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| 00:04.05 | bitess | HotBeefDip: that comes down to personal preference. the .desktop file if you want integration in your desktop environment. |
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| 00:06.55 | bitess | RayReddington: you mean you copied the iso to the usb? |
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| 00:07.20 | bitess | RayReddington: then you check if it's bootable. |
| 00:09.38 | HotBeefDip | bitess: so...basically, if I don't build the .desktop file...any links I click in gnome won't open in the new stable firefox, instead they will open in the old ESR? |
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| 00:11.17 | bitess | only firefox-esr will be shown in gnome, yes. |
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| 00:14.06 | HotBeefDip | and to create a .desktop file...can I simply create a text document in a text editor and save it with a ".desktop" extension? |
| 00:15.35 | sdk | HotBeefDip: yep. |
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| 00:15.57 | raz_ | where is the wpa_supplicant configuration file |
| 00:15.58 | sdk | .desktop are plain/text file |
| 00:17.18 | raz_ | i got /etc/network ... /etc/NetworkManager .. etc. ... what is in charge of what ?? why so many configuration files |
| 00:17.19 | bitess | i don't like that the debian wiki suggests creating it in /usr/share/application i wonder if you could create a /usr/local/share/applications/ directory and put it there. |
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| 00:18.13 | HotBeefDip | thanks for all the help |
| 00:19.06 | raz_ | lxde comes with 2 wireless pictograms ... one is wicd the other i dont know whats it called...wtf is going on |
| 00:19.17 | sdk | bitess: You can do it but that would go against the Linux FHS. |
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| 00:20.37 | bitess | why? i don't think so. |
| 00:22.46 | sdk | raz_: /etc/network is where your network interfaces (e.g eth0, wlan0) are and /ect/NetworkManager is more for your connections stuff (e.g. like the wifi you are connected to) |
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| 00:23.10 | bitess | /usr/local/ if common for third party stuff. and better than mixing it with files the package manager put in /usr/share/applications/ if gnome actually reads it that is. |
| 00:23.32 | bitess | s/if common/is common/ |
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| 00:24.06 | sdk | bitess: oh I misread. I was sure you were talking about a third-party software you've installed. |
| 00:24.52 | bitess | i was talking about where to put the desktop file for HotBeefDip's upstream firefox ^^ |
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| 00:25.19 | raz_ | wpa_supplicant -u -s -O /run/wpa_supplicant <--- where is that running from ? there is no wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 00:25.28 | raz_ | i want to add -D option in there |
| 00:28.52 | HotBeefDip | bitess: I put it in /opt |
| 00:29.02 | raz_ | I did systemctl disable wicd.service and wicd still starts up on reboot |
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| 00:29.41 | raz_ | everything seems so messy |
| 00:30.09 | HotBeefDip | I did something wrong though, my .desktop file isn't working...I pointed the exec line to the path where the firefox binary file is, and I did the same for the icon path |
| 00:30.22 | HotBeefDip | but when I double click the .desktop file it won't launch |
| 00:31.21 | HotBeefDip | Exec=/opt/firefox %u |
| 00:31.23 | HotBeefDip | and |
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| 00:31.33 | HotBeefDip | Icon=/opt/firefox/browser/icons |
| 00:32.02 | HotBeefDip | aside from that, my .desktop file follows the guidelines on the Debian firefox page to a tee |
| 00:32.05 | bitess | so /opt/firefox is a directory and not a binary? |
| 00:32.15 | HotBeefDip | it's the directory that the binary is in |
| 00:32.22 | HotBeefDip | do I need to give it the actual bin file? |
| 00:32.25 | bitess | sure it shouldn't be Exec=/opt/firefox/firefox ? |
| 00:32.33 | bitess | yes |
| 00:32.38 | HotBeefDip | oh, right |
| 00:33.00 | HotBeefDip | I was comparing what I wrote to the .desktop file for firefox ESR...let me go back and make some changes |
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| 00:36.27 | HotBeefDip | awesome, it works now |
| 00:36.49 | HotBeefDip | BUT...any reason the icon doesn't show in my /usr/share/applcations folder? |
| 00:36.54 | HotBeefDip | the icon line looks like this now: |
| 00:36.58 | HotBeefDip | Icon=/opt/firefox/browser/icons/mozicon128.png |
| 00:37.35 | bitess | earlier you said you put the desktop file in /opt |
| 00:37.40 | bitess | that's why. ^^ |
| 00:38.48 | raz_ | how do i change the driver in wpa_supplicant |
| 00:40.04 | HotBeefDip | bitess: I'm confused...my .desktop file is in the folder /usr/share/applications...inside that file is a line that tells gnome the icon file is located in opt...is that not what I'm doing? |
| 00:41.20 | bitess | that sounds alright. |
| 00:41.52 | bitess | maybe you need to relog or reopen the file manager. i don't know, i'm not using gnome. |
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| 00:42.19 | HotBeefDip | k, I'll try relogging, thanks again |
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| 00:49.24 | MR-D05 | hi, what is going on here? https://imgur.com/a/KQZQN |
| 00:50.01 | annadane | MR-D05, i see no image |
| 00:50.10 | MR-D05 | yeah it seems to be taking forever to load |
| 00:50.50 | MR-D05 | try now |
| 00:51.16 | MR-D05 | see how I am root, and it says "Permission Denied" |
| 00:51.52 | somiaj | you will get that error if you the file depends on a lib that is not on your system. |
| 00:52.09 | metastable | Or the filesystem is mounted noexec. |
| 00:52.39 | somiaj | yea check for noexec, then use things like ldd and see if it is trying to find a lib that is not on your system |
| 00:53.02 | somiaj | file can sometimes help too |
| 00:53.09 | somiaj | make sure the binary is the correct type. |
| 00:54.25 | somiaj | actually nevermind, 'file not found' would be an error for a missing lib, but it could be something the script/binary is trying to do that is being denined, not the running of thescript. |
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| 01:07.25 | HotBeefDip | bitess: I figured out the problem...needed to reboot Debian ;-P |
| 01:07.27 | HotBeefDip | all good now |
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| 01:12.54 | awal1 | how do you solve 'Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0' ? |
| 01:13.04 | awal1 | xhost +localhost won't work |
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| 01:22.54 | awal1 | RoyK, will investigate that, ok :) |
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| 02:13.49 | teatime | I have a lenovo "thinkpad" L512⦠any thinkpad/etc.-specific stuff I should install? (like firmware, utilities, keysymdefs, etc.â¦) |
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| 02:18.32 | MR-D05 | hey, probably not the right channel, but how can I make a makefile or something similar if I have a long list of dependencies I want to install |
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| 02:20.11 | teatime | MR-D05: in what context... a long list of debian packages you want to install ? |
| 02:20.22 | MR-D05 | im trying to install oracle database |
| 02:20.33 | MR-D05 | in debian |
| 02:20.41 | MR-D05 | sudo apt-get install $(cat pkglist) |
| 02:20.45 | MR-D05 | i guess will work |
| 02:20.49 | teatime | indeed. |
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| 02:38.26 | Tom-_ | $(<pkglist) is quicker than cat :) |
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| 02:42.51 | teatime | probably would have done `cat pkglist | xargs sudo apt-get install` just because he has odd habits |
| 02:43.40 | Tom-_ | yeah xargs is good too :) |
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| 02:46.28 | foul_owl | How do I update chromium on Debian? I'm stuck on version 57 which came out March 2017 :( |
| 02:46.55 | foul_owl | Doesn't look like there is a backport for it either |
| 02:47.17 | teatime | Tom-_: so much easier to type than a for loop :) |
| 02:47.42 | teatime | foul_owl: you want some specific feature or something that isn't in that version? |
| 02:49.09 | foul_owl | Yes, prime video used to work but it doesn't now |
| 02:50.02 | teatime | uses firefox-esr to watch netflix. |
| 02:50.06 | foul_owl | https://chromium.woolyss.com/#debian sadly the same instructions as the Debian wiki |
| 02:50.28 | foul_owl | Sure, but now we are getting into the "why do you want to watch that show" territory |
| 02:50.35 | foul_owl | I just want to fix my issue :( |
| 02:50.56 | foul_owl | I tried firefox esr and that doesn't work either |
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| 02:51.24 | MR-D05 | dude oracle databse is the most bloated thing |
| 02:51.29 | teatime | foul_owl: I only asked because often people are specifically concerned about known security vulnerabilities in the "old" versions of software they find in Debian stable |
| 02:51.33 | MR-D05 | it's like jabba bloated |
| 02:51.40 | teatime | and those people are better served by understanding how debian backports security fixes |
| 02:51.48 | foul_owl | Understood |
| 02:52.02 | metastable | Sue me, I generally install Google's Chrome deb. |
| 02:52.08 | teatime | it does work fine |
| 02:52.19 | teatime | I've switched to chromium now though |
| 02:52.22 | foul_owl | I'll move to chrome if I must |
| 02:52.29 | foul_owl | If it's the only way forward here |
| 02:52.45 | foul_owl | But that is my use case, I want to watch videos on amazon prime, which requires the newest version of chromium |
| 02:52.46 | teatime | foul_owl: perhaps now would be a good time to learn how to make a debian backport :) |
| 02:52.55 | foul_owl | Fair enough |
| 02:53.05 | teatime | it's usually easy, at least if the package (whether at the right version or not) exists in testing |
| 02:53.15 | foul_owl | If that's the best way forward, I will proceed :) |
| 02:53.59 | foul_owl | Sounds like it's not currently possible to do what I need here |
| 02:54.09 | foul_owl | But that's fine, it's just part of Debian that needs improving |
| 02:54.19 | foul_owl | And I should volunteer to take on that task |
| 02:54.28 | foul_owl | Since it's built by volunteers :) |
| 02:54.52 | teatime | exactly :) |
| 02:55.11 | teatime | or you could build it from source (I assume that's an option?), but I'd guess that'd be a PITA |
| 02:55.34 | metastable | ,v chromium |
| 02:55.35 | judd | Package: chromium on amd64 -- wheezy: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 62.0.3202.89-1~deb9u1; buster: 62.0.3202.89-1; stretch-proposed-updates: 63.0.3239.84-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 64.0.3282.119-1~deb9u1; sid: 64.0.3282.119-1 |
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| 02:55.59 | teatime | .tar.gz source I mean. backporting to stable would probably be easier, even having to learn about doing that. and then you could totally upload it and benefit everyone else. |
| 02:56.02 | metastable | current stable has 64. |
| 02:56.13 | foul_owl | Awesome |
| 02:56.16 | foul_owl | I'll learn how to backport |
| 02:56.26 | foul_owl | I think that's the best way to give back also |
| 02:56.28 | foul_owl | Thank you!! |
| 02:56.30 | teatime | oh, 63.whatever is in stretch-proposed-updates |
| 02:56.30 | metastable | Why not upgrade to stable? |
| 02:56.41 | metastable | 64 is in stretch-security. |
| 02:56.44 | teatime | ah, nm, yes 64 is in stretch |
| 02:56.45 | teatime | sorry |
| 02:56.57 | foul_owl | Er...I tried to upgrade to stable, but having issues with my video card with that for some reason, it's on my list... |
| 02:57.04 | foul_owl | It's on the list for sure |
| 02:57.14 | metastable | Oh, what's the check-backports command.. |
| 02:57.57 | metastable | ,checkbackport chromium |
| 02:58.00 | judd | Backporting package chromium in sidâstretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, virtual. |
| 02:58.01 | foul_owl | In the meantime, just want to watch peep show haha |
| 02:58.10 | foul_owl | Which I highly recommend if you haven't seen it :P |
| 02:58.25 | metastable | ,checkbackport chromium --torelease jessie |
| 02:58.28 | judd | Backporting package chromium in sidâjessie/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: libspeechd-dev (>= 0.8.4), libharfbuzz-dev (>= 1.2.7). |
| 02:58.43 | metastable | Can't backport to jessie, it seems. Not easily, anyway. |
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| 02:59.27 | metastable | ,checkbackport libspeechd-dev --torelease jessie |
| 02:59.28 | judd | Backporting package libspeechd-dev in sidâjessie/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: libespeak-ng-dev. |
| 02:59.41 | metastable | Yeah, you'll be chasing dependencies like crazy, and probably resulting in nastiness. |
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| 03:35.19 | awal1 | how can I open several terminals (or multiple tabs in one terminal window) as root without having to login as root each time? |
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| 03:36.06 | teatime | awal1: could you be a little clearer... without having to su/sudo in each one? |
| 03:36.08 | teatime | or what? |
| 03:36.40 | awal1 | teatime, not having tu su in each one yeah |
| 03:37.09 | teatime | just to get the ball rolling, sudo sh -c 'xterm & xterm & xterm & >/dev/null 2>&1' |
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| 03:40.18 | awal1 | ok, will check that |
| 03:40.42 | awal1 | but not what I wanted :P |
| 03:41.19 | awal1 | not sure yet, ok. thanks teatime |
| 03:42.11 | teatime | awal1: this is kindof a shot in the dark, but you may find tmux (or gnu screen) helpful somehow |
| 03:42.24 | teatime | at least, perhaps in place of tabbed terminals |
| 03:43.22 | awal1 | teatime, i already have them but I prefer byobu+tmux |
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| 03:47.37 | Clien | i lost my file but i know the date create |
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| 03:47.43 | Clien | how can i find it by date |
| 03:47.44 | Clien | ? |
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| 03:58.27 | SatansOnlySon | use find with -newer[][] option |
| 03:58.37 | SatansOnlySon | Clien: |
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| 04:28.01 | awal1 | Clien, try suggestions https://askubuntu.com/questions/625584/how-to-show-all-files-created-on-a-specific-date |
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| 04:28.31 | awal1 | or use that as a reference |
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| 06:19.31 | michael2 | is anyone familiar with the "transmission-daemon" package? I was interested in its script to create a new debian-transmission user during the install |
| 06:22.17 | teatime | michael2: you just want to see the script? or it does somethimg you wish to do something similar to? etc. |
| 06:22.51 | michael2 | teatime: Im reading the script now... |
| 06:23.44 | michael2 | yes , I started to manually do the things in the script - specifically create the "transmission" user |
| 06:24.20 | michael2 | after installing the package, then I realised debian added a postinstall script to do all those things already |
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| 06:27.14 | michael2 | however - out of the box transmisson daemon wont start unless I disable authentication in the /etc/transmission-daemon/settings.json |
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| 06:28.28 | michael2 | so my question is, how do I use the user the .deb package installed? |
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| 06:36.26 | alkisg | michael2, you're supposed to go to 127.0.0.1:9091 and login with transmission/transmission |
| 06:36.53 | alkisg | That username/password is unrelated to the actual system user account, which is used for storing the movies |
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| 06:39.17 | michael2 | alkisg: so that must come after starting the daemon right? also once the daemon is running doenst it accept connections on that port from any client? |
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| 06:39.57 | alkisg | michael2, apt install transmission-daemon installs the daemon, and starts it, and it accepts from anywhere in 127.0.0.x, i.e. only from the local machine |
| 06:40.02 | michael2 | so I would have thought it wasn't necessary to authenticate? |
| 06:40.12 | alkisg | You can configure it otherwise if you start editing its configuration |
| 06:40.52 | michael2 | ah ok |
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| 06:42.28 | michael2 | do you know why debian create a new de-privileged user "debian-transmission" ? do torrents have the ability to perform arbitrary code execution on the local system? |
| 06:43.47 | alkisg | michael2, transmission-gtk writes to /home/your-username. But for all users, there's /var/lib/transmission-daemon, where only that user can write there |
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| 06:44.13 | alkisg | Services are started as a special user so that they have restricted access to only some dir |
| 06:44.48 | alkisg | Torrents cannot run code, but the transmission-daemon needs to have write access to write the movies somewhere |
| 06:44.55 | alkisg | It doesn't have access to your home dir |
| 06:45.34 | michael2 | yes, I saw all the lockdown on the filesystem perms for transmission and I like the idea, its just that its quite unusual right? |
| 06:45.55 | michael2 | to not run code under your normal user account? |
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| 06:46.47 | dudz | michael2: its not unusual in that its been done this way for as long as i can remember |
| 06:48.10 | michael2 | i mean unusual in that the way most programs (e.g. firefox, libreoffice, GIMP etc) get permission to write to a "downloads" folder is that they are ruuning under the human user account |
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| 06:50.16 | alkisg | michael2, the key here is "program" vs "service" |
| 06:50.35 | alkisg | firefox is a program, transmission-daemon a service |
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| 06:51.02 | michael2 | processes like webservers, fast-cgi interpreter, mysql etc will get their own de-privileged users - but they are capable of direct system code execution - so its obvious why you would wanto "sandbox" them |
| 06:51.56 | alkisg | It's exactly the same with transmission-daemon |
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| 06:54.12 | michael2 | so is the risk profile of services/daemons higher - not because they are "always on" but because they are receiving and fulfuling arbitrary requests from semi-trusted clients? |
| 06:54.43 | michael2 | and at risk of abusive requests? |
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| 06:55.24 | alkisg | michael2, web servers don't receive code from users, same as transmission doesn't |
| 06:55.33 | alkisg | And both run their own code server side |
| 06:55.40 | alkisg | There's no difference at all |
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| 07:00.38 | alkisg | michael2, so the only real reason that transmission has a separate user, is because it needs to write the movies to the disk somewhere, and doesn't have access to your home |
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| 07:01.11 | alkisg | I.e. the main reason isn't related to exploits, running code or anything, it's just a folder to write to |
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| 07:03.33 | michael2 | hmm, well Im glad the setup is all done - so thats sweet, but I did read here there is a security aspect: |
| 07:03.36 | michael2 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TransmissionHowTo#line-102 |
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| 07:05.10 | alkisg | michael2, if a malformed torrent manages to run code locally, it's already a HUGE security issue. Forcing it to run as "transmission-daemon" instead of "root" makes it a bit better, sure, but that's just an additional precaution |
| 07:05.25 | alkisg | Kind of like air bags. They won't always save your life, but it's good to have them. |
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| 07:06.13 | michael2 | yeah, thats how I saw it and thats why I started the process of creating the deprivileged user |
| 07:07.01 | michael2 | after seeing how much work/setup there is in the .deb installer - Im relieved I didn't have to do it all now |
| 07:07.14 | alkisg | Yeah you don't need to do anything manually |
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| 07:14.15 | [2ge] | hi guys, I got a bit problem with "/usr/bin/numactl --cpunodebind=1 --membind=1 /usr/bin/mysqld_safe", in numastat -p $(pidof mysqld) I can see it is still using 2 nodes |
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| 07:23.15 | kuk | uk> hi guys im new tro python and im tryiong to chage color of the font each second it counts. plz help/point me in thee right direction! |
| 07:23.18 | kuk | <kuk> code:import tkinter as tk |
| 07:23.22 | kuk | <kuk> #label = Label(root, text="PASS", bg="green", fg="black", font=(None, 15), height=50, width=50) |
| 07:23.24 | kuk | <kuk> color="yellow" |
| 07:23.26 | kuk | <kuk> class ExampleApp(tk.Tk): |
| 07:23.28 | kuk | <kuk> def __init__(self): |
| 07:23.30 | kuk | <kuk> tk.Tk.__init__(self) |
| 07:23.32 | kuk | <kuk> self.label = tk.Label(self, text="", width=10, font=(None, 25), bg="black", fg=color) |
| 07:23.34 | kuk | <kuk> self.label.pack() |
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| 07:26.28 | Voldenet | what a crazy python man :D |
| 07:27.24 | alkisg | kemisten: don't paste many lines here, the bot will kick you |
| 07:27.32 | alkisg | Also for python questions, try asking in #python |
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| 07:39.21 | apus | hi, i want to cross-compile for the raspberry pi 3. can i somehow utilize the multiarch feature of debian (dpkg --add-architecture ...) ? otherwise the only toolchain that i've found so far is github.com/raspberrypi/tools. it has a sysroot folder per compiler, but there are only a few basic libraries there. can anyone point me in the right direction? |
| 07:39.34 | jim | kemisten, there are several python tutorials out there, some for new programmers, some for programmers with some experience with another language... do you consider yourself a new programmer? |
| 07:40.38 | jim | apus, maybe some cross commpilers are already packaged... otherwise, you might have to build one |
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| 07:42.46 | apus | the github.../tools gives me a cross compiler, i'm just limited to the libraries that come with it. i would have liked to be able to install raspberry-pi3 ARM packages alongside my 64bit and 32bit stuff, so that i can extend what comes with it |
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| 07:49.25 | alkisg | apus: I don't know, but another thing you may want to consider, is using an armhf chroot, where you can "natively" compile for rpi3, while inside your x64 box |
| 07:49.38 | alkisg | qemu-system-arm allows that |
| 07:51.03 | apus | alkisg: that sounds nice. can i utilize the raspberrypi package repo there, so i don't have to compile the whole base system |
| 07:51.19 | alkisg | apus, of course |
| 07:51.32 | alkisg | That's basically how I manage and netboot my rpis |
| 07:52.01 | apus | do you perhaps have a tutorial/howto or any logs of how to set it up? |
| 07:52.23 | teatime | alkisg: are you using raw debian on them? |
| 07:52.35 | teatime | alkisg: I would also be plenty interested, if you feel like over-sharing ;) |
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| 07:53.14 | alkisg | Guys sorry no, the tutorial I've written about it is too ltsp-oriented to help non-ltsp users... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/RaspberryPi |
| 07:53.37 | teatime | ty for the link. |
| 07:53.52 | alkisg | The only major difference would be the kernel, of course, not the package space |
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| 07:54.38 | alkisg | The end result is "sudo chroot /path/to/armhf-chroot" and then dpkg --print-architecute prints armhf, you can apt-get install things etc |
| 07:55.00 | apus | alkisg: would it be possible to use a raspbian (for example) image as starting point? |
| 07:55.06 | alkisg | Yes |
| 07:55.43 | kemisten | Hi im writng a gui countdown timer and i want the numbers tochage color each second. How can i do that? Im prettyt sure i can use an array containing the colors bbut ive got no idea how to use nexxt element aadffter each second. heres my code so far:http://codepad.org/LEy7y2SA |
| 07:55.48 | alkisg | I remember I've done that, I'm not sure if I had to install the qemu binary in the chroot or if it played out of the box |
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| 07:58.12 | apus | alkisg: i'll read it all and see if i can figure it out. thank you for your help !! |
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| 07:58.57 | apus | hm this is ubuntu, is it also possible for debian? |
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| 08:01.43 | alkisg | apus: sure |
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| 08:08.48 | first-order | Isn't most Ubuntu stuff interchangeable with Debian from my understanding? |
| 08:09.02 | first-order | Aside from maybe using PPAs and such, which is a bad idea? |
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| 08:20.28 | HotBeefDip | I think the answer to this is obvious, but here I go: if I install the latest stable Firefox (i.e. not the ESR that's included with Stretch) and I then install the gnome extensions plugin for that stable Firefox...and then use that extension to add features to my gnome desktop...that could cause problems, right...? |
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| 08:24.18 | alkisg | first-order: yeah, all .deb-based distros are pretty much the same; you can't swap packages because of different freeze versions, but the same techniques apply |
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| 08:25.20 | alkisg | If we could convince a change to debian policy to freeze every two years, and then release when it's ready... we could even exchange packages because they'd have the same versions |
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| 08:31.17 | kemisten | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:31.43 | teatime | kemisten: try ##programming , this channel is for Debian user support. |
| 08:32.42 | kemisten | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:33.16 | teatime | what the hell. |
| 08:33.24 | first-order | Although unless I'm wrong, a stable Debian release should be supported longer combining its three support phases than a Ubuntu LTS release. |
| 08:34.18 | first-order | Eg. I should safely be able to use Stretch for a long time going through the stable, oldstable, and LTS phases. |
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| 08:38.06 | first-order | Which Wheezy is in LTS right now and Jessie is in oldstable. |
| 08:38.12 | kemisten | whats the best python gui creator tool? and where can i find it?? |
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| 08:39.33 | teatime | try #python |
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| 08:41.50 | sacarde | hi |
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| 09:00.48 | f-a | hello, I am trying to modify a module parameter with `modprobe thinkpad_acpi volume_control=1` |
| 09:01.14 | f-a | but then when I `cat /sys/module/thinkpad_acpi/parameters/volume_control` I get "N" |
| 09:01.25 | f-a | what am I doing wrong? |
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| 09:05.36 | teatime | f-a: I beleive you would need to unload the module first with e.g. modprobe -r, but that is likely to fail |
| 09:06.08 | f-a | teatime: is it one of those things I should modify at boot, really? |
| 09:06.47 | teatime | perhaps you want to be doing this in a file in /etc/moprobe.d/ (or /etc/modules), then do `sudo update-initramfs`, then reboot, thus setting the options at module-load time. |
| 09:06.54 | teatime | f-a: aye, usually. |
| 09:07.48 | teatime | f-a: there's a bit of info on the format of those config files in `man 5 modules` |
| 09:08.15 | Kelsar | some modules allow writing to the sysfs files, dunno about that one, you can try it |
| 09:08.23 | teatime | (now, I don't know anything about thinkpad_acpi in particular, so I cannot tell you if e.g. 1 is a sensible value, etc.) |
| 09:08.40 | f-a | teatime: I took it from https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/plain/Documentation/laptops/thinkpad-acpi.txt |
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| 09:08.58 | teatime | f-a: excellent. that is where I was going to tell you to look :) |
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| 09:09.53 | f-a | Kelsar: I don't think this is the case, cat > gave me permission errors |
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| 09:10.19 | Kelsar | why cat? echo -n |
| 09:10.36 | f-a | sorry, echo |
| 09:10.57 | teatime | kemisten: why echo -n? |
| 09:11.08 | teatime | oh, nm |
| 09:11.15 | teatime | needs sleep, he supposes. |
| 09:11.16 | teatime | https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/plain/Documentation/laptops/thinkpad-acpi.txt |
| 09:11.22 | teatime | agggh, mis-paste. |
| 09:11.35 | teatime | anyway, they do seem read-only. |
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| 09:17.20 | alkisg | f-a: you did read there that volume_control is not about the volume keys, right? |
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| 09:20.33 | f-a | alkisg: my goal is to make volume (or better, the volume from that specific card) controllable via cli. I thought enable read/write would have been a step in that direction, am I wrong? |
| 09:21.31 | alkisg | f-a: you are in the wrong path; there's a normal AC97/HDA mixer that you can use to control the volume, from cli/gui |
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| 09:21.52 | alkisg | And it would be the same in any sound card, not specific to thinkpads |
| 09:22.09 | f-a | alkisg: almost! |
| 09:22.20 | alkisg | Well, the control names may vary a bit |
| 09:22.30 | f-a | I can set my HDA AD1981 to 100% (Master) and *still* the volume would not be max |
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| 09:22.54 | alkisg | And what is the way to put it to "max"? |
| 09:23.08 | f-a | by those pesky grey volume buttons |
| 09:23.21 | f-a | I can select `29 ThinkPad Console Audio Control` in alsamixer but not modify it! |
| 09:24.08 | alkisg | f-a: read this paragraph: The ThinkPad UI is for the console audio control to be done through the volume keys only, and for the desktop environment to just provide on-screen-display feedback. Software volume control should be done only in the main AC97/HDA mixer. |
| 09:24.40 | alkisg | I don't have a thinkpad to test with, but they claim that the volume should be set from the mixer |
| 09:25.45 | f-a | alkisg: you can set the volume through HDA mixed, but (I think) it is then fed in that thinkpadCA control |
| 09:26.04 | f-a | so, say, you can have a 100% Master in alsa *and no audio* because you pressed mute on the grey controls |
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| 09:27.48 | alkisg | f-a: also note that in the end it says "volume is controllable only on older models" |
| 09:28.01 | alkisg | And that only muting is controllable in newer models |
| 09:28.49 | alkisg | So it sounds strange that they would allow the hotkeys to affect the volume of the console audio part, after the mixer |
| 09:29.31 | alkisg | Try cat'ing all those sysfs variables, before and after you max the volume, and see which parameters get changed there |
| 09:29.36 | f-a | this is an x60s, don't know if it qualifies as "old" |
| 09:29.58 | Hooloovo0 | yes |
| 09:30.02 | Hooloovo0 | that is way old |
| 09:30.30 | Hooloovo0 | well, not way old, still 64 bit |
| 09:30.37 | Hooloovo0 | but still 10 years old |
| 09:30.38 | f-a | nope, 32 |
| 09:31.09 | Hooloovo0 | core 2 duo cpus are all 64 bit |
| 09:31.19 | Hooloovo0 | and that's the cpu that's in the x60s |
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| 09:33.28 | f-a | Hooloovo0: |
| 09:33.28 | f-a | f@x60s:~$ lscpu |
| 09:33.29 | f-a | Architecture: i686 |
| 09:33.29 | f-a | CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit |
| 09:34.03 | Hooloovo0 | I'm almost positive that's because you're running a 32-bit kernel on it |
| 09:34.35 | f-a | then I would be very silly, since I have installed 32bit versions since ages |
| 09:35.34 | Hooloovo0 | anyway it's not important, it's old, but still should certainly supported |
| 09:35.41 | Hooloovo0 | especially being a thinkpa |
| 09:35.44 | Hooloovo0 | d |
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| 09:39.37 | f-a | alkisg: "all those sysfs variables" you mean in /sys/module/thinkpad_acpi/parameters? |
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| 09:56.39 | alkisg | f-a: exactly |
| 09:57.06 | alkisg | `grep . /sys/module/thinkpad_acpi/parameters/*` before and after you change the volume, and see what changes there |
| 10:00.20 | hypn0 | do thinkpads have extra support :-/ |
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| 10:12.08 | jim | extra support for what? |
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| 10:21.16 | apus | is there a way to speed up a chroot based on qemu-user-static for arm? this emulation is sooo slow |
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| 10:22.49 | NvpnD | hi need help abaut debion install on pc, i donât canât install |
| 10:23.12 | NvpnD | whay? |
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| 10:36.02 | hypn0 | thinkpads jim a couple of messages earlier |
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| 11:28.38 | Iridos | since the stretch update, when I close the laptop lid, something other than xscreensaver (which is also running) locks the screen. Different than xscreensaver, it forces me to re-type my username. any idea what that is? |
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| 11:32.58 | no_gravity | Good Morning |
| 11:33.00 | no_gravity | So I tried the 'bridged' network mode in VirtualBox yesterday. Then the guest can access the whole network. How would one make the guest accessible from the host but not the other way round? |
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| 11:39.30 | teatime | there's basically 3 standard configurations: bridged, NAT'd, and host-only |
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| 11:40.07 | teatime | NAT'd and host-only are almost the same; VM can communicate with host, the difference is whether the host NATs and routes that traffic out to the internet, or filters it. |
| 11:41.13 | teatime | hrm, it looks (at a quick glance) like virtualbox's network configuration GUI has the "host-only" configuration as an explicit option. so, poke around in that? |
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| 11:43.08 | no_gravity | Yeah.. looks like you need 2 adapters then. One NAT and one Host-only. |
| 11:43.57 | teatime | You can certainly have two, and yes you need to setup generally one "network" for each of the 3 network types (that you are going to use) |
| 11:44.21 | teatime | but you can assign and re-assign VM virtual NIC interfaces to whichever whenever |
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| 11:44.48 | no_gravity | Yup |
| 11:44.54 | teatime | so you can have a VM that is hooked up to both the NAT and host-only networks, and then remove it from the NAT network, and then maybe add it to the bridge'd network, etc. |
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| 11:48.08 | no_gravity | Strange, on one of my machines VB suggests 512 MB Ram for a Debian VM and on the other it suggests 768. |
| 11:48.59 | jim | vb, visual basic? |
| 11:49.05 | no_gravity | VirtualBox |
| 11:49.18 | jim | oh ok |
| 11:49.35 | jim | what cpu? |
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| 11:50.21 | no_gravity | The host? i7 |
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| 11:51.07 | jim | is "one of my machines" and "the other" both vms on the same host? |
| 11:51.19 | hasdf | does this sound crazy or ok? Raid1 + ssd bcache > Luks > ZFS |
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| 11:53.08 | jim | hasdf, what do you want to accomplish with it? |
| 11:53.39 | hasdf | jim, desktop machine. need it to be encrypted, want to use snapshots |
| 11:54.08 | hasdf | setup now is Raid1 > Luks > LVM > ext4 & SSD > Luks > LVM > ext4 |
| 11:54.11 | jim | because the thing you're going to use all that for is? |
| 11:54.53 | hasdf | jim, I don't understand the question - sorry |
| 11:55.20 | jim | you have this computer thing... |
| 11:55.30 | jim | it has real storage... |
| 11:55.40 | jim | it's arranged in a particular way... |
| 11:55.49 | jim | what purpose does it serve? |
| 11:55.53 | jim | what use case? |
| 11:56.20 | no_gravity | I wonder if 512 MB is enough for Debian 9. |
| 11:56.50 | hasdf | jim, it's the desktop box I sit before |
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| 11:57.52 | hasdf | jim, doing kind of everything from libreoffice to kvm host |
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| 12:00.55 | no_gravity | It's funny that Debian asks for a domain name during setup. |
| 12:01.12 | jim | hasdf, the performance characteristics you might want for one thing you want to do, might be different, or even mignt conflict with the performance characteristics of another |
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| 12:05.17 | dff | rip bot |
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| 12:05.59 | dff | wb bot |
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| 12:09.49 | Rembo | hello everyone, can someone recomand me a solution so i can be able to mount same linux partition on multiple windows systems? |
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| 12:11.40 | apus | Rembo: the reason behind this is? share it with samba? is there a special reason you say "mount" ? |
| 12:11.41 | no_gravity | Rembo: Does windows support sshfs? |
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| 12:14.12 | metastable | And does "multiple" windows systems mean multiple at the same time? |
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| 12:15.10 | decuser | is there a way to "use secure memory" so that gpg doesn't complain all the time? |
| 12:15.24 | decuser | oops |
| 12:15.36 | decuser | freebsd problem, not deb... |
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| 12:18.19 | no_gravity | What is the normal way to shut down a terminal only debian? Type "halt" and then when you see "system halted" power off the machine? |
| 12:18.53 | jim | I usually use "halt |
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| 12:19.47 | jim | it's making an effort to tell you when it's done shutting down.. it should be safe to remove power... |
| 12:20.05 | jim | also, do you have acpi? |
| 12:20.08 | no_gravity | jim: ok |
| 12:21.17 | jim | if it says that, then probably the acpi thing (which can remove power when it's shut down) isn't set up yet, or there's not hardware that can do that |
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| 12:21.40 | hypn0 | the monitor signal normally ends? power stops to system? |
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| 12:23.39 | no_gravity | Strange. I created a host-only network in VirtualBox and added a second network adapter 'Host-only Adapter' to the machine. But it's not visible from within the vm. |
| 12:24.09 | metastable | I generally use 'poweroff.' I believe that's a symlink, though. |
| 12:24.42 | metastable | I am led to believe that halt halts the system, while poweroff uses an ACPI instruction to turn the system off as well. This may be old or incorrect information. |
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| 12:29.05 | no_gravity | Strange, I noticed that even with just a NAT adapter, a VirtualBox guest can access the whole lan. ping/ssh into every machine on the LAN. Why is that? That seems like a bad thing. |
| 12:30.03 | metastable | Same idea as you being able to ping most anything on the internet. NAT protects what's "inside," not outside. |
| 12:31.11 | no_gravity | metastable: I don't see why a guest would need access to the lan of the host. |
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| 12:32.12 | metastable | Plenty of reasons why it would. Internet access is one example. Again, NAT does not protect the outside network. It's not designed to. |
| 12:32.28 | no_gravity | metastable: It could have internet access without having access to the LAN. |
| 12:32.50 | metastable | And how would you propose it does so? Its gateway to the internet is in the host's LAN. |
| 12:33.28 | teatime | no_gravity: the usual command you'll find in guides is "shutdown -h now", which should poweroff the system. /sbin/halt, /sbin/poweroff, and /sbin/reboot all work to halt/poweroff/reboot, respectively. or you can use whatever the actual systemd command is, which I can't remember, and my previous options are all wrappers for that now & so should all have consistent behavior. |
| 12:34.07 | teatime | (I guess it's just systemctl {halt,poweroff,reboot}) |
| 12:34.27 | no_gravity | teatime: Ah, yes, 'shotdown -h now' it's been a while since I used that. |
| 12:34.43 | teatime | -h to power-off, or -r to reboot. |
| 12:34.48 | teatime | halt is rarely what you want. |
| 12:36.35 | no_gravity | Yeah, 'shutdown -h now' rules. |
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| 12:39.13 | metastable | no_gravity: If you don't want your VMs to have access to the host's LAN, there are ways to do that. Set up an internal-only network, with your host acting as a gateway. Your NAT network, however, is functioning exactly as NAT is intended to. |
| 12:39.58 | no_gravity | metastable: With a host only network, the guest cannot access the internet. |
| 12:39.59 | Rembo | how can i add multiple ip's on debian 9 ? |
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| 12:40.13 | metastable | no_gravity: By default, no. |
| 12:40.53 | metastable | no_gravity: But you can use the host as a router for that traffic, if configured properly. You can then configure forwarding rules on the host to deny traffic to the host's LAN, save for the gateway to the internet. |
| 12:41.01 | no_gravity | I added port forwarding to the NAT adapter now. That seems the best way to ssh into the guest. |
| 12:41.16 | no_gravity | metastable: Yes, true. I'm too lazy to touch the router though. |
| 12:41.30 | metastable | You wouldn't have to touch your gateway router. |
| 12:41.56 | metastable | Anyway, the point is that NAT isn't designed to protect the outside network from the hosts within the NAT network. Rather the other way around. |
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| 12:42.48 | no_gravity | metastable: Yeah. I see that as a weakness in the whole setup. When you use a VM to try out 3rd party code, then it should have only access to what you grant it access to. No need to expose the LAN. |
| 12:43.19 | metastable | no_gravity: Then don't put it in a NAT network. You're expecting NAT to do something that isn't its function. |
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| 12:43.44 | no_gravity | metastable: Well, the 3rd party code needs internet access. |
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| 12:44.12 | metastable | If your third-party code needs internet access, but you don't want it touching the rest of your LAN, then you need to set it up that way. The components are doing exactly what it says on the box. :P |
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| 12:44.55 | enleth | Hi. What's the most elegant way of defining a custom link scope route for a network interface under Stretch? Anything better and more convenient than just whipping out a systemd unit with Before=network.target? I need the equivalent of "ip route add 217.182.200.254 dev eth0" and the catch is that this address is completely outside the network configured on this interface. yes, this is stupid and should not |
| 12:45.01 | enleth | be necessary, I know. but it's how OVH handles extra IPs on dedicated servers and there's nothing I can do about it. |
| 12:45.29 | enleth | so the regular /etc/network/interfaces syntax doesn't handle this case I think |
| 12:45.40 | metastable | Oh god, OVH. |
| 12:45.56 | enleth | metastable: sorry for triggering the PTSD |
| 12:45.59 | metastable | I was halfway through reading and thought "this sounds like OVH's broken setup." |
| 12:46.33 | metastable | Basically, you're trying to define a next-hop interface to reach your gateway IP just before the interface comes up. |
| 12:46.38 | metastable | Right? |
| 12:46.49 | enleth | yes, the next step is setting that IP as a default gateway |
| 12:47.13 | enleth | to completely short-circuit automatic routing at the rack level |
| 12:47.38 | enleth | they're doing this so they don't have to issue extra IPs in sets of 3, which would enable actually configuring a proper network with one usable address |
| 12:47.56 | metastable | Well, sets of four, but yeah. |
| 12:48.01 | enleth | right. |
| 12:48.10 | enleth | makes the IPs cheap, and this is the only good thing one can say about this setup |
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| 12:48.46 | enleth | anyway, I know how to configure it manually, and it works, but I'm not sure what's the Right Way(tm) of making it persistent on a modern Debian system |
| 12:49.05 | metastable | enleth: Add this to the interface config in /e/n/interfaces: |
| 12:49.19 | metastable | pre-up ip route add 217.182.200.254/32 dev $IFACE |
| 12:49.27 | teatime | there's the pre-up, post-up, pre-down, post-down, etc. |
| 12:49.29 | teatime | yiss |
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| 12:49.40 | metastable | Keep it as is. $IFACE gets set to the interface's name automatically, you don't have to change that variable. |
| 12:49.52 | teatime | neat, TIL something new/useful. |
| 12:50.03 | enleth | ok, all clear, just invoke iproute2 using pre-up |
| 12:50.10 | metastable | Yup. |
| 12:50.20 | enleth | now that presents an interesting challenge - replacing the current default route |
| 12:50.23 | metastable | For housecleaning purposes, you might add a post-down that destroys that route. |
| 12:50.24 | enleth | that's the next step |
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| 12:51.00 | metastable | You can do a 'post-up ip route replace default via (gateway IP)' I think. |
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| 12:51.14 | enleth | TIL there's ip route replace default |
| 12:51.17 | enleth | didn't know that |
| 12:51.37 | metastable | This is totally SOP. By that I mean "seat of pants," not "standard operating procedure." |
| 12:51.48 | metastable | The only reason I know any of this was my brief and horrid experience with OVH. |
| 12:52.18 | metastable | You're welcome to pastebin your interfaces file so I can try to help you tweak it. |
| 12:52.34 | enleth | this actually seems to be working, I think I'll be able to handle it |
| 12:52.38 | enleth | I'll know in 10 minutes or so |
| 12:53.11 | metastable | Remember to add inverted down instructions to gracefully destroy the routes so that you can properly ifup/ifdown the interface. |
| 12:53.52 | enleth | I'm not sure how to gracefully restore the DHCP-issued default gateway on another interface without hardcoding it |
| 12:54.08 | enleth | I mean, I know its address, it's my hypervisor doing the virt-nat network |
| 12:54.17 | enleth | I could hardcode it |
| 12:54.23 | enleth | just wondering if there's a better way |
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| 12:54.59 | enleth | maybe just force-restart the internal interface after the external one gets ifdown'd? |
| 12:55.29 | enleth | so that it re-requests DHCP and sets itself up properly including the internal gateway |
| 12:55.36 | metastable | wat. |
| 12:56.42 | enleth | this is a VM, it's got two network interfaces, one is on an internal virtual switch with DHCP available (dnsmasq on the hypervisor), one is bridged to the hypervisor's external network interface |
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| 12:57.09 | enleth | when that VM boots, first it configures the internal interface through DHCP, which includes setting up a default gateway through the hypervisor |
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| 12:57.39 | enleth | I need to replace that with the OVH gateway on the external if anyway, and that was my initial question |
| 12:58.41 | metastable | Does the OVH gateway's IP change? |
| 12:58.56 | metastable | Alternatively, do you control the DHCP server on the hypervisor? |
| 13:00.05 | enleth | I'm not sure, but the questions you just asked suggest to me that I did not describe the problem clearly and they're not what you want to ask about - but it's a no and a yes |
| 13:00.10 | enleth | it doesn't, I do |
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| 13:01.07 | metastable | What am I missing? |
| 13:01.54 | enleth | my original problem is completely, entirely sovled now, I think, but as you suggested sticking to the Right Way all the way through to the end and setting up a proper interface bringdown, not just set-up, I'm wondering how to do that elegantly |
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| 13:02.18 | enleth | just for the sake of doing it, but oh well |
| 13:03.04 | enleth | maybe I should finish solving the original problem, then pastebin the interfaces file |
| 13:03.08 | enleth | and it will be clearer |
| 13:03.31 | metastable | Sounds good. |
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| 13:24.34 | Eryn_1983_FL | hi peeps can you help me solve this error i dont see this key anywhere in apt-key list |
| 13:24.36 | Eryn_1983_FL | https://pastebin.com/dcrBaWnC |
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| 13:27.41 | enleth | metastable: https://pastebin.com/kX7uHUwh - for reference, this is a "clean" state I managed to get out of cloud-init's network config capabilities. internal interface using DHCP, external with address but no routes set, default gw is the hypervisor on the internal virtual switch. |
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| 13:28.05 | enleth | metastable: https://pastebin.com/GYVQPSBu this is after adding two post-up lines (had to be post-, can't add routes to an interface that's down apparently) |
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| 13:28.38 | enleth | metastable: works perfectly and I could leave it as-is and forget about it, but you got me thinking how to do it properly with bringdown and all |
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| 13:29.31 | enleth | so the default gw is acquired through DHCP before those two static routes are set, and bringing down ifext0 should restore that gw |
| 13:29.45 | metastable | I look at the prefix length of /32 on your interface address and just go WTF you can't do that. |
| 13:29.49 | metastable | But OVH. |
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| 13:30.05 | enleth | but it was a DHCP-issued address, so I think the only way to restore it is to ask ifnat0 to re-request stuff from the DHCP server |
| 13:30.14 | enleth | or hardcode it, as I do control it, but that's not the point |
| 13:30.16 | metastable | I think the only way to do that is to preserve the gateway specific in a temp file somewhere prior to overwriting it. |
| 13:30.25 | metastable | specification, rather. |
| 13:30.51 | enleth | ok, that is an option too |
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| 13:32.26 | enleth | bah |
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| 13:32.38 | enleth | I probably won't bother |
| 13:33.12 | enleth | it's a VM, I've got vKVM, virtual serial and freakin' rootfs image access, I can't cut myself out of it even if I tried |
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| 13:33.42 | enleth | so I'll probably go and lower my standards a little here and ignore proper bringdown |
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| 13:34.12 | enleth | I'm happy with having the routes set in a kosher way |
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| 13:40.30 | enleth | oh, one more thing |
| 13:40.31 | michele | hello! |
| 13:40.40 | enleth | can I split the interface definition? |
| 13:40.48 | michele | I want to encrypt either the whole hard drive or just /home partition of my debian box; the only thing I want to avoid is to type the password for encryption at boot (hence I wanted just to encrypt /home). What do you suggest? |
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| 13:41.09 | enleth | like, have two entries for the same interface name that provide separate arguments? |
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| 13:42.17 | metastable | I don't THINK so. |
| 13:42.44 | metastable | michele: Unless you do something extra, it will ask you for the password at boot to mount the filesystem. |
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| 13:42.52 | metastable | I THINK. |
| 13:44.10 | enleth | meh. cloud-init can't add the post-up lines, I'll have to get "creative" here |
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| 13:46.07 | enleth | no, wait |
| 13:46.09 | enleth | >Multiple "iface" stanzas can be given for the same interface, in which case all of the configured addresses and options for that interface will be applied when bringing up that interface. |
| 13:46.12 | michele | metastable: if I just encrypt /home, it should boot normal and ask for password as soon I login IIRC? |
| 13:46.18 | metastable | No. |
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| 13:46.57 | metastable | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:47.36 | enleth | well, it is possible to do this using some PAM trickery similar to mounting networked homedirs, but it's not trivial |
| 13:47.44 | enleth | but "just" encrypting home won't do |
| 13:48.54 | michele | metastable: https://wiki.debian.org/TransparentEncryptionForHomeFolder if i'm not mistaken I have another server with just this enabled, and I don't have to supply any password at boot |
| 13:49.23 | metastable | Then use that? |
| 13:49.28 | michele | metastable of course I think that encryption done in this way is less reliable against tampering... but still it keeps some degree of security |
| 13:49.53 | metastable | michele: Then utilize whole-disk encryption. |
| 13:50.03 | enleth | michele: and ecryptfs-migrate-home actually does a *lot* of stuff under the hood with PAM, so that your login manager etc. invoke cryptsetup, mount, etc., etc. |
| 13:50.07 | enleth | so it's not "just" |
| 13:50.10 | metastable | You seem to have all the answers, here so not sure why you're asking. |
| 13:50.24 | michele | metastable just wanted a second opinion |
| 13:50.27 | enleth | if you "just" encrypt the /home partition, the system will try to mount it at boot and ask you for the password |
| 13:50.38 | teatime | michele: I mostly agree with your thoughts, I think. |
| 13:51.23 | teatime | except the /home thing... but there is some stuff built around doing exactly what you're saying w/ user homedirs. I have not ever done it that way, myself. (I strongly prefer to encrypt the full disk device, whenever at all practical.) |
| 13:51.32 | michele | teatime metastable enleth: yeah, i do not want to supply a password at every boot but still I want something encrypted. this seems the most viable option |
| 13:51.57 | teatime | michele: presumably you understand why full disk encryption nearly mandates entering a boot-time passphrase to be effective |
| 13:52.40 | enleth | michele: unless you want to mess with PAM, ecryptfs is the way to go. you can do it yourself and it might be more secure that way, but expect lots of pain, frustration and confusion unless you're really familliar with PAM and how it does things |
| 13:52.40 | teatime | but you could replace that maybe w/ a smartcard or even a keyfile on a USB token (which would be hacky and problematic for a number of reason, but nonetheless possible.) |
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| 13:53.59 | teatime | michele: also, pro-tip: if you haven't discovered it yet, the features already exist to automatically encrypt your swap partitions(s) at boot-up with a random passphrase (since they never need to be read after having been 'unmounted'; the nice bonus is that's one less passphrase to need etc.) |
| 13:55.51 | michele | teatime sure, i want swap encrypted as well, but again: do not want to supply a password at boot :-) |
| 13:56.30 | teatime | well, yeah, maybe I described poorly; your swap can be encrypted w/o needing any passphrase at all. so that's nice. </bill murray> |
| 13:57.17 | toruvinn | but i'm guessing this won't let you s2disk. |
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| 14:00.09 | michele | don't need s2disk anyway |
| 14:00.20 | michele | it's a server, that's why I did not want to supply a password at every boot |
| 14:00.46 | teatime | correct. which, I'm totally fine w/ 'cause it takes forever anyway :) another con to consider is, mis-configuration or fragile configuration can lead to data fairly easily, since it is wiping and formatting one of your block devices at every boot. |
| 14:00.52 | toruvinn | i actually use s2disk on my home server ;-) if ups' battery is low. |
| 14:01.21 | teatime | michele: there is stuff (I dunno how finished or polished) to permit supplying boot-time decryption passphrases via SSH |
| 14:02.46 | teatime | server implies some level of physical security, though, so I can imagine myself deciding that full disk encryption isn't so critical, so long as swap and the truly sensitive data are. so, that def. jives w/ your plan/ideas. |
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| 14:03.08 | teatime | **can lead to data *loss*, I meant. |
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| 14:04.47 | michele | teatime data loss with ecrypt fs? |
| 14:05.01 | michele | teatime do you have some pointers about the key supplied via ssh? |
| 14:05.08 | teatime | michele: with the random-passphrase automatic encrypted swap partitions I was referring to |
| 14:05.51 | teatime | if you configure /dev/sda2 to be one, then /dev/sda2 will be re-initialized on every boot, and so if for some reason /dev/sdb and /dev/sda were to swap names one day, you might be v. screwed. |
| 14:06.22 | michele | shit :D |
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| 14:22.26 | enleth | michele: refer to the partitions using the by-id tree to avoid that |
| 14:22.35 | enleth | worst case it won't set up swap at all |
| 14:23.04 | enleth | like, say, when one of your disks breaks and the hosting company wrench monkey replaces it |
| 14:24.20 | enleth | or really whichever tree in /dev/disk suits you |
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| 14:30.23 | bitSt0rm | Hi all. I have a problem setting up i8kmon to work properly, using Dell Inspiron 7000 Gaming Laptop (15inch). Is enabled and active (systemctl). Screenshot: http://oi67.tinypic.com/sl0l82.jpg - when it has stayed at 55degC for a little while, fans drop to 0 0 and at all times fans don't seem to be using my RPM values. |
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| 14:45.45 | bimbam2103 | Hello everybody |
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| 14:46.47 | bimbam2103 | I have a little problem with mkfs.ext4. I tried to reformat an ext4 partition with mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdb2 (was previously mounted). It say that it was previously mounted and asks if i want to continue... i tried y,Y,Yes,True but nothing does work to proceed... any suggestions ? |
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| 14:48.04 | bimbam2103 | only if i run fdisk and remove the signature iam able to proceed.. is this a bug |
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| 14:51.01 | teatime | bimbam2103: clarify: is it complaining that /dev/sdb2 is currently mounted, or is it saying that the FS on /dev/sdb2 has been mounted at least once, once upon a time ? |
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| 14:52.14 | rozie | bimbam2103: mount | grep sdb2 |
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| 14:57.11 | enleth | why the hell does vim still ship pre-configured with tab-based indents when everyone and their grandma is using spaces as indents? |
| 14:57.24 | teatime | backwards compatibility. |
| 14:57.32 | teatime | you might enjoy neovim |
| 14:57.59 | bimbam2103 | teatime: no the filesystem is not mounted.... i did also a restart and nothing... it is not mounted |
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| 14:58.00 | enleth | the literally first thing to do on every clean debian install is to change indent mode just to be able to edit system configs, most of which were probably written in vim |
| 14:58.11 | teatime | or just :set sw=4 sts=4 ts=8 et <-- or whatever |
| 14:58.58 | bimbam2103 | rozie: the filesystem is not mounted there is no window manager running or any other tools they automount it... it is not mounted it just says that it was mounted last on /mnt but it is not mounted |
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| 15:05.36 | t3st3r | Can someone shed light why cdebconf package depends on debconf? As the result it still pulls whole perl thing, eliminating whole point of cdbeconf. Great. |
| 15:06.19 | t3st3r | But wait, I wanted really minimal embedded system :) so pulling whole perl just to provide debconf which needed by cdebconf sounds stupid?! |
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| 15:08.18 | koollman | I wouldn't use debian for a really minimal system |
| 15:10.24 | t3st3r | well, debootstrapped system could be fairly small, and there is absolutely nothing else depends on debconf hard way unless I miss that |
| 15:10.37 | t3st3r | so cdebconf depending on debconf looks like really strange thing to me |
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| 15:10.55 | rozie | t3st3r: debootstrapped is like 200 MB |
| 15:11.24 | rozie | with no additional parameters for debootstrap |
| 15:11.27 | t3st3r | hum? I've rather got like 50Mb on armhf, and largest one is package list :D |
| 15:11.46 | rozie | deboostrap on default? |
| 15:11.55 | rozie | with kernel? |
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| 15:12.03 | t3st3r | even package list could be reduced though, getting rid of stuff like translations, etc |
| 15:12.04 | enleth | metastable: everything works; I had to put the iproute2 calls in /etc/network/if-up.d/ after all to deal with the fact that a) cloud-init can't insert post-up directives itself, and 2) defining an interface many times didn't work in this case - but you got me on the right track, thanks |
| 15:12.51 | t3st3r | debootstrap on armhf does not puts kernel if I remember. And default debian kernel is huge and troublesome anyway when it comes to small things. |
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| 15:15.00 | t3st3r | maybe I've used minimal flavour or so though, and it has been kinda minimal, except that perl thing. Could be worked around by hacking dependencies :D |
| 15:15.41 | t3st3r | but I'm not sure why I should hack package manager this way |
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| 15:17.25 | enleth | BTW, what is the least obtrusive way to ask maintainers of a packet whether an update to the upstream version is planned in any near future? the version of cloud-init currently shipped in stretch, and as a consequence, in the openstack images at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/openstack/current/ is quite out of date and has a very annoying debian-specific bug that causes cloud-init to not write the |
| 15:17.31 | enleth | /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules file that it should normally generate along with the rest of the network config |
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| 15:18.25 | wigums | leave the maintainers a note and maybe build a new package yourself |
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| 15:18.58 | enleth | the new version isn't available for any debian release actually |
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| 15:19.16 | wigums | so compile and package it yourself |
| 15:19.47 | rozie | t3st3r: OK, I mean smallest booting system which I made with debootstrap (running on defaults) was ~200MB |
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| 15:20.07 | enleth | yes, that solves the problem for me |
| 15:20.18 | rozie | but for embedded devices take a look on openwrt/lede |
| 15:20.23 | enleth | what do I do if the package lists several maintainers? email them all? |
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| 15:20.54 | t3st3r | rozie> if I remember, after careful cutting it down it gone to like 30-40Mb, if I wouldn't count package list. That alone would be larger than that. |
| 15:20.57 | wigums | they may have a webpage. check their for bug submittting info |
| 15:21.06 | wigums | there |
| 15:22.00 | wigums | and if you succcessfully package it you could submit patches to them |
| 15:22.08 | t3st3r | as for embedded devices, lede/openwrt are kinda way too crippled for e.g. armhf with 1Gb RAM, few CPU cores and so on. |
| 15:22.35 | t3st3r | they are fancy, but... |
| 15:22.39 | enleth | ok, right, found all the info I need, thanks |
| 15:22.54 | wigums | =) |
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| 15:25.21 | wigums | enleth, also, for packages you create or that maybe arent in debian repos you can run your own internal repo and point apt at it which is pretty spiffy |
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| 15:28.29 | t3st3r | and on side note I dislike openwrt/lede startup stuff, they lack systemd and systemd proven to be useful ally when one needs advanced system-level stuff. |
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| 15:29.25 | enleth | wigums: that wouldn't do any good in this case - cloud-init runs on the very first boot of the image and in my case, actually purges itself after boot |
| 15:29.51 | enleth | afterwards it's useless, its sole purpose is to perform initial setup of a cloud node |
| 15:30.34 | wigums | right but if you update the package you can throw it in your own repo and upgrade it using apt |
| 15:30.34 | enleth | or sometimes, on each boot, but that still makes any bugs in a version included in the image affect the first boot |
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| 15:31.14 | wigums | oh i see |
| 15:31.30 | wigums | well you can still update and manually install the package |
| 15:31.33 | enleth | I'd have to mount the image on the hypervisor and point dpkg to an alternate root to do that for it to make any sense |
| 15:31.48 | enleth | I can just as well replace a patched file |
| 15:31.57 | wigums | sure |
| 15:32.07 | wigums | i missed the part of it being an image |
| 15:32.29 | wigums | rebuild the image with your new package |
| 15:33.05 | enleth | too much effort. I'll file a bug with the patch after I'm done with this project so that I don't have to patch images next time |
| 15:33.13 | wigums | heh |
| 15:33.19 | wigums | fair enough |
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| 15:34.46 | enleth | a lot changed in the upstream between the version currently packaged in debian and the most recent release, including non-backwards-compatible stuff,, so I imagine upgrading it in stretch might be out of question at this point - but a patch for an obvious bug affecting debian could go in I think |
| 15:35.37 | enleth | I'm not terribly familiar with the update policy for such cases |
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| 15:42.42 | Samuel | hallo |
| 15:43.07 | Samuel | ist hier wer |
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| 15:57.42 | goldkatze | Hi :-) |
| 15:59.10 | goldkatze | Does Debian package Firefox-ESR releases of the Qualify phase? As in: Will Firefox-ESR 60.0 and 60.1.0 be part of experimenta/unstable/testing? Or wont this start until some time after August/September with 60.2.0? |
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| 16:13.08 | jhutchins | v, firefox |
| 16:13.24 | jhutchins | ,v firefox |
| 16:13.25 | judd | Package: firefox on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.0-1~bpo80+1; sid: 58.0.1-1; experimental: 59.0~b4-1 |
| 16:14.04 | jhutchins | goldkatze: Not in the pipeline yet. Recent versions of firefox can't be compiled on stable due to dependencies. |
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| 16:36.38 | goldkatze | jhutchins: Not quite what I asked. |
| 16:37.29 | goldkatze | Question is: Are qualifying releases of ESR (x.0 and x.1.*) allowed in pipeline, or only later ones (x.2 and later) |
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| 16:48.59 | test_ | is there a way to run the network detection from the setup again? I think I misconfigured something. |
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| 16:50.15 | hiya | kemisten, Nice ISP |
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| 16:55.23 | bitSt0rm | ghutzriop, do you not have wifi activated or what did you misconfigure? |
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| 16:56.59 | ghutzriop | bitSt0rm, I didn't have the network plugged in during installation and I tried to write the /etc/network/interfaces file myself. |
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| 17:07.30 | bitSt0rm | ghutzriop, I think as of Stretch you have to configure one of the dhcp files. I recently sat op an Raspberry Pi with stretch (static ip) and was suprised that interfaces is no longer used -- I believe it is so with regular Debian as well perhaps? But I'm not sure. |
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| 17:07.57 | jhutchins | !interfaces |
| 17:07.57 | dpkg | Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration . See also <dhcp client>, <resolv.conf>, <static route>. |
| 17:08.25 | jhutchins | bitSt0rm: Still valid, but a lot of people use NetworkManager instead. |
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| 17:09.44 | ghutzriop | bitSt0rm, thanks, but that was not the case. The only issue was that I used a cat5 cable instead of a cat7 cable and no link could be established despite the ethernet port blinking. |
| 17:09.58 | bitSt0rm | Oh okay. ghutzriop i'm not sure how to reconfigure network settings from setup, but if it's something simple I don't mind taking a look at your interfaces file -- at least someone else might be able to point out if theres an error |
| 17:10.20 | Iridos | I installed stretch on an external disk for a laptop. Now pretty much every shutdown leaves the filesystem in an unclean state. Suspend-to-ram on closing the lid puts the disk to sleep and opening the laptop cannot wake it, forcing me to reboot, too. I already had to run fsck manually twice on maybe 8 reboots or so. Sometimes the laptop doesn't switch off itself on a shutdown either, so some type of race happens. Any idea how to get a clean shutdown? |
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| 17:12.30 | ghutzriop | jhutchins, thanks, even tough that only describes how to configure the file yourself |
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| 17:13.19 | jhutchins | ghutzriop: That's because that's the way you do it. There is no post-install auto configure. There is Network Manager. |
| 17:13.33 | ghutzriop | Iridos, can you can smartctl -a /dev/<yourdisk>. maybe your disk is just broken |
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| 17:16.41 | ghutzriop | jhutchins, sure |
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| 17:18.09 | Iridos | I don't think that disk has seen much use at all |
| 17:18.40 | jhutchins | Iridos: Is it a USB? The system may be dropping the connectin before it's finished with the shutdown. One of the last things it does is clear the dirty flag. |
| 17:18.48 | Iridos | yes, it's an external usb disk |
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| 17:22.10 | random_auroras | Is there a newbie guide to patching packages? |
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| 17:22.44 | random_auroras | Some kind of ...-doc package with an intro to debian procedures? |
| 17:23.13 | hexhaxtron | If a file has 777 modes, can someone replace the whole file with something that allows root access? |
| 17:23.46 | random_auroras | Is the owner or group root? |
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| 17:23.59 | hexhaxtron | random_auroras: imagine that yes. |
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| 17:24.41 | random_auroras | Not sure if sticky flag isn't required, but I think yes. |
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| 17:25.24 | alkisg | hexhaxtron: he'll be able to replace the file contents, but since the setuid bit isn't set, he won't be able to run it as root |
| 17:25.52 | hexhaxtron | Thanks! |
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| 17:27.32 | alkisg | hexhaxtron: if it's a binary, it's a major security issue, because any user can replace it with something like "if root ever runs this file, install some malware" |
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| 17:28.07 | jhutchins | random_auroras: What kind of "patching" do you want to do? |
| 17:28.33 | alkisg | Imagine if /bin/ls is 777; the first time root or a service runs ls, the malware will get installed |
| 17:28.47 | nikio_ | which debian should i use? |
| 17:28.50 | random_auroras | jhutchins: A package in stable has an important functionality bug. Upstream fixed it a while ago. I want to the patch to the package source, record it, and mail it to the bug system. |
| 17:28.54 | nikio_ | if i want to have decent software versions |
| 17:29.12 | random_auroras | s/want to the/want to add the/ |
| 17:29.29 | jhutchins | random_auroras: In that case it's probably better to link to the patch in the bugreport and let the maintainers handle the patching. |
| 17:29.32 | somiaj | nikio_: debian suggests running stable because it is a well tested, stable os. Backports are provided for some newer software, but you may find that you don't need current software versions for most things (Current versions usually have more bugs too) |
| 17:29.47 | nikio_ | is debian 8 the s table one? |
| 17:29.50 | random_auroras | jhutchins: Why does reportbug have an option to mention we're sending a patch then? |
| 17:29.58 | jhutchins | random_auroras: New patches can cause problems with other parts of the code, and that needs to be tested and vetted. |
| 17:30.08 | somiaj | nikio_: debian stretch was releasted last year, and is the current stable, 8 (jessie) is now oldstable. |
| 17:30.15 | jhutchins | random_auroras: In case you write a patch. |
| 17:30.25 | jhutchins | random_auroras: Then you send or link to your code. |
| 17:30.37 | nikio_ | ok |
| 17:30.42 | jhutchins | random_auroras: Have you practiced compiling and building packages? |
| 17:31.02 | random_auroras | jhutchins: Not really. I've developped before, but I never touched the Debian-way before. |
| 17:31.19 | jhutchins | random_auroras: If the package i spatched upstream, it might be on it's way to backports. What's the package? |
| 17:31.27 | random_auroras | megatools |
| 17:32.03 | jhutchins | ,v megatools |
| 17:32.04 | judd | Package: megatools on amd64 -- buster: 1.9.98-1; sid: 1.9.98-1; stretch: 1.9.98-1 |
| 17:32.05 | random_auroras | https://github.com/megous/megatools/commit/368bd7bd0bbde2b2c949600d6f2733d56e6fb413 The fix is literally just commenting out a broken attempt at optimization. |
| 17:33.20 | jhutchins | random_auroras: I'd say it's likely the fix will make it to buster then, and if all is good you can request a backport (or do it yourself). |
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| 17:34.00 | jhutchins | random_auroras: It might be fun to learn about debian packaging by doing an <ssb> and maybe try applying the patch. |
| 17:34.24 | random_auroras | ssb? |
| 17:34.26 | jhutchins | random_auroras: Patching isn't Debian specific, you take a diff file and use the patch tool to make the changes shown in the diff. |
| 17:34.35 | jhutchins | random_auroras: /msg dpkg ssb |
| 17:34.36 | Iridos | jhutchins, and yes, that's kind of what I think happens. The question is how to avoid it |
| 17:35.07 | random_auroras | jhutchins: Oh I've used git before (still do). It's the interaction between quilt, the "debian/" folder and plain old patches that I don't konw. |
| 17:35.11 | random_auroras | s/konw/know/ |
| 17:35.34 | random_auroras | Debian seems formalized enough there's probably an order to run scripts in to record changes. |
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| 17:35.53 | jhutchins | Iridos: Boot from a non-external partition; use ESATA. I don't think there's much you can do to "fix" startup-shutdown, it's internal to systemd. You might ask the systemd team about the problem. |
| 17:36.35 | jhutchins | random_auroras: Hence the ssb learning, prior to learning how to build from a third-party package with no /debian/ customization yet. |
| 17:36.43 | Iridos | jhutchins, I could write my own shutdown script⦠but⦠I cannot mount -o remount,ro, because it's "busy" (bloody stupid idea) and I can umount -l but that just means that everything including shutdown is unavailable while all open files are still written to |
| 17:36.47 | somiaj | random_auroras: you could read the debian new matainers guide, it is quite good. Sort overview, debian only modifies upstream sources via patches, provided one is using quilt, the patches live in debian/patches and are applied during the build process. |
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| 17:37.49 | jhutchins | Iridos: I think you've defined the problem pretty well. |
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| 17:38.37 | Iridos | D: |
| 17:38.44 | random_auroras | jhutchins: somiaj: I see, I'll have a look then. |
| 17:39.11 | jhutchins | Iridos: I've run from a USB drive before and didn't have that problem, but it was pre-systemd. Too slow to use, but it worked. |
| 17:39.45 | jhutchins | It's always good to see people who want to learn. |
| 17:40.01 | Iridos | could I make the "-.mount" depend on the⦠uh, there is no usb service |
| 17:41.36 | Iridos | hm, there is an "umount.target" |
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| 17:43.58 | jhutchins | Iridos: Some of the shutdown must run from ram. |
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| 17:45.00 | Iridos | I wondered if I could at least avoid the manual file system fixes by mounting a ram-disk on /tmp |
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| 17:46.59 | Iridos | basically the idea was to have this for my father to try out⦠on an external disk |
| 17:47.11 | Alexa | Hello! I'd like to update the grub2 menu list. "update-grub2" doesn't automatically recognize the second system installed on sda3. |
| 17:47.29 | somiaj | Alexa: do you have the package os-prober installed? |
| 17:47.32 | Iridos | and I installed that in "legacy" instead of uefi boot mode because I have no idea if/how well(and how) uefi boot works |
| 17:47.55 | Alexa | I have even edited 40_custom from /etc/grub.d, added a custom entry there, still nothing |
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| 17:48.05 | Alexa | somiaj, yes, I do have it installed |
| 17:48.13 | Alexa | but when I run in, nothing happens |
| 17:48.36 | somiaj | Alexa: can you share the contents of your 40_custom file you created. |
| 17:48.43 | Alexa | of course |
| 17:48.51 | Alexa | just a second to pastebinit |
| 17:48.57 | somiaj | and did you run update-grub after changing that file? |
| 17:49.05 | Alexa | I did |
| 17:49.41 | Alexa | http://paste.debian.net/1009663/ |
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| 17:50.37 | somiaj | did you at least check the config file in /boot/grub to see if your entry got put there? |
| 17:50.46 | somiaj | I don't know grub well enough to know weither or not your configuration is correct. |
| 17:50.58 | velix | Wow. Why is Debian net install ISO around 270 MB? Actually, some weeks ago I've compiled a live CD with debootstrap, which is 30 MB ... |
| 17:51.34 | Alexa | somiaj, it is there, apparently |
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| 17:51.55 | Alexa | http://paste.debian.net/1009664/ |
| 17:52.13 | somiaj | Alexa: then you haven't configured the entry correctly for grub. looking at my file, I notice you are missing a 'menuentry' line for that |
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| 17:53.02 | somiaj | Alexa: I don't know grub well enough to help there, but it is working as designed, you just have to ensure you write ac orrect set of options for grub to add it to the menu |
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| 17:53.13 | Alexa | somiaj, thanks ;) |
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| 17:53.30 | Alexa | I'll check it manually |
| 17:53.32 | somiaj | but my guess is you are missing the menuentry .... { stuff } part |
| 17:53.59 | Alexa | yes and lot of "insmod" |
| 17:54.00 | Alexa | haha |
| 17:54.07 | Alexa | I'm also not familiar with it ;) |
| 17:54.19 | somiaj | but at least you now know, your config is getting read, (: |
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| 17:55.20 | Alexa | somiaj, I do. I'll give here a feedback once I figure this one out. |
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| 18:14.09 | Alexa | I cannot remember who was I chatting with last time, but he/she helped me :) |
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| 18:14.50 | Alexa | adding menuentry at the beginning and {} worked :) |
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| 18:42.46 | HalfMadDad | Hi Everyone ! I am thinking about setting up a stripped down install with just icewm. Is there a way to update the system for security patches without a normal desktop install ? |
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| 18:45.05 | junka | via terminal? |
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| 18:45.14 | HalfMadDad | junka, yes please |
| 18:45.17 | junka | unattended-upgrades? |
| 18:45.25 | junka | not sure what you are asking |
| 18:45.30 | HalfMadDad | maybe not upgrades |
| 18:45.35 | HalfMadDad | well for instance |
| 18:45.50 | HalfMadDad | there have been issues with intel |
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| 18:45.56 | HalfMadDad | and patches to the kernel |
| 18:46.15 | HalfMadDad | if I am not paying attention |
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| 18:46.26 | HalfMadDad | and I could be vulnerabble |
| 18:46.34 | HalfMadDad | vulnerable |
| 18:46.58 | HalfMadDad | I depend on distro management to stay safe |
| 18:47.24 | junka | ok |
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| 18:47.34 | junka | you just update |
| 18:47.45 | HalfMadDad | ah |
| 18:48.01 | HalfMadDad | with apt-get ? |
| 18:48.07 | junka | exactly |
| 18:48.13 | HalfMadDad | thanks ! |
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| 18:48.21 | junka | np |
| 18:49.08 | annadane | if you use icewm you'll still have the core utilities like the kernel etc so you can just apt upgrade and so on, and for intel probably install intel-microcode, which is in non-free |
| 18:49.35 | HalfMadDad | thanks annadane |
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| 18:51.45 | annadane | HalfMadDad, and also subscribing to debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org is also a good idea |
| 18:54.21 | HalfMadDad | it does sound like a good idea thanks annadane |
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| 18:56.01 | HalfMadDad | just sent the subscription request |
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| 19:26.01 | jhutchins | HalfMadDad: You need to update AND run aptitude upgrade periodically. No need for the GUI though, many Debian installations run without any GUI or even a monitor to display it on. |
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| 19:51.09 | HalfMadDad | thanks jhutchins |
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| 20:04.49 | gizmore | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:07.36 | Klaus_Dieter | I have trouble setting up network-manager with buster. when booting the system is waiting multiple minutes for devices to come up. /Etc/network/interfaces is empty so is /etc/network/interfaces.d |
| 20:08.07 | Klaus_Dieter | I have read the german wiki https://wiki.debian.org/de/NetworkManager but I am unsure what I really should do. I can find hacks disabling wait times in the scripts but those do not seem to be proper solutions |
| 20:08.39 | Klaus_Dieter | I would like my system to start quickly. I do not have mounts with "auto" in fstab so the network actually is not required to reach the desktop |
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| 20:35.32 | nillerz | Hello. I think the kdesudo package is broken in sid. |
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| 20:36.02 | somiaj | nillerz: you can ask about this in #debian-next, but desktops are moving away from things like kdesudo, gksu, etc, in favor of policykit |
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| 20:36.23 | nillerz | I thought this was debian next. Huh, must've mistyped. Sorry. |
| 20:36.44 | nillerz | Is #debian-next on another server? |
| 20:36.51 | nillerz | I just got re-directed back here. |
| 20:37.10 | somiaj | nillerz: yes, #debian-next is on irc.oftc.net |
| 20:37.20 | nillerz | oh okay, thank you |
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| 20:44.41 | ryouma | what is the name of the program that runs when you upgrade and the kernel upgrades? it looks at all your disks, tries to find what what os is there, and maybe does something with grub. and it spams your logs. what is it called? |
| 20:45.17 | n4dir | update-grub |
| 20:45.20 | somiaj | you are being kinda vague, but update-grub is what runs to regenerate the configs in /boot/grub that are used to boot |
| 20:45.39 | somiaj | unsure about the spamming the logs part |
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| 20:46.36 | ryouma | n4dir: somiaj it spews a ton of output, and it only seems to occur when kernel upgrades. it will even mention macos and stuff. and warn you about macos or something. |
| 20:47.11 | ryouma | (even though you have no hfs partitions or anything) |
| 20:47.34 | ryouma | it's searching around for something to put grub on or something |
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| 20:48.00 | somiaj | update-grub will triger additional scripts in /etc/grub.d/ to help generate those menus |
| 20:48.34 | somiaj | but there are also other hooks, such as dkms causing additional modules to rebuilt, so there are various hooks that get triggered when installing a kernel |
| 20:48.50 | somiaj | also every package as a bunch of install (post/pre) scripts that get run to help with these triggers. |
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| 20:50.48 | ryouma | ok, so this thing (the grub part anyway) /only/ tries to create menus, /only/ in the currently running system's disk's /boot partition (assming it's separate), and does not change any other disks in /any/ way, including mbr or data? |
| 20:51.11 | ryouma | is this grub-pc doing this? or is it the kernel package itself? |
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| 20:53.51 | somiaj | ryouma: it is update-grub, and update grub only updates the configs in /boot/grub, as once grub is installed on the mbr, it doesn't need to be messed with (unless you change where /boot is) |
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| 20:56.19 | ryouma | thanks |
| 20:56.25 | ryouma | one more question. if i physically turn off sda in the bios, will i still be able to boot from sdb? in teh past this has not been possible. |
| 20:56.52 | ryouma | it had smoething to do with hardcoded postitions in the kernel or something |
| 20:57.02 | n4dir | i think rather "unless you make up your mind and want to install grub somewhere else, where /boot is wouldn't matter, as far grub is concerned (is what i would guess). |
| 20:57.40 | somiaj | use UUID's, using /dev/sdaX, /dev/sdbX as drive info requires the drives get detected in the proper order. UUIDS dont' care what order the drives get detected, only that it is there |
| 20:58.23 | somiaj | n4dir: the pice of grub in the mbr needs to know where /boot/grub is, yes it doesn't matter, but changing it may require a new grub-install... |
| 20:58.24 | ryouma | grub-install does not allow uuid for its argument, because uuids do not exist for entire drives |
| 20:59.04 | somiaj | ryouma: because grub install is different, and this requires a device to install to (not a file system), the device /dev/sda dose not have a UUID |
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| 21:00.11 | ryouma | so grub-install dereferences its argument if it is e.g. by-id? |
| 21:00.21 | ryouma | and does not store the by-id anyplace? |
| 21:01.20 | ryouma | (basically i am rsyncing /boot to sda, and chrooting sda to do grub-install. and this is intended to boot even if sdb which is my main drive gets corrupted.) |
| 21:02.59 | somiaj | ryouma: I think so, I think you can have grub installed on different mbrs, such as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb and then let your firmware choose which one to boot from. |
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| 21:03.21 | somiaj | I'm not quite positive on what is needed to ensure a sync of your system (without exact image of the drive) to have grub preconfigured to boot |
| 21:03.23 | n4dir | i guess if sdb gets corrupted i would boot a liveCD (stick, etc), chroot to sda, run grub-install and that should be it (as far grub is concerned). |
| 21:03.23 | ryouma | yes, that is the idea. merely change boot order in bios. |
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| 21:03.39 | n4dir | in short i would take care of it *when* it happens, not before. |
| 21:04.43 | ryouma | it is obvious that mbr must differ between sda and sdb, so that it can point to its own drive. however, it is not clear whether it is necessary to have /boot differ between sda and sdb. |
| 21:05.26 | somiaj | ryouma: it isn't nesecarry but if your drive gets corrupted, you may want to not assume /boot is still accessiable |
| 21:05.54 | ryouma | n4dir: the whole exercise here is to not use a live cd, but boot from sda. there is no live cd that i have found that meets my acessibility needs. (and i find that such procedures are best to not try to remember in times of system breakage.) |
| 21:06.04 | ryouma | (even a mere chroot) |
| 21:06.54 | ryouma | somiaj: if sdb gets corrupted, and i have been using sdb, i expect to be able to reboot, change boot sequence, and boot from sda, which is a clone-ish, and continue as normal. |
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| 21:09.24 | somiaj | ryouma: then you'll want a sync of /boot on the other drive, and the grub in that mbr to know about the other drives boot |
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| 21:10.01 | somiaj | though one problem with the sync, if you have different uuid's on the drives file system, the config from sdb may not directly work for sda and require some additional scripting, hence I would also do what n4dir suggested, fix it when it is a problem, and just backup the data |
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| 21:11.39 | ryouma | i correct the uuids beforehand. live cds do not have large enough fonts to be usable, and usually have quirks that take forever, if ever, to figure out getting what needs done done. in addition, remembering which fses to mount in a chroot and the chroot calling convention and chekcing out disk ids and so on takes time and is subject to user error. |
| 21:11.50 | n4dir | i vaguely recall that back then folks spoke of CD's to boot a distro from. Not sure if all of /boot was on them (but probably makes all this more confusing). |
| 21:12.14 | ryouma | having an identical debian on sda is perfect for repairing sdb |
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| 21:12.54 | alkisg | (10:56:25 μμ) ryouma: one more question. if i physically turn off sda in the bios, will i still be able to boot from sdb? in teh past this has not been possible. ==> it's been possible since 199x |
| 21:12.58 | ryouma | boot a distro from? as in, you have root on some partition and you load the cd and you are good to go? sounds interesting. |
| 21:13.41 | ryouma | my computer is old, if it's a hardware issue |
| 21:13.49 | ryouma | oh, 199x, never mind |
| 21:13.59 | alkisg | :) |
| 21:14.14 | n4dir | ryouma: i ran it when i had debian on a usb-stick, and the how-to mentioned that method in case you wan't to use the stick on a PC which only boots from CD. What to search for on forums.debian.net i wouldn't know, but there is the how-to (probably BrotherTiag wrote it) |
| 21:14.16 | ryouma | but i have had it not work. probably user error. but not necessarily user error. |
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| 21:14.53 | alkisg | If a pc only boots from cd, and you want to use a stick, use the plop boot manager |
| 21:15.09 | ryouma | n4dir: it certainly seems like a /great/ idea for a cd. but i'd want it to decrypt too. |
| 21:15.36 | ryouma | is that like a substitute for grub? |
| 21:15.48 | ryouma | my system might only boot from cd and internal drive |
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| 21:20.03 | n4dir | the problem to find a liveCD relates to the lack of cryptsetup installed on those? |
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| 21:33.40 | ryouma | the biggest problems are unreadably small fonts. you /cannot/ work around that. |
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| 21:34.55 | ryouma | but thre are various ones. as long as you are not in your own environment, you are uncomfortable. and i am uncomfortable in booting type environments. and booting type environments are inaccessible. even where they supposedly have large enough fonts and no blinking, they revert to unreadable fonts and blinking. for example in the kernel output and in the linux console. |
| 21:35.19 | ryouma | and booting bugs are when i am already so stressed that i need every single bit of familiarity possible |
| 21:35.43 | alkisg | ryouma: plop boot manager makes your pc boot from usb, nothing more |
| 21:35.46 | n4dir | yeah, i see that. that is: i agree (familiarity) |
| 21:35.54 | ryouma | and no blinking. it is literally impossible, for example, to have the cursor not blink in the debian console. this is intolerable. |
| 21:36.13 | alkisg | ryouma: it doesn't load the OS, it emulates "bios usb drivers" so that usb booting is supported. Then grub/syslinux take over. |
| 21:36.22 | ryouma | but again accessibility (fonts, blinking, brightness) are larger problems |
| 21:36.51 | n4dir | there is a tool called refractasnapshot or such. It creates a bootable iso of your installation ( i got no clue about fonts, but i guess you could work around that problem). |
| 21:37.02 | ryouma | i will look up plop |
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| 21:38.23 | ryouma | except cds only have 600mb |
| 21:38.26 | alkisg | ryouma: so basically, you can install debian to a usb stick, configure it as you like, and since your bios can't boot from usb, you use plop boot manager from the cdrom to boot it. OR, you can just add an entry to your sda so that it boots from usb. |
| 21:38.28 | ryouma | and my root has 6gb |
| 21:38.39 | alkisg | ryouma: the cd will contain plop = 1 mb |
| 21:38.40 | ryouma | oic |
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| 21:44.02 | ryouma | i wdoner if plop works through a hub |
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| 21:45.58 | alkisg | ryouma: no, it doesn't support hubs; unless you use the pkexec variant, which loads a kernel from a cd, and then chains to load your kernel from anywhere |
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| 21:46.51 | alkisg | I.e. https://www.plop.at/en/plopkexec/full.html |
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| 21:48.36 | vlcthree | somiaj, what about a vlc Snap package ? |
| 21:48.48 | somiaj | vlcthree: you are thinking ubuntu, debian doesn't have snap packages. |
| 21:49.00 | vlcthree | flatpack? |
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| 21:50.09 | RayReddington | Is mhicklen here |
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| 21:50.29 | somiaj | vlcthree: as I said, you would have to build vlc against the libs in stretch. This could take some work. Though provided things work nicely, the links I gave you could automate the process |
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| 21:51.36 | vlcthree | somiaj, sorry what link? |
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| 21:52.34 | somiaj | vlcthree: you would have to compile vlc yourself, and depending on what libaries it needs, this could take a good amount of work. You could try to /msg dpkg ssb, and follow those instructions or check out https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation, but this could take some work. |
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| 21:53.04 | vlcthree | somiaj, thanks |
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| 23:16.59 | noriend | hi |
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| 23:31.34 | strangeqargo | google foo fails me, any tips on setting up pbuilder with distcc? |
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| 23:46.40 | tiwake | I launched a process to be running in the background <some command>& how do I exit SSH without killing this process? |
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| 23:47.35 | tiwake | would that be disown? |
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| 23:48.52 | tiwake | cause that does not seem to work |
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| 23:54.41 | ni291187 | selam |
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