IRC log for #debian on 20180616

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00:10.25pierrotHi. I'm using Debian 9 and installed the android-sdk package. I'm trying to compile scrcpy from here https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy and the error I'm getting is that I haven't accepted the "SDK license agreements"
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00:12.45pierrotI've searched the web for it and found that I must accept the licenses running $ANDROID_HOME/tools/bin/sdkmanager --licenses
00:12.57pierrothowever, in that path there isn't any sdkmanager
00:13.07pierrotso I don't know how to accept the the licenses
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00:21.57*** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.4 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
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01:00.24r3Hi all, just wanted to wish everyone a happy Friday!  :)
01:00.55Svetahi r3 :)
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01:06.48Svetahey rpifan, bhowdy :)
01:06.59rpifanim ok u
01:07.21VirgoGood evening
01:07.26Svetaupdating pc on weekend rpifan :)
01:07.30Svetahi Virgo :)
01:07.36Virgohi :)
01:07.49rpifannice
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02:33.41Ouroboroswow, 'ifup eth0' -> 'Waiting for DAD...'
02:33.47Ouroborosi got scared... thanks, DAD
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02:36.48contrapunctus[m]Debian 9.4. I installed ibus and ibus-m17n, which on previous Debian installations would IIRC provide a 'devanagari-inscript' input method, but now it seems to be nowhere to be seen in the 'add input method' menu.
02:37.36contrapunctus[m]Some page recommended running `gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.input-sources show-all-sources true', but that didn't result in any change.
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03:04.43melissa666Why would does running `sudo ip link set mtu 1532 dev wlan0` give me the error "RTNETLINK answers: Invalid argument"?
03:05.04melissa666is it saying that the device can't use an mtu of 1532?
03:05.31melissa666or am I passing the wrong args to the command?
03:05.44michael2what is mtu?
03:07.07melissa666michael2, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_transmission_unit
03:07.32michael2melissa666: your order of args is wrong
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03:09.49michael2melissa666: if you run `ip link help'
03:10.00michael2it tells you the order
03:10.05michael2ip link set { DEVICE | dev DEVICE | group DEVGROUP }
03:10.05melissa666michael2, thanks - but `sudo ip link set dev wlan0 mtu 1532` and `sudo ip link set wlan0 mtu 1532` give the same error
03:12.32melissa666hmmm, I get similar error when I run `sudo ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1532` ... "SIOCSIFMTU: Invalid argument" ... must be invalid to set to 1532 for some reason
03:12.42michael2melissa666: and your interface identifier is definitely `wlan0' ?
03:13.14melissa666<PROTECTED>
03:13.24melissa666yes, definitely wlan0
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03:16.41michael2sorry, I cant think of any thing else to try
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03:24.21Ouroborosgreat, having 'iface eth0 inet ...' and 'iface eth0 inet6 ..." in interfaces *still* does not work properly even though the manpage indicates that it does
03:24.37whislockOuroboros: What issue are you having?
03:25.22Ouroborosthe script brings down the link before the second iface stanza is executed, which causes an error when the address is deleted e.g.
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03:25.35whislockOuroboros: Pastebin your /e/n/i for me?
03:26.00Ouroborosthis particular issue does not affect functionality, but still
03:26.16whislockOuroboros: I'm actually pretty good with these setups, let me take a crack at it. :)
03:26.47Ouroboroswell, i am actually going to configure it differently anyway, so unless you are going to submit a patch :P
03:26.55whislockWho knows, I might.
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03:27.19whislockYour /e/n/i and the error you're getting, if you're willing?
03:28.31Ouroboroswell, then try this: auto <if>; iface <if> inet static; address <address>; iface <if> inet6 static; address <address>, where ; is newline
03:28.52whislockYeah, I do that all the time.
03:28.58whislockThis box, for instance.
03:30.12michael2is it possible to start "font-manager" to preview just a single font?
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03:31.19Ouroboros'ifup <if>; ifdown <if>': this should produce 'RTNETLINK answers: Cannot assign requested address'
03:31.55Ouroboros(in the second command)
03:32.06whislockNot for me. So, again, your /e/n/i would be helpful.
03:32.24Ouroborosthat is literally the whole thing, just with addresses redacted
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03:32.45whislockThen it's not the whole thing, is it. :P
03:32.55Ouroborosshrug
03:33.13whislockI don't get the error you're getting, and I've been using that config since stretch launched.
03:33.15whislockshrug
03:33.44Ouroborosthen maybe *your* interfaces is not exactly the same :P
03:33.54Ouroborosand/or something else is different
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03:35.06Ouroborosfrom 'ifdown -v', it is pretty clear why the error is happening
03:36.42whislockOuroboros: https://paste.debian.net/1029458/
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03:37.58Ouroboroshold on, i don't have web :P
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03:53.27michael2Ouroboros: if you want to view a paste.debian in your terminal just add "plain" and curl it
03:53.33michael2https://paste.debian.net/plain/1029458
03:53.44michael2curl https://paste.debian.net/plain/1029458
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04:11.47Ouroborosmichael2: no, i mean, i don't have web *here*
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04:16.32Ouroboroswhislock: hm, can you show the output of 'ifdown -v' and 'ifup -v' for that (with addresses redacted)?
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04:24.57whislockOuroboros: Yeah, let me reach a stopping point so I can drop my network.
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04:35.05whislockOuroboros: Ten points to you, I AM getting the error you mentioned. I never noticed it before.
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04:47.32Ouroborosheh
04:47.54whislockOuroboros: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1029459/
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04:50.36Ouroborosthere is also some other strange stuff in my output, such as that for ipv4 it does 'address add' then 'link set up', and for ipv6 it does the reverse
04:51.31Ouroborosnot certain whether that matters, i am yet not that familiar with the 'new' iproute commands
04:52.45Ouroborosanyway, i am just going to set the interface to 'manual' and do everything myself
04:59.08Ouroboroswhislock: yeah, looks about the same as mine, thanks for another data point
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06:00.50mackerel449does debian have binaries compiled with profile guided optimzations?
06:03.00annadaneAFAIK no
06:03.14annadanedoes any distro, actually?
06:04.03mackerel449not even the browsers?
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06:16.51Matthew_MooreHello, anybody here?
06:17.40SirLagznope
06:17.49annadaneMatthew_Moore, lots of people, go ahead
06:18.14Matthew_MooreNobody seemed to be chatting so wasen't sure.
06:18.41SirLagzMatthew_Moore: there's always people on IRC, but not always chatting until someone in here pipes up
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06:19.09Matthew_MooreI ran into an issue on Debian stretch. i'm running the deb-multimedia repo, and with a recent security update i've encountered a list of dependancy error all related to VLC.
06:19.16Matthew_MooreAnyone else have this problem?
06:20.49annadanei'm not sure how to treat such a question as debian generally recommends against using debian-multimedia, but that doesn't really help you
06:21.26annadanei'll wait for someone else to answer it
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06:22.01Matthew_MooreI am aware of that. I plan on doing a clean install and not adding the repo.  There is only two packages that i use that are in that repo that aren't in the stock repo.
06:22.03SirLagzMatthew_Moore: why did you install the deb-multimedia repo?
06:22.17Matthew_MooreI just thought i'd see if there was a quick fix first
06:22.37Matthew_MooreI added it becuase i needed a package that was not in the main repos
06:22.42SirLagzMatthew_Moore: I would remove the repo, do an apt-get update, purge all VLC related packages, then see if apt-get -u dist-upgrade works
06:22.46annadanei guess it depends on the dependency error, may be able to solve it manually
06:23.38Matthew_MooreWell, if i remove the repo, i'll just reinstall the system, Adding that repo changes many libraries when you run updates. I'm not sure exactly which ones. So i'll just reinstall clean if i remove it. Just to eliminate any problems.
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06:23.53Matthew_MooreThat's probably what i'll do.
06:24.46Matthew_MooreThere's really only maybe one or two packages that i use that come from that repo.  It's probably a far more stable option just to install the indavidual .deb package for those items.  Even though i know that's not recomended either.
06:25.00Matthew_MooreBut it's probably the lesser of two evils.
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06:25.12no_gravitySometimes my machine takes ages to wind down. Is there a way to debug what is going on?
06:25.20SirLagzMatthew_Moore: or you could just remove all the packages that were installed from deb-multimedia
06:25.29SirLagzMatthew_Moore: that would be the same as starting fresh, maybe a bit more effort though
06:25.48Matthew_MooreThe problem is, after adding that repo, it also removed some packages with the updates.
06:26.21Matthew_Moorefor Example there are some Media libraries that come with debian stable. They were all removed when i added that repo.
06:26.30SirLagzMatthew_Moore: that's fine, they can be reinstalled
06:26.59Matthew_MooreYeah. But i don't know everything that was removed. I'm afraid i might miss something.
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06:27.53Matthew_MooreFor peace of mind, i'm ok with a reinstall. I have a backup of my APT configuration from a previous installation. as long as i don't touch my home directory it should be an easy proscess.
06:28.24Matthew_MooreThen i'll just avoid the deb-multimedia repo, and see if manually installing that package is any less problematic.
06:28.31SirLagzMatthew_Moore: the 'reinstall when things break' mindset is rather counterproductive...
06:28.57annadaneeh... to each their own, honestly
06:29.01annadanepeople have reasons
06:29.03annadaneo
06:29.10annadanei'm rather fond of reinstalls personally
06:29.31Matthew_MooreIt might be counter productive. But i have nothing else to do. And i don't mind it so much. At least i know i have a clean slate to work with.
06:29.43annadanethat's basically why i do it too
06:29.45SirLagzthe only time I reinstall is when I'm testing new environments / distros...I rarely do it otherwise, no need to these days
06:30.04SirLagzMatthew_Moore: apt has a log that tells you what it's done too
06:30.14SirLagzMatthew_Moore: if you want to see exactly what was removed etc
06:30.56Matthew_MooreThat brings me to another question. On my Laptop, i'm running XFCE, i don't have many options for my TrackPad. I don't have tap to click, or disable while typing. Any of that stuff.
06:31.10Matthew_MooreWhat package am i missing?
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06:31.34annadane,v mouseemu
06:31.35juddPackage: mouseemu on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.15-9; jessie: 0.15-10; buster: 0.15-10+b1; sid: 0.15-10+b1; stretch: 0.15-10+b1
06:31.38annadanepossibly that
06:31.55Matthew_MooreOk i'll try it.
06:31.56Matthew_Moorethanks
06:32.03SirLagzMatthew_Moore: that would be a perfect question to google for too.
06:32.04annadaneotherwise i've not experience with trackpads
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06:32.23Matthew_MooreI did google it. I got a bag of mixed information. So wasen't sure.
06:32.37SirLagzMatthew_Moore: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/337008/activate-tap-to-click-on-touchpad <== that seems to cover it.
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06:32.53SirLagz5th link down when I googled it.
06:32.59annadanexfce itself may or may not have something in xfce4-goodies
06:33.27Matthew_Moorei have xfce4-goodies installed.
06:33.47annadaneit feels like every time i stop using xfce, someone has an xfce question, therefore i can't answer it :P
06:34.08SirLagzI've been using XFCE for ages lol...but I don't recall when I last used it on a laptop
06:34.21SirLagzanyways I gtg. see yas
06:37.09Matthew_MooreOne minor annoyance on my DELL, is broadcom of course.  The drivers work. But the little LED on the outside of the computer dosen't do anything. It dosen't effect usability. It's just Annoying for my OCD. LOL!!
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06:40.50Matthew_MooreRegardless Debian is still a smoother experince then Xubuntu / Ubuntu. I don't know what they did to that distro. But man is it laggy.
06:40.57Matthew_MooreI have a new slogan for them.
06:41.09Matthew_Moore"Cononical, Breaking Debain since 2004".  LOL!!!
06:41.10Unit193Matthew_Moore: Is xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed?
06:41.19Matthew_MooreYes it is.
06:41.45Unit193With that, you should have all the options in xfce4-mouse-settings
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06:42.03Matthew_MooreWell, i don't. that's why i'm asking.
06:42.23Matthew_MooreMy Dell has an ALPS trackpad. Not synaptic based. Maybe that's the issue
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06:43.07Matthew_MooreWith track-point also.
06:43.27Matthew_MooreIt's a latitiude enterprise Laptop.
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06:45.15Unit193Presuming that, and -libinput are installed, everything should just be there.  If not, then sure I'd try the other recommendation.
06:46.19Matthew_MooreWell, i have some things to try, based on what folks here have told me. So i'll work on it and see what i can come up with
06:49.43Matthew_MooreYou know what i like most about Debian?   It's you guys. :)   The debian community.   I go to Arch, Manjaro, Ubuntu, There's always some A-Hole that shows up and ruins my day.
06:49.51Matthew_MooreBut i never get that with the Debian community.
06:50.01annadaneobviously not addressed to me
06:50.08Matthew_MooreYou folks are always friendly.  :)
06:50.15annadane...yeah...
06:51.12Matthew_MooreI can handle abrasive. I'm a bit of a A-Hole myself. But there is a diffrence between being playfully sarcastic. And just being outright malicious.
06:52.07Matthew_MooreI never get that from the Debian Community.
06:53.15Matthew_MooreTo be 100% honest. Debian is NOT my favorite distro. But, the friendly community is starting to change that for me.
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06:53.24Matthew_MooreI know i'm being weird. But... i wanted to say that. :)
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06:55.57annadanei've gotten short with people sometimes and i regret it
06:56.16Matthew_MooreSo have i. But they probably deserved it. LOL!!
06:57.34Matthew_MooreThere will always be exceptions to every community.  But i have just noticed, I don't really run into those kinds of people much in this community.
06:58.07Unit193Though you may wish to note that there is also #debian-offtopic.
06:58.35annadanematthew has not met the grey cat
06:58.41annadanebut yes, there is that channel
06:58.51Matthew_MooreMeh... there's always one.
06:59.01annadane(he's usually right, though)
06:59.14Matthew_MooreBut compared to...  Lets say the Arch community. This place is rainbows and unicorns. LOL!!!   :)
07:00.00Matthew_MooreWell. It's OK to be a certain way, as long as you can back it up.
07:00.57Matthew_MoorePerfect example.  My inquiry tonight.  I said i was having issues with deb-multimedia. Instead of tearing me apart for it. What i got was. "Debian dosent remomend using that".
07:01.01Matthew_MooreOh.. ok then.
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07:01.55Matthew_MooreCompare that to the Arch community. Yeah. they're not so nice about stuff like that. LOL!!!
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07:02.14Matthew_MooreJust one example.
07:02.18annadaneUnit193, is kind of hinting we move this over to #debian-offtopic
07:02.23annadanenot to dissuade you from conversation
07:02.33Matthew_MooreI know. I'm done though.
07:02.41annadaneoops comma
07:02.46annadane(autocompletion)
07:02.58Matthew_MooreStarting to get awkward.  So i'll stop talking
07:03.20Matthew_MooreI'm running on No sleep. I tend to talk far to much when i'm dead tired. So... that's my bad. :)
07:04.06Matthew_MooreI'm waiting on Debian to finish installing so i can try all the things sugjested erlier.
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07:07.06Matthew_MooreIs there a Debian Discord? I've seen a few Linux communities adopting it.
07:07.18annadanenot really afaik
07:08.02annadanefew matrix rooms though
07:08.30Matthew_Moorehmmm...  I suppose if there was one, it would be unofficial. Knowing the position Debian has on Non-free software.
07:08.42annadanewell, certainly unofficial if anything, yes
07:08.51Matthew_MooreDiscord uses the Skype engine on the backend. So....  there's that. :/
07:09.24annadanei think it's more just that no one particularly wants to put the effort into an official discord when IRC exists and has been the standard for eons
07:10.08Matthew_MooreThat's true. It's just the popularity of IRC isn't what it used to be. And Discord is really getting popular.
07:10.25Matthew_MooreI see many communtiies starting to adopt it.
07:10.37annadanei'd still say this is more #debian-offtopic material
07:10.50annadanewhile yes no one is talking, people do like to keep the channel clear for official support
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07:11.54Matthew_MooreOk.  my installation is done now. I'm going to start working on that anyways. and try the things sugjested here about my previous issue.
07:12.02annadanegood luck. :)
07:12.22Matthew_MooreThanks. Id i come back on tonight, i'll use the offtopic channel. Unless i need more help.
07:12.36Matthew_MooreThanks for putting up with me.  :)
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09:31.40KocaneIs it retarded to run Sid on a homeserver?
09:31.51KocaneWhere stability is nice but not critical per se
09:33.00KocaneI've been trying hard to get vaapi hwacc to work on my server and the only way I can make
09:33.35Kocaneis when I update the thing fully with the unstable repository
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09:38.50wondererhi all
09:39.23wondererattempting to upgrade deb 6 to 7
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09:40.07wondererjust wondered if any one managed it before, using this guide http://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-upgrade-squeeze-to-wheezy
09:40.39wonderermy first obstacle atm is sudo is not a recognised command, even though I have sudoer access
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09:42.24wondererused usermod -aG sudo username
09:42.30wondererto add user to sudo group
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09:43.42Kelsarwonderer: if it is not recognized, maybe it is not installed?
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09:59.11wondererKelsar... i ussumed sudo was part of the os deb6 install
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09:59.23wondererassumed*
09:59.36BenNZwonderer: if it is installed , check your path
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10:04.01wondereryou mean /usr/bin/sudo ?
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10:08.47solidois the emulator from the android sdk packaged for debian?
10:09.19solidothere are lots of android-sdk packages, but i can't find the emulator in any of them.
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11:25.03alx_flysomeone familair with xrandr?
11:25.16alx_flyi couldn't find a solution to setup 3 screens as only one device
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11:26.36lordeDude, how long have you been trying to do that?
11:26.47lordeI remember you asking this same question like 3 weeks ago
11:26.52alx_flyi dont know. spend some time
11:27.09alx_flyXD
11:27.22lordeDid you try the solution with mirroring?
11:27.39lordeLook, I can do that google search again just so that you stop asking this same question
11:32.10lordealx_fly: Try this https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/multihead#Xinerama
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11:34.25MRXhello
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11:37.05alx_flyMRX: Hi
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11:38.10MRXalx_fly : what your name ?
11:38.16alx_flyalex
11:38.19alx_flywhy?
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11:39.27MRXgood name alex,what do you come from ?
11:40.14alx_flywhat is that for a question?
11:40.28lordeMRX: I suspect that he comes from a vagina, like all of us humans
11:40.39MRXwhat do you come from alex ?
11:40.40alx_flyMRX: What is your credit number?
11:41.10lordeMRX: what is your designation?
11:41.43MRXwhy ask my credit ?
11:42.02alx_flymaybe i want to buy something
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11:43.18MRXwant to buy what ?
11:43.47MRXlorde : what do you mean ?
11:43.52p0g0lorde: the Ceseareans too?
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11:44.22lordeMRX: answer me, what is your designation?
11:45.07alx_flylorde: thank you for your search. i need it dynamically with xrandr and this is incompatible with Xinerama. its a display link extender with 3 screens connected to an notebook :)
11:45.27MRXlorde :what kind of name ?
11:46.14alx_flylorde: thank you for your help
11:46.27alx_flyand hey good memory .... 3 weeks ago ;)
11:46.39lordeMRX: you must proceed to your dedicated recharging station, your neural implant must be replaced
11:46.41MRXalx_fly: what do you want from me ?
11:46.54alx_flyMRX: nothing
11:47.32lordealx_fly: are you really sure you want that on a laptop?
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11:49.05MRXlorde: I am continuing in my station, why am I here? do you forbid me?
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12:49.44jsyncHello. I'm learning bash. I'm curious, is there a way to check the Debian system to see what terminals are open?
12:50.07abrotmanX-based terminals, or vttys?
12:50.29jsyncx-terms would be cool.
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13:06.24jswiftjsync: ps uax | grep bash ?
13:08.03jswiftjsync: htop
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13:17.00jsyncjswift, cool!! How do I implement commands to identify gnome-terminal to my bash scripts?
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13:21.18jsyncFor an example, can I perform a gnome-terminal --attach-with-pid=9980?
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13:28.13limbo_attach?
13:28.40lordejsync: In my opinion, you should better go with screen launched in a graphical terminal emulator
13:29.14lordejsync: Read about GNU screen a little bit, I think that's what you really need
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13:46.21yokowkahello everysoul! with booting of debian there is such system mesage : failed to start raise network interface, can it be corrected with no failed?
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13:53.31lordeyokowka: You need to provide more detail
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13:54.24lordeyokowka: How is the interface set up? What kind of interface is it? (ethernet, wifi)
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13:57.27yokowkalorde, hello! When booting is on i have not much time to wright system mesage. debian 9 stretch, gnome 3.22.2. interface wifi amd lan sometime.
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13:59.08yokowka*and not amd
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14:00.22ubikitehi. i'm trying to build clamav package with --disable-unrar removed. is there any guide or documentation you can suggest?
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14:01.26somiaj!package recompile
14:01.26dpkg1) Add a <deb-src> line for your current release to your sources.list 2) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential devscripts fakeroot; aptitude -R build-dep packagename 3) as any user, apt-get source packagename 4) cd packagename-version/; ask me about <debian/rules>; 5) dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us 6) as root, dpkg -i ../packagename-version.deb.  Ask me about <debian/rules>, <nocheck>, <nostrip>, <apt-get source>.
14:02.10somiajat step 4 alter the debian/rules to remove that option (you may need to install the unrar libary headers too)
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14:12.52Eryn_1983_FLhi peeps
14:13.23Eryn_1983_FLso i have this issue where if i forget to put my external hdd connected to my server it wont boot up.
14:13.38Eryn_1983_FLit halts ssh from coming up at all and i have to figure out whats going on
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14:16.08Eryn_1983_FLso i am fixing the fstab issue now
14:16.32Eryn_1983_FLwondering how i can change the order of ssh in emergency mode where you do the ctrl+d to continue or put in password for root
14:16.34yokowkaSomesoul help! with booting of debian there is such system mesage : failed to start raise network interface, can it be corrected with no failed?  debian 9 stretch, gnome 3.22.2. interface wifi amd lan sometime.
14:17.02abrotmanEryn_1983_FL: are you mounting by device or UUID?
14:17.04yokowka*and lan
14:17.09Eryn_1983_FLuuid
14:17.45Eryn_1983_FLshould be in my runlevels right
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14:21.42movadhi
14:21.49movadanyone know how to upgrade nvidia-driver package?
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14:25.53Eryn_1983_FLalso this one failed
14:25.55Eryn_1983_FL● systemd-modules-load.service                                                                                 loaded failed failed    Load Kernel Modules
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14:28.35Eryn_1983_FL<PROTECTED>
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14:38.29somiajmovad: why do you want to upgrade the nvidia-driver package? Does the version in stretch not suit your needs (there is a slightly newer version in stretch-backports that you can use too)
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14:38.47movadsomiaj: i want to upgrade so i can run hashcat.
14:39.09somiajEryn_1983_FL: check /etc/modules do you have it87 listed in that file?
14:39.37somiajmovad: that is most likely not what you need, but stretch-backports will contain newer drivers. You most likely need cuda and make sure to read the docs.
14:39.53somiaj,v nvidia-kernel-dkms
14:39.55juddPackage: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 304.131-1; wheezy-backports/non-free: 340.102-1~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 340.102-1; jessie-proposed-updates/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 375.82-1~deb9u1; jessie-backports/non-free: 384.130-1~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 384.130-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 390.48-2~bpo9+3; buster/non-free: 390.48-3;
14:39.56juddsid/non-free: 390.59-1
14:40.05somiajstretch-backports has version 390.48
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14:41.04somiajbut my guess is the difference between 384.130 and 380.48 is not your issue, and I don't know the cuda drivers, but you may want the nvidia-cuda-toolkit package
14:41.40movadsomiaj: can you help me with that?
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14:43.13somiajno, read the docs
14:43.25somiajI don't really know the details, and the docs is what I would read to figure it out.
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14:58.28movadsomiaj: what docs?
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15:02.49Aebianx11 apps on my local shell are working fine when launching them. If I connect now to another host via the -X or -Y parameter they wont. Whats missing here? Npt sure what I should export as display variable because my IP (from the ISP) is not static
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15:04.48teclo-if you use -Y you should not have to set $DISPLAY
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15:08.27Aebianah I guess the problem lies within Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding.
15:08.30AebianX11 forwarding request failed on channel 0
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15:28.25movad!apt
15:28.26dpkgAdvanced Packaging Tool (APT) is a package management system used by Debian and its derivatives.  APT is a C++ library of functions that are used by several command line programs for dealing with packages, notably apt-get, apt-cache, and aptitude and, from Debian 8 "Jessie" onwards, apt.  See also <aptitude> <apt-get>, <apt-cache>, <apt myths>.
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15:51.52yokowkaSomesoul help! with booting of debian there is such system mesage : failed to start raise network interface, can it be corrected with no failed?  debian 9 stretch, gnome 3.22.2. interface wifi amd lan sometime
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15:55.23lordeyokowka: I asked you to provide details, you don't do that
15:55.49somiajcheck the /etc/network/interfaces file, that sounds like an error from the networking service
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15:59.40lordeyokowka: So, both ethernet and wifi don't work, or just one of them? What wifi and ethernet adaptors do you have?
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16:05.39OuroborosAebian: are you tunneling through ssh?
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16:36.12fooman2011Hello. I have keyboard troubles with a program when I run it through ssh. It works perfectly when it is launched directly on the machine tty, but some keyboard problems (due to SDL bug) occurs when I launch it throught ssh. Is there any way to launch this program throught ssh as if it was launched directly from the machine ?
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16:45.29Toadisattvanot sure if this is the correct place to ask but since it's debian based I'll give it a shot. Using the kali-rolling distro, my network manager shows me as connected to my network, but in order to ping or actually access the internet I have to run dhclient, is there a setting I can change or a way I can automate this process so I don't have to manually run dhclient every time I log in?
16:45.46nkuttler!kali
16:45.46dpkgKali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>.  It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian.  Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ .  Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
16:46.03Toadisattvagotcha thanks
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16:47.25dreamerhi all, little thing I never ran in to until now: how can I see what a package is a dependency _of_ ? so not it's own dependencies, but the package that depended on it
16:48.29nkuttlerdreamer: apt-cache rdepends can do that
16:48.46dreameroh thank you! I didn't even know that 'rdepends' existed <#
16:49.00dreamerI did know 'depends', but not the reverse. hah. thnx :)
16:49.14dreamer"learn something every day"
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16:50.58RmnHi People! This might be the most stupid query ever. But i am really confused at it! I finished the course after very careful study and started the labs 3 days ago, but have been unable to hack anything...The approach i follow when targeting a system to search for vulnerabilities is full nmap scans, enum4linux, dirb, nikto and stuff mentioned in the manual for enumeration and info gathering but haven't even managed to exploit any vulnerability...am i going
16:50.58Rmnwrong somewhere??
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16:51.43nkuttlerRmn: you're in #debian
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16:57.52Ouroborosfooman2011: it is just a console program?
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17:05.45AebianOuroboros: well yeah trying to
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17:06.18AebianXserver --> z-shell --> ssh connect to server --> z-shell on server
17:06.42Aebianand then I'm trying to run a gui program there
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17:09.49akdI am unable to run a shell script as user master-backup `sudo: unable to execute /root/paas/scripts/bin/backup: Permission denied`, I have permission : `-rwxr-xr-x 1 master-backup master-backup 13938 Sep 15  2017 /root/paas/scripts/bin/backup`
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17:17.16OuroborosAebian: i vaguely remember, from when i last did this 20 years ago, that in this case DISPLAY should be set to something like localhost:0, you can duckduck it
17:18.11Ouroborosor just use vnc
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17:36.05srg___Hi. I'm running Debian 9.4 with xfce. I installed the keepass2 package, but when I open keepass (via xfce's menu or via the terminal), nothing happens. There's no terminal output and a keepass window does not open.
17:36.19srg___My /etc/apt/sources.list only contains debian.org repos (no third party).
17:36.25nejeeeeewhich software can i use to write a list of things than could be re arranged alphabetically?
17:36.51srg___nejeeeee: Does the `sort` command help? `man sort`
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17:37.19nejeeeee??
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17:38.02srg___nejeeeee: It lets  you sort some input (including alphabetically)
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17:39.00srg___Regarding my keepass issue: Am I somehow missing some packages? I checked the depdencies and the recommends in aptitude for the keepass2 package
17:39.07srg___It looks ok, but I'm not sure why it's not working
17:40.01annadanenejeeeee, man means manual page, they're ways of knowing how software works, type in your terminal man sort
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17:40.38annadaneor i guess, obviously install sort if it's not installed yet otherwise you won't get a page
17:41.11annadanethey're also all on manpages.debian.org
17:41.23annadanehttps://manpages.debian.org/stretch/coreutils/sort.1.en.html
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17:44.37nejeeeeemmm
17:45.16nejeeeeei'm talking about something like libre office
17:47.15somiajthen use libreoffice calc, it can sort too. But sort can work on any text file.
17:50.25AimHereIf you're writing that text file with emacs, then M-x sort-lines will do the job...
17:51.32Aebiancan someone tell me if thats related to missing packages? https://gist.github.com/Aebian/cb08b0aaf78f1d0bad36d1e40f875d90 I have libssl-dev as well openssl
17:54.46somiajAebian: is this in debian stretch? Also it could be the version of the libary you are using, the undefined referneces makes me think that you are trying to link against a version of the libary that is not compadaible with that source. You'll have to check what the source actually requires for more info.
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17:55.29ubikiteanother question: ClamAv has a bug for RAR v5. files: https://bugzilla.clamav.net/show_bug.cgi?id=11959 any suggestion for debian packages? i'm now trying to rebuild clamav with sid sources.
17:55.45Aebianit is debian stretch yes, just trying to build https://github.com/KoffeinFlummi/armake
17:56.03Aebianworked in the past, now doesn't
17:56.06Aebianweird
17:56.38AimHereMight it be a 386 project you're trying to compile on a 64-bit system or vice versa?
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17:57.06AimHereThat might explain the include being there while the library isn't
17:58.13AebianI'm running x86_64 GNU/Linux and the program should work there hmm
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17:59.43nejeeeeei'm not sure how to do it with calc
18:01.55somiajAebian: you don't have locally install libs of different versions. Stretch also provides openssl 1.0 and 1.1, maybe you need libssl1.0-dev?
18:02.09somiajbut look at the actual source, it should tell you what versions it is compadable with.
18:02.50AimHerenejeeeee, select the columns, then Data/Sort (or Sort Ascending or Sort Descending)
18:03.07nejeeeeei'm writing some sort of enciclopedia
18:03.29AimHereBecause it's a spreadsheet, it can sort a table by the entries in one row or column, so there's plenty of options you may have to navigate
18:03.33Aebiansomiaj: I can try, I buioold the tool remote on my debian server without issues. Just the local won't do
18:03.41Aebian*built
18:03.43nejeeeeeso the format is a title with a description
18:03.48AimHerenejeeeee, start by spelling it 'encyclopedia' :)
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18:06.47Aebiansomiaj: cheers man, on my remote it wasn't required: https://i.imgur.com/8kf1Wcb.png // but after I run the apt-get command on my local one the build worked
18:07.21akdI want to connect using SSH key/pair, this is my log from the distant host : https://paste.gnome.org/pmsxqwfdo , this is the log from my host https://paste.gnome.org/phci6y4l1 , why is it failing to use key?
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18:15.12bitesakd: authorized_keys needs to be 600 not 660
18:15.34bitesakd: oh, it is. never mind, read that wrong.
18:16.09akd=[
18:16.11akdcan you help me ?
18:16.17akdI've replaced the key and that was not that
18:16.18bitesakd: should be belonging to that user, though.
18:16.22akdthey are correct
18:18.31bitesakd: is /backup/ the home of user master-backup ?  then authorized_keys should belong to that user. you also have a typo in the file name.
18:18.53bitesautorized_keys, should be authorized_keys
18:25.38melissa666Hi, I'm wondering if anyone here has had any luck installing Debian ARM64 on a Rock64 board? I am trying to do a mesh networking project, and the USB 2.0 on the Raspberry Pi means USB networking isn't feasible for anything other than small networks. But before I drop $ for a Rock64, I wanted to know if it's actually somewhat reliable/stable or if HW support is so buggy, it's not worth it?
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18:26.47melissa666Basically, I just wanna know if the hardware support is decent enough that basic stuff like networking, usb, mmc, etc is gonna work ok or if I'm going to be spending a lot of time debugging driver issues and whatnot
18:27.32melissa666I was going to use this debian ARM image: https://github.com/ayufan-rock64/linux-build/releases/tag/0.6.44 ... but would be interested in suggestions for better methods
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18:29.18RoyKmelissa666: I've used debian on a pi some years back, but these days I just stick to raspbian
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18:30.22melissa666RoyK, Yeah, I'm using Raspbian on my Pi3B+ but I don't think it will work on the Rock64 board. All the install guides I've found for Rock64 suggest using Debian ARM64
18:32.12RoyKmelissa666: then just try it - last I tried it on a pi, most things just worked
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18:33.31fooman2011Is it possible to mute a tty in bash ? I mean, I would like to do this "ioctl(tty, KDSKBMUTE, 1) && ioctl(tty, KDSKBMODE, K_OFF)"  in bash
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18:33.48melissa666RoyK, like I said, I don't want to drop the $ to "just try it" if the hardware support just isn't there ...
18:35.05melissa666and I wouldn't use raspbian anyway (just debian arm64), because the hardware is different on Rock64, and no benefit to installing rasbpi drivers, utils, etc on different board
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18:37.55RoyKmelissa666: the kernel is mostly (or exactly?) the same on raspbian as on debian - it'll probably work
18:38.08RoyKmelissa666: if it does, please tell :)
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18:39.09RoyKmelissa666: personally, I don't know, since I'vee never even seen a rock64
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18:39.33choiceHello! How do I know if I should use the 32-Bit or 64-Bit version of Debian?
18:39.54RoyKchoice: most PCs has had 64bit CPUs the last 15 years or so
18:40.16choiceRoyK: I'm not sure how old my Laptop is.
18:40.42RoyKeither find the specs of the cpu, or just try to boot the amd64 version
18:40.42*** join/#debian holmgren (magnus@h-70-93.A163.priv.bahnhof.se)
18:40.49RoyKif it works, you have a 64bit cpu
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18:43.38choiceCan I see it from 'cat /proc/cpuinfo'?
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18:43.45RoyKurd
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18:43.47RoyKerm
18:43.48RoyKyes
18:44.22RoyKchoice: pastebin output of lspu or cat /proc/cpuinfo
18:44.45choiceBetter teach me how to know if it's 32 or 64 bit.
18:44.59RoyKjust check the cpu model and google it
18:45.04choiceOk
18:45.32choiceSeems to be 64-bit :)
18:45.41RoyKmost are these days
18:45.48choiceCan I install debian with wifi drivers included these days?
18:46.00choiceI don't have a cable. So if it does not support wifi I cannot install it.
18:46.03RoyKusually it works fine
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18:46.13annadaneyou can use the non-free fimware image
18:46.16RoyKsome laptops are a bit hrd
18:46.16choiceCan I check upfront somehow?
18:46.19annadanefirmware*
18:46.23choiceannadane: But is that officially supported?
18:46.29annadanei believe so
18:46.35choiceannadane: Where is it?
18:46.38RoyKobviously depends on the chipset
18:46.46choiceRoyK: How do I check?
18:46.47annadane!non-free firmware
18:46.49annadaneerr
18:46.51annadanesigh
18:47.02RoyKchoice: what sort of laptop is this?
18:47.09choiceRoyK: A lenovo
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18:47.33RoyKprobably it's easier to try than to ask
18:47.34jgkamatusually firmware-realtek gets things working
18:47.41jgkamatfor me at least
18:47.54melissa666RoyK, I'm sure it would likely work fine to install raspbian on a rock64, because it's based on debian arm64. it would just include a lot of useless raspberry pi related firmware/utils in addition to the debian arm64 standard stuff.
18:47.58RoyKjgkamat: you may need an internet connection to install that packange, though ;)
18:48.13choiceRoyK: The download will probably take pretty long.
18:48.14jgkamatjust grab the deb and copy from another computer :P
18:48.24jgkamator use ethernet
18:48.32RoyKmelissa666: just try it
18:48.37choicejgkamat: I don't have a cable.
18:48.44RoyKchoice: lousy network connection?
18:49.03choiceRoyK: It does not feel lousy to me. It's the best I can afford.
18:49.10RoyKhow fast?
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18:49.11fooman2011Is it possible to mute (block any character output) a tty in bash ? I mean, I would like to do this "ioctl(tty, KDSKBMUTE, 1) && ioctl(tty, KDSKBMODE, K_OFF)"  in bash
18:49.11melissa666RoyK, you're repeating yourself. I already said I don't have the board, and am trying to ask someone who has experience with it how it works. You already said you don't have experience, so you have nothing to contribute.
18:49.27melissa666... I don't want to waste $ on a different board
18:49.36melissa666oops, different --> useless
18:49.37choiceRoyK: fast.com says 3.8Mbps
18:49.46RoyKmelissa666: yes, and since noone else seems to answer, I'm saying 'try it yourself'
18:49.56RoyKchoice: shouldn't take too long
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18:50.47choiceThe wifi seems to be "Ultimate N WiFi Link 5300" by Intel.
18:51.08melissa666roy, yes it was fine when you suggested "just trying it" the first time, but repeating yourself multiple times after that isn't helpful. anyways, I'll wait for someone with some experience to answer - cya
18:51.11RoyKchoice: the network install image should find the hardware if it's supported in the original kernel, and that's not very big
18:51.31RoyKmelissa666: it'll take longer than just trying it :D
18:51.39RoyKmelissa666: good luck anyway
18:52.01choiceRoyK: Ok. So I download it and do 'cat debian-9....iso /dev/sdb'?
18:52.37melissa666RoyK, you're a pretty terrible listener. I've already told you multiple times that I DON'T OWN THE BOARD YET. So "just trying it" will mean waiting for it to ship. So, no, I don't think that will take less time than asking a question on IRC. so stfu already with your "just try it" nonsense
18:52.41RoyKchoice: dd if=debian-9...iso of=/dev/thatusbthing bs=1M
18:53.06choiceRoyK: ok
18:53.16choiceWill that give me a desktop with a taskbar at the bottom?
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18:53.51RoyKmelissa666: perhaps there's someone at #debian-arm or a separte channel for that board? most chatting in here is about x86/x64
18:54.32RoyKchoice: if you install desktop, yes, but then, with that link speed, it'll probably take some time
18:55.05choiceRoyK: What I mean is: I'm afraid I will get a desktop like Ubuntu. With no real task bar.
18:55.13melissa666marvels at dense/arrogant men who feel they need to blabber endlessly on subjects they have no experience with ... and steps away from the keyboard
18:55.31RoyKchoice: debian isn't ubuntu - relax ;)
18:55.41choiceRoyK: What desktop will I get?
18:55.52RoyKiirc default is gnome 3
18:56.09RoyKunity doesn't exist outside of ubuntu
18:56.11choiceRoyK: Isn't that an Ubuntu style desktop without taskbar?
18:56.58choiceWhen I look at screenshots of Debian 9, some have a taskbard and some dont.
18:57.23choiceWhen I look at screenshots of 'Gnome 3' none has a taskbar.
18:57.37choiceIt has that Ubuntu-Style launcher on the left.
18:57.52RoyKyou can install any window manager you want
18:57.53melissa666choice, you can choose to disable the panel, or auto-hide it
18:58.05choicemelissa666: What's a panel?
18:58.22melissa666so the screenshots you're seeing could just have it auto-hidden (where it pops up on mouse over)
18:58.55melissa666choice, it's a common term for the thing at the top/bottom/side of screen with taskbars, app launchers, status icons, etc
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18:59.24choicemelissa666: I'm sceptical. I don't know how to link to google image search, but I see no taskbar anywhere.
18:59.37melissa666I was referring to when you said " When I look at screenshots of Debian 9, some have a taskbard and some dont."
18:59.45debronexcuse me guys, some way to see mac address without ifconfig package?
18:59.54choicemelissa666: Yeah, but *none* of the Gnome3 images have a taskbar.
19:00.16choiceSo I think Gnome3 is not what I want.
19:00.35RoyKthen install something else
19:00.39choiceRoyK: How?
19:00.48RoyKapt-get install …
19:00.56melissa666choice, you can install a panel in gnome3
19:00.58RoyKthen switch to whatever you'd like
19:01.17choiceI tend to think I should use a disto that comes with a taskbar right from the start.
19:01.45melissa666or you can use another desktop (I use KDE/XFCE right now, which both have panel by default)
19:01.53RoyKworked with a guy some 6 years back who insisted on using fvwm2
19:02.47choiceI checked my other computer that has a taskbar and it's Mint with Mate.
19:03.17*** join/#debian yakiza (56a4e7d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.164.231.213)
19:03.20choiceSo I know I like Mate.
19:03.26melissa666choice, yes - that's a Debian derivative (bc it's derived from Ubuntu) ... my experiences with Mint have not been good (very buggy)
19:03.32RoyKchoice: so use Mate, then
19:03.34melissa666but yes, Mate is good, and you can install on debian
19:03.40choiceHow would I install Debian 9 with Mate?
19:03.50RoyKchoice: install mate
19:03.54yakizaHello guys i have just install Debian 9 and i dont have a wireless connection in LSPCI i can only see my ethernet card, and iwconfig shows no wireless interface
19:04.00choiceRoyK: 'apt-get install mate'?
19:04.12annadaneif you want MATE you have different options depending on how much cruft you want to install
19:04.13yakizaonly ethernet card no wifi *
19:04.19RoyKiirc yes
19:04.23melissa666choice, sudo apt-get install mate-desktop
19:04.30annadanewiki.debian.org/MATE lists them
19:04.32RoyKmelissa666: thnks
19:04.44annadaneerr
19:04.48annadanenot that link sorry
19:04.55melissa666choice, actually sorry no - mate-desktop-environment
19:04.58annadanehttps://wiki.debian.org/Mate
19:05.01RoyKyakiza: if it doesn't show up in lspci, something is rather weird
19:05.04melissa666apt-get install mate-desktop-environment
19:05.17annadanebut yeah, if you want what the installer would normally install you have task-mate-desktop, but that also includes a bunch of other programs
19:05.17choicemelissa666: ok
19:05.21yakizaRoyK:  i know thats why i came here any advice?
19:05.25RoyKyakiza: does lshw show it?
19:05.32yakizaRoyK:  its an Dell inspiror 3000 series laptop
19:05.40RoyKmay be connected to usb, though
19:05.42annadanebut for general purpose sure, mate-desktop-environment works fine
19:05.48yakizaRoyK:  No only my  ethernet card
19:05.54choiceDo I copy the iso to /dev/sdb or /dev/sdb1?
19:06.17RoyKchoice: is sdb your usb stick?
19:06.18melissa666choice, after you install mate-desktop-environment, you will select it in the dropdown in gdm (the login screen)
19:06.44choiceRoyK: Yeah, I hope so :)
19:06.52RoyKsdb1 is the partition - the iso would like to sit on the drive itself
19:07.00RoyKchoice: check first ;)
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19:07.35choiceRoyK: Yes, it is.
19:07.47*** join/#debian halfbit (~tburdick@unaffiliated/submersive)
19:07.52RoyKthen use sdb, not sdb1
19:07.52*** join/#debian phaseNi (~phaset@unaffiliated/phaset)
19:08.04choiceHere we go ...
19:08.30yakizaHello guys  for some reason my lspci doesnt show my wireless card and there is no interface in iwconfig
19:08.35annadaneand then "sync" after that
19:08.40choiceannadane: What?
19:08.47annadaneonce it's done copying, type sync
19:08.53RoyKor add oconv=sync to dd
19:08.56choiceannadane: ok
19:09.12*** join/#debian Johann (~cisswit@6-8.fr)
19:09.19choiceHa, it booted!
19:09.19melissa666yakiza, what card are you using?
19:09.41*** join/#debian holden- (~holden-@unaffiliated/holden-)
19:09.47yakizaI dont know its teh default one so its intel
19:10.07RoyKis it enabled in BIOS? is chipkill disabled?
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19:10.31rtmataeu34^ if its hw disabled that might affect it
19:11.14choiceIt says no wifi :(
19:11.34choiceTalks about missing firmware iwlwifi-5000-4-ucode and some others.
19:11.43yakizaill checkbios
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19:13.00Sir_Designerchoicehttp://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
19:13.12Sir_Designerchoice http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
19:13.22choiceSir_Designer: What's that?
19:13.29Sir_Designerwhatchu need
19:13.36RoyKchoice: quite a few wifi cards need "firmware", that is, the actual driver, where the driver in the kernel is just an interface to the real driver in the "firmware"
19:13.49choiceSo what shall I do?
19:13.54RoyKand as Sir_Designer says - you may need the ndis wrapper if no such driver/firmware exists
19:14.16choicestarts downloading Mint.
19:14.18RoyKbut you *will* need an internet connection first - got any neighbors that may have a cable?
19:14.47choice1.8GB... that will take a while...
19:14.54Sir_Designeror download on smartphone
19:15.11choiceSir_Designer: Downloading is not a problem. I have another computer.
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19:15.17Sir_Designerk
19:15.54choiceMint will finish downloading in 50 minutes...
19:16.33choiceAs far as I remember, I did this dance on every new Debian release since version 5 or so.
19:16.39choiceAnd everytime it failed at this step.
19:16.51choiceSomehow I never give up the hope I will one day use Debian :)
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19:17.35Sir_Designerevery linux has its own inate and traditional brokeness.  you put in ndiswrapper and it jsut works.  shrug.
19:17.56choiceSir_Designer: I really dont want to download stuff from sourceforge.
19:18.06Sir_Designerhten get a mac.
19:18.24Sir_Designerwhat do you think sourceforge is, home of rhte aged and diseased?
19:18.27*** join/#debian nicht (~nicht@191.34.114.103)
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19:18.47choiceYup, kind of.
19:18.56Sir_Designernoted.
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19:19.16choiceThey started including malware in the downloads at some point.
19:19.44choiceThe thing changed hands a couple of times.
19:19.51choiceGod knows what they are up to these days.
19:19.51Sir_Designerif you want security, don't use linux.  too easy to abuse by scriptkiddies.  install something vetted, like openbsd.
19:20.33choiceI could move the wifi drivers over via usb another usb stick.
19:20.40choiceIf I would know where to get them.
19:20.56Sir_Designernisdwrapper provides them.  but nooooooo.
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19:21.38choiceIt might be this one: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firmware-iwlwifi
19:22.42choiceFollowing the download link leads to "firmware-iwlwifi_20161130-3_all.deb"
19:22.46choiceIs that what I need?
19:23.26Sir_Designerdude.  2016.  it's like 2 years stale.
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19:23.47choice?
19:23.56*** join/#debian Guest32107 (~Kristina@188.19.145.62)
19:23.57Guest32107Hello! I am from Kiev. Does anyone want to chat?
19:24.06Sir_DesignerKiev best city.
19:24.11choiceRoyK: Do you know if that deb is the thing I need?
19:26.02choiceHa, I gave it that deb on a stick and that got the wifi working!
19:26.10LtLchoice: my guess its what you need. look at its list of files on the website, it will probably show a similar iwlwifi* firmware mentioned in your dmesg
19:26.33LtLchoice: cheers
19:27.18choiceLtL: Yeah. It sees the access point now. But then failed at "Attempting to exchange keys with the access point".
19:28.14choiceWell, that was when I tried "wpa" or something. Now I tried "wep" and it seems to work...
19:28.28choiceNah, failed too.
19:28.34LtLchoice: wpa_supplicant comes to mind. I have no idea what you have installed
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19:28.58choiceI have no idea either.
19:29.11choiceI did not install anything.
19:29.35choiceJust plugged in a stick with "firmware-iwlwifi_20161130-3_all.deb" that I got from https://packages.debian.org/stretch/all/firmware-iwlwifi/download
19:29.41LtLchoice: this may help. https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
19:29.51Sir_Designerchoice.  youare obviously involved in massive need to educate yourself on htings wifi nder debian.  wep is so 20th century.  you are to use wpa2 personal/enterprise
19:29.53choiceStrange that it sees the access point and then fails.
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19:31.20choiceSir_Designer: Tried wpa/wpa2 again. It failed again at "Attempting to exchange keys with the access point".
19:31.45Sir_Designerdownload ndiswrapper already and quit yer fussing.
19:32.07choiceI think it's not the year of debian on the desktop yet.
19:32.39Sir_Designerit's definitely not the year of using debian brainlessly on the destop to be sure.  good luck.  no more from me.
19:33.24whislockchoice: Given that you don't know if your own network is WEP or WPA, I'd probably stop to figure out basic wifi concepts before blaming the OS.
19:34.19choicewhislock: I'm not blaming. I just don't know how to progress with Debian from here.
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19:35.09choiceIt asked me to provide certain iwlwifi... files. I did my best to get them. Now I don't know what else to do.
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19:35.18LtLchoice: you have wifi, now configure it
19:35.51choiceMaybe I got the password wrong...
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19:37.32choiceBut I don't think so.
19:37.40choiceOh!
19:37.45choiceI got it workin!
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19:37.56choiceI tried the pw for the admin account.
19:38.06choiceBut the wifi pw is different.
19:38.34Ouroborosdoes 'ifdown -a' bring down lo, and if so can that break anything?
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19:39.19diverdudehi, how do i install qt from repo so that i can run programs which are dependent on qt?
19:39.20Ouroboros(i know that lo is specially configured regardless of what is in /e/n/i)
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19:45.42Ouroborosdiverdude: 'apt-cache search qt' then 'apt-get install <whichever package>'
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19:46.04diverdudeOuroboros: yes but which package has qt binaries
19:46.15somiajdiverdude: usually you instal the app you want from the repo and it pulls in what it needs. If you have some random app that depends on qt, you need to ensure debian provides the right version of the libaries
19:47.28Ouroborosdiverdude: 'apt-file search <whichever file>'
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19:51.01diverdudeok it seems that qt has to be downloaded from qt website, but they provide a .run file : qt-unified-linux-x86-2.0.5-2-online.run     How do i run such a file?
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19:51.39annadaneno, you shouldn't download it, stretch probably has what you want
19:51.51diverdudeannadane: me?
19:51.54annadaneyes
19:52.14diverdudeannadane: but i cannot find the qt binaries in the repo
19:53.04diverdudeannadane: do you know what to install?
19:53.19annadanesomeone actually asked about this on OFTC before and answered their own question "ok, i _think_ i figured it out.  qtbase5-dev is the "base" package i need, and then i install suggested and recommended as required from there on"
19:53.21somiajdiverdude: qt is libaries, not binaries. What app are you trying to install and why not get something from inside the debian repo.
19:53.42annadanebut dev is obviously dev package
19:53.55annadanebut yeah, anything you need that depends on qt will pull in qt if it's a dependency
19:54.02annadaneor in Recommends
19:54.35diverdudeannadane: these binaries: http://www.ids-imaging.com/go/edmund/ requires qt, but i dont know how to install qt basically
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19:56.16somiajwhat binaries, there are various things on that page. Did you read the instructions from this third party about what is actually required.
19:56.57somiajthere should be some install instructions, if not maybe contact their support to see what qt libaries you ened specifically.
19:57.11*** join/#debian Johann (~cisswit@6-8.fr)
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19:57.48diverdudeThis one: http://en.ids-imaging.com/tl_files/downloads/uEye_SDK/driver/edmund/49006_Linux_all.tgz   And yes, i read the README, it says :
19:57.51diverdude"If you want to have a graphical environment by using tools like the IDS Camera Manager or the uEye Demo application, you need to install the Qt framework (min. v4.5.2)"
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19:59.07diverdudeand this is why my question is "How on earth do i install QT?"
19:59.20choiceThe wifi drivers I provided during the installation, will they be updated by apt-get update / apt-get upgrade or will they be stalled forever?
19:59.43somiajchoice: what do you mean by provided? And do you mean firmware (not drivers)?
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20:00.19choicesomiaj: During installation Debian said no wifi because some iwififiwifiwi files are missing and that I can provide them on a stick.
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20:00.28diverdudeanyone?
20:00.45choicesomiaj: So I searched for them on debian.org and put the deb file with them on a stick and plugged that one into the computer I was installing debian on.
20:00.46somiajchoice: that is just firmware, did you provided it during the install, or do you want to install them now after the install?
20:01.02choicesomiaj: Debian then was happy and wifi worked.
20:01.13somiajchoice: in that case they should still be there, dpkg -l | grep firmware-iwlwifi, if not you can just install the firmware-iwlwifi package from non-free
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20:01.35choicesomiaj: Now I wonder if they will be constantly updated like all other software. I guess not because they were not installed from a repo.
20:01.44somiajdiverdude: there isn't just a single qt package that I know of, qt is a very large set of libaries, you may want to track down better info.
20:01.49*** join/#debian al_ (~al@net-37-119-245-141.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
20:01.55somiajchoice: install the firmware-iwlwifi package and they will be
20:02.08choicesomiaj: Ok. I will do that when the installation finished.
20:02.55*** join/#debian Kappa_ (~Kappa_42@AStLambert-681-1-8-75.w90-86.abo.wanadoo.fr)
20:03.19somiajdiverdude: but you were given one answer, qtbase5-dev (provided that will work with qt5)
20:03.53Ouroborosdiverdude: or just run the program, see what library it wants when it fails, install that
20:04.02Ouroborosor during compilation, whichever
20:04.06somiajdiverdude: that will of course install awy more than you problably need, so it would be better to actually nkow what qt libaries that piece of software uses.
20:04.45diverdudeapt-file search libQtNetwork.so.4 does not work
20:04.53diverdudeit says command not found
20:04.58somiajwell then isntall apt-file
20:05.32Ouroboros'apt-file search apt-file' :P
20:05.42diverdudehaha
20:05.43diverdude:D
20:05.54diverdudegood humor - i like it
20:06.14Ouroborosthere is a solution for everything :P
20:06.18*** join/#debian mahafyi (~chatzilla@2402:3a80:451:f91e:ab28:399a:f721:179e)
20:06.34annadanethere may also just be qtbase5 by itself
20:06.50annadanebut yeah as somiaj said qt is a large number of packages...
20:07.10*** join/#debian Ingvix (~Ingvix@185.217.171.47)
20:07.57diverdudehmmmm i get this from apt-file searach: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8rMy8Mg5QM/    Does that mean that qt is already installed?
20:08.15mahafyihello, i installed gnome debian 9 stable, and thereafter installed and removed lxde. i now use xfce with gdm3, so just make the choice at the login screen. I have two issues however, 'Lock Screen' does not come back on whatever i try in keyboard and mouse and i have to use power button. This is not problem if i use gnome.
20:08.28*** join/#debian krukudilo (~krukudilo@gateway/tor-sasl/kurkudilo)
20:09.13somiajdiverdude: apt-file only lists the packages that contain that file, now you know what package to install (it may or may not be installed already)
20:09.29*** join/#debian Johann (~cisswit@6-8.fr)
20:09.53diverdudesomiaj: ahhh libqt4-network?
20:09.59annadaneyou are using debian and not ubuntu, right?
20:10.21diverdudeannadane: yes, its debian
20:10.41diverdudea bit outdated version of debian
20:10.54annadaneer... which version?
20:11.12somiajlibqt4-network is in stretch
20:11.48diverdudeahhhh yes it works now :)
20:11.51diverdudethaaaanks mates
20:11.59annadane!next
20:11.59dpkgAnother happy customer leaves the building.
20:12.12choiceOk, the installation finished. But now I dont have internet.
20:12.16choiceHow do I activate it?
20:12.46somiajchoice: first run 'ip a' -- do you see your wireless card there, or do you need to install the firmware still?
20:13.06choicesomiaj: I see it.
20:13.16somiajdo you have a desktop installed?
20:13.34choicesomiaj: No
20:14.01somiajchoice: you can configure your network in /etc/network/interfaces, the wiki has instructions for this
20:14.13somiajI'm surprised the isntaller didn't just put the info there already, check that file
20:14.19*** join/#debian ntd (~ntd@gateway/tor-sasl/ntd)
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20:15.09annadanediverdude, anyway, general principle is you shouldn't install packages from the internet, stick to the repository as much as possible (and don't mix in testing/sid packages with your debian stable)
20:15.12choicesomiaj: Nothing about wifi in there. It sources /etc/network/interfaces.d/* though.
20:15.14*** join/#debian RedSoxFan07 (~Thunderbi@32.212.74.4)
20:15.25annadane(there are exceptions as with anything, but...)
20:15.36choiceWhich is empty though.
20:15.40somiajchoice: you could see if there is a file in /etc/network/interfaces.d, but okay
20:15.49somiajchoice: anyways, there are various ways to go about this, one is just put the info there
20:17.21choiceWhat info?
20:18.26somiajhttp://paste.debian.net/1029510/ for a simple case
20:18.38somiajreplace wlan0 with the actual name of the interface (it is different with predicitable interfaces)
20:19.13*** join/#debian enki (~enki@dynamic-78-30-165-161.adsl.eunet.rs)
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20:19.20somiajafter you edit that file, then ifup wlan0 (with proper name). Also that file is readable by anyone, you may want to chmod 600 it, or use another emthod, such as wpa_supplicant for this
20:19.22choiceOk.. let me try that.
20:19.57*** part/#debian jsync (~jason@2600:8803:e600:3ad0:e910:5684:4ee6:b064)
20:20.31*** join/#debian hgfd123 (~hgfd123@51.253.127.217)
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20:23.29choice"No DHCPOFFERS received"
20:23.38choiceLooks like it somehow did not work.
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20:23.46*** join/#debian hgfd123 (~hgfd123@51.253.127.217)
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20:24.43somiajchoice: dpkg -l | grep firmware (check that the firmware was loaded for iwlwifi)
20:24.53*** join/#debian Johann (~cisswit@6-8.fr)
20:25.13choicesomiaj: It outputs some iwlwifi thing.
20:25.21somiajbut does it say if the firmware was loaded or not?
20:25.38choicesomiaj: I don't see the word "loaded".
20:25.44*** join/#debian soee (~soee@bik120.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
20:25.49somiajwell usually it says failed if it didn't work
20:25.58*** join/#debian CaptainN (zelda@107.147.186.107)
20:25.58*** join/#debian CaptainN (zelda@unaffiliated/captainn)
20:25.59choicesomiaj: I don't see the word "failed".
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20:27.26somiajyou could try wpasupllicant, check out /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/ there are some README's and example configs there
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20:28.09mosomedvehi
20:28.57choicesomiaj: I think I will just install Mint.
20:29.54somiajyour choice, I don't know why that didn't work, but I use wpasupplicant myself to configure my intel wifi
20:30.00mosomedveis here anybody with an advanced acpi knowledge?
20:30.22annadanemosomedve, best just ask your question
20:30.23annadane!anyone
20:30.24dpkgPlease do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'.  Instead, ask your real question.  (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.)  See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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20:32.01choicesomiaj: Ha! I had a typo in the ssid name!
20:32.13choiceI got internet now!
20:32.18annadane\o/
20:32.26choiceNow lets install Mate...
20:32.33annadane<PROTECTED>
20:32.39annadaneoh mate
20:32.42annadanemisread as mint
20:32.56annadaneit's mid-afternoon, i have no excuses
20:33.03*** join/#debian mtn (~mtn@unaffiliated/mtn)
20:33.19choiceannadane: I downloaded Mint too. Just in case I don't get Debian working.
20:33.46choiceBut right now I did 'apt-get install mate-desktop-environment' on my Debian install.
20:33.58annadaneit's decent
20:34.03choiceI have the feeling it will work :)
20:34.26choiceFrickin 1.2GB ... does it come with Office and all that stuff?
20:34.41annadaneyou can apt show mate-desktop-environment to see what it comes with
20:34.51choicesomehow has the feeling he should have researched if there is some kind of light-version of mate.
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20:35.19annadanethere is, it's in the wiki
20:35.20choiceBut now it's installing already :)
20:35.25annadanei think it's mate-desktop-environment-core
20:35.39choiceWell, its getting files... I guess I can still CTRL+C it?
20:35.41mosomedvesorry, so I'have bought a new Acer notebook and the kernel 4.15-17 doesn't load on it without noacpi parameter. It's okay with noacpi but it produces more heat than on Win10, do you know any workaround solution for this without patching the kernel?
20:35.54annadanenah, best to just let it install
20:36.02choiceCTRL+c ed it :)
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20:36.24choiceNow going for mate-desktop-environment-core.
20:36.36choiceStill over 800 MB ...
20:36.51choiceIs there mate-desktop-environment-core-core?
20:37.07choiceWhat do developers do with all that memory these days?
20:37.08annadanethe window manager for it is marco, i guess one could apt install marco, though i've never done that
20:37.24choice64kb ought to be enough for everything.
20:40.03choiceWhat if "flush" is not installed? Install it? Or is there something similar?
20:40.27annadaneno idea
20:41.32somiajchoice: if you don't want a full DE use a windowmanager and then install the softawre you actually use.
20:42.09choicesomiaj: What window manager does Mate use?
20:42.27choicesomiaj: The machine is already installing Mate, so I'd better not interrupt it now.
20:42.32annadanei said, it's marco
20:42.46somiajchoice: not sure, but debian proivdes many window managers to choose from.
20:42.46choiceOk
20:43.02choiceI'm going with mate-desktop-environment-core now.
20:44.12somiajmate is basically gnome2, so if you wanted a smaller DE, lxde is about as small as you can get, xfce isnt' to big either.
20:45.33choiceDo they have a taskbar at the bottom?
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20:45.41*** join/#debian tomboy64 (~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64)
20:45.48somiajxfce you can put it wherever you want, lxde ahs bottom at start
20:45.50somiajxfce at top
20:45.56somiajlots of choice and things are configurable
20:47.15choiceI rebooted but Mate did not start.
20:47.17choiceWhat do I do now?
20:47.27*** join/#debian Johann (~cisswit@6-8.fr)
20:47.30somiajsurprised a de didn't get installed
20:47.34somiajcan you just run 'startx'
20:47.38mahafyixfce is superb! i am using it for first time. but to repeat, i am not able to wake from kb/mouse on 'Lock Screen'. Also, IDK how to get the tap on touchpad to work.
20:47.51mosomedvexfce is the best if not used with hdpi display
20:48.03annadanechoice, apt install xinit
20:48.13annadaneif startx doesn't work
20:48.46annadaneor install something like lightdm but seeing as how you don't like cruft/large space required of packages ...
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20:49.11choicestarx results in "startx: command not found".
20:49.21annadaneeven after installing xinit?
20:49.36choicebefore
20:49.50annadaneif you're going to install xinit though do log out of root before you startx
20:49.51somiajthat is strange, I'm surprised the mate core metapckage didn't pull all that stuff in
20:49.55annadaneno, it doesn't
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20:50.24choicexinit is another 30MB.
20:50.26somiajso mate core doens't pull in enough stuff to run the DE? might just want to install the full metapackage then
20:50.31choiceI really wonder how you can fill 30MB with code.
20:50.36choiceIt seems pretty impossible.
20:50.42annadaneeven mate-desktop-environment proper doesn't
20:50.48annadanei don't know about mate-desktop-environment-extras
20:50.55annadaneand no, it does run the DE
20:51.05somiajchoice: the linux kernel is way over that in code
20:51.06annadaneit just doesn't enable you to use startx immediately
20:51.42somiajannadane: ahh, I dno't use mate, but woudln't you need xinit to run a display manager, or does one need to install the full task?
20:51.45annadaneare you really starved for space?
20:52.03choiceNot at all. Im just curious.
20:52.09annadanewell the task would pull in lightdm i think
20:52.13choiceOk, so after installinx xinit, startx worked.
20:52.14annadaneif you installed task-mate-desktop
20:52.28choiceHow do I make it so that it starts right after booting?
20:52.31annadaneand lightdm depends on xorg which probably also depends on xinit
20:52.35somiajchoice: the linux kernel source code is about 1GB, so 30MB is fairly quick to eat up these days.
20:52.43annadanechoice, install a display manager, like lightdm
20:52.44somiajchoice: install a display manager
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20:53.12choicesomiaj: But I did not install source code. I installed something binary I think.
20:53.13somiajseems the git archive of linux is like 7GB.
20:53.31choicesomiaj: Also, I did not install Linux but xinit. Some thing that starts another thing.
20:53.40somiajchoice: sure, but you said it seemed fairly impossible to fill 30MB with code, and it isn't at all.
20:54.04choicesomiaj: Well, it also seems fairly impossible to go to the moon. Yet it has been done.
20:54.32choiceSo I should do "apt install lightdm"?
20:54.46somiajthat is the common choice of light display managers tehse days, and sounds like you want one, so yes.
20:55.01*** part/#debian arjovr_ (~sjf@190.247.62.66)
20:55.16annadanerealistically if you want it to "start automatically" fully you can configure it to start without a password but that's kind of a security precaution i'd rather not do without
20:55.25choiceIts strange that I need a 'manager' just to do 'startx' for me on startup.
20:55.42choiceCan't I just put 'startx' in some init script?
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20:55.48annadanesee my post above
20:56.02choiceI don't care about security on that level.
20:56.12annadanethat, i don't have experience with
20:56.19annadaneso i don't know, maybe someone does
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20:56.42choiceI installed Debian into an encrypted partition. When it runs, it runs. No security from then on :)
20:56.47somiajchoice: sure install nodm, it will do that for you
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20:57.06choicesomiaj: Why not just put 'startx' in some script?
20:57.09somiajI use just startx and a minimial window manager myself
20:57.22somiajthe script also needs to log you in and do some other stuff, nodm deals with this
20:57.35somiajInstalled-Size: 120 kB -- it is a small package
20:57.47choiceHaha 120000 bytes to type 'startx' :)
20:57.56*** join/#debian Repate15 (822bdc10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.43.220.16)
20:57.56somiajit does more than that
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20:58.15annadaneyou're not asking about startx, you're talking about logging in without a password
20:58.18somiajif you care about space don't use a DE, but things take up space
20:58.27somiajor look up how to do this yourself, it is possible
20:58.28ikanoboriyou can just put startx in your bash profile
20:58.35ikanoboripreferably with a check if you have a DISPLAY set
20:58.48somiajthough that won't work on boot, just once you login
20:58.49ikanoboribut you're going to have to type a bit more than startx (you'll probably want to write your .xinitrc as well)
20:58.56ikanoborino, just when you login
20:59.04annadanelightdm doesn't even really save you time, they both "startx"
20:59.11choiceOk, installing nodm. 120000 bytes to log in a user and startx :)
20:59.23ikanoboribut you can turn on autologin if you're so inclined
20:59.25annadanethough lightdm does enable selection between different desktops/wm's
20:59.46somiajchoice: all debian packages contain other stuff besides just the thing that does what you want, there are docs, changelogs, readme, this all takes up space.
21:00.07choicesomiaj: I see.
21:00.09somiajhttps://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/nodm/filelist
21:00.15choiceHow do I tell nodm which user to log in?
21:00.15*** join/#debian john__ (~john@184-23-26-171.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com)
21:00.28annadanehave you tried looking at the man page?
21:00.29somiajread the docs in /usr/share/doc/nodm/README
21:00.34annadaneor that
21:00.35somiajread the docs in /usr/share/doc/nodm 00
21:01.28choice00?
21:01.47somiajtypo, I meant to say read the various files in that directory
21:02.12*** join/#debian nobodi (~nobodi@modemcable142.127-177-173.mc.videotron.ca)
21:03.09choiceThey talk about environment variables, preseeding, debconf...
21:04.00choiceI can't make sense out of it.
21:05.04choiceLet's see what happens when I restart...
21:05.16*** join/#debian Nekojimi (~jimj316@ohrid.filection.com)
21:05.33Ouroborosso can temporarily bringing down lo cause any major issues?
21:05.35*** join/#debian cadillac_ (~omab@r179-28-188-55.dialup.mobile.ancel.net.uy)
21:05.41ikanoboriyes
21:06.20ikanoboriwell major as in your system might become unstable for a bit
21:06.28choiceHa, it started Mate! Started it as root though.
21:06.29*** join/#debian sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr)
21:06.48Ouroborosthat's not so major :P
21:06.59choiceI guess they have read https://xkcd.com/1200/
21:07.40annadaneyeah, don't start mate as root
21:07.58choiceannadane: I did not start it. nodm did.
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21:08.33Ouroborosikanobori: i need to test 'ifdown -a' and 'ifup -a', but i do not see a clean way to make them leave alone lo
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21:09.51Ouroborosperhaps commenting out lo in /e/n/i and using --no-loopback, but i am unclear about how it all works
21:10.08ikanoboriOuroboros: ifdown -a won't turn off your loopback device
21:10.11somiajOuroboros: dropping lo won't matter if you quickly get it back up.
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21:10.25ikanoborior does it? mrm
21:10.30somiajOuroboros: so if it does drop it, ifup lo, but as ikanobori said, it might not bring it down.
21:10.35Ouroborosikanobori: i am not sure, lo has some special handling
21:10.37ikanoboriseems like it does :)
21:10.40*** join/#debian wyre (wyre@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-ndefwwcaixecqyao)
21:10.42ikanobori(i just tested it)
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21:11.08somiajOuroboros: it is more lo = 127.0.0.1 and there are various things that use that, but if it is down it won't break things permtantally, just bring it back up
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21:11.26ikanoboriyep, there might be some dbus stuff listening on it for your systemd or such
21:11.33ikanoborior other daemons
21:11.39Ouroboroswhat systemd :P
21:11.55somiajOuroboros: what is your overall goal, why are you needing to run ifdown -a
21:11.57FinalXwhich will probably exit with an error if you bring lo down which takes 127.0.0.1 and ::1 down with it
21:12.03FinalXlo is not supposed to be brought down :p
21:12.10choiceHa, there is /etc/default/nodm that contains some settings!
21:12.19Ouroborossomiaj: just testing my /e/n/i
21:12.32somiajOuroboros: so why ifdown -a, and not ifdown interface name
21:12.46FinalXthough honestly, systemd itself concerned: it's mostly systemd-resolved
21:12.46somiajyou can test these per inteface, dn't have to do them all
21:12.53FinalXdbus is a socket iirc
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21:13.11Ouroborossomiaj: because i need to check whether 'ifdown -a' applies to the specific interface
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21:13.31donkey_boyhi everyone!
21:13.34ikanoboriOuroboros: It's probably easier to determine that by listing all the 'auto' interfaces, which is the same that ifdown/up do.
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21:13.43donkey_boyis racism allowed on this channel?
21:13.47Ouroborossomiaj: or it may work differently for '-a' vs for specific interface, there have been some changes to this
21:14.17choicedonkey_boy: !ask
21:14.33somiajOuroboros: -a : If given to ifdown, affect all defined interfaces. I don't see what you need to test, it just brings them all down, and you can test them indvidually
21:15.11Ouroborossomiaj: i am unclear about exactly what it does for interfaces marked as both 'auto' and 'manual'
21:15.16*** join/#debian Johann (~cisswit@6-8.fr)
21:15.36somiajOuroboros: auto and manual are different. And it brings down 'all defined interfaces' that is fairly clear
21:16.04choiceOk, thanks everybody! Debian 9 is running with Mate as a normal user and it has internet and all is fine!
21:16.11somiajdonkey_boy: https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
21:16.12Ouroborosi don't think it is clear at all :P
21:16.17choiceNow I can go to sleep :)
21:16.31somiajOuroboros: what about all defined interfaces (in the itnerfaces) file is not clear.
21:17.51Ouroborossomiaj: because it possibly does something special for 'manual' interfaces, and this has changed several times and is poorly documented
21:18.03Ouroborosanyway, i am just going to try it
21:18.04somiajOuroboros: what is a manual interface?
21:18.27Ouroborossomiaj: e.g. auto eth0; iface eth0 inet manual
21:18.46donkey_boyburn all jews in oven
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21:18.48donkey_boydeath to infidels
21:18.50somiajOuroboros: yea auto and manual are not the relatable thigns. And in this case, it is a defined inteface
21:18.50donkey_boysieg heil
21:18.53*** mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ
21:18.53*** mode/#debian [+b *!*@dsl-hkibng32-54fb54-126.dhcp.inet.fi] by somiaj
21:18.53*** kick/#debian [donkey_boy!~jaimos@unaffiliated/somiaj] by somiaj (you should know better)
21:18.53*** mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj
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21:19.18somiajOuroboros: if it doesn't bring down a manual inteface (which it should) report a bug to clarify the man page
21:21.17Ouroborossomiaj: yes, but there are more details about e.g. whether it will set link down, this was all discussed in several bugs, but i am unclear as to what the outcome was
21:21.44lembronhi, is there any degration-on-purpose on jessie-APT mirrors or so :D ? - the exact same buildscript takes 35 minutes on jessie - and 4 minutes on stretch -- while pretty much installing all the same packages --- those times are repeatable too, both using http://deb.debian repos
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21:21.58somiajOuroboros: the -a flag has little to do with this on my understanding. ifdown interfacename should also have those same issues.
21:22.25Ouroborossomiaj: yeah, that is the part which is unclear
21:22.27lembrongone over it step by step to, and its just "generally slower" :/
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21:22.45Ouroborosbecause 'ifdown eth0' does in fact set link down
21:23.06somiajOuroboros: I dn't see how it is unclear, all -a does is bring down the intrafaces one at a time in the order they are listed, while ifdown foo brings down a specificed interface.
21:23.25somiajbut try it, you wno't do any permant harm bringing down lo
21:24.03somiajlembron: deb.debian.org is just a redirector, it could be redirecting you to different mirrors.
21:24.15Ouroborossomiaj: (actually, it brings down only the interfaces that are up and in the order that they are in the state file not in /e/n/i, according to the manpage)
21:24.20somiajlembron: On my one jessie vm, I haven't noticed any difference.
21:24.29Ouroborosdeb.debian.org is a cdn, i believe
21:25.37Ouroborosperhaps there are fewer jessie mirrors there?
21:26.06somiajmight be that not everyone wants to mirror lts, but it could be just some coicidence
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21:26.18somiajlembron: maybe try a specific mirror isntead of the redirector
21:27.16Ouroborosbut isn't the mirror selected by dns before the repo is ever specified? or does this cdn work differently
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21:27.51somiajOuroboros: this is not a roundrobbin like the old one, it will figure out what it thinks the best mirror is for the setup
21:27.54somiaj!deb.debian.org
21:27.55dpkgdeb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See http://deb.debian.org/ for more details.
21:28.26Ouroborosok, much more complex
21:28.43somiajthough it could be that jessie's apt (as in that factoid) gets a different reidrect
21:28.50somiajsince it doesn't support the SRV records
21:29.21somiajso the newer features are only avaiable to stretch onward, which could partly explain a difference in jessie
21:29.59lembroncan i output "what is used" anyhow? - and looking over my apt-calls, im not getting over 200kB/s it seems
21:30.39lembronstretch meanwhile not one call under 1k kB/s, most 5k+ if its more than a MB total
21:30.47Ouroboroselse you can just use the old style mirrors like ftp.*.debian.org
21:30.51somiajagain, on the jessie machine, try a specific mirror
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21:44.49lembronhm the mentioned workaround of using http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian directly doesnt make a diffrence :/ nor does the mirror that literally sits in my city...
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21:46.37jsyncHello. I'm learning bash & I think I ran into a dead end. I'm curious, what sort of programming language could allow me to open a screen session, enter particular commands, & when the affected software was affected, close the screen session & then return to my bash bundle of scripts?
21:47.33jsyncI want to make a text based ui for a server software.
21:48.29jsyncI'd like to give that ui & graphic front eventually, though I want to learn bash & become more familiar with my debian system.
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21:50.49lembronare we talking of screen session as in /usr/bin/screen? or as in DISPLAY0? ;D jsync - and general meta with bash is "not more than 100lines", bash is scripting, not programming (*tbd)
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21:53.44friend_of_candyhi
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21:59.25wranything better than remmina on debian?
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22:00.59jsynclembron, maybe I want to make a server that controls various other servers. What would I use for that?
22:01.51jsyncSee, I made bash scripts that reference configuration files that list my OpenSim servers & their ssh connection data & various other things. I definitely need to consolidate all these terminals & program processes & commands.
22:01.54*** join/#debian lilabsence (~RizzoTheR@host-091-097-098-108.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
22:02.32jsyncLike, "A Single Server to Rule Them All" sort of thing.
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22:02.58lembronpuppet/chef/ansible/salt - to just name a few?
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22:04.19jsyncA server that I could use to enter a command like, "ls GRID_REGIONS" & it would give me a text based list, & then I could enter a command to control that particular listed Region, then that entered a screen session & I'd be looking at that server terminal - that would be alright & neat to learn how to do.
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22:19.26Ouroborossomiaj: wow, so for 'ifdown -a' they special-cased to not set link down for inet but not for inet6, what a mess
22:19.55Ouroborosi don't know why i care though, it makes absolutely no difference to me
22:23.19lordejsync: you should better go with CM system. I'd recommend ansible, it's pretty straight-forward and requires virtually no configuration on client side
22:24.06lordejsync: you'd still be able to do your "ls GRID_REGIONS" kind of command, and then you'll be able to ssh into that machine
22:25.01jsync"CM system"?
22:25.10jsyncI want to code something.
22:25.16lordejsync: why do you need screen sessions? As a person with quite extensive bash background, I suggest you don't use bash for some massive program - it eventually becomes impossible to debug and maintain
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22:25.31lordejsync: configuration management
22:25.48lordejsync: you'll get your fair share of coding there, don't worry
22:25.58jsyncUhh, alright: A Brief Synopsis.
22:26.22lordejsync: you want me to tell you what Ansible is or?
22:26.32jsyncI have OpenSim Servers that run a Grid full of Region Servers. There are a lot of them & they all require a terminal.
22:26.43jsynclorde, I overlooked that part. I'll read about it.
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22:27.35Ouroborosthis all sounds way over-complicated
22:27.42lordeAgreed
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22:28.28jsyncI don't want a different linux distro. I want to code a server that acts like a text based ui for other servers.
22:29.12megaTherionjsync: that stuff is existing already, its more or less called vnc
22:29.17megaTherionwell not only vnc, but thats one way to do it ;)
22:29.25jsyncA single server that's configured with lists of other server software locations.
22:30.43lordejsync: Ansible is what you're looking for. Trust me, you don't want a massive bash program with remote code execution
22:30.46megaTherionjsync: bash isnt the right thing, but any other more fully fledged scripting language can do it ... however if you want to access all internals then you'll need to go towards C or kind of
22:31.06megaTherionjsync: you can access a lot of libraries by `bridging` or bindings but they all have certain limitations
22:31.06lordejsync: I actually have to deal with this sh*t at work, and won't wish that for my enemies
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22:31.44megaTherionjsync: most likely you can combine things like having a backend, a frontend and what not which can all be different languages - depends which language suits best for certain tasks
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22:32.32jsyncAlright: I want to code this, for myself. VNC is not what I'm looking for. That's not even what I'm trying to do.
22:32.48jsyncAlright: Here's a brief synopsis of program necessity.
22:33.16jsyncI have various server programs within a machine, & they could variably be spread across numerous machines.
22:33.17megaTherionjsync: well it lets you connect to a server and do something... ;)
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22:33.51megaTherionya no need to elaborate all, I think its kind off topic for this particular channel and really a huge topic
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22:34.55jsyncI want to create a custom & specific server to control those specific servers. The server I code should simply act like a terminal text based ui that starts screen sessions & opens control to those other servers, though with simple & easily understood commands, like a terminal text based ui.
22:35.21megaTherionterminal text based ui, sounds like ncurses
22:36.04megaTherionya you can do that, you can start multiple X11 servers just like you want no problem
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22:38.49Aebiancan someone tell me whats wrong with this command? ``tar -xvf OTDS-1641-LNX6.tar -c /online/iww/corp.knight-industries.org/otds-install/``
22:39.23megaTherionAebian: -c should be -C?
22:39.24lordeAebian: the '-c' flag
22:39.40Aebianah lol yes, thanks
22:40.26lordejsync: so you want UI specifically? Something reminiscent of  mc and such?
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22:42.55expert975I'm planning on setting up LVM on LUKS on RAID. Any tips?
22:43.05megaTherionexpert975: dont
22:43.12megaTherionLVM is so 90s
22:43.13Ouroboros^^ this
22:43.24lordeI don't agree
22:43.28megaTherionthat its not 1990
22:43.29megaTherion?
22:43.36lordeI'd go for LUKS on LVM instead
22:43.50megaTherionI'd just use anything else except LVM
22:43.59lordeWhy? LVM is great
22:44.00Ouroboroshe meant, 'i don't agree, lvm is so 80s' :P
22:44.07jsyncMaybe I want to learn ncurses. Thanks, megaTherion.
22:44.08megaTheriongreat for people stuck to the 90s
22:44.19megaTherionok 80s, fine ;)
22:44.33Ouroborosi never understood the use case for lvm, even back then
22:44.46lordeSo, what do the cool kids use nowadays?
22:44.56megaTherionwell I think there were good reasons but LVM didnt evolve much and its kind of .... awkward
22:44.58Ouroborosbut i have seen one million reports of people breaking their lvm somehow
22:45.06megaTherionthe setup is awkward, the management is awkward, the CLI is awkward - just everything
22:45.16megaTherionlorde: probably ZFS since 2006
22:45.32lordeWell, you chose a wrong OS for that, I'm afraid
22:45.35megaTherionOuroboros: I liked evms for a while, it seemed to be a great alternative but somehow it was discarded
22:45.41megaTherionlorde: indeed
22:46.03Ouroboroslorde: zfs or just don't do whatever you were going to do
22:46.09megaTherionexacly
22:46.29lordeYou two are weird
22:46.57megaTherionlorde: you really would chose LVM on a setup today?
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22:47.11Ouroborosi try not to use a feature just because it happens to exist :P
22:47.13lordemegaTherion: yes, I have, and I would
22:47.41megaTherionlorde: why so?
22:47.51lordemegaTherion: it's rock-solid and very straight-forward, and flexible too, why would I not use it?
22:48.14megaTherionI guess it is solid, but absolutly not straight forward at least not to me
22:48.22Ouroboroslorde: so what is one example use case?
22:48.43megaTherionand I think the thin snapshots were somehow limited too? Im not so fond of it
22:48.44lordeOuroboros: backups using snapshots
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22:49.06lordeOuroboros: not caring about which sizes of your hard drives
22:49.09megaTherionsnapshots are quite expensive on LVM?
22:49.29lordeOuroboros: the ability to use it as a storage driver for KVM
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22:49.44Ouroborosok, stop :P
22:50.14lordemegaTherion: haven't used snapshots in very IO-intensive environment, can't say
22:50.22Ouroborosjust install zfs on top of ceph on top of zfs, done
22:50.38Ouroborosadd aditional layers of zfs and ceph as necessary
22:51.06lordeOuroboros: yeah, that setup is so much more straight-forward, for sure
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22:51.41lordeOuroboros: especially the part with getting ZFS going on Linux (haven't done that myself, but heard that it's a pain)
22:51.58Ouroboroslorde: i think zfs per se is relatively straightforward these days, i am going to try it soon
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22:52.11megaTherionlorde: ZFS is easy on Linux, as long as you dont plan to boot from it *shrugs*
22:52.18Ouroborosyes, if you want to put / or /boot on it, it can be a lot more work
22:52.34megaTherionbut its not very efficient and yeah its weak... Linux and ZFS didnt play well together
22:53.06megaTherionand somehow btrfs aint a good choice either
22:53.08Ouroborosno, the issue is that they have to rewrite a lot of it
22:53.26Ouroborosand, well, unpaid developers and so on :P
22:53.28lordeWell, there's also btrfs, but after I read scary stuff about it breaking all the time, I wouldn't even put it on my home machine
22:53.42Ouroboroszfs also had a major regression recently, data was lost
22:53.47megaTherionya btrfs is like butter... I also heard from very evil things if you go for a serious raid
22:53.54megaTherionOuroboros: not on BSD?
22:53.59megaTherionOuroboros: there isnt the ZFS anymore
22:54.02Ouroborosno, only ZoL
22:54.04megaTherionand yes ZoL is crap
22:54.53Ouroborosthere still is 'the ZFS', on solaris, same as it always was
22:55.14lordeSo enterprise, much Oracle
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22:56.33lordeAnyway, the original guy, who asked the question: there's a really good article on Arch Wiki on the topic, and there's a fantastic LVM administrator guide from Red Hat, read up all that and decide for yourself
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22:57.22lordeIt's going to be basically the same on Debian since LVM and LUKS are distro-independent technologies
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22:58.30expert975lorde: There's actually too much on the Arch wiki on the topic... I've been reading for 3 days!
22:59.03lordeexpert975: yeah, I know. My strong suggestion would be to use LUKS on top of logical volumes
22:59.13expert975lorde: Why?
22:59.52hestonhello guys, how should I got about troubleshooting my thinkpad that was stuck in standby/hiberation according to the LEDs, it wouldnt wake up and debian is configured to never go into standby or hibernation. Thinkpad t500 on debian stretch
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23:01.07lordeexpert975: Lesser chance that you break something; if you use encryption on physical block devices, in case if something wrong with LUKS, you lose the whole LVM volume group, and, logically, all LV's in that volume group
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23:02.45expert975lorde: what could go wrong with LUKS?
23:03.04lordeexpert975: LUKS basically puts another abstraction layer in this chain "physical device => ^^ insert LUKS here^^ = > physical volume => volume group => logical volume"
23:03.20lordeexpert975: That just seems logically wrong to me, personally
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23:04.01pingfloydI'd do it the other way around
23:04.05pingfloydlvm over luks
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23:04.36lordeexpert975: you basically have to remember/set up like "Okay, this is the password for hard drive A", instead of "Okay, this is the password for my /home partition"
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23:05.30pingfloydjust keep /boot and ESP outside the luks volumes
23:05.36expert975lorde: I'm using LVM so I can type only one password at boot
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23:05.48expert975pingfloyd: I want to encrypt /boot
23:05.53pingfloydexpert975: that's how I do it to
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23:07.51pingfloydthere's ways to encrypt boot.  You'll have mess with the initramfs and few other things, but what I don't like about that is it can lead to more catch 22 situations
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23:10.33expert975pingfloyd: I see...
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23:11.58expert975pingfloyd: There are so many options and ways to do it, one could easily get lost
23:12.51lordeexpert975: I'd just go with ecryptfs if at all possible, but many people don't like it
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23:14.25expert975lorde: I was thinking on using dm-crypt
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23:17.00lordeexpert975: LUKS is an extension for dm-crypt, if I'm not mistaken
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23:18.00expert975lorde: Yes. I belive it is
23:21.45Ouroborosluks is a way to store key and cipher information for dm-crypt
23:21.53Ouroborosthe underlying operation is exactly the same
23:22.22Ouroboros(at least for luks1, i am not sure exactly what luks2 added)
23:23.55Ouroborosbe sure to back up the luks header
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23:24.26expert975Ouroboros: Where should I keep it?
23:24.26Ouroborosand don't bother with encrypting /boot, as we discusssed, it is basically pointless right now
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23:24.39Ouroborosexpert975: anywhere you want, it is not confidential
23:24.48expert975Ouroboros: What about kernel tempering?
23:25.28Ouroborosyou can write it to some other place on the drive or you can store it as either a binary or a text file
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23:26.01Ouroboroshave you read the luks faq?
23:26.17Ouroboroserr, cryptsetup faq
23:26.25expert975Ouroboros: On the Arch wiki?
23:26.35Ouroborosno, just duckduck cryptsetup faq
23:26.53Ouroborosyou may need to read it on archive.org if gitlab is still broken
23:27.10expert975Ouroboros: I'll give it a searx
23:27.30Ouroborosit covers many many issues and pitfalls
23:27.55lordeI like how Ouroboros uses 'duckduck' instead of 'google'. That's class, man :)
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23:28.18Ouroborosno, it's streets ahead :P
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23:33.32Ouroborosexpert975: if you really want to prevent tampering, then you need to research uefi|luks2|dm-integrity|dm-verity, i honestly don't have much of an idea about those things
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23:34.35Ouroborosexpert975: and what is the actual attack scenario?
23:36.44expert975Ouroboros: search and seizure
23:37.07expert975Ouroboros: And the maid
23:38.22Ouroborosif they ever have the physical hardware, then it is over, consider it lost
23:38.33Ouroborosas for the maid, caesar cipher is probably good enough
23:38.47expert975Ouroboros: haha
23:39.21expert975Ouroboros: why do you say them having the hardware it's lost?
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23:39.39Ouroborosbecause they can modify anything
23:39.41Javabeanthey can just make a copy and crack it in parallel
23:39.56Ouroborosyou basically cannot prevent tampering if they have the hardware
23:40.22expert975Javabean: give them a 4096 bit
23:40.45Ouroborosi am not saying that the data is necessarily compromised, i am saying that you cannot use the hardware anymore
23:41.03lordeI'd really like to see a demonstration of cracking of something encrypted with AES-256
23:41.04Javabean...  /me points to ASIC miners for *coin
23:41.05expert975Ouroboros: that sounds good enough
23:42.06Ouroborosregarding authentication, i am not sure whether it is possible to do it in a way that does not reveal the secret to whoever posseses the hardware
23:42.07expert975lorde: We all do
23:42.13Ouroborosdoes anyone know, is that a thing?
23:43.12expert975Ouroboros: A keyboard could have a hardware keylogger, the key in a USB could be read by the sistem... is that what you mean?
23:43.42Ouroborosfor the previous thing, yes
23:43.49pattersonIf you are sitting at the machine you generally own it
23:44.03whislockPhysical access is god.
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23:44.49Ouroborosi am now asking, is there a way that authentication can be done in a mutually oblivious way?
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23:45.23Ouroborosi am thinking about something like millionaire's problem, but it is not exactly that, i don't think
23:45.35expert975Ouroboros: how about having the bootloader on a USB drive?
23:45.52pattersonsecurity tokens
23:46.40Javabeandepends upon an unsecured source
23:47.41Ouroborosactually, neverming, i am thinking complete nonsense
23:49.01jsyncncurses actually is a library file of particular terminal text formatting. It's not got much of a thing to do with programming a server.
23:49.41Ouroborosbecause i want not "what they have" but "who they are", and how could you ever validate that?
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23:50.04expert975Ouroboros: The hardware take in the key. So for someone with access to the hardware not tot have access to the data, the hardware would have to be a perfect black box, with a well defined access interface.
23:50.12pattersonCapIA thing you know, a thing you have and something borrowed
23:50.17jsync#include ncurses.h is convenient, though doesn't answer my question.
23:50.56expert975Ouroboros:* The hardware takes
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23:54.12expert975Ouroboros: So someone with access to the hardware could get the key by freezing the RAM and dumping its contents on another machine
23:54.50jsyncFor an example about my quandry: OpenSim servers actually are coded in C#. That's a programming language. Upon compiling the software, OpenSim.exe files actually are created. They require mono to run the software. That's not really "Debian Programming", which is why I asked, "What programming language should I use to make a server that calls & attaches screen sessions, detaches those sessions, & has other features like ability to inclu
23:54.54expert975Ouroboros: Maybe unless the machine is inside a safe
23:55.39pattersonRemovable drives that get locked up every day
23:56.05expert975patterson: please elaborate
23:56.31pattersonEverybody walking  around in pairs watching each other
23:56.35jsyncI feel like I might as well ask, "How do I make a program in debian?" I just feel like it's difficult to express my question to the irc channel of users.
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23:57.02Ouroborosor just don't have any secrets, it is much easier and healthier :P
23:57.06jsyncI'm not trying to be rude. It's just difficult to explain my question I think.
23:57.35Ouroborospatterson: wouldn't you need at least triple person redundancy?
23:57.50pattersonIt never ends, Turtles all the way down
23:58.04Ouroborosa b-tree of turtles
23:58.17Ouroborosbttrfs
23:58.40pattersonNice conversation. Perhaps I should have scrolled up to understand the topic.
23:58.56expert975jsync: You could use the C programming language
23:58.57Ouroboroswhy bother
23:59.05expert975jsavalle: There's also Java
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