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| 07:45.07 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 8 Jessie released! /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie ; /msg dpkg install jessie | current point releases: /msg dpkg 8.0; /msg dpkg 7.8 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 08:07.17 | jvelasquez | orzo, The files were i386, dpkg says it's an allowed foriegn arch, I got the package openssh-client_6.6p1-8_i386.deb, and my files match exactly. so I'm not sure how it happened, but I'm not rooted. my websites are safe for now, i think. thank you for the help. |
| 08:10.21 | jvelasquez | orzo, wait. one thing. when you run: unhide -f -m -d sys procall brute reverse, do you get HIDDEN PID's found ? that may be transitory? |
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| 08:13.17 | delight | ping has a -T option that expects a timestamp option but I donât know what the valid format is for that ⦠whatever I tryed I get a âInvalid timestamp typeâ ⦠Does someone know what that option has to look like |
| 08:13.46 | delight | ? |
| 08:14.38 | jvelasquez | delight, tsonly |
| 08:14.55 | delight | oh tsonly is an option ⦠ok Iâll try that ;) |
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| 08:15.21 | jvelasquez | delight, tsandaddr or tsprespec host1 [host2 [host3 [host4]]] |
| 08:15.41 | delight | yes got it ⦠I saw the man page ⦠but thought that those are just suggestions ⦠|
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| 08:15.47 | delight | not the real options |
| 08:15.58 | delight | misundertood while reading ⦠thnx a bunch :) |
| 08:16.00 | jvelasquez | :) |
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| 08:16.53 | jvelasquez | delight, want to do me a favor and run unhide? |
| 08:17.02 | jvelasquez | when you run: unhide -f -m -d sys procall brute reverse, do you get HIDDEN PID's found ? that may be transitory? |
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| 08:18.13 | delight | let me check |
| 08:18.30 | delight | need to install unhide |
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| 08:19.41 | jvelasquez | it checks for hidden processes. |
| 08:20.03 | delight | yes I read the manpage ;) |
| 08:20.16 | delight | searching |
| 08:20.56 | meseira | hi all |
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| 08:21.09 | jvelasquez | delight, today i learned i did not have openssh-client installed. but I use ssh daily. so I've scratching my head since. |
| 08:21.19 | meseira | what are the tools to deal with subuid and subgid ranges? |
| 08:21.39 | meseira | to add one, i know that i can use usermod |
| 08:21.57 | meseira | i can grep /etc/subuid and /etc/subgid |
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| 08:22.42 | meseira | but, for instance, if i want to check the owner of a given subuid, is there a tool? |
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| 08:23.02 | meseira | or do i have to script it? |
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| 08:36.13 | taylanub | I had an [error] line during boot but the screen cleared and I couldn't read it. I didn't have bootlogd installed, and dmesg doesn't seem to show anything relevant either. I know that it was the very last or fore-last line though; where can I find out what it was? |
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| 08:38.28 | SynrGy | install bootlogd, reboot, and hope the same error occurs again |
| 08:39.27 | anddam | oh that chances law, I was typing a bootlogd question as well |
| 08:39.44 | anddam | jvelasquez: what does 'which ssh' say? |
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| 08:40.08 | jvelasquez | /usr/bin/ssh, dpkg -S says, no package. |
| 08:40.39 | anddam | ok, I suggest keep scratching head |
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| 08:41.52 | anddam | all of a sudden this Debian system started showing a boot message with swinging red cursor rather than instantaneous green "ok" the other lines get, it's about "init LSB script" and it's got a "no limit" tag |
| 08:42.10 | anddam | I'm installing bootlogd now, but I wonder what could trigger the change |
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| 08:44.16 | taylanub | hm, the error was *after* some output from my rc.local. what [foo] messages are printed after rc.local? maybe rc.local quit with a nonzero status, but I don't see why it would |
| 08:44.47 | anddam | on top of that I started seeing these https://gist.github.com/anddam/001f8b342944caba364a at boot |
| 08:45.06 | anddam | and later on when I plug/unplug memory stick(s) to USB ports |
| 08:45.31 | taylanub | its last line is "/sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 443 -j REDIRECT --to-port 9090" which I don't see failing (and can re-run with success) |
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| 08:46.35 | taylanub | is there anything else the init scripts do/print after running rc.local? |
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| 08:48.42 | anddam | when using GPT with UEFI should I install grub on the UEFI boot partition? |
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| 08:48.53 | anddam | UEFI doesn't have the "active" partition concept that MBR does, right? |
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| 08:50.55 | anddam | taylanub: did you get actual output in /var/log/boot? |
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| 08:51.17 | taylanub | anddam: I didn't have bootlogd installed. I installed it now and am rebooting. |
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| 08:54.09 | taylanub | is there any way to have the console escape sequences in /var/log/boot interpreted :\ |
| 08:54.31 | taylanub | also, it seems incomplete |
| 08:54.41 | anddam | what do you mean with "interpreted"? |
| 08:55.00 | anddam | I guess you want less -r but it may depend on what you meant |
| 08:55.16 | anddam | I'm on systemd and seems I have to use systemctl to inspect this |
| 08:55.19 | taylanub | they seem to be verbatim ^[[foo etc., as in really those separate ASCII characters |
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| 08:55.59 | taylanub | I need kind of a reverse cat -A |
| 08:56.28 | taylanub | well anyway, I can find the relevant text throughout the gibberish as well. the real problem is that the log is incomplete >_< |
| 08:56.44 | anddam | also I suspect I 'm having two issues, one asynch USB and one with LVM, the job waiting about a minute at boot is LVM home related while the USB drop some console message so the former output line is broken and continue on the next downward line |
| 08:56.49 | taylanub | maybe that means the rest should be in another log? |
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| 08:57.23 | anddam | taylanub: I don't really know, you don't say why you think it's incomplete |
| 08:57.43 | anddam | also you didn't specify if you're using sysvinit |
| 08:57.57 | taylanub | it ends with cupsd initialization. I'm pretty sure there's more items after that, and the output from my rc.local is missing. |
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| 08:58.08 | taylanub | yeah, Debian 7.4 plus dist-upgrade |
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| 09:01.37 | fnstudio | Hi! I'm looking for a debian netinst image that will set me up with testing. Is this ok: https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 09:01.42 | fnstudio | that says "Current daily snapshots" |
| 09:02.04 | fnstudio | does it mean "testing" (or "unstable")? |
| 09:03.24 | fnstudio | oh yes, http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/arch-latest/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 09:03.56 | fnstudio | the file name says it explicitly! http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/arch-latest/amd64/iso-cd/debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 09:03.58 | fnstudio | testing |
| 09:04.03 | fnstudio | thanks a lot! |
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| 09:11.19 | D-Boy | Hello, still facing this error May 13 08:38:59 desktop kernel: [46373.808021] [drm:i915_hangcheck_elapsed] *ERROR* Hangcheck timer elapsed... render ring idle <== screen freezing but the mouse still move, so i'm trying to upgrade the kernel maybe this is fixed on newer kernel, i'm on jessie with 3.16.0.4 how to install 3.19 or the 4.0 kernel ? |
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| 10:03.30 | Quitisomes | somebody can help me about the telnet service??? |
| 10:03.46 | SirLagz | Quitisomes: don't use telnet. Use SSH. |
| 10:04.16 | Quitisomes | i really need use it for my boss |
| 10:04.27 | SirLagz | Quitisomes: why would he need telnet ? |
| 10:04.37 | Quitisomes | i dont know but it's my boss |
| 10:04.38 | Quitisomes | t.t |
| 10:04.45 | Quitisomes | >_> |
| 10:04.50 | Quitisomes | im running service telnet status |
| 10:04.58 | SirLagz | Quitisomes: tell him to stop using insecure technology and use ssh :P |
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| 10:05.48 | Quitisomes | after debian installation and i can get it to walk |
| 10:05.50 | Quitisomes | cant |
| 10:05.55 | Quitisomes | any idea?? |
| 10:06.04 | Quitisomes | i know it's insecure but he want it then ... |
| 10:06.05 | Quitisomes | x.x |
| 10:06.30 | SirLagz | no idea. sorry. I don't use telnet |
| 10:06.51 | Quitisomes | ok p.p |
| 10:07.10 | SirLagz | what's he going to use it for anyway ? leak passwords to the internet ? |
| 10:07.20 | Quitisomes | really dont know |
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| 10:07.30 | SirLagz | well. Home time for me. |
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| 10:10.54 | phix | so I upgraded to Jessie, now cyrus-imapd doesn't work, it tells me I have no emails but I clearly do under /var/spool/cyrus/mail. using reconstruct -fr user/phix does nothing, now what? should I throw bricks through the package maintainers car window or is there a way to fix this? |
| 10:13.25 | teraflop | phix: idn but maybe if version changed there is/are new config/configs file/files you can diff |
| 10:14.07 | phix | teraflop: yeah I did diff imapd.conf and cyrus.conf, any others I missed?? |
| 10:14.29 | phix | mail spool is in the same pklace |
| 10:14.30 | phix | place* |
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| 10:16.07 | Quitisomes | i got a problem trying to install a service |
| 10:16.09 | teraflop | phix: idk, hard to guess from here if youre also doing, sasl, ldap, .... |
| 10:16.55 | ChrisH | Quitisomes: do not install telnet unless your Boss explains _written_ why you must do that. |
| 10:17.04 | teraflop | ChrisH: heh |
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| 10:17.35 | chrisc | anyone know how to install 64bit debian on a machine with a 32bit UEFI bios? The 32 bit multi-arch installer works, the 64 bit installer displays a blank screen... (lenovo flex 10) |
| 10:17.46 | Quitisomes | the problem is that when i do apt-get install telnetd it doesnt localize the packet |
| 10:17.51 | Quitisomes | any idea??? |
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| 10:18.01 | Quitisomes | im @_@ |
| 10:18.56 | phix | teraflop: I am using saslauthd which backs onto pam. I am using kerberos and ldap however that is transparent to cyrus as I have configured nss and pam |
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| 10:19.31 | ChrisH | Quitisomes: show us the output of "apt-get update ; apt-cache policy telnetd" on paste.debian.net please |
| 10:20.14 | phix | teraflop: any way to increase debug so the reconstruct tells me something useful instead of no output |
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| 10:20.45 | teraflop | phix: just gessing, youre telling me you updated a server with all that stuff and only cyrus got messed? well youre a lucky man |
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| 10:21.07 | phix | teraflop: yup, well sogo and asterisk did too but I know how to fix those |
| 10:21.21 | Quitisomes | paste.debian.net/176231 |
| 10:21.32 | teraflop | phix: I do not do thinks like that if I care about a server in production |
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| 10:22.29 | ChrisH | Quitisomes: you onle seem to have jessie/update and not the standard jessie repos in your sources.list... |
| 10:22.41 | phix | teraflop: This isn't a production server |
| 10:22.49 | phix | but still irritating |
| 10:23.24 | teraflop | phix: ah, anyway i think there are better ways of doing such things |
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| 10:23.47 | Quitisomes | and how can i correct that crish???? |
| 10:23.56 | teraflop | phix: as in parallel in a testing machine, vm or whatever |
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| 10:25.02 | ChrisH | dpkg: tell Quitisomes about sources.list |
| 10:25.04 | teraflop | phix: and reading carefully what the new versions of the sw changed if any |
| 10:25.41 | ChrisH | Quitisomes: and once more you should NOT Install telnetd at all unless you get a written order. This is a massive security hole beeing opened. |
| 10:26.14 | pfote | who needs telnetd? |
| 10:26.37 | ChrisH | pfote: Quitisomes' boss |
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| 10:27.21 | pfote | dangerous .. |
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| 10:28.02 | teraflop | not only dangerous... insane? |
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| 10:29.54 | inch | Buy a raspberry pi and usb-ethernet stick. Let the boss use his favourite telnet program to connect to the pi and tell himm to ssh from there :-) |
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| 10:31.38 | Quitisomes | thanks everybody |
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| 10:31.41 | Quitisomes | it working |
| 10:31.43 | Quitisomes | ^^ |
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| 10:32.58 | ChrisH | I would fire an admin installing telnetd without asking for a really good reason. beeing the boss is not a good reason! |
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| 10:33.21 | teraflop | ChrisH: you know, the boss is the boss |
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| 10:34.31 | ChrisH | If someone breaks in that way, the boss does not remember asking for installing telnetd. |
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| 10:34.46 | vandox | get a signed copy of the order |
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| 10:35.38 | ChrisH | that was what I asked for.... anyhow we are getting OT |
| 10:35.44 | vandox | also tell the boss why that is a bad idea |
| 10:35.59 | hiexpo | hmmm |
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| 10:36.12 | phix | hmmmmm |
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| 10:36.52 | phix | so now what>? |
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| 10:37.09 | vandox | take over the world |
| 10:37.36 | hiexpo | gotta watch out for those wifi guys |
| 10:37.58 | teraflop | ChrisH: youre right, but you know ... |
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| 10:38.34 | hiexpo | holly smack |
| 10:38.42 | teraflop | true that's OT |
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| 10:39.39 | hiexpo | true |
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| 10:49.21 | bash-prob_ | hey, can someone help with a bashrc alias? I want to use alias dupes='find . -exec basename {} \; | sed 's/\(.*\)\..*/\1/' | sort | uniq -c | grep -v "^[ \t]*1 "|sort -h' , but when running dupes I get "syntax error near unexpected token `('" |
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| 10:52.20 | phix | :/ DBERROR db5: /var/lib/cyrus/db/__db.001: No such file or directory |
| 10:53.47 | hiexpo | oops |
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| 10:55.25 | marieta | Is videohelp.com trustble download for older software versions? |
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| 10:56.09 | hiexpo | for what? |
| 10:56.45 | hiexpo | go to softpedia |
| 10:57.12 | marieta | is it trustble? |
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| 10:58.07 | hiexpo | or or sourceforge and yes |
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| 11:12.39 | rtypo | the primary mirror for my country (Romania) in this https://www.debian.org/mirror/list list is down |
| 11:12.51 | rtypo | should i tell anybody? |
| 11:13.24 | rtypo | not sure for how long. yesterday was the same |
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| 11:15.20 | marieta | rtypo: since Romania passed some law enforcement restrinctions to internet freedom, we are boycotting everything from your country. Understanding for our actions would be appretiated. |
| 11:15.24 | fireba11 | rtypo: i'd expect that is either intentional or the ppl administrating that box already know |
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| 11:17.19 | rtypo | marieta, fireba11: woah, unexpected explanation. will check that out. it's no problem, thanks. |
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| 11:18.34 | marieta | rtypo: that's the price for killing romanian revolution |
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| 11:20.20 | teraflop | marieta: what the hell are you talking about? |
| 11:20.36 | teraflop | please go #freedom or #politics |
| 11:20.38 | marieta | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:21.42 | teraflop | marieta: who are you calling motherfucker |
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| 11:21.45 | teraflop | me? |
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| 11:24.15 | marieta | ghosts, draculas and frankesteins will not harm my deeds |
| 11:24.56 | teraflop | marieta: gtfo |
| 11:25.01 | marieta | no you |
| 11:25.24 | marieta | that's right, |
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| 11:29.03 | marieta | no more socialism has colateral effects futu-Èi pizda mÄ-tii |
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| 11:29.27 | themill | marieta: wrong channel |
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| 11:32.32 | blixten | teraflop: you realy think he called you motherfucker? :P |
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| 12:05.41 | wald0 | how i can create a 64bit chroot in my 32bit system ? |
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| 12:06.02 | wald0 | seems like i cannot mount /proc, but the debootstrap itself seems to fail too |
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| 12:11.19 | fireba11 | wald0: not sure that is possible |
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| 12:21.17 | themill | wald0: you'd be able to do it if you first installed an amd64 kernel for the i386 system and then booted into that amd64 kernel. |
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| 12:23.17 | wald0 | ah, i see, let me try that |
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| 12:28.14 | cockroach | hi. i'm trying to have an application automatically started on tty1 after bootup. what is the systemd way to achieve this? i used to start it from rc.local but it seems with jessie that does no longer work. |
| 12:29.27 | petn-randall | Hi cockroach, what did you run in rc.local before? â http://paste.debian.net |
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| 12:30.52 | cockroach | petn-randall: i just added /usr/bin/my-application to it. it's a non-interactive shell script. |
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| 12:33.25 | fireba11 | themill: ah, interesting to know :-) though i don't think i have nay i386 installations left |
| 12:33.57 | petn-randall | cockroach: And "my-application" forked and backgrounded by itself? |
| 12:34.33 | cockroach | petn-randall: no, it stayed in the foreground. |
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| 12:34.44 | Huffyrt | Hello |
| 12:35.05 | petn-randall | cockroach: Then your system never completed booting if /etc/rc.local never exited. |
| 12:35.39 | cockroach | petn-randall: indeed. |
| 12:36.23 | Huffyrt | I'm installing Debian and it asks for firmware 2870rt - I've ignored it but can someone advise what I should do to get this firmware installed...its for a wireless adaptor |
| 12:36.32 | cockroach | petn-randall: that doesn't really matter though, the system does nothing other than running that application. |
| 12:36.51 | petn-randall | cockroach: What does "systemctl status rc-local" output for you? |
| 12:36.55 | jelly | Huffyrt: can you show the complete message? |
| 12:37.32 | petn-randall | cockroach: Depending on the setup, ssh might refuse connections until the system is up, etc. But if you don't have any problems you don't really need to fix it. |
| 12:37.52 | cockroach | petn-randall: says "active (exited)" |
| 12:38.19 | petn-randall | cockroach: And if you run /etc/rc.local by hand it works fine? |
| 12:38.37 | Huffyrt | I don't that complete message. Basically what I recall is that firmware rt2870 is missing but I can proceed with the Debian install anyway, which is what I'm currently doing |
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| 12:38.49 | cockroach | petn-randall: indeed |
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| 12:40.03 | cockroach | (brb) |
| 12:40.13 | petn-randall | cockroach: Does it depend on any environment variables that might not be available? "systemctl start rc-local" should start it then, then you can check the log output again. |
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| 12:40.20 | petn-randall | cockroach: Ok, laters. |
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| 12:41.38 | Huffyrt | I have found this website but it's unclear how I should proceed..I'm new to Linux. https://packages.debian.org/jessie/firmware-ralink |
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| 12:43.48 | Huffyrt | Anyone? |
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| 12:44.39 | jelly | oh, rt2870 sounds more familiar |
| 12:44.42 | jelly | !rt2870 |
| 12:44.43 | dpkg | Ralink 802.11n/g USB chipsets (RT2070, RT2770, RT2870, RT3070, RT3071, RT3072, RT3370, RT3572, RT5370, RT5372, RT5572) are supported by the rt2800usb Linux kernel driver. Firmware is required, ask me about <ralink firmware>. https://wiki.debian.org/rt2800usb |
| 12:44.52 | jelly | !tell Huffyrt about ralink firmware |
| 12:44.57 | jelly | !tell Huffyrt about non-free sources |
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| 12:45.28 | Huffyrt | Yes it's a ralink wireless adaptor |
| 12:46.19 | jelly | dpkg bot ought to have sent you some instructions in two private messages, check your other irc client tabs/windows |
| 12:46.19 | dpkg | jelly: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 12:46.28 | jelly | dpkg: hush |
| 12:46.28 | dpkg | it has been said that hush is http://www.apt.needs.to.hush.up.org |
| 12:47.21 | Huffyrt | I have not received any info from Dpkg bot |
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| 12:49.25 | cockroach | petn-randall: ok, back. seems i was checking on the wrong system before (no idea how that happened). "systemctl status rc.local" is in failed state. |
| 12:49.33 | jelly | !non-free sources |
| 12:49.33 | dpkg | Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «aptitude update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>. |
| 12:49.39 | jelly | !ralink firmware |
| 12:49.40 | dpkg | Firmware from userspace is required by the <rt61pci>, <rt73usb>, <rt2860sta>, <rt2870sta>, <rt2800pci> and <rt2800usb> drivers. Ask me about <non-free sources>, then install the firmware-ralink package to provide. |
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| 12:49.44 | jelly | Huffyrt: ^^ |
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| 12:50.17 | cockroach | petn-randall: complaining about "Error opening terminal: unknown". since my application is using "dialog", that could be a dialog error message... |
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| 12:50.48 | gauri | hello |
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| 12:51.13 | gauri | I am using debian 7 wheezy server, now want to upgrade through webmin |
| 12:51.19 | gauri | is there ne one can help me |
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| 12:52.25 | gauri | I am using debian 7 wheezy server, now want to upgrade through webmin |
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| 12:53.24 | petn-randall | !webmin |
| 12:53.25 | dpkg | Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at http://webmin.com/ Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see http://bugs.debian.org/343897 . The Debian package from webmin.com is of poor quality. See <free whcp> for alternatives. |
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| 12:54.26 | petn-randall | gauri: webmin is not supported or packaged in Debian, and also a bad thing to use. |
| 12:55.41 | gauri | then how should I upgrade to jessie |
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| 12:57.16 | petn-randall | gauri: As described in the release notes. |
| 12:57.24 | jelly | !jessie release notes |
| 12:57.24 | dpkg | Release notes for Debian 8 "Jessie" are at http://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/releasenotes . See also <wheezy->jessie>, <install guide>. |
| 12:57.34 | jelly | dpkg, wheezy->jessie |
| 12:57.35 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/ldcj . In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "wheezy" to "jessie". apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. See also <jessie sysvinit>. |
| 12:57.41 | gauri | so basically I should use the CLI |
| 12:57.44 | ChrisH | gauri: the same way as all others do. Read the release notes and follow them. Test on your test system first, if unsure. |
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| 12:58.18 | no_gravity | I have a directory mounted via sshfs. Anything I do with it like "ls /the/dir/" just hangs forever. umount says its busy. How can I make it work again? |
| 12:58.19 | teraflop | gauri: that's a server, isn't it? |
| 12:58.32 | gauri | yes it is a production server |
| 12:59.47 | no_gravity | oh now it unmounted. |
| 13:01.31 | jelly | no_gravity: next time, if "fusermount -u /mount/point" fails, you can kill -9 the relevant sshfs process and then redo that unmounting command |
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| 13:01.47 | JyZyXEL | https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-cryptsetup-unsupported-features would that also affect initramfs-tools generated initrd's? |
| 13:01.53 | cockroach | petn-randall: ah, it seems when i use a different tty (eg. tty7) i can start it from a service file. now the question is how i can get systemd to switch to tty7 at bootup... |
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| 13:02.32 | JyZyXEL | i don't think systemd stuff would affect initramfs? |
| 13:02.53 | petn-randall | cockroach: Probably you can disable spawning something on tty1, and just use it as before. You'd have to google the details, though. |
| 13:03.07 | cockroach | petn-randall: aye, working on that. thanks! |
| 13:03.14 | petn-randall | cockroach: Or just add 'chvt 7' to /etc/rc.local ;) |
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| 13:03.42 | cockroach | petn-randall: heh indeed, good idea :) |
| 13:03.47 | gauri | So first I should read the release note and try on test server, then get it done on Production server |
| 13:03.52 | petn-randall | cockroach: No idea if it works, though. |
| 13:04.03 | cockroach | petn-randall: only one way to find out... |
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| 13:04.11 | petn-randall | cockroach: :) |
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| 13:04.52 | no_gravity | jelly: thanks |
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| 13:07.00 | gauri | thanks |
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| 13:10.27 | cockroach | petn-randall: sweet, that seems to work |
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| 13:25.34 | wald0 | im now for the first time using a 64bit kernel for my computer (core2duo with 8gb ram) |
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| 13:25.57 | wald0 | this can be a stupid question but... why I should continue using this 64-bit kernel instead of my 32-bit-PAE one? |
| 13:26.47 | greycat | amd64 is the primary arch now, and i386 is dying out (slowly) |
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| 13:28.00 | dondelelcaro | wald0: because the kernel should be able to address all 8G without using PAE tricks and similar to do it |
| 13:28.04 | wald0 | yeah i can see that, but i still see no reason or "improvement" (except what you said about that is going to be deprecated, for sure) |
| 13:28.04 | vegardx | wald0: Turn the question around, why should you use a 32-bit kernel? |
| 13:28.53 | wald0 | vegardx: im just too much used of it, i have 32-bit compiled things installed locally, etc... aparently compiling in 64-bit doesnt give any performance improvement at all |
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| 13:29.02 | dondelelcaro | wald0: and the 64bit kernel is likely to be faster to boot. [Though this isn't a rule; it's more because ia32 sucks.] |
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| 13:29.13 | dondelelcaro | wald0: you can still run 32bit apps on a 64bit kernel |
| 13:29.16 | vegardx | wald0: Sure it does. You can for one use all your memory. |
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| 13:29.38 | wald0 | dondelelcaro: yeah i just booted with a 64bit kernel on my 32bit system... why you said 32bit sucks? |
| 13:30.10 | dondelelcaro | wald0: because the architecture doesn't have as many registers as amd64 does, and has to resort to other tricks to access more than 2G of memory. |
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| 13:30.40 | wald0 | vegardx: yeah, more than 4gb for a single process is the only good point that i have found :) |
| 13:31.07 | vegardx | And a lot cleaner memory mapping, since you can kick PAE out. |
| 13:31.10 | dondelelcaro | wald0: so for lots of things, the extra burden of larger addresses is counterbalanced by the speedup |
| 13:31.30 | wald0 | dondelelcaro: so 64bit is something like a "tagged version of cpu" to standarize binaries to be able to work with more flags? |
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| 13:31.42 | vegardx | To be honest, I doubt you'd notice the difference in real world usage. But why not just keep with the times if this is where things are moving? |
| 13:31.57 | vegardx | No, it's not. |
| 13:32.11 | dondelelcaro | wald0: it has a larger instruction set, IIRC. It's been a while since I've gone into this, though |
| 13:32.50 | wald0 | i heard in the past that things compiled in 64bit requires more memory usage, is this still true? |
| 13:32.58 | dondelelcaro | wald0: they may, yes. |
| 13:33.07 | dondelelcaro | wald0: in some cases, they may require less. |
| 13:33.30 | vegardx | And when they do it's neglieble. |
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| 13:36.58 | wald0 | me using 64bit kernel, i feel like a bleeding-edge adolescent running gentoo :) |
| 13:37.22 | vegardx | Hehe, you're in the future! |
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| 13:37.36 | vegardx | Where will you go next? Linux 4.x? |
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| 13:38.04 | wald0 | next: learn about EFI and systemd, but this can wait 5 more years :) |
| 13:38.33 | vegardx | In five years you'll only run systemd. |
| 13:38.38 | jelly | wald0: depends on specific workload. I've had perl scripts use twice the RAM on 64bit, and I've had process use the same amount. |
| 13:38.51 | wald0 | vegardx: and that can be a good reason of a switch lol |
| 13:38.57 | wald0 | for the* |
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| 13:40.33 | jelly | and then there's x32 which uses all the registers and most new instruction set extensions, but keeps 32bit pointers thus supposedly lower memory usage |
| 13:40.37 | wald0 | jelly: so in short, using a 64bit system my ram can be filled between the same and the double of space, meh, i dont see this to be an advantage :/ |
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| 13:41.11 | jelly | wald0: that's the wrong thing to take out of my comment. Test with actual workload. |
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| 13:41.46 | wald0 | jelly: well, i got it |
| 13:42.00 | wald0 | just that i dont see it "enough" worth to use 64bit against 32 |
| 13:42.15 | jelly | wald0: for a mixed workstation workload (browsers, ssh, media player) you'll probably not see significant difference in either speed or resource usage |
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| 13:42.43 | jelly | wald0: amd64 being the majority architecture in debian, it's more tested than i386 |
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| 13:42.55 | wald0 | this is now a good reason |
| 13:43.05 | wald0 | poor old machines... |
| 13:43.23 | wald0 | i readed some complains in the mailing list about that jessie requires more ram than wheezy |
| 13:43.33 | jelly | yes your pre-2004 P4 system or older, or pre-2010 atom might not be able to run amd64 |
| 13:44.35 | jelly | dunno about that. for my workstations most RAM gets used by browsers |
| 13:44.53 | jelly | that has not changed between wheezy and jessie |
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| 13:45.52 | wald0 | this world needs a new cpu arch... being able to go further 5Ghz without heating problems |
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| 13:46.43 | wald0 | yeah, those browsers things really sucks, and we are everytime moving more to a "cloud" monopolized world |
| 13:46.54 | karlpinc | I just retired an old pentium (an original) with 256M of ram. It just wasn't worth the time spent waiting for it to go through the upgrade process. Must faster with a newer box. |
| 13:47.52 | dondelelcaro | karlpinc: you probably spent more on your power bill in the past year than the machine was worth |
| 13:47.57 | vegardx | wald0: Clock speeds are becoming more and more irrelevant, just look at the new 8-core atom-processors. They are rocking hard, with almost no heat. |
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| 13:48.21 | karlpinc | dondelelcaro: Way more. |
| 13:48.35 | karlpinc | dondelelcaro: But then there's the time it took to replace it. |
| 13:48.43 | dondelelcaro | karlpinc: heh. yeah; I retired one of those a while ago and replaced it with openwrt. |
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| 13:49.16 | vegardx | dondelelcaro: Probably saves the cost of new hardware in power savings. :p |
| 13:50.34 | karlpinc | dondelelcaro: Ever considered using debian instead of openwrt? I'm using openwrt, but always wanted to unifiy things. |
| 13:51.35 | karlpinc | dondelelcaro: I was waiting for emdebian to come along. Instead it died. I suppose it's not a big deal to cross compile something, but then again the whole arm boot process is a little spooky. |
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| 13:51.55 | dondelelcaro | karlpinc: yeah, openwrt does a lot of good things, though... so maybe someday, but not yet |
| 13:52.09 | rozie | karlpinc: consider ARM machine. I have router on my Dockstar since a few years and I'm happy with it |
| 13:52.12 | wald0 | vegardx: irrelevant why? it is the biggest and most important point of the speed of a computer... in the past they increased very fast, i switched from a 120 Mhz pentium to a 1400 Mhz K7 from one year to other |
| 13:52.17 | wald0 | this was a 14x times faster |
| 13:52.29 | karlpinc | wald0: Physics got in the way. |
| 13:52.30 | vegardx | wald0: Because clock speed is not the only factor in speed. |
| 13:52.30 | wald0 | now there's not Mhz improving at all, we are stuck at 4-5 Ghz |
| 13:52.54 | rozie | and any Atom will be ~20-30W. rpi with 2,5" HDD is around 7W (stressed disk and CPU) |
| 13:52.59 | dondelelcaro | karlpinc: Debian seems to have taken over the middle level embedded market, but we haven't yet penetrated to the smaller side of the middle. |
| 13:53.08 | vegardx | The new Atom C2750 run at a TDP of 20W. That is insane. |
| 13:53.09 | wald0 | well, 4 years ago we already had i7's with 6 cores |
| 13:53.16 | wald0 | and now we still having the same |
| 13:53.47 | wald0 | the moore law's is not correct anymore (doubling the power each year or something like that?) |
| 13:54.03 | vegardx | Moores law has never been correct, we've always been one step a head. |
| 13:54.03 | jelly | vegardx: too much, eh? |
| 13:54.11 | karlpinc | wald0: No, not in clock speed. Only in total compute power. |
| 13:54.22 | vegardx | jelly: Not at all, you can passivly cool 8 cores at 2Ghz. That is pretty insane. |
| 13:54.36 | dondelelcaro | wald0: moore's law has to do transistors on a chip and the cost of fab plants, both of which have held pretty close |
| 13:54.48 | jelly | vegardx: that sounds like a phone |
| 13:55.29 | vegardx | A little more umph in a Atom C2750 than you'd need in a phone. Phones uses a lot less power than that. |
| 13:55.50 | wald0 | by some reason the moores law smells me to planned obsolescence prediction statistics |
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| 13:56.09 | vegardx | Or just a prediction? |
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| 13:57.57 | vegardx | Higher transistor density yields lower power consumption per cycle. When that equals to or is more than the cost of new hardware you change it. |
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| 13:59.40 | Night-Shade | the real challenges for modern computing is work done per watt of power |
| 13:59.55 | anddam | per dollar |
| 14:00.08 | Night-Shade | and I/O bandwidth to and from CPU / RAM / Disk / Network |
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| 14:00.24 | anddam | also watt implies power |
| 14:00.35 | Night-Shade | fair point |
| 14:00.40 | anddam | you wouldn't say "miles per hour of time" |
| 14:00.44 | WangDang_1 | Ars technica talks to Gordon Moore about his 1965 prediction http://tinyurl.com/lv6g7hc |
| 14:01.08 | anddam | I remember MIPS/W/$ as processors metric for comparison |
| 14:01.41 | wald0 | what about how to make mathematical calculations run faster? this was always reached by increasing cpu mhz, i mean, all the applications are faster by having more mhz |
| 14:01.59 | Night-Shade | depends what data the calcs are on |
| 14:02.06 | anddam | wald0: depending on the problems nature one could go parallelizing |
| 14:02.14 | anddam | that's usually cheaper |
| 14:02.20 | anddam | problem's |
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| 14:02.48 | wald0 | i want to compile a full linux kernel in less than 10 seconds :) but saying that is like "you are crazy, thats impossible, will not happen in 100 years" |
| 14:02.56 | Night-Shade | and on the size of the working set, PB/TB/GB/MB/B of data |
| 14:03.17 | anddam | wald0: I think it's unlikely you want to compile that in 10 seconds |
| 14:03.30 | anddam | possibly you want a compiled kernel in 10 seconds |
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| 14:04.14 | anddam | that could be obtained by precompiling it, then you and anyone else who needs it could get it in 10 seconds |
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| 14:04.22 | wald0 | if multi-core is the future, why we still having only 6 or 8 cores? instead of go to 50, then 200, then 1000, etc? apps can be then developped in a different way to be blazing fast |
| 14:04.33 | anddam | wald0: I think multicore is the present |
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| 14:04.39 | Night-Shade | that's what a GPU is |
| 14:04.46 | Tilgaht | /buffer 62 |
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| 14:04.53 | Tilgaht | well... sorry |
| 14:05.16 | vegardx | wald0: Heat, memory channels, doing everything in parallel is not always the best option: See gaming. |
| 14:05.31 | anddam | altho0 hundreds of cores (shaders?) in modern GPUs are not of the same level of a CPU core |
| 14:05.32 | Night-Shade | or one of these fancy Intel Phi mutli processor cards |
| 14:05.40 | wald0 | anddam: you consider 8 cores a "multicore"? i think that we had old pentium mobo's ready to use 2 cpu's already |
| 14:06.00 | vegardx | Night-Shade: I'm so mad at my self for not getting one when Intel were selling them at 10% of retail cost. |
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| 14:06.08 | vegardx | Just for testing it out. |
| 14:06.16 | anddam | wald0: yes I consider it multicore, don't you? |
| 14:06.25 | vegardx | wald0: socket and cores are not the same. |
| 14:06.27 | karlpinc | Perhaps #debian-offtopic? |
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| 14:06.34 | anddam | right |
| 14:06.36 | vegardx | The first has dedicated memory channels, etc. The latter shares it all. |
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| 14:06.55 | anddam | is there a tool for checking the status of GPT on my disk? |
| 14:06.59 | Night-Shade | the Intel Phi is about 60 Pentiums strapped together |
| 14:07.17 | karlpinc | anddam: What do you mean "status"? |
| 14:07.17 | anddam | s/status/sanity/ |
| 14:07.42 | karlpinc | anddam: parted has a "check" option to check alignment. |
| 14:07.42 | anddam | karlpinc: I had some kmes error about checking "something GPT heads think it's something" |
| 14:07.44 | wald0 | anddam: not really, 8 sounds more like a hacky system that anybody could have built iself than a real "paralel processing concept" |
| 14:08.04 | anddam | karlpinc: after several reboot to "fix" the ehci issue I don't have that GPT error anymore |
| 14:08.18 | anddam | karlpinc: so I'd like a tool to check the table and tell me "allright dude" |
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| 14:08.31 | anddam | karlpinc: yes, alignment rings a bell |
| 14:08.57 | Night-Shade | anddam: see if the tool gdisk reports anything |
| 14:09.01 | anddam | all started after installing a fedora in multiboot, that overrode debian's grub install |
| 14:09.09 | Night-Shade | use v to verify the GPT |
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| 14:10.19 | anddam | btw shoulw I install grub on the device or partition superblock? |
| 14:10.48 | wald0 | just reading about intel Phi, THIS is what i consider multi-threadig (60 cores is now a number, the low 1,1 Ghz value is then no relevant in this different concept) |
| 14:10.48 | anddam | does the term "superblock" still applies to GPT partitions? (as opposed to MBR ones) |
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| 14:11.21 | ksk | anddam: istn superblock more a filesystem thingy? |
| 14:11.23 | vegardx | wald0: But they only work for very specific work loads. |
| 14:11.26 | Night-Shade | wald0: the Phi is a very interesting piece of kit, don't just look at the CPU count look at the bus design |
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| 14:11.30 | ksk | I would think the anwser to your qestion is yes |
| 14:11.31 | anddam | karlpinc: align-check right? |
| 14:11.49 | anddam | ksk: I thougt it was the first block of a partition, even before the fs |
| 14:12.19 | anddam | Night-Shade: gdisk 'v' command says "no problems found" |
| 14:12.34 | wald0 | 61 cores, 244 threads, 1,2 teraflops... sounds like a funny toy |
| 14:12.47 | anddam | ksk: to "superblock" term in GPT, right? |
| 14:12.57 | Night-Shade | anddam: sounds good, not a guarantee all is well but a good sign |
| 14:13.04 | anddam | I'm waiting for those AMD multicore ARM thingy |
| 14:13.06 | wald0 | vegardx: yeah, and thats a good thing, new concept, evolution (probably), different way to do things |
| 14:13.10 | vegardx | Intel sold them for a almost nothing half a year ago, wald0. They've been a flop, basically. |
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| 14:13.51 | Night-Shade | vegardx: as you say they have a very narrow set of workloads they work for |
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| 14:14.56 | wald0 | vegardx: first time that i read about it... in fact im searching fora new computer (workstation), not decided yet if is more worth i7 or Xeon |
| 14:15.01 | anddam | how can I check where is grub currently installed? |
| 14:15.07 | karlpinc | anddam: Right. |
| 14:15.24 | anddam | karlpinc: but I see that's for optimum alignment |
| 14:15.31 | vegardx | wald0: Read up on instruction sets. They are basically the same. |
| 14:15.33 | anddam | anyway all partitions are both min and opt aligne |
| 14:15.35 | vegardx | (hint: you don't need i7) |
| 14:15.50 | karlpinc | vegardx, wald0: You should take it to #debian-offtopic. |
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| 14:16.02 | Kenjin | hello |
| 14:16.08 | vegardx | karlpinc: I'll take it home, but yes. :) |
| 14:16.29 | anddam | from firmware boot menu I see the options are UEFI:SATA:PORT 0:debian :PART 0: OS Bootloader, that partition 0 makes me think it's either the device itself or the first EFI Boot partition |
| 14:16.33 | wald0 | vegardx: yeah, somebody told me that i7 is more expensive for what Xeon can do... not sure which one is really cheaper for a decent machine |
| 14:16.38 | Night-Shade | wald0: main difference is number of memory channels |
| 14:16.42 | wald0 | karlpinc: yeah ok, sorry |
| 14:16.42 | anddam | that's the 512 MB I've been read to leave there |
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| 14:16.50 | karlpinc | anddam: Your drive could still be lying to you about what it's real alignment is, possibly. Some are off-by-one to support MS windows. |
| 14:17.04 | anddam | sneaky windows⦠|
| 14:18.10 | anddam | seems I don't have anymore both USB and x2dhome kmesg errors lines at boot, the latter were due to systemd checking LVM2 volumes |
| 14:18.16 | wald0 | Night-Shade: so xeon has more memory channels? is this pretty noticeable in responsive/speedup (workstation) system ? |
| 14:18.17 | anddam | nor the GPT warnings |
| 14:18.21 | karlpinc | anddam: If it reports 4K sectors then your fine. |
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| 14:18.30 | wald0 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.41 | wald0 | ok i sounds like 64bit vs 32bit lol |
| 14:18.42 | anddam | karlpinc: I only got "aligned" answers, where should I see 4k sectors? |
| 14:18.49 | anddam | karlpinc: at "print"'s output? |
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| 14:19.25 | anddam | btw the "fix" for my "usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110" errors was to shutdown the computer and unplug it for a couple minutes |
| 14:19.25 | petn-randall | wald0: MBR has a lot of limitations that GPT alleviates. |
| 14:19.33 | anddam | and it actually worked, I hate these kind of things |
| 14:19.43 | karlpinc | anddam: I think you've got to look at the smart output using smartctl. In the smartmontools package. |
| 14:19.48 | anddam | kinds* |
| 14:20.00 | anddam | karlpinc: you think an HDD issue? |
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| 14:20.20 | karlpinc | anddam: It's the HDD that lies about it's real sector size and alignment. |
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| 14:23.55 | wald0 | petn-randall: yeah but they are really needed for normal computers? |
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| 14:26.24 | anddam | karlpinc: but in two reboots now I haven't seen any more mention of that in dmesg |
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| 14:26.47 | tuxcrafter | https://packages.debian.org/stretch/roundcube < does someone know why roundcube isnt in stable anymore? |
| 14:26.49 | anddam | I can only think the usb issue was messing up something else (on the bus?) |
| 14:27.05 | sgk | hi any one using GNU/HURD? |
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| 14:27.30 | abrotman | sgk: there's a hurd channel on irc.oftc.net |
| 14:27.55 | sgk | abrotman: Thanks |
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| 14:29.28 | anddam | does the debian installer disk setup step create new partitions with "msftdata" flag? |
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| 14:29.47 | anddam | I see a 50GB msftdata but I cannot imagine what's that for, I think I reserved some space at install |
| 14:29.51 | neoice | according to https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2015-3456, qemu-kvm is patched but I can't find 1.1.2+dfsg-6+deb7u7 for download yet... |
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| 14:31.22 | anddam | is there a tool for guessing fs on a partition? |
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| 14:32.10 | anddam | I left to mount to find an appropriate fs type but it choked on the msftdata partition, I figure it'to my recall |
| 14:32.31 | anddam | I figure it's unformatted, that goes along with my recall of leaving unformatted space |
| 14:32.38 | anddam | (premature enter key hit) |
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| 14:32.53 | shay_shay | yes |
| 14:33.06 | petn-randall | wald0: If you want to address larger than than 2 TB, yes. If you want to dualboot two OSes without them fighting over the boot sector, yes. If you want more than 4 partition without funny hacks, yes. |
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| 14:34.04 | ChrisH | anddam: blkid |
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| 14:34.37 | petn-randall | wald0: Oh, and ofcourse GPT has a backup, and everything is protected via CRC. I'd say that's pretty "normal" these days. |
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| 14:35.19 | karlpinc | tuxcrafter: Check bugs.debian.org. |
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| 14:35.27 | wald0 | somebody running a 32-bit system can show me the output of uname -m ? |
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| 14:36.06 | karlpinc | anddam: Try file -s |
| 14:36.10 | petn-randall | wald0: Google is broken on your end? |
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| 14:36.38 | wald0 | petn-randall: yeah the 2TB is an important point, but dualboot is not simply (good) managed by grub? |
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| 14:36.54 | moldy | hi |
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| 14:37.42 | anddam | ChrisH: blkid shows several info on the device sda, on sda2 an ext4 and sda3, PV for the running debian system |
| 14:37.57 | anddam | on the sda4 that I was interested in it says nothing, no output line at all |
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| 14:38.07 | karlpinc | moldy: If you've a question just ask. |
| 14:38.33 | moldy | karlpinc: sure ;) |
| 14:38.47 | karlpinc | anddam: try: file -s /dev/sda4 |
| 14:38.52 | petn-randall | wald0: If you for example install Linux then Windows on MBR, Windows will overwrite your boot sector, you won't be able to boot Linux until you fix it by hand. GPT (together with UEFI) get rid of that problem. |
| 14:39.04 | anddam | karlpinc: just done, I was checking man page first to figure what it was |
| 14:39.05 | wald0 | i see |
| 14:39.18 | anddam | karlpinc: as caution, I know I'm on #debian but still |
| 14:39.26 | karlpinc | anddam: Allways a good idea to know what you're doing! :-) |
| 14:39.27 | anddam | I just get /dev/sda4: data |
| 14:39.35 | anddam | ok I'm going with reserved space |
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| 14:39.43 | anddam | if it were data I wouldn't know how to access it anyway |
| 14:39.51 | wald0 | mmh, can somebody show me the result of "uname -m" for a 32-bit system? (nothing found specificallly in google) |
| 14:39.57 | karlpinc | anddam: How about: parted /dev/sda print |
| 14:40.05 | anddam | does UEFI have the concept of "active" partition as MBR did? |
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| 14:40.17 | anddam | or does it just for a "EFI Boot Partition" type/flag? |
| 14:40.26 | wald0 | in short i dont know if it should show x86, i686, ia32, i386... too much names for the same thing! :/ |
| 14:40.27 | anddam | I see mine is mounted at /boot/efi on debian |
| 14:40.32 | karlpinc | anddam: It's not uefi that's of interest, it's gpt. |
| 14:40.57 | anddam | karlpinc: that's as a general question since I'm going to reinstall grub |
| 14:41.08 | anddam | so I wonder what partition should I be targeting |
| 14:41.17 | anddam | also I wonder how the firmware decide where to look |
| 14:41.20 | anddam | decides* |
| 14:41.36 | karlpinc | petn-randall: How does gpt get around overwriting the mbr? Because uefi wll boot from someplace besides the mbr? |
| 14:42.15 | anddam | karlpinc: the parted print is what I've been using so far to check the partitions and from where I got the "msftdata" word |
| 14:42.26 | wald0 | i*86 aparently, mmhh |
| 14:42.27 | anddam | karlpinc:are you interested in the full output? |
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| 14:42.48 | karlpinc | anddam: I don't have time to look. But maybe somebody else will. |
| 14:43.13 | anddam | karlpinc: but it's pretty standard, what would it tell? |
| 14:43.36 | anddam | karlpinc: I mean now I don't have the dmesg warning lines about GPT anymore, and I cannot reproduce that |
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| 14:47.42 | moldy | a system crashed during dist-upgrade from wheezy to jessie. now i am faced with this: http://dpaste.com/20WW52F apt-get -f install just results in the same error. how do i recover from this? |
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| 14:48.25 | petn-randall | karlpinc: With UEFI+GPT you have a EFI system partition, which is a FAT partition where each OS just drops files in their own directory. And the you have a boot selection menu over all OSes. |
| 14:48.31 | karlpinc | anddam: Really, I don't think you need to worry. But you can test the performance and see if it's wonky. Use a benchmarking tool to write a bunch of randomlyl located blocks. You may need to use dd to make a large file and mount it loopback. You should get the performance close to what you expect. If instead your alignment is off the drive will have to read 2 blocks and write 2 blocks for what should be a single write operation. |
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| 14:48.57 | karlpinc | anddam: I've used bonnie++ in the past, but I forget the details. |
| 14:49.34 | anddam | I see |
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| 14:50.12 | anddam | karlpinc: I don't have any (noticeable) performance issue tho', just the kmesg lines that I don't see anymore |
| 14:50.15 | anddam | so I'm good with that |
| 14:50.27 | karlpinc | petn-randall: Nice! That way I can pay MS for the fat patent no matter what! ;-) |
| 14:50.41 | anddam | I know bonnie++ also I used hdparm in past for testing drive |
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| 14:52.08 | anddam | petn-randall: I just went back as I figured you were already saying what I was asking |
| 14:52.36 | anddam | petn-randall: can UEFI work with MBR as well? the UEFI+GPT symbol suggests so |
| 14:52.38 | karlpinc | I just put a lvm pv into a LUKS container. I didn't use an offset so wonder if luks will preserve my 4K alignment. I trusted it and whet ahead, but now and wondering if I should look further into the luks docs. |
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| 14:53.06 | anddam | petn-randall: also from what you wrote I think UEFI+GPT doesn't have the concept of active partition anymore, is that right? |
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| 14:54.01 | anddam | petn-randall: but when I installed fedora on this system that already had debian I saw the boot menu change at reboot, the debian has a background picture and is full screen, this one was "windows" and just text on black |
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| 14:55.10 | teraflop | I found this link quite interesting https://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01/25/uefi-boot-how-does-that-actually-work-then/ |
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| 14:56.18 | anddam | petn-randall: not that's inherently bad, I understand that's just a matter of grub config but I wonder how the firmware switched from one to the other |
| 14:56.38 | anddam | petn-randall: from what you wrote I figure each os should have put in the EFI boot partition its own data |
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| 14:57.46 | karlpinc | Humm. No worries with LUKS 4K alignment. See section 2.18 of https://gitlab.com/cryptsetup/cryptsetup/wikis/FrequentlyAskedQuestions |
| 14:57.46 | themill | moldy: gcc-4.7 isn't in jessie at all, so you can remove it and the things that depend on it. Have you tried asking apt to do the dist-upgrade? tried aptitude instead? |
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| 14:58.38 | moldy | themill: apt-get dist-upgrade shows that error |
| 14:58.58 | moldy | themill: aptitude seems to offer a solution, at least. thanks! |
| 14:59.29 | themill | moldy: its solution might look a lot like "uninstall half the system" be careful with what it is planning |
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| 15:00.05 | moldy | themill: i am fine with that, i can just install missing stuff again afterwards. thanks! |
| 15:00.16 | petn-randall | anddam: If you have UEFI, yes. I think via UEFI calls you can change the boot order, I think that's what happened. |
| 15:00.53 | karlpinc | anddam: It all depends on how grub installs. When I made a gpt partition recently I made a special partition and flagged it (I forget the flag) just for grub. Then installing grub put stuff in there. But in general with grub it boots a bit, then goes into the FS to find it's menu. So it's probably using the fedora menu instead of the debian menu. You can use "grub-install" and give it your hd to re-install the debian menu. You may |
| 15:00.53 | karlpinc | need to run update-grub to re-detect everything so your menu includes the more recently installed os-s. I'd leave it alone, unless you care. |
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| 15:02.29 | karlpinc | anddam: Note that I know nothing about uefi, which is what you're using. |
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| 15:06.16 | teraflop | anddam: feel free to take a look at the link I posted above i think it's worth reading it |
| 15:07.43 | shay_shay | also read rodsbooks.com :) |
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| 15:07.54 | shay_shay | that's the author of gdisk |
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| 15:12.06 | yei | hi |
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| 15:12.37 | thebrush | hi, I'm try a mount cifs on smb share on win7 but get always: "unable to allocate memory" |
| 15:13.15 | manohar_ | hello every one |
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| 15:13.26 | sydney_untangle | Hi Hi Hi. :P |
| 15:13.59 | manohar_ | i m getting error in compiling a package. any one help me? |
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| 15:16.00 | shay_shay | !tell manohar_ about ask to ask |
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| 15:17.33 | shay_shay | !tell manohar_ about poll |
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| 15:22.42 | bazhang | manohar_, for ubuntu |
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| 15:23.03 | bazhang | why post in debian channel manohar_ |
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| 15:26.26 | shay_shay | bazhang: hes pming you? I guess the "poll" factoid was correct in saying its usually a prelude to isolating one helper and barraging them with /msg |
| 15:27.02 | bazhang | shay_shay, and cross posting in #ubuntu as well |
| 15:27.27 | shay_shay | ah |
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| 15:27.49 | bazhang | ,v suricata |
| 15:27.50 | judd | Package: suricata on amd64 -- squeeze: 1.0.1-1squeeze1; wheezy: 1.2.1-2; wheezy-backports: 2.0.4-1~bpo70+1; jessie: 2.0.7-2; sid: 2.0.8-1; stretch: 2.0.8-1 |
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| 15:28.38 | shay_shay | !tell bazhang about based on debian |
| 15:28.41 | shay_shay | :P |
| 15:29.04 | bazhang | well aware |
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| 15:29.21 | shay_shay | oh sorry |
| 15:29.22 | bazhang | even the raspbian people try to sneak one through here |
| 15:29.24 | shay_shay | haha |
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| 15:29.49 | shay_shay | I got your nick mixed up with manohar_'s |
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| 15:30.08 | shay_shay | I haven't eaten breakfast yet ... |
| 15:30.16 | bazhang | manohar_, never did say what version of debian he was on, nore why he did not just install from repos |
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| 15:39.19 | anddam | teraflop: reading now |
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| 15:41.21 | anddam | teraflop: I like how it starts already |
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| 15:46.09 | cityLights | ~seen orzo |
| 15:46.09 | apt | orzo is currently on #debian, last said: 'i found a package fatsort for doing this for FAT filesystem, but i have ext4'. |
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| 15:56.30 | [RO]Daniel | hi all, how can i find out what is wrong? i left the computer overnight on repeat on vlc and when i woke up the computer was frozen |
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| 16:00.39 | dondelelcaro | [RO]Daniel: kind of hard to figure out without a serial console providing output and may not be useful even then |
| 16:01.02 | [RO]Daniel | :( then what should i do? |
| 16:01.14 | dondelelcaro | [RO]Daniel: but in general, I would suspect hardware issues, video card driver bugs, or similar. |
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| 16:01.56 | dondelelcaro | [RO]Daniel: if you can get it to reproduce reliably, use a serial console or similar to get output from the kernel when it fails. Are you sure that it's frozen? |
| 16:02.00 | jmd | Is there a way to get debian to boot using dmd ? |
| 16:02.10 | [RO]Daniel | i have intel3000 HD video, on a laptop |
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| 16:03.16 | dondelelcaro | hrm; the intel drivers are usually pretty stable. Since it's a laptop, though, I'd suspect unstability under load with heat being a contributing factor... lots of laptops do not perform well under load |
| 16:03.17 | [RO]Daniel | well, the image was frozen (fullscreen) from the movie, i could move the mouse, but after i pushed a few buttons like alt-tab and such eventually got frozen completely |
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| 16:03.36 | dondelelcaro | if you can move the mouse, the machine was not frozen |
| 16:03.47 | teraflop | [RO]Daniel: who knows, what did you put in a loop, a local video, a remote one? |
| 16:03.56 | [RO]Daniel | it's possible to be a vlc memory leak or something? |
| 16:04.04 | dondelelcaro | get yourself to a console (ctrl-alt-f1) and then try killing vlc or similar |
| 16:04.04 | teraflop | can you reach the lap by ssh? |
| 16:04.09 | dondelelcaro | or use ssh |
| 16:04.09 | [RO]Daniel | i put a few episodes from local hdd |
| 16:04.10 | greycat | memory leaks do not cause interface lockups |
| 16:04.42 | [RO]Daniel | i tried also ctrl-alt-f1 and nothing happend |
| 16:04.49 | [RO]Daniel | alt tab |
| 16:04.56 | [RO]Daniel | escape, doubleclick image, nothing |
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| 16:05.33 | [RO]Daniel | then i close the lid, and it was no reaction, no suspend no nothing, i open again and it was the same, no lock |
| 16:05.39 | teraflop | if youre running a stream that is put in /tmp and it get full, weird things could happen |
| 16:06.05 | [RO]Daniel | it was no stream, it was a few movies from local hdd |
| 16:06.24 | anddam | I see, in UEFI+GPT installing grub in "/dev/sda2" doesn't make sense anymore |
| 16:06.24 | teraflop | anyway maybe just vlc's fault |
| 16:06.38 | greycat | Did it ever? |
| 16:06.43 | anddam | where "/dev/sda2" is a supeblock |
| 16:06.45 | teraflop | anddam: righ |
| 16:06.45 | anddam | greycat: me? |
| 16:06.58 | greycat | Yes, you. Did it ever make sense to install grub on a partition instead of a DISDK? |
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| 16:07.09 | anddam | greycat: I recall so |
| 16:07.19 | teraflop | greycat: it has sense for me |
| 16:07.26 | anddam | greycat: you installed bootloader in a superblock and then set that partition as "active" in MBR |
| 16:07.51 | anddam | in fact I see /boot/efi has bot my debian and fedora section |
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| 16:08.10 | anddam | I'll read efibootmgr(8) after finishing that doc |
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| 16:09.14 | [RO]Daniel | finally after i hard reset it, when booting it was "saying" something like journaling recovery |
| 16:09.26 | greycat | That's normal after a crash. |
| 16:09.31 | teraflop | anddam: and then you can test gummiboot from debian repos ... |
| 16:09.52 | anddam | I wonder how'd firmware handle two EFP partitions |
| 16:10.04 | anddam | teraflop: I'll check that |
| 16:10.04 | shay_shay | [RO]Daniel next time try raising elephants |
| 16:10.10 | anddam | !gummiboot |
| 16:10.36 | teraflop | anddam: you dont neeed two ESP partitions |
| 16:10.59 | shay_shay | !reisub |
| 16:10.59 | dpkg | somebody said reisub was Raw sigtErm sigkIll Sync remoUnt reBoot, a magic <sysrq> keys sequence to reboot properly if your machine is half locked. |
| 16:11.01 | [RO]Daniel | thing is, i had ubuntu 14.04 and it was no problem, after i installed ubuntu 14.04.2 and that one was freezeing even in normal day to day task beside vlc overnight |
| 16:11.12 | greycat | All of your operating systems can share the one EFI partition. |
| 16:11.22 | anddam | teraflop: ofc I don't, I'm wondering how'd the firmware handle that since UEFI is expecting to find a single EFP partition |
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| 16:11.33 | [RO]Daniel | now i see debian is the same but it has different vers of vlc so...not sure what to do |
| 16:11.39 | teraflop | anddam: oh i see |
| 16:11.49 | anddam | teraflop: I'm halwfay that page, it's actually pretty much how I figured it worked, very rational design insofar |
| 16:12.08 | greycat | [RO]Daniel: It's probably NOT the application software that's the issue. It'll be hardware or kernel driver. |
| 16:12.10 | teraflop | anddam: i love that document |
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| 16:13.17 | teraflop | anddam: gummiboot is the future systemd bootloader, http://mediagoblin.teraflops.info/u/teraflops/m/gummi-debian/ |
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| 16:13.48 | anddam | in place of grub |
| 16:14.06 | anddam | how's the bootloader specifically tied to systemd? |
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| 16:14.12 | bstarek | does anybody know where i can find information about nfs protocol? thanks |
| 16:14.15 | [RO]Daniel | :/ |
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| 16:14.58 | greycat | The kernel runs systemd as the initial process (init). |
| 16:15.12 | greycat | The boot loader tells the kernel to do this, maybe. |
| 16:15.16 | teraflop | anddam: they are mutually exclusive, as with any other bootloader |
| 16:15.22 | shay_shay | gummiboot is for passing command line arguments to linux for uefi's which dont have that capability built in. I just put the command line arguments in my uefi directly |
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| 16:16.12 | anddam | greycat: that's what I knew |
| 16:16.27 | shay_shay | https://wiki.debian.org/EFIStub |
| 16:16.31 | anddam | I was referring to the "future systemd bootloader" part |
| 16:16.34 | teraflop | shay_shay: well gummiboot is a bootloader I do know know that lack of capabilities part means |
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| 16:17.24 | anddam | teraflop: btw what's the weechat notification in the video at the previous link? |
| 16:17.31 | shay_shay | teraflop: gummiboot is just a text based program, not a bootloader, it just passes arguments to linux efi stub |
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| 16:17.42 | teraflop | anddam: sorry let me see i dont remember |
| 16:17.48 | shay_shay | teraflop: most uefi implementations can boot linux directly and pass all the arguments |
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| 16:18.30 | teraflop | shay_shay: true |
| 16:18.50 | teraflop | anddam: it's LibNotifyUrgencyHook from xmonad |
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| 16:20.38 | teraflop | anddam: it pulls on libnotify, it works not only for weechat |
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| 16:21.22 | shay_shay | teraflop: you can have more than one entry for each kernel in your uefi, i wrote a script which automtically updates it, giving the user a normal boot and a recovery console for the latest kernel and the pervious kernel (so four entries total): https://gist.github.com/shawnbon206/52e7bdf717a487710940 ... I plan on rewriting it its pretty poorly writte, but it works |
| 16:21.51 | shay_shay | it relys on legacy symlinks |
| 16:21.53 | teraflop | shay_shay: that looks nice |
| 16:21.57 | anddam | shay_shay: so entries at UEFI level |
| 16:22.02 | shay_shay | yes |
| 16:22.06 | anddam | rather than at bootloader's |
| 16:22.33 | shay_shay | yes so I just add the uefi entries by hand and point them at the symlinks |
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| 16:23.33 | anddam | I wonder where the hell did the window manager come from https://gist.github.com/anddam/9cee37a57fd59fd2c2c3 |
| 16:23.42 | teraflop | shay_shay: also i noticed on latest systemd versions you can do systemctl reboot --firmware (uefi) directly, not tried in a debian |
| 16:23.45 | anddam | also it comes before fedora's? |
| 16:24.06 | anddam | this is an Intel NUC I bought 15 days ago, unpacked and installed debian |
| 16:24.18 | anddam | never seen any windows' install |
| 16:24.22 | shay_shay | anddam: might have come with your computer, you can delete it |
| 16:24.33 | shay_shay | or reorder it to last |
| 16:24.33 | anddam | I sure will |
| 16:25.04 | anddam | btw is the "BCDOBJECT" intended as BCD the encoding? |
| 16:25.25 | anddam | and, silly question, but UUIDs are safe to show right? |
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| 16:25.45 | anddam | nothing with MAC or Intel ID chip encoded in those |
| 16:26.11 | anddam | (not in this particular case, in general) |
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| 16:27.52 | Twinkletoes | what do I do to ensure that whichever user writes to a partifcular directory, that files always gets the group ownership that the dir has? |
| 16:28.22 | Twinkletoes | ah, setgid - I fogrot |
| 16:28.46 | anddam | back in topic when I installed fedora it installed its own bootmanager, then in debian I ran update-grub that probed the disk to find all OSes and it added fedora entries to debian's boot manager |
| 16:28.47 | greycat | Yes. chmod g+s |
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| 16:29.06 | anddam | that's redundant since UEFI can boot the fedora boot manager straight away, right? |
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| 16:30.06 | anddam | I can see either having a single boot manager loading grub with all the systems in grub.cfg or having several boot manager entries in UEFI, is that a sane approach? |
| 16:30.08 | teraflop | anddam: yes, youre right |
| 16:30.20 | anddam | this is actually making sense |
| 16:30.48 | anddam | I love it when a plan comes togheter |
| 16:30.55 | anddam | lights a cigar |
| 16:30.58 | teraflop | heh |
| 16:31.15 | anddam | together, even |
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| 16:33.50 | anddam | the name of Boot0006 is that long "SATA : PORT 0 : Hitachi HTS545032B9A302 : PART 0 : Boot Drive" and BIOS() is the actual executable (or function it seems) |
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| 16:39.02 | anddam | teraflop: apropos the two ESP partitions, \EFI\BOOT\BOOTx64.EFI is searched in the order in which the partitions are defined |
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| 16:40.43 | [RO]Daniel | how can i try a different version of driver? |
| 16:40.59 | [RO]Daniel | maybe a newer one |
| 16:41.08 | teraflop | anddam: well, in my case i can change that order in the EFI itself |
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| 16:41.44 | anddam | you mean usign efibootmgr or interactively at boot? |
| 16:41.50 | anddam | I can see myself doing both |
| 16:41.57 | anddam | using, also |
| 16:42.01 | teraflop | anddam: at the EFI fw menu itself |
| 16:42.31 | anddam | sure, I got a "press F10 for boot menu" that I presume is reading that 6 seconds timeout in my gist |
| 16:42.38 | teraflop | anddam: I bet you can change from grub aswell |
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| 16:42.46 | anddam | bw isn't my Boot0004 odd with the Vendor() line and nothing more? |
| 16:42.55 | anddam | teraflop: ok but grub comes after, right? |
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| 16:43.10 | teraflop | anddam: nope, i mean persistent from the FW menu on my computer |
| 16:43.14 | anddam | i.e. I grub is that grubx64.efi |
| 16:43.25 | teraflop | anddam: ah yes, ofc |
| 16:43.37 | anddam | teraflop: so it allows you to edit nvram settings, right? |
| 16:43.56 | teraflop | anddam: yep or whatever it is called |
| 16:44.02 | anddam | I think I'm starting to grasp this, I have to figure that Vendor() thing and I'm done |
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| 16:46.08 | m3tti | hi there i'm using a lenove thinkpad x61 with debian jessie. My setup consits of lightdm and openbox. Somehow my lightdm session does not startup clearly. The deamon is started which i can verify via systemctl status lightdm but i've to switch my tty some times to get lightdm displaied correctly my graphicscard is intel i915 i guess. What can i do to fix that problem? |
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| 16:48.31 | teraflop | oh I meant UEFI not efi (osx flashback) |
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| 16:55.01 | shay_shay | is partial to coreboot now |
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| 16:55.18 | shay_shay | nothing better than being able to kexec from your bios |
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| 16:55.33 | orzo | jvelasquez: on my debian testing install, there was nthing found by "unhide -f -m -d sys procall brute reverse" |
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| 16:56.04 | teraflop | shay_shay: i wish i could do coreboot |
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| 16:56.43 | orzo | i think i can do coreboot, and that's nice to know, but i'm still running the vendor bios |
| 16:57.21 | anddam | shay_shay: what board? |
| 16:57.33 | shay_shay | acer c720 :P |
| 16:57.38 | teraflop | orzo: it implies some risks i suppose |
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| 16:58.14 | anddam | I think I'm gonna remove legacy BIOS support from firmware |
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| 16:58.32 | teraflop | nobody likes a bricked mobo |
| 16:58.57 | [RO]Daniel | :\ |
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| 16:59.57 | shay_shay | theres someone who builds for/supports my chromebook so I use it, but I might think twice if I had to compile it myself |
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| 17:00.26 | shay_shay | i like the security blanket that comes with "someone else flashed this before me and it worked" |
| 17:00.39 | teraflop | heh |
| 17:00.53 | m3tti | anyone |
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| 17:01.48 | hay207 | hi guys, anyone wants to play freetennis? |
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| 17:02.19 | bezaban | hay207: #debian-offtopic :) |
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| 17:02.27 | hay207 | ok sorry |
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| 17:06.58 | Dom7th | v |
| 17:07.21 | m3tti | can anyone help me |
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| 17:10.42 | teraflop | m3tti: i915 is too generic, what gpu? also did you look at the journal/logs? |
| 17:11.05 | m3tti | teraflop, how to look at the journals |
| 17:11.11 | teraflop | s/what/which* |
| 17:11.28 | m3tti | Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 |
| 17:11.44 | teraflop | m3tti: that's an old one |
| 17:11.48 | m3tti | yes |
| 17:12.12 | teraflop | m3tti: are you on jessie with systemd? |
| 17:12.18 | m3tti | yes |
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| 17:13.41 | m3tti | the journalctl does not show anything that could relate to that error |
| 17:13.59 | teraflop | m3tti: and journalctl -u lightdm.service? |
| 17:14.00 | BogeymanAgnostic | Hi! Is it possible to upgrade Squeeze to Jessie? Or, shall I upgrade Squeeze to Wheezy, and then from Wheezy to Jessie? |
| 17:14.25 | teraflop | m3tti: then look at xorg logs |
| 17:14.34 | m3tti | just Error getting user list from org.freedesktop.Accounts: and afterward session opend for user m3tti |
| 17:14.37 | greycat | BogeymanAgnostic: the latter. |
| 17:14.38 | bezaban | BogeymanAgnostic: squeeze->wheezy->jessie :) |
| 17:14.55 | BogeymanAgnostic | greycat, bezaban, thank you |
| 17:15.10 | m3tti | everything fine no errors |
| 17:15.29 | teraflop | m3tti: in case is a gpu issue ... which you don't certainly know |
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| 17:15.55 | m3tti | teraflop, the strange thing is it doesn't show up but after switching to tty1 and back to the tty of lightdm it comes up |
| 17:15.57 | BogeymanAgnostic | What's the difference between "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt-get upgrade"? I've been using "apt-get dist-upgrade" for years. |
| 17:16.03 | teraflop | m3tti: then I suggest try with other session manager |
| 17:16.24 | m3tti | slim has this problem to |
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| 17:17.12 | teraflop | m3tti: are you using UEFI? i got intel graphics errors with macbooks using EFI with the same gpu |
| 17:17.38 | m3tti | no normal bios |
| 17:17.45 | teraflop | I lost video in tty and weird things like that |
| 17:17.55 | teraflop | m3tti: then i have no clue |
| 17:18.09 | m3tti | teraflop, me either |
| 17:18.22 | teraflop | try other session manager I think, i know that's not a very elegant solution |
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| 17:19.04 | m3tti | i've the strange feeling systemd is starting lightdm to fast |
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| 17:25.00 | cirdan | afternoon all. not s debian specific question but does anyone here have *good* experiances with lto tape drives? considering getting one for personal backups and long term storage, but people keep telling me to stay away the drives die fast. |
| 17:25.35 | greycat | We use LTO-3 drives here at work, and we've had a few need fixing. Not the most reliable tape drives I've ever used, but not *horrible*. |
| 17:25.49 | greycat | For personal backups, I'd recommend an external hard disk instead. |
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| 17:25.58 | greycat | Or a dropbox account or something. Or both. |
| 17:26.03 | teraflop | m3tti: hmmm what greeter do you use? |
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| 17:27.10 | sydney_untangle | No drive, no matter what type, lasts forever. |
| 17:27.22 | cirdan | greycat: im looking to back up 12tb of data atm and growing |
| 17:27.31 | sydney_untangle | Oh tape!? |
| 17:27.33 | sydney_untangle | On* |
| 17:27.35 | greycat | sydney_untangle: I'm comparing to, say, DDS-4 drives which *never* died. |
| 17:27.49 | RoyK | anyone tried to install jessie on btrfs? I want to give it a try in a vm, but not sure what to do with /boot and swap |
| 17:27.49 | cirdan | lto5 is 1.5tb uncompressed, and are about $10 each |
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| 17:29.17 | cirdan | RoyK: i use debian on zfs (it rocks) and yeah dont put /boot and swap on it |
| 17:29.21 | greycat | Google shows LTO-5 tapes from $19.24 to $32.99 |
| 17:29.30 | [RO]Daniel | can anyone tell me why do i have a lot of nvidia stuff since my video card is not nvidia? |
| 17:29.30 | cirdan | greycat: lots on ebay new in box |
| 17:29.41 | Mister | Hi |
| 17:29.47 | cirdan | even still at $20 each that's $14/tb |
| 17:29.51 | RoyK | cirdan: I use zfs a lot, just trying to play with btrfs on this VM |
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| 17:30.16 | cirdan | my wd reds are 40-$50/tb |
| 17:30.24 | sydney_untangle | [RO]Daniel: You shouldn't have any nvidia stuff installed |
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| 17:30.36 | [RO]Daniel | well, i have A LOT of them |
| 17:30.40 | RoyK | cirdan: wd red spins horribly slowly |
| 17:30.46 | [RO]Daniel | but i don't get it why, i have intel hd 3000 laptop |
| 17:31.04 | cirdan | they do but 150MB/sec is fine for me |
| 17:31.13 | cirdan | it's lots of videos, pictures, and backups |
| 17:31.33 | sydney_untangle | [RO]Daniel: Such as? |
| 17:31.44 | [RO]Daniel | i even have that app nvidia x configuration settings |
| 17:31.53 | sydney_untangle | \o/ |
| 17:31.59 | sydney_untangle | You must have installed them, |
| 17:32.13 | [RO]Daniel | and if i write nvidia in the apper, appears as installed a lot of nvidia stuff |
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| 17:32.32 | teraflop | [RO]Daniel: is that an optimus thing and you are using bumblebee? |
| 17:33.11 | [RO]Daniel | i... don't know what optimus is, but if you mean those laptops with 2 cards (in my opinion is stupid) no i don't have that |
| 17:33.20 | [RO]Daniel | it is only one, intel hd 3000, nothing else |
| 17:33.28 | teraflop | [RO]Daniel: ah, ok |
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| 17:34.29 | [RO]Daniel | maybe that's why the system freeze overnight if i let vlc running |
| 17:34.39 | [RO]Daniel | it has the wrong stuff installed |
| 17:34.45 | Akuw | hi |
| 17:34.45 | Akuw | how can i install grub from rescue disk? |
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| 17:35.32 | anddam | teraflop: was the broken mobo line for me? |
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| 17:35.46 | anddam | !grub |
| 17:35.46 | dpkg | GNU GRUB 2 is a portable and powerful boot loader. Ask me about <grub config> and <grub default>. To reinstall, ask me about <fixmbr>. http://wiki.debian.org/Grub2 #grub on irc.freenode.net. See also <grub legacy>. |
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| 17:35.53 | teraflop | anddam: nope, it was about installing coreboot |
| 17:35.55 | anddam | Akuw: check fixmbr |
| 17:36.05 | anddam | !tell Akuw about fixmbr |
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| 17:36.29 | T0ast_phone | Hey |
| 17:36.58 | T0ast_phone | How do you set a partition as /root and /usr in the debian installer? |
| 17:37.17 | [RO]Daniel | so anyone have any ideea why all those nvidia stuff got installed on my system? |
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| 17:37.47 | T0ast_phone | Please help, I'm staring at the screen |
| 17:38.19 | greycat | The same partition can't simultaneously be both / and /usr but you can just not have a separate /usr at all. |
| 17:38.32 | T0ast_phone | Sorry I meant |
| 17:38.47 | T0ast_phone | How do you set partitions as /root and /usr in the debian installer? |
| 17:39.11 | valdyn | T0ast_phone: theres no reason to have a partition for /root/ |
| 17:39.12 | greycat | Create the partitions, and arrow down to each one's "mount as" field or whatever it's called. |
| 17:39.21 | greycat | Also that. |
| 17:39.22 | [RO]Daniel | you just double click them, use as...and so on, it is verry simple |
| 17:39.30 | greycat | double... click...? |
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| 17:39.36 | [RO]Daniel | yes |
| 17:39.49 | [RO]Daniel | or select them and press enter if you dont use mouse |
| 17:40.09 | greycat | I can't imagine needing a partition for /root |
| 17:40.23 | T0ast_phone | Where should it go, greycat? |
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| 17:40.43 | greycat | It will just be a directory inside / |
| 17:40.43 | g105b | Hi guys, how would I have the output of a cron script be written to a file with the current date and time? |
| 17:40.50 | g105b | Can I put something in crontab for this? |
| 17:41.04 | T0ast_phone | I'm trying to put /root and /usr on an SSD and the user stuff on an HDD, greycat |
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| 17:41.25 | kevr | to compile libu2f-server on debian, i need gtk-doc, but i can't find gtk-doc to install in wheezy or jessie repos o_O |
| 17:41.31 | greycat | /root might not be what you think it is. It doesn't have much in it. |
| 17:41.38 | T0ast_phone | Oh ok |
| 17:41.45 | Akuw | anddam: fixmbr? |
| 17:41.49 | T0ast_phone | What should I put on the SSD then? |
| 17:41.49 | greycat | It's just "the home dir of root", so it's got, like, 3 dot files and nothing else. |
| 17:42.05 | valdyn | T0ast_phone: the "root partition" is "/", not "/root" |
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| 17:42.21 | T0ast_phone | Ohhhj |
| 17:42.25 | T0ast_phone | Silly me |
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| 17:42.58 | T0ast_phone | Hehe, I can do this with parabola but not the easy debian installer |
| 17:43.02 | T0ast_phone | I'm dumb |
| 17:43.41 | anddam | Akuw: yes |
| 17:44.00 | Akuw | is a command? |
| 17:44.31 | greycat | Akuw: /msg dpkg fixmbr |
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| 17:46.47 | Akuw | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:46.57 | greycat | without leading spaces |
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| 17:47.26 | Akuw | ok |
| 17:47.36 | fluffyx | how can i display a toolbar in debian 8 gnome? |
| 17:47.42 | Akuw | i am not clear with chroot, what is the meaning |
| 17:47.48 | nurupo | i keep getting this changelog for new updates in KDE's Apper |
| 17:47.48 | nurupo | >The developer logs will be shown as no description is available for this update: |
| 17:47.48 | nurupo | >Changelog for iceweasel is not (yet) available (404 Not Found [IP: 23.235.39.249 80]) |
| 17:48.05 | greycat | "man 8 chroot" |
| 17:48.12 | nurupo | every time theer is update, there is no changelog and it's 404 |
| 17:48.24 | nurupo | that's since Jessie became stable |
| 17:48.36 | Akuw | after a apt-get dist-upgrade i get all debian 8 updates? |
| 17:48.37 | nurupo | (i'm on Jessie) |
| 17:48.41 | Akuw | how to know it? |
| 17:48.59 | greycat | Akuw: once you're on jessie, it's just "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" |
| 17:49.11 | greycat | You only need dist-upgrade when moving between major releases. |
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| 17:51.04 | Akuw | actually i am using wheezy, so to upgrade to jessie i have to add repository? |
| 17:51.13 | greycat | Akuw: /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie |
| 17:51.24 | fluffyx | can i get something similar to windows toolbar on debian? |
| 17:51.39 | greycat | Depends on which window manager you use. |
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| 17:52.20 | fluffyx | manager? |
| 17:52.25 | greycat | I don't use any of the big fancy things, but in my limited experience watching others, people who come from Windows tend to prefer KDE over GNOME. |
| 17:52.51 | Akuw | LXDE |
| 17:53.02 | kodapa | fluffyx: https://wiki.debian.org/DesktopEnvironment |
| 17:53.13 | fluffyx | I'm using Gnome and I'm just getting used to it |
| 17:54.06 | fluffyx | I would like to see what applications are running in the backround - something like a toolbar. IS this not possible in gnome without installing something else? |
| 17:54.37 | Akuw | task manager |
| 17:54.59 | valdyn | he wants to see his applications, not processes |
| 17:55.09 | fluffyx | yes but something that's always on the display in the corner |
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| 17:55.41 | anddam | greycat: I already sent the factoid to him |
| 17:55.43 | CHVNX | http://venom.crowdstrike.com <-- Important. |
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| 17:55.59 | anddam | greycat: before he asked "fixmbr?" |
| 17:56.04 | kodapa | fluffyx: maybe something like https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/815/simple-dock/ ? |
| 17:56.24 | anddam | what happens if I use grub-efi using a partition rather than a disk as argument? |
| 17:56.49 | kodapa | fluffyx: or https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/602/window-list/ |
| 17:56.53 | anddam | I mean using a partition rather than a disk device as argument _to grub-install_ |
| 17:57.11 | valdyn | anddam: then grub installs to the partition (duh) |
| 17:57.22 | fluffyx | kodapa - that's basically another dock |
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| 17:57.41 | anddam | valdyn: how can it do it if grub-efi installs the boot manager in /boot/efi? |
| 17:58.49 | anddam | valdyn: at https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall the example targets "grub-install /dev/sda" but the actual EFI executable is installed in the ESP partition of that disk |
| 17:58.54 | fluffyx | Is there a desktop (kde?) that provides what I'm looking for? |
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| 17:59.05 | anddam | from the man page it's not clear what happens if the argument is a partition rather than a disk, |
| 17:59.28 | anddam | fluffyx: define "applications" here |
| 17:59.40 | anddam | fluffyx: any process? |
| 17:59.53 | valdyn | anddam: i cant tell you anything "efi" specific. But to grub its all block devices |
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| 18:00.07 | valdyn | anddam: and it might not work of course to boot that |
| 18:00.11 | kevr | http://sprunge.us/NYJc |
| 18:00.18 | kevr | a2x is installed though |
| 18:00.24 | valdyn | anddam: or it might throw an error because it cannot find an efi partition inside that partition |
| 18:00.29 | kevr | what do |
| 18:00.40 | anddam | valdyn: yes it's all block devices, since those are block devices, but for a MBR install it's different to install /dev/sda or /dev/sdaX |
| 18:00.41 | Akuw | i am apt-get upgrade i got "The following packages have been kept back:" |
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| 18:00.51 | greycat | Did you actually get jessie's x2x to work?! |
| 18:00.53 | Akuw | that that means? |
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| 18:01.18 | valdyn | anddam: for booting it yea, for grub its all the same |
| 18:01.26 | greycat | Akuw: if it's just db5.1-util, ignore it |
| 18:01.26 | anddam | valdyn: I'm sure I ran "grub-install /dev/sda2" and I have a boot manager now, but I cannot tell if it was from previous setting or not |
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| 18:01.39 | Akuw | no, is a big list of packages |
| 18:01.41 | valdyn | anddam: it was from previous setting |
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| 18:01.49 | anddam | valdyn: my question is UEFI specific tho', since it has to find a ESP partition |
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| 18:01.52 | greycat | Akuw: are you sure you *completed* an upgrade to jessie? |
| 18:02.00 | greycat | Or are you half way in between? |
| 18:02.12 | Akuw | i just put in sources.list and apt-get update |
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| 18:02.23 | greycat | You put *what* in sources.list? |
| 18:02.42 | Akuw | deb http://http.debian.net/debian jessie main |
| 18:02.48 | greycat | What was it before? |
| 18:02.59 | Akuw | deb http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy main |
| 18:03.04 | fnstudio | hi, i connect my cellphone to my debian laptop via usb, then allow tethering on the phone (some context: phone works, laptop has a freshly installed jessie) - connection works for a minute (it says `wired connection`) then it switches to `broadband` and stops working |
| 18:03.06 | fnstudio | any idea? |
| 18:03.13 | greycat | Then you are just performing the first step of an upgrade. You have a way to go. |
| 18:03.35 | anddam | valdyn: I should probably check grub2 docs |
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| 18:03.43 | Akuw | ? |
| 18:04.00 | greycat | Akuw: /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie |
| 18:04.01 | anddam | Akuw: meaning you didn't complete the upgrade |
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| 18:05.05 | wonko | howdy debianites. Got some weird issues with an apt-mirror repo I'm running |
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| 18:05.39 | Akuw | i did apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 18:05.44 | kevr | needed xmllint |
| 18:05.45 | Akuw | now ungrading... |
| 18:06.02 | wonko | specifically I'm trying to install the ntp package. It says there is no such package. When I look at the apt-mirror repo it's there and it's listed in Packages. |
| 18:06.06 | wonko | so I'm really confused |
| 18:06.46 | anddam | wonko: maybe something helpful in "aptitude update" output? |
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| 18:11.00 | Andril | hello |
| 18:11.35 | Andril | i need a bit of help installing 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK208 [GeForce GT 720] (rev a1) |
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| 18:12.13 | atomtm | Hello everyone! Is there any alternative I can use for skype on debian jessie? |
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| 18:12.50 | teraflop | atomtm: you mean Skype compatible? |
| 18:13.03 | FLHerne | atomtm: Specifically for compatibility with other Skype users, or are alternative videochat systems acceptable? |
| 18:13.16 | teraflop | If not utox looks fine |
| 18:14.07 | FLHerne | The Skype protocol is proprietary, there are no alternatives with direct Skype compatibility |
| 18:14.28 | fnstudio | i might be wrong, but it could be ModemManager hijacking the cellphone usb connection |
| 18:14.47 | atomtm | yes skype compatible |
| 18:14.55 | atomtm | I want to communicate with other skype users |
| 18:15.04 | atomtm | - msn users |
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| 18:15.49 | FLHerne | atomtm: I think there are some clients that work with the MSN text-chat protocol |
| 18:15.55 | FLHerne | Definitely not Skype video |
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| 18:15.56 | teraflop | Friends don't let friends to use skype |
| 18:16.11 | atomtm | teraflop, hahahaha |
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| 18:16.22 | atomtm | ok but people are people |
| 18:16.25 | atomtm | they make mistakes |
| 18:16.37 | teraflop | Yep |
| 18:17.17 | atomtm | So is there any? |
| 18:17.28 | teraflop | Idn |
| 18:17.33 | teraflop | K* |
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| 18:18.59 | atomtm | FLHerne, do you any clients I can install? |
| 18:19.04 | atomtm | know* |
| 18:19.22 | FLHerne | atomtm: No, I don't use evil proprietary chat protocols :P |
| 18:19.26 | FLHerne | IRC ftw! |
| 18:19.31 | atomtm | + |
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| 18:19.58 | atomtm | but I would be really glad If I could communicate with my other friends too! |
| 18:19.59 | atomtm | :) |
| 18:21.35 | fnstudio | FWIW purging the nosy ModemManager did the trick |
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| 18:22.23 | wonko | anddam: I get Hits on everything except InRelease and Translation-en_US both of which are Ign |
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| 18:23.21 | anddam | wonko: I can't really help you but bpaste the output and someone probably will |
| 18:23.39 | anddam | what's with the Vendor() path lines in last block at https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall ? |
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| 18:23.47 | Andril | no love :( |
| 18:24.02 | dzzzzr | CAn anyone help with a problem please can't access packages - I get 'E: The value 'wheezy' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources |
| 18:24.16 | dzzzzr | CAn anyone help with a problem please can't access packages - I get E: The value 'wheezy' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources |
| 18:24.46 | anddam | the Problem2 sections seems to refer to the debian one as the "missing HD path", and that's what I got in my fedora entry https://gist.github.com/anddam/9cee37a57fd59fd2c2c3 |
| 18:24.57 | dzzzzr | this is using Knoppix tried apt-get aptitude and synaptic package manager |
| 18:25.13 | anddam | Andril: what do you mean with "installing"? |
| 18:25.21 | anddam | Andril: that's already there or you wouldn't see it in lspci |
| 18:25.34 | teraflop | dzzzzr: try it in a real debian |
| 18:25.44 | dzzzzr | :P |
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| 18:26.01 | Andril | anddam, it says Gallium 0.4 on NV108 in details |
| 18:26.21 | Andril | and it freezes once in a while |
| 18:26.23 | dzzzzr | I spent days trying to make a live boot key that would work with persistence......... and persistently failed |
| 18:26.24 | wonko | https://gist.github.com/bhechinger/5305aede84e9ce69080e |
| 18:26.30 | wonko | if anyone can help it would be fantastic. :) |
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| 18:26.45 | dzzzzr | thats a Debian live boot |
| 18:26.50 | anddam | wonko: IIRC debian can do that |
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| 18:28.04 | anddam | wonko: sorry that was meant for dzzzzr |
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| 18:29.19 | dzzzzr | anddam, yeah it should be able to but I couldnt make it work properly as I said spent days on it and ran out of time/patience |
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| 18:29.51 | viccuad | Hi guys. This one is a weird one: 'gpg --card status' or 'gpg2 --card status' don't work, I can't access my smartcard (Yubikey Neo) but if I do su |
| 18:29.53 | viccuad | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.57 | dzzzzr | anddam, knoppix worked without much sweat.. which was nice |
| 18:30.09 | viccuad | (oh, what a mess.. sorry) |
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| 18:31.42 | wonko | anddam: boo! You got me all excited cause you were talking to me. :) |
| 18:32.12 | kevr | i'm using pam_u2f.so in /etc/pam.d/sshd, but it's just kind of bypassing the u2f device remotely. |
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| 18:32.47 | kevr | or not recognizing it. if i use the manual parameter, it gives me a request to put into u2f-host somewhere and process with the key |
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| 18:34.47 | dzzzzr | I <3 u Debain crew but you were never really there when I realy needed you.....lol |
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| 18:42.46 | dzzzzr | I'm back but just for a while then I'm out of here..... ...... ca you help please???? |
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| 18:45.17 | CHVNX | Help with what? |
| 18:45.19 | CHVNX | Be specific. |
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| 18:47.32 | dzzzzr | I was just on a minute ago not able to update packages |
| 18:47.37 | dzzzzr | CHVNX, |
| 18:48.10 | dzzzzr | I get E: The value 'wheezy' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources |
| 18:48.24 | dzzzzr | using Knoppix |
| 18:48.56 | CHVNX | dzzzzr: Knoppix is not Debian. Ask the knoppix community. |
| 18:49.09 | dzzzzr | its kinda debian |
| 18:49.22 | greycat | !knoppix |
| 18:49.23 | dpkg | Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. http://www.knoppix.org/ unofficial: http://Debian-knoppix.alioth.Debian.org/ <Debian-live> is the Debian equivalent for publishing live systems. |
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| 18:50.14 | dzzzzr | dpkg, yeah but #knoppix channel is dead CHVNX |
| 18:50.14 | dpkg | dzzzzr: okay |
| 18:50.32 | greycat | dpkg, forget yeah but #knoppix channel |
| 18:50.32 | dpkg | greycat: i forgot yeah but #knoppix channel |
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| 18:51.06 | greycat | Your chosen distribution's unpopularity is NOT a #debian problem. We can't help you with Knoppix, or with #knoppix. |
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| 18:51.21 | dzzzzr | :) |
| 18:51.41 | dzzzzr | :) |
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| 18:52.30 | dzzzzr | <3 to the tribalists |
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| 18:53.41 | teraflop | was that a ragequit? im not good at those things |
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| 18:53.54 | greycat | I don't care what kind it was, so long as he's gone. |
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| 18:55.10 | wim_ | how would you setup a dual boot linux system (eg debian stable and lmde) while having full encrypted partitions (only the /boot partition non encrypted) |
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| 18:57.20 | jerng | hi all. just recognized that one of my servers which is connected to the internet doesn't have an entry for 'http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates' in sources.list. Does that mean it was exposed to vulnerabilities all the time? |
| 18:57.28 | greycat | Possibly. |
| 18:57.33 | greycat | Depends on which packages you're running. |
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| 18:58.35 | greycat | Add the security updates line, apply them, and the list of what gets applied is your potential list of past vulnerabilities. |
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| 19:01.42 | anddam | from efibootmgr(8) "An OS installer would call efibootmgr -c. This assumes that /boot/efi is your EFI System Partition, and is mounted at /dev/sda1." aren't block device and path just swapped? |
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| 19:02.14 | greycat | The way I use the words, yes. I would reverse those. |
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| 19:02.31 | greycat | Documents that talk about symlinks are even worse. |
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| 19:03.21 | jerng | greycat: thx! |
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| 19:12.38 | anddam | seems I manually configured the fedora entri in UEFI using efibootmgr, let's see if it works |
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| 19:19.54 | shay_shay | anddam: just as long as you escape the slashes in the right way.. the Debian page on efi stub has this info |
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| 19:23.54 | atomtm | guys I am trying virtualenv for python by following this tutorials : http://simononsoftware.com/virtualenv-tutorial-part-2/ . What files should I configure so that everytime I open a console , mkvirtualenv is recognized |
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| 19:24.14 | shay_shay | I think the initrd= needs escaped backslashes |
| 19:24.15 | atomtm | I have tried gedit ~/.bashrc |
| 19:24.49 | atomtm | but this does not work |
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| 19:25.03 | greycat | mkvirtualenv only appears twice in that article, both times inside examples, no clue where it comes from |
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| 19:26.00 | valdyn | judd: versions virtualenvwrapper |
| 19:26.01 | judd | Package: virtualenvwrapper on amd64 -- squeeze: 2.2.2-2; wheezy: 3.4-2; stretch: 4.3.1-2; jessie: 4.3.1-2; sid: 4.3.1-2 |
| 19:26.04 | greycat | What did you do the first time, to make it work? |
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| 19:26.39 | atomtm | greycat, it states that you have to initialize some variables ,i.e. export WORKON_HOME=$HOME/.virtualenvs |
| 19:26.48 | atomtm | and source /usr/local/bin/virtualenvwrapper_lazy.sh |
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| 19:27.13 | greycat | So mkvirtualenv is a bash function defined inside /usr/local/bin/virtualenvwrapper_lazy.sh ? |
| 19:27.34 | atomtm | " also added an environment variable to my shell. I use zshell currently, so I added this to my ~/.zshrc, if you use a standard shell, like bash, you need to add the configuration to your ~/.bashrc file." |
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| 19:27.42 | atomtm | greycat, yes I suppose |
| 19:27.53 | greycat | And do you use bash? |
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| 19:28.07 | atomtm | I use the default terminal in debian |
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| 19:28.10 | atomtm | so yes bash |
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| 19:28.14 | greycat | Bash is a shell, not a terminal. |
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| 19:28.31 | greycat | If you're in bash, then ~/.bashrc is the correct file to edit. |
| 19:28.44 | atomtm | ok didnt know that there were a difference |
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| 19:28.54 | atomtm | pls forgive my ignorance I am new... |
| 19:29.02 | atomtm | was* |
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| 19:29.37 | atomtm | I have modified bashrc by adding those 2 commands on the end of the file |
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| 19:30.25 | greycat | And then you opened another terminal with bash in it...? |
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| 19:31.42 | atomtm | pls explain |
| 19:31.56 | greycat | You have to open a new instance of bash to read that file. |
| 19:32.07 | atomtm | how can I do that ? |
| 19:32.07 | greycat | It doesn't magically apply to all your existing windows. |
| 19:32.11 | atomtm | ok |
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| 19:32.45 | atomtm | when I open a terminal doesn't this include shell? |
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| 19:33.18 | greycat | When you open a new terminal, it will run a new instance of bash (or whatever your SHELL variable says) inside it. |
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| 19:34.38 | atomtm | I get bash: SHELL: command not found |
| 19:34.45 | atomtm | so I suppose I am using bash |
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| 19:34.56 | prince_jammys | echo "$SHELL" |
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| 19:35.16 | atomtm | /bin/bash |
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| 19:35.21 | atomtm | so yes bash |
| 19:35.34 | atomtm | I thought that terminal is an interpreter for bash |
| 19:35.34 | prince_jammys | did you install virtualenvwrapper via apt? |
| 19:35.36 | atomtm | isn |
| 19:35.38 | greycat | Right, so any NEW windows you opened after writing the changes to .bashrc should have those changes. |
| 19:35.40 | atomtm | isn't it |
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| 19:36.09 | greycat | The terminal is the two-dimensional window where characters appear. Bash is the command interpreter that runs inside it. |
| 19:36.10 | prince_jammys | No. The main purpose of the terminal is send your input to the program it runs, and display its output. |
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| 19:36.19 | atomtm | ok |
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| 19:36.48 | Andril | will debian recognize my windows drive if i add it back to sda |
| 19:36.49 | atomtm | on a new terminal window I get bash: mkvirtualenv: command not found |
| 19:36.51 | prince_jammys | it's a "terminal emulator" in that the terminal used to be hardware. |
| 19:37.25 | greycat | atomtm: does the mkvirtualenv command work in ANY of your windows at ALL? |
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| 19:37.51 | prince_jammys | did you install it through apt? this /usr/local business is suspicious. |
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| 19:37.59 | atomtm | greycat, not if I explicitly define those 2 vars from scratch |
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| 19:38.17 | greycat | Find one where it WORKS and then figure out what you did to make it work, and duplicate that globally. |
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| 19:39.21 | atomtm | it only works if enter WORKON_HOME=$HOME/.virtualenvs and source /usr/local/bin/virtualenvwrapper_lazy.sh |
| 19:39.42 | m3tti | teraflop, ok now i've installed nodm and it works like a charm i'm locking the screen after login in and everything is ok |
| 19:39.43 | atomtm | after this mkvirtualenv works fine |
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| 19:39.46 | greycat | Are you sure those are in a part of .bashrc that is actually reachable? Not, like, after a "return" command or something? |
| 19:39.59 | atomtm | so I thought that to make it global I should just modify the bashrc file |
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| 19:40.12 | atomtm | prince_jammys, I installed it via pip |
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| 19:40.24 | prince_jammys | ah. |
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| 19:40.55 | prince_jammys | via pip as root, apparently. |
| 19:41.12 | atomtm | I can't recall but I think so yes |
| 19:41.24 | prince_jammys | if it ended up in /usr/local ... |
| 19:41.28 | atomtm | I did 2 days ago , didn't have the time to configure it though |
| 19:41.32 | atomtm | ok |
| 19:41.33 | teraflop | m3tti: nice. |
| 19:41.41 | greycat | Maybe you should pastebin your entire .bashrc file. |
| 19:41.52 | atomtm | sec |
| 19:42.22 | m3tti | so next question how can i trigger slock after a lid close |
| 19:42.22 | m3tti | = |
| 19:42.23 | m3tti | ? |
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| 19:44.25 | K-202 | any way to set up ad-hoc connection (Debian 8 with XFCE as host)? |
| 19:44.47 | anddam | aaand I screwed my working boot manager |
| 19:44.56 | prince_jammys | greycat: not sure why they advise to use .bashrc instead of .*profile, but whatever. |
| 19:45.23 | atomtm | aahhh found it |
| 19:45.24 | anddam | or better I added a second one for fedora, that was set after my debian one in list but the firmware manager only listed the fedora one |
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| 19:45.36 | prince_jammys | virtualenv sets up some environment variables that change the python lib look-up path and allow you to install 3rd party libs in a "sandbox". |
| 19:45.37 | atomtm | I have edited the file inside an if statement |
| 19:45.39 | anddam | now getting a netinstall to use as rescue disk |
| 19:45.43 | atomtm | didnt notice that |
| 19:45.50 | atomtm | now it works as supposed |
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| 19:46.14 | atomtm | I just realised that while trying to pastebin the file |
| 19:46.39 | dokma | Am I right in supposing that PHP's posix fifos most of the time wont even reach the file system for small amounts of data going in and out quickly? |
| 19:46.39 | greycat | ok, good |
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| 19:46.49 | dokma | But simply go in and out of file system buffers... |
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| 19:47.04 | atomtm | greycat, prince_jammys , thank you very much |
| 19:47.09 | greycat | dokma: that's true for any sufficiently short-lived temp file, too |
| 19:47.15 | prince_jammys | atomtm: once you are using virtualenv, avoid '''sudo pip install''' things unless you must. |
| 19:47.28 | atomtm | ok |
| 19:47.43 | prince_jammys | (in my opinion) |
| 19:47.53 | atomtm | prince_jammys, I just realized that sudo does not come by default with debian |
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| 19:48.00 | atomtm | I had to do su |
| 19:48.00 | prince_jammys | I fear ''sudo some-other-installer-that-isnt-apt ''' |
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| 19:48.06 | atomtm | to go root |
| 19:48.26 | dokma | greycat, I was thinking of implementing interprocess communication in PHP via some shared memory segments. But fifos are so much simpler and then it occurred to me they're cached and probably won't be any slower than raw shared memory access.... |
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| 19:49.30 | prince_jammys | atomtm: oh, I thought it shipped with debian these days. |
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| 19:51.07 | atomtm | no but its ok |
| 19:51.11 | atomtm | :) |
| 19:52.08 | atomtm | I have to go to sleep ! Thanks again guys ! |
| 19:52.16 | atomtm | Good night |
| 19:53.12 | prince_jammys | I wonder what the rationale is for that, given how much stuff debian ships with. |
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| 20:00.44 | anddam | neat, I managed to find my way through UEFI shell, no need to use the rescue disc at all |
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| 20:00.58 | anddam | quite satisfactory |
| 20:01.33 | teraflop | anddam: yeah. |
| 20:02.21 | anddam | ah here's the deal efibootmgr put the boot manager I added on head of BootOrder list and since it was bad (not sure why) it screwed me |
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| 20:02.26 | ryouma | you mean the computer itself has rescue software? |
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| 20:02.43 | anddam | ryouma: no, you still need an Operator, like in the Matrix |
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| 20:02.56 | anddam | but my firmware has a shell |
| 20:03.00 | ryouma | what is an operator? is that part of debian? |
| 20:03.12 | anddam | no, it's a joke based on a reference of Matrix, the movie |
| 20:03.14 | greycat | It was... a poor joke. |
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| 20:03.25 | anddam | greycat: first thing, it was a _great_ joke |
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| 20:03.52 | teraflop | greycat: heh |
| 20:04.01 | anddam | ryouma: my UEFI firmware has a shell, I think it's common but AFAICT it's not part of the specifics so not all firmwares may have it |
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| 20:04.17 | ryouma | anddam: so it has lsblk and blkid and mount and ever5ything? |
| 20:04.42 | anddam | ryouma: absolutely not |
| 20:04.56 | anddam | it has its own (msdos-like) builtin commands |
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| 20:05.28 | anddam | but you can browse FAT partition, browse the device tree, mount from it |
| 20:05.42 | shay_shay | anddam: you might want to just use gummiboot as a menu if the one your nuc comes with isnt co-operating |
| 20:05.50 | shay_shay | but i think there must be something you're overlooking |
| 20:06.00 | anddam | shay_shay: like? |
| 20:06.34 | shay_shay | i wish i could devote some time to your problem but i'm at work unfortunately. |
| 20:06.47 | shay_shay | i dont know off the top of my head |
| 20:09.00 | anddam | np |
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| 20:10.02 | anddam | efibootmgr -l option says "Specify a loader (defaults to \\elilo.efi)" so I guess I have to specify paths relative to /boot/efi using backslash as separator |
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| 20:10.36 | anddam | but I see on reboot that my fedora boot manager entry became HD(1,800,f3800,89f05bca-a1ac-4771-8b99-879c0e6d56d1)File(\EFIfedoragrubx64.efi) |
| 20:10.44 | anddam | notice the File() without separators |
| 20:11.12 | anddam | while the debian boot manger has become Vendor(99e275e7-75a0-4b37-a2e6-c5385e6c00cb,) |
| 20:11.21 | acz32 | anyone know if you can use the menu button in KDE keyboard shortcuts? it doesn't seem to work |
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| 20:12.05 | anddam | before adding the fedora boot manager the debian one was working and had a proper File(\EFI\debian\grubx64.efi) part |
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| 20:12.42 | mtn | acz32: what is the "menu button" and which shortcuts are you referring to? what is it you want to do? |
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| 20:13.23 | greycat | I think he means the Microsoft Windows key on newer US PC keyboards. |
| 20:13.42 | mtn | yes, he might. but, does he? |
| 20:13.42 | greycat | One of those keys, anyway. |
| 20:13.47 | acz32 | mtn: not the microsoft/super key. the "Menu" key. it's between alt and control on the right side of the space bar |
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| 20:14.00 | mtn | acz32: the |
| 20:14.07 | mtn | acz32: the fn key? |
| 20:14.10 | anddam | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menu_key |
| 20:14.31 | acz32 | no.. it's called the Menu key. what key do you have to the left of R_Ctrl on your keyboard? |
| 20:14.32 | greycat | ok, "next to the Windows key" |
| 20:14.57 | mtn | heh, never had that key on my keyboard. |
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| 20:15.31 | greycat | Even the HP keyboard that I'm typing on now, which came with an HP Unix workstation, has a "wing logo" key and a Menu key. |
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| 20:15.52 | NoImNotNineVolt | i never had an AltGr key either, but i'm not baffled when documentation refers to it. |
| 20:16.37 | acz32 | xev calls it "Menu" so that's why i used that name |
| 20:16.51 | NoImNotNineVolt | it is a menu key. that's what it's called. |
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| 20:16.59 | NoImNotNineVolt | i hate keyboards without a menu key. |
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| 20:17.10 | NoImNotNineVolt | (context-menu key would be more descriptive, though) |
| 20:17.20 | greycat | Really? You actually press yours? What does it do? |
| 20:17.24 | acz32 | i love that key for window manipulation, not to mention to open a menu in whatever application i'm in |
| 20:17.55 | greycat | I don't think I've ever pressed it. I map the Windows (or Wing) key to Compose sometimes, but I've never used Menu. |
| 20:18.35 | prince_jammys | here it's as if I right-clicked (not configured by me, xfce desktop) |
| 20:18.41 | buu | I use the menu key to activate the context menu on selected files in file managers |
| 20:18.43 | prince_jammys | I didn't even know about it. |
| 20:19.06 | acz32 | it opens context menu in whatever application has a context menu, like firefox, file managers, etc |
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| 20:19.42 | prince_jammys | I might just have to start using that. |
| 20:19.58 | greycat | OK, now I've actually pressed mine. |
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| 20:20.13 | acz32 | funny because i asked in #KDE yesterday and they thought i meant the Super key too. i guess people don't use their Menu key, or know about it/have it |
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| 20:22.07 | FLHerne | acz32: It really is a spectacularly useless key :P |
| 20:22.25 | FLHerne | If you're using a menu by mouse, you're using the right mouse button |
| 20:22.42 | FLHerne | If you're using a menu by keyboard, you're not doing that because shortcuts |
| 20:22.53 | acz32 | FLHerne: i can't live without it. because i use it in keybindings to minimize/maximize/close windows right my right hand. i find it much easier than control+Q or something with my left hand |
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| 20:24.08 | mtn | heh "can't live without it" sounds fatal |
| 20:24.25 | FLHerne | Ok, it's a useful _key_, but not a useful function |
| 20:25.00 | FLHerne | Might try that actually, I use Alt for WM stuff atm and it tends to clash with other stuff |
| 20:25.07 | acz32 | its default function may not be too useful, but it can be very useful as a programmable key |
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| 20:26.10 | anddam | weird, efibootmgr doesn't allow me to edit current boot managers |
| 20:26.15 | anddam | but it does allow me to add a new one |
| 20:26.17 | halcyforn | hello. idk what editions of debian should work, my friend have old computer and dead windows i want give him easy live dvd/cd to run system to internet. sorry i dont have full specification, procesor amd 1,2 ghz old 512-1024 mb ram. this what i know what should work good on this parameters. |
| 20:26.43 | greycat | live CD distributions are different from installed distributions like Debian |
| 20:27.03 | halcyforn | live cd debian? |
| 20:27.07 | halcyforn | should work |
| 20:27.37 | acz32 | yes, it can work |
| 20:27.40 | acz32 | https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ |
| 20:27.45 | halcyforn | only what i know he need computer to internet look film on yt and to music nothing more. |
| 20:28.42 | halcyforn | lxde? debian? xfce? idk what window manager choose to this. only what i know he like win xp but not win 7 and newer versions. |
| 20:28.57 | halcyforn | i think lxde is most similar to xp or i wrong? |
| 20:29.27 | acz32 | yes, lxde is similar |
| 20:29.36 | greycat | has no clue... there was a link to a debian wiki "desktop enviroment" page earlier today, but that page didn't DESCRIBE any of the choices |
| 20:29.42 | acz32 | there's an XP clone, zorin, but it's not debian |
| 20:29.43 | teraflop | Xfce is good stuff too |
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| 20:30.19 | halcyforn | but xfce can confuse people what dont have to big knowledge. |
| 20:30.40 | halcyforn | for many people computer is run pres program and must work :D |
| 20:30.52 | acz32 | xfce isn't any more difficult than lxde |
| 20:31.31 | halcyforn | i know but if you sit always on old windows this can be big problem. for me better is fluxbox |
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| 20:32.03 | halcyforn | or kde if computer have many programs. |
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| 20:33.36 | halcyforn | in live cd i see something named cinnamon this is like kde or need less resources? |
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| 20:34.18 | orzo | i like gnome 3, but i have to admit their release decisions seem so brain dead as to cause me to wonder if it's sabatage |
| 20:34.22 | acz32 | slightly less than KDE, but not by much |
| 20:35.05 | acz32 | don't try to use cinnamon on 1GB RAM |
| 20:35.32 | halcyforn | ok last what i first time see is "mate" |
| 20:35.33 | shay_shay | kde runs better on old computers than gnome 3 based in my experience |
| 20:35.39 | halcyforn | this is the same. |
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| 20:36.14 | halcyforn | kde dont have shop features like gnome 3, new gnome is for tablet. touch screen. |
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| 20:36.40 | darkdevil | lacyforn cinnamon is from linux mint and its based on gnome |
| 20:36.47 | darkdevil | halcyforn* |
| 20:36.50 | orzo | i have a tablet and gnome3 does not |
| 20:36.59 | orzo | make it useable without the keyboard |
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| 20:37.10 | shay_shay | my friend uses gnome 3 on a surface, it works great |
| 20:37.22 | orzo | well |
| 20:37.33 | orzo | i have a convertible swivel top tablet thing |
| 20:37.34 | shay_shay | all gestures and widgets are big enough you can rab them easily with fingertip |
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| 20:37.39 | shay_shay | s/rab/grab |
| 20:37.42 | orzo | and i cant see how tablet mode is very useful |
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| 20:37.46 | teraflop | orzo: it works nice in e.g surface 3 pro |
| 20:37.56 | shay_shay | orzo: its not a mode, its the entire thing |
| 20:37.59 | orzo | i'm using x201t |
| 20:38.06 | orzo | i mean the mode of my computer |
| 20:38.08 | orzo | physically |
| 20:38.15 | teraflop | Ah |
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| 20:38.28 | shay_shay | well nobody said you have to give up your physical keyboard to use a touchscreen |
| 20:38.39 | orzo | shrug |
| 20:38.50 | shay_shay | as is aparent by all the laptops they sell these days with touchscreens |
| 20:38.58 | shay_shay | ...and keyboards |
| 20:39.01 | orzo | i use gnome3, i use the touchscreen and the keyboard, i'm just saying. it's underwhelming |
| 20:39.21 | anddam | what's wrong with this efibootmgr command to edit the label |
| 20:39.25 | anddam | https://gist.github.com/anddam/9bebb04a6c7f71543e49 ? |
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| 20:40.15 | kruug | following these directions: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_340.65 |
| 20:40.15 | halcyforn | hmm this mate window manager is based on gnome 2 this can use low resources. |
| 20:40.47 | kruug | no errors, but it doesn't look like the driver actually installed: https://paste.debian.net/176540/ |
| 20:40.48 | anddam | I don't seem to be able to edit values by hand, but following https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall did fix my debian boot entry, so something can write nvram |
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| 20:41.33 | kruug | What am I doing wrong? |
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| 20:42.27 | Mmrtn | Hello, I've a question. I've added a user to chroot.conf as "mmrtn /home/mmrtn", however when I connect to SSH, I can still access directories that aren't under the /home/mmrtn one. chroot module is enabled for SSH |
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| 20:43.25 | orzo | what package uses chroot.conf/ |
| 20:43.33 | greycat | it's a new one to me, too |
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| 20:43.52 | greycat | Probably because I have more sense than to try to set up "chrooted users". |
| 20:44.01 | Mmrtn | Seems like it was installed by default, it's in /etc/security/chroot.conf |
| 20:44.20 | orzo | not on my system |
| 20:44.22 | greycat | Mine doesn't have that. |
| 20:44.28 | Mmrtn | What would you recommend to me when I want to restrict access for users and all programs they run to a specific directory and its sub-directories? |
| 20:44.28 | orzo | dpkg -S /etc/security/chroot.conf |
| 20:44.28 | dpkg | Package: /etc/security/chroot.conf: Status: install ok installed |
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| 20:44.58 | Mmrtn | libpam-chroot: /etc/security/chroot.conf |
| 20:45.09 | orzo | mmrtn, use virtual machines or lighter weight virtualization |
| 20:45.39 | Mmrtn | I have a large amount of users, wouldn't a VM solution be excessive? |
| 20:45.43 | greycat | libpam-chroot: "This package includes a special (but not thoroughly tested) PAM module ..." |
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| 20:45.50 | orzo | well there's vservers and lxc containers |
| 20:45.58 | anddam | ah, it seems -L and -l cannot alter existing entries, they only apply when creating new ones |
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| 20:47.17 | Mmrtn | Actually thinking about it, I could perhaps solve it with regular chmodding. Make the directories owned by the users and simply setup all groups on the machine as group-read only |
| 20:47.21 | Mmrtn | for the admin users |
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| 20:47.53 | orzo | chroot is alright too if you don't really expect your users to go out of their way to misbehave i guess |
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| 20:48.12 | Mmrtn | I want it to be fool proof just in case |
| 20:48.29 | orzo | well chroot is not supposed to be used for security |
| 20:48.34 | Mmrtn | I think chmod would also solve the issue of users writing programs to access other directories |
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| 20:48.46 | orzo | certainly a chrooted root user can easily escape |
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| 20:48.58 | greycat | I don't know about "easily", but.... |
| 20:49.08 | orzo | heh |
| 20:49.12 | orzo | very easily |
| 20:49.52 | orzo | a few lines of code |
| 20:49.53 | NoImNotNineVolt | i don't know about "easily", let alone "very easily". |
| 20:50.07 | orzo | seriously? |
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| 20:50.33 | NoImNotNineVolt | linux isn't even "easily" usable without being stuck in a chroot. |
| 20:50.50 | NoImNotNineVolt | i think you're setting the bar for "easy" inconsistently with reality. |
| 20:51.06 | orzo | i don't think so |
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| 20:51.14 | kruug | Why isn't my nVidia driver actually installing? |
| 20:51.22 | NoImNotNineVolt | clearly you don't. but what you think is at odds with what the average person things. |
| 20:51.24 | greycat | Anyway, the point is, it is possible to escape one if certain resources are available. |
| 20:51.25 | NoImNotNineVolt | thinks too. |
| 20:51.33 | NoImNotNineVolt | agreed. |
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| 20:53.10 | orzo | http://paste.ubuntu.com/11119227/ |
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| 20:53.20 | orzo | there, now you too can be a l33t hacker and escape your chroots |
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| 20:54.55 | orzo | i think pasting 28 lines from a pastebin is "easy" |
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| 20:55.51 | NoImNotNineVolt | only a very small fraction of the human race is present in this channel to see your paste. |
| 20:56.11 | NoImNotNineVolt | and for the remainder, it is no easier now than it was five minutes ago. |
| 20:57.00 | orzo | i'm sure similar code could be foudn via google |
| 20:57.10 | orzo | "how to escape a chroot" or whatever |
| 20:57.23 | greycat | variable definition in the middle of a function, so it's some mishmash of C and C++ |
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| 20:57.35 | edakiri | What is the old image viewer with the rotating fish cursor? |
| 20:57.48 | NoImNotNineVolt | furthermore, an overwhelming majority of people have no idea what to do with that code. pasting it won't really do anything on its own. |
| 20:57.50 | edakiri | I think it is not in the repository. |
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| 20:58.06 | greycat | it's also calling chroot(2) so I think it has to be run as superuser |
| 20:58.27 | NoImNotNineVolt | well you just couple that with a priviledge escalation exploit, duh. easy. |
| 20:58.40 | greycat | (man page on Debian says "one with the CAP_SYS_CHROOT capability") |
| 20:58.55 | prince_jammys | I'm going to escape my chroot now. |
| 20:59.02 | orzo | my code needs superuser yeah, that's what i said, a root user can trivially escape |
| 20:59.08 | orzo | and now i've proven it |
| 20:59.42 | valdyn | all this shows is that chroot does not protect from root, its still fine for security to that extent |
| 20:59.59 | orzo | yeah |
| 21:00.07 | NoImNotNineVolt | indeed, you did say "root user". i missed that part. |
| 21:00.15 | NoImNotNineVolt | a root user can also rm -rf / |
| 21:00.23 | NoImNotNineVolt | i guess once out of the chroot :P |
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| 21:01.36 | orzo | it is probably harder for less priviledged users, true, but i think its widely considered best practice to not use chroot as security tool at all |
| 21:01.57 | valdyn | jails are practically just as lightweight |
| 21:02.06 | valdyn | so you can use that if you care... |
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| 21:02.22 | valdyn | i mean lxc or whatever |
| 21:02.30 | orzo | and i think Mmrtn does care |
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| 21:03.14 | Mmrtn | I think the best way to go will be through simple chmod |
| 21:03.19 | greycat | Fortunately, Mmrtn seems to have come to the realization that permissions are the correct solution. |
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| 21:03.31 | Mmrtn | just make the directories only accessible by their owners and group owners |
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| 21:03.47 | valdyn | theres a dpkg-reconfigure for that |
| 21:03.49 | edakiri | The answer is XV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xv_%28software%29 |
| 21:04.14 | valdyn | Mmrtn: "dpkg-reconfigure adduser" |
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| 21:05.20 | Mmrtn | Oh I didn't know that, thanks |
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| 21:06.02 | valdyn | Mmrtn: this will not modify preexisting user directories I think |
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| 21:06.28 | Mmrtn | I'm still just planning everything for the system before I launch it, so I don't have users on it yet |
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| 21:06.41 | Mmrtn | just want everything checked before I move hosts |
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| 21:06.50 | orzo | ironically, the VENUM vulnerability makes it possible to escape VMs now also |
| 21:06.55 | orzo | VENOM |
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| 21:07.05 | fluffyx | ive installed debian 8 - whats the easiest way to make a program start up at boot? program is redshift |
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| 21:07.20 | valdyn | orzo: not if theres no floppy |
| 21:07.33 | greycat | (or if it's patched) |
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| 21:07.55 | orzo | valdyn: that's not right, floppy controller code is exploitable for qemu/kvm regardless of specifying no floppy. |
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| 21:08.12 | edakiri | http://www.ethgen.ch/linux/debian.html.en |
| 21:08.18 | valdyn | orzo: its not reachable if theres no floppy emulated |
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| 21:09.50 | orzo | valdyn: that's directly contradicted by the discoverer, "For many of the affected virtualization products, a virtual floppy drive is added to new virtual machines by default. And on Xen and QEMU, even if the administrator explicitly disables the virtual floppy drive" |
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| 21:09.53 | orzo | source: http://venom.crowdstrike.com/ |
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| 21:10.21 | orzo | meaning qemu/kvm does not allow you to disable the exploit |
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| 21:10.29 | Akuw | i was upgrading from wheezy to jessie, but in some part i got --> E: Failed to fetch http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/p/ply/python-ply_3.4-5_all.deb Error reading from server. Remote end closed connection [IP: 128.31.0.66 80] |
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| 21:10.36 | Andril | any way to fix "unknown monitor"? |
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| 21:10.38 | Akuw | how can i star again? |
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| 21:10.53 | greycat | Akuw: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade |
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| 21:11.20 | Andril | i had it on the old box with shit card but not recognized on new box |
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| 21:17.05 | orzo | Akuw: just re-issue the command? |
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| 21:20.28 | Akuw | upgrading ... |
| 21:20.49 | Akuw | how can i know if debian is upgraded? |
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| 21:23.52 | orzo | when apt is finished |
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| 21:24.21 | orzo | $ cat /etc/debian_version |
| 21:24.23 | orzo | heh |
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| 21:33.14 | PercyB | Could someone pls. comment whether it makes sense? I had debian on an encrypted partition, loading besides some non-encrypted debian based distros via Grub. Grub got messed up, I repaired it, but now only the distros from non-encrypted partitions appear in the grub menü. |
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| 21:34.11 | PercyB | What I'm trying to do is mount the encrypted root partition, bind /dev, /proc and /sys, chroot into it, and run install-grub & update-grub |
| 21:34.25 | bolt | I've been having an issue lately where if I uninstall a package with apt-get, such as consolekit, which I just uninstalled, aptitude has it queued for install the next time I run it, so it gets back on if I don't watch out. What could cause this? |
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| 21:35.53 | orzo | i dont know |
| 21:36.00 | orzo | i use apt-get |
| 21:36.06 | PercyB | What I'm not sure about, whether I should also mount the separate boot partition, like mount /dev/sda4 /mnt/root/boot |
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| 21:36.45 | gusnan | bolt: Use only one of the tools. |
| 21:36.46 | orzo | it couldn't hurt to mount everything |
| 21:37.08 | valdyn | bolt: aptitude has its own package state database. so dont mix apt-get and aptitude use, decide, use one |
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| 21:37.24 | orzo | that sounds unfortunate |
| 21:37.29 | orzo | that we should have to choose one |
| 21:37.35 | bolt | very |
| 21:37.40 | bolt | i wasn't aware of this at all O.o |
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| 21:38.28 | orzo | maybe we should file bugs |
| 21:38.30 | orzo | heh |
| 21:38.40 | valdyn | its the only way how one can add certain features that the other has not yet implemented |
| 21:39.50 | ryouma | gusnan: but the dist upgrade requires apt-get. so if you use aptitude at all, then you are mixing! |
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| 21:40.16 | ryouma | (presumably you can clear out the state, so that you can use both) |
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| 21:40.44 | gusnan | huh, does dist upgrade requires apt-get? |
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| 21:41.38 | ryouma | PercyB: my understanding is limited, but i think you need to mount boot too, so that the grub menu can go there |
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| 21:42.14 | bolt | valdyn: by using a data format with optional fields and agreeing on mutual non-destruction of fields not understood |
| 21:42.19 | ryouma | gusnan: the doc says to use apt-get |
| 21:42.24 | valdyn | PercyB: update-grub generates /boot/grub/grub.cfg, so of course you need it |
| 21:42.32 | ryouma | gusnan: for wheezy to jessie |
| 21:42.43 | valdyn | bolt: what? |
| 21:42.54 | ryouma | so presumably just you clear out state, then use apt-get, then use aptitude |
| 21:42.57 | bolt | valdyn: though it may give unwanted results in some fringe cases, basic stuff such as which packages should be installed at a given time should be easily shared |
| 21:43.01 | FooDeas | Hi! I have to receive my ISP-IP by DHCP. This works as intended. But I want to prevent to get domain_name and domain_search option set. Any idea how to do that? |
| 21:43.06 | valdyn | bolt: in english: By not implementing certain features. |
| 21:43.45 | valdyn | bolt: i have no idea about the details and the reasoning, but im sure they arent causing breakage for fun |
| 21:43.50 | orzo | FooDeas: i think you can install resolvconf and configure it how you like |
| 21:43.51 | bolt | valdyn: kinda, but at the same time agreeing on a basic format, so that one does not destroy the other tools' data |
| 21:44.53 | valdyn | bolt: when aptitude sais package X wanted state is "installed", and you remove the package without aptitude, then the state is *preserved* in aptitude, nowhere it gets destroyed |
| 21:45.09 | bolt | valdyn: i agree that they probably have their reasons, but i will have to dig into this, as it smells slightly of a silly disagreement turning into unnecessary lack of cooperation, as these things tend to do |
| 21:45.24 | valdyn | bolt: probably |
| 21:45.46 | PercyB | ryouma, valdyn Thanks for commenting. Indeed I did mount the boot partition, also /proc, /dev and /sys, used chroot and made "update-grub". However what it did was, changing grub, only recognizing debian on the encrypted partition, but not recognizing any other OSes installed... Hmmm, I need some kind of different approach... |
| 21:45.52 | valdyn | bolt: thing is, apt-get is not meant for real use (originally) |
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| 21:46.09 | valdyn | bolt: and someone might insist on that |
| 21:47.22 | bolt | valdyn: if it's not meant for real use, why keep it? i'm certain aptitude could be coerced into outputting apt-get style feedback if called with the apt-get name |
| 21:47.26 | gusnan | ryouma: Yeah, I guess that is a recommendation and not a requirement. |
| 21:47.36 | FooDeas | orzo, I'm already using bind9 as dns server... But I think resolvconf won't be a solution too, since the name_server option is sent by the dhcp server of my ISP. |
| 21:47.42 | valdyn | bolt: because dependency resolution is very non-trivial |
| 21:47.54 | valdyn | bolt: and apt-get is often better, aptitude is often better too |
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| 21:48.33 | valdyn | bolt: i said "originally", thats probably 15 years ago |
| 21:48.41 | PercyB | Maybe I just take the menuentry from the grub.cfg (for the encrypted partition), fix grub for all the other OSes and try to paste that entry as custom config in grub.cfg... |
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| 21:49.25 | orzo | which do you use regular, valdyn? |
| 21:49.37 | valdyn | orzo: i use only apt |
| 21:49.38 | valdyn | orzo: i use only apt-get |
| 21:49.49 | orzo | me also |
| 21:49.58 | orzo | though i've used aptitude on rare occasions |
| 21:50.16 | FooDeas | Any other ideas how to prevent dhclient from setting the name_server option? |
| 21:50.24 | valdyn | aptitude finds solutions where apt-get finds none (or that used to be the case). Anyway, in such cases i rather specify the solution myself. |
| 21:50.52 | PercyB | Just cannot imagine why update-grub does not "see" the other OSes whereas I used that command several times before and it worked without an issue... |
| 21:50.57 | orzo | yeah, but you can run aptitutde to see suggestions and then cancel and use apt-get to implement them |
| 21:51.02 | orzo | heh |
| 21:51.11 | valdyn | PercyB: you can run os-prober directly yourself, see what it finds |
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| 21:51.40 | valdyn | orzo: yes, ive probably done that |
| 21:52.36 | PercyB | valdyn Hmmm, indeed, good idea, thx, will check it out. |
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| 21:54.10 | valdyn | FooDeas: chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf |
| 21:54.19 | valdyn | FooDeas: or learn how resolvconf works |
| 21:54.47 | valdyn | FooDeas: or learn about your dhcp client ;) |
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| 21:55.51 | PercyB | valdyn os-prober DOES see all the OSes installed - this is what update-grub is also supposed to do... :( |
| 21:56.01 | valdyn | FooDeas: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/dhclient-etcresolvconf-hooks/ |
| 21:56.06 | teraflop | inmutable bit ^ |
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| 21:56.32 | T0ast_phone_ | Hey |
| 21:56.35 | FooDeas | valdyn, chattr -i is a nice idea! Thanks. |
| 21:56.44 | valdyn | FooDeas: +i |
| 21:56.48 | teraflop | ^² |
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| 21:57.17 | valdyn | PercyB: see /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober |
| 21:57.23 | FooDeas | valdyn, doh... +i of course. |
| 21:57.24 | T0ast_phone_ | Why am I faced with a minimal grub terminal after installing? |
| 21:57.48 | valdyn | PercyB: and make sure this thing isnt just failing because your grub.cfg is not writable |
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| 21:58.11 | T0ast_phone_ | Do I need to do something in the BIOS? |
| 21:58.55 | teraflop | T0ast_phone_: do you have more than one hdd? |
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| 21:59.35 | careta | hi all |
| 21:59.37 | FooDeas | valdyn, I hoped to have a "supersede" option in isc dhcp client for unsetting the option. But that doesn't seem to be possible. I'll have another try with resolvconf or will write protect the resolv.conf file. Thanks to you and orzo!!! |
| 21:59.47 | T0ast_phone_ | I put / and /usr on an ssd and /home , etc on an hdd, teraflop |
| 22:00.25 | careta | i've built a custom kernel with make-kpkg as I've been doing for years, but now for some reason I can't boot because my root device is not found |
| 22:00.26 | teraflop | T0ast_phone_: may be you installed grub on the wrong disk |
| 22:00.32 | T0ast_phone_ | Oh no |
| 22:00.36 | careta | any hunches on what might be going on? anything changed in the past 2 months? |
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| 22:02.14 | teraflop | T0ast_phone_: btw that partition scheme sounds ... odd |
| 22:02.24 | T0ast_phone_ | ? |
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| 22:03.41 | teraflop | why /usr sepparated and why /home in the hdd, im just wondering why |
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| 22:04.56 | orzo | putting home on hd sounds reasonable to me. so you can have lots of space and it wont slow down application loading really |
| 22:05.11 | teraflop | orzo: not to me, but I respect all the opinions |
| 22:05.22 | orzo | well its how you use it |
| 22:05.29 | teraflop | me? |
| 22:05.40 | orzo | if you download lots of movies to your home partition, then you wouldnt really care to put that on ssd would you? |
| 22:05.49 | T0ast_phone_ | ^ |
| 22:05.53 | orzo | how you use home |
| 22:06.38 | teraflop | orzo: i do /home in the sdd all my dot files and folders are in the sdd, i just have Downloads in the hdd and a bunch of vms |
| 22:07.28 | orzo | shrug |
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| 22:08.14 | FooDeas | orzo, valdyn: I tried to setup resolvconf. But I can't find a option to _prevent_ setting "domain-search" - just adding this. Can you give me a hint?? |
| 22:09.04 | orzo | resolvconf is one of those things you mess with once and then forget how to use |
| 22:09.58 | orzo | my /etc/resolv.conf has localhost as nameserver and a permanently conigured search entry |
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| 22:10.49 | orzo | to do that, i seem to have put dns-nameservers 127.0.0.1 under an interface confiugred in /etc/network/interfaces |
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| 22:11.06 | PercyB | valdyn I did run 30_os_prober, it looks good. Am I now supposed to add the menuentries manually to grub.cfg? It did not do it automatically, I checked it |
| 22:11.18 | T0ast_phone_ | teraflop: if I install GRUB on the HDD, should that get first boot priority? |
| 22:11.44 | orzo | PercyB: the new grub has moved menu entries other than one to an "advanced" submenu, did you check there? |
| 22:11.45 | teraflop | T0ast_phone_: nope, it depends on your bios |
| 22:11.52 | teraflop | T0ast_phone_: boot order |
| 22:12.21 | T0ast_phone_ | O-ok |
| 22:12.51 | orzo | i have a lot of chroots, and used to have a big grub menu, but now it is very small and easy to conclude something broke at a glance |
| 22:12.55 | FooDeas | resolvconf gets his options from dhclient and writes these (order, other options configurable) to /etc/resolv.conf. To make sure you understand me right: I already set the dns-nameserver - that's not the problem. I want to UNset the domain-search domain, also received with dhclient. |
| 22:13.05 | teraflop | T0ast_phone_: if you think it is the issue, dont worry, just install grub on the other disk, you can always get rid of grub with dd if you want |
| 22:13.26 | T0ast_phone_ | Okay :3 |
| 22:13.31 | PercyB | orzo Do you after running 30_os_prober? I checked, even did a reboot, but no new menuentries - this is why I was thinking about adding everything os-prober found manually to grub.cfg |
| 22:13.32 | teraflop | T0ast_phone_: also tell tour bios to boot the ssd one firts |
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| 22:13.41 | PercyB | *mean* |
| 22:14.23 | jhutchins | PercyB: The os prober is supposed to be run by running update-grub. |
| 22:14.48 | orzo | PercyB: 30_os_prober automatic grub update foo works for me yes, i've not directly configured grub menu menus in a long time |
| 22:15.30 | orzo | i don't have encrypted volumes though |
| 22:15.43 | PercyB | jhutchins Well, somehow update-grub did not recognize the other OSes, while running os-prober does it very well. I have no idea, why, but update-grub just does not work as it supposed to be |
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| 22:16.14 | jhutchins | PercyB: What release? |
| 22:16.17 | PercyB | orzo os-prober does not "see" encrypted partitons |
| 22:16.30 | PercyB | jhutchins wheezy |
| 22:16.42 | orzo | maybe there's some configuration file left over that is preventing it from doing its default behavior |
| 22:17.28 | PercyB | orzo Well, I did use rescatux before, maybe it messed up a bit something, although I have to mention that it wonderfully fixed any non-encrypted grub menu entries |
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| 22:18.04 | FooDeas | orzo, hmm - i'll check the hooks... |
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| 22:19.13 | orzo | i dont really understand the domain search option anyway |
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| 22:20.34 | PercyB | orzo, jhutchins Great! I added those os-prober results to grub.cfg manually and it works like a charm. Thx for the comments. And also to valdyn. |
| 22:20.39 | dTal | I seem to be having some difficulty asking aptitude to install the recommends for a particular, already installed package. Despite overriding my system-wide config with --with-recommends, it still seems to think there's nothing to be done. |
| 22:20.41 | orzo | FooDeas: check this out, http://askubuntu.com/questions/265811/what-does-mean-dns-seach-option-in-etc-network-interfaces |
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| 22:20.54 | orzo | they're using dns-search to specify a search option |
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| 22:21.22 | teraflop | PercyB: i think the next time you update grub those manual entries will be erased? |
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| 22:21.47 | PercyB | teraflop Hmmm, yes, indeed, I'm afraid so |
| 22:21.48 | dTal | Is this expected behaviour? |
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| 22:22.03 | teraflop | PercyB: im pretty sure |
| 22:22.50 | teraflop | unless you drop a snippet with the entries in /etc/grub.d or whenever it is |
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| 22:23.11 | PercyB | teraflop Well, or I have to do the "add the entries manually" workaround again |
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| 22:23.21 | teraflop | PercyB: heh indeed |
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| 22:23.40 | FooDeas | orzo, Yep - that's the manual configuration to set the option. Since I have to use dhcp, I have to unset the option. Leaving the parameter empty or using '' doesn't work... |
| 22:24.32 | PercyB | teraflop It's a bit fiddling sometimes with encrypted partitions - "update-grub" does not see them automatically and now I wanted to get a menuentry for fedora but still could not figure it out how... |
| 22:25.27 | orzo | PercyB: put them in /etc/grub.d/40_custom / |
| 22:25.34 | PercyB | Hmm, I have an idea... will mount the encrypted root and try to run os-prober... maybe that way it will be recognized |
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| 22:25.52 | Andril | any way to fix unknown monitor? |
| 22:26.25 | PercyB | orzo Yes, I'm trying to create a custom entry but anaconda makes an encrypted install in a different way than the debian installer |
| 22:26.50 | teraflop | PercyB: ah I see i missed that part of your issue |
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| 22:26.53 | orzo | Andril: disconnect your monitor |
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| 22:27.33 | ryouma | i am struggling with the same type of problem for the last few weeks. i have a new hard drive, copied everything over, it has encrypted root and separate boot just like what i copied from, but i can't seem to get it to boot correctly. |
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| 22:28.13 | Brigo | ryouma, eufi? |
| 22:28.28 | teraflop | PercyB: ill give a try to the 40custom orzos suggestion, i used to do so and that entries persists between grub updates |
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| 22:28.51 | ryouma | Brigo: bios. i did the whole chroot thing, updated initramfs, etc. i finally got it to boot, but got these issues: http://paste.debian.net/176095/ |
| 22:29.31 | Brigo | ryouma, systemd+jessie? |
| 22:29.34 | Andril | orzo, for real? |
| 22:29.38 | ryouma | Brigo: wheezy |
| 22:29.47 | PercyB | teraflop Hmmm, good idea, indeed. In that way some fiddling could be saved. |
| 22:29.47 | Brigo | ryouma, sdc is the root device? |
| 22:29.50 | orzo | Andril: no, sorry |
| 22:29.56 | ryouma | Brigo: the point is to copy my wheezy installation to the new drive before upgrading to jessie |
| 22:30.06 | Andril | :( almost did it |
| 22:30.14 | ryouma | Brigo: sdc is just a usb device |
| 22:30.23 | Brigo | ryouma, why there? |
| 22:30.42 | ryouma | Brigo: not sure what you mean. sda is the new drive. sdb is the existing drive. |
| 22:30.52 | Andril | strange it worked on my old box but not on the new one |
| 22:31.04 | dTal | Reinstalling doesn't work either. Do I really have to purge the package and do it from scratch? Or should I just resign myself to installing them manually? |
| 22:31.20 | ryouma | Brigo: sdc has nothing to do with anything except after it, the booting did nothting for a minute. it works just fine on the existing installation. |
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| 22:31.28 | Brigo | ryouma, line nº1 and nº3. |
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| 22:32.32 | ryouma | Brigo: yeah, i am only reporting what booting said. for all i know, it did non-sdc-related things before it did nothing for a minute. sdc was just hte last message before it did nothing for a minute. |
| 22:32.48 | ryouma | by a minute i mean like 59 seconds |
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| 22:33.54 | Brigo | ryouma, from line 6, are you sure that UUID is right? |
| 22:33.57 | ryouma | Brigo: the sdc only refers to a kernel message while booting that says something like "... disks ... sda ... sdb ... sdc" (very rough description from memory) |
| 22:34.25 | Andril | this is truly not what i expected after the freeze |
| 22:34.42 | ryouma | Brigo: do you mean line 8? yes, i am sure it is right. it is in blkid. it works fine on old installation when mounted. |
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| 22:35.01 | Brigo | ryouma, you can try to get a photograph and paste it in http://picpaste.com/ |
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| 22:35.41 | Brigo | ryouma, you know that if you change the disk, the uuid changes? |
| 22:35.52 | ryouma | i don't think i have access to any camera that can do that, but it is a good idea |
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| 22:36.25 | ryouma | Brigo: the uuid refers to a partition on the new drive. i already changed the uuids and the /dev/sdxes and the /dev/disk/by-uuids |
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| 22:36.38 | ryouma | (in fstab and crypttab. i did not change anywhere else. should i?) |
| 22:36.44 | Brigo | ryouma, you haven't a movil with a camera? i can't belive it! :D |
| 22:36.51 | Brigo | ryouma, of course |
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| 22:37.25 | ryouma | where else must disk identifiers be changed? |
| 22:37.40 | FooDeas | orzo, I found a solution: I removed resolvconf and added another option to my dhclient.conf: 'supersede domain-name "-"' That gives me: "suspect value in domain_name option - discarded". :) |
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| 22:37.41 | Brigo | fstab, grub, at least. |
| 22:37.59 | Brigo | i don't know about encryption, so no sure about it. |
| 22:38.06 | ryouma | Brigo: i changed fstab and crypttab, and i think it shold be correct in both cases. |
| 22:38.18 | Brigo | and grub? |
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| 22:38.48 | ryouma | as for grub, where are you thinking i shuld change anything? |
| 22:38.49 | Brigo | did that uuid from the line 8 actually exists? |
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| 22:39.07 | ryouma | the dots are my dots, but the uuid exists in blkid's output and they are correct |
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| 22:39.55 | Brigo | ryouma, so why is it saying that uuid does not exists? |
| 22:40.00 | FooDeas | Thanks and bye!! |
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| 22:41.06 | ryouma | Brigo: i have no idea, but it is entirely unclear to me that that is the only thing it is saying. i do not understand the -r, for example. it could be that it is saying there are several possibilities, and it not existing is one. or it could be that it is unable to mount it or something. i ahve no idea and i am new to all this booting stuff. |
| 22:41.09 | Brigo | ryouma, check the kernel line in boot menu, press e key to edit and check if the uuid is right. |
| 22:41.25 | ryouma | is that /boot/grub/grub.cfg? |
| 22:41.31 | ryouma | (for the new drive) |
| 22:42.55 | ryouma | Brigo: here is the relevant part of /boot/grub/grub.cfg on the new drive: http://paste.debian.net/176590/ |
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| 22:43.53 | Brigo | ryouma, did you chroot into the system and did update-grub already? |
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| 22:43.58 | ryouma | Brigo: and that 150c... uuid refers to /dev/sda1 according to blkid. sda is the new drive. |
| 22:44.10 | ryouma | Brigo: yes, several times |
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| 22:47.29 | Brigo | ryouma, what is the uuid of /dev/mapper/toshiba-root (aprox) |
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| 22:51.22 | Brigo | ryouma, i think someone send a bug report about a problem like yours. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=660514 |
| 22:51.23 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/660514 in cryptsetup (closed): «LUKS encrypted system doesn't boot at all»; severity: normal; opened: 2012-02-19; last modified: 2014-11-09. |
| 22:51.34 | Brigo | The answer was: Closing as those setups should work with most recent cryptsetup packages |
| 22:51.34 | Brigo | from Debian/Jessie. |
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| 23:03.56 | dTal | How is it that, after installing python3-matplotlib, python3 has nothing and python2 now has numpy (but not matplotlib)? |
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| 23:05.25 | ryouma | Brigo: 15:47 <Brigo> ryouma, what is the uuid of /dev/mapper/toshiba-root (aprox) -- "b3f0...fc" |
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| 23:05.31 | SmashingX2 | Since touch (as it's name implies), should just update last mod date, why does it also tries to create a new file? Is it just a check written in the touch's code, or is it something else that causes a file to be created? |
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| 23:06.22 | Brigo | ryouma, and is that the root partition? |
| 23:06.38 | ryouma | Brigo: it is the root partition for the new drive, yes (sda3) |
| 23:06.52 | ryouma | Brigo: thanks for the bug report, but upgrading to jessie does not help me, because the purpose of the second drive is to run wheezy and jessie in parallel |
| 23:06.56 | ryouma | (one per drive) |
| 23:07.12 | Brigo | and why the line "search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 150c9109-4d70-4b48-9563-4d1f7b7f68be" has another root ? |
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| 23:07.25 | [RO]Daniel | is there a kde app similar to gnome disk utility? |
| 23:07.48 | ryouma | Brigo: is that supposed to be a root partition and not a boot partition? i do not know why. that is the menu entry that update-grub produced. |
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| 23:08.29 | Brigo | ryouma, mmm, not sure ... |
| 23:09.20 | acz32 | hey, mozilla.debian.net is finally up to date with iceweasel for release in case anyone was waiting |
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| 23:09.36 | acz32 | iceweasel release for stable* |
| 23:09.36 | ryouma | Brigo: on my working sdab, the congruent menu entry says a uuid that corresponds to boot, so i think it must be correctly a boot partition |
| 23:09.46 | ryouma | sdb* |
| 23:09.57 | Brigo | ryouma, good point :) |
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| 23:13.17 | ryouma | Brigo: this guy in the bug report is doing a whole bunch of things i am not (lvm, raid, gpt, uefi-capable), fwiw |
| 23:14.02 | Brigo | ryouma, yes but the error ouput is simmilar, then his problem could be the same. |
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| 23:14.20 | ryouma | yes, the error is similar |
| 23:14.29 | ryouma | includign the mysterious -r |
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| 23:15.26 | PercyB | ryouma I feel with you now... I'm just trying to get a menuentry for a correctly installed fedora and for the life of me it's just does not work (tried this way https://gist.github.com/drmats/4e6a6021d16a682dc068 , but it won't work) |
| 23:15.27 | Brigo | ryouma, i google ls/dev-r alert!, it is quit common. |
| 23:18.38 | ryouma | oh i got only 4 results with my search, one in german |
| 23:19.06 | ryouma | i can't upgrade to jessie until i fix this |
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| 23:19.29 | phix | ok I am having is issues after upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie |
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| 23:19.41 | phix | s/ is // |
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| 23:21.57 | ryouma | booting issues drive me nuts. |
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| 23:23.28 | ryouma | are there modules i should add or something (total guess) |
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| 23:26.11 | ryouma | (all of hte things i googled are supplying mdadm solutions and so on. but i am not using mdadm or anything like that.) |
| 23:27.15 | phix | lxc is not auto starting guests. This happened after I upgraded host to jessie |
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| 23:33.50 | Dan39 | i have 2 VPSs(the kind that do seem to allow adjusting clock), from different providers. both running debian 7. i have ntp running on both, but the clocks are about 25 seconds off. shouldnt they be near the same exact? |
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| 23:36.28 | Dan39 | i just stopped ntp on the one that was off and did ntpd -gq, and it "ntpd: time set +24.664157s" |
| 23:36.30 | Dan39 | wtf? |
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| 23:38.46 | Dan39 | god, when did this channel die :| |
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| 23:58.09 | nick[0] | any idea why the first echoed string of this command doesn't echo anything?: |
| 23:58.11 | nick[0] | ssh server bash -c 'echo init; echo ready; sleep 1; echo steady; sleep 1; echo go ; sleep 1; ping localhost' |
| 23:58.37 | abrotman | nick[0]: there is #bash |
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| 23:59.25 | nick[0] | abrotman: thanks, I'll give that a try. |
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