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| 01:42.57 | hemebond | Is there a way to see what cflags a package was compiled with? I'm trying to figure out of sdl2 on Debian testing was compiled with Vulkan support. |
| 01:43.45 | somiaj | hemebond: you could download the source package and look through the debian/rules script |
| 01:44.06 | hemebond | somiaj: I just stumbled across https://salsa.debian.org/sdl-team/libsdl2/ |
| 01:44.08 | somiaj | hemebond: you could also check the /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/changelog.Debian.gz and see if the changelog mentions anything about that. |
| 01:44.14 | hemebond | I'm guessing that's what you mean> |
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| 01:44.26 | somiaj | yea, I htink there are online repos with the source package too |
| 01:44.59 | somiaj | hemebond: the top of the debian/rules script lists a set of confflags being used. |
| 01:45.19 | somiaj | okay, I see this in the rules script, # disable Wayland and Vulkan on non-Linux, they do not support other kernels at the moment, so my guess is 'yes' |
| 01:45.25 | hemebond | Oh, brilliant stuff. Thank you. |
| 01:45.31 | somiaj | oh wait, # the SDL module for Vulkan not compiling even in Linux at the moment |
| 01:45.59 | somiaj | again this is the current upstream, if running stable, you may want the actual source package being used in stable (not the current one in unstable) |
| 01:46.14 | hemebond | I believe I'm on testing. |
| 01:46.28 | somiaj | in that case, in the future, questions should be directed to #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
| 01:47.02 | hemebond | Okay. I've found my version in the repo branches and the rules are the same. So Vulkan should be enabled. |
| 01:47.06 | hemebond | Thanks for the help. |
| 01:47.46 | somiaj | hemebond: no it shouldn't |
| 01:48.10 | somiaj | hemebond: I see a line 39 that they are disabling it because of that last commont I pasted, "# the SDL module for Vulkan not compiling even in Linux at the moment" |
| 01:48.17 | hemebond | Yeah, just saw that. |
| 01:48.25 | hemebond | Darn it. |
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| 01:49.30 | t3st3r | furthermore, deb testing seems to have screwed qemu hell a lot... but its probably for #debian-next @ oftc... |
| 01:50.33 | somiaj | well search the BTS for similar bugs, and if you find them, report them. Part of running testing is part of the community 'testing' debian for the next release to fix issues. |
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| 02:04.12 | thomas__ | Id like to install lenny and then chroot into it. I tried debootstrap lenny debian_lenny/ http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/lenny/Release but it does not work. Debootstrap says: Failed getting release file http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/lenny/Release/dists/lenny/Release. Why? |
| 02:05.03 | somiaj | thomas__: unsure there, but old releases aren't really supported. |
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| 02:05.32 | somiaj | unsure why you are calling the repo debian_lenny, that does seem strange. |
| 02:06.29 | somiaj | oh I see, haha that is the name of the chroot dir. |
| 02:06.53 | thomas__ | Yes. |
| 02:07.08 | somiaj | I see your problem too, check what it is complaining about and see what sort of thigns it 'adds' to the url |
| 02:07.41 | somiaj | yea, I got an key error is all, don't want to debug it further, but it is your mirror url getting in your way |
| 02:07.53 | thomas__ | Oooh :-) |
| 02:11.00 | thomas__ | Okay, Ive shortened the URL. This brings me one step further. Thank you <3 |
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| 02:17.40 | thomas__ | It seems to work. Yay, great :-) |
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| 02:44.42 | f3r70rr35f | does anyone knows if there's going to be a vim 8.1 upgrade soon on debian9? |
| 02:46.01 | somiaj | debian stable is a frozen system, it doens't get 'upgrades' |
| 02:46.08 | somiaj | ,v vim |
| 02:46.09 | judd | Package: vim on amd64 -- wheezy: 2:7.3.547-7; wheezy-security: 2:7.3.547-7+deb7u4; wheezy-backports: 2:7.4.488-3~bpo70+1; jessie-security: 2:7.4.488-7+deb8u2; jessie: 2:7.4.488-7+deb8u3; stretch: 2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u1; buster: 2:8.0.1766-1; sid: 2:8.0.1766-1 |
| 02:46.50 | somiaj | but since 8.1 isn't even in testing/unstable, that would have to happen frist before making a backport for it |
| 02:46.58 | michael2 | does anyone know how to connect to a WPA secured wifi AP from command line? i.e. using wpa_supplicant? |
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| 02:48.15 | annadane | f3r70rr35f, wait for a backport or download vim yourself from their website, or run it in a VM, but as said, it's not in sid yet, so that's useless at the moment |
| 02:48.33 | somiaj | michael2: read /usr/share/doc/wpa_supplicant there are good docs in there. I use wpa_supplicant only and use it in roam mode. |
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| 02:49.12 | michael2 | somiaj: you dont use network manager or anything like that? |
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| 02:49.50 | f3r70rr35f | annadane: ty |
| 02:49.56 | somiaj | na, wpa_supplicant in roam moade works great for my laptop. I use the interfaces file and manually configure all my other wired machines |
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| 02:54.28 | RoadRunner | could anyone suggest a tool to diag/check a QuickCam; like just to see yourself from it (independently from any other app)? |
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| 02:58.37 | dvs | cheese? |
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| 03:00.40 | RoadRunner | dvs: sorry, was your answer directed to me? |
| 03:00.57 | somiaj | RoadRunner: apt show cheese |
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| 03:08.06 | michael2 | somiaj: so you roam different networks with wpa_supplicant running as a daemon which constantly checks available networks and uses those profiles to connect to various AP's? |
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| 03:09.19 | somiaj | Usually this only happens when resume my laptop from suspend, it will find the network I'm currently at (I really only use 2) and connect to it |
| 03:10.28 | michael2 | what if you need to connect to a different network can you connect using a different profile? |
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| 03:10.47 | somiaj | sure |
| 03:10.58 | somiaj | this is all configured via a config file or use wpagui as a gui tool |
| 03:11.34 | michael2 | do you store the credentials for the various AP's in /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf or /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 03:11.39 | Nautilus_ | not OP, but us wpagui similar to nmtui (but maybe graphic instead of text based)? |
| 03:11.51 | somiaj | in the wpa_supplicant.conf file which is only readable by root |
| 03:11.54 | Nautilus_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:12.12 | somiaj | no wpagui is an actual gui in xorg, wpacli is a command line tool |
| 03:12.20 | somiaj | nmtui is a curses utility, whcih is different |
| 03:12.41 | Nautilus_ | i might give it a try |
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| 03:13.43 | michael2 | somiaj: so once you have different profiles stored in /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf - what command would you use to connect to a new AP? |
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| 03:14.03 | somiaj | michael2: I use the gui, so unsure on what wpacli commands would be, read the man page |
| 03:15.39 | michael2 | I think the command will be: wpa_supplicant -c/tmp/profile.conf -Dwext -<daemonise> |
| 03:15.59 | michael2 | but thats using an adhoc config file |
| 03:16.13 | somiaj | you can have the multiple profiles all in the same config file and use wpacli to switch between them |
| 03:16.35 | michael2 | ah yes - thats what I want to know about |
| 03:16.41 | RoadRunner | dvs: somiaj: thanks for the cheese suggestion; checked it out; any ideas for something even more basic/light weight, since I am just trying to diag not do any pic sharing? |
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| 03:17.47 | dvs | RoadRunner, not from me |
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| 03:39.07 | limbo_ | Is there any way to run a progrm that blocks until a certain process finishes? |
| 03:39.22 | limbo_ | e.g. wait 889 ; ./foo |
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| 03:51.57 | somiaj | limbo_: once a process runs I don't know of a way unless you write a script that keeps checking for it. but you could od foo1 && foo2, foo2 will run after foo1 exits with no errors. |
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| 03:52.19 | somiaj | limbo_: or foo1; foo2 (foo2 after foo1, but dosen't worry about errors) |
| 03:52.39 | somiaj | there maybe a tool that does this already, but you could use some tool to keep an eye on the pid's and run once one is done |
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| 03:59.38 | michael2 | I have connected to wifi using wpa_supplicant. `ip a' shows the network interface is up. and has an IP address `iwconfig wlp3s0' shows the wireless adapter is associated. yet I don't have an internet connection - what else should I check? |
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| 04:00.33 | somiaj | what do you mean by connection? What ip address does ip a show? |
| 04:00.40 | somiaj | does it use dhcp? maybe dhclient wasn't run |
| 04:01.20 | michael2 | connection in the sense of both wireless (associcated and autthenticated to an AP) |
| 04:01.35 | michael2 | and internet (IP ) connection |
| 04:01.58 | michael2 | I thought wpa_supplicant runs dhclient itself? |
| 04:02.53 | somiaj | it might depend on how it is configured. |
| 04:03.06 | somiaj | I don't have my laptop here so I can't play with or test things, I rarely use wireless |
| 04:03.33 | michael2 | somiaj: you were right - needed to run dhclient |
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| 04:05.17 | michael2 | it seems wpa_supplicant will run it for you when you don't have an IP - but on subsequent invocations - wpa_supplicant wont request a new IP address |
| 04:05.41 | michael2 | yet it is necessary to get a new one... |
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| 04:07.06 | somiaj | not sure, seems to request new ip address for me, but you can also configure this all in the interfaces file and just use ifup/ifdown with aliases. Just make sure the interfaces file is readable by root only |
| 04:07.19 | somiaj | but I do change networks, not sure about this if you are on the same network. |
| 04:09.00 | michael2 | I thought with ifup/down you configured on a per NIC basis? therefore a NIC can't have a "starbuck" profile, "work", "home" etc? |
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| 04:09.40 | michael2 | a NIC get a config - then its stuck with it? |
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| 04:10.28 | somiaj | michael2: ifup interface=alias |
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| 04:10.49 | somiaj | by default ifup eth0 means eth0=eth0, where eth0 is the alias in the interfaces file |
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| 04:13.47 | michael2 | somiaj: handy to know. Ive cobbled together my own "aliases" for now - but proper aliases sound like the way to go in the future |
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| 06:18.17 | michael2 | hi all. Ive connected to a wireless access point using wpa_supplicant - now I want to connect to another but the commands which worked before dont work now. Is ther any way I can just reset the wireless and network interfaces back to a default state - without rebooting? |
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| 06:24.44 | somiaj | michael2: sure remove the module and load it again, modprobe -r module, modprobe module |
| 06:25.07 | somiaj | you could also ifdown --force foo if you have done this with ifup/ifdown, you can also manually reset everything with ip and iw |
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| 06:31.12 | michael2 | somiaj: ifdown reported "no known interface wlp3s0" - do I need to run it with some arguments ? otherwise if I go the modprobe route - which module do I remove? the wifi device driver? |
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| 06:32.53 | theband1t | hello? |
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| 06:38.23 | darxmurf | hello |
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| 06:40.03 | dionysus69 | behavior that I have seen for the first time |
| 06:40.15 | dionysus69 | he following packages have been kept back: |
| 06:40.15 | dionysus69 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:40.32 | dionysus69 | dist upgrade doesn't upgrade them, any ideas? |
| 06:40.40 | annadane | !bat |
| 06:40.40 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
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| 07:00.57 | Iridos | dionysus69, you can always do "apt-get install remmina-common" or so to see what upgrading a specific package does, too⦠|
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| 07:06.03 | longchass_ | hi |
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| 07:06.46 | jtay | longchass_: hello |
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| 07:07.11 | [ManHunt] | heya |
| 07:08.32 | annadane | it's too late for IRC chatting, we should all go to bed :P |
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| 07:09.49 | longchass_ | its 4 pm over here hahah |
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| 07:11.34 | [ManHunt] | I'm timeless |
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| 07:13.18 | jelly | s/bed/work/ |
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| 07:14.18 | [ManHunt] | ahahah, just boot'd up a desktop to watch job announces :D |
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| 07:33.11 | annadane | dionysus69, we're discussing this in the #debian on OFTC as well; once you find out, going down the dependency chain, what's being held back, if there's a dependency in backports, try apt -t stretch-backports install <whatever the package is> |
| 07:33.36 | annadane | packages.debian.org should have this information with the version numbers and which release each package is in |
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| 07:49.23 | Ze` | Hi, is system user like tomcat8 will have always the same uid on several servers ? |
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| 07:51.39 | dionysus69 | ok thanks Iridos annadane :) |
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| 07:53.52 | annadane | !crosspost |
| 07:53.52 | dpkg | Posting the same question in several places at the same time (IRC channels, news groups, mailing lists, forums) is impolite; your time is NOT more valuable than everyone else's. Your question might be answered elsewhere, meanwhile we are wasting our time doing research for a problem you've already solved. Cross-posting can also make you look like a spammer and get you k:lined. See also <multiple ask> <hurry>. |
| 07:54.06 | annadane | Ze`, ^ |
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| 08:01.17 | winny | I want to create a VM image that automatically generates ssh host keys on first boot, currently I'm trying to achieve this with adding a systemd override for ssh.service that adds a ExecStartPre to a shell script that tests if the dsa key exists or runs dpkg-reconfigure -f noninteractive openssh-server, but now it hangs on startup, any ideas what could be causing that? Is there an easier way to accomplish |
| 08:01.19 | winny | this |
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| 08:12.49 | ChrisH | winny: shouldn't that happen automagically if there are NO host keys on first start? |
| 08:12.58 | jolt | winny: Maybe you should look at cloud-init, that is what all VPS providers etc use |
| 08:13.15 | jolt | winny: And i think ChrisH is right, way simpler :D |
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| 08:22.37 | ChrisH | KDE Question. Windows/Meta + TAB switches between current view and something different looking. In KDE Docu I only found this switches between virtual desktop, but it changes somehting different. Q1: How is the different thing named? Q2: How to reduce the currently existing 3 switchable desktops to one? If you start eg. thunderbird on one of the desktops it is no reachable/visible from the other ones..... |
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| 08:22.43 | ChrisH | . I am pretty confused on this behaviour. |
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| 08:32.11 | Fox | ChrisH: maybe ask #kde ? :) |
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| 08:33.56 | High_Priest | hi guys, anyone here using openvpn? after reboot, on my system, tun0 interface does not have an IP address (although the service is started). Only if I do service restart (systemctl restart openvpn) tun0 interface gets the IP. Anyone here having similar issues? |
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| 08:37.02 | jelly | ChrisH: "Activities" maybe? |
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| 08:41.24 | High_Priest | brb |
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| 08:43.44 | LeaderBaconz | hello |
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| 08:45.12 | LeaderBaconz | hey |
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| 08:48.12 | ChrisH | jelly: yep... that's it. Thanks. |
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| 08:56.48 | dionysus69 | oh btw |
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| 08:57.00 | dionysus69 | just tried to install remina manually but it gave me this error: remmina : Depends: libssh-4 (>= 0.8.0~20170825.94fa1e38) but 0.7.3-2 is to be installed |
| 08:57.27 | dionysus69 | Debian is so stable that this happened for the first time in 3 years xD |
| 08:57.33 | jelly | !bat |
| 08:57.33 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 08:57.35 | jelly | dionysus69: ^ |
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| 09:00.44 | petn-randall | ,v libssh-4 |
| 09:00.45 | judd | Package: libssh-4 on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.5.4-1+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 0.5.4-1+deb7u3; wheezy-backports: 0.5.4-3~bpo70+1; jessie: 0.6.3-4+deb8u2; jessie-security: 0.6.3-4+deb8u2; stretch: 0.7.3-2; stretch-backports: 0.8.0~20170825.94fa1e38-1~bpo9+1; buster: 0.8.0~20170825.94fa1e38-1; sid: 0.8.0~20170825.94fa1e38-2 |
| 09:01.26 | petn-randall | Looks like a Frankendebian to me, but only the info from the factoid will tell. |
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| 09:03.05 | jelly | ,v remmina |
| 09:03.06 | judd | Package: remmina on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.0-4+deb7u1; jessie: 1.1.1-2; stretch-backports: 1.2.30.1+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.2.30.1+dfsg-1; sid: 1.2.30.1+dfsg-1 |
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| 09:03.30 | babilen | Now we only need dionysus69's output |
| 09:03.44 | jelly | !coffee jelly |
| 09:03.44 | dpkg | decants a fine broth of fair trade Jamaican Blue Mountain for jelly, courtesy of jelly |
| 09:03.49 | dionysus69 | what output specifically :S |
| 09:03.56 | jelly | !bat |
| 09:03.57 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 09:04.01 | jelly | that ^ output |
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| 09:04.12 | jelly | specifically, all of it |
| 09:04.16 | babilen | ;) |
| 09:04.30 | dionysus69 | ok let me try :D sounds like a lot of work :D |
| 09:05.27 | dionysus69 | that's one http://paste.debian.net/1028744/ |
| 09:05.43 | dionysus69 | i mean, second |
| 09:05.47 | babilen | Why not use a single pastebin? |
| 09:06.12 | dionysus69 | first http://paste.debian.net/1028745/ |
| 09:06.30 | dionysus69 | dunno, text would be unreadable :S? |
| 09:08.36 | dionysus69 | and this is policy http://paste.debian.net/1028747/ |
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| 09:08.39 | jelly | dpkg, basic apt troubleshooting =~ s/this information./all the information, preferably as a single pastebin entry./ |
| 09:08.40 | dpkg | jelly: that doesn't contain 'this information.' |
| 09:09.11 | dionysus69 | and just for your info, I don't have frankendebian, just good old sources.list :D |
| 09:10.56 | babilen | dionysus69: There's still information missing -- In addition to the rest of 2. and 3. it would also be good to see the output of "apt update ; apt -f full-upgrade" |
| 09:11.17 | jelly | however, you seem to have a stretch installation. Did you try remmina from stretch-backports? |
| 09:11.47 | dionysus69 | nope I never installed anything manually from backports, just good old apt-get install |
| 09:11.51 | babilen | Looks as if an older version was installed from backports at an earlier point in time |
| 09:12.27 | michael2 | hi all. I have a LUKS mapper mounted into my file tree, I want to unmount the mapper - but umount fails - due to something holding the device open. does any have a recommendation for forcing removal in a way which incurs the least likelyhood of data corruption or loss? |
| 09:12.27 | dionysus69 | don't know how would that happen, I installed remmina by typing apt-get install remmina |
| 09:12.52 | jelly | dionysus69: if you goal is to have a less buggy remmina, install the one from stretch-backports. |
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| 09:13.12 | jelly | instead of attempting to install a .deb from buster or sid. |
| 09:13.45 | babilen | 1.2.0-rcgit.29+dfsg-1~bpo9+1 should be a backport |
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| 09:14.17 | babilen | We could go digging in the apt logs to figure out how exactly dionysus69 installed that in the past, but I'd still be interested in the upgrade run output |
| 09:14.37 | dionysus69 | ok here's the rest of the output http://paste.debian.net/1028748/ |
| 09:14.45 | petn-randall | michael2: `lsof | grep /path/to/mount` would help finding it. |
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| 09:15.24 | dionysus69 | ok I ll just remove remmina fully and then reinstall |
| 09:15.28 | dionysus69 | let's see how it goes |
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| 09:15.53 | babilen | dionysus69: You *have* to install it from stretch-backports as it is not in stretch |
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| 09:16.19 | High_Priest | okay, back, in case anyone has any ideas on my openvpn question, I'll be around... thanks |
| 09:16.22 | dionysus69 | ok how do I manually tell it to use backports? |
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| 09:16.51 | dionysus69 | I use it like twice a year so I don't remember |
| 09:17.52 | babilen | "-t stretch-backports" |
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| 09:19.04 | dionysus69 | ok thanks :) |
| 09:19.05 | michael2 | petn-randall: lsof is not finding the process. do you know if there is a way to just force the unmount in the least destructive way? REISUB , reboot or something like that? |
| 09:20.13 | dionysus69 | ok now upgrade is not misbehaving, thanks peoples of awesomia! |
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| 09:32.13 | petn-randall | michael2: You can always just reboot, and it'll kill whatever process before unmounting it. |
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| 09:35.11 | jelly | michael2: things that do not appear in lsof: loopback mounts. nfs exports. active swap files. |
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| 10:06.40 | michael2 | petn-randall: I guess with a reboot there is not guarantees the process wasn't in the middle of some operation before it was killed. but I assume the advantage is that by sending the process the TERM or INT (hopefully not KILL) signal that process would detach itself from the filesystem in a way that gives the process a chance to detach/close open file descriptors, clean up temp files etc? so its at least |
| 10:06.42 | michael2 | better than physically yanking the removable media from the laptop? |
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| 10:09.01 | michael2 | jelly: thanks. I wasn't running loopback or nfs or swap against the USB |
| 10:11.17 | michael2 | does anyone know if full disk encryption is easy in debian? - e.g. can I just select a FDE checkbox during the partition stage of the installer - or is it quite complicated? |
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| 10:15.52 | hicks | select it during the installer and there's really nothing to it. |
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| 10:18.01 | michael2 | hicks: cool, thats nice to know :) |
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| 10:38.23 | petn-randall | michael2: all remaining processes get a SIGTERM, and then after a fairly long timeout a SIGKILL. This only affects processes that aren't started by a systemd unit. Those can configure their own timeouts. |
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| 10:43.32 | michael2 | and after the TERM (or fallback to KILL if necessary) stage - does the system then sync harddisks then unmount the filesystems? |
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| 10:47.10 | petn-randall | michael2: yes, all of that. |
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| 10:48.16 | petn-randall | michael2: In reverse order though. The filesystem is above the block layer subsystem. |
| 10:49.52 | michael2 | petn-randall: so the unmount (detach the filesystem from the file tree) occurs first - then the sync occurs? |
| 10:53.04 | petn-randall | michael2: yes |
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| 10:57.53 | michael2 | petn-randall: so then in the case of a USB/removable media that can't be unmounted the normal ways. (e.g. process/es still using filesystem ) would it be the best course of action to reboot the system - or at least would a reboot be better than just yanking the device out of the USB? |
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| 11:01.12 | petn-randall | michael2: Maybe? Though I think you're overanalyzing the problem. As long as you're not writing to the USB, yanking it out will likely have no detrimental effect. I just wouldn't make a habit out of it. |
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| 11:05.27 | michael2 | I guess, however I usually use a LUKS mapper into the USB. knowing that if the LUKS header gets corrupted then all data could be lost..? |
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| 11:06.20 | petn-randall | michael2: Sure, that's why you got a backup of that, right? |
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| 11:06.43 | michael2 | of the header? no |
| 11:06.47 | petn-randall | michael2: And if you write to the USB device, you won't be rewriting the LUKS header in the moment you yank it out, right? |
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| 11:08.23 | michael2 | no, its rare for me to be doing LUKS key operations |
| 11:08.51 | michael2 | so its unlikely the LUKS header would be at risk then I guess |
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| 11:09.53 | KjetilK | I'm installing node.js and npm, and I'd like to make it as sane as possible seen from a Debian perspective. Since the most sane option isn't available, I figured I'd try the nodesource repo, but it fails, I suppose since I run apt-cacher-ng |
| 11:09.57 | KjetilK | I get |
| 11:10.03 | KjetilK | Err:4 https://deb.nodesource.com/node_8.x stretch/main Sources |
| 11:10.05 | KjetilK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:10.19 | KjetilK | because the Sources is gzipped on the server |
| 11:11.08 | michael2 | nodesources has a script they want you to run - which adds nodesources as a repo |
| 11:11.53 | KjetilK | michael2: yes, indeed |
| 11:11.56 | michael2 | did you add the nodesources repo that way? |
| 11:11.57 | KjetilK | I've done that |
| 11:12.00 | KjetilK | yup |
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| 11:12.15 | KjetilK | it fails during apt-get update |
| 11:12.36 | KjetilK | People have had the same problem: https://github.com/nodesource/distributions/issues/596 |
| 11:12.50 | michael2 | do you have to have node 8? |
| 11:13.07 | KjetilK | but I don't want their solution (downloading outside of APT) |
| 11:13.35 | KjetilK | At least node 8, but I could do 10... |
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| 11:14.53 | KjetilK | (I think the community should really get together and make it possible for Debian to support it fully, but for now, I take what I can get) |
| 11:15.38 | michael2 | I think the maintainers have doubts on the quality of the upstream for some reason, currently |
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| 11:15.52 | KjetilK | but it seems that right now, apt-cacher-ng seems to be the problem |
| 11:16.11 | KjetilK | yeah, they do, and the community seems to have no interest in distributions |
| 11:16.28 | michael2 | the node community? |
| 11:16.33 | KjetilK | nods |
| 11:17.12 | michael2 | they are too busy getting async await working I guess. lol |
| 11:17.21 | KjetilK | ;-) |
| 11:18.28 | KjetilK | hmmm, if I could get apt-cacher-ng to ignore nodesource... |
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| 11:20.12 | KjetilK | ah, DontCache perhaps... |
| 11:20.13 | siraben | I can't move my mouse while typing, this prevents me from playing games that require, say, WASD keys and mouse movements how do I remedy this? |
| 11:20.20 | siraben | I want to be able to move my mouse while typing |
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| 11:20.29 | siraben | If possible, can I make it optional for certain applications? |
| 11:22.45 | siraben | Anyone able to reproduce this? |
| 11:22.52 | siraben | e.g. try installing minetest |
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| 11:38.06 | vkss | how do i set up the thinkpad t420 fingerprint on linux mint? |
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| 11:42.30 | jolt | vkss: Try another channel than #debian? |
| 11:42.52 | jolt | dpkg: mint |
| 11:42.52 | dpkg | Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at http://forums.linuxmint.com/ or join #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>. |
| 11:46.13 | vkss | my bad guys wrong chat |
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| 12:06.22 | KjetilK | Just telling apt-cacher-ng DontCache: deb.nodesource.com didn't help |
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| 12:25.50 | KjetilK | actually, the problem was HTTPS: https://blog.packagecloud.io/eng/2015/05/05/using-apt-cacher-ng-with-ssl-tls/ |
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| 13:04.26 | WhereIsMySpoon | Is there a way to remove all packages except specific ones and their dependencies and any system/kernel packages that i obviously wouldnt want to touch? |
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| 13:05.08 | jelly | WhereIsMySpoon: try debfoster, but be careful |
| 13:05.16 | WhereIsMySpoon | im only doing it on a docker image |
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| 13:05.23 | WhereIsMySpoon | so dont care if it gets fubar'd |
| 13:05.24 | jelly | apt does not knowwhat you deem obvious |
| 13:05.32 | WhereIsMySpoon | i can always start over :) |
| 13:05.49 | WhereIsMySpoon | ill look at debfoster |
| 13:05.55 | shtrb | WhereIsMySpoon, maybe removing tasks and then apt-get autoremove ? |
| 13:06.02 | WhereIsMySpoon | "removing tasks"? |
| 13:06.06 | jolt | WhereIsMySpoon: dpkg --get-selections / --set-selections is also a possibility |
| 13:06.07 | jelly | it basically asks what you need, and removes everything else |
| 13:06.10 | WhereIsMySpoon | im already doing autoremove |
| 13:06.18 | jolt | but jellys seems more straightforward |
| 13:06.34 | han-solo | i once, did apt-get remove php* , man that was fun :} |
| 13:06.44 | jelly | last time I looked at it debfoster was not well integrated with apt's auto/manual state |
| 13:08.11 | shtrb | WhereIsMySpoon, dpkg --get-selections | grep task # give you tasks that pulled stuff over |
| 13:08.27 | WhereIsMySpoon | righto |
| 13:08.30 | WhereIsMySpoon | ill keep that all in mind |
| 13:08.32 | WhereIsMySpoon | thank you all |
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| 13:12.52 | WhereIsMySpoon | well that got rid of a whole 6mb of stuff |
| 13:12.54 | WhereIsMySpoon | lol |
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| 13:13.53 | WhereIsMySpoon | debfoster that is |
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| 13:19.42 | t3st3r | WhereIsMySpoon> also deborphan and cruft. Later could generate some cruft though :D but good finding "lost" files which aren't tracled down by package system. |
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| 13:36.09 | drbw | hi! I just noticed that a packet I installed with dpkg requires version 1.7.4 of cryptsetup and stable only provides 1.7.3-4. however, the installation worked well enough and apt doesn't complain about anything afterwards. why is this? shouldn't that result in a dependency error? |
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| 13:36.36 | drbw | *package, not packet... |
| 13:36.53 | limbo_ | requires that specific version, or any version? |
| 13:37.28 | drbw | apt depends says "Depends: cryptsetup (>= 1.7.4)" |
| 13:38.00 | limbo_ | somiaj: I tried using ps to do it, but I realized that would break sometimes. Any idea how to do the same thing, but with a file? |
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| 13:38.46 | limbo_ | drbw: but what version of cryptsetup is installed? Also, what package is this? |
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| 13:40.14 | drbw | result of apt-cache policy cryptsetup: *** 2:1.7.3-4 500 |
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| 13:40.49 | jelly | how do I send Ctrl-Alt-F2 over xfreerdp ? |
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| 13:40.58 | drbw | and it's kerio connect, a mail server (third party package without a repo, hence using dpkg) |
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| 13:41.29 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.4 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 13:46.00 | shtrb | jelly, do you wish to change a vt or really send that compbination ? |
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| 13:46.07 | shtrb | chvt could change a vt for you |
| 13:49.18 | shtrb | jelly, ? |
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| 14:16.33 | dolphin__ | hello, please help me. I have installed KDE Connect on Xfce. It is not working. |
| 14:17.02 | dolphin__ | I am not able to browse the files on my android phone. |
| 14:17.06 | shtrb | please express what it mean not working |
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| 14:17.16 | shtrb | dolphin__, unblock the screen |
| 14:17.40 | dolphin__ | the screen is unlocked. |
| 14:18.14 | dolphin__ | getting this error message. "A folder named /home/sh/.cache/kioexec/krun/11235_0/ already exists." |
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| 14:19.01 | dolphin__ | when I click on Browse this Device option on KDE Connect on my laptop. |
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| 14:22.00 | dolphin__ | what could be the reason? |
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| 14:26.23 | edi | hey I have a question about debian on a system with hw raid |
| 14:26.44 | edi | so i see the raid (5) configured ( some hpe rocketraid bios tool thing ) |
| 14:26.51 | edi | and when I boot into debian |
| 14:27.09 | edi | i see the separate disks list ( /dev/sdd and so on ) |
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| 14:27.21 | edi | list/listed |
| 14:27.33 | siraben | What do people set their keybinding for screenshots to so that it doesn't conflict with anything else? |
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| 14:27.45 | siraben | I'm on a laptop, so I don't have Print Screen |
| 14:27.53 | shtrb | dolphin__, you might like to ask that also at #kde or the phabricator channel for connect |
| 14:28.06 | edi | I was thinking that I would see the raid as 1 virtual disk or smth |
| 14:28.16 | shtrb | siraben, the key is still there (under function + something) |
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| 14:28.35 | edi | but maybe i get the concept a bit wrong , it's the first time I use raid |
| 14:28.39 | siraben | shtrb: I have F1 to F12 |
| 14:28.41 | dolphin__ | ok |
| 14:29.01 | shtrb | siraben, what laptop brand ? |
| 14:29.06 | siraben | MacBook Pro |
| 14:29.07 | shtrb | brand + model |
| 14:29.09 | siraben | 2012 |
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| 14:30.04 | shtrb | shift fn F11 |
| 14:30.26 | shtrb | that can also be configured by your DE |
| 14:30.56 | RedSoxFan07 | I'm kinda new to GPUs on Linux. I have a GT 1030 that I'd like to get working. I couldn't get it working on Debian Testing because the driver wasn't working. I switched back to Debian Stable because the proprietary Nvidia driver seems to work, from what I've read. I've had issues with Nouveau, which I've been told is because Nouveau doesn't work with Pascal cards. What should I do? Install the GPU and then the drivers or the drivers and then GPU? |
| 14:31.32 | shtrb | siraben, did it work ? |
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| 14:32.11 | siraben | shtrb: What do I expect? |
| 14:32.17 | greycat | RedSoxFan07: you said it "seems to work", so whatever you've done, stop. |
| 14:32.18 | siraben | Seems to maximize |
| 14:33.28 | siraben | shtrb: It doesn't do anything. |
| 14:33.48 | siraben | It would be nice to see the "unused" keybindings in GNOME, somehow |
| 14:33.58 | siraben | It's actually pretty hard to come up with new ones |
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| 14:38.39 | dolphin__ | btw, which DE is most suitable for those coming from Windows? |
| 14:39.31 | han-solo | None :} |
| 14:39.43 | shtrb | plasma-desktop |
| 14:39.43 | t3st3r | well, I use XFCE which looks more or less similar to classic windows taskbar. |
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| 14:40.06 | t3st3r | though one have to configure that a bit, default is a bit different. |
| 14:40.36 | greycat | "anything except GNOME" |
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| 14:41.17 | t3st3r | I'm not a big fan of KDE either. Though it surely can give ppl feeling they are using Windows... being bloated, heavy and slow :D |
| 14:41.23 | Haohmaru | i use lxde with some customizations.. (i it doesn't look like modern windows, more like fancier win98) |
| 14:41.42 | dolphin__ | I mean, which is super easy to get accustomed to? for windows users. Something that is more OOTB. |
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| 14:41.50 | farruinn | lxde is easy |
| 14:42.46 | Haohmaru | sorta looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/7P0y9uG.png |
| 14:42.55 | t3st3r | dolphin__> well someone have to set up the box for clueless users anyway? So shuffling couple of panels isnt a big deal? |
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| 14:43.53 | dolphin__ | but, an end user doesn't want to be bothered much with learning the OS. He would want an OS that he can get his work done with. |
| 14:44.40 | jelly | then the end user can continue using windows |
| 14:44.44 | Haohmaru | dolphin__ sadly, it's not so easy.. sure you can go with it like that, but sooner or later something will pop up that requires some *thinking* |
| 14:44.49 | Haohmaru | or a decision |
| 14:45.13 | dolphin__ | ok. Which distro has the lowest learning curve? |
| 14:45.21 | greycat | Mac OS |
| 14:45.26 | Haohmaru | >:) |
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| 14:45.46 | jelly | buttons on the left side?!? *ragequit* |
| 14:45.48 | Haohmaru | greycat does it have a win98 theme? ;P~ |
| 14:45.49 | siraben | dolphin__: I'd recommend GNOME, it's really easy for new users |
| 14:46.00 | siraben | Plus if you download the Dash to Panel extension |
| 14:46.06 | siraben | It looks similar to windows |
| 14:46.17 | siraben | Because of the taskbar at the bottom |
| 14:46.28 | shtrb | since when is Windows the thing people feel comfertable with ? |
| 14:46.34 | jelly | since 1995 |
| 14:46.41 | siraben | But Unix is older |
| 14:46.53 | jelly | noone was ever comfortable with unix |
| 14:46.55 | Haohmaru | yeah.. win98 UI was pretty okay |
| 14:46.59 | shtrb | Well, good luck trying to use your old tricks on 10 |
| 14:47.24 | siraben | This is why if you just learn to use Emacs, it doesn't matter what fancy desktop environment or OS you are running, things are pretty much the same |
| 14:47.41 | t3st3r | <greycat> Mac OS <- then I guess its safe to stick to windows, Mac isn't fundamentally better in terms of vendor lock. |
| 14:47.45 | Haohmaru | siraben isn't that a text editor? |
| 14:47.51 | dolphin__ | but, is KDE Plasma not easier as compared to Gnome? |
| 14:47.54 | jelly | Haohmaru: it's an OS |
| 14:48.01 | siraben | Haohmaru: It's an OS lacking a decent text editor ;) |
| 14:48.01 | Haohmaru | oh sh** |
| 14:48.07 | shtrb | lol |
| 14:48.08 | dolphin__ | and between those two which is more resource hungry? |
| 14:48.09 | jelly | hides |
| 14:48.26 | siraben | dolphin__: What is your use case? |
| 14:48.26 | dolphin__ | what about Mate? |
| 14:48.27 | jelly | dolphin__: they're equally hungry hippos |
| 14:48.38 | siraben | If you want to go minimal, don't use a DE |
| 14:48.44 | siraben | Go Linux term |
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| 14:48.50 | t3st3r | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:49.02 | dolphin__ | an end user with zero knowledge of linux. Need a distro for home and office use. |
| 14:49.11 | Haohmaru | dolphin__ how about you try them out? you can install a bunch of DEs onto the same debian and select which one you want to run from the login manager |
| 14:49.13 | siraben | dolphin__: Debian is a good choice... |
| 14:49.33 | Haohmaru | ..that's what i did |
| 14:49.34 | siraben | You can use Linux without knowing it, e.g. Firefox, Libreoffice, Thunderbird |
| 14:49.37 | jelly | dolphin__: I'd give the user something reasonably simple like xfce and teach them to do common stuff for a couple weeks |
| 14:49.48 | t3st3r | I've set up XFCE for person like that. They were using WinXP and 7 beforehand. I've just moved panel to bottom and put system tray here. Worked like a charm. |
| 14:50.12 | dolphin__ | ok. How about Mint Cinnamon or Xfce? |
| 14:50.14 | siraben | For me it was using Dash to Panel + GNOME, for some reason having a taskbar makes Windows users calm down |
| 14:50.23 | shtrb | https://xkcd.com/1172/ |
| 14:50.31 | Haohmaru | yeah, similarly, i installed debian+lxde for a new collegue here, he said he hasn't used/seen linux |
| 14:50.31 | jelly | dolphin__: try both and choose |
| 14:50.41 | Haohmaru | so far he is doing well |
| 14:50.55 | siraben | dolphin__: How technically minded are they? |
| 14:51.02 | shtrb | jelly, chvt did the job for you ? |
| 14:51.05 | siraben | Are they willing to brace a little learning? |
| 14:51.14 | dolphin__ | siraben, no technical knowledge. |
| 14:51.16 | dolphin__ | at all. |
| 14:51.17 | t3st3r | dolphin__> well, I haven't used cinnamon, feel free to give a try yourself. |
| 14:51.24 | siraben | dolphin__: How old? |
| 14:51.28 | shtrb | any DE would good (if they are just learning ) |
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| 14:51.48 | siraben | It all depends on motivation, if they are willing to do things a little differently |
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| 14:51.59 | dolphin__ | siraben, some are 15 to 20. Others are 25 to 30. |
| 14:52.02 | t3st3r | dolphin__> I've used XFCE for "non-techie" users who used Windows :). As I've said it works. And there're relatively few points they can break :D |
| 14:52.38 | dolphin__ | which DEs are more stable? |
| 14:52.39 | cheapie | I've always used KDE for that, or LXDE if I need something lightweight. XFCE looks good to me for ex-Mac users. |
| 14:52.42 | siraben | dolphin__: I suspect the OS won't matter too much, they need a alternative to Microsoft Word (Libreoffice) and a Web Browser (Chromium or Firefox) |
| 14:52.54 | cheapie | But hey, if it works, it works :P |
| 14:52.55 | siraben | s/OS/DE |
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| 14:53.26 | t3st3r | Gnome on one hand is dumbed down to degree one would struggle to return computer behavior users got used to. Gnome knows fucking better how to shut your laptop down. If that's not what you want... oh...! |
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| 14:53.35 | Haohmaru | dolphin__ don't ask us - install the DEs and try them |
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| 14:53.36 | cheapie | personally prefers to build her own "DE" from components, or use MATE if pre-made DEs are the only option |
| 14:53.44 | Haohmaru | you can do it from Synaptic |
| 14:53.45 | t3st3r | KDE allows to configure hell a lot of things. But it tends to have dozens of bugs. |
| 14:53.51 | siraben | However, I did remember using a Mac computer for the first time when I was used to XP, it was very disorienting |
| 14:54.03 | siraben | I activated exposé and couldn't get out |
| 14:54.41 | Haohmaru | i recommend LXDE with some manual tweaking (mostly the Look And Feel, and the filemanager (to show networks, and such) |
| 14:54.52 | Haohmaru | maybe also the icon theme |
| 14:55.26 | t3st3r | LXDE could also be an option for weak computers, btw. Though my personal experience is that it is PITA to configure it and it got rough edges. |
| 14:55.40 | siraben | Is GNOME not out of the box enough? |
| 14:56.04 | greycat | Is that "works out of the box" or "makes you think outside the box"? |
| 14:56.10 | siraben | Works out of the box |
| 14:56.32 | siraben | I've never seen anyone else use it for the first time, so I don't know. |
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| 14:56.56 | jelly | gnome is too different from either fvwm 1.24r or windows 2000 to make me angry and unwilling to switch to its ways |
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| 14:57.14 | dolphin__ | besides Debian which other distro would you recommend for newbies, linux beginners and casual end users, for office use? |
| 14:57.22 | t3st3r | if one really wants out of the box they could also look on ubuntu :) which is basically "glamour/polished version of Debian". |
| 14:57.36 | siraben | Ubuntu = Debian + non-free bloatware |
| 14:57.41 | jelly | dolphin__: ask that in ##linux maybe |
| 14:57.56 | greycat | My experiences with GNOME and with trying to help people using GNOME are "wtf is happening, aaahhhh!" and "nothing works, ever, and you cannot MAKE it work, because GNOME went out of its way to make everything you know stop working" |
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| 14:58.10 | t3st3r | siraben> you've forgot "+ sane polished user-friendly good looking defaults" :P. |
| 14:58.15 | jelly | because honestly what answer do you expect from #debian other than "use Debian" |
| 14:58.19 | siraben | greycat: Interesting. |
| 14:58.31 | dolphin__ | ok |
| 14:58.34 | siraben | dolphin__: Why not just teach them to install gentoo |
| 14:58.35 | t3st3r | siraben> sure you can get it like this in Debian. But it wouldn't happen out of the box... |
| 14:58.56 | dolphin__ | I myself am a linux noob. |
| 14:59.06 | jelly | I honestly do not know why Debian keeps Gnome as default DE |
| 14:59.11 | greycat | Ultimately you'll have to try them and make your own choice. |
| 14:59.15 | siraben | jelly: Why wouldn't it? |
| 14:59.23 | siraben | You could always switch to a different one. |
| 14:59.28 | jelly | see above |
| 14:59.40 | t3st3r | <jelly> I honestly do not know why Debian keeps Gnome as default DE <- they had idea switching to XFCE and I'm kinda sad it havent happened. |
| 15:00.08 | siraben | Who knew using a GNU/Linux distro could be so hard... |
| 15:00.12 | t3st3r | Somehow Gnome looks like if it was coded by aliens for aliens these days. And aliens only use tablets or so. |
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| 15:00.20 | Haohmaru | yeah, xfce would be a better "default" choice than this gnome crap |
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| 15:00.39 | siraben | I just realized I was using a GTK+ and Icon theme on GNOME |
| 15:00.54 | dolphin__ | how about Mate? |
| 15:00.59 | Haohmaru | i am probably using some icons from gnome tho |
| 15:01.04 | dolphin__ | who are the target users of Mate? |
| 15:01.10 | siraben | dolphin__: Try Trisquel? |
| 15:01.11 | greycat | I hear reasonably good things from Mate users. I've never used it myself. |
| 15:01.12 | siraben | It uses MATE |
| 15:01.20 | Haohmaru | dolphin__ for the 3rd time - why don't you just try them out and see for yourself |
| 15:02.03 | t3st3r | dolphin__> well, if you're a noob: give things a try. And trust your eyes and experience :D |
| 15:02.31 | dolphin__ | ok, I don't know about the technical side of DEs. Which DEs are least buggy and are more stable and well tested? |
| 15:02.39 | siraben | You need to test them out... |
| 15:02.40 | t3st3r | the only catch is that installing like 5 DEs at once is technically possible but could give bugs. So its better to give a try to clean freshly installed DEs. |
| 15:02.41 | greycat | All the ones in stable are well tested. |
| 15:03.12 | dolphin__ | the problem is installing multiple DEs will mess the things up. |
| 15:03.25 | dolphin__ | or might mess the things up. |
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| 15:04.00 | t3st3r | <dolphin__> the problem is installing multiple DEs will mess the things up. <- sure, so I wouldnt recommend it like that unless you're familiar with some technical stuff. |
| 15:04.00 | Haohmaru | well, i did exactly that at home |
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| 15:04.19 | Haohmaru | installed kde, gnome, lxde, xfce, cinamon, mate, lxqt.. |
| 15:04.31 | siraben | I recommend the Emacs Window Manager (exwm) |
| 15:04.44 | siraben | Or i3 |
| 15:04.45 | Haohmaru | i can only tollerate xfce and lxde.. but this is a personal taste.. mine |
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| 15:04.57 | Haohmaru | siraben u h4x0r |
| 15:05.04 | t3st3r | Which DEs are least buggy and are more stable and well tested? <- sounds like good explanation why I've gone XFCE :D |
| 15:05.14 | greycat | Installing multiple DEs does not mess things up. |
| 15:05.23 | siraben | dolphin__: There's a distribution with a wide variety of DEs, search Manjaro |
| 15:05.28 | Haohmaru | greycat yeah, i don't remember having messed up things |
| 15:05.37 | Haohmaru | i just had a pile of icons to choose from ;P~ |
| 15:05.42 | t3st3r | basically it just does what taskbar/tray/desktop is meant to and does not bothers otherwise :)) |
| 15:05.43 | siraben | There's a MATE edition, a GNOME, LXDE, XFCE, i3 etc. |
| 15:06.08 | siraben | dolphin__: Each one is its own .iso file so there's no confusing DEs |
| 15:06.54 | greycat | "Editions" are for Ubuntu which can't get things right. |
| 15:07.03 | Haohmaru | this will take longer than installing a bunch of DEs onto the same system |
| 15:07.08 | greycat | Debian lets you install zero or more WMs and DEs and choose which one you want in multiple ways. |
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| 15:07.14 | dolphin__ | btw, which one is more suitable for an end user for home and office use? a rolling release distro or a fixed release one? |
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| 15:07.24 | greycat | dolphin__: are you FUCKING KIDDING |
| 15:07.37 | Haohmaru | dolphin__ are you reading what folks are talking to you? |
| 15:08.44 | Haohmaru | do you have a debian yet? |
| 15:08.49 | t3st3r | <greycat> Installing multiple DEs does not mess things up. <- its not to be taken as granted. It may work. Or it could fail some arcane ways. |
| 15:08.50 | Haohmaru | installed and running..? |
| 15:09.01 | dolphin__ | yes. I just downloaded Debian xfce. |
| 15:09.05 | greycat | t3st3r: No, it is tested and is known to work just fine. |
| 15:09.06 | Haohmaru | good |
| 15:09.29 | t3st3r | <greycat> "Editions" are for Ubuntu which can't get things right. <- on other hand each edition gives one sane, clean and well thought defaults for DE. Without potential bugs of mixed DE environments. |
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| 15:10.01 | t3st3r | greycat> you should be kidding. I've installed >=1 DE in Debian and it proven to be mixed bag experience. |
| 15:10.01 | dolphin__ | Ubuntu can't get things right? |
| 15:10.13 | dolphin__ | then why Ubuntu and Mint are so popular? |
| 15:10.13 | pingfloyd | I've had it to where my fonts got messed up in xfce after installing lxqt |
| 15:10.28 | greycat | dolphin__: same reason Microsoft Windows is so popular. |
| 15:10.36 | greycat | Marketing. |
| 15:10.44 | t3st3r | Sometimes it works. Sometimes it backfires or exposes unexpected behavior or something. At which point things could get rather complicated for non-techies. |
| 15:10.54 | dolphin__ | ok. You mean that they are inferior to Debian in quality? |
| 15:11.32 | t3st3r | dolphin__> actually I would admit it takes plenty of efforts to make Debian looking equally good compared to default Ubuntu installs. |
| 15:11.34 | dolphin__ | in technical knowledge about Linux, I am just a beginner. |
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| 15:11.50 | Haohmaru | dolphin__ some folks think it's "normal" for their system to "become slow" after a month and to reinstall/reformat it every other month |
| 15:12.04 | pingfloyd | technical knowledge is beside the point. It's a pita either way. |
| 15:12.35 | t3st3r | dolphin__> speaking for myself I've started from ubuntu, learned its inner working, got fed up with marketing BS and so now... I can afford Debian :D |
| 15:12.54 | dolphin__ | ok. But what about Mint? |
| 15:13.03 | dolphin__ | some say Mint is Ubuntu done right. |
| 15:13.04 | t3st3r | ...and able to configure it reasonably. Looking not much worse than Ubuntu, etc. But it takes efforts and isn't "out of the box". |
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| 15:14.14 | t3st3r | Mint is ubuntu with different defaults. Its creators are lame enough not to run own servers for repos, and Ubuntu repos do not take them to account. So good luck to upgrade Mint... |
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| 15:14.53 | dolphin__ | ok. What about other distros like OpenSuse? |
| 15:15.40 | t3st3r | I guess you can give 'em a try if you want. They aren't Debian derivatives ... (and I like Debian techs/approach overall :P) |
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| 15:16.19 | siraben | dolphin__: How long have you used a Linux distribution, and which one? |
| 15:16.36 | dolphin__ | for about two months. |
| 15:17.00 | dolphin__ | I am using a Debian based distro. MX Linux. |
| 15:17.13 | t3st3r | dolphin__> you have to understand your preferences could differ from other ppl preferences so the best thing is to try yourself and see what you like best. |
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| 15:17.50 | dolphin__ | I am not able to get KDE Connect work on this MX 17. |
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| 15:18.54 | t3st3r | I've got to love Debian software/licensing policies and package management, not to mention plenty of programs in repos :) Derivatives share this advantage most of time, at least partially. |
| 15:19.17 | dolphin__ | ok |
| 15:19.33 | t3st3r | but maybe you would value something else, who knows :P |
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| 15:20.22 | dolphin__ | just want a distro that I can be instantly productive with. |
| 15:20.45 | petn-randall | dolphin__: It depends on your definition of "productive", then. |
| 15:21.08 | t3st3r | in that case I can imagine ubuntus (trying kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu, etc out of CDs does the trick) |
| 15:21.36 | dolphin__ | a distro that is stable, secure and yet doesn't have a steep learning curve. |
| 15:21.56 | t3st3r | Just plain debian takes more efforts to get it running. Though we all know free cheese only happens in mouse trap... :P |
| 15:22.30 | petn-randall | dolphin__: Do you care about new software? |
| 15:22.52 | dolphin__ | yes |
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| 15:23.11 | t3st3r | so to my taste Ubuntus got way too much inclined on marketing BS and actions hostile to privacy, etc - that's what prompted me to move my computers to just Debian in 1st place :D |
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| 15:25.52 | dolphin__ | have you tried MX Linux? |
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| 15:27.36 | jelly | I don't think ANY of the micro distros with a single developer or six are sustainable or capable of tracking even security issues |
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| 15:28.11 | petn-randall | dolphin__: New software, or stable/well-tested. You get to pick one. |
| 15:28.15 | t3st3r | no, I'm not, and at this point I do not need it... I can have my way and Debian at this point. And since Debian is the underlying "core" of all derivatives... get the idea :D |
| 15:28.42 | petn-randall | dolphin__: Of course there a whole spectrum between it, but the newer the software is, the less time to find/fix bugs -> less stable. |
| 15:28.48 | petn-randall | *there's |
| 15:28.56 | t3st3r | <petn-randall> dolphin__: New software, or stable/well-tested. You get to pick one. <- its the matter of taste. Some ppl prefer fresh bugs. Some ppl prefer old bugs. |
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| 15:30.00 | jelly | oh you can have new and tested and supported, buy a RHEL 7.5 license |
| 15:30.01 | dgp | t3st3r: testing is going to be as good and probably better than any random debian + random new packages distro |
| 15:30.31 | t3st3r | dgp I do use testing and have to disagree with that! |
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| 15:31.06 | dgp | why? it's debian based and has new-ish versions of most things |
| 15:31.06 | jelly | testing usability depends on the time in the release cycle |
| 15:31.15 | t3st3r | say testing borkzored qemu... they are reshaping its on the go. While they seems to move in right direction, it fucked me up pretty badly. |
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| 15:31.59 | t3st3r | and one really have to pay attention on what package manager plans to do and whether they are fine with these changes or not. This takes degree of understangig of inner working. |
| 15:32.02 | ksqsf | I don't understand... I thought the "reshaping" thing should be happening in experimental |
| 15:32.22 | dgp | ksqsf: yes, does sound weird that something like that would make it into testing |
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| 15:32.52 | dgp | t3st3r: well I guess YMMV but I've been using the same unstable install for 8 years. |
| 15:32.58 | t3st3r | ksqsf> hmm testing grossly fiddled with UI part of qemu. At which points half of my commandlines used to start VMs stopped working... |
| 15:33.07 | dgp | Only breakage really has been nvidia drivers |
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| 15:33.34 | dgp | t3st3r: so qemu changed something upstream? |
| 15:33.42 | jelly | dgp: lucky bastard |
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| 15:33.47 | t3st3r | ksqsf> say Ubuntu would not dare to change packages like THAT between releases. Testing could afford that. And it breaks the things. |
| 15:34.19 | t3st3r | <dgp> t3st3r: so qemu changed something upstream? <- not sure, it seems its rather maintainers got some different ideas on how to package that or so. |
| 15:34.55 | jelly | I've had at least one horrible glibc and one perl breakage using testing 2005-2013, and half a dozen unbootables |
| 15:35.06 | dgp | You can't really expect to have new stuff without things changing ;) |
| 15:35.14 | t3st3r | actually now I even do somewhat like change in packaging idea... but it still gives me a pain since there is no way to use SDL for grapgics and GTK+ front end is shit. |
| 15:35.57 | dgp | jelly: I've had issue with glibc on VPS with ancient kernels that the debian glibc no longer supported. But desktop stuff has been pretty good. :D |
| 15:36.02 | t3st3r | though idea to split package into "core" that does not pulls whole GTK+ and UI plugin package looks very great to my taste. |
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| 15:36.22 | Dal1980 | Hi guys. Wondering if I should be able to type in the console when I start `startx`? This debian 9.4 install is a one without a desktop environment as I don't need it but I installed Xorg package suite. |
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| 15:36.42 | t3st3r | that what makes me curious whether its possible to bolt SDL backend same way, so I can finally have sane user experience :D |
| 15:36.56 | jelly | dgp: I think users of testing or sid that say nothing broke have a very selective memory |
| 15:37.06 | greycat | Dal1980: If you installed "xorg", that's great but not enough. You will also want a window manager, and probably a terminal emulator. |
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| 15:37.07 | jelly | s/broke/breaks/ |
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| 15:37.53 | jelly | greycat: xorg Depends xterm | x-terminal-emulator, so they get (at least) one |
| 15:37.56 | dgp | jelly: that's probably true :) |
| 15:37.57 | greycat | ok |
| 15:38.01 | t3st3r | Dal1980> you do not need X to do anything with console... you can use just framebuffer console or something. |
| 15:38.39 | jelly | caveat: framebuffer console is shitty and slow, and running a full screen xterm in X with nothing else is a LOT most usable |
| 15:38.40 | t3st3r | but it could be rather extreme and only ok for some few special uses |
| 15:38.44 | jelly | s/most/more/ |
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| 15:38.53 | greycat | If you run startx with no WM installed, your X session will be an xterm window, in the upper left corner of the screen, with no WM widgets on it at all. You'll have to move the mouse into the xterm window to get focus to be able to type into it. |
| 15:39.17 | greycat | Exiting from the shell will close the xterm which will terminate the X session. |
| 15:39.29 | greycat | So, most people will want a WM. |
| 15:39.30 | t3st3r | jelly> well, I meant the thing running on top of KMS/DRM and graphic terminals rendering full blown TTF/OTF/etc vector fonts aren't rockets either... |
| 15:39.51 | jelly | t3st3r: they are still a lot better than fb console |
| 15:40.24 | jelly | like 1-2 orders of magnitude |
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| 15:40.39 | t3st3r | hmm maybe if that's totally unaccelerated VGA or VESA... if native GPU driver kicks in it not seems to be very slow. |
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| 15:41.03 | jelly | the only console that does not slow everything down when scrolling is text mode |
| 15:41.41 | t3st3r | its fast but it looks like crap on my LCD and fits way too few data... |
| 15:42.04 | jelly | and that is why you use X. Or Wayland, w/e. |
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| 15:43.08 | t3st3r | Well, Wayland got reasons to be faster but only when apps do not use Xwayland and its still half way there. |
| 15:44.43 | dolphin__ | so, distros like Manjaro and Arch are not recommended for home and office use? |
| 15:44.44 | jelly | I've had servers become unusable because something made kernel spew log lines to fb console. |
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| 15:45.15 | greycat | dolphin__: This is #debian. We will tell you to use Debian. |
| 15:45.18 | t3st3r | dolphin__> Arch is used by hardcore ppl who set their minds to fiddle with system a lot and do some experiments. |
| 15:45.31 | jelly | t3st3r: you could nest ten Xs and Waylands and not make it be that slow. |
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| 15:45.51 | dgp | "hardcore ppl" heh |
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| 15:46.13 | jelly | Arch has beautiful docs, I'll give them that |
| 15:46.16 | t3st3r | jelly> Even single X could suck pretty much. Nesting em wouldnt improve things for sure. Neither extra layer of abstraction would. |
| 15:46.40 | t3st3r | ahh yea, I read Arch wiki from time to time... sorry Debian :0 |
| 15:46.55 | greycat | The arch wiki is excellent. |
| 15:47.18 | t3st3r | but its only because same thing works in Debian and I'm able to understand if things aren't like that :D |
| 15:47.30 | greycat | *sometimes* works in Debian |
| 15:47.48 | greycat | But you're experienced enough to figure out when something's not working, and stop doing it. |
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| 15:48.10 | t3st3r | I would call it "most of time" for me. But one have to be careful :) |
| 15:48.44 | jelly | I would call it "know which parts apply to upstream components and which are distro-specific" |
| 15:48.56 | dolphin__ | has anybody here heard of Zorin OS? |
| 15:49.04 | jelly | !zorin |
| 15:49.05 | dpkg | Zorin OS is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu>. It is not supported in #debian. http://www.zorin-os.com/ #zorinos on irc.freenode.net. See also <based on debian>. |
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| 15:49.30 | jelly | apaprently someone's heard of it enough to make a writeup |
| 15:50.35 | jelly | dolphin__: I'd advise against using any of the tiny distros, pick something with lots of developers and a large userbase and community, so you're able to get help when you get stuck |
| 15:50.59 | dolphin__ | jelly, for example? |
| 15:51.10 | jelly | debian |
| 15:51.19 | greycat | dolphin__: This is #debian. We will tell you to use Debian. |
| 15:51.25 | dolphin__ | ok |
| 15:51.31 | greycat | If you want an unbiased comparison of distros, try ##linux. |
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| 15:51.54 | dolphin__ | ok |
| 15:52.03 | jelly | Also we will repeatedly tell you we would tell you to use debian, apparently |
| 15:52.29 | ksqsf | I just wish the backporters could work harder... joking apart, even RHEL has up-to-date GNOME |
| 15:52.30 | jelly | dolphin__: arch, fedora, ubuntu (yes) are also large enough |
| 15:52.30 | greycat | At least 3 times! |
| 15:53.05 | dolphin__ | ok |
| 15:53.13 | greycat | ksqsf: wait, it gets *worse*? |
| 15:53.15 | jelly | ksqsf: actually, RHEL has latest Gnome, because they employ half of Gnome devs and worked toward that goal. |
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| 15:53.36 | t3st3r | <jelly> I would call it "know which parts apply to upstream components and which are distro-specific" <- I would call it "use your head, Luke" :D |
| 15:54.02 | t3st3r | if something obviously does not matches, there is good chance it not going to work :) |
| 15:54.05 | jelly | t3st3r: people asking "which distro for a newbie" do not have that head yet. |
| 15:54.16 | greycat | wonders what new "features" an "up to date" GNOME has that stretch's GNOME does not. Maybe it won't let you use the keyboard at all. |
| 15:54.47 | dgp | greycat: it's completely integrated into pid 1 now |
| 15:54.50 | t3st3r | <jelly> t3st3r: people asking "which distro for a newbie" do not have that head yet. <- they do not have experience, but experience got nothing to do with head... |
| 15:54.50 | jelly | suggests greycat to install CentOS 7.5.1804 or RHEL 7.5 and see |
| 15:55.01 | ksqsf | gnome-shell is not very different, but gnome apps have got more features |
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| 15:55.30 | ksqsf | and even non-gnome apps, like gimp, are usually not backported |
| 15:55.49 | t3st3r | <ksqsf> I just wish the backporters could work harder... joking apart, even RHEL has up-to-date GNOME <- RH is mostly origin of Gnome. What would you expect? |
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| 15:56.29 | greycat | t3st3r: you could save a lot of time and grief by simply typing "ksqsf: RH is mostly origin..." |
| 15:56.48 | greycat | you don't need to quote a comment that was just made 10 seconds ago |
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| 15:57.37 | t3st3r | greycat> it wouldn't be truth though. |
| 15:57.48 | dolphin__ | ok. I have Debian Xfce now. Let me give it a try. |
| 15:58.05 | t3st3r | RH does plenty of work. But at most like 20% of kernel coding. So calling 'em origin of kernel would me a misnomer. |
| 15:58.10 | Dal1980 | greycat> Dal1980: If you installed "xorg", that's great but not enough. You will also want a window manager, and probably a terminal emulator. <- thanks |
| 15:58.15 | Dal1980 | t3st3r> Dal1980> you do not need X to do anything with console... you can use just framebuffer console or something. <- thanks |
| 15:58.35 | t3st3r | and to put it directly RH only cares about few selected use cases. Everyone else is totally out of luck. |
| 15:58.59 | Dal1980 | I thought that might have been the reason I was getting an issue with something but from your answers it maybe hasn't got anything to do with it |
| 15:59.03 | petn-randall | What is with people and their broken IRC clients? Who's gonna reopen all those closed pointy brackets?? |
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| 15:59.23 | greycat | irssi does the > only thing |
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| 15:59.31 | t3st3r | Dal1980> well, I wouldnt recommend framebuffer setup unless you want to keep resouece use and overall bloat to the minimum (e.g. embedded system) |
| 15:59.34 | greycat | I don't know why two people are quoting IRCers though. |
| 15:59.37 | dgp | t3st3r: RH does a lot of grunt work that others wouldn't. Like them or not they provide some value |
| 16:00.18 | t3st3r | dgp I would somewhat agree.. but their "grunt work" on gnome come as far as turning that crap woefully unusable for me. |
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| 16:00.58 | t3st3r | and when they break GTK theming every release or maybe two I got to wonder why the hell stupid theming things needs THAT MUCH of grunt work and >= 20 versions to get it right... |
| 16:01.22 | dgp | If you have a support contract you can bitch directly to them |
| 16:01.34 | dgp | If you get something for free you can like it or lump it |
| 16:02.02 | t3st3r | dgp> I've meant I do not have to thank RH for each and every shit they throw on my head, be it free or not. Just that. |
| 16:02.53 | t3st3r | and RH could be fairly annoying in grossly disregarding other ppl use cases in favor of theirs, so when project is mostly developed by RH, it generally rings the bell. |
| 16:03.08 | jelly | petn-randall: brackets schmackets. Noone ever writes complete s/// |
| 16:03.16 | t3st3r | because I can count I could be fucked up by RH devs who only pursue they own goals. |
| 16:03.27 | dgp | I'm not sure what use case you thing RH has. Surely their only aim is to make something they can sell to their customers |
| 16:03.42 | dgp | s/you thing/you think/ |
| 16:03.46 | petn-randall | jelly: Named captures? |
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| 16:04.04 | t3st3r | dgp tbh I do not get which use case Gnome 3 targets. It looks like tablet UI but ironically there are no Gmone tablets... :D |
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| 16:04.04 | greycat | watches dgp prove jelly wrong |
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| 16:04.23 | Akuw | what is best, configure my own server or use a cloud, is for a file server |
| 16:04.31 | Akuw | there is a VPS option |
| 16:04.58 | jelly | Akuw: depends on your budget and bandwidth and latency needs? |
| 16:05.18 | greycat | And where the clients are. |
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| 16:05.30 | dgp | And how much you want them being inside your own network |
| 16:05.52 | Akuw | host web side and file server for some users |
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| 16:06.23 | dgp | Akuw: Personally I would look into some sort of ready made service for that. |
| 16:06.42 | Akuw | i thought the same |
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| 16:07.04 | jelly | Akuw: like what's preventing you from using dropbox or onedrive or google drive like most people |
| 16:07.08 | Akuw | i think about security and backup |
| 16:07.30 | Akuw | it is no dropbox is a Virtual Private Server |
| 16:07.36 | Akuw | full root access |
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| 16:08.03 | greycat | Akuw: but they're asking, *why* do you need or want a full VPS for this particular project |
| 16:08.05 | jelly | sure, but what makes you _not_ use dropbox? |
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| 16:08.43 | jelly | figure out your requirements instead of having the solution first then look for a problem to solve :-> |
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| 16:08.59 | Akuw | i know my requeriments |
| 16:09.09 | Akuw | there is a 60GB of files |
| 16:09.13 | Akuw | and growing |
| 16:09.15 | petn-randall | .a.k.a. "Tell us about your problem, not what you think the solution is" |
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| 16:09.43 | jelly | has a 100GB goog quota for $13 or so |
| 16:10.01 | t3st3r | well, cloud provider can yank your access and good luck to, say, get your google account back if its a case. |
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| 16:10.55 | t3st3r | though server can also get shut down by hosting company (but one can set it at new place). |
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| 16:12.09 | t3st3r | either way one have to consider remote resource could go down for many reasons and have some fallback plan if it happens for whatever reason. |
| 16:12.15 | FinalX | jelly: I have unlimited for $10/month .. you should have a look at Google Suite :) |
| 16:12.19 | FinalX | (excl. VAT) |
| 16:12.31 | jelly | FinalX: that's $13/yr |
| 16:12.34 | FinalX | ah |
| 16:12.38 | dgp | Just having to look after it would drive me insane. There are so many places you can stick files for not very much now. You need good reasons not to |
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| 16:13.24 | jelly | it would be nicer if they had a normal protocol exposed like rsync or sftp. |
| 16:13.45 | FinalX | have a look at rclone.org, works fine with Google Drive. has on-the-fly encryption, too |
| 16:13.54 | FinalX | I know it's not rsync/sftp, but still. |
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| 16:14.19 | FinalX | it's meant to replicate rsync functionality for cloud providers |
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| 16:15.13 | t3st3r | <jelly> it would be nicer if they had a normal protocol exposed like rsync or sftp. <- I like rsync, too. Sftp is probably not best things for backups (lacks "delta" mode on its own) |
| 16:17.01 | FinalX | rclone is really nice to use with Drive.. I have about 56TB on there :) it can also do a fuse mount of the remote etc (though not recommended without something like plexdrive for caching.. Google has daily limits for API calls) |
| 16:19.08 | petn-randall | t3st3r: You *really* have to stop quoting people. It's not even 5 lines back. You're assuming we have the memory of a goldfish. |
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| 16:37.16 | jelly | !qotd0 |
| 16:37.17 | dpkg | <mee> toilet is too fancy for me |
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| 16:44.36 | Logg | Can I use a program to duplicate an x window and crop it? |
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| 16:45.38 | somiaj | what do you mean by that? Do you just want a screenshot, or do you want to be able to interact with that other xwindow? |
| 16:46.01 | Logg | The second |
| 16:46.31 | Logg | just being able to duplicate would be acceptable, but "cropping" the working area of it would be better |
| 16:46.34 | greycat | I ... do not understand the goal here. |
| 16:46.52 | Logg | That's what I was afraid of lol. probably too niche of a desire to exist |
| 16:47.05 | greycat | A toplevel window is controlled by a process. Are you talking about forking the process? Having two instances of "xeyes" or whateveR? |
| 16:47.38 | Logg | I have a program, I want to have two windows for the same program, but on different screens. |
| 16:47.46 | somiaj | the only way I could think of such thing is use xnest or xypher and run it in a sandbox xsession inside a window in your main xsession you can resize |
| 16:48.00 | petn-randall | Logg: What's preventing you from just running another instance? |
| 16:48.00 | greycat | Ask the program to launch a second toplevel window, and then move that window yourself. |
| 16:48.12 | petn-randall | Logg: Tell us about your problem, not what you think the solution is. |
| 16:48.29 | somiaj | ahh so you want to have both to interact with, my xnest idea won't work for that. |
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| 16:49.56 | Logg | petn-randall, It's an RDP session to a windows box (don't hate me). I want to stop using proprietary software on my debian install, and confine it to that windows box. The rdp session is at a 4k resolution, so if I could crop it to 1440x900 to fit my other monitor, then i could run programs just in that 1440x900 space and put it on that monitor, but then also use that same RDP session for 4k computing on my main monitor |
| 16:50.10 | Logg | I think you can only establish 1 RDP session at a time, but I'm not sure. |
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| 16:51.03 | Logg | If it's not possible to crop, I could just resize the window off-screen, but that's not as nice. |
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| 16:52.17 | greycat | I'm still baffled. Why not get two monitors that are the same size? Why would you want the same session to appear in two places at all? |
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| 16:53.18 | Logg | 4k monitors are expensive, and these old ones I have still work and give me a larger work area. |
| 16:53.24 | greycat | The only thing I can think of that makes ANY sense is "one of the monitors is actually a projector, and this is for meetings with humans" |
| 16:53.29 | Logg | In that one 1440x900 space, I could run a specific program. |
| 16:54.17 | somiaj | so why not run it there, why do you need two copies? |
| 16:54.37 | greycat | So, *not* the same session. You want an RDP session that spans two different-sized monitors, and the ability to move windows across the whole area within that session. |
| 16:55.00 | greycat | And I'm not seeing the Debian part of the question. |
| 16:55.05 | Logg | I want the program to appear on my top left monitor, not on my bottom right monitor. But I also want to be able to use the full 4k resolution on the bottom right monitor. |
| 16:55.12 | Logg | The Debian part was just "duplicating an X window" |
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| 16:55.15 | jelly | Logg: what makes you not be able to just run the RDP session with 1440x900 geometry? It's a direct command line option for xfreerdp |
| 16:55.39 | greycat | "DUPLICATING A WINDOW" IS UTTER NONSENSE AND IS CONFUSING THE HELL OUT OF ME |
| 16:55.54 | jelly | shouting does not help, tho |
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| 16:56.34 | greycat | Fine, I'll leave it for people who actually understand how RDP works. |
| 16:56.49 | greycat | Sure as hell is not an "X window" question though. |
| 16:56.56 | Logg | I'll try to investigate this more on my own since "duplicating an X window" is causing so much distress |
| 16:57.04 | jelly | Logg: why are you opening a session with (presumably native) 4k resolution at all |
| 16:57.05 | Logg | and RDP is _not_ #debian |
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| 16:57.42 | Logg | jelly, that's the resolution of my bottom right monitor |
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| 16:57.47 | jelly | so what |
| 16:58.02 | Logg | ? |
| 16:58.17 | Logg | why would I not open an RDP session at the native resolution of my monitor |
| 16:58.34 | jelly | because you want a smaller one. |
| 16:58.40 | Logg | I want both at the same time. |
| 16:58.50 | Logg | top left and bottom right monitors |
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| 16:59.12 | greycat | And you want DIFFERENT things on each monitor, right? |
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| 16:59.34 | Logg | It's okay if it's a duplicate in a 1440x900 sized area on the bottom right monitor |
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| 17:00.07 | jelly | Logg: use xrandr to map both monitors to the same origin coordinates |
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| 17:00.23 | Logg | that's an interesting solution, but I have 9 virtual desktops on both monitors |
| 17:00.24 | jelly | one over the other so to speak |
| 17:00.32 | Logg | so I think that would hinder other uses |
| 17:01.46 | jelly | that's a new data point |
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| 17:04.01 | jelly | it seems one can't have two active connections over rdp so anything else is going to be a hack |
| 17:05.09 | jelly | however opengl-based compositors has no problerms showing contents of one window in multiple places on the screen at the same time so it's possible; I just have no idea which tools to use |
| 17:05.17 | jelly | have* no problems |
| 17:05.18 | Logg | thanks for confirming that jelly |
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| 17:06.21 | jelly | if you don't mind having vnc in addition to rdp that'd be an easy solution |
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| 17:07.59 | Logg | any recommendation on a VNC client for debian? |
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| 17:08.58 | jelly | dunno, tigervnc-viewer |
| 17:09.11 | jelly | is, apparently, what I have installed |
| 17:09.25 | jelly | ,v tigervnc-viewer |
| 17:09.25 | Ouroboros | also realvnc, also tightvnc, also ... |
| 17:09.26 | judd | Package: tigervnc-viewer on amd64 -- stretch: 1.7.0+dfsg-7; buster: 1.7.0+dfsg-8; sid: 1.7.0+dfsg-8 |
| 17:09.37 | Logg | I'll look into that. Another solution might be to just use a 3rd computer... |
| 17:09.42 | jelly | well a tiger sounds more real than real |
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| 17:10.10 | Ouroboros | and grabs more tightly than tight? ok, we are done here |
| 17:10.31 | jelly | ,v xtightvncviewer |
| 17:10.33 | judd | Package: xtightvncviewer on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.3.9-6.4; jessie: 1.3.9-6.5; buster: 1:1.3.9-9; sid: 1:1.3.9-9; stretch: 1:1.3.9-9 |
| 17:10.42 | jelly | that... doesn't look very alive |
| 17:11.44 | jelly | and realvnc does not exist (any more) in debian |
| 17:11.57 | Logg | yeah, I've used xtightvncviewer in the past and not been very impressed with it |
| 17:14.30 | Ouroboros | there also those other... things |
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| 17:14.42 | Logg | :eyes: |
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| 17:15.02 | Ouroboros | someone knows what i am talking about |
| 17:15.32 | Logg | are you talking about a kvm switch |
| 17:15.35 | greycat | not me. |
| 17:16.38 | Ouroboros | no, i am talking about alterntive protocols to vnc, there are at least two other ones that people commonly use now, but they are probably non-free |
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| 17:17.27 | somiaj | spice is open as far as I know |
| 17:17.41 | somiaj | I find spice nice for vms, but unsure about remote access |
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| 17:27.04 | Ouroboros | i suppose that i was talking about nx |
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| 17:29.16 | Ouroboros | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_remote_desktop_software |
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| 17:44.00 | megaTherion | Hi, has someone a similar bug with mpv, I want to play an audio cd - this works but it doesnt recognize the track-wise syntax such as cdda://1 - only cdda:// works? |
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| 17:44.41 | greycat | spends some time reading up on "compositors", and wikipedia says they can do window duplication. So, making a window appear in two places at once (one of them being a second monitor) may be possible, but this is done BELOW the X11 level. |
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| 17:48.51 | greycat | Hmm, I see two bugs regarding DVD track indexes in mpv. CD track indexes may be similar? |
| 17:49.05 | greycat | bug #753265 |
| 17:49.06 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/753265 in mpv (open): «mpv: dvd tracks index starts at 0 instead of 1»; severity: normal; opened: 2014-06-29; last modified: 2014-07-01. |
| 17:49.13 | greycat | bug #754512 |
| 17:49.14 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/754512 in mpv (open): «mpv: dvd:// plays second track»; severity: normal; opened: 2014-07-11; last modified: 2014-07-13. |
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| 17:56.48 | jrm | Hi. Has a mirror gone down or moved? `wget https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/android-tools/android-tools.git/plain/debian/fastboot.1?id=706e754` returns a 404. |
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| 17:57.22 | jrm | Errr. if it's a 404, I guess nothing has gone down. |
| 17:57.38 | jrm | ..but the file has moved. |
| 17:57.44 | petn-randall | jrm: Yes, alioth was shut down the other week. It's all moved to the new service, salsa.debian.org. |
| 17:57.58 | jrm | Thanks petn-randall |
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| 17:58.02 | solido | hello! |
| 17:58.06 | petn-randall | jrm: Many packages haven't been updated yet to show to the correcct, new repo. |
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| 17:58.14 | annadane | you can tell when an internet tutorial or reference is old when it includes alioth links :P |
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| 17:58.24 | petn-randall | hehehe :) |
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| 18:01.11 | solido | i have installed smart-notifier to get popup messages from SMART. is there a way to acknowledge an error so that i don't keep getting messages about it? i have seen popup messages about the same offline sectors for months now. |
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| 18:03.29 | petn-randall | solido: Eh, "uncorrectable offline"? Then your disk is hosed and you should replace it ASAP. |
| 18:03.54 | annadane | incidentally, is salsa its own domain entirely or just another git knockoff clone? |
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| 18:04.12 | annadane | i think it's just Based On Git from the looks of it |
| 18:04.16 | solido | petn-randall: it keeps working though... i'd like to use for as long as possible. everything is backed up. |
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| 18:04.53 | Ouroboros | does the installer directly support encrypted /boot on luks these days? |
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| 18:05.22 | solido | Ouroboros: encrypted /boot? what would you boot from? |
| 18:06.37 | petn-randall | solido: Assuming it's that SMART error, it means parts of your filesystem are inaccessible, so no, it doesn't work. |
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| 18:07.54 | jair | hello all I am wondering whhich package should I install in Debian buster > mysql workbench... > http://paste.debian.net/1028812 |
| 18:07.59 | t3st3r | solido> if you have "pending sectors" you have a problem. |
| 18:08.32 | jair | I tried that package from > https://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/mysql-workbench/download |
| 18:09.02 | jair | I wonder if this is showing something obvious > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/mysql-workbench |
| 18:09.37 | annadane | !debian-next |
| 18:09.37 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. oftc OFTC oftc oftc OFTC? Invite? Oftc oftc malkovich oftc. |
| 18:10.11 | petn-randall | solido: Can you share the output of 'smartctl -a /dev/<yourfailingdrive>' with us? â https://paste.debian.net |
| 18:10.23 | t3st3r | most obvious thing about pending sectors would be to touch these sectors and rewrite them to see whether they would work - drive would sort it out either way. |
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| 18:11.37 | Iridos | Huh⦠when I read man 5 proc⦠and look in /proc/[pid]/stat*⦠vsize from "stat" seems to be 4096 times the VmSize value from "statm"⦠and that seems to be 4 times the VmSize value in kB from "status" |
| 18:11.46 | Ouroboros | solido: hm, maybe i misunderstood how it can work, maybe it requires some efi magic |
| 18:12.05 | Iridos | e.g. stat: 2809249792 statm: 685852; status: VmSize: 2743408 kB |
| 18:12.18 | Iridos | and for VmRSS it's even different |
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| 18:12.46 | Iridos | for VmRss it's e.g. stat: 96461 statm: 96461 status: VmRSS: 385844 kB |
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| 18:13.12 | petn-randall | t3st3r: "offline uncorrectable" would not help anymore, it means the disk ran out of reserve blocks. |
| 18:14.50 | t3st3r | petn-randall> hmm seems I've mistook offline uncorrectable for pending. Either way I like your idea to see whole smart. |
| 18:14.56 | jrm | petn-randall: I'm struggling to find the new URL for https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/android-tools/android-tools.git/plain/debian/fastboot.1?id=706e754 on salsa. The links on https://salsa.debian.org/android-tools-team/android-tools are broken. |
| 18:15.41 | jrm | It looks like https is broken. |
| 18:16.08 | t3st3r | and I've always thought offline unc is what firmware found during background autonomous scans not caused by host activity, |
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| 18:17.02 | solido | petn-randall: here it is: https://paste.debian.net/1028813/ |
| 18:17.26 | t3st3r | and my experience suggests that drives usually fail other ways when grown defect list is full. |
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| 18:18.02 | Iridos | oh, ok⦠didn't read the man page carefully enough statm is in pages, status in kB⦠stat vsize in bytes |
| 18:18.26 | Iridos | meh, and rss in stat is in pages⦠|
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| 18:20.03 | t3st3r | solido> FYI, your drive scored more than 1.6 *millions* of start-stop counts and head parkings. |
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| 18:21.12 | m712 | that's an old drive if i've ever seen one |
| 18:21.18 | t3st3r | if that field is correct, it pretty much on the edge of its grave and smart honestly warns you its not very good to say the least. |
| 18:21.29 | solido | hm, ok. |
| 18:21.48 | m712 | actually it's not very old |
| 18:21.52 | solido | it's been sitting in a heavily used laptop for 5 - 6 years or so. |
| 18:21.55 | m712 | barely over 3 years of startup |
| 18:22.00 | m712 | poweron time* |
| 18:22.10 | solido | only 3 years? |
| 18:22.12 | t3st3r | speaking for myself I would expect death of this thing any time - back up your data on regular basis. |
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| 18:23.12 | petn-randall | solido: Yes, that disk is dead. If not, you'll see creeping file corruption, which will be a PITA to recover from, even if you have backups. |
| 18:23.18 | t3st3r | solido> seems you've been heavily using drive and it had aggressive power save settings... actually, 1.6+M parking cycles without death is fairly good. |
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| 18:23.50 | t3st3r | if you use laptop attached to mains, you can pay attention to reduce power management aggression. |
| 18:24.09 | solido | ok, thanks... i'll start looking for replacements. |
| 18:24.31 | t3st3r | and if it comes to batteries... I would like SSDs :) they do not need to spin up/down after all |
| 18:24.37 | annadane | i am extremely paranoid about my external HD just dying one day |
| 18:24.43 | annadane | i really need to look into backup solutions |
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| 18:25.16 | t3st3r | annadane> SMART could eventually give you a hints of upcoming problems. In this case, it just did exactly that. |
| 18:25.21 | megaTherion | greycat: thanks for the response |
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| 18:26.17 | solido | t3st3r: for future reference, what tool should i use to change disk power management settings? hdparm? |
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| 18:26.40 | t3st3r | yeah, hdparm could do the trick. |
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| 18:27.13 | t3st3r | though sometimes power mgmt software can somewhat interfere with that, it depends |
| 18:27.17 | JLprim | working on recovering deleated files on an SD card chose dev/sdc1 now it wants to know what the filesystem type where the file where stored is |
| 18:27.50 | solido | by the way, would btrfs catch any file corruptions with its checksums? or doesn't that cover the actual data? |
| 18:27.55 | JLprim | options are ext1/ext3 or other fat/ntfs/hfs/reiserfs |
| 18:28.11 | t3st3r | solido> it does checksums data and metadata by default. |
| 18:28.24 | JLprim | but i dont see sd as an option any idea what one to chose im using photorec |
| 18:28.37 | t3st3r | On single drive it also keeps 2 copy of metadata, so if sector under metadata fails to read... having 2nd copy is very handy. |
| 18:29.22 | solido | ok, great. thanks for the advice! |
| 18:29.33 | m712 | my current drive also fsck's every 5 bootups |
| 18:29.40 | m712 | don't have the money to replace right now |
| 18:29.45 | t3st3r | but one little thing: btrfs is good with recent kernels. |
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| 18:30.42 | t3st3r | at least 4.x kernel is a must and the more recent the better |
| 18:30.48 | Ouroboros | annadane: just rsync it all to my 10-year old laptop drive #worksfine |
| 18:31.08 | annadane | thanks, i'll absolutely trust you with my personal photo |
| 18:31.10 | annadane | s |
| 18:31.37 | Ouroboros | i am fully gdpr-compliant |
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| 18:32.53 | t3st3r | I back up valuable data to external drive I usually disconnect. So it neither wears out nor would fail at same time as other things. |
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| 18:35.04 | annadane | not a bad idea |
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| 18:36.31 | t3st3r | really paranoid companies also ensure backup media stored in other location... could make sense in cases of major disasters (fire, flood, whatever). So putting encrypted copy to cloud could be idea as well. |
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| 18:38.21 | Ouroboros | lately, i have been asking whether any of that is worth the residual value of the data, which is close to zero |
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| 18:40.00 | annadane | i don't understand cloud privacy implications so i'm hesitant |
| 18:40.36 | greycat | Encrypt it before uploading, and then it won't matter (much). |
| 18:40.49 | Ouroboros | i think, when you lose data, the biggest impact is purely psychological, which can easily be avoided by not storing the data in the first place |
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| 18:42.51 | Ouroboros | take personal photos, for example, who is going to look at them, really? pick the 10 best ones, print them out, give them to your family, done |
| 18:42.53 | t3st3r | annadane> reasonable. You can run some remote computer on other location and if it isn't under your full control, nothing prevents encrypting data on your side. |
| 18:43.43 | t3st3r | Ouroboros> take personal photos, for example, who is going to look at them, really? <- actually, plenty of things... neural nets and so on :) |
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| 18:44.27 | t3st3r | at some point companies like google of facebook could/would know more about person than that person self... |
| 18:44.29 | Ouroboros | t3st3r: well, sure, google is literally tracking everyone |
| 18:44.51 | Ouroboros | if you have ever been tagged in a google photo, which i can almost guarantee that you have, it is over |
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| 18:45.29 | t3st3r | <greycat> Encrypt it before uploading, and then it won't matter (much). <- you still ping company from your IP & account. Some room to collect your location. |
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| 18:46.17 | Ouroboros | but my point is, what is the residual value of the data *to you*? |
| 18:46.34 | t3st3r | Ouroboros> well, the more data one feeds, the more data to chew on, the more conclusions to draw, the more reliable learning is,... |
| 18:47.49 | Ouroboros | for example, i have probably spent less than 1 day looking at my past photos, and probably 1000x as much ensuring that they are preserved, is that a good tradeoff? |
| 18:48.37 | t3st3r | what one have to do to work 1000 days on preserving photos? |
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| 18:48.56 | Ouroboros | numbers slightly exaggerated to reinforce the point |
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| 18:49.22 | t3st3r | backups usually meant to happen with minumal human supervision if not automatically... |
| 18:50.27 | Ouroboros | you need to include the cost of all the other dependencies |
| 18:50.54 | Ouroboros | sure, if you just upload them to google, like most people, then the cost is pretty minimal |
| 18:51.22 | Ouroboros | if you are maintaining the backup systems yourself, it is not, even in the best case |
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| 18:54.12 | JLprim | whats the easyest way to set up a back up system that only backs up certain files and saves any changes to those files |
| 18:54.49 | greycat | rsync to a VPS |
| 18:54.49 | Ouroboros | cron + rsync or cron + zfs snapshots |
| 18:55.07 | JLprim | have no idea what that means lol |
| 18:55.07 | greycat | or to an external drive |
| 18:55.20 | JLprim | to an 4t external |
| 18:55.36 | greycat | Oh, you HAD a specific hardware solution in mind already and didn't bother mentioning this?! |
| 18:55.49 | JLprim | lol sry |
| 18:55.59 | greycat | If it's a 4T drive why are you only backing up "specific files"? |
| 18:56.06 | greycat | err, "certain files" |
| 18:56.27 | Ouroboros | greycat: there is a *lot* of... uh... media |
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| 18:56.43 | t3st3r | rsync to vps does not solves problem of having >1 version available, if that's needed |
| 18:56.49 | JLprim | only need a few files backed up as those the ones i use and want to be able to access them on any computer as thyey are vid and pics |
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| 18:57.08 | greycat | Where did he say he wanted multiple separate versions? And yes, it does, if you set it up that way. |
| 18:58.05 | greycat | But anyway, the VPS idea is out the window because after the initial question, he said he has a 4T external drive he wants to use instead. |
| 18:58.23 | greycat | So, put a unix file system on the drive, attach it, power it on, mount it, rsync to it. |
| 18:59.27 | t3st3r | <Ouroboros> if you are maintaining the backup systems yourself, it is not, even in the best case <- at least Windows google sync client is a slow resource hog. |
| 18:59.44 | JLprim | would that alow for me to edit files from lets say a windows computer as well ? |
| 18:59.49 | t3st3r | and it hardly free lunch when your computer lags all the time due to that thing |
| 19:00.05 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 19:00.34 | t3st3r | not sure how it performs in linux, I dont have google account anyway :) |
| 19:02.41 | JLprim | any one familure with photorec? |
| 19:03.33 | annadane | ,v photorec |
| 19:03.34 | judd | No package named 'photorec' was found in amd64. |
| 19:03.40 | annadane | is it even packaged for debian |
| 19:03.56 | JLprim | i have it running in terminal |
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| 19:06.21 | JLprim | trying to recover a few vids that i accedentaly deleated before it got done transfering over to the comp and it wants to know filesystem type where the file ware stored just gives options of ext2/ext3/ or other lil fat ntfs/hfs but im trying to get it off an sd card so not sure what of those options to choose |
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| 19:07.37 | JLprim | trying to follow the directions off this link https://www.tecmint.com/photorec-recover-deleted-lost-files-in-linux/ |
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| 19:28.28 | daemon | hey all I just installed pgadmin4-apache2 |
| 19:28.33 | daemon | as I quickly needed pgadmin4 ona server |
| 19:28.41 | daemon | but after starting apache I just get the apache welcome page |
| 19:28.47 | daemon | there appears to be no sites or anything I can enable ... |
| 19:28.51 | daemon | how the heck does this work |
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| 19:31.56 | FinalX | with something like dpkg -L pgadmin4-apache2 you can usually see what it installs |
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| 19:32.51 | daemon | hmm it appears to not actually install any sites |
| 19:32.55 | daemon | what a useless instsaller |
| 19:33.04 | daemon | it basically just installs apache2 and pgadmin and does nothing else |
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| 19:36.13 | somiaj | daemon: it might install more than that, look at the package depends, and it could be the site just isn't enabled by default, look in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled and sites-avaiable |
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| 19:36.29 | daemon | somiaj, it does not add anything into /etc/apache2 at all |
| 19:36.49 | daemon | it just installs the python deps for pgadmin4 and apache2 its self |
| 19:36.50 | somiaj | also check /usr/share/doc/packagename often times there are readmes that explain after installation pieces to do |
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| 19:37.39 | somiaj | I see no package pgadmin4 in debian, where are you getting this package? |
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| 19:38.26 | daemon | somiaj, pgadmin4-apache2 |
| 19:38.28 | daemon | is its fully name |
| 19:38.29 | greycat | ,v pgadmin4-apache2 |
| 19:38.31 | judd | No package named 'pgadmin4-apache2' was found in amd64. |
| 19:38.49 | somiaj | there is no pgadmin4 package in debian, there is a pgadmin3 package, but no pgadmin3-apache2 package |
| 19:38.54 | daemon | â[~]> apt-cache search pgadmin4 | grep apache |
| 19:38.54 | daemon | pgadmin4-apache2 - PostgreSQL management tool - WSGI application |
| 19:39.02 | daemon | thought I had standard repos |
| 19:39.04 | daemon | hmm |
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| 19:39.09 | somiaj | daemon: share the output of apt policy pgadmin4-apache2 at paste.debian.net |
| 19:39.42 | daemon | https://paste.ee/p/ELd13 |
| 19:40.07 | somiaj | you should ask the creaters of said package (postgresql.org) how to enable them |
| 19:40.14 | somiaj | or read the docs, sure it is documented somewhere |
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| 19:43.02 | daemon | I went about it another way, I am working on a docker stack for where I work I wanted something nice to examinea DB in |
| 19:43.22 | daemon | but luckily there was a pgadmin4 docker, so I added that into the docker-compose exposed it then nginx proxy_pass'd to it from the host |
| 19:43.30 | daemon | not exactly clean but got the result I needed :P |
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| 19:56.36 | Das | hello all |
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| 20:00.14 | Das | I've been trying to get a debian server up on my test network, I've spent roughly 3 days now troubleshooting, and nothing I've done has worked at this point. Is there anyone here who might have a moment to talk with me about networking in debian? |
| 20:00.45 | greycat | Configure basic networking by editing /etc/network/interfaces |
| 20:01.09 | greycat | Does your test network use DHCP, or are you manually assigning addresses? |
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| 20:02.08 | Das | yep, did that. tried dhcp, and tried static settings, I can't get it to work either way. There's not domain network set up, just a basic 192.168.1.x/24 and I have DHCP working on some PCs on the network but on this debian box I got nothin |
| 20:03.00 | Das | I can't connect to the router, it's a wired connection, no firewall on the debian box |
| 20:03.18 | Das | but when I plug into any other machine, I get internet, dhcp, etc |
| 20:03.19 | greycat | "got nothin" meaning what, exactly? What is the output of "ip a"? Can you ping the box by IP (not by name)? |
| 20:03.33 | Das | one sec |
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| 20:05.24 | somiaj | Do you happen to have a wired card that requires non-free firmware to work, some realtek 8198 or something card. |
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| 20:12.09 | jhutchins_wk | Das: Doe the lights on the card come on? |
| 20:12.44 | jhutchins_wk | Das: Check dmesg to see what's happening on boot. |
| 20:14.58 | Das | sorry for the hold up. I am not a very quick linux user, and I don't have an ssh on it atm, so I'm copying details to files on USB and printing them here. |
| 20:15.04 | Mr_Queue | Das how about the output of lspci -vvvv | grep -i ether |
| 20:15.10 | Das | I appreciate any patience, seriously |
| 20:15.20 | Das | 1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 ::1/128 scope host valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN group default qlen 1000 link/ether 40:61:86:0d:b0:e3 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff |
| 20:15.57 | Das | so, a couple of things |
| 20:15.58 | jhutchins_wk | Das: Clever solution. I hate it when people post pictures of the screen. |
| 20:16.08 | Das | I need to redo that anyway. it doesn't have the eth device I need |
| 20:16.20 | Das | but essentially, 2 nics |
| 20:16.29 | Das | im trying to just use eth1 for now |
| 20:16.49 | Das | one sec: I need route info, ip info, and resolv.conf, hosts file, anything else/ |
| 20:16.59 | jhutchins_wk | Das: if eth0 up? |
| 20:17.01 | greycat | Das: lspci -nn, and dmesg | grep -i firmware |
| 20:17.11 | Das | ok one second i'll get all that |
| 20:17.29 | jhutchins_wk | !paste |
| 20:17.29 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 20:18.06 | somiaj | Das: lspci, what chipset do you have on your eithernet card? |
| 20:18.18 | greycat | that's what we're hoping to find out from lspci -nn |
| 20:18.34 | somiaj | ahh missed that |
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| 20:20.36 | jhutchins_wk | I would expect that if it knows enough to tell that the state is down and assign an IPV6 address it's OK on a hardware/driver level. |
| 20:21.13 | greycat | He pasted part of eth0's "ip a" stanza but then he said he wants to use eth1. |
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| 20:23.17 | Das | ok. debian pasting now |
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| 20:24.57 | Das | so I may be a little in the dark here, but lspci gave alot of info, and that grep returned empy, do I run them together/ |
| 20:25.10 | Ouroboros | hm, so grub 2 does in fact support /boot on luks using an internal implementation |
| 20:25.18 | greycat | They're separate. Just paste whatever you have. |
| 20:25.23 | Das | ok |
| 20:25.39 | somiaj | Ouroboros: yes, but there are no debian tools that automate this that I know of, you'll have to do some manual configuration. |
| 20:25.49 | Ouroboros | but not sure that i want to try this and break my system |
| 20:26.08 | Das | hosts - https://paste.debian.net/1028819/ |
| 20:26.27 | Das | shit, i'm doing a whole paaste. my bad |
| 20:26.31 | jhutchins_wk | Das: dmesg | grep -i firmware - all one command, the | "pipes" the output of the dmesg to grep |
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| 20:26.49 | somiaj | I don't know how much security is actually obtained by having /boot encrypted. Maybe they can get a little idea of the layout of the encrpytion, but that won't allow them to unencrypt it if you have your key separate. |
| 20:27.25 | Ouroboros | somiaj: yes, it is mostly pointless |
| 20:27.31 | jhutchins_wk | somiaj: I think the idea is that they can tamper with your boot files and possibly get the crypt keys. |
| 20:28.16 | somiaj | jhutchins_wk: but they could just tamper with the firmware...but I see. |
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| 20:28.26 | Ouroboros | jhutchins_wk: avoiding that requires efi and probably other counter-measures, and considering that this is running on a vm... :P |
| 20:28.37 | Das | OK. https://paste.debian.net/1028820/ |
| 20:28.40 | Das | sorry for taking so long |
| 20:29.11 | jhutchins_wk | Hey, we didn't start out being ligntening operators either. |
| 20:29.21 | Das | haha :) |
| 20:29.25 | Ouroboros | jhutchins_wk: and even in that case, i am not sure how you would validate that the hardware has not been modified |
| 20:29.27 | greycat | eth1 is up but has "NO-CARRIER" which means you have the cable plugged into the wrong port? |
| 20:29.29 | Das | I'm a PC guy trying his best |
| 20:29.42 | Ouroboros | jhutchins_wk: does efi provide some sort of authentication mechanism? |
| 20:29.51 | Das | that's odd, because it says the Realtek card is eth0, and the Intel on-board is eth1 |
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| 20:30.00 | Das | or did in the graphic installer anyways |
| 20:30.16 | jhutchins_wk | Ouroboros: No idea. I don't mess with encryption. (Not a philosophical thing, just haven't encountered a need.) |
| 20:30.23 | greycat | Just for grins, if you plug the cable in the other interface, does it work? |
| 20:30.28 | Das | one sec |
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| 20:30.50 | Das | son of a bitch.. |
| 20:30.54 | Das | i feel dumb |
| 20:30.57 | greycat | (Also see if "ip a" changes eth1's state from NO-CARRIER to something else.) |
| 20:30.57 | Das | but...why/ |
| 20:31.04 | Das | ok |
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| 20:31.16 | Das | it surely just says broadcast now |
| 20:31.28 | greycat | Das: this is one of the reasons why eth0/eth1/etc. naming is deprecated. It's not predictable until the udev file is written with the MACs in it. |
| 20:31.31 | Das | I was wondering why it said no carrier....I was just so sure that the labels were correct... |
| 20:31.55 | Das | So is there a way to check/modify the names of the devices/ |
| 20:31.56 | Das | ? |
| 20:32.16 | Das | or somehow make that info accurate |
| 20:32.25 | greycat | look in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules |
| 20:33.29 | Ouroboros | somiaj: but in the most basic case, it seems like you can just move /boot to an encrypted fs, update fstab, update grub config, and you are done |
| 20:33.40 | Ouroboros | somiaj: then again, who knows what can go wrong |
| 20:33.42 | Das | wow |
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| 20:34.28 | jhutchins_wk | Ouroboros: Probably need to update initramfs |
| 20:34.34 | Ouroboros | yes, that too |
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| 20:34.55 | Das | So if I swap these names here, I can swap cables back I take it or is this just a point of reference? |
| 20:35.03 | Ouroboros | and reinstall grub to the mbr |
| 20:35.21 | greycat | The udev file will assign the interface names at boot time. What you do at this point is up to you. |
| 20:35.24 | jhutchins_wk | Ouroboros: Well, the MBR shouldn't change |
| 20:35.30 | Mr_Queue | Das: You can rename them to anything you want actually. |
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| 20:36.22 | Das | oh that's even better. greycat you rock |
| 20:37.00 | Ouroboros | jhutchins_wk: maybe not, if it already knows what to do with encrypted /boot |
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| 20:39.05 | Ouroboros | what is annoying is that the cryptsetup faq i was using is on gitlab, which has been down for days... did they delete their db again? |
| 20:39.16 | Das | If I had to skip out on the additional packages on install because I didnt have internet configured.. can I just do apt-get update && upgrade to get those packages, or is it just easier to install with the network configured |
| 20:39.37 | Ouroboros | just install them now |
| 20:40.00 | jhutchins_wk | !tasksel |
| 20:40.01 | dpkg | tasksel is a program to select and install "tasks": a collection of packages for a system to perform a specific task (e.g. desktop environment, web server). Ask me about <standard task>, <server tasks> and <laptop task>. https://wiki.debian.org/tasksel |
| 20:40.30 | greycat | Das: you'll want to check /etc/apt/sources.list because it may not have written a proper file for you without a network |
| 20:40.45 | greycat | the installer is notorious for "guessing" what to do, and getting it all wrong |
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| 20:40.49 | jhutchins_wk | Das: upgrade would only upgrade what's already installed. If some didn't install because they tried and failed, aptitude -f install would fix things that are missing. |
| 20:41.07 | greycat | !stretch sources.list |
| 20:41.08 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 20:41.23 | Ouroboros | Das: but you should have configured the networking in the installer, possibly manually in the shell |
| 20:41.49 | greycat | Don't worry about what "should have" happened in the installer. It's in the past. |
| 20:41.50 | Das | Ah, so I should probably just go ahead and reinstall :D Thank you guys for everything. I'm not great with linux, but I was really second guessing my understanding of it all for a second. |
| 20:41.59 | Ouroboros | for next time :P |
| 20:42.00 | Das | and yeah I did it just wasn't grabbing DHCP, because wrong port..haha...ha |
| 20:42.01 | greycat | I would not reinstall. I would go forward. |
| 20:42.06 | Das | oh |
| 20:42.18 | jhutchins_wk | Das: I dunno, I think you should press on, and if you need something, install it. |
| 20:42.39 | jhutchins_wk | Das: Clearly you have enough for a basic core OS and can install software (just set up your sources properly). |
| 20:42.40 | Ouroboros | Das: if the system is booting, there is no reason to reinstall |
| 20:42.46 | jhutchins_wk | Das: This is a good way to learn. |
| 20:42.50 | jhutchins_wk | !sources |
| 20:42.50 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
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| 20:44.18 | Das | that's fair. I mean, I could have only missed out on so much, right? One other question, as I havent found a proper answer for this: I'm going to use this to test out packetfence, and the 'live' usb download for it was a .deb package. I'm not familiar with DEB files, but from what I read is it's just kind of like an installer? |
| 20:46.32 | Das | also thank you jhutchins, ouroboros, somia, greycat, and mr_queue for all of your quick responses, you all are extremely helpful |
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| 20:50.52 | hxmuller | UEFI question (I have to manually set this up), am I supposed to link to the EFI partition /EFI/debian from within /boot/efi ? (to get /boot/efi/EFI/debian) |
| 20:51.31 | greycat | The EFI partition should normally be mounted on /boot/efi |
| 20:51.50 | greycat | And yes, it has an EFI directory at its top level. |
| 20:52.17 | Das | I refreshed, so If anyone replied I didn't see. How exactly do DEB files work? Are they entire images? |
| 20:52.25 | hxmuller | greycat: thanks, that's what I wanted to confirm. this is my first uefi motherboard. |
| 20:52.48 | greycat | Das: a .deb is a package, which contains a bunch of files to be installed. |
| 20:53.01 | greycat | There's a .tar.gz inside it, and some other stuff. |
| 20:53.47 | hxmuller | Das: https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging |
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| 20:54.42 | Das | https://packetfence.org/download.html#/zen -- the bottom link here is a .deb file, and it seems like there'a huge disconnect for instructions (which is a simple bootable iso tutorial) |
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| 20:55.01 | Das | so I assumed that I set up a debian server, and install the .deb package? |
| 20:55.42 | greycat | No, just use apt to install things over the network. |
| 20:56.02 | greycat | Downloading .deb files manually should not be your first choice. |
| 20:56.07 | Das | ok, will do |
| 20:57.09 | Das | Well, I didn't know they were deb files. I was looking for an easy solution just for testing purposes, but the 'live CD' was a .deb file so I didn't really understand how to apply it |
| 20:58.08 | hxmuller | Das: I just peeked at that, the bottom link is not .deb file. Maybe because I looked at it from linux. |
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| 21:00.34 | hxmuller | Das: It's an image you are supposed to burn to a USB flashdrive |
| 21:01.07 | hxmuller | after you extract it. |
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| 21:02.24 | Das | It was definitely not a deb file that time...maybe I'm the one who clicked the wrong link, I didn't try downloading it a second time. Man, today i'm on a roll. |
| 21:02.49 | Das | That's definitely a .img file coming out of a bz2 |
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| 21:04.37 | mallxs | i have changed my mb from AMD to Intel .. still using the same install from the AMD ... can this give problems ? what should i do ? |
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| 21:05.10 | greycat | Make sure the devices you care about are working. If they're not, try to find out why. Possibly by adding more firmware. |
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| 21:05.37 | dogui | Would anyone know how to get pretty notification for Chromium instead of the default libnotify ones? I have them in my laptop, but not on a new desktop, and I cannot tell why! |
| 21:05.57 | greycat | If the network interface(s) are on the mobo, their name(s) might have changed, in which case you may have to reconfigure things a bit in /etc/network/interfaces. |
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| 21:06.24 | Das | Thank you for your help everyone. |
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| 21:07.53 | mallxs | greycat: i use that system as a router with 4 PCI eth cards, they are working fine but every now and then the system freezes. (already removed fancontrol) |
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| 21:08.43 | classssic | hi |
| 21:09.25 | classssic | somebody know why I can`t get connect ssh with key rsa between debian 8 to debian 9? |
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| 21:10.05 | annadane | classssic, do you mean between debian 8 and debian 9 computers, or that since debian 9 it doesn't work anymore? |
| 21:10.31 | classssic | debian 8 -----> debian 8 works |
| 21:10.41 | classssic | debian 8 ------>debian 9, get deny |
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| 21:11.09 | classssic | i think is some more strict protocol in debian 9 |
| 21:13.18 | somiaj | run ssh -vvv foo@bar to get more info about what is being rejected, that may help debug this |
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| 21:13.26 | Nitroghez | https://tinyurl.com/ya79dnx5 |
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| 21:13.59 | annadane | ^ i would not click that |
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| 21:17.01 | jim | hi, is there a plugin for qtractor to make it aware of jackd? |
| 21:17.22 | somiaj | that question might be better directed to qtractor support or docs. |
| 21:17.59 | jim | trying lots of apt-cache searches |
| 21:20.08 | somiaj | that can help, but often just check out upstream, debian has tons of packages, and often times questions like that can be answered by looking over mailing lists/forums/docs from upstream. |
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| 21:23.20 | Iridos | can I in some way relate memory.max_usage_in_bytes from cgroups with the VmSize and VmRSS of the processes in the cgroup? At least approximately? |
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| 21:28.59 | Ouroboros | jhutchins: actually, why would you need to update initramfs in the above procedure? |
| 21:30.14 | Ouroboros | does the initramfs need to know about the location of /boot? |
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| 21:41.12 | Ouroboros | on the other hand, grub documentation does suggest that grub may need to be reinstalled to the mbr, if it was not installed with support for encryption before |
| 21:41.30 | dhollinger | Hello, can anyone here point me to the correct documentation for how to add network routes to Debian 8 and 9. I'm working on updating the network_route code for https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-network/pull/245 and am a little confused on the "correct" way to add/remove static routes to the network files. |
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| 21:41.56 | dhollinger | At least in Debian. (EL was easy as the file format is literally 1:1 with the ip route command parameters) |
| 21:43.13 | Ouroboros | i do not know about the most sanctioned way, but you can certainly just add ip route commands to /etc/network/interfaces |
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| 21:43.59 | Ouroboros | but if this is an automated thing, then there is probably a better way |
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| 21:48.27 | Ouroboros | before, the official way was to add scripts to /etc/network/if-up.d|if-down.d, this may still work, but there is probably a different way now |
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| 21:49.54 | Ouroboros | i am sure that systemd has its own files, or it could even be part of a service description |
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| 21:52.24 | somiaj | those scripts are for if using the interfaces file and do work, you can also have preup, postup, etc scripts called from the interfaces directly |
| 21:52.31 | somiaj | so if using the interfaces file, that all still works |
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| 21:53.47 | tree25 | How do you operate multiple usb camera's on a single usb 3.0 controller? |
| 21:53.54 | hxmuller | I just put mine in /etc/network/interfaces.d/ |
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| 21:54.14 | hxmuller | tree25: usb hub? |
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| 21:54.31 | tree25 | hxmuller: the internal usb hub/controller |
| 21:55.27 | tree25 | it appears that each camera wants all the data budget |
| 21:55.32 | dhollinger | hxmuller somiaj Ouroboros - is using Systemd-network a preferred way? I could work that in as well. |
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| 21:55.49 | hxmuller | dhollinger: that's what I'm using |
| 21:55.57 | somiaj | dhollinger: I don't think there is a prefered way, networkd is disabled by default, but if you want to use that, you can |
| 21:56.00 | hxmuller | tree25: https://askubuntu.com/questions/914077/multiple-usb-cams-on-ubuntu-14-04 |
| 21:56.21 | somiaj | dhollinger: debian still defaults to the /etc/network/interfaces file, but that too is optional, as there are tools such as network-manager and wicd that can also manage networks |
| 21:56.37 | somiaj | my advise is don't use multiple tools, pick one and only use that |
| 21:56.44 | dhollinger | if networkd is disabled by default, then I'll skip it for now. Looking for the closest to the most common way to cover the most ground with support |
| 21:58.30 | dhollinger | somiaj: that's my goal. May just shoot for /etc/network/interfaces and then rely on PRs for iterations/improvements. Go for the smallest, simplest change first |
| 21:58.32 | dhollinger | thanks! |
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| 21:59.34 | tree25 | hxmuller: it says that it works with opencv, but I was trying vlc and in general you cannot stream more than one camera, because of budgeting on usb 2.0 |
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| 22:00.09 | tree25 | even with 320x240@30fps |
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| 22:01.08 | hxmuller | tree25: based on that link, it looks like you require usb3 cameras |
| 22:01.31 | hxmuller | If you want to have multiple usb cameras attached |
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| 22:02.37 | tree25 | hxmuller: simple usb 3.0 camera's are hard to find |
| 22:02.46 | tree25 | it's all usb 2.0 |
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| 22:08.34 | Ouroboro | dhollinger: are you distributing this somehow? |
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| 22:16.45 | tree25 | hxmuller: it should actually possible to run the camera's simultiously, because the camera's are requesting too much budget |
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| 22:16.56 | tree25 | so it is a software prblem |
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| 22:28.27 | tree25 | I am searching for 630x480@30fps usb 3.0 camera |
| 22:29.15 | tree25 | 50$ |
| 22:29.31 | tree25 | not 500$ |
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| 22:55.52 | josefig | hi guys, someone has configured correctly the magic mouse on debian 9 ? I have some issues, like a simple click is not detected sometimes or even closes the window from status bar |
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| 23:01.27 | hxmuller | I just had a problem with a dell pixart optical mouse. Research indicated an hid quirk might be in order. Switched it out with an identical mouse, problem went away. |
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| 23:16.01 | Pakaran | Hi, I just started a VM that had been hibernating for several weeks, and it's refusing to update with the following: https://imgur.com/a/G3DNuuJ Obviously the problem is the system clock still thinks it's May, but how do I force it to update immediately? |
| 23:16.08 | Pakaran | Apparently ntpdate got removed at some point |
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| 23:22.16 | somiaj | Pakaran: systemd in stretch has a timesync tool that should be running |
| 23:23.04 | tabakhase | also "ntpdate-debian" should be a thing |
| 23:23.18 | somiaj | The service is systemd-timesyncd, check out that service with systemctl |
| 23:23.41 | somiaj | usually ntpdate is not suggested, and ntpd is prefered (an actual daemon). You could also just use 'date' to change the time |
| 23:23.46 | somiaj | well date/time |
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| 23:31.36 | Pakaran | thanks guys |
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| 23:33.22 | tree25 | How do you run multiple webcams on a single usb 3.0 controller? |
| 23:33.34 | tree25 | This can be solved in software |
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