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| 00:03.27 | Noob | rant, thanks |
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| 00:21.38 | evilbug | is deb switching to wayland? |
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| 00:25.03 | awal1 | apt-cache's --names-only with aptitude? |
| 00:25.47 | somiaj | evilbug: debian won't completely switch (at least in any time soon), but debian does provide waylend as an alternative which I think is default with gnome in stretch. |
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| 00:26.36 | evilbug | somiaj: gotcha. i ran update and saw xwayland as a package which threw me off. |
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| 00:27.46 | awal1 | wayland is not ready yet |
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| 00:28.23 | awal1 | many bugs, missing features... |
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| 00:29.06 | awal1 | evilbug, wayland is developed by xorg people too |
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| 00:42.28 | evilbug | awal1: yeah, i know it's ways away from stable which is why i found that curious. |
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| 00:51.45 | awal1 | xwayland is in debian long time now |
| 00:51.52 | awal1 | ,v xwayland |
| 00:51.53 | judd | Package: xwayland on amd64 -- jessie-security: 2:1.16.4-1+deb8u1; jessie: 2:1.16.4-1+deb8u1+b1; stretch: 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u1; stretch-security: 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u1; buster: 2:1.19.3-2; sid: 2:1.19.5-1 |
| 00:52.33 | awal1 | since jessie dev. |
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| 00:54.40 | pfc4evr | Does xwayland get in the way for onlinecscreen recording of expensive games |
| 00:55.47 | pfc4evr | For peoplevto be able to see all the game play as a movie without having to play it |
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| 00:58.51 | pfc4evr | Such as the putlaws game play video on youtube for the windowd game outlaws |
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| 01:00.41 | pfc4evr | Is xwayland going to interfere eith this |
| 01:01.02 | noob231 | hi folks. Can anyone help me getting my wireless card from my laptop recognized on debian (parrotos)? I did a lot of googling and also already downloaded the virtualbox extension |
| 01:01.20 | somiaj | !parrotos |
| 01:01.21 | dpkg | Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>. |
| 01:01.30 | noob231 | Yeah that won't help but thanks |
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| 01:01.43 | noob231 | I mean dozens of people have this problem on debian distributions |
| 01:02.25 | noob231 | i mean i dont even get information about my wireless card when i type lspci |
| 01:03.20 | somiaj | This channel is for supporting debian, not things based on debian such as parrot os. You should use there support. You could also try ##linux which is for generic linux support. |
| 01:03.43 | somiaj | s/there/their/ |
| 01:03.54 | pfc4evr | I want to know if xwayland will destroy everyones ability to see all the games without playing them |
| 01:04.07 | noob231 | this isn't about parrotos |
| 01:04.08 | noob231 | lol |
| 01:04.37 | noob231 | this is about getting my card to work on a debian distribution |
| 01:04.39 | noob231 | on virtualbox |
| 01:04.53 | noob231 | this has absolutely nothing to do with with parrotos actually lol |
| 01:06.23 | pfc4evr | For examplevl the screen copy command in ffmpeg with radeon driver |
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| 01:07.08 | pfc4evr | Is xwayland going to destroy all this kind of stuff |
| 01:08.05 | somiaj | noob231: what host are you using? And parrotos is the guest? |
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| 01:10.04 | pfc4evr | Because for example some people like to see and hear yuna sing 1000 words withiout having to play the game |
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| 01:10.27 | noob231 | somiaj, hi, How can I check which host I'm using? and I'm running shell on root |
| 01:10.55 | glick | uname |
| 01:11.06 | noob231 | and yes guest additions are enabled |
| 01:11.18 | somiaj | noob231: you said virtualbox, so what are you running virtualbox? And you are installing parrotos as a guest vm using virtual box? |
| 01:11.30 | pfc4evr | Or pay for expensive playstatiobs and nintendos |
| 01:12.23 | noob231 | im running 5.1.30 and I just normally created the VM |
| 01:12.28 | pfc4evr | Will xwayland destroy this important public feature of x |
| 01:12.33 | noob231 | sorry lol I'm a beginner but appreciate your help |
| 01:12.42 | somiaj | pfc4evr: do you have an actual debian support question. I'm sure that as stuff switches to waylend (which has gone very slowly) there will still be ways for people to record their desktops. |
| 01:13.04 | somiaj | noob231: 5.1.30? I didn't ask what version of virtual box you are running, I asked what os you are using to run virtual box. |
| 01:13.18 | pfc4evr | Somia ok so wait and see |
| 01:13.33 | noob231 | oh |
| 01:13.35 | noob231 | Windows |
| 01:13.48 | noob231 | Windows 10 lol |
| 01:14.20 | somiaj | pfc4evr: people can still run xorg to record stuff until wayland has that ability. But if you are courious, you can go test it out. |
| 01:15.49 | somiaj | noob231: This has little to do with debian. For configuring a virtual network with virtualbox running on windows, you should read about virtual box on windows. To configure the network in the guest os, parrotos in this case, you should read up on how to configure the network in parrot os. |
| 01:15.56 | noob231 | somiaj: do I have to find out which wireless card my laptop has and then to search the driver and install it? |
| 01:16.02 | annadane | so you're using a windows host to run a parrot guest and you're asking in #debian |
| 01:16.05 | annadane | not a good idea |
| 01:16.19 | noob231 | I thought I can fix this with the console in parrots |
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| 01:16.40 | noob231 | i mean does it even matter that it is parrot it's a debian distribution at the end |
| 01:16.42 | somiaj | not if the host (windows) doesn't have the virtual networkcard/network configured correctly |
| 01:16.57 | pfc4evr | Ok later right now i am concernwd about the lack of availabilitiy to see the official katy perry roar video and to compare it with taylors lofficial look what you made me do video |
| 01:17.17 | somiaj | but either way this has nothing to do with debian. You may get some support for virtual box in windows, or go ask parrotos as ou were orignally directed to. |
| 01:17.38 | somiaj | pfc4evr: this is off topic, and not the place to worry about what other people create. The ability to create stuff will not go away. |
| 01:17.41 | noob231 | ill just get rid of that laptop |
| 01:17.46 | noob231 | ill try to read about the stuff you told me |
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| 01:17.49 | noob231 | if that doesnt work ill get rid of it |
| 01:17.58 | th0r | can I have it? |
| 01:18.05 | noob231 | you dont want to |
| 01:18.20 | noob231 | its an asus eeebook |
| 01:18.36 | noob231 | i just bought it because it's cheap and I need one for university |
| 01:18.53 | somiaj | noob231: eitehr way this is off topic. Please respect the volunteers who are here to support debian. Not parrot os, or virtualbox running on windows. |
| 01:19.35 | annadane | !tell noob231 about based on debian |
| 01:19.42 | noob231 | arent questions about debian distributions also debian questions in a way? |
| 01:19.55 | annadane | no, see the pm dpkg sent you |
| 01:19.59 | noob231 | thanks |
| 01:20.01 | noob231 | i didn't know that |
| 01:20.07 | noob231 | i thought it's a good os |
| 01:20.15 | th0r | noob231, you are misunderstanding how virtualbox works. Your problem isn't with windows or parrotos....you don't understand vbox |
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| 01:20.51 | noob231 | thanks th0r and somiaj |
| 01:20.54 | somiaj | noob231: We choose for techencial and social reasons to only support debian pure blends. Technical reasons is derivatives have their own policy/testing/core system that can be very different from debian. |
| 01:21.08 | noob231 | "social reasons" |
| 01:21.16 | pfc4evr | Therecare still a lot of people that havent seen either video on debian to compare them. Anr to not be misled by all the fake videos on these two |
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| 01:21.55 | noob231 | did you just mute me? lol |
| 01:23.30 | somiaj | noob231: Part of what you get when you choose an opensource distribution is the support community and people who donte their time to help users of that distribution. |
| 01:24.28 | noob231 | what is a pure debian distribution then? what do you use? |
| 01:25.21 | somiaj | I use debian. |
| 01:25.34 | somiaj | !pure blend |
| 01:25.34 | dpkg | A Debian Pure Blend (formerly Custom Debian Distribution) is a subset of Debian configured to support a particular target group out-of-the-box. Not to be confused with distributions <based on Debian>. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends http://blends.debian.org/ #debian-blends on irc.oftc.net. |
| 01:25.59 | somiaj | noob231: a pure blend is a custom set of debian packages from the offical debian releases, as opposed to a derivative which takes debian packages and modifies them. |
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| 01:26.40 | noob231 | cool |
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| 01:28.05 | somiaj | in your case, virtual network interfaces are usually detected in linux. So my guess is you need to configure virtualbox and its virtual network on windows correctly. |
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| 01:28.42 | somiaj | noob231: if you want just generic linux support there is ##linux and ##windows may be able to help with virtual box on windows. |
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| 01:29.29 | somiaj | there might even be a virtual box channel |
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| 01:33.17 | thoraxe | so, total debian newb here. I am trying to find the UUID perl package, but i'm in a xenial docker image. apt-cache search uuid isn't returning libossp-uuid-perl which makes me think a repo is incorrectly configured. but I'm coming from an RPM/EL background so I'm all thumbs here |
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| 01:34.28 | thoraxe | https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/libossp-uuid-perl this looks like the package I want (I need UUID.pm / perl module) |
| 01:35.26 | mutante | thoraxe: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=uuid-perl&searchon=names&suite=stable§ion=all |
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| 01:36.22 | thoraxe | mutante: so that page makes it seem like this package isn't available in xenial? |
| 01:36.25 | mutante | thoraxe: so yea, it is available in Debian stable. xenial isn't Debian, that's Ubuntu. you should paste the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 01:36.30 | thoraxe | sorry |
| 01:36.34 | thoraxe | is having a bad nigh |
| 01:37.01 | mutante | on either you shoudl see it aith apt-cache search |
| 01:37.16 | thoraxe | yeah i don't see it with apt-cache search |
| 01:37.17 | mutante | make sure to run "apt-get update" first maybe |
| 01:37.20 | thoraxe | aha |
| 01:37.23 | thoraxe | yeah that's probably it |
| 01:37.40 | mutante | try it and then repeat the search |
| 01:37.43 | thoraxe | tx |
| 01:37.49 | mutante | update updates the sources lists |
| 01:37.59 | mutante | upgrade upgrades packages |
| 01:38.31 | thoraxe | is there something similar to "yum provides" with apt? |
| 01:38.41 | thoraxe | like "show me the packages that have this file in them" |
| 01:38.55 | thoraxe | on EL I could do "yum provides '*lib*UUID.pm' |
| 01:39.05 | mutante | i think that would be apt-file but you have to install that separately |
| 01:39.31 | mutante | apt-cache show apt-file |
| 01:39.44 | mutante | apt-get install apt-file |
| 01:39.50 | mutante | apt-file foobar |
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| 01:47.08 | phogg | mutante: it's apt-file search foobar |
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| 01:53.37 | qww | hi all, how to change system fonts in debian stretch? thanks |
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| 01:54.20 | somiaj | define system? Console? gnome? some other de? |
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| 02:03.23 | qww | no de...just i3. when I mean system I mean all programs like file manager, editor etc |
| 02:04.29 | qww | should I change each program...or is there a way to assign a font to all programs |
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| 02:10.47 | Philosurfer | Wouldn't it be great if i3 was in a debian repository? |
| 02:11.01 | Philosurfer | Or even better, i3-gaps |
| 02:11.37 | qww | ehm i3 is in the debian repo |
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| 02:11.46 | qww | i3-gaps is not |
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| 02:13.45 | Philosurfer | i3 is in the core repo?! |
| 02:14.29 | Philosurfer | oh my goodness, there is a hyphen in the name |
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| 02:15.04 | annadane | Philosurfer, i3-wm |
| 02:15.06 | Philosurfer | I spent six hours trying to build it(which I've done before, but I'm on a "new" machine with an old version of debian |
| 02:15.08 | annadane | oh, hyphen, yeah |
| 02:15.12 | annadane | thought you said space |
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| 02:15.29 | Philosurfer | and I didn't need to do all that. >.< |
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| 02:15.43 | Philosurfer | qww: Thank you! |
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| 02:19.49 | veek | how do i debug the mouse - plug/unplug works after boot up |
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| 02:20.30 | veek | after boot up |
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| 02:22.22 | dtux | is it possible to put an lvm on a luks partition on an lvm (i.e. nested lvms)? |
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| 03:00.25 | Philosurfer | So I installed a bunch of dependancies for i3-gaps because I didn't realize i3-wm was in the core repository and so now that I've installed i3, i3bar doesn't appear, and instead displays an error message that a dependancy has not been met. |
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| 03:01.16 | Philosurfer | I copied the error message to paste here, but I foolishly forgot that my clipboard wouldn't persist after logging out, so I don't have the exact words... |
| 03:01.27 | Philosurfer | Anyone heard of this? |
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| 03:01.43 | Philosurfer | Gonna check my search history for when I searched for the error to see if i can find it |
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| 03:02.46 | annadane | it depends on how you installed the dependencies |
| 03:02.54 | annadane | if you stuck to the repository it shouldn't hinder i3, in theory |
| 03:03.03 | annadane | if on the other hand you got them from github/ubunau ppa's... |
| 03:03.08 | annadane | ubuntu* |
| 03:03.29 | Philosurfer | I did not stick to the repository, because i3-gaps isn't in there. (as far as I know...) |
| 03:03.36 | Philosurfer | I installed all kinds of things |
| 03:03.39 | annadane | yeah, so uninstalled those deps |
| 03:03.43 | annadane | !frankendebian |
| 03:03.43 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help. |
| 03:03.54 | annadane | god damn it |
| 03:03.58 | annadane | s/uninstalled/uninstall |
| 03:04.04 | Philosurfer | I found the error message; rror: status_command not found or is missing a library dependency (exit 127) |
| 03:06.01 | Philosurfer | Is there a way I can, like, check the dependancies for i3-wm in the repository or something? I thought I remembered hearing about a command for that |
| 03:06.57 | annadane | apt depends i3-wm |
| 03:07.16 | Philosurfer | depends! Thank you very much!!! |
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| 03:08.20 | Philosurfer | Thank you very much! |
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| 03:11.27 | Philosurfer | Oh, that's the rub! libcairo2. That's why I failed to install i3-gaps. I have 1.14.0, I believe |
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| 03:11.52 | Philosurfer | I'm on an older debian, so I think i'm not able to go any higher |
| 03:12.17 | Philosurfer | So I guess the solution is rebuild or get used to xfce! |
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| 03:12.38 | Philosurfer | You guys rock, thank you very much! |
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| 03:13.01 | annadane | !next |
| 03:13.01 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 03:21.17 | dtux | is it possible to put an lvm on a luks partition on an lvm (i.e. nested lvms)? |
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| 05:59.59 | veek | in 9.2.1 how do you fix the ppp-udeb error with netinstall - there's a problem with the ppp-udeb post install script |
| 06:00.20 | veek | anyway netinstall of pkgs from repo doesn't work in 9.2.1 dvd |
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| 06:01.07 | veek | is there a way to use the shell to edit something and load pppoe manually |
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| 06:22.35 | inerkick | Hi guys. I installed Debian yesterday, but my touch pad tapping isn't working . Kindly help |
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| 06:26.24 | inerkick | anyone here |
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| 06:27.55 | annadane | inerkick, questions don't always get answered immediately; it being 2 am it may be a bit quieter. you can wait for a bit or try the mailing list debian-user@lists.debian.org |
| 06:28.16 | inerkick | thank you annadane |
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| 06:48.27 | Psyb3rN4ut | did the security patch go out yet? |
| 06:48.47 | annadane | Psyb3rN4ut, if you mean wifi, for stable and unstable, yes |
| 06:48.53 | annadane | not sure about testing, i think that's later today |
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| 06:49.54 | annadane | Psyb3rN4ut, the version number says it's apparently in testing now as well |
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| 06:50.22 | Psyb3rN4ut | annadane: when did it go out for sid? |
| 06:50.22 | annadane | (which i should have checked earlier for the other person(s) asking about it, hindsight...) |
| 06:51.12 | annadane | Psyb3rN4ut, 2 days ago according to apt changelog (the 16th, though it's only the 18th here because it's after midnight, so effectively yesterdayish) |
| 06:51.40 | Psyb3rN4ut | annadane: ok cool...thanx |
| 06:51.55 | annadane | Psyb3rN4ut, for future reference sid questions should be asked in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
| 06:52.07 | Psyb3rN4ut | annadane: thanx |
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| 07:25.15 | darxmurf | hi all |
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| 07:37.06 | cajdavidson | I've come across a server that I need to reset the root password on - it's running Debian/kFreeBSD - can anyone let me know how to reset the root password on it? I've tried joining the #debian-kbsd irc but there is nobody in there! |
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| 07:42.59 | jolt | cajdavidson: Does it still use grub? I think this would work: reboot, at grub add "init=/bin/bash" to the boot options, then mount -o remount -w /; then passwd root |
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| 07:43.23 | jolt | cajdavidson: I don't use it on BSD, but I believe it would be pretty much the same |
| 07:44.27 | cajdavidson | @jolt It does still use grub but the boot options/lines are different, set with config options like "vfs.root.mountfrom.options" |
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| 07:47.24 | dexta | gm |
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| 07:48.52 | jolt | cajdavidson: Darn. Then I don't know. But I guess it must be possible to override the init script somehow, which is the key here |
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| 07:49.11 | jolt | cajdavidson: otherwise use boot-medium and mount the disk and change pw? |
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| 07:52.51 | tiny | If you edit interfaces and put an interface on manual (previously on dhcp) but make a typo, say in network field "255.2555.255.0" you can't fix the problem anymore by fixing a typo. No way to put interface up again. |
| 07:53.18 | babilen | cajdavidson: There are 58 people in #debian-kbsd ... I'd give it another try (obviously on oftc with the rest of the #debian-* channels) |
| 07:53.20 | tiny | you need to put it back on dhcp, fix typo, then stop/start networking |
| 07:53.47 | tiny | I'd call this a bug? |
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| 08:18.22 | bs0d | Hello community. I need to get 64-bit gnu arm toolchain. I have installed gcc-arm-none-eabi cross-compiler, but it turns out to be arm32 compiler suite, not arm64. |
| 08:18.52 | bs0d | I failed to find any 64-bit compiler suite. I am surprised that 32-bit arm suite is in the amd64 apt-get repository |
| 08:19.07 | bs0d | Is there any way I can get the arm64 cross-compiler? |
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| 08:38.36 | JustASlacker | is there anyway to get command completion in tmux |
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| 08:42.57 | well_laid_lawn | tmux should have a shell - try echo $SHELL |
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| 08:47.22 | _ppp | hello i am trying to add arabic text to my website, it doesnt display correctly do i need to add any arabic support a debian machine? |
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| 08:48.20 | petn-randall | !ar |
| 08:48.20 | dpkg | ar is, like, a program packaged in binutils to create, modify, and extract from archives (man ar), or argentina, or #debian-ar on irc.oftc.net. |
| 08:48.30 | petn-randall | hmm, wait. |
| 08:48.52 | babilen | dpkg: arabic |
| 08:48.52 | dpkg | Ù
رØبا! ÙÙØصÙ٠عÙ٠اÙدعÙ
باÙÙغة اÙعربÙØ© ÙتÙزÙعة دبÙا٠جÙÙ\ÙÙÙÙÙس , اÙرجاء اÙتÙج٠اÙÙ ÙÙاة ##debian-ar |
| 08:48.56 | babilen | ;) |
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| 08:49.47 | babilen | But I think it boils down to: Do I have the right fonts? |
| 08:50.04 | babilen | No idea what's needed for Arabic unfortunately |
| 08:50.21 | babilen | "apt-cache search fonts arabic" might be a start |
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| 08:50.39 | petn-randall | Indeed, I was confused that both were #debian-ar at first, but the arabic one has two hashes. |
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| 08:51.30 | petn-randall | _ppp: I'd try asking in the channel above. While it might have less users, you'll find other arabic-speaking people and I'm sure they got a running setup. ;) |
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| 09:00.26 | veek | ,v pdnsd |
| 09:00.27 | judd | Package: pdnsd on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.2.8-par-3; jessie: 1.2.9a-par-2 |
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| 09:12.45 | dionysus69 | ok I am backing up my home dir to a remote HDD, what's the fastest way to encrypt in a way that later I can decrypt the dir and run rsync again for incremental changes |
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| 09:14.26 | petn-randall | dionysus69: LUKS |
| 09:14.54 | dionysus69 | i just googled, says its a full disk encryption |
| 09:15.17 | dionysus69 | do you mean fully encrypting the external hdd partition? |
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| 09:18.04 | shtrb | dionysus69 what are you going to rsync ? the unencrypted or the encrypted data ? |
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| 09:18.17 | dionysus69 | unencrepted data |
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| 09:18.30 | dionysus69 | unencrypted* |
| 09:18.47 | shtrb | In such case it is enough to encrypt both sides and allow local acceess to the filesystem |
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| 09:19.26 | dionysus69 | I just care to restrict access to unencrypted data on external hdd at this point |
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| 09:21.44 | shtrb | LUKS but remember windows will not be able to mount it easily |
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| 09:22.36 | dionysus69 | its ok :D |
| 09:22.39 | dionysus69 | I dont use windows :) |
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| 09:28.46 | demo_ | hi |
| 09:29.21 | demo_ | I'm looking for some pointers installing linux in a netbook with a costum grub... |
| 09:29.49 | demo_ | anyone here can point me the right way, please? |
| 09:29.54 | petn-randall | demo_: What should that custom grub do? |
| 09:29.59 | petn-randall | !goal |
| 09:29.59 | dpkg | Describe your goal, not what you think the solution is. |
| 09:31.31 | demo_ | well the details are as follows: the netbook already has the costum grub with a menu that allows me to chose windows7 (wich I some times need) and a very old linux distro... it also allows, by pressing an F key, to restore the installed windows or linux OS... |
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| 09:32.31 | demo_ | I would like to install antix linux (I've been using it via live USB), but I want to be sure I keep the option to restore the windows OS latter... I'm a long time linux user, but not very thecnical... |
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| 09:34.17 | veek | demo_, linux is small install it to a fast usb stick amd64 and you can get your setup on any machine |
| 09:34.38 | veek | don't go with stretch though |
| 09:35.41 | demo_ | veek: thanks, I already have installed antix linux (it's a debian 8 jessie distro on my desktop at home... it runs great...) My problem is that I'm afraid to lose the restore windows OS option if I install it in my netbooks here at work |
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| 09:37.04 | demo_ | I'm not very technical, I can use the terminal if I have to (and some times I have no other way to get stuff done), but I'm not confortable messing with grub |
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| 09:39.54 | demo_ | petn-randall, dpkg, any ideas? is there a way of checking and backing up the grub from my hardrrive from a live distro? |
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| 09:40.52 | veek | demo_, grub installs from sector 0 to whatever is the start of the first partition |
| 09:41.02 | veek | AND on the rootfs |
| 09:41.11 | demo_ | also, a non related question: do you guys think there's any chance of my hard drive on this old netbook being so slow that the system runs faster from usb than from hd? |
| 09:41.51 | veek | i run on usb 2 and don't notice a diff between 5400 HD |
| 09:42.36 | shtrb | demo_, you need osprobe installed all the rest is standard and you can use a CDD to build yourself a tiny debian installation |
| 09:42.41 | petn-randall | !antix |
| 09:42.41 | demo_ | veek: I tried a frugral install yesterday and noticed to system to seem at least as slow as from my usb stick... I thought it would be way faster... |
| 09:42.41 | dpkg | antiX is a live CD distribution based on <MEPIS>. It is not supported in #debian. http://antix.mepis.org/ #mepis on irc.freenode.net. See also <based on debian>. |
| 09:42.41 | veek | use olvwm not kde/kdm etc so.. it's snappy |
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| 09:42.46 | shtrb | Custom Debian Distribution |
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| 09:43.46 | demo_ | sthtrb: that sounds a bit more complex than I can usually do... I'm usually a end user, able to make small adaptations to cli commands I see on line and not much more... |
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| 09:44.34 | demo_ | and thanks for the info dpkg |
| 09:44.36 | petn-randall | demo_: I'd just install a stock Debian stretch and overwrite the bootloader. If you want to remove grub, you can just run a command in Windows ("fixmbr"). Your old grub will cause more trouble than it helps. |
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| 09:45.46 | shtrb | demo_ , in such case netinstall + osprobe will allow you to overwrite the existing grub or installing without a boot manager and calling osprobe from some other dist to generate the grub meny |
| 09:45.48 | shtrb | *menu |
| 09:46.01 | veek | demo_, dpkg's a bot |
| 09:46.11 | petn-randall | dpkg: are you a bot? |
| 09:46.11 | dpkg | I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse). |
| 09:46.20 | demo_ | ok, petn-randall... but doing that from windows would not bring the costum grub with os restore option, right? it would iliminate grub... |
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| 09:46.37 | shtrb | dpkg is just a callcenter operator |
| 09:46.37 | dpkg | i don't know, shtrb |
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| 09:46.50 | petn-randall | demo_: yes. But that's what you want, right? An option to restore the Windows bootloader. |
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| 09:48.31 | demo_ | I guess I didn't express my real concern right, petn... the grub menu I have right now has 2 normal options: windows or a old linux distro... but it I press a F key, it does a system restore of the linux distro or the windows os... thats what I want to keep... |
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| 09:49.54 | demo_ | it restores any os the default OS's to the factory configuration (it installs a hard drive image that overrides what's in the os or linux partions to the default settings) |
| 09:50.20 | demo_ | *win the windows or linux partions... |
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| 09:51.50 | petn-randall | demo_: Debian doesn't have such a thing. So there's a reserve partition with all the factory images somewhere? |
| 09:52.02 | demo_ | I don't mind the old linux distro... what I want to keep is the option to restore the other os (windows), because I sometimes need to use some windows only programs, and that's the only windows os I have at home or at work... |
| 09:52.11 | demo_ | yes, petn |
| 09:52.22 | petn-randall | demo_: I'm guessing your sysadmin built something like that, or a distro I don't know of has that option. |
| 09:52.27 | petn-randall | demo_: petn<tab> |
| 09:52.30 | demo_ | I found the "restore OS partition" |
| 09:52.54 | demo_ | but I don't know how to access it from a normal grub menu... |
| 09:53.34 | demo_ | my netbook is a old dual boot portuguese machine |
| 09:54.17 | demo_ | it comes with this default setting. it was suposed to be used by kids at school, so it came with a hand restore both systems in case the kids messed it up |
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| 09:54.29 | veek | when reporting a bug in the installation - what pkg name do you use? |
| 09:54.32 | demo_ | right now it's my main pc here at worl |
| 09:54.47 | veek | ppp-udeb didn't work |
| 09:54.56 | petn-randall | !doesnt work |
| 09:54.57 | dpkg | "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>. |
| 09:55.09 | petn-randall | veek: Try to be a tad more specific. ^^^ |
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| 09:55.27 | veek | petn-randall, reportbug doesn't have an option |
| 09:55.49 | veek | reportbug for selecting install media |
| 09:56.02 | petn-randall | demo_: Then your only option is not to install Debian, or to configure your grub by hand from the other system. |
| 09:56.29 | petn-randall | veek: "11:54 < veek > ppp-udeb didn't work" *what* didn't work? |
| 09:56.59 | demo_ | oh.. ok, petn... thanks for the replies |
| 09:57.19 | veek | jeeze - why do i waste my time here |
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| 09:57.54 | demo_ | I guess I just have to chance installing this os had hopping the window$ OS keeps running ok... or just keep using it live |
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| 09:58.12 | demo_ | *and keep hoping |
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| 09:59.04 | demo_ | one last non thecnical question... I already tried several tiny distros, like puppy, lubuntu, and so on... |
| 10:00.01 | demo_ | as far as I've testes, antix is the one that runs better on both my machines... |
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| 10:02.36 | demo_ | any good linux os for machines with low resources you guys can point me to? |
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| 10:02.48 | petn-randall | demo_: Yes. Debian. |
| 10:03.24 | demo_ | pure debian? |
| 10:03.30 | petn-randall | demo_: Sure. |
| 10:03.45 | petn-randall | demo_: It's the only distro you'll get support in this channel, too. |
| 10:03.46 | demo_ | I tested, some time ago debian with xfce |
| 10:04.01 | petn-randall | s/support/support for/ |
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| 10:04.42 | demo_ | it didn't run as well as this antix... I was under the impression antix was a debian version with some costumisations to take up less resources |
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| 10:05.18 | demo_ | that's why I came looking for help here... |
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| 10:05.40 | demo_ | thanks for all the help, and take care! |
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| 10:17.57 | ChrisH | After upgrading to Stretch the KDE/Plasma "Focus follows Mouse" is pretty slow on activating the new window. I tried the different options between click and 'over' in Window actions and behaviour. Delay is set to 0ms (but I did not see any differnece here) Q1: can someone confirm my impression? Q2: Any option/idea to get the fast Deb8 reaction back? |
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| 10:23.39 | ezra-s | ChrisH: I'm just guessing, but X overall may seems slower with debian 9 version, I generally use mate desktop and that one is also sluggish in general compared to version in debian 8, as in, when you open a new window a black window appears first, then the actual content shows up, its a fraction of a second, but still can be easily seen. |
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| 10:29.56 | jak2000 | hi all |
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| 10:30.12 | jak2000 | offtopic question: anyone know a channel for microtik routers? |
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| 10:49.01 | FunkyBob | ok, trying to debug why (a) I can't log in [when using lightdm] and (b) gdm3 can't even start... I just get the "something went wrong! try to log in again!" screen... |
| 10:49.10 | FunkyBob | [even though I've not even logged in with gdm] |
| 10:49.15 | FunkyBob | and... nothing is showing in the logs |
| 10:49.22 | FunkyBob | unless systemd is hiding them somewhere.... |
| 10:49.32 | FunkyBob | where can I look to start seeing what's b0rked? |
| 10:49.38 | nullcollision | journalctl is your friend |
| 10:49.45 | FunkyBob | no... no it isn't |
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| 10:51.12 | FunkyBob | and not just because it won't wrap lines... but because it tells me nothing useful [not that I've found yet] |
| 10:51.13 | gpunk | FunkyBob is your video card setup correctly ? |
| 10:52.19 | FunkyBob | well, it was.... I've reinstalled all the nvidia drivers since this started |
| 10:52.47 | petn-randall | FunkyBob: journalctl just pipes output to your pager, if you have 'less', just type "--ch<enter>" and will wrap text. |
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| 10:52.53 | petn-randall | *it |
| 10:52.58 | FunkyBob | petn-randall: was about to ask ;) |
| 10:53.56 | gpunk | is it a laptop ? |
| 10:54.11 | FunkyBob | "Attaching egress BPF program to cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/unified/system.slice/systemd-logind.service failed: Invalid argument" |
| 10:54.14 | FunkyBob | no |
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| 10:57.04 | gpunk | what s your distro and version ? |
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| 10:57.23 | gpunk | or version , i guess your on debian :) |
| 10:57.32 | FunkyBob | debian testing |
| 10:57.37 | gpunk | ah |
| 10:57.50 | FunkyBob | ok, so I started gdm again, and checked journalctl |
| 10:58.08 | FunkyBob | last lines are "systemd-logind: got pause for 13:.. repeated a few times |
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| 10:59.06 | gpunk | you will have better help at #debian-next on oftc network :) |
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| 10:59.26 | gpunk | or More help I guess |
| 11:00.15 | FunkyBob | :) |
| 11:00.18 | FunkyBob | ok, have asked there |
| 11:00.38 | dumbl3d0re | I've Stretch installed with the default Gnome installation. Tried to install `kde-plasma-desktop` with `sudo apt update; sudo apt install kde-plasma-desktop`; but the computer froze in the middle, suspended automatically, and was able to access it afterwards without anything else. The installation 'finished' but with the error message "W: APT had planned for dpkg to do more than it reported back (1622 vs 2046).[\n] Affected |
| 11:00.38 | dumbl3d0re | packages: [---]". I did |
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| 11:02.09 | dumbl3d0re | I did execute `sudo apt purge kde-plasma-desktop` and `sudo apt autoremove --purge`. When I try to install the package-group again it only lists a handful of packages to install. |
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| 11:02.38 | dumbl3d0re | Was Plasma installed correctly, or has something happened that I've to manually clean up? |
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| 11:03.48 | gpunk | dpkg -l |grep -i plasma |
| 11:03.48 | dpkg | No packages found matching |grep -i plasma |
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| 11:04.16 | gpunk | dumbl3d0re that command is for you |
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| 11:05.32 | petn-randall | dumbl3d0re: If you run 'dpkg --configure -a' and nothing is output, you installation finished successfully. |
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| 11:08.48 | woshty | Are there resources on how aptitude changed from jessie to stretch? |
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| 11:10.31 | anasule | is there anything i can run that will show me what the serial port /dev/ttyS1 control lines (CAR / DSR / CTS / RNG) are doing? |
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| 11:11.37 | dumbl3d0re | gpunk: Some packages with "ii" in the first column. |
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| 11:12.20 | dumbl3d0re | petn-randall: No packages is listed when I execute the command with sudo. |
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| 11:14.35 | petn-randall | dumbl3d0re: Then the installation went through cleanly. |
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| 11:15.48 | gpunk | there is no kde-plasma-desktop ? |
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| 11:16.34 | gpunk | then you removed it |
| 11:17.01 | tdn | What is an appropriate way to have a service start up delayed in Debian 9? I have an NFS server that serves shares from a mountpoint that is not available immediately after boot. The mount point becomes available after a few minutes (needs to run a script that does some remote interaction first). This causes my NFS server to be unavailable after a reboot. |
| 11:17.19 | dumbl3d0re | petn-randall, gpunk: Thanks for the help! :D |
| 11:17.42 | tdn | How can I make nfs-kernel-server start after a few minutes intead? Or should I rather disable autostart and then have my mount-script start nfs-kernel-server service instead? |
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| 11:19.31 | gpunk | have your mount-script start nfs-kernel-server service instead |
| 11:19.49 | gpunk | because it can fail / be more late anyway |
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| 11:22.17 | zamuro | !debain |
| 11:22.18 | dpkg | i guess debain is often a typo of Debian. |
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| 11:24.33 | tdn | OK |
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| 11:26.50 | petn-randall | tdn: You can simply change the systemd unit file for it to depend on whatever service needs to finish running first. |
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| 11:27.55 | tdn | petn-randall, but that requires that my mount script is a systemd service, right? |
| 11:28.14 | rafalcpp | computer hands for 80 seconds after "switched to clocksource tsc", when a new NIC device is plugged in to pci-express. any idea how to poke/debug/fix? |
| 11:28.26 | rafalcpp | also the device does not work anyway. maybe some bios settings, or kernel cmd line? |
| 11:28.33 | petn-randall | tdn: In this case you'd create a file called /etc/systemd/system/nfs-kernel-server.service.d/override.conf (assuming the service is called "nfs-kernel-server.service", and add some Dependency parameter there (I'd look it up in the unit docs). Yes, it would need to be a service of some kind. |
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| 11:29.02 | tdn | petn-randall, ok |
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| 11:29.18 | petn-randall | tdn: But also that is fairly simple. Just put /etc/systemd/system/yourcustomscript.conf, with ExecOnce=/path/to/script and also some dependencies. |
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| 11:30.47 | tdn | petn-randall, ok. Will try that. Thanks |
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| 11:52.14 | mrtnt | I have a following systemd service file: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/a3899e89 I have specified SIGKILL as a KillSignal. However, when I execute "systemctl stop ipsec", then pluto process is not immediately killed. On the other hand, if I execute "kill -9 <pluto_pid>", then it will be killed with no delay. Is the "KillSignal" ignored in my service file for some reason? |
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| 12:00.12 | mrtnt | I commented out "ExecStop" and now it works as I expected. |
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| 12:13.24 | Orbstheorem | Hi, I'm trying to debootstrap a minimal system without systemd but runit instead, but then debootstap quits and I can't figure out what went wrong. My target directory ends up empty. Log: https://paste.gnugen.ch/raw/Xv9I |
| 12:14.18 | Orbstheorem | ignore me, wrong directory target >< |
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| 12:23.34 | moldy | hi |
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| 12:39.14 | Droid2Debian | Debian/ GNU linux kicks redmonds ass |
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| 12:39.49 | hiya | Droid2Debian: What do you mean? |
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| 12:47.51 | petn-randall | hiya: Redmond is the area where Microsoft HQ is, meaning Windows. |
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| 12:49.05 | hiya | petn-randall: ok |
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| 13:10.25 | no_gravity | When I do "mtr <ip_of_another_computer_in_the_lan>" I only see that computer in the output, not the router. Why that? |
| 13:10.48 | petemc | no_gravity: because connections in the same subnet are direct, not via router |
| 13:11.17 | no_gravity | petemc: The packet goes directly to the other computer without passing through the router? |
| 13:11.58 | petemc | well, if the "router" is also the switch, it will pass through that, but it is not routed |
| 13:12.02 | no_gravity | With "router" I mean that wifi thing both computers are connected to. |
| 13:12.14 | petemc | yes |
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| 13:12.46 | no_gravity | I try to figure out why vim via ssh is sluggy. |
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| 13:12.56 | no_gravity | So I would like to see if packet loss is happening somewhere. |
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| 13:14.11 | no_gravity | The strange thing is, both show no packet loss between the machine and the router. |
| 13:14.15 | no_gravity | But there is packet loss between the machines. |
| 13:14.20 | no_gravity | How can that be? |
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| 13:15.43 | no_gravity | Oh, I also see packet loss to the router. |
| 13:16.11 | no_gravity | So why am I seeing packet loss between a computer and a router that are like 2m apart? |
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| 13:16.56 | SwedeMike | no_gravity: are these gigabit ethernet interfaces? Have you checked the errors counters on the interfaces? |
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| 13:17.32 | no_gravity | SwedeMike: No idea. How do I check? |
| 13:17.34 | SwedeMike | no_gravity: "ifconfig eth0" (or whatever the interface is) will show RX/TX errors etc |
| 13:17.51 | no_gravity | Looks like only one of the machines has packet loss to the router. |
| 13:18.35 | no_gravity | RX packets:40915 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 |
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| 13:18.42 | no_gravity | TX packets:32422 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 |
| 13:18.50 | no_gravity | collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 |
| 13:18.54 | SwedeMike | is this cabled or wifi? |
| 13:18.57 | no_gravity | wifi |
| 13:19.02 | no_gravity | wlan0 |
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| 13:20.20 | SwedeMike | no_gravity: is the router running vendor provided firmware? |
| 13:20.34 | no_gravity | SwedeMike: I think so. |
| 13:21.30 | no_gravity | Maybe the "wifi usb stick" on the machine with the packet loss just sucks. |
| 13:22.12 | SwedeMike | no_gravity: either that or driver issue, yes. |
| 13:22.27 | no_gravity | I will try some other ones when I get around it it. |
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| 13:31.08 | bsdnoob | guys |
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| 13:31.27 | bsdnoob | 4.13 kernel makes my wifi unstable |
| 13:31.37 | bsdnoob | I am using ath10k_pci |
| 13:32.12 | bsdnoob | whenever I disconnect from an AP system goes into this strange state where I cannot run any command |
| 13:32.13 | babilen | bsdnoob: Report a bug and use 4.12 ? |
| 13:32.21 | bsdnoob | I cannot gracefully reboot and so on |
| 13:32.27 | bsdnoob | babilen, yes |
| 13:32.34 | bsdnoob | I am using 4.12 for now |
| 13:32.42 | bsdnoob | babilen, where do I file a bug? |
| 13:32.59 | babilen | https://wiki.debian.org/reportbug |
| 13:33.24 | babilen | You might also be interesting in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net where we support testing and unstable |
| 13:33.25 | bsdnoob | babilen, thanks |
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| 13:38.18 | BLZbubba | hi guys, i'm using jessie and it looks like my rpcbind process is defunct. is there any way to clear it out? |
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| 13:39.14 | BLZbubba | i have a process going on it that will take a few days; so I'm hoping that I won't have to reboot |
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| 13:39.34 | petn-randall | BLZbubba: How do you know its defunct? |
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| 13:41.36 | BLZbubba | [rpcbind] <defunct> |
| 13:42.01 | petn-randall | BLZbubba: What does 'systemctl status rpcbind' give you? |
| 13:42.10 | BLZbubba | it thinks everything is normal |
| 13:42.23 | BLZbubba | well i am in sysvinit mode |
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| 13:43.00 | BLZbubba | so /etc/init.d/rpcbind status thinks everything is normal |
| 13:43.11 | BLZbubba | i can start an rpcbind by hand and it seems ok |
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| 13:44.14 | petn-randall | BLZbubba: <defunct> just means that it's a parent process waiting for the child process to exit, so this isn't anything unusual. If the service is reachable, there's nothing much needed to do. |
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| 13:52.03 | jeroenpraat | Using Debian 8: How do I use cgroup (or any other method) to limit the number of processes a user can run *at the same time* ? The only thing I can find is how to limit a single process. But I want to avoid this user to run to many processes at the same time. It are all single processes that are not spawned from another process (parent ID=1). |
| 13:53.56 | jeroenpraat | > I know how to to limit memory with cgroup, but somehow this memory limit is per process, not for all the users proccesses |
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| 13:55.13 | Zorix2 | Hi guys, i have been testing debian a bit in VM.. one of the things I have noticed using the debian testing iso is that it doesn't install all of the repos in the sources.list, just the security ones.. is this intended or a bug? |
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| 13:55.38 | petn-randall | !testing installer |
| 13:55.38 | dpkg | Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 13:55.50 | Zorix2 | I did see that in the wiki yes |
| 13:56.02 | Zorix2 | I have both 9.2 and testing iso and I was just comparing |
| 13:56.42 | Zorix2 | I'm not familiar with debian enough to know if this is intended behavior or a bug |
| 13:56.52 | petn-randall | Zorix2: IIRC this bug can happen if you fail to set up networking (my recollection of it is hazy, sorry). |
| 13:57.17 | jeroenpraat | !cgroup |
| 13:57.22 | petn-randall | Zorix2: Did you still have a cdrom line, though? |
| 13:57.23 | jeroenpraat | Oh well.. |
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| 13:57.39 | awal1 | any utility for compare sha256sums and such stuff in general? |
| 13:57.41 | Zorix2 | Oh I see.. yea the installer never asked about networking other than hostname and domain, it does contain the cdrom line though, yes |
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| 13:59.20 | petn-randall | Zorix2: In this case it does the best it can. For an offline machine it would make sense to have the usual sources, as any 'apt update' would fail to retrieve the list. I didn't look into the rationale of this, so I don't know if I'm correct with my assumption or if it's actually a bug. |
| 13:59.43 | iwkse | hi, anyone using bitcoind on sid? seems like leveldb 1.20-1 makes it to segfault |
| 14:00.00 | Zorix2 | petn-randall: alright, fair enough. I appreciate the explanation |
| 14:00.12 | petn-randall | *wouldn't |
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| 14:00.35 | petn-randall | Zorix2: Rest assured, if you having working network during install it will create a valid sources.list. |
| 14:00.45 | petn-randall | (with the 3 usual deb lines.) |
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| 14:00.57 | Zorix2 | petn-randall: I wonder why it doesn't consider my network working when it works after the install... strange |
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| 14:01.07 | tw | awal1: sha256sums -c? |
| 14:01.17 | Zorix2 | The debian 9.2 installer produces the correct deb lines |
| 14:01.34 | petn-randall | Zorix2: Did you maybe skip those step in the testing installer? |
| 14:01.59 | Zorix2 | I did test it a few times when I was playing with the different DEs, I did the same exact steps each time |
| 14:02.43 | Zorix2 | 9.2 consistently produced a correct sources.list while the testing one did not |
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| 14:04.20 | awal1 | tw, oh, I missed that , thanks. My question was almost about a gui utility but since sha256sum utility can do that yet all fine so; no gui needed :) |
| 14:04.46 | Zorix2 | petn-randall: I wonder if it's something to do with the way it handles Virtualbox |
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| 14:05.41 | tw | awal1: all of those <HASHALG>sum utilities have approximately the same cli options, which is pretty convenient. |
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| 14:08.11 | Zorix2 | I should test it some more with the curses based installer instead, see if it's something that happens only on the graphical installer |
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| 14:08.36 | awal1 | tw, I am noticing that yeah; I rarely compare such stuff; good to know ;) |
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| 14:12.30 | Zorix2 | petn-randall: alright I just installed 9.2 stable again and now it happens there too, very strange.. |
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| 14:40.22 | gpunk | what happends ? |
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| 15:07.03 | GNU\colossus | is there a tool that can sync all content of a carddav/caldav-account to another? |
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| 15:17.05 | gpunk | you can with a client "download" one account |
| 15:17.13 | gpunk | then "upload" to another one |
| 15:17.57 | gpunk | try it with evolution for example |
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| 15:43.48 | lappet | hi there, something showed while doing apt-get update. First time saw this. link: https://pastebin.com/KQDr898k |
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| 15:45.42 | iwkse | lappet: clear /var/lib/apt/lists/ and run again apt-get update |
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| 15:46.39 | lappet | still got that warning |
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| 15:47.39 | shtrb | I was getting the same from ftp.uk , wait , clear and update |
| 15:47.53 | petn-randall | lappet: Might be that the mirror near you is only partially synced. I'm sure some warnings popped up at the security archive admins, and their fixing this. If this still happens in half a day, I'd ping them in #debian-security on OFTC. |
| 15:48.06 | petn-randall | s/their/they're/ |
| 15:48.12 | iwkse | lappet: try to apt-get clean && apt-get update |
| 15:48.23 | lappet | iwkse and petn-randall : thank you |
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| 16:36.58 | Demos_ | how high quality are CPack's debs? |
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| 16:37.49 | petn-randall | Demos_: Who is CPack? |
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| 16:38.10 | Demos_ | CMakes thingy that can generate packages |
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| 16:38.50 | FinalX | we don't do anything with CPack, it's not a Debian thing, so no idea |
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| 17:21.56 | galex-713 | Hi, is reportbug only for testing? |
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| 17:48.36 | annadane | galex-713, no |
| 17:48.41 | annadane | reportbug is for any release |
| 17:49.22 | annadane | that said, it does happen sometimes that someone reports a bug in testing only to be told it's already been fixed in sid |
| 17:49.33 | galex-713 | and what about stable? |
| 17:49.51 | annadane | stable is fine |
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| 17:50.10 | galex-713 | Iâm under stable, and reportbug says me my package is out of date because thereâs a newer version in testing and ask me to confirm if I want to report a bug |
| 17:50.13 | galex-713 | Should I? |
| 17:50.35 | galex-713 | Does that mean I should find somewhere where to install testing first and see if I still have the same bug? |
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| 17:51.09 | annadane | uhh |
| 17:51.29 | annadane | you know, that's actually a good question. i'l let somebody else answer |
| 17:51.39 | galex-713 | :/ |
| 17:51.59 | shtrb | What package and what need to be tested ? |
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| 17:52.48 | galex-713 | annadane, also, if I encounter a problem, not knowing why something stopped working (hardware, software) but I know one or two package it could be related to, or those community could know how to know more about my problem, should I mail debian-users, debian-maintainers of these softwares, report a bug, or send a mail to the original devs? |
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| 17:52.55 | galex-713 | modemmanager and modem-manager-gui |
| 17:53.05 | galex-713 | well actually some weeks ago I completely stopped receiving smses |
| 17:53.08 | galex-713 | I still can send some |
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| 17:53.11 | galex-713 | but I canât receive any |
| 17:53.18 | galex-713 | if I put my sim card in any other phone that works |
| 17:53.23 | galex-713 | but not anymore in my computer |
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| 17:53.50 | annadane | in theory you can ask support channels like this one what to file the bug under, and, yes, describing the package and problem you're having with it like you're doing is a good idea |
| 17:53.58 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713: One solution would be to take a look at the changelog for the testing package and look for references to your problem. |
| 17:54.06 | annadane | it may not be a bug, for instance |
| 17:54.18 | galex-713 | jhutchins_wk, how to do that? |
| 17:54.33 | annadane | apt changelog modemmanager etc |
| 17:54.34 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713: Actually testing the newere software would be nice of you, but it's still reasonable to report the bug, as the older version could be patched. |
| 17:54.35 | galex-713 | annadane, yeah, maybe some hidden settings, or maybe thatâs the hardware fault, maybe my modem is broken :/ |
| 17:54.38 | annadane | wait, no |
| 17:54.43 | annadane | that's if you already have testing, sorry |
| 17:54.47 | shtrb | galex-713 modemmanger + what phone ? I didn't have SMS working for ages (and on sid ) |
| 17:54.58 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713: Also be sure to search the BTS for similar bugreports that may have been addressed. |
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| 17:55.11 | annadane | jhutchins_wk, that's what i thought, didn't want to spread wrong information though |
| 17:55.18 | strive | Best Debian-based distro other than Ubuntu? |
| 17:55.26 | jhutchins_wk | strive: Debian. |
| 17:55.30 | strive | jhutchins_wk: Sold. |
| 17:55.33 | shtrb | strive , Debian potato |
| 17:55.35 | galex-713 | shtrb, no phone except my own computer, I have a Thinkpad X220 with an internal usb sierra modem and a sim card port under the battery and could send/receive smses for a while until the problem occured |
| 17:55.48 | annadane | best is subjective. i guess most people would probably say mint (people have had issues with ubuntu's policy) |
| 17:56.05 | strive | annadane: You're right. I should've rephrased that. |
| 17:56.08 | galex-713 | mint policy is between ubuntu and debian |
| 17:56.10 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713: I'd definitely post to the user mailing list (not the maintainer). |
| 17:56.14 | shtrb | If that is like the internal sim slots (builtin) they also need a kernel module |
| 17:56.17 | galex-713 | itâs not as commercial than ubuntu, but not free like debian |
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| 17:56.38 | galex-713 | shtrb, yeah, which is free, and worked out of the box after having installed debian |
| 17:56.39 | annadane | but, yes, definitely recommend debian to anyone |
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| 17:56.49 | annadane | it's pretty much one of the best |
| 17:57.00 | shtrb | galex-713 file the bug and add if you can what modem options does work (like location data ) |
| 17:57.11 | strive | annadane: I'll give Debian a go. |
| 17:57.33 | galex-713 | shtrb, location never worked, or not well, or depending on the mobile network, only smses receiving stopped to work |
| 17:57.37 | galex-713 | and I can still send smses |
| 17:57.38 | galex-713 | and call people |
| 17:57.41 | galex-713 | and being called |
| 17:57.45 | shtrb | galex-713 have you upgraded the kernel recently ? |
| 17:57.58 | shtrb | over that modem ? |
| 17:58.02 | galex-713 | shtrb, not sure⦠donât think so but I could have forgot as well⦠|
| 17:58.03 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713: You might check with your provider. |
| 17:58.14 | shtrb | are you sure the SMSC number didn't change ? |
| 17:58.24 | galex-713 | jhutchins_wk, I still receive them if I put my sim card in another phone, so itâs because of my computer/system |
| 17:58.32 | galex-713 | shtrb, the smsc number? |
| 17:58.50 | galex-713 | shtrb, is there a way to check what has been upgraded recently? |
| 17:58.52 | galex-713 | some log? |
| 17:59.09 | shtrb | galex-713 , not able to get an SMS (when you can make calls ) can be caused if you have a block on the network level (something with your account / sim card) or the hardcoded phonenumber is incorrect |
| 17:59.35 | shtrb | galex-713 , if there would have a change you are expected to receive a special message |
| 17:59.46 | shtrb | check if OTHER sim card (prepaid ) is able to send / and get SMS |
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| 18:00.31 | galex-713 | shtrb, ok Iâll do, I donât have another one on me currently but Iâll try soon, with a friend sim card I think |
| 18:01.11 | shtrb | any sim card (same band as yours ) that has an option to send /receive SMS would be ok |
| 18:01.14 | galex-713 | yet I recall I can still send smses, and I can receive smses with other phones with that same sim card whenever I insert that sim card in another device |
| 18:01.52 | galex-713 | shtrb, I donât have any, and also the procedure to get one is afaik a bit more complicated in France since State of urgency |
| 18:02.02 | shtrb | does the modem initated with some kind of a script ? |
| 18:02.05 | galex-713 | Iâll try a friend one, that should do right? |
| 18:02.26 | galex-713 | shtrb, normally at boot a window ask-me pin-code, and Iâm under KDE |
| 18:02.28 | shtrb | state of emergency ? what happen now ? |
| 18:02.32 | galex-713 | and KDE starts network-manager |
| 18:02.34 | *** part/#debian hsarc (~hsarc4@r190-133-247-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 18:02.40 | galex-713 | which use modemmanager to connect to internet using 3G |
| 18:02.46 | galex-713 | so it switch on the modem |
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| 18:03.15 | galex-713 | shtrb, now? nothing, itâs some years ago there was a terrorist attack, they killed people, and weâre going to have the state of emergency for some years now |
| 18:03.40 | shtrb | France ?! |
| 18:04.15 | shtrb | based from memory , you can enable extra logging and try to use memcli to get additional infromation |
| 18:04.22 | shtrb | but that would work only when modem not in use |
| 18:05.06 | shtrb | Oh and clear your stored SMS (make sure you have empty space on that sim card) |
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| 18:06.33 | galex-713_ | sorry, my wifi usb dongle tends to stop working (with stuff like ânetwork unreachableâ or âcache size oversomethingâ) after a while of usage |
| 18:06.35 | galex-713_ | back to 3G |
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| 18:06.41 | galex-713_ | so I was saying |
| 18:06.53 | galex-713_ | *answering |
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| 18:07.01 | galex-713_ | <galex-713> shtrb, now? nothing, itâs some years ago there was a terrorist attack, they killed people, and weâre going to have the state of emergency for some years now |
| 18:07.01 | galex-713_ | <galex-713> We already have some âtemporary anti-terrorist planâ since 90's, so I think this âemergency stateâ is going to stay, most people (and medias and politicants too) do |
| 18:07.13 | galex-713_ | it is especially useful for the government to arbitrarily censor stuff, jail people, enter peopleâs house, track in their (including internet) stuff, surveillance and forbidding protests/etc. for no reasons |
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| 18:07.43 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713: That's really not topical for #debian. |
| 18:07.43 | shtrb | ok .. |
| 18:07.58 | shtrb | back to the topic , make sure you have enough space on sim card memory |
| 18:08.02 | galex-713_ | shtrb, anyway nothing that complicated, like it takes more time, plus an id card (Iâve lost mine, but maybe my passport will be enough, yet itâs not French so maybe not), plus something else I forgot to get a prepaid sim card |
| 18:08.11 | galex-713_ | oh |
| 18:08.14 | galex-713_ | how can I do that? |
| 18:08.21 | shtrb | and use memcli for command line |
| 18:08.41 | galex-713_ | I thought modem-manager-gui did store everything in .local/share/modem-manager-gui/<device-code>/sms.gdbm |
| 18:08.47 | shtrb | *mmcli |
| 18:08.51 | galex-713_ | I tried to use mmcli to send myself smses |
| 18:08.56 | galex-713_ | and I donât receive them |
| 18:09.11 | shtrb | I think the simcard store information on itself aswell |
| 18:09.42 | galex-713_ | maybe killing modem-manager-gui and launching xgnokii? |
| 18:10.12 | jhutchins_wk | !changelog |
| 18:10.12 | dpkg | The Debian changelog for foo can be found in /usr/share/doc/foo/ if foo is installed. From a .deb, "apt-listchanges -a foo.deb" or "dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile foo.deb| tar --wildcards -xOf - '*changelog.Debian.gz'|zless". You can also "aptitude changelog foo" or go to http://changelogs.debian.net/bar if foo is built from source package bar. See also <apt-listchanges>. |
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| 18:11.01 | galex-713_ | jhutchins_wk, so should I look for changelogs of current stable version also? I mean rather one the changes that have been made in the testing one? |
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| 18:11.46 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713_: I would say both, but the idea is to see if it's addressed in the testing version, and if not, note that in a report for the stable version. |
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| 18:12.14 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713_: If it is addressed, that's something that might need to be patched/backported to stable. |
| 18:12.22 | galex-713_ | ok nothing new except the new upstream release on modemmanager in testing |
| 18:13.13 | galex-713_ | modem-manager-gui has the exact same version |
| 18:13.23 | galex-713_ | so only modemmanager is new |
| 18:13.43 | galex-713_ | now letâs see bugs for modemmanager |
| 18:14.32 | galex-713_ | oh damn, xgnokii doesnât want to start except if I disable the modem |
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| 18:14.37 | shtrb | galex_713_ , i think you will need to do mmcli -m --list-messages and then mmcli -m --messagin-delete-sms |
| 18:14.37 | galex-713_ | need to switch on wifi again |
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| 18:14.58 | shtrb | or to plug the sim into a mobile phone and manually erase it with the phone |
| 18:15.15 | galex-713_ | shtrb, mmcli -m <n> --list-messages is cleared out after each modem restart (reboot or suspend), and each time the modem starts, I see 5 void smses |
| 18:15.31 | galex-713_ | from âunknownâ number |
| 18:15.59 | shtrb | can you try to plug it into a phone and erase some messages (if they are there ) ? |
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| 18:23.53 | strive | I'm interestd in downloading and installing Debian. How do I go about knowing if modules for "ath9k_htc" are on the CD or DVD install discs? |
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| 18:25.48 | annadane | you'd need the non-free firmware image |
| 18:25.58 | annadane | and i don't even remember where to find that |
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| 18:26.54 | strive | Got it: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ |
| 18:27.02 | strive | thank you annadane :) |
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| 18:28.20 | galex-713__ | annadane, shtrb oh damn you were right |
| 18:28.26 | galex-713__ | Iâm receiving a tooooon of smses |
| 18:28.31 | shtrb | :) |
| 18:28.38 | galex-713__ | after having erased sim smses with wammu |
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| 18:29.04 | galex-713__ | damn, so it means modem-manager-gui doesnât erase smses |
| 18:29.16 | shtrb | file a bug |
| 18:29.29 | shtrb | !next |
| 18:29.29 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 18:29.34 | galex-713__ | ah yeah now I have a reason and relevant information to fill a bug x) |
| 18:29.44 | jhutchins_wk | galex-713__: I would think you would want manual controll over erasing mesages. There are some I want to keep. |
| 18:29.53 | galex-713__ | also during the process I found two bugs for modem-manager-gui that I currently experience |
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| 18:30.26 | shtrb | but I think your modem should support location |
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| 18:30.46 | shtrb | That and USSD |
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| 18:34.20 | galex-713_ | <galex-713__> jhutchins_wk, I was thinking more âif I modem-manager-gui receive an sms and stores it in gdbm, remove it from sim cardâ |
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| 18:34.51 | galex-713_ | shtrb, how can I participate in a bug thread? like answer under some given bug âhey I have the same bug, how is it going?â |
| 18:35.46 | shtrb | send an email to the bug |
| 18:36.12 | galex-713 | ? |
| 18:36.14 | galex-713 | looks |
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| 18:36.40 | galex-713 | Oh just noticed it! |
| 18:36.47 | galex-713 | Ok each bug has a mail address |
| 18:36.49 | galex-713 | strange but ok |
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| 18:39.14 | Elirips | Hello. By chance any ideas what ip dhcpc5 will use as fallback for a client, if it fails to get one? I think its something like 169.x.x.x - but what exactly? |
| 18:40.32 | mutante | Elirips: something in the network 169.254.0.0/16 but typicall a Windows thing |
| 18:40.51 | shtrb | 169 is non addressable , standard thing |
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| 18:41.32 | mutante | https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3927 (Windows calls it APIPA) |
| 18:42.02 | Elirips | hm, I missconfigured a box, now it does not get an ip.. |
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| 18:42.27 | Elirips | i hoped that i can somehow detect the 169.254 ip it should have, to avoid having to attach a monitor, keyboard and so on |
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| 18:42.45 | mutante | Elirips: it's "pseudo-random" using the MAC address as seed to pick one specific IP |
| 18:43.13 | Elirips | mutante: thanks, then I will try to find it with nmap |
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| 18:49.43 | hum77 | hi, i am running debian lxde on a vbox on a linux host, after i connect my openvpn, my dns not work right. how can i tell openvpn to use 127.0.0.1:53, or force it globally so nothing can change it or use other dns server? |
| 18:50.26 | jhutchins_wk | Elirips: If you have access to the dhcp logs you might be able to find it there. |
| 18:51.24 | Elirips | jhutchins_wk: it fails to get a dhcp ip. something is messed up, i dont have eth0, but enx{....} as hardware |
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| 18:51.48 | Elirips | and I configured eth0 for a static ip, what fails, and enx{...} then falls back to some 169.254.x.x |
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| 18:54.14 | JordiGH | I'm learning Japanese and I'm wondering, how do I type it? |
| 18:54.23 | JordiGH | Is there an input method? |
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| 18:57.17 | imMute | so I'm trying to use clang++ 5.0 and libc++ on Debian 8, but whenever I try to use std::unordered_map I get error messages like this: /usr/include/c++/v1/__hash_table:1169:43: error: conflicting types for '__hash_table<_Tp, _Hash, _Equal, _Alloc>' what's going on here? |
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| 19:00.42 | JordiGH | Aha: https://wiki.debian.org/JapaneseEnvironmentE |
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| 19:02.52 | foul_owl | Hi folks. Really weird issue, all the fonts in save dialogs and menus are really large. Suddenly happened. Debian 9, install less than two weeks old. Thanks! |
| 19:02.59 | foul_owl | fluxbox is my wm |
| 19:03.27 | foul_owl | smplayer, for example, the menu font seems like size 96 or so, all my applications are unusable |
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| 19:04.47 | tdn | I see a lot of these messages in the syslog: 2017-10-13T01:00:05.278541+02:00 fer systemd[1]: user@500.service: Killing process 6936 (kill) with signal SIGKILL. |
| 19:05.00 | tdn | What causes this? Should I ignore them in my logwatch filter? |
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| 19:06.21 | galex-713 | jhutchins_wk, shtrb : I know I can check if my modem rings, and make phones ring, but I donât know if I can make/receive phone calls, with sound/etc. and how, where should I ask? here? debian users? bug report? send the maintainer a mail? send the dev a mail? modemmanager or modem-manager-gui? |
| 19:06.42 | galex-713 | also, is there something like bugreport for feature requests? is it better to contact directly upstream dev for feature requests? |
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| 19:07.21 | shtrb | sorry was afk |
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| 19:07.58 | shtrb | you can report bugs for requests , not all modems can physically accept calls / make calls |
| 19:08.07 | shtrb | you can check that with AT commands (check for minicom ) |
| 19:08.16 | mutante | galex-713: i believe "bug report for requests" = "enhancement" in the bug report tool |
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| 19:09.00 | galex-713 | shtrb, I can make phone rings and check if mine rings, does that mean I can? |
| 19:09.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1747] by debhelper |
| 19:09.10 | shtrb | galex-713 , minicom + read about AT commands + check if your modem have some way to get audio |
| 19:09.34 | galex-713 | how can I know if my modem have some way to get audio? |
| 19:09.49 | shtrb | I do not understand what you mean , if using software you can create a call and hangup (ATH;) you can make calls (not meaning you can transfer sound) |
| 19:09.50 | *** join/#debian pkv (~pkv@2a01:e35:2f23:7fc0:f649:fb8e:1ee4:47c6) |
| 19:10.16 | shtrb | Google , and checking the modem docs |
| 19:10.17 | shtrb | sorry |
| 19:10.33 | galex-713 | shtrb, ok, then I can make calls |
| 19:10.52 | galex-713 | shtrb, how do you transfer sound normally? with which software? |
| 19:11.00 | galex-713 | Iâm not (yet) a developer |
| 19:11.12 | galex-713 | not even sure to be able to find my modem docs, understand and implement them |
| 19:11.28 | shtrb | galex-713 two cables plugged in |
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| 19:12.11 | shtrb | Sound card out to modem input and sound card in to modem out |
| 19:12.37 | galex-713 | you mean I should open the computer? |
| 19:12.59 | shtrb | if your modem doesn't have that physical interface , maybe there is software one |
| 19:13.24 | shtrb | but I have no idea even what modem you have, one built in modem I had couldn't make or get calls at all |
| 19:13.25 | th0r | I doubt that would work. The modem usually does not have an audio (analog voice) path internally. You would have to digitize the voice on the computer and then send it out as data |
| 19:13.28 | galex-713 | I mean, how do you transfer file normally on software layer? is there some file in /dev? or when I make a call my headphones/speaker+micro should automatically do the stuff (it doesnât)? |
| 19:14.13 | galex-713 | shtrb, sierra, as I said |
| 19:14.46 | shtrb | lspci / lsusb etc |
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| 19:15.37 | shtrb | and !paste |
| 19:15.39 | galex-713 | to be precise, Sierra Wireless Inc Sierra Wireless MC8355 - Gobi 3000(TM) Module Version: D3200-STSUGN-1575 1 [Nov 22 2010 9:0:0] Port:cdc-wdm0 Type:GSM |
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| 19:15.49 | shtrb | now we are talking |
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| 19:17.11 | galex-713 | <galex-713> shtrb, sierra, as I said |
| 19:17.11 | galex-713 | <galex-713> to be precise, Sierra Wireless Inc Sierra Wireless MC8355 - Gobi 3000(TM) Module Version: D3200-STSUGN-1575 1 [Nov 22 2010 9:0:0] Port:cdc-wdm0 Type:GSM |
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| 19:17.25 | shtrb | seen |
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| 19:17.52 | galex-713 | th0r, do you mean itâs impossible it would work and my modem probably can only make phones ring/ring but without transferring any audio? |
| 19:18.26 | shtrb | it may support updated features , where you could just send traffic as RTP (but I could be talking out of my ass here ) |
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| 19:19.56 | galex-713 | shtrb, anyway, is there any place where I could ask the question to more experienced people? |
| 19:20.14 | shtrb | debian users would be a good start |
| 19:20.18 | shtrb | maybe also at ##networking |
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| 19:22.07 | cVsup | I have two wan interfaces. One is configured with static ip and the other gets ip by dhcp. in the ip route rt_table file I have two tables wan1 and wan2. I created a script inside the dhclient-exit-hooks directory that creates the routing within these tables, but when I restart the server and it gets ip by dhcp it removes the entries in these tables. |
| 19:22.22 | shtrb | I think that's an artificat that you are able to make calls this device is declared as a DATA device |
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| 19:22.58 | somiaj | cVsup: what do you use to bring up/down your interfaces? |
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| 19:23.26 | aloo_shu | galex-713: android chan may be worth a try, android is linux based and uses gsm, so loosely related |
| 19:23.55 | aloo_shu | at least to learn concepts |
| 19:24.15 | cVsup | somiaj: use debian and configure in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 19:24.41 | jhutchins_wk | Is digicert not in the standard CA stack? |
| 19:24.57 | jhutchins_wk | I get an error from lynx, but not from chrome on W10. |
| 19:25.07 | somiaj | cVsup: if using the interfaces file, why not just use the post-up script of the interface file to set the routes over dhclient hooks. This may be more efficent. |
| 19:25.22 | jhutchins_wk | https://www.texaswideopenforveterans.com |
| 19:25.35 | galex-713 | aloo_shu, is that a lot to learn? also android is a whole different OS, it doesnât have network-manager/modemmanager/etc. so the ecosystem being completely different it might not be that useful I guess :/ |
| 19:25.59 | somiaj | jhutchins_wk: did lynx ever update after that ssl issue a year or so ago? I don't use lynx, so unsure about that. |
| 19:26.23 | somiaj | jhutchins_wk: but here on jessie, I get an error with that site, SSL error:the certificate has no known issuer-Continue? |
| 19:26.26 | cVsup | somiaj: i need dhclient hooks for leases, reboots etc |
| 19:26.56 | somiaj | cVsup: sure, but for the routing, it maybe better to do this with a postup script in the interfaces file that is run after the interfaces is fully up. |
| 19:27.26 | cVsup | somiaj: I do not know why it cleans the table routes |
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| 19:27.46 | somiaj | cVsup: I'm unsure if the reason it isn't working after a reboot is some race condition, so suggesting an alternatve that may work. I don't know dhclient well enough to say why it isn't working. |
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| 19:28.16 | aloo_shu | galex-713: my knowledge is also vague, but it could be a place to find out if whenever you have a gsm modem connection, you automatically have audio, too, in principle - or not. To pinpoint *what* it is that is missing. |
| 19:28.16 | somiaj | cVsup: most likely is doing that to ensure it gets the routes set correctly from the dhcp response, though this is only a guess. |
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| 19:28.52 | galex-713_ | ok |
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| 19:29.23 | kb3ien | I was here about a fortnight ago with issues related to apt-cd in debian. |
| 19:30.05 | cVsup | somiaj: check this https://pastebin.com/tm9Vf1ks |
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| 19:31.02 | cVsup | somiaj: this happens only if I restart the server. If running dhclient interface it works normally. |
| 19:31.18 | kb3ien | apt-get was asking me to insert a CD into the device that the CD is not installed in. apt-cd was clearly told the path. |
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| 19:31.24 | kb3ien | Anyone use apt-cd ? |
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| 19:31.58 | sleepyhead | hi can you dist upgrade an openvz vps from 7 to 9 or is that not going to work? |
| 19:32.12 | shtrb | aloo_shu , having audio channel in the protocol doesn't mean the modem have that option or expose it (the device is declared as EVDO (data modem ) |
| 19:32.16 | annadane | kb3ien, do you have internet access with which to upgrade your machine? if so you don't need the cd line in your sources list |
| 19:32.48 | somiaj | sleepyhead: two issues. One you cannot upgrade directly from 7 to 9, you have to go through 8. Second in openvz you are using the host kernel and various other aspects of the host which may not be compadable with newer versions of debian. |
| 19:33.04 | shtrb | assuming I checked the correct modem |
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| 19:33.25 | sleepyhead | somiaj: hmm. ok i guess i'll have to stick with 7 for now. |
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| 19:33.35 | sleepyhead | somiaj: how long is 7 supported? |
| 19:33.43 | somiaj | cVsup: sounds like a race thing. If you remove the auto eth2 line so it isn't brought up at boot (only the static one) and then maully bring it up after boto with ifup eth2, does it work? |
| 19:33.58 | somiaj | sleepyhead: lts will be supported for another year I belive. |
| 19:34.00 | somiaj | !wheezy-lts |
| 19:34.00 | dpkg | Security support for Debian 7 "Wheezy" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2016-04-25. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures receive additional long term support (LTS) via <wheezy/updates> until 2018-05-31. See http://deb.li/2aC for excluded packages. No changes to /etc/apt/sources.list are needed for wheezy-lts. |
| 19:34.19 | somiaj | sleepyhead: next summer is when the lts team will stop providing security support for server side stuff in wheezy-lts |
| 19:34.24 | aloo_shu | shtrb ah-ha, learned something. are you saying galex' device is declared as evdo, or were you giving an example? |
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| 19:34.43 | sleepyhead | somiaj: thanks |
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| 19:35.06 | shtrb | If my google result is correct , his device is declared as EVDO ( I may be wrong ) |
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| 19:35.46 | kb3ien | annadane, the issue wasn't MY bandwidth. This is not a normal use-case. I could do a full mirror if APT-CD isn't really up to snuff. |
| 19:36.03 | cVsup | somiaj: I'll try |
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| 19:36.19 | galex-713_ | Hi |
| 19:36.24 | galex-713_ | I want to report a bug with reportbug |
| 19:36.35 | shtrb | reportbug from command line |
| 19:36.40 | galex-713_ | yes |
| 19:36.46 | somiaj | cVsup: also check if it only works when you run dhclient, vs ifup, if so there is the issue, at boot ifup -a (all auto interfaces) is what is run. |
| 19:36.48 | galex-713_ | that bug is that whenever I try to report a bug with reportbug, I canât, because it crashes |
| 19:36.53 | galex-713_ | it crashes when I type my password |
| 19:36.57 | shtrb | lol |
| 19:36.59 | shtrb | :D |
| 19:37.00 | galex-713_ | because itâs not an ascii password |
| 19:37.00 | annadane | oh dear |
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| 19:37.04 | jhutchins_wk | somiaj: Yeah, that's the error I'm seeing with wget and lynx. |
| 19:37.04 | galex-713_ | so I canât report the bug |
| 19:37.12 | shtrb | send an email to BTS |
| 19:37.16 | galex-713_ | Just got a recursive bug |
| 19:37.19 | galex-713_ | BTS? |
| 19:37.21 | galex-713_ | what mail? |
| 19:37.22 | jhutchins_wk | somiaj: chrome's fine |
| 19:38.14 | somiaj | jhutchins_wk: well I notice at least here in jessie that lynx was last updated before the whole ssl issue that happened around chrome 53. I wonder if this has something to do with that? |
| 19:38.15 | shtrb | https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting |
| 19:38.24 | shtrb | galex-713_ ^ |
| 19:38.40 | galex-713_ | also |
| 19:38.41 | galex-713_ | strangely |
| 19:38.42 | galex-713_ | it seems |
| 19:38.50 | galex-713_ | My ISP blocks port 25 |
| 19:38.56 | galex-713_ | I mean, my home, fiber, ISP |
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| 19:39.03 | galex-713_ | But my mobile 3G ISP doesnât |
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| 19:39.10 | galex-713_ | so I need to use 3G to use reportbug |
| 19:39.17 | annadane | !enter |
| 19:39.17 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 19:39.27 | galex-713_ | that kind of 3G connection where DNS is systematically MITM-ed |
| 19:39.34 | galex-713_ | oh ok sorry, thank you for the notice |
| 19:39.39 | tw | jhutchins_wk: your CA chain is wrong. You've still got verisign certs. |
| 19:40.03 | aloo_shu | shtrb: I was considering giving galex-713 the suggestion to install a userland sound server with dbus connection, like pulseaudio, start new session and see if he's lucky and the modem shows up as audio device. just doing alsamixer or the correct alsactl cmd for the same idea just with alsa. |
| 19:40.06 | tw | jhutchins_wk: you need to provide the DigiCert SHA2 High Assurance Server CA intermediate. HA EV Root CA is in debian. |
| 19:40.16 | jhutchins_wk | Hm. Stretch. |
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| 19:40.26 | galex-713_ | aloo_shu, I already have pulseaudio |
| 19:40.28 | jhutchins_wk | tw: On the client or the server? |
| 19:40.35 | tw | Server certificate chain. |
| 19:40.48 | sleepyhead | galex-713_: you're talking about port 25 because of you were asked to send an email? can't you use webmail? |
| 19:40.53 | shtrb | galex-713_ , if that is anything like FREE you can update /etc/resolv.conf or force some lovly DNS server |
| 19:41.04 | somiaj | galex-713_: please don't hit enter so much. Type in full sentences and complete thoughts. |
| 19:41.06 | shtrb | but it will not solve portal redirect if there are any |
| 19:41.13 | jhutchins_wk | tw: I wonder why that isn't part of RedHat's standard CA set. |
| 19:41.25 | shtrb | aloo_shu , nice and excelent idea |
| 19:41.36 | jhutchins_wk | tw: Also, why is Chrome ok with it? |
| 19:41.53 | tw | Chrome probably ships with a bunch of stapled intermediates. |
| 19:42.02 | shtrb | As for port 25 , you have 587 (if you have a smarthost) |
| 19:42.10 | jhutchins_wk | tw: Firefox is good too. |
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| 19:43.01 | galex-713__ | <galex-713_> sleepyhead, erm, first thereâs the port 587 to send mail when the port 25 is closed |
| 19:43.01 | galex-713__ | <galex-713_> then itâs reportbug that send a mail |
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| 19:43.42 | galex-713__ | and even then, horde5 is not maintained anymore, roundcube stays heavy and not that complete and not that configurable and is a whole crap of horrible php and javascript, while my prefered user-agent is emacs and works really well |
| 19:43.58 | shtrb | galex-713__ , you can use dhcp3 config to prevent or to seed first DNS server |
| 19:44.18 | galex-713__ | shtrb, no, itâs not a lyer DNS, itâs a MITM DNS |
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| 19:44.32 | galex-713__ | If I use 8.8.8.8 as a DNS for example, the answer wonât come from Google but from my ISP |
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| 19:44.52 | galex-713__ | They use DPI to identify anything looking like DNS, intercepting it, and relaying that to *their* censored DNS servers |
| 19:45.04 | galex-713__ | so you have to use a VPN, DNSCrypt or Tor |
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| 19:46.02 | shtrb | which operator ? |
| 19:46.21 | galex-713__ | Bouygue Telecom do that in France |
| 19:46.30 | galex-713__ | maybe SFR too |
| 19:46.33 | galex-713__ | or I forgot |
| 19:46.35 | tw | jhutchins_wk: https://paste.debian.net/991564/ note that you are sending VeriSign certs for your intermediate and root and your #1 is not the signer for #0 so it fails to validate. |
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| 19:47.10 | kb3ien | Is there a use for a DNS server on a non-standard port? I could add one, if it helps you. |
| 19:47.16 | tw | I failed at copypaste, it's missing the 3 in 443 |
| 19:47.37 | kb3ien | you'd have to packet mangle to get your machine to use it normally. |
| 19:48.05 | shtrb | there was a regular at #debian-offtopic that provided free shells some time ago |
| 19:48.28 | aloo_shu | xshellz for that |
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| 19:48.37 | aloo_shu | have a chan |
| 19:49.01 | aloo_shu | mainly for bnc, but free for sure |
| 19:49.06 | shtrb | galex-713__ , there was a regular at #debian-offtopic that provided free shells and I think allowed normal ssh tunneling |
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| 19:51.15 | galex-713__ | shtrb, I donât want to give my server password to strangers :P |
| 19:51.33 | galex-713__ | I mean, to enter my smtp server password (which is my server password) on a shell on a remote server given by a stranger |
| 19:51.56 | shtrb | reportbug does not need your password |
| 19:51.56 | galex-713__ | oh actually even on a friendâs shell I wouldnât |
| 19:51.58 | shtrb | I thin k |
| 19:52.06 | galex-713__ | of course, to pass through your smtp server |
| 19:52.15 | jhutchins_wk | tw: Thanks. |
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| 19:52.32 | nkuttler | reportbug can just write to a file |
| 19:52.32 | tw | np |
| 19:52.42 | galex-713__ | otherwise it wouldnât respect spf, be dkim-signed, come from port 25, be re-sent in case of server down-time, etc. and could pass as spam or not arrive at all |
| 19:52.52 | shtrb | galex-713__ , there had been a few DIAL UP servers accross less restrictive places in the EU |
| 19:52.57 | galex-713__ | reportbug asked me my mail and my smtp password |
| 19:53.08 | galex-713__ | shtrb, what do you mean? |
| 19:53.15 | galex-713__ | nkuttler, well it did more with me |
| 19:53.22 | galex-713__ | maybe *yours* only write to a file |
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| 19:53.47 | shtrb | you can get a free dial up internet , I know people in Egypt used when there was Internet crackdown few years ago |
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| 19:54.58 | galex-713__ | oh wait bugreport DOES support using gnus to send bugreports :D |
| 19:55.10 | galex-713__ | shtrb, why would I need it? |
| 19:55.19 | shtrb | to avoid this crazy MITM |
| 19:55.27 | aloo_shu | is getting curious |
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| 19:55.38 | mutante | galex-713__: see the part "Even if you don't have a local MTA" on https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS#Reporting_bug_reports:_reportbug |
| 19:55.49 | galex-713__ | Actually most stuff do work, I already own a VPN (just didnât find out how to make openvpn work with network-manager), and the home connection is fine |
| 19:55.58 | galex-713__ | mutante, oh thank you |
| 19:56.57 | shtrb | Also you may be able to report a bug over ftp |
| 19:57.24 | shtrb | Ignore that I missread the doc |
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| 19:58.11 | rant | galex-713__: no reportbug asks you all those questions first time you run it for initial config, but at the end of the wizard it gives you options of what you want to do with the report |
| 19:58.55 | rant | galex-713__: those questions to create a config file are not part of the actual reporting a bug wizard process, its just pre-config so that the email and such features will work |
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| 19:58.59 | aloo_shu | shrtb I can see myself soldering a phone plug to audio jack cable to plug my laptop into my phone and do dialup just as a proof of concept |
| 19:59.13 | galex-713__ | rant, it asks me after filling the bug |
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| 20:00.31 | rant | galex-713__: hmm.. well idk what you're using but I am designing a new support client, and I literally just not only went over all the reportbug code yesterday, but ran it and at the end it shows a list of buttons for you to save to a file, edit report, email, etc.. |
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| 20:02.33 | galex-713__ | rant, yeah but I think *I* probably selected the mail-sending option |
| 20:02.35 | *** join/#debian darkad (~darkad@host3-158-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:02.41 | somiaj | many isp's won't let you send mail from your machine unless you go through their smtp server. Sometimes just sending an email is the best way to report a bug. I sometimes as rant says get report bug to get all the dependency and version output for the bug, the copy/paste it into an email to send. |
| 20:02.56 | aloo_shu | say he/she picked email but didn't complete, would reportbug try to pick it up where it was left when run next time? |
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| 20:03.32 | greycat | far as I know, you have to tell reportbug to save your report in a file. |
| 20:03.47 | galex-713__ | somiaj, I think currently that option is the best for me |
| 20:03.59 | galex-713__ | yet my isp donât require that for sending mails |
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| 20:04.34 | shtrb | I think my reportbug just went systemd , it doesn't show what I write when I need to choose options :-( |
| 20:04.36 | galex-713__ | thereâs Orange (the ex-State owned ISP, who still owns all the cables) who do that in France, but they are horrible and less and less people accept them (also they cut bittorrent sometimes) |
| 20:04.55 | galex-713__ | Iâll do that, use the file option |
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| 20:05.15 | Exagone313 | Hi, does Debian supports 32-bit x86 without PAE systems? |
| 20:05.27 | galex-713__ | and reportbug about modem-manager-gui, gnus and reportbug |
| 20:05.36 | galex-713__ | maybe some else package |
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| 20:07.05 | shtrb | speaking of reportbug , how does it really send an email using your original email ? smtphost reportbug.debian.org |
| 20:07.06 | somiaj | Exagone313: what do you mean? You just want a non pae kernel for i386? |
| 20:07.15 | Exagone313 | yes |
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| 20:08.50 | somiaj | Exagone313: the linux-image-686 vs linux-image-686-pae, my understanding is only the second includes the pae options compiled in. |
| 20:09.16 | somiaj | though the installer may come with the pae one, and you'll have to install the other. |
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| 20:10.20 | Exagone313 | and is it possible to boot netinst or other isos on such system? been a while since I have installed a distro from usb (I use deboostrap or such each time) |
| 20:10.23 | Exagone313 | hmm |
| 20:10.38 | somiaj | I'm unsure what kernel the netintsall includes by default. |
| 20:11.15 | somiaj | but for some reason I think the pae is default since it is quite common for modern systems to have that much memory. |
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| 20:11.47 | Exagone313 | It was for a friend, but he could boot another distro with the forcepae kernel flag |
| 20:11.56 | Exagone313 | he just got an old computer |
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| 20:12.05 | somiaj | Exagone313: and it failes on pae? |
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| 20:12.38 | somiaj | Exagone313: one *could* manually install with debootstrap. But I'm surprised the installer doesn't work on older systems. Might want to look at debian-installer bugs if this is the case. |
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| 20:16.16 | koollman | Exagone313: how old is 'old'? |
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| 20:17.10 | jhutchins_wk | tw: Thanks for the help. |
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| 20:19.02 | tw | All fixed? I honestly have no clue why ff and chrome were allowing your cert. They must just have bigger built in chains. |
| 20:21.21 | Exagone313 | 13 years old |
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| 20:24.39 | Exagone313 | apparently its CPU supports PAE but has a bug, it does not report the feature and forcepae is needed |
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| 20:25.23 | greycat | Computers that are old enough to have a bar mitzvah are always suspicious. |
| 20:25.25 | somiaj | Exagone313: this is to get pae to work? I guess I don't understand your issue, I thoguht the issue was the pae kernels didn't work? |
| 20:26.18 | foul_owl | Hi folks. All the fonts in menus and save dialogs and such in x.org applications is very large, maybe 96 point font. smplayer menu, chromium save dialog, etc, etc. wm is fluxbox. two week old install of debian 9. Thanks! |
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| 20:27.42 | Exagone313 | I don't have an issue, I just wanted to know if it was possible to install debian, it's okay now |
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| 20:32.42 | somiaj | Exagone313: Proivded it is a pentium machine it is, debian dropped support for 486 and 386 hardware. |
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| 20:32.53 | somiaj | (well it should be) |
| 20:33.01 | Exagone313 | it is |
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| 20:42.54 | n4dir | pentium is always 486 or 386? And when did debian drop the support for those? |
| 20:43.11 | sleepyhead | n4dir: 686 |
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| 20:44.00 | n4dir | sleepyhead: thanks. I do know i often have pentium machines. I could easily install debian on it, but it's a while ago (sure before the actual stable, probably even before the actual old-stable) |
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| 20:44.44 | sleepyhead | n4dir: wait are you serious? pentium machines will be very slow. very very slow. are you a masochist by chance? |
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| 20:45.12 | n4dir | i take what i get for free |
| 20:45.22 | tw | I'm pretty sure I've had staplers with more compute power than an original pentium (586). |
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| 20:46.30 | sleepyhead | n4dir: what are you trying to do with these machines? are they seriously pentium 1s? |
| 20:46.53 | sleepyhead | tw: pentium was 686 |
| 20:47.11 | n4dir | jesus, i don't know from the top of my head. |
| 20:47.13 | tw | pentium pro and pentium 2 are 686; that's mmx. |
| 20:47.47 | somiaj | n4dir: I think the pentium I's were 586, and then everything newer is all in the 686 faimly. I think 386 support was dropped in the release before wheeyz, and jessie dropped 486 support. |
| 20:47.55 | sleepyhead | pentium was 686 |
| 20:48.11 | greycat | The original pentium was the 80586. |
| 20:48.20 | somiaj | there was a 586 step, I don't recall any 586 processors, but my memory could be fuzzy. |
| 20:48.27 | greycat | Pentium Pro is the first '686 I believe. |
| 20:48.37 | somiaj | I'm with greycat I thought the first pentimum was a 586, but soon they were jumped to 686 |
| 20:48.38 | n4dir | next time i will try to install debian on one of those, i will find out ... |
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| 20:50.11 | n4dir | i will yet have to run into a machine on which i can't install debian though. |
| 20:50.42 | somiaj | n4dir: 386/486 are like early 90s machines, they might be considered dinasours, not just old. |
| 20:50.50 | somiaj | well end of 80s early 90s |
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| 20:51.11 | sleepyhead | my bad pentium was 586. pentium pro and pentium II were 686 |
| 20:51.14 | somiaj | debian should run on 586 and newer, though the DE may be quite painful to use. |
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| 20:51.23 | n4dir | somiaj: nah, they weren't that old. sure later than 2000 |
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| 20:51.43 | n4dir | the biggest problem was always the webbrowser. or rather: is. |
| 20:52.03 | n4dir | tried netsurf and dillo. They do the job, but it sure ain't much fun |
| 20:52.06 | greycat | "has always been" |
| 20:52.13 | n4dir | thank you, sir. |
| 20:52.16 | tw | the biggest problem is that burning a CD would fail if you opened any other program because IO sucks on anything that old. |
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| 20:52.56 | n4dir | I had a laptop with 64 MB of Ram. Jesus, that was a pain. Glad it died. |
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| 20:54.13 | tw | here, I have made a picture to illustrate my stapler vs 586 cpu comparison: https://i.imgur.com/AXkM3yI.png Stapler is clearly the winner. |
| 20:54.37 | greycat | I had a mail server with 64 MB of RAM. Couldn't run the default jessie kernel; should have left it on wheezy. Glad it finally died. |
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| 20:55.29 | sleepyhead | it went old and grey and died |
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| 20:55.56 | greycat | I think the plastic case was noticeably yellowing. |
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| 20:56.13 | n4dir | sleepyhead: to answer your question. Most of the time i use those machines a) to test if i can install anything on them and b) to backup data there. |
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| 20:56.42 | sleepyhead | n4dir: c) to get off on the pain of it all coz you're a masochist. |
| 20:57.09 | n4dir | :-) |
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| 20:58.07 | n4dir | as far pain is concerned i can recommend ppc. That can really be annoying. |
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| 21:14.22 | lungaro | so dpkg-scanpackages is really slow on large repos, for dev repos which are updated often, is there a tool which caches the previously generated bits? |
| 21:14.26 | foul_owl | I have a Pentium 1 100mhtz running debian 4, git, ssh, vim, etc |
| 21:14.40 | foul_owl | Runs quake in svgalib at 20 fps without x.org |
| 21:14.42 | dTal | foul_owl: go on... |
| 21:14.48 | lungaro | i really dont feel like writing one, but i dunno what to even look for |
| 21:14.53 | foul_owl | Got it in 2008 for $5 |
| 21:15.01 | foul_owl | Still runs great XD |
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| 21:15.33 | foul_owl | I can do useful work on it. I wouldn't discount older systems. A lot of people are on extremely tight budgets. If someone can get a useable system for free, more power to em |
| 21:15.56 | foul_owl | In my case though, I just like vintage computers haha |
| 21:16.15 | dTal | your computer is too new |
| 21:16.48 | dTal | my favorite computer has a 13 Mhz m68k |
| 21:17.01 | annadane | !chat |
| 21:17.02 | dpkg | This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net. |
| 21:17.11 | dTal | !rot13 chat |
| 21:17.11 | dpkg | pung |
| 21:17.14 | dTal | snerk |
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| 21:20.49 | foul_owl | Sorry |
| 21:21.08 | nyaomi | while on the "select and install software" phase of installation, is it safe to lose internet access while moving through "preparing" and "configuring" each package? |
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| 21:23.46 | n4dir | wild guessing: that step of installation will fail, you will get the info and the proposal to go back one step (that is: go through exactly that procedure again). |
| 21:24.48 | n4dir | i would make sure to not lose internet connection anyway. |
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| 21:26.06 | nyaomi | aren't packages already downloaded by that point though? |
| 21:27.40 | n4dir | well possible, i don't know |
| 21:28.36 | n4dir | it might be an idea to only choose the basics during taskel (that is: no Destkop Environment), to get quickly through it. I for one prefer such problems after the installation. |
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| 21:29.51 | nyaomi | i'm installing to usb2 and it's taking much, much longer than i anticipated ;-; |
| 21:30.07 | nyaomi | almost 3 hours for base + lxde |
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| 21:31.01 | jhutchin1_wk | nyaomi: Yeah, you can fix the install after it ends, either from within if it will boot (aptitude -f install), or in a chroot from a live/rescue image. |
| 21:31.33 | jhutchin1_wk | nyaomi: If you're installing to a flash drive, you're going to find it painfully slow. It's better to use a live image, theyr'e optimised for the slow speed. |
| 21:32.11 | n4dir | 3 hours sounds still a lot though. |
| 21:32.42 | jhutchin1_wk | n4dir: USB2 is slow, especially on Linux for some reason. |
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| 21:33.07 | n4dir | I did install on a USB-stick. I don't recall it took that long. But it's a while ago. |
| 21:33.09 | jhutchin1_wk | n4dir: For an install, you're doing lots of discrete disk operations. |
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| 21:33.26 | n4dir | sure took way longer than usual, of course. |
| 21:34.07 | n4dir | but if you say 3 hours don't surprise you, then all is fine |
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| 21:36.37 | nyaomi | jhutchin1_wk: would you expect an install to fail if internet access is lost at this phase though? |
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| 21:43.33 | nyaomi | looks like it's doing OK so far, we'll see |
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| 21:52.55 | gumbee | just wondering if you any of you linux enthusiasts might know the answer to this, but why does it take installing an app to get root access to an android phone? |
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| 22:06.37 | rhizome | gumbee: because there's no su otherwise |
| 22:08.28 | gumbee | rhizome: So does that mean that the app developer will also have root access to my phone? |
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| 22:12.58 | galex-713__ | gumbee, any app developer can do anything with your phone |
| 22:13.18 | galex-713__ | well, anything authorized by what the app is âpermittedâ to do |
| 22:13.24 | galex-713__ | that is pretty much everything most of time |
| 22:13.29 | rhizome | gumbee: no, apps are installed in the user context, sandbox. |
| 22:13.31 | galex-713__ | such like reading your smses, contacts, etc. |
| 22:14.00 | gumbee | galex-713__: right, well, apparently whatever permissions that we consent to when we install the app |
| 22:14.12 | galex-713__ | yeah |
| 22:14.39 | galex-713__ | you canât even say âyes yes of courseâ and give the app access to a false contact/sms/etc. database |
| 22:14.39 | gumbee | rhizome: so is there a way to get root access to an android phone without installing an app? Or do most people find using the app to get root access "safe? |
| 22:14.45 | galex-713__ | because itâs not free software |
| 22:15.08 | rafalcpp | perf interrupt took too long (2508 > 2500), lowering kernel.perf_event_max_sample_rate to 50000 |
| 22:15.10 | rhizome | gumbee: via what? it's helpful to think of su/sudo as an "app" here |
| 22:15.13 | rafalcpp | why perf is running at all in system? |
| 22:15.16 | rafalcpp | how to disable it? |
| 22:15.22 | gumbee | galex-713__: Well IMO android is def not free software |
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| 22:15.50 | gumbee | rhizome: maybe via typing some commands in adb. Not sure. |
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| 22:16.23 | gumbee | rhizome: I just thought it was a little unusual, because I would never actually install an app to root access on debian |
| 22:16.33 | gumbee | *get root access |
| 22:16.39 | rhizome | because it comes with it |
| 22:16.57 | rhizome | note that you don't log into your phone |
| 22:16.57 | jarlopez | Any tips for debugging connecting to a serial port? I'm running minicom using the vendor's recommended settings, but receive no data back from the device |
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| 22:18.35 | rhizome | jarlopez: what's running on the other side, i.e. what is going to reply? |
| 22:19.02 | gumbee | rhizome: cool, hmm do you have any recommendations on a specific root app then? Just curious if you feel some are more "free" than others. |
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| 22:19.57 | galex-713_ | gumbee, just looks whatâs there on FreeDroid |
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| 22:20.16 | rhizome | i haven't rooted my phone yet, but check reddit /r/android. i think i did try SuperSU (or something like that) once upon a time. if you google for a rooting howto, read a few and take note of any repeated recommendations. |
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| 22:21.12 | gumbee | rhizome: galex-713_ : cool, thank you to you both! |
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| 22:21.59 | tremon | rafalcpp: perf is a kernel self-monitoring feature, you'd need to recompile the kernel: https://serverfault.com/questions/714648/how-to-disable-perf-subsystem-in-linux-kernel |
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| 22:24.44 | jarlopez | rhizome: an IoT network manager is on the other side, which the vendor recommends connecting to either by serial term to its CLI port or by application to its API port. I get through on the API port, but not the CLI |
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| 22:26.52 | rafalcpp | my sys does over 50K interrupts per second, I wonder if this is slowing system down.. anything to optimize here? maybe some high resolution (1000 Hz) kernel would be better? |
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| 22:35.29 | tremon | and those are all monitoring interrupts? can you paste the output of /proc/interrupts? |
| 22:35.33 | tremon | !paste |
| 22:35.33 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
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| 22:38.27 | rhizome | jarlopez: if you're connecting directly you might need a null modem |
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| 22:43.45 | jarlopez | rhizome: Ah, should've specified the manager plugs in with USB and that the FDTI Virtual COM Port driver seems to be working correctly (dmesg | grep tty identifies all ports) |
| 22:44.28 | jarlopez | at this point I'm trying to figure out why the CLI port isn't responding, but the API port is |
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| 22:46.10 | jarlopez | I'm worried it's hardware-related :-\ |
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| 22:49.11 | spacedust | hi |
| 22:49.18 | spacedust | how could i put my disk to always on ? |
| 22:49.35 | spacedust | i have a laptop wd blue 5400rpm disk that spins down very often |
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| 22:50.44 | spacedust | 96 (intermediate level with standby) is it this that i need to change apm level? |
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| 23:00.59 | awal1 | spacedust, check your power management settings |
| 23:02.17 | awal1 | if using a DE, "xset -dpms s off" if WM |
| 23:02.33 | awal1 | i hope i understood your issue :P |
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| 23:46.33 | kevy0 | Hi, when I try to reload my fonts , I get that error message : http://paste.debian.net/plain/991591 |
| 23:46.36 | kevy0 | help ? |
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| 23:56.51 | Waxhead | When a new package (for example the kernel) is available in the repo. Is there some way of reading a change log easily?! For example if the kernel gets a minor update it would be interesting to see if a spesiffic area you are interested in (for example filesystems) got changes backported from upstream. |
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