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| 00:02.07 | RoyK | kodi/openelec certainly doesn't support that hardware, at least didn't last I checked |
| 00:03.22 | usney3 | hmm |
| 00:03.37 | usney3 | RoyK which single board computers do you recommend? |
| 00:04.02 | RoyK | just get a raspberry pi, either a 3+ or just a zero w |
| 00:04.24 | RoyK | the zero w is tiny, costs very little, and will do for a small mediaentre |
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| 00:08.33 | usney3 | well I found out which debian iso to download for the orange pi RoyK |
| 00:08.47 | usney3 | armhf because the cpu is armv7 |
| 00:09.09 | RoyK | go on - but it's quicker to get a pi zero than to try to get kodi or similar into the opi |
| 00:09.19 | RoyK | better use the opi for something else |
| 00:09.27 | usney3 | like server? |
| 00:09.39 | RoyK | or some sensor or some toy or whatever |
| 00:09.51 | RoyK | has a few opi zeros for small projects |
| 00:10.28 | RoyK | hook a dht-22 and perhaps a pressure sensor to it and you have a tiny weather station |
| 00:10.45 | RoyK | add some LEDs and you have a light show |
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| 00:11.13 | usney3 | I see |
| 00:11.18 | RoyK | the only thing stopping you is your fantasy (and perhaps money) |
| 00:11.48 | usney3 | I love saving money |
| 00:11.57 | usney3 | well I'll look at the specs more closely |
| 00:12.03 | RoyK | components from ebay doesn't cost much |
| 00:12.18 | usney3 | like the case? |
| 00:12.20 | RoyK | get a kit and start playing around with it |
| 00:12.36 | RoyK | just prints those cases |
| 00:12.40 | RoyK | or chassises |
| 00:13.19 | RoyK | I bought a cr-10s a month or two back :D |
| 00:13.31 | RoyK | nice toy |
| 00:13.47 | usney3 | cool |
| 00:14.38 | RoyK | took a wee while to getting used to, but as of now it's the most stable 3d printer I've worked with, and I've been using quite a few in my time |
| 00:15.06 | RoyK | and at that price and size⦠|
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| 00:19.20 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.5 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:20.40 | usney3 | RoyK just looked at the specs on wiki and looks like the new orange pi plus gpu is faster |
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| 00:21.13 | RoyK | usney3: doesn't matter if the software doesn't support its gpu |
| 00:21.35 | usney3 | guess you're right about that |
| 00:21.42 | usney3 | well I am just going to swing it |
| 00:21.48 | usney3 | wing* |
| 00:22.01 | usney3 | that's how it is with the cheapie sometimes you win a great deal |
| 00:22.04 | RoyK | thinking on running kodi on this? |
| 00:22.19 | usney3 | maybe |
| 00:22.25 | usney3 | I am not sure |
| 00:22.37 | cheapie | usney3: Yeah, I don't make a very good GPU though :P |
| 00:22.52 | michael2 | is there a way I can start and use ssh-agent - without an X system? |
| 00:23.28 | usney3 | never used the ssh-agent I thought it was a command option? |
| 00:23.54 | usney3 | I mean command so should work without an x system afaik |
| 00:24.30 | usney3 | I use SSH but I haven't use the ssh-agent yet |
| 00:24.43 | michael2 | well.... according to the man page - there are two ways to use it |
| 00:25.01 | usney3 | let me check |
| 00:26.45 | usney3 | are you trying to get rid of your x system? |
| 00:27.01 | michael2 | no, i just havent yet installed it |
| 00:27.08 | usney3 | oh okay |
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| 00:27.24 | usney3 | just install debian netinstall without a gui |
| 00:27.40 | michael2 | thats what I did |
| 00:27.56 | usney3 | so what is not working? |
| 00:28.18 | michael2 | ssh-agent |
| 00:28.42 | michael2 | because the way debian sets it up - you have to run X |
| 00:28.44 | usney3 | well I am not familiar with that wish I could help I would assume that it doesn't need the gui |
| 00:28.55 | michael2 | before the agent is initialised |
| 00:29.18 | usney3 | I use openssh just not ssh-agent |
| 00:29.32 | usney3 | anyone have any ideas with michael2 problem? |
| 00:30.12 | michael2 | ssh-agent is part of openssh |
| 00:30.26 | michael2 | its in openssh-client package |
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| 00:43.29 | mason | michael2: What's the goal? |
| 00:44.18 | michael2 | initialise ssh-agent - in a non X environment |
| 00:44.20 | mason | michael2: Something I typically do is run an agent setup script on login, whether it's .xsession or a shell. |
| 00:45.00 | michael2 | so do you do something like `eval ssh-agent' ? |
| 00:45.30 | mason | michael2: Similar. I run it and save its output, and then I source the output from various places. |
| 00:45.35 | michael2 | the problem with that - is other terminals won't get the SSH_AUTH_SOCK env var |
| 00:45.48 | mason | michael2: No, you capture ssh-agent's output when it starts, and it gives you that. |
| 00:45.52 | mason | Been doing it for many years. |
| 00:45.57 | michael2 | yes! thats a nice idea :) |
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| 00:47.52 | michael2 | where you save the output of ssh-agent to? |
| 00:48.07 | michael2 | /tmp/ssh-agent ? |
| 00:48.40 | mason | File in my home directory. Sometimes with the hostname as a component, in case my home directory is NFS-shared. |
| 00:49.01 | michael2 | and then just have a test like [[ -f /tmp/ssh-agent ]]; then source /tmp/ssh-agent; fi ? |
| 00:49.26 | mason | Yep. |
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| 00:49.42 | michael2 | have you tried using gpg-agent for ssh-agent (via emulation) ? |
| 00:50.15 | mason | michael2: I'd like to. As I understand it, it's easier to connect to one where you don't know the socket off the bat. Just haven't taken the time. |
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| 00:52.14 | michael2 | hmmm. I thought it was only gpg that could connect even when there is no GPG_AGENT_INFO var |
| 00:52.32 | michael2 | pretty sure ssh-client needs SSH_AUTH_SOCK always |
| 00:53.18 | spacedust | is there a way to list installed packages but just the ones i actually installed not the dependencies also ? |
| 00:53.26 | spacedust | im looking for what did i apt install XYZ ? |
| 00:53.50 | michael2 | spacedust: I think you want the "manually" installed packages |
| 00:54.25 | spacedust | michael2: yes thats the word i was looking for thanks |
| 00:54.51 | michael2 | something like: |
| 00:56.49 | michael2 | aptitude search '?installed(.*)' -F '%c %p' |
| 00:57.30 | michael2 | but I dont know the aptitude flag for manually installed - if you find that out you can grep for that flag |
| 00:58.12 | mason | michael2: gpgconf --list-dirs agent-ssh-socket seems to emit the socket on demand |
| 00:58.19 | mason | michael2: I think I'll probably give it a try this week. |
| 00:58.53 | michael2 | spacedust: apt-mark showmanual |
| 01:00.04 | michael2 | mason: right but the client need to know to run tht command, right? I dont think ssh-client knows that - but newer gpg's (from about v2) know this |
| 01:00.38 | mason | michael2: You don't need ssh to know it, just get it into your environment in .shrc or .xsession or similar. |
| 01:01.38 | michael2 | mason: that is right, but its more complicated - its honestly very difficult to setup - in my experience |
| 01:02.29 | mason | michael2: It'd be like what I'm doing, but you could use an existing agent more easily. |
| 01:03.30 | michael2 | mason: lol - thats what you _think_ will happen. I thought the same thing too - until I tried it :) |
| 01:03.46 | mason | michael2: Worst case, I keep doing what I've been doing since the late 90s. |
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| 01:04.06 | michael2 | mason: ok, you should know |
| 01:04.30 | michael2 | gotchas to watch for |
| 01:05.24 | michael2 | you need to set the enable-ssh-support in ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf |
| 01:05.45 | mason | The only real gotcha is if there's an agent already there when you come in, where you need to figure out if you need to add your key or not. |
| 01:06.18 | michael2 | if you want the scripts in /etc/X11/Xsessiond/90gpg-agent. to detect that you want to use gpg-agent for ssh-agent |
| 01:06.34 | spacedust | michael2: apt-mark showmanual works thanks |
| 01:07.04 | michael2 | mason: also - I think `ssh-add <key>' is possibly broken |
| 01:07.04 | spacedust | michael2: but lists a lot of packages |
| 01:07.09 | michael2 | spacedust: np |
| 01:07.25 | mason | michael2: After I try it I'll ping you with results. |
| 01:07.58 | michael2 | mason: cool :) |
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| 01:08.29 | michael2 | spacedust: yeah I thnk the system has forcibly marked some packages "manual" - thats why the extras |
| 01:08.59 | Vall | How do I configure APT to exclude from updates something that I installed manually (and intend to keep manually)? |
| 01:09.19 | mason | Funny you should ask! |
| 01:09.53 | spacedust | michael2: its good |
| 01:09.53 | michael2 | Vall: you can hold packages |
| 01:09.56 | Vall | In case it matters, I manually compiled and installed zfs-0.7.9, and don't want `apt-get upgrade` to replace iot with the repo version |
| 01:10.07 | Vall | iot -> it |
| 01:10.17 | mason | Vall: Observe the apt-mark conversation, and read the apt-mark(8) man page - read the "hold" entry. |
| 01:10.21 | spacedust | michael2: i actually run the command on a system which is kind of bloated :)) |
| 01:10.29 | michael2 | Vall: in this case apt/dpkg won't mangage that - I dont think |
| 01:10.33 | mason | Vall: You know ZOL 0.7.9 is in backports...? |
| 01:10.58 | spacedust | michael2: on the system i was looking for packages i installed its okay i can find my packages so thank you very much |
| 01:10.58 | Vall | mason: thanks, it's that I compiled mine with special options |
| 01:11.14 | Vall | mason, michael2: thanks |
| 01:11.15 | mason | It is a package of special conscience. |
| 01:11.22 | Vall | waves |
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| 01:11.30 | mason | oh, right, it's not a package |
| 01:12.31 | spacedust | if im running any debian based distro and enable debian unstable repository will my installed packages get updated to a newer version if its found in debian unstable ? or i speficially need to install from there or only packages installed from there would be upgraded ? |
| 01:13.11 | mason | !frankendebian |
| 01:13.11 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 01:14.04 | michael2 | !reinstall |
| 01:14.04 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, reinstall is aptitude reinstall '~i' ; or COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y --reinstall install, or dpkg --get-selections > my_packages.txt , then later, dpkg --set-selections < my_packages.txt && apt-get install . See also <aptitude clone>, <debian clone>. |
| 01:17.47 | spacedust | well i would still like to know :) |
| 01:18.21 | mason | Tell us what happens! |
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| 01:18.39 | spacedust | im updating a debian 9 as we speak :) just was curious about how it would work |
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| 01:19.22 | spacedust | i mean i have package X version Y in debian-clone repo, + debian unstable package X with with version Y+1 @ apt upgrade i get Y+1 ? |
| 01:19.27 | michael2 | spacedust: you can check your self with: `apt-cache policy <package>' but I think mason's point was - there are better ways |
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| 01:19.52 | spacedust | its just a test system, nothing special |
| 01:20.00 | spacedust | not my main os |
| 01:21.17 | michael2 | !brideoffrankendebian |
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| 02:27.58 | ozzloy | anyone got a definitive guide to unfucking bluetooth on debian stretch? |
| 02:33.26 | spacedust | i cant find localepurge, i have a 600mb locale directory i need only 1 locale :) |
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| 02:48.06 | usney3 | hey RoyK |
| 02:48.23 | usney3 | did you check out the new orange pi prime? |
| 02:48.38 | usney3 | it looks more powerful than raspberry pi 3 |
| 02:48.47 | usney3 | 2gb of ram |
| 02:49.01 | usney3 | builtin wifi and bluetooth |
| 02:50.07 | usney3 | http://www.orangepi.org/OrangePiPrime/ |
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| 02:57.36 | usney3 | https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Orange-Pi-Prime-Development-Board-H5-Quad-core-Support-linux-and-android-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/1553371_32803048527.html |
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| 03:11.58 | [Awaxx] | It's not opensource... you'll have full GPU support only using android... |
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| 03:13.49 | usney3 | any of the orange pis? [Awaxx] |
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| 03:15.18 | [Awaxx] | Well it uses mali GPU I guess |
| 03:15.44 | [Awaxx] | You might find some working half working driver around |
| 03:16.03 | [Awaxx] | half working* |
| 03:16.27 | [Awaxx] | rofl wrote working 2 times |
| 03:16.31 | [Awaxx] | :Ã |
| 03:16.39 | [Awaxx] | 's tired |
| 03:18.41 | Gerowen | Yay my Debian based Rust server is working properly after migrating the system to an SSD, :-D |
| 03:19.18 | usney3 | I recently migrated to an ssd |
| 03:19.22 | usney3 | :) |
| 03:20.14 | Gerowen | All my systems run on SSD for the operating system now. My storage drives are still HDDs because you can't get a 12TB SSD for $500, but the system itself boots and shuts down insanely fast now with an SSD. |
| 03:20.45 | Gerowen | I shut it down via SSH earlier to install another hard drive that came in the mail and it was powered off before I could get into the closet where it's stored, :p |
| 03:20.49 | dvs | steals the SSD |
| 03:21.27 | dead0xbeef | there's no going back after an SSD |
| 03:21.49 | squarecircle | lets dvs trip, takes the SSD and gives it back to Gerowen |
| 03:22.05 | dvs | keener! |
| 03:23.18 | squarecircle | agrees to Gerowen |
| 03:24.03 | squarecircle | I run my storage server with an 32GB cheap China SSD |
| 03:24.19 | dvs | Wow! That's small! |
| 03:25.16 | Gerowen | I guess as long as it's big enough to hold your operating system then it's big enough, keep everything else on HDDs. |
| 03:25.40 | squarecircle | I think I run Debian. I guess it works. Would I use Winbloats, yup that would suck |
| 03:26.15 | squarecircle | does not agree with Gerowen anymore |
| 03:27.38 | squarecircle | I'd like to replace the 6x4TB scratch HDDs with SSDs, but that would sum up to ~2k4⬠|
| 03:28.29 | squarecircle | compared to ~600⬠for HDDs ... |
| 03:28.54 | Gerowen | I did put Rust and Minecraft on the SSD; it's 500GB and I figure that would help speed up terrain generation when people explore new areas. |
| 03:29.04 | squarecircle | the cold storage is some 84x1TB in Fibrechannel shelves |
| 03:29.09 | squarecircle | ... |
| 03:30.13 | squarecircle | which, replaced with SSDs, would cost 16k⬠... |
| 03:30.20 | Gerowen | Yeah I have considered putting something else out in the storage shed as cold storage or an "off-site" backup, just something not in the house, not part of the main server. |
| 03:30.35 | dvs | yeah, 2400 would be a bargain! |
| 03:30.58 | squarecircle | does really, really likes SSDs, but 18k4⬠for all flash storage is way too expensive |
| 03:32.10 | squarecircle | maybe, if the QLC works out to be extremely cheap, I'd change one compute server to all flash |
| 03:34.10 | squarecircle | Gerowen: some ZFS with old 4TB disks? |
| 03:34.11 | *** part/#debian cluelessperson (~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson) |
| 03:36.59 | Gerowen | Could definitely just stick a bunch of smaller drives into a larger logical volume. |
| 03:37.13 | Gerowen | I haven't looked, I wonder if I could get more storage for less if I got it out of smaller capacity drives. |
| 03:38.13 | squarecircle | theres an cost efficiency curve which led me to buy 4TB drives |
| 03:39.52 | Gerowen | Well I hate to run but I've gotta go to work in the morning, so I'm gonna lay down. If you or anybody else plays Rust and wants to check it out my server is up and running; listed under the "Community" tab as "Gerowen's Rust Server". |
| 03:40.20 | squarecircle | Gerowen: have a nice rest |
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| 03:43.27 | squarecircle | I'm off too, good night |
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| 03:52.58 | Neobenedict | hi i get this error trying to install wireguard |
| 03:52.59 | Neobenedict | Module build for the currently running kernel was skipped since the |
| 03:52.59 | Neobenedict | kernel source for this kernel does not seem to be installed. |
| 03:53.25 | Neobenedict | linux-compiler-gcc-4.9-x86 linux-headers-3.16.0-6-amd64 linux-headers-3.16.0-6-common linux-headers-amd64 linux-kbuild-3.16 are all installed |
| 03:54.46 | Neobenedict | i will try apt-get upgrade as my kernel is 3.16.0-5 |
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| 03:59.04 | Neobenedict | okay had to manually install linux-headers-3.16.0-6-amd64 linux-headers-3.16.0-6-common |
| 03:59.08 | Neobenedict | no idea wtf this kernel is doing |
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| 05:06.22 | usney3 | RoyK http://www.retrorangepi.org/ |
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| 05:09.28 | Gigglebyte | Is there an address book in the back ports that allows imported data as well as exported? The only functional address book I found in the repos is DLume, but it won't allow you to import data; only export. KAddresBook doesn't work and has bugs. |
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| 06:05.01 | LevitusCommander | Hello, all! I had to override a package previously installed from the Debian repository with it's git version (that I built manually then) to circumvent a bug. Now, the dpkg database is out-of-sync and apt tries to actually downgrade this package (mailman). What to do? |
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| 06:48.01 | SirNeo | /clear |
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| 07:10.25 | diogenes_ | Hello guys, several days a ago i asked about how to switch off the system bell and i got this |
| 07:10.28 | diogenes_ | !bell |
| 07:10.28 | dpkg | To disable the bell: "xset b off" in X, "setterm -blength 0" in console. For some reason, bash beeps excessively when in emacs (default) mode; "set -o vi" puts it in vi editing mode, which doesn't beep on partial completions. In konsole, Settings->Bell->Visible Bell. See also <pcspkr>, <shell beep>, <metacity bell bug>. |
| 07:10.58 | diogenes_ | and that worked but it won't survive the restart and i've found that via dconf-editor /org/cinnamon/settings-daemon/peripherals/keyboard/bell-mode change to off |
| 07:11.16 | diogenes_ | will shut it off permanently, no need for any scripts |
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| 07:11.35 | diogenes_ | so i thought you can include that into the bot !bell script |
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| 07:30.54 | wrksx_ | mornin guys |
| 07:30.58 | darxmurf | yup |
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| 08:35.16 | wrksx_ | I just used 'top' command from cygwin for the first time and it displays a process hierarchy in such a nice way... Any idea where is this comming from and if the top I'm used to (Debian) has that capability ? |
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| 08:41.46 | wrksx_ | !bin |
| 08:41.46 | dpkg | [.bin] NOT a meaningful filename extension. "aptitude install file", then run file on your .bin and see what it is (or, read it with less). Or read the README file that should have come with it. If it looks like a shell script, try "sh myfile.bin". .bin is the extension used by some JDK installers (which are executable files) and is also a Macintosh archive format (MacBinary). If it is a CD image, ask me about <bin-cue>. |
| 08:41.50 | wrksx_ | !paste |
| 08:41.50 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 08:42.30 | wrksx_ | have a look http://paste.debian.net/hidden/4be51518/ |
| 08:43.21 | jelly | wrksx_: htop can show a process tree |
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| 08:44.48 | wrksx_ | jelly, ty didn't knew about htop |
| 08:44.52 | wrksx_ | it quite nice |
| 08:45.29 | wrksx_ | It displays an exclamation mark next to the uptime since it's so high =) |
| 08:45.42 | wrksx_ | 1371 days(!) |
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| 08:46.04 | wrksx_ | It seems really user friendy |
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| 08:46.48 | jelly | well a system with 1371 days old kernel might have security issues |
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| 08:46.50 | kopper | Your kernel must be ancient |
| 08:46.50 | wrksx_ | and the treeview is beautifull |
| 08:47.00 | wrksx_ | jelly, yeah |
| 08:47.34 | wrksx_ | 3.2.0-4 |
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| 08:47.54 | jelly | we'd have machines with 2000+ days uptime if power in our datacenters did not fail every 5-10 years or so :-) |
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| 08:48.25 | wrksx_ | jelly, basically it's up since the first boot 4 years ago approx |
| 08:48.37 | jelly | wrksx_: if you have to maintain wheezy systems consider making your company pay for ELTS |
| 08:48.56 | wrksx_ | hum, didn't know about that |
| 08:49.01 | wrksx_ | Extended LTS ? |
| 08:49.39 | jelly | yes |
| 08:49.49 | jelly | !elts |
| 08:49.55 | wrksx_ | VERY good to know |
| 08:50.13 | jelly | hm, let me write that up |
| 08:50.17 | wrksx_ | =) |
| 08:51.21 | wrksx_ | I'll upgrade soon, I need to change hardware anyway so that's the perfect moment to switch to the latest release |
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| 09:04.54 | jelly | !elts |
| 09:04.54 | dpkg | Limited commercial support for wheezy exists in form of Extended LTS, see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended and https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/ |
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| 09:25.22 | Mr-Potter | Hello everyone |
| 09:26.06 | Mr-Potter | I have a Lenovo Ideapad S10-2 which is quite old. I note that it is too old for the latest version of Ubuntu, which is Debian based. Will Stretch run on it? |
| 09:26.19 | Mr-Potter | Apparently no modern distro will run on it. |
| 09:27.32 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: How so? |
| 09:27.56 | pipedream | why not? because it is 32bit? |
| 09:27.59 | bites | try it with the i386 installer. |
| 09:28.01 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Debian support any x86 that is Pentium II or newer. |
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| 09:28.41 | Mr-Potter | petn-randall: Well to be honest the only distro I've tried is the latest version of Linux Mint (which is Ubuntu based), it has a glitchy log on screen and the update manager won't run. |
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| 09:30.07 | Mr-Potter | Thank you for your advice, I was unaware. Sorry for not checking! |
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| 09:31.37 | Mr-Potter | out of curiosity how do I see which packages are available on the 2nd and 3rd dvds? |
| 09:32.02 | Mr-Potter | Also does the OS come with a desktop eniveronment and if so which one? |
| 09:34.37 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Debian comes with whatever one you pick. I recommend using the network installer, which will only download the packages that are needed. Note that the complete set for i386 is 9(!) DVDs. |
| 09:34.49 | petn-randall | Sorry, 14 DVDs. |
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| 09:34.59 | petn-randall | https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-dvd/SHA512SUMS |
| 09:35.32 | Mr-Potter | Got it thank you, as I'm installing on a netbook which requires a propertiary wifi driver I will stick to the 1st DVD only but not the netinstaller as it won't work. |
| 09:35.33 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: The most common DEs are Gnome, KDE, and Xfce. There are even more esoteric ones you can pick during install. |
| 09:35.48 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: I'd say it's the other way around. |
| 09:35.50 | petn-randall | !firmware installer |
| 09:35.51 | dpkg | Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See http://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>. |
| 09:35.51 | Mr-Potter | petn-randall: I have the wifi drivers for ubuntu on a usb stick, will the same packages (.deb format) work on Debian? |
| 09:35.58 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Use this installer ^^^. |
| 09:36.12 | petn-randall | !firmware images |
| 09:36.12 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>. |
| 09:36.17 | petn-randall | Sorry, these here. ^^^ |
| 09:36.45 | Mr-Potter | got it |
| 09:37.10 | Mr-Potter | petn-randall: Sorry but what is the other way around? |
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| 09:38.36 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: It will work with the firmware image, but not with the DVD image. |
| 09:38.44 | petn-randall | "It" being your network card. |
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| 09:39.08 | Mr-Potter | petn-randall: Why can't I simply install the drivers from the internet (downloaded using another PC) |
| 09:40.21 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Sure, it's just extra work. |
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| 09:40.44 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: If you want to provide it by hand, the !firmware installer factoid tells you how to do that. |
| 09:41.06 | Mr-Potter | can I do it using .deb packages which work on ubuntu? |
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| 09:41.52 | BCMM | Mr-Potter: debian will prompt you to select a desktop environment during installation, like this https://i.imgur.com/LoIiGP0.jpg |
| 09:42.51 | BCMM | you can also download install images that come with desktop environments, but it's probably best to just use one of the smaller installers, that will fetch your DE of choice from the internet during installation |
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| 09:43.33 | BCMM | (hang on, did they replace that screen with a boot option in debian 9?) |
| 09:45.24 | Mr-Potter | got it |
| 09:45.49 | Mr-Potter | If I select an environment I don't like can I change my mind and opt for another one instead? |
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| 09:48.57 | kirk781 | Mr-Potter, of course. choosing from numerous desktop environments is one of the perks of linux |
| 09:49.06 | Mr-Potter | good to know! |
| 09:49.16 | Mr-Potter | funnily enough the ISO I downloaded was generic |
| 09:49.22 | Mr-Potter | Will it include all the common ones then? |
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| 09:49.29 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Most likely .deb files working on Ubuntu will not work on Debian. |
| 09:49.37 | Mr-Potter | got it thank u |
| 09:50.19 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Ubuntu, just like Debian, has all the DEs in the same repo. Ubuntu just offers those installers which have a certain DE preselected in the installer. |
| 09:51.01 | Mr-Potter | petn-randall: How odd! |
| 09:52.18 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Indeed. I guess it makes it a bit more user-friendly, at the cost of having several installers for essentially the same OS. |
| 09:52.36 | Mr-Potter | yes |
| 09:52.39 | petn-randall | Mr-Potter: Debian just saves a lot of bandwidth and storage costs by offering one installer that can do everything. |
| 09:52.47 | Mr-Potter | yes |
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| 09:56.40 | BCMM | Mr-Potter: i don't know what exact iso you downloaded, but most likely it doesn't "include" a desktop environment. it will, however, automatically download any of them |
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| 09:56.51 | BCMM | (unless it was a really huge iso) |
| 09:56.53 | Mr-Potter | Oh no |
| 09:56.58 | Mr-Potter | It was a DVD size ISO |
| 09:57.26 | Mr-Potter | Which is a catch 22 because it won't work with my WIFI adapter. However I think I'll plug in using a LAN cable. |
| 09:57.38 | Mr-Potter | Out of curiosity, will I be able to install WIFI drivers over LAN? |
| 09:58.26 | BCMM | Mr-Potter: yes |
| 09:58.38 | Mr-Potter | Good |
| 09:58.42 | BCMM | Mr-Potter: actually, in most cases drivers aren't the problem. *firmware* is. |
| 09:58.51 | Mr-Potter | really? |
| 09:59.18 | BCMM | Mr-Potter: debian only includes completely free, open-source, redistributable software by default |
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| 10:00.05 | Mr-Potter | got it |
| 10:00.12 | Mr-Potter | But I can work around that right? |
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| 10:00.27 | BCMM | Mr-Potter: yes. after installation, you will probably need to enable non-free software, and then install firmware-linux-nonfree |
| 10:00.38 | Mr-Potter | got it thanks |
| 10:01.04 | BCMM | i don't know what wireless card you've got so i can't be completely sure this applies to your case, but 90% of the time, when a wireless card doesn't work at installation, that's why |
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| 10:02.29 | BCMM | basically there's firmware that isn't stored in the actual wifi device, but rather has to be "installed" by the OS every time the machine boot up. it exists as a binary file released by the device manufacturer, and the manufacturer has put a somewhat restrictive license on it |
| 10:03.07 | BCMM | and debian won't install stuff with that sort of licencing unless you tell it it's OK to do that |
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| 11:14.51 | JPT | Is it expected behaviour for sysctl value "net.ipv6.conf.enp0s3.accept_ra" (previously set to 2) to be reset to 1 after ifup enp0s3? |
| 11:16.31 | jelly | probably depends on what's in inet enp0s3 ... in /e/n/interfaces |
| 11:16.54 | JPT | Well, nothing special. Both inet and inet6 are configured for dhcp |
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| 11:17.14 | JPT | No custom scripts are involved |
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| 11:19.20 | jelly | JPT: interfaces(5) says accept_ra is set to 1 by default for inet6 dhcp, so "yes" |
| 11:19.53 | jelly | "INET6 ADDRESS FAMILY" section, "The dhcp Method" |
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| 11:21.06 | JPT | That's a bit unexpected, but i guess i'll have to accept it. Thank you for pointing it out. :) |
| 11:21.45 | jelly | you can set it back to 2 there |
| 11:21.55 | JPT | I just put my config into /etc/sysctl.d/ and was wondering why it got reset in unexpected moments. :| |
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| 11:49.11 | wowaname | i used debootstrap to install debian in a chroot, so that i can run programs that require glibc or x86/multiarch without overwriting my main operating system. i mounted my host's /dev to the chroot and modified the audio, video, and input gids so that permissions would map correctly |
| 11:49.36 | wowaname | the problem with this is, on an upgrade of udev, it shows the input group as a 'non-system group' and refuses to properly upgrade |
| 11:50.00 | wowaname | although the new group id for input is still within the system group range |
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| 11:51.59 | Brigo | wowaname, have you ever known about lxc or container in general? |
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| 11:52.44 | wowaname | yes, i use lxc and kvm on my dedicated server |
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| 11:53.00 | wowaname | i havent required that level of containerisation or sandboxing on my home desktop |
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| 11:54.33 | wowaname | and i'd prefer not to have the configuration overhead |
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| 12:03.21 | ksk | then you will have to build your own stuff. use helper scripts to setup these mounts and hook them into apt somehow? |
| 12:03.43 | ksk | like, unmount before an upgrade, mount again afterwards- |
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| 12:04.34 | ksk | I dont know if that is an udev bug, you could look up what that errror actually means and check bugs.debian.org etc |
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| 12:05.23 | ksk | but sure sounds like you want to use containerisation of some scale ;) |
| 12:05.52 | ksk | isn't there something to spawn chroots in systemd already? |
| 12:05.56 | ksk | hides |
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| 12:11.10 | wowaname | >systemd |
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| 12:11.15 | wowaname | ksk: my host system is alpine linux |
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| 12:13.02 | wowaname | to my knowledge udev isnt even running |
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| 12:13.20 | wowaname | ok it looks like i can safely uninstall udev |
| 12:13.23 | wowaname | never mind then |
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| 12:14.23 | ksk | is #debian here :> |
| 12:14.42 | ksk | and you said something about udev errors |
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| 12:15.04 | wowaname | yes, smartassery is appreciated |
| 12:15.14 | wowaname | not even bothering to idle |
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| 12:43.15 | debouncer | noob here, I don't if there is a dev-channel but I want to help to the project in documentations and translations. Where can I find the list of todo tasks? |
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| 12:44.40 | greycat | Most documentation and translation is done upstream, really. |
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| 12:48.28 | debouncer | greycat, what about offical website development? |
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| 12:50.40 | n4dir | there is a mailing list for package maintainers to check for proper english. might be a start |
| 12:50.41 | nicofrand | Hi |
| 12:51.12 | jelly | !l10n |
| 12:51.13 | dpkg | l10n is, like, an abbreviation for localization, which is a long word used a lot in some circles, so it's shortened by effectively saying "L, then 10 more letters, then N", get it? http://wiki.debian.org/L10n http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-$language |
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| 12:51.40 | greycat | Ah. I tried i18n but not l10n. |
| 12:51.41 | jelly | pick your locale/language, debouncer |
| 12:52.05 | jelly | g5t: so sad! |
| 12:52.05 | nicofrand | When trying to install something through apt the interactive thingy fails and aborts automatically: "Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Abort.". I can always pass "-y" but I'd like to fix it. I have no idea where to look for⦠I saw something on stackoverflow regarding stdin but no tip on what to do⦠Could someone help please ? |
| 12:52.21 | greycat | the I18n wiki page is ... incredibly terse |
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| 12:52.56 | jelly | nicofrand: that stuff apt says before that line is kind of important. |
| 12:53.02 | jelly | !basic apt troubleshooting |
| 12:53.02 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 12:53.04 | jelly | nicofrand: ^ |
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| 12:53.55 | nicofrand | jelly the issue is that the "Abort" is done before I have a chance to type either "Y" or "N" actually |
| 12:54.01 | nicofrand | but I can paste the whole result |
| 12:54.29 | nicofrand | https://pastebin.com/L0hbKYFp |
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| 12:57.10 | greycat | nicofrand: what are you NOT telling us? |
| 12:57.54 | greycat | "oh yeah, I forgot to say that this is a docker inside a virtual machine and I'm doing it using ansible over ssh from a chef puppet script and RFC 1149 and ..." |
| 12:58.36 | nicofrand | hmm, not sure what I could say. I am connecting to my server through SSH. I tried rebooting the server |
| 12:58.50 | nicofrand | not in docker, no ansible, no puppet, not in a script |
| 12:59.03 | greycat | This is an *interactive* ssh session, right? You type "ssh root@server" and you get an interactive shell in a terminal, and you are typing commands into this terminal? |
| 12:59.25 | nicofrand | yes it is greycat |
| 12:59.58 | nicofrand | `[[ $- == *i* ]] && echo 'Interactive' || echo 'Not interactive'` displays "Interactive" |
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| 13:03.10 | greycat | I can duplicate your result if I run "sudo apt-get install mc </dev/null" |
| 13:03.41 | greycat | Which makes me suspect that for *some* reason, your apt command's stdin is redirected from /dev/null, or closed, or is being piped from a thing that is generating no output, etc. |
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| 13:05.27 | ayekat | `alias apt-get`, `which apt-get`, ... |
| 13:05.42 | nicofrand | yes I read that but I have no idea how to check why it's redirected and how to fix it |
| 13:05.54 | greycat | "type apt-get" in bash |
| 13:05.57 | nicofrand | ayekat /usr/bin/apt |
| 13:06.00 | greycat | which(1) is useless |
| 13:06.13 | nicofrand | apt is hashed (/usr/bin/apt) |
| 13:07.19 | ayekat | uh... wait - so apt-get is an alias for apt? |
| 13:07.30 | greycat | no |
| 13:07.37 | greycat | apt-get and apt are separate commands |
| 13:07.50 | greycat | nicofrand: what does "ls -l /dev/fd/0" show? |
| 13:07.54 | ayekat | greycat: yes, I know - but nicofrand wrote `/usr/bin/apt` there |
| 13:08.18 | greycat | he typed "type apt" instead of "type apt-get" |
| 13:08.43 | nicofrand | lrwx------ 1 root root 64 Aug 22 15:08 /dev/fd/0 -> /dev/pts/0 |
| 13:08.55 | nicofrand | I use apt indeed. But I have the same issue with apt-get |
| 13:09.05 | greycat | nicofrand: your pastebin showed apt-get |
| 13:09.08 | nicofrand | apt-get is hashed (/usr/bin/apt-get) |
| 13:09.45 | nicofrand | bash: alias: apt-get: not found & same for 'apt' |
| 13:09.45 | nicofrand | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:09.49 | greycat | How about if you exit from this session, and ssh back in? |
| 13:10.21 | greycat | (Yeah, we're down to "turn it off and on" already.) |
| 13:10.24 | nicofrand | ⦠|
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| 13:10.26 | nicofrand | it works |
| 13:10.33 | nicofrand | but I rebooted the server meanwhile |
| 13:10.39 | nicofrand | and the same issue on reboot |
| 13:10.51 | nicofrand | aren't the sessions cleaned on reboot? |
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| 13:11.22 | greycat | I'm running out of ideas here. You've got some kind of trickery going on but I have no idea what it is. |
| 13:11.43 | nicofrand | well, as long as it works for now ð¤·ââï¸ |
| 13:11.58 | nicofrand | thank you very much for the help |
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| 13:19.10 | BCMM | what are the downsides of putting /tmp/ on a tmpfs (other than memory usage obviously) |
| 13:19.59 | babilen | Things might get done faster and you have less time to chill |
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| 13:20.39 | greycat | Might not be able to store a multi-gigabyte temp file in memory. |
| 13:21.06 | greycat | (Do current web browsers still download files into /tmp and then move them into $HOME?) |
| 13:21.23 | BCMM | greycat: iirc, firefox does that if you choose "open" |
| 13:21.24 | greycat | (Because that was *so* freakin' stupid and annoying....) |
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| 13:21.57 | BCMM | if you choose "save", it downloads to a .part file in the directory you're downloading it to |
| 13:22.05 | BCMM | and i think renames it when finished |
| 13:22.12 | greycat | That's what it should always be doing. |
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| 13:22.34 | BCMM | well, if you just click "open" rather than "save", it's understood that you don't want the file to persist |
| 13:23.13 | BCMM | and i personally never do that with anything really large because i'd had to have to redownload it if accidentally close it or whatever |
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| 13:23.25 | BCMM | maybe this would be a problem if i had faster internet |
| 13:24.04 | BCMM | is that the only reason it's not tmpfs by default? or are there other objections? |
| 13:24.21 | greycat | I'd imagine the "machine with limited memory" thing is the main reason. |
| 13:26.17 | jasabella | BCMM⦠privacy? |
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| 13:33.47 | wrksx_ | So I got interested in the IO part of vmstat basic report |
| 13:33.58 | wrksx_ | it's reporting block per second |
| 13:34.09 | greycat | there's a separate iostat command |
| 13:34.24 | wrksx_ | hum that's right I heard of |
| 13:34.28 | wrksx_ | yesterday =) |
| 13:34.34 | greycat | Yeah, jelly mentioned it. |
| 13:34.49 | wrksx_ | but as of right now, I'll just use vmstat reports, if they make sense |
| 13:34.57 | wrksx_ | and they seem to make perfect sense |
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| 13:36.02 | wrksx_ | But the block/sec is kinda confusing and I wanted to convert that to bytes |
| 13:36.16 | wrksx_ | But then I thought, maybe a block doesn't really translate to bytes |
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| 13:36.51 | wrksx_ | so here I am, asking if that make sense |
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| 13:37.18 | greycat | When in doubt, block either means 512 bytes, or something hardware-specific. Usually the former when it comes to old commands like du and vmstat. |
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| 13:38.01 | wrksx_ | greycat, thx for that |
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| 13:38.56 | jelly | wrksx_: don't trust some random greycat on irc. Read the fine vmstat man page. |
| 13:38.58 | wrksx_ | greycat, if vm stat is run every second, and on the 1st sec it says 20 blocks, and the 2nd 10 blocks, does that mean 30 blocks are beein written or is it like the total amount of work in a queue ? |
| 13:39.15 | greycat | The first LINE of output from vmstat is special. See the man page. |
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| 13:39.52 | jelly | it will tell you exactly how many bytes a "block" means in vmstat (and linux kernel, mostly) context |
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| 13:40.09 | hans_ | what is this? deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free |
| 13:40.20 | jelly | hans_: something very, very, very old |
| 13:40.23 | greycat | Hidesouly ancient. |
| 13:40.28 | jelly | 15+ years |
| 13:40.30 | greycat | Bah, typing hard. |
| 13:40.57 | jelly | !non-us |
| 13:40.57 | dpkg | Non-US is where we placed software previously unable to hosted within the USA. Changes in legislation mean that post-<Woody>, there is no non-US, so you don't need it for Sarge, Etch, Lenny, Squeeze, Wheezy or later. Ask me about <crypto> and <crypto in main>. Old non-US packages (for slink, potato, woody) are at archive.debian.org. http://wiki.debian.org/non-US |
| 13:41.15 | greycat | hans_: either this machine is so old that you will not be able to upgrade it, or you're looking at documentation that is so old that you should not read it. |
| 13:41.26 | jelly | it's so old it has a correct factoid |
| 13:41.37 | wrksx_ | lol |
| 13:42.20 | wrksx_ | Damn block size info was in the footnote of the manpage, I didn't make it that far |
| 13:42.25 | wrksx_ | it says 1024 bytes |
| 13:42.29 | jelly | bingo |
| 13:42.41 | mason | Iä! Iä! debian-non-US fthaghn! |
| 13:42.52 | jelly | (same value is used for df and iostat output on Linux by default) |
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| 13:43.06 | wrksx_ | fine |
| 13:43.42 | jelly | more sane OSes will show you actual blocks with similarly-named commands |
| 13:43.43 | mason | s/fthaghn/fhtagn/ |
| 13:44.11 | wrksx_ | I'm goin to add IO to my chart report straight away |
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| 13:44.14 | wrksx_ | ty guys |
| 13:44.16 | jelly | with amusing results for devices with variable block size, like tapes |
| 13:44.38 | wrksx_ | I hope my HDD has constant block size =) |
| 13:44.42 | jelly | iostat on Linux however does not show tapes AT ALL, so they sure dodged that bullet |
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| 13:45.36 | jelly | (as a consequence, it's (near?) impossible to know how much IO passes to and from your tape drives on Linux) |
| 13:45.46 | greycat | I always get the feeling that people report "blocks" so that they don't actually have to figure out what the units mean. They can just be lazy and grab some kind of number from some kind of interface and dump it on the screen and there you are. |
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| 13:46.45 | jelly | and when your HDD and SSD firmware lies about "block" being 512B when it's anything from 4KiB to 4MiB |
| 13:46.47 | wrksx_ | greycat, I'm not that kind of person |
| 13:47.17 | wrksx_ | jelly, should I be woried about that |
| 13:47.19 | wrksx_ | ? |
| 13:48.10 | jelly | no |
| 13:49.04 | jelly | wrksx_: the only thing to remember about my rant is "linux tools will probably show block as 1024B, but do not assume that's true for other unixes" |
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| 13:49.51 | BCMM | jasabella: what's the privacy issue with tmpfs? wouldn't it be the other way around? |
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| 13:50.07 | wrksx_ | jelly, k |
| 13:50.23 | jelly | BCMM: contents of tmpfs can end up written on disk!!!!1!one |
| 13:50.54 | greycat | contents of non-tmpfs /tmp can also end up written on disk |
| 13:50.59 | BCMM | also, what's the correct way to mount /tmp/ on a tmpfs these days? |
| 13:51.05 | jasabella | BCMM⦠i probably misread what you said, but i was thinking everybody can read/write to tmpfs :) |
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| 13:51.32 | jelly | greycat: oh nose |
| 13:51.40 | BCMM | isn't it a proper filesystem with support for unix permission, just like the rootfs /tmp would be on otherwise? |
| 13:51.53 | jelly | it is |
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| 13:52.44 | jelly | most of that is in VFS layer. tmpfs and ramfs just don't have a permanent disk-backend for that data and metadata |
| 13:52.46 | BCMM | as i understand it, /etc/default/tmpfs is ignored on systemd systems. what's the appropriate replacement, though? |
| 13:53.00 | jelly | BCMM: let us know if you find out |
| 13:53.14 | jelly | I still keep a fstab entry for /tmp |
| 13:53.37 | jelly | that's very likely the wrong solution |
| 13:53.46 | BCMM | jelly: yeah, that's the impression i've got... |
| 13:53.54 | BCMM | jelly: both that that's what people do, and that it's somehow wrong |
| 13:54.05 | BCMM | possibly because of stuff getting written to /tmp too early? |
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| 13:54.36 | jelly | maybe ask the upstream channel #systemd and see if they know |
| 13:55.41 | BCMM | am i wrong in thinking that they'll just be annoyed i'm not using a redhat distro? (because that's how systemd itself makes me feel sometimes) |
| 13:56.02 | BCMM | systemctl enable tmp.mount seems to be the correct answer, but a bunch of people claim it doesn't actually work. i guess i should test it in case that's fixed |
| 13:56.31 | jelly | asked |
| 13:56.54 | BCMM | oh "Failed to enable unit: Unit file tmp.mount does not exist" |
| 13:57.16 | mason | BCMM: Can you summarize your goal? |
| 13:57.33 | BCMM | mason: putting /tmp/ on a tmpfs |
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| 13:58.10 | mason | BCMM: Ah. FWIW, it's worth looking at the PrivateTmp option as well. Drops all your mounts into their own namespace, including a distinct per-process /tmp and /var/tmp. |
| 13:58.23 | BCMM | what's the point in that? |
| 13:58.44 | mason | BCMM: Saves lazy programmers from having to understand "mktemp" is what I take from it. |
| 13:59.01 | BCMM | i mean, isn't the point of /tmp/ communication between processes? |
| 13:59.07 | greycat | absolutely not |
| 13:59.11 | mason | But it's theoretically more obscure/secure since no one else can see what temp files you're creating. |
| 13:59.25 | BCMM | greycat: what's the correct way for a browser to implement an "open in external pdf reader" feature? |
| 13:59.34 | mason | And yeah, /tmp is for per-process, sometimes per-user scratch files. |
| 13:59.57 | mason | ssh abuses it a bit with its sockets living there. |
| 14:00.06 | greycat | BCMM: good question, definitely out of scope for #debian. You'll probably ask 5 programmers and get 11 different answers. |
| 14:00.41 | mason | BCMM: dbus! fork and exec! just exec! |
| 14:00.44 | BCMM | well, one can argue about the correct use of it, but the fact remains that it's very much within conventional use of it |
| 14:01.09 | greycat | "conventional" doesn't score a lot of points when it comes to temp files |
| 14:01.48 | BCMM | well i suppose my ultimate goal is to not pointlessly write temporary audio files to my ssd while encoding this music, and i could just manually configure a different temporary directory for this single purpose instead of addressing the whole of /tmp/ |
| 14:02.13 | BCMM | which brings me to, what should i use if i explicitly want to store a temporary file in RAM? (and /tmp/ is not in ram) |
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| 14:02.55 | BCMM | is it wrong to just use /dev/shm for that? |
| 14:02.59 | greycat | If an fstab entry for /tmp => tmpfs works for you, then that sounds like a good enough answer. |
| 14:04.26 | mason | BCMM: If it has to stay in RAM, why have it touch a file at all? |
| 14:04.29 | BCMM | greycat: well that's the fallback solution certainly. but debian used to do it earlier than fstab, and systemd appears to be configured to do the same on other distros. i don't know what the reasoning behind that is, but i assume there is one |
| 14:04.40 | BCMM | mason: i'm configuring a program, not writing it... |
| 14:04.44 | mason | ah |
| 14:04.53 | wrksx_ | When VM stat reports 80 MB/s of IO writing to disk, it's actually writing to RAM cache? |
| 14:05.21 | apollo13 | depends |
| 14:05.31 | apollo13 | it could be writing directly to |
| 14:07.39 | wrksx_ | seems really high to me but I don't know typical performance of hdds |
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| 14:08.43 | jelly | so. |
| 14:08.57 | greycat | I would not expect vmstat to report raw hardware I/O values, in general. It's designed to report memory usage, not disk usage. |
| 14:09.49 | wrksx_ | aright |
| 14:09.54 | jelly | this is what /var/lib/dpkg/info/systemd.postinst does: it creates a unit definition in /etc/systemd but ONLY if RAMTMP is enabled in old, legacy /etc/default/rcS file. So /etc/default/rcS is used one last time. |
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| 14:10.29 | jelly | so /etc/default/rcS is a boot-time config for sysvinit, but an install-time config for systemd |
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| 14:10.51 | jelly | which is probably better than not trying to migrate at all |
| 14:11.01 | greycat | Looks like it performs one-time migrations on several of the values form rcS. |
| 14:11.30 | wrksx_ | Regarding CPU data reported by VM stat, |
| 14:11.40 | wrksx_ | (sorry for the lineends) |
| 14:11.49 | greycat | And ... there's the tmp.mount unit file, in /usr/share/systemd, waiting for you to copy it to /etc/systemd/system/ yourself, I guess. |
| 14:12.01 | wrksx_ | it says it's "time spent". But what unit of time is that ? |
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| 14:12.31 | mason | or systemctl edit tmp.mount maybe? |
| 14:12.39 | jelly | wrksx_: percentage of total cpu time across all cores |
| 14:12.41 | RoyK | wrksx_: try using sysstat and perhaps munin - preferably both - they'll show you good and understandable data |
| 14:12.47 | greycat | mason: you have to copy it into a place where systemctl can see it, first |
| 14:13.02 | mason | greycat: ah, ah, kk |
| 14:13.19 | RoyK | sysstat is a commandline tool, but there are fine tools for graphing the data |
| 14:13.40 | jelly | wrksx_: user + system + idle + iowait cannot exceed 100 |
| 14:13.58 | jelly | I have no idea what's the "st: Time stolen from a virtual machine. Prior to Linux 2.6.11, unknown." column |
| 14:14.01 | wrksx_ | hum |
| 14:14.33 | RoyK | jelly: "steal" is the amount of time the host "steals" from the vm if the host is under load and can't give the vm all the cpu it wants |
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| 14:15.10 | jelly | but VM is running under host anyway so it ought to be accounted anyway? |
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| 14:15.50 | jelly | and how the hell does it deal with different, third party hypervisor crap that is not kvm |
| 14:16.21 | wrksx_ | r b swpd free buff cache si so bi bo in cs us sy id wa |
| 14:16.21 | wrksx_ | 1 0 402112 489880 214564 61125364 0 0 40064 0 1922 3222 11 0 89 1741638803 |
| 14:16.28 | jelly | ignore the first line |
| 14:16.31 | RoyK | jelly: from sar(1): %steal: Percentage of time spent in involuntary wait by the virtual CPU or CPUs while the hypervisor was servicing another virtual processor. |
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| 14:16.32 | wrksx_ | Found this line in my log |
| 14:16.46 | jelly | wrksx_: it's crap |
| 14:16.50 | wrksx_ | with a wait percentage of 1741638803 |
| 14:16.50 | jelly | that happens. |
| 14:16.58 | wrksx_ | ha right |
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| 14:17.23 | RoyK | wrksx_: just install sysstat and munin and wait a while for them to build up some statistics |
| 14:17.34 | jelly | reading from /proc is not always correct |
| 14:17.43 | wrksx_ | RoyK, ty I'll look into it |
| 14:18.00 | jelly | sometimes the emulated file contents change under userspace' feet |
| 14:18.02 | wrksx_ | RoyK, I already had 24 hours of vmstat data I wanted to check |
| 14:18.04 | RoyK | wrksx_: interactive stuff like vmstat or iostat are nice, but usually you want statistics over time |
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| 14:18.21 | wrksx_ | RoyK, exactly |
| 14:18.41 | RoyK | installing those two is an apt install away |
| 14:18.43 | jelly | wrksx_: honestly I've done better adhoc stats with vmstat/iostat and awk than with sar |
| 14:18.53 | jelly | ymmv |
| 14:18.57 | wrksx_ | sar , |
| 14:18.59 | wrksx_ | , |
| 14:19.00 | wrksx_ | ? |
| 14:19.11 | bites | is there a nagios plugin packaged for debian that can check the psu status? |
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| 14:19.20 | RoyK | jelly: sar/sysstat works well - I've used it for about two decades |
| 14:19.39 | jelly | wrksx_: sar is the thing from sysstat that runs forever and keeps statistics in a well-known format |
| 14:19.40 | RoyK | bites: quite possibly, depending on your hardware |
| 14:19.48 | wrksx_ | alright |
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| 14:20.24 | RoyK | jelly: and sar/sysstat doesn't produce worse dat than vmstat/iostat - they read from the same source |
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| 14:39.22 | telmich | good evening |
| 14:39.33 | telmich | is there vxlan support planned for interfaces? |
| 14:39.55 | telmich | I can set them up manually, but I'd like to setup some vxlan devices on bootup with debian |
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| 14:47.40 | mason | That person has had time to learn their lesson. |
| 14:49.23 | hans_ | where is the actual list of boot options for grub? the update-grub generates |
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| 14:49.48 | greycat | It generates the file /boot/grub/grub.cfg |
| 14:50.00 | hans_ | thanks |
| 14:50.02 | greycat | It uses the templates/scripts in /etc/grub.d/ to do so. |
| 14:50.40 | greycat | (and the options in /etc/default/grub like it says in the comment) |
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| 14:53.01 | mvaenskae | where can one find documentation on the internals of the debian installer? i for one tried to install debian concurrently with a gentoo install (using lvm on luks) but had to call some internal magic commands from the command line to have access to lvm and luks (seems to have been loaded and extracted from some archive into ramdisk) |
| 14:53.13 | greycat | !debootstrap |
| 14:53.14 | dpkg | debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap |
| 14:54.15 | mvaenskae | i recall using the official installer for that task and just skipped the ones i did manually |
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| 14:54.21 | optraz | how to upgrade iceweasel/firefox ? currently still using versoin 52.9.0 |
| 14:54.39 | mvaenskae | i think something with `anna` was in the name of the command (been some time) |
| 14:54.46 | greycat | optraz: That is the current firefox-esr in stretch. |
| 14:55.31 | jelly | optraz: 60esr will probably happen soon |
| 14:55.48 | jelly | and break 70% of old extensions |
| 14:56.11 | optraz | hmm |
| 14:56.20 | optraz | because some site complaint version 52 too old |
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| 14:56.43 | greycat | I find the ctrl-w key to be effective for those cases. |
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| 14:57.24 | petn-randall | optraz: Sounds like the site is broken and needs fixing. Or avoiding. |
| 14:57.30 | optraz | lol |
| 14:57.31 | optraz | banking site |
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| 14:58.00 | greycat | so, you're paying them for this? |
| 14:58.13 | optraz | nope |
| 14:58.24 | greycat | it's someone else's bank account? |
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| 14:58.41 | optraz | heh nope |
| 14:58.53 | optraz | sid has version 61 |
| 14:58.55 | petn-randall | optraz: So you are paying them for this. |
| 14:58.58 | optraz | https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=sid&keywords=firefox |
| 14:59.08 | greycat | Then you gave them your money and you're allowing them to hold on to it and earn interest off of it, and for this service, they repay you with a broken web site that you can't use. |
| 14:59.14 | petn-randall | optraz: That's irrelevant though, since sid and stable are two different suites. |
| 14:59.33 | optraz | ok |
| 14:59.47 | optraz | u can try here |
| 14:59.49 | optraz | https://ambank.amonline.com.my/ |
| 14:59.55 | optraz | ⢠Mozilla Firefox Version 54 and above |
| 14:59.56 | optraz | lol |
| 15:00.22 | greycat | It appears to be working in google-chrome, but of course I have no login for it. |
| 15:00.28 | optraz | when will firefox 61 get into testing or stretch release? |
| 15:00.40 | optraz | greycat: yes, but i love firefox :) |
| 15:00.42 | greycat | We don't care about testing here. |
| 15:01.01 | mvaenskae | greycat: ah, found the command again, anna-install; what does this command relate to in the debian-installer context and how do i know what arguments it takes? |
| 15:01.08 | greycat | It will never be in stretch, because it's not an ESR release. Firefox-ESR 60 will be in stretch probably in a few weeks. |
| 15:01.20 | optraz | ohh |
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| 15:01.24 | optraz | coooool |
| 15:01.31 | petn-randall | optraz: Some time this month Firefox ESR 52 will reach end of life, and will be replaced by ESR 60. |
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| 15:01.34 | optraz | few weeks as in 2009 perhaps :D |
| 15:01.46 | optraz | aha ok! |
| 15:01.47 | greycat | No, as in early September 2018. |
| 15:01.54 | optraz | good to know |
| 15:01.55 | optraz | thank you |
| 15:01.58 | optraz | u r awesome! |
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| 15:02.42 | optraz | where u see the schedule for firefox esr 60 ? |
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| 15:04.27 | optraz | gtg, thanks again :) |
| 15:04.47 | hans_ | does FormData work in ESR 52? |
| 15:05.24 | hans_ | does this work? `fd=new FormData();` |
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| 15:06.24 | greycat | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Release_Management/Calendar shows upstream's info; I don't know of a Debian mozilla team equivalent. |
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| 15:08.17 | Delta706 | Is there a way to configure debian such that a crash produces a core file whose name includes the process number of the terminated process? |
| 15:08.25 | greycat | there's a pretty picture version on https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/ if you scroll down a bit |
| 15:08.45 | greycat | "September 5 2018" is where ESR 52.x dies. |
| 15:09.14 | mvaenskae | how long are ESRs supported? |
| 15:09.58 | greycat | according to the same pretty picture, ESR 60 dies on "October 23 2019" |
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| 15:10.37 | mvaenskae | so a little over... 1.5 years? |
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| 15:30.26 | indigoblu | anybody have an example of how to disable a postinstall using pybuild? Im trying to backport a package that has some python3 code in in and the pycompile postinstall falls flat on its face. |
| 15:31.36 | jelly | mvaenskae: that's a lot better than the 10 months of life they initially gave to each LTS release |
| 15:31.50 | jelly | er. ESR release. |
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| 15:32.44 | themill | indigoblu: pycompile shouldn't be seeing python3 code; which package is this ooi? |
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| 15:33.38 | indigoblu | themill: python-engineio attemping to backport to stretch. |
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| 15:36.05 | themill | indigoblu: that backports and installs just fine. Are you making changes to the packaging too? |
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| 15:39.07 | indigoblu | themill: upstream (debian) only has a dist for python3. This is a personal backport for python2 usage. |
| 15:40.12 | greycat | so it's NOT a backport, then? |
| 15:40.51 | indigoblu | i guess not :-) sorry, learning terminology. |
| 15:41.30 | greycat | A backport is when you take the deb-src (Debian source package) from unstable or testing and build it on stable using stable's libs and so on. |
| 15:41.54 | themill | indigoblu: Ahh, I'd say that's not going to work. There looks to be a lot of python3 code in there |
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| 15:42.58 | themill | (even if it does use six) |
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| 15:44.07 | themill | indigoblu: there seem to be some guards in the package that change what gets imported depending on the version. You might get a working package if you make sure the py3-only files don't land in the py2 package. |
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| 15:44.49 | indigoblu | themill: understood. this is a wierd package and portions are needed for python-socketio. Unit tests do pass on python2. |
| 15:46.02 | indigoblu | themill: just new to Debian packaging and trying to modify stock debhelper postinst behavior. |
| 15:46.08 | themill | you could delete the py3-only files out of debian/tmp/python-engineio/usr/⦠from within d/rules. |
| 15:46.24 | themill | nope, you'll need to fix the package contents, not the postinst |
| 15:48.51 | themill | err debian/python-engineio/usr/⦠|
| 15:48.59 | indigoblu | themill: okay, thanks. Ill try that. |
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| 15:51.21 | themill | indigoblu: brutalising package contents for fun and for profit: https://sources.debian.org/src/sasmodels/0.97~git20180309-1/debian/rules/#L47 |
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| 15:59.22 | BCMM | i'm looking for how to enable /tmp/ on tmpfs, and found /usr/share/systemd/tmp.mount. can anybody explain what /usr/share/systemd/ is for? it doesn't appear that systemd actually looks for unit files in that directory. |
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| 16:00.29 | greycat | Correct. It's just a place where stuff from upstream is stashed. |
| 16:00.47 | greycat | Do what the systemd.postinst does -- copy it out of there into /etc/systemd/system/ and then enable it. |
| 16:00.56 | BCMM | greycat: thanks |
| 16:01.47 | BCMM | greycat: what do you mean about postinst? does the systemd package put all built-in unit files in to /usr/share and then move a set of pre-defined defaults to /etc? |
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| 16:02.26 | greycat | Didn't you see jelly's comment earlier? The systemd.postinst script looks to see if /tmp-on-tmpfs was enabled in the old legacy rcS file, and if so, it copies the unit into /etc/systemd/system/ and then enables it. |
| 16:02.41 | greycat | If not, you are just left with the unit sitting in this directory that nobody looks in. |
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| 16:03.22 | greycat | I don't know why it isn't simply installed in /lib/systemd/system/ and then conditionally enabled or disabled. It must have seemed like a good idea at the time. |
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| 16:08.42 | BCMM | greycat: oh thanks, no i didn't see that |
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| 16:17.11 | simbalion | I need to get php 5.5 installed on Debian Stretch, how can I do that? |
| 16:18.23 | JustASlacker | use docker ^_^ |
| 16:18.54 | simbalion | nvm got it working |
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| 16:19.59 | jelly | :-D |
| 16:20.04 | jelly | !win simbalion |
| 16:20.04 | dpkg | Congratulations, simbalion! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120! |
| 16:20.53 | annadane | (less or more than a slackware installation?) |
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| 16:21.38 | JustASlacker | nah, slackware comes on a dual-side dvd these days ^_^ |
| 16:21.45 | annadane | *these* days |
| 16:22.07 | JustASlacker | so, roughly 8000 floppies |
| 16:22.54 | jehorn | Slackware was one of the first distros I tried, back in 1996 lol. |
| 16:22.56 | annadane | and it's recommended to install everything so it's not like debian where you can just put in DVD 1 of 14 |
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| 16:33.07 | bertbob | slackware didn't really work well, either. when I switched to buzz and it all just worked I was so happy |
| 16:33.14 | thyr15t0r | good morning |
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| 16:34.07 | thyr15t0r | how to fix acpi problem on asus? |
| 16:34.33 | annadane | what problem? if you just get "ACPI error" on startup it's probably fine to ignore it |
| 16:35.10 | petn-randall | thyr15t0r: How does the problem show? What do you expect, what happens instead? |
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| 16:36.39 | thyr15t0r | i can't change screen brightness on my notebook. it sets at maximum allways |
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| 16:39.15 | thyr15t0r | i see [brightness chage} icon then i press Fn+F5/F6 buttons. but screen light not changes |
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| 16:41.01 | thyr15t0r | debian 9.3 |
| 16:41.09 | thyr15t0r | with latest core |
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| 16:42.24 | annadane | well firstly we're on 9.5 |
| 16:42.35 | annadane | not sure how to solve your problem but consider updates |
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| 16:42.56 | jelly | thyr15t0r: what does "uname -a" say? |
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| 16:44.40 | jelly | if it's really an acpi issue it will likely only be solver thru kernel upgrades, and reported non-security bugs do sometimes get fixed in newer versions of kernel on stable |
| 16:45.31 | annadane | or try the kernel from backports i guess |
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| 16:46.22 | thyr15t0r | thnx i will do it |
| 16:47.01 | annadane | (FIRST update to 9.5, don't immediately try using the backported kernel...) |
| 16:47.12 | annadane | only if 9.5 doesn't solve the problem |
| 16:47.37 | annadane | and it involves a kernel update so make sure to reboot |
| 16:47.52 | diogenes_ | thyr15t0r, you could try this: xrandr | grep " connected" | cut -f1 -d " " |
| 16:48.02 | diogenes_ | then |
| 16:48.12 | diogenes_ | xrandr --output <output from first command> --brightness 0.7 |
| 16:48.13 | RoyK | thyr15t0r: does it work on an older kernel? |
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| 16:48.43 | thyr15t0r | <diogenes_>i will try that. but nit niw |
| 16:49.00 | thyr15t0r | not now* |
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| 17:14.46 | BestSteve | q |
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| 17:24.16 | ntz | hello |
| 17:24.26 | indigoblu | themill: thank you! perfect example. that work. |
| 17:25.20 | ntz | LOL: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=774701 ... you've handled my report after 3+ years :D .. congrats .. This is brilliant proof that nobody sane (with basic knowledge of linux ecosystem) should use debian :) |
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| 17:28.22 | jelly | ntz: eh, it's still better than the alternatives, even given the thousands of unfixed bugs |
| 17:28.34 | petn-randall | ntz: Just because you won't something, it doesn't mean you get it? AFAICS it's only a wishlist bug. |
| 17:29.09 | ntz | I know (and I had them also) many security related bugs that were completely ignored for months and years |
| 17:29.09 | jelly | it probably should be higher prio than a wishlist, but that doesn't matter |
| 17:29.21 | petn-randall | ntz: And someone *replied* to it after 3 years. It was fixed some time in between. |
| 17:29.46 | ntz | approx reaction time on any bug (the most of them) with debian is weeks if you're lucky independently in the content of report |
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| 17:29.53 | jelly | ntz: I think I have decade-old open bugs |
| 17:30.00 | ntz | yeah |
| 17:30.12 | jelly | and I honestly prefer they be left open than closed WONTFIX |
| 17:30.22 | ntz | anyhow ... guys, live in peace .. I came to troll a bit, I did it and now I feel like hero |
| 17:30.36 | ntz | and not need to troll or upset ppl here anymore |
| 17:30.36 | indigoblu | all distributions have bugs. Even RH/Fedora have big breakers over 3-5 years old. |
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| 17:30.55 | ntz | bye !!!! |
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| 17:31.02 | petn-randall | slaps ntz with a Gentoo CD. |
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| 17:35.36 | jelly | I can troll, too |
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| 17:40.22 | jolt | :D |
| 17:42.34 | greycat | jelly troll? isn't that an old jazz musician... |
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| 17:48.18 | jhutchins_wk | MTR for bugs I've opened with RedHat is ~2 years. |
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| 17:48.31 | jhutchins_wk | I did have one they hustled out in under a year. |
| 17:51.41 | jelly | and that bug is still present in stretch afaict |
| 17:52.21 | Butt3rfly | bugs jelly |
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| 18:16.47 | mxbd | mutiny! |
| 18:21.25 | greycat | Harumph. There's no pirate-cow for cowsay mootiny. At least not on my system. |
| 18:21.56 | greycat | Clearly a grave bug at the very least. |
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| 18:57.12 | jelly | ah, so it's not just 32bit firefox-esr 52.9 that leaks |
| 18:57.15 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:58.06 | jelly | that's Debian's firefox-esr:amd64 from stretch. It just doesn't die after getting to the 3GiB userspace limit |
| 18:58.33 | jelly | goes back to 52.8 to confirm |
| 18:58.39 | greycat | A web browser? Leak? Gasp. |
| 18:59.07 | jelly | it's both debian's and mozilla's builds of 52.9 that bloat a lot more than previous 52esr did |
| 18:59.27 | jelly | I had to restart it 3-4 times today at work, so like every 2 hours |
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| 19:00.47 | jelly | that reminds me of the times when I had a desktop launcher icon to run: sh -c "pkill -9 firefox; sleep 1; exec /opt/firefox/firefox" |
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| 19:30.39 | jelly | is there a way to apply Acquire::Check-Valid-Until=false only for one specific repo? |
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| 19:45.49 | violentE | I'm having an issue updating or for that matter doing anything with apt. It shows an error with linux-image-4.9.0.8-amd64. And Ive tried all the usual stuff and I can't get it to work. Here is a bpaste of the error and what I've already done: https://bpaste.net/show/359e9f58c194 |
| 19:47.22 | greycat | 's'got something to do with disk encryption, so I'm not helpful |
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| 19:51.09 | violentE | oh of course - I put in my boot key and it worked |
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| 19:56.38 | violentE | okay now the only problem I was halfway into remove *-7-amd64 (because I thought itd be a problem) I'm following the first answer on here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/263363/how-can-i-remove-old-kernels-install-new-ones-when-boot-is-full. So I already did: rm *-7-amd64 but when I got through with the rest of the instructions they of course say that I'm running -7-amd64. What should I do. I care neither if they are deleted or kept I just don't |
| 19:56.38 | violentE | want something broken |
| 19:57.18 | greycat | *Is* your /boot full? Is that why you're following this URL instead of just deleting the package? |
| 19:57.46 | violentE | well I thought it was thats why I started the process |
| 19:57.54 | greycat | Type "df" and find out. |
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| 19:58.23 | violentE | no its at 1% |
| 19:58.55 | greycat | Then just purge the package instead of doing all kinds of crazy things. |
| 19:59.02 | greycat | "dpkg --purge linux-image-whatever" |
| 19:59.20 | violentE | but it says I'm running -7-amd right now thats why I'm scared to purge it |
| 19:59.38 | greycat | Well then, reboot into the -8- kernel to make sure it works, and then purge it. Or leave them both installed. |
| 20:00.00 | violentE | right |
| 20:00.02 | violentE | okay thanks |
| 20:00.07 | greycat | Sounds like you're not low on disk space, so there's no urgency. |
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| 20:02.22 | jhutchins_wk | Arbitrarily deleting files from /boot sounds like a great way to b0rk a system. |
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| 20:06.09 | jelly | esp. files for the current running kernel, or the one you're trying to install |
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| 20:15.36 | jhutchins_wk | The kernel should be in RAM though, so you can get away with that until you reboot. You're not updating grub though, confusion abounds. |
| 20:17.09 | jelly | I meant from a recovery perspective, getting rid of the last kernel you know booted is not the greatest idea ever |
| 20:18.25 | jhutchins_wk | Quite true. |
| 20:18.41 | greycat | I generally keep two kernels. |
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| 20:38.18 | violentE | okay it didn't work, I can start and get to a login screen but my keyboard doesn't work. Also the only kernel there was was -6 there was not -7 (which I deleted part of) or -8 |
| 20:38.28 | violentE | I don't know what to do, I'm not very good with grub |
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| 20:52.07 | Kailen | violentE: which keyboard do you have? the main problem is that your keyboard doesn't work? |
| 20:55.32 | violentE | no it isn't the keyboard. I was originally having trouble updating to -8-amd64 kernel image, when (I thought) I got it to work I rebooted but now I doesn't work and the main reason is for two reasons: #1 I deleted /boot/*-7-amd64 (there were like 3 files) and thats what I was previously using. #2 The only option available is -6-amd64. I can see -8-amd64 image in grub as well as in rescue mode - dpkg --list | grep linux-image but I can't boot from |
| 20:55.32 | violentE | it and idk how to fix this. |
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| 20:58.21 | greycat | you said, "I rebooted but now I doesn't work" -- what doesn't work? What's the actual problem? |
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| 20:58.56 | violentE | well as it appears the keyboard and mouse doesn't work |
| 20:59.04 | violentE | but I know its more than that |
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| 20:59.48 | greycat | Mouse? Sounds like a display manager is involved, and possibly the new kernel needs to have some dkms driver rebuilt for it. |
| 20:59.54 | netcrash | Hello, any idea on a good way to have central user authentication for windows and Linux boxes having a linux server? What could I use? |
| 21:00.28 | violentE | but I can only boot on -6 not -8 |
| 21:00.44 | jelly | netcrash: do you already have AD? |
| 21:00.45 | jhutchins_wk | violentE: maybe boot to a live/rescue image, chroot, and apti install a whole kernel? |
| 21:01.14 | jhutchins_wk | netcrash: samba+winbind |
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| 21:02.20 | jhutchins_wk | Setting up a samba server as PDC is a bit tricky with W10, but it still supposedly works. |
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| 21:02.41 | violentE | idk if thats going to work jhutchins_wk, I have a boot key |
| 21:02.46 | jelly | netcrash: I'd avoid setups of samba and winbind, go with sssd instead, and either sssd_ad if you're willing to join linux hosts into AD and MS Kerberos, or sssd_ldap if you're not |
| 21:03.07 | netcrash | sssd_ldap :) |
| 21:03.20 | netcrash | going to look into this |
| 21:03.24 | jelly | nod |
| 21:03.43 | violentE | I feel like the solution is simple: boot from -8. I just don't know how to go about doing that from grub |
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| 21:04.47 | greycat | Unless you did something bizarre, it should be booting -8- by default, since that's the newest kernel you had installed at the last time grub.cfg was regenerated. |
| 21:05.08 | greycat | In any case, you should be able to use the Down Arrow key when the grub menu comes up, and select things. |
| 21:05.19 | greycat | Down & Up arrows, and Enter. |
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| 21:07.20 | jelly | netcrash: works on debian 8+, or debian 7 with backported sssd bits (except libpam-sss because the one from wheezy-backports is broken, so just use the one from wheezy) |
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| 21:09.02 | netcrash | jelly, thank you |
| 21:09.08 | netcrash | jhutchins_wk, thank you |
| 21:09.21 | jelly | and with slapd as reverse proxy for AD if you're paranoid enough not to let misc linux machines poke your AD ldap ports directly |
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| 21:11.47 | violentE | okay, so I went to mount debian -8 from a live cd and I don't have the thing mounted but in the files I have initrd -8 but not vmlinuz -8 or config -8 |
| 21:11.47 | netcrash | will start with something simple on a test , and will see from their |
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| 21:13.22 | spinningcat | sound is weird when i connect headphone with bluetooth |
| 21:14.07 | anoob | I cannot find my bluetooth device (speaker) when pairing |
| 21:15.25 | jelly | violentE: reinstall the linux-image-blahlblah package that has missing /boot/vmlinuz-* |
| 21:15.31 | jelly | ,kernels |
| 21:15.43 | michael2 | I have a program that keeps opening vim.tiny - becuase /usr/bin/sensible-editor keeps choosing vim.tiny - is there some way to reconfigure /usr/bin/sensible-editor? or can I just rm it? |
| 21:15.50 | jelly | judd... where are you |
| 21:16.04 | michael2 | I want a normal vim - not vim.tiny |
| 21:16.59 | jelly | michael2: install the "vim" package |
| 21:16.59 | RoyK | michael2: update-alternatives --set editor /usr/bin/vim.basic |
| 21:17.12 | RoyK | and yes, install vim first, obviously |
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| 21:17.56 | michael2 | RoyK: yes vim is installed. BTW did you watch seventh seal? |
| 21:17.56 | jelly | its editor alternative ought to have higher priority |
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| 21:18.36 | michael2 | I thought update-alternatives only reconfigured the synlink at /usr/bin/editor? |
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| 21:19.13 | jelly | michael2: do you perhaps have a ~/.selected_editor already for that user? |
| 21:19.33 | RoyK | michael2: why? |
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| 21:19.40 | jelly | (I'm just looking at the /usr/bin/sensible-editor script) |
| 21:20.18 | RoyK | export EDITOR=vim |
| 21:20.23 | RoyK | should work as well |
| 21:20.25 | jelly | "because you look like Death" |
| 21:20.28 | jelly | hides |
| 21:20.56 | jelly | yeah well, setting VISUAL or EDITOR is an obvious override |
| 21:21.29 | jelly | (sensible-editor obeys both) |
| 21:21.42 | RoyK | lifts his scythe and looks in jelly's direction |
| 21:22.01 | michael2 | RoyK: I thought you downloaded it to watch? |
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| 21:23.42 | RoyK | I thought I'd seen it, but seems I was thinking of something else - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050976/ - this old swedish one? |
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| 21:24.05 | jelly | that's the one |
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| 21:24.31 | michael2 | RoyK: I cant check link - I dont have browser installed, but yeah its like 1957ish swediash movie |
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| 21:24.36 | RoyK | I don't think I've seen it, no - probably something to add on the list - I usually like Swedish films |
| 21:25.05 | michael2 | well update-alternatives --config editor doesnt work |
| 21:25.07 | RoyK | I'm quite fluent in the language too, which helps a bit |
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| 21:25.55 | michael2 | it says it only affects the synlink at /usr/bin/editor |
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| 21:26.11 | RoyK | well, it does just that |
| 21:26.43 | RoyK | but some software don't give a shit about tht and just opens nano or some other crap just because they think they know things better than you |
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| 21:27.13 | michael2 | this program (ranger) is opening /usr/bin/sensible-editor |
| 21:27.22 | michael2 | I have no idea why |
| 21:27.38 | RoyK | insensible-editor, perhaps |
| 21:27.46 | Brigo | maybe that's the debian default |
| 21:28.10 | jelly | waits for the answer about existence of $HOME/.selected_editor file |
| 21:29.13 | michael2 | jelly: ~/.selected_editor exists |
| 21:29.33 | michael2 | contents are: |
| 21:29.48 | michael2 | SELECTED_EDITOR=vim.tiny |
| 21:29.53 | jelly | well then |
| 21:29.54 | RoyK | ah |
| 21:30.01 | RoyK | move it away |
| 21:30.04 | RoyK | or just remove it |
| 21:30.19 | jelly | or s/.tiny// |
| 21:30.34 | michael2 | so update-alternatives doesn't change ~/.selected_editor right? |
| 21:30.36 | RoyK | jelly: shouldn't be needed to add it there |
| 21:31.07 | jelly | but it would prevent sensible-editor from asking and writing it down again |
| 21:31.11 | RoyK | michael2: that file is user configurable - update-alternatives is global - userconfig takes precense |
| 21:32.34 | michael2 | right that makes sense |
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| 21:32.58 | michael2 | so what is the "debian way" of editing that file? can I just edit it directly? |
| 21:33.01 | usney | which is better a bluetooth keyboard or a wireless keyboard with a doggie? |
| 21:33.13 | jelly | michael2: just remove it |
| 21:33.22 | jelly | or edit it directly, sure |
| 21:33.22 | RoyK | michael2: something like "rm filename" should do ;) |
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| 21:33.31 | jelly | with ANY editor |
| 21:33.36 | michael2 | how did it get there in the first place? |
| 21:33.54 | jelly | sensible-editor creates it if there's no previous choice it can find |
| 21:33.58 | RoyK | jelly: sure? https://xkcd.com/378/ |
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| 21:34.40 | jelly | see how less /usr/bin/sensible-editor ... runs "select-editor" at some point |
| 21:36.06 | jelly | http://paste.debian.net/1038935/ |
| 21:36.32 | jelly | however one has to note, that on unix, |
| 21:36.38 | jelly | ED IS THE STANDARD EDITOR |
| 21:37.12 | Brigo | jelly, that can't be true! :( |
| 21:37.12 | RoyK | will probably move away from vim once the existence of hell is proved, and it has frozen over |
| 21:37.48 | jelly | https://everything2.com/title/Ed+is+the+Standard+Editor |
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| 21:38.24 | RoyK | jelly: the xkcd above describes this quite graphically |
| 21:38.39 | joeazot | Hello |
| 21:39.02 | RoyK | joeazot: evening |
| 21:39.54 | jelly | I am prevented from seeing any xkcd link in this and other nearby channels by a powerful mental filter, sorry |
| 21:40.53 | RoyK | sounds like a rather annoying filter to me |
| 21:40.56 | joeazot | what wm do you guys use? In my linux VM (windows pleb, cbf switching yet even though i spend 95% of my time in my linux vm) i use i3-gaps. |
| 21:41.11 | jelly | whatever xfce has by default, right now |
| 21:41.44 | RoyK | xfwm |
| 21:41.48 | jelly | RoyK: it saves a lot of time |
| 21:42.46 | Brigo | mate here :) |
| 21:43.24 | jelly | but usually whatever kde uses by default, except kde session broke the other day |
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| 21:44.11 | joeazot | honestly after using i3 i cant go back to anything else |
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| 22:02.49 | esaym153 | how do I use irc.debian.org? I've identified and registered (a couple of years ago) but for the last few months all I get is "#debian Cannot join channel (Need to be identified and verified to join this channel, msg NickServ to learn how to register and verify" |
| 22:03.00 | esaym153 | so "identified and verified"? How do I verify? |
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| 22:04.56 | jelly | esaym153: just identify for a start, and see if NickServ sees your connection as id'd |
| 22:05.01 | RoyK | esaym153: register your nick in nickserv and identify with it |
| 22:05.15 | esaym153 | jelly: I've done that, years ago. I identify fine |
| 22:05.28 | RoyK | esaym153: this wasn't required earlier, but freenode had a rather bad spam attack, so most channels require it now |
| 22:05.38 | jelly | esaym153: it has to be done on each connection |
| 22:06.02 | RoyK | you just register your nick once and then just "identify" with nickserv later |
| 22:06.12 | RoyK | most irc clients have this built in |
| 22:06.14 | jelly | and the esaym153 on oftc right now is NOT identified with OFTC NickServ |
| 22:06.15 | esaym153 | jelly: connection? I'm not talking about freenode |
| 22:06.21 | jelly | me neither |
| 22:06.27 | esaym153 | hm |
| 22:07.26 | RoyK | esaym153: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration <-- first hit on google |
| 22:07.29 | jelly | er, not, you seem online now |
| 22:07.37 | jelly | RoyK: they're asking about OFTC, not freenode |
| 22:07.56 | jelly | they're id'd on freenode else would not be able to ask in here |
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| 22:09.07 | esaym153 | jelly: I see, doing 'nickserv info' shows verified: no. But yet when I identify, the server spits back: NickServ(services@services.oftc.net)- You are successfully identified as esaym153 |
| 22:09.19 | RoyK | jelly: the difference between OFTC and Freenode is barely noticable |
| 22:09.45 | jelly | RoyK: well, OFTC is all caps acronym and freenode is all lowercase |
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| 22:10.06 | RoyK | looks at jelly |
| 22:10.36 | jelly | esaym153: I have no clue how one verifies. There's a "/msg NickServ checkverify" command there fwiw |
| 22:10.46 | jelly | esaym153: ask in #oftc I guess |
| 22:11.14 | jelly | RoyK: also, OFTC has a #debian with no active jelly |
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| 22:11.34 | jelly | if a jelly is talkative it's probably not OFTC |
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| 22:13.44 | jelly | esaym153: "/msg NickServ help register" has clues: -NickServ- To complete the registration, the nickname must be VERIFIED. To verify your nick, go to https://services.oftc.net/, log in with your NickServ password, and follow the instructions there. |
| 22:14.43 | esaym153 | jelly: ah, brilliant |
| 22:15.07 | jelly | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
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| 22:16.40 | esaym153 | jelly: it worked, sweet lol |
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| 22:17.02 | jelly | !win esaym153 |
| 22:17.02 | dpkg | Congratulations, esaym153! You have won a lifetime supply of spam! |
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| 22:22.13 | sadsagfjg | if i command apt-get install xchat in root (su) i face this error : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4PX2DTTRz8/ |
| 22:22.41 | jelly | sadsagfjg: yeah, use hexchat |
| 22:22.48 | jelly | ,v xchat |
| 22:23.04 | sadsagfjg | why? I cant download? |
| 22:23.27 | sadsagfjg | xchat |
| 22:23.34 | jelly | it's not in Debian 9 |
| 22:23.44 | sadsagfjg | :( |
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| 22:23.54 | jelly | hexchat fork is better maintained anyway |
| 22:23.57 | RoyK | ,v irssi |
| 22:24.18 | sadsagfjg | ok, now i download hexchat |
| 22:24.19 | RoyK | I prefer irssi - some like weechat |
| 22:24.37 | jelly | however you can't just copy the config from xchat as-is if you already have xchat configured to your liking |
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| 22:24.54 | RoyK | both run in a terminal, which is nice if you hve screen or tmux session running - just connect when you want to chat |
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| 22:25.44 | jelly | phew |
| 22:25.53 | jelly | ,v xchat |
| 22:25.54 | judd | Package: xchat on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.8.8-7.1; wheezy-security: 2.8.8-7.1+deb7u1; jessie: 2.8.8-7.3; stretch-backports: 2.8.8-15~bpo9+1; buster: 2.8.8-15; sid: 2.8.8-15 |
| 22:25.57 | sadsagfjg | ok, I didnt config my xchat |
| 22:26.21 | jelly | you're better off with hexchat then, many things were fixed (and some new bugs added) |
| 22:26.45 | sadsagfjg | jelly: ok, Thanks |
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| 22:28.46 | Brigo | sadsagfjg, yes i am using hexchat just now and still alive :) |
| 22:30.13 | sadsagfjg | Brigo: Nice :) |
| 22:32.06 | sadsagfjg | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:32.30 | jelly | chainging the "real name" won't affect visibility of IP addreess |
| 22:33.42 | sadsagfjg | So How i can unvisible this item? jelly |
| 22:34.05 | jelly | you can ask network staff in #freenode for an unaffiliated cloak, this puts a symbolic name over your IP address but any OPs in the channel you're present in can still figure out the IP if they really want to |
| 22:34.57 | jelly | #freenode staff can at their own discretion delay issuing a cloak to really new accounts (like, created 15 minutes ago) |
| 22:35.36 | jelly | on OFTC (irc.debian.org), you can get a cloak automatically from the NickServ bot I think |
| 22:36.53 | jelly | but in general you should not rely on that for security purposes. If you want to hide your source IP address, use Tor and connect to freenode's tor hidden service |
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| 22:52.43 | g0zzy | Can grub-install (and os-prober) cope with probing OSs on both installed hard drives? |
| 22:53.34 | jelly | os-prober is relevant, and yes, as long as all the drives have correct entries in /boot/grub/device.map |
| 22:54.02 | g0zzy | I'll look thanks |
| 22:59.55 | g0zzy | Hmm. I hope i haven't done anything rash. I have a second drive (usually not) at the mo and what i'd like to do is boot either hard drive from a boot menu in a permanently inserted nano usb stick |
| 23:00.48 | g0zzy | I've just tried grub-install to that usb stick with both hard drives in |
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| 23:07.57 | g0zzy | is going to try some booting experiments |
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