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| 00:04.22 | exaboy | is there any way to know? and or configure it ? |
| 00:05.43 | Vasistha | exaboy: I imagine there must be, though I don't know personally. Have you consulted google for set cron time zone ? |
| 00:05.55 | Vasistha | or anacron |
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| 00:07.44 | daemonkeeper | Well thewanderer1, luckily there is an easy way to find out? ;) |
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| 00:09.24 | thewanderer1 | daemonkeeper, yeah well, I'll just wait for the next timezone shift and use "deep cronic introspection" as an excuse for procrastinating :P |
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| 00:09.59 | daemonkeeper | thewanderer1: That works too! |
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| 00:17.42 | boudiccas | thewanderer1; deep colonic introspection? really??? |
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| 00:20.07 | Vasistha | how do I figure out which driver a particular device is using? the device is Atheros AR5212 (wireless card in my t42) |
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| 00:24.22 | K1rk | I am thinking about rebuilding my home desktop experience this week. I have 3 monitors on my desk, right now attached to two computers so I can still run some legacy Windows stuff. |
| 00:24.50 | K1rk | Is there a good guide on how to properly configure X server to span multiple monitors? I'm thinking about doing this either with Gnome or XFCE. |
| 00:25.12 | K1rk | I am also considering adding a 2nd video card to gain 3 DVI ports total in the machine, so I can have all 3 monitors be my new Linux configuration. |
| 00:25.21 | K1rk | Anyone done anything like that before? |
| 00:25.35 | EricRaymond | i have one monitor :D |
| 00:26.05 | exaboy | #ffmpeg |
| 00:26.07 | Vasistha | K1rk: I'm sure somebody has. I'm skeptical about there being a "good" guide. X11 documentation is unfortunately extremely lacking. |
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| 00:26.29 | K1rk | Yeah Vasistha I have noticed that. |
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| 00:26.49 | gasull | K1rk: try installing arandr |
| 00:26.58 | gimpy941 | K1rk: Proprietary drivers have their own way of doing it, I'm not sure of the X11 way though. |
| 00:27.21 | gasull | K1rk: I use arandr with XFCE. Works great. |
| 00:27.29 | Rockj | Q: what's the package name for the nvidia free driver? (as in opensource) Figured out my card isn't supported anylonger by the non-free one .. so want to revert back to open source one. |
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| 00:27.43 | K1rk | gasull: Thank you for that tip... |
| 00:27.46 | Vasistha | K1rk: keep asking, maybe consult some forums / mailing lists as opposed to irc, and google like a maniac |
| 00:27.52 | K1rk | Looks like the Synergy configuration tool I have used before for another purpose. |
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| 00:28.37 | HiDeHo | in debian it boots into a tty running startx and sudo service gdm3 start do nothing but give errors saying display already in use. in a tty how can display be in use |
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| 00:29.02 | K1rk | On that note, would it be better for me to use an nVidia 9800GTX+ or an ATI Radeon x1950pro? |
| 00:29.08 | K1rk | I have both of them laying around, they're pretty comparable cards. |
| 00:29.15 | shiloh | HiDeHo, im having ther same problem,,,, all day |
| 00:29.19 | K1rk | Which drivers do you think will be more of a pain to deal with? lol |
| 00:29.19 | shiloh | since update |
| 00:29.49 | HiDeHo | shiloh: if i new what to do i woudl be ok lol |
| 00:29.51 | gimpy941 | K1rk: I've had better luck with nvidia but I could never get 3 monitors working with one. |
| 00:29.55 | HiDeHo | shiloh: you on debian testing |
| 00:30.03 | K1rk | gimpy941: My nVidia card only has 2 DVI ports. |
| 00:30.09 | shiloh | HiDeHo, yes |
| 00:30.15 | K1rk | I do have an nVidia 8400 or something laying around which I had planned to use to try to implement a 3rd. |
| 00:30.37 | K1rk | I assume it's doable to have independent GPUs in linux and use both right? |
| 00:30.42 | gimpy941 | K1rk: Seperate video cards like that may not work but you can try. |
| 00:30.50 | Vasistha | K1rk: my gut instinct is to go with ATI, since I believe they have been more open with their drivers. But honestly I'm really not sure. This kind of functionality is way outside my realm of experience |
| 00:31.55 | gasull | purple-url-handler isn't opening irc:// links on pidgin. How do I know if the problem is with purple-url-handler or with pidgin? How can I troubleshoot this? |
| 00:32.34 | K1rk | While I have you all here... anyone familiar with NX? Either freenx or NoMachine's free edition... I've been trying to set up a GUI where I can access my physical computer's desktop using NX, like VNC, while the screen is locked on my desktop. |
| 00:32.56 | K1rk | NX can access the computer but it starts its own X session |
| 00:33.10 | K1rk | I want to connect to my :0 display so I can access applications I had running on the physical GUI |
| 00:33.37 | shiloh | HiDeHo, aqll i asked about was why the new menu was mnissinbg all the admoin stuff,,,,,,,,,,, |
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| 00:36.15 | Rockj | A: nouveau it was. |
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| 00:37.29 | exaboy | ?libfaac-dev |
| 00:37.31 | exaboy | ??libfaac-dev |
| 00:37.38 | exaboy | !libfaac-dev |
| 00:37.42 | exaboy | hmm |
| 00:37.52 | hikenboot | anyone use linux-iscsi on debian...I am trying to figure a way to get it working with kernel 2.6.32-6-pve (a proxmox kernel) I need it to be able to support persistent reservations for MSCS cluster servers running as kvm guests anyone able to help? |
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| 00:38.38 | shiloh | can someone ask in #debian-next to invite me please? says i cant join the channel invite only |
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| 00:39.40 | themill | shiloh: wrong network; irc.oftc.net |
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| 00:40.05 | lindenle_ | Is there a way to see all available versions of a package |
| 00:40.21 | themill | lindenle_: define "all" in this sense |
| 00:40.39 | lindenle_ | different versions from a repo |
| 00:40.42 | themill | (a release normally only has one version of a package except during a transition) |
| 00:41.17 | lindenle_ | it is a third party repo |
| 00:41.29 | themill | lindenle_: apt-cache policy $package |
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| 00:42.04 | hikenboot | oh I am using squeeze by the way |
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| 00:42.37 | hosler | so i downloaded the premake4 binary and chmod +x to it and placed it in /usr/bin, but i still get /usr/bin/premake4 not found error. whats up with that? |
| 00:43.19 | gimpy941 | hosler: Do you also have read access? |
| 00:43.35 | hosler | yeah |
| 00:43.56 | gimpy941 | hosler: Paste exactly how you are running it and the error you get. |
| 00:43.59 | hosler | oops. could it possibly be that its a 32bit binary on a 64bit system? |
| 00:44.52 | gimpy941 | hosler: Maybe, install 32 bit libs and see if it works. aptitude install ia32-libs |
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| 00:46.28 | hosler | gimpy941: i will type "/usr/bin/premake4" and get error "pdksh: premake4: No such file or directory" |
| 00:46.34 | hosler | and its there |
| 00:46.48 | hosler | same error in bash |
| 00:47.22 | lindenle_ | aptitude versions <package> |
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| 00:49.22 | hosler | gonna see if the 32bit libs helps then ill just build premake |
| 00:50.42 | hosler | i hate how my VPS host wont let me create a swap file |
| 00:51.09 | gnarface | get a better one |
| 00:51.12 | hosler | gimpy941: yup ia32-libs did the trick, thanks |
| 00:51.16 | gimpy941 | get a better provider. |
| 00:51.29 | hosler | this one is only 10 dollars a year |
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| 00:51.48 | gnarface | doesn't matter. we all have to stop encouraging poor business. |
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| 00:54.29 | hosler | gnarface: i think its the SolusVM and lots of other popular VPS managers that do it |
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| 00:56.26 | gnarface | hosler: you can be part of the problem, or you can be part of the solution |
| 00:56.53 | hosler | gnarface: i cant afford 20 dollar/month vps |
| 00:56.55 | hosler | lol |
| 00:57.10 | gnarface | hosler: but you can run your own |
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| 00:57.21 | hosler | im behind a double nat |
| 00:57.33 | gnarface | hosler: tragic |
| 00:57.36 | hosler | yup |
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| 01:02.43 | hosler | ah, Xen uses swap |
| 01:02.48 | hosler | mine uses burstable |
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| 01:10.12 | Vasistha | I have two similar computers (t42) and each has the same atheros wireless. lspci -k lists that one is using ath_pci as well as ath5k and the other (which is having wireless trouble) is only using ath5k |
| 01:11.08 | gasull | purple-url-handler isn't opening irc links from firefox on pidgin. How can I troubleshoot this? |
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| 01:18.13 | unforgiven512 | I'm using Debian testing amd64, using GNOME3 from repositories, and it seems as if, randomly, gnome-shell crashes and restarts itself. |
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| 01:19.59 | unforgiven512 | Seems there are quite a handful of bugs on the BTS |
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| 01:23.03 | esprimo | Okay |
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| 01:24.14 | Lasers | unforgiven512: I have been using Gnome3, testing, amd64. No random crashes. |
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| 01:28.49 | unforgiven512 | Lasers: It's not a full-on crash. Everything disappears for about 2 seconds, then reappears. |
| 01:29.20 | unforgiven512 | And it's not like the screen blacks out and comes back, it looks like g-s is reloading itself, or something |
| 01:29.26 | Lasers | unforgiven512: I don't get that either. |
| 01:29.37 | unforgiven512 | Hmm |
| 01:29.41 | Lasers | I'm on it right now. Everything have been a breeze. |
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| 01:29.48 | unforgiven512 | It just started doing it within the past couple days |
| 01:30.07 | unforgiven512 | I'm on it right now, too. And until this started occuring, I've had zero issues. |
| 01:30.22 | Lasers | You updated something recently ? |
| 01:30.39 | Lasers | New packages? |
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| 01:31.08 | unforgiven512 | Just apt-get update/upgrades |
| 01:32.33 | Lasers | Icic. You added extensions from gnome-tweak* |
| 01:32.35 | Lasers | ? |
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| 01:32.55 | Lasers | I pretty have a vanilla Gnome3.0, not Gnome3.2. |
| 01:33.25 | unforgiven512 | Aaaand it just fully crashed, took me back to the login screen |
| 01:33.52 | unforgiven512 | and this is all that is in /var/log/messages |
| 01:33.55 | unforgiven512 | Dec 16 20:31:31 buprenorphine kernel: [ 2369.937754] chrome[3359]: segfault at 0 ip 00007f5bd3ed14d3 sp 00007f5bc32daab0 error 4 in chrome[7f5bd3588000+3a4c000] |
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| 01:34.38 | Lasers | Google Chrome? |
| 01:35.08 | unforgiven512 | Hmm, `cat /var/log/messages | grep segfault` returns quite a few segfaults, on gksu, gksudo, gnome-shell, gedit, chrome, file-roller |
| 01:35.11 | unforgiven512 | over the past 4-5 days |
| 01:35.33 | *** part/#debian gasull (~gasull@c-24-5-175-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:35.36 | unforgiven512 | And yes, Google Chrome. But that shouldn't be causing system-wide issues. |
| 01:36.07 | EricRaymond | random segfaults? |
| 01:36.10 | EricRaymond | sounds like hardware |
| 01:36.14 | unforgiven512 | Ugh |
| 01:36.28 | EricRaymond | how about you get some temp readings from lm-sensors and run a memtest |
| 01:37.16 | unforgiven512 | http://pastebin.com/5Shm9yYq <-- sensors |
| 01:37.30 | JaredKz | I'm updating and it brings up this message with (END), how do I tell the aptitude update to continue |
| 01:37.36 | unforgiven512 | I don't see anything abnormal |
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| 01:37.43 | EricRaymond | nope, how about a quick 2 pass memtest :D |
| 01:38.01 | unforgiven512 | on 8GB? lol |
| 01:38.18 | EricRaymond | ok how about when you are sleeping tonight |
| 01:38.50 | unforgiven512 | memtest86 or memtest86+ ? |
| 01:38.56 | unforgiven512 | (I'm assuming +) |
| 01:39.40 | EricRaymond | yep |
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| 01:40.35 | Vasistha | hmm how do I reprogram dpkg-bot for a factoid that contains spaces? i.e. "which module for 0200" |
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| 01:41.06 | Vasistha | The command given there is kinda lousy because if lspci returns more than one match, the grep command does not work properly |
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| 01:45.54 | raven | how to open sound device (microphone) in vlc? what is the correct /dev/ path? |
| 01:46.13 | Zao | Yet again, I naively assumed that 'service networking restart' would _work_ and not pull the world down knowing it won't get it up again... |
| 01:46.21 | unforgiven512 | EricRaymond: Thanks for the help, I'm going to reboot and check a few settings in my BIOS |
| 01:46.22 | Zao | What is the proper way to down+up everything? |
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| 01:48.28 | Zao | It turns out that things marked allow-hotplug are not pulled up by 'networking start'... why are things marked such by default in /etc/network/interfaces if it makes things utterly unusable? |
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| 01:49.58 | nsadmin | , versions a2jmidid |
| 01:49.59 | judd | Package: a2jmidid on i386 -- sid: 7-3; wheezy: 7-3 |
| 01:50.13 | nsadmin | hmm, I must have backported that |
| 01:50.14 | EricRaymond | zao - you do "auto device" instead |
| 01:50.22 | EricRaymond | you can do* |
| 01:50.34 | Zao | EricRaymond: I wish that this was better documented than a stray maillist thread :( |
| 01:50.38 | boudiccas | can some gnome user please tell me where you set wallpaper please? i have a jpeg i'd like to use for wallpaper but i cant find where to set it |
| 01:50.45 | Zao | (for reference, http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2011/02/msg01309.html ) |
| 01:50.58 | Vasistha | damn crazy bot. |
| 01:51.04 | Zao | EricRaymond: This has hit me more than one time when setting up boxen, which ends up really amusing when not having a local console. |
| 01:51.22 | Zao | Especially when you even take care detaching the network restart so that it won't be interrupted by the loss of ssh link :) |
| 01:51.57 | EricRaymond | For some reason I still use auto ethx all the time |
| 01:52.03 | EricRaymond | I don't really know the difference between them : ( |
| 01:52.11 | Zao | I configure boxen seldom enough to remember anything. |
| 01:52.24 | Zao | In this case, I went with allow-hotplug as it was defaulted there by some installer. |
| 01:52.40 | EricRaymond | yeah, that happens to me alot, I forget little things here and there, it's always a learning experiance :D |
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| 01:53.09 | nsadmin | Zao, copy some of the text, that which would have helped you the most, submit it as documentation for the package, and/or as text on a debian wiki page |
| 01:54.16 | boudiccas | can some gnome user please tell me where you set wallpaper please? i have a jpeg i'd like to use for wallpaper but i cant find where to set it |
| 01:54.18 | nsadmin | Zao, also note that doing those kinds of things to a remote is inherently risky |
| 01:54.37 | nsadmin | where risk is scaled by distance |
| 01:54.46 | EricRaymond | one of the nice things about GUIs is that all the options are presented to you |
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| 01:54.53 | EricRaymond | either in dropdown boxes or radio boxes |
| 01:55.08 | Zao | nsadmin: When doing an action you know has worked perfectly fine in the past, and you even take care tmux:ing the operation, such a thing kicks you squarely on the shins. |
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| 01:55.37 | nsadmin | EricRaymond, ahh, but there's the rub: the only way a gui will present you all the options is if that had been prearranged |
| 01:55.42 | Zao | I guess the modern GNU/Linux operator doesn't care about having anything up before logging into his single-user graphical environment. |
| 01:55.53 | Zao | nurses some bitterness |
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| 01:56.18 | nsadmin | Zao, what's the distance to the machine you restart networking on? |
| 01:56.45 | lukaso666 | hi! I changed shell in my Aptosid (now I have dash) and I would like to change my line as root: without default hostname but with some word after "@" (for ex. "debian") - where I can change it? |
| 01:57.01 | Zao | This time, a VM on my desktop. Last time, 250km over a holiday. |
| 01:57.30 | Zao | The latter time warranted doing it remotely. |
| 01:57.53 | Zao | Ended up calling someone to either pull up a local console or flip the switch, can't remember. |
| 01:58.17 | nsadmin | the 250km one, that's risky :) with constant distance, risk is then scaled by degree of missioncriticalness and by number of users for which that machine is critical |
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| 01:58.44 | Bogus8 | I know "safe" is relative. But is there any system that can encrypt text (say a credit card number) and store it in a database then unencrypt it when needed later but not have it just unencrypt it for just "anybody"? |
| 01:58.49 | boudiccas | can some gnome user please tell me where you set wallpaper please? i have a jpeg i'd like to use for wallpaper but i cant find where to set it |
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| 01:59.09 | nsadmin | the vm thing, that's just mildly inconvenient since there should be tools to get the console |
| 01:59.19 | Lasers | boudiccas: If you're a merchant, I don't think you're supposed to store any credit card numbers. |
| 01:59.29 | boudiccas | Lasers; sorry? |
| 01:59.53 | boudiccas | Lasers; i'm asking about gnome wallpaper |
| 02:00.06 | Lasers | boudiccas: Wrong person. Sorry! :) |
| 02:00.22 | nsadmin | Bogus8, yeah, you should check whether you're at all permitted to store cc numbers |
| 02:00.37 | Engywuck | boudiccas, http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Set+as+Wallpaper?content=83763 |
| 02:00.45 | Engywuck | second result in google.... |
| 02:00.47 | nsadmin | that's -very- serious biznez |
| 02:01.25 | raven | how to open sound device (microphone) in vlc? what is the correct /dev/ path? |
| 02:01.36 | Zao | Bogus8: It's not trivial to answer... considering that the input is small, you can easily get into problems with pre-image attacks being feasible. |
| 02:01.37 | Bogus8 | nsadmin: yeah, that's a good question. I think it is just a "liability" which is why I'm looking for a good way to store them. We have a lot of repeat customers and they just expect us to rerun their CC when they order again. Obvioiusly shopping cart systems online can handle this but I'm not looking to be online, I'm looking for more over the phone/manual processing. |
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| 02:01.43 | Engywuck | nsadmin, no, it's not. If Sony can get away with storing unencrypted/unsalted stuff.... ;-) |
| 02:01.50 | Lasers | boudiccas: I usually open the picture (with eog-something) then press F8 to set it. |
| 02:01.56 | Engywuck | raven: depends... :D |
| 02:02.20 | Bogus8 | Zao: not following you. |
| 02:02.24 | nsadmin | maybe Sony shouldn't get away with it, but that's not germain presently :) |
| 02:02.39 | Zao | Bogus8: Use some proper asymmetric crypto, encrypt things with a public key, decrypt them in a very restricted environment with the private key. |
| 02:03.05 | Zao | Bogus8: But still, you should look into outsourcing storage to someone else, simply holding some kind of token you can authenticate against your vendor. |
| 02:03.16 | Bogus8 | Zao: yeah, that's my thoughts... is there any prepackaged system that does that sort of thing? |
| 02:03.17 | Engywuck | if it's just for your personal use you can use nearly any "walet" type password saver |
| 02:03.19 | nsadmin | Bogus8, the best thing, send them to the bank pages, and parse the bank's reply: either the money has been transferred to you or not |
| 02:03.35 | raven | Engywuck, on what? |
| 02:03.38 | Zao | Bogus8: I would strongly recommend consulting someone professionally. |
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| 02:03.43 | Engywuck | but if you are a vendor.... ask someone who takes responsibility if something goes wrong |
| 02:03.50 | Zao | Preferably with proper PCI competence and all that jazz. |
| 02:04.01 | nsadmin | Engywuck, agreed |
| 02:04.28 | Engywuck | raven, on the sound system you are using, for example |
| 02:04.31 | ericraymond | yeah, storing credit cards yourself sounds super dangerous |
| 02:04.35 | Lasers | Bogus8: Online merchants does not keep CC numbers, I believe. From what I understand, they made a transaction and they received a different number from bank (for possibily repeated customers) so when they use the number from bank, the bank know which customer. |
| 02:04.35 | ericraymond | and complicated to comply with rules |
| 02:04.48 | Bogus8 | I am very small time... > 50 accounts... but we have to change our current method for sure. |
| 02:05.01 | nsadmin | there, the difference is, either you are storing YOUR OWN cc number, or you are storing SOMEONE ELSE'S for the purpose of making easy purchases after the one they're on |
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| 02:05.10 | raven | Engywuck, eeepc 1005ha internal mic - how to find out? /dev/snd/ anytzhing does not seem to work |
| 02:05.48 | Bogus8 | Lasers: Yeah, I was not suggesting that they keep the number, but more so the ability to repeatedly process... like newegg... you just reinput the 3 digit code and checkout with a "stored" number. |
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| 02:06.45 | Lasers | Bogus8: Outsource it or force the customers to repeat the numbers because you run a pizza joint. Newegg does not keep CC numbers. They keep numbers that bank gave them (ie transaction numbers). |
| 02:07.11 | Lasers | Bogus8: Afaik, the businesses aren't allowed to keep any CC numbers. |
| 02:07.44 | Bogus8 | Lasers: gotcha... so basically newegg keeps a "unique" (to them) CC number and that bank only accepts THAT number from THEM on future transactions. |
| 02:08.16 | Engywuck | if in doubt, ask a lawyer ;-) |
| 02:08.41 | nsadmin | yeah, you need a business consultant of some kind |
| 02:09.30 | Lasers | Bogus8: Something like that. When you firstly ran a transaction online, there will be secure unique numbers (from the bank) that you can store in the future. So in the future, you get the same/new transaction, you use the number (from the bank) and the bank knows which customer it is. |
| 02:09.34 | Bogus8 | so you're saying IRC doesn't cut it? ;) |
| 02:09.44 | nsadmin | doesn't cut what? |
| 02:09.55 | Bogus8 | Lasers: makes sense. |
| 02:09.58 | boudiccas | for the record, i dragged the picture to the desk top, opened it with gwenview and then set it as wallpaper |
| 02:10.10 | Bogus8 | nsadmin: being a legal/professional consultant. :) |
| 02:10.18 | Lasers | Bogus8: It's like asking IRC that you have something rash down there and IRC just tell you.. Go see a doctor. |
| 02:10.30 | boudiccas | or a nurse |
| 02:10.33 | nsadmin | well I see you're just kidding and all :) |
| 02:10.46 | nsadmin | or a horse |
| 02:11.01 | Bogus8 | LOL... I know, BUT... hey, I'm a lot closer to finding a solution than I was before. Basically, I know which tree NOT to bark up at this point. |
| 02:11.22 | nsadmin | yeah, that's true |
| 02:12.21 | Bogus8 | and know I know a good way to store my personal CC info so my wife can stop asking me for it from accross the room when she needs to buy something and doesn't have her wallet ;) |
| 02:12.24 | Lasers | boudiccas: Yes. That's what I do, with eog. Open it with eog, press F8. Done. |
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| 02:15.38 | boudiccas | Lasers; thanks for the tip about eog, didnt know that was available |
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| 02:17.23 | JoeK | paypal |
| 02:17.24 | JoeK | :) |
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| 02:20.00 | raven | Engywuck, eeepc 1005ha internal mic - how to find out? /dev/snd/ anytzhing does not seem to work |
| 02:20.12 | raven | Engywuck? |
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| 02:29.45 | clean | hi, friends, can dnsmasq be configured to selectively resolve the names among different DNS servers ? thanks |
| 02:30.09 | unforgiven512 | Hmm, I am getting this message in /var/log/syslog when gnome-shell kills/reinits itself |
| 02:30.12 | unforgiven512 | Dec 16 21:26:30 buprenorphine x-session-manager[2968]: WARNING: Application 'gnome-shell.desktop' killed by signal |
| 02:30.28 | unforgiven512 | What could possibly be killing gnome-shell? |
| 02:30.45 | clean | I mean, the name a.com should be resolved by ns1, and b.com resolved by ns2, etc |
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| 02:37.50 | Lasers | boudiccas: That usually come with gnome. (image viewer). I'm not sure what you use by default, but yeah, you're welcome. :) |
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| 02:43.36 | zykotick9 | raven, not sure if this will help you, but with my EEE 1005PE to get internal mic working - I install pavucontrol (Pulse Audio), then Input Device tab unlock, set front left to 90 and set front right to 10 - then it works?! |
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| 02:46.30 | K1rk | Whoever suggested arandr for my multiple screens, you're a genius, thank you so much. |
| 02:46.46 | K1rk | Now I have a question... I would like for all my screens to be a unified desktop so I can drag windows, etc, which arandr sets up for me. |
| 02:46.58 | K1rk | However I'd like my workspace switcher to exist on all 3 screens and be able to toggle ONLY that screen's contents. |
| 02:47.00 | K1rk | Is that doable? |
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| 02:51.55 | juanfra | Hi. Has debian a official nntp server? |
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| 03:03.28 | Vasistha | juanfra: I kinda doubt it |
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| 03:05.39 | K1rk | Can you guys help me setup my new displays here? |
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| 03:06.03 | K1rk | I have two GPU's running and I got my BIOS to initialize both of them. Debian will let me use TTY2 on a mirrored screen of my two DVI ports on my PCI Express graphics card. |
| 03:06.05 | kfogel | K1rk: well, go ahead and state the problem and we'll see what we can do . |
| 03:06.12 | kfogel | K1rk: heh, crossed in channel |
| 03:06.14 | K1rk | And it loads X on the second GPU |
| 03:06.27 | K1rk | I want X across all 3 screens |
| 03:06.33 | K1rk | Any ideas? |
| 03:06.34 | kfogel | K1rk: umrmmph. Sorry, that I don't know much about solving. |
| 03:06.52 | Rockj | how can I stop my monitors from blanking in debian wheezly? (gdm3) |
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| 03:07.12 | kfogel | Rockj: the usual System Setting --> Screen --> etc didn't work? |
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| 03:07.31 | Rockj | there is no option to setting it to never under system properties and xset complains about no display found. |
| 03:08.30 | kfogel | Rockj: hmrm. Can you narrate what you're clicking on, and tell what version of debian / gnome / etc this is? |
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| 03:09.11 | Rockj | kfogel: debian testing, gnome3. |
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| 03:09.55 | Rockj | I can only set it to turn off between 1min to 1 hour , but never to be able to say "never" |
| 03:10.04 | kfogel | Rockj: I go to upper left corner, then: Applications --> System Tools --> System Settings --> Screen |
| 03:10.08 | kfogel | Rockj: that's what you're going to? |
| 03:10.20 | Rockj | kfogel: gnome3 is a huge difference from gnome2 :( |
| 03:10.28 | Rockj | kfogel: gnome3 aka gnome-shell |
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| 03:11.07 | kfogel | Rockj: yeah, i'm not a fan of gnome3 yet, though I guess as it gets more customizable some of the bugs can be fixed :-) |
| 03:11.18 | K1rk | I'm not a fan either. That's why I'm using xfce on my new Debian install, lol |
| 03:11.19 | kfogel | Rockj: hmmm, you know what, I don't have a "never" setting there either! odd |
| 03:11.26 | kfogel | K1rk: I may try it out. |
| 03:11.51 | K1rk | kfogel: xfce is a bit simpler, it maintains a lot of Gnome's simplicity. |
| 03:11.56 | K1rk | It's not as fluffy though |
| 03:12.01 | K1rk | Kind of the Windows 2000 of interfaces |
| 03:13.25 | kfogel | K1rk: does it have permanent virtual desktops and kbd shortcuts to switch between them? that's about all I need |
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| 03:13.38 | K1rk | You mean a workspace switcher, kfogel? |
| 03:13.40 | kfogel | Rockj: can I suggest irc.gnome.org? |
| 03:13.42 | K1rk | It has a workspace switcher just like Gnome |
| 03:13.50 | kfogel | Rockj: and if you find out the answer, please let us know! I want a "never" option too :-) |
| 03:13.56 | kfogel | K1rk: sorry, workspace, yes |
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| 03:14.06 | K1rk | kfogel: http://www.xfce.org/about/screenshots |
| 03:14.06 | Rockj | kfogel: I guess ill take the trip. |
| 03:14.15 | K1rk | Debian stable has 4.6, the new builds have 4.8 |
| 03:14.56 | K1rk | kfogel: And you have that little X\Mouse button that acts as your Start Menu \ Apps Menu |
| 03:14.59 | janis | hi guys! I am using the new testing packages, that use /run as tmpfs and /var/lock as links to /run/lock, /dev/shm linked to /run/shm too. At which point should the subdirs lock and shm be created within /run? This stage does not happen and I end up with errors like: aptitude: cannot lock file -2 File does not exist (or something like this) |
| 03:15.00 | K1rk | Very similar in feel to Gnome |
| 03:15.04 | kfogel | K1rk: old Gnome allowed permanent (static), set number of workspaces. I have 9, and each has a designated thing on it. I then map F1-F9 to them, and life is good. |
| 03:15.13 | K1rk | kfogel let me see |
| 03:15.35 | kfogel | janis: sorry, don't know about that |
| 03:15.59 | K1rk | kfogel damn it looks like in addition, xfce's space switcher only supports 1-4 desktops |
| 03:16.04 | janis | :( |
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| 03:17.45 | kfogel | K1rk: hunh. that's a pity. |
| 03:17.53 | kfogel | I'm trying to understand the security implications of running non-free wireless card firmware (for Intel Centrino 1000-N BGN, hence has in-tree kernel driver). I've grokked from various sources on the net that "firmware" in this context is a binary file that is never called directly by kernel code, but is rather "uploaded" ("crossloaded?"), as data, to the wireless card itself, which needs it to operate. Thus non-free firmware (while obvio |
| 03:17.54 | kfogel | usly not ideal for other reasons) is not as serious a security problem as a non-free driver. Does this match or contradict anyone else's understanding of the situation? |
| 03:18.05 | kfogel | switches topics to ask the question he originally came in here to ask |
| 03:20.57 | juanfra | Vasistha: thanks. Finally I found the info http://www.debian.org/support#usenet . |
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| 03:25.50 | unforgiven512 | Seems like this may be what is killing off gnome-shell: |
| 03:25.52 | unforgiven512 | x-session-manager[2968]: GLib-GIO-ERROR: Settings schema 'org.gnome.shell' does not contain a key named 'enabled-extensions'#012aborting... |
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| 03:46.35 | rypervenche | !why isn't lmms in testing? |
| 03:46.36 | dpkg | lmms is not in testing for the reasons listed in http://release.debian.org/migration/testing.pl?package=lmms |
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| 03:51.13 | kfogel | Just bringing it back: Rockj found out at irc.gnome.org that "gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power sleep-display-ac" solves his problem, at least as a workaround. |
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| 03:52.10 | Rockj | mhm, setting it to zero. |
| 03:52.27 | unforgiven512 | Rockj: What was your problem? |
| 03:52.57 | Rockj | unforgiven512: disable monitor blanking / keep turning off |
| 03:53.20 | Rockj | and xset dkps or what it is (power saving stuff) didn't find the displays so that didn't work. all the other solutions found on google didn't help me |
| 03:53.21 | kfogel | unforgiven512: his monitors would blank, and Gnome3 Settings for Screen has no option for "infinity" as in no timeout. It's really a gnome issue. |
| 03:53.22 | Rockj | that one did. |
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| 03:54.05 | unforgiven512 | Yeah I noticed that as well |
| 03:54.15 | unforgiven512 | And there's no "inhibit-applet" anymore, either. |
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| 03:57.24 | unforgiven512 | Thanks! |
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| 03:57.55 | unforgiven512 | I removed the gnome-shell-extension-* packages I installed from a 3rd party, and I think that *may* have fixed my random crashing issue |
| 03:58.01 | unforgiven512 | I need to stress-test |
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| 04:14.31 | kfogel | I'm trying to understand the security implications of running non-free wireless card firmware (for Intel Centrino 1000-N BGN, hence has in-tree kernel driver). I've grokked from various sources on the net that "firmware" in this context is a binary file that is never called directly by kernel code, but is rather "uploaded" ("crossloaded?"), as data, to the wireless card itself, which needs it to operate. Thus non-free firmware (while obvio |
| 04:14.33 | kfogel | usly not ideal for other reasons) is not as serious a security problem as a non-free driver. Does this match or contradict anyone else's understanding of the situation? |
| 04:14.55 | ericraymond | why is not ideal for other obvious reasons? |
| 04:15.14 | kfogel | ericraymond: are you the ESR I know, or a different eric raymond? |
| 04:15.24 | kfogel | ericraymond: anyway, to answer your question! |
| 04:15.29 | gimpy941 | ericraymond: You're on #debian asking why non-free is obviously not ideal? |
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| 04:15.41 | kfogel | ericraymond: hold on, I've got a good reference for this actually |
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| 04:16.23 | ericraymond | woah :D |
| 04:16.25 | kfogel | so, the list of concerns here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_blob#Problems |
| 04:16.39 | ericraymond | well, he was talking about security specficially |
| 04:16.43 | kfogel | ericraymond: which in that page is really about non-free drivers, but which applies (albeit with less force IMHO) to firmware. |
| 04:17.00 | ericraymond | so most of the reasons on that page don't apply to security |
| 04:17.03 | kfogel | ericraymond: well, that's what the "other reasons" part was a parenthetical aside |
| 04:17.09 | ericraymond | the rest would only be a problem if you don't trust Intel |
| 04:17.12 | kfogel | ericraymond: I think that was, linguistically, a pretty non-controversial move on my part :-). |
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| 04:17.27 | ericraymond | I'm not ESR :D |
| 04:17.39 | kfogel | ericraymond: I do not trust Intel to be able to vet all its employees, sure |
| 04:17.42 | ericraymond | kfogel , I load non-free firmware for myrinet 10gbe |
| 04:17.49 | kfogel | ericraymond: I may have to load it for my card too |
| 04:18.03 | kfogel | ericraymond: but I'll feel better about it if my conjecture about the technical nature of firmware is correct |
| 04:18.07 | kfogel | ericraymond: hence my question above :-) |
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| 04:18.51 | kfogel | .oO To which no one here seems to know the answer, so I guess we're all as ignorant as I am about details of kernel firmware loading |
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| 04:20.21 | anders | i've been googling around, how can i set a custom keymap (on boot)? it isn't included in debian apparently, it's colemak. |
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| 04:20.58 | kfogel | anders: you don't just want it using xmodmap in X, but actually in the kernel? |
| 04:21.10 | anders | kfogel: i mean the console yes |
| 04:21.47 | kfogel | anders: I know there's a long-standing way to do this in Linux, but I can't remember what it's called |
| 04:21.53 | kfogel | anders: well, I've just found the usual google stuff too |
| 04:21.56 | kfogel | anders: e.g., http://www.shallowsky.com/linux/keymap.html |
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| 04:24.42 | lansiir | Can anyone helpp me with a "missing GLX visual" problem? |
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| 04:26.52 | lenswipe | hey guys |
| 04:27.06 | lenswipe | how do i completely wipe a LAMP install and re-do it without formatting the server? |
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| 04:28.06 | kfogel | lenswipe: LAMP is a broad term encompassing several packages |
| 04:28.16 | lenswipe | let me rephrase |
| 04:28.17 | kfogel | lenswipe: what's the problem you're having? |
| 04:28.37 | lenswipe | i fucked up my apache install and i want to wipe apache, php and mysql and all their config files and start again with fresh config files straight from the repos |
| 04:28.43 | lenswipe | thats the problem im having :) |
| 04:29.04 | unforgiven512 | Yeah I spoke too soon, it's still failing |
| 04:29.14 | unforgiven512 | And it's just gnome-shell, it seems |
| 04:29.32 | kfogel | lenswipe: maybe 'aptitude remove PKG' for each one? |
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| 04:30.07 | oldtopman | sorry about the IRC. |
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| 04:30.17 | oldtopman | I have flaky wifi, can anyone of you help me? |
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| 04:30.32 | kfogel | oldtopman: no need to apologize for being in IRC |
| 04:30.38 | kfogel | oldtopman: but don't know if we can help you; what's the symptom? |
| 04:30.55 | oldtopman | "Missing GLX Visual" |
| 04:31.04 | kfogel | lenswipe: (and then 'aptitude update' and then 'aptitude install PKG' for each one, of course) |
| 04:31.11 | kfogel | lenswipe: all as root, though you probably know that already |
| 04:31.12 | oldtopman | I have no drivers installed, which is the problem. |
| 04:31.20 | lenswipe | yh |
| 04:31.24 | kfogel | oldtopman: what is GLX Visual? |
| 04:31.28 | WormFood | is there some tool/method to profile firefox to figure out why in the fuck it is so god damn slow! I'm waiting about a minute for it to respond to anything. It is driving me crazy. |
| 04:31.34 | kfogel | oldtopman: is it related to wifi? |
| 04:31.50 | kfogel | WormFood: hey, run "top" and see if you have a bunch of gtk-gnash processes |
| 04:31.50 | oldtopman | I'm on the Debian chroot on the HP ouchpad, so I was wondering if there was a way around this. |
| 04:32.06 | kfogel | oldtopman: is the problem your flaky wifi, or is the problem something else? |
| 04:32.08 | oldtopman | kfogel: t is a graphics error. |
| 04:32.12 | WormFood | kfogel, none |
| 04:32.12 | kfogel | oldtopman: oooooh |
| 04:32.15 | oldtopman | Oh :P |
| 04:32.20 | kfogel | oldtopman: sorry, I would just be googling. Best of luck. |
| 04:32.31 | kfogel | WormFood: what version of ffox? this is "iceweasel" pkg, right? |
| 04:32.38 | WormFood | I know about gnash. I run noscript to stop a vast majority of shit, |
| 04:32.39 | oldtopman | It happens when start a SDL program. Thanks anyway. |
| 04:32.48 | WormFood | yeah, iceweasel in stable |
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| 04:32.57 | kfogel | oldtopman: wow, I don't even know what GLX and SDL are :-) |
| 04:33.03 | kfogel | WormFood: what version? |
| 04:33.10 | WormFood | whatever is in stable |
| 04:33.13 | WormFood | squeeze |
| 04:33.17 | WormFood | something old |
| 04:33.23 | kfogel | WormFood: go to Help menu, choose About |
| 04:33.25 | WormFood | 3.5.16 |
| 04:33.28 | kfogel | WormFood: thx |
| 04:33.38 | kfogel | WormFood: oh and do you have Firebug or other plugins installed? |
| 04:33.47 | kfogel | WormFood: so, I'm running 'testing' distribution, with Iceweasel 8.0 |
| 04:33.52 | WormFood | I wished I had firebug...won't install, says ff is too old |
| 04:34.05 | kfogel | WormFood: I also had slowness issues. Thye're gone now, though that could be due to many things besides ffox version |
| 04:34.13 | WormFood | I'm trying to kill off my excess tabs, but it is so slow, it is painful |
| 04:34.16 | kfogel | WormFood: all I can say is upgrade, sorry, I know that's a sucky answer |
| 04:34.22 | kfogel | WormFood: I have had exactly your experience, yeah :-( |
| 04:34.27 | WormFood | it is a sucky answer for a sucky browser |
| 04:34.33 | kfogel | WormFood: when even closing tabs is hard, you know things are bad |
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| 04:34.50 | kfogel | WormFood: well, hey know, 8.0 has been treating me very well. :-) |
| 04:34.53 | kfogel | s/know/now/ |
| 04:34.57 | WormFood | and I've had many, many, many more tabs open than what I do now, with no problems |
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| 04:35.22 | kfogel | WormFood: (hey, phone call now, afk for a while, good luck) |
| 04:35.23 | WormFood | I'm suspecting it may be one of my plugins that is causing problems. |
| 04:35.30 | WormFood | thanks for your input kfogel |
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| 04:36.08 | Iridos | WormFood, install xul-ext-firebug from squeeze? |
| 04:36.32 | WormFood | Iridos, no, I'm just gonna upgrade ff |
| 04:36.35 | Iridos | of course, it's the same age |
| 04:36.40 | Iridos | but it will install! |
| 04:36.54 | WormFood | I know it will install, but I don't want to be stuck in last year |
| 04:37.20 | Iridos | judd, versions iceweasel |
| 04:37.22 | judd | Package: iceweasel on i386 -- lenny: 3.0.6-3; lenny-security: 3.0.6-3; squeeze: 3.5.16-10; lenny-backports: 3.5.16-11~bpo50+1; squeeze-security: 3.5.16-11; sid: 8.0-3+b1; wheezy: 8.0-3+b1; experimental: 9.0~b6-1 |
| 04:37.31 | WormFood | that is the "problem" with stable....it is like a snapshot in time...and nothing will ever be upgraded beyond that point, without you doing something about it. |
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| 04:37.44 | WormFood | so, I am doing something about it. |
| 04:38.18 | Iridos | WormFood, well... the correct solution is to use backports or backport it yourself... of course you can also install outside the packaging system... e.g. in /usr/local |
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| 04:39.03 | WormFood | Iridos, thanks, I'm well aware of that, and that is what I'm looking up now (backports). This is a fresh install of stable, as of a few days ago, so I haven't gotten everything setup to my liking. |
| 04:40.19 | Iridos | well, nothing newer in backports right now |
| 04:40.32 | kfogel | WormFood: (off phone temporarily) |
| 04:40.47 | kfogel | WormFood: For what it's worth, I've been running 'testing' dist as my main production distro for more than ten years now, and no problems. |
| 04:40.52 | kfogel | WormFood: "testing: it's the new stable" :-) |
| 04:40.59 | WormFood | I have been running testing or unstable, but after they forced gnome 3 on me, I couldn't handle the retarded design decisions in Gnome 3, and had to "downgrade" to something that actually works (gnome 2). I could tolerate a lot of their shit in gnome3, but when the crammed their head up their ass when I installed my 2nd monitor, I couldn't handle it, and had to change it. |
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| 04:41.58 | WormFood | It will be nice when gnome 3 fixes all their broken shit. It has a lot of promise, and it looks great....sad thing it does not work great. |
| 04:42.02 | kfogel | WormFood: agreed, Gnome3 is not winning right now. I'm sticking with it b/c it seems like they're slowly fixing the bugs (including the UI design bugs, in the sense that they're offering an extension system), so I think it will get better relatively soon. |
| 04:42.05 | Iridos | kfogel, you were just lucky then... |
| 04:42.12 | kfogel | Iridos: quite possibly! |
| 04:42.23 | Iridos | pretty lucky, actually if you use gnome |
| 04:42.29 | WormFood | oh, I *know* it will get better....but right now, it is far from there for me. |
| 04:42.41 | kfogel | Iridos: and I do have to check when doing dist-upgrade; I never have auto-yes on, I always watch what it's going to do and say "Y" manually, just in case it tries to resolve deps by removing gnome or something. |
| 04:42.44 | Iridos | from what I know, gnome3 now slowly makes it from unstable into testing and it's a bumpy ride right noe |
| 04:42.47 | kfogel | WormFood: same here |
| 04:42.51 | WormFood | I used it for about a month....I was so unproductive. I missed so many IMs it wasn't funny. |
| 04:43.14 | WormFood | AND, point-to-focus is totally borked. |
| 04:43.27 | kfogel | WormFood: huh... that's weird |
| 04:43.40 | WormFood | I use sawfish window manager for a reason....because it fuckin' works with point-to-focus, and I have yet to find another WM that actually works right. |
| 04:43.46 | kfogel | WormFood: I personally like point-to-focus (IIUC), *but* it wasn't the default for me. |
| 04:44.06 | kfogel | WormFood: oh, you mean gnome3 broke point-to-focus? |
| 04:44.09 | kfogel | WormFood: yeah |
| 04:44.12 | WormFood | point to focus means less clicking....and I hate to click |
| 04:44.20 | kfogel | WormFood: right, agree -- that's what's working for me |
| 04:44.30 | WormFood | yes, gnome 3 broke point-to-focus |
| 04:44.36 | WormFood | or their WM did. I don't know |
| 04:44.44 | kfogel | WormFood: but it wasn't the gnome3 default, I had to set it. Like this: |
| 04:44.45 | kfogel | gconftool-2 --type string --set /apps/metacity/general/focus_mode mouse |
| 04:44.51 | kfogel | WormFood: which won't work forever, but works right now |
| 04:44.54 | WormFood | I tried other WMs, but nothing worked right. And I looked and looked for their configurations to make it work right. |
| 04:45.33 | kfogel | WormFood: yeah, it sucks how little one can do via either dconf-editor OR the graphical settings UI right now |
| 04:45.34 | WormFood | I just like sawfish. I have been using it for about 10 years, and while I don't use any of the advanced features of it, it does the basics that I want, and it does them well...and it is lightweight. |
| 04:45.53 | kfogel | WormFood: I'm considering switching. Mind if I ask you a few Qs about sawfish? |
| 04:45.54 | Iridos | WormFood, err... openbox is actually pretty reliable |
| 04:46.06 | WormFood | it sucks too much for me to be able to handle it....I had to revert back to gnome 2 |
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| 04:46.39 | unforgiven512 | It looks like this is the issue behind my gnome-shell issues: http://pastebin.com/YH75qigz |
| 04:46.44 | Rusty1 | has been liking e17 of late |
| 04:46.58 | WormFood | but there were some things that were nice about it. I like the task switcher, and the ability to see the contents of the windows....but I didn't like the <alt>` shit....that is very unnatural when you need to hit <alt><shift>` |
| 04:47.02 | kfogel | WormFood: you're saying sawfish sucks too much? |
| 04:47.15 | WormFood | kfogel, no, sawfish is the ONLY WM I can find that works worth a shit. |
| 04:47.42 | WormFood | I'm not saying there aren't other WMs that work right with point-to-focus, but it is the only one I've found that works right. |
| 04:47.46 | kfogel | WormFood: basically, I always have 9 workspaces (virtual desktops, we used to call them, ahem) open, with certain set things on each one. Then I map F1-F9 to hot key to a given workspace. Basically, if I have that, and point-to-focus, and can set my background to a particular tiled image, I'm happy. |
| 04:47.51 | kfogel | WormFood: does sawfish give me that? |
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| 04:48.36 | WormFood | not sure. You could probably do it |
| 04:48.45 | kfogel | WormFood: *nod* |
| 04:48.51 | WormFood | I don't use virtual desktops. I do have dual monitors now. |
| 04:49.18 | WormFood | I can't find a work flow for multiple desktops that match me |
| 04:49.31 | WormFood | or, that matches my work style. |
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| 04:49.54 | kfogel | is away: phone |
| 04:50.10 | WormFood | and gnome 3 wants me to change my work flow....fuck them!....I want my computer to conform to me, not the other way around. |
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| 05:00.21 | Iridos | kfogel, hm... for what it's worth, I used to use fvwm2 ... mmh, with actually only one virtual dektop, but that really was a 4x8 matrix or so of actual monitor-sized screens (so for all purposes was 4x8 desktops, only it called them differently and you could still have define several desktops of that size) |
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| 05:02.08 | Iridos | only reason I gave that up was... I thought would be interesting to look what the default DM/WM in debian would look like when I had to do a fresh install for squeeze (usually only cloned&upgraded ever since installing around 2001) |
| 05:02.22 | kfogel | Iridos: so... what's the actual process by which one swaps out gnome3 (i.e., the default installed wm in debian testing right now) for a different, non-default wm? |
| 05:02.45 | kfogel | Iridos: like, there's some file in /etc or something that's setting the system default? Or would I override using a ~/ file? |
| 05:03.13 | kfogel | Iridos: I used fvwm for years... years ago. |
| 05:03.18 | Iridos | kfogel, in general: just install the wm of your choice... then it's the job of the login-manager to give you a choice (dunno how well it's doing that right now, though) |
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| 05:03.47 | WormFood | kfogel, I never could figure out how to change the WM. Hell, I can't even make sawfish work right in stable, unless I rename sawfish to metacity, then it works (I know, there are other ways, but I wanted it to work NOW) |
| 05:04.12 | WormFood | actually, I didn't rename it...I just made a symlink. |
| 05:04.48 | kfogel | Iridos: oh, as in gdm should detect my options and present them to me? Okay; I'll try that way, thanks. |
| 05:04.48 | Iridos | pretty much the only problem I had with fvwm2 was that.. I had customized the hell outta it to make it suit my needs and fancies... the default fvwm2 I found ugly and difficult to use |
| 05:04.57 | WormFood | hhhmmm....it seems like after I closed the one youtube window I had open, ff is running smoothly now. |
| 05:05.24 | kfogel | Iridos: I am happy to do _any_ amount of customization, basically, as long as I can get to where I need to be. It's just the problem with gnome3 is that a lot of the customization ability went away. |
| 05:05.28 | Iridos | kfogel, gdm should see what WMs are installed and you should have the option to choose on the login-screen |
| 05:05.32 | kfogel | WormFood: very suspicious! |
| 05:05.43 | kfogel | Iridos: gotcha, thank you. I'll start experimenting, then. |
| 05:06.22 | Iridos | kfogel, but I've not tried how well that works for squeeze... as I was determined to try the defaults :) |
| 05:06.26 | WormFood | I've had LOTS of tabs open with flash running ,before it got really slow....so for one tab to be open like that causing problems, seems wacky. (and I have another flash page open, that is working smoothly) |
| 05:06.41 | Iridos | but that's the basic idea, anyway |
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| 05:10.19 | Iridos | kfogel, just in case you want to try, this was the ~/.fvwm/.fvwm2rc I must have used last http://pastebin.com/YH75qigz (all generated menus are on right-click, the selection-of-few on left-click was handmade and only suited my personal needs |
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| 05:11.50 | Iridos | hmpf.. should have pruned a bit... actually also a lot of things probably not of use to anyone |
| 05:11.53 | Iridos | <--- lazy |
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| 05:13.27 | kfogel | Iridos: thanks! will save |
| 05:13.29 | Iridos | WormFood, clicking to change focus is stupid... how do you read stuff in one window and type it into one behind it, if clicking on the one behind it automatically raises that one in front of the one you try to read things out of? |
| 05:14.09 | Iridos | kfogel, I'd be grateful if you could refuse from telling me that it's ugly :D |
| 05:14.48 | Iridos | s/refuse/refrain/ |
| 05:15.08 | kfogel | Iridos: well, two things are being conflated there |
| 05:15.27 | kfogel | Iridos: there's click-to-focus, and click-to-auto-raise (and/or focus always auto-raises) |
| 05:15.37 | kfogel | Iridos: they are often bound together, but in theory they could be separate |
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| 05:15.43 | Iridos | yes |
| 05:15.52 | kfogel | Iridos: personally I agree with WormFood that point-to-focus is most winning |
| 05:16.00 | kfogel | Iridos: ...but learned opinion differs on this point :-). |
| 05:16.15 | kfogel | Iridos: (and click-to-raise, of course) |
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| 05:16.24 | Iridos | well... I agree... no reason to try to convert me :) |
| 05:16.39 | kfogel | .oO No, please, really, drink my Kool-Aid |
| 05:16.39 | WormFood | Iridos, that is why I'm sticking to sawfish, because it does not raise the window when I click in it. If I want to raise a window, I click on the border. I have yet to find another WM that does that right. |
| 05:17.04 | kfogel | Meanwhile, I prefer click to raise the window. If I didn't want to raise it, I'd just point, not clikc. |
| 05:17.24 | Iridos | right |
| 05:17.25 | kfogel | Gosh this feels nice; haven't had a good window manager details debate in like 10 years :-). |
| 05:17.41 | kfogel | starts digging up his .emacs in case editor comparisons are next |
| 05:17.46 | guk | im a windowmaker fan myself |
| 05:17.53 | Iridos | I think a lot of people feel disoriented if they don't need to click to change focux |
| 05:17.57 | Iridos | focus* |
| 05:18.05 | WormFood | I'm glad that I'm not the only one that thinks point-to-focus is the shit. I know it is unintuitive to new users, but hey, almost everything was at one time....once you learn how to use point-to-focus, you'll probably never want to touch click-to-focus again. |
| 05:18.41 | Iridos | I don't think I ever started having click-to-focus... ever |
| 05:18.46 | WormFood | I think most people are used to learning on Winblows and Mac, so that is what they think is normal. |
| 05:19.00 | Iridos | very possible |
| 05:19.06 | WormFood | wasn't there another system that used point-to-focus as their default? |
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| 05:19.21 | WormFood | was older mac OSes like that? |
| 05:19.26 | hosler | why is this not possible? if someone requests http://server1.hosbox.net/ it goes to computer A port 80 on my network and if someone requests http://server2.hosbox.net/ it goes to computer B port 80. all sharing the same public IP. |
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| 05:19.45 | Iridos | dunno... I started with ...well, dos, originally, but with graphical interface, irix |
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| 05:20.04 | WormFood | I started with OS-9 (nothing to do with apple) |
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| 05:20.52 | WormFood | when I first started learning Linux, I was right at home, because I used OS-9/6809 and OS-9/68000 a lot before that. |
| 05:20.57 | WormFood | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9 |
| 05:21.00 | Iridos | haha... * hosler has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))) <--- saves answering |
| 05:21.20 | WormFood | Iridos, I saw that too...I started to answer, but tab wouldn't complete his nick |
| 05:21.27 | Iridos | same here |
| 05:22.20 | Iridos | he must have cross-posted like crazy to get that result |
| 05:22.29 | WormFood | dunno |
| 05:23.06 | WormFood | he was probably just frustrated, and posted to at least 2 channels at the same time. I don't know how that works, because I don't send to multiple channels (most people don't know how to do that) |
| 05:23.38 | WormFood | I mean, I don't know what type of anti-spam techniques they're using for people that post the same thing to multiple channels within a short time. |
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| 05:24.07 | *** join/#debian molavy (~hosein@2.144.240.46) |
| 05:24.13 | molavy | hi |
| 05:24.14 | Iridos | kfogel, actually, one neat thing with my fvwm2 setup was, that I could use the mouse-wheel to scroll horizontally(?) between views on the virutal desktop (if the mouse was on the background, not on a window) and and alt-scroll to do the same vertically |
| 05:24.27 | molavy | i install debian via 8 dvd |
| 05:24.50 | WormFood | molavy, good for you! |
| 05:24.52 | Iridos | the only thing spoiling the effect was, that a different view might place the mouse-pointer on a window... which then would receive the scroll events |
| 05:24.58 | molavy | i am on remote connection and don't access |
| 05:25.03 | molavy | server |
| 05:25.13 | molavy | but i want install package |
| 05:25.23 | molavy | and it request dvd |
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| 05:25.33 | WormFood | so, enable/setup your network, and update |
| 05:25.43 | molavy | Media change: please insert the disc labeled |
| 05:25.45 | molavy | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:25.45 | molavy | in the drive '/media/cdrom/' and press enter |
| 05:25.53 | Iridos | molavy, remove the entries for the dvd from /etc/apt/sources.list |
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| 05:26.14 | molavy | thanks |
| 05:26.38 | WormFood | you can just insert a # as the first character for each line that is associated with a DVD |
| 05:26.55 | Iridos | molavy, and possibly add the ones needed for network access instead |
| 05:27.01 | Iridos | dpkg, tell molavy -about sources.list |
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| 05:29.10 | Iridos | you might want to substitute "main" in the factoid by "main non-free contrib" (non-free/contrib are not formally part of debian because they don't fulfill license requirements//depend on packages that don't fulfill license requirements for FOSS software) |
| 05:30.28 | Iridos | (see factoid from dpkg sent to you in a private message) |
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| 05:34.54 | molavy | ok, i add # at first for each dvd line ,and remove # for deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib |
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| 05:35.04 | molavy | but i can't install nmap |
| 05:35.18 | molavy | E: Unable to locate package nmap |
| 05:35.20 | WormFood | did you do an "aptitude update"? |
| 05:35.47 | molavy | ya |
| 05:37.00 | tp43 | anyone done usb install, I have an sdcard usb, will it work? |
| 05:37.23 | WormFood | tp43, sure it will work. It looks like a usb disk device. |
| 05:38.06 | WormFood | does not matter what the media is....*everything* is converted to USB....it all looks the same to the computer. As long as you have enough space, and no problems, it will work. |
| 05:38.08 | tp43 | WormFood, thats what I thought |
| 05:38.27 | Lasers | I have a trivial issue that I'd like to try tackling on. Debian Squeeze running XBMC. Autologin via mingetty --> .bash_profile (startx) --> exec xbmc. XBMC can't shut down accordingly to timer and such. |
| 05:38.37 | WormFood | there is a lot of myths and misinformation and buggy bioses on the subject of USB and booting from USB |
| 05:38.41 | simonlnu | molavy: um, is that the only line you have in sources.list? |
| 05:39.04 | tp43 | WormFood, i have enough space, but my issue is about damnsmalllinux, aparently that is the dirtro you use, but then later, I don't want any restrictions to 50mb, I wanna install tons of stuff after at my leisure |
| 05:39.38 | WormFood | this is the #debian channel. We don't provide support for other distros |
| 05:39.57 | WormFood | there are docs on installing debian from usb. It is also trivial. |
| 05:39.59 | tp43 | WormFood, hmmm, I am thinking I better not take the risk, cause i only have one computer, and its cdrom is broken, so if i screw up, then I out of a computer |
| 05:40.14 | WormFood | how big is your usb? |
| 05:40.24 | tp43 | WormFood, yeah, thats what I am talking, damnsmalllinux is a debian distro for installing from usb |
| 05:40.27 | tp43 | WormFood, 2gig |
| 05:40.36 | WormFood | you only have one usb? |
| 05:40.39 | tp43 | http://wiki.debian.org/BootUsb |
| 05:40.52 | WormFood | damnsmalllinux != debian |
| 05:41.01 | WormFood | ubuntu is not debian |
| 05:41.05 | tp43 | WormFood, how many do I need? I only have one sdcard adapter for usb |
| 05:41.06 | simonlnu | no it is not a debian distro. geez. i wish people would learn "like debian" doesn't "is debian" |
| 05:41.21 | simonlnu | doesn't mean*. sorry, tired. |
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| 05:42.00 | WormFood | well, I was thinking, if you have two, I'd suggest you install knoppix to one (the CD version, unless you have a 4 gig flash)...then you'll have something that you can use for recovery, if something bad happens |
| 05:42.13 | tp43 | the debian wiki says to use damnsmalllinux I thought, |
| 05:42.39 | WormFood | also tp43. I installed Linux on a computer, without using usb or cd or another hard drive....I booted and installed over the network. |
| 05:42.39 | simonlnu | note those pages are edited by users. |
| 05:42.44 | molavy | no it has one for security repo too |
| 05:42.47 | simonlnu | tp43: ^^ |
| 05:42.57 | tp43 | WormFood, yeah, but my laptop doesn't have floppy either |
| 05:43.06 | WormFood | neither does my computer |
| 05:43.08 | tp43 | WormFood, I don't think they have floppy these days |
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| 05:43.13 | rypervenche | tp43: Why is it you are trying to install damnsmalllinux instead of Debian? |
| 05:43.24 | tp43 | simonlnu, is there an official debian instruction for usb installation? |
| 05:43.26 | simonlnu | molavy: that's not enough. you also need a main one too. /msg dpkg sources.list (in here) |
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| 05:43.33 | WormFood | sure they do. You think someone gathered up all the floppies and destroyed them? :P ;) |
| 05:43.36 | simonlnu | yes the install guide |
| 05:44.08 | tp43 | I wish to install Debian, but some instruction mentioned to use damnsmalllinux to get it started for the case of usb boot instal |
| 05:44.24 | tp43 | Ok lets forget about damnsmalllinux, I want to install debian |
| 05:44.33 | WormFood | another thing you can do, with your usb, is to use something like syslinux to make it boot multiple setups....like knoppix CD AND the debian installer. |
| 05:44.35 | simonlnu | i'm not saying the wiki is shit, i'm saying take things with caution, like all info. |
| 05:44.39 | rypervenche | tp43: Nonsense. Just install the ISO to a USB drive, then boot it up as if it were a CD and do the same as you would a normal installation. |
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| 05:45.02 | simonlnu | !usb install |
| 05:45.03 | WormFood | that is, assuming your computer can boot that way. |
| 05:45.03 | dpkg | You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch04s03 and ask me about <install debian> for hybrid CD/DVD images. https://launchpad.net/win32-image-writer/+download to prepare from Windows. BIOS can't boot from USB? Use http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager.html |
| 05:45.11 | tp43 | rypervenche, I see, so download cd1, and copy that usb |
| 05:45.19 | simonlnu | tp43: ^^^ |
| 05:45.23 | rypervenche | tp43: Do you have an Internet connection to the computer? |
| 05:45.31 | tp43 | rypervenche, yes |
| 05:45.33 | molavy | dpkg,-about extra repo |
| 05:45.35 | dpkg | molavy: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 05:45.39 | rypervenche | tp43: I personally prefer to do a netinstall |
| 05:45.50 | simonlnu | molavy: /msg dpkg extra repo |
| 05:45.54 | rypervenche | tp43: That way I only install what I want and nothing else. |
| 05:46.01 | molavy | i don't know too |
| 05:46.14 | simonlnu | molavy: you type that here |
| 05:46.17 | tp43 | rypervenche, me too actually, I am only struggling with burning the iso to usb and checking if my usb supports usb boot. I have a IBM thinkpad |
| 05:46.28 | simonlnu | /msg dpkg extra repo |
| 05:46.32 | simonlnu | like that |
| 05:46.35 | molavy | dpkg extra repo |
| 05:46.37 | dpkg | molavy: wish i knew |
| 05:46.53 | rypervenche | tp43: You have a few options for getting the ISO on the USB drive. One is "unetbootin", which is in your repositories. |
| 05:47.01 | simonlnu | molavy: it doesn't have that |
| 05:47.15 | molavy | simonlnu, i use pidgin |
| 05:47.19 | WormFood | tp43, bring your computer over to my house. We'll boot it over the network. You select debian from the menu, and it installs over the network. My caching proxy should have most of the packages you need, so it will be fast. ;) |
| 05:47.43 | molavy | how can use irc channels on text mode |
| 05:47.53 | simonlnu | molavy: doesn't matter. |
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| 05:48.50 | WormFood | tp43, the thinkpad T30 supports booting from USB. Mine died, and don't know if it would boot an iso image on the usb |
| 05:51.13 | tp43 | there should be a way to boot the debian installer from within ubuntu |
| 05:51.40 | WormFood | I don't think it is gonna work the way you think |
| 05:51.51 | WormFood | is ubuntu what is currently installed now? |
| 05:52.00 | tp43 | I have ubuntu and windows |
| 05:52.21 | tp43 | what if I copied cd1 to my windows partition, and booted it? |
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| 05:52.29 | roue | hola |
| 05:52.32 | rypervenche | tp43: Doesn't work that way. |
| 05:52.33 | WormFood | hahaha...does not work like that |
| 05:52.42 | rypervenche | tp43: Maybe you installed Ubuntu using Wubi... |
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| 05:52.48 | WormFood | it would be nice if it did...and you can make it work that way |
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| 05:53.12 | roue | I just installed kexec-tools (squeeze) and "shutdown -r now" is booting into the wrong kernel. How does it decide which one to use? thanks. |
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| 05:53.52 | tp43 | what if I format the windows partition, create a new debian one using gparted, and then... |
| 05:53.58 | WormFood | tp43, do this...install debian to your usb, and boot from it....you will get way into it, before you get to a point where you can't back out. You will be able to tell that it is working right, before you do anything and make your computer unbootable. |
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| 05:54.54 | tp43 | WormFood, but your ibm laptop did't boot from usb you said? |
| 05:55.04 | WormFood | where did I say that? |
| 05:55.36 | WormFood | I said the exact opposite of that. |
| 05:55.46 | rypervenche | tp43: Give it a shot and then you can do everything from the Debian installer. |
| 05:56.17 | tp43 | WormFood, oh, thats right, hehe, must be dislexic |
| 05:56.26 | WormFood | I said I don't know if booting from an ISO image written to the USB will work. |
| 05:56.46 | kfogel | WormFood, tp43: I have done that with a ThinkPad 420s and an X220. |
| 05:57.09 | molavy | dpkg is really stupid , (maybe am i),it return: I don't know, could you explain it? or wish i knew , so i will Google it , thanks any way |
| 05:57.10 | dpkg | You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, molavy |
| 05:57.10 | kfogel | Just dd the iso image to the USB stick and boot, IIRC. |
| 05:57.12 | tp43 | kfogel, you booted from usb? Did you have to enable anything in the bios or doesn |
| 05:57.15 | WormFood | also the T43 has a pop-out DVD drive. It is trivial to drop another drive into it (you do have to screw on the little rails that are specific to thinkpad) |
| 05:57.21 | tp43 | kfogel, or doesn't work by default? |
| 05:57.24 | kfogel | tp43: yes, I hink I had to enable USB FDD boot from BIOS |
| 05:57.33 | WormFood | I'm sure it works on my T500, but I haven't tried it. |
| 05:57.35 | kfogel | tp43: press blue ThinkVantage button during early boot to get into BIOS |
| 05:57.47 | WormFood | F1 to get into the bios |
| 05:57.57 | kfogel | tp43: F1 works too yeah |
| 05:58.12 | WormFood | if you press the thinkvantage button...then you need to press F1 again anyways ;) |
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| 05:58.24 | tp43 | ok, when I am in bios, just look around, I should find it? or do you have any advice? |
| 05:58.25 | kfogel | is away: phone |
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| 05:59.01 | kfogel | tp43: "startup" menu i think |
| 05:59.18 | WormFood | sounds right |
| 05:59.20 | tp43 | ok guys, be back in a few minutes |
| 05:59.30 | WormFood | wherever you adjust the boot drive settings and the like |
| 06:00.20 | tp43 | You know, before I go, I'd like to mention. If I use gparted, to resize my windows partition and create an ext partition, and copy debian cd1 there, can't I configure grub to boot it? |
| 06:00.54 | WormFood | I'm pretty sure it isn't gonna work that way |
| 06:01.08 | WormFood | in addition, you don't need the whole CD, you just need the network install, which is small |
| 06:01.12 | tp43 | WormFood, yeah, cause then I will want to delete the partition I am botted on |
| 06:01.21 | WormFood | the file I downloaded to install debian was under 10 meg |
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| 06:01.54 | tp43 | WormFood, thats the floppy netinstall probably, but cd net install is like 200mb |
| 06:01.55 | WormFood | that is why I said, to make your usb boot the debian installer....you can make that work 100% before you do anything to your hard drive |
| 06:02.10 | tp43 | my laptop does't have floppy dirve |
| 06:02.13 | kfogel | tp43, WormFood: off for the night. tp43, good luck; if you don't get it going, I'll be on tomorrow, and I've recently been installing Debian on different ThinkPads via USB, so I'd be happy to help then if needed. |
| 06:02.15 | WormFood | so what |
| 06:02.20 | WormFood | floppy does not matter |
| 06:02.30 | WormFood | my T30 is older, and it didn't have a floppy either |
| 06:02.38 | tp43 | I am gonna make the usb first |
| 06:02.43 | WormFood | computers do not come with floppy drives anymore |
| 06:02.48 | WormFood | that is what I just said. |
| 06:02.55 | WormFood | make the usb boot debian installer |
| 06:02.59 | hell | hello. what package respond for NetworkManager polkit rules? My nm is unable to edit anything under user, but both polkit installed and user is in netdev group... |
| 06:03.22 | WormFood | after that works, and you can connect to the network with it, then you're good to go for erasing your hard drive....you'll always have the USB you can boot from |
| 06:03.44 | hell | apt-file search /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.pkla returns nothing |
| 06:03.59 | WormFood | uninstall networkmangler |
| 06:04.49 | hell | there is nothing about wi-fi manager, except this crap. |
| 06:05.19 | hell | i'm too lazy to do it by /dev/hands |
| 06:05.42 | WormFood | manual wifi setup isn't too hard...annoying, but not hard |
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| 06:07.22 | hell | WormFood: "say it to my mom" (c) ;-) |
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| 06:08.05 | WormFood | ok, she'll be here in a few hours. |
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| 06:17.11 | Lasers | I believe I found a Gnome3 bug. What's the proper route to report bugs in debian-testing? |
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| 06:17.33 | Lasers | !bugs |
| 06:17.35 | dpkg | error: could not parse |
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| 06:17.54 | simonlnu | !reportbug |
| 06:17.54 | dpkg | reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. Or on the web, http://www.debian.org/Bugs/, or see http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting |
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| 06:21.18 | dimitri7 | hi everyone, how can I chart ICMP time responses?? Thanks. |
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| 06:23.37 | dimitri7 | no? |
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| 06:30.10 | simonlnu | people are afk or busy. |
| 06:30.33 | simonlnu | maybe you could try google. me, i'd use ping or fping ^_^ |
| 06:30.43 | dimitri7 | fping? |
| 06:30.54 | dimitri7 | ok |
| 06:30.55 | simonlnu | but i suppose you want some fancy little thing like ntop or such |
| 06:30.56 | dimitri7 | let me see |
| 06:31.24 | dimitri7 | mm something that looks good |
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| 06:34.48 | simonlnu | be careful with that, it has (/used to have?) memory issues |
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| 06:39.59 | dimitri7 | memory issues? |
| 06:40.00 | dimitri7 | like what? |
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| 06:44.44 | simonlnu | it used to get bloated after a while of running. i heard that it's being worked on, or been resolved. |
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| 06:45.45 | simonlnu | beyond expected memory usage incrase of course, not caching, in-memory data storage, etc. |
| 06:45.51 | simonlnu | increase* |
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| 06:48.20 | dimitri7 | simonlnu: ohh I see. I am going to try it anyway. Do you know a easy to use tool to do graphs? |
| 06:48.28 | dimitri7 | not too complicated as gnuplot :S |
| 06:49.09 | simonlnu | it does graphs (wah, dyslexia moment there, i was about to type "phagr" |
| 06:49.14 | simonlnu | ) |
| 06:50.11 | simonlnu | (technically a spoonerism) |
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| 06:52.10 | dimitri7 | hehe, all right |
| 06:53.24 | dimitri7 | phagr? |
| 06:53.33 | dimitri7 | google shows no results about it |
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| 06:53.58 | Vasistha | it is a dyslexic spelling, as he explained :) |
| 06:54.39 | Vasistha | maybe you would prefer hparg, but there is something neat about phagr |
| 06:55.09 | dimitri7 | yeah it is at the moment of speaking but not when typing. |
| 06:55.40 | dimitri7 | graphs |
| 06:55.47 | dimitri7 | is that the name of the software? |
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| 06:56.05 | dimitri7 | I need something different |
| 06:56.29 | dimitri7 | ok I now see |
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| 07:32.40 | tp43 | my screen is way too bright, how do I do a kernel upgrade using backports? |
| 07:33.47 | WormFood | there are some thinkpad specific packages you may want to install |
| 07:34.05 | tp43 | WormFood, oh yeah? |
| 07:34.08 | WormFood | I'm about to walk out the house now, so I can't help any more until I get back |
| 07:34.27 | tp43 | can you recommend a terminal first, cause the one I have is too small fonts |
| 07:34.45 | WormFood | I use gnome-terminal |
| 07:34.53 | WormFood | you can adjust the font size in that |
| 07:35.03 | tp43 | ok, thanks |
| 07:35.09 | tp43 | see ya later |
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| 07:36.58 | WormFood | 再见 |
| 07:37.46 | tp43 | my laptop is gotten noisy again, ubuntu 10 noisy but fast, and the ubuntu was quite but slow |
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| 07:41.30 | tensorpudding | tp43, the choice of distro won't change it |
| 07:41.45 | tensorpudding | if your computer is under load it will sound the same |
| 07:42.28 | tp43 | tensorpudding, well, there was a rattling noise, I used to hear with Ubuntu 10 that stopped with 11, but I haven't heard it yet with debian |
| 07:42.40 | tp43 | But I having a screen brightness issue |
| 07:42.45 | tensorpudding | odd? |
| 07:42.53 | tp43 | i read somewhere, someone installed backports kernel, and it got fixed |
| 07:43.10 | tp43 | http://ra.khe.sh/computers/linux/debian/debian-lxde-hibernate-etc.html |
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| 07:57.02 | koko_ | hello |
| 07:57.20 | koko_ | how can i install jack audio kit on my squeeze |
| 07:57.30 | koko_ | i can(t find it on depot |
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| 08:08.28 | babilen | koko_: You want the "jackd" package. |
| 08:10.04 | koko_ | babilen : yes |
| 08:10.42 | koko_ | babilen : when i make apt-get install jackd2 i can't get it |
| 08:10.55 | babilen | koko_: So, install it with, for example "apt-get install jackd" |
| 08:12.13 | babilen | Oh, jackd2 -- Sure, you can install that as well. Something is wrong if you can not install it. Please paste your sources.list and the output of "apt-cache policy ; apt-cache policy jackd2" to http://paste.debian.net |
| 08:12.35 | koko_ | babilen : i already download from http://jackaudio.org/ but when i do jackd -d alsa i get unknown driver "alsa" |
| 08:13.18 | babilen | *shrug* I've never used jackd, but you should be able to install it from the repositories. |
| 08:13.32 | koko_ | babilen : ok |
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| 08:17.32 | koko_ | babilen : http://paste.debian.net/149453/ |
| 08:18.27 | koko_ | babilen : it's for apt-cache policy |
| 08:18.50 | babilen | koko_: Yeah, you are missing the online repositories. (You did not configure networking during the installation) |
| 08:19.40 | koko_ | babilen : i installed |
| 08:20.00 | koko_ | babilen : because i am online on this desktop |
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| 08:21.09 | koko_ | babilen : and sources.list i have deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.3 _Squeeze_ - Official amd64 DVD Binary-1 20111008-14:36]/ squeeze contrib main |
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| 08:22.24 | babilen | koko_: Use http://paste.debian.net/149455/ in lieu of your current sources.list (assuming you are in France), run "apt-get update" and you should be done. Do not forget to install updates (apt-get dist-upgrade) |
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| 08:22.38 | babilen | koko_: Or just "apt-get upgrade" :) |
| 08:22.56 | koko_ | babilen : ok thanks |
| 08:23.07 | koko_ | babilen : i am trying now |
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| 08:23.23 | babilen | koko_: Sure, let me know if you run into problems. |
| 08:23.48 | koko_ | babilen : no problem but i have 8 dvd of debian |
| 08:24.04 | koko_ | babilen : it's no good for use it ? |
| 08:24.19 | babilen | koko_: You don't really need them if you have a working internet connection. |
| 08:24.52 | koko_ | babilen : wow ;-) i mount all on 8 dvd |
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| 08:27.06 | koko_ | babilen : but tell i also download jack from jackaudio.com , how can i remove it ? |
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| 08:27.07 | babilen | koko_: If your internet connection is working you can use the "netinstall" or "businesscard" images to install Debian. Both with download necessary components and packages from the internet. The complete DVD set is really only needed if you live/travel/work somewhere with no or very slow internet connection. They also contain no packages from contrib/non-free |
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| 08:27.22 | koko_ | babilen : or if i update it could be fine ? |
| 08:27.23 | babilen | koko_: How did you install it and where? |
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| 08:27.52 | babilen | *both will |
| 08:28.07 | koko_ | babilen : ./waf configure & ./waf --prefix /usr and ./waf install |
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| 08:28.33 | babilen | aaaah! |
| 08:29.39 | babilen | koko_: Do *not* install to /usr ever, but always to /usr/local *ever* -- Lets hope that you did not overwrite something important and that "waf" can uninstall jack. "./waf uninstall" maybe? |
| 08:29.49 | koko_ | babilen : my connection here is slow so dvd is important for me |
| 08:30.26 | koko_ | babilen : ohhhhhhhhh |
| 08:30.37 | babilen | koko_: Ok, in that case you have to add *all* eight DVDs to your sources.list -- This is most easily done with "apt-cdrom add" |
| 08:31.26 | koko_ | babilen : ok |
| 08:32.02 | koko_ | babilen : ./waf uninstall it's ok |
| 08:32.08 | babilen | *phew |
| 08:32.10 | babilen | * |
| 08:32.57 | koko_ | babilen : i use dvd or i use internet sources |
| 08:33.29 | NiLon | internet is usually more up to date |
| 08:33.55 | babilen | That really is up to you -- If your internet connection is so abysmally slow that you cannot use it I would suggest to stick with the DVDs. |
| 08:33.58 | NiLon | so if there's no reason to use dvd, use internet |
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| 08:35.32 | babilen | As your DVDs do no receive updates it makes sense to at least include squeeze/updates in the sources.list -- I would just completely use internet mirrors, but my internet connection is quite fast. |
| 08:36.38 | koko_ | ok thanks |
| 08:36.46 | babilen | No problem, enjoy! |
| 08:37.20 | koko_ | i am making update on internet |
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| 08:37.49 | koko_ | after i can install jack with only apt-get install jackd2 ? |
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| 08:39.35 | janis | hi guys! I am using the new testing packages, that use /run as tmpfs and /var/lock as links to /run/lock, /dev/shm linked to /run/shm too. At which point should the subdirs lock and shm be created within /run? This stage does not happen and I end up with errors like: aptitude: cannot lock file -2 File does not exist (or something like this) |
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| 08:41.30 | ompaul | janis: what new testing packages ... version of debian and so forth for the rest of the people here plesae |
| 08:43.58 | janis | Right, so, I am using wheezy, and yesterday made an update of about 300 packages, whose identity I don't know how to pinpoint. I guess though what made the difference was probably initscripts os sysv* |
| 08:44.26 | janis | I thought it was a common problem.. |
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| 08:44.42 | ompaul | janis: you did an update - did you dist-upgrade? |
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| 08:45.22 | tp43 | I had ubuntu for ages and my screen stopped working, I assumed it was hardware, but now that I installed debian, it works fine |
| 08:45.49 | janis | I updated all new packages available after an apt-get update, so I guess, yes? It's the same, right? |
| 08:46.01 | fender0107401 | who know how to install geshi for mediawiki in debian? |
| 08:46.33 | mjt | janis: did you reboot the system? |
| 08:46.55 | mjt | janis: i mean, does it happen after reboot or just after install? |
| 08:47.47 | janis | btw, ompaul, If I remember correctly, the update process was stopped and then I dpkg --configure -a and reinstalled... (I actually killed dpkg with TERM) |
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| 08:48.33 | ompaul | janis: in a case like that I suggest you install stable |
| 08:48.54 | janis | mjt, It happens after every reboot now, I just have to make the subdirs /run/{lock,shm} and everyything works fine |
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| 08:49.42 | ompaul | janis: killing the program running dpkg you kind of promised yourself a broken system and testing is having some fun at this time |
| 08:49.47 | mjt | janis: is /etc/init.d/mountkernfs.sh.dpkg-new exist? |
| 08:50.05 | mjt | ompaul: dpkg has all possible mechanisms enabled to prevent that |
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| 08:51.39 | nsadmin | if you kill while aptitude is downloading, you're ok... if you kill while it's actually installing the package, that will damage things |
| 08:52.03 | ompaul | mjt: I suspect a broken upgrade and apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade and maybe an upgrade not dist-upgrade was done however we have not found that out |
| 08:52.03 | mjt | i mean, dpkg will be able to roll back or forward stuff after such termination |
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| 08:52.37 | janis | ompaul, mjt I did some weird stuff with the system actually... ( I removed every /etc/init.d/mount*, then dpkg -r --force-all initscripts, then reinstalled initscripts, which would fail to setup, so I copied mount* from a stable distro on some squeeze system I own and reinstalled initscripts successfully) |
| 08:52.46 | nsadmin | dpkg cannot roll back in nontrivial cases |
| 08:52.47 | dpkg | nsadmin: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 08:52.49 | janis | so I guess I should go with ompaul's solution |
| 08:52.50 | mjt | so far the most likely explanation is not updated /etc/init.d/mountkernfs.sh (which is supposed to create the directories) because it was locally modified |
| 08:53.15 | mjt | (which has nothing to do with interrupted dpkg) |
| 08:53.49 | mjt | heh |
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| 08:53.52 | janis | It would be swell if I could avoit reinstall though... |
| 08:54.01 | janis | avoid* |
| 08:54.06 | ompaul | janis: it might be faster if you did a clean install |
| 08:54.09 | nsadmin | mjt, a hash was run across the file and later prevented it from running? |
| 08:54.45 | nsadmin | janis, how long ago did you install this one? |
| 08:55.01 | ompaul | janis: if you know you did some "strange things" I guess you won't bother doing them again :) |
| 08:55.06 | janis | ompaul, Is there a way to reinstall debian/stable and keep certain configurations carried from my current system? |
| 08:55.14 | mjt | janis: thats the way to have your situation: to copy init.d/mount* from previous release :) |
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| 08:55.59 | janis | mjt, The problem was still present before I copied, It was my (not-thinking) way of solving it |
| 08:56.02 | mjt | in that case you can just extract the initscripts.deb into you rsystem |
| 08:56.14 | janis | nsadmin, all happened within last 24 hrs |
| 08:56.23 | mjt | dpkg -x /var/cache/apt/archives/initscr...deb / ;) |
| 08:56.24 | dpkg | mjt: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 08:56.24 | janis | mjt, let me try that |
| 08:56.47 | nsadmin | oh ok, so other than these configs you have no original material on the machine? |
| 08:56.49 | mjt | runs away and hides |
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| 08:57.28 | mjt | dpkg --force-help |
| 08:57.29 | dpkg | mjt: I give up, what is it? |
| 08:57.32 | mjt | heh |
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| 08:57.48 | nsadmin | dpkg, it is what it is |
| 08:57.49 | dpkg | nsadmin: what are you talking about? |
| 08:58.06 | nsadmin | dpkg: it |
| 08:58.07 | dpkg | Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help. |
| 08:58.26 | janis | ompaul, I trusted dpkg would manage to recover. It has happened before :) (I was doing some even more strange stuff in the first place. I was updating the system from the squeeze nfs-server running a chrooted aptitude to the nfs-root of my wheezy) |
| 08:58.45 | janis | mjt, no, its a PEBCAK |
| 08:58.55 | ompaul | janis: updating and modifications don't do hand in hand |
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| 08:59.07 | nsadmin | janis, one thing you could try, is installing the packages again |
| 08:59.18 | nsadmin | using dpkg |
| 08:59.21 | mjt | janis: --force-all wont reinstall modified/deleted conffiles |
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| 09:00.03 | molavy | hi |
| 09:00.06 | molavy | i use HP ProLiant ML150 G5 Server |
| 09:00.07 | mjt | janis: because there are --force-confnew and --force-confold, and also --force-confdef and --force-confmiss, so hell knows how dpkg will handle all these force-* together :) |
| 09:00.29 | janis | hm.. guys!? It works! thanks! |
| 09:00.43 | janis | I did a bunch of things... |
| 09:00.53 | molavy | but there is solution about vga card on debian 6.0.3 |
| 09:00.55 | ompaul | janis: however you don't know if it is working right yet |
| 09:01.02 | molavy | is there? |
| 09:01.02 | mjt | janis: so for real fix, you have to choose the right --force, like --force-confnew --force-confmiss |
| 09:01.13 | janis | ompaul, should I still try a clean install? (With the thinking that there may be strange leftovers from my dirty picking) |
| 09:01.34 | ompaul | janis: it's your call, if I was handed your machine to use, I would. |
| 09:01.38 | molavy | i have lots googling without success |
| 09:02.00 | mjt | molavy: as you know, everyone else in the world also uses exactly the same SERVER at home and knows perfectly which hardware (in particular, vga card) it has... |
| 09:02.23 | janis | ompaul, i see.. So what would you do to save all your configuration? a) re-setup? 2) copy /etc files? 3) some more elegant way? |
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| 09:02.54 | molavy | whats that mean? |
| 09:03.02 | ompaul | janis: well given I'd do a clean install, I'd do the configs from new (with the old ones kept for reference but not installing) |
| 09:03.08 | molavy | is there any vga driver |
| 09:03.44 | mjt | molavy: it's a hint for you to provide some more details about your system. i for one have no idea which hardware is in your machine |
| 09:03.56 | janis | ok ompaul, thanks! (thanks mjt, too!) I will do as you proposed once I'm finished with my work today :). bye guys!! thanks again! |
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| 09:04.01 | mjt | molavy: so, naturally, can't say which driver it needs. |
| 09:04.16 | mjt | janis: you're welcome |
| 09:04.16 | nsadmin | molavy, lspci -nn | grep -i vga |
| 09:05.04 | molavy | http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DriverDownload.jsp?prodNameId=3580646&lang=en&cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=15351&prodSeriesId=3580609 |
| 09:05.05 | molavy | 08:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA G200e [Pilot] ServerEngines (SEP1) [102b:0522] (rev 02) |
| 09:05.23 | nsadmin | , pciid [102b:0522] |
| 09:05.24 | judd | [102b:0522] is 'MGA G200e [Pilot] ServerEngines (SEP1)' from 'Matrox Graphics, Inc.' with no known kernel module in squeeze or in sid. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=102b:0522 |
| 09:05.51 | nsadmin | hmm |
| 09:06.47 | nsadmin | in the past matrox was not known for their selflessness with chipset info |
| 09:07.43 | molavy | at this page reported works? yes |
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| 09:08.14 | nsadmin | what driver does it say it needs? |
| 09:08.33 | molavy | but when i use background screen picture load in 4 second |
| 09:09.47 | nsadmin | is this a problem? if so, which part? |
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| 09:09.57 | molavy | how can i find driver really installed |
| 09:09.59 | molavy | ? |
| 09:10.29 | nsadmin | you can find the driver that's actually used by looking at the x log |
| 09:11.20 | nsadmin | should be one of /var/log/X* |
| 09:11.58 | mjt | it isn't trivial to parse that log to find real driver in use :) Because it loads vesa and fb drivers and unloads some |
| 09:12.27 | mjt | is there a way to query that info at runtime? xdpyinfo? |
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| 09:13.23 | mjt | um, no, only glxinfo which, in this case, is useless. |
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| 09:17.10 | molavy | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:17.10 | molavy | xdpyinfo: unable to open display "". |
| 09:17.19 | molavy | http://dpaste.org/FYcwf/ |
| 09:19.08 | molavy | there is another problem too, when i login via vnc |
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| 09:19.36 | molavy | black screen with just mouse cursor display |
| 09:20.08 | molavy | i use vino |
| 09:22.40 | molavy | any idea? |
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| 09:22.44 | TiMiDo | on? |
| 09:22.58 | molavy | black screen on vnc |
| 09:23.18 | TiMiDo | could it be that your logged in to a tty1 terminal |
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| 09:23.23 | TiMiDo | ? |
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| 09:24.11 | molavy | i see mouse cursor like graphical |
| 09:24.42 | TiMiDo | you can still enable your mouse cursor, in your ttys terminals |
| 09:24.57 | TiMiDo | check your configs |
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| 09:26.20 | molavy | when move mouse it move ,and i see when i random click on screen mouse change to text cursor or pointer cursor ,that mean i open textarea app |
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| 09:27.50 | molavy | i am sure i am in graphical mode |
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| 09:28.14 | TiMiDo | oh ok |
| 09:29.37 | molavy | so, no idea? |
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| 09:31.55 | mjt | molavy: so your X already uses the right driver (mga) |
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| 09:33.21 | mjt | molavy: you may lower screen resolution to, say, 1024x768, to use higher refresh rate (75Hz) |
| 09:34.49 | mjt | molavy: (this can be done with xrandr after X is loaded) |
| 09:35.17 | gnugr | molavy: check with "apt-cache policy xauth" if you got it |
| 09:35.17 | molavy | thanks ,i will check it, what is your idea about black screen on vnc using vino |
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| 09:46.01 | mjt | does anyone have expirience with lightdm and especially its vnc server? After enabling VNC in lightdm it asks for a password on connect, but I've no idea whos password it wants... |
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| 10:15.11 | ICBM | Should I replace my existing Ubuntu installation with Debian 6.0.3? |
| 10:16.01 | Vasistha | ICBM: if you like. why do you want to? |
| 10:16.16 | Vasistha | ICBM: I guess I can give you a little more encouraging words than that :) |
| 10:16.20 | Vasistha | !tell ICBM about why debian |
| 10:16.30 | joltcan | Vasistha: are you using it as a desktop system where you run a lot of latest-n-greatest programs? |
| 10:16.42 | Vasistha | joltcan: define latest-n-greatest |
| 10:17.00 | Vasistha | actually, you don't have to, the answer is no |
| 10:17.01 | joltcan | Vasistha: Then continue to run ubuntu, they upgrade way more frequently |
| 10:17.16 | joltcan | oh, I miexed you up, sorry |
| 10:17.17 | ICBM | I am eager to try out Debian. Ubuntu is buggy. |
| 10:17.23 | Vasistha | joltcan: wait ... you want to be telling ICBM ... your nick is the same color as his :) |
| 10:17.36 | joltcan | ICBM: Yes, then you should definitely try debian |
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| 10:21.23 | ICBM | Does installing Grub from Debian automatically detect other GNU/Linux, Windows systems on other partitions, and create boot menu entries for them? |
| 10:22.13 | acemi | grub2 does with os-prober |
| 10:22.15 | joltcan | ICBM: I think so, but it was to long ago that I hade a multiboot system |
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| 10:32.37 | ICBM | has the 6.0.3 DVD-binary 1 ready |
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| 10:33.07 | Vasistha | ICBM: I usually just use the 180 MB netinstall disc |
| 10:33.35 | Vasistha | ICBM: I probably am not going to end up needing 80-90% of what's on that dvd anyway |
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| 10:36.00 | ICBM | yes, it has 3865 packages |
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| 10:38.14 | martinarielhartm | hi, I installed squeeze (using netinst cd) but did not setup any network information. So now it boots to the console. I guess I am doing something wrong? |
| 10:39.03 | ICBM | :) |
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| 10:40.15 | martinarielhartm | ICBM: any solution? |
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| 10:41.20 | Lasers | martinarielhartm: He's new. Don't mind the smile! :) |
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| 10:41.37 | ICBM | try to connect to the Debian repository and download & install a graphical desktop environment |
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| 10:42.53 | martinarielhartm | so how can I do this ICBM? |
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| 10:44.39 | scoobertron | I am having some trouble with hibernating. The box goes down without errors, but just reboots as normal. My swap partition is recognised and there is nothing in the boot log. Does anyone have any good ideas for troubleshooting, I don't really know where to start. |
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| 10:47.54 | ukl | hello #debian. Is "unattended-upgrade" combined with a personal apt repository for small system configuration tasks a viable remote-administration solution? |
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| 10:48.52 | ukl | a la "oh noes, the telephone call just revealed I forgot to add this user to group xyz so something fails, I'll just create a deb files that fixes it the next time the machine upgrades itself" |
| 10:49.15 | aguitel | is razorqt running in debian _ |
| 10:49.15 | antivirtel | good day! I'm going to buy a Lenovo ThinkPad Edge E525 with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 6470M GPU. The problem is, that there are bad feedback for the Linux driver... Can I ask if there is an working (open source) driver? Or can someone confirm that this is problematic? |
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| 10:50.52 | sephii | antivirtel: I always had problems with ATI cards on Linux so I avoid them as much as possible. But on the other hand, they're at least trying to open their drivers, as opposed to nvidia... |
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| 10:52.38 | kresp0 | now I've to do a migration from a amd64 system to a 32bit one cause the nvidia closed vdpau driver is unstable on 64bits but works ok on 32bits (same computer) |
| 10:53.10 | antivirtel | sephii thanks, I heared about the problems, but I cant find a same config with other chips, I really want this one ... the only question is, will this go correctly without any big problem (like black flashing lines after boot, slow window managing)? (I don't really want to use 3D graphics) Has someone got any expirience? |
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| 10:53.35 | jelly-homed | antivirtel: ati is routinely problematic on linux. |
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| 10:54.28 | kresp0 | antivirtel: if you dont need 3D nor video aceleration , I recommend to use a nvidia card with opensource drivers or a intel one |
| 10:54.30 | jelly-homed | hell I've had about the same amount, or more problems with intel than with nvidia |
| 10:54.39 | antivirtel | but jelly-homed could it fix after some day suc*ing? :) |
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| 10:54.50 | jelly-homed | antivirtel: don't count on it |
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| 10:55.27 | jelly-homed | if you're buying new hardware for Linux, an ATI card is not a smart choice |
| 10:56.04 | kresp0 | jelly-homed: except if you want to make bitcoins :) |
| 10:56.24 | jelly-homed | (where smart correlates with "minimum amount of time spent to have stable graphics") |
| 10:56.59 | jelly-homed | kresp0: but this is a laptop |
| 10:57.22 | antivirtel | yes jelly-homed I heared about it... is it happend in the past, that an ATI card couldn't be used? |
| 10:57.49 | kresp0 | oh, i didnt know that. thanks jelly-homed |
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| 10:58.05 | jelly-homed | antivirtel: it's not that it "can't be used", it's that you're going to waste time when things break, or get frustrated with small bugs |
| 10:58.32 | jelly-homed | kresp0: uh... "<antivirtel> good day! I'm going to buy a Lenovo ThinkPad Edge [...]" |
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| 10:59.06 | jelly-homed | and ATI _Mobility_ Radeon |
| 10:59.20 | antivirtel | and jelly-homed aren't they fixed by the time? |
| 10:59.25 | kresp0 | jelly-homed: i think that i join this channel just a moment after that :P |
| 11:00.36 | jelly-homed | antivirtel: in my experience, free (open source) drivers have frequent regressions and features that work now might break in six months time again |
| 11:01.15 | mikey | that's a very optimistic point of view. |
| 11:01.17 | antivirtel | ah, so they are very unrelyable jelly-homed |
| 11:01.44 | mikey | my AHCI driver hasn't ever failed me. |
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| 11:02.00 | jelly-homed | mikey: the context is GPU drivers |
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| 11:02.20 | mikey | Just make sure to reinstall the driver when you upgrade your kernel. |
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| 11:02.50 | jelly-homed | free drivers don't need reinstallation, mikey |
| 11:03.11 | mikey | It really depends on if they are included with the baseline kernel. |
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| 11:03.52 | jelly-homed | the kernel bits just provide memory management and mode switching help |
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| 11:04.35 | mikey | Then how do you explain the need to recreate initrd any time the kernel is upgraded? |
| 11:05.19 | jelly-homed | the boot process uses initrd. |
| 11:05.26 | antivirtel | then jelly-homed I might buy this one, and suffer from pain :D - If I buy an IdeaPad, that has some other disadvantages... - like the higher price, worse keyboard, and a smaller screen |
| 11:05.30 | mikey | How do you explain the existence of /lib/modules? |
| 11:05.41 | antivirtel | I cant really decide |
| 11:06.10 | jelly-homed | mikey: that's a non-sequitur. I don't see what paths have to do with a presumed need to reinstall drivers. |
| 11:06.22 | ar | initrd is pointless, unless you want / on lvm (which is pointless anyway) or an encrypted / |
| 11:06.27 | iorivur | keboard of Ideapad is really bad |
| 11:06.45 | mikey | Each kernel has it's own set of drivers that are populated in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/ |
| 11:07.26 | mikey | ar: of you want your drive controller to function... |
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| 11:08.24 | jelly-homed | mikey: let me put it this way: have you ever used a separate intel or radeon gpu kernel driver version different from the one that comes in the distro |
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| 11:09.05 | mikey | jelly-homed: Not intel or radeon, I always stick to nvidia cards, which tend to use a different driver. |
| 11:09.16 | jelly-homed | mikey: and we're talking about free drivers. |
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| 11:09.29 | mikey | You mentioned that they break every 6 months. |
| 11:09.32 | mikey | What's causing that? |
| 11:09.43 | jelly-homed | regressions in the code. |
| 11:09.46 | MichelleZ | nvidia drivers are no different though, they are built for a specific kernel, the nvidia installer either downloads a prebuilt one that matches your kernel or builds one for you |
| 11:10.10 | mikey | jelly-homed: The driver code, xorg, or what? |
| 11:10.16 | jelly-homed | mikey: yes. |
| 11:10.21 | mikey | Which one? |
| 11:10.31 | jelly-homed | any of the parts. |
| 11:10.53 | mikey | I've never had this happen with my drivers. |
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| 11:11.11 | jelly-homed | that's because you don't use free gpu drivers |
| 11:11.29 | mikey | Though, whenever I upgrade the kernel from the distro repository, i update the driver using the nvidia installer. |
| 11:11.56 | jelly-homed | which is exactly the point I'm trying to make -- I've had less problems with one year of nvidia non-free usage than one year of video-intel usage |
| 11:11.57 | mikey | I'll have to give the core kernel drivers a try some time. |
| 11:12.21 | jelly-homed | and video-radeon seems to suffer from similar issues |
| 11:13.16 | ar | mikey: placing / on anything kernel can't handle by itself is just asking for trouble |
| 11:13.19 | antivirtel | then jelly-homed I might buy this one, and suffer from pain :D - If I buy an IdeaPad, that has some other disadvantages... - like the higher price, worse keyboard, and a smaller screen - I can't decide - any comments, |
| 11:13.20 | antivirtel | ? |
| 11:13.37 | jelly-homed | antivirtel: you seem to have already made a choice. |
| 11:13.56 | antivirtel | :D |
| 11:13.56 | jelly-homed | I don't have anything new to add. |
| 11:14.20 | mikey | ar: yep. |
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| 11:14.33 | antivirtel | then ok I buy it, then shame on me if I suffer from that pain ... thanks jelly-homed |
| 11:14.43 | mikey | Well, depends really. Just make sure to keep your card drivers updated. |
| 11:14.44 | jelly-homed | after 5 years of video-intel shenanigans at home and video-radeon and fglrx at work, I'm very happy with nvidia. |
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| 11:15.30 | mjt | what's the way to change default video playe in _xfce_ ? Right now it tries to open stuff in totem which does not work for all files, I'd like to use vlc but keep totem for other stuff. |
| 11:15.34 | mjt | player* |
| 11:15.51 | ar | over the last few years i've had no trouble with intel, fglrx or nvidia |
| 11:16.12 | ar | on different distros (gentoo, fedora, exherbo, gentoo...) |
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| 11:19.04 | kresp0 | ar: same for me, but only on ubuntu with intel or nvidia |
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| 11:19.51 | rly | How do I install Emacs on Debian Sid? |
| 11:20.00 | rly | apt-get install emacs obviously doesn't work. |
| 11:20.12 | award85 | did you check for apt-cache search emacs? |
| 11:20.24 | jelly-homed | rly: how does it fail to work? |
| 11:20.29 | jelly-homed | ,versions emacs |
| 11:20.30 | judd | Package: emacs on i386 -- lenny: 22.2+2-5; lenny-backports: 23.1+1-4~bpo50+1; sid: 23.2+1-7; squeeze: 23.2+1-7; sid: 23.3+1-4; wheezy: 23.3+1-4 |
| 11:20.33 | rly | award85: it downloads it, it tries to install it and then it finds 'errors'. |
| 11:20.43 | jelly-homed | !bat |
| 11:20.43 | dpkg | In order for us to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, aptitude or dselect we need the following information: The complete output of your apt-get/aptitude/dselect run (including the command you used); the output from apt-cache policy PKG1 PKG2...; for the relevant packages and "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 11:20.59 | jelly-homed | rly: ^^ |
| 11:21.14 | rly | jelly-homed: /usr/lib/emacsen-common/packages/install/emacsen-common: line 38: xemacs21: command not found |
| 11:21.23 | rly | jelly-homed: it seems that someone just wrote a broken installation script. |
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| 11:21.36 | rly | How people manage to create such broken systems is beyond me, though. |
| 11:21.47 | jelly-homed | rly: a broken script in sid? File a bug report. |
| 11:22.07 | kresp0 | rly: cause we're all humans |
| 11:22.14 | kresp0 | right? |
| 11:22.20 | award85 | I'm half robot, actually |
| 11:22.25 | rly | kresp0: I don't know about myself. |
| 11:22.51 | rly | kresp0: X-rays seems to indicate that I am, but those could be fake too, right? |
| 11:22.57 | award85 | also, "How people manage to create such broken systems is beyond me", apparently, it wasn't too beyond you ;) |
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| 11:23.35 | kresp0 | i think that soon the robots will take the irc. and with tool on their hands, they will take the world! |
| 11:24.21 | award85 | the robots already control the world; they're just biding their time |
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| 11:25.02 | kresp0 | rly: you just have to realize that you can metaprogram yourself. then decide if you're a human or a robot |
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| 11:25.31 | rly | jelly-homed: How can I get 'configured to not write apport reports' to 'configured to write apport report'? |
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| 11:26.08 | award85 | kresp0: whenever I try that, I always wind up with a segfault |
| 11:26.14 | rly | (That is btw, a terrible message, because it would be a very common question for people to ask 'how to enable that?') |
| 11:26.39 | kresp0 | award85 xD |
| 11:26.40 | rly | It should have said "Currently not enabled (but you can enable it by executing the following command)". |
| 11:27.12 | kresp0 | you have to understand what the command is, or someone else might be root on you |
| 11:28.12 | Blackshirt | What caused segfault? |
| 11:28.14 | rly | kresp0: then link to a freaking wiki explaining the issue. |
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| 11:29.41 | rly | Oh, wait, apport is that broken Ubuntu system :/ |
| 11:29.44 | kresp0 | Blackshirt: |
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| 11:29.51 | kresp0 | <kresp0> rly: you just have to realize that you can metaprogram yourself. then decide if you're a human or a robot |
| 11:29.51 | kresp0 | * efaistos se ha marchado (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 11:29.51 | kresp0 | * Blackshirt (~Blackshir@112.215.63.4) ha entrado en #debian |
| 11:30.20 | kresp0 | that causes the segfault on award85 xD |
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| 11:33.28 | award85 | D: |
| 11:33.50 | award85 | sorry about the late reply, I was rebooting my brain |
| 11:35.06 | Blackshirt | Maybe you n3ed reformat your brain guys |
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| 11:35.39 | award85 | yeah, I was debating between btrfs and zfs |
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| 11:36.33 | kresp0 | xD what i really need is to do a migration on a acer revo from squeeze-amd64 to squeeze-32bits |
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| 11:36.57 | kresp0 | and shutdown this computer |
| 11:37.22 | award85 | hmm, I've never gone 64 -> 32, any issues run into? |
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| 11:38.09 | micols | why debate them, they're far from being done for linux aren't they? |
| 11:38.33 | kresp0 | yes, i've problems with the nvidia vdpau 64 bits driver. i've installed a 32bits version on an external drive and was fine |
| 11:38.45 | award85 | micols: apparently not so, as Fedora may be using it as default come next release |
| 11:39.05 | micols | does that mean it is stable?:) |
| 11:39.09 | award85 | for btrfs, and FreeBSD is offereing zfs as an option in install, too |
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| 11:39.18 | micols | zfs is userspace only iirc |
| 11:39.21 | micols | in linux |
| 11:39.25 | award85 | ah, I see |
| 11:40.01 | award85 | as far as btrfs, I wouldn't use it in anything that needs stability, and I really wouldn't be using any benefit from it, but it's nice to see progress being made in it, though |
| 11:40.37 | micols | I used xfs which has been in stable kernels for years now and still there has been some serious issues with it, kernel crashes mainly |
| 11:40.57 | micols | so just don't feel like trying something new unless I got a machine I can afford to lose all my data on |
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| 11:41.23 | award85 | so why use xfs, then? |
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| 11:41.54 | micols | well I would need a place to put 15TBs if I should change fs |
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| 11:42.09 | iorivur | in debian, we have k/freebsd, so you can choose ZFS as / while u using debian |
| 11:42.11 | kresp0 | micols: you have to assume that any media will fail eventually. you have to make backups |
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| 11:42.38 | micols | I make backups, just not full backups as not all my data is important |
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| 11:42.47 | kresp0 | good |
| 11:42.50 | micols | so only back up 2-3TB |
| 11:42.56 | iorivur | I have used btrfs as / and this is made up by 1 partition, and this idea was bad |
| 11:43.11 | award85 | iorivur: what'd you run into? |
| 11:43.36 | micols | one partition only is always a bad idea imo, but it works fine if you got a large disk and never run out of space |
| 11:43.40 | micols | and if you never want to reinstall |
| 11:43.57 | micols | separate partitions is good for reinstalling easily without losing your data (always backup first though) |
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| 11:44.16 | award85 | unless you're running rsync or some sort of network/cloud storage |
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| 11:44.39 | award85 | I've found dropbox has been pretty handy for new/reinstalls |
| 11:44.40 | iorivur | well, in my case, I uses sid, |
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| 11:45.26 | iorivur | and after dist-upgrade or just upgrade(Imnot sure), fsck.btrfs replace to btrfsck, |
| 11:45.40 | iorivur | and this make trouble in booting |
| 11:46.08 | iorivur | s/replace/was replaced/ |
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| 11:46.36 | iorivur | Because boot stop if it cant fsck |
| 11:47.44 | iorivur | And, this is point, I think it is no use to use btrfs if you'rent willing to use RAID |
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| 11:47.47 | award85 | well, since the next Fedora is around half a year away, let's hope you can get some stability for that. I'm pretty sure Fedora is good for upstream |
| 11:47.52 | Mortvert | Oh hi |
| 11:48.59 | iorivur | Fedora is like a stick to walk for blinded people(RHEL). |
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| 11:50.18 | iorivur | Or crashable bumper... if it run into problem, they'll just revert |
| 11:50.50 | award85 | hmm, I've heard that Red Hat (and Fedora) contribute back to the community more than some, like Ubuntu. So I was under the impression they were more helpful |
| 11:51.13 | rly | Is there any _supported_ backup solution for Debian? Meaning that there is up to date documentation for its use under Debian specifically which doesn't require hours of figuring out things to setup? |
| 11:51.37 | rly | By backup I mean disk based, not tape based over the network backup. |
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| 11:52.15 | Mortvert | rly - try DD |
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| 11:52.41 | iorivur | Backup? |
| 11:53.13 | iorivur | Well, you didnt mean mount, compress, and copy? |
| 11:53.46 | award85 | what's wrong with tape backups? |
| 11:53.50 | Mortvert | also, ^? |
| 11:54.00 | rly | award85: not having a tape to backup would help. |
| 11:54.08 | Mortvert | award85 - weren't tape backups mostly for servers? |
| 11:54.28 | rly | Mortvert: what is wrong with you? |
| 11:54.56 | award85 | Mortvert: for the most part |
| 11:54.56 | Mortvert | rly - hm.. blame my allergy meds. |
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| 11:55.26 | award85 | Jack Daniels is the best sort of allergy med |
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| 11:56.18 | Mortvert | award85 - nah. |
| 11:58.15 | jelly-home | rly: there are multiple apps in the archive but none specifically endorsed. |
| 11:58.35 | iorivur | rly: Forexample, just burn cd, it is easy |
| 11:58.48 | rly | iorivur: sure, I will burn 200 cds. |
| 11:58.50 | jelly-home | rly: Figuring out rsnapshot for example shouldn't take "hours" |
| 11:58.50 | rly | iorivur: by hand. |
| 11:59.08 | rly | jelly-home: that was my previous solution, which wasn't that bad, but I wanted something a bit more advanced. |
| 11:59.17 | rly | jelly-home: I think I will just pick that again. |
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| 11:59.29 | rly | jelly-home: for example, I looked at backuppc. |
| 11:59.37 | iorivur | rly: Or, just compress and copy to new hdd for back up, this is easy to |
| 11:59.41 | rly | jelly-home: now, I see lots of people crying of restores not working. |
| 11:59.57 | rly | iorivur: can you please stop your bad advice? |
| 12:00.11 | scoobertron | rly: is there a particular feature you are looking for? |
| 12:00.29 | rly | scoobertron: fast, easy to configure, always works, no bugs. |
| 12:00.41 | rly | scoobertron: and backups over ssh. |
| 12:00.44 | nkuttler | rly: backuppc works fine for me |
| 12:00.49 | jelly-home | rly: how much are you prepared to pay for that |
| 12:01.10 | Mortvert | i use DD myself to backup whole disk with everything, cause i fail at anything i touch |
| 12:01.17 | rly | jelly-home: I could write a solution like that myself in a week or so. |
| 12:01.27 | rly | jelly-home: so, not that much. |
| 12:01.42 | rly | Also, I have zero trust that a closed source solution will magically work. |
| 12:02.00 | jelly-home | rly: so a week worth at $75/hr for a programmer, 75*40 = 3000 |
| 12:02.00 | rly | The people that write these applications are generally not the most talented on the planet. |
| 12:02.16 | rly | jelly-home: but at that point I could sell it to others too. |
| 12:02.21 | nkuttler | rly: if you're just going to rant #debian-offtopic |
| 12:02.36 | rly | nkuttler: have you seen the bugs in the stable version of Debian for backuppc? |
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| 12:02.51 | nkuttler | rly: how is that relevant? |
| 12:02.55 | rly | nkuttler: if you are using it in the default configuration, it doesn't work! |
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| 12:03.02 | rly | nkuttler: it seems pretty relevant. |
| 12:03.05 | nkuttler | rly: big fucking surprise |
| 12:03.08 | award85 | rly: it takes a lot to write software. It takes even more to right good software... |
| 12:03.13 | award85 | write* even |
| 12:03.17 | nkuttler | rly: it doesn't do *anything* by default |
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| 12:03.29 | jelly-home | nkuttler: Debian prides itself on having sensible defaults where possible. |
| 12:03.29 | rly | nkuttler: you failed to get the point. |
| 12:03.39 | chalcedony | what do i need to add to debian to be able to see characters like these? フィンラ |
| 12:03.49 | nkuttler | jelly-home: you can't have sensible defaults when remote hosts are involved |
| 12:03.50 | rly | nkuttler: the point is that even if you configured it correctly, it does NOT restore. |
| 12:03.55 | award85 | finra? |
| 12:03.56 | rly | nkuttler: already get the relevance? |
| 12:04.15 | nkuttler | rly: works for me |
| 12:04.19 | rly | nkuttler: .... |
| 12:04.32 | rly | nkuttler: nobody cares whether it works on your little system; it should work _everywhere_. |
| 12:04.52 | nkuttler | i give up |
| 12:04.54 | award85 | chalcedony: do you have all the relevent fonts installed? |
| 12:05.05 | chalcedony | award85, maybe not? how do i do that? |
| 12:05.24 | jelly-home | award85: which fonts are relevant for .jp support? |
| 12:05.34 | award85 | hmm, mincho and a few othres, let me check |
| 12:05.40 | chalcedony | ty ty :) |
| 12:05.41 | scoobertron | rly: I found rsync to be a reliable option. I have it running hourly from cron to back up to my local file server over the network. |
| 12:05.53 | rly | scoobertron: rsnapshot is superior to that. |
| 12:05.58 | award85 | also, no software works "everywhere", because not every system is built with the same packages and dependencies. |
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| 12:06.04 | rly | award85: wrong. |
| 12:06.08 | jelly-home | rly: but rsnapshot is just a rsync wrapper |
| 12:06.12 | rly | jelly-home: I know. |
| 12:06.15 | award85 | rly: prove me wrong, please |
| 12:06.25 | nkuttler | funny why people ask questions when they know everything better |
| 12:06.30 | kresp0 | award85: do apt-get install sl |
| 12:06.31 | award85 | nkuttler: ^ |
| 12:06.33 | chalcedony | rsync id pretty good at what it does |
| 12:06.33 | scoobertron | rly: just a suggestion. |
| 12:06.34 | kresp0 | and then run sl |
| 12:06.39 | jelly-home | rly: "superior" is an unusual adjective to use |
| 12:06.57 | jelly-home | kresp0: ? |
| 12:07.00 | rly | nkuttler: the thing is; I don't know everything better. I just know some things about it. |
| 12:07.32 | rly | scoobertron: the nice thing about rsnapshot is that it builds on proven tools (rsync) to build an actual backup solution. |
| 12:07.33 | kresp0 | if you install a piece of software from the repos, it should work whatever the system is |
| 12:08.01 | rly | award85: software is a mathematical expression. |
| 12:08.09 | award85 | chalcedony: according to some sources, you should install the mincho font. So a "apt-cache search mincho | less" should show you what's available |
| 12:08.19 | award85 | rly: that's very vague |
| 12:08.21 | rly | award85: any software which works in any other way (i.e. doesn't) sucks. |
| 12:08.42 | award85 | rly: are you trolling? |
| 12:08.49 | rly | Software should have clearly defined external 'dependencies' and when it fails it should say exactly why it failed. |
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| 12:09.03 | kresp0 | award85: rly is not trolling |
| 12:09.03 | nkuttler | kresp0: a backup solution that's designed to support multiple hosts can't have a default config |
| 12:09.05 | rly | award85: are you ignorant? |
| 12:09.07 | kresp0 | he's right |
| 12:09.15 | chalcedony | award85, wow i got a whole list.. is there an easy way to get all of that? |
| 12:09.15 | nkuttler | kresp0: that "just works" |
| 12:09.17 | chalcedony | and others |
| 12:09.25 | jelly-home | well it's not called _restore_pc |
| 12:09.27 | jelly-home | hides |
| 12:09.36 | rly | jelly-home: excellent! :) |
| 12:09.45 | award85 | chalcedony: you'll only need the actual fonts from that, anything else you most likely won't need |
| 12:09.45 | kresp0 | nkuttler, thats right. only a sample config file or something |
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| 12:10.21 | award85 | rly: thanks, for the great jump to a conclusion. However your statement was that software should work everywhere, while that isn't the case in the real world. |
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| 12:11.49 | award85 | chalcedony: if you're also trying to type in Japanese, you'll most likely need anthy installed, as well |
| 12:12.34 | chalcedony | gs-cjk-resource - Resource files for gs-cjk, ghostscript CJK-TrueType extension |
| 12:12.35 | chalcedony | latex-cjk-japanese-wadalab - type1 and tfm DNP Japanese fonts for latex-cjk |
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| 12:12.49 | chalcedony | and a whole lot of other lines.. |
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| 12:12.57 | chalcedony | anthy.. ok |
| 12:13.08 | mcStocks | anyone know if the wizardpen is availble in debian ? |
| 12:13.32 | award85 | chalcedony: those are application specific. Anything that is ttf-NAME or xfonts-NAME is what you want |
| 12:14.04 | award85 | chalcedony: anthy and scim, at least for Japanese. |
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| 12:28.06 | vip3r_ | hello, i have debian 6.0 (32-bit) and changed my setup from software raid to non-raid, but i cannot build a new initramfs |
| 12:28.51 | vip3r_ | when i try with: update-initramfs -k all -c |
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| 12:29.16 | vip3r_ | i get: /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs: 343: cannot create : Directory nonexistent |
| 12:29.49 | vip3r_ | and cpio: not implemented or invalid option... |
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| 12:30.14 | jetscreamer | i dunno but aren't you supposed to put -u |
| 12:30.21 | vip3r_ | is there another way to re-create a new initramfs? |
| 12:30.31 | jetscreamer | only updated mine a couple times |
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| 12:30.43 | jetscreamer | !initramfs |
| 12:30.44 | dpkg | i guess initramfs is the new <initrd>. See http://www.ducea.com/2006/10/10/debian-etch-kernels/ for Sarge and Etch kernel differences (forward looking as we know it prior to etch's release), or ask me about <initramfs debug>. See also <targeted>. http://wiki.debian.org/initramfs |
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| 12:31.57 | vip3r_ | @jetscreamer: i tried -u as well, same error |
| 12:32.11 | jetscreamer | no idea, maybe those links will help |
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| 12:33.39 | vip3r_ | ok, thanks anyway, already tried a lot of the options from debian wiki or other sites, hmm |
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| 12:36.09 | pksadiq | any debian channel for youth? |
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| 12:38.07 | chalcedony | pksadiq, isn't this good enough? |
| 12:38.07 | vip3r_ | i also tried mkinitramfs -o initrd.img-2.6.32-5-686 2.6.32-5-686 and dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.32-5-686 but non of it worked |
| 12:38.37 | pksadiq | chalcedony: I just need get some friends ;) |
| 12:39.24 | chalcedony | pksadiq, #debian-offtopic |
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| 12:41.14 | jetscreamer | maybe ask later, kind of a dead time |
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| 12:43.53 | xreal | I want to download all remote files from a FTP site. What's the correct command for this? It's FTP, not SFTP. |
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| 12:48.35 | vip3r_ | @xreal: try to connect with "ftp" command and download multiple files with mget command on the ftp shell |
| 12:49.25 | xreal | ftp: command not found |
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| 12:49.57 | vip3r_ | apt-get install ftp |
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| 12:54.47 | xreal | mget is slow... there are thousand small XML files |
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| 12:55.29 | xreal | wget/curl should work |
| 12:55.42 | pksadiq | xreal: what is mget? |
| 12:55.48 | xreal | pksadiq: command in ftp |
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| 12:56.00 | nkuttler | xreal: does anymody have a shell/admin interface to that box? ask them to tar.gz it |
| 12:56.07 | jetscreamer | mass get |
| 12:56.17 | jetscreamer | see also mput |
| 12:56.21 | xreal | nkuttler: nope, it's a datalogger |
| 12:56.32 | pksadiq | jetscreamer: k |
| 12:57.10 | xreal | "wget ftp://.../*" seems to work fine |
| 12:57.12 | pksadiq | xreal: if I have alot of small files to download I login to server as ssh, gzip it and download it |
| 12:57.28 | xreal | pksadiq: It's a datalogger! FTP only :-) |
| 12:57.37 | xreal | it's a atmel based device |
| 12:57.48 | xreal | no ssh, not sftp, no ftps, no windows, no linux |
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| 12:58.12 | jetscreamer | wget does ftp iirc |
| 12:58.22 | xreal | yep: "wget ftp://.../*" seems to work fine |
| 12:58.27 | nkuttler | yeah, i think i've used wget in the past for such things as well. iirc it was the most reliable |
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| 12:58.53 | pksadiq | xreal: I have 5kBps speed, so I use anapnea.net for ssh, then download to that account and then gzip and download to pc ;) |
| 12:59.39 | wt0vremr | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:00.01 | xreal | pksadiq: I'm not allowed to post the ftp login data on another server :-/ |
| 13:00.34 | award85 | 5kBps... I feel so sorry for you |
| 13:00.39 | pksadiq | wt0vremr: just pay 2$/month. 2GB total limit/month, so I use irc, elinks etc ;) |
| 13:00.45 | vip3r_ | cannot build the initramfs, this really seems to be a bug, he is adding the modules and stuff, but then: /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs: 343: cannot create : Directory nonexistent |
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| 13:01.01 | vip3r_ | and: cpio: not implemented or invalid option -- |
| 13:01.28 | jetscreamer | make whatever dir it is? |
| 13:01.29 | vip3r_ | seems like i have to re-install the system? cannot get the initramfs rebuild :( |
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| 13:01.54 | jetscreamer | you 'could' try reinstalling the kernel if you just 'had' to maybe |
| 13:01.55 | pksadiq | / debian-offtopic |
| 13:01.59 | pksadiq | sorry |
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| 13:06.14 | vip3r_ | "update-initramfs -v -k 2.6.32-5-686 -u" is stopping after "Building cpio initramfs" with the two errors directory nonexistent and cpio not implemented |
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| 13:17.41 | vip3r_ | help, does anybody know how to recover/recreate an initramfs on debian 6.0 with a rescue cd? had no success yet |
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| 13:18.27 | frostschutz | vip3r_: rescue cd? can you chroot into the system and build it from there? |
| 13:19.10 | vip3r_ | yes, i booted the rescue cd and chowned into it, but the mkinitramfs build does not complete |
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| 13:21.04 | vip3r_ | after executing "mkinitramfs -o initrd.img-2.6.32-5-686 2.6.32-5-686" it says: /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs: 343: cannot create : Directory nonexistent |
| 13:21.22 | vip3r_ | and: cpio: not implemented or invalid option -- |
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| 13:21.48 | vip3r_ | and: E: mkinitramfs failure find 141 cpio 1 gzip 2 |
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| 13:29.03 | frostschutz | vip3r_: not sure, mkinitramfs is a shell script so you could check out wth its trying to do in line 343 |
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| 13:33.53 | vip3r_ | frostschutz: thanks for the info that it is a shell script, maybe any broken link or path is braking cpio hmm |
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| 13:36.39 | frostschutz | vip3r_: also try running it as "bash -x /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs yourparametershere" instead of just mkinitramfs, maybe that will give more output |
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| 13:40.02 | jetscreamer | when you chroot in you have to mount proc or something to do operations like that is what i dimly recall |
| 13:40.11 | vip3r_ | @frostschutz: this is good, but don't understand why it says: /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs: line 338: : No such file or directory |
| 13:40.50 | vip3r_ | yes, i did mount the specials (dev,proc,sys) |
| 13:40.52 | jetscreamer | mount -o remount sounds familiar also, but i forget |
| 13:40.56 | jetscreamer | ah ok nvm |
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| 13:42.42 | mjt | so what is in line 338? |
| 13:42.59 | vip3r_ | "fi" |
| 13:43.18 | vip3r_ | there are the checks if $ec1, if $ec2, if $ec3 |
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| 13:44.39 | hivemind | гр |
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| 13:44.40 | hivemind | uh\ |
| 13:44.45 | mjt | are you sure you're looking into the right mkinitramfs? :) |
| 13:45.01 | hivemind | what packages is a mp3, mp4, flv and avi codecs in debian? |
| 13:45.27 | mjt | there's no such "codec" as avi, and probably all the rest too |
| 13:45.29 | vip3r_ | yes, i am looking into /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs |
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| 13:45.45 | mjt | these are container formats, not codecs |
| 13:46.03 | mjt | vip3r_: inside the chroot or outside of it? |
| 13:46.13 | jelly-home | hivemind: what are you really trying to do. |
| 13:46.14 | hivemind | mjt, okay, package for mp3 is mp3-encoder? |
| 13:46.36 | mjt | i don't understand "package for mp3" |
| 13:46.42 | vip3r_ | inside, after chrooting |
| 13:46.57 | hivemind | jelly-home, i trying to install non-oss codecs on my system, to play music and videos |
| 13:47.10 | mjt | non-oss codecs? |
| 13:47.28 | mjt | non-open-sound-system? |
| 13:47.34 | jelly-home | hivemind: do you have an exmaple file that can't be played in eg. vlc or mplayer? |
| 13:47.41 | hivemind | non-opensourcesoftware |
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| 13:47.47 | hivemind | jelly-home, yes |
| 13:47.53 | jelly-home | hivemind: which player are you using? |
| 13:47.57 | hivemind | totem |
| 13:48.05 | vip3r_ | cpio doesn't know these parameters |
| 13:48.12 | jelly-home | hivemind: can you try vlc instead? |
| 13:48.25 | hivemind | yes, i can install it |
| 13:48.36 | hivemind | oh |
| 13:48.38 | mjt | vip3r_: maybe it is ${compress} a few lines above? |
| 13:48.52 | hivemind | 43.3Mbytes, installing take a long time |
| 13:48.55 | jelly-home | I don't use totem, so I don't know why it fails |
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| 13:49.09 | mjt | totem by default can't play many media files |
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| 13:49.45 | hivemind | yes, it say it needs codecs |
| 13:49.51 | jelly-home | !totem |
| 13:49.52 | dpkg | Totem is the official media player of the <GNOME> desktop environment, based on the <GStreamer> framework. <xine> libraries were previously supported until totem version 2.27.1. Packaged as totem in Squeeze, totem-gstreamer and totem-xine in Lenny. To resolve "Could not read from resource" errors when playing a DVD, ask me about <libdvdcss>. http://projects.gnome.org/totem/ #totem on irc.gnome.org. |
| 13:50.47 | hivemind | for playback need a module (Decoder MPEG-1 Layer 3 (MP3)), which is not installed |
| 13:50.57 | hivemind | it's translate from russian |
| 13:50.59 | jelly-home | hivemind: probably some gstreamer0.10-plugins\* packages are not installed |
| 13:51.05 | vip3r_ | there is some problem with the cpio parameters, he cannot handle "--" |
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| 13:51.27 | hivemind | jelly-home, i think it is |
| 13:51.28 | mjt | i've all gstreamer-plugins installed yet it can't play almost anything here |
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| 13:52.04 | mjt | vip3r_: and what does `cpio --version' say? |
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| 13:52.45 | jelly-home | hivemind: it might be easier to just use vlc instead |
| 13:52.48 | mjt | vip3r_: mkinitramfs expects to find gnu cpio |
| 13:52.51 | hivemind | i think |
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| 13:53.06 | hivemind | oh, 12% is downloaded |
| 13:53.51 | vip3r_ | mjt: it says "cpio: not implemented or invalid option --" |
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| 13:54.04 | mjt | vip3r_: here you go. you've a wrong cpio :) |
| 13:54.21 | mjt | vip3r_: type cpio; dpkg -S $(type -p cpio) |
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| 13:54.36 | vip3r_ | so the manpages doesn't match the installed version!? |
| 13:54.52 | vip3r_ | the manpages say GNU cpio and they list all the parameters |
| 13:54.54 | vip3r_ | strange |
| 13:54.54 | mjt | please run two commands |
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| 13:55.30 | vip3r_ | cpio is hashed (/bin/cpio) |
| 13:55.35 | vip3r_ | cpio: /bin/cpio |
| 13:55.51 | mjt | and also ls -l /bin/cpio |
| 13:56.39 | mjt | you apparently have your /bin/cpio from somewhere else |
| 13:56.47 | vip3r_ | ok, maybe there is another problem with the dashes in this changerooted environment |
| 13:56.57 | vip3r_ | -l: No such file or directory |
| 13:56.58 | mjt | dashes? |
| 13:57.05 | vip3r_ | after typing ls -l |
| 13:57.16 | mjt | how about echo $SHELL ? |
| 13:57.25 | jelly-home | vip3r_: that does not sound like a debian system |
| 13:57.35 | mjt | it maybe busybox shell |
| 13:57.46 | mjt | or something like that |
| 13:57.57 | vip3r_ | i started with the debian 6 rescue cd |
| 13:58.41 | Iridos | busybox doesn't know -l? |
| 13:58.51 | mjt | it may be built this way, yes |
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| 13:58.59 | jelly-home | vip3r_: are you sure you're chrooted into a debian installation? Can you start /bin/bash and see if it behaves sanely? |
| 13:59.04 | jelly-home | sanelier? |
| 13:59.05 | Iridos | crazy |
| 13:59.11 | vip3r_ | shell is bash but echo $SHELL says /bin/sh |
| 13:59.16 | mjt | Iridos: it's a configure option |
| 13:59.18 | vip3r_ | even when i start the bash |
| 13:59.22 | Iridos | what good's ls without the -l option... you could just as well do echo * |
| 13:59.41 | vip3r_ | i could use another boot cd |
| 13:59.43 | vip3r_ | no problem |
| 13:59.50 | vip3r_ | e.g. grml |
| 13:59.52 | mjt | vip3r_: it is unlikely a problem with your boot cd |
| 14:00.15 | mjt | vip3r_: after you chroot into your system it is your system not the boot cd |
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| 14:00.56 | Iridos | hm... if you have $SHELL set to busybox before chrooting, wouldn't the chroot also try to run with busybox? |
| 14:01.05 | mjt | yes |
| 14:01.15 | vip3r_ | the running kernel is the one of the boot cd |
| 14:01.18 | vip3r_ | with uname -a |
| 14:01.28 | mjt | but you can't have SHELL set to busybox ;) |
| 14:01.31 | Iridos | so if his system HAS busybox, what we see wouldn't be unexpected, really |
| 14:01.58 | Iridos | mjt, oh... good point... it's /bin/sh or whatever but those are all softlinks to busybox |
| 14:01.59 | Iridos | hm |
| 14:02.07 | vip3r_ | ah ok |
| 14:02.10 | mjt | Iridos: SHELL can be set to /bin/sh or somesuch. when yuo run /bin/busybox directly it just shows usage instructions, it does not run shell ;) |
| 14:02.26 | vip3r_ | also did this |
| 14:02.31 | vip3r_ | SHELL=/bin/bash |
| 14:02.34 | vip3r_ | before chrooting |
| 14:02.43 | mjt | so when you run ls -l it complains? |
| 14:02.55 | mjt | how about `type ls' ? :) |
| 14:04.32 | vip3r_ | yes it complains and yes, /bin/sh is a symlink to busybox on the debian cd |
| 14:04.57 | mjt | but not in your chroot, and busybox's ls on debian cd understands -l |
| 14:05.03 | vip3r_ | ls is /bin/ls |
| 14:05.21 | mjt | how do you chroot? |
| 14:05.41 | mjt | that's an interesting situation :) |
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| 14:06.20 | vip3r_ | i mounted the root-filesystem, then boot, then var and mysql and the specials dev,proc,sys |
| 14:06.23 | vip3r_ | then chrooted |
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| 14:06.27 | mjt | can you actually run /bin/bash directly? |
| 14:06.35 | mjt | like chroot /some/path /bin/bash |
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| 14:09.16 | vip3r_ | same result, says the shell is /bin/sh and the -l parameter doesn't work, but one moment, let me test something |
| 14:10.08 | mjt | heh. i'm busybox maintainer but i don't remember how it is configured ;) |
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| 14:11.06 | wt0vremr | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:11.17 | vip3r_ | ok, i rebooted into grml |
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| 14:11.23 | mjt | wt0vremr: what? |
| 14:11.25 | vip3r_ | mounted and chrooted |
| 14:11.38 | wt0vremr | mjt my /boot folder |
| 14:11.38 | vip3r_ | and the shell now is bash |
| 14:11.53 | vip3r_ | echo $SHELL -> /bin/bash |
| 14:12.01 | mjt | wt0vremr: what you /boot folder? |
| 14:12.11 | vip3r_ | did this before chrooting as well: SHELL=/bin/bash |
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| 14:13.27 | wt0vremr | mjt I accidentally my /boot folder |
| 14:13.30 | wt0vremr | =( |
| 14:13.52 | mjt | can you please read what you just wrote? |
| 14:14.00 | mjt | there's a verb missing |
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| 14:14.15 | wt0vremr | ow my dear God |
| 14:14.36 | wt0vremr | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:14.43 | mjt | heh |
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| 14:15.25 | wt0vremr | mjt, seems like you've just failed a russian sense-of humor test |
| 14:15.49 | mjt | c'est la vie, i think :) |
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| 14:16.52 | wt0vremr | mjt > Je suis un peu déçu |
| 14:17.12 | wt0vremr | ;-) |
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| 14:20.17 | onryo | Is it still necessary to align the partition to for SSDs to start ie 512k or does Debian act like Ubuntu and automagicly do it? Using kernel 3.1.0-1 |
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| 14:21.01 | mjt | when you perform partitioning it isn't really relevant which kernel you use, more important is what partitioning tools you use |
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| 14:21.27 | mjt | and there are many such tools, each has their own set of issues |
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| 14:22.21 | jelly-home | onryo: I don't think Debian 6 installer does the right thing, if that's what you're asking about. |
| 14:22.29 | onryo | gparted can do anything SSDs are hardwared into Blocks of 512k which are divided into pages of 4k in most cases. 128 pages = 1 block. |
| 14:22.41 | onryo | jelly-home that is really nice to hear =) |
| 14:22.44 | mjt | why do you think it's 512k? |
| 14:22.56 | jelly-home | gparted and fdisk can align to 1MiB |
| 14:23.38 | Iridos | mjt, http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-accidentally ... you should /j #debian-offtopic, this is not really suitable for here :) |
| 14:24.33 | ilj | hey guys. I've this server running Debian 5 and two disk software raid1. I saw the following errors with one of the drives in this raid: http://pastebin.com/JgJ7S314 No clue what it means, anyone knows exactly what it says? As I mentioned, it's server machine, generic hardware, nothing fance, ... |
| 14:24.38 | ilj | ... PSU is new and supply must be steady because this box is hosted alongside fancy rack units, so problems with electricity is very unlikely. |
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| 14:25.06 | onryo | mjt afaik no vendor has said right off the bad that it is 512k but Windows 7 defaults at 1024k. Also peoples bench marks show 512k or 1024k to be the sweat spot |
| 14:26.01 | mjt | onryo: aligning to 1M at least is a good idea anyway |
| 14:27.14 | mjt | ilj: run smart selftest (smartctl) on that drive, for a start (smartmontools package) |
| 14:27.51 | mjt | ilj: it looks like you drive developed a read error which got fixed by md by re-writing that place. |
| 14:28.00 | jelly-home | ilj: do similar errors repeat? please pastebin the contents of /proc/mdstat |
| 14:28.00 | onryo | mjt well it cant hurt and thats what Windows 7 does. Lose a mega and save (240GB-1M) |
| 14:28.18 | Mortvert | Uhh, i get clock skew warnings during make, is that bad? |
| 14:28.22 | Mortvert | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:28.50 | valdyn | Mortvert: do you understand what make does? |
| 14:28.58 | onryo | mjt do you know of squeeze will do this at install |
| 14:29.01 | Mortvert | valdyn - compile stuff, no? |
| 14:29.05 | valdyn | Mortvert: nope |
| 14:29.18 | Mortvert | derp. |
| 14:29.44 | mjt | onryo: i dunno, and based on what jelly-home said it doesn't |
| 14:29.58 | jelly-home | Mortvert: run a "make clean", rerun make again. I'll leave valdyn to explain why. :-) |
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| 14:30.34 | Mortvert | make: *** No rule to make target `clean'. Stop. |
| 14:30.40 | Mortvert | erp, rm -rf |
| 14:30.47 | jelly-home | that works, too |
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| 14:31.15 | valdyn | Mortvert: it will only run the compile commands if a timestamp comparison shows that that source file is older than object file |
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| 14:31.31 | valdyn | Mortvert: err, *newer* even |
| 14:32.56 | Mortvert | valdyn - ooh. |
| 14:33.04 | Mortvert | Okay, thanks for explaination. |
| 14:34.21 | jelly-home | thus, if the system's clock moves backwards, make can get confused |
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| 14:35.34 | onryo | mjt Dont easy get impressed with gear but when I tried a machine with a OCZ Vertex 3 max IOPS (yes Sandstorm is evil) I could not believe that my friends Ubuntu was reading at 556MB/s. Boot in 5 sec. So I bought one. |
| 14:35.46 | ilj | jelly-home, mdstat looks fine too: http://pastebin.com/MXZuy4Qx and as you can see it seems it was a one-off occurence , it never happened again so far. |
| 14:35.54 | ilj | mjt, will do that, thanks |
| 14:36.48 | Benkinooby | !offtopic |
| 14:36.49 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
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| 14:36.54 | valdyn | onryo: for all i know such ssd can be *very* bad at random writes, its not all great there |
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| 14:41.58 | rrn | Why does the default config file which comes with the sudo package use "sudo" as the group of sudo users? On other distros it is typically "wheel". |
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| 14:44.01 | hikenboot | does anyone know of debian backports (for squeeze) contains the updated linux-iscsi instead of the old open-iscsi? I am trying to get this working in a complex configuration that besides persistent cluster disk reservations works perfectly. Open-iscsi does not support this feature but from what I understand they are changing to linux-iscsi which does |
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| 14:47.29 | valdyn | !wheel |
| 14:47.29 | dpkg | hmm... wheel is the traditional name of security group 0 in BSD (from slang for "big wheel" as a powerful person). This group is irrelevant in the default Debian configs but you can use the "sudo" group to give users the ability to run commands as root through sudo; ask me about <sudoers>. Alternatively, look at the pam_wheel module for <PAM> which will only allow su to root from members of the wheel group. |
| 14:47.46 | valdyn | rrn: wheel is obviously something else |
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| 14:49.44 | rrn | valdyn: So the "sudo" group was chosen instead to avoid conflict with pam_wheel? |
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| 14:55.50 | valdyn | rrn: theres alot of stuff where group 0 is used by default in default debian |
| 14:56.25 | valdyn | rrn: sudo needs a group for only one purpose and no side effects, so the sudo group |
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| 14:58.41 | rrn | valdyn: I thought the "root" group is customarily GID=0? |
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| 14:58.53 | valdyn | rrn: yea it is |
| 14:59.13 | rrn | valdyn: What did you mean by "group 0"? |
| 14:59.23 | valdyn | rrn: just what dpkg said |
| 15:00.23 | rrn | valdyn: Any ideas why other distros use the wheel group for sudo? |
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| 15:00.58 | valdyn | rrn: i dont know, I think its careless |
| 15:02.11 | rrn | Makes sense, thanks. |
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| 15:06.23 | Yusuke | Hello, how to install tcllib in my debian VPS |
| 15:06.45 | *** part/#debian Notepath (~ax2b4u@i213226.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 15:06.45 | valdyn | judd: versions tcl8.3 |
| 15:06.48 | judd | Package: tcl8.3 on i386 -- lenny: 8.3.5-13 |
| 15:06.58 | valdyn | judd: versions tcl8.2 |
| 15:06.58 | judd | No package named 'tcl8.2' was found in i386. |
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| 15:07.06 | valdyn | judd: versions tcl8.4 |
| 15:07.08 | judd | Package: tcl8.4 on i386 -- lenny: 8.4.19-2; sid: 8.4.19-4; squeeze: 8.4.19-4; wheezy: 8.4.19-4 |
| 15:07.14 | valdyn | Yusuke: ^^ |
| 15:07.28 | Bogus8 | is there a "simple" command line tool that will encrypt/decrypt some stin into a file and echo it back out after checking a key and password? |
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| 15:07.39 | Yusuke | Hello, how to install tcllib in my debian VPS |
| 15:07.41 | valdyn | Yusuke: theres probably also 8.5 and 8.6 |
| 15:07.54 | valdyn | Yusuke: I just told you? |
| 15:08.19 | Yusuke | try on apt-get install tcl |
| 15:08.23 | Yusuke | nothing |
| 15:08.33 | hikenboot | since i get no answers to my rather specific problem. I am not sure what mailing list to ask on...a debian userlist, a proxmox user list, or an iscsi mailing list, or perhaps a kvm/pve list? |
| 15:08.38 | valdyn | Yusuke: the packages are named tcl8.3, tcl8.4 etc |
| 15:08.48 | themill | Yusuke: you have to use the right package name. How about any of the package names just mentioned in the channel? |
| 15:09.02 | Yusuke | E: Couldn't find package tcl8-4 |
| 15:09.09 | Yusuke | oh 8.4 |
| 15:09.09 | Yusuke | sorr |
| 15:09.12 | Yusuke | y |
| 15:09.15 | Bogus8 | Yusuke: you should learn to utilize `apt-cache search` |
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| 15:09.49 | rrn | valdyn: Interesting - since my distro's sudo package uses "wheel" by default, I am able to su to root (pam_wheel). |
| 15:09.50 | Engin | apt-get update has no timeout paramters ? one host is problematic and i can't complete the update process |
| 15:09.51 | Bogus8 | that combined with some clever grepping will narrow down what you are looking for pretty quickly |
| 15:10.08 | Yusuke | why is this? |
| 15:10.09 | Yusuke | tcl8.4 set to manually installed. |
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| 15:10.26 | valdyn | Yusuke: it was already installed |
| 15:10.39 | Yusuke | i got tcllib error when try run my eggdrop |
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| 15:11.08 | valdyn | Yusuke: theres a package called "tcllib". Is it installed? |
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| 15:11.24 | Yusuke | apt-get install tcllib ? |
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| 15:11.39 | Yusuke | tcllib is already the newest version. |
| 15:12.48 | Iridos | hikenboot, if that's in the iscsitarget-dkms packet... that has the same version in stable,testing and unstable |
| 15:12.51 | debian_noob | any workaround for UEFI guys? |
| 15:12.55 | Iridos | s/packet/package/ |
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| 15:13.58 | hikenboot | Iridos: iscsitarget is that commonly refered to not as open-iscsi but instead linux-iscsi? |
| 15:15.24 | SekeRim | .. |
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| 15:15.52 | Erdogan | how are you SekeRim :) |
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| 15:16.01 | SekeRim | thanks fine baby :) |
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| 15:16.43 | hikenboot | funny thing is i find no packages for linux-iscsi anywhere. It appears to be a compilation for later kernels only..sorry to be a pain Iridos I have been working on this for 2 weeks...and my configuration is nearly perfect except support of share persistence for MSCS cluster disks... |
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| 15:17.45 | Iridos | hikenboot, I have no experience with that at all... was just looking if I could point you in the direction to look... you can see the changelog running "aptitude changelog <packagename>" apt-cache show <packagename> gives you the package information... and also gives the url http://iscsitarget.sourceforge.net/ |
| 15:18.22 | Yusuke | How to find my tcl path |
| 15:18.26 | hikenboot | Iridos: perhaps you might be able to suggest the right place to ask on this...what mailing list do you think would be appropriate? |
| 15:18.29 | Yusuke | whereis and which dont work |
| 15:18.55 | pksadiq | Yusuke: which tcl ? |
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| 15:19.13 | Yusuke | doesnt work pksadiq |
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| 15:20.06 | pksadiq | Yusuke: locate tcl | grep /bin ;) no better idea |
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| 15:21.03 | Yusuke | doesnt work, damn, this vps sux |
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| 15:25.55 | Iridos | hikenboot, no... you could try asking here again after some time, there's quite some rotation which people are here, so you might be more lucky than now |
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| 15:26.35 | hikenboot | Iridos: I dont think its the same thing but I will download the latest 1.4.20.2 version of iscsitarget perhaps i will get lucky and it does support persistence features i am looking for thanks a bunch |
| 15:27.35 | Iridos | hikenboot, also just looked in the wiki... but as often the case stuff doesn't look very recent (or very helpful for you) fwiw: http://wiki.debian.org/iSCSI?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=iscsi&titlesearch=Titel |
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| 15:30.35 | guardian | hi, i'm configuring a box that hosts websites for different users. i've already been told i should prefer scponly over ftp. but now i'm wondering, should i let users choose their password or should i generate one for them? (something more drastic would be to disable password login but i'm not sure all users will be comfortable with using ssh keys particularly those running windows) |
| 15:30.41 | guardian | any hint please? |
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| 15:32.30 | Yusuke | how to install .deb package from my terminal? since i manually use wget |
| 15:32.45 | debian_noob | dpkg -i name.deb |
| 15:32.45 | dpkg | installs name.deb into debian_noob's head with a bone saw and a few screws |
| 15:32.52 | Iridos | with dpkg -i <package> |
| 15:33.03 | Iridos | debian_noob, did it hurt? :) |
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| 15:33.37 | debian_noob | not much ;) |
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| 15:33.59 | fugdnscerd | having trouble setting up ldap on debian i run the migrate_all_online.sh script from migration tools and this is the result http://pastebin.com/60JqMqmQ |
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| 15:34.28 | Iridos | guardian, if you generate the passwords, you have to worry about getting them to the people, if you let them choose, you have to worry about bad passwords (although you'll have restrictions) ... |
| 15:34.51 | fugdnscerd | pastebin is the last lines of the result of bash -x running migrate_all_online.sh |
| 15:35.14 | Yusuke | how to grant user to use dpkg function |
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| 15:36.06 | unreal-dude | just any user? |
| 15:36.07 | pksadiq | debian_noob: pleast check PM |
| 15:36.09 | guardian | Iridos: exactly, and if i generate passwords for them, some won't remember it and store it in obvious places… so i don't really know which is best |
| 15:36.15 | debian_noob | pksadiq, no PMs please |
| 15:36.19 | unreal-dude | sudoers |
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| 15:36.58 | Guest41253 | HI. |
| 15:37.15 | Iridos | guardian, well... I thought so, too... _some_ of them will store them in obvious places anyway, though... but if you don't let them choose, they will be more... |
| 15:38.09 | Guest41253 | 'm trying to connect two machines by parallel port, but when I ping, gives this error: ping: sendmsg: No buffer space available. |
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| 15:40.12 | Iridos | by parallel port /o\ |
| 15:40.34 | Guest41253 | Yes... |
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| 15:42.16 | fugdnscerd | what kind of cable are you using for this? |
| 15:42.28 | Guest41253 | I set up the first machine like this: if plip0 config 192.168.1.1 and then checked: config ifi plip0 |
| 15:42.51 | Guest41253 | ificonfig plip0 |
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| 15:43.13 | Yusuke | W: Failed to fetch http://ftp.debian.org/debian-volatile/dists/lenny/volatile/contrib/binary-amd64/Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.12 80] |
| 15:43.20 | Yusuke | why so |
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| 15:43.37 | Yusuke | thats why I failed to update lol |
| 15:43.39 | jetscreamer | try the word stable instead of lenny used to fix something |
| 15:43.58 | Guest41253 | The paralelar cacle. |
| 15:44.09 | Guest41253 | paralelal cable. |
| 15:44.11 | fugdnscerd | try browsing to that location in a browser and see what you get |
| 15:44.33 | Guest41253 | Not woks... |
| 15:44.41 | Yusuke | i'm SSHing my vps, no browser. |
| 15:44.47 | Guest41253 | I type: 192.168.1.2... |
| 15:45.24 | jetscreamer | so mebbe oldstable if applicable |
| 15:45.45 | fugdnscerd | try it in a browser on your desktop |
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| 15:46.08 | Guest41253 | I try....not works... |
| 15:46.12 | rly | Is there an alternative to mount.ntfs-3g? |
| 15:46.24 | fugdnscerd | Guest1253: why do you choose parallel cable as opposed to ethernet? |
| 15:46.36 | rly | It uses 50% CPU which likely is an order of magnitude more than Windows would use. |
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| 15:46.54 | rly | It is as if it has been artificially made to run slow. |
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| 15:48.06 | Guest41253 | because I just got this cable here at the moment. |
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| 15:48.56 | fugdnscerd | You realize that is gonna be EXTREMELY slow right?! |
| 15:48.56 | RiotingPacifist | Do i need to allow mail to username@localhost and username@localhost.localdomain or do all debain packages use /etc/mailname ? |
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| 15:49.39 | Guest41253 | I'm trying to do an offline store here, but is not working, so I thought the possibility of comprtilhar my internet. |
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| 15:52.52 | fugdnscerd | well good luck, wish i could help but i have never ventured into parallel ports in that manner. Sounds like a lot of trouble for very little pleasure to me :-/ |
| 15:53.07 | Mortvert | uhh |
| 15:53.30 | Mortvert | how can i make a gmake command that uses binary from /usr/lib/freebsd/? |
| 15:53.38 | Mortvert | like /usr/lib/freebsd/gmake |
| 15:53.48 | Mortvert | symlink to /usr/bin? |
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| 15:55.08 | daemonkeeper | Add it to your $PATH. Typically you really do not want to link it to avoid name clashes. |
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| 15:55.41 | Guest41253 | how do I create a local repository with the programs installed here? |
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| 15:55.52 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - uh, how do i do that? |
| 15:56.08 | Mortvert | i never messed with $PATH and stuff. |
| 15:56.38 | daemonkeeper | export PATH=$PAH:/usr/lib/freebsd. Note it is in your path for the session then which includes the name clashes I meant. |
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| 15:57.10 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - so it won't remain inbetween restarts? |
| 15:57.11 | fugdnscerd | Guest41253: check out apt-cacher |
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| 15:57.22 | Mortvert | also, shouldn't $PAH be $PATH? |
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| 15:57.47 | daemonkeeper | Mortvert: No, it won't persist until you set it in your local or global shell rc file, and yes $PATH |
| 15:58.33 | guardian | let say i modified /etc/skel and useradd.local; is there an easy way to propagate the changes to already existing users? |
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| 15:58.56 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - and the local file is in one of hidden folders in ~, yes? |
| 15:59.02 | Mortvert | local shell rc file i mean |
| 15:59.11 | daemonkeeper | Given you're using bash it is ~/.bashrc |
| 15:59.31 | Mortvert | can i slap the $PATH at end of file? |
| 15:59.50 | daemonkeeper | No, but the very same command I gave you above |
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| 16:00.46 | Mortvert | export PATH=$PATH:/usr/lib/freebsd |
| 16:00.47 | Mortvert | ? |
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| 16:01.09 | acidfu | hi folks, Im trying to add a 'configure option' into my debian/rules to build a package, anyone has a precise example ? thanks in advance |
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| 16:01.46 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - do i need to use the IF/FI as well? or just the export alone is fine? |
| 16:02.17 | daemonkeeper | Well, if is a conditional. Do you have any conditional here? :) |
| 16:02.19 | fugdnscerd | anyone here experienced with ldap? |
| 16:02.25 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - nope. |
| 16:02.41 | Mortvert | so just export alone then it is |
| 16:03.29 | jelly-home | acidfu: try asking #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org |
| 16:04.14 | fugdnscerd | anyone know of a irc channel for debian-clusters |
| 16:04.41 | rly | jelly-home: do you know how I can exclude a remote directory with rsnapshot? |
| 16:04.54 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - oops, can't access anything other than gmake ._. |
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| 16:05.26 | Mortvert | do i need other $PATH? |
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| 16:05.54 | llutz | rly:use " exclude" or" exclude_file " in rsnapshot.conf |
| 16:05.54 | rly | jelly-home: so, a location like machine:/opt/dir? |
| 16:05.59 | acidfu | jelly-home, ok thank you |
| 16:06.13 | rly | llutz: yes, but does that work for remote locations too? I tried that already, and it didn't work. |
| 16:06.13 | Jayro | Hello, i have just done a fresh install and was hoping someone could tell me the libraries I need for xft fonts, I am trying to configure conky but it refused to use any font i tell it to use. |
| 16:06.23 | daemonkeeper | Mortvert: Depends what you want to achieve. The command above let's you execute any command in your path as is. |
| 16:06.27 | rly | llutz: I specified exclude machine:/opt/dir/ |
| 16:06.34 | jelly-home | rly: a mounted network filesystem? |
| 16:06.41 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - well, i slapped the export PATH=$PAH:/usr/lib/freebsd and i couldn't access anything. oops? |
| 16:06.50 | rly | jelly-home: no, it is accessible via ssh. |
| 16:06.51 | jelly-home | rly: I haven't used rsnapshot in a while |
| 16:06.59 | Mortvert | had to do $PATH:/bin/ |
| 16:07.03 | daemonkeeper | You missed my T |
| 16:07.09 | daemonkeeper | You even noted it yourself :p |
| 16:07.12 | Mortvert | i added it in paste tho :P |
| 16:07.16 | *** part/#debian Guest41253 (~pgb@187-072-012-221.static.ctbctelecom.com.br) |
| 16:07.17 | Mortvert | in terminal |
| 16:07.31 | Mortvert | can i have multiple paths in one export? |
| 16:07.33 | llutz | rly exclude /opt/dir/ rsync-syntax/-rules |
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| 16:07.48 | Mortvert | like :/bin/,/usr/lib/freebsd? |
| 16:08.19 | rly | llutz: on the _remote_ machine. |
| 16:08.36 | jelly-home | Mortvert: $PAH typo made you wipe the old contents of PATH instead of appending to them |
| 16:08.45 | rly | llutz: let's say I have one machine on which I want to include /opt/dir and another one on which I don't want to include it? |
| 16:09.05 | Mortvert | jelly-home - i didn't mistyped it in my bashrc |
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| 16:09.18 | daemonkeeper | Mortvert: But in your local session. Close your shell and open it again. |
| 16:09.51 | llutz | rly: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-rsnapshot-backup-howto/ |
| 16:09.58 | Mortvert | daemonkeeper - that worked. magic. |
| 16:09.59 | Mortvert | Thanks. |
| 16:10.04 | jelly-home | Mortvert: you ARE aware that Debian's "make" is GNU Make, right? |
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| 16:10.18 | Mortvert | jelly-home - really? ._. |
| 16:10.19 | daemonkeeper | jelly-home: Debian's "make" is BSD make as well. |
| 16:10.24 | rly | llutz: that doesn't answer my question. |
| 16:10.31 | rly | llutz: I already read that article before. |
| 16:10.39 | llutz | rly: it does, read about the exclude per-server |
| 16:10.39 | jelly-home | GNU Make 3.81 |
| 16:10.44 | ausente | I need good links to repositories debian squeeze. |
| 16:11.01 | daemonkeeper | jelly-home: So? Yet Debian ships BSD make and uses it _in_ Debian itself. |
| 16:11.08 | ausente | I need good links to repositories debian lenny 5. |
| 16:11.14 | ausente | I need good links to repositories debian lenny 5. |
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| 16:11.22 | Mortvert | oops? |
| 16:11.34 | daemonkeeper | jelly-home: I know that, I have packages which depend on BSD make ;) |
| 16:11.35 | Mortvert | is idoru a bot? |
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| 16:11.51 | Mortvert | i can't compile this one thing without gmake, hence is why i needed it |
| 16:11.53 | rly | llutz: ok, that is obscure. |
| 16:11.55 | rly | llutz: thanks. |
| 16:12.12 | rly | llutz: is there also a way to do it without extra files? |
| 16:12.26 | jelly-home | daemonkeeper: they you know default /usr/bin/make and "make" package is GNU Make |
| 16:12.53 | daemonkeeper | jelly-home: Which is why BSD make is in /usr/lib/freebsd and not in $PATH |
| 16:13.22 | daemonkeeper | Just saying that BSD make is used a lot for kfreebsd in Debian for example. |
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| 16:14.26 | jelly-home | of course |
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| 16:17.09 | Bogus8 | does imap use standard smtp to "sync" the sent items? I'm configuring The Bat for imap for the first time and not sure how this is going to work. I thought imap would work with just one server setup and they would talk back and forth (sync) |
| 16:17.26 | crosswalk | It is necessary to know the ugoa and rwxXst chmod options? I usually just use the numeric values. |
| 16:17.47 | daemonkeeper | If you don't use it, why would it be necessary? |
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| 16:18.34 | crosswalk | Well, I suppose I was just wondering if it's something particularly useful as opposed to using the three numbers I see people use the most. |
| 16:18.41 | saulus | how can I disable my internal bluetooth device for using my better bluetooth dongle? |
| 16:18.44 | cthuluh | crosswalk: how do you give write permissions to group without changing the permissions for other users? |
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| 16:19.22 | daemonkeeper | People using numeric permissions only overwrite them entirely. |
| 16:19.22 | guardian | i think i already ask but don't remember the answer and have no logs: is it best practice to create a "backup" user which crontab would sudo /usr/loca/sbin/do-backup.sh — or is it equal to do it let root do that? |
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| 16:20.04 | daemonkeeper | guardian: For most backup tasks you will need root permissions anyway. |
| 16:20.48 | cthuluh | but creating a group allowed to perform backups without root access could make sense |
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| 16:21.40 | cthuluh | Bogus8: imap doesn't use smtp, afaik ; I'm looking up what "the bat" does, but... *shrug* |
| 16:21.49 | guardian | daemonkeeper: indeed hence i was wondering whether it's better practice to have a dedicated user named "backup" that would require sudo; compared to just edit root's crontab and do backup as root |
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| 16:23.04 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: the bat is just a typical client (but we like it)... when setting up an "imap" account on it, it ask for incoming and outgoing servers. When looking at the settings it shows "imap" as the protocol in the incoming section but nothing on the out going other than the server settings and ports (nothing in reference to imap). |
| 16:23.04 | crosswalk | cthuluh: chgrp? |
| 16:23.24 | rly | cthuluh: chmod g+w |
| 16:23.45 | cthuluh | rly: that was a rhetorical question targeted at crosswalk :) |
| 16:23.51 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: my ISP blocks 25 but I just realized that SSL is supported so that might be a solution. Assuming it still syncs to my server so my webmail will also have a copy of sent items. |
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| 16:24.18 | rly | cthuluh: that doesn't make sense. |
| 16:24.31 | cthuluh | Bogus8: ok, so you have to configure your client to send email via smtp+ssl |
| 16:24.34 | llutz | rly: it can be done inside rsnapshot.conf, use lines like " backup root@somehost:/ somehost +rsync_long_args=--exclude=/var/spool/" the 4th field for your excludes (man rsnapshot) |
| 16:24.34 | rly | cthuluh: my command does exactly what you asked. |
| 16:25.21 | rly | llutz: I tried that, but I got a directoryu named "+rsync.. spool/" |
| 16:25.22 | cthuluh | rly: yes, so thanks a lot, maybe crosswalk will take a look at it and see this isn't doable with a numeric chmod argument |
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| 16:25.34 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: yeah, I just did that so now I can send email from anywhere on my laptop vs only through my ISP (and then change outgoing when I'm not on my ISP's network) |
| 16:26.24 | cthuluh | Bogus8: I don't think that's a good idea ; sending mail from random ip addresses makes your mail end up in the trash (spam) can |
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| 16:27.06 | cthuluh | Bogus8: hence, you should use your isp's smtp server anyway (for your isp email account, that is) |
| 16:27.23 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: well, it's not often. but it is a pain if I'm on the road. BTW, I'm talking about always having the same SMTP server (NOW) vs having to change it depending on where I'm at. |
| 16:27.42 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: this is for a hosted email account (outside of my ISP) |
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| 16:28.49 | cthuluh | Bogus8: ah, so you can connect to this hosted smtp server from anywhere on a port different from 25? |
| 16:29.01 | llutz | rly: then you did it wrong, works here as shown |
| 16:29.22 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: with ssl I can do 465(?) |
| 16:29.25 | rly | llutz: and what if you want to exclude multiple dirs? |
| 16:29.43 | guardian | what's the reason behind adduser discarding permissions in /etc/skel? |
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| 16:30.17 | rly | guardian: try reading the manpage. |
| 16:30.27 | rly | guardian: it seems to be by design. |
| 16:30.36 | cthuluh | guardian: how do you tell adduser to chown "$newuser" his ~/.profile ? |
| 16:31.02 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: ixwebhosting (my wife's choice) only uses standard ports... unlike godaddy which offers a few including 80 which makes it easy for stubborn ISP's like my residential one. |
| 16:31.03 | cthuluh | guardian: read adduser(8), there's a section talking about adduser.local |
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| 16:32.05 | llutz | rly: just use multiple --exclude= for your dirs |
| 16:32.28 | rly | llutz: separated by what? Spaces? Tabs? |
| 16:32.45 | cthuluh | Bogus8: I can't see how I would be able to help further ; my first assumption was that you wanted to use your isp account... :) |
| 16:33.17 | guardian | ok thx |
| 16:33.22 | cthuluh | Bogus8: if your client has a way to easily deal with multiple outgoing smtp servers definitions, then use that, but *shrug* |
| 16:33.26 | guardian | that's exactly what i'm fiddling with :) |
| 16:33.29 | rly | llutz: so, the whole thing would be backup<TAB><DIR><TAB><SERVER/><TAB>+rsync...--exclude somefile<TAB>--exclude file<TAB> |
| 16:33.32 | llutz | rly: space (rsnapshot = rsync, so use its syntax) |
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| 16:33.55 | guardian | not sure whether i should create files in /etc/skel or create them as part of an adduser.local script; same goes for setting permissions and groups (like for the public_html folder in each user's home) |
| 16:34.24 | rly | guardian: you should create scripts independent of Debian specifics. |
| 16:34.37 | rly | guardian: so that when you ever ditch Debian, you can switch easily. |
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| 16:35.07 | rly | guardian: (I am not saying that you should ditch Debian) |
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| 16:35.27 | guardian | adduser.local is debian specific? |
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| 16:35.46 | fugdnscerd | rly: why would anyone ever want to do such a thing!?!?!? |
| 16:35.59 | cthuluh | guardian: probably |
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| 16:36.10 | horzuh | Wheezy question, if this is the wrong place, sorry, but after I install nvidia drivers, gdm won't start. Ideas? |
| 16:36.22 | rly | fugdnscerd: platform independent code is a good thing. |
| 16:36.29 | Bogus8 | cthuluh: yeah, the bat is pretty slick. Each "folder" is it's own profile. She has about 4 different domains/emails all in one instance of The Bat right now. We just want to move her to IMAP because she often finds herself needing to get to her emails while on the go and doesn't have her laptop. |
| 16:36.38 | cthuluh | guardian: but you can put the real work in an external script, and call it from adduser.local (the point in using addser.local is that is it ran automatically) |
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| 16:37.44 | guardian | i see, thx |
| 16:37.44 | fugdnscerd | rly: no argument... just had to speak up on debians behalf lol |
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| 16:38.52 | squiz0 | hi |
| 16:38.54 | guardian | so let say i modified /etc/skel and useradd.local; is there an easy way to propagate the changes to already existing users? |
| 16:40.00 | squiz0 | I'm trying to recompile my kernel to enable bluetooth support. But says that bluetooth support depends on another with has been configured as a module. How can I find which ones? |
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| 16:40.35 | lduros | is there a way for me to set the right side of my touchpad to scroll the current window when slide down with my finger? Like what Ubuntu has with Unity? I'm using Gnome 3 |
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| 16:42.38 | Trewas | lduros: I don't think that feature has anything to do with unity, just that the touchpad driver sends scroll wheel events when appropriate |
| 16:43.04 | nkuttler | lduros: iirc there's some synaptics config package you can use, depending on your driver probably |
| 16:43.16 | rozie | top |
| 16:43.19 | nkuttler | err |
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| 16:43.35 | cthuluh | guardian: write a script that checks that everything in /etc/skel is actually present in "$someuser"'s directory and with the correct permissions |
| 16:43.45 | guardian | ok |
| 16:43.48 | cthuluh | guardian: then call it for every existing account |
| 16:43.50 | nkuttler | lduros: or tpconfig or somesuch. apt-cache search touchpad |
| 16:43.55 | cthuluh | (not for system accounts, btw) |
| 16:43.59 | lduros | nkuttler: Trewas: hmm ok, i'll check that thanks |
| 16:44.00 | lduros | :-) |
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| 16:44.16 | rozie | sorry, checking topic to find a source for Java removal from Debian |
| 16:44.27 | crosswalk | cthuluh: The command chmod u+wxr would give the owner of the file write, read, and execute permissions right? |
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| 16:44.42 | fugdnscerd | any ldap gurus in the house? |
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| 16:47.27 | Yusuke | How to grant the folder and all the files so user can write/copy/modify etc |
| 16:48.07 | fugdnscerd | Yusuke: does the user own the folder |
| 16:48.28 | cthuluh | crosswalk: yes |
| 16:48.41 | cthuluh | fugdnscerd: try #ldap? |
| 16:48.46 | Yusuke | Yes its his folder, im a root but i just installed own tcl inside his dir.. but he seem cant run it |
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| 16:49.08 | fyrho | where can i find the makefile used to compile the version of exim4 available via apt-get? |
| 16:49.08 | fugdnscerd | then do chmod -R u+rwx /path/to/folder |
| 16:49.27 | fugdnscerd | or actually its probably because root owns the files |
| 16:49.27 | cthuluh | chown -R user:group folder first |
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| 16:49.38 | fugdnscerd | do what cthuluh said |
| 16:49.54 | Yusuke | what? |
| 16:50.01 | Yusuke | chown -R user:group folder first |
| 16:50.12 | cthuluh | yes, that |
| 16:50.25 | fugdnscerd | chown -R username:groupname /path/to/folder |
| 16:50.35 | Yusuke | thx |
| 16:50.52 | Yusuke | what is groupname? |
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| 16:51.03 | fugdnscerd | the name of the group the user belongs to |
| 16:51.24 | Yusuke | i don't know what group, my vps is only me as root and one user |
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| 16:51.41 | fugdnscerd | cthuluh: thanks for the suggestion, im there and patiently waiting, just thought i would explore other resources |
| 16:52.31 | Yusuke | i don't know what group, my vps is only me as root and one user |
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| 16:53.23 | fugdnscerd | try running groups username |
| 16:54.01 | fugdnscerd | the first group on the list i believe should be the users primary group |
| 16:55.12 | Yusuke | groups username gave me the username back |
| 16:55.25 | Yusuke | so chown -R username:username /path |
| 16:55.27 | Yusuke | is it |
| 16:55.33 | cthuluh | probably |
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| 16:56.08 | fugdnscerd | debian puts users into a private group by the same name by default |
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| 17:08.26 | jmd | I've just upgraded from stable to testing, and now I can't boot. Stuck at "Starting kernel daemon log ...." |
| 17:09.12 | rjj | that doesn't sound like much of an upgrade in the usual sense |
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| 17:09.34 | rjj | sorry, I couldn't help myself |
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| 17:13.29 | squiz0 | I've connected my phone via bluetooth to Debian and I can transfer files, what I want to do now is connect the phone via A2DP to Debian to use my speakers. Which packages or what additional steps I've to do? (I'm using pulseaudio and I had installed pulseaudio-modules-bluetooth) |
| 17:13.37 | webad_13 | could anyone have a look at this dmesg http://pastebin.com/6UJL6DAk, to see if there is something odd that is causing battery drain on sgs2 |
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| 17:13.56 | webad_13 | I know that it is android, but maybe someone who is good with kernels can tell me where to look |
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| 17:17.55 | jhutchins_lt | squiz0: I think that's probably a question of what to do on the phone rather than on Debian. |
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| 17:18.41 | jhutchins_lt | webad_13: There's a general problem with rogue apps draining the battery on those things. |
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| 17:19.45 | squiz0 | jhutchins_lt:: but I've to configure pulseaudio with some manner to route the bluetooth sound to my speakers, isn't it? |
| 17:20.28 | jhutchins_lt | squiz0: No clue. |
| 17:21.14 | webad_13 | jhutchins_lt: I've been trying to identify it for like a week now - the thing is not rooted and I'd rather not do it atm. However, I haven't managed to notice any unusual cpu activity with "top" and at the same time I would notice that phone gets sluggish and hot at the back where processor is. I just want to make sure that it is not kernel issue rather than background app. If I restart it it works fine for some time |
| 17:22.05 | webad_13 | jhutchins_lt: also, in the dmesg I find line CPU1: processor failed to boot, quite often |
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| 17:23.27 | acu | I want to install wheezy in a laptop which has squeeze - in other words I want to install wheeze and completely replace squeeze - any special things besides changing repositories and apt-get update apt-get upgrade ? |
| 17:24.25 | webad_13 | acu: and apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 17:25.08 | acu | webad_13, so it will completely remove squeeze - thank you |
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| 17:26.34 | jhutchins_lt | !squeeze->wheezy |
| 17:26.35 | webad_13 | acu: I did this when I upgraded to sid - haven't had any issues so far (like 6 months) |
| 17:26.49 | jhutchins_lt | dpkg: squeeze->wheezy |
| 17:26.49 | dpkg | First, understand that testing is a pre-release distribution without timely security support and that you will have a bumpy ride; ask me about <moving target> <testing> <testing security>. From /etc/apt/sources.list, remove stable-specific lines like squeeze-updates and backports, and change squeeze to wheezy. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. If you feel you need more instructions, perhaps you should wait a while. |
| 17:28.17 | acu | thx |
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| 17:53.57 | Benkinooby | hi, how much traffic will squid save me in an internet cafe network (5-10 computers, mainly http traffic)? will using noscript, ad-block plus addons on firefox be more effective? |
| 17:54.09 | Benkinooby | i know they do different things |
| 17:54.44 | Benkinooby | i hope that's the right cannel to ask... |
| 17:54.51 | valdyn | Benkinooby: its not |
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| 17:55.56 | Benkinooby | valdyn, hoped to finde some1 with experience on BOTH methods... thx for the hint |
| 17:59.56 | ompaul | Benkinooby: 80% |
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| 18:00.11 | ompaul | until they all go to their gmail then ... |
| 18:01.17 | Benkinooby | ompaul, 80% - what? saving? by squid or by block-addons on firefox?or combination? |
| 18:02.04 | ompaul | squid as long as yoiu have a common demographic who all want to see the same once https gets in there forget it |
| 18:02.21 | ompaul | Benkinooby: and that is the end of the discussion |
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| 18:04.37 | Benkinooby | ompaul, lol, after you quit i had the impression you're quite determined to end discussions :P anyway, thank you for your advice |
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| 18:12.05 | acx0 | does anyone know if ntfs-3g supports file permission modifications while the partition is mounted? or do you have to remount with a new umask? |
| 18:13.55 | fyrho | how can i get the source needed to recompile a package exactly as it is available through apt-get? |
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| 18:15.16 | acx0 | fyrho, you mean apt-get source --compile ? |
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| 18:17.11 | boudiccas | i've just seen this message after doing a sudo apt-get upgrade ... The following packages have been kept back: clementine .......... how do i release it please for upgrading? |
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| 18:18.44 | Deesl | offtopic question: any idea where I can get a type E to type D power plug converter? |
| 18:19.21 | boudiccas | Deesl; amazon? |
| 18:19.33 | Deesl | boudiccas: could not find any... :( |
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| 18:22.14 | fyrho | acx0: thank you for your help, that appears to be working. will doing this compile the code and give a result exactly the same as apt-get install? |
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| 18:22.49 | valdyn | fyrho: read the documentation |
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| 18:23.00 | rly | Is there a file system where I can delete a directory in constant time? |
| 18:23.14 | valdyn | rly: no |
| 18:23.29 | rly | valdyn: why not? |
| 18:23.34 | acx0 | fyrho, it should |
| 18:23.39 | fyrho | valdyn: which documentation should I read? |
| 18:23.40 | GNU\colossus | is there a Debian Squeeze Desktop livecd available that features the bpo kernel and X stack? |
| 18:23.53 | rly | It is not like it is impossible to make a fs like that. |
| 18:23.56 | valdyn | rly: they way rm works is that it recursively deletes, first the files, then the dir itself, so it cant be constant |
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| 18:24.39 | valdyn | rly: and I assume the underlying vfs and system calls work the same way, so no you cant do it without writing a kernel "enhancement" |
| 18:24.40 | rly | valdyn: you mean because of hard and symbolic links? |
| 18:25.08 | valdyn | rly: if you need the "feature", use mv |
| 18:25.28 | fyrho | acx0: will it just compile the source into executables or will it also copy them to the corrent folders? |
| 18:25.39 | rly | valdyn: mv dir /dev/null? |
| 18:25.44 | acx0 | fyrho, it should just compile them |
| 18:25.54 | valdyn | rly: no, mv dir dir.old and delete later |
| 18:25.55 | rly | valdyn: what does that do then? |
| 18:26.17 | rly | valdyn: ah, ok. |
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| 18:27.01 | acx0 | fyrho, but the source will most likely come with a configure script, in which case, if you want to change where it installs to, you can do so by passing the --configure=/install/path option to configure |
| 18:27.32 | acx0 | fyrho, in that case, I would only do 'apt-get source <package>' (no --compile) so that it doesn't compile it for you |
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| 18:28.33 | valdyn | rly: on a second thought, I dont think theres a sane way to even create such a a filesystem |
| 18:28.41 | VladimirZ | anyone here installed maven on debian ? |
| 18:28.44 | valdyn | rly: even outside the limitations of linux |
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| 18:29.38 | acx0 | acx0, if you want to read up more, do 'man apt-get' and search for 'compile', 'source', and 'build-dep' |
| 18:31.29 | rly | valdyn: a fs is just a tree. If you would mark a directory as being 'deleted' and check when you when a file X whether all of its parents don't have the 'deleted' mark, deletion is constant time. |
| 18:31.36 | fyrho | acx0: I had previously downloaded just the source using 'apt-get source' but when I went to compile it, it told me I needed to customize a file which I did, but it would always fail. using the "--compile" option it seems to compile fine, but now I need to figure out how to make the change I need, then install it |
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| 18:31.48 | rly | you want a file X* |
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| 18:32.46 | valdyn | rly: youre not taking into account that the children of a directory have to be traversed on deletion to free up space |
| 18:33.17 | valdyn | rly: unless of course you dont think the freeing of space is part of deletion |
| 18:33.27 | rly | valdyn: you can add those to a list of free space. |
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| 18:33.42 | rly | valdyn: it is just a basic memory allocator. |
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| 18:34.00 | valdyn | rly: "those" is not of constant length |
| 18:34.01 | rly | valdyn: I know, because I implemented such stuff before. :) |
| 18:34.19 | rly | valdyn: the _whole_ directory can be freed. |
| 18:34.39 | rly | valdyn: it doesn't mean that you add everything in it to the list. |
| 18:34.58 | rly | valdyn: you just add the sum of the sizes of all the files to the list with a pointer to that node. |
| 18:35.09 | rly | valdyn: (also a constant time operation) |
| 18:35.09 | VladimirZ | how do I get 3.0.3 maven package |
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| 18:35.37 | valdyn | rly: im not sure what you mean, but im sure you cant create constant delete without throwing away things you need on a modern fs |
| 18:35.42 | Miesco | When is wheezy going to be released? |
| 18:36.03 | valdyn | rly: cant even delete single files in constant time on those modern filesystems |
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| 18:36.43 | rly | valdyn: I don't see any fundamental limitations. |
| 18:37.01 | rly | valdyn: I can imagine some practical limitations, though. |
| 18:37.12 | rly | But those shouldn't matter on modern hardware, I think. |
| 18:37.59 | boudiccas | i've just seen this message after doing a sudo apt-get upgrade ... The following packages have been kept back: clementine .......... how do i release it please for upgrading? |
| 18:38.00 | valdyn | rly: like allowing fragmentation |
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| 18:38.49 | rly | valdyn: you can temporarily allow that according to policies. |
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| 18:39.02 | rly | valdyn: all of the memory allocation techniques apply. |
| 18:39.51 | rly | valdyn: don't you think that file systems are a bad abstraction anyway? |
| 18:40.02 | valdyn | rly: I dont know |
| 18:40.06 | rly | valdyn: a DBMS seems to be much more useful for applications. |
| 18:40.50 | gentz | I'm getting tls handshake fails on a debian system (in chroot environment). also lsof is filled with "lsof: no pwd entry for UID 105". have identical hardware & setup on other boxes that are not giving me issues. what could it be? |
| 18:41.48 | valdyn | gentz: lsof has access to *all* open files on the system but *only* to the specific /etc/passwd file |
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| 18:42.03 | valdyn | gentz: obviously your chroot and main systems /etc/passwd files dont match |
| 18:43.01 | valdyn | gentz: err, i got thats wrong, ignore |
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| 18:43.15 | valdyn | gentz: but the principal issue is the same |
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| 18:46.49 | boudiccas | i've just seen this message after doing a sudo apt-get upgrade ... The following packages have been kept back: clementine .......... how do i release it please for upgrading? |
| 18:47.11 | valdyn | boudiccas: read the apt-get documentation |
| 18:47.27 | nkuttler | !tell boudiccas about kept back |
| 18:47.34 | valdyn | boudiccas: especially the parts explaining upgrade and dist-upgrade |
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| 18:52.32 | gentz | valdyn: the passwd files are the same as the other boxes |
| 18:53.08 | valdyn | gentz: yea, i said i got that wrong |
| 18:53.19 | valdyn | gentz: "pwd" = current working directory |
| 18:54.28 | gentz | valdyn: i scped a directory & it came in w/ user id 1005 & group id 1006. thought it might have soething to do w/ it so i chowned them, but still problem |
| 18:54.56 | valdyn | gentz: lsof cant see the current working directory of processes that run outside the chroot |
| 18:55.01 | rly | How can I add one user which can only read all the files by user bob? |
| 18:55.39 | valdyn | rly: you cant |
| 18:55.40 | rly | Just add a user which is also in the bob group? |
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| 18:56.04 | valdyn | rly: no, you cant, bob can own files that have a different group |
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| 18:56.25 | rly | valdyn: how/why? |
| 18:56.50 | valdyn | rly: or bob can own files that have bob group but no group rw permission |
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| 18:58.17 | valdyn | rly: touch test; chmod go-rwx test |
| 18:59.24 | rly | valdyn: but that means that a 'backup user' is basically useless and that you need to open up ssh for root essentially. |
| 18:59.35 | valdyn | rly: yes |
| 18:59.44 | rly | valdyn: but that stinks :) |
| 19:00.16 | rly | These things really give the impression that nobody thought about these things. |
| 19:00.19 | valdyn | rly: standard permissions are easy, thats their point. You can use acl if you want |
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| 19:00.53 | rly | valdyn: well, likely I want that then. Is there any ACL option available by default? |
| 19:01.15 | wolfric | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=605061 what does this final log mean? Does it mean it's been put off fixing until a higher version of debian? |
| 19:01.17 | valdyn | !acl |
| 19:01.17 | dpkg | i heard acl is Access Control List. http://acl.bestbits.at/ http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/agbs/live/acl_eng.html http://www.suse.de/~agruen/acl/linux-acls/online/ |
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| 19:02.33 | rly | valdyn: that doesn't give much confidence: old links and a link to a different OS. |
| 19:02.55 | valdyn | rly: i dont use ACL, theres plenty documentation out there on google |
| 19:02.58 | twock | HELO! |
| 19:03.14 | valdyn | rly: but ACL support in linux is more than a decade old. That does not make it outdated |
| 19:03.18 | rly | valdyn: yeah, there is. I will have a look. |
| 19:03.28 | valdyn | rly: nor does it neccessarily make the documentation outdated |
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| 19:07.38 | wolfric | what is debian's policy if a bug is found with a package? do the stable packages just get left with bugs and then the fixes come out in the next version? |
| 19:08.05 | rly | valdyn: is there any official documentation for this stuff too? |
| 19:08.28 | rly | valdyn: I only find random blog posts by people that just copied other people's blogposts. |
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| 19:11.17 | valdyn | rly: http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/acl.htm |
| 19:11.32 | acu | I installed Wheezy in a Laptop AMD at reboot there is no screen - even if I choose recovery mode - any hints ? |
| 19:11.36 | rly | valdyn: I read that already. The Debian Wiki is better. |
| 19:11.51 | rly | valdyn: thanks. |
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| 19:20.47 | acu | I install wheezy and have no screen, the grub starts - I choose wheezy but there is no screen can anyone tell me how would I know what IP it grabed from DHCP so I can access it through ssh ? |
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| 19:21.50 | s70rm | why wheezy |
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| 19:23.01 | acu | <PROTECTED> |
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| 19:23.38 | JPT | acu: the dhcp server will know. ask him :) |
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| 19:25.24 | acu | JPT: how should I ask, that was the question - the DHCP is a Tenda Router, with minimal web interfaces tools - |
| 19:26.04 | myself | anyone know a data recovery tool? |
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| 19:26.47 | JPT | maybe the web interface tells the last used dhcp leases ;) |
| 19:26.50 | nkuttler | myself: your backup... anyway, which filesystem? |
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| 19:28.54 | myself | I've done, it's my mistake have deleted some files thinking I 'll have not need it! filesystem ext3 and fat... |
| 19:29.16 | myself | nkuttler: I'm using photorec, but the files are not supported by it |
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| 19:29.38 | asarch | Why do I get "Invalid command 'FastCgiExternalServer', perhaps misspelled or defined by a module not included in the server configuration" every time I /etc/init.d/apache2 restart |
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| 19:34.10 | acu | how can I do apt-get install linux-headers- 'uname -r' ? |
| 19:34.41 | syslq | acu: replace ' ' with $() |
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| 19:34.52 | syslq | acu: or with `` |
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| 19:36.39 | acu | is just weird - I installed wheezy in a laptop - from todays download and there is no GUI at all (well beside the GRUB - I can't go in it - luckily I can go trhourh ssh - I know is an ATI vga card - so I can install the proprietary driver - hopfully willl work |
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| 19:40.18 | guardian | hmm maybe it's a dumb question but better ask it: is there risk allowing users of a server i'm setting up to define vhosts themselves, by allowing them to write their own ~/nginx.conf? |
| 19:40.30 | jmd | I need some help getting my system working again after doing dist-upgrade. |
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| 19:40.46 | acu | jmd: be more specific |
| 19:40.52 | jmd | The first problem is, no WLAN. does anyone know how to fix it? |
| 19:40.59 | JPT | guardian: it depends on how much you can do with that file... they might mess with your whole webserver |
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| 19:41.13 | acu | jmd: almost everyone here |
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| 19:41.42 | jmd | I rather doubt that. |
| 19:41.46 | acu | lol |
| 19:41.51 | acu | based on what ? |
| 19:42.11 | jmd | it's a very specialised thing. |
| 19:42.25 | guardian | JPT: well yeah might be the case :) |
| 19:42.29 | guardian | JPT: so bad idea |
| 19:43.36 | JPT | yup |
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| 19:44.09 | acu | jmd: just ask your questions - first - what wifi card do you have ? lscpi ...... and see for wirelees ..... second: see if is already there /sbin/ifconfig -------- 3) iwconfig - will give you what wireless devices you have |
| 19:44.35 | jmd | its a netgear I think. |
| 19:44.56 | acu | jmd: from 1215 people, I would bet 800 are accomplished professionals, this is trivial for anyone using linux for one year |
| 19:45.04 | jmd | and obviously the devices are empty otherwise I wouldn't have come here for help. |
| 19:45.05 | acu | jmd: netgear what ? |
| 19:45.10 | acu | lol |
| 19:45.16 | jmd | I have no idea. |
| 19:45.48 | jmd | acu I have been using linux for 15 years. It's certainly far from trivial to me. |
| 19:45.52 | acu | jmd: first learn to read what I asked you for - as root - you should to lscpi iwconfig /sbin/ifconfig |
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| 19:46.12 | jmd | and then? |
| 19:46.19 | acu | what is the lspci giving you ? |
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| 19:46.53 | jmd | about 15 lines of info |
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| 19:47.53 | jmd | Only one seems to be related to WIFI |
| 19:47.56 | acu | jmd: are you jocking ? how someone can help you if you do not read what they say to you - IS THERE A WIRELESS entry ? |
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| 19:48.07 | acu | !paste |
| 19:48.08 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ http://paste.pocoo.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>, <lodgeit.py>. |
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| 19:48.27 | JPT | xD |
| 19:48.33 | jmd | Like I said. One seems to be related to wireless |
| 19:48.46 | tensorpudding | you should paste it so we can see, then |
| 19:49.05 | rypervenche | facepalms. |
| 19:49.20 | jmd | tensorpudding, how can I paste it, when I haven't got a working network to that machine? |
| 19:49.43 | JPT | maybe you plugged in a magic ethernet cable? :D |
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| 19:49.48 | JPT | i'd do that |
| 19:49.54 | tensorpudding | maybe you typed it word for word instead |
| 19:50.11 | tensorpudding | maybe you save the output to a file, and copied the file on some removable media |
| 19:50.20 | tensorpudding | to whatever machine you're using now |
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| 19:51.05 | jmd | It says: "01:00.0 Ethernet controller:: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88w8335 [Libertas} 802.11b/g Wireless (rev 03)" |
| 19:51.14 | tensorpudding | that would seem to be wifi |
| 19:51.18 | jmd | Or something similar. |
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| 19:52.09 | tensorpudding | not terribly new, so it's probably supported somehow |
| 19:52.14 | JPT | http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/wireless-internet/114655-wifi-driver-problem-netgear.html <-- awesome how googling a device from lspci actually starts to help :) |
| 19:52.19 | JPT | @jmd |
| 19:52.23 | tensorpudding | mrv8k? |
| 19:52.43 | tensorpudding | that is the name i see for a kernel driver for the 8k marvel chipsets |
| 19:52.44 | jmd | Of course it is supported. OR was. Like I said, everthing was working before apt-get dist-upgrade. |
| 19:53.04 | jmd | I just want to know how to get it working again. |
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| 19:53.23 | tensorpudding | you must have updated your kernel |
| 19:53.29 | tensorpudding | how did you obtain the driver before |
| 19:53.43 | jmd | I cannot remember that was a long time ago. |
| 19:53.46 | tensorpudding | tell us if mrv8k appears in the output of the command 'lsmod' |
| 19:54.03 | haqe17 | When logging in (from a vt, and also in xterms) the password failure timeout is far too long (like around 3 secs). How can I reduce it? |
| 19:54.18 | jmd | No. It's not mentioned in lsmod |
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| 19:57.16 | tensorpudding | hmm |
| 19:57.22 | tensorpudding | jmd, what kernel are you running |
| 19:57.32 | tensorpudding | 2.6.32? |
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| 19:58.06 | jmd | 3.1.0 |
| 19:58.20 | tensorpudding | wheezy? |
| 19:58.49 | jmd | wheezy/sid |
| 19:59.29 | tensorpudding | which one |
| 20:00.02 | tensorpudding | it doesn't particularly matter, this channel isn't for supporting either |
| 20:00.17 | jmd | The version file says "wheezy/sid" |
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| 20:01.38 | tensorpudding | they're supported in #debian-next on oftc |
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| 20:02.07 | jmd | How do I downgrade then back to squeeze ? |
| 20:02.14 | tensorpudding | you can't |
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| 20:04.53 | dontbe | hello, someone knows if kfreebsd will enable dbus and sshagent for my desktop user by default ? |
| 20:05.19 | dontbe | I'm repeating too much killing them at every login |
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| 20:05.55 | dontbe | and using a WM and setting no suggests and not recommends does not help... everything starts depending on dbus etc |
| 20:06.27 | tensorpudding | why do you want dbus to not start |
| 20:06.34 | *** join/#debian shanepardue (~quassel@c-24-2-14-26.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.40 | dontbe | why do I want it ? |
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| 20:07.02 | dontbe | I mean... I know why I want irqbalance, or ntpo, or other daemons |
| 20:07.14 | dontbe | but linux seems to be flying far of the kiss principle of unix |
| 20:07.17 | dontbe | so my question |
| 20:07.42 | dontbe | is udev and dbus used in debian/kfreebsd ? |
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| 20:08.04 | tensorpudding | dbus is not at all particular to linux, i imagine that kfreebsd uses it fine |
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| 20:08.23 | tensorpudding | i doubt it uses udev though |
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| 20:08.42 | dontbe | thanks for the info |
| 20:10.53 | dontbe | tensorpudding: I really can't answer to "why don't" with a convincing sentence... really I've been running by years under my desktops |
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| 20:12.17 | dontbe | maybe I think "it's unneded in a unix like system", but I use to thing too many wrong things |
| 20:13.04 | dontbe | s/thing/think/ |
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| 20:14.49 | crosswalk | Would setting up an ssh server for my desktop allow me to copy files to and from my laptop? I'm trying to think of better ways of doing file copies instead of using flash drives and cd's. |
| 20:15.19 | dontbe | yes, using scp |
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| 20:15.23 | dontbe | or even rsync over ssh |
| 20:15.47 | dontbe | if it's a "secure" network (i.e. your lan without wifi) you can use rsyncd instead of ssh |
| 20:16.02 | crosswalk | I've never used ssh and I figured now would be an appropriate time since I now have two machines I would like to do work on. |
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| 20:17.41 | dontbe | crosswalk: ssh can transfer files using scp (it's like cp, scp SRC DST, like in scp file user@host:/the/path/to/store/, or scp -r for recursive copy) |
| 20:18.06 | dontbe | crosswalk: there is also the FUSE driver that allows to mount remote filesystems over a ssh daemon |
| 20:18.07 | lethu | hello |
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| 20:18.50 | crosswalk | dontbe: I'll read up on the man pages for it. I've never actually used anything to communicate between different machines with Debian. =/ |
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| 20:18.53 | macrobat | hello lethu, welcome to #debian, the friendly channel! |
| 20:19.39 | crosswalk | dontbe: Or at all for that matter. |
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| 20:20.07 | dontbe | crosswalk: while you don't expose your sshd to internet or wifi, you can try with just apt-get install. If you want a serious service, of course, man sshd_config after install |
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| 20:20.39 | dontbe | crosswalk: there are also more protocols to share files, even you can share files between windows, mac and linux with samba, nfs, webdav... |
| 20:20.45 | lethu | I am using a debian(lenny) based distro, after adding the squeeze repos so that I can update google-chrome dependencies I got stuck with libgconf2-4 which if marked for update wants to remove a good load of packages, of which the desktop environment (e17) |
| 20:20.51 | macrobat | crosswalk: i like sshfs. it's nice and easy to work with |
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| 20:21.35 | macrobat | lethu: you may have to go to the channel of that distro |
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| 20:21.45 | lethu | macrobat, it's dead |
| 20:21.59 | lethu | no support |
| 20:22.17 | macrobat | i suggest backing up and installing a real debian |
| 20:22.55 | lethu | macrobat, I cannot do that anymore, as I have payed for the distro I am using |
| 20:23.22 | lethu | macrobat, the distro is elive |
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| 20:23.35 | nkuttler | !elive |
| 20:23.35 | dpkg | Elive (Enlightenment live CD) is a desktop distribution <based on Debian>, featuring the <Enlightenment> window manager. It is not Debian and thus not supported in #debian. http://www.elivecd.org/ #elive on irc.freenode.net. |
| 20:23.47 | thisthat | lol |
| 20:23.54 | macrobat | mixing lenny and squeeze is a bad idea, anyway |
| 20:24.19 | lethu | thisthat, I hope you are enjoying yourself |
| 20:24.22 | crosswalk | dontbe: Will both my desktop and laptop require the ssh package or just the one I'll be using the client on? |
| 20:24.27 | lethu | ok, nevermind |
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| 20:24.36 | thisthat | what that was funny |
| 20:24.49 | dontbe | crosswalk: there are more than one ssh package, you have openssh-server and -client packages |
| 20:25.08 | thisthat | never even heard of elive |
| 20:25.09 | dontbe | crosswalk: the laptop can live without the daemon running |
| 20:25.17 | crosswalk | dontbe: I just installed the openssh-server and ssh packages. |
| 20:25.56 | dontbe | ssh is a "metapackage" (an empty package) that "Depends: openssh-client, openssh-serve" |
| 20:26.36 | dontbe | crosswalk: if you installing something you do not want, you can always apt-get remove --purge thatpackage |
| 20:26.58 | dontbe | installed |
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| 20:30.36 | magesing | Hi everyone, CUPS, SAMBA and my brother MFC-8440 have me at my whits end here. When I try and print from my debian box (the print server) it works from lpr, but if I try and print from chromium-browser, the printout says ERROR NAME; undefined COMMAND; Q OPERAND STACK; . Sometimes the first printout after a new boot says ERROR NAME; configurationerror COMMAND; setpagedevice OPERANDSTACK; --dicttype-- How can I get my printer to work for ever |
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| 20:32.04 | crosswalk | I feel as if I had any idea about networking this wouldn't seem like such an intimidating thing to do. |
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| 20:34.47 | dontbe | crosswalk: setting up a sshd is just an apt-get command... configuring it requires get used, browse and try the doc, etc... not a "one day" or "five minuttes" thing, but if you're playing at home in a non-producction env, don't fear to play with it, it's the best way to learn for me |
| 20:35.36 | dontbe | sure next thing to install it, you want to learn about password-less ssh/scp |
| 20:36.05 | dontbe | ssh-keygen and ssh-copy-id |
| 20:36.45 | crosswalk | dontbe: Keeping my home network and machines secure is the only thing I would be worried about. I'm completely ignorant to how remote applications work. |
| 20:37.18 | dontbe | securing it is adapt configuration options to your ussage case |
| 20:37.57 | crosswalk | dontbe: I'll do as you advise and read and just play around with it. It's something I need to know how to do and it would make using both my machines a little bit easier. |
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| 20:38.39 | dontbe | the more fun thing of ssh is no to transfer files (encription and handsakes make it a bit slower than others) |
| 20:38.47 | dontbe | for me the fun of ssh is to run remote commands |
| 20:39.14 | dontbe | vi script; ssh user@host < script |
| 20:39.32 | dontbe | or ssh user@host remotecmd |
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| 20:41.02 | dontbe | crosswalk: securitty is a proccess, sshd_config and ~/.ssh/config have many security-related options |
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| 20:41.23 | dontbe | i.e. if you're not to forward Xorg applications, you should disable it |
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| 20:41.40 | dontbe | or if the server have 3 eths but you need to listen only in one of them, etc |
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| 20:42.51 | crosswalk | Apparently ssh does a heck of a lot more than I thought it did. |
| 20:43.43 | exaviorn | Hi, I'm getting this error when I run cros_sdk (to install the chroot enviroment for chromeos): http://pastebin.com/fqkWQypx on Debian 6 64bit (OpenVZ virtualised) http://code.google.com/p/chromium-os/issues/detail?id=19871 suggests that I "bindmount /run/shm to chroot/run/shm" how would I do that? |
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| 20:45.39 | dontbe | exaviorn: bind is a option of mount |
| 20:45.49 | dontbe | the issue is that you will need mkdir /run if it does not exist |
| 20:46.21 | dontbe | mkdir /run; mount -o bind /dev/shm /run/shm; chroot /run/shm # if everything worked, you're now into the new /root |
| 20:46.45 | exaviorn | dontbe: ok, trying now |
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| 20:47.31 | dontbe | stops talking about systems and issues that does not know, and goes to have some dinner |
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| 20:51.27 | Salvatore65 | sera |
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| 20:53.56 | slugzzz | Hey all.. I want to install the ubuntu ambience theme on debian etch. Can someone help me out? |
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| 20:54.32 | slugzzz | Err... squeeze... I mean... |
| 20:54.34 | slugzzz | Not etch. |
| 20:55.35 | nsadmin | slugzzz, you could try taking the ubuntu package apart, reading the maint scripts and manually move the files into place |
| 20:56.01 | slugzzz | Hmmm.... there's gotta be an easier way.... |
| 20:56.02 | nsadmin | you can also try getting the ubuntu-ized source, and build the .deb and install that |
| 20:56.10 | nsadmin | neither guaranteed to work |
| 20:56.28 | slugzzz | What about just moving the window min / max/ exit buttons to the left... I can deal with that. |
| 20:56.33 | nsadmin | but the latter is easier |
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| 20:57.31 | ponyofdeath | hi, im trying to get my btrfs filesystem mounted at boot from fstab but it seems that it failes. any idea what i have to do to get it to mount at boot? |
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| 20:58.06 | nsadmin | slugzzz, I have no idea for that... this theme is installable in what context? |
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| 20:59.48 | tp43_ | i am trying to setup my mic: http://pastebin.com/uTm065ne |
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| 21:02.46 | nsadmin | 88: [ 2- 0]: digital audio capture <-- that? |
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| 21:06.46 | tp43_ | nsadmin, yeah of course, but what about on my system |
| 21:07.06 | tp43_ | anyone can decipher this: arecord -c1 -Dplughw:2,0 -f cd -vv /dev/null |
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| 21:08.41 | tp43_ | I guess I'll just install gnome-alsamixer |
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| 21:09.35 | Zap-W | hi |
| 21:10.09 | nsadmin | tp43_, look at man arecord, the switches are all there, just look for each one |
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| 21:11.02 | nsadmin | that should be a prerequisite for getting an answer here, because in reading that you become informed and therefore questions after that will also be |
| 21:11.04 | nsadmin | informed |
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| 21:11.29 | tp43_ | nsadmin, who made you the boss |
| 21:11.57 | zaltekk | is there a way to mute the master volume channel in alsamixer after the update that split out headphone and speaker channels? |
| 21:12.05 | *** join/#debian RiotingPacifist- (~xBehave@2.27.75.133) |
| 21:12.07 | nsadmin | maybe you'd choose to let that go in favor of spending your energy on WHAT YOU WANT |
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| 21:12.32 | zaltekk | none of them have the [75] box with the volume level that can toggle to [MM] for mute |
| 21:12.34 | tp43_ | nsadmin, calm down, take it easy |
| 21:12.37 | zaltekk | and pressing m doesn't do anything |
| 21:12.54 | nsadmin | I'm not telling you wnat to do, rather I'm stating what I won't do |
| 21:13.34 | nsadmin | !cooperation in asking for help |
| 21:13.35 | dpkg | When asking for help, try to give as much relevant information as possible as well as reading cited documentation. Ask me about <sicco> and <research>. |
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| 21:14.03 | tp43_ | there's no experts around, its too early in the day |
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| 21:19.09 | nsadmin | tp43_, you need to grow into being your own expert (NOTICE I'm -not- saying you need to be expert now/immediately, and I AM saying you have to start from where you are, and make single points of improvement toward what you want) |
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| 21:19.21 | tp43_ | nsadmin, screw off jackass |
| 21:19.42 | nsadmin | nice one |
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| 21:20.06 | tp43_ | yeah, get it? go get a clue, friggin tard |
| 21:20.21 | eigar | what is that boot thingy for ubuntu called? Not grub but the other one (that do mounting etc) |
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| 21:20.31 | Guest75349 | fstab ? |
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| 21:20.39 | jhutchins | eigar: lilo? |
| 21:20.41 | tp43_ | init |
| 21:20.42 | Flash_ | ubuntu? |
| 21:20.52 | unreal-dude | grub2? |
| 21:21.02 | unreal-dude | o wait, thats got grub in it.... |
| 21:21.05 | eigar | Flash_: heh, wrong # . |
| 21:21.29 | Flash_ | which of the above did you mean? |
| 21:21.57 | eigar | none of them, I'll ask #ubuntu |
| 21:22.28 | Flash_ | aww, you tease. I'm curious now. |
| 21:22.31 | nsadmin | at this point, you've been given a way to find out yourself what you asked about. You refusing makes me feel annoyed, and not really motivated to help. if you want to be helped, you need to examine in yourself your motivations toward depending on someone else to do what can only be called reading to you. |
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| 21:25.24 | ner0x | How can I update my flash player. I keep getting "my flash player plugin is out of date" error in chrome. |
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| 21:25.48 | unreal-dude | chrome up to date? |
| 21:26.03 | unreal-dude | *everything |
| 21:26.08 | ner0x | Yes. |
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| 21:26.40 | unreal-dude | try installing from adobe's site |
| 21:26.57 | ner0x | I wanted to avoid that since all my other machines work fine. |
| 21:27.06 | ner0x | But I can, if I must. |
| 21:27.22 | unreal-dude | i sometimes have that issue |
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| 21:27.40 | unreal-dude | never really looked into it much, just went to adobe |
| 21:27.50 | jhutchins | ner0x: How did you install it in the first place? |
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| 21:28.47 | ner0x | aptitude |
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| 21:32.24 | somiaj | ner0x: so you have flashplugin-nonfree installed on your system? That contains strips to get the recent version from adobe |
| 21:32.48 | nsadmin | is there an equiv to synaptic that uses qt? |
| 21:33.06 | somiaj | ner0x: update-flashplugin-nonfree is the script that will update your flash version. |
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| 21:36.57 | robokop | nsadmin: adept |
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| 21:38.01 | nsadmin | robokop, thanks :) I normally use cli for everything, I'm looking to see what the gui stuff has... so I'll be trying adept (agn, tnx) and synaptic |
| 21:38.33 | robokop | debtags grep admin::package-management | fgrep uitoolkit::qt <-- for the cli way to find that :P |
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| 21:41.31 | robokop | ow, should have read the debtags manpage for expresions and how to build them, debtags search 'admin::package-management && uitoolkit::qt' is even nicer to use |
| 21:42.34 | nsadmin | robokop, I'm totally new to debtags... but, that's great! it looks like you can search for any category and see if it uses qt or whatever ui |
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| 21:43.09 | robokop | or whatever else you want that is described in the tags |
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| 21:44.50 | nsadmin | if it's anything like expressions applicable to find, I'll be alright |
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| 21:45.39 | eigar | it was plymouth by the way. (That boot thingy). Trying to figure out what it does (other then irritate me) |
| 21:46.35 | nsadmin | it seems similar to the categories under which packages are put in, as presented by (say) packages.debian.org |
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| 21:47.03 | nsadmin | eigar, looks like both of us could stand to look into debtags |
| 21:47.34 | robokop | nsadmin: aren't those the sections? not sure though |
| 21:48.06 | nsadmin | forgot what the divisions are actually called... "category" describes the idea |
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| 22:05.54 | jhutchins | nsadmin: Don't forget the menued mode of aptitude |
| 22:06.55 | nsadmin | yes, seen that :) |
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| 22:27.00 | wolfric | why on earth does host require perl to be installed |
| 22:27.01 | wolfric | package "host" |
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| 22:30.20 | dondelelcaro | wolfric: apt-rdepends bind9-host |
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| 22:35.40 | Vasistha | is this a good chan in which to ask for packaging help? I need to make a few .deb's to distribute to several computers. |
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| 22:36.13 | dondelelcaro | Vasistha: here on #debian-mentors on OFTC |
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| 22:36.31 | dondelelcaro | Vasistha: though in general, most of the people who will help are interested in packages which will be distributed in Debian |
| 22:36.33 | Vasistha | dondelelcaro: "on" = "or" ? |
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| 22:37.43 | Vasistha | dondelelcaro: well, that's sensible. I just have to roll in a few custom changes to the free pascal compiler to be used by the development team, and it would be oh-so-nice to distribute debs. maybe there's a FAQ or HowTo somewhere |
| 22:37.58 | dondelelcaro | Vasistha: yes, or |
| 22:38.02 | Vasistha | heh thanks |
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| 22:39.37 | zombifyme | hi, I have a strange problem with audio... only the left speaker works. I checked alsamixer and both channels have volume up... |
| 22:40.40 | zombifyme | I think I may have a wrong "model" in some alsa .conf file,. though I really don't know how to proceed |
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| 22:40.53 | Vasistha | zombifyme: are you certain it's not a hardware issue? |
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| 22:41.56 | zombifyme | yes, speakers work when connected to my laptop, which is on debian too, and audio on alsa works there out of the box |
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| 22:42.04 | leon21 | hello, does debian have a live cd with gnome 3? |
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| 22:44.38 | leon21 | does anyone know? |
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| 22:44.59 | zombifyme | Vasistha: and the "nVidia Corporation CK804 AC'97 Audio Controller (rev a2)" which is integrated sound card works fine too, on windows |
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| 22:45.45 | Vasistha | !tell leon21 -about livecd |
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| 22:46.32 | Alpha-Omega | is there any way to check CPU and MOBO temps if sensors doesn't work? |
| 22:46.49 | jsoft_ | get a thermometer |
| 22:47.02 | Alpha-Omega | :P |
| 22:47.04 | Alpha-Omega | any other way? |
| 22:47.14 | Guest75349 | alpha-omega: you could check if they show up in the bios |
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| 22:47.17 | Alpha-Omega | i mean I'm thinking CPUZ would work under windows |
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| 22:47.27 | chalcedony | on Yahoo mail, i'm getting attachments that I can't open or find. the window says: Opening #channelname_somefile.log which is a: application log from http://ne1.attach.mail.ymail.com - how do i get to the file (on debian squeeze) |
| 22:47.46 | Alpha-Omega | Guest75349, only thing is in the BIOS is it showing up as under a load |
| 22:47.52 | Alpha-Omega | or just ideling/ |
| 22:47.53 | chalcedony | that should be a log = text |
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| 22:49.57 | Vasistha | chalcedony: what web browser are you using? |
| 22:50.12 | Guest75349 | I've used ipmitool to check temps before, but it was on a server that supported some fancier monitoring options |
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| 22:50.25 | chalcedony | Vasistha, iceweasel |
| 22:50.30 | Alpha-Omega | Guest75349, no other way right? for some reason sensors doesn't show the temps |
| 22:51.23 | Vasistha | zombifyme: I wonder if there might be a balance setting somewhere that is throwing things off. You said you're certain it's not a hardware issue, but are you sure there might not be a problem with the jack? |
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| 22:55.58 | jhutchins | zombifyme: could be a bad jack. |
| 22:56.10 | chalcedony | Vasistha, it did this with files from my husband on ubuntu/yahoo mail also |
| 22:57.24 | Vasistha | chalcedony: hmm, I wonder if there is an issue with the file opening script because the filename starts with '#' |
| 22:57.39 | Vasistha | chalcedony: I'm not sure where iceweasel's default download directory is |
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| 22:58.10 | chalcedony | iceweasel seems to be the default browser in debian |
| 22:58.15 | Vasistha | chalcedony: you can maybe find it with this command: find ~ -name '*channelname_somefile.log*' |
| 22:58.24 | chalcedony | hmmm |
| 22:58.43 | jsoft_ | chalcedony: yeah its just firefox |
| 22:58.50 | chalcedony | what i know is it's not in /tmp |
| 22:58.55 | Vasistha | chalcedony: I know that is probably not the answer you wanted. someone who actually uses iceweasel might be able to answer it more easily |
| 22:58.59 | chalcedony | which is where firefox used to put them |
| 22:59.04 | Vasistha | chalcedony: it might be in ~/Desktop or something |
| 22:59.09 | jhutchins | chalcedony: Could be a java thing. |
| 22:59.14 | jsoft_ | I find it to be ~/Downloads |
| 22:59.18 | chalcedony | hmmmmm |
| 22:59.28 | chalcedony | i tried to update java and got lost in it |
| 22:59.36 | jsoft_ | loathes java |
| 22:59.38 | chalcedony | it has java.. just an older one |
| 22:59.45 | jhutchins | yeah, ~/Downloads is where firefox/iceweasel puts stuff by default. |
| 23:00.03 | jhutchins | How about that, iceweasel is in the spellcheck dictionary. |
| 23:00.05 | Vasistha | java is one of the top security liabilities! |
| 23:00.07 | chalcedony | ~$ cd /Downloads |
| 23:00.09 | chalcedony | bash: cd: /Downloads: No such file or directory |
| 23:00.26 | unforgiven512 | So it seems that GNOME 3.2 is really close to fully hitting testing |
| 23:00.26 | jhutchins | chalcedony: Correct, /Downloads does not exist. |
| 23:00.27 | Vasistha | jhutchins: the spellcheck dictionary packaged by debian? :) |
| 23:00.29 | jsoft_ | Vasistha: ... I dont know much about java's security. |
| 23:00.42 | jsoft_ | Vasistha: I just hate how bloated and mad it is. |
| 23:00.44 | jhutchins | Vasistha: Yes, of course. |
| 23:00.58 | Vasistha | chalcedony: you missed the ~ |
| 23:01.00 | unforgiven512 | Oh, and I don't know if any of you were here yesterday, when I was getting random crashes with gnome-shell |
| 23:02.38 | jhutchins | chalcedony: ~/Downloads == /home/<user>/Downloads |
| 23:02.39 | jsoft_ | what's gnome-shell? |
| 23:02.39 | chalcedony | cd Downloads :) |
| 23:02.39 | Vasistha | there ya go |
| 23:02.39 | chalcedony | er ls Downloads |
| 23:02.39 | Guest75349 | Does Gnome 3.2 offer anything cool? |
| 23:02.39 | jsoft_ | cd ~/Downloads |
| 23:02.39 | jhutchins | !gnole3 |
| 23:02.39 | jhutchins | !gnome3 |
| 23:02.39 | dpkg | GNOME 3 is the new and not yet complete version of the GNOME desktop environment. Bits of it are starting to work their way into Debian testing and wheezy will release with it. See http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.2-status.html for details. Also ask me about <install gnome>, <gnome-shell>. http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2011/04/msg00111.html |
| 23:02.39 | jsoft_ | !gnome3 |
| 23:02.39 | unforgiven512 | But, I figured out the problem -- it was pidgin -- the way it was attempting to draw buddy icons/avatars on the pop-up notifications was causing issues with the graphics drivers. |
| 23:02.39 | Vasistha | jsoft_: it's some sort of framework for accepting extensions to gnome. giyf :) |
| 23:02.39 | chalcedony | heh |
| 23:02.39 | unforgiven512 | I've gotten used to gnome-shell over time |
| 23:02.39 | zombifyme | Vasistha: jhutchins: but why would it work on Windows then? I tried alsamixer and I tried a few apps like aplay, mplayer, mocp, etc, but since they all seem to be using alsa, they all work the same, as in - left speaker only. |
| 23:02.39 | Vasistha | chalcedony: find it? |
| 23:02.39 | unforgiven512 | I still feel as if I prefer gnome2 though |
| 23:02.40 | jhutchins | !alsa checklist |
| 23:02.40 | dpkg | 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out and log in again) 2) use alsamixer to unmute channels and raise levels (also try muting some channels & toggle jack sense if available) 3) arts or esound stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) modprobe snd-pcm-oss 7) squeeze: purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>. |
| 23:02.41 | chalcedony | Vasistha, yes and a few other things i had problems with : install_flash_player_11_linux.x86_64.tar.gz |
| 23:02.41 | jhutchins | alsa isn't in the spellcheck lib |
| 23:02.50 | Guest75349 | I was disappointed when I first tried gnome 3 |
| 23:02.53 | Vasistha | unforgiven512: well you will certainly not be the only one with that opinion |
| 23:03.14 | Vasistha | chalcedony: no, you don't want a tar.gz |
| 23:03.26 | Vasistha | chalcedony: you can get it from debian-multimedia, it's already packaged for debian |
| 23:03.35 | chalcedony | oh :) |
| 23:03.36 | jsoft_ | chalcedony: bro, adjust the apt sources |
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| 23:03.46 | jhutchins | !adobe flash |
| 23:03.46 | dpkg | Adobe Flash Player is <non-free>. The easiest way to install it is with the flashplugin-nonfree <contrib> package for squeeze and upwards or lenny-backports. There is also a flashplayer-mozilla package in <dmm> (non-free section). WARNING: installing flashplugin-nonfree will NOT automatically keep the plugin updated. Read more on http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer . See also <flash amd64>, <bdo>, <dmm>. |
| 23:03.48 | jsoft_ | for non-free and you can get the flash-plugin-nonfree or whatever it is |
| 23:04.05 | chalcedony | wow ok |
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| 23:04.36 | jhutchins | chalcedony: It doesn't update automatically, you need to periodically run update-flashplugin-nonfree --install |
| 23:04.45 | Vasistha | chalcedony: flash is kind of a special case of idiocy. sorry. |
| 23:04.47 | mactimes | Howdy! I'm trying to access a Memory Stick Pro Duo on my notebook, it just won't auto mount. Would someone, please help me out on this? |
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| 23:05.10 | Vasistha | mactimes: can you bring up a bash / command prompt? |
| 23:05.11 | jsoft_ | Doesnt html5 have some kind of provision for flash-like multimedia? |
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| 23:05.26 | mactimes | Vasistha Sure. |
| 23:05.31 | Vasistha | jsoft_: yes but there are still lots of old web sites that are still using flash. it will take some time........ |
| 23:05.32 | mactimes | Vasistha Already open. |
| 23:05.40 | Vasistha | mactimes: first type 'mount' |
| 23:05.50 | Vasistha | mactimes: ...and we can see if it's already mounted ;) |
| 23:05.52 | jsoft_ | Vasistha: Yeah no doubt. |
| 23:05.53 | Guest75349 | html5 introduced canvas and video tags that can do flash like stuff |
| 23:06.05 | jsoft_ | Vasistha: it will be super deluxe though to see flash kicked out the back door |
| 23:06.15 | mactimes | Vasistha It's not. Only my external USB HD and local filesystems |
| 23:06.17 | zombifyme | though on Squeeze I never seem to be able to install flashplugin-nonfree package properly, it fails on wget not downloading something, and then running update-flashplugin-nonfree --install really installs it properly. |
| 23:06.19 | Vasistha | how good is html5 for e.g. flash-based games? |
| 23:06.30 | jsoft_ | Vasistha: I have no idea |
| 23:06.47 | Vasistha | mactimes: alright, cool. btw is your goal to mount this time, or set up automount? of course our first step will be to mount once |
| 23:07.08 | mactimes | Vasistha Can be both. Mount now and automount always would be nice. |
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| 23:07.28 | Vasistha | mactimes: anyway, do you know what the device is? e.g. /dev/sdb or... ? |
| 23:07.39 | Vasistha | mactimes: if not then you can do this as root: fdisk -l |
| 23:07.54 | Vasistha | (and if you've got lvm or encryption then you will see quite a mess) |
| 23:08.11 | mactimes | Vasistha It won't show up on fdisk -l |
| 23:08.23 | Vasistha | mactimes: oh? |
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| 23:08.30 | Vasistha | mactimes: you're sure? |
| 23:08.30 | mactimes | Vasistha The SD reader can be seen on lspci, though |
| 23:08.36 | mactimes | Vasistha Pretty sure, yeah. |
| 23:08.59 | Guest75349 | mactimes: maybe try another usb port? |
| 23:09.21 | Vasistha | mactimes: what is a "memory stick pro duo" anyway? |
| 23:09.22 | mactimes | Guest75349 I can't. It's the notebook build-in reader. |
| 23:09.37 | mactimes | Vasistha It's a card reader. |
| 23:09.48 | Vasistha | Guest75349: gosh your nick is hard to tab complete. |
| 23:10.01 | Vasistha | mactimes: and what card are you trying to read? |
| 23:10.19 | mactimes | Vasistha Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo 2GB. |
| 23:10.42 | Vasistha | mactimes: well you can try this: dmesg | grep -i Sony |
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| 23:11.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1210] by debhelper |
| 23:11.40 | mactimes | Vasistha The manufacturer of the slot is Ricoh. |
| 23:11.52 | mactimes | Vasistha 06:03.1 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C822 SD/SDIO/MMC/MS/MSPro Host Adapter (rev 22) |
| 23:12.26 | Vasistha | mactimes: the reader is not mountable on its own, only the card is mountable. You have the card plugged in, right? |
| 23:12.37 | mactimes | Vasistha yeah |
| 23:13.08 | mactimes | Vasistha Let me pastebin that for you. Hold on. |
| 23:13.56 | mactimes | Vasistha http://pastebin.com/dAiRdns7 There you go. |
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| 23:14.28 | Vasistha | mactimes: I am googling for "linux Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo" and I see that other people are having trouble with this memory stick. Leave it to Sony to design something that does not work. |
| 23:14.56 | Vasistha | they could just use a standard interface and file system but no, "we are sony we have to do something special that does not work for everyone" |
| 23:15.12 | syslq | Vasistha: yuh |
| 23:15.30 | syslq | Vasistha: sd cards are also way cheaper |
| 23:15.44 | jsoft_ | solid dinosaur cards? |
| 23:15.55 | Vasistha | yes that's the kind |
| 23:16.19 | syslq | jsoft_: I use sd cards since my d50 does not support shdc |
| 23:16.38 | syslq | And I do not buy new things while old work fine |
| 23:16.45 | jsoft_ | I tried helping a chick the other day who needed to transferr some music from ipod a to ipod b (actually iphones). Fuck knows how that works. |
| 23:16.57 | jsoft_ | Correction, s/Fuck/who/ |
| 23:17.13 | jsoft_ | syslq: indeed. |
| 23:17.33 | syslq | jsoft_: blah, apple :) |
| 23:17.40 | syslq | Makes ms look like open source |
| 23:17.42 | jsoft_ | syslq: I still have some ancient nokia phone which, funnily enough, is able to make phone calls, and do that 'txt' thing |
| 23:17.48 | jsoft_ | Yeah. |
| 23:18.16 | jsoft_ | Its kinda odd, because computer illiterate people seem to go ok with apple, but it takes me a while to figure it out |
| 23:18.18 | jsoft_ | Unless I can get a shell |
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| 23:18.25 | syslq | jsoft_: doh, I use nokia e5 not so acient it laks sexynes of iphone or android but, battery life is almost a week |
| 23:18.34 | jsoft_ | syslq: exactly. |
| 23:18.42 | Vasistha | jsoft_: gtkpod |
| 23:18.49 | jsoft_ | syslq: thats why I like this one, its got a flash light on it too |
| 23:18.50 | zombifyme | jhutchins: ok, about the alsa checklist, 1,2,4,5 (works, but only left channel :P),6,7 (no oss4 here) - these seem to be checked and ok, 3 - what's "arts" or "esound"? if they're processess, then they're not running atm |
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| 23:19.34 | syslq | jsoft_: yeah, that's handy |
| 23:20.13 | dontbe | I use an old nokia, but it can't run debian |
| 23:20.24 | jsoft_ | Who cares. |
| 23:20.25 | syslq | jsoft_: I do not understand why would you want to have dual core 4.x " thing in your pocket in order to make phone calls. My nokia has kickass navigation (free) and I have querty keyboard + putty on it |
| 23:20.34 | jsoft_ | A phone is supposed to do voice comms, there we go. |
| 23:20.35 | syslq | What the hell would I want to do with phone other than that |
| 23:20.43 | jsoft_ | No requirement for all this other bollix |
| 23:20.57 | jsoft_ | syslq: agreed! :) |
| 23:21.03 | Vasistha | mactimes: not looking good. looks like you've found yourself an unsupported device. I haven't found any reports of people getting "sony memory stick pro" devices to work. |
| 23:21.22 | dontbe | standard people (tm) likes touch and touching interfaces |
| 23:21.27 | syslq | Well |
| 23:21.31 | syslq | Touch screens |
| 23:21.32 | dontbe | I've see it with my human eyes |
| 23:21.33 | Vasistha | touches dontbe |
| 23:21.34 | syslq | SUCK |
| 23:21.53 | jsoft_ | :\ |
| 23:22.01 | syslq | And I'm being purely pragmatical here, with physical querty keyboard I can sms's while driving & smoking |
| 23:22.06 | syslq | Try that with touchscreen |
| 23:22.10 | mactimes | Vasistha No problem. I can connect the USB cable for the camera and transfer the images fine. But it would be nice not depending on the camera if I have the card in hands and the camera is currently out of battery. |
| 23:22.11 | jsoft_ | I dunno, I must be getting old and stubborn, but I hate touch-screen phones |
| 23:22.29 | syslq | jsoft_: it's not that, too many clicks in order to do a thing |
| 23:22.31 | dontbe | I use phone to call, and I'm used to my old nokia |
| 23:22.45 | Vasistha | mactimes: that is true, but unfortunately sony is a horrible company that is very unfriendly to linux |
| 23:23.03 | Vasistha | mactimes: even dpkg will attest to that |
| 23:23.05 | syslq | Vasistha: but they do make great rootkits for windows |
| 23:23.06 | Vasistha | !sony |
| 23:23.06 | dpkg | Sony is a very screwed up company, or someday you will drive your Sony to the Sony to pick up some more Sony. "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?" - Thomas Hesse of Sony BMG, November 2005. See also <playstation>, <vaio>. http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Sony |
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| 23:23.22 | dontbe | I've an apple, but it's 24" and it runs debian@amd64 since first day |
| 23:23.31 | syslq | dontbe: why do you have an apple then :) |
| 23:23.35 | syslq | $? |
| 23:23.36 | jsoft_ | I have an apple 27", and its running debian + windows |
| 23:23.37 | dontbe | I can touch just the keys |
| 23:23.52 | Vasistha | dontbe: it's probably easier to run debian on an apple than on many sony computers |
| 23:24.11 | syslq | I have noname comp & 24" dell screen running windows 7 |
| 23:24.15 | dontbe | syslq: since I buyed it, I stopped modding my generic desktop pc every weekend |
| 23:24.17 | jsoft_ | Got to fart about with the bios/efi/whatever/something to make it happy with non-apple os |
| 23:24.30 | dontbe | it was around 2006/7, and It still does not make noise |
| 23:24.32 | mactimes | Vasistha Well, anyways, thank you for the try. ;-) |
| 23:24.39 | syslq | dontbe: mhm |
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| 23:25.10 | Vasistha | mactimes: oh hey look at this |
| 23:25.11 | dontbe | Vasistha: a well, sony, nice hardware |
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| 23:25.16 | Vasistha | !tell mactimes about vaio |
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| 23:25.35 | jsoft_ | I remember some time ago I had a no-noise dialup gateway/firewall which was a 486 I think it was. A big tower thing, and it had no noise at all except when something needed to be written to the hdd, which was not very often |
| 23:25.36 | Vasistha | maybe r5u87x is what you need, dunno |
| 23:26.02 | syslq | I gave up on desktop liux |
| 23:26.06 | syslq | linux |
| 23:26.10 | syslq | Too many hassles |
| 23:26.12 | dontbe | 486++, I've one running, and a 386 laptop as my firewall tty |
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| 23:26.49 | mactimes | Vasistha It's ok. All my other hardware work fine. Just the SD card port doesn't, although I can see it on lspci. |
| 23:27.00 | dontbe | and a noisy modem in the garage I do not use, it's linux compatible, I should make it failover for my DSL |
| 23:27.04 | mactimes | Vasistha I'll just transfer the data with the camera cable. |
| 23:27.50 | jsoft_ | syslq: I guess that depends to what you need to do |
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| 23:28.13 | jsoft_ | I am mostly a terminal emulator + web browser + emacs guy |
| 23:28.25 | jsoft_ | and the occasional vlc, pdf viewer, etc |
| 23:28.33 | dontbe | is there any recommended "video editing" tool in the repos (I mean GUI, cut, paste, add music, titles, etc) ? |
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| 23:28.38 | syslq | jsoft_: tmux, bpython, vim here |
| 23:28.43 | syslq | dontbe: kdenlive |
| 23:28.48 | jsoft_ | bpythong? |
| 23:28.50 | dontbe | ouch |
| 23:28.51 | jsoft_ | bpython even? |
| 23:28.52 | dontbe | ok |
| 23:29.00 | syslq | dontbe: it's very good to be honest |
| 23:29.13 | syslq | jsoft_: yes, it's a wrapper over python interpreter |
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| 23:29.22 | jsoft_ | syslq: what does it do? |
| 23:29.22 | syslq | tab completition etc |
| 23:29.22 | jsoft_ | oh right |
| 23:29.30 | jsoft_ | bash-python I assume |
| 23:29.55 | syslq | jsoft_: not really, it's great, I use it all the time |
| 23:30.17 | syslq | ipython is overkill for me |
| 23:30.22 | dontbe | syslq: is it marillat or something like, don't see it in my local mirror ? |
| 23:30.34 | syslq | Nope, there is debian package |
| 23:30.38 | jsoft_ | syslq: I've been getting into erlang recently. |
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| 23:30.54 | dontbe | o it's in the mirror, but this machine has marillat also in the sources, sorry |
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| 23:31.12 | jsoft_ | syslq: I think so far my favourate things are lisp, erlang, and C. python is definately handy but ive not used it in ages |
| 23:31.36 | syslq | jsoft_: python is for kiddies like me, for throwing things together like lego bricks |
| 23:31.45 | dontbe | cpan is lego |
| 23:31.47 | syslq | jsoft_: pypi and perl's cpan are kickass for that |
| 23:31.51 | syslq | dontbe: yes |
| 23:31.58 | jsoft_ | Indeed. |
| 23:32.00 | syslq | dontbe: but pypi is almost as large now |
| 23:32.10 | dontbe | well, maybe python is too, I've never needed it |
| 23:32.22 | syslq | dontbe: if you're comfty with perl it's fine |
| 23:32.27 | syslq | you do not need python then |
| 23:32.33 | syslq | I like perl too |
| 23:32.47 | dontbe | well, maybe I'm comfty _and dangerous_ hehe |
| 23:32.56 | syslq | :) |
| 23:33.18 | dontbe | I'm interestend in posix sh lately |
| 23:33.20 | syslq | dontbe: how is perl6 going btw? |
| 23:33.38 | syslq | dontbe: mah that's too crude for me, it does not even support arrays :) |
| 23:33.47 | syslq | I just use bash, it's common enough |
| 23:33.48 | dontbe | yes, it's a pain |
| 23:34.04 | dontbe | bash is the "sh" of linux |
| 23:34.11 | syslq | Well not really |
| 23:34.13 | dontbe | much more flexible |
| 23:34.14 | syslq | dash is on debian |
| 23:34.22 | dontbe | dash is mostly sh |
| 23:34.24 | syslq | dash is like 95% posix compilant |
| 23:34.26 | syslq | yes |
| 23:34.43 | syslq | I'm considering learning some web development |
| 23:34.48 | twock | ZSH FTW |
| 23:34.52 | syslq | jquery, some css framework |
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| 23:35.02 | dontbe | i don't know really why i'm interested in sh... I just run everything over linux and I'm done to bash syntax |
| 23:35.20 | dontbe | jquery is easy to get, If you can get perl, jquery is much more easy |
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| 23:35.45 | syslq | twock: zsh seems next to useless to me, it's not everywhere by default and it has great scripting but then again if you need that you need perl or something |
| 23:35.56 | engla_ | the redo project has a small testsuite to select the most posix compliant shell, it takes zsh over dash |
| 23:36.07 | syslq | Ah |
| 23:36.08 | engla_ | it's only testing the features it is using itself though |
| 23:36.36 | syslq | dontbe: jquery is easy |
| 23:36.42 | dontbe | I've do some horrors in jquey... but I think that js is the next "flash" talking about "browser securitty", that and html5 "fonts" and late font related bugs thata allow code execution |
| 23:36.58 | syslq | dontbe: I just can not decide on backend language, server side |
| 23:37.20 | syslq | dontbe: I should probably just pick php, it's quite like perl/c |
| 23:37.30 | syslq | Easy to learn |
| 23:37.35 | syslq | and everywhere |
| 23:37.55 | syslq | I was playing around with python/django but that's obscure |
| 23:38.03 | zombifyme | syslq: css framework? you mean things like semi-css code "compiled" by some server-side script into real css? |
| 23:38.05 | syslq | And too object oriented |
| 23:38.16 | syslq | zombifyme: I like twitter bootstrap |
| 23:38.24 | dontbe | I've do some php at $work (drupal and wordpress) ... and I'm ashamed |
| 23:38.28 | syslq | zombifyme: there are others |
| 23:38.31 | syslq | dontbe: why? |
| 23:38.47 | dontbe | maybe I like other kind of software |
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| 23:39.08 | syslq | dontbe: yes but many bitch about php but everyone is using it |
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| 23:39.47 | dontbe | syslq: for me, try to avoid it is a nice option is available, I was sysadmin |
| 23:39.54 | dontbe | s/is/if/ |
| 23:40.04 | syslq | Well |
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| 23:40.10 | dontbe | I've used too many php 0days |
| 23:40.12 | syslq | dontbe: what is nice option :) |
| 23:40.23 | dontbe | for what project ? |
| 23:40.29 | dontbe | or for what needs |
| 23:40.36 | syslq | dontbe: for general web |
| 23:40.47 | syslq | dontbe: I could use c cgi's :)))) |
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| 23:41.01 | dontbe | which web ? |
| 23:41.14 | dontbe | a router admin interface? or a social network of massive peaks ? |
| 23:41.35 | syslq | social network of massive peaks choose php :), look at fb |
| 23:41.40 | dontbe | until 50 visits/second anything is fine |
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| 23:42.12 | dxtr | syslq: Isn't Twitter using Python? |
| 23:42.15 | dontbe | well, facebook does not use just php |
| 23:42.26 | syslq | dxtr: probably, youtube does for sure |
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| 23:42.34 | dxtr | syslq: Well then :P |
| 23:42.38 | syslq | ;) |
| 23:42.52 | kresp0 | why after installing nvidia-glx the console fonts look so bad? |
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| 23:43.03 | dontbe | most important "thing" if you want to do "web" nowdays I think is frontend code |
| 23:43.05 | kresp0 | and how may i fix that? |
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| 23:43.12 | zombifyme | yeah, fb compiles its php to c++,and then c++ to binary ;) |
| 23:43.21 | dontbe | then there is the number of transactions/second that your backend needs |
| 23:43.27 | syslq | dontbe: would you mind if I aksed you for opinion on pv |
| 23:43.59 | dontbe | syslq: I do not mean, but I'm not an expert, really, I'm more of the "sys" than the "web" land |
| 23:44.20 | dontbe | also i'm using webchat unauth, so maybe you can't xD |
| 23:44.32 | dontbe | o yes, you can |
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