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| 00:01.44 | tarkaram | Hello, just wanted to if there is a program that takes in gps data (Latitude and longitude information) and plots it on a map. The GPS information is collected over a period of time and the data is in a txt file |
| 00:02.41 | zagabar | recently when i did apt-get dist-upgrade in debian sid, it updated by nouveau deisplay drivers and ever since i get an error from openGL applications using glew |
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| 00:02.56 | zagabar | saying "Missing GL Version" wheneve glewInit() is called |
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| 00:03.13 | zagabar | anyone knows how i'd go about solving such? or where to get help? |
| 00:03.26 | ahutton | how can I recover from a bad suspend? I can mount the disk from another machine, what can I do so that it will boot nromally, without trying to recover from the suspend? |
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| 00:17.50 | dondelelcaro | tarkaram: there are a few programs that can take that data and do that; GIS stuff does it pretty often |
| 00:18.06 | dondelelcaro | tarkaram: if you just want it for casual purposes, see various open street map related tools |
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| 00:20.01 | darsie | How do I switch from 32bit debian to 64 bit debian? |
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| 00:25.34 | tarkaram | dondelelcaro: thanks |
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| 00:30.57 | dondelelcaro | darsie: http://blog.zugschlus.de/archives/972-How-to-amd64-an-i386-Debian-installation-with-multiarch.html |
| 00:31.45 | themill | tarkaram: tools like viking, foxtrot, qlandkarte are in debian and can do that sort of thing. You might need to change your text file into something that they can consume though -- you can turn it into gpx with a little sed or perl. |
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| 00:33.30 | darsie | dondelelcaro: thx |
| 00:33.38 | dondelelcaro | darsie: np |
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| 00:44.01 | kruug | I'm setting up a new Debian Stable install, but all of the sources.list examples I can find refer to Wheezy and not Stable. Is there a place I seem to be missing? Or, would it be possible for someone to pastebin a default Stable list? |
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| 00:44.17 | dark_node | Wheezy is stable sir. |
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| 00:46.42 | wenshan | I installed ibus and a few ibus input methods using apt-get. The current version number of ibus in the Debian repository is 1.5.3-7, but I'd like to install ibus 1.4 instead, how can I downgrade ibus to an older version? According to http://tinyurl.com/c3qtsxk, I tried "sudo apt-get install ibus=1.4.1-9+deb7u1", but the system gives "E: Version '1.4.1-9+deb7u1' for 'ibus' was not found". |
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| 00:47.08 | kruug | dark_node: yes, but what happens when the next Stable rolls around? Then I'm stuck in oldstable |
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| 00:47.34 | dark_node | It will be a long time before there is a new stable =) |
| 00:47.44 | dark_node | And when it comes, just reinstall? |
| 00:48.42 | kruug | dark_node: not really an option...VPS... |
| 00:49.01 | kruug | ok, so instead of trying to convince me to leave it as Wheezy, why not help answer the question? |
| 00:50.16 | dark_node | Ok if you want to see my sources I can pastebin, but I rock crunchbang. Will be tiny bit diff. |
| 00:51.44 | dark_node | http://pastebin.com/PyRcjF0k |
| 00:53.04 | kruug | Still referencing Wheezy explicitly, but thanks for playing ;) |
| 00:53.27 | dark_node | That was the question you asked.... |
| 00:53.40 | kruug | Let me ask it this way then, if I take the example code from here: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList |
| 00:53.44 | dark_node | Wheezy IS stable.... |
| 00:53.48 | kruug | but change Wheezy to stable, will that work? |
| 00:53.50 | dark_node | Janice is testing. |
| 00:53.54 | kruug | Jessy is testing |
| 00:53.59 | dark_node | I mean jessy sorry lol. |
| 00:53.59 | kruug | but thanks for playing ;) |
| 00:54.05 | dark_node | Sid is exp. |
| 00:54.14 | dark_node | So what do you mean change wheezy to stable? |
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| 00:54.50 | kruug | so, instead of deb http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy main, I used deb http://http.debian.net/debian stable main |
| 00:54.55 | kruug | stable-updates |
| 00:55.00 | kruug | and stable/updates |
| 00:55.29 | themill | kruug: you should use the code name not the release status in your sources.list. Please use wheezy, wheezy-updates wheezy/updates etc. |
| 00:55.40 | themill | dpkg: tell kruug about stable sources.list |
| 00:55.45 | kruug | themill: what's the reasoning for that? |
| 00:56.11 | kruug | well, that's rediculous... |
| 00:56.16 | themill | not at all |
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| 00:56.32 | dark_node | Why is that kruug? |
| 00:56.53 | kruug | because you're replacing packages, not running old and new side-by-side |
| 00:57.07 | kruug | therefore, an upgrade should be trivial |
| 00:57.09 | themill | there's nothing ridiculous about not leaving a loaded gun lying around or wanting to upgrade to the next stable release when it's convenient to you and not just because the release happened yesterday |
| 00:57.19 | themill | no, an upgrade like that is never going to be trivial |
| 00:57.45 | kruug | but that's why you allow stable and wheezy to be used interchangably, but have each one do something different at the server level |
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| 00:57.58 | kruug | so the server sees a call to stable and grabs everything in the current stable |
| 00:58.17 | kruug | or the server sees a call to wheezy and grabs everything in the Wheezy repo |
| 00:58.18 | themill | no. that's not going to work |
| 00:58.31 | themill | well -- "wheezy |
| 00:58.41 | themill | " will work, "stable" will end up biting you in the arse one day |
| 00:58.55 | kruug | why? |
| 00:59.00 | themill | what dpkg said |
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| 00:59.19 | dark_node | kruug: Do it if you want. That is all I can say at this point. |
| 00:59.23 | kruug | Upgrading between releases is no longer trivial |
| 00:59.25 | bitko | bzed: You know what. I've solved the problem. There is sth wrong with me MD Raid |
| 00:59.28 | kruug | that's the part I don't get |
| 00:59.36 | kruug | why is it no longer trivial? |
| 00:59.43 | kruug | what changed that made it no longer? |
| 00:59.55 | bitko | bzed: with my mdadm array. |
| 01:00.03 | themill | kruug: Debian is one of the few distros you can upgrade in place at all. A lot of work goes into making it possible but it's not going to be a trivial task. |
| 01:00.25 | bitko | bzed: I've changed partition and it's working without a problem |
| 01:00.28 | kruug | But, it apparently used to be... |
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| 01:00.47 | kruug | because dpkg told me it's no longer, meaning it was at one point |
| 01:00.48 | zinx | it is trivial, you just need to follow the upgrade guide included in the release notes |
| 01:01.01 | themill | kruug: an upgrade from wheezy to jessie will bring in new versions of apache, postfix, ... Each of them will require manual changes to the confg files. |
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| 01:01.20 | kruug | themill: ok, so pop up the prompt during upgrade |
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| 01:01.27 | themill | kruug: You sometimes need to upgrade the packages in a certain sequence (e.g. udev and kernel then the rest of the system). |
| 01:01.30 | kruug | it did it when I upgraded samba |
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| 01:01.52 | kruug | themill: seems like the documentation is there, so why can't apt be coded to do so? |
| 01:01.59 | themill | umm... |
| 01:02.01 | themill | how? |
| 01:02.23 | kruug | themill: where does it get it's information for updated packages? |
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| 01:02.24 | dark_node | kruug: It is an open source OS....please feel free to contribute. |
| 01:02.27 | kruug | have a directives list |
| 01:02.40 | themill | kruug: for something like squeeze->wheezy, there is no deterministic upgrade path. It requires manual work. |
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| 01:02.53 | kruug | dark_node: if I had the programming skills I would, but the best I could do is start the same conversation via mailing list |
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| 01:03.24 | dark_node | I can barely write python, I feel you heh. |
| 01:03.51 | LindyThing | kruug: you have plenty of time to develop coding skills before the next stable release. :) |
| 01:03.53 | themill | kruug: this is never going to be an automated step. The admin needs to be involved. |
| 01:04.14 | kruug | themill: agreed, but that doesn't mean you can't do it via leaving it stable in sources.list |
| 01:04.21 | kruug | once it hits that point, pop up a prompt |
| 01:04.26 | themill | kruug: also, can you guarantee that you will upgrade to the next stable release on the day it is made? You're sure you'll be ready to do so> |
| 01:04.40 | kruug | you shouldn't be running unattended upgrades anyways |
| 01:04.43 | kruug | at least, not in stable |
| 01:04.48 | kruug | themill: yes |
| 01:05.02 | themill | kruug: you will be one of the very few people for whom that is the case. |
| 01:05.03 | kruug | unless the VPS host doesn't have it ready on their end :/ |
| 01:05.11 | kruug | but at home, I would |
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| 01:05.31 | kruug | I don't run apt-get upgrade/apt-get dist-upgrade unless I know I have the time to fix any issues |
| 01:05.34 | themill | really? no chance you might be busy and want to do it anothe dy? |
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| 01:05.51 | kruug | themill: so then I don't run apt-get update |
| 01:05.56 | kruug | simple as that |
| 01:06.05 | themill | so what happens if there's a security update you know you need to apply in that period between the release being made and you having time to dist-upgrade? |
| 01:06.16 | kruug | We're not Windows here...we're not forced to Automated Updates |
| 01:06.26 | kruug | themill: there's another issue I have |
| 01:06.34 | kruug | why isn't there apt-get security-update |
| 01:06.35 | themill | so you'd just ignore the security update for that period? |
| 01:06.50 | kruug | there should be a way to update JUST security fixes |
| 01:06.58 | themill | that's what the stable release is for |
| 01:07.06 | kruug | leave anything that needs interaction out of that command |
| 01:07.25 | themill | so just leave your sources.list pointing at wheezy. Job done. |
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| 01:07.34 | kruug | stable is stable everything, not just stable secuirty |
| 01:07.39 | kruug | *security |
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| 01:07.46 | themill | stable is unchanging. |
| 01:07.54 | kruug | yes, so no updates what-so-ever |
| 01:07.58 | kruug | so stable will never change |
| 01:08.03 | kruug | Wheezy will be stable forever |
| 01:08.09 | kruug | stable will be Wheezy forever |
| 01:08.13 | themill | no |
| 01:08.15 | kruug | :) |
| 01:08.16 | kruug | yes |
| 01:08.18 | dark_node | nope. |
| 01:08.19 | kruug | that's what you just said |
| 01:08.27 | kruug | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:08.30 | rjsalts | no, it'll be stable until jessie is released, then it'll be oldstable |
| 01:08.31 | themill | *sigh* |
| 01:08.44 | dark_node | troll? |
| 01:08.45 | kruug | rjsalts: not according to themill |
| 01:08.57 | themill | kruug: feel free to argue with /dev/null. You're unwilling to accept that these things are design decisions and just want to argue. |
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| 01:09.17 | kruug | themill: so they're actual decisions made by the Debian powers that be? |
| 01:09.25 | kruug | so there's a record of it somewhere? |
| 01:09.34 | kruug | why not link to that and avoid the debate? |
| 01:09.44 | themill | what? |
| 01:09.51 | dark_node | Why not use arch? |
| 01:10.00 | kruug | dark_node: because I dont' like unstable :) |
| 01:10.11 | themill | kruug: I've explained how it works. If you want more information, you can find it on google. |
| 01:10.18 | kruug | s/they're/there are |
| 01:10.42 | kruug | no...I don't need that fix...nvmd |
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| 01:14.06 | kruug | themill: google's got nothing |
| 01:14.36 | _afu_ | Does this help: http://www.debian.org/releases/ |
| 01:16.17 | kruug | _afu_: I still don't see anything regarding why stable is sources.list is bad practice... |
| 01:16.45 | themill | well nothing we tell you is going to convince you of that so I don't know why you're still asking |
| 01:16.46 | _afu_ | kruug, Ah. Ok |
| 01:18.13 | kruug | themill: I haven't heard anything truely convincing. Basically, what I've heard so far is "That's the way it is so do it that way." |
| 01:18.17 | rjsalts | kruug: have fun some time in early to mid 2015 then |
| 01:18.26 | kruug | I want to know why it is that way. |
| 01:18.38 | themill | well I've explained that and you choose to reject that. |
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| 01:19.00 | kruug | themill: I felt like the reasoning was poor. And what you said was very high-level. |
| 01:19.08 | themill | you don't need to follow sensible-admin-practice-101 if you don't want to |
| 01:20.00 | themill | kruug: you never answered my question about what you would do if there were a security update on the day after the new stable release but you were unable to upgrade that day |
| 01:20.14 | rjsalts | kruug: configuration files might be incompatible between versions. This may require some work and planning to get the software working the way you desire when the upgrade happens |
| 01:20.27 | kruug | themill: I did. I stated that if I didn't have the time, I would not run apt-get upgrade that day |
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| 01:20.47 | kruug | rjsalts: so, it can still be interactive to run an upgrade |
| 01:20.50 | themill | kruug: so you choose to ignore the security update for however many weeks until you're ready? |
| 01:20.52 | themill | nice work. |
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| 01:21.15 | kruug | themill: no, I would prefer to run apt-get security-upgrade, but it's currently not implemented |
| 01:21.24 | kruug | which is one gripe I've had for a while |
| 01:21.43 | kruug | Ubuntu offers the capability to handle this automatically, but Debian has no regard for it |
| 01:21.48 | themill | kruug: except that command couldn't possibly work anyway because you don't have wheezy/updates in your sources.list |
| 01:21.59 | kruug | but, I do have stable/updates |
| 01:22.00 | themill | kruug: untrue |
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| 01:22.13 | themill | kruug: and stable/updates doesn't contain this security update |
| 01:22.19 | kruug | themill: it would |
| 01:22.26 | themill | no, it would be in oldstable/updates |
| 01:22.27 | dark_node | themill: It is hopeless. |
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| 01:22.33 | themill | dark_node: correct |
| 01:22.46 | kruug | themill: no, because Wheezy is oldstable, and the update would be in new stable |
| 01:22.55 | themill | kruug: not one you can install on your system |
| 01:23.11 | kruug | ah, so that's where my error in thinking is |
| 01:23.22 | rjsalts | kruug: the policy for a stable release is that no upgrades where configuration files change format are allowed |
| 01:23.48 | kruug | interesting |
| 01:24.06 | rjsalts | kruug: but if you put in stable instead of a particular release then that guarantee of configuration files being consistent is broken |
| 01:24.11 | dondelelcaro | rjsalts: it's really that updates should be serious bugfix+secruity, and the longer we're released, the more serious a bug has to be before it's fixed |
| 01:24.20 | kruug | rjsalts: except dist-upgrading from oldstable to newstable, right? |
| 01:24.44 | kruug | rjsalts: not entirely untrue |
| 01:24.53 | kruug | wait, yes |
| 01:25.18 | kruug | because if they updated the config file in stable, but not Wheezy, then... |
| 01:25.26 | kruug | I think I'm starting to grasp it. |
| 01:25.30 | kruug | Thanks rjsalts |
| 01:25.34 | rjsalts | kruug: yes, which is where you do the planning for potential changes in packages you're interested in |
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| 01:27.53 | kruug | so, by getting rid of the release option in sources.list, you can ensure the config file is always in the proper location instead of having to potentially distribute it from multiple locations |
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| 01:28.49 | alusion | how do I check if I have amd drivers installed and working on desktop |
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| 01:30.32 | vectory | alusion: as root run glxinfo|grep -i vendor |
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| 01:31.43 | rjsalts | vectory: you shouldn't need root |
| 01:31.58 | rjsalts | alusion: see above |
| 01:32.02 | alusion | I don't have that package |
| 01:33.09 | vectory | rjsalts: i do though, any idea why? |
| 01:33.52 | vectory | alusion: install mes-utils or sth |
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| 01:34.00 | vectory | mesa-utils* |
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| 01:36.30 | rjsalts | vectory: your user doesn't have permissions on the video device for direct rendering? |
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| 01:38.22 | alusion | this is what I got back http://sprunge.us/DcJL |
| 01:39.26 | rjsalts | alusion: it means it's using the ATI drivers |
| 01:39.52 | alusion | i don't think its up to performance |
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| 01:45.20 | wenshan | I installed ibus and a few ibus input methods using apt-get. The current version number of ibus in the Debian repository is 1.5.3-7, but I'd like to install ibus 1.4 instead, how can I downgrade ibus to an older version? According to http://tinyurl.com/c3qtsxk, I tried "sudo apt-get install ibus=1.4.1-9+deb7u1", but the system gives "E: Version '1.4.1-9+deb7u1' for 'ibus' was not found". |
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| 01:52.38 | vectory | wenshan: there are ways, but not recommendable if you dont know how the system plays with the differences |
| 01:52.43 | alusion | how do I reset mouse in center screen |
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| 01:53.17 | Neozonz|Disc | why does mysql log to /var/lib/mysql/name.err? |
| 01:53.21 | Neozonz|Disc | how can i change this behaviour? |
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| 01:56.23 | nkuttler | Neozonz|Disc: try /etc/mysql/* or the mysql docs |
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| 01:57.08 | Neozonz|Disc | thx found the reason |
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| 02:00.33 | wenshan | vectory: ibus-1.5 doesn't play well with ibus-el (an Emacs plugin), see here http://tinyurl.com/na6dqh5, that's why I want to switch back to an older version. |
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| 02:02.59 | tomatosalad | how long does it take for the mit pgp server to update? |
| 02:03.07 | tomatosalad | I'm trying to de-associated a uid >_> |
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| 02:21.51 | MouseTheLuckyDog | Is there a way to programatically read the control fields in a deb package? |
| 02:22.39 | vectory | MouseTheLuckyDog: ofc, a .deb is just a tar of textfiles |
| 02:22.59 | vectory | and binaries :| |
| 02:24.00 | MouseTheLuckyDog | I thought it was an "ar" file, not a "tar" file. Not that I know the difference. |
| 02:24.55 | larks | anyone having problems with x11 copying and pasting not working? |
| 02:26.19 | rryoumaa | ar is pretty much a concatenation. tar is an abomination of accreted formats. |
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| 02:26.37 | rryoumaa | (an impressive one, except for the bit about not being able to turn off the leading / warning) |
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| 02:26.44 | zinx | MouseTheLuckyDog: better, it's an ar file of tar files! |
| 02:26.51 | xorgnak | larks: always. |
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| 02:28.45 | larks | xorgnak: ? |
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| 02:49.40 | matada | can someone help me get ssh to load at boot on raspbian |
| 02:51.34 | peterrooney | matada: /msg dpkg based on debian |
| 02:52.42 | matada | mew? |
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| 02:54.28 | peterrooney | dpkg: based on debian |
| 02:54.28 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 02:56.05 | gr33n7007h | How to run steam as root? |
| 02:56.50 | refrax | anyone know of a good starting place to eliminate video tearing in debian 7? I get tearing in all video players I've tried, smplayer, vlc etc. Youtube and flex player videos tear too. I've searched a bit but an running into dead ends. I have an AMD processor with Radeon 3000 on board, drivers appear to be loaded according to lsmod |
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| 03:06.39 | refrax | I assume it's something to do with refresh rates, as I've not been able to capture the tearing in a screenshot, but I also don't know enough about it to know if that's even a valid troubleshooting step. |
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| 03:12.17 | sankey | gnutls throws a non fatal error when connecting to my server from this domain: linux.ucla.edu |
| 03:12.17 | sankey | because the reverse dns is not the exact same: hiroshima.linux.ucla.edu |
| 03:12.19 | sankey | the issue is that git on debian wheezy considers it to be fatal |
| 03:12.20 | sankey | and i'll try to take care of that with git upstream |
| 03:12.22 | sankey | my main question is this: is this a gnutls bug, a git bug, or both? |
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| 03:13.26 | phunyguy | hello, I would like to install Debian testing in a VM to see how that looks, but when downloading the netinst iso, and booting in virtualbox, I am getting an error about no kernel modules being found on the CD. |
| 03:14.08 | phunyguy | whoops, should've asked in #debian-next |
| 03:14.10 | phunyguy | sorry |
| 03:14.20 | arun_ | Hello guys, what is a lang_term in locale? |
| 03:16.33 | FuuqUmist | there are 8 iso cd images, do you have to download all 8? |
| 03:16.44 | Penix | FuuqUmist: no |
| 03:17.03 | FuuqUmist | just the first one? |
| 03:17.11 | dvs | ...and there's a lot more than 8 |
| 03:17.40 | Penix | FuuqUmist: yes. that will give you a regular base system (with X if you want) |
| 03:17.55 | Penix | FuuqUmist: I think gnome and kde might be on the second. you can just apt-get them after installing though |
| 03:18.35 | FuuqUmist | is it gnome, gnome 2, cinnamon or mate? |
| 03:18.44 | dvs | gnome 3 |
| 03:18.50 | FuuqUmist | oh |
| 03:19.22 | FuuqUmist | i heard people don't like gnome 3 or something |
| 03:19.34 | dvs | raises his hand |
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| 03:35.42 | cahewson | does mutt smime signing/encryption work? I haven't succeeded on squeeze or backports. |
| 03:37.52 | zykotick9 | cahewson: well, mutt's gpg support works in wheezy - i can say that for sure... best of luck. |
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| 03:44.37 | jelly-home | gpg support has been working for more than decade in mutt |
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| 03:51.21 | HanHeld | Hello, I want to distribute a virtual machine based on Debian. I will not be making any changes to Debian itself, but including a series of programs with it. Would including the lines apt-get the source files included with my appliance satisfy the requirement to include the source? Or do I need to download and include each source package individually? |
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| 03:59.43 | HanHeld | Hello, I want to distribute a virtual machine based on Debian. I will not be making any changes to Debian itself, but including a series of programs with it. Would including the lines apt-get the source files included with my appliance satisfy the requirement to include the source? Or do I need to download and include each source package individually? ((sorry for the repost, I posted that before the netsplit)) |
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| 04:01.06 | jelly-home | HanHeld: showing where to get it and keeping that place functioning for the lifetime of the product +2-3 years ought to be enough |
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| 04:04.21 | HanHeld | jelly-home thanks, I'm going to add the source lines to sources.list and also see if there's a tool which will fetch the source for all the packages installed (so I can mirror them, if I have to) |
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| 04:12.25 | FreeBSD-user | hello |
| 04:12.30 | FreeBSD-user | hi alll |
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| 04:12.55 | stew_ | HanHeld: aptitude source '~i' ? |
| 04:16.13 | HanHeld | stew_ ty for the pointer; I'll read up on that. |
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| 04:24.44 | phy1729 | I have an apt-get upgrade that's been stalled for over a day now at "Setting up console-setup (1.102)" any ideas? |
| 04:25.22 | emss | answer the questions? |
| 04:25.35 | phy1729 | there are no questions |
| 04:28.06 | peterrooney | phy1729: what do you believe would happen if you interrupted it and then ran "apt-get -f install" ? |
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| 04:28.49 | phy1729 | no idea |
| 04:29.35 | zykotick9 | phy1729: ahhh, after a day... i don't think it's gonna finish... i'd have cancelled it a long time ago... |
| 04:29.36 | phy1729 | worst comes to worst I can just reinstall all the important stuff is on a separate partition |
| 04:29.56 | phy1729 | I did it in a tmux session and kinda forgot about it, zykotick9 |
| 04:30.34 | emss | phy1729 check the log? |
| 04:31.14 | phy1729 | which one? apt is mostly magic to be but if you have a good link I'd be willing to learn |
| 04:31.15 | zykotick9 | phy1729: i'd cancel, then try "aptitude -f install" to see if anything's broken (remove lock if necessary). |
| 04:31.24 | emss | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:31.38 | zykotick9 | phy1729: "apt-get -f install" in your case |
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| 04:32.07 | DANtheBEASTman | so.. anybody using steam on wheezy? the steam.deb uses libc6 2.15 not sure what to do about that |
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| 04:33.23 | phy1729 | emss: http://sprunge.us/TQHX |
| 04:33.26 | kript | who use primecoin ? |
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| 04:34.00 | emss | why are you showing me :( |
| 04:34.25 | phy1729 | I thought you asked for them |
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| 04:36.43 | emss | phy1729 no idea but maybe you could see if the package is in /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
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| 04:37.35 | emss | dpkg -l | grep console-setup |
| 04:37.36 | dpkg | No packages found matching | grep console-setup |
| 04:37.50 | emss | that's nice |
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| 04:42.06 | phy1729 | all that shows is half configured |
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| 04:45.28 | emss | does console-setup ask questions? |
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| 04:48.32 | emss | phy1729 have you had to answer any questions with console-setup? |
| 04:48.48 | phy1729 | nope |
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| 04:49.10 | emss | what was the apt-get command you used? |
| 04:49.19 | phy1729 | sudo apt-get upgrade |
| 04:49.47 | Danic | I haave a file /etc/group-, shadow- and passwd-. What are those files with the minus sign? |
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| 04:51.23 | emss | phy1729 the only thing i can think of is it might be prompting you to answer something ... |
| 04:51.55 | phy1729 | I just removed it with dpkg and am trying to apt-get upgrade again |
| 04:53.03 | gr33n7007h | Danic, They're just backup files |
| 04:53.18 | Danic | gr33n7007h, ah thanks |
| 04:53.24 | indes | better than .group, .shadow and .passwd! :D |
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| 04:53.36 | Danic | ^^ |
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| 04:54.22 | Danic | okay, I am setting up a simple webserver and I was thinking what would be a better root directory to use: /var/www or /usr/local/var/www. any hints? |
| 04:54.36 | emss | phy1729 did it pass console-setup? |
| 04:54.47 | indes | usr/local is so bsd-ish. |
| 04:55.03 | zykotick9 | while passwd/passwd- and shadow/shadow- are the same sizes, why would group and group- be different sizes? group- being smaller. |
| 04:55.06 | phy1729 | emss: it completed but is complaining about other things now |
| 04:55.14 | phy1729 | Danic: /srv/www |
| 04:55.20 | indes | zykotick9, there are more groups in the new version? :D |
| 04:55.38 | indes | zykotick9, diff /etc/group /etc/group- |
| 04:55.48 | indes | it'll tell you what the difference is |
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| 04:56.40 | zykotick9 | indes: utempter being the difference ;) thanks! |
| 04:56.51 | indes | so utempting. |
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| 04:58.15 | zykotick9 | now i'm scared! i have no idea where that came from, and it's for priv escallation! still investigating... |
| 04:59.48 | zykotick9 | hummm, "aptitude why libutempter0" says mosh depends. not scared anymore ;) |
| 05:00.03 | indes | seems legit |
| 05:00.16 | zykotick9 | oh, i installed mosh ;) |
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| 05:18.58 | tomatosalad | anybody else here run debian on a netbook? |
| 05:19.15 | tomatosalad | I love debian and I'd like to stick to it, but I've heard really really good things about arch and crunchbang on netbooks |
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| 05:19.52 | OSVG | Arch is pretty awesome...but Debian has it's own benefits. Arch is always cutting edge, and you're updating pretty constantly. |
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| 05:20.11 | tomatosalad | I'm mostly focusing on netbook-specific stuff here |
| 05:20.23 | FuuqUmist | get Debian - LXDE version, it will be super fast |
| 05:20.30 | OSVG | Do you back up pretty often? |
| 05:20.42 | indes | only if I can't go forwards. |
| 05:20.48 | OSVG | +1 |
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| 05:21.14 | tomatosalad | OSVG: I'm actually thinking of making this kind of a paranoidbox |
| 05:21.21 | zykotick9 | tomatosalad: i run debian (stable) on my setbook, but i value stability over all else... YMMV |
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| 05:21.41 | FuuqUmist | lxde is lightweight, just add the software you want |
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| 05:22.02 | OSVG | tomatosalad: Arch occasionally will brick if you update at ~just~ the wrong moment. And you will update often to keep it working right. |
| 05:22.10 | tomatosalad | hm, ok |
| 05:22.19 | OSVG | I love it...but it's a little on the needy side. |
| 05:22.24 | tomatosalad | what about #!? I've heard it highly recommended for netbooks |
| 05:22.27 | FuuqUmist | of you can try Lubuntu a ubuntu based distro |
| 05:22.28 | OSVG | Debian I love because it's configure and forget. |
| 05:22.30 | FuuqUmist | or* |
| 05:22.48 | tomatosalad | fuck everything about ubuntu |
| 05:22.50 | tomatosalad | wait, can i swear here? |
| 05:22.51 | OSVG | #! is neat, but I'd pick Arch over #! imo. YMMV. |
| 05:22.51 | tomatosalad | sorry |
| 05:23.52 | zykotick9 | OSVG: why recommend arch or #! in #debian? tomatosalad debian, ftw. YMMV still. |
| 05:24.19 | OSVG | zykotick9: I meant Arch v #!. I again pushed Debian because it is configure and forget for me. |
| 05:24.24 | OSVG | While Arch is maintenance heavy. |
| 05:24.42 | phy1729 | OSVG: I installed a dozen different distros last week, arch and gentoo had the worst install process; having to chroot and mount manually? no thanks |
| 05:24.45 | tomatosalad | zykotick9: yeah, I know how great debian is, I dualboot it on this computer (macbook pro) and it's also on my server and experimental box |
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| 05:25.06 | zykotick9 | OSVG: ask in ##linux or arch or #! channels then... this is #debian support |
| 05:25.08 | tomatosalad | ok, so, Debian vs #! is what I'm really concerned about, I guess |
| 05:25.23 | OSVG | zykotick9: I don't think you understood what I was aying... |
| 05:25.24 | FuuqUmist | but with debian you won't be getting the latest software, which is the point of an OS is to use software |
| 05:25.27 | OSVG | tomatosalad: Debian. |
| 05:26.03 | tomatosalad | anybody know why people love crunchbang so much for netbooks? |
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| 05:26.17 | ctmjr | this is debian support not what distro is better |
| 05:26.20 | zykotick9 | !tell FuuqUmist about sns |
| 05:26.24 | tomatosalad | also, is there something like this for debian besides securingdebian or whatever on the wiki? http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=24722 |
| 05:26.39 | tomatosalad | !tell tomatosalad about sns |
| 05:26.40 | FuuqUmist | probably because it is lightweight? what DE does it use? |
| 05:26.55 | tomatosalad | heh. |
| 05:27.02 | Derpadong | Openbox |
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| 05:27.06 | tomatosalad | yeah, openbox |
| 05:27.09 | Derpadong | <_< |
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| 05:28.06 | emss | `aptitude install openbox' |
| 05:28.20 | tomatosalad | >_> |
| 05:28.21 | FuuqUmist | well if you like openbox then use crunchbag |
| 05:28.23 | Derpadong | Crunchbang is Debian-based, but is not maintained by Debian nor do Debian support channels help crunchbang users |
| 05:28.25 | tomatosalad | that's not what I'm asking about at all |
| 05:29.06 | FuuqUmist | lxde is basically a theme of openbox |
| 05:29.15 | Derpadong | You could just make Debian your distro of choice and then make it look like crunchbang by default |
| 05:30.37 | tomatosalad | dammit that's not what I'm asking, I'm asking if there are any major differences other than DE |
| 05:31.20 | FuuqUmist | when i used Debian LXDE start up was using about 80 MB ram iirc |
| 05:31.27 | Derpadong | tomatosalad: Extra sources, special made apps, its own theme and wallpapers, lightweight apps |
| 05:31.31 | FuuqUmist | Slitaz was much more lightweight tho |
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| 05:32.37 | Derpadong | brb |
| 05:33.06 | tomatosalad | :| |
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| 05:35.19 | Derpadong | back lol |
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| 05:35.39 | tomatosalad | I should really backup all the stuff on my server and nuke it, I'm sure my web setup is full of security holes |
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| 06:13.39 | Isanyone | anyone? |
| 06:14.11 | OSVG | ? |
| 06:15.04 | Isanyone | I have a problem with the grub. U can help me ? |
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| 06:20.12 | OSVG | What's the issue, maybe I can help? |
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| 06:25.20 | wolfgang_ | Hello, I am thinking about installing a second linux, a more light weight one for my games, and I think debian is best, I am familiar with ubuntu, I use it for the nice looking interface, but is setting up debian hard at all? |
| 06:25.51 | OSVG | No. It's installer is quite easy to follow and fairly powerful. |
| 06:26.04 | Isanyone | I have the SO "Huayra" is a linux based on Debian. I modified the grub and i need restore all the grub, but the command "update-grub" work but when i reboot mi pc got an error, "the file X.img is missing" i dont remember exactly the name of the file. |
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| 06:27.12 | wolfgang_ | OSVG: as far as dual booting, would I just put the boot manager in my free space, which is where I put it for ubuntu and make a new partition for debian itself? |
| 06:28.21 | james41382 | Isanyone: did you try #grub? |
| 06:28.57 | *** join/#debian deb12 (310ee5cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.14.229.203) |
| 06:29.21 | Isanyone | I dont think that XD ,,,, im going to sleep and them ask in #grub... ty C: |
| 06:30.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1396] by debhelper |
| 06:30.08 | deb12 | hey hi to all .. Actually i have started facing a problem where an error shows up just before logging screen which says:- Cannot Apply Stored Configuration for monitors Error At Line 1 Char 1: Document is Either empty or there are emty spaces in it I tried looking for the solution of this problem in various forums..where they told to delete the monitors.xml file from .config folder in home.. i tried that tooo .. but didnt yield any r |
| 06:30.20 | deb12 | any help is appreciated.. |
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| 06:32.15 | OSVG | wolfgang: you should only need grub once afaik? |
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| 06:33.35 | deb12 | any one there to help me ? |
| 06:34.16 | wolfgang_ | OSVG: as far as dual booting, would I just put the boot manager in my free space, which is where I put it for ubuntu and make a new partition for debian itself? |
| 06:34.57 | OSVG | woflgang: Should be. |
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| 06:47.42 | dudz | whats the python package manager called? |
| 06:48.14 | dudz | *module manager even, i just want to install python modules but i'm geting all this bullshit when i try google for that |
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| 06:49.41 | zykotick9 | dudz: i have NO idea, but does "apt-cache search ^python | grep modules" help? |
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| 06:51.28 | blocky | has anyone ever heard of a bug that generates a ton of F10 keypresses or did i just break my keyboard when i dropped my laptop |
| 06:52.17 | dudz | yes thanks that was helpful zykotick9 |
| 06:52.21 | blocky | kernel 3.10.3-amd64 |
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| 06:56.00 | well_laid_lawn | I'd say the keyboard has issues |
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| 07:07.31 | SPF | my eth interface is named external-traf~1, but if I do tcpdump -ni external-traf~1 it says it cannot find the interface |
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| 07:08.16 | OSVG | try un-truncating the interface name? |
| 07:09.29 | zykotick9 | SPF: ahhh, why does "external-traf~1" look so windows like? |
| 07:09.50 | SPF | ip link show external-traf~1 does work howevery |
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| 07:13.18 | SPF | tcpdump -D is not supported |
| 07:13.36 | wolfgang_ | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:17.50 | ahutton_ | If I do a 'Suspend', what happens to grub to tell it to resume? I did a suspend on my embedded device and now it doesn't boot straight into Xorg. |
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| 07:22.23 | zykotick9 | ahutton_: sidenote, my eeepc use to hibernate correctly, until the 7.2 update, now... not so much... best of luck! |
| 07:23.10 | zykotick9 | ahutton_: sorry, i never used suspend.. so don't know if it's even related! |
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| 07:37.38 | ShapeShifter499 | hi guys |
| 07:37.54 | ElectronFunBaby | hi |
| 07:38.49 | ShapeShifter499 | mumpitzel, in case your still wondering, everything "just worked" after installing the liquorix kernel and the "firmware-atheros" packages |
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| 07:39.40 | ShapeShifter499 | mumpitzel, that was on the trackpad issue I had yesterday |
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| 07:41.18 | alusion | has anyone here installed bitcoin for the latest wheezy |
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| 07:44.12 | ShapeShifter499 | now I'm wondering, from what I find iceweasel and firefox are practically the same sans the debian specific security/system patches and artwork changes correct? so does that mean I can move my firefox profile from my ubuntu backup over to my debian system? |
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| 07:46.09 | tomboy65 | ShapeShifter499: try it out, worth a try. |
| 07:46.16 | tomboy65 | but yeah, should work |
| 07:47.04 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, do you know if iceweasel syncs to firefox servers for password and bookmark backups? |
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| 07:47.37 | tomboy65 | ShapeShifter499: i didn't know it did that in the first place. actually, that would be quite annoying. |
| 07:48.14 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, annoying? I use their services to sync with firefox for android |
| 07:48.46 | tomboy65 | :) if it happened without my consent, that is |
| 07:49.01 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, oh lol |
| 07:49.12 | tomboy65 | and since i never gave that i would find it quite annoying. |
| 07:49.39 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, oh lol |
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| 07:50.01 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, no I'm pretty sure you have to turn it on before anything happens |
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| 07:50.25 | tomboy65 | good. ^^ |
| 07:50.37 | tomboy65 | firefox is not chrome :p |
| 07:50.40 | Dewi | iirc it also claims to be encrypted on the server |
| 07:50.54 | Dewi | so you do have to be careful not to lose the secret |
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| 07:51.54 | Dewi | (but that should mean they don't have the key to see your stuff) |
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| 07:53.42 | ShapeShifter499 | Oh I noticed a bug, the iceweasel default start page says "Thanks for choosing Firefox! To get the most out of your browser, learn more about the latest features." |
| 07:53.52 | ShapeShifter499 | lol |
| 07:53.54 | ShapeShifter499 | oops |
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| 07:54.29 | Dirkos | My server mail keeps ending up in my spambox... is there anythign i can do about this? |
| 07:55.52 | alusion | NASA uses debian on the ISS? |
| 07:55.55 | alusion | :o |
| 07:56.17 | ShapeShifter499 | alusion, too them long enough |
| 07:56.24 | ShapeShifter499 | *took |
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| 07:58.47 | ShapeShifter499 | alusion, I couldn't believe they still used windows for a long time |
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| 07:59.03 | ShapeShifter499 | and xp of all things lol |
| 07:59.50 | alusion | lol |
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| 08:00.20 | tomatosalad | oh god I wish there was a script that would retrieve the current writer's almanac poem, that'd be a wonderful thing to stick in .profile |
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| 08:00.56 | ShapeShifter499 | alusion, I'm kind of surprised no one took out the iss using some windows exploit |
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| 08:02.07 | well_laid_lawn | reddit had post about stuxnet infecting the iss |
| 08:02.39 | alusion | WOW! |
| 08:02.42 | alusion | ranger is so awesome! |
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| 08:03.02 | doebi | ifconfig provides a counter of RX and TX bytes, i am logging them to a mysqldb, when do these values overflow? as in start at 0 again? |
| 08:03.38 | ShapeShifter499 | alusion, huh? |
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| 08:06.52 | bezaban | ,version salt-master |
| 08:06.54 | judd | Package: salt-master on i386 -- squeeze-backports-sloppy: 0.15.1-1~bpo60+1; wheezy-backports: 0.16.4-2~bpo70+1; jessie: 0.17.1+dfsg-1; sid: 0.17.1+dfsg-1 |
| 08:08.00 | bezaban | ,version salt-minion |
| 08:08.02 | judd | Package: salt-minion on i386 -- squeeze-backports-sloppy: 0.15.1-1~bpo60+1; wheezy-backports: 0.16.4-2~bpo70+1; jessie: 0.17.1+dfsg-1; sid: 0.17.1+dfsg-1 |
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| 08:10.13 | KidCartouche | ,version bcfg2 |
| 08:10.15 | judd | Package: bcfg2 on i386 -- squeeze: 1.0.1-3+squeeze2; squeeze-security: 1.0.1-3+squeeze2; wheezy: 1.2.2-2; jessie: 1.3.2-1; sid: 1.3.2-1 |
| 08:11.00 | james41382 | ,version cryptsetup |
| 08:11.00 | judd | Package: cryptsetup on i386 -- squeeze: 2:1.1.3-4squeeze2; wheezy: 2:1.4.3-4; jessie: 2:1.6.1-1; sid: 2:1.6.1-1 |
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| 08:11.38 | james41382 | I want cryptsetup >= 1.6 because it has support for truecrypt volumes for use with crypttab.. |
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| 08:15.07 | tomatosalad | I'm so sad that netbooks died out |
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| 08:15.23 | tomatosalad | tablets...why would anybody ever think they could replace an actual computer |
| 08:16.04 | ShapeShifter499 | tomatosalad, I think those hybrid tablets are better |
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| 08:16.26 | james41382 | tomatosalad: They are convenient, but I would say that they're a replacement for a computer. |
| 08:16.46 | james41382 | It's nice if you are just browsing the web from the couch or reading.. something to that effect. |
| 08:17.23 | tomatosalad | right, I'm agreeing with you |
| 08:17.31 | tomatosalad | and I'm sad that they took the netbook market |
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| 08:17.49 | ShapeShifter499 | tomatosalad, isn't a tablet just a netbook screen with touch xD |
| 08:17.57 | tomatosalad | like, I would buy a netbook that's built like a light toughbook - able to drop it, throw it against the wall... |
| 08:18.00 | tomatosalad | ShapeShifter499: no. |
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| 08:18.43 | ShapeShifter499 | tomatosalad, add a "netbook case" to your tablet and bam you have a netbook again |
| 08:19.11 | ShapeShifter499 | one of those that has a bluetooth or wired keyboard and a slot for a tablet |
| 08:19.35 | tomatosalad | can you put debian on a galaxy tab? no, I don't think so. |
| 08:19.42 | ShapeShifter499 | tomatosalad, yes, chroot |
| 08:19.59 | james41382 | disregard earlier statement.. I meant to say that they're *not* a replacement... |
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| 08:20.20 | ShapeShifter499 | tomatosalad, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YtNYYhy56Q |
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| 08:22.03 | tomatosalad | ShapeShifter499: that is such a fucking kludge |
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| 08:23.21 | chunkyhead | what exactly is the #flood channel for? to paste? |
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| 08:24.04 | well_laid_lawn | it's so ppl have an easy way to paste multiple lines |
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| 08:24.24 | chunkyhead | well_laid_lawn: don't we have pastebin services for that. *just wondering* |
| 08:24.30 | jelly-home | chunkyhead: it's been obsoleted by pastebins |
| 08:24.45 | chunkyhead | jelly-home: oh alright. |
| 08:24.52 | tomboy65 | there are tools like wgetpaste which kind of automate that with a minimum of cli-knowledge |
| 08:25.13 | chunkyhead | so why does this channel exist then/ |
| 08:25.52 | ShapeShifter499 | chunkyhead, no one can just delete a channel unless freenode staff did |
| 08:26.07 | well_laid_lawn | posterity |
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| 08:27.06 | chunkyhead | oh my bad. i thought the admins could delete :\ |
| 08:27.08 | tomatosalad | couldn't you deregister the channel and ban everybody who tries to enter? |
| 08:27.16 | tomatosalad | wouldn't that effectively delete it? |
| 08:27.30 | ShapeShifter499 | tomatosalad, Oh hadn't thought of it |
| 08:27.50 | chunkyhead | how would i flood stuff here if i am on cli? not that i can copy stuff right? |
| 08:28.24 | well_laid_lawn | something like /exec -o ls / |
| 08:28.42 | chunkyhead | bin |
| 08:28.53 | chunkyhead | boot |
| 08:28.53 | chunkyhead | dev |
| 08:28.53 | chunkyhead | etc |
| 08:28.53 | chunkyhead | home |
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| 08:28.55 | well_laid_lawn | dickhead |
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| 08:29.08 | chunkyhead | my bad |
| 08:29.08 | tomatosalad | Can I do this plausibile deniability shit with a fresh pair of debian installs? |
| 08:29.10 | chunkyhead | i thught this was #flood |
| 08:29.13 | chunkyhead | thought* |
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| 08:31.56 | ShapeShifter499 | youtube doesn't seem to load in iceweasel, anyone know how to make it work? |
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| 08:35.50 | tomboy65 | ShapeShifter499: youtube in general? or just the video? |
| 08:36.08 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, in general |
| 08:36.36 | tomboy65 | ShapeShifter499: can you visit other sites? google.com, cnn.com, whatever.com? |
| 08:36.41 | ShapeShifter499 | yes |
| 08:37.03 | tomboy65 | can you ping it? |
| 08:37.26 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, I can load youtube but the video never loads and plays |
| 08:37.29 | tomboy65 | e.g., run `ping youtube.com` on the cli |
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| 08:37.31 | tomboy65 | .... |
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| 08:37.40 | tomboy65 | that was what i was asking before. |
| 08:37.58 | ShapeShifter499 | sorry I misread >.< |
| 08:38.16 | tomboy65 | okay, you are most likely missing adobe flash. |
| 08:38.25 | tomboy65 | 2 solutions: use youtube's html5 |
| 08:38.28 | ShapeShifter499 | I thought html5 worked? |
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| 08:38.40 | ShapeShifter499 | it doesn't complain I don't have adobe flash |
| 08:38.41 | tomboy65 | or make adobe play nice with iceweasel. |
| 08:39.02 | tomboy65 | see on youtube.com/html5 whether it's active |
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| 08:40.26 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, ok.. I made sure html5 is enabled, nothing loading still |
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| 08:43.39 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, oh huh... suddenly started working |
| 08:43.57 | ShapeShifter499 | after trying to load 5 different videos |
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| 08:44.34 | tomboy65 | hehehe |
| 08:44.35 | tomboy65 | :) |
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| 08:44.48 | ShapeShifter499 | well then :D |
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| 08:53.18 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, oh apparently iceweasel does not support html5 hd (720p or higher) |
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| 08:53.44 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1pbbdk/debian_7_youtube_videos_only_play_in_240p/ |
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| 08:54.51 | ShapeShifter499 | tomboy65, I may have to try the iceweasel from backports |
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| 08:55.54 | tomboy65 | hehehe |
| 08:56.08 | tomboy65 | yup, try that |
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| 09:02.55 | osfd | Hi there, I would like to uninstall acrobat reader that I installed with the adobe binary |
| 09:03.01 | osfd | how should I proceed ? |
| 09:03.23 | well_laid_lawn | depends on how you installed it |
| 09:03.46 | osfd | ./AdbeRdr9.4.2-1_i486linux_fra.bin |
| 09:04.09 | osfd | obviously it's installed in my /opt dir |
| 09:04.34 | osfd | shoudld I just rm the Adoe folder in my /opt dir ? |
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| 09:04.53 | well_laid_lawn | so you don't need the package manager since it wasn't used to install it so what's wrong with rm -r / |
| 09:04.56 | well_laid_lawn | ? |
| 09:05.04 | well_laid_lawn | so you don't need the package manager since it wasn't used to install it so what's wrong with rm -r ? |
| 09:05.10 | well_laid_lawn | I meant... |
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| 09:06.35 | osfd | nothing wrong, I'm just asking |
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| 09:07.20 | osfd | like : "are we sure no other shit was installed somewhere else on my system and that removing that piece of S***T will do the trick ?" |
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| 09:10.26 | ShapeShifter499 | how do I get iceweasel from wheezy-backports? |
| 09:10.43 | ShapeShifter499 | oh nvm got it |
| 09:10.55 | ShapeShifter499 | I was using a wonky command I fixed |
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| 09:14.54 | riki | uso la version musix debian y no he podido instalar TL-WN722N ni compat, ni backports, ni ach9k, alguien sabe como audarme? |
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| 09:16.59 | riki | compat-wireless-3.6.8-1# make |
| 09:17.00 | riki | make -C /lib/modules/3.4.14-gnu-rt23-musix3-32/build M=/home/riki/Desktop/drivertplink/compat-wireless-3.6.8-1 modules |
| 09:17.00 | riki | make: *** /lib/modules/3.4.14-gnu-rt23-musix3-32/build: No existe el fichero o el directorio. Alto. |
| 09:17.00 | riki | make: *** [modules] Error 2 |
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| 09:18.25 | ShapeShifter499 | from what I understand only the package and its dependencies will be installed from backports using something like "apt-get install -t wheezy-backports iceweasel" right? |
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| 09:19.48 | ShapeShifter499 | when I do a "apt-get update" only the packages I explicitly installed from backports will only get their updates from backports, no others will be updated using backports right? |
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| 09:24.22 | ShapeShifter499 | anyone? |
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| 09:31.30 | monkwitdafunk | hi #debian. i have the 2012 published debian admin handbook. thank you debian-handbook.info |
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| 09:38.54 | babilen | ShapeShifter499: yes |
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| 09:40.03 | babilen | ShapeShifter499: Read "man 5 preferences" and pay attention to the discussion of the "ButAutomaticUpgrades:" option. |
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| 09:43.57 | ShapeShifter499 | babilen, ah ok, thanks |
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| 09:54.13 | lenswipe | hey guys |
| 09:54.28 | lenswipe | can someone tell me how to get a terminal inside an SMB share? |
| 09:54.29 | sabgenton | hello :) |
| 09:54.39 | lenswipe | I to cd to an SMB share but I'm not sure how |
| 09:54.59 | sabgenton | lenswipe: are you on a gui desktop? |
| 09:55.11 | lenswipe | cd smb://blah just tells me that it's not a directory and mount smb://blah/ /mnt/blah says its not in fstab |
| 09:55.18 | lenswipe | sabgenton: yes i am. |
| 09:56.03 | sabgenton | you can mount a samba share to a folder location on the debian filesystem |
| 09:56.08 | sabgenton | then cd into that |
| 09:56.23 | lenswipe | yes but i dont know how |
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| 09:56.46 | sabgenton | are you in gnome? |
| 09:56.49 | lenswipe | yes |
| 09:56.54 | lenswipe | gnome fallback because its a VM |
| 09:56.57 | sabgenton | there is another way |
| 09:57.16 | lenswipe | sabgenton: what's up is I have debian in a VM on a windows host. The debian vm has nodeJS installed and configured but the windows host doesn't. VMWare player can expose folders from the host as SMB shares which I want to go into with a terminal so i can run my node app from command line |
| 09:57.18 | sabgenton | gnome puts it's own sorta mount point in |
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| 09:57.47 | sabgenton | lenswipe: does it work in nautilus? |
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| 09:57.56 | lenswipe | sabgenton: the SMB share? yeah it does |
| 09:58.13 | lenswipe | sabgenton: I can't right click and click "make link" - I've tried. |
| 09:58.15 | sabgenton | ok there's probley a gnome made mount point someware |
| 09:58.35 | debianisnice | Can you enlarge the font throughout the entire system? |
| 09:58.43 | debianisnice | everything becomes bigger |
| 09:59.07 | sabgenton | cd to your home directory and type find . -iname '*gfs*' |
| 09:59.14 | lenswipe | debianisnice: yeah - there's a setting for it in the control panel - i forget where exactly |
| 09:59.17 | sabgenton | sorry |
| 09:59.21 | sabgenton | gvfs |
| 09:59.26 | lenswipe | gvfs? |
| 09:59.26 | sabgenton | typo |
| 09:59.26 | debianisnice | lenswipe: i looked |
| 09:59.30 | debianisnice | i cant find it :((((((((((((((( |
| 09:59.52 | debianisnice | I need it so badly.. the font on the browser is so small |
| 09:59.54 | lenswipe | debianisnice: should be under appearance - no? It's a long time since I used that functionality so it may have since been removed but it was there in GNOME2 |
| 10:00.03 | lenswipe | debianisnice: press Ctrl+0 in your browser. |
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| 10:00.17 | sabgenton | lenswipe: if find finds a folder with that name your shares should be in there |
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| 10:00.21 | jpinx | where's the archived repos for lenny please ? |
| 10:00.31 | sabgenton | do it inside /home/you/ |
| 10:00.37 | lenswipe | sabgenton: you mean in my home directory? |
| 10:00.45 | sabgenton | yeah |
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| 10:01.16 | lenswipe | sabgenton: find: `robert': no such file or directory |
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| 10:01.56 | sabgenton | did you change my typo to gvfs? |
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| 10:02.44 | lenswipe | sabgenton: I just saw that command |
| 10:03.10 | lenswipe | sabgenton: I got: ./.local/share/gvfs-metadata ./.gvfs and ./.cache/gvfs-burn |
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| 10:03.42 | sabgenton | have a look (even with the gui) inside .gvfs |
| 10:03.42 | hyper_ch | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/15/stealthy_linux_backdoor/ |
| 10:05.09 | lenswipe | sabgenton: empty |
| 10:05.34 | sabgenton | I'll have a look on my machine, long time since I used it |
| 10:05.37 | lenswipe | ok |
| 10:05.39 | lenswipe | thank you |
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| 10:07.55 | sabgenton | lenswipe: anyway while i do that go here https://wiki.debian.org/SAMBAClientSetup |
| 10:08.02 | sabgenton | thats the proper way to do it |
| 10:08.26 | lenswipe | ok thank you |
| 10:08.36 | sabgenton | you mount your windows share to a location say /mnt/myshare/ or /where/ever/youwant |
| 10:08.39 | sabgenton | then go there |
| 10:09.13 | sabgenton | something like sudo smbmount //192.168.2.28/projects /mnt/projects -o user=USERNAME |
| 10:09.26 | sabgenton | sorry you don't need sudo if your root |
| 10:09.46 | sabgenton | the gvfs is just a dum way to do it that comes with gnome |
| 10:10.13 | petern_ | s/dumb/easy |
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| 10:13.03 | sabgenton | lenswipe: speaking of the easyway go to the share in nautilus then see if it appears in cd ~/.gvfs/hostname |
| 10:13.22 | sabgenton | lenswipe: you have to log on in gnome first |
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| 10:16.34 | sabgenton | lenswipe: to list hosts / shares type: smbtree -N |
| 10:16.57 | sabgenton | or if you know the host smbclient -L <computer-name> |
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| 10:17.39 | debianisnice | what's the file you download to have wireless? |
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| 10:18.21 | sabgenton | .. |
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| 10:20.45 | sabgenton | debianisnice: no idea but you could use lspci to give a list of your devices if you don't know what wireless chip set you have |
| 10:21.11 | sabgenton | then google how to set up chip<X> |
| 10:22.27 | sabgenton | can any debian people tell me if theres a simlar thing to ubuntu's ppa's for get unstable packages for wheezy? |
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| 10:23.46 | sabgenton | debianisnice: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-find-wireless-driver-chipset/ |
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| 10:25.44 | babilen | dpkg: tell sabgenton -about backports |
| 10:26.01 | babilen | debianisnice: What are you trying to do exactly? |
| 10:26.05 | sabgenton | no I want sid/unstable |
| 10:26.22 | babilen | sabgenton: You would have to either track that directly or backport packages yourself. |
| 10:26.30 | babilen | (cf. "/msg dpkg ssb") |
| 10:27.04 | sabgenton | babilen: where do I find how to backport myself? |
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| 10:27.12 | babilen | "/msg dpkg ssb" |
| 10:27.17 | sabgenton | or you just mean pull the deb? |
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| 10:28.02 | babilen | Ask our bot, dpkg, about the <ssb> factoid. You do that in IRC by sending it a message with the "/msg" command. The content of the message should be "ssb" and the entire command is "/msg dpkg ssb" |
| 10:28.09 | babilen | dpkg: tell sabgenton -about irc tutorial |
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| 10:28.58 | sabgenton | nooo not the irc tutorial |
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| 10:29.02 | sabgenton | :p |
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| 10:29.25 | babilen | sabgenton: Which package do you want exactly? |
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| 10:30.46 | kaar | What resource records to i need to send by sys admin to delegate my DNS? Is it sufficient with NS record? for example (ns.example.com) |
| 10:31.03 | sabgenton | I am looking at moving to debian and runing debian for server I just want to see how easy it is to get closer to bleading edge stuff as wheezey gets closer to end of life |
| 10:31.10 | sabgenton | (vs say ubuntu) |
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| 10:32.15 | sabgenton | I recently got git annex from an ubuntu ppa and knoticed it was just from deb unstable :) |
| 10:32.17 | D-Boy | So, I want to install Debian 7 on my laptop (DeLL Latitude D620 http://www.linlap.com/dell_latitude_d620 ) Installation went smooth, but when I try to boot debian I get a black screen (backlighted) and nothing else) how can I debug this ?) I installed Debian in dual boot with Windows 7, Booting Win7 still works, but both debian normal & user mode doesn't work |
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| 10:35.23 | babilen | sabgenton: I wouldn't recommend to run production systems on a primarily self-backported platform. You will encounter various problems and if you *really* need "bleeding edge" for your servers then I would recommend using a different distribution. |
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| 10:36.13 | babilen | D-Boy: Which image did you use for the installation? Which GPU do you have? |
| 10:36.37 | babilen | D-Boy: Is it black throughout or do you see the boot loader? Do you see some messages after that? ... |
| 10:37.31 | sabgenton | babilen: people say this all the time but at the end of the day people go out of the pkg managment to get stuff. My friend runs centos and tells me it's more stable but then I find he installs rpms from all overthe place and from source to make up for centos huge lack of packages |
| 10:37.47 | D-Boy | babilen : the netinstall cd, the gpu is intel graphics 915 (I'm not sure but I can recheck on win7, I see the bootloader (grub) I choose with os to start) then I have messages scrolled, and then the backlight and nothing |
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| 10:38.24 | sabgenton | babilen: I just want a non rolling release that I can get unstable packages from ocationaly at it nears EOL |
| 10:38.56 | D-Boy | babilen : the messages was like 'waiting for /dev to populate, few lines after and the backlight |
| 10:38.57 | sabgenton | then next release yay non custom packages |
| 10:39.14 | sabgenton | again |
| 10:39.18 | brita_ | hey there. I have an AMD Radeon HD 6450, which is supposed to be capable of OpenGL4.1. glxinfo, however, reports "OpenGL version string: 1.4 (2.1 Mesa 8.0.5". how can i solve this? |
| 10:39.22 | babilen | D-Boy: Okay, that sounds as if *something* goes wrong with the KMS (kernel mode setting) -- It also sounds as if you didn't use an installer with firmware or didn't provide firmware during the installation and it might be related to that. You might want to boot with the "nomodeset" option and see if that works and, once you are booted, install firmware-linux-nonfree. That *might* take care of that. If it doesn't, we would have to dig deeper. |
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| 10:39.36 | babilen | dpkg: tell D-Boy -about kms |
| 10:40.15 | D-Boy | babilen : also FYI, when the backlight comes I can hit ctrl+alt+del and the system reboots |
| 10:40.38 | D-Boy | babilen : okey, let me try that |
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| 10:41.14 | babilen | sabgenton: Many productions systems run on Debian stable and, by the end of the day, a DNS server is a DNS server, postfix is postfix and Apache still hosts webpages. If you want a rolling distribution for a production system I think you are wrong in Debianland as Debian is about being stable. "stable" in Debian means "not changing" and nothing else and that is what we provide. |
| 10:41.40 | pfote | sabgenton: where does the need for bleeding edge come from? |
| 10:41.59 | babilen | D-Boy: Please also read the wiki page and, maybe, google for your exact GPU and "kms" or "nomodeset" or "black screen" (and combinations thereof) -- That might yield some results. |
| 10:42.30 | bluesm | Can i say that "we inherit constructors" because we have access to them ? |
| 10:42.40 | sabgenton | babilen: non I said I want a non-rolling release |
| 10:42.49 | sabgenton | no no* |
| 10:42.57 | babilen | sabgenton: Ah, yes .. you did. :) |
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| 10:42.59 | D-Boy | babilen : thanks |
| 10:43.06 | bluesm | sabgenton: To me ? |
| 10:43.16 | sabgenton | no |
| 10:43.22 | babilen | brita_: Which version of mesa do you require? |
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| 10:43.33 | babilen | judd: v libgl-mesa-dri |
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| 10:43.33 | judd | No package named 'libgl-mesa-dri' was found in i386. |
| 10:43.40 | babilen | judd: v libgl1-mesa-dri |
| 10:43.41 | judd | Package: libgl1-mesa-dri on i386 -- squeeze: 7.7.1-6; squeeze-security: 7.7.1-6; squeeze-backports: 7.10.3-4~bpo60+1; wheezy: 8.0.5-4+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 8.0.5-4+deb7u2; jessie: 9.2.2-1; sid: 9.2.2-1 |
| 10:44.08 | deiz_ | good morning, i've noticed a noticeabe pause when apper refreshes it's repositories cache? |
| 10:44.33 | deiz_ | is this a known bug? |
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| 10:45.01 | babilen | deiz_: Check on http://bugs.debian.org -- I've never used apper (and have no intention to) |
| 10:45.05 | brita_ | babilen: . I don't think mesa should be there at all. I installed the nonfree fglx drivers. If my gpu is 4.1 capable, that is what I want. instead of 1.4 |
| 10:45.29 | deiz_ | aren't you a fan of apper? |
| 10:45.34 | babilen | deiz_: I would recommend to maybe use more "standard" tools for package management. (namely apt-*) |
| 10:45.54 | babilen | deiz_: No, not at all. |
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| 10:46.26 | deiz_ | ok, but it uses the same backend right? |
| 10:46.48 | deiz_ | i will eventually use more of the shell, it's just epic to have that power and simplicity |
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| 10:48.45 | bluesm | ? |
| 10:49.02 | petern_ | Never used it, but it seems reasonable behaviour. It's cached for a reason, after all, so it seems reasonable that refreshing it would take some time. |
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| 10:49.29 | babilen | deiz_: I've neither heard of nor used apper and wouldn't personally trust it. It might be a fine piece of software, but *I* wouldn't use it. I am not using KDE and I try to stay as close to "best practices" as I can. |
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| 10:50.43 | babilen | deiz_: You might also want to provide additional details about the actual problem you encounter. If it refreshes the package cache whenever you start it and it is that behaviour that baffles you than I wouldn't be surprised. That is if it runs the equivalent of "apt-get update" whenever you start it is not surprising that it takes some time, but then it might be something else. |
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| 10:51.30 | FilipeMaia | Is there a way to capture all signals sent to a process? |
| 10:51.46 | ChrisH | FilipeMaia: from outside the process? |
| 10:51.54 | FilipeMaia | ues |
| 10:51.58 | FilipeMaia | yes |
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| 10:53.23 | FilipeMaia | strace can't do this right? |
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| 10:54.04 | FilipeMaia | maybe it can |
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| 10:56.43 | babilen | FilipeMaia: You can, naturally, change the signal handler for programs you run (look into sigaction) and there are some signals that you shouldn't catch. I am not aware of a tool that allows you to do this from outside the process though. What do you need this for? |
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| 10:57.43 | deiz_ | apt-get update works fine |
| 10:57.46 | sabgenton | babilen: does squeeze backport still get updated? |
| 10:57.49 | D-Boy | babilen : I tried the rescue mode from netinstallcd and add nomodeset to grub, that works, I can boot to debian now but I lost windows7 entry on the grub list |
| 10:59.26 | babilen | D-Boy: You didn't do what I suggested (to add "nomodeset" to grub) and it sounds as if you re-created the grub configuration. Not sure why you did that, but you can re-run the process with "update-grub2". Make sure that os-prober is installed if you want to pick up MS Windows. |
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| 10:59.39 | babilen | D-Boy: I'll be back later, all the best! |
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| 11:00.20 | D-Boy | babilen : okey have a nice day :) |
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| 11:09.03 | buu | Is there any tool that will wrap apt-get and turn queries for (say) "apt-get install libjson libjson-dev" into "libjson0 libjson0-dev" |
| 11:09.15 | buu | Because boy I'm getting tired of having to guess what random string is on the end of libraries |
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| 11:09.42 | KidCartouche | ,version nfs |
| 11:09.42 | judd | No package named 'nfs' was found in i386. |
| 11:09.46 | KidCartouche | ,version nfs-client |
| 11:09.47 | judd | No package named 'nfs-client' was found in i386. |
| 11:10.38 | brita_ | i need help setting up my graphic drivers. I have an ATI GPU, non-free drivers and mesa drivers and I don't know very well what I am acually using |
| 11:11.06 | dings | KidCartouche: nfs-common? |
| 11:11.26 | KidCartouche | dings, tahnk you :-) I was looking it up |
| 11:11.26 | sabgenton | why does debian show examples with aptitude and then say " In case of doubt, please use the apt-get and apt-cache commands over the aptitude command." |
| 11:11.41 | KidCartouche | ,version nfs-common |
| 11:11.42 | judd | Package: nfs-common on i386 -- squeeze: 1:1.2.2-4squeeze2; squeeze-backports: 1:1.2.5-4~bpo60+1; wheezy: 1:1.2.6-4; jessie: 1:1.2.8-4; sid: 1:1.2.8-4 |
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| 11:12.38 | sabgenton | buu: do you use aptitude ? |
| 11:13.00 | sabgenton | (random poll) |
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| 11:14.38 | brita_ | how do i use the fglrx drivers? |
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| 11:16.14 | buu | sabgenton: I do not |
| 11:16.43 | sabgenton | buu: any particular reason or just never needed to? |
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| 11:18.14 | D-Boy | babilen : how to set nomdeset in grub ? other than doing rescuemode from the netinstallcd ? |
| 11:18.19 | D-Boy | nomodeset* |
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| 11:27.31 | ivant | Hi, have someone heard of zram? |
| 11:27.54 | calcifea | does Wheezy mount /tmp as tmpfs by default? |
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| 11:29.38 | zee_ | anyone familiar with proftpd? Does <limit login> support ip range definition as such: 1.1.1.1/24 ? |
| 11:30.09 | buu | sabgenton: When I started with debian it didn't exist and I never saw a compelling reason to swap |
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| 11:30.45 | zee_ | or, could I use hosts.allow to define like: ftpd: 1.1.1.1/24 ? |
| 11:30.54 | buu | calcifea: I don't have /tmp mounted as a tmpfs, as I recall this was a pretty standard install |
| 11:31.33 | calcifea | buu: thanks. can you check if /etc/hostname has just the hostname in? or something like hostname="" |
| 11:32.25 | sabgenton | buu: thanks |
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| 11:34.43 | buu | calcifea: I have my specified, un-fully-qualified hostname in /etc/hostnaem |
| 11:35.05 | calcifea | buu: C: thanks |
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| 11:36.56 | babilen | D-Boy: You can hit "e" on the entry in the grub menu to edit it |
| 11:37.17 | D-Boy | babilen : yeah, my bad, i found where to add it ^^ |
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| 11:37.54 | D-Boy | babilen : now i have to install the proprietary driver i guess, the linux-firmware-nonfree does not resolve the pb |
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| 11:59.30 | Zap-W | I have a drive with Windows Dynamic Stripped Volumes, when I execute update-grub2 it fails with grub-probe: error: cannot I have a drive with Windows Dynamic Stripped Volumes, when I execute update-grub2 it fails with grub-probe: error: cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/sdb1. Check your device.map. , how do I make update-grub2 ignore /dev/sdbfind a GRUB drive for /dev/sdb1. Check your device.map. , how do I make update-grub2 igno |
| 11:59.31 | Zap-W | re /dev/sdb |
| 11:59.33 | Zap-W | because it will never be able to understand this drive |
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| 12:27.54 | calcifea | what do you use to set up your console stuff? console-setup or console-data? i don't even know why there are 2 things to do the same.. or i'm confused |
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| 12:29.19 | Iridos | calcifea, maybe apt-cache show console-data / apt-cache show console-setup would help against confusion? |
| 12:30.35 | calcifea | if you dpkg-reconfigure them |
| 12:30.38 | calcifea | you do the same things |
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| 12:33.21 | calcifea | you can see here: http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/kbd |
| 12:33.27 | calcifea | it asks to install console-setup or console-data |
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| 12:35.41 | Jckf | Hello, #debian. How do I remove a software RAID array from my system? I have removed the arrays themselves, but Grub/initrd tries to mount by mduuid, and of course fails |
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| 12:45.57 | W4RH4WK | Jckf: can you boot your current system via editing the grup entry? |
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| 12:50.52 | crane | parts of the debian page (debian.org) seems to be broken? http://packages.debian.org/en/wheezy-backports/ |
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| 12:53.59 | Jckf | W4RH4WK: I can boot in recovery mode when the drives are connected the way they used to be |
| 12:54.49 | Jckf | I'm not really trying to disable RAID. What I want to end up with is the software RAID 1 I have now being moved over to a different controller, as the one I am using is shot. |
| 12:54.55 | Jckf | So all the UUIDs are wrong |
| 12:55.16 | Jckf | My plan was do disable RAID completely, then switch the controller, and re-enable RAID with new UUIDs |
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| 12:56.47 | jhutchins_wk | Jckf: Probably just need to update-grub |
| 12:57.08 | Jckf | jhutchins_wk: That just uses the same old UUIDs for the md devices |
| 12:57.20 | mumpitzel | Jckf: use the new controller, boot a live cd, chroot into your installation and assembler your new raid, then create a new initramfs and fix your grub, all in the same chroot |
| 12:57.22 | jhutchins_wk | Jckf: Even though they're not there? |
| 12:58.17 | Jckf | jhutchins_wk: Good point. I'll check what I missed. |
| 12:58.24 | Jckf | mumpitzel: I have no live CD or USB stick |
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| 12:59.14 | mumpitzel | then get one. you need to have backups anyways |
| 12:59.23 | jhutchins_wk | Jckf: What are4 you booting to anyway? |
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| 13:00.28 | Jckf | jhutchins_wk: What do you mean? |
| 13:01.25 | Jckf | Which device is mounted as root? |
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| 13:02.24 | Jckf | Not sure. I don't know which UUIDs go where |
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| 13:05.08 | jhutchins_wk | One guesses he might be booting to one of the old raid volumes. |
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| 13:05.50 | Jckf | Probably |
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| 13:07.00 | Jckf | Shouldn't it be possbile to just use a device name instead of the UUIDs? |
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| 13:13.01 | _Fremen_ | hello everyone |
| 13:13.13 | _Fremen_ | I have a question related to installation of debian |
| 13:13.28 | jhutchins_wk | Jckf: Or a numeric identifier. It would be a good idea if you actualy knew what device was what. |
| 13:13.53 | _Fremen_ | is it possible for me to unite currently latest 4 DVD images of debian into a single USB then install through there? |
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| 13:17.12 | wibrt | does debian use sysconf? |
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| 13:19.53 | jhutchins_wk | _Fremen_: Probably more trouble than it's worth. Just do a base install then add the other packages you need. |
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| 13:20.48 | jhutchins_wk | _Fremen_: You do not need all of the images for an installation, especially if the machine will have internet access during install. |
| 13:21.11 | _Fremen_ | so I only need the first image? |
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| 13:23.50 | DammitJim | can one VNC into a machine that has just booted up and noone has logged in to it? |
| 13:24.02 | DammitJim | I thought one had to have logged in for this to work... |
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| 13:26.27 | epsilon | DammitJim: the vncserver have to run |
| 13:26.37 | jhutchins_wk | _Fremen_: Correct. |
| 13:27.08 | epsilon | as long you make sure it (auto)starts with init.d something, you can connect to it without further action/login |
| 13:27.31 | jhutchins_wk | DammitJim: It depends on the configuration of the server. Some VNC servers like XVNC can't do logins, others don't let you share an existing session and require a unique login. |
| 13:27.46 | jhutchins_wk | DammitJim: Some can be configured either way, some are very difficult to reconfigure. |
| 13:27.59 | _Fremen_ | jhutchins_wk: but in that, wouldnt I be forced to download everything else on the images from internet? |
| 13:29.11 | DammitJim | hhmmmm... thanks for the input. At least now I know it is possible. Someone was telling me that this was working right out of the box on a linux machine they had (not necessarily Debian) and they could vnc into the machine w/o having logged in to the machine as a user |
| 13:29.16 | jhutchins_wk | _Fremen_: Debian has some 30,000 packages available. I have a fairly diverse installation, it uses 1,690 of them. |
| 13:29.47 | jhutchins_wk | _Fremen_: Other images contain internationalization, server packages, packages for special projects like ltsp, etc. |
| 13:30.26 | jhutchins_wk | _Fremen_: The recommended method if you have internet access is to use the netinstall image, which is fairly small. That way you only download the packages you actually need. |
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| 13:33.42 | gueust43563 | mplayer doesn't run |
| 13:34.08 | gueust43563 | I got Cannot open file '/home/gueust43563/.mplayer/input.conf': No such file or directory |
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| 13:35.05 | Armin | gueust43563: maybe a typo at "guest" :) |
| 13:36.16 | gueust43563 | I then touched that file, and it now it start and immediately stop. |
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| 13:38.01 | relipse | I just got my first client for webhosting, what tools do I need on my machine besides PHP5, and apache? What should I get as a control panel? What about mail? |
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| 13:40.01 | bezaban | relipse: if you're offering shell access you should know what you are doing, so be careful. Other than that it's really entirely up to you, but it's a little conecerning to me that you haven't looked into this before getting clients |
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| 13:40.39 | bezaban | most options will need configuration and locking down |
| 13:40.47 | relipse | bezaban, I have several sites on my own but never hosted publicly before |
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| 13:41.00 | bezaban | relipse: that's an entirely different ballgame |
| 13:41.45 | bezaban | if possible you can chroot web servers for others or at least virtualize a host for public access |
| 13:42.15 | relipse | Is there a teeny checklist of things I need to do? |
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| 13:44.39 | bezaban | I don't have one, but I would jail/restrict the users somehow and also make sure you are only offering a bare-minimal set of utilitites to the clients. You do not want them scheduling cron jobs and/or leveraging local privilege exploits etc |
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| 13:45.21 | bezaban | also possibly some disk quota arrangment is in place |
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| 13:46.05 | bezaban | it's not just the clients that might have bad ideas, but you have no control over their potentially insecure code |
| 13:46.11 | _Fremen_ | jhutchins_wk: I understand, thank you very much :) |
| 13:46.53 | bezaban | also you should probably have some backup system in place |
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| 13:50.12 | relipse | bezaban, How do I set up my server so that no shell access is allowed, but they can SFTP? |
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| 13:51.17 | bezaban | relipse: there are multiple options, a quick google suggests scponly, rssh, mysecureshell |
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| 13:51.47 | jhutchins_wk | relipse: Avoid control panels if you possibly can, especially webmin. |
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| 13:52.09 | relipse | crap i just downloaded webmin |
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| 13:52.29 | petern_ | Delete it... |
| 13:52.50 | Iridos | aren't you a little harsh |
| 13:53.04 | relipse | I want a control panel what can I use (besides cpanel0? |
| 13:53.20 | Iridos | whenever someone wants to grant the whole world access to their servers... wouldn't it be ones first choice |
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| 13:54.33 | digdilem | relipse, alternative view: Webmin is widely used and trusted. Like any software it can be misused. Remove any modules you don't need and if you are opening it to other people, check it only gives the access you are comfortable with. People WILL try to misused whatever you provide them with |
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| 13:55.39 | digdilem | relipse, as you're effectively now a web host, you'll be understanding why many webhosts build their own tools or pay big money to cpanel etc. If you want a quiet life, get only clued customers and give them bare vms with no support |
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| 13:55.59 | Iridos | dpkg, webmin |
| 13:56.00 | dpkg | Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at http://webmin.com/ Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see http://bugs.debian.org/343897 . The Debian package from webmin.com is of poor quality. See <free whcp> for alternatives. |
| 13:56.04 | Iridos | dpkg free whcp |
| 13:56.04 | dpkg | FOSS Web Hosting Control Panels include: <DTC>, <GNUPanel>, <ISPConfig> and <ispCP> Omega. Don't use <Webmin>. http://wiki.debian.org/HostingControlPanels |
| 13:56.25 | digdilem | there is a lot of hate for it. Much of it, imo, undeserved. |
| 13:56.46 | relipse | Umm, ok so which is the most updated/supported admin tool? |
| 13:56.47 | Iridos | relipse, you can /msg dpkg gnupanel (and the other keywords in <>) |
| 13:57.29 | digdilem | relipse, I'm assuming you're providing hosts as pocket money/to help pay for your own hosting costs - rather than this being a business? |
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| 13:58.24 | relipse | yeah the hosting won't get me paid, the web programming might though |
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| 13:58.38 | bezaban | most people who do (payed) work with linux don't use panels for configuration as web pages with access to critical configurations have a terrible track record |
| 13:59.06 | relipse | Iridos, i didn't get any messages btw |
| 13:59.22 | relipse | nm got it |
| 13:59.47 | jhutchins_wk | digdilem: The main problem with it, aside from insecurity and unreliability, is that it does not make standard changes to standard configuration files, but instead modifies and stores the configuration in it's own way, so when it breaks it's often very difficult to recover the system at all. |
| 14:00.03 | bezaban | which is why the (sane) businesses who cater to less technically savvy customers always run them in a separate VM/machine |
| 14:00.28 | digdilem | jhutchins_wk, I don't argue that, but it applies to all such panels and external configuration programs when the target program changes the way it does things. |
| 14:00.30 | jhutchins_wk | Backups of course. |
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| 14:01.02 | digdilem | i do agree that commandline is the best way if you are technical and have technical users. They can always run their own panel if they want |
| 14:01.09 | digdilem | (I was assuming vm's, sorry if that's not the case) |
| 14:01.19 | relipse | these are not vms mind you |
| 14:01.20 | jhutchins_wk | digdilem: The better panels write the changes to the standard config files so you can still control them without the panel. |
| 14:01.26 | relipse | this is shared hosting |
| 14:01.34 | digdilem | if you're giving user/shell access to somebody else then you'd better trust their knowledge and intentions |
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| 14:02.14 | jhutchins_wk | I don't run separate VMs or containers, I just use the user's /home/<user>/www/ |
| 14:02.38 | digdilem | jhutchins_wk, Um - maybe that's not universal then. Whenever I have used webmin for modifications, it has modified the actual process files. Maybe the bad stuff is depending on individual modules? |
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| 14:03.15 | digdilem | i only use it now for a web friendly dhcpd config, and it does that one okay |
| 14:03.17 | relipse | jhutchins_wk, yeah thats what I was thinking |
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| 14:05.04 | mwarning | hi, what has to be done after an ITP (Intent To Package) was submitted? |
| 14:05.10 | tty-1 | I want to know if a Debian minimal system can use upstart inside a LXC system contianer. |
| 14:05.19 | tty-1 | Or it is still not mature enough for this? |
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| 14:05.39 | mwarning | Does the package in question has to be uploaded to the bug tracker? |
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| 14:09.38 | marsje | Anyone knows how to get autoindent in fte (console editor) with python files? |
| 14:10.36 | relipse | My mail() stopped working, how can i send myself a quick test email |
| 14:10.41 | relipse | and How can I fix it |
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| 14:13.40 | bezaban | relipse: echo "text" | mail user |
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| 14:18.44 | jhutchins_wk | mwarning: You might check with #debian-mentors on oftc.net - I think that's the appropriate channel. |
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| 14:19.04 | mwarning | jhutchins_wk, thx |
| 14:19.23 | jhutchins_wk | digdilem: Yes, it's inconsistent. Some of the devlopers have listened to that criticism. |
| 14:19.39 | mwarning | jhutchins_wk, the channel is invite only :> |
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| 14:19.54 | jhutchins_wk | mwarning: on oftc.net? |
| 14:19.55 | mwarning | ah. oftc.net |
| 14:19.59 | mwarning | nvm :) |
| 14:20.15 | jhutchins_wk | Yeah, there might be a more effective way of handling that, but so it goes. |
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| 14:37.35 | relipse | is there instructions for gnupanel? |
| 14:38.47 | jhutchins_wk | relipse: Does that have anything to do with your mail? |
| 14:39.09 | relipse | no separate issue ? |
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| 14:44.11 | jhutchins_wk | relipse: Panels are often not well documented, that's one of the problems with them. aptitude show gnupanel should tell you where their web site is (so can google). |
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| 14:46.37 | relipse | How do I E: Unable to locate package gnupanel |
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| 14:54.39 | babilen | relipse: gnupanel is, AFAICT, not packaged |
| 14:55.19 | relipse | My email is not working, i did: echo "test" | mail me@exampe.com test email |
| 14:55.24 | relipse | Can someone please help me |
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| 14:55.46 | relipse | i tried setting up postfix and dovecot the other day |
| 14:56.09 | petern_ | Check your log files. |
| 14:56.14 | relipse | where? |
| 14:56.30 | petern_ | /var/log |
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| 14:58.03 | ChrisH | relipse: echo "test" | mailx -v -s "testsubject" me@exampe.com will show more details on what was tried and what failed |
| 14:58.35 | relipse | mailx: invalid option -- v |
| 14:59.29 | relipse | warning: connect to mysql server 127.0.0.1: Can't connect to MySQL server on '127.0.0.1' (110) |
| 14:59.36 | relipse | that is silly |
| 14:59.49 | relipse | oh maybe i need to add my mail user?? |
| 15:00.07 | relipse | postfix/cleanup[10641]: warning: problem talking to service rewrite: Connection reset by peer |
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| 15:00.20 | relipse | warning: /usr/lib/postfix/trivial-rewrite: bad command startup -- throttling |
| 15:00.41 | arun | Guys, what should I do after my glibclocale is added in glibc |
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| 15:02.49 | ChrisH | relipse: I have no idea what you did setup, but it looks like you did a setup with MySQL involved. |
| 15:03.09 | relipse | yeah postfix and dovecot uses it |
| 15:03.21 | relipse | i followed the instructions on a linode website |
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| 15:08.22 | babilen | relipse: Well, not all of us memorise every broken tutorial on the internet and I personally use postfix and dovecot just fine without MySQL. It is obvious that your setup is broken and there is very little we can do without further information. ;) |
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| 15:13.08 | relipse | Hmm, crud, i'm getting this error: warning: 7AEED5B5F6: message has been queued for 74 days. warning: 83E0F5B5F6: virtual_alias_maps map lookup problem for root@... |
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| 15:13.24 | relipse | it flashed several times on my mail log tail |
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| 15:14.47 | martinfletcher_ | hey, on hardening a linux distro, should rdisc get removed? i understand that it is used for discovering routers on a network, but is it really needed? |
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| 15:16.19 | jhutchins_wk | relipse: https://wiki.debian.org/Postfix http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9235186/how-to-install-and-configure-a-mail-server-debian http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-debian-wheezy-apache2-bind-dovecot-ispconfig-3 |
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| 15:16.51 | petern_ | martinfletcher_, what package contains rdisc? Or are you talking kernel options? |
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| 15:19.48 | martinfletcher_ | it is a service running on my system |
| 15:20.15 | martinfletcher_ | i have a centos box, but i am 99% sure its a generic linux service |
| 15:20.26 | martinfletcher_ | hence asking here also |
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| 15:21.26 | petern_ | Never needed it on any system I use, and there's no rdisc on Debian. |
| 15:21.52 | martinfletcher_ | ok thanks |
| 15:21.55 | martinfletcher_ | :) |
| 15:21.57 | petern_ | (There's rdisc6 provided by the ndisc6 package) |
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| 15:22.23 | jhutchins_wk | martinfletcher_: Really not appropriate. The whole Centos/RedHat universe takes a very different approach to systems and packaging and does things differently. |
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| 15:22.36 | petern_ | Strange crap installed by other distributions ;p |
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| 15:23.21 | jhutchins_wk | Different distros take different approaches to the same task. That's one of the fun things about Linux, there's usually six different ways to do anything. |
| 15:23.42 | petern_ | Sounds like perl. |
| 15:23.53 | jhutchins_wk | Even ntp has at least one fork. |
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| 15:25.31 | OpenTokix | jhutchins_wk: Better in Solaris, where you know it can't be done ;) |
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| 15:26.06 | Shadur | I need a quick favor from anyone who can do a DNS lookup -- what does www.anliker.nl point to? |
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| 15:27.12 | Kobaz | ~v scponly |
| 15:27.18 | Kobaz | what's that thing for versions |
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| 15:29.43 | jhutchins_wk | Shadur: How is it you're on irc but you can't do a dns lookup? |
| 15:29.55 | jhutchins_wk | ,v scponly |
| 15:29.56 | judd | Package: scponly on i386 -- squeeze: 4.8-4.1 |
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| 15:30.11 | Shadur | jhutchins_wk: I'm not asking for myself, I'm asking for a customer that's somehow still seeing the old address even though it's been over a day since I changed it. |
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| 15:30.34 | relipse | I'm getting this fatal postfix error: Nov 15 15:27:10 srv postfix/trivial-rewrite[10810]: fatal: proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_domains.cf(0,lock|fold_fix): table lookup problem |
| 15:30.34 | relipse | , any ideas/ |
| 15:30.38 | Shadur | I'm seeing it fine; my home connection sees it fine, I'm asking for a quick second opinion so I can tell her "I'm 100% certain it's you." |
| 15:30.52 | wes_incredible | Use mxtoolbox.com to do an external DNS lookup (or any of the many such sites) |
| 15:30.56 | rozie | Shadur: 83.137.17.70 |
| 15:31.27 | linuxthefish | hi, which download do i use to make it like a VPS? |
| 15:31.33 | wes_incredible | 83.137.17.70 |
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| 15:31.56 | rozie | Shadur: if you have some other - probably DNS cache involved |
| 15:32.18 | arun | Guys please say me some steps on how can I add a new unexisting language in the system ?? |
| 15:32.36 | linuxthefish | i just need Debian 7 with complete kernal :( |
| 15:32.49 | mtn | arun: haven't you been asking the same question for several days now? |
| 15:32.52 | rozie | linuxthefish: what kind of VPS? |
| 15:32.59 | linuxthefish | KVM |
| 15:33.06 | linuxthefish | hosted on my own machine in HyperV |
| 15:34.01 | arun | mtn: yes !!! , I haven't got any good answers nor a reply from the mailing list !!! |
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| 15:34.03 | arun | :( |
| 15:34.10 | linuxthefish | no GUI, all seem to have gui man |
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| 15:34.39 | mtn | arun: I saw you get correct answer even if you didn't like it ;) you just need to be patient I think. |
| 15:34.55 | Razkin | Xorg is using 300+ RAM, therefore making my RAM usage over 600+, I have only 2GB ram. my system is hanging, my system consumed only 200mb yesterday, how can I stop Xorg from consuming a large amount of RAM? |
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| 15:35.04 | mtn | linuxthefish: the netinstall is small and has no gui if you don't want it |
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| 15:36.09 | arun | mtn: I am very much in delima , what to do , should I need to add a locale file to the glibc or configure it in my own PC ;( |
| 15:36.32 | rozie | exactly, any default image will be fine for running inside KVM. netinstall recommended |
| 15:36.52 | mtn | arun: no point in asking the same question when you already know the answer. I don't think you will get a better answer than you already has been given. |
| 15:37.39 | arun | mtn: should ; U mean I need to submit the glib locale to the glibc |
| 15:37.53 | arun | *locale def to the glibc |
| 15:38.20 | arun | mtn: I have submitted that , but how do I use it ;) |
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| 15:39.01 | jhutchins_wk | arun: http://www.debian.org/international/ see "Adding support for a new language" |
| 15:39.14 | jhutchins_wk | arun: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/intro-i18n/ |
| 15:39.25 | jhutchins_wk | arun: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/l10n.html |
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| 15:40.17 | arun | jhutchins_wk: oh thank you very much for that sir !!! |
| 15:40.32 | jhutchins_wk | arun: It may not be all the answers you need, but good luck. |
| 15:40.51 | arun | jhulst: thank u very much for that |
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| 15:46.04 | Thaxll | Hello, is there a way to dump the dentry cache from the kernel? |
| 15:46.30 | babilen | arun: Did you see the reply https://lists.debian.org/debian-i18n/2013/11/msg00023.html ? |
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| 15:47.09 | arun | babilen: the site is not opening here |
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| 15:48.07 | babilen | arun: In particular the thread starting at https://lists.debian.org/debian-i18n/2013/07/msg00057.html ? -- Note that this is *Debian* specific and would not constitute a new locale and program translations. It would "merely" add support for the installer and other Debian specific components (which would be great) |
| 15:48.20 | babilen | arun: What happens when you try to open it? |
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| 15:48.45 | arun | babilen: yes now fixed when I removed https |
| 15:48.50 | babilen | arun: Well, you asked on the i18n mailing list as suggested by me earlier and you received a reply .. Did you take a look at the earlier thread? |
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| 15:49.47 | babilen | arun: I'm just not involved with i18n and therefore recommended to ask them about it. jhutchins_wk's links seem to be a good/great start too, but that thread might clear up some questions too. |
| 15:49.51 | arun | babilen: which threat?? this one ?? yes I had looked at it but can't understand that thing |
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| 15:50.51 | babilen | arun: Read https://lists.debian.org/debian-i18n/2013/07/msg00058.html and wait for alioth to come back online again (shouldn't take more than 2-3 days) -- might be that it's the "intro-i18n" manual linked earlier. |
| 15:51.36 | arun | babilen: oh btw what is alioth thing? |
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| 15:52.49 | ragedragon | Hello the room, |
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| 15:53.35 | ragedragon | Do you know please how to pass into debian/rules a configure option ? |
| 15:54.01 | Razkin | is debian still king? |
| 15:54.19 | ragedragon | tried DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='.....' but it seems that it is not taken in consideration... |
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| 15:54.48 | babilen | dpkg: tell arun about alioth |
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| 15:55.11 | ragedragon | Razkin: for me ...hmmm yes :) |
| 15:55.53 | boudiccas | i'm trying to get mrtg working and i want to use it to monitor memory using the perl script in the examples, but where do I place it please? |
| 15:56.02 | Gibraltar | My software RAID 1 had a drive failure (sda, out of sda and sdb). I have removed the failed sda, but the system will not boot to sdb. How can I boot from the remaining drive? |
| 15:56.28 | arun | so, babilen should I need to send the locale file to the glibc for localization ?? |
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| 15:59.00 | db12 | hi to all.. am not sure if am asking this in right section .. sorry if am doing so.. i have been facin an error box before my login screen saying "Cannot apply stored configuration for monitors:Error at line 1 char 1 :Document is empty or it contains empty spaces " have searched a lot of forums ..tried various steps .. could not get any proper solutions.. .. |
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| 16:01.41 | babilen | arun: You are talking about many difference things. A locale is not only about translations, but also about defining certain cultural specific things (e.g. time formats, measurements, ...). Then programs might want to output localised strings (from .po files) for which these programs must ship the localisations, but you would need the locale to localise *into* first. This is, AFAIUI, to be integrated at the glibc level. |
| 16:02.00 | zykotick9 | db12: i seem to recall this issue from yesterday? but was it in #ubuntu? |
| 16:02.15 | db12 | its in kali linux |
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| 16:02.45 | zykotick9 | db12: ask in #kali-linux then! |
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| 16:03.12 | babilen | arun: Apart from that you have support within *Debian* specific tools, such as the installer, for additional languages. Help here would certainly be wonderful and appreciated and would have to be coordinated with Debian's i18n team. What you are really planning and your resources to achieve that is unclear to me and I am also not too familiar with the details of this process. |
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| 16:04.15 | babilen | arun: My recommendation would be to read the i18n documentation jhutchins_wk linked earlier and then to work on getting a new language into the installer. You will have a much better idea about what you can do and how to do it by the time you finish 100% integration of "the" into the Debian installer and you can take it from there. |
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| 16:05.45 | arun | babilen: Ok, bro that was a good help and couselling for me !!! Thank u very much, I will 1st read the things untill the server is ready for the activities, thank a lot |
| 16:05.46 | babilen | arun: If you cannot wait on IRC for more than two/three hours you might want to communicate primarily via mail as a lot of the development channels (e.g. #debian-i18n) are much slower than high-frequency channels as this one. You essentially ask a question and then idle for a couple of *hours*. |
| 16:06.23 | arun | yeah |
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| 16:07.48 | babilen | arun: The best thing to do would be to start with something very small first, like offering a new language in the installer selection. You can then start to coordinate translations of the various strings used and try to achieve 100% coverage by the time we release jessie. Defining a new locale is a much more involved (and long term) process that might be harder to coordinate and you probably need a much better understanding of the process if you ... |
| 16:07.54 | babilen | ... start to tackle that. |
| 16:08.25 | regreddit | Anyone here use infinality for better font rendering? |
| 16:08.31 | babilen | arun: I simply think that getting started with something small and achievable would provide a better way into the wonderful world of i18n and i10n. I wish you all the best and can only recommend to read the documentation. |
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| 16:09.40 | arun | babilen: ok , and by the way when is jessie releasing ?? |
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| 16:10.13 | zykotick9 | !tell db12 about based on debian |
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| 16:13.04 | relipse | How painless is it to upgrade squeeze to wheezy without breaking anything? |
| 16:13.15 | ChibaPet | Fairly painless. |
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| 16:13.54 | maxyz | arun: When is ready. In 2015, most probably |
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| 16:14.19 | arun | maxdml: oh |
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| 16:14.49 | toresbe | Hey folks! I have a quick question; I'm trying to set up centralised user authentication. What is the preferred method for this nowadays? |
| 16:15.00 | ChibaPet | toresbe: Active Directory |
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| 16:15.20 | ChibaPet | toresbe: Or, less distastefully, Kerberos or OpenLDAP. |
| 16:15.25 | toresbe | ChibaPet: In an almost exclusively Linux environment? |
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| 16:15.45 | ChibaPet | toresbe: I've seen a couple, honestly, yes. But look at Kerberos and OpenLDAP first. |
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| 16:16.13 | toresbe | ChibaPet: cool, thanks. What are the differences between the two, in your judgement? |
| 16:16.18 | ChibaPet | toresbe: With Centrify, the AD ends up not being too actively horrifying. |
| 16:16.27 | toresbe | :) |
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| 16:17.13 | ChibaPet | toresbe: Kerberos is well-tested and provides an inherent notion of privilege forwarding. OpenLDAP is anecdotally fragile but probably more popular nowadays. (Amusingly, AD does Kerberos as well.) |
| 16:17.36 | Gibraltar | I have managed to get to the Grub rescue prompt, but my software RAID partitions are not recogniced. ls just gives me "unknown filesystem". How can I boot? |
| 16:17.38 | toresbe | ChibaPet: Sorry, "privilege forwarding"? |
| 16:18.13 | ChibaPet | I tend to use local accounts with something like Puppet on my own stuff, but I'd probably look to Kerberos first. I'm not sure how you'd want to do Radius integration for devices that don't speak Kerberos natively. |
| 16:18.18 | toresbe | ChibaPet: I googled around, and most guides for Kerberos were from around 2005 - hey, that was my first debconf, good memories. :) Things have changed since then, so it's nice to check in with people. |
| 16:18.59 | tty-1 | There are some warning messages during init of a debian wheezy inside a lxc container. mount: permission denied. Last time I asked how to find out what caused the error. But there was no way to find out for me yet, what devices are causing it. |
| 16:19.10 | ChibaPet | toresbe: Kerberos gives you a ticket that's good for a while. Think of sudo letting you run without a password prompt for five minutes after you authenticate. Kerberos does something similar, and it can include things like sshing into a new host. |
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| 16:19.24 | toresbe | ChibaPet: aha, I see, interesting |
| 16:19.36 | ChibaPet | tty-1: LXC is absolutely broken in Wheezy. Unusable as shipped. Go look at the bug for workarounds. Let me find the number for oyu. |
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| 16:20.39 | toresbe | ChibaPet: thanks a lot for your input! |
| 16:21.09 | flami | so containers completely broken? |
| 16:21.23 | ChibaPet | tty-1: Bug#680469 |
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| 16:21.48 | ChibaPet | flami: You can also look at Bug#680469 - it's not so much that the technology is broken as that the Debian maintainer completely failed to do his job for the Wheezy release. |
| 16:22.06 | ChibaPet | The bug includes at least one usable workaround. |
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| 16:22.09 | ChibaPet | report |
| 16:22.45 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: this is good |
| 16:22.50 | ChibaPet | LXC worked during Squeeze and the lazy maintainer failed to make sure it worked for Wheezy despite having advanced notice. I hear it works in Jessie without problems, but I haven't tried it. |
| 16:22.54 | flami | also you can use kerberos with an ldap backend. but I use ldap with pam and nss and nscd on my virtual machines for single sign on |
| 16:22.57 | flami | works well |
| 16:23.03 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: and then they remove openvz support. |
| 16:23.06 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: very bad |
| 16:23.19 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: one looses one tech and gets another one which doesn't work |
| 16:23.31 | ChibaPet | tty-1: Well, OpenVZ required heavyweight kernel changes that haven't made it into the mainline, so that was a lot of work, especially with LXC looming. |
| 16:23.35 | flami | yep I'm probably gonna use the proxmox kernel |
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| 16:24.10 | flami | which basically is the rhel kernel with openvz |
| 16:24.31 | maxdml | yes arun ? :p |
| 16:24.34 | ChibaPet | tty-1: FWIW, I'm going to figure out how I want to navigate the LXC breakage soon because I need to deploy containers soon, and I want to try that before backing off and using FreeBSD or Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. |
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| 16:24.52 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: I got the exact same problem |
| 16:25.04 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: I got the lxc container finally running but those warning messages shouldn't be ignored |
| 16:25.05 | martinfletcher_ | hey all, anyone know what the rightboot service is? |
| 16:25.08 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: maybe I could help you :) |
| 16:25.10 | ChibaPet | tty-1: Everyone who tries will get that exact same problem. Amazing that it hasn't been fixed. |
| 16:25.14 | flami | ChibaPet: proxmox , its debian with openvz |
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| 16:25.29 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: I figured out a solution using multistrap with hooks |
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| 16:25.43 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: it is still unfinished |
| 16:25.54 | tty-1 | ChibaPet: why haven't they finished the lxc support for wheezy |
| 16:25.59 | ChibaPet | flami: Interesting. I think it might be better to get comfortable with LXC since the Wheezy problem has nothing to do with LXC itself, and LXC is supported in the base kernel. |
| 16:26.10 | flami | It's gonna be fun to migrate my squeeze box to proxmox ... |
| 16:26.15 | ChibaPet | tty-1: Write to the package maintainer. Who knows? It's one guy. |
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| 16:26.38 | ChibaPet | There's also Xen, remember. Heavier by far but it works well. |
| 16:26.46 | flami | the problem with LXC is that I think its not quite as good at isolating containers from the host as openvz is. Not yet at least |
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| 16:27.06 | ChibaPet | flami: Do you have references? I believe existing breakouts have been resolved, but I could be wrong. |
| 16:27.18 | ChibaPet | And if I'm wrong I'd really like to kno. |
| 16:27.20 | ChibaPet | know |
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| 16:27.48 | flami | dunno, last I heard there were some stuff that needed to get into mainline first . to isolate host root from container root. |
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| 16:28.16 | flami | On the other hand its been a while . I can't remember |
| 16:28.40 | ChibaPet | I didn't turn anything up on searching for that exact thing, yesterday. |
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| 16:29.01 | ChibaPet | But I don't trust my search, of course. If you find anything definitive I'd like to know. |
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| 16:29.27 | tty-1 | you can always break out of some vm |
| 16:29.40 | tty-1 | but it is different hard |
| 16:29.53 | tty-1 | in ubuntu they use apparmor for better confinement of lxc container |
| 16:30.02 | tty-1 | there is a svirt driver for lxc, too |
| 16:30.14 | ChibaPet | hm |
| 16:30.39 | tty-1 | unfortunately the lxc version in debian stable doesn't support lxc-halt for a clean shutdown |
| 16:30.44 | tty-1 | so also not functional here |
| 16:30.52 | flami | see, thats the beauty of openvz, you don't need to mess around with a bazillion priviledges to get your container secured. I guess that's also why its such a huge patch |
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| 16:31.34 | tty-1 | flami: as I read the OpenVZ is trying to get as much features as possible into linux kernel mainline |
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| 16:31.54 | ChibaPet | Got to drive in to work - I'll catch up once I'm there. Cheers! |
| 16:31.58 | flami | yes . but that's been a project for the last 5 years or so hehe. |
| 16:31.59 | martinfletcher_ | anyone know what the rightboot service is? |
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| 16:32.13 | flami | whats a rightboot? |
| 16:32.39 | tty-1 | I mean, it is a linux, an *nix system. Why can't simply run it inside a chroot / lxc container / openvz without any modification? |
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| 16:33.14 | tty-1 | For example, Debian udev already detects a chroot environment, so why not add this feature to hardware clock thing and so on, too? |
| 16:33.18 | flami | because, chroot doesn't do anything to isolate you from the rest of the system |
| 16:33.29 | flami | all it does is set a different / path |
| 16:33.37 | martinfletcher_ | i havnt a clue, its a service running on my box and i dont know what it is, cant even find anything on the net about it |
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| 16:33.50 | tty-1 | flami: the separation of kernel, userspace and hardware-userspace stuff should be improved |
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| 16:34.04 | flami | thats what lxc trys to do |
| 16:34.11 | tty-1 | flami: there should be one runlevel more just for userspace-hardware stuff which one can skip when in lxc container |
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| 16:34.32 | tty-1 | flami: but when the system which should run inside the lxc container has to be modified, there is still something left |
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| 16:35.33 | flami | userspace-hardware stuff? wha? |
| 16:35.44 | tty-1 | flami: hardware clock stuff, fsck checking |
| 16:35.58 | flami | oh right. |
| 16:36.01 | tty-1 | flami: which all will break / block / fail inside a lxc container but are a category for themselves |
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| 16:36.21 | flami | no idea , never had a problem with openvz . |
| 16:36.36 | tty-1 | flami: because the openvz template scripts are better (much better) |
| 16:36.51 | tty-1 | flami: but modification is necessary |
| 16:37.23 | Sebboh | Hi. Seems like #debian-next is +i. dpkg failed on prerm for a packge. Failed to stop the service. Well, yeah, I had already stopped it. :) So, I edited the prerm ... How do I pick up the apt-get dist-upgrade where I left off? :/ |
| 16:37.25 | flami | well . then you go ahhead and uhmm propose a new runlevel to be implemented for containers . |
| 16:37.27 | Stygia | Hey. |
| 16:37.36 | Stygia | Anyone know if there's a way to install the manpages without installing the rest of a package? |
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| 16:38.04 | tty-1 | flami: First I have to get debian wheezy running without warnings inside a lxc container. :) |
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| 16:38.09 | Stygia | In my mind, it's an alternative to using an online manpage site - I have a package installed on another system, but don't want it on my development box. Somehow, I'd love to read the manpages for it (in this case squid) without installing it. |
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| 16:38.21 | tty-1 | flami: Do you know if Debian Wheezy inside LXC supports udev, too? |
| 16:38.24 | tty-1 | flami: I mean systemd |
| 16:38.31 | Stygia | I'd really rather not use less from a terminal, as that doesn't really give me the easy and comfort of reading a manpage with man. |
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| 16:38.41 | Sebboh | stygia, isn't there a package that includes all the man pages? |
| 16:38.53 | Stygia | Sebboh, There is? Let me have a look |
| 16:38.59 | zykotick9 | Stygia: not an answer, but you might find http://manpages.debian.net/cgi-bin/man.cgi helpful? |
| 16:39.30 | Stygia | Ah, no I have no problem reading them in my browser. |
| 16:39.40 | flami | tty-1: nooo idea. I only know stuff that I had a problem with. |
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| 16:39.52 | tty-1 | flami: you got your lxc container up and running now? |
| 16:39.54 | Stygia | I use DuckDuckGo and it abstracts it with !man <program>, I was just hoping I could somehow say man <program> from a shell without installing the package. |
| 16:40.19 | tty-1 | Stygia: linux.die.net |
| 16:40.22 | flami | tty-1: I don't use lxc. I use the openvz and gotta migrate to proxmox at some point |
| 16:40.34 | tty-1 | Stygia: with die is a game cube meant btw |
| 16:40.51 | tty-1 | flami: but both would require a modified linux kernel, right? |
| 16:41.02 | zykotick9 | Stygia: i believe the man pages are in the various packages... so i kinda doubt you'll be able to install them, without installing the real package (or jumping through a lot of hoops) best of luck. |
| 16:41.12 | flami | Stygia: maybe you can build the documentation with dpkg-buildpackage alone |
| 16:41.15 | Sebboh | I think that dpkg --configure -a was the answer to my question. |
| 16:41.17 | Stygia | tty-1, I already know where to read them online. |
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| 16:41.32 | Stygia | zykotick9, Fair enough. |
| 16:41.39 | Stygia | I'll probably end up building a program for this, then. |
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| 16:42.10 | Stygia | That just fetches an up-to-date online manpage (depending on distro maybe), but basically just a links with automatic searching online... |
| 16:42.12 | Stygia | maybe eman or something. |
| 16:42.24 | flami | tty-1: openvz is a kernelpatch , mostly for the rhel kernel. proxmox uses the rhel kernel and debian on top . plus their stuff to make virtual machines easier to manage |
| 16:42.26 | Stygia | Hah, much also means "faith" in Arabic. Don't know how that's revelant. |
| 16:42.36 | Stygia | *eman also |
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| 16:43.02 | tty-1 | Stygia: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/41471/view-man-page-of-not-installed-package / http://askubuntu.com/questions/125982/can-i-get-man-pages-without-installing-the-corresponding-packages |
| 16:43.16 | Sebboh | flami: generally you'd need the source of each, and building documentation is occasionally hard to separate from building the package... I know I saw a big package of debian manuals somewhere. I assumed that the content was harvested from a build environment. It would be prohibitavely troublesome to get a large collection of manuals in another way. |
| 16:43.39 | tty-1 | flami: ah, so proxmox is something like vmware esx |
| 16:43.48 | flami | oh all the manpages? |
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| 16:44.00 | Sebboh | ... wait, it doesn't have to be a build environment, it could be the binary repo. Duh, I always forget we ship bins. :P |
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| 16:44.12 | Sebboh | wanders off |
| 16:44.31 | zykotick9 | tty-1: thanks, debman is neat. Stygia i was WRONG! |
| 16:45.16 | flami | tty-1: yes its basically debian, and you can chose to either have a kvm or openvz virtual machine. it supports a lot of advanced stuff like live migrating vms etc ( which I think lxc can't do yet, but openvz does( |
| 16:46.08 | tty-1 | flami: but when you want a vserver, your provider has to provide the right preinstalled kernel / operating system for proxmox, right? |
| 16:46.46 | mumpitzel | !proxmox |
| 16:46.48 | dpkg | Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <OpenVZ> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support |
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| 16:46.54 | flami | is your vserver an actual vm or a container? if you can't install your own kernel you can't use it. |
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| 16:46.59 | mumpitzel | tty-1: that's what proxmox is |
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| 16:47.11 | mumpitzel | flami: you need to ask in a different place |
| 16:47.24 | tty-1 | flami: the vserver is based on KVM |
| 16:47.27 | flami | I am not asking :P |
| 16:47.37 | tty-1 | flami: luckily. Because before they used XEN with paravirt which means that the kernel is fixed |
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| 16:47.57 | flami | then you can install whatever in a kvm. even windows. |
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| 16:48.53 | flami | you could even go so far and install gnu-hurd in kvm. I think its the only place you can get it to run hehehe. |
| 16:49.02 | Stygia | Huh, cool. Now to see if I can make it work with debman. :) |
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| 16:49.10 | tty-1 | flami: cool |
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| 16:49.23 | tty-1 | flami: so it is just for convenience when they provide a preinstalled os |
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| 16:50.41 | Stygia | tty-1, Do you happen to know how to use debman? I do debman -p squid squid, apparently according to instructions, but nothing happens. I cannot run man squid after. |
| 16:50.52 | flami | yes. also its hard to install something in a vm without you having access to the machine. moreover you can install debian and ask the proxmox peeps how to convert it (or read their wiki( |
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| 16:51.55 | tty-1 | flami: I install Debian using pxe netboot + preseed, but this wouldn't be possible with a remote server (how should it pxe out for example) |
| 16:52.10 | tty-1 | flami: this is good, so I can even install the newest debian without any switching ip addresses |
| 16:52.21 | tty-1 | Stygia: probably there is some cache to be updated for it |
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| 16:53.51 | flami | tty-1: I doubt that they give you kvm over the internet access to your vm ,so I guess you gotta go with what they let you install. (if you want bsd there's depenguinator ) |
| 16:54.27 | flami | kvm as in keyboard and monitor . |
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| 16:55.19 | LoneStar99 | trying to "apt-get install php5-readline" but package is not available... |
| 16:55.50 | tty-1 | flami: but a distribution upgrade (squeeze -> wheezy) would be possible ,right? |
| 16:56.02 | maxyz | ,v php5-readline |
| 16:56.04 | judd | Package: php5-readline on i386 -- jessie: 5.5.5+dfsg-1; sid: 5.5.5+dfsg-1 |
| 16:56.15 | flami | tty-1: debian can upgrade itself easily |
| 16:56.44 | maxyz | LoneStar99: ^ that package is available in jessie and unstable |
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| 16:57.05 | tty-1 | flami: so no problems here, right? |
| 16:57.14 | tty-1 | flami: What I want to do is KVM nesting |
| 16:57.20 | tty-1 | flami: because the VServer runs already on KVM |
| 16:58.56 | flami | I know that IBM system Z allows vms in vms, not sure about kvm. go read up on that. also your performance will probably be bad. better go with containers ( I like containers for their speed) |
| 16:59.08 | flami | tty-1: --^ |
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| 17:00.55 | LoneStar99 | maxyz: ok doing a "dpkg -i php5-readline_5.5.5+dfsg-1_amd64.deb" but the dependicies on my server are out dated, what is the fastest way to upgrade all the dependicies on my server? |
| 17:01.01 | tty-1 | flami: yes |
| 17:01.03 | tty-1 | flami: you are right |
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| 17:03.13 | maxyz | LoneStar99: jessie is not stable to be in a production server. |
| 17:03.45 | LoneStar99 | oh I am using |
| 17:04.09 | LoneStar99 | debian 3.2.39-2 x86_64 |
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| 17:04.13 | Zuhaitz | Hi, I am in Gnome 3, under Debian, and I am trying to share wifi with the ethernet but I cant CLICK OPTIONS in Ethetnet, the option button is grey, not black, it doesn't happen with Wifi, neither in Eth and Wifi in another Computer with Ubuntu and gnom |
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| 17:04.29 | Zuhaitz | I already answred in gnome channel but it only happens with debian not in ubuntu |
| 17:04.44 | maxyz | LoneStar99: But, if you still want to do that, add the jessie archive to your sources.list (/etc/apt/sources.list) |
| 17:05.00 | maxyz | And use apt to solve the dependencies |
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| 17:06.19 | maxyz | LoneStar99: That's a kernel version and the arch. You are wondering why amd64 and not x86_64? |
| 17:06.37 | maxyz | LoneStar99: Short answer, historical reasons. |
| 17:07.16 | LoneStar99 | yeah |
| 17:07.23 | mumpitzel | maxyz: do not advise people to mix stable and testing or unstable |
| 17:07.44 | mumpitzel | LoneStar99: ignore maxyz. and you don't seem to use debian |
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| 17:08.28 | LoneStar99 | mumpitzel: using 7.0 |
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| 17:08.41 | tty-1 | flami: So I got a debian wheezy system running inside a lxc container (somehow stable). There are still mount: permission denied errors during start up (init). How can I find out what devices caused it? |
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| 17:09.07 | mumpitzel | LoneStar99: if you really really need php5-readline you can backport it maybe |
| 17:09.13 | mumpitzel | !tell LoneStar99 about ssb |
| 17:09.39 | flami | tty-1: mount? that sounds like you try to mount a /etc/fstab and don't have permissions. don't know where to turn that off |
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| 17:11.25 | tty-1 | flami: hm, good point. But I get 8 of those errors. |
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| 17:11.41 | tty-1 | flami: etc is soft symlinked to proc (following some tutorial) |
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| 17:12.13 | LoneStar99 | mumpitzel: yeah kinda need to use readline for some code I did not write... |
| 17:12.17 | flami | tty-1: *shrug* nooo idea. there's a reason I use openvz . hehehe |
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| 17:13.21 | LoneStar99 | ok brb in 5 |
| 17:13.55 | tty-1 | flami: yes, sad that they quit support for it and don't provide any alternative to it |
| 17:13.58 | tty-1 | *for it |
| 17:14.24 | flami | tty-1: you can install the proxmox kernel and keep the debian userspace. should work |
| 17:14.42 | flami | tty-1: actually if it does work, tell me. I gotta do that soon(tm) |
| 17:15.13 | tty-1 | flami: sounds very interesting, I will take a look at this |
| 17:15.23 | flami | also I seem to have found a recent presentation about the problems lxc has at the moment . http://www.slideshare.net/kolyshkin/seven-problems-of-linux-containers |
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| 17:23.34 | debnewbie | hello. i am new to debian. a friend of mine uses gentoo, and told me about "systemd is bad" i didnt understand why, he said there is much discussion going on about systemd at the moment. can someone explain this to me? |
| 17:23.46 | Zuhaitz | Hi, I am in Gnome 3, under Debian, and I am trying to share wifi with the ethernet but I cant CLICK OPTIONS in Ethetnet, the option button is grey, not black, it doesn't happen with Wifi, neither in Eth and Wifi in another Computer with Ubuntu and gnom |
| 17:23.47 | Zuhaitz | I already answred in gnome channel but it only happens with debian not in ubuntu |
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| 17:25.11 | debnewbie | Zuhaitz: maybe you need to be root to allow to share the interface? not sure though |
| 17:25.34 | Zuhaitz | no... |
| 17:25.46 | flami | debnewbie: because people hate change . that's why systemd is bad. here watch the completely impartial presentation form the systemd creator http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyMLi8QF6sw . |
| 17:26.01 | Zuhaitz | I am user in Gnome Shell Ubuntu and it works, it happens in Gnome Shell Debian, maybe I miss some package, but I dont know :( |
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| 17:27.56 | flami | debnewbie: once you saw the video .decide for yourself if you like systemd |
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| 17:28.25 | anoob | my gnome 3 keeps freezing. i would like to create a bug report but i'm not sure what should i report. maybe it's a video issue, maybe its gnome's fault. which information should i provide? |
| 17:28.40 | debnewbie | flami: thank you, i guess that is exactly what i needed. hopefully i will understand the whole thing better afterwards :) |
| 17:29.45 | debnewbie | Zuhaitz: maybe ubuntu puts the normal user in the network group automatically and in debian not? so maybe checking your groups or try as root? |
| 17:30.00 | flami | debnewbie: between us, I think systemd has plenty of good ideas, but don't tell anyon. its just great to rant about init systems . |
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| 17:30.29 | debnewbie | hehe |
| 17:30.33 | peterrooney | debnewbie: I have tried to follow along on debian-devel - as I understand it, the objections are it is exceptionally complex, opaque to a newcomer, and the problems it solves are minor. |
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| 17:31.06 | mumpitzel | or put another way: like all the software from these guys: good idea, shit implementation |
| 17:31.07 | peterrooney | flami: no fooling. my inbox is straining under the load of the discussion. |
| 17:31.37 | flami | I bet that writing correct shell scripts for sysv init isn't much more accessible than writing configs for systemd |
| 17:31.40 | jandrusk | debnewbie: The biggest issue I see with systemd is them using binary logging. |
| 17:31.57 | jandrusk | That's just evil. |
| 17:32.59 | jandrusk | Unless of course they have changed it to ASCII logging since I last checked. |
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| 17:33.23 | flami | OH yeah. also what's bad about system D is the developer. he made that sound thing that everyone hates. man do I hate that guy and his code and uhhmm where was I? |
| 17:33.55 | flami | ahhh ranting. Love it. |
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| 17:34.39 | CyberDomovoy | hi there |
| 17:34.59 | mumpitzel | flami: I wonder if you ever have anything debian related to contribute in here |
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| 17:35.09 | debnewbie | and what is currently used, i mean: what will systemd replace? |
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| 17:36.05 | flami | debnewbie: SysV init |
| 17:36.29 | debnewbie | thank you, i am going to read about this too |
| 17:37.02 | flami | its basically a whole lot of shell scripts with LSB headers to get them into the right order. I believe squeeze implemented dependency based boot |
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| 17:38.51 | CyberDomovoy | so, i have this stupid need of running a shell script instead of init (with 'init=/myscript' kernel option), that works ok, excepted that i need to get some input from the user, and 'read -p "input: " user_input' never seem to get any input. if i use 'init=/bin/bash' and try the same thing in the resulting console, all is well. Any idea why it doesn't work from the script? |
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| 17:39.32 | flami | debnewbie: --^ and --> I think in Lenny ,people were encouraged or strongly to write the LSB headers in their init scripts. SysV init is called that because it is based on the Unix System V init process. |
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| 17:40.21 | debnewbie | flami: okay :) |
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| 17:41.14 | mumpitzel | CyberDomovoy: maybe the script allocates no terminal? |
| 17:41.20 | jandrusk | Here's a nice quote that sums it up: "Lennart, your crappy systemd killed the possibility to have a separate /usr volume. A binary log can't be processed by classic text-processing Unix utilities. Your works kill the Unix-way, so please stop your harmful activity." |
| 17:41.24 | flami | mumpitzel: see debian related. HAH! |
| 17:41.32 | CyberDomovoy | mumpitzel: how do i check that? |
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| 17:41.55 | mumpitzel | CyberDomovoy: not sure. maybe try bash -c exec <your script> ? |
| 17:42.40 | alusion | im installing debian on sda3, I have debian on sda1 |
| 17:42.47 | alusion | should I install grub boot loader to master boot record |
| 17:42.56 | alusion | or can I just update grub from booting into my sda1 debian |
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| 17:44.16 | mumpitzel | alusion: install without grub. run os-proper on your sda1 debian. it should pick up the new one |
| 17:44.17 | letbind | how do I suggest a package for inclusion in debian |
| 17:44.26 | letbind | is there a good tutorial building a .deb |
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| 17:44.48 | letbind | I am thinking of building a .deb for Oddmuse wiki engine |
| 17:44.51 | mumpitzel | if that doesn't work, then install grub to sda3 not the mbr for sda3 debian. /msg dpkg fixboot to check out how |
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| 17:46.28 | SamSagaZ | hi guys |
| 17:46.34 | mumpitzel | !tell letbind about nmg |
| 17:46.53 | SamSagaZ | guys, its the latest Linux debian 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.51-1 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 17:47.02 | SamSagaZ | i downloaded yesterday an debian .iso |
| 17:47.20 | SamSagaZ | and installed it, but looks like my apt sources are not downloading the latest binary files |
| 17:47.34 | mumpitzel | !tell SamSagaZ about wheezy sources.list |
| 17:47.41 | mumpitzel | check if this is in your sources.list |
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| 17:48.32 | jhutchins_wk | ,kernels |
| 17:48.34 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.12-rc7-686-pae (3.12~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 3.11-2-686-pae (3.11.8-1); jessie: 3.10-3-686-pae (3.10.11-1); wheezy-backports: 3.10-0.bpo.3-686-pae (3.10.11-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.51-1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.46-1+deb7u1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze4) |
| 17:49.46 | jhutchins_wk | SamSagaZ: That is the current stable kernel. What did you think should be different? |
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| 17:50.36 | SamSagaZ | well, i used source.list from my country, is possible that are not updated? |
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| 17:50.43 | SamSagaZ | changed now for original debian ones |
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| 17:51.05 | gbit | Hello, how can I make a group of local users that only can send/receive email from my local domain? |
| 17:52.34 | debnewbie | can i use ~ in my .xinitrc to do things in my home directory, or does xinitrc get executed as another user id as mine upon start up? |
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| 17:55.25 | jandrusk | letbind: DebianPackagingHowTo > https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian |
| 17:55.43 | debianisnice | . |
| 17:55.59 | debianisnice | anyone in here have debian installed on macosx? |
| 17:56.50 | zykotick9 | debnewbie: not sure about using ~ <- try it. but you might also want to see "/msg dpkg .xsession" which applies to both startx and DMs |
| 17:56.57 | debnewbie | debianisnice: on macosx? you mean in macosx like in a virtual machine? or on a macbook? or another mac computer? |
| 17:57.20 | debianisnice | yeah i mean macbookpro, specifically mid-2012 |
| 17:57.29 | debnewbie | zykotick9: alright, thanks for the hint |
| 17:58.11 | rrn | When trying to install "litiff5-dev", I get the following error msg.: "The following packages have unmet dependencies: libtiff5-dev: Depends: libjpeg-dev"; does this mean that there is a conflict? |
| 17:58.18 | debnewbie | debianisnice: not yet. but i plan to try it soon. do you already have any experience? |
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| 17:58.45 | debianisnice | nope, i plan to also. just want to educate myself on the drivers |
| 17:58.48 | mumpitzel | rrn: it means you need to install both packages |
| 17:58.54 | debianisnice | for backlight etc |
| 17:59.06 | debianisnice | debian must be on all my computers. |
| 17:59.06 | rrn | mumpitzel: Why doesn't it pull in the dep automatically? |
| 17:59.36 | mumpitzel | !tell rrn about bat |
| 17:59.53 | sharky | debnewbie, normally xinit should run with your user, and it uses ~/.xinitrc as the configuration |
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| 18:00.33 | debnewbie | sharky: alright, then i am on the safe side :) |
| 18:01.09 | rrn | mumpitzel: I am using a GUI frontend to install it---that is essentially the relevant output. |
| 18:01.22 | mumpitzel | then use apt-get |
| 18:01.26 | sharky | debnewbie, should be :) |
| 18:01.30 | phunyguy | out of curiousity, when you select "DNS Server" during a Debian install, what service is that actually bringing in? |
| 18:01.38 | mumpitzel | phunyguy: bind |
| 18:01.44 | jhutchins_wk | phunyguy: Usually bind9 |
| 18:01.45 | phunyguy | oh. |
| 18:01.48 | phunyguy | ok thanks |
| 18:02.10 | mumpitzel | phunyguy: man tasksel. and tasksel --list-packages |
| 18:02.23 | phunyguy | mumpitzel, I'm not on debian currently |
| 18:02.28 | phunyguy | hence the question |
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| 18:02.42 | phunyguy | I am going through the install now on a test box |
| 18:02.48 | debnewbie | goodbye |
| 18:02.52 | debnewbie | thanks for the help |
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| 18:04.37 | rrn | mumpitzel: This is funny...apt-get installed that package with no complaints. I guess the frontend is buggy (not unlikely, considering that the error window lacked a proper message, indicating a bug). |
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| 18:09.10 | SamSagaZ | guys is ok to use testing release for workstation? |
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| 18:11.42 | flami | SamSagaZ: probably, I ran testing for years without issues. But every now and then you might have to fix some stuff. Or maybe you get lucky. There's a good chance it works , but no guarantee. |
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| 18:12.09 | SamSagaZ | o :) |
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| 18:15.33 | anti_ | Hello |
| 18:16.40 | anti_ | I've a Compaq Mini netbook with an Intel Atom N270 CPU and an Intel GMA 950 GPU. On a fresh Debian installation, playback of 720p film does not go smoothly, and rendering web pages can take up to 10 seconds. Is this normal? Are there any additional steps required? |
| 18:16.54 | anti_ | To install the drivers, that is |
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| 18:18.51 | flami | anti_: 720p on an intel atom probably does not work as I think there is no hardware acceleration for video on that. I believe that intel implemented va-api (I think that was it) for the graphics cores on the i3 i5 etc, but not for the atom |
| 18:19.24 | letbind | jandrusk: thanks. |
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| 18:19.40 | ChibaPet | sevenpath: #debian-next is on OFTC, not Freenode. |
| 18:19.56 | letbind | mumpitzel: what is nmg, I was thinking of proposing a new .deb. |
| 18:19.59 | flami | also ... its an Atom. its slow. ( I know, I use it on my netbook) |
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| 18:20.28 | ChibaPet | sevenpath: Sorry, tab-complete error. I guess the guy left. |
| 18:20.41 | ChibaPet | flami: Asus Eee PC? |
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| 18:20.47 | zykotick9 | letbind: see "/msg dpkg nmg" |
| 18:21.20 | mumpitzel | letbind: dpkg sent you a factoid. |
| 18:21.34 | flami | ChibaPet: Lenovo s10-3t . also I found http://www.slideshare.net/kolyshkin/seven-problems-of-linux-containers . that might interest you. |
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| 18:22.09 | mumpitzel | letbind: if you just want to someone else to package some software: https://wiki.debian.org/RFP |
| 18:22.23 | ChibaPet | flami: Thanks, I'll look at it. |
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| 18:22.50 | letbind | mumpitzel: thanks |
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| 18:23.49 | anti_ | flami so I'm going to experience these kind of problems on all netbooks with similar specs? |
| 18:23.57 | flami | yes |
| 18:24.09 | ChibaPet | flami: this just makes me want OpenVZ. =grumble= |
| 18:24.12 | flami | also on windows most likely . the processor is just very very bad |
| 18:25.09 | flami | ChibaPet: I think the beginning is about what is currently missing to get LXC to a better state. unfortunately the LXC documentation is slim to none it seems :/ |
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| 18:25.23 | flami | anti_: --^ |
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| 18:26.12 | anti_ | How can I check if any given processor has hardware acceleration? I'm shopping for a new one and it's nice to know these things beforehand |
| 18:26.22 | anti_ | A new netbook, that is |
| 18:26.37 | mumpitzel | anti_: hardware acceleration for what? |
| 18:26.43 | Woet | processor? hardware acceleration? |
| 18:27.04 | mumpitzel | Woet: sure. FMA for example |
| 18:27.08 | flami | anti_: any i3 should be able to run 720. also as I said I think intel implemented va-api for them so you get accelrated h.264 |
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| 18:27.35 | mumpitzel | any celeron can decode h.264 at 1080p. and of course i3 can do too |
| 18:27.36 | Woet | okay, so video playback |
| 18:27.40 | Woet | i missed that |
| 18:28.02 | mumpitzel | Woet: no. just cause flami assumed that, doesn't make it true. anti_ hasn't responded yet |
| 18:28.42 | flami | mumpitzel: he did say that 720p video lags . tsk tsk tks |
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| 18:36.51 | anti_ | mumpitzel Woet yes, for video playback |
| 18:37.17 | flami | if I remember correctly , AMD's proprietary driver now exposes its video acceleration to "normal" users ( not only people that paid for the priviledge) . if you want to know more about the state of that , I found the xbmc forums to be quite helpful for finding info about lowpower cpus that run hd video. |
| 18:37.28 | anti_ | But what about an AMD A4 processor, for example? |
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| 18:39.19 | flami | anti_: I don't know anymore . as I said read up on the xbmc forums. they got loads of information about the current state of video acceleration. |
| 18:39.20 | anti_ | And as for GPUs, are all of them supported? What do I need to check for? |
| 18:39.21 | sharpy35 | hey guys i am running a debian 7 server and i want to add the libapache2-mod-chroot to the loaded apache modules, but each time i am trying to install this package via apt-get it sais that this packet couldnt be found, do you have any advices? |
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| 18:39.32 | flami | anti_: all amd and nvidia gpus have at least the proprietary drivers, however if you have a laptop with both an nvidia and intel gpu, the switching is likely gonna be fiddly, or doesn't work right. I wouldn't go with a laptop with 2 gpus, |
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| 18:39.47 | flami | sharpy35: mod-chroot is in squeeze only it seems. plus you are probably better off setting up suexec properly instead of using mod-chroot. Tried it many years ago and it was fiddly. If you want to isolate servers, you might be better off using virtualisation or containers. |
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| 18:39.49 | sharpy35 | okay thanks flami :) |
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| 18:40.46 | Sebboh | Hello! When I do an apt-cache search linux-image, I only see results for the latest kernel version in my repos and the last kernel I've actually installed. I am sure there were some more inbetween... Are there command line options or configuration options that apt-cache will take to show me other versions that are in the repos? |
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| 18:41.39 | teraflops | wonders if optimus is fiddly |
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| 18:43.04 | anti_ | flami thanks |
| 18:44.59 | flami | Sebboh: you want an old kernel version? maybe look at http://snapshot.debian.org/ |
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| 18:46.52 | Sebboh | not old. Something between 3.2 and 3.11. virtualbox host<-->guest file sharing is broken in 3.11. (well, that is fixed now, but I'll wait for the release...) |
| 18:47.52 | somiaj | http://paste.debian.net/66056/ -- anyone able to see what is causing the lockup here. It happens very rarely (had it happen 4-5 times total, every few months) |
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| 18:48.25 | Sebboh | Today I learned about apt-cache madison $package ... Neat. Doesn't work on linux-image-* packages though, since each one only has one version... |
| 18:48.41 | nullbyte_ | somiaj: bad driver |
| 18:48.52 | nullbyte_ | somiaj: try latest compat-wireless |
| 18:49.21 | flami | Sebboh: debian only maintains the stable and oldstable kernels, for any other kernels you gotta build them yourself . maybe you find an old kernel somewhere in snapshots for testing? |
| 18:50.15 | mumpitzel | Sebboh: use a backports kernel then. that is 3.10 |
| 18:50.25 | mumpitzel | ,kernels |
| 18:50.28 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.12-rc7-686-pae (3.12~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 3.11-2-686-pae (3.11.8-1); jessie: 3.10-3-686-pae (3.10.11-1); wheezy-backports: 3.10-0.bpo.3-686-pae (3.10.11-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.51-1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.46-1+deb7u1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze4) |
| 18:50.34 | sharpy35 | flami thanks for the tipp with suEXEC |
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| 18:50.58 | flami | sharpy35: np. |
| 18:51.05 | somiaj | nullbyte_: I do know the realtek wireless driver causes isues on my machine, what makes you think it is that? The modules linked in seems to covere everything from rtl to radeon to snd drivers. Also I was not even using wireless when it locked up. |
| 18:51.12 | sharpy35 | it looks like the thing i need :D |
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| 18:51.38 | Sebboh | yeah I think that the jessie kernel is what I want, then. mumpitzel, flami, thank you! |
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| 18:52.37 | marcidy | downgrading your kernel doesn't seem like that great of an idea, but i've never done it. Is that expected to work? |
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| 18:54.08 | amgarchIn9 | what's up with all the links to package VCS? I wanted to look at a specific change in ATLAS http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/atlas.html neither SVN nor GIT repos are online. |
| 18:54.37 | flami | marcidy: you can keep the old kernel , then boot into the downgraded one and see if it works, if not , boot into the original kernel. |
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| 18:55.59 | martin-_- | hi, i installed a .deb from a thirdparty and i want to copy that .deb file to an other system.. how do I get the .deb file? |
| 18:56.09 | marcidy | flami: excellent point |
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| 18:56.28 | somiaj | marcidy: how did you get that .deb in the first place? If you downloaded it with apt, it would be in /var/cache/apt/archives |
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| 18:57.29 | marcidy | somiaj: sorry, what deb? |
| 18:57.33 | martin-_- | ok I installed a .bin file which installs the .deb file. And now I want to grep this .deb file so that I can copy it to an other system |
| 18:57.37 | ChibaPet | flami: Do you know if there's an OpenVZ IRC support channel somewhere? It looks like things are slicker from the last time I looked. |
| 18:57.50 | somiaj | marcidy: sorry, bad tab completion |
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| 18:57.54 | somiaj | martin-_-: ^^ my comment was for you |
| 18:57.57 | marcidy | somiaj: :) |
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| 18:58.02 | martin-_- | :) |
| 18:58.18 | ChibaPet | Ah, it lives on Freenode. |
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| 18:58.26 | flami | ChibaPet: #openvz |
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| 18:58.37 | somiaj | martin-_-: YOu aren't giving enough info and we don't really support thrid party .debs |
| 18:58.52 | somiaj | martin-_-: I have no idea what this random binary is doing that is installing this deb, maybe ask the people who made it how it works. |
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| 19:00.19 | martin-_- | somiaj, I got here an NAS. You can install addon's by uploading it to the NAS webinterface. The addon files are .bin files. I saw when installing the addon /.bin file that it is installing a .deb file on my NAS system. |
| 19:00.40 | martin-_- | Now I want to copy this new installed .deb file on an other system |
| 19:00.48 | martin-_- | but I dont know where it is located |
| 19:01.07 | martin-_- | I tried to find it in /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 19:01.07 | martin-_- | but there isn't the package |
| 19:01.26 | flami | martin-_-: find / -type f -iname *.deb ? |
| 19:01.49 | martin-_- | ok I try |
| 19:02.26 | martin-_- | or is it possible to view which files are related to package x? |
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| 19:04.33 | flami | martin-_-: dpkg -L packagename |
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| 19:05.22 | martin-_- | thanks flami |
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| 19:10.38 | ddeeff | Hi. I tried upgrading by glibc packages in debian 7.1 and it kinda bricked my machine (I think). I can mount the hard drive, but I don't know how to downgrade the packages I installed. Is it possible? |
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| 19:15.26 | martin-_- | flami, can I create a .deb package when I do copy only the files from dpkg -L packagename ? |
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| 19:16.15 | flami | martin-_-: no idea. I only know how to create one from source . the .deb gets some extra metadata |
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| 19:16.54 | martin-_- | hm yes, normaly I use checkinstall when creating packages from source |
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| 19:18.45 | mumpitzel | martin-_-: you can, just not a proper one. and if it actually works is anyone's guess |
| 19:19.07 | mumpitzel | !tell ddeeff about downgrade |
| 19:19.30 | jhutchins_wk | ddeeff: Restore your backup? |
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| 19:20.57 | martin-_- | mumpitzel, with dh_make ? |
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| 19:31.03 | Yans | y0 |
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| 19:43.39 | *** topic/#debian is wheezy released: /msg dpkg squeeze->wheezy | current point release: /msg dpkg 7.2 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) |
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| 19:54.17 | mycae | Hi, I just ran some updates on my building VM, and found that my package no longer builds. Some commands were performed in override_dh_auto_install, however they fail as they expect $(CURDIR)/debian/$PACKAGENAME to exist, which it doesn't. Instead $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/ exists - is there some good keywords, or links regarding this change, or is something else wrong |
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| 19:59.37 | jhutchins_wk | mycae: You might try #debian-mentors on oftc.net. If it says it's invite only, you're not on oftc.net, you're still on freenode. |
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| 20:00.24 | Dudytz | hi all .. ubuntu "stable" is based in the debian unstable? |
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| 20:01.28 | Cyis | Dudytz: more like a mix of stable, unstable and testing |
| 20:01.32 | jhutchins_wk | Dudytz: Originally. Opinions vary on whether that's still valid. |
| 20:02.05 | jhutchins_wk | Dudytz: It also includes a good deal of original/independent work. |
| 20:02.39 | Cyis | jhutchins_wk: by independent of course you mean they take the package hack it up, rebuild it and release it as original? |
| 20:02.54 | jhutchins_wk | Cyis: unity is not from Debian. |
| 20:03.07 | Cyis | jhutchins_wk: that's cause no one running Debian wants that filth |
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| 20:03.29 | Dudytz | ok ... I love debian ... but use ubuntu because is "out-of-box" and user friendly .... is the debian unstable with gnome good for desktop use? |
| 20:03.32 | jhutchins_wk | Cyis: Merely an example. |
| 20:04.07 | jhutchins_wk | Dudytz: No. unstable/sid is not intended as a working release, it is a staging repository for packages on their way to testing. |
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| 20:04.46 | Cyis | use unstable only when you can deal with breakages |
| 20:04.59 | Dudytz | but working great in the ubuntu releases ... is this because ubuntu "fix" the problems in the debian unstable? |
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| 20:05.43 | jhutchins_wk | Dudytz: Somewhat, and really Debian Testing comes from Debian unstable, and eventually becomes Debian stable. |
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| 20:06.10 | jhutchins_wk | Cyis: Sometimes Ubuntu does NOT fix the problems in the packages. |
| 20:06.37 | Cyis | jhutchins_wk: nope... their fix is just to gut the problem code/configuration cause only 1% of users will ever need it so it's not worth fixing it really |
| 20:07.12 | jhutchins_wk | Cyis: They figure if you want newer packages, you'll put up with some things being broken. |
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| 20:07.55 | Cyis | jhutchins_wk: personally I prefer stable and works as I expect it... doesn't have to be the newest, that just means it has bugs no one else has reported yet |
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| 20:08.45 | Cyis | well time for me to leave the office and go get the stress from the week removed from my body at the chiropractor before enjoying the evening out with my wife to celebrate our anniversary |
| 20:09.11 | jhutchins_wk | Yeah, stable is great for when you need your computer to be a tool for doing other things rather than an end in itself. |
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| 20:09.44 | jhutchins_wk | Cyis: Well, congratulations and have a nice weekend then. |
| 20:10.38 | Cyis | jhutchins_wk: thanks... 8 years... my ex and I were married 3.5 years too long so it's been a pleasant 8\ |
| 20:10.51 | jhutchins_wk | Sometimes people PM me and it's days before I even notice the new tab. |
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| 20:24.29 | Sebboh | My apt repos are currently configured to deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main non-free contrib plus the Google Chrome repository. How do I install a package (linux-image-3.10...) from Jessie? |
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| 20:27.28 | DammitJim | is sftp the same as scp? |
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| 20:27.33 | DammitJim | i didn't think so |
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| 20:34.59 | somiaj | I thought sftp is kinda generic, because there is ftp over ssl and then the sftp extension of ssh. |
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| 20:35.52 | dondelelcaro | somiaj: one is sftp (sftp+ssh), the other is ftps (ftp over ssl) |
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| 20:36.51 | somiaj | intersting, Some implementations of the scp program support both the SFTP and SCP protocols to perform file transfers, depending on what the server supports. |
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| 20:37.19 | uehuehue | Will debian use systemd in the next release? |
| 20:37.19 | somiaj | dondelelcaro: oh yea forgot that is called ftps thanks. (: |
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| 20:37.49 | somiaj | uehuehue: debian uses systemd in the current release, but as far as I have heard, sysvinit will still be the default. |
| 20:38.04 | uehuehue | Ah, ok |
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| 20:38.47 | ddeeff | I use the sftp command because it has simple commands and it uses my ssh keys (no passwords used to log in). Am I wrong for not caring about other things? |
| 20:38.59 | forcer | Is the voting thing done? |
| 20:39.13 | somiaj | more and more packages are becoming compadable with systemd, and not sure if the next gnome will force it has a hard dependency or not uehuehue. It could be if you use gnome you will have to use it. |
| 20:39.36 | uehuehue | I would actually prefer systemd to be the default |
| 20:39.40 | SamSagaZ | guys, is possible that debian-testing-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso install gnome instead xfce? after install debian-testing-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso the machine start with gnome instead xfce :/ |
| 20:39.44 | dragostini | Hey guys. Somewhat new to linux, but not entirely useless here. I decided to take my first step into truly learning linux, and installed debian CLI only. I've used a variety of distros and DE's but decided it was time...Perhaps prematurely lol. I've found myself stuck in a way. I just did iwconfig and am being told, no wireless extensions...I am hardlined right now, but need wifi capability....Any ideas on how to proceed? |
| 20:40.00 | petern_ | there's some debate about what to do with sysvinit/systemd/etc |
| 20:40.03 | somiaj | uehuehue: I would prefer it isn't the default. I hope debian sticks with choices and dosen't force people to use it who don't want it. (: |
| 20:40.24 | ChibaPet | dragostini: CLI-only sort of limits you. It's pretty useful being able to have a number of terminals visible at once. |
| 20:40.53 | uehuehue | somiaj, Doesn't having sysvinit as default force people to use sysvinit without giving a choice? :S |
| 20:40.54 | somiaj | dragostini: first you need to identify your wireless card, is it pci or usb? |
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| 20:40.58 | dragostini | I agree, its handy, but I wanted to FORCE myself to learn the CLI. |
| 20:41.09 | mtn | dragostini: you can start here: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi |
| 20:41.11 | forcer | Considering the (very, very large) amount of discussion on the topic, it might be useful not to repeat it here :o) |
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| 20:41.17 | dragostini | somiaj: its not usb, its build into my laptop |
| 20:41.32 | somiaj | dragostini: lspci -vvv -- try to identify what chipset your wireless card has |
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| 20:41.35 | mycae | dragostini, steps are usually, work out the device you have (google will tell you ;) and then maybe install the required firmware (eg ralink) |
| 20:42.08 | petern_ | somiaj, they want to have just one, i believe |
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| 20:42.50 | somiaj | petern_: I saw a video about a month ago where some debian devs were saying what the future of jessie was, and I think they are gonna keep with both. |
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| 20:43.19 | somiaj | I am one of the anti systemd people, but I don't see a need for it for my uses. |
| 20:43.34 | forcer | uehuehue: The current discussion on tech-ctte can be found here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2013/10/msg00013.html - I'm not aware of them having come to a conclusion |
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| 20:44.12 | petern_ | openrc, systemd, sysvinit and upstart are supposed candidates |
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| 20:45.42 | dragostini | thanks guys, will look into it :D |
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| 20:45.48 | dragostini | might be back shortly heh |
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| 20:46.59 | petern_ | I'm not sure my input of "Ewww, upstart's ubuntu's" would be taken as valid construction input ;) |
| 20:47.04 | jhutchins_wk | drasko: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/DOS-Win-to-Linux-HOWTO.html http://www.linuxcommand.org/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/20/terminal1.html http://www.ischool.berkeley.edu/~kevin/unix-tutorial/toc.html |
| 20:47.29 | jhutchins_wk | drasko: Sorry. |
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| 20:56.09 | SamSagaZ | confirmed debian-testing-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso are bad, dont install xfce, install gnome |
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| 20:57.14 | mtn | SamSagaZ: to get testing you should install stable and then upgrade, anyway. |
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| 20:57.26 | SamSagaZ | oh |
| 20:57.34 | SamSagaZ | mtn: thats the right way? |
| 20:57.38 | SamSagaZ | didnt know that |
| 20:57.53 | SamSagaZ | i deleted my old stable release to install the testing one :/ |
| 20:57.56 | mtn | SamSagaZ: recommended, yes. that installer is a testing, notice the word testing?, installer |
| 20:58.07 | SamSagaZ | mtn: ok |
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| 20:59.21 | somiaj | SamSagaZ: I personally prefer to use the netinstall to install a minimial stable system, upgrade that minimial system, then install the rest of the stuff from testing |
| 20:59.31 | SamSagaZ | how to upgrade to testing from For a new installation, the debian-installer team has a recommended testing image of the debian-installer (enter "Advanced options" and scroll down to change the desktop environment to XFCE (or anything else) if you want to avoid Gnome 3.) |
| 20:59.39 | SamSagaZ | damn |
| 20:59.55 | somiaj | SamSagaZ: if you have to ask how do you dist-upgrade to testing, you probabaly shouldn't be running it |
| 21:00.05 | mtn | indeed |
| 21:00.11 | somiaj | SamSagaZ: that being said, you switch 'wheezy' with 'jessie' in your sources.list and dist-upgrade |
| 21:00.20 | SamSagaZ | yes i found that |
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| 21:00.25 | SamSagaZ | thanks guys |
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| 21:02.58 | SamSagaZ | upgrading |
| 21:03.28 | uehuehue | Why would you want Debian testing? |
| 21:04.06 | uehuehue | iirc testing doesn't get security updates? |
| 21:04.28 | SamSagaZ | want to use some soft not supported yet by stable |
| 21:04.30 | SamSagaZ | thats all |
| 21:04.40 | uehuehue | Use a different distro |
| 21:05.30 | flami | testing gets security updates, slowly as they trickle down from unstable. |
| 21:05.41 | AleksEst | is this https://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging is best available URL for debian package making? |
| 21:05.46 | mtn | uehuehue: nothing wrong with running testing, as long as you know what you are doing or don't care. |
| 21:06.02 | SamSagaZ | ppl told me that are enough for workstations use testing |
| 21:06.46 | flami | SamSagaZ: testing can potentially break . there is no guarantee that it works, it probably works. but it might break in horrible ways |
| 21:07.16 | SamSagaZ | yeah, lets see what happend then :) |
| 21:07.27 | zykotick9 | SamSagaZ: (personal opinion only) but i view going from stable to testing is a "downgrade" ;) many disagree. YMMV |
| 21:07.54 | SamSagaZ | lost a lot of time trying to install directly from testing.iso :( |
| 21:08.01 | SamSagaZ | s/lost/waste |
| 21:08.06 | SamSagaZ | (sorry for my english) |
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| 21:08.18 | uehuehue | s/waste/wasted/ |
| 21:08.19 | flami | told ya it might break in horrbile ways hehehe |
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| 21:08.37 | SamSagaZ | :) |
| 21:08.39 | SamSagaZ | thanks uehuehue |
| 21:08.44 | SamSagaZ | my english really sux |
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| 21:08.53 | flami | its good enough. |
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| 21:11.12 | debiansnice | hi, how do i get wireless to work on my debian? |
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| 21:11.46 | mumpitzel | debiansnice: what wlan chip (lspci -nn or lsusb) |
| 21:12.22 | debiansnice | SATA controller [0106]: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset 4 port SATA AHCI Controller |
| 21:12.28 | somiaj | SamSagaZ: biggest issue with testing or unstable is being able to fix the things that break. Which requires a good amount of knowledge of debian in general. |
| 21:12.44 | somiaj | (provided you already accept you won't get security updates and the likes) |
| 21:12.46 | SamSagaZ | mmm |
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| 21:13.17 | SamSagaZ | dont get security updates? |
| 21:13.20 | mycae | debiansnice, thats not your wifi chip, thats a SATA controller. |
| 21:13.22 | Bronze | hi, I'm installing deb 7.2 amd-64 on a Dell Desktop that has a broadcom 57788 ethernet NIC. debian has had some issues with this card in the past. Is there anyway I can find out if the issues have been resolved (module is tg3) |
| 21:13.25 | somiaj | debiansnice: that isn't a wireless controler |
| 21:13.41 | somiaj | debiansnice: figure out what wireless chipset you have and the info on the debian wiki is usually fairly good once you do that |
| 21:13.57 | debiansnice | Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4313 802.11b/g/n Wireless LAN Controller |
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| 21:14.05 | somiaj | Bronze: what sort of issues? |
| 21:14.13 | debiansnice | sorry pasted the wrong item |
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| 21:14.37 | Bronze | somiaj: it will drop the connection and be unable to resume it, or , worse won't be able to make the connection at all. |
| 21:14.41 | mycae | debiansnice, I have a similar chip, the wiki instructions were great |
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| 21:15.01 | debiansnice | i tried the installation and i kept getting error in terminal |
| 21:15.22 | debiansnice | i did apt-get install wireless-control |
| 21:15.27 | Bronze | somiaj: by connection I mean, "bring up the enthernet connection |
| 21:15.52 | mycae | debiansnice, you need to be more specific about what errors you are talking about |
| 21:15.52 | mycae | its not clear what you've done, and what is or is not working. |
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| 21:16.26 | mycae | thats is not mentioned at https://wiki.debian.org/bcm43xx |
| 21:16.29 | mycae | have a read through that page |
| 21:16.36 | mtn | debiansnice: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi |
| 21:16.43 | debiansnice | i keep getting a error message "x is not a sudoer file. This incident will be reported" |
| 21:18.22 | uehuehue | Add x to sudoers? |
| 21:18.50 | somiaj | debiansnice: https://wiki.debian.org/brcm80211 -- that may help you, broadcoms are a bit annoying to get working if you odn't have a wired network on them in debian to get the firwmare |
| 21:19.04 | zykotick9 | debiansnice: adding your user to the sudo group, then logging out and back in. should typically work. |
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| 21:19.46 | mumpitzel | !bcm4313 |
| 21:19.46 | dpkg | The Broadcom BCM4313 (PCI ID 14e4:4727) - incorrectly identified as BCM4727 by Broadcom's proprietary driver - is an 802.11n PCIe wireless LAN chipset. Not supported by the <b43> driver at this time. For device support, ask about me about <brcmsmac>. Not to be confused with the <bcm4331>. |
| 21:19.51 | somiaj | Bronze: You could check the wiki for info on that chipset/driver. broadcom also has their own drivers you can use, but aren't in the linux mainline kernel. But I don't know a for sure place to look to see if your issue is fixed |
| 21:21.09 | debiansnice | ok ill mess around with it |
| 21:21.15 | debiansnice | this is all experimental fun anywyas |
| 21:21.29 | debiansnice | like playing the rubik's cube |
| 21:21.33 | Bronze | somiaj: gracias |
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| 21:22.43 | Cpt-Oblivious | how can I upgrade the debian kernel on 7.2 to 3.8 or 3.10 via ipmi (no network)? |
| 21:22.47 | Cpt-Oblivious | so an offline install |
| 21:25.17 | somiaj | Cpt-Oblivious: use wheezy-backports, I htink you can get 3.10 from there |
| 21:26.01 | Cpt-Oblivious | yea 3.10 is highest, I need a higher kernel since my NIC isn't supported in the standard 7.2, how do I install it via backports offline? |
| 21:26.48 | somiaj | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 21:26.50 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on i386 -- squeeze: 2.6.32+29; squeeze-backports: 3.2+46~bpo60+1; wheezy: 3.2+46; wheezy-backports: 3.10+52~bpo70+1; jessie: 3.10+52; sid: 3.11+54 |
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| 21:27.11 | somiaj | Cpt-Oblivious: if you aren't online, you will have to download the required .deb files and copy them over |
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| 21:27.26 | somiaj | Cpt-Oblivious: you can use packages.debian.org or prefered, use another debian system and download with apt |
| 21:27.35 | Cpt-Oblivious | ok |
| 21:27.41 | mumpitzel | Cpt-Oblivious: download the kernel and the initramfs package from backports. install both via dpkg -i |
| 21:27.45 | somiaj | you will most likely need a few .deb packages due to dependencies |
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| 21:28.19 | Cpt-Oblivious | http://linuxg.net/how-to-install-the-linux-kernel-3-10-10-on-ubuntu-linux-mint-elementary-os-debian-and-derivates/ |
| 21:28.22 | Cpt-Oblivious | are those 3 enough? |
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| 21:29.44 | mumpitzel | Cpt-Oblivious: are you running ubuntu or mint? |
| 21:29.53 | Cpt-Oblivious | Debian 7.2 |
| 21:30.05 | mumpitzel | then this article is wrong for you. I told you what you need |
| 21:30.34 | mumpitzel | and you might want the headers too of course if you need to build modules or use dkms |
| 21:31.02 | Cpt-Oblivious | uhh |
| 21:31.05 | Cpt-Oblivious | let me see if I can find them |
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| 21:32.30 | letbind | forcer: you seem too trigger happy to be having moderator privileges. I see that you don't like being talked back. Meaning you are a control freak. |
| 21:33.06 | letbind | forcer: that's the feedback I give you. Think about it. |
| 21:33.11 | forcer | letbind: I am not sure if bringing your moderation problems on another channel to this channel is particularly useful |
| 21:33.37 | letbind | forcer: you got the message. That's what is important |
| 21:34.15 | flypp | letbind, i don't give a .... about this. Go crying elsewhere |
| 21:35.16 | letbind | flypp: Ok. I wasn't talking to you. |
| 21:35.18 | foetus | how could i manage my ifaces in /etc/network/interfaces? There is wlan0 and eth0 (builtin), i have add two lines to wlan0: up ifdown wlan0 and down ifup eth0, but if wlan0 is up, eth0 is up too.. how could i manage these two interfaces? System is current (wheezy) |
| 21:35.31 | cafuego | letbind: Read the channel topic. |
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| 21:36.00 | foetus | *up ifdown eth0 and down ifup eth0 -- sry :) |
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| 21:38.02 | foetus | all interfaces are up in ifconfig. if i do ifconfig eth0 down manually, it works. |
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| 21:38.22 | Reflow | how do i create proftpd accounts |
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| 21:39.18 | letbind | cafuego: it says something about squeeze and wheezy. |
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| 21:39.52 | mumpitzel | letbind: stop being OT |
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| 21:40.57 | foetus | but not the entry in /etc/network/interfaces. man wireless and debian readme doesnt say too much about wireless, i think.. |
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| 21:42.05 | mumpitzel | foetus: you want to disable eth0 when wlan is active and vice versa? why? |
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| 21:42.36 | foetus | both are in the same network. |
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| 21:42.50 | foetus | for nameserver reasons. |
| 21:43.05 | mumpitzel | again: how is that bad? |
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| 21:44.37 | foetus | if i do "auto lo wlan0 eth0", it works, for sure.. |
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| 21:45.14 | foetus | (eth0 is not ready in this case) |
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| 21:47.22 | cafuego | foetus: Ypu can probably add scripts in if-up.d and if-down.d to manage that - assuming you pick which should be the preferred connection if both are active. |
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| 21:51.43 | DammitJim | man, does it take time for a change in an openssh server to take effect? |
| 21:51.53 | DammitJim | I just enabled RSA authentication, but it still asks me for a password |
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| 21:52.51 | mumpitzel | DammitJim: restart the server |
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| 21:52.59 | foetus | ok. i used these two entries under lenny - it worked for me. but not under wheezy, i have tried these wireless-prefixes, but it was not functional anymore. |
| 21:53.08 | DammitJim | you mean the ssh service? |
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| 21:53.11 | DammitJim | I did |
| 21:53.30 | DammitJim | the change to PermitRoot... to no worked |
| 21:53.38 | DammitJim | but it still asks for the password instead of using the key |
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| 21:54.30 | _val_ | DammitJim: ssh-keygen -t rsa ; ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub user@domain.com ; ssh user@domain.com # should work |
| 21:54.30 | blubberdiblub | DammitJim, make sure the .ssh dir and authorized_keys file have the correct permissions |
| 21:55.10 | DammitJim | I just changed it from 666 to 600 (the key) |
| 21:55.10 | blubberdiblub | DammitJim, sshd may refuse to read the file when the permissions are too broad |
| 21:55.22 | DammitJim | yup, that was it |
| 21:55.24 | DammitJim | man, ssh is smart! |
| 21:55.25 | bezaban | that'll be it |
| 21:55.27 | bezaban | right. |
| 21:55.31 | DammitJim | thank you! |
| 21:55.40 | blubberdiblub | you're welcome |
| 21:55.57 | _val_ | DammitJim: if you used ssh-copy-id youdn't have had that problem. Next! |
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| 21:57.18 | bezaban | are there any other ssh servers than openssh in debian, specifically one that will support X509 with ocsp lookups |
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| 21:57.53 | bezaban | I assume there isn't as I've looked pretty hard, but might be surprised |
| 21:58.00 | ChibaPet | Don't know about that, but there's dropbear. |
| 21:58.13 | doebi | i badly configured some drivers and system settings on my thinkpad. does it make sense to completly reinstall or is there a way to restore to defaults and then start over? |
| 21:58.16 | DammitJim | _val_, I had some issues with that but don't remember what it was |
| 21:58.19 | DammitJim | I'm going to try it again |
| 21:58.37 | bezaban | ChibaPet: thanks |
| 21:58.38 | DammitJim | gosh, hardening servers is hard work... lots of manual labor changing the sshd_config file to not allow root for exxample |
| 21:59.04 | _val_ | DammitJim: trust me. Remove the actuall key you've now in authorized_keys on the destination host, try those few steps I just described and everything should work. |
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| 21:59.19 | ChibaPet | DammitJim: In addition to that, explicating allowed users in an AllowUsers directive is Really Good. |
| 22:00.17 | DammitJim | thanks |
| 22:00.25 | _val_ | ssh-copy-id arranges permissions itself and changes id_rsa.pub to 600 and preserves these permissions when copied to the destination host |
| 22:00.28 | DammitJim | _val_, does that generate a new key or it uses the one I already made? |
| 22:00.34 | bezaban | on top of that you can allow access only from certain IP ranges, can be hard to specify all you need, but if you know you're not travelling to .ru or .cn anytime soon it could help you |
| 22:00.51 | bezaban | a jump box helps too, but possibly out of scope |
| 22:00.55 | _val_ | DammitJim: you can rm -rf ~/.ssh/ and then run ssh-keygen again.. |
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| 22:01.25 | Cpt-Oblivious | which .deb files do I have to download to upgrade Debian 7.2 to the 3.10 kernel? I can't find them :O |
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| 22:01.42 | bezaban | ,version linux-kernel |
| 22:01.43 | judd | No package named 'linux-kernel' was found in i386. |
| 22:01.45 | bezaban | erf |
| 22:01.55 | DammitJim | _val_, why would I want to do that? |
| 22:02.06 | mumpitzel | bezaban: /msg judd ,kernels |
| 22:02.20 | DammitJim | that failed... something about the ssh usage |
| 22:02.22 | mumpitzel | Cpt-Oblivious: I told you, kernel and initramfs |
| 22:02.27 | Cpt-Oblivious | I can't find those :S |
| 22:02.33 | bezaban | mumpitzel: just did :) |
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| 22:02.53 | bezaban | 3.10 is in backports |
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| 22:03.14 | Cpt-Oblivious | http://backports.debian.org/Packages/ I'm searching for 3.10 / kernel there but my keyword is too generic :S |
| 22:03.15 | _val_ | DammitJim: you shouldn't though, I'm just saying that once you use ssh-copy-id you'd not have any problem with permissions or anything else. |
| 22:03.20 | foetus | up or down in /etc/network/interfaces is not functional anymore. so i have to deal with if-up.d and if-down.d .. probably |
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| 22:03.49 | mumpitzel | Cpt-Oblivious: search for "linux-image" instead |
| 22:03.54 | Cpt-Oblivious | oh |
| 22:03.59 | letbind | I see that forcer is a man of short temperament. I have been to other forums where the moderators will not arm themselves so fast. Because they think they will be considered as being less open if they arm themselves too fast |
| 22:04.04 | Sebboh | I'm on sid and I want to install a kernel from Jessie. Now what? (Sorry if I asked this question before and left before seeing the response; I was having IRC client issues.) |
| 22:04.30 | mumpitzel | Cpt-Oblivious: it's the wrong place however. you need wheezy backports |
| 22:04.46 | Cpt-Oblivious | Is it? |
| 22:04.55 | Cpt-Oblivious | It has a wheezy backports search category |
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| 22:05.15 | Cpt-Oblivious | oh no, that's the squeeze one |
| 22:05.15 | elvirolo | hi everyone |
| 22:05.17 | Cpt-Oblivious | hmm |
| 22:05.21 | Worf | Cpt-Oblivious: a good way to figure out what packages you might need is to look at what you have installed: dpkg -l | grep " linux-" |
| 22:05.22 | bezaban | letbind: I would appreciate it if you kept that kind of drama outside the channel |
| 22:05.24 | snollux | Hello, I am trying to understand how to install a simple readme for my DPKG -- where does it actually go? I've read the New Maintaners guide and seen the dh_installdocs() and whatnot, but how does the user actually get to that upon installation? Not with "man mypackage" right? |
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| 22:05.43 | Cpt-Oblivious | good idea Worf |
| 22:05.54 | mumpitzel | letbind: either stop that or I will call ops in here |
| 22:06.08 | letbind | bezaban: I need an acknowledgement from forcer |
| 22:06.25 | bezaban | letbind: maybe so, but not in here please. Last reply to this topic. |
| 22:06.26 | mumpitzel | !ops please make letbind stop dragging other irc channel drama into debian |
| 22:06.27 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: mumpitzel complains about: please make letbind stop dragging other irc channel drama into debian |
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| 22:07.12 | foetus | btw, wheezy works nice .. its my first debian without an self-compiled kernel :) good work, debian-people ;) |
| 22:07.33 | *** mode/#debian [+o dondelelcaro] by ChanServ |
| 22:07.35 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@101.63.237.43] by dondelelcaro |
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| 22:08.07 | elvirolo | I have a xorgless Debian server with hosts some of my data, and I'd like to be able to copy files on the server from one directory to another graphically. Is that possible? If I use NFS and mount a share on another coputer, then obviously the data will transit via the network, which is no good. I can ssh into the server every time I want to copy files, but it's a bit tiresome. |
| 22:08.15 | elvirolo | which* |
| 22:09.01 | mumpitzel | elvirolo: how graphical? you could use mc, which is a clone of the old DOS program norton commander |
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| 22:09.18 | peterS | elvirolo: there's no need to run an xorg server in order to run X clients. run the X client displaying somewhere else. What client though? Something with drag-and-drop for files, I guess, I don't know what software that might include as I don't use it |
| 22:09.29 | mumpitzel | elvirolo: or you can run a X client on your server and a Xserver on your local desktop |
| 22:09.35 | bezaban | elvirolo: you can also install graphical file managing packages and forward to your local xserver |
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| 22:09.56 | Worf | elvirolo: ssh is probably only tiresome if you don't use it's bells and whistles ... ( ssh-key auth, ioslaves for graphical file managers, etc .. ) |
| 22:10.00 | elvirolo | mumpitzel, Hadn't thought of mc, good idea |
| 22:10.02 | mumpitzel | elvirolo: but for remote X you still want to use ssh to make it secure, so you haven't really won anything with using X |
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| 22:10.50 | elvirolo | About ssh it's not that I mind using it, it's just that using cp all the time is a bit slow when I could just use a graphical file manager |
| 22:10.51 | Sebboh | In practice, attempting to install x clients on a headless server results in a bunch of x dependencies being pulled in. configuring apt for no-recommends helps, of course, but still... |
| 22:10.53 | peterS | mumpitzel: ...well, you need to append "haven't won anything" with "...except not having your files make a round trip across a network whilst being copied", which is something |
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| 22:11.25 | mumpitzel | peterS: he complained about having to log in with ssh above. I guess a VPN might solve this tho |
| 22:11.47 | Worf | i tend to use konqueror and fish:// |
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| 22:11.54 | peterS | mumpitzel: well I think the main complaint with ssh was the implication of using command-line tools like cp. which personally I don't see a problem with, it's my preferred mode of working, but.. (: |
| 22:12.10 | Gregor2 | someone knows how to get mupen64plus running? |
| 22:12.26 | mumpitzel | Gregor2: what error do you get when you start it in a terminal? |
| 22:12.31 | foetus | btw, i had to change #!/bin/sh to #!/bin/bash in many scripts to get them working.. errors from the interpreter |
| 22:12.41 | Gregor2 | how can i eaven start it |
| 22:12.54 | Gregor2 | typing mupen64plus ? |
| 22:12.55 | mumpitzel | Gregor2: how did you install it? |
| 22:12.56 | Sebboh | elvirolo: shell loops, shell globbing, and find(1) with -exec can greatly decrease the amount of time it takes to move files around via the command line. Those tricks are well worth learning! sed and awk are very valuable as well. |
| 22:13.08 | Gregor2 | With synaptic package manager! |
| 22:13.18 | elvirolo | peterS, that's exactly it |
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| 22:13.33 | mumpitzel | Gregor2: dpkg -L <package name you installed> |grep bin |
| 22:13.54 | mumpitzel | tho, it should be in menu if it's a proper package. but probably it's from a crappy 3rd party repo |
| 22:14.00 | elvirolo | Sebboh, I don't know about these things. I'll look them up, thank you :) |
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| 22:14.58 | elvirolo | Sebboh, oh actually I do use "for" every now and then |
| 22:15.07 | Gregor2 | how can i search for something in gnome classic like in gnome? |
| 22:15.19 | elvirolo | Thanks a lot for your help guys :) |
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| 22:16.39 | bezaban | isn't find | xargs better than -exec or is that just situational? |
| 22:16.41 | foetus | maybe a dash thing.. sh have to be changed to bash in dash :) |
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| 22:17.18 | peterS | bezaban: that used to be true but it was always situational |
| 22:17.39 | bezaban | peterS: thanks, time to read up again |
| 22:17.41 | peterS | bezaban: -exec ... {} ... ';' is a form that spawns a new program for each file that find wants to act on |
| 22:18.01 | peterS | bezaban: HOWEVER: -exec ... {} ... + is a form that spawns _one_ program for a whole _list_ of files - exactly like xargs except built in to find |
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| 22:18.24 | peterS | bezaban: so usually you want the -exec ... + form, assuming your executable can take multiple filename arguments, and in that case there is really no advantage to xargs |
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| 22:18.31 | Sebboh | bezaban: I've heard that, but I haven't learned xargs yet. Also, I don't seem to encounter situations where the way the command is invoked is the bottleneck... Usually I don't need my computer to be any faster than I can read and react... :) |
| 22:18.38 | bezaban | peters: will -exec choke on a too long argument list like regular commands? |
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| 22:18.57 | peterS | bezaban: no, it has the same smarts as xargs, launching multiple commands if the command line gets too long |
| 22:19.02 | bezaban | ah great |
| 22:19.12 | bezaban | time to adjust the habit then |
| 22:19.26 | peterS | bezaban: so, not every historical 'find' supports the + form, but I think it's in posix, so basically any unix you're ever likely to see will support it |
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| 22:19.33 | bezaban | not sure why I thought so initially |
| 22:19.37 | Sebboh | Oh, I use the ... {} + form, for sure. |
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| 22:20.09 | Tramp | yes, + is POSIX |
| 22:20.41 | peterS | bezaban: now of course there are other reasons to use xargs, like if you want to limit each launched command to a specific number of arguments other than 1, with xargs -n15 for example |
| 22:21.07 | peterS | find -exec ... ';' limits to 1, find -exec ... + limits to whatever the command line can hold, and there's no in between |
| 22:21.11 | _val_ | the only difference is with the Posix + that the '{}' braces should appear at the end of the command |
| 22:21.28 | bezaban | peterS: I'll keep that in mind, thanks for a thorough explanation |
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| 22:22.12 | peterS | bezaban: no problem. "you rarely need xargs after all" is one of those things I wish more people knew, much like "you don't need dd if your cp source or target is a device" |
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| 22:22.28 | Sebboh | hm, for many operations, I simply dump some input (like a bunch of filenames) into a file and then edit the file (using regular expression search/replace...) into a script then source it. |
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| 22:23.01 | peterS | Sebboh: not just find ... -print | sed ... | sh, then? wuss (: |
| 22:23.03 | Sebboh | back references can be used in the match expression, not just the replacement expression! :) |
| 22:24.14 | peterS | one habit I had to unlearn recently: omitting the "." default find target dir. you can't omit it in Solaris, find requires at least one explicit target even if it's "." |
| 22:24.16 | Sebboh | peterS: For that I prefer backticks. ;) |
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| 22:24.43 | Sebboh | peterS, isn't that the case for my find? /me checks |
| 22:25.04 | Sebboh | woah! I don't need the . |
| 22:25.05 | peterS | Sebboh: gnu find assumes you want to find in "." if you don't give any pathnames |
| 22:25.20 | peterS | so I'd long since picked up the habit of omitting it |
| 22:26.02 | Sebboh | ... let's see, two wasted characters per find invocation * x invocations per year * 12 years = I want my money back! |
| 22:26.05 | peterS | hence in gnu, plain 'find' with no arguments is really 'find . -print', or another way to format 'ls -R' |
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| 22:28.05 | Tramp | ls -aR |
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| 22:28.16 | Sebboh | find . -ls |
| 22:28.28 | peterS | Tramp: well, -a also prints .., doesn't it, which find won't (: |
| 22:28.48 | peterS | but yes, ls -AR is close anyway |
| 22:29.01 | Cpt-Oblivious | which of these 3.10 should I install? http://pastebin.com/GkVVxAgD |
| 22:29.06 | _val_ | not to mention. find .. is also a nice one. |
| 22:29.15 | Tramp | PeterS: but ls -R omits all dotfiles, which plain "file" included |
| 22:29.17 | Tramp | s |
| 22:29.30 | peterS | Tramp: I guess that's why I said "but yes, ls -AR is close anyway" |
| 22:29.44 | Sebboh | Blame it on lag. |
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| 22:30.48 | Sebboh | Say, what's the most reasonable way to install a kernel from jessie on sid? I've been using this sid machine for a year with nary a bug, but now I need to downgrade my kernel... ..For a month or two. |
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| 22:32.08 | peterS | Sebboh: I'd add jessie to sources.list, apt-get update, then pick a kernel in full-screen aptitude and go with it. if full-screen aptitude isn't to your taste, of course you can say 'aptitude install' the appropriate linux-image-* package |
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| 22:32.45 | Sebboh | What's the difference between aptitude and apt-cache search + apt-get install? |
| 22:32.53 | snollux | So how to I install documentation for my debian package to where the user can easily access it? Where does it actually go, and how is it read? |
| 22:33.42 | peterS | Sebboh: 2 different implementations of roughly the same functionality. for 'install' in particular it matters that they use different dependency resolution algorithms, which sometimes but not always produce the same results |
| 22:34.11 | Sebboh | snollux: well you want a man page. And non-manpage docs go into /usr/share/doc. I consider it polite to mention the /usr/share/doc files on your manpage. I'm sure there's a Debian HOWTO regarding documentation. |
| 22:34.42 | peterS | for 'search' they may or may not find exactly the same results - I don't know if they are doing the same searches on exactly the same metadata. 'aptitude show' is more sophisticated than 'apt-get show' in that it reformats the text of the 'description' field, line-wrapping to your terminal width and specially formatting bullet points |
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| 22:35.56 | Sebboh | peterS: the ideas you're introducing are foreign to me. How could there be more than one dependency resolution algorithm, when the dependencies themselves are defined in a rigid, declarative manner? |
| 22:36.40 | peterS | _val_: the -rt kernel flavor has some sort of real-time patch set in it, mainly intended to reduce noticeable lag in high-load situations, like helping to prevent audio stutter in your music app while you're doing something else resource-intensive. whether those patches help more than they hurt, I have no idea - nothing is free - but that's what the patchset is for |
| 22:37.01 | Sebboh | Sorry, I understand how there could be more than one algo, but I don't understand how there could be any non-identical results that are both considered correct. |
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| 22:37.15 | peterS | _val_: beyond that you're just looking at different releases of the kernel, the newest thus being linux-image-3.10-0.bpo.3-amd64 or linux-image-3.10-0.bpo.3-rt-amd64 |
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| 22:37.17 | snollux | Sebboh: and that's done by dh_docinstall ? |
| 22:37.39 | Sebboh | snollux: congratuations, you now clearly know more about this subject than I do. :) |
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| 22:38.40 | peterS | Sebboh: not all dependencies are simple. take for example 'Depends: mail-transfer-agent'. There are like a dozen packages in Debian that provide that virtual package name, so any of them would satisfy the dependency. Now what if you already have exim installed, but something else you're trying to install happens to conflict with exim? What would apt do? remove exim in favor of, e.g., nullmailer, or deselect the package you just asked for? |
| 22:39.21 | peterS | so yes there _can_ be multiple valid answers to a dependency resolution question |
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| 22:40.03 | Sebboh | peterS: sure, but any correct algorithm should emit the SAME ambigious answers in that situation. |
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| 22:40.21 | peterS | Sebboh: not necessarily. not all resolutions are equally easy to figure out, algorithmically |
| 22:40.56 | Sebboh | peterS: sure, but any "correct" algorithm should emit the SAME ambigious answers in that situation. |
| 22:41.03 | Sebboh | (: |
| 22:41.31 | Sebboh | ...somehow I failed to edit that. I mean, any two correct algos should ... |
| 22:41.42 | peterS | yes if you want your algorithm to spit out an exhaustive list of _all_ possible resolutions. This is not a reasonable request, as the number of solutions goes exponential quite quickly once it becomes permissible to remove one or more packges |
| 22:42.38 | peterS | so, the combinatorial explosion is completely impractical from a UI standpoint even if it can be done algorithmically. you need the computer to present the solutions that make the most sense, i.e., have a weighting function |
| 22:42.43 | Sebboh | ... we're experiencing a category error. I'm talking about how can aptitude and apt produce different results, and if I understand correctly, you're talking about how dependency resolution is hard. |
| 22:43.04 | Sebboh | s/results/results?!/ |
| 22:43.27 | peterS | no I'm talking about how you can get lots of valid answers doing dependency resolution and you have to consider more than "show the user all possible solutions" because there will be too many of them |
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| 22:44.00 | peterS | not to mention 'all possible solutions' is as I understand it an NP problem and as such you have to take shortcuts if your package set is 30000+ |
| 22:44.17 | foetus | wlan isnt working after windows session. i have to power off and power on again and boot into debian. then it works nice. maybe rt2800pci |
| 22:45.01 | peterS | Sebboh: now in the simple case: "I want to install foo." "OK but you're going to need to install libfoo1 as well." "Fine, install both." In that case, clearly apt and aptitude will give the same correct, trivial solution. |
| 22:45.03 | snollux | haha thanks Sebboh, I doubt it.. but I'll see what i can figure out |
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| 22:47.30 | peterS | Sebboh: and yes it doesn't help that the algorithms simply fail to find the best solution sometimes, because it _is_ too complicated and like I said they can't just do an exhaustive brute force search as that will take too long, too much RAM, too many choices. Example to follow: |
| 22:47.51 | Sebboh | peterS, is it a bug that apt and aptitude don't return the same dependency resolutions? Is one considered better? |
| 22:48.06 | peterS | Sebboh: say there's 2 versions of libfoo1 available, from jessie and sid. you have the jessie version installed. The sid version conflicts with half the rest of your system, directly or indirectly, so upgrading libfoo1 is (from a human standpoint) clearly not what you want |
| 22:48.45 | peterS | Sebboh: now consider you want to install foobalizer, which also comes in 2 versions, one requiring any libfoo1, the other specifically requiring the sid libfoo1. What to do? |
| 22:49.23 | peterS | Sebboh: a human looking down from the top will say obviously you install the older foobalizer. But apt and aptitude, for hopefully obvious reasons, have weighting functions to prefer newer versions over older versions of things |
| 22:49.51 | peterS | so they won't always find that solution - instead they might think you might prefer to install the newer foobalizer, upgrade libfoo1, and uninstall half the rest of your system that the newer libfoo1 conflicts with |
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| 22:51.43 | peterS | this whole question of "if a dependency resolution algorithm is bug free it should produce exactly the same results as any other implemntation" is similar thinking to "if a computer could look ahead 500 moves on a chessboard, it could always play a perfect game every time, eliminating all possible paths to losing the game" |
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| 22:52.30 | foetus | i prefer apt-get apt-cache dpkg, but i find this bag of 'recommended' packages a little bit confusing, so i do apt-get --no-install-recommends install <package>.. and it works like expected |
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| 22:55.57 | peterS | ...anyway, main point, dependency resolution once you consider all the corner cases is far, far more complex than people think. the basic problem seems extremely simple: just walk the dependency tree selecting what needs to be selected. but that's because we think of it as a simple tree when it's not (: |
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| 22:56.50 | foetus | indeed. |
| 22:59.41 | peterS | Sebboh: oh in answer to your question, yes, one is considered a better algorithm than the other. But which one is better depends greatly on who you ask! |
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| 23:00.49 | peterS | I sidestep it by running aptitude interactively. if it makes a decision I don't like, I know how to guide it in the direction I want - the full-screen UI provides the means to do that kind of thing. with command-line usage only, it's much harder to do that. |
| 23:00.51 | Sebboh | I'd love to see a side-by-side comparison of the differences, and I'd love to know if package maintainers configure their dependencies "for" one or the other. |
| 23:02.08 | peterS | well if aptitude (e.g.) does something pathological and obviously wrong, two things happen. a bug is filed against aptitude and the maintainer tries to analyse what the algorithm did wrong and how it should be tuned to avoid this. And if it doesn't seem that a fixed version of aptitude will appear soon, the maintainers of the other packages in question try to figure out if there's a way to express what they want without breaking whatever upgrade ... |
| 23:02.15 | peterS | ... scenario broke. |
| 23:02.16 | foetus | gives . . . . . for wheezy and prefer a change to it |
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| 23:03.21 | foetus | ^^runs like hell on my little atom |
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| 23:03.51 | peterS | really package maintainers for the most part just try to express, with dependency fields, the best reality of what their package really needs and benefits from. But there is of course the practical aspect that if you break aptitude's resolver, at some point it doesn't matter if your header fields are mathematically correct in expressing your exact opinion (: |
| 23:04.40 | peterS | sometimes breaking the resolver is a sign that your dependency relationships are subtly wrong, or more complex than they need to be to achieve what you intended |
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| 23:07.16 | foetus | anyway, the basic tools are working as expected, and i did'nt |
| 23:07.22 | foetus | uups |
| 23:07.25 | foetus | sry |
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| 23:11.22 | foetus | bye. |
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| 23:12.37 | j4jackj | Ugh... this channel is bigger than the official... UGH.... |
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| 23:21.44 | byte-smasher_ | I accidentally piped history to vi while in my root account... anything I should be worried about? |
| 23:21.46 | byte-smasher_ | as in |
| 23:21.49 | byte-smasher_ | history | vi |
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| 23:23.46 | th0r | Byte-smasher: no problem. Won't hurt anything. |
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| 23:35.20 | Sebboh | byte-smasher_: excellent question. I've wondered about that kind of thing myself. I don't know how to check. Ask vi people specifically. I'm sure they have a channel here. I'd love to know a generic method of finding out if anything happened, for any such tool. |
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| 23:57.18 | Cpt-Oblivious | Is it still possible to run the base installer again in Debian? |
| 23:57.31 | Cpt-Oblivious | "run-config" allegedly should work, but nothing happens for me. |
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