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| 04:13.15 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch is here: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.8 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 04:26.11 | buu | What's the simplest way to merge three disks to mount as a single volume? |
| 04:26.43 | qmr | I do not understand the question |
| 04:26.51 | qmr | you want storage to span the drives? |
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| 04:28.45 | petemc | lvm |
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| 04:31.31 | qmr | buu: ? |
| 04:31.36 | qmr | Yes, mdadm jbod or lvm |
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| 05:50.56 | vlt | buu: lvm |
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| 06:06.56 | cryocaustik | hi all - I am trying to do a debian 9 install onto my yoga 2 and I am using a usb with the cd netinstall image loaded onto it, but I am running into an issue when it tries to configure the network as it does not detect my wireless card and wants me to specify a driver |
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| 06:07.19 | Tom-_ | !firmware cd |
| 06:07.20 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>. |
| 06:07.28 | Tom-_ | probably |
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| 06:26.30 | Dreamz | is every newly installed debian require change root password? |
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| 06:32.58 | well_laid_lawn | ou are mad if you don't |
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| 06:33.09 | well_laid_lawn | s/ou/you/ |
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| 06:35.50 | Dreamz | But why system say my root password wrong often? this days I installed about 5 times. |
| 06:36.58 | well_laid_lawn | I can't answer that - if it is set and used properly it should work |
| 06:37.20 | well_laid_lawn | thousands of users have it work for them |
| 06:38.42 | mr__tea | Dreamz: you got to try harder! |
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| 06:51.21 | jmcnaught | #866206 |
| 06:51.22 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/866206 in cdimage.debian.org (closed, d-i): «cdimage.debian.org: Setting root password in d-i on live image doesn't seem to work»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-06-28; last modified: 2017-07-21. |
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| 06:57.19 | Rimo | hi |
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| 07:21.46 | cryocaustik | Tom-_ - thank you! |
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| 08:04.54 | m_ | Hello. Screenfetch anyone? |
| 08:04.55 | m_ | http://i.imgur.com/J7TTR1r.png |
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| 08:08.58 | cheapie | m_: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/2017-07-22-030748.png |
| 08:09.43 | Mick | Hi, does Debian brings /etc/syslog.conf by default ? |
| 08:11.08 | Mick | If not, where do i configure iptables logging then ? |
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| 08:13.04 | m_ | thanks cheapie |
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| 08:20.12 | kiril | hello |
| 08:20.39 | kiril | after upgrading from 8 to 9 stable debian i have issues with one server more specially with nginx. |
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| 08:20.55 | kiril | 2017/07/22 11:18:06 [alert] 29467#0: mmap(MAP_ANON|MAP_SHARED, 268435456) failed (12: Cannot allocate memory) |
| 08:21.19 | kiril | the following parameters /etc/sysctl.conf are: |
| 08:21.21 | kiril | (root@GumBall)(~)>$ cat /etc/sysctl.conf |egrep -i "kernel.shmmax|kernel.shmall" |
| 08:21.21 | kiril | kernel.shmmax = 268435456 |
| 08:21.21 | kiril | kernel.shmall = 268435456 |
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| 08:24.28 | kiril | fixed |
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| 08:48.40 | nemo_roy | ð |
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| 09:47.19 | GenitalWarts | hi |
| 09:47.35 | Peyam | Hi, My debian is using SWAP while I have 8 GB RAM. isn't it strange? |
| 09:47.44 | GenitalWarts | s |
| 09:48.24 | p0g0 | Peyam: no, that is by design, iirc. |
| 09:48.40 | Peyam | Are you sure? Never had this in my other distros |
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| 09:49.17 | p0g0 | I recall reading that, I'd have to look it up to cite the doc. |
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| 09:50.54 | p0g0 | Peyam: viz: https://wiki.debian.org/Swap |
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| 09:52.19 | rudi_s | Peyam: You can reduce the "swapiness" with sysctl, e.g. sysctl vm.swappiness=10 |
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| 09:52.49 | rudi_s | Personally I find the default swap settings too aggressive and prefer not using the swap, thus swappiness=10. |
| 09:52.51 | Peyam | yes ofcourse |
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| 09:54.11 | rudi_s | But using swap in general is not an issue. The kernel puts unused pages in the swap. |
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| 09:56.08 | Peyam | There is a an other problem |
| 09:56.32 | Peyam | the grub doesnt show Windows 7. I ran both os-prober and grub-update |
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| 09:57.49 | rudi_s | It's update-grub on Debian, but it should work if you have os-prober installed. |
| 09:58.45 | Peyam | it doent find it |
| 09:59.26 | rudi_s | Peyam: ? |
| 09:59.29 | Peyam | rudi_s, http://paste.debian.net/ |
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| 10:00.04 | Peyam | rudi_s, http://paste.ubuntu.com/25145265/ |
| 10:00.10 | rudi_s | Hm. os-prober should detect it. If it doesn't (and os-prober is installed) then update-grub won't find it either. |
| 10:00.41 | rudi_s | Is this grub1? |
| 10:00.52 | Peyam | this is the os-prober output : /dev/sdb1:Windows 7:Windows:chain |
| 10:00.57 | Peyam | yes I believe |
| 10:01.09 | rudi_s | Which Debian release is this? |
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| 10:01.31 | Peyam | 4.9.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.30-2+deb9u2 (2017-06-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 10:01.38 | Peyam | last stable one |
| 10:01.58 | rudi_s | So Jessie, replace grub-legacy with grub2 (grub-pc) and try again. |
| 10:02.11 | ST3NO | hi :) Someone installed nextcloud on debian 9? |
| 10:02.12 | Peyam | how do I do it? |
| 10:02.14 | rudi_s | Oh wait, Stretch. |
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| 10:03.10 | rudi_s | Anyway, install the grub-pc package, run grub-install your-partition here and then run update-grub. |
| 10:03.40 | Peyam | can you be more specific. what do you mean your-partition here |
| 10:03.59 | Peyam | do you mean # grub-install /dev/sda1 ? |
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| 10:04.19 | Peyam | but first #apt-get install grub-pc? |
| 10:04.58 | Peyam | yes |
| 10:05.03 | Peyam | it worked thank you :) |
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| 10:05.35 | rudi_s | np ;-) |
| 10:06.04 | rudi_s | Then uninstall grub-legacy and try a reboot. Have a USB-stick or similar ready just in case something broke. |
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| 10:06.30 | Peyam | ohh. so the risk is still there. |
| 10:06.37 | roger21 | why popularity contest is insalled when you say you don't want to use it ????? |
| 10:06.46 | roger21 | at the installatio |
| 10:06.48 | roger21 | n |
| 10:06.49 | rudi_s | A little bit, but it almost never breaks. Grub is quite reliable. |
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| 10:07.00 | Peyam | rudi_s, Package 'grub-legacy' is not installed, so not removed |
| 10:07.01 | rudi_s | roger21: It isn't. The installer's output is just confusing. |
| 10:07.20 | roger21 | hmmmmm |
| 10:07.26 | rudi_s | Peyam: Hm. I thought that was the name. |
| 10:07.38 | rudi_s | dpkg -l | grep grub and look for anything "old". |
| 10:07.38 | dpkg | ii | grep grub and look for anything "old". 3.9-2 rudi_s's private coin collection |
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| 10:07.51 | rudi_s | Thanks dpkg ;-) |
| 10:08.53 | Peyam | rudi_s, http://paste.debian.net/977605/ |
| 10:10.27 | Peyam | there is one legacy why can I remove it. When I look closely I see a 'rc' on the left og grub-legacy. |
| 10:10.37 | rudi_s | Peyam: all right. Looks like it was already removed. You can remove the remaining config files with apt-get purge grub-legacy |
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| 10:11.50 | rudi_s | (Per default Debian keeps the config file and program state (like database content or similiar) on the system when removing a package, only when you "purge" it, those parts are removed as well.) |
| 10:12.03 | Peyam | thanks again. I did a autoremove just after I install those packages you earlier mentioned |
| 10:12.34 | Peyam | Thanks |
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| 10:13.16 | rudi_s | np |
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| 10:14.10 | rudi_s | Btw. try the reboot "soon", so you know that everything works and if not you can pinpoint it to this change. |
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| 10:15.45 | lowin | Hello. I'm trying to setup openvpn on stretch. I created a /etc/openvpn/server.conf file but when I try to start the openvpn service, it exits immediately. running openvpn --config /etc/openvpn/server.conf works fine though |
| 10:15.53 | lowin | What am I doing wrong? |
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| 10:26.27 | vlt | In recent versions (of Debian or OpenVPN) it seems you need to systemctl enable something. |
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| 10:38.10 | DeadJew | Hello |
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| 10:39.23 | DeadJew | !ops i am a dead jew |
| 10:39.24 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: deadjew complains about: i am a dead jew |
| 10:39.31 | abrotman | ... |
| 10:39.44 | DeadJew | i used to be a regular jew but then i did not want to hail Hitler |
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| 10:40.27 | Peyam | Why dont I have the same font in Foxit reader as the desktop? http://i.imgur.com/1MjY8z1.png |
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| 10:41.47 | ElDiabolo | Is there an easy way to become a package maintainer of an existing seemingly orphaned package package? |
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| 10:43.01 | abrotman | ElDiabolo: which package? |
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| 10:43.17 | ElDiabolo | sa-learn-cyrus |
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| 10:44.41 | abrotman | ElDiabolo: if it's not orphaned, you could email the maintainer and ask to help |
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| 10:48.13 | ElDiabolo | abrotman, It is not in stretch and the version in sid is the same as in jessie. But there is a maintainer. |
| 10:50.27 | abrotman | I'd still email the maintainer to start |
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| 10:52.13 | m_ | Show your desktops please |
| 10:52.15 | m_ | http://imgur.com/a/Vz7od |
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| 10:53.18 | abrotman | m_: this is a support channel |
| 10:53.41 | m_ | allright, sry |
| 10:54.10 | m_ | is there any channel which is somehow specialized for something like this? |
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| 10:55.20 | Tom-_ | #debian-offtopic i suppose, though it's a much smaller crowd |
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| 11:12.03 | m_ | thank you Tom-_ |
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| 11:18.11 | assassinpinapple | !schroot |
| 11:18.11 | dpkg | schroot is an easy way of setting up a <chroot> in a way that can be treated as a session. If desired, modification to the chroot can be prevented using overlayfs or LVM snapshots, making it very convenient for building packages or simply running packages from other releases with minimal containment. See https://wiki.debian.org/Schroot and http://linuxgazette.net/150/kapil.html |
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| 11:33.08 | m_ | How can i install Latte Dock. I could not add the repository, neither install the .deb |
| 11:33.13 | m_ | https://paste.ofcode.org/Czt6PETWS5vDaLmLjp47kg |
| 11:33.32 | abrotman | m_: this isn't the Ubuntu support channel |
| 11:34.53 | m_ | I know, i don't use Ubuntu. |
| 11:35.05 | abrotman | That's a PPA for Ubuntu? |
| 11:35.08 | m_ | Installing the .deb also doesn't work: https://github.com/ubuntuvibes/Debs/blob/master/latte-dock_0.6.0-1_all.deb |
| 11:35.32 | m_ | for Ubuntu and Debian |
| 11:35.34 | m_ | https://github.com/psifidotos/Latte-Dock#ubuntudebian |
| 11:35.36 | towo` | ubuntu debs often not working on debian |
| 11:35.53 | m_ | that's a bad... |
| 11:35.55 | towo` | that's why you shouldn't try to intsll ubuntu debs |
| 11:36.05 | towo` | ubuntu is not debian |
| 11:36.13 | m_ | but look on the link |
| 11:36.27 | abrotman | but what? why doesn't it work? |
| 11:36.29 | towo` | why i should? |
| 11:37.07 | m_ | https://paste.ofcode.org/Czt6PETWS5vDaLmLjp47kg |
| 11:37.14 | abrotman | I'm sure as hell not downloading a package for another distro |
| 11:37.19 | m_ | maybe it's just for Ubuntu, dunno |
| 11:37.52 | abrotman | m_: which part of that is a problem? |
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| 11:40.39 | m_ | https://i.imgur.com/sNuFsKR.png |
| 11:40.42 | m_ | :/ |
| 11:41.23 | abrotman | well, it's a PPA for Ubuntu |
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| 11:42.28 | m_ | mmhhh, it seems so and the .deb is also for Ubuntu only, that's a shame |
| 11:43.22 | m_ | I was thinking that u can use every .deb for Ubuntu and Debian, my bad. I'm new to Debian... |
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| 11:52.23 | assassinpinapple | hello everyone. I am trying to set up an schroot for stretch (I have jessie) and everything works fine, except that when I schroot -c stretch with my user I can go on the system normal /home/user/ and do stuff. Is that an expected behaviour? I thought that under chroot I couldn't go above the defined folder. Here is my conf: http://paste.debian.net/977616/ |
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| 11:55.57 | JPT | Not sure, i don't know the project. But the wiki mentioned something about an overlay fs? |
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| 11:56.16 | JPT | Maybe try creating a file in your home directory while in schroot, then leave the schroot and check if it still exists |
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| 11:56.45 | JPT | Also, since i am not sure: Make sure your backups are fine before trying to delete stuff while in schroot. |
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| 11:57.52 | assassinpinapple | JPT, tried creating a file and exiting already, the file is still there |
| 11:58.08 | assassinpinapple | installed programs, however, are not |
| 11:58.27 | JPT | That sounds a bit weird, but perhaps the documentation will explain that |
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| 11:59.28 | assassinpinapple | JPT, thanks, I'm reading through it, still couldn't find about it but I'm now to chroot, so it may be that I don't understand something :) |
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| 12:00.49 | JPT | Schroot seems to be a bit different to chroot. |
| 12:01.11 | JPT | Real chroot moves / to the new location and there's basically no easy way to escape the new /. |
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| 12:03.43 | assassinpinapple | JPT, maybe the problem is the --preserve-environment. I'll delete that and report back, just for the fun of knowing |
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| 12:04.07 | JPT | Ah, sounds reasonable. Good luck :) |
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| 12:43.50 | assassinpinapple | hello everyone. I am trying to set up an schroot for stretch (I have jessie) and everything works fine, except that when I schroot -c stretch with my user I can go on the system normal /home/user/ and do stuff. Is that an expected behaviour? I thought that under chroot I couldn't go above the defined folder. Here is my conf: http://paste.debian.net/977616/ |
| 12:44.10 | assassinpinapple | I'm pretty sure there is something silly I'm missing |
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| 12:53.09 | assassinpinapple | I see, looks like schroot only chroots part of the filesystem, not the whole of it as I would have expected |
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| 13:01.54 | rudi_s | Hi. Can I somehow prevent systemctl restart service from restarting the service? I have a few services (like logind) which should disallow restarts. |
| 13:02.21 | rudi_s | (The reason is that a restart of logind kills the current sessions and I want to prevent me from doing that be accident when checkrestart tells me to restart service.s) |
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| 13:14.08 | dokma | I've just realized my app if failing because ext3 was not supporting preallocation so I switched to ext4. |
| 13:14.14 | dokma | Still can't get preallocation to work. |
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| 13:14.30 | dokma | Is there any way to test if my ext4 fs provides preallocation? |
| 13:14.49 | dokma | *my app is failing* |
| 13:16.50 | JPT | ext4 should support pre-allocation. What kind of errors do you get and do you use any magic flags when mounting your ext4 filesystem? |
| 13:18.31 | JPT | I just dug around - maybe this documentation might help you a bit: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/ext4.txt |
| 13:19.24 | dokma | I get "operation not supported" from fallocate in a C++ app. |
| 13:19.43 | dokma | I mount with: UUID=459d6d3c-8347-40cd-9d4d-9803b47930d1 /home/vlatko/backup ext4 defaults 0 1 |
| 13:20.07 | dokma | fallocate works from the command line |
| 13:20.23 | dokma | I've just made a 100GiB file |
| 13:22.10 | dokma | Even a TB works from the command line... |
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| 13:22.58 | JPT | If it works from command line, then the file system and mounting options are not at fault. Perhaps the standard library used or the implementation of the syscall may need some maintenance? |
| 13:23.49 | dokma | I'm taking a look at the call itself. Seems like the dev botched something. |
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| 13:24.04 | JPT | Good luck, i hope you can figure out how to fix it. :) |
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| 13:29.45 | dokma | Super funny... when I run it from gdb it works? |
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| 13:30.50 | JPT | Maybe an issue with latency of some sort? |
| 13:31.04 | JPT | I assume that gdb runs the program at a much slower pace |
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| 13:33.11 | dokma | I've rebuilt the binary and now it works... sort of |
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| 13:35.26 | BluesKaj | Hiyas all |
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| 13:37.05 | jhutchins | dokma: Sounds like there are significant differences in the environment. |
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| 13:37.27 | Mick | Hi , i am looking to install envy-ng, but can not find it in the debian repositories for Debian 6 (Squeeze).. any help ? |
| 13:38.09 | dokma | jhutchins: I've managed to get fallocate to behave now OpenCL is dragging me down. |
| 13:38.20 | abrotman | Mick: it's not in Debian at all? |
| 13:38.34 | dokma | I have to modify the source to see what OpenCL complains about. |
| 13:39.20 | Mick | abrotman: "apt-cache search envy" did was not succesful |
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| 13:40.33 | abrotman | right |
| 13:40.34 | Brigo | Mick, i can't find that package in Debian |
| 13:40.59 | Mick | Well, i could try Ubuntu repositories, but how do i verify which Ubuntu-Releases are actually based on Debian 6, and not 7, or 8 ? |
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| 13:42.28 | abrotman | it's also not in ubuntu AFAICT |
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| 13:44.36 | JK263 | #OSCP |
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| 13:45.10 | dokma | Bummer. Now it works. I hate intermittent failures. |
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| 13:50.05 | Mick | abrotman: you are wrong... http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/multiverse/e/ |
| 13:53.28 | abrotman | Mick: it's not in packages.ubuntu.com .. but yay, you found an unsupported package on a different distro! |
| 13:54.23 | Mick | Yeah !!! ... i am incombatible with Linux.. |
| 13:54.29 | Mick | is always wrong... |
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| 14:05.01 | forcerecon | morning everyone |
| 14:08.11 | Guest80385 | information regarding last update.. one item held back on the installation of nvidia drivers.. wondering if a reboot might help |
| 14:08.12 | Guest80385 | https://paste.debian.net/977641/ |
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| 14:12.27 | forcerecon_ | hey hey.. I am back.. onion decide to work |
| 14:12.27 | forcerecon_ | too bad i need to reboot |
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| 14:15.29 | Mick | Might someone find a envy*.deb package for me ? |
| 14:16.23 | BluesKaj | Mick, is the envy package for newer edgy graphics drivers |
| 14:16.28 | BluesKaj | ? |
| 14:16.41 | abrotman | Mick: it's not in Debian .. |
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| 14:17.27 | Mick | abrotman: What about Wheezy ? https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/304.131-1 |
| 14:17.58 | Mick | https://launchpad.net/envy |
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| 14:19.45 | _Strix_ | hello |
| 14:20.25 | BluesKaj | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:21.35 | forcerecon | when you get a package that will not install or is held back, should you ignore it |
| 14:21.35 | forcerecon | I guess what I am saying is will it be fixed in a new udpate or should you pass |
| 14:21.35 | forcerecon | sudo apt-get --with-new-pkgs upgrade |
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| 14:22.36 | forcerecon | reference too - https://paste.debian.net/977641/ |
| 14:22.36 | forcerecon | thanks for any and all information / advice |
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| 14:25.21 | BluesKaj | forcerecon, just ignore the vulkan being held back. it's mostly for users with more then one gpu afaik |
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| 14:30.45 | forcerecon | BluesKaj: thanks mate.. |
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| 14:46.15 | dean | Hey im thinking of getting a Lenovo Ideapad 110 15.6 Inch Celeron. Can anyone confirm If debian will run on it? Here's a link https://m.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/6789239/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7COffice,+PCs+and+phones%7C14418968/c_2/3%7Ccat_50000560%7CLaptops%7C50000564.htm |
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| 14:47.10 | dean | I'd usually spend a few days researching myself but my old laptop just died and I've only got a few minutes before the shop closes and desperately need to get some work done tonight |
| 14:47.42 | jelly | dean, if you can get your hands on one, boot a linux livecd, and save the output of "lspci -nn" you might get a decent answer |
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| 14:48.32 | dean | @jelly can't even make a live cd lol im on my phone at the moment. |
| 14:48.59 | jelly | then search for the specific model and lspci on the internets, mayb |
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| 14:54.40 | merimel | Lenovo Ideapad 110 should be fine â due to Intel HD Graphics 405 (good intel driver, not powervr garbage) |
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| 14:59.37 | dean | merimel it's Intel Celeron. Is that ok? |
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| 15:08.25 | jelly | things to worry about: whether uefi secure boot can be disabled; whether chipset is too new (but with a Q1 2016 CPU, it probably isn't) |
| 15:08.44 | jelly | whether 4GB RAM will be enough for your workload |
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| 15:10.32 | jelly | if secure boot can be disabled, debian 9 probably has a good chance of working |
| 15:11.05 | jelly | and if you want wireless to work right away, |
| 15:11.08 | jelly | !firmware images |
| 15:11.08 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>. |
| 15:11.28 | jelly | and if you want to test it a bit, |
| 15:11.31 | jelly | !firmware live |
| 15:11.31 | dpkg | Unofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 9 "Stretch" as a live OS are available at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ . See also <firmware images>. |
| 15:12.03 | dean | @jelly thanks man. I think this lenovo Is probably my best bet from what I've seen. |
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| 15:13.03 | jelly | a second hand thinkpad would be nicer but probably not in your price range, or not avialable right away |
| 15:15.03 | klys | you ppl buying thinkpads should consider this instead http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Fujitsu-T901-Tablet-Laptop-Core-i5-2-5Ghz-4GB-Windows-10-WiFi-HDMI-B-GRADE/232003349673 |
| 15:16.38 | jelly | klys, it doesn't have a trackpoint or three physical mouse buttons or a 7 row keyboard |
| 15:17.35 | dean | kyls don't think that'd really be my thing but thanks. |
| 15:17.46 | merimel | dean: well manual states this model has BIOS, you can check it in store using f12 key. and this series can come with linux preinstalled in some regions |
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| 15:29.06 | abrotman | admires jelly's hat |
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| 15:30.29 | jelly | hmph |
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| 15:31.06 | klys | dean, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-IBM-Lenovo-ThinkPad-X61-Tablet-PC-with-rare-SXGA-touch-screen-/192248470148 |
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| 15:33.51 | klys | jelly, http://www.ebay.com/itm/ThinkPad-X61-Tablet-PC-1-6GHz-4GB-RAM-500GB-Win-10-UPGRADED-docking-station-/253058302475 |
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| 15:54.04 | klys | dean, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X230-12-5in-500GB-Intel-Core-i5-2nd-Gen-2-5GHz-4GB-/192249816012 |
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| 16:09.17 | CuteAlien | Hi. Probably not common enough problem, but I'll ask anyway... anyone here who had the problem that Wacom Bamboo freezes the kernel within using it for a minute on Debian 9 (or Debian 8 with newer kernels) and fixed it? The problem keeps me from updating to new Debian currently :-( |
| 16:09.49 | CuteAlien | Reproducible with live cd's. |
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| 16:12.20 | prussian | CuteAlien: got any stack traces? |
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| 16:14.07 | CuteAlien | prussian, I can't use the system anymore - not even magic sysrq keys work. |
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| 16:14.50 | CuteAlien | prussian, there's been bugreports about that in the past for driver developer. But - it seemed to be fixed. I thought :-( |
| 16:14.57 | CuteAlien | But maybe didn't make it into Debian |
| 16:15.18 | CuteAlien | Or fix didn't work - can't tell - not deep enough into this to know, sorry. |
| 16:15.59 | prussian | do you have anything in /var/log/kern like ------------[ cut here ]------------ |
| 16:16.09 | CuteAlien | live cd... |
| 16:16.13 | prussian | usually means you had the kernel throw a stack trace for some kind of reason |
| 16:16.57 | CuteAlien | I only think it's again kernel because I tried in the past newer kernel on debian 8 and had exact same problem. But didn't debug back then. Just switched kernel back and hoped it would work with Debian 9. |
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| 16:17.52 | prussian | ya |
| 16:17.53 | CuteAlien | Can't risk trying again with kernel on my Debian 8 system. With sysrq keys not working it messed up files last time when I forced reboot :-( |
| 16:18.19 | prussian | sounds like some stupid kernel module for you drawing tablet doesn't like you. I'm not sure how that works. if it's a HID device or something special |
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| 16:18.33 | prussian | don't really know much about it |
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| 16:19.00 | prussian | best bet would be to see if it's writing the kernel panic somewhere, /var/log/kern.log is a good place to start... |
| 16:19.14 | prussian | journalctl -a might have it too. |
| 16:19.15 | CuteAlien | Yeah, me neither really... just asked in case I get lucky and someone run into it already and knows a solution. |
| 16:19.32 | CuteAlien | Yeah, but how to do that for a live-cd? When everything is frozen... |
| 16:20.03 | CuteAlien | Well - mouse still works actually - so not everything is frozen. But sysrq keys no longer work. |
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| 16:20.25 | prussian | oh. |
| 16:20.30 | prussian | only the mouse? |
| 16:20.35 | CuteAlien | yeah |
| 16:20.45 | prussian | weird. and you can't switch tty though? |
| 16:20.48 | prussian | or any keyboard input? |
| 16:20.49 | CuteAlien | nope - no keys |
| 16:21.09 | somiaj | is this in xorg or a console? |
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| 16:21.20 | CuteAlien | xorg - can't test tablet in console |
| 16:22.05 | somiaj | well it might just be xorg isn't detecting the keyboard, not that the kernel is at fault (since the mouse is working) |
| 16:22.17 | somiaj | you could also run an ssh server and see if the system is still running, and check the xorg logs |
| 16:22.20 | CuteAlien | Everything works for a while. |
| 16:22.54 | CuteAlien | Even the tablet - for around 1 minute, or a half (not always the same - but every time freezes after a while) |
| 16:23.14 | CuteAlien | When I don't plug-in the table it also works fine |
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| 16:23.18 | CuteAlien | *tablet |
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| 16:24.54 | CuteAlien | There is a bugreport on that (https://sourceforge.net/p/linuxwacom/bugs/328/) - just sounded like fixed by now. |
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| 16:25.30 | CuteAlien | (obviously I don't know if it's the exact same bug - just sounds the same) |
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| 16:26.10 | prussian | ya I found similar |
| 16:26.12 | prussian | https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/11/20/690 |
| 16:26.18 | prussian | which is weird |
| 16:26.33 | CuteAlien | Otherwise - anyone using a cheap (<100â¬) and somewhat good tablet right now with Debian9? I might just buy a new one if I knew it works. |
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| 16:27.05 | prussian | have you treid something like Fedora 26? it might have a newer kernel with the fix. |
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| 16:27.20 | CuteAlien | Ah - don't want to switch :-) |
| 16:27.53 | CuteAlien | I try installing Ubuntu on another computer right now - could try if it works there - except I got a frozen installer on that right now - lol. Not my day... |
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| 16:28.15 | CuteAlien | (complete different system - no relation - just bad luck) |
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| 16:28.30 | prussian | ya I don't know... |
| 16:28.50 | prussian | but it appears to be some kernel bug in HID. which is weird. |
| 16:29.11 | prussian | not a fatal one though. surprised your mouse even works |
| 16:29.24 | prussian | is it some PS/2 or non usb HID device? |
| 16:29.42 | CuteAlien | both USB |
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| 16:43.16 | zaturek | Hello guys! I have a nice problem. I have a laptop with rtl8723b wifi card and without ethernet card. So, currently I have win10, but I need debian. |
| 16:43.16 | zaturek | My problem is, the installer doesn't find the driver |
| 16:43.16 | zaturek | which is strange, cos it is in the list |
| 16:43.16 | zaturek | in the list I get during the install process |
| 16:43.16 | zaturek | but the installer don't let me use it. |
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| 16:45.56 | toothe | Hi all. I am trying to setup my /etc/network/interfaces file to have a static IPv6 address on my eth0 card. |
| 16:45.59 | toothe | for some reason, it isn't assigning. |
| 16:46.03 | toothe | I can't quite figure out why - no error. |
| 16:46.14 | toothe | Is there a way to paste the output and have ya'll review it? |
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| 16:50.44 | abrotman | toothe: paste.debian.net |
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| 16:52.58 | kang00 | I am facing issue in connecting with wifi |
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| 16:53.05 | kang00 | Help me to resolve |
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| 16:53.21 | kang00 | Tell me some commands which I can run in terminal |
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| 16:53.27 | kang00 | And wifi gets connected |
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| 17:00.37 | klys | kang00, wpa_supplicant (apt-get install wpasupplicant) |
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| 17:01.42 | klys | kang00, ifconfig -a; ifconfig wlan0 up 0.0.0.0; iwlist wlan0 scan | less |
| 17:02.17 | toothe | https://paste.debian.net/977668/ |
| 17:02.22 | klys | you should see your hotspot in the list if nothing is wrong |
| 17:02.23 | toothe | That is my /etc/network/interfaces file. |
| 17:02.31 | toothe | I want eth0 to have a static IPv6 address, but it doesn't get assigned on reboot. |
| 17:02.59 | klys | auto lo eth0 |
| 17:03.09 | Dagger | remove the "gateway 2001:470:7:209::1", it makes no sense |
| 17:03.38 | toothe | okay - i added that out of desperation. |
| 17:03.40 | toothe | but, let me give that a go |
| 17:03.44 | abrotman | toothe: auth eth0 |
| 17:03.51 | toothe | ? |
| 17:03.53 | abrotman | auto |
| 17:04.04 | toothe | I do not know what you are asying... |
| 17:04.09 | Dagger | a) 2001:470:7:209::1 isn't in 2001:470:8:209::, b) you presumably are the gateway for that subnet yourself |
| 17:04.10 | abrotman | you're missing "auto eth0" |
| 17:04.17 | klys | toothe, line 7 |
| 17:04.34 | abrotman | nothing wrong with line 7 |
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| 17:04.52 | toothe | yes, I am the gateway. |
| 17:04.58 | toothe | i'll comment out the gateway line. |
| 17:05.15 | toothe | okay, commented that out, rebooting. |
| 17:05.29 | kango90 | klys how can I install something when I can't connect internet |
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| 17:05.40 | abrotman | toothe: you still need the "auto eth0" |
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| 17:06.10 | kango90 | (klys) kang00, wpa_supplicant (apt-get install wpasupplicant) |
| 17:06.20 | abrotman | kango90: a USB drive? |
| 17:06.27 | toothe | just so I know, what does that mean? |
| 17:06.29 | Dagger | also, from my knowledge of how HE address their tunnels, 2001:470:8:209:: is routed to 2001:470:7:209::2, but you have 2001:470:7:dd5::2 on he-ipv6 |
| 17:06.31 | klys | kango90, if you don't have wifi then use a cable to install it or use the default desktop utility for wifi |
| 17:06.59 | toothe | yeah, I'll figure out the routing part later. |
| 17:07.09 | Dagger | if you're 2001:470:7:dd5::2 then you should be using 2001:470:8:dd5::/64 on the LAN. if you're :209: then you should be using :7:209::2/64 on the tunnel |
| 17:07.11 | toothe | I can easily get that up in a heartbeat, once I Get this stuff working. |
| 17:07.34 | toothe | rebooted, still no eth0 ipv6 address |
| 17:07.43 | Dagger | and you don't need the up/down lines, just use "gateway 2001:470:7:dd5::1" (or 209 or whichever) |
| 17:07.57 | abrotman | toothe: it will start the interface at boot time |
| 17:07.57 | Dagger | although of course none of this affects your actual problem |
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| 17:09.31 | BluesKaj | toothe, which debian? if it's jessie or stretch your ethernet is no longer named eth0, it's enp0s7 or some such |
| 17:09.55 | toothe | https://paste.debian.net/977670/ |
| 17:10.00 | toothe | this is raspberian, actually. |
| 17:10.17 | BluesKaj | ip a will show it's new name in the cli |
| 17:10.17 | toothe | and man, i hate that enp0s3 naming convention. |
| 17:10.21 | abrotman | wtf is "manual" ? |
| 17:10.32 | toothe | I don' tknow. |
| 17:10.37 | toothe | should I remove it? |
| 17:10.53 | abrotman | not remove it, try making it "static" |
| 17:10.56 | toothe | i got frustrated and googled anythign/everything I could find. |
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| 17:11.45 | kloker | If I installed libogre-dev via apt-get, how do I link it when compiling with g++? Currently using "g++ -lOgreMain -std=c++11 TutorialApplication.cpp -o test" but it gives me error "Couldnt find file OgreCamera.h". How do I find these names (for example lOgreMain)? |
| 17:12.03 | toothe | works! it was that static vs manual thing |
| 17:12.07 | toothe | thanks a lot everyone! |
| 17:12.11 | toothe | phew...that was frustrating. |
| 17:12.15 | toothe | I was on that for like 2-3 days |
| 17:12.16 | Dagger | BluesKaj: all my jessie machines use ethN. stretch machines that are upgraded from jessie should also use ethN |
| 17:12.31 | toothe | now to setup radvd to turn on at boot. |
| 17:12.35 | CuteAlien | kloker - noth finding header isn't about linking. It's about include path |
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| 17:12.39 | Dagger | the first paste had "static"... |
| 17:12.42 | BluesKaj | toothe, replae eth0 with the new name enp0s3 or whatever it is |
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| 17:12.49 | merimel | in buster ethN will be broken |
| 17:12.49 | toothe | BluesKaj: no, it actually is eth0. |
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| 17:13.02 | CuteAlien | kloker - find out where that header is - include that path with -Ithatpath |
| 17:13.08 | BluesKaj | Dagger, yup |
| 17:13.16 | abrotman | toothe: no, it was really "auto eth0" .. but manual wasn't helping |
| 17:13.17 | kloker | CuteAlien: oh ok, how do I know where these headers are located? "locate *Ogre*" didnt give me anything. |
| 17:13.30 | toothe | abrotman: ahh... |
| 17:13.50 | Dagger | (I like how you have to use phrases like "or whatever it is" when talking about predictable network interface names. doesn't sound very predictable :/) |
| 17:14.13 | abrotman | toothe: none of your local ISPs offer IPv6? |
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| 17:14.27 | kloker | CuteAlien: I think I found it, thanks!!! |
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| 17:14.30 | toothe | abrotman: no...Comcast used to, but I moved and Verizon doesn't offer it. |
| 17:14.36 | abrotman | Comcast still does |
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| 17:14.41 | toothe | abrotman: actually no, Verizon is going to offer IPv6 in 2013! |
| 17:14.48 | toothe | So I'm looking forward to them offering it 4 years ago |
| 17:14.59 | abrotman | I take that to mean, you can't get Comcast anymore. Though I've noticed TWC and Charter are rolling it out more? |
| 17:15.01 | toothe | sarcasm....and even Comcast blocked ports |
| 17:15.10 | toothe | yeah, I moved. |
| 17:15.11 | abrotman | toothe: blocked ports for what? |
| 17:15.15 | CuteAlien | kloker, ok. Otherwise - you can use locate only when database is updated (updatedb). Without that you have to use find. |
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| 17:15.28 | toothe | they block certain ports outbound or ibound, 25, 80, 443, stuff like that. |
| 17:15.32 | BluesKaj | Am I mistaken that eth0 is not valid , abrotman? or is this a non systemd OS? |
| 17:15.33 | toothe | typical. |
| 17:15.42 | kloker | CuteAlien: good to know |
| 17:15.56 | abrotman | you shouldn't be using 25 to send email. and you sohuldn't be hosting email on a dynamic IP .. but regardless, you can get those unblocked if you wask |
| 17:16.00 | abrotman | ask |
| 17:16.53 | toothe | abrotman: its the principle of it! |
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| 17:17.17 | toothe | I'm half being silly, half not. I don't really use 25 anyways. But why can't I run a webserver? |
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| 17:17.41 | toothe | well, i know their justification. I suppose it isn't bad. |
| 17:17.42 | abrotman | toothe: you can, just ask |
| 17:17.46 | toothe | it costs money. |
| 17:17.52 | abrotman | to do what? |
| 17:18.04 | toothe | as a kid, after the codered virus, I emailed my ISP's technical contacts that I got through their DNS server lol |
| 17:18.14 | toothe | and asked them to unfilter port 80. I was like 18 |
| 17:18.24 | toothe | they responded back saying they would but I ping too much. No idea what that even meant. |
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| 17:18.56 | abrotman | well, okay .. glad you got it working .. good luck |
| 17:18.57 | toothe | alright, I think it works. |
| 17:19.01 | toothe | yes, thank you very much! |
| 17:19.18 | toothe | (I was tongue-in-cheek about port 80 or 25. I would get hosting if I really cared)( |
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| 17:22.48 | toothe | awesome, chromebook has an IPv6 address |
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| 17:35.13 | BluesKaj | hm I ask a legit question to a member here, but I'm ignored, no response FU or go to hell or anything. Some users demand respect due to their rank here, but don't feel the need to respect ordinary users. |
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| 17:42.00 | abrotman | BluesKaj: please rant elsewhere |
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| 17:43.08 | BluesKaj | heh, respnse..negative, but else can I expect :/ |
| 17:44.16 | BluesKaj | what else, even |
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| 18:08.54 | simbalion | Hi, when I try to do 'apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree' in Debian 9 I get "no installation candidate". I have the contrib branch enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list |
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| 18:09.49 | jmcnaught | simbalion: it's gone, no more flash in Debian. You can install it manually by downloading it from Adobe, but the best thing to do is not use Flash any more if you can |
| 18:10.02 | simbalion | jmcnaught: that sucks. Livestream still requires flash |
| 18:10.30 | CuteAlien | *sigh* wasn't flushplugin-nonfree just a script doing that anyway? |
| 18:11.19 | jmcnaught | simbalion: the version of firefox-esr in Debian 9 does support that DRM stuff that lets html5 netflix work, I don't know about livestream but maybe you can go without flash with that feature available |
| 18:11.30 | jmcnaught | CuteAlien: it basically was, but it wasn't getting updated |
| 18:11.57 | simbalion | It's a mystery why Livestream hasn't upgraded their website since Flash has been on the chopping block for at least a year. |
| 18:12.14 | jmcnaught | s/year/decade/ |
| 18:12.31 | CuteAlien | not the only page still using it... can't expect tech to vanish that quickly. |
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| 18:12.58 | simbalion | CuteAlien: on the contrary. Basically every other major video website supports HTML5 and has for awhile |
| 18:13.14 | CuteAlien | Same with java really - I also had to switch to firefox-esr because of that |
| 18:13.45 | CuteAlien | simbalion, yeah, but not everyone just uses the major websites. Some people browse the wild lands beyond facebook |
| 18:13.47 | jmcnaught | flash support will get dropped from firefox at some point, we're better off without it |
| 18:13.51 | simbalion | What this probably means is that Livestream is in trouble and is probably going to go bankrupt |
| 18:14.06 | CuteAlien | For example lots of scientific pages used Java |
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| 18:14.56 | CuteAlien | And those guys are often not exactly the kind of people enjoying the rewriting of websites unfortunately |
| 18:15.14 | jmcnaught | Debian 9 *does* have java plugins for browsers, just not flash |
| 18:15.33 | jmcnaught | however we're drifting off topic |
| 18:15.35 | CuteAlien | jmcnaught, Firefox no longer has |
| 18:15.41 | CuteAlien | Except firefox-esr |
| 18:15.44 | simbalion | Can anyone in here tell me how to install the plugin manually? My firefox folder is /opt/firefox-beta/, so would I just drop the libflashplayer.so in that folder? |
| 18:16.19 | jmcnaught | simbalion: hah so you're not even using the firefox-esr package? |
| 18:16.22 | CuteAlien | And I guess flash also has it's uses for many people (anime fans for example will need it still a lot) |
| 18:16.57 | simbalion | Ah it goes in ~/.mozilla/plugins/ |
| 18:17.18 | simbalion | jmcnaught: No, firefox is really simple to install manually, doesn't require compiling, and I prefer to have the latest version |
| 18:17.31 | simbalion | btw I am trying the 55 beta, it's blazing fast compared to 54 (the current stable) |
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| 18:18.20 | Brigo | simbalion, https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/276350/how-to-install-latest-flash-player-for-iceweasel-firefox |
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| 18:18.33 | simbalion | Brigo: I got it, thanks :) |
| 18:18.55 | jmcnaught | simbalion: hopefully you don't run your browser as root to update it |
| 18:19.42 | simbalion | jmcnaught: no I just own the folder with my user account |
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| 19:03.02 | pie3 | what is dhclient used for? |
| 19:03.24 | Fjorgynn | apt show dhclient |
| 19:03.34 | Fjorgynn | nope. |
| 19:03.48 | Fjorgynn | dhcp? |
| 19:03.50 | Fjorgynn | https://linux.die.net/man/8/dhclient |
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| 19:09.34 | abrotman | pie3: dhcp requests |
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| 19:26.07 | somiaj | is there a way to make dmesg work for a normal user in stretch? |
| 19:26.13 | Mick | Hi, how do i get rid of those annoying 'lost+found' folders beeing created automatically, i want to disable the automated creation to those files.... |
| 19:26.33 | somiaj | Mick: I don't htink you can, they are part of the ext4 file system. You should only have one per file system though. |
| 19:26.49 | somiaj | they are used for if your file system has an error/is shut down inproperly. |
| 19:28.14 | somiaj | Mick: please don't message people. |
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| 19:28.48 | somiaj | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18154/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-lostfound-folder-in-linux-and-unix |
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| 19:29.11 | cruncher | somiaj, you can echo 0 >/proc/sys/kernel/dmesg_restrict |
| 19:29.23 | abrotman | somiaj: put them in the adm group |
| 19:29.23 | cruncher | or use sysctl |
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| 19:29.38 | somiaj | abrotman: I am in the adm group and still get the error |
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| 19:30.04 | somiaj | cruncher: I'll look into that, didn't know it was a sysctrl option |
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| 19:30.08 | abrotman | somiaj: cat /var/log/dmesg |
| 19:30.09 | jmcnaught | being in the adm group is not enough. there's a note about it in /usr/share/doc/linux-image/amd64/NEWS.Debian.gz, cruncher is correct about the sysctl |
| 19:30.13 | merimel | # Enable dmesg for user |
| 19:30.15 | merimel | kernel.dmesg_restrict=0 |
| 19:30.31 | jmcnaught | or if you are in systemd-journal group those messages are in the journal too |
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| 19:30.43 | merimel | in /etc/sysctl.conf will enable dmesg for user |
| 19:31.03 | Mick | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.35 | somiaj | Mick: I was not guessing, I was answering those questions. Those directories are part of the ext3/4 file system and are used with fsck and file system corruption. |
| 19:31.50 | Mick | tzzz* |
| 19:31.58 | somiaj | Mick: you should only have one per file system. If you have lots of ext3/4 file systems, you'll have lots of lost+found direcotires. |
| 19:32.20 | abrotman | they should be empty |
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| 19:33.23 | Mick | ahh... Silversurfing....silence... |
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| 19:35.13 | somiaj | jmcnaught, merimel, cruncher: thanks |
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| 19:37.30 | merimel | somiaj: if you edited config â you can run sysctl -p to reread configs and apply changes |
| 19:38.15 | somiaj | merimel: I'll keep that in mind. I ran sysctl ... and then added a file in /etc/sysctl.d/local.conf |
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| 19:46.59 | awal1 | systemctl disable bluetooth.service but bluetooth light still on |
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| 19:47.13 | awal1 | i don't see bluetooth stuff in bios |
| 19:48.21 | jmcnaught | awal1: did you also stop it, what's the status of the service? |
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| 19:49.57 | somiaj | you might also need to mask it, wonder if that service is on a hook vs run at start. |
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| 19:51.55 | awal1 | jmcnaught, now it is running bcoz I enabled it again. But it is off with systemctl disable bluetooth.service, I don't know why bluetooth 'light' still on even if service disabled |
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| 19:52.35 | awal1 | ok, folks, I'll ask again later having a 2d machine on |
| 19:52.44 | jmcnaught | awal1: "systemctl disable â¦" tells systemd not to start it at boot, but doesn't stop it if it's already running |
| 19:53.04 | awal1 | jmcnaught, i know yeah |
| 19:53.31 | jmcnaught | awal1: if you never want any bluetooth you could also try blacklisting its kernel modules |
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| 19:57.27 | jim | so, some have said here, there's no such thing as a "debian base",,, ok, then what is the minimal set of packages that can be installed on a debian, and if that's not called the base, what's it called? |
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| 19:58.20 | awal1 | jmcnaught, right, I don't use bluetooth at all. I was thinking on that yeah. I think I'll just need to create a file called bluetooth.conf in /etc/modeprob.d containing blacklist and any bluetooth stuff will be blocked at startup |
| 19:58.49 | cruncher | awal1, also try rfkill |
| 19:59.04 | jim | also, what do you call the set of packages contained in the netinstall image whose purpose is to be installed on a new debian in the case the net can't be configured? |
| 19:59.12 | awal1 | containing "blacklist bluetooth-module-name" |
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| 20:01.58 | jmcnaught | jim: there are packages considered essential, then there are package priorities required, important, standard, optional, and extra. https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-priorities |
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| 20:02.14 | jmcnaught | jim: you might consider "debian base" to be what debootstrap installs |
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| 20:03.10 | jim | jmcnaught, ok... there must be a history for not calling those "base" anymore? |
| 20:03.33 | jim | or not having required/base? |
| 20:04.25 | jim | is it that debaian wants to be more flexible about the set of packages first installed? |
| 20:04.41 | jim | (that explains why that happened) |
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| 20:05.50 | jim | is what debootstrap installs, and the set of packages in the netinstall image, the same set? |
| 20:07.06 | jim | (when I'm helping folks install a debian, right now I have to say "base but debian doesn't call it base anymore, for what reason I dunno" |
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| 20:07.42 | jim | it would be handy for me to understand that piece :) |
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| 20:08.12 | somiaj | jim: I call it a minimial system. The netinstall will install more stuff than debootstrap. |
| 20:08.45 | jim | howbout in the case the net can't be configured early/ |
| 20:08.46 | jim | ? |
| 20:08.52 | somiaj | same thing |
| 20:09.03 | somiaj | for one debootstrap won't isntall locales or a kernel (which comes with the netinstall image) |
| 20:09.54 | jim | ok, is what debootstrap installs a proper subset of what's in the netinstall image? |
| 20:10.05 | somiaj | I belive so. |
| 20:10.09 | awal1 | which is my blutooth module name ? http://paste.debian.net/977690 |
| 20:11.30 | merimel | first one |
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| 20:11.58 | jim | how can I figure out if I have a bluetooth... I dunno what to call it, not a device (like bluetooth headphones) but the thing that talks to those devices? |
| 20:12.11 | awal1 | merimel, btrtl? |
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| 20:14.46 | merimel | awal1: can you install hwinfo? |
| 20:15.31 | merimel | this tool can get detailed list of hardware driver modules used by them |
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| 20:16.51 | awal1 | merimel, hwinfo sounds interesting yeah. installing... |
| 20:17.39 | somiaj | lshw works too |
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| 20:23.11 | awal1 | somiaj, I used lshw in the past. but first time I use hwinfo and it looks like a better tool |
| 20:23.33 | awal1 | but I'm lost with it's outputs. I'll check them closely later |
| 20:24.47 | awal1 | thanks for your time guys, I have to run now |
| 20:24.53 | awal1 | gn :) |
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| 20:26.27 | Silversurfer_2 | How may i save all currently open terminal windows, so on log-in they would come up ? |
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| 20:29.17 | n4dir | Silversurfer_2: i think you could achieve that with the app "screen" (or tmux, assuming it is called like that). |
| 20:29.32 | n4dir | if you don't mean reboot, only log out and back in |
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| 20:30.31 | somiaj | Silversurfer_2: by currently opened, what do you mean? You could use your session manager to run/open any number of terminals when your de/wm loads. |
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| 20:30.51 | n4dir | and xfce4 for sure has the option to save the current X session, so on log in, even after reboot, it will be how you left. I guess that is valid for the terminal windows too |
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| 20:32.44 | pie3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:32.55 | pie3 | can someone explain me this command? |
| 20:33.13 | Silversurfer_2 | n4dir: thx, for the info... have to powerdown... |
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| 20:40.37 | ryouma | xmag menus are unreadable. while i appreciate a good ironic joke as much as anybody else, this is obviously insulting to anybody who cares about accessibility. is there any magnifier that works like osx magnification or compiz, where you can move around while it is still being magnified? |
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| 20:41.51 | jmcnaught | ryouma: did you try the Zoom feature under "Universal Access" in GNOME? |
| 20:42.12 | ryouma | jmcnaught: i use fluxbox |
| 20:42.36 | th0r | ryouma, synaptic lists xzoom. |
| 20:42.42 | ryouma | what does the zoom feature in gnome do? my computer is too old for gnome, and gnome does not support he features i need that only fluxbox does. |
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| 20:43.47 | ryouma | i already tried xzoom, gnome-mag, and kmag, and did not find them workable |
| 20:44.42 | th0r | ryouma, what do you want that xzoom doesn't do? |
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| 20:45.47 | ryouma | i don't recall what did not work, but typically those thigns are unusable. i use large fonts, so i don't have a whole lot of space for a magnifier window and a window to magnify. and the window to magnify is always full screen. and the juggling of windows is not tenable. |
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| 20:45.57 | ryouma | in osx, it's even better than having to juggle windows to magnify a window. you actually zoom into the entire desktop. and then yuo can move around and use the mousewheel. |
| 20:46.11 | ryouma | osx, and compiz i suspect, work. |
| 20:46.29 | ryouma | but compiz is a window manager, not a zoomer, and osx is an os, not a zoomer |
| 20:46.30 | jmcnaught | ryouma: that's how GNOME does it, but it is configurable |
| 20:46.43 | ryouma | can i run fluxbox and do that? |
| 20:46.52 | th0r | ryouma, you can resize xzoom to whatever size you want, and put it where you want. It will live update so you can scan a page to read it |
| 20:47.50 | ryouma | th0r: it's a separate window then. see above. i will try it yet again, but my notes say that i already tried it so it is not a /real/ solution. |
| 20:49.52 | ryouma | accessibility in debian is /definitely/ an afterthought |
| 20:50.22 | jmcnaught | GNOME seems to have the best accessibility features |
| 20:50.43 | n4dir | hmm ... compiz is in stretch. wondering if you can use it with fluxbox and then use the magnifier. |
| 20:50.54 | n4dir | you sure could use compiz with icewm. |
| 20:51.09 | jmcnaught | https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html.en |
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| 20:52.16 | ryouma | n4dir: what would i do to try that? |
| 20:52.59 | n4dir | ryouma: whew, i can't answer it, sorry |
| 20:53.24 | ryouma | th0r: no, xzoom is not even a partial solution. you have to click or something to show the location. clicking raises the window to be magnified. that window is full screen. the xzoom window, which is already int he way, disappears. if you magnify but cannot view the magnification, the program is less useful than xeyes. |
| 20:53.57 | n4dir | been ages i used compiz. Isn't there the panel-button, and you can click on it and then choose to switch wm's and tell compiz to use a wm and such? |
| 20:54.11 | ryouma | i have never used compiz. it does not exist in jessie iirc. |
| 20:54.40 | ryouma | i will install stretch if possible at smoe point, so i am curious if i can get compiz magnification to work from fluxbox |
| 20:55.06 | ryouma | i thought compiz was an entire wm |
| 20:55.48 | ryouma | "To set the location of the magnified are click the left mouse button inside xzoom's window and then move it (keep the button pressed) to the place which you want to see magnified." this makes teh program 100% useless. |
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| 20:56.58 | n4dir | it kinda is a wm. but it uses (for example) window decoration of (for example) gnome, xfce4, etc. |
| 20:57.25 | ryouma | if its zoom feature is separate then i am happy. but idk if that is true. |
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| 20:57.54 | ryouma | but if it requires me to use compiz, then that seems unworkable. perhaps i could switch back and forth, but i am skeptical. |
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| 20:59.22 | jmcnaught | ryouma: you could try booting into a stretch gnome live cd and test the accessibility features and how well it runs on your computer |
| 21:00.07 | ryouma | jmcnaught: live cds are super-problematic for me, because they default to unreadable fonts. i'd have to pass that hurdle before i could even test. |
| 21:00.22 | ryouma | and if i cannot read a font, then i cannot use the computer |
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| 21:01.40 | jmcnaught | ryouma: what do you need to install on a fresh Debian system to make fonts readable for you? |
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| 21:02.01 | ryouma | if debian had a switch you could select, which was at 480 resolution, for what size font to use, in its live cd, and if that switch affected everything from kernel to grub to initramfs to console to x to gtk and qt and solecistic programs and legacy programs AND gnome and compiz, then that would work. only putting accessibility into the social contract would achieve that, however. |
| 21:02.13 | ryouma | jmcnaught: it has taken years to get it right |
| 21:02.18 | ryouma | and i still ahve problems) |
| 21:02.35 | ryouma | e.g. sometimes i inadvertently open something in an application that opens an xterm (or whatever it is) in a window running less(1), i want this window to be legible |
| 21:03.51 | jmcnaught | well i still think you could try a stretch gnome live cd and test the zoom screen magnification feature and see if it works for you. If it doesn't then don't bother, or maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised |
| 21:04.34 | ryouma | jmcnaught: you'd be surprised at the number of places where you ened to be able to read things |
| 21:04.41 | ryouma | before youc an even uset eh computer |
| 21:04.52 | ryouma | for example, i'd have to find the menu item for zooming. oops. |
| 21:05.25 | ryouma | debian is REALLY problematic for getting legible fonts everywhere |
| 21:07.43 | jmcnaught | ryouma: GNOME zoom magnifies the full screen and follows your mouse around so you can see up close anywhere on the screen |
| 21:08.40 | ryouma | jmcnaught: without clicking? and you can zoom in and out using mouse wheel? |
| 21:09.06 | jmcnaught | zooming is a keyboard shortcut, you might be able to get it working on mouse wheel i don't know |
| 21:09.17 | ryouma | jmcnaught: unfortunately, my computer is too old for gnome, and gnome does not support he features i need that only fluxbox does. i would never get used to gnome. |
| 21:09.50 | jmcnaught | well i'm only bringing it up because you brought up accessibility issues, and GNOME does put a lot of focus on accessibility |
| 21:10.13 | ryouma | that is in their favor as a development group |
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| 21:12.43 | jmcnaught | is the computer >10 years old or something? not understanding complete refusal to even test the most accessible option available in Debian |
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| 21:18.02 | ryouma | yes, the computer is 11yo or so. but even if it were not, i disagree that "complete refusal" is a value-neutral description. it implies that i could try it without much trouble, but refuse to for stubbornness. i doubt you meant that, but that is what came across. i have been through all this before. i have followed these dead ends before. the live cd is quite problematic. and even if i got gnome up, i ahve to |
| 21:18.02 | ryouma | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:18.37 | ryouma | tldr: getting the zoom feature to work requires erading stuff that is not legible. |
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| 21:21.06 | n4dir | xfce4 seems to have a magnifier build in. If you can use fluxbox, you can use xfce4 too. Installing it also doesn't require much of diskspace (180 MB, iirc). That might be worth a try. |
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| 21:21.28 | pyes | Client: HexChat 2.12.4 ⢠OS: Parrot "JollyRoger" 3.7 ⢠CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2520M CPU @ 2.50GHz (799MHz) ⢠Memory: 3,7 GiB Total (2,3 GiB Free) ⢠Storage: 365,9 GB / 491,7 GB (125,8 GB Free) ⢠VGA: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family DRAM Controller ⢠Uptime: 4h 46m 8s |
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| 21:23.27 | jmcnaught | ryouma: I was suggesting the stretch live cd so you could check if any improvements have been made since the last time you tried |
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| 21:24.59 | ryouma | jmcnaught: i have the netinst. i presume the live is different? is there a reason to believe the attitude toward font size, hidpi, or accessibility has changed? |
| 21:25.41 | ryouma | n4dir: thanks, i also found that on a superuser site. if i can figure out switching wm back and forth then perhaps i can try xfce4 to find out whether it is suitable or not doing so. the only other option i seem to have is to take a screenshot, change the dot files for feh, and use that to zoom. |
| 21:26.16 | ryouma | then change dot files back |
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| 21:26.35 | blt | sudo dnf install sane-utis ... funny typo of the day |
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| 21:27.14 | n4dir | ryouma: switching wm's is rather easy. Do you use a display-manager (like gdm) or a file (like ~/.xinitrc) ? |
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| 21:27.21 | ryouma | have there been calls for accessibility to be a formal priority in debian just like e.g. man pages for programs? |
| 21:27.34 | ryouma | n4dir: .xinitrc |
| 21:27.58 | ryouma | i'd hnave to have both xfce and fluxbox be able to exec the other. dunno if xfce can do that. |
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| 21:28.19 | ryouma | or even if fluxbox can, properly |
| 21:28.31 | n4dir | add a line for xfce, probably "exec xfce4-session" (or similar). comment the line for fluxbox, run startx, xfce4 will start. To switch back do it the other way around |
| 21:28.34 | blt | crap, i'm in #debian, whups. nvm |
| 21:28.44 | blt | sorry for the noise |
| 21:28.45 | CoderEurope | !debian |
| 21:28.46 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, debian is http://www.debian.org. See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/index.en.html#contents |
| 21:29.00 | ryouma | n4dir: so you're saying quit all of my programs just to magnify one thing? |
| 21:29.07 | ryouma | untenable |
| 21:29.25 | n4dir | i meant to use it instead of fluxbox, not to magnify one thing |
| 21:29.59 | n4dir | though iirc the fluxbox menu has the option to switch the wm on the fly (without stopping all programs) |
| 21:30.01 | ryouma | fluxbox does things that xfce4 cannot do, and even if xfce4 does what i need, i don't want to guive up the only thing that woks for everythign else |
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| 21:30.38 | n4dir | wondering what those things might be. |
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| 21:32.59 | n4dir | ryouma: for quite a while fluxbox was the main wm of the distribution antix. Might be some of the folks at their forum have a good idea how to help you. |
| 21:33.46 | well_laid_lawn | there is #fluxbox |
| 21:34.06 | n4dir | yeah, good point |
| 21:34.21 | ryouma | indeed, the question is if i can switch back /and forth/ between xfce4 and fluxbox |
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| 21:34.53 | ryouma | (adn if xfce4 zooming erally works well enough) |
| 21:34.58 | well_laid_lawn | you can use fluxbox as the wm in xfce |
| 21:35.23 | ryouma | and then turn off /everythign/ else xfce4 does? |
| 21:36.00 | n4dir | it doesn't do that much ... |
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| 21:36.49 | ryouma | zooming is not the only thing i do with a computer. it is something i need only when some program fails to respect dpi. so changing to a de when i don't need one, just to get this occasional feature, is a sign that somethign is wrong with the overall picture. |
| 21:37.48 | well_laid_lawn | sounds like you haven't set fonts up properly |
| 21:37.54 | ryouma | there is, apparently, no requierment in deiban that programs respect dpi. there is a requirement that programs hav man pages. |
| 21:37.56 | n4dir | those were only proposals. |
| 21:38.02 | hubot | How to make own Linux distro based on Debian? |
| 21:38.03 | ryouma | well_laid_lawn: i hve spejnt years setting up fonts. |
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| 21:38.36 | n4dir | hubot: you could look at refracta-tools, refracta-snapshot or such. As *one* option |
| 21:39.01 | ryouma | well_laid_lawn: i have set x, gtk, qt, grub, and various programs' fonts. they work for most things. but there are still plenty of places where fonts are too small and nobody cares because it is no skin off their back. |
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| 21:39.25 | ryouma | well_laid_lawn: if you can tell me proper font setting that will cover all the exceptions, i'd be delighted |
| 21:39.27 | well_laid_lawn | all works fine here |
| 21:40.01 | ryouma | because you do not need large fonts and probably don't notice when fonts are not adjustable |
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| 21:40.17 | ryouma | because they look fine |
| 21:40.41 | well_laid_lawn | more than likely |
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| 21:42.18 | ryouma | i think the root cause is that accessibility is almost an anti-priority in debian. if it were even mentioned as smoething to be considered, more people would realize "oh i didn't realize" and make the typically small changes needed to make things work properly. and if it were a FORMAL priority, just like man pages were a formal priority, things would change. |
| 21:42.23 | random_numbers | What's the name of the package for latex info-manual? |
| 21:42.38 | ryouma | s/were/are/ |
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| 21:44.45 | n4dir | ryouma: other distributions work? |
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| 21:45.22 | ryouma | n4dir: no clue, debian has been my only distro, ever. i did not need large fonts for the many unices i tried. osx works, but i want debian. |
| 21:45.45 | ryouma | i do know that ubuntu at least claims to support accessbility |
| 21:45.55 | ryouma | but then debian claims to be for everybody also :( |
| 21:46.00 | jmcnaught | ryouma: I don't think that's quite fair but it's clear that you are frustrated. Debian does have accessibility features, that maybe don't work on older computers quite as well but are there. Did you try anything like https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Option_2:_Panning ? |
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| 21:47.38 | ryouma | jmcnaught: i will try xrandr panning, thank you for the idea |
| 21:47.40 | menace | is there a way to get all binary packages from a source package with a apt command without installing the source package or one of its binary-packages? |
| 21:48.20 | ryouma | debian in its bug reports often values mere user preferences above accessibility needs. i think this indicates an attitude. |
| 21:48.52 | ryouma | (same is true of firefox) |
| 21:51.23 | ryouma | i have to stop typing. thank you all for your suggestions. |
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| 22:06.20 | jmcnaught | ,i vmg |
| 22:06.21 | judd | Package vmg (utils, extra) in stretch/amd64: Virtual Magnifying Glass. Version: 3.7.1-2+b1; Size: 1567.4k; Installed: 5867k; Homepage: http://magnifier.sourceforge.net/ |
| 22:06.38 | jmcnaught | ryouma: did you try this program? it's in jessie-backports |
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| 22:10.35 | badargo | i finally understood what man chmod means concerning the "umask bits" :P that man is poorly writen :S |
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| 22:13.34 | badargo | "If none of these are given, the effect is as if (a) were given, |
| 22:13.36 | badargo | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.50 | badargo | umask bits* |
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| 22:17.51 | jmcnaught | badargo: Please use #debian-offtopic for this kind of discussion, and reserve #debian for support requests |
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| 22:20.11 | badargo | jmcnaught: u mean this #debian in freenode works the same way as that from debian servers where u cant chat about debian? |
| 22:21.08 | badargo | i always see ppl chatting freely here |
| 22:21.27 | jmcnaught | !ot |
| 22:21.28 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
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| 22:22.52 | jmcnaught | same bot and everything. the reason it's like this is because a lot of people here help while they're at work or otherwise busy, and only check for support questions periodically. If the channel is full of off-topic chatter, then support questions will be missed |
| 22:23.05 | jmcnaught | besides, is it more difficult to type in #debian-offtopic or something? |
| 22:23.22 | badargo | debian-offtopics room tend to be dead |
| 22:23.53 | badargo | and have 10 times less users |
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| 22:25.21 | jmcnaught | you do not need an audience of 1600 people to document yourself learning linux |
| 22:26.49 | badargo | well, we were chatting about chmod = in this room yesterday and it was quite fun so i just brought the subject up again |
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| 22:27.02 | jellycode | hi all, i'm really struggling with a new debian vm |
| 22:27.20 | m_ | What about talking about Netrunner? It's based on Debian and uses Debian repositories. |
| 22:27.21 | jellycode | the network adapter wasn't right when it was installed, so openssh-server isn't installed |
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| 22:27.35 | jellycode | the sources.list file was almost empty |
| 22:27.51 | jmcnaught | m_: other distros are also offtopic here |
| 22:27.56 | jellycode | i tried adding some sources i found online, all of them say openssh-server isn't found |
| 22:28.17 | ryouma | jmcnaught: thank you. didn't check to see if it was in backports. |
| 22:28.32 | jmcnaught | jellycode: online where? There is an example sources.list on the Debian wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList |
| 22:28.56 | m_ | ok jmcnaught |
| 22:28.59 | Eduard_Munteanu | jellycode, and don't forget to apt-get update |
| 22:29.29 | jellycode | i did run apt-get update, and i did use the one on the wiki, however i changed the word stretch to jessie |
| 22:29.32 | ryouma | jmcnaught: it is shocking that the wiki says not to ue "xrandr --dpi 200". this is my mainstay of making fonts legible. i have to change gtk and qt and grub and various programs ON TOP of this. but to not be able to do this would make me stop using debian, having used it for many years. |
| 22:30.26 | Eduard_Munteanu | jellycode, have you installed Jessie? |
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| 22:32.33 | jellycode | I used hte ISO named: debian-9.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 22:33.38 | jmcnaught | ryouma: that's usually an indication that there's a newer preferred way to solve this problem, and/or that the deprecated solution in some way interferes with something else |
| 22:35.42 | ryouma | the wiki does not say so |
| 22:35.50 | jellycode | uhhh... i think that's stretch |
| 22:36.36 | badargo | ##linux |
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| 22:38.16 | jmcnaught | ryouma: it seems that the authors of that wiki page believe that the other options under Full Screen magnification support are superior to changing DPI, possibly in part because it requires changes to be made in so many places |
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| 22:40.02 | ryouma | jmcnaught: so to read every single line of text i ahve to zoom and go horizontally and then go back to the beginning of the next line? this is progress? |
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| 22:40.56 | ryouma | xrandr changes many thigns all at once, which is exactly what is needed. in fact, xrandr dpi should be respected by all programs. |
| 22:41.18 | jellycode | ok, got it working |
| 22:41.23 | jellycode | now sudo isn't even installed |
| 22:41.30 | jellycode | i installed it via apt |
| 22:41.35 | jellycode | now i can't edit the sudoers file with vi |
| 22:41.39 | jellycode | says i need visudo |
| 22:41.43 | jellycode | but apt-get install can't find that |
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| 22:42.15 | jmcnaught | jellycode: it's in the sudo package |
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| 22:44.12 | jellycode | thx, got it |
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| 22:45.21 | jmcnaught | jellycode: FYI on Debian you can add users to the sudo group with "adduser username sudo", if you want to grant access without editing sudoers |
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| 22:46.02 | jmcnaught | if you need something more finegrained, i recommend "visudo -f /etc/sudoers.d/foobar" or whatever instead of editing the distro supplied file |
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| 22:47.59 | jellycode | thanks, adduser would have been better |
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| 22:53.57 | jmcnaught | ryouma: if you can find a way to get GNOME working on your computer I still think testing it via a live disk is worthwhile. It has an accessibility menu in the top right of the login screen where you can turn on large text, zoom, screen reader et al. (and of course keyboard shortcuts that you can look up beforehand) |
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| 22:55.46 | afidegnum | hello, there have been a flood of attempting to login into my SMTP server, |
| 22:55.51 | afidegnum | 2017-07-23 00:30:18 login authenticator failed for (User) [91.200.12.121]: 435 Unable to authenticate at present (set_id=bobby): failed to connect to socket /var/run/c$ |
| 22:56.02 | afidegnum | with numerous ip addresses |
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| 22:58.12 | petemc | afidegnum: thats to be expected |
| 22:58.48 | afidegnum | ? |
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| 23:09.17 | debroooo | Why Debian automatically open ssh/http ports when I install packages? |
| 23:09.56 | jmcnaught | Debian assumes that you install that software because you want to use it |
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| 23:23.01 | kabouter | a lot of updates in fresh debian 9.1 so it seems. |
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| 23:34.26 | Graypup_ | how can I disable the (IMO insecure) behaviour of autostarting services with default configs upon installation. This is debian unstable with systemd, so the policy-rc.d trick doesn't work. |
| 23:34.44 | Graypup_ | *? |
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| 23:44.55 | LtL | Graypup_: #systemctl disable service-name.service |
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| 23:46.26 | LtL | Graypup_: that wont stop it, but it won't start on boot, use stop to stop it |
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