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| 00:27.26 | jim | hi. question... I was told by http://mozilla.debian.net/ that most versions of firefox are gone because rust is not available as a build dependency in stretch... is this still true? |
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| 00:35.29 | LaScoumoune | hi all; how can i check with systemd, if dependency is up, run the service, but if not no run ? |
| 00:35.55 | LaScoumoune | because the systemd run at boot i dont know why because requierd is not up |
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| 00:38.25 | rant | in the unit file you specify these things |
| 00:39.10 | LaScoumoune | https://paste.gnome.org/pomiolkyh |
| 00:39.13 | rant | man systemd.unit and read about dependencies |
| 00:39.20 | LaScoumoune | i have read |
| 00:39.46 | LaScoumoune | i dont know why the service run at boot, because sys-subsystem-net-devices-wlpX.device is not UP |
| 00:40.32 | LaScoumoune | is it an interfaces static, i use ifup ifdown, no networking |
| 00:40.54 | rant | "If this unit gets activated, the units listed here will be activated as well. If one of the other units fails to activate, and an ordering dependency After= on the failing unit is set, this unit will not be started. Besides, with or without specifying After=, this unit will be stopped if one of the other units is explicitly stopped." |
| 00:40.59 | rant | https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html#Requires= |
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| 00:43.33 | LaScoumoune | so i do use Wants= ? |
| 00:43.46 | LaScoumoune | or just delet After= |
| 00:44.45 | rant | idk I am not fully understanding what you're doing and I'm not real savvy with systemd, sounded to me like you wanted a Requires |
| 00:45.02 | LaScoumoune | yea |
| 00:45.47 | rant | requires means if the deps arent available that unit file is stopped |
| 00:45.53 | rant | afaik |
| 00:46.33 | LaScoumoune | that it the service need interfaces is up for run vpn |
| 00:47.03 | LaScoumoune | but actualy if interface is down that try to tun the service |
| 00:47.11 | LaScoumoune | that why i dont understand requires= |
| 00:51.40 | rant | shrugs |
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| 00:52.11 | LaScoumoune | back |
| 00:52.35 | LaScoumoune | ahah i think that more complicated |
| 00:52.53 | LaScoumoune | because sys-subsystem-net-devices-wlpX.device loaded inactive dead he service dont see dead |
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| 00:54.06 | LaScoumoune | but that work for one shot |
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| 01:07.39 | ryouma | i have 2 sets of redundant sources in apt sources.list. this worked well, and the documentation seemed to say that it would failover from teh first set to the second set. i got an error on the first set, however, "Err tor+http://sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion jessie/updates/contrib amd64 Packages Can't complete SOCKS5 connection to 0.0.0.0:0. (4)", and update did not failover. shouldn't it? |
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| 01:19.06 | rant | o.O |
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| 01:21.35 | rant | update downloads the release info and packages files to update your local cache.. it does not failover whatever that means.. it gets what it can, errs on what it cant.. and cache is built from whatever it got |
| 01:21.52 | rant | I can't imagine wtf you're using tor for apt |
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| 01:27.53 | KaffeeKatrin | Hello, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helps with Debian for making it awesome enough to survive me breaking it and being possible to fix afterwards |
| 01:28.23 | KaffeeKatrin | Because if I try that on any other OS it doesn't work and I have to reinstall |
| 01:28.57 | KaffeeKatrin | I love Debian and it runs every machine I own, except for my MacBook, but that's because of lazyness |
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| 01:29.58 | Something1 | KaffeeKatrin, you are so kind! <3 |
| 01:30.53 | KaffeeKatrin | oh wait, that's not entirely true |
| 01:31.07 | KaffeeKatrin | I need to install Debian on my Nintento Switch and my Phone now |
| 01:31.29 | KaffeeKatrin | and maybe my refrigiator and toaster, idk if they have any firmware |
| 01:31.30 | Something1 | Your phone might be possible next year with the librem phone! |
| 01:31.48 | KaffeeKatrin | If I just go for a chroot it's possible today |
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| 01:32.28 | KaffeeKatrin | Actually, with libhyris I could build a working android image for my phone |
| 01:32.35 | KaffeeKatrin | I mean |
| 01:32.47 | KaffeeKatrin | *a working image for my android phone |
| 01:33.45 | Something1 | That sounds pretty awesome! |
| 01:34.10 | KaffeeKatrin | yeah, I'd just need to write all of the hardware adaption code |
| 01:34.55 | KaffeeKatrin | and some build scripts to make a working rootfs to flash |
| 01:35.16 | KaffeeKatrin | and then I'd brick my phone, because that's what I'm good at |
| 01:36.20 | KaffeeKatrin | I bricked my mobo when I flashed my own coreboot onto it in 2014 so I expect the same outcome for this |
| 01:37.18 | Something1 | Yikes! Did you try again another time? |
| 01:37.36 | KaffeeKatrin | well yes, and the fans spun up |
| 01:37.50 | KaffeeKatrin | But I didn't have the tools for serial console |
| 01:37.59 | KaffeeKatrin | And then I dumped the project |
| 01:38.17 | KaffeeKatrin | should still be somewhere in the history of coreboot |
| 01:38.45 | KaffeeKatrin | When I last looked someone else had ported coreboot to this specific mobo |
| 01:39.10 | KaffeeKatrin | I didn't bother to look into how well it worked thou |
| 01:42.55 | Something1 | I´m looking at their website. And looks like my old laptop is on there, but it´s not exactly an easy process. |
| 01:43.32 | KaffeeKatrin | I worked on the ASUS M2N32SLI deluxe |
| 01:43.36 | KaffeeKatrin | wifi edition* |
| 01:43.57 | KaffeeKatrin | iirc it needed a different branch than the none wifi one |
| 01:44.02 | KaffeeKatrin | but I'm not sure |
| 01:46.27 | KaffeeKatrin | the board is still sitting in my rack, I could revive the project if I wanted to |
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| 01:54.38 | nyov | KaffeeKatrin: debian on the fridge :D yeaha |
| 01:54.49 | nyov | i already have it on my android phone ;) |
| 01:55.22 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: wait, when did I say I had it on my fridge? |
| 01:55.28 | nyov | nono |
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| 01:55.57 | KaffeeKatrin | I should, but I cannot find an interface to connect any installation media too |
| 01:55.57 | nyov | but I saw one with a friggin screen in it not long ago |
| 01:56.13 | KaffeeKatrin | it's a dumb fridge |
| 01:56.21 | nyov | that's my thought |
| 01:56.25 | KaffeeKatrin | It doesn't even have ethernet |
| 01:56.48 | KaffeeKatrin | I guess I'm due for an update on that one too |
| 01:57.58 | KaffeeKatrin | my next fridge should have a built in coffee machine that supports rfc2324 |
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| 01:58.40 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov_: your bar is showing |
| 01:59.12 | KaffeeKatrin | much better ;) |
| 02:00.24 | nyov | lol |
| 02:00.51 | nyov | yeah, so I was fooling around with the idea to port sailfish to my android |
| 02:01.05 | nyov | but then my android cpu is too old |
| 02:01.29 | nyov | but debian works on it :) |
| 02:02.33 | nyov | because debian has an armel port |
| 02:02.45 | nyov | I so love debian :D |
| 02:03.58 | nyov | now I got a more modern phone donated with an armhf cpu, so I could possibly try again. except this phone isn't really worth the work |
| 02:06.13 | nyov | but I wish Mer would be using debian as base. like good old memo did? I'm sad they ever switched to rpm |
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| 02:06.33 | nyov | *maemo even |
| 02:07.43 | KaffeeKatrin | Yeah |
| 02:07.47 | KaffeeKatrin | I loved my N900 |
| 02:08.03 | KaffeeKatrin | I loved Maemo |
| 02:08.19 | nyov | that was the best. and my p990 before that |
| 02:08.48 | nyov | those flat-brick form-factors today don't do it for me :( and not a hardware keyboard in sight |
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| 02:10.31 | nyov | I mean really. if I want a tablet, i go buy a tablet. these sizes are getting so ridiculous you can't even fit them in a pocket anymore :O |
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| 02:12.26 | jim | , v rust |
| 02:12.27 | judd | No package named 'rust' was found in amd64. |
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| 02:31.54 | ryouma | let me reword. i am trying to put intentional redundancy (my word is "failover") in sources.,list. why would i do such a thing? because i like the idea of more availabiility and because researchers recommend it. https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/stork/packagemanagersecurity/attacks-on-package-managers.html#protectingyourself says using two mirrors is an "intelligent choice for a client whose distribution signs reposi |
| 02:31.54 | ryouma | tory metadata". it is an interesting security paper. yet apt-get update does not seem to failover? shouldn't it if you have 2 of the same repo at different urls and the first one errors? |
| 02:33.09 | ryouma | i.e. i have the debian main repo with 2 entries in sources.list, one with one address and transport protocol and the other with a different address and transport protocol. all constructive comments are appreciated. |
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| 02:34.57 | themill | ryouma: failover can work for downloading packages, it doesn't work for downloading metadata. How can apt know that these two resources are duplicates? |
| 02:35.33 | ryouma | themill: so it should work for upgrade but not update? |
| 02:36.38 | KaffeeKatrin | ryouma: no |
| 02:37.11 | nyov | so... the essentials here are, attackers can give me outdated lists of packages... hmmm |
| 02:37.37 | themill | nyov: Valid-Until is a thing |
| 02:37.40 | nyov | ok. i can live with that |
| 02:37.44 | ryouma | nyov: yeah basically |
| 02:37.55 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: try protecting yourself against more known threats is what I'd say |
| 02:38.01 | nyov | indeed |
| 02:38.11 | KaffeeKatrin | and check sigs pls |
| 02:38.25 | nyov | you mean, manually? i trust apt to do that |
| 02:38.27 | KaffeeKatrin | cause that's the number one give away for a mitm |
| 02:38.52 | ryouma | themill: i don't understand enough to know why it would not work for update. KaffeeKatrin you seem to contradict themill |
| 02:38.53 | themill | ryouma: I'm not sure how well apt will cope with the failover if it picks that mirror to download from; multiple mirrors is a way of preventing one mirror from feeding you stale data, because apt will try a different one |
| 02:38.55 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: idk how, I just administrate systems that don't really matter for anyone but me |
| 02:39.12 | themill | ryouma: how would it work for update is a better question |
| 02:39.40 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: apt just fetches the package lists from the urls in your config afaik |
| 02:39.56 | KaffeeKatrin | but I could be dead wrong and it does account for mirrors somehow |
| 02:40.03 | nyov | KaffeeKatrin: I wasn't clear maybe, but I consider this a non-issue |
| 02:40.06 | KaffeeKatrin | but then it would account for both functions and not just one |
| 02:40.23 | nyov | I can understand people wanting to use https source-urls, to hide their package installs |
| 02:40.29 | nyov | I don't understand using tor |
| 02:40.32 | ryouma | nyov: that too |
| 02:40.43 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: https is broken in so many ways |
| 02:40.45 | ryouma | nyov: because https transport is buggy in jessie |
| 02:40.53 | nyov | ok |
| 02:41.04 | KaffeeKatrin | ryouma: nice, we said basically the same thing this time |
| 02:41.09 | ryouma | hehe |
| 02:41.11 | KaffeeKatrin | That means I'm right, right? |
| 02:41.47 | ryouma | the other one works great though |
| 02:41.57 | ryouma | errors today though |
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| 02:42.36 | ryouma | i think it is buggy (to clarify) because servers do not implement it |
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| 02:42.47 | ryouma | or at least that is one reason |
| 02:43.11 | KaffeeKatrin | well |
| 02:43.30 | KaffeeKatrin | tbh it doesn't matter anyways unless you're using dnsec to secure you from other kinds of attacks |
| 02:43.46 | nyov | nah, that's the wrong approach |
| 02:43.59 | KaffeeKatrin | Always deal with the stuff that's easiest to attack first |
| 02:44.03 | nyov | every bit helps. though I don't see how https is more secure here |
| 02:44.23 | nyov | if the signing works. |
| 02:44.52 | ryouma | some people just do not want their isp to know what packages they are dling too. they don't have to supply a reason. |
| 02:44.56 | nyov | though a second layer, the onion principle, is sound |
| 02:45.22 | ryouma | in the ussr they'd have had to supply a reason i guess |
| 02:45.27 | KaffeeKatrin | ryouma: it's usually not really the ISP they're concerned about |
| 02:45.39 | nyov | ryouma: for that I have a partial mirror. downloading so much, they can't possibly use it to pin any specific package on me |
| 02:45.54 | nyov | also helps with update-speed for all my VMs |
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| 02:46.27 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: sounds like a major drag to maintain |
| 02:47.41 | nyov | it was |
| 02:47.49 | nyov | now it runs itself :) |
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| 02:48.04 | KaffeeKatrin | Sounds like you wrote scripts |
| 02:48.17 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: and they were written in either bash or perl |
| 02:48.39 | KaffeeKatrin | Don't ask me how I know, I'm a medium ;) |
| 02:50.02 | themill | Your ISP can trivially work out what packages you are downloading over HTTPS if they really want to. |
| 02:50.03 | nyov | i do write scripts, in bash |
| 02:50.12 | nyov | themill: DPI? |
| 02:50.27 | nyov | deep packet inspection |
| 02:50.34 | themill | nope, just look at the size of the download |
| 02:50.38 | nyov | ok |
| 02:50.51 | themill | hence 'trivial'! |
| 02:50.58 | nyov | is it not reusing the same connection? |
| 02:51.11 | nyov | for multiple files |
| 02:51.28 | nyov | actually i'll fire up wireshark to check right now |
| 02:51.36 | nyov | only need to find a https mirror |
| 02:51.38 | nyov | hm |
| 02:51.43 | themill | deb.d.o |
| 02:52.01 | themill | apt does have pipeline settings, you often only download a single package from the security mirror though |
| 02:52.44 | nyov | true |
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| 03:00.18 | nyov | interestingly, https://deb.debian.org/debian downloads from https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian |
| 03:00.42 | nyov | hahaha. why would I bother to hide the traffic from my local ISP |
| 03:01.01 | nyov | when whoever cares so much can go directly to ask amazon |
| 03:01.13 | nyov | ...assuming they're a US entity ofcourse |
| 03:01.52 | nyov | I should have read the sponsored message |
| 03:01.55 | nyov | my bad |
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| 03:11.45 | nyov | I suppose that's why people would choose Tor, then. |
| 03:12.14 | nyov | anyway. I tried looking at the traffic, but I can't see patterns in it. *g* |
| 03:12.30 | ryouma | so we' |
| 03:12.43 | nyov | might be me being too bad at that. and the environment is bad. too much traffic going around |
| 03:12.57 | nyov | for lil' me wireshark to analyze |
| 03:13.25 | ryouma | re back to the question. as it's failing today (thought worked well forever before) i thought perhaps it would retry on the next server. |
| 03:13.49 | nyov | and it does not? |
| 03:13.58 | nyov | it skips the second server for the same suite? |
| 03:15.02 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: I can see patterns |
| 03:15.08 | nyov | KaffeeKatrin: okay? |
| 03:15.19 | KaffeeKatrin | when I take lots of illegal substances atleast |
| 03:15.26 | nyov | hahaha |
| 03:15.28 | KaffeeKatrin | so it's probably not useful |
| 03:15.50 | nyov | well if that's the *only* time you see patterns, I'd worry |
| 03:15.51 | ryouma | nyov: yes it just errors and stops |
| 03:15.56 | ryouma | or seems to |
| 03:16.04 | ryouma | what is suite? |
| 03:16.06 | KaffeeKatrin | nyov: anyways, you won't see patterns in wireshark |
| 03:16.07 | KaffeeKatrin | like |
| 03:16.17 | KaffeeKatrin | unless you write somethign to analyze package size |
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| 03:16.32 | KaffeeKatrin | You will get different packages every time |
| 03:16.39 | KaffeeKatrin | cause it's encrypted |
| 03:16.51 | KaffeeKatrin | but the size is what gives away what you dl in the end |
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| 03:17.16 | ryouma | actually let me confirm -- it is possible that it is erroring, thus not upgrading because i use &&, but actually dls all of the metadata |
| 03:17.29 | ryouma | (that it does not error on) |
| 03:17.49 | ryouma | in which case the bug is that the error code does not distinguish between erroring on one and erroring on all |
| 03:18.04 | ryouma | (for the same thing) |
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| 03:22.56 | KaffeeKatrin | ryouma: suite = distribution version probably |
| 03:23.01 | KaffeeKatrin | stretch jessie etc |
| 03:23.20 | ryouma | is there an apt-get status command? kinda like git status? |
| 03:23.36 | nyov | for what output? |
| 03:23.48 | nyov | I mean, what output do expect from it? |
| 03:24.01 | ryouma | KaffeeKatrin: ah ok. in any case yes the whole point here is to have the same everything twice, except for transport protocol and url. |
| 03:24.35 | ryouma | nyov: i think my hypothesis is correct. but i want to see if any packages can be downloaded. |
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| 03:24.50 | ryouma | i guess i could do a dry run upgrade |
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| 03:39.38 | nyov | ryouma: I tried to test this but, sadly I can't get apt to hiccup (: |
| 03:40.53 | nyov | Have two x3 lines for stretch in the list. first 3 lines on one server, one for main, contrib, non-free each |
| 03:41.29 | nyov | and the second 3 are a copy of the first with another country-code for a different server |
| 03:42.14 | nyov | then I banned either one in /etc/hosts, and apt uses the other one in both cases |
| 03:42.31 | nyov | oh and it fetched metadata from both |
| 03:42.53 | nyov | I didn't try tor transport, though |
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| 03:53.09 | ryouma | nyov: that one is the one that is errroting |
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| 04:08.32 | jim | , v rustc |
| 04:08.33 | judd | Package: rustc on amd64 -- stretch: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1~deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1~deb9u4; buster: 1.28.0+dfsg1-2; sid: 1.28.0+dfsg1-3 |
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| 04:09.32 | jim | hmmm... any idea why that's not suitable for building firefox? |
| 04:10.53 | nyov | you tell us ;) |
| 04:11.20 | jim | ok, let me explain... |
| 04:12.25 | nyov | ryouma: I just tested another one, and it did failover |
| 04:13.42 | nyov | so I installed varnish and set the backend to a http mirror, then redirected the ftp.nl.debian.org domain to localhost to go through that |
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| 04:14.07 | nyov | in etc/hosts. and a second one I left normal |
| 04:14.34 | nyov | so when it picked my mirror, i killed varnish and it complained, and switched over to the other mirror to continue the download |
| 04:14.42 | jim | there was a site, http://mozilla.debian.net/ which used to provide later copies of firefos for people who need the updated browser (and yes, this is a real need), but a lot of the availability got cleared out of that site, with the explanation that rust was needed to build the newer firefoxes. |
| 04:15.10 | nyov | I remember it, I still run iceweasel ;) |
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| 04:15.37 | jim | wow :) and you can hit all the sites you need to? |
| 04:16.12 | nyov | well. github complains, but shuts up once I faked a current firefox UA ~ version 60 |
| 04:16.16 | nyov | others do too |
| 04:16.53 | jim | oh ok |
| 04:16.58 | nyov | but I usually don't hit the most modern sites, and I usually surf without JS whenever possible |
| 04:17.13 | nyov | github works perfectly though after the UA fake |
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| 04:17.27 | jim | yeah, js can be annoying |
| 04:17.39 | nyov | only issue you need to care about is security ofcouse |
| 04:17.43 | nyov | *course |
| 04:17.51 | nyov | so run the browser sandboxed then :D |
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| 04:19.09 | nyov | I wouldn't recommend to do that in general. (sticking with that old shit) But I can't stand the newer FF at all |
| 04:19.52 | nyov | and palemoon isn't much better if you look at the team |
| 04:20.09 | jim | what version of debian has the rust-compled firefixes? it could turn out I need that |
| 04:20.12 | nyov | I mean security-bugfixing-wise |
| 04:20.37 | jim | firefoxes that is |
| 04:20.52 | nyov | the what? |
| 04:21.31 | nyov | the rusting firefoxes? :D |
| 04:21.49 | jim | as I explained (and as you may know) the mozilla people went to rust to xompile their stuff |
| 04:22.01 | nyov | the way they burn through version numbers, one could say they're rusting pretty fast ;) |
| 04:22.08 | jim | so they ported firefox to rust |
| 04:22.35 | nyov | yes. but what do you mean by "rust-compled firefixes" |
| 04:22.50 | jim | that was a typo |
| 04:22.56 | jim | typi? |
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| 04:26.41 | jim | and to be specific, I meant the newer firefox that uses rustc to compile it |
| 04:28.11 | nyov | ah. well I don't know when they started using rust in the compile pipeline |
| 04:28.38 | nyov | so I can't say which deb package will be the earlist to have it |
| 04:28.48 | nyov | (if that was your question) |
| 04:28.49 | jim | well let's see... |
| 04:28.57 | jim | , v firefox |
| 04:28.58 | judd | Package: firefox on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.0-1~bpo80+1; sid: 62.0-1 |
| 04:29.13 | nyov | none in testing? |
| 04:29.14 | nyov | lol |
| 04:29.41 | jim | looks like we're still waiting |
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| 04:33.09 | jim | ok, good to know... |
| 04:34.40 | nyov | How can I get a statusbar notification in my terminal windows; some kind of visual bell signal? |
| 04:34.58 | nyov | I asked the awesome people (: because that's my WM, but they're asleep |
| 04:36.05 | nyov | I know this is possible, because my programs sometimes do it - the statusbar gets red if it's unfocused, but I dunno HOW |
| 04:36.31 | nyov | and xkbbell or beep do not seem to be doing it - it must be some other kind of signal |
| 04:39.21 | nyov | I know this statusbar hilighting happens on some kind of "attention" signal - e.g. the kernel sending some message to the tty (ERR level or higher) triggers it |
| 04:40.09 | nyov | or a mesg from some client (wall/write) |
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| 04:53.56 | prasket | today my debian install tells me that 'rfkill' was automatically installed and no longer needed. How do I find out what that is from, or when it was installed? |
| 04:54.14 | nyov | why does dpkg not find a package for /usr/bin/write |
| 04:54.25 | nyov | judd: file /usr/bin/write |
| 04:54.29 | judd | No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 04:55.00 | nyov | prasket: you can look it up in aptitude |
| 04:55.22 | nyov | judd: depends rfkill |
| 04:55.23 | judd | Package rfkill in stretch/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.4). |
| 04:55.38 | nyov | oh wait, the other way around. |
| 04:55.47 | nyov | wwell you know what i mean :D |
| 04:56.50 | nyov | aptitude will show you which packages depend on rfkill, and perhaps you can find out which one you had that depended on it |
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| 04:57.21 | nyov | prasket: you won't be able to find out *when* it was installed, unless you have some kind of logging for that done by yourself |
| 04:57.23 | prasket | so typing 'depends rfkill' will show that? |
| 04:57.34 | prasket | ahh OK |
| 04:57.35 | nyov | no, aptitude is a gui. |
| 04:57.51 | nyov | currently not sure how to do it in apt/dpkg |
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| 04:58.15 | prasket | oh let me check for that |
| 04:58.57 | nyov | well, it's not many. aircrack, eepc, tlp |
| 04:59.10 | nyov | i guess you had aircrack :p |
| 04:59.13 | prasket | have to install i |
| 04:59.16 | nyov | or one of the recommends |
| 04:59.26 | nyov | wicd-daemon maybe? |
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| 05:00.37 | prasket | nope never installed aircrack |
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| 05:01.16 | nyov | I'd pastebin the aptitude screen, but Idk how to copy a curses screen |
| 05:01.57 | prasket | aptitude is installing now |
| 05:02.07 | prasket | I am trying out i3 so it probably wasnt installed by default |
| 05:02.25 | nyov | a word of warning though, aptitude key binds take a bit of learning |
| 05:05.01 | nyov | (and I wish there was a keybind short for 'cancel all pending actions') |
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| 05:05.45 | jim | well aptitude -has- a ur, actually several uis... but you can also use it like apt or apt-get |
| 05:05.53 | nyov | prasket: anyway, if you think you messed up in aptitude, dont just quit |
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| 05:06.01 | prasket | @nyov my word you are not kidding about keybinds in it haha |
| 05:06.03 | nyov | but instead hit Ctrl-t + e |
| 05:06.12 | nyov | to 'undo all' |
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| 05:06.37 | nyov | the 'q' gets you out, or a level back to top |
| 05:06.40 | nyov | *then |
| 05:06.51 | prasket | nice, thank you I just needed that ha |
| 05:07.04 | nyov | jim: how do you list reverse dependencies? |
| 05:07.25 | nyov | say, all packages that recommend, depend, or suggest rfkill ? |
| 05:08.00 | nyov | because i only know how to find those in the UI |
| 05:08.48 | nyov | judd: file /usr/bin/bsd-write |
| 05:08.52 | judd | Search for /usr/bin/bsd-write in stretch/amd64: bsdmainutils: usr/bin/bsd-write |
| 05:08.56 | nyov | ahaha *found* you |
| 05:09.23 | nyov | always forgetting the diversions |
| 05:11.17 | aloo_shu | oh, nifty things judd can do |
| 05:13.21 | nyov | well usually it's faster doing `dpkg -S file`, but I thought my local install was bad for not finding a packagename to it |
| 05:13.34 | nyov | and yes. nifty judd ;) |
| 05:13.48 | nyov | http://ircbots.debian.net/judd/ |
| 05:15.11 | prasket | Oh interesting about judd |
| 05:15.40 | prasket | Thanks for tips about not really being able to know when installed but how to see depends. |
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| 05:16.34 | nyov | if you have know-how of git or mercurial, and install `etckeeper`, it will also log when you installed what or when |
| 05:16.45 | nyov | besides versioning your /etc contents |
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| 05:17.06 | nyov | so that'd be a way to look up a date in `git log` then |
| 05:22.35 | nyov | Can anyone tell me by this code, how bsd-write / talk etc. manage to light up my terminal when a message is received? https://sources.debian.org/src/bsdmainutils/11.1.2/usr.bin/write/write.c/ |
| 05:23.35 | nyov | can't find any hints :( or maybe I need to check on the receiving end... what software handles pty messaging. terminal emulator? |
| 05:25.50 | nyov | ahhhh fd = openat(devfd, tty, O_WRONLY); |
| 05:25.57 | nyov | getting closer |
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| 05:53.29 | fr0xk | Why debian is using path /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/ instead of upstream /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/? Any historical reason? |
| 05:56.05 | fr0xk | maaf(apology), I now discovered that polkit reads file from both of those locations |
| 06:03.37 | hexhaxtron | I can't start Apache... http://paste.debian.net/1042384/ |
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| 06:04.36 | nyov | port is in use. kill it first |
| 06:05.12 | hexhaxtron | nyov, I'm doing lsof -iTCP:80 |
| 06:05.23 | hexhaxtron | nyov, nginx 9421 root 7u IPv4 2118187796 0t0 TCP *:http (LISTEN) |
| 06:05.28 | nyov | or you have no right to bind, wrong user |
| 06:05.37 | hexhaxtron | But this PID is always changing... I can't kill it. |
| 06:06.12 | jim | hexhaxtron, when ther are problems come up with a web app running on apache (or as you've just seen, with apache itself), the apache error log is normally very helpful |
| 06:07.21 | hexhaxtron | nyov, jim how can I kill this? |
| 06:08.05 | jim | did you say this is apache? or nginx? |
| 06:08.19 | nyov | hexhaxtron: kill `lsof -iTCP:80 | awk '{ print $2 }' | head -n2 | tail -1` |
| 06:08.24 | hexhaxtron | It's Apache but there is nginx running on it. |
| 06:08.49 | jim | are you trying to kill nginx which is running on the port, to start up apache instead? |
| 06:09.01 | hexhaxtron | jim, exactly! |
| 06:09.02 | nyov | well, service stop nginx |
| 06:09.19 | hexhaxtron | nyov, it didn't work. |
| 06:09.30 | nyov | an it's a runaway process? |
| 06:09.34 | hexhaxtron | Yes. |
| 06:09.35 | nyov | respawning |
| 06:09.37 | hexhaxtron | Yes. |
| 06:09.45 | nyov | who's the Parent pid, if any |
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| 06:09.53 | hexhaxtron | I don't know. |
| 06:09.55 | nyov | killall -9 nginx |
| 06:10.09 | jim | come on now :) you know that's the least useful phrase you can tell us... "it doesn't work" :) |
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| 06:10.16 | hexhaxtron | nyov, didn't work. |
| 06:10.31 | hexhaxtron | jim, if I do: lsof -iTCP:80 |
| 06:10.33 | nyov | did it say "nginx: no process found" or not? |
| 06:10.34 | jim | gotta say what it's doing instead |
| 06:10.34 | hexhaxtron | jim, it's still there. |
| 06:10.51 | hexhaxtron | nginx 13923 root 7u IPv4 2118437637 0t0 TCP *:http (LISTEN) |
| 06:10.54 | jim | so it didn't print anything? |
| 06:11.38 | nyov | well that should have done it... as root |
| 06:11.57 | nyov | maybe *killall -s KILL nginx* |
| 06:12.36 | hexhaxtron | nyov, I can still see nginx in lsof. |
| 06:13.52 | jim | hexhaxtron, the information you're getting from us right now is key when you have conversations with folks who want to help you... "it doesn't work" should probably be avoided, and instead you should say things like "well that didn't do it, but when I tried it, it printed this/these messages" or something like that :) |
| 06:14.02 | nyov | < nyov> did it say "nginx: no process found" or not? |
| 06:14.38 | hexhaxtron | nyov, killall -s KILL nginx shows no output. |
| 06:14.45 | nyov | ok. |
| 06:14.53 | nyov | so it tries, but is too slow |
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| 06:15.22 | nyov | and sadly it is owned by root. not an "nginx" user |
| 06:15.28 | nyov | or we could kill by user |
| 06:15.45 | nyov | hm |
| 06:15.59 | jim | that's interesting actually... and unusual |
| 06:16.11 | nyov | very runaway |
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| 06:17.16 | nyov | I wonder if it might have a parent process? unlikely but |
| 06:17.28 | jim | if worst comes to worst, you might have to disable the nginx service, and reboot (this is an -extreme- action) |
| 06:18.14 | jim | if the box is doing other stuff for other people, shouldn't do it |
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| 06:20.25 | ws2k3 | i had a failed raid controller. which has been replaced. is there a tool i can use to extensively test the disk? just massive random read and white |
| 06:20.44 | nyov | hexhaxtron: paste the output of this?: ps axo stat,euid,ruid,tty,pgrp,ppid,pid,comm | grep nginx |
| 06:21.05 | hexhaxtron | nyov, I got it! |
| 06:21.11 | hexhaxtron | I killed the parent process. |
| 06:21.18 | hexhaxtron | Thanks! :) |
| 06:21.30 | nyov | what parent was this? |
| 06:21.51 | nyov | curious what would spawn childs like that |
| 06:22.12 | nyov | unless you're out of disk or something... |
| 06:24.44 | nyov | oh yeah. so actually OF COURSE it had a parent. can't respawn itself and init wouldn't have respawned it. doh. me |
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| 06:27.12 | golazo_41_26 | Hello, It's Tuna from Turkey. I'm new at Debian Installation and working on embedded systems. I'm trying to setup a Debian 9* to my target but during Loading additional components phase, my device(whole system) stuck and I couldn't complete installation. I'd like to look at setup traces to understand the reason of it |
| 06:27.25 | golazo_41_26 | Is there any way to collect traces, during first debian setup phase |
| 06:28.37 | nyov | what do mean with first setup phase. a d-i installer run? |
| 06:28.49 | golazo_41_26 | I'm booting from usb stick |
| 06:29.06 | golazo_41_26 | and installing debian to target |
| 06:29.09 | nyov | ok, so not talking about installation process, but boot,? |
| 06:29.51 | golazo_41_26 | yes I'm booting it but than, installing image from usb stick to target |
| 06:29.58 | golazo_41_26 | I don't have any problem on booting phase |
| 06:30.02 | nyov | why don't you debootstrap the embedded arch instead |
| 06:30.16 | nyov | and then copy it to be run on the embedded target |
| 06:31.05 | golazo_41_26 | I though that the way will be easier than debootstrap and copy |
| 06:31.24 | nyov | ok. well if the box has enough ressources, sure |
| 06:31.24 | golazo_41_26 | to be honestly, I hadn't do that before so I have a learning curve about it |
| 06:31.53 | golazo_41_26 | yes my embedded target has 2GB Ram and 2 core cpu |
| 06:32.11 | golazo_41_26 | I can run win10 on it without any problem |
| 06:32.11 | nyov | what do you use for an installer? |
| 06:32.37 | nyov | eh, I wouldn't really call that embedded anymore (: |
| 06:32.47 | golazo_41_26 | :D yes, you're right |
| 06:33.25 | golazo_41_26 | I've downloaded the latest stable debian.iso from debian official web site |
| 06:33.33 | golazo_41_26 | and write it to usb stick with dd |
| 06:33.34 | ws2k3 | if i make a file with dd if=/dev/zero of=/sql/1g.bin bs=100G count=1 oflag=direct its only 2 gb when its done how is this possible? |
| 06:33.51 | nyov | is a sparse file then |
| 06:34.16 | nyov | hmm i think your count is wrong |
| 06:34.24 | nyov | bs=100G is not correct |
| 06:34.30 | nyov | imho |
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| 06:35.16 | ws2k3 | nyov then how should i do it? i wich to generate a file of 1 tb |
| 06:35.35 | nyov | but you can get a sparse file that is very big, but actually uses only the space that is non-zero in it by doing `truncate -s200G myfile` |
| 06:35.57 | nyov | ws2k3: depends what you need it for |
| 06:36.11 | nyov | a varnish mmap cache file? |
| 06:36.15 | nyov | or similar |
| 06:36.20 | nyov | or can it be sparse? |
| 06:37.22 | ws2k3 | nyov the volume of the raid controller jumps to read only when under load. i upgraded the firmware of the controller. and i wanne test it now extensivly |
| 06:37.48 | nyov | ok so it needs to be actual iops |
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| 06:39.18 | nyov | ws2k3: dd if=/dev/random of=/tmp/largefile bs=1024 count=1000000 |
| 06:39.39 | nyov | of course change /tmp/ dest |
| 06:40.07 | nyov | golazo_41_26: and that dd'd iso runs? |
| 06:40.21 | nyov | (my debian installer times are a while in the past) |
| 06:40.37 | golazo_41_26 | yes |
| 06:40.41 | nyov | ok |
| 06:41.09 | nyov | so this means your installer is a D-I |
| 06:41.17 | nyov | graphical install? |
| 06:41.20 | golazo_41_26 | yes |
| 06:41.23 | golazo_41_26 | I'm using that |
| 06:41.55 | nyov | it should have an option to connect to it from the network. but oh, that was quite some time back |
| 06:42.17 | golazo_41_26 | also it's not an option for me |
| 06:42.21 | nyov | ok |
| 06:42.27 | golazo_41_26 | my target cannot connect to the network |
| 06:42.39 | nyov | do you have a serial line on it? UART? |
| 06:42.39 | golazo_41_26 | I've to do it standalone iso image |
| 06:42.48 | golazo_41_26 | yes I've |
| 06:43.39 | nyov | well crap I have no idea how to activate that from d-i; perhaps you're lucky and it will spam serial with some info?? :D |
| 06:43.53 | golazo_41_26 | :D |
| 06:44.14 | golazo_41_26 | what is your opinion instead of graphical installation |
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| 06:44.35 | nyov | isn't there a #debian-installer channel around here somewhere.... |
| 06:45.04 | jim | maybe #debian-installer is on oftc |
| 06:45.15 | nyov | hm but that's for devel |
| 06:45.29 | nyov | golazo_41_26: try #debian-boot , on OFTC ? |
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| 06:46.02 | golazo_41_26 | what is the mean of OFTC |
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| 06:46.44 | nyov | it's a different IRC network than Freenode |
| 06:46.50 | golazo_41_26 | ah, thanks |
| 06:46.56 | jim | golazo_41_26, ok, in that case you could install just the minimal debian (aka "the base of debian") |
| 06:46.59 | nyov | irc.oftc.net |
| 06:47.08 | jim | what to do that? |
| 06:47.27 | jim | err -want- to do that? |
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| 06:47.56 | golazo_41_26 | yes it's what I want to do that |
| 06:48.02 | nyov | well, hopefully people in #debian-boot are more knowledgeable about the installer. if that failts, try #debian-installer |
| 06:48.03 | golazo_41_26 | I don't need to full debian |
| 06:48.10 | *** join/#debian drprune (~eliot@121-74-76-10.telstraclear.net) |
| 06:48.28 | golazo_41_26 | thanks a lot nyov, I'll try #debian-installar |
| 06:48.37 | nyov | good luck |
| 06:49.01 | golazo_41_26 | thanks |
| 06:49.04 | jim | golazo_41_26, ok, then run through the installation, and make sure you leave the network unconfigured, in this case it should install the base from the base packages on the installer image |
| 06:49.14 | nyov | they might even be waking up soonish... |
| 06:49.43 | nyov | yeah, actually where DOES it hang or crash or fail |
| 06:50.25 | golazo_41_26 | jim, I'm doing like that |
| 06:50.44 | golazo_41_26 | my network is unconfigured and installing from .iso |
| 06:50.46 | jim | golazo_41_26, after the base is installed, it should install a boot loader, so that you can boot into it, then work on configuring the net |
| 06:51.28 | golazo_41_26 | ah, are you mean another image which contains only base installation? |
| 06:51.32 | jim | some installer images have the base packages |
| 06:51.40 | jim | looks like yours does |
| 06:52.00 | golazo_41_26 | yes I think so |
| 06:52.20 | golazo_41_26 | but how I can stop after base packages are installed |
| 06:52.55 | jim | some installer images have the base packages (the debs), some don't |
| 06:53.42 | jim | what's the purpose of stopping the install there? |
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| 06:54.16 | golazo_41_26 | you meant that you just install base packages |
| 06:54.28 | nyov | (btw. i found that network-install option again: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetworkConsole ) |
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| 06:54.59 | blunt99 | Why debian still using pkla? |
| 06:55.15 | blunt99 | my understanding is the the localauthority policy database is long deprecated, and policy should be shipped as a rules file in /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d (though the syntax of .rules files is different than .pkla files, so it would need to be ported) |
| 06:55.28 | blunt99 | so why? |
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| 06:55.50 | blunt99 | I am not sure if this place is good for such discussions |
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| 06:56.42 | nyov | pkla? |
| 06:56.52 | blunt99 | nyov: Yes |
| 06:57.27 | nyov | sorry ihavenoidea. |
| 06:57.36 | nyov | ;dpkg -S /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/ |
| 06:57.41 | nyov | libvirt-daemon-system: /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d |
| 06:57.55 | themill | blunt99: I think you'll find most packages have been ported as you describe |
| 06:57.56 | nyov | eh I have a .rules file there :D |
| 06:58.09 | jim | golazo_41_26, well, it'll install the base, then finish the install (including prepare it so it can be booted)m after which the install would be done |
| 06:58.37 | blunt99 | It seems doesn't work for custom one... |
| 06:58.39 | blunt99 | Wait |
| 06:58.45 | golazo_41_26 | I couldn't understand that |
| 06:59.01 | golazo_41_26 | I just need to see traces of whole installation process |
| 06:59.08 | golazo_41_26 | how I can do that |
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| 06:59.22 | blunt99 | This post clears up: V |
| 06:59.24 | blunt99 | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/407967/polkit-rules-not-recognized-raspbian-stretch |
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| 07:00.29 | jim | golazo_41_26, whll, the installer generates a log of the install process |
| 07:00.36 | jim | is that what you mean? |
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| 07:01.13 | golazo_41_26 | where can I find them |
| 07:01.30 | golazo_41_26 | or how the installer generates the log to my usb stick |
| 07:02.02 | jim | hmm, I don't know where they end up, but when the installer is running, the log streams on one of the VCs |
| 07:02.52 | golazo_41_26 | I though that, if I can find the log file |
| 07:03.04 | golazo_41_26 | I can understand the reason of my installation problem |
| 07:03.34 | jim | doesn't it deposit the log file into the nonroot user's home dir? |
| 07:04.12 | golazo_41_26 | I couldn't check it |
| 07:04.18 | golazo_41_26 | because of my whole system stucks |
| 07:04.29 | golazo_41_26 | and I don't have any installed OS on my target |
| 07:04.42 | jim | so you can't boot it? |
| 07:04.43 | nyov | I find a d-i workaround that mentions serial console. so I assume one exists |
| 07:05.09 | nyov | golazo_41_26: in your shoes, I'd just imply connect that UART and see if you might not just see some logs there |
| 07:05.13 | nyov | *simply |
| 07:05.31 | golazo_41_26 | jim, I can boot it from usb stick |
| 07:05.33 | nyov | if you happen to have a USB-FTDI to serial converter lying around |
| 07:05.51 | golazo_41_26 | nyov, I'll try it |
| 07:06.08 | nyov | and then go hit on the #debian-installer guys perhaps |
| 07:06.13 | nyov | they should know |
| 07:06.25 | golazo_41_26 | I'm on this room |
| 07:06.31 | golazo_41_26 | but there are only a few guys |
| 07:06.42 | golazo_41_26 | I hope so, they can help me |
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| 07:09.00 | jim | golazo_41_26, if it's what I think it is, those guys work on the installer code |
| 07:09.28 | jim | some of those guys don't like to be bugged |
| 07:09.51 | nyov | oh yeah. the problems with fragmented chatrooms :( the specialists alre always idling or too few |
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| 07:10.19 | nyov | jim: but they should know how to wake up a serial console in the installer |
| 07:10.27 | nyov | it's their code |
| 07:10.32 | nyov | :O |
| 07:10.40 | jim | right, I did see that, |
| 07:11.31 | nyov | and as he has an embedded target, I'd say that counts as special. more so since the install seems to crash |
| 07:11.42 | nyov | should be exactly the place |
| 07:11.48 | jim | you go into expert mode, and then pick which components are loaded... there's even an ssh server in one of them, which installs and then you ssh to it and can then control the install as normal |
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| 07:12.04 | nyov | that's be my choice |
| 07:12.12 | nyov | except he has no network |
| 07:12.29 | jim | maybe we should figure out why |
| 07:12.45 | golazo_41_26 | actually i have a network card |
| 07:12.48 | jim | for the purpose of getting it to work |
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| 07:12.49 | nyov | i thought it was a hardware thing, no ethernet conn |
| 07:12.55 | golazo_41_26 | but it's for only private network usage |
| 07:12.56 | nyov | oh ok then |
| 07:12.59 | golazo_41_26 | I can try to do that |
| 07:13.05 | golazo_41_26 | I can install just ssh |
| 07:13.09 | golazo_41_26 | from packages |
| 07:13.21 | nyov | the installer has it's own ssh |
| 07:13.26 | golazo_41_26 | and then I can use ssh to control other installations |
| 07:13.28 | nyov | it won't be installed to the target |
| 07:13.29 | jim | yeah |
| 07:13.53 | jim | expert mode is no joke though |
| 07:15.01 | nyov | it was always my first choice â_â |
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| 07:16.00 | nyov | (actually I learned to use that after the regular install used to bork on me... before the times of d-i) |
| 07:16.22 | raziel86 | Hey guys, I recently installed Debian 9 and my wifi card won't work. It's a DW1520 Wireless-N WLAN Half-Mini Card |
| 07:16.22 | raziel86 | . It says the firmware is missing but I can't find anywhere online on how to get it to work. |
| 07:16.51 | nyov | raziel86: paste your `lspci -nn` output? |
| 07:17.06 | nyov | or give the id of you wlan nic |
| 07:17.36 | raziel86 | just a sec |
| 07:17.44 | nyov | should look something like '00:03.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Red Hat, Inc Virtio network device [1af4:1000]' |
| 07:17.50 | nyov | only for wifi |
| 07:17.59 | nyov | and we need that ID at the end |
| 07:18.07 | raziel86 | yeah it shows my eth and lo but no wlan |
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| 07:18.32 | nyov | uh so it's not even in lspci? |
| 07:18.40 | raziel86 | im in windows right now since i have no internet access |
| 07:18.40 | jim | you don't need the ssh installer thing, that's special ror when people do need that... it's for things like installing directly on a remote server |
| 07:19.04 | raziel86 | yeah it shows in lspci |
| 07:19.07 | nyov | ok |
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| 07:19.55 | pingfloyd | raziel86: in windows look under device manager for it |
| 07:20.03 | jim | raziel86, do you have another machine you can use to irc here while you work on the machine with the wireless? |
| 07:20.16 | raziel86 | here let me download hexchat on my phone and login to my debian distro |
| 07:20.25 | pingfloyd | it will show the pci id in one of those tabs in its properties |
| 07:20.48 | pingfloyd | like Hardware Vendor screen or something like that |
| 07:20.50 | jim | raziel86, that'll work |
| 07:20.58 | raziel86 | PCI\VEN_14E4&DEV_4353&SUBSYS_000E1028&REV_01 |
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| 07:21.56 | pingfloyd | 14e4:4353 |
| 07:22.02 | jim | raziel86, so the debian boots, but can't use the wireless right now? |
| 07:22.17 | jim | , pciid 14e4:4353 |
| 07:22.17 | raziel86 | yes |
| 07:22.18 | judd | [14e4:4353] is 'BCM43224 802.11a/b/g/n' from 'Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries' with kernel module 'bcma' in stretch. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=14e4:4353 http://wiki.debian.org/wl and the out-of-tree 'wl' module. |
| 07:23.03 | *** join/#debian Guest72339 (~androirc@2600:8801:2180:1340:d938:942f:8759:c3c6) |
| 07:23.05 | jim | so I guess he would just need the firmware packages? |
| 07:23.28 | nyov | out-of-tree. ouchi |
| 07:23.30 | pingfloyd | or the installer image with them included |
| 07:23.53 | Guest72339 | Ok im logged in on my phone. Switching to debian. Or should i stay on windows to download files and then access them in debian |
| 07:23.55 | jim | oh right of course |
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| 07:24.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1083] by debhelper |
| 07:24.09 | nyov | why does https://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=14e4:4353 say 'brcmsmac' |
| 07:24.52 | pingfloyd | !firmware images |
| 07:24.52 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>. |
| 07:24.56 | jim | thennn... potentially he could repeat the install with the firmware image |
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| 07:25.22 | jim | and maybe even get net and everything |
| 07:26.12 | raziel86 | so i save the firmware iso? then mount it and find the firmware i need? |
| 07:26.14 | nyov | raziel86: let's wait a second |
| 07:26.44 | nyov | what do you want to try. the `wl` module? or the open source driver? |
| 07:26.50 | jim | raziel86, no, the installer image takes care of all that for you |
| 07:27.41 | nyov | let's not reinstall for a stupid firmware, right? or do you need to install anyway? |
| 07:27.51 | raziel86 | how do i run it? sorry I'm still somewhat of a noob |
| 07:27.56 | jim | what you'd do is repeat the install... |
| 07:28.17 | raziel86 | oh damn |
| 07:28.36 | jim | raziel86, you already installed debian from an installer image, right? |
| 07:28.38 | raziel86 | i could do that I suppose. |
| 07:28.39 | nyov | jim: for the wl driver needs to build the module, no point in reinstalling |
| 07:28.59 | raziel86 | Yeah I have it on my flash drive. Why didn't the firmware load when I installed the first time? |
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| 07:29.35 | nyov | good question. the brcm80211 / bcma should perhaps have loaded |
| 07:29.44 | jim | nyov, is that a version of the wl module that's special in some way? |
| 07:30.14 | nyov | the wl module requires kernel-headers and dkms to build&install |
| 07:30.19 | jim | raziel86, which image is it? |
| 07:31.15 | jim | nyov, so he only has the base and right now no net? |
| 07:31.34 | raziel86 | just a sec. Let me check. |
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| 07:32.05 | jim | raziel86, if you have the file of it, the name of that file will tell us which one it is |
| 07:32.58 | raziel86 | debian-live-9.5.0-amd64-cinnamon.iso |
| 07:33.41 | jim | oh ok, that might have the firmware in some package, but not arranged to automatically install |
| 07:34.07 | jim | raziel86, which makes the firmware image worth a shot |
| 07:34.18 | raziel86 | oh, so can I just boot into debian and load the usb and pull the firmware from that? |
| 07:34.55 | jim | raziel86, the installer deals with the firmware |
| 07:35.56 | raziel86 | ok so how do I setup the usb in windows? |
| 07:36.00 | jim | also, you got a live image... that must have been like 3 gigs or somethjign... we know where there's an image one tenth that size that should work fine |
| 07:36.18 | raziel86 | oh ok cool |
| 07:36.19 | jim | which cpu do you have? |
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| 07:37.22 | raziel86 | intel u4100 |
| 07:37.38 | jim | what is that :) |
| 07:37.54 | jim | it it 32b, 64b? |
| 07:38.03 | jim | is it |
| 07:38.04 | raziel86 | 64 |
| 07:38.07 | jim | ok |
| 07:38.24 | jim | the image to download is... |
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| 07:38.24 | raziel86 | so amd64 arch |
| 07:38.30 | jim | yep |
| 07:39.01 | jim | https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.5.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 07:39.33 | jim | which is 326 mb |
| 07:39.42 | raziel86 | what should i use to setup the usb? imgburn? |
| 07:40.02 | raziel86 | dang that's awesome. Thanks. |
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| 07:40.27 | jim | well, the same thing you used before... let me ask: this would be your first linux install? |
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| 07:41.22 | jim | back in a bit |
| 07:42.03 | raziel86 | no not at all. I used dd in linux to make the first usb |
| 07:42.38 | nyov | if I can just butt in for a sec- |
| 07:42.43 | pingfloyd | win32diskimager |
| 07:42.51 | nyov | raziel86: do you have wired network on that target machine? |
| 07:44.21 | nyov | because i though you did and just wanted the wifi extra |
| 07:44.32 | raziel86 | i cant find any ethernet cable |
| 07:44.57 | nyov | ah okay. |
| 07:45.09 | *** join/#debian iderik (~idk@h-235-101.A147.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 07:45.54 | nyov | well, try the cd install then. but you still didn't specify if you'd like the opensource bcma or the closed-source wl driver |
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| 07:47.13 | jim | there's a tool you can get for win called rufus |
| 07:47.25 | jim | that has an image mode |
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| 07:48.30 | jetscreamer | ~help |
| 07:48.50 | jim | if you still have linux right now on the device (and what's the device anyway, a laptop?), you would use dd again |
| 07:49.37 | jetscreamer | !help |
| 07:49.50 | raziel86 | I'm downloading the iso. I'll let you know what happens |
| 07:50.01 | jim | jetscreamer, what would you like help with? |
| 07:50.14 | jetscreamer | !penixstrike |
| 07:50.18 | jetscreamer | :( |
| 07:50.32 | raziel86 | It'S a notebook laptop |
| 07:50.50 | jim | raziel86, oh, ok |
| 07:51.35 | jim | so it has a wireless and a wired interface (aka 2 interfaces) but you can't find a cable? |
| 07:52.17 | *** join/#debian dutchfish (~wil@unaffiliated/dutchfish) |
| 07:52.24 | jetscreamer | !seen dondelelcaro |
| 07:52.25 | dpkg | dondelelcaro is currently on #debian #debian-ops, last said: 'dpkg: ssb'. |
| 07:52.37 | jim | jetscreamer, try: /m judd listkeys help |
| 07:54.09 | jim | no, listkeys doesn't work on judd... try: /msg dpkg listkeys help |
| 07:54.19 | raziel86 | Yeah I never use ethernet and i can't find a cord |
| 07:54.34 | jetscreamer | box your modem came in |
| 07:54.45 | nyov | "< raziel86> Yeah I never use ethernet" oh I feel old |
| 07:55.32 | jim | yep, dpkg knows listkeys and listvals |
| 07:55.54 | jetscreamer | !love jim |
| 07:55.55 | dpkg | makes love to jim, caressing jim's hair, whispering sweet nothings in jim's ear... |
| 07:56.28 | jim | squirts oil at dpkg! |
| 07:57.34 | jetscreamer | i never could load his db in my.. what are they, eggdrops? i forgot |
| 07:57.53 | jelly | penixstrike was struck down, jetscreamer |
| 07:58.03 | jetscreamer | yeah i remember :) |
| 07:58.04 | jim | infobot? blootbot5 |
| 07:58.07 | jim | ? |
| 07:58.13 | jetscreamer | blootbot that was it |
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| 07:58.33 | jelly | !what are you |
| 07:58.33 | dpkg | I am an infobot. For more information, ask me about <infobot>. |
| 07:58.51 | jetscreamer | 'was' i guess |
| 07:59.02 | jetscreamer | i dunno i forget |
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| 08:06.28 | thms0 | Hi. What is the difference betwin "weekly" and "weekly-live" images (the non-free ones) |
| 08:06.55 | jetscreamer | i'd guess the live is for livedvd but no idea |
| 08:08.23 | jetscreamer | !tell thms0 -about livecd |
| 08:08.37 | thms0 | Thanks :) I know what a liveCD is though :P |
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| 08:10.43 | michael2 | hi, I have saved my network-manager connection profiles from another install onto a separate partition. I'm trying to re-use those connection profiles on my new install. so I symlinked /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections to a folder with the old connections. but network manager keeps reporting "read only filesystem" error - anyone know how to fix this? |
| 08:14.26 | jim | raziel86, how things going? |
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| 08:38.52 | jim | how do you disable having a default target in a makefile? |
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| 08:42.24 | thms0 | Just installed Debian Buster. My root user didn't have /sbin in $PATH, apt told me to add it. Why is the default path not "complete" ? (I also found usermod wouldn't work, since it's in /usr/sbin |
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| 08:45.46 | grobi | shell -w? |
| 08:47.57 | jelly | thms0: which command do you use to open a root shell or run commands as root? |
| 08:48.18 | jelly | or are you logging in as root directly |
| 08:49.06 | thms0 | jelly, I opened xfce4-terminal, su |
| 08:49.14 | jelly | thms0: use "su -" |
| 08:49.28 | thms0 | Alright :) |
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| 09:15.44 | rudi_s | jim: You can't AFAIK. The first target is the default target. |
| 09:15.56 | rudi_s | (You can display an error message and do nothing of course.) |
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| 09:18.21 | Krisostoomus | hot girlies about 35 add me to google hangouts, my e-mail is kristjanrobamolen@gmail.com |
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| 09:24.48 | jim | oh they got him |
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| 09:38.56 | michael2 | hi, I have saved my network-manager connection profiles from another install onto a separate partition. I'm trying to re-use those connection profiles on my new install. so I symlinked /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections to a folder with the old connections. but network manager keeps reporting "read only filesystem" error - anyone know how to fix this? |
| 09:39.40 | jim | what dir is it |
| 09:39.57 | jim | oh /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections |
| 09:40.16 | michael2 | the old profiles are stored in ~/my-data/network-manager/profiles |
| 09:40.23 | michael2 | so I did: |
| 09:40.41 | jim | so in your home dir |
| 09:40.53 | michael2 | yes the source files are in home |
| 09:41.12 | michael2 | is that why Im getting the file permission errors? |
| 09:41.32 | jim | are these separate files per connection/. |
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| 09:41.36 | jim | ? |
| 09:41.39 | Tech_8 | hi jim |
| 09:41.58 | jim | Tech_8, hi :) |
| 09:42.04 | Tech_8 | how are you |
| 09:42.07 | michael2 | jim: yes, each connection profile has a separate file |
| 09:42.15 | jim | I'm good |
| 09:42.32 | Tech_8 | jim, got any coffeee for me? |
| 09:42.52 | jim | peets is the best |
| 09:44.09 | jim | michael2, ok... would it make sense to go into your connection profiles, and run: git init ; git add . ; git commit? |
| 09:45.04 | nyov | hahaha |
| 09:45.15 | nyov | just say 'cp -a src bak' |
| 09:45.18 | michael2 | jim: convert the diretory into a git repo ? |
| 09:46.07 | nyov | funny how I tend to think the same. git everywhere |
| 09:46.09 | jim | yeah, then clone it into the dir you symlinked before |
| 09:46.33 | BCMM | is there a practical difference between "add ." and "add -A"? |
| 09:46.58 | michael2 | jim: do you mean so any changes that network manager makes will be tracked by git? or do you mean as a way of storing previous connection profiles? |
| 09:47.24 | michael2 | BCMM: yes |
| 09:47.29 | jim | nyov, well, I'm finding more and more use for git... it's the modern cat :) |
| 09:47.45 | michael2 | --all will stage deleted files - . won't |
| 09:48.17 | BCMM | michael2: thanks. so for a brand new repo, it's equivalent? |
| 09:49.10 | nyov | jim: years back I did git backups of lxc containers 8] ez- I thought |
| 09:49.16 | michael2 | yeah, you won't need --all, -A until you need to remove files from the index. so `git add .' will keep you going until then |
| 09:49.17 | jim | then you save your profiles into a repo... you could do a pare repo and push them to it, then clone that repo into nm's dir for profiles |
| 09:49.55 | nyov | (but dont use git for backups) learned it. timestamps are not my job, says git |
| 09:50.11 | jim | I'm trying to learn songwriting, and I'm saving my songs in git |
| 09:50.12 | michael2 | jim: and you mean git commit and push the changes back to the repo everytime I add a connection profile? |
| 09:51.06 | jim | maybe |
| 09:51.17 | Tech_8 | jim, git is like cat? |
| 09:51.21 | jim | or commit em all every once in awhile |
| 09:51.42 | michael2 | I prefer symlink - its self maintaining |
| 09:52.11 | jim | Tech_8, cat is a program that got much more uses than the author ever thought possible... and now git is the same |
| 09:52.12 | nyov | Tech_8: yeah didn't you know? you use git to cat stuff through github |
| 09:53.00 | Tech_8 | cool |
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| 09:54.43 | michael2 | git does sha1 integrity checks on all files/tree that it creates. gives an assurance you have what you expected to get |
| 09:55.24 | Tech_8 | cool |
| 09:56.34 | jim | Tech_8, the comparison I saw was that they were both very simple, and also innovative in its simplicity... in both cases, people came up with uses for them that the author didn't expect |
| 09:58.10 | Tech_8 | jim, its been awhile, cat is used to find a string in a file right |
| 09:58.15 | Tech_8 | like cat blah "text" |
| 09:58.31 | Tech_8 | ls -a | cat test |
| 09:58.37 | Tech_8 | i forgot, what i learned |
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| 09:58.42 | Tech_8 | been so long |
| 09:59.25 | Tech_8 | cat file will show the text |
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| 10:01.05 | jim | right, cat somefile will send the content of somefile to stdout |
| 10:01.26 | Tech_8 | jim, if you wanted to search for text inside the file you cat, what do you pipe it too |
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| 10:01.49 | jim | grep? |
| 10:01.58 | Tech_8 | oh yeah forgot |
| 10:02.03 | michael2 | jeez, I don't know why network manager keeps giving these file permission errors. does anyone know where NM saves it connection profiles to? |
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| 10:03.29 | michael2 | it looks like its trying to save a temp file like WiFiAP.UKPFEZ in /etc/Networkmanager/system-connections but then fails |
| 10:03.38 | michael2 | "read only filesystem" |
| 10:03.40 | jim | Tech_8, grep uses a very fancy language to describe the search pattern |
| 10:03.48 | hid3 | Greetings everyone. I need to allow a user execute a simple command as root (systemctl restart someservice). I don't want to install sudo and mess with it. Instead, I made a script for him, chmod'ed it as 4755. However, it still doesn't run as root. If I do 'id -u' and 'id -g' inside that script, I still get the user's uid and gid. Any ideas what's wrong? |
| 10:05.06 | jim | hid3, yeah, setuid scripts don't work the way you expect them to |
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| 10:06.25 | hid3 | uh... Why? :( Then how do I simply solve the task of allowing a certain user restart a certain service without sudo setup? |
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| 10:07.06 | jim | hid3, you may wisn to use sudo (even though you said you probably don't): it's set-and-forget, then you can specify the one command they're allowed to run |
| 10:08.21 | jim | sudo isn't that hard to set up |
| 10:09.18 | nyov | michael2: unless the error mesg is bogus, I'd expect either the filesystem *is* readonly, or n-m's user has no access permission at the files' location |
| 10:09.23 | jim | and it -seems- to be the right fit |
| 10:09.40 | hid3 | I know it's not hard |
| 10:09.50 | hid3 | I've used it before and I use it in other systems |
| 10:09.59 | hid3 | but in this system I'd like to avoid it at any cost... |
| 10:11.24 | michael2 | nyov: how do I check if the directory is read only? I've set dir perms to 777. `mount' says the filesystem is "rw" |
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| 10:12.19 | nyov | hid3: so the script is setuid and owned by root? |
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| 10:14.19 | nyov | michael2: it would be the entire filesystem that'd be ro, check with mount; but I don't know how n-m runs, as user (like PA) or as superuser service? |
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| 10:15.55 | michael2 | nyov: thats what I said above - `mount' says filesystem is rw. I made the directory 777. unless thats the problem? maybe its erroring because its TOO permissive? |
| 10:17.08 | nyov | michael2: my bad. I missed that. I don't think it could be too permissive for n-m. |
| 10:17.42 | nyov | can't you just copy the files where they would be regularly, and own them to n-m? |
| 10:17.57 | hid3 | nyov: yes it is |
| 10:18.06 | hid3 | chown root:root scriptname |
| 10:18.10 | michael2 | nyov: I'll try that |
| 10:18.11 | hid3 | chmod 4755 scriptname |
| 10:18.31 | jelly | hid3: Linux kernel does not allow setuid on #! scripts. |
| 10:18.45 | hid3 | the shell was #!/bin/sh, I changed it to /bin/bash with no change - same result |
| 10:18.52 | hid3 | omg.... |
| 10:18.59 | michael2 | there is no "network manager" user |
| 10:19.08 | michael2 | it looks like NM runs as root |
| 10:19.14 | jelly | use sudo, or make a compiled binary wrapper that is setuid. |
| 10:19.25 | hid3 | will probably compile it with C |
| 10:19.28 | hid3 | should be easy |
| 10:19.45 | nyov | ...inb4 roothack |
| 10:20.06 | jelly | (use sudo) |
| 10:20.31 | hid3 | yeah, know about sudo, but already told about it... |
| 10:20.37 | nyov | you know you can set sudo to not ask for a password for a specific command, right? |
| 10:21.16 | nyov | you don't have to use ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL in /etc/sudoers |
| 10:21.24 | jelly | I guess configuring sudo to allow one specific command for one specific user is harder than writing a setuid wrapper! |
| 10:21.33 | nyov | (sometimes I hink sudo made things worse) |
| 10:21.52 | nyov | by existing |
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| 10:22.15 | hid3 | Yes, I know all of that |
| 10:22.18 | jelly | sudo is an excellent tool. Usage of sudo that Ubuntu popularized is... missing the point. |
| 10:22.34 | hid3 | but if I install sudo on this system, I will get lots of attention and lots of questions asked |
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| 10:23.24 | jelly | you can explain it's more secure than writing a setuid wrapper from scratch |
| 10:23.50 | jelly | and easier to configure and manage longterm |
| 10:24.54 | nyov | if it weren't for the (systemctl restart someservice) line, i would also mention you can use setcap on a binary |
| 10:24.55 | jelly | in a sane environment, making a custom setuid would bring up more red flags than correct use of distro-provided tool |
| 10:26.01 | nyov | i.e.: setcap cap_net_raw=eip /usr/bin/python3.5 # < allow root network access to python |
| 10:26.36 | nyov | but that won't help for service restarts |
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| 10:29.30 | hid3 | anyway |
| 10:29.33 | hid3 | compiled a C program |
| 10:29.41 | hid3 | consists of one system() thingie |
| 10:29.43 | hid3 | works nice |
| 10:30.06 | hid3 | I'll leave the policy as to 'use sudo' or 'use some other tool' to decide for the management |
| 10:30.32 | hid3 | if some day they get mature to use sudo, it will be very easy to adopt it |
| 10:30.55 | hid3 | thanks for heads up on setuid not working on shell scripts - I didn't know that |
| 10:31.48 | oiaohm | nyov: giving scripting langauge massive privilage is kind of playing with fire. |
| 10:33.03 | nyov | indeed :) sorry I should have thought about a better example. but I had the python path in clipboard *g* |
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| 11:58.26 | hexhaxtron | I compiled bitlbee from source and I'm trying to start it like 'systemctl start bitlbee' and I get: Failed to start bitlbee.service: Unit bitlbee.service is masked. |
| 11:58.32 | hexhaxtron | How can I fix this? |
| 12:00.16 | booyah | how to download youtube videos on debian? |
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| 12:01.05 | diogenes_ | booyah, there are several ways |
| 12:01.58 | booyah | I see that youtube-dl works (but afair not for all vids?) |
| 12:02.16 | booyah | diogenes_: there is downloadhelper for firefox, but it requires root when installing companion app |
| 12:03.22 | diogenes_ | booyah, you can just download with the help of vlc |
| 12:03.26 | diogenes_ | no other things needed |
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| 12:03.42 | bites | youtube-dl works batter if you have the latest version. unfortunately it's not in stretch-backports. you can backport it or use pip to install it. |
| 12:03.50 | bites | s/batter/better/ |
| 12:04.08 | diogenes_ | vlc is best for me |
| 12:04.44 | p0rt | I'm having problems with printing pdfs using Lexmark E360d. The job shows as completed, but in fact the printer shows "Flushing Buffer" and then prints a garbage postscript error. I managed to print a pdf by running pdftops manually and then printing the .ps file but the format is not A4 but legal/letter (a small one, close to A5). |
| 12:05.19 | booyah | diogenes_: how so? |
| 12:05.26 | diogenes_ | booyah, wait i'll tell you |
| 12:05.27 | booyah | bites: youtube-dl failed for 2nd video I tried |
| 12:05.35 | p0rt | Also changing pdftops-renderer-default to pdftops made printing possible, but it's still not the right format and doesn't work every time |
| 12:05.43 | bites | booyah: the latest version or the one in stretch? |
| 12:05.48 | p0rt | I'm using cups 2.2.8 |
| 12:05.54 | booyah | bites: debian 9 |
| 12:06.05 | bites | booyah: that's why i said the latest version works better. |
| 12:06.29 | bites | booyah: youtube changes things constantly. older versions don't hold up well. |
| 12:07.28 | booyah | if not demoratic govs and bs like copyurights, firefox would probably just integrate saving video stream from site |
| 12:07.38 | booyah | another bitter day in software |
| 12:07.58 | diogenes_ | booyah, copy a youtube link open it with vlc media > open network stream, after video starts playing go to tools > codec information see there "location"ctrl+a to copy all the info from the location and paste it into the browser, it will open the video that you can just right click and save as |
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| 12:09.02 | booyah | diogenes_: thanks will try. Though I now noticed, I would need also non-yt, like various streaming video portals. Tried pasting their URL into VLC and youtube-dl, didnt work |
| 12:09.26 | diogenes_ | no need for youtube-dl |
| 12:09.31 | diogenes_ | with vlc method |
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| 12:50.43 | EdePopede | lot of work with vlc, while youtube-dl is just a command away, knows tons of sites and gets updates every few days. and youtube-dl can be used by mpv. |
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| 13:11.34 | diogenes_ | Hey guys, is there mesa:i386 for stable? |
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| 13:13.36 | abrotman | should be, do you believe otherwise? |
| 13:14.18 | diogenes_ | abrotman, no clue, i'm still kind of learning debian |
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| 13:14.32 | diogenes_ | been on rpm for a long time |
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| 13:14.45 | premoboss | debian 9.5 stable, amd64. i use kicad 4.0.5 from repository. if I install kicad-packages3d, aptrget REMOVE kicad. Why? |
| 13:15.09 | premoboss | btw, also kicad-packages3d is from repository. |
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| 13:16.05 | bites | premoboss: because kicad-packages3d Breaks: kicad (<< 5.0.0~rc1+dfsg1-1~), kicad-common (<< 5.0.0~rc1+dfsg1-1~) |
| 13:16.20 | bites | you need to have kicad installed from stretch-backports for that to work. |
| 13:16.37 | premoboss | mpf... |
| 13:16.39 | premoboss | ok |
| 13:16.55 | premoboss | i did not pay attention to message of apt. |
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| 13:17.42 | premoboss | the funny is tat i di yesterday, with running kicad, so i got the packages3d adn use it. this mortnig, at reboot, o got the surprise. |
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| 13:18.34 | premoboss | btw, kicad from backport is still 4.0.5 or 5.0? i read that kicad 5 preaks somethin and i dont want to loose my ongoing project on kicad 4.0.5 |
| 13:18.55 | bites | ,v kicad |
| 13:18.56 | judd | Package: kicad on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.20120526+bzr3261-1; jessie: 0.20140622+bzr4027-3; jessie-backports: 4.0.5+dfsg1-4~bpo8+1; stretch: 4.0.5+dfsg1-4; jessie-backports-sloppy: 4.0.7+dfsg1-1~bpo8+1; stretch-backports: 5.0.0+dfsg1-2~bpo9+1; buster: 5.0.0+dfsg1-2; sid: 5.0.0+dfsg1-2 |
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| 13:19.30 | bites | kicad-packages3d from stretch-backports does not work with kicad 4 |
| 13:21.03 | premoboss | i just need some libraries... what if i expand the .deb and take just what i need? dirty way, i know. |
| 13:21.35 | kittykitty | got pcsxr installed but it doesnt open the controller config dialogue when the joystick is inserted, evtest recognises it and i have permission for it, any ideas? Is it some udev problem or something? |
| 13:21.42 | premoboss | all in all, i just need some .step and some .wrl liles. |
| 13:21.53 | premoboss | files* |
| 13:22.05 | bites | i don't know how plugins work in kicad. you will have to read the docs. |
| 13:23.18 | premoboss | i go to try and report, just in case someone need to know. |
| 13:23.41 | bites | presumably you will have to find a version that fits your kicad install. there must be a reason why the maintainer marked them as breaks. |
| 13:23.55 | bites | not sure what you are trying to report. |
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| 13:31.27 | premoboss | ok, i works. i used mc to navigate inside the .deb pakage and copy the needed directory/file where i should be placed in /user/share/kicad/modules/packages3d. |
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| 13:35.00 | hexhaxtron | I'm providing Web Host for free. Where can I submit my Web Host? |
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| 13:59.50 | fooman2011 | Hello. I have a linux device connected to a screen but without keyboard. I 'm connected to the device using ssh. Is there a way to run a command from my ssh terminal as it was the keyboard of the device ? (I mean the display will be on the screen connected to the device) |
| 14:01.32 | VinAlencc | If I understood what you said, just use "ssh login@host command" |
| 14:04.06 | fooman2011 | it works. thanks for the help :) |
| 14:04.17 | VinAlencc | U r welcome! :-) |
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| 14:08.33 | sZbcE8qNfG | Hello, I downloaded the debian installer ISO and DDed it to a hard drive. I want to now verify the checksum of that hard drive. Do I DD it back to an ISO and then compare the sha512 against the published debian checksum? |
| 14:09.50 | themill | !check iso |
| 14:09.50 | dpkg | To verify you have a valid and official Debian CD/DVD image, see http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#verify . To test an ISO image was burned correctly, compare the output of «md5sum filename.iso; dd if=/dev/cdrom | head -c `stat --format=%s filename.iso` | md5sum». You should compare this md5sum to the checksum for the ISO image on the mirror. See also <check iso signature>. |
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| 14:11.23 | sZbcE8qNfG | nice thanks! |
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| 14:12.08 | themill | (update the device name and iso filename as appropriate) |
| 14:12.26 | sZbcE8qNfG | yep |
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| 15:00.05 | regedit | hello. hoping to get my touchpad to function normally. Issues: 1) some taps are missed altogether (even xev shows nothing on those missed taps. sensitivity issue?) 2) touchpad corner buttons are not distinct; they always do LMB |
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| 15:08.11 | Noldorin | So, I keep trying to recover my raid1 from my uncorrupted drive, but when I leave it to resync overnight, I always find the next day that it's failed (presumably), and the configuration is messed up again. What's going on here? |
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| 15:20.28 | dunaeth | Hi, I own a laptop that seems to loose too much power while in suspend state, any idea on how to troubleshoot this ? |
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| 15:24.50 | at0m | dunaeth: in the bios (i guess, if kernel doesn't override), disable "wake up by x" where x could be PCI, mouse, usb, keyb,.. |
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| 15:33.17 | dunaeth | at0m: Imma give this a try, thanks |
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| 15:33.40 | dunaeth | at0m: what if kernel overrides this ? Any way to check it ? |
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| 15:46.49 | dunaeth | at0m: well there's no option in the uefi bios to enable/disable wake up on whatever |
| 15:47.57 | at0m | wakeonlan, sometimes called PXE boot? just guessing. that stuff keeps these devices alive, and that eats battery |
| 15:48.12 | at0m | not a lot, but some |
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| 15:48.54 | dunaeth | at0m: well the only options available are related to security (enabling / disabling USB, network stack, graphics) |
| 15:49.55 | at0m | dunaeth: ok. then i dont know what remains alive during suspend that could be disabled to save battery |
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| 15:50.28 | dunaeth | at0m: shouldn't pm-suspend log if something fails ? |
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| 15:51.46 | sZbcE8qNfG | hello, this question is in general and not specific to debian |
| 15:52.10 | A|an | I have an acct I'd like to delete...if I use deluser <username>, will the acct proper be simply removed, or will files belonging to that user in *other* accts be deleted as well? |
| 15:52.40 | at0m | dunaeth: i dont think it would warn you if laptop kept polling usb bus, for example, to wake up when activity is detected. you could try: does it wake up when usb mouse is moved? or keyboard pressed? or usb stick inserted? (notice my handwaving cos i have no further clues) |
| 15:52.44 | sZbcE8qNfG | I have a folder and I want to give read/write access 2 to users only. Is the only way to do this to create a group, add both users to group, and give the group r/w access to folder?? |
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| 15:58.44 | hexhaxtron | Can someone suggest me an easy to use VoIP SIP Server? |
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| 15:59.58 | n4dir | i do know mumble exists, but i can't say if it is more easy than others. |
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| 16:04.24 | n4dir | the debian freedombox wiki page also mentions repro and sipwitch (iirc idea of freedombox *is* to make it as easy as possible). |
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| 16:22.05 | at0m | mumble is not technically SIP, but it does audiochat. well supported and developed, used for many games as chat backend. so low latency etc. |
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| 16:22.24 | at0m | using plumble client for it on my mobile |
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| 16:23.29 | at0m | mumble config is very easy, works out of the box. just port-forward on the router after installation, iirc |
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| 16:26.36 | n4dir | at0m: if you are in the mood: what means SIP ? (i do know the word, but thats it) |
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| 16:26.59 | at0m | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol |
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| 16:28.08 | n4dir | thanks. it is beyond me though. :-) |
| 16:28.27 | jelly | it's _the_ protocol for voip |
| 16:28.38 | at0m | from another page: "Compared to VoIP and other similar systems, SIP systems can be more difficult to set up and manage, making them most suitable for companies with strong IT support" |
| 16:29.26 | at0m | SIP can also do video and data, not just voice |
| 16:29.30 | jelly | don't tell anyone about half a dozen asterisk or freepbx distros |
| 16:29.58 | at0m | hexhaxtron^ |
| 16:30.02 | n4dir | i see, jelly. (but then why can you do calls with mumble ... questions and questions ). |
| 16:30.17 | jelly | it's not the only one. |
| 16:30.58 | at0m | asterisk and pbx also translate to/from landlines, if you have the hardware for it |
| 16:31.05 | at0m | mumble doesnt |
| 16:32.59 | Noldorin | So, I keep trying to recover my raid1 from my uncorrupted drive, but when I leave it to resync overnight, I always find the next day that it's failed (presumably), and the configuration is messed up again. What's going on here? |
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| 16:34.55 | jelly | Noldorin: /var/log/kern.log (or dmesg command output) might provide clues. |
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| 16:36.46 | Noldorin | okay |
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| 16:55.43 | bipul | I'm getting this error message 140522339600024:error:0406506C:rsa routines:RSA_EAY_PRIVATE_DECRYPT:data greater than mod len:rsa_eay.c:518: When i'm trying to decrypt encrypted text |
| 16:56.01 | bipul | Do anyone know the solution? |
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| 16:58.17 | Noldorin | jelly, https://gist.github.com/266f3ca9bb9a9916b0d39ecff5e96f87 https://gist.github.com/44d2a6205ceb7ac0ac4c4d16c42e7a15 |
| 16:58.17 | Noldorin | -- any thoughts? |
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| 17:02.03 | tw | bipul: does it look base64 encoded? might need to convert it to raw before decrypting. |
| 17:02.04 | hexhaxtron | Anyone running a SIP Server? I've tried several servers and couldn't make any of them to work... |
| 17:02.26 | bipul | tw: I did, no luck, |
| 17:03.40 | tw | no idea then, file corruption seems most likely. It's telling you the rsa part it wants to decrypt to get the symmetric key is too long for the rsa key length. |
| 17:04.15 | tw | which usually means the header is corrupted. |
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| 17:04.44 | bipul | tw: You the header of encrypted text file? |
| 17:04.55 | bipul | You mean* |
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| 17:05.22 | tw | Yes, the part that holds the rsa-encrypted symmetric key. |
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| 17:26.51 | bipul | tw: Okay thank you. |
| 17:27.02 | Noldorin | Sep 13 14:31:30 home-media-server kernel: [124253.751084] md/raid1:md0: sda: unrecoverable I/O read error for block 1701124352 |
| 17:27.07 | Noldorin | that looks like it |
| 17:27.15 | Noldorin | is it corrupted data or a bad disk? |
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| 17:28.03 | tw | Noldorin: disk is throwing the error, not the filesystem. |
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| 17:28.23 | Noldorin | tw, okay... so the disk is busted then. thanks |
| 17:28.48 | joft | Noldorin: the disk in question is USB connected right? ... I might be wrong, but it seems like the USB connection is bad ... |
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| 17:29.01 | Noldorin | @joft, really? |
| 17:29.03 | Noldorin | hmm |
| 17:29.08 | Noldorin | it is USB connected yes |
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| 17:29.25 | tw | It's really easy to get disks to fall out of raid over USB. |
| 17:29.32 | tw | USB is not a reliable connection. |
| 17:29.37 | tw | (in general) |
| 17:29.55 | Noldorin | mhm |
| 17:30.03 | joft | Noldorin: pure gut feeling .... too many of those USB related messages in your syslog, so ... |
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| 17:30.33 | Noldorin | @joft, it's rpi USB... so presumably not the best |
| 17:31.27 | joft | Noldorin: and it's a raspi 1 .... my raspi 1 does not really like some usb devices, it's just flaky sometimes, regarding USB |
| 17:31.47 | pingfloyd | raid over usb is just plain bad |
| 17:31.55 | Noldorin | @joft, aha, interesting to hear. |
| 17:32.02 | pingfloyd | even if it weren't a rpi |
| 17:32.03 | Habbie | joft, power related? |
| 17:32.09 | Noldorin | would a rpi 3 do a better job of it? |
| 17:32.28 | Noldorin | I know, raid over usb isn't recommended, but this is experimental. I can't afford a proper machine |
| 17:32.37 | joft | Habbie: yes, power is one thing for sure |
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| 17:34.29 | joft | Habbie: in contrast to my raspi v3, my v1 seems to be very "sensitive" when it comes to USB ...... some is true for the acceptance of certain sdcards |
| 17:35.06 | Noldorin | joft, so you think it's less likely the disk itself is busted? |
| 17:35.54 | joft | Noldorin: yes, my guess is that's a USB issue from the data/log I see |
| 17:36.18 | Noldorin | joft, okay, thank you. I will consider upgrading to a rpi 3. |
| 17:37.09 | joft | Noldorin: well, as others have already said: RAID over USB is in general not something to be recommended |
| 17:37.45 | joft | Noldorin: anyway, what's your goal? |
| 17:38.03 | Noldorin | @joft, a home NAS, partly for educational purposes, partly for actual use |
| 17:38.13 | Noldorin | @joft, like I said, I can't afford an actual NAS server |
| 17:38.56 | joft | Noldorin: how about using some older x86 hardware? with normal SATA? |
| 17:39.19 | Noldorin | @joft, I have these big USB drives already too... would have to buy SATA drives. |
| 17:39.23 | Noldorin | and the older x86 hardware |
| 17:39.27 | Noldorin | which would still be more than an rpi |
| 17:40.07 | Habbie | i bet buying old x86 stuff can be done for less than the price of an rpi |
| 17:40.16 | Habbie | but the power usage would soon compensate the savings |
| 17:40.17 | joft | Noldorin: these USB drives are SATA drives, it just includes a USB to SATA translator |
| 17:41.00 | Noldorin | joft, hmm. so you're saying I could rip the thing open and take out the SATA drive? |
| 17:41.05 | Habbie | Noldorin, pretty likely |
| 17:41.28 | Noldorin | interesting. |
| 17:41.40 | Noldorin | are they any miniature old x86 boxes out there? :P |
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| 17:42.44 | joft | Noldorin: so you don't have space? it has to be miniature? ;-) |
| 17:42.59 | Noldorin | @joft, yeah, where I need to put it, I really don't heh! |
| 17:44.02 | joft | Noldorin: unfortunately the BananaPi (raspi alternative) has only 1 SATA port ... otherwise I could recommend that one |
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| 17:47.20 | Noldorin | @joft, ah rubbish heh |
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| 17:58.10 | jelly | Noldorin: external usb disks need lots of power, and more for writes than for reads. If you're only powering it from the arm board usb host, it might just not be getting enough power |
| 17:58.27 | Noldorin | @jelly, nah, I have a UB hub |
| 17:58.50 | jelly | powered one presumably, that might work |
| 17:59.51 | Noldorin | yeah |
| 18:00.01 | Noldorin | @jelly, would that still be worse than SATA though? |
| 18:00.05 | Noldorin | and "much" worse? |
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| 18:01.12 | bipul | How to use revocation.crt to recover lost key ? anyone? |
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| 18:14.04 | jelly | Noldorin: honestly with a slow arm board, it doesn't really matter whether it's slow over sata or slow over usb |
| 18:15.43 | jelly | sata has less overhead and easier to read s.m.a.r.t. because linux tools don't support all the different usb-sata bridges properly |
| 18:16.38 | jelly | Noldorin: you can try HDsentinel to assess health of your disk if smartctl (from smartmontools) doesn't do it |
| 18:18.16 | jelly | !hdsentinel |
| 18:18.17 | dpkg | A gratis but closed source <SMART> client with slightly more user-friendly output than <smartctl> and ability to read more USB devices than smartctl. Binaries for x86 and ARM at http://www.hdsentinel.com/hard_disk_sentinel_linux.php |
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| 18:25.53 | Noldorin | jelly, heh okay |
| 18:26.02 | Noldorin | jelly, so maybe just get an rpi 3 after all? |
| 18:26.06 | Noldorin | jelly, or you recommend something else? |
| 18:26.12 | Noldorin | I'll run hdsentinel first though, yes. thanks |
| 18:26.31 | Noldorin | ah, smartctl too |
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| 18:37.15 | Reignendt | Hello! Could anyone take a look at this and help me explain what the issue is? https://streamable.com/gj98u |
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| 18:44.06 | Brigo | Reignendt, check this: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=224265 |
| 18:45.52 | Reignendt | Thanks |
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| 18:47.54 | Brigo | Reignendt, np, good luck |
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| 19:15.31 | michael2 | hi, I have saved my network-manager connection profiles from another install onto a separate partition. I'm trying to re-use those connection profiles on my new install. so I symlinked /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections to a folder with the old connections. but network manager keeps reporting "read only filesystem" error - anyone know how to fix this? |
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| 19:19.20 | Habbie | michael2, systemd units have a habit of enabling various protections, to prevent daemons from going places they do not belong; you could try disabling those for this daemon to see if that helps |
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| 19:19.58 | Habbie | michael2, then if it does help, don't just leave those protections disabled; enable them again and perhaps move your profiles to a suitable place |
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| 19:20.28 | Noldorin | jelly, smartctl gives me this: |
| 19:20.29 | michael2 | Habbie: thanks. I'll take a look a the NetworkManger.service unit file |
| 19:20.34 | Noldorin | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:24.12 | michael2 | Habbie: I can see in the unit file ProtectSystem=true and ProtectHome=read-only - those look like they may be the cause? |
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| 19:30.59 | vkolchev | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.35 | Habbie | michael2, yes, System seems likely based on my very short reading of your question |
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| 19:32.47 | dan123 | Hello, is it just me, or the python3-pyside2 metapackage (same as https://packages.debian.org/unstable/python3-pyside but for pyside2) doesn't exist? I've seen it in resolution of this bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=877871;msg=85 but it doesn't seem to exist anywhere else. |
| 19:32.49 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/877871 in wnpp (closed): «ITP: pyside2 -- Qt for Python»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2017-10-06; last modified: 2018-08-29. |
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| 19:37.45 | Robby | anyone know of a tool, similar to "ipcalc" which takes a start ip and end ip and converts it to a CIDR blocks? for example, "ipcalc 192.168.0.0-192.168.2.0" would result in 192.168.0.0/23 and 192.168.2.0/32 |
| 19:37.56 | Robby | but which also supports of doing this with IPv6 addresses. |
| 19:40.31 | Robby | eg "ipcalc 2001:db8:900::-2001:db8:9ff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff" fails miserably due to it lacking IPv6 support. |
| 19:40.53 | Robby | (which should result in 2001:db8:900::/40) |
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| 19:58.39 | djangoboss | I have inherited a server which was moved from one data center to another. There was a USB external HDD connected to it. It used to show with label like: local-raid1 but now that same drive is not attached I think. I don't where it was attached |
| 19:58.44 | djangoboss | but things seem not to be in place |
| 19:59.10 | djangoboss | so my question is: is there anyway I can check the history and see how the external HDD was mounted before the server was moved so I can mount it same way? |
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| 20:03.00 | djangoboss | anyone? |
| 20:03.04 | n_1-c_k | Robby: maybe subnetcalc |
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| 20:05.51 | djangoboss | is there anyway to know what path an external HDD was mounted yesterday? the server was restarted without the external HDD but I want to mount it to same path. |
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| 20:07.15 | T3RM1N41 | You could probably check journalctl |
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| 20:09.22 | djangoboss | T3RM1N41: how to check journalctl? |
| 20:09.37 | petn-randall | djangoboss: Type 'journalctl' as root. |
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| 20:10.20 | djangoboss | petn-randall / T3RM1N41 - OK got that, and what should I look for? and when? |
| 20:10.55 | petn-randall | djangoboss: What OS and release is this server running? |
| 20:10.57 | T3RM1N41 | You will need to look for the date and time that the HDD was connected to see where it was connected at |
| 20:11.10 | T3RM1N41 | For more info on journalctl https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/journalctl.html |
| 20:11.42 | Robby | n_1-c_k: thank you, I just checked it out, but sadly it doesn't support this feature |
| 20:12.15 | petn-randall | djangoboss: I'm asking because journalctl might only show you data from the *current* boot, not previous ones. |
| 20:12.21 | Robby | but did learn yet of another tool now :P I know of ipcalc, sipcalc, whatmask, and now subnetcalc :) |
| 20:14.25 | T3RM1N41 | djangoboss you could check the log files in /var/log if journalctl doesn't show what you want. |
| 20:14.28 | djangoboss | petn-randall: debian 8.6 |
| 20:14.55 | djangoboss | T3RM1N41: what should I search for? tons of lines |
| 20:15.39 | petn-randall | djangoboss: Then journalctl is not persistent, and you need to look in /var/log/kern.log. |
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| 20:16.09 | T3RM1N41 | ^^ you can use grep to make the process a little easier. |
| 20:16.41 | T3RM1N41 | https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/grep/grep.1.en.html |
| 20:17.12 | djangoboss | petn-randall: I have a line line this from Sep 11: Sep 12 03:01:05 proxmox-a kernel: [26913020.944937] usb 1-1.6: reset high-speed USB device number 4 using ehci-pci |
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| 20:17.32 | djangoboss | T3RM1N41: I know how to use grep; what should I search for though? |
| 20:17.56 | T3RM1N41 | djangoboss: any line before or after that saying where the drive was mounted? |
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| 20:18.06 | djangoboss | no, it's all the same line |
| 20:18.14 | djangoboss | kern.log.2 is gzip |
| 20:18.19 | djangoboss | so i have to unzip to read... |
| 20:18.30 | T3RM1N41 | The entire logfile is 1 line? |
| 20:19.10 | petn-randall | !proxmox |
| 20:19.11 | dpkg | Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial ##proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support |
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| 20:19.35 | petn-randall | djangoboss: They did change a couple of things, to I'd try asking in their support channel. ^^^ |
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| 20:20.04 | djangoboss | their channel is dead |
| 20:20.14 | petn-randall | Not much we can do about it. |
| 20:20.17 | djangoboss | i would really appreciate your help here .... i am search logs still |
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| 20:20.29 | djangoboss | i doubt they have changed logs |
| 20:20.37 | djangoboss | can you guys give me a word to search for and I will run a grep |
| 20:20.49 | petn-randall | !based on |
| 20:20.49 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 20:21.31 | djangoboss | petn-randall: let me ask you a final question, if some had mounted the HDD on a debian system, they can also make it permenent, is that in fstab? |
| 20:22.06 | petn-randall | djangoboss: That's /etc/fstab, yes. |
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| 20:25.10 | djangoboss | thanks |
| 20:25.37 | petn-randall | djangoboss: If #proxmox is dead, you can always try ##linux, that's a lot busier and also has some user overlap with this channel. |
| 20:26.02 | djangoboss | cool thanks |
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| 20:26.45 | djangoboss | petn-randall: I found this in fstab, does it mean anything? |
| 20:26.45 | djangoboss | http://dpaste.com/3NR2PCK |
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| 20:29.16 | tharkun | Good $DAY. I have been using notion for quite some time and recently I have had to stop using it since it will not support wayland. So far I am looking for a wm and dm that has indeed an extremely light memory footprint and it is to say the least stable. Any suggestions among the infinity of choices available on Debian? |
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| 20:35.30 | n4dir | tharkun: i wouldn't bet, but i don't think the memory footprint is very different between the different window-managers. |
| 20:39.35 | n4dir | the only not-stable wm i ever ran into was e17, back in the days, when it was super-experimental. All others seem to be stable (that is: i never heard or experienced anything different) |
| 20:43.05 | tharkun | n4dir: gnome is a total memory hog, kde is even worse. And for all the rest. I have no clue. I know I have a dualcore with only 2GB that needs to be more agile. Using directly a framebuffer doesn't seem to be the option now a days. |
| 20:43.31 | n4dir | i call both desktop environments, not wm's. |
| 20:44.08 | n4dir | i meant the stuff like openbox, icewm, window-maker, awesome, ratpoison, etc. |
| 20:44.15 | tharkun | n4dir: you are right hence the double question. |
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| 20:44.49 | n4dir | don't take my word for it, but i really think when it comes to those, regarding memory footprint and stability you can pick the one you like. |
| 20:44.58 | tharkun | IIRC there was some lx something but I believe that is stuck with X so nothing new for wayland |
| 20:45.16 | tharkun | n4dir: What are you using? |
| 20:46.11 | n4dir | i use openbox, but i do so little with the window manager, that i don't mind much (i am not a big fan of tiling, as i don't fully understand them. Used awesome and used it just like a "normal" window manager). |
| 20:47.01 | n4dir | if you want comfort with a bit more of footprint, xfce might be a choice. Last time i checked it used ca 70 MB when doing nothing |
| 20:48.35 | tharkun | n4dir: xfce and lxde are the ones I am looking at the moment. I don't care about "Eye Candy" I just need the machine to work fast. I am a big fan of xterm which I don't think it will work under wayland any more. |
| 20:48.41 | n4dir | i always forgot cinammon and such. Everything which appeared after gnome 3. I can't say anything about those (assume they are like gnome2, then xfce is still better) |
| 20:48.58 | tharkun | I agree |
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| 20:52.42 | n4dir | i sit on lousy hardware too, btw. The bigger problem for me is not which window-manager (or xfce, for that i got enough), but which web-browser. All but gnome and kde work here, it seems. |
| 20:53.26 | tharkun | n4dir: Installing everything and beginning testing. Eventually I'll have to nuke this machine since I believe it will be pushed beyond the limits of the configuration scripts.Thanks for the heads up. |
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| 20:53.57 | n4dir | good luck, and have fun too ! :-) |
| 20:54.28 | joft | so which window managers will we have on wayland? (apart from to gnome/kde stuff) |
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| 21:14.21 | Ameisen | Hello, question - if I want to use apt-build to build, say, binutils or gcc-8, is there a way to specify that I _don't_ want it to build every single possible architecture? |
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| 21:24.09 | n4dir | Ameisen: you might want to ask in #packaging. |
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| 21:36.42 | jetscreamer | when dpkg returns 15 of 32 listkeys, 1-15, how do i ask for the remainder, 16-32? |
| 21:37.27 | jetscreamer | !listkeys intel |
| 21:37.28 | dpkg | Factoid search of 'intel' by key (15 of 32): _default intel ;; _default intel8x0 ;; artificial intelligence ;; blase intellectuals ;; intel ;; intel mac ;; intel macs ;; intel slow scrolling ;; intel-pstate ;; intel-ucode ;; intel_idle ;; intelligence ;; intellimouse ;; your intelligence ;; your intelligence is<reply>my intelligence. |
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| 21:38.29 | pldiem | does anyone has two graphics cards in the computer? |
| 21:38.46 | pldiem | I have some issues with debian, freezes very often |
| 21:38.46 | antto | does a built-in count? |
| 21:38.48 | diogenes_ | pldiem, right inside the computer yes |
| 21:38.52 | pldiem | usually after login |
| 21:39.22 | jetscreamer | doesn't ask if they're nvidia |
| 21:39.24 | pldiem | do you configure something special? |
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| 21:39.46 | antto | pldiem have you checked whether it's not the RAM? |
| 21:40.53 | Brigo | i have the built-in one and an old nvidia |
| 21:40.54 | pldiem | now after few hard restart I cannot boot at all :( |
| 21:41.12 | jetscreamer | what happens if you only run one card |
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| 21:41.22 | pldiem | antto: RAM is seen in BIOS |
| 21:41.25 | Brigo | pldiem, why do you think is about the graphic cards? |
| 21:41.47 | Brigo | pldiem, not a big clue. |
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| 21:41.50 | pldiem | someone suggested on forum that this might happen with to cards |
| 21:41.58 | pldiem | *two |
| 21:42.10 | jetscreamer | and does your psu supply enough |
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| 21:42.18 | Brigo | pldiem, is system is getting worse is not because the graphic cards. |
| 21:42.44 | Brigo | i would guess the hardware, ram or maybe disk. |
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| 21:42.57 | petn-randall | pldiem: antto suggested you to *check* the RAM with e.g. memtest86. Just because the BIOS sees it doesn't mean its still working fine. |
| 21:43.26 | antto | yeah, a bunch of bytes from it could be "broken" .. |
| 21:43.32 | pldiem | unfortunately something failed completely |
| 21:43.33 | petn-randall | Actually, the BIOS does no other check than just counting the amount. |
| 21:43.54 | pldiem | now I cannot boot the system |
| 21:43.55 | antto | yeah, testing the RAM takes a lot of time, so.. |
| 21:43.56 | jetscreamer | try taking things out one at a time and see if it works maybe |
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| 21:44.05 | antto | pldiem could be the PSU then |
| 21:44.15 | pldiem | what's psu? |
| 21:44.18 | antto | or something else, or a combination |
| 21:44.21 | jetscreamer | power supply unit |
| 21:44.27 | antto | pldiem the power-supply-unit |
| 21:44.41 | antto | that big metal box with the huge fans and many cables |
| 21:45.01 | jetscreamer | i dunno, i have bigger fans in my box :) |
| 21:45.05 | pldiem | it is a laptop |
| 21:45.14 | pldiem | and it was bought yesterday |
| 21:45.19 | jetscreamer | two vid cards in a laptop? |
| 21:45.32 | pldiem | yes |
| 21:45.35 | antto | if you change or add more hardware to the computer - you have to consider whether your PSU will be able to handle it |
| 21:45.38 | jetscreamer | *sigh* |
| 21:45.47 | antto | wut |
| 21:45.57 | jetscreamer | nvidia or amd/ati |
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| 21:46.01 | pldiem | I did upgraded RAM and NVME |
| 21:46.12 | CrystalMath | hi, i have a question about the latest firefox update |
| 21:46.14 | pldiem | but as specification suggested |
| 21:46.23 | CrystalMath | it seems to have killed audio on ALSA-only systems |
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| 21:46.47 | CrystalMath | is this because debian changed the configuration, or because upstream just killed ALSA support completely? |
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| 21:46.52 | Schroeder | you know |
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| 21:46.55 | petn-randall | CrystalMath: That was already broken before that. |
| 21:46.59 | Schroeder | the worst thing about Debian might be the fact that it was created at Purdue |
| 21:47.15 | CrystalMath | petn-randall: it worked absolutely fine before 60.x, now it still works fine through apulse |
| 21:47.17 | jetscreamer | really? didn't know that |
| 21:47.33 | CrystalMath | but i have to build apulse everywhere and it's annoying :P |
| 21:47.37 | petn-randall | CrystalMath: Most audio cards only support a single output, and with ALSA it's first come, first serve. If it worked before it was purely coincidence. |
| 21:47.46 | CrystalMath | what about dmix? |
| 21:48.02 | CrystalMath | one of my computers has a very old card |
| 21:48.05 | CrystalMath | it cannot handle pulseaudio at all |
| 21:48.09 | CrystalMath | way too slow |
| 21:48.10 | petn-randall | CrystalMath: Why not just use the default pulseaudio? |
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| 21:48.16 | CrystalMath | but dmix works fine |
| 21:48.29 | CrystalMath | petn-randall: none of my computers handle pulseaudio, in fact |
| 21:48.38 | CrystalMath | the only place where it sorta works is a virtual machine |
| 21:48.43 | CrystalMath | but even there it chops a lot |
| 21:48.52 | CrystalMath | and destroys the quality |
| 21:48.55 | CrystalMath | quite audibly |
| 21:49.09 | CrystalMath | in my experience it is just awful, 0/10 |
| 21:49.10 | petn-randall | How does pulseaudio make it any slower? It runs fine on a raspberry pi, and it's only a fraction of the speed of a desktop machine. |
| 21:49.23 | CrystalMath | oh? no, it's not slower because of pulseaudio |
| 21:49.29 | CrystalMath | but pulseaudio cannot play stuff properly |
| 21:49.36 | CrystalMath | it makes noises and chops |
| 21:49.43 | CrystalMath | because it can't manage to output on time |
| 21:49.45 | n4dir | didn't know that pulseaudio is default |
| 21:50.00 | CrystalMath | on this computer it has a weirder bug |
| 21:50.06 | CrystalMath | i tried both stable and building from sid |
| 21:50.07 | jetscreamer | for a while i 'think' |
| 21:50.10 | CrystalMath | like, it plays fine |
| 21:50.16 | CrystalMath | but when i pause |
| 21:50.22 | CrystalMath | sometimes it creates this weird noise |
| 21:50.25 | CrystalMath | make out of the last N samples |
| 21:50.33 | CrystalMath | for an additional few seconds |
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| 21:50.38 | CrystalMath | i removed it, ALSA is perfectly fine |
| 21:51.12 | CrystalMath | i also use JACK Audio, for various DAWs and stuff |
| 21:51.28 | CrystalMath | but that is not always running |
| 21:51.39 | CrystalMath | JACK, btw, works perfectly |
| 21:51.41 | petn-randall | !enter |
| 21:51.42 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 21:51.59 | CrystalMath | ok, sorry |
| 21:52.10 | CrystalMath | petn-randall: but you did manage to follow that, right? |
| 21:52.29 | jetscreamer | 0 |
| 21:53.55 | CrystalMath | i wish i could say that even one computer runs pulseaudio without problems.... perhaps one of my laptops could? i never tried pulseaudio on it |
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| 22:02.24 | CrystalMath | still, if a program has that many problems i just can't say it's any good; it's a terrible choice for the default; but idk if it's maybe the only "sound server" we have on GNU/linux that is general-purpose (JACK is for professional audio stuff) |
| 22:03.01 | CrystalMath | though personally my choice for ordinary sound-using software is - no server, just ALSA with dmix |
| 22:03.31 | n4dir | i propose we switch to the good old editor-flamewar. |
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| 22:05.06 | CrystalMath | n4dir: well, we don't have famous free software browsers depending exclusively on vim/emacs, do we? |
| 22:05.33 | n4dir | you saying there is no web-browser in emacs ? now i am shocked ... :-) |
| 22:06.02 | n4dir | more serious: i search for years. sure haven't found a good web-browser. |
| 22:06.55 | binaryhermit | I wouldn't say the web browser in emacs is exactly famous |
| 22:07.09 | binaryhermit | now, Firefox on the other hand |
| 22:07.41 | CrystalMath | i've been a loyal firefox user since 1.0 |
| 22:07.48 | binaryhermit | the computers at the public library seem to have firefox as the default browser? |
| 22:08.02 | binaryhermit | not sure how hidden IE is or if there's also chrome |
| 22:08.11 | binaryhermit | tries not to use library computers |
| 22:08.25 | CrystalMath | the betrayal Mozilla gave me, with EME, with sponsored ads, and now pulseaudio, was totally unexpected |
| 22:08.46 | CrystalMath | i really think it needs competition |
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| 22:10.18 | CrystalMath | (well, okay, i suppose in the not-just-free-software world, it has lots of competition, and it's pretty much losing) |
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| 22:13.05 | n4dir | anyway, here is a short list of web-browsers: https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Internetanwendungen/ I wonder why no one mentions konqueror or epiphany anymore. Probably they got their own problems. |
| 22:14.48 | *** join/#debian klynxz (~takezo@177.157.63.215) |
| 22:15.17 | CrystalMath | why are there non-free browsers in that list? |
| 22:16.00 | binaryhermit | does it say it only includes FLOSS browsers? I nein spekken ze deutch |
| 22:16.17 | binaryhermit | knows that's horribly incorrect probably |
| 22:16.43 | *** join/#debian hypn0 (~h@unaffiliated/hypn0) |
| 22:16.56 | n4dir | sounds like dutch. It only lists browser, though the only one which might be non-free is opera . |
| 22:17.07 | n4dir | as far it's me, duh. |
| 22:17.09 | CrystalMath | binaryhermit: "Ich spreche kein Deutsch" i think |
| 22:17.37 | binaryhermit | fair enough |
| 22:18.26 | binaryhermit | I was pseudo-phoenetically spelling out some of it, and I know very little german |
| 22:18.45 | binaryhermit | although if someone spewed that out it'd get the point across |
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| 22:20.11 | binaryhermit | I mean, it's worse than my spanish, which is about limited to se habla espanol, which is ironic |
| 22:20.35 | CrystalMath | binaryhermit: just put "no" in the beginning to negate it |
| 22:24.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1108] by debhelper |
| 22:25.29 | EdePopede | konqueror would come with five and a half lines of dependencies (fullscreen xterm), since i don't use kde (ressources). and after i had some issues (like it crashed on a 301 with empty body) and website builders nowadays seem to be in a horse breeder like competition it was the last browser of a DE i gave a serious chance. |
| 22:25.38 | EdePopede | 2 reasons, there are probably more. |
| 22:26.14 | jelly | n4dir: webkit does not get timely security updates and is not safe to use on the internet, so konqueror is out |
| 22:26.40 | n4dir | i see. I tried it, but didn't stick to it, but i forgot why. |
| 22:28.01 | jelly | there's basically just two usable web browsers for linux, chromium/chrome and firefox |
| 22:28.16 | n4dir | ha. just wanted to propose that conclusion. |
| 22:28.24 | jelly | current opera uses the same engine as chromium |
| 22:28.28 | CrystalMath | and chromium is google'd |
| 22:28.41 | CrystalMath | and firefox is pulse'd :( |
| 22:28.46 | CrystalMath | but the latter is easier to fix |
| 22:28.48 | diogenes_ | falkon is good |
| 22:28.57 | jelly | I have no idea what you mean by "google'd" |
| 22:29.09 | CrystalMath | jelly: it contains lots of google spyware, phones home, etc... |
| 22:29.15 | jelly | CrystalMath: does it? |
| 22:29.18 | n4dir | doesn't firefox too? |
| 22:29.46 | CrystalMath | n4dir: not as far as i can see, but even it does, it probably doesn't send data to google |
| 22:29.48 | jelly | CrystalMath: do you have network traffic to prove debian's build has all that? |
| 22:29.57 | jetscreamer | if you're not browsing from a throw down box, you're doing it wrong |
| 22:30.03 | jelly | or are you just spreading fud |
| 22:30.08 | jetscreamer | throwdown |
| 22:30.12 | CrystalMath | jelly: no, i was always too afraid to try it |
| 22:30.47 | CrystalMath | honestly, i'm too scared to even let it run once... who knows what it might do, probably inject a backdoor into every executable it can write to |
| 22:31.06 | jelly | best not run any software from debian, then |
| 22:31.13 | jelly | write everything from scratch |
| 22:31.20 | CrystalMath | jelly: but i use firefox :P |
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| 22:31.39 | CrystalMath | i generally trust debian but google is too scary to deal with |
| 22:31.49 | jelly | you don't get chromium from google. |
| 22:32.13 | CrystalMath | so it's safe to try debian's chromium? |
| 22:32.27 | jelly | !tias |
| 22:32.27 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
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| 22:32.45 | jelly | if it does any of the things you think it does, file bug reports |
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| 22:33.18 | jelly | try to avoid spreading unverified rumors |
| 22:33.32 | CrystalMath | well, the word "google" scares me enough |
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| 22:33.56 | jelly | I suppose you don't have a smartphone, then, either |
| 22:33.59 | CrystalMath | nope |
| 22:34.03 | CrystalMath | no smartphone |
| 22:34.15 | CrystalMath | my only mobile telephone is a Nokia 3310, the old one |
| 22:34.24 | Butt3rfly | if technology scares you so much, there is always pencils and paper, they still exist |
| 22:34.26 | jelly | good choice |
| 22:34.40 | jelly | until 2G networks shut down |
| 22:34.49 | EdePopede | didn't FSB go back to mechanical typewriters? |
| 22:34.56 | jetscreamer | i finally caved to the gods of google android and gave them an email addy |
| 22:35.05 | *** join/#debian vjacob_ (~vjacob@31.13.191.164) |
| 22:35.23 | CrystalMath | jetscreamer: 2G is actually more safe than 3G, at least in europe |
| 22:35.26 | CrystalMath | oops, not jetscreamer, jelly |
| 22:35.37 | CrystalMath | sorry |
| 22:35.38 | jetscreamer | still locked out of one phone due to no email |
| 22:36.03 | n4dir | Butt3rfly: that hasn't got much to do with being scared of technology. For example look at the videos of the freedombox project and also Eben Moglen |
| 22:36.12 | michael2 | android doesn't lock you out of phone if no email |
| 22:36.17 | petn-randall | CrystalMath: That's not true, but then again that's offtopic here. |
| 22:36.40 | jetscreamer | it's a bit more complicated than that but basically the facts |
| 22:37.09 | n4dir | Also there was a blog from Uwe Hermann about how much firefox sucks, regarding security, but i can't find it right now. |
| 22:37.24 | ryouma | programs are bags full of tricks / with backdoors and bugs more than 6 / 15:28 <CrystalMath> and chromium is google'd 15:28 <CrystalMath> and firefox is pulse'd :(15:28 <CrystalMath> but the latter is easier to fix |
| 22:37.35 | jetscreamer | no if there was never one it does not, nor if there is currently not one |
| 22:38.19 | CrystalMath | petn-randall: was your comment about 3G? in which case, i also have the Nokia N900 as a backup :) |
| 22:38.25 | petn-randall | CrystalMath: FYI https://events.ccc.de/congress/2009/Fahrplan/attachments/1519_26C3.Karsten.Nohl.GSM.pdf |
| 22:38.35 | jetscreamer | fsb |
| 22:38.48 | aloo_shu | !pkg qupzilla2 |
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| 22:39.38 | petn-randall | 1000$ budget lets you read any SMS and listen on every call within the range of your antenna. |
| 22:39.45 | petn-randall | Gotta go, time to sleep. |
| 22:40.21 | aloo_shu | how was that syntax? anyhow, qupzilla & qupzilla2 are browsers that deserve a chance |
| 22:40.44 | jetscreamer | !find qupzilla2 |
| 22:40.54 | jetscreamer | failed |
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| 22:43.31 | CrystalMath | does chromium work fine without a google account? |
| 22:43.45 | bites | yes |
| 22:43.46 | n4dir | jetscreamer: i guess you are looking for this: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/qupzilla |
| 22:44.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1101] by debhelper |
| 22:44.07 | ryouma | tharkun: fwiw fluxbox is just a wm and has features i cannot find in anything else |
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| 22:44.17 | CrystalMath | does chromium play audio with just ALSA? |
| 22:44.29 | ryouma | tharkun: (like autohide gkrellm) |
| 22:44.35 | aloo_shu | n4dir: I was, but I wanted it from the bot |
| 22:44.57 | n4dir | aloo_shu: yeah, i don't know the syntax myself. perhaps ,v qupzilla ... |
| 22:46.27 | CrystalMath | https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/google-eavesdropping-chromium-users/ |
| 22:47.16 | CrystalMath | things like that are very scary ^ |
| 22:47.29 | jetscreamer | !find qupzilla |
| 22:47.30 | dpkg | qupzilla-plugin-kwallet: (transitional package for qupzilla-plugin-kwallet), section libs, is optional. Version: 3.0.0-3 (sid), Packaged size: 20 kB, Installed size: 33 kB |
| 22:47.40 | CrystalMath | and it specifically says that it's the debian version of chromium |
| 22:48.01 | hypn0 | what did you expect CrystalMath |
| 22:48.09 | jetscreamer | bbl |
| 22:48.23 | CrystalMath | hypn0: jelly said it's safe, i looked stuff up |
| 22:48.27 | CrystalMath | and found that |
| 22:48.52 | CrystalMath | hoping that jelly will read it and say something like "oh, we made sure nothing like that happens in the debian version ever again, it's totally safe now" |
| 22:49.12 | CrystalMath | but... that's too much to ask for, is it? |
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| 22:49.23 | hypn0 | CrystalMath: get something for free, and you think people don't do things like that :-/ |
| 22:49.38 | CrystalMath | firefox doesn't do that |
| 22:49.54 | *** join/#debian Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@unaffiliated/sir-designer/x-5975211) |
| 22:49.59 | CrystalMath | or, at least, it has never been caught downloading and running non-free software to listen on the microphone |
| 22:50.12 | hypn0 | but it does other things |
| 22:50.17 | bites | CrystalMath: debian has removed a lot of things from chromium, the hotword module being one of them. |
| 22:50.32 | CrystalMath | hypn0: i made a lot of things for free, i even did things for people on their demand, for free; i never did anything like that |
| 22:50.58 | CrystalMath | hypn0: so if i were to assume that everyone is like me, everyone would make free software out of the kindness of their hearts |
| 22:51.06 | CrystalMath | and completely selflessly ask for nothing in return |
| 22:51.07 | hypn0 | well money makes you lose morals |
| 22:51.48 | CrystalMath | hypn0: thanks for the heads up, i will make sure not to get a significant amount of this "money" |
| 22:52.29 | bites | corporate interest, not idealism, drives linux development. |
| 22:52.32 | aloo_shu | !dfind qupzilla2 |
| 22:52.35 | n4dir | not that i had a clue, but the very reason for SRWare Iron were concerns regarding privacy in chromium, no? |
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| 22:53.10 | CrystalMath | bites: but not GNU development :) |
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| 22:53.37 | michael2 | What is debian's official policy about projects which are open source, e.g. chromium, but which contain (or load on demand) non-free components? would debian still package that in main archive? or contrib or non-free? |
| 22:53.57 | CrystalMath | michael2: it was fixed, so it's in "main" |
| 22:54.15 | CrystalMath | michael2: it's not supposed to run non-free components, if it does then it's bug |
| 22:54.36 | CrystalMath | but it's always hard with google, you never know what that evil is up to |
| 22:54.38 | bites | CrystalMath: the gnu project gets many contributions from corporations as well. |
| 22:54.43 | michael2 | I mean in general. I was just using chromium as an example |
| 22:54.45 | aloo_shu | funny, dpkg answers me in the query I've got open with him - Updating debian files [..]. failed. |
| 22:54.54 | CrystalMath | bites: but are they *why* GNU exists? |
| 22:55.02 | CrystalMath | bites: or is it idealism? |
| 22:55.09 | bites | no, that's not what i said, was it? |
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| 22:56.10 | CrystalMath | bites: it's not, but, i meant to say that as long as people like Stallman exist, there's still hope |
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| 22:57.19 | CrystalMath | bites: i'm pretty much a Neo-Luddite in a lot of ways, i do use computers and free software on them, but i am not really a fan of technology itself |
| 22:57.47 | CrystalMath | though i suppose that's not really being a Neo-Luddite... i should rephrase that |
| 22:58.04 | EdePopede | technology should be helpful and fun (ideally both of them) |
| 22:58.05 | CrystalMath | i'm apathetic towards the progress of technology, i only care about the progress of freedom |
| 22:58.20 | aloo_shu | !find qupzilla2 |
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| 22:59.09 | Gerowen | CrystalMath: Stallman takes things to an extreme though, I think. Take Debian for example, it takes an extreme stance, but it gives you the option of using non-free components if you need to. Not all of us have the time or desire to write our own hardware drivers, and there's some hardware that just straight up wouldn't work right without the proprietary blobs, so it's nice to have a clean, "free" software only foundation, but have the option to stray |
| 22:59.09 | Gerowen | from that when/if you want/need to. Stallman, best I can understand, doesn't even think we should be given that choice, the GNU peeps don't even endorse Debian as a "free" operating system. |
| 22:59.18 | n4dir | "Your software is used in war machines to kill people and the companies will never give back. So enforce GPLv3, it's needed. " bitreich manifest. Loving the sarcasm in it. |
| 22:59.41 | CrystalMath | Gerowen: yeah i don't like that, debian is right there |
| 23:00.22 | CrystalMath | Gerowen: *debian is right, there |
| 23:00.25 | ryouma | Gerowen: it is also the case that debian thinks that ceratain gnu documentation is non-free |
| 23:00.41 | CrystalMath | ryouma: and that's where i think debian is wrong :P there's nothing wrong with the GFDL |
| 23:00.42 | ryouma | tar, emacs |
| 23:01.06 | CrystalMath | i install that documentation from non-free because i think the license is really nice and acceptable |
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| 23:02.26 | CrystalMath | i'd also put software whose only "fault" is that it disallows commercial usage/distribution into a separate category |
| 23:02.35 | bites | doesn't matter what you think is nice if it does not fit the requirements of DFSG. |
| 23:02.55 | CrystalMath | bites: i don't really complain about it being in non-free |
| 23:03.07 | CrystalMath | bites: but because i think it's nice, i install it |
| 23:04.32 | ryouma | i keep a close watch on vrms and aptitude search |
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| 23:07.30 | EdePopede | »There are no restrictions on redistribution of the main Debian distribution.« -- but you have to be careful about the license you chose when uploading your images to wikipedia (may appear on a DVD) |
| 23:07.50 | EdePopede | "commercial" isn't that easy |
| 23:08.05 | n4dir | Gerowen: why debian isn't considered "free" by the gnu project is explained here: http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html ; the position of debian also makes sense to me. It is a tricky problem. |
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| 23:11.55 | bobodome | Whatever update was pushed to recently broke Thunderbird for me. The message header panel dissapeared for me. |
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| 23:29.09 | aloo_shu | "Your softwarebis used in warbmachines to kill peopleband the companirs will never give back. So enforce GPLv3, it's needed", bitreich manifest <-- this is when I thought it's getting interesting. --> ethics --> philosophy |
| 23:29.17 | aloo_shu | sry |
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