25 | JordiGH | Now I have a volum. |
| 21:31.31 | JordiGH | Now it needs a filesystem, right? |
| 21:31.36 | JordiGH | Wait, do I encrypt first? |
| 21:32.10 | Wyzard | yes, you need to set up the encryption first |
| 21:32.21 | JordiGH | Soo.... |
| 21:32.24 | JordiGH | Uhm. |
| 21:32.38 | Wyzard | so you'll probably want to remove the VG you just created |
| 21:32.45 | JordiGH | uh. |
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| 21:33.38 | Wyzard | The way it works is you set up dm-crypt on something, and when the encrypted volume is "unlocked", you get a device file in /dev/mapper that represents the plaintext |
| 21:33.43 | Wyzard | and you use that as the PV |
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| 21:33.58 | JordiGH | Right, so why do I want to remove the volume group? |
| 21:34.06 | thewanderer1 | is there a drop-in (zero config) replacement for apt-cacher-ng that doesn't hang? |
| 21:34.06 | kingsley | Wyzard: Thanks for asking (what's in /etc/network/interfaces). |
| 21:34.15 | Wyzard | because it's (presumably) on the wrong physical volume |
| 21:34.23 | valdyn | oops |
| 21:34.29 | Wyzard | You mentioned /dev/sdb |
| 21:34.30 | jelly-home | thewanderer1: I thought apt-cacher-ng WAS the replacement |
| 21:34.33 | valdyn | vg are not on a volume |
| 21:34.35 | kingsley | Wyzard: I posted its contents at http://pastebin.com/VcUWmwMU |
| 21:34.39 | JordiGH | Wyzard: Yeah, where should it be instead? |
| 21:34.49 | thewanderer1 | jelly-home: every single install hangs for me sometimes |
| 21:34.50 | Wyzard | /dev/mapper/plaintext or something like that |
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| 21:34.58 | JordiGH | But there isn't a mapper yet... |
| 21:35.07 | Wyzard | right, so you need to set that up first |
| 21:35.21 | Wyzard | For now, it sounds like you have an unencrypted LVM setup on /dev/sdb |
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| 21:35.25 | JordiGH | Okay, so now I do the cryptsetup steps? |
| 21:35.30 | JordiGH | Yeah, I think so. |
| 21:35.51 | JordiGH | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:36.02 | Wyzard | cryptsetup doesn't encrypt your existing data in-place, though |
| 21:36.09 | JordiGH | There is no existing data. |
| 21:36.20 | JordiGH | There were only a few Windows viruses I don't need. |
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| 21:36.45 | Wyzard | There's the LVM metadata you just created |
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| 21:37.26 | Wyzard | cryptsetup won't take that and replace it with an encrypted version of itself |
| 21:37.34 | JordiGH | Uhhhhhhhh... |
| 21:37.39 | Wyzard | it'll just treat it as ciphertext |
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| 21:38.49 | Wyzard | so you want to remove the LVM stuff that you just created -- sorry I didn't notice the error earlier and warn you beforehand -- then do cryptsetup, then set up LVM on that |
| 21:38.55 | JordiGH | So you're saying the LVM I did is worthless? |
| 21:39.06 | JordiGH | :-/ |
| 21:39.06 | Wyzard | yes, basically |
| 21:39.07 | Wyzard | sorry |
| 21:39.15 | JordiGH | Can you ssh into my machine? |
| 21:39.17 | Wyzard | It only took a minute to do; it's no big deal |
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| 21:39.26 | JordiGH | I have no idea what I'm doing. |
| 21:39.52 | Wyzard | kingsley: You don't specify netmask, broadcast, gateway, etc. when you're using DHCP |
| 21:40.03 | Wyzard | kingsley: Did you mean "inet static" on the br0 line, instead of "inet dhcp" ? |
| 21:40.22 | Wyzard | JordiGH: I'm not going to log in and do it for you -- and you shouldn't trust random strangers on the Internet with root on your machine to set up a security system anyway |
| 21:40.23 | JordiGH | Wyzard: This dark art got way darker. |
| 21:40.36 | JordiGH | eh, I trust random strangers from #debian. |
| 21:40.36 | valdyn | JordiGH: lvm isnt hard |
| 21:40.42 | JordiGH | valdyn: O RLY. |
| 21:41.04 | JordiGH | valdyn: Wyzard ^ just said that and messed it up. |
| 21:41.07 | valdyn | JordiGH: yea, take a few minutes to read |
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| 21:41.12 | JordiGH | Read what? |
| 21:41.49 | valdyn | JordiGH: maybe http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_lvm |
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| 21:42.03 | Wyzard | JordiGH: Anyway, you should "vgremove <vg_name>" to get rid of that VG, then "pvremove /dev/sdb" |
| 21:42.24 | valdyn | JordiGH: i prefer ibm developer works stuff when theres something about whatever topic |
| 21:42.31 | Wyzard | I'm not sure if LVM lets you delete a VG that has volumes in it -- if it complains that you can't, "lvremove <vg_name>/<lv_name>" first |
| 21:42.34 | JordiGH | I think it'll be easier if I just boot d-i and tell it to encrypt this volume. |
| 21:42.55 | jelly-home | valdyn: is there one about cryptsetup |
| 21:43.00 | JordiGH | I'll do that instead. |
| 21:43.08 | Wyzard | JordiGH: I think it'll be easier if you listen and learn instead of complaning that this isn't all handed to you on a silver platter |
| 21:43.14 | valdyn | jelly-home: no idea i havent googled |
| 21:43.18 | JordiGH | It is handed on a silver platter. |
| 21:43.28 | JordiGH | I'm not reading manpages and the web and whatever else to accomplish this one task. |
| 21:43.37 | JordiGH | It's handed on a silver platter by d-i, like it should be. |
| 21:43.38 | Wyzard | I'm giving you step-by-step directions |
| 21:43.43 | Wyzard | but you'd rather complain than follow them |
| 21:43.48 | Wyzard | Suit yourself, use D-I |
| 21:44.01 | JordiGH | It's a pity no one's taken the d-i partitoiner out of d-i, but that's a smaller inconvenience than having to learn what all these stupid acronyms means. |
| 21:44.03 | JordiGH | mean. |
| 21:44.12 | JordiGH | Your step-by-step directions are wrong. |
| 21:44.22 | JordiGH | I can't use them. |
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| 21:44.30 | miha | hmmm why there's no option in install not to setup apache and rest? :) |
| 21:44.58 | JordiGH | Wyzard: I appreciate the effort. It's not your fault this stuff is hard. |
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| 21:45.12 | jelly-home | miha: there is: don't choose anything (but the base system) in the task selection. |
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| 21:45.48 | jelly-home | miha: install and configure your packages later, when you need them |
| 21:46.07 | Wyzard | JordiGH: It's not that hard if you stop telling yourself that nothing makes sense |
| 21:46.31 | Wyzard | JordiGH: You know how to use a Debian system, install packages, partition disks, etc. -- once upon a time, all that looked hard too |
| 21:46.46 | JordiGH | Wyzard: Yeah, elliptic curves aren't hard either if you spend a few years learning their basics. |
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| 21:46.57 | miha | jelly-home: hmm, i'd just like gnome and stuff.. i guess i can do later too :) |
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| 21:47.06 | kingsley | Wyzard: Thanks for looking and sharing your thoughts. I didn't realize that you don't specify netmask, broadcast, gateway, etc. with dhcp. |
| 21:47.27 | jelly-home | miha: I don't think the desktop task installs apache. |
| 21:47.33 | kingsley | Wyzard: I actually did intend to use "inet dhcp". |
| 21:47.40 | Wyzard | JordiGH: Now you're just being sarcastic, so I'm not going to get into a pointless debate |
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| 21:48.05 | jelly-home | miha: /msg dpkg tasksel |
| 21:48.05 | miha | jelly-home: netinstall offered me.. then i installed from 'live cd' .. and it installed everything (at least upgrade icon said upgrade for apache and bind is there) |
| 21:48.09 | valdyn | jelly-home: nothing about cryptsetup or luks but the lvm article looks neat |
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| 21:48.58 | Wyzard | kingsley: even though you were using "inet static" before you set up the bridge? |
| 21:49.15 | Wyzard | kingsley: Anyway, when using DHCP, you don't specify all those other parameters, because the DHCP server provides them |
| 21:49.26 | jelly-home | miha: oh! I have no idea what installing from livecd does, I was thinking about the normal installer ("d-i") |
| 21:49.28 | Wyzard | The only line you should need under the "iface br0" line is "bridge_ports eth0" |
| 21:49.59 | jelly-home | miha: which is what "netinst" is... so your comment makes me confused |
| 21:50.19 | miha | jelly-home: i tried netinst first.. and it failed with packages (probably my silly wlan ) :) |
| 21:50.38 | miha | should i go back to that? :) |
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| 21:51.08 | jelly-home | miha: well, if you already have an installed system, you can just remove stuff you don't need |
| 21:51.28 | miha | ahh now in expert mode there are more questions :D |
| 21:51.30 | miha | cool |
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| 21:52.21 | thewanderer1 | oh, now I'm getting hash sum mismatches with apt-cacher-ng :P |
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| 21:52.43 | Wyzard | thewanderer1: FWIW, I use approx |
| 21:52.45 | TTT | hi, this probably was asked 101 times, but I need to transfer my debian system from one drive to another. Do I just do cp -Ra /mnt_src/* /mnt_dest; and then edit fstab files and install grub? Am I forgetting anything? |
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| 21:53.39 | jelly-home | miha: there is also an unofficial installer image with firmware (it may or may not help make your wireless work at installer time) |
| 21:53.42 | thewanderer1 | Wyzard: does it hang or produce corrupt files? |
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| 21:53.45 | jelly-home | !firmware image |
| 21:53.46 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Squeeze are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install debian>. http://deb.li/3tGse |
| 21:53.52 | sternocera | What kernel version does lenny ship with? |
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| 21:53.57 | Wyzard | TTT: That sounds about right |
| 21:54.07 | Wyzard | TTT: -a implies -R so you don't need both (when running cp) |
| 21:54.12 | jelly-home | sternocera: 2.6.26 |
| 21:54.14 | Wyzard | thewanderer1: No, it works fine |
| 21:54.15 | TTT | Wyzard, thanks, just wanted to be sure :) |
| 21:54.22 | thewanderer1 | Wyzard: thanks, I'll try it |
| 21:54.26 | sternocera | jelly-home: Cool, thanks. |
| 21:54.42 | Wyzard | TTT: If you're using multiple partitions (like a separate /home) you'll need to set up the appropriate mountpoints in the destination before you copy |
| 21:54.51 | TTT | nah, just one root |
| 21:54.59 | TTT | got himself an SSD |
| 21:54.59 | Wyzard | TTT: and make sure you don't try to copy virtual filesystems like /proc or /sys |
| 21:55.11 | thewanderer1 | TTT: and what exactly prevents you from copying whole filesystems? |
| 21:55.12 | TTT | i'll boot from USB |
| 21:55.27 | Wyzard | TTT: What filesystem will you be using on the SSD? |
| 21:55.32 | TTT | ext3 |
| 21:55.39 | Wyzard | Consider using ext4 instead |
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| 21:56.03 | TTT | I did, but I'd like to be able to access it from windows, and I can do that with ext3, but not ext4 |
| 21:56.06 | kingsley | Wyzard: Yes, it's true. Before the bridge, the host of eth0 and the dhcp server had it's private IP address assigned statically in /etc/network/interfaces. However, I hope dhcp will assign IP addresses to all hosts on the new bridge, particularly a new virtual machine running on the same host as eth0, dhcp's server and the new bridge. |
| 21:56.13 | TTT | (dual boot) |
| 21:56.21 | thewanderer1 | TTT: so make a FAT partition for data exchange |
| 21:56.48 | TTT | thewanderer1, yes, but that means rebooting every time I forgot to copy something to that data exchange partition |
| 21:56.49 | Wyzard | ext4's delayed allocation helps to reduce the amount of writes on the SSD, which is good for prolonging its life |
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| 21:57.04 | Wyzard | and ext4 can be used without a journal, which is also good on an SSD |
| 21:57.17 | Wyzard | (ext3 can't be used without a journal, because that'd just be ext2) |
| 21:58.03 | Japeeh | It turned out my usb drives weren't working because of the /etc/fstab file, I had installed through usb and apparently it wasn't faulty |
| 21:58.06 | thewanderer1 | the journal is not that bad really when you mount tmpfs over some write-intensive places like /var/log and /tmp |
| 21:58.21 | Japeeh | I wiped it out and usb started working again |
| 21:58.33 | JordiGH | Alright, let's see what d-i can do... |
| 21:58.35 | JordiGH | ttyl |
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| 21:59.12 | kingsley | Wyzard: I'll look into configing dnsmask to assign netmask, broadcast, gateway, etc, as part of its dhcp functionality, and then bring my net connection down and back up later, when we're not chatting. |
| 21:59.48 | TTT | Wyzard, thans, i'll think about it |
| 22:00.00 | TTT | gotta reboot, bye |
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| 22:03.01 | Wyzard | kingsley: You shouldn't need to configure dnsmasq specially to serve netmask and broadcast addresses -- those are done automatically |
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| 22:03.47 | Wyzard | kingsley: To have it serve a gateway address, use "dhcp-option=option:router,192.168.0.1" in dnsmasq.conf (substitute the appropriate IP address, of course) |
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| 22:05.08 | kingsley | Wyzard: Automatically configuring netmask and broadcast addresses would be convenient. |
| 22:05.17 | Wyzard | kingsley: You said "the host of eth0 and the dhcp server" had its address assigned statically -- do you mean that the machine where you're configuring the bridge is the one that's running dnsmasq? |
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| 22:05.45 | kingsley | Wyzard: I find myself wondering where dnsmasq would get them from. |
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| 22:07.02 | Wyzard | If the addresses it's assigning (specified by the dhcp-range statement) match the IP and netmask of one of the machine's own interfaces, it uses the netmask and broadcast address from that interface, I think |
| 22:07.19 | kingsley | Wyzard: Yes, the machine I'm configuring the bridge on is also running dnsmasq. |
| 22:07.30 | Wyzard | then you still need to use a static IP |
| 22:07.41 | Wyzard | The machine running the DHCP server can't use DHCP to assign an address to itself |
| 22:08.17 | Wyzard | dnsmasq needs to see that static configuration to know what netmask and broacast address it should give to others |
| 22:08.33 | Wyzard | You can use DHCP in the VMs that will be connected to the bridge, though |
| 22:09.45 | miha | hmm i usually use ubuntu... why virtualbox guest additions dont run in debian inside virtualbox? :) |
| 22:09.54 | miha | i run but nothing happens |
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| 22:16.04 | kingsley | Wyzard: Oh. Do you happen to know if my understanding correct that the static configuration in /etc/network/interfaces is used by dnsmasq's dhcp server to assign a netmask and broacast address to its own host, and that these can not be specified in dnsmasq's configuration file as a function of the host's mac address? |
| 22:17.09 | Wyzard | That statement doesn't make sense -- netmask and broadcast address are never a function of a host's MAC address |
| 22:17.11 | kingsley | s/correct/is correct/ |
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| 22:17.34 | Wyzard | dnsmasq doesn't look at /etc/network/interfaces, it looks at the actual interface (eth0, br0, whatever) |
| 22:17.47 | Wyzard | but that interface has been previously configured (by ifup) based on /etc/network/interfaces |
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| 22:19.09 | PCChris_ | ok, so my partition table is screwed up. What would be the best way to preserve all my data and fix/recreate the partition table? |
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| 22:21.03 | Wyzard | If you have a big enough spare drive, you could make a byte-for-byte copy to restore in case things get screwed up further |
| 22:21.14 | Wyzard | but you have to know where the partitions are in order to mount the filesystems and access any files |
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| 22:21.49 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, yeah...that should be possible. Can I just dd it or should I use something like Clonezilla which I dl'ed and burned? |
| 22:21.52 | AndMyAxe_ | I would make a clonezilla clone |
| 22:22.02 | AndMyAxe_ | for compression's sake |
| 22:22.06 | Wyzard | I'm not familiar with Clonezilla so I can't answer that |
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| 22:22.13 | PCChris_ | hmmmm |
| 22:22.21 | AndMyAxe_ | its really easy, trust me |
| 22:22.37 | PCChris_ | AndMyAxe_, I have it up right now |
| 22:22.42 | kingsley | Wyzard: I may owe you an apology for suggeting that netmask and broadcast address could be a "function" of a host's MAC address. Perhaps I should have suggested that dnsmasq's dhcp server might look up incoming mac addresses in it's configuration file, and if it found the host's, it would assign the desired netmask and broadcast address to the host. |
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| 22:24.15 | AndMyAxe_ | also PCChris_, a thought. sfdisk might be of some help to you |
| 22:24.16 | Wyzard | kingsley: You can use /etc/ethers and /etc/hosts together to assign certain hosts specific IP addresses based on MAC address -- use dnsmasq's "expand-hosts" and "read-ethers" directives for that |
| 22:24.41 | PCChris_ | AndMyAxe_, I saw that though I am not very familiar with its usage |
| 22:25.25 | Wyzard | kingsley: Netmask and broadcast address aren't directly controlled by that, but they're implied: whatever address it gives the host, it'll also give it the appropriate corresponding netmask and broadcast address |
| 22:25.39 | AndMyAxe_ | PCChris_, nor am i, sorry. also maybe look at testdisk? |
| 22:26.05 | Wyzard | kingsley: I don't think you can specify netmask and broadcast on a per-host basis based on MAC address (nor do I see why you'd want to) |
| 22:26.11 | PCChris_ | AndMyAxe_, came across that as well :D |
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| 22:26.40 | PCChris_ | AndMyAxe_, I'm almost thinking it'd be easiest to backup all the data, wipe the disk, recreate partitions, and restore |
| 22:27.30 | kingsley | Wyzard: I've enjoyed our intellectual chat. Thank you for sharing your cordial and informed point of view. At the moment, I need to go, but I'll pursue your clever advice. |
| 22:27.44 | Wyzard | PCChris: What would you back up, if you have no partitions to mount? |
| 22:28.16 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, I can mount them |
| 22:28.19 | AndMyAxe_ | PCChris_, it may be, but if you do make a backup, you might as well at least attempt to recover the partition table with testdisk |
| 22:28.28 | Wyzard | then what's wrong with the partition table? |
| 22:28.32 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, partman doesn't detect all of them, and Win7 doesn't either |
| 22:28.50 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, correction: partman doesn't detect ANY of them |
| 22:29.19 | Wyzard | Do they show up in /dev, e.g. /dev/sda1 or whatever? |
| 22:30.03 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, they show up with fdisk, sfdisk, parted, as well as in the /dev directory |
| 22:30.36 | Wyzard | doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with them, then |
| 22:30.46 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, AndMyAxe_, I do get a warning with fdisk saying "Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary" |
| 22:31.01 | Wyzard | That's harmless; cylinders have been an irrelevant fiction for years |
| 22:31.14 | Wyzard | Old OSes might get confused by that, but not modern ones |
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| 22:31.49 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, and Win7 shows a different partition layout than fdisk |
| 22:32.01 | Wyzard | In fact, on current AF drives, following cylinder boundaries is in appropriate and leads to poor performance -- you want to follow 4k boundaries instead |
| 22:32.29 | Wyzard | hmm, it could be that the CHS and LBA numbers don't match |
| 22:32.47 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, how do I check this? |
| 22:32.48 | Wyzard | though I'd be surprised if Win7 followed the CHS numbers |
| 22:33.48 | Arrowmaster | well its not like CHS numbers have actually ment anything for the last 15 years |
| 22:33.54 | Wyzard | I'm not sure how to view the CHS and LBA numbers separately, actually |
| 22:34.01 | Wyzard | If anything can do it, sfdisk probably can |
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| 22:34.33 | Arrowmaster | imho its best to just drop the old msdos partition format and use gpt |
| 22:34.47 | Wyzard | can't do that on the boot drive if the machine doesn't use EFI |
| 22:34.53 | PCChris_ | why would partman not see any partitions? |
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| 22:35.14 | Wyzard | That does seem strange |
| 22:35.38 | Wyzard | A partition table isn't exactly a complicated format with lots of room for error -- it's just two sets of starting and ending numbers, one in LBA format and one in CHS |
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| 22:36.32 | PCChris_ | currently my machine is unbootable (except from Live CDs) as I messed up something with the MBR I think...I would like to just get Debian on here and setup GRUB |
| 22:36.57 | Wyzard | Did you change something related to the partition table recently? |
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| 22:37.41 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, it's been messed up for a while but it had something to do with getting rid of ext4 partitions from a Fedora install from inside Win7 I believe |
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| 22:40.53 | Wyzard | If your run fdisk and switch to displaying sectors (type "u" once), do the partitions look right? |
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| 22:42.37 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, yeah...I don get a complaint from parted though |
| 22:43.00 | Wyzard | It won't show the warning about the cylinder boundary if it's not showing cylinders anyway |
| 22:43.11 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, Error: Can't have a partition outside the disk! |
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| 22:43.17 | flo` | hi |
| 22:43.26 | Wyzard | hmm, what gave you that message? |
| 22:43.31 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, parted |
| 22:43.41 | flo` | with the next linux kernel number being 3.0, will the old linux-image-2.6-packages still work? |
| 22:43.44 | Wyzard | just displaying the partition table, or did you try to change something? |
| 22:43.56 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, just trying to print the partitions from it |
| 22:43.57 | flo` | or must i actively update to linux-image-3.0? |
| 22:44.03 | Wyzard | flo`: They'll become transitional packages that depend on new packages without the 2.6 in the name |
| 22:44.09 | Wyzard | e.g. linux-image-amd64 |
| 22:44.20 | Wyzard | and those will be updated to depend on 3.0 |
| 22:44.37 | flo` | so it doesn't require me to actively do something? |
| 22:44.39 | flo` | cool :) |
| 22:45.19 | Wyzard | PCChris: Can you pastebin what parted shows? |
| 22:45.29 | Wyzard | PCChris: and what fdisk shows when in sector mode? |
| 22:46.14 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, uhhhh I can type it up |
| 22:46.32 | Wyzard | Don't bother if it's not easy to reproduce |
| 22:46.42 | Wyzard | but look at the partition boundaries and see if any of them are actually past the end of the disk |
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| 22:48.12 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, I was checking that and none of them are.... |
| 22:48.53 | Wyzard | strange that you get that message, then |
| 22:49.00 | Wyzard | How about in cylinder mode? |
| 22:49.26 | thewanderer1 | I've upgraded Lenny to Squeeze and now suPHP is not handling php files, despite being enabled as an Apache module, any hints? |
| 22:49.46 | thewanderer1 | the webserver just sends raw file content |
| 22:50.28 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, don't see any problems there either |
| 22:50.49 | thewanderer1 | also, there are no entries in suphp.log |
| 22:51.44 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, wait I found a problem |
| 22:52.14 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, my extended partition goes "outside" the disk |
| 22:52.40 | Wyzard | In sector mode, or CHS mode, or both? |
| 22:52.46 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, both |
| 22:52.49 | Wyzard | interesting |
| 22:52.52 | Wyzard | I wonder how that happened |
| 22:53.50 | Wyzard | Do any logical partitions within the extended partition actually use that nonexistent region? |
| 22:53.58 | PCChris_ | nope |
| 22:54.24 | Wyzard | then you should be able to just recreate the extended partition with a proper size |
| 22:54.35 | Wyzard | Write down the start and end addresses of the extended partition and all the logical partitions within it |
| 22:55.06 | Wyzard | then delete and recreate them, with a sane end address for the extended partition, but everything else the same |
| 22:55.15 | PCChris_ | should I be using sectors? |
| 22:55.20 | Wyzard | yes |
| 22:55.35 | Wyzard | As long as the start/end numbers are all the same, it shouldn't affect the contents of the partitions |
| 22:56.22 | Wyzard | Logical partitions within an extended partition are represented by a linked list, though, so if you enter different numbers you may actually overwrite data within a logical partition |
| 22:57.20 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, ok...I think I shall see if I can backup stuff first before accidentally destroying anything |
| 22:57.24 | Wyzard | good idea |
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| 22:59.55 | nsadmin | very good idea |
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| 23:00.12 | nsadmin | you avoid the point and laugh factor by doing that |
| 23:00.53 | PCChris_ | nsadmin, indeed |
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| 23:03.04 | nsadmin | and when you don't care about that (after all, why should you? other people's opinions of you are none of your business), you save yourself at minimum inconvenience and typically data loss, firings, loss of revenue, lawsuits, etc |
| 23:03.36 | nsadmin | depending of course on whether the data you lose is yours :) |
| 23:04.16 | wakko222 | or a night on the couch when you lose all the baby pictures :) |
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| 23:04.33 | nsadmin | yeah, that too |
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| 23:10.10 | PCChris_ | Wyzard, thank you for all the help |
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| 23:15.42 | flamingspinach | autofs5 is in stable, testing, and sid, but autofs (i.e. autofs4) is only in sid |
| 23:15.49 | flamingspinach | that suggests that autofs5 is the recommended version of autofs, no? |
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| 23:16.00 | flamingspinach | so why does the package description of autofs5 say it's the "experimental branch" of the autofs code? |
| 23:17.07 | TrueDD | Good night all |
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| 23:21.46 | aguitel_ | is anyone working with Linksys WUSB54GC wireless usb card ? |
| 23:22.07 | abrotman | you? |
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| 23:23.16 | aguitel_ | abrotman, you have this card? |
| 23:23.25 | abrotman | you do? does it work? |
| 23:24.00 | aguitel_ | i try but is not working for me |
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| 23:24.39 | s3a | I want to install Debian using a USB flash drive on a computer whose BIOS does not support USB. Does anyone know of an image to put in a floppy to tell the computer to look in the USB? |
| 23:24.55 | abrotman | !WUSB54GC |
| 23:24.55 | dpkg | The WUSB54GC "Compact Wireless-G USB Adapter" (aka WUSB54GC-EU) is a wireless LAN device produced by Linksys. For support of device version 1 (USB ID 13B1:0020), ask me about <rt73>. For support of device version 2 (USB ID 1737:0073), ask me about <rtl8187b>. For support of device version 3 (USB ID 1737:0077), ask me about <rt2870>. |
| 23:25.23 | s3a | abrotman, was that for me? |
| 23:25.30 | dvs | looks like firmware-realtek is in order |
| 23:25.30 | aguitel_ | s3a, try plop manager |
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| 23:25.42 | deepy | s3a: can't you just install grub to the floppy? |
| 23:26.21 | s3a | i want to isntall grub to the hard drive of the computer, i just want the installer to load |
| 23:26.25 | s3a | unless grub can boot an iso |
| 23:26.37 | s3a | im looking at plop manager |
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| 23:26.45 | gohdan | s3a: does it already have an os on it? |
| 23:26.51 | s3a | xp |
| 23:26.58 | s3a | windows |
| 23:27.28 | s3a | aguitel, when i download plpbt-5.0.12.zip, what do I do next? |
| 23:28.13 | gohdan | !goodbye microsoft |
| 23:28.14 | dpkg | http://www.goodbye-windows.com/debian/ will install Debian side-by-side with an existing win32/64 system (see site for ongoing compatibility). It can be non-destructive if you follow directions, or if you want, just replace that evil non-free OS all together. Supaplex is the webmaster (for site issues), see site for all FAQ. #goodbye-windows.com on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 23:30.43 | aguitel_ | s3a, unzip the iso image and burn this iso |
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| 23:31.49 | thewanderer1 | why exactly does a lenny->squeeze upgrade want to pull in apache2-mpm-prefork ? |
| 23:32.01 | thewanderer1 | (and PHP with that) |
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| 23:35.22 | s3a | the goodbye windows thing is that like wubi for ubuntu? |
| 23:35.28 | s3a | because I don't want that |
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| 23:35.57 | JordiGH | Okay, I seem to have created the encrypted lvm volume. |
| 23:36.01 | JordiGH | How do I mount it now? |
| 23:37.00 | s3a | is there any debian installer that fits on a floppy? netinstall is too large |
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| 23:37.13 | s3a | I have an ethernet port and a floppy drive |
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| 23:37.37 | jgh | Er, how do I mount the encrypted lvm volume I just created on an external hd? |
| 23:37.43 | jgh | I created an ext4 fs there. |
| 23:39.05 | abrotman | how many times are you going to ask? |
| 23:39.18 | abrotman | s3a: not anymore .. unless you wan tto use an older installer, and then upgrade from there |
| 23:39.20 | jgh | How many times have I asked? |
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| 23:43.45 | rahul | what did I do to make input devices work in testing? |
| 23:43.52 | rahul | neither mouse nor kbd work in X |
| 23:44.34 | rahul | not to mention the latest kernel doesn't boot... |
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| 23:45.02 | gohdan | s3a: i've never used it but i assume it just drops a pixie boot type installed that pulls everything down off the net |
| 23:45.27 | gohdan | s/installed/installer |
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| 23:53.47 | jgh | Hm. |
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| 23:53.50 | jgh | Okay, I mounted it. |
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| 23:54.03 | jgh | But it was too much work, because neither pmount nor nautilus easily understand lvm. |
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| 23:54.12 | jgh | Maybe I should just do the whole thing over without lvm |
| 23:54.36 | rahul | just let linux mount the fs |
| 23:54.53 | rahul | what is strange about your setup that linux can't manage the devices for you? |
| 23:55.13 | jgh | What do you mean "let linux mount the fs"? Am I somehow preventing Linux from doing that right now? |
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| 23:58.32 | rahul | jgh: I don't know... that's why I'm asking |
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| 23:59.01 | rahul | jgh: why do you need something other than basic linux tools to mount your fs? |
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