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| 00:02.15 | Tech_Guy | sup |
| 00:04.12 | mnuhmnuh | livedebian: mount free space (usbkey) on running system (/media)? |
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| 00:24.27 | ryouma | ok, i am told that (basically) this is the correct sequence to use to create a chroot. is this correct for debian? just want to confirm. that comment about systemd is unnerving. http://termbin.com/uof2 |
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| 00:28.33 | michael2 | does any one know why the mirror list below doesn't tell users where the security mirror is? |
| 00:28.37 | michael2 | https://www.debian.org/mirror/list |
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| 00:30.10 | michael2 | are we supposed to simply point /etc/source.list to use the same mirror for debian/security? |
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| 00:33.03 | cpd8 | Hi guys, I am trying to install debian 9 on my x230 laptop but when I select install the screen goes black except for a small portion at the top with obscured pixels. I have tried multiple usbs, methods of writing to the usbs and multiple isos |
| 00:34.12 | michael2 | I mean for the stretch/updates archive whose canonical url is http://security.debian.org/debian-security |
| 00:34.55 | dvs | cpd8, even the firmware iso? |
| 00:35.06 | cpd8 | the non-free firmware netinstlal one? |
| 00:35.26 | dvs | yes |
| 00:35.29 | cpd8 | yeah same issue |
| 00:35.34 | cpd8 | pixelated at the top |
| 00:36.32 | somiaj | michael2: security mirrors are dealt with differently and have a single url that redirects to a near by mirror. So there are not indvidual mirrors to use for security updates. |
| 00:36.51 | somiaj | cpd8: how did you create the usb stick you are booting from? |
| 00:37.48 | cpd8 | multiple methods, I tried rufus, etcher, and the manual method from the release notes on debian.org |
| 00:37.58 | cpd8 | on different OS's |
| 00:38.21 | dvs | manual method? |
| 00:38.55 | somiaj | what os are you creating the iso from |
| 00:39.03 | somiaj | rufus and etcher can both totally managle the debian iso images |
| 00:39.46 | cpd8 | I was using solus, but am trying with windows now to see if I could have any success |
| 00:40.01 | somiaj | I dno't know solous, but on windows use win32diskimager |
| 00:40.02 | dvs | !win32diskimager |
| 00:40.02 | dpkg | win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details. |
| 00:40.11 | michael2 | somiaj: thats the problem with the mirror list - the mirrors never publish the URL for their security mirror. so there is no choice but to use the http://security.debian.org/debian-security repository or configure apt to get security upgrades from the same mirror repository right? |
| 00:40.25 | cpd8 | somiaj: ok I will try that |
| 00:40.43 | somiaj | michael2: that isn't a problem, that is by design. Security mirrors are seperate and should only be access via security.debian.org |
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| 00:41.47 | somiaj | michael2: there are multiple machines behind security.debian.org, but by design there is a single security mirror (to avoid some problems that mirrors may have only providing some arches, or any delay it may take to propagate, the security mirrors are dealt with seperatlly) |
| 00:41.49 | ryouma | the dpkg instructions in this channel fail to mention make-rslave. should they? |
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| 00:42.17 | somiaj | i'm unsure on the actual details of the security mirrors beyond thereis a single url to access them and they are treated differntaly. |
| 00:42.20 | somiaj | ryouma: makr-rslave? |
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| 00:43.36 | ryouma | somiaj: gentoo (supposedly applicable to debian) says the following (i will use http://termbin.com/uof2 if this is correct): configuring section of https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot#Configuration |
| 00:43.36 | michael2 | somiaj: so you are saying we are supposed to use http://security.debian.org/debian-security ? for security updates - and mirrors for the regular release, updates packages etc? |
| 00:44.01 | themill | michael2: yes. In fact using deb.debian.org for both makes sense |
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| 00:44.03 | somiaj | michael2: yes, security mirrors only contain secruity updates and are seperate from the mian mirrors. |
| 00:44.15 | cpd8 | somiaj: same issue with win32diskimager |
| 00:44.18 | somiaj | oh yea, I forgot deb.debian.org now reidrects debian/security too |
| 00:44.26 | somiaj | cpd8: you may want to try to disable modesetting then |
| 00:44.59 | somiaj | cpd8: try nomodeset i915.modeset=0 nouveau.modeset=0 as your boot paramters, only need to use i915 for intel and nouveau for nvidia |
| 00:45.13 | themill | yeah, modern apt will use a cdn for security.d.o |
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| 00:45.51 | themill | (that saves security.d.o being nuked from orbit every time there's a kernel update) |
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| 00:46.46 | ryouma | 17:44 <themill> michael2: yes. In fact using deb.debian.org for both makes sense -- i don't understand this as an answer to michael2's question. he said security and then you said yes. but then you said deb. |
| 00:46.50 | somiaj | ryouma: ahh i'm unsure what the --make-rslave mount option does and why it is used, but dev, proc, sys and tmp by default rarely have other mounts inside of them, so the recursive bind most likely isn't needed |
| 00:47.30 | themill | ryouma: security.debian.org and deb.debian.org are the same thing |
| 00:47.37 | ryouma | somiaj: i found that when creating a chroot on drives, i can never umount /sys because something mounts stuff underneath them. fusectl, systemd, whatever. |
| 00:47.42 | ryouma | themill: ok, thanks |
| 00:48.12 | themill | (check the http SRV record) |
| 00:48.22 | ryouma | somiaj: so i think the dpkg factoid might be very wrong |
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| 00:48.27 | Chipset_Board | hi |
| 00:48.39 | ryouma | i wish debian had something like arch's chroot script |
| 00:49.06 | cpd8 | somiaj: how to set boot parameters? |
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| 00:49.38 | themill | ryouma: if you want tools to manage chroots there are lots; schroot is commonly used |
| 00:50.38 | ryouma | too fancy for me |
| 00:50.59 | ryouma | i just need to install grub and do mkinitramfs or something on a drive :) |
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| 00:51.33 | ryouma | it seems pretty screwy that if you follow dpkg's instructions for chroot, you could end up changing the host system |
| 00:52.13 | ryouma | i was told that you could merely mount --bind 3 things from teh host. it seems you have to do a lot more. |
| 00:53.21 | themill | can't say I've ever done more |
| 00:53.22 | cpd8 | I found my issue, I was using UEFI only mode, if I switch to UEFI & BIOS option it works fine.... |
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| 00:55.09 | ryouma | themill: here is where a debian page says youc an screw up your host system. saerch for that option. https://wiki.debian.org/systemd |
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| 00:55.21 | dvs | cpd8, so you have a BIOS install I guess. |
| 00:55.59 | dvs | cpd8, Is SecureBoot is turned off too? |
| 00:56.04 | ryouma | themill: so i was told to do basically http://termbin.com/uof2 |
| 00:56.30 | cpd8 | there was no option for uefi or bios dl for debian |
| 00:56.33 | ryouma | "then /dev will be unmounted in your base/parent system as well!" |
| 00:57.11 | cpd8 | didn't check, should it be off? |
| 00:57.26 | dvs | cpd8, SecureBoot should be off. |
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| 01:00.31 | slicepaperwords | is there a way to print the file location that env variables are coming from? been turning the google crank for awhile no luck |
| 01:01.55 | cpd8 | cant find secureboot in my bios |
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| 01:07.10 | themill | ryouma: that's only relevant if you're bind mounting / into the chroot; you're not are you? |
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| 01:08.16 | ryouma | no, i rsync root then i chroot to it in order to do grub |
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| 01:08.25 | ryouma | chroot to the target |
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| 01:33.33 | somiaj | ryouma: the factoid seems fine to me, those extra options would only matter if people have submounts inside of /dev, /proc, /sys, which is rare. |
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| 01:38.20 | cpd8 | now its failing to fetch updates on a fresh install but I can access them fine through my browser |
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| 01:38.26 | cpd8 | never had so much issues with debian before |
| 01:39.30 | ryouma | somiaj: i found that by doing what chroot says (except merely doing it as a loop with --bind for all 3), i was unable to unmount /sys because it was in use |
| 01:39.43 | ryouma | somiaj: i found that by doing what dpkg chroot says (except merely doing it as a loop with --bind for all 3), i was unable to unmount /sys because it was in use |
| 01:39.59 | somiaj | yea I didn't realzie systemd had changed things, I rarely need to mount --bind into my chroots, but I just use them to build stuff |
| 01:40.10 | ryouma | so it is necessary to do --rbind at the least |
| 01:40.34 | ryouma | and possible make-rslave in case somebody tries something funny |
| 01:40.39 | ryouma | (which is possible for a newcomer) |
| 01:40.54 | somiaj | I don't see what --rbind is doing there, that just means recrusive, and unless you have submounts inside of sys, won't be doing much |
| 01:41.43 | ryouma | so my new loop to do a chroot is for dir in /dev /sys /proc; do mount --rbind --make-rslave target/$dir; done |
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| 01:42.29 | ryouma | somiaj: maybe you're right. the submounts are probably created for who knows what reason after the mounting is done. so you need umount --recursive. |
| 01:42.42 | ryouma | which i also intend to do |
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| 01:43.25 | ryouma | i will make a comment in my script that rbind is probably not nec |
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| 01:46.51 | somiaj | but this appears to be more a case that many use cases didn't fully notice the change and the old factoids in dpkg haven't been updated. I also wonder if this change ever got documented in the release notes like discussed int he bug report. |
| 01:46.59 | ryouma | is there a difference between doing "mount -t proc none /target/proc" and doing "mount --rbind --make-rslave /proc /target/proc" (same question for sys)? |
| 01:48.07 | ryouma | somiaj: yes i assume the factoid just didn't get upgraded. but i think it should be like my loop above, if i am not wrong. because taht can be remembered by somebody, while the special cases of proc and sys being different from dev makes it less so. |
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| 01:48.43 | somiaj | I think the factoid should point at good document explaining what those options do over just state them. |
| 01:49.04 | ryouma | i.e. i think it should be this loop if i am not wrong: 18:41 <ryouma> so my new loop to do a chroot is for dir in /dev /sys /proc; do mount --rbind --make-rslave target/$dir; done |
| 01:49.15 | ryouma | except for the rbind which should be bind i suppose |
| 01:49.19 | somiaj | I think assuming you want to use --make-rslave is poor too, and it cannot be undone. It really depends on if you want the shared namespace or not. |
| 01:49.41 | somiaj | there are apps in which making it a slave or prviate could break. |
| 01:49.42 | ryouma | huh, i have no idea. i just want to do a chroot to install grub. |
| 01:50.03 | somiaj | From live system? |
| 01:50.21 | ryouma | yeah, i am creating a bootable copy of my live system |
| 01:50.31 | ryouma | rsync, then fix stuff, then chroot and install grub. sort of. |
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| 01:50.49 | Chipset_IRQ | hi |
| 01:51.37 | somiaj | anyways might want to read up on what the --make-rslave and --make-rprivate actually do. I think the reason this isn't well known, despite it hsa been the default since jessie, is it only affects certain use cases. |
| 01:52.29 | ryouma | that's above my ability to do atm |
| 01:52.41 | somiaj | but seems man mount_namespaces, and the main things i / is now MS_SHARED by default which was a change in jessie |
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| 01:53.22 | somiaj | so if one just quickly mounts --binds, installs grub, then reboots, the MS_SHARED may not even be noticed. |
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| 01:54.13 | ryouma | perhaps. i just got a stern warning that if you don't do the make rslave thing you could screw stuff up |
| 01:54.21 | ryouma | is all |
| 01:54.23 | somiaj | but for the most part, seems what --make-rslave is doing is setting MS_SLAVE to make ti so if the parent is unmounted then the slave is. In the past it was MS_PRIVATE by default, so this behvaior is actually better. |
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| 01:55.19 | timeless | is there a replacement for https://wiki.debian.org/MultiarchCrossToolchainBuild ? |
| 01:55.29 | somiaj | so yea, without it if you are on a running system that you want to unmount the bind mount, there will be a difference, but many use cases won't need this |
| 01:56.18 | ryouma | i unmount after the chroot is exited, and apparently it is not a risk if you do that, but i could imagine a newcomer mistakenly unmounting while the chroot is active |
| 01:56.37 | timeless | that page /seems/ to suggest that i could use `dpkg-buildpackage --target-arch i686 ...` (it lists armel as an example), but that doesn't work |
| 01:58.02 | ryouma | somiaj: when you say live system i assumed you mean "a live, running system". i just realized you might have meant "a live cd". |
| 01:58.17 | ryouma | i am not using a live cd. i am using my running system |
| 01:59.04 | somiaj | ryouma: yea, I mean ta live cd, and yes since you will want to unmount this you should use --make-rslave |
| 01:59.13 | somiaj | which factoid were you saying you got this info from? |
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| 01:59.38 | ryouma | ok, so sounds like i want --make-rslave. dpkg chroot. |
| 02:00.18 | Chipset_IRQ | chroot > changes to user root. right? |
| 02:00.45 | somiaj | !chroot |
| 02:00.45 | dpkg | To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target". |
| 02:01.13 | themill | timeless: i686 is not a debian arch; cross-building isn't necessarily going to work anyway. What are you trying to build and on what arch? |
| 02:01.17 | somiaj | Chipset_IRQ: no, chroot makes a /target dir the new / file system, so you are running softawre from inside a subset of your file system. |
| 02:01.45 | somiaj | ryouma: though it didn't have much space, I would rather explain what that --make-rslave is doing, it does seem like a reasonable default. |
| 02:02.43 | ryouma | somiaj: iiuc sounds like my loop is ok "for dir in /dev /sys /proc; do mount --rbind --make-rslave target/$dir; done" (rbind is like bind if no submounts, apparently) |
| 02:03.37 | ryouma | also, presumably from a live cd unmounting is irrelevant? |
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| 02:06.21 | timeless | themill: sshguard for i686 from amd64 |
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| 02:08.38 | somiaj | timeless: to build for 32bit on amd64, I would just create a 32bit chroot and build there. |
| 02:08.59 | somiaj | ryouma: correct, as mentioned, this change in jessie only affects certain use cases, and it sounds like yours is one. |
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| 02:12.01 | ryouma | thank you for confirming. i wasn't sure about the systemd thing. i also wasn't sure about whether it was ok to use --rbind instead of -t proc and -t sys. |
| 02:12.27 | somiaj | well proc is okay if it got unmounted, so test it, you can lways reboot |
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| 02:12.51 | somiaj | but my guess is when using -t proc and -t sys is making a new mount (not a shared mounted, which you then turn into a slave mount with --make-rslave) |
| 02:12.58 | ryouma | i don't mean with erspect to the systemd thing. i just mean could dpkg suggest --bind for sys and proc instead. |
| 02:13.05 | somiaj | and in this case, --make-slave is probabaly sufficent, recursive mountes most likely aren't needed |
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| 02:13.52 | somiaj | yea, and it really isn't a systemd thing directly, it is jsut sytemd changed / from being MS_PRIVATE to being MS_SHARED which has its advntanges, the problem is changes take a while to ripple though the os world |
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| 02:15.26 | rfleming | Hi! Question. What happened to network-manager-openconnect-gnome in testing? It's in every other repo but buster/testing |
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| 02:16.09 | somiaj | rfleming: probably broken, I'm going to find the actual bug |
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| 02:16.39 | somiaj | rfleming: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=862884 |
| 02:16.40 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/862884 in src:network-manager-openconnect (open, patch, buster, sid): «Disable libnm-glib support»; severity: serious; opened: 2017-05-18; last modified: 2018-04-14. |
| 02:17.06 | somiaj | rfleming: a libary change, when the old libary got removed from testing, anything that dependend on it did too. might have to wait for the new libary and the new package to propagate |
| 02:17.51 | rfleming | which is (looks at bug) libmn-glib? |
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| 02:18.26 | rfleming | somiaj: this bug it seems https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=862677 |
| 02:18.27 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/862677 in src:gnome-shell (closed): «gnome-shell: Port from libnm-util/libnm-glib/libnm-gtk to libnm/libnma»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-05-15; last modified: 2018-03-01. |
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| 02:19.04 | somiaj | rfleming: for the time you can install the packages you need from sid until the new ones are available |
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| 02:20.02 | rfleming | somiaj: OK. Refresher, add the sid repo then pin it so low nothing will come from it? |
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| 02:20.38 | timeless | somiaj: ok... since none of these systems are native, i ended up just being lazy and installing debian-i686 in another vm |
| 02:21.00 | somiaj | rfleming: yea, and in the future you should bring debian testing questions in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
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| 02:21.10 | somiaj | timeless: a chroot would have been just fine, no need for a full vm to build something in |
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| 02:21.17 | somiaj | timeless: debootstrap would have been quick |
| 02:21.46 | timeless | nods |
| 02:21.46 | rfleming | ahh, I tried #debian-testing and got booted 'cus I needed an invite |
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| 02:22.52 | timeless | i probably could have one set of chroots for each of {debian,ubuntu,centos}-{i686,amd64}, but, i don't really have the energy to play w/ that... I have in the past used debootstrap (quite a bit in fact)... |
| 02:23.10 | timeless | (i could probably also just use lxc for this) |
| 02:23.12 | somiaj | rfleming: it is on a different network |
| 02:25.11 | timeless | anyway, thanks |
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| 02:28.36 | oops | #quit |
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| 02:46.23 | rfleming | somiaj: OFC? |
| 02:46.38 | rfleming | OFTC |
| 02:46.41 | rfleming | sighs |
| 02:47.59 | annadane | yes, #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
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| 04:10.56 | maxcell_ | Hi, i managed to install Debian but i got no sound |
| 04:11.11 | maxcell_ | I'm on Xfce |
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| 04:15.05 | maxcell_ | Hi, there is no volume icon in my Xfce and the sound aren't working |
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| 04:18.51 | maxcell_ | all i needed was to add the pulseaudio volume on the panel and it worked, bye |
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| 04:45.55 | annadane | sorry for dumb question but how do you actually see closed bugs on bugs.debian.org |
| 04:45.58 | annadane | for a specific package |
| 04:46.00 | annadane | emacs, in this case |
| 04:46.19 | annadane | nvm think i found it |
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| 05:11.10 | jitaram | Hellow, Command like reboot, shutdown are only run by root, is there a way to run those command to another user? |
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| 05:21.57 | awal1 | use systemctl reboot/poweroff... |
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| 05:22.01 | awal1 | jitaram |
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| 05:29.50 | jitaram | *awal1 i want it shutdown down now |
| 05:30.02 | jitaram | "shutdown -P now" like this |
| 05:31.08 | Sir_Designer | jitaram just press the roind button onyour machine. problem solved. |
| 05:31.12 | Sir_Designer | round |
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| 05:31.17 | karankaran | hii |
| 05:31.17 | awal1 | no |
| 05:31.34 | iflema | jitaram: you could use sudo and edit with visudo |
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| 05:32.08 | karankaran | hey i am a hacker of |
| 05:32.14 | karankaran | your name |
| 05:32.19 | jitaram | shutdowning is not just the problem, i want to use most of the root command from another user? |
| 05:32.19 | Sir_Designer | modern OSes handle disk parkingand general shutdown hardness gracefully, so no worries. the age of sync;sync;sync is like museum. |
| 05:32.52 | karankaran | ss7 attack script |
| 05:32.54 | awal1 | jitaram, don't press power button unless forced, not good for system and hardware. use s'systemctl poweroff' ass user, that is equivalent to shutdown -h or -P now |
| 05:33.10 | awal1 | systemctl poweroff |
| 05:33.15 | Sir_Designer | nonsense. olf fashioned crufty advice, imho. |
| 05:33.40 | karankaran | hey ae u use in whatsapp |
| 05:33.59 | Sir_Designer | karankaran would you kindly hush and go away? this is a debian support channel. |
| 05:34.19 | karankaran | okkk |
| 05:34.37 | karankaran | send ur ip |
| 05:34.40 | awal1 | Sir_Designer, elaborate the technical side of you argument |
| 05:34.47 | Sir_Designer | awal1 if i must. |
| 05:35.05 | jitaram | Thank you all. |
| 05:35.07 | awal1 | !ops karankaran spamming |
| 05:35.07 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: awal1 complains about a problem (see above) |
| 05:35.23 | jitaram | iflema how to edit visudo |
| 05:35.24 | jitaram | ? |
| 05:35.24 | karankaran | no no |
| 05:35.29 | *** mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ |
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| 05:35.34 | Sir_Designer | it is low level debian magic, that the disk, if ther eis disk, gets nicely parked on power interrupt. this is a function of hardware as well as software cache purging and general graceful hadling of power off. |
| 05:35.57 | jitaram | i am just beginner so...i also want to run many root command so, it will be the similar process. |
| 05:35.57 | Sir_Designer | other than file system corruption, there have not been worries abotu hard pressing off button in contemporary hardware. |
| 05:36.00 | Sir_Designer | end of argument. |
| 05:36.09 | annadane | can you really just shut down via power button and not damage hardware? |
| 05:36.23 | annadane | other than file system corruption... eww |
| 05:36.27 | Sir_Designer | yes. |
| 05:36.32 | pingfloyd | that's not going to damage hardware |
| 05:36.37 | Sir_Designer | you used to not be able to, but htat was 30 years ago |
| 05:36.37 | pingfloyd | where did you get that idea? |
| 05:36.49 | annadane | well, rather not risk corruption |
| 05:37.03 | Sir_Designer | no corruption, not with ext 3 or better. |
| 05:37.15 | pingfloyd | power cycling has never been damaging to hardware (assuming your PSU isn't faulty) |
| 05:37.50 | Sir_Designer | pingfloyd thank you |
| 05:37.50 | themill | on most hardware, pressing the powerbutton starts an orderly shutdown |
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| 05:37.50 | pingfloyd | no problem |
| 05:37.50 | Sir_Designer | ;) |
| 05:37.50 | themill | (press and hold it is different) |
| 05:38.08 | pingfloyd | annadane: the main reason you don't want to hard reboot/shutdown is because of write caching |
| 05:38.14 | awal1 | well, i was refering to press and hold, ofcourse |
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| 05:38.22 | awal1 | tgemill |
| 05:38.28 | jitaram | #exit |
| 05:38.33 | pingfloyd | i.e., when you hit the power, there's no guarantee the cache is flushed |
| 05:38.44 | Sir_Designer | disk hw flushes. |
| 05:38.52 | Sir_Designer | on ssd trim does it |
| 05:39.36 | pingfloyd | that's also the reason you could get away with it so much in older versions of windows--they had write caching disabled |
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| 05:40.40 | pingfloyd | even then though, there is a opportunity for file inconsistency and lost meta-data |
| 05:41.11 | themill | (there's also plenty of arm hardware out there that has no way to power it off other than to yank the cable...) |
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| 05:41.36 | Sir_Designer | journaled file ssytem is designed not to suffer from such trifles. |
| 05:41.45 | pingfloyd | themill: yeah |
| 05:41.53 | pingfloyd | themill: used to be even more common as you go back |
| 05:42.29 | pingfloyd | in a way a power switch is superfluous (except software power switches). |
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| 05:42.58 | pingfloyd | a switch just opens and closes a circuit which is the same thing as pulling the plug |
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| 05:44.00 | Sir_Designer | a well-designed circuits shuts off with pure sine wave; a badly made one may entrain harmonics that do damage some capacitors. |
| 05:44.20 | pingfloyd | yeah, bad design is always going to be a problem one way or another |
| 05:44.42 | annadane | i can barely tie my shoes in the morning let alone follow this conversation |
| 05:44.54 | Sir_Designer | annadane what is your computer? |
| 05:45.07 | annadane | square box thing. (no, it's a dell) |
| 05:45.13 | Sir_Designer | i'll tell you if you can safely park your thumb on its power button to safely end things in a jiffy. |
| 05:45.26 | Sir_Designer | then you are good to go. enjoy your button. |
| 05:45.47 | annadane | collects jaw from floor. |
| 05:46.11 | pingfloyd | annadane: in short, you want to do a graceful shutdown/reboot to keep the filesystem and data from becoming corrupted |
| 05:46.31 | Sir_Designer | 30 years ago |
| 05:46.33 | Sir_Designer | not today |
| 05:46.40 | pingfloyd | annadane: you're hardware is safe, assuming the engineers didn't do something stupid in the design (a caveat)> |
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| 05:54.23 | themill | worth remembering that the journal is only about keeping the filesystem consistent, not about preventing data loss. |
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| 05:56.27 | themill | particularly with the default data=ordered |
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| 06:57.21 | Das_Fuhrer | Ich bin das Führer |
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| 06:57.48 | Fox | Das_Fuhrer: go to hell then |
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| 07:32.17 | wr | how can i check on debian logs on a previous day the time i left using pc? |
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| 07:32.56 | annadane | wr, can you clarify a little bit? what information do you want? in other words do you want to know when you shut down your computer? |
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| 07:34.41 | wr | annadane, i normally dont shut it, i wanna know if any log tells me time stop using pc |
| 07:35.14 | annadane | i think probably you can look through /var/log/syslog which should be consistent across boots |
| 07:35.22 | annadane | if anyone has better ideas let me (us) know |
| 07:35.43 | wr | annadane, in time, how many days it goes back? |
| 07:35.46 | annadane | if you have persistent journalctl you can journalctl -b -1 for example to see previous boot |
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| 07:36.10 | annadane | i think it goes back indefinitely and then when the file grows too big it gets split into multiple files |
| 07:36.27 | annadane | ls /var/log | grep syslog will show you how many you have |
| 07:36.33 | wr | annadane, i can filter it in a day i guess then |
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| 07:37.10 | wr | annadane, 7 files parts |
| 07:37.40 | annadane | so the most recent one will be syslog and then in order of new -> old, syslog.1, syslog.2 etc |
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| 07:39.57 | wr | annadane, i can see in a one liner all files? |
| 07:40.13 | wr | they have a gz |
| 07:40.27 | annadane | you mean piece together all the syslog files? not sure |
| 07:40.40 | wr | annadane, i mean more filter on all them |
| 07:40.41 | annadane | though that's likely not what you mean |
| 07:40.49 | annadane | not sure |
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| 07:42.24 | wr | annadane, can be done, just not seeing it how yet |
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| 07:45.47 | yareckonirc | morning debian folks, is it kosher to prod a maintainer to roll a new build to fix a bug? |
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| 07:46.03 | yareckonirc | how does one do this "the debian way" ? |
| 07:46.19 | annadane | ought to just be able to file a normal bug report |
| 07:46.30 | annadane | but beware that in stable it may not get fixed |
| 07:46.42 | yareckonirc | There is one https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=901497 , but it'S for unstable |
| 07:46.59 | annadane | ah... |
| 07:47.07 | annadane | yeah, i'm not sure about that situation |
| 07:47.08 | yareckonirc | looks like debian just needs to pull the next minor point release of X server |
| 07:47.39 | yareckonirc | Since I don'T know how much work that is, I don't know how apologietic to be :P |
| 07:48.10 | yareckonirc | but it's a bug that made me run X.org instead of wayland for the first time in a year to avoid system hangs |
| 07:48.34 | yareckonirc | so I thought, worth asking for a straightforward refresh from upstream |
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| 07:49.26 | annadane | ,v xwayland |
| 07:49.27 | judd | Package: xwayland on amd64 -- jessie: 2:1.16.4-1+deb8u2; jessie-security: 2:1.16.4-1+deb8u2; stretch: 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u2; buster: 2:1.19.6-1; sid: 2:1.20.0-2 |
| 07:49.33 | annadane | shame, no backports |
| 07:49.54 | annadane | yareckonirc, i guess for now just file the bug anyway, no harm in it |
| 07:50.20 | annadane | i'm unsure as to official policy and surely someone does know but for now i'd just file it |
| 07:50.35 | annadane | if you're polite they won't get mad |
| 07:50.51 | yareckonirc | cool |
| 07:51.21 | yareckonirc | I will jsut reply to the bug report, don't think it has the info that the patches were merged into the next mini release of x |
| 07:51.42 | annadane | yeah or do that |
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| 07:52.01 | yareckonirc | https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/58705 says that xorg-server-1.20.0-5 has the fix |
| 07:52.16 | yareckonirc | but thats arch linux numbering I am noticiing |
| 07:52.26 | yareckonirc | so it's not an upstream pull |
| 07:52.33 | yareckonirc | d'oh |
| 07:52.48 | annadane | well arch has a very different release schedule to debian stable |
| 07:53.33 | yareckonirc | sure, I was remembering the fixed version being something like 1.20.1 upstream, but rereading it sounds like arch just did version 5 of their patch set on 1.20.0 |
| 07:53.43 | yareckonirc | if that's what -5 means in arch too |
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| 07:54.48 | yareckonirc | Thanks, I'll reply to the bug report and ask for help |
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| 07:57.19 | annadane | also jesus christ that bug report is long |
| 07:58.22 | annadane | yareckonirc, on first impression though yeah if you raise hell about getting the bug fixed in stable it very likely will be because it's marked as important and does have a major effect on the package |
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| 07:58.27 | annadane | just on first impression though |
| 07:58.30 | annadane | a maintainer, i am not |
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| 08:09.38 | dominik2 | Hi debian experts |
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| 08:10.02 | drzacek | Hi dominik2 |
| 08:10.14 | drzacek | just joking, I'm no expert |
| 08:10.26 | dominik2 | I'm trying to create a bootable usb stick from https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 08:10.56 | dominik2 | and I tried to do so by just running dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/my-usb-device |
| 08:11.32 | dominik2 | however, afterwards my bios doesn't allow me to boot from this USB stick |
| 08:11.51 | drzacek | so far I know this should work, debian images can be dd-ed to a drive |
| 08:11.54 | dominik2 | it shows up, but when I try to select it, I cannot boot from it |
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| 08:12.07 | dominik2 | yea, I also remember this working in the past |
| 08:12.21 | dominik2 | and I'm currently unsure why it doesn't work on my Lenovo P50 |
| 08:12.58 | drzacek | 1) are you sure the iso file downloaded correctly? 2) are you sure the images was burned correctly (pendrive too small) 3) correct bios settings? 4) proper hardware (some older hardware had problems with booting from usb)? |
| 08:14.13 | annadane | 5) previously friendly neighbor turns out to be a witch and put a hex on the USB? |
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| 08:14.46 | yareckonirc | or an octal |
| 08:15.04 | drzacek | you prepare your usb stick on windows machine? |
| 08:15.17 | dominik2 | drzacek: I prepared it on a linux machine |
| 08:15.35 | themill | did you run sync afterwards? |
| 08:15.35 | dominik2 | after copying the iso, fdisk -l says: |
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| 08:15.56 | dominik2 | Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type |
| 08:15.58 | dominik2 | /dev/sdb1 * 0 595967 595968 291M 0 Empty |
| 08:16.00 | dominik2 | /dev/sdb2 3760 4591 832 416K ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32) |
| 08:16.20 | drzacek | UEFI/MBR boot problem? |
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| 08:18.52 | drzacek | so from the start - you burn the image, restart your laptop, have bios configured to boot from usb and then what happens? you get any message,errors? |
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| 08:35.21 | annadane | hmm, where is "trash" in the file system |
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| 08:36.45 | perr-paranoic | Hi, I can't open a file group with one only application. I tried to change settings, but it doesn't save. |
| 08:37.15 | themill | annadane: ~/.local/share/Trash/ |
| 08:37.16 | dominik2 | drzacek: yes, that's pretty much it. And I don't get any errors. Its just that when I try to boot into the usb stick |
| 08:37.22 | dominik2 | it goes out of it immediately again |
| 08:37.24 | annadane | ta |
| 08:37.28 | MatijaT | annadane: /home/$USER/.local/share/Trash |
| 08:37.30 | dominik2 | sorry for my late reply, I was afk |
| 08:37.46 | dominik2 | I'll try the procedure once more now |
| 08:38.12 | yareckonirc | what's the deal with the gitlab instance https://salsa.debian.org? |
| 08:38.17 | themill | dominik2: I've seen this with cheapo usb sticks given out for free at conferences |
| 08:38.35 | dominik2 | hmmm, ok. |
| 08:38.41 | dominik2 | maybe that is the reason then. |
| 08:38.45 | dominik2 | let me try a different stick |
| 08:38.59 | dominik2 | but do you guys think that the partition table looks alright |
| 08:39.02 | dominik2 | ? |
| 08:39.07 | dominik2 | (the one I posted above) |
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| 08:39.31 | themill | the installer has a weird partition layout that fdisk doesn't like because it's being both a hard disk and a CD image |
| 08:39.44 | dominik2 | hmm, ok. |
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| 08:41.22 | annadane | yareckonirc, dunno what you mean but salsa is the migrated form of alioth where various debian teams put their projects and stuff |
| 08:41.40 | yareckonirc | Ah https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa/Doc#Support |
| 08:42.18 | yareckonirc | Just want to know if it's semi-official, or it is a preproduction experiement that isn't used yet |
| 08:42.25 | yareckonirc | seems legit though :) |
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| 08:42.35 | annadane | yeah it's official |
| 08:42.58 | annadane | i should go through it someday, interesting stuff |
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| 08:43.33 | Eightynine | I can't connect Wi-Fi though firmware is installed. WHen I'm trying to connect it doesn't show any messages why it failed to connect. |
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| 08:44.55 | themill | yareckonirc: grep -c Vcs.*salsa /var/lib/apt/lists/*Sources â /var/lib/apt/lists/deb.debian.org_debian_dists_sid_main_source_Sources:16862; sounds like it's gone beyond a test. |
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| 08:46.08 | yareckonirc | but I guess cause it's git only it's not replacing older systems completely, and is opt-in? |
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| 08:46.17 | BCMM | yareckonirc: definitely official, they've even got rid of Alioth in favour of it |
| 08:46.20 | annadane | perr-paranoic, what settings did you try changing |
| 08:46.46 | yareckonirc | I like gitlab |
| 08:46.48 | annadane | also what are you trying to open in what application |
| 08:47.21 | themill | yareckonirc: that's only the packages that have been uploaded with the updated Vcs* fields. There are many more there. |
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| 08:50.53 | perr-paranoic | annadane: In general setting "file" and I tried also to change "open with"... |
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| 08:51.51 | annadane | perr-paranoic, which desktop environment/window manager are you on, i'm not sure the command line way to change file associations |
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| 08:54.08 | perr-paranoic | annadane: I have KDE. I have created a group file, now it isn't default openening with Ark (zip) but every time I have to select application to correct opening. |
| 08:55.09 | annadane | not sure why it isn't working unfortunatel |
| 08:55.11 | annadane | y |
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| 09:03.35 | annadane | where does feh save its saved images? |
| 09:03.40 | annadane | if you press s on an image |
| 09:04.03 | annadane | oh, same directory, nvm |
| 09:06.49 | babilen | And there I thought "random directory somewhere in the filesystem" was a good idea |
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| 09:09.38 | annadane | feh is ridiculously useful, i wish i knew about all this before |
| 09:09.48 | annadane | who needs other image viewers |
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| 09:19.58 | lupulo | hi, according to https://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html#exec-variables, i can use Exec=~/lalala/notmore.sh or Exec=/home/$USER/lalala/notmore.sh, but the Shortcut disappear from unity, but with /home/notgenericuser/lalala/notmore.sh. Do you know why? it's a question about lalala.desktop into /usr/share/applications/ |
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| 09:20.51 | yareckonirc | I use feh to view QR codes I generate on the commandline as a kind of "clipboard to Phone" |
| 09:20.53 | yareckonirc | works great |
| 09:20.56 | yareckonirc | feh rocks |
| 09:21.52 | BCMM | yareckonirc: tried kdeconnect? i've got automatic clipboard sync with my phone over the LAN |
| 09:22.08 | perr-paranoic | annadane: thanks I will try other things... |
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| 09:24.03 | yareckonirc | BCMM, that sounds like a great feature, unfortunately I'm a very gnome person... deep respect for the kde folks, but not for me |
| 09:24.38 | BCMM | yareckonirc: is that because you think you need to run a full kde everything to use kdeconnect, or because you just don't want any kde-related software at all? |
| 09:24.45 | yareckonirc | lol, just sounded like I said I have no self respect.. may be true, but meant KDE is not for me |
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| 09:24.58 | BCMM | just asking because there's this weirdly widespread belief that you can't use kdeconnect on gnome |
| 09:25.13 | yareckonirc | BCMM that is my assumption, yes |
| 09:25.27 | yareckonirc | based on years of gnome and kde people abusing dependency trees |
| 09:25.52 | yareckonirc | I have learned to stick with one horrible octopus of deps |
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| 09:26.15 | [diablo] | Good morning #debian ... guys I put in my box a StarTech.com PEXM2SAT32N1 with a Samsung EVO 970 M.2 ... but now my onboard NIC is not functioning (Although I can see it with ip a s ... but can't ping anything) ... if I remove the PCIe and reboot, NIC works |
| 09:26.19 | [diablo] | any ideas please? |
| 09:27.16 | yareckonirc | whoa, sounds like a motherboard problem? |
| 09:27.22 | BCMM | yareckonirc: huh, good news... apparently there's now a gnome reimplementation of the protocol that doesn't depend on the original kdeconnect https://github.com/andyholmes/gnome-shell-extension-gsconnect |
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| 09:27.49 | [diablo] | yareckonirc could be.. it's a Medion box... |
| 09:27.59 | [diablo] | and an ECS mobo branded as Medion |
| 09:27.59 | BCMM | [diablo]: what do you mean by "remove the pcie"? |
| 09:28.17 | [diablo] | BCMM if I power off the box and remove the PCIe card with the M.2 drive |
| 09:28.30 | yareckonirc | Thanks BCMM, that sure does look "gnome like" |
| 09:28.36 | yareckonirc | maybe will be tempted to try it |
| 09:28.39 | yareckonirc | :P |
| 09:28.40 | BCMM | [diablo]: ah, didn't clock that PEXM2SAT32N1 was an adaptor board |
| 09:28.49 | [diablo] | np |
| 09:28.58 | BCMM | yareckonirc: i don't know what the gnome integration is like, but from kde it's pretty brilliant |
| 09:29.22 | BCMM | yareckonirc: pausing multimedia playback on the desktop when i get a phone call is nice |
| 09:29.37 | yareckonirc | That is pretty hot |
| 09:29.39 | BCMM | a few times already it's stopped me missing a call because i had headphones on |
| 09:29.52 | yareckonirc | extra super kudos for F-Droid version of the app |
| 09:30.07 | [diablo] | I've got a 4 x port Intel NIC kicking around my garage, perhaps I could pop that in and disable onboard NIC |
| 09:30.13 | BCMM | and it does it over mpris so any media player that doesn't suck works with it :) |
| 09:30.42 | BCMM | [diablo]: any chance the PSU is overloaded when you've got everything connected? |
| 09:30.53 | [diablo] | BCMM highly unlikely |
| 09:30.56 | bites | your cpu has limited pcie lanes. if the nic does not go through the chipset, the motherboard might shut it down if you use up more than 16 pcie lanes with expansion cards. check the manual of your mother board. |
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| 09:31.30 | [diablo] | bites LOL, sadly there's no mobo manual |
| 09:31.31 | BCMM | it *shouldn't* be easy to break pcie for the whole system from a single faulty device (like it was with pci's single-bus approach) |
| 09:31.45 | [diablo] | bites it's a prebuilt box by Medion ... |
| 09:31.58 | [diablo] | was cheap cheap and with 32GB RAM, using it for a hypervisor |
| 09:32.11 | BCMM | bites: ooooh that's a good point. but even m.2 bandwidth is fairly small compared to what, say, a pcie graphics card uses, right? |
| 09:32.11 | bites | [diablo]: medion does not manufacture parts. check what motherboard is inside and find documentation online. |
| 09:32.14 | [diablo] | hence the reason for popping in the M.2 drive |
| 09:32.35 | bites | BCMM: yes, usually 4 lanes. |
| 09:32.39 | [diablo] | bites yeah I know, it's ECS... but they build that mobo exclusivly for Medion, really there's no info |
| 09:32.50 | bites | well, that sucks. ^^ |
| 09:33.17 | [diablo] | sorry gotta run.. back shortly |
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| 09:38.23 | yareckonirc | thanks for the help folks, see you soon |
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| 10:41.29 | dziegler | Hi, i try to run the command "pbuilder-dist bionic create" as a sudo user. But I get the error "sudo: sorry, you are not allowed to set the following environment variables: ARCHITECTURE, DISTRIBUTION, ARCH, DIST, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS". Does anyone know how my sudoers file needs to look for pbuilder? I use "jenkins ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/pbuilder-dist, /usr/sbin/chroot, /usr/sbin/pbuilder" at the moment. |
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| 10:49.58 | kale | would you happen to know of a program in debian equivalent to the good old terminal emulator from windows XP? |
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| 10:50.35 | kale | hyperterm that is |
| 10:51.02 | Kelsar | or minicom, screen, they all can do serial |
| 10:51.32 | kale | i am doing tcp/ip though |
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| 10:52.58 | Pol__ | Holass alguen me contesta? |
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| 10:55.54 | oaken-source | Hi, is it possible to boot a netinst iso into a usable live system? |
| 10:55.58 | oaken-source | I only need a shell and apt. |
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| 10:56.37 | oaken-source | the boot menu only gives me 3 install options, and a rescue one. choosing the rescue option gives me a shell, but no apt. |
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| 11:09.27 | michael2 | oaken-source: the netinstaller is an installer - not a live session - it will try install files into a file system / block device |
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| 12:13.01 | rafalcpp | how to send, from console, an email - but using my normal email account (with login/pass/etc provided in cmdline, or better in a config file)? |
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| 12:29.46 | Craig_ | zardozzzz! zardozzzzzzzz! |
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| 12:29.51 | Craig_ | </film trailer> |
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| 13:20.20 | Truk_ | hello i have /bin/bash: source: No such file or directory when i do /bin/bash source $HOME/.profile |
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| 13:32.37 | vlt | Truk_: Tried `source ...`? |
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| 13:36.21 | Iridos | Truk_, what are you trying to do with that |
| 13:36.37 | Truk_ | i use docker |
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| 13:37.01 | Truk_ | when i do /bin/bash -c "source $HOME/.profile" in a dockerfile i have stdin: is not a tty |
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| 13:37.27 | Truk_ | but inside the container i have no problem |
| 13:38.09 | Iridos | rafalcpp, mutt and alpine can be configured to use external email accounts. I think all the simple commandline tools in unix just use your local account |
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| 13:41.41 | rafalcpp | Iridos: and you can send through mutt/alpine from cmd line (in a bash script)? |
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| 13:43.03 | Iridos | dunno, they're ncurses applications |
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| 13:45.31 | Iridos | you can configure your own email server to send mail through external accounts⦠but those aren't one-user solutions, as far as I remember⦠|
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| 13:49.00 | rafalcpp | :{ |
| 13:49.36 | bites | Truk_: source is a bash builtin not a binary. RUN in the docker file uses /bin/sh, which is symlinked to dash in debian, so source doesn't work. when you enter a container you likely specify /bin/bash as command. |
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| 14:29.29 | duser | I am investigating a laptop,which has wireless Realtek 802.11 b/g/n/ac 2x2 +Bluetooth 4.2 (vPro disabled), and AMD Ryzen⢠7 PRO 2700U processor. Basically it's hp elitebook |
| 14:29.52 | greycat | Ryzen is one of those bleeding edge things, isn't it... |
| 14:29.54 | duser | is there linux hardware website that might provide compatible info? |
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| 14:30.11 | duser | @greycat yes |
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| 14:30.40 | greycat | duser: it's highly unlikely that Debian stable will work on it; you MIGHT be able to get testing to install, or maybe not, I don't know |
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| 14:31.13 | somiaj | I think there are still some issue to work out with Ryzen, even in the newest kernels. Not quite sure, but someone here was going through a lot of effort to compile a kernel for rezyn to work in stable |
| 14:31.27 | shtrb | anyone have a suggestion for a UI that can get info from sensord or other sensor sources (like smartctl) ? |
| 14:31.37 | duser | yeah i generally use testing. |
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| 14:31.50 | somiaj | shtrb: conkey is one such tool |
| 14:31.57 | duser | @greycat i see thanks. |
| 14:32.03 | somiaj | shtrb: sorry, just conky |
| 14:32.13 | Meerkat | Is gnome-internet-radio-locator not available in Debian? |
| 14:32.27 | somiaj | shtrb: gkrellm is another, though I think conky is more popular these days. |
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| 14:32.38 | shtrb | thanks somiaj |
| 14:32.53 | shtrb | ,v conky |
| 14:32.54 | judd | Package: conky on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.9.0-2+deb7u1; jessie: 1.9.0-6; jessie-backports: 1.10.6-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.10.6-1; sid: 1.10.6-1.1; buster: 1.10.8-1; sid: 1.10.8-1 |
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| 14:36.39 | shtrb | somiaj, and am I asking too much if it would be able to read power readings ? (like knutclient) |
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| 14:38.35 | somiaj | shtrb: conky and gkrellm are both configurable and scriptable, they shoudl be able to read lots and lost of system info and you can build your own ui that displays it |
| 14:38.46 | somiaj | I don't use either, so I can't tell you more details than they should |
| 14:39.04 | somiaj | you can put network info, cpu info, logs, etc I belive |
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| 14:39.07 | somiaj | (as well) |
| 14:39.51 | shtrb | oh thanks again |
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| 14:42.09 | vandman_ | hi, in a bridge, Everything work when I share my phone connexion through usb cable. But it does not work when I share wifi. Does anyone knows why? |
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| 14:42.42 | vandman_ | whith bridge_ports enp0s20f0u1, it works fine. |
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| 14:43.18 | vandman_ | with bridge_ports enp0s20f0u1 wlp2s0, it does not work with the wifi? |
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| 14:52.58 | worldnet | #Koinange #Hillbrow #SvayPak #Sonagachi #AngelesCity #PatpongPattaya |
| 14:53.35 | greycat | are you going to make me kickban you, or are you going to go away on your own |
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| 14:57.21 | otyugh | hey there |
| 14:57.40 | otyugh | I was wondering with other people why the security repo isn't available in https ? |
| 14:58.10 | greycat | https://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com/ |
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| 14:58.39 | otyugh | Because signing ? |
| 14:59.18 | otyugh | greycat, I'm no security expert. What do you think of that : https://blog.packagecloud.io/eng/2018/02/21/attacks-against-secure-apt-repositories/ |
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| 15:02.02 | petn-randall | otyugh: Attack #1: If you disable GPG checks, you can push arbitrary code to the victim. DUH. |
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| 15:03.27 | petn-randall | Attack #2 doesn't even work because that's not how package downgrades work. I wonder if the author even tried it. |
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| 15:04.30 | abrotman | I thought netstat would be able to do this, but I don't see it .. Anyone aware of a way to get the number of sessions to a single port? I mean, I could for instance "netstat -an | grep ':443' | wc -l", but that seems dirty |
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| 15:06.16 | hicks | otyugh: apt over https makes sense as a default regardless of whether those attacks are valid or not imo. It's an extra line of defense that might cya should another bug be found where sigs are incorrectly checked or bypassable. |
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| 15:06.37 | greycat | abrotman: Probably nothing cleaner than ss -t | awk '$4 ~ /:1234$/{total++} END {print total}' |
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| 15:06.40 | hicks | that AllowInsecureRepositories part of attack 1, seems there's a bug report related to that https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=808367 |
| 15:06.41 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/808367 in apt (closed, security): «apt: defaults to allow insecure repos and documents it wrong»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-12-19; last modified: 2016-08-05. |
| 15:06.56 | greycat | abrotman: (untested) |
| 15:07.13 | TehRabbitt | hey i'm running into issues with not being able to run aptitude update... GPG errors galore. |
| 15:07.18 | TehRabbitt | relatively fresh install |
| 15:07.56 | petn-randall | !bat |
| 15:07.57 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 15:08.08 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: Can you provide *all* of the info above in a single paste? |
| 15:08.22 | TehRabbitt | petn-randall: yeah. give me a min. |
| 15:08.31 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: Sure, we've got time. |
| 15:08.55 | bites | petn-randall: replay attacks work. release files have a valid-until field to mitigate this, but that still leaves a window of a few days. |
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| 15:09.15 | shtrb | greycat, is that your site or something ? |
| 15:09.20 | abrotman | greycat: okay, thanks |
| 15:09.34 | greycat | shtrb: what, the apt not using https one? No. |
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| 15:09.51 | shtrb | yes , that is an amazing idea |
| 15:09.59 | hicks | I'd expect freeze attacks are viable too. People can use alternative means to download package info such as over tor and not over tor making it less likely both avenues would be blocked. |
| 15:10.08 | limbo_ | TehRabbitt: does it tell you what the missing keys are? |
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| 15:10.37 | TehRabbitt | limbo_: yes, but when I try to add them, it's still not working. |
| 15:11.06 | limbo_ | adding them is not working, or updating your software lists is not working? |
| 15:11.07 | petn-randall | bites: TLS won't stop replay attacks. Don't forget that the whole package mirroring assumed that the mirror server is not trustworthy. |
| 15:11.12 | abrotman | greycat: -tn, but otherwise, it's fine .. Cheers |
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| 15:11.50 | petn-randall | s/assumed/assumes/ |
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| 15:12.26 | bites | petn-randall: sure, doesn't help if the mirror is malicious, but it makes mitm harder. |
| 15:12.43 | TehRabbitt | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/ec330341/ |
| 15:13.01 | TehRabbitt | limbo_: updating software lists after adding them is not working. |
| 15:13.19 | limbo_ | https repos avoid problems coming from networks that mitm you to show a captive portal or something. |
| 15:13.20 | TehRabbitt | limbo_: above paste includes the run of the apt update. |
| 15:13.32 | petn-randall | bites: All those described attacks somehow assume that you disable GPG signature checking. And if that's the case, TLS won't help you. |
| 15:13.45 | limbo_ | TehRabbitt: apt-key is borked. |
| 15:13.58 | TehRabbitt | limbo_: how does that even happen o_o |
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| 15:14.20 | limbo_ | TehRabbitt: maybe it's not properly installed, or the config files are fugged. |
| 15:14.32 | limbo_ | I don't know, it's your machine. |
| 15:14.33 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: 'Unknown error executing apt-key' <-- this sounds like your installation is broken. How did you install? |
| 15:14.34 | TehRabbitt | limbo_: fresh install :\ |
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| 15:14.42 | limbo_ | run apt-key |
| 15:14.43 | TehRabbitt | petn-randall: clean iso install |
| 15:15.10 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: Which ISO? How did you prepare the installation medium? |
| 15:15.11 | bites | petn-randall: replay attacks replace current metadata with older metadata that still has a valid signatures to prevent updates. |
| 15:15.14 | TehRabbitt | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/81a867c9/ |
| 15:15.21 | limbo_ | petn-randall: disable PGP, or try to add a key from an unencrypted keyserver. |
| 15:15.32 | petn-randall | bites: So what? You can also do that attack via TLS by DoS. |
| 15:15.36 | limbo_ | petn-randall: e.g. if you use 32-bit key IDs. |
| 15:15.53 | TehRabbitt | petn-randall: it's a VM, straight from debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 15:16.22 | limbo_ | did the netinstall finish? |
| 15:16.25 | TehRabbitt | yes. |
| 15:16.29 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: Did you go through all installation steps by hand, or some automated install? |
| 15:16.29 | TehRabbitt | this was all working the past week |
| 15:16.32 | TehRabbitt | stopped working today. |
| 15:16.52 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: Does `apt-key list` run fine? |
| 15:16.57 | TehRabbitt | yes |
| 15:16.59 | petn-randall | guesses on FS corruption. |
| 15:17.01 | bites | petn-randall: you can't be serious. |
| 15:17.13 | bites | petn-randall: yes, you can also cut their cable. |
| 15:17.17 | petn-randall | bites: ? |
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| 15:18.37 | TehRabbitt | okay this *is* bizzare. |
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| 15:18.52 | TehRabbitt | I have an identical clone of the machine from yesterday, apt-update works fine. |
| 15:19.12 | bites | how important you value that potential attack vector is up to you, i personally don't think it's important. but i can see why someone would want to use https mirrors. |
| 15:19.30 | TehRabbitt | I can just use that machine and reclone it.... but it still makes me concerned why this is suddenly broken. All i've installed since yesterday is: 1.) python 2.) python-pip |
| 15:19.51 | petn-randall | bites: Ok, let's put it so: Given a replay attack, an attacker would have a small time window to delay updates on a server possibly going undetected, whereas other methods are easier to detect. Given that most mirrors don't offer TLS, and it might tempt users to assume that signature checking can be turned off because "it's encrypted", I'll always recommend to not use it. |
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| 15:20.23 | petn-randall | bites: The other thing is that you'll end up piping a lot of things through TLS handshakes and other TLS things, which is an attack vector itself. |
| 15:21.55 | TehRabbitt | okay on the clone system, I did an apt update / apt upgrade, it does a bunch of stuff and then returns at the end APT had planned for dpkg to do more than it reported back 40 vs 44 Affected packages: fail2ban |
| 15:22.17 | TehRabbitt | but it seems that one updates fine... |
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| 15:22.37 | Akuw | hi guys |
| 15:22.41 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: How did you install/upgrade python and python-pip? |
| 15:22.52 | TehRabbitt | apt install python-pip |
| 15:23.00 | TehRabbitt | 68 new packages to install. |
| 15:23.10 | TehRabbitt | i'm running the install on the clone to see if the same thing ahppens. |
| 15:23.25 | Akuw | i have a question related to rsync, suppose i have a dir1 with 10gb of files to copy to dir2 |
| 15:23.41 | TehRabbitt | I did notice it caused a dependency issue with gcc by installing python-pip before build-essential |
| 15:23.41 | Akuw | then when i run rsync this copy file changed ? |
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| 15:24.13 | TehRabbitt | okay, so yeah, idk what the hell happened to that box but it's borked. |
| 15:24.15 | TehRabbitt | ugh |
| 15:24.26 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: From the sounds of it, the first machine might already be broken. |
| 15:24.26 | Akuw | i am asking becuase every time i run rsync all list is showed |
| 15:24.38 | TehRabbitt | sounds like it... |
| 15:24.48 | TehRabbitt | libc had a version mismatch as well which was weird / strange |
| 15:25.23 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: Just running 'apt update && apt upgrade' it should seldomly install new packages, and there should never be any held back packages. |
| 15:25.51 | TehRabbitt | on the original one? it won't even update. |
| 15:25.55 | TehRabbitt | complains about the apt-key thing |
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| 15:26.00 | TehRabbitt | the clone from yesterday works fine. |
| 15:26.31 | TehRabbitt | I'm going to just have to use the "good" one, take a VM snapshot and clone it again |
| 15:26.44 | TehRabbitt | Just frustrating why suddenly APT stopped working |
| 15:26.57 | petn-randall | TehRabbitt: I'm guessing that something got corrupted during cloning. |
| 15:26.58 | mikeymop | Does anyone know how to remove a package using dpkg |
| 15:27.03 | mikeymop | I can't use apt |
| 15:27.10 | greycat | mikeymop: dpkg --remove, or dpkg --purge |
| 15:27.21 | petn-randall | mikeymop: No surveys please, you can ask your real question though. |
| 15:27.30 | petn-randall | mikeymop: Why can't you use apt? |
| 15:27.33 | TehRabbitt | I did have to install dirmngr because apparently it wasn't installed on the clone;. |
| 15:27.33 | mikeymop | thank you! |
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| 15:28.32 | mikeymop | petn-randall: I am using Fedora currently, and have a propriatary software that is only available as a .deb. I tried alien but it didn't work, however fedora has dpkg in their repos so I wanted to try just using dpkg. (needed to know a way to go back should it fail) |
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| 15:28.42 | mikeymop | what survey? |
| 15:29.15 | somiaj | mikeymop: you should ask fedora support how to best handel installing .deb software on their system. |
| 15:29.22 | mikeymop | they suggested alien |
| 15:29.33 | mikeymop | but the resulting package failed |
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| 15:30.13 | somiaj | still asking #debian to support fedora and some propriatary nonfree software (which isn't in debian) is not going to do much good. |
| 15:30.40 | mikeymop | I've been all over already |
| 15:30.54 | mikeymop | greycat was the only person who didn't just redirect |
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| 15:31.17 | mikeymop | I was at the point of reading a user script who attempted it |
| 15:31.53 | TehRabbitt | Okay so that is bizzare... rebooting it fixed everything |
| 15:32.00 | TehRabbitt | i'm going to go with FS Corruption. |
| 15:32.08 | TehRabbitt | petn-randall: fixed 2 inoes during boot |
| 15:32.10 | TehRabbitt | inodes* |
| 15:32.20 | TehRabbitt | most likely like you said, during the cloning it messed with things. |
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| 15:34.19 | greycat | mikeymop: that's because the others are actually trying to help you, while I was simply being lazy |
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| 15:35.39 | mikeymop | strange, I felt the opposite |
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| 15:35.57 | mikeymop | almost as strange as dpkg being in RHEL repos xD |
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| 15:37.16 | greycat | ,v rpm |
| 15:37.17 | judd | Package: rpm on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.10.0-5+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 4.10.0-5+deb7u2; jessie: 4.11.3-1.1; jessie-backports: 4.12.0.2+dfsg1-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 4.12.0.2+dfsg1-2; buster: 4.14.1+dfsg1-3; sid: 4.14.1+dfsg1-3 |
| 15:37.26 | somiaj | the nature of propriatary software is to seek support from the owners/makers of said software. |
| 15:37.29 | greycat | Just because it's there doesn't mean you should use it. |
| 15:37.49 | somiaj | and installing random packages with it could cause unforseen affects and break y our system. |
| 15:38.11 | greycat | (Or at least, don't use the dangerous parts of it. Using rpm to query the contents of a .rpm file on Debian is perfectly safe.) |
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| 15:42.42 | mikeymop | Yea I presumed both linages have the other distro's package utility for the purpose of facilitating conversions |
| 15:43.57 | Akuw | i am using rsync and destination is bigger than source |
| 15:44.02 | Akuw | little diference |
| 15:44.05 | Akuw | why? |
| 15:44.17 | Akuw | i delete all in destination and run rsync again |
| 15:44.24 | Akuw | but little diference again |
| 15:44.26 | greycat | Different file system types? |
| 15:44.27 | petn-randall | Akuw: What is the actual command you're running? What do you get? What do you expect? |
| 15:44.37 | greycat | Different block sizes, etc.? |
| 15:45.01 | greycat | Also, are you measuring the "size" with df, or with du? |
| 15:45.02 | Akuw | rsync -aivr /home/kenny/AndroidStudioProjects/ copy/ |
| 15:45.09 | Akuw | du |
| 15:46.03 | Akuw | source total: 152672 Destination: 152960 |
| 15:46.08 | greycat | Remember that du and df report disk blocks, which may be larger than the files, and the two systems may have different file system block sizes. |
| 15:46.14 | greycat | wooledg:~$ echo x > onebyte; du -sh onebyte |
| 15:46.14 | greycat | 4.0K onebyte |
| 15:46.23 | Akuw | hummmmm |
| 15:46.26 | Akuw | ok |
| 15:46.38 | greycat | (well, two bytes, because echo adds \n but still) |
| 15:46.39 | petn-randall | Akuw: -r is redundant when using -a. Also, if you don't use --delete in some form, you might end up with more file in dest than in source. |
| 15:46.54 | Akuw | ok |
| 15:47.15 | Akuw | --delete is to delete in destination when any file or folder is deleted in source right? |
| 15:47.29 | petn-randall | Akuw: Without --delete, it will leave an extra files that are in dest but not source on the disk. |
| 15:47.32 | petn-randall | *any |
| 15:47.43 | Akuw | ok |
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| 16:06.44 | joejoejoe | Hello! |
| 16:06.51 | joejoejoe | How can I get sound on Debian? |
| 16:07.32 | swickrotation | joejoejoe alsamixer perhaps? What's the problem |
| 16:07.49 | joejoejoe | Oh, I already have sound! |
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| 16:08.05 | petn-randall | joejoejoe: Glad we could help :) |
| 16:08.10 | swickrotation | hahahah |
| 16:08.13 | swickrotation | :) |
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| 16:08.30 | mnuhmnuh | ready, shoot, aim. oh, wait. |
| 16:09.38 | joejoejoe | But only in Chromium. |
| 16:09.42 | joejoejoe | Not in FireFox. |
| 16:09.43 | joejoejoe | Why? |
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| 16:09.59 | swickrotation | huh, that's weird! |
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| 16:10.25 | swickrotation | Have you checked the firefox settings? That sounds more like a firefox problem than an anything |
| 16:10.36 | swickrotation | anything* |
| 16:10.38 | joejoejoe | swickrotation: FF has sound settings? |
| 16:10.40 | greycat | recent firefox doesn't have ALSA sound support; only PulseAudi |
| 16:10.48 | swickrotation | Ooooh |
| 16:10.51 | mnuhmnuh | are you sure? maybe chromium's the only one using good volume? |
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| 16:13.45 | joejoejoe | Is there anything I can do to get sound in Firefox? |
| 16:14.40 | swickrotation | If there's pulseaudi support, you probs have to download the associated packages for pulseaudi |
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| 16:14.51 | swickrotation | which uh, might just be pulseaudi idk for sure |
| 16:15.11 | joejoejoe | swickrotation: What do you mean? I'm a debian newby. |
| 16:15.21 | joejoejoe | Used Mint before. In Mint sound just worked. |
| 16:16.14 | swickrotation | what desktop environment are you using |
| 16:16.24 | joejoejoe | Mate |
| 16:16.41 | swickrotation | ok, open up a terminal and try typing pavucontrol |
| 16:17.13 | swickrotation | get anything? |
| 16:17.25 | joejoejoe | Yes |
| 16:17.30 | joejoejoe | bash: pavucontrol: command not found |
| 16:17.35 | swickrotation | hahaha |
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| 16:17.46 | swickrotation | I would call that getting nothing, but that works too! |
| 16:18.24 | swickrotation | ok, so it looks like you don't have pulse audio, which is a little weird I think! Did you go on a sweep removing some excess packages? |
| 16:18.33 | greycat | Or he never installed it to begin with. |
| 16:18.53 | swickrotation | Should come automatically with mate according to debian wiki |
| 16:18.54 | greycat | Which is typically the case if you don't install one of the big Desktop Environments. |
| 16:19.21 | joejoejoe | I installed mate-desktop-environment |
| 16:19.25 | joejoejoe | Chromium has sound. |
| 16:20.01 | greycat | Bot says there's mate-desktop-environment-extras for "more things" |
| 16:20.06 | swickrotation | ok just to be super sure, would you type sudo dpkg --list |
| 16:20.13 | greycat | you don't need sudo for that |
| 16:20.53 | joejoejoe | "dpkg --list | grep -i pulse" shows some stuff about pulse. |
| 16:20.58 | swickrotation | lol I've been muscle memory-ing a sudo into dpkg --list for like a year then |
| 16:21.12 | swickrotation | huh |
| 16:21.17 | greycat | ,file bin/pavucontrol |
| 16:21.22 | judd | Search for bin/pavucontrol in stretch/amd64: pavucontrol: usr/bin/pavucontrol; pavucontrol-dbg: usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/pavucontrol |
| 16:21.40 | joejoejoe | ? |
| 16:22.14 | greycat | Looks like pavucontrol is a separate package. |
| 16:22.31 | greycat | That might be one of those "extras" the bot was talking about in the "install mate" factoid. |
| 16:23.07 | joejoejoe | when I type "pulseaudio" on the command line it says there is no command with that name. |
| 16:23.13 | joejoejoe | So I guess I have it not installed? |
| 16:23.36 | greycat | seems so |
| 16:24.06 | joejoejoe | so "apt-install pulseaudio"? |
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| 16:25.37 | joejoejoe | I will just try 'apt install pulseaudio' |
| 16:25.54 | swickrotation | that's the way |
| 16:26.26 | joejoejoe | I HAVE SOUND! |
| 16:26.33 | swickrotation | That's a weird thing though, I don't have pulseaudio either but have no problems with firefox |
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| 16:26.37 | swickrotation | are you using quantum? |
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| 16:26.47 | somiaj | most things can use pulse or alsa |
| 16:26.58 | greycat | I think even the current firefox-esr is already Pulse-only. |
| 16:26.59 | somiaj | it is only silly software that only supports pulse |
| 16:27.02 | joejoejoe | swickrotation: no idea |
| 16:27.04 | swickrotation | ^^ |
| 16:27.07 | greycat | I wouldn't know; I just use chrome for youtube. |
| 16:27.12 | swickrotation | lolol |
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| 16:27.23 | megaTherion | why use chrome if firefox works |
| 16:27.24 | somiaj | yea, I use chrome as well, so never noticed my firefox didn't make sound |
| 16:27.35 | swickrotation | wait really? I've got an up to date esr afaik and no problems |
| 16:27.46 | megaTherion | ditto |
| 16:27.54 | greycat | swickrotation: maybe I'm wrong, then |
| 16:28.01 | swickrotation | maybe |
| 16:28.07 | joejoejoe | Ok, cu! |
| 16:28.08 | swickrotation | spooky stuff either way |
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| 16:28.55 | swickrotation | I mean I had some problems trying to update firefox like 6 months ago, so it could be that I just *think* firefox is up to date |
| 16:29.21 | swickrotation | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 16:29.49 | greycat | Can't test it here at work; no speakers or headphones available. |
| 16:29.55 | somiaj | well firefox esr depends on libasound2 and not pulse |
| 16:30.39 | somiaj | the newest firefox in sid also depends on libasound2 |
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| 16:31.02 | swickrotation | neato |
| 16:31.05 | somiaj | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=857281 |
| 16:31.07 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/857281 in src:firefox-esr (closed): «firefox-esr: Compile with --enable-alsa»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2017-03-09; last modified: 2017-04-15. |
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| 16:32.31 | swickrotation | totally unrelated: back when I used Ubuntu and Unity like, a year ago, I had a semi-translucent terminal and I'd really like that back |
| 16:32.53 | swickrotation | Using gnome 3 rn and debian stretch, anyone have thoughts? |
| 16:33.00 | somiaj | either use a compositor like compton or a fake transpency terminal like aterm |
| 16:33.06 | somiaj | (well one that supports fake transparency) |
| 16:33.29 | swickrotation | tight |
| 16:36.03 | greycat | So if I'm reading this right, upstream Firefox ESR removed ALSA support and then Debian patched it back in? |
| 16:36.21 | somiaj | it seems upstream still supports building with alsa, but their binaries don't include it |
| 16:36.35 | somiaj | so they didn't reomove the support, just stopped building with it |
| 16:37.04 | somiaj | (they probably also don't support it, if in the future that build option were to disappear) |
| 16:37.10 | somiaj | I mean just be buggy/notwork |
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| 17:10.54 | limbo_ | Can anyone suggest a proxy server with configurable cache management, and the ability to pre-emptivly fetch/cache things? |
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| 17:24.19 | petn-randall | limbo_: proxy for what exactly? |
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| 17:27.29 | limbo_ | web traffic. |
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| 17:29.00 | petn-randall | limbo_: squid then. If you want one to pre-emptively fetch things, there's probably none. |
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| 17:29.58 | greycat | Pre-fetching is usually a browser thing. |
| 17:30.24 | greycat | The most common question I've ever seen regarding pre-fetching is "How do I make it STOP this, it's eating all my pay-by-the-gigabyte bandwidth!" |
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| 17:34.33 | mnuhmnuh | and draining my battery. |
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| 17:41.31 | m712 | hi, when i install a debian package that contains a service, the systemd service is automatically enabled. i do not want this to happen, is there a way to disable this automatic enabling? |
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| 17:43.19 | d9867eb | hi mates, I have a problem |
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| 17:44.05 | d9867eb | https://www.reddit.com/r/linux4noobs/comments/8t1rll/bind9_ns1apelsinla_has_no_address_records_a_or/ |
| 17:44.25 | annadane | !devuan |
| 17:44.25 | dpkg | Devuan (https://devuan.org/) is a Debian <derivative>, meant to avoid dependencies on <systemd>. Not supported in #debian, please see #devuan on chat.freenode.net for support. |
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| 17:45.45 | annadane | you can possibly also try ##networking |
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| 17:46.46 | d9867eb | ok |
| 17:46.49 | d9867eb | thanks |
| 17:48.22 | somiaj | m712: look at policy-rc.d, all packages should use invoke-rc.d to start, and you can disable this by setting policy-rc.d for the service |
| 17:48.43 | simNIX | Hello - looking for some reading advice - I want to collect a lot files to install in tftp server and describe howto use that to booot of nic - I wonder how I make a apt package to make it install those files |
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| 17:50.37 | somiaj | simNIX: why must it be an apt package? I don't really see your overall goal? Are you wanting to setup some pxe boot image? |
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| 17:53.35 | simNIX | intent to make it easy for popele to use a network booted tftp server with a menu to in stall all i can get in - so comon linux flavours and move setups and tools |
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| 17:54.37 | simNIX | *move=more |
| 17:55.59 | somiaj | I don't see how an apt package helps with this, once you make a pxe boot image, you can configure the boot image you are using however you like. If you want it to be a live image, maybe look into live-build |
| 17:56.13 | somiaj | though most people don't use ftp these days, I find ssh + scp better |
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| 17:56.40 | simNIX | on topic why apt need you got a point |
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| 17:57.35 | simNIX | the secure protocols are not available if you boot diskless the menu |
| 17:58.22 | simNIX | I use it as a tooldbox always handy for any computer that can network boot |
| 17:58.39 | simNIX | I expect more could have use of it |
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| 17:59.01 | somiaj | well I don't see why that is the case, pxe (or network) boot is just a method to boot an image, you could use ssh instead of tftp, but that is besides the point, just a suggestion since ftp is fairly insecure. |
| 17:59.37 | somiaj | anyways, this isn't specifically a debian support question, but if you are wanting to use debian as this pxe boot image, maybe a live image is what you want to build, and debian has tools to build custom live images, look at the live-build |
| 18:00.06 | somiaj | and you can put whatever packages, de or wm, and meus and various other things you want in the live image. |
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| 18:00.58 | simNIX | thats also an interesting route to take - contain the toolbox in a live Debian |
| 18:01.58 | simNIX | other then get preseed with htttps ive not yet found in past solutions with secure protocols |
| 18:02.15 | simNIX | makes it a good one to read up on |
| 18:02.26 | simNIX | thanks for your time responding |
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| 18:05.08 | simNIX | still courious as to howto to make deb package but google can help me there |
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| 18:18.16 | pacha | hey everyone |
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| 18:19.18 | pacha | I logged in today and sound was not working for my user, but it works for root (sudo aplay sound-file works). It is unmuted, and I cant see my main sound card on pavucontrol |
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| 18:20.39 | greycat | Do you get an error? |
| 18:20.40 | Iridos | owncloud-client is packaged for debian, but the server is not? why? |
| 18:20.51 | greycat | Or does it sit there playing and you can't hear it? |
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| 18:21.26 | pacha | greycat: no errors in my GUI, no idea what log file should I check. and yes, the music player is "playing music", but no audio |
| 18:22.00 | greycat | oh, it's a gui? well hell. |
| 18:22.07 | greycat | No telling what's happening then. |
| 18:22.37 | pacha | greycat: when I say GUI I mean window manager |
| 18:23.08 | Iridos | uuh⦠https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=648674 |
| 18:23.09 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/648674 in wnpp (closed): «ITP: owncloud -- ownCloud - web services under control»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2011-11-13; last modified: 2012-06-24. |
| 18:23.34 | greycat | pacha: if it's not a command that you run in a terminal then you don't even KNOW whether there were errors, unless you can be sure you've found where stderr is going and look there and see some. |
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| 18:23.57 | greycat | If you look where you think stderr is going and DON'T see errors then you don't even know whether you're looking in the right place. |
| 18:24.10 | greycat | Diagnosing a misbehaving GUI is a pain. |
| 18:24.15 | BCMM | pacha: what distro are you using, and do you use pulseaudio? |
| 18:24.23 | pacha | greycat: aplay from terminal without root: no errors, no audio |
| 18:25.10 | pacha | BCMM: Debian testing, and yes I am using pulseaudio |
| 18:25.18 | greycat | pacha: but it "hangs" (runs for non-infinitesimal time) as if it's playing? Then it's gotta be muted channels or something, right? |
| 18:25.36 | greycat | I mean, you ruled out actual hardware by getting sound as root. |
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| 18:26.09 | pacha | greycat: yes, running with sudo works. also I added my username to the "audio" group, rebooted and same problem |
| 18:26.34 | greycat | Sorry, sounds like you need someone who knows the internals of pulseaudio. |
| 18:26.45 | pacha | greycat: thanks for the help anyway |
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| 18:27.11 | pacha | I think it might have to do with not enough permissions on a particular device after some upgrade that messed with my configs, no idea which one might be |
| 18:27.25 | BCMM | pacha: see if you can eliminate pa from your experiments with pasuspender |
| 18:27.59 | BCMM | pacha: if you don't have the right permission for some dev node, but you're in audio, i reckon that would be a bug... |
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| 18:28.40 | greycat | If it were a permissions issue, I would expect a terminal command to emit an error containing either "Permission denied" or "Operation not permitted" |
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| 18:29.00 | greycat | If you don't see either of those, it's probably not permission-based. |
| 18:29.23 | somiaj | you should ask in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, and then look up the timidity bug |
| 18:29.44 | somiaj | timidity is taking over the sound card before pulse runs, and cheap sound cards without hardware mixing can't have two programs grabbing them at the saem time |
| 18:29.45 | BCMM | pacha: at the risk of stating the obvious, just because you're using aplay doesn't mean it's not going through pulse anyway |
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| 18:30.19 | somiaj | or tmididity's service (this bug is documented in the bts) has grabbed ahold of the sound card and isn't letting other thigns play with it) |
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| 18:30.27 | pacha | BCMM: what should I try? I also used mpv (video player) as root and it was working. |
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| 18:32.12 | pacha | BCMM: pasuspender -- command: no audio. pasuspender -- sudo command: audio works. |
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| 18:36.20 | pacha | somiaj: oh man thank you. I removed timidity and the audio is back, thank you so much |
| 18:36.33 | pacha | I hope that thing isnt important, whatever |
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| 18:49.19 | Iridos | it's curious that you could play sound as root, though⦠if the device is blocked by a process, it's blocked |
| 18:49.22 | Iridos | that seems wrong |
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| 18:51.10 | somiaj | pacha: in the future use #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, memebers of that channel are more famialr with the common bugs in testing/unstable |
| 18:51.39 | somiaj | Iridos: it does, though alsa should have dmix enabled by default, maybe the users .asoundrc or something is only enabling dmix for root |
| 18:52.14 | somiaj | oh wait, root is probabaly running the tmididty service, so dmix is only enabled for root, since a root process has grabed the device |
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| 18:55.00 | Iridos | tmididty? |
| 18:55.14 | annadane | ,i timidity |
| 18:55.15 | judd | Package timidity (sound, optional) in stretch/amd64: Software sound renderer (MIDI sequencer, MOD player). Version: 2.13.2-40.5; Size: 566.0k; Installed: 1421k; Homepage: http://timidity.sourceforge.net/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/timidity; O: #886347 |
| 18:55.23 | Iridos | ah, timidity |
| 18:55.34 | annadane | somiaj told me about that command, now i must spam it constantly |
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| 18:56.22 | somiaj | regrets informing annadane about info |
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| 18:56.31 | somiaj | well /s |
| 18:56.32 | mnuhmnuh | ,i spam |
| 18:56.33 | judd | No package named 'spam' was found in stretch/amd64. |
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| 18:58.29 | Peyam | hi. I'm searching for a simple cad program that uses gtk |
| 18:58.38 | Peyam | qt libraries take lots of place |
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| 19:01.09 | mnuhmnuh | ,i cad |
| 19:01.10 | judd | No package named 'cad' was found in stretch/amd64. |
| 19:01.30 | Peyam | mnuhmnuh, librecad is good but it is based on qt |
| 19:02.40 | somiaj | maybe kicad, it sounds like kde cad |
| 19:02.53 | somiaj | oh wait, nevermind, wrong cad, that is for electronics |
| 19:03.10 | somiaj | I don't see any cad softare based on qt in debian stretch |
| 19:03.43 | mnuhmnuh | cad is one of those "doesn't play well in FLOSS" things. long tail stuff. |
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| 19:07.03 | mnuhmnuh | ,i autocad |
| 19:07.04 | judd | No package named 'autocad' was found in stretch/amd64. |
| 19:07.46 | annadane | i'm not sure autocad could even be packaged for debian, besides being proprietary i think you need a license |
| 19:08.52 | mnuhmnuh | just what i'm saying. that's one secure bastion. |
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| 19:21.48 | no_gravity | What is a good way to install a small linux distro with a gui? |
| 19:22.00 | no_gravity | Just the Debian net installer and then install a small desktop? |
| 19:22.06 | greycat | download Debian netinst+firmware, write it to a CD, boot the CD, install Standard only. |
| 19:22.21 | no_gravity | greycat: Ok, and then which desktop? |
| 19:22.29 | greycat | Then after booting, install whatever drivers/firmware is needed, xorg, and your favorite WM. |
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| 19:22.37 | greycat | Why would you use a desktop? |
| 19:22.55 | no_gravity | I have no idea. Never used Debian with a GUI but without a Desktop. |
| 19:23.01 | no_gravity | What is a small WM? |
| 19:23.58 | greycat | Anything that ends with "wm" or "box". |
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| 19:24.12 | greycat | Whatever you normally used before GNOME and KDE existed. |
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| 19:24.45 | greycat | Unless you came from the commercial Unix world and somehow had to use CDE, in which case I pity you. |
| 19:25.37 | no_gravity | I don't know what I used before Gnome. As far as I remembered I always used Gnome 2. And still do. |
| 19:26.21 | greycat | Well, I use fvwm, but I don't want to bias you toward or against any particular WM. |
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| 19:26.55 | no_gravity | I just want to build a small VM to play with. |
| 19:27.03 | no_gravity | I want it to not take up much space. |
| 19:27.17 | no_gravity | Something that runs in VirtualBox. |
| 19:27.42 | greycat | You can get a nice list of them from "apt-cache showpkg x-window-manager" |
| 19:27.46 | annadane | i3's fairly minimal, tiling, keyboard focused |
| 19:28.02 | greycat | At the end, under "Reverse Provides:" |
| 19:28.08 | annadane | though i guess you have to do a bit of reading to learn how to use it |
| 19:28.32 | no_gravity | Since Mate uses Marco as its window manager, maybe I should use that one? |
| 19:29.05 | greycat | It's a very subjective decision, much like selecting a text editor. |
| 19:29.14 | no_gravity | I will try Marco then. |
| 19:29.17 | greycat | Ultimately you have to try some and see if you like them. |
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| 19:29.24 | no_gravity | Well, I know I like Mate. |
| 19:30.06 | no_gravity | Will 'apt install marco' be enough to run desktop aps? How do I start it then? Just 'startx'? |
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| 19:31.06 | greycat | You need to install "xorg" and your WM of choice. |
| 19:31.26 | no_gravity | greycat: Isn't marco the WM of my choice? |
| 19:31.28 | greycat | It's possible to get it smaller than that, but that's the basic way. |
| 19:31.55 | greycat | The point is you cannot JUST install the WM. You also have to install "xorg", or manually specify all the server and core-client stuff. |
| 19:32.14 | no_gravity | So I will do 'apt install xorg marco'? |
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| 19:32.26 | greycat | sure |
| 19:32.35 | no_gravity | And then 'startx' to start it? |
| 19:32.44 | annadane | you may need xinit for startx |
| 19:32.50 | annadane | if xorg doesn't auto install it |
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| 19:33.00 | no_gravity | Uh oh. Maybe I should just install a desktop... |
| 19:33.19 | annadane | xinit is like, kilobytes |
| 19:33.32 | no_gravity | so 'apt install xorg marco xinit'? |
| 19:33.39 | annadane | sure |
| 19:33.42 | no_gravity | Ok |
| 19:34.00 | no_gravity | And then I can run - say - firefox on top of it? |
| 19:34.18 | greycat | yes |
| 19:34.22 | no_gravity | ok |
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| 19:36.35 | greycat | xorg explicitly Depends: xinit, so you don't have to specify that manually |
| 19:36.40 | no_gravity | ok |
| 19:36.47 | no_gravity | so 'apt install xorg marco' i guess |
| 19:37.09 | greycat | You'll figure it out. |
| 19:37.13 | greycat | It's not that hard. |
| 19:37.42 | no_gravity | The Debian installer is running... |
| 19:37.56 | no_gravity | I wonder how often I did that in my life. |
| 19:38.11 | no_gravity | Debian has been my daily driver since version 1 or 2 as far as I remember. |
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| 19:42.51 | annadane | i'm probably up to 60+ at this point |
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| 19:48.21 | no_gravity | Does anybody know how to copy a file into a virtualbox guest? |
| 19:48.51 | greycat | Oh, this is a vm thingy... you may need those guest extensions, um... (no that has nothing to do with copying a file into it) |
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| 19:49.57 | greycat | !vbox guest |
| 19:49.58 | dpkg | For Debian VMs (guests) under VirtualBox, install the virtualbox-guest-utils package (from <stretch-backports>) inside the guest to provide Guest Additions; Linux kernel modules are built automatically by <dkms>. For MS Windows guests, install the virtualbox-guest-additions-iso package on the host (see <non-free sources>) and see https://virtualbox.org/manual/ch04.html for installation instructions. |
| 19:50.13 | no_gravity | greycat: Why do I need guest extensions? |
| 19:50.44 | no_gravity | Maybe I can ssh into it and copy the file via scp? |
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| 19:51.22 | greycat | Maybe? I have no idea. |
| 19:52.36 | no_gravity | Download of xorg + marco is 500 MB ... |
| 19:53.09 | greycat | How much for just xorg? |
| 19:54.47 | no_gravity | greycat: Dunno. I did 'apt install xorg marco' |
| 19:55.48 | farruinn | no_gravity: --no-install-recommends can be helpful switch for apt-get when doing a minimal install |
| 19:56.03 | no_gravity | farruinn: Ah. Well, now it's already running. |
| 19:56.17 | farruinn | just examine the list of excluded packages to determine if maybe you need them. |
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| 19:56.26 | no_gravity | Well, too late. |
| 19:56.54 | no_gravity | It's installing weird stuff like libstreamer-bad :) |
| 19:56.58 | greycat | I'm thinking "marco" may be pulling in a substantial chunk of GNOME or whatever it's supposed to be part of. |
| 19:56.59 | no_gravity | I doubt I need that. |
| 19:57.44 | no_gravity | I sometimes think we are moving towards a future where every package is somehow connected to every other package. |
| 19:57.57 | no_gravity | So as soon as you install *anything* you install *everything*. |
| 19:57.59 | greycat | It depends on "mate-desktop-common" which is probably what's doing it. |
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| 19:58.12 | greycat | or maybe not. |
| 19:58.18 | annadane | debian is a bit like that yeah |
| 19:58.23 | annadane | fine for those who can afford the space |
| 19:58.31 | annadane | for those who can't or don't want to, --no-install-recommends |
| 19:58.54 | no_gravity | Recently I installed 'webpack' to have asset routing in a php project. And it pulled in like 400MB of javascript packages :/ |
| 19:59.11 | no_gravity | That was the day I decided I will write my own asset router. |
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| 20:01.01 | annadane | i've sometimes wondered whether i should always --no-install-recommends on everything but it's probably too much hassle |
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| 20:01.22 | no_gravity | It finished intalling xorg+marco :) |
| 20:01.26 | annadane | in future i may do that, idk |
| 20:01.44 | greycat | no_gravity: if startx doesn't work, then maybe look into that vbox guest stuff. |
| 20:01.46 | no_gravity | startx gives me a black screen with a mouse pointer :) |
| 20:01.59 | no_gravity | Now how do I start something from that black screen? |
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| 20:03.20 | greycat | I have no idea how marco works. It's your WM. Try clicking and holding each of the 3 mouse buttons. |
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| 20:03.57 | no_gravity | I tried it. Nothing happens. |
| 20:04.03 | somiaj | annadane: you can configure apt to not install recommends by default. This is not suggested, as most users will need recommended packages. |
| 20:04.30 | somiaj | annadane: in general recommend = you most likely need, suggested = things that are related, but you may or may not need. |
| 20:04.41 | annadane | true. |
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| 20:05.03 | annadane | --always-install-suggests :P |
| 20:05.06 | somiaj | (of course there is no clear line, and what some people think should be suggested others reocommended and visa versa) |
| 20:05.39 | somiaj | well configure apt in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d (though maybe this is a preference, so preferences.d, I forget) |
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| 20:27.22 | no_gravity | Strange, when I run startx as root, it works. But then I do it as a normal user, I end up in a black screen with a little white terminal. |
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| 20:28.33 | abrotman | Did you set your WM correctly for your usre? |
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| 20:29.07 | no_gravity | abrotman: I did not set anything. Just did 'apt install mate-desktop-environment-core'. |
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| 20:29.17 | abrotman | and you're not using a DM? |
| 20:29.28 | no_gravity | abrotman: I don't even know what that is. |
| 20:29.33 | abrotman | like GDM3 |
| 20:29.36 | abrotman | dpkg: dm |
| 20:29.37 | dpkg | DM means Display Manager, the app that brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session. <lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, <kdm>, <wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable the DM. Or Debian Maintainer: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMaintainer . For the deb-multimedia repository, ask me about <dmm>. |
| 20:29.59 | no_gravity | abrotman: It's a fresh debian install + 'apt install mate-desktop-environment-core'. |
| 20:30.16 | abrotman | did you install the 'xorg' package? Do you want a GUI login? |
| 20:31.04 | no_gravity | abrotman: Yes, at first I did 'apt install xorg marco' but then after startx all I got was a black screen with a mouse pointer. So I did 'apt install mate-desktop-environment-core'. |
| 20:31.10 | no_gravity | abrotman: That's all I did. |
| 20:31.10 | greycat | He installed xorg and "marco" which is apparently a part of mate or gnome or somnething. |
| 20:31.26 | abrotman | no_gravity: Do you want a GUI login? or would you rather be using startx? |
| 20:31.33 | greycat | He has not installed the vbox guest stuff yet AFAIK. |
| 20:31.43 | no_gravity | abrotman: It would be nice if the machine automatically starts x. |
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| 20:32.03 | no_gravity | greycat: True. |
| 20:32.43 | abrotman | no_gravity: then I'd suggest a DM from the list above ... slim and lightdm both work well enough. GDM3 is nice, but probably pulls in a lot of Gnome3 stuff |
| 20:33.38 | no_gravity | abrotman: Now I am confused. I only want to startx on startup |
| 20:33.52 | abrotman | huh? |
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| 20:34.10 | abrotman | install slim, see if it works .. if you don't like it, you can remove it |
| 20:34.17 | no_gravity | abrotman: 'like it'? |
| 20:34.29 | abrotman | like 'slim' |
| 20:34.34 | no_gravity | abrotman: What is there to like about a script that just does 'startx'? |
| 20:34.42 | greycat | It's not a script. |
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| 20:34.44 | abrotman | you said you wanted X to start automatically ... |
| 20:34.46 | greycat | It doesn't run startx. |
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| 20:36.14 | no_gravity | couldnt it just put it in bashrc or something? |
| 20:36.58 | greycat | .bashrc would be the wrong place for it. .profile MIGHT work but only if you wrap it in a check that you are logged in on tty1 or something. |
| 20:37.18 | no_gravity | Yeah, would need a step to not do it on every fricking launch of a terminal. |
| 20:37.36 | abrotman | he probably wants |
| 20:37.42 | abrotman | dpkg: .xsession |
| 20:37.42 | dpkg | Debian uses ~/.xsession for startx(1) as well as *most* Display Manager logins. See https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession |
| 20:37.43 | no_gravity | (I said frickin instead of fucking because of some guy complaining about fucking above) |
| 20:37.43 | greycat | In any case, get startx WORKING before you automate it. |
| 20:38.13 | abrotman | if you're going to launch straight into X, why not use a DM? |
| 20:38.17 | no_gravity | greycat: Maybe I will just run it as root :) A single user machine has its upsides :) |
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| 20:38.29 | no_gravity | abrotman: I have no idea what a DM is. |
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| 20:38.39 | greycat | Graphical login screen. |
| 20:38.51 | no_gravity | I don't want a fuc*ing login screen. |
| 20:39.18 | no_gravity | Maybe I should hire somebody to type 'startx' everytime I switch my machine on. |
| 20:39.44 | somiaj | !nodm |
| 20:39.44 | dpkg | In systemd, "systemctl set-default multi-user.target", or remove the DM package(s) with "aptitude remove gdm3 kdm lightdm lxdm nodm sddm slim wdm xdm". "echo false >/etc/X11/default-display-manager" will also disable the DM, or just hit ctrl-alt-fN to get to a console. nodm is the name of a minimal/automatic display manager (https://github.com/spanezz/nodm). |
| 20:39.45 | greycat | echo 'if test "$(tty)" = /dev/tty1; then startx; fi' >> ~/.profile |
| 20:39.48 | somiaj | though most suggest you don't use such a thing |
| 20:39.50 | greycat | There, be happy. |
| 20:39.58 | no_gravity | greycat: Awesome |
| 20:40.11 | somiaj | nodm will automatically log you in and startx |
| 20:40.14 | abrotman | insanity ... |
| 20:40.31 | no_gravity | somiaj: nodm sounds good. I have used that before on another machine! |
| 20:41.07 | greycat | Does your X session actually WORK yet? |
| 20:41.18 | no_gravity | greycat: When I startx as root yes. |
| 20:41.24 | greycat | So "no". |
| 20:41.50 | somiaj | so automatically running xorg as root, sounds like a recipie for distater |
| 20:42.05 | no_gravity | somiaj: What type of desaster? |
| 20:42.37 | somiaj | any application can run any code on any part of your machine if running xorg as root |
| 20:42.50 | greycat | Distater, the Mr. Potato Head version of https://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dispater |
| 20:42.52 | somiaj | in general this is considered a bad idea for obvious reasons. |
| 20:42.58 | no_gravity | somiaj: There must be a relevant xkcd about that... |
| 20:43.14 | no_gravity | somiaj: Yes: https://xkcd.com/1200/ |
| 20:43.57 | no_gravity | somiaj: If an application I run is evil, it's game over anyhow. |
| 20:44.23 | no_gravity | Also this is just a test-VM for experimental reasons. |
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| 20:45.58 | no_gravity | Well, enought tinkering for today. |
| 20:46.03 | no_gravity | Thanks everybody! |
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| 21:00.37 | simbalion | Hi, I'm trying to connect a JBL Flip 4 bluetooth speaker which supports a2dp, and I followed the guide on the debian wiki, but the device doesn't show up in pavucontrol when connected. Can anyone help? |
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| 21:12.32 | zifxify | sudo dmesg | grep drm -> [drm] Reducing the compressed framebuffer size. This may lead to less power savings than a non-reduced-size. Try to increase stolen memory size if available in BIOS. should I just disable framebuffer ? |
| 21:12.50 | zifxify | a lot of times this message |
| 21:13.05 | zifxify | broadwell cpu |
| 21:13.57 | zifxify | bad cpu lot microcode updates :( |
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| 21:38.13 | misirk85 | hejka |
| 21:38.22 | misirk85 | hello* |
| 21:38.23 | misirk85 | :) |
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| 21:38.39 | annadane | hi misirk85 |
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| 21:39.27 | misirk85 | i have question about bootable stick |
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| 21:39.51 | misirk85 | how i can create bootable usb stick with win7 on linux debian 9 |
| 21:40.09 | misirk85 | i check few sol on : |
| 21:40.10 | misirk85 | https://askubuntu.com/questions/289559/how-can-i-create-a-windows-bootable-usb-stick-using-ubuntu |
| 21:40.11 | misirk85 | and |
| 21:40.25 | misirk85 | other webpage |
| 21:40.28 | annadane | i'm not sure it's even possible? |
| 21:40.37 | misirk85 | but imo the best is dd |
| 21:40.57 | RCracer | hello Im new to debian. Is sid a good idea for my first install? |
| 21:40.57 | annadane | but idk someone smarter than i am likely knows |
| 21:40.58 | misirk85 | but if i use dd bootable stick isnt work |
| 21:40.58 | misirk85 | ;/ |
| 21:41.05 | annadane | RCracer, not really, no |
| 21:41.37 | annadane | sid's usable if you know what you're doing but if you're totally new i'd go with stable |
| 21:41.48 | misirk85 | RCracer, my first is stable with nonfree :) |
| 21:42.38 | RCracer | ok thanks guys |
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| 21:45.49 | RCracer | annadane misirk85 so is it a terrible idea? or might it be funny to try? |
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| 21:46.11 | misirk85 | i'll try to make bootable stick using dd |
| 21:46.34 | annadane | RCracer, maybe try it in a virtual machine first... it really depends on your needs |
| 21:46.37 | annadane | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_practices_for_testing.2Fsid_users.3F |
| 21:47.03 | annadane | stable is easier to maintain, definitely easier for someone new |
| 21:47.08 | annadane | i still do recommend stable |
| 21:48.16 | annadane | RCracer, but it's your computer, do with it what you want, just be aware sid may be buggy and you should keep backups of your files |
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| 21:49.33 | Peyam | what is the current version of libreCad? |
| 21:50.32 | annadane | in stable or generally? |
| 21:50.38 | annadane | ,v librecad |
| 21:50.40 | judd | Package: librecad on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.2+nolibs-1; jessie: 2.0.4-1; stretch: 2.1.2-1+b1; buster: 2.1.3-1; sid: 2.1.3-1 |
| 21:51.25 | Ouroboros | even testing is guaranteed to break all your stuff at some point, only use testing or unstable if your main goal is... testing stuff |
| 21:51.59 | annadane | well, not necessarily. i use it for my desktop but i take responsibility for possible breakage |
| 21:52.02 | Ouroboros | or, i suppose, if you absolutely need some feature, but backports are generally better for that |
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| 21:52.14 | annadane | but for someone brand new i'd not recommend it |
| 21:53.32 | annadane | RCracer, but yes, there are stable-backports for some packages you might want newer versions of... the nice thing with stable is it just works |
| 21:53.35 | Ouroboros | the only annoying thing with stable is when you find out about some brand newly released thing, and, well, then you have to wait 2 years |
| 21:54.02 | annadane | but sure, i run sid because i do want newer stuff |
| 21:54.47 | RCracer | annadane ok, I was just reading some things that made it seem ok to veer from stable. Sid might just be aggravating for me though |
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| 21:55.03 | Ouroboros | e.g. i would not mind luks2 support right now (or, if i had learned about it *before* i installed) |
| 21:55.46 | annadane | the only thing is, debian really only supports upgrades going one direction, stable -> testing -> sid, not the other way around |
| 21:55.57 | annadane | if you install sid and want to downgrade to stable, it's not supported |
| 21:57.15 | jim | not at all... you won't be able to do it |
| 21:57.50 | coruja | it may be possible under certain circumstances |
| 21:58.06 | Ouroboros | i don't even trust stable->stable upgrade |
| 21:58.16 | Ouroboros | i barely trust stable updates :P |
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| 21:58.38 | jim | I'm helping someone do a debian install, and we're seting the type code to EF00... how do you do that in the installer? |
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| 21:58.54 | Ouroboros | type code? |
| 21:59.02 | jim | partition type |
| 21:59.25 | Ouroboros | how would you do it normally? |
| 21:59.39 | Ouroboros | you can probably do the same from the installer shell |
| 21:59.39 | RCracer | can I use sid packages in stable? |
| 21:59.44 | jim | like from fdisk, t for type |
| 22:00.03 | coruja | dpkg, tell RCracer about frankendebian |
| 22:00.08 | Ouroboros | jim: why do you need to set it? |
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| 22:00.22 | jim | RCracer, you can't use sid -binary- packages in stable, but you can compile them from source |
| 22:00.39 | annadane | https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Some_safer_ways_to_install_software_not_available_in_Debian_Stable |
| 22:00.48 | coruja | dpkg, tell RCracer about backports |
| 22:00.56 | jim | Ouroboros, it needs to be set to be the ESP |
| 22:01.18 | Ouroboros | jim: you can certainly run fdisk from the installer shell, at the right point in the install process, but i don't know whether this is necessary in your case |
| 22:01.43 | Ouroboros | e.g. after you do 'write changes to disk' |
| 22:02.25 | jim | well the ESP is mounted in the right place, I dunno if it will write the type code or not (needs that type code to boot) |
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| 22:02.49 | Ouroboros | i don't know anything about esp, but i would assume that it would be correct by default |
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| 22:02.58 | Ouroboros | if not, you can boot the installer again and change it |
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| 22:09.19 | Ouroboros | jim: note that you need to get several screens into the install process before drives are discovered and certain tools are made available |
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| 22:14.55 | michael2 | can someone explain what the debian xinitrc wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/Xinitrc means by this? |
| 22:15.00 | michael2 | "Note that ~/.xinitrc is only for configuring the initialization of xinit. If you want the script to be called when ever an X Session is started, then you should instead use ~/.xsession." |
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| 22:16.26 | michael2 | whats the difference between xinit's startup config and the starting of an X session? isn't that exactly what xinit/startx does, start an X session? |
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| 22:19.40 | Ouroboros | perhaps xinit runs once and does startx several times |
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| 22:21.06 | jim | Ouroboros, ok... he's already in the partitioner |
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| 22:29.09 | Ouroboros | jim: i suggest that you let the installer partition manager do its thing, then just check the partition type using 'fdisk -l' from the installer shell |
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| 22:29.27 | Ouroboros | (after doing 'write changes to disk') |
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| 22:29.40 | Ouroboros | if wrong, you can change it at that point |
| 22:30.20 | Ouroboros | (i am assuming netinst text install) |
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| 22:36.48 | ryouma | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:37.25 | ryouma | # .xinitrc could be called .xsession # that is called by startx xinit display managers # .xinitrc is called by only startx xinit |
| 22:37.42 | lelk | assuming they have a login manager, right ryouma ? |
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| 22:37.47 | ryouma | i use startx |
| 22:38.29 | ryouma | lelk: login manager? without that you'd just get a shell upon boot? you /could/ do that. kernel can do init=/bin/sh |
| 22:39.43 | lelk | i believe GUI and bash login managers differ with the first not being pre-installed in stripped installs, if i'm not mistaken ryouma |
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| 22:40.59 | ryouma | do you mean tasksel? |
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| 22:41.48 | ryouma | a rule of thumb for computers is: use the defaults. if you know it's better not to use the defaults, don't (that's me, with not using a fancy but inaccessible and brittle gui login that is troublesome to configure). and if you're using emacs and know what you are doing, go ahead and change the defaults. |
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| 22:43.07 | ntd | ryouma, so, stick with windows 10 defaults then? :P |
| 22:43.24 | lelk | yeah ryouma , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Login_manager |
| 22:43.37 | lelk | "Since an X display manager is a graphical user interface for login, some people use the terms display manager and login manager synonymously" |
| 22:43.50 | ryouma | ntd: i have no idea! |
| 22:44.13 | ryouma | x sessions are i think a gui login kind of thing. possibly integrated with desktops. if you use a wm and startx, you don't have the concept of x sessiosn i think. |
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| 22:44.40 | lelk | well i am running a headless console-only setup and i sure do login :) |
| 22:44.46 | lelk | heh |
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| 22:45.47 | Ouroboros | ryouma: so using emacs is a dependency? :P |
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| 22:46.10 | ryouma | i didn't say that. but yes, it is not a computer if it does not run emacs. |
| 22:46.21 | Ouroboros | mhm |
| 22:46.39 | lelk | maybe lisp, emacs is definitely not a must ;) |
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| 22:53.31 | RCracer | does debian have a native irc client? |
| 22:53.42 | farruinn | native? |
| 22:53.49 | RCracer | like preinstalled |
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| 22:54.29 | RCracer | im about to install for my first time |
| 22:54.39 | farruinn | Maybe certain desktops include one? You can just use what you want though. |
| 22:54.58 | RCracer | ok ill just go through the browser |
| 22:55.06 | jeffmr | xchat is nice |
| 22:56.11 | lelk | just use irssi RCracer |
| 22:58.29 | RCracer | thanks wish me luck ;) |
| 22:58.51 | lelk | only if irssi RCracer :) |
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| 22:59.56 | Ouroboros | lelk: i think you meant 'scheme' |
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| 23:02.19 | lelk | could you elaborate Ouroboros ? i have trouble looking that up |
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| 23:05.12 | ryouma | scheme is a lisp family language |
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| 23:06.19 | lelk | oh, welp, Common Lisp and Clojure |
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| 23:07.42 | MrNato_home | I have a requirement for Deb 8 to run some software, tried installing it on a newer Lenovo x3650 M5 and installer locks up, got it to work with acpi=off and thought everything was good, until we started restoring a 20gb postgres db. Was taking a huge amount of time so we checked and found this dual xeon is only showing as one core.. Deb 9 installs fine, is it "safe" to use a newer kernel from |
| 23:07.42 | MrNato_home | backports on Deb 8 for production use? |
| 23:07.46 | lelk | but who cares about the names when you define your own language on top of any of these so you solve your problemset |
| 23:09.46 | Ouroboros | accurate |
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| 23:23.29 | michael2 | ryouma: so are you saying xinit is sourced by startx/xinit but ~/.xsession is sourced by GUI login managers ? |
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| 23:27.12 | lelk | please don't confuse this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getty_(Unix) with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightDM |
| 23:27.34 | lelk | :') |
| 23:28.22 | ryouma | michael2: close |
| 23:28.29 | ryouma | i am saying what i said |
| 23:28.33 | somiaj | michael2: depends on the system. .xsession is sorced by startx and the 'default' xsession in dms in debian. |
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| 23:29.11 | somiaj | !xsession |
| 23:29.11 | dpkg | Debian uses ~/.xsession for startx(1) as well as *most* Display Manager logins. See https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession |
| 23:29.17 | michael2 | what is "dms"? |
| 23:29.28 | somiaj | dm's |
| 23:29.43 | michael2 | desktop managers? |
| 23:29.48 | somiaj | display managers |
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| 23:32.35 | ryouma | i've modified my blurb to say that it is most |
| 23:33.42 | michael2 | I think the whole missing piece here is the xsession manager relates to Xsessions which are a thing I haven't ever, ever heard any one actually use |
| 23:34.00 | michael2 | so that seems the root of the problem |
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| 23:48.27 | jim | Ouroboros, thanks... and, I figured out what I did wrong, fixed |
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| 23:54.06 | Ouroboros | k |
| 23:54.33 | michael2 | does anyone know how to dump/print gpg-agents config? specifically how long gpg-agent is remembering decrypted private key for? |
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