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| 00:07.31 | \\Mr_C\\ | can debian display images from console if there is no desktop manager installed? |
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| 00:10.10 | vlt | \\Mr_C\\: Iâd say yes but donât know exactly how. |
| 00:10.26 | somiaj | there are ways to display images in framebuffers, though with kms modules now more common a lot of the framebuffer info is outdated. |
| 00:10.37 | vlt | something something framebuffer |
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| 00:20.05 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch frozen 2017-02-05; /msg dpkg stretch freeze | Unwanted private messages? /umode +R | point release 8.7 of Debian Jessie released! /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.7; /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie ; /msg dpkg install jessie | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:26.28 | cef | \\Mr_C\\: do you just want images? If so, look at the 'fbi' package |
| 00:26.45 | \\Mr_C\\ | yea |
| 00:26.48 | \\Mr_C\\ | just installed it |
| 00:26.50 | \\Mr_C\\ | and it works |
| 00:26.54 | cef | :D |
| 00:26.58 | \\Mr_C\\ | cool, thanks |
| 00:27.17 | \\Mr_C\\ | feh dont work though |
| 00:27.22 | cef | I've also used directvnc before... |
| 00:27.24 | \\Mr_C\\ | is that for xwindows only? |
| 00:27.48 | cef | thought it was direct to framebuffer |
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| 00:30.05 | cef | \\Mr_C\\: I might be thinking of a different app than fbi |
| 00:31.45 | \\Mr_C\\ | can it play videos too? |
| 00:31.47 | \\Mr_C\\ | like mpg? |
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| 00:32.59 | \\Mr_C\\ | yea |
| 00:33.12 | \\Mr_C\\ | fbi without anything extra |
| 00:33.22 | \\Mr_C\\ | will show photos |
| 00:33.28 | Brigo | there was an application called zgv ages ago :D |
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| 00:33.44 | cef | yeah only copy of zgv now is X based. :( |
| 00:34.42 | cef | there's libdirectfb-bin and libdirectfb-extras, but dunno if there is tools that do video. |
| 00:34.42 | Brigo | if the program supports SVGAlib, you can use it in console, like mplayer2. |
| 00:34.59 | Brigo | cef, video is very difficult |
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| 00:35.21 | Brigo | cef, you lose all acceleration. |
| 00:35.22 | cef | Brigo: I know.. |
| 00:38.40 | cef | mplayer2 supports the DirectFB lib |
| 00:39.02 | cef | mplayer2 --vo=directfb |
| 00:39.28 | cef | probably need directfb-bin and directfb-extra installed. |
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| 01:03.28 | Papillon | so netinst isn't letting me make my root partition bootable... |
| 01:05.39 | Papillon | I'm thinking creating a bootable partition while installing debian would be a plus |
| 01:06.23 | Papillon | am I going to have to alt tab and partition from the command line? |
| 01:08.20 | somiaj | what do you mean by bootable? The bootable flag really doesn't do much when using a bootloader like grub |
| 01:08.38 | sypher | Papillon: How big is the disk? |
| 01:08.48 | Papillon | 3tb |
| 01:08.57 | Papillon | is boot flag not a thing with the new format thing |
| 01:09.00 | Papillon | gpft or whatever |
| 01:09.01 | sypher | Papillon: That means you're automatically using GPT, which doesn't have a bootable flag. |
| 01:09.23 | somiaj | Papillon: the boot flag wasn't much of a thing outside of the standard mbr which linux didn't normally use. |
| 01:09.39 | sypher | Papillon: That also means you need to create a small partition (1 MB) at the start of the disk and set it to "BIOS reserved," or it will most likely fail to boot. |
| 01:09.48 | sypher | Papillon: Unless you're using EFI. |
| 01:11.42 | Papillon | does the format matter? should it be some form of fat? |
| 01:11.55 | sypher | Papillon: Are you doing an EFI install, or not? |
| 01:12.10 | Papillon | probably bios, it's a core 2 duo box |
| 01:12.20 | sypher | Papillon: Are we talking about that first small partition? |
| 01:12.26 | Papillon | yes |
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| 01:13.18 | sypher | Papillon: If you set the type to BIOS reserved, it won't give you any other options. It's not designed to house a filesystem. |
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| 01:19.50 | ryouma | i want to increase the volume higher than max. is this possible? many source material videos are too soft. for example, on youtube. |
| 01:20.33 | Papillon | vlc can do that I think |
| 01:20.44 | somiaj | or get an external amp, and increase it that way |
| 01:20.58 | ryouma | Papillon: good idea, but can i do it when i am just browsing around youtube too? |
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| 01:21.29 | ryouma | i don't want to get more hardware |
| 01:21.51 | Papillon | I think there have been times when you can view youtube videos through vlc |
| 01:22.05 | Papillon | but I think sometimes youtube changes things and it stops working |
| 01:22.09 | ryouma | Papillon: but i'm in firefox, and i just want to watch |
| 01:22.59 | Papillon | you might be able to get firefox to use vlc as it's codec and it's possible, although unlikely, that you could do it that way but I doubt it |
| 01:23.07 | Papillon | if you want a video to be louder try opening it in vlc |
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| 01:23.54 | somiaj | you can use youtube-dl |
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| 01:29.41 | Papillon | so xfce, cinnamon, mate, and lxde... are any of those a minimalist window manager? |
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| 01:30.27 | bazhang | did you mean DE |
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| 01:31.49 | Papillon | well I'm not looking for everything a typical de like gnome or kde has, but sure |
| 01:33.05 | somiaj | Papillon: none, you want a more minimuilst window manager, debian has tons of those i3, openbox, fluxbox, ratposion, fvwm, awseomwm, twm, and many more |
| 01:33.13 | bazhang | so your real question is: what are the lightest de? |
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| 01:33.34 | bazhang | wm is something else |
| 01:33.51 | somiaj | Papillon: xfce, cinnamon, mate and lxde are still DE's, mate is basically gnome 2, cinimon is a gnome-shell fork of some type, xfce and lxde would be the lightest, with lxde the lightest in the de dpeartment. |
| 01:34.21 | Papillon | thanks |
| 01:34.30 | bazhang | Papillon, just go for the super lightest, and make it cli only |
| 01:34.53 | Papillon | CLIs are for people who can't interface with a computer through binary |
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| 01:37.27 | ryouma | afaik youtube-dl means you copy the url and paste it onto the command line and then type youtube-dl and then hit enter? i wonder if thaere is an extension for firefox that just launches vlc |
| 01:38.07 | ryouma | debian has a ton of de and wm. you can go online to compare their memory footprint. |
| 01:38.14 | somiaj | there are extensions from firefox you can download youtube using some button on the page |
| 01:40.00 | ryouma | somiaj: i frequently cannot use the keyboard. so then i would have to know when it has finished dling and then a script launched from menu to run it when it has dled. the knowng when done might be problematic. |
| 01:40.22 | ryouma | so i'm guessing the answer is: no, in linux or debian, there is no increasing the volume more than max |
| 01:40.34 | Papillon | it may be possible |
| 01:41.46 | awal1 | 'pulseaudio' lets you increase volume much more than max |
| 01:41.46 | somiaj | just get some speakers with an external amplifier. |
| 01:42.31 | ryouma | somiaj: need to avoid hardware solutions |
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| 01:42.51 | awal1 | 'pasystray' is the a nice frontend for pulse |
| 01:43.16 | awal1 | well, I haven't followed your topic, sorry if I'm completely "out" |
| 01:44.24 | ryouma | i purged pulseaudio because it produced sound only about half the time. without pulseaudio, sound is perfect. except for this volume issue. |
| 01:44.35 | ryouma | pulseaudio was random in its behavior |
| 01:45.06 | Papillon | https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=alsa+volume+boost |
| 01:45.10 | awal1 | ryouma, pulse have been largely improved now |
| 01:45.23 | petn-randall | ryouma: You can't have more than one program generating sound though, unless you sound card supports multiple inputs. |
| 01:45.36 | awal1 | it works fine under sid/stretch, compared to jessie/wheezy |
| 01:45.54 | ryouma | petn-randall: dunno, sound works great on jessie without pulseaudio, and i never needed any of its features |
| 01:46.23 | petn-randall | ryouma: I guess you have such a soundcard then. |
| 01:46.41 | Papillon | AFAIK ALSA can't do this directly to output, buuut you can add a preamp to increase the input volume |
| 01:46.52 | Papillon | http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/adding-an-alsa-software-pre-amp-to-fix-low-sound-levels/ |
| 01:46.53 | ryouma | petn-randall: multiple inputs? i dont have any inputs into my sound card other than the computer itself. no microphones etc. |
| 01:47.01 | Papillon | http://blog.tpa.me.uk/2013/10/23/alsa-pre-amp-volume-boost-the-simple-explanation/ |
| 01:47.11 | ryouma | and if i play 2 videos they both make sound. not that i want that. |
| 01:47.30 | Papillon | inputs as in sound sources, e.g. firefox is one input, vlc is a second, what if they play sound at the same time, that sound has to be mixed into one output |
| 01:48.31 | Papillon | so if you're like, running a 80x86 with an IBM sound option card you may be SOL |
| 01:48.38 | ryouma | Papillon: thanks those links look like maybe they are what i want, not sure yet |
| 01:48.43 | Papillon | music feature card, sorry |
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| 01:49.41 | danblack | has anyone reported the 403 errors on https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/index.en.html (or know how to remedy them quickly)? |
| 01:50.59 | centrx | What errors? |
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| 01:51.22 | Papillon | 8088 |
| 01:51.33 | danblack | 403 permission denied |
| 01:51.37 | Papillon | it loads for me |
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| 01:55.37 | sypher | Loads without issue for me. |
| 01:57.31 | danblack | https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/Dzx2vTkOaeU8U7Mr2jZ-m15M1UNdIGYhyRLivL9gydE= not for me. |
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| 02:00.45 | danblack | looking at dns it appears its mirrored |
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| 02:14.21 | Papillon | so if I installed lilo on gpt it would fail to boot? |
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| 02:22.53 | Papillon | how do I figure out how many poweron hours a hard drive has? |
| 02:23.27 | bazhang | ##hardware Papillon |
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| 02:26.23 | newcoder | linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.1-rt-686-pae , what is rt here? |
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| 02:26.56 | bazhang | realtime |
| 02:27.05 | newcoder | What does it do? |
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| 02:27.50 | Papillon | realtime kernels are designed to give you a soft guarantee of response time |
| 02:29.00 | newcoder | Papillon: What is 'soft guarantee of response time'? |
| 02:29.54 | danblack | Papillon: smartctl -a /dev/sdX - its one of the attributes |
| 02:30.33 | Papillon | there are different types of realtime systems. Take, for instance, a anti-lock brake system. It needs to measure whether or not a wheel is slipping and it needs to produce the appropriate signal very quickly, but, more importantly, it needs to do it on a predictible schedule. |
| 02:30.53 | Papillon | if you're making an anti-lock brake system, you determine a minimum response time |
| 02:31.21 | Papillon | so for that, you need a hard realtime system, to make sure that your sensing of wheel slip, and your control of braking is reliable enough |
| 02:31.41 | Papillon | but not all real time systems have such important requirements |
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| 02:32.22 | Papillon | for less important systems you can use a soft realtime system, for, for instance, audio recording, where you still want a reliable response time, but have more flexibility |
| 02:33.02 | Papillon | people don't die if you record a noise one one hundredth of a second later than you wanted to |
| 02:35.32 | Papillon | generally realtime systems are good if you need them (you're doing audio recording) but bad if you're not, because they make your system slower to reserve time for things that have realtime requirements |
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| 03:14.15 | dgriffi | anyone here use MATE and recently upgrade to Stretch? Please tell me where the option to change window border colors went. |
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| 03:21.31 | kohntact | /msg dpkg guidelines |
| 03:22.19 | kohntact | #flood /msg dpkg guidelines |
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| 03:35.44 | mister-homelab | Hey, I'm installing debian jessie onto a dell r710 for the first time. I'm looking for some help. I just finished the install sequence without too much difficulty, but I keep getting an error when I try to boot. |
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| 03:36.17 | mister-homelab | "Error: attempt to read or write outside of disk 'hd0'." It then runs grub rescue mode. |
| 03:37.20 | mister-homelab | So far I've gotten set root=(hd0,gpt2) to work, but that's about it. |
| 03:39.38 | Papillon | it has uefi? |
| 03:39.56 | Papillon | rather you're booting via uefi? |
| 03:40.35 | mister-homelab | I'm not sure. I can check. |
| 03:40.37 | mister-homelab | Sec. |
| 03:41.33 | mister-homelab | Sorry for the wait, dell server boot times are pretty awful |
| 03:41.47 | LiuYan | mister-homelab: the Dell R710 we bought does not seems have ueif support |
| 03:42.40 | Papillon | http://askubuntu.com/questions/397485/what-to-do-when-i-get-an-attempt-to-read-or-write-outside-of-disk-hd0-error |
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| 03:43.18 | mister-homelab | Papillon: I tried that |
| 03:43.33 | mister-homelab | The partition is hd0,gpt2 |
| 03:43.45 | mister-homelab | I get the same error when trying insmod normal |
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| 03:44.28 | mister-homelab | and Papillon, I am in bios now, UEFI is possible |
| 03:45.10 | mister-homelab | I'm going to try that |
| 03:45.12 | Papillon | did you manually partition your drive? Bios boot on a gpt partition on grub requires a small bios reserved partition |
| 03:45.42 | mister-homelab | No, I went via the graphical installer and went with the recommended options. |
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| 03:48.16 | Papillon | there's a stack exchange post that suggests grub-mkdevicemap grub-install /dev/sda update-grub |
| 03:48.39 | mister-homelab | Can you link it? |
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| 03:55.19 | dgriffi | did anyone check over MATE to make sure it didn't introduce any jarring changes? |
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| 03:57.02 | dgriffi | problem 1) can't change colors of active/passive highlights 2) windows pressed against the top of the desktop get maximized. no way to turn that off. 3) there's room to automatically place a window, but window manager ignores that space and drops it right in the middle of the screen. |
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| 04:02.52 | Papillon | http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/285462/grub-error-attempt-to-read-or-write-outside-of-disk-hd0 |
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| 04:26.26 | meh | hello |
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| 05:15.56 | ferdianza | a |
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| 05:20.25 | ferdianza | hello |
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| 06:24.53 | j4ckcom | debian canât have sound? |
| 06:24.57 | j4ckcom | :( |
| 06:25.08 | j4ckcom | i canât hear any sound :( |
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| 06:27.15 | remo | why in stretch vim compilled without python ? -python +python3 |
| 06:27.44 | j4ckcom | help me Debian member, how can i hear sound? |
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| 06:33.02 | Epakai | remo: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=729924 or you can read /usr/share/doc/vim-common/NEWS.Debian.gz (second entry) for the short explanation |
| 06:33.03 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/729924 in vim (closed): «vim: Add Python 3 support»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2013-11-18; last modified: 2017-01-27. |
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| 06:37.28 | remo | Epakai, yep, python3 support, but why add python3 support and -python ? |
| 06:38.10 | remo | Epakai, E319: Sorry, the command is not available in this version: python << EOF |
| 06:38.19 | Epakai | it's in the bug |
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| 06:39.19 | remo | Epakai, where can I find "this bug" ? |
| 06:39.28 | remo | Epakai, in link another bug |
| 06:40.16 | Epakai | i linked it. then judd linked it again #729924 |
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| 07:21.06 | Dungeon | hey guys i did something stupid :p |
| 07:21.12 | Dungeon | lol |
| 07:22.45 | Dungeon | if you chmod 755 /home/user but forget the /public_html |
| 07:22.46 | Dungeon | lol |
| 07:23.02 | Dungeon | what do you chmod the user dir back to by default? |
| 07:25.26 | deego | Dungeon: chmod -R go-rwX ~ |
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| 07:26.04 | deego | or, for good measure, chmod -R go-rwx ~ |
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| 07:26.36 | deego | then, go back to public_html and handle that |
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| 07:50.26 | Dungeon | well i ended up removing the user |
| 07:50.36 | Dungeon | removing the directory |
| 07:50.53 | Dungeon | then readding the user then readding the public_html dir |
| 07:50.55 | Dungeon | lol |
| 07:51.15 | Dungeon | chgrp www-data /home/<username>/public_html |
| 07:52.38 | deego | :) |
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| 08:24.15 | Dungeon | chgrp www-data /home/fineuo/public_html |
| 08:24.44 | Dungeon | should change the boxs page to accessing that instead of the default one apache shows?" |
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| 08:32.22 | Dungeon | btw i was looking at lamp setup from https://wiki.debian.org/LaMp |
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| 08:32.48 | Dungeon | i can see ip/~fineuo |
| 08:33.49 | Dungeon | but ip doesnt show that dir and i have set chgrp www-data /home/fineuo/public_html |
| 08:34.10 | Dungeon | so default page for ip should be the same as ip/~fineuo ya? |
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| 08:42.01 | Voldenet | Quick question - why is startcom still not distrusted? |
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| 08:43.50 | Voldenet | I heard that in some distros it already is |
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| 08:54.56 | Dungeon | anyone know? |
| 08:55.20 | Dungeon | and i thought phpmyadmin was a server config util not just a database tool? |
| 08:55.27 | Dungeon | i know webmin can be used |
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| 09:00.07 | rgr | which dropbox should we be running on our debian gnome3 setups? I seem to have 2 different DB processes ( no, not two threads of the same process). the dropbox-dist one and a plain dropbox. |
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| 09:15.22 | Meerkat | Is it possible to install all packages? Has anyone tried this? |
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| 09:15.57 | klaas | I got a question about bonding, I have an lacp bonding interface - the incoming traffic gets devided like I'd expect (more or less 50%/50%) but the outgoing traffic is like 99%/1% on one device -- did I mess up my configuration? |
| 09:16.15 | themill | Meerkat: no it is not |
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| 09:17.45 | Meerkat | that's unfortunate. It would be one heck of a youtube video |
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| 09:19.34 | themill | Only in the sense of https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/03/msg02502.html |
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| 09:24.33 | SwedeMike | klaas: it's always the outgoing device that is making the decision how to do the load sharing between bonded interface. What device is it that isn't load sharing equally? |
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| 09:25.56 | klaas | I have eth0/1 in bond0 with lacp - all outgoing traffic is going through eth1 instead of being shared between both interfaces |
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| 09:26.20 | klaas | so I'm wondering why that is the case and why incoming traffic works fine :) |
| 09:26.38 | klaas | but I guess incoming traffic is done by the upstream router :D |
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| 09:31.08 | SwedeMike | klaas: yes, what component in a LAG to use it done by egress device, so if it works well on a router and not well on your debian machine, then debian and that router have different algorithms for how to load share traffic. |
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| 09:32.58 | SwedeMike | klaas: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/bonding.txt what mode is your in? seems default is MAC based, which would explain what you're seeing. |
| 09:33.12 | SwedeMike | klaas: look into xmit_hash_policy |
| 09:33.34 | klaas | SwedeMike okay, thanks -- will do |
| 09:33.38 | SwedeMike | klaas: you need to set this to something L3 or L4 related |
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| 09:34.49 | SwedeMike | klaas: "layer3+4" seems to be the one you should choose. |
| 09:35.57 | Dungeon | when i try to install webmin im getting an error on debian 8 |
| 09:36.25 | klaas | yeah, SwedeMike seems like -- thank you for the quick help |
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| 09:38.41 | Dungeon | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:38.44 | Dungeon | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:38.57 | teraflops | Dungeon: consider it a signal. you dont want to install such crap |
| 09:39.06 | Dungeon | however i cant get that to install with apt |
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| 09:39.11 | Dungeon | lol |
| 09:39.20 | teraflops | !webmin |
| 09:39.20 | dpkg | Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at http://webmin.com/ Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see http://bugs.debian.org/343897 . The Debian package from webmin.com is of poor quality. See <free whcp> for alternatives. |
| 09:39.52 | Dungeon | best backdoor server config util isnt it? |
| 09:40.19 | Dungeon | got phpmyadmin but that doesnt do jack for system config that i see |
| 09:40.34 | teraflops | you better dont use it. but not exposing it to intetnet is a god idea |
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| 09:42.15 | Dungeon | oh loggin into that over firefox as phpmyadmin with the password is a nono? |
| 09:44.34 | teraflops | Dungeon: im not the right person to ask about such things. I hate them all. so im definitely biased |
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| 10:11.56 | kirillow | can i just install kernel 4.10 on debian stretch? |
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| 10:40.19 | DustyDingo | hi,... i struggle with configuring suspend/hibernate with systemd,... pretty undocumented imho |
| 10:40.42 | DustyDingo | i have no swap partition and therefore want to disable hibernate |
| 10:41.03 | DustyDingo | but do suspend instead,... |
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| 10:41.35 | DustyDingo | however,... works perfectly when i am on battery but if the AC is connected systemd does hibernate and crashes the system |
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| 11:32.52 | abff | I just did an upgrade and was spat 77 warnings |
| 11:32.55 | abff | http://pastebin.com/7bQuVGZC |
| 11:33.25 | abff | Is nouveau going to implode when I reboot? |
| 11:36.02 | abff | nvm #nouveau says I'm covered, they are firmwares for a card I don't sue |
| 11:36.03 | abff | use* |
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| 11:38.05 | shtrb | Is there a gui/command line tool for odin (cloud service software) in debian ? |
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| 11:47.13 | abff | Was looking over their web pages, seems like they're deep in redhat's pocket |
| 11:47.53 | shtrb | abff , was for me ? |
| 11:47.57 | shtrb | *was it for me |
| 11:48.15 | abff | Yeah, sorry didn't highlight |
| 11:48.23 | shtrb | I'm ok with a gui or command line - as long it will have an interface in English :-( |
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| 11:48.36 | abff | http://www.odin.com/products/obas/download/ |
| 11:48.51 | abff | They seem to only support redhat and centOS |
| 11:49.47 | shtrb | ok , how did you get to the download link ? |
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| 11:50.15 | shtrb | ahh , found it |
| 11:50.44 | shtrb | but I'm searching for an end user solution (that link seem to provide the server side) |
| 11:51.19 | shtrb | abff ,thanks |
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| 11:51.57 | abff | Ah their so called "management node", you'd have to ask them |
| 11:52.28 | DK2 | is it possible to access data with a md raid 0 and one broken drive out of two? |
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| 11:52.35 | DK2 | in a Live linux |
| 11:52.42 | DK2 | or is it completely gone? |
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| 11:52.59 | p0g0 | DK2: iirc, that is a mirror, and you should have a working copy |
| 11:53.15 | shtrb | DK2 , you should be safe |
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| 11:53.34 | p0g0 | DK2: I haven't done this in a long time, but you just need to break the md pair |
| 11:53.39 | DK2 | but it is configured as raid0 |
| 11:53.52 | DK2 | cant test it before monday yet, so... |
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| 11:54.09 | p0g0 | or, again, from memory, you can just remirror, and restore it to a two drive image. |
| 11:54.20 | shtrb | oh sorry , you are #%#% |
| 11:54.27 | p0g0 | me? |
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| 11:54.32 | shtrb | no , DK2 |
| 11:54.39 | shtrb | if one disk dead on raid0 |
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| 11:54.55 | shtrb | I meant you are in problamtic state |
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| 11:55.25 | DK2 | haha yes i guess so |
| 11:55.35 | DK2 | but is there any chance to recover data from the intact drive? |
| 11:55.39 | DK2 | i guess not |
| 11:55.46 | shtrb | depending on your setup |
| 11:56.04 | shtrb | I was able to extract data when part of the partion had been broken by bad DD |
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| 11:56.54 | shtrb | sometimes the "failure" can be fixed |
| 11:57.20 | shtrb | the IT guys did some wonders , and a device that wasn't even recognised went back to work after their magic |
| 11:57.28 | p0g0 | OK, it is not a mirror, I am wrong... |
| 11:57.40 | DK2 | well atleast half of the data shouldbe still there |
| 11:59.01 | shtrb | DK2 , if you can backup the "working" and non "working" devices for now |
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| 12:00.58 | shtrb | DK2 , the "half" data is block level |
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| 12:13.55 | yolan | hello, any idea when Stretch will be released? |
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| 12:14.25 | towo` | when it's done |
| 12:14.26 | shtrb | it wasn't ? |
| 12:14.28 | towo` | as allways |
| 12:14.50 | yolan | yep, but any idea WHEN? |
| 12:14.52 | shtrb | towo`,isn't freeze mean it's done ? |
| 12:14.58 | yolan | between x date, and y date? |
| 12:15.11 | towo` | shyou see a release? |
| 12:15.26 | towo` | shtrb, |
| 12:15.40 | shtrb | towo`, yes |
| 12:15.46 | towo` | shtrb, and btw, freeze does not mean it's done |
| 12:15.52 | shtrb | ok |
| 12:16.06 | yolan | so it's in freeze? cool |
| 12:16.17 | towo` | it's done if the rc bug count goes to zero |
| 12:16.18 | yolan | mean it'll be out soon, in a few weeks maybe :) |
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| 12:17.05 | themill | s/weeks/months/ |
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| 12:18.25 | yolan | towo`, what do "rc" in rc bugs count mean? |
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| 12:18.36 | towo` | release critical |
| 12:18.59 | themill | !rc bugs |
| 12:18.59 | dpkg | Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ or the lists at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/all.html http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=stretch&patch=ign&pending=ign&merged=ign&done=ign&rc=1 . See also <rc-alert>. |
| 12:19.35 | shtrb | how can't it be shipped with 818172 and friends is beyong me |
| 12:19.54 | yolan | Total number of release-critical bugs: 1630 |
| 12:19.58 | yolan | well shit. |
| 12:20.13 | shtrb | unless having no two plasma session is normal thing |
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| 12:24.17 | abff | yolan I think thats every bug ever recorded, not how many need to be fixed for stretch. I think taht number is 122 |
| 12:24.49 | towo` | Number concerning the next release: 241 |
| 12:24.51 | shtrb | There is/was a bug that would cause plasma to hang after a while (workaround is to switch to a different tty) and another one that prevented two plasma sessions. |
| 12:24.57 | towo` | that is the important number |
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| 12:26.26 | abff | shtrb what's plasma? |
| 12:26.40 | abff | KDE workspaces? |
| 12:26.53 | shtrb | one of the subsystems used by the plasma-desktop etc |
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| 12:27.42 | abff | gotcha |
| 12:27.50 | shtrb | so if you are using KF5/plasma/sddm you going to have a bad time |
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| 12:29.41 | shtrb | abff , but if you use something else or don't care about freezing it's ok |
| 12:30.14 | abff | I use xfce, but I was interested in KDE |
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| 12:58.10 | TwistedFate | what is the average cycle of packages dropping in from experimental > unstable > testing? |
| 12:59.21 | themill | packages don't move between experimental and unstable at all. At the moment, packages don't move from unstable to testing without explicit permission |
| 12:59.24 | themill | !freeze |
| 12:59.24 | dpkg | The 'freeze' is when large changes to testing version of Debian are stopped for few months. During this period, no new package uploads are made except to fix critical bugs or to provide documentation updates. During the freeze, bugs are squashed to 'stabilize' the release to make the new 'stable'. Stretch started to freeze in Nov 2016 and entered full freeze on 5 Feb 2017. Also ask me about <slushy>, <stretch freeze>. |
| 13:00.41 | hmz365 | BIOS does not ban hard drive option, how do I get banned in linuxo system hard drive? |
| 13:00.43 | TwistedFate | themill, so when can i hope to see mesa 17 in testing? :S |
| 13:01.11 | themill | after stretch releases |
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| 13:06.03 | TwistedFate | thanks |
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| 13:51.34 | BluesKaj | Hiyas all |
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| 13:54.41 | xaa | hi, dpkg --list print a detailled table list of packages installed. Is it possible to display the Candidate version in a new col as well ? |
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| 14:02.15 | TomTomTo1 | xaa: dpkg doesn't know about the candidate. apt is the tool for working with repositories. I wouldn't know a way except for parsing the apt-cache policy output for every package in the list. |
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| 14:09.52 | xaa | ok. thank you TomTomTo1 |
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| 14:33.21 | adan | whois gmh |
| 14:33.35 | gmh | :P |
| 14:33.36 | ychaouche | Hello #debian |
| 14:33.45 | mzs114 | hello ychaouche |
| 14:33.57 | ychaouche | Please I would like to disable IPv6 protocol but I can't find /etc/modprobe.d/aliases file ? |
| 14:34.17 | adan | sorry i am a new guy ,,,i just trying to use irssi |
| 14:34.21 | ychaouche | should I create it ? |
| 14:34.27 | adan | @gmh |
| 14:34.36 | Dagger | ychaouche: you can create files yourself, but a) v6 isn't a module in current debian, b) don't disable v6 |
| 14:34.36 | gmh | ychaouche: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIPv6 |
| 14:34.43 | Dagger | if you have some problem with v6, then fix the problem |
| 14:35.02 | ychaouche | Dagger: we don't have any network device that supports v6 in our infrastructure |
| 14:35.11 | mzs114 | adan: remember all irc commands start with a / |
| 14:35.22 | Dagger | we're in 2017, we're way past the point where disabling it is the right workaround for problems |
| 14:35.41 | adan | mzs114: thx |
| 14:35.51 | ychaouche | Dagger: the link you gave me doesn't load |
| 14:36.32 | mzs114 | ychaouche: I tried, it opens.. |
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| 14:37.15 | TimurTheLame | ychaouche, I personally do the method #2 http://www.binarytides.com/disable-ipv6-ubuntu/ |
| 14:37.40 | TimurTheLame | Oh wait, it's the same thing as the debian wiki |
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| 14:37.48 | Dagger | even if you have no v6, you still shouldn't be disabling it. you should be /deploying/ it (and disabling it is going to make it harder to deploy) |
| 14:38.18 | ychaouche | Dagger: I didn't succeed in convincing the network team... :( |
| 14:38.40 | Penix | ychaouche: your network team should be sacked |
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| 14:38.51 | missmbob | there's no need to disable it. just dont configure it. it's not like having support for it hurts you |
| 14:38.55 | Penix | ychaouche: if you're not using v6, disabling it will not make a difference |
| 14:39.12 | dvs | ychaouche, there will come a point where they cannot reach new web sites. |
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| 14:39.20 | ychaouche | Penix: it will because debian is trying IPv6 addresses and it can't reach them. |
| 14:39.38 | ychaouche | Penix: for eg. when installaing packets with apt-get |
| 14:39.50 | Penix | ychaouche: no |
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| 14:40.09 | ychaouche | Penix: that's what just happened to me |
| 14:40.20 | Dagger | how do you know apt-get's trying v6? because it prints some very misleading error messages |
| 14:40.21 | Penix | ychaouche: you're doing something wrong then |
| 14:40.38 | ychaouche | Penix: can you help in identifying what that would be ? |
| 14:40.41 | ychaouche | prepares a paste |
| 14:41.05 | ychaouche | Penix: see : https://gist.githubusercontent.com/ychaouche/0c3a000e0da221c9c185cd65e1396d95/raw/0347aded4bdc4cf106d59841ec8bd8be37c673e1/gistfile1.txt |
| 14:41.18 | ychaouche | Dagger: see paste |
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| 14:41.26 | Dagger | yeah, that's the misleading error message |
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| 14:41.33 | Dagger | what does `wget http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/m/mysql-5.5/mysql-common_5.5.54-0+deb8u1_all.deb` give? |
| 14:41.58 | ychaouche | Dagger: the second time the same command worked, but with ipv4, and I didn't change anything |
| 14:42.09 | ychaouche | it seems it's using ipv4 and ipv6 interchangibly |
| 14:42.11 | Dagger | then your v4 was temporarily broken |
| 14:42.18 | Penix | ychaouche: what kind of addresses are assigned to your interfaces? |
| 14:42.42 | TimurTheLame | ychaouche, maaaan, just disable ipv6 :P |
| 14:42.47 | Dagger | if you have no v6 address, then apt-get (and all other programs) will try v4 first, and if it fails then they'll try v6 |
| 14:43.03 | Dagger | apt-get only prints the last failure |
| 14:43.07 | ychaouche | https://gist.githubusercontent.com/ychaouche/aaf6c1a4d0678e523316241ec825ec72/raw/d40f3c230a58573ffe51cd02def08658ecffa298/gistfile1.txt |
| 14:43.14 | ychaouche | Dagger: wget ^ |
| 14:43.34 | ychaouche | Penix: 10.10.10.19 on one interface, the other is loopback, that's it. |
| 14:44.16 | ychaouche | could it be the DNS that's giving me Ipv6 addresses ? |
| 14:44.20 | TimurTheLame | ychaouche, you're not going to save the world by having ipv6 enabled on your machines when most people don't use it |
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| 14:44.56 | Dagger | ...wait, no v4 addresses at all? |
| 14:45.07 | Dagger | ychaouche: what does `getent ahosts security.debian.org` give? in particular, does it always give the same output? |
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| 14:46.06 | ychaouche | https://gist.githubusercontent.com/ychaouche/1f2aaaf1e9df2563731bb6e4f83f61a1/raw/4becd8eb6658b654c703cccee3217a42990a2029/gistfile1.txt |
| 14:46.23 | Dagger | TimurTheLame: that's exactly how you're going to save it. how are the first 50% of people going to enable v6 if they can't do it before the other 50%? |
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| 14:46.40 | Dagger | TimurTheLame: also the US has 30% of people using v6, which is still dire but is hardly ignorable |
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| 14:46.57 | TimurTheLame | Dagger, you're not practicable, bro |
| 14:47.21 | TimurTheLame | But meh |
| 14:47.22 | Dagger | ychaouche: okay, so v4 *is* being tried first. it's possible your DNS is unreliable and failing to return A records sometimes |
| 14:47.38 | mzs114 | hey Dagger, its good what you mention, but sometimes in the IT depts, esp of "enterprise" ones are hard to work with |
| 14:47.48 | mzs114 | so we have to skip such things sometimes |
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| 14:48.13 | mzs114 | but its good that you push for v6 proliferation.. |
| 14:49.16 | Penix | it's not really a matter of promoting v6 use. it's a matter of gracefully falling back to v4, as one would expect |
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| 14:53.46 | BluesKaj | I thought it IPv6 is just a matter of time til it's mandatory, once the IPv4 model runs out of manageable IP addresses |
| 14:54.08 | dvs | BluesKaj, exactly |
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| 14:54.31 | BluesKaj | . |
| 14:54.50 | BluesKaj | so promotion isn't necessary |
| 14:55.13 | sonOfRa | I dunno, I frequently disable my ipv6 (in fact I just did half an hour ago) because my ISP keeps giving me prefixes that *don't work* |
| 14:55.44 | sonOfRa | So I get a valid IPv6 address, I can connect to other hosts within my home network over IPv6, but not to hosts outside of my network. |
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| 14:56.08 | BluesKaj | sonOfRa, obviously your ISP doesn't support IPv6 |
| 14:56.32 | dvs | change the router to do a ipv6 to 4 mapping |
| 14:56.56 | Dagger | sonOfRa: it'd be better to fix the broken shit |
| 14:56.59 | sonOfRa | BluesKaj: they do support IPv6. The next time I get a prefix, I'll get a working one |
| 14:57.04 | jhutchins | sonOfRa: I have IPV6 on google fiber. Ping latency is about 10x what IPV4 is. |
| 14:57.14 | sonOfRa | Dagger: it's not on my end. I can't fix it. |
| 14:57.22 | Dagger | but if it's really on the ISP end, and the ISP really do refuse to fix it, then sure. not much you can do other than disable it on your end |
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| 14:57.44 | Dagger | you could switch to a less shit ISP though |
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| 14:58.20 | Digz | I have AT&T Gigapower.... and AT&T's implementation of IPv6 is so horrendous I disabled it. |
| 14:58.37 | BluesKaj | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:58.42 | sonOfRa | Only two ISPs available where I live, the other one is even worse (instead of non-working IPv6, you get empty bandwidth promises, because they don't peer with anyone) |
| 14:58.52 | chomwitt | i load changes to my iptables with /etc/init.d/networking reload . is this the recommended way ? |
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| 14:59.00 | Digz | I just ordered static IP's though and that is done through cascaded routing so I can stop using their DMZPlus setup.... |
| 14:59.17 | jhutchins | chomwitt: Does it work for you? |
| 14:59.22 | sonOfRa | "Oh yes you have 200MBit VDSL via vectoring, but if you want to watch a 5MBit video stream from twitch or youtube in the evening, well, that's tough luck" |
| 14:59.55 | sonOfRa | I actually switched away from them because they cancelled peering to my server hoster, and I was unable to complete my daily incremental backups |
| 15:00.08 | sonOfRa | Because one increment was larger than the daily throughput to that server hoster. |
| 15:00.29 | mzs114 | y'all lucky to have IPv6 ISPs, here in India we are yet to find one which supplies this to residential areas.. |
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| 15:02.12 | jhutchins | mzs114: There are a lot of aspects of ipv6 that just don't work yet. Many things have yet to be implemented. |
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| 15:02.29 | Dagger | almost one fifth of India has v6, so there should be somebody doing v6 over there |
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| 15:02.38 | Dagger | although it might be a mobile provider or somesuch |
| 15:02.44 | jhutchins | mzs114: iirc NameVhost among them. |
| 15:03.07 | chomwitt | jhutchins: yep! |
| 15:03.21 | mzs114 | Dagger: yeah that is why I mentioned residential areas |
| 15:04.04 | chomwitt | but with all that fuzz about systemd i wonder if my method will or is depracated.. |
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| 15:04.48 | mzs114 | jhutchins: I have not come across NameVhost |
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| 15:04.59 | mzs114 | is that an ISP? |
| 15:06.36 | missmbob | chomwitt: there's the package iptables-persistent or you can use iptables-reload |
| 15:06.43 | jhutchins | mzs114: That is the Apache function that allows multiple host names on the same IP and same Apache instance. |
| 15:06.51 | chomwitt | missmbob: thanks! |
| 15:07.13 | jhutchins | chomwitt: If the script works for you, that's as good as anything. |
| 15:07.35 | mzs114 | jhutchins: ah I see.. I confused this with "bluehost" |
| 15:08.05 | mzs114 | I wonder what would be the status with Lighttpd(my fav), or Nginx |
| 15:08.10 | Dagger | ...yeah, I'm fairly sure apache works just fine with v6 |
| 15:08.33 | Dagger | I'm not literally using the word "namevhost" in my config but I'm hosting multiple sites on a single v6 address and it works |
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| 15:09.07 | chomwitt | jhutchins: /etc/init.d/networking reload seem more general ,( i mean a lot of things may happen i guess) but if iptables-reload works seems more 'targeted' |
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| 15:15.12 | jhutchins | chomwitt: I've used a couple of options: for my main use I had a script that was called by rc.local; I also used shorewall for a while because of the ease of adding blocked addresses (it was serious overkill). |
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| 15:16.01 | jhutchins | chomwitt: If you're setting it up under the networking init script, you probably already have a save-restore mechanism installed, and you could call that directly. |
| 15:16.18 | jhutchins | chomwitt: You might see where the networking startup is getting/storing the rules. |
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| 15:20.02 | chomwitt | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:20.31 | chomwitt | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:21.25 | chomwitt | jhutchins: i'm tottally noob to iptables :-) |
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| 15:22.07 | chomwitt | s/noob/newbie :-) |
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| 15:27.17 | abff | my laptop has two video cards, an nvidia and an integrated intel chip. I know that currently on my system X11 only loads the intel driver. If I config xorg to load nouveau, should I also remove instructions to load the intel driver |
| 15:27.22 | abff | ?** |
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| 15:31.11 | jhutchins | chomwitt: Didn't you say you were making changes to them? Where? |
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| 15:33.38 | missmbob | chomwitt: it's not a package |
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| 15:35.50 | mender27 | I have severe problems with a fresh install of Debian Testing/Stretch. I'm trying to install/build the ZFS module, but it hangs really long and then fails on the configure stage. |
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| 15:36.30 | mender27 | Did the same thing just yesterday and did not have such issues :/. |
| 15:36.50 | BluesKaj | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:36.59 | BluesKaj | ZFS rather |
| 15:37.21 | mender27 | BluesKaj, yes, I was planning to move some directories there, since it's a lot easier to set up and use then mdadm + lvm |
| 15:39.47 | mender27 | BluesKaj,somehow it worked after a long while, but I'm still sort of suspicious |
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| 15:40.24 | BluesKaj | mender27, perhaps you get a quicker response in the #zfs chat |
| 15:40.50 | chomwitt | jhutchins: i simply add rules with the iptables command and i saved them to /etc/iptables-up.rules |
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| 15:42.15 | mender27 | BluesKaj, I feel my problem "magically" solved itself. In case something still wrong, I'll try there. Thanks! |
| 15:42.51 | hiya | ya> So that you know how to do it? |
| 15:42.51 | hiya | <coinkeeper> ive just done that |
| 15:42.51 | hiya | <hiya> ok ok |
| 15:42.51 | hiya | <coinkeeper> adding chans now |
| 15:42.51 | hiya | <coinkeeper> right - im getting somewhere, all I need to know now is how do I attach my client to the bnc? |
| 15:42.51 | *** kick/#debian [hiya!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood. Please use http://paste.debian.net instead.) |
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| 15:43.03 | BluesKaj | mender27, ok, good luck |
| 15:43.39 | chomwitt | missmbob: i found iptables-apply . is that the one u mean? |
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| 15:44.37 | missmbob | chomwitt: /sbin/iptables-restore (root) is in the iptables package which i assume you have installed. you can read about it in the iptables section on debian's wiki |
| 15:44.42 | mender27 | BluesKaj, somewhat miss the integration I had in FreeBSD, but oh well :P. Is it true that ZFS is coming as an option to Stable/Stretch later this year? |
| 15:45.13 | hiya | Error unlocking /dev/sdc: Command-line `cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdc luks-c624f927-03a9-4fa0-bcfe-1c0f0cdade4a ' exited with non-zero exit status 5: Device luks-c624f927-03a9-4fa0-bcfe-1c0f0cdade4a already exists. |
| 15:45.24 | hiya | I am getting this error when unlocking a disk with FDE |
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| 15:46.31 | mender27 | BluesKaj, everything is okay now. Thanks again for help! |
| 15:46.48 | BluesKaj | mender27, I don't know, I thought ZFS was for outboard storage disks |
| 15:47.22 | mender27 | BluesKaj, you can mount regular system partitions on it, because the zfs kernel module handles mounting also :). |
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| 15:48.18 | BluesKaj | mender27, did you install OS to it , I thought it was difficult to do? |
| 15:49.05 | mender27 | BluesKaj, it's integrated in FreeBSD and Solaris, but for Linux distros some tricks are needed, true. I'm only moving stuff from /var and /usr to it to save my system SSD a bit. |
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| 15:49.38 | BluesKaj | mender27, ok understood' |
| 15:50.30 | BluesKaj | mender27, is your ssd recent vintage? |
| 15:51.02 | mender27 | BluesKaj, not really, it came with the workstation some 5 years ago. |
| 15:51.38 | mender27 | BluesKaj, but it might be older, since it was a refurbished HP Compaq Z200 workstation. |
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| 15:53.11 | BluesKaj | mender27, good to know that ssds last that long. I instaklled a samaung evo 250GB last yr ...heard some \worriesome stories about trim problems with it. |
| 15:53.42 | mender27 | BluesKaj, maybe it's hardware specific? This is an Intel ssd. |
| 15:54.14 | mender27 | BluesKaj, I used UFS2 with TRIM or ext4 on it so hard to compare I guess. |
| 15:54.25 | BluesKaj | yes, I believe it is |
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| 15:56.20 | mender27 | Hmmm....are .debs cached in /var/cache or someplace else? |
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| 15:56.36 | mender27 | ah, my bad, found it |
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| 15:58.37 | BluesKaj | nothing bad about finding it :-) |
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| 15:59.05 | mender27 | It's just so basic I should've known, that's all :). |
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| 16:00.30 | mender27 | Alright, will be back somewhat later. See you! |
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| 16:05.23 | superKiller | Hello, i have a usb wireless adapter that works fine on ubuntu 16.04 but does not get detected on debian. I assumed it would work since ubuntu is based on debian |
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| 16:07.07 | Rhuarc | 3 |
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| 16:07.37 | superKiller | any ideas ? |
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| 16:09.04 | GNU\colossus | superKiller, chances are it needs either a more recent Kernel image to be supported, or (non-free) firmware installed that Debian doesn't have in its default installation |
| 16:09.37 | GNU\colossus | which versions of Ubuntu and Debian have you tried the stick with? |
| 16:09.38 | missmbob | !firmware iso |
| 16:09.39 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 8 "Jessie" are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install guide>. |
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| 16:12.07 | superKiller | GNU\colossus: thank you for responding. I use ubuntu 16.04 LTS, the wifi adapter is a pretty cheap and basic one. here --> https://www.amazon.com/Comfast-Wireless-Network-Internal-Computer/dp/B01JLG919E/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1489939808&sr=8-11&keywords=comfast+wifi+usb+adapter; I want to use it with this version of debian --> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/bt-hybrid/ |
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| 16:12.51 | GNU\colossus | superKiller, the Ubuntu release you use comes with linux 4.4, while Debian 8 installs linux 3.16 by default |
| 16:13.17 | GNU\colossus | it's possible that this difference is enough to explain why it doesn't work on Debian |
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| 16:13.43 | missmbob | it's probably both. firmware and kernel. get them both from jessie-backports |
| 16:13.45 | GNU\colossus | do you have Debian booted up on a machine where you can plug it in? |
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| 16:15.09 | superKiller | GNU\colossus: No, not right now. |
| 16:16.13 | superKiller | I actually should have asked when I was near a machine with debian. But, what do you suggest, I obtain the debian version from where ? One that would support it. I'm pretty new to linux |
| 16:16.27 | GNU\colossus | !backports |
| 16:16.27 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 16:16.39 | GNU\colossus | !debian-backports |
| 16:16.40 | dpkg | backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <jessie backports>) and oldstable (<wheezy backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>. |
| 16:16.54 | GNU\colossus | superKiller, from there ^, you can install Linux 4.9 for Jessie |
| 16:17.41 | superKiller | GNU\colossus: a problem is that I can't connect to the internet from my debian machine due to lack of other network adapters, my laptop's onboard wifi isnt supported either. So I cant download off the net on debian |
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| 16:17.43 | GNU\colossus | you can then boot that kernel, and observe the debug ringbuffer what it has to say when you plug the wifi dongle in by running `sudo dmesg` |
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| 16:18.13 | GNU\colossus | ah. I see. well, you can download the backports kernel image and all its deps and install it by hand |
| 16:18.16 | GNU\colossus | BUT |
| 16:18.27 | GNU\colossus | since this is going to be a laptop installation |
| 16:18.33 | cerealkill3r | Hey guys, what would be a good way to copy data from a corrupted filesystem on another machine? Would a live usb work? |
| 16:18.35 | GNU\colossus | you might just wanna try installing the stretch release |
| 16:18.45 | GNU\colossus | (even though it's formally still testing) |
| 16:19.10 | GNU\colossus | superKiller, what built-in wifi does your laptop have? |
| 16:19.57 | missmbob | superKiller: this is the stretch iso with firmware included. should work. http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/stretch_di_rc2/amd64/ |
| 16:20.13 | GNU\colossus | yup, that's your best shot |
| 16:20.50 | jhutchins | cerealkill3r: clonezilla |
| 16:20.57 | GNU\colossus | cerealkill3r, you can try grml in forensic mode |
| 16:21.07 | GNU\colossus | that will make sure not to touch any filesystems by itself |
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| 16:21.30 | GNU\colossus | make a complete copy of the filesystem's underlying block device using ddrescue, and then work on that snapshot copy |
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| 16:22.05 | superKiller | GNU\colossus: https://www.amazon.com/Dell-i3542-5000BK-Multi-Touch-Generation-Integrated/dp/B00K4PATS4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489940429&sr=8-1&keywords=dell+inspiron+3542+i3; this laptop, the reason i posted the link is that this one is windows 8.1 but mine came with ubuntu 14.04 pre installed. |
| 16:22.35 | superKiller | it did work with my onboard wifi, but 16.04 doesnt. could it be that mine has been deprecated or is no longer supported ? |
| 16:23.14 | GNU\colossus | superKiller, that seems unlikely. |
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| 16:23.27 | GNU\colossus | you should try the stretch installer as suggested above |
| 16:23.57 | missmbob | not any stretch installer. that *exact* one |
| 16:24.50 | missmbob | the regular stretch installer wont support firmware |
| 16:25.01 | missmbob | include* |
| 16:25.28 | superKiller | missmbob: so i would need additional files ? |
| 16:25.48 | missmbob | superKiller: different iso entirely |
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| 16:26.45 | missmbob | superKiller: but yes, with regular you'll need more files/additional work |
| 16:26.51 | superKiller | missmbob: right... so, how can i tell which one? because the most straightforward seem to be these -> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
| 16:27.07 | missmbob | superKiller: the one i already linked you to. scroll up |
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| 16:27.57 | superKiller | missmbob: yes the 331 mb file ? |
| 16:27.59 | BluesKaj | superKiller, what's your wifi chip? |
| 16:28.58 | missmbob | superKiller: yes. http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/stretch_di_rc2/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-stretch-DI-rc2-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 16:30.48 | GNU\colossus | BluesKaj, _probably_ some intel wireless |
| 16:31.03 | jhutchins | GNU\colossus: lspci -nn |
| 16:31.25 | GNU\colossus | jhutchins, it's not my hardware this chat is about :) |
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| 16:32.19 | jhutchins | GNU\colossus: Ah, superKiller's. Still. |
| 16:33.36 | superKiller | BluesKaj: alright. Its broadcom corps bcm43142 |
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| 16:35.15 | BluesKaj | superKiller, aha, i had probs with my BCM 4313 on stretch, network manager gets caught in a loop of connecting and disconnecting asking for the essid pw constantly |
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| 16:36.16 | superKiller | BluesKaj: What would be a solution to this if any ? |
| 16:36.17 | GNU\colossus | ugh, Broadcom! superKiller, do you happen to know if the Dell BIOS/Firmware allows for a change of the miniPCIe-adapter in the laptop? |
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| 16:36.34 | BluesKaj | so installing stretch probly won't solve your problem |
| 16:36.53 | GNU\colossus | if it does, you should get something atheros-based, install that, and be done with wifi troubles forever. |
| 16:37.22 | superKiller | GNU\colossus: I wish I did. Sorry, no i don't know. |
| 16:37.47 | BluesKaj | superKiller, unfortunately I couldn't find a fix so i reinstalled kubuntu 14.04.4 LTS |
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| 16:38.34 | BluesKaj | debian stretch wifi is buggy |
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| 16:38.56 | BluesKaj | on some chips/drivers |
| 16:39.31 | superKiller | BluesKaj: so what GNU\colossus said about a chang of miniPCIe-adapter, how hard would it be for someone like me who doesnt know that ? |
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| 16:40.28 | BluesKaj | superKiller, I have no idea , sorry |
| 16:40.35 | Papillon | If it has an access panel it should be fairly easy, if it doesn't fairly hard (assuming laptop) |
| 16:40.47 | superKiller | Papillon: I do have a laptop |
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| 16:41.21 | superKiller | BluesKaj: ah thats okay. i am bummed though. i was excited to leave windows once and for all ! |
| 16:41.25 | Papillon | the user guide should have instructions on how to do it, look on the bottom for panels held by screws |
| 16:41.38 | Papillon | if it has a flat bottom with no screws you're out of luck |
| 16:42.40 | superKiller | Papillon: In that case I would have to get a new wifi adapter as one of the possible options right ? |
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| 16:43.51 | BluesKaj | superKiller, debian -jessie woked fine with BCM4313 btw |
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| 16:44.24 | superKiller | BluesKaj: mine is bcm 43142 if that makes any difference. |
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| 16:44.46 | BluesKaj | superKiller, you have to do a bit googling to find the right tutorial and suggested driver |
| 16:46.09 | BluesKaj | superKiller, https://wiki.debian.org/brcm80211#supported |
| 16:47.18 | BluesKaj | oops , superKiller wrong page, hang on |
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| 16:48.21 | jhutchins | !bcm43132 |
| 16:48.33 | BluesKaj | superKiller, https://wiki.debian.org/wl |
| 16:48.35 | superKiller | BluesKaj: I was looking at the same page, and my pci id '14e4: 4365' |
| 16:48.53 | jhutchins | ,pciid 14e4:4365 |
| 16:48.54 | judd | [14e4:4365] is 'BCM43142 802.11b/g/n' from 'Broadcom Limited' with no known kernel module in jessie or in sid. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=14e4:4365 |
| 16:49.17 | superKiller | jhutchins: not supported ? :/ |
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| 16:49.46 | jhutchins | superKiller: Not in judd's database rather. |
| 16:50.16 | BluesKaj | superKiller, I repeat https://wiki.debian.org/wl |
| 16:50.40 | superKiller | BluesKaj: yes , and that has led me here : https://packages.debian.org/jessie/broadcom-sta-dkms |
| 16:50.51 | superKiller | bcm 43142 is listed here |
| 16:51.31 | BluesKaj | yes install dkms ,and the tools package |
| 16:52.14 | BluesKaj | gotta go, stuff to do for bit ...BBL |
| 16:52.56 | superKiller | BluesKaj: alright. Thanks ! |
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| 16:53.10 | jhutchins | superKiller: It's supported via dkms, dynamic kernel build system. Built from source. |
| 16:53.31 | jhutchins | superKiller: Follow the instructions BluesKaj linked. |
| 16:53.31 | missmbob | also need kernel headers |
| 16:53.38 | superKiller | jhutchins: Getting the .deb file wouldnt be enough ? |
| 16:54.23 | jhutchins | superKiller: No, read the page through and follow the directions. You are actually going to download the source and build the module from source. dkms does most of the work for you. |
| 16:54.24 | emx | hi. i am considering to set up a nas. there are some ready to use builds but i'm not sure if some have limitations (such as OMV requiring to use the whole disk as partition). any experiences? |
| 16:54.45 | jhutchins | !freenas |
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| 16:54.52 | jhutchins | Really? |
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| 16:54.57 | Papillon | open media vault |
| 16:55.15 | jhutchins | dpkg: cookie |
| 16:55.17 | dpkg | pulls out the cookie jar and finds mpilam... LAM-MPI, http://www.lam-mpi.org, an MPI programming environment and development system for heterogeneous computers on a network. With LAM, a dedicated cluster or an existing network computing infrastructure can act as one parallel computer solving one problem. |
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| 16:56.01 | superKiller | jhutchins: alright . though like i said, i cant do it on the machine as it has debian installed. the guide involves downloading in the target machine. |
| 16:56.21 | missmbob | download all packages to usb then dpkg -i foo.deb |
| 16:56.30 | missmbob | again, including kernel headers |
| 16:56.42 | jhutchins | emx: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallOpenMediaVaultOnDebian |
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| 16:57.02 | jhutchins | superKiller: You can't get a wired connection? |
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| 16:58.02 | superKiller | jhutchins: not with my laptop. but i will do the download to usb and then manual install. |
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| 16:58.37 | missmbob | if it gives you errors building pastebin them before coming back |
| 16:59.00 | abff | don't forget a folder full of your favourite wifi card drivers superKiller ;) |
| 17:00.36 | superKiller | abff: alright |
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| 17:02.20 | namoamitabuddha | I wonder whether in the default settings, does Debian mount /tmp as a tmpfs? |
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| 17:02.32 | Papillon | probably not |
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| 17:03.44 | Papillon | tmpfs is a ramdisk |
| 17:04.01 | missmbob | by default debian doesnt separate /tmp so it's whatever / is (ext4 default) |
| 17:04.41 | Papillon | but a ramdisk wouldn't be a great fit for /tmp |
| 17:04.45 | somiaj | there is a systemd unit file you can enable to make /tmp a tmpfs file system. |
| 17:04.47 | emx | jhutchins, Papillon a pretty simple choice considering that only openmediavault of those two supports arm. thanks. |
| 17:04.51 | somiaj | Papillon: sure, just not by default. |
| 17:05.06 | namoamitabuddha | Yes, I know systemctl enable tmp.mount |
| 17:05.31 | namoamitabuddha | I want to know whether I will encrypt /tmp |
| 17:05.41 | namoamitabuddha | whether it's a good idea |
| 17:05.54 | missmbob | encryption with guided partitioning does |
| 17:05.56 | namoamitabuddha | Now no partition is encrypted. I want to encrypt /home |
| 17:06.09 | somiaj | hmm, seems tmp.mount isn't in stretch, wonder what is the prefered way to do that in stretch. |
| 17:06.16 | Papillon | if you don't want people to read your temp files encrypt it |
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| 17:06.32 | namoamitabuddha | Then I need to create a new partition for /tmp |
| 17:06.46 | namoamitabuddha | Yes, I know this, but I don't know whether it's usually done for personal usage. |
| 17:07.05 | missmbob | yes. guided is "usual" and it does |
| 17:07.23 | namoamitabuddha | I didn't apply guided. |
| 17:07.46 | namoamitabuddha | I'm just learning how to encrypt partitions. |
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| 17:08.34 | Papillon | if your cpu has the whatchamacallit instruction the performance penalty should be greatly reduced |
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| 17:08.38 | Papillon | aes instruction? |
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| 17:08.53 | namoamitabuddha | -c aes-xts-plain64 -s 512 |
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| 17:09.18 | hicks_ | namoamitabuddha: are you wanting to do it all manually? if not just select full disk encryption during install and let it encrypt everything |
| 17:09.42 | namoamitabuddha | Sorry, it's an already installed system. |
| 17:09.52 | hicks_ | for additional partitions that you want to handle manually, use cryptsetup and luks, then you can mount/open them via your regular file manager |
| 17:10.11 | namoamitabuddha | Yes, just reading stuff about dm-crypt |
| 17:10.19 | hicks_ | for an installed system I don't believe there's a way to upgrade on the fly. You'd have to backup all data on the partition, remake it encrypted and restore |
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| 17:10.37 | namoamitabuddha | I don't want to encrypt everything. |
| 17:10.40 | namoamitabuddha | Only the /home |
| 17:10.44 | hicks_ | read about cryptsetup and luks, there's little need to use dm-crypt directly really. |
| 17:11.06 | namoamitabuddha | I'm reading this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system#LUKS_on_LVM |
| 17:11.39 | hicks_ | bear in mind if you only do home, anything in swap/tmp/var/etc will be freely accessable |
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| 17:12.09 | namoamitabuddha | I know that. I wonder whether it's a good idea to do for tmp and swap. |
| 17:12.20 | namoamitabuddha | Seems that it's recommended in the wiki page. |
| 17:12.22 | hicks_ | do you have a reason for not just doing the lot? |
| 17:12.34 | namoamitabuddha | Performance |
| 17:12.44 | hicks_ | does your cpu have encryption support? |
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| 17:14.21 | namoamitabuddha | aes is shown in /proc/cpuinfo |
| 17:14.44 | hicks_ | if it's a modern system, the overhead will be pretty tiny that you likely won't notice |
| 17:16.02 | namoamitabuddha | Thanks. I don't know what's the danger of exposing /var; logs are there |
| 17:16.06 | hicks_ | also when doing just /home you have to consider at which point do you enter your password to unlock the key? You may have to roll your own script to prompt for that at some stage during boot etc |
| 17:16.13 | missmbob | i have an i5 and dont notice with full encryption |
| 17:16.16 | hicks_ | or login as root then unlock it |
| 17:16.30 | namoamitabuddha | unlock while booting |
| 17:16.34 | hicks_ | either way, it's less convenient imo that full disk, which will prompt during pre-auth |
| 17:16.41 | hicks_ | *than |
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| 17:20.00 | namoamitabuddha | For the moment, I think /home is the most important one to encrypt. |
| 17:20.08 | namoamitabuddha | personal data, etc |
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| 17:20.58 | hicks_ | yeah, although I wouldn't get too hung up on performance without trying it first. You'll likley not see any difference between booting off a fully encrypted system to a non. |
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| 17:22.01 | namoamitabuddha | I can imagine, because my smartphone is encrypted without experiencing any performance difference. |
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| 17:22.21 | hicks_ | if you are going to do it manually though, focus on using luks and ensure you have good backups first, mistakes happen :) |
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| 17:22.57 | Papillon | there are different ways of doing storage encryption. For instance you can buy storage drives that encrypt themselves |
| 17:23.12 | namoamitabuddha | what kind of mistakes? |
| 17:23.17 | namoamitabuddha | shred the wrong partition? |
| 17:23.23 | Papillon | that's actually probably what smartphones do because it's more power efficient |
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| 17:23.42 | jhutchins | somiaj: stretch is probably using tmpfs in ram. |
| 17:25.06 | somiaj | jhutchins: and? I guess I don't follow, I just am not seeing how to enable /tmp as tmpfs in stretch, maybe it went back to using /etc/default |
| 17:25.22 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: I think it's a matter of deciding what you want to hide, and from whom. |
| 17:25.39 | somiaj | nope /etc/default/tmpfs still says file ignored when using systemd. |
| 17:25.52 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: We frequently see people here who have either lost their encryption key or have a corrupt encryption system. |
| 17:26.04 | Papillon | why would anyone want a tmpfs /tmp? Why make /tmp a ramdisk? |
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| 17:26.16 | jhutchins | somiaj: So you don't have /tmp at all? |
| 17:26.21 | namoamitabuddha | Corrupt? |
| 17:26.31 | jhutchins | Papillon: clears automatically at boot. |
| 17:26.37 | hicks_ | yeah and even when using full disk encryption there are limits to the protection. It all depends on your scenario |
| 17:26.41 | jhutchins | Papillon: Among other things. |
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| 17:26.56 | Papillon | presumably there are other ways of doing that |
| 17:26.59 | hicks_ | namoamitabuddha: There's occasions the luks header can be damaged by some things |
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| 17:27.18 | hicks_ | I've not seen it myself, but it's worth having a backup of that plus your data just to be safe. |
| 17:27.19 | somiaj | jhutchins: I do, what I'm not seeing is how to nicely make /tmp use tmpfs without adding it to /etc/fstab, in jessie it was enable the tmp.mount unit, in sysvinit it was /etc/default/tmpfs. |
| 17:27.34 | somiaj | jhutchins: not that I use that, just courious as why tmp.mount was moved |
| 17:28.49 | Papillon | Add this to /etc/rc.d/rc.local_shutdown/usr/bin/find /tmp -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -print0 | xargs -0r /bin/rm -rf |
| 17:28.55 | Papillon | although that probably needs sysvinit |
| 17:28.56 | namoamitabuddha | hicks_, The backup is saved during the encryption process? |
| 17:28.59 | jhutchins | Papillon: Apparently speed and the ability to share memory dynamically. |
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| 17:29.54 | Papillon | well tmpfs can use swap space iirc |
| 17:30.05 | jhutchins | Papillon: Right. |
| 17:30.22 | Papillon | but generally you wouldn't want to use tmpfs for /tmp, and there are other was of clearing /tmp at shutdown |
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| 17:30.31 | somiaj | Papillon: if one has / mounted read only, having /tmp as tmpfs over a seperate partition can also be useful. |
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| 17:30.34 | jhutchins | I've had one system run out of space in /tmp. IIRC transcoding video or some such. |
| 17:30.52 | Papillon | or you could just mount /tmp as rw |
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| 17:31.03 | jhutchins | Papillon: Clearing is supposed to alrady be built in, I think at boot rather than shutdown. |
| 17:31.14 | Papillon | that would be strange |
| 17:31.30 | Papillon | but if you're worried about space the last thing you want to do is make it tmpfs |
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| 17:31.57 | hicks_ | namoamitabuddha: see https://debian-administration.org/article/469/How_to_set_up_an_encrypted_filesystem_in_several_easy_steps and https://www.lisenet.com/2013/luks-add-keys-backup-and-restore-volume-header/ |
| 17:32.10 | jhutchins | Papillon: Unless you have plenty of ram. Yes, I think that's why I ran out of space. Years ago. |
| 17:32.29 | Papillon | even if you have plenty of ram |
| 17:33.02 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: I believe the backup is saved when you make the backup. |
| 17:33.27 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: Obviously, you want the unencrypted backup on something that can be secured physically. |
| 17:34.53 | namoamitabuddha | I don't quite understand. Maybe I'm not that scrupulous. But since we cannot do the encryption on the fly, we always create an encrypted partition, and then copy the data to the encrypted partition, and do the mount setups. |
| 17:35.14 | namoamitabuddha | I don't see any further backups are strictly necessary. |
| 17:35.44 | namoamitabuddha | But yes, luks headers are important |
| 17:35.48 | hicks_ | namoamitabuddha: what happens when a util writes data by mistake to the start of that partition and your luks header is now invalid? That header contains your encryption key so you now cannot access your data. |
| 17:36.03 | hicks_ | apparently that has been known to happen and often it hits keyslot 0 |
| 17:36.23 | namoamitabuddha | Yes, but that's a different concept from backup for existing data |
| 17:36.28 | Papillon | I was actually thinking about making a hybrid ramdisk filesystem specifically for /tmp, and maybe /etc but the point would simply be to make disk writes less frequent by storing them in ram. So, for instance, while there was a lot of free ram, it may only write to disk, say, once an hour |
| 17:36.55 | hicks_ | well, for the data itself, anything could happen that prevents you mounting the partition, from a corrption to forgetting your password to hdd failure |
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| 17:38.32 | hicks_ | having good backups is just worth doing even before you add encryption to the mix. |
| 17:38.33 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: Encryption, like LVM, is one more thing that can go wrong. |
| 17:38.46 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: Nobody ever sees the need for further backups until they loose their data. |
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| 17:39.31 | jhutchins | iirc just this week we had a guy who had an encrypted partition, managed by a key that was a different partition - which got deleted. |
| 17:40.01 | jhutchins | (Not LUKS) |
| 17:40.06 | namoamitabuddha | What I wanted to say is that, the origin data is already a kind of "backup" because during the encryption setup, morally the data aren't touched, unless I mistakenly shred it or doing something like this, but this process has nothing to do with encryption. |
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| 17:40.40 | namoamitabuddha | it's a potential danger in any process like partitioning, tec |
| 17:40.42 | namoamitabuddha | etc |
| 17:41.06 | hicks_ | that's part of the, mistakes happen, comment earlier :) |
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| 17:41.42 | hicks_ | if you have a copy that's on another machine or offline, the number of mistakes resulting in total loss go down. |
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| 17:41.59 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: I can't really tell, but it sounds like you may already have an unencrypted copy of the data. If so, good. If you're counting the data-to-be-encrypted, no. |
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| 17:42.14 | hicks_ | If your only copy is on the partition you're copying off of and onto the encrypted partition, there is still a risk of a typo blowing that away |
| 17:42.57 | jhutchins | I saw an international fraternity loose 14 years of email correspondence. |
| 17:43.02 | hicks_ | but yes, in that case the risk is not really any different to normally copying data around |
| 17:43.03 | namoamitabuddha | I know, but encryption here, it's not more dangerous than any other kind of process related to partitions. |
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| 17:43.40 | hicks_ | once you've copied the data over though, you'd want to shred the old unencrypted data, at which point you're back to needing some kind of other backup. |
| 17:43.42 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: I would argue it is, because you're deliberately creating conditions where the data will be inaccessible - that's the point. |
| 17:44.24 | jhutchins | hicks_: Well, I would just store it on a securable device - an external drive in a safe deposit box or whatever variant meets your needs. |
| 17:44.51 | jhutchins | hicks_: Obviously if the data is simply on another partition then yes, but make the backup FIRST, then shred. |
| 17:44.57 | hicks_ | yeah, lots of options, I was more addressing that if you copy from say sdc1 to sdd1 and don't remove the disk after |
| 17:45.09 | hicks_ | there's no point having encryption on sdd1, so that would imply you're going to wipe sdc1 after. |
| 17:45.16 | jhutchins | hicks_: Exactly. |
| 17:45.37 | hicks_ | and then you're back to just one copy of your data which is encrypted and that needs a backup as there's all the normal ways to lose data + a few more with encryption. |
| 17:46.11 | namoamitabuddha | I will wipe them days after, I think, not for the moment. |
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| 17:46.26 | namoamitabuddha | I need to repeatedly test the settings |
| 17:46.42 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: We're just going from what we've seen, here and in our professional life. |
| 17:46.48 | hicks_ | just bear in mind, many a person has encrypted the wrong disk :) |
| 17:46.53 | mender27 | Good evening :). |
| 17:46.55 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: Experience is proportional to data destroyed. |
| 17:47.15 | jhutchins | hicks_: Yeah, the email loss was duplicating the new drive to the source instead of the other way around. |
| 17:47.20 | mzs114 | GE mender27 |
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| 17:47.44 | mender27 | I managed to fix up a nice Debian ZFS pool for the main system. |
| 17:47.50 | namoamitabuddha | Thank you for the suggestions. |
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| 17:49.12 | jhutchins | namoamitabuddha: Good luck. |
| 17:49.36 | BluesKaj | mender27, so what are the advantages of ZFS over other file systems like ext and ntfs for storage? |
| 17:50.01 | mender27 | BluesKaj, you get a reliable volume manager + raid manager |
| 17:50.23 | Papillon | for me the benefit of zfs is data checksumming |
| 17:50.36 | BluesKaj | ahh, raid for multiple disks |
| 17:50.43 | mzs114 | BluesKaj: instant snapshots |
| 17:50.59 | Papillon | but zfs has snapshotting, and it'll let you combine drives and partitions in just about any way and any raid combination you want |
| 17:50.59 | mender27 | BluesKaj, either RAID with 1 drive parity, with 2 drive parity or a mirror and on top of that instant atomic snapshots. |
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| 17:51.17 | hicks_ | zfs send is nice too for backing up snapshots to another machine |
| 17:51.21 | Papillon | it's like btrfs but mature |
| 17:51.25 | Papillon | afaik |
| 17:51.43 | mender27 | not to mention flexible volume handling. Yes, Papillon is spot on. |
| 17:51.45 | namoamitabuddha | cp -rp /home ... |
| 17:51.51 | namoamitabuddha | Is that enough? |
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| 17:52.56 | Papillon | personally I like letting lvm handle most of that stuff, and I don't really thing zfs or btrfs make great general purpose filesystems |
| 17:53.06 | Papillon | but checksumming is nice |
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| 17:53.27 | Papillon | I'm kinda surprised filesystems don't offer file checksums |
| 17:53.30 | hicks_ | I run zfs on my server but ext on desktop (whichever ext version debian setup by default) |
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| 17:53.51 | jhutchins | http://www.guruadvisor.net/en/storage/248-discovering-zfs-pros-and-cons-comparing-to-a-traditional-file-system |
| 17:54.00 | missmbob | Papillon: ext4's maintainer disagrees with you |
| 17:54.09 | mender27 | I try to run zfs whenever possible, though on GNU/Linux it's much harder to do root-on-zfs. |
| 17:54.23 | Papillon | about what? file checksums? |
| 17:54.37 | hicks_ | My server is the first time I've tried zfs, used it for the last 12 month on freenas with no issues. |
| 17:54.52 | jhutchins | Papillon: zfs has the advantage of preserving old copies of files until the new copy is veriried, as well as raid-like reliability. |
| 17:54.59 | missmbob | Papillon: general purpose. it is the future of linux fs, not ext. that's what he said |
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| 17:55.37 | mender27 | And per some testing I've done recently, it's perfectly fine to migrate a ZFS pool between Debian Testing and FreeBSD RELEASE. |
| 17:55.42 | Papillon | jhutchins: you can do that by structuring how you write a change to a filesystem, particularly with journaling |
| 17:55.59 | Papillon | and ext actually supports that fairly well |
| 17:56.03 | jhutchins | Papillon: Read the link if you're interested. |
| 17:56.18 | jhutchins | Papillon: lvm has too much overhead on high-traffic systems. |
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| 17:56.18 | hicks_ | the one limitation I'm not keen on is lack of ability to expand a volume with new disks. You can make more vols and add to a pool, or replace disks with bigger, but not change a 3 disk raidz1 into a 6 disk raidz2 for example. |
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| 17:56.49 | hicks_ | A bit of pre-planning minimises the issues with that, but it'd be nice to see that limitation go away one day. |
| 17:57.42 | mender27 | hicks_, I think per the FreeBSD Handbook raidz pool are not designed to be expanded :). |
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| 17:58.03 | hicks_ | yeah, at least not in terms of adding more disks to the same volume |
| 17:58.32 | hicks_ | you could add 3 more disks as another raidz1 then put both vols in the same pool, but then you have 2x3 disks each of raidz1 |
| 17:58.42 | hicks_ | which is less "safe" than 6 disks in raidz2 |
| 17:59.06 | hicks_ | but that said, backup data, make new vol and restore, not the end of the world :) |
| 18:01.19 | mender27 | Yup, pretty much! I read through the document you linked and most of the cons are not really limitations of the file system, but rather precautions one needs to take. |
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| 18:02.44 | Papillon | I'd like it if partitions were more abstract. Kind of like virtual machines on a vm cluster, able to grow and shrink depending on circumstances |
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| 18:04.56 | Papillon | maybe it could be based more on quotas than fixed sizes |
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| 18:11.24 | mender27 | Well, the concept of virtual devices (vdevs) seems quite reliable and if you combine it with Docker or raw Linux Containers it blows :). |
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| 18:14.30 | Papillon | containers and zfs both came out of solaris 10 |
| 18:14.44 | Papillon | they were probably designed around one another |
| 18:15.24 | mzs114 | Papillon: I think containers first came from BSD - Jails |
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| 18:15.34 | mzs114 | then Solaris implemented something similar |
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| 18:17.06 | mender27 | It's cool to see those features now being vigorously developed for Linux-land. |
| 18:17.25 | Papillon | huh, looks like you're right, freebsd 4 had jails in '00, solaris 10 came out with containers and zfs in '05 |
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| 18:17.50 | mender27 | Yup, containers were written by some company for FreeBSD to allow isolation of processes. |
| 18:17.59 | mzs114 | yeah.. attended so many docker conf/talks that they all repeat the same thing.. BSD jails, Zones, etc |
| 18:18.11 | mender27 | There is even a note in the jail(8) manpage :D. |
| 18:18.20 | mzs114 | I am fed up of docker.. and things based on that |
| 18:18.30 | mender27 | Well, but we do need it, no? |
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| 18:18.34 | mzs114 | liked OpenVZ |
| 18:18.47 | mzs114 | sad it did not get into mainline kernel |
| 18:19.05 | mzs114 | well we don't need it if we had a better alt |
| 18:19.20 | mzs114 | unfortunately GNU/Linux does not have one |
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| 18:20.30 | mender27 | mzs114, why did OpenVZ not make it into the kernel? |
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| 18:22.33 | mzs114 | don't remember the exact history mender27, but something related to patches not being sent/accepted |
| 18:22.34 | mender27 | Ah, I see it has a kernel version restriction. |
| 18:23.06 | mzs114 | yeah, some changes are necessary for that module to run and iirc OpenVZ proj never pushed for this |
| 18:23.08 | mender27 | That's a bit of a bummer, since there are millions of Linux kernel versions and being able to test each of them in a container would be golden. |
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| 18:23.11 | mzs114 | I could be wring |
| 18:23.16 | mzs114 | wrong* |
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| 18:24.40 | mender27 | I think I'll try Docker eventually to isolate some of my devel environments. Previously I used a Gentoo chroot for that, but that was as ridiculous as Jails with ports built manually for each Jail. |
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| 18:25.11 | mzs114 | try it out.. you might like it.. then there is rkt and lxc. |
| 18:25.19 | mzs114 | but my experience is not much with them |
| 18:25.41 | mender27 | I thought Docker wraps around lxc. Need to have a look. |
| 18:25.43 | mzs114 | I like traditional containers and proven ones.. lxc misses one |
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| 18:25.50 | mzs114 | early releases yes |
| 18:25.54 | mzs114 | not anymore |
| 18:26.54 | mender27 | Oh! |
| 18:27.02 | mender27 | Well that sucks, sorry. |
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| 18:27.55 | mender27 | Yup, wiki mentioned "libcontainer" written in Go :/. |
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| 18:40.30 | asarch | Why my Debian box lost the connection with other Linux boxes when I do ssh? |
| 18:40.41 | asarch | Is there any way to know why this is happening? |
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| 18:42.58 | mender27 | asarch, do you mean when connect via ssh to the box or from the box? |
| 18:44.49 | asarch | I do: ssh myotherlinuxbox, inside the the myotherlinuxbox: tmux -u |
| 18:45.06 | asarch | And when I type commands, myotherlinuxbox doesn't respond |
| 18:46.14 | jelly | asarch: is it pingable during that time? |
| 18:46.50 | asarch | No, it isn't: 6 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 5110ms |
| 18:48.13 | jelly | inspect kernel logs if there are any |
| 18:48.24 | jelly | /var/log/kern.log |
| 18:48.38 | jelly | asarch: how do you recover it? |
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| 18:51.20 | asarch | Take a look of my dmesg: libapp-nopaste-perl |
| 18:51.28 | asarch | I mean, http://paste.debian.net/922687/ |
| 18:51.46 | asarch | Yeah, I have to press several times the button jelly |
| 18:51.49 | asarch | (any button) |
| 18:52.05 | jelly | button on what? |
| 18:52.43 | asarch | I mean, any keyboard button |
| 18:52.48 | asarch | In the terminal window |
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| 18:54.42 | jelly | that suggests interrupt issues, which usually have to be worked around in the kernel |
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| 18:55.25 | doublehp | "/usr/bin/sweethome3d: 304: exec: /etc/java-config-2/current-system-vm/bin/java: not found" how do I fix my java ? this bug has been fixed in 2011 for sweethome v3, I have sweethome v4 ... so the issue is in java configuration |
| 18:55.30 | jelly | ,v linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 --arch amd64 |
| 18:55.31 | judd | Package: linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 4.9.13-1~bpo8+1 |
| 18:56.22 | jelly | doublehp: which package does /etc/java-config-2 directory belong to? That doesn't look like debian's alternatives |
| 18:56.32 | jelly | doublehp: which debian release is this? |
| 18:56.38 | doublehp | jelly: i don't know |
| 18:56.52 | doublehp | jelly: jessie |
| 18:56.56 | jelly | doublehp: find out |
| 18:57.13 | doublehp | jelly: directory does not exist |
| 18:57.45 | jelly | then figure out why your software tries to access it |
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| 18:58.44 | jelly | doublehp: do you have an /usr/bin/java ? what do "ls -ld /usr/bin/java" and "readlink -f /usr/bin/java" say? |
| 18:59.02 | doublehp | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:59.11 | doublehp | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:59.28 | jelly | that looks fine, not broken in any way |
| 19:00.04 | jelly | it seems it's not any distro java configuration that's to blame |
| 19:00.53 | jelly | doublehp: if /usr/bin/sweethome3d is a shell script, try running it with -x, see what happens and where it guesses or reads the invalid path from |
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| 19:01.35 | jelly | doublehp: more precisely: run it as "/bin/sh -x /usr/bin/sweethome3d" if its #! line has /bin/sh |
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| 19:02.00 | jelly | if it uses a different shell interpreter, use that |
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| 19:03.00 | toruvinn | [] |
| 19:03.03 | toruvinn | oops, sorry |
| 19:03.19 | doublehp | jelly: source http://paste.debian.net/922698/ output: http://paste.debian.net/922699/ |
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| 19:06.34 | jelly | doublehp: your script seems to be buggy. A casual look suggest it guesses wrong somewhere in "find_java_runtime" function after it's called as "find_java_runtime java6" (line 34) |
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| 19:07.16 | jelly | doublehp: also, why are you running this as root? |
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| 19:07.33 | doublehp | because i am exhausted |
| 19:07.43 | jelly | (or why do you have $HOME set to /root) |
| 19:08.41 | doublehp | this is the 3rd layer of nested deboostrap inside virtualbox machines ... so, no, i am not going to create 4096b RSA password for each submachine and spend hours typing "safe passwords" |
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| 19:08.48 | julius_ | hi |
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| 19:09.34 | jelly | I have no idea what may go wrong when you choose to run random third-party java apps as root |
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| 19:10.20 | jelly | doublehp: verify your environment variable do not already have some java-related weirdness set |
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| 19:10.28 | doublehp | jelly: define thirdparty. i just typed "aptitude install sweethome" from inside a very fresh debootstrap |
| 19:10.30 | jelly | variables* |
| 19:10.32 | namoamitabuddha | Hello |
| 19:10.38 | namoamitabuddha | here, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system#LUKS_on_LVM |
| 19:10.43 | jelly | ,v sweethome |
| 19:10.44 | judd | No package named 'sweethome' was found in amd64. |
| 19:10.47 | jelly | doublehp: ^^ |
| 19:10.49 | namoamitabuddha | it seems to me that the fstab is suggested to be written as: |
| 19:10.58 | jelly | doublehp: is that the correct name? |
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| 19:11.15 | julius_ | one of my network cards on a server (Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ Ethernet Controller (rev 10) does not come up when the system boots (ifconfig does not show it), the system doenst even load he driver..shouldnt a loaded driver: 8139too provide a interface in the ifconfig output? |
| 19:11.16 | doublehp | jelly: after installing the machine, the only other command I had run was "aptitude install vim bash-completion", and edit /etc/bash.bashrc to enable completion, and relogin,and then, install sweethome |
| 19:11.27 | namoamitabuddha | hello |
| 19:11.40 | doublehp | jelly: try to add "3d" in the end |
| 19:11.41 | julius_ | the card worked without problems just a few days ago...i even went back two kernel versions...since the system gets rebooted every day |
| 19:11.46 | namoamitabuddha | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:11.49 | jelly | doublehp: a package named "sweethome" does not seem to exist in debian |
| 19:11.58 | jelly | ,v sweethome3d |
| 19:12.00 | doublehp | sweethome3d |
| 19:12.09 | namoamitabuddha | I don't understand what does tmpfs as a filesystem mean here? |
| 19:12.16 | judd | Package: sweethome3d on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.5+dfsg-1; wheezy-security: 3.5+dfsg-1+deb7u1; wheezy-backports: 4.5+dfsg-2~bpo70+1; jessie: 4.5+dfsg-3; stretch: 5.3+dfsg-2; sid: 5.3+dfsg-2; experimental: 5.4+dfsg-1 |
| 19:12.17 | doublehp | was available even BEFORE i added contrib nonfree |
| 19:12.20 | Papillon | tmpfs is a ramdisk filesystem |
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| 19:12.51 | Papillon | tmpfs stores everything in ram or swap and it's not persistent, if you reboot everything will be gone |
| 19:12.52 | namoamitabuddha | It's a bit different from ramdisk, but here you should notice that he also specifies the block device. |
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| 19:13.12 | namoamitabuddha | it's not something like: tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0 |
| 19:13.13 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: the block device argument is ignored with a tmpfs |
| 19:13.22 | jelly | you can type in anything |
| 19:13.40 | jelly | it's just a string |
| 19:13.43 | namoamitabuddha | Therefore here the wiki page indicates something wrong? |
| 19:13.55 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: which wiki page? |
| 19:14.04 | jelly | doublehp: ah, that's better |
| 19:14.09 | namoamitabuddha | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system#LUKS_on_LVM |
| 19:14.18 | namoamitabuddha | Configuring fstab and crypttab |
| 19:14.57 | doublehp | namoamitabuddha: i personally don't make any difference between a ramdisk and tmpfs; only differes by the creation process, the max size, and how quotas are handeled; a ramdisk can be used at 100%, while a tmpfs may freese the system if you try to use 100% while large apps are running without swap; tmpfs is a bit more concurrent with RAM for apps, |
| 19:15.07 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: ask the archlinux wiki people, maybe? |
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| 19:15.17 | Papillon | tmpfs is a ramdisk that can overflow into swap |
| 19:15.25 | Papillon | which technically is virtual ram |
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| 19:15.31 | Papillon | so it's like a vramfs |
| 19:16.35 | doublehp | namoamitabuddha: usually ramdisks are fixed size, and small; tmpfs are larger, and can be resized; the tmpfs can use up to 80% of your RAM (default is 50%; 80% needs kernel boot options); RDs are used usually only for 1-16MB. |
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| 19:17.23 | doublehp | Papillon: i disagree; to me, a tmpfs can NOT be pushed to swap |
| 19:17.42 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: that doesn't make a lot of sense, I'd say it's misleading if not completely wrong, but who knows, maybe arch has patches |
| 19:17.46 | Papillon | I'm just telling you what I read on wikipedia. But wikipedia's shit |
| 19:18.00 | jelly | doublehp: ramfs can't be pushed to swap. tmpfs CAN. |
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| 19:18.01 | mender27 | Erm, it's not :P. |
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| 19:19.34 | namoamitabuddha | But I don't know how to modify it properly. Here it's a partition with a random passphrase. |
| 19:20.39 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: put "none" instead of "/dev/mapper/tmp" there if you want, no difference |
| 19:21.11 | jelly | or if you _want_ your /tmp to be large and disk-backed, use a different fstype, ext4 or whatnot |
| 19:21.33 | namoamitabuddha | but ext4 cannot be randomly encrypted each boot. |
| 19:21.51 | jelly | correct |
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| 19:22.07 | jelly | I don't know what your preferences and goals are. |
| 19:22.41 | Papillon | why not? |
| 19:22.51 | jelly | following tutorials without understanding the steps and reasons for those steps is probably not a very good idea |
| 19:23.15 | namoamitabuddha | tmp/dev/mapper/MyVol-tmp/dev/urandomtmp,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=256 |
| 19:23.24 | namoamitabuddha | in crypttab |
| 19:23.35 | jelly | Papillon: because it needs to have structures persisting across reboots? |
| 19:23.42 | namoamitabuddha | this means that each boot will fetch the passphrase from /dev/urandom |
| 19:24.06 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: and then you need to create a filesystem on top of it, every time |
| 19:25.15 | namoamitabuddha | Yes, and then maybe highly structured fs like ext4 doesn't fit the goal. |
| 19:25.37 | doublehp | jelly: giving up Java ? going to bed, thanks for trying. |
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| 19:26.37 | jelly | doublehp: sorry. I installed it on a jessie system, started and it Just Works⢠|
| 19:27.10 | jelly | so there's something on your system that makes the script go weird |
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| 19:27.22 | doublehp | jelly: debootstrap |
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| 19:28.36 | jelly | doublehp: how do you pass X socket and credentials into it? |
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| 19:30.14 | doublehp | jelly: chroot does it fine, no clue how |
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| 19:31.45 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: it's still faster and better performing than relying on swap space |
| 19:32.25 | namoamitabuddha | so ext2 or ext4? |
| 19:32.32 | jelly | so choose whether you need a large /tmp with a real filesystem, or a smaller one backed with tmpfs |
| 19:33.44 | jelly | if it's tmpfs, then it does not need or use a separate backend device. It will however use swap space if kernel thinks it needs to page out some of it |
| 19:33.59 | namoamitabuddha | OK |
| 19:34.06 | namoamitabuddha | I don't understand how this works: http://askubuntu.com/a/146641 |
| 19:34.33 | jelly | they use "ext4" as fstype |
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| 19:35.18 | namoamitabuddha | Yes, but they didn't specify anything to mkfs.ext4 for each boot. |
| 19:36.14 | jelly | I have no idea what extra features ubuntu has in their crypttab parsing |
| 19:36.42 | jelly | "man crypttab" on jessie or stretch does not have any mention of "tmp" or "tmp=" |
| 19:36.59 | jelly | oh, it DOES |
| 19:37.06 | jelly | reading wrong man page |
| 19:37.19 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: there ya go, it was a RTFM |
| 19:37.41 | namoamitabuddha | strange enough. I don't have the man page for crypttab |
| 19:38.03 | jelly | namoamitabuddha: which debian release are you using? |
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| 19:39.13 | jelly | if you go "I'm actually running this other distro that's JUST like debian" you're getting a virtual slap |
| 19:39.30 | namoamitabuddha | Debian GNU/Linux 8 \n \l |
| 19:39.43 | namoamitabuddha | /etc/issue |
| 19:39.48 | Papillon | I'm running ubuntu. Maybe you've heard of it? It's... like... the best. So much better than debian |
| 19:39.55 | Papillon | ./s |
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| 19:40.10 | jelly | Papillon: that's just fine as long as you're not the one asking questions! |
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| 19:42.05 | dysfigured | any ideas why `apt-get build-dep vim` is giving me E: Build-Depends dependency for vim cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package debhelper can't satisfy version requirements |
| 19:43.34 | TomTomTo1 | dysfigured: which package are you trying to build? you likely need to have jessie-backports enabled. |
| 19:43.44 | SuperTramp83 | Buguntu! |
| 19:44.08 | dysfigured | TomTomTo1: trying to build vim from source. i have backports enabled.. |
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| 19:49.02 | TomTomTo1 | dysfigured: can you paste the whole output to paste.debian.net and also apt-cache policy debhelper |
| 19:50.13 | dysfigured | that's 99% entirely the whole output, except the, "reading package list, building dep tree, reading state information" bit |
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| 19:51.05 | namoamitabuddha | that's due to cryptsetup isn't installed |
| 19:51.11 | namoamitabuddha | only cryptsetup-bin is installed |
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| 19:53.32 | dysfigured | http://ix.io/p6Q TomTomTo1 |
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| 19:57.41 | jelly | judd: checkbackport vim |
| 19:57.42 | judd | Backporting package vim in sidâjessie/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using jessie, virtual, jessie-backports. |
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| 19:58.50 | jelly | dysfigured: add -t jessie-backports to the command, see if it makes a difference |
| 19:59.03 | TomTomTo1 | dysfigured: interesting. you can try installing debhelper manually and see if the output changes to something usable or you can try using aptitude build-dep and see if it handles it differently. |
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| 19:59.33 | namoamitabuddha | thank you all. reboot to check |
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| 20:03.57 | dysfigured | did i make some kind of frankedebian? i don't understand why i can't get build-deps without needing the backport trick |
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| 20:10.34 | Lyberta | hi, I've just bought a VDS and installed Debian on it, I want to serve web pages, what DNS server should I install? |
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| 20:14.06 | dysfigured | Lyberta: idk what a vds is, and i've never heard of someone installing a dns server... but if you want to serve web pages you probably want either apache or nginx |
| 20:14.43 | Papillon | virtual server in the cloud? |
| 20:14.48 | Papillon | I forget what they're called |
| 20:14.50 | Papillon | vm |
| 20:14.51 | Lyberta | dysfigured, virtual dedicated server, I've already installed apache |
| 20:15.07 | missmbob | bind9 is standard |
| 20:15.15 | Lyberta | but I need to somehow point people to my IP |
| 20:15.18 | Lyberta | I see |
| 20:16.28 | Papillon | there's that free dns thing... |
| 20:17.24 | missmbob | most dns providers can handle dns for you via a web interface. whichever |
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| 20:17.37 | missmbob | host* |
| 20:17.40 | Papillon | huh, dyndns shut down it's free plan |
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| 20:18.02 | dysfigured | there's duckdns |
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| 20:41.47 | Dungeon | hey guys when i try to apt install apt-show-versions i get an error |
| 20:42.03 | beernbhroy | any recommendations for tile based wm? |
| 20:42.09 | Dungeon | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:42.09 | Dungeon | E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). |
| 20:42.17 | beernbhroy | mp3 player |
| 20:42.40 | Dungeon | but then when you try to install libapt-pkg-perl i get another error |
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| 20:43.31 | dysfigured | beernbhroy: do you have programming experience? |
| 20:43.40 | Dungeon | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:43.40 | Dungeon | E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). |
| 20:44.03 | beernbhroy | dysfigured: yeah but im more a network engineer |
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| 20:44.58 | dysfigured | well you have two sort of types of wms, plain-text config, and code-based config. i3 is generally the most popular of the former, and the latter you have a lot of more choices (and also a lot more control) |
| 20:45.18 | beernbhroy | im on i3 atm and i like it alot |
| 20:45.24 | beernbhroy | but im missing a good mp3 player |
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| 20:46.21 | dysfigured | beernbhroy: i'm in love with mpd but you might find it overkill. cmus might be more suitable |
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| 20:47.01 | beernbhroy | ty dysfigured i'll give it a try |
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| 20:47.18 | dysfigured | i suppose it depends on if you want a tui or gui based |
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| 20:47.25 | beernbhroy | tui |
| 20:47.41 | dysfigured | try cmus then. or i think moc |
| 20:48.50 | beernbhroy | cmus looks very plain i like it |
| 20:49.31 | dysfigured | if you can stomach the config process, mpd is also worth trying |
| 20:50.29 | Dungeon | hey guys when i try to apt install apt-show-versions i get an error |
| 20:50.37 | Dungeon | apt-show-versions : Depends: libapt-pkg-perl (>= 0.1.21) but it is not going to be installed |
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| 20:50.45 | Dungeon | E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). |
| 20:51.02 | Dungeon | now i was advised that webmin isnt a good program to run |
| 20:51.31 | Dungeon | however i dont know how to reverse the install nor do i know how to get that apt package installed |
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| 20:52.41 | beernbhroy | dungeon: apt-get remove foobar |
| 20:53.44 | beernbhroy | Dungeon: check your /etc/apt/sources.list on which release you are, maybe you can fix your problem by downloading a package from packages.debian.org and install it by dpkg manually |
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| 20:55.39 | Dungeon | only thing in there is like 6 linode links |
| 20:55.57 | Dungeon | wait 4 from linode and 2 from debian |
| 20:56.40 | beernbhroy | yet another crippled vps image :o |
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| 21:14.49 | rnd_ | Anyone has any idea why am I getting this: http://pastebin.com/Uxkw177W while building the kernel |
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| 21:24.01 | ice303 | hi |
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| 21:25.17 | jhutchins | rnd_: That is not actually enough of the output, but you missed a step or a package or did not follow the directions correctly. The Nvidia drivers are usually built as a module, and can be maintained with dkms, which is the preferred method. |
| 21:26.37 | jhutchins | Dungeon: This is the expected outcome when you mix repositories. |
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| 21:26.56 | jhutchins | !linode |
| 21:27.19 | rnd_ | jhuthins: well, this came almost at the end of the build after more than an hour...before that all i did is unpacked the source, made a copy of /boot/config-`uname -r` to ./.config , did a make menuconfig |
| 21:27.27 | mcintosh | what is !linode supposed to be? (just wondering) |
| 21:27.33 | sypher | rnd_: What are you trying to accomplish by building a new kernel? |
| 21:27.49 | rnd_ | make-kpkg clean ; and then fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --apend-to-version=-custom kernel_image kernel_headers |
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| 21:28.23 | rnd_ | sypher: restart the system with the new kernel? |
| 21:28.33 | sypher | rnd_: WHY is this new kernel needed? |
| 21:28.51 | jhutchins | mcintosh: It's a cloud hosting service that hosts it's own Debian mirrors. Probably had a release mismatch or some such. |
| 21:29.07 | mcintosh | jhutchins: i work there - was just wondering about the alias :) |
| 21:29.18 | rnd_ | sypher: Well, there isnt anything specific about it that I need, but is that a reason no to try to compile it? |
| 21:29.43 | sypher | rnd_: So you're just building a new kernel for giggles? |
| 21:29.44 | jhutchins | mcintosh: Oh! The ! character is the same as addressing the dpkg channel bot. |
| 21:30.03 | jhutchins | mcintosh: I was checking to see if there was a cautionary factoid. |
| 21:30.13 | mcintosh | ah, I see |
| 21:30.14 | sypher | jhutchins: I'd be surprised if the Linode mirrors were that screwed up. |
| 21:30.16 | rnd_ | sypher: If I cant do it for giggles today, I wont be able to do it for money tomorrow |
| 21:30.17 | jhutchins | mcintosh: Using , triggers judd. |
| 21:30.24 | rnd_ | sypher: but yes |
| 21:31.28 | jhutchins | sypher: Yeah, but what he has is mis-matched dependencies, so he might have used the wrong release tag or something like that. I would expect their repos to be pretty reliable, if possibly tuned for their own environment. |
| 21:31.35 | sypher | rnd_: That's... nonsense on so many levels. |
| 21:32.01 | sypher | jhutchins: Then he would have had to screw with it, because the default sources.list at Linode is identical to a stock jessie install, just aimed at the local mirror. |
| 21:32.01 | jhutchins | rnd_: What guide are you following? |
| 21:32.32 | jhutchins | sypher: He said he had both linode and debian sources. |
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| 21:32.55 | sypher | jhutchins: Linode for packages and debian for security updates, probably. |
| 21:33.08 | rnd_ | jhutchins: https://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_ubuntu |
| 21:33.11 | jhutchins | !custom kernel |
| 21:33.11 | dpkg | Read http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Why and read "Debian" when it has "OpenBSD". Also ask me about <kernel-handbook>. |
| 21:33.15 | missmbob | linode uses it for their monitoring software |
| 21:33.19 | rnd_ | And Im trying to do it on a Xubuntu VM |
| 21:33.22 | sypher | missmbob: Separate repo. |
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| 21:33.34 | jhutchins | rnd_: This is not Ubuntu. |
| 21:33.55 | jhutchins | rnd_: Kernel specifics are one of the ways they differ. |
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| 21:34.08 | jhutchins | rnd_: See the message from dpkg above. |
| 21:34.10 | rnd_ | Im all ears. |
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| 21:34.29 | sypher | !tell rnd_ about ubuntu |
| 21:34.41 | jhutchins | rnd_: If you're actually doing it on ubuntu, please ask in their channel(s). |
| 21:35.16 | jhutchins | rnd_: That which fixes Debian often breaks Ubuntu. |
| 21:35.29 | sypher | rnd_: And note that (virtually) no sane enterprise runs servers on custom-compiled kernels. I'm sure there is the rare exception. |
| 21:35.59 | rnd_ | This seemed to me as a debian issue |
| 21:36.05 | rnd_ | In the error msg |
| 21:36.08 | jhutchins | sypher: Not too rare, but often built once and placed in a local repo. |
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| 21:36.24 | sypher | jhutchins: Anecdotal here, but I have yet to encounter any environment where that's done. |
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| 21:36.52 | sypher | rnd_: Are you running Ubuntu? |
| 21:37.01 | jhutchins | sypher: If they have non-standard hardware, or special environmental needs, or insanely meddlesome security CIOs. |
| 21:37.09 | rnd_ | Im running Debian |
| 21:37.23 | sypher | rnd_: You just said you were doing this on a Xubuntu VM, so now you appear to be lying. |
| 21:37.44 | towo` | rnd_, if you think, it's a debian issue, then don't use make-kpkg |
| 21:37.46 | rnd_ | Im running Debian, but it is a xubuntu vm where im trying to compile the kernel |
| 21:37.51 | towo` | rnd_, because it's dead jim |
| 21:37.58 | sypher | jhutchins: The first, I might understand. The second and third make it no longer a sane enterprise. :P |
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| 21:38.12 | towo` | rnd_, and the error you have pasted is not a debian issue |
| 21:38.24 | sypher | rnd_: The issue occurs in a not Debian VM, meaning you're not running Debian, meaning you're in the wrong channel. |
| 21:38.33 | sypher | rnd_: Please seek assistance in the venue previously noted. |
| 21:38.37 | towo` | rnd_, and no one can and will help you, because the important part of the error is missing |
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| 21:39.06 | rnd_ | well thats the whole output |
| 21:39.15 | towo` | no, is not |
| 21:39.22 | sypher | jhutchins: Well, the second (special environmental needs) might be plausible as well, I can't predict everywhere. The third issue is definitely a not-sane environment. |
| 21:39.52 | sypher | rnd_: Your concern is off-topic for this channel. Please, seek assistance in the appropriate channel. |
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| 21:40.06 | rnd_ | sure |
| 21:40.48 | towo` | rnd_, btw, if you can't handle building a rc-kernel, you shouldn't do it |
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| 21:41.24 | waxheadm | how can i find out if the btrfs-tools will be upgraded to match the kernel version in stretch |
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| 21:41.41 | mcintosh | fwiw webmin install from scratch works totally fine on a debian 8 linode - don't think the issue has anything to do with Linode mirrors/distro images |
| 21:41.50 | jhutchins | sypher: Even more common for the latter is a custom build of apache with a unique installation. |
| 21:42.06 | sypher | jhutchins: Like for a webhost? |
| 21:43.19 | jhutchins | sypher: Like the load ballancer proxying to three Solaris nodes which then proxy via Apache to two Linux boxes running very non-standard Apache. |
| 21:43.34 | sypher | jhutchins: That sounds horrid. |
| 21:43.52 | jhutchins | sypher: Fortunately, it will die this year, but perhaps not until the end of May. |
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| 21:44.31 | jhutchins | sypher: I sometimes suspect that there were people who built things both for obfuscation and to impress people with their ability to work completely outside the box. |
| 21:44.45 | sypher | jhutchins: I'm still cringing. |
| 21:45.09 | jhutchins | sypher: Next meeting 10:00 Monday. |
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| 21:45.54 | jhutchins | sypher: We're pretty sure nobody at the agency even knows they have a web site. |
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| 21:48.03 | mcintosh | jhutchins: ah that dependency issue stems from trying to install webmin before an apt-get upgrade |
| 21:48.39 | n4dir | !webmin |
| 21:48.39 | dpkg | Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at http://webmin.com/ Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see http://bugs.debian.org/343897 . The Debian package from webmin.com is of poor quality. See <free whcp> for alternatives. |
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| 21:50.19 | teraflops | mcintosh: it was me like 12 hours ago talking to you about the crapiness of webmin? |
| 21:51.03 | jhutchins | mcintosh: I had the misfortune of having to manage a webmin'ed server for a couple of years. When it breaks, you have to not only know how things are supposed to be configured in Linux, but how webmin breaks ALL of those rules. |
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| 21:51.38 | mcintosh | teraflops: nope! i hate it too, though |
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| 21:52.28 | mcintosh | jhutchins: pretty much all panels are terrible IMO (there are a few that aren't entirely dreadful but they're mostly pointless) |
| 21:52.43 | mcintosh | but webmin is definitely not among the most useful, that's for sure |
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| 21:54.34 | teraflops | webmin polutes config files and do weird things like (last time I checked) chattr +i apache config files |
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| 21:56.40 | somiaj | !webmin |
| 21:56.40 | dpkg | Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at http://webmin.com/ Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see http://bugs.debian.org/343897 . The Debian package from webmin.com is of poor quality. See <free whcp> for alternatives. |
| 21:56.52 | missmbob | it's a friends dont let friends situtation |
| 21:56.58 | somiaj | I would suggest looking at some of those /msg dpkg fee whcp if you really want such a thing. |
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| 21:59.38 | yokisuci | t12321 |
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| 22:00.38 | tempate | Hello |
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| 22:01.11 | tempate | What is the official link to downloading debians ISO for vbox? |
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| 22:03.41 | somiaj | tempate: what do you mean by iso for vbox? |
| 22:04.21 | tempate | somiaj, I want to install Debian (no desktop) as a Virtual Machine on Virtual Box. |
| 22:04.29 | jim | towo`, haven;t heard -that- one before... |
| 22:04.49 | tempate | somiaj, my question is: "What is the official or most reliable link to download it." |
| 22:05.01 | towo` | jim, ? |
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| 22:07.10 | tempate | Sorry for that, I am back |
| 22:07.21 | missmbob | cdimage.debian.org |
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| 22:07.32 | somiaj | tempate: debian.org, and there is not special about a vbox iso. A netinstall image should be sufficent. |
| 22:08.36 | Oer | Tempesta, installation iso ? or pre-installed vm for vbox, https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads |
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| 22:10.11 | tempate | somiaj: Alright, thanks |
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| 22:15.02 | jim | towo`, [20170319 14:37:51] <towo`> rnd_, because it's dead jim |
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| 22:16.34 | towo` | jim, ah, sorry for that hilight, but it's a quote of captain kirk |
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| 22:17.47 | jim | I'm well aware :) (and the quote is of Docter McCoy) |
| 22:18.19 | towo` | yes, that's what i mean |
| 22:18.23 | towo` | it's late here |
| 22:18.34 | jim | no huge deal |
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| 22:19.26 | jim | Deforest Kelly |
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| 22:20.39 | tempate | a |
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| 22:32.08 | yokisuci | exit |
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| 22:58.24 | Dungeon | hey guys... i used the information from the wikis lamp section on my server |
| 22:58.52 | Dungeon | http://ip works but ssl https://ip dont. |
| 22:59.19 | Dungeon | however ssl is working for a specific configured admin utility |
| 22:59.39 | Dungeon | how to i turn it on by default for the ip itself |
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| 23:20.53 | irc3k | listen.. |
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| 23:21.31 | rick8024 | Hello. When do I use apt-get, when dpkg and when aptitude? It seams I don't understand the difference of those. |
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| 23:22.28 | Papillon | typically you just use apt, apt install sudo |
| 23:22.30 | zykotick9 | rick8024: don't forget about the new kid on the block, apt. |
| 23:22.31 | irc3k | rick8024: apt-get to get stuff from the debian repo. |
| 23:22.49 | Papillon | if you've downloaded a package, say, an nvidia .deb driver, then you might use dpkg |
| 23:22.49 | irc3k | dpkg when you're installing packages that you've downloaded from a browser or a CD or something. |
| 23:22.50 | dpkg | irc3k: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 23:23.01 | irc3k | dpkg: eat a dick |
| 23:23.02 | dpkg | eats a dick, *CHOMP* *CHOMP* *CHOMP* |
| 23:23.07 | irc3k | uhm k. |
| 23:23.22 | somiaj | rick8024: dpkg is rarely used but is the core package manager. apt/apt-get/aptitude can be used interchangably. They have slightly different logic, but do most the same things. Most choose apt, some choose aptitude as their default |
| 23:23.23 | irc3k | rick8024: and aptitude IS apt-get, they're not different. |
| 23:23.39 | somiaj | irc3k: they are different. aptitude has different logic. Aptitude also contains a curses gui |
| 23:23.45 | zykotick9 | irc3k: they _are_ different. the resolvers are different... |
| 23:23.51 | irc3k | oh ok |
| 23:24.09 | mcintosh | aptitude is supposed to be "higher" level but almost everyone I know passes on using it |
| 23:24.45 | mcintosh | aptitude and apt-get may not be the exact same, but they're usually used in the same context/for similar purposes - as opposed to dpkg |
| 23:24.50 | irc3k | doesn't it bother you that you're working as a community here, helping out others, contributing, coding etc.. while some MONKEY out there rape and live on tax money? serious question. Demotivating, I don't want to do FOSS anymore with people like that around. |
| 23:24.53 | somiaj | mcintosh: aptitude is generally slower than apt, and in most cases will come to the same solution. aptitude can help in some situations apt can't figure out (but sometimes apt can figure out thigns aptitude can't) |
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| 23:25.18 | mcintosh | somiaj: that's pretty vague but fair :p |
| 23:25.27 | rick8024 | thank you guys. That makes things clearer :) |
| 23:25.51 | somiaj | mcintosh: /msg dpkg why apt-get then why aptitude why not apt-get why not aptitude. Gives some more differences. In the end it is mostly personal choice, there are just some cases one will work better than another. |
| 23:26.01 | somiaj | irc3k: that is off topic here. Please stick to debian support. |
| 23:26.05 | Papillon | maybe that's why gnome keeps getting worse and worse and worse irc3k |
| 23:26.09 | TomTomTosch | aptitude has a neat search syntax that apt lacks. |
| 23:26.36 | somiaj | mcintosh: it is nice to have both around, and aptitude has some more advance search capabilities, and a curses gui. |
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| 23:35.21 | psychoticwarrior | hey whats up |
| 23:35.43 | Papillon | not much |
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| 23:36.58 | MrGopherTeeth | MAN WHAT THE FUCK |
| 23:37.06 | teraflops | clam down |
| 23:37.19 | Papillon | ping monster requires sacrifices |
| 23:37.27 | somiaj | MrGopherTeeth: do you have a debian support question? |
| 23:37.37 | MrGopherTeeth | My apologies, dear Lord. |
| 23:37.41 | MrGopherTeeth | What was I thinking. |
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| 23:58.13 | tempate | Hello |
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