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| 00:09.30 | rant | yeah I thought I was hacked when I first discovered that... I seen things going on that I wasnt expecting to happen |
| 00:10.08 | rant | things like that hardly go unnoticed as those dpkg database operations are somewhat intensive |
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| 00:11.40 | annadane | the fact that unattended-upgrades sometimes is installed via certain packages and auto activated is annoying |
| 00:12.01 | rant | hmm.. I wasnt aware of that either |
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| 00:13.00 | zimb | how can I start X by hand with startx and what problems may arise from it? |
| 00:13.26 | rant | zimb: you type startx and none |
| 00:13.48 | rant | I personally always used xinit when starting it manually.. |
| 00:14.01 | zimb | but it always goes to a graphical login screen |
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| 00:14.19 | rant | zimb: using startx it goes to a login? |
| 00:14.34 | rant | zimb: or you're saying the system boots that way? |
| 00:14.35 | zimb | no, starting the machine |
| 00:14.42 | zimb | yes |
| 00:14.58 | rant | zimb: ah you can either remove the display manager package or disable it |
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| 00:18.41 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.4 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:19.03 | rant | but as I say you can just disable the DM service or remove the package |
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| 00:19.21 | zimb | ok |
| 00:19.32 | zimb | thanks |
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| 00:20.31 | rant | dpkg -l gdm3 kdm xdm wdm lightdm nodm lxdm sddm 2>/dev/null | egrep ^.i | awk '{print $2}' |
| 00:20.31 | dpkg | No packages found matching gdm3 kdm xdm wdm lightdm nodm lxdm sddm 2>/dev/null | egrep ^.i | awk '{print $2}' |
| 00:20.34 | zimb | Another question, I will not loose anything in performance or acees to memory or GPUs and what not?! |
| 00:20.41 | rant | that will output the name of any install display managers |
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| 00:25.53 | rant | zimb: this is the normal way of starting the x server.. it'll work exactly the same as when started from a display manager |
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| 00:26.50 | rant | zimb: the only difference is the display manager does it automatically and controls the session type.. when starting manually you have to make a config to tell it what session to start, specify it on the command line or else it just starts with nothing but an xterm |
| 00:27.34 | rant | how exactly the startx script does this, I'm not sure as I never used it.. I use xinit and ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession when I run it manually |
| 00:29.03 | rant | only time I ever used startx was first time I ever saw a *nix machine.. someone gave me an HP Apollo workstation running HPUX I guess, and I was hammering around trying to figure out how it worked and found the startx script.. |
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| 00:32.12 | rant | startx is just a script and not even a consistent one, its more sample code found on most machines typically to extend and wrap xinit |
| 00:32.27 | rant | so I never bothered with it |
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| 00:33.58 | rant | less $(which startx) will show you this.. and tells you in the comments at the top its jsut an example and you're STRONGLY urged to modify it to your needs |
| 00:34.13 | rant | I determined I didnt need it :P |
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| 00:35.33 | rant | because of that simple fact it should not be relied upon unless you supply your own modified version because there is no guarentee of consistency on an example script |
| 00:36.59 | rant | zimb: all that being said, thats the only problem I could think of is that the maintainer could change that script and if you haven't supplied your own version or modified it, apt will install the maintainers version and could change its behavior |
| 00:38.10 | rant | really just removing the comments at the top would suffice for customizing it enough that apt would ask you before replacing it |
| 00:38.37 | zimb | Okay |
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| 00:38.49 | rant | though I'm not really certain of that as its not a config file |
| 00:38.49 | annadane | rant took over #debian |
| 00:38.54 | zimb | I'll do a script by myself |
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| 00:39.22 | rant | for most use cases just runing xinit and putting your session stuff in ~/.xsession is fine |
| 00:39.36 | rant | unless you need something fancy there isnt a real need for startx |
| 00:39.41 | zimb | just copy startx to my bin and edit it from there |
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| 00:40.47 | zimb | can I ask more stuff related to X |
| 00:41.18 | rant | zimb: thats a good way to ensure consistency I suppose, running it from your homedir.. that def wont be touched by apt |
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| 00:41.30 | zimb | I prefer to have a script for it |
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| 00:42.04 | zimb | That's what I thought |
| 00:42.05 | rant | yeah well I just wanted to make a point since you seemed overly concerned that its use should be done as you have suggested.. by customizing it |
| 00:42.55 | rant | as its not really a standard way to start the X server although many people seem to think so.. its just sample code in sh form |
| 00:43.01 | zimb | also easier to backup and take allcustomizations with yu to another machine |
| 00:43.39 | rant | since you kept going on about your concern for it I felt it was necessary to stress the point that its not something standardized |
| 00:43.43 | zimb | a really old sample code, it dates from xfree86 era |
| 00:43.58 | rant | yeah its been around so long many people think its something standard |
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| 00:44.01 | zimb | If I can recall correctly ... |
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| 00:44.45 | rant | the way to start X is to use xinit or a display manager.. thats just a site-specific script that can be different in different use cases |
| 00:45.04 | rant | so an admin as concerned about it as you are should be making their own script |
| 00:45.10 | zimb | Okay, got it |
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| 00:47.26 | zimb | if you can't explain these, please point me at the right direction, for an beginner sysadmin can start to understand the wonders of ICE and Xauth. |
| 00:47.41 | zimb | Also, thanks for the answers |
| 00:47.53 | rant | heh you're getting into the thick of it there |
| 00:48.10 | zimb | I knew |
| 00:48.24 | zimb | I tried once |
| 00:48.44 | rant | xauth is a nasty beast designed to make sure there is only authorized access to the server.. wayland has been designed because there are a vast many security concerns in X |
| 00:49.17 | rant | its best to get your info on xauth from the manpage man 1 xauth |
| 00:49.49 | zimb | man 1, is it low level C info? |
| 00:50.02 | rant | man 1 iceauth for the other |
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| 00:50.25 | rant | zimb: from man man "1 Executable programs or shell commands" |
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| 00:54.03 | zimb | I saw it |
| 00:54.10 | zimb | thanks |
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| 00:59.25 | zimb | not surprisingly wikipedia is very informative about it... The time I tried to read about it, the article was not good or non-existant . |
| 01:01.09 | rant | yeah its a hot mess those auth mechanisms for X most people don't even bother trying to explain it :P |
| 01:01.23 | rant | which is why I directed you to the man pages |
| 01:01.39 | zimb | actually it is simple, I thought it was a beast |
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| 01:02.06 | rant | I start reading about magic cookies and stuff and just wander off rolling my eyes |
| 01:02.12 | rant | heh |
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| 01:06.21 | FuzzyNubbinz | brb |
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| 01:21.14 | duppu | I just installed Debian 9strech |
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| 01:21.31 | dvs | oh ones! |
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| 01:22.48 | zimb | rant: ^^ |
| 01:23.49 | zimb | I want to learn because when I go to irc.virtualife.com.br , the guys there can even tell my username on my system, and they laugh oh man they laugh. |
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| 01:25.13 | annadane | stopdroppingthingsoffthegrid@gmail.comyEdbR2arepqvGg6 |
| 01:25.20 | annadane | whoops |
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| 01:29.08 | hypercore | what's the best way of installing gitea on debian 9.4? |
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| 01:29.28 | zimb | apt install git |
| 01:29.37 | zimb | Have you tried? |
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| 01:29.48 | hypercore | zimb: gitea, not git |
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| 01:30.59 | zimb | oh ok |
| 01:31.45 | karlpinc | ,gitea |
| 01:32.04 | karlpinc | ,versions gitea |
| 01:32.05 | judd | Package: gitea on amd64 -- sid/contrib: 1.3.2+dfsg-3 |
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| 01:33.56 | karlpinc | ,checkbackport gitea |
| 01:35.28 | karlpinc | hypercore: The judd bot seems slow. You might be able to backport it yourself from sid. See "/msg dpkg ssb" typed in this channel. |
| 01:35.28 | Unit193 | A golang nightmare, I don't think it'll be fun. |
| 01:35.40 | karlpinc | Unit193: Not doable? |
| 01:35.43 | judd | Backporting package gitea in sidâstretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: golang-code.gitea-git-dev, golang-code.gitea-sdk-dev, golang-etcd-server-dev, golang-github-alicebob-miniredis-dev, golang-github-blevesearch-bleve-dev, golang-github-blevesearch-go-porterstemmer-dev, golang-github-blevesearch-segment-dev, golang-github-bsm-redeo-dev, golang-github-chaseadamsio- |
| 01:35.44 | judd | goorgeous-dev, golang-github-couchbase-moss-dev, golang-github-cupcake-rdb-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-clock-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-grace-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-httpdown-dev, golang-github-facebookgo-stats-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-bindata-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-cache-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-captcha-dev, golang-github-go-macaron-csrf-dev, golang-github-go-macaron- (3 more messages) |
| 01:35.59 | karlpinc | hypercore: Yup, not doable. |
| 01:36.12 | Unit193 | :) |
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| 01:51.54 | altker128 | Hey all. Anyone here using slapd / OpenLDAP? |
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| 02:14.19 | _marshy | o/ |
| 02:14.36 | karlpinc | altker128: Ask your real question. |
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| 02:28.25 | hoshineko | hello, I have an issue on all debian-based distributions, when I remove /etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf fonts in some programs (most notably my browser) break |
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| 02:28.45 | hoshineko | any ideas about how to fix this? |
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| 02:57.37 | altker128 | karlpinc: I just installed slapd and did a dpkg-reconfigure , and answered the basic questions |
| 02:57.55 | altker128 | karlpinc: When I issue ldapsearch -x -h localhost , I get |
| 02:58.03 | altker128 | # search result |
| 02:58.04 | altker128 | search: 2 |
| 02:58.06 | altker128 | result: 32 No such object |
| 02:58.07 | altker128 | # numResponses: 1 |
| 02:58.09 | altker128 | Which doesn't seem right |
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| 03:00.21 | paxtor_ | me q é? |
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| 03:02.32 | paxtor_ | ?????? |
| 03:03.07 | altker128 | !!!!!! |
| 03:03.08 | dpkg | from memory, !!!!! is "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." -- Terry Pratchett, Maskerade |
| 03:03.41 | paxtor_ | tem br nessa porra? |
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| 03:24.51 | orbular | hello. I'm trying to set vm.max_map_count in /etc/sysctl.conf, I am using `sysctl -w vm.max_map_count=262144` instead of editing the file. but the setting does not appear in the sysctl.conf or sysctl.d |
| 03:25.16 | altker128 | orbular: You can always add it in |
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| 03:26.43 | orbular | ah. the command changes this boot, but the file changes future boots? |
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| 03:33.12 | rant | I cannot comprehend this issue, I am ssh into my fathers stretch/amd64 box and I can run player as his user and he hears sound play but when he runs the exact same command from his desktop as his user he sees mplayer sayign its playing without error and hears nothing. |
| 03:33.24 | rant | anyone have ANY idea how that is possible? heh |
| 03:33.46 | rant | he is using pulse and does have two sound cards.. |
| 03:34.07 | rant | but I'd think being that I'm using the same user and same pulse setup that couldnt be an issue |
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| 03:37.22 | rant | apparently he has the wrong card selected.. idk how I am able to use his user and his pulse daemon with the same app and it works that makes no sense |
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| 03:38.40 | altker128 | orbular: Changing the file would change it on every boot |
| 03:38.58 | altker128 | rant: Try smplayer |
| 03:39.06 | altker128 | rant: That will let you set the default sound device |
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| 03:39.45 | rant | well the problem is resolved now I jsut can understand how his pulse configuration couldve been different than mine cause I'm ssh as his user |
| 03:40.30 | rant | I'd think if his sound prefs applet were selecting his built in audio instead of the usb on his hdmi adapter.. it would not work for me either |
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| 04:32.39 | rant | altker128: not to mention I can take advice from someone who wears their underpants on their head :P |
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| 04:35.36 | fyber | So I installed Debian and created a non-root user from the installer - and some things seem off. Notably, the absence of `sudo` being installed by default. |
| 04:35.45 | fyber | Is sudo not supposed to be there by default? |
| 04:35.55 | fyber | I installed it myself, but it seems weird. |
| 04:37.01 | somiaj | sudo is only installed if you don't give root a password |
| 04:37.10 | agio | how did you create a non-root user from the installer - is that even possible? |
| 04:37.23 | somiaj | if you give root a password, installer assumes you wnt to use the root account. To use sudo, you need to apt install sudo, then adduser username sudo, and that user will have full sudo privlages |
| 04:37.28 | somiaj | you may need to logout/backin |
| 04:38.02 | somiaj | agio: It is, it usually asks you to create one none root users, and if you don't give root a password, it then sets up that users with full sudo privalges |
| 04:38.07 | somiaj | though I always use the expert installer |
| 04:38.28 | fyber | Oh okay, that makes sense. |
| 04:40.23 | fyber | The other thing is that `lm-sensors` detects my CPU temperature as -62.5°C (yes, negative) regardless of load - so I'm pretty sure it's wrong. |
| 04:40.59 | fyber | Is there another tool that displays CPU temperature? |
| 04:41.04 | fyber | Even acpi is blank/ |
| 04:41.49 | somiaj | sometimes it has to be calibrated, or maybe there is another module better at reading your sensors. |
| 04:41.58 | somiaj | did you run sensors-detect |
| 04:42.18 | fyber | Yup, ran sensors-detect and hit enter a bunch of times. |
| 04:42.23 | somiaj | it use to be you had to configure it to calibrate it for some mobos, though I haven't had to do that in a while. |
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| 04:43.03 | somiaj | you may want to look up the actual mobo sensor you are using, and see if there is a config file for it, or what you can find. |
| 04:43.46 | somiaj | care to share the output of sensors at paste.debian.net |
| 04:44.15 | fyber | http://paste.debian.net/1030887/ |
| 04:45.25 | fyber | The < 110C temperatures are obviously wrong (hopefully :P) |
| 04:45.39 | fyber | er, > 110C |
| 04:46.52 | fyber | Looks like I'm not the only one with this issue. https://i.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/6sh25y/anyone_succesfully_monitors_cpu_temperature_in/ |
| 04:47.24 | somiaj | yea, unsure why it isn't reading your sensors correctly |
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| 04:48.46 | fyber | That's why I wanted to try another tool, maybe some tool has a different way of getting that data. 𤷠|
| 04:49.22 | somiaj | they are reading it from kernel modules, so unless sensors-detect detected other possible modules, unsure |
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| 04:59.28 | fyber | Oh, figured it out. |
| 04:59.44 | fyber | The newer package version has a fix for Ryzen, but it's not in the debian packages yet. |
| 04:59.53 | fyber | Every time. |
| 04:59.54 | fyber | :D |
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| 05:08.23 | hays | will openssl 1.1.1 be backported into debian 9 |
| 05:08.49 | hays | i kinda want to try the pre7 version.. not sure there is a way to just pull in tht package from experimental |
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| 05:19.36 | hays | nope too early to try openssl 1.1.1 heh. it requires a libc update |
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| 05:58.03 | jelly | hays: it's unlikely that openssl relies on a specific gnu libc version, only a specific build in experimental might. Those are not meant to be used with stable however. You'd have to do your own build. |
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| 06:03.46 | Haohmaru | when i ping -s <size>, is the data compared? |
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| 07:16.23 | guiverc_t | Haohmaru, it is my understanding no comparison of data is done (just ignored). data size is more for troubleshooting devices (large packets fail, small packets get thru; looking at packet loss) |
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| 08:14.10 | Haohmaru | guiverc_t yeah.. i'm exactly trying to troubleshoot a device |
| 08:14.46 | Haohmaru | on windows, with "ping" and a length of 512 - i get a miscompare at length 119, every single time |
| 08:15.31 | Haohmaru | but the meaning of this message (on MSDN) seems very fishy, that's why i thought to try ping from linux |
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| 09:16.10 | CtrlC | Hi guys, I had a devops interview and I got asked a question that was a bit weird maybe. They asked me if we have an app without mysql that gets a request range of 1000 to 10000 reqs per second, how many servers do we need? |
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| 09:18.06 | petn-randall | CtrlC: How is that related to Debian? |
| 09:18.34 | CtrlC | It can be a bit. thought maybe someone knows something here. |
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| 09:20.13 | RoyK | CtrlC: the answer is "that depends on the sort of request and the serverside software, and also, how powerful the server is" et cetera et cetera ad infinitum |
| 09:20.46 | RoyK | an nginx server should be able to handle that load on even a rather slow server |
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| 09:24.26 | provolone | https://pastebin.com/neEkSUBS |
| 09:24.42 | provolone | I am unable to start jetty |
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| 09:45.50 | petn-randall | CtrlC: I see. Let's continue the discussion on #debian-offtopic then. |
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| 10:18.42 | cousin_luigi | Greetings. |
| 10:18.59 | cousin_luigi | Where do I see on salsa the upstream url? |
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| 10:24.51 | m712 | hi, running debian sid and the latest repos seem to be missing some updates? gcc-8-base's latest version and thunar-data seem to be missing |
| 10:25.02 | m712 | the old versions exist but the new versions aren't in the repo |
| 10:25.07 | m712 | is this temporary? |
| 10:25.30 | m712 | i guess it's in the middle of an update |
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| 10:33.21 | JohnKit | whois latidude |
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| 10:36.10 | elge | Hi, I setup a new repository into sources.list but whenever I `search` or `show` e.g. `ceph`, it proposes the one from the debian main repository, not from the one I want |
| 10:36.29 | elge | how to get around the official packages and use the newer ones from third-parity repo? |
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| 10:37.48 | sulc | Hello! I would like to install rainloop as a package, here I found something https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/rainloop_1.11.1-2.html . apt-get install rainloop couldn't find the package. I have debian 8 installed. |
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| 10:40.50 | bitess | elge: if you look at the output of apt-cache policy you see the pin-priority of each repo. apt-cache policy <package> shows that for each package with the install candidate. you can use pinning to change those priorities. |
| 10:40.54 | petn-randall | elge: That might be a sign that the 3rd party repo is not meant to be used with that Debian release. Packages need to have a higher version number to be considered by apt for installation. |
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| 10:41.43 | petn-randall | elge: 'apt-file search' will likely need a 'apt-file update' before working correctly. Also the 3rd party repo has to correctly provide a Contents file to work. |
| 10:42.04 | elge | petn-randall, indeed I have an issue with the third-parity repo. Although those packages **are truly newer**, I cannot see them using apt search even with only that repo enabled |
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| 10:42.26 | elge | nono I am not using apt-file |
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| 10:43.44 | petn-randall | elge: Can you show us the output of 'apt-cache policy ceph' then? https://paste.debian.net |
| 10:44.17 | elge | when I only enable the third-parity: N: Unable to locate package ceph |
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| 10:45.01 | `whoami` | sulc: afaict rainloop doesn't seem to be packaged for the debian distro, see <https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=rainloop&searchon=sourcenames&suite=all§ion=all> |
| 10:45.30 | `whoami` | sulc: maybe this would help: https://www.howtoforge.com/installation-and-configuration-of-rainloop-in-debian-7-wheezy |
| 10:45.34 | elge | same for `ceph-base` and while looking at the repo tree, I see ceph-base_13.2.0-1bionic_amd64.deb and ceph-base_13.2.0-1xenial_amd64.deb while it is a debian9 repo! |
| 10:45.56 | elge | looks like ceph people made it wrong |
| 10:46.36 | domovoy | hi |
| 10:46.43 | domovoy | using debian stable, desktop is awesome, i'm trying to set the default 'mailto:' handler with 'XDG_UTILS_DEBUG_LEVEL=2 xdg-settings set default-url-scheme-handler mailto claws-mail.desktop; echo $?' but it fails, here is the output: https://pastebin.com/yMvwAGJb Any idea what is going wrong? |
| 10:47.56 | petn-randall | !tell domovoy -about crosspost |
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| 10:49.18 | domovoy | sorry, just figured since it's a different network, it would be different people |
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| 10:50.48 | sulc | `whoami`: Thank you, I found the howtoforge link as well, but it has "curl -s http://repository.rainloop.net/installer.php | php" which i want to avoid. I guess there is no workaround :( Thought i was only too noob for something. |
| 10:51.38 | petn-randall | ,v rainloop |
| 10:51.39 | judd | No package named 'rainloop' was found in amd64. |
| 10:52.02 | petn-randall | sulc: It's in the NEW queue, waiting for review. It's not even in Debian unstable yet. |
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| 10:52.54 | petn-randall | sulc: You can however download the source package to it, and try building it on your system. But I'm going to assume that you will need to upgrade to stretch first to fulfil the dependencies. |
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| 10:54.42 | sulc | petn-randall: I'll look into it, thank you |
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| 10:57.07 | joejoejoe | Hello! I am using the Mate Desktop. How can I get one of these info things in the taskbar that tell me if my system is up to date? |
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| 11:03.44 | S_Gautam | Hello |
| 11:03.52 | S_Gautam | How do I install the kernel sources for the kernel I'm running? |
| 11:03.59 | S_Gautam | apt only reports linux-source and linux-source-4.9 |
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| 11:04.05 | S_Gautam | I'm running 4.9.0-6-amd64 |
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| 11:07.09 | afidegnum | hello good morning, i am having what believed to be an attack, suddently apache2 is maxing out CPUs, but i m using nginx as default web server i don't have anything to do with apache. here is my current state command: /var/www/apache2 -c apache2 CPU: 400.1 Memory: 10544 K www-data |
| 11:08.00 | afidegnum | how do i trace this out? |
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| 11:11.27 | petn-randall | afidegnum: Where does the binarz /var/www/apache2 come from? |
| 11:11.36 | petn-randall | *binary |
| 11:11.40 | nindustries | Suppose I want to move a debian installation to another server, would a sudo rsync / otherserver:/ work ? |
| 11:12.01 | afidegnum | ok, i found something |
| 11:12.12 | afidegnum | there was a fishy .xml directory created |
| 11:12.14 | S_Gautam | does 4.9.0-6 have separate kernel sources or is installing the linux-source-4.9 package enough? |
| 11:12.20 | S_Gautam | I need it for building a driver |
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| 11:15.25 | jelly | S_Gautam: if the driver is well written you don't need the whole sources to build it, just linux-headers-$(uname -r) |
| 11:16.15 | S_Gautam | jelly: I installed that package, but the makefile seems to reference this directory: /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build |
| 11:16.28 | jelly | that's normal |
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| 11:16.50 | S_Gautam | Yeah, but it stops. Creating that directory just causes 'no target for modules' |
| 11:16.54 | jelly | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 36 May 8 00:38 /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build -> /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64 |
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| 11:17.20 | S_Gautam | so i symlink it to /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64 ? |
| 11:17.43 | jelly | no, that should be done automatically when you install the right linux-headers-* package |
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| 11:18.20 | jelly | S_Gautam: what does this command say: dpkg -S /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build |
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| 11:19.47 | S_Gautam | linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64: /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build |
| 11:19.58 | S_Gautam | but make reports: make[1]: *** /lib/modules/4.9.0-6-amd64/build: No such file or directory. Stop. |
| 11:21.28 | jelly | something's broken, try to reinstall the headers |
| 11:22.46 | S_Gautam | Yup! Works! |
| 11:22.56 | S_Gautam | thanks a lot man, jelly |
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| 11:24.16 | jelly | cheers |
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| 11:27.20 | afidegnum | petn-randall: what's the meaning of this command ? (www-data) CMD (/home/apps/.xmr/upd >/dev/null 2>&1) |
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| 11:30.47 | petn-randall | afidegnum: You need to provide more context to make it meaningful to others. |
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| 11:31.11 | petn-randall | afidegnum: Only you know what is in /home/apps/.xmr/upd |
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| 11:34.12 | jelly | the meaining is "a cron job run as www-data user started this command" |
| 11:34.20 | yokowka | heavennO everysoul! |
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| 11:43.05 | afidegnum | petn-randall: how do i git put the whole folder to github? i m using git push but not working |
| 11:43.18 | petn-randall | !doesnt work |
| 11:43.18 | dpkg | "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>. |
| 11:43.27 | nindustries | Will an rsync of my root filesystem to a remote system work? |
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| 11:44.38 | petn-randall | afidegnum: Could it be that you're a bot? You don't seem to be responding to anything I say, and your message don't seem to have any correlation with eachother. |
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| 11:45.51 | afidegnum | petn-randall: sorry, lol |
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| 11:46.03 | petn-randall | *messages |
| 11:46.18 | afidegnum | I m trying to upload the folder where the situation is happening to github so you can have a look |
| 11:46.34 | petn-randall | afidegnum: What part is failing? |
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| 11:47.08 | afidegnum | ok, i already started |
| 11:47.09 | petn-randall | afidegnum: For now, just pasting the contents of /home/apps/.xmr/upd might be a start. |
| 11:47.10 | afidegnum | git init |
| 11:47.19 | afidegnum | ok |
| 11:47.24 | petn-randall | â https://paste.debian.net |
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| 11:48.27 | afidegnum | using termbin |
| 11:49.23 | afidegnum | petn-randall: that's the upd file |
| 11:49.24 | afidegnum | http://termbin.com/dies |
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| 11:50.52 | jelly | termbin dies! |
| 11:51.04 | afidegnum | click on the link |
| 11:51.09 | jelly | no. |
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| 11:51.29 | afidegnum | that's why i want to upload the entirety on github |
| 11:51.41 | afidegnum | it's a shell script |
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| 11:55.01 | petn-randall | afidegnum: And all it does is check a PID and call /home/apps/.xmr/r. What is that file? |
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| 11:57.25 | afidegnum | i m preparing to upload to github |
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| 12:02.22 | afidegnum | petn-randall: here you are https://github.com/afidegnum/XMR-suspect |
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| 12:04.33 | petn-randall | afidegnum: Have you uploaded the binaries to virustotal.com yet? |
| 12:04.47 | afidegnum | no |
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| 12:05.23 | petn-randall | afidegnum: I'd try that. But it looks like malware to me, unless you're sure you or someone else put it there. |
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| 12:06.02 | afidegnum | that's what i m also thinking of |
| 12:06.14 | afidegnum | how do i scan any file containing a xmr tag ? |
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| 12:06.22 | afidegnum | i know of find / -name |
| 12:06.34 | afidegnum | but the other arguments is escaping me |
| 12:06.43 | afidegnum | that's scan individual files in order to search of that tag |
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| 12:07.53 | petn-randall | tag, as in file content? |
| 12:08.01 | petn-randall | grep xmr * |
| 12:08.20 | afidegnum | .xml was the directory containg the *malware |
| 12:08.30 | afidegnum | so i want to track the script generating that file |
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| 12:14.39 | afidegnum | petn-randall: have you got somethig? |
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| 12:20.08 | blackflow | afidegnum: got wordpress there? |
| 12:20.29 | afidegnum | no, i m using drupal |
| 12:21.34 | afidegnum | blackflow: but it's a kind of cms/web framework as well |
| 12:21.35 | blackflow | patched and up to date? there's been a few major vulns in it in the past few months. |
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| 12:22.48 | jelly | afidegnum: https://github.com/afidegnum/XMR-suspect/blob/master/syslogd looks like a cryptocurrency miner, other stuff around it is just to keep it alive and camouflage it a bit |
| 12:23.47 | afidegnum | jelly: when i cleck on xml i also saw something like cryptocurency |
| 12:23.57 | afidegnum | now i need to find out how did it get there, |
| 12:24.07 | afidegnum | possibly through web interface |
| 12:24.25 | afidegnum | but i don't have an open ssh, cpanel, or ftp |
| 12:24.34 | afidegnum | i closed most of them after using them |
| 12:25.42 | blackflow | afidegnum: is your drupal patched and up to date? it had a few large vulns in the past few months. |
| 12:25.58 | afidegnum | blackflow: oooh... i remember, |
| 12:26.18 | afidegnum | there is one which is not patched, let me look into that |
| 12:26.23 | afidegnum | wow |
| 12:26.24 | blackflow | also what's the ownership on those files? same user as the php service? |
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| 12:26.34 | afidegnum | www-data |
| 12:26.38 | blackflow | so that's your vector then |
| 12:27.22 | afidegnum | thanks for enlightening, let me fix that immediately |
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| 12:27.44 | blackflow | if I were you, I'd nuke and pave that thing. You can't be sure there's no rootkit there lurking. |
| 12:28.03 | jelly | you can't be sure, but are you paid enough to be sure |
| 12:28.13 | rdz | hey all. is there a log of what is shown on console during startup? |
| 12:28.42 | rdz | the one that contains all the 'starting service xy' messages |
| 12:29.21 | rdz | systemd is complaining about something but there is not enough time to read it |
| 12:31.29 | afidegnum | blackflow: jelly i m doing that now, |
| 12:31.33 | afidegnum | shutting them down |
| 12:31.37 | blackflow | rdz: systemctl list-units --failed |
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| 12:32.15 | blackflow | afidegnum: no, "nuke and pave" means shutdown, reinstall from last known good backup. plus, patching up what needs to be patched or else it'll happen again. |
| 12:32.34 | rdz | blackflow, not exactly what I asked, but helpful, too |
| 12:32.47 | blackflow | afidegnum: it'd be wise to run some apparmor policies to prevent PHP from randomly writing out files. That or use systemd security options with some readonly and rw paths carefully laid out. |
| 12:33.03 | rdz | it lists the failed units, but i owuld like to see the message to said something anbout 'ordering cycle' |
| 12:33.12 | rdz | i can remember only those two words |
| 12:33.13 | blackflow | rdz: yeah, sorry I don't know how to view that same output, but if sd complained, this would probably show what it was |
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| 12:33.39 | rdz | blackflow, sure.. thanks |
| 12:34.00 | blackflow | rdz: you could `systemctl status` on each of hte failed units, maybe it'll mention ordering cycle |
| 12:34.14 | afidegnum | ok |
| 12:34.56 | rdz | blackflow, it shows only the message from the service itself, but i found what i was looking for in th eoutput of 'journalctl' without args |
| 12:35.47 | rdz | what does that mean: "ferm.service: Breaking ordering cycle by deleting job network-online.target/start" |
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| 12:38.06 | blackflow | rdz: it means there's a problem in dependency ordering that systemd can't resolve without dropping some units out, in this case, lol, network-online.target start job |
| 12:38.23 | blackflow | because pff who needs networking right. |
| 12:39.10 | rdz | blackflow, ah.. thanks. that explains a lot |
| 12:39.15 | rdz | blackflow, :-) |
| 12:39.49 | rdz | dives into resolving systemd dependencies mess |
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| 12:40.26 | limbo_ | Are there any alternatives to (GNU) sleep that support multiple unit prefixes. e.g. something like: sleep 1h25m -> sleep 1h ; sleep 25m |
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| 12:43.25 | petn-randall | limbo_: None that I know of, but you can easily just convert those values to seconds and pass them along. |
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| 12:43.51 | hays | anyone know if it is likely that openssl 1.1.1 will make it into debian 9/stretch |
| 12:44.16 | hays | this is the release that has TLS 1.3 in it |
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| 12:44.51 | petn-randall | ,v openssl |
| 12:44.53 | judd | Package: openssl on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.1e-2+deb7u20; wheezy-security: 1.0.1t-1+deb7u4; jessie: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u8; jessie-security: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u8; jessie-backports: 1.0.2l-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.1.0f-3+deb9u2; buster: 1.1.0h-4; sid: 1.1.0h-4; experimental: 1.1.1~~pre7-1 |
| 12:45.08 | petn-randall | hays: The chance is 0%, there are no feature updates to stretch. |
| 12:45.42 | hays | not even as a backport? |
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| 12:47.49 | hays | i was looking at the dependencies, and it does look like the experimental package is tied to a slightly newer libc6.. not sure if that is a real version dependency or not |
| 12:49.19 | hays | petn-randall: is that policy true for -backports as well? i know sometimes there will be a backport of some ackages but i don't know the rules/policy for inclusion |
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| 12:56.16 | petn-randall | hays: I'd also say it's close to impossible to go to backports, because it's a core library. Besides, all the applications building against it would need to be updated, too, since the API likely changed. |
| 12:57.01 | petn-randall | At least for 0-RTT handshakes I don't know how they'd implement that without core changes to the API. |
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| 13:00.35 | jelly | hays: isn't TLS 1.3 still a draft |
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| 13:01.10 | jelly | hays: and it's VERY unlikely that openssl, a rather portable piece of software, depends on a recent GNU libc. |
| 13:01.17 | petn-randall | That too. |
| 13:01.54 | jelly | deb binary builds in experimental are not meant for stable, they only work with sid (if they work at all) |
| 13:02.43 | mbucher_ | Hi, is there a reason that debian security archive for stretch is signed with the security archive keys of wheezy and jessie instead of the ones for stretch (which were announceed here: https://ftp-master.debian.org/keys.html)? |
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| 13:03.12 | jelly | hays: openssl cares about backwards compatibility so a backport should be possible, but complex if you want to do it right and not just ignore all the symbol differences and hope it works |
| 13:04.01 | jelly | had a feeling of deja vu |
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| 13:04.52 | jelly | ah. [05:58] <jelly> hays: it's unlikely that openssl relies on a specific gnu libc version, only a specific build in experimental might. Those are not meant to be used with stable however. You'd have to do your own build. [05:58] <-- hays has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 13:05.04 | petn-randall | hays: The source package has no build-dependencies against certain libc6 versions, that's just what comes out when you build it against a certain version. |
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| 13:05.55 | petn-randall | mbucher_: They're signed with the stretch keys. What issue are you seeing? |
| 13:06.33 | hays | ok, so it sounds like it probably will be backported at some point |
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| 13:07.02 | hays | once it gets fully released by the openssl team, which should happen soon--it was waiting on the TLS 1.3 final spec |
| 13:07.29 | hays | I agree that it would be weird if it actually had some specific libc6 dependency |
| 13:07.34 | mbucher_ | petn-randall: I downloaded the Release and Release.gpg file, verified it with gpg-command and it said that the wheezy and jessie keys were used |
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| 13:09.17 | hays | how would I find the person/team responsible for managing openssl and perhaps asking to help |
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| 13:09.31 | hays | s/asking for/offering to/ |
| 13:10.02 | petn-randall | hays: To do what exactly? |
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| 13:11.31 | hays | petn-randall: once it drops into unstable or testing, I could try to figure out how to package it as a backport.. but I'd want to check if the person/team actually wanted this help |
| 13:12.01 | petn-randall | mbucher_: I see three signature, two belonging to jessie, and one belonging to stretch. Again, what problem are you experiencing? |
| 13:12.01 | hays | ive always been curious to learn how to make a package |
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| 13:12.31 | petn-randall | hays: You can try to backport it for fun, but I'm pretty sure it will never go into stable-backports. |
| 13:12.49 | hays | really? what would block it from going in there? |
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| 13:13.17 | mbucher_ | petn-randall: No problems, just curious :) |
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| 13:14.08 | petn-randall | mbucher_: All repository mirrors are always signed with the release key, and the previous release key, to allow for dist-upgrades. |
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| 13:15.20 | hays | 1.1.1 should not break any binary compatibility from 1.1.0 |
| 13:15.36 | hays | From openssl "Minor releases that change the last digit, e.g. 1.1.0 vs. 1.1.1, can and are likely to contain new features, but in a way that does not break binary compatibility. This means that an application compiled and dynamically linked with 1.1.0 does not need to be recompiled when the shared library is updated to 1.1.1." |
| 13:16.41 | hays | and not sure how long Debian 9 is going to be around, but it looks like openssl will stop supporting 1.1.0 in about one year |
| 13:17.04 | petn-randall | hays: There's no hard rule, but it's a core library, and whoever uploads it to backports will have to support it for the complete lifecycle. Supporting crypto modules is a hard job and I'm pretty sure nobody will do it. |
| 13:17.49 | mbucher_ | petn-randall: I trust you that this is true, however I still only see jessie and wheezy keys when verifying InRelease from stretch-repo on 212.211.132.250 |
| 13:18.05 | jelly | petn-randall: um, *-backports uploads have no lifecycle promise at all do they? |
| 13:18.28 | mbucher_ | petn-randall: I did: curl -v http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/stretch/updates/InRelease | gpg --verify |
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| 13:18.37 | hays | petn-randall: I guess the decision for stable would be whether its easier to patch 1.1.0 themselves or move to 1.1.1 and get upstream help |
| 13:18.47 | petn-randall | jelly: https://backports.debian.org/Contribute/#index5h3 |
| 13:18.50 | jelly | "upstream help" |
| 13:19.13 | petn-randall | hays: That's not how stable works. |
| 13:19.51 | hays | well it would likely be the security team |
| 13:19.52 | jelly | petn-randall: that's laughably different from actual practice, with few exceptions |
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| 13:20.54 | petn-randall | mbucher_: This is the output I get: http://paste.debian.net/1030952/ |
| 13:21.06 | petn-randall | mbucher_: You'll notice three signature, two from jessie, one from stretch. |
| 13:21.08 | jelly | IME backports are throwaway maybe-once builds and "tracking unstable" or "tracking release+1" does not happen for 90% of the stuff in *-backports repo |
| 13:21.33 | petn-randall | shrugs. |
| 13:21.50 | petn-randall | jelly: I'm not involved much in backports, so I don't know how the team handles it. |
| 13:22.02 | `whoami` | hey, do you know if there's a config file for xterm where I could make it start with some defaults options ? (like -ut, -wf and such) |
| 13:22.05 | petn-randall | jelly: I'm fairly sure they don't allow upload from unstable though. |
| 13:22.20 | hicks | backport has to come from testing iirc. |
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| 13:22.43 | jelly | backports come from release+1 |
| 13:22.43 | petn-randall | mbucher_: Eh, I mean 1 from wheezy, 1 from jessie, 1 from stretch. |
| 13:22.48 | hicks | altough on the lifetime support, whilst that's how it's written, I'll be surprised if there's many that support it once they've moved to the latest stable release |
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| 13:23.03 | petn-randall | this ^ |
| 13:23.11 | `whoami` | I don't know if it's in ~/.Xresources as well; and if it is, I'm wondering about the syntax. I didn't manage to find anything related in the manpage, nor on google :\ |
| 13:23.18 | jelly | hicks: there are 4-5 maintainers that care. |
| 13:23.54 | jelly | amusingly, nvidia blob guys are one of those |
| 13:24.30 | mbucher_ | petn-randall: That's what I get for the debian archive repo as well, but not for the security-archive (security.debian.org) |
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| 13:25.25 | hays | it will be interesting to see how it plays out. openssl 1.1.1 is an "LTS release" and is binary compatible with 1.1.0, which sunsets in a year. |
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| 13:26.51 | hays | Debian 9 was released 2017/06.. not sure how long debian's cycle is for stable releases |
| 13:27.22 | slax0r | jessie was with us for quite some time before 9 came along, at least 2-3years iirc |
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| 13:27.54 | slax0r | april 2015 |
| 13:28.00 | slax0r | was the release of jessie |
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| 13:28.27 | hicks | hays: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases |
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| 13:31.31 | hays | so yeah. should be interesting what folks decide. Maybe it will depend on how long it takes before someone fundamentally breaks TLS 1.2, lol |
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| 13:36.05 | hays | I can see what the openssl folks are trying to do.. allowing features in their point releases might make sense for a low-level security library |
| 13:36.31 | hays | anyways, gotta run, thanks for the interesting conversation |
| 13:37.20 | petn-randall | mbucher_: Indeed, I'm currently asking the ftp team why this is the case. |
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| 13:48.33 | Zgrokl | hello, i updated to sid and now my networkmanager don't want to connect to pptp vpn, any idea ? Log say nothing |
| 13:48.38 | petn-randall | hays_: TLS 1.2 contains a few dozen independant ciphers, so I doubt they'll all get broken at the same time. |
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| 13:54.12 | petn-randall | Zgrokl: Thanks on testing our untested release branch. Support for testing/sid are in: |
| 13:54.16 | petn-randall | !debian-next |
| 13:54.17 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 14:07.58 | limbo_ | petn-randall: long ago, I learned not to implement time in my own software. |
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| 14:17.43 | elge | petn-randall, finally apt-cache policy ceph: https://pastebin.com/BmA5Rq2G |
| 14:19.19 | elge | so I got two candidates and the newer one shows up, that is fine, I got `search` and `show` printing the relevant info now. |
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| 14:19.48 | elge | however, when ever I try to install the package, it tells me about unmet deps that it cannot solve. |
| 14:20.11 | elge | and there is no apparent reason why |
| 14:21.01 | themill | elge: these packages aren't designed for Debian. There are any number of reasons why they can't be installed. |
| 14:21.31 | elge | themill, well in the meanwhile I re-deployed the whole cluster a ubuntu/xenial guests. |
| 14:21.51 | themill | those package are designed for that so if you want them, that makes sense |
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| 14:22.00 | elge | because although they call their repo debian-mimic, only xenial and bionic packages are truly available. |
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| 14:22.56 | jelly | misleading marketing and ignorance can make people think debian and ubuntu work the same |
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| 14:23.31 | elge | well I believe in the case of my current issue with unmet deps, they do, and you guys could help) |
| 14:23.36 | jelly | if your vendor support only Ubuntu LTS, well then, run Ubuntu LTS |
| 14:23.47 | elge | yep, that is fixed already |
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| 14:39.38 | elge | ok it is solved. I just had one repo pointing to `main` repository into sources.list, since those guests were brutally bootstrapped. I added other repos and more than main |
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| 15:06.08 | thms | There's something I don't understand. I've updated two similar systems to stretch. Now, one of them has "libapache2-mod-php5" which is 5.6 and status (ii), and the other machine has libapache2-mod-php5 which is (rc) and 5.3 |
| 15:06.27 | greycat | rc is removed, but config files remain |
| 15:06.32 | greycat | i.e. not purged |
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| 15:07.23 | rdz | thms, beware that libapache2-mod-php5 is not part of stretch, but also not automatically upgraded |
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| 15:08.06 | rdz | you need to manually upgrade by installing libapache2-mod-php which depends on libapache2-mod-php7 |
| 15:08.08 | thms | Mh, ok. So if I want libapache2-mod-php5 (5.6, ii) on the machine that has (5.3 rc), I just need to add Jessie to my sources.list and install it ? |
| 15:08.12 | greycat | Yeah, the PHP 5->7 transition requires you to do extra steps yourself whenever you're ready. |
| 15:08.27 | greycat | It doesn't HAVE 5.3 rc. rc means it's been removed. |
| 15:09.00 | thms | Pardon my english.. I meant "shows". I want it to "HAVE" 5.6 just like the other machine |
| 15:09.14 | greycat | If you want to install the 5.x libapache2-mod-php5 on the machine that does not have it, you'll need to add a jessie source for it. |
| 15:09.25 | thms | OK, thanks a lot! |
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| 15:09.30 | greycat | If you only have stretch sources, you'll only be able to install the php7 version. |
| 15:10.05 | thms | Indeed, thanks a lot ! |
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| 15:13.59 | emilsp | hiya, I'm running on the latest testing release. I've got a service which depends on the network.target, yet when it's started, /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist yet. Since I'm developing a daemon that will depend on the resol.conf existing, is there a better target to wait for? |
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| 15:16.59 | greycat | emilsp: Assuming the "testing" part is irrelevant and you have the same issue on testing, it sounds like you need to change the interface from "allow-hotplug" to "auto" in /etc/network/interfaces, assuming this is a regular workstation or server. |
| 15:17.07 | greycat | err, same issue on stable. |
| 15:18.02 | greycat | Networking is considered to be "up" for systemd unit purposes whenever all the interfaces marked "auto" are up. Interfaces marked "allow-hotplug" do not need to be up. |
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| 15:19.09 | emilsp | greycat: hmm, this isn't really something that works out for us then. I'm assuming I can't change anything about the base install. |
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| 15:20.48 | greycat | Good luck convincing the Debian boot team to default to regular workstation behavior instead of laptop/tablet/phone behavior. :( |
| 15:21.11 | emilsp | Well, I don't really want to change debian's behaviour. |
| 15:21.21 | emilsp | I just want to know if there's something I can do to work around this :) |
| 15:21.46 | greycat | Tell the computer's administrator to change the DHCP interface to auto. |
| 15:22.47 | emilsp | As an application developer, I can't really afford to do that. There will be end users who will just expect a deb that will *just* work. |
| 15:23.10 | greycat | Lots of things break with a default "allow-hotplug" setup. Like NFS. Just totally falls over and dies. |
| 15:23.24 | emilsp | Yeah, I can imagine. |
| 15:23.36 | greycat | But apparently in this decade people think it's more important to coddle laptop users. |
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| 15:24.46 | emilsp | well, it's breaking for me on a VM, and the networking unit fails outright, as that one is looking for a non existant eth0 interface. |
| 15:25.09 | jelly | that sounds like your installation is misconfigured |
| 15:25.29 | jelly | which is not surprising because... tesitng |
| 15:25.39 | greycat | jelly: it's what you get if you stick the CD into a standard desktop PC and do a "Standard" (literally) install. |
| 15:25.48 | emilsp | That sounds interesting, because I would've expected it to just work, it's dhcp for god's sake. |
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| 15:26.12 | emilsp | and debian testing is what, code that's been stable and working for 3 years at least, right? |
| 15:26.16 | jelly | I would expect anything in testing may be broken at any point in time |
| 15:26.18 | greycat | It "works" in the sense that the interface eventually comes up and therefore creates a resolv.conf file containing whatever the DHCP server said to put in it. |
| 15:26.27 | jelly | emilsp: absolutely not |
| 15:26.47 | greycat | But things don't wait for that interface to come up, because you gotta get your pretty GDM3 login screen 5 seconds sooner. |
| 15:26.49 | jelly | it's a constantly changing platform |
| 15:26.55 | emilsp | jelly: then please forgive my sarcastic ignorance :( But we've somehow decided to target testing ? |
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| 15:27.26 | greycat | emilsp: you can avoid a lot of this by doing your work on stable and then saying "On stretch, I have this problem: ..." |
| 15:27.47 | jelly | emilsp: those "we" ought to know better, or have a reasonably extensive Debian experience to things issues like those |
| 15:27.59 | emilsp | fair, will try out stuff on that. |
| 15:28.01 | jelly | to fix* |
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| 15:28.51 | jelly | testing is used to see how your product will work on the next future release, and to fix bugs to make that release happen |
| 15:29.30 | emilsp | oh wait |
| 15:29.33 | emilsp | this is on stretch |
| 15:29.50 | emilsp | 9.4 - stable since 2018-03-10 |
| 15:29.54 | emilsp | Ok then |
| 15:30.05 | emilsp | How do I achieve what I want to achieve on debian stable then? |
| 15:30.10 | jelly | yeah, stretch = stable since 2017-05-ish |
| 15:30.35 | emilsp | ok, so, why does the networking.unit fail and tries to bring up a non-existant interface? |
| 15:30.47 | emilsp | and what systemd unit to I depend on for a resolv.conf ? |
| 15:30.55 | jelly | which interface _does_ exist? |
| 15:31.07 | emilsp | ens3 |
| 15:31.11 | emilsp | and lo ofc |
| 15:31.24 | jelly | thne you have a misconfiguration |
| 15:32.14 | petn-randall | emilsp: /etc/resolv.conf is not a hard requirement for any networking, if you want to be specific about it. But if you configure it properly in /etc/network/interfaces, it will exist when the networking target is reached. |
| 15:32.31 | jelly | fix it, or change kernel boot parameters to disable "predictable network interface names" |
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| 15:33.03 | emilsp | petn-randall: what do you mean by properly configuring something? |
| 15:33.31 | emilsp | I never set my VM up to use any interface - by default, I expected DHCP to just work. |
| 15:33.42 | greycat | If the networking.unit is actually *failing*, this is new information. |
| 15:33.44 | jelly | the winner for Most Ironic Feature Name of 2017 |
| 15:33.54 | petn-randall | emilsp: If you configure ens3 correctly, that is either via DHCP or static config, and DNS is provided by either of them, it will exist when the target is reached. |
| 15:34.19 | greycat | petn-randall: what target? |
| 15:34.28 | petn-randall | networking target. |
| 15:34.44 | jelly | emilsp: how was your VM provisioned? If there mention of eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 15:35.05 | greycat | petn-randall: this is incorrect. If the interface is marked allow-hotplug, WHICH IS THE DEFAULT BEHAVIOR of the Debian installer, you can reach networking target with only lo up. |
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| 15:35.17 | emilsp | well, see, the ironic thing is, networking is working, once it boots. But clearly, if my service depends on the network.target and then fails to start because it can't read from /etc/resolv.conf, what you are saying is unfortunately not true. Do you have anything in mind that I could do to bring us both closer to a shared understanding of what is going on here? |
| 15:35.50 | emilsp | there's a difference between the networking.unit and the network.target |
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| 15:36.04 | petn-randall | greycat: That's why I said "correctly", implying that it's the way they want it. |
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| 15:36.39 | emilsp | jelly: I installed using the net install with gnome as the default DE, clicked next without much issues. |
| 15:36.46 | greycat | petn-randall: He seems to be trying to write a package that will magically wait for ALL interfaces to be up instead of only the interfaces that are marked by a competent admin, presumably because his target audience is not competent admins. |
| 15:36.53 | emilsp | I presume that most users will do the same thing. |
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| 15:37.54 | petn-randall | I'm sure one can wait for some systemd or dbus event to get notified when the dynamically configured network by network-manager is up. |
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| 15:38.12 | greycat | Maybe that's true, but if it is, I've never found it. |
| 15:38.14 | emilsp | I don't believe I've got NetworkManager working. |
| 15:38.38 | jelly | emilsp: you do if your user logs in and opens a Gnome session. |
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| 15:38.49 | greycat | Oh, you said n-m. I've never intentionally used n-m. The one time I found it installed by accident, I removed it. |
| 15:39.14 | jelly | (by default) |
| 15:40.00 | jelly | emilsp: so if your service expects network to be up before a user logs in, that might be an incorrect assumption (again, by default) |
| 15:40.25 | emilsp | I don't care about the user logging in. |
| 15:40.35 | emilsp | I want this service to start up as soon as the network is up. |
| 15:40.58 | jelly | then you have to configure the network to go up regardless of user logging in. |
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| 15:41.19 | jelly | and this seems to be a non-default config. |
| 15:41.23 | emilsp | Somehow this works reliably on Arch and other distributions. |
| 15:41.36 | emilsp | What exactly is non-default about this? And yes, this is with NetworkManager. |
| 15:41.48 | greycat | Ugh, n-m. I can't help you with that. |
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| 15:42.11 | jelly | emilsp: expecting network to be configured before login is non-default |
| 15:43.13 | emilsp | I don't even care about login. I want my systemd unit to be started after /etc/resolv.conf exists. Could you guys recommend a way to do this? |
| 15:43.49 | petn-randall | emilsp: You're wrong in the assumption that on every machine /etc/resolv.conf exists. |
| 15:43.57 | petn-randall | At any point in time. |
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| 15:44.43 | blackflow | did anyone mention After=network-online.target yet? |
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| 15:45.01 | emilsp | The app we're developing is essentially a nicer wrapper around openvpn and eventually wireguard that a a lay person can use, I presume our taret audience will have an /etc/resolv.conf on their machines at some point in time, no? |
| 15:45.03 | greycat | blackflow: It doesn't work if the interface is marked allow-hotplug or whatever the N-M equivalent is. |
| 15:45.23 | emilsp | blackflow: no, but this might be it! Thanks :) |
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| 15:45.25 | greycat | blackflow: and the allow-hotplug is the stpuid-ass DEFAULT and this person seems unwilling to accept "make the user fix their own computer" as a solution |
| 15:45.32 | petn-randall | emilsp: If you want to have a point where /etc/resolv.conf definitely exists, you can configure a machine to do so. But the other way round does not exist: There is no guarantee that a system is configured that it exists at some point. |
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| 15:46.38 | greycat | emilsp: the "obvious" but possibly undesirable way would be to check for it, and if it's not present, sleep for a second or two, check again, etc. until you've checked N times and then just abort. |
| 15:46.39 | jelly | #847440 seems vaguely related |
| 15:46.40 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/847440 in resolvconf (pending, patch): «resolvconf: run resolvconf service before any networking service»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-12-08; last modified: 2017-06-11. |
| 15:46.43 | petn-randall | emilsp: But maybe tell us more about your problem, and we might find a solution to it. |
| 15:47.03 | petn-randall | "/etc/resolv.conf must exist" is probably not the solution. |
| 15:47.13 | jelly | (and is unfixed in Debian, fixed in Ubuntu as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1649931) |
| 15:47.54 | emilsp | Our daemon monitors changes to resolvconf once the user connects to a tunnel, since we try and ensure that the user's DNS requests don't leak, we try and override whatever changes that happen to resolv.conf during the lifetime of our tunnel. Afterwards, we reset the resolv.conf to what it was before + changes to it over the lifetime of the tunnel, if that is possible. |
| 15:48.34 | greycat | *shudder* |
| 15:48.36 | jelly | emilsp: don't do that. Work with resolvconf package. |
| 15:48.50 | jelly | how do you "override changes"? |
| 15:49.00 | greycat | Yes, this is definitely what the resolvconf package is intended for. |
| 15:49.03 | emilsp | in a very brutish, peasant-like way. |
| 15:49.34 | jelly | this is literally what resolvconf was invented for |
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| 15:49.56 | emilsp | So, these are the docs for it, right? https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf |
| 15:49.58 | jelly | (resolvconf = piece of software Debian uses to manage contents of /etc/resolv.conf) |
| 15:50.07 | greycat | ,info resolvconf |
| 15:50.08 | judd | Package resolvconf (net, optional) in stretch/amd64: name server information handler. Version: 1.79; Size: 72.4k; Installed: 191k; Homepage: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/resolvconf/ |
| 15:50.33 | emilsp | wis alioth.debian.org supposed to not be reachable? |
| 15:50.59 | jelly | you can name your tunnel device in a specific way, and you can prioritize entries based on device naming |
| 15:51.09 | jelly | I'm fuzzy about the details, sorry |
| 15:51.30 | emilsp | In any case, thanks a lot guys, I will go away and investigate. |
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| 15:51.50 | emilsp | But I'm guessing this would mean that we'll have to write code specifically for debian to support this, right? |
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| 15:52.13 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf is mostly instructions for how local sys admins can manually edit resolv.conf. It's not intended for package authors who are trying to work with the resolvconf software. |
| 15:52.22 | jelly | yes. It may or may not work on Debian-based derivatives. |
| 15:53.12 | jelly | ubuntu goes the other way and sets up its own dnsmasq via N-M and only has nameserver 127.0.0.1 |
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| 15:53.28 | emilsp | I understand that this would be where one normally finds the dev docs, but the host is refusing my connections http://alioth.debian.org/projects/resolvconf/ |
| 15:53.43 | jelly | alioth is dead, that stuff should be migrated to... |
| 15:53.58 | jelly | somewhere on salsa.debian.org presumably? |
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| 15:54.39 | emilsp | do I have to have an account to access it ? :S |
| 15:55.05 | greycat | You could start with https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/openresolv/resolvconf.8.en.html |
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| 15:55.34 | jelly | emilsp: I cannot find traces of resolvconf even wit an account |
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| 15:56.42 | jelly | starting from tracker.debian.org/resolvconf, https://sources.debian.org/src/resolvconf/1.79/README/ |
| 15:56.45 | emilsp | also, jelly, thanks for pointing out that Ubuntu just does whatever it wants. This essentially means that we might leak on ubuntu :S. Thanks greycat. |
| 15:57.29 | jelly | emilsp: hitting /etc/resolv.conf with an chattr +i hammer programatically sounds inherently racy anyway |
| 15:57.57 | emilsp | that wouldn't be what we do, we're far more devious than that. |
| 15:58.00 | jelly | dnsmasq is actually quite nice |
| 15:58.22 | jelly | and can route different zones to different forwarders |
| 15:58.26 | blackflow | ubuntu no longer does that tho'. as of 16.10 they default to systemd-resolved which is an entirely separate world of hurt. |
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| 15:58.53 | jelly | serves me right, I'm still on xenial until 18.04.1 is out |
| 15:58.54 | greycat | Note to self: continue not using Ubuntu. |
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| 15:59.27 | jelly | greycat: they also have a completely new way of configuring network, #netplan |
| 15:59.37 | emilsp | wat |
| 15:59.54 | jelly | it generates config for systemd-networkd. |
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| 15:59.55 | blackflow | oh yeah |
| 16:00.12 | greycat | Drinking ALL the kool-aid. |
| 16:00.18 | blackflow | or more precisely, generates config for the selected backend, currently supported only NetworkManager and systemd-networkd. |
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| 16:00.54 | jelly | because there was a feature or two they missed in networkd, and Canonical and RedHat are apparently unable to work together on open source projects |
| 16:01.05 | jelly | so... netplan |
| 16:01.40 | emilsp | there's no collaboration in open source :( |
| 16:01.58 | greycat | Maybe I'll retire or die before the world evolves into a place where nobody understands CONCEPT of a workstation. |
| 16:02.21 | greycat | Although at the current rate it doesn't look hopeful. |
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| 16:03.41 | emilsp | Well, surely, you can still use iface-up scripts if you want to, greycat |
| 16:03.55 | jelly | workstations and gerenal-purpose computing for personal use is dying, they'll remain as basically expensive remnants for developers only in 10 years tops </troll> |
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| 16:04.36 | jelly | there will _never_ be a year of linux on desktop |
| 16:04.53 | greycat | "what's a desk" </millenial> |
| 16:05.15 | emilsp | I think they will never quite burn out, general purpose workstations are what most people use for work, whilst other types of devices will become more popular, I don't think our beloved workstations will become much less popular in the coming decade. |
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| 16:06.08 | jelly | they're already a minority of personal computing devices sold. |
| 16:06.46 | emilsp | yea, but that's because most people don't need or use a personal computer. |
| 16:07.10 | emilsp | I think as long as there'll be desk jobs, there will be workstations. |
| 16:07.23 | jelly | you'll end up with having to buy an equivalent of a 90s unix workstation, expensive as hell, if you want to code your own apps on it |
| 16:08.30 | jelly | emilsp: those won't be general-purpose devices, but iOS and ChromeOS and AzureOS walled garden units |
| 16:08.47 | emilsp | if they could be, they would be already. |
| 16:09.04 | jelly | we're going there. |
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| 16:09.27 | emilsp | the trend is pointed towards there, but that doesn't mean that we'll reach hell. |
| 16:09.30 | emilsp | I hope. |
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| 16:09.56 | jelly | 10 years tops, see ms and apple close down installing non-store apps |
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| 16:10.16 | blackflow | AI will replace the need for keyboard and mice. the interfaces of yesteryear are doomed. |
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| 16:11.58 | jelly | you want to run linux, buy an expensive server |
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| 16:12.20 | emilsp | nono, buy the linux (tm) app from the respective walled garden shoppe |
| 16:12.36 | emilsp | with a full keyboard emulator |
| 16:12.46 | jelly | emilsp: you're joking, but ChromeOS can now run native GNU/Linux apps. |
| 16:13.03 | emilsp | how is that a bad thing, I think the work they've done to support that is really cool. |
| 16:13.05 | bites | debian doesn't even have a netplan package :o |
| 16:13.41 | jelly | bites: you think it's in Canonical's interest to package it up nicely for anything but Ubuntu for free? |
| 16:13.44 | emilsp | in fact, I'd rather give my mom a chromebook than a linux laptop that I can ssh into to fix her troubles. Over a 40 kbit uplink |
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| 16:14.47 | blackflow | isn't chromebook just a fancy interface for Téh Clöud Appz? |
| 16:14.49 | bites | i don't know what's in canonical's interest. things tend to flow back from canonical to debian sometimes. |
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| 16:15.29 | jelly | bites: only for core stuff that already exists in both |
| 16:15.52 | jelly | Unity never appeared in usable state |
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| 16:16.16 | bites | but that needed patches to other packages, didn't it? |
| 16:16.33 | jelly | duh |
| 16:16.34 | emilsp | unity needed it's own gtk patches, no? Or was it qt? |
| 16:16.47 | blackflow | it's based on gnome3 |
| 16:17.02 | jelly | what else would flow back but patches |
| 16:18.03 | jelly | emilsp: some gtk patching but not a lot, a whole new systray, er, appindicator API and library, config and a plugin for compiz, that's all it is |
| 16:18.20 | bites | software like unattended-upgrades |
| 16:18.39 | jelly | that crap doesn't work well even in Ubuntu |
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| 16:19.24 | jelly | I'd say it _can't_ work well without significant manpower added, policy and implementation wise |
| 16:19.26 | Sir_Designer | https://youtu.be/mwhX5V1Gn6w ⢠Francoise Hardy - Comment te dire adieu |
| 16:20.00 | emilsp | jelly: please don't get me started on appindicator/systray issues :( |
| 16:20.20 | blackflow | funny thing is, Unity was dropped from official maintainership so Canonical would stop wasting time on the desktop. But now they, again, have to customize stuff because GNOME is such a burning trash can and is only going downhill with each new release and features removed. |
| 16:20.21 | jelly | emilsp: and just as things started working reasonably well, they gave up on it :-) |
| 16:20.37 | emilsp | yep, dumpster fires all around |
| 16:21.07 | jelly | blackflow: that's a RH <-> Canonical issue. Canonical just doesn't have engineers to dedicate for that work |
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| 16:21.47 | jelly | they're making paychecks elsewhere, not the desktop. But this is more a #debian-offtopic rant. |
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| 16:22.21 | blackflow | yeah but I just find it very ironic that they wanted to distance themselves from all that work.... only to find themselves doing it again because of their poor choice of default desktop. |
| 16:22.33 | blackflow | should've gone KDE and call it a day. |
| 16:23.17 | jelly | KDE did not have anything resembling stable/LTS until very recently |
| 16:24.17 | blackflow | that was still before gnome was decided to be the default with 17.10, wasn't it? |
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| 16:28.28 | blackflow | Too bad tho'. Jessie + GNOME3 was the bestest (full) desktop experience I had. Stable and smooth. |
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| 16:29.02 | jelly | let me tell you about kde3 on what, squeeze? lenny? |
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| 16:31.44 | Biontry | https://tinyurl.com/ya79dnx5 |
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| 16:33.01 | blackflow | jelly: kde3 on OpenSuSE was my first linux desktop experience. :) |
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| 16:34.02 | jelly | (don't click that tinyurl shit) |
| 16:34.28 | blackflow | what is it, pron? |
| 16:34.47 | jelly | some altervista IP tracker |
| 16:34.58 | blackflow | ah |
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| 16:37.44 | DUKENUKEM | whats up guys im on a lenovo x1 carbon gen 6, get a blank screen when trying to install (boot from usb drive). any ideas? tried using the BIOS options from the wiki on the 4th/5th gen laptop |
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| 16:38.23 | jelly | DUKENUKEM: which cpu is in there? |
| 16:38.37 | DUKENUKEM | Intel® Core⢠i7-8650U (1.9-4.2GHz, 4MB L3 cache) |
| 16:38.57 | jelly | that might be too new for stretch kernel |
| 16:39.27 | DUKENUKEM | from what i read this laptop requires a 4.14 kernel |
| 16:39.35 | jelly | try weekly or daily testing install builds, see if there's any difference |
| 16:39.35 | DUKENUKEM | and yeah stretch is 4.9 i think? |
| 16:39.49 | DUKENUKEM | how stable are those testing builds :P |
| 16:39.54 | jelly | not at all |
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| 16:40.11 | jelly | they wouldn't be called "testing" but "stable" if they were! |
| 16:40.15 | DUKENUKEM | hehe |
| 16:40.34 | jelly | does that thing have wired internet? |
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| 16:40.45 | jelly | or is it only on dongle |
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| 16:41.39 | DUKENUKEM | no wired internet, only that iwlwifi |
| 16:41.55 | DUKENUKEM | nonfree :\ |
| 16:42.00 | DUKENUKEM | are there isos for unstable builds? |
| 16:42.02 | jelly | then you'll have to use the unofficial images with firmware, doubly untested |
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| 16:42.45 | jelly | start at https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ and hunt for weekly or daily buster builds |
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| 16:43.30 | jelly | eg. this one down there at https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 16:43.43 | DUKENUKEM | awesome |
| 16:43.45 | DUKENUKEM | thanks for the info |
| 16:43.49 | DUKENUKEM | ill let you know how it goes |
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| 16:44.03 | jelly | good luck. Don't buy latest hw if you want to run Linux without issues |
| 16:44.31 | emilsp | hey, I bought a thinkpad the moment it came out, works pretty well, except for wayland. |
| 16:44.33 | jelly | also, ##ibmthinkpad channel may or may not be helpful |
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| 16:45.37 | jelly | ,kernels |
| 16:45.38 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.16.0-rc6-686 (4.16~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 4.16.0-2-686 (4.16.16-2); buster: 4.16.0-2-686 (4.16.12-1); stretch-backports: 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae (4.16.12-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-6-686-pae (3.16.56-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports: |
| 16:45.39 | judd | 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1) |
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| 16:49.25 | emilsp | DUKENUKEM: I've had more luck with kernels 4.15 and above. |
| 16:49.55 | jelly | if you manage to get things going with buster, |
| 16:49.58 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 16:49.59 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 16:50.17 | DUKENUKEM | roger that |
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| 16:59.45 | DUKENUKEM | i was able to boot stable install |
| 16:59.46 | DUKENUKEM | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:59.50 | DUKENUKEM | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:00.20 | DUKENUKEM | uefi only was default setting, but CSM to yes i had to do myself |
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| 17:30.35 | jelly | DUKENUKEM: uefi probably only works with secure boot disabled |
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| 17:35.22 | oerheks | In your bios, disable FastBoot and Intel Smart Response Technology (SRT) .. ?? |
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| 17:52.39 | jim | hi, trying to bump all the fonts (menu, on-window labels, etc) in lmms, google search doesn't reveal useful hits... also, I need to know my current screen resolution... how can I do those? |
| 17:53.14 | greycat | for current resolution I use xdpyinfo | less and then find the line that says... um... |
| 17:53.25 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:53.41 | jim | thanks :) |
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| 17:54.34 | jelly | xrandr will tell you current resolution for all enabled screens |
| 17:54.50 | greycat | figured there were multiple ways to do it |
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| 17:56.41 | jelly | right, and xdpyinfo uses older APIs and will only know about the whole virtual screen size |
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| 18:00.11 | DUKENUKEM | hmm |
| 18:00.15 | DUKENUKEM | maybe i should just not use efi |
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| 18:10.09 | Voss | Hi folks |
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| 18:10.17 | Voss | I encountered a problem trying to install Debian |
| 18:10.22 | Voss | http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=137913 |
| 18:10.46 | Voss | The debian install seems to freeze after I selected 'Guided - use entire disk' in the 'Partition Disks' part of the installation process |
| 18:10.51 | Voss | Any help is greatly appreciated |
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| 18:22.16 | maher | my laptop can't see it's internal hard disc - it can boot from usb though - any advice on how I can fix this? |
| 18:22.25 | Tom-_ | sorry, Voss, i have no idea. maybe post again with more detail sometime |
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| 18:23.46 | maher | (i can boot from usb and see the internal drive, it just won't boot from the internal drive directly...) |
| 18:24.31 | jim | maher, did it used to work? |
| 18:25.37 | maher | jim - yes it worked for several months until today, when it stopped booting after the battery ran out when it was on standby - it stopped booting properly and i tried to use a netinstall disc to recue |
| 18:25.49 | maher | rescue it |
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| 18:26.51 | jim | I wonder if something (like the grub instal) got messed up when the battery ran out |
| 18:27.29 | jim | so you've booted a netinstall? |
| 18:27.56 | maher | jim: probably - how do i fix it? I re-installed using the buster netinstall media, but it still won't see its internal drive on boot |
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| 18:28.55 | mnuhmnuh | maher: define "can't see". do you see a grub boot menu? can you get into single user login/recovery mode? |
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| 18:29.10 | jim | when you reinstalled with a buster netinstall (that's correct, right?), did its partitioner see the drive? |
| 18:29.50 | maher | mnuhmnuhL i get a splash screen on boot with an icon of a hd and a magnifying glass, and the text "No Bootable Device" |
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| 18:30.17 | maher | mnuhmnuh: if i press f2 on boot i can get to the bios menu, which seems to see the hd and have it first in boot order |
| 18:30.44 | jim | also, where did you install grub on the buster install when it came time to do it? |
| 18:30.45 | maher | jim: yes the buster installer can see the internal hd |
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| 18:31.31 | mnuhmnuh | maher: bad install, bad drive? hmph. |
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| 18:33.06 | maher | mnuhmnuh: i can use the netinstall usb in rescue mode and mount the hd and chroot in - I think I messed something up with the boot process, but I don't know what |
| 18:33.45 | greycat | Is SecureBoot involved somehow? I know nothing about it except that it exists and sometimes messes things up. |
| 18:34.22 | maher | greycat: i turned off secure boot in the bios... |
| 18:34.29 | mnuhmnuh | or maybe just needs a grub-install? |
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| 18:35.17 | mnuhmnuh | to the right place (device, not ptn)? |
| 18:36.30 | brontosaurusrex_ | microdisplacement part3 https://cdn.scrot.moe/images/2018/06/27/bunsenMicro6d_gimp1.png |
| 18:36.53 | mnuhmnuh | wtf? |
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| 18:37.07 | brontosaurusrex_ | wrong channel |
| 18:37.07 | maher | mnuhmnuh: i ran it from the rescue disc menu - i will try running it from the chroot... |
| 18:37.57 | greycat | !reinstall grub |
| 18:37.57 | dpkg | See http://wiki.debian.org/GrubRecover http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch08s07.html . Boot a CD like <grml>, mount your disk read/write, (mount boot partition into your / partition if applicable,) mount -o bind /dev/ /your/root/dev; chroot /your/root; mount -t proc none /proc; grub-install /dev/foo (you may need to edit /etc/mtab and/or /boot/grub/device.map). Also ask me about <fixmbr> <rescue mode>. |
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| 18:38.39 | mnuhmnuh | ooohh, good one. |
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| 18:41.07 | mnuhmnuh | surprised to see dpkg recommend grml. a debian install image ought to work. |
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| 18:48.31 | maher | ok - i think at some point i installed the efi grub instead of the pc grub - maybe this messed with something - but i think the machine supports both bios and efi - how do i know which one i should be using? |
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| 18:53.43 | greycat | First clue is whether your intended boot disk has an EFI partition. |
| 18:53.56 | mnuhmnuh | maher: is this dual boot win & linux? do you need efi? |
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| 18:59.05 | maher | linux only - how do i know if i have an efi partition? I don't think so... |
| 18:59.33 | maher | but there used to be one before the reinstall |
| 18:59.53 | greycat | Well, if there isn't one now, then UEFI booting will definitely not work. |
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| 19:01.44 | maher | thanks for your help! - got to run errands - will be back at some point... |
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| 19:03.54 | Voss | Tom-_: with more detail? |
| 19:04.39 | Tom-_ | Voss: yeah, maybe try a few more things and post that too |
| 19:04.49 | Tom-_ | sometimes helps |
| 19:07.20 | mnuhmnuh | i'm thankful i saw ultrix, aix, hpux, sunos, ... before stumbling into linux. kids these days don't have that luxury. |
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| 19:18.23 | hypn0 | won't *efi be fixed in next release |
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| 19:20.51 | jhutchins_wk | hypn0: What about efi? |
| 19:25.14 | hypn0 | won't it be fixed next time jhutchins_wk |
| 19:25.41 | hypn0 | so you won't have to mess with the bios |
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| 19:27.02 | jhutchins_wk | hypn0: I don't know, I've been working with efi for ten years on systems that don't have a BIOS, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. |
| 19:27.42 | jhutchins_wk | hypn0: If I understand the current arrangement, you can optionally boot a system in "legacy" mode and it will behave as if it were a pre-efi bios system, but that's optional. |
| 19:27.44 | hypn0 | when computer starts, *efi, you have to change hardware settings |
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| 19:28.04 | jhutchins_wk | hypn0: It depends on how you set it up. |
| 19:28.12 | hypn0 | sorry, mixing bios/*efi |
| 19:28.32 | jhutchins_wk | !efi |
| 19:28.33 | dpkg | Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) is a firmware interface specification, intended to replace the <BIOS> firmware interface. Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later releases support installation in (U)EFI mode on 64-bit PC systems (amd64), <secure boot> is currently not supported. http://www.uefi.org/ |
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| 19:29.53 | hypn0 | yeah, should be fixed in next release, so you buy new computer, and just install linux :-) |
| 19:30.16 | greycat | I still don't know what problem you're talking about. |
| 19:30.41 | reckneck_ | Vinchi you here |
| 19:30.43 | greycat | Do you mean "having to tell the firmware to boot the install CD in legacy mode if you don't want to do an EFI grub install"? |
| 19:32.27 | hypn0 | no, not having to worryy abt buying an *efi system, then turning off secure boot |
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| 19:32.41 | greycat | Oh, secure boot? I still don't know anything about secure boot. |
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| 19:33.32 | hypn0 | hy I still get bios systems, easier :-) |
| 19:33.39 | hypn0 | why* |
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| 19:38.48 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Secure Boot was developed by Intel under Microsoft's urging as a way to prevent people from installing Linux on systems built for Windows. |
| 19:39.27 | hypn0 | yeah,that's why it's a bug needing fixing :-) |
| 19:39.32 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Some of Intel's other customers took them aside and did a little explaining, and Intel "fixed" it so you still can install what you want. |
| 19:39.34 | mnuhmnuh | jhutchins_wk: the party line. no it was to protect against boot viruses. |
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| 19:40.03 | jhutchins_wk | mnuhmnuh: Not according to the Intel engineers I knew at the time. |
| 19:40.09 | mnuhmnuh | i've never seen one, but that's why it exists. |
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| 19:40.51 | jhutchins_wk | hypn0: Secure Boot compatibility is something you pay for, not something you fix. |
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| 19:42.09 | mnuhmnuh | jhutchins_wk: just because the other guys are a-holes doesn't mean they're conspiring against you. |
| 19:42.10 | poprocks | I don't really remember tre being any tranansparency with secure boot being introduced. It seems like it just suddenly appeared one day. |
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| 19:42.56 | mnuhmnuh | poprocks: then redhat and canonical stood up and said wut? |
| 19:43.26 | mnuhmnuh | ma/intel backed off. |
| 19:43.34 | mnuhmnuh | s/ma/ms/ |
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| 19:44.27 | poprocks | Isn't it convenient that MS always gets to be on the ground floor with these things to be ready to have software that supports it from day zero, and everyone else is then left scrambling. |
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| 19:46.01 | mnuhmnuh | poprocks: ms is being pummeled in the press for supporting ice separating kids from illegals (techdirt). real stoopid co. |
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| 19:54.25 | Tech_8 | hi |
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| 20:17.46 | danwellby | can someone tell me why this is happing? https://pastebin.com/K4PMSwHV |
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| 20:18.11 | rant | I need some ass-sistance cause I just locked up my machine due to totally running out of memory without any swap and sysd/jounald went nuts.. I managed to SAK and free up about 700-800MB in time but beore I could reboot to stop whatever was going on it was eating up the space I just freed on the rootfs.. I'm not really sure what happened I dont see how journald could've possibly eaten up like 400MB or more |
| 20:18.17 | rant | in the minute or so it took me to get the system down. I need to free that space back up any suggestions? |
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| 20:19.31 | rant | /var/log is over 600MB and I dont know systemd well enough to know what to do or where all it was chewing up hdd space |
| 20:19.49 | greycat | well, start with "cd /var/log; du -sk *" or something |
| 20:20.08 | rant | is it still save to just delete logs in /var/log with systemd/journald? |
| 20:20.13 | rant | safe even |
| 20:20.25 | greycat | Truncating is better than removing, typically. |
| 20:20.27 | annadane | danwellby, first of all give us your /etc/apt/sources.list - paste to paste.debian.net |
| 20:20.42 | greycat | Beyond that, *which file* are you thinking of messing with? |
| 20:21.04 | rant | whichever one is 600MB :P |
| 20:21.08 | rant | looks |
| 20:21.40 | danwellby | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/46de3876/ |
| 20:21.56 | rant | greycat: daemon and syslog are about 300mb each |
| 20:22.45 | rant | greycat: how would I go about merely truncating rather than deleting these files? |
| 20:22.51 | greycat | > filename |
| 20:23.06 | rant | o.O |
| 20:23.56 | Voss | RIght, I see Tom-_ |
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| 20:24.16 | annadane | i'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that sources.list, actually |
| 20:24.17 | Voss | I'm not sure how the forum post isn't sufficient info Tom-_ |
| 20:24.21 | Voss | In all honesty |
| 20:24.25 | annadane | anyone else know? |
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| 20:25.25 | rant | seems like its mostly all lines about getty@tty1.service: having no holdoff time, scheduling restart followed by stop job pending, delaying restart.. repeated over and over 300mb worth |
| 20:25.54 | rant | being that its the same message I could just use sed I suppose? |
| 20:25.55 | greycat | If it continues writing them after the truncation then you'll have to find out why, to stop them. |
| 20:26.06 | rant | I rebooted to stop it :P |
| 20:26.14 | rant | I just want the space back.. its an 8GB ssd |
| 20:26.15 | greycat | *Did* it stop? If so, that's good. |
| 20:26.22 | greycat | Truncate the file and you should be fine. |
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| 20:26.44 | rant | yeah it def stopped or we wouldnt be having this conversation because I'd be out of disk space |
| 20:27.33 | mnuhmnuh | danwellby: videolan? |
| 20:27.42 | rant | all my monitors in my panel are chilled out now I just am at only like 300MB available on / |
| 20:27.54 | rant | I need that 600MB back |
| 20:28.04 | greycat | Truncate the file. Do it already. |
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| 20:29.00 | rant | I'm not a bash expert like you. I don't understand what you said to do |
| 20:29.01 | danwellby | mnuhmnuh, vlc as libcss was missing when I built the node |
| 20:29.14 | greycat | Type the > sign and then press the space bar and then type the filename and then press Enter. |
| 20:29.30 | karlpinc | rant: That will truncate the file to 0 bytes. |
| 20:29.49 | mnuhmnuh | danwellby: videolan stable, on stretch. frankendebian? |
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| 20:30.09 | rant | hmm.. idk how that works but I'll take your word for it |
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| 20:30.40 | greycat | It runs the null command with stdout redirected to the file you are truncating. So, the shell opens the file for write/truncation, does nothing, then closes the file. |
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| 20:30.59 | greycat | If this is too simple, you can use a longer command like true > filename |
| 20:31.07 | mnuhmnuh | cat > file ;; ctrl-d |
| 20:31.15 | karlpinc | echo -n "" > filename |
| 20:31.21 | danwellby | It is one of debian's own official servers spitting out the issue |
| 20:31.27 | danwellby | E: The repository 'http://uk.debian.org/debian stretch-updates Release' does not have a Release file. |
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| 20:32.32 | danwellby | I could rebuild the laptop if needed |
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| 20:33.54 | mnuhmnuh | danwellby: better to use https://deb.debian.org/... and let debian's new dns server magic figure it out. |
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| 20:34.11 | danwellby | there is a -5 error with uk.debian.org |
| 20:34.18 | greycat | Or use one of the actual correct round robin names, like http://ftp.uk.debian.org |
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| 20:36.01 | annadane | ah. |
| 20:36.06 | annadane | should've checked more closely |
| 20:36.46 | danwellby | huh, that worked thank you |
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| 20:37.26 | mnuhmnuh | what worked? |
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| 20:38.31 | danwellby | changing uk.debian.org to deb.debian.org |
| 20:38.47 | mnuhmnuh | snoopydance! |
| 20:39.00 | annadane | SUPPERTIME!? |
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| 20:52.30 | rant | I'm not sure what exactly took place while all this was going on.. but near as I can tell it was trying to login on tty1 that was what made shit worse |
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| 20:53.05 | rant | I'd done that because my keyboard has no sysrq.. I had to dig in my drawer to pull out that little keyboard remote I have to SAK |
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| 20:53.54 | rant | I need to make some swap space to avoid this problem :P |
| 20:54.45 | mnuhmnuh | what does that even mean? |
| 20:55.41 | rant | what does WHAT mean? |
| 20:56.29 | greycat | Not sure what it meant, but *my* thoughts are "how would adding swap have avoided being spammed by a broken tty1 login of some kind" |
| 20:57.01 | jelly | "my /var/log is on a tmpfs" |
| 20:57.04 | rant | the problem started with running out of ram.. I went to tty1 to try kill something since I couldnt sysrq due to lack of a sysrq key |
| 20:57.15 | rant | if I'd had swap I wouldnt have been locking up to begin with |
| 20:57.37 | jelly | or so you think |
| 20:57.59 | jelly | lack of swap makes OOM trigger sooner |
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| 20:58.46 | rant | swapping will slow things down but give you time to fix the issue |
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| 20:59.08 | rant | OOM situation on the other hand doesnt slow things down, it screeches them to a halt :P |
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| 21:00.05 | jelly | swapping will make a machine a lot more unusable than OOM |
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| 21:00.55 | rant | idk I still think vlc is just using too much f'n memory.. its treating my ram like an all you can eat buffet |
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| 21:01.26 | greycat | nom nom nom |
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| 21:01.50 | rant | and when it does it, its not cache, its showing dark green on my graph.. cache and shared are a lighter green |
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| 21:02.38 | rant | it starts out a few hundred megs.. reasonable.. after playing a few minutes It's consumed gigabytes worth |
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| 21:03.05 | rant | which is fine if I'm only running a terminal with mosh .. but if I got chromium open like I did.. thats a different story |
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| 21:03.43 | hypn0 | how much ram you talking abt |
| 21:03.52 | greycat | #757526 is the first google hit |
| 21:03.53 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/757526 in vlc (closed, upstream, moreinfo): «vlc: memory leak with play rtmp-stream»; severity: normal; opened: 2014-08-08; last modified: 2015-06-08. |
| 21:04.30 | rant | I have 4Gb which is shared with video, vlc is using like 1.8GB or more most of the time to play rather small local files |
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| 21:05.06 | greycat | maybe you should stop using vlc |
| 21:05.15 | greycat | are other players having the same issue? |
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| 21:05.30 | jelly | I have no clude about "dark green", can you translate that to "free" output |
| 21:05.38 | hypn0 | I don't have vlc, mpv |
| 21:06.08 | johnkeates | lol, other players, vlc isn't the best, but the rest is so much worse :p |
| 21:06.23 | hypn0 | dvds play in stretch too now |
| 21:06.23 | rant | I'm referring to mate system monitor panel applet and the fact it can color code differnt things |
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| 21:07.04 | rant | johnkeates: yeah thats the issue.. mpv has no interface at all like mplayer it was based on.. and the rest of em are severly lacking as well |
| 21:07.12 | jelly | I'm referring to "helping deciphering GUI components over irc is silly, show text output" |
| 21:07.35 | johnkeates | cvlc or something like that exists that does no gui but only playback with console controls IIRC |
| 21:07.47 | rant | vlc has a media library I can use to build playlists and perform shuffle plaback and such easily |
| 21:08.24 | jelly | possibly easier than mpv -shuffle /some/dir |
| 21:08.29 | hypn0 | there are guis for mpv too, smplayer |
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| 21:08.45 | rant | but I swear while its not a typical memory leak where it just keeps eating till there is no more, it eats more than I can imagine it reasonable needs and isnt doing it as shared/cache so other things can use it if need be |
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| 21:09.48 | rant | I rather my video lag than anything else |
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| 21:09.59 | jelly | I can honestly say I've never seen vlc eat lots of RAM, unless it was used for complex transcoding |
| 21:10.31 | jelly | like muxing 9 streams with a geometry into a new mosaic stream |
| 21:11.02 | jelly | and mpv has a perfect interface, keyboard only :-) |
| 21:11.12 | annadane | i wonder if trying it with another user helps at all |
| 21:11.17 | annadane | though i wouldn't especially see why |
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| 21:11.38 | rant | well I'm typically decoding mp4(h264/aac) from a USB SATA drive thats encrypted, and its usually low res.. 480p on average.. sometimes as much as 720p or as little as 188p and upscaling it to 1024x768 |
| 21:12.06 | hypn0 | you have an mpv config file too |
| 21:12.18 | rant | files usually range rom about 20mb to 300mb in file size |
| 21:13.07 | jelly | is this an x86 machine or some embedded arm or what? |
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| 21:14.08 | rant | HP t520 ThinClient (AMD GX-212JC SOC with Radeon(TM) R2E Graphics) 4GB ram / 8GB SSD |
| 21:14.17 | jelly | x86, then |
| 21:14.19 | rant | dual displays |
| 21:14.47 | jelly | _and_ embedded, kinda |
| 21:14.56 | rant | yeah pretty much.. |
| 21:16.48 | jelly | do you have vaapi decoding? |
| 21:17.49 | rant | Flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl aperfmperf eagerfpu pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 xsave lahf_lm kaiser tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority dtherm |
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| 21:18.51 | jelly | rant: vainfo command |
| 21:19.16 | jelly | it's gpu and driver functionality |
| 21:19.35 | rant | ah |
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| 21:21.24 | jelly | hm, I'm not sure whether amd gpu do vaapi or vdpau |
| 21:21.59 | jelly | if vainfo shows nothing, try vdpauinfo, and install mesa-vdpau-drivers before that |
| 21:21.59 | rant | jelly: seems like vaapi http://paste.debian.net/1031049/ |
| 21:22.14 | rant | I had to install that vainfo thing |
| 21:22.42 | jelly | right, so you should have accelerated h264 decoding |
| 21:24.09 | jelly | I don't know whether vlc gets it right automatically. mpv in stretch needs an explicit --hwdec=vaapi I think |
| 21:25.00 | rant | just realized those cpu flags were for the Core2Duo E8400 not the AMD GX-212JC |
| 21:25.27 | rant | I used /exec -o lscpu|grep Flags: not thinking about the fact I'm running irssi remotely |
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| 21:26.16 | rant | fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc rep_good acc_power nopl nonstop_tsc extd_apicid aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq monitor ssse3 cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs skinit wdt |
| 21:26.22 | rant | topoext perfctr_nb bpext ptsc perfctr_l2 cpb hw_pstate vmmcall bmi1 xsaveopt arat npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save tsc_scale flushbyasid decodeassists pausefilter pfthreshold overflow_recov |
| 21:26.29 | rant | hmm that was two lines.. looked like only one |
| 21:26.55 | rant | but it was the virualization that tipped me off which this doesnt have |
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| 21:27.10 | jelly | it does have, amd's svm |
| 21:27.24 | jelly | but not relevant |
| 21:29.39 | rant | it shows hyper threading.. I thought hyper threaded CPUs show up like seperate cores or each thread.. |
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| 21:31.28 | rant | says two cpu, cores per socket 2, threads per core 1. |
| 21:31.31 | jelly | none of that matters for memory usage in video decoding and reproduction |
| 21:31.54 | rant | yeah, I'm just realizing these thigns for the first time :P |
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| 21:32.46 | rant | thought a hyperthreaded dual core would be 4 threads but this isnt.. maybe its just some odd configuration since its an SoC |
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| 21:34.57 | rant | I never did benchmark the media extensions.. I compared crypto, math, integer ops, disk i/o etc with a Pentium M 1.8 and Core2Duo E8400 system but I never got around to seeing how it measured up on media accel |
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| 21:39.13 | jelly | these are not "media extensions", this is GPU decoding |
| 21:40.18 | jelly | when it works, it uses less power than cpu decoding |
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| 21:43.15 | rant | yeah well thats what I'm reerring to.. I never did like an ffmpeg benchmark to see how it perorms |
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| 21:56.54 | jelly | maybe it performs different than "eats 2GB RAM with local files" |
| 21:58.27 | jelly | & |
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| 22:13.35 | Neymar_sem_Copa | exit |
| 22:13.44 | Neymar_sem_Copa | alemanha |
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| 22:29.12 | A|an | Has anyone installed google-earth, using googleearth-package? |
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| 22:29.58 | A|an | Supposedly it'll take the google earth installer and build a debian package |
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| 22:33.07 | rofl_ | i got http://pkg-shadow.alioth.debian.org/ as the url for the shadow-utils CentOS package but that URL isn't loading... |
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| 22:33.23 | rofl_ | is this a temporary issue? |
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| 22:34.01 | Guest34648 | dude |
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| 22:36.51 | annadane | rofl_, debian no longer uses alioth |
| 22:36.57 | annadane | all that stuff was migrated to salsa.debian.org |
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| 22:37.36 | annadane | but why are you looking for a centos package in debian? |
| 22:37.59 | rofl_ | the url had "debian.org" in it so i asked about it here |
| 22:38.15 | rofl_ | i was looking for the package sources |
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| 22:40.46 | annadane | the one for centos is likely different than the one in debian |
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| 22:49.08 | mac` | good day, i am having issues installing Horde https://pastebin.com/WUdE4de3 |
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