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| 00:21.04 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch frozen 2017-02-05; /msg dpkg stretch freeze | Unwanted private messages? /umode +R | point release 8.7 of Debian Jessie released! /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.7; /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie ; /msg dpkg install jessie | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:34.44 | MsLisa | trying to install libgnutls-openssl-dev. it's in libgnutls28-dev but if i install libgnutls28-dev it breaks other things. |
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| 00:34.57 | mike_ | hi all |
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| 00:36.09 | Guest13464 | i have installed debian 8 jessie on my new laptop, i installed nvidia-driver from backports, nouveau driver is well blacklisted in modprod.d but i have ablack screen when i boot up the machine or restart gdm service |
| 00:36.17 | Guest13464 | any idea? |
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| 00:41.59 | pingfloyd | Guest13464: have you tried using nomodeset? |
| 00:42.13 | Guest13464 | yes |
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| 00:42.39 | Guest13464 | it is configured in /ec/default/grub and then grub-mkconfig -o /boot/..... |
| 00:42.57 | Guest13464 | my graphic card is a Nvidia 940MX |
| 00:43.09 | Guest13464 | it is supported by nvidia-driver from backport |
| 00:43.17 | pingfloyd | under GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT? |
| 00:43.27 | Guest13464 | and i have no error in Xorg.0.log |
| 00:43.43 | Guest13464 | yes under grub_cmdline_linux_default |
| 00:44.39 | pingfloyd | you can check if in effect with cat /proc/cmdline |
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| 00:45.38 | Guest13464 | should i see "nomodeset" in the output? |
| 00:45.42 | Guest13464 | because i dont |
| 00:46.11 | Guest13464 | i se BOOT_IMAGE=........ root=...... ro single |
| 00:48.45 | Guest13464 | ok i see it now |
| 00:48.49 | Guest13464 | ut same results |
| 00:48.58 | Guest13464 | just the resolution is lower |
| 00:49.03 | Guest13464 | but still no X |
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| 00:50.27 | Guest13464 | in Xorg.0.log i got a Warning (WW) saying: NVIDIA(0): unabe to get display device for DPI computation |
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| 00:52.10 | Guest13464 | pingfloyd: any idea? |
| 00:55.02 | Guest13464 | in dmesg i have: vgaarb this pci device is not a vga device |
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| 01:04.11 | pingfloyd | no sure |
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| 01:04.44 | Guest13464 | pingfloyd: i deinstall nvidiadriver |
| 01:04.51 | Guest13464 | enable bacl nouveau |
| 01:04.57 | Guest13464 | and i still got the same thing |
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| 01:05.11 | Guest13464 | but in my xork log i have no device detected and no screen found |
| 01:05.19 | Guest13464 | any idea? |
| 01:06.12 | Guest13464 | pingfloyd: |
| 01:06.26 | Guest13464 | so now i have X running but in very very low resolution |
| 01:06.34 | Guest13464 | and i cannot change it |
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| 02:08.39 | Ubuntu-BR | There is some way to Disable Journaling file system in FSTAB file? or only by mount Read-Only and do "tune2fs -O ^has_journal /dev/sda1" ? |
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| 02:09.39 | Poster | you could mount it as ext2 |
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| 04:19.13 | KodingKitty_ | hi |
| 04:19.56 | KodingKitty_ | any idea how arm packages are build ? |
| 04:20.00 | KodingKitty_ | are they cross compiled ? |
| 04:20.26 | KodingKitty_ | or they are just compiled on a arm build machine ? |
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| 04:22.10 | somiaj | looks like sbuild might use qemu for this |
| 04:23.03 | KodingKitty | but I can't use the qemu since my processor is OMAP4 and not supported it in Qemu yet. Linaro have ported for OMAP3 board, but no luck for OMAP4. |
| 04:23.28 | KodingKitty | What to do in a situation like that ? |
| 04:23.40 | KodingKitty | I can extract the buildroot anyway. |
| 04:23.58 | KodingKitty | but how can I install libraries ? |
| 04:24.42 | KodingKitty | any idea how could I do that? |
| 04:25.13 | somiaj | I'm not sure on the details, maybe this is a starting point https://wiki.debian.org/buildd |
| 04:26.09 | somiaj | I also thought qemu was software emulation, so surprised it wont' work for some cpu. #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net might have more details on how the offical debian buildd envoiroment works for the other arches. But I belive qemu is what is used with chroots over cross compile |
| 04:29.29 | somiaj | https://wiki.debian.org/CrossCompiling#Building_with_sbuild |
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| 04:31.14 | somiaj | but I'm unsure on the details here, #debian-mentors may be better |
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| 04:45.30 | Canucktux | yay I did it |
| 04:45.42 | Canucktux | I ran Xorg :0 -configure |
| 04:45.46 | awal1 | #debian on oftc not available or what? |
| 04:45.50 | Canucktux | and my intel gpu is happy now! |
| 04:46.03 | Canucktux | I don't know why it didn't work before |
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| 04:47.47 | awal1 | users limit reached bla bla bla |
| 04:47.57 | Zer0Day | is there possible way that the repositories in kali can be added in ubuntu? |
| 04:48.32 | somiaj | only if you want to break your system. But this is #debian and we dont' support kali or ubuntu |
| 04:49.03 | mandeep | awal1: the bot has gone awol i suppose |
| 04:50.12 | Canucktux | Zer0Day: just don't do it familam https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_make_a_FrankenDebian |
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| 04:51.21 | Zer0Day | somiaj: why u dont support kali and ubuntu? is it illegal in ur country right now? |
| 04:53.48 | Canucktux | Zer0Day: this is the official Debian channel, we gotta stay topical and whatnot |
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| 04:54.29 | somiaj | !based on debian |
| 04:54.29 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 04:54.39 | somiaj | Zer0Day: combination of technical and social ressons. |
| 04:55.08 | Zer0Day | thanks guys... |
| 04:55.24 | Zer0Day | but wait! is there a room for tor users? |
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| 04:56.03 | somiaj | tor users? Tor isn't an operating system, if wantting support with tor you may want to use the appropriate support for your os |
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| 04:56.17 | somiaj | though many software projects ahve their own support outside of any os |
| 04:56.19 | Zer0Day | somiaj: Tor Browser i mean |
| 04:57.45 | nkuttler | Zer0Day: #tor, on oftc |
| 04:58.43 | Zer0Day | nkuttler: what is oftc means? |
| 04:58.55 | Zer0Day | i know its a network but what does it mean |
| 04:59.01 | nkuttler | Zer0Day: i'm sure you can figure that out on your own |
| 05:01.45 | Zer0Day | nkuttler: lots of online in the tor channel but no one is active |
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| 05:13.08 | awal1 | why the bots (debian oftc right now) are all the time setting user limit access? |
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| 05:19.37 | pragomer_1 | how can I register my irc-nick? |
| 05:19.40 | pragomer_1 | according to this |
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| 05:19.47 | pragomer_1 | https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration |
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| 05:20.03 | pragomer_1 | stands "NickServ" for my desired Nickname? |
| 05:21.11 | jelly | awal1: it's supposed to be a join flood (bot) mitigation |
| 05:21.51 | awal1 | jelly, ok |
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| 05:24.01 | awal1 | proomer_1, whith he username you want just run /msg NickServ REGISTER yourpassword youremaladress |
| 05:24.11 | awal1 | nothing complicated |
| 05:24.33 | awal1 | if you have troubles/wanna more info check #freenode |
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| 05:25.30 | awal1 | pragomer_1, ^ |
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| 05:28.53 | pragomer_1 | so the username that will be registered is that one that I run at the moment?? |
| 05:31.42 | awal1 | pragomer_1, yeah |
| 05:32.08 | awal1 | but /nick NewNick should work if you want to choose another one to register |
| 05:33.43 | awal1 | you can choose another nickname graphically using your irc client, hexchat can do it |
| 05:35.25 | pragomer_1 | ups.. Im in hexchat.. so let me see :-) |
| 05:35.55 | awal1 | click in your username, left of text bar |
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| 05:38.23 | pragomer | ok. great. I registered :-) |
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| 05:38.53 | awal1 | (Y) |
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| 07:04.00 | qwertylm | Can anyone recommend a good guide to setting up btrfs and snapper on debian? |
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| 07:31.51 | quitisomes | Hello good morning from Spain!!! |
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| 07:32.06 | quitisomes | Does somebody got any idea about using UFTP service??? |
| 07:32.30 | quitisomes | Im running @raspberry and i got an error and cant find any info about this and my boss is gonna kill me t.t |
| 07:33.03 | awal1 | dpkg: raspberry |
| 07:33.03 | dpkg | The Raspberry Pi is an open hardware design based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. http://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ #raspberrypi on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 07:33.14 | at0m | quitisomes: running raspbian? /join #raspbian |
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| 07:33.54 | awal1 | dpkg: raspbian |
| 07:33.55 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/ |
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| 08:19.21 | sonique | Hello, I want to ask pretty stupid and ease question (but I don't know answer yet). I have debian with i3wm tiling manager and I want to setup default file manager to XFE, because now for exmaple when I click open zip file in folder it opens audacios |
| 08:19.51 | sonique | * and how to do it without external apps and new utils, just from terminal in default distro |
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| 08:49.33 | astephanh | Hi. i occasionally need to rebuild deb packages (for example backports) and upload them into my own repo via reprepro. so far i used Virtualbox Images to have the correct environment. I'd like to track my changes in some way, like git or subversion. Maybe i could build some kind of build pipeline. is there any documentation to setup such an environment? |
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| 08:49.55 | astephanh | maybe based on docker or some chroot scripts? |
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| 08:50.33 | pcfreak30 | what is wrong with this interfaces file? https://gist.github.com/pcfreak30/341465e45214f20c3b885bfed9abde86 cant get eth3 up. |
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| 09:27.41 | readytogo | I heard there is free shells giveaway in ##thunix, only for 30 days |
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| 09:39.57 | celyr | readytogo, that's the worst spam I've ever heard of |
| 09:40.58 | celyr | !ops |
| 09:40.59 | dpkg | Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel. |
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| 09:41.19 | celyr | dpkg: ops spam |
| 09:41.19 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: celyr complains about: spam |
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| 09:44.55 | ppisljar | good morning |
| 09:47.03 | ppisljar | how can i make keyboard shortcut send another keyboard to a specific app/window ? for example skype has a mute button, and a shortcut CTRL+A to toggle it, however it will only work if its window is focused. i want to define a global keyboard shortcut which will send CTRL+A to skype (if its running) |
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| 09:48.14 | p0g0__ | ppisljar: there are gui "keyboard macro" tools that will switch contexts on a keystroke. |
| 09:48.38 | ppisljar | any you can recommend ? |
| 09:50.54 | p0g0__ | Not so much, you should search around... I've used a couple under Linux (my old fav is Borland's Superkey, which is about 30 years old and gone). If you've never used such a tool, they are both powerful and a bit hard to implement. |
| 09:51.20 | ppisljar | thanks |
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| 10:12.15 | colo-work | does anyone of you use systemd-nspawn to host persistent containers on Debian stretch, and can recommend docs to read up on doing that? (would like to replace LXC for a testing setup of ours, if possible) |
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| 10:30.06 | readytogo | its not |
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| 10:52.18 | Azrael_- | i want to run a specific command every time the system has finished starting up. where should i put it best? |
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| 10:54.25 | blackflow | I wonder what's the point of having youtube-dl in debian repos. That thing breaks so fast and is fixed so fast, sometimes faster than it takes for the update to reach stable from sid. You're always better off installing from pip (in a virtualenv to avoid polluting /usr) |
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| 10:54.52 | blackflow | s/stable/testing ... it never reaches stable |
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| 10:59.36 | persiandrugs | >having youtube-dl in the first place |
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| 11:04.53 | slack2 | hi |
| 11:05.06 | slack2 | my server dont boot, i give this error |
| 11:05.08 | slack2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:05.15 | blackflow | persiandrugs: what do you mean? |
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| 11:11.00 | Brigo | slack2, did it boot now? |
| 11:12.06 | slack2 | Brigo, no |
| 11:12.17 | slack2 | never boot |
| 11:12.28 | Brigo | slack2, still stuck with that error? |
| 11:13.28 | Brigo | slack2, try this: https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Debugging/ |
| 11:13.29 | slack2 | is a VPS in datacenter. Yesterday i have rebooted, and blocking in this step |
| 11:13.47 | Brigo | slack2, or boot in rescue mode and check logs |
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| 11:14.02 | slack2 | i am in rescue mode now |
| 11:14.10 | slack2 | what log i need to see? |
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| 11:15.02 | jelly | blackflow: I don't like having two package managers, esp. anything language-specific like pip |
| 11:16.04 | jelly | so having packages available via the usual method is nice |
| 11:16.08 | Brigo | slack2, dmesg, syslog. |
| 11:16.21 | Brigo | slack2, or juse journalctl if available |
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| 11:18.39 | slack2 | Brigo, yesterday i have doing rm -rf /var/log/syslog /var/log/daemon.log |
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| 11:19.02 | slack2 | beacause the size amount 3GB |
| 11:19.20 | slack2 | can is the cause for dont boot? |
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| 11:20.28 | coke | jelly: that allready didnt work well for CPAN ;) |
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| 11:22.14 | jelly | at least there's dh-make-perl for those |
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| 11:23.39 | coke | virtual env or pip install --user is what you are looking for if you cant accept non distribution files |
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| 11:27.16 | jelly | coke: not "can't", "do not want to" |
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| 11:29.07 | coke | poteto/potato |
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| 11:30.25 | jelly | policy and ability are quite different things |
| 11:31.34 | coke | youtube-dl is the perfect example of something that should never be a distribution package |
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| 11:31.58 | coke | just never going to be stable |
| 11:32.43 | coke | and its also something that i dont need every version of because i dont use it very much |
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| 11:33.09 | jelly | let's also throw clamav out of the distro |
| 11:33.28 | blackflow | jelly: yeah but what's the point of having a package if it's constantly broken and unusable, that's what I'm asking. for example, I can't use it right now, and the fix is in version from yesterday. by the time this version comes to testing, or stable-backports, that version will be broken again. |
| 11:33.30 | jelly | every user can build their own! |
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| 11:37.11 | jelly | blackflow: that's what stable-updates is supposed to manage |
| 11:39.00 | coke | just put your time into the project and see how long you last |
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| 11:39.42 | coke | 1st step: build and test a package for yourself |
| 11:40.21 | jelly | I've already done uupdate and buildpackage of that particular piece of software a couple times |
| 11:40.53 | coke | good |
| 11:40.57 | coke | keep doing it forever |
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| 11:41.41 | jelly | as soon as someone reports breakage, sure |
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| 11:44.52 | blackflow | jelly: yes, but, again, by the time it reaches updates, it's borken and a newer version sits upstream. |
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| 11:46.58 | jelly | blackflow: that's not how -updates work |
| 11:47.08 | jelly | it's just a direct upload AFAIUI |
| 11:47.21 | jelly | !stable-updates |
| 11:47.21 | dpkg | jessie-updates is a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from jessie-updates will be included in point releases. https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates . Not to be confused with <jessie/updates> which is for <security> updates. |
| 11:47.34 | jelly | !volatile |
| 11:47.34 | dpkg | Debian Volatile was a project aiming at keeping Debian releases up-to-date for fast moving packages such as virus scanners, spam scanners and firmware downloaders. It was replaced by the <stable-updates> suite as of Debian 6.0 "Squeeze". http://lists.debian.org/debian-volatile-announce/2012/msg00000.html |
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| 11:48.23 | vehicle | npm is gone from stretch |
| 11:48.51 | vehicle | repository is deb http://mirror.yandex.ru/debian/ stretch main contrib |
| 11:49.04 | vehicle | apr search npm gives nothing usefull |
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| 11:50.35 | blackflow | jelly: it seems there even isn't youtube-dl in jessie-updates ? or am I looking wrong: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=jessie-updates&keywords=youtube-dl |
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| 11:51.20 | blackflow | oh there's -updates and there's /updates and can this be any more confusing? :) |
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| 11:51.26 | blackflow | wth |
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| 11:53.32 | blackflow | okay, so how can I browse the stable-updates packages and see what's in there? I can't seem to find a link from PTS |
| 11:54.06 | askz | Hi there, is there any chance to make the internal-sftp work with a ForceCommand directive in sshd_config ? |
| 11:54.41 | askz | the ForceCommand is a docker run -it ubuntu bash (I simplified the command), but its almost this |
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| 11:58.00 | Brigo | slack2_, no, it ca't be the problem |
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| 12:01.50 | ksk | askz: I dont think so, you probably need two different users for that. |
| 12:02.03 | slack2_ | Brigo, do you know how i can solve this? |
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| 12:02.37 | Brigo | slack2_, i don't know where the problem is, you need to check the logs for that |
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| 12:03.28 | spaceone | i always need to do "dpkg-source --commit" when i change a package before building with dpkg-buildpackage. can i somehow deactivate this? because i want to debug some things more fast |
| 12:03.44 | askz | ksk: sadly, I thought about that... I don't know so much about the mechanism here, but is there any chance I can't substitude my ForceCommand with a script, and detect if it's sftp or shell being asked |
| 12:03.45 | askz | ? |
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| 12:03.54 | askz | I can* |
| 12:04.07 | jelly | blackflow: there isn't, but that would be the right place to put fast moving packages |
| 12:04.35 | ksk | askz: you can always hook into that, using a pam script (afaik). but that is pretty advanced stuff ;) |
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| 12:05.01 | ksk | I did something similar, added a hook to pam_mount; I would think there are other entrypoints in pam. |
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| 12:06.44 | blackflow | jelly: I see, so your response was theoretical and unrelated to youtube-dl, so my question stands. Why is it a package if it's constantly broken :) I ask because roundcube was expelled from Jessie because it had a secvuln when they decided to freeze, which was fixed shortly later but that didn't put it back into jessie. Just trying to understand the policy. |
| 12:07.42 | askz | ksk: thanks for the hint :) |
| 12:08.09 | blackflow | seems arbitrary, some packages are present but perma-broken, some are expelled because they had a vuln at that moment, and some remain vulnerable for months. |
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| 12:10.04 | jelly | blackflow: coke is right in this regard -- someone had to do the work |
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| 12:10.26 | jelly | if there's none, best not keep vulnerable crap in the distro |
| 12:10.44 | vehicle | about npm, npm is gone! |
| 12:10.56 | vehicle | how to install npm in debian? |
| 12:11.11 | jelly | ,v npm |
| 12:11.12 | judd | Package: npm on amd64 -- sid: 1.4.21+ds-2; jessie: 1.4.21+ds-2 |
| 12:11.27 | jelly | vehicle: gone from where? |
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| 12:11.48 | jelly | dpkg, why is npm not in testing |
| 12:11.48 | dpkg | npm is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=npm |
| 12:11.53 | vehicle | stretch |
| 12:12.10 | vehicle | it was, but i updated repos cache |
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| 12:27.37 | askz | ksk: In fact I thought also about a write protected .bashrc that would execute the docker run if a shell is spawned |
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| 12:44.08 | BluesKaj | Hey folks |
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| 12:52.11 | vehicle | hey |
| 12:52.23 | vehicle | do you know where npm gone? |
| 12:54.22 | tw | vehicle: jelly told you what happened; maintainer recommended it be dropped for being old and busted (though suggested he'd like it to appear in backports maybe) |
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| 12:55.41 | vehicle | oh sorry, didnt notice in these quit/join garbage |
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| 12:56.27 | dka | Hi |
| 12:56.39 | dka | I need advice for configuring the swap memory for a host that will run docker container :) |
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| 12:57.08 | vehicle | so npm dropped :( |
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| 13:03.16 | tw | dka: docker doesn't change your swap requirements as it is paravirtualization; configure your swap to your memory requirements. |
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| 13:05.18 | blackflow | docker paravirt? eh? |
| 13:05.45 | dka | tw I am starting with system administration. I have configured a host so it install a docker container with mesos/marathon/consul/haproxy and join my network. I haven't configured much and I now run in swap issue |
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| 13:06.03 | dka | I am running some workload and I am always at 921/1024 MB swap used |
| 13:06.08 | blackflow | it's just a delivery mechanism that exploits cgroups and namespaces to create isolated "os level virtualized" environments. zero thing to do with hardware or paravirtualization |
| 13:06.10 | petn-randall | It's more containerization, is it not? IIRC root in a container gives you root on the "host" system. |
| 13:06.18 | dka | The only limitation I put on each container is RAM and CPU through mesos |
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| 13:07.56 | tw | yes, I used the word, there's no kernel separation at all, so not PV. |
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| 13:09.46 | tw | *wrong word |
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| 13:11.03 | tw | dka: you can make additional swap files as needed until you find a mix that works with your workload. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/swap#Swap_file_creation |
| 13:13.38 | dka | tw, I rather find a long term solution for my host |
| 13:13.41 | dka | I was using 1GB of swap |
| 13:13.45 | dka | for 32GB of ram |
| 13:13.56 | dka | I am thinking of using 50GB of swap |
| 13:13.58 | petn-randall | dka: Which is fine, I guess. |
| 13:14.11 | petn-randall | dka: Do you even have that much memory you want to swap out? |
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| 13:14.31 | dka | On this documentation https://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/swap they say you should use RAM*1.5 for determining the swap size |
| 13:14.40 | dka | in my case would be 32*1.5 = 48GB |
| 13:14.54 | tw | dka: I was presenting a progressive solution. Once you discover what your workload uses, you can reallocate your partitions such that your swap partition is the correct size for your workload. |
| 13:15.08 | dka | petn-randall, services can have workload, for example, it can be a jenkins/gitlab/mailserver/ldap/nodejsapp/.... container, |
| 13:15.30 | dka | Ok |
| 13:15.32 | petn-randall | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:15.45 | jelly | dka: that's VERY outdated. Use as little swap as you actually need. |
| 13:16.04 | dka | So I have only 1 host available I can reinstall. I will increase the swap size and move each application one by one and see how it react. But I am not sure how I can monitor the evolution and imprive the performance |
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| 13:16.22 | jelly | Unless your workload is very particular or very leaky, you won't need more than 2GB in any case |
| 13:16.23 | tw | dka: If you have dynamic workloads that you can't predetermine, you should tune your container allocation to reduce usage on that node until you're under the resource limits there. |
| 13:16.31 | petn-randall | If you're swapping out GBs of RAM onto platter, your system will take a huge performance hit to the point you don't even know if it's still running. |
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| 13:17.10 | jelly | 1GB is a good value as well. |
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| 13:17.25 | dka | petn-randall, fair enough. So I will just put 2GB of swap. I though mesos was taking care of docker containers limitation and I am pretty sure it does |
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| 13:18.30 | jelly | dka: if your apps don't actually use that much memory, and it's just the kernel's aggressive cache use that puts things to swap, you can stop that by setting vm.swappiness sysctl to 1 |
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| 13:18.44 | dka | so why do you have such a swap usage ? https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/1866564/25530255/dcac7ff6-2c4f-11e7-9f70-3f4065034d7e.png |
| 13:19.02 | tw | jelly: I usually use somewhere between 10-30 GB on medium sized systems here due to tmpfs. There's a lot of little things that play into your vmm situation. |
| 13:19.37 | dka | tw 10-30GB of swap ? |
| 13:19.53 | tw | dka: It depends on your workload. You need to figure out what you need and allocate enough. |
| 13:19.59 | tw | What's good for me may not be right for you. |
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| 13:20.25 | jelly | tw: that may or may not be sane, depending on whether your tmpfs are used as shared memory backend or as an actual filesystem |
| 13:20.42 | dka | tw i agree and I will take my disposition but 10-30GB is by far higher than 2GB |
| 13:21.31 | jelly | tw: I guess it may make sense if you're doing something that generates huge amounts of disposable files, like constant rebuilds of software in a CI setup |
| 13:21.35 | tw | jelly: it's probably not; lots of big temporaries get allocated and destroyed very quickly, but it's not something that is going to change any time soon. |
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| 13:21.59 | jelly | tw: they can get allocated and destroyed quickly even on a normal fs |
| 13:22.43 | jelly | kernel puts things into vfs first anyway, and if a file gets deleted soon, writes to backend are cancelled |
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| 13:24.06 | tw | While that's true, you're still going to get it trying to push things to backing storage and these files don't have ACID requirements. |
| 13:24.50 | tw | Regardless, this config is weird and I generally agree that you should avoid swap as much as possible. |
| 13:25.49 | jelly | dka: several possible reasons: one is default value of vm.swappiness (= 60); another, maybe some process in the past generated memory pressure, and what you see is fallout from that |
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| 13:26.36 | jelly | tw: writing to and from ext4 is still managed a lot better than writing and reading to swap |
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| 13:28.12 | jelly | dka: and then there's NUMA issues when you have more than one CPU socket, that can cause a system to start swapping out when _half_ the memory is filled up |
| 13:28.18 | tw | jelly: it hasn't been in my experience. We moved to this config because linux was forcing disk sync after close() or if some 3rd party process wanted O_SYNC. |
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| 13:29.02 | jelly | tw: right, the point being you know _exactly_ why you have this |
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| 13:29.45 | jelly | probably saner than wrapping production processes in eatmydata |
| 13:29.51 | jelly | ,i eatmydata |
| 13:29.52 | judd | Package eatmydata (utils, optional) in jessie/amd64: Library and utilities designed to disable fsync and friends. Version: 82-6; Size: 11.9k; Installed: 49k; Homepage: https://launchpad.net/libeatmydata |
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| 13:38.15 | Fuj1M4s | NickServ identify Fuj1m4s !Histranho!@# |
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| 13:38.25 | tw | jelly: and I take your point; I can't say a solution I use for a specific purpose is correct for sizing others. Generally though, I've found that it's easiest to hotfix the problem first by allocating more, and subsequently tune the system to reduce those kinds of problems. |
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| 13:41.36 | BluesKaj | Fuj1M4s,use the server textbox for your nickserv ID |
| 13:42.13 | BluesKaj | you might wnat to change your password now |
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| 13:43.14 | dka | jelly, Can i know more about NUMA? |
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| 13:43.49 | Fuj1M4s | yeah.. |
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| 13:45.25 | dka | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:45.25 | dka | 60 |
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| 13:47.19 | theYellowRacer | ok, to write files to a usb, I have to have root? |
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| 13:49.59 | dontknow | theYellowRacer, if you can't write to the usb, you need to change its permission |
| 13:50.12 | theYellowRacer | is that an fstab thing dontknow |
| 13:50.39 | dontknow | theYellowRacer, no. what file system is usb drive? |
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| 13:50.47 | theYellowRacer | fat32 |
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| 13:51.04 | dontknow | ok sorry i don2t know then |
| 13:51.19 | GhostMessiah | yello |
| 13:51.28 | theYellowRacer | thanks for your help |
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| 13:53.32 | dka | I have tried to reduce the vm.swapppiness = 10, then I did a swapoff -a and then swapon -a as root . During this operation, the swap got cleared and restarted. I still have a hudge amount of swap use and now my CPU or using almost all their resources |
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| 13:54.32 | dka | I believe sysctl vm.swappiness=10 didn't change anything. jelly any idea why ? |
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| 13:54.53 | dontknow | theYellowRacer, check this out https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fstab#Writing_to_FAT32_as_Normal_User |
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| 13:55.24 | dka | according to https://askubuntu.com/questions/103915/how-do-i-configure-swappiness , it should not use the swap until I have used the 32GB of memory. |
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| 13:56.32 | tw | dka: check `free -m`, you might actually be using all of it. |
| 13:57.20 | dka | dka. it says Mem: total 31G, used 21G, free 10G, shared 120M, buffers 563M, cached 11G |
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| 14:00.38 | dka | tw what should I do |
| 14:00.53 | dka | i need an advice to take the right decision I can't leave it like this |
| 14:01.37 | sypher | dka: How much swap is being used? |
| 14:02.05 | dka | right now 481/1024MB |
| 14:02.19 | sypher | dka: And what is this affecting? |
| 14:02.45 | dka | in what way ? |
| 14:03.03 | dka | (what<->this) |
| 14:03.17 | sypher | dka: What problem are you trying to solve by modifying the swappiness value? |
| 14:04.09 | dka | I had my IaaS swap indicator in red. I had some container crashing and restarting due to swap limit. I was 921/1024MB. I have the feeling that changing vm.swapinness from 60 to 10 reduce the consumption to half |
| 14:04.33 | dka | but I am not sure. I wan't to be able to run containers without swap issue. I am running some services likes jenkins/gitlab |
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| 14:04.48 | sypher | dka: How much disk do you have available? |
| 14:04.50 | dka | I have 32GB and 8CORE. i don't wan't to have any kind of limitation on how I should split this on each host (for now). |
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| 14:05.07 | dka | I have 1.8TB of disk space |
| 14:05.14 | SuperSeriousCat | free -h to get sensible numbers :P |
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| 14:05.31 | sypher | dka: Then it would seem to me that the easiest solution would be to simply allocate more swap space. |
| 14:06.12 | dka | Ok. but what value ? apparently putting 32GB is stupid, the disk will be use for swapping different program and will slow down everything |
| 14:06.22 | dka | I am considering increasing it to 4GB |
| 14:06.37 | sypher | dka: Even 4GB is less than is generally recommended for a system with that much RAM. |
| 14:06.41 | petn-randall | dka: I doubt the problem you're seeing has much to do with swap. |
| 14:06.42 | dka | but will this be too much or opposite high enough |
| 14:07.10 | dka | petn-randall, can you please share your opinion ? |
| 14:07.16 | dka | :) |
| 14:07.29 | BluesKaj | most systems with more than 8GB Ram will seldom if ever need a swap |
| 14:07.30 | petn-randall | dka: I thought we already discussed this half an hour ago? |
| 14:07.46 | petn-randall | BluesKaj: That doesn't hold IMHO. Especially for servers. |
| 14:08.12 | qman__ | I generally run swapless unless I have a specific reason for it |
| 14:08.17 | SuperSeriousCat | sysctl swap set gets reset after a reboot. Just a FYI |
| 14:08.19 | dka | petn-randall, I didn't really get the details |
| 14:08.49 | petn-randall | dka: If you're hitting OOM conditions you need more RAM. Adding swap won't fix the issue since you can't swap out running applications/containers without a *huge* performance impact. And by huge I mean a factor of 10,000x slower. |
| 14:08.50 | dka | You told me 32GB is high enough, some other tell me it's too high |
| 14:08.53 | BluesKaj | petn-randall, how many ordinary users have servers |
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| 14:09.14 | petn-randall | BluesKaj: Read the backlog, this user does. |
| 14:09.21 | dka | petn-randall, Ok. I agree. but what would you recommend me as a solution? |
| 14:09.22 | sypher | has several. |
| 14:09.36 | petn-randall | dka: Get more RAM? Or run less containers. |
| 14:09.39 | SuperSeriousCat | is an ordinary user and got a server |
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| 14:09.46 | dka | 32GB of ram is not enough ? |
| 14:09.57 | sypher | dka: You have free memory, but you're hitting swap limit, right? |
| 14:10.02 | petn-randall | dka: If you're hitting OOM conditions (you said that earlier), then yes. |
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| 14:10.31 | BluesKaj | SuperSeriousCat, then you're not an ordinary user :-) |
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| 14:10.45 | dka | sypher I have memory free and I am hitting swap limit right |
| 14:10.50 | sypher | The No True Scotsman fallacy if ever I've heard. |
| 14:10.53 | dka | petemc, define OOM ? |
| 14:11.01 | petn-randall | !oom |
| 14:11.02 | dpkg | what a woc says. Out Of Memory, or http://lwn.net/Articles/104185/ |
| 14:12.07 | dka | <3 the definition |
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| 14:13.06 | dka | petn-randall, how do you explain that I am using only 10GB out of 32GB of ram and I am at 50% of my swap ? |
| 14:13.16 | petn-randall | dka: You said "I had some container crashing and restarting due to swap limit." Which error messages made you come to this assumption? |
| 14:13.25 | dka | I think this is only because of the small amount of space, not the memory left, if I may ask again I am not clear on that part |
| 14:13.49 | dka | petn-randall, my IaaS provider help me do the diagnostic . it's an ovh technician |
| 14:14.00 | sypher | hears OVH and runs far, far away. |
| 14:14.10 | dka | :S |
| 14:14.23 | SuperSeriousCat | Set a swappiness of 5% in the file(no command unless you echo change it) and reboot |
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| 14:14.39 | SuperSeriousCat | Bet a beer it will stay low |
| 14:15.05 | jelly | it's not really a percentage. |
| 14:15.25 | jelly | !swappiness |
| 14:15.25 | dpkg | A number of Linux kernel developers debated "swappiness" - exploring when an application should or should not be swapped out, versus reclaiming memory from the cache. http://kerneltrap.org/node/3000 http://kerneltrap.org/node/3202 http://kerneltrap.org/node/3660 |
| 14:15.30 | petn-randall | dka: Unused processes may be swapped out, then the kernel will use the free memory as cache. Running containers do not fall in this category, though. |
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| 14:15.46 | jelly | hum, that's not what I expected |
| 14:15.57 | ksk | imho you dont need to tune the swappniness in like >=99% of usecases. |
| 14:16.12 | ksk | its actually not bad to have pages swapped out.. |
| 14:16.28 | petn-randall | dka: In 99% of the use cases fiddling around with swap and the various kernel parameters causes more harm than good. So I think it's in order to show the actual data for us to evaluate the situation. |
| 14:16.33 | petn-randall | ksk: indeed :) |
| 14:16.41 | ksk | :) |
| 14:16.52 | sypher | Anecdotally, I don't think I've EVER seen a case where modifying the swappiness value actually helped anything. |
| 14:16.53 | petn-randall | Even had the same percentage, haha :) |
| 14:17.01 | blackflow | if anything ,set it higher. higher swappiness will move out unused pages quicker. lower swappiness might seem better I/O wise, but in case of increased memory pressure, it's gonna storm so hard and abruptly. you almost always want it to ease in and out instead of storm. |
| 14:17.08 | johnkeates | swappiness==happiness |
| 14:17.15 | jelly | petn-randall: they did show a top screenshot showing 24GB completely free (not even cache/buffers) |
| 14:17.16 | johnkeates | dont ruin it or you'll have a bad day... |
| 14:17.16 | blackflow | sypher: you obvs. don't run gitlab :) |
| 14:17.20 | johnkeates | I run gitlab |
| 14:17.35 | sypher | blackflow: Correct. Not a workload I have experience with. |
| 14:18.04 | dka | I have just restarted my host with "vm.swapiness = 5", I will see how it will come back. |
| 14:18.11 | blackflow | johnkeates: nice. so that thing eats up to 2GB of RAM and then plateaus there. with higer swappiness I've manged to keep it away from 2 GB, and reboot "only" weekly. |
| 14:18.15 | dka | I still need to decide if I reinstall the system with more than 1GB of swap size |
| 14:18.29 | blackflow | johnkeates: then I upgraded the server to 4GB RAM and found out there's a plateau. |
| 14:18.44 | petn-randall | dka: Use LVM, then you don't have to care about reinstalling. If you need more swap, you just add more to the partition. |
| 14:18.46 | blackflow | thing is, the docs say 1GB is okay if you have only a few users (and I do). pure lies :) |
| 14:19.02 | johnkeates | i don't seem to have that specific issue with gitlab |
| 14:19.17 | johnkeates | I run it at 8GB and it's somewhere between 5 and 7 gb depending on usage |
| 14:19.32 | blackflow | johnkeates: yeah because it wants to reach 2GB and staay there |
| 14:19.42 | blackflow | if you have 8GB, you probably don't see it |
| 14:19.43 | johnkeates | last reboot was 17 days ago for a kernel update |
| 14:19.58 | blackflow | I put it on a 2GB server for just the three users I have |
| 14:20.28 | blackflow | turns out it really needs 2GB not total RAM, but RAM for itself, so you need moar than 2 if you want to run it even with single user. |
| 14:20.37 | johnkeates | that is correct |
| 14:20.44 | johnkeates | it is intended to service at least 10 concurrent users |
| 14:20.52 | johnkeates | anything below that is somewhat out-of-spec |
| 14:20.57 | blackflow | but anyway. swappiness has helped page out unused stuff so it wouldn't reach 2GB |
| 14:21.13 | johnkeates | you can also tweak it in gitlab.rb |
| 14:21.16 | blackflow | I keep it at 80 on all my servers. |
| 14:21.18 | jelly | dka: does everything work? |
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| 14:22.19 | blackflow | johnkeates: the question is, why does gitlab want to reserve 2GB of RAM if most of it is unused pages that can be safely swapped out. |
| 14:22.30 | dka | jelly, I am waiting for all the services to get back so I can tell |
| 14:22.45 | johnkeates | because of fast access and caches |
| 14:23.01 | johnkeates | in the code (and in ruby) a lot of memory is mapped/allocated without being used |
| 14:23.07 | dka | it's mesos, so the slave got disconnected and all the services are starting again by them self. Very impressive to see that. |
| 14:23.10 | dka | :D |
| 14:23.14 | johnkeates | so that when a request comes in, it can directly use it, save a few ms |
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| 14:23.28 | blackflow | johnkeates: the part I don't understand is why does it do "manually" instead of leaving to OS caches? like postgres does (and quite successfully) |
| 14:23.41 | johnkeates | because it's a managed language |
| 14:23.50 | blackflow | so ruby's doing that? |
| 14:23.55 | johnkeates | yeah, mostly |
| 14:23.57 | blackflow | I see |
| 14:24.00 | johnkeates | it's not that special really :) |
| 14:24.07 | johnkeates | Java does it, C# does it etc |
| 14:24.15 | blackflow | well now that I found there's a 2GB plateau, no it's not, I just upgraded the VM to 4GB :) |
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| 14:24.54 | johnkeates | it also tries to allocate what it thinks it's gonna need + some more |
| 14:25.02 | johnkeates | and then that keeps growing |
| 14:25.05 | blackflow | johnkeates: yeah but I guess you didn't understand what I was asking. which was why would gitlab allocate that memory manually instead of relying on OS to mmap |
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| 14:25.21 | dka | So far I have 0/1021 MB of swap used |
| 14:25.24 | dka | :D |
| 14:25.28 | dka | but not everything up |
| 14:25.31 | blackflow | python does that too, if you explicitly reserve space through it, it won't release it back to the OS, but it'll reuse "internally" |
| 14:26.08 | blackflow | so the question is, why reserve anything for caches, just leave the OS do it |
| 14:26.47 | dka | can I leave it like this ? |
| 14:26.58 | dka | is my issue solved ? |
| 14:27.02 | dka | I can't believe it's only this |
| 14:27.09 | dka | i canceled my weekend for this |
| 14:28.04 | blackflow | dka: until it happens again. the key is to find out what caused the swapstorm. reducing swappiness is NEVER a solution to impending memory pressure situation. |
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| 14:29.52 | dka | I had my swap that jumped to 921MB for 30 sec and got back to 0 :/ |
| 14:30.20 | MsLisa | trying to build a program on my NAS that handles security cameras. when i do dpkg-checkbuilddeps it says Unmet build dependencies: libgnutls-openssl-dev. libgnutls-openssl-dev is part of libgnutls28-dev in sid (i'm running wheezy) and if i install it it uninstalls libcurl4-gnutls-dev which is also a dependancy. |
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| 14:35.23 | petn-randall | dka: Do you see any OOM logs anywhere, though? |
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| 14:37.08 | dka | petn-randall, not really. I just saw the consequence, I have tried when it happened to check the /var/log/syslog but I didn't found anything. The only thing I was seeing is my container refusing to start and my host getting crazy, lost networking, etc.. I had to reboot it from the IaaS website and then I checked the log without seing anything. I thought it was all docker |
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| 14:38.08 | petn-randall | dka: Increased swap usage is *not* the consequence of a OOM. And you still haven't showed any of those logs. |
| 14:38.20 | petn-randall | dka: Please share them to http://paste.debian.net |
| 14:39.34 | petn-randall | I'm guessing the issues you saw are unrelated to memory usage/swap, especially when the there was 24 GB of RAM unused. |
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| 14:56.07 | dka | petn-randall, I haven't found any log as I said. |
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| 15:02.11 | dresi | exit |
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| 15:02.22 | dresi | ups :D |
| 15:03.58 | petn-randall | dka: Then, quite frankly, we're wasting our time on hypotheticals. How did you come to the conclusion in the first place without any logs? |
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| 15:04.40 | dka | it's the monitoring of ovh that showed red indicator for the swap use |
| 15:04.45 | dka | then they redirect me to the htop command |
| 15:05.03 | dka | I just saw what they told me about the swap, , 95% of constant usage |
| 15:05.07 | dka | then I came here to ask questions |
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| 15:06.32 | saalaa | I still don't understand why swap is considered good defaults on modern systems |
| 15:06.43 | saalaa | especially when the kernel handles swap as it does nowadays |
| 15:06.46 | johnkeates | it's because of legacy expectations |
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| 15:07.01 | johnkeates | break with legacy = make people sad |
| 15:07.01 | saalaa | yes and no |
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| 15:07.07 | johnkeates | so they pay with efficiency instead |
| 15:07.15 | saalaa | swap meant processes wouldn't go down |
| 15:07.22 | saalaa | you could maintain some level of service |
| 15:07.49 | saalaa | on today's kernel, your system is so busy when it's swapping that it's almost impossible to do anything useful |
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| 15:09.24 | saalaa | anways, as far as I'm concerned, I disable swap entirely on my systems |
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| 15:09.54 | johnkeates | I don't |
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| 15:11.26 | bu5hm4n | hello! i have found out that 'system-login' is not available on a debian system, what is the equivalent ? |
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| 15:17.37 | ksk | bu5hm4n: what is a system-login? |
| 15:18.10 | bu5hm4n | ksk, sorry - i should have written that. A pam file that can be imported |
| 15:18.27 | bu5hm4n | its available on fedora and arch and i dont find it on debian |
| 15:19.12 | ksk | could you link a fedora project page? I dont really get what that would do, and Im not able to google it. |
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| 15:19.51 | ksk | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PAM mentions it. mhm |
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| 15:20.15 | bu5hm4n | its a pam file - you can include it so your pam file does the same on session / auth as the rest of the system :) |
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| 15:28.08 | rfleming | Greetings! |
| 15:28.40 | rfleming | How do I go about changing the mount options for gvfsd-fuse located in /var/run/user/$UID/gvfs? |
| 15:28.47 | rfleming | I would like to add the option allow_root |
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| 15:41.46 | yuriescl | Where do I ask for someone to package a program and upload it to the Debian Archive for me? |
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| 15:44.45 | dondelelcaro | yuriescl: you can file a RFP (request for packaging) using reportbug |
| 15:45.08 | yuriescl | dondelelcaro: thanks |
| 15:45.22 | dondelelcaro | yuriescl: though often, the best way to have something packaged is to package it yourself, and ask for a mentor to upload it to the archive for you |
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| 15:45.31 | dondelelcaro | (and then you can maintain it yourself, too) |
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| 16:03.06 | NoCode | Get this. This framework I installed, it allows you to put raw SVG data in the layout. So I downloaded a SVG debian badge to put on it. "cat image.svg" brings up the SVG data/ metadata in the file. Was made in Adobe Illustrator. :D </stops being a weirdo> |
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| 16:05.32 | dondelelcaro | NoCode: yeah, those probably should get stripped out |
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| 16:05.50 | dondelelcaro | https://www.debian.org/logos/openlogo.svg |
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| 16:10.56 | GhostMessiah | jaj |
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| 16:25.50 | GhostMessiah | entelum para |
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| 16:26.20 | Violinist | when is stretch coming out |
| 16:27.24 | sypher | !wwsr |
| 16:27.25 | dpkg | Well... it's starting to get distinctly chilly... Debian 9 "Stretch" will probably release in mid-2017. It will release sooner if you help fix bugs in stretch and sid... take that as a challenge. Ask me about <stretch freeze>, <how-can-i-help> https://udd.debian.org/bugs/ https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ |
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| 16:29.23 | Violinist | yeah dont rush it |
| 16:29.43 | Violinist | im still using wheezy lel |
| 16:29.54 | GhostMessiah | same here |
| 16:30.00 | Violinist | and prety stoked |
| 16:30.17 | Violinist | o/ GhostMessiah |
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| 16:37.46 | sasukeskapa | Hello, I have a problem with cifs / samba connections. After 10-30 minutes of idle time they disconnect and spam my NAS with most likely connection messages. If I run an ls on them, the whole computer hangs for a few seconds and the problem goes away. (I can't find error messages anywhere about it either.) |
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| 16:38.24 | sasukeskapa | If I'm asking at the wrong place, I'm sorry. |
| 16:38.44 | nkuttler | sasukeskapa: disks spinning down? |
| 16:38.45 | Violinist | any1 here can help w docker |
| 16:38.52 | nkuttler | !anyone |
| 16:38.53 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
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| 16:39.17 | Violinist | dpkg where are your manners |
| 16:39.18 | dpkg | Violinist: what are you talking about? |
| 16:39.33 | Violinist | and/or brain |
| 16:39.35 | mtn | heh |
| 16:39.51 | mtn | Violinist: good way to not get helped |
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| 16:41.09 | sasukeskapa | The disk are running constantly and are in a different machine. (It's a FreeNAS box I'm connecting to, from a Debian machine and the Debian Machine hangs.) |
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| 16:42.56 | sasukeskapa | nkuttler: The disk are running constantly and are in a different machine. (It's a FreeNAS box I'm connecting to, from a Debian machine and the Debian Machine hangs.) |
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| 16:47.03 | nkuttler | sasukeskapa: well, what you describe sounds like what would happen when a disk in the nas spins down |
| 16:47.20 | nkuttler | if it's not that i'm out of ideas |
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| 16:48.26 | sasukeskapa | I'm connected to the same server from my desktop too and it works fine from there. |
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| 16:48.58 | sasukeskapa | (I have Ubuntu 16.04 on it.) |
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| 16:50.00 | Andocromn | I am trying to disable a systemd service, however it continues to run. when i run systemctl is-enabled the output says "static" |
| 16:50.05 | nkuttler | sasukeskapa: then it's probably time to turn up log levels on clients + server |
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| 16:51.20 | sasukeskapa | I tried that, but it didn't allow me even if I was root. |
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| 16:54.16 | sasukeskapa | I tried again and it let me this time. I must have messed up something last time. |
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| 16:55.23 | sasukeskapa | nkuttler: I'll try debugging it once it shows up again. Thank's for the help. |
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| 16:55.53 | Violinist | umm here is a simple one |
| 16:56.07 | Violinist | where would i place cron files that are flat |
| 16:56.42 | Violinist | like a preset to then do cat file | cron - |
| 16:57.14 | jhutchins_wk | sasukeskapa: Be aware that verbose logging places a heavy load on a samba server, be sure to turn it back off when you're done troubleshooting. |
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| 16:57.32 | Violinist | oh no samba lol |
| 16:57.35 | Violinist | so slow |
| 16:57.53 | jhutchins_wk | Violinist: Not if you know what you're doing. |
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| 16:58.31 | jhutchins_wk | Violinist: You may want to read the man pages for cron and crontab, I'm not sure you understand how they work. |
| 16:58.42 | sasukeskapa | jhutchins_wk: ok, i'll keep that in mind, thank's. |
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| 16:59.18 | readytogo | my top just showed this: |
| 16:59.21 | readytogo | load average: 282.96, 108.99, 42.42 |
| 16:59.25 | Violinist | ok well where is the crontab file live? |
| 16:59.26 | readytogo | how can it be ? |
| 16:59.42 | readytogo | I mean 282, anyone ever saw something like that ? |
| 17:00.24 | JPT | readytogo: The load average is basically the number of processes in the run queue. So you might have a lot of processes running, doing something. |
| 17:00.37 | JPT | readytogo: Maybe someone is playing with a fork bomb in a limited environment. |
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| 17:01.52 | readytogo | I run "tail /dev/zero" |
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| 17:02.02 | readytogo | is it because of memory swapping ? |
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| 17:02.42 | readytogo | its 3.16.36 kernel |
| 17:02.49 | JPT | readytogo: tail /dev/zero should be just one process, not 280 or so :D |
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| 17:04.14 | readytogo | its Debian GNU/Linux 8 |
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| 17:06.31 | JPT | god damn it |
| 17:06.35 | JPT | DO NOT RUN tail /dev/zero |
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| 17:06.53 | JPT | Had to reboot due to the swapping rendering my system unusable |
| 17:07.35 | JPT | readytogo: Why would you even run that command? |
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| 17:10.01 | Violinist | dont just run random comands |
| 17:10.12 | Violinist | u can set off nuclear blast |
| 17:12.01 | JPT | I was sure that this one could not do any harm. I was almost right. |
| 17:12.07 | JPT | I just had to reboot. |
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| 17:13.05 | JPT | Apparently, i don't like to think when curious about stuff. Lesson learned once again. |
| 17:13.31 | Violinist | no thats the right approach |
| 17:13.42 | Violinist | thinking doesnt teach you anything |
| 17:14.59 | JPT | Well, at least i had some sorts of expectations. I just didn't expect tail to eat my whole RAM. |
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| 17:16.36 | jelly | JPT: if you give your system a lower amount of swap, say, not more than 1-2GB total, it gets filled in quickly in situations like these and kernel's OOM killer is triggered faster |
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| 17:17.29 | jelly | what would make more sense is memory limits on processes started from interactive user sessions |
| 17:17.35 | JPT | Well, when i replaced my old drive, i allocated 16G of swap. |
| 17:18.44 | jelly | wasn't the greatest move, that |
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| 17:18.48 | JPT | So ... systemd is not taking care of limiting memory by default, but it enforces a process limit on user slices to avoid fork bombs taking the system down. :| |
| 17:19.14 | jelly | file a wishlist bug report |
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| 17:20.38 | JPT | I'm on Arch, so i can't be certain about how it will play out on Debian. At least i learned something new today. :) |
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| 17:31.22 | jelly | !load average |
| 17:31.22 | dpkg | [load average] the number of processes that are either in a "runnable" (waiting for CPU) or uninterruptable state, averaged over time. It's like the number of people in line at the checkout. It's possible to have a high load average with low CPU utilization if systems are waiting for other resources, e.g. I/O, network socket responses. |
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| 17:32.50 | sasukeskapa | I turned the log level up and it still doesn't generate logs, just disconnects. |
| 17:34.51 | sasukeskapa | The only info I can gather is from: "cat /proc/fs/cifs/DebugData" |
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| 17:35.50 | sasukeskapa | "Number of credits: 49 |
| 17:35.51 | sasukeskapa | 2) Name: 192.168.1.53 Domain: WORKGROUP Uses: 1 OS: Windows 6.1 |
| 17:35.51 | sasukeskapa | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:35.51 | sasukeskapa | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:35.51 | sasukeskapa | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:50.45 | jelly | dpkg, flw78 is <reply><readytogo> load average: 282.96, 108.99, 42.42 <readytogo> how can it be ? <readytogo> I mean 282, anyone ever saw something like that ? <readytogo> I run "tail /dev/zero" |
| 17:50.45 | dpkg | jelly: okay |
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| 17:51.39 | jelly | readytogo: soon, your experience will be immortalized |
| 17:52.14 | jelly | !famous last words |
| 17:52.14 | dpkg | <chpUke> Well, I have everything including experimental in my sources.list. |
| 17:52.16 | greycat | Did he run it 200+ times in parallel? |
| 17:52.21 | jelly | greycat: no need to. |
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| 17:53.57 | tharkun | Is there a way of instructing diff to highlight the difference on a line? |
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| 17:55.16 | jelly | no idea, but maybe try apt-cache search color diff; there's a package literally called colordiff |
| 17:56.22 | greycat | regular diff(1) in stretch has a --color option but it does the whole line |
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| 17:57.57 | jelly | it would need to be a bit smarter than diff, which doesn't really look for differences in similar lines |
| 17:58.02 | jelly | inside* |
| 17:58.06 | greycat | *nod* |
| 17:58.38 | greycat | I didn't expect to find it, but I figured I'd check the man page just to be sure. |
| 17:58.51 | greycat | Then tested it with a simple one line change. |
| 17:59.31 | jelly | seen something similar tho, maybe on github or wikipedia |
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| 17:59.46 | demize | wdiff(1) |
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| 18:02.57 | jelly | that seems nice |
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| 18:04.30 | jelly | now postproc that with s/[-/RED/ s/{+/GREEN/ s/(-]|+})/NORMAL/ |
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| 18:13.36 | jelly | function wcdiff() {diff -u "$1" "$2"|wdiff -d | sed -r "s/\[-/$(tput bold;tput setf 4)/g; s/\{\+/$(tput bold;tput setf 2)/g; s/(-\]|\+})/$(tput sgr0)/g"} |
| 18:13.39 | jelly | hides |
| 18:14.42 | greycat | need space after { and ; before } |
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| 18:15.59 | jelly | greycat: only on inferior shells. |
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| 18:19.52 | jelly | poor dashie chokes even with those fixes |
| 18:20.19 | greycat | posix sh uses f() to define a function, not "function f" and *definitely* not "function f()" |
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| 18:21.25 | greycat | ksh supports either f() or function f, but not function f(). Also ksh has different *semantics* for f() vs. function f. |
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| 18:21.47 | jelly | I've honestly never seen function f |
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| 18:23.20 | GNU\colossus | me neither |
| 18:23.47 | greycat | The difference in ksh is subtle and involves variable scopes. It's probably beyond the scope of #debian. |
| 18:24.01 | greycat | In bash, all 3 are equivalent. |
| 18:24.05 | abff | rc uses 'fn f' |
| 18:24.38 | abff | thats the only thing I canthink of as similar |
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| 18:27.08 | greycat | well, perl has "sub foo" and tcl has "proc foo" |
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| 18:39.57 | cash | https://pastebin.com/z1gba7GM |
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| 18:47.39 | tharkun | jelly: Thanks wdiff seem to do the trick |
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| 18:58.52 | deadman36g_ | Any idea what would cause all new files I create inside SSH to belong to the group 991? That does not appear to be a group of mine in /etc/group |
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| 18:59.18 | greycat | What does "id" say when you are logged in through ssh on that system? |
| 18:59.29 | rhizome | deadman36g_: do you have group 991 on the local side? preserving permissions? |
| 18:59.30 | deadman36g_ | uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root) |
| 18:59.57 | greycat | No, when you are logged in as whoever you login as when you created these files. Also, check the directory for a setgid bit and weird group ownership. |
| 19:00.04 | rhizome | sorry, i was thinking scp. nm! |
| 19:00.12 | deadman36g_ | I always login to ssh as root |
| 19:00.17 | greycat | *shudder* |
| 19:00.19 | rhizome | u wot m8 |
| 19:00.31 | greycat | So anyway, check for setgid on the directory. |
| 19:00.59 | deadman36g_ | sorry lol I am a n00b but I use OpenMediaVault and always just thought it was easier to login as root |
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| 19:02.27 | somiaj | biggest issue is bots try to crack roots passwords on ssh servers, so just disabling root makes things for bots harder (They have to also guess a username, and if they get in they might not get root permisions) |
| 19:02.34 | deadman36g_ | 991 appears to have owner and group on nearly all my files |
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| 19:02.50 | somiaj | sounds like you have a setgid has greycat mentioned on your filesystem somewhere. |
| 19:03.10 | deadman36g_ | it is a local NAS |
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| 19:03.24 | deadman36g_ | how can I check for that? |
| 19:03.54 | somiaj | it should appear when you ls -l various directories where this is ahppening, try the top level directory that this happens. |
| 19:04.04 | somiaj | well ls -ld so you see the directory (not its contents) |
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| 19:04.26 | rhizome | fyi, #openmediavault is a channel that exists |
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| 19:05.09 | deadman36g_ | this is the output for ls -ld for /etc/ |
| 19:05.10 | deadman36g_ | drwxrwxr-x 107 911 911 4096 Apr 28 11:28 . |
| 19:05.52 | greycat | That would worry me. |
| 19:05.58 | somiaj | that would, what is ls -ld / give? |
| 19:06.16 | deadman36g_ | drwxr-xr-x 30 root root 4096 Apr 26 09:30 / |
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| 19:06.30 | rhizome | wonder if the OMV installer botched some u/g creation |
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| 19:06.39 | somiaj | how about ls -l / (is it more than etc that have those weird permisions) |
| 19:07.18 | deadman36g_ | I just noticed this issue today, have have OMV installed for a while, when I create a new file the owner is root but the group is 911. |
| 19:07.30 | greycat | if you're going to pastebin it, "ls -ld /*" would be nicer to see |
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| 19:08.05 | somiaj | wonder if someone ran chown on / for that weird uid/gid, and then directories that had setgid on it already are now giving the new id. |
| 19:08.14 | somiaj | or maybe the contents of /, since / seems fine. |
| 19:08.23 | somiaj | but either way, that is very strange. |
| 19:08.25 | MacFloss | Hi, I have configured pam to use local (first) and ldap (second) |
| 19:08.28 | MacFloss | it works fine |
| 19:08.34 | deadman36g_ | https://pastebin.com/ee83vLaW |
| 19:08.36 | MacFloss | but if the ldap server is down |
| 19:08.51 | deadman36g_ | And yes it appears in several locations not just /etc/ |
| 19:08.56 | MacFloss | and i try to connect via ssh with a local user |
| 19:09.07 | somiaj | deadman36g_: what other locations? |
| 19:09.07 | MacFloss | it is very slow (about 5 minutes) |
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| 19:09.56 | deadman36g_ | https://pastebin.com/jHUg5u6e |
| 19:10.23 | MacFloss | does somebody kwnow why if I try to login with a local user the pam system try to connect to ldap server? |
| 19:11.05 | mefistofeles | MacFloss: because you have it configured that way? |
| 19:11.14 | somiaj | deadman36g_: something strange is going on, but I'm not sure what it could be. |
| 19:11.24 | greycat | deadman36g_: I'm thinking this is not a Debian issue, but something unique to your OMV thing. |
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| 19:11.42 | deadman36g_ | Is there a way to restore to default file permissions? |
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| 19:12.14 | greycat | It seems like everything you touch gets converted to 911:911 with umask 002 (note the symlink /initrd.img.old) |
| 19:12.33 | greycat | So, making a change might not be helpful if then next time you modify something, the problem just happens all over again. |
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| 19:13.39 | greycat | But... then again, /initrd.img is *newer* than /initrd.img.old and it wasn't affected. Weird. |
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| 19:14.02 | greycat | I can't say I've ever seen anything quite like this. |
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| 19:16.37 | somiaj | yea it is very strange, unsure what the culprit could be |
| 19:17.06 | MacFloss | mefistofeles: if the first auth method is local why check the ldap server? |
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| 19:54.16 | Azrael_- | hi |
| 19:54.23 | saymoo | olah |
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| 19:54.52 | Azrael_- | i'm running xen on jessie and ran into this bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794071 i don't fully get the resolution, wasn't the patch applied to the stable branch or do i mix something up? |
| 19:54.53 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/794071 in xen-utils-common (closed): «"xenconsole: Could not open tty `': No such file or directory" during PV guest boot»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-07-30; last modified: 2015-12-13. |
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| 19:59.38 | jasonwc | at this point, i'm pretty sure Amazon knows when I wake up and go to sleep (I use an Amazon Echo to turn on/off Phillips Hue lights in my bedroom) |
| 19:59.51 | jasonwc | It can also start/stop Plex and do other stuff |
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| 20:06.45 | Azrael_- | judd: as i already stated i don't really understand the status of it |
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| 20:13.00 | Katana_Steel | well libpurple has to interoperate with other buggy protocols ;) in a sorta bug for bug pairity kind of way |
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| 20:13.52 | Katana_Steel | else it'd be of no use to anyone... |
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| 20:27.59 | blackflow | Azrael_-: judd is a bot, posted the title of bugzilla link you posted |
| 20:29.25 | greycat | Well, the status is "closed" but I don't know why. There was no clear "this is fixed in ___" or "not a bug" or anything. |
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| 20:30.53 | blackflow | maybe "I'm going to tag this bug as fixed in |
| 20:30.54 | blackflow | 4.5.0~rc3-1 which was the first subsequent revision to appear in Debian." |
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| 20:50.29 | Azrael_- | blackflow: thanks for the response. it's a pity it wasn't resolved in jessie. will have to avoid it |
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| 21:16.51 | dka | Hey |
| 21:17.21 | dka | I spoke to somebody today I can't remember it's nickname. About SWAP. Something like "slayer" from the US |
| 21:17.35 | dka | any clue? |
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| 21:21.36 | petemc | dka: from /lastlog, you spoke to saalaa, jelly and petn-randall |
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| 21:22.19 | dka | thanks, it's somebody else |
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| 21:22.39 | dka | damn, he gave me two cmd for creating a swap volume |
| 21:22.41 | petemc | you spoke to sypher |
| 21:22.47 | dka | yeap that's him |
| 21:23.16 | dka | Sorry, I am kind of noobish with hexchat. I could find the log back :) |
| 21:23.52 | petemc | i dont see anything about creating swap in what you said to him |
| 21:23.56 | petemc | but it is pretty easy anyway |
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| 21:36.04 | BlackBishop | so ... in jessie .. dont_blame_nrpe isn't supported anymore ?! :| I have to recompile ? |
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| 21:54.49 | kion | why turning off my computer from the GUI does not require SU privileges but from the terminal it has to be run as SUDO 'sudo poweroff' |
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| 22:02.10 | abff | I use `shutdown now` with -r to restart |
| 22:02.40 | abff | I don't think I need to sudo to accomplish that, but I'm also not willing to test |
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| 22:06.40 | alekz | kion: because of policykit |
| 22:07.06 | alekz | it uses systemctl |
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| 22:47.25 | JustTheDoctor | i just got a new vps, running Debian 7.3.0 x86_64 Minimal how can i make sure i have a sshd running for root access? |
| 22:47.43 | somiaj | JustTheDoctor: do you have access to the vps in any way? |
| 22:47.59 | JustTheDoctor | ugh nvm aparently now that i logged in via a html5 vnc it is working again for me. |
| 22:48.01 | somiaj | by default I think root login is disable for passwords, you may have to generate a key using your vps provider. |
| 22:48.15 | JustTheDoctor | i freaked out and came for help before investigating further, |
| 22:48.21 | somiaj | but a vps may change how things are configured from the debian defaults. |
| 22:48.28 | JustTheDoctor | i recently had ubuntu on it and i had to vnc in and install sshd on that, |
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| 22:48.47 | JustTheDoctor | I do apologize, i did freak out |
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| 22:49.07 | somiaj | no problem, we like to answer questions here. |
| 22:49.38 | JustTheDoctor | thank god, most time's i get flamed for asking 'stupid' questions. |
| 22:50.11 | JustTheDoctor | i think i'll like debians community alot more |
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| 22:50.25 | JustTheDoctor | somiaj: i did apt-get update |
| 22:50.27 | JustTheDoctor | and i got this |
| 22:50.31 | JustTheDoctor | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/DtwELUc0/ |
| 22:50.47 | JustTheDoctor | should i worry about the There is no public key available for? |
| 22:51.17 | somiaj | care to paste your /etc/apt/sources.list and the contents of anything in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ |
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| 22:51.53 | JustTheDoctor | somiaj: is there an app i can try to install that would let me pastebin a files contents easily? |
| 22:52.11 | JustTheDoctor | i'm working via ssh and for some reason i lose things when trying to copy. |
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| 22:52.41 | somiaj | !pastebinit |
| 22:52.41 | dpkg | A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>. |
| 22:52.59 | JustTheDoctor | thank you, stand by 1 moment plz |
| 22:54.06 | JustTheDoctor | http://paste.debian.net/929946/ |
| 22:54.33 | JustTheDoctor | pastebinit -i /etc/apt/sources.list gave me that |
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| 22:56.13 | somiaj | JustTheDoctor: you don't have any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d? |
| 22:56.29 | somiaj | do you have the package 'debian-archive-keyring' installed? |
| 22:56.35 | JustTheDoctor | no |
| 22:56.43 | JustTheDoctor | how do i find out? |
| 22:56.54 | somiaj | dpkg -l debian-archive-keyring |
| 22:56.54 | dpkg | ii debian-archive-keyring 1.1-2.3 ultra s3kr1t #debian package |
| 22:57.08 | somiaj | make sure there is an 'ii' in front of it |
| 22:57.09 | JustTheDoctor | can i pastebinit ? |
| 22:57.14 | somiaj | if you like |
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| 22:57.25 | JustTheDoctor | how would i pastebinit a cmd? |
| 22:57.36 | somiaj | command | pastebinit |
| 22:57.54 | JustTheDoctor | http://paste.debian.net/929947/ |
| 22:57.57 | JustTheDoctor | also, thanks so much |
| 22:58.05 | JustTheDoctor | those are 2 things i needed, file to and cmd to pastebin! |
| 22:58.40 | somiaj | ,v debian-archive-keyring |
| 22:58.42 | judd | Package: debian-archive-keyring on amd64 -- wheezy: 2014.3~deb7u1; sid: 2014.3; jessie: 2014.3; stretch: 2014.3 |
| 22:59.01 | somiaj | your keyring is outdated, most likey if you update that package it will stop yelling at you about the keys |
| 22:59.21 | JustTheDoctor | lemme try something |
| 22:59.32 | JustTheDoctor | trying apt-get upgrade |
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| 23:02.58 | JustTheDoctor | somiaj: do you think apt-get upgrade will upgrade keyring? |
| 23:03.07 | somiaj | it should |
| 23:03.22 | JustTheDoctor | ok, also does min deb install contain sudo? |
| 23:03.34 | somiaj | depends |
| 23:04.02 | somiaj | if you choose a password for root it is not installed, if you don't choose a password for root (disabling root login) it is installed and your primary user is given full sudo privlages |
| 23:04.14 | somiaj | so if it is not installed, you'll have to add your user to the sudo group to get full privlages |
| 23:04.23 | JustTheDoctor | you were correct, upgrade cured my problem |
| 23:04.46 | JustTheDoctor | i have a password on root, |
| 23:04.57 | somiaj | yea, your keyring was just outdated, unsure if the most current netinstall image for wheezy includes that update and you just happened to have an older install image. |
| 23:04.58 | JustTheDoctor | i do not want root to be allowed to even TRY to connect via ssh |
| 23:05.12 | somiaj | which is fine provided you aren't worried someone is gonna sneak in while you upgrade the keyring |
| 23:05.15 | JustTheDoctor | but i need to create a user and usermod -aG the user before i can eliminiate that |
| 23:05.38 | somiaj | JustTheDoctor: by default root password login should be disabled, root will need a key. And if you don't set up a key for root, you won't be able to login as root over ssh |
| 23:05.54 | JustTheDoctor | somiaj: i'll be back in 10 minute's have to deal with family a minute. |
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| 23:06.17 | somiaj | disabled for ssh, you can double check., grep PermitRootLogin /etc/ssh/sshd_config -- that should return it is set to no |
| 23:06.26 | somiaj | I will be gone by then, but others can answer questions |
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| 23:17.21 | JustTheDoctor | somiaj: im back, please give me a moment to check a couple things, im going to apt-get sudo create my sudo account then ask you for a guide or help with disabling root login via ssh |
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| 23:18.53 | JustTheDoctor | ok i now have a sudo user |
| 23:19.59 | JustTheDoctor | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mcZNFbvs/ |
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| 23:23.07 | JustTheDoctor | somiaj: are you still available? |
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| 23:36.40 | Delf | Trying to use notify-send. Is there a way to send a notification without having it linger? Tried the expire option but it makes no difference |
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