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| 00:32.32 | awal1 | coruja, 'obamenu' still very buggy right now |
| 00:33.04 | awal1 | upgrade from stable to testing just bcoz of obamenu is not a good idea |
| 00:33.29 | annadane | openbox is also probably super easy to compile |
| 00:34.21 | awal1 | the traditional openbox-menu (pointed to gnome/lxde-applications.menu) is a better idea |
| 00:34.48 | awal1 | I still use that under sid (not obamenu) |
| 00:35.51 | awal1 | and as somiaj said, stable version vs sid / buster one is very trivial |
| 00:36.42 | awal1 | difference between stretch and buster/sid versions, i meant |
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| 00:43.00 | awal1 | annadane, openbox is almost very stable and randr stuff compatible :P |
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| 01:10.06 | MannyLNJ | Hello. I'm on Debian 9.3 I'm using a howto on howtoforge on setting up a DHCP server for my lan. I don't know what I messed up but the isc-dhcp-server.service will not start I have pasted the output of systemctl status isc-dhcp-server.service to https://pastebin.com/meHRGsTL |
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| 01:18.49 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.3 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 01:23.12 | MannyLNJ | Problem solved thanks to another channel |
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| 01:27.07 | lean_wow_070707 | Guys, what is the difference between the mini.iso and the netinstall.iso ? |
| 01:28.00 | dvs | lean_wow_070707, the netinstall is capable of installing a minimum system without going over the internet. |
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| 01:30.49 | lean_wow_070707 | okay, thanks. |
| 01:31.04 | dvs | np |
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| 03:12.36 | xgpt | anyone use a console based email client with gmail? something well integrated with gmail and also easy to set up? |
| 03:20.36 | RoyK | xgpt: alpine? mutt? |
| 03:20.52 | RoyK | xgpt: anything that can speak imap should do |
| 03:21.57 | aegis | mutt works |
| 03:22.11 | aegis | remember pine? |
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| 03:25.37 | xgpt | i got alpine running, but labels suck |
| 03:26.08 | xgpt | also the inability to archive vs delete is bothering me |
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| 04:42.29 | cr1t1cal | when I plug a new pair of headphones in |
| 04:42.33 | cr1t1cal | my sound stops working |
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| 04:42.48 | cr1t1cal | not muted in alsamixer, aplay finds soundcards |
| 04:43.04 | cr1t1cal | even if I unplug and replug the same headphones my sound stops working and only a restart fixes it |
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| 05:10.00 | diveyez | Well I would help if I could type your name lol |
| 05:10.41 | diveyez | Hes gone, pz |
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| 05:23.08 | hiexpo | Good evening everyone hey I have made several desktop launchers to launch terminal application and it always launches with the gnome terminal perhaps like this one the command I used is sh -c "nmap;${SHELL:-bash}" how can I do it to use a differant terminal like xfce terminal |
| 05:24.44 | hiexpo | and thanks in advance |
| 05:36.20 | somiaj | hiexpo: give more details on how you made these launchers. Are they .desktop files? |
| 05:37.02 | somiaj | hiexpo: also what terminal does 'ls -l /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator' point at? |
| 05:38.32 | hiexpo | somiaj, yes they are .desktop files and i amd useing mate desktop and it points at xfce4-terminal.wrapper |
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| 05:47.15 | somiaj | hiexpo: looking around, You could do something like this and call the the terminal emulator you want directly from the Exec part of the file. |
| 05:47.19 | somiaj | https://askubuntu.com/questions/647054/is-it-possible-to-set-the-terminal-emulator-used-by-desktop-configuration-files |
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| 05:48.48 | somiaj | there is also a Terminal= variable you can set, you might need to set that to false. though I'm surprised it isn't using /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator, which is pointing at xfce4 |
| 05:49.53 | somiaj | hiexpo: what is the output of 'echo $TERM' |
| 05:50.33 | hiexpo | somiaj, xterm |
| 05:51.09 | somiaj | I'm unsure where xfce is getting the default terminal, which you say is launching in gnome-terminal. |
| 05:51.30 | somiaj | But if you set Terminal=false, and then just run the terminal you want in your .desktop file that will work. It isn't that protable though. |
| 05:51.52 | hiexpo | somiaj, okay |
| 05:52.25 | somiaj | you could also just run, x-terminal-emulator -e "command", this way in the future changing the x-terminal-emulator using the alternatives file can update this in the future. |
| 05:52.47 | Unit193 | exo-preferred-applications --query TerminalEmulator |
| 05:52.47 | somiaj | (or you could try to track down what xfce is using to set the default terminal to launch things in). Maybe xdg-open is doing this. |
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| 09:58.15 | Graf_Ithaka | Howdy, good morning. I am using Debian (stretch) at work and I noticed today that the packages "linux-image-amd64" and the headers "have been kept back". Now I wonder - is that a dedicated AMD-optimized build of the upstream kernel ? I am running on a Threadripper 1950X, thus it would make sense in that case. |
| 09:59.34 | teatime | Graf_Ithaka: nah, linux-image-amd64 is just a meta-package that always depends on the newest/current kernel package. |
| 10:00.02 | teatime | Graf_Ithaka: if you had done 'apt full-upgrade' instead of just 'upgrade', it would have worked, although you're not supposed to really need that if you're only doing stable upgrades |
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| 10:01.40 | teatime | Graf_Ithaka: you can just 'apt install linux-image-amd64 linux-headers-amd64' to work around the slight hiccup and get back on track |
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| 10:09.53 | Graf_Ithaka | teatime: oki I see. I still wonder if there is a metapackage when the contents effectively installed are the same? I am not entirely familiar with the debian packaging philosophy yet |
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| 10:20.00 | alkisg | Graf_Ithaka: which command did you run and they were held back, apt-get upgrade? |
| 10:20.09 | Graf_Ithaka | alkisg: yes |
| 10:20.27 | alkisg | Graf_Ithaka: that means "don't fully update my system" |
| 10:20.32 | alkisg | Use apt-get dist-upgrade instead |
| 10:21.00 | alkisg | apt-get update means "don't install any new packages like a new kernel, even if they're the correct thing to do" |
| 10:25.04 | Graf_Ithaka | Ah darn, sorry. This was a simple misunderstanding of me. I thought the "amd64" extension was "different" simply because I wasnt used to that from a different distro, but that actually is *the* kernel package in Debian. |
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| 10:37.14 | becks` | hi, does somebody know why ">" doesn't work when used in a cronjob? my script looks like this: `echo "bla" > /root/blafile`, but blafile never gets created when cron executes it... my script and crontab: https://pastebin.com/raw/xQsY8eyG |
| 10:37.55 | alkisg | becks`: you didn't put a shebang, #!/bin/sh |
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| 10:41.08 | becks` | alkisg: it's weird, it's not even working when adding one... here's how I did it: https://pastebin.com/raw/eX2zFH2T |
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| 10:46.03 | simpledat | I use debian stretch. How do I uninstall Flash? |
| 10:46.20 | simpledat | Flash player |
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| 11:01.22 | simpledat | https://paste.debian.net/1008639/ |
| 11:01.23 | simpledat | Why I getting this error? |
| 11:02.39 | alkisg | becks`: you also need to make it executable, chmod +x |
| 11:02.47 | alkisg | Start by just running the script, e.g. /root/test.sh |
| 11:02.57 | alkisg | Once it runs properly, THEN put it to cron |
| 11:03.14 | becks` | alkisg: well it is, if I execute it normally (./test.sh), /root/blafile gets created immediately |
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| 11:04.25 | alkisg | becks`: ok, and you're putting this into cron how exactly? |
| 11:04.53 | becks` | alkisg: with crontab -e, as root |
| 11:05.08 | alkisg | simpledat: that is because you have some bad virtualbox entry in your sources, remove it |
| 11:06.52 | alkisg | becks`: remove those PATH and SHELL entries and try again |
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| 11:09.47 | becks` | alkisg: still not working :D don't know what's wrong here |
| 11:09.47 | simpledat | What is the most lightweight debian distro? Lubuntu? Or is there any other one? |
| 11:10.08 | alkisg | simpledat: lubuntu is ubuntu, it's not debian |
| 11:10.21 | alkisg | You can use Debian LXDE if you want, it's like lubuntu |
| 11:10.29 | alkisg | Why, you can less than 1 GB RAM? |
| 11:10.32 | simpledat | I mean distros based on debian |
| 11:10.42 | alkisg | *you have... |
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| 11:11.13 | simpledat | Im looking for the most lightweight |
| 11:11.19 | alkisg | Why? |
| 11:11.20 | simpledat | debian distro |
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| 11:13.12 | simpledat | alkisg: I want to see what distro is best for old laptops |
| 11:13.16 | simpledat | for example |
| 11:13.24 | alkisg | simpledat: how much ram and which cpu does that laptop have? |
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| 11:14.19 | simpledat | Im looking for the most lightweight debian based distro |
| 11:14.48 | alkisg | OK then, it's the minimal debian installation. It only has the kernel and the basic packages. It runs on 48 MB RAM. |
| 11:14.54 | alkisg | It doesn't have xorg, browsers, anything. OK? |
| 11:15.13 | alkisg | If you don't specify your requirements better, you won't be able to select |
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| 11:16.04 | alkisg | You need to specify the hardware you'll be using, and what you'll be doing with that |
| 11:16.21 | alkisg | E.g. "1 GB RAM, Pentium 4 @ 2.4 GHz, and I want to surf and use libreoffice" |
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| 11:17.52 | simpledat | alkisg: Im looking for a completed distro not minimal debian installation. |
| 11:17.55 | Emil | Hey anyone used parallel? |
| 11:18.22 | Emil | I have multiple machines where'd I'd like to have the same command executed but parallel executes them ironically one at a time :D |
| 11:18.49 | simpledat | alkisg: Example, xubuntu is better to use for old laptops then ubuntu. But is there any better option for me? |
| 11:18.55 | Emil | Like parallel --tag --nonall --sshloginfile nodelist.txt 'find . -type f | wc -l' |
| 11:19.13 | alkisg | simpledat: I'm looking for a car. But I won't tell you if I want to go offroad or run in streets with it, or how many kids I have. Which one should I buy? |
| 11:19.21 | endstille | Emil: i would try crontab to do it exactly at the same time, in case your ntp is fine :) |
| 11:19.33 | EoflaOE | simpledat: Can you see if Lubuntu suits you? It is lightweight. |
| 11:20.19 | alkisg | simpledat: in normal usage, people want to use a browser, which needs 1+ GB RAM. So it doesn't matter at all if they're using LXDE which boot with 200 MB or XFCE which boots with 300 MB, because the browser is the problem, and it's the same in all distros and desktop environments |
| 11:20.27 | simpledat | EoflaOE: Is xubuntu more lightweight then lubuntu? |
| 11:20.40 | alkisg | simpledat: so if you don't mention specific CPU/RAM etc, then no desktop environment is "better" for you |
| 11:21.11 | Emil | endstille: no no |
| 11:21.16 | Emil | endstille: the issue is not when executed |
| 11:21.17 | EoflaOE | simpledat: I think lubuntu is more lightweight than xubuntu |
| 11:21.27 | Emil | the issue is that it's executing them sequentially, not in parallel |
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| 11:47.01 | becks` | alkisg: I think I figured out: a user has a cronjob that starts background processes... when I restart cron, it works, until cron starts to execute those background processes. do you know if there's a limit on how many processes cron can spawn? |
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| 11:48.46 | Emil | becks`: man ulimit |
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| 11:49.38 | becks` | thanks Emil, I think it can't be ulimit since he only starts 24 processes |
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| 12:12.05 | AnnoyingDude | Hello. I am conducting a brief survey. Feel free to put your answers in the channel for the following question(s) |
| 12:12.05 | AnnoyingDude | 1. Who is hotter, Genevieve Padalecki or Emily Swallow? |
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| 12:14.09 | hypn0 | read the topic :-P |
| 12:14.30 | AnnoyingDude | hypn0: The topic is irrelevant. |
| 12:15.20 | hypn0 | .... to an AnnoyingDude |
| 12:16.22 | AnnoyingDude | Annoyance is irrelevant |
| 12:16.22 | Emil | It's just a troll |
| 12:16.25 | AnnoyingDude | We are the Borg |
| 12:17.00 | AnnoyingDude | Emil: No, that would be your mother you're talking about now. |
| 12:17.07 | AnnoyingDude | honestly tho |
| 12:17.18 | AnnoyingDude | how can anyone say Emily Swallow isn't super hot? |
| 12:17.20 | AnnoyingDude | http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1507170/supernatural-season-11-episode-19.jpg |
| 12:17.59 | Emil | What's the way to call ops on this channel |
| 12:18.06 | AnnoyingDude | !ops |
| 12:18.06 | dpkg | Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel. |
| 12:18.12 | AnnoyingDude | !ops Emil |
| 12:18.12 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: annoyingdude complains about a problem (see above) |
| 12:18.22 | AnnoyingDude | !ops Emil is trolling |
| 12:18.22 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: annoyingdude complains about a problem (see above) |
| 12:18.29 | Emil | quality |
| 12:18.37 | AnnoyingDude | !ops Emil is sexually harassing your mother |
| 12:18.37 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: annoyingdude complains about a problem (see above) |
| 12:18.41 | hypn0 | !ops AnnoyingDude troll |
| 12:18.41 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: hypn0 complains about a problem (see above) |
| 12:18.52 | AnnoyingDude | !ops hypn0 rapes babies |
| 12:18.53 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: annoyingdude complains about a problem (see above) |
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| 12:24.12 | phood | hey i'm on debian 9 (stratch) but its kernel is out of date. how to upgrade kernel? (i tried apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade but the kernel is still old 4.9.0) |
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| 12:25.42 | Emil | phood: restart |
| 12:25.59 | phood | Emil: tried no work |
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| 12:27.29 | phood | Emil: my source list is the same as https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList |
| 12:28.08 | endstille | phood: 4.9.x is not old it is the current stable kernel. it will be there, until buster is released. you can either use it or switch to backports, there you would currently get 4.14.x |
| 12:29.19 | phood | endstille: actually i want to use 4.9.x series (LTS) but the kernel on my debian is 4.9.0 i see the kernel now is 4.9.79 from kernel.org |
| 12:30.00 | abrotman | well, that was neat .. |
| 12:30.16 | metastable | phood: The actual running kernel version is 4.9.65. |
| 12:30.18 | phood | i used Debian 9.3 on my VPS |
| 12:30.35 | phood | metastable: yours? how to upgrade to 4.9.65 then |
| 12:30.45 | metastable | phood: Including backported patches from later 4.9.x releases. Is there a reason you need a newer/different kernel? |
| 12:31.03 | metastable | phood: Please paste the output of 'uname -v'. |
| 12:31.19 | phood | metastable: the 4.9.0 kernel isn't patched (security exploits) |
| 12:31.35 | metastable | phood: Let's try again. Please paste the output of 'uname -v'. |
| 12:31.47 | phood | okay |
| 12:33.00 | phood | uname -v |
| 12:33.01 | phood | #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u2 (2018-01-04) |
| 12:33.01 | phood | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:33.05 | metastable | phood: So, Debian selectively backports patches from kernel releases after 4.9.65. One of the core concepts behind vulnerability assessments is that version numbers lie. |
| 12:33.23 | metastable | As you can see, the actual version of your kernel is 4.9.65, plus Debian's subsequent patches. |
| 12:33.46 | phood | uname -r gives me : 4.9.0-5-amd64 |
| 12:33.51 | metastable | I'm aware. |
| 12:33.57 | phood | is this a difference? |
| 12:34.02 | metastable | That's the Debian package version, not the version of the kernel itself. |
| 12:34.20 | xormor | #1 SMP Wed Jan 31 08:52:42 EET 2018 |
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| 12:34.30 | phood | metastable: alright thank you. i see. |
| 12:34.37 | xormor | 4.15.0 |
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| 12:35.03 | xormor | are there security exploits in the 4.15.0 version of the kernel? |
| 12:35.39 | metastable | I don't think that 4.15 has been out long enough for any to surface. |
| 12:35.43 | jelly | phood: which patch are you missing from debian 9 current kernel? |
| 12:35.45 | metastable | Give it a bit of time. Something will be found. |
| 12:36.04 | metastable | jelly: I think I answered his question. |
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| 12:36.42 | phood | the previous old kernel i have is 3.13.x. |
| 12:37.05 | phood | and it was exploited |
| 12:37.21 | metastable | 3.13.x? No Debian release was ever made with that version. |
| 12:37.41 | jelly | phood: you can look up specific vulnerabilities in debian's security tracker and see which package versions they got fixed in, if any |
| 12:38.04 | phood | jelly: thx |
| 12:38.20 | phood | metastable: i go from Ubuntu to debian now. |
| 12:38.26 | jelly | eg. for meltdown, |
| 12:38.36 | jelly | !cve lookup CVE-2017-5754 |
| 12:38.36 | dpkg | Information about the security advisory CVE-2017-5754 may be found at https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2017-5754 |
| 12:38.43 | phood | i think its a meltdown exploit to my server. |
| 12:39.06 | phood | hacker got the root privilege and uploaded his own key |
| 12:39.16 | metastable | I highly doubt that it was as a result of Meltdown. |
| 12:39.49 | phood | metastable: i don't know . the server ran a wordpress site. i think it's the wordpress exploits |
| 12:39.49 | jelly | and there you see 4.9.65-3+deb9u2 has patches against meltdown |
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| 12:40.05 | metastable | phood: Yeah, Wordpress is its own bundle of fail. That and PHP. |
| 12:40.10 | phood | jelly: that's why i need to upgrade all my kernels... |
| 12:40.36 | phood | metastable: cracker didn't do much beside starting mining on my vps server |
| 12:40.46 | phood | i found it 3 days later and shut it down. |
| 12:40.54 | metastable | phood: You're really chasing the wrong thing here. Meltdown isn't your problem. Properly securing your system and services is. |
| 12:41.34 | jelly | phood: those usually do not bother getting root at all, having an normal user and shell is enough to run a miner and keep it alive via cron |
| 12:42.54 | jelly | keep your wp up to date and avoid using random additions to it |
| 12:42.58 | phood | metastable: i now don't trust wordpress now even though it upgrades itself automatically |
| 12:42.58 | phood | i have another site written in Python(django) it's for mobile app. it runs well for 1000+ days |
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| 12:43.20 | metastable | phood: Again, Meltdown is not your biggest risk. |
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| 12:55.30 | flux242 | https://i.imgflip.com/227s68.jpg |
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| 13:11.50 | teatime | I wish to be enlightened wrt this msg; it appears at intervals in my `dmesg`: |
| 13:11.54 | teatime | [22056.558128] perf: interrupt took too long (6122 > 6121), lowering kernel.perf_event_max_sample_rate to 32500 |
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| 13:14.13 | metastable | teatime: The perf tool is included in the kernel. Basically, the kernel measures perf poll response time, and if it starts to take longer than a certain threshold, it decides that the system is under load and will poll less often so as not to impact system performance. This runs even if the perf userspace tool isn't active or installed. |
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| 13:14.30 | teatime | ahhhh |
| 13:14.34 | teatime | so a red-herring then, excellent |
| 13:14.52 | teatime | and that explains why it seems to coincide w/ other issues I have under load |
| 13:14.56 | teatime | thank you. |
| 13:15.00 | metastable | Glad I could help. |
| 13:16.28 | BluesKaj | Hi folks |
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| 13:18.25 | teatime | Graf_Ithaka: dunno if someone answered you already, but: the definition of a "meta-package" is a package that has no contents (installs no files, etc.), and exists only to carry Apt package meta-data, such as Depends: |
| 13:19.36 | teatime | Graf_Ithaka: kernels are handled a bit differently than most packages, name-and-version-wise, so that you can have multiple installed. so those meta-packages are a way to have Apt realize a new kernel should be installed, when one is released. or you can not have them, and manually micro-manage your kernel version; whichever is most appropriate. |
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| 13:23.20 | tw | Anybody know if nvidia-driver 375 can be made to work with 4.14.bpo3? |
| 13:23.40 | tw | linux 4.14.bpo3 |
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| 13:31.41 | Emil | So |
| 13:31.53 | Emil | I have multiple machines with same folder structure but files differ |
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| 13:32.24 | Emil | by files differ I mean that there are no same named files, not that they would be different same named files |
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| 13:32.57 | Emil | anycase, what's the best way to download all the other files from other remote computers to a single computer? |
| 13:34.30 | Emil | like I have files a/b/1 a/b/2 a/b/3 in machine x and a/b/4 a/b/5 a/b/6 in machine y. I'd like to have the files from machine y pulled to machine x |
| 13:35.11 | Emil | I don't care about timestamps or anything, just that I get the files |
| 13:35.38 | tw | rsync -avxP user@remotemachine:/path/to/source/ /local/path/to/dest |
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| 13:35.46 | tw | trailing slashes do matter. |
| 13:36.46 | Emil | tw: I assume I can also add recurisve to that if I have multiple b directories? |
| 13:37.23 | tw | It's already recursive, but it does not cross filesystem boundaries (because -x) |
| 13:38.08 | tw | so if you used user@remotemachine:/remote/a/ /local/a it will grab all of the directories b on the remote side and copy them over. |
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| 13:39.20 | tw | -a will also preserve permissions but won't copy xattrs or preserve sparseness or hardlinks. |
| 13:39.31 | Emil | tw: don't care about permissions |
| 13:39.50 | Emil | and since bandwidth is the limiting factor, should I also enable some sort of compression? |
| 13:40.17 | tw | I usually don't, but add -z for that |
| 13:40.39 | tw | Still, use -a because it actually specifies a lot of options. |
| 13:42.02 | Emil | so rsync -zavxP user@server:path/ path should download all the missing files from remote to the local |
| 13:42.41 | Emil | if I have path/a/fileshere path/b/fileshere path/c/fileshere |
| 13:43.42 | tw | yes. |
| 13:43.50 | Emil | alrighty, lets see if it works |
| 13:44.01 | Emil | and it doesn't delete anything, right? |
| 13:44.09 | tw | no, there's an additional option for delete. |
| 13:44.24 | Emil | only if there already exists (doesn't) it would overwrite the local with one from remote |
| 13:44.39 | tw | No, it'll try to overwrite older with newer. |
| 13:44.45 | Emil | alrighty, lets see what happens |
| 13:46.13 | tw | I would recommend killing it and checking shortly after starting to make sure the directories are being placed where you want. |
| 13:46.20 | tw | -P makes it resumable. |
| 13:46.35 | tw | eg, if it fails half way through you can run the same command again and it will resume where it left off. |
| 13:47.02 | Emil | tw: I have the same directory structure |
| 13:47.09 | Emil | same directories exist on all machies |
| 13:47.53 | Exagone313 | Hi, is there a distro-independant tool (i.e. not depending on APT) to search for Debian package (by name or by file)? Actually I use https://packages.debian.org/ but I'd prefer to use a cli tool, with offline capabilities. Thanks for your help. |
| 13:48.12 | tw | Emil: I mean to make sure the *command* is doing what you expect it to. |
| 13:48.33 | Emil | ah yeah |
| 13:48.54 | tw | It's a lot easier than re-sorting later if it blows up or tries to copy already existing files. |
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| 13:53.19 | bauruine | Emil, If you don't want to update local files you can use --ignore-existing skip updating files that exist on receiver |
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| 13:56.11 | Emil | bauruine: can I have it tell me if it skips files with that? |
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| 13:56.40 | Emil | that would be convenient |
| 13:57.34 | bauruine | Emil, i'm not sure. You can always add --dry-run to see what it does without doing anything. |
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| 14:04.40 | bauruine | I've got a problem with a pci-e network card which doesn't detect a cable. I could get it to work once by changing the pcie slot but after a reboot the problem arrived again. I've already used different cables and switchports. dmesg / ip link sh / ethtool / lspci output https://paste.debian.net/1008649/ |
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| 14:23.41 | bauruine | Exagone313, apt-file. not sure if it works on a non debian os. |
| 14:24.13 | Exagone313 | bauruine: that depends on apt cache |
| 14:24.25 | JohnA | I have been using davical for several years. It works but I have been wondering is there might be a "better" alternative? Suggestions? |
| 14:24.27 | Exagone313 | I guess |
| 14:24.36 | abrotman | Exagone313: you can get the contents files and grep them yourself |
| 14:24.51 | Emil | tw: thanks, seemed to be working nicely |
| 14:25.14 | Exagone313 | abrotman: what do you mean? parsing packages.debian.org output? |
| 14:25.23 | abrotman | no |
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| 14:26.01 | abrotman | http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/main/Contents-amd64.gz |
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| 14:27.16 | Emil | Okay so another question |
| 14:27.26 | abrotman | Exagone313: does that get you what you want? |
| 14:27.36 | Emil | what's the best way to check that a range of regularly named files exists in directory? |
| 14:27.46 | abrotman | a range? |
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| 14:27.58 | Exagone313 | abrotman: yes |
| 14:28.08 | Exagone313 | tahnks you |
| 14:28.10 | Emil | abrotman: say files with names 100, 101, 102, ... 999 |
| 14:28.22 | abrotman | Exagone313: there are many files, ensure you get the Contrib and Non-free also |
| 14:28.26 | Emil | that all those files exist in a directory |
| 14:28.28 | abrotman | and note that not all packages exist on all architectures |
| 14:29.12 | Exagone313 | abrotman: ok |
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| 14:30.32 | tw | Emil: for i in {100..999}; do if [ ! -e "$i" ]; then echo "missing $i"; fi; done |
| 14:30.59 | tw | I don't know of a nice tool to wrap that up in a single command though =/ |
| 14:31.08 | tw | negative detection is always hard. |
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| 14:32.02 | Emil | yeah it has some challenges |
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| 14:35.09 | tw | I tried to install 4.14 from backports but it needs the nvidia driver 384.* from backports... and that makes steam barf. Can't catch a break this morning. |
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| 15:15.41 | dx_ob | guys, how do i upgrade my kernel |
| 15:15.59 | towo` | upgrade to what? |
| 15:16.04 | dx_ob | linux-headers-4.9.0-5-amd64 is installed, but uname -r gives |
| 15:16.11 | dx_ob | 3.16.0-4-amd64 |
| 15:16.23 | towo` | headers != kernel |
| 15:16.31 | towo` | so install linux-image-amd64 |
| 15:16.34 | dx_ob | linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 |
| 15:16.41 | dx_ob | linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 is already the newest version (4.9.65-3+deb9u2). |
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| 15:17.12 | towo` | rebooted? |
| 15:17.18 | dx_ob | no... |
| 15:17.20 | abrotman | dx_ob: cat /etc/debian_version |
| 15:17.29 | towo` | then how should run the new kernel? |
| 15:17.34 | dx_ob | i didnt reboot i guess |
| 15:17.41 | abrotman | Ever? |
| 15:17.51 | dx_ob | cat /etc/debian_version |
| 15:17.51 | dx_ob | 9.3 |
| 15:18.00 | alkisg | uptime ? |
| 15:18.10 | dx_ob | no i rebooted earlier |
| 15:18.24 | dx_ob | just not last night when i installed the kernel |
| 15:18.24 | alkisg | Put your /boot/grub/grub.cfg to pastebin.. |
| 15:18.39 | abrotman | might not have the metapackage installed ? |
| 15:18.45 | abrotman | dx_ob: dpkg -l | grep linux-image |
| 15:18.53 | tarzeau | towo`, abrotman! |
| 15:19.09 | abrotman | tarzeau: Hello old man! :) |
| 15:20.07 | dx_ob | ok im removing the 3.16 kernel |
| 15:20.16 | abrotman | uh, don't do that |
| 15:20.22 | dx_ob | http://paste.debian.net/1008659/ |
| 15:21.44 | alkisg | dx_ob: I would guess that you let ubuntu manage mbr, and that you're constantly booting 3.16 because that's when the ubuntu grub was updated to see the debian installation |
| 15:22.05 | dx_ob | yes |
| 15:22.06 | alkisg | I.e. you have 2 grubs installed, and the ubuntu one is managing the mbr, and you need to update the grub in ubuntu, not in debian |
| 15:22.13 | dx_ob | i am updating grub too |
| 15:22.15 | alkisg | I.e. reboot in ubuntu and run update-grub |
| 15:22.32 | alkisg | Or run `sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc` in debian, to let the debian grub manage the mbr |
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| 15:24.37 | dx_ob | ok thnx |
| 15:24.50 | alkisg | np |
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| 15:58.01 | KaffeeJunky123 | what's the package for opencl support for AMD gpus? amd-libopencl1 doesn't exist in stretch anymore |
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| 15:59.58 | abrotman | Would it just be the Mesa ones since everyone is now using the radeon driver? |
| 16:00.06 | abrotman | "Everyone" :) |
| 16:00.22 | KaffeeJunky123 | Also, my RX580 is detected as a RX480, does that mean I need stuff from backports? |
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| 16:04.28 | KaffeeJunky123 | abrotman: clinfo fails on clGetPlatformIDs with mesa stuff installed, I also installed the AMD APP SDK, could that be causing trouble? |
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| 16:07.46 | towo` | polaris needs ROCm |
| 16:08.02 | towo` | https://rocm.github.io/ROCmInstall.html |
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| 16:10.23 | rakor | Hey there my torbrowser doesn't run anymore. I tried to delete it und rerun torbrowser-launcher to reinstall it. But it does not work, but hangs when "installing". Does anyone else have those problems? |
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| 16:10.40 | annadane | rakor, install the one from stretch-backports; known issue |
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| 16:11.21 | Emil | What compression tool/algo would you recommend for compressing many (over 2M) files in a directory structure? |
| 16:11.28 | rakor | Thanks annadane. I intalled it: torbrowser-launcher/stretch-backports,now 0.2.8-5~bpo9+1 amd64 [installiert] |
| 16:11.31 | Emil | Size of all files in the directory structure is around 20G |
| 16:11.38 | rakor | and have issues with this version |
| 16:12.50 | somiaj | Emil: There are lots of compression tools, do you want this for a backup, or do you want something that will uncompress if anything access the files? |
| 16:13.03 | somiaj | Emil: also what kinda of files are they, text files, music, vidoe, etc. |
| 16:13.38 | Emil | somiaj: png pictures |
| 16:14.01 | rakor | ok I'll try to just reinstall torbrowser-launcher from backports |
| 16:14.05 | somiaj | Emil: I think .png images are failry compressed in teh first place. I'm unsure what sort of real savings you'll get with the time commetment to compress them. |
| 16:14.17 | Emil | somiaj: mostly backup but if it's possible to access them from compressed state directly that would be prett cool |
| 16:14.27 | Emil | somiaj: png's are rarely compressed by default |
| 16:14.29 | Emil | iirc |
| 16:15.11 | somiaj | Emil: They are a binary format which is usually compressed. They usually use a lossless compress compared to other formats like .jpg -- this give better quality images, at cost of bigger size. |
| 16:15.23 | Emil | I do know the difference between the two |
| 16:15.35 | rakor | Damn. Same issue :( |
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| 16:16.28 | somiaj | Emil: anyways I do see some tools which you can use to compress .png images with a lossy compression, and this can save a decent amount of size. I don't know if using something like tar, and then compressing that with bz2 or some other compression algorithim would save you as much size as changing the images. |
| 16:16.56 | Emil | must be lossless |
| 16:17.02 | Emil | hmm |
| 16:17.23 | Emil | I'll proably just tar it into a .tar.bz2 |
| 16:17.31 | somiaj | I coudl be wrong, but I doubt you'll get much (maybe 20% -- wild guess) by compressing the .png images losslessly |
| 16:17.39 | KaffeeJunky123 | towo`: Is this available through the package manager? |
| 16:17.40 | somiaj | and I think it would be very time intesive to do |
| 16:17.42 | Emil | that's still convenient |
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| 16:18.00 | towo` | KaffeeJunky123, unable to read? |
| 16:18.57 | somiaj | Emil: I don't really know enough to give you better details. http://how-to.wikia.com/wiki/How_to_reduce_the_file_size_of_a_PNG_file -- suggest some lossless commands like pngcrush which is in the debian repo. |
| 16:19.18 | somiaj | Emil: trimage whiich it also suggests is in debian too |
| 16:20.54 | KaffeeJunky123 | towo`: I'm sorry, I was distracted by the manual saying it's for ubuntu xenial and didn't see that it may be installed on Debian this way too |
| 16:22.37 | alkisg | (06:14:17 μμ) Emil: somiaj: mostly backup but if it's possible to access them from compressed state directly that would be prett cool ==> man mksquashfs |
| 16:22.59 | alkisg | squashfs has a very good compression ration, very little file system metadata, and it immediately accessible by using mount |
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| 16:23.15 | alkisg | It supports xz, lzo, gzip and others |
| 16:23.19 | somiaj | alkisg: even on binary formats that already have some compression (for the ratio?) |
| 16:23.35 | alkisg | xz should be 10% or something wrt .png, but the key here is the metadata |
| 16:23.57 | alkisg | 20g of small png files take up a lot of space to the file system, because of the empty clusters, the file system metadata etc |
| 16:24.17 | somiaj | ahh yea, I hadn't considered minimizing the empty clusters due to blocksize. |
| 16:24.52 | alkisg | Of course I meant 10% less, not 10% of the original size :D |
| 16:25.51 | somiaj | how much cpu time is needed, my experience (with .jpgs, .mp3s, .mp4s, etc) was a very large amount of time for a small overall size savings. |
| 16:26.14 | somiaj | but I haven't tried this with .pngs, don't hav a situation I need them compressed at the moment. |
| 16:26.50 | alkisg | For example, compressing a whole debian installation (excluding /home) takes 10 minutes and it creates an image 2.5 times less than the original |
| 16:27.08 | alkisg | I don't have any other data, more close to the .png case |
| 16:28.13 | Emil | alkisg: and that squashfs is something I can just move around like files? |
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| 16:28.59 | alkisg | Emil: it's similar to .iso |
| 16:29.08 | alkisg | I.e. you can easily mount it, but it's mostly considered read-only |
| 16:29.20 | alkisg | That's why it's small, because it doesn't allow many things to do as a file system |
| 16:30.41 | alkisg | Emil: ah, of course the result.squashsfs image is a file that you can move around |
| 16:30.44 | alkisg | It's just a file |
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| 16:37.55 | Nekophone | Hey, I've been having this persistent problem with my desktop environment (Plasma 5) and I've been struggling all day to fix it. Can I just reinstall the plasma-desktop package? I don't care if I lose my settings at this point, I just want a working computer |
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| 16:38.22 | Nekophone | I'm on the latest Debian Testing btw |
| 16:38.44 | mtn | Nekophone: reinstalling the package won't fix config problems in your home folder |
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| 16:40.12 | Nekophone | Then is there any way to reset the config to what it was when it was installed? |
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| 16:40.39 | mtn | Nekophone: you can rename or delete the kde config files/folders |
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| 16:41.17 | Nekophone | That's what I've been trying, it's only made Plasma unable to start at all |
| 16:41.31 | Nekophone | Even after I restored the files |
| 16:41.48 | mtn | Nekophone: if you remove all of them, next time you start plasma you will get a clean fresh desktop |
| 16:42.09 | mtn | Nekophone: to test, make a new user and login to the new user |
| 16:42.38 | mtn | Nekophone: if you still have the problem, try asking on #debian-next |
| 16:43.21 | Nekophone | I did that, the new user worked once, but then I got kicked back to SDDM when I tried opening Firefox and now the.new user won't work either |
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| 16:43.38 | Nekophone | Thanks, I'll try there |
| 16:43.56 | somiaj | Nekophone: there are lots of various locations of files in $HOME, like .local, .config, etc that maybe used as well. One way to check this is create a blank user, with a blank $HOME and go from there. |
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| 16:46.14 | Emil | alkisg: nice |
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| 16:48.27 | Emil | The current plan is to pngcrush and then try that squashfs |
| 16:49.01 | Emil | alkisg: is there much overhead in reading files from the filesystem? |
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| 16:56.16 | alkisg | Emil: no, it's so fast that it's used for live cds and netbooted clients, and it's faster than if it was uncompressed |
| 16:57.43 | Emil | nice |
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| 16:59.27 | Emil | alkisg: what packages should I install? |
| 16:59.30 | Emil | squashfs-tools? |
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| 16:59.51 | Emil | Yeah seems like so |
| 17:00.12 | alkisg | Emil: yes |
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| 17:02.50 | Emil | God damn trimage |
| 17:03.01 | Emil | >Description-en: GUI and command-line interface to optimize image files |
| 17:03.04 | Emil | No you're fucking not |
| 17:03.17 | Emil | trying to use it from a commandline it requires x :D |
| 17:06.03 | themill | all it does is call pngcrush |
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| 17:07.48 | BluesKaj | Emil, nice language :/ |
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| 17:08.21 | Emil | alkisg: do you have a guide or do you have commands to use on the mksquashfs? |
| 17:08.23 | aegis | NSFW |
| 17:08.57 | alkisg | Emil: man mksquashfs is enough, it's pretty simple |
| 17:09.30 | alkisg | mksquashfs directory file.squashfs |
| 17:09.47 | alkisg | You can add -comp xz if you want a bit more compression |
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| 17:13.49 | Emil | alkisg: what's the extended attributes? |
| 17:14.03 | aegis | Anyone want to play Cards Against Humanity in #bitcoin-dating |
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| 17:14.42 | alkisg | Emil: do you know chmod? This is about something more, `man lsattr`, some attributes not used by default in linux installations |
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| 17:15.22 | misty5 | ok, so I've always thought that PAM_UNIX was resopnsible for checking /etc/passwd. But lowe and behold... that's actually implemented in glibc.... so wtf? >:(. It's in <shadow.h> and getspnam (const char*) |
| 17:16.30 | alkisg | misty5: afaik pam redirects the authentication calls to the appropriate "backend", which for passwd, is glibc, while it could also be ldap etc |
| 17:17.20 | Emil | alkisg: so something like: mksquashfs -comp xz -no-xattrs -all-root -keep-as-directory should be good? |
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| 17:17.44 | alkisg | Emil: sounds good, sure |
| 17:18.11 | Emil | alkisg: I'm wondering about the -all-root, though. I'd like to not have references to my own user |
| 17:18.18 | Emil | does squashfs store them? |
| 17:18.26 | alkisg | Afaik it stores only the uid |
| 17:18.39 | alkisg | So e.g. if yours is 1000,it's the same as millions of other installations |
| 17:18.49 | Emil | ah |
| 17:18.53 | Emil | so -all-root is unnecessary |
| 17:19.19 | Emil | and removing xattrs has no adverse effects if I really don't care about anything else but the content of the file |
| 17:20.03 | alkisg | Emil: I don't think you have any xattrs in your file system, if you don't know what that is. They're not used by default. |
| 17:20.16 | misty5 | pam_unix also checks at compile time if it's SELINUX enabled ... SELINUX shouldn't be dependent of that. |
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| 17:21.54 | alkisg | Emil: if your uid is not 1000, you can also use -force-uid and -force-gid |
| 17:23.26 | Emil | Lol ran out of inodes |
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| 17:23.51 | Emil | alkisg: alrighty, I'll add that in |
| 17:24.02 | Emil | is there a reasonable gui I could use? |
| 17:26.45 | alkisg | I don't know of any |
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| 17:35.01 | Emil | Okay, went with mksquashfs dir dir.squashfs -comp xz -no-xattrs -keep-as-directory -force-uid 1000 -force-gid 1000 |
| 17:35.10 | Emil | Lets see what happens |
| 17:35.21 | Emil | I bet it'll take some time since I used xz :D |
| 17:40.46 | Emil | alkisg: 40% done already :) |
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| 17:44.26 | KaffeeJunky123 | towo`: I found an easy way to install that rocm stuff, one can just install it from the amdgpu-pro driver installer |
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| 18:08.02 | Emil | alkisg: thanks for the help :) |
| 18:08.07 | Emil | alkisg: compressed down to 4.7G |
| 18:08.38 | alkisg | Emil: from? |
| 18:08.41 | alkisg | (you're welcome) |
| 18:08.43 | Emil | alkisg: 20G |
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| 18:08.51 | Emil | The png files and directories |
| 18:08.52 | alkisg | pngs? Wow :D |
| 18:09.09 | Emil | told ya :) |
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| 18:12.19 | alkisg | Emil: sudo mount -o loop,ro /path/to/image.squashfs /mnt |
| 18:12.44 | alkisg | (to see them as a folder) |
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| 18:17.39 | Emil | Yup |
| 18:17.39 | rakor | Hey there I need to create a selfgrowing img (like the raspberry sd-card-images). I took a look at rapbian, which does a resize2fs-job once with a rc-script and then removes this job. But resize2fs needs a grown partition. Can you tell me how this is done (that the partition has the whole size of the rest of the media). It's clear that the partition must be the last one, but how to unlimit it size in the |
| 18:17.41 | rakor | image? I found no resize of the underlying partition in the raspbian image. Manually I can do it. Thanks |
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| 18:27.21 | Sansar | Hello, is there a way to encrypt my newly mounted internal HDD to Debian after the install? |
| 18:27.54 | apollo13 | did you install debian on that hdd or is it just a data hdd? |
| 18:27.55 | Sansar | My SSD is encrypted accordingly with the options provided during the install but I lated mounted my HDD to Debia and it seems it is not encyrpted |
| 18:28.06 | Sansar | I installed debian on my SSD |
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| 18:28.59 | apollo13 | well there are way do encrypt in place, but I wouldn't do that without backups |
| 18:29.01 | apollo13 | see https://www.johannes-bauer.com/linux/luksipc/ |
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| 18:30.03 | Amnesia | question, I'm trying to login using docker, on debian stable, but It seems to be requiring gnome-keyring, which requires an X server |
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| 18:30.21 | Sansar | apollo13: Thank you, let me read that source you provided and try that |
| 18:30.23 | Amnesia | does anyone know how to login to a docker registry, without x ? |
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| 18:31.37 | apollo13 | Amnesia: " I'm trying to login using docker" what does that even mean? |
| 18:31.52 | apollo13 | how can one use docker to login? also generally docker login does not need X |
| 18:31.55 | Amnesia | login to a docker registry* |
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| 18:32.00 | apollo13 | I am pretty sure my servers don't have X :D |
| 18:32.24 | apollo13 | might be a setting somewhere |
| 18:32.41 | Amnesia | over here I'm receiving "Error saving credentials: error storing credentials - err: exit status 1, out: `No such interface 'org.freedesktop.Secret.Collection' on object at path /org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login" |
| 18:32.46 | apollo13 | https://github.com/docker/docker-credential-helpers#with-the-docker-engine |
| 18:32.51 | Amnesia | which is a hint that gnome-keyring has to be installed ;[ |
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| 18:34.09 | apollo13 | Amnesia: looks like a config issue on your end, my machine runs gnome keyring, but the keyring doesn't contain a docker password -- it is written to .docker/config.json here |
| 18:34.34 | Amnesia | most likely, I'm using the vanilla config though |
| 18:34.35 | Amnesia | :P |
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| 18:39.16 | alkisg | rakor: if i remember well, they just delete and recreate the partition, so that it takes the whole space |
| 18:39.36 | alkisg | rakor: since only the mbr is touched, the data remains, and resizing is done properly then |
| 18:40.44 | rakor | alkisg: Hmm... ok. I've tested this and it worked. I thought there would be some morge magic :) I could not find out hou to do this automatically doring one boot.... |
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| 18:55.14 | alkisg | rakor: you can do that from the initramfs |
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| 18:55.57 | alkisg | I.e. put a script in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount, and run update-initramfs |
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| 18:58.06 | rakor | cool :) Thanks I'll test this :) |
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| 19:14.36 | kingsley | Do the debian project's official rules say how a user, like me, might petition the leadership to review a previous decision? |
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| 19:16.14 | locrian9 | Y |
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| 19:16.46 | locrian9 | Sorry, hit 'Y' in here instead of another window I had open. |
| 19:17.17 | annadane | kingsley, which decision, you can try contacting the technical committee |
| 19:18.28 | kingsley | annadane: The decision to use systemd. |
| 19:18.42 | annadane | well, that's not going to be changed |
| 19:18.51 | annadane | but there are ways to not use systemd in debian |
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| 19:22.02 | alkisg | kingsley: I think devuan.org is about that |
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| 19:22.27 | alkisg | But personally I find it a very good thing, finally the distributions are using some common tools |
| 19:22.57 | alkisg | Hopefully it'll grow enough so that programmers won't need to know which distro they're programming for :D |
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| 19:35.13 | JackK | Any shell scripting ninjas on? I'm trying to pass kill -USR1 `cat /var/run/udhcpc.pid` 2> /dev/null in a script. I've tried echo kill -USR1 `cat /var/run/udhcpc.pid` 2> /dev/null also echo "kill -USR1 ` cat /var/run/udhcpc.pid` 2> /dev/null" and other combinations that I can think of .. no luck so far. |
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| 19:38.26 | dutchfish | JackK, generally, as root: kill -9 $(cat /var/run/myProcess.pid) |
| 19:38.45 | abrotman | pgrep |
| 19:39.11 | dutchfish | or pkill (by name) |
| 19:41.02 | dutchfish | in a script (dash) use `foo` instead of $() |
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| 19:46.05 | dutchfish | unless your sjebang states bash, then $() |
| 19:47.37 | JackK | It's dash |
| 19:48.16 | JackK | It's actually for dd-wrt, but I get in trouble stating that. Nobody seems to know though... It's a mystery :/ |
| 19:48.24 | JackK | I'll try your suggestions now though, thanks. |
| 19:49.31 | dutchfish | JackK, in case of doubt, ls -la $(which sh) |
| 19:49.53 | dutchfish | (for the commandline) |
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| 19:53.09 | dutchfish | alternatively, one that works on all in a script: pkill -F /var/run/myProcess.pid |
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| 20:03.26 | gubernator | I would like the Debian installer that does not require internet, and offers all the major DEs right off the bat. I have downloaded "debian-8.7.1-amd64-CD-1.iso" from the Debian website. Does this sound correct? |
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| 20:20.49 | dracc | gubernator, Yes it does. :) Might be only xfce on it though, I'm not sure. |
| 20:21.06 | dracc | I think you might need a DVD to get all the major ones. |
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| 20:27.13 | gubernator | dracc thanks... but i realize that's an old release! i'm going for current stable, 9. got it figured it now. and yes, i'm going with dvd image |
| 20:27.38 | dracc | gubernator, Great! :) |
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| 20:37.58 | qifan | yooo :> |
| 20:39.59 | qifan | does anyone know a chat appie, that allows, to see who is typing ... at the moment you look at status bar of disired channel? |
| 20:40.14 | qifan | was more interactive |
| 20:40.15 | qifan | :P |
| 20:40.26 | qifan | like discord for example |
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| 20:42.00 | dracc | qifan, Well.. Many? Any more requirements, like protocol and so on? Or just "chat app"? |
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| 20:43.13 | metastable | This doesn't seem like a Debian question. (Sorry.) |
| 20:43.29 | dracc | qifan, If you're asking for IRC, I don't know of any. Don't think the IRC protocol supports such information. |
| 20:43.30 | BCMM | qifan: not for IRC (what we're using here), if that's what you're asking |
| 20:43.36 | qifan | yeah you right |
| 20:43.43 | BCMM | qifan: as other people's clients won't be transmitting that information |
| 20:43.46 | metastable | #debian-offtopic might be more appropriate. |
| 20:43.58 | qifan | thanks yous :P |
| 20:44.22 | dracc | Thanks metastable, that channel name will come in handy! |
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| 20:54.14 | dracc | Is there any 'official' information available on what flags/options were used when building a package? |
| 20:54.24 | abrotman | in the source package |
| 20:54.46 | dracc | abrotman, Oh, nice! Any hints on how to extract those? |
| 20:55.05 | abrotman | dpkg: tell dracc about source |
| 20:55.20 | dracc | I'm sorry, I forget about the wonderfull dpkg. :( |
| 20:55.26 | dracc | thanks! |
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| 20:56.18 | dracc | !tell dracc about debian/rules |
| 20:57.08 | dracc | Awesome! It's almost as if someone had though of this.. ;D |
| 20:57.14 | dracc | thought* |
| 20:58.13 | dracc | I've used Debian on and off about 12 years and learned about this today. Makes me feel stupid. :D |
| 20:58.42 | abrotman | dpkg: tell dracc about selftell |
| 20:59.29 | dracc | abrotman, thanks, again. :) |
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| 21:15.23 | oo_miguel | why ftp.de.debian.org can not be reached via ipv6? |
| 21:15.37 | oo_miguel | what mirror should I use instead? |
| 21:15.59 | Dagger | because it has no v6 address in DNS. I have no idea why that is; try asking whoever runs it |
| 21:16.52 | Dagger | I'm using https://mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.debian.org/debian/ since it also has functioning https://. you might be able to find an alternate mirror closer to Germany in the mirror list though |
| 21:16.54 | oo_miguel | ah i see there is also an ftp2.de.debian org |
| 21:17.07 | oo_miguel | i will use this one |
| 21:17.10 | oo_miguel | thank you |
| 21:17.56 | SwedeMike | being an IPv6 zealot, my opinion is that ftp.de.debian.org should have same AAAA entry then as ftp2.de.debian.org, so at least IPv6 has a chance to work |
| 21:20.16 | Dagger | or maybe let's not rely on a v4-only server as the primary mirror for a country? :| |
| 21:20.19 | metastable | 'deb.debian.org', which I believe is a CDN? has an IPv6 record. stretch and later can use it for this purpose. |
| 21:20.47 | metastable | Releases jessie and prior can also use it, and it will http redirect you to an available mirror. |
| 21:21.11 | rozie | not sure if deb.debian.org is IPv6 aware |
| 21:21.53 | oo_miguel | it is |
| 21:22.28 | metastable | I already confirmed that deb. has a AAAA record, and its http redirects forward me to v6-capable servers. |
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| 21:23.06 | metastable | Hardly scientific, I know, but it seems a better option than aiming at a single mirror. |
| 21:23.10 | rozie | but does it sustain IP protocol version? |
| 21:23.37 | rozie | so, if it is reached by IPv6 will it redirect only to IPv6 enabled mirrors? |
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| 21:23.59 | metastable | That seems to be the behavior so far. |
| 21:24.33 | Dagger | W: Size of file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/deb.debian.org_debian-security_dists_jessie_updates_InRelease is not what the server reported 63113 15584 |
| 21:24.35 | Dagger | not a great start |
| 21:26.12 | Dagger | (worked fine on a second attempt though) |
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| 21:29.16 | Lyberta | I have a bash variable and I want to trim everything after and including a keyword, how to do this? |
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| 21:36.28 | aegis | Hi all, is there a way to setup debian to force certain ip destinations to use a specific proxy server:port ? |
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| 21:37.39 | dutchfish | aegis, the installer asks that if you want to use a proxy on install time |
| 21:38.06 | dutchfish | aegis, i dont know if that is only in expert mode tho. |
| 21:38.47 | dutchfish | aegis, for the rest it is up to your dhcp server and proxy |
| 21:38.50 | aegis | dutchfish: Oh okay... I don't think that is exactly what I'm looking for. |
| 21:39.28 | aegis | I want the system to detect that there is an attempt to connect to a specific external ip and route that traffic to a proxy that is running |
| 21:39.39 | aegis | so I'm guessing iptables is involved |
| 21:39.46 | dutchfish | aegis, portforwarding? |
| 21:40.14 | aegis | or maybe a route |
| 21:40.30 | dutchfish | aegis, or both, maybe aliassing is your thing too. |
| 21:40.49 | dutchfish | aegis, depends on your needs |
| 21:41.02 | rozie | aegis: why can't you use one proxy? |
| 21:41.56 | aegis | I don't want all the traffic to go through the proxy |
| 21:42.11 | rozie | but all apt traffic can go? |
| 21:42.17 | aegis | apt? |
| 21:42.35 | aegis | I think something like this is the answer: iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp -d webserver.intranet --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination localhost:10080 |
| 21:42.36 | dutchfish | aegis, right. I aliased that, so that certian addresses get routed differently, seomtimes even to other ports. |
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| 21:43.03 | rozie | gee, i must have mix it with previous topic |
| 21:43.49 | aegis | But I want it to do it for all ports to the destination... and I want it to still try the port is needs through the socks proxy |
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| 21:43.52 | dutchfish | aegis, your split brian dns server can handle the naming conventions |
| 21:44.31 | dutchfish | aegis, that worked out pretty well for me |
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| 21:45.16 | dutchfish | aegis, the rest is up to routes and iptables/ipv5tables |
| 21:45.24 | dutchfish | ipv6tables* |
| 21:46.01 | dutchfish | aegis, but start with a good plan |
| 21:46.48 | dutchfish | aegis, and i use my dhcp server to do the options inclined on the clients |
| 21:47.14 | aegis | I really don't think DHCP has anything to do with this problem |
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| 21:47.40 | dutchfish | aegis, partly, just keep it in mind you can use it |
| 21:47.40 | aegis | In fact, the proxy server is on the same machine |
| 21:47.46 | aegis | Okay thanks |
| 21:48.11 | dutchfish | aegis, dhcp option-rules |
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| 21:48.21 | dutchfish | yw |
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| 21:58.10 | kingsley | FYI: I asked the debian project's technical committee to review its 2014 decision to make systemd the default init manager. |
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| 21:59.35 | kingsley | You can read it at |
| 21:59.38 | kingsley | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=889493 |
| 21:59.43 | apollo13 | lol |
| 22:00.26 | apollo13 | kingsley: it's closed already anyways, what did you expect |
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| 22:01.57 | kingsley | apollo13: I expected a more substantive reply. |
| 22:02.31 | coruja | nobody is forced to use default packages and settings forever |
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| 22:04.07 | apollo13 | kingsley: on a vague bugreport like that? |
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| 22:04.43 | metastable | kingsley: Stop trying to instigate. If you don't want to use systemd, don't. |
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| 22:06.07 | a_duck | how should i test and work on bugs marked newcomer if i'm running stable? |
| 22:06.21 | kingsley | apollo13: If you happen to have the time, and are so inclined, I'd be interested in why you think my bug report is vague. It looks pretty clear to me. It has a clear subject. It has a list of reasons. It has references. But maybe I overlooked something. |
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| 22:06.57 | kingsley | metastable: I think there maybe some confusion. I'm not trying to instigate. |
| 22:08.08 | metastable | kingsley: I'm not confused in the slightest. We get it, you don't like systemd. Plenty of people don't. Plenty of people do. Debian chose its course. If you are really that adamant about this, Devuan could probably use a lot of help getting up and running. |
| 22:10.18 | Lyberta | how to remove all text after and including @ in a bash variable that has several lines? |
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| 22:12.20 | metastable | Lyberta: My immediate hackish solution would be to run the variable value through 'tr' to change the newlines to some other token character, cut or sed to slice off everything after the first @, and then tr again to change the token back to newlines. |
| 22:13.13 | metastable | But I am 99% certain that that's horrible and can be done much more cleanly. |
| 22:13.36 | apollo13 | kingsley: just to comment on 2.c; bugs are reported for literally every software on earth, how is that a reason to reevaluate anything? If you wanted to write it cleary you would have argued about individual bugs and given concrete examples why those bugs (or rather categories of bugs) should be an argument to reevaluate the decission |
| 22:14.07 | Lyberta | metastable, actually, I only need part of the first line, maybe I don't need to match newlines at all |
| 22:14.27 | Lyberta | the @ character is always in the 1st line |
| 22:14.45 | kingsley | metastable: Yes, it's true I dislike systemd. I agree that many share my sentiment. However, I am unaware of anything in debian's constitution that prohibits reviewing a potential change in course. |
| 22:14.49 | metastable | Lyberta: echo $thing | head -n 1 | cut -f1 -d@ |
| 22:16.23 | Lyberta | metastable, nice, thanks |
| 22:17.21 | metastable | kingsley: WHY should Debian expend time and resources on such a review? |
| 22:17.27 | metastable | kingsley: Because you ask them to? |
| 22:18.08 | kingsley | apollo13: Thank you for sharing your detailed thoughts. I agree that bugs are reported for most packages. However, systemd's seem to me to have turned out to be numerous and bad enough to warrant reviewing the 2014 decision. |
| 22:21.56 | kingsley | metastable: You reasonably asked why Debian should expend time and resources to review it's 2014 decision on the default init manager. Stability. |
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| 22:23.21 | apollo13 | kingsley: without more context you can easily say the same about sysvinit |
| 22:24.03 | annadane | anyway, i am 100% sure the decision to use systemd will not be reversed, but there's a process to it |
| 22:24.12 | annadane | i just don't remember what it is |
| 22:24.35 | annadane | you can bring it up, just don't be surprised when they decline |
| 22:25.08 | annadane | also, the technical committee is for disputes, so what i said earlier was wrong |
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| 22:27.12 | annadane | https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.debian-internals.html#id-1.4.6.5 see "policy editorial process", not sure whether systemd would count as such |
| 22:27.47 | annadane | but there are no new arguments as far as systemd is concerned; they've heard them all already |
| 22:27.56 | apollo13 | be that as it may, another change of init systems would get people running away from debian rather than towards |
| 22:28.03 | kingsley | annadane: Maybe systemd was disputed when the technical committee decided on it in 2014. |
| 22:28.24 | metastable | kingsley: Without yelling at you, I find your arguments and motives to be extraordinarily suspect. Please stop wasting everyone's time. |
| 22:28.36 | apollo13 | also what are the alternatives? literally nothing |
| 22:29.31 | hypn0 | devuan? |
| 22:29.49 | metastable | hypn0: We already suggested it. |
| 22:30.05 | hypn0 | he asked :-) |
| 22:30.17 | kingsley | annadane: Thanks for the link. |
| 22:30.54 | hypn0 | I don't see what they are arguing abt, sts |
| 22:31.13 | hypn0 | debian/devuan, everyones happy |
| 22:31.28 | metastable | hypn0: They're trying to get the Debian tech committee to reconsider having systemd as the default init in Debian. |
| 22:31.34 | annadane | you can also try contacting debian-policy@lists.debian.org |
| 22:31.44 | annadane | but again, i doubt it leads anywhere |
| 22:31.58 | hypn0 | but there devuan now too |
| 22:32.04 | hypn0 | there is |
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| 22:33.17 | kingsley | annadane: You wrote there are no new arguments for systemd. I humbly submit that time has passed and we now have a better idea of what to expect. I also humbly observe that different people are now on the technical committee, and may decide differently. WikiPedia's page on systemd says several of the deciders in 2014 quit soon after. |
| 22:33.35 | hypn0 | if debian became devuan, then there would be a systemd debian too? same as now :-/ |
| 22:33.39 | annadane | fair enough; not my decision to make in any event |
| 22:34.08 | annadane | i'm not trying to dissuade you from attempting it, just giving a (hopefully) neutral view on the probability of success |
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| 22:34.22 | metastable | hypn0: I'd stick with the systemd variant. |
| 22:35.31 | apollo13 | kingsley: and what do we expect? another init system which barely holds up like sysvinit? |
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| 22:35.47 | metastable | I do believe that GNOME now requires systemd as well? |
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| 22:36.07 | apollo13 | more or less |
| 22:37.15 | annadane | anyway, let's not turn it into a flame war, we can tell kingsley where to go if they're seriously about it, and leave it at that |
| 22:37.24 | annadane | s/seriously/serious |
| 22:37.29 | kingsley | apollo13: What sysvinit buggy for you? |
| 22:37.42 | apollo13 | kingsley: hell yes |
| 22:37.43 | metastable | Incredibly. |
| 22:38.05 | kingsley | That's interesting. |
| 22:38.10 | apollo13 | kingsley: don't get me wrong, I am not saying that systemd is not buggy, but saying that sysvinit is not buggy is the understatement of the whole year 2018 |
| 22:38.23 | kingsley | I've had the opposite experience. |
| 22:38.34 | apollo13 | aside from the sole fact that writing init.d scripts is a pain |
| 22:38.59 | apollo13 | which is really something systemd or even upstart got "somewhat" right |
| 22:40.16 | metastable | systemd has been a dream for me ever since we started migrating to RHEL7 in the datacenter I used to manage. |
| 22:40.57 | kingsley | metastable: Please elaborate. |
| 22:41.23 | kingsley | Or not, if you're not inclined. |
| 22:41.52 | metastable | kingsley: I used to manage two datacenters for an unnamed financial institution. We had probably 18,000 RHEL systems, of which we migrated about a third to RHEL7 in late 2014/early 2015. |
| 22:42.04 | metastable | The vast majority were VMs, obviously. |
| 22:43.03 | annadane | sounds like a nightmare |
| 22:43.04 | apollo13 | why was that obvious? *hmm* |
| 22:43.36 | metastable | apollo13: I'm... trying to imagine the footprint of 9,000 pizza boxes. |
| 22:44.06 | apollo13 | metastable: I am not having a hard time if I think as a financial instituion |
| 22:44.19 | metastable | apollo13: Wasn't a multinational. |
| 22:44.59 | kingsley | metastable: If you happen to have the time, and are so inclined, I'd be interested in why you wrote that "systemd has been a dream". Stabler? |
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| 22:45.16 | apollo13 | kingsley: anyways, I'd be more than happy how you'd do stuff like private tmp/home, cgroups etc in sysvinit without reinventing the wheel in every init script |
| 22:45.44 | metastable | kingsley: Anyway, the applications being developed had fairly complex initscripts under RHEL5/6, and random behaviors caused issues. The applications that were migrated to RHEL7 effectively ceased having service control-related issues overnight. |
| 22:45.46 | apollo13 | propery dependency management, generator units and what not would also be interesting |
| 22:46.18 | metastable | kingsley: So, yes, the service control related stability of our applications improved by about two orders of magnitude. |
| 22:46.58 | kingsley | metastable: Thanks for your thoughts. |
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| 22:47.24 | metastable | kingsley: And thats after controlling for relative quantity of RHEL7 vs pre-systemd. |
| 22:48.11 | apollo13 | well, RHEL 6 was funny anyways given that it was using upstart |
| 22:48.47 | metastable | Upstart, to me, never really seemed to know what it was trying to be. |
| 22:48.52 | metastable | shrugs. |
| 22:48.55 | apollo13 | hehe yeah |
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| 22:51.01 | apollo13 | although in all fairness, redhat did hide the fact that it used upstart pretty well |
| 22:51.11 | kingsley | metastable: Have you happened to have had the opportunity to use systemd on many debian VMs? |
| 22:51.58 | apollo13 | systemd behaves the same pretty much everywhere ;) |
| 22:52.11 | metastable | kingsley: Yes. My security lab is an array of Debian stretch VMs located in my home office and AWS. |
| 22:52.47 | kingsley | metastable: Have you been satisfied with its stability? |
| 22:53.04 | metastable | I wouldn't use it if I weren't. |
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| 22:56.46 | kingsley | Maybe the reason we've had different experiences is we use different distros. If I understand correctly, you use stable and Red Hat. I use packages from unstable. |
| 22:57.09 | metastable | You use unstable, or you use packages FROM unstable? |
| 22:58.41 | kingsley | From. http://morse.kiwi.nz/kingsley/lib/exe/detail.php?id=technology%3Astart&media=technology:package_ages_on_a_debian_computer.png |
| 22:59.12 | annadane | !frankendebian |
| 22:59.12 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help. |
| 22:59.17 | annadane | unless you used apt pinning |
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| 23:01.41 | kingsley | annadane: I understand your concern, and I believe you're not alone. However, I can say I've been running a Frankenstein box for decades, have found and reported dependency bugs, and gained some insight into the robustness of debian's packaging system. |
| 23:02.11 | metastable | kingsley: Be that as it may, that configuration is neither recommended nor supported, and is widely known outside of your experience to cause many, many problems. |
| 23:02.44 | kingsley | It may be that I've also discovered that systemd's package dependencies are less robust that other packages'. |
| 23:04.26 | kingsley | metastable: It's all true. |
| 23:04.51 | hypn0 | you didn't discovered not to run it like that :-) |
| 23:04.55 | metastable | This has been the case since long before systemd existed. |
| 23:05.10 | annadane | you may want to read http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html |
| 23:06.03 | metastable | kingsley: At this point, you appear to be cherry-picking things to try to support your existing opinion that "systemd is bad." |
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| 23:06.25 | metastable | kingsley: You've started with a dislike of systemd, and are now looking for evidence to support this. This is logically fallacious. |
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| 23:13.11 | cuddylier | I'm having an issue with Debian where it seems to timeout trying to get a link on a PXE boot install before the link is ready on a Juniper switch. |
| 23:13.24 | cuddylier | Anyone came across this before? Only affects Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS etc are all fine. |
| 23:13.55 | apollo13 | test with another switch? |
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| 23:19.23 | kingsley | metastable: It seems to me that your array of Debian VMs gives you an interest in maintaining systemd as the status quo. I'm OK with that. However, I humbly observe that others have had more problems than you. You can see this is so by the hundreds of bugs in the BTS, and criticism on WikiPedia. |
| 23:19.47 | xqb | why doesn't this render nicely? http://i.imgur.com/nDPygq1.png |
| 23:19.53 | xqb | it has something to do with debian chroot |
| 23:19.55 | xqb | I reckon |
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| 23:26.40 | dracc | I've built mesa-18.0.0-rc3 from source, glxinfo reports OpenGL version 2.1 . Any ideas on what might have gone wrong? |
| 23:27.46 | dracc | Source fetched from mesa3d.org, that is. |
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| 23:35.11 | annadane | kingsley, https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Some_safer_ways_to_install_software_not_available_in_Debian_Stable |
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| 23:40.58 | kingsley | annadane: Yes, there may be safer ways to install software than Frankenstein. However, it seems to me that an advantage is finding dependency bugs. Maybe I'll check systemd's next time. |
| 23:44.42 | abrotman | kingsley: please stop trolling, you should know better |
| 23:46.22 | kingsley | abrotman: I'm not. |
| 23:46.33 | abrotman | You are |
| 23:46.48 | abrotman | You've been around long enough to understand the folks that are generally in this channel. |
| 23:47.30 | abrotman | kingsley: you came in here, and told us you filed a bug about systemd ... There are other distros that don't use systemd, use those |
| 23:48.25 | abrotman | Not jusut a bug about systemd, but asked them to change something you don't personally like. Given the experience I have with your technical level, I'd guess most of your systemd-related issues are your own doing. |
| 23:49.14 | abrotman | and filing a bug in the BTS isn't the way to do that |
| 23:50.38 | kingsley | abrotman: Please remember that it's not just me. You can see this is so by the hundreds of bugs in the BTS, and criticism on WikiPedia. |
| 23:50.57 | abrotman | kingsley: there are also hundreds of bugs against sysv and upstart .. what's your point? |
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| 23:52.36 | kingsley | abrotman: Also, my understanding is that the technical committee expects to be contacted through the BTS. You can see this is so at https://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte. |
| 23:53.00 | abrotman | kingsley: and you know this isn't the correct channel |
| 23:54.40 | abrotman | which Ctte folks did you think you'd talk to here? |
| 23:54.53 | metastable | kingsley: I am at the limit of my patience with your constant pestering. Please stop. |
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| 23:55.27 | abrotman | eh? |
| 23:56.20 | kingsley | I'll answer abortman's question privately. |
| 23:56.36 | abrotman | no need |
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| 23:59.03 | awal1 | my shutdown process hangs sometimes, almost 1 minute bcoz of eth0 srvice/process not stoping. I never use eth0, jut wlan0 (wifi). can I just remove eth0 from interfaces or what? |
| 23:59.11 | abrotman | yes |
| 23:59.25 | awal1 | eth0 process i guess, since no unit for it |
| 23:59.32 | abrotman | awal1: what does it currently say in your interfaces file for the interface? |
