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| 00:02.29 | ib64c | if i have a host OS with a firewall running and a VM with a guest OS, the VM does not need a firewall because all traffic goes through the host OS's firewall, right? |
| 00:02.57 | Eduard_Munteanu | ib64c: depends how you configure the VM |
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| 00:03.25 | Eduard_Munteanu | It's not true generally. |
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| 00:04.10 | ShapeShifter499 | I fixed it, /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname issue |
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| 00:24.48 | ^Brett^ | When you've got multiple IPv6 addresses, is there a way to define a 'main' IP? As far as I can tell, everything from ping to IRC clients use a random IPv6 address when making outbound connections. |
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| 00:25.59 | Eduard_Munteanu | ^Brett^: yes, see global addresses |
| 00:26.21 | ^Brett^ | Eduard_Munteanu: Thanks a lot. |
| 00:26.33 | Dagger | ^Brett^: I'm not exactly sure what the best way to do it is, but search for "preferred_lft"... that should at least get you to some pages that discuss that problem |
| 00:26.50 | Eduard_Munteanu | ^Brett^: but more generally, each route can choose the source address |
| 00:27.43 | ^Brett^ | Ah, brilliant. Thanks a lot. |
| 00:28.14 | Eduard_Munteanu | ^Brett^: you can see it for yourself in the output of ip -6 route show |
| 00:28.43 | Eduard_Munteanu | Normally you get a link-local address plus a global one from RAs. |
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| 00:29.09 | Eduard_Munteanu | The randomization is possibly a result of enabling privacy extensions. |
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| 00:33.49 | Tom01 | What is the difference between free and available disk space? |
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| 00:34.26 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tom01: in what context? |
| 00:34.59 | Tom01 | Systemmonitor is displaying that under Filesystems. |
| 00:35.26 | Tom01 | free 50.8 GiB available 44.8 GiB |
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| 00:37.55 | Tramp | Tom01: probably "available for users" after subtracting the space reserved for root |
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| 00:38.06 | Tom01 | I see. |
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| 00:52.19 | Tenkawa | this is just confusing me greatly.. considering xorg on the samsung chromebook arm works fine in slackware |
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| 01:03.23 | riceandbeans | can you dm-crpyt and luksetup an already build system? |
| 01:03.28 | riceandbeans | or do you have to reinstall? |
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| 01:04.20 | Eduard_Munteanu | riceandbeans: if you're asking whether you can do it inplace, no, not easily anyway |
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| 01:08.26 | Dennix | how do i become debian developer? |
| 01:09.04 | Dennix | does packaging complies? |
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| 01:13.49 | Dennix | anyone out there? |
| 01:16.03 | Dennix | maintaining packages isnt development per se but might be a stepping stone? |
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| 01:17.12 | oxez | Dennix: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDeveloper |
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| 01:18.03 | Eduard_Munteanu | Dennix: it's the other way around usually... developers become maintainers, given a good track record |
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| 01:18.47 | Dennix | i once made a debian package of an spp that wasnt available |
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| 01:19.46 | Dennix | it was mixxx |
| 01:19.56 | Eduard_Munteanu | Dennix: generally in FOSS communities you don't "become a developer", you just submit patches and work on stuff. |
| 01:20.06 | oxez | Maybe he wants Steam games ! |
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| 01:21.27 | Dennix | but i didn't distributed the package |
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| 01:21.53 | Dennix | just scratching my itch |
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| 01:22.21 | jaami-win | hi, a problem on forst run of my app crash it and error in logcat is W/AllCapsTransformationMethod(639): Caller did not enable length changes; not transforming text |
| 01:22.21 | jaami-win | , is that my code or something went wrong with project settings? |
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| 01:22.44 | jaami-win | first run ** |
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| 01:24.03 | jaami-win | sometimes i hate my google :) |
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| 01:25.49 | jaami-win | no one know the answer? |
| 01:26.02 | jaami-win | any suggestions? |
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| 01:26.34 | jaami-win | many got pissed off for fun :) |
| 01:27.08 | Dennix | i would like to make a gui to every terminal command |
| 01:27.18 | jaami-win | good |
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| 01:28.16 | jaami-win | can someone shed some light on W/AllCapsTransformationMethod(639): Caller did not enable length changes; not transforming text |
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| 01:28.33 | jaami-win | hi mosh |
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| 01:28.39 | jaami-win | oops |
| 01:29.06 | jaami-win | sorry guys, wrong channel, damn xchat |
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| 01:42.54 | KsM | My android phone, whenever I try to do usb sharing, Linux thinks it's a CDROM and won't allow me to mount it, I've has limited luck before with repeated plugging/unplugging, running `eject /dev/sr1`, rm'ing /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-cd.rules - None of that works now though |
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| 01:49.15 | spronk | hi all - is it debian convention for anything from syuslog managed logs i.e. user.log to also appear in syslog ? |
| 01:49.23 | spronk | i.e. /var/log/syslog |
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| 01:49.34 | Eduard_Munteanu | spronk: it's not Debian-specific |
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| 01:49.50 | spronk | what's the rationale? is syslog usually rotated more frequently or something? |
| 01:50.12 | pingfloyd | Syslog is usually a sort of catchall log |
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| 01:51.10 | spronk | ah yep |
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| 01:51.40 | spronk | so i'm assuming using a remote syslog with *.* it won't duplicate stuff because it's output in both user.log and syslog ? |
| 01:52.39 | KsM | [A |
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| 01:56.33 | spronk | cheers guys |
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| 02:02.52 | Eduard_Munteanu | /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d always returning 101 only prevents service (re)start, not configuration, right? |
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| 02:06.12 | Dennix | http://games.slashdot.org/story/14/01/23/2324251/valve-offers-free-subscription-to-debian-developers-paying-it-forward |
| 02:06.57 | Dennix | i see its already working abotman haven't even muted me yet |
| 02:07.17 | vmiimu | Hi, I'm considering backup options for a home server and would like some suggestions. I have 2 drives (one is using LVM) and I'd like automated rotating backups. |
| 02:07.39 | vmiimu | I'm looking at rsnapshot -- is there anything else I should consider? |
| 02:08.35 | vmiimu | I've also manually created lvm snapshots and backed those up using tar -- are there any automated ways of doing that (short of wiriting my own scripts)? |
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| 02:08.49 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: any chance you have a btrfs filesystem? You can make incremental snapshots quite nicely. |
| 02:09.06 | vmiimu | ext4 |
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| 02:11.53 | Tramp | vmiimu: backuppc, obnam |
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| 02:12.20 | Eduard_Munteanu | You should look at 'dar' too. |
| 02:12.38 | rudi_s | vmiimu: rsync |
| 02:13.03 | rudi_s | (http://www.sanitarium.net/golug/rsync_backups_2010.html for more details.) |
| 02:13.08 | Eduard_Munteanu | rudi_s: that's like saying "tar" :) |
| 02:13.17 | rudi_s | Eduard_Munteanu: What? |
| 02:13.59 | Eduard_Munteanu | rudi_s: I think he's looking for a ready-made backup system that handles rotation and such |
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| 02:14.12 | vmiimu | Thanks for the suggestions guys, also is there something that will automatically create an lvm snap, back it up to ex. tar, then remove the snap? |
| 02:14.13 | rudi_s | Eduard_Munteanu: Well, rsync does, with a few minor scripts. |
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| 02:14.43 | rudi_s | One big advantage of rsync is that the results are just plain directories which are easy to inspect and restore. |
| 02:14.56 | vmiimu | yup -- rsnapshot = rsync + rotation (out of the box) =) |
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| 02:16.07 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: an issue there is you can't / shouldn't really take snapshots out of context. |
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| 02:16.36 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu: I don't follow re. context. please elaborate. |
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| 02:17.48 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: restoring from arbitrary snapshots is like crashing a system, unless you take care to stop/pause relevant services. |
| 02:18.27 | Eduard_Munteanu | Just saying it might be relevant depending on application. |
| 02:19.57 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu : I've been able to successfully create LVM snapshots then backup using tar. At a later time, create a new lvm snapshot, restore previous tar, then merge snapshot to fully restore a running system w/out unmounting. Problem was all steps were manual and I was looking for a developed solution around this kind of backup/restore. |
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| 02:20.49 | pingfloyd | vmiimu, if worse comes to worse, could write a shell script |
| 02:20.51 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: how did you "merge" the snapshot? |
| 02:21.15 | pingfloyd | But I would make sure to program appropriate sanity checking and notification |
| 02:21.26 | pingfloyd | Since it is your backups |
| 02:22.47 | pingfloyd | I don't think I would use a too automated approach for restoring though |
| 02:22.58 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu: http://www.tutonics.com/2012/12/lvm-guide-part-2-snapshots.html |
| 02:23.10 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu: lvconvert --merge |
| 02:23.12 | pingfloyd | Maybe just automated enough to cover human error and no more |
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| 02:23.57 | vmiimu | pingfloyd: Yea looks like bash script's gonna be the way to go. I was just wondering if there was already something stable built around it. |
| 02:24.24 | pingfloyd | There are backup apps like amanda etc. |
| 02:24.41 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: ah... sure, but it still looks like a crash when you boot it. I'm just mentioning it because it might be relevant in certain conditions. |
| 02:25.06 | dvs | or backuppc |
| 02:25.08 | pingfloyd | I found those overkill for my personal use, but they would be nice in a larger environment |
| 02:25.36 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu: I hadn't run into a prob. yet but thanks for the heads up |
| 02:25.55 | vmiimu | pingfloyd: yea, this is just a learning exercise at home ... |
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| 02:26.33 | pingfloyd | Probably script is the way to go then |
| 02:26.56 | Eduard_Munteanu | I doubt it. More likely scripting certain policies. |
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| 02:27.42 | Eduard_Munteanu | The last thing you want to worry about is implementing a rotation mechanism or such. :) |
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| 02:27.53 | vmiimu | pingfloyd: rsync or the lvm snaps take care of files. What's a good option for automated full image? I can use clonezilla but that involves rebooting w/ a live cd -- any suggestions? |
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| 02:28.10 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: ew, don't do image backups |
| 02:28.28 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu: rsnapshot can handle the rotations |
| 02:28.53 | pingfloyd | I would approach image as something to merely get a, sane restore environment going |
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| 02:29.03 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu: Please tell me why this would be a bad idea? Since in my head it sounds like a 'easy' restore? |
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| 02:29.15 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: you can use LVM snapshots for image backups too |
| 02:29.23 | pingfloyd | So really only need one image which is optional and more a question of your RTO goal |
| 02:29.29 | vmiimu | pingfloyd: I see, so a image of a 'clean base' and then file backups for the rest? |
| 02:30.02 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: it makes it difficult to write policy such as "don't backup my porn". :) |
| 02:30.21 | pingfloyd | The idea is say the system goes completely tits up. You restore your image and then from there restore from the backups. |
| 02:30.39 | pingfloyd | vmiimu, yeah |
| 02:31.03 | pingfloyd | That gives you full recovery plus granularity |
| 02:31.15 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: it's also likely larger overall, since you also back up empty space and what not. |
| 02:31.31 | pingfloyd | So then you practically got almost any scenario covered |
| 02:31.58 | vmiimu | Eduad_Munteanu: I agree about the space issue. But I was thinking a monthly image? But I see your guys point |
| 02:32.38 | pingfloyd | Maybe two copies of the image if fresh install would be a problem |
| 02:33.12 | pingfloyd | I.e. a backup copy of the image |
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| 02:33.33 | pingfloyd | Me, at home I just do fresh install and then restore data and settings |
| 02:34.01 | vmiimu | Since if one drive on a multidisk lvm goes, the whole thing goes -- then is it better not to use multidisk's w/ lvm unless you have raid? |
| 02:34.16 | pingfloyd | At work, you usually want a backup strategy with decent RTO and RPO both |
| 02:34.51 | pingfloyd | At home RTO isn't usually important. |
| 02:35.06 | Eduard_Munteanu | vmiimu: depending on the data in question, if you're going to do a full backup once in a while, consider compressing it. And if you want to compress it, you might want to exclude non-compressible data from being compressed. |
| 02:35.15 | vmiimu | pingfloyd: RTO = restore time? RPO ?? |
| 02:35.46 | Eduard_Munteanu | That and just about any sort of policy is rather difficult to acheive with an image backup. |
| 02:35.53 | pingfloyd | vmiimu, if your goal is learning experience for getting an admin job, I would treat home as if it is a production scenario |
| 02:36.34 | pingfloyd | I.e. try to simulate the dilemmas of production systems |
| 02:36.41 | Tramp | in a production environment you have redundant systems and images to install from |
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| 02:39.16 | Tramp | vmiimu: I'd start with use-cases. i.e. what is it you want to protect against. I had multiple "accidental deletions" (or even not so accidental deletions) but never a complete system failure. |
| 02:39.36 | vmiimu | Tramp: gotcha |
| 02:40.13 | Tramp | and in case of a system failure, I'd do what pingfloyd said: reinstall, then "merge" the config from backup files |
| 02:40.45 | Eduard_Munteanu | That's a good reason to not rely on RAID for preservation. |
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| 02:41.51 | Eduard_Munteanu | RAID is only good for high availability or performance reasons, not backups. |
| 02:42.54 | vmiimu | Eduard_Munteanu: I was mentioned raid earlier in the context of hardware failure |
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| 02:43.18 | vmiimu | but yea, i wouldn't consider raid a backup solution |
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| 02:45.23 | vmiimu | thanks guys for all you input -- the clarification re. image / file backups has been very helpful |
| 02:45.35 | Tramp | the only HW-failure I had was out-of the box. I replace disks every 2 or 3 years for larger capacity ones anyways. So IMHO RAID in a home-setup is overrated - but ymmv |
| 02:45.59 | vmiimu | Tramp -- yea I wouldn't go that route either. |
| 02:46.34 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: it sort of used to be somewhat nice for performance reasons, but ever since SSDs not so much... |
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| 02:47.25 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: yeah, may be an issue - but I never had (in a home setup) I/O bound stuff, as far as I remember |
| 02:48.10 | Tramp | I even like 5400 or 5900 rpm disks - cooler, less energy, less noise |
| 02:48.17 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: mm, I'd say most home stuff is I/O-bound. |
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| 02:48.58 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: it is? The only stuff I can think of is making backups .... |
| 02:49.59 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: booting up, starting programs, building packages... |
| 02:50.57 | Eduard_Munteanu | Granted, it often is a start-up delay thing, given ordinary PCs have quite a bit of RAM these days. |
| 02:51.02 | Tramp | ok. Booting I do rarely (and this is where SSD really shines!). If you start lots of different programs ... well maybe. And packages I don't build |
| 02:51.20 | Tramp | yeah |
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| 02:51.55 | Tramp | I have a 64GB ssd for system partitions. That really speeds things up. |
| 02:52.10 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: yeah, that's what I was thinking of, SSDs do improve the user experience quite a bit. |
| 02:52.20 | Tramp | absolutely. |
| 02:53.02 | Eduard_Munteanu | There are a few Linux things aiming to use SSDs as transparent caches for HDDs, you might want to look into that. |
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| 02:53.24 | Eduard_Munteanu | Instead of dedicating the SSD to something in particular. |
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| 02:53.54 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: thanks for the hint, I'll give it a look |
| 02:54.18 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcache |
| 02:54.35 | Eduard_Munteanu | Merged in Linux 3.10, it seems. |
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| 02:56.47 | Tramp | Interesting. As a matter of fact, I have only one third of the SSD in use and was always wondering, what to do with the rest |
| 02:57.38 | Dennix | you shouldnt use fot /tmp |
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| 02:59.24 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: also consider a Flash-aware filesystem for the SSD, ext3/4 aren't great wear-levelling-wise, at least not in the default settings. |
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| 03:00.14 | Tramp | well, I did some research on that and found multiple articles which stated that all this wear-leveling is done in firmware and that you can basically write a SSD for years before it breaks |
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| 03:01.40 | Eduard_Munteanu | That's true, though wear-levelling algorithms can't prevent all unnecessary wear from improper filesystems. |
| 03:01.55 | Tramp | it sounds that this was an issue with first (second...) generation SSDs. Now it's just an urban myth, like the "you have to overwrite HDs 20 times to erase data", which was true 15 years ago |
| 03:02.25 | Eduard_Munteanu | I wish we did all wear-levelling in software at the filesystem level. |
| 03:03.13 | Eduard_Munteanu | For instance the flash controller can't really override system policies such as "commit data to the journal this often". |
| 03:03.40 | Eduard_Munteanu | It has to obey or else you can lose important data on power failures. |
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| 03:04.41 | Eduard_Munteanu | Sure, the lifespans in terms of write cycles increased greatly. |
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| 03:05.40 | Dennix | use F2FS? |
| 03:06.01 | Eduard_Munteanu | Dennix: one of many options, yes |
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| 03:06.40 | Eduard_Munteanu | Also JFFS, UDF, NILFS, btrfs in ssd mode, F2FS, YAFFS ... |
| 03:07.04 | Dennix | now that just makes thing more confused :) |
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| 03:07.31 | Eduard_Munteanu | Well, not all of those are Flash-specific, some are just log-structured. |
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| 03:09.57 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: sure, but the journal can "wander" on the flash. i.e. the logical location (presented to the FS) does not have to be the same physical location over time |
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| 03:12.13 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: yes, but if your filesystem does a lot of journal transactions, there's no way the controller can delay or prevent them. |
| 03:12.32 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: I mean you still need system / fs-level policy to deal with that |
| 03:13.06 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: maybe I don't get it. But the controller can simply write to a different physical location with every access |
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| 03:13.44 | shawnbon206 | hey guys. question: i am on jessie i want to install the wine64 package. am i wasting my time trying to get win64 apps to work in linux? or is it somewhat plausible? |
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| 03:15.38 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: yes, I'm just saying the filesystem behavior matters too. A bad filesystem will do more write and wear out the device as a whole more quickly. |
| 03:16.05 | Eduard_Munteanu | Since the writes have to happen. |
| 03:16.23 | Tramp | sure - but not to the same physical location |
| 03:16.39 | Eduard_Munteanu | shawnbon206: do you even have a 64bit-only Windows app? |
| 03:16.53 | Tramp | but I have to do more research on that - thanks for your information |
| 03:16.54 | zykotick9 | shawnbon206: you might be surprised by what the wine64 package actually is in debian... |
| 03:16.57 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: still, that wears out a cell somewhere else |
| 03:17.30 | shawnbon206 | zykotick9 a helper package to install wine32m |
| 03:17.31 | shawnbon206 | ? |
| 03:17.33 | shawnbon206 | not that one |
| 03:17.42 | kbr729472 | if i'm using debian stable, does that mean i will have thunar 1.2.3 for another year and a half or two when jessie becomes stable? |
| 03:17.44 | zykotick9 | oh you know then ;) |
| 03:17.57 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: btw: http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html - an article I remember. In 2005 he stated you can write to a 64GB SSD with 80MB/s for 51 years nonstop |
| 03:18.12 | Eduard_Munteanu | shawnbon206: if you want to run Windows apps on a 64bit distro you just need the ordinary Wine package, generally, not Wine64. |
| 03:18.22 | shawnbon206 | http://packages.debian.org/jessie/wine64 zykotick9 |
| 03:18.33 | Tramp | !newer wine |
| 03:18.34 | dpkg | The wine-unstable packages in Debian are very out of date and possibly not what you want. For unofficial, newer versions of these packages for jessie/sid, see http://dev.carbon-project.org/debian/wine-unstable/ . These packages can be backported to wheezy with a little work, ask me about <ssb>. Alternatively, the commercial <cxoffice> offers a recent wine with support. |
| 03:18.45 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: if you write to the same location? |
| 03:18.54 | Eduard_Munteanu | That sounds likely, yeah. |
| 03:19.07 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: you don't write to the same location. the controller spreads it over the whole 64GB |
| 03:19.26 | zykotick9 | shawnbon206: oh... thanks. good luck BTW. |
| 03:19.42 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: I mean the same logical location. If you only write one particular location ever, the controller happily moves it around because the rest of it is accounted as free. |
| 03:19.48 | shawnbon206 | Eduard_Munteanu i was asking about win-32 aplications . the question was "is it feasable" |
| 03:19.57 | Tramp | as with any HD, the logical->physical mapping can change. In case of a HDD it changes rarely (reallocation) in an ssd it changes all the time |
| 03:19.57 | shawnbon206 | man you people dont know how to read? |
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| 03:20.42 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: but you say it yourself: The controller moves it around - to wear the physical locations evenly |
| 03:20.45 | Eduard_Munteanu | shawnbon206: it should work these days... it is a common misconception, hence my answer. |
| 03:20.56 | shawnbon206 | thanks tramp |
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| 03:21.51 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: and if the SDD is full, I'd expect it to swap "rarely used" stuff with "heavily used" stuff regularly |
| 03:21.57 | Tramp | SSD |
| 03:21.59 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: the thing is full writes will likely wear a cell out the quickest, than writing to the same cell. |
| 03:22.38 | Tramp | Eduard_Munteanu: hmm. well, if it does not move stuff around, then you're right. That's what I'd have to research. |
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| 03:22.56 | shawnbon206 | thats under standable Eduard_Munteanu. i work in a support channel myself, i like to take peoples questions at face value unless they dont make sense in any interpretation |
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| 03:23.53 | Eduard_Munteanu | shawnbon206: note Wine64 and Wine can coexist... if you do things right you get a mixed 32/64-bit prefix like on Windows. |
| 03:24.13 | shawnbon206 | i may install both |
| 03:25.09 | Eduard_Munteanu | Tramp: that's assuming it *does* move things around, it just has more liberty to do so if you only write to one logical location in particular. ;) |
| 03:25.10 | shawnbon206 | this is for a friends computer. i never had any use for wine myself hence my ignorance |
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| 03:26.25 | GJdan | Can you install wheezy with gpt partitioning? |
| 03:26.40 | shawnbon206 | yes |
| 03:26.56 | shawnbon206 | use grub2 |
| 03:27.11 | zykotick9 | GJdan: from expert install on netinst you certain can |
| 03:27.15 | Eduard_Munteanu | shawnbon206: normally you want to install Wine by default, and only use Wine64 for certain apps that need it. You shouldn't use a common prefix for all your apps anyway. |
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| 03:27.57 | Eduard_Munteanu | Since it's common to get a broken prefix and it's easier if you just need to reinstall that particular thing. |
| 03:28.07 | bongodosmcpheedo | Hey, I'm using a ruby script to iterate over all files in a directory but I cannot see a pattern in which files are being selected. In what order are files selected? It's debian squeeze with ext 3 if that matters |
| 03:29.04 | GJdan | ah okay I've been feeling my way around the text insstaller, but it doesn't seem to give the option |
| 03:29.38 | zykotick9 | GJdan: i don't thing the regular install will offer it - BUT if you have a BIG drive, it should use it automajically |
| 03:29.41 | Eduard_Munteanu | bongodosmcpheedo: it's up to the filesystem if it uses readdir() I think |
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| 03:30.16 | GJdan | I want to do raid1 gpt partition |
| 03:30.28 | GJdan | will try expert install I suppose |
| 03:30.39 | zykotick9 | GJdan: if you aren't familiar, don't let "expert install" scare you, it isn't to different from regular ;) |
| 03:31.13 | GJdan | aye, I wasn't sure if it was just going to offer me options I'd rather not bother with, but I'm not too scared, just lazy :) |
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| 03:37.16 | shawnbon206 | Tramp that link has two different packages called win32 which seem to be the same? "wine" or "wine32" |
| 03:37.38 | shawnbon206 | !newer wine |
| 03:37.38 | dpkg | The wine-unstable packages in Debian are very out of date and possibly not what you want. For unofficial, newer versions of these packages for jessie/sid, see http://dev.carbon-project.org/debian/wine-unstable/ . These packages can be backported to wheezy with a little work, ask me about <ssb>. Alternatively, the commercial <cxoffice> offers a recent wine with support. |
| 03:38.43 | GJdan | ooh, this is nice |
| 03:39.08 | shawnbon206 | wine-unstable_1.7.11-0.1_i386.deb wine32-unstable_1.7.11-0.1_i386.deb whats the difference |
| 03:41.08 | GJdan | if I was to guess, the wine32 is actually meant for a 64bit system, or else nothing? |
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| 03:42.10 | Eduard_Munteanu | shawnbon206: perhaps wine is a metapackage? |
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| 03:42.45 | GJdan | I like that idea more |
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| 03:55.25 | GJdan | hmm, it wants me to choose the kernel to install, what's the different between the offered linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3,2.0-4-amd64? |
| 03:56.25 | dvs | GJdan: linux-image-amd64 will always install the latest version |
| 03:56.38 | GJdan | figured, great. Thanks |
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| 04:04.57 | PryMar56 | openssl gmp engine on wheezy. How to use it? I see the engine in the package, but this fails `openssl engine gmp` |
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| 04:17.14 | carrera | Greetings Everyone! :) |
| 04:17.29 | carrera | are daemons called services now? |
| 04:18.38 | jhutchins | carrera: Yes, sometimes. |
| 04:18.40 | jordanm | carrera: a daemon typically provides a service |
| 04:18.53 | jordanm | but it doesn't have to |
| 04:19.15 | jordanm | depends on how you define "daemon" |
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| 04:23.01 | Guest2425 | r3m: t la |
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| 04:24.20 | carrera | jhutchins, jordanm, thanks. For some reason I thought service was a MS Windoz term |
| 04:25.49 | carrera | jordanm, right, e.g. a daemon that checks various hardware temps |
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| 04:27.17 | jhutchins | carrera: Depends on who's using the term, and where. |
| 04:27.56 | jhutchins | There are those who wish to make Linux a slavish Windows clone, there are those who resist. |
| 04:29.28 | jordanm | I don't think I have seen this windows clone group |
| 04:29.33 | jordanm | unless you are talking about UI |
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| 04:35.49 | GJdan | agh silly me, forgot the bootable partition |
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| 04:36.32 | jhutchins | jordanm: There is a broader community of linux that you can look forward to discovering. |
| 04:37.32 | jordanm | jhutchins: I keep pretty up to date on what the community is doing |
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| 04:39.37 | jhutchins | "I've never seen a bald eagle flying. I don't believe they can." |
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| 04:57.56 | prompt32 | i eject my USB stick through the GUI, and i want to insert it back, through my cmd, without the need, to unplug/plug. Is there a way to do it ? |
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| 05:36.19 | neo1691 | I have installed apt-cacher-ng on a PXE server. I will be now installing a client using a bootable USB. The PXE server is also a dhcp server. Will the apt-cacher-ng be able to cache all the packages required for installation? So that next time when I install another client from network, the client can fetch all packages from apt-cacher-ng? |
| 05:36.36 | neo1691 | I have installed apt-cacher-ng on a PXE server. I will be now installing a client using a bootable USB. The PXE server is also a dhcp server. Will the apt-cacher-ng be able to cache all the packages required for installation? So that next time when I install another client from network, the client can fetch all packages from apt-cacher-ng? |
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| 06:24.34 | prompt32 | NOBODY KNOWS : eject/insert a USB stick, from the command line !!! |
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| 06:28.04 | apm1 | if by insert/eject you mean mount/unmount prompt32 its as easy as |
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| 06:28.10 | jaggz|2 | wpa_supplicant is saying my Association request to the driver failed |
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| 06:28.38 | apm1 | prompt32, mount /dev/node /mnt/point |
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| 06:28.58 | prompt32 | noxs, i mean, i eject the USB from the GUI. Now the USB is still pluged-in, but the /dev/??? dont exist any more. |
| 06:29.00 | apm1 | prompt32, umount /mnt/point |
| 06:29.07 | jaggz|2 | my x11 login wont work now at squeeze either.. waits and returns to a gui login |
| 06:29.17 | prompt32 | apm1, i mean, i eject the USB from the GUI. Now the USB is still pluged-in, but the /dev/??? dont exist any more. |
| 06:29.29 | prompt32 | ^ ???? |
| 06:29.38 | apm1 | prompt32, thats cause the USB has been powered off |
| 06:29.44 | apm1 | reinsert it physically |
| 06:30.23 | jaggz|2 | there.. had to pick kde |
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| 06:38.06 | prompt32 | apm1, no other way ? |
| 06:38.50 | prompt32 | apm1, i search around to find a way to triger udevadm, so to plugit again (?). |
| 06:39.38 | apm1 | i've tried it before but its buggy as hell , my recommendation is just plug it again |
| 06:39.58 | apm1 | buggy as in doesn't always work with all sticks i've tried |
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| 06:42.03 | prompt32 | apm1, u mean something like (udevadm trigger --action=change --type= .... ) ? |
| 06:42.18 | apm1 | aye |
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| 06:43.36 | prompt32 | apm1, ,,,, ok (i have try too many times this command today ), |
| 06:44.00 | apm1 | you can use a gui tool though prompt32 |
| 06:44.19 | apm1 | it has worked for me a far lot more than udev triggers |
| 06:44.39 | apm1 | prompt32, gnome-disk-utility |
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| 07:08.38 | jaggz|2 | anyone use an old ibm thinkpad t40/t42? my wifi stopped working |
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| 07:15.55 | mkshft | !newer wine |
| 07:15.55 | dpkg | The wine-unstable packages in Debian are very out of date and possibly not what you want. For unofficial, newer versions of these packages for jessie/sid, see http://dev.carbon-project.org/debian/wine-unstable/ . These packages can be backported to wheezy with a little work, ask me about <ssb>. Alternatively, the commercial <cxoffice> offers a recent wine with support. |
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| 07:16.32 | nkuttler | jaggz|2: um, what kind of card is in there? |
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| 07:17.02 | nkuttler | jaggz|2: and what did you do before it stopped working? |
| 07:17.33 | jaggz|2 | hi nkuttler.. ipw2100 |
| 07:17.46 | jaggz|2 | upgraded to squeeze |
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| 07:24.37 | Roenie | apt-get install tends to install more stuff than apt-get remove and subsequent apt-get autoremove, remove when it turns out the program sucks |
| 07:25.00 | Roenie | is there anything I can do about that, or am I doing it wrong |
| 07:25.13 | Roenie | or both |
| 07:25.15 | GJdan | trying to install headless and start with root user, but it seems the root password I set during the install doesn't work? |
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| 07:25.38 | GJdan | to log into the virtual console |
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| 07:31.28 | waynr | what does "char * const *" mean in C? |
| 07:31.44 | Roenie | nvm |
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| 07:33.57 | jaggz|2 | alias ath0 ath_pci |
| 07:34.10 | jaggz|2 | what's ath_pci? |
| 07:35.25 | ShapeShifter499 | hi |
| 07:35.36 | jaggz|2 | my module is ipw2100 (libipw) for wireless card according to lsmod.. and i always used eth1 |
| 07:35.42 | fireba11 | hi, since update from squeeze to wheezy smartctl reports a temperature of my ssd of 128 degree celcius .. any idea how to fix that? |
| 07:35.52 | ShapeShifter499 | when copying over a new compiled kernel what should the permissions of the modules and kernel be? |
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| 07:37.38 | waynr | ShapeShifter499: if you create a tarball from the kernel build process, the files in that tarball should have the correct permissions for it to be extracted as root from the root of the filesystem |
| 07:37.52 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, how would I do that? |
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| 07:38.09 | waynr | ShapeShifter499: but you can also create some .deb files as output from the build process |
| 07:38.16 | waynr | hold on, i have to take a look at my old script |
| 07:39.00 | waynr | make $MAKE_ARGS deb-pkg |
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| 07:40.33 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, I think the developer of this made this for arch in mind because the deb-pkg errors out |
| 07:40.34 | waynr | should get linux-firmware-image, linux-image, linux-headers, and linux-libc-dev packages |
| 07:41.04 | waynr | hmm, made what for arch? the kernel source repository you are trying to build from? |
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| 07:41.47 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, this is a custom kernel for pogoplug pro arm devices |
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| 07:42.17 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, https://github.com/kref/linux-oxnas/ |
| 07:42.32 | waynr | oh, i see...are you building for a debian arm filesystem? |
| 07:42.35 | pikaro | hi! when using checkinstall make install, my make installs always fail when there are directories to be created, for whatever reason. is there a way to prevent this? normal make installs work alright. |
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| 07:43.11 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, yes but I got this off a arch forum |
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| 07:44.21 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, I can already confirm I can boot the new kernel but I needed to recompile it to enable a driver/module and I wanted to make sure when I copied it I had the right permissions |
| 07:45.05 | waynr | ah, then you probably don't need the .deb packages |
| 07:46.11 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, happen to know what permissions should be set (if not already)? |
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| 07:46.43 | waynr | not off the top of my head, like i said i normally create tarballs using one of the make targets |
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| 07:46.58 | ShapeShifter499 | ah ok |
| 07:47.07 | waynr | try 'make tarbz2-pkg' |
| 07:47.49 | waynr | then 'sudo tar -jxf <archivename>.tar.bz -C <target_root>' |
| 07:48.20 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, oh I'm dumb, typo in my command |
| 07:48.58 | jaggz|2 | if i'm using wpa_supplicant, what do i set with iwconfig key? |
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| 07:49.29 | waynr | jaggz|2: if you're using wpa_supplicant i don't think you need to set the iwconfig key value |
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| 07:50.26 | jaggz|2 | hmm.. thanks. how do i unset it? |
| 07:50.44 | waynr | iwconfig key off |
| 07:50.54 | waynr | jaggz|2: check this out https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#wpa_supplicant |
| 07:51.13 | jaggz|2 | unknown command |
| 07:51.51 | jaggz|2 | yeah, read that page over and over... |
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| 07:52.44 | waynr | jaggz|2: this is what my wlan0 interfaces looks like: https://paste.debian.net/78111/ |
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| 07:53.02 | waynr | use that, then add new networks to /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 07:53.17 | waynr | whenever you add a new network, run 'wpa_cli reconfigure' |
| 07:53.26 | jaggz|2 | is it wrong that i'm using network/interfaces for wpasupplicant config instead of wpa_supplicant.conf? |
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| 07:53.50 | waynr | no, but doing it that way you'll have to change /etc/network/interfaces each time you enter a different network |
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| 07:54.12 | waynr | the setup showing in that paste will set you up in so-called "roaming" mode |
| 07:54.23 | jaggz|2 | only one anyway.. laptop at home |
| 07:54.24 | waynr | but you can also use a graphical network manager if that sounds like a hassle |
| 07:54.39 | waynr | i personally think the GUI is more of a hassle |
| 07:54.48 | jaggz|2 | upgraded to squeeze and wifi broke |
| 07:55.02 | waynr | broke how? |
| 07:55.21 | jaggz|2 | cant install the guis now anyway ... :} |
| 07:56.11 | jaggz|2 | broke in that I can see my ssid in iwlist scanning, but it says unassociated.. once I set a key it says it's associated.. but I never used to set a key with iwconfig key anyway. |
| 07:56.37 | waynr | oh, strange |
| 07:56.38 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, I get this error now: dpkg-gencontrol: error: current host architecture 'armel' does not appear in package's architecture list (amd64) |
| 07:56.52 | waynr | i've never used iwconfig for key management with wifi networks so *shrug* |
| 07:57.10 | jaggz|2 | and wpa_supplicant is sending out errors saying the driver association request failed (that might not be the exact error). and it says the preshared key might be wrong |
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| 07:57.25 | waynr | ShapeShifter499: you are getting that error when you try to install the resuling .deb packages? |
| 07:57.42 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, no still trying to package/compile |
| 07:57.51 | jaggz|2 | well.. .thanks a lot for the help |
| 07:57.54 | jaggz|2 | sighs. |
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| 07:58.00 | jaggz|2 | old thinkpad t40.. nice computer imo |
| 07:58.07 | waynr | jaggz|2: sounds nice |
| 07:58.07 | jaggz|2 | ipw2100 wifi card in it |
| 07:58.25 | waynr | i would double check the password |
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| 07:58.46 | waynr | or if iwconfig works for you, then good on you--use that |
| 07:59.26 | waynr | ShapeShifter499: that is strange. so are you compiling this on the target system? |
| 07:59.46 | jaggz|2 | well.. I think wpa is needed because the card doesn't support wpa |
| 07:59.57 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, no but I guess I could copy the entire source over |
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| 08:00.00 | jaggz|2 | so... software support for the encryption is the reason for that I think |
| 08:00.06 | jaggz|2 | I still don't know how to unset the key.. |
| 08:00.10 | GJdan | aight, I still don't know why what I tried didn't work, but I solved the problem anyways :\ |
| 08:00.11 | jaggz|2 | iwconfig key off doesn't work |
| 08:01.35 | waynr | ShapeShifter499: I would try 'make tarbz2-pkg' to create the tarball...might be simpler |
| 08:01.52 | jaggz|2 | ok.. it does work. i must have typed the command wrong |
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| 08:03.24 | jaggz|2 | waynr, any alias'es needed in /etc/modprobe.d/ ? |
| 08:03.35 | ShapeShifter499 | waynr, and that worked, thanks |
| 08:05.08 | waynr | jaggz|2: not sure, i've never had to touch anything in /etc/modprobe.d |
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| 08:10.46 | jaggz|2 | sighs |
| 08:10.49 | jaggz|2 | thanks a lot, agian. |
| 08:10.56 | jaggz|2 | again. |
| 08:11.19 | jaggz|2 | where's this 169.254.0.0 route coming from? |
| 08:11.37 | jaggz|2 | maybe that was when I was using a virtual machine .. |
| 08:11.58 | jaggz|2 | oh.. hey.. I'm up |
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| 08:13.43 | waynr | 169.254.0.0 is a subnet typically used for self-assigned IP addresses in a network without a dhcp server |
| 08:13.46 | jaggz|2 | except my fan is noisy and the system doesn't like to boot because of a fan error.. need to buy a replacement for that :) |
| 08:14.16 | jaggz|2 | my lan is a 192. one.. I think this must have been from virtualbox or whatever that was called.. from like 5 years ago .. heh. |
| 08:14.45 | jaggz|2 | I think my problem was a combination of the wrong driver and possibly the wrong password... I had done the password multiple times before, to ensure I did it right.. but after you mentioned it I did it again |
| 08:15.02 | jaggz|2 | and it returned a string which I used in the past, but didn't work then -- perhaps the driver issue at the time complicated things. |
| 08:15.04 | waynr | supposedly if all computers in such a DHCP-less network follow some discovery protocol it should b possible for each to assign itself a unique address in a relatively small network |
| 08:15.29 | jaggz|2 | ohh.. interesting |
| 08:15.39 | waynr | at least, i think that's what it is |
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| 08:16.11 | jaggz|2 | so much stuff is broken after this upgrade.. it's such a sloppy looking boot :) |
| 08:16.21 | waynr | networking isn't my strongest area...lost out on a particularly nice job because of that recently :( |
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| 08:16.33 | jaggz|2 | aww |
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| 08:16.57 | waynr | i've been getting better though |
| 08:17.16 | jaggz|2 | what kinds of questions did you mess up on? |
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| 08:18.02 | waynr | the interviewer drew a very simplified diagram of a load-balancing network with frontend and backend servers |
| 08:18.23 | waynr | and described intermittent reports of inability users occasionally not being able to access content |
| 08:18.28 | jaggz|2 | what's the proper way to have an init.d script run at the current runlevel? just do a symlink by hand? |
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| 08:18.41 | waynr | upgrade-rc.d |
| 08:18.42 | jaggz|2 | mmhmm.. go on |
| 08:18.56 | waynr | just run that by itself and you'll see the proper calling conventions |
| 08:19.16 | jaggz|2 | thanks |
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| 08:19.53 | waynr | well long story short, the problem turned out to be denial-of-service by TCP SYN flood |
| 08:20.14 | waynr | which i was not able to diagnose (and this was the "easy" first question) |
| 08:20.33 | jaggz|2 | ugh |
| 08:20.44 | waynr | the solution, i later researched, is TCP SYN cookies which is implemented in the Linux kernel |
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| 08:21.31 | waynr | i mean, i understand the problem down to the low-level kernel programming concepts, but my experience with networking and system administration is somewhat lacking |
| 08:21.39 | jaggz|2 | can you analyse packet dumps now? |
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| 08:22.13 | waynr | yeah, i use it sometimes to figure out firewall problems |
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| 08:22.21 | waynr | becoming more familiar with the pcap-filter syntax |
| 08:22.40 | waynr | by 'it' i mean tcpdump |
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| 08:23.36 | jaggz|2 | nod |
| 08:23.45 | jaggz|2 | (no upgrade-rc.d script by the way) |
| 08:24.21 | jaggz|2 | on another note.. not sure if this is good practice for you or not... but I was using postgresql-8.3 and now 9.1 is installed as well, but there are no startup scripts in init.d nor rc.2/ for it |
| 08:24.25 | jaggz|2 | 8.3 is there |
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| 08:25.05 | waynr | there are separate startup scripts? |
| 08:25.20 | waynr | are you sure there is no upgrade-rc.d? |
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| 08:25.37 | waynr | are you trying to run as root or your normal user? |
| 08:26.08 | waynr | sorry |
| 08:26.11 | waynr | it's update-rc.d |
| 08:26.15 | waynr | not upgrade |
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| 08:37.03 | jaggz|2 | re.. sorry, went afk |
| 08:37.06 | jaggz|2 | ahhh |
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| 08:37.14 | jaggz|2 | root |
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| 08:37.46 | jaggz|2 | yeah.. I think because people run multiple versions of db servers concurrently.. |
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| 08:44.40 | waynr | oh right, that makes sense |
| 08:44.44 | jaggz|2 | :) |
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| 09:03.00 | nyuszika7h | hi, how can I install the 32-bit version of libncursesw on wheezy? |
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| 09:06.29 | petern_ | nyuszika7h, set up multiarch (assuming it's not) then install libncursesw:i386 |
| 09:07.09 | babilen | nyuszika7h: What have you tried so far and what was the outcome? Did you configure multiarch and used it as indicated by petern_ ? (not everything is co-installable at the moment though_) |
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| 09:07.25 | nyuszika7h | babilen: nothing, but this sounds bad: |
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| 09:07.33 | babilen | dpkg: paste |
| 09:07.34 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 09:07.42 | nyuszika7h | "The following packages will be REMOVED: build-essential cpp ..." |
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| 09:07.46 | nyuszika7h | yeah I know |
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| 09:08.02 | dFence | gooooood morning GMT-Drupalenses |
| 09:08.29 | nyuszika7h | aptitude says the i386 versions conflict with the amd64 ones |
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| 09:08.32 | babilen | nyuszika7h: Well, there is very little we can do to help you with that if you don't show us your command, its entire output + additional information. (those packages might have been up for removal for a while now) |
| 09:08.40 | nyuszika7h | sec |
| 09:08.46 | babilen | brb |
| 09:09.13 | lapache | Hello, why a coova-chilli package doesn't exists ?? there is only a chillispot package but seems to be forgotten |
| 09:09.21 | shawnbon206 | <---------- i was right |
| 09:09.27 | nyuszika7h | http://sprunge.us/bNHM |
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| 09:10.16 | petern_ | Ah you didn't say -dev |
| 09:10.24 | nyuszika7h | yeah sorry |
| 09:10.34 | nyuszika7h | and I meant libncurses as that's what fbc is complaining about |
| 09:11.02 | nyuszika7h | not actually sure if -dev is needed |
| 09:11.13 | petern_ | if you're compiling, you need dev |
| 09:11.14 | petern_ | otherwise, no |
| 09:11.24 | nyuszika7h | well, fbc is a compiler |
| 09:11.34 | nyuszika7h | for FreeBASIC |
| 09:11.38 | petern_ | doesn't matter |
| 09:11.47 | petern_ | are you compiling fbc? |
| 09:11.49 | nyuszika7h | nope |
| 09:12.15 | nyuszika7h | I already installed it with the install.sh it had, didn't seem to be compiling but it worked anyway |
| 09:12.23 | bullgard4 | [Debian 7.3] /var/log/fsck/checkroot: "rootdebian: clean, 23824/1222992 files, 1649234/4882432 blocks." How is the term »rootdebian« defined? |
| 09:12.28 | petern_ | then you probably don't need the dev package |
| 09:12.32 | nyuszika7h | well fbc now works, time to try compiling |
| 09:12.40 | nyuszika7h | with it |
| 09:12.49 | nyuszika7h | (sorry for so much enter) |
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| 09:16.11 | eject_ck | Hi all |
| 09:16.20 | eject_ck | On SID, I have .deb package depends on linux-headers package (which is missing in my distro and called linux-headers-3.4-amd64 : uname -a Linux debian 3.12-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.12.8-1 (2014-01-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux). I've installed it with dpkg -i --ignore-depends=linux-headers /home/src/desktopvideo-9.8-amd64.deb and it works well, but when I use aptitude or apt-get it always require to remove it because of unsatisfied dependencies. How can I tell apt |
| 09:17.25 | Myrtti | you got cut off at "How can I tell ap" |
| 09:18.26 | eject_ck | How can I tell apt to keep that package with unsatisfied deps or how can I tell it that I have linux-headers package installed ? |
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| 09:24.58 | bullgard4 | eject_ck: " to keep that package with unsatisfied deps " is no good idea unless you are really knowing what you are doing. |
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| 09:25.25 | nyuszika7h | /usr/bin/ld.bfd.real: cannot find -lncurses |
| 09:25.34 | nyuszika7h | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:25.35 | petern_ | eject_ck, linux-headers-amd64 provides linux-headers |
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| 09:26.44 | nyuszika7h | nvm, installing lib32ncurses5-dev fixed it |
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| 09:27.36 | jerem` | hi guys |
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| 09:28.21 | jerem` | everyone coul be able to create its own dns zone |
| 09:28.50 | jerem` | for instance, what's happen if there is several dns zone .example.com |
| 09:29.05 | jerem` | defined on the web |
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| 09:29.16 | nyuszika7h | use "example.com." |
| 09:29.37 | nyuszika7h | this sounds like a question for ##networking though |
| 09:29.44 | jerem` | alright :) |
| 09:30.10 | nyuszika7h | if you use "example.com." it makes sure you're using the root DNS zone, IIR |
| 09:30.12 | nyuszika7h | C |
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| 09:35.01 | bezaban | jerem`: glue records should point to the authorative dns server for that domain, but yes you need to trust your DNS server. |
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| 09:35.55 | eject_ck | petern_: I have it (amd64) installed, but when I'm trying to install desktopvideo with dpkg -i - it says that there is unsatisfied dependency |
| 09:36.02 | eject_ck | linux-headers |
| 09:36.09 | eject_ck | how can I fix this issue ? |
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| 09:37.57 | jerem` | bezaban: alright, so there an authoritative directive to define which server handle example.com. |
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| 09:41.27 | bezaban | jerem`: the TLDs (.com, .net etc) maintain a list over the servers that are authorative for each domain. Any DNS server can of course override and supply whatever answer the admin seems fit though. |
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| 09:44.01 | jerem` | bezaban: how can the TLD get a list of authoritative domain server ? |
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| 09:45.13 | bezaban | jerem`: you pay an annual fee via your registrar and they update. This is getting a little offtopic for debian though. There are plenty of good articles detailing DNS :) |
| 09:45.25 | petern_ | eject_ck, linux-headers-amd64 (no numbers) provides linux-headers, there should be no unsatisfied dependency for linux-headers |
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| 09:47.27 | eject_ck | petern_: are you kidding me? |
| 09:47.38 | eject_ck | can you read what I've wrote before ? |
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| 09:47.59 | eject_ck | dpkg says other |
| 09:47.59 | dpkg | no idea, eject_ck |
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| 09:48.37 | bezaban | eject_ck: unstable can be.. unstable. |
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| 09:48.46 | nkuttler | !debian-next |
| 09:48.46 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net). |
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| 09:48.54 | nkuttler | eject_ck: and not supported here |
| 09:49.39 | eject_ck | oh, ok |
| 09:49.42 | eject_ck | thank you all! |
| 09:49.48 | bezaban | good luck :) |
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| 09:51.30 | eject_ck | yeah :0 |
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| 09:53.25 | jerem` | yep ok thank you bezaban |
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| 10:01.11 | petern_ | eject_ck, are you kidding me? you wrote linux-headers-3.4-amd64 before, which incidentally isn't even in sid any more... |
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| 10:05.48 | bullgard4 | [Debian 7.3] /var/log/fsck/checkroot: "rootdebian: clean, 23824/1222992 files, 1649234/4882432 blocks." How is the term »rootdebian« defined? |
| 10:06.12 | eject_ck | petern_: incidentally isn't even in sid any more. Any way to fix this ? |
| 10:06.32 | eject_ck | Proper way is to change .deb's dependencies |
| 10:06.44 | eject_ck | or ignore it as I did |
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| 10:14.04 | cek | I want to create my own repo for private packages. What tools is best userfriendly? |
| 10:15.11 | OpenTokix | cek: Let me know if you find one, - private repo is a pain and all tools for it seems to be pretty bad. |
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| 10:15.58 | cek | OpenTokix, that's crap. private repos are essential in enterprise environments. |
| 10:17.32 | OpenTokix | cek: There is tools for local mirror and such, but to have your own packages with multiple versions and stuf, is not simple from what I have seen |
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| 10:18.00 | woffs | !reprepro |
| 10:18.00 | dpkg | reprepro (formerly mirrorer) is a tool to produce, manage and sync a local repository of Debian packages. See /usr/share/doc/reprepro/short-howto.gz after package installation to set up a repository. Alternatively, ask me about <dpkg-scanpackages>. |
| 10:18.01 | cek | http://askubuntu.com/a/383718/103364 wondering whether this works for debian |
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| 10:24.28 | cek | will dpkg-scanpackages -m create a "trivial archive"? |
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| 10:30.57 | fsf-free | guys |
| 10:31.05 | fsf-free | I want to switch to debian |
| 10:31.29 | cek | !next |
| 10:31.31 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 10:35.25 | fsf-free | ok |
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| 10:36.16 | fsf-free | debian xfce anyone ? |
| 10:36.22 | woffs | fsf-free: yes! |
| 10:36.43 | fsf-free | woffs, does debian still use xfce 4.8 |
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| 10:37.01 | woffs | fsf-free: I had to patch xfdesktop to show thumbnails |
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| 10:37.52 | fsf-free | woffs, what all DE is supported on debian as of now ? |
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| 10:39.13 | woffs | wishes someone would backport xfce-4.10 to wheezy-backports |
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| 10:44.18 | cek | how do i tell debian leave /usr/local alone. I know what I'm doing. |
| 10:44.32 | petern_ | what's touching it? |
| 10:44.54 | cek | dh_usrlocal mainly |
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| 10:45.21 | Radditz | hello |
| 10:45.28 | mjt | debian does not touch /usr/local |
| 10:45.28 | Radditz | what must I do to become a developer for debian? |
| 10:46.49 | mjt | Radditz: consider finding this information to be a necessary IQ test... ;) |
| 10:47.12 | Radditz | mjt: I mean, not to contribute to debian, but to actually be considered a debian developer |
| 10:47.33 | Radditz | mjt: I want to know how difficult it is to become one, how much one has to contribute, and for how long |
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| 10:48.01 | cek | mjt, how you evet built a package with /usr/local files? |
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| 10:48.47 | mjt | cek: generally software is configured to install into /usr, not /usr/local |
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| 10:48.50 | cousin_luigi | greetings |
| 10:49.12 | cousin_luigi | Does anyone else have problems installing mysql-server-5.5 on wheezy/i386 ? |
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| 10:49.54 | nkuttler | !tell cousin_luigi about bat |
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| 10:52.46 | cousin_luigi | nkuttler: http://pastebin.com/UKYQJCfA |
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| 10:55.23 | ChrisH | cousin_luigi: 1. you did not carefully read what the bot told you... 2. I assume its debian-sys-maint; ask the bot /msg dpkg debian-sys-maint and check |
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| 10:55.44 | Radditz | can someone please help me? |
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| 10:55.58 | boodie | Hi: I installed WINE, but then learned that it could be a threat ... should I remove it? (I tried to run a game, but it didn't work ...) |
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| 11:02.32 | cousin_luigi | ChrisH: http://pastebin.com/HRDj2gLT |
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| 11:03.15 | cousin_luigi | ChrisH: and about 2, no. This happened after a normal update. |
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| 11:04.37 | ChrisH | cousin_luigi: 1. the bot asked to use paste.debian.net and 2. did you check if that user has a correct password assigned? init script does use debian-sys-ma* to start the database. |
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| 11:21.22 | Superman35 | hi, |
| 11:21.24 | Superman35 | What is file extension provision CMD windows on Linux? |
| 11:21.25 | Superman35 | I know little english. |
| 11:21.27 | Superman35 | aim to build android apk files at one time. |
| 11:21.28 | Superman35 | " adb install bin/MyFirstApp-debug.apk " <-- multiple applications at one time, how can I install |
| 11:22.04 | Superman35 | For devices with android operating system from a USB drive to install |
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| 11:22.52 | Superman35 | please help;-) |
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| 11:24.05 | lapache | Hello, why a coova-chilli package doesn't exists ?? there is only a chillispot package but seems to be abandonned |
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| 11:26.45 | RoyBlech | moin |
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| 11:31.07 | cousin_luigi | ChrisH: I'm not sure how to check if that user exists if mysql can't start |
| 11:31.16 | cousin_luigi | ChrisH: is it a new requirement? |
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| 11:40.29 | cousin_luigi | ok, mysql starts but no such user exists |
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| 11:46.20 | petn-randall | lapache: Nobody wanted it yet or nobody packaged it. |
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| 11:59.03 | arafangion | Is there a GUI program I can use to edit menus in the desktop environment? |
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| 12:13.39 | asc232 | arafangion, in Gnome you can use alacarte, in Mate is mozo |
| 12:14.29 | arafangion | Looks like I have that installed, thanks. :) |
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| 12:16.23 | arafangion | Hmm, it's somehow not letting me add a new item. |
| 12:16.44 | arafangion | I mean, I can add it, but it doesn't get into the menus, and it doesn't show in alacarte either. |
| 12:17.42 | arafangion | And mozo isn't a debian package |
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| 12:22.59 | ksk | arafangion: maybe you need to restart gnome to make changes active? |
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| 12:23.58 | arafangion | ksk: That doesn't explain why alacarte itself doesn't see the changes. |
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| 12:38.55 | cardiel | someone got suspend and hibernate working in gnome with jessie? |
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| 12:41.06 | pav5088 | Is the Debian community comfortable with Valve? ...and now the free games for Debian Devs? Even if it's not intended this will stack the Debian voting process in favour of Valve... either buying off existing DDs or encouraging others to join the Debian project just for this purpose. |
| 12:41.32 | petern_ | Is that a support query? |
| 12:41.51 | babilen | pav5088: You are probably looking for #debian-offtopic rather than #debian |
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| 12:42.22 | pav5088 | nods... didn't know there existed such a channel. |
| 12:42.26 | babilen | cardiel: You, naturally, need systemd-logind for that. |
| 12:42.27 | pav5088 | sorry |
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| 12:43.02 | daemonkeeper | We have votes related to valve? |
| 12:43.06 | mjt | babilen: actually this is not exactly offtopic.. |
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| 12:44.02 | babilen | mjt: It isn't a support question and therefore offtopic. We talk about lots of other things related to Debian in #d-ot |
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| 12:52.40 | cardiel | babilen: ok so i need to merge to systemd then? |
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| 12:56.11 | babilen | cardiel: You should have logind already, but I think that you have to actually switch to systemd to use that functionality. There was a -shim package that was being mentioned in the init system debate so I am not entirely sure. fwiw, I switched to systemd some time ago and its fine |
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| 13:01.01 | cardiel | babilen: ok. i will try to switch to systemd then and hope that it solves |
| 13:01.27 | babilen | cardiel: Take a look at https://wiki.debian.org/systemd and have fun! |
| 13:02.00 | darkschneider | hello, there is a way i can find somewhere an old kernel source package (i need linux-source-3.10-3.deb )? |
| 13:02.35 | darkschneider | (apart naturally directly downloading from kernel.org and applying all debian patches if there are, and such) |
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| 13:07.50 | jelly | dpkg, tell darkschneider about sdo |
| 13:08.04 | darkschneider | tx |
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| 13:12.28 | Anticom | Hi all |
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| 13:14.05 | Anticom | I was looking for an offline installation CD/DVD image to download for my vm. Now i found that on CD images there's 650MB of files and on DVD's there's 4.4GB of files. I just wondered why there is so much more on a DVD but the CD is also considered having everything i need for an installation |
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| 13:14.23 | Anticom | Which one would you recommend for running debian in a vm? |
| 13:14.44 | ChrisH | Anticom: do you have internet access during installation? If yes download the netinst image. |
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| 13:15.28 | Anticom | ChrisH I want to use it with Vagrant. Since I'm new to all this I don't know, whether the image will be reinstalled whenever i bring up vagrant |
| 13:15.34 | Anticom | If so a netinst image would be bad :/ |
| 13:16.13 | Devastator | I asked in #debian-mentors @ oftc, but I guess I should have asked here: sometime ago some guys from there were helping me creating a daemon script and they gave me a link to a manual on how to create those but I can't remember it, can someone please help me find it again? Also, is there a mailing list or something that someone could review this script? |
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| 13:16.26 | ChrisH | Anticom: dont know what vagrant is. |
| 13:16.51 | cardiel | babilen: thanks for the help |
| 13:17.07 | Anticom | It sits on top of a VM server and enables setting up a development environment automatically |
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| 13:19.26 | lapache | petn-randall: i can package coova, someone could helping me ? |
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| 13:21.42 | cardiel | babilen: which is the best workaround for installing systemd? hold the package or edit grub command line? |
| 13:21.55 | ChrisH | Anticom: and why does this disallows installing from netinst? |
| 13:22.29 | Anticom | ChrisH if the VM would be completley reinstalled everytime i bring vagrant up, this would result in downloading all the network stuff over and over again, wouldn't it? |
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| 13:23.00 | nkuttler | meh "DROP all -- 220.225.xx.xx anywhere" guy is still able to make http requests... |
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| 13:23.10 | nkuttler | wonders if that's some http header spoofing.. |
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| 13:23.59 | ChrisH | Anticom: most probaly. But I would only clone a once manually created VM |
| 13:24.05 | jelly | gives nkuttler one(1) /usr/bin/tcpdump tool |
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| 13:24.32 | Anticom | ChrisH i'll give the netinst a try and see how vagrant behaves :) |
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| 13:30.22 | Sylvester23 | Hi! |
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| 13:50.27 | babilen | cardiel: I've edited the command line |
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| 13:54.59 | fishsponge | hello! i need to lock our firewall down to only the UK debian repositories... we typically use "ftp.uk.debian.org" - does that have only one IP address?? |
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| 13:55.51 | jhutchins | fishsponge: Why? |
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| 13:56.32 | fishsponge | jhutchins, because on a certain machine within a DMZ, our company rules state it can't have access to the Internet, but it does need updates...! |
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| 13:57.21 | fishsponge | so... does "ftp.uk.debian.org" have only one IP address?? and does "security.debian.org" only have 3 IP addresses? |
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| 13:57.24 | fishsponge | or do they all vary over time? |
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| 13:59.51 | rivarun | fishsponge: even if it's not meant to, you can't bet on it. might want to put something like this together https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/91701/ufw-allow-traffic-only-from-a-domain-with-dynamic-ip-address . or use a local server |
| 14:00.36 | fishsponge | rivarun, so "ftp.uk.debian.org" and "security.debian.org" both have dynamic IPs? |
| 14:00.47 | rivarun | fishsponge: i don't know |
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| 14:03.51 | fishsponge | can anyone else help?? |
| 14:03.52 | fishsponge | so... does "ftp.uk.debian.org" have only one static IP address?? and does "security.debian.org" only have 3 static IP addresses? |
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| 14:05.32 | epsilon | fishsponge: possibe. if ip is depending on geo location, the answer may differ |
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| 14:06.28 | fishsponge | well i'm using "ftp.uk.debian.org" and "security.debian.org" here in the UK... so does that mean they could be dynamic or static depending on my location within the UK? |
| 14:06.33 | epsilon | and ftp[n].[country].debian.org is just a mapping to a popular server in that area |
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| 14:07.20 | fishsponge | according to their web site, "ftp.uk.debian.org" is actually "free.hands.com"... |
| 14:07.51 | fishsponge | but I need to know if it's static or not and if "security.debian.org" is static... |
| 14:08.00 | fishsponge | I guess nobody knows the answer to this... |
| 14:08.29 | epsilon | if you want static, use IP instead of hostname |
| 14:09.04 | fishsponge | I could use the IP, but then when they change their IP it won't work... hence why I need to know if they're static or dynamic... |
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| 14:09.23 | cardiel | babilen: i edited command line also, and it works :) ... great, now it wont need to suspend/hibernate manually via pm |
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| 14:10.54 | epsilon | fishsponge: you know you can add as many sources as you want? |
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| 14:11.13 | epsilon | so if you want to e sure, add dozen servers by IP |
| 14:11.20 | fishsponge | epsilon, yeah, I know... but I only need "ftp.uk.debian.org" and "security.debian.org"... |
| 14:12.01 | babilen | cardiel: w00t! You might want to read http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-1.html in due course |
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| 14:16.29 | seeker61 | anybody a netbean specialist |
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| 14:23.27 | jhutchins | !apt-offline |
| 14:23.27 | dpkg | To use apt on a machine that doesn't have a network connection (if you have a separate machine that does have a network connection), read http://batmat.net/apt-offline/ch3.html . Ask me about <apt-zip>, <apt-walkabout>. |
| 14:23.35 | jhutchins | fishsponge: See above |
| 14:24.24 | chok | How can I tell if syslog is being overrun with more messages than it can handle? I'm running rsyslog 5.8.11-3, Debian 7.3, 64 bit. |
| 14:24.29 | dFence | !flush brain |
| 14:26.40 | ChrisH | chok: IIRC you will either see mixed up lines or lines telling dropped stuff... But I only saw that on high loaded HPUX boxes till now. |
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| 14:29.16 | fishsponge | jhutchins, thanks for your reply... so would could make a copy of the entire repository daily to our own server... |
| 14:29.40 | fishsponge | how many GB/TB is in "ftp.uk.debian.org" and "security.debian.org" ? |
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| 14:30.54 | abrotman | fishsponge: jeez, don't do that |
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| 14:31.00 | abrotman | dpkg: tell fishsponge about approx |
| 14:31.04 | abrotman | dpkg: tell fishsponge about apt-cacher-ng |
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| 14:32.55 | fishsponge | abrotman, we don't need to download everything, in advance, really... we just need access to "ftp.uk.debian.org" and "security.debian.org" from our server, hence why I need to know their IP addresses (if they're static or dynamic, or are in a pool) |
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| 14:33.30 | Etheretic | hello! i've got an upgrade problem - can't install new packages because of 'held' packages. what to do? |
| 14:33.42 | abrotman | fishsponge: your "copy of entire repo" made me think you were doing your own mirror |
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| 14:34.30 | fishsponge | abrotman, well we don't really want to have a mirror... I just need to know the IP addresses (whether they're static or dynamic) of "ftp.uk.debian.org" and "security.debian.org" |
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| 14:35.26 | fishsponge | i've already done an nslookup on both hostnames and now have 4 IP addresses ...but are they static, dynamic or in a pool?? |
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| 14:35.48 | abrotman | fishsponge: they're both RoundRobin ... |
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| 14:36.04 | fishsponge | so each time you do an nslookup you'll get a different IP address? |
| 14:36.14 | abrotman | yes, or use a different mirror with one IP |
| 14:36.43 | fishsponge | i've done an nslookup this morning, and another few now, and all the same IP address... |
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| 14:37.33 | chok | ChrisH: Thanks. I was hoping a particular message would appear in syslog or dmesg or somewhere that I could watch for. I cannot find any documentation about this anywhere. |
| 14:38.28 | Auriga | Hi, can someone help me with installing firefox in Debian 7.3 please? I had an article on it, but the first step is removing ice weasel, which doesn't look safe to do so as it seems to want to remove gnome reliant dependencies. |
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| 14:41.08 | abrotman | fishsponge: one IP is not sufficient? |
| 14:41.24 | abrotman | Auriga: don't do that, use mozilla.debian.net |
| 14:41.27 | fishsponge | abrotman, one IP is sufficient for us... as long as there is only one. |
| 14:41.40 | abrotman | Not sure why it matters? use the same one all the time, put in /etc/hosts/ ? |
| 14:41.43 | abrotman | erm ... /etc/hosts |
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| 14:42.41 | Auriga | abrotman, I think I just found something else... |
| 14:42.42 | fishsponge | i could do that, but if it's a dynamic IP, that then won't work... hence why I need to find out of it's static, dynamic or a pool... |
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| 14:44.24 | Auriga | abrotman, what I have done seems to have worked perfectly & easily. |
| 14:44.31 | Auriga | Thank you for replying though. |
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| 14:48.36 | bar7 | abrotman... remember my problem with nvidia quadro k1100m? it's solved with upgrade to jessie |
| 14:48.37 | bar7 | ;) |
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| 14:50.40 | abrotman | bar7: barely |
| 14:50.52 | abrotman | bar7: I try to pretend nvidia doesn't exist, makes my life easier :) |
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| 14:51.21 | abrotman | fishsponge: so a) use a different main mirror with only one IP, b) find a system like ftp.ch.debian.org that mirrors security.debian.org that only has one IP |
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| 14:52.11 | bar7 | :D |
| 14:52.48 | fishsponge | abrotman, "ftp.uk.debian.org" seems to only have one IP anyway... and "security.debian.org" has 3 IPs... which seem to be the same all day on two external computers and my computer here at work... |
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| 15:01.27 | jerem` | can I ask for iptables here ? |
| 15:01.59 | jerem` | mhh I should ask on iptables channel |
| 15:02.31 | abrotman | jerem`: probably better to ask #netfilter |
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| 15:03.31 | jerem` | alright abrotman |
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| 15:17.31 | halfie | hi, http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/cdimage/daily-builds/unstable/current/amd64/iso-cd/ <== I can installed "sid" using these images, right? |
| 15:18.08 | halfie | s/installed/install |
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| 15:35.30 | gnudna | good morning people |
| 15:35.52 | gnudna | anybody running a database with SSD drives only? |
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| 15:36.24 | mjt | !anyone |
| 15:36.24 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
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| 15:38.14 | abrotman | gnudna: Unless you have a lot of spares, doesn't seem like an awesome idea? |
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| 15:38.53 | gnudna | agreed im iffy on the idea |
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| 15:39.10 | gnudna | but i keep reading how it is not as dangerous |
| 15:39.31 | gnudna | but yes i would have spares if it was an option |
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| 15:40.53 | sKeiths | Hi, i tried doing 'update-rc.d -f gdm remove' as root, but gdm3 still starts. i want mahine to start in text mode and wait until I start X before gui starts. |
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| 15:41.16 | gnudna | instead of gdm try gdm3 |
| 15:41.24 | gnudna | since the service is gdm3 |
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| 15:41.35 | sKeiths | okay. rebooting. be back in 5 |
| 15:41.48 | pfote | gnudna: so whats your question? have some db's running on ssd .. |
| 15:42.23 | gnudna | no i asked to see if it was a good idea |
| 15:42.36 | pfote | as always: depends :-) |
| 15:42.38 | gnudna | im not sure since i have no real world experience with SSD in a DB |
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| 15:43.00 | gnudna | i will say the following the DB in question is pretty busy |
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| 15:43.23 | pfote | it can improve performance significantly, especially with lots small iops |
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| 15:43.44 | gnudna | my worry is longevity |
| 15:44.21 | pfote | some of the ssd's here are in heavy use since years |
| 15:44.25 | gnudna | im not sure we can depend on them surviving the long haul |
| 15:45.24 | gnudna | good to know |
| 15:45.26 | pfote | well a hdd can die as well as a ssd .. so if you're worried take apropriate measures, like a hot standby |
| 15:45.27 | wols | you can't depend on hdds either. they are not worse |
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| 15:45.48 | sKeiths | gnudna: perfect. ty |
| 15:45.49 | gnudna | agreed |
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| 15:45.59 | gnudna | np sKeiths |
| 15:46.11 | gnudna | the idea is have them in raid 10 |
| 15:46.23 | gnudna | but maybe there is a better setup when using SSD |
| 15:46.42 | stwange | I'm trying to install php5-gd on a squeeze server, but it's looking for php5-common (= 5.3.3-7+squeeze18) but 5.3.3-7+squeeze9 is installed (for all PHP packages). There are no outstanding PHP updates so, and sorry if this is a stupid question, what am I missing? |
| 15:46.58 | wols | gnudna: SSDs in RAID are a bad idea |
| 15:47.07 | gnudna | stwange, apt-get update |
| 15:47.21 | stwange | I have done gnudna |
| 15:47.22 | gnudna | wols so what would be a setup that would be ideal? |
| 15:47.32 | wols | gnudna: good backups |
| 15:47.56 | stwange | backups and RAID are different use cases, really |
| 15:47.57 | wols | gnudna: how often do you write to the database? |
| 15:47.59 | ksk | raid is not for backups? and why should ssd raid be a bad thing? |
| 15:48.33 | wols | ksk: it increases latency and you won't really notice the throughput increase. it alos creates problems with things like trim |
| 15:48.39 | gnudna | makes sense wols but raid would not be a backup it would be for the off chance a drive dies prematurely |
| 15:48.40 | stwange | it's because SSDs suffer with writes eventually, but so do hard drives. My concern with RAID (especially RAID 1) is the real possibility that both drives will fail at exactly the same time |
| 15:48.46 | wols | raid is never for backups |
| 15:49.02 | wols | gnudna: then you use at most raid1 |
| 15:49.20 | wols | but: when one drive dies due to write exhaustion, so will the other. so what is the point? |
| 15:49.21 | pfote | we had issues with raid controllers not supporting trim .. softraid doesnt seem to be a problem though |
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| 15:49.48 | gnudna | wols write exhaustion is accounted for |
| 15:50.06 | gnudna | im worried the drive just dies aka controller etc... |
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| 15:50.19 | gnudna | which happens often enough with regular drives |
| 15:50.27 | wols | that's not such a big issue anymore |
| 15:50.33 | stwange | how do you account for it gnudna? Using drives from different batches? Replacing them half way through the use cycle? |
| 15:50.59 | wols | tho, all of this is not exactly debian related. wrong channel for this |
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| 15:51.02 | stwange | I'm not sure you can really say it's not a big issue, the truth is most SSDs are black boxes and we're taking the manufacturers word for their internals |
| 15:51.03 | pfote | gnudna: approach from the other side .. what db do you use, and what are the performance problems? |
| 15:51.06 | gnudna | stwange, when i say account i can at some point start swapping the drives out with new ones and let them rebuild |
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| 15:51.30 | wols | stwange: all storage devices are black boxes |
| 15:51.46 | stwange | wols yeah, but SSDs more than spinning disks |
| 15:51.53 | wols | stwange: no difference |
| 15:52.02 | stwange | they vary massively between manufacturers, and possibly between batches |
| 15:52.09 | stwange | you have numbers for that wols? |
| 15:52.11 | gnudna | pfote, we want to speed up retruned results atm they take approx 4 -6 seconds which makes the site slower than what we would like |
| 15:52.57 | wols | stwange: numbers for a difference? and why wouldn't disks differ? they use the same arm chips as controllers. they have different amount of platters for the same disks, etc. ssds and hdds are both blackboxes |
| 15:53.24 | pfote | gnudna: the queries are properly indexed/optimized, the db server properly configured? |
| 15:53.34 | stwange | yeah but they're very different black boxes, there's a lot more logic on SSDs |
| 15:53.42 | wols | they both don't really store actual data but both actually only GUESS about the data they read, etc |
| 15:53.54 | gnudna | i would like to think so we have a dba who's only job is to optimize |
| 15:53.58 | stwange | you say the chance of them dying prematurely isn't a problem yet, but we've already seen firmware bugs causing lockups |
| 15:54.06 | wols | no, there is the same. hdds have mechanical components however, which SSDs don't |
| 15:54.33 | wols | stwange: yes and we've seen the same in hdds for years. also, have you seen it in _current_ ssds? |
| 15:54.44 | wols | not years. decades actually |
| 15:54.52 | jhambo | Hi All, fresh wheezy install and when I try to start KDE the system hard locks (even ssh unavailable). I suspect the video card which is: VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82Q963/Q965 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02). How can I tell if this card is supposed to be supported? |
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| 15:55.12 | stwange | telling someone that they don't need RAID in SSDs because premature death isn't a problem, and then advocating backups, is just irresponsible advice |
| 15:55.23 | gnudna | in general before deploying i update the intel firmwares to the latest version |
| 15:55.36 | wols | jhambo: it is. it's a GMA 3000 |
| 15:55.56 | wols | stwange: you aren't always advocating backups? |
| 15:56.06 | jhambo | wols: hmmm okay then what would you recommend to start tracking down what is causing the hard lock? |
| 15:56.13 | stwange | instead of RAID wols? No, because that's idiotic. |
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| 15:56.38 | wols | jhambo: serial console if possible with running startx in that console |
| 15:57.06 | wols | stwange: please read above, gnudna wrote about raid10. which is not a good idea |
| 15:57.10 | pfote | gnudna: ram is maxed out? ram always helps :-) |
| 15:57.15 | wols | stwange: but I will stop now. this is all OT |
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| 15:57.36 | gnudna | pfote, on the new server we will have plenty of ram |
| 15:57.39 | wols | jhambo: check if you find any Xorg.0.log |
| 15:57.54 | jhambo | wols: yeah that file exists looking through it now |
| 15:58.08 | gnudna | it was the disk subsystem i was curious about |
| 15:58.11 | wols | jhambo: try live cds |
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| 15:58.36 | gnudna | also lots of misleading info on the internet regarding SSD and databases. |
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| 15:58.56 | wols | gnudna: you ask in the wrong channel |
| 15:59.05 | gnudna | but agreed i think tried and tested is the way to go or maybe some sort of hybrid |
| 15:59.07 | jhambo | wols: first time I've had hardware problems with debian in quite a while |
| 15:59.23 | gnudna | wols i trust like minded opinions ;) |
| 15:59.45 | gnudna | i was looking for real world vs specs on paper |
| 15:59.49 | wols | gnudna: that's a) foolish and b) you waste our time. |
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| 16:01.18 | gnudna | i did not think having a conversation would be foolish as i received some valid opinions but agreed no closer to an answer ;) |
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| 16:02.00 | jhambo | wols: I don't see anything obvious in /var/log/Xorg.0.log but not quite sure what I'm looking for: http://paste.debian.net/78159/ |
| 16:02.58 | wols | jhambo: it looks like it worked fine. ran at least 53 seconds and had enoug working systems to write to disk |
| 16:03.24 | wols | it could be your VT switch that caused problems? |
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| 16:05.28 | jhambo | wols: it hangs a bit after trying to log into KDE. The log in screen comes up fine but after entering user name and pass, a few seconds later - complete hang requiring hard reset |
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| 16:06.47 | wols | jhambo: yes the log shows 18 seconds for X to start and then a VT switch 53 seconds in |
| 16:06.53 | wols | from when is that log? |
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| 16:07.44 | jhambo | wols: ahhh that log is from a time when I didn't try to log into KDE. I did the VT switch to start looking around for the problem. |
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| 16:08.11 | jhambo | wols: dumb question but which logs will show me info from previous boots when the thing hung? |
| 16:08.18 | *** part/#debian JoeE (~JoeE@c-67-162-29-2.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 16:08.51 | wols | there are older logs, all numbered. and the log files have timestamps |
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| 16:12.07 | JoeE | I'm currently running squeeze and I am storing a substantial amount of data in a mysql database (somewhere in the magnitude of 80mil records), and am currently storing it on my scsi drive (dual 73G 10k rpm). Would I see better throughput if I stored the database on a small NAS and left the scsi drives for the os/home/var partitions? |
| 16:12.16 | jhambo | wols: yah the .old Xorg file is completely empty. Not seeing any obvious issues in old dmesg http://paste.debian.net/78164/ |
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| 16:13.22 | SirLagz | JoeE: I doubt it. I think the SCSI drives throughput would be far faster than a NAS. Though the only way to find out would be to benchmark it. |
| 16:13.24 | jhutchins | JoeE: You would probably be better off increasing your memory so the data can ba cached. |
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| 16:13.45 | JoeE | jhutchins: I currently have 4gb ddr2 installed on the server |
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| 16:14.20 | JoeE | but, I believe the tables are being stored as myisam instead of innodb, if that matters at all |
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| 16:15.24 | FastCode | JoeE: it matters, but you should consider the fact that they have different purposes. |
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| 16:16.17 | JoeE | free -m reports the following: 3549 (total) 552 (used) 2996 (free) and used swap is 0, so I'm leaning more towards disk i/o contention as opposed to memory |
| 16:17.16 | jhutchins | JoeE: You may be interested in this: https://raw.github.com/major/MySQLTuner-perl/master/mysqltuner.pl |
| 16:17.47 | FastCode | JoeE: what does it say for cached? |
| 16:17.50 | JoeE | jhutchins: that's awesome; I used that on another server but forgot the name of the utility |
| 16:18.12 | JoeE | -/+ buffers/cache: 85 (used) 3464 (free) |
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| 16:19.02 | jhambo | wols: though I'm running wheezy not ubuntu this seems to be related. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/223870. |
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| 16:19.35 | FastCode | JoeE: hmmm, your cache is almost empty(~500MB) |
| 16:19.48 | FastCode | JoeE: weird. it should be way more than that |
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| 16:20.21 | JoeE | FastCode: any idea what setting that would be? |
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| 16:20.55 | zx2c4 | why has 727708 gone silent? |
| 16:21.44 | JoeE | table_cache is commented out in my.cnf (looks like it defaults to 64) |
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| 16:23.25 | jelly | zx2c4: silent? http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.ctte |
| 16:23.49 | zx2c4 | jelly, yea. no posts since the 21st |
| 16:23.53 | FastCode | JoeE: mysql has too many cache/buffer/memory configuration parameters, I don't think tweaking one or two random ones can fix the problem automagically. but trying won't hurt |
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| 16:25.58 | jelly | zx2c4: oh, that seems to just be gmane. https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/01/msg00422.html is 2014-01-23 (UTC) |
| 16:26.22 | jelly | and hell, rra must be one of the most patient people I've read |
| 16:27.12 | zx2c4 | those are all from 1am on thursday |
| 16:27.13 | zx2c4 | nothing since then |
| 16:27.15 | zx2c4 | nothing during hte day |
| 16:27.22 | zx2c4 | oh, wait |
| 16:27.24 | zx2c4 | you're right |
| 16:27.26 | zx2c4 | these are newish |
| 16:27.28 | zx2c4 | okay |
| 16:27.29 | jelly | good. Maybe people are thinking. |
| 16:27.32 | zx2c4 | thanks |
| 16:27.50 | jordanm | they should be voting |
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| 16:28.48 | node123 | Can anyone point me to a good guide for locking down a debian server? |
| 16:29.17 | node123 | I want to run one public service on one port and besides that I only want to be able to ssh in to a non-root user with keys |
| 16:29.43 | FastCode | you just said it yourself |
| 16:30.07 | FastCode | disable root login in /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
| 16:30.12 | FastCode | install iptables |
| 16:30.29 | FastCode | iptables-persistant |
| 16:31.07 | FastCode | and 6 lines of configuration you can find in every iptables cheatsheet |
| 16:31.42 | node123 | cool thanks. i'm also reading i should uninstall all unecessary packages. is that overkill or good advice? |
| 16:31.54 | FastCode | depends |
| 16:32.06 | FastCode | not all packages degrade security |
| 16:32.17 | FastCode | pick them by hand |
| 16:32.27 | FastCode | don't mass-murder them :) |
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| 16:34.28 | node123 | will do. anything off the top of your head i should remove? |
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| 16:35.36 | jhutchins | node123: It's not a short-term project, but learn/figure out what each package does and decide if you need it. |
| 16:35.52 | jhutchins | node123: By the time you know that, you'll know Debian pretty well. |
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| 16:36.35 | CissWit | node123: if you just install a fresh debian base system and only install what you need on top of that, you are quite ok. |
| 16:36.45 | node123 | i just ran dpkg --get-selections going through them now |
| 16:36.59 | node123 | ok thanks for the advice everyone |
| 16:37.11 | FastCode | I haven't installed debian for a while, sorry, nothing on top of my head |
| 16:37.26 | CissWit | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ <- this is a good information source to start with btw |
| 16:37.29 | FastCode | xserver-xorg-video-all |
| 16:37.48 | FastCode | just make sure to set the ones you are using as 'manually installed' |
| 16:38.15 | FastCode | kernel headers if you don't have any dkms packages |
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| 16:38.59 | FastCode | CissWit: tnx |
| 16:39.12 | FastCode | wow, too long |
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| 16:40.02 | node123 | this looks good too: http://jarrettmeyer.com/post/20468014007/configuring-and-securing-a-new-debian-server |
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| 16:41.14 | CissWit | he's using a "NOPASSWD" for the only user he creates on the system, it's a bad start lol |
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| 16:42.04 | FastCode | I'd use public key authentication only |
| 16:42.42 | FastCode | with the recent malwares and attacks, that's the only way to be safe |
| 16:42.47 | node123 | for sure |
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| 16:43.40 | donvito | 0 * * * * root service pcscd restart > /dev/null 2>&1 --- if i want this command to work every 2 hours what should i add to this line? |
| 16:44.02 | CissWit | node123: and the iptable configuration is bad too. The default policy for input is ACCEPT but he adds a rule that drop them all. That's weird, looks like he doesn't really know what hes doing |
| 16:44.09 | donvito | 0 2 * * * root service pcscd restart > /dev/null 2>&1 |
| 16:44.11 | donvito | is this ok ? |
| 16:44.18 | ws2k3 | Hello, i used apt-get install to add php5 on my system but how should i install pcntl? using apt-get |
| 16:44.20 | node123 | i will close that guide then |
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| 16:44.33 | ws2k3 | or do i need to compile that by hand ? |
| 16:44.45 | FastCode | CissWit: then how do you use uptables? that's how i usually do it |
| 16:44.51 | FastCode | iptables* |
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| 16:45.46 | CissWit | FastCode: you can configure a policy : iptables -P INPUT DROP |
| 16:46.05 | FastCode | oh, TIL |
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| 16:46.48 | jhutchins | ws2k3: It should be in php5-cli |
| 16:47.32 | FastCode | jhutchins: it's not |
| 16:47.42 | agentbob_ | anyone aware of any changes from squeeze -> wheezy that would cause some kind of blocking... we have a tomcat app running with 0.0x load on debian6... identical machine running debian7 has 30.x load with same amount of traffic |
| 16:48.06 | jelly | agentbob: same jvm? |
| 16:48.35 | jelly | agentbob: when was this machine last rebooted? |
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| 16:49.53 | FastCode | agentbob: to check if they use the same jvm run update-alternatives --all and compare the outputs and change them if necessary |
| 16:50.53 | agentbob | jelly: debian7 uptime 10days, debian6 55days |
| 16:50.59 | agentbob | checking jvms |
| 16:51.25 | *** join/#debian obozhdi (~obozhdi@91.209.51.221) |
| 16:52.50 | agentbob | never used update-alternatives before... |
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| 16:53.45 | FastCode | agentbob: You'll get used to it. It helps do things faster in many different situations. |
| 16:53.51 | JoeE | FastCode: I downloaded a script named tuning-primer.sh that helped significantly. The performance is far greater now |
| 16:54.07 | FastCode | JoeE: glad to hear that |
| 16:54.34 | JoeE | I'm still contemplating switching to NAS, though |
| 16:55.02 | iateadonut | ve got a php script that downloads csv files. when i run it as a user, it downloads fine, but when i run it through cron, it downloads 0 byte files. any idea why that might be? |
| 16:55.09 | FastCode | you should really consider the latency it adds. if you can work with that, why not? |
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| 16:55.56 | FastCode | *gone* |
| 16:56.37 | agentbob | debian java package isn't installed.. it's manually install in /opt and both servers have same jvm |
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| 16:58.47 | nmpro | does anyone know how I can delete a folder that has a special char in its name? or even better.. how can I change directory into it? |
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| 16:59.07 | FastCode | rm -- <name here> |
| 16:59.17 | nmpro | here is the special char --> � |
| 16:59.18 | FastCode | rm -rvf -- <name here> |
| 16:59.32 | nmpro | FastCode: how about cd into it? |
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| 16:59.56 | FastCode | i think you cannot delete a directory you are inside of |
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| 17:00.11 | nmpro | I'm not inside of it.. I can't get into it |
| 17:00.21 | FastCode | try cd -- <name> |
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| 17:00.53 | nmpro | FastCode: ok.. let me try |
| 17:01.03 | FastCode | agentbob: It's becoming weird |
| 17:01.14 | FastCode | nmpro: it works, i tried |
| 17:01.43 | ChrisH | nmpro: ls -li will show the inodenum; find -inum=XXX -exec mv might be another way round. untested. |
| 17:02.04 | *** part/#debian JoeE (~JoeE@c-67-162-29-2.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 17:02.07 | FastCode | won't work |
| 17:02.10 | nmpro | -bash: cd: somefo�/: No such file or directory |
| 17:02.16 | nmpro | nope |
| 17:02.39 | ChrisH | nmpro: cd somefo* |
| 17:02.48 | agentbob | FastCode: indeed weird... can't figure out what problem might be :| |
| 17:03.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1530] by debhelper |
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| 17:03.12 | FastCode | compare sysctl.conf |
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| 17:03.50 | agentbob | identical |
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| 17:04.26 | FastCode | compare webserver configuration |
| 17:04.31 | FastCode | is it apache? |
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| 17:06.01 | agentbob | yeah, identical as well :| |
| 17:06.25 | FastCode | I'm thinking debian apache2 switched from mpmfork or something to something else |
| 17:06.31 | FastCode | the version might be different noo |
| 17:06.33 | FastCode | too* |
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| 17:07.45 | agentbob | actually, sorry mad bad -- it's jetty |
| 17:08.11 | FastCode | have you tried #tomcat? |
| 17:08.26 | FastCode | they may have some insight we don't... |
| 17:08.34 | mortal | is it possible to donate to debian development |
| 17:08.37 | mortal | with paypal |
| 17:08.51 | mortal | I came back from ubuntu |
| 17:08.56 | mortal | debian feels much cleaner and better |
| 17:09.31 | FastCode | http://www.debian.org/donations |
| 17:09.34 | mjt | FastCode: apache has several modules all packaged in debian |
| 17:09.44 | mjt | FastCode: i mean event model modules |
| 17:10.05 | FastCode | yeah, i know. but the default changed, IIRC |
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| 17:11.48 | AsumFace | anyone also having the problem that pwmconfig is creating config files with blank values? |
| 17:11.53 | agentbob | asking in #jetty... maybe they'll have some insight =\ |
| 17:11.59 | agentbob | FastCode: thanks for the help! |
| 17:12.25 | FastCode | is glad he could help:) |
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| 17:26.41 | Ross- | Sup :) Are there any music streaming apps for cli? |
| 17:27.15 | Ross- | something like a terminal based spotify? |
| 17:28.50 | FastCode | yes, there is rdio-cli |
| 17:29.29 | FastCode | https://github.com/markpasc/rdio-cli |
| 17:30.37 | FastCode | i'm not sure if it can play or not, if it doesn't you can use it along with mpg123 |
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| 17:31.13 | ScottE | Ross-: mplayer can stream from icecast and the like |
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| 17:32.54 | Ross- | Cheers, i'll look them up |
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| 17:34.07 | agentbob | aha! apparently it's backwards! http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=65301 |
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| 17:35.47 | dw---a | Package flashplugin-nonfree is not available, but is referred to by another package.This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, oris only available from another sourceE: Package 'flashplugin-nonfree' has no installation candidate |
| 17:36.02 | dw---a | Any idea what the cause of this issue is? I enabled the non-free repository |
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| 17:37.03 | joj | dw---a: what does apt-cache show flashplugin-nonfree say? |
| 17:37.04 | dw---a | my sources.list: http://pastebin.com/nDdfBUnk |
| 17:37.29 | dw---a | no packages found, but non-free is enabled |
| 17:37.40 | phox | dw---a: enabled and run apt-get update since enabling? |
| 17:37.49 | dw---a | yes |
| 17:37.51 | phox | k |
| 17:37.59 | phox | just checking, easy error if you don't know :P |
| 17:38.09 | dw---a | :P |
| 17:38.17 | joj | dw---a: flashplugin-nonfree is in contrib, not non-free! |
| 17:38.34 | dw---a | so add contrib before non-free? |
| 17:38.49 | joj | dw---a: yes, but the order shouldn't matter |
| 17:39.08 | dw---a | you just earned yourself a gold star |
| 17:39.22 | dw---a | thanks :P |
| 17:39.25 | joj | I-ze miii Mario~ |
| 17:39.31 | dw---a | :) |
| 17:39.40 | dw---a | mA MA MiAAAA |
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| 17:41.13 | dw---a | I wonder if I need to install nvidia graphics drivers if im running wheezy 7.3 |
| 17:41.28 | dw---a | I removed winblows from my gaming pc now that there's steam support |
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| 17:44.24 | dw---a | yup I found them... I wonder if opengl will run better than direct3d |
| 17:44.27 | dw---a | this should be interesting to see my fps |
| 17:46.36 | dw---a | The Nvidia driver is not yet configured; it needs to be enabled in xorg.conf before it can be used. |
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| 17:46.57 | dw---a | where is xorg.conf? |
| 17:47.04 | FastCode | /etc/X11/ |
| 17:47.14 | FastCode | the devil's file |
| 17:47.19 | dw---a | =] |
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| 17:48.04 | wols | dw---a: by default, there is no xorg.conf anymore |
| 17:48.11 | dw---a | I was just about to say that |
| 17:48.13 | dw---a | I see no x.org |
| 17:48.15 | dw---a | err xorg.conf |
| 17:48.25 | wols | for nvidia you need a xorg.conf. /msg dpkg nvidia dkms |
| 17:48.59 | dw---a | For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf». Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist. |
| 17:49.04 | dw---a | I have no idea what this thing is saying |
| 17:49.12 | wols | it tells you what to do |
| 17:49.16 | dw---a | so I need to type : nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf |
| 17:49.16 | dw---a | ? |
| 17:49.34 | dw---a | err starting with apt |
| 17:49.42 | wols | you need to learn to read more carefully |
| 17:49.49 | dw---a | it's irc the formatting is horrible |
| 17:50.36 | dw---a | alright i typed that wonderful command now i guess i need to restart |
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| 17:56.07 | fsf-free | is anyone using debian with xfce ? |
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| 17:57.20 | abrotman | fsf-free: lots of people, ask a real question |
| 17:57.31 | phox | hm, is there no libncurses metapackage, just libncurses5? |
| 17:58.07 | phox | hm, there's also ncurses-* |
| 17:58.09 | fsf-free | abrotman, can you share a screenshot ? does the greybird theme work in 4.8 ? |
| 17:58.20 | fsf-free | I like Debian as its stable and ncie |
| 17:58.36 | phox | would I therefore install ncurses-base or ncurses-bin explicitly? |
| 17:58.41 | abrotman | fsf-free: *I* am not, many are |
| 17:59.29 | abrotman | fsf-free: "Hello, I'm wondering if the greybird theme works for folks using XFCE on Wheezy? Could someone post a screenshot?" |
| 18:00.19 | fsf-free | abrotman, which DE do you use ? |
| 18:00.36 | phox | ok, there, found the package I needed. gak. |
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| 18:03.15 | abrotman | fsf-free: Gnome3 |
| 18:03.32 | fsf-free | abrotman, I wish I could but it is too much for my laptop |
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| 18:03.53 | fsf-free | that is why I am going for xfce version |
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| 18:04.47 | sharky | is a big fan of XFCE |
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| 18:05.11 | fsf-free | sharky, are you using xfce ? can you share a screenshoot ? |
| 18:05.29 | sharky | yes |
| 18:05.37 | shawnbon206 | openbox ...…..... |
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| 18:06.16 | phox | shawnbon206: hahaha you got text-substutited :P |
| 18:06.23 | phox | wonders what stupid Linux package is doing that now =/ |
| 18:06.41 | shawnbon206 | i am on android |
| 18:06.44 | phox | er u<->i |
| 18:06.54 | phox | ah. |
| 18:06.54 | fsf-free | sharky, please share a screenshoot ? |
| 18:06.54 | phox | the '...' character is freaking annoying. |
| 18:07.01 | shawnbon206 | …………………… |
| 18:07.11 | phox | yeah, those. its existence is annoying. |
| 18:07.18 | keith4 | it's called an ellipsis |
| 18:07.19 | sharky | fsf-free, where should I upload it? |
| 18:07.34 | shawnbon206 | ………………………………………… |
| 18:07.34 | petar | i would appreciate it if somebody runnung an "older" kernel (anything below 3.11) could /msg me the output of ``find /sys -name sysdev'' |
| 18:07.57 | phox | man, getting a source package of linux-image is kind of annoying |
| 18:08.20 | fsf-free | sharky, img.bi |
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| 18:08.32 | phox | basically have to build the package to go mess with its config, unless I do it through all of the config templates in the debian/ dir |
| 18:09.03 | wols | petar: /sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXCPU:00/sysdev |
| 18:09.20 | petar | wols: interesting, that is kernel version..? |
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| 18:09.57 | sharky | fsf-free, https://img.bi/#!AHwmHQd!EX0md0p8ebIOzfiX8sxTWyZ8s49HDldePNeyhZlI |
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| 18:10.04 | jamon_ | hi there! |
| 18:10.18 | abrotman | shawnbon206: Do you need help with Debian? |
| 18:10.22 | wols | petar: 3.2 |
| 18:10.29 | petar | wols: thanks! |
| 18:10.34 | jamon_ | i need some help setting user quotas over LDAP in debian |
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| 18:10.56 | shawnbon206 | no, i idle here and help people if i know what they dont? |
| 18:10.59 | fsf-free | sharky, ok, did you ever use the greybird theme ? |
| 18:11.09 | sharky | fsf-free, nope |
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| 18:11.20 | sharky | fsf-free, is it cool? |
| 18:11.34 | fsf-free | sharky, it is so nice and good yep wait I would show you how it is on archlinux L:p |
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| 18:12.31 | sharky | fsf-free, ok show me, I am waiting |
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| 18:15.14 | fsf-free | sharky, https://img.bi/autorm/#!nP81lT5!lGgAWEjaBogoVQWcHmrP5ECzoCr5K9Jh1bX56UZZ!ExrojWGj9LEIdhHpb2HAqsoQNb7 |
| 18:16.03 | gnu-man | hi |
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| 18:16.24 | gnu-man | So there are two tools for ntp queries (snipped with package ntp): 'ntpq' and 'ntpdc'. |
| 18:16.32 | gnu-man | What is the difference between those? |
| 18:16.40 | sharky | fsf-free, looks very nice |
| 18:16.51 | abrotman | gnu-man: they do not have man pages? |
| 18:16.57 | gnu-man | abrotman: they got |
| 18:17.03 | fsf-free | sharky, yep download the greybird time and apply it for me once .. you would love it |
| 18:17.31 | fsf-free | abrotman, Why do you use debian ? |
| 18:17.35 | sharky | I will try it later in a vm |
| 18:18.12 | gnu-man | abrotman: so the ntpdc command seems to use the ntpd (daemon), so the ntp daemon fetches that list? |
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| 18:18.32 | abrotman | fsf-free: It's the best distro available |
| 18:18.35 | gnu-man | abrotman: because in the description the tool ntpq is described as 'standard NTP query program' |
| 18:18.59 | gnu-man | abrotman: and the other tool, ntpdc, is described as 'special NTP query program |
| 18:19.05 | gnu-man | abrotman: so what is meant with special? |
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| 18:19.22 | abrotman | gnu-man: What are you actually trying to do? |
| 18:19.33 | gnu-man | abrotman: I just want to find out the difference |
| 18:19.44 | gnu-man | abrotman: I tried to manually force a sync of ntpd |
| 18:19.48 | gnu-man | abrotman: because it is just installed |
| 18:20.04 | gnu-man | abrotman: *had been |
| 18:20.09 | fsf-free | abrotman, is it better than arch ? |
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| 18:20.30 | abrotman | fsf-free: In my opinion |
| 18:20.45 | gnu-man | abrotman: so there were examples, first command was for getting a list of ip addresses in question and second command required such a remote ip address: ntpq -pn / ntpdc -pn and sntp -s <ip-address> |
| 18:20.46 | abrotman | fsf-free: Do you need help with Debian? |
| 18:21.09 | fsf-free | abrotman, not at the moment why ? |
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| 18:21.29 | sharky | fsf-free, debian and arch serve different purpose |
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| 18:21.51 | phox | debian is great for growing fungal cultures |
| 18:21.54 | fsf-free | sharky, I know |
| 18:21.56 | phox | :) |
| 18:22.50 | fsf-free | phox, what do you mean ? |
| 18:22.57 | phox | stale packages |
| 18:23.04 | abrotman | sharky: do they? They're both GNU/Linux |
| 18:23.13 | phox | nobody seems to be able to do package versioning correctly, Debian or otherwise |
| 18:23.16 | abrotman | phox: You just need to know how to use it ... |
| 18:23.32 | gnu-man | abrotman: so it is not clear from both man pages what the tools make different |
| 18:23.40 | phox | abrotman: I just need to waste half my life manually sorting out what comes from backports and what gets built from Sid source :) |
| 18:24.05 | abrotman | phox: use stow/checkinstall |
| 18:24.18 | abrotman | gnu-man: Do I need to read them? |
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| 18:24.31 | phox | abrotman: why not use apt-get source? |
| 18:24.32 | sharky | abrotman, yes but I think debian aims more to stability and compatibility and arch more bleeding edge, that is why it is also rolling dist |
| 18:24.44 | abrotman | phox: That's up to you, just options |
| 18:24.48 | abrotman | sharky: then you're using it wrong |
| 18:24.59 | phox | abrotman: it absolutely makes sense for various packages to have near-bleeding-edge versions in Debian stable, but that's not what happens because of ignorant, misguided "stable" ideology |
| 18:25.26 | abrotman | gnu-man: it looks like ntpdc is for manipluating the remote system, perhaps I"m misreading that |
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| 18:25.40 | sharky | abrotman, what do you mean? |
| 18:25.43 | phox | I totally want Bash and core stuff that was stable a year ago. I don't want a version of something that was initially released 18 months ago from a year ago. the 18-month-old version is going to be more stable than the 6-month-old version :) |
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| 18:26.05 | debianwiki | ciaop |
| 18:26.06 | abrotman | sharky: you can get more bleeding edge with Debian, it's just in how you use it |
| 18:26.11 | shawnbon206 | sharky debian has rolling release, its testing/sid |
| 18:26.17 | abrotman | that's not correct |
| 18:26.29 | shawnbon206 | what?! |
| 18:26.36 | sharky | shawnbon206, yes, but arch does not have stable |
| 18:26.37 | gnu-man | abrotman: ah, this could be, yes |
| 18:26.43 | shawnbon206 | it is a semi-rolling |
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| 18:27.02 | phox | abrotman: you cannot get a sensible set of packages without going outside of a single Debian tree, which directly indicates that the manner in which the trees' package versions are selected is wrong |
| 18:27.06 | phox | abrotman: as I outlined above |
| 18:27.09 | shawnbon206 | and teating on debian doesnt crash and burn every time you update it |
| 18:27.10 | sharky | debian aims to security too, and I think there are much more debian servers than arch |
| 18:27.14 | abrotman | phox: again, you're doing it wrong :) |
| 18:27.20 | iateadonut | what might be a reason that a script that downloads a file when run from the command line works and downloads a 1kb file, but when run through a cronjob, downloads a correctly named file (which it gets from the place it downloads) of 0 bytes? |
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| 18:27.36 | GJdan | sid was unstable I though, debian rolling is testing |
| 18:27.42 | abrotman | ... |
| 18:27.44 | phox | abrotman: so if I want very sane Bash and other system utilties, and usable i.e. up-to-date versions of things like e.g. libmapnik, what Debian distro do I run? |
| 18:27.54 | sharky | shawnbon206, also that what you call rolling is "unstable" |
| 18:28.01 | abrotman | phox: do you think the bash in sid is not sane? |
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| 18:28.12 | FastCode | iateadonut: environment variables |
| 18:28.35 | FastCode | are you using a graphical terminal for testing the command? |
| 18:28.45 | phox | abrotman: I think if it's the accepted view that the system utilities in Unstable are Stable, someone's brain somewhere is broken :) |
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| 18:28.52 | GJdan | I seem to recall seeing a number of people deciding on a rolling distro choosing between debian testing and arch |
| 18:29.09 | abrotman | phox: for something like bash, I do actually trust upstream for the most part |
| 18:29.29 | abrotman | phox: that said, I wouldn't be the first to jump on geewhezbash5 or whatever the next major will be |
| 18:29.34 | abrotman | eh, 4 |
| 18:29.36 | phox | abrotman: heh. ironically release engineering folks didn't trust upstream GRUB and totally fscked up 7.0.0 release o.O |
| 18:29.40 | shawnbon206 | sharky yes its unstable but only if you put the unstable in quotes like you did. arch is unstable without quotes |
| 18:29.42 | abrotman | 5 .. whatever |
| 18:29.56 | abrotman | phox: my Grub2 works just fine from wheezy, not sure what you're talking about |
| 18:30.00 | phox | abrotman: yeah, these are production systems, so.... |
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| 18:30.17 | abrotman | runs off for a bit |
| 18:30.22 | sharky | shawnbon206, I know |
| 18:30.22 | shawnbon206 | aka theres different degrees of unstable. debians testing is other distros stable |
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| 18:30.30 | phox | abrotman: grub-efi in 7.0.0 shipped as some crap 1.99something version, which was broken. I chrooted into the install, updated to 2.x from unstable, and magically my system wasn't a boat anchor |
| 18:30.31 | abrotman | also points at #debian-offtopic for longer discussions ... |
| 18:30.36 | abrotman | phox: I wouldn't know about EFI |
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| 18:30.42 | phox | abrotman: that was certainly a case of "not trusting upstream" being a spectacularly stupid move |
| 18:30.46 | FastCode | completely agrees with shawnbon206 |
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| 18:31.23 | phox | hey, let's release with this 12-month-old PRERELEASE version of a totally compartmentalized package, instead of a 10-month-old FINAL upstream release version. because that kind of philosophy makes perfect sense :P |
| 18:31.34 | phox | anywho |
| 18:32.00 | jelly-home | phox: which bug number is your report? |
| 18:32.07 | FastCode | exactly, what they did to mesa, xorg, mono, and a whole lot of other packages |
| 18:32.11 | shawnbon206 | yeah you win some you lose some phox |
| 18:32.42 | jelly-home | phox: if you'd stated it carefully that grub-efi is completely useless in there, there's some chance it might get updated |
| 18:32.42 | phox | jelly-home: I think I reported it. I've gotten slack after having SO many bugs just sit and stagnate. |
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| 18:33.11 | sharky | shawnbon206, archlinux is OK for me to use it for desktop in a vm, but the bare metal is always for debian, definitely servers too |
| 18:33.12 | jelly-home | grub's pretty self sufficient |
| 18:33.18 | shawnbon206 | i am using grub-efi but didnt have any problems, but i am on jessie now (i was on wheezy when i first put grub-efi on there) |
| 18:33.54 | phox | jelly-home: which means people don't need to freak out about "oh if we include this newer version we need to do INTEGRATION TESTING for a long period of time". because, exactly: it's really quite isolated and so long as it boots my kernel it becomes irrelevant. |
| 18:34.45 | phox | jelly-home: I think a coworker ended up reporting that one. I don't have it in my e-mail anywhere. |
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| 18:35.24 | phox | I really wish someone (not is no longer Debian core) would actually fix the bugs I've reported against a few GIS packages... |
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| 18:36.13 | phox | the two most annoying amount to "please rebuild this, configured correctly as follows", and they've been ignored for 6-12 months by the lazyasses "responsible" for debian-gis crap |
| 18:36.16 | phox | :) |
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| 18:40.00 | iateadonut | FastCode, thanks. no i'm not using GUI for testing the command. |
| 18:40.04 | iateadonut | just ssh |
| 18:40.16 | iateadonut | SHLVL=1 - that variable is different? |
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| 18:40.37 | iateadonut | (i used cron to run printenv > /home/me/cronEnv/ to get the different environemtnal variables) |
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| 18:42.13 | FastCode | ran out of ideas |
| 18:42.35 | iateadonut | the printenv output is different for the two |
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| 18:42.50 | iateadonut | the one that works has SHLVL=1 ; the one that doesn't has SHLVL=2 |
| 18:42.50 | GJdan | phox: which packages are those? |
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| 18:43.02 | GJdan | not that I can do anything about it, just curious since I'll probably run into them |
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| 18:43.22 | phox | GJdan: libnetcdfc++-4 or whatever it is, and cdo |
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| 18:43.32 | phox | cdo itself is a steaming pile, but the maintainer still needs to fix that |
| 18:43.51 | FastCode | try setting it to 1, but i don't think something like that matters, at least for download managers |
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| 18:44.35 | phox | the former is configured incorrectly. the latter AUTOMAGICALLY builds with or without netcdf4 support depending whether it's present, NOT as a robust configure option that will then result in a build failure, and the maintainer obviously built it either on an unequipped system, or with a stale config.status :) |
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| 18:45.24 | phox | most ironically, libnetcdfc++-4 is built WITHOUT --with-cxx-4, so it in fact has NetCDF3 C++ libs, and has NetCDF4 C libs, but does not have its namesake NetCDF4 C++ libs. derp. fail. |
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| 18:49.48 | jelly-home | phox: if the fix is simple, add a patch to the bug report, and poke it again |
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| 18:50.10 | Ross- | So im using a campus wifi atm which requires a login. I couldnt figure out how to add the wifi to my configs manually and ended up using NetworkManager |
| 18:50.24 | jelly-home | but if it's been open for more than a year, perhaps it's better to hunt for the maintainer and see whether they're MIA |
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| 18:51.01 | Ross- | So im using a campus wifi atm which requires a login. I couldnt figure out how to add the wifi to my configs manually and ended up using NetworkManager/ |
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| 18:51.23 | Ross- | um |
| 18:51.24 | Ross- | oops |
| 18:51.35 | Ross- | But if networkmanager drops the connection, i need to log in to my GUI, enter my keyring password then the password for the wifi again. Any way to automate this so i don't have to |
| 18:51.43 | Ross- | Thats what I ment to send ^^ |
| 18:51.49 | nabblet | hi, i am using debian stable. when i play music/video (independent of player) the media for a very short moment hangs/repeats |
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| 18:51.59 | nabblet | in unstable intervals of ~ 1 minute |
| 18:51.59 | nabblet | it' |
| 18:52.21 | nabblet | incredible annoing. can't find anything in dmesg. what are the next things to check/test? |
| 18:52.39 | babilen | Ross-: You can configure it as a "system connection" by clicking the "available to all users" -- that way NM will try to keep the connection regardless of Xorg |
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| 18:53.15 | debianw | hi at all!! |
| 18:53.22 | phox | jelly-home: "add this to WHATEVER config var in debian/rules" <- I think that about constitutes a patch. I don't know what exact patch format Debian prefers, so... |
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| 18:53.51 | gravy | Howdy, debianw. |
| 18:54.07 | Ross- | babilen: It's set to available to all. Im not sure if it's keyring asking for password or if its NM not saving the password/automating a re-login? |
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| 18:54.22 | debianw | gravy i wanna ask u a "little" problem |
| 18:54.36 | phox | OTOH I do think I'll jab both bugs |
| 18:54.42 | debianw | can i? |
| 18:54.47 | babilen | Ross-: It should keep the entire configuration in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ as the connection is by no means specific to your user |
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| 18:55.09 | babilen | debianw: Just ask if you have a Debian related support question |
| 18:55.18 | debianw | gravy are u there? |
| 18:55.28 | gravy | Shoot. |
| 18:55.38 | gravy | I'm all ears. |
| 18:55.57 | debianw | first of all, im italian but in debian-it there's anyone alive |
| 18:56.06 | babilen | debianw: It is typically both a good idea and preferred to simply ask the entire channel and to not single out a specific person, but pray continue |
| 18:56.07 | gravy | Haha. |
| 18:56.15 | debianw | i've got kali1 |
| 18:56.18 | sharky | Ross-, a terminal tool is wpasupplicant and wpa_passphrase for wifi |
| 18:56.22 | debianw | i've got kali1.0.6 |
| 18:56.28 | babilen | dpkg: kali |
| 18:56.28 | dpkg | Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>. |
| 18:56.38 | debianw | and after enable ufw |
| 18:56.44 | debianw | the system freeze |
| 18:56.56 | debianw | then i reboot |
| 18:57.00 | babilen | debianw: We and #debian-it do not support Kali. Either install and use Debian or take it to their channel. |
| 18:57.26 | debianw | but it show a lot of error about password |
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| 18:57.42 | debianw | and then ask me te log in not in GUI mode but in terminal |
| 18:57.42 | Wamphyri | anyone familiur with pureftpd? |
| 18:57.47 | debianw | so i typed root |
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| 18:57.50 | wols | !tell Wamphyri about anyone |
| 18:57.51 | debianw | and pwd |
| 18:58.01 | phox | freaking lazy GIS maintainer(s) :| |
| 18:58.03 | wols | debianw: you can stop. you cannot get support here. read what dpkg and babilen wrote |
| 18:58.12 | debianw | but sayed login incorrect |
| 18:58.22 | phox | pkg-grass-devel and also some "Alastair McKinstry" |
| 18:58.26 | babilen | debianw: Seriously, don't use enter in lieu of punctuation and take it to #kali-linux -- we only support pure Debian |
| 18:58.47 | Wamphyri | with pureftpd setup, as long as the folder is empty i can view it, the moment i uppload files to the folder i can no longer access it, suggestions where to look? |
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| 19:02.11 | Wamphyri | see wols i ended up typing out a story for nothing when my original question sufficed |
| 19:02.36 | wols | huh? |
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| 19:02.54 | wols | a "anyone" question is always a bad idea and you waste the time of other people |
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| 19:03.15 | Wamphyri | how is that? |
| 19:03.21 | centrx | Does anyone know if anyone has a question? |
| 19:03.31 | babilen | centrx: yes |
| 19:03.32 | wols | Wamphyri: dpkg told you why |
| 19:04.11 | centrx | Okay, all set, thanks, my question has been answered. |
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| 19:05.24 | Wamphyri | dpkg did not tell how asking if someone is familiur with something wastes time of other people |
| 19:05.25 | dpkg | that's too long, Wamphyri |
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| 19:06.05 | centrx | dpkg: say Wamphyri, asking if someone is familiar with something wastes people's time |
| 19:06.05 | dpkg | Wamphyri, asking if someone is familiar with something wastes people's time |
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| 19:06.48 | ompaul | Wamphyri: do you think you can now ask your real question and stop philosophy 101 with the bot? |
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| 19:07.05 | Wamphyri | and how does it waste peoples time? |
| 19:07.08 | JoeE | I have squeeze 32-bit installed on a server. grep lm /proc/cpuinfo shows that both cpu's support lm. When I tried to install debian via the 64-bit netinst cd, I would get numerous errors regarding bad sectors on my scsi raid (/dev/cciss/c0d0) and the drive would be re-mounted as read only during the install. Installing squeeze from the 32-bit netinst cd had no trouble at all. Has anyone else encountered this? |
| 19:07.14 | Wamphyri | ompaul, i already did |
| 19:07.16 | babilen | ompaul: Wamphyri did ask |
| 19:07.20 | FastCode | ompaul: LMFAO |
| 19:07.43 | ompaul | wonderful so just quit with philosophy 101 then :) |
| 19:07.44 | Devastator | jelly-home well, here it is, is it too difficult to create a initscript for this? http://codepad.org/w025aJOx |
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| 19:07.52 | babilen | Unfortunately nobody is particularly taken with the idea of debugging FTP and pureftp in particular |
| 19:08.30 | phox | why is that so hard |
| 19:08.40 | phox | it's an easy protocol to pick apart and I'm sure Wireshark will do its best to help |
| 19:08.55 | phox | go use wireshark and find out what's actually failing |
| 19:08.58 | phox | step 1 |
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| 19:09.30 | phox | needs to go murder Thunderbird in its sleep |
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| 19:09.51 | jelly-home | Devastator: you might look at the "daemon" package and tool for a way to daemonize the script, and at /etc/init.d/skeleton for an example init script |
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| 19:09.59 | wols | phox: ftp must die! just google it. it's an awful protocol :) |
| 19:10.00 | phox | and gmail |
| 19:10.14 | wols | gmail is currently down |
| 19:10.16 | phox | just google what? FTP works, for things that FTP is appropriate for |
| 19:10.23 | phox | also "FXP" is cool |
| 19:10.28 | wols | google for "ftp must die" |
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| 19:10.54 | sharky | wols, NO |
| 19:10.56 | phox | heh |
| 19:10.57 | jelly-home | Devastator: to be used once you figure out a proper way to daemonize the thing |
| 19:11.00 | phox | yes it's a bizarre protocol |
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| 19:11.26 | ompaul | phox: it's just slow to start and picks up speed later, but that is kind of pointless in this day and age |
| 19:11.29 | phox | and here's some idiot saying it's "slow" http://dotnetkicks.com/stories/9347/FTP_Must_Die |
| 19:11.34 | Wamphyri | i use it for the simplicity, just upload and download files thats is nothing else is required of it |
| 19:11.41 | phox | ompaul: doesn't it just let TCP take care of that? |
| 19:12.11 | ompaul | phox: you'd think that |
| 19:12.18 | Devastator | jelly-home by once you mean.. personal use? |
| 19:12.19 | phox | I don't remember the FTP spec having the server itself do anything about throttling data |
| 19:12.22 | phox | heh. |
| 19:12.38 | ompaul | phox: I had to read it years ago, it may have matured since. |
| 19:12.39 | phox | too lazy to look, so I'll believe you that it's actually stupider than I remember |
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| 19:12.47 | Devastator | jelly-home here is my skeleton attempt: http://codepad.org/e0l8iPgt |
| 19:12.48 | phox | ompaul: well, it's since grown things like PASV and such |
| 19:13.01 | ompaul | phox: it had that back then |
| 19:13.08 | phox | ompaul: of course we use SFTP for everything pretty much, unless we're interfacing with retarded people and then they can suffer through FTP |
| 19:13.12 | phox | mm |
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| 19:13.46 | ompaul | phox: web services and browsers doing ftp sessions took care of most of the protocol |
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| 19:17.05 | gnu-man | So how is sysvinit / upstart / systemd called? It is a start framework? Autostart framework? |
| 19:17.15 | gnu-man | I mean, the general description of them |
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| 19:17.24 | wols | init system I'd say |
| 19:17.34 | babilen | so do we all |
| 19:17.40 | gnu-man | wols: so debian uses sysvinit by default, right? |
| 19:17.55 | wols | modified a bit, but still basically sysvinit, yes |
| 19:18.01 | kRush | should be in metapackage clusterfuck |
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| 19:18.55 | gnu-man | thank you! |
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| 19:20.23 | gnu-man | So when I install systemd package on debian, it will automatically replace the sysvinit, right? |
| 19:20.31 | Wamphyri | filezilla/smartftp when i try to view a folder on my vps using pureftp as the server my connection times out, i have my firewall disabled on my desktop and dmz on my router set to my desktop ip as well, i have tried both active and passive mode with ports setup in pureftpd and with iptables, suggestions? |
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| 19:26.08 | centrx | gnu-man, Probably. If it doesn't you can use update-alternatives |
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| 19:34.03 | phox | hey is there a way to get apt to stop making other, irrelevant unconfigured packages and other such things interfere with the installation of new packages |
| 19:34.35 | centrx | phox, Are you referring to broken packages? |
| 19:34.41 | phox | things like that |
| 19:34.48 | phox | or say something that's unhappy because of its dependencies |
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| 19:34.59 | centrx | Uninstall the broken package, or finish the installation of the broken package... |
| 19:35.06 | phox | hm, I guess. |
| 19:35.22 | centrx | phox, You could always use dpkg directly, but apt it supposed to handle dependencies. |
| 19:35.24 | babilen | phox: You, you can break the system further by using dpkg directly, but even that has it boundaries. Fix the underlying issue and take it from there. |
| 19:36.05 | babilen | heh |
| 19:37.09 | phox | well, the idea was that it seemed sane to have a package installed but unconfigured |
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| 19:37.20 | phox | and then deal with that when I can |
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| 19:37.55 | phox | seems odd to fully uninstall it so the package system shuts up about that, but if that's what works, I suppose... |
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| 19:38.49 | abrotman | to you? |
| 19:38.56 | wols | package system has to be in a defined, well working state or all falls apart. that is why apt insists on fixing all problems before doing anything |
| 19:39.28 | centrx | phox, Since it takes two seconds to install an already-downloaded package, what is the point of having it installed but not configured? |
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| 19:41.05 | abrotman | he broke it? :) |
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| 19:42.47 | phox | centrx: it just seems nonsensical |
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| 19:43.25 | papi83dm | hello |
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| 19:43.27 | papi83dm | morning |
| 19:43.36 | centrx | phox, If you were wading a cross a river that is four feet wide, would you stop in the middle and say "it is too far to forward and too far to go back!" ? |
| 19:44.02 | *** join/#debian yogurt2ungue (~yogurt2un@host146.181-14-255.telecom.net.ar) |
| 19:44.06 | centrx | papi83dm, Ahoy |
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| 19:44.09 | papi83dm | when would debian 6 decome EOD? |
| 19:44.15 | papi83dm | *become |
| 19:44.15 | phox | that's a silly analogy |
| 19:44.18 | centrx | papi83dm, Most likely May 2014 |
| 19:44.20 | wols | phox: may 2014 |
| 19:44.25 | randomstranger | YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 19:44.31 | randomstranger | how to use cron? |
| 19:44.33 | randomstranger | and install |
| 19:44.36 | randomstranger | debian |
| 19:44.38 | phox | wols: tab error :P |
| 19:44.45 | papi83dm | when it comes to EOD, does it mean, no more security update? |
| 19:45.02 | randomstranger | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:45.04 | wols | papi83dm: yes |
| 19:45.05 | centrx | papi83dm, Yes |
| 19:45.06 | babilen | dpkg: tell randomstranger -about install debian |
| 19:45.24 | babilen | dpkg: tell randomstranger -about cron |
| 19:45.44 | centrx | phox, What is the use case for having an installed but broken/unconfigured package? |
| 19:46.03 | randomstranger | babilen DOES CRON allow jobs to be repeated in constant intervals forever and ever? |
| 19:46.31 | centrx | randomstranger, Until the machine fails |
| 19:46.39 | babilen | randomstranger: There really is no need for ALL CAPS - and yes, that is exactly what cron is for. |
| 19:46.53 | phox | centrx: mostly it just seemed nonsensical to REQUIRE configuration at installation time. I also might want to bypass the maintainer's included config script, even if it does not offer such an option, and I don't want to have to file a bug every time I want that option only to hae it ignored :) |
| 19:46.58 | phox | shrugs |
| 19:47.16 | randomstranger | centrx if the MACHINE fails, does cron continue where it left from? |
| 19:47.24 | babilen | randomstranger: It certainly won't run "forever and ever" and I can assure you that no platform will exist in 10 billion years (for example) |
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| 19:47.48 | randomstranger | babilen you never know, with science I might achieve immortality |
| 19:47.58 | papi83dm | is it not recommend it to upgrade from package? |
| 19:48.04 | babilen | randomstranger: No, how would it? If the box is dead the box is dead. Can we do anything else for you? |
| 19:48.14 | papi83dm | like in June, can I upgrade my server by doing like apt-get upgrade, |
| 19:48.18 | papi83dm | and then update |
| 19:48.33 | randomstranger | babilen please answer me WHAT happens when the MACHINE fails |
| 19:48.46 | randomstranger | babilen will CRON continue where it left from? |
| 19:48.55 | phox | randomstranger: if you get the machine back up AFTER a failure, Cron will continue running things at regularly scheduled intervals, if that's what you mean |
| 19:48.58 | centrx | phox, You can change the configuration after the package is installed, or you can change the package itself before installing it. |
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| 19:49.17 | babilen | randomstranger: I answered that already - no, it cannot. Please try to ask more sensible questions and lay of the CAPS. |
| 19:49.29 | centrx | phox, You might as well say it is nonsensical to require that all the files in the package be installed at installation time, when you only need some of them. |
| 19:49.30 | randomstranger | phox vs babilen |
| 19:49.34 | phox | it won't do anything magical like have anything that was running as a cronjob when the machine failed checkpointed and actually continue that where it "left off", but it will resume normal operation if its configuration and everything was intact |
| 19:49.54 | phox | centrx: you're being silly again. |
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| 19:50.25 | phox | centrx: what if I want to install a daemon of some sort, and I want to read its documentation before enabling it. for example like I miht have with the thing that apt is currently whining about. |
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| 19:51.16 | centrx | phox, Read the documentation before installing it... |
| 19:51.19 | phox | "users will always have all necessary configuration information at install time" on its own is a faulty assumption, without even convering the "install scrip will always provide adequate configuration flexibility" part |
| 19:51.20 | randomstranger | phox EXPLAIN to me this. I set up a task to run every hour, machine crash and automatically restarts |
| 19:51.29 | phox | centrx: the documentation comes as part of the package :) |
| 19:51.31 | randomstranger | will cron execute the next task |
| 19:51.52 | phox | randomstranger: assuming you have Cron set to start up as part of system startup (which it should be configured to be fault), yes |
| 19:51.54 | centrx | phox, Use the default configuration, then change it later |
| 19:51.55 | phox | that's what cron does |
| 19:51.58 | babilen | randomstranger: Sure, it will simply run whatever there is to run at whatever point in time it is active |
| 19:52.06 | phox | once it's running agian, it'll run stuff at the next scheduled time |
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| 19:52.23 | phox | it just won't do anything at all about ones it missed, or the one that was interrupted when the system went down, or whatever |
| 19:52.42 | papi83dm | can this channel be used for package information? |
| 19:52.47 | JoeE | I'm trying to install wheezy (amd64), but during debootstrap I get the following error: "The debootstrap program exited with an error (return value 1)". When I switch to vt4 I see several Buffer I/O errors. Installing squeeze or wheezy 32 bit works fine without any of these errors |
| 19:52.55 | papi83dm | i want to know when apache 2.4 will be stable |
| 19:53.17 | JoeE | it appears that the drive is being mounted as read only thus preventing the installation from continuing |
| 19:53.40 | centrx | papi83dm, The next stable distribution is scheduled to be released in 2015. |
| 19:53.43 | FastCode | JoeE: defective drive? |
| 19:53.58 | JoeE | no, both drives are pristine |
| 19:54.10 | centrx | papi83dm, Apache 2.4 may be added at some point to wheezy-backports, or you might be able to use testing |
| 19:54.13 | FastCode | try dd on them |
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| 19:54.31 | papi83dm | what's the link to the testing packages? |
| 19:54.32 | FastCode | dd obs=128K if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX |
| 19:54.37 | wols | ,v apache2 |
| 19:54.38 | judd | Package: apache2 on i386 -- squeeze: 2.2.16-6+squeeze11; squeeze-security: 2.2.16-6+squeeze11; wheezy: 2.2.22-13; jessie: 2.4.6-3; sid: 2.4.7-1 |
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| 19:54.42 | abrotman | papi83dm: packages.debian.org |
| 19:55.37 | FastCode | JoeE: dd overwrites the whole disk |
| 19:55.49 | FastCode | try a single partition if your disk contains any data |
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| 19:56.05 | abrotman | wtf ... |
| 19:56.15 | abrotman | JoeE: please ensure your cables are seated properly |
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| 19:56.46 | JoeE | they are scsi drives, no cables |
| 19:57.17 | JoeE | I think the problem may bee the fact that when I set up the logical drive, I left "Maximum Boot Partition" as 4GB instead of 8GB |
| 19:57.17 | abrotman | SCSI drives still have cables. |
| 19:57.32 | abrotman | It might be to the backplane, but it's a cable |
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| 19:57.58 | JoeE | abrotman: good point, but those are connected securely. I had no problems at all with the 32-bit iso |
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| 19:58.52 | papi83dm | how can I install apache2 (2.4.6-3) |
| 19:59.08 | JoeE | I re-created the logical drive with 8gb, so we'll see what that does (if anything) |
| 19:59.16 | babilen | papi83dm: You cannot on wheezy |
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| 20:00.14 | nkuttler | ,v apache2 |
| 20:00.15 | judd | Package: apache2 on i386 -- squeeze: 2.2.16-6+squeeze11; squeeze-security: 2.2.16-6+squeeze11; wheezy: 2.2.22-13; jessie: 2.4.6-3; sid: 2.4.7-1 |
| 20:00.24 | babilen | papi83dm: It is not easily backportable and you can forget the packages in jessie. You *might* be able to get it running from source, but #httpd would know more about that. Wouldn't necessarily recommend that if you don't require it urgently though. |
| 20:00.28 | JoeE | failing this, I guess I can install 32-bit, create a chroot, then do an in-place upgrade to 64-bit. that's an ugly way to do it, but might be my only option |
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| 20:02.09 | jelly-home | Devastator: you'll have to start something like "daemon /path/to/script", or learn to use start-stop-daemon's --background. Personally I find "daemon" more flexible |
| 20:02.09 | papi83dm | thanks babilen |
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| 20:02.23 | papi83dm | what about upgrading from 6 to 7. is it a good idea to do it from packages? |
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| 20:02.48 | papi83dm | any downside doing it that way? |
| 20:03.23 | Devastator | jelly-home really, really thanks, I just found a backup when I started working with this and looking at what I did, it seems I was much closer to the answer hehe |
| 20:03.53 | papi83dm | v,php5 |
| 20:03.59 | bugoff | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.08 | papi83dm | ,v php5 |
| 20:04.09 | babilen | papi83dm: Upgrading what from 6 to 7? I am not aware of those apache versions -- you might refer to Debian in which case you can upgrade in place by following the procedure described in the wheezy release notes |
| 20:04.10 | judd | Package: php5 on i386 -- squeeze: 5.3.3-7+squeeze17; squeeze-security: 5.3.3-7+squeeze17; squeeze-security: 5.3.3-7+squeeze18; wheezy: 5.4.4-14+deb7u5; wheezy-proposed-updates: 5.4.4-14+deb7u7; wheezy-security: 5.4.4-14+deb7u7; jessie: 5.5.8+dfsg-2; sid: 5.5.8+dfsg-2; sid: 5.5.8+dfsg-3 |
| 20:04.32 | babilen | papi83dm: Please also /msg the bot if you can (/msg judd v FOO) |
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| 20:06.07 | papi83dm | babilen, i meant in general to upgrade debian |
| 20:06.25 | babilen | dpkg: tell papi83dm -about squeeze->wheezy |
| 20:06.37 | babilen | dpkg: tell papi83dm -about wheezy release notes |
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| 20:07.27 | papi83dm | thanks, any harm on doing it that way? |
| 20:07.27 | JoeE | FastCode: the dd command works without any errors |
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| 20:08.54 | jdoles | Is there any way I can recover my Firefox profiles? |
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| 20:09.06 | mtn | jdoles: yes, from your backups |
| 20:09.09 | jdoles | The "profile manager" doesn't list the profiles. |
| 20:09.17 | eblip | what do i need to read an epub document in debian |
| 20:09.19 | jdoles | mtn: that has nothing to do with it. |
| 20:09.26 | mtn | jdoles: really? ok. |
| 20:09.28 | jdoles | mtn: it's just the stupid GUI which doesn't display them. |
| 20:09.30 | babilen | papi83dm: No, no harm. It is the recommended way and Debian has supported upgrades since forever. There are plenty of systems around that have been upgraded continuously for years |
| 20:09.44 | jdoles | mtn: all, or at least 99.99% of the data is still there. |
| 20:09.54 | hid3 | Hello everyone. When I execute `/etc/init.d/vsftpd stop`, I get the following message: "Stopping FTP server: No /usr/sbin/vsftpd found running; none killed." However, the daemons were running and still keep running after that command. Any ideas what's wrong? |
| 20:10.02 | mtn | jdoles: so "recover" wasn't very accurate, then was it? |
| 20:10.24 | jdoles | mtn: all that needs to happen is a working version of the profile manager or there is some lock file still somewhere, etc. |
| 20:10.34 | jdoles | mtn: I don't know what those Mozilla suckers did this time. |
| 20:10.47 | jdoles | mtn: perhaps you were just assuming too much. |
| 20:11.11 | jdoles | mtn: because it's still correct English to say "recover". |
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| 20:11.31 | jdoles | mtn: it's just that you assumed it to have a very narrow meaning, which is, completely, your fault. |
| 20:11.57 | jdoles | mtn: now, we have established that you aren't a smartass, have you something *useful* to say? |
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| 20:13.00 | babilen | jdoles: Please stay corteous and do not call people who work hard on software you use "suckers" -- That being said: We also don't support Firefox and you should take it up with upstream. |
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| 20:14.28 | babilen | jdoles: Oh, and the same holds true for dealing with volunteers who you shouldn't call "smartass" |
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| 20:15.02 | jdoles | babilen: volunteers who act like a smartass are not volunteer.s |
| 20:15.13 | jdoles | babilen: if you have a different opinion, you aren't one either. |
| 20:15.36 | jdoles | babilen: you are free to have a different opinion in this matter, but you would just be wrong. |
| 20:15.47 | Mohsen_Hassani | Hello guys. I'm looking for a program to let me run a specific program like (transmission-gtk) at a specific time. I thought `qt` could do that, but installing and working with it I got that it only runs commands in sh. |
| 20:15.49 | jdoles | (which wouldn't be that odd; lots of people are wrong every day) |
| 20:16.59 | jelly-home | hid3: pid file out of date and the init script not written well enough. kill the processes manually. |
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| 20:17.22 | jelly-home | hid3: pkill command may be your friend (if you treat it right) |
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| 20:19.01 | Linuxman255 | @Mohsen_Hassani try the "at" command |
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| 20:19.41 | Mohsen_Hassani | Linuxman255, in my question I mentioned that using `at` command I realized it's only for sh commands, it does not let me run x programs ;) |
| 20:19.57 | Linuxman255 | Cron, perhaps? |
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| 20:20.33 | Mohsen_Hassani | Linuxman255, hmmm... well it sure does what I want, but I need an easy graphical program |
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| 20:20.46 | hid3 | jelly-home: this is stock debian's init script. I haven't messed with pid files. I've killed the processes, erased the pid file, started vsftpd via init script and started to stop it. Same happens. Something is very wrong here |
| 20:20.49 | babilen | jdoles: Please, act polite and grateful and you should receive help. No need to call anybody any names. |
| 20:20.59 | hid3 | It's the 1st time I see stock debian init script behave like that |
| 20:21.32 | Linuxman255 | @Mohson_Hassani hmm, I'll see if a GUI exists for it |
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| 20:25.23 | hid3 | it seems that the PID file contains wrong PID number |
| 20:25.40 | hid3 | if I start the daemon, cat the pid file, then do ps aux | grep <pid> I see nothing |
| 20:25.49 | hid3 | ps aux | grep vsftpd shows different PIDs |
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| 20:33.23 | Wamphyri | filezilla/smartftp when i try to view a folder on my vps using pureftp as the server my connection times out, i have my firewall disabled on my desktop and dmz on my router set to my desktop ip as well, i have tried both active and passive mode with ports setup in pureftpd and with iptables, suggestions? |
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| 20:35.12 | nimbiotics | hello all ... is there a way to use gnome 2 on wheezy? if so, where can I find instructions on how to do it? TIA! |
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| 20:36.22 | nashant | Hi guys. I really need some help here as I REALLY don't want to go back to buntu |
| 20:36.56 | Intensity | Hi. I'm having great difficulty determining whether addr2line/catchsegv are really working as intended (printing line numbers). I compile a program with gcc -g3, trigger a SEGV, and then I see a backtrace. However, I don't see line nubmers, and manually running addr2line gives ??'s. Is there something I'm missing? I've tried on Debian 7 (amd64 and i386). |
| 20:37.16 | nashant | I've just got a new laptop and it's got a Haswell i7 chip with HD4600 graphics. Does anyone have any idea how I get it to work properly? At the moment I can only get gnome classic |
| 20:37.24 | mtn | nimbiotics: no, gnome 2 isn't supported in wheezy |
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| 20:39.04 | nimbiotics | mtn: How about any other GUI besides gnome3? |
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| 20:39.34 | babilen | nimbiotics: There isn't -- it is not supported and you should search for alternatives. In wheezy you have XFCE and LXDE which might tickle your fancy. KDE maybe or one of the many window managers. XFCE is probably closest to Gnome 2 of those. jessie (next release) will probably contain cinnamon and mate which are gnome 2 forks (broadly and incorrectly speaking) |
| 20:39.37 | mtn | nimbiotics: lots of them, if not most of them |
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| 20:40.35 | nimbiotics | mtn, babilen: Thanks a lot! |
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| 20:41.36 | phox | jelly-home: you asked; turns out I just subscribed to an existing bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=701127 -- appallingly this was reported BEFORE some retard decided it was OK to go ahead and release 7.0 |
| 20:41.51 | babilen | nimbiotics: cinnamon shouldn't be too hard to backport to wheezy by following the isntructions in "/msg dpkg ssb" -- you do have to backport and install libmuffin-dev first though. Allin all I would probably recommend to take a look at XFCE and take it from there. |
| 20:42.02 | phox | oh hey let's release a final version with a BROKEN BOOTLOADER... fail |
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| 20:42.31 | nimbiotics | babilen: Will check, Thanks again! |
| 20:44.43 | babilen | nimbiotics: But then: Gnome 3 really is quite nice (IMHO) and I would give it a try. Combine it with https://extensions.gnome.org/ and you might have a nice system... It's not to everyone's liking, but it is a nice DE |
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| 20:45.28 | phox | jelly-home: also appallingly, that bug has not been touched. -wow-. |
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| 20:47.20 | jelly-home | phox: an acknowledgement would have been nice, yes. I guess you could poke the maintainer list and show which hardware models fail for you. |
| 20:47.47 | jelly-home | phox: then again, all mails to the bug address also go to the same list. |
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| 20:48.14 | babilen | phox: thanks for commenting on that bug! |
| 20:48.34 | phox | babilen: now, or you mean what I already did? :) |
| 20:48.45 | phox | you mean insofar as having tested what version is not broken? |
| 20:48.50 | nimbiotics | babilen: I originally abandoned ubuntu because of gnome3 and went into distro jumping for a while. I don't know how I missed the fact that wheeze came w/gnome3 ... I wouldn't have fallen for it |
| 20:48.58 | babilen | phox: NoThat you already did. |
| 20:49.04 | nashant | anyone? Intel i7-4760 with HD4600 gfx? |
| 20:49.04 | phox | I'm really a Gentoovian. We're notorious for providing useful bugreports. |
| 20:49.07 | phox | :P |
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| 20:49.31 | phox | including the other 2 bugs of mine that are being ignored, which would take the maintainers about 2 minutes each to fix given the information I've provided =/ |
| 20:50.57 | nimbiotics | babilen: been using wheezy/gnome3 for about a year and gnome started misbehaving a couple of days ago. Since we don't get along anyways, I'd rather get rid of it for good, or start distro juming again ... seems like gnome3 is faster than me when it comes to jumping though :D |
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| 20:52.02 | phox | I'm inclined to go harass one of the lazy-ass maintainers on his Twitter. Is that particularly frowned upon, when a slacker maintainer has been ignoring a ridiculously-simple-to-fix bug for half a year? |
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| 20:53.06 | nimbiotics | babilen: *left ubuntu because of Unity (and now gnome is a copy of it BTW) |
| 20:53.23 | shawnbon206 | unity is a copy of gnome |
| 20:53.26 | shawnbon206 | lol |
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| 20:56.28 | nashant | So nobody else out there has a 4th series i7? |
| 20:56.43 | shawnbon206 | is thaf haswell? |
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| 20:56.47 | nashant | yup |
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| 20:57.21 | shawnbon206 | loads of people do. i have a few friends who do and i dont have very many friends |
| 20:57.27 | shawnbon206 | :P |
| 20:57.27 | nashant | lol |
| 20:57.42 | nashant | Do any of them run Debian? |
| 20:58.03 | babilen | nashant: I'd recommend to try a newer kernel from backports. See "/msg dpkg bdo kernel" |
| 20:58.24 | nashant | babilen: yeah, I tried that |
| 20:58.36 | babilen | (or track jessie or testing -- /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie) |
| 20:59.01 | babilen | nashant: There is also #intel-gfx for more specific support (for what it's worth) |
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| 20:59.42 | nashant | I'll give that a shot too, cheers babilen |
| 21:00.30 | babilen | Good luck! |
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| 21:02.22 | jhutchins | So a "Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7500" isn't an i3 or anything, right? |
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| 21:03.32 | nashant | Thanks. I think I'll need it! I'd like to stick with wheezy really, but I think I may have to Jessify myself |
| 21:03.42 | nashant | doing it now. Hopefully it works!! |
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| 21:07.02 | bronaugh | so in a debian source package's 'debian' directory, which file defines the build dependencies? |
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| 21:08.27 | ompaul | bronaugh: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/build.en.html |
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| 21:09.12 | bronaugh | ok, thanks. |
| 21:09.29 | ompaul | you're welcome |
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| 21:11.09 | friedturkey | hi |
| 21:11.38 | friedturkey | what is the standard debian release, not the inet download one, i need one for a live cd |
| 21:11.57 | friedturkey | does debian have apt-get? |
| 21:12.28 | bronaugh | no, debian uses yum. |
| 21:13.02 | babilen | friedturkey: apt-ge was developed for and by Debian, yes |
| 21:13.28 | babilen | bronaugh: Please try to provide factually correct information (or don't say anything if you don't know the answer) |
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| 21:14.01 | bronaugh | babilen: what? no snark? |
| 21:14.03 | kRush | but.. aptitude? |
| 21:14.14 | stmiller | live torrents: http://www.debian.org/distrib/ |
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| 21:15.02 | stmiller | Better link http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ |
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| 21:15.28 | friedturkey | what i don't understand is that debian has 7 cds and *buntu has only 1 |
| 21:15.36 | friedturkey | i cannot fit 7 cds on a live usb drive |
| 21:15.44 | babilen | friedturkey: What exactly do you mean by "standard debian release" ? We provide plenty of images and I wouldn't consider any of those any more standard than the other. |
| 21:15.56 | centrx | friedturkey, You only need one CD. In fact, you can do a netinstall with a 220MB CD |
| 21:16.11 | babilen | friedturkey: You don't need all 7 CDs for the installation. The entirety of the CD set contains *all* packages in Debian. |
| 21:16.17 | babilen | dpkg: tell friedturkey -about install debian |
| 21:16.20 | bronaugh | friedturkey: ubuntu's "universe" ~= debian's normal package list. |
| 21:16.24 | babilen | dpkg: tell friedturkey -about netinst |
| 21:16.27 | friedturkey | with netinstall, i can have a live and persistant usb flash drive installation |
| 21:16.31 | babilen | dpkg: tell friedturkey -about various cd1 |
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| 21:17.00 | babilen | friedturkey: You would use the live images for that, see http://live.debian.net/manual/1.x/html/persistence.html |
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| 21:17.36 | friedturkey | oh okay |
| 21:17.43 | friedturkey | i mean the "update" cds, there are 7 of them |
| 21:18.23 | free_ice | why are there 7 update cds? |
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| 21:18.44 | free_ice | and i reckon i cannot make a live usb system with a 250 mb inet cd |
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| 21:19.30 | babilen | free_ice: You want the live images (as said already) for persistent and live "installs" to a USB stick |
| 21:20.01 | ompaul | free_ice: if you read this you will answer that and many more questions about what the cds are http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/ |
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| 21:21.21 | shawnbon206 | free_ice you want a live cd? |
| 21:21.25 | free_ice | there isn't a buntu os that is based on kde, is there |
| 21:21.36 | shawnbon206 | ku |
| 21:21.44 | shawnbon206 | kubuntu |
| 21:22.02 | free_ice | kubuntu is xfce |
| 21:22.14 | shawnbon206 | no xubuntu is xfce |
| 21:22.14 | kRush | sure |
| 21:22.27 | free_ice | oh |
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| 21:22.50 | free_ice | okay, i like lxde , but lubuntu doesn't have enough support, so i will use lxde debian |
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| 21:23.11 | shawnbon206 | lxde is a good choice |
| 21:23.17 | shawnbon206 | i use straight openbox |
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| 21:25.17 | free_ice | inetinstt allows you to download lxde, xfce or kubuntu or so, and if you downloaded just lxde version rather than inetinst lxde option, then you would get the same thing, right? |
| 21:25.48 | free_ice | that is the main thing inetinst does right, it doesn't have anything special except let you choose |
| 21:25.50 | free_ice | ? |
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| 21:26.07 | centrx | free_ice, Yes |
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| 21:26.48 | shawnbon206 | crunchbang is like a community debian spin off with openbox as a wm. theres no under the hood differences just a more polished out of the box experience than installing minimal debian and then adding on what you want afterwards |
| 21:27.06 | CyberGabber | free_ice: maybe you can find your favorite distro here > take a look at http://distrowatch.com/ click in rightcolumn on top100 disto |
| 21:28.07 | free_ice | it says lubuntu is more popular than xubuntu, but if if you look into it, it has less support tahn xubuntu. so, that is rather sad |
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| 21:30.51 | sharky | free_ice, both work good for a novice |
| 21:31.28 | shawnbon206 | if youre a power user i feel like ubuntu will hold you back |
| 21:32.07 | shawnbon206 | how much is your linux experience? i am guessing very little? |
| 21:33.31 | shawnbon206 | and why dont you want xfce? i am OB user but i have used all of them before |
| 21:34.01 | sharky | shawnbon206, are you asking me or free_ice? |
| 21:34.11 | shawnbon206 | free_ice |
| 21:34.19 | sharky | ok |
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| 21:35.52 | shawnbon206 | free_ice have you tried cinnamon? |
| 21:36.10 | babilen | free_ice: All of them let you install everything, they simply differ in their preselection and package that are on the images |
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| 21:36.23 | free_ice | my linux expierence? i installed and used netbsd, freebsd, slackware, openbsd from 1996-~2001, and used windows from 2001-2009 |
| 21:36.58 | free_ice | rather, i still use windows |
| 21:37.18 | ompaul | free_ice: install debian, get it over with ;-) |
| 21:37.54 | sharky | free_ice, yes with XFCE and all is cool :D |
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| 21:38.46 | sharky | with cool I also mean your processor and video card :D |
| 21:39.09 | centrx | free_ice, They still make Windows? |
| 21:39.37 | sharky | centrx, good one |
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| 21:40.25 | free_ice | windows is good for multi media and easy use. I like it for watching videos all the time and htpc box |
| 21:40.32 | free_ice | i have linux on laptop |
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| 21:41.32 | fe0dor | hello ! |
| 21:41.51 | sharky | use windows, let nsa in! |
| 21:42.14 | fe0dor | someone use he the web proxy polipo ? |
| 21:42.18 | sharky | and *others* |
| 21:42.24 | fe0dor | i've a little question about it |
| 21:42.57 | free_ice | windows is also better for torrent boxes and also better for general browsing rather than computer specific browsing |
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| 21:43.11 | free_ice | it is a better email system too, it makes you feel like you are part of general population more |
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| 21:43.16 | shawnbon206 | free_ice popularity on distrowatch doesnt mean better. that just shows what noobs who are reading distrowatch are looking at |
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| 21:43.24 | sharky | free_ice, nope it is not |
| 21:43.36 | shawnbon206 | torrentboxes are always linux or bsd |
| 21:43.39 | shawnbon206 | lol |
| 21:43.43 | shawnbon206 | youre trippin |
| 21:43.44 | free_ice | well, it makes you feel more like general population and average person |
| 21:44.01 | free_ice | so, you are more part of general user friendly society |
| 21:44.01 | fe0dor | nobody use polipo ? |
| 21:44.01 | shawnbon206 | thats what makes you happy? |
| 21:44.06 | teraflop | damm im gonna get an iso to install windows right now :P |
| 21:44.30 | shawnbon206 | feels like an outcast. |
| 21:44.40 | shawnbon206 | oh well time to play steam on debian |
| 21:44.42 | sharky | free_ice, GNU/Linux is user friendly nowadays and its getting better |
| 21:44.49 | fe0dor | the world is running under linux. |
| 21:44.55 | teraflop | sure fe0dor |
| 21:44.55 | fe0dor | that's the point |
| 21:44.57 | shawnbon206 | my android phone is sad too because its linux |
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| 21:45.24 | fe0dor | teraflop: do you use polipo ? :d |
| 21:45.34 | teraflop | no sorry :) |
| 21:45.36 | free_ice | I think it is better social media os, it is more like if you want to talk to general population too or something. i don't know, it is just a good os in general.... i haven't analyzed it more in thought, however, it is differently better multimedia os, for watching movies |
| 21:45.42 | fe0dor | oww bad :( |
| 21:45.50 | kRush | get win>8, see how happy you are then =p |
| 21:45.52 | free_ice | deffinately |
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| 21:45.55 | shawnbon206 | the internet was started on bsd and made popular by linux |
| 21:46.04 | shawnbon206 | the world runs on linux |
| 21:46.15 | free_ice | yeah, bsd is better for servers |
| 21:46.17 | fe0dor | i've seen an horror movie last night |
| 21:46.18 | teraflop | free_ice: are a customer or a reseller? |
| 21:46.25 | teraflop | oh my |
| 21:46.25 | shawnbon206 | youre just joining the winners by coming to linux |
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| 21:46.29 | fe0dor | the killer was named "windows" |
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| 21:47.36 | mtn | wonders where the debian channel went |
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| 21:47.54 | shawnbon206 | lol windows is better for multimedia? tell that to my raspberry pi, which runs openelec (linux based) like a top, and could not physically run windows unless it was windows 3.1 |
| 21:47.54 | sharky | fe0dor, was he also a nsa agent? |
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| 21:48.11 | shawnbon206 | and it decodes remuxes without flinching |
| 21:48.12 | fe0dor | oh god, yes ! did you see it ? |
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| 21:48.27 | free_ice | how long has debian been popular, i remember when bsd ran the show, and before that it was redhat |
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| 21:48.51 | sharky | shawnbon206, and also vlc which is free and open source |
| 21:48.51 | centrx | We have a comedian here |
| 21:48.57 | phox | mtn: I was wondering the same about the package maintainers and QA folks :P |
| 21:49.10 | shawnbon206 | yeah vlc runs the most videos of all |
| 21:49.13 | phox | BSD ran what show, what? |
| 21:49.25 | sharky | fe0dor, haven't seen it |
| 21:49.30 | teraflop | yeah centrx weekends on irc are awfull |
| 21:49.40 | shawnbon206 | bsd kinda started the internet, then linux took over because of apache |
| 21:49.47 | free_ice | freebsd and the like ran the show around ~1995 |
| 21:49.53 | centrx | Which show |
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| 21:50.02 | shawnbon206 | the internet show, on fox |
| 21:50.05 | phox | free_ice: but not exactly "after redhat" as you seem to have implied |
| 21:50.12 | phox | RH started to pick up speed in the late '90s |
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| 21:50.24 | shawnbon206 | phox correct |
| 21:50.30 | centrx | I don't remember any of this from "Hackers" |
| 21:50.34 | free_ice | RH was most popular until it got bought by a corporation |
| 21:50.34 | phox | like I think RH3 was already about 1996-1997 or something |
| 21:50.43 | phox | centrx: It's a UNIX system! I know this! |
| 21:50.47 | ws2k3 | Hello i am having an odd issue with debian 7.2. when i add a raid array and mount it it works fine but then when i reboot my raid array is gone... |
| 21:50.55 | phox | centrx: I keep meaning to say that to people around the office when helping them with stuff |
| 21:50.59 | phox | but I always forget :( |
| 21:51.15 | fe0dor | ws2k3: its a windows channel here, sorry |
| 21:51.30 | fe0dor | we will rename the channel |
| 21:51.44 | phox | ws2k3: you need to actually write out your md config to /etc/mdadm.conf. there's documentation somewhere. I disagree with this approach, but there you have it. |
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| 21:52.18 | ws2k3 | ah so afther i create the raid array i need to write the config ? |
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| 21:52.38 | shawnbon206 | free_ice check out xfce if youre a windows refugee |
| 21:52.38 | phox | yeah mdadm has a way to spew its current config so it reloads it at boot |
| 21:53.06 | phox | 'debian mdadm.conf' might be appriate search terms. I've switched away from mdadm and am trying to forget all of this, so I don't know the details offhand :) |
| 21:53.22 | shawnbon206 | thats a good place to start. youll eventually try all of the DE's and WM's by distro hopping |
| 21:53.32 | shawnbon206 | try many many live CDs |
| 21:53.45 | smrtz|nix | Hey, I'm trying to run a script on my raspberry Pi, but I'm getting permission errors. The script developers don't konw what's wrong, and since I'm running raspbian, I thought I could ask here? |
| 21:53.46 | shawnbon206 | knoppix is a good one showcasing lxde |
| 21:54.11 | ws2k3 | i just putted my main in rc.local to make sure my machines boot now going to reboot i now created the array and written the config |
| 21:54.15 | free_ice | also, another aspect, is that bsd was more popular in usa , especially west coast, while debian i think was more popular in europe in the 90s, or omething like that |
| 21:54.24 | phox | ws2k3: oh one more thing |
| 21:54.42 | phox | ws2k3: I think you might need to run the update-initramfs or whatever script, so all of that crap ends up in your initrd |
| 21:54.47 | shawnbon206 | beginning to think free_ice is a troll |
| 21:55.20 | free_ice | dude, i am saying there was a distro difference in usa and europe |
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| 21:55.27 | free_ice | europe always liked some other distro, or something |
| 21:55.31 | free_ice | i can't remember the details |
| 21:55.42 | kRush | dude, nobody cares |
| 21:55.46 | ws2k3 | i see because i just did create array -> write config -> reboot -> array gone. |
| 21:55.48 | shawnbon206 | in the 90s. thats very interesting |
| 21:56.32 | sharky | RH comes after Debian |
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| 21:57.07 | sharky | check what The Man has to say: http://ianmurdock.com/linux/linux-family-tree-version-0-90/ |
| 21:58.36 | ws2k3 | i see because i just did create array -> write config -> reboot -> array gone. |
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| 21:59.19 | free_ice | likewise, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Unix_history-simple.png |
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| 22:00.10 | free_ice | so yeah, when they first came out, bsd was more popular in the usa, as i am guessing and debian was more popular in europe |
| 22:00.21 | free_ice | and then it looks like linux took over more and debian is more popular everywhere |
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| 22:01.58 | n0arch | /clear/clear |
| 22:02.04 | shawnbon206 | bsd is more popular in desktop tho |
| 22:02.20 | shawnbon206 | osx ^_^ |
| 22:02.35 | centrx | "Popular" = AWESOME |
| 22:02.42 | ScottE | osx is absolutely *not* bsd |
| 22:03.17 | ScottE | Just because they took the userspace tools and hacked them up doesn't make it bsd |
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| 22:04.57 | centrx | based on |
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| 22:05.22 | nkuttler | !ot |
| 22:05.22 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
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| 22:07.32 | shawnbon206 | from wikipedia:: OS X is based upon the Mach kernel. Certain parts from FreeBSD's and NetBSD's implementation ofUnix were incorporated in NeXTSTEP, the core of Mac OS X. |
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| 22:07.47 | shawnbon206 | freebsds kernel is also based on mach_kernel |
| 22:07.56 | shawnbon206 | so its a mashup originally |
| 22:08.04 | shawnbon206 | its defiantly unix |
| 22:08.12 | jelly-home | *cough*#debian-offtopic*cough* |
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| 22:15.32 | ArchDuke | Where would I go about finding the latest drivers for a GeForce 8800GTX? Hoping updating/changing drivers will fix my overscan issue |
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| 22:16.00 | zinx | ArchDuke: overscan issues are fixed via configuration generally |
| 22:16.02 | phox | overscan is most likely an incorrect modeline |
| 22:16.15 | phox | the alternative you suggested is less than 1% of the time |
| 22:16.31 | phox | time to go learn about EDID data. have fun! |
| 22:16.39 | phox | :) |
| 22:16.44 | ArchDuke | XD |
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| 22:17.03 | ArchDuke | Not as simple as changing a line in my xorg.conf? |
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| 22:32.47 | nabblet | hi, when i play media (misoc, video, etc) they occasinally hang every minute or so for a moment. i checked dmesg but there's nothing. accoding to 'ps -A' i don'thave pulse running. how do i go on? |
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| 22:35.03 | randomstranger | PLEASE PEOPLE HELP ME |
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| 22:35.07 | randomstranger | HOW TO USE CRON |
| 22:35.38 | buu | TRY MAN CRON |
| 22:35.58 | randomstranger | I HAVE A VPS DEBIAN AND I THINK ITS NOT INSTALLED BY DEFAULT |
| 22:35.59 | nabblet | randomstranger: if you press shift, the capital letters will go away |
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| 22:36.01 | randomstranger | HOW TO SEE IF ITS INSTALLED |
| 22:36.10 | randomstranger | nabblet thx |
| 22:36.17 | nabblet | :) |
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| 22:36.37 | randomstranger | AnYoNe HeLp Me? |
| 22:36.44 | nabblet | lol |
| 22:36.58 | phox | so is there anywhere to complain about people sitting there pretending to be package maintainers, who can't be buggered maintaining packages at all? seems they should resign if they're just going to sit on their thumbs. |
| 22:37.23 | nabblet | randomstranger: what do you want to achive? |
| 22:37.37 | randomstranger | nabblet use cron and add tasks to it to execute |
| 22:37.39 | phox | shaking down a maintainer so he does something about the broken packages he's built. |
| 22:37.45 | randomstranger | and make it start in startup by default |
| 22:38.14 | phox | all he needs to do is rebuild them, just on a non-broken system. but he's been ignoring a broken package for months and months. |
| 22:38.56 | nabblet | randomstranger: ps -A | grep cron |
| 22:39.00 | phox | and of course, broken packages and ignored bugs make Debian look bad, right? so I'd figure there's some QA oversight somewhere that goes "yeah that's bad, we should tell this person to fix their broken package or remove them as the package maintainer" |
| 22:39.19 | randomstranger | nabblet I think its running |
| 22:39.23 | randomstranger | I get a question mark after pid |
| 22:39.36 | nabblet | randomstranger: should be ok - its running |
| 22:39.42 | nabblet | randomstranger: so what's the matter then? |
| 22:39.58 | randomstranger | nabblet I wasn't sure coz it said command cron is not found |
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| 22:41.17 | nabblet | randomstranger: when i tpe 'cro' and the press tab for autocomplete i only get crontab offered |
| 22:41.27 | randomstranger | ok |
| 22:41.33 | randomstranger | nabblet I can't understand all the guides |
| 22:41.43 | nabblet | randomstranger: where are you from? |
| 22:41.44 | randomstranger | nabblet would it be easy for u to guide me how to add a task to cron? |
| 22:41.50 | randomstranger | Greece |
| 22:42.16 | nabblet | randomstranger: i rarely use cron/crontab |
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| 22:43.19 | nabblet | randomstranger: you will need to learn about crontab |
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| 22:43.32 | nabblet | randomstranger: google for "cron tutorial" or anything like that |
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| 22:43.54 | phox | there are also manpages with good examples IIRC |
| 22:43.56 | phox | man crontab |
| 22:44.02 | centrx | randomstranger, Follow this format if it looks straightforward: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron#Examples |
| 22:44.32 | randomstranger | thx a lot |
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| 22:44.56 | randomstranger | so I can only execute batch scripts |
| 22:45.04 | randomstranger | or can I execute commands |
| 22:45.06 | nabblet | randomstranger: also next time refrain from using capital all the time - that will piss people off and they will ignore or even mute/kick/ban you |
| 22:45.07 | randomstranger | such as java |
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| 22:45.28 | nabblet | randomstranger: commands. but that command could start a specific java program |
| 22:45.32 | randomstranger | for example java -jar /path/tojar |
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| 22:45.40 | randomstranger | ok sounds good |
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| 22:46.08 | aliensyn | hey guys |
| 22:46.09 | aliensyn | verytime I edit my deb with ar, after recompiling the deb, I get status 2 unexected line in archive editing the arch info in the control file |
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| 22:48.03 | babilen | randomstranger: Lay of the CAPS LOCK. I've said it before it would be much appreciated if I don't have to again. |
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| 22:50.14 | randomstranger | babilen since you are so wise would you mind explaining to me what are daemon |
| 22:50.47 | babilen | randomstranger: There is this thing called the internet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computing) |
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| 22:51.02 | randomstranger | I don't like articles |
| 22:51.05 | randomstranger | or wiki |
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| 22:51.19 | randomstranger | they go into unnecessary information and miss the essence |
| 22:51.35 | babilen | randomstranger: Okay, you don't have to read it. I really don't mind |
| 22:52.03 | epsilon | daemons are these evil guys eating up kids refusing to read stuff |
| 22:52.14 | randomstranger | epsilon I thought so :) |
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| 22:56.06 | nabblet | hi, when i play media (misoc, video, etc) they occasinally hang/loop every minute or so for a moment (less than a second). i checked dmesg but there's nothing that looks related. accoding to 'ps -A' i don'thave pulse running. here do i continue my search? googling wasn |
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| 22:56.18 | nabblet | 't very helpful, becuase my terms seem to be too generic |
| 22:58.44 | kRush | randomstranger, there's always simple.wikipedia.org |
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| 22:59.55 | jhutchins | nabblet: Any particular kind of video? Local or remote/streamed? |
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| 23:00.21 | nabblet | jhutchins: local |
| 23:00.38 | randomstranger | nabblet http://www.unixgeeks.org/security/newbie/unix/cron-1.html |
| 23:00.40 | nabblet | jhutchins: it seems like format or player does not matter |
| 23:00.53 | randomstranger | according to this I should do ps aux | grep crond and see a line with crond |
| 23:01.06 | randomstranger | I don't understand why I don't see it but I see for cron |
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| 23:01.35 | nabblet | randomstranger: well, heave a look from what decade that site is ;) |
| 23:01.38 | free_ice | In "universal-usb-installer" pendrivelinux.com windows program, I am able to install *buntu as a live system WITH a persistant space. However, when I click to have a usb with Debian live or Debian net cd, it doesn't give me an option to have a persistant file space |
| 23:01.48 | free_ice | i don't understand, i cannot have persistant file space if i install debian? |
| 23:01.54 | free_ice | that is just horrible |
| 23:02.02 | free_ice | is there an alternative program? |
| 23:02.21 | randomstranger | nobblet nice observation |
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| 23:02.26 | jhutchins | free_ice: It's just that nobody has bothered to publish a setup for Debian. |
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| 23:03.23 | free_ice | i think live enviornement might already have a persistant filesystem |
| 23:03.24 | nabblet | free_ice: quick and dirty solution would be making a second partition and then mounting your /home and /etc of the live systme there... i gues |
| 23:03.27 | nabblet | guess |
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| 23:03.47 | jhutchins | One could always google debian live persistent |
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| 23:03.56 | nabblet | or that |
| 23:04.12 | jhutchins | free_ice: For that matter, you can do a normal debian instlal to a flash drive. Pretty slow, but it works. |
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| 23:04.22 | free_ice | http://live.debian.net/manual/1.x/html/persistence.html tells me how |
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| 23:04.34 | riceandbeans | can I take a running system and dm-crypt/luks it or do I need to start from scratch to do that? |
| 23:04.55 | randomstranger | nabblet mate can you walk me through a small sample of program I am trying to do with cron very easy stuff for u |
| 23:05.13 | nabblet | randomstranger: no |
| 23:05.16 | randomstranger | thx |
| 23:05.27 | foul_owl | Sorry for the exceedingly stupid question, but I did read https://wiki.debian.org/Iceweasel How do Iceweasel version numbers correspond to Firefox version numbers? (If that is indeed the case) |
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| 23:05.44 | randomstranger | foul_owl no question is too stupid man! |
| 23:05.55 | foul_owl | :) |
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| 23:07.02 | randomstranger | How to append to the end of a file with bash |
| 23:07.06 | babilen | foul_owl: They are more or less the same (modulo Debian revision like every other package) |
| 23:07.07 | randomstranger | bash script |
| 23:07.35 | babilen | randomstranger: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide/InputAndOutput (seriously) |
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| 23:07.58 | randomstranger | babilen sorry I google but I don't find the same stuff as you |
| 23:08.03 | nabblet | randomstranger: there is an irc channel for bash, go there, it will be better for you |
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| 23:10.12 | foul_owl | On my jessie box, I'm running Iceweasel 17.0.9, whereas on my ubuntu box I'm running firefox 27.0. Is Iceweasel horrendously out of date? This chart makes it look like 17.0.9 is still current: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_release_history but unsure |
| 23:10.41 | nabblet | foul_owl: seems like the version number correspond directly http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/iceweasel-version-vs-firefox-version-839634/ |
| 23:10.57 | riceandbeans | randomstranger: >> |
| 23:10.59 | nabblet | on the other hand, that website is from 2010 |
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| 23:11.08 | nabblet | foul_owl: so things might have changed |
| 23:11.34 | babilen | foul_owl: Pull 24 from unstable or 26 from experimental or use any of the other release channels at http://mozilla.debian.net - it doesn't really make sense to run testing witout being able to pull from unstbale at this point in the release cycle anyway. If you don't know how to do this read "/msg dpkg tum" |
| 23:11.39 | dinkus | foul_owl, jessie should be at 24.2, try doing an upgrade |
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| 23:12.13 | babilen | foul_owl: And yes, as I mentioned: Numbers correspond directly (modulo Debian revision (i.e. -N )) |
| 23:12.28 | riceandbeans | the problem with testing is things can be broken for a long time due to time requirements to get updates from sid |
| 23:12.30 | babilen | foul_owl: And yes, jessie has 24 like sid. |
| 23:12.37 | babilen | judd: v iceweasel |
| 23:12.38 | judd | Package: iceweasel on i386 -- squeeze: 3.5.16-20; squeeze-security: 3.5.16-20; squeeze-backports: 10.0.12esr-1~bpo60+1; wheezy: 17.0.10esr-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 17.0.10esr-1~deb7u1; jessie: 24.2.0esr-1; sid: 24.2.0esr-1; experimental: 26.0-1 |
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| 23:13.19 | foul_owl | Hmm, yeah let me try an upgrade |
| 23:13.32 | GJdan | When I was installing I went ahead and told the installer to build the minimal kernel, but now I want the full kernel. How would I go about aquiring the full kernel now? |
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| 23:14.17 | babilen | GJdan: I take it that you are referring to the initramfs rather than the kernel? |
| 23:14.29 | GJdan | babilen: perhaps |
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| 23:14.58 | GJdan | the problem is just that I'm trying to set up xen, and as it happens, the minimal kernel doesn't have the modules that a domU needs |
| 23:15.44 | babilen | GJdan: Well, only you can know what you want. You are being asked if you want an initramfs that is tailored to your system or a "complete" one .. Take a look at /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf and at MODULES=most in there. You'll also need update-initramfs after making changes |
| 23:16.00 | foul_owl | Thanks folks! |
| 23:16.01 | GJdan | right |
| 23:16.32 | babilen | GJdan: If you simply need to load additional modules that is being configured in /etc/modules and you can just list additional ones in there. A look at the wiki page for Xen might also be worth a try! :) |
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| 23:19.26 | GJdan | oh look at that, seems I don't need it |
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| 23:23.26 | cast | WD my cloud, seems to run debian. anyone have much experience with it? if a vanilla debian install was feasible i'd consider one |
| 23:25.22 | jhutchins | cast: Are you willing to be the first to try? |
| 23:26.11 | cast | its cheap so am considering it |
| 23:26.19 | cast | 512MB RAM, dual core ARM |
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| 23:26.47 | nabblet | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:26.58 | nabblet | cast: ^ |
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| 23:27.57 | cast | runs linux 3.2.26 |
| 23:28.16 | jhutchins | nabblet: It's a Western Digital device they call "my cloud". |
| 23:28.31 | cast | nabblet: its a relatively cheap NAS appliance with a 1gb eth port and one drive from western digital, quite new |
| 23:28.52 | nabblet | jhutchins: cast ok, thank you |
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| 23:29.44 | cast | not terrible data transfer speeds, in its stock setup |
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| 23:30.23 | nabblet | jhutchins: do you have any idea on my audio question? |
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| 23:36.03 | sabotai_ | Has anyone had any luck installing bumblebee in Debian? |
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| 23:36.23 | sabotai_ | I can't find the package |
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| 23:41.29 | nkuttler | !tell sabotai_ about bumblebee |
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| 23:41.54 | sabotai_ | nm i think i have it |
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| 23:42.57 | free_ice | i installed debian live usb, but when i load it, the wifi isn't enabled |
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| 23:43.06 | sharky_ | sababa, its in wheezy-backports http://packages.debian.org/wheezy-backports/bumblebee |
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| 23:44.51 | sharky_ | free_ice, which DE do you use? xfce, gnome3 ..? |
| 23:45.12 | free_ice | lxde |
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| 23:45.58 | free_ice | do you know how to do it |
| 23:46.03 | free_ice | how would you configure it with gnome |
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| 23:46.26 | sharky_ | free_ice, http://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1655 |
| 23:46.35 | free_ice | thanks |
| 23:46.47 | sharky_ | look there are 2 links |
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| 23:50.57 | sharky_ | free_ice, are you there? |
| 23:51.03 | free_ice | yeah |
| 23:51.05 | free_ice | i don't understand it |
| 23:51.14 | free_ice | it says to install iw |
| 23:51.16 | free_ice | but i want a frontend |
| 23:51.33 | sharky_ | yes I understand I think wicd is for you |
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| 23:52.18 | sharky_ | free_ice, this one http://wicd.sourceforge.net/screenshot.php |
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| 23:52.34 | sharky_ | free_ice, are you root? |
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| 23:53.11 | sharky_ | free_ice, or you don't know much about terminal? |
| 23:56.09 | sharky_ | free_ice, don't get scared, its easy stuff |
| 23:57.16 | free_ice | i installed it |
| 23:57.21 | free_ice | but it doesn't find any wireless networks |
| 23:57.28 | free_ice | i think my wifi network card is not active |
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| 23:57.53 | sharky_ | free_ice, see with # ifconfig -a |
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| 23:58.00 | sharky_ | if you have wlan0 |
| 23:58.16 | sharky_ | or with sudo as normal user |
| 23:58.21 | free_ice | i have wwan0 |
| 23:58.25 | free_ice | and eth0 |
| 23:58.37 | sharky_ | wlan0? |
| 23:58.49 | free_ice | no |
| 23:58.53 | free_ice | wwan0 |
| 23:58.57 | free_ice | no wlan0 |
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| 23:59.43 | sharky_ | free_ice, can you paste ifconfig -a here http://paste.debian.net/ |
| 23:59.53 | sharky_ | if you want delete mac adresses |
