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| 00:15.51 | ajrs | https://paste.debian.net/1049455/ |
| 00:15.53 | ajrs | help |
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| 02:18.51 | zumba_addict | i'm good |
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| 02:28.23 | agio | does russia have copyright? |
| 02:29.19 | agio | like if you started pirating books, movies etc in russia, could you get sued? |
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| 02:47.47 | COOurb | back |
| 02:48.09 | COOurb | agio: only if you sharing these stuff |
| 02:48.15 | COOurb | downloading - legal |
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| 02:50.34 | annadane | torrents are both uploads and downloads |
| 02:50.39 | annadane | if you download something you begin seeding it |
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| 03:01.17 | Zborg | how would I prevent a device with Manufacturer: hakchi from being recognized as a rndis_host device? |
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| 03:21.20 | COOurb | annadane: too hard for cops |
| 03:22.32 | COOurb | And most addresses from blacklist (yeah, in Russia we have such thing) are simple http, not torrent-trackers |
| 03:22.38 | COOurb | most == all |
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| 03:32.52 | zumba_addict | folks, i need libvirtd. How do I get it installed? |
| 03:33.13 | annadane | ,v libvirtd |
| 03:33.14 | judd | No package named 'libvirtd' was found in amd64. |
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| 03:33.34 | zumba_addict | i'm following this thread - https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube/issues/867 |
| 03:33.56 | zumba_addict | the solution the guy did is install kvm |
| 03:33.59 | zumba_addict | how do I do that? |
| 03:34.10 | annadane | oh well kvm should just be apt install kvm |
| 03:34.17 | annadane | ,v kvm |
| 03:34.18 | judd | Package: kvm on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:1.1.2+dfsg-6+deb7u12; wheezy-security: 1:1.1.2+dfsg-6+deb7u25 |
| 03:34.20 | annadane | errr |
| 03:34.22 | annadane | nooope. |
| 03:34.25 | zumba_addict | ok, i'll try i tnow |
| 03:34.30 | annadane | sorry. one sec. |
| 03:34.33 | zumba_addict | oh ok |
| 03:34.36 | zumba_addict | thank you |
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| 03:35.20 | annadane | the thing is, your question really depends on more than "how do i install a package in the archive" which is usually apt install foo |
| 03:35.30 | annadane | it depends on whatever that thread recommends which may or may not solve your problem |
| 03:35.39 | zumba_addict | k |
| 03:36.01 | annadane | so libvirtd and kvm are all virtualization things; kvm itself is not a package but it's a component of virtualization technologies |
| 03:36.38 | annadane | there's libvirt-daemon, which is closest, i guess, but it's kinda hard for me to follow a thread without knowing what the problem is; is it your thread? |
| 03:37.09 | zumba_addict | yup, it's installing it |
| 03:37.19 | annadane | if not, do you have exactly the same problem as the poster of the thread? if not, what actual problem are you trying to solve? |
| 03:37.21 | zumba_addict | not my thread, i just found it |
| 03:37.24 | zumba_addict | yes |
| 03:37.29 | annadane | okay |
| 03:37.38 | annadane | fair enough. sorry, i'm also quite tired right now |
| 03:37.45 | zumba_addict | it's ok :) |
| 03:38.57 | annadane | well at least they install minikube into /usr/local and not some insane other place |
| 03:39.20 | zumba_addict | yup |
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| 03:39.40 | annadane | beyond the usual "don't blindly use sudo on github projects" but let's assume i guess it's trustworthy even though it usually goes against best practices |
| 03:39.58 | annadane | let me actually *read* the thread... |
| 03:40.03 | zumba_addict | found the solution. - https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube/blob/master/docs/drivers.md#kvm-driver |
| 03:41.38 | annadane | i do *not* know that much about virtualization. it's possible i'm wrong, but maybe it gets the ball rolling for others to answer |
| 03:42.42 | annadane | i'd rather be slightly wrong and give general, non destructive advice, compared to just having the question completely ignored especially now when everyone else is asleep |
| 03:43.44 | annadane | ah, ok, that link recommends libvirt-daemon-system |
| 03:44.03 | zumba_addict | i think it's working now. I'm installing kvm2 |
| 03:44.17 | zumba_addict | i'm also starting it this way - minikube start --vm-driver kvm2 |
| 03:44.35 | zumba_addict | had a warning earlier saying kvm is deprecated |
| 03:45.05 | annadane | but yeah, "kvm" apparently isn't a package, it's part of a technology that other packages use |
| 03:45.11 | zumba_addict | got it |
| 03:45.23 | annadane | based on my very uneducated opinion |
| 03:46.05 | annadane | good luck getting better answers at this time, if unsatisfied try again tomorrow or use the mailing lists *shrug* |
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| 03:49.12 | zumba_addict | this worked too --vm-driver=none :) |
| 03:49.20 | annadane | i'd probably just put it in .local/share/applications rather than use sudo for a github project (you give it a lot of trust), but whatever |
| 03:49.22 | zumba_addict | looks like I really don't need vm just like docker containers |
| 03:49.31 | zumba_addict | will do |
| 03:49.54 | annadane | (that's per user, i don't know if you want it system-wide) |
| 03:50.05 | annadane | i'm going out for a few minutes |
| 03:51.31 | annadane | tons of github pages will say sudo install blah blah and it's like... your product may be completely fine but it kind of violates the point of privilege seperation and trust |
| 03:51.45 | annadane | i always always use tar archives and things like that when applicable |
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| 03:59.59 | zumba_addict | hmm, I can't find libvirtd.service in /etc/systemd/system and /usr/lib/systemd. Are there other places? |
| 04:00.15 | zumba_addict | systemctl status libvirtd does show status |
| 04:00.34 | zumba_addict | lol, Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/libvirtd.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) |
| 04:00.57 | zumba_addict | is /lib/systemd the default in Stretch? |
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| 04:02.37 | mason | zumba_addict: yes |
| 04:02.47 | zumba_addict | got it |
| 04:03.10 | zumba_addict | what system could that be that I was at? It was in /usr/lib/systemd/system |
| 04:03.15 | zumba_addict | centos, fedora? |
| 04:03.38 | mason | zumba_addict: RHEL uses /usr/lib/systemd/system |
| 04:03.45 | mason | So probably CentOS, yes. |
| 04:03.45 | zumba_addict | cool, thanks! |
| 04:04.05 | mason | zumba_addict: Note that on RHEL, /lib is a symlink to /usr/lib. |
| 04:04.17 | zumba_addict | gotcha |
| 04:04.20 | mason | So you're safe talking about /lib/systemd/system everywhere. |
| 04:04.55 | zumba_addict | thanks again :) |
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| 04:08.11 | Penguin | Can someone please explain to me why the files inside the chromium-widevine package don't match the file list provided at https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/chromium-widevine/filelist ? |
| 04:08.35 | Penguin | It doesn't make any sense to me. |
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| 04:13.31 | agio | does anyone know how to make apt list the packages which are marked with an action , e.g upgrade or install? |
| 04:16.50 | annadane | not sure i understand the question |
| 04:18.22 | annadane | there's apt list --upgradable... |
| 04:18.49 | agio | thats just the packages with a newer version available |
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| 04:19.18 | agio | if I under right, apt "marks" packages with a pending action |
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| 04:20.28 | Penguin | Probaly use dpkg-query instead of apt. |
| 04:21.28 | Penguin | Maybe dpkg --get-selections is helpful? |
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| 04:25.19 | n4dir | i'd probably just do apt-get upgrade -s, and get the list that way. |
| 04:25.32 | n4dir | but then: i never had the need for such a list. |
| 04:25.38 | agio | Penguin: thanks, that works |
| 04:26.53 | agio | n4dir: yeah, that works too, thanks |
| 04:27.25 | n4dir | --simultate is more easy to remember, -s is faster to type. |
| 04:27.41 | n4dir | probably a typo, hence i use -s ... |
| 04:29.49 | agio | does anyone know if this upgrade to firefox-esr version 60 is being forced on us? what I mean is, it seems to me suddenly out of nowhere - If I run these commands like `apt-get upgrade --simulate' apt/dpkg is reporting all this dependey problems around firefox-esr, but I never asked for the upgrade - I don't think? |
| 04:30.18 | agio | debian would never do that right? |
| 04:30.35 | agio | thats _very_ undebian like |
| 04:31.12 | n4dir | agio: you are a bit late though. The upgrade of firefox in debian stable sure happened a few weeks ago. . |
| 04:31.59 | n4dir | And i don't remember any dependency problems (neither experienced myself, not read about it somewhere). |
| 04:32.47 | agio | n4dir: when you say "upgrade" you mean: the new version of firefox-esr was uploaded to the apt repository, but its still up to us to choose whether we want to install or not right? |
| 04:33.27 | n4dir | Sure, but isn't that always the case? If you don't upgrade, you don't upgrade? |
| 04:34.08 | agio | right - so it must have been me that marked the firefox package for upgrade then, I guess... |
| 04:34.48 | n4dir | well: apt-cache update ; will probably make that happen. |
| 04:36.08 | agio | you mean apt-get update? surely not? that should only refresh the local package lists? |
| 04:36.27 | n4dir | sorry, confusion, just awoke, yes, you are right. |
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| 04:36.50 | n4dir | agio: gotta say i don't really understand you. I did never mark any packages for upgrades or such. |
| 04:37.02 | n4dir | apt-get update; apt-get upgrade; apt-get dist-upgrade |
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| 04:38.27 | n4dir | what will get upgraded happens kinda automatically (assuming i ran apt-get update). |
| 04:39.04 | n4dir | action on the user side is only required if a package shall not be upgraded. for example. |
| 04:39.10 | agio | n4dir: yeah then what happens if your internet goes down during the upgrade - apt will remember your selections and try to re-apply them at a later time |
| 04:39.40 | n4dir | depends when the internet goes down. But yes, sounds right. |
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| 04:41.20 | n4dir | though again: i for one did never select anything. |
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| 04:41.38 | acidtripper | The D in Systemd stands for 'Dammmmit!' A nasty DHCPv6 packet can pwn a vulnerable Linux box |
| 04:41.41 | acidtripper | "" |
| 04:41.46 | acidtripper | did someone read that article? |
| 04:42.30 | acidtripper | A buffer overflow vulnerability in the dhcp6 client of systemd allows a malicious dhcp6 server to overwrite heap memory in systemd-networkd. Affected releases are systemd: versions up to and including 239. |
| 04:42.38 | n4dir | agio: you mainly want to understand what is going on, or you got an actual problem ? |
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| 04:43.08 | agio | n4dir: I got a problem, |
| 04:43.09 | n4dir | if the former: you can go very deep down that rabbit hole, but i sure am not the right person to speak about such. |
| 04:44.31 | acidtripper | more to love systemd and poettering |
| 04:44.33 | acidtripper | :D |
| 04:44.58 | Milkshake | who would acquire debian? |
| 04:46.10 | acidtripper | hahaha is not for sale |
| 04:46.40 | agio | n4dir: I just want to unmark all those packages |
| 04:46.41 | Milkshake | do you allow mass migration from other guys? |
| 04:47.05 | acidtripper | but, will be benefited from this ibm melt |
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| 04:47.13 | acidtripper | topic is.. who'll buy canonical |
| 04:47.19 | Milkshake | google |
| 04:47.31 | acidtripper | mmm |
| 04:47.33 | acidtripper | microsoft |
| 04:47.34 | acidtripper | :D |
| 04:47.46 | n4dir | agio: you don't want to upgrade them? Then simply don't run apt-get upgrade (pretty sure that is a bad idea). So hold the ones you don't want to upgrade |
| 04:47.49 | n4dir | !hold |
| 04:47.49 | dpkg | hold is a status flag that tells the package manager to not automatically upgrade a package. To hold a package 'echo $package hold|dpkg --set-selections' or 'aptitude hold $package'. Note that "aptitude hold" is ignored by other package managers (i.e. Update Manager, synaptic, apt-get) and aptitude won't necessarily use holds set with dpkg; see Debian bug #137771 (fixed in stretch). See also <hold list>, <unhold>. |
| 04:48.05 | acidtripper | is there any patch for this systemd bug? |
| 04:48.09 | acidtripper | out there? |
| 04:48.19 | rant | which systemd bug? |
| 04:48.36 | rant | oh that dhcp6 thing? |
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| 04:48.49 | acidtripper | yes |
| 04:48.54 | acidtripper | as i see is not ready yet |
| 04:48.55 | rant | its a one line fix, already solved upstream.. and doesnt effect you more than likely |
| 04:48.59 | acidtripper | i was checking security |
| 04:49.14 | acidtripper | solved when? |
| 04:49.18 | agio | n4dir: not hold, again that explicitly marks the packages to be "held" (I think) there is another way to just remove any current pending actions |
| 04:49.19 | acidtripper | is nothing published |
| 04:49.36 | rant | it was fixed upstream two days ago |
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| 04:50.09 | acidtripper | rant, why i don't se anything on security page |
| 04:50.13 | acidtripper | or upgrade |
| 04:50.13 | agio | and in security.debian.org/debian-security strectch-updates? |
| 04:50.14 | acidtripper | from apt |
| 04:51.14 | n4dir | agio: not sure if apt-cache clean; will help then. But with that solution (which one ever) you will never again be able to upgrade. So setting the packages you sure don't want to upgrade on hold seems like the "correct" solution. |
| 04:51.36 | rant | acidtripper: are you even using systemd-networkd? |
| 04:51.43 | rant | its not enabled by default in debian |
| 04:51.59 | agio | n4dir: apt-cache clean - do you know what that does? |
| 04:52.00 | n4dir | aptitude has quite some voodoo skill, also know as supercow power. The bad news: i don't know aptitude ... |
| 04:52.02 | rant | you're probably just being annoyingly concerned about something that doesnt even apply to you |
| 04:52.54 | rant | acidtripper: because IT WAS FIXED UPSTREAM that doesnt mean it was fixed in Debian,. because DEBIAN DOESN'T USE IT |
| 04:53.53 | n4dir | rant: as far i hear it can be enabled in debian, and people do it. Hence i would assume that it is or will be fixed in debian too ... |
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| 04:54.14 | acidtripper | systemd-networkd is in repos |
| 04:54.32 | acidtripper | or im wrong? |
| 04:55.14 | themill | sure, it is going to be a lower priority than other bugs for the volunteers who do security uploads, however. |
| 04:55.28 | agio | n4dir: also, I think you meant `apt-GET clean' right? |
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| 04:55.55 | n4dir | agio: bare with me. You are correct. |
| 04:56.16 | agio | n4dir: you're still waking up right? |
| 04:56.33 | agio | :) |
| 04:56.41 | acidtripper | it should be fixed as soon as posible. can't have software with that kind of bugs in repo |
| 04:56.44 | acidtripper | my thoughts |
| 04:57.00 | n4dir | agio: :-) (and worse, i got no quick way to run the command right now). Anyway: look here, for example: https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/2017/10/09/how-to-clean-the-apt-cache/ |
| 04:57.13 | themill | acidtripper: there are lots of security bugs to be fixed. They get triaged by severity and a significant part of that is whether they are actually used or not. |
| 04:57.21 | n4dir | sounds as if that is what you ask for, though i still am stubborn and say: you will rather want !hold |
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| 04:58.08 | acidtripper | themill, ok.. but as they said were a few lines, woulnd't be so trivial to rebuild it, test and release |
| 04:58.43 | themill | acidtripper: that doesn't make it higher priority than other bugs or suddenly make time for people to do this |
| 04:58.56 | acidtripper | ok |
| 04:59.19 | acidtripper | themill, is there any way to access that bugs an it's priority? |
| 05:00.12 | themill | there would normally be notes at https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2018-15688 |
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| 05:01.35 | acidtripper | thanks |
| 05:01.53 | acidtripper | maybe on 9.5 |
| 05:02.08 | rant | its not a few lines its like a few chars.. on a single line.. first you need to BREATHE then you need to ask yourself 1) do I even use systemd-networkd and if the answer is yes, and you really care about a bug that is unlikely to even be a security risk in reality.. fetch the source, apply the diff from upstream, and rebuild the package |
| 05:02.26 | rant | if you really want help on how to do this, then just ask that, not get all worked up about why we havent fixed something nobody uses |
| 05:02.43 | n4dir | agio: assume apt-cache clean does what you want. As soon you run apt-cache update again, to check for security updates, that approach wouldn't work anymore. And i would say: one doesn't want to ingore security upgrades. Sorry, i can't put it any clearer. |
| 05:02.59 | acidtripper | sry 9.6 |
| 05:03.39 | acidtripper | rant, ?? can't i ask a question? |
| 05:03.56 | acidtripper | it's part of the repo |
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| 05:04.17 | acidtripper | and as it's part of the repo must be fixed. who you are to decide if it's used or not by users? |
| 05:04.35 | acidtripper | i can do it but i don't know where i cant talk |
| 05:04.44 | acidtripper | to ask and give the package |
| 05:05.23 | acidtripper | that was the main idea to build the package and help |
| 05:05.24 | rant | you are getting way too excited about a damn one line bug in something not used that was only DISCOVERED two days ago |
| 05:05.39 | rant | a bug that has no real possibility of being exploited |
| 05:06.12 | rant | it merely doesnt check the length of the data, allowing a malicious ipv6 dhcpd to write extra data to the heap |
| 05:06.43 | acidtripper | ahah not excited. it can be exploited with dhcp server, so it's possible to exploited. so if we are going to discuss a bug instead of fixing it we're going in a bad direction |
| 05:06.52 | n4dir | acidtripper: i assume you would write a bug-report and include the patch as a possible solution. Assuming there isn't already an existing bug report, then append the patch there. |
| 05:06.58 | acidtripper | bugs must be fixed, indepeent from your thoughts |
| 05:07.08 | rant | 1) you have to actually be using systemd-networkd, 2) you have to have a malicious ipv6 dhcpd, 3) something needs to actually act on the extra data.. or the worst that can happen is a buffer overflow that will result in the dhcp client / networkd crashing |
| 05:07.33 | rant | yes and we fix bugs.. you're acting like its outrageous that this isnt fixed yet |
| 05:07.45 | acidtripper | isn't something critical to attack a dhcp client and take a server out of net? |
| 05:07.48 | rant | if you really care that much rebuild the damn package and forward it to the maintainer with the fix |
| 05:08.25 | acidtripper | ok, don't be in that defensive way. |
| 05:08.44 | acidtripper | same way systemd developer acts when they discover bugs.. |
| 05:08.45 | rant | you're missing the big picure of how totally insignificant this bug is |
| 05:08.56 | acidtripper | insignificant or not |
| 05:09.00 | rant | and yes it should be fixed.. thats why it was fixed |
| 05:09.40 | rant | if you got issue with why debian hasnt imported a totally insignificant fix you either got problems you need to see a therapist about, or you should become a DM and help out |
| 05:09.47 | rant | cause thats what it comes down to.. time management |
| 05:09.59 | rant | there are far more important things to worry about than this |
| 05:10.16 | acidtripper | therapist or just stop using systemd... |
| 05:10.23 | acidtripper | for example which important things? |
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| 05:11.05 | acidtripper | same thing happened with specter they took long time to fix it. when almost every distro had patched it. and same attitude... install unstable kernel was the answer |
| 05:11.33 | acidtripper | is not the idea. and of course if i can help in any way i'll do it |
| 05:12.19 | acidtripper | as i see is fixed, just have to be pushed |
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| 05:20.18 | rant | not important |
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| 05:20.58 | rant | lets say you're running a startup with a very lucrative webserver.. it uses this networkd.. I write a malicious dhcpd.. still not important |
| 05:21.04 | rant | because you're not getting your dhcp from me |
| 05:21.12 | rant | I gotta hack your router and dhcp server first |
| 05:21.55 | rant | and even still after that monumental feat, the threat is still minimal especially if you just have stuff that is build into nearly every cpu and OS these days to prevent crap like this |
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| 05:22.53 | rant | even if buster releases in a few months with this bug.. you still have nobody to blame but yourself for being the only one who seems to care and doing nothing to help out |
| 05:23.30 | rant | but today.. mere hours after discovery of this insigificant bug. to be spending days going on about it when it would take minutes to fix.. is just ridiculous |
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| 05:25.37 | rant | if your stance is how to fix it for you, we can help with that.. its trivial.. if your issue is how debian does things, you;re in the wrong channel |
| 05:29.28 | n4dir | any talk including systemd never ends well ... (never starts well either). Eveyone seems so touchy. |
| 05:29.52 | n4dir | it was way worse a year ago though. |
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| 05:32.20 | rant | yeah.. well I hated systemd at first, now I'm ok with it.. its just I been hearing this crap about this irrelevant bug for over 24hrs now and its annoying |
| 05:32.52 | rant | we're here to support debian issues, and this user doesnt seem to want a solution to anything just to get all worked up about something that is irrelevant |
| 05:33.05 | n4dir | rant: yup, i read it, the actual thing here too, and i am already tired of it. |
| 05:33.50 | rant | it was a mere formality even issuing a CVE on this |
| 05:34.00 | rant | absolutely no-one is taking it seriously.. |
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| 05:36.27 | n4dir | got you. I mainly wanted to say: i try hard to stay out of any discussions involving systemd. There is hardly ever a useful result (i mean: this goes back and forth for years now, pretty much always with the same content/arguments/etc). |
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| 05:38.01 | n4dir | same is valid for other subjects too, though, so if we get rid of that, we got the next problematic subject (apt-get verus aptitude, gnome versus kde, and what not). |
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| 05:42.48 | rant | I only chimed in cause I heard it enough already and its just bein disruptive.. making me look in here, and if anyone asked a valid support question I missed it because of all the nonsense about the dumbest CVE ever issued |
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| 05:45.41 | rant | if we actually shipped a distro that used that by default, and it were something with an above 1% chance of actually causing any sort of harm, it'd be different |
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| 05:54.03 | verblendet | funny: "now using systemd, and rc.local is now considered a service which is turned "off" by default." ... BUT cant we also consider systemnd offers a well documented proper replacement for rc.local before disabling essential services people used to use for decades? |
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| 07:02.57 | radkos | I'm back |
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| 07:39.27 | nezos | Two questions: 1) Anyone knows how much time I have to switch to nftables from iptables? I read the message and it seems that it should be done very soon 2) With iptables I was using iptables-save to make the rules permanent, is there such a tool for nftables? |
| 07:42.48 | jelly | nezos: kernel does not break existing APIs quickly or lightly. You probably have like 5 years. |
| 07:43.09 | jelly | nezos: which message did you read? |
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| 07:43.11 | hexer22 | 5 yrs ? |
| 07:43.19 | jelly | give or take |
| 07:43.27 | hexer22 | Oh |
| 07:43.33 | nezos | jelly the message during the upgrade with apt |
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| 07:43.49 | jelly | upgrade from what to what? |
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| 07:44.03 | hexer22 | Which distro do u use ? jelly ? |
| 07:44.04 | nezos | apt update |
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| 07:44.35 | nezos | it created legacy versions of iptables |
| 07:44.37 | jelly | apt update just reads repo contents. |
| 07:44.49 | nezos | apt update -> apt upgrade |
| 07:45.03 | jelly | nezos: on which debian release? |
| 07:45.07 | hexer22 | say "nano /etc/apt/sources.list" |
| 07:45.11 | nezos | unstable |
| 07:45.16 | jelly | ah |
| 07:45.20 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 07:45.20 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 07:45.26 | radkos | if i want to send logs (filtered by program name) to external central rsyslog server do i need to define this into clients server or in central server 'programname, isequal, myprogram -?dynmyprogtemplate' is enough? |
| 07:45.35 | nezos | ok thanks jelyl |
| 07:45.35 | jelly | got me worried there for a second |
| 07:45.48 | hexer22 | metoo |
| 07:45.54 | nezos | sorry had to be more specific |
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| 07:46.09 | hexer22 | !debian-next ? |
| 07:46.09 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 07:46.29 | hexer22 | What is it ? |
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| 07:46.40 | jelly | it's just what it says. |
| 07:46.53 | hexer22 | What does it say ? |
| 07:47.03 | hexer22 | Info ? |
| 07:47.17 | jelly | hexer22: do you not see the response from "dpkg" bot? |
| 07:47.28 | hexer22 | noooo |
| 07:47.35 | hexer22 | Which bot ? |
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| 07:47.51 | nezos | dpkg (nickname) is a bot |
| 07:47.52 | dpkg | okay, nezos |
| 07:48.06 | hexer22 | nezos: oh |
| 07:48.07 | jelly | dpkg, forget (nickname) |
| 07:48.08 | dpkg | i forgot (nickname), jelly |
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| 07:48.35 | hexer22 | Something like chanserv ? |
| 07:49.51 | jelly | hexer22: http://wiki.debian.org/IRC/DpkgBot to learn more |
| 07:50.25 | jelly | not going to be a lot of help if you don't even see its messages at all for some reason |
| 07:50.51 | hexer22 | I am on a tor network |
| 07:51.09 | hexer22 | Maybe thats y i dont see the bot |
| 07:51.20 | hexer22 | 'S messagea |
| 07:51.21 | jelly | unlikely, the bot is responding on the same channel you're writing to |
| 07:51.33 | hexer22 | I get it |
| 07:51.46 | hexer22 | Maybe it need a working ip or node |
| 07:51.54 | jelly | that's not how irc works |
| 07:52.01 | hexer22 | Idk man |
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| 07:52.40 | hexer22 | jelly: what distro r u using ? |
| 07:52.50 | jelly | we're in #debian, what do you think? |
| 07:53.07 | hexer22 | I mean under debian |
| 07:53.20 | hexer22 | I mean debian based os |
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| 07:54.11 | jelly | hexer22: well, Debian is Debian, derivatives based on Debian are not Debian any more for the purposes of this tech support channel |
| 07:54.35 | jelly | I'm writing this from a Debian 9 workstation |
| 07:54.41 | hexer22 | Oh |
| 07:54.48 | hexer22 | Nice ? |
| 07:55.02 | jelly | and I'm late for work... |
| 07:55.07 | jelly | !offtopic |
| 07:55.07 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
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| 07:55.55 | jelly | > <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. |
| 07:55.58 | hexer22 | How much people can this irc take ? |
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| 08:25.48 | Milkshake | any stats for how much people download debian today? |
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| 08:28.45 | PaddyF | Milkshake: maybe you find the right numbers here: https://wiki.debian.org/Statistics |
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| 08:32.07 | PaddyF | !grub-pc |
| 08:32.07 | dpkg | GNU GRUB 2 is a portable and powerful boot loader. Ask me about <grub config> and <grub default>. To reinstall, ask me about <fixmbr>. http://wiki.debian.org/Grub2 #grub on irc.freenode.net. See also <grub legacy>. |
| 08:32.10 | PaddyF | !grub2 |
| 08:32.10 | dpkg | GNU GRUB 2 is a portable and powerful boot loader. Ask me about <grub config> and <grub default>. To reinstall, ask me about <fixmbr>. http://wiki.debian.org/Grub2 #grub on irc.freenode.net. See also <grub legacy>. |
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| 08:40.07 | jim | PaddyF, are you trying to put grub on your machine? if so... do you boot legacy or uefi? |
| 08:41.37 | PaddyF | jim: this uefi/efi topic needs more reading, i dont fully understand it |
| 08:41.59 | PaddyF | on the other machine i want to setup chainloading |
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| 08:42.14 | PaddyF | it has no net |
| 08:42.48 | jim | can you give it net temporarily if necessary? |
| 08:43.05 | PaddyF | in theory, yes. but it would break my security agenda :P |
| 08:43.17 | jim | ok |
| 08:44.19 | PaddyF | on the other side, when i give it up in 5 days or just now .... |
| 08:44.32 | jim | is there another way for you to transfer files to it? (you might be able to use apt-zip) |
| 08:45.17 | PaddyF | one moment please, i think about it while i go for a smoke |
| 08:45.28 | jim | ok |
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| 08:52.27 | PaddyF | okay, i put a net on that box. so i need to look at some data first |
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| 09:19.37 | jim | PaddyF, ok, what is it exactly you want to do |
| 09:19.39 | jim | ? |
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| 09:20.38 | PaddyF | i cant explain, its too much. and its unsorted |
| 09:21.05 | PaddyF | other things add to that, e.g. a new ubuntu install crashed after switching the workplace |
| 09:22.01 | jim | ok, what's one thing you want to do? |
| 09:22.04 | PaddyF | i hope you did not wait for me |
| 09:22.41 | jim | (I thought the net might be handy if you needed to install packages) |
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| 09:23.32 | PaddyF | yes |
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| 09:24.01 | jim | also... if we're not talking about actual debian (ubuntu instead for example), we might have to move |
| 09:24.22 | PaddyF | no, its okay. i mentioned it as example |
| 09:24.37 | jim | ok |
| 09:24.38 | PaddyF | unless its illegal to have other distros next to debian :P |
| 09:25.23 | jim | no, what they get grumpy about, is when questions are asked about other dists |
| 09:25.32 | jim | it's because... |
| 09:25.45 | PaddyF | yep, i understand |
| 09:25.55 | jim | while they might be derived from debian, they're otherwise different |
| 09:26.25 | PaddyF | they better have their own channel or web forum |
| 09:26.25 | jim | so answers which would normally be applied to debian might not work on other-dist |
| 09:26.36 | jim | right |
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| 09:27.28 | jim | if they did allow the other dists, they'd have to understand them all, and that's not very scalable |
| 09:27.45 | PaddyF | yes :) |
| 09:28.20 | jim | so I guess one thing I saw is you want to get grub working? |
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| 09:29.04 | jelly | that's a good technical, but there are also social reasons why we actively point users of derivatives to their respective support channels |
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| 10:11.59 | radkos | any idea on how to escape ^M kinda characters in rsyslog |
| 10:12.11 | radkos | any rsyslog option to enable/disable? |
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| 10:26.49 | jim | radkos, what are you trying to do with the log file? |
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| 10:35.56 | jelly | radkos: they ought to be escaped by default? |
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| 10:37.11 | jelly | radkos: logger $'dis just\none message'; grep dis /var/log/user.log | tail -n 1 |
| 10:37.28 | jelly | Oct 29 11:36:23 burek jelly: dis just#012one message |
| 10:38.24 | hexer22 | jelly: whats this ? |
| 10:39.27 | jelly | hexer22: this is a tech support channel for Debian distribution |
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| 10:40.33 | hexer22 | jelly: not this channel , the command that u typed aboue |
| 10:40.39 | hexer22 | Ve* |
| 10:41.07 | jelly | hexer22: that was for radkos |
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| 10:41.43 | hexer22 | jelly : whats does that command do ? |
| 10:41.59 | jelly | hexer22: man logger |
| 10:42.17 | hexer22 | jelly: man logger ? |
| 10:42.36 | hexer22 | jelly: explain plz |
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| 10:42.56 | jelly | hexer22: yes, instead of asking me what "logger" does, you can look up its documentation on your own. man command opens manual pages |
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| 10:43.33 | hexer22 | jelly: thank you for your explanation |
| 10:43.39 | hexer22 | Lol |
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| 10:44.09 | sh00p | I am using rsyslogd and logrotate, so naturally I have these /var/log/foo.log, foo.log.1.gz, foo.log.2.gz and so on.... If I unpack foo.log.1.gz using gunzip, I get a foo.log.1, but then logrotate stops working... It appears it cant rotate foo.log since there is already a foo.log.1 |
| 10:44.23 | sh00p | Does anybody know of a setting that will not inhibit the rotations? |
| 10:44.39 | jelly | sh00p: why do you want to unpack old logs? |
| 10:44.44 | jelly | uncompress* |
| 10:44.50 | sh00p | jelly, to look at them |
| 10:45.02 | sh00p | I've realized now its better to copy them to somewhere else, and then unpack, and inspect |
| 10:45.03 | jelly | sh00p: use zless, zgrep |
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| 10:45.39 | jelly | or uncompress to stdout and pipe the output to desired tools |
| 10:45.47 | sh00p | jelly, ok, I didn't know of these utilities... I can learn to use them, but is there no 'fool-proof' way? |
| 10:45.47 | jelly | gzip -dc foo.gz | less |
| 10:46.45 | jelly | sh00p: there are many ways to shoot yourself in the foot, leaving unusual files around as root is one |
| 10:46.49 | hexer22 | what is the use of piping it to less ? |
| 10:46.56 | hexer22 | Jelly ? |
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| 10:47.41 | hexer22 | theraspberry : hi |
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| 10:48.01 | jelly | hexer22: less shows text contents one page at a time. Apps like that are called "pagers". Less is a pager. |
| 10:48.07 | theraspberry | hi |
| 10:48.37 | BCMM | hexer22: less allows you to page through the output easily. if the output is very long, then not using less will mean the file just scrolls off the top of your terminal at lightning speed |
| 10:48.39 | hexer22 | jelly: ohk |
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| 10:49.13 | hexer22 | BCMM: thanks for the info |
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| 11:08.06 | strk | I'm lost with the update-alternatives command, can you help ? I want gnome-www-browser alternative to point to /opt/firefox/firefox |
| 11:08.18 | strk | I'm tempted to do this manually but knowing there's a command tells me I should use it |
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| 11:08.31 | strk | what I tried: update-alternatives --set gnome-www-browser /opt/firefox/firefox |
| 11:08.34 | strk | which returned: |
| 11:08.38 | strk | update-alternatives: error: alternative /opt/firefox/firefox for gnome-www-browser not registered; not setting |
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| 11:08.58 | strk | then I seeked for "register" in update-alternative(1) manpage, but found nothing :( |
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| 11:27.18 | bachler | have you checked /etc/alternatives? |
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| 11:29.03 | strk | yes, for doing it manually I would have done it there |
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| 11:29.23 | strk | anyway, now I did it manually and still have problems with desktop, maybe one of those things "update-alternatives" would do, additinoally to the symlink ? |
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| 11:30.13 | strk | interesting, there's a README in /etc/alternatives |
| 11:30.22 | strk | all it says is to "read the update-alternatives(8) man page" |
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| 11:30.35 | strk | but: No manual entry for update-alternatives in section 8 |
| 11:30.41 | strk | it is in section 1 ... :/ |
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| 11:35.59 | bachler | hm, yeah that README seems wrong then. Altho, im on buster, and my /etc/alternatives/README refers to update-alternatives(1) |
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| 11:36.56 | strk | this is Debian GNU/Linux 9.1 (stretch) |
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| 11:37.22 | strk | anyway the manual symlinks did work in a sense (sensible-browser now correctly starts firefox) |
| 11:37.45 | strk | BUT, Mate still thinks the preferred browser is Chromium, not even seening the presence of Firefox, which I installed from binary package downloaded from mozilla.org |
| 11:37.52 | strk | how to I teach that to Mate ? |
| 11:38.10 | strk | do I need a .desktop file referenced by /home/share/applications/gnome-mimeapps.list ? |
| 11:38.21 | strk | and, how do I trigger re-reading that file from desktop after editing it ? |
| 11:38.35 | bachler | hmm, now that I think about it I probably have the same issue but for xfce4 and firefox/chrome but on arch |
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| 11:39.20 | bachler | will need to look into this to solve that as well |
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| 11:39.30 | strk | it looks like dropping a firefox.desktop file in the appropriate place did it |
| 11:39.42 | strk | /home/share/applications/firefox.desktop |
| 11:39.50 | bachler | interesting |
| 11:39.53 | strk | I copied it from the firefox-esr package, just changed the path |
| 11:40.04 | bachler | So it is working as you expect now then? |
| 11:40.40 | strk | almost fully |
| 11:40.44 | strk | the important thing ye |
| 11:40.52 | strk | I can click on terminal URLs and it will open firefox now |
| 11:40.59 | strk | what's still not working is the icon |
| 11:41.04 | strk | the .desktop file references icon by name |
| 11:41.06 | strk | not full path |
| 11:41.24 | strk | so now I've to figure out how to either add the /opt/firefox/<whatever> to the path searched for icons |
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| 11:41.29 | strk | OR copy the icon to appropriate place |
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| 11:42.08 | bachler | Globally: /usr/share/icons/ or in your home folder : ~/.local/share/icons |
| 11:42.11 | bachler | perhaps |
| 11:42.21 | strk | I have /opt/firefox/browser/chrome/icons/default/default{16,32,48,64,128}.png |
| 11:42.29 | strk | a symlink would do you think ? |
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| 11:42.41 | strk | (and I guess they must be called "firefox.png" in global dir ?) |
| 11:43.02 | strk | the /usr/share/icons/ dir is full of subdirs |
| 11:43.08 | PaddyF | somebody on a chat said that /etc/hosts.deny and /etc/hosts.allow are deprecated. but he ignored my question about the successor. could you tell me, please? |
| 11:43.37 | bachler | yeah, I would try and figure out what it needs to be named (maybe path as well) and then symlink it into my local icons path. |
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| 11:45.36 | bachler | PaddyF: What are you trying to achive? |
| 11:46.01 | PaddyF | i dont want to publish my securing efforts |
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| 11:47.36 | bachler | ok, I understand, anyway, I would point you in the direction of, iptables, probably, perhaps ufw |
| 11:48.11 | PaddyF | somebody said they can walk around iptables |
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| 11:48.24 | bachler | I for one, would trust iptables more than hosts.allow. |
| 11:49.05 | PaddyF | thats why i planned to use mutliple techniques |
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| 11:50.37 | bachler | ok, I dont think I have ever used hosts.allow and hosts.deny. When I want to restrict access I usually use iptables. |
| 11:50.51 | PaddyF | yes |
| 11:50.59 | bachler | If you have IPv6, dont forget ip6tables as well |
| 11:51.09 | PaddyF | roger |
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| 11:59.51 | strk | FYI: :/usr/share/icons/mate/48x48/apps# ln -s /opt/firefox/browser/chrome/icons/default/default48.png firefox.png; update-icon-caches /usr/share/icons/* |
| 11:59.54 | strk | worked |
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| 12:00.05 | bachler | cool. |
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| 12:39.43 | plouescat | Hey guys, can I ask here to troubleshoot a wifi issue? i get an answer from the kernel "IPv6 ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP) WLP2s0 link is not ready" |
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| 12:43.11 | Brigo | plouescat, if you are using debian this is the channel where you should ask. |
| 12:43.52 | plouescat | I am and I do then :) |
| 12:43.54 | Brigo | plouescat, that message is not an error. |
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| 12:44.42 | Brigo | plouescat, it is just telling the wlp2s0 is not connected with the ap. |
| 12:44.52 | plouescat | it's working fine with my router at home but as soon as I'm trying to connect to another wifi it's failing |
| 12:44.58 | Brigo | how are you trying to connect? |
| 12:45.59 | plouescat | the GNOME network manager |
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| 12:46.54 | Brigo | plouescat, is there any more logs? you could check journalctl -b for logs from boot time. |
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| 12:47.20 | Someguy123 | I'm trying to debootstrap from ubuntu, but I'm having a problem: https://dpaste.de/pgQV |
| 12:47.35 | Someguy123 | following this: https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap |
| 12:47.55 | Someguy123 | debootstrap'd debian stretch (amd64) using the repo on that page |
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| 12:48.11 | themill | why do you want dselect? |
| 12:48.15 | jelly | Someguy123: which ubuntu, which version of debootstrap, why do you care about dselect? |
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| 12:48.46 | Someguy123 | ubuntu 18.04, debootstrap 1.0.95ubuntu0.1 (from apt) |
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| 12:48.58 | Someguy123 | jelly: I'm just following the guide on the wiki :P |
| 12:49.37 | themill | about time to turn the brain on rather than blindly copy+pasting, then |
| 12:49.38 | jelly | Someguy123: dselect there is just a placeholder for "use any package manager, like apt or aptitude or whatnot" |
| 12:49.41 | Someguy123 | I'm just trying to install debian stretch onto the disk from ubuntu 18.04 live server (because that's the only thing I'm able to PXE boot onto this server) |
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| 12:50.19 | jelly | themill: perhaps they are lucky and have no idea what dselect is, at all |
| 12:50.22 | radkos | if my rsyslog tag is lets say apt[history] how in the output template i can place it as %PROGRAMNAME%/%syslogtag%.log where %syslogtag%== history |
| 12:50.35 | radkos | i would like to extract the part which is in brackets |
| 12:50.44 | Someguy123 | jelly: huh, I assumed dselect was the script to set up apt and the repos |
| 12:50.59 | Someguy123 | I haven't touched debian for a long time, but I need it for proxmox |
| 12:51.22 | Someguy123 | and I'm limited to ubuntu for netbooting these servers, so gotta debootstrap |
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| 12:52.57 | Someguy123 | jelly: themill so I assume after debootstrap, really all I have to do is set up grub |
| 12:53.02 | plouescat | @Brigo I might see something |
| 12:53.05 | Someguy123 | unsure if debootstsrap actually installs a kernel |
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| 12:55.12 | plouescat | it's emitting a warning right before registering "bridge firewalling" |
| 12:55.28 | n4dir | pretty sure it doesn't install a kernel. There might also be other things missing you need, check if they are installed after "chroot" Someguy123 |
| 12:56.08 | plouescat | bridge: filtering via ARP/ip/IPC6 is no longer available by default |
| 12:56.16 | Someguy123 | yeah boot is empty, so no kernel |
| 12:56.29 | Someguy123 | and no fstab so I guess I need to set that up |
| 12:56.30 | n4dir | probably the task "standard", for example (you probably will want that, i can't remember about debootstrap, but it really is very minimal9 |
| 12:56.49 | Someguy123 | it's been too long since I did anything like this, fond memories of my gentoo and slackware days |
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| 12:57.20 | n4dir | Someguy123: i sure ran in more detailed how-to's bout installing via debootstrap. The wiki page is a bit dense. |
| 12:57.25 | Someguy123 | I've dealt with plain old ubuntu on my servers for so long, and OSX on the desktop, I've gotten rusty at building linux installs from recovery environments |
| 12:58.11 | plouescat | also avahi-deamon is failing to loaf (chroot.c open() failed no such file) |
| 12:58.41 | n4dir | !debootstrap |
| 12:58.42 | dpkg | debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap |
| 12:58.57 | Someguy123 | ah, thanks for the article |
| 12:58.57 | n4dir | Someguy123: might be the last link has a bit more detailed info. |
| 12:59.14 | Brigo | plouescat, i should see the entire log for understand what is happening. Can you paste it in paste.debian.net? |
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| 13:01.58 | Someguy123 | what networking system does debian stretch use? |
| 13:02.12 | BCMM | Someguy123: ifupdown and/or networkmanager |
| 13:02.15 | Someguy123 | there's so many these days that I never know where the network config is on each system I deal with |
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| 13:02.38 | Someguy123 | so it does use the classic network/interfaces |
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| 13:03.10 | BCMM | Someguy123: /etc/network/interfaces is there. by default, anything not explicitly listed there will be handled by networkmanager |
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| 13:03.41 | Someguy123 | does debian use enp2s0 or eth0? |
| 13:03.43 | BCMM | (as opposed to previous setups where it might have been dhcp by default in interfaces |
| 13:04.03 | Someguy123 | I mean DHCP would work in this case, we have a DHCP server which also hands out static IPs |
| 13:04.28 | BCMM | there's absolutely nothing stopping you from removing networkmanager (or never installing it, if your doing something minimal like debootstrap) and doing stuff with /etc/network/interfaces same as ever |
| 13:05.14 | Someguy123 | logging into one of our native proxmox systems, it appears it might be eth0 |
| 13:05.21 | Someguy123 | instead of the ubuntu enp2s0 |
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| 13:06.34 | BCMM | Someguy123: i have good old "unpredictable" network names on Sid |
| 13:06.54 | PaddyF | lets start a new distro that does not use network manager |
| 13:07.18 | Someguy123 | BCMM: hmmmmmmmm |
| 13:07.23 | jelly | !proxmox |
| 13:07.23 | dpkg | Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial ##proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support |
| 13:07.29 | BCMM | PaddyF: that's already debian. |
| 13:07.49 | Someguy123 | jelly: I'm aware, I'm only asking support for the base debian setup |
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| 13:08.02 | Someguy123 | once I have debian set up, I can deal with the proxmox part |
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| 13:08.24 | n4dir | BCMM: pretty sure that you will not get networkmananger if you disable "desktop" during tasksel, usual installation. |
| 13:08.25 | Someguy123 | I'm stuck using ubuntu recovery so I have to install debian by hand, and then put proxmox on top of that |
| 13:08.58 | BCMM | "You can install Proxmox VE either on your hardware from USB or CD-ROM using our ISO image, or alternatively on top of an existing Debian installation." ah ok, that actually is a thing then |
| 13:09.03 | PaddyF | !live |
| 13:09.04 | dpkg | The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. These can be used to install a Debian system. Live images are available from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ . http://live.debian.net/ #debian-live on irc.debian.org. See also <live firmware>. For Debian 8 "Jessie", you CANNOT install in <UEFI> mode from a Debian Live image. See <live stretch>. |
| 13:09.12 | Someguy123 | BCMM: yes, yes it is |
| 13:09.32 | Someguy123 | I'm forced to use ubuntu to install debian because we use MAAS for deployments and haven't gotten a licence yet |
| 13:09.36 | radkos | any idea on how i can use $!metadata!filename into file location at rsyslog |
| 13:09.37 | radkos | ? |
| 13:09.43 | Someguy123 | the catch of MAAS community edition, is that you are only able to install ubuntu |
| 13:09.52 | BCMM | is this a debian-derived distro that just has an extra repo on top of stock debian, instead of feeling the need to reinvent everything? |
| 13:09.56 | Someguy123 | so dirty hack - boot ubuntu recovery and debootstrap :) |
| 13:10.02 | BCMM | perhaps the world isn't completely insane yet |
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| 13:10.20 | Someguy123 | BCMM: proxmox is a virtualisation system, it uses debian base, but ubuntu kernel AFAIK |
| 13:10.43 | Someguy123 | so it's sort of a hybrid setup |
| 13:10.49 | BCMM | Someguy123: debootstrap isn't particularly dirty really. it's quite a nice way of getting a minimal install to build on top of |
| 13:11.08 | BCMM | reminds me of the best parts of gentoo |
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| 13:11.19 | Someguy123 | BCMM: in this case it's dirty because I'm skipping around the fact MAAS expects me to pay for it to install non-ubuntu systems :) |
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| 13:12.01 | Someguy123 | we will be paying for it soon, but still trying to make sure it actually works for what we need |
| 13:12.41 | plouescat | hey sorry I got disconnected. I'm still trying to troubleshoot my Wi-Fi. i'm at the coffee shop so I can only connect with my android |
| 13:13.04 | Someguy123 | and he's gone again :P |
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| 13:16.57 | zhangj | KDE global shortcuts don't work，Does anyone know this reason? |
| 13:17.51 | zhangj | I can't use ALT+F2 ,Any global shortcuts |
| 13:18.04 | zhangj | what should I do? |
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| 13:19.29 | Someguy123 | BCMM: what's the package name for the debian kernel? |
| 13:19.45 | zhangj | How can I find the log of KDE's global shortcut invalidation? |
| 13:19.52 | BCMM | Someguy123: linux-image-amd64 (for example) |
| 13:19.54 | Someguy123 | is there anything I need to install for mdadm software RAID + LVM to work? |
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| 13:20.47 | Someguy123 | BCMM: got it :) |
| 13:21.05 | BCMM | Someguy123: you should be looking at something like https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/apds03.html.en |
| 13:21.21 | Someguy123 | ah, that looks like a much better guide |
| 13:21.22 | BCMM | Someguy123: the debootstrap wiki page is only good for setting up a chroot basically |
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| 13:23.28 | Someguy123 | BCMM: thanks for that link, the wiki should really link to this |
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| 13:23.53 | BCMM | Someguy123: perhaps it should, but on the other hand, that *is* the first document you should be reading if you're installing debian |
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| 13:26.16 | zhangj | Regarding the KDE global shortcuts are not responding, how should I view this log? |
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| 13:28.57 | Someguy123 | BCMM: knowing I had to use debootstrap, the first thing I googled was debian debootstrap |
| 13:29.01 | Someguy123 | and landed on that wiki page |
| 13:29.26 | Someguy123 | I had assumed that the debian install guide would only cover a normal live cd install |
| 13:29.34 | Someguy123 | since debian isn't gentoo or arch |
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| 13:34.05 | n4dir | Someguy123: usually a live CD isn't used for installing debian, and i am pretty sure that a lot of people recommend highly against using the liveCD for installing. |
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| 13:35.37 | BCMM | n4dir: what's wrong with using the installer included in Debian Live? |
| 13:35.48 | papemco | i used a live cd and no problem |
| 13:36.29 | n4dir | BCMM: it was known to not work well. I don't know any more details than that. |
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| 13:38.12 | n4dir | some recommend so wildly against it, that i am astonished they didn't edit the factoid mentioned above. Perhaps others see it different. |
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| 13:39.53 | papemco | n4dir, is this the case even for debian 9.5? or earlier versions? |
| 13:40.55 | BCMM | i assume this position must be at least a bit controversial, from the fact that debian continues to ship "live install" images |
| 13:41.00 | BCMM | and encourage their use on the website |
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| 13:41.12 | n4dir | papemco: as far i know that is the usual recommendation, and it is still valid (for 9.5 too). It was only a sidenote. Sooner or later you will run in it here, and can ask for details then. |
| 13:41.37 | papemco | bien |
| 13:42.07 | n4dir | papemco: and you sure are not the only one who has got good experience (well: from what i hear). |
| 13:43.08 | papemco | n4dir, well, i dont know!! but i have never found any issue!! what issues are common with it? may be i dont pay attention to them? |
| 13:43.55 | n4dir | papemco: really sorry, i don't remember more. |
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| 13:44.20 | n4dir | greycat is sure among the people who had their say on the subject. |
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| 13:45.01 | AquaL1te | sup debian community! thank you for being here :) now that ibm has taken over redhat i'll probably keep an eye on this channel and project activities. first impression of debian 9 is much better than in the past. then i couldn't remove gnome-games without removing gdm was well :) now i can (y) |
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| 13:53.28 | RandomSerb | what do I need to do in my sublime_text.desktop so that it's recognized as a text editor? |
| 13:54.02 | mad_moses | Hi, I would like to see if this package is installed on my debian system. Can I do this without a root access? libapache2-mod-wsgi-py3 |
| 13:54.25 | n4dir | apt-cache policy <pkg-name> mad_moses |
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| 13:54.54 | jelly | mad_moses: or dpkg -s packagename, or dpkg -l packagename, lots of ways |
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| 13:55.02 | mad_moses | thx |
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| 13:56.28 | RandomSerb | MimeType=text/plain; doesn't help |
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| 13:59.34 | Fox | RandomSerb: maybe you'll find inspiration out there https://gist.github.com/AnwarShah/29aab7367980311cc866 |
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| 14:06.47 | RandomSerb | Fox, /usr/share/applications/defaults.list doesn't exist on debian stretch |
| 14:07.54 | greycat | ,file usr/share/applications/default* |
| 14:07.58 | judd | No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file. |
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| 14:09.18 | RandomSerb | on the other hand, using MimeType editor (xfce4) works just fine |
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| 14:10.01 | pragomer | I created a desktop-starter for a bash script, I am under stretch with cinnamon desktop. My .desktop-File is this one: https://pastebin.com/RCCvaugw |
| 14:10.30 | pragomer | I can start the program from terminal, but there is no starter with the icon in cinnamons menu. any idead what I did wrong? |
| 14:11.36 | RandomSerb | actually it doesn't :/ |
| 14:12.27 | RandomSerb | pragomer, make sure to use proper category |
| 14:12.51 | RandomSerb | type should be application, if I'm not wrong |
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| 14:13.47 | pragomer | it is application, or not? |
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| 14:17.44 | AquaL1te | i would like to explore the possibility to do some package development for debian. at the moment i'm doing fedora stuff, there they have an amazing tool called 'mock': https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/wiki is there a similar tool for debian developement? mock creates a chroot for isolated build environments (also for different release tracks) |
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| 14:19.20 | n4dir | pbuilder, i guess, but i think there are even more. AquaL1te |
| 14:19.50 | pragomer | is it possible that desktop starters dont work for bash scsripts? |
| 14:20.31 | AquaL1te | n4dir: nice! i'll check it out! i also saw sbuild. and of course, i'll check the debian maintainers guide. but this is just quick and dirty exploration :) |
| 14:20.35 | greycat | AquaL1te: there are a few Debian devs here who might answer, but there are more of them in the #debian-mentors and #packaging channels on the OFTC network. |
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| 14:21.04 | AquaL1te | greycat: nice! |
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| 14:26.36 | n4dir | AquaL1te: besides lots of info you will find in the debian wiki, this site also has quite some tips: https://raphaelhertzog.com/debian-packaging/ |
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| 14:36.07 | Someguy123 | https://dpaste.de/t8eN |
| 14:36.11 | Someguy123 | has anyone ran into this before? ^ |
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| 14:36.43 | Someguy123 | at first I thought I had to make the partition bootable, but googling tells me that GPT partitions don't have boot partitions |
| 14:36.51 | Someguy123 | I have a 200mb EFI system partition on each disk |
| 14:36.57 | Someguy123 | and I have /dev/sda1 mounted to /boot/efi |
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| 14:38.37 | Someguy123 | hm, maybe I need grub-efi |
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| 14:40.30 | Someguy123 | yeah no, installing grub-efi didn't solve it https://dpaste.de/cQt0 |
| 14:41.43 | Someguy123 | judging by the physical volume errors, I think it might be getting upset about the fact that it's inside of a chroot, and I used MAKEDEV, so the LVM devices for / don't exist |
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| 14:43.28 | Someguy123 | ah, I see the problem, sda2 is missing from my mdadm device o_O |
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| 14:51.23 | AquaL1te | which rss feeds are recommended for debian to keep in the loop? i already have dpn (debian project news), are there any others (besides security stuff) |
| 14:52.54 | annadane | not rss but do subscribe to debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org |
| 14:53.36 | annadane | yeah i guess you said besides security stuff. still good to know |
| 14:53.37 | PaddyF | AquaL1te: feed readers like liferea have a few examples added. like the debian planet |
| 14:54.09 | PaddyF | i think slashdot is in there, too |
| 14:54.39 | AquaL1te | annadane: i prefer to use apt plugins to notify me of security stuff :) filters out all the stuff that i don't use anyway. PaddyF: i use the rss app from nextcloud, but i'll have a look at the suggestions in liferea |
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| 15:00.40 | hiroshi | Hello folks. is anybody using xen + xen-tools in debian 9 ? I'm trying to create a pvhm vm but I don't know where is the option in xen-tools or xen wiki |
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| 15:01.51 | hiroshi | xen-create-image --help = no info about pvhm , by default it will create a vm "type": "pv" |
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| 15:03.54 | Penguin | Why would the actual contents of a package be different from the filelist on packages.debian.org? |
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| 15:04.16 | greycat | The file lists on the web page are known to be incomplete. I don't know why. |
| 15:05.06 | Penguin | It's not that it's incomplete; it's just wrong. |
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| 15:05.51 | Penguin | I installed the chromium-widevine package and it doesn't contain the plugin file. The filelist for the package on the website shows that the plugin file is included, but it's wrong. |
| 15:07.54 | annadane | why has firefox-esr suddenly started, when opening a new tab, not putting the text input thing in the address bar? in other words, to be able to immediately type in a url without clicking on it |
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| 15:08.48 | annadane | it's also possible it was like that before and i just didn't realize it |
| 15:08.57 | greycat | annadane: I just tried it now; I pressed Ctrl-t and then started typing in the URL bar, and it worked for me. |
| 15:08.58 | Fox | Penguin: and what does "dpkg -L chromium-widevine" show ? |
| 15:09.13 | greycat | annadane: perhaps you've changed some setting or installed some add-on |
| 15:09.14 | opv | hi all, i have a question. a package installs a binary with permissions 0755. I want the binary to have permissions 0750, so I chmod it. But as soon as the package receives an update, the binary's permissions are back to 0755. How can I remedy this situation, so that I still get updates, but the permissions remain 0750? thanks |
| 15:09.22 | Penguin | Fox: It shows the actual contents of the package I installed, which does not include the plugin file. |
| 15:09.54 | annadane | i think an extension got updated |
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| 15:11.13 | Penguin | Fox: It does not match the filelist that is on the package page on the web site. |
| 15:11.54 | opv | annadane: i missed the start, but is your problem keybindings in firefox by any chance? |
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| 15:15.30 | n4dir | if it was me i would just hit "ctlr+l" to access the url-bar. |
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| 15:21.00 | saper | I am building a trivial package with one shell script, does anyone know the "debian/files" file is documented? |
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| 15:24.23 | mason | saper: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dreq.en.html |
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| 15:27.00 | saper | mason: I don't see where the file list is defined there |
| 15:27.15 | saper | dpkg-genchanges: warning: package lftp-dummy in control file but not in files list |
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| 15:29.22 | saper | I just want to have a one file (shell script) installed in /usr/bin and a manpage, it can't be that hard :) |
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| 15:31.44 | greycat | !nmg |
| 15:31.44 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/ |
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| 15:34.33 | saper | no, sorry, they are not good. I have found Debian Policy Guidelines which is the first document which describes "DEBIAN" binary package description directory; I probably need to make it a binary package. |
| 15:35.19 | mason | saper: My point was, if you're going to go to the effort to make a package, rather than finding some other means to install, it's worth going through the full ceremony and making a correct package. |
| 15:35.33 | greycat | If you're trying to find low-level descriptions that allow you to hack together a pacakge and circumvent all of the stuff that makes a Debian package actually good, my first instinct is to point you to #ubuntu. :-P |
| 15:35.37 | mason | Otherwise, Ansible will be happy to put your script into /usr/local/bin for you. |
| 15:36.35 | greycat | And I agree that if all you want is a script and its man page to be usable on the server, simply copying them into /usr/local/ is the correct approach. |
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| 15:39.31 | bipul | Could anyone helps me to understand how 95 percentile has been calculated here ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burstable_billing |
| 15:39.48 | greycat | ... how is that related to Debian? |
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| 15:40.24 | bipul | I'm installing load balancer on debian, and i though somebody knows here who has worked on it. |
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| 15:48.37 | saper | greycat, mason: what I needed is a pure binary package only with "DEBIAN" directory. I can safely ignore all the guides and just use plain "dpkg-deb --build <directory>" and it worked |
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| 15:50.14 | jelly | saper: but... but that is EVIL! |
| 15:50.22 | saper | I also needed the package because that script conflicts with some other, well-known package and should prevent its installation |
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| 15:50.46 | greycat | ... what. |
| 15:50.47 | saper | jelly: :) it is documented in the policy at leat :) |
| 15:51.06 | jelly | looks at his /home/jelly/bin/dpkgb and says nothing else |
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| 15:52.45 | jelly | if [ -f "$package/DEBIAN/control~" ]; then echo "E: tilde file found at \"$paket/DEBIAN/control~\"!"; exit 3; fi |
| 15:52.59 | jelly | s/paket/package/g |
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| 15:53.40 | jelly | hat must be 1998 code or so |
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| 15:54.19 | PaddyF | before the existence of the Bash FAQ? |
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| 15:55.00 | greycat | 1998 would predate even heiner's original hosting of it, yes |
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| 15:55.38 | greycat | Well, I'm assuming you mean mine, not Chet's. |
| 15:55.52 | greycat | Chet's bash FAQ is ... a bit different. |
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| 15:56.18 | PaddyF | i mean the one at wooledge |
| 15:56.21 | jelly | bash was maybe at 3.0 then, approaching usability slowly |
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| 15:57.44 | jhutchins_wk | jelly: Bash has been around a LONG time - longer than linux. |
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| 15:58.40 | greycat | I still remember the fun when bash 2.0 came out with the new ksh-compatible (( )) command that broke scripts with nested subshells. |
| 15:58.45 | geri | hi where is the binary of docker_1.5-1+b1_amd64.deb ... installed? |
| 15:59.03 | jelly | geri: dpkg -L packagename will show you installed package contents |
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| 15:59.19 | mrig | Hello |
| 16:00.05 | geri | jelly: i see: /usr/bin but dont find the binary...hm |
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| 16:01.32 | mrig | I would like to reinstall my debian system and am currently have the system and /home folder on different encrypted logical drives. When I boot from a usb live installer, these drives are not recognised at the disk partition stage; How can I install on the existing drive and reuse the existing home folder? |
| 16:02.07 | mrig | Should I tell the installer that the space is lucs some how? |
| 16:02.12 | mrig | luks |
| 16:02.40 | saper | what is the best way to indicate that a package depends on Bourne shell? (works with dash and with bash) |
| 16:02.58 | greycat | There is no need to indicate that at the package level. |
| 16:03.34 | greycat | Just use a #!/bin/sh shebang in the script. |
| 16:04.06 | jelly | saper: you don't need to declare Depends: on packages that are Essential: yes |
| 16:04.29 | greycat | "a functional sh" is assumed to be present, and you don't need to spell that out in the Depends |
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| 16:05.46 | Penguin | So how do I get the widevine plugin for chromium since the chromium-widevine package is busted? |
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| 16:09.10 | SzbcE8qNfG | hello, how is the debian KVM performance when running a windows 10 VM? |
| 16:09.24 | SzbcE8qNfG | I want to run debian and then use Windows 10 VM for XBOX streaming |
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| 16:09.40 | SzbcE8qNfG | specs on the machine are intel i5 kaby lake with 8gb ram |
| 16:09.54 | SzbcE8qNfG | the win10 machine is only for xbox one streaming....maybe some light league of legends gaming |
| 16:10.25 | Serajewe1KS | for that kind of stuff i'd say it depends on how well GPU forwarding works |
| 16:10.30 | Serajewe1KS | you'd have to try it and see |
| 16:11.20 | SzbcE8qNfG | the KVM VM and the host debian OS can share the same intel IGP GPU right? |
| 16:11.48 | SerajewelKS | pretty sure yes, the VM gets a limited context |
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| 16:16.44 | SerajewelKS | GPU forwarding is one of those things that can be flaky depending on so many factors, so the only answer you're likely to get is "try it and see" |
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| 16:22.29 | linuxconformer | why is debian using python2 by default? |
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| 16:22.47 | linuxconformer | it's causing massive problems when i try to use python3/pip3 |
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| 16:23.48 | linuxconformer | sorry, disconnected |
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| 16:24.27 | linuxconformer | anyone know? |
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| 16:26.25 | linuxconformer | like why doesn't pip use pip3? |
| 16:26.31 | linuxconformer | if i'm not sure python 2 |
| 16:26.34 | linuxconformer | i don't get it |
| 16:27.00 | greycat | pip is *implemented* in python 3 even if you use it to build a python 2 module |
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| 16:27.37 | greycat | or... no wait, I might be thinking of venv |
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| 16:30.16 | greycat | There are python3-pip and python-pip packages. The latter is for Python 2. |
| 16:30.29 | linuxconformer | i installed the former |
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| 16:32.09 | greycat | python3-pip provides a program named /usr/bin/pip3 |
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| 16:32.45 | SerajewelKS | doesn't it use the debian alternative system? |
| 16:33.30 | SerajewelKS | hmm no, pip is not a symlink |
| 16:33.33 | SerajewelKS | it's just a copy of pip2 |
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| 16:33.42 | greycat | python-pip provides a program named /usr/bin/pip2 and a program named /usr/bin/pip but I don't have it installed so I don't really know how it works... |
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| 16:34.19 | linuxconformer | a bit ridiculous it's so difficult to use python on debian... |
| 16:34.30 | SerajewelKS | it's almost like making a new major release of a language without providing a way to specify in-script which version of the language it uses, thereby forcing version suffixes on the interpreter binary is a really awful idea |
| 16:34.43 | SerajewelKS | linuxconformer: blame python. they screwed up the transition. |
| 16:35.09 | SerajewelKS | python 3 is not fully backwards-compatible |
| 16:35.21 | linuxconformer | i'm happy to blame them |
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| 16:37.09 | SerajewelKS | note that /usr/local/bin is preferred before other paths in $PATH so you can always "ln -s /usr/bin/pip3 /usr/local/bin/pip" |
| 16:37.16 | SerajewelKS | but note this can break things that expect pip to be python 2 |
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| 16:38.49 | PaddyF | how could i find out why DASH is named "Debian Almquist shell" when my brain wants to transform it to "alchemist" |
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| 16:39.31 | jelly | PaddyF: read the documentation, changelog? |
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| 16:42.25 | marshmallow | why kernel version is 3.16.0-6-amd64 (old kernel version) but /etc/debian_version displays 9.5? |
| 16:42.48 | PaddyF | "originally written by Kenneth Almquist in the late 1980s. Initially a clone of the System V.4 variant of the Bourne shell" |
| 16:42.55 | BCMM | SerajewelKS: what's wrong with version suffixes on the interpreter binary? |
| 16:44.04 | BCMM | PaddyF: basically because it's the debian version of the almquist shell (ash) |
| 16:44.14 | PaddyF | yup |
| 16:44.20 | jelly | marshmallow: the admin may have intentionally booted the older kernel. Or never rebooted after a debian 8 -> debian 9 release upgrade |
| 16:44.22 | BCMM | (the other common implementation on Linux would be busybox version) |
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| 16:45.22 | marshmallow | jelly: I've just rebooted and it still shows me that kernel version, but I know distro has been upgraded to the latest version |
| 16:45.27 | jelly | marshmallow: or they have something unusual in their boot process. Could be lots of different reasons. |
| 16:45.36 | PaddyF | busybox is more. a cut down glibc and coreutils and a shell, right? |
| 16:45.50 | jelly | marshmallow: pastebin the output of "apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64" and "apt-cache policy" |
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| 16:45.57 | SerajewelKS | BCMM: nothing if it's mandatory |
| 16:46.00 | PaddyF | originally for embedded systems and phones |
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| 16:46.09 | jelly | !paste |
| 16:46.09 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net or https://0bin.net/ | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 16:46.25 | SerajewelKS | BCMM: having "python" "python2" and "python3" but having "python" be unclear on which version it is is confusing and unhelpful |
| 16:47.02 | jelly | SerajewelKS: isn't it agreed it's going to be python2 until 2020, then switch to python3? |
| 16:47.07 | BCMM | SerajewelKS: so, people should have had the foresight to never have a "python" executable, in case breaking changes happen in the future? |
| 16:47.14 | jelly | there was a prominent PEP about that |
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| 16:47.37 | SerajewelKS | it would be better to get rid of it altogether than have it switch... especially if we're gonna do this again for python4 |
| 16:47.43 | marshmallow | jelly: https://ghostbin.com/paste/t8dtf |
| 16:47.51 | BCMM | SerajewelKS: nobody should use unversioned python hashbangs, but it needs to be supported for backwards-compatibility really |
| 16:48.15 | PaddyF | on my stretch system /usr/bin/python is a symlink to version 2 |
| 16:48.20 | jelly | marshmallow: your release upgrade is not completed |
| 16:48.34 | PaddyF | not sure why you have a binary |
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| 16:48.45 | marshmallow | jelly: missing apt-get dist-upgrade? |
| 16:48.59 | jelly | marshmallow: what does "apt-get -s dist-upgrade" say |
| 16:49.10 | SerajewelKS | it's just strange to me that python is about the only VM/language where i've seen this problem |
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| 16:49.18 | jelly | marshmallow: did you follow the release notes for debian 9? |
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| 16:49.38 | jelly | dpkg, jessie->stretch |
| 16:49.38 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/OFVv . In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "jessie" to "stretch" and remove stable-specific lines like jessie-backports. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. |
| 16:49.43 | SerajewelKS | (probably also perl, but... it's perl, so i expect that to be a cluster) |
| 16:49.55 | jelly | marshmallow: ^ |
| 16:50.11 | PaddyF | or gcc :) |
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| 16:50.48 | BCMM | PaddyF: busybox is a minimal userland. i think it shares some developers with uclibc, but neither of them requires the other |
| 16:51.20 | BCMM | PaddyF: busybox provides, roughly, equivalents to the utilities you'd find in coreutils |
| 16:51.24 | jelly | SerajewelKS: debian only ever has one perl5 at a time so that's not really something that can happen there |
| 16:51.41 | SerajewelKS | yeah i was thinking more of perl 6 |
| 16:51.41 | BCMM | PaddyF: plus a shell, and a few odds and ends like ps |
| 16:51.46 | SerajewelKS | which is basically a different language |
| 16:51.48 | PaddyF | BCMM: quite awesome for slimline systems |
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| 16:52.54 | BCMM | PaddyF: yes. they're *much* smaller than gnu utils, and "good enough" most of the time |
| 16:53.04 | PaddyF | :) |
| 16:53.37 | BCMM | (they're mostly posix-compliant, and do little beyond that - gnu likes to add features above and beyond what's needed for compatibility) |
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| 16:54.37 | BCMM | busybox also has this weird multi-call binary thing, which is the usual way of building it. in that setup, things like /bin/sh and /bin/echo and so on are all symlinks to the single bb binary |
| 16:54.41 | SerajewelKS | the thing that makes no sense to me is having "python" change. it should just forever be python 2, because we can't use "python2" in scripts in case somebody is running on old python that doesn't have that binary name. "python" and "python3" should be the only things to exist. |
| 16:54.43 | BCMM | apparently this saves disk space |
| 16:55.14 | BCMM | SerajewelKS: is there a plan to eventually remove python2 entirely? |
| 16:55.17 | greycat | Saving "disk" space in a RAM file system is the main goal there. |
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| 16:55.42 | SerajewelKS | BCMM: i would assume it will become unsupported eventually, at which point the "python" binary should just cease to exist. |
| 16:55.50 | jelly | BCMM: yes, there is, upstream, and it's relatively sane and distros will probably keep up with it |
| 16:55.51 | BCMM | it's a large, complex interpreter, and there could be security issues after eol |
| 16:55.53 | SerajewelKS | otherwise, again, we have the same problem when python 4 comes out |
| 16:56.16 | SerajewelKS | changing "python" to be version 3 will encourage people to use it when they shouldn't |
| 16:56.16 | BCMM | jelly: yes, i know upstream has an EOL date. i was asking whether debian would be removing it |
| 16:56.53 | jelly | BCMM: debian tends not to keep software with dead upstream |
| 16:57.18 | jelly | that's one of the reasons for archive removal |
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| 16:58.51 | jelly | there are some people making rumors about a "2.8" fork, they may have to rename it from "python" to something else and only time will tell how that turns out |
| 16:58.56 | SerajewelKS | basically if the argument is "scripts should specify a version suffix" then we should let the "python" binary die with python 2 and force version suffixes |
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| 17:06.18 | marshmallow | jelly: fixed, thanks. |
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| 17:19.26 | linuxconformer | guys how do i install pip3 packages? |
| 17:19.41 | linuxconformer | i can't access any of them, get "command doesn't exist" |
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| 17:20.48 | Linuxlars | python3 -m pip install |
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| 17:21.29 | SerajewelKS | apt install python3-pip |
| 17:21.50 | SerajewelKS | this package provides pip3 |
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| 17:21.57 | SerajewelKS | so then "pip3 install ..." |
| 17:22.55 | linuxconformer | SerajewelKS: i tried that, it was a nightmare |
| 17:23.07 | linuxconformer | Linuxlars: thanks, that worked |
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| 17:23.22 | linuxconformer | so i have to run all python commands through python3 -m now? |
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| 17:23.35 | linuxconformer | i hate python now |
| 17:23.46 | SerajewelKS | linuxconformer: how was it a "nightmare" |
| 17:23.56 | Linuxlars | that's what I use to do, to be sure |
| 17:24.00 | SerajewelKS | "pip3" and "python3 -m pip" should do basically the same thing |
| 17:24.06 | SerajewelKS | if they don't then that warrants a bug report, i should think |
| 17:24.19 | linuxconformer | it doesn't, pip3 install the package but then i get "command does not exist" whenever i try to run the packages |
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| 17:24.31 | linuxconformer | and when i try to install pipenv, it breaks pip3 |
| 17:25.37 | Linuxlars | Maybe it depend on versions. I use debian with python 3.5 and then i use python3 -m pip install, and it works |
| 17:25.37 | SerajewelKS | linuxconformer: i just checked the source of the pip3 shortcut. they literally do exactly the same thing. |
| 17:26.01 | SerajewelKS | from pip import main \n if __name__ == '__main__': sys.exit(main()) |
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| 17:29.30 | linuxconformer | SerajewelKS: it doesn't work, the packages install but i can't access them |
| 17:29.41 | linuxconformer | and intsalling pipenv breaks the whole thing |
| 17:29.47 | SerajewelKS | so it does work. but the place where it puts binaries isn't in $PATH |
| 17:30.10 | SerajewelKS | linuxconformer: you should have exactly the same problems with "python3 -m pip" |
| 17:30.14 | SerajewelKS | both execute exactly the same code |
| 17:30.16 | linuxconformer | i don't |
| 17:30.35 | SerajewelKS | then you have a python3 somewhere else that's not provided by debian |
| 17:31.04 | SerajewelKS | what does "which python3" say |
| 17:31.11 | linuxconformer | SerajewelKS wait are you saying i should be able to run "flask" after running "pip3 install flask"? |
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| 17:31.34 | SerajewelKS | i'm saying that "pip3 install flask" and "python3 -m pip install flask" run exactly the same command |
| 17:32.05 | SerajewelKS | *unless* you have an additional python3 command in your PATH somewhere other than /usr/bin/python3 |
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| 17:32.24 | SerajewelKS | because pip3 specifically calls /usr/bin/python3, while "python3 -m pip install flask" is going to run whatever python3 it finds in your PATH first |
| 17:32.33 | SerajewelKS | which may not be debian-provided, if you installed python 3 from source some other time |
| 17:32.44 | SerajewelKS | that's the only possible explanation i can think of for them doing different things |
| 17:32.59 | SerajewelKS | which is why i want to know what "which python3" reports |
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| 17:33.31 | linuxconformer | SerajewelKS: "/usr/bin/python3" |
| 17:33.39 | SerajewelKS | okay. then both commands do the same thing. |
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| 17:33.54 | linuxconformer | ok, but it does the same thing, but why can't i access the package commands, e.g. "$ flask" |
| 17:33.58 | linuxconformer | *maybe it does |
| 17:34.31 | SerajewelKS | did you run the install command as root? |
| 17:35.16 | linuxconformer | SerajewelKS: for pip? |
| 17:35.19 | linuxconformer | *pip3 |
| 17:35.21 | SerajewelKS | yes |
| 17:35.30 | linuxconformer | yeah i think so, otherwise it didn't allow me to intsall it |
| 17:35.45 | linuxconformer | i ran sudo apt install python3-pip |
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| 17:36.00 | SerajewelKS | that's for installing pip3 itself |
| 17:36.05 | SerajewelKS | did you run "pip3 install flask" as root |
| 17:36.12 | SerajewelKS | because it *will run successfully* as your user |
| 17:36.22 | SerajewelKS | but it will *not* have the permissions to install it for the whole system |
| 17:36.30 | SerajewelKS | which includes creating the binary in your PATH |
| 17:36.46 | SerajewelKS | sudo pip3 install flask |
| 17:37.00 | letsfindout | SerajewelKS: not really a good idea to use pip for global installs |
| 17:37.16 | linuxconformer | oh ok, so that's why |
| 17:37.21 | linuxconformer | thanks SerajewelKS |
| 17:37.25 | SerajewelKS | letsfindout: depends |
| 17:37.32 | linuxconformer | letsfindout: what if i want to use pipenv/poetry though? |
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| 17:37.41 | linuxconformer | then it should be global, no? |
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| 17:39.59 | SerajewelKS | if this is a single-purpose system (e.g. a VM just for doing flask stuff) then i would not really be shy about installing globally |
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| 17:40.54 | SerajewelKS | the other option you have is to put your user-site binary directory in your user's PATH |
| 17:41.05 | SerajewelKS | which is somewhere under $HOME/.local/lib/python... |
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| 17:47.35 | letsfindout | linuxconformer: for pipenv, I would still do a user installation |
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| 17:50.09 | letsfindout | linuxconformer: https://pipenv.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install/#pragmatic-installation-of-pipenv |
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| 17:51.40 | kiasan | hi all |
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| 18:47.14 | LoRez | I'm attempting to get tinyproxy to run as a different user. The init script seems to dig around in the config to get the correct user/group combo and apply it to the PID dir, but something else is messing around with that and causing it to not be able to be considered configured by dpkg. Anybody have any pointers as to where I should look to fix this better? |
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| 19:12.46 | PaddyF | usually, automount puts the pendrive in a user directory under /media. where do i put it when i need to mount manually? |
| 19:13.22 | greycat | wherever you like |
| 19:13.36 | petn-randall | PaddyF: Wherever you like, but most people put it to a subdir under /mnt/. |
| 19:13.52 | greycat | The "traditional" place for manual temporary mounts is /mnt but you can mkdir /foo or whatever you want as long as it's not in use. |
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| 19:14.38 | inetz | PaddyF: Personally I use /mnt/tmp or /mnt/usb |
| 19:14.54 | PaddyF | thanks :) |
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| 19:15.30 | aloo_shu | hey, where do I find the web searchable pkg lists for wheezy? archive doesn't have them (yet), the links to main server don't seem to work |
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| 19:18.31 | aloo_shu | link in question: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy-backports/ where has it been moved? duckduckgo is still finding this |
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| 19:19.00 | greycat | wheezy *backports*? uh, good luck with that |
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| 19:19.32 | greycat | even https://backports.debian.org/ only shows jessie and stretch |
| 19:19.33 | jelly | aloo_shu: or just use apt |
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| 19:19.53 | greycat | jelly: oh just wait until s/he admits that Debian isn't being used... |
| 19:19.55 | jelly | instead of "web searchable" |
| 19:20.09 | petn-randall | aloo_shu: https://backports.debian.org/ <-- wheezy-backports was removed a while ago. |
| 19:20.09 | phogg | aloo_shu: might be on archive.debian.org |
| 19:20.23 | aloo_shu | want a non-static new-ish ffmpeg for armhf, kernel of this android ties me to wheezy |
| 19:20.48 | greycat | oh, that's better than I expected |
| 19:21.04 | petn-randall | aloo_shu: How would that help you though? You still need the whole other userspace around it. |
| 19:21.23 | jelly | debian/dists/wheezy-backports/ is still non-empty on my mirror |
| 19:21.32 | petn-randall | !xy problem |
| 19:21.32 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
| 19:22.09 | jelly | aloo_shu: which kernel is it then, some 2.6 horribly old thing? |
| 19:22.49 | NetTerminalGene | IBM bought debian |
| 19:22.57 | jelly | !slap NetTerminalGene |
| 19:22.57 | dpkg | strikes a resounding *THWAP* across NetTerminalGene's face |
| 19:22.58 | aloo_shu | petn-randall: that's why I want to check what's available through proper debian repos |
| 19:23.06 | PaddyF | something is strange when i add the keys for the repositories for google's chrome and the spotify client - taken from the sources.list generator website |
| 19:23.17 | petn-randall | aloo_shu: Again, how would that help you? What are you trying to achieve? |
| 19:23.25 | PaddyF | the google key gives me "no route to host" 1 of 3 sttempts |
| 19:23.28 | jelly | PaddyF: those generator sites can be buggy |
| 19:23.33 | PaddyF | and the spotify key has the wrong signature |
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| 19:23.55 | greycat | PaddyF: I don't know spotify, but google-chrome-stable adds its own sources.list.d/ file when you install the .deb for it |
| 19:24.06 | aloo_shu | jelly 3.2 afaik, maybe jessie would run with trickery, but chrooting into bash complains about old kernel |
| 19:24.08 | petn-randall | PaddyF: Check it with the actual instruction on their website. |
| 19:24.21 | PaddyF | okay, thanks! |
| 19:24.26 | jelly | aloo_shu: complains and fails, or complains and works? |
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| 19:24.37 | greycat | The file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list contains two comment lines, and "deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main" |
| 19:24.56 | aloo_shu | jelly complains & exits, iirc |
| 19:24.57 | jelly | greycat: it also brings its own gpg keys |
| 19:25.02 | PaddyF | greycat: yes |
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| 19:26.20 | jelly | (they're heredoc'd in /var/lib/dpkg/info/google-chrome-stable.postinst) |
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| 19:26.55 | PaddyF | i didnt install them yet |
| 19:27.37 | aloo_shu | petn-randall: the aim is to concatenate images to movies/animated gifs, ffmpeg's image2 filter is behaving buggy, which is hopefully fixed in newer versions (folks at #ffmpeg could not reproduce my error, ffmpeg's at 4.x, wheezy straight is stuck at 1.x) |
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| 19:28.43 | jelly | aloo_shu: and you don't want a static build because...? |
| 19:29.05 | aloo_shu | petn-randall: imagemagick *might* do the trick, the difference though is that it's documentation is tons of options with little structuring and 0 examples |
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| 19:31.54 | aloo_shu | jelly: if all else fails, static (at 4.0.8 currently) will be my choice, but I am for shared libraries for all the good reasons that do speak for them, namely space in my case. Android really exemplifies this: it's easy to have 12 apps on the device, which *all* do contain some ffmpeg each |
| 19:32.23 | aloo_shu | that'd be 12x30MB wasted |
| 19:33.02 | jelly | aloo_shu: and your system cannot spare 360MB? |
| 19:33.16 | aloo_shu | jelly no |
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| 19:33.50 | jelly | what kind of a broken 4GiB flash machine do you have |
| 19:34.01 | aloo_shu | 360MB, well used, can be an entire linux. graphic even |
| 19:34.19 | jelly | I didn't ask for hypotheticals |
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| 19:35.23 | jelly | a statically linked build is the simplest way around old userspace for a single binary |
| 19:36.23 | jelly | and unless you have 12 debian chroots on that system, you'll be able to symlink or hardlink or PATH and use the same one |
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| 19:40.21 | aloo_shu | jelly, don't try to judge my hardware. It does make sense to think about wastefulness before it is in the 10% of total range. And yes, static is the simplest way and what I will ultimately resort to, but I've not gone through the pain of building a proper debian that runs fine in a chroot, just in order to pack it with heavy static packages that could run under android native just as well. The way I'm running my debian is coming with an other limitation, |
| 19:40.21 | aloo_shu | …4 fs in a file under vfat on sd. I think working with limitations is a very sane exercise. |
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| 19:46.22 | aloo_shu | phogg: archive.debian.org just like that & without knowing your way around, has a rather uninformative landing page :) |
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| 19:46.35 | phogg | aloo_shu: I didn't say it was going to be easy |
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| 19:53.13 | jhutchins_wk | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law |
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| 20:03.38 | aloo_shu | I've added wheezy-backports & wheezy-backports-sloppy to sources.list and will probe through apt now, all I had wanted was checking if it was worth the hassle with a quick web search |
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| 20:39.41 | aloo_shu | ok, learned something, wheezy-backports found, added to sources, and --target parameter learned, no luck with newer ffmpeg, though (yet). But a different find: imagemagick has pretty decent documentation indeed - online. Would make a good info page to include in the debian package, or could fit as html in /usr/share/doc/imagemagick (as suggested in its man page) |
| 20:40.15 | greycat | there's a separate imagemagick-doc package |
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| 20:40.58 | greycat | ... which it says is transitional to bring in imagemagick-6-doc because why would package names be sensible... |
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| 20:51.19 | annadane | anyone have any idea why spacefm doesn't show thumbnails but thunar does |
| 20:55.05 | ruffni | hello there! i have created a file containing an encrypted partition (using cryptsetup+mkfs). i really like the idea of being able to mount/unmount the secret files in there, but i'm wondering why i can only decrypt it as root? is there an option to decrypt/mount that file as non-root user? what is the reason behind it? |
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| 20:56.03 | mutante | ruffni: i guess the decrypting part doesn't actually need root.. just knowing the passphrase.. and that it's just about mounting as non-root .. and there are mount options to allow / do that |
| 20:56.03 | SerajewelKS | ruffni: just make a script that can mount/unmount it, and give sudo permission on that script |
| 20:56.26 | SerajewelKS | the decrypting part requires root because it creates a new device on the system |
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| 20:59.55 | ruffni | not a fan of sudo (it's not installed and i'm not sure why i should... doing stuff as root needs the root pw).. cryptsetup complains: "Cannot initialize device-mapper, running as non-root user.", the mount part i figured out :) |
| 21:00.25 | SerajewelKS | like i said, cryptsetup requires root because it creates a new device |
| 21:00.35 | SerajewelKS | you don't want random users creating a bunch of dm devices |
| 21:00.56 | SerajewelKS | sudo can be used to give specific users fine-grained access to run specific files as specific users |
| 21:01.24 | SerajewelKS | if you are looking for a userland encrypted filesystem, you may want to look at ecryptfs or encfs |
| 21:01.44 | ruffni | thanks! will look into it! |
| 21:02.24 | ruffni | so if i installed sudo, couldn't every user listed in sudoers file get UID 0 (i.e. sudo su)? |
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| 21:03.34 | SerajewelKS | basically what you would want for your sudoers file is: "your_user ALL = (root) /path/to/script" |
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| 21:05.02 | aloo_shu | got my image conversion goal finally. by and large, debian rocks. great tool to enjoy software freedom & squeeze the juice out of old hardware and/or otherwise limited (here: android) environments. thx for still maintaining oldoldstable, it doesn't need a high priority but it's great to have it. Consider how much useful & tweakable present day hardware is using the 2.6 kernel.. |
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| 21:09.32 | annadane | wheezy isn't even supported with LTS, no? |
| 21:09.56 | annadane | pretty sure it's fully EOL |
| 21:10.12 | mutante | no, ended May 31 2018 |
| 21:10.26 | annadane | so i'd reconsider "thanks for still maintaining" |
| 21:11.33 | annadane | anyone have any idea why spacefm doesn't show thumbnails but thunar does |
| 21:11.49 | greycat | !elts |
| 21:11.49 | dpkg | Limited commercial support for wheezy exists in form of Extended LTS, see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended and https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/ |
| 21:12.22 | greycat | Basically the plug has been pulled, and you're on your own at this point. |
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| 21:18.23 | ruffni | hmmm.. after apt-get install encfs "Until these issues are resolved, encfs should not be considered a safe home for sensitive data in scenarios where such attacks are possible." |
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| 21:35.24 | rant | hmm.. thats interesting.. so this elts is free for anyone to use? |
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| 21:39.29 | squarecircle | Ohai. Does the current Debian supports the AMD FirePro V7900? |
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| 21:44.46 | jhutchins_wk | ,v calibre |
| 21:44.47 | judd | Package: calibre on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.8.51+dfsg1-0.1; wheezy-security: 0.8.51+dfsg1-0.1+deb7u1; jessie: 2.5.0+dfsg-1; jessie-backports: 2.75.1+dfsg-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.75.1+dfsg-1; sid: 3.13.0+dfsg-1; stretch-backports: 3.31.0+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 3.33.1+dfsg-1; sid: 3.33.1+dfsg-1 |
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| 21:46.41 | RoyK | jhutchins_wk: heh - the version in Sid is older than that in backports? |
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| 21:49.21 | jhutchins | RoyK: backports is 3.31, sid is 3.33 |
| 21:49.55 | jhutchins | I just realized I haven't upgraded my desktop, only my server. |
| 21:50.23 | RoyK | jhutchins: sid: 3.13.0+dfsg-1 <-- from above - but then - sid is mentioned twice there |
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| 22:05.39 | centrix | Hi. first hands on debian, when is the default iptables rules file? Deb 8.10. |
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| 22:08.15 | RoyK | centrix: perhaps it's ufw? did you install this thing? |
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| 22:10.12 | SerajewelKS | centrix: if you just did the install then there is nothing that manages iptables |
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| 22:10.52 | RoyK | btw, debian 8, aka "jessie", is out of support |
| 22:10.54 | centrix | RoyK, no. I did not. I was told to help out as squid3 is being bombarded from one IP filling logs... |
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| 22:11.09 | SerajewelKS | RoyK: jessie is not out of support |
| 22:11.14 | SerajewelKS | it's just not the latest release |
| 22:11.19 | SerajewelKS | !jessie |
| 22:11.19 | dpkg | Jessie is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25: http://www.debian.org/News/2015/20150426 ; security support ends 2018-05-17 but ask me about <jessie-lts>. Jessie is the cowgirl in Toy Story 2. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie and ask me about <install jessie> <release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Currently <8.10>. |
| 22:11.21 | centrix | First came to my mind was to block that IP on firewall. |
| 22:11.28 | SerajewelKS | oh wait what am i thinking of |
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| 22:12.00 | centrix | But iptables is not running on that machine. |
| 22:12.09 | centrix | Nor is it configured. |
| 22:12.14 | RoyK | security support ends |
| 22:12.16 | RoyK | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.27 | SerajewelKS | it's still in LTS though |
| 22:12.48 | SerajewelKS | jessie is LTS until 2020 so it is supported on some architectures |
| 22:13.14 | RoyK | cornholio: iptables is an interface to netfilter in the kernel - there'll be no running process for it |
| 22:13.22 | RoyK | security support ends |
| 22:13.26 | RoyK | oops |
| 22:13.34 | RoyK | centrix: that last one was for you |
| 22:13.48 | SerajewelKS | yeah. LTS is security support, just handled by the LTS team and not the debian security team. |
| 22:13.57 | RoyK | centrix: pastebin output of "iptable -vnL" |
| 22:14.04 | RoyK | centrix: pastebin output of "iptables -vnL" |
| 22:14.07 | SerajewelKS | technically supported, but upgrading to stretch soon is advised |
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| 22:17.12 | centrix | RoyK, https://pastebin.com/sUJHc4ty |
| 22:17.18 | centrix | It's simply empty. |
| 22:19.21 | centrix | When I try to start iptables (systemctl start iptables) the result is a failure: "Failed to start iptables.service: Unit iptables.service failed to load: No such file or directory." |
| 22:20.41 | centrix | I suppose the core of the failure is missing rule file. |
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| 22:24.47 | somiaj | centrix: iptables isn't a service afiak, are you trying to use persistant iptable rules? |
| 22:25.08 | somiaj | ,info iptables-persistent |
| 22:25.09 | judd | Package iptables-persistent (admin, optional) in stretch/amd64: boot-time loader for netfilter rules, iptables plugin. Version: 1.0.4+nmu2; Size: 10.5k; Installed: 42k |
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| 22:26.23 | shellhost | so, these messages are appearing in dmesg: https://paste.debian.net/1049630/ |
| 22:26.26 | somiaj | looks like that is now linked with netfilter-persistent which is the name of the service file for persitant iptables rules, /lib/systemd/system/netfilter-persistent.service is the provided service. |
| 22:27.01 | shellhost | this is the output of lscpi | grep 1c.5: 00:1c.5 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP PCI Express Root Port #6 (rev f1) |
| 22:27.42 | somiaj | shellhost: could one of the devices in your pcie slot be going bad? Isn't properly seated? |
| 22:28.07 | RoyK | centrix: there is no service |
| 22:28.32 | RoyK | centrix: better install ufw if you haven't done this before |
| 22:28.49 | RoyK | centrix: iptables is a wee bit complex - ufw makes that job easier |
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| 22:29.24 | shellhost | somiaj: Could be, however this is a brand new notebook. I would need to be sure before opening and checking as it will void the warranty |
| 22:29.27 | somiaj | or as mentioned use iptables-persistant, that includes a serivce and tools to save/export/reload rules. |
| 22:30.05 | somiaj | shellhost: ahh this is a notebook. Under warnaty? Wonder if there is a way to test the hardware. What version of debian are you running? |
| 22:30.27 | centrix | RoyK, I understand, but I know there is some "startup" rules file in CentOS that you can edit and reload. Is there something like it in Debian? |
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| 22:30.50 | centrix | RoyK, Like /etc/sysconfig/iptables |
| 22:31.35 | centrix | You let kernel read the tables by issuing "systemctl reload iptables" |
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| 22:31.40 | RoyK | centrix: see above - iptables-persistent has it - ufw just makes it easier - up to you which one you choose |
| 22:31.50 | centrix | OK |
| 22:32.08 | shellhost | somiaj: Debian Stable 9.5. The notebook is from Dell, so there's a Diagnostic tool embedded into the system, I ran it before and it didn't found any issues |
| 22:32.16 | RoyK | prefers ufw for most things, but sticks to iptables for the more complex rules |
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| 22:33.06 | somiaj | shellhost: try installing the newest kernel from stretch-backports. It could be the older kernel instretch is having trouble with your newer hardware. |
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| 22:33.43 | somiaj | shellhost: is this one of those notebooks from dell that is built to run linux, or one built for windows? |
| 22:34.16 | shellhost | somiaj: it's supposed to run both, since you can choose which system to use |
| 22:35.06 | somiaj | Okay, just checking. I know only certain Dell's are certified to run Ubuntu. But that is from a newer kernel. I would first check out if the newer kernel from stretch-backports works. |
| 22:35.10 | somiaj | ,kernels |
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| 22:35.11 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-rc7-686-pae (4.19~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2); buster: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.18.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u6); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); |
| 22:35.12 | judd | wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1) |
| 22:35.26 | somiaj | it could be the 4.18 kernel deals with that newer hardware better than the 4.9 default in stretch. |
| 22:35.53 | shellhost | somiaj: in terms of updated kernel, I tried the many versions(4.15, 4.16, 4.17, 4.18) the issue still appeared. |
| 22:36.39 | shellhost | only way that it disappeared was by using the pci=noacpi on grub, but that just disables advanced error reporting |
| 22:36.47 | somiaj | I'm unsure, my first guess is hardware (or kernel icomadability) issue with the actual pci device in the slot that is timming out. Unsure if this is something that is under warnanty and you want Dell to check out. I don't know of any better way to check it out. |
| 22:37.05 | somiaj | and it could be something that the self diagnostics doesn't detect. |
| 22:37.34 | shellhost | well, if that's the case then I'm royally screwed |
| 22:37.52 | shellhost | I'm going to run the diagnostics again and try to contact Dell |
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| 22:57.14 | centrix | RoyK, thanks for help. I need a sleep. I just temporarily blocked the IP with an iptable rule and will continue tomorrow. |
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| 22:58.04 | shellhost | somiaj: all tests passed, pcie seems to be in good shape by Dell Diagnostic Standards |
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| 22:59.22 | shellhost | somiaj: in your opinion, in a scale from 1 to 10, how severe is this issue? |
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| 23:00.31 | ctcx | Ssh-ing one same server with more than one user at the same time, can this be ever risky? |
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| 23:02.34 | somiaj | shellhost: it depends what pci device is having trouble. If it is a device you aren't using, maybe just disable it in the firmware. |
| 23:02.49 | Thedarkb-M90 | ctcx, I can't really see how it could be. |
| 23:02.57 | Thedarkb-M90 | I do it all the time without issue. |
| 23:03.03 | somiaj | ctcx: what do you mean by that? you mean having multiple connections between one computer and another with multiple users? |
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| 23:04.47 | Thedarkb-M90 | I run some game server s and at one point myself and one of my moderators were connected to the same tmux at the same time. |
| 23:04.53 | Thedarkb-M90 | That was a bit interesting to say the least. |
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| 23:05.34 | ctcx | ..... |
| 23:05.42 | ctcx | oh, f**k with me... |
| 23:05.49 | ctcx | I meant, |
| 23:06.17 | ctcx | Ssh-ing one same server with very same user *multiple* times at the same time, can this be ever risky? |
| 23:06.40 | ctcx | I.e., ssh to a server with "myUser", but from more than one client at same time |
| 23:07.23 | somiaj | in general no, but you could have problems where one session opens a file and starts to edit it, another session opens the file and edits it, then quits, then the first session saves its edits, thus erasing all the eddits from the other session. |
| 23:07.41 | Thedarkb-M90 | Most editors will warn you of this though. |
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| 23:08.19 | somiaj | yea, just giving an example of something that could go wrong, if trying to edit the same file from multiple locations at once (or within a small time frame) |
| 23:08.57 | somiaj | but this is no different than having multiple xterms opened on your linux desktop all of the same user. |
| 23:09.30 | somiaj | so it isn't the multiple ssh sessions that are the issue. |
| 23:11.02 | Thedarkb-M90 | Hmm, I used to use Konversation before they went 64 bit only as far as official builds were concerned. |
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| 23:12.34 | ctcx | So, if only using scp within this situation, really not much big risks except for overwriting one same file because of equal filename? |
| 23:13.03 | Thedarkb-M90 | Quit worrying, it's all okay. |
| 23:13.33 | somiaj | ctcx: there isn't any additional risk than is already there of being able to have multiple logins at the same time. |
| 23:13.54 | somiaj | though as Thedarkb-M90 pointed out, if you have multiple people using the same user, it could get intersting trying ot use the same tmux session. |
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| 23:14.20 | Thedarkb-M90 | It didn't end badly or anything. |
| 23:14.30 | Thedarkb-M90 | We just ended up trying to type in a server console at the same time. |
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| 23:15.37 | ctcx | "Server console"? |
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| 23:16.00 | ctcx | ... in this hypothetical scenario the server would be command line only... |
| 23:16.28 | somiaj | ctcx: in this case they were using tmux (which can have multiple clintes attach to at the same time) both trying to type into the same server console for the game they were running. |
| 23:16.44 | somiaj | which may come as a surprise until you realize what is going on |
| 23:17.13 | shellhost | somiaj: this is interesting, I dug deeper into forums and on arch forums and someone was advised to enable the pcie_aspm=off flag on boot. It fixed my issue |
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| 23:17.15 | somiaj | but this is rare, in your case, there I would say there is little risk, or at least no additional risk than already exists in a multiuser/login enviorment. |
| 23:17.42 | ctcx | Oh |
| 23:18.13 | somiaj | shellhost: Nice. I wasn't sure what exactly was failing, but it doesn't surprise me that there are issues with acpi or the old aspm features. These don't seem to be correctly implemented in a standard method on many systems. |
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| 23:19.57 | ctcx | somiaj: the thing is, I'd like to setup a "file server" on Linux for use for Windows clients. Just *no* Samba, because I need server to be accessible from outside LAN. |
| 23:20.10 | ctcx | Best option I thought in was scp. |
| 23:20.24 | ctcx | Just changing sshd port and blocking root access. |
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| 23:20.51 | somiaj | ctcx: what clients are you needing to get the files? And will it just be you? A set of known users? Or do you need some sort of guest access? |
| 23:21.01 | somiaj | if all you need to do is share (not upload) http is a nice way to do that. |
| 23:21.20 | somiaj | sftp (via scp, rsync, or winscp on windows) is a nice way to share files over the ssh server, and cna work just fine. |
| 23:21.30 | somiaj | there is also sshfs (a way to mount remote file system over ssh) on linux. |
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| 23:22.02 | shellhost | somiaj: interesting, will keep this flag on forever now. Really want to thank you for the help, this was bugging me for quite some time. |
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| 23:25.08 | ctcx | somiaj: the -Windows- clients need to upload files to the server, just that. My initial "multiple same user" doubt was because, clients are spread over several different offices, each office with more than one client obviously. |
| 23:25.10 | ctcx | And I thought it'd be a real pain in the ass to add *all* freaking individual users to the file server; instead thinking about assigning only one user per "office", where all members of one office would use the same user. |
| 23:26.15 | somiaj | I would set up each person as an indviduial user so you can track access. But yea, having 'trusted' users with ssh permisions to use sftp to be able to store/access files is a way that could work and is quite secure. |
| 23:26.40 | somiaj | I think there is also a way to make ssh only allow certain users sftp access only (no actual shell access) which gives a little more security. |
| 23:28.07 | squarecircle | Ohai, where should I try debugging, when the framebuffers are actually there and the max_resolution also is correct, but xrandr does not show me providers and gnome does not show additional screens? |
| 23:32.44 | wonderworld | ctcx: why not nextcloud? |
| 23:32.49 | wonderworld | or samba and vpn |
| 23:33.41 | wonderworld | i guess nextcloud would be the most simple thing to setup. clients just need a browser |
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| 23:34.38 | wonderworld | they wouldn't even need any kind of account. you can set up a public folder where everyone can upload stuff to. contents of the folder can be invisible for users. |
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| 23:36.50 | wonderworld | plus it's very simple to deploy. if you have experience with it, it's done in 10 minutes, otherwise 2 hours. |
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| 23:38.35 | ctcx | somiaj: would you think nextcloud would make my initial idea look like a retarded and invalid solution? Hope not..... Nextcloud sounds good indeed, though a bit more elaborated... |
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| 23:45.13 | wonderworld | is scp built into windows explorer? |
| 23:46.13 | wonderworld | if not you would have to install and maintain additional software on all workstations, teach users how to use it, update it, etc. headache in my oppinion |
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| 23:48.42 | ctcx | wonderworld: that's what all of them do anyways, so the headache wouldn't be too much different |
| 23:48.57 | wonderworld | hehe ok :) |
| 23:49.20 | ctcx | (And I have generally preferred the portable version of winscp) |
| 23:49.59 | ctcx | somiaj: so using a same user to connect a server "multiple" times at same time is not that invalid in the end? |
| 23:50.02 | ctcx | ?? |
| 23:50.04 | wonderworld | i couldn't live without sshfs |
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| 23:55.28 | squarecircle | Ohai, where should I try debugging, when the framebuffers are actually there and the max_resolution also is correct, but xrandr does not show me providers and gnome does not show additional screens? |