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| 01:03.16 | *** topic/#debian is Debian's 20th Birthday Party! | wheezy released: /msg dpkg squeeze->wheezy | /msg dpkg 7.1 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) | FAQ: http://deb.li/IRCFAQ |
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| 01:06.43 | moses | I have a motherboardGA-78LMT with amd 64 - I tried to install wheezy but I cannot boot even from the CD drive, any hint why is this happening ? I install wheezy in another computer and transfered the hard disk and it works, but I am still bugged by boot problem |
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| 01:10.11 | roger21 | when i [tab] a variable $something on bash, it used to expand it (older linux box) now it just escape the $, how can i come back to the previous behaviour? |
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| 01:13.00 | peterrooney | roger21: /msg dpkg cross post |
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| 01:13.17 | roger21 | it's tell |
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| 01:45.24 | egonzalez_ergio | Hi:I'm trying to use live-build 3.0.5. When I made a simple: lb config --architecture i386 ; lb config. The construction breaks with: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/opt/ThayaLinux/ISOS/chroot mount -t proc proc /proc . And, in chroot/debootstrap/debootstrap.log can see live-build: invalid option -- 't'. Some idea? |
| 01:47.05 | themill | egonzalez_ergio: you might do better in #debian-live on irc.oftc.net |
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| 03:21.53 | rryoumaa | how do i take a category of package (say, window managers) and sort all packages in that category by popularity contest vote? |
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| 04:06.11 | paranoidphreak | hi everybody, when i try to launch gui programs through terminal as root, i get error something like this: No protocol specified kate: cannot connect to X server :0 |
| 04:07.09 | paranoidphreak | how do i fix this? i'm logged into the terminal as root under a normal user |
| 04:07.54 | urandom_ | For graphical programs, I think you're supposed to use "gksudo" or "gksu" |
| 04:08.12 | paranoidphreak | i'm also using KDE |
| 04:08.23 | urandom_ | then I think it's "kdesu" |
| 04:08.27 | urandom_ | try that |
| 04:09.02 | urandom_ | "kdesu kate", for example (w/out the quotes) |
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| 04:10.15 | paranoidphreak | urandom_: i tried what you suggested but it gives me an error: kdesu command not found |
| 04:10.47 | urandom_ | sorry then, don't know |
| 04:10.56 | urandom_ | I'm sure someone else will |
| 04:11.17 | paranoidphreak | urandom_: thanks anyways |
| 04:11.23 | urandom_ | np |
| 04:11.41 | urandom_ | I haven't used KDE for some time, |
| 04:12.05 | urandom_ | If you right click on the icon for a program, is there an option to "open as root"? |
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| 04:14.55 | urandom_ | When running live, where no password is required to invoke root, |
| 04:15.28 | urandom_ | how easy would it be for a /remote/ attacker to gain root ? |
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| 04:15.49 | paranoidphreak | urandom_: i tried that but didn't work; i'm trying to transition to kde; playing around in vm before i transition to it completely. i've always used gnome |
| 04:16.18 | paranoidphreak | urandom_: to be honest, idk |
| 04:16.53 | urandom_ | paranoidphreak: thanks for replying |
| 04:17.15 | urandom_ | about /my/ quesiton, I didn't mean to ask you specifically, but anyone who might know |
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| 04:18.24 | paranoidphreak | urandom_: np |
| 04:19.09 | urandom_ | Tails ( https://tails.boum.org ), for example, originally invoked root w/out PW |
| 04:19.21 | exported | when i was on debian i used mate :o |
| 04:19.55 | urandom_ | but then they changed it, requiring one to set a PW at boot, in order to be able to invoke root |
| 04:20.25 | urandom_ | and before anyone says it: Yes, I know, this is not the place for Tails stuff, I was only citing an example |
| 04:21.49 | urandom_ | AFAIK, all Debians have PW-less su/sudo in *live* mode, by default |
| 04:23.26 | exported | urandom_: what was your question. i missed it i think lol |
| 04:24.11 | urandom_ | About invoking root while running live, no PW is required |
| 04:24.42 | urandom_ | how much easier does that make it for a /remote/ attacker to also gain root, w/out PW? |
| 04:25.23 | exported | urandom_: i don't think ssh allows empty passwords by default so you would need a pw but i'm not 100 percent on that..i would do some test with a live session and see how easy it is yourself |
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| 04:26.13 | exported | urandom_: it might actually allow for it but idk about live debian. never used it enough to know lol |
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| 04:28.05 | keyzs | Specify the location of <apachehome>/bin/httpd in your system (For example /etc/httpd/bin), whats the location of httpd on debian? |
| 04:28.41 | urandom_ | urandom: thanks |
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| 04:29.09 | exported | urandom_: carefull about that talking to yourself XD i hear if you answer you're crazy XD |
| 04:29.39 | urandom_ | I don't think ssh is the only potential vector, though |
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| 04:30.35 | urandom_ | I've heard there can be many ways for an attacker to gain root |
| 04:30.53 | exported | urandom_: of course not lol thats the obvious one though for sure XD |
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| 04:31.44 | urandom_ | yes, that makes sense |
| 04:33.06 | exported | urandom_: you could just do passwd for root everytime you log on XD seems like a hassle but that could be helpful :P |
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| 04:34.44 | urandom_ | Oh, I always change PWs from default any time I run live if I'll be connected for any l length of time BUT... |
| 04:35.36 | urandom_ | even after changing both reg. user as well as root PWs, default live behavior is to not prompt for PW |
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| 04:52.36 | rryoumaa | is there a way to compare popularity contest values for a supplied list of packages? or for a tag? |
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| 05:02.07 | themill | rryoumaa: I'm not sure what the correct way of comparing popcon values is at all. Downloading the data from popcon.debian.org and then running through it with grep or a simple perl/python script might be the easiest |
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| 05:33.13 | paranoidphreak | hi everybody, when i try to launch gui programs through terminal as root, i get error something like this: No protocol specified kate: cannot connect to X server :0....how do i fix this? i'm logged into the terminal as root under a normal user. i'm using kde |
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| 05:40.11 | themill | paranoidphreak: use gksu (or kdesu) instead |
| 05:41.21 | urandom_ | themill: I suggested that to para, and h/she said it didn't work |
| 05:41.42 | themill | exactly what was tried and in what way did it not work? |
| 05:42.09 | urandom_ | paranoidphreak: Didn't you say you are in a VM? If so, I suggest making this clear when you ask, |
| 05:42.34 | urandom_ | perhaps it is relevant, not sure though |
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| 05:45.21 | *** join/#debian FaTony (~FaTony@ppp83-237-192-30.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 05:46.33 | FaTony | Is it possible to have Debian and Windows 7 on the same machine using GRUB? |
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| 05:47.29 | urandom_ | FaTony: Should be, Windows 8 is where people can have trouble, b/c of UEFI |
| 05:47.50 | FaTony | urandom_, thanks |
| 05:48.05 | urandom_ | but I don't think systems w/ Windows 7 came w/ UEFI enabled by default |
| 05:48.28 | urandom_ | DISCLAIMER: I have no experience actually dual-booting myself |
| 05:48.53 | FaTony | urandom_, I thought UEFI is a hardware thing you can't turn it off |
| 05:49.22 | paranoidphreak | urandom_, themillQ |
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| 05:50.19 | rryoumaa | themill: thanks |
| 05:50.26 | paranoidphreak | urandom_, themill: running in vm shouldn't cause any problems what i'm trying to accomplish, or would it? |
| 05:50.30 | urandom_ | FaTony: UEFI replaces BIOS, UEFI can be disabled but not, I believe , if you want to run Windows 8 |
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| 05:51.12 | urandom_ | so if you want to dual-boot another OS with Win 8, the other OS has to be signed for UEFI |
| 05:51.31 | urandom_ | that's what I've read, there's a lot of info out there on this, search and you should find |
| 05:51.41 | FaTony | urandom_, hmm I couldn't find anything related to non-UEFI BIOS in the docs for my motherboard, are you thinking about Secure Boot? |
| 05:52.33 | urandom_ | "Secure Boot" = UEFI, or that was my understanding, I could have missed something though |
| 05:53.20 | FaTony | urandom_, no, Secure Boot is a one parameter in UEFI, which I turned off before I've started installing Windows on my machine ;) |
| 05:53.20 | ui_ | no, secure boot is a part of UEFI that is mandatory on laptops that have the "Windows 8" logo stick |
| 05:53.59 | ui_ | mandatory in the sense that MS requires it |
| 05:54.40 | urandom_ | ui_: Right, Windows 8, but I didn't think Win 7 |
| 05:54.56 | james41382 | I thought I read somewhere that one way to dual boot windows and linux where the computer has UEFI is to go into the BIOS and switch from UEFI to "legacy" boot, then test it to make sure windows it still working by rebooting several times before attempting to shrink your volume and install linux. |
| 05:55.00 | urandom_ | and I didn't realize it was only laptopts |
| 05:55.23 | FaTony | no, it's not only laptops |
| 05:56.08 | FaTony | my motherboard is UEFI only afaik, it had Secure Boot enabled by default but I've turned it off, I dual boot Windows XP and 7 right now |
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| 05:57.49 | urandom_ | FaTony: right, but Windows *8*, I believe, will only boot w/ secure boot-- (or at least on a laptop w/ the Win 8 logo, as per what ui_ said) |
| 05:58.46 | FaTony | urandom_, I don't care about Windows 8, I plan to completely migrate to GNU/Linux before Windows 8 will achieve any relevance |
| 05:59.24 | urandom_ | ok, well, as I said, I don't /think, you should have a problem with Win 7 or XP but I don't /know/ |
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| 05:59.57 | urandom_ | Have you tried searching? Should be a lot of info on the web on all this |
| 06:00.08 | urandom_ | a lot of people in the same or similar situations |
| 06:00.36 | FaTony | not yet, I've just felt asking here is faster |
| 06:00.57 | Konomi | any piee of hardware with the windodws 8 cert must have secure boot |
| 06:00.58 | james41382 | urandom_: My laptop is three years old and I don't believe it has UEFI, but I am running Windows 8 Pro fine. |
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| 06:01.10 | Konomi | win8 doesn't specifically need secure boot |
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| 06:02.17 | james41382 | It came with Windows 7 Home and I upgraded to 8 Pro, but the upgrade didn't go perfectly so I just recently did a clean install. |
| 06:02.27 | urandom_ | I see, so it looks like james is proof of what Konomi said |
| 06:02.54 | urandom_ | so FaTony should have no problem then |
| 06:03.38 | ShaggyInc | My laptop came on 7, but does have UEFI |
| 06:03.52 | Konomi | uefi != secure boot |
| 06:03.59 | ShaggyInc | true |
| 06:04.29 | Konomi | though I dislike both to different mesures |
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| 06:04.49 | FaTony | I feel out of place by manually asembling my desktop and not having laptop these days |
| 06:05.16 | ShaggyInc | anything with secureboot stays beyond the device-guestline here (not on the 2nd floor) and on a separated lan |
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| 06:06.13 | james41382 | FaTony: I really want to build a desktop and set it up as a small server on my home network for fun. Maybe next year... I am thinking of having it replace my router I'm using now. |
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| 06:08.38 | ShaggyInc | i wish there'd be cases for diy laptops. Gonna have to do fine with my T420 for now, though. She really seems to like linux |
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| 06:10.14 | ShaggyInc | never had such an awesome laptop as her, now I really just want a PADD as my next device |
| 06:10.19 | james41382 | This laptop I got from Dell has taken to Wheezy really well too I feel. Everything worked out of the box seems like.. I've really been enjoying using linux again. |
| 06:10.45 | james41382 | Getting late here.. off to bed. Night.. |
| 06:11.03 | urandom_ | bye james |
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| 06:11.13 | urandom_ | always practice safe HEX |
| 06:11.35 | FaTony | I don't like the fact that laptops get old rather fast and performance is poor, I've been continuously upgrading my desktop since 2002 |
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| 06:12.19 | urandom_ | hah, you're probably not gonna believe when I tell you... |
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| 06:13.02 | urandom_ | that my newest laptop has a Pentium-M single-core @ 2GHZ, 1GB RAM (though it could be upgraded to 2) |
| 06:13.34 | FaTony | urandom_, ouch |
| 06:14.22 | ShaggyInc | FaTony: i don't like the fact that towerpc's lack a battery, screen and portability |
| 06:14.51 | urandom_ | got it like a year ago on ebay for around $90- |
| 06:15.31 | urandom_ | What I'm using right now has a whopping 2 GB of RAM! but CPU is only Celeron @ 1.4 GHZ |
| 06:15.43 | ShaggyInc | i don't buy anything with any kind of storage second hand |
| 06:15.47 | anton_dutsov | Hello everybody! I'm new to this room and I'm fascinated from Debian. |
| 06:16.00 | ShaggyInc | by* |
| 06:16.45 | anton_dutsov | I'm about to buy new Laptop and this conversation is really interesting me:) |
| 06:16.54 | ShaggyInc | its a kickass distro, simply because its so boring |
| 06:17.04 | FaTony | ShaggyInc, hah, to each his own I guess, but we should be able to assemble our own laptops from spare parts |
| 06:17.36 | urandom_ | ShaggyInc: I wiped the drive before using |
| 06:17.52 | ShaggyInc | indeed, fatony. Not being able to diy a laptop is a lack of free market competition |
| 06:18.12 | FaTony | I liked Debian the most because it used GNOME 2, right now I've switched to MATE, I'm GNU/Linux noob so I've judged distros by what they've showed on screen |
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| 06:19.00 | Myrtti | anton_dutsov: two weeks of extensive homework on the subject and Ill probably get Dell XPS 13 sputnik |
| 06:19.36 | Myrtti | going to smack Debian on it though |
| 06:19.38 | ShaggyInc | fatony: if you like outdated desktops, try Trinity KDE |
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| 06:19.41 | urandom_ | This is a really neat script I picked-up at some blog: <code>cat /dev/zero | pv -brtp -s {size of drive} | dd of=/dev/sdX</code> ("X"= letter of drive to be wiped) |
| 06:19.54 | ShaggyInc | or be really hardcore and go CDE |
| 06:20.54 | urandom_ | Debian is great at being low-resource-consuming; can be great for old hardware |
| 06:20.58 | FaTony | ShaggyInc, Trinity looks rather nice |
| 06:21.07 | ShaggyInc | FaTony: KDE3.x pwned everything coming from Gnome, Mint and Canonical nowadays |
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| 06:22.43 | urandom_ | BTW, that script ^ can be used for cloning a drive or writing an ISO to USB |
| 06:22.57 | ShaggyInc | too bad MATE gets more attention than Trinity, but maybe that's b/c K4 didn't fuck up nearly as much desktop-concept-wise compared to gnome3 |
| 06:23.28 | urandom_ | If you have pv installed, you get a real-time progress bar |
| 06:23.57 | ShaggyInc | pv should come by default, as should tree |
| 06:24.27 | anton_dutsov | Myrtti: Why 13"? I never had smaller than 15.6", now I'm using 17". |
| 06:24.37 | ShaggyInc | i use tree to create an index-file for my external harddisk |
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| 06:25.13 | urandom_ | ShaggyInc: Does pv come installed on all Debians? |
| 06:25.18 | Myrtti | anton_dutsov: travel a lot |
| 06:25.24 | peterrooney | ShaggyInc: both tree AND pv are optional. |
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| 06:25.45 | anton_dutsov | Myrtti: Portability, got it :) |
| 06:26.03 | urandom_ | peterrooney: I've definitely had to install pv but I can't recall on which distros |
| 06:26.14 | Myrtti | big is painful at airports, and buses |
| 06:26.22 | ShaggyInc | peterrooney: i know |
| 06:26.58 | urandom_ | Speaking of portable... |
| 06:27.01 | anton_dutsov | Myrtti: which brands are best for Linux distros? I looked at HP ProBook 4540 and Dell. |
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| 06:27.33 | urandom_ | I just ordered a 4" Android 4.2 tablet for $40- |
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| 06:28.11 | anton_dutsov | urandom_: congrats :) |
| 06:28.30 | urandom_ | Is there a way to install Debian (or any other GNU/Linux distro) on an Android tablet? |
| 06:29.10 | anton_dutsov | urandom_: I saw some ytube videos whit ubuntu but never try it. |
| 06:29.13 | urandom_ | From what I could find from searching, didn't look so simple |
| 06:29.20 | urandom_ | (to say the least) |
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| 06:29.52 | urandom_ | thanks anton_dutsov |
| 06:29.54 | Myrtti | anton_dutsov: dell xps 13 sputnik comes with Ubuntu so it should work with any distro, the chipset is a Good Intel one. some distros are better than others, just stick to the most popular ones And you're Good |
| 06:30.01 | ShaggyInc | urandom_: root it and theres tons of apps in Play |
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| 06:31.22 | Myrtti | gah stupid autocorrect |
| 06:31.24 | urandom_ | ShaggyInc: thanks but I'm not so happy about using a proprietary OS , by Google *or* Apple even less so than MS |
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| 06:31.59 | urandom_ | (I consider both Google as well as Apple more evil than MS) |
| 06:32.12 | ShaggyInc | urandom_: then dont use GooglePlay/GApps |
| 06:32.29 | ShaggyInc | urandom_: Android is OSS except for the GApps |
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| 06:33.21 | urandom_ | but, OTOH, I figured I should at least know my way around Android at least a little |
| 06:33.57 | urandom_ | and, of course, I could say the same for Windows, which I haven't used since XP |
| 06:34.26 | ShaggyInc | WXP is 0,0% OSS |
| 06:34.32 | anton_dutsov | Myrtti: My only concerns are whit WiFi card. How good are the drivers for LinuxOS. |
| 06:35.06 | Myrtti | urandom_: afaik getting _debian_ on any of them is nigh on impossible, even Ubuntu has images only for few devices |
| 06:35.20 | ShaggyInc | my main gripe with android is that it hides my sweet linux powers, which I know are in the device |
| 06:35.24 | urandom_ | thanks Myrtti |
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| 06:36.10 | tapout | My ipv6 won't work with ... post-up /sbin/ip -f inet6 route add fe80::1 dev eth0 and then ... post-up /sbin/ip -f inet6 route add default via fe80::1 |
| 06:36.11 | Myrtti | anton_dutsov: bar few old exceptions Intel works |
| 06:36.15 | tapout | it doesn't get the 'default route' |
| 06:36.16 | ShaggyInc | if only Jobs would've died sooner, the world would use Maemo... :( |
| 06:36.20 | urandom_ | BTW, if a nick is typed verbatim but not at the very begninning and not followed by :, does it always highlight for that user? |
| 06:36.44 | tapout | ipv6 will only kick in if I do: ip -6 route add ::/0 via fe80::1 dev eth0 |
| 06:36.44 | Myrtti | urandom_: depends on their clients |
| 06:36.46 | tapout | why is that? |
| 06:36.48 | ShaggyInc | but google had to make an iPhoney |
| 06:37.06 | Dagger2 | tapout: just use `ip -6 route add default via fe80::1 dev eth0` |
| 06:37.06 | urandom_ | so, then, Myrtti, did this sentence highlight for you? |
| 06:37.18 | Myrtti | urandom_: yes |
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| 06:37.30 | urandom_ | ok, Myrtti, thanks, good to know |
| 06:37.34 | ShaggyInc | well, urandom, does it do so for you? |
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| 06:38.10 | urandom_ | no, ShaggyInc, just same ordinary black text for me in Xchat (on Kanotix) |
| 06:38.34 | urandom_ | ShaggyInc: but thanks for testing for me |
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| 06:39.18 | tapout | Dagger2, you mean in like /etc/rc.local? or something? |
| 06:39.37 | Dagger2 | tapout: in post-up should work fine |
| 06:39.49 | tapout | post-up /sbin/ip -6 route add default via fe80::1 dev eth0 |
| 06:39.53 | tapout | err sorry |
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| 06:40.24 | urandom_ | About Android, my main problem isn't so much the proprietary aspect, per se, (though I'm not thrilled about it) but more the fact that it's the Big, Bad G-Monster |
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| 06:41.08 | urandom_ | All the massive tracking and data-mining, etc. but I realize this gets off-topic, so I'll stop |
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| 06:42.07 | tapout | what's the g-monster? |
| 06:42.12 | tapout | google-monster? |
| 06:42.18 | urandom_ | tapout: yes |
| 06:42.39 | urandom_ | The Googlestein (as in Frankenstein), as I call it, |
| 06:42.51 | urandom_ | tracking my every click... |
| 06:42.54 | tapout | the classic line, if you have nothing to hide... |
| 06:43.33 | urandom_ | tapout: don't tell me you are actually invoking that line... |
| 06:43.37 | tapout | and i'm being sarcastic. Last night at a gathering we were talking about this and a guy said that to me. I said, well.. if that's the case... why does city council have closed door meetings if they have nothing to hide? |
| 06:43.39 | tapout | :) |
| 06:43.41 | tapout | no |
| 06:43.46 | FaTony | urandom_, what is preventing you from using Replicant? |
| 06:43.47 | tapout | it's silly |
| 06:43.55 | urandom_ | sighs w/ relief |
| 06:43.58 | tapout | i put tape on my cameras on my nexus |
| 06:44.16 | FaTony | why have a cellphone at all? |
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| 06:45.07 | tapout | urandom_, here in Calgary .. they are putting up cameras everywhere and said it's for 'traffic management'. So I called the city number ... 311.. asked if they can control the traffic anywhere... he said nope. In new york .. they actually have the ability to control traffic. |
| 06:45.17 | urandom_ | yes, tapout, you could have also asked him if whether he covers the windows in his bedroom and bathroom... |
| 06:45.35 | urandom_ | and whether he would be willing to setup a webcam for you ;) |
| 06:45.40 | tapout | I'm scared for our future.. ah well .. we are all ruled at the end of the day. |
| 06:45.53 | tapout | lol, nah these people are nice and not the type i want to do that to |
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| 06:46.06 | tapout | but anyone else, sure that's a great argument |
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| 06:46.33 | tapout | Dagger2, why does that work on reboot whereas the default lines before didn't? so strange |
| 06:46.39 | tapout | it's so similar .. |
| 06:46.47 | tapout | ah well, ping6 google.com responds so It's all good |
| 06:47.27 | Dagger2 | tapout: I guess your default route was rejected because it didn't specify an interface for the address, which is required anywhere link-locals are used |
| 06:47.43 | urandom_ | well, actually tapout, since you mentioned /public/ surveillance cameras, I have to say that I'm inclined to be in favor of them |
| 06:47.50 | urandom_ | the key word being /public/ |
| 06:48.05 | tapout | Dagger2, it's strange because that is what hetzner gave me and .. that's what leaseweb uses on theirs and it works on leaseweb. Anyways thanks for helping me. :) |
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| 06:48.39 | urandom_ | hetzner.de ? That's what kanotix.com uses |
| 06:48.51 | Dagger2 | tapout: hm. ugh at people that manage datacenters doing dumb things with v6 :/ |
| 06:49.05 | urandom_ | was down late last week for a while |
| 06:49.18 | tapout | urandom_, you just have to look at England for a case where it fails. I saw stats that showed ... only 7% of major crimes were solved, whereas ticket enforcement was in the high 90's. Now I know stats can be manipulated but I truly feel that's what they're used for. |
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| 06:49.54 | urandom_ | bbs |
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| 06:50.32 | tapout | hetzner is nice |
| 06:50.47 | tapout | bbs? wanna play some tradewars? |
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| 06:52.47 | tapout | *crickets*.. terrible comedian :) |
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| 06:55.20 | urandom_ | tapout: was tradewars a game on BBS (Bulletin Board System)? |
| 06:56.05 | tapout | yeah |
| 06:56.29 | urandom_ | Since privacy , tracking and surveillance came-up, I must ask: How many ppl here are aware of the marriage b/w Debian Live and Tor? |
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| 06:56.55 | urandom_ | And what a beautiful union it is... |
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| 06:57.01 | tapout | not I |
| 06:57.40 | urandom_ | tapout, you really don't know of what I speak? Of Tails, https://tails.boum.org |
| 06:58.29 | tapout | oh that's sweet |
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| 06:59.57 | urandom_ | Like Kanotix, Tails has handled at least three different aging laptops with aplomb and grace |
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| 07:13.20 | tapout | we killed the channel |
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| 07:15.21 | urandom_ | hi entrants |
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| 07:42.53 | zeeflo | babilen, u around? |
| 07:43.52 | zeeflo | or abrotman ? |
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| 08:00.44 | sett | anyone know how to remove alsa? did apt-get autoremove --purge alsa-base alsa-utils but that seems not enough |
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| 08:08.08 | bhuddah_ | does autoremove take package names as parameters? |
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| 08:10.21 | spoonbender | hi, i have 22 GB ~ and i guess(!) this contains pretty much all i need to backup. maybe i add /etc with additional 17MB. I have a 360GB external USB HDD, with 75GB available. Two questions: 1) would you recommend me to have the backup hdd permanently connected and use an automated backup routine, or is it better to manually connect the hdd and backup? 2) Depending on question 1, what program/routine do you recommend for backups in my case? (it's all us |
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| 08:13.03 | Shi3A | spoonbender: sudo mount -o uid=1000,gid=1000 /dev/sdb1 /mnt/external; rsync -avz /home/USERNAME /mnt/external/backup =) |
| 08:13.06 | pseudonym_1000 | also support is in the linux kernel so you'd probably have to reconfigure the kernel to remove the built-in alsa support |
| 08:13.10 | pseudonym_1000 | alsa* |
| 08:13.30 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: what do you want protection against? |
| 08:14.25 | spoonbender | Shi3A: is that incremental/differential? |
| 08:14.43 | bhuddah_ | one single backup |
| 08:14.59 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: i want to protect against loss of files |
| 08:15.07 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: and ,y working time invested in files ;) |
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| 08:15.37 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: i was thinking about weekly backups or even daily, depending on what is possible/recommend |
| 08:15.46 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: accidential deletion? reversion to old versions of the same files? protection against the environment or burglary? |
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| 08:16.14 | pseudonym_1000 | bhuddah_: autoclean in apt-get and auto-clean in aptitude don't take additional options |
| 08:16.30 | pseudonym_1000 | at least according to their man pages |
| 08:16.54 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: if possible i'd like to have one monthly (or weekly) backup and one daily backup if possible. my main concern is that i lose or destroy my laptop |
| 08:16.57 | pseudonym_1000 | which i think is supposed to be implied with auto, but i can still see the potential for ambiguity |
| 08:17.05 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: for now i don't protect against file corruption |
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| 08:17.37 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: so the target is to prevent data on a mobile desktop computer to get lost? |
| 08:17.46 | spoonbender | yes |
| 08:17.55 | urandom_ | about backup: for critical data, keep at least /two/ duplicates, in two discrete locations |
| 08:17.58 | peterrooney | spoonbender: rsync is excellent for mirroring, rdiff-backup for backups |
| 08:18.02 | spoonbender | no need for system backups, it's just about the data |
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| 08:18.39 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: i'm using crashplan for that. |
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| 08:18.47 | spoonbender | urandom_: currently i only have an external usb hdd |
| 08:18.51 | Shi3A | spoonbender: AFAIR, rsync can both: incremental and differential. man rsync |
| 08:19.02 | spoonbender | Shi3A: ok |
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| 08:19.37 | peterrooney | spoonbender: s/backups/incremental backups/ |
| 08:19.43 | urandom_ | spoonbender: For anything truly /critical/, you should have at least one additional copy |
| 08:20.04 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: can crashplan let old backups expire? |
| 08:20.17 | bhuddah_ | i have no idea. |
| 08:20.32 | spoonbender | urandom_: ok |
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| 08:20.47 | bhuddah_ | have not needed this. but i think there is an option for expiry |
| 08:21.18 | spoonbender | hm, what about my first question: better have the usb hdd aorund all the time for automated backups, or better have it stashed away and manually attach it for backups? |
| 08:21.18 | urandom_ | spoonbender: Remember, "No amount of profanity will get your data back" :) |
| 08:22.08 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: depends on protection against burglary and so on. |
| 08:22.18 | spoonbender | urandom_: ;) |
| 08:22.24 | bhuddah_ | accidential deletion of all the backups is a small risk i think |
| 08:23.20 | peterrooney | spoonbender: "When I'm paranoid, even *I'm* out to get me." Are you in the habit of running rm -f as root? I alias rm to rm -i just to be safe. |
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| 08:24.00 | spoonbender | peterrooney: no i don't do that... i barely use root |
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| 08:24.15 | peterrooney | Burglary falls under "physical access trumps all security measures" |
| 08:24.59 | spoonbender | well, i have a small room in a house that is built like a hotel. think of it as students home, but with "normal" people |
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| 08:25.06 | spoonbender | my door is not very safe |
| 08:25.27 | urandom_ | spoonbender: Using the cloud as /one/ copy is at least better than /no/ duplicate-- barring the /privacy/ concerns, of course |
| 08:25.36 | spoonbender | urandom_: sure |
| 08:25.58 | urandom_ | ofc, you can encrypt locally before uploading to the cloud |
| 08:26.02 | spoonbender | urandom_: i was thinking of that too... maybe a friend of mine will be so nice to give me ssh access to his private server |
| 08:26.29 | spoonbender | urandom_: then i would rsync my (crypted) data to him additionaly |
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| 08:26.51 | spoonbender | but before turing to that i want to start my backups on the ext. hdd |
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| 08:27.12 | urandom_ | spoonbender: I suppose it couldn't hurt to ask, if you don't think your friend would mind |
| 08:28.04 | spoonbender | urandom_: ? don't get your question. but surely i will ask him if he has about 30GB spare for me |
| 08:28.06 | joltcan | spoonbender/urandom: since I'm lazy I use the free version of crashplan for that. It encrypts locally by key or passwd, and it works on linux/osx/win |
| 08:28.15 | joltcan | awezome for stuff like that |
| 08:28.39 | joltcan | even backs up my parents computers etc, and easy for sharing drive space |
| 08:28.43 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: you could buy an additional usb disk for the remote end ;) |
| 08:29.07 | bhuddah_ | and crashplan has that friend/share option already build in |
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| 08:30.07 | spoonbender | anyone of ouy know dirvish? just came across it... it seems to be very good with with backup management. i think it is differential and it let's old backups expire in case new backups are successful |
| 08:30.13 | urandom_ | joltcan: When you say, "it encrypts"... |
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| 08:31.02 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: you will probably need more than local backups. |
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| 08:31.26 | bhuddah_ | otherwise dirvish is fine. |
| 08:31.38 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: do you know dirvish? |
| 08:31.48 | urandom_ | joltcan: any encryption should be done entirely on /your/ system, if a 3rd party does any encryption, then you have to trust /them/ and that's never good |
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| 08:32.10 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: i tried dirvish and some other of that local copy and hardlink backup solutions. |
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| 08:32.30 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: how did they work out? |
| 08:32.55 | bhuddah_ | it works good for servers with permanent connection to the backup drive. |
| 08:33.16 | bhuddah_ | i think it's to complicated for a client pc |
| 08:33.25 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: wich returns me to my question: permanently connect the hdd to the system or not? |
| 08:33.30 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: you're probly right. |
| 08:33.42 | urandom_ | also, yes, bhuddah, external drives can be acquired relatively inexpensively |
| 08:33.52 | bhuddah_ | then yes. with some user-ready tool like crashplan you don't need to think a lot about it. |
| 08:34.14 | bhuddah_ | there are some alternatives. |
| 08:34.26 | bhuddah_ | all offer cloud storage. some offer a limited amount free |
| 08:34.30 | urandom_ | I think I just saw 1TB at NewEgg for $60- or $70-, but that for someone w/ limited income, that could still be difficult |
| 08:34.34 | bhuddah_ | but none are open source -.- |
| 08:34.50 | pseudonym_1000 | urandom_: not to mention crashplan is not open source, so you really can't trust anything it does imho |
| 08:35.25 | spoonbender | well, maybe in that case falling back to a simple rsync one-liner is my best go? |
| 08:35.45 | bhuddah_ | if one backup is enough for you. |
| 08:35.55 | bhuddah_ | so no point in time recovery. |
| 08:35.59 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: oh. no, i want two |
| 08:36.21 | bhuddah_ | yeah, you can do any number of backups with additional amount of work :) |
| 08:36.43 | pseudonym_1000 | rsync is the way to go, there are open source front-ends to make it easier iirc |
| 08:37.08 | urandom_ | never rely on only one backup, unless you're prepared to live without that data |
| 08:37.12 | ui_ | if you're worried about burglars, I think you should not keep the hd always attached |
| 08:37.18 | bhuddah_ | IF you plan to fall back to something simple as rsync you can use dirvish or the likes.. |
| 08:37.38 | pseudonym_1000 | you'd want to unmount an encrypted filesystem when it's not being used, ideally |
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| 08:37.59 | spoonbender | yes |
| 08:38.05 | spoonbender | anyone tried backupninja? |
| 08:38.16 | pseudonym_1000 | i've been looking into encrypting my RAM |
| 08:38.22 | pseudonym_1000 | to prevent the cold boot |
| 08:38.47 | urandom_ | pseudonym_1000: Tails wipes RAM at shutdown :) |
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| 08:38.47 | spoonbender | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch10.en.html#_backup_utility_suites |
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| 08:38.54 | spoonbender | https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecovery |
| 08:39.35 | spoonbender | that are the two sites i'm currently looking at - just have to find a solution that fits me. somehow i feel that most things are either too much or too little for my case :P |
| 08:40.12 | Shi3A | spoonbender: Bacula - bacula.org |
| 08:40.14 | urandom_ | About cold-boot, I don't recall whether or not there's even been an actual, documented, real-world case of one being successfully carried-out |
| 08:40.20 | bhuddah_ | bacula is overkill! |
| 08:40.25 | Shi3A | okay... |
| 08:40.26 | urandom_ | but I realize that gets off-topic |
| 08:40.37 | spoonbender | Shi3A: afaik bacula is enterprise - so way to much -no? |
| 08:41.47 | urandom_ | oh, and yes, encryption can only protect when the data is at rest |
| 08:41.59 | pseudonym_1000 | urandom_: yeah i know, but i need a physical-based OS for work i need to do/performance-wise |
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| 08:42.19 | spoonbender | i think it will be either dirvish or rdiff-backup |
| 08:42.23 | pseudonym_1000 | and urandom_ : i believe there are documented, real world applications for cold boot attacks on RAM |
| 08:42.31 | pseudonym_1000 | i'll try to find one if you're interested |
| 08:42.55 | bhuddah_ | i think there are references in ross andersons security engineering book. |
| 08:43.08 | urandom_ | pseudonym_1000: of course, I realize Tails cannot substitute for a regular OS, but I just had to mention that |
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| 08:43.40 | spoonbender | rdiff-backup backs up one directory to another, possibly over a network. The target directory ends up a copy of the source directory, but extra reverse diffs are stored in a special subdirectory of that target directory, so you can still recover files lost some time ago. |
| 08:43.43 | urandom_ | since I know of no other OS that wipes ram upon shutdown the way Tails do |
| 08:43.55 | spoonbender | ^ does that mean it can handle several backups? |
| 08:43.57 | pseudonym_1000 | well, i know that people have setup their own systems and cold boot attacked them by cooling the RAM and dumping it, allowing at least some of the data to be retained, potentially keys |
| 08:44.12 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: yes. |
| 08:44.19 | bhuddah_ | incremental |
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| 08:44.33 | pseudonym_1000 | but yes, tails is a good thing for the right people |
| 08:44.59 | spoonbender | is there a difference between incremental and differential? i get different result with google :( |
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| 08:45.40 | spoonbender | ok, i see there IS a difference |
| 08:46.26 | urandom_ | about cold-boot, I certainly know it's /possible/...and never /denied/ that it had been achieved...just saying I had reason to question |
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| 08:47.09 | gnarface | spoonbender: there's a difference in the actual definition of the word but i'm pretty sure rdiff-backup is actually both incremental and differential even though it probably |
| 08:47.15 | gnarface | doesn't say that |
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| 08:47.48 | bhuddah_ | decremental ^^ |
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| 08:48.03 | bhuddah_ | i have no idea.. |
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| 08:48.20 | bhuddah_ | but storing old versions of changes files is neither incremental nor differential |
| 08:48.34 | spoonbender | true |
| 08:48.46 | bhuddah_ | at least if you stick to a strict definition |
| 08:48.53 | urandom_ | W/ the preface that this probably isn't what you're asking about... just want to mention that Clonezilla , which is included in Parted Magic, can be quite good for imaging |
| 08:49.03 | urandom_ | Taking whole-system snapshots |
| 08:49.07 | spoonbender | differential = stores the changes to the last FULL backup, incremental = stores the changes to the last INCREMENTAL backup. correct? |
| 08:49.14 | bhuddah_ | but it is more of an incremental type because it grows without distinct limits |
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| 08:49.45 | bhuddah_ | spoonbender: no.. not really... incremental stores the changes to the last backup. no matter what type |
| 08:49.46 | spoonbender | urandom_: no need for the wohle system - just want my data |
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| 08:50.06 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: ok, i meant that - didn't express it correcntly |
| 08:50.08 | pseudonym_1000 | urandom_: yeah no doubt, wasn't attacking what you said |
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| 08:50.17 | pseudonym_1000 | regarding cold boot attacks |
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| 08:50.46 | pseudonym_1000 | haven't seen a documented case of a LEA/LEO using it against someone to get evidence used in court |
| 08:50.49 | urandom_ | spoonbender: ok, but it's still good to image your drive or partition every so often, isn't it? So if you need to rebuild, you don't have to do so from scratch |
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| 08:51.33 | arafangion | My DVD drive ejects when running gnome, but not when running window maker? What gives? |
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| 08:51.47 | arafangion | ('eject', as a command, works just fine) |
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| 08:52.08 | urandom_ | pseudonym_1000: Not to worry, didn't take anything as "attack" :) |
| 08:52.21 | sett | anyone experienced in realtek sound driver compiling? |
| 08:52.23 | spoonbender | bhuddah_: urandom_ to be honest - i toy around with my system way too much anyway :P o rebuild from scratch usually is a bit in my interest :D |
| 08:52.36 | bhuddah_ | hehehe |
| 08:52.41 | arafangion | sett: Why don't you ask your real question? |
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| 08:53.41 | urandom_ | spoonbender: understood, I take it you keep a list of all your installed pkges |
| 08:54.11 | spoonbender | urandom_: yes. |
| 08:54.29 | arafangion | spoonbender: You don't automate it in any way? |
| 08:55.02 | sett | arafangion, when compiling sound driver i get this "Please install the package with full kernel sources for your distribution |
| 08:55.03 | sett | or use --with-kernel=dir option to specify another directory with kernel" got kernel source downloaded and done as advised but not working |
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| 08:55.37 | sett | using --with-kernel=/usr/src/linux-source-3.2 |
| 08:55.47 | urandom_ | Toast? twotoasts.de is Midori site |
| 08:55.52 | urandom_ | any connection? |
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| 08:56.11 | spoonbender | arafangion: well, if i'd reinstall often automation would pay of |
| 08:56.28 | spoonbender | arafangion: maybe i reinstall ever 1,5 to two years |
| 08:56.46 | bhuddah_ | sett: have you done so? |
| 08:56.47 | spoonbender | also i hop a lot between debian and ubuntu |
| 08:57.24 | bhuddah_ | sett: i mean.. you have installed the full kernel sources for the kernel you are running? |
| 08:57.29 | urandom_ | nice to have that compatibility, b/w deb and ubuntu, isn't it then? |
| 08:57.32 | spoonbender | that's an other reason why i want my data only - stroring systemdata is not really helpful for me |
| 08:57.47 | spoonbender | apart from some /etc stuff like keys and what not |
| 08:58.11 | sett | bhuddah_> i've done apt-get install lunux-source-3.2 and then unarchived the bz file |
| 08:58.23 | arafangion | spoonbender: Well, I usually use package managers to maintain such a list. |
| 08:58.34 | sett | root@debian:/usr/src# ls |
| 08:58.34 | sett | linux-patch-3.2-rt.patch.bz2 linux-source-3.2linux-source-3.2.tar.bz2 |
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| 08:58.49 | spoonbender | hm, rdiff-backup and duplicity are both from nongnu.org |
| 08:58.55 | bhuddah | sett: what is the output of "uname -a"? |
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| 08:59.09 | spoonbender | arafangion: yes, but sometimes packages are called differently in debian and ubuntu |
| 08:59.11 | sett | bhuddah, Linux debian 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.46-1 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
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| 08:59.20 | spoonbender | also i know by package selection by heart :P |
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| 08:59.36 | arafangion | spoonbender: Ah, yes, so you need to reconcile your favorite selections. |
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| 09:00.05 | urandom_ | BTW, when I mentioned Clonezilla but not dd and cat...I suspect I gave myself away as the pathetic wannabe I am... |
| 09:00.14 | bhuddah | sett: have you tried the compilation without the additional parameter after installing the sources? |
| 09:00.26 | arafangion | urandom_: I'm sure Clonezilla has nice features. |
| 09:00.31 | spoonbender | arafangion: yes. so i usually go for the packages i recall instantly, wich will cover 90% of what i need. the rest will be downloaded when needed |
| 09:00.47 | arafangion | spoonbender: Fair enough. Why do you alternate between ubuntu and debian, anyway? |
| 09:01.01 | spoonbender | arafangion: i can't decide :/ |
| 09:01.03 | arafangion | spoonbender: I find ubuntu annoying, although I did have a brief (6 month) foray into ubuntu. |
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| 09:01.17 | sett | bhuddah, ye, do u know why it leave sources in bz archives and does not unarchive itself? |
| 09:01.29 | sett | bhuddah, is that ok? |
| 09:01.48 | bhuddah | sett: i don't know why.. i think this .deb is just a container. |
| 09:01.50 | urandom_ | arafangion: Yes but would real hacker, comfortable w/ dd, cat and any number of other CLI utils, bother w/ the likes of Clonezilla? |
| 09:01.58 | bhuddah | sett: what do you mean by "is that ok"? |
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| 09:02.26 | arafangion | urandom_: Yes. |
| 09:02.26 | spoonbender | arafangion: i like ubuntu because somethings are just easier (to me) - but on the other hand i like debian because it makes a "cleaner" impression on me. i see that ubuntu sometimes is a bit sloppy |
| 09:02.47 | arafangion | spoonbender: Ubuntu trades stability for convenience. |
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| 09:03.05 | sett | i've manually unarchived only one archive from linux-patch-3.2-rt.patch.bz2 linux-source-3.2.tar.bz2 should i unarchive both? |
| 09:03.07 | spoonbender | arafangion: yes - and that's the reason i why i can't decide :P |
| 09:03.08 | urandom_ | thanks <arafangion>, you make me feel better |
| 09:03.10 | urandom_ | :) |
| 09:03.13 | Roland- | hello, simple question: how do I give write access to multiple users which are not in the same group ? |
| 09:03.22 | bhuddah | sett: absolutely |
| 09:03.23 | pseudonym_1000 | with a little time and reading i've found i can make wheezy debian do everything i previously wanted ubuntu to do, without the extra ubuntu bloat |
| 09:03.32 | arafangion | urandom_: Btw, a real hacker wouldn't use dd without knowing the correct block size. |
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| 09:03.40 | arafangion | urandom_: Which is non-trivial these days. |
| 09:03.58 | pseudonym_1000 | from just doing an alternate net install of debian 7 with a light window manager like XFCE |
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| 09:04.31 | spoonbender | arafangion: what hurts me most in debian is that the packages are sometimes to old for what i need - and i think that me fiddling with backports/PPA is more dangerous/tiresome than using ubuntu |
| 09:04.35 | urandom_ | Debian is also far less resource-hungry than Ubuntu |
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| 09:04.41 | IOMonster | Hello good people of #debian, I've got a super quick (hopefully) question for y'all... is anyone aware of any issues with "balance-rr" mode of the bonding driver for debian/ubuntu when using the igb (intel gigabit) NICs ? |
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| 09:05.15 | arafangion | spoonbender: You can manually backport, as well, or find alternatives. |
| 09:05.20 | bhuddah | IOMonster: have you encountered an issue? |
| 09:05.40 | arafangion | IOMonster: Failing that, have you checked the bug database? |
| 09:05.51 | IOMonster | bhuddah: yes indeed, in both debian and ubuntu (haven't tried anything like centos yet) |
| 09:05.51 | urandom_ | arafangion: Funny you should mention block size (bs)... |
| 09:05.52 | spoonbender | arafangion: well - but that's the point where i start to fiddle with my productive system :P |
| 09:06.03 | bhuddah | IOMonster: can you elaborate on what you found? |
| 09:06.07 | IOMonster | i have my switch set up properly, i've even put the ports into a channel-group too |
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| 09:06.20 | IOMonster | bhuddah: alrighty, the setup is fairly basic |
| 09:06.25 | arafangion | spoonbender: WHy? |
| 09:06.38 | spoonbender | ? |
| 09:06.39 | IOMonster | i have a powerconnect 5448, and two servers (well, more than that, but for now two will suffice) |
| 09:06.51 | IOMonster | powerconnect has two vlans on it, 10 and 13 |
| 09:06.57 | IOMonster | 10 is my private network |
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| 09:07.10 | IOMonster | server A has a quad port intel gigabit card in it |
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| 09:07.21 | spoonbender | arafangion: i need a specific version of a package, i start to backport and what not and suddenly i get from 1 over 10 to 1000 :/ |
| 09:07.24 | IOMonster | and all four ports on the expansion card are set to access mode for vlan 10 |
| 09:07.36 | IOMonster | then on the second server, i have two onboard ports (igb as well) |
| 09:07.44 | spoonbender | arafangion: but i think that's ot anyway - by backup question is more or less solved |
| 09:07.52 | IOMonster | however both ports have vlan tagging on them (switch in trunk mode) |
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| 09:08.00 | arafangion | spoonbender: Fair enough. ANyway, startrek time. |
| 09:08.04 | IOMonster | and i'm using balance-rr mode on both servers |
| 09:08.16 | IOMonster | with MTU set to 9000, and the switch has jumbo frames enabled |
| 09:08.17 | urandom_ | arafangion: Will fdisk -l accurately report bs? |
| 09:08.25 | IOMonster | when i run a iperf, i only receive ~900mbps |
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| 09:08.33 | arafangion | urandom_: I don't believe so. |
| 09:08.55 | IOMonster | strangely enough, on a nearly identical setup using ubuntu 10.04, i was able to achieve 1.5gbps with a dual port nic |
| 09:09.00 | IOMonster | and balance-rr |
| 09:09.17 | urandom_ | arafangion: I've seen conflicting suggestions about which bs to add to dd |
| 09:09.36 | arafangion | urandom_: What a surprise. |
| 09:09.47 | bhuddah | IOMonster: have you used an identically compiled and configured iperf? |
| 09:09.56 | IOMonster | bhuddah: yes indeed |
| 09:10.05 | urandom_ | arafangion: bs=4096, bs=512, bs=1M, and even bs=4M ! |
| 09:10.18 | IOMonster | currently both machines are running ubuntu 12.04.3, i had tried debian earlier today |
| 09:10.30 | IOMonster | and i received the same output |
| 09:10.32 | bhuddah | IOMonster: no. i mean in the two different tests. |
| 09:10.36 | arafangion | urandom_: Depends on the physical circuitry and layout. |
| 09:10.38 | IOMonster | ah |
| 09:10.49 | arafangion | urandom_: And also buffer sizes. :) |
| 09:11.01 | urandom_ | arafangion: I've tried at least up to 1M and they all seemed to work for me, |
| 09:11.03 | IOMonster | bhuddah: you think the iperf utility is giving me false readings? |
| 09:11.11 | bhuddah | because i think you can't compare it when it does not match... at least not enough. |
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| 09:11.14 | arafangion | urandom_: Just nto optimal. Just use 'cat' instead. |
| 09:11.31 | bhuddah | IOMonster: all your readings are a bit odd. |
| 09:11.35 | IOMonster | bhuddah: indeed they are |
| 09:11.41 | bhuddah | IOMonster: have you tried using a different switch? |
| 09:11.47 | IOMonster | not yet, that's on my list |
| 09:11.48 | joltcan | urandom_: encryption on your end, and you can select between passwd, passwd+key or just key |
| 09:11.55 | IOMonster | i've got a powerconnect 6248 to try with too |
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| 09:12.06 | bhuddah | IOMonster: try that first. try a different manufacturer. |
| 09:12.07 | arafangion | urandom_: ANyway, you are interrupting my startrek. Stop talking to me. :) I've never seen this episode. (Yes, I'm a hermit) |
| 09:12.18 | arafangion | urandom_: So please kindly shut up. :) |
| 09:12.27 | IOMonster | bhuddah: unfortunately my budget didn't provide for anything nicer ;) |
| 09:12.45 | bhuddah | IOMonster: just try to bully someone into borrowing you one for an hour or so |
| 09:13.05 | IOMonster | haha, i work at a datacenter, so hardware isn't an issue... but hardware i can keep is a different story |
| 09:13.15 | urandom_ | arafangion: actually, I've been using this script that combines cat and dd , found it at a blog |
| 09:13.28 | arafangion | growls. |
| 09:13.45 | IOMonster | bhuddah: are you aware of any way to check if the bottleneck is the switch's forwarding rate? |
| 09:13.53 | urandom_ | arafangion: sorry about the Star Trek |
| 09:14.09 | arafangion | urandom_: No problem, have a good day! :) |
| 09:14.14 | bhuddah | IOMonster: well. then fetch yourself a nice 6500 with |
| 09:14.31 | bhuddah | IOMonster: -with |
| 09:14.33 | urandom_ | arafangion: thanks, but can I at least tell you the script... |
| 09:14.51 | IOMonster | bhuddah: hm? |
| 09:15.17 | IOMonster | bhuddah: i've got a cisco 6509 laying around, but no time to configure it |
| 09:15.18 | pseudonym_1000 | IOMonster: a catalyst 6500 |
| 09:15.25 | bhuddah | IOMonster: in reality.. any cisco switch will do. just to have a good testing bed. |
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| 09:15.51 | bhuddah | IOMonster: just plug it in. it should do switching without setup :) |
| 09:15.52 | urandom_ | cat {file or /dev to be copied } | pv -brtp -s {size to be copied}| dd of={device to copy-to} bs=X |
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| 09:16.18 | IOMonster | bhuddah: nope, it's all set to a dead vlan, it was our old core switch... i'd have to reset it |
| 09:16.20 | pseudonym_1000 | IOMonster: and it can tell you if it's hardware backplane is being overloaded |
| 09:16.25 | IOMonster | it was doing BGP as an edge router too |
| 09:16.29 | pseudonym_1000 | its* |
| 09:16.41 | IOMonster | pseudonym_1000: good point |
| 09:16.41 | bhuddah | IOMonster: if you plug all ports in the same "dead" vlan, it isn't dead anymore... :) |
| 09:16.53 | IOMonster | bhuddah: you do indeed have a point haha |
| 09:17.02 | urandom_ | any comments on that script? Gives you real time progress bar if you have pv |
| 09:17.07 | bhuddah | IOMonster: just trying to save you work :) |
| 09:17.22 | IOMonster | i'll have to give that a try on wednesday when i'm back at work |
| 09:17.35 | bhuddah | okay. we'll see then ;) |
| 09:17.48 | IOMonster | it just seems odd that a nearly identical setup would work on an older system |
| 09:17.58 | arafangion | urandom_: You could just use 'cat'. :) Progress indicators are for people who have nothing else to do. ;) |
| 09:18.08 | arafangion | urandom_: But even then, you could still use IO redirection. |
| 09:18.10 | IOMonster | since this is my second setup like this (however, different switch-- powerconnect 6248) |
| 09:18.25 | IOMonster | i suppose i'm juggling too many variables |
| 09:18.59 | bhuddah | IOMonster: and lb-rr isn't supposed to give you additional bandwith per se |
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| 09:19.06 | urandom_ | arafangion: unnerving w/out any indication of progress, if only cat and dd had such like wget does |
| 09:19.24 | bhuddah | IOMonster: that's why i really doubt your readings. |
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| 09:19.42 | IOMonster | bhuddah: balance-rr should indeed give single tcp stream speed |
| 09:20.00 | urandom_ | arafangion: esp. if the dev you are copying-to has no LED....(which I hate) |
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| 09:20.15 | IOMonster | using balance-xor with xmit hash policy 3+4 would give me multiple tcp stream to same host performance |
| 09:20.57 | urandom_ | arafangion: but sorry if I kept you too long |
| 09:21.17 | bhuddah | IOMonster: the one problem i know if that switches have with that is the round robin tends to break the arp learning. |
| 09:21.24 | IOMonster | indeed |
| 09:21.46 | IOMonster | bhuddah: i had that issue... then i cleared my arp table so it'd learn the new single forged mac |
| 09:22.35 | bhuddah | IOMonster: but even that one switches between two ports. so you have to make sure the switch does not fall back to broadcast. |
| 09:22.53 | urandom_ | joltcan: thanks but I have to figure-out what you were replying-to now |
| 09:23.10 | joltcan | urandom_: encryption in crashplan, but nevermind. |
| 09:23.20 | joltcan | encfs + rsync ftw |
| 09:23.48 | IOMonster | bhuddah: ah, yeah... but you'd think that an iperf test with -c <ip of server> -P 2 would show multiple tcp stream performance then |
| 09:24.18 | IOMonster | but i guess if the switch just gets stuck forwarding traffic out one port it wouldn't matter |
| 09:24.50 | bhuddah | IOMonster: no. all that stuff is encapsulated in the bonding. |
| 09:24.57 | f8l | urandom_: Have you tried dcfldd? |
| 09:25.13 | IOMonster | hmmm, if it was forwarding out only one port, i'd imagine that i'd see traffic stats for one particular iface in the bonding be higher than the others... but they average out nicely |
| 09:25.21 | IOMonster | which is making me think that the switch is at fault |
| 09:25.23 | bhuddah | IOMonster: the bonding uses just one port if set to rr |
| 09:25.28 | IOMonster | curses for this logic! haha |
| 09:25.51 | bhuddah | at a time :) |
| 09:26.10 | IOMonster | i was under the impression that rr takes each packet and shoves it out a different interface, as the name implies |
| 09:26.37 | urandom_ | joltcan: ah, ok, thanks, so w/ crashplan the encryption is done ENTIRELY locally? |
| 09:26.39 | bhuddah | IOMonster: yes.. but at a time.. it can't send the packages at the same time... |
| 09:26.54 | IOMonster | hmmm |
| 09:26.56 | bhuddah | IOMonster: you can get more performance if you really shove a lot of traffic in the interface. |
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| 09:27.28 | IOMonster | the weird thing is balance-rr on my ubuntu 10 / powerconnect 6248 setup showed 1.5gbps on a dual nic bond |
| 09:27.28 | urandom_ | joltcan: b/c I had meant to add, that if not, it's not only the 3rd party site you have to trust but there's also the risk of interception |
| 09:27.30 | bhuddah | IOMonster: maybe you should try it with multiple targets so that you can generate more traffic. |
| 09:27.36 | IOMonster | hmm |
| 09:27.47 | IOMonster | bhuddah: alright, lemme spin up a new box |
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| 09:27.55 | joltcan | urandom_: yes. |
| 09:27.56 | bhuddah | IOMonster: that is how it should be. when the receiver recieves fast enough too i think. |
| 09:28.09 | urandom_ | joltcan: ok, good to know |
| 09:28.57 | urandom_ | f8l: no but I've heard of dcfldd, should look into it more, I suppose |
| 09:29.11 | urandom_ | f8l: Any caveats, offhand? |
| 09:29.13 | IOMonster | alright, i'm hitting it with two sources (both balance-rr) |
| 09:29.23 | bhuddah | ok |
| 09:29.31 | IOMonster | bhuddah: yeah, something's not right |
| 09:29.40 | IOMonster | 0.0-10.1 sec 311 MBytes 257 Mbits/sec |
| 09:29.47 | IOMonster | 0.0-10.1 sec 530 MBytes 440 Mbits/sec |
| 09:29.56 | bhuddah | uh |
| 09:29.59 | IOMonster | each of those is a line from the respective test |
| 09:30.13 | bhuddah | there is clearly some error here. |
| 09:30.14 | IOMonster | it's lower than a single source/dest |
| 09:30.16 | IOMonster | haha |
| 09:30.17 | IOMonster | yeah |
| 09:30.19 | IOMonster | it's weird |
| 09:30.28 | IOMonster | i've been playing with this all yesterday |
| 09:30.49 | IOMonster | *was |
| 09:30.59 | IOMonster | bleh, i've been up for too long lol |
| 09:31.29 | f8l | urandom_: All I know is that it's enhanced dd with automatic status updates among other featurse. (you can make dd show its status by sending it a -SIGUSR1, but dcfldd is said to calculate the estimated time to finish the operation) |
| 09:31.39 | urandom_ | BTW, about keys, don't forget the value of stego |
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| 09:33.08 | urandom_ | f8l: Re: dd status: yes, what you said and also some pkill or something to that effect, IIRC, it was in the comments to a blog post about the aforementioned... |
| 09:33.25 | bhuddah | IOMonster: less enter! please. |
| 09:33.26 | IOMonster | bhuddah: i wish the powerconnect had something like the cisco show utilization commands :/ |
| 09:33.45 | IOMonster | my apologies |
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| 09:33.53 | bhuddah | IOMonster: just wanted to ask you this. better exchange it for something different though |
| 09:33.57 | urandom_ | ...that I learned of that script that I posted above: |
| 09:34.16 | f8l | urandom_: In fact, I found the part about SIGUSR1 in the manpage. ;-) |
| 09:34.44 | IOMonster | unfortunately i'm stuck with it now, i purchased it when i was in new york, and i'd be hard pressed to return it |
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| 09:34.55 | urandom_ | cat {file or dev to copy} | pv -brtp -s {size to be copied} | dd of=/dev/sdX bs=X |
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| 09:35.51 | urandom_ | I was blown away by it, been using it ever since to wipe drives and create bootable USBs from ISOs |
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| 09:37.57 | urandom_ | f8l: What I'm wondering now about dcfldd, "enhanced dd"...what about the bs (byte size) that arafangion brought-up? |
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| 09:38.12 | bhuddah | IOMonster: probably just a weird configuration issue |
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| 09:38.22 | IOMonster | bhuddah: hmmmm, spanning tree is turned on in the switch... |
| 09:38.35 | IOMonster | i wonder if there's a possibility that it's causing an issue |
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| 09:40.01 | bhuddah | IOMonster: IF the hopping of the mac causes it to renegotiate... maybe... can't say |
| 09:40.18 | IOMonster | i just did a global 'no spanning-tree' on the switch |
| 09:40.19 | f8l | urandom_: All my knowledge about dcfldd comes from `apt-cache show dcfldd` I issued after someone mentioned it. |
| 09:40.51 | pseudonym_1000 | spanning tree loops are always fun |
| 09:40.55 | urandom_ | f8l: No problem, as I said, I should read-up on it myself |
| 09:41.06 | f8l | urandom_: You probably meant „block size”. :-) |
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| 09:41.34 | IOMonster | pseudonym_1000: story of my life... the datacenter i work at uses all sorts of stupid spanning tree tricks to keep the older foundry stuff we have working with our failover networks |
| 09:41.37 | urandom_ | f8l: yes, I think so |
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| 09:41.59 | IOMonster | aaaand nope, disabling spanning tree did nothing for performance |
| 09:42.07 | urandom_ | f8l: Thanks for correcting me |
| 09:42.40 | bhuddah | great. -.- |
| 09:42.42 | bhuddah | brb |
| 09:42.51 | IOMonster | curiously though, running iperf shows 229mbps for a single-threaded test... running a multithreaded test with -P 2 gives 586 mbps combined |
| 09:43.00 | IOMonster | so... bonding is doing *something*, just not sure what |
| 09:43.03 | bhuddah | IOMonster: whats with 200 streams? |
| 09:43.05 | spoonbender | lol - the website of backup-manager - i guess it's hacked :P (chinese advertisement) http://www.backup-manager.org |
| 09:43.36 | urandom_ | spoonbender: don't you mean /cracked/? |
| 09:44.00 | urandom_ | not to be pedantic...:) |
| 09:44.06 | spoonbender | if you want to call it like that |
| 09:44.07 | spoonbender | :P |
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| 09:44.24 | spoonbender | but they should really work on their advertisement style :D |
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| 09:45.25 | urandom_ | granted, the masses would say "hacked" but I believe that is a corruption of the term "hacker"; into a pejorative |
| 09:45.55 | pseudonym_1000 | IOMonster: yeah the old legacy network integration with the modern hardware, always fun work |
| 09:46.47 | IOMonster | oooOOoh, i just noticed something neat... so, testing from the 'server' with the quadport nic, to a non-bonded host yields a reasonable 935mbps |
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| 09:46.55 | rozie | what is replacement for dh_make in Wheezy? |
| 09:46.58 | pseudonym_1000 | urandom_: word, some hackers are crackers, but not all crackers are hackers |
| 09:47.13 | IOMonster | but, testing from a 'node' with a dual port nic to a non-bonded host shows 152mbps |
| 09:47.46 | IOMonster | believes something to be wrong with his dell c6100 nodes |
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| 09:47.52 | spoonbender | rest asured, i know the difference ;) - it got corrupted :P |
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| 09:48.11 | urandom_ | pseudonym_1000: :) May have first learned that from listening to "Off The Hook" |
| 09:48.36 | pseudonym_1000 | rozie: you might be looking for dpkg |
| 09:48.53 | rozie | IOMonster: if you want to double bandwidth and you have PC-switch-PC that won't work (most of the time) |
| 09:49.30 | IOMonster | rozie: balance-rr will provide that for single TCP stream, or balance-xor will for multiple tcp stream if i use xmit hash policy for layer3+4 (source/dst port hashing) |
| 09:49.37 | rozie | hashing algorithms are IP/MAC based |
| 09:49.43 | pseudonym_1000 | rozie: or possible http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/dpkg-dev |
| 09:50.08 | rozie | IOMonster: most network equipment can only hash on MAC/IP basis |
| 09:50.25 | rozie | pseudonym_1000: I know the package, but look for the command |
| 09:50.53 | IOMonster | rozie: true, however in my experience if you just let the switch act dumb and not do hashing of any kind on the switch, it seems to work |
| 09:51.03 | pseudonym_1000 | dpkg-buildpackage? |
| 09:51.07 | IOMonster | i have a similar setup that gives me ~1.5gbps |
| 09:51.11 | IOMonster | but different hardware |
| 09:51.17 | IOMonster | some generic supermicro stuff |
| 09:51.22 | IOMonster | and a powerconnect 6248 |
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| 09:51.59 | IOMonster | this new setup is 4x dell c6100's, a generic supermicro box with 128gb ram and a quadport intel nic, and a dell powerconnect 5448 |
| 09:52.41 | urandom_ | be back soon, I hope |
| 09:52.46 | bhuddah | IOMonster: other idea: are you sure that the bonding setup is sound? |
| 09:52.55 | IOMonster | right now the setup works great for what i'm using it for, providing free android buildboxes and file hosting off the ~40tb NFS server |
| 09:53.05 | IOMonster | bhuddah: i am not |
| 09:53.06 | pseudonym_1000 | rozie: possibly debhelper also |
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| 09:53.17 | IOMonster | there's always a possibility i missed something |
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| 09:53.53 | bhuddah | IOMonster: can you pastebin it somewhere so that we all can take a look at it? |
| 09:54.07 | IOMonster | sure, give me 20 seconds |
| 09:55.50 | IOMonster | http://pastebin.com/4PJuvHaK |
| 09:56.03 | rozie | bleh, just zabbix_1.8.16.orig.tar.gz was missing |
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| 09:57.16 | IOMonster | bhuddah: http://pastebin.com/p6JvwfZF |
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| 09:57.39 | IOMonster | the first link is from the 'node' in the c6100 that seems to be giving me issues even when talking to non-bonded hosts |
| 09:58.01 | IOMonster | and the second link is from the 'server' with the quad port nic |
| 09:58.02 | tapout | somehow one of my ipv6 addresses are getting registered with my mac address. a /64 .. but I don't see it in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 09:58.27 | Dagger2 | tapout: SLAAC |
| 09:58.37 | tapout | slaac? |
| 09:59.08 | tapout | ohhh i see |
| 09:59.26 | Dagger2 | stateless automatic address configuration... tl;dr the router sends out broadcasts giving the network range, and if they have the right flag set, computers that receive the broadcast will configure themselves an address out of the range |
| 09:59.58 | bhuddah | IOMonster: i can't see anything strange in that config. maybe remove the jumboframes for a test. |
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| 10:00.44 | IOMonster | tried that earlier, i get ~900mbps single stream, and nearly the same with multiple streams (summed of course) |
| 10:01.27 | tapout | thanks Dad` |
| 10:01.30 | tapout | Dagger2 |
| 10:01.33 | IOMonster | i have many identical nodes with the same bonding config... and from node to node isnt right either.. i only get 900mbps too |
| 10:01.42 | bhuddah | IOMonster: also: i don't think you need the post-up routes in there... as those networks are link local. maybe that has an adverse effect |
| 10:01.55 | IOMonster | bhuddah: they're actually not link-local hehe |
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| 10:02.23 | bhuddah | IOMonster: then you should consider changing the ip on the interface. because it won't work then. |
| 10:02.29 | IOMonster | 172.16.0.1 is in the same vlan, but for the purposes of this test there's nothing being accessed in that vlan |
| 10:02.40 | IOMonster | all of the nodes are in the 172.16.1.1 subnet |
| 10:03.09 | IOMonster | 0.1 is my old setup, which is connected via a layer2 vpn appliance |
| 10:03.12 | bhuddah | yeah. but without gw it will not help. so just remove it. |
| 10:03.15 | IOMonster | and MPLS |
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| 10:03.47 | IOMonster | i promise it works ;) the remote side has the appropriate routes as well |
| 10:03.57 | bhuddah | there is no remote side. |
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| 10:04.10 | IOMonster | of the 0.1 subnet? |
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| 10:04.37 | bhuddah | IOMonster: okay.. lemme put it in other words: this setup is way to complicated to debug those stuff. |
| 10:04.45 | IOMonster | ah, that i understand |
| 10:04.48 | bhuddah | :) |
| 10:05.11 | IOMonster | my DNS server is in that subnet though, so it makes things a little messy without those routes |
| 10:05.15 | bhuddah | IOMonster: try to remove everything that is not absolutely needed for the bonding test to work from the setup. |
| 10:05.34 | IOMonster | alright |
| 10:05.37 | IOMonster | the routes are gone |
| 10:05.43 | IOMonster | and i just restarted the nics over ipmi |
| 10:06.25 | IOMonster | [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 394 MBytes 331 Mbits/sec |
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| 10:06.34 | bhuddah | IOMonster: you have some impressive capabilties there :) |
| 10:06.44 | IOMonster | that is with -s on the quadport box, and -c on the node |
| 10:06.45 | bhuddah | but thats not better -.- |
| 10:06.48 | tapout | Dagger2, how do I disable that slaac? my ipv6 gets kicked out and I think it's because of the ipv6 address being registered outside of my range |
| 10:07.06 | IOMonster | bhuddah: thanks ;) i do sysadmin/software engineering for a living, and i work on android in my spare time |
| 10:07.39 | ZetaNeta | "Quick!" I need compiz! |
| 10:07.49 | ZetaNeta | And i am on wheezy |
| 10:07.50 | IOMonster | strangely enough though from a bonded node to another bonded node, i get 932mbps |
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| 10:08.38 | fawo | Hm, I am currently looking into LXC and I was wondering what the difference and possible advantages/disadvantages of the various network configuration possibilities are. Does anyone have any pointers? :) |
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| 10:10.16 | Dagger2 | tapout: how can the SLAAC address be wrong? unless the provider has screwed up horribly |
| 10:10.32 | schmt | I am using gutenprint driver for printing, debian testing, russian locale. When I open print dialogs, for example in Iceweasel, all gutenprint settings are untranslated whilst everything else Iceweasel-specific is correctly translated. I have googled on issue and the package gutenprint-locales is installed, yet the problem persists. Perhaps can someone suggest something? :/ |
| 10:10.43 | tapout | Dagger2, for some reason my ipv6 keeps getting knockd out |
| 10:10.44 | tapout | knocked out |
| 10:11.02 | tapout | last time i contacted them, they said the switch had multicast disabled or something and they enabled. Or it had it enabled, and they had to disable it .. |
| 10:11.04 | IOMonster | bhuddah: also, thank you for your assistance, i appreciate it |
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| 10:11.13 | tapout | i can't rememeber, but about 185~ seconds into a reboot.. ipv6 goes away again |
| 10:11.18 | bhuddah | IOMonster: yw.. but not much success today -.- |
| 10:11.29 | IOMonster | it's alright, some things just take time |
| 10:11.38 | IOMonster | this may just be 'one of those things' |
| 10:11.57 | IOMonster | right now everything is working perfectly ... except bonding |
| 10:12.03 | bhuddah | IOMonster: yeah. thanks. i would try to simplify it and then test it again. i know you can get some pretty impressive results. |
| 10:12.34 | Dagger2 | tapout: well, I think you can set accept_ra = 0 or autoconf = 0 or somesuch for the interface. but if the provider is sending invalid RAs, the provider needs to fix their shit |
| 10:12.47 | IOMonster | gluster is working with georeplication, nfs is working, iscsi is working, kerberos/ldap is working.... just not bonding :/ |
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| 10:14.07 | IOMonster | as a different test i suppose i could pop a dual port nic into one of the nodes and see if using a non-onboard nic does anything different |
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| 10:16.29 | urandom_ | Anyone, by any chance, have any experience w/ Debian on a Gateway laptop? |
| 10:16.55 | IOMonster | urandom_: anything in specific? i've got a waaaaay old gateway laptop that runs debian fine |
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| 10:18.31 | urandom_ | IOMOnster: I bought this Gateway back in May or so from NewEgg, seemed like a great deal for $299-, haven't used it |
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| 10:19.29 | IOMonster | my linux-on-desktop experience is pretty flimsy though, i didn't do much special to get it to work besides a netinstall |
| 10:19.39 | IOMonster | i'm more of a linux server guy |
| 10:19.57 | urandom_ | Made the mistake of buying without first checking and finding reports of GNU/Linux success |
| 10:20.15 | IOMonster | the main thing i can see that oculd be an issue is the graphics driver |
| 10:20.31 | IOMonster | for 299 it's probably a celeron |
| 10:20.44 | IOMonster | and depending on generation |
| 10:20.53 | urandom_ | and haven't been able to find any for that model, so am thinking I'll try to sell it if I can't find any evidence of Linux success w/ it |
| 10:20.54 | IOMonster | it could be intel hd graphics somethingrather |
| 10:20.58 | IOMonster | or an intel GMA |
| 10:21.06 | urandom_ | can tell you exactly in a moment... |
| 10:21.14 | IOMonster | have you tried it at all? |
| 10:21.25 | urandom_ | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834101309 |
| 10:21.38 | IOMonster | ah |
| 10:21.43 | IOMonster | hm not bad |
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| 10:22.05 | IOMonster | radeon, should work with the open source drivers or the closed source drivers just fine |
| 10:22.14 | IOMonster | but again, that's just my uninformed guess |
| 10:22.17 | urandom_ | no, have kept it sealed in box, in order to be abel to sell it |
| 10:22.21 | IOMonster | ah |
| 10:22.23 | schmt | urandom_:thats HD7340, you need to use latest (3.11) kernel or catalyst. |
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| 10:24.17 | urandom_ | thanks, schmt |
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| 10:25.04 | urandom_ | Mabe I should try to sell it and get something w/ a record of success |
| 10:25.14 | urandom_ | *maybe |
| 10:25.24 | IOMonster | hmmmmmmm i wonder if the power management settings of these c6100 nodes has something to do with this... |
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| 10:25.35 | urandom_ | and more flexible |
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| 10:26.17 | IOMonster | bhuddah: well, i have a neat update... just had a friend at the datacenter unplug two of the connections from my existing setup, made a new bond out of them and put them on the same subnet ... 1753mbps |
| 10:26.20 | schmt | urandom_: I don't understand whats your problem.. You can get Kanotix (debian+proprietary on CD) to test it out. With lastest kernel 7xxx generation should have good DPM, speed and video decoding. Or you can use Catalyst. |
| 10:26.29 | IOMonster | bhuddah: so, it's the nodes |
| 10:26.29 | bhuddah | IOMonster: YEAH :) |
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| 10:27.05 | IOMonster | bhuddah: so now to figure out why two boxes with e1000 nics work fine, but not e1000 to igb |
| 10:27.17 | urandom_ | schmt: But do I want to be limited to latest kernel, or catalyst, which I'm copletely unfamiliar w/ ? |
| 10:27.35 | urandom_ | schmt: as far as Kanotix, I'm using it right now |
| 10:27.42 | urandom_ | on my old hardware |
| 10:27.57 | IOMonster | i really don't want to have to buy more nics and mezzanine raid cards for these nodes :/ |
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| 10:28.04 | bhuddah | IOMonster: so it still gets more complicated |
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| 10:28.09 | IOMonster | yeah |
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| 10:28.54 | urandom_ | and what about WiFi? |
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| 10:29.06 | urandom_ | that can be a hit or miss, no? |
| 10:29.11 | bhuddah | IOMonster: good luck with that :) |
| 10:29.48 | IOMonster | bhuddah: haha thanks |
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| 10:30.14 | schmt | urandom: I did not suggest you to be "limited" to Kanotix. Kanotix ships latest Debian Sid with Proprietary on CD. This way you can easily find out if it works for you. As of "latest kernel" you need it because the latest DPM work (over 10k of code) landed in it, and there is a lot happening. Thats if you want opensource driver. In terms of power efficiency both open and closed are same. Or you can use closed now with older kernel, to test |
| 10:30.14 | schmt | this case, boot Kanotix. If it works for you, use any distro. |
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| 10:30.24 | bhuddah | IOMonster: i still think that it is probably not a hardware issue |
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| 10:30.34 | IOMonster | yeah |
| 10:30.46 | IOMonster | i'm curious to see if it's a power management option in the bios of these nodes |
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| 10:31.45 | urandom_ | schmt: thanks for the info, I didn't think you meant limited-to Kanotix but limited to latest kernel |
| 10:31.49 | schmt | urandom: Wifi 802.11n or a+c may be hit or miss, due to nearly all manufacturers going proprietary (requiring firmware). Has nothing to do with linux. But if you get the firmware, they will work. As of 802.11 b+g generation, it depends on what chipset you get - it may require firmware, or may work on open drivers. |
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| 10:32.31 | schmt | urandom_: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_radeon_dpm&num=1 |
| 10:34.42 | urandom_ | schmt: thanks, I've wondered for some time about how much energy I'm wasting with my old hardware |
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| 10:38.16 | IOMonster | bleh, i should just get an infiniband switch ;) |
| 10:38.17 | urandom_ | schmt: about WiFi, if it doesn't work OOTB, it can be a pain-- especially if use numerous dif distros, and esp. for live |
| 10:38.23 | schmt | urandom_: If you are using catalyst, you are not wasting any energy and its available for older kernels. Ofc it has issues. Open driver has less issues, but there is a lot of work happening and for DPM you really want to get latest MESA+latest kernel and also seek out how to get them working. DPM was only recently unlocked for free driver by AMD legal department, but for notebooks its critical. In kernels prior to 3.11, you could either get |
| 10:38.23 | schmt | <PROTECTED> |
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| 10:39.38 | urandom_ | schmt: My newest now is Pentium M @ 2 GHZ |
| 10:39.44 | urandom_ | single-core |
| 10:39.58 | schmt | urandom_: boot, lspci the notebook, find the wifi chipset and google. I had problems only with Ralink hardware for 802.11n, for them I needed Ralink own firmware. |
| 10:41.06 | urandom_ | schmt: I think I wrote the exact specs down somehwere, I'm going take a quick look |
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| 10:42.00 | IOMonster | alright, i'm off to bed... thank you bhuddah for your time :D |
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| 10:43.10 | schmt | urandom_: Intel is whole different topic. They are graphically slower compared to AMD and less complex, so require less complex driver. Both Intel and AMD do splendid jobs on open drivers, but even for Intel you may need recent kernel. |
| 10:46.15 | pseudonym_1000 | i have had realtek wifi driver issues on every machine i've installed debian on recently that had one |
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| 10:46.36 | pseudonym_1000 | but fixed with non-free |
| 10:46.59 | urandom_ | found my paper but no info on wifi chip |
| 10:47.08 | urandom_ | thanks for all the info, schmt |
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| 10:48.00 | NeO_Anderson | hello everyone I tried to switch kernels and the machine didn't boot up after that, my providers offer something called 'rescue' mode which enables me to regain access to the machine but the issue is I need to mount the directories |
| 10:48.08 | NeO_Anderson | to change what kernel to boot |
| 10:48.13 | NeO_Anderson | how exactly do I do this :S |
| 10:48.46 | pseudonym_1000 | can you use a livecd and mount the original filesystem to make your changes? |
| 10:48.55 | NeO_Anderson | its a remote machine |
| 10:49.11 | NeO_Anderson | and I think this rescue mode is essentially a live cd but remote-verison kind of |
| 10:49.15 | NeO_Anderson | so I can access machine |
| 10:49.25 | NeO_Anderson | and I just managed to mount the old filesystem lol |
| 10:49.37 | pseudonym_1000 | sounds like you're going the right direction |
| 10:49.52 | NeO_Anderson | so now the next question, how do I edit the boot order from here? im guessing I can't use things like 'update-grub' ? |
| 10:50.20 | pseudonym_1000 | you can manually edit the grub config |
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| 10:50.49 | pseudonym_1000 | point it to a copy of the previous kernel |
| 10:51.44 | pseudonym_1000 | your rescue console probably has vi or nano or something |
| 10:51.46 | NeO_Anderson | what the... |
| 10:51.52 | NeO_Anderson | my grub.cfg has no kernels |
| 10:52.01 | pseudonym_1000 | well that's part of your problem :P |
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| 10:53.06 | NeO_Anderson | can I just confirm whether or not updata-grub would work? |
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| 10:54.10 | pseudonym_1000 | i'm not sure tbh |
| 10:54.39 | pseudonym_1000 | i think you would need to chroot your main environment in your rescue system to do that |
| 10:54.41 | pseudonym_1000 | or something |
| 10:55.05 | pseudonym_1000 | im getting memories of stage 1 gentoo installs |
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| 10:56.10 | DelphiWorld | Hi guys, |
| 10:56.17 | DelphiWorld | if i use the vlan utility to add vlans |
| 10:56.22 | DelphiWorld | like vconfig add eth0 100 |
| 10:56.33 | DelphiWorld | is this vlan permanent or is going to be deleted? |
| 10:56.37 | DelphiWorld | on-reboot |
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| 10:56.57 | cthuluh | not permanent |
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| 10:57.26 | cthuluh | the easiest way is to use /etc/network/interfaces, which has special syntax for vlan interfaces |
| 10:58.13 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: thank |
| 10:58.20 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: for example auto eth0.100? |
| 10:58.21 | NeO_Anderson | ok I followed this guide http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/245 |
| 10:58.24 | NeO_Anderson | now we see... :S lol |
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| 11:02.45 | cthuluh | DelphiWorld: man -k vlan -> vlan-interfaces(5) |
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| 11:03.19 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: sadly, man is not readable for me using text to speech:( |
| 11:03.35 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: auto eth0.100 is needed? or i add just iface eth0.100 |
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| 11:05.10 | cthuluh | DelphiWorld: sadly I don't have a Debian box with vlans configured at hand, so I can't tell you whether it's needed or not |
| 11:05.22 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: dear, i found it;-) |
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| 11:05.30 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: http://3molo.blogspot.com/2009/10/vlan-tagging-in-debian-gnulinux.html |
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| 11:06.35 | cthuluh | DelphiWorld: ok, but that doesn't tell whether it is *actually* needed or not ;) |
| 11:06.45 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: :) |
| 11:06.52 | cthuluh | (my reflex would be to add it anyway, but you were raising a valid point) |
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| 11:07.16 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: i think eth0.x is not longer valid |
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| 11:07.41 | cthuluh | DelphiWorld: btw man(1) not being usable for text-to-speech seems to suck... dunno how you can do without it |
| 11:07.53 | cthuluh | if I were in your situation I'd complain loudly |
| 11:08.12 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: hahahaha, it's my fault cause i use winbugs for accessibility:-P |
| 11:08.24 | NeO_Anderson | ok I managed to chroot and get access |
| 11:08.28 | ffio | are their any video tutorials for debian packaging ? |
| 11:08.41 | NeO_Anderson | but when I do update-grub |
| 11:09.03 | NeO_Anderson | it says: /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: no such disk. |
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| 11:09.39 | DelphiWorld | hahaha, my vlan is up |
| 11:10.18 | DelphiWorld | LOLLOL, wireless ap bridged to my vlan... fun fun |
| 11:10.33 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: thank dude |
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| 11:13.41 | cthuluh | I just checked on a squeeze box, "auto" is indeed needed for ifup -a, as expected |
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| 11:16.48 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: i am very happy :-P |
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| 11:17.16 | cthuluh | cool |
| 11:18.31 | NeO_Anderson | pseudonym_1000 are you there? :o |
| 11:18.45 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: last week i brock my machine hahaha i was obligated to format it cause i cant use the keyboard/screen;-) |
| 11:19.56 | DelphiWorld | :X |
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| 11:20.39 | cthuluh | DelphiWorld: I wouldn't find that funny, though ;) (btw there's a #debian-offtopic chan if you wanna chat with the folks there) |
| 11:20.59 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: :) |
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| 11:22.23 | DelphiWorld | crap... |
| 11:22.28 | DelphiWorld | after rebooting vlan100 is not up |
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| 11:23.29 | cthuluh | then try eth0.100 ;) |
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| 11:25.05 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: i'lle pb my conf |
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| 11:26.04 | DelphiWorld | hi taha |
| 11:26.35 | DelphiWorld | cthuluh: http://www.maxmind.com/en/home |
| 11:27.14 | cusco | is there a ppackage that replaces console-data ? |
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| 11:29.43 | f8l | cusco: Maybe console-setup? |
| 11:29.52 | cusco | yes thanks |
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| 11:31.11 | cusco | f8l: I see that dpkg-reconfigure that packate won't allow to change the keyboard layout |
| 11:31.15 | cusco | how do I change it nowdays? |
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| 11:31.59 | f8l | cusco: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration |
| 11:32.37 | f8l | cusco: Next time ask the real question first. ;-) |
| 11:33.02 | cusco | f8l: it used to be console-data |
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| 11:33.15 | cusco | but yea, I also search dpkg for 'keymap' and he just told me the same |
| 11:33.16 | cusco | thanks |
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| 11:35.24 | lobi | hello. i have hp printer laserjet 1018. i did print a page, it said that job is completed, but no printing occurred. Can someone help me? |
| 11:36.20 | tgs3 | lobi: I would google the printer model. also write Hp's support |
| 11:36.27 | tgs3 | s/google/duckduckgo |
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| 11:38.32 | f8l | lobi: There is a site linux-printing.org or something similar. You may want to search for it. |
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| 11:52.38 | m4dm4n | hello all |
| 11:52.51 | m4dm4n | anybody here that know reverse engineering? |
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| 11:54.25 | ksk | !tell m4dm4n about smart questions |
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| 11:54.54 | m4dm4n | ksk: sorry for bad question |
| 11:55.37 | lobi | tgs3: i did this |
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| 11:57.34 | anonnumberanon | m4dm4n oh you mean from an output, find the fuction that takes in the input to give you the output? |
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| 11:57.46 | Shi3A | new chromium-browser from jessie kills my X-server =(( |
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| 11:59.53 | abrotman | Shi3A: make sure your system is fully up to date |
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| 12:01.01 | Shi3A | abrotman: yes |
| 12:01.55 | Shi3A | abrotman: I don't care, I use FF =) |
| 12:02.33 | Perdu | m4dm4n: "reverse engineering" is a very wide concept. What do you need? |
| 12:03.12 | babilen | Shi3A: FF is not packaged by us, why do you use it? Is your system fully up-to-date? Could you show us your sources.list, the output of "apt-cache policy" and that of "apt-get update ; aptitude search ~U" on http://paste.debian.net please? |
| 12:03.13 | m4dm4n | Perdu: Do you have any idea? I want to become a malware researcher |
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| 12:04.03 | urandom_ | babilen: not to be pedantic but I believe the correct abbreviation is "Fx" |
| 12:04.15 | babilen | m4dm4n: This is the wrong channel for this as we provide technical support for Debian users in here. |
| 12:04.23 | anonnumberanon | lol |
| 12:04.43 | m4dm4n | I know but I thought that I can find a security expert here |
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| 12:05.56 | anonnumberanon | m4dm4n, are you using Tor? |
| 12:06.00 | babilen | urandom_: Tell Shi3A not me - I would call it Firefox, but tried to make my utterance understandable by copying aspects of my conversational partners' utterance. |
| 12:06.21 | abrotman | wtf calls it Fx .. |
| 12:06.31 | m4dm4n | Yes |
| 12:06.35 | babilen | And I've never seen that abbreviation either |
| 12:07.07 | abrotman | Shi3A: so, aptitude update;aptitude full-upgrade, says you're 100% up to date? |
| 12:07.16 | babilen | m4dm4n: You might be interested in ##security - This is really not the correct channel for this. Also take a look at other channels listed by "/msg alis list *security*" |
| 12:07.24 | urandom_ | ok, babilen, sorry then, didn't mean to chastise you or anyone, for that matter, |
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| 12:07.44 | m4dm4n | Thank you |
| 12:08.48 | Shi3A | babilen: I use FF nightly, was downloaded from mozzila ;-) |
| 12:09.23 | urandom_ | but I think if you check into it, you will find that "Fx" is the correct form |
| 12:09.26 | urandom_ | :) |
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| 12:10.28 | Shi3A | abrotman: babilen: sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude upgrade; 0 пакетов обновлено, 0 установлено новых, 0 пакетов отмечено для удаления, и 1 пакетов не обновлено. My locale is ru |
| 12:10.34 | abrotman | babilen: i think he's crazy |
| 12:10.39 | abrotman | Shi3A: FULL-UPGEADE |
| 12:10.41 | abrotman | ugh .. |
| 12:10.51 | abrotman | Shi3A: not upgrade .. i would have seaid that if i had meant it |
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| 12:11.15 | Shi3A | abrotman: oh... full-upgrade want to remove 135 packages |
| 12:11.34 | babilen | Shi3A: ... show us ... |
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| 12:11.42 | babilen | dpkg: tell Shi3A -about localised errors |
| 12:11.45 | abrotman | Shi3A: that seems like your system is not fully up to date |
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| 12:12.15 | urandom_ | dist-upgrade is generally preferred over plain upgrade |
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| 12:12.42 | Shi3A | !tell pastebin |
| 12:12.50 | abrotman | Shi3A: paste.debian.net please |
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| 12:13.14 | Shi3A | abrotman: one second, please |
| 12:13.17 | f8l | urandom_: dist-upgrade is an alias for full-upgrade in aptitude, IIRC. |
| 12:13.40 | abrotman | must be the first day of school .. |
| 12:14.10 | Shi3A | abrotman: http://paste.debian.net/30336/ |
| 12:14.40 | abrotman | neat |
| 12:14.45 | urandom_ | abrotman: 1st day of school directed at me? |
| 12:15.15 | Shi3A | urandom_: I think, it's for me =)) |
| 12:15.34 | abrotman | wrong on both counts |
| 12:15.36 | babilen | Shi3A: You should sort out your system -- Could you please paste the information I asked for some time ago and also include that of "aptitude -f install", "aptitude search ~o" and "aptitude search ~b" ? |
| 12:15.50 | abrotman | Shi3A: you really can't not upgrade your system .. that's why things begin crashing |
| 12:16.00 | abrotman | Shi3A: do you actually use kde? |
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| 12:16.33 | Shi3A | abrotman: yes, 4.10.5 |
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| 12:16.39 | aguitel | what twitter client is working under debian |
| 12:16.57 | Shi3A | babilen: 1sec, pls) |
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| 12:17.25 | f8l | aguitel: `apt-cache search twitter client` should give you some answers. |
| 12:17.41 | urandom_ | abrotman: KDE apparently has come a long a way |
| 12:17.49 | abrotman | urandom_: i have no idea why you think i canre? |
| 12:17.50 | abrotman | care |
| 12:18.03 | aguitel | f8l, many is not working |
| 12:18.18 | abrotman | urandom_: i'm asking him what he uses .. i don't care how well it works in general |
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| 12:19.59 | urandom_ | abrotman: I misinterpreted then. When you said, "do you actually use KDE", I took it as expressing shock, disbelief |
| 12:20.25 | urandom_ | like, "how could actually use such a <fill in the blanks> DE?!" |
| 12:20.28 | urandom_ | sorry |
| 12:20.47 | f8l | aguitel: Try to query popcon about the clients then. The most popular probably work. |
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| 12:21.24 | babilen | urandom_: That wouldn't have been a helpful comment/question at all and therefore wouldn't have made sense - But lets please concentrate on actual support issues in here. |
| 12:22.02 | urandom_ | ok, I understand, sorry |
| 12:22.06 | el-aurian | hi, i'm having trouble with my sound |
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| 12:22.31 | babilen | el-aurian: Please elaborate. What have you tried so far and what was the result of that? |
| 12:22.32 | el-aurian | i have an SB audigy 2 and an ICH6 sound cards |
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| 12:23.04 | el-aurian | the sound works on ubuntu, which uses pulseaudio, but pulseaudio isn't installed on this box |
| 12:23.05 | Shi3A | babilen: http://paste.debian.net/30343/ I don't use yum and other rpm package managers, its for development only |
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| 12:23.36 | Samul | Hi |
| 12:23.40 | el-aurian | I've tried following http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Module-intel8x0#Setting_up_modprobe_and_kmod_support |
| 12:23.54 | Samul | I use debian 7 wheezy 64 bit, iceweasel as browser and I have to install java plugin |
| 12:23.58 | Samul | how can I do that? |
| 12:23.58 | el-aurian | but snd-seq-oss module isn't packaged anymore |
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| 12:24.15 | Samul | if I try to install it, iceweasel says that it isn't available |
| 12:25.06 | el-aurian | samul, have you tried installing icedtea-plugin? |
| 12:25.17 | abrotman | Shi3A: so you're not actually using jessie? |
| 12:25.20 | Samul | is it apt-get install icedtea-plugin ? |
| 12:25.28 | el-aurian | yeh |
| 12:25.33 | Samul | I'm going to try |
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| 12:25.46 | Iridos | dpkg, tell el-aurian about alsa checklist |
| 12:26.24 | Shi3A | abrotman: hm... my english so bad, I don't understand you, repeat on a simpler, please |
| 12:26.35 | babilen | Shi3A: I am heading off for lunch, but you have a number of issues that you should have dealt with earlier. I'd also like to point out that we support testing/unstable in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net (aka irc.debian.org) -- I'd start by removing all those obsolete packages with something like "aptitude purge ~o PKG+" where PKG+ is a list of package names that you would like to keep suffixed with +. Could be something like "skype:i386+ ... |
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| 12:26.41 | babilen | ... virtualbox-4.2+" or so. |
| 12:26.42 | abrotman | Shi3A: it appears your sources don't actually point at jessie? |
| 12:26.43 | Shi3A | abrotman: cat /etc/debian_version returns jessie/sid |
| 12:27.00 | abrotman | Shi3A: right.. that's vague |
| 12:27.01 | Samul | oh |
| 12:27.05 | Samul | I cannot believe in that |
| 12:27.07 | Samul | now it works |
| 12:27.12 | el-aurian | dpkg, alsa checklist |
| 12:27.12 | dpkg | 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>. |
| 12:27.14 | Samul | it was just for the plug-in .-. |
| 12:27.24 | Samul | thanks el-aurian |
| 12:28.02 | babilen | Shi3A: You should then sort out the broken packages by running "aptitude -f install", cycle through the various suggestions and choose the one that suit your wishes. That should allow you to upgrade your system with "aptitude full-upgrade" or "apt-get dist-upgrade" |
| 12:28.59 | Shi3A | babilen: ok, thanks |
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| 12:30.22 | babilen | Shi3A: I would also strongly recommend to read https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable and follow the advice in there. One aspect of running unstable is that it is of uttermost importance to keep the system up-to-date every single day and to deal with issues as soon as they arise. |
| 12:31.00 | abrotman | maybe not every day, but certainly not more than a few days |
| 12:31.05 | babilen | el-aurian: Which soundcard would you like to use? How did you install Debian and did you install a desktop environment? |
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| 12:31.26 | abrotman | but it does involve a lot of reading email lists and blog posts |
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| 12:32.30 | urandom_ | Isn't it good practice to check for at least security updates, at least once-a-day-- even on stable? |
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| 12:33.14 | joltcan | I run unattended-upgrades by cron |
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| 12:34.16 | abrotman | urandom_: this has nothing to do with stable |
| 12:34.27 | abrotman | batting .000 |
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| 12:35.33 | urandom_ | abrotman: Kindly re-read what I said, I don't think you quite understood |
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| 12:35.54 | abrotman | I clearly did |
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| 12:36.16 | urandom_ | abrotman: ok, I realized, I should have highlighted the word "even" |
| 12:36.50 | Samul | I'm going to quit bye |
| 12:36.53 | abrotman | urandom_: unstable doesn't generally get targeted security patches .. it gets a newer version of packages. There is zero semblance of security support for unstable .. clearly something you'd know, right? |
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| 12:40.12 | babilen | el-aurian: Still there? |
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| 12:40.36 | Anticom | hi all |
| 12:40.37 | el-aurian | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:41.17 | urandom_ | abrotman: I'll be the first to admit I could be clueless here... but wouldn't the new pkges often correct a vuln? If so, my point would stand that at updating at least once-a-day is prudent |
| 12:41.28 | babilen | el-aurian: Okay, how did you install XFCE4? Did you install pulseaudio and do you want to use it? How do you start XFCE4? Could you paste the output of "cat /proc/asound/cards" and "aplay -L" to http://paste.debian.net ? |
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| 12:42.07 | abrotman | urandom_: but you cannot guarantee when the maintainer will upload the fixed version, could be the same day, or six months later .. hence, no security support |
| 12:42.48 | el-aurian | i installed xfce4 via the package. I don't have pulseaudio installed atm, but it was installed initially (whilst the sound still didn't work), i removed it because I was trying to diagnose the issue using trial and error |
| 12:42.48 | KpuCko | hey, can somebody help me with lxc & libvirtd configuration in Debian Jessy? |
| 12:43.12 | abrotman | and if you're running stable, you should be subscribed to the DSA list and/or the RSS feed, plus maybe using cron-apt or apticron |
| 12:43.15 | el-aurian | xfce4 starts by lightdm (auto-login) |
| 12:43.28 | Anticom | I'm quite newbie when it comes to *nix so my question may seem pretty silly to you: I've just installed default-jdk via apt-get but JAVA_HOME isn't set yet when looking at vars via "export -p". So I've located "tools.jar" in /usr/lib/jvm/jdk[version]/lib/tools.jar. Does that mean that i need to set JAVA_HOME to /usr/lib/jvm/jdk[myVersion] ? |
| 12:43.47 | urandom_ | abrotman: I defer to your obviously vastly superior knowledge then (/not/ being sarcastic) |
| 12:43.50 | Anticom | (I'm trying to set up ANT) |
| 12:43.54 | babilen | el-aurian: Okay, may I see the output of those two commands? Would you like to eventually use PA or not? What else did you change in order to fix the problem? |
| 12:44.16 | Anticom | oh nvm... now it's not complaining about not finding tools.jar |
| 12:44.26 | Anticom | *anymore |
| 12:44.31 | urandom_ | unless and until someone should defend my idea |
| 12:44.46 | Anticom | But still. Is it recommended to set JAVA_HOME manually? |
| 12:44.57 | el-aurian | babilen, I have tried many things, however I reverted each change after trying it so the system shouldn't be a mess of failed attempts |
| 12:45.06 | babilen | urandom_: There is no "this is always the right way" with unstable. It simply depends on the specific situation. |
| 12:45.20 | babilen | el-aurian: Okay, may I see the output of those two commands please? |
| 12:45.30 | urandom_ | babilen: ok |
| 12:45.46 | urandom_ | point conceded |
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| 12:48.48 | el-aurian | babilen: http://paste.debian.net/30357/ |
| 12:48.58 | el-aurian | I don't know whether to bother with pulseaudio |
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| 12:49.28 | el-aurian | i get the impression it's main GUI feature is audio stream control from different applications |
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| 12:50.31 | babilen | el-aurian: Do you have speakers connected to both cards or only to your SB device? |
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| 12:53.04 | el-aurian_ | babilen: headphones in the stereo of the SB |
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| 12:53.35 | el-aurian_ | I have other headphones which I can plug into the ICH6 headphones port on the front |
| 12:53.41 | babilen | el-aurian: Please try to run "speaker-test -t wav" and "speaker-test -t wav default:CARD=Audigy2" and tell me if you hear anything - Please also check that *all* channels aren't muted. (run "alsamixer" unmute with "m" and change soundcards with F6) |
| 12:53.55 | babilen | (also paste the output of that) |
| 12:54.27 | el-aurian_ | paste the output of both speaker-test commands? |
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| 12:55.32 | babilen | yes, what else? |
| 12:56.04 | babilen | I would also like to see the output of "lspci -nn|grep -i audio" and "dmesg|grep -i firmware" |
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| 12:57.48 | babilen | The first speaker-test command should produce sound output on the internal sound card. Raise volume levels/unmute for that card and plug into the corresponding jack. |
| 12:57.56 | babilen | err .. |
| 12:58.12 | babilen | And the second command should be "speaker-test -t wav -Ddefault:CARD=Audigy2" :( |
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| 12:59.45 | babilen | el-aurian_: Is your computer in a different room? |
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| 13:00.01 | el-aurian_ | nope, just alot of sound levels |
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| 13:05.22 | el-aurian | babilen: http://paste.debian.net/30359/ |
| 13:05.57 | el-aurian | babilen: would you remind me of the second speak-test, the webchat froze |
| 13:06.21 | zlude | Hello! i need a help with ssh client options. when i try ssh to a host and is busy i can exit with CRTL+C, sure? but, when i'm using a script with ssh keys? and host is busy? connection does not exit from a busy host. can i set something like timeout in ssh options? |
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| 13:07.39 | el-aurian | babilen: http://paste.debian.net/30360/ |
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| 13:08.57 | hatchetjack | is there a way to do ssh user@somehost.com dpkg -i some.deb? |
| 13:09.35 | hatchetjack | right now I get the error about dailogs and requires a controlling tty etc... |
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| 13:11.55 | themill | hatchetjack: tell ssh to allocate a tty (-t) |
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| 13:15.33 | el-aurian | babilen: when I run speaker-test -t wav -DCARD=Audigy2 I receive the following error: http://paste.debian.net/30365/ |
| 13:16.22 | darsie | I want a good window manager |
| 13:16.56 | arafangion | darsie: Window Manager is surprisingly good, imho. |
| 13:17.03 | odin__ | hi, I've just rebuilded deb package after changing a makefile. debdiff returns: "File lists identical (after any substitutions)" |
| 13:17.04 | arafangion | (considering it's age) |
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| 13:17.23 | odin__ | should there be changes? |
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| 13:18.00 | NeO_Anderson | hello, guys, im struggling here, I've attempted to switch kernels and the system failed to boot. ive been battling trying to get it to boot up im currently in this "rescue mode" with the system chrooted so I have access to it |
| 13:18.26 | NeO_Anderson | there is basically no errors in dmesg and things as basic as 'syslog' e.t.c are showing nothing after my first reboot |
| 13:18.32 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: You should be able to select the previous kernel. |
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| 13:19.00 | NeO_Anderson | yeah thats the thing, i then edited my /etc/default/grub to set the default back to 0 (my original kernel) |
| 13:19.05 | NeO_Anderson | and it still fails to boot :S |
| 13:19.29 | NeO_Anderson | http://pastebin.com/sVMKDTag |
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| 13:19.32 | NeO_Anderson | that is my dmesg |
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| 13:19.47 | NeO_Anderson | to me that looks like a normal startup? at least half way anyway? |
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| 13:20.05 | NeO_Anderson | and its loading things like iptables an such which surely require the kernel to already be loaded? |
| 13:20.50 | milo64 | hey |
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| 13:20.56 | milo64 | one comment about debian |
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| 13:21.01 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Kernel is loaded, and running, but perhaps some service you have enabled is waiting for something that isn't there anymore. |
| 13:21.07 | milo64 | (and no, i'm gonna say this officially on IRC, emails sucks) |
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| 13:21.19 | lurk3r | milo64: go |
| 13:21.25 | NeO_Anderson | is there a way to find out ? I havent enabled anything :S |
| 13:21.30 | milo64 | is that a go ahead? luckman212 |
| 13:21.35 | milo64 | oh s* |
| 13:21.40 | milo64 | is that a go ahead? lurk3r |
| 13:21.44 | lurk3r | sure |
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| 13:22.06 | themill | milo64: bug reports go via the bts; discussion about development is on either the debian-project or debian-devel mailing list. |
| 13:22.07 | NeO_Anderson | I was attempting to install virtualbox prior to switching kernel |
| 13:22.13 | NeO_Anderson | perhaps that has installed something? |
| 13:22.19 | milo64 | themill, emails sucks, lol :P |
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| 13:23.43 | el-aurian | babilen: heres a paste from speaker-test without the error http://paste.debian.net/30371/ |
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| 13:24.36 | milo64 | the debian installation: I live in Thailand, but, I have to choose a timezone in America first because: If I change my locale to 'Thai' from there, the timezone will be in Asia/ region but the system is in Thai (and even though I'm thai, I forgot my language). |
| 13:25.01 | milo64 | The user should be able to choose any timezone even though the locale is specified as "US" or whatever |
| 13:25.04 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Virtualbox, iirc, requires a kernel module, which will require recompilation, but I don't think that would stop your boot sequence. |
| 13:25.06 | themill | milo64: you can |
| 13:25.08 | ksk | milo64: "locale" and "timezone" are totally not affiliated to each other |
| 13:25.15 | milo64 | hmm |
| 13:25.21 | el-aurian | would someone confirm they can see my message? as I've sent several with no response.. thanks |
| 13:25.30 | ksk | you can have an english layout and set the timezone to "thailand" |
| 13:25.38 | milo64 | but it says "If your timezone is not listed, please pick your locale to your location again". |
| 13:25.41 | milo64 | or something like that |
| 13:25.43 | darsie | el-aurian: no ;) |
| 13:26.10 | el-aurian | darsie: thanks, i've been having problems with the webchat freezing |
| 13:26.13 | ksk | milo64: thats just the install wizard? ignore it and set it right after the installation (dpkg-reconfigure tz-data for timezone) |
| 13:26.21 | el-aurian | did babilen say he was going on lunch? |
| 13:26.37 | *** join/#debian Shi3A (~Shi3A@85.234.37.158) |
| 13:26.42 | darsie | !seen babilen |
| 13:26.42 | dpkg | babilen is currently on #debian-ops (1h 49m 53s) #debian (1h 49m 53s). Has said a total of 29 messages. Is idling for 26m 56s, last said: 'el-aurian_: Is your computer in a different room?'. |
| 13:26.47 | milo64 | ksk, yes, that's what i currently do, but i'm talking about the issue in 'Install Wizard' |
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| 13:27.07 | urandom_ | yes, he did el-aurian, long enough ago that he could have finished by now |
| 13:28.07 | milo64 | Aow!! |
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| 13:29.29 | milo64 | eh |
| 13:29.31 | milo64 | !seen milo64 |
| 13:29.31 | dpkg | milo64 is currently on #debian. Has said a total of 16 messages. Is idling for 0s, last said: '!seen milo64'. |
| 13:29.40 | milo64 | !seen ksk |
| 13:29.40 | dpkg | ksk is currently on #debian. Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 3m 27s, last said: 'milo64: thats just the install wizard? ignore it and set it right after the installation (dpkg-reconfigure tz-data for timezone)'. |
| 13:29.44 | milo64 | ha ha! :D |
| 13:29.54 | themill | you can stop playing with the bot now |
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| 13:30.29 | milo64 | it's the fact that you people idle all the time. What do you do? Aren't you so bored? It's funny. :D |
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| 13:30.56 | NeO_Anderson | arafangion i've removed everything virtualbox-related |
| 13:31.05 | arafangion | milo64: We work, eat, go out, and chase girls. |
| 13:31.09 | themill | milo64: btw, the wheezy installer can set tz and locale independently. |
| 13:31.13 | NeO_Anderson | rebooting now to see if it has solved the issue or not :S I hope it has... |
| 13:31.17 | arafangion | milo64: (I have no idea what the girls here do... I speak only for the guys) |
| 13:31.29 | milo64 | ok |
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| 13:31.39 | milo64 | good you imporved it |
| 13:31.49 | themill | milo64: no, it's been like that for years |
| 13:32.01 | NeO_Anderson | damn |
| 13:32.07 | NeO_Anderson | still failing to boot =x |
| 13:32.21 | milo64 | wut |
| 13:32.39 | NeO_Anderson | arafangion any advice? :S |
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| 13:33.20 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Go back to your other kernel until you have time to figure it out. It's almost 12am for me here, so that's all I will say. :) |
| 13:33.47 | NeO_Anderson | thats the thing lol, im trying to |
| 13:33.55 | NeO_Anderson | it just wont boot at all now >< |
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| 13:34.00 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: How did you install it? |
| 13:34.11 | NeO_Anderson | the new kernel? |
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| 13:34.15 | NeO_Anderson | apt-get install |
| 13:34.26 | NeO_Anderson | followed this guide: http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5616 |
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| 13:34.47 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Should be able to go back to the older kernel, then. |
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| 13:34.53 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Just select it in the boot menu when it comes up.l |
| 13:34.59 | NeO_Anderson | it's a remote machine :S |
| 13:35.03 | NeO_Anderson | (dedicated server) |
| 13:35.10 | NeO_Anderson | wished I could see the screen... make life a lot easier >< |
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| 13:35.36 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Ah, then you want to edit the boot menu itself, modify it to chose the other kernel. |
| 13:35.49 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Also, that page there you showed is for Ubuntu, not Debian. |
| 13:36.00 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Which has a *completely* different boot system. |
| 13:36.06 | NeO_Anderson | I see |
| 13:36.19 | NeO_Anderson | it actually worked the first time |
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| 13:36.36 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Ubuntu and Debian are quite different. |
| 13:36.48 | NeO_Anderson | yeah I didnt know that till now xD |
| 13:36.56 | NeO_Anderson | it booted into xen kernel but I wasn't happy with that kernel either due to virtualbox not running still so I went back to default kernela |
| 13:37.03 | NeO_Anderson | and it never came up after reboot :S |
| 13:37.18 | NeO_Anderson | tried so many things... really lost >< |
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| 13:37.33 | NeO_Anderson | after I chroot in, update-grub runs fine.. |
| 13:37.35 | NeO_Anderson | no errors |
| 13:37.40 | NeO_Anderson | so surely grub.cfg is ok? |
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| 13:37.56 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: What gave you the impression that they were similar? |
| 13:38.08 | NeO_Anderson | tbh everytime I google for something related to debian |
| 13:38.12 | NeO_Anderson | ubunto comes up... |
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| 13:38.19 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: You're mixing xen and virtualbox!? |
| 13:38.26 | NeO_Anderson | yeah thats the isssue ^ |
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| 13:38.35 | NeO_Anderson | which is why I then realised I should not be using this kernel |
| 13:38.42 | NeO_Anderson | and wanted to change to just a normal 2.6 kernel |
| 13:38.50 | NeO_Anderson | and bang, no booting up lol |
| 13:39.11 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: If you are using a xen guest system, you need a xen kernel, unless I'm mistaken. (I don't do xen stuff) |
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| 13:39.32 | NeO_Anderson | yeah that was plan b |
| 13:39.35 | NeO_Anderson | should virtualbox still not instal |
| 13:39.46 | NeO_Anderson | but when I read somewhere that xen kernel + virtualbox = not good idea |
| 13:39.55 | NeO_Anderson | I thought ok let me go back to just a normal non-xen kernel |
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| 13:40.13 | NeO_Anderson | so I installed one (following that guide) which actually said it was already installed so I looked at my list and yes it was |
| 13:40.22 | NeO_Anderson | so I tried to boot into that... but it didnt come back after that.. |
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| 13:40.42 | NeO_Anderson | then after like hours of trying to figure out whats wrong... I tried booting back into my original original kernel.. |
| 13:40.48 | NeO_Anderson | which stilldidnt boot |
| 13:40.57 | NeO_Anderson | and there's no errors in any log at all |
| 13:41.04 | NeO_Anderson | and th eonly thing I have to go on is that dmesg thing |
| 13:41.14 | NeO_Anderson | which shows everything being normal... |
| 13:41.19 | NeO_Anderson | well, normalish...a s it stops at iptables |
| 13:41.33 | NeO_Anderson | which im assuming is where the problem is occuring, whatever its trying to do after that |
| 13:41.34 | NeO_Anderson | :S |
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| 13:41.46 | NeO_Anderson | question is what >< |
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| 13:43.42 | arafangion | NeO_Anderson: Next time, figure out the kernel upgrade on a local machine first. Anyway, I'm off to bed, sorry. |
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| 13:44.58 | NeO_Anderson | no worries :( |
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| 14:00.46 | mamed | hello guys. have a problem with debian virtual machine . /etc/network(interfaces |
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| 14:01.46 | mamed | i wan to use my host internet with nat or bridged but i think it is impossible . i fillled my interfaces file with 192.168.1.156 and submask as you know but i seems i cannot connect to internet |
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| 14:02.23 | bhuddah | mamed: have you added a default route? |
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| 14:02.32 | mamed | bhuddah: ??? |
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| 14:03.05 | jhutchins | !paste |
| 14:03.06 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 14:03.12 | NeO_Anderson | is anyone able to kindly assist me with the problem im facing? my system won't boot up at all it seems =x |
| 14:03.17 | babilen | mamed: Which system is virtualised and what do you use for virtualisation? What is the host running? |
| 14:03.25 | jhutchins | mamed: Paste your interfaces file |
| 14:03.33 | bhuddah | mamed: are you sure that there is connectivity? which virtualization solution are you using? |
| 14:03.39 | mamed | babilen: host is win 7 virtual is debian with xfce . |
| 14:03.48 | NeO_Anderson | after attempting to change kernels it wouldnt start =x |
| 14:03.52 | mamed | i use virtual box . and it is set to bridged |
| 14:03.54 | babilen | mamed: And what do you use for virtualisation? |
| 14:04.07 | bhuddah | mamed: do you have a dhcp server in your local lan? |
| 14:04.13 | mamed | no |
| 14:04.21 | mamed | wired network static ip |
| 14:04.21 | bhuddah | mamed: but you do have a router? |
| 14:04.22 | babilen | Ah, vbox .. can't help with that. Sorry -- Might want to try #vbox, but show us your network configuration too. |
| 14:04.25 | mamed | yes |
| 14:04.42 | NeO_Anderson | im not too clued up with grub.cfg so im not sure if there's any errors in there but dmesg shows a 'normal' booting procedure it seems http://pastebin.com/sVMKDTag |
| 14:04.44 | bhuddah | mamed: so have you configured your router as your next default hop in the virtual machine? |
| 14:04.48 | NeO_Anderson | and nothing after that =x |
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| 14:05.29 | mamed | bhuddah: i only filled the address and netmask part in the interface file |
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| 14:05.40 | mamed | must i fill other places also? |
| 14:05.41 | bhuddah | mamed: you have to configure a default route too |
| 14:05.52 | mamed | got confused |
| 14:05.53 | abrotman | nat and bridged are very different |
| 14:05.54 | bhuddah | mamed: or default gateway as it is often called |
| 14:07.00 | mamed | ok now i filled the addres part xx.xx.1.156 and netmaks 255. bla bla . and and gateway xx.xx.my gateway . |
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| 14:07.18 | bhuddah | mamed: restart the network |
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| 14:07.38 | mamed | ok |
| 14:07.45 | bhuddah | mamed: then ping the gateway ip |
| 14:07.52 | gribouille | hi |
| 14:07.57 | mamed | i rebooted thge virtual pc |
| 14:08.13 | gribouille | I have a mirrored logical volume. how can I know the physical volume that contains the mirror log? |
| 14:08.53 | mamed | must i fill nameservers also |
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| 14:09.14 | bhuddah | mamed: not for the connection testing. |
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| 14:10.47 | mamed | ok i rebooted when i type ifconfig it says eth0 bla Kib and bla Byte but when i try to apt-get update |
| 14:10.51 | mamed | it does not work |
| 14:11.03 | quetzakubica | Guys what keyboard settings should I set to have # on shift+3 and @ on shift+2 ? |
| 14:11.29 | quetzakubica | I have now english and I have " instead of @ |
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| 14:11.41 | bhuddah | mamed: please ping the gateway. |
| 14:12.23 | themill | quetzakubica: US rather than UK |
| 14:13.17 | mamed | network unreachable bhuddah |
| 14:13.41 | bhuddah | mamed: you have issues with your virtualization technology. |
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| 14:13.48 | quetzakubica | themill: thanks |
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| 14:14.26 | factor | What package install sys/select.h |
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| 14:14.39 | mamed | hm bhuddah maybe i must change my virtual box network settings as i said it is set to bridged |
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| 14:14.52 | bhuddah | mamed: have you tried installing another virtual box with windows in it? to test all the network related stuff? |
| 14:15.16 | mamed | bhuddah: i works with ubutu but debian minimal install:( |
| 14:15.52 | bhuddah | mamed: i think you run it on windows? |
| 14:15.57 | mamed | yes |
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| 14:16.19 | mamed | windows is host debian is thee guest |
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| 14:16.46 | bhuddah | mamed: yes. but the networking seems not work as expected atm. please fix that first. :) |
| 14:17.08 | mamed | i think it is ok now. |
| 14:17.21 | mamed | i typed apt-get update and it got some packages |
| 14:17.33 | mamed | thank you so much guyz. |
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| 14:17.58 | mamed | no sorry |
| 14:18.03 | bhuddah | no? |
| 14:18.11 | mamed | now is not working it says netwoerk is not reachable |
| 14:18.29 | babilen | m( |
| 14:18.55 | mamed | how sohlud i fill the areas |
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| 14:19.06 | mamed | must i fill the network part? |
| 14:19.21 | bhuddah | mamed: fix your virtualization first. |
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| 14:20.51 | el-aurian | babilen: are you back from lunch yet? |
| 14:21.14 | babilen | el-aurian: Yes, sure. Did you hear anything when you ran the speaker-test? |
| 14:21.38 | el-aurian | nope, but i have a problem with aplay -L |
| 14:21.40 | el-aurian | it now only returns null |
| 14:22.15 | el-aurian | i don't believe I changed anything, however I did restart |
| 14:22.50 | el-aurian | now alsamixer says there's no mixer and aplay -L only returns null |
| 14:23.02 | babilen | el-aurian: I do not really have time to investigate your issue in detail right now, but are both cards still listed in "cat /proc/asound/cards" ? |
| 14:23.33 | babilen | Something is fishy with your setup and I haven't seen behaviour like that. Cards don't just disappear during a reboot - When was the last time you restarted? |
| 14:23.42 | el-aurian | asound isn't in /proc anymore |
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| 14:24.03 | gribouille | I have a mirrored logical volume. how can I know the physical volume that contains the mirror log? |
| 14:24.23 | babilen | el-aurian: Did you fiddle with your kernel or kernel modules? |
| 14:24.45 | babilen | el-aurian: Does it reappear if you "modprobe snd" ? |
| 14:24.58 | ezra-s | gribouille, vgdisplay, vgs |
| 14:25.00 | el-aurian | yes |
| 14:26.02 | babilen | el-aurian: You fiddled with your kernel *and* /proc/asound reappears if you run "modprobe snd" or some variation thereof? |
| 14:27.21 | el-aurian | babilen: before I came on to begin with I had tried several things, I followed the ICH6 tutorial on the alsa wiki, and that told me to modprobe snd-pcm-oss, and two others |
| 14:27.40 | el-aurian | I ran into a problem because snd-seq-oss isn't compiled into the kernel anymore |
| 14:27.45 | el-aurian | (by debian) |
| 14:27.48 | babilen | yes, and rightfully so |
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| 14:27.56 | NeO_Anderson | can anyone help me with a machine not booting up, I've changed kernels and it failed to boot, then changed it back and it still fails to boot :S |
| 14:28.24 | gribouille | ezra-s, what options? |
| 14:28.27 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: Changed kernels how? And we really have to know what you've done to it and how it behaves right now. |
| 14:28.52 | NeO_Anderson | ty for replying |
| 14:29.04 | NeO_Anderson | ok basically I used apt-get to install the new kernel |
| 14:29.06 | NeO_Anderson | no errors there |
| 14:29.10 | babilen | el-aurian: Pray continue ... It looks as if you broke something but its hard to know how and what without further details. |
| 14:29.38 | NeO_Anderson | I then edited /etc/default/grub 'DEFAULT' value from 0 to 3 (my new kernel from the menu list) |
| 14:29.46 | NeO_Anderson | I ran update-grub and no errors there |
| 14:29.47 | el-aurian | babilen: I've just inserted snd-intel8x0 and aplay -L lists ICH6 |
| 14:30.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1373] by debhelper |
| 14:30.04 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: You typically cannot simply "apt-get install" a new kernel as you will have the latest one for your release. Which Debian release do you track and where did you install a new kernel from? Could you show me the output of "apt-cache policy" and "aptitude search ~i~n^linux-image" on http://paste.debian.net please? |
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| 14:30.17 | babilen | el-aurian: You shouldn't have to modprobe those manually. |
| 14:30.23 | Rackmount | Ne0_Anderson: What error message are you seeing? If you see multiple lines of output, please don't paste here, put it on pastebin. |
| 14:30.25 | el-aurian | babilen: I agree |
| 14:30.26 | gribouille | for a given lv, how can I know on which pv it is stored? |
| 14:30.57 | NeO_Anderson | one moment I'll pastebin what babilen requested |
| 14:31.02 | babilen | el-aurian: It looks as if you changed something (e.g. kernel/udev configuration) or as if you blacklisted some modules. |
| 14:31.16 | el-aurian | babilen: looking at the boot screen, it says "Setting up ALSA...Done (none needed) |
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| 14:31.20 | NeO_Anderson | Rackmount its a remote machne so I dont see the screen or potential errors |
| 14:31.24 | messa4 | What is the best block size for filesystem on cheap SSD card? 1024, 2048 or 4096? I care about endurance of cells, speed is secondary. |
| 14:31.27 | NeO_Anderson | Rackmount also nothing in logs |
| 14:31.59 | el-aurian | babilen: before I came on earlier in an effort to follow the alsa wiki, I installed oss4-dpkg, but I then removed it before reboot |
| 14:32.13 | el-aurian | i noticed dpkg mentioned that oss4-* can blacklist alsa |
| 14:32.33 | el-aurian | so I believe I purged it, to prevent this from happening |
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| 14:33.22 | babilen | el-aurian: OSS4 is a completely different sound system and installing that might have altered your configuration significantly - You realise that it is *very* hard to debug your problem in this situation, don't yoU? |
| 14:33.49 | Rackmount | Ne0_Anderson: You will likely need to be on site with the machine in order to get help. There's only so much that can be done, and almost nothing can be done on a downed box when it's remote. |
| 14:34.11 | Rackmount | Unless it has a remote console built into it. |
| 14:34.46 | NeO_Anderson | Rackmount I have a rescue mode which enables me access to the system as if I were using ssh |
| 14:34.51 | el-aurian | babilen: I don't appreciate that, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. however, I chose to because it was the only oss package that seemed relevant |
| 14:34.54 | NeO_Anderson | i've chrooted into it |
| 14:34.55 | babilen | el-aurian: I don't have the time to look into the oss4 maintainer scripts and I am not familiar with it at all, but I know that the behaviour you see right now is *not* the default behaviour and what you see indicates that there are still some blacklists in place. (or udev changes) |
| 14:34.58 | Rackmount | I see. |
| 14:34.59 | NeO_Anderson | babilen http://pastebin.com/pUpPCWzP |
| 14:35.19 | NeO_Anderson | let me get the other output on pastebin |
| 14:35.26 | babilen | el-aurian: You don't want OSS (unless you want it) - ALSA + PA should work just fine. |
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| 14:35.54 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: yeah, and please use http://paste.debian.net or another pastebin without ads, social network integration, captchas, ... ;) |
| 14:35.56 | leitao | Hi. How do I disable hardening on packages compilation? dpkg-buildflags is returning CFLAGS with hardening options, that I don't want |
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| 14:36.07 | el-aurian | babilen: I understand, I don't want it, however I hoped that oss4-dpkg would provide the snd-seq-oss module which I was looking for |
| 14:36.09 | el-aurian | the name seemed to match what I was looking for |
| 14:36.27 | el-aurian | (I was looking for this because the alsa wiki directed me to insert the module and it wasn't there) |
| 14:36.33 | NeO_Anderson | babilen http://pastebin.com/jfThzRU1 |
| 14:36.37 | NeO_Anderson | oh |
| 14:36.39 | NeO_Anderson | sorry babilen |
| 14:36.46 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: Sorry, I won't support that configuration. |
| 14:36.57 | NeO_Anderson | what do you mean :o |
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| 14:37.48 | el-aurian | babilen: am I right in assuming that the blacklists are not standardised in such a way that I can simply locate the file and either delete or edit it? |
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| 14:38.01 | linu | whhats a good debian laptop? |
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| 14:38.54 | babilen | el-aurian: You would find them in /etc/modprobe.d/, but I wouldn't simply delete that file but figure out which package it belongs to and how it got there. |
| 14:38.57 | Rackmount | linu: That's a difficult question to answer. The best way to determine which laptop to purchase is to research what hardware is available, and which of that available hardware is supported by Debian. |
| 14:39.10 | babilen | linu: thinkpads are great, but this is rather a topic for #debian-offtopic |
| 14:39.40 | linu | ok i joined #debian-offtopic |
| 14:39.56 | linu | Rackmount: yeah i guess i will have to see whats available, that works good under wheezy |
| 14:40.03 | Rackmount | With that said, I've had very good luck with HP, Dell, and Acer laptops in general. However, i would recommend that you try to find one with nVidia hardware in it, instead of ATI, as ATI's Linux drivers are still a bit "iffy" IMHO. |
| 14:40.11 | linu | meanwhile this laptop annoys me so much i think i will use a hammer on it |
| 14:40.22 | babilen | el-aurian: Well, I have other work to do right now, but I would investigate along the lines of "Why aren't my modules loaded automagically and how can I revert my earlier changes to the default setup?" |
| 14:40.30 | NeO_Anderson | babilen please explain what you meant by you can't support that configuration? am I using a kernel I shouldnt be? if so this was installed by my providers to which im more than happy to remove... |
| 14:40.38 | NeO_Anderson | all I wan't is a working server :S lol |
| 14:40.53 | Rackmount | linux: you could always try Slackware on it. :) I've actually never installed Slackware on any piece of hardware where one single piece of hardware did not work. :) |
| 14:41.04 | el-aurian | babilen: there are 3 files of relevance oss4-base.conf oss4-base_noALSA.conf oss4-base_noOSS3.conf |
| 14:41.15 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: You use at least two third-party repositories that i won't support (virtualbox + download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:ksmanis whatever that might be) |
| 14:41.25 | el-aurian | i assume they belong to oss4-base |
| 14:41.34 | NeO_Anderson | ok ill remove them |
| 14:41.39 | NeO_Anderson | once i figure out how lol |
| 14:41.47 | babilen | el-aurian: yeah, all those shouldn't be there. What does "dpkg -S /etc/modprobe.d/oss4-base_noALSA.conf" give you? What about "aptitude search ~i~noss" and "aptitude search ~c" ? |
| 14:41.49 | el-aurian | which for some reason (I ordered it's dependant packages purge) has been left |
| 14:42.03 | Rackmount | All your oss4-base are belong to $REPO. |
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| 14:42.06 | linu | Rackmount: interesting i might try slackware, do you know if slackware can setup nvidia optimus ? |
| 14:42.15 | el-aurian | oss4-base is still on my system, I was just going to purge it now |
| 14:42.22 | el-aurian | do you want me to run those commands first? |
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| 14:42.46 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: You also only have a single kernel installed (2.6.32 from squeeze) even though you've added squeeze-backports to your sources.list (which hints at the fact that you planned to install 3.2 from backports) |
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| 14:43.06 | babilen | judd: file /etc/modprobe.d/oss4-base_noALSA.conf |
| 14:43.08 | Rackmount | linu: I'm not entirely certain, howver, Slackware can be a bit daunting if you're relatively inexperienced with Linux. What I can say is that it just seems to "magically" work with pretty much everything you throw it on. |
| 14:43.10 | judd | Search for /etc/modprobe.d/oss4-base_noALSA.conf in wheezy/i386: oss4-base: etc/modprobe.d/oss4-base_noALSA.conf |
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| 14:43.22 | NeO_Anderson | I just followed guides to install virtualbox and to install a 'stock kernel' lol and it didnt go so well.. >< |
| 14:43.35 | NeO_Anderson | I have now removed those repos from my source.lst file |
| 14:43.38 | NeO_Anderson | and ran apt-get update |
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| 14:43.48 | babilen | el-aurian: I thought you reverted *all* changes you've done to your system. Sure you should purge that, but the output of those commands is still interesting. |
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| 14:44.16 | NeO_Anderson | babilen my new output from that command: http://pastebin.com/EsRRaB88 |
| 14:44.33 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: So, it worked before you installed virtalbox from those unsupported repositories? You are aware that vbox *is* packaged in Debian aren't you? and which kernel did you install? |
| 14:44.50 | NeO_Anderson | one moent ill get exact name |
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| 14:45.07 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: May I remind you of http://paste.debian.net again? If you don't like that use http://refheap.com or http://paste.ubuntu.com or ... ;) |
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| 14:45.15 | NeO_Anderson | oh crap |
| 14:45.17 | NeO_Anderson | ok ill use that |
| 14:45.28 | NeO_Anderson | also I had no idea vbox was installed by default |
| 14:45.51 | m00n__ | so im trying to install stable from the live, using a unetbootin live usb, but the standard build does not have my wireless drivers. Its an intel card, and i have hdd access from the live so i can download to this windows install and use that, but im having trouble figuring out which drivers to get. Windows tells me the card is a DW1501 wireless-n half card, but a basic google search does not turn up any obvious drivers for that, e |
| 14:45.55 | NeO_Anderson | my providers (ovh) installed some custom kernel which was spouting errors about vbox actually.. |
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| 14:46.35 | tgs3 | NeO_Anderson: grsecurity kernel? they are supposed to be securer :) |
| 14:46.45 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: It is not installed by default *but* it is packaged in Debian. Could you also tell me what OVH uses as virtualisation platform? It might very well be that you have to use their kernel in certain cases. |
| 14:47.19 | NeO_Anderson | babilen linux-image-2.6-xen-amd64 |
| 14:47.24 | NeO_Anderson | thats what I installed using apt-get install |
| 14:47.28 | el-aurian | babilen: I did revert all changes, however for some reason oss4-base, though not manually installed, wasn't uninstalled when I purged it's dependant package |
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| 14:47.42 | el-aurian | babilen: i'm just getting the outputs you requested |
| 14:48.21 | NeO_Anderson | after succesfully booting into that I then found out that virtualbox and xen = not a good move (as I was still getting errors) so I decided to swhich kernels again back to just a normal one |
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| 14:48.34 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: Why did you install a Xen kernel on a virtual machine? In particular if you want to run vbox? Why vbox in the first place? Is that a virtual machine or a real server? |
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| 14:48.50 | NeO_Anderson | it's a full dedicated server |
| 14:48.56 | NeO_Anderson | and I wanted to install virtualbox |
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| 14:49.05 | NeO_Anderson | but due to my providers custom kernel |
| 14:49.21 | NeO_Anderson | xbox was not compiling no modules could be made or something like that... |
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| 14:49.43 | m00n__ | anything?> |
| 14:49.55 | NeO_Anderson | after few google searches I found that I was not able to use ovh's custom kernel with this and that was the cause of it , so i switched to xen thinking xen can be my "backup" should virtualbox still fail with same errors... |
| 14:50.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1383] by debhelper |
| 14:50.03 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: Talk to OVH - you might require their kernel and you might want to consider using something like kvm (or Xen) in lieu of vbox anyway. |
| 14:50.21 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: You are aware that Xen is yet another virtualisation technology don't you? |
| 14:50.26 | babilen | *aren't you* |
| 14:50.27 | el-aurian | babilen: dpkg -S /etc/modprobe.d/oss4-base_noALSA.conf and aptitude search ~i~noss both return oss4-base |
| 14:50.27 | NeO_Anderson | that's the thing, even booting with their kernels it doesn't boot up |
| 14:50.28 | NeO_Anderson | :S |
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| 14:50.58 | el-aurian | I'm just pasting the aptitude search ~c output |
| 14:51.14 | NeO_Anderson | yeah I was thinking that if virtualbox dont work I can just try to install xen packages (whihc would probably require me to use an xen kernel) so I chose to install xen instead of jst a normal one >< |
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| 14:51.32 | NeO_Anderson | babilen is there anyway I can just install a fresh 2.6 kernel ? |
| 14:51.38 | NeO_Anderson | and boot into that? |
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| 14:52.07 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: Talk to them and let them reimage your solution. You might want to start with wheezy and it would make sense to investigate if you can use your own kernels. You also don't need a Xen kernel if you want to use vbox, but it might make sense to investigate other virtualisation schemes such as KVM and Xen in lieu of vbox in the first place. You also shouldn't install vbox from their repositories as we neither recommend nor support that. |
| 14:52.36 | el-aurian | babilen: aptitude search ~c: http://paste.debian.net/30408/ |
| 14:52.39 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: Talk to your provider and don't install random (or semi-random) third-party packages. |
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| 14:52.41 | el-aurian | shall I now remove oss4-base? |
| 14:52.59 | NeO_Anderson | ok putting virtualizsation aside completely |
| 14:52.59 | babilen | el-aurian: Please *purge* it. |
| 14:53.14 | el-aurian | I intended to |
| 14:53.24 | el-aurian | shall I now restart? |
| 14:53.32 | NeO_Anderson | im starting to give up on that all now anyway, I just need my machine back up. if I wanted to just get it back online without formatting because my providers are saying its an unmanaged server and that I'm on my oen basically... |
| 14:53.38 | babilen | el-aurian: You should also run "aptitude purge ~c" to remove the configuration files of removed-but-not-purged packages. |
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| 14:53.51 | NeO_Anderson | so asking them for help is a dead end :S |
| 14:54.06 | NeO_Anderson | they advised I use this rescue mode to fix it and if taht fails format the machine |
| 14:54.10 | *** join/#debian codesoup (~codesoup@76-10-132-159.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:54.11 | NeO_Anderson | but I really dont want to format it.. =x |
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| 14:54.40 | NeO_Anderson | so if I can somehow install just a normal kernel back and get it working.. evne if its without all the virtual stuff i will do that and leave it there, is that possible? :S |
| 14:54.53 | el-aurian | babilen: I see, I already have |
| 14:55.06 | wdouglass | i'm trying to write a udev rule to ignore certian devices, but ignore_device seems to be removed from udev! does anyone know how i can use udev to blacklist devices? thanks. |
| 14:55.12 | el-aurian | o sorry, purge.. 1 second |
| 14:55.36 | el-aurian | done. restart? |
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| 14:56.55 | jhutchins | NeO_Anderson: What is with "=x"? |
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| 14:58.21 | el-aurian | babilen: shall I now restart? |
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| 14:58.32 | NeO_Anderson | false of habit jhutchins lol |
| 14:58.37 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: I have no idea how to get it into whatever configuration OVH expects. The fact that they ship their own kernel hints at the fact that they require certain modifications .. No idea how that combines with the Debian stock kernel (let alone from compiling third-party vbox modules against it) |
| 14:58.44 | babilen | el-aurian: yes, but I have to run now |
| 14:59.02 | el-aurian | babilen: ok, thanks for everything |
| 14:59.16 | NeO_Anderson | they don't require their custom kernels, many customers have changed frmo using their kernels |
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| 14:59.23 | babilen | el-aurian: Let me know if that works and repeat the earlier experiments |
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| 14:59.42 | NeO_Anderson | their kerenls come with 'securty fixes' and customers can change to a stock kernel if they wish to |
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| 15:00.29 | NeO_Anderson | looking at the control panel thing ther eis actually an option that when you create a template to install that you choose whether or not to install the 'recommended kernel' (their custom one) or a normal one marked as 'advanced users' |
| 15:00.34 | m00n | so theres no help to be had |
| 15:00.39 | NeO_Anderson | so thats probably why I just clicked on recommended at the time >< |
| 15:01.06 | NeO_Anderson | buts its certainly not mandatory to have their kernel if you want a working server |
| 15:01.13 | NeO_Anderson | its just they want their network secure I presume |
| 15:01.19 | NeO_Anderson | or as secure as possible |
| 15:01.38 | jhutchins | m00n: Hang on. |
| 15:01.59 | m00n | sorry, having a bad morning. It would be nice to have a confirmation, like that. |
| 15:02.09 | jhutchins | m00n: First off, we don't recommend unetbootin, but if it works for you, fine. |
| 15:02.12 | m00n | im gonna go smoke a cigarette, give yall some time. sorry |
| 15:02.21 | m00n | oh, now? pok |
| 15:02.22 | jhutchins | !tell m00n about installer firmware |
| 15:02.23 | m00n | ok* |
| 15:02.38 | jhutchins | See msg from dpkg. |
| 15:02.56 | jhutchins | m00n: You don't need anything from Windows. |
| 15:03.01 | m00n | jhutchins i have no internet connection on the box, im just trying to do an install. its a netbook, afaik unetbootin is the only way to do it |
| 15:03.17 | NeO_Anderson | at this moment I think my only option is to format =x |
| 15:03.22 | babilen | dpkg: tell m00n -about usb install |
| 15:03.45 | m00n | ah |
| 15:03.49 | NeO_Anderson | but surely there can be something I can do to make this work without formatting? |
| 15:04.21 | m00n | thats what i needed, thanks bailen |
| 15:04.23 | m00n | babilen |
| 15:04.27 | jhutchins | points out that NeO_Anderson could have rebuilt the system in the time he's spent here. |
| 15:04.43 | NeO_Anderson | i could |
| 15:04.50 | NeO_Anderson | but the data loss is the reason i havent |
| 15:04.51 | NeO_Anderson | >< |
| 15:04.57 | NeO_Anderson | its a remote machine |
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| 15:07.07 | babilen | NeO_Anderson: Seriously: You install random packages from who-knows-which repositories that we really cannot support - Obviously doing that (in combination with installing a Xen kernel for a reason I still don't understand) and probably a number of other changes that we do not know about broke your system. I would recommend to setup a new instance (this time with wheezy as that saves you the upgrade from squeeze to wheezy) and to make sure to ... |
| 15:07.13 | babilen | ... *not* use *any* third-party repositories. VBox is packaged by Debian and you can install that, but I would recommend either KVM (optionally with virt-manager or virsh) or Xen ... |
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| 15:08.11 | NeO_Anderson | alritgtie |
| 15:08.15 | NeO_Anderson | alrightie* |
| 15:08.22 | NeO_Anderson | well |
| 15:08.33 | NeO_Anderson | appreciate the help you have given |
| 15:09.00 | Iridos | hm, what program does the automounting in gnome-shell? that seems broken on my work wheezy system... I have to pmount myself, then it pops up silly messages that it's mounted, but not on plug-in |
| 15:09.08 | babilen | Iridos: nautilus |
| 15:09.47 | Iridos | that's not running |
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| 15:10.09 | babilen | Iridos: ta da! |
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| 15:10.57 | Iridos | babilen, I think that must have been pre-gnome3, though... running one makes no difference... it just sits as a window in foreground |
| 15:11.26 | Iridos | although... it does show the devices... but there was something on my fresh wheezy install that auto-mounted it under /media/disklabel |
| 15:11.28 | babilen | Iridos: nautilus is the tool that does the mounting in Gnome for quite a while now |
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| 15:12.27 | Iridos | hm, it does it when I click on the drive |
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| 15:16.17 | cousin_luigi | Greetings. |
| 15:16.29 | Iridos | babilen, not sure it still does, though... but will compare to home, where automount still works, if nautilus is running there and with what options. |
| 15:16.39 | Iridos | at least I think it still works there :P |
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| 15:24.25 | cousin_luigi | dist-upgrading squeeze to wheezy, bind9 fails like this: http://pastebin.com/46P38QFR <- what would you recommend? |
| 15:24.26 | hoxu | Trying to install wheezy with debian-7.1.0-i386-netinst.iso on IDE DVD drive, installer boots up ok but ends up with "No common CD-ROM drive was detected" - any ideas? |
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| 15:28.48 | mumpitze1 | hoxu: lga775 board? |
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| 15:34.18 | wdouglass | Is there any way for udev rules to match the parent device of the device the rule is running against? |
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| 15:43.18 | Stevie-O | ugh. I have a virtual machine (VMWare) and I just upgraded the kernel from 2.6.26 to 3.10.2; the new kernel will not boot. It panics with VFS: unable to mount root. Output indicates that it is not finding *any* partitions at all. |
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| 15:43.52 | hoxu | mumpitze1, no, MSI |
| 15:45.41 | jhutchins | ,kernels |
| 15:45.42 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.11-rc4-686-pae (3.11~rc4-1~exp1); sid: 3.10-2-686-pae (3.10.7-1); jessie: 3.10-2-686-pae (3.10.5-1); wheezy-backports: 3.10-0.bpo.2-686-pae (3.10.5-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.46-1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.46-1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze3) |
| 15:46.12 | pmo | any fix out yet? for the new kernel that is |
| 15:46.14 | Stevie-O | hrm |
| 15:46.50 | jhutchins | Stevie-O: 3.10-2 or 3.10-0..2 |
| 15:46.58 | Stevie-O | I'm not sure |
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| 15:47.12 | jhutchins | Stevie-O: How did you install it? |
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| 15:47.26 | Stevie-O | apt-get install linux-image-686-pae or something similar |
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| 15:47.44 | pmo | i just joined, Stevie-O got a kernel panic from the new kernel too? |
| 15:48.27 | Stevie-O | linux-image-3.10-2-686-pae |
| 15:48.55 | armin | i have to admit i'm impressed how good the combination openbox + xfce4-panel works. |
| 15:48.56 | jhutchins | Stevie-O: The problem is that doesn't seem to be a current Debian kernel. |
| 15:49.20 | jhutchins | Stevie-O: D'Oh. Jessie. |
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| 15:49.50 | jhutchins | Stevie-O: Broken kernels are not unknown in testing. |
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| 15:50.08 | Stevie-O | okay, good to know that I'm not going insane :) |
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| 15:50.50 | babilen | Stevie-O: Which version of Debian do you use? An upgrade from 2.6.26 to 3.10 should be impossible |
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| 15:51.52 | Stevie-O | it's possible if you're in the middle of trying to achieve a dist-upgrade :D |
| 15:52.04 | pmo | anyways this kernel also had issues on bleeding edge systems long before debian added it |
| 15:52.06 | Stevie-O | this machine was built when squeeze was still in testing |
| 15:52.13 | pmo | dont know why it slipped trugh tho |
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| 15:54.05 | babilen | Stevie-O: No, it is also not possible during a dist-upgrade. It really should never happen. A .26 kernel (lenny) can be upgraded to a .32 (squeeze) one during the lenny->squeeze upgrade. A .32 one can be upgraded to 3.2 during the squeeze->wheezy upgrade. In either case a kernel upgrade might not be needed if you installed the kernel from backports already - A .26 to 3.10 upgrade implies that you upgrade from lenny to wheezy-backport or lenny to ... |
| 15:54.11 | babilen | ... jessie/sid, which is simply not something you should do. |
| 15:54.51 | Stevie-O | I can't remember the order anymore |
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| 15:55.02 | Stevie-O | is it lenny -> squeeze -> wheezy, or squeeze -> lenny -> wheezy? |
| 15:55.16 | bhuddah | a) |
| 15:55.24 | babilen | Stevie-O: Either way: it looks as if you do an upgrade that is not supported and it would help if you could provide the channel with more information. It is also typically a good idea (well, necessary) to upgrade from one major release to the next. That would, probably, be lenny->squeeze and squeeze->wheezy for you. |
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| 15:55.40 | Isil`Zha | hello. please let me know the default location of "dhcpd.leases" in debian. is it /var/lib/dhcp3/dhcpd.leases or /var/lib/dhcp/dhcpd.leases or something else? |
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| 15:55.58 | Stevie-O | yeah, I'm going to attempt going to wheezy as intermediate |
| 15:56.04 | Stevie-O | my apt sources all said squeeze |
| 15:56.05 | babilen | Stevie-O: The upgrade procedure is detailed in the release notes for each release you are upgrading to and it is of uttermost importance that you follow (and read!) them. |
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| 15:56.30 | babilen | Stevie-O: Squeeze uses a 2.6.32 kernel and not a 2.6.26 one. |
| 15:56.37 | babilen | dpkg: tell Stevie-O -about lenny->squeeze |
| 15:56.44 | babilen | dpkg: tell Stevie-O -about squeeze->wheezy |
| 15:56.45 | Stevie-O | did squeeze *always* use a 2.6.32 kernel? |
| 15:56.49 | babilen | yes |
| 15:56.59 | babilen | Well, since its release. |
| 15:57.05 | Stevie-O | ah. |
| 15:57.15 | jhutchins | It did have a 3.2 backport |
| 15:57.18 | Stevie-O | but as I said... when this thing was built, squeeze was still in testing |
| 15:57.58 | babilen | Stevie-O: Which means that your system is probably closer to lenny than squeeze if you haven't upgraded in the meanwhile. Either way you have to upgrade to squeeze completely before you can upgrade to wheezy. |
| 15:58.17 | Stevie-O | gotcha |
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| 16:01.25 | babilen | Stevie-O: It's important to take it step by step as we (and our maintainer scripts) do not support skipping releases. Given that you have some lenny/squeeze system there I would recommend to treat it as a lenny system for now and upgrade that to squeeze. That might be easy and simply involve upgrading various packages (udev, kernel, ...) without the need for manual changes, but it is important that you finish that before you attempt the upgrade ... |
| 16:01.30 | Stevie-O | in any case, this suggests an error in the dependency specification in the squeeze backport of 3.2 |
| 16:01.32 | babilen | ... to wheezy. |
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| 16:02.23 | Stevie-O | because the first thing I tried after coming in here with my original problem was to try installing the squeeze backport of 3.2 |
| 16:02.31 | Isil`Zha | i would need the information (location of dhcpd.leases) in preparation for a test. unfortunately i don't have a debian system to try it out on and "apt-file search" doesn't help |
| 16:02.41 | babilen | Stevie-O: Wheezy also doesn't come with a 3.10 kernel (that is found in wheezy-backports or jessie/unstable) and you can install that kernel version *once* you finished the upgrade to wheezy. Upgrading from lenny to the current testing will not work (you might have attempted that if you have "testing" in your sources.list) |
| 16:02.44 | Stevie-O | find /var -name '*.leases' |
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| 16:03.51 | Isil`Zha | Stevie-O: i don't have a debian system to test it on. |
| 16:04.01 | Isil`Zha | if you were referring to me after all |
| 16:04.25 | Stevie-O | well |
| 16:04.42 | Stevie-O | if you're preparing for a test, you might be better off just building one |
| 16:05.04 | babilen | Isil`Zha: /var/lib/dhcp/ but you might want to install a Debian system if you require it for tests or target it for deployment. |
| 16:05.23 | Stevie-O | grab a netinst cd and your favorite hypervisor (bochs, qemu, ...) |
| 16:06.10 | Isil`Zha | Stevie-O, babilen: thank you. i do have a server running debian. but i feel little temptation installing dhcp on it to test it out. |
| 16:06.20 | Stevie-O | I must also confess that it appears that my packages are slightly out of date |
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| 16:06.44 | babilen | Stevie-O: orly? ;) |
| 16:06.58 | Stevie-O | grabbing package #228... |
| 16:07.10 | babilen | (lenny->squeeze ?) |
| 16:07.19 | Stevie-O | well, squeeze testing, but yeah |
| 16:07.47 | Stevie-O | Let's see what tune2fs has to say |
| 16:07.53 | Stevie-O | Filesystem created: Thu May 10 09:44:37 2007 |
| 16:08.00 | babilen | There is no squeeze testing. What do you have in your sources.list now and what does "dpkg -l apt dpkg multiarch-support libc6" and "uname -a" give you? (paste it to http://paste.debian.net ) |
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| 16:08.24 | Stevie-O | But in 2007 there *was* Squeeze Testing |
| 16:08.56 | babilen | Stevie-O: Please show me the output and your sources.list :) |
| 16:09.18 | Stevie-O | hold on |
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| 16:10.41 | Stevie-O | http://paste.debian.net/30444/ |
| 16:10.41 | babilen | holds on to … |
| 16:11.05 | babilen | Stevie-O: And you /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 16:11.10 | Stevie-O | oh right |
| 16:11.33 | babilen | That is quite the clusterfuck you have there :( |
| 16:12.09 | Stevie-O | http://paste.debian.net/30447/ |
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| 16:13.05 | Stevie-O | oh, my mistake, it wasn't originally installed as squeeze |
| 16:13.08 | babilen | Stevie-O: Well, I have no idea what to tell you. You have a (presumably very unhealthy) mix of lenny, squeeze and wheezy that is simply .. well .. not supportable. |
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| 16:13.19 | roi1979 | Hi all! I've tried to check online and in man-pages for a way to display upgradeable packages with their origin (from sources.list, sources.list.d/*, perhaps ppa?) - is there such a tool? |
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| 16:14.11 | babilen | Stevie-O: I wonder how you managed to install install multiarch-support and libc6 from wheezy with that sources.list but the package/kernel/whatever mix you have there is certainly not supported and upgrading that to a clean wheezy system might be impossible. (anymore) |
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| 16:14.51 | babilen | Stevie-O: It is probably less work and more reliable if you install wheezy from scratch and then migrate your services and data |
| 16:15.50 | babilen | roi1979: No, there isn't. Given that you should only have official Debian repositories anyway it doesn't matter ;) -- You can probably hack something with apt-cache (cf. "/msg dpkg which repo") |
| 16:16.34 | babilen | roi1979: Just use something in lieu of the "dpkg -l | awk '/^.i/ {print $2}'" in that snippet to produce a list of upgradable packages. |
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| 16:19.01 | babilen | roi1979: Also note that the snippet shows you the repo for the currently installed package (hence the "/\*\*\*/" and not the candidate) |
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| 16:20.44 | snollux | Hello hello! I'm wondering if this is the correct syntax? It doesn't give any messages or anything if you try to install the .deb without the dependencies: http://pastebin.com/3XufgKgA |
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| 16:21.03 | roi1979 | babilen, Thanks! Wasn't even aware of dpkg's -l option. I'll hack on... |
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| 16:22.33 | babilen | snollux: You want #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net (aka irc.debian.org) and we really have to see exact configuration + output. |
| 16:22.55 | snollux | Thanks! |
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| 16:27.54 | freebirD2 | you guys, my / partition says it's 315MB, how can that be ?? it's almost full now, what should I do ? /dev/sda1 315M 254M 41M 87% / |
| 16:28.10 | musca | roi1979: i've been playing with aptitude search '~S~VCURRENT~U' -F '%c%a %v %V %t %p %d' |
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| 16:29.45 | musca | roi1979: i'm still working on the origin though. |
| 16:30.02 | Stevie-O | hrm |
| 16:30.08 | Stevie-O | 'the following packages have been kept back' |
| 16:30.09 | raboof | i'm doing dhcp for both wlan1 and eth1. what would be the suitable place to configure that, when both are active, I want the DNS server from eth1 and the default route for public IP's should be wlan1? |
| 16:30.17 | Stevie-O | any way to find out *why* a package is not being upgraded? |
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| 16:30.58 | raboof | (eth1 is sometimes a corporate network that has a DNS that does resolve public IP's, but routes them through some annoying proxy - wlan1 doesn't have the proxy but isn't able to access the private IP's) |
| 16:31.24 | TheWarden | Hi, how can I auto mount a CIFS share based on logged in user? Each user would have their own username and password. keep in mind I'm not using a GUI (X window). |
| 16:32.27 | raboof | TheWarden: how do they log in? ssh? |
| 16:32.42 | TheWarden | raboof: yes they login via ssh. |
| 16:32.53 | raboof | TheWarden: perhaps put something in their .bashrc (or whatever shell they use)? not sure how to store the credentials though. |
| 16:33.30 | roi1979 | musca, Thanks! Looking good! Would be great to have origin as well, but this is already a lot of information. |
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| 16:33.43 | TheWarden | raboof: yeah I suppose I could have it do a mount statement mmm but sudo is usually required I thought for the mount command |
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| 16:33.52 | freebirD2 | you guys, how should I proceed ? can't upgrade my sistem because it says that there is no space available, |
| 16:34.00 | freebirD2 | but my hd has 250GB, |
| 16:34.10 | Stevie-O | df -h |
| 16:34.10 | freebirD2 | but / has only 315 MB ??? |
| 16:34.20 | freebirD2 | and it's 85% full |
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| 16:35.10 | freebirD2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:35.26 | raboof | TheWarden: a google for 'fuse mount cifs' suggests it *might* be an option - don't have experience with that myself though |
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| 16:36.10 | freebirD2 | how do I expand this area ? |
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| 16:37.14 | jhutchins | TheWarden: You can configure a mountpoint in fstab to be user mountable. |
| 16:37.43 | raboof | jhutchins: but then only one user could be logged in (and have his disk mounted) at a time, right? |
| 16:37.46 | TheWarden | jhutchins: oh really, how does one do that? I'm trying to find info on this but haven't as of yet. |
| 16:38.02 | jhutchins | freebirD2: back up, reformat with a single partition + swap, restore. |
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| 16:38.15 | raboof | TheWarden: http://rhodesmill.org/brandon/2010/mounting-windows-shares-in-linux-userspace/ looked good at first glance |
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| 16:42.00 | jhutchins | TheWarden: I believe it's the "user" option, might be "users". |
| 16:42.12 | linu | hey so should i buy a desktop to run debian ? |
| 16:42.19 | freebirD2 | jhutchins, can't be man, please |
| 16:42.20 | linu | i.e. is the laptop situation hopeless? |
| 16:42.31 | freebirD2 | give me another option, can't I extend this partition ? |
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| 16:42.52 | spoonbender | linu: totally hopeles... we all run on desktop here... or pocket calculators |
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| 16:43.48 | spoonbender | linu: best thing is: look up laptops you like and search the interent for problem reports |
| 16:44.02 | linu | lol spoonbender |
| 16:44.12 | mtn | freebirD2: from a live disk you can run gparted and resize your partitions. make sure you have good backups first. |
| 16:44.13 | jhutchins | freebirD2: You can try messing with parted, shrink one partition and expand another. Supposedly LVM will do that too. Messing with partitions without a backup is not smart though, so might as well just repartition, it's fatster. |
| 16:44.23 | linu | i am pretty annoyed |
| 16:44.41 | *** part/#debian cousin_luigi (~luigi@unaffiliated/cousinluigi/x-395723) |
| 16:44.47 | freebirD2 | I see, |
| 16:44.50 | freebirD2 | tkss |
| 16:44.52 | spoonbender | linu: do you have already some specific laptops in mind? |
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| 16:45.10 | linu | spoonbender: i bought a sony vaio fit 15, and it runs terrible with debian |
| 16:45.14 | linu | wifi chip wont work |
| 16:45.22 | linu | cant get optimus working with latest GT735M GPU |
| 16:45.26 | linu | apart from that its great |
| 16:45.35 | linu | i bought the wrong one |
| 16:45.37 | jhutchins | linu: I've run linux on Dells, Acers, Thinnkpads, Samsung - many different laptop brands. Some worked better than others, most had most of the features working. |
| 16:45.39 | linu | i want to smash it with a hammer |
| 16:45.53 | linu | wifi and graphics, pretty important to me lol |
| 16:46.01 | spoonbender | :/ |
| 16:46.04 | linu | :/ |
| 16:46.05 | TheWarden | jhutchins: yes, that allows a user to mount but how to have it auto mount based on the user authenticated this is where I'm not sure how to do that. |
| 16:46.08 | mtn | linu: so mint didn't work out for you either? |
| 16:46.08 | linu | what a headache |
| 16:46.17 | spoonbender | linu: people will burn me for that - but did you try ubuntu? |
| 16:46.18 | jhutchins | TheWarden: bashrc |
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| 16:46.27 | linu | mtm: mint enabled the wifi in afew clicks but i could get nvidia optimus working on it either though |
| 16:46.27 | spoonbender | linu: or mint |
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| 16:46.48 | linu | spoonbender: unfortunately i am trying ubuntu now, its installing, i dont really want to run ubuntu though |
| 16:46.52 | raboof | linu: optimus huh.. i configured mine to use just the nvidea chip, not the intel one (in the bios) - that's not optimal for battery life and you get only 2 screens instead of 3, but it worked for me |
| 16:46.58 | raboof | linu: and yeah it's depressing :) |
| 16:47.00 | Kobra | hey, does anyone know what's going on here? http://screenshot.xiatek.org/Kobra/1377535347.png |
| 16:47.23 | linu | raboof: i which mine had a hardware mux and bios option like yours :) |
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| 16:47.34 | spoonbender | linu: the point is: if you get it to work in mint, you will get it to work with ubuntu, you will get it to work with debian :P |
| 16:47.35 | raboof | linu: ah :) |
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| 16:47.39 | linu | raboof: but there is no bios setting, and no way to physically connect the inbuilt nvidia to the inbuilt LCD :( |
| 16:48.06 | linu | spoonbender: lol true, optimus didnt work in mint, maybe it will in ubuntu |
| 16:48.11 | mtn | spoonbender: yesterday he said it worked great in mint |
| 16:48.15 | linu | if i can get it to work in ubuntu maybe i'll figure out what to do in debian |
| 16:48.32 | linu | mtn: yeah everything works great in mint, except the optimus ? |
| 16:48.42 | linu | i never said optimus works great in mint, because it doesnt work at all |
| 16:48.50 | spoonbender | linu: ah ok |
| 16:48.52 | linu | the wifi chip worked good though, easily |
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| 16:49.51 | raboof | linu: hmm then it should mostly be possible to make the wifi chip work in debian, perhaps you need some firmware package or other - but I know that can be frustrating, like, without wifi :) |
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| 16:50.16 | linu | raboof: yeah it needs a particular newer driver that isnt in debian repos |
| 16:50.20 | jhutchins | Iirc we checked the database yesterday and his chipset wasn't supported yet. |
| 16:50.28 | spoonbender | linu: go get them :) |
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| 16:50.43 | jhutchins | linu: Which means you can compile the driver from source. |
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| 16:51.04 | linu | i tried editing the source a very little bit to make it compile but couldnt get it working, im not that good and correcting driver source code |
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| 16:51.14 | linu | i did try compiling from source jhutchins :) |
| 16:51.54 | jhutchins | linu: Shouldn't have to mess with the source to get it to compile if if's decent linux kernel sourcecode. |
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| 16:52.26 | linu | jhutchins: well thats the thing, i dont think its decent kernel driver source code from the manufacturer lol |
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| 16:52.44 | linu | they only released it to dell for one specific laptop + ubuntu combo they where selling |
| 16:52.50 | linu | they never made a generic linux release for it |
| 16:53.18 | jhutchins | linu: The problem with laptops is that the hardware refresh is faster than desktops, and it's harder for Linux to keep up with. |
| 16:53.32 | spoonbender | linu: http://www.thelinuxguy.nl/how-tos/how-to-install-the-new-stable-nvidia-driver-319-17-for-linux/ |
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| 16:53.56 | linu | jhutchins: yeah thats a real problem, i walked in and came out with a haswell thaat was only released afew months ago, i really should have known better lol |
| 16:54.16 | jhutchins | linu: basically, enough developers have to have enough examples of the new hardware to reverse-engineer it, and they can't afford to just arbitrarily go buy new laptops to develop new hardware. |
| 16:54.16 | linu | i hadnt even heard of haswell lol, i thought ivy bridge was still the latest haha |
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| 16:55.01 | linu | jhutchins: no i cant expect linux developers should have to support every piece of hardware, they already write so many drivers, on windows the manufacturers release drivers. no fair for linux |
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| 16:56.02 | spoonbender | linu: did you already know the link i sent you |
| 16:56.05 | spoonbender | linu: they say they support your card.. |
| 16:56.06 | linu | thanks spoonbender: i might try something like that in ubuntu, although abit more complicated version as i have a muxless optimus setup |
| 16:56.36 | linu | spoonbender: yes they do, though i have a muxless GT735 so theres no physical connection between the nvidia and the LCD panel, it has to go through system ram then the intel card then out to the LCD |
| 16:56.44 | linu | requiring all sorts of complex drivers and things |
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| 16:57.07 | linu | its called "Optimus" technolog from nvidia, it uses the intel integrated GPU + the nvidia |
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| 16:57.12 | linu | its really unfortunate lol |
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| 16:57.53 | linu | i wont actually buy "Optimus" anything again |
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| 16:58.52 | linu | ok ubuntu is installed, now to google how to switch off ubuntu spyware |
| 16:59.15 | spoonbender | linu: do that later - first see to get stuff working |
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| 16:59.25 | linu | no i will do that first :p |
| 16:59.47 | spoonbender | linu: no need to do all that remove stuff and then notice that you can't get it to work anyway. |
| 16:59.55 | spoonbender | linu: but your time, your problem ;) |
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| 17:00.05 | linu | lol |
| 17:00.20 | linu | it will take like 20 minutes |
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| 17:03.29 | spoonbender | linu: what's the point of this optimus tech? sounds rather complicated... |
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| 17:04.26 | neyder | hi there |
| 17:04.51 | linu | spoonbender: the point is probably microsoft evangelists trying really hard to get this technology everywhere |
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| 17:05.18 | linu | the purported point of optimus is to save battery, the intel card is used until theres a heavy graphics load then the nvidia card is switched on |
| 17:05.25 | linu | the way they implement that is retarded |
| 17:05.38 | linu | they should just have 1 video card, and have it be able to be throttled |
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| 17:06.16 | linu | or they could implement it as they have, but leave the hardware mux and bios setting in their to switch to the nvidia card |
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| 17:06.53 | spoonbender | all laptops i bought until now are working/busines laptops with intel graphic cards. wireless was trouble some time but now it's fine. |
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| 17:11.12 | linu | spoonbender: yeah i think wireless is fine, i was just unlucky to buy the one laptop with unsupported wireless lol |
| 17:11.34 | badass | There is possibly a bug in Samba/Winbind that is preventing the require_membership_of option in Winbind from restricting access to a user that has the "User must change password at next logon" flag on their Active Directory account. |
| 17:12.00 | spoonbender | linu: but you're right - laptops is still pain... |
| 17:12.43 | linu | spoonbender: yeah i have found it quite a pain lol |
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| 17:13.18 | mtn | linu: laptops are easy with the right hardware, just have to but the right one :) |
| 17:13.28 | linu | yeah i must buy the right one |
| 17:13.28 | spoonbender | linu: yep |
| 17:13.36 | linu | it is totally my fault for not doing proper homework first |
| 17:13.39 | linu | just some quick googles lol |
| 17:13.43 | linu | normally i am much more indepth |
| 17:13.45 | linu | but not this time |
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| 17:13.50 | linu | and im paying the price lol |
| 17:13.50 | spoonbender | why |
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| 17:15.17 | linu | i will have to plug this in via cat to download wifi drivers |
| 17:15.27 | linu | brb |
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| 17:22.13 | RayzrShrp | is there a better teminal for gnome besides terminal or is that pretty good? I know some people use rxvt and other terminals |
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| 17:23.20 | Rackmount | RayzrShrp: "better" is a highly subjective term. What's better for you may not be better for others, so asking others what's better is a bit of a moot point. With that said, you may wish to try several alternatives, like Konsole, aterm, eterm, Xfce Terminal, etc. |
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| 17:27.38 | ksk | try terminator ;) |
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| 17:34.13 | fommil | hi all… does anybody know how to build a linux app that doesn't require such a recent version of glibc? when I try to run ubuntu-built binaries on debian, I get "/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14' not found " |
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| 17:36.19 | mumpitze1 | compile the binary on your debian box then |
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| 17:37.10 | fommil | mumpitze1: this is for a package I'm distributing |
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| 17:41.48 | mumpitze1 | fommil: same applies |
| 17:42.10 | fommil | mumpitze1: and this will then work on other linux systems? |
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| 17:44.03 | Rackmount | fommil: you've run into a classic issue many linux developers face... building binaries that will run on the highest number of systems possible, without creating a monstrous binary that nobody will want to run. :) |
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| 17:44.28 | fommil | Rackmount: yuck. How do binaries like the Oracle JDK deal with it? |
| 17:44.57 | linu | spoonbender: phew finally got wireless working in the test install |
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| 17:45.31 | Kodiac | sup fagz. |
| 17:45.40 | Rackmount | fommil: if I had to judge that based on the performance of their binaries, I would have to venture a guess that they don't do much in the way of optimization, and stick to older source trees to help ensure compatibility. However, you'll probably get a much more accurate answer from Oracle than from myself. |
| 17:45.57 | Kodiac | Rackmount: I suggest that you don't use that. |
| 17:46.02 | jcardinal | Setting up a new debian wheezy box, I went to modify the sudoers to enable the wheel group, and realized instead there is a sudo group. Has wheel been deprecated in favor of sudo? |
| 17:46.10 | Kodiac | jcardinal....please shut up. |
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| 17:46.35 | Rackmount | jcardinal: no, wheel should be there. |
| 17:46.47 | Kodiac | FUCK YOU ALL. |
| 17:46.48 | Kodiac | !ops |
| 17:46.48 | dpkg | Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. |
| 17:46.50 | Rackmount | I use su all the time on my Debian wheezy install. |
| 17:46.53 | Kodiac | !ops these fuckers |
| 17:46.53 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: these fuckers |
| 17:46.55 | fommil | Rackmount: I've never noticed much of a problem with the oracle binaries. If I compile for wheezy, how far back can I expect glibc to work? And how far forward? |
| 17:46.57 | Rackmount | Kodiac: please leave. |
| 17:47.05 | Kodiac | !ops Rackmount is trolling me. |
| 17:47.05 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: Rackmount is trolling me. |
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| 17:47.10 | Kodiac | !ops please stop Rackmount. |
| 17:47.11 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: please stop Rackmount. |
| 17:47.17 | Kodiac | !ops he's gonna fuck this shit up |
| 17:47.17 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: he's gonna fuck this shit up |
| 17:47.21 | Kodiac | !ops HE'S A FUCKING CUNT |
| 17:47.22 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: HE'S A FUCKING CUNT |
| 17:47.25 | Kodiac | !ops why is he a cunt |
| 17:47.25 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: why is he a cunt |
| 17:47.28 | Kodiac | !ops why just why |
| 17:47.28 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: why just why |
| 17:47.34 | Kodiac | !ops FUCKING BAN RACKMOUNT AND JCARDINAL |
| 17:47.34 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: FUCKING BAN RACKMOUNT AND JCARDINAL |
| 17:47.39 | Kodiac | !ops BAAAAAAN |
| 17:47.40 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@108.166.161.213] by ChanServ |
| 17:47.40 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kodiac complains about: BAAAAAAN |
| 17:47.45 | fommil | wtf? |
| 17:47.55 | tgs3 | Kodiac: are you all right? |
| 17:48.04 | mumpitze1 | don't feed him folks |
| 17:48.08 | Rackmount | he's just trolling |
| 17:48.18 | fommil | Kodiac is sending me offensive private messages about rape |
| 17:48.25 | tgs3 | fommil: /ignore kodiac |
| 17:48.28 | Rackmount | fommil: use /ignore |
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| 17:48.50 | jcardinal | Rackmount: ok, that's what I thought. I looked at the list of groups on the box, and there is a sudo group but not a wheel group, so I'm confused. It's a pretty generic wheezy install, so I'm not sure why the wheel group doesn't exist and wanted to make sure I didn't just miss the memo... |
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| 17:49.00 | fommil | and clear my screen |
| 17:49.12 | fommil | right, where were we about glib? |
| 17:49.18 | fommil | glibc* |
| 17:49.27 | Rackmount | jcardinal: nah. you possibly didn't allow root access during installation. |
| 17:49.58 | mumpitze1 | fommil: compile it on debian. as long as you don't need newer features of glibc, it will work on both |
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| 17:50.07 | jcardinal | Rackmount: gotcha. Guess I'll just create the wheel group and pay closer attention on my next install to see what I left out / disabled |
| 17:50.21 | mumpitze1 | !wheel |
| 17:50.21 | dpkg | from memory, wheel is the traditional name of security group 0 in BSD (from slang for "big wheel" as a powerful person). This group is irrelevant in the default Debian configs but you can use the "sudo" group to give users the ability to run commands as root through sudo; ask me about <sudoers>. Alternatively, look at the pam_wheel module for <PAM> which will only allow su to root from members of the wheel group. |
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| 17:50.37 | Rackmount | jcardinal: it asks you at the time when you are prompted to set the root password and create a local user. |
| 17:50.53 | fommil | mumpitze1: thanks but I would like to know how far back this will work |
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| 17:51.22 | mumpitze1 | fommil: for the same shared lib major version, by definition |
| 17:51.24 | Rackmount | jcardinal: oh, and BTW, that option shows for expert installations... I don't know about normal installations. :\ |
| 17:51.31 | fommil | mumpitze1: e.g. what is the oldest version of debian it will work on |
| 17:51.40 | mumpitze1 | fommil: the one you compile it on |
| 17:51.51 | jcardinal | Rackmount: I did do those things. I have a root user and a regular user that both work. I was going to add the regular user to the wheel group and then give wheel sudo permissions in /etc/sudoers, and that's when I found the sudo group defined instead of wheel, and then found that the system currently has no wheel group |
| 17:52.00 | fommil | mumpitze1: for GLIBC it seems to be only valid up to point releases, not major versions |
| 17:52.04 | mumpitze1 | fommil: you want to create a .deb anyways, where it specifies the minimum version |
| 17:52.11 | Rackmount | jcardinal: was this an expert install? |
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| 17:52.25 | fommil | mumpitze1: not I don't want to create a deb. It's being distributed using a different system. |
| 17:52.38 | mumpitze1 | fommil: shared lib versioning is something differebnt. libx.so.2.1.2.3.4 isn't just for show. these numbers in the filename have important meanings |
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| 17:53.29 | fommil | mumpitze1: I am aware of that. But the glibc is different |
| 17:53.45 | fommil | mumpitze1: it seems to break on MAJOR.MINOR.POINT -> POINT changes |
| 17:54.05 | fommil | mumpitze1: whereas most libraries I know of are compatible to the major release number (e.g. libgfortran3) |
| 17:54.09 | jcardinal | Rackmount: I *think* so. I created a very stripped down install on a VM, which I've then been cloning when I want to spin up new boxes, so I've forgotten exactly what I did on the original install. I *was* treating it as a lean/minimal install though, so maybe I declined some otherwise-normal options...now I'm really curious what I would have declined! |
| 17:54.47 | mumpitze1 | fommil: I can run lenny binaries just fine here. that's quite some versions back... |
| 17:55.02 | mumpitze1 | fommil: so while I haven't explicitly looked into it, I say you are wrong |
| 17:55.07 | Rackmount | jcardinal: it wouldn't suprise me if it was something as simple as that. I've not known debian installations to do things other than what they're told. :) |
| 17:55.41 | fommil | mumpitze1: so that's backwards compatibility, I'm talking about forwards compatibility. Can you run your wheezy bins on lenny? |
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| 17:56.09 | jcardinal | Rackmount: You don't think the computer made a bad decision on its own just to mess with me? Seems more likely than me making a mistake on my own... :) |
| 17:56.18 | mumpitze1 | jcardinal: you simply have declined having a root password. which then sets up sudo. debian does this since squeeze I think |
| 17:56.25 | Rackmount | jcardinal: that only happens if you run Windows. :) |
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| 17:56.44 | jcardinal | mumpitze1 |
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| 17:57.37 | jcardinal | mumpitze1: Are you saying I *should* have declined having a root password, and then the install would prompt me to set up sudo? |
| 17:57.59 | xingu | jcardinal: my very vanilla wheezy systems also do not have a wheel group fwiw. |
| 17:58.03 | Rackmount | mumpitze1: I'm curious, does debian ask you if you want a root password on a normal install? I've only run through the expert install on both squeeze and wheezy. |
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| 17:58.20 | mumpitze1 | jcardinal: it won't prompt. it just does then. no further action necessary |
| 17:58.24 | xingu | jcardinal: not that I particularly want one, it's always been a fairly broken concept. :) |
| 17:58.27 | fommil | mumpitze1: because I am getting problems running bins that were for GLIBC_2.14 not working on GLIBC_2.13 |
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| 17:58.42 | fommil | mumpitze1: that's a MINOR number change, not MAJOR |
| 17:58.44 | mumpitze1 | fommil: what kind of problems? |
| 17:58.55 | Rackmount | xingu: but then how can you instill fear into the local users of the system? |
| 17:58.58 | Rackmount | :) |
| 17:59.04 | mumpitze1 | fommil: and obviously, if you compile for a later version, earlier libs don't work DUH! |
| 17:59.20 | fommil | mumpitze1: it's hardly obvious |
| 17:59.30 | mumpitze1 | fommil: that's why I told you to compile it under an earler glibc, which will make it work on a later library too |
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| 17:59.51 | Rackmount | fommil: this goes back to my previous statement, about Linux devs having too choose between "latest" and "compatible". |
| 17:59.59 | mumpitze1 | fommil: it's dead obvious. a program compiled for vista x64 will not work on windows 95. how is that not glaringly obvious? |
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| 18:00.13 | peterS | well more precisely in the case of libc6, if you compile for a later libc, whether or not it will work on earlier libc all depends on exactly what libc features your program uses |
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| 18:00.24 | Rackmount | it's best to be conservative about what you build your software upon. |
| 18:00.30 | peterS | for a hello world program, it will work from libc of 15 years ago |
| 18:00.32 | jcardinal | xingu: At the risk of sounding like a fool...how is the wheel group a broken concept? It seems easy enough; make a list of people who are allowed full control of the box. :-/ |
| 18:00.36 | fommil | mumpitze1: yes, but you weren't very explicit about why. I've inferred from what you've all been saying that binaries are backwards compatible (i.e. compile on version X.Y it will work on X.Y+) |
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| 18:00.41 | xingu | peterS: like, for example, sysenter. :) |
| 18:00.42 | peterS | even if you compile with today's snapshot |
| 18:01.02 | peterS | xingu: eh, hello world isn't going to refer to sysenter. hardly anything does really, that's what libc is _for_ (: |
| 18:01.03 | fommil | mumpitze1: I just compiled some bins on Windows 8 that work on XP |
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| 18:01.17 | Rackmount | peters: hello_world.c has long been deprecated in favor of hello_galaxy.c. |
| 18:01.19 | fommil | mumpitze1: this is called "forwards compatibility" |
| 18:01.22 | mumpitze1 | fommil: if you carefully select the libraries |
| 18:01.31 | peterS | Rackmount: oh, my bad |
| 18:01.33 | jcardinal | mumpitze1: Interesting. Thanks. |
| 18:01.37 | fommil | mumpitze1: yes, exactly, which is what my question is about. |
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| 18:01.53 | fommil | mumpitze1: so, I'd like to compile for the most compatible libc |
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| 18:02.13 | mumpitze1 | fommil: again: compile for debian and and the latter ubuntu versions will work |
| 18:02.23 | Rackmount | slides a beer across the bar to peterS "Cheers!" |
| 18:02.28 | mumpitze1 | compile for the earliest distro you want to support |
| 18:02.36 | xingu | peterS: <lack of fact checking alert> I suspect anything that calls read(2) or write(2) however indirectly will bang the vdso drum. :) |
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| 18:02.41 | peterS | fommil: if you compile with libc X, your program _may_ work on libc Y < X. It depends on what features your program uses. It is easy to check this, btw: use 'objdump -p' on your binary and look at the needed versions table at hte bottom of the output |
| 18:02.55 | fommil | mumpitze1: yes, thanks. I got that about 5 minutes ago. What I am now trying to assess is how far back the current GLIBC has been in circulation |
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| 18:03.19 | fommil | peterS: it seems to be the version number that's hardcoded… not necessarily my use of the functions |
| 18:03.21 | mumpitze1 | glibc2 is very old |
| 18:03.23 | peterS | xingu: yes, well, that's libc's problem. if you call read() and build with the latest and greatest libc, I suspect the libc read() ABI hasn't changed in a very long time so your program will work with libc going back 10 or 15 years |
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| 18:03.42 | fommil | mumpitze1: but GLIBC-2.13 specifically? |
| 18:03.54 | fommil | mumpitze1: because I'm guessing my bins won't work with GLIBC-2.12 |
| 18:04.02 | mumpitze1 | fommil: do you need anything from GLIBC-2.13 point in time? |
| 18:04.08 | peterS | fommil: as I said, run 'objdump -p' on your binary to see exactly what old or new libc features you turn out to be using (and thus the minimum libc that will be needed at runtime) |
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| 18:04.27 | fommil | peterS: I am not using anything from libc… it's actually a fortran library |
| 18:04.41 | fommil | peterS: so any use is actually from the fortran lib |
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| 18:05.12 | peterS | fommil: oh well, libc is a bit of a special case. if you're not really asking about libc, our answers will probably be somewhat different. libc has a lot of backward + forward compat stuff in it that most other libraries do not |
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| 18:06.07 | fommil | peterS: it says this required from libc.so.6: |
| 18:06.07 | fommil | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:06.25 | peterS | fommil: right, GLIBC_2.2.5 is like 15 yaers old, any libc on any linux system will satisfy that |
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| 18:06.52 | fommil | peterS: cool |
| 18:06.58 | fommil | peterS: the one from Ubuntu says required from libc.so.6: |
| 18:06.58 | fommil | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:06.59 | fommil | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:07.00 | fommil | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:07.46 | fommil | seriously? I get kicked for a 3 line "flood" |
| 18:07.50 | peterS | fommil: eh, careful how many lines to paste, our bots can be touchy about that. Anyway, GLIBC_2.14 is much more recent. wheezy has only 2.13. |
| 18:08.08 | fommil | and some guy comes on and talks about r**ping my mother and spams us for like 10 minutes? |
| 18:08.10 | fommil | anyways... |
| 18:08.36 | fommil | ok, cool. thanks peterS the explanation behind this has been very enlightening |
| 18:08.49 | linu | i will have to wait till the next version of debian stable is releasd |
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| 18:09.34 | peterS | no problem, fommil. just thought I should clarify the misunderstanding going around "you can NEVER compile against a newer library and have it work on an older system!" which in libc's case is ... not always the case |
| 18:09.51 | fommil | peterS: yes, I thought it was fodder ;-) |
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| 18:10.12 | peterS | there's some truth to it. you can never _guarantee_ that builing on a new system will yield a binary that works on older systems |
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| 18:11.37 | _br_ | I have an old vserver here. If I get all packages via dpkg -l | awk '{print $2}' (only the package names), I want to be able to take that and replicate another container. Is that possible? Tried aptitude but it complains that it cant figure out the dependencies. Is there a way to generate a apt-get install line for all installed packages of a system? |
| 18:11.53 | _br_ | Or do I have to upgrade the container first ? |
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| 18:12.21 | peterS | _br_: I wrote a script to help me do that at some point. it involved multiple steps of installing, uninstalling, 'aptitude unmarkauto' and 'aptitude markauto'. |
| 18:12.24 | xingu | _br_: dpkg --get-selections ? |
| 18:12.54 | xingu | _br_: and of course the evil twin, --set-selections. |
| 18:13.00 | peterS | even then it didn't work perfectly, there was one hitch with debconf-i18n vs debconf-english that apt / aptitude had trouble figuring out on its own |
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| 18:13.13 | peterS | (yes, this was back in the days of debconf-english) |
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| 18:13.29 | _br_ | Hm I see |
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| 18:14.01 | peterS | yeah, dpkg --get-selections | ... | dpkg --set-selections followed by 'apt-get -f install' _might_ get you close |
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| 18:14.14 | _br_ | let me try... |
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| 18:17.22 | Firetail | i dont know why |
| 18:17.25 | Firetail | i got this error |
| 18:17.26 | Firetail | Failed to fetch http://mirror.bytemark.co.uk/debian/pool/main/y/yum/yum_3.2.12-1.2_all.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 2001:41c8:20:5e6::10 80] |
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| 18:18.01 | peterS | Firetail: eh... where did you get that? 3.2.12 is _ancient_ |
| 18:18.03 | mumpitze1 | ,v yum |
| 18:18.05 | judd | Package: yum on i386 -- squeeze: 3.2.25-1; wheezy: 3.2.25-2; jessie: 3.4.3-2; sid: 3.4.3-2 |
| 18:18.21 | peterS | Firetail: I guess you'll need 'apt-get update' |
| 18:18.21 | mumpitze1 | Firetail: how about upgrading to a current version of debian? |
| 18:18.25 | Firetail | peterS, is on my source i didnt get it any where |
| 18:18.31 | Firetail | i did |
| 18:18.38 | Firetail | same same errors |
| 18:18.41 | Firetail | after update |
| 18:18.44 | mumpitze1 | Firetail: so what debian do you run and why do you need such an ancient version? |
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| 18:19.17 | Firetail | Just for some test |
| 18:19.19 | Firetail | pentest |
| 18:19.45 | peterS | Firetail: well, that's from a long-dead Debian version, it won't be on normal mirrors. If you really need it you will probably have to dig around archive.debian.org |
| 18:19.59 | Firetail | Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 \n \l |
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| 18:20.15 | peterS | well, not _long_ dead then I guess, but a couple years dead |
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| 18:20.50 | peterS | maybe 'deb http://archive.debian.org/debian lenny main' in your sources.list |
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| 18:20.56 | os_ | hi |
| 18:21.19 | os_ | i wonder what is the relation between Bash and ncurse ? |
| 18:21.37 | peterS | os_: no special relationship, just that bash uses readline which uses ncurses |
| 18:21.48 | os_ | hmm |
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| 18:22.02 | os_ | so i can't use Bash shell without ncurce ! |
| 18:22.04 | Firetail | Well Guys thanks ill try |
| 18:22.04 | os_ | so i can't use Bash shell without ncurse ! |
| 18:22.15 | _br_ | peterS: xingu: No dice. Seems the cage is too outdated, trying to do some updates first on it... great idea though, thanks! |
| 18:22.21 | peterS | os_: ncurses comes standard on every Debian system so I'm not sure why you'd need to |
| 18:22.36 | os_ | Ok |
| 18:22.42 | os_ | peterS: thanks |
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| 18:23.23 | CheckDavid | I just found out that Debian can compress files to .zip =O |
| 18:23.25 | peterS | os_: oh hey look at that. recent bash is compiled against libtinfo5, which is from the ncurses source but appears to not actually be the full ncurses itself |
| 18:23.44 | os_ | i see .. |
| 18:23.55 | fommil | where can I get the raspberry pi cross-compiler? (HF) |
| 18:23.56 | peterS | (just the terminfo bits, which is all bash / readline ever needed anyway) |
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| 18:24.18 | os_ | i am trying to use Linux without this TUI widget toolkit |
| 18:24.29 | os_ | maybe i try another shell |
| 18:24.54 | CheckDavid | What does it mean to compress a file to .exe? |
| 18:24.57 | CheckDavid | Or a folder? |
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| 18:25.17 | peterS | CheckDavid: I'm not sure, but whatever it is, it's not related to Debian |
| 18:25.35 | CheckDavid | peterS, debian has the option to compress folders to .exe |
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| 18:25.53 | peterS | CheckDavid: "debian" has the option? What application specifically has the option? |
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| 18:26.25 | CheckDavid | peterS, I am not sure, I just right click > compress |
| 18:26.27 | jelly-home | CheckDavid: it depends, but usually it means the archive will have ability to run as an executable and unpack itself on its own |
| 18:26.39 | jelly-home | CheckDavid: right click in which window? |
| 18:26.40 | CheckDavid | jelly, and only run on windows I assume? |
| 18:26.57 | CheckDavid | jelly, the default file browser |
| 18:27.15 | jelly-home | oh, a Gnome file browser feature then |
| 18:27.42 | CheckDavid | Not sure, exactly, but weird |
| 18:27.47 | reavengrey | no cos froggen == alex ich > ocelot > hai |
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| 18:28.01 | reavengrey | wc |
| 18:28.15 | jelly-home | reavengrey: pasting in the wrong place? |
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| 18:28.42 | reavengrey | yea wrong chan |
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| 18:32.06 | Yukikaze | When I partition the disks while installing can I select the partition table to be GPT? (assuming the default is msdos) |
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| 18:32.34 | Rackmount | peterS: yeah, that .exe option is available. It must be some generic lempel-ziv zip compression with .exe header. |
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| 18:33.03 | Rackmount | CheckDavid: that .exe compression option is likely just there for distributing content easily for Windows users. |
| 18:33.26 | yareckon | hi folks, I have an ssh key question |
| 18:33.29 | scampbell | Yukikaze: yes, use the escape key to get the the main menu and change the debconf priority to low and then choose partitioning again. |
| 18:33.30 | CheckDavid | I see, thanks Rackmount |
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| 18:34.00 | yareckon | I notice with ssh -vvv that my ssh_client tries to offer all my keys in sequence to just about any server I try to log into |
| 18:34.13 | scampbell | Yukikaze: when you highlight a disk and press enter you'll be able to select the partition type. After you partition you probably want to back up and change the debconf priority back to low to avoid lots of other questions down the line. |
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| 18:34.39 | Yukikaze | alright thanks scampbell |
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| 18:34.52 | yareckon | normally this is no problem because the right key is in the ~/.ssh/authorized_keys |
| 18:34.56 | yareckon | and no other key is there |
| 18:34.57 | Rackmount | CheckDavid: it doesn't seem to work with 64-bit Windows 7 Professional. I'd advise against using it. |
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| 18:35.18 | scampbell | Yukikaze: reminder, if you are making a boot disk GPT don't forget to create a 1mb bios partition first. |
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| 18:35.32 | CheckDavid | thanks for the suggestion Rackmount |
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| 18:36.01 | yareckon | but occasionally, I address a host by another name and want a different key used, in case I ssh further for instance |
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| 18:36.19 | yareckon | is there a way to avoid having ssh client offer all my keys out? |
| 18:36.20 | Yukikaze | scampbell: alright (this is an efi bios) |
| 18:36.31 | reavengrey | EFI firmware |
| 18:36.34 | reavengrey | or BIOS firmware |
| 18:36.42 | yareckon | and just use the right one configured for that host in ~/.ssh/config ? |
| 18:36.48 | reavengrey | A single firmware can expose either or both interfaces |
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| 18:37.13 | reavengrey | As in, EFI BIOS is a misnomer |
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| 18:37.45 | Rackmount | BIOS is ROM, not firmware. |
| 18:37.47 | mumpitze1 | where would you find any EFI except itanium? |
| 18:37.53 | reavengrey | BIOS is an interface |
| 18:37.59 | phewl | ::o |
| 18:38.01 | reavengrey | To firmware, much like EFI, OFW, etc |
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| 18:38.21 | Yukikaze | I'm just trying to install debian on with an efi bios for the learning experience (I could select bios) |
| 18:38.43 | Probeus | Ok. I had to reinstall lighttpd for reasons unknown. And in the progress i also deleted the init.d/lighttpd script. Now when i install it again, the init.d script is not reinstalled. What am i doing wrong? |
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| 18:38.54 | Firetail | the only solution i found its to install things manual |
| 18:39.02 | scampbell | Yukikaze: you should write that up and post the experience someplace :) |
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| 18:40.23 | richard_stallman | i need some preseed help, I can't seem to preseed wireless network essid, does anyone have a working preseed block for this? |
| 18:40.27 | richard_stallman | that i can maybe use |
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| 18:41.04 | jelly-home | nice nickname there |
| 18:41.23 | richard_stallman | thanks |
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| 18:41.31 | reavengrey | richard_stallman: hello, god |
| 18:41.35 | reavengrey | welcome |
| 18:41.36 | musca | richard_stallman: it's because you refuse non-free firmware. |
| 18:41.50 | teraflops | lol |
| 18:41.53 | richard_stallman | freedom 0 is the freedom to study the source code |
| 18:41.58 | reavengrey | no blasphemy in the channel please, musca |
| 18:42.04 | Probeus | ok, found it out. purge is the way to go. not rm. |
| 18:42.24 | scampbell | richard_stallman: I don't have the preseed but, if you do an install with wireless you might be able to look up the preseeds in /var/log/installer/cdebconf/* after the install. hopefully helpful. |
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| 18:42.43 | richard_stallman | yeah, i did that, it doesn't appear helpful |
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| 18:42.49 | richard_stallman | i can highlight the network name, but not select it |
| 18:43.02 | richard_stallman | that's why i want to compare a working preseed block someone may have |
| 18:43.06 | richard_stallman | because it looks like a preseed bug |
| 18:43.10 | hemlock | can anybody help with a kernel panic? |
| 18:43.21 | richard_stallman | i've tried almost every combination of preseed options i can think of |
| 18:43.42 | scampbell | richard_stallman: and you tried the obvious: netcfg netcfg/wireless_essid whatever ? |
| 18:43.49 | richard_stallman | yes |
| 18:44.04 | richard_stallman | as well as wireless_essid_again |
| 18:44.15 | richard_stallman | and wireless_show_essids |
| 18:44.27 | richard_stallman | nothing allows you to select the network |
| 18:44.29 | scampbell | preseeding from kernel invoke or disk image? |
| 18:44.30 | richard_stallman | so i have to manually hit enter |
| 18:44.41 | richard_stallman | disk image |
| 18:44.58 | peterS | mumpitze1: EFI was first adopted on itanium platforms but since then Apple adopted it for their Intel-chipset Macs, and now many consumer hardware vendors are using it. |
| 18:44.59 | richard_stallman | neither should affect netcfg |
| 18:45.09 | scampbell | just wondering if that's one of the ones you have to do from the kernel invoke. Don't know that, just speculating. |
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| 18:46.02 | richard_stallman | preseed netcfg/wireless* at the kernel makes no sense unfortunately |
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| 18:47.02 | linu | hello richard_stallman |
| 18:47.05 | linu | pleased to meet you |
| 18:47.18 | scampbell | and it's not prefilling or selecting it for you (ie, it's not just the seen flag we need to toggle). |
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| 18:47.42 | mumpitze1 | peterS: no consumer hardware uses EFI.they use UEFI, which is based on EFI but not the same. not totally sure how much EFI apple uses. they always go their own way |
| 18:47.50 | scampbell | is looking at custom iso he did last year for clues. |
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| 18:48.07 | linu | richard_stallman: you might be interested to know i was testing out ubuntu and it has a geoclue-ubuntu-geoip program that was connecting out to ubuntu servers without my knowledge too |
| 18:48.07 | peterS | mumpitze1: ah that's a distinction I wasn't making. You're right though that EFI was originally associated mostly with Itanium |
| 18:48.21 | linu | as well as the search panel spyware |
| 18:48.23 | richard_stallman | scambell: I'm able to highlight it, but not actually select it |
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| 18:48.34 | peterS | mumpitze1: even at the time I was disappointed that the world didn't just move to OF and be done with it |
| 18:48.50 | peterS | mumpitze1: maybe there were good reasons for intel to reinvent that wheel but I always thought OF would have been a nicer future |
| 18:48.57 | mumpitze1 | peterS: for example itanium EFI had no CSM, but now it's sorta mandatory for obvious backwards compatibility to BIOS |
| 18:49.20 | hemlock | http://i.imgur.com/5tKKBB0.jpg this is the panic error I get |
| 18:49.24 | mumpitze1 | NIH maybe. I don't get why apple didn't use OF |
| 18:49.29 | mniip | what packages to i need to "host" a network over ethernet |
| 18:49.32 | mumpitze1 | rather: continued to use OF |
| 18:49.42 | scampbell | ah, I wonder if you just need .netcfg netcfg/wireless_essid seen true |
| 18:49.43 | mumpitze1 | mniip: what do you mean with "host"? |
| 18:49.48 | peterS | mumpitze1: yeah the bizarre thing is that they _did_ use OF, then stopped |
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| 18:50.01 | mniip | mumpitze1, any ethernet card can act as a "server", right? |
| 18:50.04 | mumpitze1 | peterS: maybe it was a price to pay for cheap intel cpus? |
| 18:50.12 | mumpitze1 | mniip: yes. |
| 18:50.27 | peterS | heh... maybe. But with Apple, Sun and IBM (on RS/6000) all using OF, I had such hopes for it.. |
| 18:50.31 | mniip | i have an ethernet cable between 2 computers, so, what do i need to make one computer be the "server" |
| 18:50.53 | mumpitze1 | mniip: run server software |
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| 18:51.01 | scampbell | richard_stallman: same thing happens when I preseed an mirror/http/proxy... I have to set seen to true so it actually accepts its rather than just prefilling. |
| 18:51.03 | mniip | mumpitze1, exactly, which packages are that |
| 18:51.05 | mumpitze1 | mniip: what do you want to serve? |
| 18:51.16 | mniip | mumpitze1, network... |
| 18:51.24 | mumpitze1 | you cannot "serve network". try again |
| 18:51.30 | mniip | uh |
| 18:51.33 | peterS | yeah there's no real distinction between 'server' and 'client' on Ethernet, it's all peer-to-peer. unlike e.g. some ancient mainframe network tech |
| 18:51.35 | mniip | what does a router do |
| 18:51.37 | richard_stallman | scambell: what is seen true? |
| 18:51.41 | mniip | how do you call it |
| 18:51.43 | mumpitze1 | mniip: it routes :P |
| 18:51.56 | peterS | mniip: sounds like you don't really know what you want. we can't easily help you get what you want if you aren't sure what you want |
| 18:52.05 | mumpitze1 | mniip: does your router need to do NAT? |
| 18:52.14 | mniip | i want one computer to be the router |
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| 18:52.24 | mniip | mumpitze1, i guess that's what it's called |
| 18:52.46 | mumpitze1 | !tell mniip about NAT |
| 18:52.57 | scampbell | richarad_stallman: netcfg ..essid whatever followed by another line with netcfg ...essid seen true. That tells debconf the user has 'seen' that question and to accept the answer. In some cases they presume false even with a preseed (http proxy being an example). |
| 18:52.58 | mumpitze1 | mniip: and for the rest, (DNS, dhcp, etc) you can use dnsmasq if you want |
| 18:53.45 | mniip | oh, so, it's as simple as iptables |
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| 18:54.20 | mumpitze1 | and ip forwarding |
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| 18:56.05 | richard_stallman | scambell: trying that now |
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| 18:56.56 | richard_stallman | scambell: doesn't work |
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| 18:57.29 | scampbell | hmm, stumped. |
| 18:57.32 | mniip | mumpitze1, the linked guide seems to be extremely old |
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| 18:57.45 | mumpitze1 | it is :( |
| 18:57.46 | richard_stallman | scambell: actually i think it wants seen true for wireless_show_essids |
| 18:57.49 | mniip | i don't even /etc/rc.d |
| 18:57.51 | richard_stallman | ill try that |
| 18:57.56 | mmendes | hi, I'm trying to launch some scripts from my $HOME/bin (which is in my path), but Everything Launcher doesn't find them, anyone who use e17 know how to make it work? :) |
| 18:57.58 | richard_stallman | that's what it says on debug on term 4 |
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| 18:58.14 | mumpitze1 | mniip: for an easy way, get ipmasq from an old debian archive (lenny or etc). it still works fine :) |
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| 18:59.22 | xingu | peterS: chromeOS uses coreboot fyi. :) |
| 18:59.55 | peterS | xingu: heh, nice. wasn't sure anyone outside HPC was using it in real production |
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| 19:00.21 | peterS | but I guess if you have a platform as closed and limited as chromebook you get to do that sort of thing |
| 19:00.56 | xingu | peterS: it also helps if the founder and current maintainer work for the company concerned. :) |
| 19:01.12 | nosuid | Any suggestions for dealing with remote boxes which autoload luks volumes @ boot? I'll have to ssh in and unlock the volumes, but it hangs way before sshd starts :) |
| 19:01.12 | peterS | indeed (: |
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| 19:02.19 | peterS | nosuid: if you have a situation where you have to type a passphrase at a physical console, I suggest either IPMI or a serial console with some sort of serial port server |
| 19:02.35 | nosuid | Its a vm |
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| 19:03.10 | peterS | nosuid: oh in that case you can probably get a console either via VNC or (virtual) serial |
| 19:03.15 | peterS | from the host |
| 19:03.32 | peterS | exactly how to do it depends on your v12n platform |
| 19:03.35 | xingu | and hope that the VM operator isn't smart enough to know how to keylog. :) |
| 19:03.50 | nosuid | Sure, I just like to have the management interface disconnected unless required |
| 19:04.10 | xingu | nosuid: what's the objective in encrypting the filesystem? |
| 19:04.40 | nosuid | How about http://blog.neutrino.es/2011/unlocking-a-luks-encrypted-root-partition-remotely-via-ssh/ |
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| 19:05.22 | peterS | xingu: well I was assuming he _is_ the VM operator, I mean, otherwise you probably don't get access to those tools in the first place |
| 19:05.22 | peterS | though thinking about it, in that case one wonders why bother with encrypting the guest fs image |
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| 19:06.00 | nosuid | peterS: Raw device mapping on the data drives. Its a file server |
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| 19:07.29 | xingu | heh, learn something new, debian dropbear/busybox autoembeds itself in initramfs? :) |
| 19:07.31 | xingu | neat. |
| 19:08.04 | *** join/#debian HisaoNakai (~HisaoNaka@unaffiliated/contrapunctus) |
| 19:08.13 | *** join/#debian LordShiva (~shiva@gateway/tor-sasl/lordshiva) |
| 19:08.46 | *** join/#debian msn (~msn@50.21.175.33) |
| 19:09.08 | jelly-home | well that busybox in initramfs had to come from somewhere |
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| 19:09.27 | msn | after i install saslauthd/slapd/kerberos rsyslogd wont start |
| 19:10.08 | jelly-home | did not know about dropbear tho, that might enable me to boot my home workstation from remote |
| 19:10.36 | msn | this is the second time in succession that rsyslog is crashing for some reason, system boots but it wont start rsyslogd hangs on it generally happens after saslauthd/openldap/kerberos have been setup |
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| 19:13.55 | cae_ | xingu: see /usr/share/doc/cryptsetup/README.initramfs.gz, there is a description about how to ssh into a dropbear sshd (there it's used to enter a cryptsetup key) |
| 19:14.03 | jelly-home | msn: do any of those add extra config in /etc/rsyslog.d/? |
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| 19:15.49 | mniip | mumpitze1, hm, what do i put in the /etc/network/interfaces of the "client" |
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| 19:18.01 | mniip | wut, it doesn't even read /etc/network/interfaces |
| 19:18.51 | mniip | what the... |
| 19:19.06 | mniip | eth0 doesn't even seem to be related to the ethernet cable |
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| 19:20.49 | *** part/#debian Satanic (d46ae131@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.106.225.49) |
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| 19:21.33 | jhutchins | mniip: The dnsmasq howto at tldp.org is a very good guide. |
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| 19:21.48 | jhutchins | mniip: You may be seeing network-manager handling it. |
| 19:21.56 | mniip | i hope it isn't for ancient version of linux? |
| 19:22.13 | jhutchins | mniip: It's current enough. |
| 19:22.36 | jhutchins | Probably doesn't discuss disabling network-manager, but otherwise not that much has changed. |
| 19:22.52 | mniip | 2004 |
| 19:22.54 | mniip | totally recent |
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| 19:25.24 | msn | jelly-home: nope nothing we added |
| 19:26.12 | jhutchins | mniip: Still valid. |
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| 19:27.08 | jhutchins | msn: Check your /var partition/disk |
| 19:27.18 | msn | its got 200GB + space |
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| 19:27.37 | msn | i soldved the problem for now, purged rsyslog and put syslong-ng in its place |
| 19:27.38 | jhutchins | msn: Filesystem, not space. |
| 19:27.41 | msn | started just fine |
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| 19:30.48 | atomdream_ | am i able to shrink my main partition without losing data ? |
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| 19:32.28 | mumpitze1 | atomdream_: if you boot from a livecd, yes |
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| 19:32.40 | mumpitze1 | atomdream_: and you still need to back up first |
| 19:32.56 | atomdream_ | nothing to back up :) |
| 19:32.58 | atomdream_ | ty |
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| 19:36.00 | atomdream_ | mumpitze1, does linux defragment files ? |
| 19:36.08 | atomdream_ | mumpitze1, fragment* ? |
| 19:36.10 | ente | hello |
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| 19:36.21 | ente | is there an Xsession.d script for keychain? |
| 19:36.21 | Yukikaze | atomdream_: depends on the filesystem used |
| 19:36.31 | atomdream_ | Yukikaze, ext4 |
| 19:36.34 | mumpitze1 | atomdream_: marginally |
| 19:36.38 | Yukikaze | ^ |
| 19:36.40 | ente | I remember it being there but I just installed keychain on a wheezy box and it wasn't there |
| 19:36.47 | mumpitze1 | atomdream_: in practice, you don't need to care |
| 19:36.59 | ente | so now I'm confused because I remember that keychain used to autostart, and now I'm wondering whether I'm delusional |
| 19:37.33 | Yukikaze | atomdream_: you'll never really have to worry about defragmenting |
| 19:37.45 | atomdream_ | mumpitze1, if i will shrink a ext4 main partition |
| 19:37.53 | atomdream_ | to make another partition |
| 19:37.56 | jhutchins | ente: Different release? Different distro? |
| 19:38.00 | atomdream_ | will i lose fragmented files? |
| 19:38.04 | mumpitze1 | atomdream_: no |
| 19:38.07 | atomdream_ | k |
| 19:38.17 | atomdream_ | even easyer in linux then |
| 19:38.18 | atomdream_ | :"D |
| 19:38.23 | atomdream_ | windows kinda harder |
| 19:38.27 | ente | jhutchins: no idea, but I think it was debian, although a different release because I tend to avoid derivatives :) |
| 19:38.31 | mumpitze1 | no. works the same in both |
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| 19:38.42 | mcgreg | hi |
| 19:38.42 | atomdream_ | hm |
| 19:38.45 | atomdream_ | ok |
| 19:39.26 | ente | although this is a different machine as well... |
| 19:40.10 | mcgreg | I've installed debian amd64 and now I want to install canon driver (cnijfilter-mp560series-3.20-1-i386-deb) but it tells me wrong arch - forcing it wont help - do I need any special 32bit libs to make it work? |
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| 19:40.48 | jhutchins | mc see where it says "i386" in the package name? |
| 19:40.51 | ChrisH | dpkg tell mcgreg about multiarch |
| 19:40.54 | jhutchins | mcgreg: see where it says "i386" in the package name? |
| 19:42.11 | Rackmount | mcgreg: I'd recommend avoiding installing any 32-bit compat packages. Are you certain they do not have a 64-bit driver? |
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| 19:42.39 | mcgreg | Rackmount: pretty much but I'll recheck just to be sure |
| 19:43.16 | Rackmount | mcgreg: like jhutchins said, look at the filename. They will usually label it accordingly (probably using something like x86-64, or x64, or amd64 instead of i386 |
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| 19:44.56 | sandman | Is there a way to feed standard input into a command on the command line? Such as echo "It works!" | echo $1 |
| 19:45.18 | sandman | I was thinking about a shell script, where you could put $1 for the first argument, or $* for all arguments in the form of a string, etc. |
| 19:45.25 | Rackmount | "We have clearance, Clarence." "Roger, Roger." "What's our vector Victor?" |
| 19:45.43 | schreber | really an "Airplane" reference |
| 19:45.57 | mcgreg | Rackmount: looks like there is no 64 bit version of it. so I have to us the 32bit version |
| 19:46.11 | Rackmount | mcgreg: Is this a new printer, or an older model? |
| 19:47.13 | mcgreg | it was released 4 years ago |
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| 19:47.18 | Rackmount | schreber: Don't know why that particular quote came to mind. :) |
| 19:47.42 | jhutchins | mcgreg: You want either x64 or noarch |
| 19:47.47 | jhutchins | mcgreg: My cannon laser printer worked fine with the drivers from CUPS. |
| 19:47.49 | Rackmount | mcgreg: Wow, and no 64-bit driver? |
| 19:48.19 | schreber | Rackmount, because it's an awesome movie and needs no reason to quote it. |
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| 19:54.50 | xingu | sandman: xargs |
| 19:55.26 | xingu | sandman: usually best results with -0, and appropriately mungenated input. |
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| 20:00.00 | greenix | Hi, what package should i install so that i can view debian in full hd mode ? currently im 800x600 |
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| 20:02.40 | mtn | greenix: most likely video drivers for your card |
| 20:02.58 | greenix | mtn: you know tails live CD ? |
| 20:03.09 | mtn | greenix: nope |
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| 20:06.50 | greenix | mtn: its a debian live CD, i can see my screen as HD mode. they dont really know my gfx card driver which is Gforce very special model. but it sctill works good. they have a generic driver i guess. |
| 20:07.35 | mtn | greenix: sounds like it. would need a better driver to get better screen settings. |
| 20:08.05 | jhutchins | greenix: What most of them have is a full set of drivers and good detection. |
| 20:08.20 | jhutchins | greenix: Would you like help configuring your video? |
| 20:08.43 | linu | right |
| 20:08.47 | linu | so i will buy another computer |
| 20:08.52 | linu | whats a good one for debian ? |
| 20:08.57 | linu | i can buy a desktop or a laptop |
| 20:08.59 | mtn | linu: zareason |
| 20:09.05 | linu | thanks mtn |
| 20:09.20 | jhutchins | linu: Look for stuff that's been out for a while. Look at chipset support. |
| 20:09.43 | jhutchins | I had an Acer One and everything worked except the SD reader. |
| 20:09.57 | linu | jhutchins: so like a zareason or similar manufacturer, that ships debian on it, and is at most a sandy bridge architecture |
| 20:10.00 | linu | that should work good in wheezy |
| 20:10.29 | ompaul | [Sunday 25 August 2013] [18:56:51] <linu> ompaul: ahh so these lenovos r good to look at then ? will have a look |
| 20:10.33 | ompaul | just saying |
| 20:10.59 | linu | yeah i dont like lenovo |
| 20:11.02 | linu | lol |
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| 20:11.03 | linu | but i can check them out again |
| 20:11.07 | linu | i liked them when they where thinkpad |
| 20:11.28 | jelly-home | jhutchins: aspire one? that board had a slightly buggy acpi hotplug support, only detected cards at boot or required obscure kernel module params to work around |
| 20:11.35 | linu | https://zareason.com/shop/Desktops/ shows a haswell 4th generation box lol, not good for wheezy |
| 20:11.37 | cusco | when they were ibm |
| 20:11.43 | greenix | jhutchins: im making a new liveCD which is 800x600 one guy here will use it in his PC/laptop |
| 20:11.48 | linu | yes when they where ibm cusco |
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| 20:11.51 | greenix | i want it to look good when he boots |
| 20:12.15 | cusco | I still haven't found any one to provide real critics about new lenovo stuff |
| 20:12.21 | linu | what about intel vs amd, no difference for wheezy support |
| 20:12.25 | linu | or ati vs nvidia vs intel graphics ? |
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| 20:12.48 | cusco | nvidia vs ati(amd) may differ |
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| 20:13.03 | cusco | main cpu, its the sae |
| 20:13.06 | cusco | same |
| 20:13.25 | jhutchins | My Thinkpad x60s seems to work except for the volume buttons. |
| 20:13.26 | jhutchins | My big, bulletproof Toshiba worked fine. |
| 20:13.26 | jhutchins | There's a whole subculture dedicated to supporting Thinkpads. |
| 20:13.26 | jhutchins | linu: One possibility is to just put up with it for now and see what develops in six months. |
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| 20:13.34 | linu | i like toshiba |
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| 20:14.35 | scampbell | debhelper can be harsh at times. |
| 20:14.42 | linu | lol yeah |
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| 20:14.58 | scampbell | not sure how to unban the poor guy either. :( |
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| 20:16.11 | jhutchins | Did I accidentally paste something? |
| 20:16.17 | xingu | linu: I assume you've already worked your way through https://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee#Installation |
| 20:16.32 | scampbell | jhutchins: nah, it jsut tweeked on 4+ lines of text.. a bit harsh. |
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| 20:17.14 | linu | xingu: yes for about 7 hours :) |
| 20:17.27 | jelly-home | jhutchins: tell yourself about !enter |
| 20:17.48 | linu | xingu: that wiki thing might work better once the nvidia driver in experimental makes it to wheezy-backports, if it does |
| 20:17.59 | abrotman | or tell him about lag .. |
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| 20:18.45 | jhutchins | Yeah, been seeing some lag. So did I appear to dump a lot of lines quickly? It looked like a normal conversation from here. |
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| 20:18.57 | linu | it looked normal here jhutchins |
| 20:19.07 | linu | jhutchins: yeah well i could buy a nice linux laptop right now, another one, and start being productive on it. then in 6 months this one i have already might work good too |
| 20:19.15 | linu | i wont complain about having two |
| 20:19.58 | jhutchins | linu: My newest is a few years old, the Acer One, so I don't know if that's a valid recommendation (besides, it's a netbook). |
| 20:20.22 | linu | jhutchins: yeah i guess it will be hours and hours of research =) lol |
| 20:21.02 | jhutchins | linu: There are databases where people report how Linux went on their laptop. If you can find one you like there that's a good start. |
| 20:22.07 | sandman | xingu: Thanks for your help. Is there a way to do this with environmental variables? Such as n=1; echo "0" | xargs -0 n=$1? Or perhaps echo 1 | set n=$1? |
| 20:22.13 | linu | jhutchins: and systems like zareason, though i doubt their 4th gen haswell system is a good idea for wheezy |
| 20:22.20 | sandman | xingu: I should have mentioned that earlier, sorry. |
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| 20:22.34 | linu | jhutchins: but their one with older hardware could be great! |
| 20:22.51 | mtn | linu: if the zareason box comes with debian on it, it will work fine |
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| 20:23.49 | jalalsfs | I tried to install debian, but the screen goes black because the resolution, how can I change the resolution while installing Debian? |
| 20:23.57 | linu | https://zareason.com/shop/MediaBox-5440.html and https://zareason.com/shop/Limbo-5880.html mtn |
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| 20:24.11 | linu | i seriously doubt a 4th gen haswell is good for a stock wheezy 7.1 install |
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| 20:24.34 | mtn | linu: preinstalled with debian 7, guaranteed to work. don't see a problem. |
| 20:24.34 | linu | it defaults ubuntu but lets you choose debian or about 5 other linuxes |
| 20:24.51 | linu | guaranteed my ass |
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| 20:24.59 | linu | just because a vendor says something, doesnt mean its true |
| 20:25.00 | jhutchins | jalalsfs: Use the text-based installer and prepare to struggle a bit with the video. What chipset? |
| 20:25.14 | mtn | linu: guess you are just trolling now. off topic as well. |
| 20:25.36 | linu | right im trolling when we already established a latest-version hardware isnt the best idea for wheezy |
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| 20:25.56 | thowe | Hi. I just tried to install Debian to my machine at work, and after booting it doesn't recognize the CDROM drive. This is an IDE drive that I have used to install other linux distros from. It also works with OpenBSD. I don't even see the IDE controller being used in the dmesg. It is ITExpress IT8213F (I think). Is there a way to see if this is supported? |
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| 20:26.48 | jalalsfs | jhutchins, I think amd or ati chipset. |
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| 20:27.15 | jelly-home | thowe: which controller are you booting from? |
| 20:27.34 | sandman | Does anyone know how to set an environmental variable based on stdin, aside from using something like this?: n=`someCommand` I was hoping for something like n=1; echo "0" | xargs -0 n=$1, you'd think the EV "n" would be 0 then, instead of 1, you see? |
| 20:27.42 | thowe | jelly, I'm booting from the CDROM drive that is then not recognized. |
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| 20:27.54 | thowe | er jelly-home |
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| 20:28.15 | jelly-home | thowe: oh, in the installer itself |
| 20:28.29 | jhutchins | thowe: Validate the cdrom - make sure it's md5sum and that of the iso match the one from the repo. |
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| 20:28.52 | thowe | jhutchins, already did. I even burned a second one. |
| 20:28.52 | jelly-home | thowe: is this really ide (pata) or sata? |
| 20:29.15 | thowe | It is IDE. The sata controller is recognized fine. |
| 20:30.05 | thowe | I have two devices on the pata. Neither is in the dmesg. Also the IDE controller doesn't appear to be in the dmesg. |
| 20:30.35 | jelly-home | thowe: can you pastebin the output of lspci -nn somehow? |
| 20:31.12 | thowe | jelly-home, um. Maybe. My home machine has the same MB but there is nothing on the IDE controller. Would that work? |
| 20:31.47 | thowe | Or I can boot the CD again and try to save the output somewhere from the boot CD. |
| 20:32.17 | jelly-home | thowe: no. take a picture of the screen with a camera or whatnot |
| 20:32.33 | jelly-home | well you could try to save the output... iff usb-storage works |
| 20:32.36 | thowe | hrm... It it isn't real long I can write it down. |
| 20:33.02 | jelly-home | thowe: I'd try to boot from usb instead, for a start |
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| 20:34.32 | cusco | sandman: I guess you should try #bash , also not sure about xargs -o n=$1, you could try n=$(n=1; echo '0'|xargs -0) |
| 20:34.33 | jelly-home | thowe: it's long alright! |
| 20:34.37 | thowe | Would an identical machine with nothing on the IDE controller help? Or would that output be worthless? |
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| 20:35.40 | thowe | the line from that other machine is 11:04.0 IDE interface [0101]: Integrated Technology Express, Inc. IT8213 IDE Controller [1283:8213] |
| 20:35.46 | thowe | for the ide controller |
| 20:36.14 | thowe | I'll boot to see if it is different for this machine (doubt it). |
| 20:36.39 | thowe | stand by, bbiab. |
| 20:36.51 | jhutchins | thowe: Which release? WHich installer? |
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| 20:37.03 | thowe | 7.1.0 amd64 |
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| 20:38.13 | thowe | debian-7.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 20:38.38 | _br_ | What is the most "standard" way of duplicating a logical volume in LVM? dd? cpio? |
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| 20:39.28 | Stevie-O | thowe, you can boot from the CD but the software on the CD can't seem to detect itself? |
| 20:39.35 | jelly-home | judd: pciid 1283:8213 |
| 20:39.36 | judd | [1283:8213] is 'IT8213 IDE Controller' from 'Integrated Technology Express, Inc.' with kernel module 'pata_it8213' in wheezy. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=1283:8213 |
| 20:39.40 | thowe | Stevie-O, yes |
| 20:39.53 | jelly-home | thowe: did pata_it8213 module not get automatically loaded? |
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| 20:40.20 | thowe | jelly-home, I think not, but I'll search dmesg for that on next boot... |
| 20:40.29 | giuscri | join #bash |
| 20:40.31 | jelly-home | thowe: lsmod command is your friend. |
| 20:40.54 | thowe | jelly-home, does that command need any args? |
| 20:40.58 | jelly-home | no |
| 20:41.03 | thowe | OK, stand by... |
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| 20:44.33 | Guest72054 | debian Jessie with... mate by default? |
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| 20:44.48 | lampclip | I've installed the Catalyst Legacy 13.1 driver on my computer running Debian sid from the repository. After generating the xorg.conf file, my display manager does not load when I start up my computer. How can I get this driver to work properly? |
| 20:45.50 | Yukikaze | lampclip: what ati card do you have |
| 20:46.20 | lampclip | Yukikaze: It's an HD Raedon 4200 series |
| 20:46.45 | Yukikaze | oh sorry you did say legacy |
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| 20:47.06 | Yukikaze | you need an old version of xorg to use the legacy driver |
| 20:47.06 | michal_ | hiho |
| 20:47.28 | Yukikaze | either 1.11 or 1.12 I forget |
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| 20:47.56 | thowe | OK, the lspci -nn gives the same output for that controller. |
| 20:48.12 | thowe | lsmod does not show the pata_it8213 controller. |
| 20:48.19 | thowe | It shows the following: |
| 20:48.30 | Yukikaze | tbh lampclip you'd probably be a lot better off with the open source radeon driver |
| 20:48.53 | lampclip | Yukikaze: I remember reading that there was an issue with the latest version of Xorg not being compatiable, but I thought that was fixed. I'm currently using version 1.12.4. What should I downgrade to? |
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| 20:49.23 | lampclip | Yukikaze: Well actually I just ran some updates and it screwed up my display. There were lines across it everywhere and I couldn't do anything. |
| 20:49.26 | armin | is there a news reader that syncs with feedly.com? |
| 20:49.40 | thowe | thermal, fan, thermal_sys, sq, usbhid, hid, sd_mod, crc_t10dif, paraport_pc, paraport, uhci_hcd, ata_generic, ata_piix, ehci_hcd, libata, scsi_mod, usb_core, usb_common |
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| 20:49.53 | thowe | s/sq/sg/ |
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| 20:50.09 | thowe | can I tell it to load that module? |
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| 20:51.33 | thowe | can I mod_probe pata_it8213? |
| 20:51.59 | Yukikaze | lampclip: it seems 1.12 should work with that version so that's not the problem |
| 20:52.01 | jelly-home | thowe: modprobe, yes |
| 20:52.10 | Yukikaze | sorry about that |
| 20:52.25 | Yukikaze | it's 1.13 and up it doesn't support |
| 20:52.50 | thowe | jelly-home, well, OK. I'll try that. If that soves it, but it still doesn't do it automatically after I am installed, what is the correct way to force it? |
| 20:52.53 | lampclip | No problem. I'm just trying to figure out why it's happening. Back when I was on wheezy I was able to install the fglrx driver and it worked fine, but when I upgraded to sid I started having this issue. |
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| 20:53.37 | Yukikaze | lampclip: well sid _is_ unstable |
| 20:53.46 | Stevie-O | there is no pata_it821x.ko ona Wheezy amd64 netinst CD. There is, however, a pata_it821x.ko |
| 20:54.11 | edju | run testing, and the latest upgrade brought in kmail2. need to migrate the old mail, folder structure etc. would appreciate a pointer to a sxs for the simple-minded. all i've found is a lot of conflicting advice. or better yet, possible to get rid of kmail2 and go back to good old kmail?? |
| 20:54.26 | thowe | Stevie-O, those are the same name |
| 20:54.41 | jelly-home | thowe: add it to /etc/modules, I guess |
| 20:54.56 | Stevie-O | err, right. sorry. There is no pata_it8213, there is pata_it821x, however |
| 20:55.02 | thowe | where are those .ko files in the directory structure? |
| 20:55.16 | Stevie-O | lib/modules/3.2.0-4-amd64/kernel/drivers/ata/pata_it821x.ko |
| 20:55.27 | thowe | OK, I'll give that a try.... |
| 20:55.36 | thowe | If you don't see me for a bit it probably worked... |
| 20:55.49 | Stevie-O | I expect 'modprobe pata_it8213' should do the trick |
| 20:56.15 | Stevie-O | err |
| 20:56.17 | Stevie-O | gah |
| 20:56.19 | jelly-home | Stevie-O: these do not drive the same hardware |
| 20:56.20 | Stevie-O | modprobe pata_it821x |
| 20:56.27 | Stevie-O | they don't? |
| 20:56.31 | jhutchins | kmail2 is not compatible with a standard maildir or mbox setup? |
| 20:56.40 | jelly-home | Stevie-O: look at modinfo outputs and pci-ids they work with |
| 20:56.41 | Stevie-O | there is no pata_it8213.ko in the Wheezy netinst CD |
| 20:56.49 | jelly-home | Stevie-O: then that's the bug. |
| 20:56.50 | jhutchins | edju: kmail2 is not compatible with a standard maildir or mbox setup? |
| 20:57.08 | Stevie-O | it would be in the initramfs image, right? That's where I'm looking |
| 20:57.18 | Stevie-O | zcat /mnt/iso/install.amd/initrd.gz| cpio -t | sort | less -MS |
| 20:57.39 | edju | jhutchins, dunno - saw talk of a mysql database. |
| 20:57.56 | jelly-home | Stevie-O: yes, it would not be useful if it were elsewhere, because it's needed to access the cdrom / iso |
| 20:58.18 | edju | jhutchins, and talk of akonadi stuff - never really understood akodi. |
| 20:59.05 | Stevie-O | does the netinst cd simply run from the initramfs, without ever doing a pivot_root ? |
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| 21:00.37 | Stevie-O | if so, and if the initramfs image has e.g. USB drivers, you could probably construct a .udeb with the right .ko file, could you not? |
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| 21:01.25 | Stevie-O | something like: mount /dev/usbdev /mnt/whatever; dpkg -i /mnt/whatever/my-driver.udeb |
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| 21:03.56 | codepython7771 | whats the best way to install a debian box for a user so that it upgrades itself - and i dont need to touch it - for years? |
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| 21:05.59 | thowe | well, loading pata_it821x didn't do the trick. |
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| 21:06.28 | thowe | lsmod showed it was used by 0 after I ran modprobe, and the CDROM was still not detected. |
| 21:06.55 | cusco | codepython7771: there isn't any best practice on self upgrading without human intervention ever |
| 21:07.17 | linu | so i GOT the optimus working under ubuntu 3.10 |
| 21:07.21 | linu | which means i can now try to get it working under mint |
| 21:07.24 | linu | then try debian |
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| 21:08.28 | thowe | My home machine shows pata_8213 is used, so I may be fine after install if I install with USB or somesuch. |
| 21:09.04 | thowe | maybe... |
| 21:09.10 | thowe | I wanna check another thing. |
| 21:09.11 | codepython7771 | So there is no way i can hope to run a debian box for a few years without touching it manually? |
| 21:09.46 | armin | mh, running debian testing on a thinkpax x220 and just got a kernel panic. :) |
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| 21:10.41 | jelly-home | thowe: tried using a weekly/daily debian-installer snapshot image? |
| 21:10.45 | armin | codepython7771: without updating that indeed could work. |
| 21:10.56 | armin | codepython7771: question remains if you want that. |
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| 21:12.05 | codepython7771 | armin: CAnt I let it automatically update? |
| 21:13.19 | armin | codepython7771: you could try that, but i'd keep my fingers crossed in that case because you would have to make wild assumptions about some questions where choosing a default value will simply fail. the machine can't predict your own human decisions in some cases for obvious reasons. |
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| 21:13.57 | codepython7771 | armin: Can I manually update one machine, and allow the same actions be taken for all other other machines? |
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| 21:14.32 | armin | codepython7771: you could try that. |
| 21:14.59 | armin | codepython7771: but to put it short: don't do it. |
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| 21:15.24 | codepython7771 | armin: i've a lot of machines, cant upgrade each one manually |
| 21:15.35 | goodboy | /msg |
| 21:15.51 | armin | codepython7771: what's "a lot"? |
| 21:16.08 | codepython7771 | right now 75 , and growing |
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| 21:16.56 | armin | codepython7771: you can try cron-apt. |
| 21:17.19 | armin | codepython7771: see 9.5: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-uptodate.en.html |
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| 21:19.00 | mesodermz | I have a Lexmark Optra E312 printer that I have installed the drivers for, and which I have added as the default printer in CUPS, but when I try to print nothing happens other than the error light on the printer briefly flashing |
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| 21:19.16 | mesodermz | CUPS seems to think that printing was successful each time though |
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| 21:19.36 | codepython7771 | armin: perhaps someone maintains such a box that i could just clone and use? |
| 21:19.37 | mesodermz | The printer works fine when tested on a windows computer, so I'm sure it's not a problem with the printer itself |
| 21:19.41 | doppelnull | mesodermz: does it work with windows? just making sure... |
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| 21:20.10 | armin | codepython7771: o.O |
| 21:20.13 | thowe | So, yeah. The pata_it821x and the pata_it8213 support different devices. So the pata_it8213 is what I need and it is not included in that CD. |
| 21:20.19 | mesodermz | doppelnull: yes, I've tested it with windows and it works fine |
| 21:20.41 | thowe | I'm not sure how to get around that, so I will try to install from USB CDROM drive. |
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| 21:20.49 | doppelnull | mesodermz: does CUPS have logs? |
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| 21:21.26 | LtL | doppelnull: yes /var/log/cups/ |
| 21:21.39 | doppelnull | althoug... if it thinks it's sucessfull.... |
| 21:21.40 | mesodermz | doppelnull: Yes, but they are not showing any errors related to failed print jobs |
| 21:21.45 | doppelnull | LtL: thx |
| 21:21.46 | codepython7771 | armin: ? :) |
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| 21:22.50 | doppelnull | mesodermz: can you make anything from the lexmark error codes? |
| 21:23.05 | mesodermz | doppelnull: the only error in /var/log/cups/error_log is "failed to CreateDevice: org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id 'cups-Lexmark_Lexmark_Optra_E312L' already exist" |
| 21:23.21 | doppelnull | mesodermz: other than that - try to use more generic drivers, if possible. or drivers of a "chepaer" model |
| 21:23.30 | mesodermz | doppelnull: the printer does not have a display that shows error codes. Is there a place I can access these error codes? |
| 21:23.42 | doppelnull | mesodermz: hadnbook? |
| 21:24.20 | mesodermz | doppelnull: The driver I am using is the recommended driver (and happens to be one from the manufacturer) ... I have heard of no alternative that will work with this printer. Do you know of one? |
| 21:24.22 | doppelnull | *handbook |
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| 21:25.08 | doppelnull | mesodermz: no - but it happended to me once that i had to choose a non recommended driver from a "dumber" model... was an HP printer |
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| 21:25.47 | mesodermz | I have a Lexmark Optra E312 printer that I have installed the drivers for, and which I have added as the default printer in CUPS, but when I try to print nothing happens other than the error light on the printer briefly flashing. The CUPS error log isn't showing any errors either. Where to go from here? |
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| 21:26.38 | neorpheus | hey thee guys, just wondering if anyone knows a way to check hard drive s.m.a.r.t. status from bash |
| 21:26.46 | neorpheus | there* |
| 21:27.14 | mesodermz | neorpheus: hdparm |
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| 21:28.43 | linu | atheros is the best wifi chip for debian yeah ? |
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| 21:32.49 | doppelnull | linu: oh, hi... how did the graphics stuff work out for you? |
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| 21:33.38 | linux-ninja | Having an issue where I mount a remote NFs filesystem and the soft link are not longer working, any clues? |
| 21:33.40 | neorpheus | when i try "hdparm -i /dev/sda1" i get "HDIO_GET_IDENTITY failed: Invalid argument" |
| 21:33.54 | linu | doppelnull: the nvidia graphics accelerating _everything_ is working in ubuntu 3.10 |
| 21:34.21 | linu | doppelnull: so maybe it will work in mint too |
| 21:34.27 | LtL | neorpheus: try /dev/sda |
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| 21:34.30 | linu | doppelnull: and then maybe i can get it working in wheezy too |
| 21:34.34 | doppelnull | linu: woohoo! |
| 21:34.49 | linu | doppelnull: woo hoo yes!! sucess!! except theres no way im going to use ubuntu lol |
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| 21:35.15 | doppelnull | linu: but i think it's a fair guess to sai there is a good chance in debian if ubuntu works |
| 21:35.35 | linu | true yeah |
| 21:35.45 | linu | since it works in ubuntu theres a good chance in debian too |
| 21:36.00 | jelly-home | neorpheus: smartctl -a /dev/sda | less |
| 21:36.00 | linu | but i think it might be hard upgrading the Xorg stack in wheezy |
| 21:36.04 | jhutchins | linu: Have a good look at what drivers it's using. |
| 21:36.09 | neorpheus | lemme try it |
| 21:36.10 | linu | the kernel upgrade was easy in wheezy |
| 21:36.46 | jelly-home | neorpheus: or this (gratis, but closed source) smart client: http://www.hdsentinel.com/hard_disk_sentinel_linux.php |
| 21:37.02 | neorpheus | it just opened vi |
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| 21:37.29 | neorpheus | and i dont know how to get out lol |
| 21:37.31 | linu | jhutchins: well it used Xorg 1.14.2.901 (1.14.3 RC 1). XrandR client 1.4 and server 1.4 support. Kernel 3.11.0-3-generic. and NVIDIA 319.32 drivers |
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| 21:37.44 | linu | so the 319.32 drivers are iirc in debian experimental atm |
| 21:37.51 | jelly-home | neorpheus: <esc>:q!<enter> |
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| 21:38.42 | linu | the wheezy-backport kernel should be fine too |
| 21:38.57 | linu | i think X version isnt the right one though |
| 21:38.57 | KjetilK | is there some tool that allow me to resize an encrypted partition without resizing every layer of the whole onion, like described in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ResizeEncryptedPartitions? (it is a Debian box) |
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| 21:39.40 | linu | i can install new kernel from wheezy-backports easy, 319 driver from nvidia.com easy |
| 21:39.42 | jelly-home | KjetilK: no |
| 21:39.45 | linu | but hmm might be tricky upgrading X |
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| 21:40.43 | KjetilK | jelly-home, ok, then I just got to roll up my sleeves, I suppose :-) |
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| 21:40.45 | linu | and trick to compile wifi chip driver |
| 21:40.52 | doppelnull | linu: in case you cant get it to work with debian - if you do a ubuntu minimal and take care of what you install you're "pretty close" to debian |
| 21:41.04 | linu | doppelnull: true i hate ubuntu though |
| 21:41.15 | doppelnull | linu: why? |
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| 21:41.24 | linu | doppelnull: because richard stallman told me it sucks |
| 21:41.25 | ironhalik | hmm, what should I understand by dmesg line 'ata1: dummy'? It means ATA port is empty, or is it some sort of a dummy out, because of the controller or something? |
| 21:41.30 | linu | and richard stallman is always right |
| 21:41.30 | jelly-home | KjetilK: it's not _that_ much; partition, (reboot), luks, pv, lv, fs ;-) |
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| 21:42.04 | KjetilK | hehe, yeah |
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| 21:43.34 | doppelnull | linu: well, i'm sure stallman never had to mess with your laptop :P |
| 21:43.43 | linu | doppelnull: mint might be all right though |
| 21:43.51 | linu | i think stallman would have smashed my laptop by now |
| 21:43.59 | doppelnull | linu: mint is worse than ubuntu, btw |
| 21:44.06 | linu | how come mint is worse than ubuntu ? |
| 21:44.28 | tgs3 | is it? |
| 21:44.42 | doppelnull | they add even more restricted software by default than ubuntu |
| 21:45.04 | linu | flash is installed in both |
| 21:45.07 | Mike9863 | I just ran some updates on my system (sid) and it messed with my display. My old, very basic xorg.conf (http://pastebin.com/sgMn569Q) no longer works and results in lines across my screen and complete distortion. I removed that xorg and now my display is usable, but there are some issues. It's not detected my external monitor and the cursor randomly blinks at times. Can anyone help? |
| 21:45.09 | linu | mint uses openjdk i think |
| 21:45.12 | linu | all i can think of is flash |
| 21:45.16 | linu | which is also in ubuntu |
| 21:45.24 | linu | i can always uninstall flash and install gnash |
| 21:45.32 | doppelnull | linu: true |
| 21:45.43 | doppelnull | so that counts for both :P |
| 21:45.47 | linu | lol |
| 21:46.11 | linu | ubuntu comes shipped with malware |
| 21:46.12 | doppelnull | linu: do yourself a favour - if it works in ubuntu use it - go for a minimal install and add what you need - so you avoid all the bloat and sneaky stuff |
| 21:46.19 | urandom_ | Speaking of RMS, etc.: I read a while back that the new leader of the Debian Project said he was considering working toward getting Debian FSF-approved |
| 21:46.31 | linu | i see ubuntu having a geo-ip tracer making secret connections in the background via netstat -nap |
| 21:46.46 | linu | and if i apt-get install it canonical configured it in a way to force uninstalling half of the ubuntu desktop as well |
| 21:46.55 | linu | purely a malicious move |
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| 21:47.20 | doppelnull | for netstat? |
| 21:47.48 | linu | netstat shows ubuntu ships with malware |
| 21:48.25 | linu | ubuntu reminds me of windows |
| 21:48.25 | linu | lol |
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| 21:49.07 | urandom_ | One hardly has toe be an FSF-level purist/fanatic to be less-than-comfortable w/ Cannonical |
| 21:49.11 | doebi | remember me having issues with executing a binary? |
| 21:49.21 | linu | urandom_, indeed, you can be a fairly average person |
| 21:49.21 | doebi | i now have the same issue with another binary |
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| 21:49.27 | zykotick9 | urandom_: actually, i believe that was the previous-DPL? you can see his talk online from last years LibrePlanet for more details. |
| 21:49.50 | doebi | somehow i cant execute some binaries in my Downloads folder |
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| 21:50.08 | linu | i think debian is FSF compliant if i omit non-free from the repo |
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| 21:50.22 | linu | no non-free in the apt sources |
| 21:50.50 | zykotick9 | linu: FSF uses a lot of debian in there server room, it's just not approved for others to use. "do as i say, not as i do". </OT> |
| 21:50.53 | urandom_ | linu: replying to something I said circa 12-14 hours ago? |
| 21:50.58 | linu | lol zykotick9 |
| 21:51.15 | linu | urandom_: what did i reply to about 7 hours ago ? |
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| 21:54.02 | urandom_ | linu: This is a busy place. I have no recollection of any dialogue b/w us earlier and I don't think I have the log to check. |
| 21:54.14 | linu | yeah it is pretty busy |
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| 21:54.25 | linu | i could always install wheezy, and i guess not use the inbuilt nvidia |
| 21:54.32 | linu | just use the intel |
| 21:54.39 | linu | maybe support comes later maybe it doesnt |
| 21:54.43 | urandom_ | linu: I do recall replying to someone that I'm not necessarily that average |
| 21:55.16 | urandom_ | linu: and if you recall anything I said about my hardware (old), you'd have to agree |
| 21:55.19 | zykotick9 | linu: nouveau in wheezy is "not bad", 3d support OOTB (something i could personally never get working with squeeze) |
| 21:55.41 | linu | zykotick9: yeah nouveau spit out a msg about not supporting my GT735M hardware (its very new) |
| 21:55.41 | Dwarf | linu: If it's nvidia optimus why not use bumblebee? |
| 21:55.49 | Dwarf | Oh |
| 21:55.58 | linu | Dwarf: because the lack of driver support in the wheezy packages |
| 21:56.11 | linu | though theres a driver in experimental |
| 21:56.12 | Dwarf | Is it in SID? |
| 21:56.17 | linu | i couldnt get it to backport properly |
| 21:56.23 | linu | weird dependancy issues |
| 21:56.31 | urandom_ | but let's not get off on a tangent about /me/ |
| 21:56.33 | linu | nah not in sid |
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| 21:56.36 | linu | in experimental |
| 21:56.41 | Dwarf | Dang |
| 21:56.47 | linu | yeah |
| 21:56.53 | Dwarf | I personally don't really use experimental cause y'know, experimental |
| 21:56.54 | linu | but being in experimental it might show up in sid one day |
| 21:56.58 | linu | true lol |
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| 21:57.10 | linu | who knows it might even move from experimental to wheezy-backports one day in the future i dunno |
| 21:57.21 | Dwarf | Let's hope so |
| 21:57.25 | jelly-home | linu: Re: fsf' definitions of free software and debian, you might like to watch http://media.libreplanet.org/u/libby/m/stefano-zacchiroli/ |
| 21:57.34 | linu | yeah i hope so i think bumblebee migh work with it then |
| 21:57.43 | linu | does bumblebee require a hardware mux to work ? |
| 21:58.04 | linu | im abit confused about bumblee working without a hardware mux, its supposed to be impossible (i dont have a hardware mux) |
| 21:58.06 | Dwarf | I don't know, I just install the intel driver and bumblebee and it works |
| 21:58.10 | urandom_ | zykotick9: I hadn't realized there had been a "changing of the guard" since then |
| 21:58.11 | linu | interesting |
| 21:59.00 | linu | i can disable the nvidia card in the bios |
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| 21:59.33 | linu | i did want to play the occasional FPS game |
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| 22:01.06 | keyzs | on http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.1.0/amd64/bt-cd/ wich of these should i install debian-7.1.0-amd64-CD-1.iso.torrent or debian-update-7.1.0-amd64-CD-1.iso.torrent to get debian more uptodate? |
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| 22:02.32 | urandom_ | Whoever said Ubuntu ships w/ malware: Did you mean the infamous privacy breach wherein /local/ search queries were automatically sent to Amazon.com by default? |
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| 22:02.52 | urandom_ | Or something more? |
| 22:03.21 | zykotick9 | keyzs: what debian-update-* are, is a mystery to me. but they are NOT, regular install images! you DON'T want that, if you are fresh installing debian. |
| 22:03.42 | Dwarf | Why not get a netinstall? |
| 22:03.49 | jelly-home | urandom_: it's not really topical in here, tho, so ask for a private response or one in #debian-offtopic |
| 22:03.56 | keyzs | what are those updates? |
| 22:04.30 | Mike9863 | I just ran some updates on my system (sid) and it messed with my display. My old, very basic xorg.conf (http://pastebin.com/sgMn569Q) no longer works and results in lines across my screen and complete distortion. I removed that xorg and now my display is usable, but there are some issues. It's not detected my external monitor and the cursor randomly blinks at times. Can anyone help? |
| 22:04.53 | urandom_ | jelly-home: What about asking the user in question privately? |
| 22:05.07 | linu | urandom_: well i observed another malware besides that |
| 22:05.21 | linu | using a geoip tracking software secretly in the background |
| 22:05.51 | linu | then apt-get uninstalling it automatically uninstalled half the gui too, which is not necessary, but purely a windows like malicious feature, tying them together unnecessarily like that |
| 22:06.16 | linu | basically canonical must have done that on purpose to make it inconvinient/difficult to uninstall |
| 22:06.24 | linu | that reminds me of windows |
| 22:06.24 | jelly-home | urandom_: sure |
| 22:06.53 | jelly-home | linu: but really, move that conversation to #debian-offtopic |
| 22:07.09 | babilen | zykotick9: http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#update-cd |
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| 22:07.13 | urandom_ | jelly-home: thanks but linu... |
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| 22:07.45 | linu | my firewall caught windows secretly calling home whenever i used windows search too lol |
| 22:07.52 | babilen | zykotick9: I have them down as "never need those" ;) |
| 22:07.56 | zykotick9 | babilen: thanks. i had assumed as much, but nice to see it in print. |
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| 22:10.41 | ironhalik | can I boot debian netinstall cd with additional kernel parameters? |
| 22:12.03 | ironhalik | ok, nvm, got it |
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| 22:21.38 | thaicares | I want to create a live usb but from a windows system and I believe most instructions on how to do it is from a linux system... |
| 22:22.03 | ironhalik | thaicares: unetbootin |
| 22:22.05 | thaicares | I want to get it to work so I can get off the current windows system and instead use linux on this computer |
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| 22:22.13 | thaicares | ironhalik: thank you! |
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| 22:24.41 | aquaticape | Hello. I'm using debmirror to create a local repository and I'm just wondering what trace files actually are. My google-fu is failing me. |
| 22:25.04 | aquaticape | Are they actually required if I just want to have a local repo to install debs from? |
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| 22:26.04 | edju | running testing and picked up kmail2 today. possible to delete kmai2 and install kmail from the wheezy package, or are there incompatible libs? |
| 22:27.25 | Th0masR0ss | edju: try #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
| 22:27.29 | Th0masR0ss | !debian-next |
| 22:27.29 | dpkg | #debian-next is a channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net). |
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| 22:29.12 | mrdeb | hi |
| 22:29.29 | mrdeb | does anyone know how to configure amd radeon driver after legacy driver is working |
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| 22:29.34 | mrdeb | does it have utility or what |
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| 22:50.43 | linu | ok this steam gaming is actually quite impressive |
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| 23:03.09 | keyzs | oi |
| 23:03.42 | linu | do people backport nvidia drivers in experimental much? |
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| 23:03.55 | linu | i.e. the 319 nvidia drivers in experimental, to wheezy-backports ? |
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| 23:04.43 | urandom_ | Breaking: startpage.com appears to be down |
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| 23:08.26 | urandom_ | scratch that, something's wrong on my end, can't seem to access /any/ https sites |
| 23:08.29 | urandom_ | sorry |
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| 23:17.21 | nutron | is /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf now deprecated? The wiki shows an etch howto and some broken english about not using it... |
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| 23:20.13 | nutron | Workstation deployment where I want to blacklist usb-storage and some useless wireless card built in... |
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| 23:23.51 | Serpiente | can anyone suggest a malware/ virus scanner for a linux host? something similar to rkhunter but for actual web projects that could have been exploitedß |
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| 23:27.06 | Vicissitude | maybe nessus. might be more than you want/need though |
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| 23:50.02 | ragnul | what should I do about dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.17-92_amd64.deb (--unpack): subprocess new pre-installation script was killed by signal (Segmentation fault)? |
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| 23:52.06 | abrotman | pastebin the full error |
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