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| 00:06.46 | bug | cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdXY <somename>. |
| 00:06.46 | bug | (enter password). then it's available to be mounted as /dev/mapper/<somename>. |
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| 00:07.52 | Azrael_- | bug: my problem is, that until now my dropbear-setup only allows me to connect it using ssh-keys but i want to use user+pass and until now i haven't found out how to accomplish this |
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| 00:25.15 | flound1129 | is there a quickstart on setting up the graphite packages in stretch-backports? There doesn't seem to be any autocnfig |
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| 00:34.39 | bites | flound1129: i can't check right now, but have you looked in /usr/share/doc/graphite-web/ ? |
| 00:35.00 | maxxe | is libyui available from som custom repo? why isn't it in debian atm? |
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| 00:41.18 | bites | flound1129: from the dependencies it also looks like graphite is using the django development server. if that's the case you probably want to change that to use apache or nginx for the web frontend. it does have an apache conf in /usr/share/graphite-web/apache2-graphite.conf |
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| 00:54.35 | flound1129 | bites: thx |
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| 01:10.18 | ryouma | i did a chroot on a device, mounting /sys and so on. but it did not umount. if i try to umount it, it says in use. "systemd-l 1299 root 6r REG 0,14 4096 3763 /sys/devices/virtual/tty/tty0/active". why is systemd still using it? |
| 01:10.29 | ryouma | (jessie) |
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| 01:11.57 | aokfire | Hi, I want to run two mount commands on boot but I want to run them before ANY user processes are run |
| 01:12.04 | aokfire | or any user crontab jobs |
| 01:12.16 | aokfire | example, I have a crontab job under my general user to start a program that needs mounts |
| 01:12.54 | somiaj | why not just use fstab, that should mount things early enough. |
| 01:13.03 | aokfire | here: |
| 01:13.29 | aokfire | mount --bind /mnt/usermounts/files/backup/ /home/specialuser/backups |
| 01:13.48 | aokfire | mount -o remount,bind,ro /home/specialuser/backups |
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| 01:14.18 | aokfire | then remount as read only |
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| 01:14.29 | aokfire | /mnt/usermounts is mounted with fstab, but what I do here is bind a specific folder to another specific folder |
| 01:14.34 | aokfire | *then remount as read only |
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| 01:14.55 | aokfire | special user who only needs RO access to a backup folder |
| 01:14.57 | aokfire | not the whole mount |
| 01:15.20 | aokfire | could I run those two commands in fstab? |
| 01:15.43 | somiaj | seems strange to me why you want to do this with mount, couldn't you just set up permsions in such a way the user can only read that file, then make a link if really needed? |
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| 01:16.33 | aokfire | yeah it's odd, it's per the application we're using |
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| 01:40.37 | Project86__ | I have a debian based arm on rpi3 b+ and this particular distro (only the arm version of it actually), doesn't have the Bluetooth gui. What's the easiest way to add it back in? |
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| 01:50.18 | somiaj | Project86__: go ask the debian-based distro support you are using. |
| 01:51.57 | Project86__ | spaced out and did it right after sending this |
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| 01:52.36 | Project86__ | Forgot I was in that distros channel, my bad |
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| 02:04.25 | n-iCe | Hello friends, is this the stable version? firmware-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 02:05.04 | somiaj | yes, that is the current stable, stretch |
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| 02:09.11 | n-iCe | is testing a way to stop downloadnig a new iso in the next release? |
| 02:10.09 | ryouma | no |
| 02:10.18 | ryouma | you just upgrade |
| 02:10.30 | n-iCe | ok, donloading the stable version then, thanks. |
| 02:10.32 | n-iCe | Is a new laptop. |
| 02:10.47 | somiaj | yea, debian is designed that you can upgrade from one release to another. |
| 02:11.14 | somiaj | note, new hardware sometimes requires a newer kernel. You can get this from stretch-backports if you find some of your hardware doesn't work on the current kernel. |
| 02:11.25 | ryouma | i have an old machine (1996 or so) that does not do uefi or anything like that. i want to boot from an external drive, which i have partitioned as gpt. will this boot? if so, do i need to mark the boot partition with the boot flag? |
| 02:11.26 | somiaj | (but if you require a newer kernel during the install, this can be a pain) |
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| 02:12.35 | n-iCe | Well is not a 2018 released laptop. |
| 02:12.47 | n-iCe | everything should be supported I think |
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| 02:12.53 | n-iCe | is a i5 4th generation |
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| 02:14.30 | somiaj | ryouma: I think you need to set up some mbr compadability layer in the gtp partition that acts as the 'mbr' |
| 02:15.12 | ryouma | somiaj: any clue what one does to do that? (it's a core 2 quad; the date is not certain.) |
| 02:15.46 | somiaj | this is part of the partition table, looking up the details, but once you modify the partition table it should work with legacy boot (and thus machines) |
| 02:16.15 | somiaj | hmm, also see ways to convert gtp to mbr, but I doubt that is what you want. |
| 02:16.36 | Azrael_- | at last, got my machine running and also providing the network configuration directly as kernel-parameter! |
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| 02:18.00 | ryouma | arch wiki or so says gpt is basically always better, and i wanted this thing to boot both this old machine and any future new machine, so i figured gpt was the right choice. but for health reasons i cannot spend effort on debugging it if i can't get it to boot my machine. so i will redo the whole thing in mbr if needed. |
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| 02:18.31 | somiaj | ryouma: http://www.lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/BIOSBootGPT seems promising, though not quite sure why they are using syslinux |
| 02:19.23 | somiaj | I think what you are asking is uncommon but possibe, I see various hits from google on how to do it, but nothign that seems to me to be a clear simple howto. |
| 02:20.48 | ryouma | huh, i figured it must be common. my idea is, if this machine dies, i just unplug and plug into a new machine. i thought gpt might be needed for new machines, not sure. |
| 02:22.01 | ryouma | (i'd use syslinux, being supposedly more straightforward than grub, but ironically, having gotten grub to finally work it would be a health hit to try to figure syslinux out and use it) |
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| 02:22.07 | bites | i have a usb i made to work with both uefi and bios with both grub versions installed. |
| 02:22.26 | bites | i think there were instructions in the arch wiki. |
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| 02:23.21 | bites | i think it was this https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Multiboot_USB_drive#Hybrid_UEFI_GPT_.2B_BIOS_GPT.2FMBR_boot |
| 02:23.30 | bites | looks about right. |
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| 02:23.49 | somiaj | ryouma: gtp has advantages, but most new machiens support legacy. In gerneral I would say use gtp for uefi boot and mbr for legacy boot. Might be nice to just stick to mbr/legacy boot (most new machines can boot from this). Unless you have a large drive in which mbr partitiosn are to small |
| 02:24.24 | somiaj | there are ways to use uefi boot on mbr partition tables, and legacy boot on gtp parittion tables, but this to me seems uncommon, but yes possible |
| 02:24.43 | bites | hybrid mbr partition table :D |
| 02:25.22 | somiaj | ryouma: if your drive isn't bigger than 2TB, I don't think you get that much advantage from gtp |
| 02:25.53 | somiaj | or if you use tons of partitions and don't want to use the 4 primary + extended partitions of mbr |
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| 02:26.51 | Azrael_- | what fs should i use for a ~16tb partition? |
| 02:27.22 | ryouma | hmm, well /this/ drive is small, but i awnt to make a future 4tb external drive bootable. so i figured i would learn it now. but my threshold for learning it is, i unfortunately can't put too much effort in, so if it's going to be too much for me, i will convert to mbr in fdisk. |
| 02:28.03 | somiaj | Azrael_-: I would say ext4 is fine, though unless you have a very specific reason to use a different file system on linux, I say stick with the standard of ext4. It works good in most cases, and is very stable. |
| 02:28.14 | ryouma | iirc fdisk has a bootable flag you can set even in gpt. i wonder if that is enough to get it to work. |
| 02:28.27 | somiaj | ryouma: well there are various guides you can find in google, if you ahve time, try to follow one. |
| 02:28.47 | somiaj | ryouma: according to the link I shared, that won't work in newer versions of fdisk that support gpt. |
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| 02:28.48 | Azrael_- | somiaj: k |
| 02:30.27 | ryouma | somiaj: i'm thinking maybe your url is a bit old, if it does not really update for grub 2 and teh fact that fdisk can do gpt now? |
| 02:32.21 | somiaj | I would just look around on google and find something that seems promising then. |
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| 02:33.06 | ryouma | ok, thanks. will try. but getting a bit intimidated. maybe i should convert to mbr. |
| 02:33.39 | michael2 | ryouma: what are you trying to do? |
| 02:33.40 | ryouma | it's not like mbr has been bad, and if most new systems boot it then np |
| 02:33.43 | somiaj | it might be the easiest at this time, dpeneding on how much time you want to play with it. |
| 02:33.56 | somiaj | michael2: boot legacy on a gtp partition table. |
| 02:34.07 | somiaj | in this case from an old BIOS only machine (no uefi) |
| 02:34.42 | ryouma | yes |
| 02:34.58 | michael2 | so use a GUID partition layout - but have it get read by legacy BIOS firmware? |
| 02:35.16 | michael2 | so you can load a 4TB hard disk on this setup? |
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| 02:36.15 | ryouma | yes |
| 02:36.23 | ryouma | (except i am trying it on a smaller drive) |
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| 02:36.35 | ryouma | both external drives |
| 02:36.49 | michael2 | ryouma: to test it first? yeah, there are tricky rules around block addressing when you try to address disks that big |
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| 02:51.02 | axdoomer | I have a device that I connect to my computer. It loads a kernel module automatically (the driver). I need to pass a module parameter to it to enable the debug mode. How can I make it so that a parameter is passed automatically each time the module is loaded? I could unload the module and reload it with the parameter every time, but the device doesn't behave correctly when I do this. |
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| 02:59.57 | somiaj | axdoomer: add the module and paramerers in a file in /etc/modprobe.d |
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| 03:10.35 | ryouma | michael2: i kinda assumed that while getting booting to work on an external 4tb drive on legacy bios might be tricky, that i'd at least be able to have a 4tb drive work as a drive. not true? |
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| 03:18.24 | michael2 | ryouma: my understanding - and Im sure there are people here who know better - is that once you go have block numbers beyond what a classic MBR partition table can address you need to start implementing workarounds/hacks to the MBR entries - where EFI are kind of "standardising" the hacks. so the issue for large (2TB +) is addressibility of blocks in the partition table - I can't see how the boot flag could |
| 03:18.26 | michael2 | be a problem |
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| 03:19.51 | n-iCe | how do I activate the click on touchpad' |
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| 03:21.40 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: version of debian & DE/WM? |
| 03:22.27 | n-iCe | xfce last testing |
| 03:22.57 | Azrael_- | what desktop is currently suggested best with debian? |
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| 03:24.08 | awal1 | Not really used to chromium but I use it sometimes. How to remove completely chromium browsing history? |
| 03:24.48 | awal1 | via setting , deleting all history/since beginning, doesn't delete really all |
| 03:24.54 | awal1 | settings |
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| 03:27.10 | n-iCe | how do I activate the click on touchpad? |
| 03:27.32 | awal1 | synclient TapButton1=1 |
| 03:27.33 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: please be patient. |
| 03:27.45 | awal1 | n-iCe ^ |
| 03:27.45 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: Assuming you're using libinput: synclient TapButton1=1 - you can put that in your .xinitrc for it to be permanent |
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| 03:29.47 | awal1 | n-iCe, if you execute "synclient" you get all the settings. easy to modify, just check man synclient |
| 03:29.49 | bug | awal1, try bleachbit |
| 03:30.26 | n-iCe | bash: synclient: command not found |
| 03:30.48 | awal1 | bug, i use it yeah, but chromium still preventing total delete |
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| 03:33.16 | n-iCe | Done, worked. |
| 03:33.22 | n-iCe | is it gonna be on every boot? |
| 03:33.33 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: if you put it in the .xinitrc, then yes |
| 03:34.11 | awal1 | .xsession instead of .xinitrc if you use a display manager |
| 03:34.27 | SlidingHorn | ^^ n-iCe |
| 03:34.31 | bug | awal1, well, you could always save bookmarks and just delete the chromium directory under ~/ i guess. |
| 03:34.36 | n-iCe | I use xfce |
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| 03:34.45 | n-iCe | I don't have any of those files |
| 03:34.59 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: do you have a graphical login? |
| 03:35.08 | n-iCe | yes |
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| 03:36.01 | awal1 | create it: open terminal and run nano .xsession insert synclient TapButton1=1 the Ctrl-o-Enter for save followed by Ctrl-x for close |
| 03:36.06 | n-iCe | ok |
| 03:36.16 | awal1 | log out from xfce and login back |
| 03:36.31 | n-iCe | done, thanks |
| 03:36.46 | awal1 | n-iCe, synclient TapButton1=1 & |
| 03:37.09 | awal1 | better add & after synclient TapButton1=1 |
| 03:37.14 | awal1 | synclient TapButton1=1 & |
| 03:37.22 | n-iCe | doe |
| 03:37.23 | n-iCe | done |
| 03:38.19 | n-iCe | now I See some erros at boot |
| 03:39.43 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: what we gave you isn't invoked until you start a session, so that is likely unrelated |
| 03:40.36 | n-iCe | yes, I'm gonna post the errors, just trying to install chromium but is not opening |
| 03:40.40 | n-iCe | Calling _exit(1). Core file will not be generated. |
| 03:40.44 | n-iCe | with chromium, weird |
| 03:41.18 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: what is the command that you're trying to run? |
| 03:41.26 | n-iCe | chromium |
| 03:44.21 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: please pastebin the output of the following: apt-cache policy chromium |
| 03:45.00 | n-iCe | I removed it, and installed google chrome itself. |
| 03:45.28 | bug | o jeez |
| 03:45.54 | awal1 | n-iCe you added & to the end of your synclient command , right? (synclient TapButton1=1 &) |
| 03:46.13 | n-iCe | yes awal1 thanks |
| 03:46.18 | awal1 | good |
| 03:46.19 | n-iCe | those are the boot errors https://photos.app.goo.gl/GkvCTfpiWVv1Nq3Z2 |
| 03:46.59 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: one thing at a time, please....are you using chromium or chrome?? |
| 03:47.15 | n-iCe | chrome, removed chromium, solved. |
| 03:47.33 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: okay - just note that chrome is unsupported |
| 03:47.52 | n-iCe | where, here? |
| 03:47.54 | SlidingHorn | yes |
| 03:47.59 | n-iCe | ok |
| 03:48.09 | n-iCe | and the boot error, what do you think? |
| 03:49.47 | SlidingHorn | I haven't looked at it |
| 03:49.51 | n-iCe | ok |
| 03:50.47 | n-iCe | I think I need those, xserver-xorg-video-radeon xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu |
| 03:51.27 | SlidingHorn | n-iCe: did you read the website it refers you to? |
| 03:52.58 | n-iCe | yes, https://wiki.debian.org/es/Firmware |
| 03:53.27 | n-iCe | but did not find a solution for my problem. |
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| 03:54.39 | n-iCe | SlidingHorn: do you? |
| 03:56.59 | n-iCe | done, apt-get install firmware-amd-graphics |
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| 03:59.10 | n-iCe | going to reboot and check |
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| 05:50.00 | zerocool | anyone have a btrfs volume around? |
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| 05:57.34 | at0m | dpkg: tell zerocool about anyone |
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| 06:04.02 | SporkWitch | zerocool: If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later. |
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| 07:37.53 | noobFirstday | i installed gns3 but i got an old without new features i need to go through a book exercises |
| 07:38.04 | noobFirstday | how do i get the latest version? |
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| 07:48.52 | cef | noobFirstday: the latest version in debian is 0.8.7 which is very outdated. The person who packaged it seems to know there's a later version but has no time to package it (bug mentioning it is way old).. your best bet would be to remove gns3 from your system and compile your own version from source. |
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| 07:49.55 | at0m | ,v gns3 |
| 07:49.56 | judd | Package: gns3 on amd64 -- wheezy/contrib: 0.7.4-1; wheezy-backports/contrib: 0.8.6-3~bpo70+1; buster/contrib: 0.8.7-2; jessie/contrib: 0.8.7-2; sid/contrib: 0.8.7-2; stretch/contrib: 0.8.7-2 |
| 07:50.50 | cef | at0m: gns3 is very very old. it's scheduled for removal from sid/buster on the 9th May. |
| 07:52.00 | antto | ,v gcc-avr |
| 07:52.01 | judd | Package: gcc-avr on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:4.7.2-2; jessie: 1:4.8.1+Atmel3.4.4-2; stretch: 1:4.9.2+Atmel3.5.3-1; buster: 1:5.4.0+Atmel3.6.0-1+b1; sid: 1:5.4.0+Atmel3.6.0-1+b1 |
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| 07:56.27 | cef | noobFirstday: There's a bunch of virtial machine images of gns3 that you can download from their website. |
| 07:56.36 | cef | err, virtual even |
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| 08:14.33 | superlinux | hello. what is the alternative of "Down them all " on Firefox with multithreaded downloading? |
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| 08:19.08 | liveuser-work | how see free disk space on filesystem? |
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| 08:27.07 | nkuttler | liveuser-work: man df |
| 08:29.37 | cef | liveuser-work: As nkuttler says, `df` is the command you want. From a terminal, try `df -h`. If you want just the filesystem that you're currently using (ie: where you are in the terminal) use `df -h .` |
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| 08:30.08 | liveuser-work | cef so the persistence didn't mount |
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| 08:35.07 | nkuttler | persistence? |
| 08:35.35 | cef | No idea. Might have me confused with someone else..? |
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| 08:36.41 | liveuser-work | nkuttler: working from a live image |
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| 08:40.49 | liveuser-work | how printing partition labels? |
| 08:41.08 | antto | how can i search for a specific filename like "blah.o" in all subdirectories of /usr/ where "blah.o" might be an actual file *or* a symlink to a file? |
| 08:41.20 | cef | liveuser-work: you mean hot to get the uuid? |
| 08:42.27 | liveuser-work | e2labels |
| 08:43.24 | cef | liveuser-work: there's also `lsblk --fs` |
| 08:43.39 | cef | liveuser-work: shows for everything that's currently mounted |
| 08:44.02 | nkuttler | antto: man find? |
| 08:44.05 | cef | actually shows for everything it can see |
| 08:44.27 | antto | nkuttler i mean, do i need something extra to look for symlinks too? |
| 08:44.40 | liveuser-work | mounted? |
| 08:44.57 | cef | mounted = in use. |
| 08:44.57 | liveuser-work | then the persistence is mounted |
| 08:45.06 | liveuser-work | in use |
| 08:45.10 | nkuttler | antto: what do you mean? |
| 08:45.27 | liveuser-work | though unpacking linux source complained not enough free space |
| 08:45.32 | cef | `lsblk --fs` will show all the filesystems the machine thinks are available, whether mounted or not. |
| 08:45.38 | nkuttler | antto: see -type in man find? |
| 08:45.53 | antto | i'm just confused, i'll read the info |
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| 08:51.45 | liveuser-work | something is not right |
| 08:52.04 | liveuser-work | df reports the overlay 100% used |
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| 08:52.35 | liveuser-work | though not much was installed |
| 08:52.56 | liveuser-work | is there something to show files by size? |
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| 08:57.13 | liveuser-work | hello id4rk_ |
| 08:58.28 | liveuser-work | talk about the future |
| 09:01.38 | liveuser-work | id4rk_: privmsg if you like |
| 09:01.46 | linux54 | lineuser-work: apt-get clean might help |
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| 09:04.01 | liveuser-work | wow after apt-get clean it reads 89% used |
| 09:04.32 | liveuser-work | 5GB |
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| 09:05.05 | liveuser-work | less than 1GB was installed as far as I looked |
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| 09:06.09 | liveuser-work | unless he linu z has some impressive compression |
| 09:06.23 | liveuser-work | linux xz file |
| 09:07.31 | liveuser-work | it looks like it's extracion was rolledback anyhow |
| 09:07.51 | liveuser-work | the linux dir is empty |
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| 09:09.07 | liveuser-work | dpkg-dev was installed and binutils-doc |
| 09:09.40 | liveuser-work | and apt-get source linux |
| 09:10.16 | liveuser-work | did that chew up nearly 5000mb? |
| 09:10.53 | liveuser-work | so much for work |
| 09:11.48 | liveuser-work | toon town, pickup a hammer and it expands into a massive rubber parade floater of a hammer |
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| 09:12.51 | liveuser-work | now hit the nail on the head |
| 09:13.17 | liveuser-work | helium pours out of the hammer |
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| 09:14.18 | liveuser-work | toon town |
| 09:14.53 | liveuser-work | _systemd_is_evil: yeah what about it |
| 09:15.03 | liveuser-work | is it on all of the routers |
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| 09:18.21 | liveuser-work | is rodger rabbit on channel? |
| 09:18.47 | liveuser-work | toon town |
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| 09:21.03 | liveuser-work | hey bu there's a lot of music going on |
| 09:21.20 | liveuser-work | what's going on in the world today! |
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| 09:23.03 | liveuser-work | id4rk_ don't care to talk? |
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| 09:23.50 | liveuser-work | does anybody need anymore females? |
| 09:24.00 | Caterpillar | rotfl |
| 09:24.05 | liveuser-work | need any hive whores? |
| 09:24.08 | nkuttler | liveuser-work: this is a support channel. go to ##chat if you don't have support questions |
| 09:24.13 | liveuser-work | they are swarming me again |
| 09:24.15 | nkuttler | !ops |
| 09:24.15 | dpkg | Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel. |
| 09:24.22 | nkuttler | !ops ^^ |
| 09:24.22 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: nkuttler complains about a problem (see above) |
| 09:24.46 | liveuser-work | funny after the police swarm here come the girls |
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| 09:26.22 | liveuser-work | nkuttler: how seeing the files |
| 09:26.37 | liveuser-work | find what chewed up 89% of 5GB |
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| 09:27.54 | nkuttler | liveuser-work: please, make an effort to ask intelligible questions |
| 09:29.05 | nkuttler | see man ls, man du, man find |
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| 09:33.07 | liveuser-work | id4rk_: later |
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| 10:36.40 | antto | ,v avr-libc |
| 10:36.41 | judd | Package: avr-libc on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:1.8.0-2; jessie: 1:1.8.0+Atmel3.4.4-1; stretch: 1:1.8.0+Atmel3.5.0-1; buster: 1:2.0.0+Atmel3.6.0-1; sid: 1:2.0.0+Atmel3.6.0-1 |
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| 11:02.46 | booyah | what is the recommended mewthod nowdays to run my ~/firewall.sh before any other networking is active / before cards can be up? |
| 11:03.53 | exifbono | hello everyone. I have a debian with FDE, but when it boots I have an " unexpected irq trap at vector ab " and the decrypt password wont work. This is something. Any help? |
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| 11:04.29 | noodlepie | Whut's FDE? |
| 11:04.56 | noodlepie | Full Dis encryption? |
| 11:04.59 | noodlepie | disk |
| 11:05.04 | noodlepie | @:P-~ |
| 11:05.06 | exifbono | Yes, full disk encryption noodlepie |
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| 11:05.13 | noodlepie | ok |
| 11:05.18 | noodlepie | can't help, no idea |
| 11:05.27 | exifbono | thanks anyway, noodlepie =) |
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| 11:17.24 | nkuttler | exifbono: use the correct password? the message logged to the console shouldn't have any effect |
| 11:17.47 | nkuttler | exifbono: if in doubt, boot from a live distro and mount it from there.. |
| 11:18.27 | exifbono | nkuttler, password is correct, if it wasn't this message of the irq trap is anyway something new and seems unlikely that the two things are unrelated |
| 11:18.45 | nkuttler | boot something else, mount from there |
| 11:19.09 | nkuttler | or try booting a different kernel |
| 11:19.29 | noodlepie | That's OK. I would have liked to have been more helpful. Perhaps I should learn FDE and LVm and all that but I'm happy with UEFI boot and genkernal, for local customisation, at the moment. |
| 11:19.34 | noodlepie | @:P-~ |
| 11:19.36 | exifbono | How can I boot/install a different kernel without decrypting? |
| 11:20.03 | nkuttler | exifbono: i you encrypted /boot, you can't.. |
| 11:20.10 | nkuttler | boot something else, mount from there |
| 11:20.17 | exifbono | anyway I don't have the device with me right now, I'm doing remote help, as soon as I get phisical access I'll mount a live and see what happens from there |
| 11:20.33 | exifbono | boot is unencrypted, sure thing, couldn't get to GRUB otherwise =) |
| 11:20.49 | nkuttler | don't you know how to use the grub shellà |
| 11:20.53 | nkuttler | ? |
| 11:21.49 | noodlepie | Why couldn't you get to Grub on an encyrpted disk, ah, oh because you don't have the passphrase/can't get it to work... :P |
| 11:21.53 | noodlepie | hehe |
| 11:23.11 | exifbono | nkuttler, hint taken, I haven't thought of using the grub shell to use a different kernel... I'll study how to do that, thanks! |
| 11:24.04 | exifbono | noodlepie, usually in FDE /boot is unencrypted, otherwise you couldn't even get luks to work, afaik |
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| 11:32.24 | noodlepie | LUKs is new to me too, hehe. I really only want to learn C++ STL Templates more fully. I've a hunch there are a few clues here, in STL I mean, tidy programming and all that! |
| 11:32.31 | noodlepie | @:P-~ |
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| 12:21.19 | dka | what is the easiest way to run an android emulator on debian ? |
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| 12:21.27 | dka | i want to play a multiplayer game I have on my phone |
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| 12:22.10 | noodlepie | dka, dunno, Android X86? |
| 12:23.22 | dka | how do I start noodlepie ? |
| 12:23.46 | noodlepie | are you using android-ndk or android-studio? |
| 12:24.30 | noodlepie | I didn't know there was an Android environment for Linux in general. Still its Open Source so someone has probably built it? |
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| 13:01.32 | mcduadfuia | quit |
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| 13:11.50 | Vonor_ | o/ |
| 13:13.26 | Vonor_ | trying to install 32 bit version of java plugin (icedtea-8-plugin). already tried with "dpkg --add-architecture i386; apt update; apt install icedtea-8-plugin" but it's still the 64 bit version |
| 13:14.46 | SirLagz | Vonor_: apt-get install icedtea-8-plugin:386 ? |
| 13:14.51 | SirLagz | er, i386, not 386 |
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| 13:15.59 | Vonor_ | facepalms "I tried that with apt install, but not with apt-get install" |
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| 13:19.43 | operhiem1 | Does that give different behavior? That'd be surprising, but I'm not familiar with it. |
| 13:19.50 | themill | it doesn't |
| 13:20.06 | operhiem1 | By way of maybe-relevant background, I had a drive fail, and my btrfs root fs is currently degraded. I'm trying to apply a kernel package upgrade, but update-initramfs fails with "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: failed to get canonical path of `'. |
| 13:20.14 | operhiem1 | sorry, there was a newline in there |
| 13:21.04 | operhiem1 | I found https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=736928 with the same message, but seemingly not the same problem. grub-mkconfig outputs https://paste.debian.net/1023539/ . Any ideas what to check next? |
| 13:21.04 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/736928 in grub2 (open): «/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: failed to get canonical path of `'.»; severity: normal; opened: 2014-01-28; last modified: 2014-01-29. |
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| 15:10.01 | Azrael_- | how bad is it if i use snapd for installing applications? |
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| 15:15.02 | somiaj | Azrael_-: have you looked into the deatils. I personally just stick to stuff in the debian repos. Things that you want that are not available in the debian repos you should not be core components, and should be isolated from the debian system in places like /usr/local, /opt, or even $HOME. Provided snapd correctly isolates this software from the debian system it should be okay. |
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| 15:15.44 | Azrael_- | somiaj: thanks, didn't dig enough into the details yet |
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| 15:16.46 | dionysus69 | I am removing mysql/mariadb from kde/debian which got installed with the system |
| 15:16.52 | dionysus69 | it tells me it will remove akonadi-backend-mysql |
| 15:16.58 | dionysus69 | default-mysql-server-core |
| 15:17.16 | dionysus69 | it tells me it will install akonadi-backend-sqlite |
| 15:17.21 | dionysus69 | is that even needed? |
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| 15:18.11 | somiaj | dionysus69: you can run aptitude why akonadi-backend-sqlite, and see why it is needed. But many apps need do use some database to store stuff. I think firefox also uses sqlite. |
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| 15:18.33 | somiaj | or if you haven't finished the command, run aptitude why akonadi-backend-mysql and see what is requring this package. |
| 15:18.44 | minus | what is akonadi even |
| 15:18.47 | somiaj | dionysus69: in essence if apt says it needs it, it is needed (though it could be recommended) |
| 15:19.16 | minus | booted newly installed server - forget placing my ssh pubkey. derp. |
| 15:19.35 | somiaj | minus: according to apt search, then apt show akonadi-server, it is a cross-desktop Personal Information Management system, that maybe kde is using. |
| 15:19.58 | dionysus69 | it can use akonadi-backend-postgresql I guess |
| 15:20.03 | dionysus69 | I will go with that one |
| 15:20.03 | minus | i feel enlightened (not) |
| 15:20.07 | dionysus69 | since I am installing psql |
| 15:20.13 | minus | postgres is a good choice ð |
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| 15:20.45 | somiaj | dionysus69: yea looks like there are various backend databases akonadi can use. It does look like it is part of kde. Unsure how core it is, but it appears it at least is part of the metapackage. |
| 15:20.52 | minus | >It is one of the âpillarsâ (core technologies) behind the KDE SC 4 project |
| 15:20.56 | minus | i guess you need that |
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| 15:21.14 | dionysus69 | akonadi seems to be some PIM personal information management system |
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| 15:21.27 | dionysus69 | which seems like a weird niche thing to include in a DE |
| 15:21.27 | minus | https://community.kde.org/KDE_PIM/Akonadi |
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| 15:22.13 | minus | uninstall it and see if everything still works |
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| 15:24.11 | dionysus69 | to see what still works :D it's not an app |
| 15:24.24 | dionysus69 | not sure which apps use it and for what but it will show up I guess |
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| 15:25.22 | abd5932 | Hi, I try to enable pam_ssh via /etc/pam.d/su so once I `su` and enter SSH passphrase instead of my password - a ssh-agent would be launched and my keys "ssh-add"ed... however no ssh-agent is launched, after I provide my passphrase... here is the file: http://paste.debian.net/1023547 Any ideas? Thank you! |
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| 16:00.42 | juturnasepi0l | im new to all thus does abyibe have like 10 secibds t0 heko |
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| 16:08.04 | minus | Azrael_-: you just set up initramfs with dropbear, right? do you tear down the ip connectivity before continuing the boot? |
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| 16:25.01 | minus | hm, it should do that by default anyway; for some reason it wasn't working properly before but does now |
| 16:25.10 | minus | FDE success! |
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| 17:26.25 | squarecircle | ohai |
| 17:27.32 | squarecircle | we have some Debian 9 here and using Gnome 3 as DE. But it starts very slowly. After it boot up, it takes about 40-60 seconds to start the Gnome login screen |
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| 17:27.52 | squarecircle | meanwhile one can use a tty[1-7] |
| 17:28.27 | noodlepie | yep |
| 17:28.40 | squarecircle | what can we do to fix this? |
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| 17:28.57 | squarecircle | the system is already using a ssd |
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| 17:30.17 | squarecircle | neither my current Arch, nor my various Debian [8,9] boxes need that long to start the Gnome shell |
| 17:30.41 | squarecircle | does this indicates a hardware error? |
| 17:32.27 | squarecircle | any idea where to start debugging? |
| 17:36.22 | booyah | squarecircle: all of /var/log (latest files)? |
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| 17:54.25 | jelly | squarecircle: what does systemd-analyze say, which services are waited for? |
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| 17:58.39 | squarecircle | jelly: its stacus problem |
| 17:58.53 | squarecircle | jelly: hes irceable now :] |
| 17:59.16 | squarecircle | jelly: booyah thank you for your help :D |
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| 18:14.30 | squarecircle | stacu: systemd-analyze |
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| 18:16.02 | stacu | jelly: $ sudo systemd-analyze |
| 18:16.06 | stacu | Startup finished in 2.923s (kernel) + 1.172s (userspace) = 4.096s |
| 18:16.39 | rant | you mean systemd-analyze blame |
| 18:16.53 | rant | if you want to see individual service unit times |
| 18:16.53 | jelly | that doesn't sound like gdm took a long time or anything |
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| 18:19.20 | stacu | rant: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ryqK6xZzCB/ |
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| 18:20.22 | stacu | I noticed that all times listet are in ms range, but the time to load the loginscreen takes about 2min |
| 18:21.15 | newuser01 | Hi, I just finished installing Debian 9 ....Aftre log in I see only the wallpaper ....Nothing else ...Please help me out |
| 18:21.31 | jelly | so time to start gdm isn't actually time that gdm takes to start |
| 18:21.34 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:21.43 | rant | well ass jelly said the fact that all ovr userspace took only about 1sec makes the whole breakdown not real important, but it seems gdm was only 23ms |
| 18:22.20 | jelly | hopefully someone actually uses gdm and gnome around here and can help |
| 18:22.50 | squarecircle | first two things match, the third sadly not :/ |
| 18:23.15 | rant | but if you're talking about time taken FROM login at GDM until gnome is ready to use, thats no longer under systemd's purview |
| 18:23.40 | rant | that is gnome-session taking it from there |
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| 18:24.23 | newuser01 | Any ideas ? |
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| 18:24.55 | stacu | the timespan I mean is the one from where it says "dev/sda1: clean N files, N blocks" to the login screen |
| 18:25.48 | stacu | I can use tty2 via ALT+RIGHT |
| 18:26.14 | stacu | and after ~2min the gnome-login just appears |
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| 18:27.48 | newuser01 | Can anyone help ? |
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| 18:30.31 | squarecircle | newuser01: which desktop environment do you use? |
| 18:30.59 | newuser01 | squarecircle: XFCE |
| 18:33.13 | squarecircle | newuser01: how much RAM do you have? |
| 18:33.26 | newuser01 | squarecircle: 4GB |
| 18:33.54 | rant | stacu: well things like filesystem or network hangups are not uncommon but systemd's asynchronus approach is suppose to address that and its accounting of the boot is not showing the entire process having taken more than 5sec so that is the real mystery if you are not exaggerating |
| 18:34.56 | rant | stacu: I'd try installing lightdm and setting it to the default and see if this issue still occurs, which would rule out if gdm is actually the problem or not |
| 18:35.04 | squarecircle | rant: hes not ^^ sadly |
| 18:35.35 | squarecircle | newuser01: Laptop with optimus? |
| 18:35.54 | newuser01 | squarecircle: No desktop ...Intel graphics |
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| 18:39.10 | squarecircle | newuser01: hm, I have no idea, sorry |
| 18:39.21 | jg | I am considering moving from Ubuntu to Debian. The question is unstable/testing/stable. When I last used Debian a decade or so ago, stable was too stale, unstable too often broken, and testing, was, well, broken... What would today's advice be? |
| 18:39.36 | alkisg | stable :) |
| 18:39.51 | squarecircle | stable :) |
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| 18:40.48 | squarecircle | newuser01: I'd try another Desktop |
| 18:41.00 | squarecircle | newuser01: for working around the problem |
| 18:41.09 | squarecircle | newuser01: eg lxde |
| 18:41.29 | squarecircle | newuser01: I hope some other competent user may help you :) |
| 18:41.38 | newuser01 | squarecircle: OKay |
| 18:42.43 | squarecircle | newuser01: personnally, I'd recommend Gnome, but that is very big and consumes a lot of computing power (in comparison) |
| 18:42.45 | stacu | rant: thank you for helping :) with lightdm the desktop environment loads immediatly |
| 18:44.35 | rant | stacu: are you just goingg to use lightdm from now on or are you still looking to debug gdm? |
| 18:44.39 | noodlepie | GNOME/Mate/GNUStep are the True GNU experiences on your computer |
| 18:44.53 | noodlepie | not Mate, I meant GNOME 2 |
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| 18:45.50 | squarecircle | I'm off |
| 18:46.48 | stacu | rant: with lightdm the login appears immidiately, however it still takes ~15sec until it shows my desktop :/ |
| 18:47.46 | stacu | rant: personally I'd prefer gdm, but if I can get lightdm to run perfectly it would be fine too |
| 18:48.04 | rant | stacu: yeah thats just the time its taking to start the gnome-session you should be able to fine tune that and remove any things you dont need.. I havent used Gnome in ages but gnome session always started a lot of crap that wasnt really needed |
| 18:49.06 | rant | stacu: in mate its in System > Preferences > Personal > Startup Applications |
| 18:49.25 | rant | probably something similar in modern gnome that lets you tweak the startup |
| 18:50.07 | stacu | rant: I just re-installed debian, so there should not be too much in there |
| 18:50.34 | rant | heh.. yeah.. you apparently never payed much attention to how much cruft is in a DE |
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| 18:51.32 | stacu | rant: just checked, currently there are no startup applications listed |
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| 18:51.52 | rant | hmm odd.. mine shows far fewer than I remember but it still shows dbus, orca, etc |
| 18:52.28 | rant | it should be starting the panels, the desktop program, window manager, various backends for filesystem auto mounting, IPC, etc |
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| 18:55.29 | Ingvix | Hey, I need to know where is the ethernet device in the system so I can add it to certain services .service file's "after" section. For another service I found my openvpn*s virtual network device from /dev/devices/virtual/net/tun0 but can't seem to locate the corresponding directory for the ethernet. |
| 18:55.38 | stacu | rant: $ ls ~/.config/autostart/ its empty :/ |
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| 18:56.49 | rant | yeah I'm not talking about idk what you'd call em.. but user-defined startup apps, I'm talking about the DE's components |
| 18:57.00 | rant | gvfsd, dbus, gnome-panel..etc |
| 18:58.16 | Holic | hi |
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| 19:01.20 | stacu | rant: I found 2 ways to list them, the one I showed you and via gnome-session-properties, which just returns "command not found" |
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| 19:03.53 | rant | stacu: if you're really concerned about lag, it wouldnt hurt to check your logs look for any errors that may be hanging thigs up.. check something like smart or something to look for any issues with your disks..etc |
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| 19:04.48 | rant | stacu: and then if you still dont find any clues, I'd start a plain X session where it starts nothing but a terminal and then run the components of your DE individually and see which ones are taking a long time to start while you can see their output on that terminal |
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| 19:05.45 | rant | stacu: though the easiest solution is like the one we already did, where you switch from something bloated to something made to be lightweight like the GDM->lightdm thing.. Cinnamon, LXDE, XFCE..etc are all lighter.. even MATE is ligther than gnome |
| 19:06.33 | rant | stacu: but without doing some investigation you wont know if you have some more pressing underlying issue like a disk failing or something |
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| 19:08.07 | rant | personally startup/login times never really bothered me cause its not something I do often .. its more it being slow after I'm logged in and trying to do things that worries me |
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| 19:09.06 | rant | I'm tickled pink that this thin client I started using and installed stretch on, boots in under 20seconds |
| 19:09.24 | rant | yours is booting in under 5s so.. heh |
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| 19:19.42 | stacu | rant: now I installed the full gnome version (from gnome-core), but it just made things worse ^^ I'll try the plain session idea later today and check out other DEs, thanks a lot for your help ! :) |
| 19:19.58 | stacu | rant: now I installed the full gnome version (from gnome-core), but it just made things worse ^^ I'll try the plain session idea later today and check out other DEs, thanks a lot for your help ! :) |
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| 19:20.43 | stacu | rant: now I installed the full gnome version (from gnome-core), but it just made things worse ^^ I'll try the plain session idea later today and check out other DEs, thanks a lot for your help ! :) |
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| 19:21.05 | stacu | lag... sorry :( |
| 19:21.29 | squarecircle | learning how to irc you must, young padawan |
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| 19:21.41 | squarecircle | :] |
| 19:21.58 | rant | stacu: are you accessing your client over ssh by chance? |
| 19:22.19 | stacu | rant: xD maaaayyybe |
| 19:22.31 | rant | I've been using mosh lately.. drastically improves ssh lag issues |
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| 19:23.16 | rant | I'm using a f'n mesh collander with a really old netgear usb dongle taped to it for internet from a distant hotspot.. so I know lag :P |
| 19:23.32 | rant | mosh has made my life much easier :P |
| 19:23.50 | rant | !mosh |
| 19:23.50 | dpkg | well, mosh is a tool used to connect from a client computer to a server over the Internet, to run a remote terminal. Mosh is similar to SSH, with additional features meant to improve usability for mobile users |
| 19:23.54 | stacu | I'll take a look into that then ;) thanks, I'm off now |
| 19:24.23 | rant | thats a rather vague factoid |
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| 19:33.35 | dbvm_ | why do network interface names keep on changing on updates or if one repositions gpu in a different pcie slot? I understand that I can set a static name for my nic but just curious why the change as it seems rather dangerous if one hasn't setup the fixed name |
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| 19:34.34 | dbvm_ | could easily lose servers after an upgrade this way |
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| 19:36.54 | minus | dbvm_: you can create a udev rule to fix the named based on its mac address |
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| 19:37.56 | dbvm_ | minus: yup I've looked that up, just surprised that network interfaces are now handled this way |
| 19:39.00 | dbvm_ | might be just my lack of knowledge but I fail to see the benefit |
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| 19:45.16 | minus | dbvm_: if you have two network interfaces their order (eth0/eth1) could possibly change from one boot to the next |
| 19:45.39 | tomnor | the gnome-calendar is off by two hours, showing two hours more than other things |
| 19:45.48 | tomnor | how do I deal with that? |
| 19:46.16 | tomnor | the desktop calendar is correct |
| 19:46.23 | tomnor | the one seen all the time |
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| 19:52.58 | tomnor | how do I make gnome-calendar display times in my time-zone and not cest |
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| 20:02.14 | rant | tomnor: what does the command date show? |
| 20:02.27 | rant | Sun May 6 16:02:46 EDT 2018 |
| 20:02.56 | rant | if it shows CEST there, then your timezone is wrong in the system, when you fix the system timezone the apps will all change as well |
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| 20:03.08 | tomnor | sön 6 maj 2018 22:02:51 CEST |
| 20:03.13 | rant | !timezone |
| 20:03.13 | dpkg | A time zone is the standard time (aka local time) in a particular region. To change the timezone on Debian systems, execute "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata". Alternatively: "cp -b /usr/share/zoneinfo/$TZ /etc/localtime". Note that tzselect(1) does not change the timezone. Postfix users: execute "service postfix restart" to update localtime in the chroot. |
| 20:03.34 | tomnor | rant: ok |
| 20:03.43 | rant | as root, dpkg-reconfigure tzdata |
| 20:03.43 | tomnor | rant: how do I fix it? |
| 20:03.48 | tomnor | ok |
| 20:03.53 | rant | choose the correct timezone and all should be well after that |
| 20:04.22 | rant | tomnor: out of curiousity what is the language on your system? |
| 20:04.33 | tomnor | english |
| 20:04.59 | rant | "sön 6 maj" isnt english.. not even in Cockney :P |
| 20:05.19 | tomnor | öhhh, sorry, ok it would be swedish then |
| 20:05.34 | tomnor | but I mean..., what do I mean |
| 20:05.45 | rant | ah.. thought it was something like that.. but knew it wasnt a language I knew |
| 20:06.08 | tomnor | so for example other things in gnome is in english, like menus and such |
| 20:06.51 | rant | yeah for the most part the terminal and X are two seperate worlds :P |
| 20:07.02 | rant | different fonts, language settings, etc.. |
| 20:07.36 | rant | !locale |
| 20:07.36 | dpkg | A locale is a set of rules for presenting information to humans according to local conventions (date format, thousands separators, language, etc.). Ask me about <locales> to establish on a Debian system. http://wiki.debian.org/Locale http://mywiki.wooledge.org/locale |
| 20:07.44 | rant | !locales |
| 20:07.44 | dpkg | Use 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates <locale> definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time. Use "LANG=C command" to change the output language for a one off command, ask me about <localised errors>. See also <mac locales>. http://wiki.debian.org/Locale |
| 20:08.57 | tomnor | rant: the dpkg-reconfigure was defaulting to what I want -- europe stockholm |
| 20:08.59 | rant | tomnor: if you wanna keep your term swedish, just use that LANG=C before a command when you run a command you're gonna paste for support purposes, otherwise use the dpkg-reconfigure locales to change your locale to english |
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| 20:09.35 | tomnor | I think my locale is english, how do I show you? |
| 20:09.52 | tomnor | LANG=en_US.UTF-8 |
| 20:09.52 | tomnor | LANGUAGE= |
| 20:09.52 | tomnor | LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" |
| 20:09.52 | tomnor | LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8" |
| 20:09.55 | tomnor | LC_TIME=sv_SE.UTF-8 |
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| 20:10.42 | tomnor | rant: I was kicked out |
| 20:10.50 | tomnor | LANG=en_US.UTF-8 |
| 20:10.57 | tomnor | LC_TIME=sv_SE.UTF-8 |
| 20:11.18 | tomnor | the rest is en_us... |
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| 20:12.48 | tomnor | are you good at the ics formats? I can check and show something from that if useful |
| 20:13.31 | tomnor | DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20180610T200000 is shown as at 22:00 |
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| 20:17.36 | slxp | Hey all, is there a quick and easy way to remove all the stuff that came with Cinammon? I just switched to KDE and I have all these double programs now |
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| 20:23.43 | _KaszpiR_ | unfortunately Debian wasn't designed that way ;) |
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| 20:25.05 | _KaszpiR_ | slxp try 'apt-get purge packagename' and later 'apt-get autoremove' |
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| 20:25.57 | at0m | slxp: there's also deborphan that looks for orphaned packages (on which no other package depends) and offers to remove them. |
| 20:27.14 | rant | tomnor: thats a bit strange that only LC_TIME is different |
| 20:27.32 | rant | never seen that before.. I wonder how it got configured that way |
| 20:27.57 | tomnor | I think it is me, wanting all to remain in english but the date and time formats |
| 20:28.02 | tomnor | is that stupid |
| 20:28.25 | tomnor | for example, I dont want the , to mean decimal separator and such |
| 20:28.37 | rant | it is to me cause I dont understand swedish.. heh.. but may not be to you :P |
| 20:28.51 | tomnor | right |
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| 20:29.13 | tomnor | but I am suspecting gnome-calendar to interpret the ics data to be in cest |
| 20:29.17 | tomnor | maybe |
| 20:30.00 | rant | I have varying levels of comprehension of a many languages, English, Pittsburghese, Spanish, Latin, French, German, Danish, Russian, Romanian, Japanese... but not Swedish :P |
| 20:30.19 | tomnor | danish is close |
| 20:30.26 | tomnor | but I wouldn't understand it |
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| 20:30.33 | rant | IIRC Sweden is one of those countries with a lot of "official languages" |
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| 20:30.51 | tomnor | nja, not really |
| 20:30.57 | tomnor | finland has two |
| 20:31.11 | tomnor | we have a lot of dialects |
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| 20:32.52 | rant | I must be confusing with Switzerland then.. that has more than two official languages |
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| 20:34.13 | vlt | Even Germany has more than two. |
| 20:36.15 | tomnor | there is a couple of minority languges in Sweden, such as Sami |
| 20:36.24 | tomnor | and Finnish |
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| 20:47.21 | CarlosSutana | hi. i'm on Debian Stretch with KDE and i have this screenshot utility - Spectacle |
| 20:47.48 | CarlosSutana | and it takes some really shitty screenshots . how can i tweak it |
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| 20:50.37 | noodlepie | use gimp on the png image it tkaes? |
| 20:51.37 | noodlepie | or script it to output a file to some other utility you want to tweak/edit it with. |
| 20:52.18 | hypn0 | scrot? |
| 20:53.28 | hypn0 | or better still, change desktop :-) |
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| 21:18.31 | Iridos | I think this happened after a pm-hibernate. My time is wrong by two hours, I did a dpkg-reconfigure tzdata ⦠and that says that universal time is 23:17 and my local time is 1:17 |
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| 21:18.58 | Iridos | so somehow my local time is taken as utc time |
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| 21:19.58 | petemc | utc is 21:19 now |
| 21:20.11 | petemc | oh, thats your point |
| 21:20.37 | Iridos | right |
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| 21:21.32 | Iridos | that could be from the local clock on the laptop⦠|
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| 21:22.20 | Iridos | but⦠oh, just took some time |
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| 21:22.59 | Iridos | so I have local time in the bios and there is no ntpd restart that would fix it when unhibernating |
| 21:23.39 | Iridos | this actually came from the yearly reboot to windows for the tax return forms |
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| 21:24.34 | Iridos | ah, I can set "LOCAL" in /etc/adjtime |
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| 21:51.31 | karolin | hi i like this http://www.thedubber.altervista.org/ip/ |
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| 21:53.41 | abff | I'm having an issue with pulseaudio, trying to connect my desktop as a client to a pulse server running on my tv. both are debian, and I believe the issue is that when I copy to cookie from the server to my dt, it's not being copied correctly. I suspect this because `pactl info` returns two different cookie names even though I just copied one to the other and restarted both daemons |
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| 22:09.52 | nezZario | So this looks pretty bad. My kids were using my Debian box and I come back and I see this. |
| 22:10.22 | nezZario | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/R0mN0kz9/irccloudcapture258860179.jpg |
| 22:11.04 | Nekojimi | That indeed looks pretty worrying |
| 22:11.23 | nezZario | It looks like my root volume isn't recognized as ext3fs. But I can't figure out how to even get to a feck... Any idea? |
| 22:11.49 | nezZario | fsck * sorry |
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| 22:12.59 | Nekojimi | I'd personally burn a debian live flash drive or something and then use that to see what's up |
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| 22:14.28 | nezZario | Yep. I literally just erased mine a couple of days ago. Guess I better get to downloading. Thanks |
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| 22:18.44 | Azrael_- | nezZario: if you need to recover data and want the tools already provided you can try a live cd like CAINE |
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| 22:21.09 | cef | squarecircle: that startup issue is due to a security fix for CVE-2018-1108. See debian bugs 897599, 897632, 897917 and 898021. Simple workaround for the moment: Wiggle your mouse a lot (adds entropy). |
| 22:21.36 | nezZario | Are you alluding that it doesn't look like a fsck is going to fix this or just merely suggesting? |
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| 22:22.39 | Azrael_- | nezZario: i have no clue what the current state of your system is. i just remembered the few occasions where my system wasn't able to recognize any filesystem any more, no matter what i tried. (software and hardware errors) and with those tools i was able to recover a lot of my personal data |
| 22:23.30 | cef | pings jelly, booyah, rant - The above is what causes the delays at boot. You'll probably be seeing a lot more complaints about it. :/ |
| 22:24.04 | nezZario | Fair enough, thanks for the suggestion because I _amz concerned fsck isn't going to cover this :l |
| 22:24.11 | karlpinc | nezZario: Can't seem to access your image above. |
| 22:24.46 | Azrael_- | nezZario: if there is important data fsck can even do harm. just decide for yourself |
| 22:25.31 | cef | stacu: Your delay at boot is probably related to the fix for CVE-2018-1108 too. |
| 22:25.56 | nezZario | Erg, sorry, I'm on mobile I'm going to have to dig a charger up for an old laptop. It simply says: error: unknown file system\n Entering rescue mode\n grub rescue> |
| 22:26.04 | karlpinc | Azrael_-: nezZario: Not necessarly true that fsck can do no harm. If your drive is dying then you want to dd it somewhere and _then_ do recovery. On a 2nd copy. |
| 22:26.46 | Azrael_- | live cd and checking smart-values... |
| 22:27.17 | nezZario | I have 2x ssd's in here. I don't think it's a failure. I'm guessing that the machine got hard powered off suddenly at a really bad time. |
| 22:29.01 | karlpinc | nezZario: A hard power off on an SSD that does not have attached UPS to give it power can trash data all over the disk. |
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| 22:29.04 | tytan | test |
| 22:29.41 | tytan | hello everyone, do you think it's a bad idea to install debian root on zfs? |
| 22:29.44 | Azrael_- | karlpinc: that bad? thought the filesystems+os would be able to cover those cases today? |
| 22:30.01 | karlpinc | nezZario: SSDs re-write already written data, and not necessarly data anywhere "near" the data being written in the file system. So all kinds of data can get trashed when power goes out during a write. |
| 22:30.29 | nezZario | I've had to reinstall before due to a sudden power outage. Good to know it's specific to ssds |
| 22:30.52 | nezZario | I am investing in a damn ups, for real |
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| 22:31.21 | tytan | nezZario: what's a ups? |
| 22:31.22 | karlpinc | A UPS is critical for SSDs. I also like the idea of "dmsetup cache" with a spinning drive behind the SSDs. |
| 22:31.23 | Azrael_- | ups? just invested into a san for backups, ups isn't available in the near future |
| 22:31.44 | karlpinc | !ups |
| 22:31.45 | dpkg | Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) is a device containing a battery and circuitry to supply your computer with power for a limited time (depending on the battery) if there is any sort of interruption in the outlet power. Ask me about <nut>, <apcupsd>, or apparently teh nu kewl speling of oops, or THE WORLDS MOST HORRIBLE SHIPPING COMPANY |
| 22:32.16 | tytan | ok, thanks. I use them on server but not on workstations |
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| 22:33.14 | Azrael_- | i know i have already asked it a few times but always forgotten the answer: what backup can you suggest for linux+windows? (at best also for barebone-restore) |
| 22:33.20 | karlpinc | nezZario: Look into "debsums" after getting your box back up. A fsck will fix the file system but not necessarly recover the data. (And there's always that crazy idea where you do what's called "backing up" your system. ;-) |
| 22:33.26 | nezZario | Also tytan: depends. You may want to look into btrfs - it probably has better support in Linux specifically and similar but not one to one feature set. Would I use zfs on a production server? No. A well backed up workstation? Maybe if I really needed it |
| 22:34.40 | nezZario | I used zfs on a real backup server once and never had an issue but it wasn't the OS mount |
| 22:35.42 | tytan | nezZario: I was a FreeBSD guy for many years and I try to switch to linux now. ZFS is a must for my work now. If I get some linux distribution with root on zfs without risc it would make my life a lot easier. I'm afraid a simple kernel update makes my system unbootable |
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| 22:36.24 | cef | !CVE-2018-1108 |
| 22:36.24 | dpkg | [cve-2018-1108] a security fix for a lack of randomness at boot time, which delays the use of the kernel crng by applications till sufficient randomness is ready. This can cause delays (up to to 4+ minutes) in boot time just before or just after login (depending on setup). Short term workaround: Wiggle your mouse (introduces entropy) to shorten the delay. |
| 22:36.40 | karlpinc | nezZario: "Bad stuff" on power failure is not limited to SSDs. You can be in the middle of re-writing a file, say, on a spinning platter and trash the file when the power goes out. You won't generally trash a journaled file system though. And damage on spinning drives is limited to what ever files in the file systems are being written. |
| 22:36.42 | nezZario | I too was a freebsd guy for many years.. But are you sure btrfs won't suffice? |
| 22:37.33 | nezZario | I think just about all btrfs is missing as far as major features is block dedup. Maybe I'm wrong though. |
| 22:38.15 | tytan | nezZario: I already manage huge storage pools running ZFS this is why I try to stick to ZFS. But to be honest on root I'm mostly interested in snapshots and zfs send | recv ... which btrs can do just as well now |
| 22:38.24 | karlpinc | tytan: You can use zfs on Debian but you need to enable the non-free repo, I think. The ZFS license requires that it be compiled by you. IIRC. There is a Debian package that does this. |
| 22:38.36 | nezZario | karlpinc: trust me, it sucks. At this point I could probably talk my company into buying me a ups especially if this results in another reinstall. |
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| 22:39.16 | tytan | nezZario: I have never seen dedup in a production environment |
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| 22:39.57 | karlpinc | tytan: If you partition and format your drives before installing you can install Debian's root fs on zfs. (Can't say how much it sucks.) |
| 22:40.05 | nezZario | Anyways I appreciate all the suggestions I've got to go find a laptop charger and a couple USB drives at least. Wish me luck |
| 22:40.28 | karlpinc | tytan: There's also LVM. You can do snapshots with that using any fs. |
| 22:40.42 | tytan | nezZario: currently I use Debian 9 on a small NVMe SSD with just UEFI boot, swap, root and home. The rest is all ZFS |
| 22:40.57 | tytan | karlpinc: trust me, a ZFS snapshot is different ^^ |
| 22:41.22 | nezZario | Btrfs isn't though |
| 22:41.26 | karlpinc | tytan: I believe you. (Ah, the sad story of ZFS and Sun....) |
| 22:42.22 | Azrael_- | tytan: mind providing some more information where they differ? |
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| 22:42.27 | tytan | I could run KVM/QEMU VM's on a ZFS snapshot and just hourly snapshot that dataset and rollback to it without any problems or inconsistency. It also is easy to manage |
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| 22:43.26 | tytan | Azrael_-: I don't know how LVM does it, but ZFS works with copy on write on block level. LVM can't do that with traditional file systems |
| 22:44.06 | karlpinc | tytan: Why not? LVM and dm are block level. |
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| 22:47.37 | tytan | karlpinc: do you know the syntax to do a snapshot and rollback? I guess it's a lot harder than on ZFS |
| 22:47.42 | karlpinc | tytan: I recall some nice magic built into zfs, but don't remember what. But I thought that's exactly how LVM snapshots worked. Maybe it has to do with open/close files? LVM continues to write open files to the snapshot, and to the "regular disk". It's only when all files open when the snapshot was taken are closed that the snapshot is no longer written to. At least that's my recollection, haven't thought about it in a long time. |
| 22:48.43 | karlpinc | tytan: I think zfs is easier. I forget the LVM syntax. Have to look it up because I dont' do it much. |
| 22:49.04 | Azrael_- | haven't used lvm snapshots much but the syntax was really easy |
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| 22:49.52 | tytan | ok, let me take a look at "man lvm" |
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| 22:52.32 | Azrael_- | tytan: the command is "lvcreate" |
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| 22:53.51 | tytan | right |
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| 23:03.32 | jim | tytan, you might want to look at lvcreate --help |
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| 23:04.05 | tytan | jim: that's a good idea, thanks |
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| 23:04.13 | KindaNoob | hoi |
| 23:04.19 | KindaNoob | I have problem |
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| 23:04.22 | jim | hi |
| 23:04.31 | karlpinc | !ask |
| 23:04.31 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 23:04.44 | KindaNoob | I setted up new network card and it grabs interface name |
| 23:04.57 | KindaNoob | So now I have 2 cards |
| 23:05.08 | KindaNoob | and I dunno how to switch their names |
| 23:05.31 | KindaNoob | I have change values in interfaces |
| 23:05.32 | jim | do you want to change their names? or use the other name? |
| 23:06.03 | karlpinc | !z70 |
| 23:06.03 | dpkg | This is outdated, for Stretch see https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ oldfactoid: udev has the ability to statically rename Ethernet cards based on MAC address. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules, edit this file to change the mappings. To apply changes: «udevadm trigger» or reload the relevant driver module. See also <udev>. |
| 23:06.28 | KindaNoob | 2 interfaces, one is old and should has ip-address of local network |
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| 23:06.44 | karlpinc | KindaNoob: The right answer is to see the wiki page and use the new name. |
| 23:06.44 | KindaNoob | and new one is't event connected |
| 23:06.50 | karlpinc | !interfaces |
| 23:06.50 | dpkg | Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration . See also <dhcp client>, <resolv.conf>, <static route>. |
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| 23:07.21 | jim | what are the names of your interfaces? |
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| 23:07.55 | KindaNoob | enpls3 - is old, enpls9 new |
| 23:08.13 | KindaNoob | enpls3 is built-in in motherboard |
| 23:08.26 | jim | so it' |
| 23:08.28 | jim | err |
| 23:08.51 | KindaNoob | enpls3 now doesn't have enything, enpls9 has all from it |
| 23:08.52 | jim | so the motherboard interface is now called enpls9? |
| 23:08.56 | KindaNoob | nope |
| 23:09.15 | KindaNoob | enpls3 is motherboard |
| 23:09.21 | KindaNoob | enpls3 - external |
| 23:09.24 | KindaNoob | 9 |
| 23:09.29 | cef | KindaNoob: so you want to use the new interface but not the one on the motherboard, yes? |
| 23:09.41 | jim | ok, are those names ok? |
| 23:10.04 | KindaNoob | I wanna use both interfaces, but return all configuration that new interface grabbed |
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| 23:10.18 | KindaNoob | jim: yes |
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| 23:10.42 | jim | ok... does that machine have networking now? |
| 23:11.14 | KindaNoob | enpls3 is UP, but not configured |
| 23:11.38 | jim | so you can't (for example) ping yahoo.com? |
| 23:11.40 | KindaNoob | I add some stuff into rules.d |
| 23:12.09 | KindaNoob | yeah, because all network settings from old interface migrated to the new one, that is not connected |
| 23:12.37 | KindaNoob | And I don't want to reconfigure them |
| 23:12.51 | KindaNoob | I think there is way to swap it |
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| 23:13.07 | jim | ok, let's back up a couple steps |
| 23:13.49 | jim | first let's get what you want... |
| 23:14.10 | jim | do you have like an isp router that you normally connect to? |
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| 23:14.21 | KindaNoob | Nope |
| 23:14.24 | KindaNoob | Static only |
| 23:14.30 | jim | or if not, how do you get your net? |
| 23:14.39 | KindaNoob | enterprise network |
| 23:15.04 | jim | what device do you connect your ethernet cable to? |
| 23:15.28 | KindaNoob | Switch to PC |
| 23:15.49 | jim | so you connect to a switch? |
| 23:15.51 | KindaNoob | And from that switch to server-room |
| 23:15.54 | KindaNoob | yep |
| 23:16.02 | jim | ok |
| 23:16.19 | jim | what do you want for your other interface? |
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| 23:16.43 | KindaNoob | wifi router for other employees |
| 23:16.53 | jim | ok |
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| 23:17.16 | jim | now, which interface on your machine goes to which? |
| 23:17.23 | ryouma | my 2008 dell bios lists my external drive first in the boot sequence, but it does not boot from it. i tried gpt + bios boot partition, then converted to mbr and set the bootable flag. is it possible that this bios only boots from cd or internal drive, despite listing the device? |
| 23:17.25 | jim | that you want that is |
| 23:17.50 | KindaNoob | enpls3 - switch, enpls9 - wifi (later, not now) |
| 23:18.17 | jim | so the motherboard interface goes to the switch? |
| 23:18.22 | KindaNoob | yep |
| 23:18.38 | jim | ok... can you ping yahoo.com? |
| 23:20.09 | KindaNoob | I re-plug switch-cable to enpls9 and yes, now I can |
| 23:20.36 | jim | ok, keep it there temporarily... gonna do a couple things with it |
| 23:21.10 | cef | ryouma: some bioses have options to stop you booting from external devices (like USB). might be buried somewhere else in the bios like security, booot options, etc. |
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| 23:21.22 | jim | first, cat /etc/network/interfaces | nc termbin.com 9999 # this will pastebin your interfaces file, you'll get a url |
| 23:22.29 | ryouma | cef: looked all over for that. somebody on ##hardware is telling me that, despite being listed in teh boot sequence, NO external drive can be expected to boot a machine that old (ca. 2008) |
| 23:22.44 | jim | back in a few mins |
| 23:23.40 | cef | ryouma: it's possible. I've hard that you can sometimes 'if' you use a cd image on the device. USB booting wasn't that common before 2008, but some systems did have it. |
| 23:23.57 | cef | hard => heard |
| 23:24.43 | ryouma | hmm, my whole idea here is to have my running debian system work on this thing that i'd just plug in. idk what contortions i'd have to go through to use iso to achieve that |
| 23:26.01 | cef | ryouma: does it have a cdrom? You could possibly make a cdrom that "boots" the external drive for you. Not really a clean solution tho, and I personally don't know what would be involved. |
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| 23:27.04 | ryouma | cef: i have heard of such a thing, and would be delighted to do it. idk the details though. |
| 23:28.09 | ryouma | my idea is, this flash drive would contain a snapshot of my running debian system. then, if an upgrade to stretch is disastrous, i can just transfer it back to the internal drive and don('t have to reinstall anything. i have that all set up already. |
| 23:28.26 | ryouma | (and to get stuff done i can just boot to it) |
| 23:28.35 | ryouma | (i have accessibility issues with live cds) |
| 23:28.41 | ryouma | (and installatiosn) |
| 23:29.05 | KindaNoob | hah, all ports, except 80 and 443 are blocked |
| 23:29.08 | KindaNoob | I |
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| 23:31.31 | jim | hmm, unfortunate... |
| 23:31.48 | cef | ryouma: I found this one, YMMV. : https://www.plop.at/en/plopkexec/download.html - Download the plopkexec ISO and apparently you can sdelect to boot from a USB even if the system doesn't normally support it. |
| 23:34.27 | cef | ryouma: basically it looks for any syslinux, lilo, grub & grub2 configs, and gives you a list of them to select from. |
| 23:34.50 | KindaNoob | wait |
| 23:34.58 | KindaNoob | I'll copy it by hands |
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| 23:35.50 | KindaNoob | http://pastebin.com/8tKCuPXR |
| 23:35.56 | ryouma | cef: that sounds good. where did you find out wihch one to dl and taht it would do that? i am still trying to digest the site. |
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| 23:36.50 | KindaNoob | jim |
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| 23:37.44 | jim | KindaNoob, what do you get for: ls /etc/network/interfaces.d/* | wc -l |
| 23:37.55 | cef | ryouma: I found ref to it in (of all things) a youtube video. the plopkexec one says it does pretty much just (nothing extra like the full version does), and seems to be the one most recently built (2016). It's also the smallest ISO out of the lot (@ 6MB) |
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| 23:39.56 | KindaNoob | 22 |
| 23:40.33 | ryouma | cef: so i want the plopkexec.iso one not the plopkexec one? |
| 23:40.55 | cef | ryouma: correct. download that, burn to a CD, boot CD with USB attached. |
| 23:42.00 | cef | ryouma: fwiw: screenshots: https://www.plop.at/en/plopkexec/screenshots.html |
| 23:42.05 | jim | KindaNoob, ok, try it again like this: ls -CF /etc/network/interfaces.d/* | wc -l |
| 23:42.23 | KindaNoob | 15 |
| 23:42.31 | jim | wow |
| 23:42.56 | KindaNoob | I'm already in that dir so I just "ls -CF *" |
| 23:43.03 | KindaNoob | is it meaningful? |
| 23:43.11 | ryouma | cef: thank you very much. i don't suppose there is any means of verifying it? this would be the first non-debian (i.e. non-signed) package i have ever used. |
| 23:43.31 | KindaNoob | ah\ |
| 23:43.34 | KindaNoob | my bad |
| 23:43.41 | jim | well it tells me we can't paste that listing into the channel, it's too big... |
| 23:43.52 | KindaNoob | 24 then 17 |
| 23:44.15 | ryouma | cef: o |
| 23:44.26 | cef | ryouma: there's an md5sum file on the download page, but other than that, not that I'm aware. |
| 23:44.33 | jim | ok, can you pastebin the ls -CF listing? |
| 23:44.59 | ryouma | cef: i'm guessing here, but does it boot a tiny little linux distro that then chroots to your usb or something? |
| 23:45.20 | jim | I guess there are a -lot- of files in ther |
| 23:45.26 | cef | ryouma: there could be others. the things to google for are stuff like "CD Chainload", "boot USB from CD" and "USB kexec" |
| 23:45.31 | *** join/#debian t0adst00l (~sluggo@gateway/tor-sasl/prometheusfalli/x-99064168) |
| 23:45.49 | KindaNoob | it returns nothing |
| 23:45.55 | *** join/#debian deznuts (uid92154@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqxxaaqwxbkdlyjc) |
| 23:46.08 | cef | ryouma: it either chainloads it using the bootloader, or more likely it's using the kexec functionality in the kernel to start the new kernel (the one on your USB). |
| 23:46.10 | jim | wait :) |
| 23:46.29 | KindaNoob | ls -a returns only . and .. |
| 23:46.37 | cef | ryouma: so you definitely end up running the same debian kernel, etc. |
| 23:46.39 | jim | could you tell us your pwd :) |
| 23:46.54 | KindaNoob | wat? |
| 23:46.59 | KindaNoob | dude |
| 23:47.04 | cef | bad jim! bad bad jim! :P |
| 23:47.11 | KindaNoob | srs |
| 23:47.16 | Nekojimi | ;_; what did I do |
| 23:48.13 | cef | KindaNoob: jim is being silly.. but yeah.. not a good look jim! |
| 23:48.39 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 23:48.57 | cef | ok, off to work. *sigh* have fun people. |
| 23:49.16 | cef | !CVE-2018-1108 |
| 23:49.16 | dpkg | hmm... cve-2018-1108 is a security fix for a lack of randomness at boot time, which delays the use of the kernel crng by applications till sufficient randomness is ready. This can cause delays (up to to 4+ minutes) in boot time just before or just after login (depending on setup). Short term workaround: Wiggle your mouse (introduces entropy) to shorten the delay. |
| 23:49.20 | KindaNoob | I've read that I should add some file like 1-user-udev.rules |
| 23:49.44 | KindaNoob | and set all config for network cards in it |
| 23:49.46 | cef | ^^ if people complain their computers hang at bootup for a while, direct them at this. |
| 23:49.59 | KindaNoob | you know, MAC->name |
| 23:50.02 | jim | KindaNoob, when you look at ls -CF /etc/network/interfaces.d | wc -l before, you say you're getting like 15 lines... |
| 23:50.18 | KindaNoob | yeah, I was mistaken |
| 23:50.20 | KindaNoob | my bad |
| 23:50.30 | KindaNoob | 24 without -CF and 17 with -CF |
| 23:50.33 | jim | so there's nothing in that dir? |
| 23:50.48 | KindaNoob | I can't see anything |
| 23:50.58 | KindaNoob | it returns caret and that's all |
| 23:51.15 | cef | jim: just get him to pastebin `ls -CF /etc/network/interfaces.d` then. :P |
| 23:51.32 | KindaNoob | nothing, guys |
| 23:51.44 | KindaNoob | nothing to pastebin |
| 23:52.41 | cef | KindaNoob: weird, cos if there's nothing there, `wc -l` on that should return 0 |
| 23:52.44 | jim | ok, so there's no interface definitions |
| 23:53.10 | cef | KindaNoob: `ls -CF /etc/network/interfaces.d | wc -l` - you did include the | yes? |
| 23:53.19 | KindaNoob | yea, sure |
| 23:53.29 | KindaNoob | Without it I won't get number |
| 23:53.34 | jim | that's the bottom line... nothing in that dir, and no interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces... |
| 23:53.46 | KindaNoob | yep |
| 23:53.48 | jim | howcome the interface is up :) |
| 23:53.49 | cef | jim: probably using NetworkManager |
| 23:53.57 | jim | oh ok |
| 23:54.12 | cef | ok, work. later. |
| 23:54.15 | *** join/#debian frju365[IRC] (~frju365@yunohost/member/frju365) |
| 23:54.30 | jim | KindaNoob, are you using network-manager? |
| 23:54.45 | KindaNoob | dunno. How to check? |
| 23:55.34 | *** join/#debian Thedarkb-X40 (~beno@51-171-48-243-dynamic.agg3.kny.prp-wtd.eircom.net) |
| 23:55.55 | jim | umm, network-manager has many forms, one of them is a little applet where you can connect interfaces to networks using a graphical interface |
| 23:56.39 | jim | how did you tell your debian on your computer about your interfaces? or did it just boot that way? |
| 23:56.46 | KindaNoob | I think yes, I use GUI based tool for configuring network |
| 23:57.10 | jim | ok, maybe that's network-manager |
| 23:57.53 | jim | (or it could be one of maybe 2 or 3 others, wicd is one) |
| 23:59.22 | jim | the bottom line here... if you want to switch the interface you're using, you can deal with the gui tool, or you can add stuff to /etc/network/interfaces |
| 23:59.31 | ryouma | cef: do you know if it then matters whether the drive is gpt or mbr? i'm guessing it wouldn't matter in the case of plop etc. |
| 23:59.52 | KindaNoob | ok, will try second option |
| 23:59.58 | KindaNoob | but later, I should work now |
