| 00:00.10 | knob | wow man |
| 00:00.17 | knob | I'm.... I'm about to jump off the deep end |
| 00:00.24 | knob | I don't know wtf is up with this thing |
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| 00:00.56 | gnarface | knob: have you considered the possibility is that there is something wrong with your dhcp server? |
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| 00:01.08 | knob | Yes! ... and I switched the router |
| 00:01.10 | gnarface | knob: ... or client for that matter? |
| 00:01.27 | gnarface | knob: which dhcpcd are you using? |
| 00:01.39 | knob | I'm not sure... how can I find out? Any specific command? |
| 00:01.55 | gnarface | knob: well there are a few. start with dpkg -l |grep dhcp -i |
| 00:02.03 | knob | ok... gimme a sec |
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| 00:02.24 | gnarface | knob: also, relevant log file is probably /var/log/daemon.log (for any daemon on debian, by default unless it has its own) |
| 00:03.26 | knob | gonna check those log files... |
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| 00:03.37 | knob | your command brought back a couple of lines.... |
| 00:03.48 | knob | I don't know if 4.1.1-P1-15+squeeze2 |
| 00:03.52 | knob | ISC DHCP server |
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| 00:06.17 | gnarface | knob: you need a client not a server. multiple clients running on the same network usually breaks stuff |
| 00:06.43 | gnarface | knob: assuming you got a client installed and running you should see entries in the log file to tell you whats going wrong |
| 00:06.48 | knob | one line says dhcp3-client |
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| 00:07.03 | knob | on my way to the log files |
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| 00:08.08 | knob | Well crap... the last log entry was from July 22nd |
| 00:08.10 | knob | Not today |
| 00:08.14 | knob | unless the time is off |
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| 00:08.28 | dvs | or your looking at the wrong log |
| 00:08.34 | knob | ok scratch that... I'm a morron |
| 00:08.36 | knob | was using vi |
| 00:08.51 | knob | How's that cat command? can I do cat daemon.log ? |
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| 00:09.15 | knob | tail... tail 0n 20 daemon.log |
| 00:09.16 | knob | lets see! |
| 00:10.20 | knob | oh yeah... something messy here.... she's saying dhcpclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 6 |
| 00:10.28 | knob | then interval 11... 21... etc |
| 00:10.36 | knob | Why is she grabbing 255.255.255.255 ? |
| 00:10.41 | knob | Something I messed up? |
| 00:11.52 | knob | Ok... I just placed tail -f -n 20 daemon.log so I can follow wth is up |
| 00:12.00 | civillian | that looks normal up until the interval 11, 21 etc |
| 00:12.03 | knob | Going to open another ssh session... and see |
| 00:12.07 | knob | oh... really? hmmmm |
| 00:12.13 | civillian | usually indicates you don't have broadcast from your client to the dhcp server |
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| 00:12.30 | dvs | knob: using both "-f" and "-n" makes no sense |
| 00:13.01 | knob | lol... I'm a n00b... is there a way to specify the last 20 lines using -f ? |
| 00:13.43 | knob | After the intervals climb, she states No DHCPOFFERS received. |
| 00:13.52 | knob | No working leases in persistent database - sleeping. |
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| 00:13.56 | civillian | tail -20f will give you a running log with 20 lines |
| 00:14.06 | civillian | yeah sounds like no layer 2 |
| 00:14.07 | knob | nice =) thanks |
| 00:14.10 | N0tch | Can anyone help me with this?: "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL" |
| 00:14.13 | knob | layer 2? |
| 00:14.38 | civillian | probably ethernet in your case |
| 00:14.54 | civillian | are they on the same switch? |
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| 00:15.35 | knob | ethernet... well... I am connecting to the machine via WiFi... and then SSHing in |
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| 00:16.48 | civillian | I'm not great with Wifi |
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| 00:17.03 | knob | coolio... =) I'm sure we'll figure this out somehow |
| 00:17.03 | civillian | does it work with a cable? |
| 00:17.13 | knob | No... with cable, I'm unable to |
| 00:17.17 | knob | WEll, ok... |
| 00:17.36 | knob | I connect the cable to the router, then WiFi into the router... and in the router's Clients List, I don't see the machine... ever |
| 00:18.06 | civillian | try to avoid using both cable and wifi on the same network |
| 00:18.13 | civillian | for the same laptop |
| 00:18.28 | knob | Well, I'd be happy to shut off the WiFi... yet I'm not sure if I'll loose the machine. |
| 00:18.31 | knob | I'm working with a Dreamplug |
| 00:18.41 | civillian | no idea what that is sorry |
| 00:18.43 | civillian | bbiaf |
| 00:18.47 | knob | this thing http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-dreamplugdetails.aspx |
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| 00:21.17 | civillian | gah it's ubuntu, bail! bail! bail! |
| 00:21.23 | civillian | eject! |
| 00:21.29 | dvs | externimate! |
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| 00:26.33 | g4mbit | lol |
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| 00:27.24 | N0tch | Anyone? "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL" ... |
| 00:28.02 | scientes | N0tch, means you need to install gl |
| 00:28.03 | N0tch | i have it |
| 00:28.04 | N0tch | ... |
| 00:28.26 | scientes | N0tch, were are going to need more context then |
| 00:28.58 | section1 | gl-dev ? |
| 00:28.59 | N0tch | scientes: okay ? well then what |
| 00:29.03 | N0tch | i have it all installed |
| 00:29.34 | N0tch | i libgl1-mesa-dev |
| 00:32.27 | nsadmin | N0tch, most dists separate libs into compile part and run part (and debug, profile and others) |
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| 00:32.35 | abrotman | delcoyote: ? |
| 00:32.39 | abrotman | ugh |
| 00:32.43 | abrotman | delcoyote: mistab, ignore |
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| 00:34.37 | jagginess | anyone knows if vi can be configured to respect samba file locking? |
| 00:35.07 | N0tch | The probably is static linking ? .. if I do -lGL it works but only without -static ... if I add -static then it says "cannot find -lGL" ... but libgl1-mesa-dev clams to provide static libs? |
| 00:35.44 | internat | silly question, basename returns just the filename of a full path.. is there a "pathname" equivlenent? |
| 00:36.27 | nsadmin | N0tch. for static linking, there would be .a libs to link to |
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| 00:36.47 | nsadmin | and you'd also put -static in the link command |
| 00:37.50 | N0tch | i did |
| 00:37.55 | themill | internat: dirname |
| 00:38.08 | nsadmin | look in /usr/lib/libgl* and see if it's there |
| 00:38.23 | N0tch | nsadmin: The only package listed that supplies libGL.a is libgl1-mesa-swx11-dev ? but that's bad because it's software rasterizing ... |
| 00:38.47 | N0tch | the page on libgl1-mesa-dev explicitly says it provides static, but it doesn't ? |
| 00:38.51 | nsadmin | wait, this might be a upper/lower case issue |
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| 00:39.02 | nsadmin | did you say -lGl? |
| 00:39.15 | internat | legend |
| 00:39.27 | nsadmin | and if so is there any /usr/lib/libGl*? |
| 00:39.34 | N0tch | nsadmin: no .. it's caps: -lGL |
| 00:39.55 | nsadmin | oh, so is there any /usr/lib/libGL*? |
| 00:40.02 | N0tch | furthermore, it works and i can static link if libgl1-mesa-swx11-dev is installed but that removes libgl1-mesa-glx and that's horrible ... |
| 00:40.08 | N0tch | yes, the .so's are there .. |
| 00:40.57 | nsadmin | removes? I'm sorry, removes what? |
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| 00:41.41 | nsadmin | or do you mean you have to remove some pieces of the linker command options? |
| 00:41.46 | N0tch | no |
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| 00:42.07 | N0tch | if i install 'libgl1-mesa-swx11-dev' it removes 'libgl1-mesa-glx' |
| 00:42.17 | nsadmin | oic |
| 00:42.23 | N0tch | but i just realized, i shouldn't be statically linking to GL .. i need to somehow static link all other libs EXCEPT GL ... |
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| 00:44.03 | nsadmin | aha, and dyn link to that one? that should be possiible, you'd have to read the man page for ld under invocation... look for where it describes -static, and see if there's a way to go back to dynamic |
| 00:44.40 | nsadmin | or, link to GL first without -static, then turn on -static after |
| 00:44.55 | nsadmin | only complication there being, order libs appear is important |
| 00:47.28 | nsadmin | what is the issue you are trying to solve by linking some dyn and some static? |
| 00:49.07 | nsadmin | N0tch, the -dev parts of the libs should have both static and dyn |
| 00:50.18 | N0tch | yeah, libgl1-mesa-dev doesn't |
| 00:50.23 | N0tch | not sure if that's a bug or not |
| 00:51.09 | nsadmin | so it's dyn because there is not static libs for that particular lib? |
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| 00:51.41 | nsadmin | and what you actually want is for it all to be static? |
| 00:51.58 | N0tch | no |
| 00:52.07 | N0tch | like i said i shouldn't be static linking GL |
| 00:52.10 | N0tch | just the other libs |
| 00:52.27 | nsadmin | if I might ask, what's the reason for that? |
| 00:52.34 | nsadmin | err for that requirement |
| 00:52.41 | N0tch | easier distribution |
| 00:52.54 | N0tch | no need for windows DLLs or package dependencies |
| 00:53.07 | nsadmin | because otherwise you'd have to include those libs? |
| 00:53.17 | N0tch | yeah the .DLLs |
| 00:53.28 | N0tch | since they're third party |
| 00:54.16 | nsadmin | oh ok, and you'd rather link those in statically so you don't need to include those |
| 00:54.41 | N0tch | yup |
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| 00:57.13 | nsadmin | so the gnu linker options are -static and -Bshared according to the ld man page... are you using gnu ld? |
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| 00:57.34 | N0tch | yeah .. |
| 00:57.43 | N0tch | it's more complex, i have to do something with -Wl |
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| 00:58.06 | nsadmin | so with that you should be able to switch back and forth between shared and static |
| 00:58.38 | nsadmin | and you can otherwise have the libs appear in the order they need to and switch just for GL |
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| 00:59.06 | nsadmin | because you're building a lib? |
| 00:59.21 | N0tch | no |
| 00:59.29 | N0tch | that passes the option to the linker |
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| 00:59.45 | N0tch | otherwise -static or -Bstatic is ignored if -Bdynamic is included @.@ |
| 01:00.20 | nsadmin | oh ok... so you're running the link step from gcc? |
| 01:00.44 | nsadmin | just so you know, if it's more convenient you can call the linker directly |
| 01:01.50 | N0tch | yeah i just have it all in one line ... |
| 01:01.58 | N0tch | not too experienced with gcc quite yet |
| 01:02.44 | nsadmin | sure :) for really complex projects, that line is gonna be LONG |
| 01:02.53 | nsadmin | but you can do it |
| 01:03.27 | N0tch | now i'm getting this: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgcc_s |
| 01:03.48 | N0tch | i have /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 |
| 01:03.53 | N0tch | but setting a symlink doesn't work either |
| 01:03.54 | nsadmin | one thing you can do with the non static, is form a .o out of your program and the result of linking it to GL by using ld -R |
| 01:04.11 | nsadmin | that would be separating the link step into two parts |
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| 01:05.26 | nsadmin | you can at least see these options in man ld, and there should also be some discussion on what can be done with which options |
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| 01:07.28 | nsadmin | anyway, food time! hope some of that helped |
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| 01:09.26 | jagginess | nsadmin, go eat and leave the rest for us. |
| 01:09.36 | dvs | oh noes! |
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| 01:09.40 | jagginess | lol |
| 01:10.32 | jagginess | wants universal flock |
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| 01:11.03 | jagginess | i spent time setting up this samba share only to find out vi can edit files even if samba claims to place a lock on them (vi running on samba server) |
| 01:11.25 | nsadmin | , version roundcube-core |
| 01:11.26 | judd | Package: roundcube-core on i386 -- lenny-backports: 0.3.1-6~bpo50+1; squeeze: 0.3.1-6; squeeze-backports: 0.7.1-1~bpo60+1; sid: 0.7.2-3; wheezy: 0.7.2-3 |
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| 01:30.51 | heroxbd | hi, is there a quick way to ping a host from a source ip that is not selected by the routing table? |
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| 01:38.33 | jagginess | heroxbd, what? |
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| 01:40.11 | jagginess | heroxbd, the routing will just drop a packet it has no idea where it came from |
| 01:40.26 | jagginess | heroxbd, even if you're able to do it, it'll be immediately dropped. |
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| 01:43.35 | esnatl | why is it that every time I get bored and start playing around installing the gamut of linux distributions, I always get bored of playing around and come back to Debian? LOL |
| 01:43.48 | abrotman | because you want stuff to work ? |
| 01:43.58 | esnatl | I guess so... |
| 01:44.09 | esnatl | :) |
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| 01:51.39 | asciiker | hello guys |
| 01:51.49 | asciiker | I need a litte help with grep |
| 01:51.55 | dvs | get a grep!\ |
| 01:52.15 | asciiker | how can I get only what's inside '<' '>' on a searched result |
| 01:52.42 | asciiker | email address in this case |
| 01:52.58 | abrotman | and throw away the > < ? |
| 01:53.03 | asciiker | yup |
| 01:53.16 | asciiker | so I can have a cron job to write those e-mails to a file |
| 01:53.48 | abrotman | that doesn't sound fishy or anything .. |
| 01:54.06 | asciiker | is it ? |
| 01:54.08 | asciiker | fishy? |
| 01:54.35 | heroxbd | jagginess: Hmmm, I have the alternative address on the interface though. |
| 01:54.55 | heroxbd | jagginess: anyway, just figure out using "ping -I <addr> <dest>" to achieve that. |
| 01:55.10 | un214 | asciiker: grep '<whatever>' | tr -d '<>' |
| 01:56.18 | asciiker | un214: thanks! tesrinf |
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| 02:01.53 | asciiker | un214: thanks but it didn't work |
| 02:02.08 | un214 | there's probably a variation that makes it work |
| 02:02.26 | *** part/#debian ParkerR (albert@withg.us.to) |
| 02:02.26 | un214 | the idea is at some point you've got this list *with* the angle brackes on each end and tr will cut them off |
| 02:02.37 | asciiker | un214: grep returns this: S=1496:2,S-<wrongperson@kimera.pt>: |
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| 02:02.44 | un214 | oh you want grep -o |
| 02:02.44 | asciiker | has to be a way to snatch the email |
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| 02:04.52 | abrotman | asciiker: where are you getting these emails from ? |
| 02:05.43 | asciiker | abrotman: I want to keep track of bounced e-mail messages that return "unknown user" when bounced |
| 02:05.57 | abrotman | ... |
| 02:06.16 | asciiker | abrotman: aproaching this the wrong way? |
| 02:06.28 | *** join/#debian BenNZ (~ben__@4.247.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz) |
| 02:06.35 | abrotman | so you're sending bulk emails and can't keep track of invalid users? |
| 02:07.10 | asciiker | I can, but it would be easier to have on a file so I can then upload to the mailing app |
| 02:07.24 | abrotman | asciiker: how is this a #debian issue? |
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| 02:07.29 | dvs | !lart asciiker |
| 02:07.30 | dpkg | beats asciiker severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken |
| 02:07.40 | asciiker | abrotman: I'm using grep on a debian server |
| 02:07.47 | simonlnu | ... |
| 02:07.48 | abrotman | asciiker: you're not likely to find many people here willing to help someone send UCE |
| 02:08.02 | asciiker | oh, you think I'm a spammer |
| 02:08.16 | asciiker | judge pretty fast don't you |
| 02:08.26 | abrotman | You just have a pile of invalid email addresses? |
| 02:08.44 | abrotman | how does that sound to you? |
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| 02:09.01 | asciiker | why do you assume I have a pile? |
| 02:09.15 | asciiker | I work for an ISP, this is the newsletter going out to all |
| 02:09.19 | asciiker | 3 million users |
| 02:09.27 | asciiker | some of them don't exist |
| 02:09.40 | asciiker | anymore..... |
| 02:09.55 | abrotman | would think the ISP would have a better way of getting valid mailboxes ? :) |
| 02:10.38 | asciiker | yes, so did I.... |
| 02:10.40 | abrotman | you can use tr, awk, cut .. #bash probably would have been a better place to ask |
| 02:10.47 | asciiker | thanks |
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| 02:10.59 | Devastator | if he is the ISP IT guy, i highly doubt it heh |
| 02:11.16 | *** join/#debian Milos|Netbook__ (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) |
| 02:11.34 | asciiker | I manage some external smtp servers, this is one of them |
| 02:11.43 | asciiker | not the whole network, just outgoing mail |
| 02:12.11 | abrotman | would think there'd be some LDAP-backed system to query |
| 02:12.44 | simonlnu | seriously |
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| 02:13.11 | simonlnu | ldap db -> record of users -> if not exist -> don't send |
| 02:14.08 | abrotman | or some flag that marks them as active |
| 02:14.12 | asciiker | simonlnu, I don't have access to the customers mail server network |
| 02:14.15 | simonlnu | yep |
| 02:14.27 | abrotman | asciiker: they should be providing you with a valid list .. oh well |
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| 02:14.37 | asciiker | I have one mail application on a debian server and a database with emails. its just a relay |
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| 02:14.51 | asciiker | hands pretty much tied |
| 02:15.54 | simonlnu | that's too bad for you. i can empathise. |
| 02:16.21 | simonlnu | so, scripting it is your only option.... |
| 02:16.23 | *** join/#debian SmashingX (~smashingx@unaffiliated/smashingx) |
| 02:16.25 | jagginess | thinks file locking in linux should be mandatory |
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| 02:17.03 | sney | jagginess: you mean locking executables when the program is running? that'd throw apt for a loop |
| 02:17.11 | SmashingX | I was wondering if there's a way to move all what I have installed in my harddrive with linux to another disk, since the SMART test says that failure in my hard drive is imminent |
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| 02:17.14 | simonlnu | asciiker: find a language that can handle email really well (like perl or python) and do it in that. |
| 02:18.16 | sney | SmashingX: back up files? rsync or tar. back up the whole disk? partimage or dd or ddrescue, depending on level of brokenness |
| 02:18.32 | simonlnu | asciiker: make it easier on youself. you're stuck dealing with a stupid situation, might as well do it with the right tools. |
| 02:18.46 | simonlnu | your* |
| 02:18.57 | knob | Guys, what do I need to run in order to update Debian? I'm running a small "plug computer"... so I would reckon a small installation is best? |
| 02:18.58 | SmashingX | sney: I would like to migrate my whole disk to another disk and throw this disk away |
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| 02:19.46 | ngc0202 | Hey, I have a Debian install on an external drive and I need to access it |
| 02:20.13 | ngc0202 | I thought I could with a Live CD, but that didn't seem to work... |
| 02:20.15 | *** join/#debian ShuttleworthFag (~Shuttlewo@115.239.249.12) |
| 02:20.23 | ShuttleworthFag | Snardbafulator and ##philosophy need to be fixed! |
| 02:20.25 | sney | SmashingX: then the second set of options. |
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| 02:20.29 | SmashingX | sney: what do you recommend in terms or easy to use and powerful so I don't miss anything |
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| 02:21.20 | simonlnu | !ops ShuttleworthFag needs dealing with |
| 02:21.21 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: simonlnu complains about: ShuttleworthFag needs dealing with |
| 02:21.39 | sney | SmashingX: I really like partimage but it might fail depending on your disk's condition, at that point you're stuck with ddrescue. I'd also advise you to put everything in /home in an archive on some other storage device just as a safeguard |
| 02:22.00 | simonlnu | thank you |
| 02:22.07 | dvs | O_O |
| 02:22.13 | dvs | stealth mode |
| 02:22.20 | simonlnu | indeed |
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| 02:22.41 | dvs | puts on his tin foil hat |
| 02:22.46 | simonlnu | hehe |
| 02:23.00 | simonlnu | that magnifies em fields ;) |
| 02:23.08 | peterS | jagginess: oh man, really? the fact that locking is so pervasive and mandatory is what bugs me the _most_ about the whole Windows platform. I can't count how many times I've tried to move, copy or delete files that really shouldn't have been in use, but I couldn't because for some reason Windows thought they were locked |
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| 02:23.55 | simonlnu | is with peterS on that "you see similar situations in mac os x too" |
| 02:24.16 | jagginess | anyone here knows if it's problematic to set mand on / ? |
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| 02:24.51 | ShuttleworthFag | Snardbafulator and ##philosophy need to be fixed! |
| 02:24.53 | ShuttleworthFag | Bietan jarrai! http://i.imgur.com/ZxrbX.jpg |
| 02:24.57 | ShuttleworthFag | Fucking snardbafulator |
| 02:25.05 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@177.68.179.50] by ChanServ |
| 02:25.31 | peterS | mandatory file locking is one of those things that might _seem_ like a good idea, but in practice it causes _so_ many headaches on Windows that I'm very glad it's mostly absent from Unix |
| 02:26.55 | *** mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ |
| 02:27.02 | *** part/#debian halvors (~halvors@ip-62-61-72-178.dialup.ice.net) |
| 02:27.02 | peterS | well, that plus the related concept in Unix where a file is really an inode with one or more filenames attached to it. This means you can rename or delete files that are in use, with no problem. That sort of thing seems to be difficult or impossible in Windows, even if the app didn't happen to lock the file, which they usually do. |
| 02:27.21 | jagginess | peterS, ya.. but it's actually an option with "mount" :).. so that's why i'm asking.. |
| 02:27.31 | *** mode/#debian [+b ShuttleworthFag!*@*] by abrotman |
| 02:27.33 | abrotman | maybe? |
| 02:27.37 | *** mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman |
| 02:27.48 | peterS | jagginess: so you're not asking because you actually want it? just because it's there? |
| 02:28.32 | jagginess | peterS, it's a samba thing vs a local unix process.. i guess i can avoid / if you think it's dangerous.. and maybe just set a separate partition to try mand with it |
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| 02:29.16 | SmashingX | sney: Partimage does not support ext4 or btrfs filesystems. |
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| 02:29.35 | peterS | anyway, I can't tell you whether it causes specific problems to enable mandatory locking on the root filesystem in Debian. It's something I would never want to try. As I said, it's one of the things I find really annoying about Windows |
| 02:30.17 | peterS | I don't know if it'd be dangerous per se. I really have no idea. it's just, why give yourself the headaches that come with it? |
| 02:31.02 | peterS | also, I'm not sure what the mandatory locking mount option even does. It may be less offensive than Windows file locking, after all. |
| 02:32.28 | jagginess | peterS, well there is a warning at the end of this page http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/mandatory-locking.txt -- i think i'll just make a separate data partition just to be safe.. |
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| 02:33.07 | jagginess | peterS, it seems to problematic to fully implement, that's why i think flocking is set to advisory as the default |
| 02:33.34 | sney | SmashingX: oh, darn. well... dd then |
| 02:34.08 | SmashingX | sney: I didn't remember I had ext3 |
| 02:34.19 | SmashingX | sney: so I will give it a try |
| 02:34.40 | SmashingX | sney, but what are the steps? create an image, and then? |
| 02:34.47 | ngc0202 | Can I get some help for GRUB? I'm not getting a reply in #grub |
| 02:35.41 | un214 | my answer to grub was apt-get install lilo |
| 02:35.43 | superstraw | that's cuz it's #grub as in the meaty insects Bear Gryles loves to eat. |
| 02:36.00 | superstraw | what's up with yer grub? |
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| 02:36.11 | peterS | jagginess: remind me again why you are interested in mandatory locking at all? you miss those "you have to reboot your computer before Windows Update can finish" dialogs? |
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| 02:36.48 | jagginess | peterS, not fully interested, i seemed a bit pulled into this, in case i forget all about flocking (it's a samba flocking vs unix process thing) |
| 02:36.52 | ngc0202 | superstraw: I keep getting "format of install_device not recognized" |
| 02:37.27 | jagginess | peterS, if i run vi on a shared file i forget is being shared by a samba client (running vi on the samba server), vi still writes to the file |
| 02:37.52 | jagginess | peterS, if I forget that flocking isnt effective from the serverpoint, i worry i can end up into problems.. |
| 02:38.04 | simonlnu | that's samba not noticing it being accessed, i'd say |
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| 02:38.30 | jagginess | i spoke with folks in #samba.. lsof and smbstatus shows its gets a lock.. |
| 02:38.47 | peterS | no, samba propagates locks from the cifs client. but if vi doesn't _also_ lock the file when it opens it (which it does not), then yes, you can edit a file that someone also has open on a cifs client |
| 02:39.40 | peterS | ever wonder why vi doesn't lock the file? probably because the vi authors think a lot like I do, that locking mostly causes headaches (: |
| 02:40.08 | jagginess | yes, but the mand option, i dont think it's vi that checks this.. |
| 02:40.17 | jagginess | more so for the kernel to do with flock checking... |
| 02:40.26 | jagginess | (according to what i'm reading) |
| 02:41.12 | ngc0202 | :( |
| 02:41.20 | ngc0202 | Why won't grub work.... |
| 02:41.21 | jagginess | however mcedit acts a bit differenlty and takes not of a file being locked (but it doesnt block a samba client from write access, even if mcedit opens the textfile first) |
| 02:41.29 | jagginess | ,/note of/ |
| 02:42.26 | jagginess | what one can always do of course, is to force himself at the server to work off a //localhost .. that way going through the samba server as well.. |
| 02:42.34 | peterS | jagginess: it looks as though the 'mand' mount option is pretty harmless, as the only files it will actually affect are ones you have explicitly chmod'd to g+s,g-x |
| 02:42.57 | peterS | so it will only affect files you explicitly tell it to allow mandatory locking on. Or so it appears to me. |
| 02:43.00 | jagginess | i can always connect locally if this mand option thing turns too problematic.. |
| 02:43.07 | sney | SmashingX: partimage is pretty well documented online. you'll have better results following their manual than my memory |
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| 02:43.36 | SmashingX | sney, I wonder what happens with grub when Im done copying all the files |
| 02:43.59 | sney | grub is on the disk too |
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| 02:44.08 | peterS | anybody here use mtink? (an inkjet printer utility in debian.) hope I didn't break it just now, with a quick upload to fix a FTBFS that I caused earlier |
| 02:44.13 | sney | once you write the image to your new drive it should Just Work(tm) |
| 02:44.42 | abrotman | eyes peterS |
| 02:45.18 | jagginess | proposes zink for everybody |
| 02:45.28 | pparadis | proposes to abrotman |
| 02:45.30 | jagginess | zink is the future baby |
| 02:46.06 | ngc0202 | I really need to get grub working... |
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| 02:46.08 | peterS | abrotman: what? I can't test it, I don't have an epson or similar inkjet printer. from what I could tell, my upload was fine.... |
| 02:46.38 | abrotman | i don't even have a printer :) |
| 02:47.06 | dvs | I do. His name is Juan. |
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| 02:47.15 | peterS | I have a laserjet 5 but it quit working, saying the fan motor needs replaced. of all the nerve. those old laserjets are supposed to be indestructible. |
| 02:47.59 | abrotman | you mean the 2' tall kind of LJ5 ? |
| 02:48.20 | peterS | no, the older kind that looks a lot like a LJ4 |
| 02:48.28 | SmashingX | sney: Do you think putting the whole filesystem in a tar file and then uncompressing that into the new drive would do the trick as well? |
| 02:48.29 | abrotman | ah okay |
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| 02:49.16 | peterS | I was actually trying to buy a LJ4 but this LJ5 was what came up on ebay, and it looked similar enough, I figured it'd be fine. (And for years, it was.) |
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| 02:50.04 | abrotman | it's probably 15 years old .. give it some credit :) |
| 02:50.37 | peterS | indeed. I even bought a jetdirect card so I could situate it on the end of an ethernet cable across the room |
| 02:50.41 | dvs | My LJ1300 is at least 8 years old |
| 02:50.50 | sney | SmashingX: tar is a more standard backup solution for data drives, OS drives are a little more complex so making an image is smarter |
| 02:51.22 | emss | sney ? |
| 02:51.24 | sney | SmashingX: you should absolutely tar up your home directory as well as anything else that's important to you in case the imaging process fails |
| 02:51.49 | sney | emss: can I help you with something |
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| 02:52.06 | jagginess | wonders if google tar tars for future use |
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| 02:52.20 | emss | sney yes, how are os drives a little more complex? |
| 02:52.27 | emss | ) |
| 02:52.30 | emss | :) |
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| 02:52.50 | jagginess | emss, i think he's talking about HAL in the odyssey |
| 02:52.56 | peterS | emss: not OS drives per se, but the boot sector in particular. you need to be able to restore the ability to boot the thing. |
| 02:53.28 | sney | plus not having to tell tar to ignore stuff like /dev and /proc |
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| 02:53.43 | anomaly | what would be the best option for encrypting a folder at an office computer, that I can sshfs mount at home? this is a commandline only box, so xorg solutions would not be valid. |
| 02:53.54 | nezZario | so is wheezy considered stable? |
| 02:53.55 | nsadmin | I installed roundcube (with the postgres module), I'm looking at its db config file which says "don't modify me, use dpkg-reconfigure roundcube to configure db" and when I do that nothing happens... what's going on? |
| 02:53.58 | nezZario | i'm confused :) |
| 02:54.03 | peterS | sney: well yeah but that comes for free with --one-file-system |
| 02:54.04 | jagginess | puts anti-tarrers into full filesystem tarballs |
| 02:54.25 | abrotman | nsadmin: -plow ? |
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| 02:54.34 | abrotman | nezZario: no |
| 02:54.37 | nsadmin | thanks, I'll try that |
| 02:54.48 | abrotman | nezZario: wheezy is frozen, it will be released as stable when there are no more RC bugs |
| 02:54.49 | peterS | sney: or, alternatively, 'mount --bind / /mnt; tar -C /mnt -c ...' |
| 02:54.51 | sney | nezZario: wheezy is considered frozen |
| 02:54.58 | abrotman | considered? |
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| 02:55.08 | nsadmin | nope, -plowing doesn't work |
| 02:55.21 | sney | nezZario: it's pretty solid for daily use though IMHO. |
| 02:55.23 | nsadmin | that is, still no output or asking questions or stuff |
| 02:55.45 | peterS | nsadmin: the usual cause of these things is that they got the package name wrong in the help text, the config is actually accomplished by reconfiguring some other auxilliary package |
| 02:55.56 | abrotman | nsadmin: you may have to reconfigure one of the dependencies .. like a roundcube-pgsql if such a thing exists |
| 02:56.07 | nsadmin | it does |
| 02:56.14 | abrotman | judd: depends roundcube --release squeeze |
| 02:56.15 | judd | Package roundcube in squeeze/i386 -- depends: roundcube-core (= 0.3.1-6). |
| 02:56.18 | abrotman | ... |
| 02:56.23 | abrotman | you get the idea |
| 02:56.29 | nsadmin | yes I do |
| 02:56.41 | nsadmin | I'll try plowing the pg module |
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| 02:57.21 | peterS | dpkg-reconfigure should accept -plough if the locale is en_GB |
| 02:58.29 | abrotman | he made a funny |
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| 02:58.57 | abrotman | peterS: double dog dare you to file a wishlist bug? :) |
| 02:59.17 | peterS | abrotman: I couldn't do that to the dpkg maintainers. they have been drowning in bugs since the beginning of time |
| 02:59.28 | abrotman | peterS: but it might be good for a laugh |
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| 03:16.26 | nsadmin | ok, so I dpkg-reconfigure on roundcube-core, and that did do stuff... still isn't connecting and postgres logs don't seem to see the connections on the log I'm looking at |
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| 03:16.59 | lcc | where are linux firmware files located? |
| 03:17.14 | lcc | /usr/local/lib/firmware or is there another location? |
| 03:17.16 | nsadmin | firmware-linux-* packages |
| 03:17.30 | *** part/#debian squidly (~squidly@HoodLUG/member/squidly) |
| 03:17.43 | nsadmin | debian packages don't touch /usr/local |
| 03:18.00 | lcc | nsadmin: http://wiki.debian.org/carl9170#Installation |
| 03:18.10 | lcc | I did squeeze backports and installed a new kernel. |
| 03:18.22 | nsadmin | what are you showing me and for what reason? |
| 03:18.23 | lcc | I also installed firmware-linux-free |
| 03:18.29 | sney | debian packages typically install firmware to /lib/firmware |
| 03:18.31 | lcc | I am trying to get my wifi to work. |
| 03:19.09 | peterS | lcc: firmware generally gets installed to /lib/firmware |
| 03:19.16 | nsadmin | oh, try this: you say you installed firmware-linux-free/ you can list its content by running dpkg -L firmware-linux-free |
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| 03:20.35 | nsadmin | which will tell you where that package places every file when installed |
| 03:20.45 | lcc | cool I'll check it out |
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| 03:21.05 | lcc | I got it to work before, and some reason it's not working on this new install. |
| 03:21.10 | nsadmin | lcc, that's what you're asking for in this moment? |
| 03:21.40 | nsadmin | want to go thru the hardware part? |
| 03:21.51 | lcc | nsadmin: where I should install the firmware. carl9170 doesn't have a debian package yet that I know of. Also, could installing firmware-linux-free have messed things up? |
| 03:22.20 | lcc | nsadmin: yeah |
| 03:22.22 | nsadmin | no, shouldn't have messed things up |
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| 03:23.00 | nsadmin | ok, could you show me the line of lspci -nn that shows your wireless? |
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| 03:23.24 | sney | that wiki page implied it was a usb device, I think |
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| 03:23.50 | lcc | sney: yeah, it's usb. nsadmin: it's not showing up |
| 03:24.03 | nsadmin | oh, damn,,, I had a dongle once, it just worked |
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| 03:24.25 | nsadmin | what I wanted to do was figure out the driver |
| 03:24.33 | nsadmin | dunno how on usb |
| 03:25.13 | lcc | it's plugged in and the light is on continuously |
| 03:25.31 | nsadmin | are you root right now? |
| 03:25.37 | lcc | nsadmin: ? |
| 03:25.46 | sneex | wow, a lot of channels are invite only >< Guess I will be even less often :) |
| 03:25.48 | nsadmin | whoami says root? |
| 03:25.59 | sneex | who am i ??? |
| 03:26.03 | lcc | nsadmin: why do you ask? |
| 03:26.12 | lcc | I can install things if I want to. |
| 03:26.20 | lcc | as root |
| 03:26.24 | sneex | whoami and who am i give same results? |
| 03:26.30 | lcc | I'm installing on a new box. |
| 03:26.36 | nsadmin | dunno |
| 03:26.48 | nsadmin | ok, try this: look at ifconfig -a |
| 03:26.58 | nsadmin | you'll see paragraphs and labels |
| 03:27.06 | nsadmin | would like to see all the labels |
| 03:28.35 | lcc | http://pastebin.com/KG8WqK9J |
| 03:29.18 | lcc | nsadmin: ^ |
| 03:29.43 | nsadmin | ok, so the driver isn't inserted or installed right now |
| 03:30.03 | nsadmin | would be a good thing to know which driver it is |
| 03:30.17 | lcc | nsadmin: uname -r shows 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 03:30.53 | lcc | the driver I think is carl9170 right? |
| 03:31.11 | peterS | wow, /usr/share/wireshark/manuf doesn't know about the MAC address prefix on 'pan0' there - 72:a0:83 |
| 03:31.16 | peterS | that doesn't happen often |
| 03:31.33 | nsadmin | could be. see if modprobe carl9170 works |
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| 03:32.30 | lcc | nsadmin: the command worked, but my wireless still doesn't |
| 03:32.39 | nsadmin | then run ifconfig -a again |
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| 03:33.01 | peterS | 'modinfo carl9170' shows the interesting line 'firmware: carl9170-1.fw' |
| 03:33.04 | tir | I need to move files from linux to windows and back to linux. Is there a way to preserve permissions of files when moving them from linux to windows ? Or some way to just capture the permissions information so when I move it back to linux, i have them ? |
| 03:33.10 | peterS | do you have a /lib/firmware/carl9170-1.fw file? |
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| 03:33.58 | lcc | peterS: I figured it out. yes I do, but it's an empty file for some reason. |
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| 03:34.10 | lcc | let me re-wget it. |
| 03:34.22 | nsadmin | lcc, count the paragraphs in ifconfig -a (before there were three) |
| 03:34.44 | peterS | I would also probably 'dmesg | grep -2 request_firmware' to see if it tried to load it |
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| 03:35.40 | tir | I need to move files from linux to windows and back to linux. Is there a way to preserve permissions of files when moving them from linux to windows ? Or some way to just capture the permissions information so when I move it back to linux, i have them ? |
| 03:35.52 | nezZario | tir: getfacl / setfacl |
| 03:36.00 | nezZario | you can get the pkg apt-get install acl |
| 03:36.11 | peterS | I don't think that's what he's asking for |
| 03:36.17 | blackshirt | tir, i don't sure exactly |
| 03:36.21 | nezZario | i think it's exactly |
| 03:36.31 | peterS | tir: the simple solution is to create a tar file, move the tar file around, then unpack it |
| 03:36.32 | lcc | Yay I got it to work, I just had to re-wget it. It was a blank file. |
| 03:36.38 | nezZario | it will do more than ACL lists -- it also does traditional rwxrwxrwx |
| 03:36.44 | peterS | well, "simple" in that you can't use the files in the meantime |
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| 03:36.54 | tir | peterS: i have to update and owrk on the files in windows |
| 03:37.08 | nsadmin | lcc, cool :) so you would have four paragraphs in ifconfig -a? |
| 03:37.10 | nezZario | tir, getfacl -R > /my/permission.dump |
| 03:37.42 | tir | nezZario: great, so i save permissions.dump (which will have for every file and subdirectory under current directory) and then can reapply later, correct ? |
| 03:37.59 | nezZario | yes with setfacl - i can't remember how to do use setfacl off the top of my head |
| 03:38.02 | nezZario | i use them for backups |
| 03:38.11 | nezZario | so i have an 'extra' snapshot of permissions |
| 03:38.26 | nezZario | but the man page will explain all |
| 03:38.36 | nezZario | iirc it *might* also keep symlinks |
| 03:38.38 | blackshirt | i don't think that will preserved on windows file system |
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| 03:39.13 | tir | nezZario: keep symlinks as in ? when I copy to windows I think i will loose them alread ycorrect ? |
| 03:39.17 | tir | yes |
| 03:39.22 | nezZario | yes you'll loost them on windows |
| 03:39.24 | tir | anyway i don't have any symlinks |
| 03:39.26 | lcc_ | Got it to work, I just had to re-wget the file. it was a blank file. thanks for the help. |
| 03:39.40 | nezZario | but when you re-import permissions on linux with setfacl, it /should/ restore them |
| 03:39.48 | nezZario | i had a prblem with rsync not preserving symlinks |
| 03:39.55 | nezZario | which iirc is another reason |
| 03:40.08 | tir | nezZario: ok |
| 03:40.18 | blackshirt | i don't think so |
| 03:40.31 | nezZario | getfacl -R / | gzip -c - > permissions.dump is enough to get you started |
| 03:40.33 | tir | nezZario: i assume the dump only has info based on filenames,and doenst care about file sizes, because they will change |
| 03:40.44 | nezZario | yeah doesn't care about filesizes, just absolute paths |
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| 03:40.51 | tir | nezZario: ok |
| 03:41.14 | tir | what does it do exactly wtih symlinks (I am manually following them and coopy ing to window presenlty) |
| 03:41.26 | nsadmin | is suspicious of any -R |
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| 03:41.49 | nezZario | *iirc* it will restore them - but check man page - i'm not 100% on that |
| 03:41.57 | nezZario | i know it has an entry for symlinks in the dump file |
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| 03:42.05 | nezZario | you'll need some fairly specific switches to setfacl since it's not it's primary purpose -- make sure you can backup/restore before "loosing" them permanently |
| 03:42.12 | nezZario | once again, check the man page, it's not a long read |
| 03:42.13 | tir | ok, so when you say it will restore, you mean it will preserve as symblink and not traverse it ? |
| 03:42.24 | tir | ok, i am going to see it |
| 03:42.28 | nezZario | just check the manpage, i don't want to give you incorrect info |
| 03:43.08 | nezZario | btw, have you considered samba/network shares? |
| 03:43.22 | nezZario | i'm assuming it's not a practical solution and that you've considered it -- but if not, now is the time |
| 03:44.20 | nezZario | there is also mtree if facl isn't available but it's not in debian packages iirc |
| 03:44.43 | nezZario | i use it on openbsd/netbsd machines that don't have getfacl/setfacl for permission dumps |
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| 04:26.32 | xayon | Hi there. I've seen that usplash and splashy are out of repos. Any way to get a splash image? |
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| 04:27.30 | BlitzHere | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:28.28 | BlitzHere | Can anyone help? Thanks! |
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| 04:30.08 | xayon | Oh, plymouth... |
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| 04:32.05 | Snardsexmaniac | Oh Snardbafulator! |
| 04:32.10 | Snardsexmaniac | Fuck you and ##philosophy |
| 04:32.24 | Snardsexmaniac | I want to fucking shove chloroform into your face and then work my magic on you |
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| 04:32.29 | Snardsexmaniac | you will be bent over |
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| 04:44.18 | iceisfun | has anyone ever seen a error like this? /dev/sdb1 is apparently in use by the system; will not make a filesystem here! |
| 04:44.38 | iceisfun | I looked on google and someone said to mdadm --zero-superblock /dev/sdb1 but that also fails |
| 04:45.18 | iceisfun | also I can write data to the disk with dd using something like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=1M count=1000 |
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| 05:13.37 | cads | hey all |
| 05:15.16 | oneand0 | iceisfun: that error reads like /dev/sdb1 is mounted.... or seems to be somehow |
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| 05:15.22 | cads | God help me, but I'd like to upgrade a debian i686 system to amd64 |
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| 05:16.02 | cads | Is this an extremely hare-brained task? |
| 05:16.17 | oneand0 | cads: Im not entirely sure that is even possible ? :) at least no straight forward way |
| 05:16.49 | cads | I find this guide http://tinyurl.com/74nrlux |
| 05:17.28 | cads | which seems to recommend a level of aptitude I don't quite have |
| 05:18.01 | cads | The main issue is all the painstaking configuration I've put into my boxen. |
| 05:18.36 | oneand0 | cads: like I said, no straight forward way, there will be trial and error, its possible..but will be a bit of a learning curve |
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| 05:19.03 | oneand0 | that link seems to be documented farily well though |
| 05:19.27 | cads | ah, I can upgrade my kernel to 64 bit |
| 05:19.42 | cads | oneand0, yeah, he makes an excellent suggestion with cfengine |
| 05:19.57 | cads | I might have to start using something like it |
| 05:20.06 | oneand0 | all the best |
| 05:21.17 | cads | Hah, I'm very skeptical of doing it if it's not a well beaten path |
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| 06:20.29 | BlitzHere | Hi, I'm using xfce with the xdm display manager. I don't have the shutdown option enabled in my regular user account. How do I enable it? |
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| 06:21.13 | oneand0 | BlitzHere: afaik, I think you need to use gdm to get the shutdown option |
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| 06:22.20 | BlitzHere | oneand0: There is no way to get that as a normal user with xdm? I remember reading about it somewhere but I can't find it again... |
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| 06:24.18 | oneand0 | BlitzHere: hmm, maybe something to do with ck-session ? unsure myself, google it |
| 06:27.28 | Androiddawg | anybody have an idea why i cant access the ##linux channel? |
| 06:27.49 | Androiddawg | "cannot send to channel" |
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| 06:30.31 | Androiddawg | anybody have some experience with snmpv3? |
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| 06:31.31 | Androiddawg | i cant find any descent tutorials that deal with mibs and getting it set up with prtg for example |
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| 06:53.01 | newbie|4 | hi guys how can I reinstall grub2 from a live cd. It got screwed |
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| 06:59.49 | BlitzHere | Okay, google is not helping. Still no shutdown adn restart buttons in Xfce. I am reading that xdm might be the problem. I am going to try lightDM. Does anyone know if that requires any configuration? |
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| 07:09.06 | BlitzHere | In the lightdm configuration file, there is this line --> autologin-session |
| 07:09.18 | BlitzHere | What do I put there for it to default to xfce4 |
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| 07:17.01 | BlitzHere | Well ,I might have figured it out. A restart would solve that question. brb |
| 07:17.39 | blast_hardcheese | Getting a bit frustrated with dkms and virtualbox; I've been trying out running my own kernels for the past couple of weeks, (started when I needed a newer kernel than was available due to hardware support) |
| 07:18.09 | blast_hardcheese | unfortunately I'm having issues figuring out how to properly install the kernel headers so they're found by virtualbox-dkms |
| 07:18.15 | blast_hardcheese | Any tips would be greatly appreciated |
| 07:18.50 | blast_hardcheese | I've tried `make headers_install INSTALL_HDR_PATH=/usr/src/linux-headers-$(uname -r)' so far, trying to put them in a similar structure as packaged kernel headers |
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| 07:19.19 | blast_hardcheese | but I'm still getting "Module build for the currently running kernel was skipped since the kernel source for this kernel does not seem to be installed." |
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| 07:22.30 | blast_hardcheese | ack. Realized I hadn't read the manual for dkms, it said to check "/lib/modules/$kernel_version/build", turns out it was a stale symlink. |
| 07:22.39 | blast_hardcheese | everything's working fine now |
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| 07:28.43 | szkol1 | how to configure wifi network with password, without GUI ? |
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| 07:28.47 | szkol1 | in text mode.. |
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| 07:30.04 | szkol1 | guys? |
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| 07:30.39 | ketsa | Hi all, I have a problem on my netbook, after installing/compiling kernel3.2 : currently set as 800x600 when native resolution is probably sthg like 900x600 or 1024x600 and i cant find how to set it properly. any ideas ? |
| 07:31.17 | szkol1 | ketsa: try program grandr to configure display for example. if it is driver problem then try newer kernel maybe from backports |
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| 07:37.13 | ketsa | szkol1: Thanks, unfortunately grandr only shows 800x600. Its probably a kernel issue since even console is wrong resolution, I just cant find where the option is hidden. |
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| 07:37.54 | szkol1 | ketsa: try maybe #xorg or forums and mainling lists, or googing for your card model (lcpci shows you) |
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| 07:40.13 | ketsa | "Intel Corporation N10 Family Integrated Graphics Controller" i'll have a look, its not an xorg problem though. thanks. |
| 07:41.07 | Mikoman | need help here. Im trying to set up a network bridge. I create bridge, add interfaces but when i bring the bridge up it won't bring up the required interfaces. I can see that because the network card led does not go on. What can this be? If i bring up the single interface it works and the led is on... |
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| 07:44.07 | blast_hardcheese | Mikoman: Don't you have to bring the interface up before adding it to the bridge anyway? |
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| 07:45.34 | Mikoman | blast_hardcheese: as far as i know the interface have to be down so it can added to the bridge. Or am i wrong? |
| 07:46.40 | thewanderer1 | Mikoman: after you've added the interfaces: ip link set up dev eth* -- you need to bring up the phy's |
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| 07:47.53 | blast_hardcheese | Mikoman: You don't need to bring interfaces down to add them to the bridge in my experience |
| 07:48.02 | blast_hardcheese | just brctl addif brX ethX |
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| 07:50.34 | Mikoman | thewanderer1: ok so create bridge, add if's and the bring up bridge and also the interfaces? |
| 07:50.42 | Mikoman | then> |
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| 07:51.39 | thewanderer1 | Mikoman: yes - also remember to only put an IP address on the bridge, not on the individual interfaces |
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| 07:53.52 | thewanderer1 | Mikoman: here's an /etc/network/interfaces snippet for persistent configurations: http://paste.debian.net/180697/ |
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| 07:54.47 | Mikoman | thewanderer1: ok thanks. gonna try that. I'll be back :P |
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| 07:55.53 | xgl | hi all |
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| 07:59.50 | szkol1 | how to bring ws suplicant package on usb key to non-network laptop |
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| 08:23.17 | tvm | szkol1: download, copy it over, and use dpkg -i to install it ? |
| 08:23.35 | szkol1 | tvm: and who checks checksum? |
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| 08:32.44 | BotaniCar|2 | What virtualizator would you recomend for virtualising windows under debian(6) host ? |
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| 08:33.22 | Mephisto | VirtualBox |
| 08:33.54 | Mephisto | it's the best user-friendly thing i ever saw... |
| 08:33.56 | BotaniCar|2 | KVM/XEN dont handle windows well, or is there a nother reason ? |
| 08:34.12 | Mephisto | i use XP on vbox, it's always perfect. I do all i need |
| 08:34.15 | BotaniCar|2 | userfrendliness is not a issue, resource usage/host integration is prio |
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| 08:34.29 | Mephisto | you can even try running games on it those that don't work on Wine :) |
| 08:34.40 | BotaniCar|2 | it's a work pc :) |
| 08:34.43 | Mephisto | sometimes it's quite a success |
| 08:34.47 | Mephisto | yeah, right.. just saying ;) |
| 08:34.54 | tvm | szonek: use apt-get --download-only and md5sum ? |
| 08:35.03 | Mephisto | well.. i dunno, vbox works just fine, no errors for me at least. |
| 08:35.14 | b0lt | kvm/qemu works perfectly for windows |
| 08:35.23 | Mephisto | qemu... |
| 08:35.24 | BotaniCar|2 | ok, thank you both |
| 08:35.26 | Mephisto | i heard it's good too |
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| 08:35.31 | Mephisto | but never used it |
| 08:35.34 | tvm | szonek: and debsums after installation, if you want to check that everything went alright |
| 08:35.40 | b0lt | and then you can use kvm for your linux machines too, which is awesome |
| 08:35.51 | tvm | err, szonek/szkol1/ |
| 08:35.57 | Mephisto | i know why some people dislike vbox, cause it's oracle ;) |
| 08:35.59 | b0lt | vmware virtual machine startup time: 2 minutes. kvm: 10 seconds. |
| 08:36.01 | b0lt | is happy |
| 08:36.17 | b0lt | paravirtualization is awesome |
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| 08:36.47 | Mephisto | 2 minutes??? |
| 08:37.00 | Mephisto | lemme check how fast windows starts on my vbox... |
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| 08:37.08 | b0lt | with 14 machines starting at once... |
| 08:37.09 | b0lt | yep |
| 08:37.29 | Mephisto | hm |
| 08:37.30 | Mephisto | 15 |
| 08:37.32 | Mephisto | 15 secs |
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| 08:47.51 | BlitzHere | Hi, the software updates app doesn't work for me. The password request screen keeps saying I am giving the incorrct password. Can anyone help? thanks |
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| 08:48.47 | BlitzHere | There are two types of prompts I get for passwords. One has the option for the keyring and the other doesn't. The prompt without the keyring works just fine |
| 08:49.04 | BlitzHere | It's only the prompt with the keyring that doesn't work |
| 08:49.46 | \Jan | it probably is asking for your root password |
| 08:50.15 | BlitzHere | \Jan I didn't use a root password |
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| 08:50.44 | BlitzHere | So, my user can use sudo with the user password |
| 08:51.08 | \Jan | you always sudo with the user password; that's sudo's default. |
| 08:51.35 | \Jan | not having a root password is just a ... security issue |
| 08:52.03 | aBound | Security hole. :P |
| 08:52.31 | BlitzHere | \Jan: Root login is disabled...When I installed with root login enabled, the user couldn't sudo as the user wasn't in the sudoers file... |
| 08:52.58 | BlitzHere | abound: Root login is disabled. Also, I have autologin enabled. So, yes, my computer is a leaky ship |
| 08:53.13 | BlitzHere | Problem is, I have to set it up to be easy to use for a noob |
| 08:53.32 | BlitzHere | And I can't explain what root is... |
| 08:53.38 | aBound | I was just referring to \Jan for reminding me that I need to slip a passwd for root. :) |
| 08:54.42 | aBound | I don't know the whole conversation between you two. :P |
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| 08:55.19 | aBound | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_user |
| 08:55.33 | BlitzHere | Anyway, I'm trying to get th esoftware update to work. I want it to be possible for the user to update software using GUI without an aptitude safe-upgrade |
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| 08:56.24 | aBound | A root account is just a superuser account that gives the user a higher privilege to modify anything on the system. Without limiting access. :) |
| 08:56.38 | BlitzHere | aBound: Thanks, but I'm trying to set the computer up for a person who doesn't understand root or superuser or administrator |
| 08:57.12 | BlitzHere | aBound: What they do know is, "when it asks for password, enter password" |
| 08:57.16 | aBound | Understood. |
| 08:57.22 | user485763 | greetings, i'd like to add debian's unstable and experimental repositories, but can't get around an error: |
| 08:57.24 | user485763 | Dynamic MMap ran out of room. Please increase the size of APT::Cache-Limit |
| 08:57.30 | user485763 | i've tried increasing it in two places: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70debconf and /etc/atp/apt.conf |
| 08:57.51 | aBound | BlitzHere, Figures for basic usage I doubt they need to know much about the root account unless they need to make major changes. |
| 08:58.02 | user485763 | but no luck. any thoughts? |
| 08:58.13 | aBound | Perhaps, if they're using it as a server then yes I'd figure they need to know more about the root account. |
| 08:58.37 | *** join/#debian firztspawn (~Unknown@unaffiliated/firztspawn) |
| 08:58.50 | aBound | Seeing as Debian and Ubuntu may slightly differ. |
| 08:59.11 | BlitzHere | aBound: I'm just reviving an old desktop |
| 08:59.35 | aBound | BlitzHere, Only using it as a desktop for the person? |
| 08:59.41 | *** join/#debian czl (~czl@c-24-6-158-57.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:59.55 | BlitzHere | aBound: Yes, I won't be around to fix things |
| 09:00.10 | *** join/#debian l0p3n_ (~scrilla@h203n6-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 09:00.31 | BlitzHere | aBound: Exactly, I do have gksu installed. And I can use sudo in the terminal |
| 09:00.50 | aBound | BlitzHere, I'd figure why not install Ubuntu on top of the old desktop? |
| 09:00.54 | aBound | Or Lubuntu. |
| 09:01.23 | aBound | Lubuntu (pronounced /luːˈbuːntuː/ "loo-BOON-too") is a lightweight Linux operating system based on Ubuntu but using the LXDE desktop environment. |
| 09:01.40 | thewanderer1 | BlitzHere: not all front-ends understand sudo - some just use 'su' and have this hard-coded |
| 09:02.10 | BlitzHere | thewanderer1: ...I can't su in terminal either |
| 09:02.22 | BlitzHere | thewanderer1: authentication failure |
| 09:02.37 | BlitzHere | aBound: Tried both lubuntu and xubuntu |
| 09:02.40 | BlitzHere | aBound: Tried both lubuntu and xubuntu |
| 09:02.46 | *** join/#debian v116v (~v116v@81.202.117.203.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 09:03.28 | aBound | BlitzHere, Have you tried typing: sudo passwd root |
| 09:03.32 | aBound | Inside the terminal. |
| 09:04.01 | aBound | I'm guessing neither of those worked. |
| 09:04.27 | BlitzHere | aBound: Lubuntu doesn't seem polished enough -- it wasn't liked. And Xubuntu was too bloaty |
| 09:04.38 | aBound | BlitzHere, How about Linux Mint the one based on Debian uses a rolling release. |
| 09:04.52 | user485763 | problem solved. LMDE users need to create and set the value in /etc/apt/apt.conf |
| 09:05.31 | aBound | Can't LMDE be customized? Never used it before. |
| 09:05.59 | aBound | http://linuxmint.com/ They also have a Xfce desktop. |
| 09:06.04 | BlitzHere | abound: Well, I did a debian minimal install and tailored the system to have just the packages that the computer's eventual user will need |
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| 09:06.14 | Debolaz | feels mint has certain lacks. |
| 09:06.24 | BlitzHere | aBound: And thanks, I just had to update the root password :P |
| 09:06.27 | *** join/#debian penrod (~chatzilla@S010600b0d0d18669.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 09:06.28 | Jayrays | I was using LMDE until I decided debian edition debian was better for me :P |
| 09:06.38 | aBound | BlitzHere, Hehe just throwing out suggestions as it might be easier to configure the other distros then with Debian. |
| 09:06.55 | aBound | BlitzHere, Welcome. |
| 09:07.12 | aBound | I tried the Cinnamon GUI and it felt just like using Windows again. |
| 09:08.03 | BotaniCar|2 | i bought a pc with onboard GPU. Is it ok to do initial setup and later add a nother gpu(nvidia). Can both GPU work at same time and serve monitors ? |
| 09:08.57 | aBound | I know Ubuntu can use multiple monitors I can't comment much on Debian. |
| 09:09.09 | BlitzHere | aBound: Yeah, one of the main reason's for switching was that WinXP was getting SLOW and annoying, I tried about 10 distros before settling on Debian. And anything that is "easy to configure" is bloaty. Figured I'd do a minimal and just get only the required packages. Debian is blazing fast at the moment, which is more than what I can say for Xubuntu... |
| 09:09.49 | Debolaz | The problem isn't so much that many dists are not easy to configure, but that their defaults are dumb so you have to do configuration in the first place. |
| 09:09.49 | aBound | BlitzHere, There are alternative ISO's for Ubuntu and it's other children. :) |
| 09:09.57 | aBound | For a more customized install. |
| 09:10.11 | aBound | But they do use text installs instead of a gui install. |
| 09:10.46 | *** join/#debian berserkr (~david@212.122.105.187.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 09:10.59 | BlitzHere | aBound: Yeah, and that alternative ISO installer doesn't detect my ethernet card, even though it uses debian's installer :P |
| 09:11.00 | BotaniCar|2 | aBound: can ubuntu server them from both GPU outputs at same time (more than 2 monitors) ? |
| 09:11.32 | aBound | Some distributions have different goals and different philosophies. But overall there's really not much difference as they all use the Linux kernel. Some have different package managers, some have updated kernels and some contain specific software. |
| 09:11.49 | *** join/#debian flype (~flype@90.161.233.142) |
| 09:12.31 | aBound | Debian is stable due to the packaging scheme it uses whereas Ubuntu Non-LTS releases are based on Debian unstable whereas Ubuntu LTS releases are more based on Debian testing packaging scheme. |
| 09:12.38 | Debolaz | Personally, vanilla Ubuntu remains my favorite dist on the desktop. But not having systemd now that I've tried it makes me frustrated, I'll admit that. :) |
| 09:13.12 | aBound | BotaniCar|2, Never tried Ubuntu server before. |
| 09:13.24 | BlitzHere | aBound: And I definitely needed some very recent packages - for example nvidia 173xx drivers were broken till very recently. Prefer no to do manual installs. Debian testing > Ubuntu/derivatives 12.04 |
| 09:13.33 | BotaniCar|2 | aBound: i ment 'can ubuntu serve' :) |
| 09:13.48 | *** join/#debian tPl0ch (~profipimp@HSI-KBW-046-005-085-118.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 09:13.52 | aBound | BotaniCar|2, My suggestion is to try the Ubuntuforums and ask the community as they're more experienced in that area. |
| 09:14.10 | aBound | BotaniCar|2, Or the Ubuntu channel on IRC. |
| 09:14.11 | aBound | :P |
| 09:14.28 | BotaniCar|2 | already did, i came here to ask for debian, but only got your answer, so i'm bugging :) |
| 09:14.39 | aBound | haha |
| 09:14.55 | *** join/#debian freezer (~mkramer@i59F7B546.versanet.de) |
| 09:15.18 | aBound | BlitzHere, No doubt I'd say use what works best for you if you know Debian better than any other distribution. |
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| 09:15.56 | Debolaz | BotaniCar|2: I can't help noticing you did get an answer in #ubuntu :) |
| 09:16.00 | aBound | BotaniCar|2, I'm on a laptop never was able to get two monitors as I only have one HDMI port. |
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| 09:16.37 | aBound | BlitzHere, In the near future I'm thinking of either moving to ArchLinux or Debian. |
| 09:17.18 | BlitzHere | aBound: Yeah, that's the beauty of choice. Although as a disclaimer I did try Crunchbang, Bodhi, PCLinuxOS LXDE, OpenSUSE LXDE, ZorinOS Lite, Slacko puppylinux Fedora LXDE and mageia... |
| 09:17.22 | BotaniCar|2 | aBound: i got a reply from a guy that is not sure 'should' is not realy a firm statement. Anyhow, thanks for reply |
| 09:17.24 | Debolaz | aBound: Heh, arch is what made me want systemd in ubuntu. |
| 09:17.29 | aBound | Can't stand Fedora as it's on the bleeding edge and at times can be unstable. Linux Mint is to bloated and Ubuntu is nice but I think that easyness is what makes me feel like I'm back on Windows. lol |
| 09:17.44 | *** join/#debian anigma (anigma@pdpc/supporter/student/anigma) |
| 09:18.04 | aBound | Debolaz, What's systemd? |
| 09:18.06 | aBound | lol |
| 09:18.38 | aBound | I tried openSuSe too bloated and I'm not a fan of RPM or there other package manager. |
| 09:18.43 | *** join/#debian tPl0ch (~profipimp@hsi-kbw-046-005-085-118.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 09:18.44 | BlitzHere | aBound: Yeah, do some distro hopping... |
| 09:18.46 | Debolaz | aBound: init replacement that makes bootup times go from "hmm, this isnt so bad" to "wow, i blinked and im at the login window" |
| 09:19.13 | aBound | Slackware is too old and you'll end up finding to many dependencies you need unless you use slack-apt or slapt-apt whatever it's called. |
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| 09:19.34 | BlitzHere | aBound: yeah yum, urpmi -- they don't match up to apt or aptitude |
| 09:19.37 | aBound | Debolaz, Hehe I'm on an SSD it's nicee... |
| 09:19.43 | *** part/#debian Mikoman (~Michal@pc35.vm.stuba.sk) |
| 09:19.49 | Debolaz | aBound: A problem I have trying other dists though, is that I always keep longing back to Unity. Few wms are as keyboard friendly as vanilla Ubuntu. |
| 09:19.55 | aBound | BotaniCar|2, No problem welcome. |
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| 09:20.13 | aBound | apt-get so far is easy but heard that pacman was pretty nice too. |
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| 09:20.37 | aBound | Debolaz, I seen a nice fluxbox setup for Arch. |
| 09:20.58 | BlitzHere | Anyway, time for some restarts and stability testing. Be back later |
| 09:21.06 | aBound | BlitzHere, No kidding at times it makes me wonder if I should switch to using FreeBSD. |
| 09:21.07 | aBound | lol |
| 09:21.16 | Calinou_ | <aBound> I know Ubuntu can use multiple monitors I can't comment much on Debian. |
| 09:21.17 | Calinou_ | it can |
| 09:21.24 | Calinou_ | " And anything that is "easy to configure" is bloaty." < hi archlinux fanboy! |
| 09:21.46 | Calinou_ | ragequit. :) |
| 09:22.09 | aBound | Some of the easy distros have customized installs so it can reduce the bloat. |
| 09:22.11 | aBound | :P |
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| 09:22.20 | Debolaz | will switch back to FreeBSD if the dev crowd there can get it into their head that we aren't in the 90s anymore. |
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| 09:23.22 | aBound | Debolaz, I would love to have my desktop looking like this: http://ompldr.org/vNDNieQ It's on ArchLinux. Using Fluxbox and some other tools. |
| 09:23.45 | aBound | Calinou_, Who ya calling a Arch fanboy? I never used Arch before... |
| 09:24.01 | Calinou_ | pretty much anyone advertising it, especially as a first distro |
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| 09:24.50 | aBound | Sounds more like an assumption that an accurate statement. |
| 09:24.50 | aBound | :P |
| 09:24.55 | Debolaz | Sexy looking indeed. But a screenshot isn't telling me a lot about functionality, which is my #1 priority when looking for a wm. I'm not staying with Unity because of its ghastly purple colors. Frankly, Unity is one of the uglier wms around, but it works so damn well. |
| 09:25.46 | aBound | Debolaz, In given time who knows it might be more customizable and hopefully compiz is more stable in the future. |
| 09:26.04 | Debolaz | aBound: Actually, in 12.04, I'd compiz is finally worthy of being called stable. |
| 09:26.18 | Debolaz | *I'd say |
| 09:26.45 | Calinou_ | <Debolaz> Sexy looking indeed. But a screenshot isn't telling me a lot about functionality, which is my #1 priority when looking for a wm. I'm not staying with Unity because of its ghastly purple colors. Frankly, Unity is one of the uglier wms around, but it works so damn well. |
| 09:26.53 | Calinou_ | you know changing the wallpaper makes it non-purple? |
| 09:27.04 | Calinou_ | uses xfce |
| 09:27.06 | Debolaz | Calinou_: I think you're missing the important point here. |
| 09:27.08 | aBound | I'm using Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but I definitely have a fear of messing with it when I used 11.10 it caused all sorts of issues. But you might be using an entirely different video card than me eh? |
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| 09:27.20 | Calinou_ | 11.10 sucked, a lot |
| 09:27.49 | aBound | Debolaz, Did you get the desktop cube working? |
| 09:28.04 | Debolaz | aBound: Never tried. |
| 09:28.24 | b0lt | just switch to awesome wm already |
| 09:28.26 | b0lt | get some work done |
| 09:28.28 | *** join/#debian snhmib (~jurjen@a83-163-200-186.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 09:28.28 | aBound | I think I tried to enable the Compiz wallpaper plugin and couldn't get it to work. lol |
| 09:28.30 | b0lt | stop looking at fancy cubes |
| 09:28.47 | aBound | b0lt, You know you want those fancy cubes. :P |
| 09:28.53 | Calinou_ | dekstop cube is for trolls who want to make things glitch out |
| 09:29.01 | b0lt | aBound: when I'm showing off, yes. not at work. |
| 09:29.10 | Debolaz | gave awesomewm 1 chance, and stopped using it when it wouldnt maximize windows. |
| 09:29.11 | aBound | I can only live wth a WM or GUI as long as it has virtual windows. |
| 09:29.37 | b0lt | Debolaz: it can |
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| 09:29.52 | Debolaz | b0lt: But I shouldn't have to do extensive research on a wm to maximize a window in it. |
| 09:30.00 | Debolaz | b0lt: That just tells me that its badly designed. |
| 09:30.09 | b0lt | Debolaz: it's for people who know lua. |
| 09:30.16 | Debolaz | I know lua. |
| 09:30.23 | Calinou_ | inb4 minetest |
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| 09:30.46 | b0lt | Debolaz: i have a hotkey to remove my little top bar and maximize the current window to fill absolutely the entire screen, with no borders at all. do that in your wm. :) |
| 09:31.18 | aBound | Hack it. |
| 09:31.19 | aBound | :P |
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| 09:34.12 | aBound | Are tiling window managers actually useful while writing code? |
| 09:34.50 | aBound | Seems I need to experiment more often. |
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| 09:37.23 | Calinou | aBound, no, they aren't. |
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| 09:39.28 | aBound | Hmm, I'd figure one of you is using the awesome tiling window manager. For doing some form of work. |
| 09:40.35 | aBound | Oh well. |
| 09:41.14 | Debolaz | aBound: What do you think of ubuntu webapps? :) |
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| 09:42.11 | Calinou | inb4 they suck |
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| 09:42.41 | aBound | Debolaz, I think it's a step in the right direction it does open doors for more innovation. |
| 09:42.52 | Shadur | I think whoever came up with the name really should have thought about what the latter word means first. |
| 09:43.07 | Debolaz | thinks its damn neat to get facebook and gmail in the messaging menu as a builtin feature. |
| 09:43.31 | aBound | Linux is open source I mean there's an endless amount of innovations. |
| 09:43.53 | aBound | Nothing but choice. |
| 09:44.03 | *** join/#debian Mkaysi (Mkaysi@trekweb/user/Mkaysi) |
| 09:44.16 | aBound | Just look at the guys who wrote VIM or Emacs. :) |
| 09:44.28 | Shadur | Because what we really need is for Facebook to be even more intrusive, right... |
| 09:44.42 | aBound | Debolaz, I like that app called ShowMyFaves but there was no PPA for it. |
| 09:44.52 | aBound | Visual Bookmarks on your desktop seemed nice. |
| 09:45.31 | *** join/#debian chichou (~chichou@unaffiliated/chichou) |
| 09:45.36 | aBound | Shadur, Nope because nobody said you had to install it. lol |
| 09:45.55 | Calinou | <aBound> Just look at the guys who wrote VIM or Emacs. :) |
| 09:45.58 | Calinou | I never used vim or emacs |
| 09:46.00 | Calinou | YHBT |
| 09:46.04 | aBound | Debolaz, I tend to use Thunderbird combined with GMail. |
| 09:46.23 | aBound | Calinou, You may never have but thousands of others have. :) |
| 09:46.37 | aBound | I been using it but still new to it. |
| 09:46.52 | Debolaz | aBound: I have yet to make thunderbird work as I want it to. I don't bother reading all my mail, I just archive it. Thunderbird thinks its important to notify me of every single mail I havent read, archived or not. |
| 09:47.31 | aBound | HA! Nice I tend to mostly get junk in my mail though. |
| 09:48.09 | aBound | I dislike the idea of Mozilla stopping development on Thunderbird and letting the community handle it as it reduces the amount of workforce. |
| 09:49.16 | Calinou | thunderbird: best client ever. :D |
| 09:49.33 | Debolaz | aBound: In total, I have almost 15 000 emails in my account. More than a few of those are unread. |
| 09:49.59 | aBound | Debolaz, Dang hand em over as long as they aren't junk. :P |
| 09:51.32 | Calinou | doesn't have much spam, gmail ftw |
| 09:51.37 | Calinou | bring on all the google haters |
| 09:51.48 | aBound | Google+ |
| 09:52.12 | Debolaz | Google Apps++ |
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| 09:52.21 | Debolaz | Free mail hosting on your own domain ftw. |
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| 09:53.39 | aBound | HA! |
| 09:53.41 | aBound | Nicee... |
| 09:53.55 | aBound | Who wouldn't love to work at Google right? |
| 09:54.30 | *** join/#debian akcx (~akcx@trevelyan.smersh.ch) |
| 09:54.37 | aBound | The amount of open source tools they use (of course, they have to use some proprietary tools). But I'm guessing the majority is open source. |
| 09:54.58 | *** join/#debian DelphiWorld (~VoCloud@2001:1b10:1003:8:4519:576f:f44d:974c) |
| 09:55.02 | DelphiWorld | Hello |
| 09:55.08 | DelphiWorld | i see default MTA on debian is exim4. |
| 09:55.16 | DelphiWorld | what's the default POP3/IMAP server? |
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| 09:56.07 | thewanderer1 | DelphiWorld: there is none - mail is saved locally so that MUAs can read it from files |
| 09:56.18 | *** join/#debian ratatata (~nu@88-222-70-216.meganet.lt) |
| 09:56.20 | DelphiWorld | thewanderer1: what ? |
| 09:56.29 | DelphiWorld | thewanderer1: i set up a deb machine yesterday |
| 09:56.33 | DelphiWorld | and selected mail server |
| 09:56.42 | DelphiWorld | i see pop3/imap open but i don't know what process is using it |
| 09:56.55 | akcx | netstat -tlnp | grep 143 |
| 09:56.56 | ratatata | nu |
| 09:57.10 | DelphiWorld | akcx: trying:-P |
| 09:57.40 | thewanderer1 | DelphiWorld: aha, you mean when you select the "mail server" task... (but, by default, there's only an MTA when you don't select it) :P |
| 09:58.05 | DelphiWorld | thewanderer1: YUP i select it... so what's the software doing it? :-P |
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| 09:58.29 | Calinou | <Debolaz> Free mail hosting on your own domain ftw. |
| 09:58.31 | Calinou | free russian spam ftw. |
| 09:58.32 | thewanderer1 | DelphiWorld: netstat should tell you, I've never done it that way |
| 09:58.36 | Calinou | ^ how I feel about home-hosted services |
| 09:59.01 | Debolaz | Calinou: Google stops most of that. :) |
| 09:59.06 | DelphiWorld | thewanderer1: netstat -tlnp | grep 143 give: tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:143 0.0.0.0:* |
| 09:59.25 | akcx | there is some output missing from that line... |
| 09:59.36 | akcx | tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:22 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1359/sshd |
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| 09:59.55 | akcx | this is how such a line would look... (with grep for 22) |
| 10:00.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1213] by debhelper |
| 10:00.08 | akcx | are you doing this as root? |
| 10:00.20 | DelphiWorld | LAUL akcx :-P |
| 10:00.27 | DelphiWorld | akcx: was my idiot terminal ;-) |
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| 10:00.40 | DelphiWorld | akcx: is bsd inet but i don't know what process |
| 10:01.10 | akcx | well then have a look at your inetd.conf |
| 10:01.28 | akcx | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inetd |
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| 10:01.41 | DelphiWorld | akcx: doing;-) |
| 10:01.53 | DelphiWorld | akcx: thank you for been very helpfull including thewanderer1 |
| 10:03.37 | DelphiWorld | akcx: imaps stream tcp nowait root /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/imapd |
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| 10:04.25 | akcx | so now you do dpkg -S /usr/bin/imapd |
| 10:04.36 | akcx | this gives you the package this file comes from |
| 10:04.51 | akcx | then you check /usr/share/doc/<package> for more information... |
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| 10:05.31 | DelphiWorld | akcx: ;) |
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| 10:06.13 | DelphiWorld | akcx: i'm setting up my home UTM |
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| 10:07.10 | akcx | no offense, but getting some basic knowledge first would seem like a good suggestion at this point :-) |
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| 10:10.01 | raidghost | What is it with HP and their need of closed clode on ethernet cards? |
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| 10:10.44 | DelphiWorld | raidghost: clode? |
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| 10:11.43 | jboogie | any idea of how (and if) I can flash a bios upgrade on my laptop from debian stable? |
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| 10:12.32 | jboogie | the bios upgrade contains a .WPH file and a windows .exe that should flash it (under windows) |
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| 10:14.12 | jboogie | flashrom? |
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| 10:15.27 | thewanderer1 | jboogie: if it's for Windows, then you should do it under Windows, or else things can seriously break and possibly brick the hardware. it probably won't work with flashrom... |
| 10:16.23 | jboogie | uhm, I see.. |
| 10:16.34 | DelphiWorld | jboogie: better a m$Winbug live cd |
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| 10:17.21 | jboogie | DelphiWorld: what's that? |
| 10:17.31 | DelphiWorld | jbb: microsoft windows live cd |
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| 10:20.00 | aBound | Time for sleep. :) |
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| 10:20.02 | solstis | hi guys |
| 10:20.10 | solstis | which programs plays midi files? |
| 10:21.01 | surf | hi guys is it possible to compile a new kernel outside the usual /usr/src? because I have 3 gigs of free space in /. the process will create the usual .deb that I will install right? |
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| 10:25.24 | jboogie | solstis: timidity, tuxguitar, musescore |
| 10:25.45 | jboogie | what type of files are they? |
| 10:25.51 | jboogie | orchestral scores? |
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| 10:26.33 | solstis | yes |
| 10:26.38 | solstis | not orchestral |
| 10:26.44 | solstis | but scores for a small combo |
| 10:27.47 | jboogie | then musescore I think is your best bet |
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| 10:32.57 | solstis | thank you |
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| 10:41.08 | DelphiWorld | Yo folks |
| 10:41.15 | DelphiWorld | if i use this openbsd inet imapd |
| 10:41.19 | DelphiWorld | where's the config to it ? |
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| 10:46.23 | DelphiWorld | yo babilen ;-) |
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| 10:49.22 | DelphiWorld | abrotman: |
| 10:49.30 | DelphiWorld | abrotman + babilen === Debian Freedom |
| 10:50.26 | babilen | DelphiWorld: There really isn't a need to highlight us in #debian |
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| 10:50.47 | DelphiWorld | babilen, just to say HELLO. that's *ALL* ;-) |
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| 11:01.19 | ksk | hi |
| 11:01.41 | ksk | do i get this right, the ffmpeg ( from lenny repo ) does not support converting $foo to mp3? (couse of mp3 not being free) |
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| 11:03.18 | ansgar | Maybe. Lenny is dead so it doesn't matter too much :) |
| 11:03.21 | DelphiWorld | ksk: i think yes. MP3 is pathented |
| 11:03.28 | Rosenzweig|Deb | RIP in peace Lenny. |
| 11:03.55 | DelphiWorld | apt-get -f install give me the following error |
| 11:04.03 | DelphiWorld | E: Could not perform immediate configuration on 'exim4-daemon-light'. Please see man 5 apt.conf under APT::Immediate-Configure for details. (2) |
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| 11:04.22 | ksk | is the situation different in squeeze? no? |
| 11:04.45 | DelphiWorld | ksk: i think is same, debian policy |
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| 11:05.01 | ksk | thanks |
| 11:05.12 | around | Rosenzweig|Deb: sorry, I can't resist: "RIP in peace" = "Rest In Peace in peace" |
| 11:05.19 | Rosenzweig|Deb | That's the joke. |
| 11:05.25 | around | oh, ok :P |
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| 11:05.38 | around | wb dpkg |
| 11:05.45 | around | (yes I know it's a bot :P) |
| 11:05.55 | around | lol, a user cloak for dpkg! |
| 11:06.30 | Rosenzweig|Deb | Hey, when was the last time that the free radeon drivers were updated. |
| 11:06.50 | DelphiWorld | anyone can help with this issue please? E: Could not perform immediate configuration on 'exim4-daemon-light'. Please see man 5 apt.conf unde |
| 11:06.50 | DelphiWorld | r APT::Immediate-Configure for details. (2) |
| 11:07.34 | DelphiWorld | crap i helped myself |
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| 11:07.40 | DelphiWorld | apt-get remove exim4 fixed it |
| 11:07.55 | around | Rosenzweig|Deb: not sure what is the exact package name (`radeon'?), but try `aptitude changelog packagename' |
| 11:08.30 | Rosenzweig|Deb | I guess I could always check the changelog. :p |
| 11:08.49 | around | Delphi-World: you shouldn't remove exim4 unless you have another MTA installed!! |
| 11:08.59 | around | !mta |
| 11:08.59 | dpkg | A Message/Mail Transfer Agent (MTA) is a program that transfers e-mail in or out of a system, most often using SMTP. An MTA is usually accessed by calling /usr/sbin/sendmail and thus usually includes that binary. Therefore, in Debian, all MTAs (<exim4>, <postfix>, <qmail>, <ssmtp>, <nullmailer>, etc) mutually conflict. Ask me about <which mta>, <mta comparison> and <why an mta>. http://wooledge.org/~greg/mail.html |
| 11:09.11 | around | !why an mta |
| 11:09.12 | dpkg | An MTA should be on most Unix(ish) systems to provide a way for various services to deliver asynchronous system or error messages. This includes things like cron and at (to give you the output of jobs) and various daemons (e.g. the init script of MySQL). The MTA does not have to listen to network ports so spam and security issues are largely irrelevant. See also <nullmailer>. |
| 11:09.20 | around | sorry for spam |
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| 11:09.41 | around | I should have used !tell <nick> about (after finding the righr one in /query) |
| 11:09.46 | DelphiWorld | around: ;-) |
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| 11:10.16 | Rosenzweig|Deb | It was last updated in June. |
| 11:10.26 | Rosenzweig|Deb | So maybe they'll get GLSL #130 support. |
| 11:10.29 | Rosenzweig|Deb | Maybe. :) |
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| 11:14.21 | vaq | Is it possible to re-route all locally generated port 25 packets to another dst:port, when hosting virtual machines? I tried using OUTPUT NAT but that only seems to work at the host node. The virtual setup is XEN using bridge interfaces. I tried: iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -m physdev --physdev-in vifvm3239.0 -p tcp --dport 25 -j DNAT --to-destination xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:25, but that doesn't seem to route the traffic properly |
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| 11:17.43 | DelphiWorld | adnanali: yo! |
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| 11:18.16 | adnanali | DelphiWorld: hi :) |
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| 11:24.45 | suborbital | hey when is wheezy being released ? |
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| 11:25.07 | suborbital | i forget |
| 11:25.20 | babilen | !tell suborbital about wwwr |
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| 11:25.47 | suborbital | found it |
| 11:25.48 | around | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:25.51 | around | Oops |
| 11:26.11 | adnanali | suborbital: well before sqeeze heh :-) |
| 11:26.16 | suborbital | ready when its ready |
| 11:26.21 | suborbital | lol |
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| 11:35.44 | kakashi_ | I have a question - How do I install jcc with --shared enabled using apt-get? |
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| 11:36.13 | kakashi_ | can I send the parameters with apt-get for it to install the jcc with shared enabled |
| 11:36.32 | babilen | kakashi_: You mean that you want to recompile the jcc package as it is not compiled with --shared? |
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| 11:37.28 | kakashi_ | yes |
| 11:37.51 | babilen | kakashi_: You might also want to read the packages' debian/rules file and in particular the comment on shared (http://bugs.python.org/setuptools/issue43) |
| 11:37.59 | babilen | !tell kakashi_ -about package recompile |
| 11:38.32 | babilen | kakashi_: It looks as if the package is compiled that way due to the aforementioned bug. You might also want to check the Debian bug tracker for discussions of the issue |
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| 11:39.29 | zoldar | hello, is it possible to retrieve packages http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html from somewhere? I can't find any reference to the debs |
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| 12:05.36 | livingdaylight | greetings |
| 12:05.46 | Edowardo | Having an issue with playing concurrent audio/sound on a Debian 64 system. Tried a few tweaks off google with asound and pulse but to no avail. Just tried a fresh install to see if it would solve it self, but it's still happening. |
| 12:06.15 | abrotman | DelphiWorld: Why do you keep needlessly highlighting me? |
| 12:06.19 | livingdaylight | I'm looking to migrate from ubuntu Unity. What does Debian use now. There seem to be more window manager than ever - makes my head spin |
| 12:06.30 | DelphiWorld | abrotman: ;) |
| 12:06.37 | abrotman | livingdaylight: you can use most any WM you like |
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| 12:12.17 | JimLesta | I'm looking for a simple 2D CAD. Any suggestion? |
| 12:13.19 | Calinou | <none> |
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| 12:16.16 | DelphiWorld | where i can read my syslog? |
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| 12:19.39 | guampa | DelphiWorld: by issuing this command in a terminal, w/o quotes: "less /var/log/syslog" |
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| 12:20.10 | DelphiWorld | guampa: Thank you. |
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| 12:22.19 | abrotman | ... |
| 12:22.42 | abrotman | JimLesta: there are CAD programs in Debian, but not sure how mature they are |
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| 12:24.48 | thewanderer1 | JimLesta: try LibreCad, it had positive opinions under the previous name (qcad) |
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| 12:26.30 | JimLesta | abrotman, thewanderer1 thank you |
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| 12:29.34 | benje | hello |
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| 12:32.04 | benje | i got some problem with sid and libgl1-nvidia-glx-ia32 |
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| 12:33.07 | benje | which is the package to get libgl i386 with the amd64 sid ? |
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| 12:34.52 | benje | it tell me ia32-libs depend of ia32-libs-i386 but not in |
| 12:35.31 | fhffhqvb | !tell benje about packages |
| 12:35.48 | fhffhqvb | that's not the one. |
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| 12:36.06 | fhffhqvb | !pdo |
| 12:36.06 | dpkg | http://packages.debian.org/ - here you can search for Debian packages and their contents. Pretty Damned Obvious, isn't it?, or http://people.debian.org/ in some contexts. Maybe even http://planet.debian.org/ |
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| 12:36.45 | benje | ok fhffhqvb |
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| 12:37.26 | benje | fhffhqvb: so i have to do it manually ? but in sid i add the dpkg -arch |
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| 12:39.19 | benje | fhffhqvb: i do a apt-get install apt-get install ia32-libs-i386 libjack0 and seems to install ia32 i wait for the end |
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| 12:41.50 | benje | yeah now libgl1-nividia-glx-ia32 install |
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| 12:44.39 | babilen | benje: I would recommend to ditch ia32 libs and install the necessary libraries using multiarch. (cf. /msg dpkg multiarch) -- What do you need them for? |
| 12:45.52 | benje | for a game babilen wine but with multiarch it don't do it but he install me the multiarch libx86-1:i386 |
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| 12:46.32 | aes | (Forgive me, for I have sinned.) I used apt-get -t testing. Is it contagious? |
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| 12:47.09 | aes | That is, how will the testing:ness spread to it's dependencies? |
| 12:47.11 | benje | babilen i do the dpkg --add-architecture i386 and add the i386 to repo |
| 12:47.13 | babilen | benje: Yeah, wine is still whining, but the problems you encounter are due to multiarch and the fact that ia32 libs are being faded out. Can't really help you off-hand as I haven't investigated the situation in more detail due to me not using wine. |
| 12:47.48 | aes | apt-cache policy says that the newer package (the installed one) is the candidate, even thought it exists in stable... |
| 12:48.21 | benje | yeah i see it ;) babilen in fact i would like to install the nviidia 32 to run wie game all wine is ok but i cannot found how to install it as it depend of ia32 |
| 12:48.27 | babilen | aes: You have to provide more details. "apt-get -t testing" is not a command and even an "apt-get -t testing install foo" doesn't have an effect if you don't have testing in your sources.list. Mixing stable with *anything* but backports is, however, strongly discouraged. |
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| 12:49.13 | benje | i am under sid it seems as the upgrade failed for some maybe i got a stranghe distro |
| 12:49.30 | aes | Aha, ok. It's there but I have a bunch of weights to keep it from freaking out... |
| 12:49.33 | babilen | benje: I guess that you have to sort out the ia32 mess that exists in sid right now. You might be able to pull in some ia32 libs from testing (if they haven't been removed), but I have no idea if that works right now. |
| 12:49.33 | benje | babilen you want to see something ? |
| 12:49.58 | DrumScum | okay, weird stuff going on here... |
| 12:50.02 | benje | seems the meta with dpkg install the i386 file from their repo |
| 12:50.12 | DrumScum | suddenly I cannot authenticate against our Windows AD anymore |
| 12:50.24 | benje | yes babilen |
| 12:50.26 | DrumScum | what could be up with that? |
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| 12:50.44 | DrumScum | wbinfo -u & wbinfo -g still can resolve users and groups |
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| 12:51.20 | babilen | benje: Yes, please paste relevant output, your sources.list and the output of "apt-cache policy" "apt-cache policy PKG1 PKG2 ... PKGN" to http://paste.debian.net |
| 12:51.22 | DrumScum | and ntlm_auth also still can authenticate users |
| 12:51.28 | aes | babilen: apt-cache policy says: http://pastebin.com/0J3X4Bn7 |
| 12:51.33 | benje | babilen so while start the 32game i was getting error about libgl for nvidia ok |
| 12:51.59 | babilen | benje: Err, sorry .. That was meant for aes :) (aes, please see above) |
| 12:52.24 | DrumScum | su domain.user however returns "Unknown id: domain.user" |
| 12:52.25 | babilen | aes: Which release are you trying to run? |
| 12:52.36 | DrumScum | anyone? |
| 12:52.41 | aes | stable, mostly... |
| 12:52.59 | benje | babilen http://paste.debian.net/180725/ for source.list |
| 12:53.02 | babilen | aes: Well, in that case you should *never* ever mix it with testing or unstable. |
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| 12:53.17 | aes | I mean, I'd like a few things from testing, or even home compiled, ... |
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| 12:53.29 | babilen | !tell aes -about ssb |
| 12:53.35 | babilen | ,checkbackport libgc1c2 |
| 12:53.37 | judd | Backporting package libgc1c2 in sid→squeeze/i386: all build-dependencies satisfied using squeeze. |
| 12:53.45 | babilen | Should work just fine for libgc1c2 |
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| 12:54.08 | benje | babilen you want policy about ? ia32-libs-i386 libjack0 libgl1-nividia-glx-ia32 |
| 12:54.16 | babilen | aes: The question is: How much damage have you done? How many packages did you install from testing? |
| 12:54.25 | aes | 8, 10? |
| 12:54.56 | benje | babilen http://paste.debian.net/180726/ |
| 12:55.05 | aes | I don't have a habit of blindly upgrading, so at least I'll know if it starts going out of control... |
| 12:55.23 | babilen | benje: No, I don't. That message was meant for aes and not you. I would recommend to try installing those packages from testing (if that is possible). I have to admit that I have no interest in wine whatsoever and I will probably just start to blame the maintainer for the ia32 mess |
| 12:55.53 | benje | ok but i found a strange tthing with this x) nvidia not found x) |
| 12:55.58 | babilen | aes: I would recommend to manually backport selected packages and (if at all) mix stable only with backports. |
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| 12:56.41 | aes | Right... is there an easy way to roll your own backports, then? |
| 12:56.50 | babilen | benje: Show me the strange output on http://paste.debian.net -- There might be something you can do, but I would have to spend some time to gather information about the whole problem. |
| 12:57.35 | benje | :p babilen now how we install a specific for an arch with the multiarch |
| 12:57.53 | babilen | aes: Yes, I've asked our bot a couple of minutes ago to tell you about that method. ("!tell aes -about ssb") You can ask the bot yourself though ("/msg dpkg ssb") -- if you want to know what other depedencies have to be backported you can use "/msg judd checkbackport FOO" |
| 12:58.15 | benje | babilen: here http://paste.debian.net/180726/ last line cannot found nvidia... as i install it |
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| 12:59.01 | babilen | benje: The package "libgl1-nividia-glx-ia32" does certainly not exist (note the typo "nividia" vs "nvidia") |
| 12:59.08 | babilen | ,v libgl1-nvidia-glx-ia32 |
| 12:59.10 | judd | No package named 'libgl1-nvidia-glx-ia32' was found in i386. |
| 12:59.13 | benje | x) sry |
| 12:59.19 | babilen | ,v libgl1-nividia-glx-ia32 |
| 12:59.20 | judd | No package named 'libgl1-nividia-glx-ia32' was found in i386. |
| 12:59.37 | babilen | err, wrong arch |
| 12:59.55 | babilen | ,v libgl1-nvidia-glx-ia32 --arch amd64 |
| 12:59.56 | judd | Package: libgl1-nvidia-glx-ia32 on amd64 -- squeeze/non-free: 195.36.31-6; squeeze-proposed-updates/non-free: 195.36.31-6squeeze1; squeeze-backports/non-free: 295.59-1~bpo60+1; sid/non-free: 302.17-3; wheezy/non-free: 302.17-3; experimental/non-free: 304.22-1 |
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| 13:00.21 | benje | yes those from amd64 i get |
| 13:00.21 | babilen | benje: As you can see ^^^ that package is in sid. |
| 13:00.36 | benje | yes but depend of ia32 |
| 13:00.59 | benje | how i choose those from i386 for multiarch ? |
| 13:01.16 | benje | but those from amd6' work for now |
| 13:02.01 | babilen | benje: Which error are you trying to fix? The ia32 packages are *no longer needed* with multiarch. In fact one of the main reasons for multiarch to exist is the hope to get rid of ia32 libs and the like. |
| 13:02.25 | benje | ok so i install ia3é just to satfact the dep but don't needed ? |
| 13:02.45 | babilen | benje: You can just install the 32bit package directly using multiarch. So not a single package should depend on ia32 libs anymore. If they do, they should be upgraded as their packaging is outdated. |
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| 13:03.38 | benje | babilen so blame libgl1-nvidia-glx-ia32 as it depend of ia32-libs |
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| 13:04.05 | babilen | benje: Take skype as an example: The amd64 skype package used to ship the i386 code with different dependencies (it depdended on ia32 bit libs) -- Nowadays you would just install the 32bit/i386 package and all its 32bit/i386 depdencies directly as you can now mix architectures. |
| 13:04.11 | benje | babilen: if i want the libgl1-nvidia-glx from i386 to do the multiarch how i do that N |
| 13:04.25 | babilen | benje: Why do you think you need libgl1-nvidia-glx-ia32 ? |
| 13:04.40 | benje | as wine use 3é bit arch |
| 13:04.40 | babilen | !tell benje about multiarch |
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| 13:04.50 | benje | babilen: i read it ;) |
| 13:05.13 | benje | i understand but there a contradiction i need libgl of nvidia for the wine32 prog |
| 13:05.15 | N0tch | Did anyone else just get isc-dhc-client&isc-dhcp-common update notifications on squeeze? I just observed something 'peculiar' ... My net connection actually dropped (at the router level, not Debian) ... and now after reconnecting, I have these two DHCP-related security updates available? |
| 13:05.15 | N0tch | And of course they *never* come with changelogs, and just say "Downloading list of changes failed." .... |
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| 13:05.33 | N0tch | Where can I get proper security update changelogs? |
| 13:05.44 | babilen | benje: As I said earlier: I have no idea about the insanity that is wine and do not wish to learn about it. If the amd64 package depends on ia32 libs the packaging is outdated in terms of the wine version that is packaged and its dependencies. |
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| 13:06.15 | benje | yes it would be the same of 3é prog that would need libgl of nvidia ;) |
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| 13:06.23 | Rosenzweig|Deb | So wheezy is frosen, right? |
| 13:06.25 | Rosenzweig|Deb | frozen* |
| 13:06.27 | babilen | benje: You might be able to install the i386 wine package though, but that will get you a very old wine version anyway. (wine is in a bit of a sad state AFAIK) -- See also "/msg dpkg newer wine" and referenced factoids. |
| 13:06.32 | babilen | Rosenzweig|Deb: correct |
| 13:06.34 | benje | it's not a wine dep but a 32bit prog dep |
| 13:06.41 | Rosenzweig|Deb | I'm thinking of changing to sid then. |
| 13:06.46 | babilen | benje: Which "32bit prog" ? |
| 13:06.49 | Rosenzweig|Deb | To fix the ati driver issue. |
| 13:07.02 | benje | babilen: 32bits program |
| 13:07.11 | babilen | Rosenzweig|Deb: You can mix testing and unstable -- See "/msg dpkg tum" for an approach |
| 13:07.22 | babilen | benje: Yes, I understood that. Which program is that? |
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| 13:07.35 | Rosenzweig|Deb | xorg won't work with the proprietary drivers. |
| 13:07.40 | Rosenzweig|Deb | But I need them for doing OpenGL work. |
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| 13:07.43 | benje | babilen: in my kind it's a game but it could be anything which need graphic card 32 bit libgl |
| 13:08.02 | Rosenzweig|Deb | The current free drivers use an older version of opengl, and more importantly, of glsl. |
| 13:08.13 | babilen | benje: So you want to install a game using a third-party .deb that has outdated depdencies? |
| 13:08.29 | benje | babilen: just one question as i do the multiarch config |
| 13:08.40 | babilen | Rosenzweig|Deb: Yes, you can just pull in packages from sid. No need to upgrade everyhting. You can, however, also track sid if you wish. |
| 13:08.58 | benje | babilen: no libgl of nvidia in sid got bad dependecies as it depends of ia-32 |
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| 13:09.43 | benje | babilen: about my question just hjow i ask the packager to install amd6' or i386 file ? |
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| 13:09.53 | babilen | !multiarch |
| 13:09.54 | dpkg | Debian is working towards the ability to install packages from one architecture on a machine that is running a different architecture. This makes i386/amd64 issues simpler (no more ia32-libs!), helps tag firmware blobs with the correct arch and allows easier cross-compiling and bootstrapping. Multiarch support is a release goal for Debian 7.0 "Wheezy". http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110726b http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch |
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| 13:10.04 | benje | babilen: lol i read this |
| 13:10.06 | N0tch | http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/isc-dhcp-client says version 4.3.1-P1-15+squeeze3 is the latest but apt is reporting 4.1.1-P1-15+squeeze4 ? |
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| 13:10.07 | babilen | benje: Read that ^^^ (the bot sent you that a couple of times already) |
| 13:10.19 | benje | yes and i already read it |
| 13:10.34 | Rosenzweig|Deb | N0tch, get back to work. |
| 13:10.35 | benje | so it automatic ? i cannot force file from one repo ? |
| 13:10.37 | Rosenzweig|Deb | You lazy. |
| 13:10.44 | N0tch | What? |
| 13:10.46 | babilen | N0tch: The website does not necessarily reflect the current version in real time. Trust whatever is on the mirrors. |
| 13:11.04 | themill | N0tch: where do you see that version on that link? |
| 13:11.13 | *** join/#debian Deathvalley122 (~Death@volumedrive.eagleits.net) |
| 13:11.18 | N0tch | "Package: isc-dhcp-client (4.1.1-P1-15+squeeze3)" |
| 13:11.29 | *** join/#debian bartus (~bartus@nat4-10.ghnet.pl) |
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| 13:11.38 | themill | N0tch: that's not what you said earlier... |
| 13:11.39 | ksk | whois N0tch |
| 13:11.48 | N0tch | themill: i think you misread |
| 13:11.56 | themill | did not |
| 13:12.10 | N0tch | PAGE=3, APT=4, PAGE!=APT |
| 13:12.15 | babilen | benje: As detailed on http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO you would use "apt-get install package:architecture" -- But please from the beginning: *Which* package exactly starts the ia32 dependency chain? Please paste relevant output to http://paste.debian.net so I can help you to solve this problem. |
| 13:12.36 | themill | N0tch: yes, there is a difference, but it's not in the versions you claimed which was even more confusing... |
| 13:12.48 | _-`user0 | Bonjour !!! |
| 13:12.54 | benje | ok abailen i see :arch for install specific repo file :) |
| 13:13.01 | benje | salut _-`user0 |
| 13:13.03 | N0tch | themill: i don't follow |
| 13:13.10 | abrotman | benje: bab<tab> |
| 13:13.11 | benje | thx babilen |
| 13:13.21 | benje | yep :p sry babilen |
| 13:13.26 | themill | N0tch: yes, page and apt disagree. The page does not list the version you claimed. All that does is leave everyone confused. |
| 13:13.27 | Rosenzweig|Deb | Okay, so in the sources.list file... |
| 13:13.28 | Rosenzweig|Deb | What do I edit? |
| 13:13.31 | Rosenzweig|Deb | Do I add a new sid line. |
| 13:13.32 | aes | Thing is, what does -t testing actually do? I can't find any effect, except the installed packages.. |
| 13:13.36 | *** join/#debian cwickert (~chris@fedora/cwickert) |
| 13:13.38 | N0tch | themill: oh, whatever that was a slight typo. the point is the versions are different |
| 13:13.44 | babilen | Rosenzweig|Deb: What do you want to do? |
| 13:14.01 | themill | N0tch: sure. But now I actually understand what you're asking, I have a chance of answering... |
| 13:14.03 | N0tch | themill: where can i get changelogs for the latest security pushes? |
| 13:14.05 | themill | N0tch: all packages come with a changelog; you can look at the changelog for the package in question. It's a recently released security update so it's not likely to have been picked up by packages.d.o |
| 13:14.06 | Rosenzweig|Deb | I want sid xorg packages. |
| 13:14.11 | Rosenzweig|Deb | So I can use the propreitary drivers. |
| 13:14.13 | Rosenzweig|Deb | proprietary* |
| 13:14.15 | abrotman | Rosenzweig|Deb: if you don't know how, please don't |
| 13:14.19 | abrotman | Rosenzweig|Deb: and LAY OFF THE ENTER KEY |
| 13:14.20 | abrotman | jeesus |
| 13:14.22 | babilen | !tell Rosenzweig|Deb -about tum |
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| 13:15.01 | cwickert | how do I apply a patch when I build a package? I put it into debian/patches and added "include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make" to debian/rules, however it does not get applied. what am I missing? |
| 13:15.18 | N0tch | themill: this has been going on for a long time... i can understand non-security updates lagging changelogs, but SECURITY updates should REALLY have real-time immediately-available end-user changelogs |
| 13:15.22 | babilen | Rosenzweig|Deb: And listen to abrotman -- It is quite hard to follow you and I would advise you to read "/msg dpkg enter" along with "/msg dpkg sid upgrade test" ;) |
| 13:15.41 | themill | N0tch: the DSA for this one is still being processed by mailer daemons... get a grip |
| 13:15.48 | N0tch | The requested URL /changelogs/pool/main/i/isc-dhcp/isc-dhcp_4.1.1-P1-15+squeeze4/ was not found on this server. |
| 13:16.22 | *** join/#debian Andatr (~kvirc@193.104.181.233) |
| 13:16.22 | themill | N0tch: also, the packages.d.o website is insanely complex and needs people to help look after it. Please consider joining the debian-www mailing list and helping out |
| 13:16.29 | Andatr | hi there |
| 13:16.36 | Andatr | plz help with apt-get |
| 13:16.40 | bartus | hello, I have a major problem with multiarch feature. When trying to install wine:i386 in amd64 machine apt-get stuck on libsasl2-2:i386 which this error from dpkg: "trying to overwrite shared '/usr/share/doc/libsasl2-2/changelog.Debian.gz', which is different from other instances of package libsasl2-2:i386" |
| 13:16.46 | N0tch | themill: well there where can i get the appropriate current changelog? |
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| 13:17.29 | babilen | bartus: Report a bug and (optionally) move that file. Thanks for testing Debian and sorting out bugs .. |
| 13:17.30 | Andatr | when i've try to install python2.7-setuptools, i've get the message: "Package python2.7-setuptools has no installation candidate" |
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| 13:17.45 | themill | N0tch: it's in the package; aptitude download isc-dhcp-client |
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| 13:17.49 | Andatr | and "You should explicitly pselect one to install." |
| 13:17.50 | babilen | !tell Andatr -about bat |
| 13:18.02 | Rosenzweig|Deb | babilen, I just like short declarative sentences when I type on IRC. |
| 13:18.34 | N0tch | !tell N0tch -about bat |
| 13:18.55 | themill | N0tch: "apt-listchanges --all --which=changelogs isc-dhcp-client_*.deb" (or you can use dpkg --fsys-tarfile and tar and dpkg-parsechangelog to see only the last entry) |
| 13:19.15 | babilen | N0tch: "/msg dpkg bat" and "/msg dpkg selftell" -- No need to do that publicly as you can just communicate with the bots (dpkg, judd) in private. Please also read "/msg dpkg dpkgbot" |
| 13:19.17 | bartus | babilen, ok i will report this as a bag to libsasl maintainers, thanks. |
| 13:19.25 | babilen | bartus: ta |
| 13:19.31 | Andatr | thx, i'll try |
| 13:19.32 | babilen | s/bag/bug ;) |
| 13:19.43 | abrotman | Rosenzweig|Deb: try punctuation instead :) |
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| 13:19.55 | Rosenzweig|Deb | It is punctuated. |
| 13:20.18 | Rosenzweig|Deb | It's not like I just leave sentences not punctuated. I simply do not put multiple sentences into a single IRC post. Well, not usually at least. |
| 13:20.36 | bartus | babilen, i must be thinking about something else ;] |
| 13:20.37 | N0tch | themill: is there 'guaranteed' to be a changelog in the .deb ? Because I don't see one in /DEBIAN/ |
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| 13:21.12 | N0tch | themill: nevermind found it |
| 13:21.41 | themill | N0tch: packages that depend on another package from the same source package may symlink /usr/share/doc/$package; that practice is discouraged. |
| 13:22.11 | *** join/#debian uscher (~uscher@201.217.23.110) |
| 13:22.15 | uscher | hi |
| 13:22.24 | uscher | i have an ask |
| 13:22.42 | peterrooney | !ask |
| 13:22.42 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 13:24.01 | uscher | i have a problem with partitioning from a multupath /dev/mapper/mpathg 2.5TB |
| 13:24.21 | *** join/#debian Twinkletoes_ (~chatzilla@62.189.63.226) |
| 13:24.36 | uscher | multipath... thi can not take all size of device... only take 480GB |
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| 13:24.45 | zeks2 | I have problem with apache under debian, when i have userdir of apache user in /var/www it opens hes files normaly, when they are placed in /home/user/public_html it opens them like download, it dont work to open their files, what is the problem ? |
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| 13:25.13 | uscher | permits |
| 13:25.22 | N0tch | Is there a way to 'inspect' a process by it's id reported from `ps` ? Like, open files, sockets, whatever? |
| 13:25.36 | uscher | access to foder Zeks2 |
| 13:25.45 | kwork | N0tch: lsof |
| 13:25.46 | Twinkletoes_ | The debian page here (http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/pureftp.htm) gives the command, 'useradd -g ftpgroup -d /dev/null -s /etc ftpuser'. Is this correct, as it sets the ftpuser's shell as /etc |
| 13:26.11 | uscher | need permitions to www access tho piblic_html |
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| 13:27.51 | zeks2 | where to set up that permission since i have all in userdir.conf in mods enabled ? |
| 13:27.52 | *** join/#debian Losowski (~Galicja@80.50.231.58) |
| 13:27.58 | zeks2 | i also did chmod -R 777 public_html |
| 13:28.24 | babilen | Twinkletoes: I would strongly recommend to read the README.Debian of pureftd and do not trust that "tutorial". That command does, in fact, look a bit dodgy ... You might also want to read "/msg dpkg ftpmustdie" |
| 13:28.46 | uscher | no 777 but include access to www user (nobody) |
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| 13:29.09 | Twinkletoes | babilen: Thanks for that - and don't worry, it won't be plain ftp, minimum=ftps, preferred=sftp |
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| 13:29.14 | zeks2 | aha, and how to do that? www-data 2124 0.0 0.0 318024 7684 ? S 18:22 0:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start |
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| 13:29.55 | uscher | try configure into webmin |
| 13:30.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1249] by debhelper |
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| 13:30.22 | babilen | uscher: mod_userdir is enabled? (use a2enmod as normally) |
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| 13:30.33 | boudiccas | uscher: webmin?urgh yuk! |
| 13:30.44 | *** part/#debian tdrusk (~tyler@mail.andersonnetworks.com) |
| 13:30.44 | zeks2 | a2enmod userdir |
| 13:30.45 | zeks2 | Module userdir already enabled |
| 13:30.50 | babilen | zeks2: mod_userdir is enabled? (use a2enmod as normally) |
| 13:30.58 | zeks2 | yes it is ;) |
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| 13:31.04 | babilen | zeks2: What is a "hes" file? |
| 13:31.23 | zeks2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:31.29 | zeks2 | i tryed even test.php |
| 13:31.32 | zeks2 | or wordpress |
| 13:31.35 | zeks2 | not working |
| 13:31.39 | zeks2 | but no any kinda errors :( |
| 13:31.48 | zeks2 | i mean in log file |
| 13:31.54 | zeks2 | you know it only trying to download that file for me |
| 13:31.59 | boudiccas | enter |
| 13:32.07 | boudiccas | !enter |
| 13:32.07 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 13:32.25 | babilen | zeks2: What is a "hes" file (as per "... /var/www it opens hes files normaly ...") -- Is this specific to "hes" files (whatever that might be) -- It does sound as if you are experiencing problems with PHP though, is that correct? |
| 13:32.48 | Twinkletoes | babilen: Ha! - Not much here: http://pureftpd.sourceforge.net/README.Debian |
| 13:33.16 | *** part/#debian N0tch (~c7a71k@unaffiliated/3tatuk/x-8622781) |
| 13:33.46 | zeks2 | yes, it is only problems with php files |
| 13:33.52 | fasta | What's the best .mobi viewer there is? |
| 13:33.57 | babilen | !tell zeks2 -about php userdir |
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| 13:34.31 | *** part/#debian Ktaze (Ktaze@85-250-90-181.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 13:34.46 | fasta | Or, if that question is incomputable for you: what is a very good one? |
| 13:34.57 | zeks2 | thanks babilen i think i understand il try to fix |
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| 13:35.21 | babilen | Twinkletoes: hehe :-/ |
| 13:35.46 | Twinkletoes | babilen: I'll just correct the shell from /etc to /bin/false and send a message to the author |
| 13:36.31 | babilen | Twinkletoes: Yeah, but who knows what else is wrong. I would be quite surprised if that is actually needed (and not handled in pure-ftpd's postinst script), but who knows?! |
| 13:36.51 | Twinkletoes | babilen: I can confirm that pure-ftpd form teh debian repos doesn't create any groups or users |
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| 13:37.20 | zeks2 | babilen you are right, now this works ;)) |
| 13:37.25 | zeks2 | thanks a lot |
| 13:37.33 | babilen | zeks2: Wonderful :) |
| 13:37.33 | *** join/#debian N0tch (~c7a71k@unaffiliated/3tatuk/x-8622781) |
| 13:37.50 | uscher | #lvm |
| 13:38.06 | cwickert | sorry to ask the same question again, but how do I apply a patch when I build a package? I put it into debian/patches and added "include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make" to debian/rules, however it does not get applied. what am I missing? |
| 13:38.42 | babilen | Twinkletoes: Ah, just checked the tutorial and I am not surprised anymore. The group is merely used for users and not needed but the daemon at all .. |
| 13:38.43 | zeks2 | but babilen why they did that, because of some kinda security or ?is better for me to keep users with web sites in /var/www or in /home normaly ? |
| 13:39.03 | *** part/#debian jameswhite (~whitejs@odin.websages.com) |
| 13:39.17 | abrotman | that's your decision |
| 13:39.43 | N0tch | How should I determine what the purpose of this stray python process is that seems to start at login and runs indefinitely? |
| 13:40.00 | babilen | zeks2: Letting random users run php scripts might be seen as a security risk. There are probably some mails in which this change was discussed in the archive though if you are interested. In the end it is your decision. |
| 13:41.40 | fasta | zeks2: what kind of users? |
| 13:41.58 | fasta | zeks2: general people you don't know who can access it via TCP/IP? |
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| 13:42.39 | zeks2 | well i am asking if i give shell to someone or something like that, maybe best to separate sites to /var/www and normal users to /home ? |
| 13:42.47 | zeks2 | because of that security risk |
| 13:42.48 | BotaniCar|2 | I have a MBO with 'Atheros GbE LAN chip (10/100/1000 Mbit)' , debian installer does not recognise it and offers a menu to choose a alternate driver from, which one should i pick ? |
| 13:43.14 | boudiccas | BotaniCar|2: mbo? |
| 13:43.16 | fasta | zeks2: the problem with a shell is only that local access can be turned into root access. |
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| 13:43.34 | BotaniCar|2 | boudiccas: motherboard |
| 13:43.37 | fasta | zeks2: in an ideal world that wouldn't be possible ever. |
| 13:43.59 | zeks2 | yes, but with grsecurity and and NSAlinux integrated it would be hard to exploit it localy |
| 13:44.05 | fasta | zeks2: but if you know the person you are giving the shell too, there shouldn't be much of a problem; you can sue them if they hack you. |
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| 13:44.22 | zeks2 | Linux 2B2 3.2.23-grsec |
| 13:44.24 | *** join/#debian lxsameer (~lxsameer@unaffiliated/lxsameer) |
| 13:44.27 | zeks2 | yes, thats true ;) |
| 13:44.28 | fasta | zeks2: have you noticed that the real world is also 'insecure'? |
| 13:44.35 | zeks2 | yes ;) |
| 13:44.42 | zeks2 | but thats why we are making firewalls and securing kernel |
| 13:44.54 | fasta | zeks2: and certainly if you use grsec, I don't see anyone breaking into that. |
| 13:45.11 | zeks2 | i hear rummors that there are exploits, but noone proved |
| 13:45.22 | fasta | zeks2: if anyone happens to have hacked it, I would like to see proof of it. |
| 13:45.28 | zeks2 | me too |
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| 13:45.50 | fasta | zeks2: now, I must admit that I haven't actually checked the source of grsec, but only checked its ideas. |
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| 13:46.12 | fasta | zeks2: if it's implemented like they said, a hacked would have to come up with something entirely new. |
| 13:46.15 | fasta | hacker* |
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| 13:46.17 | zeks2 | if it would be so easy to brake in it it would be code in wild and we would know about it thanks to honeypots |
| 13:46.29 | fasta | zeks2: not necessarily. |
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| 13:46.32 | ratatata | nu |
| 13:46.42 | fasta | zeks2: you would likely only use such things for high value targets. |
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| 13:46.52 | cwickert | where can I ask questions about packaging debs? |
| 13:46.54 | fasta | zeks2: just like Stuxnet didn't spread everywhere. |
| 13:47.02 | fasta | cwickert: debian-mentor? |
| 13:47.08 | zeks2 | stuxnet is windows bot |
| 13:47.13 | fasta | cwickert: there is some channel like that. |
| 13:47.20 | fasta | !debian-mentor |
| 13:47.26 | fasta | !mentor |
| 13:47.27 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/ http://mentors.debian.net/ #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org. |
| 13:47.39 | boudiccas | cwickert: #debian-mentors over on irc.oftc.net |
| 13:48.00 | cwickert | boudiccas: thanks |
| 13:48.08 | fasta | zeks2: I think Linux security currently is only possible for really advanced users. |
| 13:48.24 | fasta | zeks2: e.g. Qubes OS ;) |
| 13:49.02 | Twinkletoes | How do join that debian mentors channel? It's invite ionly |
| 13:49.07 | themill | Twinkletoes: wrong network |
| 13:49.28 | fasta | But there is quite good documentation on creating a Debian package. |
| 13:49.35 | Twinkletoes | themill: Ah, ok. And I've just realised, a debian maintainer isn't one who maintains debian systems in the workplace. silly me! |
| 13:49.38 | fasta | Alternatively, you can use the checkinstall program. |
| 13:49.45 | fasta | Then it is built automatically. |
| 13:49.48 | fasta | \o/ |
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| 13:50.12 | zeks2 | how you mean fasta, i think it is not hard to be secured anymore on linux |
| 13:50.13 | zeks2 | it was ages ago |
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| 13:50.39 | *** part/#debian cwickert (~chris@fedora/cwickert) |
| 13:50.47 | fasta | zeks2: what I would want: restrict my mp3 player from looking in any directory besides the directory containing mp3 files. |
| 13:51.05 | fasta | zeks2: my browser shouldn't be able to read from anywhere outside its cache directory. |
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| 13:51.21 | fasta | zeks2: it should only be able to write in directory Downloads. |
| 13:51.24 | fasta | zeks2: and so on. |
| 13:51.40 | fasta | zeks2: those things require very undocumented systems to configure now. |
| 13:51.51 | fasta | zeks2: it could be really easy to configure those things. |
| 13:51.53 | Iridos | so you don't like runtime libraries |
| 13:51.54 | fasta | zeks2: but it is not. |
| 13:52.16 | fasta | Iridos: ? |
| 13:52.25 | zeks2 | thats true ;) |
| 13:52.28 | Iridos | <fasta> zeks2: my browser shouldn't be able to read from anywhere outside its cache directory. |
| 13:52.49 | Iridos | means you can't have runtime libraries |
| 13:53.02 | Iridos | or configuration files |
| 13:53.10 | fasta | Iridos: there is no need for it to have runtime libraries. |
| 13:53.26 | fasta | Iridos: but regarding configuration files, you are now just picking on details. |
| 13:53.34 | fasta | Iridos: you know exactly what I mean, no? |
| 13:53.35 | Iridos | there's no need to breathe either, if you think death is a viable option |
| 13:54.02 | fasta | Iridos: can you explain why you say such things which are only designed to annoy? |
| 13:54.14 | Iridos | well, if you can for what you said :) |
| 13:54.20 | Iridos | I'd then give it a try... |
| 13:54.43 | fasta | Iridos: I think it's very reasonable for it to be easily possible to configure what a user wants. |
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| 13:55.08 | fasta | Iridos: and I think it should even do these things by default. |
| 13:55.11 | Iridos | ok, let me phrase it differently... I kind of see what you mean, but you haven't thought this through and what you think a good idea is in parts hugely unrealistic and not even what anyone would want |
| 13:55.27 | Iridos | s/even // |
| 13:55.33 | fasta | Iridos: please explain why a web browser should be able to look in my photos directory. |
| 13:55.46 | fasta | Iridos: there is no need, and yet it is shipped as such that it can. |
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| 13:56.05 | fasta | Iridos: it is not hugely unrealistic since Qubes OS already does it. |
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| 13:56.16 | Iridos | a) I never said it should read THOSE files, if you look at my "annoying comments" up there and b) you might want to upload them |
| 13:56.38 | Iridos | anyway, I think we are/are getting offtopic for #debian with this |
| 13:56.56 | fasta | Iridos: you are again talking in details. |
| 13:57.15 | mallxs | if i have a class that uses functions with callbacks .. can i set those callbacks in the class and how should i prefix them ? |
| 13:57.19 | fasta | Iridos: do you at least agree that some mechanism which is more usable than what is currently available would be welcome? |
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| 13:57.38 | fasta | Iridos: currently available would include SELinux and AppArmor. |
| 13:57.57 | rsr | hello |
| 13:57.58 | Iridos | do you agree that we're offtopic with this on #debian and should move it to #d-offtopic? |
| 13:58.03 | fasta | Iridos: yes |
| 13:58.19 | babilen | ack |
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| 13:58.26 | mallxs | Oops sorry worng channel |
| 13:58.45 | fasta | Iridos: I am still banned there. My ban should have been lifted already. |
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| 13:59.21 | Iridos | ha |
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| 13:59.54 | fasta | Iridos: #notdebianofftopic then? |
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| 14:00.30 | themill | bans don't just get lifted automatically, and the more often you piss people off and get banned, the longer they tend to stay around |
| 14:00.54 | fasta | themill: if it's communicated to me that it will be lifted in X hours. |
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| 14:01.01 | fasta | themill: then I expect it will be. |
| 14:01.07 | day | ioi |
| 14:01.33 | day | sounded more like i "demand" |
| 14:01.34 | fasta | themill: and I would expect admins to have scripts to do those things. |
| 14:01.50 | Iridos | I should work anyway... so mabbe time I drop it... well, one closing sentence from me... it'd be nice to be able to jail at least _some_ applications I don't trust more easily |
| 14:01.54 | themill | they do. and they routinely remove the timeouts when it would seem futile to remove them |
| 14:01.56 | day | maybe not get banned in the firstplace? |
| 14:02.19 | fasta | day: please stop talking before I add you to my ignore list. |
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| 14:03.25 | fasta | No, I will add you anyway. I don't want to have anything to do with people like you. |
| 14:03.25 | day | fasta: you seem to be banned most of the time. idc |
| 14:03.33 | geekbri | irc bans are serious business. |
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| 14:19.03 | wkhan113 | Hi, what is the command to see all the packages installed in a debian system? Much like Add/Remove programes in Windows but instead a complete list of every software/package installed on the system. Thanks |
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| 14:19.46 | SPF | wkhan113: dpkg -l |
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| 14:21.28 | themill | wkhan113: «aptitude search ~i» or «aptitude search '~i!~M'» (the latter only shows you manually installed packages) |
| 14:21.31 | wkhan113 | SPF: Thanks, I did this, there are many packages begining with 'lib', what does that stand for and what are these packages? |
| 14:21.50 | caf | lib is short for library |
| 14:22.35 | wkhan113 | kewl, what do library packages do, are they special or just the same as something like 'kate'? |
| 14:22.41 | caf | a library is a bundle of code that's used by other programs, but isn't a complete program itself |
| 14:23.06 | javierHund | it can also be a large building with a lot of books |
| 14:23.24 | wkhan113 | javierHund: HAHA |
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| 14:23.42 | caf | the lib* packages you've got installed are likely all there because at least one other program you have installed needs them to run |
| 14:23.42 | Arafangion | Sometimes not all that many books. |
| 14:23.54 | wkhan113 | I was talking about the ones in Debian. lol |
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| 14:24.22 | javierHund | wkhan113: debian prefers using the more pc-aproach to counting data i guess |
| 14:24.34 | wkhan113 | So what does this mean? ii libapm1 3.2.2-14 Library for interacting with APM driver in kerneln |
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| 14:25.16 | themill | wkhan113: you can probably ignore all library packages on your machine; apt will deal with them automatically. |
| 14:25.22 | wkhan113 | Are library files same as DLL files in Windows, sorry for bringing up Windows again, im a noob |
| 14:25.48 | caf | very similar, yes |
| 14:25.56 | caf | the last L in DLL actually stands for "library" |
| 14:26.15 | kesroesweyth | I'm trying to learn to use w3m and apparently I did something that caused the process to seem to hang. I hit control+z and see it in jobs as [1]+ Stopped, but when I run kill %1, it doesn't go away. What am I doing wrong? |
| 14:26.27 | pparadis | dynamic link *library* |
| 14:26.48 | wkhan113 | Kewl. I have installed KDE, I thought it looks good. But I decided I dont like it. How do I completely remove all KDE stuff and install Gnome? |
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| 14:27.34 | kesroesweyth | Hm. I typed fg and brought it back and now it seems to have disappeared. :) |
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| 14:27.58 | boudiccas | wkhan113: why do you want to delete kde? you can still use some of its program under gnome |
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| 14:29.50 | wkhan113 | It freezes and Ive tried Gnome before. There are a lot of packages there that start with K, like Kmail KDM etc. Is there a way to remove them all without having to remove one at a time |
| 14:30.07 | grandie | have a heart rate monitor program that requires windows, what are my best options? |
| 14:30.18 | boudiccas | wkhan113: sudo \pt-get remove kde ..... good luck! :) |
| 14:30.31 | boudiccas | apt-get |
| 14:30.47 | wkhan113 | Thanks =) |
| 14:31.01 | boudiccas | wkhan113: but install gnome first |
| 14:31.37 | wkhan113 | Oh, so I can't remove KDE and after install Gnone? |
| 14:31.43 | wkhan113 | Gnome* |
| 14:31.52 | day | ofc you can |
| 14:31.53 | fasta | I have just read that "only imbeciles and morons would run NFS on Linux". Why is that? |
| 14:32.02 | fasta | (This is a quote from a published book.) |
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| 14:32.49 | day | wkhan113: kde is just a package...remove it when ever you like. but live with the consequences |
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| 14:33.20 | fasta | wkhan113: KDE can work great, but you have to disable the indexing service. |
| 14:33.29 | fasta | wkhan113: and you have to run at least version 4.8. |
| 14:33.41 | fasta | wkhan113: any other version is really bad. |
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| 14:34.02 | wkhan113 | day: Ok so ill boot into text mode by doing update-rc kdm remove. Then can I remove kde and install gnome that way. Obviously I cant remove while using it |
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| 14:34.30 | nvz | wkhan113: Of course you can remove it while using it |
| 14:34.31 | fasta | wkhan113: you can remove it while using it. |
| 14:34.40 | fasta | wkhan113: it's not Windows. |
| 14:34.45 | nvz | this isn't windows, its linux.. it works properly |
| 14:34.50 | fasta | wkhan113: files are loaded into RAM. |
| 14:34.54 | wkhan113 | How is that? |
| 14:34.56 | day | wkhan113: its linux you can even delete the whole system while using it :D |
| 14:34.58 | wkhan113 | Oh RAM kewl |
| 14:34.59 | nvz | hmm.. we're on the same wavelength.. heh |
| 14:35.09 | fasta | wkhan113: so, if you then want to delete those files, then it's not going to stop you. |
| 14:35.21 | fasta | wkhan113: I think everyone hates it that Windows thinks otherwise. |
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| 14:36.07 | wkhan113 | So you would recommend I keep kde? Or is Gnome better? |
| 14:36.08 | fasta | At some point I even wrote a program to really delete a file on Windows. |
| 14:36.12 | nvz | I think its simpler to list the things I don't hate about windows.. its a shorter list... [pauses as though he's gonna list something] |
| 14:36.22 | fasta | wkhan113: at least version 4.8. |
| 14:36.35 | wkhan113 | Whats so bad about WIndows lol |
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| 14:36.41 | fasta | wkhan113: otherwise run xfce. |
| 14:36.52 | fasta | wkhan113: Gnome3 is quite bad, imho. |
| 14:37.04 | dkr | fasta: anyone can publish a book nowadays |
| 14:37.04 | nvz | wkhan113: seriously? you don't have enough time for that discussion and its way off topic here |
| 14:37.05 | fasta | wkhan113: scrap that, it's not a humble opinion. |
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| 14:37.41 | fasta | wkhan113: or just try all of them. |
| 14:37.46 | Twinkletoes | I'm rapidly losing faith with pure-ftpd |
| 14:37.54 | fasta | wkhan113: you can easily install all of them. |
| 14:37.59 | dkr | fasta: nfs isn't perfect, but it can certainly fulfill a useful role |
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| 14:38.04 | Twinkletoes | limited documentation resource, and it just doesn't work out of the box :( |
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| 14:38.09 | wkhan113 | I heard a lot about how its bad, is it the fact that its not open-source and bad security? |
| 14:38.15 | fasta | dkr: that doesn't answer the question. Does it? |
| 14:38.21 | nvz | Twinkletoes: well its an ftpd.. what do you expect.. why not use finger, gopher, and all the other archaic protocols too? heh |
| 14:38.33 | pparadis | nvz: you forgot telnet. |
| 14:38.50 | nvz | ah good ol telnet |
| 14:38.53 | fasta | nvz: why don't you just assume that there are valid uses for ftp? |
| 14:38.53 | Twinkletoes | nvz: Because there is a business requirement |
| 14:38.59 | dkr | fasta: the assertion is false. so "why?" is irrelevant |
| 14:39.08 | pparadis | fasta: probably because there are very few valid uses left for ftp. |
| 14:39.11 | Twinkletoes | nvz: I don't want plain old ftp, it will be at least ftps, and hopefully puersuade everyone to use sftp |
| 14:39.14 | fasta | Twinkletoes: I find it just as annoying as you that people come with such responses. |
| 14:39.17 | ansgar | Twinkletoes: Using broken software is a requirement? ;) |
| 14:39.28 | pparadis | nods at Twinkletoes |
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| 14:39.39 | Twinkletoes | pure-ftpd is broken>? |
| 14:39.46 | Twinkletoes | fasta: yeah :( |
| 14:39.54 | Calinou | <wkhan113> So you would recommend I keep kde? Or is Gnome better? |
| 14:39.59 | fasta | pparadis: ok, so you suggest that I buy a new 1000 euro printer, because my printer doesn't support encryption internally? |
| 14:39.59 | Calinou | none of them; Xfce :D |
| 14:40.06 | Calinou | <fasta> wkhan113: Gnome3 is quite bad, imho. < +1 |
| 14:40.11 | fasta | pparadis: that's just a great idea, considering that it is for an internal network. |
| 14:40.15 | pparadis | fasta: note the nod above, and you really don't want to start this conversation. |
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| 14:40.55 | Calinou | FTP is still used a lot today, pparadis |
| 14:40.57 | fasta | pparadis: I don't see why not. |
| 14:41.05 | fasta | pparadis: because I can perfectly defend my position. |
| 14:41.07 | pparadis | fasta: the nod being where i noted that Twinkletoes seems to be quite aware of the pros and cons of what he's doing. |
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| 14:41.11 | Calinou | pretty much all hosters use it so that you upload your site, no? |
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| 14:41.19 | pparadis | Calinou: uh, no. |
| 14:41.31 | Twinkletoes | pparadis: I knew what you meant :) |
| 14:41.37 | pparadis | Twinkletoes: :)( |
| 14:41.38 | themill | Calinou: none that I would give money to |
| 14:41.39 | pparadis | :) rather |
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| 14:41.42 | Calinou | or, is sftp/ftps just "FTP using SSL"? or a totally different protocol? does it also begin with ftp://? |
| 14:41.50 | pparadis | sigh |
| 14:42.00 | nvz | Calinou: its ssh |
| 14:42.02 | somiaj | Calinou: it is used way more than it should be...mostly because they want to please their clients who don't understand how to use sftp/ssh |
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| 14:42.16 | Calinou | leaves the paranoid world |
| 14:42.37 | pparadis | somiaj: which is really funny, considering that it's difficult to find any "ftp" GUI clients these days that don't support sftp out of the box. |
| 14:42.44 | pparadis | but anyhow, meh, not my problem. |
| 14:42.46 | Twinkletoes | Calinou: FTPS (explicit) uses ssl during authentication |
| 14:42.53 | Twinkletoes | Calinou: SFTP uses ssh |
| 14:42.59 | pparadis | nod |
| 14:43.04 | nvz | Calinou: just cause you're paranoid doesnt mean there aren't 12 year olds on summer vacation who have laptops and wifi access, with way too much time on their hands |
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| 14:43.31 | Twinkletoes | Let me ask a differernt question... I want a small, secure FTP server that can handle virtual users. Any ideas? |
| 14:43.38 | fasta | Notice that this whole 'discussion' where every participant already understands completely what it is about was started by nvz. |
| 14:43.42 | tharkun | nvz: not around here, we make barbecue out of them or give them something productive to do :-) |
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| 14:44.04 | somiaj | Twinkletoes: ftp and secure dont go hand in hand. Just use ssh |
| 14:44.21 | Calinou | " considering that it's difficult to find any "ftp" GUI clients these days that don't support sftp out of the box." linux community success again :p |
| 14:44.22 | pparadis | Twinkletoes: the virtual users angle is a particular case where you really are going to be better off using ftps... there are some hacky ways to use pam to support virtual user authentication to sshd, but yeah, they're hacky. |
| 14:44.29 | Twinkletoes | somiaj: I have a business requirement. I need to be able to provide, regardless of hwo crap it is |
| 14:44.32 | fasta | Debian, ssh and secure also don't go hand in hand. ;) |
| 14:44.32 | Calinou | ssh isn't for uploading a website/whatever, at all... you have to use wget every time |
| 14:44.44 | Twinkletoes | looks at vsftpd |
| 14:44.48 | Calinou | fasta, then go write a new protcol which is secure for you? |
| 14:44.52 | Calinou | if everything sucks |
| 14:44.54 | pparadis | Twinkletoes: if you *have* to use virtual users, that is. if you're able to use real user accounts, you can jail and do sftp only and all sorts of other stuff all day long. |
| 14:44.59 | fasta | Calinou: you didn't quite get the joke, |
| 14:45.03 | somiaj | Twinkletoes: then pick a ftp server you like, proftpd is one that pops into my mind. There are lots of ftp options just dont' expect security. |
| 14:45.43 | fasta | pparadis: what do you mean by 'jail' on Linux? |
| 14:45.45 | pparadis | Calinou: what the heck are you talking about with uploading and wget and what? |
| 14:45.51 | Twinkletoes | somiaj: I'm happy that if a customer cannot, or will not, use SFTP, then it's their problem, but I have to provide the functionality for them anyway |
| 14:45.54 | tharkun | Discussing ftp for the sake of it I believe is a bit pointless and somewhat OT to keep it at this level. |
| 14:46.04 | Calinou | you're saying that ftp shouldn't be used, and instead everyone should use SSH. SSH is not for file uploading |
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| 14:46.08 | themill | searches in vain for a debian support aspect |
| 14:46.12 | Calinou | what do you do when you need to upload a website to a server/whatever? |
| 14:46.14 | tharkun | In a nutshell people lets get over it. |
| 14:46.25 | themill | Calinou: sftp and scp use ssh |
| 14:46.39 | somiaj | Calinou: I use ssh just fine. I use scp or rsync over ssh, but you can use most moder ftp clients over ssh to. |
| 14:46.42 | pparadis | fasta: well, chroot is the proper term on linux (jail being the bsd [and honestly better] side), but modern openssh includes facilities for specifiying users as sftp only, chrooting, etc. |
| 14:46.55 | fasta | pparadis: chroot adds no security on Linux. |
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| 14:47.17 | Calinou | security discussion going on again |
| 14:47.22 | pparadis | fasta: sigh. you're just going to sit here and regurgitate things others have told you as generalisms, aren't you? |
| 14:47.23 | karl_k | hi, i try to start a bash script with some zenity-gui from anacron and have problems with DISPLAY, XAUTHORITY and else, whats the proper way to start a X application on user A's Desktop via cron ? |
| 14:47.30 | fasta | pparadis: and as such has nothing to do with jails. |
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| 14:47.37 | fasta | pparadis: I am quoting from Linux kernel developers. |
| 14:47.41 | pparadis | fasta: how old are you? |
| 14:47.48 | fasta | pparadis: you are welcome to say anything, but you would just be wrong. |
| 14:47.51 | pparadis | and yes, it matters. |
| 14:48.05 | fasta | pparadis: I am not the one making incorrect statements. |
| 14:48.15 | pparadis | .... right |
| 14:48.28 | themill | fasta: quit arguing for the sake of it will you |
| 14:48.30 | fasta | pparadis: again, I have Linux kernel developers who say I am right. |
| 14:48.37 | fasta | pparadis: who are you to say that you are? |
| 14:48.45 | pparadis | ignores fasta |
| 14:48.54 | fasta | Very convincing argument. |
| 14:48.57 | *** mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ |
| 14:49.08 | *** mode/#debian [+b $a fasta] by themill |
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| 14:49.21 | tharkun | fasta: once is fun, twice is anoying thrice asks for +q |
| 14:49.42 | Calinou | you are always right with linux developers. that is normal. :) |
| 14:49.58 | pparadis | needs another coffee |
| 14:50.07 | tharkun | seconds the motion |
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| 14:50.18 | karl_k | hi, i try to start a bash script with some zenity-gui from anacron and have problems with DISPLAY, XAUTHORITY and else, whats the proper way to start a X application on user A's Desktop via cron ? |
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| 14:50.29 | karl_k | just in case you missed my question.. :) |
| 14:50.55 | curfont | anyone who has used dovecot and sieve, what exactly is contained in the dovecot-sieve package? I cant find the configuration for it, all i find is pigeonhole sieve? |
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| 14:51.08 | curfont | on their wiki i mean |
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| 14:52.41 | tharkun | karl_k: your cron job should be set for the apropiate user and be sure to load the apropiate environment. Cron jobs do not load it by themselves. Further info @ #bash |
| 14:52.56 | tharkun | curfont: dpkg -L dovecot-sieve |
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| 14:53.49 | stealthii | Hi there. The article displayed at http://bit.ly/MZyLwJ suggests a shell script that imports packages from an incoming queue. There is a problem with running this script every 5 minutes. If the files are currently being uploaded when the script is called, it will import part packages (as the file has not finished uploading to the machine) |
| 14:54.25 | tharkun | curfont: beware there is to be a version upgrade on the next debian release and you might want to take a further look into it |
| 14:55.05 | stealthii | what is the best way of adding packages from an incoming directory to an apt repository? I'd ideally like to look at something like an inode listener, but it looks like you need to upload both changes and the deb files |
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| 15:03.30 | nsadmin | stealthii, look at dpkg-scanpackages |
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| 15:04.55 | stealthii | nsadmin: thanks. That's exactly what I need |
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| 15:05.43 | M0TRN_th1 | hi, is there a way I can have network-manager installed to control a wifi card but force it to keep its filthy hands off my ethernet cards? |
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| 15:07.23 | raz | man, it's hard to conceive how you could make the trainwreck that is grub even worse. yet debian did it. |
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| 15:10.46 | tharkun | raz: Do you have a debian question? |
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| 15:13.25 | raz | yes. where is the guide to make it bootable from a mdadm raid1. |
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| 15:14.53 | karl_k | raz: should work by default, just add the md device as root |
| 15:15.34 | raz | karl_k: i wish. it worked, then one disk failed, which was apparently the one that had the MBR that mattered. |
| 15:15.35 | karl_k | linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/root--vg-root--lv |
| 15:15.35 | karl_k | ro quiet |
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| 15:16.10 | raz | now i'm knee deep in contradicting tutorials to even get beyond grub just saying "File not found" not nothing else |
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| 15:16.36 | karl_k | ok, you need the mbr on both disks of the array. i sometimes stumble over my bios, have you made sure you selected the now single raid1 drive as boot drive ? |
| 15:16.41 | raz | grub-install /dev/sd*, dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc etc. naturally report no errors but don't fix anything either |
| 15:17.10 | raz | yes, the drive is recognized, grub just says 'file not found' |
| 15:17.25 | raz | apparently for softraid i need to perform additional gymnastics like these: http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-set-up-software-raid1-on-a-running-system-incl-grub2-configuration-debian-squeeze-p2 |
| 15:18.02 | raz | but i'm still trying to decipher that as it deals with 3 arrays instead of one, and doesn't use UUIDs (which seems like a bad idea to me, but perhaps that's the only way) etc. |
| 15:18.04 | karl_k | does grub-install include setup-grub ? |
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| 15:18.41 | raz | i don't know |
| 15:18.43 | sney | naturally since md raid is a linux kernel feature, the kernel needs to be loaded before the array is recognized |
| 15:18.56 | raz | grub-install /dev/sda just says "Installation finished. No error reported." |
| 15:19.12 | raz | (i'm booted into the box with "SuperGrub" USB stick) |
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| 15:19.37 | raz | setup-grub doesn't seem to exist as a separate command. neither does 'grub'. |
| 15:19.41 | sney | and supergrub hasn't taken /dev/sda for itself? that happens sometimes with usb boot devices |
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| 15:20.14 | raz | sney: no, the raid is up and running |
| 15:20.20 | raz | and /proc/mdadm shows sda |
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| 15:20.33 | raz | no idea how the stick does it, but it surprisingly seems to do the right thing and hide itself anyhow |
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| 15:20.48 | sney | and fdisk -l shows no surprises? |
| 15:20.51 | raz | i also see the right partition table with fdisk, it's definitely the right disk |
| 15:21.00 | raz | yup /dev/sda1 1 243201 1953512001 fd Linux raid autodetect |
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| 15:21.45 | lnxnt | hello |
| 15:21.56 | raz | i don't understand why grub doesn't by default perform sanity checks by default to ensure that whatever it did _will be bootable_. |
| 15:21.58 | sney | well, for md raid 1 you should be seeing 2+ identical /dev/sd* devices, and then the array itself as /dev/md* |
| 15:22.00 | raz | it must be possible |
| 15:22.26 | lnxnt | My screen dimms to often while I work. Where can I turn that off? as a destop environment I have xfce4 |
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| 15:22.36 | raz | sney: yes, having booted with the stick everything is fine, /dev/md0 is mounted on /, and /dev/md0 is a degraded array with /dev/sda1 remaining |
| 15:22.37 | karl_k | raz: you have no other drives in that computer you try to boot ? |
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| 15:22.56 | raz | karl_k: no more, i pulled them |
| 15:23.05 | karl_k | raz: happened to me that it tried to boot from an old disk which had grub-remnants on it, not from the disk i thought it would |
| 15:23.17 | raz | yes.. i've been through this crap a dozen times myself |
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| 15:23.37 | raz | i'm not expecting you to fix it for me (impossible over the internet), i'm just whining some |
| 15:24.01 | raz | this crap just shouldn't be this unreliable and random |
| 15:24.07 | karl_k | hmm, are you chrooted into the disk ? |
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| 15:24.37 | raz | karl_k: no, the stick just magically boots it as normal, i.e. the grub on that stick does detect the raid and find the kernel |
| 15:24.47 | raz | s/kernel/initrd/ .. or whatever it is that grub does |
| 15:25.19 | raz | perhaps i should just DD the mbr from the stick to the harddrive :P |
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| 15:26.07 | karl_k | or just leave the stick in... :) |
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| 15:26.32 | raz | yea i actually pondered using a boot-stick permanently since raid is always such a pita |
| 15:26.39 | raz | but haven't found a good guide to make that work in a half-sane way |
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| 15:27.10 | raz | i really miss LILO, for some reason that was always really easy to fix and would then just work. |
| 15:27.20 | sney | lilo is still available |
| 15:27.34 | sney | ,v lilo |
| 15:27.36 | judd | Package: lilo on i386 -- lenny: 1:22.8-7; squeeze: 1:22.8-10; sid: 1:23.2-4; wheezy: 1:23.2-4 |
| 15:27.36 | raz | yea, but probably not working anymore with all the fancy new things... |
| 15:27.45 | karl_k | you tried --recheck ? |
| 15:27.49 | sney | couldn't hurt to try it |
| 15:28.13 | raz | karl_k: on grub-install? |
| 15:28.23 | karl_k | have a look at your device map, it might be buggered ? |
| 15:28.25 | karl_k | yep |
| 15:28.54 | raz | --recheck does nothing (also says "No error reported") |
| 15:29.05 | raz | device map looks normal, has the disk in it |
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| 15:29.24 | karl_k | and it still does not boot ? |
| 15:29.27 | raz | i also haven't figured out what grub is trying to tell me when it says "File not found" without any information which file it means |
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| 15:30.02 | raz | karl_k: nope |
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| 15:32.27 | sney | "file not found" usually refers to the kernel |
| 15:32.46 | sney | so, grub itself is loading, but it can't find what it needs to boot your OS |
| 15:33.07 | raz | yes, or one of its "stages" or something |
| 15:33.11 | raz | i have no idea what that thing is doing |
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| 15:33.17 | raz | and it's not telling me |
| 15:33.32 | sney | so why not try lilo if you're more comfortable with it |
| 15:33.35 | M0TRN_th1 | raz, use LILO instead of GRUB with raid ... |
| 15:33.39 | M0TRN_th1 | about 50 times easier |
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| 15:34.07 | raz | does lilo work with 2T drives? |
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| 15:34.12 | raz | i haven't used it in like 5 years |
| 15:34.13 | M0TRN_th1 | yes |
| 15:34.24 | M0TRN_th1 | at least with 1.5T which is what I have |
| 15:34.49 | M0TRN_th1 | and it auto figures all the raid stuff more or less unaided |
| 15:34.52 | M0TRN_th1 | and just works .. |
| 15:34.54 | M0TRN_th1 | unlike grub |
| 15:35.04 | sney | the only size catch you'd see is with 3T+ |
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| 15:35.14 | M0TRN_th1 | not saying grub can't be made to work but it's much harder |
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| 15:35.43 | raz | hn |
| 15:35.44 | raz | hm |
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| 15:35.45 | raz | Fatal: Inconsistent Raid version information on /dev/md0 (RV=0.90 GAI=1.2) |
| 15:35.46 | karl_k | ok, i will ask once again: how do i get the location of userX's xauthority file ? |
| 15:35.47 | raz | that's what lilo says |
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| 15:36.17 | karl_k | raz: so you get the grub-menu right ? |
| 15:36.25 | raz | karl_k: no, it bombs out before that |
| 15:36.32 | raz | leaves me that famous grub-prompt with no help or hints whatsoever |
| 15:36.39 | M0TRN_th1 | raz, maybe you need to upgrade the raid superblocks |
| 15:38.52 | karl_k | if your stick can boot, so can your disk |
| 15:39.01 | themill | karl_k: gdm3 hides it somewhere in /var (I can't recall exactly where) and iirc it doesn't have a predictable name either. Other DMs normally use ~/.Xauthority. |
| 15:39.59 | karl_k | themill: thats exactly what i mean, its |
| 15:39.59 | karl_k | karl@probook-debian:~/scripts/backup$ echo $XAUTHORITY |
| 15:40.00 | karl_k | /var/run/gdm3/auth-for-karl-FxgeNd/database |
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| 15:40.21 | themill | lovely |
| 15:40.21 | karl_k | so i cant know the path, its in $XAUTHORITY, which i cant see |
| 15:41.29 | karl_k | ~/.Xauthority does not exist |
| 15:42.49 | karl_k | last resort: i link that file to ~/.Xauthority in a script that is run when the user logs in |
| 15:43.05 | karl_k | any idea what i could use? .bashrc maybe ? |
| 15:43.46 | themill | You could add "xauth extract - $DISPLAY > ~/.Xauthority" to your DEs login autostart stuff |
| 15:44.04 | themill | then it would be where you need it and be happy. But that's a hideous kludge. |
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| 15:44.49 | karl_k | you are thinking along the same lines as me, but i cant believe that there is no easy solution to this stupid: run X app on other users desktop |
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| 15:45.52 | Morten_ | Hello |
| 15:45.53 | M0TRN_th1 | what's like gdebi but for a system that doesn't have gnome? |
| 15:46.08 | M0TRN_th1 | that will look at a .deb and figure out its depends and install those and the deb |
| 15:46.25 | Morten_ | anybody know how to install debian squeeze if all versions fails? |
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| 15:46.42 | M0TRN_th1 | Morten_, what do you mean by that? |
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| 15:47.13 | Morten_ | been trying netinstall, cd and dvd but all end up saying that the dkpg.deb is corrupt |
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| 15:47.45 | themill | karl_k: I don't know if tools like sux handle gdm's interesting xauth location |
| 15:47.46 | M0TRN_th1 | Morten_, maybe there is something wrong with your computer. where did you get the installer image from? |
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| 15:48.07 | bigkitty | hi all |
| 15:48.07 | Morten_ | from the official site: http://www.debian.org/distrib/ |
| 15:48.13 | bigkitty | wow |
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| 15:48.32 | bigkitty | who build debian? |
| 15:48.38 | bigkitty | meow:) |
| 15:48.52 | M0TRN_th1 | Morten_, there's probably something wrong with your computer then. try running a memory test I think there is one on the debian install CD you can get from the boot menu |
| 15:48.59 | ksk | bigkitty: pardon? |
| 15:49.16 | bigkitty | ksk: i mean build debian from source:) from scratch:) |
| 15:49.21 | bigkitty | ksk: who did this? |
| 15:49.30 | M0TRN_th1 | bigkitty, the debian build servers |
| 15:49.33 | M0TRN_th1 | you can set up one yourself if you want |
| 15:49.39 | Morten_ | I will start it now then. But searching google leeds me to threads like http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?2,4323 where they too have the same problem |
| 15:49.42 | M0TRN_th1 | but it takes forever and takes topns of space |
| 15:49.54 | bigkitty | Morten_: dude, do u know lfs? |
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| 15:50.15 | Morten_ | nope I cant say that |
| 15:50.43 | bigkitty | Morten_: u are newbie:( |
| 15:50.45 | M0TRN_th1 | Morten_, what kind of computer are you installing on? |
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| 15:50.56 | M0TRN_th1 | bigkitty, stop that! |
| 15:51.07 | Morten_ | I am indeed, thats also why I ask for help :) |
| 15:51.31 | bigkitty | Morten_: wow, |
| 15:51.39 | Morten_ | Im installing it on a 32-bit machine |
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| 15:52.10 | M0TRN_th1 | Morten_, do you have the CD ISO image file you used still? |
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| 15:53.05 | Morten_ | yes I do have |
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| 15:54.20 | M0TRN_th1 | check the MD5 sum of the file you downloaded |
| 15:54.29 | M0TRN_th1 | and check it against the MD5SUMS file on the download site |
| 15:54.39 | Morten_ | Wait a minute |
| 15:54.41 | M0TRN_th1 | almost certainly though, there's something wrong with your computer |
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| 15:55.05 | bigkitty | M0TRN_th1: meow:) |
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| 15:55.46 | M0TRN_th1 | bigkitty, go play in the corner |
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| 15:57.19 | Morten_ | M0TRN_th1 do you know any tool which can do this on windows? |
| 15:57.54 | M0TRN_th1 | Morten_, google would suggest www.md5summer.org |
| 15:59.11 | Morten_ | M0TRN_th1 thx will take a look at it |
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| 16:02.33 | raz | ha! |
| 16:02.42 | karl_k | raz: tell us |
| 16:02.57 | raz | it's a bit embarrassing both for me and for grub |
| 16:03.36 | raz | i did actually still have another disk attached with a softraid on it (via e-sata, no idea how i could miss it tho) |
| 16:03.52 | raz | without the disk it now boots fine, but it seems there's no way to tell grub *which* raidset to boot from |
| 16:04.01 | raz | it just picks one randomly |
| 16:04.02 | karl_k | hehehe |
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| 16:04.26 | raz | googled grub uuid raid.. and all i get is "nu-uh" |
| 16:04.43 | surf | hi guys I dunno how to set a wifi connection with my lemote -> rtl8187B card. I tried also installing the rtl driver but nothing workd |
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| 16:06.51 | karl_k | raz: i dont think so, you tell it which kernel to boot in grub.cfg, and also the root-device |
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| 16:07.23 | raz | karl_k: yes.. but apparently at some point after the disk-failure it decided that the *other* raid should now be md/1 (apparently grub starts counting from 1..) |
| 16:07.50 | raz | perhaps it sees the primary raid is degraded and tries to be helpful... |
| 16:07.51 | raz | facepalms |
| 16:08.01 | karl_k | but thats not a problem as you boot from root=/dev/mapper/root--vg-root--lv |
| 16:08.12 | karl_k | and that mapping you can do via uuid |
| 16:08.21 | karl_k | s/can// |
| 16:08.23 | raz | hmm |
| 16:08.26 | raz | no mapper here |
| 16:08.30 | raz | i'm not using lvm if that's what you mean |
| 16:08.40 | karl_k | ah, sorry, yes |
| 16:08.53 | karl_k | but your md device has a uuid |
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| 16:09.00 | karl_k | cant you just supply that ? |
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| 16:09.13 | raz | yes i'm looking at http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2#Booting_from_RAID_Array right now |
| 16:09.20 | raz | it seems i might be able to put that in device.map |
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| 16:10.33 | karl_k | device.map uses names in my system |
| 16:10.44 | karl_k | (hd0)/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST9160823AS_5NK150NM |
| 16:11.03 | raz | yes.. apparently you can put by-uuid there |
| 16:11.15 | raz | but currently i don't understand why i get two different UUIDs for the following commands |
| 16:11.16 | raz | grub-probe -d --target=fs_uuid /dev/md0 |
| 16:11.21 | raz | mdadm -D /dev/md0 |
| 16:11.44 | karl_k | blkid ? |
| 16:11.49 | raz | the guide helpfully states: if those are not the same, manually fix it. |
| 16:11.54 | raz | blkid? :) |
| 16:12.10 | raz | blkid matches the one that grub-probe reports |
| 16:12.16 | karl_k | sudo blkid |
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| 16:12.45 | raz | hmm yes |
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| 16:12.54 | raz | but why does mdadm -D return a different uuid |
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| 16:13.51 | M0TRN_th1 | raz, because blkid returns the UUID of the *filesystem* on the device while mdadm returns the UUID of the array |
| 16:14.03 | raz | M0TRN_th1: ah! thx makes sense |
| 16:14.28 | raz | so in device.map i should probably have the array-uuid then |
| 16:14.55 | M0TRN_th1 | *shrug* I have no idea if grub can figure that out |
| 16:15.00 | raz | gosh man.. why can't i just give grub a list of UUIDs and tell it "TRY IN THAT ORDER, MKAY" |
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| 16:15.50 | raz | it's 2012, *booting* shouldn't be this hard anymore |
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| 16:16.05 | raz | shakes fist at whoever is responsible |
| 16:16.41 | karl_k | but hey, you got it sorted! :) |
| 16:16.42 | M0TRN_th1 | raz, that would be the god of things yet to be done |
| 16:16.44 | themill | raz: sending patches would be even bette r;) |
| 16:17.10 | raz | themill: i honestly think this is broken beyond repair |
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| 16:17.39 | karl_k | btw: sux is a wrapper around the standard su command which will transfer |
| 16:17.40 | karl_k | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:17.42 | raz | the only reason it still exists in this state is probably because nobody wants to touch these nasty parts anymore |
| 16:17.46 | karl_k | thats the wrong way round |
| 16:18.11 | M0TRN_th1 | command naming fail! |
| 16:18.14 | themill | raz: unlikely. |
| 16:19.14 | raz | themill: well, i'm convinced it doesn't have to be this nasty. all the machinery is in place, it would just need to show the slightest trace of sanity. |
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| 16:19.40 | themill | raz: sure. Both documentation and code improvements are necessary. It requires volunteers to make it happen. |
| 16:19.58 | themill | karl_k: you're wanting to run commands as another user on their DISPLAY. Sounds like the right sort of thing |
| 16:20.06 | raz | yea that's what i mean. grub is so awfully unsexy in every way that volunteers are probably rare. |
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| 16:21.32 | karl_k | but this transfers my credentials, which i do not have ! as i am ssh or cron |
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| 16:23.10 | peterrooney | You don't have enough money to make me work on grub. |
| 16:23.49 | raz | peterrooney: not so fast, i'd chip in $10 for one.. ;) |
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| 16:26.07 | themill | karl_k: you run that as the target user from their DISPLAY thus authorising different users |
| 16:27.37 | LittleFool | Hello, im writing a C programm for school. I need to close all files which i surely did but there is a file opened "/dev/pts/2" what does that do? Sorry if this doesnt belong here... |
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| 16:28.22 | M0TRN_th1 | LittleFool, it's the terminal you're running the command from. but ask in ##c |
| 16:28.30 | karl_k | themill: i just want to set up a cron-job that displays a zenity window, that does not work |
| 16:28.32 | peterrooney | LittleFool: probably belongs in ##linux, but it's standard out |
| 16:28.49 | LittleFool | okey thannks |
| 16:29.04 | peterrooney | LittleFool: SORRY, I meant standard error |
| 16:29.26 | themill | karl_k: I though you now had all the pieces required... you know the location of Xauthority or you can export it again yourself |
| 16:29.28 | M0TRN_th1 | peterrooney, you mean standard input, standard output, and standard error |
| 16:29.29 | peterrooney | things more coffee needed |
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| 16:31.41 | karl_k | themill: i dont know where userX's xauthority file is stored !! |
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| 16:32.30 | M0TRN_th1 | karl_k, look in the environment |
| 16:32.47 | karl_k | i cant look in someone elses environment |
| 16:32.50 | themill | karl_k: didn't sort that out? |
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| 16:33.35 | themill | karl_k: hang on ... you keep changing between this being from cron or ssh and this being done as a different user. Pick one and stick to it so we can work on this. |
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| 16:35.08 | karl_k | its the same thin: gdm3 stores the Xauth in /var/run/gdm3/auth-for-karl-FxgeNd/database |
| 16:35.15 | karl_k | so i dont know the path |
| 16:35.19 | raz | hmm |
| 16:35.44 | karl_k | when i ssh there i dont know the path, when i start via cron, i dont know the path |
| 16:35.45 | raz | why does my grub.conf have "set root='(md/1)'" when the only raid-array in the system is md0? |
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| 16:36.22 | themill | karl_k: why not? you just gave me the path |
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| 16:37.22 | karl_k | its stored in $XAUTHORITY, which is not set when you lok in via ssh or start a cronjob |
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| 16:37.50 | karl_k | and it changes on each X-login (thats the -FxgeND part) |
| 16:37.59 | themill | karl_k: that's what wildcards are for |
| 16:38.12 | karl_k | you cant ls /var/run/gdm3 |
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| 16:38.30 | karl_k | => ls, find and the like not working |
| 16:38.58 | karl_k | you need to know the exact path to access it |
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| 16:40.06 | themill | karl_k: I don't have gdm3 on any boxes to try this out to help you here. You can still xauth export from the login environment. |
| 16:40.29 | themill | s/export/extract/ |
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| 16:53.53 | fas3r | hello |
| 16:54.52 | fas3r | i have different fs (/var, /opt, /usr, /tmp and of course a dedicated / fs). How can I identify the file which are take spacing on the FS / (and exclude the others FS) ? |
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| 16:58.28 | peterrooney | fas3r: du -s /* /.* | sort -n |
| 17:00.45 | fas3r | hey hey thanks peterrooney |
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| 17:04.04 | abrotman | that won't limit it to the root filesystem, but i guess he'll get the idea |
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| 17:10.52 | BlitzHere | Well, I set lightDM up to autologin user into xfce. The problem is that I still get only a. |
| 17:10.59 | BlitzHere | Log out option |
| 17:11.12 | aether | mount --bind / /some/tmp/path && cd /some/tmp/path && du -s * | sort -n |
| 17:11.29 | BlitzHere | To shutdown, I have to log out first, followed by the shutdown option in lightDM |
| 17:12.22 | BlitzHere | How do I enable shutdown in xfce? Google doesn't help much here. All I learnt was to change from xdm to lightdm... |
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| 17:15.00 | aether | xl |
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| 17:19.02 | somiaj | BlitzHere: depends on what you mean by shutdown, I personally use 'sudo' and just shutdown my system, but if you want to be able to use the xfce features you probabaly need a dm that has them. Have you tried gdm? or anything else |
| 17:19.12 | somiaj | BlitzHere: there is also an xfce channel if you want more specific xfce info |
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| 17:20.15 | BlitzHere | somiaj: No CLI please, I have to set the comp up for someone else |
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| 17:21.14 | somiaj | BlitzHere: there are still multiple options, but you may get better help from an xfce channel. I'm sure their features to logout/shutdown/suppend the system are dependent on the display manager (since that is how it works in gnome) |
| 17:21.44 | BlitzHere | Yeah, and I posted in the xfce channel. Just seeing where I can get answers. I've been struggling with this all day... |
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| 17:22.15 | BlitzHere | somiaj: Thanks |
| 17:22.15 | somiaj | though you could just set up the user to be able to run the shutdown command with sudo and NOPASSWD, and then create a launcher that shuts it down for them. Then all they have to do is hit a button (might be more complicated if you wanted to put a confirm dialog to popup) |
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| 17:23.09 | somiaj | BlitzHere: funny I think I found your answer in the faq for xfce (first google hit) |
| 17:24.06 | somiaj | http://wiki.xfce.org/faq -- scroll down a bit, there is a binary xfce uses for all that, /usr/lib/xfce4/session/xfsm-shutdown-helper -- and you need to modify your suders file with visudo to allow your user to run that as root |
| 17:24.13 | somiaj | then their built in shutdown button should work |
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| 17:29.54 | BlitzHere | somiaj: I don't have it there. I saw that earlier today. Hold on, I will look around for that file. Probably is somewhere else... |
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| 17:30.19 | raz | meh |
| 17:30.40 | raz | why does in /dev/disk/by-uuid *only* my md0 show up, and not the individual drives? |
| 17:31.07 | somiaj | uuid is assoicated with the filestytem/partition not the drive I belive |
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| 17:31.22 | raz | ahh makes sense |
| 17:31.24 | somiaj | so it will only show the different filesystems/partions you have and not the drives |
| 17:31.29 | raz | so is should address drives by WWN? |
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| 17:31.44 | somiaj | out of my experience...(: |
| 17:31.58 | raz | i will do that. it will work. it must. i'm not giving up hope. |
| 17:32.02 | somiaj | BlitzHere: http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=xfsm-shutdown-helper&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any |
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| 17:33.37 | P4C0 | Hello, what's the best way to do a debian package? (it's php code so no compilation is needed), dpkg-deb --build or dpkg-buildpackage ? |
| 17:34.40 | somiaj | P4C0: have you read the debian matianers guide? |
| 17:35.11 | P4C0 | somiaj: yes |
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| 17:35.28 | somiaj | P4C0: I belive there is no best way, but it depends on what you are doing...you may also find #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net a good place to ask such questions. They have been helpful to me when I had packaging issues. |
| 17:35.54 | P4C0 | somiaj: thanks :) I'll try that |
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| 17:39.51 | rabies | hi, I'm trying to use debian 6.0 on vmware ESXi and I can ping servers fine, but I cant connect to repositories using apt for some reason |
| 17:39.56 | rabies | anyone know what might be causing this? |
| 17:40.24 | rabies | iptables isnt filtering anything |
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| 17:41.18 | somiaj | rabies: could it be the servers in your sources.list giving you issues (have you tried a different mirror)? |
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| 17:41.43 | rabies | somiaj, tried a few of'm, same problem. I'm using http.us.debian.org right now |
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| 17:42.02 | rabies | the weird part is that when i didnt use ESXi it worked fine |
| 17:42.05 | rabies | and i can even ping right now |
| 17:42.14 | rabies | and the DNS resolver seems to be working |
| 17:42.42 | rabies | oh ha, everything is resolving the same wrong address... |
| 17:43.01 | somiaj | so DNS issue then giving you the wrong IP? |
| 17:43.05 | rabies | yeah... |
| 17:43.09 | rabies | well that solves that mystery |
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| 17:44.35 | rabies | somiaj, thanks |
| 17:45.00 | somiaj | rabies: your welcome, but I think you figured it out yourself, just needed somewhere to vent a bit. (: |
| 17:45.09 | rabies | :) |
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| 17:45.57 | rabies | success! |
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| 17:46.21 | rabies | thank you VM and your virtual MAC addresses, lol |
| 17:47.25 | lnxnt | My screen darkens too soon when I don't work at the pc and I have no clue where to adjust |
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| 17:47.46 | BlitzHere | somiaj: Thanks, its here http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=wheezy&arch=i386&mode=path&searchon=contents&keywords=xfsm-shutdown-helper |
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| 17:48.31 | somiaj | lnxnt: look at xset. YOu can turn off the default blank screen saver with 'xset s off' thinking you are in x |
| 17:48.37 | somiaj | lnxnt: you can also set the timer with xset too |
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| 17:52.03 | simonlnu | or run xscreensaver and tweak it |
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| 17:55.02 | lnxnt | somiaj: wow thank you |
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| 17:57.49 | BlitzHere | somiaj: there doesn't appear to be a power group... |
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| 17:59.16 | Chetic | how can I change the ctrl+alt+f(1-12) bindings |
| 17:59.19 | Chetic | ? |
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| 18:06.39 | yesi | Hi. I've got a "fsck.ext4 -a -C9 /dev/sda5" after booting. So i can't mount the device /dev/sda5. Do you know why is does not do a complete check before rebooting, please ? and How could i monitor the job ? should i kill this process since it last about 1h... |
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| 18:06.56 | simonlnu | Chetic: the crtl-alt-F?? ones i wouldn't mess with, personally |
| 18:07.34 | simonlnu | Chetic: would be better, i think, to use alternate modifier keys |
| 18:07.44 | Chetic | what do you mean by modifier keys? |
| 18:07.55 | simonlnu | ctrl, alt, shift, mod4, etc. |
| 18:08.03 | Chetic | ah, right, but I don't have any F-keys |
| 18:08.33 | raz | ok, so the grub guys say my issues might go away if i put "set root=UUID=1234.." into grub.conf |
| 18:08.33 | BlitzHere | somiaj: so, I added a power group, and added myself to it |
| 18:08.34 | simonlnu | you don't have function keys? must be a tiny keyboard |
| 18:08.43 | Chetic | yeah that's exactly right :p |
| 18:08.47 | Chetic | kind of like a gamepad |
| 18:08.57 | raz | how do i convince the debian scripting to do that for me? |
| 18:09.00 | simonlnu | ok, so you want to emulate them |
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| 18:10.11 | simonlnu | hmm, could do layout switching, then get assign your "pseudo-F keys" to the other layout |
| 18:10.16 | simonlnu | s/get// |
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| 18:10.44 | stardiaries | hi guys, any idea what happened to java licenses? is java now dead forever on debian? |
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| 18:11.01 | simonlnu | you may have to make your own layout, if none exist |
| 18:11.18 | simonlnu | Chetic: ^^ |
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| 18:11.32 | simonlnu | stardiaries: um, install openjdk ? |
| 18:11.50 | bigkitty | wow |
| 18:11.51 | bigkitty | why there are so many dvds for debian? |
| 18:12.00 | bigkitty | http://iyanwu.com/pastebin/showthread.php?tid=1651 |
| 18:12.05 | stardiaries | simonlnu: it breaks some java app i need to connect to company network, only sun java 7 works |
| 18:12.12 | digdilem | bigkitty, because it has a lot. just download the netinst cd and install what you need |
| 18:12.16 | simonlnu | bigkitty: it's the entirety of debian squeeze |
| 18:12.55 | simonlnu | stardiaries: so use that. you're on your own there. sun java isn't in debian any more TMK |
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| 18:15.14 | stardiaries | should change to company with debian servers :P |
| 18:15.30 | Chetic | simonlnu: good tip! I'm on it! |
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| 18:15.46 | bigkitty | digdilem: dude, ubuntu has only one dvd, why debian have 8:( |
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| 18:16.05 | simonlnu | bigkitty: this isn't ubuntu ;) |
| 18:16.21 | digdilem | either you're being deliberately obtuse, bigkitty, or I'm beginning to think debian isn't for you |
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| 18:18.01 | raz | why the fk does update-grub put an UUID into my grub.conf of a drive that is not mentioned in fstab nor mounted |
| 18:18.17 | raz | i think i'm going to kill a kitten today |
| 18:18.20 | ngc0202 | GRUB installed on the wrong drive for me too |
| 18:18.32 | ngc0202 | I've been spending hours trying to fix it |
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| 18:19.20 | raz | it's mindnumbing... |
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| 18:19.47 | raz | it puts the UUID of /dev/md1 in there. which is not in fstab, nor mounted. where the heck is it getting that from. |
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| 18:20.22 | stardiaries | raz: update-grub never worked right for me, i always write grub.cfg by hand :S |
| 18:20.47 | ngc0202 | I thought GRUB was supposed to be the best |
| 18:20.51 | ngc0202 | why so much fail |
| 18:20.53 | raz | sigh.. guess i'll have to go there.. |
| 18:20.59 | raz | fail is an understatement :/ |
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| 18:22.02 | bigkitty | simonlnu: dude, why debian have so many dvds:( |
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| 18:22.42 | dvs | bigkitty: If you have an Internet connection, you only need the first one. |
| 18:23.22 | mech422 | Anyone else having problems with Wheezy DI installers for i386 (installs i686-pae kernel) ? I'm getting a ton of segfaults after install - 'update-grub' segfaults, etc etc |
| 18:23.35 | mech422 | checking Squeeze now to see if its hardware related |
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| 18:25.57 | BlitzHere | Hi, I'm trying to configure plymouth according to the instructions here http://wiki.debian.org/plymouth |
| 18:26.19 | BlitzHere | What is my nvidia binary drivers module name? |
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| 18:37.48 | Losowski | BlitzHere: run "lsmod" |
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| 18:38.24 | Losowski | If it was compiled as a module in the kernel, this lsmod will list your nivdia driver |
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| 18:41.28 | BlitzHere | Losowski: I see this. i2c_core used by drm,I2c_i801,nvidia |
| 18:41.55 | BlitzHere | And I see nvidia |
| 18:42.13 | raz | anyone have a clue why 'grub-probe --device /dev/md0 --target=fs_uuid' returns the same uuid for md0 and md1? |
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| 18:42.41 | BlitzHere | I suppose it's nvidia, but this makes no sense to me :P |
| 18:42.44 | simonlnu | you're typing your command wrong? |
| 18:43.24 | raz | me? |
| 18:43.48 | BlitzHere | simonlnu: ?? Those are the only relevant ones... |
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| 18:47.30 | BlitzHere | It works!! Thanks losowski |
| 18:47.32 | shred805 | hello doesnt anyone know the differences between Ubuntu and Debian squeeze regarding sound |
| 18:47.47 | shred805 | sound never works on a fresh install in debian for me |
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| 18:48.48 | stardiaries | apt-get install alsa-base alsa-utils |
| 18:48.54 | stardiaries | and make sure mixer volumes are all up |
| 18:48.57 | stardiaries | and unmuted |
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| 18:49.16 | shred805 | alsa is already installed |
| 18:49.17 | simonlnu | BlitzHere: not to you, it's ok |
| 18:49.17 | stardiaries | fresh install mutes the mixers by default! |
| 18:49.26 | shred805 | ok i will double check |
| 18:49.30 | shred805 | thank you |
| 18:49.34 | raz | ok, so looks like grub-probe is simply broken |
| 18:49.35 | raz | fuck that |
| 18:49.51 | stardiaries | just type alsamixer and press m for unmute "master" and "pcm" channels |
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| 18:50.20 | Losowski | BlitzHere: If you want further information on each module, type the command: modinfo nividia (in root) and it will tell you much more. Also, there are some options to that command for even more functions. |
| 18:51.26 | BlitzHere | Losowski: will do, thanks |
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| 18:52.06 | shred805 | I have a highly customized squeeze machine , how would I move all my GNOME settings/changes to a fresh install? |
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| 18:52.48 | shred805 | is it possible to replicate your current OS on a different architecture/hardware |
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| 18:53.05 | nkuttler | shred805: copy ~/ ? |
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| 18:54.06 | shred805 | nkuttler: everything is in my home directory? |
| 18:54.40 | valerie007_ | I want to install debian as a work station in a 64 bit processor (amd64) can you tell me which version to install and how to partition the hard disk |
| 18:54.59 | shred805 | debian squeeze |
| 18:55.04 | shred805 | is the stable version |
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| 18:55.49 | valerie007_ | but I thought wheezy was cooler, what is the difference?? |
| 18:55.54 | peterrooney | shred805: as far as OS is concerned, depends on how many packages are specific to either your old or new architecture. |
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| 18:56.37 | shred805 | valerie007_: what do you mean by cooler? |
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| 18:56.51 | ngc0202 | Quick question, how do you mount a drive again? xD |
| 18:56.51 | peterrooney | valerie007_: wheezy is currently in testing; squeeze is currently stable. |
| 18:56.54 | peterrooney | !pieces |
| 18:56.54 | dpkg | rumour has it, sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that, when it breaks you get to keep ALL the pieces!! |
| 18:56.57 | valerie007_ | gnome version looks better? |
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| 18:57.33 | abrotman | valerie007_: depends if you want gnome2 or gnome3 |
| 18:57.41 | shred805 | valerie007: if you like the new gnome, I persnally cant stand it |
| 18:57.42 | lnxnt | I realized my problem was not the screensaver |
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| 18:57.55 | lnxnt | the display just dimms down because of power management |
| 18:58.01 | lnxnt | how can I change that? |
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| 18:58.15 | shred805 | valerie007_: are you partitioning for dual boot? |
| 18:58.19 | zelrik | hi |
| 18:58.49 | Losowski | valerie007_: I'd go with the latest weekly 'testing' snapshot ow 'Wheezy', it's works beautifully here. I just installed it about one week ago. |
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| 18:59.30 | zelrik | is there a way for me to know the current version of the nvidia drivers in the latest debian release |
| 18:59.32 | zelrik | ? |
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| 18:59.48 | Losowski | zelrik: Yes...do this... |
| 18:59.55 | valerie007_ | Okay thanks. |
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| 19:00.43 | Losowski | zelrik: Well, first check out the nvidia webpage to see what the latest version is |
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| 19:01.08 | Losowski | then, in Debian, run apt-get showpkg drivername |
| 19:01.21 | Losowski | See what version it has listed in the output |
| 19:01.32 | zelrik | I dont use debian right now |
| 19:01.46 | Losowski | zelrik: What are you on? |
| 19:01.47 | zelrik | I am asking because of regressions in my current distro |
| 19:01.51 | zelrik | ubuntu |
| 19:01.52 | valerie007_ | May I have the link for wheezy? |
| 19:01.59 | Losowski | valerie007_: Sure..moment... |
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| 19:03.05 | Losowski | http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/ |
| 19:03.11 | dejuren | debhelper help |
| 19:03.15 | Losowski | Click on ico-cd |
| 19:03.21 | Losowski | *iso-cd |
| 19:03.38 | Losowski | zelrik: The same apt command will work in Ubuntu |
| 19:04.18 | Losowski | zelrik: Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian, keep that in mind |
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| 19:06.04 | zelrik | Losowski: I thought debian had typically older packages? |
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| 19:06.58 | ectospasm | zelrik: depends on which distribution you're talking about, stable, testing, unstable, experimental... |
| 19:07.04 | zelrik | ok |
| 19:07.12 | Losowski | exactly |
| 19:07.14 | zelrik | I am looking for something more stable right now |
| 19:07.19 | zelrik | I am fed up with regressions |
| 19:07.26 | ectospasm | then go with stable, codenamed "squeeze" |
| 19:07.29 | zelrik | ok |
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| 19:08.09 | ectospasm | once you get used to the system, you may find that you want to migrate to testing |
| 19:08.27 | ectospasm | ...but go with squeeze/stable first |
| 19:08.58 | hje841 | running 'ps ax' I get a process with the T process state code. How do I terminate that process when killall <appname> and kill <pid> doesn't work? |
| 19:08.59 | ectospasm | ...or, to save you *some* headache, wheezy (current testing) is frozen, and will become stable in the not so distant future |
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| 19:10.16 | cusco_ | hje841: kill -9 pid |
| 19:10.29 | ectospasm | hje841: check ps man page, T means the process is stopped. See "jobs" command |
| 19:10.36 | ectospasm | ...and "fg" command |
| 19:11.08 | ectospasm | hje841: open ps man page and look for "PROCESS STATE CODES" |
| 19:11.30 | hje841 | cusco_, thanks. now I can umount that folder which nano had a file open from |
| 19:11.40 | hje841 | ectospasm, been there |
| 19:12.34 | cusco_ | hje841: if nano is no longer using a file there, can'tyou unmount it now? |
| 19:12.38 | cusco_ | umount -l |
| 19:12.48 | cusco_ | or lazy option whatever it is |
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| 19:14.12 | ectospasm | too late, they left |
| 19:14.23 | ectospasm | I had already assumed he tried -9 |
| 19:14.28 | ectospasm | ...the KILL signal |
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| 19:15.21 | Losowski | ;) |
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| 19:16.54 | BlitzHere | I have an interesting issue. Plymouth works but I get the error startpar: service returned failure: Plymouth |
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| 19:17.48 | ectospasm | you can install Plymouth in debian? Why would you want to? |
| 19:17.50 | BlitzHere | I can't see anything going wrong though... |
| 19:18.19 | wkhan113 | Hi, When I try adjust the volume for my speakers, it comes up with this error: No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found. Its Gnome and the speakers are built into the monitor, How can I resolve this |
| 19:18.27 | BlitzHere | ectospasm: to set up the computer for someone who is scared by command line |
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| 19:19.02 | Iridos | what did the command line do to that person? |
| 19:19.02 | Losowski | wkhan113: alsamixer or pulseaudio adjustments |
| 19:19.46 | ectospasm | BlitzHere: they're all scared by the command line |
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| 19:20.43 | ectospasm | BlitzHere: where do you see the error? On the plymouth display? |
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| 19:21.32 | BlitzHere | Iridos: Nothing. Just ruined by windows :P |
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| 19:22.59 | BlitzHere | ectospasm: on the screen that Plymouth covers, at the end |
| 19:23.15 | ectospasm | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=616360 << BlitzHere |
| 19:25.05 | wkhan113 | Losowski: Alsamixer comes with this error: function snd_mixer_load failed: invaild arguement |
| 19:25.40 | BlitzHere | ectospasm: difference is, I'm using the nvidia driver, instead of nouveau, and I do get the splash screen. That's the weird part. It works. I can't see the error unless I press home, but it happens each time :P |
| 19:25.59 | Losowski | wkhan113: You ran plain "alsamixer"? |
| 19:26.27 | Losowski | Or is that error in the dmesg output? |
| 19:26.32 | BlitzHere | ectospasm: I could ignore it as I wouldn't be able to see it anyway, but was just curious |
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| 19:27.24 | wkhan113 | Yes. Not in dmesg. |
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| 19:27.41 | wkhan113 | How do I check if the drivers are installed? |
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| 19:28.34 | Losowski | wkhan113: There are drivers installed as 'modules', and others 'directly' included in the compilation |
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| 19:28.43 | Losowski | wkhan113: For now, run "lsmod" |
| 19:28.51 | Losowski | and look at the driver module output |
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| 19:29.33 | frikinz | Anyone suffering from screen corruption with fglrx? on sid |
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| 19:30.18 | wkhan113 | Lowsowski: Lsmod shows: http://pastebin.com/6pN7nGf3 |
| 19:30.26 | Losowski | frikinz: Can you describe the type of corruption? |
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| 19:31.21 | Losowski | wkhan113: Ok, and what driver to you want info on? |
| 19:31.48 | converge | hi, I have this script, but I dont know if what doing is the best way to do it. it's a script to config some information for postgres, can someone help me ? http://paste2.org/p/2083965 |
| 19:31.57 | wkhan113 | Losowski: I dont know! Im a noob |
| 19:33.44 | ectospasm | wkhan113: do you know what piece of hardware you want? You can look at "lspci -k" to tell you the kernel module for a particular piece of hardware, then "modinfo <module>" to find more information about it. |
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| 19:34.36 | ectospasm | well, "lspci -k" will tell you all of the devices + modules of all PCI/PCIe devices... |
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| 19:38.14 | wkhan113 | The module is snd_hda_intel. |
| 19:38.41 | wkhan113 | Thats what the sound card is running, how do I make the sound work? |
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| 19:40.10 | Losowski | wkhan113: So alsmixer didn't run at all? |
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| 19:44.44 | wkhan113 | Nope. It doesnt load. When I click on gnome alsa mixer. It says loading in the bottom panel but nothing happens |
| 19:45.30 | Losowski | Do you even have alsa installed? |
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| 19:45.42 | stardiaries | wkhan113: can you open a terminal and type alsamixer? |
| 19:45.52 | Losowski | stardiaries: That's what I've been suggesting |
| 19:47.18 | wkhan113 | That gives this error: cannot load mixer controls: Invalid argument. No you have not been suggesting that |
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| 19:47.44 | stardiaries | ok |
| 19:47.54 | stardiaries | can you try "sudo alsamixer" |
| 19:47.55 | frikinz | I'm not always reproducing this corruption. Meanwhile I'm fighting with dkms telling me dkms.conf not found but not telling me which module. I looked at dkms source and got scared :) |
| 19:48.26 | wkhan113 | stardiaries: Same error as before. |
| 19:49.01 | stardiaries | what does "lsmod | grep snd" show? |
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| 19:49.44 | stardiaries | also post output of "dpkg -l | grep alsa" |
| 19:49.51 | converge | what can I use to check disk integrity ? |
| 19:50.05 | wkhan113 | That shows: http://pastebin.com/2Wx9LqCy |
| 19:50.40 | Losowski | wkhan113: I did. Earlier, I type run "alsamixer". It's usually run on the CLI |
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| 19:51.24 | stardiaries | ok lsmod looks good |
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| 19:51.41 | stardiaries | and "dpkg -l | grep alsa" ? |
| 19:52.05 | wkhan113 | http://pastebin.com/eubhCvux |
| 19:52.24 | wkhan113 | Thats dpkg ^ |
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| 19:53.37 | stardiaries | hmmm, looks good to |
| 19:53.40 | wkhan113 | Lowowski: Ok I thought it was from menu => |
| 19:53.51 | stardiaries | dpkg is low level interface for .deb packages |
| 19:53.51 | dpkg | stardiaries: I wish you would RTFM. |
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| 19:54.44 | stardiaries | "lspci | grep -i audio" ? |
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| 19:56.11 | BlitzHere | Does software center work with debian? |
| 19:56.30 | BlitzHere | It doesn't get past li |
| 19:56.41 | BlitzHere | Loading file me |
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| 19:57.50 | BlitzHere | http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=wheezy&searchon=names&keywords=software-center |
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| 20:04.22 | Losowski | wkhan113: I did. Earlier, I type run "alsamixer". It's usually run on the CLI |
| 20:04.25 | Losowski | oops |
| 20:04.43 | Losowski | sorry, ignore that....was drinking tea and hit the key ;) |
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| 20:04.59 | Losowski | the 'repeat' ;) |
| 20:05.08 | stardiaries | hehe |
| 20:05.26 | stardiaries | maybe his soundcard is not supported yet |
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| 20:05.40 | stardiaries | need his "lspci | grep -i audio" output |
| 20:05.49 | BlitzHere | Has anyone been using ubuntu software center on debian? |
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| 20:06.30 | tdrusk | BlitzHere: software-center package? |
| 20:06.39 | BlitzHere | Yes |
| 20:06.46 | BlitzHere | tdrusk |
| 20:06.48 | Losowski | BlitzHere: Dump Ubuntu and move to the original: Debian |
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| 20:07.10 | tdrusk | BlitzHere: Yes, it works for me in squeeze. |
| 20:07.14 | BlitzHere | Losowski: I'm on debian |
| 20:07.25 | Losowski | Ah! |
| 20:07.34 | cedr | WHen does squeeze EOL? |
| 20:07.34 | tdrusk | Blitzhere: i have it open if you need me to test anything on my end |
| 20:07.39 | shred805 | the new ubuntu is garbage |
| 20:07.40 | cedr | or is there no set date yet? |
| 20:07.41 | BlitzHere | tdrusk: I'm on wheezy and can't get past loading |
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| 20:08.37 | tdrusk | BlitzHere: Sorry, not to be a pain, but this chat is for squeeze. try wheezy/sid: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) |
| 20:08.58 | tdrusk | you can't expect everything to work in testing :) |
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| 20:09.26 | Losowski | One issue which I experienced when initially installing Debian Wheezy (testing snapshot) was the prepackaged kernel is old, and it didn't recognize all sound drivers. When I updated to the latest kernel.org kernel, everything is great |
| 20:09.34 | stardiaries | i love the new deian cause the old "spacefun" theme was so ridiculous.... |
| 20:09.35 | stardiaries | :P |
| 20:09.39 | BlitzHere | I know, but was wondering if there was a known issue |
| 20:09.39 | stardiaries | deian=debian |
| 20:09.40 | Losowski | So, the kernel also is crucial for the latest drivers |
| 20:10.07 | Losowski | stardiaries: I have that theme but modified with the 'Debian" logo ;) |
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| 20:53.32 | d3guy222 | everybody - imagine a pressure cooker pot and imagine it losing pressure |
| 20:53.37 | d3guy222 | concentrate |
| 20:54.36 | gnarface | d3guy222: /topic |
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| 20:55.27 | d3guy222 | grandfather is in hospital with high blood pressure :( |
| 20:56.02 | themill | d3guy222: perhaps you want to talk about it in #defocus |
| 20:56.15 | d3guy222 | thanks! |
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| 21:00.46 | shavus | i am trying to install debian to my laptop. i have downloaded unetbootin and put debian netinst on my usb thumb drive. the installation runs smoothly but at the end GRUB cannot be installed. I choose to install LILO instead. Now my system fails to boot. anyone got a clue? |
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| 21:02.05 | shavus | the last errors on my screen are: mounting dev/root on /root failed: No such file or directory. among others |
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| 21:02.52 | g4mbit | shavus u made the stick bootable? |
| 21:03.08 | shavus | Yes. In fact, i've gone through installation |
| 21:03.25 | gnarface | shavus: what is unetbootin and why did you throw a monkey wrench in your mix by using it? |
| 21:03.41 | g4mbit | are you creating the usb drive unter windows or under linux? |
| 21:04.03 | shavus | windows |
| 21:04.06 | g4mbit | gnarface it's not a bad piece of software at all tbh |
| 21:04.10 | shavus | gnarface: i just thought about giving it a try. |
| 21:04.29 | captain-jack | shavus, use LiLi to make the drive in Windows |
| 21:04.48 | gnarface | g4mbit: yea but isn't it the wrong tool for this job as its 1) for making livecds but he's trying to install and 2) debian has a native livecd now so its obsolete and probably broken anyway and 3) W T F ? |
| 21:06.08 | g4mbit | so those errors appear after you try to boot from the drive? |
| 21:06.10 | g4mbit | aah |
| 21:06.11 | g4mbit | i see |
| 21:06.11 | g4mbit | sryx |
| 21:06.24 | g4mbit | looks like a partition issue to me |
| 21:06.30 | shavus | yes. i have installed debian already |
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| 21:07.36 | korkman | i have severe xorg performance issues across several gfx cards of different brands and in different PCs. wheezy. any common hints on debugging xorg performance? it seems to be specific to gtk applications |
| 21:07.42 | shavus | "Target filesystem doesn't have requested /sbin/init" can someone translate that for me |
| 21:08.17 | gnarface | shavus: you're missing core system binaries |
| 21:08.34 | gnarface | shavus: your install didn't complete its packages or somehow something critical went missing ( like maybe your / partition) |
| 21:08.45 | gnarface | shavus: what version of debian did you use? |
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| 21:09.11 | g4mbit | sry |
| 21:09.14 | g4mbit | connection problems |
| 21:09.21 | gnarface | korkman: debian doesn't ship with the commercial binaries, so performance is often degraded, especially in 3d applications....is that what you mean? |
| 21:09.36 | dannyp | init is the userland process that the kernel starts, which in turn starts everything else |
| 21:09.39 | g4mbit | in train |
| 21:09.43 | g4mbit | looks like a partition issue to me |
| 21:09.57 | gnarface | korkman: just installing the proper closed-source binary drivers for your video card theoretically will fix it (though may break other stuff... as such drivers aren't known for stability or quality) |
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| 21:10.25 | shavus | gnarface: i have installed debian squeeze |
| 21:10.51 | gnarface | shavus: anything weird happen while you were doing it? can you show me a link to the specific installer you used? |
| 21:10.58 | korkman | gnarface: no, doesn't help. nvidia binary driver at work, 2d performance degrades during the day |
| 21:11.00 | aidalgol | If I have an ssh tunnel running as a socks proxy, is there some way to redirect a program's TCP connections to that? |
| 21:11.30 | shavus | gnarface: no. it even downloaded packages for 10 minutes. ive used this application to get debian unto my thumb drive: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ |
| 21:11.30 | gnarface | korkman: "degrades" like you have a memory leak in some program? |
| 21:11.30 | aidalgol | I thought tsocks was what I wanted, but I couldn't make sense of the docs. |
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| 21:11.57 | gnarface | shavus: that application probably is what broke it |
| 21:12.23 | korkman | gnarface: for example geany. at some point, switching tabs is becoming slower and slower up to a point where i can see the text lines render. |
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| 21:12.39 | shavus | gnarface: okay. i will try to reinstall it via resources from debian.org. thanks for your help so far :) |
| 21:12.45 | gnarface | korkman: that's different. that's a memory leak of some sort. |
| 21:12.50 | korkman | gnarface: google-chrome, creating tabs takes seconds. |
| 21:12.52 | gnarface | korkman: you have a bug in some program you're using |
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| 21:13.03 | gnarface | korkman: its causing your system to gradually slow |
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| 21:13.20 | gnarface | shavus: good luck... |
| 21:13.23 | korkman | gnarface: so i should see memory usage of that program increase? |
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| 21:14.03 | gnarface | shavus: fyi as of squeeze the isos are hybrid so you should be able to just dd/cat/cp/rawwrite them directly to the USB key, no fancy formatting or installer mangling tools necessary |
| 21:14.24 | gnarface | korkman: yes, you would see a corresponding memory usage increase |
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| 21:15.05 | korkman | gnarface: another example is drawing selection rectangles in gimp or eog, both are terribly sluggish |
| 21:15.05 | gnarface | korkman: by the time things start to drag you'll notice you're likely *out* of free memory entirely by then and swap starts to slowly fill too till the whole thing grinds down to a crawl. |
| 21:15.21 | korkman | gnarface: swap is disabled on all systems |
| 21:15.24 | gnarface | korkman: but after a fresh boot up, everything is snappy and fine right? |
| 21:15.33 | gnarface | korkman: oh shit dude. you might need that. that could be your problem right there |
| 21:15.46 | gnarface | some stuff does actually *require* swap |
| 21:16.15 | korkman | i refuse to believe drawing rectangle selections requires swap :-) |
| 21:16.45 | gnarface | loves these people who just cavalierly disable core kernel functionality because some kid posted on a forum once that it made their gaming rig faster |
| 21:16.57 | stardiaries | you shouldnt swap |
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| 21:17.03 | stardiaries | swapping is bad |
| 21:17.21 | gnarface | not *having* swap if something *requires* it is worse though. crashing is bad. |
| 21:17.25 | stardiaries | .. taking into account the speed ogf HD's these days :P |
| 21:17.50 | dannyp | well, I don't think much *requires* swap (excepting kernel crash dumps and the like) but having swap is almost often a really good idea; your system can page things out and you'll be able to allocate more pages with lower latency more reliably |
| 21:18.35 | stardiaries | komugi: if you disabled swap it's not your issue anyway |
| 21:19.00 | korkman | i do get the feeling intel gfx have no issues |
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| 21:20.01 | korkman | heh even pidgin which i'm using now showed the degration issue with tabs |
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| 21:20.18 | gnarface | korkman: well it would affect all programs at once |
| 21:20.33 | dannyp | stardiaries: I disagree with the general statement, "swapping is bad." I think in general swapping in from disk is a sign that you're quite possibly in a bad situation, but swapping out to disk is not. |
| 21:20.37 | korkman | like every gtk application with tabs (google-chrome is gtk based?) |
| 21:21.14 | dannyp | but like with everything, it depends on your application. I'd advise against building a typical desktop without swap. |
| 21:21.21 | gnarface | korkman: the gtk thing is probably a red herring. its just that every time you switch tabs its gotta move a lot of memory and your memory is crowded |
| 21:22.10 | gnarface | korkman: exit X11 completely and come back in and i bet it will be fine again (until you start up that leaky program and let it run for a while... ever consider the possiblity it might be chrome, a chrome plugin you're using, or your janky window manager?) |
| 21:22.41 | stardiaries | dannyp: i agree with you for long running systems (like servers) were unused things are swapped out, but for desktops (uptime ~some days) it's not OK |
| 21:22.56 | korkman | i did consider the window manager. switched between kde and xfce. |
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| 21:23.01 | gnarface | korkman: once i had this happen to me it turned out to be my video card drivers leaking, but they would only leak while certain games were running (in wine) |
| 21:23.25 | gnarface | korkman: upgraded driver version eventually fixed it |
| 21:23.33 | gnarface | korkman: that was the nvidia commercial binary drivers |
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| 21:24.18 | gnarface | korkman: if its a program leaking on its own it should be sufficient to just close that program and you'll instantly see the memory free up and everything get fast again... if its your drivers or X11 itself leaking though you'll have to restart the whole window manager. |
| 21:24.40 | gnarface | korkman: er, rather restart X11... restarting the window manager may not do that |
| 21:24.52 | stardiaries | gnarface: dont forget that he disabled swap |
| 21:24.52 | korkman | gnarface: the latter is the effect i observed. closing all programs didn't help, only restarting x |
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| 21:25.12 | dannyp | stardiaries: engaging the oom_killer is almost certainly not a great experience on a desktop, and in most interactive situations you'll notice slow new allocations (because the allocation is blocking on fully exhausting the machine's ram and them the oom_killer stepping in) as worse than slow reads to idle pages. it's the difference between bringing up an old tab and it being slow to load, and bringing up a new window (or terminal, possibly to kill off |
| 21:25.16 | gnarface | korkman: yea, re-enable swap too. that can't hurt |
| 21:25.25 | korkman | stardiaries: well some machines are nfs booted, and i shall not swap over nfs :-) |
| 21:26.39 | stardiaries | dannyp: i it certainly just takes me a couple of seconds to recover from an oom situation (even reboot) than to wait muntes until my system reacts againt o keyboard events (or mouse movement) when swapping |
| 21:26.55 | korkman | since performance is so bad across different gfx drivers, i suspect something in xorg is no longer accelerated and drivers are lagging behind implementing proper routines |
| 21:27.04 | dannyp | stardiaries: it may be more beneficial to have your pages functioning as block device buffers than holding inactive, stale data. and it's easy to imagine that being the case in a lot of interactive workloads |
| 21:27.55 | dannyp | no argument that if you're thrashing (same pages in and out of swap) then that's a bad thing. But that's an extreme case, and swap is useful in lots of situations where you don't end up thrashing |
| 21:28.10 | korkman | stop it about swap already it's got no disk at all :-) |
| 21:28.35 | dannyp | korkman: the discussion is not just about, for, or relevant to one user! |
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| 21:29.02 | dannyp | :) |
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| 21:29.47 | DeathWolf | hi all, has anyone ever tinkered with double X11forwarding? (ie ssh -X host1, and then in there ssh -X host2) |
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| 21:31.12 | dannyp | stardiaries: but yes, I'd expect you would see much better performance in low-memory, high-disk I/O (especially random access over a small/constrained data set) situations with swap enabled than with it disabled. |
| 21:31.41 | DeathWolf | basically the second x11forwarding does not seem to occur |
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| 21:32.56 | stardiaries | dancek: dont really know, need to test that case :) |
| 21:33.20 | stardiaries | dancek=dannyp |
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| 21:33.35 | stardiaries | sorry 'bout autocomplete :P |
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| 21:35.04 | stardiaries | dannyp: certainly there was and is much discussion about that, but it seems that nowadays swapping gets more complicated as speed of RAM and HD diverge - HD's just stay slow, so swapping gets more and more annoying as amount of data to be swapped tends to grow over years |
| 21:35.08 | korkman | hm the bug i encounter was filed against geany: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geany/+bug/967255 |
| 21:35.10 | cali | How can I apply settings from limits.conf without having to log out and log in again? |
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| 21:35.54 | korkman | swapping on servers with 144G of ram? |
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| 21:36.09 | stardiaries | korkman: that would be a server |
| 21:36.18 | stardiaries | i'm talking about desktop/laptop |
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| 21:36.46 | Gnudnik | I changed a ext3 file system to ext4 on a Lenny system that had been upgraded to Squeeze, but apparently my initrd didn't have ext4 support so the system is not booting. leaving me at initramfs. Apparently there is a way to insert a generic initrd in to my kernel, presumably from a live CD, but I don't have a clue. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=54486 |
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| 21:39.03 | stardiaries | korkman: and yes, you'll see swapping even on servers with that much of ram |
| 21:39.13 | stardiaries | for servers it's okay anyway |
| 21:39.22 | Diopter | "okay"? |
| 21:39.28 | stardiaries | yea sure |
| 21:39.29 | korkman | stardiaries: i did. since then i disable swap on all servers. |
| 21:39.35 | Diopter | Crushing a server under I/O wait may not, in fact, be okay. |
| 21:39.56 | korkman | and actually, on all desktops, too |
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| 21:40.24 | stardiaries | if u have a long running system then unused memory is sweapped out, thats normal |
| 21:40.33 | dannyp | yeah I'd actually tend to think servers are the place where you don't generally want swap, as you'd generally favor predictability of performance (that is, a low standard deviation of latency for various operations) to overall increased performance |
| 21:40.35 | stardiaries | so you have more space for active buffers/caches |
| 21:40.38 | Diopter | stardiaries: Actually that depends on memory pressure and swappiness. |
| 21:40.43 | dannyp | but this assumes a lot of things about architecture and the like |
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| 21:40.50 | Kobaz | anyone know how i would change the default application for .pdf... my apps like thunderbird and such keep trying to use gimp to open pdf's |
| 21:40.51 | korkman | the problem is that when users decide they suddenly need that unused memory, the server gets spiked |
| 21:41.06 | shavus | hello. I have successfully installed debian and now I get to choose my bootloader. Sadly, my GRUB Installation fails. Can I continue without a bootloader? |
| 21:41.42 | gnarface | korkman: yea but it shouldn't happen for data that any users would "suddenly need" |
| 21:41.43 | Diopter | korkman: Right. High swappiness is overcommitting on RAM, which gives you false expectations about performance at any given time. |
| 21:41.47 | Kobaz | shavus: not easily... you would need to make a bootable cd if you didn't install the boot loader on your drive |
| 21:41.48 | shavus | im inside the debian installer mainmenu. |
| 21:41.49 | Diopter | Since it will vary based on combinations of load. |
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| 21:42.34 | ectospasm | shavus: you should be able to select LILO as your bootloader, and try that... |
| 21:42.40 | Kobaz | shavus: do you have 'virus protection' enabled in your bios? (which prevents loading new boot loaders) |
| 21:42.43 | stardiaries | for my experience (e.g. using blender): i have 2GB of ram and load a 3GB animation - the system doesnt OOM but gives me a total locked-up situation due to swappping. i cannot do anything anymore, not even cleanly reboot |
| 21:43.11 | shavus | kobaz: thanks for the advice, i will check that. |
| 21:43.14 | Kobaz | stardiaries: install lots of ram |
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| 21:44.34 | dannyp | stardiaries: yeah, if you're running things that exceed your physical ram, you're going to be in a bad situation, and swap won't improve it. if you loaded a 1GB animation, however, you'd probably see much better performance on the machine with swap. |
| 21:44.38 | Kobaz | stardiaries: 16 gigs is what, like $45 now? don't be stingy when doing animation/video/etc |
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| 21:45.22 | korkman | the overall situation of swap is that more than 1 or 2gb hdd swap is not pracically usable, and memory overcommit of 20% exceeds that size from 10gb ram up |
| 21:45.48 | chipotle | hi, so i'm trying to install a keyring that is in a .deb format for an unofficial repo... what do i need to do? does dpkg -i package-name.deb work? |
| 21:45.53 | Kobaz | no one should be using swap anymore with the price of ram as it is |
| 21:46.04 | Kobaz | or rather, no one should rely on swap for anything |
| 21:46.31 | dannyp | people really should say things like "no one" when you have to realize that there are people doing a very large number of different things with [computers|linux|debian] |
| 21:46.32 | gnarface | thinks you're both fools |
| 21:46.51 | Kobaz | but swapping generally sucks in all use cases |
| 21:47.25 | shavus | gnarface: running into the same problems as before. used the netinst iso from the debian.org website, unpacked it unto my thumbdrive and now GRUB won't install but LILO does and in the end it is not booting my debian :( |
| 21:47.26 | gnarface | Kobaz: really? like the use case where the alternative is to chew up more cpu time reconstructing all that data? |
| 21:47.42 | gnarface | Kobaz: ... usually from DISK in |
| 21:47.48 | dannyp | Kobaz, I really don't think that's true. If you're doing a lot of I/O and have a large application that's sleeping, you want your physical ram to be buffering your block device (and preventing seeks of your disk) instead of holding pages for an application that's sleeping. |
| 21:47.53 | Kobaz | gnarface: in what case would you prefer to swap? |
| 21:48.05 | Kobaz | dancek: if you have enough ram, then why swap? |
| 21:48.22 | Kobaz | yes it's good to swap out stuff you're not using, but if you don't need to, then why do it |
| 21:48.35 | Kobaz | save some io for other things |
| 21:48.40 | stardiaries | Kobaz: that's e.g. the case with long uptimes |
| 21:48.44 | dannyp | the idea that you can simply always have "enough ram" to handle all arbitrary calculations is crazy |
| 21:48.49 | stardiaries | that's why i said it's OK for servers |
| 21:48.56 | gnarface | Kobaz: the point is unless you have more ram than harddrive space you might need to |
| 21:48.58 | Kobaz | dannyp: depends on your use case |
| 21:49.21 | Kobaz | in general, you want to avoid swapping if you want high performance, that's all |
| 21:49.23 | gnarface | shavus: show me the link to the exact installer you used? |
| 21:49.37 | shavus | gnarface: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.5/i386/iso-cd/debian-6.0.5-i386-netinst.iso |
| 21:49.43 | korkman | there are some allocation details when applications allocate memory, but won't use them. that unused memory can be pooled into swap without ever causing io |
| 21:49.55 | gnarface | shavus: what hardware are you trying to install to? |
| 21:50.01 | dannyp | Kobaz: yes, like everything. hence the reason statements that start with "no one" and "all use cases" are almost always incorrect |
| 21:50.05 | stardiaries | korkman: you mean overcommiting |
| 21:50.15 | shavus | im installing to my laptop,, which is an asus aspire 5720z |
| 21:50.57 | Kobaz | dancek: note i said 'should' and 'generally' |
| 21:50.59 | gnarface | shavus: something is clearly wrong. are you installing in expert mode? |
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| 21:51.04 | Kobaz | not 'must' and 'always' |
| 21:51.10 | shavus | gnarface: no, im just using the normal install mode |
| 21:51.23 | korkman | stardiaries: not exacly. i would have pointed to linux being able to overcommit, so it does not need swap for "fake memory" |
| 21:51.24 | shavus | gnarface: its fetching the files and all. |
| 21:51.26 | dannyp | but for servers, if you're designing something scalable, you probably want to add more machines before you add swap, because swap will increase the long tail of latency for certain operations, and with latency being that unpredictable, building a scalable service will be very difficult |
| 21:52.02 | korkman | stardiaries: while windows does indeed need swap to deal with unused allocated memory |
| 21:52.08 | Gnudnik | Can I use chroot from a live CD to upgrade the initrd on an unbootable system so grub can see the new ext4 file system? |
| 21:52.13 | gnarface | shavus: i don't know off the top of my head if that hardware has issues, sorry. but i would try expert mode, myself, and i would also probably try the livecd as well as making sure i had the latest bios |
| 21:52.26 | Kobaz | anyways |
| 21:52.38 | gnarface | shavus: i'd also google for possible non-standard kernel parameters you might need to add for that particular hardware |
| 21:52.50 | Kobaz | anyone know how i would change the default application for .pdf... my apps like thunderbird and such keep trying to use gimp to open pdf's.. i already changed the default for pdf in gnome-control-panel but no go |
| 21:53.11 | dannyp | korkman: swap is not "fake memory" - modern VM subsystems are going to manage pages that are backed by physical ram, swap, files, network... |
| 21:53.27 | Kobaz | swap is a crutch |
| 21:53.41 | shavus | gnarface: ok, didnt think about that. |
| 21:53.45 | dannyp | is mmap() a crutch as well? |
| 21:53.47 | gnarface | Kobaz: you're an idiot, a troll, and off topic. stop please |
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| 21:53.52 | korkman | dannyp: no but it's a very convenient place for "fake memory" (sorry i made that term up) |
| 21:53.57 | Kobaz | gnarface: if you plan your situation right, it's better to go OOM and restart your apps versus swap-death |
| 21:54.14 | Kobaz | no i'm not trolling, and no this isn't off topic |
| 21:54.26 | Kobaz | the solution to the blender problem is more ram, or a smaller project that fits in ram |
| 21:54.27 | gnarface | Kobaz: its a support channel |
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| 21:54.46 | stardiaries | thats' what I mean too, sometimes i'd prefer to run into OOM situation, especially on desktops |
| 21:54.57 | korkman | +1 for oom. |
| 21:55.22 | stardiaries | and let the application gracefully show me an error message for failled malloc() |
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| 21:55.36 | Kobaz | if you don't have enough ram to fit your workload, then you need more ram, or you need to set resource limits accordingly, or add more servers |
| 21:56.13 | dannyp | stardiaries: by the time that happens, you're going to have no buffers, which means all of your I/O operations are going to involve spinning disks. |
| 21:56.31 | Kobaz | adding swap is not the solution, was my point |
| 21:56.45 | dannyp | now if you have no I/O workload, by all means, go ahead |
| 21:56.45 | themill | points towards #debian-offtopic |
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| 21:57.33 | dannyp | themill: when someone is complaining about performance and trying to understand swap, isn't discussion about swap on-topic? |
| 21:57.41 | Kobaz | yeah |
| 21:58.31 | dannyp | I don't have much else to say on the topic, however, so the question is moot, I suppose. |
| 21:59.14 | themill | We'd gone, yet again, from "answer a question" to "let's all have a rant about how stupid the plebs are". That's something that belongs elsewhere. |
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| 22:01.18 | stardiaries | nobody was ranting here |
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| 22:11.12 | brian98 | buuntu |
| 22:11.53 | dvs | never heard of it |
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| 22:16.52 | shavus | ive given up on installing it to my laptop |
| 22:17.04 | shavus | there might be a harddrive failure. i will use virtualbox for now |
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| 22:26.34 | Gnudnik | My lenny-updated-to-squeeze system won't boot my upgraded ext3 to ext4 file systems, presumably because the initrd doesn't have ext4 support. Is there any reason I can't copy the initrd from another squeeze system with the same kernel & ext4 support to the unbootable system's /boot directory? |
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| 22:27.51 | venger | Gnudnik, i think you could boot live cd and chroot and update-initramfs -u -k all / update-grub as needed |
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| 22:30.05 | Gnudnik | Alright, I'll give it a try, venger |
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| 22:30.22 | venger | Gnudnik, just mount up dev, proc and sysfs so grub is happy |
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| 22:36.39 | Gnudnik | I'll try, Venger. I think I saw how to do that in the Ubuntu grub2 tutorial. |
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| 22:51.11 | karsten | is there a way to run a the equivalent of an 'apt-get' or 'aptitude' update on just a single repository? |
| 22:51.13 | shake | hi i have a problem with installing mysql. when i install mysql 5.1 with apt-get install mysql-server-5.1 but it didnt work. while im installing it it says : Unable to set password for the MySQL "root" user |
| 22:51.18 | karsten | Possibly, say, with dpkg. |
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| 22:51.58 | karsten | This is an issue for us developing a chef-based cloud deployment recipie where we change and/or add to repos several times in the host installation process. |
| 22:52.19 | karsten | If we could avoid full reruns of "apt-get update" life would be somewhat more awesomer. |
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| 22:53.13 | Gnudnik | Actually, Venger, simply copying the initrd from another Squeeze system seemed to work fine. It was 9MB compared to 2.4 MB for the original one, which I backed up. We'll see what happens when I upgrade kernels. |
| 22:53.14 | tawtaw | how do i prevent apt from overwriting files in /usr/share/applications? |
| 22:53.52 | venger | Gnudnik yes it will when everything matches up but go ahead and update-initramfs anyway |
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| 22:54.37 | venger | Gnudnik ie update-initramfs -u -k all |
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| 22:55.18 | Gnudnik | Just run "update-initramfs -u -k all" from a # terminal in my newly rescued Squeeze system? |
| 22:55.21 | Twinkletoes|H | If I wanted to forward all root's mail to an external address, what are the pros/cons of using either a .forward file, or editing /etc/aliases? ie. which one should I be doing? |
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| 22:56.03 | venger | Gnudnik, sure it updates all install initrd's. assuming everything is in working order it'll build an initrd with the support you need |
| 22:56.17 | Gnudnik | Great, thanks venger |
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| 22:58.01 | tawtaw | is there no easy way of making file not overwritable for apt? |
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| 22:58.54 | venger | tawtaw you mean pin an application? |
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| 23:01.06 | Gnudnik1 | venger, when I run 'update-initramfs -u -k all' I get a message: "update-initramfs: /boot/initrd.img-2.6.32-5-686 has been altered. / update-initramfs: Cannot update. Override with -t option." Should I re-run the command with the "-t" switch? |
| 23:02.04 | venger | Gnudnik1, its probably the one you copied over. save that off and roll with it. |
| 23:02.11 | Gnudnik1 | The command updated an older initrd: update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-2-686 |
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| 23:02.59 | shake | hi i have a problem with installing mysql. when i install mysql 5.1 with apt-get install mysql-server-5.1 but it didnt work. while im installing it it says : Unable to set password for the MySQL "root" user |
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| 23:03.42 | Ugly_Duck | anyone know much about ldirectord? |
| 23:03.43 | jparkton | shake, are you running the command as root? |
| 23:03.53 | shake | i dont know |
| 23:03.53 | Gnudnik1 | I'm sorry, venger, I don't understand. Should I restore my old initrd or use the -t option? Or run the mkinitramfs command, some how. It is all Black Magic to me, I'm afraid. |
| 23:04.02 | shake | im logged in as root |
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| 23:04.29 | shake | how can i run it as root? |
| 23:05.34 | jparkton | shake run command "whoami" |
| 23:05.35 | venger | Gnudnik1, all i'm saying is backup the one that works (the one you copied over) and run the command. if you can boot then you just ruled out any issues going forward |
| 23:05.41 | shake | ok |
| 23:05.45 | jparkton | does it say root? |
| 23:05.50 | shake | yes |
| 23:05.53 | shake | root |
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| 23:06.10 | Gnudnik1 | I see, thanks, venger |
| 23:06.10 | jparkton | so I dunno why it wont set your passwd |
| 23:06.15 | venger | Gnudnik1 -t means overwrite a custom initramfs |
| 23:06.33 | shake | it says also |
| 23:06.47 | shake | :error: 'Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket |
| 23:07.02 | shake | when i try to set an password |
| 23:07.05 | shake | manually |
| 23:07.24 | Gnudnik1 | I see. Thanks again. I'll back up the working initrd and run: update-initramfs -u -k -t all |
| 23:07.32 | shake | like this : mysqladmin -u root password NEWPASS |
| 23:08.05 | shake | this the whole error: error: 'Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) |
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| 23:08.59 | tawtaw | venger: no i just mean preventing things like /usr/share/application/whatever.desktop files from being overwritten. not pinning as in pinning packages |
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| 23:12.35 | gnarface | question: if i have a on-board video card with HDMI output that I am currently not using (bypassing with a GTX560 Ti) can i still do anything useful with that HDMI port? |
| 23:13.05 | gnarface | i guess it has a regular hd-15 socket too, |
| 23:13.34 | gnarface | so i guess what i mean is, can i do anything useful with the onboard video card while i'm using an add-on card for Xorg? |
| 23:13.52 | venger | tawtaw: sorry i can't answer specifically, but some things allow a local version in your home directory to get around this kind of answer |
| 23:14.06 | venger | answer=issue |
| 23:14.57 | tawtaw | venger: in this specific case it causes duplicate entrys (i am trying to get matchbox-desktop to play nice) |
| 23:15.34 | tawtaw | venger: haha i tried chattr but dpkg does not like that :) |
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| 23:16.07 | venger | tawtaw: when all else fails ; symlink |
| 23:16.55 | themill | tawtaw: you should be able to override your menu entries in whatever is displaying your menu |
| 23:17.12 | tawtaw | themill: matchbox-desktop is kinda dumb |
| 23:17.18 | themill | *shrug* |
| 23:17.19 | tawtaw | venger: i think that might work |
| 23:17.35 | tawtaw | themill: well i have a touchscreen on a cpupoor machine, so... |
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| 23:18.14 | tawtaw | venger: but then again, every upgrade would break it |
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| 23:18.56 | tawtaw | is there really no way to tell dpkg or apt-get not to overwrite files? |
| 23:19.14 | tawtaw | must be, it handles configuration files all the time |
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| 23:19.38 | tawtaw | or is that scripted in the package? |
| 23:19.39 | venger | tawtaw: well as you know with configuration files you get prompted about |
| 23:20.37 | venger | tawtaw i'd assume it was a component,flag within the specific .deb |
| 23:20.53 | themill | tawtaw: dpkg only has special handling for config files for files that it is told to do so within the .deb |
| 23:21.07 | tawtaw | ok |
| 23:21.20 | venger | tawtaw: anyway aren't .desktop files launchers? |
| 23:21.31 | tawtaw | yes |
| 23:22.11 | venger | i though those went in ~/Desktop like maybe it is in xfce4? well i'm not much of a desktop guy |
| 23:22.15 | tawtaw | ill just find another fullscreen launcher application instead i guess :) too bad matchbox-desktop was really lightweight |
| 23:22.27 | venger | oic now |
| 23:22.54 | venger | i'd poke the author or something |
| 23:23.19 | tawtaw | thats actually not a bad idea, i will do that |
| 23:23.31 | themill | tawtaw: I still don't know what you're actually trying to do here |
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| 23:25.23 | Gnudnik1 | venger, FWIW the command that seemed to work was: update-initramfs -t -u |
| 23:25.29 | tawtaw | themill: in the end, i just want a fullscreen application launcher which is compatible with i3wm, is kinda lightweight and works ok on a touchscreen |
| 23:25.47 | tawtaw | now with the addition of being able to organize my launchers |
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| 23:31.51 | shake | i think the server is not installing m,ysql correctly |
| 23:32.08 | shake | i have debian 6 on 32 bit running |
| 23:32.33 | venger | testing debian wheezy here (and Xen) i ran into what is ultimately this issue (http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2011/09/msg00096.html) regarding co respawning to fast and device /dev/hvc0. My question is what about bare metal boots? Should there tecnically be a wrapper call for this type inittab entry that would check if the device exists (under Xen) so as to facilitate both scenarios? |
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| 23:33.05 | simonlnu | they're "launchers", pointers to urls, and directory descriptions. see the spec. |
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| 23:34.25 | simonlnu | likes them better than mac os' aliases and windows' shortcuts since they're text and can edit them easily |
| 23:35.46 | shake | can this be possible? |
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| 23:37.17 | simonlnu | yeh, there's a fix somewhere i don't recall where exactly. $search_engine will help |
| 23:38.05 | shake | KIDS |
| 23:38.16 | shake | go sleep |
| 23:38.51 | shake | you need a fix for ya head |
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| 23:38.55 | simonlnu | o_O. you have kids and you're telling them to go sleep? |
| 23:39.17 | simonlnu | wth was that about? |
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| 23:41.57 | rahul | hello I downloaded debian testing amd64 - cd1 iso and ran the graphical install. What happens is it gets stuck at 'Select and install software" phase and doesn't do anything. Switching to alt+f4 i can see a few lines like aptitude not found in /bin/sh (something similar) and use of uninitialesed value in vec |
| 23:42.05 | rahul | how do i solve this? |
| 23:43.23 | venger | rahul i just installed again and it was ok, did you actually pick any specific packages from the list ie desktop, print server, etc (where you at that point?) |
| 23:44.57 | venger | rahul well within the last few days i did the install, but i also use netinst |
| 23:45.13 | rahul | i did not get an option to pick anything like that. i just selected my timezone, partitions, and it installed the base system fine and then it asked me if i wanted to download extra packages from the network mirrors which i said no to, moved on the the select and install software stage and hung |
| 23:45.29 | rahul | mine wasn't netinstall |
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| 23:46.06 | venger | rahul, maybe try netinst and then think about filing a bug on the cd method if that works? |
| 23:46.09 | themill | installing stable and upgrading to testing is normally more successful |
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