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| 00:01.00 | Twirl | well, someone should make a systemd call or w/e to fix that |
| 00:01.56 | naptastic | A systemd call to fix PHP? |
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| 00:02.13 | naptastic | resists the temptation... |
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| 00:04.25 | Twirl | no, to be able to kill out of control stdout or processes blowing up your terminal buffer |
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| 00:07.48 | soleluke | so i am trying to insall jessie on my desktop. I am haing issues getting my NIC drivers installed. Its a realtek 8168, get a message asking for them on reovable media, unpack the realtek-all.deb on a usb and insert, no luck |
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| 00:09.39 | naptastic | I remember having to do that one time for an Intel PRO/100 card. I couldn't do the "removable media" thing though, because the hosts were blades, and the only connections were ethernet and serial. So I had to modify the installer... |
| 00:09.42 | naptastic | ...never again... |
| 00:09.47 | naptastic | never again. |
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| 00:14.02 | francium | I just installed a new system with a btrfs filesystem, seperate home and root. How should I backup my system? What do people use? |
| 00:14.55 | ayypot | rsync |
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| 00:33.56 | awwal | concerning cpu & ram usage, html5 and adobe flash, regarding multimedia contents, are identical :( |
| 00:36.19 | awwal | and firefox /iceweasel playing html5 multimedia contents automatically when present in X website but not requested still not solved :( |
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| 00:48.05 | trysten | how can i edit a file such that changes are saved in memory or written somewhere else? |
| 00:48.31 | soleluke | do :w <newfilepath> in vim |
| 00:48.41 | soleluke | that will save a copy at <newfilepath> |
| 00:48.47 | trysten | I want to try to repair the partition table of a disk image |
| 00:49.23 | trysten | without changing the disk image, and it's absolutely huge |
| 00:49.28 | trysten | so i'd rather not make a copy |
| 00:49.33 | soleluke | i have no idea then |
| 00:49.45 | trysten | i was hoping i could remount that part of the file system |
| 00:50.58 | shadows | no such thing (that I know of) |
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| 00:51.48 | shadows | trysten: msdos partition info will be the first 512 bytes |
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| 00:52.04 | shadows | it's different if it is a GUID partitioning or other partitioning |
| 00:52.17 | trysten | shadows: good point. i could just backup the relevant areas |
| 00:52.29 | shadows | trysten: advise to backup all the data, though |
| 00:52.43 | trysten | but there's got to be a solution here. i know there are entire systems built around the same concept |
| 00:53.13 | trysten | i used to use computers that would "wipe" all changes to the disk at every reboot, but allowed nearly full access |
| 00:53.23 | trysten | they just didn't change the original files |
| 00:53.27 | shadows | not to belittle your intelligence here, I'm just speaking from experience having fouled things up badly more often than not, and with dozens (if not hundreds, I am sure) of attempts over the last 20 years |
| 00:54.09 | trysten | shadows: oh no.. absolutely. |
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| 00:54.11 | shadows | when it goes well, you're still betting that you are smarter than unknown data corruption and that's a bad bet |
| 00:54.19 | trysten | i wouldn't risk it unless i knew |
| 00:54.46 | trysten | no the storage medium is fine. it's an image of an cryptovirused disk from a server |
| 00:54.48 | shadows | trysten: what's the layout do you think? one single partition? |
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| 00:54.53 | shadows | oh |
| 00:55.06 | shadows | offers sympathy |
| 00:55.18 | shadows | there was no backup? |
| 00:55.28 | shadows | not even old backup? |
| 00:55.46 | trysten | shadows: i know right. |
| 00:56.13 | trysten | http://paste.debian.net/698181 |
| 00:56.31 | trysten | don't look at my disk identifier! that's personal info! |
| 00:56.39 | shadows | well, depending how that was actuated, an old backup with the disk label and partition layout would have what you're asking about |
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| 00:57.20 | shadows | how much is the ransom? |
| 00:57.41 | trysten | shadows: i'm guessing the file system is fine. it's just that my favorite utility is refusing to read the partition so i was going to let it rewrite the partition table on an image |
| 00:57.47 | shadows | may as well just have client pay it and tell them they could have avoided the cost by hiring you to help them backup their data |
| 00:58.19 | trysten | shadows: yes. that's where im at. however, i have some hope. the cryptovirus reached out to samba mounted folders and encrypted the contents |
| 00:58.39 | trysten | i'm hoping that i'll be able to "undelete" at least some of the files through ntfs recovery |
| 00:58.53 | shadows | interesting problems |
| 00:58.57 | trysten | fun fun :D |
| 00:59.46 | shadows | I think this is not any different than corrupted data though and some bad acting software |
| 01:00.17 | shadows | what I would do in those cases is update the company policy, and double down on backups |
| 01:00.29 | trysten | well like i was saying, i don't think it's corrupted at all, it's just not cooperating with testdisk |
| 01:00.35 | shadows | that it's "cryptolocked" just is a psychological issue |
| 01:00.47 | trysten | and technical.. |
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| 01:01.56 | shadows | not really |
| 01:02.42 | trysten | the files have been encrypted tho |
| 01:02.58 | shadows | it's the same scenario as a disgruntled employee except, you have to treat all of your current employees as if they are disgruntled ex-employees while they're still working for you |
| 01:03.10 | shadows | pretty great psychological quandary there |
| 01:04.12 | trysten | haha i see. you mean cryptovirus defense |
| 01:05.11 | trysten | https://sourceforge.net/projects/cowloop/ |
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| 01:24.03 | Zak718 | hello |
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| 01:25.10 | Zak718 | I am trying to split a large kw list "output.txt" into seperate 30k lists. I am using the command split -l 30000 output.txt but the output files do not have text extensions. How do i specify the output to be .txt files? |
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| 01:27.20 | AlexLikeRock | why i can not open https://www.debian.org/ ? |
| 01:27.42 | AlexLikeRock | The connection has timed out |
| 01:27.42 | AlexLikeRock | The server at www.debian.org is taking too long to respond. |
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| 01:27.57 | AlexLikeRock | any one have problems ? |
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| 01:28.04 | AlexLikeRock | im from mexico |
| 01:28.25 | Zak718 | works fine for me |
| 01:28.33 | LtL | AlexLikeRock: no problem here, it's your connection |
| 01:28.43 | AlexLikeRock | Mmmm :-( |
| 01:28.59 | jmcnaught | AlexLikeRock: works for me too. also there are "is it down?" websites you can use to check |
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| 01:30.38 | Zak718 | anyone have an answer for my split command question? |
| 01:30.42 | abrotman | Zak718: you use the rename script after the fact |
| 01:31.01 | AlexLikeRock | well |
| 01:31.02 | AlexLikeRock | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:33.43 | Zak718 | Alright, let me play with the rename command, I am noob =/ |
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| 01:35.59 | dTal | pypi_install is so great |
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| 01:36.40 | Sander^home | Hi. Do anyone know about a debian based operating system which has a virtualization wrapper around it, for easy upgrading? A desktop operating system version of coreos? |
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| 01:39.51 | dTal | although it would be nice if the built .deb didn't vanish if there's an install conflict. Oh, you had the Python2 version and they conflict? Too bad you'll have to build it all over |
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| 01:45.08 | trysten | shadows: i'm going to use LVM snapshot, which doesn't really help that much because i still have to make an additional copy of this gigantic image |
| 01:45.21 | trysten | but yeah, it'll do what i want. if you were curious |
| 01:46.03 | Sander^home | I would really want debian to be wrapped in lxc. |
| 01:47.08 | abrotman | So do it |
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| 01:49.17 | soleluke | so we ended up compiling the driver from source from the tarball on the realtek website |
| 01:49.21 | soleluke | adn it worked |
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| 01:50.52 | dvs | Strange, I thought the r8169 drive would work. |
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| 02:08.20 | jml2 | 8169 needs blobs |
| 02:08.27 | jml2 | iirc |
| 02:08.32 | jml2 | blob blob |
| 02:09.23 | naptastic | blobs |
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| 02:17.19 | Sander^home | abromat: How hard do you think it is? |
| 02:17.40 | Sander^home | abrotman |
| 02:17.48 | Sander^home | Sorry. |
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| 02:18.19 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: what are you trying to do with LXC? |
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| 02:20.16 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: I would like the containerization/isolation part of lxc would wrap the whole operating system inside a container, So I can make an iot cloud operating system which is secure for updates. |
| 02:20.28 | Sander^home | For a destkop operating system. |
| 02:20.53 | Sander^home | *just like an secure iot cloud operating system* |
| 02:21.28 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: iot? |
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| 02:21.48 | Sander^home | Internet of things, embedded devices which just works, with updates. |
| 02:22.14 | markybob | maybe i'm just old but i don't understand. use chroot. you want to wrap an entire OS? yeah. we've done that for decades. |
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| 02:23.13 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: you want the host OS to be "wrapped" by LXC somehow? How would that make it "secure for updates"? |
| 02:23.55 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: becouse the update mechanism would be outside of the container, in a secure place, where none can reach it. |
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| 02:24.27 | markybob | nope. still don't understand. i don't know if i'm old or if the new folks are stupid. |
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| 02:25.17 | Sander^home | markybob: Well. lxc provide more isolation than chroot. |
| 02:25.22 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: what do you think is going to reach the upgrade mechanism in Debian as it is now? Especially if all services are running in LXC containers? |
| 02:25.25 | Sander^home | for example seccom. |
| 02:25.55 | Sander^home | *seccomp* |
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| 02:26.54 | vlitzer | So Ive been trying to burn debian to a USB drive and my lenovo P50 with EFI fails to read it. Used rufus image creator, tried all the combinations, several different images, and so far the onlything that I can actually use to boot is Ubuntu :/ whats the trick to burning debian to a usb that will actually be bootable under EFI? Tried the dvd stable image, testing netinst, and both did not work :( |
| 02:27.00 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: the os would have a service outside of the container, to trigger an update. |
| 02:27.09 | markybob | vlitzer: you did it wrong. |
| 02:27.10 | Sander^home | from inside it. |
| 02:27.23 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: one huge container, not many small ones for each service. |
| 02:27.25 | markybob | !rufus |
| 02:27.25 | dpkg | rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>. |
| 02:27.34 | soleluke | for those curious, here is the blog post that got me up and going with my realtek 8168 card https://unixblogger.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/the-pain-of-an-realtek-rtl8111rtl8168-ethernet-card/ |
| 02:27.37 | markybob | vlitzer: are you burning with windows? |
| 02:27.42 | vlitzer | markybob: yes |
| 02:27.44 | markybob | !win32diskimager |
| 02:27.44 | dpkg | win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show our .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details. |
| 02:27.50 | vlitzer | alright then |
| 02:28.07 | soleluke | also, when i was burning my iso yesterday, i had much better luck with win32diskimager than any other tool |
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| 02:28.19 | markybob | vlitzer: fyi live doesn't support efi |
| 02:28.28 | Sander^home | markybob: If you see here, then I would want the container lockdown security part of lxc: http://www.janoszen.com/2013/01/22/lxc-vs-openvz/ |
| 02:28.31 | vlitzer | thats fine, I just want to install it |
| 02:28.45 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: oh. so the upgrade happens in a container, and then the host OS benefits from the upgrade somehow? |
| 02:28.48 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: ^ |
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| 02:29.02 | markybob | Sander^home: everything i've read about openvz makes me want to puke |
| 02:29.03 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: no, the other way around. |
| 02:29.12 | vlitzer | any trick for keeping a dualboot with debian under efi? |
| 02:29.32 | markybob | vlitzer: no. the installer will do it automatically |
| 02:29.32 | Sander^home | markybob: I agree, but lxc also got it. |
| 02:29.37 | markybob | vlitzer: if you don't use live |
| 02:29.58 | vlitzer | markybob: cool |
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| 02:30.02 | Sander^home | markybob: thats just a good comparision about which features is where. |
| 02:30.12 | eifrig | ernst1405 |
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| 02:30.37 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: the upgrade happens outside the container, which upgrades the content of the container (the operating system). |
| 02:30.47 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/SystemUpdates/ maybe in the future there will be some systemd-nspawn and btrfs magic to do something like what you want |
| 02:32.02 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: also what you're talking about would me changing files that running programs might have open, so stuff will still need to be restarted |
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| 02:34.49 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: yes, thats true, But if something is hacked, the locked down part outside the container could figure out that things changed, and force trough an fix. |
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| 02:36.05 | Sander^home | So this will have to be a cloud operating system, in the same was as chromeos and windows 10 is doing it. |
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| 02:36.20 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: ^ |
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| 02:36.37 | markybob | wait, what? chromeos in cloud? what is going on here? why? what? |
| 02:37.00 | naptastic | I was at OSCON last week. I am so buzzworded out, I just can't even. |
| 02:37.01 | naptastic | flees |
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| 02:37.46 | mutante | naptastic's client wasn't webscale |
| 02:38.38 | Sander^home | markybob: chromeos is a linux operating system with only chrome inside it, updates automaticly, was the first operating system who used linux kernel seccomp security feature to lock down the browser. |
| 02:39.22 | Sander^home | markybob: download it, or buy a chromebook or chromebox. |
| 02:39.34 | Sander^home | Untill then, its hard to imagine. |
| 02:39.48 | markybob | Sander^home: i know what chromeos is. i don't think you know what the cloud is and is just using "cloud" term as the marketing people do |
| 02:40.07 | markybob | i've had several chromebooks |
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| 02:41.18 | bird_control | how do I assign permissions to /media/user/HDDUSB/Movies ? chmod -R 777 is not helping... |
| 02:41.37 | markybob | bird_control: what's the filesystem? |
| 02:41.48 | Sander^home | markybob: Yeah, I guess I used that word a littlebit wrong. But it feels good when you can send a message to google and make them call you up to fix it. |
| 02:41.57 | bird_control | its an external hdd and I believe its NTFS... |
| 02:42.13 | markybob | bird_control: so that's why. ntfs has no idea what 777 is |
| 02:42.35 | markybob | bird_control: chown it |
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| 02:43.12 | Sander^home | markybob: have you tried it?:p |
| 02:43.45 | markybob | Sander^home: 02:40 < markybob> i've had several chromebooks |
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| 02:44.02 | Sander^home | markybob: I meant, tried sending in a support ticket..? |
| 02:44.08 | Sander^home | to google. |
| 02:44.15 | bird_control | markybob chown it. just chown /folder/folder.. ? |
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| 02:44.24 | markybob | Sander^home: of course |
| 02:45.04 | markybob | bird_control: no. you want to do chown -R user:user /folder/wtf |
| 02:45.55 | markybob | bird_control: as root/sudo obviously |
| 02:45.59 | Sander^home | markybob: ok :-) did you know that windows 10 have such a container techology? |
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| 02:46.16 | markybob | Sander^home: i don't know anything about windows. |
| 02:46.19 | Sander^home | Maybe wrong channel to ask about that :-p |
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| 02:46.45 | Sander^home | markybob: ok. did you still not understand my idea? |
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| 02:48.05 | vlitzer | markybob: it did not work, my bios is not letting me boot that image :( |
| 02:48.15 | markybob | Sander^home: i get the idea. i don't know how it works or why you want it. chroot was always good to me. *shrug* |
| 02:49.10 | markybob | vlitzer: you never told me what image you used. |
| 02:49.25 | vlitzer | debian stable 8.4 dvd from the main page |
| 02:50.19 | vlitzer | markybob: renamed the iso to img and burned it |
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| 02:50.28 | markybob | vlitzer: see, shit like that makes people irritated. main page if you click on download gives you multiarch netinst. so we can't trust what you say |
| 02:50.46 | markybob | not dvd |
| 02:51.25 | vlitzer | markybob: you are right, was booting to get the name: debian-8.40-amd64-DVD-1.iso |
| 02:51.48 | vlitzer | just typed that, so it might not be the exact name. |
| 02:52.52 | vlitzer | the weird part is, the ubuntu image I burned using rufus boots just fine, I wonder what I am missing to make the debian image work |
| 02:52.56 | Artemis3 | no legacy/CSM mode in that laptop? |
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| 02:53.16 | vlitzer | Artemis3: there is, but I want to keep EFI on |
| 02:53.25 | Artemis3 | are you dual booting? |
| 02:53.30 | vlitzer | thats the intention |
| 02:53.32 | markybob | the difference is debian uses hybrid isos |
| 02:53.37 | bird_control | I just chowned my external hdd. I am a chowner. |
| 02:53.40 | jmcnaught | vlitzer: you used win32diskimager this time? |
| 02:53.45 | vlitzer | jmcnaught: yes |
| 02:53.49 | Artemis3 | vlitzer, if you haven't installed the other OS, then it doesn't matter |
| 02:54.09 | vlitzer | Artemis3: currently only w10 and an empty space for my linux resides on my hd |
| 02:54.27 | Artemis3 | vlitzer, ok then you already have it installed, nvm. |
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| 02:55.33 | jmcnaught | vlitzer: what happens when you try to boot? do you get a chance to select the USB drive? is there an error? |
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| 02:55.52 | vlitzer | nothing, it just sits there like there was no boot medium |
| 02:56.38 | jmcnaught | vlitzer: does it work on a different computer? |
| 02:57.10 | vlitzer | I can try it on my x230, although it has traditional MBR since I disabled efi on that one |
| 02:57.31 | markybob | vlitzer: doesn't matter. he wants to know if the burn/usb is good |
| 02:58.00 | vlitzer | markybob: jmcnaught: yes trying now |
| 02:58.24 | Artemis3 | vlitzer, i assume you have secure boot disabled yes? |
| 02:58.44 | Sander^home | markybob: chroot removes the whole operating system on file level. seccomp does it on an application process level, so its impossible to get out of it, even if it runs on the same files. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seccomp |
| 02:59.32 | markybob | Sander^home: i'm not ignorant on what it does. i just don't understand the why. :P |
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| 03:00.34 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: yes, those guys making systemupdates might make the btrfs image snapshots outside of a seccomp container. |
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| 03:01.20 | vlitzer | image boots just fine on my x230. No, I did not disable secure boot |
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| 03:01.57 | dvs | that's why |
| 03:02.33 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: which guys? |
| 03:02.36 | markybob | vlitzer: that was for you btw |
| 03:02.39 | vlitzer | but I dont want to disable EFI |
| 03:02.48 | markybob | vlitzer: debain does not support secure boot |
| 03:02.53 | vlitzer | :( |
| 03:02.54 | Sander^home | markybob: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/SystemUpdates/ |
| 03:03.00 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: sorry^ |
| 03:04.05 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: oh yes. what they're talking about though is booting the computer into a special "upgrades" target that does the upgrades, and then reboots again into the normal target |
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| 03:06.31 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: I think its more sexy to use seccomp, and not require two reboots, but I love that option aswell. |
| 03:07.07 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: anything that changes will still need to be restarted |
| 03:08.03 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: Yes, but none will notice a diffrence from how it is now, with the upgrades, they will need to be restarted today too. |
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| 03:09.32 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: problem is when the operating system alters the upgrades target. |
| 03:10.10 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: what is the problem? |
| 03:10.10 | Sander^home | If its inside seccomp, you can make it not be able to alter the upgrades target. |
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| 03:11.08 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: compromised servers. |
| 03:11.23 | Sander^home | or even, desktop systems. |
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| 03:12.37 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: you're explaining the threat or attack vector here. Altering the upgrade target is the point of upgrades. Is there going to be some test that the upgrade was applied properly before the target it upgraded or something? |
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| 03:12.55 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: anyways, probably better to move this to #debian-offtopic since it's not really support |
| 03:13.23 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: ok. |
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| 03:16.22 | [Saint] | Assuming one or more of you do, how do you manage automatic decryption of an ecryptfs ~ volume with a key and passphrase based ssh login with password verification disabled in sshd? |
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| 03:16.54 | [Saint] | I have a system to manage this presently on a headless server, but I feel it to be...inelegant. |
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| 03:21.08 | [Saint] | My current solution is a small script at ~/.bash_login.d/10-ecryptfs.sh (~/.bash_login is modified to run all the scriptlets in .bash_login.d) that I have dropped in the unencrypted version of my user's $HOME, and this checks if it is an ecryptfs volume and if automount is true. |
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| 03:22.04 | [Saint] | Then it does ecryptfs-mount-private, and I get the prompt for the passphrase, then it drops into the decrypted home and begins sourcing my dotfiles and such. |
| 03:23.36 | [Saint] | I guess what I'm asking is, "Is there a better way to do this?", given the caveats of: ssh based login, ssh key+passphrase, password based login disabled, headless environment. |
| 03:28.24 | shadows | trysten: good luck! |
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| 03:42.42 | jmcnaught | [Saint]: seems like ecryptfs-utils comes with a pam module, have you tried using that? |
| 03:45.41 | [Saint] | yes, but there's a few bugs against it marked as WONTFIX as far as I recall. It would work if I was using password based login on ssh, or if I didn't use an encrypted home volume, or possibly if I was using a full desktop environment. |
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| 03:52.33 | [Saint] | jmcnaught: My Google Fu is /fairly/ strong, and everything I find on the subject suggests that with the setup I describe that automatic decryption over ssh in any seamless fashion isn't possible. |
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| 03:53.32 | [Saint] | I understand why this is the case, I was just wondering how other people manage this, as I feel like I can't be the only one with key and passphrase based ssh login with password disabled and a ecryptfs home volume. |
| 03:53.35 | jmcnaught | [Saint]: i don't know i've never used ecryptfs. is the problem that you use keys for SSH and the pam module needs a password? |
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| 03:53.54 | [Saint] | Right. |
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| 03:54.50 | [Saint] | So I was wondering how people automate handing off to encryptfs-mount-private after ssh authentication and then drop into the newly decrypted home and source the environment dotfiles. |
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| 03:55.11 | [Saint] | I already have a solution for this that is functional, but it feels ugly to me. |
| 03:55.28 | [Saint] | So I am more than curious, lets say, about any solutions for this that others may have. |
| 03:55.49 | jmcnaught | would requiring key AND password be acceptable? |
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| 03:57.27 | [Saint] | Hmmm. I guess I could do key+passphrase+password, in typical 'thinking about it too hard' fashion I had not actually considered that. |
| 03:58.48 | jmcnaught | you could sell it as two factor authentication :) |
| 04:00.15 | [Saint] | Hah. I already do have yubikey based 2FA as well. As well as user/hostname/MAC and port knock code checking. |
| 04:00.39 | [Saint] | I doubt the latter could really be thought of as additional factors though. |
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| 04:00.54 | [Saint] | But my ssh is somewhat militant, yes. Indeed. |
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| 04:10.46 | [Saint] | Thanks for not being #ubuntu, by the way. |
| 04:11.09 | [Saint] | First response I get is polite, genuine, and actually helpful. |
| 04:11.30 | [Saint] | The exact opposite of #ubuntu - I was kinda iffy about even asking here. |
| 04:11.52 | jmcnaught | this is a decent channel for sure |
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| 04:22.13 | Sander^home | jmcnaught: how do I set ProtectSystem= in systemd to full? or is this enabled by default? |
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| 04:26.20 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: ProtectSystem= is a directive you can use in service units. "man systemd.unit" talks about units in general, and shows how to use foo.service.d directories to add/override directives for a unit |
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| 04:27.14 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: "man systemd.service" for more specific information about service units, and check the "SEE ALSO" sections for each man page too |
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| 04:28.41 | jmcnaught | Sander^home: if you're brand new to systemd the blog series is a good introduction: https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/#thesystemdforadministratorsblogseries |
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| 05:30.14 | sukhoi | hi |
| 05:30.28 | yurakeshi | hello =) |
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| 05:33.20 | galex-713 | are guile-sdl and guile-ncurse packaged with guile? |
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| 05:46.50 | darxmurf | hi all |
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| 06:27.32 | notadrop | Hi, how close is gNewSense to Debian? I understand it to be Debian sans non-free things and Debian branding. |
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| 06:30.39 | mutante | notadrop: pretty much and minus some docs about non-free stuff afaict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNewSense#Versions |
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| 06:31.11 | notadrop | mutante, if I installed gNewSense and came here for support, would I be laughed out of the room? |
| 06:31.18 | notadrop | #gnewsense has 22 users |
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| 06:31.54 | mutante | notadrop: i'm afraid it would be an issue yea, maybe #fsf ? |
| 06:32.16 | notadrop | mutante, okay, but nobody there uses it :/ |
| 06:32.21 | notadrop | I think I'll go with GuixSD |
| 06:32.27 | notadrop | why not go full GNU? |
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| 06:32.50 | mutante | notadrop: Debian GNU/Hurd ?;p |
| 06:33.19 | notadrop | mutante, that is the goal eventually :D |
| 06:33.24 | notadrop | oh wait |
| 06:33.28 | notadrop | I meant Guix GNU/Hurd |
| 06:33.42 | notadrop | mutante, I wonder if Hurd even supports my hardware |
| 06:33.55 | mutante | notadrop: i ask about it about once every 2 years for fun |
| 06:33.59 | notadrop | heh |
| 06:34.05 | mutante | similar to using coreboot |
| 06:34.15 | notadrop | I use the Libre fork of coreboot, #libreboot |
| 06:34.33 | mutante | oh, nice |
| 06:34.40 | notadrop | 100% FOSS running on this machine, except for CPU microcode courtesy of Intel |
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| 06:34.43 | notadrop | no nonfree firmware |
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| 06:34.47 | notadrop | or software. |
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| 06:37.28 | themill | except for the firmware that's already on every single chip |
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| 06:41.13 | neoncortex | hey, someone tell to the xombrero package maintainer to add gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad as dependecy, please, i have lost hours to discover why youtube was without audio because this -.- |
| 06:41.45 | notadrop | themill, Libreboot is a replacement for the system firmware |
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| 06:42.38 | mutante | neoncortex: maybe type "reportbug" , select the xombrero package, paste that line in there |
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| 06:43.19 | themill | notadrop: there's firmware on just about every non-trivial chip in your machine including video, sata, usb controller, network controller, ..., you just don't see it from userspace or kernel space. Doesn't mean it's not there though. |
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| 06:43.37 | notadrop | themill, yeah |
| 06:43.42 | notadrop | unfortunately |
| 06:43.51 | notadrop | this is better than a locked down new computer, though |
| 06:43.56 | notadrop | progress is better than nothing |
| 06:44.15 | jelly | it's not progress, it's false hope |
| 06:44.31 | neoncortex | mutante: oh, cool |
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| 06:47.16 | notadrop | jelly, okay, you stick with that attitude |
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| 06:47.28 | notadrop | we'll see whose attitude gets the free software movement further... |
| 06:47.51 | themill | no, pretending that you don't have firmware because you're not loading it from userspace does nothing |
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| 06:48.02 | notadrop | well, okay, I do have firmware |
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| 06:48.31 | themill | all it does is encourage manufacturers to go back to the bad old days where you had to flash firmware in a potentially brick-making manner and it was a big deal to upgrade firmware. |
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| 06:48.49 | notadrop | themill, does RMS's computer have entirely free firmware? |
| 06:48.56 | sumi | hello |
| 06:49.01 | themill | unless he's been making his own silicon, no. |
| 06:49.10 | notadrop | well |
| 06:49.23 | notadrop | I rest my case |
| 06:49.38 | notadrop | if I'm not *hardcore* enough then neither is he |
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| 06:50.35 | themill | so that's my point, stop trying to pretend you're a hero. You've got a box and it's running stuff just like everyone else |
| 06:51.20 | notadrop | fair enough. |
| 06:52.27 | notadrop | personally, I think the more of the system that is FOSS and able to be modified by the user, the better. false hope? maybe. |
| 06:52.39 | notadrop | FOS S/H |
| 06:53.07 | notadrop | you're right, though. FOSS is nice, but we need FOSH |
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| 07:16.01 | thekrynn_ | anyone know why screen creation times tend to change ever so slightly when invoking screen -ls |
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| 07:19.05 | CutMeOwnThroat | I couldn't say that they do |
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| 07:41.29 | jim | can someone help me set up a oackage proxy (at minimum, a link describing it)... I want to be able to suggest it to people installing linux so they don't have to download packages twice |
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| 07:43.17 | jim | I'll check on oftc |
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| 07:52.06 | CutMeOwnThroat | jim, why'd they download packages twice? |
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| 07:52.15 | CutMeOwnThroat | oh well... then on oftc |
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| 07:58.58 | chalcedony | i'm on the pretty blue install screen for debian 8 |
| 07:59.04 | chalcedony | on the usb stick |
| 07:59.17 | chalcedony | but when i do the installation it freaks out and wants a cd-rom |
| 07:59.35 | chalcedony | is debian 8 not able to be installed from a usb? |
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| 07:59.49 | fireba11 | chalcedony: of course it is |
| 08:00.00 | chalcedony | fireba11, ty for replying |
| 08:00.08 | chalcedony | what do i need to do to make it do that? |
| 08:00.12 | babilen | How did you write the image to the USB stick? |
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| 08:00.31 | chalcedony | babilen, with Rufus on my windows 7 laptop. |
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| 08:01.07 | fireba11 | https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/ch04s03.html.en |
| 08:01.09 | chalcedony | it all looked pretty good until i got past 'keyboard' |
| 08:01.11 | fireba11 | chalcedony: that works fine too :-D |
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| 08:01.31 | babilen | chalcedony: Hmm, no experiences with this, but I know that some tools (such as unetbootin) break the installer. On Windows we generally recommend win32diskimagner |
| 08:01.49 | babilen | http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ |
| 08:01.55 | fireba11 | chalcedony: rufus works i'm using it myself. (netinstall image) |
| 08:02.05 | chalcedony | fireba11, ok then that's not it |
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| 08:02.29 | babilen | It might still be worth a try (usb sticks are different) |
| 08:02.55 | babilen | I mean it would, at least, allow us to rule out that |
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| 08:04.38 | chalcedony | fireba11, yes that's what i have |
| 08:04.57 | chalcedony | the gigabyte board is new. should not have other problems |
| 08:05.16 | chalcedony | is the regular install likely to not see usb? |
| 08:06.05 | fireba11 | chalcedony: on a skylake boards that's a possibility |
| 08:06.18 | chalcedony | skylake? |
| 08:06.31 | fireba11 | newest isomething generation |
| 08:06.36 | chalcedony | ah |
| 08:06.50 | chalcedony | let me go find a dvd i guess |
| 08:07.09 | chalcedony | this worked before. it ought to work. |
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| 08:30.55 | [Saint] | Is anyone here familiar with the cryptsetup early ssh initramfs hooks? |
| 08:31.37 | [Saint] | It seems to be a fairly elegant solution to remote unlocking a server with full disk encryption in early boot. |
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| 08:33.41 | [Saint] | But it involves the root user being active, which is mildly annoying. Though perhaps I could add locking the root password as a startup script and unlocking it as a reboot/shutdown script? |
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| 08:34.13 | [Saint] | This is what I'm talking about by the way: |
| 08:34.14 | [Saint] | https://github.com/lhost/pkg-cryptsetup-debian/blob/master/debian/README.remote |
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| 08:47.36 | rudi_s | [Saint]: What do you mean with "But it involves the root user being active"? |
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| 08:48.27 | [Saint] | rudi_s: sorry, that was unnecessarily vague stream-of-consciousness rambling wasn't it? |
| 08:48.39 | [Saint] | I mean, it requires that I unlock my root password. |
| 08:48.50 | [Saint] | which I don't generally do. |
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| 08:49.27 | rudi_s | Still confused. The unlocking happens via ssh-key. How is "root" involved? |
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| 08:53.37 | CutMeOwnThroat | seems he's confused, not you |
| 08:54.22 | CutMeOwnThroat | but maybe what he means is that he normally completely disables login for root from outside |
| 08:54.58 | CutMeOwnThroat | which still doesn't have anything to do with this :-/ |
| 08:55.18 | rudi_s | True. You must use root@, but only to unlock the disk and it's not the same root than the one inside the system. |
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| 08:57.12 | CutMeOwnThroat | it's a nice idea... |
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| 08:57.23 | CutMeOwnThroat | still need someone to press the button after a power failure |
| 08:58.03 | CutMeOwnThroat | and I wonder if it's worth the effort for the one time it may become relevant a year |
| 08:58.06 | rudi_s | Unless the BIOS supports boot on power failure. |
| 08:58.19 | rudi_s | But yeah, nice to have. |
| 08:58.51 | CutMeOwnThroat | or wake on lan |
| 08:59.04 | CutMeOwnThroat | which it probably does |
| 08:59.37 | CutMeOwnThroat | haven't set that up, though |
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| 09:00.32 | telecity | [Saint]: yeah it ran the dropbear sshd |
| 09:00.34 | CutMeOwnThroat | and you need root on a machine on the same net that is already on to send wake-on-lan, I think |
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| 09:00.58 | telecity | it involves encrypting the rootfs with cryptsetup/luks |
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| 09:01.29 | telecity | kernel starts, tries to launch init, rootfs being encrypted |
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| 09:02.51 | telecity | dropbear sshd spawns, you ssh into the box, luksOpen and the boot process continues |
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| 09:03.38 | telecity | i don't see any problem allowing root with PKI |
| 09:04.11 | telecity | custom port, root with pki |
| 09:04.24 | telecity | modify the login prompt as well |
| 09:04.40 | telecity | use ECDSA |
| 09:04.46 | telecity | what could go wrong? |
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| 09:05.34 | six86 | Anyone expert in installing/preseeding? I managed to get a uefi preseeded stick to installing, but a script called "60remove-live-packages" is removing the packages I install during preseed and also big parts of ubuntu... |
| 09:05.38 | unborn | is it okay to install .deb file by just clicking on it? or shall I use dpkg -i *.deb command? I mean what is better or where is difference? |
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| 09:06.30 | telecity | [Saint]: https://kiza.eu/journal/entry/697 |
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| 09:07.22 | telecity | unborn: cli would always be better I suspect, but probably no difference |
| 09:07.35 | telecity | unborn: as the UI is a wrapper over CLI, most likely |
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| 09:08.24 | unborn | thank you for explanation telecity im just about to install wifi driver but did not know if there is some special differences about the way how it installs it.. |
| 09:08.30 | telecity | unborn: so better support in CLI in terms of consistency in displaying err messages by default |
| 09:08.44 | unborn | true |
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| 09:09.15 | telecity | unborn: like i said it's probably the same, unless there'd be bugs in the UI.. just that CLI might be more informative / more easy to debug |
| 09:10.36 | telecity | six86: no expert at all, but you can disable the script? |
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| 09:11.34 | six86 | telecity: How. And where does it come from in the first place? I can't find it in the iso file. And after all, why is it uninstalling parts of the system? |
| 09:12.01 | telecity | six86: how did you find out that it was responsible in the first plac? |
| 09:12.02 | telecity | e* |
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| 09:13.00 | six86 | telecity: I can see it in de /var/log/installer/syslog file. Even after my late-command script there is a apt call that removes almost everything from the system. And above it is stated that the mentioned script is executed. |
| 09:13.20 | telecity | six86: path mentioned? |
| 09:14.47 | six86 | telecity: /usr/lib/finish-install.d/60remove-live-packages |
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| 09:16.14 | telecity | six86: how did you search the image |
| 09:18.37 | six86 | telecity: Opened with ark, looked throud the initrd files ans also extracted the squashfs image |
| 09:19.37 | telecity | six86: path was missing? tried to binary grep as well? |
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| 09:20.49 | six86 | telecity: No, did not try that. I would like to understand why it is removing almost the whole system... Had no problems with 12.04 with a similar preseed setup. |
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| 09:22.18 | six86 | telecity: http://pastebin.com/czgk6pNM |
| 09:22.29 | six86 | Thats the excerpt of the installer log |
| 09:23.18 | JohnBalushy | I just installed debian jessie with the default gnome shell DE. It's not a necessity but I was just wondering is it usual that I don't have an option to turn on background transparency in the terminal? |
| 09:23.28 | JohnBalushy | * Gnome Terminal to be specific |
| 09:24.39 | JohnBalushy | Under edit-Profile Preferences->Colors there is usually an option to turn off the transparent backgrounf. |
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| 09:31.39 | [Saint] | telecity: I ended up settling on this nice little wrapper script to set up the environment for dropbear early ssh |
| 09:31.41 | [Saint] | https://github.com/chadoe/luks-triple-unlock |
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| 09:59.13 | fireba11 | [Saint]: missted most of the conversation, was that for unlocking luks via ssh? |
| 10:00.24 | fireba11 | tried that once and didn't get it working with dropbear |
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| 10:05.37 | k_sze[work] | Hi guys. |
| 10:05.45 | k_sze[work] | What's the proper way to make a service start at reboot? |
| 10:06.10 | k_sze[work] | My colleague has already defined the init.d script, systemd unit, and whatnot. |
| 10:06.19 | k_sze[work] | We're only missing one thing it seems. |
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| 10:13.19 | teraflops | k_sze[work]: a systemd unit file sounds right |
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| 10:14.45 | fireba11 | k_sze[work]: the old way with init.d was running update-rc.d for it |
| 10:15.06 | k_sze[work] | hmm, maybe not the systemd unit file after all. |
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| 10:15.19 | fireba11 | not 100% sure about systemd, haven't really used it yet |
| 10:15.51 | hexnewbie | Aren't there hooks so that update-rc.d enables the systemd unit as well, while "systemctl enable" also has a hook to enable the init script in case you switch back? |
| 10:16.35 | hexnewbie | Otherwise, update-rc.d and/or insserv for the init script (those confuse me a little bit), and "systemctl enable ..." for the systemd unit |
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| 10:17.19 | teraflops | in my exprience a systemd unit file is way simpler than an initd script |
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| 10:18.05 | hexnewbie | That's true, however I already have a skeleton init script I copy, so it is already easy enough :) |
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| 10:42.51 | k_sze[work] | So if it's just an old-school init.d script, I should use update-rc.d? |
| 10:47.33 | chalcedony | i can't get the realtek drivers to burn to the cd. the box won't see the usb |
| 10:47.59 | chalcedony | imgburn should make the dvd. really. what do you set? |
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| 10:57.03 | FNTM-U3 | Hi |
| 10:57.10 | FNTM-U3 | I want to edit a GTK2/3 theme. |
| 10:57.16 | FNTM-U3 | all and all it is good but I want to change the font of it. Yes the font. it is hard coded per say in the theme. I cant change it with lxappearance or .... |
| 10:57.35 | FNTM-U3 | any software to use of the theme or what are the files I should be editing by hands? |
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| 11:10.31 | unborn | does gnome in debian use compiz? |
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| 11:15.33 | teraflops | unborn: nope, it uses mutter |
| 11:16.20 | unborn | thanks teraflops |
| 11:16.25 | teraflops | np |
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| 11:18.22 | unborn | man if kazam will works I can finally remove ubuntu from desktop |
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| 11:19.58 | teraflops | ,v gtk-recordmydesktop |
| 11:19.59 | judd | Package: gtk-recordmydesktop on amd64 -- squeeze: 0.3.8-3; wheezy: 0.3.8-4.1; sid: 0.3.8-4.1; jessie: 0.3.8-4.1; stretch: 0.3.8-4.1 |
| 11:21.11 | teraflops | unborn: what does kazam do that e.g recordmydesktop doesn't? |
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| 11:21.23 | unborn | teraflops: ah I dont like that software.. had much issues in past with it.. kazam no issues at all |
| 11:21.28 | teraflops | ,v recordmydesktop |
| 11:21.29 | judd | Package: recordmydesktop on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b1; squeeze: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b1; stretch: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b1; jessie: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b1; sid: 0.3.8.1+svn602-1+b1 |
| 11:22.25 | jim | having installed the grub-efi-amd64 package, how would I get it to build an image suitable for writing to the ESP? |
| 11:22.32 | teraflops | unborn: hmm I dont think you need _any_ sw for recording the desktop |
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| 11:23.11 | unborn | teraflops: I do.. there is not natively build anything to record video and audio into one file |
| 11:23.32 | teraflops | unborn: ffmpeg does it also gstreamer |
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| 11:23.53 | teraflops | you can grab the audio too of course |
| 11:24.25 | unborn | teraflops: ah yes.. I tried those, quality was very low I mean image quality but perhaps I've done it wrong |
| 11:24.25 | teraflops | unborn: there's like 1k examples on the internet |
| 11:24.46 | teraflops | unborn: anyway I was just saying |
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| 11:28.51 | teraflops | unborn: e.g http://ix.io/KH6 I use gstreamer just for fun you can tune the quality playing with the quantizer options |
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| 11:31.52 | unborn | thank you teraflops I am going to try once netinstall finish.. heh if that works I will be happy |
| 11:32.09 | teraflops | ;) |
| 11:32.43 | unborn | gdm3 or lightdm? eh |
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| 11:33.07 | unborn | first time installing gui on debian :D |
| 11:33.19 | six86 | removed my late-command file... Still no nano, man etc. Something goes wrong at the instalaltion here |
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| 11:34.06 | teraflops | lightdm sounds lighter (regarding deps), if youre going to install gnome then gdm is fine I suppose |
| 11:34.12 | Rephlexie | unborn, I use light or slim personally, less deps |
| 11:35.01 | unborn | im installing gnome and cinnamon so I can compare which would be better for my every day usage.. |
| 11:35.25 | unborn | so I am going to try gdm3 - I guess I can always re-install |
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| 11:39.11 | teraflops | six86: how did you install debian? expert mode? what options did you pick? |
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| 11:57.56 | mtnman | hello |
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| 12:01.09 | mtnman | how can i find out the identifier (hciX) for a bluetooth headset so i can configure it with bluez-simple-agent? |
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| 12:20.43 | AlexPortable | Which packages do I need to run firefox fullscreen? |
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| 12:22.02 | dTal | The F11 key? |
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| 12:24.14 | AlexPortable | pressing f11 on the commandline won't do anything |
| 12:24.26 | AlexPortable | do I need a window manager? |
| 12:24.37 | unborn | okay strange.. I cannot add the printer.. seems to me that adding printer something crashes |
| 12:28.36 | unborn | okay.. that happens only in cinnamon not on gnome so its all cool |
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| 12:30.21 | petn-randall | AlexPortable: A window manager does help. What are you trying to achieve? |
| 12:31.19 | six86 | I just don't get it... As soon as I use a preseed file my setup results in a crippled ubuntu server without "man" or "nano" or... |
| 12:32.30 | petn-randall | six86: Sounds like you should be asking in #ubuntu. |
| 12:33.11 | six86 | petn-randall: I did. for 2 days, but seems like there's nobody around with knowledge of preseeding |
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| 12:33.28 | petn-randall | shrugs. |
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| 12:34.31 | petn-randall | six86: We can't help you with Ubuntu server in here. It's probably using different versions of tools, anyway. |
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| 12:35.13 | six86 | I think preseeding is pretty much the same in debian and ubuntu. |
| 12:35.54 | teraflops | six86: not at all starting by the installer |
| 12:35.59 | six86 | used this preseeding for 2 years so something must have changed... But I will keep asking in #ubuntu ... |
| 12:36.09 | petn-randall | six86: It's still off-topic in here, sorry. |
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| 12:41.52 | abrotman | six86: there used to be #ubuntu-server, not sure if that still exists, good luck |
| 12:42.14 | six86 | abrotman: thx |
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| 12:46.20 | exfalso | hi, i'm trying to create a package that requires g++ >= 5 to build, however the launchpad build cannot find it if i specify it in Build-Depends with g++-5 (>= 5.2.1-10). Anyone knows how to do this? |
| 12:46.59 | exfalso | here is the log of the build https://launchpadlibrarian.net/261364955/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.etcpak_0.5-2_BUILDING.txt.gz |
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| 12:51.49 | unborn | debian with gui is so awesome however does anyone can recommend me to replace activities with normal menu like? |
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| 13:04.13 | Aorious | Hi, I have two hosts running Debian on the same WLAN, which can ping each other. However, with file sharing turned on, they do not show under nautlius' 'Browse Network'. How do I fix this? |
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| 13:05.20 | Aorious | Are there any options that do not involve using samba? |
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| 13:15.32 | teraflops | Aorious: what do you type in nautilus? also, do you have gvfs-backends package installed? |
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| 13:17.56 | Aorious | teraflops, I have base systems, nothing installled. I type nothing into nautilus, instead clicked 'Browse Network', on the places side panel. I am looking for the default GUI method to share files between linux hosts. |
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| 13:18.36 | Aorious | Click 'Browse Network', after enabling sharing in the gnome settings. |
| 13:18.40 | teraflops | Aorious: well you have gnome, haven't you? |
| 13:18.51 | Aorious | teraflops, yes. |
| 13:19.19 | Eryn_1983_FL | hi guys |
| 13:19.38 | Eryn_1983_FL | for some reason i got two ips on my desktop here, and it is screwing with my puppet updates, |
| 13:19.42 | Aorious | teraflops, *I have nothing extra install, apart from the base system. |
| 13:19.52 | Eryn_1983_FL | how i removed them? |
| 13:20.23 | teraflops | Aorious: heh gnome is not _base_ at all |
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| 13:21.18 | teraflops | Aorious: tried typing in nautilus smb://servername(or the ip address)/share? |
| 13:21.19 | Aorious | Aorious, Oh, *default install of the desktop stable iso. |
| 13:21.44 | Eryn_1983_FL | ok |
| 13:22.14 | Eryn_1983_FL | it seems that when i bring it down then then ifup eth0 i get my static, but then i restart networking /etc/init.d/networking i get two ips, |
| 13:22.19 | Eryn_1983_FL | for eth0. |
| 13:22.21 | teraflops | Aorious: also gvfs-backends package handles it for nautilus so check if you have it installed, idk if it gets installed by default with gnome |
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| 13:23.48 | teraflops | Aorious: btw if you want name resolution in your lan avahi sounds like a good choice |
| 13:24.55 | Aorious | teraflops, Will doing all of that give me 'network discovery'? |
| 13:25.24 | teraflops | Aorious: avahi? yes |
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| 13:29.48 | Aorious | teraflops, gvfs-backends was installed already. smb://servername/share did not work, but smb://servername gave me a 'Windows shares on ..' folder. Now I will setup avahi. |
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| 13:36.23 | Aorious | teraflops, So does Gnome use smb by default, or would nfs also work? |
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| 13:37.57 | markybob | Aorious: apt-cache show gvfs-backends tells you what it supports. nfs is not one of them |
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| 13:41.21 | Serajewe1KS | i'm looking at this guide https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/SoftwareRaidRoot and two things confuse me: (1) i don't see a /boot volume, (2) what's the purpose of the two 255MB partitions? |
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| 13:52.22 | Serajewe1KS | is the IDE1 #1 partition supposed to be /boot, even though it's not labeled that way in the screenshots? |
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| 13:52.37 | antzero | I'm trying to install teamviewer but I keep getting a dependency error on "libpng12-0" |
| 13:52.44 | antzero | I already tried to add x86 as architecture on dpkg, apt-get install -f, apt-get update and upgrade but still no luck |
| 13:52.50 | antzero | Should I add some repo to get that package? |
| 13:53.23 | teraflops | antzero: install -f ? so the package is not from debian repos? |
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| 13:53.46 | antzero | It was advised by the teamviewer page |
| 13:53.52 | AlexPortable | petn-randall: i'm trying to achieve a thin client with citrix |
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| 13:54.29 | teraflops | ,v libpng12-0 |
| 13:54.30 | judd | Package: libpng12-0 on amd64 -- squeeze: 1.2.44-1+squeeze4; squeeze-security: 1.2.44-1+squeeze4; squeeze-security-lts: 1.2.44-1+squeeze6; wheezy-security: 1.2.49-1+deb7u2; wheezy: 1.2.49-1+deb7u2; jessie-security: 1.2.50-2+deb8u2; jessie: 1.2.50-2+deb8u2 |
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| 13:54.44 | themill | dpkg: tell antzero about cross-post |
| 13:55.05 | teraflops | antzero: and from which os is the package? ubuntu? |
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| 13:56.21 | antzero | teraflops: How do I know that? |
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| 13:56.50 | teraflops | read from where you grabbed the package |
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| 13:58.01 | antzero | It's in jessie, too |
| 13:58.48 | teraflops | teamviewer? |
| 13:58.54 | antzero | I added jessie in sources.list and apparently it's installing it, is this a bad practice? |
| 13:59.17 | teraflops | antzero: i have no idea of what are you doing to be honest |
| 13:59.18 | antzero | (I'm on stretch) |
| 13:59.45 | teraflops | antzero: this channel is or jessie support btw |
| 13:59.51 | antzero | teraflops, I'm terribly at wording |
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| 14:00.48 | antzero | I fixed that, themill sorry for crossposting and for asking on the wrong channel |
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| 14:01.37 | antzero | I simply added jessie in sources.list and tried to install the missing dependecy, it worked but I was asking if this is a good practice (installing from jessie repos on stretch, compatibility issue or something like that) |
| 14:01.58 | teraflops | antzero: not it's not a good practice at all |
| 14:02.27 | antzero | What should I have done in this case, then? |
| 14:04.12 | teraflops | well, I'm not you... but for sure mixing repos the way you did is not a good idea. |
| 14:04.13 | Aorious | markbob, Okay, thanks! |
| 14:04.14 | Aorious | markybob, Okay, thanks! |
| 14:05.00 | antzero | I used that source only to install that missing dependency, then removed it |
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| 14:15.02 | Deep_Thought | Hi, is their an option to pass to 'service apache2 reload' to ask for the password of the key? |
| 14:15.22 | Deep_Thought | Because actually when there is a password for the key and I use service apache2 reload, apache crash without any warnings |
| 14:15.31 | Deep_Thought | I mean with ssl |
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| 14:20.22 | abrotman | Deep_Thought: the general practice is to remove the password .. Are you unable to do that? |
| 14:20.47 | abrotman | Deep_Thought: An alternative is to feed the passphrase to Apache. You can do this with the SSLPassPhraseDialog option in your httpd.conf (or another file that it includes). When starting up, Apache will take the output of this script and use it as the passphrase for your SSL key. |
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| 14:20.56 | abrotman | Google, 2.6 seconds |
| 14:21.58 | Deep_Thought | Yes I know these methods but IMO this is just a workarround. |
| 14:22.41 | Deep_Thought | apache shoudl ask for the key the same way thet apache does with service apache2 restart |
| 14:24.47 | Deep_Thought | But I don't know if this would be debian-related? |
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| 14:27.18 | iurri | hello everyone, in order to erase a usb drive (sdb), is this dd command correct: ~$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=4k conv=notrunc,noerror ? |
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| 14:29.19 | unborn | can anyone tell me how can I connect to pptp vpn without import file? |
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| 14:39.44 | f0f4r | Can I test on debian if one deb is installed? |
| 14:40.15 | petn-randall | AlexPortable: Then I'd definitely use a window manager. |
| 14:40.19 | MaBunny | you can search for it in synaptic |
| 14:41.13 | petn-randall | f0f4r: As in, test on the commandline? dpkg -l 'yourpackage', if there's a line that start with 'ii', it's installed. |
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| 14:42.43 | f0f4r | petn-randall: I was looking for a single command |
| 14:42.44 | f0f4r | anyway thanks |
| 14:42.58 | abrotman | what's wrong with grep? |
| 14:43.17 | abrotman | f0f4r: dpkg -l foo | egrep '^ii' |
| 14:43.32 | abrotman | oh, and uhm |
| 14:43.54 | f0f4r | I was thinking something like dpkg-query |
| 14:44.08 | rozie | f0f4r: dpkg-query with parameters will work too |
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| 14:45.33 | abrotman | f0f4r: same thing roughly .. but you'd still need something to manage the output I think ? |
| 14:46.21 | themill | !installed test |
| 14:46.21 | dpkg | To test in a script if a package is installed, you can: if dpkg -l $package 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^.i; then echo yes; fi or if [[ $(dpkg-query -f'${Status}' --show $package 2>/dev/null) = *\ installed ]]; then echo yes; fi. Note that "installed" isn't a simple concept -- is the package configured yet? is it actually scheduled for removal? See man dpkg "package states" and "selection states" for more details. |
| 14:46.33 | themill | (note that ii is the wrong thing to test for) |
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| 14:48.04 | petn-randall | themill: I was aware of other package states, but I didn't know of /.i/ also being "installed". |
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| 14:48.53 | petn-randall | But man dpkg-query explains that quite nicely. Learnt something new. Thanks themill. |
| 14:49.07 | themill | the first character is the "desired" state and that can quite reasonably be h for hold |
| 14:49.24 | pflanze | Why would grub load windows without showing any boot choice first? |
| 14:49.28 | themill | (even without more complicated things) |
| 14:49.50 | pflanze | I'm booting off the Debian Live image, but after "loading grub" it just loads windows. On an Eee PC. What's going on? |
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| 14:56.29 | Arcanos | Hello people. |
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| 14:57.38 | vegardx | After loading GRUB? Don't you have any selections in GRUB? |
| 14:58.26 | Arcanos | I am wanting to run Radeon+radeonsi on my Jessie box, it this an easy thing to do? |
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| 14:59.10 | Arcanos | Reason kernel driver radeonsi user mode driver |
| 14:59.18 | Arcanos | Radeon** |
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| 15:00.50 | jml2 | pflanze, usb? |
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| 15:13.31 | Arcanos | I want to use the free Radeon kernel driver with the Radeonsi user mode drivers, is this easy to do? |
| 15:13.50 | jelly | Arcanos: uh, is radeonsi still maintained by anyone? |
| 15:14.37 | Arcanos | I'm not sure, I don't want to use the proprietary driver |
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| 15:15.58 | jelly | there will be amdgpu in stretch, and it _may_ be backported to debian 8 or not |
| 15:16.02 | jelly | ,v xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu |
| 15:16.03 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu on amd64 -- sid: 1.1.0-1; stretch: 1.1.0-1 |
| 15:16.09 | jelly | or not. |
| 15:16.17 | jelly | Arcanos: which card do you have? lspci -nn |
| 15:16.36 | Arcanos | my R9 270x is not supported by amdgpu |
| 15:16.58 | Arcanos | I am undergoing a reinstall at the moment on a 5400 rpm drive |
| 15:17.09 | jelly | I'm not sure radeonsi is in debian at all. What happens when you try the default kernel and drivers? |
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| 15:17.22 | Arcanos | Raster driver |
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| 15:18.06 | Arcanos | when the install completes I will upload the results of glxinfo |
| 15:18.08 | jelly | your choice of hardware and distro combo seems... unfortunate |
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| 15:18.37 | Arcanos | I do have an ancient NVIDIA GeForce GTX 275 |
| 15:18.49 | Arcanos | but it is not in the system |
| 15:19.43 | Arcanos | jelly,. why do you say that |
| 15:20.32 | jelly | just guessing. Best get jessie installed and patched up, see what happens. |
| 15:20.44 | Arcanos | netinstall |
| 15:20.54 | Arcanos | so once it installs I'm good I think |
| 15:21.09 | Arcanos | with the exception of the drivers |
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| 15:22.26 | jelly | possible exception. I really don't know whether it's just embedded in video-radeon and other userspace bits, and #774784 seems to suggest so |
| 15:22.27 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/774784 in src:mesa (closed, upstream, fixed-upstream, patch): «Kernel crashes with radeonsi»; severity: important; opened: 2015-01-07; last modified: 2015-09-17. |
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| 15:23.46 | Arcanos | that would be xserver-xorg-video-radeon right? |
| 15:24.22 | Arcanos | ,v xserver-xorg-video-radeon |
| 15:24.23 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg-video-radeon on amd64 -- squeeze: 1:6.13.1-2+squeeze1; squeeze-backports: 1:6.14.2-1~bpo60+1; wheezy: 1:6.14.4-8; jessie: 1:7.5.0-1; sid: 1:7.7.0-1; stretch: 1:7.7.0-1 |
| 15:24.47 | Arcanos | ,v xserver-xorg-video-radeosi |
| 15:24.48 | judd | No package named 'xserver-xorg-video-radeosi' was found in amd64. |
| 15:24.57 | Arcanos | ,v xserver-xorg-video-radeonsi |
| 15:24.58 | judd | No package named 'xserver-xorg-video-radeonsi' was found in amd64. |
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| 15:25.25 | digidog | how can I choose fs type in fdisk, it only creates ext4 partitions ? |
| 15:25.29 | jelly | Arcanos: the bug report strongly suggests the relevant support is present in existing jessie packages |
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| 15:26.27 | Arcanos | jelly: I read somewhere that the Radeon drivers are blacklisted in Jessie, is this true? |
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| 15:26.47 | jelly | digidog: fdisk just creates partitions, you put a filesystem up with mkfs.FSTYPEHERE |
| 15:27.04 | jelly | Arcanos: no idea, can't comment on that |
| 15:27.24 | digidog | jelly: awesome! thanks for the cue! will read on! |
| 15:27.28 | digidog | jelly++ |
| 15:27.36 | pflanze | jml2, yep usb; but I found the reason it failed, I copied the image to sdb1 instead of sdb |
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| 15:27.46 | pflanze | stupid error. Not enough concentration. |
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| 15:29.08 | jelly | Arcanos: the only thing I can say about it is "works for me on this HD7450" |
| 15:29.28 | jml2 | pflanze, ok |
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| 15:30.10 | jml2 | pflanze, you should use gdisk or sgdisk to do a quick zero-clieaning of the parition tables |
| 15:30.14 | jml2 | pflanze, (prior) |
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| 15:31.30 | digidog | jelly: do I need dosfstools to create a FAT32 filesystem? |
| 15:31.48 | digidog | jelly: or is mkfs enough |
| 15:31.55 | digidog | jelly: https://www.garron.me/en/go2linux/format-usb-drive-fat32-file-system-ubuntu-linux.html |
| 15:31.59 | jml2 | digidog, y |
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| 15:32.21 | digidog | jml2: y = mkfs is enough or y = need dofstools |
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| 15:32.32 | jml2 | digidog, dosftools contains mkfs.vfat |
| 15:32.44 | digidog | jml2: got it! thx! |
| 15:32.50 | digidog | jml2++ |
| 15:32.58 | BinBasher | why not just use gparted :s |
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| 15:33.09 | digidog | BinBasher: -> |
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| 15:33.16 | digidog | hates mouse/GUI |
| 15:33.26 | BinBasher | parted then? |
| 15:33.37 | digidog | BinBasher: better |
| 15:33.42 | jelly | digidog: dosfstools is the package that _brings_ the relevant mkfs.vfat command so yes to both |
| 15:33.44 | digidog | BinBasher: but I am still curious to do without |
| 15:33.59 | digidog | jelly: awesome! thx! |
| 15:34.05 | digidog | jelly++ |
| 15:34.08 | digidog | jml2++ |
| 15:34.10 | jelly | judd: file bin/mkfs.vfat |
| 15:34.12 | digidog | BinBasher++ |
| 15:34.14 | judd | Search for bin/mkfs.vfat in jessie/amd64: dosfstools: sbin/mkfs.vfat |
| 15:34.41 | jelly | feels incremented |
| 15:35.29 | BinBasher | leveled up |
| 15:35.37 | thiolliere | hi, I want a better control on my fan but pwm-config tell me that there are no pwm-capable sensor modules installed. Is there still a way to have more control ? |
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| 15:36.11 | BinBasher | is trying to learn button smash, but already knows four moves |
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| 15:36.45 | petn-randall | thiolliere: Probably not. It's only really desktop machines or servers that have PWM capable fans controllable in userspace, most laptops have the BIOS control the fan speed. |
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| 15:38.12 | jml2 | digidog, better to use mkfs.vfat , "This mkfs frontend is deprecated in favour of filesystem specific mkfs.<type> utils" (manpage of mkfs0 |
| 15:38.35 | jml2 | digidog, welcome |
| 15:38.45 | jml2 | knows manpages don't lie. |
| 15:38.49 | jml2 | ahem |
| 15:38.52 | FinalX | never! |
| 15:38.57 | FinalX | unheard of :) |
| 15:39.04 | thiolliere | Ok, thanks |
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| 15:40.12 | jml2 | -- |
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| 15:40.43 | a1 | wow |
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| 15:42.39 | digidog | join flood! o.@ |
| 15:42.55 | FinalX | irssi++ :) |
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| 15:43.03 | FinalX | just groups em together :) |
| 15:43.05 | Arcanos | jelly, https://paste.debian.net/700066/ |
| 15:43.12 | digidog | uses IRSSI |
| 15:43.30 | digidog | FinalX: ^ |
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| 15:43.41 | Arcanos | Just had to install the nonfree firmwares and it worked |
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| 15:44.22 | mase2hotUK | I've got a php script sending emails, does anyone know if its possible to multithread these with sendmail? |
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| 15:45.14 | FinalX | mase2hotUK: sending mail in PHP is usually done with mail(), that calls the sendmail binary to submit it to sendmail; sendmail already does multithreaded delivery afaik |
| 15:45.36 | mase2hotUK | oh |
| 15:45.55 | FinalX | (would be weird if it didn't :P) |
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| 15:46.23 | digidog | what the h*** .... |
| 15:46.30 | mase2hotUK | oh I just throught it was slow, doing ps aux I see it is there multple times. Is there a way to increase? |
| 15:46.42 | FinalX | ok, irssi failed me there .. did not groupt hose :P |
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| 15:47.36 | FinalX | mase2hotUK: not sure how exactly, I'm more of a postfix user myself, but, pretty much any MTA would group mails to the same domains together for delivery I guess, and do those in one batch, one after another |
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| 15:50.33 | SerajewelKS | grub is driving me nuts. i have an LVM-in-RAID1 setup and i'm trying to boot from it. no matter what i do, grub gives me the error "invalid arch-independent ELF magic" |
| 15:50.51 | SerajewelKS | whether i use pc(BIOS) or efi(UEFI) grub, i get this same error. there is a bios_grub partition. |
| 15:50.58 | SerajewelKS | grub-install reports no errors |
| 15:51.49 | SerajewelKS | i'm at a complete loss to explain why grub won't boot |
| 15:53.00 | zykotick9 | wondering is anyone has a suggestion... I have a "Hori Fighting Stick 3" that had been working all weekend... now... nothing :( origionally when I tried it, it also didn't work -- then magically started working, and now magically stopped working. searching online i found https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99541 which seems to suggest it doesn't load hid-sony, trying hid-generic instead. BUT |
| 15:53.06 | zykotick9 | this WAS working!?! |
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| 15:53.45 | awwal | How to continue displaying next matching entries when using bash "reverse-i-serch" (Ctrl+r) ? |
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| 15:55.01 | FinalX | hit ^R again? |
| 15:55.46 | FinalX | moved from bash to zsh a while back, but I'm quite sure you can just keep hitting ctrl+r to cycle through them |
| 15:55.58 | pflanze | What is the Debian Live root password? |
| 15:56.02 | pflanze | There's no sudo installed. |
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| 15:57.19 | FinalX | ...there should be |
| 15:57.27 | Pr0metheus | If i plug a hard disk to a different sata port on the motherboard will this affect the mounting of the devices if this is done by uuid? |
| 15:57.46 | FinalX | Pr0metheus: when using uuid, no, it does not |
| 15:57.54 | zykotick9 | Pr0metheus: if you only use UUID (or Labels) it shouldn't. |
| 15:58.00 | Pr0metheus | Thanks FinalX |
| 15:58.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1693] by debhelper |
| 15:58.06 | Pr0metheus | and zykotick9 :) |
| 15:58.07 | Meliorate | hi all, i have removed some config in /etc, after uninstalling an app, but now when i reinstall the app, it does not install the default config in /etc :( i've tried apt-get purge/clean/etc, but it still doesn't install the default config. how do i correct this, using apt* ? |
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| 15:58.32 | FinalX | Pr0metheus: btw, you can also give the filesystem a label and then mount it with LABEL=x in fstab :) though I always do UUID, I feel it's somehow safer |
| 15:58.36 | Iridos | dpkg, tell pflanze about live login |
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| 16:00.52 | awwal | FinalX, ok, it works. Thanks! |
| 16:02.11 | pflanze | Iridos, but that's the user password, not root. How do I get root? |
| 16:03.02 | FinalX | awwal: great! |
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| 16:03.46 | raden | anyone have an idea what return code 256 for ssh means ? |
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| 16:06.50 | awwal | pflanze, probably if you run "passwd root" or "sudo passwd root" you will be prompted to create a root password and use it |
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| 16:07.17 | Iridos | pflanze, oh... right, you implied you had the user... |
| 16:07.39 | FinalX | raden: hum, never seen it before, and the only lists I found, do not mention it, like: http://support.attachmate.com/techdocs/2285.html |
| 16:07.44 | Iridos | pflanze, what happens if you give an empty password after "su" ? |
| 16:08.07 | raden | FinalX, yea same here |
| 16:08.14 | Iridos | pflanze, if nobody here knows, ask #debian-live on irc.oftc.net (not here on freenode)... |
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| 16:08.57 | FinalX | raden: is that directly from the ssh command to bash for example? or are you using something like perl? |
| 16:09.12 | FinalX | because in the latter case, I found this: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=94102 |
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| 16:11.45 | Iridos | I dunno... that thing looks heavily under-documented to me |
| 16:12.07 | raden | FinalX, python subprocess.communicate , running off address list outta mysql , had 2 connections last night return 256 out of approximately 90 successful ones .... |
| 16:12.11 | Iridos | not that you'd need too much documentation... but how to gain access would be a thing |
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| 16:12.47 | FinalX | raden: I was asking because the highest code I can find is a 255, perhaps it's an internal one from the process handler? |
| 16:12.51 | Iridos | pflanze, or send mail to their mailing list |
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| 16:13.12 | raden | FinalX, ill write some logging into the script and keep running see what happens |
| 16:13.36 | cruncher | raden, try -vvv and see if you can make out the error |
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| 16:16.38 | jelly | SerajewelKS: which hardware? Do you have a separate /boot? |
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| 16:19.28 | |_[O_O]_| | hai friends, im working with grub2 and seem to be hitting an issue where settings in menu.lst from grub-legacy (which isn't installed) are overriding definitions in grub.cfg... what gives? |
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| 16:20.05 | |_[O_O]_| | I can only assume its to keep from breaking legacy -- but I cannot find documentation around it what so ever |
| 16:20.05 | SerajewelKS | jelly: HP ProLiant ML10 v2 server, no separate /boot (following the advice of the debian wiki). the partition layout on both drives is a 1MB bios |
| 16:20.15 | SerajewelKS | _grub partition, followed by a physical RAID volume |
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| 16:20.33 | SerajewelKS | (RAID1) the RAID volume contains an LVM physical volume, which has the swap and / volumes |
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| 16:21.03 | SerajewelKS | the drives are 3TB which makes GPT mandatory, which i guess is why i need a bios_grub partition |
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| 16:21.48 | SerajewelKS | AFAICT the hardware doesn't support UEFI |
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| 16:24.41 | SerajewelKS | diagnosing boot failures is no fun, particularly because the error messages are often vague or misleading :( |
| 16:24.41 | dondelelcaro | SerajewelKS: hrm; that setup should work; what does gdisk -l /dev/foo; look for the device? |
| 16:24.58 | SerajewelKS | dondelelcaro: i'll let you know in a sec, this server takes forever to reboot |
| 16:25.17 | jelly | sorry, have to look up ML10, hp inventing new models again |
| 16:25.24 | SerajewelKS | like 3-4 minutes to POST |
| 16:25.33 | jelly | SerajewelKS: 3-4 minutes is SHORT. |
| 16:25.45 | SerajewelKS | really? |
| 16:25.47 | jelly | DL360 G8 and G9 do 5-8 minutes |
| 16:26.02 | SerajewelKS | this is my first "server-grade" system. i'm used to my desktop booting to the login screen in 15 seconds :) |
| 16:26.10 | jelly | "hey we have this fancy new uefi firmware, let's make everything slow as hell" |
| 16:26.12 | dondelelcaro | SerajewelKS: yeah, server grade stuff tends to do more memory checking |
| 16:26.23 | SerajewelKS | yeah i figured it was something like that |
| 16:26.37 | dondelelcaro | and have tons of cards which want to be incredibly slow to load and tell you precisely what they're doing, and then let you interrupt the boot |
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| 16:26.48 | jelly | probably enumerating all the possible hardware in interpreted forth rebuilt for uefi |
| 16:26.56 | pflanze | Iridos, passwd doesn't allow to change the root pw from a user account; su - without any pw doesn't work either. I'm just using the normal installer and will finish installation first instead. Thanks anyway! |
| 16:26.58 | SerajewelKS | yeah it takes awhile to get through all the onboard crap |
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| 16:27.17 | SerajewelKS | sata controller, raid controller, iLO (whatever tf that is), netboot, all give you some seconds to hit a key |
| 16:27.20 | dondelelcaro | SerajewelKS: the most important thing is going to be the output of grub-install, though. |
| 16:27.23 | pflanze | Anyway, it made Debian Live pointless for me. So going to chat to them. |
| 16:27.32 | dondelelcaro | SerajewelKS: ilo is integrated lights out; it's the KVM thingie |
| 16:27.51 | dondelelcaro | (well, remote KVM thingie; it's pretty awesome when it works, and annoying when it doesn't) |
| 16:28.03 | SerajewelKS | ^ just like grub |
| 16:28.11 | jelly | SerajewelKS: iLO = remote console, remote power button, booting from remote .iso, remote power and hardware monitoring |
| 16:28.34 | SerajewelKS | jelly: neat. maybe if i can get this thing booting i'll play around with it. :) |
| 16:29.10 | dondelelcaro | SerajewelKS: once you have it booted, the output from grub-install --verbose /dev/sda; (or whatever) will probably be most informative |
| 16:29.12 | SerajewelKS | trying to acquire the latest SPP took me 3+ hours last night because HPE can't put together a decent website |
| 16:29.16 | jelly | when you get iLO working you can get the hell out of the server room and continue working from laptop :-) |
| 16:29.28 | SerajewelKS | in the end i didn't even wind up downloading it from their site, i gave up on that |
| 16:29.58 | SerajewelKS | dondelelcaro: noted. then to figure out how to get it off of this box and onto a pastebin. |
| 16:30.17 | SerajewelKS | do we have a dpaste packageL |
| 16:30.42 | dondelelcaro | SerajewelKS: if you're using the debian installer to bring it back up, you can launch an ssh client, or there's pastebinit |
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| 16:31.08 | SerajewelKS | fair enough, i guess there are many ways to do this |
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| 16:31.41 | SerajewelKS | the first time i booted the server i though it was defective; it rebooted itself 4+ times, i thought it was stuck in a bootloop |
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| 16:32.14 | Iridos | pflanze, it's a recurring question... |
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| 16:34.47 | SerajewelKS | jelly, dondelelcaro: i'm actually reinstalling debian right now; i kind of hacked the bios_grub thing because i didn't realize there was an option in partman for it |
| 16:34.54 | SerajewelKS | and i'm not sure if i screwed that up |
| 16:35.05 | dondelelcaro | SerajewelKS: ah, yeah, hopefully it will just work from the installer |
| 16:35.10 | SerajewelKS | basically i went to a VT and marked the partition with parted before letting the installer install grub |
| 16:35.21 | SerajewelKS | in theory it should have been identical, but who knows |
| 16:35.39 | SerajewelKS | OTOH i booted rescue mode and did grub-install multiple times, and it shouldn't have cared how the partition got marked so iono |
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| 16:36.01 | SerajewelKS | but i figure we'll give the installer another go doing things right this time and see where we get |
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| 16:36.30 | SerajewelKS | i just made unformatted partitions in partman and used parted later to add the flag |
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| 16:37.27 | SerajewelKS | i appreciate you guys helping me out; boot errors are my least favorite thing to troubleshoot |
| 16:38.18 | SerajewelKS | i have a VM at work that, when i generate initrds from the installed system, the kernel panics but when i do so from the installer in rescue mode, chrooted into the installed system, it boots |
| 16:38.29 | SerajewelKS | so every time i update the kernel i have to boot the installer to fix the initrd |
| 16:39.09 | SerajewelKS | i captured a sample working and non-working initrd. they are not byte-for-byte identical, but extracting them both and diffing their trees showed no differences. |
| 16:39.18 | SerajewelKS | so that's another unsolved boot mystery |
| 16:39.44 | SerajewelKS | but i've given up on solving it |
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| 16:40.35 | SerajewelKS | it's one of those weird cases where it's 100% reproducible but only on this one VM |
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| 16:44.06 | SerajewelKS | sucks that creating a RAID1 implies a resync, nothing like copying over 3TB of nothing from one disk to another. i know why it's necessary but it makes the install so slow. |
| 16:44.23 | m0rd3cai | Is this the place to ask a question about compiling a program? |
| 16:44.43 | SerajewelKS | m0rd3cai: depending on the program, maybe. ask your question and we'll redirect you if this isn't the right place. |
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| 16:46.18 | m0rd3cai | im trying to install tetrifast http://tetrinet.info i've run ./configure which ran successfully. instructions tell me to use "make" but when i do it only says "no target specified/no makefile found" |
| 16:46.24 | m0rd3cai | not sure wher to go from there |
| 16:46.50 | SerajewelKS | m0rd3cai: that would be a question to ask their community |
| 16:46.53 | greycat | ./configure should have created a file named "Makefile" in the current directory. Sounds like ./configure failed. |
| 16:47.00 | SerajewelKS | sounds like their auto* stuff isn't creating the makefile |
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| 16:47.03 | m0rd3cai | there is Makefile |
| 16:47.05 | Jsync | hello, I need help setting up an Apache Server. I want a particular configuration. A person suggested that I do not have to use the www folder & I could create a folder titled gdn (Global DrakoNet) for the url page prefix. How can I do this? |
| 16:47.07 | greycat | You should read the output of ./configure more carefully and see what actually happened. |
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| 16:47.27 | SerajewelKS | dondelelcaro, jelly: install finished, rebooting now *crosses fingers* |
| 16:47.27 | greycat | Is the Makefile empty or something? |
| 16:47.41 | m0rd3cai | greycat: there is Makefile.am and Makefile.in |
| 16:47.50 | m0rd3cai | not Makefile |
| 16:47.53 | icarious | Anyone knows of any Debian based certification program similar to what Redhat does for RHEL (RHCE) ? |
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| 16:47.58 | SerajewelKS | m0rd3cai: those are templates / variables used in generating a makefile |
| 16:47.58 | greycat | Oh, then see my previous statements. |
| 16:48.00 | greycat | It failed. |
| 16:48.09 | SerajewelKS | m0rd3cai: what greycat said, ./configure failed |
| 16:48.20 | SerajewelKS | m0rd3cai: you are probably missing some *-dev packages |
| 16:48.24 | m0rd3cai | ok thanks, ill look into that. maybe missing pkg's or something |
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| 16:49.38 | SerajewelKS | dondelelcaro, jelly: same grub error |
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| 16:50.04 | Jsync | Can anybody help me setup a gdn DrakoNet folder for an Apache Server? |
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| 16:50.51 | greycat | Jsync: Don't think in terms of directories. Start by thinking in terms of fully qualified domain names. How many different domain names is this instance of Apache going to serve? |
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| 16:51.35 | Jsync | Just a single domain name. I just want the prefix of the domain to actually be gdn, not www |
| 16:51.52 | greycat | That has nothing at all to do with directories. That's a DNS issue. |
| 16:51.57 | Jsync | I want to put Dragons in peoples' faces. ^.^ |
| 16:52.21 | greycat | Just set up your domain's DNS so that gdn.your.domain resolves to the web server's IP address. |
| 16:52.38 | m0rd3cai | ok heres another ?. i foudn my answer. im trying to compile to setup a server for tetrinet. to compile it requitres gnome and libgnome yet this is my server VPS. there is no GUI. If i install those packages for gnome, that shouldnt break anything. |
| 16:52.41 | SerajewelKS | dondelelcaro, jelly: i have to run an errand in ~8 minutes but will be back in about 20 after that. not asking you guys to commit to stick around just letting you know why i'll be unresponsive. |
| 16:52.54 | Jsync | Well, I was told that the prefix can be anything. Though that's appertaining the configuration of the Apache Server I think, right? |
| 16:53.00 | greycat | m0rd3cai: right, you can install gnome -dev packages without installing "a gui" |
| 16:53.08 | m0rd3cai | suhweet |
| 16:53.16 | jelly | SerajewelKS: that's fine, I'm billing you by the minute |
| 16:53.39 | SerajewelKS | +1 |
| 16:54.09 | Jsync | greycat, I'll do what I can & look at the DNS part. Thanks. |
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| 16:54.36 | Jsync | I just remembered that redirect configuration file on the DNS site. Gracias for the help. |
| 16:54.58 | greycat | Jsync: Since you're only serving one domain, you don't have to mess with virtual hosts or anything. Just make sure Apache is *not* canonicalizing the domain name, and you should be all set once DNS is fixed up. |
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| 16:55.20 | Jsync | People should package Apache with a gdn file to show something more sociologically appropriate. |
| 16:55.57 | *** join/#debian Merixer (~Merixer@2001:470:deb8:a1::1) |
| 16:56.14 | Jsync | Dragons in peoples' faces. 0.o |
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| 16:58.10 | jelly | I find not messing with virtualhosts is silly. If you have one site you may soon have two or more. |
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| 16:58.34 | greycat | There's merit in that argument, but I suspect this is his first web server, so there's also merit in KISS. |
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| 16:59.20 | JamieDimon | Is this the appropriate channel for server support? |
| 16:59.27 | jelly | the moment you want https you have two virtualhosts, and you want https right away I'd think |
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| 16:59.46 | jelly | JamieDimon: if the server is running debian, yes |
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| 17:00.05 | greycat | Why would you want https? |
| 17:00.18 | jelly | it's becoming a default |
| 17:00.31 | jelly | the question is why would you NOT want it |
| 17:00.36 | JamieDimon | jelly: Well, it's not. It is running Ubuntu Trusty, but I need to get away from upstart so I'm considering Debian vs CentOS now. |
| 17:00.41 | greycat | If all your friends jump off a bridge, .... |
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| 17:01.18 | jelly | JamieDimon: both have current releases with systemd as default init and service manager |
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| 17:02.08 | jelly | debian can be switched back to sysvinit easily if need be. No idea about centos. |
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| 17:02.37 | JamieDimon | That's good. |
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| 17:14.16 | JamieDimon | Debian or FreeBSD sounds like the safest choice all-things-considered. |
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| 17:17.00 | unborn | okay.. so finally I ditched ubuntu completely :) |
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| 17:19.21 | Zarthus | yeah? are you not even missing the amazon search a little bit? |
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| 17:24.07 | SerajewelKS | dondelelcaro, jelly: gdisk and grub-install output: http://paste.debian.net/700241/ |
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| 17:29.11 | SerajewelKS | dondelelcaro, jelly: haha wtf okay now it's working |
| 17:29.12 | jelly | greycat: they're not jumping off a bridge, but they're sure going to use browsers made by bungee lovers. |
| 17:29.42 | SerajewelKS | i installed grub to /dev/sdb as well (something i did before reinstalling debian, too, which did not work) |
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| 17:30.02 | jelly | SerajewelKS: now unplug sda and see if it boots! :-D |
| 17:30.07 | SerajewelKS | i guess the system was trying to boot from sdb and i hadn't installed grub to sdb on the reinstalled environment |
| 17:30.16 | jelly | kidding, wait a day until the thing rebuilds |
| 17:30.37 | SerajewelKS | i'm still not sure why it didn't work before reinstalling, but whatever, at least it's working now |
| 17:30.42 | SerajewelKS | jelly: yeah i was gonna say |
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| 17:31.21 | SerajewelKS | jelly: mdstat estimates 30 days to sync |
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| 17:31.36 | jelly | I'm conservative and if I have to use md raid for boot/os disks, I still use separate /boot and put md format 1.0 or 0.9 on it |
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| 17:32.35 | SerajewelKS | 30 days to copy 3TB seems like a long time |
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| 17:33.32 | jelly | SerajewelKS: grep . /sys/block/md*/md/{stripe_cache_size,speed_limit_min} says what? |
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| 17:35.01 | SerajewelKS | jelly: no such file or directory on both |
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| 17:35.10 | jelly | oh, raid1 |
| 17:35.19 | SerajewelKS | yes |
| 17:35.25 | jelly | SerajewelKS: then just speed_limit_min |
| 17:35.47 | jelly | the other one is for raid5 and 6 only I think |
| 17:35.54 | SerajewelKS | jelly: like i said, no such file or directory on both of those |
| 17:35.57 | SerajewelKS | including speed_limit_min |
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| 17:36.21 | SerajewelKS | sync_speed_min? |
| 17:36.26 | jelly | um. what DO you have in /sys/block/mdXXX/md/ then? |
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| 17:36.36 | JamieDimon | What's the best way to install Debian 8 on a server if I want to avoid installing cruft, like X Window Manager? |
| 17:36.41 | jelly | right, I've copied a typo from irc. |
| 17:36.44 | JamieDimon | I can mount an ISO |
| 17:36.50 | greycat | Install it, and deselect Desktop Environment when you get to that step. |
| 17:36.55 | SerajewelKS | jelly: min is 1000 (system), max is 200000 (system) |
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| 17:37.16 | SerajewelKS | sync_speed changes but seems to average about 1100 |
| 17:37.28 | jelly | SerajewelKS: you can echo 20000 > sync_speed_min |
| 17:37.42 | SerajewelKS | neat. guessing i need to change it back later? |
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| 17:38.15 | SerajewelKS | jelly: heh now we're talking 38 minutes, that's a bit better :) |
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| 17:38.24 | SerajewelKS | is learning a lot of things today |
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| 17:38.40 | jelly | 38 minutes can't be right for a 3TB device |
| 17:38.43 | JamieDimon | Okay, so I will just use the netinst image? http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.4.0/amd64/bt-cd/debian-8.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso.torrent |
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| 17:38.56 | SerajewelKS | jelly: oh my bad, hours |
| 17:39.00 | SerajewelKS | i confused my units |
| 17:39.22 | jelly | a 146GB 10krpm SAS can do 38 minutes, yours should be more like 18 hours |
| 17:39.24 | greycat | Yes, use netinst and install normally. When you get to the tasksel dialog, with things like "SSH server" and "Debian Desktop", uncheck everything you don't want. Which should just be one thing, since only one thing is checked by default IIRC. |
| 17:39.25 | SerajewelKS | still that's definitely better |
| 17:39.47 | FinalX | jelly: my 8 TB disk takes 26 hours to rebuild and that's an SMR disk, but that's with ZFS, though :) |
| 17:39.52 | jelly | SerajewelKS: if the system is otherwise idle, up it to 50000 or 70000 |
| 17:39.58 | greycat | If you uncheck literally everything, you get a base install. |
| 17:40.04 | SerajewelKS | jelly: can min be > max? |
| 17:40.07 | FinalX | ...and that's on an old X7DBU board with 3gbit sata :P |
| 17:40.21 | jelly | SerajewelKS: no, but they can be equal |
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| 17:40.39 | jelly | SerajewelKS: well honestly I did not try to do that, ever |
| 17:40.46 | JamieDimon | Last thing: what can I tell management when they find out I'm reverting the migration to Ubuntu Server that was done in 2011? |
| 17:41.08 | jelly | FinalX: raid1 zfs? |
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| 17:41.13 | FinalX | jelly: mirror |
| 17:41.18 | jelly | right. |
| 17:41.20 | FinalX | so yeah |
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| 17:41.42 | mutante | JamieDimon: managers look at apt sources ?:P |
| 17:41.58 | jelly | tries to avoid using huge disks for OS where possible |
| 17:42.45 | FinalX | so do I, I have 16 GB SATA DOM SLC with the host OS, and a mirror of 128 GB SSDs for LXC containers (raid1, where everything runs in), and then 4x8TB for big data (raid10) |
| 17:42.57 | JamieDimon | mutante: Well, I am going to announce the change back to Debian. |
| 17:43.00 | FinalX | if shit goes south, I just reinstall the SLC-stick, set up networking and lxc, and I'm done |
| 17:43.03 | FinalX | ubnu1841723664644541 |
| 17:43.04 | FinalX | oops |
| 17:43.09 | jelly | JamieDimon: you could have gone with ubuntu 16.04, it also has systemd now |
| 17:43.41 | JamieDimon | jelly: Right, but I'm not. I have to say Debian is better. |
| 17:43.45 | FinalX | that's what I'm using on my server, because of ZFS and better LXC support; all our servers at work are running Debian, though :) |
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| 17:44.04 | jelly | JamieDimon: then tell them why it's better? |
| 17:44.36 | jelly | if YOU don't know why, why are you migrating to it? |
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| 17:45.56 | teraflops | hears about migration and starts to sweat |
| 17:46.15 | greycat | The servers are flying south soon! |
| 17:46.26 | teraflops | Hah |
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| 17:47.27 | JamieDimon | jelly: Lack of sleep after a power outage honestly, but I feel Debian will have lower memory use by default |
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| 17:48.47 | teraflops | What's wrong with the south? :P |
| 17:48.57 | jamesl | I've updated my sources.list in preparation for upgrading to debian stretch, and am currently running apt -get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. Do I need to update the kernel after the update or can I just reboot straight away? |
| 17:49.01 | JamieDimon | I am so not in the right mind to be planning our infrastructure, but if it's not done today -- I know it won;t happen |
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| 17:49.21 | greycat | jamesl: for testing support go to OFTC network, channel #debian-next |
| 17:49.47 | jamesl | greycat, thanks. Didn't know about that channel |
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| 17:50.46 | jelly | JamieDimon: honestly now that I can't buy a server with <16GB, I'm not sure a couple hundred MB available RAM is a valuable addition |
| 17:51.14 | JamieDimon | jelly: I'm working with a total of 6 GB for everything. |
| 17:51.23 | jelly | I'm sorry. |
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| 17:51.50 | jelly | install i386, its userspace eats 0-10% less RAM ;-) |
| 17:51.50 | JamieDimon | But I suppose I should be aware of what we are paying for the extra 200MB |
| 17:52.43 | jelly | (depending on workload. I've seen really broken perl scripts eat 80% more on amd64) |
| 17:52.50 | JamieDimon | jelly: Even on VMware that's running on an AMD64 machine (yes, that's right--we have VMware ESX on this 6 GB machine) |
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| 17:53.10 | jelly | doesn't ESX reserve 2GiB for itself by default |
| 17:53.53 | jelly | I'd send you some crap DDR2 sticks or 512-1GB size that are otherwise going to be trashed |
| 17:54.01 | jelly | of* |
| 17:54.06 | JamieDimon | I can't go wrong with Debian to save 200MB though can I? |
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| 17:54.56 | jelly | you can go wrong if you don't verify your assumptions |
| 17:55.07 | JamieDimon | The machine is far away from me, but I appreciate it. |
| 17:55.33 | jelly | so okay, install a debian vm, but also install a 32bit one and a base ubuntu and a base 32bit ubnntu if those still exist. |
| 17:55.44 | JamieDimon | jelly: Absolutely, they are my achilles heel. You are straight onto me |
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| 17:57.18 | jelly | (you may also realize you could save more time and money getting 2-4-8 GB RAM from ebay instead of doing microoptimizations) |
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| 18:28.22 | oo_miguel | The write speed to my usb-drive is aroun 130KB/s while reading seems fine. Any idea what might be causing this? |
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| 18:33.49 | tharkun | I'm scripting my way out of installing a mailserver. When I do apt-get install postfix I get an interactive dialog to preconfigure postfix how can I skip it? |
| 18:34.25 | tharkun | oo_miguel: The age of your usb is something that is indeed very important and also how much info it has. |
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| 18:35.09 | oo_miguel | the drive is already a couple of years old. you mean it might be damaged? |
| 18:35.30 | jelly | oo_miguel: which exact command are you using to write to it? |
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| 18:36.00 | jelly | wonders if dd with too small bs |
| 18:36.03 | oo_miguel | jelly: I used midnight commander to copy a file. but I can try "cp" from the commandline and see if it helps |
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| 18:36.27 | tharkun | oo_miguel: Not precisely damage but maybe near its EOL |
| 18:36.40 | jelly | oo_miguel: also: use the "mount" command to see whether the "sync" option is present for that mount point |
| 18:36.41 | oo_miguel | reading is a couple of magnitudes faster |
| 18:36.59 | jelly | which debian release is this, oo_miguel? |
| 18:37.35 | oo_miguel | debian 8 jelly |
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| 18:38.40 | rainfyre | thought it was debian 8 jessie ... |
| 18:38.46 | oo_miguel | ehehe |
| 18:38.49 | rainfyre | heheh |
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| 18:39.47 | oo_miguel | oooops, It seems it was my fault |
| 18:39.51 | oo_miguel | however I do not understand it |
| 18:39.57 | oo_miguel | the drive was mounted twice |
| 18:40.14 | oo_miguel | once automounted under /media/usb0 but I mounted it myself manually |
| 18:41.00 | oo_miguel | still I wonder why this slowed it down so badly |
| 18:41.31 | lesta | which fs? fat 32? |
| 18:41.48 | oo_miguel | lesta: nah its ext4 |
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| 18:43.36 | oo_miguel | maybe it was mounted at two places with varying mount options or something |
| 18:43.57 | oo_miguel | never mind. I am glad it works now. thank you very much everybody |
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| 18:57.58 | consolejazz | Running Debian on a lowend home NAS. I have my desktop computer's `/home` directory that I wish to keep on disk1 of the NAS and then have automated, incremental backups of disk1 to NASs disk2. Both disks will have use dm-crypt + LUKS encrypted partitions. NAS will be on 24/7, however, I wish to have the disks' partitions auto-mounted upon login. QUESTION 1: Is the simplest way to do this with a Bash script? Wondering what else I should includ |
| 18:58.52 | greycat | Dear gods, no, you don't set up automounting home directories with a bash script. You use autofs. |
| 18:58.55 | consolejazz | QUESTION 2: What utility should I use to make these automated, incremental filesystem backups of disk1 to disk2 (i.e., both disks' encrypted partitions already mounted)? |
| 18:59.11 | greycat | Backups *can* be done with a bash script. |
| 18:59.24 | consolejazz | greycat: heh, that's why I'm here :) Now I have a new keyword to research |
| 18:59.44 | consolejazz | Although I'm sure I've probably come across the term already. Just a lot to take in |
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| 19:01.03 | consolejazz | Also, my main reason for encrypting the drives is to act as a safeguard in case of home theft |
| 19:01.20 | tako | Hi my software & updates not working i remove and install it again but still it is not working |
| 19:01.29 | consolejazz | I'm still figuring out a FOSS remote-hosted (offsite) backup solution |
| 19:01.49 | jamesl | I can't get smooth video in HTML5 youtube, even with the gstreamer packages that are required for HTML5 playack installed. Even 360P is not smooth. Youtube is smooth in windows, so it isn't a resource problem |
| 19:01.59 | mtn | tako: which version of debian? |
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| 19:02.24 | tako | mtn, stable |
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| 19:02.48 | mtn | tako: what does software and updates not working mean? |
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| 19:03.02 | tako | mtn, when i uncheck a source its not working |
| 19:03.12 | tako | mtn, its dont check anything |
| 19:03.17 | mtn | tako: sorry, I don't know what you mean by that, either |
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| 19:04.16 | tako | mtn, do u know that program that manage your sources from gui |
| 19:04.34 | mtn | tako: synaptic? |
| 19:04.58 | tako | mtn, nope this https://packages.debian.org/jessie/software-properties-gtk |
| 19:05.10 | mtn | tako: no, never used it |
| 19:05.39 | tako | mtn, okay its not working so :D |
| 19:05.41 | mtn | tako: why don't you paste your /etc/apt/sources.list to dpaste.com and give us the link? |
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| 19:06.43 | tako | http://dpaste.com/28M7D48 |
| 19:06.46 | mutante | tako: might be easier to just edit the files with a text editor |
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| 19:07.35 | mtn | tako: or use synaptic, if that other app is not working for you |
| 19:07.43 | mutante | the "httpredir" part looks odd |
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| 19:08.05 | mtn | mutante: nah, that is ok |
| 19:08.14 | mutante | ok |
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| 19:09.10 | tako | mtn, in synaptic i can remove sources from sources.list or sources.list.d and i dont want to do it from file |
| 19:09.35 | mtn | tako: ok, so use synaptic. that will work, right? |
| 19:09.57 | tharkun | How can I install an package that trys to run dpk-reconfig but without actually running dpkg-reconfigure so the installation can be scripted. What would be my google/dpkg search term? |
| 19:09.59 | mtn | tako: you should read this, too. https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian |
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| 19:11.29 | mutante | tharkun: http://www.microhowto.info/howto/perform_an_unattended_installation_of_a_debian_package.html#idp9024 |
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| 19:18.43 | wewlad | hello pals |
| 19:19.25 | wewlad | how to copy a whole line (a long one) in nano? when I select it and copy it - it get's narrowed down to the visible part and the rest is replaced with $ |
| 19:21.32 | FinalX | i'm a vim user, but whenever i need to do something in nano, i just hit ctrl+k and then ctrl+u, then ctrl+u again to make a second copy :P |
| 19:21.38 | greycat | Wow, the nano man page doesn't show the keystrokes at all. |
| 19:21.42 | FinalX | works easier than figuring out the other keyboard shortcuts tbh |
| 19:21.50 | FinalX | the keystrokes are at the bottom of the screen |
| 19:21.57 | FinalX | M-^ Copy Text |
| 19:22.10 | FinalX | and I suppose once copied, it might also just be ^U |
| 19:22.28 | greycat | wonders why people use nano if they don't know how to do anything in nano |
| 19:22.42 | tharkun | mutante: Just what the doctor ordered Thanks :) |
| 19:22.46 | FinalX | hey, i started with pico, it's predecessor, before I learned vim |
| 19:23.09 | mutante | tharkun: :) |
| 19:23.21 | FinalX | ...but that was pretty much because it came with pine |
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| 19:23.29 | FinalX | god, i feel old |
| 19:23.39 | tharkun | greycat: nano seems to be the default cli editor for debian. It used to be vim |
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| 19:24.10 | FinalX | ....to our horror at work :) first think is export EDITOR=vim :) |
| 19:24.15 | FinalX | thing* |
| 19:24.46 | tharkun | Actually there is a debian command that makes that persistent on the system. |
| 19:24.48 | greycat | Also, my nano doesn't show "M-^ Copy Text" but it does show "^K Cut Text" and "^U UnCut Text" |
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| 19:25.02 | greycat | tharkun: update-alternatives --config editor |
| 19:25.32 | tharkun | Yes, that one :) I keep forgetting it :) |
| 19:25.33 | FinalX | ok, I see. I started it on an Ubuntu box, the jessie one does not show them.. sorry |
| 19:25.37 | wewlad | turns out nano is not really usable |
| 19:25.54 | wewlad | ctrl+k > ctrl+u way doesn't work across 2 files |
| 19:25.59 | FinalX | (Ubuntu is nano 2.5, jessie is 2.2) |
| 19:26.11 | greycat | wewlad: cp the file, edit each copy. |
| 19:26.35 | tharkun | wewlad: greycat gave you the answer. Use something you feel well with. and use the update-alternatives to make it persistent. |
| 19:26.36 | wewlad | greycat: I need to add 1 small paragraph from one file to another |
| 19:26.57 | greycat | cp file1 foo; editor foo; cat foo >> file2; editor file2 |
| 19:27.18 | wewlad | so basically cat a file |
| 19:27.22 | tharkun | don't forget to erase everything you don't want directly on foo so it is less messy |
| 19:27.28 | greycat | Or use whichever non-newbie editor you actually use. |
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| 19:28.13 | berndj | how do i show a package's maintainer scripts? |
| 19:28.16 | FinalX | and if you don't know any, try to learn one, preferably one that you know will be around other linux installs by default as well (like vim) |
| 19:28.25 | berndj | ideally given an uninstalled .deb file |
| 19:28.28 | FinalX | ..it'll be great value |
| 19:28.29 | wewlad | so I just cat file1 > selected and copied the text using mouse and ctrl+shift+c > nano file2 > ctrl+shift=v |
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| 19:28.43 | wewlad | that's a crappy way |
| 19:29.17 | wewlad | what are some normal text editors for linux? |
| 19:29.24 | wewlad | for debian |
| 19:29.27 | greycat | wewlad: vim, vim, emacs, and vim |
| 19:29.38 | wewlad | no, no, no and no |
| 19:29.48 | berndj | and ex |
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| 19:30.02 | greycat | ed is the standard editor(tm) |
| 19:30.19 | wewlad | can ed copy a long line to paste it into another file? |
| 19:30.25 | wewlad | copy from a file |
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| 19:30.48 | greycat | vim can. |
| 19:30.50 | greycat | I just did it. |
| 19:31.15 | wewlad | vim uses a dicky approach 'remember all my keys and hotkeys or die painfully' |
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| 19:33.16 | lesta | in nano is more easy: ^G or F1 for help |
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| 19:33.44 | tharkun | wewlad: Most cli editors with have in one way or another that aproach but vim allways has :help command to the rescue. |
| 19:33.46 | mutante | "easy" = what you did often before |
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| 19:34.05 | tharkun | Same way of thinking as man pages for bash. |
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| 19:34.16 | mutante | how is ^G not "remember the hotkey" |
| 19:34.33 | lesta | F1 |
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| 19:34.48 | greycat | because it says "^G Get Help" at the bottom of the nano screen |
| 19:35.08 | mutante | ok :) true then |
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| 19:45.18 | consolejazz | greycat: your autofs suggestion, that pertains to mounting disk/partition over NFS, on the client machine, I believe. I'm speaking about auto-mounting the encrypted partitions upon successful login of the NAS itself, which is running Debian |
| 19:46.00 | consolejazz | For that, it seems I need to add `/etc/fstab` entry and then another entry to `/etc/crypttab`, apparently |
| 19:46.01 | greycat | I don't do encrypted disks. How do you normally do such things? Just do whatever the normal procedure is. |
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| 19:46.53 | consolejazz | greycat: I have my individual workstation encrypted, however, I've not done this for a NAS or where I'm backing things up to encrypted volumes |
| 19:47.15 | greycat | Why would it be different on the server than it is on the workstation? |
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| 19:48.28 | consolejazz | My workstation is OS X and the NAS is running Debian. I plan to move my private $HOME files to the dm-crypt+LUKS partition from the Debian-based NAS |
| 19:49.54 | consolejazz | never used dm-crypt/LUKS, nor have I created any custom-rolled solution to incrementally backup one partitions filesystem to a duplicate partition, let alone both being encrypted |
| 19:50.34 | consolejazz | If there's a more appropriate forum to discuss backup/encryption matters, I'm all ears :) |
| 19:51.14 | greycat | Well, once they're both mounted, you can rsync from source to destination. I just don't know a damned thing about mounting them. |
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| 19:53.33 | consolejazz | Yes, I was considering rsyncing them. I know of tools like Duplicity (and the recent fork Borg), but I've not used them. I know they do encrypted, incremental backups. As for efficiently but securely mounting this stuff, yea, still figuring that out |
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| 19:54.36 | consolejazz | And I'm trying to understand how dangerous it might be if I, say, forgot to unmount (NFS) the NAS partition from my client machine before rebooting the NAS itself for some update, etc. |
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| 19:58.44 | StanislasP | Bonsoir a tous. |
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| 20:00.03 | StanislasP | J'aurais une simple question pour commencer. est il réellement nécessaire de séparer le /home de a racine / en les mettant dans des partitions séparer ? |
| 20:00.06 | greycat | !fr |
| 20:00.06 | dpkg | Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debianfr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debianfr. |
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| 20:00.30 | StanislasP | Ok :) Thanks. I go |
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| 20:00.57 | greycat | If I understand the question at all, "No, /home does not have to be a separate partition." But sometimes it's good to separate it, for example if you want to dual-boot multiple OSs and share /home among them. |
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| 20:01.56 | StanislasP | Thnaks for the answer. I try to improve my english with you :) |
| 20:01.58 | consolejazz | StanislasP: do you have a particular reason for not keeping to that convention? |
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| 20:02.14 | consolejazz | On va essayer de vous aider :) |
| 20:02.23 | consolejazz | mais, en anglais pour le moment |
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| 20:03.28 | StanislasP | I have a dual-boot Win10/Unix (Debian, Ubuntu can't support my pc) All my personnal data would go to a NAS so if I have to reinstall all, I can download all from the nas. |
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| 20:03.52 | StanislasP | So did I have to separate my / frome my /swap and my /home? |
| 20:04.02 | consolejazz | Not for personal data no |
| 20:04.13 | consolejazz | i.e., work, school files and such |
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| 20:04.38 | stairmast0r | hi guys. i keep having a problem where my static IP is getting overridden by DHCP every few hours. any ideas? |
| 20:04.53 | consolejazz | But there's files in say, `/etc` and `~/.config` that would additionally be worthwhile to have a copy of on your NAS |
| 20:05.00 | greycat | stairmast0r: then it's not a static IP. |
| 20:05.07 | StanislasP | And If not, How do I have to "partitionnate" manual for having a /swap and a / which taken all the reste of the data (i just find how to make 3 parts) |
| 20:05.16 | consolejazz | But don't *move* them to the NAS, just rsync copies to it |
| 20:06.10 | consolejazz | StanislasP: hm, I wouldn't worry much about that. That sort of stuff is handled during OS (re)install. Most important is to have backup copies of your personal files, any particular system config / dotfiles |
| 20:06.14 | stairmast0r | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:06.29 | StanislasP | Yep it's that I copy them to a NAS which copy them on an extra data-center |
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| 20:07.01 | consolejazz | Okay, so are you doing full-disk encryption then? |
| 20:07.19 | StanislasP | Not for the moment :) |
| 20:07.20 | consolejazz | *not encryption... *I mean backup |
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| 20:07.40 | consolejazz | full-disk backup versus filesystem (that is, just individual directories, files) backup |
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| 20:08.09 | greycat | stairmast0r: if you changed interfaces(5) from dhcp to static, but didn't kill the DHCP client daemon, then the client daemon will continue running and will happily clobber the static settings. Rebooting would fix it. |
| 20:08.15 | StanislasP | full-disk bacjup? No only the project of my job and my personnal data (documents, musics..;) |
| 20:08.18 | consolejazz | Mm, en effet, je ne comprends pas exactement votre question |
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| 20:10.00 | StanislasP | consolejazz > If it's not an obligation, How do I have to "partitionnated" during install to have a /swap of 4Go and the reste for the / racine ? |
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| 20:11.01 | stairmast0r | greycat: i've just now bludgeoned dhclient to death. will it come back on reboot? i couldn't find a service to disable |
| 20:11.17 | |_[O_O]_| | hai friends, why does grub2 pull legacy settings from menu.lst? |
| 20:11.27 | greycat | It is launched when you have dhcp lines in interfaces. |
| 20:11.45 | stairmast0r | ah so it's dead forever then. thank you :) |
| 20:11.50 | greycat | The "correct" way is to ifdown eth0 (and any other DHCP interfaces), which stops the daemon, *THEN* edit interfaces, then ifup eth0. |
| 20:11.57 | greycat | Of course nobody remembers to do that. |
| 20:12.25 | consolejazz | StanislasP: it depends upon your hardware. How much RAM in your system? |
| 20:12.36 | StanislasP | 8Go :) |
| 20:12.51 | StanislasP | 8Go DDR3 |
| 20:13.18 | StanislasP | But i have to create àswap i thik. |
| 20:13.31 | consolejazz | StanislasP: it's better to have it in my estimation |
| 20:13.53 | consolejazz | Ubuntu doc, but it's also recommended by those developers, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq#Why_do_I_need_swap.3F |
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| 20:14.12 | StanislasP | I think to create a /swap of 4Go and a / of the reste (~=350Go) |
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| 20:14.53 | StanislasP | But i juste view a tutorial which say to create the / a the begining then swap then home of the rest |
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| 20:15.30 | consolejazz | I'm not familiar with the order they should be created |
| 20:15.39 | greycat | It does not matter where the partitions are, relative to each other. |
| 20:15.40 | StanislasP | So I'm not sure of how can I swith them :) /swap in first then / and the swap have to be where at the begining or the and? |
| 20:15.44 | consolejazz | But as for the size of the swap, with 8Go, 4Go is just fine |
| 20:15.52 | greycat | You can put them anywhere on the disk. |
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| 20:16.30 | StanislasP | Ok. I try to try that and i will come back :) |
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| 20:17.24 | consolejazz | A plus |
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| 20:28.23 | CaptainStuhlgang | moin moin |
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| 20:29.59 | consolejazz | mdr |
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| 20:31.12 | StanislasP | Re |
| 20:31.25 | StanislasP | It's ok, the install has continue. |
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| 20:31.28 | StanislasP | :D |
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| 20:32.02 | telecity | hax |
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| 20:32.43 | consolejazz | StanislasP: felecitations |
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| 20:33.15 | SpeccyMan | felicitations |
| 20:33.20 | StanislasP | Right now I have to choose between gdm3 and kdm. The probleme now his: I have a wide screen (21:9 2050x1080 pixel) And i have ton install the driver of nvidia to use it properly. Which one his better for this? |
| 20:33.25 | consolejazz | s/felecitations/felicitations |
| 20:33.48 | StanislasP | (I'm a terribal man for the open-source :p) |
| 20:34.19 | StanislasP | consolejazz > SpeccyMan > Thanks :) |
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| 20:36.15 | consolejazz | StanislasP: je vous en prie |
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| 20:37.09 | pityu | hi 2 all! running #!++ on acer aspire ES 15 |
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| 20:37.10 | FarbrorAlBot | Free web host accounts at http://webgerencie.com.br/billing/xbilling/ |
| 20:37.10 | FarbrorAlBot | limited account go fast http://webgerencie.com.br/billing/xbilling/ |
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| 20:37.46 | consolejazz | Vi command discovery of the week: `ZZ` as replacement for `:wq!` |
| 20:38.11 | consolejazz | Let's toss in `:x` too |
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| 20:38.26 | StanislasP | consolejazz > Did you know which is better to choose betwen gdm3 and kdm for using a driver of nvidia? |
| 20:38.36 | |_[O_O]_| | consolejazz: how about something a little more useful - like multi-line insert via Visual mode |
| 20:39.07 | |_[O_O]_| | StanislasP: the driver wont care about your DM, i'm using i3wm with the nvidia drivers |
| 20:39.19 | consolejazz | |_[O_O]_|: oh yeah, but I knew about that not longer after coming upon the text editor. This is just my latest discovery, thought I'd pass along a little nugget |
| 20:39.31 | |_[O_O]_| | :D |
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| 20:39.38 | |_[O_O]_| | ever play with :tabe? |
| 20:39.44 | consolejazz | Nopers |
| 20:39.47 | |_[O_O]_| | give it a shot, much win |
| 20:39.48 | |_[O_O]_| | :tabe . |
| 20:39.56 | pityu | no , no the guy is right gdm3 a bit "laggy" on nVidia |
| 20:39.59 | |_[O_O]_| | if you've ever used tabs in a gui, its much the same way |
| 20:40.24 | |_[O_O]_| | gdm3 is just laggy in general, through no fault of the device driver |
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| 20:40.27 | consolejazz | |_[O_O]_|: thank you |
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| 20:40.34 | |_[O_O]_| | my pleasure :D |
| 20:40.35 | markybob | are we seriously calling gdm3 gnome3 now? c'mon people |
| 20:40.40 | StanislasP | |_[O_O]_| > Thanks. I have to find which is the difference between them. |
| 20:41.07 | |_[O_O]_| | mostly comes down to preference, I will note that an ungodly amount of applications require gtk -- PITA. |
| 20:41.16 | nkuttler | just use xdm. that's snappy |
| 20:41.21 | markybob | ugh |
| 20:41.26 | pityu | :-D |
| 20:41.45 | consolejazz | StanislasP: I recommend sticking with non-proprietary if you can at all |
| 20:42.20 | StanislasP | I have only choise betwwen gdm3 and kdm. |
| 20:42.37 | markybob | StanislasP: it's not gdm3. it's gnome3. gdm3 is a different thing |
| 20:42.47 | StanislasP | consolejazz > I'm pretty sure I can't whith the big wide screen I have. |
| 20:42.55 | markybob | and it's kde |
| 20:42.58 | telecity | what kind of sourcery is :tabe |
| 20:42.59 | markybob | but fuck it |
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| 20:43.38 | consolejazz | hm, they're both GPL |
| 20:44.01 | consolejazz | I'll be quiet.. I'm mostly running GNU/Linux on lowend systems. Headless too, generally |
| 20:44.01 | StanislasP | Nop, during installationg I choose gnome and kde and right now I have to choose between them. If I choose kdm i'm whith the startX of kde and gdm3 whith gnome3 ? |
| 20:44.07 | ArexR | television: you ended up being banned on #linux, what kind of noobery is that |
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| 20:44.47 | markybob | StanislasP: this is why we have a french channel. you're making no sense. |
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| 20:45.05 | nkuttler | StanislasP: either dm can launch either desktop environment |
| 20:45.17 | consolejazz | markybob: ah, he's doing all right, let the man practice his anglais |
| 20:45.38 | television | telecity: what? |
| 20:45.39 | pityu | no habla ingles :-D |
| 20:45.48 | consolejazz | I don't speak Mexican! |
| 20:45.56 | dtux | is the only option for getting libglm-dev=0.9.4.x on jessie (or glfw3 on wheezy) to build from source? |
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| 20:46.09 | dTal | to be fair #linux is a cesspit from what I remember |
| 20:46.21 | nkuttler | ,v libglm-dev |
| 20:46.22 | judd | Package: libglm-dev on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.9.3.3+dfsg-0.1; jessie: 0.9.5.4-1; sid: 0.9.7.4-1; stretch: 0.9.7.4-1 |
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| 20:46.41 | consolejazz | *which is actually called Nahuatl, so I just learned |
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| 20:46.48 | nkuttler | dtux: no 0.9.4 anywhere it seems |
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| 20:48.25 | consolejazz | StanislasP: yes, that sounds right |
| 20:48.46 | consolejazz | gdm3 will call up the GNOME 3 session manager |
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| 20:49.57 | pityu | can somebody point om part of code in WiCD Network Mannager responisble for reading state of laptop leed. RFKill (hard) problem |
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| 20:50.24 | dtux | nkuttler: really, i just need glfw3 + glm < 0.9.5 |
| 20:50.30 | dtux | ,v lib-glfw3-dev |
| 20:50.31 | judd | No package named 'lib-glfw3-dev' was found in amd64. |
| 20:50.39 | dtux | ,v libglfw3-dev |
| 20:50.41 | judd | Package: libglfw3-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 3.0.4-1; sid: 3.1.2-3; stretch: 3.1.2-3 |
| 20:50.51 | dtux | agh |
| 20:51.22 | dTal | pityu: have you tried turning it off and on again |
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| 20:51.38 | pityu | dtal: many times |
| 20:53.40 | pityu | only trick that works if close the leed , leave to sys go hyber and afher a few min VOALLLA , works |
| 20:53.44 | pityu | so anoing |
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| 20:56.18 | pityu | so hope too change the value in wicd will work permanent |
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| 20:58.47 | pityu | or disasseble the lappy and manualy bypass the switch :-D :-D :-D |
| 20:59.26 | consolejazz | What's your guys' views on filesystem stacked level encryption, ala eCryptfs or EncFS.. notably, for a home user that wishes to secure personal data |
| 20:59.39 | consolejazz | That compared to dm-crypt+LUKS |
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| 21:00.55 | telecity | dm-crypt+tresor |
| 21:01.32 | telecity | doesn't ecryptfs or encfs still rely on having the key in RAM? |
| 21:02.14 | telecity | tresor patches the linux kernel to use the AES-NI instruction set by having the decryption password stored in CPU registers |
| 21:03.34 | telecity | law enforcement sprays RAM with a coolant to get those "volatile" remnants off |
| 21:03.52 | telecity | since ages |
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| 21:09.50 | consolejazz | telecity: yes, I've read a bit about ecryptf/encfs not being as secure as dm-crypt |
| 21:10.21 | consolejazz | but in practice, curious how many people use filesystem level encryption and if thats sufficient for protecting against home theft of disk drive |
| 21:10.31 | consolejazz | *access by theif to data, that is |
| 21:10.35 | consolejazz | *thief, argh |
| 21:10.47 | telecity | consolejazz: I barely use windows because of this particular issue |
| 21:11.17 | telecity | consolejazz: I don't know of a way to encrypt the windows setup, apart from running windows in a linux VM |
| 21:11.22 | PadawanLearner | may the force be with you |
| 21:11.50 | telecity | consolejazz: to have the decryption key _not_ stored in RAM when operating Windows |
| 21:11.50 | consolejazz | telecity: sorry, you mean lack of ability to find any kind of meaningful encryption, filesystem or otherwise, for Windows? |
| 21:12.24 | consolejazz | Veracrypt containers offer some reasonable protection on Win? |
| 21:12.26 | telecity | consolejazz: sort of. encryption schemes for windows seem meaningless, unless the decryption key is not stored in RAM |
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| 21:13.20 | telecity | consolejazz: I just don't see any point, because the key is in RAM still |
| 21:14.12 | ryouma | this might be silly, but i don't know whether you can trust windows in the first place? |
| 21:14.36 | simonlnu | it's also really off-topic ;) |
| 21:14.50 | ryouma | yeah :) |
| 21:14.54 | consolejazz | aye |
| 21:15.07 | consolejazz | Getting back on topic, https://16chan.nl/tech/file/3275/1464088654-0.webm |
| 21:16.39 | telecity | how can I pipe the error stream (2) to grep, when my stdout goes to /dev/null? |
| 21:17.09 | ryouma | telecity: 2>&1 if you want both |
| 21:17.12 | simonlnu | don't null it? |
| 21:17.23 | telecity | ryouma: that's the thing, I only want the error fd |
| 21:17.32 | telecity | simonlnu: need to :) |
| 21:17.38 | telecity | simonlnu: false positives otherwise |
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| 21:18.51 | telecity | command 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep 'something' |
| 21:19.01 | telecity | dafu.. didn't realize this would work |
| 21:19.16 | telecity | or not |
| 21:19.18 | telecity | :) |
| 21:20.02 | telecity | piping after redirection though |
| 21:20.17 | ryouma | yup, it works. but as usual bash requires trial and error |
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| 21:24.41 | floor13 | running into some stability issues running Kodi on a Jessie box. I'm downgrading to wheezy. Is it as simple as s/jessie/wheezy/g sources.list and an update + dist-upgrade? |
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| 21:29.00 | Gerowen | I now have two computers running Debian 8 that when you try to log in graphically from the login screen, just blink black for a few seconds and kick back out to the login screen. One is running 32 bit with bone stock repositories, one is 64 bit with jessie-backports added. Is there some sort of regression going on or something? |
| 21:29.08 | Brigo | floor13, downgrading is not supporting and it isn't going to work. |
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| 21:29.19 | SerajewelKS | floor13: dist-upgrade will not downgrade packages |
| 21:29.36 | SerajewelKS | floor13: installing older versions of packages over newer versions is not supported and could break your system |
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| 21:30.26 | floor13 | thanks Brigo SerajewelKS , good thing I asked. |
| 21:30.45 | Brigo | floor13, np |
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| 21:37.23 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Is there a truly rolling distribution based on Debian Testing? I looked into SolydXK, but it turns out to be semi-rolling and based on the Stable branch. |
| 21:38.57 | KapiteinStoelgan | Debian Sid |
| 21:39.09 | KapiteinStoelgan | Ubuntu 6-months-releases |
| 21:39.14 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Isn't that the Unstable branch though? |
| 21:39.21 | KapiteinStoelgan | it is |
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| 21:39.40 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Ubuntu isn't a rolling distro as far I know though. |
| 21:39.47 | tharkun | Heart-Of-A-Lion: If you want Debian testing, you will only get that product when you download Debian Testing, Anything else will be based on Stable and have some pinches of Testing and Even Sid |
| 21:40.09 | StanislasP | Rha... Grub won't list my windows partition... |
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| 21:41.42 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Aha, okay, in that case I'm looking for a truly rolling Debian distribution, which isn't based on the unstable branch. (thus stable) |
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| 21:42.37 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | It would be great if Debian itself had a truly rolling branch, that wasn't Unstable. |
| 21:43.05 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I know that there have been discussions about this since 2012, but I guess it hasn't happened yet. |
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| 21:46.35 | menace | huh? i do not get it. why is debian unstable not a rolling release? |
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| 21:48.32 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | It is rolling, however it's too unstable for every day use, is it not? |
| 21:48.56 | menace | then why don't you use debian testing? |
| 21:49.10 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Testing isn't a rolling branch |
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| 21:49.31 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I'm looking for Debian based on a rolling release model |
| 21:49.45 | menace | what does rolling mean for you? there are always updates in testing when there's no freeze interval |
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| 21:50.59 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Rolling for me means: Install once and then never again, because everything is constantly updated. Packages, kernel, graphics drivers, etc. Everything. |
| 21:51.31 | nkuttler | sounds pretty much like testing |
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| 21:51.44 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: is there something about Testing that you object to? |
| 21:51.55 | menace | sounds like testing for me.. |
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| 21:52.31 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | No, there's nothing about Testing that I object to. :) It's just that I read that only the Unstable branch is truly rolling, while Testing isn't. |
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| 21:52.41 | tharkun | Heart-Of-A-Lion: According to your definition Debian stable is rolling. |
| 21:53.16 | nkuttler | Heart-Of-A-Lion: btw, if you always want the latest software not even sid will do for you |
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| 21:53.34 | tharkun | I have machines that had debian installed 8 years ago and they have only been upgraded. |
| 21:54.13 | cruncher | once i checked what distro has really the latest software, and from my list of needed software, i coulndt find one that had all the latest software |
| 21:54.18 | tharkun | And the only reinstalls have been when hw failed misserably, (hdd to be precise) |
| 21:54.24 | menace | well according to his definition debian stable is not rolling in my view |
| 21:54.30 | cruncher | Heart-Of-A-Lion, that is not the definition of rolling release |
| 21:54.45 | menace | because the updates stop after some years. |
| 21:55.11 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I'm coming from Manjaro/Arch, which gives users a truly rolling experience. I'm looking for a Debian version of that experience. |
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| 21:55.23 | cruncher | basically, if it has no "versions" its rolling, unstable is a pseudo rolling release, stable isnt at all. Gentoo, Arch are the most known rolling releases |
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| 21:56.04 | dTal | Heart-Of-A-Lion: that's not really the Debian experience... which features from Debian do you particularly miss in Arch? |
| 21:56.15 | menace | i do not think debian will help you tehre... |
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| 21:56.46 | cruncher | i use sid, and the difference of the latest and the sid versions is minimal |
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| 21:57.38 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | The only feature I miss from Arch is the amount of architectures that it supports. Arch supports x86_64/i686 and ARM. Debian supports a much longer list of architectures, which is convenient for installing it on embedded systems. |
| 21:57.48 | dTal | the thing that allows Arch to be so bleeding edge is the PKGBUILD concept, which automates building packages from upstream - maybe what you want is something like NixOS's unstable channel? |
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| 21:58.27 | dTal | That's intruiging, *86 and ARM cover 99.99% of use cases nowadays |
| 21:58.43 | dTal | you hacking on an old imac G3 or somethin? |
| 21:59.12 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | No, I just like my system to have broad capabilities, just in case I want to fiddle. |
| 21:59.26 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Debian offers it all, except I haven't been able to find a truly rolling version of it like Arch. |
| 21:59.50 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I can't imagine that it doesn't exist though. |
| 21:59.55 | rainfyre | it doesn't |
| 22:00.00 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Really? |
| 22:00.00 | rainfyre | that's not how it works bro |
| 22:00.07 | rainfyre | testing is semi-rolling |
| 22:00.17 | sulfyr | Heart-Of-A-Lion: http://fixmynix.com/debian-rolling-release-distribution-list/ |
| 22:00.19 | rainfyre | you're working with a different release-cycle philosophy than arch |
| 22:00.32 | rainfyre | fundamentally different with a different end-goal |
| 22:00.43 | rainfyre | stability vs bleeding edge |
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| 22:01.00 | rainfyre | technically semi-rolling is as close as you're going to find |
| 22:01.25 | rainfyre | and that's because testing freezes periodically |
| 22:01.27 | dTal | See I don't see why we can't have it both ways - stable OS, bleeding edge user programs |
| 22:01.34 | dTal | you know, like Microsoft :p |
| 22:01.38 | rainfyre | lol |
| 22:02.02 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | dTal, that's the concept of Manjaro, however Manjaro is based on Arch. |
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| 22:02.27 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I'm looking for something like Manjaro, but then based on Debian. Truly rolling, yet stable. |
| 22:02.40 | dTal | that's pretty much how I run my Debian systems - I don't care about having the very latest libwhatever, but I'll build the latest Blender if I need it |
| 22:02.49 | dTal | would just be nice to not have to build it |
| 22:02.54 | rainfyre | dTal: exactly |
| 22:03.05 | rainfyre | just build the latest versions of what you want the latest version of |
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| 22:03.22 | dTal | but building things is a pain |
| 22:03.28 | rainfyre | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_release might be informative Heart-Of-A-Lion |
| 22:03.43 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Yes, I've read that Wiki page. :) |
| 22:04.01 | dTal | incidentally Python always used to give me hell on debian because of the whole pip vs apt thing, but pypi-install is wonderful |
| 22:04.22 | dTal | I only mention it because nobody seems to know about it but it solves the whole issue (I hate virtualenvs) |
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| 22:05.24 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: this is the link i meant to post, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_distribution |
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| 22:05.38 | dTal | all we really need is a little more infrastructure, no reason you couldn't set up a server that built, say, Arch pkgbuilds against Debian Stable and gave you a repo to pin |
| 22:05.42 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I know, I'm looking at it now. :) |
| 22:05.58 | dTal | I don't really understand how all this infrastructure gets paid for right now as it is |
| 22:06.03 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | The thing is that that page doesn't list of all the Debian based rolling distros, which one is truly rolling. |
| 22:06.13 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | It only says that SolyXK is semi-rolling |
| 22:06.39 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | semi-rolling means that parts of the system don't get updated, which defeats the purpose of a rolling distro in my opinion. |
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| 22:07.12 | dTal | which is? |
| 22:08.05 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | To install an OS once and then never again, because everything gets updated, without exception. |
| 22:08.27 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | An OS that gets updates for everything, except the kernel and drivers, well that's kind of disappointing. |
| 22:08.31 | dTal | ironically my experience with Arch was precisely the opposite |
| 22:09.12 | dTal | forget to update for a few weeks, then either update and everything breaks, or after a few times of that don't update at all |
| 22:09.30 | dTal | then come back years later and realise if you try and update now the computer will explode |
| 22:09.34 | dTal | so you reinstall |
| 22:10.04 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | On Manjaro that doesn't happen, because Manjaro is Arch with an Unstable and Testing phase between package releases. Which means that packages arrive two weaks later than on Arch, but stable. |
| 22:10.47 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I'm looking for something similar based on Debian, but it might be difficult at this point. |
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| 22:11.20 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I'm sure it will be created at some point, if not by the Debian developers themselves, as I read that this has been discussed since 2012. |
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| 22:12.19 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Either creating an extra branch or replacing Testing. For example: Unstable, Testing, Rolling, Stable |
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| 22:13.08 | rainfyre | how would rolling roll when testing is frozen? |
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| 22:14.12 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | It doesn't matter if testing is frozen, it then just takes a bit longer for the updates to arrive at Rolling. But it would allow for a truly rolling version of Debian, which would be stable enough for daily use. |
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| 22:14.37 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Similar to Manjaro, but based on Debian instead of Arch. |
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| 22:14.57 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | However for Manjaro there are only two weeks between Unstable and Stable |
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| 22:16.35 | sulfyr | What about gentoo? Rolling and many supported architectures |
| 22:17.29 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | You are right, Gentoo is a good contender too, but it takes a long time to compile and entire update cycle of all installed packages. Could take a day even on a fast machine. |
| 22:17.32 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: it seems like you don't quite understand what you're talking about. Taking a little longer to arrive at rolling (months during freeze) defeats the purpose |
| 22:18.15 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | It doesn't defeat the purpose. Which is: Install once - and then never again, because everything gets updated. |
| 22:18.22 | dTal | TO be fair there is a difference between a few months out of date and a few years out of date, that's not *quit* "defeating the purpose" |
| 22:18.32 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Exactly. |
| 22:18.34 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: why not run testing in that case? |
| 22:18.47 | dTal | compared to Debian, Ubuntu is rolling release |
| 22:18.56 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Because Testing isn't truly rolling like Debian Unstable. |
| 22:19.07 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | But Unstable is..well, unstable. |
| 22:19.16 | rainfyre | dTal: i meant waiting a few months for updates in a rolling release ... isn't rolling anymore. it's semi-rolling or cyclic-rolling, not true rolling |
| 22:19.36 | koollman | it's not rolling. merely a faster cycle |
| 22:19.57 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Semi-rolling means that not all packages get updated. For example a semi-rolling distro doesn;t update its kernel and graphics drivers. |
| 22:20.16 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Truly rolling means that EVERYTHING gets updated. |
| 22:20.24 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Not just parts of the system. |
| 22:20.43 | koollman | I do not agree much with that definition |
| 22:20.47 | rainfyre | testing doesn't get kernel and driver updates? |
| 22:20.52 | sulfyr | Heart-Of-A-Lion: It's possible to use precompiled binaries on gentoo |
| 22:21.05 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | sulfyr, that sounds interesting |
| 22:21.42 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Is that repository just as big as the one based on uncompiled source code? |
| 22:22.09 | koollman | rolling (to me) means there are no 'steps' for changing versions of software. they are done when they are done. non-rolling (release) means there is a defined step, when the version change happens for many packages |
| 22:22.18 | koollman | cycle means the step is regular |
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| 22:23.32 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | koollman yes, however there are quite a few semi-rolling distros out there, which don't update all the parts of the distro. I know that Arch, Manjaro and Gentoo do update everything though, truly everything. |
| 22:23.33 | koollman | usually, rolling means you keep your package close to upstream version but always have changes in behavior, release means you are always late compared to upstream but there is a defined upgrade step |
| 22:23.54 | koollman | and cycle means you know when the step will happen :) |
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| 22:24.55 | koollman | I wouldn't like rolling release for any kind of production system. Or not with a debian-like packaging system. at least gentoo has version slots to chose from a few versions ... sometimes |
| 22:25.34 | koollman | but I guess one can adapt its production system to this kind of things, with effort |
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| 22:26.48 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Yes, however if you look at truly rolling distros like Manjaro, Arch and Gentoo, then they update everything. While some semi-rolling distros only update particular parts, not everything. A rolling Debian distro based on Stable would also take 3 years to fully update. A little bit faster would be great, which is why a rolling distro based on Debian Testing would be great. |
| 22:27.18 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Maybe Sparky Linux offers that, not sure. I'm also not sure which architectures it supports, but it's based on Debian. Probably the Testing branch. |
| 22:27.39 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: why not just run testing? |
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| 22:27.55 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: it's pretty 'stable' |
| 22:27.58 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Because it's not truly rolling rainfyre. |
| 22:27.59 | sulfyr | Heart-Of-A-Lion: I don't know but I would assume it's not (especially if you use exotic architectures) - good question for #gentoo |
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| 22:28.13 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Unstable is truly Rolling. |
| 22:28.19 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | But it is too unstable. |
| 22:28.23 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: how would a branch based off of it be MORE rolling then? |
| 22:28.48 | rainfyre | I know it's not true rolling, I've been running it for years heh |
| 22:28.48 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Good point. |
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| 22:29.31 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Maybe this is why this has been under discussion among the Debian devs since 2012. |
| 22:29.32 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: so you're concerned that you won't have the latest kernel and drivers? |
| 22:30.21 | rainfyre | it's pretty simple to pull in the latest kernel from sid |
| 22:30.24 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | I wouldn't mind being 3 months behind on kernels and drivers, however 3 years is a bit harsh I think. |
| 22:31.00 | rainfyre | testing doesn't ever get updated drivers? can anyone here confirm that? |
| 22:31.41 | zinx | rainfyre: it gets them... a few weeks after sid |
| 22:31.50 | rainfyre | that's exactly what i thought zinx |
| 22:32.18 | rainfyre | it gets kernel updates too right? |
| 22:32.38 | zinx | depends on package status :/ |
| 22:32.48 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Sparky Linux claims to offer Debian Testing as a rolling release. However I wonder if it's truly rolling. |
| 22:32.49 | zinx | and if there's a freeze or whatnot |
| 22:33.20 | rainfyre | zinx right, i meant assuming there's no freeze happening. |
| 22:33.30 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | In my opinion there is little point to a semi-rolling distro. You would have to reinstall it eventually. |
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| 22:34.05 | dTal | what gets me is dist-upgrades are a *little* sketchy in Debian based distros |
| 22:34.17 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | Yes, I agree. |
| 22:34.20 | rainfyre | Heart-Of-A-Lion: dude you never have to reinstall testing |
| 22:34.21 | dTal | just a bit, expected to be more so than regular updates |
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| 22:34.29 | zinx | uhm |
| 22:34.35 | dTal | but rolling distros are effectively dist-upgrading ALL THE TIME |
| 22:34.42 | zinx | you're supposed to read the release notes. if you follow the upgrade section, it should be fine. |
| 22:34.50 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | dTal, yes. |
| 22:35.01 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | That's the beauty of it. |
| 22:35.08 | dTal | yeah I know I'm supposed to read the release notes. What am I, a guy with time? Bad practice to blame the user |
| 22:35.14 | dTal | this is #debian, not #arch |
| 22:35.27 | zinx | the release notes exist for a reason. |
| 22:35.39 | zinx | if you're too lazy to read them, then that is indeed your problem as a user. |
| 22:36.00 | dTal | release notes + rolling distro = constantly reading release notes |
| 22:36.21 | rainfyre | but hey, you always have the NEWEST packages .. |
| 22:36.23 | zinx | there are no release notes for sid, and testing isn't intended to be run except for people testing for release |
| 22:36.29 | rainfyre | ^^ |
| 22:36.31 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | That's true for Arch. Manjaro takes that issue away. Perhaps Sparky Linux does the same for Debian Testing. |
| 22:36.39 | dTal | I think, zinx, we are talking at cross purposes |
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| 22:36.52 | zinx | if you run unstable, you're expected to follow the mailing list(s), and know how to fix your system when it breaks. |
| 22:37.01 | dTal | you refer to the release notes of dist-upgrading, I suspect? |
| 22:37.12 | zinx | (also, support for testing/unstable is on #debian-next on irc.oftc.net IIRC) |
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| 22:37.21 | zinx | dTal: no. |
| 22:37.22 | dTal | because yes, I can find the time to read those. Comes but once a few years. |
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| 22:38.10 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | It seems like Sparky Linux is Debian Testing on a rolling release model: http://sparkylinux.org/about/ |
| 22:38.19 | zinx | dTal: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.html for example. |
| 22:38.21 | dTal | Oh. Well, if you have time to permanently manage an OS and let that be a part of your mindshare all the time, go ahead and run Arch |
| 22:38.30 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | There is only one piece of info missing on that website and that's whether it's truly rolling or semi-rolling. |
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| 22:38.37 | Heart-Of-A-Lion | If it's truly rolling, then that's amazing. |
| 22:38.38 | dTal | I'll let the Debian devs do my management for me |
| 22:38.41 | zinx | dTal: if you don't have the time, then don't run unstable. you shouldn't be running testing anyway. |
| 22:38.56 | dTal | I don't. I run stable. |
| 22:39.08 | zinx | then there should be no problem updating. |
| 22:39.23 | dTal | I can't figure out what, or if, we're arguing about here |
| 22:39.28 | zinx | Heart-Of-A-Lion: based on debian != debian |
| 22:39.30 | rainfyre | you're not arguing |
| 22:40.03 | dTal | I feel like zinx took exception to something I said somewhere but it seems we agree on all points |
| 22:40.34 | zinx | <dTal> what gets me is dist-upgrades are a *little* sketchy in Debian based distros |
| 22:40.36 | rainfyre | i think there may have been a misunderstanding, you're both providing information from slightly different viewpoints |
| 22:40.40 | zinx | i think i missed the 'based' part |
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| 22:44.32 | dTal | I took great care to hedge on that statement, I was sure someone was going to chime in and go "no it all works perfectly!!" |
| 22:44.36 | dTal | evidently I was not wrong |
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| 22:45.05 | dTal | the *point* is that rolling releases are always dist-upgrading |
| 22:45.22 | zinx | dTal: sorry, i assumed you were talking about debian, as we're in #debian. i was wrong. |
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| 22:47.09 | penrod | greetings, which is best tool to delete a partion and then create again on a live system ? (no, it isn't the boot partion) it is the 3rd partion and can be larger. A running system was just cloned (using clonezilla) to a new hard drive ( raid 1) and the 3rd partiton is giving me grief. I am familiar with fdisk, and just checking to see if there is anything better/newer |
| 22:47.37 | zinx | penrod: live distro tends to be best for that |
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| 22:49.05 | zinx | penrod: if it's not a partition required for rescue mode to operate (i.e., no system files, including boot, /lib, /*bin, /usr/lib, /usr/*bin, etc etc), then you can unmount the partition and use one of the fdisk/cfdisk style tools.. just make sure you only touch that partition. |
| 22:49.06 | penrod | I thought it would be easier to do it on a live system, as the 3rd partition isn't being used for anything yet. I don't see any benefit of booting off the live distro, is there tools there that aren't available on the "live system" |
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| 22:49.43 | penrod | zinx: I can do that now, as long as I don't confuse /dev/sda1 for /dev/sda3 |
| 22:49.58 | zinx | penrod: note that you may need to reboot to get the partition table to be reread, not sure |
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| 22:51.16 | penrod | zinx, ah I see, the "live system" sees the partition now, however I don't think the partiton is as large as it could be. |
| 22:51.29 | penrod | and my spelling is sub par today |
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| 22:52.43 | TheSin | anyone get gitlab in sid to install? I keep getting errors it's making me nuts. I've got it working like once out of 10 tries |
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| 22:53.26 | TheSin | it seems like every error I get is in the Bug DB, but have little to no info on a fix for it |
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| 23:09.46 | stoned | What's a really good lightweight gui email client |
| 23:10.27 | sweettea | mutt |
| 23:10.32 | stoned | I alrady use it |
| 23:10.38 | stoned | it's not gui/X etc. |
| 23:10.39 | sweettea | you win |
| 23:10.44 | sweettea | i use thunderbird |
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| 23:10.48 | sweettea | not thrilled by it |
| 23:10.51 | stoned | How heavy is that? |
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| 23:11.03 | sweettea | idk how to quantify it's weight |
| 23:11.24 | sweettea | alas i use mutt with imap and thunderbird when i need to do attachments |
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| 23:13.21 | markybob | stoned: my favorite is geary. really light. |
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| 23:18.36 | stoned | yup |
| 23:18.42 | stoned | I just setup like 5 of my email accounts in it |
| 23:18.44 | stoned | It's very nice actually |
| 23:19.25 | stoned | gmail/yahoo/hotmail alrady built in, and them domains/mx stuffs easy peasy. |
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| 23:21.18 | JamieDimon | Molly-guard is awesome. |
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| 23:29.02 | nikitis | Does debian 8 jessie come with firewalld? |
| 23:29.50 | dTal | seems like it |
| 23:29.57 | nikitis | Is it in use? |
| 23:30.02 | nikitis | or just there ready to be used? |
| 23:30.21 | nikitis | cause i didn't forward a port |
| 23:30.28 | nikitis | and it's allowing traffic in |
| 23:30.37 | nikitis | forward/open i mean |
| 23:31.12 | markybob | nikitis: it's not installed by default. you have to install/configure it yourself |
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| 23:31.26 | nikitis | Markybob, thanks, all I needed to know |
| 23:31.58 | nikitis | I wrote a Minecraft server installer for CentOS7. And now i'm porting it over to Debian. |
| 23:32.06 | telecity | firewalld? |
| 23:32.15 | nikitis | systemd included firewall |
| 23:32.26 | telecity | oh shit |
| 23:32.27 | nikitis | like iptables, but a replacement for it, |
| 23:32.41 | nikitis | It's actually simpler to use imo |
| 23:32.48 | telecity | simpler than ufw? |
| 23:32.57 | nikitis | haven't used ufw |
| 23:33.06 | nikitis | simpler than iptables |
| 23:33.18 | telecity | ufw is a wrapper over iptables, what could be simpler |
| 23:33.32 | nikitis | When enabled, everything is blocked, and you just open what you want as you need it with simpler one liners |
| 23:33.40 | telecity | yes, that's what ufw does |
| 23:33.48 | telecity | sets the default policy to DROP |
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| 23:33.58 | telecity | iptables -P INPUT DROP |
| 23:34.03 | nikitis | it also can create zones with firewalld |
| 23:34.09 | telecity | ufw too |
| 23:34.21 | telecity | ufw comes installed as a dep I think |
| 23:34.24 | nikitis | Probably the RPM answer |
| 23:34.27 | markybob | nikitis: yeah but move to #debian-offtopic if you don't have support questions please |
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| 23:34.54 | telecity | markybob: asshole |
| 23:35.05 | telecity | but you have me on /ignore you won't see this |
| 23:35.32 | nikitis | markybob: i was discussing with someone you had have muted |
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| 23:36.21 | telecity | god damn systemd is like another os in the debian os |
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| 23:37.48 | nikitis | Yeah that would be a topic for off-topic |
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| 23:38.23 | nikitis | i dont disagree though |
| 23:38.48 | telecity | feeling comfortable in iptables alone |
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| 23:41.41 | foul_owl | How do I install xv in debian? |
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| 23:59.30 | siloxid | in gnome, there is some kind of touchpad gesture that makes all my windows zoom out and display in a row. how can I disable this? I don't see any way in the Settings |
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