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| 01:00.24 | awal1 | is there any utility like 'thunar-media-tags-plugin' I can use with pcmanfm or any other file manager? |
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| 01:01.10 | awal1 | thunar-media-tags-plugin effective renaming |
| 01:01.38 | awal1 | anything ^ |
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| 02:10.58 | JohnA | I don't backup my whole system I general I have found its simpler to just reinstall if something goes wrong. However, I used to use "sbackup" to back the files felt were important to me. But this package is no longer maintained. What would be a "good" replacement? |
| 02:11.31 | MiekeReust | i made some amazing conceptual artwork and wallpapers for debian Buster, i heard the last date 4th september expired. Can i still submit it.? |
| 02:11.37 | nkuttler | JohnA: which features matter to you? |
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| 02:22.53 | sysadmin_wannabe | cya |
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| 02:40.40 | acidtripper | Hi there |
| 02:40.50 | acidtripper | i have a little question i was asking myself today.. |
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| 02:41.17 | acidtripper | it's slackpkg checksum error, when a package is not upgraded, the ting that you have to reinstall by hand |
| 02:41.20 | acidtripper | solved on current? |
| 02:41.34 | acidtripper | mean when you do upgrade-all and fails for some package error downloading |
| 02:41.35 | acidtripper | solved? |
| 02:41.47 | acidtripper | or you have to reinstall it by hand? |
| 02:43.00 | acidtripper | example: slackpkg upgrade-all.. some package faild on checksum, then you have to do $slackpkg reinstall $package-name . is that solved on current? just upgrade-all again instead of re-installing it? |
| 02:43.06 | acidtripper | sorry |
| 02:43.08 | acidtripper | not here |
| 02:44.17 | acidtripper | sorry for off-topic :P |
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| 02:56.51 | awal1 | acidtripper, this is debian channel, not slackware |
| 02:58.00 | acidtripper | hahaha awal1 i didn't take the blue pill today |
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| 03:05.16 | dollfan | Hello, I'm trying to install termite, which requires vte-ng. vte-ng uses autogen, and that's where my problem is. Running ./autogen.sh in the vte-ng git direction gives this error: "Introspection requested but M4 macros not installed". How do I install M4 macros? |
| 03:05.25 | dollfan | If there is a better place to ask this question please let me know |
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| 03:12.32 | JohnA | nkuttler: sorry for the delay. Not sure what I want - I suppose a replacement for sbackup - ability to select what gets BU and same ability to select was is restored including the ability pick a date/version |
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| 03:15.31 | ryouma | describe sbackup |
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| 03:15.40 | ryouma | or what you want |
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| 03:16.52 | ryouma | almost all tools can do both of those things |
| 03:16.58 | ryouma | rsnapshot is popular and good |
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| 03:21.56 | JohnA | sbackup is/was a backup system/suite that would backup user specified files and directories to user selected media/directory. it had a user selectable logarithmic retention scheme, daily, 1 perweek, 1 permonth ... |
| 03:22.20 | ryouma | i canno seem to find the freeze dates for buster. all i have is full freeze. https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster where are the various dates for buster? |
| 03:22.38 | ryouma | JohnA: yeah, rsnapshot |
| 03:22.48 | ryouma | defintely </ rainman> |
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| 03:23.28 | ryouma | you can set the scheme as you like |
| 03:23.40 | JohnA | ryouma: the restore app could select a file or a version of one and restore it. |
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| 03:24.37 | ryouma | JohnA: those are basic features of all backup systems |
| 03:24.52 | ryouma | JohnA: the great thing about rsnapshot is that you use normal tools to restore |
| 03:24.58 | ryouma | (and rsnapshot-like rsync-based) |
| 03:25.33 | ryouma | so you odn't need to learn arcane syntax of whatever tool, or have it installed |
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| 04:00.45 | michael2 | wow, I just installed okular pdf viewer, and it installed 128 dependency packages! Is there a more lightweight pdf viewer available? |
| 04:01.37 | kopper | Zathura |
| 04:02.39 | michael2 | kopper: thanks, I'll give it a try |
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| 14:49.29 | greycat | With systemd, there are no shell scripts, so there's nothing that can be dotted in. Customizations are done by creating a "drop-in directory" as described at https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Creating_or_altering_services |
| 14:49.58 | pidroid | greycat: ah ok, that is why my modification doesn't work, snmp is managed by services and not by init.d |
| 14:50.09 | pidroid | ok i read that |
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| 14:50.38 | wtflux-- | morning all |
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| 14:52.39 | nemo | so. bit of a question about backports |
| 14:52.48 | nemo | I wanted to get latest libreoffice which is in backports (yay) |
| 14:53.01 | jelly | but a systemd unit can be told to read environment vars from a file. Not sure if content of those files can be used in the command line starting a service |
| 14:53.06 | nemo | in synaptic I can "force version" but it doesn't seem to pick up any of the dependent libreoffice packages |
| 14:53.15 | greycat | Depends on the service, of course. |
| 14:53.21 | nemo | what's the correct way to pick up libreoffice-* from backports as well? |
| 14:53.27 | han-solo | jelly: yeah, you can do some bash hackery i think |
| 14:53.34 | han-solo | shell hackery, if you will |
| 14:53.42 | greycat | nemo: "apt-get -t stretch-backports libreoffice" should work |
| 14:53.46 | nemo | ok |
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| 14:54.25 | nemo | greycat: with "install" that worked nicely. thanks |
| 14:54.31 | greycat | ugh, yeah |
| 14:54.32 | nemo | guess I was hoping there was something gui-ish ⺠|
| 14:54.48 | themill | synaptic doesn't seem to get a huge amount of love of late |
| 14:55.00 | nemo | greycat: you wouldn't happen to know anything about how to beg that a flag get added to debian kernel would you? |
| 14:55.06 | nemo | that's the main reason I'm hanging out here |
| 14:55.16 | nemo | not even in main build necessarily - for one thing it seems to be an AMD-only flag |
| 14:55.28 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelReportingBugs |
| 14:55.32 | nemo | greycat: I already tried asking in the bug, but it doesn't seem to have any attention |
| 14:55.40 | nemo | it's long-standing existing bug |
| 14:55.50 | greycat | Well, that's the official channel for asking the kernel maintainers to do stuff. |
| 14:55.53 | nemo | mm :/ |
| 14:56.13 | nemo | seems like such a minor request, but I understand that anything in kernel can easily end up not being minor |
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| 14:56.57 | nemo | It's for CONFIG_PINCTRL_AMD=y btw - and the bug was filed a year and a day ago ⺠|
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| 15:14.18 | jhutchins_wk | nemo: Are you wanting to get the option added to the kernel, or to just change the config? |
| 15:14.55 | greycat | ... huh? |
| 15:15.23 | greycat | (also, what's the bug number?) |
| 15:16.15 | petn-randall | nemo: What is the bug number? |
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| 15:18.10 | nemo | petn-randall, jhutchins_wk https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=876141 |
| 15:18.11 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/876141 in src:linux (open): «linux-image-4.12.0-2-amd64: Touchpad not detected on Lenovo IdeaPad 320-15ABR»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-09-18; last modified: 2018-09-13. |
| 15:18.21 | nemo | there's an existing kernel.org bug on this too |
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| 15:18.37 | nemo | the last comment noted that as of the... 4.13 kernel I believe, the touchpad was now working reliably |
| 15:18.39 | OxCEA5ED | high! anybody here familiar with the lua-yaml package? or at least knowing why a feature introduced in the upstream package version 6.0 is not there in the debian package 6.1-2 ? |
| 15:18.50 | nemo | in addition on various other forums one can find users reporting that 4.13, 4.14 etc work well |
| 15:18.54 | nemo | but they probably have that option enabled |
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| 15:18.59 | jhutchins_wk | ,kernels |
| 15:19.00 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-rc3-686 (4.19~rc3-1~exp1); sid: 4.18.0-1-686-pae (4.18.8-1); buster: 4.18.0-1-686-pae (4.18.6-1); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.18.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u4); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u4~deb8u1); |
| 15:19.01 | judd | wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1) |
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| 15:19.15 | nemo | jhutchins_wk: yeah... I'm on stretch backports kernel. 4.17 |
| 15:19.25 | nemo | jhutchins_wk: which in theory should work fine, if that config option was enabled |
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| 15:19.58 | nemo | I did try downloading the source and packaging my own following isntructions on debian wiki page, but failed miserably at getting a kernel where anything worked (usb... wifi...) - I know how to do that manually on my gentoo machine, but did not want to mess up your carefully tuned structure |
| 15:20.07 | jhutchins_wk | nemo: Ah, well, if there's not a boot option to enable it, just rebuild the kernel with it enabled. |
| 15:20.07 | nemo | so figured I'd see if upstream could generate a kernel with this flag |
| 15:20.18 | nemo | jhutchins_wk: yes. that's exactly what I tried, and screwed up badly |
| 15:20.28 | f0x | I can't connect to WPA-EAP/TTLS wifi anymore using wpa_supplicant |
| 15:20.29 | nemo | so was just hoping I could get one made by a debian build server or something |
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| 15:20.42 | f0x | running debian sid, error is <3>CTRL-EVENT-EAP-STATUS status='local TLS alert' parameter='protocol version' |
| 15:23.05 | petn-randall | nemo: Did you recompile the backports kernel with the flag, and it worked? If yes, that's valuable info to add to the bug report. |
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| 15:24.04 | nemo | petn-randall: the touchpad didn't work, but then almost nothing else worked - the reporter did note that it worked however, last year |
| 15:24.13 | nemo | petn-randall: I reverted my kernel hurridly |
| 15:24.32 | nemo | did not look into whether for example passing the flag mentioned in the bug would have helped |
| 15:24.37 | nemo | since it was clearly very broken |
| 15:24.39 | petn-randall | nemo: They reported that it *didn't* work. |
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| 15:24.58 | nemo | ????? |
| 15:24.58 | nemo | no |
| 15:25.16 | greycat | The original report said it partially-worked in 4.12, and nemo says that upstream says it's fixed in 4.14. |
| 15:25.46 | nemo | greycat: yeah, that nemo is me ⺠|
| 15:25.48 | greycat | right |
| 15:26.04 | nemo | greycat: it looks like this reporter was more active in his kernel bug report |
| 15:26.07 | nemo | rather than the debian one |
| 15:26.08 | petn-randall | nemo: Ok, so does a recent kernel with that option enabled make the touchpad completely work? |
| 15:26.10 | nemo | hang on lemme find it |
| 15:26.19 | nemo | petn-randall: according to the kernel.org bug, yes |
| 15:28.09 | petn-randall | nemo: If you can confirm that by recompiling the kernel and testing it, I'm sure that Ben Hutchings would add it soon. |
| 15:28.10 | nemo | petn-randall: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196985 upstream report resolved fixed |
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| 15:28.57 | nemo | petn-randall: yeah, that's what I was failing hard at - I was asking if by any chance there was a debian build server that I could submit a .deb version and kernel configf |
| 15:29.10 | nemo | petn-randall: hell, if I could build it myself I wouldn't need you guys to update it ⺠|
| 15:29.37 | nemo | if this was my gentoo box I'd feel way more confident, but I'm not familiar with the arcane internals of .deb and my attempt to follow the wiki page(s) did not work out well |
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| 15:30.31 | nemo | there's also https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196863 btw, but the other bug has more meat |
| 15:30.47 | nemo | hmmm ubuntu released a fixed kernel cool |
| 15:30.55 | nemo | maybe I can use theirs |
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| 15:31.08 | nemo | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1732056 (from the kernel bug) |
| 15:31.22 | nemo | interesting. they fixed it in 4.13 |
| 15:32.51 | sd1074 | Hi, I am planning to use my old Lenovo y580 laptop as a long-term home backup server with Debian on it and two 3TB drives connected via USB3. Does anyone have any experience using a laptop as a server? Obviously it does not have a server hardware (no ECC-memory, one processor, etc). |
| 15:33.44 | jelly | if it's cooled well enough and stored safely things might work well |
| 15:33.47 | FinalX | a server is anything that serves clients |
| 15:33.59 | FinalX | so.. whatever works :P |
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| 15:34.10 | sd1074 | On the other hand it even comes with "embedded UPS" :) Any recommendations? For example, I will turn of the gaming grapchis card to reduce power consumption, maybe will remove the DVD drive completely |
| 15:34.17 | nemo | sd1074: gonna guess since it's backup, worst case... it fails. and you plug those 2 3TB drives into something else ⺠|
| 15:34.49 | nemo | sd1074: I do like using laptops as servers - my living room "tv media machine" is a laptop. slim profile, and I can unplug it from TV for trips ⺠|
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| 15:35.24 | jelly | sd1074: make sure you're able to disable power saving features for external drives, models often have aggressive spin-down after like 2-5 idle minutes by default |
| 15:35.27 | greycat | I wouldn't use the word server for a media player, but *shrug* |
| 15:35.29 | sd1074 | nemo, yes, but you know since it's going to be a relatively decent machine, I may decide to actually use it as a web server and more, |
| 15:35.49 | nyov | sd1074: if I send you a raspi for a backup-machine, will you send me the notebook? ;) |
| 15:35.54 | nemo | sd1074: heh. I imagine it's got more than enough oomph - my domain is still running off an old intel atom w/ a gig of ram |
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| 15:36.17 | nemo | nyov: I've been thinking of transitioning to my rpi! it's got better specs than what I'm using now, and would burn a tenth of the power |
| 15:36.22 | jelly | r.pi has really crappy io capabilities, not good for a file/backup server |
| 15:36.43 | sd1074 | I've been using an ras PI type of server for a while, a lot of work with that stuff and constant issues |
| 15:36.46 | nyov | yeah that is sadly true |
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| 15:37.18 | sd1074 | jelly, thanks, didn't think about it |
| 15:38.03 | jelly | your 2015 laptop can push 2x250MB/s to two drives (if you connect external SSDs), your r.pi can't do 200MB/s total |
| 15:38.19 | nemo | jelly: well my network can't do 200MB/s anyway |
| 15:38.23 | nemo | so that's probably not really an issue |
| 15:38.26 | nemo | ok. it *can* |
| 15:38.29 | nemo | but most everyone is on wifi |
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| 15:39.04 | jelly | nemo: 1Gpbs is like 100-120MB/s if you're lucky, but if that's multiplied by two if you're writing to raid1 |
| 15:39.06 | nemo | actually, hm. I bet I'm still on a 100Mb home switch - so no, I can't push that much anyway |
| 15:39.23 | nemo | jelly: sooo, yeah, guess I wouldn't notice the rpi's perf at home - and I'd still cut down on my power bill |
| 15:40.04 | jelly | so 300MB/s total bandwidth. And cheap arm boards just aren't designed for that |
| 15:40.16 | sd1074 | i guess i can also add more memory |
| 15:40.25 | FinalX | newer rpi's have gbit, but it's capped to the usb bus speed, so you'll never reach that either.. plus it's all on one controller, so you can't really sustain the usb bus speed to both a drive and the network either, limiting both |
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| 15:41.12 | FinalX | that said, my rpi in the utility cabinet takes almost 0 space, hanging on the wall.. though it has 4x2TB attached, and is doing Ubuntu 18.04 with ZFS :) |
| 15:41.36 | sd1074 | i am just kinda surprised why i rarely hear about using old laptops as servers. They are low power, come with battery, have all sorts of interfaces. |
| 15:41.53 | nemo | sd1074: I imagine 'cause laptops start failing over time due to the stress of normal use |
| 15:41.56 | FinalX | very, very crappy performance.. but it works. I have a spare laptop too, and thought about it, but takes too much space and electricity (would be a huge bill as opposed to the rpi) |
| 15:42.02 | nemo | sd1074: and then you try to find a new HD and it costs as much as a new laptop... |
| 15:42.05 | jelly | if you get a board with native sata on the SoC you can do better, but a) r.pi is not one of those b) SoC and boards with more that a single SATA port are not found often or are not that cheap |
| 15:42.28 | RoyK | FinalX: how did you connect 2x2TB to an rpi? |
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| 15:42.42 | FinalX | RoyK: 4x, and USB |
| 15:42.57 | RoyK | ok |
| 15:43.13 | RoyK | probably slow, though, compared to a pc |
| 15:43.18 | FinalX | it's holding backup copies of stuff on my colocation, incremental snapshots and such.. so doesn't need to perform well really |
| 15:43.27 | jelly | FinalX: what kind of uptime do you get and how much power does the complete setup pull |
| 15:43.30 | sd1074 | nemo, laptop start failing how? |
| 15:44.02 | FinalX | jelly: no idea about the power, but it's been running for a year now and my electricity bill is lower than what I get back from government subsidiaries for using "green" electricity, so.. :) |
| 15:44.14 | sd1074 | I plan to keep my small SSD inside and connet to 3TB drives via USB, so replcaing them is not an issue at all |
| 15:44.26 | FinalX | it's running well really, just very crappy performance for obvious reasons |
| 15:44.40 | nemo | sd1074: because they get carried around, banged around, they overheat more easily.. |
| 15:45.01 | nemo | sd1074: my mom's would shut down due to overheating every other day 'cause she'd use it on the bed and block fans w/ blankets |
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| 15:45.16 | nemo | had to replace keyboard on my SO's laptop *twice* due to spilled drinks. and it finally failed - probably due to same drinks |
| 15:45.36 | FinalX | my NAS/media server is my colocated server really, so no real NAs-setup running at home.. and with gbit fiber from home, it doesn't really matter where it runs |
| 15:45.38 | nemo | and yeah, if HD isn't SSD, as shock resistant as they are, they eventually run into issues. |
| 15:45.43 | nemo | older ones are less likely to be |
| 15:45.50 | jelly | nemo: "watch the movies on the other side of the bed mom" |
| 15:46.48 | sd1074 | ok, I see |
| 15:47.24 | sd1074 | in fact mine also has a kinda serious problem.. it basically would not charge if turned on with the battery installed |
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| 15:47.52 | bites | sd1074: make sure to put the drives in raid1 |
| 15:48.42 | sd1074 | to make it charge, I have to 1) power it off 2) unplug the charger 3) remove battery 4) plug the charger 5) turn it on 6) put the battery back in |
| 15:48.56 | sd1074 | bites, yes, that's what i plan to do |
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| 16:00.55 | sd1074 | nemo, just saw you msg about SO's laptop. You know if you had to replace the keyboard twice, maybe it's time to replace the SO ;) |
| 16:01.46 | nemo | sd1074: keyboards are cheap ð |
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| 16:03.08 | OxCEA5ED | high! anybody here familiar with the lua-yaml package? or at least knowing why a feature introduced in the upstream package version 6.0 is not there in the debian package 6.1-2 ? |
| 16:03.59 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: the feature was optional perhaps? |
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| 16:04.26 | petn-randall | ,v lua-yaml |
| 16:04.27 | judd | Package: lua-yaml on amd64 -- jessie: 5-1; buster: 6.1-2; sid: 6.1-2; stretch: 6.1-2 |
| 16:04.28 | OxCEA5ED | no? it's a key feature... |
| 16:04.33 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: that's the usual reason why binary X might be missing feature Y, it's a non-critical compile time thing that might be unstable or have a lot of dependencies |
| 16:04.36 | sd1074 | heh, but eventually the laptop failed, then she may crash a car. I had similar experience. Spent an entire nitght to fix her phone and in a few days she just smashed it "accidentally" against a stone. |
| 16:04.40 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: what's the feature? |
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| 16:04.47 | sd1074 | ..sorry for off topic |
| 16:05.06 | nemo | sd1074: perhaps she really wanted a new phone, not a fix ⺠|
| 16:05.17 | OxCEA5ED | yaml.dump() for instance... btw, when i compiled from source, it was compiled in without specifying any option... |
| 16:06.12 | sd1074 | nemo, yours got a new laptop too right? :) |
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| 16:13.00 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: so... I cloned that repo and the dump functionality appears to have been in there since basically, well, forever |
| 16:13.29 | nemo | $ hg grep --all "local function dump" lib/yaml.lua:68:+:local function dump (list) hg log -r 68 Sun Aug 25 21:14:14 2013 +0700 |
| 16:13.36 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: gonna guess this is PEBKAC |
| 16:13.41 | nemo | but will fetch the package and see |
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| 16:14.17 | nemo | I'm only mildly curious about this 'cause unc0rr transitioned some hedgewars config to yaml, and we do use lua ⺠|
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| 16:16.50 | nemo | huh... that's odd |
| 16:17.06 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: the main fail seems to be the package is lacking init.lua O_o |
| 16:17.27 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: I'd say it's a broken package at that point, and should file a bug with the maintainer after verifying adding init.lua fixes things |
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| 16:17.43 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: https://github.com/gvvaughan/lyaml/tree/master/lib/lyaml vs /usr/share/lua/*/lyaml/ |
| 16:17.48 | OxCEA5ED | well... i could compile it here without hassle (when i figured what the lukefile and build-aux/luke were) |
| 16:17.52 | nemo | kinda puzzled how that happened |
| 16:18.06 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: I mean, init.lua is where dump and other things are exposed... |
| 16:18.14 | nemo | but it's not in the .deb |
| 16:18.24 | OxCEA5ED | oh... |
| 16:18.44 | nemo | copying it to /usr/share/lua/*/lyaml would probably fix.. |
| 16:19.10 | nemo | lemme unpack the .deb - it might just be an install config fail |
| 16:19.20 | OxCEA5ED | i will try sooner... since there's still something wrong with my self-compiled version... |
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| 16:20.45 | OxCEA5ED | or i misunderstood something... |
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| 16:21.37 | nemo | huh.. I don't see it in the package at all. that's weird |
| 16:21.39 | ESphynx | hi guys, why does installing libfreetype6-dev:i386 try to remove the 64 bit version? |
| 16:22.30 | petn-randall | ESphynx: Because it's set so in the "conflicts:" field. |
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| 16:23.16 | OxCEA5ED | nemo: what don't you see there? init.lua? it's in lib/lyaml here... |
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| 16:23.35 | ESphynx | petn-randall, I want to have both installed |
| 16:23.49 | greycat | ESphynx: you generally can only have one of each foo-dev package |
| 16:23.57 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: I'm using lua-yaml_6.1-2_amd64.deb |
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| 16:24.01 | ESphynx | greycat, no I always have both 32 and 64 bit versions installed |
| 16:24.20 | greycat | Of the shared libs, sure. Of the -dev package, not normally. |
| 16:24.27 | ESphynx | for these key dependencies we use... always run into issues from time to time but it normalyl works ( and I had it workign on my other Debian system before my laptop died ) |
| 16:24.31 | OxCEA5ED | nemo, so it seems to be a packaging thing... |
| 16:24.37 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: yes indeed |
| 16:24.40 | ESphynx | greycat, the dev as well. |
| 16:24.56 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: it could be related to the fact they added init.lua last year and maaaaybe the packager didn't include it? dunno... |
| 16:25.05 | ESphynx | normally include files should work for any architectures anyway |
| 16:25.29 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: I'm not too strong on debian packaging which is why I'm here in the first place ⺠|
| 16:25.36 | greycat | ESphynx: a -dev package puts a libfoo.so symlink in /usr/lib/ or something, which means this is the library that the linker will pick up. So it's one-at-a-time. |
| 16:25.42 | nemo | but, yeah, lua and yaml was instantly interesting due to Hedgewars |
| 16:26.06 | OxCEA5ED | hedgewars? sound like a game... |
| 16:26.09 | nemo | yes |
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| 16:26.15 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: well lua is often used for games.. |
| 16:26.47 | OxCEA5ED | yeah, and for other apps that need a quick-to-plug-in scripting engine... |
| 16:27.05 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: true true - it has a reputation for being lightweight, simple and fast |
| 16:27.05 | OxCEA5ED | i wonder why the gdb guys didn't use lua and instead opted for python... |
| 16:27.10 | ESphynx | greycat, I don't have a /usr/lib/libpng.so but I have both /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpng.so and /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu and that works just fine |
| 16:27.11 | greycat | Hmm, seems it's no longer a symlink. /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so is a small text file now. |
| 16:27.18 | nemo | all of which are popular for tossing scripting into a game but other things too |
| 16:27.27 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: lot easier to generate bindings than for other things |
| 16:27.39 | ESphynx | -dev packages are a silly idea to begin with. |
| 16:27.55 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: the one thing I like about lua is they have that "end" keyword - python's magic whitespace pisses me off ⺠|
| 16:28.07 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: plus hedgewars engine is written in pascal so "end" isn't too weird to me already ð |
| 16:28.30 | OxCEA5ED | nemo: python has far more serious problems than their indentation-style code blocks :-D |
| 16:28.32 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: their table/hash/array thing messes me up periodically tho |
| 16:28.56 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: probably way off-topic for #debian at this point so I won't continue listing things that annoy me about python |
| 16:29.50 | OxCEA5ED | nemo: when you are into lua, allow me a question please... do you know a method to read in/parse another lua file, in the style of C include? i. e. not via the require() function? |
| 16:30.04 | OxCEA5ED | or we go pm... |
| 16:30.09 | petn-randall | ESphynx: Don't both versions of libfreetype6-dev ship exactly the same files? |
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| 16:30.36 | greycat | I guess the /usr/lib/libfoo.so thing is pre-multiarch, so I was out of date on that. |
| 16:31.25 | ESphynx | petn-randall, I don't know... seems sudo ln -s /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libfreetype.so.6 /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libfreetype.so |
| 16:31.31 | ESphynx | helped me get somewhere... |
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| 16:32.18 | ESphynx | seriously, dev packages are a bad idea. |
| 16:32.28 | nemo | OxCEA5ED: how about joining #hedgewars ? ⺠we can chat there |
| 16:32.33 | ESphynx | symlinks take no room, header files typically take very little room compared to actual library size |
| 16:32.49 | greycat | A lot of -dev packages also include a libfoo.a |
| 16:33.19 | ESphynx | greycat, isn't most things built dynamically ? |
| 16:33.42 | greycat | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4617974 Jan 14 2018 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.a |
| 16:34.18 | ESphynx | libc.a sounds like a core dev package thing... but all the different libraries |
| 16:34.29 | ESphynx | sudo apt-get install gcc-multilib -- should I install that now with multilib? |
| 16:34.59 | greycat | /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng16.a |
| 16:35.00 | greycat | etc. |
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| 16:36.11 | ESphynx | greycat, sounds like something that should be packaged separately? static libraries? that DOES take up space but what if you alwys link shared lbiraries |
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| 16:39.21 | ESphynx | petn-randall, if it ships the same files shouldn't only one exist? :P |
| 16:39.35 | ESphynx | and it failed to setup that symlink |
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| 16:41.26 | ZorroT | how do you su into a non-shell user like mysql user? |
| 16:42.06 | ESphynx | seems I had to do this: sudo ln -s /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libGL.so /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1 |
| 16:42.17 | plujon | How can I install a debug version of vlc? |
| 16:42.18 | ESphynx | every new time I try to set up a 32 bit build environment I run into different issues |
| 16:43.08 | greycat | ESphynx: I would make that a relative symlink instead of an absolute one. |
| 16:43.24 | ESphynx | greycat, right... |
| 16:43.46 | plujon | apt-get install vlc-dbg # doesn't exist... must I compile it myself? |
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| 16:43.54 | greycat | ZorroT: sudo -u username -s |
| 16:43.59 | ESphynx | greycat, it sucks that I have to resort to manual symlinks when Debian is supposed to have a great packaging system |
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| 16:46.12 | petn-randall | ESphynx: I'm guessing there are reasons why it's that way; if not, file a bug report. |
| 16:46.43 | ZorroT | greycat: thank you! |
| 16:46.53 | ESphynx | petn-randall, I would spend all my time filing bug reports. this stuff is always broken differently. multi lib is just not well tested, that's what it is. |
| 16:47.13 | greycat | Looking at the file list for libfreetype6-dev, that /usr/bin/freetype-config looks like a probable culprit. |
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| 16:47.35 | greycat | And .... yes, it's readable text, and it has libdir="/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu" inside it. |
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| 16:48.41 | ESphynx | fontconfig, freetype and gif are all broken can't have both i386 and 64 bit installed. |
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| 16:49.06 | greycat | What you call broken, I call normal and expected. |
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| 16:49.19 | ESphynx | greycat, it's a common use case to want to build for both 32 bit and 64 bit targets on the same development machine. |
| 16:49.43 | ESphynx | and it works for most libraries except those buggy ones |
| 16:49.46 | greycat | I suggest a chrooted 32-bit dev environment. |
| 16:49.57 | ESphynx | I don't like your suggestion. |
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| 16:51.56 | han-solo | i suggest RISCV, i have no idea... |
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| 16:52.13 | ESphynx | greycat, realize that all I'm missing are 3 symlinks in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/ that take no space at all, and you are suggesting to me to waste probably gigabytes of disk space to have a WHOLE entire system. (despite the extra inconvenience) |
| 16:52.14 | ESphynx | come on. |
| 16:52.38 | ZorroT | i'm trying to reset the root password for mysql/mariadb -- the advice on https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/resetting-permissions.html does not seem to work. has anyone else had to do this on debian? |
| 16:52.44 | greycat | I am suggesting a thing because it is a thing you can actually do. |
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| 16:52.58 | greycat | You are suggesting that a magical Debian fairy overhaul everything. |
| 16:53.04 | ESphynx | greycat, well I added the symlinks and I can now build both 32 and 64 bit easily for my same system. |
| 16:53.15 | ESphynx | greycat, I am suggesting that Debian is broken and someone should fix it! |
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| 16:53.21 | greycat | Then file a bug report. |
| 16:53.22 | petn-randall | ESphynx: patches welcome. |
| 16:53.41 | ESphynx | petn-randall, well it's a design issue. someone decided to not include those .so, only the .so.6 |
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| 16:53.54 | greycat | ... now you're just adding more noise. |
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| 16:53.59 | ESphynx | and to bundle conflicting things in the -dev:i386 ... but clearly the .so doesn't conflict. |
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| 16:54.06 | petn-randall | ESphynx: building things on a host system is just a broken development environment. |
| 16:54.08 | greycat | What do you expect *US* to do about it? |
| 16:54.28 | ESphynx | greycat, I am trying to understand what could be done about it. how it could be fixed :) |
| 16:54.34 | greycat | File a bug report. |
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| 16:55.14 | petn-randall | ESphynx: If you want to crossbuild, the recommended procedure is to use a chroot or a VM for that. That's the only way you can be sure that the build environment stays reproducible. |
| 16:55.20 | ESphynx | greycat, I actually will. but I suspect there are hundreds of related bug reports already and I'm not sure it will move things. |
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| 16:55.47 | petn-randall | ESphynx: Many upstream build scripts will enable features if you happen to have certain packages installed that are not required. |
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| 16:56.26 | petn-randall | Well, if there are hundreds of wrong-way drivers on the motorway, what does that say about you? |
| 16:56.34 | ESphynx | petn-randall, I cross-build from my same IDE for 64 bit, 32 bit, Windows, Android, Web Assembly. |
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| 16:59.45 | jelly | ESphynx: not many -dev packages are multiarch compliant |
| 17:01.14 | jelly | I jump similar hoops building nvidia drivers for 64bit kernel on a 32bit-mostly installation |
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| 17:01.29 | ESphynx | jelly, it's painful :P |
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| 17:01.51 | ESphynx | and I have to support users through this process |
| 17:02.04 | ESphynx | which is always running into different problems |
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| 17:03.31 | jelly | see if you can make do with chroot helpers like sbuild/schroot/pbuilder/I really have no idea what's best supported |
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| 17:07.18 | greycat | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec Specifically the section that says "Binary package control fields" |
| 17:08.25 | greycat | libfreetype6 has "Multi-Arch: same" but libfreetype6-dev has no Multi-Arch header at all. |
| 17:09.08 | greycat | wonders why the Multiarch spec is on the Ubuntu wiki instead of the Debian wiki |
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| 17:11.09 | ESphynx | jelly, well all I needed was to add those symlinks for the .so's manually for those -dev:i386 packages that would conflict. |
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| 17:11.45 | greycat | and how does your build system deal with /usr/bin/freetype-config saying x86_64 when you're building for i386? By never using that program? |
| 17:11.56 | ESphynx | greycat, exactly :P |
| 17:12.08 | greycat | But you can see why that doesn't generalize to everyone else. |
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| 17:12.50 | ESphynx | greycat, well of course a proper solution would be ideal :) but in the meantime just having the .so symlinks there automatically would be nice |
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| 17:13.28 | greycat | You mean "in the libfoo package instead of in the libfoo-dev package"? Even though the headers would be missing? |
| 17:14.09 | greycat | You seem to be spending an extraordinary amount of time arguing for a broken band-aid that will help only you, among people who are not in a position to DO ANYTHING about it in the first place. |
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| 17:21.40 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.5 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 17:23.17 | ESphynx | thank you all :) |
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| 17:31.58 | medard | hi |
| 17:32.10 | medard | i have trouble installing debian 9.5 stable on my computer |
| 17:32.28 | medard | which has 2 NVME disks in raid 1 and 2xhdd in raid 1 and one hdd by itself |
| 17:32.51 | medard | installation doesn't detect any drives |
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| 17:56.27 | medard | well, this is helpful.... |
| 17:58.56 | jhutchins_wk | medard: Which installer are you using? |
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| 17:59.38 | nyov | I'd rather ask what his 'raid' is and if it has any kindof free firmware |
| 18:00.34 | jelly | yes, having a raid before the OS is installed raises that interesting point |
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| 18:04.45 | nyov | medard: use a plain SATA (or what have you) connected disk as the bootdisk, |
| 18:05.32 | nyov | then install there, and you can be certain you have a bootable system, which then can go on and load raid-controller firmware for the rest |
| 18:06.43 | medard | It is netinst. I really want to install my system on the raid. Is this possible/ |
| 18:06.53 | nyov | having all disks on the raid controller can be quite inconvenient |
| 18:06.57 | nyov | as you're seeing |
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| 18:07.13 | jelly | nyov: I haven't ever seen a raid controller for local disks with a linux driver that works after firmware load |
| 18:07.14 | nyov | also if the controller dies, everything goes |
| 18:07.39 | jelly | medard: first, what kind of raid controller is this |
| 18:08.36 | jelly | if it's some sort of intel RST, that's fakeraid and you gain nothing by using it in raid mode. Switch it back to AHCI (native) mode |
| 18:08.42 | medard | jelly: some kind of fake controller I think. |
| 18:08.50 | medard | oh |
| 18:08.51 | medard | really? |
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| 18:09.40 | jelly | second, if the hardware is latest generation, Debian 9 kernel might not have drivers new enough to support it at all. |
| 18:10.21 | jelly | medard: if you want people to take a look, boot a linux livecd/liveusb and pastebin the output of "lspci -nn" |
| 18:10.48 | medard | jelly: Hmm, I'm just reading on it. It really seems like I won't benefit at all from nvme raid |
| 18:11.03 | medard | I'll probably just install system on one and do regular backups on other |
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| 18:11.28 | jhutchins_wk | nyov: A hardware raid controller will typically present the array as a single, normal disk. |
| 18:11.29 | nyov | linux has mdadm for soft-raid. it's not so bad |
| 18:11.34 | jelly | raid improves availability. It's not backup. |
| 18:11.49 | nyov | that ^ |
| 18:12.06 | tw | recent mdadm also has support for irst on-disk format. |
| 18:12.10 | jelly | if you want the machine to keep working when a disk dies, you use raid |
| 18:12.12 | nyov | jhutchins_wk: yes, but most don't bring a driver that the debian installer knows about |
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| 18:12.43 | nyov | (AFAIK) |
| 18:12.46 | jelly | if you want your data to be safe from human error or hardware failure, you set up regular backups |
| 18:12.47 | jhutchins_wk | nyov: Good ones do it all in firmware, no driver needed. |
| 18:12.55 | nyov | ok |
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| 18:13.24 | jhutchins_wk | !raid |
| 18:13.24 | dpkg | Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks (RAID) is a system of multiple hard drives for sharing or replicating data. Ask me about RAID{0-5}, <software raid>, <fakeraid>, <megaraid>, <raid-resizing>, <rocketraid>. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_RAID_levels http://wiki.debian.org/LinuxRaidForAdmins |
| 18:13.43 | medard | !raid1 |
| 18:13.43 | dpkg | hmm... raid1 is a single mirrored raid with a minimum of two drives. |
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| 18:13.49 | medard | !raid0 |
| 18:13.49 | dpkg | RAID0 is the wrong choice and the worst solution of several options to solve the same problem (see <LVM>). It is also a misnomer, since the R of RAID is for Redundant, and RAID0 isn't. http://bash.org/?854608 . Ask me about <qotd168>. |
| 18:14.02 | medard | !raid2 |
| 18:14.20 | jelly | !msg the bot |
| 18:14.20 | dpkg | Please have conversations with the bots in a private message as much as possible. Instead of using "!topic" or "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" in the channel, you can just "/msg dpkg topic". See <bot help> and http://wiki.debian.org/IRC/DpkgBot to learn more and browse my factoids on-line at http://ircbots.debian.net/ . Also ask me about <judd>, which is another bot and window into the Ultimate Debian Database. |
| 18:14.27 | medard | oh, sorry |
| 18:14.48 | jelly | I'm going to add a "don't be sorry" to that factoid! |
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| 18:17.13 | annadane | "there are no stupid q- wait, shit" |
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| 18:20.53 | medard | Can softraid handle a drive failure? |
| 18:20.59 | tw | yes |
| 18:20.59 | medard | 1 drive failure |
| 18:21.10 | tw | up to whatever your raid configuration allows. |
| 18:21.24 | medard | raid 1 allows for 1 failure if I understand this correctly |
| 18:21.44 | Habbie | raid1 with two disks allows for 1 failure |
| 18:21.49 | tw | With N disk RAID1, it allows for N-1 failures. |
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| 18:21.52 | SwedeMike | medard: raid1 is mirroring, you can have more than two drives in the mirror, creating more redundancy. |
| 18:22.01 | medard | okay, thanks |
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| 18:23.33 | Kobaz | what's the major differences between rt_preempt kernels and cloud |
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| 18:27.35 | plujon | sudo tcpdump -w foo # permission denied ? |
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| 18:28.35 | jelly | plujon: which debian release? can you show actual command line and output? |
| 18:29.06 | jelly | Kobaz: the cloud probably doesn't care about realtime |
| 18:29.09 | avis | i use linux mint. is that benefical to the most current and good linux that is debian ? |
| 18:29.24 | tw | Kobaz: rt_preempt does just about everything slower, but it response better to interrupt driven task switches (eg, UI responsiveness). cloud always depends on the latest kernel and removes modules/drivers not needed for VMs. |
| 18:29.27 | jhutchins_wk | !mint |
| 18:29.27 | dpkg | Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at http://forums.linuxmint.com/ or join #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>. |
| 18:29.28 | avis | sorry |
| 18:29.34 | greycat | Also, are you in a directory where "foo" can be opened for writing by root? E.g. not on an NFS-mounted file system. |
| 18:30.01 | jelly | avis: it's hard to assess how much downstream distros contribute back to debian |
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| 18:31.29 | n4dir | plujon: while most use sudo as a replacement for su, it is "execute *a command* as another user" So first check with visudo after su how it is configured. |
| 18:31.44 | nyov | tw: that's raid5. don't you mean N-(N-1) ? |
| 18:32.00 | greycat | If it were sudo disallowing the attempt, I'd expect a different error. |
| 18:32.14 | n4dir | then i said nothing. |
| 18:32.30 | greycat | "Permission denied", if that is the literal error (still waiting for confirmation), points to file system permissions. |
| 18:32.42 | plujon | jelly: greycat: Oops, doesn't occur on debian 9; seems to only happen on an Ubuntu machine. |
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| 18:32.59 | tw | nyov: in example, N=3. 3 disk RAID1 can handle 2 disk failures. |
| 18:33.02 | plujon | I'll dig a little further... |
| 18:33.21 | nyov | tw: yep |
| 18:33.25 | tw | which is N-1. |
| 18:33.41 | jelly | plujon: ah, alright, #ubuntu is right next door |
| 18:33.47 | greycat | (and "Operation not permitted" points to other things that you're not allowed to do, that are not related to file system permissions -- e.g. binding to a port < 1024) |
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| 18:34.53 | nyov | tw: ah, N is your failing disks. got it |
| 18:35.08 | tw | don't worry about syntax, we both understand what is going on. |
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| 18:39.29 | plujon | greycat: I also misreported. :-/ `sudo tcpdump -w foo` works fine; `tcpdump -r foo` fails with "Permission denied" (even though foo is world readable). I'll go to #ubuntu now... |
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| 18:41.50 | jelly | plujon: that's completely expected, you can't tcpdump with some root-only privileges |
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| 18:43.35 | plujon | jelly: You shouldn't need sudo to read a tcpdump capture. Debian 9 doesn't suffer from this; but Ubuntu does. |
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| 18:44.46 | jelly | plujon: tcpdump -w is not reading a capture. |
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| 18:45.25 | jelly | ah, you wrote -r |
| 18:45.27 | plujon | jelly: Sorry, I misreported originally, which is confusing. |
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| 18:53.43 | plujon | FWIW, I think it's apparmor's doing. If the file isn't named "foo.pcap", permission is denied on reading. Grr. |
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| 19:01.25 | jelly | "isn't" or "is"? |
| 19:02.13 | jelly | well, I don't care, it's SEP |
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| 19:09.04 | cln | Hello, where I can find source code for previous version of exim4 - exiim-4.80-7 ? |
| 19:09.36 | nyov | in wheezy |
| 19:09.50 | greycat | ,v exim4 |
| 19:09.51 | judd | Package: exim4 on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.80-7+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 4.80-7+deb7u6; jessie: 4.84.2-2+deb8u5; jessie-security: 4.84.2-2+deb8u5; jessie-backports: 4.89-2+deb9u3~bpo8+1; stretch: 4.89-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 4.89-2+deb9u3; sid: 4.89-7; sid: 4.90.1-5; stretch-backports: 4.91-7~bpo9+1; buster: 4.91-7; sid: 4.91-7 |
| 19:10.12 | cln | version 4.80-7+deb7u3 i can download with command - apt-get source exim4=4.80-7+deb7u3 but 4.80-7 (without path) is not abailable |
| 19:10.16 | greycat | yeah, "apt-get source exim4" on wheezy ought to work -- or go to packages.debian.org/exim4 and follow the links to the source |
| 19:10.36 | greycat | ... what? |
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| 19:11.35 | jelly | cln: snapshot.debian.org if you need that exact version |
| 19:11.39 | nyov | is he saying he doesn't want the security patches? |
| 19:12.20 | cln | yep, searching snapshot |
| 19:12.24 | nyov | 'quilt pop -a' in the source should do that? |
| 19:13.28 | cln | http://snapshot.debian.org/package/exim4/4.80-7/ - here it is :) |
| 19:13.35 | cln | jelly: thanks for your help |
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| 19:46.44 | jelly | ,v tomcat |
| 19:46.45 | judd | No package named 'tomcat' was found in amd64. |
| 19:46.48 | jelly | ,v tomcat9 |
| 19:46.49 | judd | No package named 'tomcat9' was found in amd64. |
| 19:48.48 | RoyK | ,v tomcat8 |
| 19:48.49 | judd | Package: tomcat8 on amd64 -- jessie: 8.0.14-1+deb8u11; jessie-security: 8.0.14-1+deb8u11; jessie-backports: 8.5.14-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 8.5.14-1+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 8.5.14-1+deb9u3; stretch-security: 8.5.14-1+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 8.5.33-1~bpo9+1; buster: 8.5.34-1; sid: 8.5.34-1 |
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| 19:54.09 | FightingFalcon | Sometimes this happens: i have a web server running, when i try to connect it refuses to connect to the web site BUT the server is up and running and i can connect via ssh. THat lasts 20 seconds and then it connects again |
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| 19:57.21 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: That's not very clear. What web server? What release of Debian? Do you mean that the web pages are intermittently failing to load, or that the ssh connection reconnects? What error do you get when it fails? |
| 19:58.15 | greycat | It sounds like the web server simply takes 20 seconds more to boot up than sshd does. |
| 19:58.37 | FightingFalcon | I have varnish cache and nginx. its debian stretch... everything works fine but when i try to connect to website it refuses to connect for 20-30 seconds, but meanwhile i can connect to ssh and other functions work |
| 19:58.59 | petn-randall | FightingFalcon: What do the server logs say? |
| 19:59.09 | FightingFalcon | web server log? nothing. |
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| 19:59.54 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: Do you get the expected web page after the delay? |
| 20:00.09 | FightingFalcon | yes i get it after 20 seconds or so |
| 20:00.20 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: Try turning varnish off. |
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| 20:01.12 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: What kind of web page is it? Static HTML, PHP, Drupal, WordPress...? |
| 20:01.12 | FightingFalcon | why? |
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| 20:01.18 | FightingFalcon | wordpress |
| 20:01.33 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: Local mysql? |
| 20:01.40 | FightingFalcon | yes |
| 20:02.13 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: Check your connection to the database, see if you can retrieve data at a normal speed. |
| 20:02.28 | FightingFalcon | When the website fails right? |
| 20:02.43 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: Turning varnish off lets you see if ngnix is delivering the pages normally or not. |
| 20:02.45 | jelly | "why disable X" is usually "as a debugging and isolation method to see if that one component causes something" |
| 20:03.26 | FightingFalcon | if there was a problem with varnish wouldnt it give a related error message? |
| 20:03.48 | FightingFalcon | is there a log of all the connection attemps made to my server? |
| 20:03.58 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: You have mutiple layers - database, PHP code, webserver, cache. You need to determine where the error is, and it's useful to work backwards. |
| 20:04.19 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: Yes. |
| 20:04.47 | FightingFalcon | jhutchins where? |
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| 20:08.29 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: I don't know, I'm an Apache guy, but it's certainly in either the configuration file or the ngnix docs. |
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| 20:08.52 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: You might also do a "troubleshooting ngnix" search. |
| 20:09.25 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: You should also make sure the load on your server is not too high, checking with top and iostat and similar tools. |
| 20:09.40 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: If you're swapping to disk that really kills webserver performance. |
| 20:10.02 | FightingFalcon | i disabled swapping as far as i know |
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| 20:10.11 | FightingFalcon | Swap = 0 |
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| 20:10.33 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: You also want to make sure dns is working, and not (for instance) failing on ipv6 and causing a time-out. |
| 20:10.39 | jolt | you could also try tcpdump or other packet sniffer to see if you can find the culprit by listening in on the traffic flow, and look at tcp handshake etc |
| 20:11.21 | jelly | jumping to tcpdump too soon is really a waste of time |
| 20:11.38 | jolt | also the server-status page of nginx can show how many processes are active, and I assume varnish has something equal |
| 20:11.52 | jelly | you're not going to sniff traffic or trace syscalls until you have no other choice |
| 20:12.07 | jhutchins_wk | Chrome's "Developer Tools" can show you a bar graph of how long each element of the page is taking. Loading elements from third-party servers (ads) can cause that kind of behavior. |
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| 20:12.56 | jolt | a long delay is definitely common for DNS problems, that's for sure |
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| 20:13.37 | jolt | speaking of DNS, nginx has it's own resolver setting, and if that is set differently than the system resolver, then maybe that could be something |
| 20:13.46 | jolt | I'm head to be now, so good luck! |
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| 20:41.15 | TinkerTiger | What is it with these packages that don't recognize when a library is newer than what they are asking for? even if they ask for >=? |
| 20:43.18 | Habbie | TinkerTiger, do you have an example/ |
| 20:43.20 | Habbie | TinkerTiger, ? |
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| 20:44.20 | TinkerTiger | A package is asking for libreadline version 6 and my computer has version 7. |
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| 20:44.41 | TinkerTiger | Or, at least libreadline-dev is version 7. |
| 20:44.59 | greycat | stretch has both rea ..., oh, it's a -DEV package |
| 20:45.12 | greycat | Are you COMPILING something? |
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| 20:45.30 | Habbie | TinkerTiger, but do you have an example of something asking for => and then being unhappy? |
| 20:46.14 | TinkerTiger | Trying to install a package. Specifically wsjt-x. |
| 20:46.30 | greycat | ,v wsjt-x |
| 20:46.32 | judd | No package named 'wsjt-x' was found in amd64. |
| 20:46.35 | greycat | Try again. |
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| 20:47.43 | TinkerTiger | It's not made it to the normal package installer yet. |
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| 20:48.12 | greycat | Why did you mention libreadline-dev? |
| 20:48.49 | TinkerTiger | Because I got that package from a thread about having this problem. |
| 20:49.02 | Habbie | TinkerTiger, can you show us the actual errors/problems? |
| 20:49.02 | greycat | Are you compiling something? |
| 20:49.21 | greycat | ,v libreadline6 |
| 20:49.22 | judd | Package: libreadline6 on amd64 -- wheezy: 6.2+dfsg-0.1; jessie: 6.3-8+b3 |
| 20:49.36 | greycat | OK, strike that first aborted sentence. That's left over from jessie, probably. |
| 20:49.52 | jelly | !bat |
| 20:49.52 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 20:50.02 | jelly | TinkerTiger: can you provide the above ^ |
| 20:50.09 | greycat | I wish we even knew that he's attempting to use apt. |
| 20:50.27 | greycat | Far as I can tell he's trying to install something from a third party. |
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| 20:50.48 | jelly | well, command line and error from dpkg as step 1) followed by steps 2) and 3) would be okay as well |
| 20:51.33 | TinkerTiger | I know how it works. I've just run into this before and I don't understand how it happens. |
| 20:51.47 | TinkerTiger | I was COMPLAINING. |
| 20:51.55 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 20:52.00 | Habbie | we treated it as a request for help |
| 20:52.05 | greycat | I was HELPING. Not any more. |
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| 20:52.18 | TinkerTiger | Thank you greycat. |
| 20:52.23 | Habbie | so you wasted 10 minutes * 4 people of time |
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| 20:53.37 | jelly | TinkerTiger: the support provided in here is more of a technical than psychological kind |
| 20:54.11 | greycat | I still remember that one time we diagnosed someone with an ear infection after he complained of audio problems, though. But that was a one-time thing. |
| 20:54.22 | petn-randall | hahahaha |
| 20:54.37 | jelly | that's still physical not psych! |
| 20:54.39 | TinkerTiger | Heh. |
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| 20:55.57 | TinkerTiger | I am going to do some checking o my own then I will either leave or I will make a serious attempt at resolving my issue, even if it's not something I want to do right now. |
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| 20:57.22 | FightingFalcon | Im an idiot, jhutchins.... I set the max.children of php.fpm to 10... But that wasnt enough. I thought it was but no. I increased the value to 25 and everything is fine now |
| 20:58.12 | jelly | TinkerTiger: perhaps next time address the channel only after you want actual solutions, otherwise you risk a rude kick out |
| 20:58.47 | TinkerTiger | jelly: I already received that message. Thank you. |
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| 21:00.29 | greycat | Or even an answer to a question. "I'm installing a third-party .deb that Depends on libreadline6 and I'm on stretch which has libreadline7. How come it isn't working? Isn't libreadline7 >= libreadline6?" |
| 21:01.17 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: Cool - just don't let it consume all of the resources (PHP is memory intense). |
| 21:01.28 | FightingFalcon | yep |
| 21:01.41 | jhutchins_wk | FightingFalcon: There's an apache tuning script that will calculate that for you, dunno about ngnix. |
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| 21:01.54 | FightingFalcon | im an nginx guy :D |
| 21:01.58 | TinkerTiger | greycat: I already received that message as well. Thank you. |
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| 21:03.16 | CrystalMath | hi |
| 21:03.29 | CrystalMath | why is the backports repository completely empty nowadays? |
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| 21:03.44 | CrystalMath | a long time ago one could get any sid package on stable through backports |
| 21:03.57 | CrystalMath | nowadays, of the 100 packages i needed, 0 were in the backports repository |
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| 21:05.57 | annadane | you can backport your own packages if it's possible, otherwise it's a volunteer effort (like the rest of debian) |
| 21:06.05 | annadane | wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation |
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| 21:06.58 | jelly | CrystalMath: it's not completely empty. |
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| 21:07.29 | jelly | ,v ansible |
| 21:07.30 | judd | Package: ansible on amd64 -- jessie: 1.7.2+dfsg-2; jessie-backports: 2.2.1.0-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.2.1.0-2; stretch-backports: 2.6.3+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.6.4+dfsg-1; sid: 2.6.4+dfsg-1 |
| 21:07.37 | jelly | see, stretch-backports |
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| 21:07.53 | CrystalMath | jelly: yes but... it's much less useful than it was years ago |
| 21:07.54 | greycat | A lot of people use kernels from it, too. |
| 21:08.02 | CrystalMath | i find myself backporting everything myself |
| 21:08.05 | annadane | there's also probably a fair few nix packages for what you want |
| 21:08.18 | jelly | CrystalMath: have you seen autodeb |
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| 21:08.20 | CrystalMath | now i have to backport xserver-xorg-video-openchrome |
| 21:08.31 | CrystalMath | what's autodeb? |
| 21:09.12 | jelly | https://salsa.debian.org/autodeb-team/autodeb > autodeb tries to automatically update Debian packages to newer upstream versions or to backport them. |
| 21:09.29 | CrystalMath | i don't want to do it automatically for all packages |
| 21:09.47 | jelly | you don't have to do it for ALL the packages |
| 21:09.56 | CrystalMath | also, if it compiles them locally, it's not better than backporting myself |
| 21:10.04 | annadane | oh my god jelly that's amazing |
| 21:10.37 | jelly | I'd dare say something keeping track and automatically building newer stuff when it arrives into sid is better than manual backports. |
| 21:10.52 | annadane | i had no idea that existed |
| 21:11.03 | jelly | annadane: GSOC 2018 |
| 21:11.30 | TinkerTiger | For your consideration, I am attemptinto install a third-party pakage using gdebi. This package was supposedly made for Ubuntu but I don't use that anymore. My command is: gdebi wsjtx_1.9.1_amd64.deb and the important output line is: Dependency is not satisfiable: libreadline6 (>= 6.0) Package readlien-common is version 7.1 I would really liek to be able to install this package but is there something |
| 21:11.35 | jelly | I think "Summer" in GSOC is northern hemisphere oriented, so it's really new |
| 21:11.36 | TinkerTiger | Ubuntu specific that is preventing this? I suppose that's speculation, I'm sorry. |
| 21:11.48 | TinkerTiger | I'm in Stretch. |
| 21:11.51 | CrystalMath | jelly: hmm... it also creates packages from things that aren't packaged? |
| 21:12.06 | jelly | TinkerTiger: show ALL the info the bot asked for, not just what you think important |
| 21:12.19 | jelly | !basic apt troubleshooting |
| 21:12.19 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 21:13.18 | jelly | CrystalMath: I did not take a good look yet, but often automation can be applied to newer releases of upstream. |
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| 21:14.05 | jelly | TinkerTiger: the output asked for in steps 2. and 3. can often provide enough clues to solve or understand the situation |
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| 21:14.51 | jelly | ,v libreadline6 |
| 21:14.52 | judd | Package: libreadline6 on amd64 -- wheezy: 6.2+dfsg-0.1; jessie: 6.3-8+b3 |
| 21:15.31 | awal1 | When my system , bcoz of heavy use, appeals swap, it slows of course; but why after closing the heavy programs I see that ram use is minimal but system still slow . relogin to X doesn't help; I must reboot :( |
| 21:15.48 | CrystalMath | what's that package which has dget? |
| 21:16.01 | jelly | CrystalMath: /msg judd file bin/dget |
| 21:16.11 | CrystalMath | devscripts |
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| 21:16.48 | petn-randall | awal1: It still takes time for it to swap back in. |
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| 21:18.07 | TinkerTiger | This issue is not currently resolvable. Thank you. Be well. |
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| 21:18.43 | awal1 | petn-randall, ah, ok |
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| 21:19.02 | awal1 | next time i'll wait and see if it become normal |
| 21:19.05 | jelly | yeah, best noone tell them to pick old libs from old releases to be able to install old packages |
| 21:20.54 | jelly | awal1: you can force the issue by doing "swapoff -a && sleep 1 && swapon -a" but swapoff is not very efficient |
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| 21:21.40 | acxty | Hi guys, I have several scripts that connect to a mysql db. One pid is getting more than 100% cpu capacity. I only have the PID using htop but want to know what script is running. On the command information I only get that is /usr/sbin/mysql.... how can I find out which script is it? |
| 21:21.55 | jelly | (it's horrible, absolutely unoptimized and doing random i/o in tiny page-sized bits) |
| 21:22.45 | awal1 | jelly , good, i will try that next time, thanks |
| 21:23.30 | jelly | acxty: if you have a mysql client open, "show processlist" |
| 21:23.46 | jelly | acxty: or try mytop |
| 21:23.59 | jelly | (mytop has its own package) |
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| 21:34.13 | Neobenedict | hi |
| 21:34.19 | Neobenedict | why do i get Cannot exec 'avs2yuv': No such file or directory when trying to run it in a screen |
| 21:34.26 | Neobenedict | it is defined as a function in .bashrc |
| 21:34.27 | Neobenedict | like so |
| 21:34.42 | Neobenedict | function avs2yuv() { WINEDEBUG=-all WINEPREFIX=/usr/share/avs2yuv/.wine wine /usr/share/avs2yuv/avs2yuv_x86.exe "$@"; } |
| 21:35.09 | petn-randall | Neobenedict: Does it work outside of screen? |
| 21:35.10 | Neobenedict | ye |
| 21:35.39 | petn-randall | Neobenedict: I'm guessing your .bashrc just doesn't get sourced. |
| 21:36.10 | petn-randall | Neobenedict: Try running "source ~/.bashrc" in the screen and test if it works then. |
| 21:36.45 | Neobenedict | it works when in the screen |
| 21:36.52 | Neobenedict | but if i type "screen avs2yuv" it doesnt work |
| 21:39.38 | petn-randall | Neobenedict: Does it work *in* screen after typing "source ~/.bashrc"? |
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| 21:39.51 | Neobenedict | it works in screen without typing that |
| 21:40.17 | Neobenedict | and with typing too |
| 21:40.23 | Neobenedict | but it doesnt work w hen starting the screen which is what i need |
| 21:40.32 | petn-randall | Neobenedict: Oh, "screen avs2yuv" should execute that command directly in the screen, right? Yes, that doesn't work. |
| 21:40.40 | Neobenedict | so how do i make this work? |
| 21:40.51 | Neobenedict | i need a 1 liner to do it |
| 21:41.00 | petn-randall | Neobenedict: Write a proper shell script to do it. |
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| 21:41.16 | Neobenedict | can i just do screen bash -c or something |
| 21:41.22 | petn-randall | Neobenedict: Or find a way to trick screen into reading .bashrc before executing that command. |
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| 21:49.00 | Neobenedict | petn-randall: ok this works, but i have a new problem. |
| 21:49.08 | Neobenedict | my command is screen avs2yuv -depth 10 test.avs - | x264 |
| 21:49.13 | Neobenedict | however this pipe is outside the screen |
| 21:49.18 | Neobenedict | how do i pipe to a new process inside the screen |
| 21:49.31 | Kelsar | write a script, call that |
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| 21:49.58 | Neobenedict | well i need to be able to set command line options for both avs2yuv and x264 |
| 21:50.12 | Kelsar | you probably can make it work with bash -c, but honestly a script is easier |
| 21:50.43 | Neobenedict | is it, though? |
| 21:51.21 | Neobenedict | ok screen bash -c works |
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| 22:06.03 | hans__ | why does rng-tools try to create a daemon? |
| 22:07.11 | bites | ,i rng-tools |
| 22:07.13 | judd | Package rng-tools (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: Daemon to use a Hardware TRNG. Version: 2-unofficial-mt.14-1+b2; Size: 42.1k; Installed: 121k |
| 22:07.18 | bites | well... |
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| 22:07.30 | hans__ | lel k |
| 22:08.50 | hans__ | i just wanted the `rngtest` binary, and thought `-tools` didn't sound like a daemon package, so.. ye |
| 22:08.56 | hans__ | w/e |
| 22:09.25 | hans__ | can i ask it if `rngtest` is provided by any other package? |
| 22:10.13 | bites | ,file bin/rngtest |
| 22:10.18 | judd | Search for bin/rngtest in stretch/amd64: rng-tools: usr/bin/rngtest; rng-tools5: usr/bin/rngtest |
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| 22:10.27 | hans__ | thanks |
| 22:11.40 | bites | no problem. rng-tools5 seems to be the same things, though this time with a systemd unit instead. |
| 22:11.43 | hans__ | hah, rng-tools5 doesn't start any daemon! (unlike rng-tools), just what i wanted ^^ |
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| 22:11.49 | hans__ | ah daw |
| 22:11.53 | bites | haha |
| 22:12.08 | hans__ | at least `apt install` didn't tell me about any daemon during installation |
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| 22:12.35 | bites | just stop and disable it if you don't want it to run. |
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| 22:13.24 | hans__ | and how do i disable a systemd unit? |
| 22:13.53 | bites | systemctl stop rngd; systemctl disable rngd |
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| 22:14.47 | hans__ | Removed /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/rngd.service. |
| 22:14.49 | hans__ | neat, thanks |
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| 22:30.55 | brw | .bef |
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| 22:57.09 | moaz | hello |
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| 22:57.57 | moaz | did the developers of debian/kFreeBSD simply replace the kernel, or did they have to edit userspace software significantly to make it compatible with the new kernel? |
| 22:59.53 | YesMan | Hey I'm having performances issue with cinnamon windows, which are quite laggy in debian 9.5. However the issue is not present in Jessie 8.11 Live I just tried. Is there an easy way to find out the differences that could cause strecth to be less performant? |
| 23:01.00 | YesMan | Also it takes ages to load from lightdm to the actual desktop |
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| 23:50.57 | sZbcE8qNfG | anyone using openvpn + samba combination on their smartphone with LTE? |
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| 23:58.17 | armin | sZbcE8qNfG: tinc/peervpn here, does that count? |
| 23:58.36 | sZbcE8qNfG | what's tinc? |
| 23:58.42 | armin | tinc-vpn.org |
| 23:58.42 | sZbcE8qNfG | is that a vpn provider? |
| 23:58.45 | armin | no. |
| 23:58.47 | sZbcE8qNfG | oh ok |
| 23:58.49 | armin | i don't use any providers. |
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| 23:59.02 | sZbcE8qNfG | i'm trying to see how flaky openvpn is over a bad LTE connection |
| 23:59.03 | armin | i use vpn technology, yes, but i don't trust third partys there. |
| 23:59.17 | armin | depends if you move or not |
| 23:59.30 | sZbcE8qNfG | i got a long commute and listen to music on my home server (samba + openvpn)....some patches of highway are deadzones for LTE connections |
| 23:59.32 | armin | also, define "bad". |
| 23:59.50 | armin | did you try sshfs? |