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| 15:10.04 | *** topic/#debian is squeeze (6.0.5) released; /msg dpkg squeeze | lenny no longer on mirrors; EOL 2012-02-06; /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze | wheezy frozen; /msg dpkg freeze | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg pastebin | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | wheezy/sid: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) | FAQ: http://deb.li/IRCFAQ | channel logs: http://deb.li/yQXC |
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| 15:15.56 | DammitJim | what should I look at if I am trying to troubleshoot waking up from a suspend? |
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| 15:16.16 | DammitJim | the screen is all black and I can't even Ctrl + ALt + F1 |
| 15:16.28 | sney | is it suspend to ram or suspend to disk |
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| 15:18.33 | DammitJim | ram |
| 15:18.48 | DammitJim | I tested my RAM and it's good |
| 15:18.52 | DammitJim | with memtest |
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| 15:19.23 | Chetic | I found the firmware binary for the wifi dongle D-Link DWA-140 (Rev.B2) in Squeeze to be bad (package firmware-ralink), and figured a solution. How do I, uh, share my discovery? |
| 15:19.40 | Chetic | I.e. prevent others from having to go through the same trouble |
| 15:19.52 | abrotman | !tell Chetic about reportbug |
| 15:20.14 | Chetic | Thanks |
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| 15:24.33 | DammitJim | I don't see anything in /var/log/messages |
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| 15:26.45 | DammitJim | if it is an nvidia problem, where do I look? |
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| 15:27.43 | sney | DammitJim: with the proprietary nvidia driver or nouveau? either way --> bugs.debian.org |
| 15:28.14 | DammitJim | hhmmmm... I'm using the one from the wheezy depo |
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| 15:29.39 | johndescs | so, is it normal that under testing gnome keyboard default layout be overriden by 'keyboard-configuration' ? |
| 15:29.59 | johndescs | may I fill a bug or something ? no idea against which package though |
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| 15:30.07 | pasky | Hi! I have some trouble with dkms. I use a custom kernel build (and debian squeeze) and even though I have linux-headers-3.2.11-kamdesktop package (appropriate for the current kernel) installed, trying to install nvidia-kernel-dkms gets me just "Module build for the currently running kernel was skipped since the kernel source for this kernel does not seem to be installed." - is there a way to make dkms work with a custom kernel? |
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| 15:31.21 | sney | pasky: you might have more flexibility just running the dkms command. I don't know the syntax, but I would imagine it has an option to specify where the headers are located |
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| 15:31.35 | stew | pasky: does /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build exist? is it a symlink to a valid target? |
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| 15:32.18 | pasky | sney: ideally, i'd like dkms to trigger automatically with installation of new kernel headers in the future, which is something that also doesn't happen now (i'd imagine for the same reason) |
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| 15:32.37 | pasky | stew: indeed, it doesn't! curious |
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| 15:33.54 | pasky | so that seems the kernel package contains wrong symlinks... in fact, it's strange that the kernel package rather than the headers package would contain the symlinks |
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| 15:44.39 | oops | Is Debian as stable as FreeBSD or more stable? |
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| 15:45.27 | dimir | Great question. |
| 15:45.39 | dimir | fetches popcorn |
| 15:45.45 | Calinou | freebsd isn't stable at all |
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| 15:45.50 | Calinou | apt-gets popcorn too |
| 15:46.01 | Calinou | oops, HIGHFIVE for unaffiliated cloak |
| 15:46.08 | Calinou | the troll cloak :D |
| 15:46.11 | dimir | :-D |
| 15:46.45 | oops | Calinou, why? I read a BSD fan blog who said that FreeBSD is very stable and their -RELEASE branch is similar to Debian's stable branch. |
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| 15:46.57 | sney | They are both suitable for applications that require a lot of stability like web servers, database servers, and the like. |
| 15:46.58 | Calinou | BSD sucks. period |
| 15:47.03 | oops | and their -STABLE branch is similar to Debian's testing branch. |
| 15:47.08 | Calinou | "hey linux sucks lets make our own!" |
| 15:47.12 | sney | Calinou: if you want to troll, there are much better venues to do that in |
| 15:47.15 | oops | sney, thanks. |
| 15:48.53 | oops | one good thing I read about BSD was that all package installation happens in this manner: source code downloaded, compiled and installed. |
| 15:49.06 | oops | this prevents dependency errors due to mismatching versions. |
| 15:49.13 | oops | can I do that in Debian? |
| 15:49.15 | bartus | hello, got problem with multiarch and aptitude. This is what i do: dpkg --add-architecture i386 && aptitude update. Now when invoking aptitude safe-upgrade i got error saying that there is no solution to resolver update dependencies. When roll back changes (dpkg -remove-architecture&&aptitude update) safe-upgrade works fine. |
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| 15:49.28 | oops | where aptitude install, downloads the source, makes and installs? |
| 15:49.46 | sney | oops: debian has package management designed to prevent dependency issues and it works very well on stable |
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| 15:49.53 | _doomster_ | oops: yes you can get teh source and install stuff, but if you look for something like that on Linux I think gentoo is your friend ;) |
| 15:50.05 | jhutchins_wk | oops: No, that doesn't prevent dependency errors, they are just as bad in sourcecode as they are in binary package systems. |
| 15:50.16 | sney | oops: debian is a binary distribution so there is very little compiling, it's actually considered a security risk to have a toolchain on a production server |
| 15:50.50 | jelly | sney: [citation needed] |
| 15:50.51 | oops | sney, could you please give some hints about a kind of attack that development toolchain on production server can cause? |
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| 15:51.40 | sney | it's just the concept that someone gaining access to your server could write some piece of code and compile and run it |
| 15:51.45 | jelly | the obvious "making things easier for the intruder, let them compile exploits locally" comes to mind |
| 15:51.53 | sney | yes, this |
| 15:52.04 | jelly | but they can compile it elsewhere and upload the same way they got in |
| 15:52.25 | oops | yes |
| 15:52.36 | _doomster_ | maybe. |
| 15:52.38 | sney | I still wouldn't do it :P |
| 15:52.52 | jelly | then again, each single security feature doesn't do much on its own |
| 15:52.59 | sney | if I'm compiling something for production I'll compile it elsewhere and bring over a .deb |
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| 15:53.17 | jelly | sney: not a .deb, an executable (or a script) |
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| 15:53.34 | oops | I am running a hobby website on Debian. Where can I learn more about making my installation secure? |
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| 15:53.57 | sney | !securing debian |
| 15:53.58 | dpkg | The Securing Debian Manual describes the security of the Debian GNU/Linux operating system and within the Debian project. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ Packaged for Debian as harden-doc. See also <manuals>. |
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| 15:56.05 | oops | Debian is installed on my laptop. I plan to add FreeBSD on a separate partition. They don't have grub. They seem to have LILO, BootEasy, OS/2 Boot Manager and OS-BS. now if I install that, which boot manager should I install so that I can boot Debian as well? |
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| 15:56.38 | ompaul | oops: it should look after it all - that is a #freebsd question I would think |
| 15:56.55 | oops | ompaul, ok. |
| 15:57.01 | cedr | debian has lilo, ne? |
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| 15:57.13 | ompaul | cedr: you need grub these days |
| 15:57.17 | cedr | ah |
| 15:57.19 | ompaul | oops: it should look after it |
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| 15:57.23 | ompaul | !tias |
| 15:57.23 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 15:57.25 | tremon | oops: I think freebsd is multiboot-compatible, which means grub might be able to boot it |
| 15:57.36 | sney | I'm pretty sure grub can boot both, and debian's grub scripts can detect other installed OSes |
| 15:57.43 | oops | ok |
| 15:58.04 | oops | so if freebsd overwrites the MBR, what recovery action can I take to give back control to Debian's grub? |
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| 15:58.16 | oops | boot with the Debian CD and then rewrite MBR with grub? |
| 15:58.29 | tremon | freebsd isn't windows... I'm pretty sure you can tell freebsd to leave the mbr alone |
| 15:58.41 | oops | ok, great. |
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| 15:58.45 | jelly | cedr: there's a number of boot loaders available, lilo among them |
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| 15:59.20 | oops | i am also curious how grub identifies if there are operating systems on other partitions? Does it actually go and read the files and checks C:\Windows, so it must be Windows, etc.? |
| 15:59.27 | oops | or is it more sophisticated than that? |
| 15:59.42 | nvz | for some reason I brought this clean debian install up for the first time since i installed it, and come to find out the reason why I can't even open a terminal or anything is because the filesystem is write protected.. any advice on this? |
| 15:59.46 | sney | the program that actually does it is called os-prober |
| 15:59.49 | jelly | oops: yes, the os-prober tool detects filesystem types and specific files on them |
| 16:00.18 | oops | I can't find os-prober command on my Debian. |
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| 16:00.35 | jelly | ,file bin/os-prober |
| 16:00.35 | sney | nvz: filesystem mounted read-only? it could be filesystem errors or a disk problem |
| 16:00.42 | judd | Search for bin/os-prober in squeeze/i386: os-prober: usr/bin/os-prober |
| 16:00.58 | kupo | could someone help me with getting cuda working in debian? |
| 16:01.01 | kupo | testing that is |
| 16:01.02 | oops | p os-prober <-- so I have to install it. If it isn't installed, I wonder how grub did its work the first time I installed Debian. |
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| 16:01.16 | nvz | sney: yeah I was just going through dmesg waiting on ideas.. seems there was some IO errors, gonna try fsck |
| 16:01.38 | nvz | I didnt think that was likely since I've never even booted this before |
| 16:01.55 | sney | everything works fine right up until the moment it doesn't anymore |
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| 16:03.14 | tremon | oops: the initial grub.conf is generated by the installer, and you don't need os-prober to detect the debian you're running :) |
| 16:03.22 | oops | ok |
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| 16:03.32 | nvz | hmm.. well fsck ended pretty quick clearing some orphaned inodes but it still wont remount says write protected |
| 16:03.58 | sney | you mean with 'mount / -o remount,rw' ? |
| 16:04.09 | nvz | I'm not familiar witht his write protected thing.. last experience I had with write protected was back in the day with floppy disks |
| 16:04.12 | tremon | nvz: is it an usb-stick with hardware write-toggle? |
| 16:04.20 | nvz | no its a SATA HDD |
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| 16:04.40 | tremon | maybe firmware issue? seems far-fetched... |
| 16:04.56 | nvz | it also has windows on it, and I know the disk is not the problem |
| 16:05.02 | nvz | just booted windows prior to this |
| 16:05.06 | dondelelcaro | nvz: run smartctl on it to see what it outputs, and what dmesg says |
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| 16:05.33 | nvz | dondelelcaro: thats not doable, as I dont have it and can't install anything with it in this state |
| 16:05.57 | dondelelcaro | nvz: you can boot off of a live cd with it, or you can install it to a usb key or something else |
| 16:05.58 | nvz | dondelelcaro: dmesg indicated IO errors and drive not ready towards the end |
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| 16:06.50 | dondelelcaro | nvz: in most cases, if the kernel starts getting lots of errors from the drive, it'll remount read only; that windows works is possibly only because windows ignores the errors |
| 16:06.59 | dondelelcaro | (but I don't use windows, so...) |
| 16:07.19 | stew | or the errors don't occur in sectors windows is using... |
| 16:07.29 | nvz | idk I have 4 drives here and as of yet have not been able to get debian running more than a few days on this system |
| 16:07.59 | tremon | ... or the drive/controller has firmware issues which the manufacturer has worked around in driver code... |
| 16:08.22 | tremon | stresses /windows/ driver code |
| 16:08.33 | nvz | Its not a huge deal as I do have XP that works on here, and ubuntu on another drive, that both work, and I have yet another drive I havent even used yet.. and this is fresh install so.. can just start over I guess |
| 16:09.04 | nvz | my aim was to boot this and run down a GPU issue, then to my surprise its hosed already and I havent even booted it yet.. heh |
| 16:09.46 | sney | if you're troubleshooting hardware, have you opened the case lately? a loose sata cable can definitely cause i/o errors |
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| 16:11.01 | nvz | sney: its a laptop and yes I just opened it to put this drive in.. heh |
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| 16:12.01 | nvz | booted windows first then decided I didnt want to play with windows, wanted to boot debian and see about this gpu issue I've been having in linux. I seen it needed updates, tried to install them it failed, tried to open a terminal to see why, that failed, came to console and realized its write protected |
| 16:12.26 | sney | yeah, definitely re-seat the drive connection then |
| 16:12.55 | sney | (that means take it out and put it back in - not wiggling) |
| 16:12.59 | nvz | I dont have a better idea so a reboot was likely anyhow.. so I suppose I can remove and reinsert the drive |
| 16:13.19 | nvz | you cannot wiggle it, it has a bracket that only allows it to be inserted straight on |
| 16:13.21 | stew | you can try memtest86 too |
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| 16:15.59 | nvz | these things never wouldve been an issue in the past.. but now that walking and stuff is difficult, I tend to just want things to work so I dont have to keep running around, finding thumbdrives and crap like that. heh |
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| 16:16.38 | nvz | shuts down to verify connection of HDD and ram |
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| 16:23.23 | birdinatux | knetworkmanager is saying i have the wrong wireless password for wpa but I know it is correct. any suggestions? |
| 16:23.27 | nvz | well I reseated the ram and hdd and it seems to at least be in RW now cause it let me start screen and write the dpkg lock file |
| 16:23.34 | n-iCe | hi |
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| 16:23.51 | nvz | but it seems after accessing the dpkg database it went into RO again |
| 16:24.20 | bartus | Have problem with multiarch packages. When trying to install with apt-get i got bunch of errors from dpkg ( trying to overwrite shared '/usr/share/doc/***/changelog.Debian.gz', which is different from other instances of package lib***:i386 |
| 16:24.44 | break19 | birdinatux: log out, and back into kde. I tended to have problems with older versions of knetworkmanager. Let me guess you disabled the "wallet" system, right? Or havent set it up yet? If that's the case, you just hit that bug.. logging out and back in should fix it. :) |
| 16:25.17 | birdinatux | break19 actually I am using the wallet. I will try to logout/in and see. |
| 16:25.55 | jogetwoo | :) |
| 16:26.27 | nvz | I guess the back end of this drive must be damaged |
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| 16:27.03 | nvz | can't install anything or open a web browser to even paste anything, so not gonna solve anything booted from it |
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| 16:28.39 | RedSocrates | acpi -t |
| 16:28.43 | RedSocrates | Heh... Whoops. |
| 16:29.44 | birdinatux | still keeps just popping up the password box as if it were incorrect. |
| 16:29.59 | birdinatux | Works just fine with router at home running wpa2 |
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| 16:33.15 | rozie | birdinatux: double check - maybe you mix password with hex key OSLT |
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| 16:33.29 | rozie | and check logs (dmesg, syslog) |
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| 16:34.48 | birdinatux | rozie the password is the number 1 written 10 times. I type the password at least 30 times a day. (it is in a computer repair shop) I am sure it is correct :) First time trying it with debian/linux |
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| 16:36.30 | birdinatux | rozie i did have msg in the dmesg i will paste bin for you |
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| 16:37.54 | birdinatux | http://pastebin.com/SxEbuQVd |
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| 16:39.40 | nvz | birdinatux: I get really paranoid when I swear I've typed my password right and it says I didn't |
| 16:40.05 | nvz | though I tend to type faster than I can think so.. heh |
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| 16:40.28 | birdinatux | nvz haha I have had the same problem before so I typed really slow with the hung and pick method lmao |
| 16:40.36 | birdinatux | *hunt |
| 16:40.45 | nvz | I can't do that because I dont know my passwords |
| 16:40.53 | yazdmich | why does OSX say that the debian netinstall iso has no mountable filesystem when i try to extract it? |
| 16:41.13 | dondelelcaro | yazdmich: why are you trying to extract the iso? |
| 16:41.24 | yazdmich | to put it on a USB |
| 16:41.41 | nvz | figured that out several years ago when I thought I woke up with amnesia cause I tried 30 or so times and couldnt get into my computer then realized I had a cola can in the middle of the desk and it caused me to move my hands farther apart, as soon as I moved it I got in on the first try |
| 16:41.45 | dondelelcaro | yazdmich: you don't need to extract it. Write it to the USB |
| 16:41.49 | yazdmich | ? |
| 16:41.53 | nvz | apparently I use muscle memory to remember my passwords |
| 16:42.05 | dondelelcaro | yazdmich: dd if=foo.iso of=/path/to/usb or whatever. |
| 16:42.06 | yazdmich | i thought you had to extract it to make it bootable? |
| 16:42.10 | birdinatux | nvz that is good security practice. If you don't know them, then torture is not a penetration method for you haha |
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| 16:42.22 | dondelelcaro | yazdmich: no. You might want to read the install guide which explains this |
| 16:42.27 | nvz | birdinatux: yeah can't use the rubber hose attack if you dont know what it is.. |
| 16:42.28 | yazdmich | ah |
| 16:43.01 | dondelelcaro | birdinatux: check the output of wpa_cli while it's trying to reassociate |
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| 16:43.33 | dondelelcaro | it's possible too that kde networks isn't specifying a psk or whatever the right type of password is |
| 16:44.05 | birdinatux | dondelelcaro: I am not sure how to do that. A bit of a n00b here. |
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| 16:44.48 | dondelelcaro | birdinatux: just run sudo wpa_cli in a console |
| 16:45.04 | birdinatux | lmao smack my head |
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| 16:45.37 | birdinatux | dondelelcaro: could not connect to wpa_supplicant |
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| 16:46.48 | dondelelcaro | birdinatux: hrm. ok; I don't use kdenetwork or whatever kde's network manager is, so I'm not sure why it's not trying to reassociate. You might try reselecting the right network and see if it'll work |
| 16:47.02 | dondelelcaro | birdinatux: if wpa_cli is running while that's happening, it should produce some output |
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| 16:48.06 | nvz | I suppose while I'm sitting here sweating my butt off I might as well run badblocks on this disk to confirm its damaged |
| 16:48.35 | dondelelcaro | nvz: or just run smartctl on it |
| 16:48.49 | dondelelcaro | no need to do any actual work; modern drives know when they're stuffed |
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| 16:48.52 | nvz | dondelelcaro: I'd have to boot from something else for that, I can't use anything I dont already have |
| 16:49.06 | dondelelcaro | nvz: so make yourself a tmpfs and install it there |
| 16:49.09 | nvz | apparently badblocks is a standard tool |
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| 16:49.25 | dondelelcaro | yeah, but it will take forever, and probably still not tell you what you need to know |
| 16:49.37 | dondelelcaro | since it can only write to blocks that aren't in use |
| 16:49.57 | birdinatux | dondelelcaro: same problem but no output in the terminal window that has wpa_cli running. Since it connects at home with wpa2 this router is running plain wpa I will switch the router to use wpa2 and see what happens |
| 16:50.07 | nvz | well I dont know that smartctl will tell me much more than what dmesg told me |
| 16:51.50 | nvz | I just dont like computers much anymore :-P this one has been nothing but trouble since I got it.. I should just pawn it off on someone else |
| 16:51.51 | dondelelcaro | nvz: it'll tell you how many blocks have been reallocated, how many it still has to reallocate, etc. |
| 16:52.29 | birdinatux | nvc I never turn down a free box :) |
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| 16:53.31 | nvz | dondelelcaro: well you seem to know far more about that stuff, if a drive is having these read errors, is there a means of marking the bad parts and using it or is it just basically toast? cause this particular drive I just installed XP and Squeeze on a few weeks ago and doesnt have any of my data on it yet. they're basically clean installs |
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| 16:54.11 | dondelelcaro | nvz: modern drives notice bad sectors and reallocate them automatically |
| 16:54.22 | dondelelcaro | nvz: so if it's having read errors, it's probably shot |
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| 16:55.24 | nvz | dondelelcaro: thats what I was thinking, if it has errors its no good. I guess I'll just have to start working with another drive |
| 16:56.18 | nvz | its rather suspect to me though that I've had this computer almost a year now and not been able to get my OS of choice to run on it.. seems to eat HDDs |
| 16:56.40 | nvz | I put my ubuntu drive from my netbook in here all the time, and it doesnt have any issue at all other than being ubuntu.. nuff said there.. heh |
| 16:56.56 | dondelelcaro | nvz: it could also be that the power supply in that machine is bad, or something else is bad |
| 16:56.58 | nvz | and XP seems to work too.. as well as XP works.. |
| 16:57.13 | dondelelcaro | nvz: undervolting of drives and/or equipment causes all kinds of odd failures |
| 16:57.14 | nvz | dondelelcaro: it killed the first HDD 4 days after unboxing it.. its a brand new laptop |
| 16:58.11 | nvz | that also doesnt explain why the 160gb WD Blue out of my netbook works fine with ubuntu on it.. and these other drives are all also WD Blue notebook sata drives, larger ones.. but same brand/series |
| 16:58.36 | atrigent | does anyone know if the glibc-doc package is still relevant? it seems to mostly contain man pages for the old LinuxThreads threading... |
| 16:59.11 | atrigent | it's not clear whether they still apply to NPTL |
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| 16:59.17 | kisisten | hi, does the wheezy installer has a btrfs option during install ? |
| 16:59.32 | dondelelcaro | atrigent: those are the free glibc documents; that package is split into two parts |
| 16:59.48 | dondelelcaro | kisisten: I believe you can create a btrfs partition during install, but I haven't personally tried. |
| 17:00.02 | atrigent | dondelelcaro: right I saw that, but I'm wondering about the relevance of the pthread man pages in that package |
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| 17:00.40 | kisisten | dondelelcaro: got you, so btrfs is not a mature solution as of yet. |
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| 17:03.23 | kisisten | i was thinking of installing wheezy on btrfs |
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| 17:06.05 | abrotman | kisisten: does your job depend on it ? |
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| 17:07.17 | tolkor | heya. i have a 6.0.3 system that is my first foray into the debian realm. 6.0.5 is now out. what is the preferred mechanism to go from .3 to .5? i've done a few apt-get update's and fullupgrades but the sources.list still says 6.0.3. |
| 17:07.56 | abrotman | the sources do ? |
| 17:08.02 | tolkor | <nod> |
| 17:08.05 | abrotman | tolkor: use paste.debian.net to show us |
| 17:08.07 | kisisten | abrotman: nope, but I think btrfs is an awsome filesystem for modern os support, given the terabytes of space |
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| 17:08.16 | abrotman | kisisten: you could also try it in a VM |
| 17:08.21 | tolkor | dokey dokey |
| 17:08.50 | stew | tolkor: and what does "cat /etc/debian_version" return? |
| 17:08.58 | kisisten | abrotman: roger, that makes sense. |
| 17:09.11 | birdinatux | nvc sounds like that notebook needs the rubber hose treatment. Maybe a motherboard/sata controller problem? less trouble with smaller drives? |
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| 17:11.09 | tolkor | http://paste.debian.net/179366/ |
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| 17:11.54 | tolkor | stew: 6.0.5 |
| 17:11.56 | tolkor | hmmm |
| 17:12.07 | tolkor | i might be mis-interpreting sources.list |
| 17:12.15 | abrotman | tolkor: you can comment out the cdrom line |
| 17:12.22 | abrotman | the http sources will supercede that |
| 17:12.24 | tolkor | specifically this line: deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.3 _Squeeze_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20111014-12:07]/ squeeze main |
| 17:12.35 | tolkor | abrotman: tnx |
| 17:13.01 | tolkor | so that line is not what version i'm on but simple a possible source for things |
| 17:13.13 | abrotman | in this case, it's the version of the CD you installed from |
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| 17:14.18 | cedr | is it possible to use `lame` to put all audio on the right channel? I see -mm does the left one, but is there a way to specify right instead? |
| 17:14.22 | tolkor | cbt all |
| 17:14.39 | abrotman | tolkor: right .. and the http versions are a newer version, so the CD is likely unused |
| 17:14.58 | tolkor | yup; haven't had it in since install |
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| 17:15.22 | abrotman | yeah .. generally how it works :) |
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| 17:31.42 | boudiccas | !ud oggcamp |
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| 17:33.24 | n-iCe | Anyone using the alfa AWUS036H can't use the vendor drive r8187l |
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| 17:35.48 | somiaj | n-iCe: do you have the chipset that is used? (use lspci) |
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| 17:36.12 | sney | probably just needs firmware. vendor drivers are almost always a bad idea |
| 17:36.34 | somiaj | yea most of the realtek drivers are in debian, though you may need a newer kernel and firmware from backports. |
| 17:36.35 | n-iCe | somiaj: rtl8187 is the one I have |
| 17:36.50 | sney | !rtl8187 |
| 17:36.50 | dpkg | Realtek 802.11b/g PCI and USB wireless LAN chipsets (RTL8180L, RTL8185L, RTL8187L, RTL8187B, RTL8187SE) are supported by the rtl8180, rtl8187 and rtl8187se/r8187se drivers in the Linux kernel. All drivers do not require firmware from userspace. http://wiki.debian.org/rtl818x . For support of Realtek 802.11n devices, ask me about <rtl819x>. |
| 17:36.51 | n-iCe | sney: that's what people told me, but I remember installing it once and worked fine |
| 17:37.28 | sney | vendor drivers sometimes "work fine" but they ignore package management and might introduce bugs that wouldn't occur with what was tested. |
| 17:37.48 | somiaj | n-iCe: may reason to use debian over vendor drivers is integration with the debian system. (though depending on the age of the driver vendor may be the only choice). Though I would think backports are needed. |
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| 17:38.40 | n-iCe | I always need to set rate to my card, to 5.5M auto to make it work, other wise I get ping time outs, I remember with vendor driver did not happen that |
| 17:39.13 | sney | did you file a bug about that behaviour? |
| 17:39.56 | Giric | New issue for the day: I can write to a thumb/jump/flash drive, but even using sudo I can't change file permissions within the drive. The error says "You do not have the permissions necessary to change the group of "stick"." Any help? |
| 17:40.20 | nkuttler | Giric: which filesystem? |
| 17:40.22 | Giric | Oh, that's when trying to change the group /media/stick belongs to so I can access it without sudo. |
| 17:40.27 | Giric | FAT |
| 17:40.30 | somiaj | Giric: what is the file system on the drive? vfat does not have file systems |
| 17:40.37 | somiaj | Giric: grr, file permisions |
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| 17:41.13 | nkuttler | Giric: you should only have to change the mount point permissions iirc |
| 17:41.16 | Giric | Hm... Is that the only way I can move it between my Debian box and my Windows 7 box? (Using FAT). |
| 17:41.16 | somiaj | Giric: yea the file system doesn't allow the changing of them. You can set all files/directories to paticular permisions with umask, fmask, dmask and owner/group with uid=,gid= options passed when you mount the file system. |
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| 17:41.41 | somiaj | Giric: with ntfs-3g you can read/write to ntfs file systems (Though you'll have the same permision issues on linux) |
| 17:41.42 | nkuttler | somiaj: wasn't that only for ntfs? |
| 17:42.03 | somiaj | Giric: and windows you can install ext2/3/4 drivers and read ext file systems |
| 17:42.21 | somiaj | nkuttler: no, the mount options also work for vfat. I use the uid a lot so I don't have to be root to access my vfat thumb drive |
| 17:42.29 | sney | yeah, I use the ext2 ifs - it doesn't support journaling but it hasn't broken anything yet |
| 17:42.29 | somiaj | though I am fine with the default umask |
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| 17:42.45 | nkuttler | just uses a samba share.. |
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| 17:43.11 | Giric | Hm... Maybe I'll just e-mail the files to myself. That might be easier... Not that I'm uninterested in learning all this, I'm just at work and use the Windows 7 box as a primary computer at home. |
| 17:44.15 | somiaj | Giric: why do you want to change file permisions, if you just want to copy files back and forth file permisions shouldn't be an issue |
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| 17:45.24 | somiaj | Giric: if you want the whole drive file system to be owned/write/readable by your main user, use the uid option |
| 17:45.37 | somiaj | mount /dev/sdb1 /usb -o uid=somiaj |
| 17:45.51 | somiaj | ^^ that is what I use to mount my vfat file systems from thumb drives, cameras, portable mp3 devices, etc |
| 17:46.14 | Giric | Let me try that. |
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| 17:47.56 | fasta | Hi, is there any media player which wasn't written by a 15 year old? |
| 17:47.59 | Giric | Awesome. Thanks, somiaj, nkuttler. |
| 17:48.12 | fasta | To be more precise: a music player. |
| 17:48.20 | sney | fasta: clarify |
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| 17:48.32 | Giric | Back to work. |
| 17:48.41 | sney | but, in my experience - rhythmbox if you want a media library, vlc if you don't |
| 17:48.42 | somiaj | fasta: I use mplayer, but what kinda of music do you play, ogg123 and mpg321 are both simple command line |
| 17:48.47 | fasta | sney: I have used basically all players and none of them work decently. |
| 17:49.02 | fasta | somiaj: I also would like a visual playlist editor. |
| 17:49.13 | fasta | somiaj: +flac support. |
| 17:49.36 | somiaj | fasta: yea I don't like gui players, so mplayer + filesystem works fine for me and plays almost anything |
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| 17:49.52 | frostschutz | fasta: mpd + mpc/ncmpc/gmpc for me |
| 17:50.07 | somiaj | the old xmms was a simple playlist editor and i used that for a while. Haven't looked into any new xmms2 gui systems though |
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| 17:50.29 | BitPuffin | Can I install fglrx-driver 12.4 from the sid repo? And how do I do that with aptitude |
| 17:50.33 | fasta | I think there are some xmms clones which sort of look OK, but in the end also crash. |
| 17:50.43 | sney | BitPuffin: on squeeze? no. |
| 17:50.47 | fasta | Really stability is a major issue surprisingly. |
| 17:50.49 | sney | ,v fglrx-driver |
| 17:50.50 | judd | Package: fglrx-driver on i386 -- lenny/non-free: 1:8-12-4; lenny-backports/non-free: 1:10-4-1~bpo50+1; squeeze/non-free: 1:10-9-3; sid/non-free: 1:12-6-2 |
| 17:51.05 | BitPuffin | sney, I said sid |
| 17:51.15 | somiaj | BitPuffin: what version of debian are you running? |
| 17:51.16 | fasta | I am running one now which meets all my requirements, but when I look at the code it's not even supposed to work. |
| 17:51.27 | BitPuffin | somiaj, wheezy |
| 17:51.29 | fasta | It just happens to work on this architecture out of pure luck. |
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| 17:51.47 | somiaj | BitPuffin: since wheezy has frozen, you don't really want to install sid stuff (as you could mess things up) |
| 17:51.48 | fasta | It would likely be an excellent exploit delivery platform. |
| 17:51.56 | somiaj | BitPuffin: you will have ot make your own backport (/msg dpkg ssbp) |
| 17:52.12 | BitPuffin | somiaj, How would I get fglrx otherwise? |
| 17:52.18 | boudiccas | fasta: minrok, a slimmed down version of amarok that doesnt need kde |
| 17:52.18 | somiaj | BitPuffin: if wheezy wasn't frozen I'd say go for it, but since it is now frozen want to make sure you don't mix things. |
| 17:52.37 | fasta | boudiccas: ah, cool, you managed to find one which I hadn't seen yet :) |
| 17:52.47 | sney | BitPuffin: ah... yes, you can install it, but it won't work properly. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=675940 |
| 17:52.56 | BitPuffin | somiaj, Well I've set up apt to have all the repos except wheezy is pinned as top priority |
| 17:53.05 | somiaj | BitPuffin: oh I see, fglrx isn't even in wheezy right now...well it maybe undergoing some testing for the freeze. I'm not sure you could see if #debian-next on irc.oftc.net has better choices |
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| 17:53.48 | fasta | boudiccas: is that still in development? |
| 17:53.52 | sney | it's broken. or X is broken. or they break each other |
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| 17:54.55 | BitPuffin | somiaj, What should I ask for there? |
| 17:55.12 | fasta | boudiccas: anything which hasn't had a release in 6 months is likely broken for some reason. |
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| 17:55.39 | boudiccas | fasta: sorry, it is a kde app, and i'm not sure about still in development, still looking |
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| 17:55.51 | fasta | boudiccas: I don't mind about it being kde. |
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| 17:56.07 | fasta | boudiccas: I mix gnome/gtk apps. Unlike the masses, I don't care about that. |
| 17:56.15 | fasta | boudiccas: er kde |
| 17:56.18 | xxiao | what's the difference between a graphic tty (e.g ctrl-alt-F7) and fbcon? |
| 17:56.27 | Zappallero | hi, any good link to backtrace manuals/doc to help me instruct myself to decipher backtraces in the logs? |
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| 17:57.17 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: fbcon allows multiple windows in various styles including tiled and (afik) doesn't rely on X. |
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| 17:57.54 | xxiao | jhutchins_wk: is fbcon not a text mode console? |
| 17:58.16 | xxiao | it's like a text mode console on top of framebuffer |
| 17:58.27 | xxiao | not sure how it shows tux logo though, which is graphic? |
| 17:58.35 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: I'm so used to screen I haven't checked it out. |
| 17:58.43 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: fb has the ability to do graphics. |
| 17:59.08 | xxiao | jhutchins_wk: agree, which is why i'm confused by fbcon and tty7 |
| 17:59.11 | jhutchins_wk | Old, old, old terminals (physical ones) had the fonts in the firmware. |
| 17:59.45 | xxiao | assuming both are framebuffer underneath |
| 17:59.56 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: There are no particularly unique features of tty7, it's just conventionally the "address" assigned to X. |
| 18:00.19 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: Unless you're talking about some obscure terminal enhancement. |
| 18:00.20 | xxiao | is it different from tty1-6 at all? |
| 18:00.21 | boudiccas | fasta: well the homepage is at http://www.minirok-stramproy.nl/ and i cant translate the update page in google chrome because it uses flash [i think] and i deplore flash and avoid it, so i'm not sure if its still being updated |
| 18:00.28 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: Not a bit. |
| 18:00.29 | boudiccas | ,v minirok |
| 18:00.29 | xxiao | for example i could not start graphic on tty1 |
| 18:00.30 | judd | Package: minirok on i386 -- lenny: 0.9.2-1; sid: 2.1-1; squeeze: 2.1-1; wheezy: 2.1-1 |
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| 18:00.37 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: You can run X on any of them. |
| 18:00.50 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: Sure you could. |
| 18:00.51 | xxiao | how to do that? |
| 18:00.58 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: xorg docs. |
| 18:00.59 | fasta | boudiccas: that's a website for a rock concert. |
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| 18:01.16 | fasta | boudiccas: completely unrelated to the software. |
| 18:01.33 | boudiccas | fasta: ah right, fair enough. in which case i dont think that it is still under development |
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| 18:02.11 | fasta | boudiccas: so, basically this means I don't think there is any music player which isn't a security threat and has features. |
| 18:02.17 | xxiao | jhutchins_wk: if i don't run getty on tty1, i won't have an interactive console, only the cursor |
| 18:02.22 | fasta | boudiccas: Winamp is also a pile of misery. |
| 18:02.28 | fasta | boudiccas: (via wine) |
| 18:02.35 | xxiao | then i have an app to start graphic on that tty1 |
| 18:02.37 | fasta | boudiccas: that's fairly disappointing. |
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| 18:02.45 | xxiao | anyway time to read xorg docs, thanks1 |
| 18:02.48 | xxiao | thanks! |
| 18:02.51 | jhutchins_wk | It's pretty funny how Amarok managed to inspire so many projects by how bad it became. |
| 18:02.58 | simonlnu | it only needs a free tty, that's all. |
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| 18:03.02 | kevlarman | xxiao: it's generally a good idea to have some tty's lying around though |
| 18:03.04 | boudiccas | fasta: i like minirok and use that when i listen to music, and nowt else |
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| 18:03.39 | kevlarman | for when the right circumstances cause X to lock up |
| 18:03.57 | fasta | I think I will just setup a user account only for playing music. |
| 18:04.16 | fasta | So, basically just assume I will get hacked. |
| 18:04.21 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: Obviously if you started X on tty1, you could still use tty2-7 for consoles. |
| 18:04.27 | xxiao | kevlarman: i'm trying to understand x, tty, fbcon, framebuffer, sdl, directfb.... |
| 18:04.41 | simonlnu | "KILL IT! KILL IT NOW!" sort of situations. |
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| 18:04.45 | fasta | xxiao: I think you can better not try to do that. |
| 18:04.46 | Zappallero | xxiao: for example links2 is able to open a browser session on a tty of your choice. You can also use mplayer -vo fbdev (or fbdev2) to watch a film on *all* tty: just start the film and then switch with alt+f1 or +f2 etc etc to use other terminals while still watching the film ;-) |
| 18:04.46 | loome_ | hi |
| 18:04.48 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: Some distros hardcode tty7, some just use "next available console number". |
| 18:05.06 | fasta | xxiao: just focus on a problem you want to solve. |
| 18:05.06 | kevlarman | jhutchins_wk: who hardcodes tty7? |
| 18:05.08 | jhutchins_wk | xxiao: It's not uncomon to direct some of the main system logs to tty11&12. |
| 18:05.11 | xxiao | Zappallero: that's ascii graphic i think, i tried mplayer -vo fbdev on tty1 |
| 18:05.18 | loome_ | so, I can connect to something via ssh by doing "ssh user@something". How can I connect to a device via serial? what command would I type? |
| 18:05.38 | jhutchins_wk | kevlarman: Comment out four of your terminals and see if your X ends up on tty3 or 7. |
| 18:05.54 | xxiao | ok, will do more experiments, thanks guys! |
| 18:06.00 | Zappallero | xxiao: no, it's not ascii. try also fbgs (to read pdf files on ttys ) and fbi (to view images) |
| 18:06.01 | fasta | loome_: isn't that RS232? |
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| 18:06.09 | kevlarman | jhutchins_wk: i'm lacking a linux system at work |
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| 18:06.21 | kevlarman | jhutchins_wk: but i've never encountered a hardcoded 7 |
| 18:06.27 | kevlarman | so i'm kinda curious who does it |
| 18:06.33 | jhutchins_wk | loome_: Theoretically you can just cat a serial device to a console, and pipe stdin to it, but it's usually easier to use a terminal program like minicom. |
| 18:06.46 | jhutchins_wk | kevlarman: I have. |
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| 18:07.04 | Zappallero | xxiao: it depends also on you installation and drivers, try mplayer -vo fbdev2 if fbdev doesnt work |
| 18:07.08 | jhutchins_wk | kevlarman: I noticed it because I do tend to drop all but two consoles. |
| 18:07.28 | kevlarman | jhutchins_wk: how does that work with multiple X servers? |
| 18:07.31 | xxiao | Zappallero: thanks, trying now |
| 18:07.33 | fasta | If you don't want your users snooping around, I suppose you could do it. |
| 18:08.01 | fasta | For example in a library or something like that. I don't really see the point of doing that, though. |
| 18:08.07 | jhutchins_wk | kevlarman: Usually when you start an additional server you have to specify the console, or it may just start at 7 and take whatever's next. |
| 18:08.31 | kevlarman | jhutchins_wk: i just specify the DISPLAY usually |
| 18:08.57 | jhutchins_wk | kevlarman: Here, Debian Lenny: 2847 tty1 Ss+ 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2848 tty2 Ss+ 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2 2849 tty7 Ss+ 17:24 /usr/bin/X -br -nolisten tcp :0 vt7 -auth /var/run/xauth/A:0-gwb9jD |
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| 18:09.20 | kevlarman | heh, interesting |
| 18:09.45 | jhutchins_wk | I know that system will do "Switch User" and start a second X session. |
| 18:09.57 | Zappallero | xxiao: you can also play different videos at the same time and they'll keep playing all together on the screen also if you switch to a different tty number. (my problem is: i am still looking for a way to set a custom position for the mplayer videos, so that i can put the video on the upper-right corner ) |
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| 18:10.15 | jhutchins_wk | The second session is on tty8. |
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| 18:11.06 | jhutchins_wk | Zappallero: Pretty sure there's a way to specify screen position for mplayer, but don't know the details. |
| 18:11.06 | xxiao | need add vga=ask, can't switch to tty now |
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| 18:17.01 | pkkm | Is it a good backup method to rsync whole / to an external drive on the network (without virtual directories like /dev), and in order to restore the backup, rsync the external drive to / (again excluding virtual directories), with the --delete option (which will delete files not in backup)? I have rsync installed on the system being backed up. |
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| 18:18.32 | lcc | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:19.31 | jhutchins_wk | pkkm: That's not a good method unless you exclude things like /proc, /sys, and /dev |
| 18:19.57 | jhutchins_wk | pkkm: Preferred method is to boot to a different source and not do "live". |
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| 18:25.09 | pkkm | jhutchins_wk: well, I can't install another OS on the machine (or boot from a bootable medium), because it's a virtual machine. So the solution must include a system modifying itself to be like the backup. |
| 18:25.31 | pkkm | jhutchins_wk: do you know what bad can happen when restoring "live"? |
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| 18:34.36 | Some_Person | What's that command that tells you the UUIDs? |
| 18:34.39 | jhutchins_wk | pkkm: You can use your hypervisor's features to back up the VM. |
| 18:34.48 | dvs | blkid |
| 18:34.59 | jhutchins_wk | pkkm: Don't try to restore system-runtime-generated files. |
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| 18:35.07 | Some_Person | dvs: thanks |
| 18:35.10 | dvs | np |
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| 18:37.01 | Some_Person | hmm, that's odd. I seem to have two swap devices (/dev/vda2 and /dev/vdb) |
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| 18:37.22 | abrotman | what's wrong with that ? |
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| 18:38.03 | Some_Person | Nothing, it's just unexpected |
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| 18:38.37 | Some_Person | Do I even really need vda2 if vdb is a swap device I can use? |
| 18:38.43 | surf | hi all. I have a stupid question: when I run apt-get update it replies me 120 packages not updated. If I run apt-get upgrade nothing happens. How comes? running deb wheezy 64 |
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| 18:40.21 | engla | upgrade vs. dist-upgrade |
| 18:40.25 | Some_Person | Huh, fdisk says "Disk /dev/vdb doesn't contain a valid partition table |
| 18:40.25 | Some_Person | " |
| 18:40.30 | Zappallero | xxiao: try "links2 -g" (graphical browser for ttys). Try also fbterm if you are interested in settings fonts/sizes of character used in the tty |
| 18:40.39 | dvs | surf: Maybe because installing those packages will add/remove other packages. |
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| 18:41.29 | surf | dvs, but packages like php5, mysql, gnome-desktop-environment? |
| 18:42.08 | dvs | surf: for gnome-desktop-environment, I _definately_ expect it to add/remove packages. |
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| 18:42.51 | Zappallero | pkkm: on a virtual machine you can boot from an iso file (for example a live-cd) and still be able to work on the disk of that vm. |
| 18:42.53 | surf | dvs, yes ok but then I don't get what's the problem. I mean I am running gnome 3.4.2 |
| 18:43.40 | dvs | surf: The problem is, as engla said, is upgrade vs. dist-upgrade |
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| 18:44.47 | engla | surf: open apt-get's man page and read about upgrade and dist-upgrade |
| 18:45.12 | surf | ah gosh didn't see that post. ok yes seems that's the point. So considering I'm experiencing problems with tracker I could try a new version of it |
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| 18:45.53 | dvs | ,info tracker |
| 18:45.54 | judd | Package tracker (utils, optional) in squeeze/i386: metadata database, indexer and search tool. Version: 0.8.17-1; Size: 859.9k; Installed: 2744k; Homepage: http://www.tracker-project.org/ |
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| 18:53.02 | th1 | is there a package I can install on Wheezy to get a desktop that's more like the old Gnome one? I've *really* tried giving Gnome3's default UI a chance and used it for 4 months and I have come to hate it with a passion |
| 18:53.12 | sney | there isn't |
| 18:53.28 | sney | well, xfce4 is kind of, I suppose |
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| 18:53.49 | th1 | I guess I'll have to try that then |
| 18:54.04 | th1 | aptitude install xfce4-desktop? |
| 18:54.06 | sney | there was an attempt to get Cinnamon (Mint's modified gnome3) packaged for wheezy but it missed the cutoff... it'll probably wind up in wheezy-backports when that happens, though |
| 18:54.20 | th1 | ah |
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| 18:54.34 | sney | !install xfce |
| 18:54.34 | dpkg | To install <Xfce> on established systems, ask me about <install x>, then: aptitude install xfce4 xfce4-goodies . To install using Debian-Installer (if not using Xfce CD-1): from the Installer boot menu, select "Advanced options > Alternative desktop environments > Xfce > Install". |
| 18:54.36 | th1 | some 3rd party backport? |
| 18:54.46 | sney | no, official backports for stable |
| 18:55.11 | th1 | thanks sney |
| 18:55.30 | th1 | I'll try xfce4 as a stopgap |
| 18:55.51 | th1 | it's gotten to a point where it's driving me crazy ;) |
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| 18:58.25 | oops | If I install xfce4, can I use gnome's network manager to automatically detect wifi? |
| 18:58.36 | oops | I mean, do I lose any of the user-friendly-convenience stuff that gnome provides? |
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| 18:58.57 | th1 | oops, if I don't respond in 5 minutes the answer is no ;) |
| 18:59.45 | sney | oops: installing xfce doesn't remove anything else |
| 18:59.45 | Zappallero | "< th1> I've *really* tried giving Gnome3's default UI a chance and used it for 4 months and I have come to hate it with a passion" ... welcome to the club :) |
| 18:59.56 | sney | I don't mind it but I'm pretty weird |
| 19:00.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1271] by debhelper |
| 19:00.12 | sney | I likely will try cinnamon once that package rolls out though |
| 19:00.21 | oops | sney, what do you not mind? |
| 19:00.21 | BerMeJo | someone could help me with iceweasel libraries after dist-upgrade? ->http://paste.debian.net/179344/ |
| 19:00.28 | sney | the gnome3 interface |
| 19:00.42 | stew | BerMeJo: did you check the bts yet? |
| 19:00.51 | oops | sney, I thought once I install xfce, it'll give me a new desktop. In that new desktop, how come gnome network managera applet would be present? |
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| 19:01.06 | jhutchins_wk | I think there was another fork of Gnome besides cinnamon.... |
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| 19:01.11 | BerMeJo | stew, I did not find nothing |
| 19:01.18 | oops | has anyone else felt that gnome3 has a slower startup time than gnome2? |
| 19:01.21 | BerMeJo | it is difficult with links too |
| 19:01.30 | oops | that's the only thing that bothers me with gnome3. It seems slower than gnome2. |
| 19:01.53 | engla | oops: yes |
| 19:01.56 | sney | oops: installing xfce will give you a new desktop _option_. but network-manager-gnome works in xfce, last I checked; the applet is not really dependent on much besides gtk |
| 19:02.04 | jhutchins_wk | oops: Take a look at what gnome runs when it starts up. |
| 19:02.22 | th1 | oops, I have now logged in with xfce |
| 19:02.31 | th1 | I can't see the network manager applet anywhere but I'm still connected to the wireless |
| 19:02.47 | stew | BerMeJo: did you look at #638903 ? |
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| 19:03.02 | oops | jhutchins, how can I get a list of all things that gnome runs when it starts up? |
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| 19:04.57 | ddvlad | hi there, how large should a typical debian (desktop) root partition be? i'm not mounting anything else that /home separately. |
| 19:05.20 | ddvlad | I ask because arch linux takes all of my 10G right now :( |
| 19:05.48 | jhutchins_wk | ddvlad: I've done it in less than 10G. |
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| 19:06.45 | ddvlad | jhutchins_wk: I can imagine it can be done, I'm asking for a rough estimation for a desktop system where I would occasionally be able to test, e.g. KDE instead of GNOME. |
| 19:06.57 | ddvlad | 10G is probably not nearly enough, but what would be? |
| 19:07.16 | jhutchins_wk | ddvlad: I have Lenny in 5G. |
| 19:07.53 | sney | 10G would actually be ok. I have test VMs that are limited to 10 |
| 19:07.59 | jhutchins_wk | That includes some cruft in my $HOME |
| 19:08.40 | kevlarman | ddvlad: sharing /home between debian and arch is a bad idea |
| 19:08.41 | ddvlad | Hmm, I'll try with 10G then, after all it's not a big deal to reinstall. But it *would* be a big deal if I didn't have to back up everything to resize partitions :) |
| 19:08.51 | Zappallero | jhutchins_wk: ddvlad : i have wheezy on 3.3G (but *no* gnome and no kde) |
| 19:08.56 | kevlarman | chances are at least one will cause problems for the other |
| 19:09.00 | ddvlad | kevlarman: I'm looking to get rid of arch, not share. |
| 19:09.15 | ddvlad | (and I'm not looking to start a distro war) |
| 19:09.20 | jhutchins_wk | I have an RHEL5 server I recently built, the OS there takes about 2G. |
| 19:09.53 | th1 | can't say this xfce4 works super well :( |
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| 19:10.11 | ddvlad | I'll try this with the 10G I already have, let's see what happens |
| 19:10.14 | th1 | the screen flickers when I switch between windows and Application Shortcuts doesn't have a place to enter the actual shortcuts! |
| 19:10.34 | th1 | also it doesn't have half the applications in its menu .. |
| 19:10.34 | simonlnu | you're doing it wrong |
| 19:10.41 | jhutchins_wk | ddvlad: Unless you know exactly how you're going to use the system and exactly where data will accumulate, keep it all in one partition. Otherwise you will inevetably end up with the space you need on the wrong partition. |
| 19:11.02 | oops | ddvlad, I'm using 12 GB in / partition. My /home is a separate partition. |
| 19:11.09 | th1 | ddvlad, use lvm and start with 5GB or so and then grow it when needed |
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| 19:11.36 | Zappallero | is there an *hal-free* alternative to wmbattery? |
| 19:11.40 | ddvlad | th1: hmm, never used lvm, i'll have to read on that |
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| 19:13.00 | th1 | is it normal for the screen to flicker in xfce4 whenever I move or resize a window or switch windows? |
| 19:13.03 | th1 | or even activate the menu |
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| 19:13.47 | jwasp | th1: no |
| 19:14.05 | jhutchins_wk | th1: I would suppose it depends on the resolution. xfce doesn't actually have much to do with effects like that. |
| 19:14.33 | jwasp | i liked xfce4 when i used it |
| 19:14.58 | jhutchins_wk | jwasp: Lots of people do. Isn't it what Linus is supposedly using now? |
| 19:15.15 | BerMeJo | stew: it does not solve my issue |
| 19:15.18 | BerMeJo | same problem |
| 19:15.18 | engla | xfce is very out of the way |
| 19:15.53 | jhutchins_wk | engla: I would disagree, it's probably the next most popular desktop after Gnome & KDE. |
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| 19:16.35 | simonlnu | nah, it's very popular |
| 19:16.36 | engla | jhutchins_wk: I'm not talking about popularity. just that the desktop doesn't get in the way, it just works with the few things it does for me |
| 19:17.06 | jhutchins_wk | engla: Ah, misunderstood. |
| 19:17.27 | BerMeJo | Anybody could help me with iceweasel (and other web browser) and library problems into debian testing? -> http://paste.debian.net/179385/ |
| 19:17.55 | Zappallero | what about fvwm-crystal ? it seems good |
| 19:18.03 | jhutchins_wk | BerMeJo: You are supposed to be helping us find and fix those problems, that's what testing is for. |
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| 19:19.23 | abrotman | looks at jhutchins_wk |
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| 19:19.35 | jhutchins_wk | BerMeJo: Is the file there? |
| 19:19.44 | abrotman | BerMeJo: check the file is there, check the md5sum, check the format |
| 19:19.51 | BerMeJo | jhutchins_wk: no it is not |
| 19:19.58 | abrotman | !tell BerMeJo about apt-file |
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| 19:23.35 | th1 | "Gnome Classic" is slightly less retarded than Gnome3 or xfce4 |
| 19:23.41 | th1 | I guess it'll do for now |
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| 19:28.43 | BerMeJo | I have it |
| 19:28.44 | BerMeJo | thank you |
| 19:28.54 | BerMeJo | i have to purge libnss3 |
| 19:29.20 | BerMeJo | and reinstall it, aptitude upgrade/dist-upgrade does not do anything with this file yesterday |
| 19:29.25 | dvs | like bug 638903 said? |
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| 19:30.20 | BerMeJo | dvs I think it did not say it, or maybe I miss it |
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| 19:31.38 | dvs | that's exactlt what the report says to do |
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| 19:32.19 | BerMeJo | dvs: I'm sorry for confussion then, and thank you all of you for your time |
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| 19:36.27 | xxiao | with you guys' help i'm playing video from tty1 :) |
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| 19:36.42 | xxiao | also fbi works fine, it took me a while to get tty1 in a good resolution mode |
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| 19:44.34 | Zappallero | if i use "aptitude search $string" i can search a string in the list of packages. Is there a way to do a search in the descriptions of the packages and get those packages listed ? |
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| 19:45.40 | rgenito_ | just curious, if a script instantiating a bunch of Xvfb's is taking 3 seconds on one server, and 30 seconds on another server... what is the possible culprit? |
| 19:45.45 | rgenito_ | i know a lot of things can be, |
| 19:45.53 | abrotman | Zappallero: aptitude search '~dstring' |
| 19:45.58 | rgenito_ | but the "another" server is less busy, and has much better hardware specs |
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| 19:46.04 | tremon | Zappallero: http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s05.html |
| 19:46.08 | rgenito_ | then again... i'm not sure how its video processing is :) |
| 19:46.59 | rgenito_ | (the "another" machine has 50GB free) |
| 19:47.24 | rgenito_ | so, what other things could be a bottle neck for Xvfb? how can i monitor if they are a bottle neck on debian? |
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| 19:47.40 | rgenito_ | (for example, i do "free -g" to see the free memory... anything i can do to check the disk?) |
| 19:48.03 | Zappallero | abrotman: it doesnt work. it replies with a " E: Unknown pattern type: f " after i did "aptitude search '~frame' " |
| 19:48.34 | abrotman | Zappallero: i said ~d |
| 19:48.41 | abrotman | so do you want ~dframe ? |
| 19:49.01 | abrotman | Zappallero: ~d is shorthand for Descsription |
| 19:49.06 | abrotman | but spelled correctly |
| 19:49.13 | stew | or aptitude search '?description(frame)' |
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| 19:49.18 | Zappallero | ah, right. sorry i forgot the 'd' . It works perfectly. thanks |
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| 19:50.17 | Zappallero | tremon: thanks! very complete index :) |
| 19:50.49 | rgenito_ | any idea why a 1024x768x32bpp Xvfb would take >30 seconds to create? we're talking about a machine with 50GB of RAM... |
| 19:51.18 | abrotman | not enough RAM ? |
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| 19:52.52 | Zappallero | xxiao: you can also try directvnc |
| 19:52.58 | gosi | abrotman: :D |
| 19:53.32 | rgenito_ | abrotman: there's enough RAM |
| 19:53.34 | rgenito_ | =\ |
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| 19:58.25 | abrotman | rgenito_: video card? |
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| 19:59.03 | rgenito_ | does Xvfb really depend on the video card? |
| 19:59.33 | abrotman | you asked what might cause it .. just a thought |
| 19:59.56 | rgenito_ | i dont know if Xvfb depends on the video card or not =\ |
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| 20:05.27 | nkuttler | rgenito_: apt-cache show xvfb |
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| 20:05.56 | rgenito_ | thank nkuttler, but what am i looking for in there? |
| 20:06.13 | nkuttler | the description? |
| 20:06.28 | nkuttler | like, the first line "Xvfb provides an X server that can run on machines with no display hardware" |
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| 20:07.21 | jhutchins_wk | Gah, been using RPM too much lately. What's the command to ask "which package did this file come from"? |
| 20:07.25 | rgenito_ | nkuttler: ahh, thanks |
| 20:07.43 | nkuttler | jhutchins_wk: dpkg -S |
| 20:07.52 | nkuttler | jhutchins_wk: also /msg dpkg search |
| 20:08.03 | rgenito_ | reading that was helpful. but now the problem still remains unsolved... as to why machine A is significantly faster than machine B (where machine A is spec'd horribly compared to machine B) |
| 20:08.45 | nkuttler | rgenito_: well you'll probably need quite some resources to emulate a framebuffer and the supporting hardware |
| 20:09.23 | nkuttler | rgenito_: i run xvfb on a weak vps with like 2G ram though, no problems |
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| 20:09.34 | nkuttler | but the app is rather simple |
| 20:09.43 | haole | hey there! i'm on a Intel VTX capable box and I'm runnin Debian as a guest VM with VirtualBox... what do I need to install/configure in debian (my guest) to support this virtualization stuff? |
| 20:10.04 | kevlarman | haole: nothing |
| 20:10.26 | kevlarman | haole: it's all up to the vm software |
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| 20:10.56 | haole | kevlarman: that's a shame... virtualbox (under windows) is configured to use it, but is reporting to me that it is failing to do so... i thought my guest was missing something |
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| 20:11.15 | rgenito_ | nkuttler: yes, but the machine that is performing horribly with Xvfb (performing great with everything else) is running on a machine with 50GB ram. |
| 20:11.19 | rgenito_ | soo, it's a mystery |
| 20:11.59 | nkuttler | rgenito_: no idea then. try the xvfb mailing list maybe? or check if there are debug options etc |
| 20:12.12 | rgenito_ | ah, might be a frameset issue... |
| 20:12.22 | nkuttler | oh, it's part of x.org.. |
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| 20:13.27 | gele | !wheezy |
| 20:13.27 | dpkg | The release following squeeze will be called "wheezy" (the rubber toy penguin with a red bow tie) and will be Debian 7.0. Wheezy was frozen on June 30, 2012. Ask me about <testing>, <freeze>. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWheezy #debian-next on irc.debian.org. |
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| 20:18.37 | jhutchins_wk | nkuttler: Thanks. Got a system that I haven't added any users to in a while, probably since I moved to Etch from Mandriva. All my little tools to make adding new users easy didn't make the move. |
| 20:18.54 | jasuys | i have some documents in many subdirectories, i would like to move them to a common folder, how can i pipe the ls -R command which will give me my list of files into a move or copy command? |
| 20:19.00 | jhutchins_wk | I can never remember which versions of useradd don't create the home directory. |
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| 20:19.24 | jhutchins_wk | Jayrays: find .... -exec |
| 20:19.54 | jhutchins_wk | jasuys: Sorry, that was for you. |
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| 20:20.11 | jasuys | ah ty jhutchins |
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| 20:22.02 | gele | Hm. Would 300 MB of free space on the filesystem that holds /var/cache/apt be enough to do a dist-upgrade from Squeeze to Wheezy, with a full GNOME desktop and some other installed packages? |
| 20:22.16 | sney | maybe |
| 20:22.21 | sney | I kind of doubt it though |
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| 20:22.49 | sney | try running it with just -d so if it fills up it'll just be on the download stage |
| 20:23.02 | gele | sney: Thanks, hadn't thought about that. |
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| 20:23.42 | nkuttler | gele: if you have free disk space somewhere else just mount it there? |
| 20:24.05 | stew | or temporarily change Dir::Cache |
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| 20:30.46 | gele | Hm. I don't have enough space anywhere. |
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| 20:31.03 | gele | Apparently I need 3GB. |
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| 20:32.59 | nkuttler | gele: get rid of gnome, upgrade core, reinstall gnome? just a guess though |
| 20:33.22 | nkuttler | or get rid of the biggest packages, like game stuff etc |
| 20:33.53 | gele | Yeah, I'll have to do something like that. |
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| 20:34.40 | nkuttler | gele: also debfoster, deborphan might help a little bit. i assume you did apt-get clean |
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| 20:40.48 | gele | goes on a debfoster rampage. |
| 20:40.56 | resixian | any recommendations for antimalware suite? i have a couple of *nix boxes and about 20 winxp-7 machines and one win2000 machine |
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| 20:42.29 | resixian | i was looking at immunet 3.0, but it seems immature. id like to find sth I can adminster from our debian server, maybe like avira professional. any suggestions appreciated |
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| 20:44.23 | gnarface | so, does squeeze boot on the raspberry pi? |
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| 20:46.08 | nkuttler | gnarface: sure. maybe you need to create a compatible rom first though |
| 20:46.19 | gele | Hm. Apparently the upgraded packages would use 2 GB more than the current versions, which I can't fit on the system disk anyway. |
| 20:46.27 | nkuttler | or does the raspberry boot off external drives? |
| 20:46.29 | gele | wonders what it is that has grown by 2 GB. |
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| 20:46.52 | nkuttler | gele: well, gnome alone could account for that i guess |
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| 20:48.27 | gele | nkuttler: I'll log out and remove gnome then, and try again. I don't mind switching to e.g. XFCE. |
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| 20:48.54 | nkuttler | hm... i just would have upgraded without gui. anyway |
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| 20:49.18 | barhom | Im trying to run a Diskless debootstrapped Debian over NFS and experimented on how to create and run my kernel with dhcp and tftp successfully inside virtual box (1 vm serving as pxe server and the other vm as a diskless client). However, when I do the exact thing on the actual computer that I wish to use I get the following errors on boot "IP Config no response after X seconds", IP-config: eth0 hardware address xxxx mtu 1 |
| 20:49.18 | barhom | DHCPā¦ then same for eth1 etc |
| 20:49.54 | barhom | In the DHCP server logs I can see that it is successfully asking for an IP once the kernel boots, but for some reason its not taking it. The weird thing is that this exact setup works for me in virtualbox |
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| 20:55.23 | niriven | hi, anyone try wheezy and the wpa support in the installer yet? cant seem to understand ho to get it to work. it asks for some ucode files, which i have on a usb drive, then it says it cannot find any access points to connect to. i type in an SSID, then it asks for a WEP key, not a WPA password. |
| 20:55.47 | jwasp | barhom: APPEND ip=dhcp root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=.., |
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| 20:56.30 | barhom | jwasp: append initrd=kernel/initrd.img root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp nfsroot=10.0.0.1:/srv/pxe/folder15 |
| 20:57.00 | jwasp | ok, out of ideas |
| 20:57.06 | barhom | Thats how I have it at the moment, but is there a way to disable eth1 here and force it to use dhcp on eth0 only? |
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| 20:57.34 | barhom | The problem seems to lie in that it sends a DHCP on both eth0 and eth1 after kernel boots and then it doesn't receive an answer for eth1 (because there is no cable attached) |
| 20:59.33 | trysten | #debian! i did it! it took a long time but i got the livecd to boot with console display. i picked the grub entry that disabled KMS! yay! |
| 20:59.50 | trysten | how can i disable this for debian? |
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| 21:00.48 | tremon | trysten: which card? |
| 21:02.35 | niriven | noone has tried wheezy wpa support in the installer? :) |
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| 21:04.10 | trysten | tremon: nvidia geforce 4 MX 4000 |
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| 21:05.31 | jwasp | barhom: read Documentation/nfs/nfsroot.txt its in there, <device> |
| 21:05.44 | travisgriggs | i'm a building up a little single board computer (arm, lenny), I want to be able to put my own .deb's on a usb stick, which I can then point apt at somehow and load. is there an easy to understand document somewhere that explains how you a) configure /etc/apt/source.list to look at a usb stick for packages and b) how you layout the files on the usb stick so it basically constitutes a small debian repository? |
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| 21:06.59 | jordanm | !tell travisgriggs about apt offline |
| 21:07.10 | jordanm | travisgriggs: lenny is already not supported, consider using squeeze |
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| 21:09.01 | travisgriggs | jordanm, not an option on this board. it's a TechnologicSystem's embedded arm board, the chip uses the old arm abi. we may switch to one of their newer devices which supports newer arm chips. but that's a chapter for another day :) |
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| 21:13.33 | jordanm | travisgriggs: did the linux kernel drop support for the older arm chips? where is the incompatibility? |
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| 21:16.23 | barhom | jwasp: Thanks, the solution was this: ip=:::::eth0:dhcp |
| 21:17.32 | travisgriggs | jordanm: TS has a version for 2.6.36 kernel, but it's only partial, and as is. they support the lenny/2.4.26 combination. from the wikipedia pageā¦ squeeze "dropped architectures: alpha, hppa, OABI[98] arm." |
| 21:17.39 | travisgriggs | it's that OABI arm that is gone |
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| 21:18.01 | travisgriggs | cavmium (the maker of this particular chip) isn't doing the new one (the one that armel is for) |
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| 21:21.30 | kellies | Circumcision should be banned unless the person being operated on is 18 years of age or older and has attended a class of sorts to explain what circumcision will do |
| 21:21.49 | simonlnu | kellies: do you have a debian question? |
| 21:22.19 | trysten | kellies: ask how to disable kernelmodesetting |
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| 21:22.42 | simonlnu | trysten: modeset=0 on kernel command line |
| 21:23.12 | trysten | doh |
| 21:24.08 | kellies | strips the penis of all its specialized erogenous tissue |
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| 21:24.35 | ompaul | !ops do us a favour kellies needs to walk elsewhere |
| 21:24.36 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: ompaul complains about: do us a favour kellies needs to walk elsewhere |
| 21:24.37 | LtL | kellies: wtf is wrong with you!!! |
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| 21:24.52 | *** mode/#debian [+o Hydroxide] by ChanServ |
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| 21:24.52 | *** kick/#debian [kellies!jimmy@debian/developer/jimmy] by Hydroxide (you should know better) |
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| 21:25.03 | ompaul | thanks |
| 21:25.11 | travisgriggs | chuckle |
| 21:25.57 | LtL | excuse my candor, thanks Hydroxide |
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| 21:26.54 | travisgriggs | what happens if i use dpkg -i <myown.deb> on a system that is otherwise maintained using apt-get. does apt-get confused? |
| 21:26.59 | jhutchins_wk | The constant churn of packages on Ubuntu is just nuts. |
| 21:27.20 | jordanm | travisgriggs: no |
| 21:27.22 | jhutchins_wk | travisgriggs: Shouldn't, that's the right way to do custom packages. |
| 21:27.27 | LtL | travisgriggs: should be fine |
| 21:27.29 | jagginess | travisgriggs, the .deb should be compatible (you have to manually verify this) |
| 21:28.01 | jagginess | travisgriggs, if that .deb needs dependencies not installed, you'll have to do "apt-get -f install" after |
| 21:28.10 | jhutchins_wk | LtL: Just a troll, best not to feed them. Let the ops know and they'll handle it. |
| 21:28.51 | LtL | jhutchins_wk: yes you're quite right, it's the second time that business has happened recently is all. |
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| 21:28.59 | travisgriggs | thx jordanm, LtL, jagginess. that helps. i don't need to know how to do the apt-get on a usb thing then. I own the whole process, I'll just make a little script that sucks .deb files from known spot on my usb's and dpkg -i's them. that's much simpler |
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| 21:29.35 | jagginess | travisgriggs, .deb's from where? I thoguht you were asking about 1 .deb file |
| 21:30.14 | jagginess | travisgriggs, if its many, it may be dependencies -- so you'l have to do, dpkg -i <package1.deb> <package2.deb> , on the same line |
| 21:30.19 | jordanm | travisgriggs: dpkg -i *.deb |
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| 21:30.55 | jagginess | travisgriggs, and you can always type apt-get -f install to make sure it's all installed right |
| 21:31.06 | travisgriggs | would be at most a couple of them. and i make them myself |
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| 21:33.15 | trysten | simonlnu: modeset=0 did not work. nomodeset did. thank you! |
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| 21:40.17 | ponyofdeath | hi, having issues using debian wheezy installer netboot images. i am getting "no kernel modules found" missmatch between installer kernel and archive. Any ideas? |
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| 21:41.16 | jordanm | ponyofdeath: install squeeze and then upgrade |
| 21:42.03 | ompaul | ponyofdeath: the correct path to install wheezy at this time is to install squeeze and then change sources and dist-upgrade - you could alternatively get the latest wheezy installer netboot image (usually your error is that it is older than the current install system is ready for) |
| 21:42.17 | ompaul | ponyofdeath: but squeeze is the only supported way |
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| 21:43.13 | ponyofdeath | ompaul: ok where do i get the latest wheezy installer netboot |
| 21:43.14 | Guest29698 | [FAIL] Starting deferred execution scheduler: atd failed! |
| 21:43.19 | Guest29698 | how screwed am I |
| 21:43.32 | ponyofdeath | ompaul: i am trying to get pxe to auto install wheezy |
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| 21:44.56 | ompaul | ponyofdeath: pick any painful way to install ;-) just one ... http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/ |
| 21:45.30 | ompaul | ponyofdeath: it is not the supported route - so if it fails - your right way is squeeze |
| 21:46.31 | ponyofdeath | ompaul: thats fine i am looking just for the initrd and linux kernel netboot stuff |
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| 21:48.34 | jordanm | \Jan: do you need or use atd? |
| 21:48.56 | \Jan | Probably not |
| 21:49.36 | jordanm | \Jan: then i would say "not very screwed" |
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| 21:53.30 | \Jan | Yay. |
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| 21:57.28 | STS-125 | \Jan: grep atd /var/log/syslog |
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| 21:57.44 | STS-125 | does this command echo anything? |
| 21:57.57 | \Jan | nope |
| 21:58.03 | enlace_quimico | man echo |
| 21:58.26 | \Jan | also: from a vps: |
| 21:58.27 | \Jan | root@atlas:~# echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches |
| 21:58.27 | \Jan | bash: /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches: Permission denied |
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| 21:59.30 | \Jan | and mount shows |
| 21:59.31 | \Jan | proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) |
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| 22:01.23 | STS-125 | \Jan try "sync && echo 1 > proc/sys/vm/drop_caches |
| 22:01.25 | STS-125 | " |
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| 22:01.53 | *** part/#debian CyberGabber (~CyberGabb@188-180-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl) |
| 22:02.03 | \Jan | same error |
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| 22:03.36 | LtL | \Jan: wild guess, put 1 in quotes |
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| 22:04.12 | \Jan | same error |
| 22:04.38 | STS-125 | \Jan : how did you get root privileges? |
| 22:04.42 | STS-125 | su or sudo -i? |
| 22:04.47 | \Jan | su |
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| 22:05.38 | LtL | \Jan: that will overwrite that file, is that what you want? |
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| 22:06.07 | \Jan | yes |
| 22:06.14 | \Jan | # cat /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches |
| 22:06.14 | \Jan | 0 |
| 22:06.40 | \Jan | ram caches annoy me for odd reasons |
| 22:06.50 | \Jan | but I can't seem to be able to do anything in /proc |
| 22:06.56 | jordanm | \Jan: you are probably in a openvz/vserver/virtuozzo container. its not a real VM and does not have access to many kernel-level functions |
| 22:07.25 | \Jan | meh, okay |
| 22:07.35 | \Jan | thanks |
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| 22:14.25 | LRN | 3.4.4 from experimental fails to boot (turns off the screen somewhere around [drm]) |
| 22:14.42 | LRN | Where do i report that? |
| 22:14.49 | nkuttler | !tell LRN about bts |
| 22:15.07 | LRN | oh-kay... |
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| 22:18.03 | PrinceAMD- | hey guys what package is the program name 'arp' in? |
| 22:18.16 | jordanm | PrinceAMD-: apt-file search bin/arp |
| 22:18.32 | jordanm | ,file bin/arp |
| 22:18.40 | judd | Search for bin/arp in squeeze/i386: net-tools: usr/sbin/arp |
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| 22:19.58 | PrinceAMD- | ah thanks judd jordanm i have net-tools installed but i needed to be root to access arp :/ |
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| 22:20.37 | jordanm | PrinceAMD-: probably not to view the arp table, but /sbin and /usr/sbin are not in a user's PATH by default |
| 22:21.07 | PrinceAMD- | correct there, i need to fix my $PATH |
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| 22:23.14 | Circuitsoft | I am having a very odd problem with virt-manager. I go to create a new vm, and as soon as I type a character into the name field, the whole application freezes. |
| 22:23.31 | reavengrey | somebodyyyyy |
| 22:23.34 | Circuitsoft | Any idea how to debug this? |
| 22:23.34 | reavengrey | I used to knowwww |
| 22:24.36 | Circuitsoft | It's very quiet in here. |
| 22:24.49 | reavengrey | is not very good with linux, sorry |
| 22:24.50 | jordanm | Circuitsoft: make sure your user is in the libvirt group |
| 22:24.53 | reavengrey | but in return |
| 22:25.04 | reavengrey | ... |
| 22:25.07 | LRN | oh, by the way, how do i look up dmesg from a previous (unsuccessful) boot? |
| 22:25.12 | reavengrey | actually nvm I have nothing whatsoever to offer |
| 22:25.14 | reavengrey | LOL |
| 22:25.56 | Circuitsoft | jordanm: It is. It was working earlier today, but I did a system update. Now... |
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| 22:26.33 | Circuitsoft | All I really did is switch from Nouveau to Nvidia-Glx.Not sure why that would affect libvirt. |
| 22:27.23 | jordanm | Circuitsoft: what version of debian? |
| 22:27.29 | Circuitsoft | Wheezy. |
| 22:28.40 | naiv | Do you know why IĀ get only a 64kb file with : tr "\000" "\377" < /dev/zero | dd of=100Mo bs=100M count=1 |
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| 22:29.04 | \Jan | Oh, for anyone using a kernel 3.2.x or higher, have you noticed higher load averages than with previous kernels? |
| 22:29.21 | \Jan | for about the same amount of processing |
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| 22:30.57 | Circuitsoft | jordanm: I'm starting to think it is an nvidia thing; switching tabs in Chrome is extremely slow as well. |
| 22:31.18 | jordanm | Circuitsoft: yes, there are bugs in the newer nvidia drivers |
| 22:31.45 | Circuitsoft | BRB; going to switch back to nouveau. |
| 22:31.45 | jordanm | Circuitsoft: nvidia-settings -a InitialPixmapPlacement=0 |
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| 22:31.49 | Circuitsoft | oh. |
| 22:31.52 | Circuitsoft | I'll try that. |
| 22:32.00 | jordanm | that should fix the issue with switching tabs in chrome atleast |
| 22:32.13 | jordanm | but it needs to be ran everytime a new X session is started |
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| 22:32.43 | jordanm | you might also find that people are blue in youtube videos... you will need a patch for that one |
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| 22:34.10 | jagginess | did a textual edit to clear blue people from youtube |
| 22:34.16 | jagginess | i have that bookmarked |
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| 22:34.49 | jagginess | http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=177380 |
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| 22:35.11 | jagginess | I believe a permanent patch is coming it's way in the near future so that textfile doesnt need editing |
| 22:35.21 | Circuitsoft | That kind of sucks, since I went to nvidia-glx due to mild rendering problems with nouveau. |
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| 22:35.37 | Circuitsoft | I guess I'd better switch back. |
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| 22:37.13 | jagginess | noticed a registration requred for forum site.. -- http://pastebin.com/2KigBHCm |
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| 22:38.10 | jagginess | Circuitsoft, i overcame the blue sking problem, that first link i pasted required registration (not the second one) |
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| 22:44.00 | tharkun | What advantages does sel.linux gives over not having it? |
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| 22:44.43 | jagginess | tharkun, nothing for most of us |
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| 22:47.34 | jordanm | tharkun: mandatory access control |
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| 22:52.40 | Kobaz | ata6: lost interrupt (Status 0x50) how would i tell which device this is (/dev/xxx, etc) |
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| 22:55.09 | tal041482 | hey everyone have a problem i have 2 nic's setup one is dhcp works fine second one is static and im not seeing the ip address for the static in ifconfig. |
| 22:55.55 | ompaul | tal041482: does it need firmware? |
| 22:56.03 | ompaul | tal041482: do ifconfig -a |
| 22:56.04 | Kobaz | tal041482: ifconfig -a do you see it? |
| 22:57.14 | tharkun | jordanm: Isn't that default on linux, Doesn't every file have access control with file permissions. What am I missing? What would be a good google term to read more about this? |
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| 22:59.16 | tal041482 | does not show the address. |
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| 22:59.38 | tharkun | tal041482: ip addr |
| 22:59.57 | Kobaz | tal041482: does it show the device |
| 23:00.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1236] by debhelper |
| 23:00.04 | jagginess | tharkun, selinux brings extra permission settings beyond chmod .. |
| 23:00.34 | tal041482 | yes |
| 23:00.44 | tal041482 | let me double check |
| 23:00.47 | jagginess | tharkun, put it basically, most of us don't need it.. and you'll never see it in action.. (sort of like what dbus is) |
| 23:00.52 | tal041482 | i see if it if ficonfig eth1 |
| 23:01.30 | Kobaz | is your /etc/network/interfaces configured properly to set an address on eth1 then? |
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| 23:02.10 | tal041482 | Kobaz: i belive it is yes |
| 23:02.29 | Kobaz | what if you do ifup eth1 |
| 23:02.34 | Kobaz | and then ifconfig eth1 |
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| 23:03.56 | tal041482 | ok tells me there is an error. |
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| 23:04.31 | tharkun | jagginess: thanks, For what google is showing i believe it will become mandatory sometime in the future. (If not precisely sel linux, something with similar capabilities) |
| 23:04.35 | jagginess | sees /usr/share/doc/ifdownup/examples hosts a tutorial interface file |
| 23:04.38 | LRN | So, about that log-keeping thing. Anyone knows how to do that? Without serial ports, that is. |
| 23:05.13 | LRN | I've tried to look at syslog after booting a good kernel again, but it only has a kilobyte of 3.4 boot log in it, then it cuts out into 3.2 boot log |
| 23:05.14 | tal041482 | Kobaz: i have address, netmask, Network, broadcast, and gateway do i need anything else? |
| 23:05.37 | Kobaz | tal041482: it would be useful to know the error... and you can pastebin your /etc/network/interfaces file |
| 23:06.15 | jagginess | tharkun, you should use google against debian's wiki.. -eg google: "selinux site:wiki.debian.org" and your results will be for debian |
| 23:06.39 | tal041482 | Kobaz: i wish i could i can not get out to the net on that machine |
| 23:06.50 | LRN | bootlogd doesn't help either - i think it kicks in too late |
| 23:07.19 | LRN | boot_delay=N only delays earlier part of the boot. Later it goes back to full speed |
| 23:07.50 | tharkun | jagginess: Thanks, at the momment I'm only trying to understand how it works, I'll get to the debianization part after I fully understand it. |
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| 23:10.41 | tal041482 | Kobaz: http://pastebin.com/93XZ5XTw |
| 23:10.44 | tal041482 | i typed it in |
| 23:11.09 | LRN | whoa, booting with radeon.modeset=0 worked. |
| 23:11.26 | dvs | What's going on with KMS lately?!? |
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| 23:13.06 | or10n_ | l |
| 23:13.10 | tal041482 | Kobaz: you see anything wrong? |
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| 23:15.09 | tharkun | tal041482: tellme netmase is actually written netmask |
| 23:16.02 | pparadis | maybe it's netmace, like when you have to use self defense spray against horrible code. |
| 23:16.06 | tal041482 | slaps self and looks for coffe |
| 23:16.33 | tal041482 | i retyped it exactly like i read and missed it wow |
| 23:16.52 | tharkun | .coffee tal041482 |
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| 23:17.01 | tharkun | !coffee tal041482 |
| 23:17.01 | dpkg | decants a fine mug of fair trade International Roast Caterers Blend for tal041482, courtesy of tharkun |
| 23:17.51 | pparadis | secretly replaces it with folger's crystals instant coffee. let's see if tal041482 can tell the difference. |
| 23:17.53 | tal041482 | well i think that may mean its time to get some sleep. |
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| 23:18.05 | tal041482 | slaps that instant stuff to the ground |
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| 23:27.28 | computron | ok guys since you have been so nice now maybe you can help with the last of this issue. |
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| 23:28.07 | ManoftheSea | computron: the answer is a purple fourty-two |
| 23:28.33 | computron | I have 2 network cards in the box i want to use it as a forwarding router. |
| 23:28.40 | computron | make sense? |
| 23:28.50 | ManoftheSea | so far. |
| 23:29.24 | computron | where would i tell linux if it recieves a packet destined for an address to route it out a different interface |
| 23:29.39 | ManoftheSea | ip_forward. |
| 23:29.50 | computron | where is that located? |
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| 23:30.05 | computron | etc? |
| 23:30.15 | ManoftheSea | no. i'm trying to look it up. |
| 23:30.18 | computron | "/etc" just does not work lol |
| 23:30.19 | ManoftheSea | I don't remember off hand. |
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| 23:30.23 | dvs | it's a part of iptables |
| 23:30.47 | Diopter | You're both wrong. |
| 23:30.53 | dvs | O_O |
| 23:30.55 | Diopter | lolz |
| 23:31.10 | Diopter | It's a sysfs setting, which can be stored and reloaded on boot with sysctl |
| 23:31.13 | Diopter | Via /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 23:31.20 | Diopter | The setting you want is net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 |
| 23:31.27 | ManoftheSea | that's what I was looking for. |
| 23:31.34 | Diopter | Uncomment the line, then load it on the live system with sysctl -p /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 23:31.35 | ManoftheSea | Forgot about sysctl |
| 23:32.09 | Diopter | computron: However, you're going to also need to make sure both networks have valid routes on the middle (routing) box. |
| 23:32.17 | ManoftheSea | can also write "1" to /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward |
| 23:32.26 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Correct. Which is all sysctl is doing anyway |
| 23:32.45 | ManoftheSea | right. But that doesn't make me wrong. Just less efficient. |
| 23:32.51 | ManoftheSea | Your way is right. |
| 23:33.25 | computron | Diopter: i am using this box as the DG for both networks |
| 23:33.32 | ManoftheSea | DG? |
| 23:33.39 | Diopter | Default gateway |
| 23:33.45 | ManoftheSea | ah. |
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| 23:34.00 | *** mode/#debian [-bo *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.136.159.160.71 eir] by eir |
| 23:34.30 | Diopter | computron: So... you've got two networks attached to your router. I presume there's also a third that leads to the webernets off this router? |
| 23:34.42 | ManoftheSea | Is it necessary? |
| 23:34.43 | computron | nope no webaccess |
| 23:34.56 | computron | basically this box has a vpn tunnel |
| 23:35.06 | computron | so i want to send stuff out the tunnel |
| 23:35.11 | ManoftheSea | computron: you will also need to be sure that your forward tables in iptables aren't blocking traffic. |
| 23:35.20 | Diopter | computron: Sure. |
| 23:36.00 | ManoftheSea | that seems too easy. What's the confounding factor? |
| 23:36.17 | Diopter | lol |
| 23:36.28 | Diopter | Networking shouldn't be confounding ;P |
| 23:36.33 | ManoftheSea | Right? |
| 23:36.43 | computron | network is not confusing VPNS they are confusing brb gonna test. |
| 23:36.53 | Diopter | VPNs are super exciting. |
| 23:37.08 | Diopter | Particularly when you're trying to load-balance tunneled traffic over bonded uplinks |
| 23:37.19 | ManoftheSea | hmm, now that sounds exciting. |
| 23:37.31 | ManoftheSea | I haven't messed with bonding. |
| 23:37.34 | Diopter | IPSEC traffic usually has ESP headers, which are encapsulating the inner IP data |
| 23:37.34 | ManoftheSea | or bondage. |
| 23:37.42 | ManoftheSea | Yeah, I've played with IPSec |
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| 23:38.10 | Diopter | Meaning switches/routers that do LACP or similar bonding can't tell the data is potentially going to multiple IPs/ports |
| 23:38.22 | Diopter | So it thinks it's one single stream, and pins it to a specific link |
| 23:38.33 | ManoftheSea | oh, in tunnel mode. |
| 23:38.47 | Diopter | If it so happens your VPN traffic is near saturation... you can hotspot an uplink, even if you've got 10 in a bundle |
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| 23:38.56 | ManoftheSea | yeah, I see it. |
| 23:39.04 | ManoftheSea | So, Diopter, is there a solution for that? |
| 23:39.12 | Diopter | There is! A couple approaches, actually |
| 23:39.21 | Diopter | The basic idea is to increase the entropy of the flow. |
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| 23:39.29 | ManoftheSea | the entropy? |
| 23:39.37 | Diopter | Which you can do by either making multiple tunnels on multiple IPs on the same interfaces (multihoming) |
| 23:39.38 | ManoftheSea | why must you kill the universe? |
| 23:39.47 | Diopter | Heat death or bust, I always say |
| 23:39.57 | Diopter | But actually I just mean increase the information content :P |
| 23:40.00 | ManoftheSea | "Heat death or bust"... I need a t-shirt |
| 23:40.15 | Diopter | Multiple tunnels that you load-balance across can do it, but that kind of blows |
| 23:40.25 | ManoftheSea | Make a seperate tunnel for each link? |
| 23:40.32 | Diopter | Right. |
| 23:40.36 | ManoftheSea | ick. |
| 23:40.39 | Diopter | Or... what I prefer |
| 23:40.47 | Diopter | Use SNAT/DNAT pools |
| 23:41.22 | Diopter | To assign new tunneled flows to a pool of IPs on the same tunnel endpoint boxes |
| 23:41.40 | Diopter | Sucks if you need to do public<->public for IP waste... |
| 23:41.55 | ManoftheSea | IP Waste? |
| 23:41.57 | Diopter | But if you find yourself having gigs of VPN traffic and your datacenter ops are sniping you in the parking lot |
| 23:41.58 | ManoftheSea | I don't get it. |
| 23:42.30 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Because it wastes IPs to use a handful on each VPN endpoint. |
| 23:42.48 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: If they're private inside a corporate network you're fine. But generally VPNs are for site-to-site across the internet, using public IPs |
| 23:42.52 | ManoftheSea | ah, I follow that piece. |
| 23:43.14 | ManoftheSea | But with IPv6... |
| 23:43.27 | ManoftheSea | You can have an internet, with it's own internet, within your /64 |
| 23:43.42 | Diopter | Certainly. |
| 23:43.49 | ManoftheSea | let's go back to the DNAT/SNAT. Could you explain it again? |
| 23:43.55 | Kobaz | Yo dawg... we know your like internets. |
| 23:44.05 | ManoftheSea | is like internets indeed |
| 23:44.08 | Kobaz | So we put an internet inside you're internet |
| 23:44.33 | Kobaz | and my brain isn't functioning properly since i screwed up your/you're twice |
| 23:44.43 | dvs | yore? |
| 23:44.49 | Kobaz | yore... yes perfect |
| 23:44.56 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Absolutely. If you man iptables and /DNAT a couple times, you'll see that the --to-dest(ination) target option lets you add a range of both IPs and ports. |
| 23:45.03 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Likewise with SNAT and --to-source |
| 23:45.30 | ManoftheSea | Ok, I've seen that before... |
| 23:45.41 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: The pool used to do plain round-robin IP/port selection, but since kernel 2.6.11ish it will do a sort of intelligent weighting |
| 23:46.07 | Diopter | That seems to be based on some magic formula of characteristics of the traffic. I'm not too clear on that part |
| 23:46.14 | yazdmich | my netbook's BIOS/UEFI isn't seeing the debian ISO |
| 23:46.15 | Diopter | But it's close enough to round-robin with real-world data |
| 23:46.21 | ManoftheSea | I don't see how it puts multiple IPSec tunnels out across the links. |
| 23:46.39 | ManoftheSea | New IPSec link per internal pool address? |
| 23:46.41 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Doesn't! But it does make the routers think you're coming from/going to multiple IPs |
| 23:46.45 | dvs | yazdmich: is it a surface? ;-P |
| 23:46.58 | yazdmich | surface? |
| 23:47.01 | ManoftheSea | Diopter: I will consider this. I can't claim to get it yet. |
| 23:47.03 | dvs | nvm |
| 23:47.07 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: So, one tunnel, DNAT/SNAT'd to a pool of rotating source<->dest IPs |
| 23:47.12 | yazdmich | its an aspire one |
| 23:47.25 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Thus the routers will think they're multiple flows, and balance them on its bonded links |
| 23:48.56 | *** join/#debian noteir (~eir@freenode/utility-bot/noteir) |
| 23:49.05 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: More examply: -d 1.2.3.4 -j DNAT --to-dest 1.2.3.4-1.2.3.10, -s 2.3.4.5 -j SNAT --to-source 2.3.4.5-2.3.4.11, on one VPN box |
| 23:49.22 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: That box has the IP 2.3.4.5 on it, and tries to make a tunnel with 1.2.3.4 |
| 23:49.51 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: The other endpoint: -d 2.3.4.5 -j DNAT --to-dest 2.3.4.5-2.3.4.11, -s 1.2.3.4 -j SNAT --to-source 1.2.3.4-1.2.3.10 |
| 23:50.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1218] by debhelper |
| 23:50.02 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: That box has 1.2.3.4 on it and tries to tunnel to 2.3.4.5 |
| 23:50.06 | ManoftheSea | I see the symmetry |
| 23:50.19 | *** join/#debian Frogec (1fdfdf3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.223.223.61) |
| 23:50.35 | ManoftheSea | so... the packet is actually invalid between the endpoints? As in, the IPSec header would disagree? |
| 23:51.05 | ManoftheSea | aka, lies! ? |
| 23:51.13 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Well, ESP rides on top of IP, and DNAT/SNAT change the outer IP header |
| 23:51.19 | *** join/#debian amdgoon_ (~amdgoon@216.36.157.103) |
| 23:51.21 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: So in actual fact, no. |
| 23:51.41 | ManoftheSea | the VPNs have 7 or so contexts? |
| 23:52.01 | *** join/#debian iViLe (~bob@c211-28-198-161.chirn2.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:52.01 | ManoftheSea | or does it just have the one context, 1.2.3.4 <-> 2.3.4.5 ? |
| 23:52.02 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Yarp. Which will get rotated through with each new flow. |
| 23:52.02 | *** join/#debian pn0 (~pn0@95-31-214-222.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 23:52.25 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Well, as far as the VPN software is concerned, there is only one tunnel, one context, 1.2.3.4 <-> 2.3.4.5 |
| 23:52.36 | Kobaz | what the hell |
| 23:52.38 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: But the routers see 7*7 potential tunnels |
| 23:52.48 | Diopter | entropy++, hotspotting-- |
| 23:53.02 | ManoftheSea | How is that different from the previous case, where the VPN boxes had 7 addresses instead of spoofing 7 addresses? |
| 23:53.06 | Kobaz | opera doesn't have the word 'combust' in the words dictionary |
| 23:53.47 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Because establishing and maintaining 7*7 full tunnels (which are bidirectional, so 7*7*2) uses a lot more resources |
| 23:53.55 | Diopter | ManoftheSea: Same IP debt, but way more overhead |
| 23:54.05 | *** join/#debian Guest6686 (~anonymous@163.Red-176-83-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:54.48 | *** part/#debian Guest6686 (~anonymous@163.Red-176-83-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:55.34 | yazdmich | how do i make the debian install image bootable? |
| 23:55.55 | Diopter | yazdmich: dd it to a USB stick? |
| 23:55.57 | dvs | yazdmich: Huh? It already is1 |
| 23:56.02 | stew | yazdmich: copy it to something you could boot from, like a usb drive |
| 23:56.29 | yazdmich | it is |
| 23:56.30 | *** join/#debian SmashingX (~smashingx@unaffiliated/smashingx) |
| 23:56.39 | dvs | yazdmich: how did you do it? |
| 23:56.40 | yazdmich | but my netbook won't boot from it |
| 23:56.40 | jagginess | yazdmich, cat debian.iso >/dev/usbdrive (wipes out entires usb device) |
| 23:57.00 | yazdmich | im not on debian or OSX right now |
| 23:57.04 | jagginess | yazdmich, has to be debian6++ (doesnt work with earlier debian isoz) |
| 23:57.08 | yazdmich | im on my school laptop |
| 23:57.10 | yazdmich | yes |
| 23:57.16 | dvs | yazdmich: That should still work (if they have command lines) |
| 23:57.18 | yazdmich | its the 6.0.5 ISO |
| 23:57.23 | stew | yazdmich: which one? |
| 23:57.36 | yazdmich | debian-6.0.5-i386-netinst |
| 23:57.39 | Diopter | yazdmich: You said it wouldn't work with your netbook's "BIOS/UEFI" earlier |
| 23:57.42 | stew | yazdmich: what is the name of the file you downloaded? |
| 23:57.46 | Diopter | yazdmich: Are you sure it's not trying to boot just in EFI mode? |
| 23:58.04 | Diopter | Because the Debian ISOs don't include an EFI bootloader that I know of |
| 23:58.10 | *** join/#debian thot_ (~thot@187.171.192.217) |
| 23:58.14 | *** join/#debian vampsandroid (~androirc@c-98-215-101-160.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:59.04 | *** join/#debian PrinceAMD- (~princeamd@unaffiliated/princeamd) |