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| 00:49.27 | awal1 | thunar 1.8.2-1 (sid): mouse pointer blinks non stop when positioned in any tree entry. anyone have same "issue"? |
| 00:49.43 | awal1 | just wanted to know if stable version is "safe" |
| 00:53.26 | tsarompy | awal1: have you tried asking in #xfce |
| 00:53.50 | tsarompy | id help you but im a kde user |
| 00:56.27 | awal1 | tsarompy, not in xfce yet. will try thare. thanks anyway :) |
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| 01:21.28 | velix | Hmm, why isn't pkg-config in build-essential? I think, lots of applications are needing it for building. |
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| 01:30.45 | awal1 | why if i cd to x dir and create a m3u file (audio) that file won'¡t be played if moved to another dir? |
| 01:31.10 | awal1 | "ls *.mp3 > mymusic.m3u" |
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| 01:44.31 | joepublic | awal1, that creates an m3u that has relative paths (files must be in a particular place relative to where the m3u file is). create the m3u file with full pathnames for one you can move around. |
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| 01:49.41 | joepublic | awal1, you might try: find `pwd` -maxdepth 1 -name "*.mp3" > mymusicwithfullpath.m3u |
| 01:51.38 | awal1 | joepublic, you mean i must do "ls *.mp3 > ~/Music/mymusic.m3u" ? |
| 01:52.17 | joepublic | No, I do not mean that. The full path of each mp3 must be specified in the m3u file for you to be able to move the m3u file and have it still work. |
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| 01:52.38 | joepublic | "ls *.mp3" doesn't output the full path so it won't do what you describe. |
| 01:52.50 | joepublic | using find as I mentioned will output the full path. |
| 01:53.22 | \dev\cache | what do you guys use for Data Integrity, or Checksum software other than ZFS? |
| 01:53.30 | \dev\cache | or what exists in the enterprise market any idea? |
| 01:53.41 | \dev\cache | something with self healing and data at rest encryption would be great. |
| 01:54.38 | awal1 | joepublic, I use *.mp3 bcoz i already cdied to the dir where .mp3 are |
| 01:55.05 | joepublic | awal1, yeah, well, you might try: find `pwd` -maxdepth 1 -name "*.mp3" > mymusicwithfullpath.m3u |
| 01:55.25 | Krennic | even im like a week on debian one question is youtube.dl opensouce free or is a non-free open source that i can install on my debian |
| 01:55.39 | joepublic | awal1, or if you prefer: find `pwd` -maxdepth 1 -name "*.mp3" > whateveryouwanttocallit.m3u |
| 01:56.08 | awal1 | joepublic, after cding to the dir where i have the mp3 files or not? |
| 01:56.19 | joepublic | after cding to that directory. |
| 01:56.23 | awal1 | ok |
| 01:56.47 | joepublic | (or instead of "`pwd`" put "/name/of/that/directory") |
| 01:58.22 | phogg | in what circumstance is pwd not going to be the same as . |
| 01:58.38 | joepublic | Krennic, youtube-dl is free software in debian main. sudo apt-get install youtube-dl |
| 01:58.57 | joepublic | phogg: when he moves the .m3u file they will become different. |
| 01:59.16 | Krennic | ok ty joepublic |
| 01:59.26 | n4dir | awal1: in general you don't want to use ls for anything but look at it. |
| 01:59.32 | phogg | joepublic: find . -printf '%p\n' # problem solved |
| 01:59.58 | phogg | hmm, or no... it's not |
| 02:00.01 | phogg | interesting |
| 02:00.02 | n4dir | phogg: well, a quick test, and using pwd give full path ; . only gives relative path. |
| 02:00.10 | joepublic | phogg: I respectfully disagree. |
| 02:00.22 | n4dir | pretty astonished bout it. |
| 02:00.46 | awal1 | joepublic, thanks "find `pwd` -maxdepth 1 -name "*.mp3" > mymusicwithfullpath.m3u" works fine. now I can move the files anywhere and play them |
| 02:00.50 | phogg | joepublic: I stand corrected. There isn't a printf option which canonicalizes. |
| 02:00.53 | awal1 | ok, n4dir |
| 02:01.05 | joepublic | awal1, excellent. |
| 02:01.20 | phogg | it would have to be done as: find . -exec readlink -f {} + |
| 02:01.23 | awal1 | joepublic, I am clueless about find and ls ; I have to check that command closely now |
| 02:01.32 | n4dir | awal1: it is pitfall number one at mywiki.wooledge.org. It's worth to remember, imho. |
| 02:01.46 | awal1 | n4dir, good |
| 02:02.08 | joepublic | The find command is really powerful and pretty complicated. I don't half understand it, probably never will. Best I can do is make it do tricks. |
| 02:02.46 | phogg | joepublic: when you understand -prune it will be time for you to leave. |
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| 02:03.00 | joepublic | no doubt. |
| 02:03.09 | awal1 | yeah it is complicated, I just know a few stuff |
| 02:03.20 | ryouma | it's actually possible to udnerstand it. i think rsync man page, bash man page are slightly more insane. |
| 02:03.34 | ryouma | -prune is the worst part though. but it is fast. |
| 02:03.39 | n4dir | haha. oh yes, at least rsync is a tough one. |
| 02:03.40 | phogg | ryouma: rsync is not as counter intuitive. |
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| 02:04.14 | phogg | Lots of commands have tricky parts. tar exclusion patterns, anyone? |
| 02:04.22 | ryouma | i beg to differ. rsync has all these combined things (artchive option) and exceptions and stuff, plus all that include exclude syntax that still cannot do things you really want to do |
| 02:04.50 | phogg | ryouma: I didn't say it was not complicated, but that it doesn't run counter to intuition. |
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| 02:06.11 | phogg | If you think more like a computer most of these things get easier. They're not hard on purpose, they're just not written with humans in mind. Take sed as another example. |
| 02:06.16 | ryouma | find does not bother my intuition much. exceptions to stuff really bother me. whether it's my intuition of sense of good ui. |
| 02:06.18 | OS-42611 | !observer |
| 02:06.30 | ryouma | no thanks, i will not take sed |
| 02:06.39 | ryouma | take my sed |
| 02:06.40 | ryouma | please! |
| 02:06.42 | joepublic | I love sed |
| 02:07.28 | ryouma | or* |
| 02:07.37 | ryouma | i use sed all the time but only the basics |
| 02:07.50 | phogg | Understanding sed is a bit like understanding Finnegan's Wake. |
| 02:08.15 | phogg | A little is easier, but to understand it completely means becoming slightly disconnected with all other reality. |
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| 02:09.59 | awal1 | " ffmpeg -i mymusic.m3u mymusic.opus " I get "Izriw.m3u: Invalid data found when processing input" |
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| 02:11.59 | awal1 | in fact what I am trying to do is put together all the mp3 audio file in just one file with .opus extension |
| 02:12.46 | phogg | awal1: you mean you're trying to transcode a series of mp3s into a single opus file. |
| 02:12.46 | awal1 | have one opus audio file for each album |
| 02:12.57 | awal1 | phogg yes |
| 02:13.07 | mason | I'm curious about something - what do people see as the most natural replacement for full-system FreeBSD jails, in Debian? |
| 02:13.09 | phogg | can ffmpeg even read m3u files? I've no idea |
| 02:13.46 | joepublic | awal1, you can do cat *.mp3 > one-big-mp3.mp3 |
| 02:14.03 | joepublic | and then convert one-big-mp3.mp3 to something.opus. |
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| 02:14.03 | phogg | mpgjoing would better |
| 02:14.09 | phogg | er, mpgjoin |
| 02:14.11 | awal1 | joepublic, phogg, my initial goal is in fact put together/transcode a few mp3 audio files into a single opus file yes |
| 02:14.32 | joepublic | That's a very ugly solution, (leaves debris in the middle of one-big-mp3.mp3) but could work. |
| 02:14.37 | awal1 | joepublic ok let me try |
| 02:15.03 | phogg | joepublic: mpgtx (and its friends, mpgcat/mpgjoin) are the non-ugly solution |
| 02:15.05 | awal1 | i dont care about debris , for now it is fine for start :) |
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| 02:15.36 | awal1 | my albums are already halp "bad" bcoz both pirated yet |
| 02:15.41 | awal1 | half |
| 02:15.45 | awal1 | bought |
| 02:15.55 | joepublic | hmm, there is apparently something called mp3wrap that's better at it. apt-cache search mp3wrap |
| 02:16.53 | awal1 | joepublic, nice. i will try it |
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| 02:22.46 | awal1 | joepublic, "cat *.mp3 > mymusic.mp3" works fine thanks |
| 02:23.01 | mason | Hrm, maybe I want to play with OpenVZ a bit. |
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| 02:23.29 | joepublic | I am glad. For the record, cat is the wrong tool to use for mp3 (Even if it works) and I apologize for recommending it. |
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| 02:26.51 | awal1 | joepublic, I learned today thanks. I will try to work find and cat commands better if I have time but in short I will use 'mp3wrap' later because of convenience, more practical bcoz I have dozens of albums. |
| 02:27.03 | awal1 | and you know "Why pull the cart if you have horses" :P |
| 02:27.25 | joepublic | awal1, you are very welcome. It is good to see curiosity and learning. Peace. |
| 02:27.34 | awal1 | stupid capitalism, we don't have time even for eat |
| 02:27.52 | joepublic | Yeah that is one of its problems for most people living under it |
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| 02:27.57 | joepublic | Den |
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| 02:28.04 | joepublic | gee wrong window sorry |
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| 02:28.39 | awal1 | i am i canada, pure capitalism |
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| 02:28.53 | awal1 | sometimes deguised in false socialism |
| 02:28.55 | awal1 | :D |
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| 02:29.07 | awal1 | thanks for your time guys :) |
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| 03:52.42 | crimson_king | trying to read an .epub file on Debian 9.6 Xfce. File not supported, says Evince. Installed epub-utils, but still did not open it. |
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| 04:13.17 | ledeni | crimson_king: install 'calibre' |
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| 04:21.44 | Kon- | Hi, how are version updates deployed for packages in sid? I noticed the Plasma desktop is still on 5.13 in sid even though 5.14 has been out for over a month |
| 04:22.34 | dvs | Kon-, it's up to the maintainer to update the package. |
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| 04:23.28 | Kon- | Thanks |
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| 04:26.58 | maxrazer | Anyone else not have audio with Chromium 70 on Debian Sid? |
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| 04:33.59 | emma | Is Ardesia in Debian? |
| 04:35.12 | emma | !info ardesia |
| 04:36.51 | elios | emma: only in sid so far. |
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| 04:38.29 | Unit193 | As was answered in #kubuntu #840959 was the removal bug, only in old-old-stable. |
| 04:38.30 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/840959 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: ardesia -- RoQA; not in jessie or stretch, dead upstream»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-10-16; last modified: 2017-05-03. |
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| 04:46.31 | juxsys | ay |
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| 05:10.14 | piercedwater | good evening debianers |
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| 05:13.46 | awal1 | joepublic, mp3wrap works like a charm :) |
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| 05:27.45 | c|oneman | how do I configure something that doesn't have configure, just configure.ac https://github.com/HewlettPackard/netperf |
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| 05:29.32 | dab21 | c|oneman: Try "autoreconf -i", then you should have a configure script to run. |
| 05:29.57 | c|oneman | le sigh. |
| 05:30.34 | dab21 | Assuming you have autotools installed. |
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| 06:54.50 | azamet | how to find access point physical location? |
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| 07:04.27 | xdruppi | hi, can someone tell me if im gonna have issues with debian due to hardware? i use amd a8-7650k cpu with graphics, im new to linux, but i dont wanna go with ubuntu/mint, i wanna use debian |
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| 08:35.59 | AquaL1te | sup! how can i see the update history of a package in debian (without going to a quest in the log(rotated) files)? i'm looking for something similar as in fedora; `dnf history list unbound`. |
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| 08:45.43 | AquaL1te | or if there is an online overview somewhere? this doesn't really tell me which version of unbound i was running before upgrading to debian 9.6: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/unbound |
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| 08:47.37 | sharp15 | how much grief is involved in dual-booting debian with Win10? |
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| 08:51.59 | m_g_lewis | sharp15: The Debian installer will detect Windows 10 and create a grub boot loader to dual boot between the two OSs... |
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| 08:52.55 | sharp15 | m_g_lewis: even for a uefi machine? i just had the network installer make a mess of an encrypted disk earlier. |
| 08:53.07 | rudi_s | sharp15: Yes. It should work fine. |
| 08:53.31 | sharp15 | ok. ty both. i'll give it a shot. |
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| 08:55.38 | AquaL1te | i get the impression that debian version history is something you can only get from the log files? since no one seems to know a better way? |
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| 09:02.42 | m_g_lewis | AquaL1te: Check this out https://tracker.debian.org/ |
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| 09:03.58 | AquaL1te | m_g_lewis: check my message of 15 minutes ago :) i already stated that it doesn't give the info i'm looking for. i want to know which version was in use before debian 9.6 was introduced. but this takes too much time for something simple, thanks for your help though! |
| 09:04.10 | AquaL1te | *version of unbound |
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| 09:04.40 | m_g_lewis | No problem... |
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| 09:09.39 | sjmulder | hi all. I like writing little Unix programs as a hobby and would like to have .debs for them. I don't think they're worth a Debian maintainer's attention; is it bad form to do it myself? |
| 09:11.16 | rudi_s | AquaL1te: snapshots.debian.org? |
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| 09:11.48 | rudi_s | sjmulder: No, of course not. I have many custom Debian packages which I use to distribute my software among my hosts. |
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| 09:12.06 | rudi_s | It's also a great way to understand how Debian packing works. |
| 09:12.34 | rudi_s | There are a few guides out there (new maintainer guide is one IIRC) to get you started. |
| 09:12.40 | sjmulder | rudi_s: do you add the debian/ dir to your software repos directly or do you keep some separate tree? |
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| 09:13.23 | sjmulder | I've read some of the guides and many keep a clear distinction between upstream an downstream; I wonder if that's necessary for my own little things |
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| 09:14.55 | rudi_s | sjmulder: For my custom stuff it's a mix. For the private stuff I mostly just add the debian/ directory directly (and track it in the master branch in Git). For software I publish I use a separate debian branch and I merge the changes in and track the debian/ directory only in this branch. |
| 09:15.32 | rudi_s | I'd just do what's easier for you. Even if somebody decides to package it for debian, they can always prune your debian/ directory and ues the "offical" one. |
| 09:15.43 | sjmulder | rudi_s: I hadn't thought of the branch |
| 09:16.30 | dilema | Hi all, Debain lenny problem here, I'm trying to apt-get update but i have expired keys. I run apt-key list |grep expired and then apt-key adv --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys KEY, but nothing changes after another apt-get update. How can I solve this? https://hastebin.com/imibifebeg.sql |
| 09:16.39 | rudi_s | But it makes the setup a little more complicated (more merges, more switching branches). So it's not always worth it IMHO. |
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| 09:17.08 | sjmulder | rudi_s: how about keeping a separate 'debs' repo? I have something similar for Homebrew and RPMs already |
| 09:17.15 | sjmulder | suppose it complicates CI a little bit |
| 09:19.15 | AquaL1te | rudi_s: what have snapshots to do with my question? |
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| 09:26.18 | sharp15 | is it still recommended to avoid a swap partition for SSD? |
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| 09:27.46 | rudi_s | sjmulder: Makes it harder to track everything. I'd put it in the same repository. |
| 09:27.57 | rudi_s | AquaL1te: You can figure out when which package entered which debian release? |
| 09:28.27 | sjmulder | rudi_s: ok, thanks |
| 09:29.05 | rudi_s | np |
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| 09:30.07 | AquaL1te | rudi_s: sure, i can also unzip all my apt log files and grep those for 'unbound', i'm just looking for an easy way to do it. but it seems debian doesn't have it |
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| 09:32.05 | azamet_ | i need a little help with hascat |
| 09:32.42 | azamet_ | i know there is one hero will help me about hashcat command :D |
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| 09:33.08 | azamet_ | i feel it :D |
| 09:33.33 | AquaL1te | azamet_: maybe better to try ##security |
| 09:34.18 | azamet_ | i want to use the mass attack 8-10 chars qwertyuopasdfghjklzxcvbnmQWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM1234567890 what is the true command for that? |
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| 09:35.09 | jelly | sounds like something reading the manual would help with |
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| 09:36.13 | azamet_ | i already did but did not understand how to mix them |
| 09:39.45 | rabbitear_sdf | azamet_: what attack you like to do? |
| 09:40.09 | rabbitear_sdf | azamet_: say it again.. but explain it to me |
| 09:40.28 | azamet_ | mass attack i already converted a cap file and i want to use the mass attack 8-10 chars qwertyuopasdfghjklzxcvbnmQWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM1234567890 to that wifi file |
| 09:41.30 | Fox | azamet_: not sure this is some debian related question |
| 09:41.35 | rabbitear_sdf | azamet_: you are gonna have to slow down, read more about who you are, and then ask the question when you know more |
| 09:42.06 | azamet_ | debian or fuckian what is the different i mean they are the same commands on hashcat man? |
| 09:42.21 | rabbitear_sdf | azamet_: look |
| 09:42.52 | rabbitear_sdf | azamet_: you don't make sense and you sound like a drunk |
| 09:43.10 | rabbitear_sdf | azamet_: go read more |
| 09:43.13 | Fox | azamet_: this is #debian not #icantreaddocsandaskanywhere :) |
| 09:44.00 | rabbitear_sdf | azamet_: sorry for your troubles... |
| 09:44.44 | azamet_ | sorry that i blocked you |
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| 09:47.15 | jelly | azamet_: what did you try so far? |
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| 09:48.49 | azamet_ | i think i really need to install that freenode application to add friends because in this chat only few person i can find who really want to help other many people are generally jackasses -.- |
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| 09:51.15 | jelly | azamet_: it's just silly ways to say "there might be a better channel to ask your question" and "don't waste volunteers' time, try to solve it yourself first" |
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| 10:30.04 | sharp15 | on the win10 dual boot. do i still need to resize the existing partitions from windows? |
| 10:33.31 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: there should need to be space for a new os. |
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| 10:47.34 | BCMM | sharp15: ntfs resize from linux is pretty safe now |
| 10:47.46 | BCMM | (but don't ever resize partitions, on any platform, without making backups) |
| 10:49.00 | sharp15 | it is a brand new machine. i'll make the OEM reinstall usb stick first. unless it has to be optical then i'll be a few days before i try. |
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| 10:50.12 | rabbitear_sdf | nothing needs to be optical.... |
| 10:50.56 | sharp15 | rabbitear_sdf: i agree. but past history tells me that others do not. |
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| 10:51.43 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: I believe in the resize of most installs these days, but yes, do make a restorable backup ... you 'probably won't' use it |
| 10:52.28 | sharp15 | hehe. |
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| 10:52.48 | rabbitear_sdf | linux installs... its too general, but point is, modern installers are very good. |
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| 10:54.45 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: its also true that you do not see many dual boots these days... people just get rid of what the old, and put in the new... |
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| 10:55.36 | sharp15 | i have a brother printer that causes some annoyance with the drivers. still not sure what that will do. |
| 10:55.54 | sharp15 | i still can't install the driver on my gentoo box. |
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| 10:56.11 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: so in cups, you look for ppd's |
| 10:56.26 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: got that? |
| 10:56.38 | sharp15 | rabbitear_sdf: not that simple. it comes with some sort of codec binary. |
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| 10:57.16 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: gentoo, .... has ppd's somewhere, but usually modern <- lol distro's will already have all the ppds inside |
| 10:58.18 | Scorpion2185 | Hello, i have a big problem with dpkg |
| 10:58.46 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: yeah, if you're doing it that way, you end up trying alot ... but usually there are a couple of options for each printer |
| 11:00.02 | at0m | dpkg: tell Scorpion2185 about ask |
| 11:00.08 | rabbitear_sdf | sharp15: I hope people don't stop trying, because it doesn't work at first... |
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| 11:00.31 | Scorpion2185 | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/481126/dpkg-apt-problem-with-pyhon-ansible |
| 11:00.47 | Scorpion2185 | there there is my question about that |
| 11:01.07 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: no summery for here? |
| 11:01.50 | Scorpion2185 | rabbitear_sdf: do you want an explanation here? |
| 11:01.52 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: i sent him here, from ##linux. tl;dr: he had an error message, so he deleted a bunch of stuff from /var/lib/dpkg/status, and now apt doesn't work |
| 11:01.53 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: you should probably let them answer you then |
| 11:02.20 | rabbitear_sdf | oh |
| 11:02.36 | BCMM | Scorpion2185: you might be able to salvage things with a copy of dpkg/status from /var/backups |
| 11:02.51 | Scorpion2185 | rabbitear_sdf: if I found some solutino i will add it to the question |
| 11:02.56 | rabbitear_sdf | what is dpkg/status for ? |
| 11:03.09 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: for dpkg to remember basically everything it knows |
| 11:03.29 | rabbitear_sdf | and then, what does dpkg know? |
| 11:03.36 | Scorpion2185 | BCMM: i edited the file many times |
| 11:03.50 | BCMM | Scorpion2185: it sounds like you've run a bunch of apt commands since modifying the file, so i suspect you'll just have to clean install, but i thought it might be worth seeing if anybody in here can think of a way to fix it |
| 11:04.00 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: what packages are currently installed on the system, for instance |
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| 11:04.12 | Scorpion2185 | is there some hard reset? |
| 11:04.19 | rabbitear_sdf | hmmmmmm |
| 11:04.21 | Scorpion2185 | of dpkg |
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| 11:04.47 | BCMM | Scorpion2185: well, what would that actually mean? |
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| 11:05.15 | BCMM | afaik the answer is no. that was the primary source of information on installed packages, and now it's not right |
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| 11:05.39 | Scorpion2185 | BCMM: somehow reinstall/reset dpkg that will check from 0 all apt |
| 11:05.46 | BCMM | the information that would be required to rebuild it probably does not exist |
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| 11:05.49 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185 and BCMM, nope, that's not the why |
| 11:06.05 | rabbitear_sdf | you can touch the file if you want |
| 11:06.27 | sharp15 | rabbitear_sdf: i'll try. |
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| 11:07.29 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: I could simply run 'apt update' |
| 11:07.33 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: that it isn't why *what*, exactly? |
| 11:07.50 | rabbitear_sdf | what? |
| 11:08.06 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: what did you mean by "that's not the why"? |
| 11:08.15 | rabbitear_sdf | that file doesn't need to be there to do any dpkg |
| 11:08.27 | rabbitear_sdf | you should run 'apt update' and look at that |
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| 11:08.53 | Scorpion2185 | any apt/dpkg cmd get many dpkg errors |
| 11:09.06 | Scorpion2185 | output in the question |
| 11:09.18 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: it seems very likely, to me, that there is some connection between "x depends on y however y is not installed", and dpkg having forgotten that certain packages are installed |
| 11:09.31 | rabbitear_sdf | well, whatever, keep on going if you want to, but all you need to do is run 'sudo apt update' |
| 11:09.41 | Scorpion2185 | i can' t use apt at all... |
| 11:10.05 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: because? |
| 11:10.06 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: could i ask for a source for the claims you're making? |
| 11:10.14 | rabbitear_sdf | stop it |
| 11:10.23 | rabbitear_sdf | run the freakin command already |
| 11:10.24 | Scorpion2185 | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/481126/dpkg-apt-problem-with-pyhon-ansible this errors |
| 11:10.29 | rabbitear_sdf | and say what it says |
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| 11:10.44 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: look, we don't speak about http all the time |
| 11:10.48 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: because, based on the dpkg man page, that file *does* contain irreplaceable information about the configuration of the system |
| 11:10.54 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: you just gonna have to learn to communicate |
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| 11:11.18 | rabbitear_sdf | I'm about to go, you guys do whatever |
| 11:11.20 | Scorpion2185 | rabbitear_sdf: you should learn to read |
| 11:11.34 | rabbitear_sdf | nob |
| 11:12.11 | Scorpion2185 | BCMM: best way to permorm a clean install? |
| 11:12.14 | Scorpion2185 | perform |
| 11:12.27 | glaucom | any help install dependence for lightworks and debian 9 strech |
| 11:12.28 | glaucom | ? |
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| 11:13.05 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: seriously, only run apt update |
| 11:13.28 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: this dude here BCMM, your friend is just leading you around the internet |
| 11:13.28 | BCMM | Scorpion2185: try apt update if you want, it's not going to make things any worse |
| 11:13.50 | rabbitear_sdf | I'm going to BED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 11:14.04 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf hasn't explained why he thinks it will help, but he might know something i don't know |
| 11:15.00 | Scorpion2185 | I' m not familiar with lightworks |
| 11:15.00 | Scorpion2185 | what is the problem? |
| 11:15.23 | Scorpion2185 | rabbitear_sdf: I RAN IT MAN |
| 11:15.33 | Scorpion2185 | rabbitear_sdf: I CAN' T USE ANY APT AT ALL |
| 11:16.10 | rabbitear_sdf | http://www.linuxfromscratch.org |
| 11:16.11 | Fox | Scorpion2185: can you paste the exact output of the command somewhere ? |
| 11:16.15 | rabbitear_sdf | and stop crying |
| 11:16.38 | BCMM | Scorpion2185: there's only really one way to do a clean install... you install debian again, from a dvd or usb stick. like you did the first time. make copies of files you want to keep first. |
| 11:17.04 | Scorpion2185 | Fox: I sure can but all the erros are those of my questiom, so is really necessary? |
| 11:17.07 | Scorpion2185 | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/481126/dpkg-apt-problem-with-pyhon-ansible |
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| 11:18.35 | Scorpion2185 | maybe i should fill a bug |
| 11:18.50 | Fox | Scorpion2185: can you grep "remove" in /var/log/dpkg.log ? |
| 11:19.50 | glaucom | lightworks depende de libjpeg8 (>= 8c); porém: |
| 11:19.56 | glaucom | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:20.04 | BCMM | glaucom: are you using the .deb from their website? |
| 11:20.05 | rabbitear_sdf | plus is the drive full, bla bla blah |
| 11:20.08 | glaucom | and more two others |
| 11:20.34 | rabbitear_sdf | BCMM: most people can't view what you think.. |
| 11:21.09 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: frankly, you've stopped making sense. round about when you posted the lfs link. |
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| 11:21.27 | rabbitear_sdf | thanks |
| 11:21.31 | rabbitear_sdf | and good. |
| 11:21.35 | rabbitear_sdf | nite. |
| 11:22.29 | Scorpion2185 | Fox: yes i will add it to tghe question ok? |
| 11:22.44 | Fox | as you like |
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| 11:25.52 | Scorpion2185 | Fox: I did it |
| 11:26.16 | Fox | wowo, that's a lot, just using autoremove ? |
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| 11:27.22 | Scorpion2185 | after autoremove i tried to remove some problematic packages |
| 11:27.27 | themill | Scorpion2185: I think the only sensible action here is to restore one of the non-broken /var/backups/dpkg.status.N back to /var/lib/dpkg/status |
| 11:27.27 | Fox | you say you did an apt update, I can't see it on stackexchange, only "apt upgrade" |
| 11:27.45 | Scorpion2185 | themill: and after? |
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| 11:27.56 | sharp15 | i'm using lxde on one machine and closing the lid puts it into suspend/sleep/hibernate. how do i disable this? |
| 11:27.57 | themill | "aptitude reinstall ~i" |
| 11:28.24 | themill | you may need to add or remove some packages first. |
| 11:28.40 | themill | Fundamentally, however, you can't just fix things by breaking apt and dpkg. |
| 11:29.02 | Scorpion2185 | Fox: yes but i also tried that it takes like 3 hours some problem to kernel packages and the broke again |
| 11:29.28 | lupulo | Scorpion2185, it doesn't happen from several years ago, what type of package do you have removed? |
| 11:29.46 | Scorpion2185 | themill: the file is dpkg.status.o? or the .gz |
| 11:30.01 | themill | Scorpion2185: a non-broken one from before you broke things. |
| 11:30.22 | Scorpion2185 | themill: apt autoremove broke things |
| 11:30.25 | themill | no |
| 11:30.36 | Barones | Hi, I'm trying to use debian buster/testing but after apt upgrade I'm getting the following error: https://paste.debian.net/1051381/ |
| 11:30.38 | themill | apt autoremove did not start editing the status file. |
| 11:30.40 | Scorpion2185 | themill: yes that s why i manually edited the file |
| 11:30.43 | themill | no |
| 11:31.00 | BCMM | themill: Scorpion2185 has previously said that the file has been edited many times, so there may not be a clean, up-to-date version in backups |
| 11:31.12 | themill | BCMM: eek |
| 11:31.15 | sharp15 | nm. it doesn't seem to be doing it today. |
| 11:31.18 | themill | Scorpion2185: reinstall that box and stop breaking things |
| 11:31.25 | Scorpion2185 | yes i edited many times to remove all problematic packages |
| 11:31.28 | BCMM | themill++ |
| 11:31.33 | themill | Scorpion2185: there's no such thing |
| 11:31.46 | BCMM | Scorpion2185: that does not remove packages! |
| 11:31.48 | themill | Barones: #debian-next on irc.oftc.net is a better place to ask |
| 11:31.54 | Scorpion2185 | lupulo: autoremoe removed some python packages |
| 11:31.55 | BCMM | Scorpion2185: that just makes dpkg forget they are installed |
| 11:31.58 | Barones | thanks themill |
| 11:32.17 | lupulo | Scorpion2185, python has its self autoremove |
| 11:32.21 | BCMM | there is a way to cleanly uninstall packages, and that isn't it |
| 11:32.29 | Barones | tried to join but it says this channel is invite only themill |
| 11:32.35 | themill | !#debian-next |
| 11:32.36 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 11:32.36 | BCMM | Barones: wrong network |
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| 11:32.54 | Scorpion2185 | lupulo: i ran apt autoremove |
| 11:33.00 | Barones | ohh, thanks |
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| 11:33.21 | BCMM | Barones: basically oftc is debian's official irc network. this channel and -offtopic are the only channels on freenode i'm aware of |
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| 11:34.56 | shayanthethief | hi there, what's the most stable nvidia proprietary driver for debian 9.6? |
| 11:35.08 | at0m | BCMM: and some -$language channels |
| 11:35.40 | Scorpion2185 | themill: i wish so but there is |
| 11:36.07 | rabbitear_sdf | Scorpion2185: next time use 'virtualenv' for your project.... g/n |
| 11:36.32 | BCMM | shayanthethief: really depends on your card, and probably on luck. but the best bet is probably the one that you get in the standard `nvidia-driver` package |
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| 11:37.16 | glaucom | BCMM: lightworks no exists in debian 9 strech packages |
| 11:37.16 | at0m | shayanthethief: before you install an nvidia driver, let nvidia-detect tell you /which/ to install |
| 11:37.31 | shayanthethief | how is that done? |
| 11:37.36 | BCMM | glaucom: right, it's not in debian repos. i was asking where you downloaded it from. |
| 11:37.52 | at0m | glaucom: lightworks does not exist on debian. i asked you where you got it from, yesterday, too |
| 11:37.57 | Scorpion2185 | rabbitear_sdf: virtual env? |
| 11:38.03 | rabbitear_sdf | BCMM: its very toxic to Scorpion2185 to know everything, again nite |
| 11:38.08 | glaucom | https://www.lwks.com/ in package .deb |
| 11:38.15 | BCMM | rabbitear_sdf: i still don't know what you're trying to say |
| 11:38.48 | BCMM | glaucom: there's a .deb package on their website, intended for ubuntu. some people on forums say they've got it working on debian, by installing dependancies from other debian releases. it's kind of a messy approach, though. |
| 11:39.07 | shayanthethief | I'm gonna try some old driver from 370-380 |
| 11:39.26 | BCMM | shayanthethief: have you looked at https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers ? |
| 11:39.45 | Scorpion2185 | later! |
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| 11:40.12 | BCMM | shayanthethief: unless you have a really old card, you probably want to do this https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_375.66 |
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| 11:40.33 | shayanthethief | BCMM oh nice, thanks m8 |
| 11:40.34 | glaucom | Got it. thank you. |
| 11:41.13 | glaucom | About Nvidia driver. I gave up installing on debian 9 strech. All of the procedures the gdm3 displays on an error screen something went wrong. :( |
| 11:41.45 | glaucom | I have a hybrid card in my notebook. intel hd graphics and gforce 740 m |
| 11:41.48 | BCMM | shayanthethief: 375.66 seems to be the default version in stretch. you can get a newer version from backports if you really want, but i would generally trust that the default version in debian stable is, well, stable |
| 11:42.21 | at0m | glaucom: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers/Optimus |
| 11:42.22 | shayanthethief | yeah i was thinking the same |
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| 11:43.26 | glaucom | it was through these same procedures that I did. at0m |
| 11:43.31 | Barones | glaucom, I had the same issue, and I have the same card |
| 11:43.54 | glaucom | root@desktop-bb0q7t0:/home/blackcat/Downloads# lspci | grep 3D |
| 11:43.54 | glaucom | 01:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK107M [GeForce GT 740M] (rev a1) |
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| 11:44.09 | Barones | just installed nvidia-340 |
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| 11:44.14 | Barones | use nvidia-detect |
| 11:45.00 | glaucom | Debian 9 strech Barones? |
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| 11:45.11 | Barones | yes |
| 11:45.22 | glaucom | k. you can help me in private w |
| 11:45.23 | glaucom | ? |
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| 11:45.42 | Barones | I followed debian-wiki |
| 11:45.45 | Barones | ok, call me |
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| 11:58.09 | converge | Sometimes when I do apt-get upgrade it pops up a msg '403 forbidden' and something telling me to use --fix-missing, is there a way to fix it ? |
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| 12:00.34 | glaucom | deu merda kkk |
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| 12:01.38 | converge | glaucom, quanta classe! :D |
| 12:01.58 | glaucom | uhauhau essa tela branca do gdm de algo deu errado kkk |
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| 12:03.52 | Barones | deu errado glaucom ? |
| 12:03.58 | BCMM | converge: it sounds like a bad mirror |
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| 12:04.30 | converge | BCMM, thanks, Im updating it now to a new one |
| 12:04.46 | themill | converge: deb.debian.org might make a better option |
| 12:05.02 | BCMM | converge: i.e. one of the sources in /etc/apt/sources.list points to a server that doesn't work any more. you don't use skype, do you? |
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| 12:05.38 | BCMM | i seem to recall some issues with their repo |
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| 12:06.04 | converge | BCMM, I don't use Skype often.. why ? |
| 12:06.24 | BCMM | converge: they use an additional repo for updates, and that repo has had problems in the past |
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| 12:06.28 | converge | themill, I changed it to another Brazilian mirror, same issue, I'll follow your suggestion |
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| 12:07.17 | BCMM | converge: you have run apt-get update recently, right? |
| 12:07.31 | converge | BCMM, yes.. always |
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| 12:07.58 | BCMM | converge: can you pastebin the error, so we can see exactly what is 403? |
| 12:08.22 | BCMM | if you have third-party sources, like chrome or skype, it might not be your debian mirror that's the problem |
| 12:08.34 | glaucom | lol |
| 12:08.39 | glaucom | :( |
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| 12:09.23 | converge | There is something wrong.. sounds like a connection issue, I get 403 even after update it to deb.debian.org, I'll paste it |
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| 12:11.32 | converge | BCMM, https://gist.github.com/converge/8798b98f6cc6b44e6aa7f6dd4c87db45 |
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| 12:15.21 | BCMM | converge: assuming your internet connections works OK otherwise, it sounds like there might actually be a bad mirror in the debian geomirror list... |
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| 12:16.08 | RoyK | BCMM: probably not the first time ;) |
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| 12:18.47 | BCMM | converge: before, were you using deb.debian.net or a local mirror? |
| 12:18.49 | themill | seems to work fine here |
| 12:19.02 | BCMM | themill: are you in brazil? |
| 12:19.13 | themill | no, talking to the same mirror as that one |
| 12:19.26 | BCMM | themill: as which? the github gist? |
| 12:19.42 | themill | 151.101.92.204 (fastly) |
| 12:19.48 | converge | Before the current mirror I was using the mirror set on line 2 and 3 here https://gist.github.com/converge/8798b98f6cc6b44e6aa7f6dd4c87db45 |
| 12:20.02 | converge | BCMM, Im in Brazil |
| 12:20.04 | BCMM | themill: ah! how can you explicitly request a particular fastly server? |
| 12:20.21 | themill | wget --header='Host: deb.debian.org' http://151.101.92.204/debian/pool/main/b/base-files/base-files_9.9+deb9u6_amd64.deb |
| 12:20.40 | themill | (there's probably a much nicer way of doing that) |
| 12:20.40 | BCMM | themill: oh, right. i was overthinking it, trying to do it in firefox. thanks! |
| 12:21.13 | BCMM | converge: yeah, it sounds like somebody is playing games with your internet connection... what sort of connection do you have? are you at a university? |
| 12:21.25 | BCMM | or some other kind of institution that might have a transparent http proxy? |
| 12:21.39 | converge | themill, wget output is: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden |
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| 12:21.59 | converge | BCMM, it's a common optical fiber connection |
| 12:22.14 | BCMM | converge: thing is, that works fine for me (and themill), so it's not the server that's the problem |
| 12:22.27 | BCMM | and if you were also getting 403 from a *different* server... |
| 12:22.33 | themill | yeah |
| 12:22.38 | BCMM | sounds like somebody intercepts your http traffic and gives you 403s |
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| 12:23.35 | BCMM | converge: what do you mean by "common"? is this your private home internet connection, or do you share it with some organisation? |
| 12:25.05 | converge | Thats strange, I have two connection/ips from same internet service provider, it works in one, and doesn't work on the other |
| 12:25.35 | rant | sounds like as was suggested you have a transparent firewall/proxy |
| 12:25.45 | BCMM | converge: it might be interesting to look at the full response headers (f12 in firefox) for the 403 |
| 12:26.03 | BCMM | converge: see if you can find out who is sending the response, because it's really not the server you asked for :) |
| 12:26.12 | case__ | hi everyone |
| 12:26.19 | converge | Sounds good |
| 12:26.40 | case__ | i have a boot problem with my fresh stretch installation when i put in an additional disk |
| 12:26.42 | BCMM | converge: these two lines, are they supposed to be exactly the same? |
| 12:27.01 | rant | case__: can you elaborate on what a boot problem is? |
| 12:27.02 | BCMM | converge: this isn't something like one of them is a general internet line, and one of them is just for a voip service or something? |
| 12:27.18 | converge | BCMM, I think so, they are physically 20km far |
| 12:27.24 | case__ | which - i think is because grub.cfg contains device names instead of UUIDs : linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-7-amd64 root=/dev/sda1 ro quiet |
| 12:27.44 | rant | case__: yes that can and will cause problems |
| 12:27.51 | BCMM | converge: so can you load a web page in a browser, for example? |
| 12:27.52 | case__ | question: how can i make grub use UUIDs ? |
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| 12:28.28 | case__ | i would have changed it by hand, but grub.cfg says: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE |
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| 12:28.38 | BCMM | converge: have you actually read the body of the 403 response? perhaps it says "your account has been suspended, please call $ISP" or something |
| 12:29.11 | BCMM | case__: and what does it say directly under that line? |
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| 12:29.14 | converge | BCMM, everything sounds good so far, but ok.. its just one package popping the issue, I'll check it tomorrow again |
| 12:29.24 | converge | Appreciate your help guys! |
| 12:30.25 | BCMM | case__: on debian, it says "It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub" - so you edit those files to accomplish changes |
| 12:30.29 | BCMM | your distro might differ, though |
| 12:30.33 | BCMM | oh wait we are in #debian sorry |
| 12:30.37 | BCMM | thought this was ##linux |
| 12:30.39 | case__ | BCMM: :-) - vi /etc/default/grub contains: #GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true |
| 12:31.32 | rant | thats commented out |
| 12:31.35 | BCMM | converge: from the gist, it looks like it's the *only* package you try that's giving the error |
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| 12:32.03 | BCMM | converge: try `curl http://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/b/base-files/base-files_9.9+deb9u6_amd64.deb` and see if the 403 page is informative |
| 12:32.16 | case__ | BCMM: I doesn't. I couldn't find anything helpful in /etc/grub.d |
| 12:33.09 | case__ | BCMM: (but i do not really understand what i'm searching for if it can be changed in /etc/grub.d) |
| 12:33.42 | BCMM | case__: are you sure grub isn't using uuids now? what does it say in /proc/cmdline for root=? |
| 12:34.20 | glaucom | any help install nvidia driver in hibrid ? now message "algo deu errado blank screen" |
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| 12:34.57 | case__ | BCMM: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-7-amd64 root=/dev/sda1 ro quiet |
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| 12:36.10 | BCMM | case__: that's odd, i thought it used uuid by default |
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| 12:36.25 | BCMM | it doesn't check the / entry in fstab or something, does it? |
| 12:36.35 | case__ | BCMM: Thats what i read everywhere :-) |
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| 12:36.41 | rant | case__: is ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/ populated with links to the disks? |
| 12:36.55 | case__ | BCMM: Maybe a faulty bios or something? |
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| 12:37.21 | case__ | rant: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Nov 9 18:45 de815e2a-b012-420c-9e3f-0e762a3a72a6 -> ../../sda1 |
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| 12:37.32 | rant | linux/grub doesn't really give a flying firetruck about the bios once it has control :P |
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| 12:38.10 | rant | case__: have you tried running update-grub and grub-install ? seeing if it changes the grub.cfg? |
| 12:38.25 | rant | it may be that the device filesystem wasnt right during install |
| 12:38.33 | rant | if its correct now, it may change |
| 12:38.56 | case__ | rant: I didn't. I will test this now. |
| 12:39.50 | case__ | rant: OMG - that works :-))) |
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| 12:40.15 | rant | case__: ah.. ok.. well that happens sometimes in the installer that the dev is not updated properly at time grub installs |
| 12:40.48 | rant | grub gets its info from the kernel when it installs/configures not the bios |
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| 12:41.03 | case__ | rant: Fairly easy to fix - if you know it ;) |
| 12:41.11 | rant | any info that is from the bios (which isnt UUIDs, cause those arent in the bios), comes from the kernel |
| 12:41.30 | case__ | Thanks very much |
| 12:41.45 | rant | no worries. |
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| 12:55.16 | case__ | test |
| 12:55.22 | rant | fail |
| 12:55.36 | case__ | nope - everything is fine ;) |
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| 12:56.34 | rant | if everything were fine I wouldnt be driving myself nuts trying to get these files backed up :P |
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| 13:01.27 | case__ | rsync? |
| 13:01.36 | rant | no trying to get the pictures off a phone |
| 13:02.10 | rant | any method with the pc is just doing nothing but hanging.. everytime I try use thumbdrive and the filemanager on the phone it does it, but I wind up with less on the thumbdrive than is on the phone |
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| 13:02.37 | rant | I'm trying it again though with a thumbdrive via OTG since thats the only thing thats trying to work |
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| 13:03.46 | rant | I almost dare say I hate android more than iTunes or Windows |
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| 13:04.05 | qman__ | rant: try using total commander instead of whatever built in file manager there is |
| 13:04.25 | rant | I'll try that if samsung files fails this time around |
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| 13:04.58 | rant | I been trying with debian with it in both files and photos mode, with thunar, caja, shotwell, etc.. they all just seem to hang indefinitely |
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| 13:05.35 | rant | granted that DCIM directory has idk maybe over 300 subdirs and total of probably nearly 100,000 photos over 5GB but still.. |
| 13:05.40 | BCMM | rant: aren't those all just gvfs browsers? |
| 13:05.53 | BCMM | rant: i.e. you're using the same mtp implementation with different front-ends |
| 13:06.16 | rant | I'm not using an Apple IIC here.. I got a damn Core i5 w/ 4gb ram and an SSD, and USB 3.0.. running the best OS there is |
| 13:06.34 | BCMM | rant: is this an android phone? |
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| 13:06.45 | rant | BCMM: yes well all are not equal.. caja has been really crappy as of late, especially when copying/moving files :P |
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| 13:06.53 | RoyK | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:06.56 | RoyK | oops |
| 13:07.02 | rant | BCMM: yes its a stock Verizon Galaxy S7 |
| 13:07.12 | BCMM | rant: you could try adb. mtp is kind of stupid. |
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| 13:07.19 | rant | yes it is.. |
| 13:07.34 | case__ | mtp is even awfully slow with only a few hundred photos - or is it just Samsung? |
| 13:07.55 | BCMM | no, mtp is, per se, just not very good |
| 13:08.10 | rant | I will try total commander and adb if this doesnt work.. but as of right now it seems to be 12,000 files into 90,000 files copying with samsung files to the thumbdrive.. |
| 13:08.22 | rant | I should be able to tell fairly easily if it got it all or not once its done |
| 13:08.26 | BCMM | android chose it because windows supported it out of the box, and windows supported it because of some ancient crappy mp3 players basically |
| 13:09.07 | RoyK | wonders if android/adb talk is strictly about debian ;) |
| 13:09.11 | rant | yes well this is one of many reasons I want a custom rom.. but I been avoiding even trying it cause I got data on here I haven't had any luck backing up |
| 13:09.27 | BCMM | rant: how does a custom rom help? |
| 13:09.28 | case__ | maybe it's possible to mount it an do it without any file manager that tries to read everything in advance ... |
| 13:09.39 | BCMM | rant: you don't need root to have an sshd :) |
| 13:10.10 | rant | samsung seems to support 3rd party roms.. options for it are in the stock software.. |
| 13:10.31 | BCMM | i usually get files off the phone with kde connect, over the wifi |
| 13:10.44 | rant | support as in allow and facilitate the use of them, not so much offer support |
| 13:11.04 | BCMM | yeah, they do the absolute opposite of actually offer support |
| 13:11.37 | BCMM | they permanently blow a fuse when you unlock the bootloader just so they'll always know the phone has no warranty |
| 13:11.42 | rant | idk about all the settings, apps, and such.. but I noticed google at least keeps track of what I have installed.. I gave up trying cause I failed numerous times and got tired of having to set everything up again |
| 13:12.24 | BCMM | case__: that's actually not a bad idea, in that it would at least involve using a different mtp implementation instead of just trying gvfs again |
| 13:12.46 | rant | yeah well I dont even have a sim in it.. no plans of using it as a phone.. just a powerful mobile device I use to map hikes, watch movies, take photos, etc. |
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| 13:12.56 | BCMM | i don't know if any of the fuse implementations of mtp are actually good though. the fact that there's so damn many of them suggests that they might not be |
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| 13:20.25 | case__ | If some ssh daemon can actually run on a non rooted android than that's the best solution - isn't it? So it's rsync again :) |
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| 13:30.38 | rant | yeah idk I usually just use a thumbdrive+otg+samsung files but I'm usually moving data ON to the phone to watch/listen/view on the go |
| 13:30.56 | JustASlacker | termux is nice |
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| 13:31.02 | JustASlacker | just scp it over :) |
| 13:31.09 | JustASlacker | or use samba |
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| 13:32.07 | rant | thing is I gotten so much of my stuff on there and while all these photos for example came from the PC, I've since pruned, organized, and edited them on the phone.. and now want that remastered collection back.. heh.. when I'm at the PC I dont really wanna sit there playing around with photos.. but when I'm on the go I am usually bored enough to flip through them and see whats what :P |
| 13:32.23 | rant | and since it now lets you do split screen.. I can be watchin a movie or something while I'm doin it |
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| 13:33.12 | JustASlacker | yeah, so, just scp those pictures to your pc |
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| 13:35.47 | rant | well as of right now it seems to be actually finishing the copy back to the thumbdrive for the first time ever.. if its actually copying the whole thing or not remains to be seen |
| 13:36.35 | case__ | rant: If most of the data keeps unchanged an in it's place it's *the* typical rsync -a --delete <phone> <pc> task |
| 13:37.13 | n4dir | "i'm usually bored enough". finally someone says it. |
| 13:37.37 | rant | well I'm more using the phone to go through the stuff and organize it.. something I rarely do when I'm sitting at the computer :P |
| 13:37.59 | rant | done more organization, deleting, and editing on this galaxy than I ever done on the laptop |
| 13:38.37 | rant | well unless you count batch operations which I do on the PC at time when I see something that can obviously be addressed with a script |
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| 13:39.25 | EdePopede | do the Bug Reports links on PDO *gerenally* point to unstable? |
| 13:40.02 | rant | EdePopede: most often, sure.. since stable isn't changing.. its where all the action is.. in sid.. |
| 13:40.53 | petn-randall | Not really. It just point to the bug reports for the package. |
| 13:40.56 | petn-randall | *points |
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| 13:41.15 | rant | which happen to be most often in sid versions :P |
| 13:41.17 | EdePopede | and this one redirects to unstable, at least for my few tests now |
| 13:41.33 | EdePopede | local: htop 2.0.2 -- PDO: Bugs in package htop (version 2.2.0-1+b1) in unstable <--- what now? |
| 13:41.46 | rant | mmm htop.. like that program.. |
| 13:42.17 | EdePopede | if a bug is fixed in unstable it still could be around in stable. that's... irritiating |
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| 13:42.56 | EdePopede | especially i can't say "there's a bug" since it is tagged as fixed, but i still have it here (together with all the users of stable) |
| 13:43.37 | rant | EdePopede: security flaws are patched, but other than that its not real common for things to change in most packages |
| 13:43.42 | rant | ,v htop |
| 13:43.43 | judd | Package: htop on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.1-1; jessie: 1.0.3-1; jessie-backports: 2.0.2-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.0.2-1; buster: 2.2.0-1+b1; sid: 2.2.0-1+b1 |
| 13:44.07 | EdePopede | rant: indeed, superior to all these gui versions of such tools. at least i didn't see a really usable so far |
| 13:44.10 | rant | EdePopede: you could do a ssb |
| 13:44.24 | EdePopede | s....pardon me? |
| 13:44.32 | n4dir | if it is fixed it usually is marked as fixed/unfixed in which version at bugs.debian.net. Even in a nice graphic. |
| 13:44.35 | n4dir | iirc |
| 13:44.36 | rant | EdePopede: /msg dpkg ssb |
| 13:44.44 | EdePopede | ah k i will |
| 13:45.06 | rant | EdePopede: its a really simple process for backporting from sid/buster a package that has changed.. |
| 13:45.19 | rant | EdePopede: you can also /msg judd checkbackport htop |
| 13:45.34 | rant | EdePopede: which will tell you if there are any issues that may prevent backporting to stable |
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| 13:46.16 | EdePopede | rant: had this some time ago. wanted to test out the brandnew mediawiki release. needed quite some changes, but didn't really hurt |
| 13:47.41 | rant | I dont mind mate-system-monitor and the one in XFCE while more simplistic isnt bad either.. but htop is nice cause you can run it over ssh/mosh in screen and such and its a really nice program |
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| 13:48.22 | rant | it is more featureful and customizable than many of the GUI ones, not to mention more flexible being able to run in a terminal |
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| 13:51.46 | EdePopede | and better designed. i don't see a reason of width=100px for the ID column and such. and resizing columns doesn't help. with the next update it is back at those values. half of the window is empty while half of the info is hidden. unless i make it fullscreen. |
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| 13:52.36 | EdePopede | and anyway, if it is about text, no need for fancy graphics. |
| 13:52.39 | shtrb | Other than usbmodemswitch and modem-manager are there essential packages to enable 3G connection for network-manager ? |
| 13:53.14 | shtrb | reinstalled, and I'm missing something 100% to get network-manager the ui option to connect to an apn |
| 13:53.43 | shtrb | (and mobile-broadband-provider-info is also installed) |
| 13:53.52 | rant | are you sure the hw is all good to go? drivers/firmware |
| 13:54.09 | shtrb | yes, I can connect with wvdial |
| 13:54.19 | rant | shrugs |
| 13:54.35 | shtrb | It's some ui package 100% (using plasma) |
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| 13:54.55 | rant | last I used one of those thats what I used wvdial.. network-manager was really new in debian back then |
| 13:55.15 | RNM | how to set zsh history only store unique value / not duplicate ? |
| 13:55.35 | jelly | RNM: #zsh channel might know the answer if there is one |
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| 13:56.15 | rant | that is a good question though.. I often thought it was rather annoying to have duplicates in my bash history |
| 13:56.40 | jelly | I never noticed that in my zsh history. |
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| 13:57.10 | linuxconformer | hey guys |
| 13:57.14 | linuxconformer | just a quick question |
| 13:57.19 | jelly | it certainly does not add a second instance of a command if you run the same thing a couple times in a row |
| 13:57.23 | rant | I considered writing a history manager before to help me keep and convert priceless one-liners to scripts |
| 13:57.34 | linuxconformer | can i run normal command line commands in a .sh script? |
| 13:57.36 | RNM | no one answer on #zsh.. |
| 13:57.48 | jelly | RNM: be patient, it's not a very large channel |
| 13:57.55 | BCMM | linuxconformer: how do you mean? as in, launch an interactive shell inside a script? |
| 13:57.55 | shtrb | linuxconformer, yes |
| 13:58.05 | linuxconformer | e.g. "cd mydir; sh ./some-program" > script.sh |
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| 13:58.20 | linuxconformer | BCMM: ^ |
| 13:58.21 | jelly | linuxconformer: of course |
| 13:58.23 | n4dir | linuxconformer: i would even say that is the main part of a bash/shell script. |
| 13:58.35 | BCMM | linuxconformer: yes. the shell isn't special. |
| 13:58.41 | n4dir | you might want to watch the video of the "shellhaters". |
| 13:58.43 | linuxconformer | oh, i thought shell scripting was using all the other syntax (of which i know very little) |
| 13:58.48 | BCMM | linuxconformer: by which i mean, it's just a command line program, like any other command line program |
| 13:59.10 | linuxconformer | got it, for some reason i thought there was a difference between normal terminal commands and shell scripts |
| 13:59.16 | BCMM | it can have its input and output redirected, it can be called from other programs, etc. |
| 13:59.27 | linuxconformer | but terminal is just a subset of shell scripts (if that makes sense) |
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| 13:59.40 | linuxconformer | i.e. same thing |
| 13:59.42 | linuxconformer | thanks |
| 13:59.54 | BCMM | linuxconformer: sorry, i misunderstood your initial question. but yes, shell scripts can do anything the shell can do. |
| 13:59.56 | shtrb | linuxconformer, a script should accept the syntax of your shell (via the shebang) |
| 13:59.58 | rant | only real difference between scripts and commands I can think of is the shebang |
| 14:00.01 | dvs | linuxconformer, it depends what the first line of the script file says. |
| 14:00.11 | linuxconformer | #/bin/bash |
| 14:00.11 | RNM | faster faster :P |
| 14:00.18 | BCMM | linuxconformer: #!, not just # |
| 14:00.22 | dvs | linuxconformer, yeah, then it's the same |
| 14:00.48 | BCMM | linuxconformer: if you're using #!/bin/bash, and bash is your regular shell, then yes the shell script will support all features of your shell |
| 14:01.15 | BCMM | (if you were using different shells as your script interpreter and your regular interactive shell, then they would of course differ) |
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| 14:02.33 | rant | and this is not the case with all shells.. as there will be differences between python interactive and python scripts |
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| 14:02.56 | linuxconformer | great, thanks. Also, is it possible to do a check on server status in the shell? |
| 14:03.22 | rant | systemctl status <service> |
| 14:03.45 | BCMM | linuxconformer: what do you mean by "server status"? |
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| 14:04.49 | linuxconformer | BCMM: i'm having some problems with a server randomly stopping running processes, so im writing a cron to see if that server is down, and if so to restart the programs |
| 14:04.55 | n4dir | linuxconformer: this guide explains lots of things quite well: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide |
| 14:05.01 | JustASlacker | linuxconformer: dont |
| 14:05.06 | linuxconformer | but i need to know the status of my server before i run my script |
| 14:05.08 | linuxconformer | why not? |
| 14:05.26 | JustASlacker | you can tell systemd / supervisor to do that |
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| 14:05.47 | BCMM | linuxconformer: ah - you have a linux machine you use as a server (web server?) and the service that's running on it inexplicably stops working? |
| 14:05.49 | JustASlacker | and there are existing ways to monitor linux systems |
| 14:05.58 | linuxconformer | BCMM: correct |
| 14:06.14 | linuxconformer | JustASlacker: monitoring is not the problem, but i want to automate the restarting process |
| 14:06.31 | linuxconformer | JustASlacker: hmm is systemd similar to cron? |
| 14:06.43 | linuxconformer | can i run arbitrary commands? |
| 14:06.46 | JustASlacker | yeah, put Restart=always in systemd |
| 14:07.06 | JustASlacker | no, its responsible for managing services. |
| 14:07.12 | JustASlacker | daemon processes |
| 14:07.34 | linuxconformer | JustASlacker: oh, so if my programs have PIDs, i can use systemD? |
| 14:07.43 | linuxconformer | wouldn't it need to know the initialization commands then? |
| 14:07.44 | JustASlacker | yeah |
| 14:07.53 | JustASlacker | linuxconfig.org/how-to-automatically-execute-shell-script-at-startup-boot-on-systemd-linux |
| 14:08.04 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: wouldn't it be better to diagnose the dying of the process instead of developing an auto-restart function? |
| 14:08.12 | rant | linuxconformer: systemd would have better access than cron, it wouldnt need to run on a time schedule, it would already know if it was running or not |
| 14:08.42 | linuxconformer | TvL2386: certainly, but the former i don't know how to do, and the latter i do |
| 14:08.43 | rant | linuxconformer: if your server process isnt already using a systemd unit (most all are) then you will need to create one to manage the service |
| 14:09.19 | rant | wanders off |
| 14:09.29 | linuxconformer | rant: i just put the .service file in /etc/systemd/system/ right? |
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| 14:09.38 | linuxconformer | e.g. /etc/systemd/system/uptime.service |
| 14:09.46 | JustASlacker | pretty much |
| 14:09.53 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: tell us more about this service, we might be able to help you diagnose the problem |
| 14:10.30 | linuxconformer | TvL2386: basically it's just docker-compose and a frontend client |
| 14:10.48 | linuxconformer | for some reason, it keeps stopping (randomly, but normally once a day) |
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| 14:10.57 | JustASlacker | docker also has an option to restart containers |
| 14:11.13 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: how is that process started? |
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| 14:11.53 | JustASlacker | blog.codeship.com/ensuring-containers-are-always-running-with-dockers-restart-policy/ |
| 14:11.56 | linuxconformer | TvL2386: docker using "docker-compose up -d" |
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| 14:12.10 | linuxconformer | in the app directory |
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| 14:12.22 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: I see... so your problem is that your container dies? |
| 14:12.55 | linuxconformer | TvL2386: i'm not totally sure what's causing the problem, because my frontend process also dies |
| 14:13.21 | JustASlacker | linuxconformer: put restart: always in your compose.yml |
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| 14:13.37 | case__ | does anyone know haw to effectively set the mariadb root password? i did "mysqladmin -h localhost password" and restarted but can still login without pw. |
| 14:13.45 | linuxconformer | JustASlacker: that seems way too simple, maybe it'll work though :P |
| 14:13.56 | linuxconformer | doesn't explain why it stops in the first place though |
| 14:14.17 | JustASlacker | docs.docker.com/v1.7/compose/yml/#working-dir-entrypoint-user-hostname-domainname-mem-limit-privileged-restart-stdin-open-tty-cpu-shares-cpuset-read-only |
| 14:14.43 | JustASlacker | that is left as an exercise for the read ^_^ |
| 14:14.46 | linuxconformer | also, it has another component which is started using a makefile, how can i restar this? |
| 14:15.01 | JustASlacker | maybe you want #docker |
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| 14:16.08 | linuxconformer | this is kind of why i want the restart script (at least until i figure out how to solve it properly) |
| 14:18.41 | linuxconformer | man cron seems so much easier |
| 14:19.48 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: I start docker containers on docker hosts with ansible and set "restart_policy: always" |
| 14:20.04 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: that's exactly what you want |
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| 14:20.35 | TvL2386 | and like JustASlacker said: you can put such a thing in your compose.yml |
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| 14:22.54 | JustASlacker | well, if you really think doing it via cron, nobody can stop you |
| 14:22.58 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: The reason it's so hard, is imho that you are trying to reinvent the wheel |
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| 14:23.24 | linuxconformer | TvL2386: i would put it in my docker-compose, but i also have a Makefile which has a "docker-run" command for the main part of the app |
| 14:23.25 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: you are doing container orchestration thingies |
| 14:23.36 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: first thing that comes to mind is a Kubernetes cluster |
| 14:24.07 | JustASlacker | It appears as your current setup is already crazy. |
| 14:24.17 | TvL2386 | yup :) |
| 14:24.20 | JustASlacker | adding more insanity on top isnt making things easier in the future |
| 14:24.31 | linuxconformer | JustASlacker: it's not mine, it's a forked open source application :P |
| 14:24.47 | linuxconformer | anyone, i'll try using always restart |
| 14:24.47 | TvL2386 | exactly! Redesign time!!! :D |
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| 14:24.58 | tarcript | hello |
| 14:25.04 | TvL2386 | hi |
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| 14:25.10 | linuxconformer | TvL2386: hahaha i'm not paid enough to do a redesign |
| 14:25.19 | tarcript | someone can help me? I have my internet very slow |
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| 14:25.36 | tarcript | with debian stretch |
| 14:25.44 | tarcript | in windows work well and speed |
| 14:25.51 | TvL2386 | I'd like my internet well-baked with bacon |
| 14:25.58 | tarcript | haha |
| 14:26.36 | tarcript | My eth0 is enp0s31f6 and wlan wlp61s0 |
| 14:26.40 | tarcript | Now I use eth0 .. |
| 14:26.45 | tarcript | But internet work slow ... |
| 14:28.06 | tarcript | I installed the privative firmware iwlwifi |
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| 14:29.57 | linuxconformer | should i use shutdown or reboot for a soft restart? |
| 14:30.14 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: I always use reboot |
| 14:30.33 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: but `shutdown -r now` could also be done |
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| 14:30.53 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: what's a soft restart anyways? |
| 14:31.32 | linuxconformer | TvL2386: all processes are stopped safely |
| 14:31.49 | TvL2386 | linuxconformer: ah ok, well `reboot` is fine |
| 14:31.58 | JustASlacker | isnt hard restart basically "pull the plug"? |
| 14:32.18 | TvL2386 | JustASlacker: as in pushing the reset button |
| 14:32.43 | JustASlacker | PULL THE PLUG!!!11! |
| 14:33.18 | linuxconformer | pretty much |
| 14:33.29 | linuxconformer | you guys know what "if [ $? -ne 0 ]" does? |
| 14:33.39 | linuxconformer | (bash) |
| 14:33.47 | greycat | Demonstrates your incompetence. |
| 14:34.11 | linuxconformer | greycat: i'm pretty sure it was demonstrated far earlier tbh |
| 14:34.14 | TvL2386 | ROFLMAO |
| 14:34.56 | TvL2386 | yep... definitely a murder... take my upvote :) |
| 14:35.09 | greycat | Your script has some block of code like foo bar; if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then baz; fi |
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| 14:35.30 | greycat | It should just do this instead: if ! foo bar; then baz; fi |
| 14:35.34 | greycat | Or even this: foo bar || baz |
| 14:36.20 | shtrb | ,v modem-manager-qt |
| 14:36.21 | judd | No package named 'modem-manager-qt' was found in amd64. |
| 14:36.39 | shtrb | ,v modemmanager-qt |
| 14:36.40 | judd | No package named 'modemmanager-qt' was found in amd64. |
| 14:37.17 | BCMM | linuxconformer: in a system where 0 is false and nonzero is true, asking "if $? is not equal to 0" is equivalent to asking "if $?" |
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| 14:38.03 | BCMM | although i think i just flipped truthiness upside down, as it applies to exit status |
| 14:38.12 | greycat | BCMM: more to the point, it demonstrates the common fallacy that bash's "if" statement needs a left square bracket, a test expression, and a right square bracket. It's complete bunk. |
| 14:38.58 | linuxconformer | ping -c 3 $SERVER_URL > /dev/null 2>&1 |
| 14:38.58 | linuxconformer | could i do "ping -c 3 example.com > /dev/null 2>&1; if ... fi"? |
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| 14:39.12 | greycat | Do you want to act on SUCCESS, or on FAILURE of the ping? |
| 14:39.12 | JustASlacker | maybe you want #bash |
| 14:39.13 | linuxconformer | where ... is basically just rebooting |
| 14:39.15 | BCMM | greycat: because the [ ] block is basically just another command which provides an exit status, right? |
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| 14:39.21 | greycat | BCMM: yes |
| 14:39.24 | linuxconformer | greycat: i want reboot on 404 |
| 14:39.28 | JustASlacker | the guys at #bash need a laugh too |
| 14:39.34 | greycat | linuxconformer: then use curl or something, not ping. |
| 14:39.55 | greycat | you can't ping a URL anyway |
| 14:39.57 | BCMM | linuxconformer: 404 is a concept within http |
| 14:40.14 | BCMM | linuxconformer: with ping, you're basically just checking if the computer is running and plugged in to the network |
| 14:40.25 | greycat | and has the correct IP |
| 14:40.26 | TvL2386 | maybe linuxconformer wants to act on exitstatus 404 ? |
| 14:40.26 | BCMM | linuxconformer: ping will succeed even if your http server isn't running at all |
| 14:40.38 | greycat | TvL2386: that's why I suggested curl |
| 14:40.39 | linuxconformer | not sure, i just want to check if my app is running and if not to reboot |
| 14:40.48 | TvL2386 | exit status of an application |
| 14:40.53 | BCMM | linuxconformer: (if you want to know if your http server has crashed, you *still* won't be getting a 404, because 404 is a response from the server) |
| 14:40.54 | TvL2386 | as in: exit(404) |
| 14:41.13 | greycat | Why not configure your system to restart the application if the application crashes? Or do you actually think you need a full reboot? |
| 14:41.34 | greycat | TvL2386: that's nonsensical. Exit status is an unsigned 8-bit number anyway. |
| 14:41.43 | TvL2386 | greycat: ah darn |
| 14:41.47 | greycat | wooledg:~$ (exit 404); echo $? |
| 14:41.47 | greycat | 148 |
| 14:41.49 | linuxconformer | greycat: i need something while i implement a system version of of restart |
| 14:42.14 | greycat | linuxconformer: curl -s "$your_url" || ssh root@thing reboot |
| 14:42.15 | linuxconformer | greycat: and i know full reboot definitely works |
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| 14:42.30 | TvL2386 | greycat: cool :) |
| 14:42.35 | greycat | add curl and ssh options to suit your needs |
| 14:42.36 | TvL2386 | that exit status |
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| 14:42.55 | greycat | wooledg:~$ echo $((404 & 255)) |
| 14:42.55 | greycat | 148 |
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| 14:43.14 | shtrb | ,v modemmanager-qt |
| 14:43.15 | judd | No package named 'modemmanager-qt' was found in amd64. |
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| 14:43.42 | shtrb | any idea how does judd don't see it where it's in https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/modemmanager-qt ? |
| 14:44.39 | greycat | modemmanager-qt is the source package name. You want the binary package(s). |
| 14:44.50 | greycat | ,v libkf5modemmanagerqt6 |
| 14:44.51 | judd | Package: libkf5modemmanagerqt6 on amd64 -- stretch: 5.28.0-1; buster: 5.49.0-1; sid: 5.51.0-1 |
| 14:45.04 | shtrb | oh , so that not my problem thanks |
| 14:45.05 | greycat | On the tracker page you already gave, left hand side, under "binaries". |
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| 14:45.53 | linuxconformer | great, i'll give that a shot |
| 14:45.55 | linuxconformer | thanks for the help guys |
| 14:46.06 | TvL2386 | yw |
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| 14:49.37 | linuxconformer | greycat: is it possible to reboot on anything other than 200? |
| 14:50.42 | greycat | curl can be told to convey all kinds of information. Ask in #curl or read the man page. |
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| 14:52.41 | colo-work | curl -w '%{http_code}\n' |
| 14:52.47 | colo-work | is what you'll be looking for |
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| 14:53.19 | greycat | that writes the code to stdout, so he would need to capture it and then compare it with a test expression of some kind |
| 14:53.32 | cusco | hello, is there a simple bin/tool to rotate strings like rot13, but where I can specify the number of the rotation? |
| 14:53.45 | greycat | rot13 is /usr/games/rot13 |
| 14:53.52 | cusco | what package provides rot13? |
| 14:53.59 | greycat | caesar is /usr/games/caesar |
| 14:54.06 | cusco | tks |
| 14:54.06 | greycat | ,v usr/games/caesar |
| 14:54.08 | judd | No package named 'usr/games/caesar' was found in amd64. |
| 14:54.11 | greycat | ,file usr/games/caesar |
| 14:54.15 | judd | Search for usr/games/caesar in stretch/amd64: bsdgames: usr/games/caesar |
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| 14:54.49 | greycat | rot13 is just a shell script that runs exec /usr/games/caesar 13 "$@" |
| 14:55.02 | greycat | plus 37 lines of silly comments |
| 14:55.30 | greycat | including two DIFFERENT version control IDs |
| 14:55.35 | colo-work | yup, he would |
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| 14:57.30 | discovered1 | Is my sources.list looks fine? https://pastebin.com/APpjdkx8 |
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| 14:58.52 | majest1c | When Im running the command "python -m pip install jupyter" then I get an error "prompt-toolkit 1.0.15 has requirement six>=1.9.0, but you'll have six 1.8.0 which is incompatible" I have googled but cannot find a fix |
| 14:59.13 | tarcript | hello |
| 14:59.18 | tarcript | someone can help me? |
| 14:59.23 | tarcript | my internet in debian is very slow |
| 14:59.27 | greycat | majest1c: start with "apt-cache search --names-only py six" |
| 15:00.24 | majest1c | greycat: Im getting this output; http://paste.debian.net/1051408/ |
| 15:00.49 | babilen | discovered1: Looks alright |
| 15:01.06 | greycat | So you investigate all of the likely-looking packages, see which ones you have installed, see which one is version 1.8.0, see whether that one has a backport. |
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| 15:02.17 | greycat | If there is no backport of whichever package is giving you grief, then you have to face the hard decisions, like whether to encapsulate your entire project in a python virtualenv, or whether to install an upstream version of this "six" thing system-wide. |
| 15:02.27 | tarcript | one question |
| 15:02.50 | tarcript | I have sid repo in my debian 9 stable |
| 15:02.52 | tarcript | it is ok? |
| 15:02.53 | majest1c | greycat: Why isnt there just an easy fix, like upgrading six or something |
| 15:02.59 | Fox | tarcript: no it's not |
| 15:03.03 | shtrb | !frankendebian |
| 15:03.03 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 15:03.13 | tarcript | deb http://ftp.ch.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free |
| 15:03.41 | tarcript | Fox: why? |
| 15:03.58 | tarcript | via sid I get newest software |
| 15:03.59 | Fox | tarcript: look what dpkg just said |
| 15:04.16 | tarcript | Fox: the problem now |
| 15:04.19 | Fox | then use full sid, or you'll end up with a totaly broken os |
| 15:04.20 | tarcript | When I quit sid repo |
| 15:04.27 | tarcript | I have very errors |
| 15:04.29 | greycat | You do not "quit" sid. |
| 15:04.31 | tarcript | with dependies |
| 15:04.35 | tarcript | remove |
| 15:04.36 | greycat | You are on sid. It is too late to turn back. |
| 15:04.41 | tarcript | lol |
| 15:04.42 | tarcript | ok |
| 15:04.43 | greycat | You are on sid forever. |
| 15:04.47 | tarcript | hahaha |
| 15:04.48 | jelly | tarcript: mixing different releases is not supported. You can't go back to an earlier release |
| 15:04.49 | tarcript | oh yeah |
| 15:05.33 | tarcript | https://pastebin.com/qkri2u4L |
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| 15:05.36 | tarcript | my repos |
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| 15:05.56 | Fox | what a mess :) |
| 15:05.57 | greycat | I'm not even going to open it. I'm already terrified by the word "repos". |
| 15:06.11 | tarcript | hahah |
| 15:06.18 | greycat | People who use that word think that they are on some flavor of Ubuntu. They add repositories from all over the web. |
| 15:06.23 | tarcript | sorry my english is not very good |
| 15:06.31 | greycat | It's not about your English, which is fine. |
| 15:06.36 | greycat | It's about your approach to Debian. |
| 15:06.59 | greycat | I bet some of your "repos" have the string "ppa" in them too. |
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| 15:07.57 | tarcript | greycat: ppa where? |
| 15:08.08 | tarcript | no no I don't have ppa |
| 15:08.13 | greycat | Oh, was that an incorrect guess? One point for you, then. |
| 15:08.43 | tarcript | hehe |
| 15:08.52 | tarcript | but now all is ok when the sid repo? |
| 15:08.58 | tarcript | I can continue using sid |
| 15:09.00 | Fox | you just mix stretch, strech-backports, jessie and sid :) |
| 15:09.01 | tarcript | and not problem? |
| 15:09.11 | tarcript | I remove jessie now |
| 15:09.14 | tarcript | removed |
| 15:09.23 | tarcript | stretch, strech-backports and sid |
| 15:09.25 | tarcript | is good? |
| 15:09.28 | Fox | no |
| 15:09.36 | tarcript | ok, then I change all to sid? |
| 15:09.45 | Fox | you should have stretch+backports OR sid, not both |
| 15:10.00 | greycat | And it's too late for the backports choice. |
| 15:10.00 | tarcript | sid have included backports? |
| 15:10.04 | Fox | you should ask somewhere else |
| 15:10.08 | majest1c | greycat: Everything is basically version 1.8.0 and all are installed; http://paste.debian.net/1051411/ |
| 15:10.08 | Fox | !debian-next |
| 15:10.09 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 15:10.20 | Fox | tarcript: sid can't have backports |
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| 15:10.42 | tarcript | Fox why? |
| 15:10.48 | greycat | majest1c: well, YOU are the python guy here, not me. Which package is the "real" one, the key one, the critical one, the one that's actually being used for stuff? Does that package have a backport? |
| 15:10.57 | tarcript | Fox: what you recommend to me to do? |
| 15:10.59 | Fox | sid always has the latest version, but it might be broken, sid = unstable |
| 15:11.05 | tarcript | ah ok |
| 15:11.08 | Fox | I don't recommend anything |
| 15:11.22 | tarcript | ok I removed backports |
| 15:11.26 | greycat | backports are source packages taken FROM sid and recompiled to work on stable |
| 15:11.30 | Fox | you have 2 options: reinstall and stick to stretch+backports or go with full sid, your choise |
| 15:12.08 | tarcript | how I can go with full sid? |
| 15:12.14 | tarcript | I dont will reinstall |
| 15:12.23 | greycat | remove all non-sid sources |
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| 15:12.51 | tarcript | and why not sid and stable? |
| 15:12.57 | tarcript | now my sistem work fine with both |
| 15:12.59 | greycat | because they are fundamentally incompatible |
| 15:13.08 | tarcript | but work ok |
| 15:13.13 | Fox | for now |
| 15:13.16 | tarcript | ok |
| 15:13.19 | tarcript | then I remove |
| 15:13.24 | Fox | but one day it will break, and you'll be screwed |
| 15:13.56 | tarcript | but now I have |
| 15:13.58 | tarcript | deb http://ftp.ch.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free |
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| 15:14.05 | tarcript | sid main contrib non-free only |
| 15:14.14 | Fox | that's ok |
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| 15:14.26 | babilen | tarcript: You might want to read https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable, install apt-listbugs (configure it to show important bugs as well) and a glimpse at https://debian-handbook.info/browse/squeeze/sect.release-lifecycle.html might also be of interest |
| 15:14.46 | tarcript | but I have non-free only |
| 15:14.50 | tarcript | not all is sid |
| 15:15.03 | tarcript | deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main |
| 15:15.05 | Fox | you have main, contrib and non-free |
| 15:15.18 | Fox | remove every non-sid line |
| 15:15.34 | tarcript | deb http://ftp.es.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main |
| 15:15.34 | Fox | if you want to move to sid only |
| 15:15.35 | tarcript | and this? |
| 15:15.45 | tarcript | for updates |
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| 15:15.49 | babilen | tarcript: If you track sid, you *only* have sid in your sources.list as new versions/security fixes are uploaded directly |
| 15:16.18 | babilen | You might want to consider tracking a testing/unstable mix |
| 15:16.20 | babilen | dpkg: tum |
| 15:16.21 | dpkg | «echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf», edit sources.list, copy your non-security testing lines and change one set to unstable, then apt-get update. Use apt-get -t unstable install foo; to install foo from unstable rather than testing as usual. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release: set Preferences->Distribution. |
| 15:16.22 | tarcript | ok I removed all |
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| 15:16.28 | tarcript | now I have only: deb http://ftp.ch.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free |
| 15:16.33 | majest1c | greycat: I searched for the package python-six which should be the critical one; https://packages.debian.org/stretch/python-six . Im not so good with linux, how would I go on to install a backport? |
| 15:16.38 | babilen | But all of this should be discussed in #debian-next over on irc.debian.org (aka irc.oftc.net) |
| 15:16.43 | greycat | ,v python-six |
| 15:16.44 | judd | Package: python-six on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.1.0-2; jessie: 1.8.0-1; jessie-backports: 1.10.0-3~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.10.0-3; buster: 1.11.0-2; sid: 1.11.0-2 |
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| 15:16.57 | greycat | majest1c: ... are you not on stable? |
| 15:17.18 | tarcript | I hope my debian not crash |
| 15:17.18 | tarcript | ... |
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| 15:17.32 | tarcript | and what about |
| 15:17.39 | tarcript | when debian 10 released? |
| 15:17.47 | greycat | tarcript: you will still be on sid. |
| 15:17.51 | Fox | it's already too late for you |
| 15:17.55 | tarcript | ok |
| 15:18.17 | tarcript | then debina sid is like rolling release |
| 15:18.20 | tarcript | like arch linux |
| 15:18.21 | tarcript | haha |
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| 15:18.37 | linuxconformer | guys, i put the "start app" cronjob, and i can find it as a process, but it doesn't have the same effect as when i run the ./start-app script myself |
| 15:18.37 | greycat | It's a rolling non-release. |
| 15:18.41 | linuxconformer | (502 vs 200) |
| 15:19.04 | linuxconformer | any ideas what might be causing this discrepency? |
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| 15:20.00 | majest1c | greycat: I'm on Debian 8.11 |
| 15:20.35 | greycat | majest1c: well, the obvious thing to do would be to upgrade to stable. But if you can't do that, then good news! There is a jessie-backports version. |
| 15:20.42 | greycat | !jessie-backports |
| 15:20.42 | dpkg | Some packages intended for Stretch (Debian 9) but recompiled for use with "Jessie" (8.x) can be found in the "jessie-backports" repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . A suitable line for your sources.list is «deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports main». Also ask me about <bdo>. |
| 15:20.50 | tarcript | my question now is |
| 15:20.56 | tarcript | debian sid have not version? |
| 15:20.57 | majest1c | Thanks! |
| 15:21.09 | Fox | tarcript: no |
| 15:21.09 | babilen | dpkg: tell tarcript about enter |
| 15:21.32 | tarcript | Fox: cool |
| 15:21.33 | tarcript | xD |
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| 15:26.31 | linuxconformer | anyone know? |
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| 15:31.12 | jelly | linuxconformer: use a pastebin to show which exact commands you're running to check for things, their actual output and their expected output |
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| 15:32.18 | linuxconformer | jelly: just this one doesn't work "@reboot /debian/projects/app/start-app.sh" |
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| 15:32.25 | linuxconformer | not sure how to find output though |
| 15:33.29 | greycat | Oh, so this is NOT the curl-or-reboot check? |
| 15:34.06 | greycat | Output would be emailed to the job's owner. That's how cron has always worked. That's why past versions of Debian used to FORCE YOU to set up your email properly. |
| 15:34.12 | linuxconformer | greycat: nope, this is my on-boot script |
| 15:34.18 | linuxconformer | oh ok |
| 15:34.25 | greycat | Current version of Debian for some reason lets people get away with not configuring their basic MTA. It's horrifying. |
| 15:34.44 | linuxconformer | oh i figured it out |
| 15:34.50 | linuxconformer | apparently it needed sudo |
| 15:34.58 | linuxconformer | even though i'm running contab -e sudo |
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| 15:35.25 | jelly | greycat: cron package still Recommends: exim4 | postfix | mail-transport-agent, so it's rather hard not to see any notice about configuring a MTA |
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| 15:37.12 | linuxconformer | i got the MTA notice |
| 15:37.13 | jelly | linuxconformer: "crontab -e sudo" probably does not do whatever you're expecting it to do |
| 15:37.15 | linuxconformer | postfix |
| 15:37.41 | linuxconformer | jelly: yeah apparently. i thought it allowed cron to run all jobs with sudo permissions |
| 15:37.44 | linuxconformer | guess i was wrong |
| 15:38.22 | greycat | If you want to run stuff in cron as root, you either become root and then run "crontab -e" (not recommended), or you simply use /etc/crontab (recommended). |
| 15:38.35 | greycat | If you want to START A SERVICE AT BOOT TIME, you can just use /etc/rc.local |
| 15:38.52 | greycat | At least as a stopgap measure until you're ready to write a systemd unit file for it. |
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| 15:44.36 | JustASlacker | how is crontab -e as root not recommended? |
| 15:44.46 | JustASlacker | cron does not look so easy now, does it |
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| 15:47.52 | JustASlacker | crontab -e does validation, editing /etc/crontab does not |
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| 15:51.59 | FinalX | imo you should use seperate cron-files in /etc/cron.d/ and such. much better to manage / overview what's going on. but I do agree that the input validation of crontab -e is nice.. however, it does put the tasks somewhere entirely different from those system-tasks installed by packages and such. |
| 15:52.37 | JustASlacker | nods |
| 15:52.59 | JustASlacker | Id agree on putting file in cron.d. works nice with puppet and ansible |
| 15:53.13 | greycat | In any case, an @reboot in a root cron job is just crazy. |
| 15:53.35 | greycat | @reboot is for end user stuff since end users can't edit /etc/rc.local |
| 15:53.38 | JustASlacker | I said crazy like, an hour ago |
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| 15:55.42 | JustASlacker | linuxconfig.org/how-to-automatically-execute-shell-script-at-startup-boot-on-systemd-linux |
| 15:55.52 | JustASlacker | Ill just leave this here... |
| 15:57.08 | greycat | That example really should have "Type=oneshot" too. |
| 15:57.17 | FinalX | I disagree with /etc/rc.local, that's a last resort of people that don't really know how to manage their system. The systemd approach is much healthier, and gives you a lot of tools as well |
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| 15:57.25 | FinalX | (I also disagree with the @reboot cron btw..) |
| 15:59.36 | JustASlacker | well, /etc/rc.local has a nice old school vibe to it |
| 15:59.53 | JustASlacker | use that on slackware and the *BSD |
| 16:00.01 | FinalX | if I find anyone at work using that I'm off to grab my LART and pay a visit to their desk |
| 16:00.11 | JustASlacker | only confusing on systemd manages systems |
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| 16:00.35 | *** topic/#debian by jelly -> Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.6 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 16:00.46 | jelly | topic diff: 9.6 |
| 16:00.49 | JustASlacker | FinalX: I like your sensible approach |
| 16:00.51 | *** mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 16:01.16 | JustASlacker | a scholar and a gentleman |
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| 16:04.26 | linuxconformer | jelly, i tried to put "export VAR=XYZ" in a shell script executed by crontab, but i don't think it's working |
| 16:04.34 | linuxconformer | is this normal behaviour? |
| 16:04.40 | greycat | What did you expect that to do? |
| 16:04.57 | linuxconformer | to do the same thing that "export VAR=XYZ && ./start-app" would do |
| 16:04.58 | greycat | Setting a variable in a program and then running the program does ... nothing. |
| 16:05.20 | greycat | Did you run ./start-app in the same script as the export? Does ./start-app CARE about this variable? |
| 16:06.06 | linuxconformer | ok so this is normally how it works: i run "export ..." in my terminal, and then i run my application, and it works fine |
| 16:06.20 | linuxconformer | so i assumed i could do the same in a script |
| 16:06.35 | linuxconformer | or should i do it in a single line? |
| 16:07.06 | greycat | Doesn't matter how many lines you use. The variable has to be set at the time you execute the program that USES the variable. |
| 16:07.16 | linuxconformer | e.g. for "start-services.sh" it should have "export ... && ./start-app.sh" |
| 16:07.29 | greycat | Just putting the line export FOO=BAR in a script and running the script does LITERALLY NOTHING. The variable is gone after the script exits. |
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| 16:08.12 | linuxconformer | greycat: er so having "export ...\n ./run/my/app" won't work? |
| 16:08.37 | linuxconformer | but doing "export ..." in one line of my terminal and then "./run/my/app" in the next will? |
| 16:08.41 | jelly | linuxconformer: try to do this in your interactive shell: export VAR=XYZ && echo "$VAR" |
| 16:08.58 | greycat | linuxconformer: oh, now the script has MORE THAN JUST the export in it? Yay. Progress is made. |
| 16:09.14 | jelly | linuxconformer: it will not show what you expect it to unless VAR was set even before that |
| 16:09.20 | greycat | jelly: you might be mistaken here |
| 16:09.45 | greycat | you are probably confusing it with VAR=foo echo "$VAR" |
| 16:10.04 | jelly | ok, I'm wrong there |
| 16:10.57 | linuxconformer | but running "export ... && ./run/my/script" should make that var accessible to the script right? |
| 16:11.05 | linuxconformer | (as one line in my shell script) |
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| 16:11.13 | greycat | yes |
| 16:11.23 | greycat | again, does not matter how many lines you use |
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| 16:13.13 | linuxconformer | grey: er so you're saying[ 1: export VAR=foo; 2: ./run/my/app ] should also work? |
| 16:13.18 | greycat | yes |
| 16:13.34 | linuxconformer | strange, my app wasn't reading the export value |
| 16:13.39 | greycat | Prove it. |
| 16:14.09 | linuxconformer | well my application requires these vars to access assets, and it's saying the path doesn't exist |
| 16:14.09 | greycat | Start with "ps auxwwe | grep my/app" and see the environment that the process was actually started with. |
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| 16:15.47 | jelly | to have a look at the environment of a running process on Linux: cat /proc/PIDHERE/environ | tr '\0' '\n' |
| 16:15.54 | jelly | refrain from UUOC comment, please |
| 16:16.36 | linuxconformer | ok the one-line command worked |
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| 16:16.56 | greycat | jelly: given that you probably need sudo for the cat (but not for the tr), it becomes less of a UUOC |
| 16:17.07 | linuxconformer | so "export ... && ./run/my/app" worked in my bash file, but "1: export ...\n2: ./run/my/app" did not |
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| 16:17.22 | greycat | linuxconformer: Prove it. |
| 16:17.41 | linuxconformer | greycat: lol my client can now access assets |
| 16:17.44 | linuxconformer | QED |
| 16:17.53 | greycat | ... |
| 16:18.18 | linuxconformer | is that not sufficient proof? |
| 16:18.20 | jelly | that's a higher level symptom and does not prove or deny env.var. being set or unset |
| 16:18.25 | greycat | "I tried random shit and one time it worked and one time it didn't work so obviously Trees Have Feathers" |
| 16:19.07 | greycat | You were told two different ways to view the initial environment of a Linux process. Try using one of them. |
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| 16:20.26 | linuxconformer | greycat: should this be run in my script? |
| 16:20.32 | jelly | however, Debian's /bin/sh might know have "export a=b" syntax? |
| 16:20.37 | linuxconformer | (where the export is) |
| 16:20.38 | jelly | s/know/not/ ? |
| 16:21.08 | greycat | It's standard POSIX syntax. |
| 16:21.32 | jelly | greycat: and I don't see it in "man dash" on stretch |
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| 16:22.00 | jelly | oh, I do |
| 16:22.36 | jelly | requires more coffee |
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| 16:23.49 | jelly | linuxconformer: you run the check anywhere after the misbehaving process is started |
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| 16:25.04 | pagios | hi all, is there a way to record what a user is doing on a shell ? like to monitor his work and paly back later on ? |
| 16:25.43 | greycat | you can run "script" to save your terminal stuff in a file |
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| 16:28.52 | pagios | greycat, i was thinking of tmux |
| 16:29.00 | pagios | if i can record the tmux logs to a file or something |
| 16:31.39 | jelly | screen has output logging, however the user can easily disable it |
| 16:31.43 | pagios | like i run an ssh session, it starts recording, i exit, it stop recording and spits out a file or something |
| 16:33.51 | n4dir | jelly: can you quickly tell me how to look at screens output logging? |
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| 16:34.24 | RNM | i use script to log ssh terminal |
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| 16:34.59 | greycat | I get the impression he does not want to have to rely on the end user typing "script". He wants it to be automatic. Most likely a secret, illegal espionage. |
| 16:35.00 | RNM | script -a -f -q -c "ssh user@ayamgoreng.sedap.com" /home/rnm/SSH_LOGS/ssh-$1-$(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-).log |
| 16:35.23 | RNM | script -a -f -q -c "ssh user@ayamgoreng.sedap.com" /home/rnm/SSH_LOGS/ssh-ayamgoreng-$(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-).log |
| 16:35.31 | pagios | RNM, but if the user doesnt exit the ssh shell, script will save the file or not/ |
| 16:35.59 | RNM | save, you can see if it fail or success |
| 16:37.02 | pagios | RNM, the user will access the system via ssh, and most likely wont write exit, so if i include script on the .bashrc and he doesnt write exit the script wont save a typescript file |
| 16:37.34 | RNM | yes, put it on bashrc or zshrc |
| 16:37.36 | RNM | here |
| 16:37.38 | RNM | https://gist.github.com/RobbiNespu/85d43746530e2bd59fb684d0afd3d571 |
| 16:38.46 | RNM | please remove reverse port 52698. I use it for remote sublimetext |
| 16:38.54 | pagios | RNM, this works even when i dont finish my commands with an exit/ even when i close putty with the X close |
| 16:39.37 | RNM | yes |
| 16:40.09 | pagios | so on each new command write you ssh to that server and update the file? |
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| 16:41.12 | glaucom | https://imgur.com/a/bO3KBmk |
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| 16:41.38 | RNM | yes.. instead of too much asking. try it your self |
| 16:42.11 | pagios | RNM, on each new command i am getting a new file |
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| 16:45.18 | RNM | nope, it eat your lifespan |
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| 16:47.09 | jelly | n4dir: less ~/screenlog.0 ? |
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| 16:48.03 | n4dir | jelly: found something similar in the manpage. That file doesn't seem to exist. But now i know the feature exists, i will try to figure it out. Good hint, didn't know t. |
| 16:48.11 | jelly | n4dir: it's not present befofe you enable it |
| 16:48.15 | n4dir | as in: enable back an forth. |
| 16:48.41 | n4dir | jelly: ah, i misunderstood then (thought it would be enabled per default, and can be disabled). Thanks for the info |
| 16:48.44 | jelly | n4dir: ^a h (look for "hardcopy" in the manual or online help) |
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| 16:49.21 | jelly | n4dir: er,sorry, no, ^a H ("log") |
| 16:49.32 | n4dir | yeah, fine. i think i got the main idea. |
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| 16:53.53 | Barones | Can I use nemo with gnome? |
| 16:54.43 | rant | ,i nemo |
| 16:54.44 | judd | Package nemo (misc, optional) in stretch/amd64: File manager and graphical shell for Cinnamon. Version: 3.2.2-3; Size: 966.7k; Installed: 3229k; Homepage: http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/nemo |
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| 16:55.04 | rant | yes |
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| 17:00.46 | vadmeste | Hey, does someone use Chromium under Debian ? It seems it doesn't support VP9 anymo(re https://html5test.com/), Could someone confirm before I file a bug ? |
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| 17:01.34 | jelly | vadmeste: which debian release? |
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| 17:04.53 | sharp15 | is debian compatible with secureb boot? |
| 17:04.58 | sharp15 | *secure |
| 17:05.46 | vadmeste | jelly: Debian GNU/Linux 9 |
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| 17:11.30 | jelly | sharp15: no, the next version might be |
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| 17:20.55 | jelly | vadmeste: I can confirm current version of chromium:i386 (= 70.0.3538.67-1~deb9u1) shows the "WebM with VP9 support" test as failed, but I do not know whether it really does not support vp9 |
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| 17:25.09 | choice | What is a good way to keep a logfile at a certain length? |
| 17:25.26 | choice | Like only keep the most recent 10000 lines or the most recent 1 MB in it. |
| 17:25.51 | SerajewelKS | choice: logrotate? |
| 17:25.59 | choice | SerajewelKS: But then I have multiple logfiles. |
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| 17:26.08 | SerajewelKS | choice: only if you configure it to have multiple logfiles |
| 17:26.25 | glaucom | any with hybrid video card? gforce |
| 17:26.34 | choice | SerajewelKS: What will it do if I write line 10001 and set it to keep the logfile at 10000 lines? |
| 17:26.43 | greycat | multilog (from daemontools) or svlogd (from runit) are explicitly designed to maintain logs in that way |
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| 17:26.49 | SerajewelKS | choice: then on the next rotation the file would be deleted and recreated |
| 17:27.18 | choice | SerajewelKS: Hm... I could easily put that in my application. Delete the file after 10000 lines have been written. |
| 17:27.24 | greycat | Your mistaken is in using the singular, "logfile". |
| 17:27.28 | SerajewelKS | choice: you could but you shouldn't |
| 17:27.36 | choice | But it would be nicer if it is not truncated but kept at a certain length. |
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| 17:27.38 | choice | SerajewelKS: Why not? |
| 17:27.43 | SerajewelKS | log file retention policy should be decided by the sysadmin and not your application |
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| 17:27.58 | choice | That is not an issue in this case. |
| 17:28.03 | SerajewelKS | it should also not require a service restart to implement changes |
| 17:28.14 | choice | I am writing the application right now. |
| 17:28.18 | SerajewelKS | choice: "But it would be nicer if it is not truncated but kept at a certain length." <-- this is not a simple task |
| 17:28.31 | choice | Yeah |
| 17:28.39 | SerajewelKS | removing content from the beginning of a file is not something any filesystem i know of supports |
| 17:28.42 | choice | I will just delete it every 10k lines then. |
| 17:28.45 | SerajewelKS | so you have to "copy up" everything else |
| 17:28.46 | jelly | vadmeste: sorry, I did not have that one installed. That was actually chromium:amd64 (= 69.0.3497.92-1~deb9u1). But the latest 32bit one fails that test as well. |
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| 17:29.00 | greycat | The way svlogd and multilog work is by logging stdin (which comes from the service) to a *series* of log files. When one file reaches a certain length, another is opened. |
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| 17:29.30 | SerajewelKS | choice: using logrotate with a line/size limit and one extra logfile should work fine |
| 17:29.55 | SerajewelKS | then if you always have at least a 10k or 1MB or whatever size window you want in the past |
| 17:30.35 | choice | I will just delete the log every 10k lines. That keeps the complexity of everything low. |
| 17:30.50 | SerajewelKS | i mean, so does farming the complexity out to logrotate, but you do you |
| 17:31.10 | jelly | choice: holding "last 10k lines" is actually not a simple task, you either need a circular buffer, which means a complex format in case lines vary in size, or rewrite whole file all the time |
| 17:31.34 | choice | jelly: Yeah. That's why I will simply delete the log every 10k lines. |
| 17:31.47 | greycat | but then there will be periods of time where you have zero lines saved |
| 17:31.58 | choice | greycat: True |
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| 17:32.11 | choice | One has to make compromises in the name of elegance. |
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| 17:32.20 | SerajewelKS | facepalms |
| 17:33.09 | vadmeste | jelly: it works fine with FF but not with Chromium, it looks like VP9 support was accidentaly removed in recent versions |
| 17:33.13 | SerajewelKS | putting rotation in your service even though there's a system daemon to manage rotation is not "elegant", it's redundant |
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| 17:35.30 | glaucom | the pirate bay is offline ? |
| 17:35.51 | greycat | rather off topic here |
| 17:36.28 | SerajewelKS | greycat: you don't get your debian ISOs from TPB? |
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| 17:37.10 | greycat | not so far |
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| 17:39.50 | SerajewelKS | oops, i lost my /s |
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| 18:08.22 | SerajewelKS | man sed |
| 18:08.24 | SerajewelKS | oops |
| 18:10.14 | jelly | I wouldn't call logrotate a daemon |
| 18:11.11 | Ether_Man | I'm a total newb when it comes to openldap but according to https://documentation.kopano.io/kopanocore_administrator_manual/configure_kc_components.html#configure-kopano-for-user-management-with-ldap-e-g-openldap-ads I should be able to simply add https://paste.debian.net/1051431/ to my openldap install for Stretch, but I'm getting "ldap_add: Invalid syntax (21) additional info: attributeTypes: value #0 invalid per syntax"... |
| 18:11.11 | Ether_Man | Have I forgotten to do something with openldap setup or what? |
| 18:11.12 | jelly | vadmeste: kindof weird since the thing still links against libvpx4 |
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| 18:11.18 | BCMM | traditionally a cron job, right? |
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| 18:21.19 | jhutchins | Trying to get a brother printer (HL2040) working on a stretch PC; I get errors that the filter is i386. I have an older computer, also recently upgraded to stretch, but upgraded from three or four releases ago. It does not have multiarch enabled, but it runs the filters just fine. Obviously some lingering configuration from an earlier release. |
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| 18:21.26 | tarcript | hello |
| 18:21.29 | tarcript | one question |
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| 18:21.35 | tarcript | my debian when a suspend the system |
| 18:21.48 | jhutchins | The multiarch instructions are all about how to _install_ cross-architecture packages, nothing about how to run them. |
| 18:21.51 | tarcript | I can re use ... I see black screen |
| 18:21.55 | tarcript | and not re-suspend |
| 18:22.10 | tarcript | system get blocked or freezy |
| 18:22.18 | tarcript | sorry, my english is bad |
| 18:22.29 | jelly | jhutchins: where precisely do you see those errors? |
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| 18:23.03 | jhutchins | When I try to run a print job; they're from cups. |
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| 18:23.14 | jelly | does the job fail? |
| 18:23.19 | jhutchins | Yes. |
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| 18:23.30 | jhutchins | At least I'm getting errors, on jessie it just failed to print. |
| 18:23.35 | jelly | can you show the relevant output |
| 18:23.47 | tarcript | someone can help me? |
| 18:23.54 | tarcript | I use debian 9 sid |
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| 18:24.05 | jhutchins | I will post it a bit later, I'm at another computer now. |
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| 18:24.54 | jelly | tarcript: sid and debian 9 are two different things |
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| 18:25.04 | sharp15 | did 9.6 come out in the last couple of days? |
| 18:25.14 | jelly | sharp15: this weekend, yes |
| 18:25.25 | jelly | or is that "last weekend" |
| 18:26.13 | sharp15 | ok. i just did a 9.5 install like 3 days ago and was confused by the topic. |
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| 18:26.53 | sharp15 | though now i'm really confused. the blue header at the top of irssi says 9.6 but the topic repeat in the channel says 9.5. |
| 18:27.08 | SerajewelKS | my understanding is that the minor releases are just updates of the ISOs with the latest security updates |
| 18:27.12 | jelly | sharp15: you can just patch that up to 9.6 if you haven't already |
| 18:27.27 | greycat | It's just Debian 9 plus a bunch of updates. |
| 18:27.38 | SerajewelKS | e.g. once you have it installed you can just use "apt update && apt upgrade" and you'll get the latest updates, possibly even some not included in the 9.6 images |
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| 18:27.47 | sharp15 | jelly: i just realized it was there. i'll update it later. |
| 18:27.47 | jelly | SerajewelKS: also, some of the proposed-updates and most of the security update debs go back to the main mirror |
| 18:28.17 | sharp15 | 9.5 to 9.6 works? 8.x to 9.x didn't work so well. |
| 18:28.31 | jelly | sharp15: it's the same release, it's just patches |
| 18:28.37 | sharp15 | ok. |
| 18:28.57 | jelly | for 8.x to 9.x one needs to actually read the docs and follow the procedures |
| 18:29.20 | sharp15 | jelly: i thought i did. it works its just really slow. |
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| 18:29.25 | jelly | for 9.x to 9.x+1 one needs to apt update and apt full-upgrade |
| 18:29.30 | SerajewelKS | and ideally you should back up before a major release |
| 18:29.54 | jelly | ideally you should back up all the time |
| 18:30.00 | SerajewelKS | well... yes, that too |
| 18:30.06 | sharp15 | that machine was getting old and i bought a replacement. i'll reinstall after i'm done putting debian on the new machine. |
| 18:30.14 | jelly | or, say, once a day |
| 18:30.28 | jelly | sharp15: there's no need to reinstall |
| 18:30.32 | sharp15 | better yet. something like git only better. |
| 18:30.40 | jelly | it's literally just a couple patches. |
| 18:30.52 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: "something like git" -- what are you talking about here? |
| 18:31.21 | sharp15 | jelly: no. i meant the machine that is still misbehaving. (there are 3x machines in the conversation now.) |
| 18:31.35 | jelly | ahh |
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| 18:31.42 | sharp15 | SerajewelKS: nothing specific. more change tracking in general. |
| 18:31.49 | jelly | not too sharp |
| 18:32.03 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: okay... i just can't even figure out what you're responding to there, or what you even mean |
| 18:32.05 | mason | Sharp jelly sounds like something to avoid. |
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| 18:34.06 | sharp15 | SerajewelKS: the backup comment. historically in conversation 2 classes of backup strategy exist monolithic snapshots and recording just the changes. |
| 18:34.44 | sharp15 | SerajewelKS: it doesn't matter as the one i was joking about isn't anywhere to be installed/used. |
| 18:35.07 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: ah. well, if you are looking for suggestions... you basically described restic. |
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| 18:35.46 | SerajewelKS | it uses git's content-addressable filesystem approach to create incremental-like backups that can be rsynced around with ease, including after deleting old snapshots. |
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| 18:36.07 | SerajewelKS | creating a backup only stores new/changed stuff. deleting a backup only deletes what's no longer used. |
| 18:36.52 | SerajewelKS | (note the version in debian is way old, though) |
| 18:37.02 | jelly | SerajewelKS: does it deal with partially changed files well? |
| 18:37.20 | SerajewelKS | yes and no, in my experience |
| 18:37.35 | jelly | soo, just like rsync :-) |
| 18:37.41 | SerajewelKS | files are chunked. if a chunk was modified, only that chunk is considered changed. |
| 18:38.07 | SerajewelKS | if you insert/delete bytes in the middle then _sometimes_ it can figure out what happened, and other times it just stores the whole file again. |
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| 18:38.58 | jelly | most of the file changes I'd care about are more appendages than middlings |
| 18:39.05 | SerajewelKS | but after some months, in my experience, everything kind of averages out, and usually beats compression. we have 3TB worth of server snapshots but the repository size is only ~100GB. |
| 18:39.15 | SerajewelKS | jelly: then yeah, it handles those very well |
| 18:39.30 | jelly | SerajewelKS: how many versions is that |
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| 18:39.36 | SerajewelKS | let me check |
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| 18:39.46 | jelly | and how many files on the source |
| 18:39.56 | SerajewelKS | well there's multiple sources |
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| 18:40.25 | SerajewelKS | if you back up multiple systems to the same repo, restic deduplicates across all snapshots of all systems |
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| 18:40.43 | SerajewelKS | which is great for us because the application we run is very big, so the backups of our three production servers entirely deduplicates the application itself |
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| 18:41.15 | jelly | that sounds nice for apps that replicate themselves |
| 18:42.01 | SerajewelKS | we were using tarballs for the DB dumps and the systems, and we couldn't back up everything due to space constraints. we had one day (yesterday) of the application for all servers, and seven days of database dumps. |
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| 18:44.11 | jelly | I wonder how well it'd do on daily 300GB MSSQL dumps |
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| 18:45.19 | jelly | ,v restic |
| 18:45.20 | judd | Package: restic on amd64 -- stretch: 0.3.3-1+b2; buster: 0.9.3+ds-1; sid: 0.9.3+ds-1 |
| 18:45.52 | SerajewelKS | jelly: current stats are: 210 snapshots (all systems, not per system), 8 daily system backups, 4 daily database backups (so 12 snapshots per day), repo is 114GB of used disk space, logical size of all snapshots before deduplication is ... (waiting on restic stats to complete) |
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| 18:46.03 | SerajewelKS | don't use the stretch version, it's way too old |
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| 18:46.16 | jelly | ,checkbackport restic |
| 18:46.28 | judd | Backporting package restic in sidâstretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: golang-github-cenkalti-backoff-dev (>= 2.0.0), golang-github-kurin-blazer-dev, golang-github-pkg-xattr-dev, golang-github-restic-chunker-dev (>= 0.2.0), golang-github-spf13-cobra-dev (>= 0.0.1). |
| 18:46.29 | SerajewelKS | jelly: another advantage is that backups are encrypted and the data is organized into "packs" of roughly the same size each |
| 18:46.32 | jelly | ouch |
| 18:46.56 | SerajewelKS | this means you can rclone it to e.g. S3 or B2 and the cloud provider doesn't really have any visibility into your backups other than "total repo size and number of snapshots" |
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| 18:47.05 | jelly | but it's go, so build deps and runtime deps are very different things |
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| 18:47.17 | SerajewelKS | jelly: the binary on github is statically linked, i just wget it from the github releases and chmod +x |
| 18:47.30 | SerajewelKS | throw it in /usr/local/bin |
| 18:47.48 | SerajewelKS | which is nice in particular since not all of our servers are debian, either |
| 18:47.56 | jelly | are they gpg signed by someone |
| 18:48.25 | SerajewelKS | there's a signed SHA256SUMS |
| 18:48.45 | SerajewelKS | the build is also supposed to be deterministic but IIRC something broke that for 0.9.3. next build should be back to deterministic. |
| 18:48.46 | jelly | fairy nuff, debian isos aren't better |
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| 18:50.00 | qiffan | greatings |
| 18:50.17 | SerajewelKS | restic has its disadvantages but the advantages are everything i've been looking for to perform backups of my personal owncloud server. it worked so well for me that i suggested we use it at work (i'm the dev/sysadmin lead, i suggested it to the COO) and we ran with it. |
| 18:50.33 | qiffan | my dongle Wi-Fi 131 D-link doesnt look to work default, any solution' |
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| 18:50.44 | qiffan | thank you in advanced |
| 18:51.01 | SerajewelKS | and we're able to retain over a hundred full system backups in less space than it was taking us to store 3 _partial_ system backups and 21 full database backups |
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| 18:51.31 | jelly | qiffan: what is its usb id? Run "lsusb", paste the line for that device only |
| 18:51.41 | SerajewelKS | plus have those rcloned to S3 for offsite recovery, which my (small) company has never had the time to figure out how to do right |
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| 18:51.59 | jelly | qiffan: probably needs firmware |
| 18:52.15 | qiffan | i ve allready installed firmware-realtek |
| 18:52.21 | qiffan | still doesnt work |
| 18:52.42 | jelly | qiffan: did you reboot after installing that package? |
| 18:52.59 | SerajewelKS | jelly: regarding your question about MSSQL backups, that i don't really know. we do full DB backups and i pipe them through 'gzip --rsyncable' before piping it to 'restic backup --stdin' |
| 18:53.07 | qiffan | no |
| 18:53.09 | SerajewelKS | jelly: it's able to deduplicate a fair number of gzipped blocks |
| 18:53.14 | qiffan | i ll dtry it |
| 18:53.22 | jelly | qiffan: right |
| 18:53.23 | qiffan | ty jelly |
| 18:53.28 | qiffan | xD |
| 18:53.52 | jelly | I don't care about compression as tape drives are able to do that rather well |
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| 18:54.54 | SerajewelKS | jelly: i just checked and of the last two 768MB backups of the same database, it deemed 394MB to have changed |
| 18:55.16 | jelly | that's still 50% saved |
| 18:55.18 | SerajewelKS | jelly: before i compressed them, it deduplicated _nothing_ |
| 18:55.25 | jelly | blinks |
| 18:55.57 | SerajewelKS | my theory on that is that gzip is able to get some new db records into the same compressed block. and then all of the following unchanged file content compresses the same (with --rsyncable). |
| 18:56.19 | jelly | wonderif pigz have --rsyncable |
| 18:56.35 | SerajewelKS | if you insert a single record at the beginning of the dump then it shifts everything down and restic can't dedupe the blocks. but sometimes gzip --rsyncable is able to get the new data to fit into a same-sized compressed block. |
| 18:56.42 | jelly | they do. |
| 18:56.42 | SerajewelKS | at least that's the only explanation i have that makes any sense |
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| 18:57.37 | SerajewelKS | huge single-file dumps are really where restic shines though. it's great at backing up / and only recording what changed. |
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| 18:59.55 | SerajewelKS | the primary advantage for me is that files in the repo are immutable -- they are created and deleted but never changed. and a backup will never change, only add. this makes it very easy to rsync/rclone offsite only the new data. |
| 18:59.58 | jelly | my dumps are so huge, you wouldn't believe |
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| 19:00.08 | SerajewelKS | might want to see a doctor |
| 19:00.10 | jelly | but back to the backups |
| 19:00.13 | mason | Context is critical. |
| 19:00.20 | SerajewelKS | hah #sharedbrain |
| 19:00.41 | SerajewelKS | you might find that for DB backups, restic doesn't work very well |
| 19:02.44 | SerajewelKS | at least for total dumps. if you are using replication logs, then restic will work quite well. though there wouldn't really be much of an advantage over just rsyncing the replication logs themselves. |
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| 19:04.06 | glaucom | hi all I still can not make nvidia work correctly :( |
| 19:04.19 | glaucom | root@desktop-bb0q7t0:/home/blackcat# optirun --status |
| 19:04.19 | glaucom | Bumblebee status: Ready (3.2.1). X inactive. Discrete video card is off. |
| 19:04.30 | glaucom | any helpme ? |
| 19:04.34 | jelly | I have a couple splunk nodes that mostly have duplicate data among themselves, yet the app docs are horribly sketchy about what actually needs backing up and what doesn't |
| 19:05.19 | SerajewelKS | jelly: with restic in particular i've taken the approach of "back up all the things unless i 100% know they aren't needed" |
| 19:05.31 | greycat | glaucom: well, uh, exit from your root shell first. |
| 19:05.38 | jelly | yeah, we do that by default as well |
| 19:06.08 | SerajewelKS | and sometimes even if i know they aren't needed. e.g. i don't exclude .git because i have some 150+ dev repos cloned and i'd rather spend the few cents a month on S3 to back them up then have to figure out what i had, figure out what the remote is, clone them all... |
| 19:06.17 | SerajewelKS | some have multiple remotes and i'd have to figure out that config again... |
| 19:06.42 | glaucom | greycat: k. |
| 19:06.55 | jelly | rule of thumb: if someone's going to spend more than two hours setting it all back up, it needs a backup |
| 19:07.07 | glaucom | blackcat@desktop-bb0q7t0:~$ optirun -b none nvidia-settings -c :8 |
| 19:07.07 | glaucom | [ 1036.247256] [ERROR]You've no permission to communicate with the Bumblebee daemon. Try adding yourself to the 'bumblebee' group |
| 19:07.07 | glaucom | [ 1036.247341] [ERROR]Could not connect to bumblebee daemon - is it running? |
| 19:07.17 | SerajewelKS | jelly: even moreso these days considering how cheap cloud storage is |
| 19:07.19 | jelly | that includes my kde desktop config and firefox tabs |
| 19:09.06 | SerajewelKS | my personal server backups, basically all that changes each day are some logs and my maildir |
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| 19:10.35 | SerajewelKS | setting up restic has made me realize how much i WASN'T backing up. i now have it running at least daily on almost all of my systems. even the windows ones. even my workstation at work. |
| 19:11.26 | jelly | SerajewelKS: how much does it take to restore your firefox or chrom{e,ium} profile? |
| 19:11.29 | SerajewelKS | the linux ones, i should be able to actually do a full system restore onto an empty disk, chroot, install grub, and boot into the system |
| 19:11.43 | SerajewelKS | jelly: let me check my work computer snapshots |
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| 19:12.13 | SerajewelKS | i don't know if i can get that level of detail (how much was added due to changes in a specific path) |
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| 19:14.07 | jelly | the current backup system takes hours to restore .config/google-chrome, mostly because it only does incremental backups and storage backend is 100 tapes, so 30 days of a backup image is stored on 30 different tapes. Sometimes upwards of 12 hours. |
| 19:14.43 | jelly | it's a backup system but perhaps not a very good restore system |
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| 19:19.28 | sharp15 | is the debian installer able to use the existing efi partition or do i need to create a second one? |
| 19:19.43 | greycat | it uses the existing one |
| 19:19.56 | sharp15 | even in dual boot? just checking. |
| 19:20.05 | jelly | even in triple boot |
| 19:20.11 | sharp15 | hehe. |
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| 19:22.27 | jelly | efi makes it so that all the boot loaders for all the OSes go there as executables, it's nicer than old bios mbr boot in that regard |
| 19:23.10 | SerajewelKS | jelly: yeah one of the things i love about restic is that it doesn't follow the incremental model, but still carries a lot of the advantages. there is no level 0 backup. |
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| 19:23.28 | SerajewelKS | you can delete the oldest snapshot and that only discards data that was only in use by that snapshot |
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| 19:24.41 | SerajewelKS | "restic forget" even has a ridiculous number of options you can use to tailor your retention policy. e.g. "keep at least one backup per day for the last 60 days, then at least one backup per week for the last 52 weeks, per system+tag combination" |
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| 19:25.38 | SerajewelKS | jelly: the last backup of my work system done after a day in the office added 343MB to the repo, but i know i did a bunch of package upgrades, so that's not terribly representative of a typical day |
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| 19:28.16 | SerajewelKS | the other thing to keep in mind is that the size of the chromium directory doesn't change much. so if you only retain a week's worth of daily backups, for example, then the space used by the upcoming backup is offset by the space reclaimed by the week-old backup that will be forgotten. |
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| 19:29.55 | DammitJim | do you guys know of a good solution for remote logging? |
| 19:30.03 | SerajewelKS | i don't have any automated forget process in place yet because all of my repos are so small, relatively speaking, that there's no reason not to let them grow for a bit and see how much they can hold before i need to start discarding |
| 19:30.09 | DammitJim | I have routers that I would like to have send log information to a log server |
| 19:30.28 | DammitJim | then on the log server, I can analyze the URLs that have been visited by the people using the routers :) |
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| 19:30.44 | SerajewelKS | DammitJim: logstash is a pretty flexible solution, though a bit heavy |
| 19:31.10 | DammitJim | heavy in what respect? |
| 19:31.21 | SerajewelKS | IIRC it only deals with obtaining and storing the log lines. you need another solution to effectively search, such as elasticsearch. |
| 19:31.31 | jelly | DammitJim: pick a syslog server that you like and configure it? How much logs? |
| 19:31.46 | DammitJim | I was looking at octopussy |
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| 19:32.13 | jelly | ELK stack (elasticsearch, logstash, kibana) is roughly equivalent to commercial Splunk |
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| 19:32.18 | SerajewelKS | DammitJim: it's one of those "can do anything" swiss army knives so it comes with a ton of crap you probably won't need. it has a fair number of dependencies and uses quite a bit of RAM. but it can ingest logs from damn near any type of system. |
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| 19:32.38 | DammitJim | logstash, huh? |
| 19:32.48 | DammitJim | I've heard of kibana and elasticsearch as well |
| 19:32.57 | DammitJim | bottom line is I'll need to learn one of them |
| 19:33.09 | SerajewelKS | logstash only handles ingest and storage, so you need elasticsearch to actually look at your data in any meaningful way |
| 19:33.23 | SerajewelKS | DammitJim: if you want to set up logstash you probably need to learn all of them, they all work together to solve different parts of the problem |
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| 19:33.43 | DammitJim | ah, I see |
| 19:33.48 | jelly | maybe you only need syslog-ng and grep, we don't know your daily lines and desired retention |
| 19:33.57 | DammitJim | so, I would need part 1 which is to ingest and part 2 something to analyze |
| 19:33.59 | SerajewelKS | logstash handles the ingest and storage, IIRC elasticsearch handles indexing and search backend, and kibana is a frontend to allow you to project the data in meaningful ways |
| 19:34.26 | DammitJim | I think I've heard of logstash + kibana more than anything else |
| 19:34.45 | SerajewelKS | if you're going to need to analyze logs from dozens or more sources then it's probably not a bad idea to look into it |
| 19:34.53 | SerajewelKS | but like jelly said, a simpler solution might also work, but we don't know enough to say |
| 19:34.57 | jelly | DammitJim: do you have MB or GB or TB of new logs per day? |
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| 19:35.21 | DammitJim | I don't know at this point. I'm just trying to help a friend who wants to implement something like this: |
| 19:35.26 | jelly | DammitJim: do you need to keep 7 days or a month or a year? |
| 19:35.37 | DammitJim | he has 77 routers out there that he wants to have ship logs to a central server |
| 19:35.45 | DammitJim | so, I don't know the volume |
| 19:35.56 | SerajewelKS | that's probably on the level where logstash + kibana would easily pay off |
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| 19:36.03 | DammitJim | what he wants to do is search through the logs and identify inappropriate visited URLs |
| 19:36.08 | DammitJim | I have no idea how he is going to do that piece |
| 19:36.43 | DammitJim | he'll have to somehow map what router is where to then manage it remotely and blacklist such URLs |
| 19:36.58 | SerajewelKS | if he's not against paying for a managed service, AWS CloudWatch Logs might be sufficient for his needs, if he can get the cloudwatch logs agent on the routers |
| 19:37.11 | SerajewelKS | they charge per GB ingested and GB-month stored |
| 19:37.22 | SerajewelKS | it might cost less than building a logstash server |
| 19:37.22 | DammitJim | he looked into it and that's not possible unfortunately, but a great idea! |
| 19:37.27 | SerajewelKS | aw, sucks |
| 19:37.44 | jelly | azure has similar services |
| 19:38.11 | SerajewelKS | we use AWS to ingest GBs of nginx logs daily |
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| 19:38.41 | SerajewelKS | and then a lambda to sort out which client is responsible for what log entry, for billing traffic consumption |
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| 19:39.22 | sharp15 | is 20GB enough for / if i'm using a separate partition for /home? |
| 19:39.29 | jelly | sharp15: yes |
| 19:39.37 | greycat | Depends on what you do with your system, but usually yes. |
| 19:40.11 | sharp15 | the root is just there to support whatever is going on in the home directory. its not a server. |
| 19:40.29 | SerajewelKS | as in, it depends what you're going to install |
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| 19:40.50 | DammitJim | sharp15, I know you don't want to hear this, but that all depends. I know, it sucks 'cause you just want an answer |
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| 19:40.58 | SerajewelKS | e.g. if you install libreoffice and all of gnome and a bazillion other things then 20 might not be enough. but if you don't install very much than 5 might even be _too_ much. |
| 19:41.09 | SerajewelKS | then* |
| 19:41.13 | DammitJim | What I've done since then, I've started to use LVM to move available space around |
| 19:42.01 | SerajewelKS | i just have a single /. haven't needed separate volumes for a long time, except in the case of (1) external volumes, and (2) different redundancy requirements (raid1 vs no redundancy, for example). |
| 19:42.04 | DammitJim | when I got the laptop I'm currently writing you from, I allocated 10GB and I'm starting to run out of space on the root partition 'cause I don't have a var or usr partition |
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| 19:42.35 | SerajewelKS | though i do have a separate /boot since grub is flaky booting from / in LVM in dmraid |
| 19:42.48 | jelly | DammitJim: how many old kernels do you keep? |
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| 19:43.22 | jelly | I have 1GB just in /lib/modules here |
| 19:43.36 | SerajewelKS | personally i keep the current + last working |
| 19:43.47 | SerajewelKS | which is the default policy if you apt autoremove |
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| 19:44.07 | DammitJim | jelly, where do I look for that? |
| 19:44.24 | SerajewelKS | dpkg -l linux-kernel-\* |
| 19:44.25 | dpkg | ii linux-kernel-\* 3.6-1.3 serajewelks's private porn collection |
| 19:44.31 | SerajewelKS | nice |
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| 19:45.24 | jelly | SerajewelKS: debian sometimes keeps the same kernel ABI and destroys the "last working" kernel on package upgrades |
| 19:45.30 | greycat | 376M /lib/modules here, with just two kernels installed |
| 19:45.35 | ghoti | is quagga a good choice these days as a route reflector? I'm looking to set up something that'll talk to my primary upstream and peers at my IX, and provide those routes to two FreeBSD-based routers. Not sure of the terminology I should be looking for in my search for documentation and examples. |
| 19:45.50 | sharp15 | ext4 for an SSD or is there something special? |
| 19:45.54 | SerajewelKS | jelly: ah, hmm. well, in any case, kernel breakages are so rare that i don't really worry to much. if necessary i can boot from the installer and manually reinstall an older kernel. |
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| 19:46.06 | SerajewelKS | too* much, good grief what's with my english today |
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| 19:46.50 | jelly | sharp15: ext4 is fine |
| 19:47.37 | jelly | ghoti: ask in ##networking in case noone has a comment here |
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| 19:47.52 | ghoti | jelly: thanks, good suggestion. :) |
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| 19:52.25 | DammitJim | jelly, where do I see what kernels I have kept? |
| 19:52.45 | SerajewelKS | DammitJim: what i said above: dpkg -l linux-kernel-\* |
| 19:52.52 | SerajewelKS | any line starting with "i" is installed |
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| 19:53.49 | SerajewelKS | "apt autoremove" should remove all except your current and prior kernels, as well as any other packages that were auto-installed but nothing installed depends on them |
| 19:53.50 | greycat | technically, any line with i in the second column |
| 19:53.58 | greycat | "hi" is also installed |
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| 19:54.06 | SerajewelKS | right |
| 19:54.07 | DammitJim | sorry, I missed that |
| 19:54.35 | DammitJim | weird... mine must be broken |
| 19:55.03 | SerajewelKS | broken? |
| 19:55.06 | DammitJim | https://paste.debian.net/1051441/ |
| 19:55.17 | DammitJim | oh, I've done apt autoremove before |
| 19:55.36 | SerajewelKS | my bad, it's linux-image |
| 19:56.08 | SerajewelKS | the kernel package prefix has changed since i've started using debian so i can never remember what it is today |
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| 19:56.32 | jelly | used to be kernel-image-. Still, noone else noticed. |
| 19:56.54 | SerajewelKS | that's right. then my brain blends the old and new name together. |
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| 19:57.47 | jelly | /usr/src/debs/kernel-image-2.4.20-rc1_jelly.0_i386.deb |
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| 19:58.25 | jelly | oh that isn't even the oldest one |
| 19:59.08 | jelly | -rw-r--r-- 1 root src 1214178 Jun 27 2001 /usr/src/debs/kernel-image-2.4.5-ac18_burek.0_i386.deb # back when a certain ac managed _the_ useful tree |
| 19:59.36 | DammitJim | https://paste.debian.net/1051442/ |
| 19:59.38 | DammitJim | how bad am I looking? |
| 19:59.39 | greycat | !alan cox |
| 19:59.39 | dpkg | it has been said that alan cox is just about 3/4 deity or is found in http://www.uk.linux.org/diary/, or someone who works on FreeBSD with the same name, but really isn't the Alan Cox you know of Linux fame., or http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/1999/40/ns-10500.html Interview by LWN: http://lwn.net/1999/features/ACInterview/, or a guy who drinks alot of beer. |
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| 20:00.09 | greycat | I think there's a picture of an alot of beer... |
| 20:00.10 | SerajewelKS | i started using linux in early... 2001? so 2.0 is the first i remember. but i didn't switch to debian until after 2002 because woody was my first debian release. |
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| 20:00.31 | jelly | kudos to lwn for keeping that URL working |
| 20:00.45 | SerajewelKS | DammitJim: you only have 3 kernels installed. apt autoremove should remove the oldest of those. |
| 20:00.46 | greycat | the ALOT OF BEER CANS is at http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html |
| 20:01.20 | greycat | Since it's a historic factoid, I think I'll leave the grammar unfixed. |
| 20:02.17 | jelly | !factinfo alan cox |
| 20:02.17 | dpkg | alan cox -- last modified at Sat Jul 8 21:10:37 2000 by bugg!glycoluril@c705742-a.htfdw1.ct.home.com; it has been requested 28 times, last by greycat, 2m 38s ago. |
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| 20:02.58 | jelly | that factoid can in fact vote and drink alcoholic beverages legally around here |
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| 20:03.57 | jelly | DammitJim: and presumably you know about, and run "apt autoclean" or even "apt clean" regularly |
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| 20:11.39 | annadane | why can i not create .config/openbox/autostart by nano .config/openbox/autostart and filling it up with stuff? Error writing .config/openbox/autostart: No such file or directory |
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| 20:12.14 | greycat | you have to mkdir ~/.xonfig/openbox first |
| 20:12.20 | greycat | err, minus the typo |
| 20:12.29 | mason | and then ln -s .xonfig .config |
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| 20:12.49 | mason | hides. |
| 20:12.54 | greycat | more like mv .xonfig/* .config/ |
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| 20:14.50 | n4dir | you might also cp -r /etc/xdg/openbox ~/.config |
| 20:15.04 | n4dir | then you got the other files in place, to fiddle with (if you want) |
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| 20:16.32 | annadane | wouldn't i cp /etc/xdg/openbox to .config/openbox and not just .config? |
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| 20:17.06 | greycat | depends on whether that cp -r commands creates openbox or not |
| 20:17.06 | mason | annadane: you want to have .config/openbox/rc.xml anyway |
| 20:17.08 | jelly | annadane: you'd eitther copy the directory to .config or copy its contents to .config/openbox |
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| 20:17.33 | jelly | annadane: cp /etc/xdg/openbox to .config/openbox is probably neither of those options |
| 20:17.44 | greycat | I barely remember how to arrange the arguments (to slash or not to slash) for rsync, let alone things I never use like cp -r |
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| 20:18.20 | jelly | rsync has some logic and consistency there |
| 20:18.24 | jelly | unlike ln |
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| 20:18.42 | annadane | okay, it just puts it into the previously created .config/openbox |
| 20:18.44 | SerajewelKS | jelly: restic stats finally finished. we have 4.015 TB of logical snapshots in that 114 GB restic repository. that's a 35:1 dedupe ratio. |
| 20:19.03 | n4dir | greycat: cp -r copies the directory openbox in .config, which already should exist. Well: i think. |
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| 20:19.21 | jelly | SerajewelKS: how many files and versions tho :-) |
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| 20:22.41 | SerajewelKS | jelly: 120 snapshots (total, not per system), about a month's worth; we started using restic a month ago. the most recent backup of a typical system reports 445,166 filesystem nodes (includes directories). |
| 20:22.48 | ryouma | restic sounds like obnam. can it be restored without it being installed? |
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| 20:22.50 | SerajewelKS | eyeballing the restic repo, it grows by a few GB per day |
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| 20:23.21 | sofia07 | hello - can anyone help me get into this repo = I want to see what options are tehre |
| 20:23.21 | SerajewelKS | ryouma: no, but restic doesn't have to be installed on the system where the repository is stored. it can access a remote repository over HTTP, SSH, other object stores like S3 and B2. |
| 20:23.28 | sofia07 | http://download.onlyoffice.com/repo/debian |
| 20:23.36 | SerajewelKS | ryouma: and due to a cooperating protocol, any backend that rclone can talk to |
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| 20:24.05 | greycat | sofia07: ask whoever set it up for the documentation |
| 20:24.43 | SerajewelKS | ryouma: the restic client is a single statically-linked go binary, so you don't have to worry about dependencies, either |
| 20:24.54 | ryouma | i will stick with rsnapshot, which only does hardlinking and not deduplication, but can be restored without any unusual tools |
| 20:24.58 | jelly | SerajewelKS: so about 30 versions of 400k files on approximately 4 machines |
| 20:25.16 | ryouma | who knows if restic or go will exist in 15y |
| 20:25.19 | SerajewelKS | jelly: 8 machines. 4 application servers and 4 database servers. |
| 20:25.55 | ryouma | i think obnam might be restorable without special tools with some effort but not sure |
| 20:26.02 | SerajewelKS | ryouma: sure, whatever works for you. the advantage to restic for me is that backups can be rsync'd to storage backends that may not understand hardlinks, and all content is encrypted. |
| 20:26.10 | jelly | wants his backup software be able to deal with 30 versions of 100M files |
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| 20:27.10 | ryouma | if they don't move around rsnapshot is good there but if they do you need dedup |
| 20:27.10 | SerajewelKS | jelly: restic uses a very similar structure as git. a snapshot object references a tree object. trees contain a listing of their contents, and a reference to another tree for a subdirectory or a chain of blob objects for files. |
| 20:27.22 | jelly | ryouma: rsnapshot or some other rsync wrapper is fine until you realize how much space things occupy |
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| 20:27.25 | SerajewelKS | jelly: so a change in a file only affects that file's blob chain, and the tree objects up to the root |
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| 20:27.38 | jelly | SerajewelKS: I hope it has a working fsck |
| 20:27.47 | SerajewelKS | jelly: it has "restic check" yes |
| 20:28.53 | SerajewelKS | i've seen forum posts where it's been used to recover from a broken state successfully. e.g. if rsync somehow manages to catch a new snapshot but not all of its data (syncing while a backup is running) then you have a snapshot that has missing blobs. check will detect this. then restic find can be used to locate the bad snapshot. |
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| 20:29.19 | SerajewelKS | then you can forget the snapshot and prune the extra data. or, simply, rsync again to get the missing data. |
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| 20:30.17 | jelly | so one needs to take a cold snapshot of the backend to make a consistent backup (of this backup system). This isn't unusual. |
| 20:31.01 | SerajewelKS | jelly: not necessarily. another working approach is to sync the snapshots directory first, then sync everything else. if there is a running backup, the worst case scenario is that you have extra data that isn't referenced. |
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| 20:31.49 | SerajewelKS | and it's only a problem if the backup finishes while rsync is scanning the source, AND it scans the snapshots directory after the data directory. |
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| 20:33.00 | SerajewelKS | in practice it winds up not being a problem, mostly because the next sync will bring in the missing data. if you have to recover, then the situation is pretty much the same between "got the snapshot but not the data" and "got the data but not the snapshot" -- either way the in-progress backup isn't 100% there. the only difference is that if you get the snapshot without the data, you have a bit of |
| 20:33.06 | SerajewelKS | manual cleanup to make the repo happy. |
| 20:33.13 | annadane | interesting that i put redshift in .confg/openbox/autostart and then it also appears as an entry in .config/autostart |
| 20:33.20 | annadane | i presume it's not starting twice |
| 20:33.29 | SerajewelKS | which boils down to finding the bad snapshot and removing it |
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| 20:34.15 | annadane | i only have the one icon and the GUI shows the temperature, so it's not conflicting |
| 20:34.53 | SerajewelKS | basically if you sync during a backup, you have to expect that you won't have that backup when the sync finishes. if you can tolerate that, then it doesn't much matter if the repo passes an fsck because the only damage will be the presence of an incomplete backup. |
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| 20:35.54 | sharp15 | is a 9.5 netinst stick unusable now? |
| 20:36.00 | annadane | nope |
| 20:36.02 | greycat | No, don't be silly. |
| 20:36.10 | annadane | you'd just need to upgrade the packages later |
| 20:36.11 | greycat | Any 9.x installer will install stretch. |
| 20:36.12 | SerajewelKS | in our case we have the sync process for offsite backups run a few hours after the last system backup is scheduled |
| 20:36.15 | sharp15 | the install just failed. i was just checking. |
| 20:36.20 | ryouma | iiuc any 9 iso is good. just update and upgrade. |
| 20:36.24 | annadane | okay, how did it fail? |
| 20:36.46 | sharp15 | the installer didn't give any details. it just said "the package install failed" |
| 20:37.06 | sharp15 | its re-running. if it fails again i'll tell you. |
| 20:38.02 | SerajewelKS | jelly: anyway we might be getting a tad out there for #debian. feel free to PM if you have any other questions about it. i've used it extensively for a month on a variety of systems, and have tinkered with all of the commands so i at least have practice with quite a bit of scenarios. |
| 20:38.24 | annadane | personally i'm always updating my sticks with the latest netinst, that's just personal preference |
| 20:38.51 | sharp15 | i would. but i was in a hurry when i started this. |
| 20:38.59 | SerajewelKS | annadane: unless the installer was patched, that's kind of a waste of time, TBH |
| 20:39.18 | annadane | i know it's a waste of time, i still do it anyway, it's nice to not have to update the kernel later |
| 20:39.50 | SerajewelKS | it's a netinst; isn't the kernel fetched from the repos if there's a newer one? |
| 20:40.30 | annadane | nope |
| 20:40.41 | greycat | I think the kernel is an exception here. |
| 20:40.44 | annadane | if there's a kernel upgrade you need to do it manually after the netinst |
| 20:40.45 | sharp15 | ok. different error this time. "grub-install dummy failed" |
| 20:41.00 | greycat | Go to the logs window (Alt-F4 I think) and see what happened. |
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| 20:41.05 | SerajewelKS | well TIL |
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| 20:41.28 | SerajewelKS | at any rate, using the latest netinstall patch doesn't guarantee that there wasn't a kernel update after the patch |
| 20:42.08 | sharp15 | greycat: it was ctrl-alt-f4. you had me worried there. |
| 20:42.32 | greycat | When you are not in X11, Alt-F4 and Ctrl-Alt-F4 both do the same thing. |
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| 20:42.56 | sharp15 | actually it didn't do that. i'm using the graphical installer. |
| 20:43.02 | greycat | ... ugh. |
| 20:43.18 | greycat | I will have to learn that this is a thing, and that some people actually use it. |
| 20:43.18 | annadane | welcome to the 2000's, greycat. :P |
| 20:43.48 | Zerock | I've installed Debian 9.5 for i386 on an old Dell Inspiron 1012. After successful installation, the system hangs on boot. In quiet mode, I get an ACPI namespace error. If I disable quiet mode, it appears to be hanging while loading screen backlight settings. Any idea what's going on? |
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| 20:44.17 | sharp15 | it says "grub-install: error: attempt to install to encrypted disk without cryptodisk enabled. Set 'GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y" in file '/etc/default/grub'. |
| 20:44.45 | sharp15 | and then again that "dummy failed" line fram before. |
| 20:44.57 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: are you using encryption, i would suggest using a separate /boot partition |
| 20:45.16 | sharp15 | SerajewelKS: is the UEFI partition insufficient? |
| 20:45.16 | SerajewelKS | which should not be encrypted |
| 20:45.29 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: the UEFI partition only contains grub, not the kernel |
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| 20:45.52 | sharp15 | ok. then i will have to repartition and start over. |
| 20:46.26 | SerajewelKS | my systems tend to have: optional UEFI or BIOS boot partition as required, /boot, LVM[/, swap] |
| 20:46.39 | SerajewelKS | if you're doing encryption, then a LUKS layer around the LVM only |
| 20:46.51 | sharp15 | i use a separate /boot with gentoo. but i've never done a UEFI install before. |
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| 20:48.35 | SerajewelKS | i've learned to only trust booting without a separate /boot if both are true: (1) / is in a maximum of one "linear" layer (LVM *or* dmraid RAID1), and (2) that layer is not LUKS |
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| 20:48.56 | SerajewelKS | when i don't follow this rule i get strange boot failures about every other kernel update |
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| 20:49.06 | SerajewelKS | in theory it should be able to boot from /-in- |
| 20:49.11 | SerajewelKS | LVM-in-RAID1 |
| 20:49.26 | SerajewelKS | but that was exactly one such system that gave me huge amounts of trouble randomly after a kernel update |
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| 20:50.31 | sharp15 | is there a way to free a cryptographic volume from the installer? |
| 20:50.51 | SerajewelKS | if you're not using it, just delete the partition |
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| 20:51.14 | sharp15 | i'm trying it keeps complaining that it is in use. |
| 20:51.27 | SerajewelKS | try removing the volume contained in it |
| 20:51.39 | SerajewelKS | setting it to "use as: do not use" *should* be sufficient |
| 20:51.41 | sharp15 | there isn't one. |
| 20:51.49 | sharp15 | it is set to "do not use" |
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| 20:52.15 | SerajewelKS | i've not run into that situation before. i'd have to set up a dummy VM in that scenario and see what my options are. |
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| 20:53.15 | SerajewelKS | you should have an option to create a new disklabel altogether, which would discard the partition table and start over |
| 20:53.24 | sharp15 | its not just me. and its not fixed. |
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| 20:54.04 | sharp15 | SerajewelKS: it won't let me edit the actual partitions. i think its refusing to close the device-mapper entry. |
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| 20:54.33 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: you could take the nuclear option -- switch to a VT, fdisk the disk and delete all partitions, then reboot |
| 20:54.45 | sharp15 | SerajewelKS: its a multiboot system. |
| 20:55.04 | SerajewelKS | then delete the partitions just for the system you're trying to destroy? |
| 20:56.05 | sharp15 | i'm trying. one moment. |
| 20:56.41 | SerajewelKS | you can do some other stuff instead of rebooting, but that's the simplest option |
| 20:57.12 | Scorpion2185 | while installing debian it failed the bootloader |
| 20:57.12 | sharp15 | yeah. |
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| 21:00.25 | sharp15 | is 1GB big enough for a debian /boot? |
| 21:00.49 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: mine is 512MB |
| 21:00.56 | SerajewelKS | so i would say yes |
| 21:01.03 | greycat | mine is holding 62M of data with 2 kernels installed |
| 21:01.05 | SerajewelKS | it only has 65MB used |
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| 21:06.16 | sharp15 | greycat: to answer your comment. i get key bouncing issues on the VT installer. i'll push the button once and end up with 3 copies. |
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| 21:08.49 | Tom01 | My 4790K Intel Cooler is making a loud annoying howling Noise. Is that normal? |
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| 21:10.25 | bites | howling noise... not really. but the intel stock coolers get pretty loud. |
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| 21:10.44 | xiculan | hello |
| 21:10.48 | dvs | oi |
| 21:11.17 | xiculan | anybody can help me with an issue about raspbian? |
| 21:11.32 | dvs | raspbian can |
| 21:11.35 | dvs | !raspbian |
| 21:11.36 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/ |
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| 21:12.08 | zleap | when you install raspbian desktop on a pc, the installer is the normal debian one |
| 21:12.12 | xiculan | ok thanks |
| 21:12.39 | zleap | however there are a few parts of it modified such as no user account creation when you install, account pi is auto created |
| 21:13.28 | zleap | xiculan: i'll try and help in #raspbian |
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| 21:20.37 | DammitJim | jelly, yeah, I've run autoclean, clean, and autoremove |
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| 21:49.59 | sharp15 | so. yay the install finished. my mistake for not understanding i needed a /boot. |
| 21:51.01 | DammitJim | wow... I finally understand that you guys were talking about something called ELK |
| 21:52.54 | dvs | sharp15, why did you need a separate boot? HD is larger than 2TB? |
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| 21:53.57 | SerajewelKS | dvs: he's using encryption |
| 21:54.03 | dvs | ah |
| 21:54.07 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: if you picked guided mode with encryption, i think it would have made a /boot for you |
| 21:54.18 | SerajewelKS | if you're not using guided mode it's understood that you know how to piece a system together :) |
| 21:54.48 | SerajewelKS | which means knowing details like "/boot can't be on an encrypted volume" |
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| 22:01.07 | sharp15 | SerajewelKS: guided mode made a mess of itself over the weekend even when i told it to blank a whole disk. |
| 22:01.31 | SerajewelKS | sharp15: interesting. you seem to be running into many problems that i haven't, for some reason. |
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| 22:02.54 | sharp15 | in college i learned that my computer skills could fix or break a computer and i didn't have to touch anything to do it. /s |
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| 22:03.13 | sharp15 | ok. i have to go. good evening guys. |
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| 22:38.43 | maxrazer | Is it normal for the computer to stop responding if I switch to another tty login and logout? |
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| 22:45.51 | ryouma | why would that be normal? |
| 22:46.05 | ryouma | (not a rhetorical question) |
| 22:48.06 | maxrazer | ryouma, Maybe a flaw that has never been fixed. Does it do this for you? It always does this for me. |
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| 22:48.17 | maxrazer | I use IceWM and DWM. |
| 22:48.38 | maxrazer | Why would it do this? Is there a right way to do this? |
| 22:48.41 | ryouma | maxrazer: i use jessie |
| 22:48.52 | ryouma | i don't recall that ever |
| 22:49.09 | maxrazer | Could it have to do with my nvidia proprietary driver? |
| 22:49.15 | ryouma | is this normal for jessie upgrade today? i did not see it in the lts reports: The following NEW packages will be installed: amd64-microcode (2.20160316.1~deb8u1) firmware-amd-graphics (20161130-4~deb8u1) firmware-misc-nonfree (20161130-4~deb8u1) intel-microcode (3.20180807a.1~deb8u1) iucode-tool (1.1.1-1) |
| 22:49.46 | maxrazer | I do startx. Then I switch to another tty. Login. then logout or exit. Then it puts me back at the desktop, or shows it but I can't do anything and I have to reboot. |
| 22:49.48 | ryouma | maxrazer: oh, i use vt to log in, so dunno |
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| 22:51.27 | ryouma | sounds like it could be a kernel issue or maybe even a binary blob |
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| 22:55.25 | de-facto | Short question: which opcode caching is the common/std choice for stretch php 7? I want to use it with mediawiki |
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| 22:57.27 | mfunkmann | Hey folks, I need some help. I noticed that on my fresh Debian installation, there is no /etc/X11/xorg.conf, so I checked out https://wiki.debian.org/Xorg and followed the instructions. The strange thing now is, that when calling Xorg -configure, it creates the .conf file somewhere else. I guess it is in /root/xorg.conf.new which seems to not be mentioned in the Wiki ... how do I have to proceed? |
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| 22:58.36 | maxrazer | mfunkmann, All I know is I followed instructions so nvidia settings save to the configuration file properly. |
| 22:58.49 | ryouma | is there a different channel for oldstable? |
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| 23:06.28 | maxrazer | ryouma, Could my proprietary nvidia driver the the binary blob? |
| 23:06.41 | ryouma | that is what i meant yes |
| 23:06.54 | ryouma | i'm just guessing though |
| 23:06.57 | maxrazer | ryouma, I should ask other people who use the proprietary driver. |
| 23:07.15 | ryouma | i swore off those when it took me 3 months to downgrade xorg |
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| 23:07.36 | ryouma | i also swore at those |
| 23:08.05 | maxrazer | ryouma, Proprietary drivers? They cause trouble? |
| 23:08.07 | fearnothing | hi folks |
| 23:08.23 | fearnothing | I need a bit of help troubleshooting routing please |
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| 23:08.54 | ryouma | maxrazer: yeah they might be incompatible with xorg version or in principle kernel changes |
| 23:09.15 | ryouma | and nobody can fix them |
| 23:09.34 | maxrazer | ryouma, I could check to see if the problem exists without it. |
| 23:09.48 | fearnothing | I'm running qemu on debian and I need to route between a virtual network and my main interface |
| 23:09.54 | fearnothing | preferably -without- NAT |
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| 23:10.02 | maxrazer | The problem is I don't think nvidia, especially the latest hardware works very well without it. |
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| 23:10.26 | maxrazer | I don't know much about routing, except some theory. |
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| 23:18.49 | SerajewelKS | fearnothing: what do you mean by "virtual network" |
| 23:18.59 | fearnothing | ha, I got it working |
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| 23:20.08 | Exagone313 | Hi, when upgrading grub it explicitly called "grub-install --target=x86_64-efi" although I don't use EFI (and it failed by the way). How can I configure so that next upgrades install for i386-pc? |
| 23:20.11 | fearnothing | I mean that libvirt/qemu creates a virtual bridge (virbr0 by default), and a network 'vnet0', and qemu VMs pass traffic via that network/bridge |
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| 23:21.20 | SerajewelKS | fearnothing: yeah if the bridge is visible on the host, usually you would just have to assign it an IP in the same subnet as the guests, then add routing rules to the host and VMs |
| 23:21.56 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: remove grub-efi and install grub-pc |
| 23:22.07 | Exagone313 | I have both installed |
| 23:22.11 | fearnothing | yeah I'd already done that, what had happened is some script or other had added a bunch of iptables rules without me realising |
| 23:22.13 | Exagone313 | I thought it was conflicting |
| 23:22.16 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: okay. remove grub-efi. |
| 23:22.30 | fearnothing | I thought I'd made a mistake with the routing config so I hadn't been looking at iptables |
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| 23:24.30 | ntd | SerajewelKS, no |
| 23:24.38 | ntd | grub-pc-bin |
| 23:25.15 | SerajewelKS | ntd: i have no idea what you mean |
| 23:25.25 | Exagone313 | ok I think I installed both grub (on protective mbr and efi on gpt), but I boot without EFI |
| 23:25.46 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: if you don't boot with EFI then you should not install EFI on GPT |
| 23:25.50 | ntd | installing the package grub-pc-bin on a system which alreadu has efi grub will let you grub-install on both mbr and efi systems |
| 23:25.57 | SerajewelKS | you shouldn't be using grub-efi at all |
| 23:26.16 | Exagone313 | SerajewelKS: I think I wanted to use EFI in the first place |
| 23:26.28 | SerajewelKS | ntd: okay? i'm not sure why installing that is better than removing the unnecessary grub-efi package |
| 23:26.34 | Exagone313 | but right now I don't want to connect a screen to this machine in case of an issue at boot |
| 23:27.10 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: gotcha. so yeah, remove grub-efi then reinstall grub on the devices you wish to boot from. note if using GPT then this requires a BIOS boot partition. if you don't have that on the GPT disk then you can't boot from that disk. |
| 23:27.11 | ntd | SerajewelKS, because that will make the installation portable between efi and mbr systems? |
| 23:27.41 | ntd | no. better commit to one. because reasons |
| 23:28.38 | SerajewelKS | if you have a GPT with UEFI and BIOS boot partitions already, sure. or an msdos label with a UEFI partition. |
| 23:29.01 | SerajewelKS | otherwise grub-efi serves no purpose |
| 23:29.06 | Exagone313 | SerajewelKS: hmm I think I want to try EFI anyway, I got this https://ptpb.pw/Tdti |
| 23:29.21 | Exagone313 | I do have |
| 23:29.36 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: that gives me a 404 |
| 23:29.54 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: your GPT has an EFI and a BIOS boot partition? your non-GPT has an EFI partition? |
| 23:30.08 | Exagone313 | SerajewelKS: not 404 for me |
| 23:30.26 | Exagone313 | I have GPT and a /boot/efi mounted |
| 23:30.29 | SerajewelKS | hmm now it's working, before it redirected me to some arcane URL |
| 23:31.16 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: so the trick is, if you want both disks to be bootable, you have to have the /boot/efi for the device you're installing on mounted at the time you do the install |
| 23:31.37 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: i'm not sure how to accomplish that when trying to grub-install for EFI to multiple disks at once. someone else may know. |
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| 23:32.03 | SerajewelKS | maybe grub is smart enough to figure out what mountpoint to use if you mount the second one somewhere else (/boot/efi2 or somesuch) but i don't know |
| 23:32.28 | Exagone313 | it created a /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi |
| 23:32.48 | Exagone313 | what do you mean by multiple disks? |
| 23:33.21 | SerajewelKS | you said you had a GPT disk and a non-GPT disk? |
| 23:33.25 | Exagone313 | no |
| 23:33.38 | jorgedg99 | Hi |
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| 23:33.41 | Exagone313 | I have GPT with protective MBR |
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| 23:34.01 | jorgedg99 | anyone knows how to install Oracle sql-developer on debian? |
| 23:34.10 | Exagone313 | you can actually have both mbr/dos and efi grub installed at the same time |
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| 23:34.22 | Exagone313 | I have this on my iso usb key |
| 23:34.23 | SerajewelKS | Exagone313: okay then the install should have worked and i couldn't tell you why it didn't |
| 23:34.59 | Exagone313 | probably because I need to reboot into an EFI system to be able to use efibootmgr |
| 23:35.21 | Exagone313 | I think that's why I didn't do it last time, too lazy |
| 23:35.34 | Exagone313 | but thanks, I got this now |
| 23:35.54 | Exagone313 | (will come back on next grub upgrade because I'll have forgotten about this) |
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| 23:37.29 | SerajewelKS | i'm not sure why that would be the case, all efibootmgr should be doing is twiddling in /boot/efi |
| 23:37.36 | SerajewelKS | it shouldn't care how the system was booted, AFAIK |
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| 23:40.38 | BCMM | SerajewelKS: doesn't it need to access nvram or something? |
| 23:41.00 | jorgedg99 | Could anyone help me? |
| 23:41.06 | Exagone313 | "Note: efibootmgr requires that the kernel support access to EFI non-volatile variables through /sys/firmware/efi/vars or /sys/firmware/efi/efivars/" |
| 23:41.15 | Exagone313 | don't have /sys/firmware/efi right now :P |
| 23:41.16 | somiaj | I don't think it has to (though this would require using the firmware bios to go manually select the .efi file to boot from) |
| 23:41.38 | BCMM | Exagone313: yeah, i think you have to boot with efi to have access to that |
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| 23:41.55 | somiaj | yea, without being able to access the nvram, it cannot add the boot option to your firmware (or make it default), though there are ways around this in some firmware. |
| 23:42.12 | Exagone313 | this is a loophole about laziness |
| 23:42.26 | ryouma | why is intel-microcode being isntalled today? aptitude why intel-microcode says http://sprunge.us/s3rX1f but there is a suggests in there |
| 23:42.49 | somiaj | jorgedg99: oracle usually has docmentation for linux that would work in debian. Though we usually stick to supporting debian software (not third party). You would have to find someone who actually has experience with oracles software. |
| 23:43.00 | somiaj | jorgedg99: also usually you pay oracle for support with such things. |
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| 23:43.35 | somiaj | ryouma: what command did you run to install it. There are ways to configure suggests to be installed automatically, unsure if you did any change like that. |
| 23:43.43 | somiaj | ryouma: though if running intel, it is highly recommended you install it |
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| 23:46.27 | ryouma | somiaj: huh, well today as usual i did update followed by "apt-get --verbose-versions --show-upgraded dist-upgrade" and got "amd64-microcode (2.20160316.1~deb8u1) firmware-amd-graphics (20161130-4~deb8u1) firmware-misc-nonfree (20161130-4~deb8u1) intel-microcode (3.20180807a.1~deb8u1) iucode-tool (1.1.1-1)" as new packages, even though the only upgraded package was firmware-linux-nonfree which seems to have nothing |
| 23:46.28 | ryouma | to do with intel according to aptitude why. |
| 23:46.57 | ryouma | i didn't change apt to do anything with suggests |
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| 23:47.50 | somiaj | and you don't have firmware-linux installed? |
| 23:48.33 | ryouma | correct |
| 23:48.35 | ryouma | not installed |
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| 23:50.43 | somiaj | ryouma: and the output you pasted is from 'aptitude why intel-microcode' |
| 23:50.51 | ryouma | correct |
| 23:51.21 | somiaj | I don't see why it is pulling it, unless at some point in time you had firmware-linux installed. |
| 23:51.36 | ryouma | maybe the jessie lts team decided that intel just plain needed to be installed? but did not send out a notice? |
| 23:51.49 | somiaj | you could search for reverse depends on intel-microcode with aptitude or apt-rdepends if really needed. |
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| 23:52.35 | somiaj | well it would have to do that with depends some how, and you should be able to track down the actual package. But in general (espically with the intel exploit at the start of the year), having the updated microcode is suggested. |
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| 23:53.45 | ryouma | i couldn't find reverse dependfs in aptitude so i did apt-rdepends: http://sprunge.us/84Fy8h not sure what this means |
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| 23:54.37 | somiaj | that is resursive depends, you need another flag to do reverse depends |
| 23:55.00 | somiaj | ryouma: apt-rdepends -r intel-microcode |
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| 23:55.54 | ryouma | http://sprunge.us/u7i7ek but that one is not installed |
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| 23:56.51 | ryouma | if all those packages are ok to install, i will install them. but i want to track down why a new package is going to be installed even though these tools are saying it's not depended on by anything |
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| 23:59.12 | somiaj | ryouma: yea, i'm usnure why it would be installed, but I would strongly suggest installing it if you run intel cpu. |
| 23:59.58 | ryouma | ok. what about the others? |