IRC log for #debian on 20181123

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00:06.19alexandros_cHappy Thanksgiving to all my American friends
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00:12.34awal1how to stop freenode msg about +R mode?
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00:12.51awal1it bothers getting it every time i connect
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00:16.59annadaneawal1, ask #freenode
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00:19.25awal1sure; i just thought that maybe someone have the solution here yet, annadane
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00:24.38King_DuckZhi, I've booted in rescue mode from the debian cd, is there any way I can obtain the kernel configuration? I checked in proc but I see no /proc/config.gz
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00:30.14aphoriseI'm having issue getting my hardware combination working particularly with nvidia - if i start with debian 9.6 and install 4.18 kernels with nouveau enabled I have working ehternet & wifi - but as soon as I install nvidia with kms I can no longer boot back into gdm just continuesly flickers without even the ability to ctrl+alt+f2 to check whats going on  :-(
00:31.22aphoriseI've tried a lot of permutations using latest non-free firmware images but still need to use wifi dongle to get to the above mentioned points since none of the internal network devices work.
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00:34.26awal1aphorise , easy solution: remove your nvidia stuff and insert intel
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00:35.46aphoriseI have built in gpu on cpu but would like to get proper graphics - oh wow - its crazy after 3 minutes of flickering I got to gdm boot - its super wiered... maybe I can check dmesg at least now
00:37.26King_DuckZuh... where's the kernel? there is no /boot, and the /boot on the cd only has a grub directory inside
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00:51.33King_DuckZanyone around?
00:51.57awal1ask!
00:52.03awal1!ask
00:52.04dpkgIf you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
00:52.26annadanethey did.
00:52.28annadanescroll up.
00:53.06awal1logs off here
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00:53.51annadanehttps://paste.debian.net/1052902/
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00:55.08King_DuckZI asked yeah, how can I get the kernel configuration from a system I booted in rescue mode from cd? I don't see any /proc/config.gz and modprobe configs won't work
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01:09.02bitesKing_DuckZ: if you booted the rescue mode you run the kernel that comes with the installer. i don't think the kernel config comes with that, not sure why one would need that. if you want the config of the kernel of your regular image you will have to mount the boot or / partition of your system, then look in the /boot directory.
01:09.33bitess/regular image/regular system/
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01:12.23King_DuckZbites: I don't have debian installed on my system, I'm trying to install gentoo actually, but debian seems to be the only distro capable of booting on my laptop so I wanted to compare my gentoo kernel config with debian's
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01:13.11biteswell, you will not find it in recue mode.
01:13.35King_DuckZis it on some github repository or anywhere online?
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01:15.30rblss-fsfchannel limit to 1395 people?
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02:29.24*** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.6 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
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02:33.32cheapieYou know you're dealing with quirky hardware when you have to combine two Debian ISOs into one to get it to boot properly...
02:34.23cheapieBy "properly" I mean "with the CPU running in 64-bit mode" - an i386 image would boot on it with no tweaking, but I want amd64 :P
02:35.07rblss-fsf...
02:35.20cheapieCan't just use a plain amd64 image since someone thought it would be a good idea to design a computer using a 64-bit CPU and 32-bit firmware.
02:35.28rblss-fsfYour comment made me realize I may have installed 32bit on my system
02:36.02cheapierblss-fsf: "uname -m" will tell you which one you have.
02:36.16ryoumaamd64 is confusingly what you typically use depending on your hw
02:36.41ryoumax86_64 it seems
02:36.56rblss-fsfoh thank you cheapie, I got x86_64
02:37.05cheapieryouma: Yes, that's what I'm trying to install on it, and I think I can make it work, I was just complaining that the company that designed this thing didn't make it easy :P
02:37.10rblss-fsfwhy is it referred too as amd64?
02:37.15annadane!amd64
02:37.15dpkgamd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64.  Intel Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 and Xeon (since 2004) systems are x86-64.  The AMD64 architecture also supports running Debian i386 with either a -686-pae or -amd64 kernel.  See also <why amd64> and <why not amd64>.
02:37.20annadaneoh.
02:37.27annadanethought it had an etymology section thingy
02:37.29cheapierblss-fsf: AMD developed the 64-bit extensions to x86.
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02:38.07rblss-fsfyou people are awesome, glad I switched cold turkey from microsoft
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02:38.51ryouma:)
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02:39.20annadaneturkey!
02:39.27annadanea particularly apt analogy on this day.
02:39.32annadanealso, a particularly apt usage of apt.
02:39.37rblss-fsfhaha
02:40.25hyperlumicannadane: Well played.
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03:10.45cheapieWow, the touchscreen is actually working, and in the right orientation too.
03:10.52cheapieThat's better than Windows did "out of the box" :P
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03:13.14SuperSpammeri will flood all channels with crap
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03:29.52annadanehow can i check why a file isn't autocompleting in bash?
03:30.12annadaneit's an image file and i feh foo but foo doesn't autocomplete
03:30.37annadanefile foo says PNG image data, 489 x 200, 8-bit/color RGB, non-interlaced
03:33.34annadanethe ones that do autocomplete are RGBA as opposed to RGB
03:36.25annadanealt + / does work
03:38.03annadanescrew it i'll add a bash alias for it :P
03:39.00annadaneheight of laziness here
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04:03.15_marshyhey guys, i created a new partition and moved my /home to the new partition in order to install a new distro. i logged into the new distro, deleted the old /home and and edited fstab.now i can't log back into the new distro. i created a new user and it works fine, so something must've happened inside the home directory. any ideas?
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05:18.26cheapieWell, that tablet is 100% working now except that I can't tell how full the battery is. It's currently updating some stuff to see if that helps.
05:19.16cheapieI did have to put 32-bit on it, at least temporarily, but I think I know how I can switch that out later on now that _something_ is installed to it.
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07:36.26spectral1hief§4
07:36.28spectral1hief§3
07:36.40spectral1hiefoops, sorry
07:36.52spectral1hiefI tried to type /4 :P
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08:16.18rocketmagnethi everyone, i've a stringe problem -> my keyboard suddently stoped working, the mouse and the windows responds normaly but i can't use the keyboard :X, i'm using stable, the login-manager let me input charaters but after the loginmanager all input seems to fanish in ait :X
08:16.28rocketmagneti tred another keyboard with the same result
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08:23.12RoyKrocketmagnet: does it accept things like ctrl+alt+f1?
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09:08.17beemanim using xfce and my network disppear from the panel. and i cant add it back like what's his name?
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11:32.34milosshwould it be a bad idea to chown -R {whoami} /opt/ ?
11:34.04cefNo idea, but you probably want to use $(whoami) instead of {whoami} in that sort of command. :P
11:34.34bezabanwithout knowing what is in there or what needs to access it it's a bad idea
11:35.22colo-work/opt/ belongs to root
11:35.32colo-workyou could create /opt/somedir/
11:35.37colo-workand chown that according to your needs
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11:36.00bezabanI don't think debian itself puts anything in /opt, so for the custom setup ymmv, but there likely is a better way to solve what you're trying to do
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11:44.15jellymilossh: I've added write permissions so I can create dirs there, on a workstation
11:44.34jellydrwxrwxr-x 20 root adm 4096 Oct 29 15:20 /opt
11:45.54milosshjelly, oh, well that makes more sense
11:46.04shtrb|work<PROTECTED>
11:46.06milosshthat's 775?
11:46.26milosshshtrb|work, I use openjdk, so I don't really care much about oracle :)
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11:53.20jellyyes that's 775
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12:25.00schanggHi
12:25.53schanggI just installed debian Squeeze (I need this old version for a particular purpose)
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12:26.12schanggI now need to install additional packages
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12:26.38schanggand this does not work because the default path in /etc/apt/sources.list have been deprecated
12:26.43shtrb|workfind a mirror that servers that
12:26.52schanggso I was wondering if there was an archive server that still has th original paths
12:27.06shtrb|workwait , what ? /etc/apt/sources.list still work
12:27.28shtrb|workand had been working for few years already
12:27.34bitesschangg: http://archive.debian.org/  is what you are looking for.
12:27.48schanggshtrb|work yes
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12:27.51schanggbites thanks
12:27.54jelly!squeeze sources.list
12:27.54dpkgA suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" has two lines: "deb http://archive.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main" "deb http://archive.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts main".  Put "Acquire::Check-Valid-Until false;" in /etc/apt/apt.conf and run «aptitude update».  Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <squeeze-lts> <squeeze-updates> and "man sources.list".
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12:28.08shtrb|workschangg, https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
12:28.10schanggjelly thanks a lot
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12:35.46NetTerminalGenehow can i learn which mesa version installed?
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12:37.54jellyNetTerminalGene: you can look at the version of its main package, libgl1-mesa-glx
12:38.04jkenHello, I am having an issue on a particular piece of hardware. (Intel compute stick STK1A32SC). Running debian stretch with kernel 4.18 from stretch-backports. Sometimes when the device boots it locks up completely with the last line logged in the startup being "switching from EFI VGA to inteldrmfb". I've tried every combination of i915 parameters imaginable but nothing seems to deal with the issue. I am now trying to use the hardware watchdog to catch
12:38.04jkenthis scenario and simply pwoer cycle the device again (as it only happens on ~1% of boots, but the framebuffer switch often happens before the watchdog driver is loaded and the watchdog device is initialized. Can anyone offer any advice?
12:38.54jellyjken: if you don't need accelerated graphics you could blacklist i915 completely
12:39.54jkenUnfortunately our product essentually a video player. so disabling accelerated graphics entirely is not idela.
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12:40.56jellyI suspect #intel-gfx channel might know a thing or two about debugging i915
12:41.20jkenoh thanks, i didn't realize they had their own channel. I'll post in there as well.
12:43.15jellyyou might also force relevant watchdog modules loading in initramfs, and hope that's enough
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12:44.24jkenjelly, I was wondering about that. Would I need to compile my own kernel to ensure the watchdog drivers are loaded before i915?
12:44.30jellyno
12:44.57jellyadd stuff to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and rebuild initramfs
12:46.25jkenoh nice, I will look into that and give it a try
12:46.29jkenthanks jelly
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12:53.02NetTerminalGenejelly, is this real mesa backported? https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libgl1-mesa-glx&searchon=names&section=all&suite=stretch-backports
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12:54.05outZoNeпривет
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12:54.16outZoNe!кг
12:54.18outZoNe!ru
12:54.29NetTerminalGenejelly, if i install it i will get the newer mesa?
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12:55.03at0m,v libgl1-mesa-glx
12:55.04juddPackage: libgl1-mesa-glx on amd64 -- wheezy: 8.0.5-4+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 8.0.5-4+deb7u2; jessie: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1; jessie-backports: 13.0.6-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 13.0.6-1+b2; stretch-backports: 18.1.9-1~bpo9+1; buster: 18.1.9-1; sid: 18.2.5-3
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13:00.02ladderffgood morning EST, #debian
13:00.35ladderffwhat does it take to get systemd IdleSuspend working on an unremarkable desktop deploy of Debian with Cinnamon?
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13:03.19NetTerminalGeneintel's new spectre mitigation causes 50 percent drop in some linux workload
13:05.19at0mdid they also say there's 7 new vulns discovered?
13:05.20shtrb|workThere is a new one ?
13:08.32NetTerminalGenehttps://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-after-big-linux-performance-hit-spectre-v2-patch-needs-curbs/
13:09.31at0mNetTerminalGene: feel welcome to discuss this non-debian related in #debian-offtopic
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13:12.36jellyNetTerminalGene: you'd have to get libgl1-mesa-dri from backports, and maybe some other stuff
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13:18.29milosshlet's go with 777!
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13:18.46jellyno.
13:19.07milosshbut mom!
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13:40.49scatterbrainzmorning
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13:41.34scatterbrainzmorning
13:41.36scatterbrainzugh
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13:41.50scatterbrainzanyone know how to open gui desktop debian from ssh command line
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13:43.45jellyscatterbrainz: from a different machine?
13:44.06jellyscatterbrainz: does the system you're running ssh client on, have an X server running?
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13:46.04scatterbrainzi don't know about the "x" server
13:46.08scatterbrainzyes login remote SSH
13:46.28scatterbrainzonly console users are allow to run the x-server
13:46.35scatterbrainzi may logged in as root
13:46.48scatterbrainzxinit: giving up
13:46.58scatterbrainzxinit: unable to connect o x server: connection refused
13:47.05scatterbrainzxinit: server error
13:47.08scatterbrainzmaybe its not running
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13:56.20n_1-c_kscatterbrainz: this works for me, https://paste.debian.net/1052968/
13:57.09hyperlumicscatterbrainz: You'll need an X server running on the client, and you'll need to use X forwarding via SSH.
13:57.52scatterbrainzis that the command or a script ?
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13:59.26hyperlumicscatterbrainz: What OS is the client?
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13:59.33scatterbrainzosx
13:59.37scatterbrainzterm. window
13:59.50scatterbrainzmaybe ya can't run desktop from a term window
13:59.57emilenglerIs there a way or article how to request a package for the debian repositories ?
14:00.11tarzeauwhich software?
14:00.13greycat!rfp
14:00.13dpkgRequest For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian.  See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start.  Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>.  The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>.
14:00.24hyperlumicscatterbrainz: Then you will need to install XQuartz, and connect to the remote end with the correct flag to enable X forwarding.
14:00.59tarzeauemilengler: i'm in turbo packaging mode!
14:01.21emilenglertarzeau: What do you mean by that ?
14:01.34tarzeauemilengler: you post an url of some free software, i package it
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14:02.05tarzeaumaybe, if the software has a known-to-me buildsystem (qmake, make, ./configure, cmake)
14:02.09emilenglertarzeau: Also maintaining it ?
14:02.16tarzeauemilengler: if i like the software, sure
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14:02.37tarzeaui don't do libraries, but leaf packages (qt5, sdl2, cli, gnustep) is fine
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14:08.40multunhey, I couldn't manage to install and enable a templated systemd unit file using dh_systemd_enable
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14:09.20multuna comment in the source code seems to imply such a feature is expected to exist
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14:11.05shtrb|worktarzeau, most recent nodejs :D
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14:13.34tarzeaushtrb|work: build system?
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14:14.12hyperlumicnodejs' 8.x branch is still actively supported, and is available via stretch-backports.
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14:14.48hyperlumicThat said, I would prefer to see the latest LTS branch in buster, so that it doesn't hit EOL/EOS during buster's lifecycle.
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14:18.21milosshbtw, happy Fibonacci day!
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14:21.51multunso is there any way to install and enable a templated unit :'( ?
14:22.35multunI mean a way that doesn't involve dirty postinst/... scripts
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14:26.38jkenjelly, I've added iTCO_wdt to initramfs, and confirmed the driver is being loaded alot earlier in the boot. However, it still does not seem to kick in. Looks like the iTCO_wdt module only has 2 params, timeout and nowayout, any idea how I can start the watchdog timer when the driver is loaded? I think even though the driver is loaded earlier, the timer is not initialized until watchdogd starts in userspace.
14:26.46jkenWhich is after the failure on boot I am trying to work aroud./
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14:49.32hyperlumic!ssb
14:49.32dpkgFirst, check for a backport on <debian-backports>.  If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs.  To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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14:52.46annadanehow does one keep ssb's up to date anyway, with security fixes?
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14:53.27hyperlumicI assume by monitoring the version in sid, and re-backporting it. I can't seem to remember the bot command for checking if something can be backported.
14:53.37greycatYou'd have to manually re-backport it yourself every time a security update is provided.
14:54.09annadanejudd, checkbackport libc6 --fromrelease sid --torelease stretch
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14:54.20annadanelike that ^ except it's not responding now
14:54.22hyperlumicThank you!
14:54.24juddBackporting package libc6 in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: binutils (>= 2.29) [amd64 i386 x32], g++-7, g++-7 (>= 7.2.0-20) [amd64 i386 x32], g++-7-multilib [amd64 i386 kfreebsd-amd64 mips mipsel mipsn32 mipsn32el mips64 mips64el mipsr6 mipsr6el mipsn32r6 mipsn32r6el mips64r6 mips64r6el powerpc ppc64 s390x sparc sparc64 x32] <!nobiarch>, libc-bin (>= 2.27)
14:54.25judd<cross>.
14:54.37jellythere was a thing that would track new deb-src and new upstream and automagically build things
14:54.42jelly!autodeb
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14:54.47annadaneoh because it has to compute all the incompatible stuff. i intentionally chose one that's basically impossible to backport :P
14:55.08jellyhttps://salsa.debian.org/autodeb-team/autodeb
14:55.16colo-workjelly, we mostly use "The Debian Project" for that :^)
14:55.26annadanei guess one could set up an rss feeder with the various tracker.debian.org/foo
14:55.44colo-work(but that's a neat idea, actually!)
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15:31.52beepnboop-quick question, how do i do 2 commands at the same time
15:31.59beepnboop-update and upgrade
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15:32.36greycatYou can't do apt update and apt upgrade at the same time.  The apt update has to go first.
15:32.48beepnboop-oof
15:33.00xandput && in between them
15:33.02greycatSo, this is fine:  apt update && apt upgrade
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15:33.19greycatThat runs the first command first, waits for it to complete, and then runs the second command IF the first one didn't "fail".
15:33.35greycatBut this is NOT fine:   apt update & apt upgrade &
15:33.41beepnboop-do i need to do sudo on both too?
15:33.46greycatThat would try to run them at the same time, which would blow up.
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15:34.05greycatyes, they have to be executed as root
15:34.27beepnboop-sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
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15:37.36GenTooManhow does one remove something from the apt install queue that is already installed? it's obviously giving an error and attempts to install each time I do an update and apply upgrades
15:38.18greycatjust remove the package with dpkg --remove, or whatever
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15:41.06GenTooMansounds like a plan
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15:43.36nidhoeggerHi. Ive updated to debian buster to test my software if its running there. I encountered an issue regarding apt / dpkg. When I use "su" to gain privilege, apt is not functional, resulting in "dpkg: warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable". I checked PATH and /sbin is not in there. However, doing "su -l" makes it work. is this a known bug?
15:43.54greycatYes, buster changed the su command.  It no longer changes your PATH.
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15:44.01nidhoeggerahh okay, thank you
15:44.07nidhoeggeris there a new way to gain superuser?
15:44.13nidhoeggeror does debian switch to sudo?
15:44.15greycat!debian-next
15:44.15dpkg#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
15:44.21nidhoeggerthanks
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15:49.47jellynidhoegger: just use "su -"
15:50.26nidhoeggerfound that out, too :P its the same as "su -l" (i think)
15:50.34nidhoeggerasking in debian-next atm for the reasons
15:50.41jellynod
15:50.41greycatThere are at least 3 viable solutions to the buster su problem, not counting non-viable but obviously correct solutions like "convince the maintainer to fix the default behavior".
15:51.08nidhoeggerdunno, is "su -" really wrong?
15:51.15nidhoeggerwhen I started linux on gentoo this was pretty normal
15:51.26nidhoeggerand it tells su to create a login environment
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15:52.03greycatRetraining 25 years of your knowledge and workflow, teaching yourself to type "su -" like a filthy redhatter, is one of the viable solutions.  This has drawbacks, of course.  It changes your current working directory, so you can't do "su -" and then "make install".
15:52.25nidhoeggerhmmm did not think about that
15:52.34nidhoeggerI am at least happy that su still is there and I dont have to use sudo :P
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15:53.16greycatThe second viable solution is to put /usr/sbin and /sbin in your personal PATH, so that it's there in your PATH after you su.  And before you su.
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15:55.36greycatThe third is to use "sudo bash" instead of "su".
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15:56.15greycatThe drawback of the third solution is that sudo strips a lot of environment variables that you might want to keep around, unless you configure sudo to stop doing that.
15:56.47tsgloveI usually run   ip -a    to see the status of, say enp0s3            yet, how can I run that command JUST for the interface enp0s3?
15:57.11greycatip addr show dev enp0s3
15:57.31hyperlumictsglove: And the dash isn't needed.
15:57.34greycatyou can omit "dev" but you cannot omit "show", because the UI design of ip is a shitshow
15:58.00tsgloveomg thank you for letting me know it's a shitshow.  I thought I was going crazy
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15:58.05tsgloveThanks to both
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15:58.06tsglove=)
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15:58.44premobossi create a new partition and moved /usr into to take separate from /. but when i went to /etc/fstab to add a new entry, i discovered that does not exist animore. another damage camin from that never-hated-enough systemd. where have i to poke to add "/dev/sda4 /usr ext4 default 0 0"
15:58.59annadanei guess su - will be recommended when buster becomes stable then
15:59.00premoboss?
15:59.06GenTooMangreycat: fortunately that did the job, thanks
15:59.16greycatpremoboss: you *really* want to use UUID or LABEL instead of /dev/sda4 in your fstab
15:59.54premobossgreycat, yes. anyway, where to do the magic?
16:00.00greycatIn /etc/fstab
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16:01.28premobossgreycat, /etc/fstab is empty. if i do cat /etc/fstab i get as reply this: #UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM
16:01.38greycatIt is not empty in a normal Debian system.
16:02.11premobossmmm so probably i did some mess around.
16:03.43Ede|Popedepremoboss: if you tried to edit it before, you could do a find in /etc. possibly it was saved under another name.
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16:04.55Ede|Popedeerr... grep, not find
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16:05.12greycatfind /etc -name '*fstab*'   is not a bad idea either
16:05.28greycatalthough it's not likely to be much better than    ls /etc/*fstab*
16:05.30premobossumpf.. i regret so bad dibina moved to systemd.
16:05.50premobossumpf.. i regret so bad debian moved to systemd.
16:06.12greycatsystemd would not explain why your fstab is "empty" except a single comment
16:06.14hyperlumicI somehow don't see how systemd is relevant to the fact that you've apparently damaged your system.
16:06.38premobossgreycat, it was a "side" complain.
16:06.40premoboss:-)
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16:07.48premobosshyperlumic, i have my resposnability to have damaged my system for sure. but at ther same time i blame debian moved to systemd. them are 2 independet facts :-)
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16:09.12hyperlumicStill waiting to hear a cogent argument against that choice. I suspect I'll be waiting a very, very long time.
16:10.11greycatThe only *technical* argument I've ever heard that holds any water is about the binary log file format.
16:10.17premobosshyperlumic, systemd force me to learn different command and get out from my "comfort zone"
16:10.27jimpremoboss, did anything specific happen because you got switched to systemd?
16:10.29annadaneoh no!
16:10.57premobossnothing is more annoing than to be forced to change your own routine :)
16:11.05jimpremoboss, but no specific problems have occured?
16:11.21hyperlumicWhy am I hearing violins in the background?
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16:11.40shtrbhyperlumic, systemd services can refuse to start if they do not identify a verb (because of a bug or config) - had a fire alarm stopped working because of that
16:11.48jimpremoboss, that's just gonna happen every once in awhile... things change
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16:11.52premobosshyperlumic, i ear also angel crying asking back previous init ,.-)
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16:12.04hyperlumicpremoboss: No, that's just you.
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16:12.33premobossjim, unfortunately the bad side is when you are forced to change, not coose to change. thats life.
16:12.33jimany chance we can stop the personal attacks?
16:12.34shtrbit's also will perform default network connection (ntp wize) if you did not setup anything. Debian people at least saved us and setup debian servers instead of google
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16:12.49joepublicActually a lot of people seem to hear those same angels crying.  doesn't mean it's happening, just means people think it is.
16:13.01premobossahahah yes.
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16:13.46jimpremoboss, it's not so bad
16:13.48premobossi must resign to learn deep this f+king systemd.
16:14.10hyperlumicThe first step is learning not to complain about it at every turn.
16:15.02premobosshyperlumic, oh, i am so skilled at complain :-)
16:15.20hyperlumicSure, but imagine what you could achieve if you channeled that energy into something useful instead.
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16:15.38premobosshyperlumic, 1 point to you.
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16:16.00jusssI can't use apt-get install wireguard in stretch
16:16.06jussspackage not found
16:16.17greycat,v wireguard
16:16.18juddPackage: wireguard on amd64 -- sid: 0.0.20181119-1
16:16.53greycat!checkbackport wireguard
16:16.54hyperlumicIsn't wireguard still in "do not rely on this code" state?
16:16.59greycat,checkbackport wireguard
16:17.00juddBackporting package wireguard in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, stretch-backports.
16:17.13joepublicTo register an official complaint you can 'sudo nano /dev/null' and write your complaint(s) - when you save it registers the complaints officially.
16:17.25jusssso it's in stretch-backports ?
16:17.29jusssnot in stretch
16:17.33greycatI don't have a clue what a wireguard is, but (a) correct, it's not in stretch, or even in buster; (b) you can backport it from sid's source
16:17.58greycatIf it were in stretch-backports, judd would have said so.  It's not.
16:18.03annadanehttps://xkcd.com/1172/
16:18.14jussswhy debian have some many different repos, why no just one like archlinux
16:18.15hyperlumicgreycat: VPN implementation that's got a lot of promise, but it's still in a very early state. "WireGuard is not yet complete. You should not rely on this code. It has not undergone proper degrees of security auditing and the protocol is still subject to change." is on the website.
16:18.40greycatSounds like a great reason for it not to be in a stable release.
16:19.03hyperlumicIndeed.
16:19.25hyperlumicjusss: Debian is not Arch Linux. Debian has different objectives than Arch does.
16:19.30multunhyperlumic: that's the kind of very early state that would be merged upstream almost soon
16:19.47annadanedebian only has 3, maybe 4 repos if you include backports
16:19.53annadaneit's up to you to decide whether that's a lot
16:19.58multunjust because it will be so much better than existing stuff already in the kernel
16:20.11jussshyperlumic: still not found on stretch-backports main, so ? add non-free contrib what?
16:20.29hyperlumicmultun: For a cryptographic implementation, I don't really care where it's merged. Until its stabilized and undergoes a proper security audit, it's not worth much except as a toy.
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16:20.38jimpremoboss, these kinds of changes will happen periodically... in fact, every time you upgrade to a new major version of debian, you replace every package, and things -will- change.
16:21.13joepublicnot every package is replaced.  some are same version right back to wheezy.
16:21.18jusssapt-get install -t stretch-backports wireguard
16:21.26jusssE: Unable to locate package wireguard
16:21.35greycatAs we already said, it is NOT in stretch-backports.
16:21.36hyperlumicjusss: It doesn't exist in stretch backports. You will have to do the backporting yourself.
16:21.53premobossjim, i know since 1999 when i start wit potato 2.2. anyway, move to systemd seems to me so... "innatural". just only my opinion, of course.
16:21.55jussswhere it is
16:22.05greycat!simple sid backport
16:22.05dpkgFirst, check for a backport on <debian-backports>.  If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs.  To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
16:22.19joepublicjusss,  it's in deb-src sid
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16:24.07jusssok
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16:25.03jusssapt apt-get aptitude apt-xxx why so many apt
16:25.15jussswhy not just one
16:25.16greycatbecause everyone has their own preferred tool
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16:25.56jimpremoboss, I don't remember which upgrade this was, but there was a time the binary and executable format was not elf, it was called "a.out format"... in one upgrade, debian moved the executables from a.our to elf, moved from libc4 to libc5... which was a big change... I watched as my installation of debian was upgraded past both of these points at the same time.. that was impressive, and is the initial reason I still run debian today
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16:27.33jusssyeah, then it turn to systemd
16:29.04premobossjim i got in love with debian in 1999. potato 2.2 was so bad, no network works. no GUI works. no audio works. instead mandrake 7.2 was easy and fast. but i got the challenge to learn to run debian. And since that moment it was my only distro. simply systemd for me are so hard to bite. maybe i am getting too much old to embrace changes.
16:29.46Ede|Popedechanges always mean work. needs time.
16:30.22jusssI wonder where is wayland and Mir, and why Xorg is still the best
16:30.32jimpremoboss, I can understand... systemd is a very big change
16:30.32jusssthat's not changes I think
16:30.53greycatThe next Debian release is probably going to include Wayland if you use GNOME.
16:31.25jusssgreycat: but ubuntu just return Xorg from wayland
16:31.31jusssreturn to
16:31.35greycatI know almost nothing about it.
16:31.41Ede|Popedehow is wayland in ressources compared to X?
16:31.44nidhoeggeris it somehow possible to tell the debuild script to build a package for another architecture?
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16:32.19greycatEde|Popede: well, since 99.9% of everything you run is using X11 libs and protocols, you still need an X11-to-Wayland layer of some kind, so it really doesn't SAVE you anything...
16:32.21jussssystemd is taking the world
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16:33.09premobossjusss, the qeustion is WHERE is bringing it.
16:33.12jussssystemd has container to replace virtual stuff,  has network stuff to replace networking
16:33.23jkenI've added iTCO_wdt to initramfs, and confirmed the driver is being loaded alot earlier in the boot. However, it still does not seem to kick in. Looks like the iTCO_wdt module only has 2 params, timeout and nowayout, any idea how I can start the watchdog timer when the driver is loaded? I think even though the driver is loaded earlier, the timer is not initialized until watchdogd starts in userspace, which I will never get to
16:33.25Ede|Popedemy order by mem usually is firefox, followed by X and then... pa-volume -.-
16:33.38greycatjusss: Both of which are off by default, and you would have to GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to use them.
16:34.04Ede|Popedestill no alsamixer-like client for pa?
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16:34.35jusssgreycat: I still don't understand why the most distros choose systemd finally
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16:34.41greycat!why systemd
16:34.41dpkga tired argument.  Start by reading rra's excellent analysis at https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2013/12/msg00234.html  Support for other init systems (sysvinit) is still present in Debian 8.  systemd-shim allows userspace requiring some systemd APIs to work without it.  See <jessie sysvinit> if you have to delay or wish to avoid using it.
16:35.27greycatdpkg, why systemd =~ s/8/8-9/
16:35.27dpkggreycat: OK
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16:36.19greycatIn a nutshell, it's because everything else is worse.
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16:36.57greycatIf you think "but sysvinit was fine! I used it all the time!" then I'm sorry, but you are not technically equipped to have this conversation in the first place.
16:37.17jusssI don't understand debian is for desktop user right? not just for server?
16:37.27greycatIt is for everyone, hopefully.
16:37.39greycatWhat does that have to do with systemd?
16:37.49joepublicAnd please note that that substantive analysis was written about 1700 days ago =-- 1700 days during each of which someone has launched a non-substantive complaint.  Now on day 1701 why would you think that yours would be the special one that convinced everyone?
16:37.50jusssthen why debian installed exim ??? it's a smtp server, and I don't see it on other distros
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16:38.12greycatexim4 is the default MTA in Debian if you didn't select a different one, and if you install something that requires an MTA, such as cron
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16:38.53greycatIf you're asking "why did Debian choose exim as the default MTA", that's a WHOLE different argument.
16:38.57xandwhy does debian still have init scripts in /etc/init.d ?
16:39.02xande.g. for ssh
16:39.06greycatbecause not every package has been migrated to systemd yet
16:39.08jusssaha, I install cron , I have to install a MTA?
16:39.20joepublicdebian runs on non-linux kernels, for that matter.
16:39.21greycatcron has to be able to send you email with the output of your jobs
16:39.29greycatthat's what cron DOES
16:39.57Ede|Popedewho exactly is "you" here? local root?
16:40.02jusssgreycat: but others distros why don't do that
16:40.09greycatWhoever creates a cron job.  Yes, root has some by default.
16:40.17greycatjusss: ask them.
16:40.37greycatIf susie creates a cron job, then cron has to be able to email susie.  And so on.
16:40.59jusssyeah, another question why exim as default? why not postfix, sendmail,
16:41.06Ede|Popedesimple text file wouldn't be less usable
16:41.22greycatTHIS.  IS.  WHAT.  CRON.  DOES.
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16:41.38greycatHas done so since the 1990s.  Or before.
16:42.12hansolcan i install (run) debian to USB flash drive, but keep working files to HDD ?
16:42.17greycatOh, look, it's even in POSIX.  http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/crontab.html
16:42.30greycat"If standard output and standard error are not redirected by commands executed from the crontab entry, any generated output or errors shall be mailed, via an implementation-defined method, to the user."
16:43.15joepublichansol, define working files?
16:43.38jusssI haven't tried debian on other kernels
16:44.03jusssmaybe I should try it, and see what it is
16:44.06j0sephI heard it can run on GNU/Hurd, too.
16:44.19jusssand Hurd is out?
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16:44.35greycatI haven't hurd any news about Hurd in a long time.
16:44.52joepublicdebian on other kernels is a not-ready-for-prime-time experiment.  If you don't like debian being technically excellent and standards compliant, then you surely will not be happy about taking that and breaking a bunch of it to get it to work with an alien kernel.
16:44.55j0sephSort of? It's updated with the regularity that an elephant jumps, but it's 'out' I suppose.
16:45.01jellyjusss, neither hurd nor kfreebsd* are release platforms right now
16:45.04jusssgreycat: debian on arm is official supported?
16:45.14greycatI think so.
16:45.30greycatI don't know which of the various ARM arches are supported and which are not.
16:45.44jusssgreycat: then chroot on android
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16:45.58greycatI am not the best person to ask about ARM stuff.
16:46.13jellythere's a #debian-arm on irc.debian.org
16:46.14hansolhttp://alioth.debian.org/projects/debian-knoppix
16:46.18hansolwhy i cant open file ?
16:46.19jusssI did try chroot debian and archlinux on android arm v7h
16:46.32jusssa few years ago
16:46.46jusssbut time's changed
16:46.46jellyhansol, alioth is dead.  What references that URL?
16:47.03hansoljoepublic appache files and all program files stored in hdd ?
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16:47.36hansolthere debian live cd ?
16:47.42greycat!live
16:47.42dpkgThe Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own.  These can be used to install a Debian system.  Live images are available from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ .  http://live.debian.net/  #debian-live on irc.debian.org.  See also <live firmware>.  For Debian 8 "Jessie", you CANNOT install in <UEFI> mode from a Debian Live image. See <live stretch>.
16:47.44joepublichansol, during install the usb stick should be available just like any other drive, and the configuration you are describing sounds possible.
16:48.13jusssI tried install debian through debian bootstrap
16:48.42hansolok i have choosed manual hardware installation
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16:52.35hansoli have SDA HITACHI and SDC Kingston
16:53.51hansolwhere i have to install RAW
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17:13.34hansolfailed to determine the codename of release
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17:14.26ikarosuusiheya
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17:14.49hansolfailed to determine the codename of the release
17:15.23hansolon install base system
17:15.44ikarosuusimy soundcard keeps "turning on / off" depending on activity
17:15.48ikarosuusior something like that
17:15.54ikarosuusiproducing massive popping
17:16.13ikarosuusiwhen it goes off the speakers bang and then it's a quiet buzz
17:16.50ikarosuusiwhen it turns on it's another massive bang followed by either the source of sound or just silence depending on the source of the sound
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17:17.10ikarosuusihttps://brainaural.com/ doesn't produce any sound
17:17.16ikarosuusibut youtube activates the card
17:17.28ikarosuusiit's like ... killing my speakers
17:18.04amicoflfailed to determine the codename of release >> you try netinstall?
17:18.39amicoflpulseaudio?
17:20.40at0mikarosuusi: that sounds like powersaving. as root, echo 'on' > '/sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:1b.0/power/control' where "00:1b.0" is as per lspci | grep Audio
17:21.15at0mikarosuusi: so lspci first, to find where your soundcard's at, then as root that echo line^
17:21.28at0malternatively, check out powertop
17:22.21at0mikarosuusi: you could first cat that /sys/bus/.. file, it's probably "auto" now
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17:24.19ikarosuusihmm it's on
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17:25.44at0mikarosuusi: is this powered speakers? what happens if you plug in headphones? (could be something with your electrical power, maybe bad ground/static somewhere?)
17:26.11ikarosuusiit happens the moment i put youtube on
17:27.01ikarosuusilike *pop* *pop* SOUND *click pause* *takes a second* *pop* quiet hiss
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17:27.09at0mand only with youtube? what if you play local media? or youtube-dl $sameYTlink?
17:27.29ikarosuusiit's a fresh machine so I don't have any local media
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17:27.54ikarosuusiinstalling youtube-dl
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17:28.21hansolcan u give me debian preconfiguration file
17:28.28hansolgood for webhosting
17:29.10at0mdo other sites give same error? here's a song recently posted in #opensourcemusicians, if you want a local file, wget https://linx.li/selif/o6jdzg52.ogg
17:29.17hyperlumichansol: No. You need to learn how to build, operate, manage, and maintain your own system.
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17:30.21ikarosuusiyeah, other sites "give same error"
17:30.22annadanealso if you're webhosting probably better to actually understand the technology rather than just blindly get told the answers
17:30.32hansolbut give me preconfiguration file it needed for automate install
17:30.35annadanethere may be a few articles on it though
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17:30.54ikarosuusithe error the sites give, is activating the sound card
17:30.57ikarosuusiwhich isn't an error at all
17:31.01ikarosuusiquite contrary
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17:31.24hyperlumichansol: My previous statement remains unchanged.
17:31.27ikarosuusithe error seems to be somewhere else, turning the device seemingly off, thus leading an electric spike to the speakers, unwanted
17:31.47ikarosuusiit's not only destructive, but it's quite unbearable
17:32.02hyperlumichansol: Learn how to build and administer the system instead of relying on preconfigured stuff that you don't understand.
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17:33.30ikarosuusipower management really sounded like it
17:33.33ikarosuusibut I guess not then
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17:35.24at0mikarosuusi: if it's not, set your computer's volume way up, and your amp down.
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17:35.53at0mcos if the amp is set to not be too loud, i wonder how it can produce such loud bursts
17:36.29at0mthis won't solve the burst, but may make it more acceptable for now
17:37.07ikarosuusihttps://brainaural.com/ i wonder why this site doesn't give off a sound though
17:37.26ikarosuusibut I guess you're right, setting the amp low is going to have to do for now..
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17:37.55ikarosuusibecause I just hit an error after 7 hours of compiling tensorflow on the other machine
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17:38.23at0mdo you have something that blocks scripts in your browser, like noscript? if so, allow scripts for brainaural.com
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17:38.40kirk781NoScript can be a pain in the ass sometimes.
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17:39.07greycatSeriously, I'd start by playing an audio file from local disk.
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17:39.18greycatRule out *all* of the web and network stuff first.
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17:39.39at0mikarosuusi: did you youtube-dl an url or wget that linx.li?
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17:40.42joepublicI_StartupSound: Hope you hear a pop.
17:42.25ikarosuusiit's pretty obvious "the effect" is happening as we communicate
17:42.46ikarosuusibecause when this symptom is at the "off" state (i have named it), then there's a buzzing
17:43.06ikarosuusiwhen it becomes "on", it pops, followed by silence
17:43.11ikarosuusiwhich is the audio
17:43.25ikarosuusiwhich is then followed by the actual audio
17:43.27at0mikarosuusi: sounds like static. you haven't played a local file, nor tried headphones to exclude bad electrical wiring.
17:43.29ikarosuusiget it?
17:43.38ikarosuusithere's supposed to be silence, but there isn't
17:43.39at0mi get it but you're not answering questions
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17:44.01ikarosuusiyeah the headphones are in an awkward place
17:44.06ikarosuusiand I'm downloading the local file
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17:44.18at0mok we'll wait for results for that.
17:44.27ikarosuusiyes happens with the local file too
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17:45.03ikarosuusias soon as I pause the youtube video (local) it takes about one and a half seconds to go into this let's call it power saving mode for lack of a better term
17:45.44at0mok. now headphones. and if that's too hard to find, try different wall socket for electrical power. preferably on the same line as your computer.
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17:47.02ikarosuusiI'll go get the headphones
17:47.11at0mcloser in the line to your computer is less prone to static noise - both amp & pc will have same DC offset and ground
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17:47.25ikarosuusimeanwhile: I turned vlc volume to 3% so it's practically inaudible
17:47.39ikarosuusiset the thing to repeat, and now there's silence.
17:47.40at0mikarosuusi: turn the amp down instead
17:47.47at0mand leave pc level UP
17:48.10at0myou're only decreasing signal to noise ratio by turning audio level down on the pc.
17:48.17at0maka, more noise.
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17:48.35annadanei can't believe i have to ask this but where can i put waterfox (yes i know it's not a part of debian) so it actually auto updates, just my home directory? i think i tried that last time and it wouldn't update
17:49.10annadanei think for the typical program it should do that
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17:49.36annadaneas far as i know i haven't changed any attributes in my home
17:49.54annadanedrwxr-xr-x
17:50.35annadanei'll go ask them and not bother you guys, anyway
17:51.13joepublicThere is a waterfox repository; see: https://github.com/hawkeye116477/waterfox-deb
17:51.41annadanei don't really feel like automatically trusting that
17:51.48joepublicas you wish.
17:53.46annadane<PROTECTED>
17:54.12annadaneif i can just find their irc channel i can ask them
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17:55.01ikarosuusiI'm not getting anything from the headphones
17:55.37at0mikarosuusi: in the same plug?
17:55.41ikarosuusiyeah, same plug
17:55.51at0mikarosuusi: and your volume is above 3% already?
17:55.55ikarosuusiyep
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17:56.22ikarosuusithe 3% + repeat made it so that it doesn't deactivate, thus keeping it from not going to the noisy state
17:56.33ikarosuusithat was it's only purpose
17:56.46ikarosuusiI did turn the amp down though just so it doesn't break any equipment
17:56.49at0mah. but your alsa volume is up? check in alsamixer
17:57.27ikarosuusiyep, it's up
17:57.30at0mif the bursts are so loud you're afraid to damage gear, i suspect your amp is way too loud and your pc volume down somewhere
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17:57.45at0mdon't just check the tray cos alsamixer has different channels that could be down
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17:58.02ikarosuusiat0m yeah this is the third time I'm saying this to you: I turned the amp down. Now accept it.
17:58.05watchcati just put standalone programs in ~/bin/, but i gues you could make a use 'slone' (or something) and put them in that dir. then make yourself a member of the slone group with r/w/x access. annadane.
17:58.41ikarosuusiyeah I'm sure it's up
17:58.47ikarosuusilike, it's a simple card
17:58.59annadanei need to ask them anyway because they know the structure of their program more than #debian
17:59.00annadanesorry for the noise
17:59.14ikarosuusilooking at both, alsamixer and pulsemixer
17:59.18at0mikarosuusi: mine too. intel-hda, 18 controls.
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18:00.13ikarosuusiI got hda-nvidia, 10 all-in-all, counting playback, capture and loopback mixing
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18:03.28ikarosuusiok huh weird pulseaudio --kill did it now I got sound from headphones
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18:03.44orlHi!
18:03.59ikarosuusiand the headphones pop too
18:04.01greycatWoo!
18:04.01orlI'm experiencing some problems with dri in playonlinux since a recent upgrade
18:04.25ikarosuusiI'd rather pop the speakers with low amp though
18:04.53orlI get errors complaining about i915_dri.so and swrast_dri that can't be loaded
18:05.10orlstill, those libs are present in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
18:05.26orlI've tried linking them straitghly in /usr/lib/dri, but it doesn't work either.
18:06.01orlAnd all the researches I did on the web lead me to old problems not related (at first sight) with mine.
18:06.04orlany idea?
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18:24.52orlOK, I just found it
18:24.55orlI needed to use stretch-backports version of libmesa
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18:51.44zmeuHeya! why I can ping6 from external to my ip, but internal I don't have reply ?
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18:55.04CyberFingersI'm not able to get a crontab to execute, only works from command line. Any suggestions how to get this work? Thanks
18:55.21jkenIf I configure an interface to use link-local rather than DHCP, will it receive the same IP address on each boot?
18:55.24hyperlumiczmeu: Commands and output would be helpful here.
18:55.29jken(if not already taken on the network segment)
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18:56.13zmeuPING google.com(bud02s22-in-x0e.1e100.net (2a00:1xxxxxx)) 56 data bytes
18:56.14zmeu--- google.com ping statistics ---
18:56.15zmeu5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4074ms
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18:57.13zmeuPING 2a03:9c00:f:19::dead(2a03:9c00:f:19::dead) 56 data bytes
18:57.13zmeu64 bytes from 2a03:9c00:f:19::dead: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=4.39 ms
18:57.14greycatwhyindahell would you spit out every piece of the line including the fully qualified domain name and then censor the IPv6 address OF THAT VERY SAME fqdn, when both of them are as public as you can possibly get
18:57.43zmeufrom external source i can ping my server.. but internal i cannot do anything, ping, wget, etc
18:58.20hyperlumicYou're not google, so I assume you mean ping FROM your server?
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18:58.32zmeuyes
18:58.44zmeufirst output is form my server
18:58.45zmeufrom*
18:58.51zmeui have 100% packet loss
18:59.02zmeuwhen I try to ping google
18:59.03hyperlumiczmeu: Start over, and describe your issue correctly, please.
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18:59.57zmeuokay. why I cannot access internet over ipv6 from my server? and why I can ping my server from another server(external source) and internal i cannot do it
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19:01.02hyperlumiczmeu: You keep talking about pinging your server, but then the output you provide shows that you're pinging something else FROM your own system, so which is it?
19:01.13zmeuman
19:01.19BCMMzmeu: that ping command you showed; did you run it on your server or what?
19:01.25zmeuyes
19:01.38greycatThere were two ping outputs shown (partially shown).
19:01.44greycatIt's confusing as hell.
19:02.09BCMMoh, right
19:02.10zmeu# ping6 google.com
19:02.10zmeuPING google.com(bud02s26-in-x0e.1e100.net (2a00:1450:400d:809::200e)) 56 data bytes
19:02.11hyperlumicOkay, that's the piece I was missing because information isn't being communicated well.
19:02.11zmeu^C
19:02.11zmeu--- google.com ping statistics ---
19:02.13zmeu5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4073ms
19:02.14hyperlumiczmeu: Stop.
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19:02.16hyperlumic!paste
19:02.16dpkgDo not paste more than 2 lines to this channel.  Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net or https://0bin.net/ | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!  Cannot cut and paste?  Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
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19:02.36zmeuok. anyway. this is "ping" from my server to Google
19:02.51zmeuand I don't receive replay
19:03.08zmeubut when I ping my IPv6 from another server, i have replay
19:03.10zmeureply
19:03.12hyperlumicHalf of google's servers don't respond to pings anyway.
19:03.23greycatthat has never been my experience
19:03.31hyperlumicIt's been mine.
19:03.33zmeudon't responde any server
19:03.36greycattries a "ping google.com" and gets a response
19:03.37zmeuany ipv6
19:03.42hyperlumicgreycat: Good for you.
19:03.53greycatevery time I've tried it in the past, I've always got a response
19:03.57zmeuyes
19:03.58n4dirsame here.
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19:04.06zmeubut my server don't respond to ANY ipv6
19:04.15greycat14:03  zmeu> but when I ping my IPv6 from another server, i have replay
19:04.19greycat14:04  zmeu> but my server don't respond to ANY ipv6
19:04.22zmeuyes
19:04.22greycatWhich is it?
19:04.26zmeu64 bytes from 2a03:9c00:f:19::dead: icmp_seq=212 ttl=56 time=2.13 ms
19:04.30zmeuthis is my ip
19:04.35zmeuof server who i tried to ping google
19:04.39zmeu2a03:9c00:f:19::dead
19:04.47zmeuif you ping it, you have reply
19:05.04zmeuso all is work, but why i cannot ping from my server to ANY ipv6
19:05.17zmeuthis is the weird question
19:05.54hyperlumicCan you curl or wget google.com?
19:06.01zmeunope
19:06.07zmeuonly over ipv4
19:06.08hyperlumicDid you try?
19:06.15hyperlumicBecause that was an awfully quick 'nope.'
19:06.23zmeu# curl -6 google.com
19:06.27zmeudont respond
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19:06.50zmeu*   Trying 2a00:1450:400d:803::200e... * TCP_NODELAY set
19:07.03hyperlumicOutput of 'ip -6 a' and 'ip -6 r' please?
19:07.15zmeusure
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19:07.58hyperlumicgreycat: Also, thinking about it, it's not all that rare that ISPs throttle or drop ICMP echo requests that cross points under load. Maybe mine does and yours doesn't, leading to my experience of pings failing to Google IPs.
19:08.12zmeuhttps://dpaste.de/sNO6
19:09.03hyperlumicWhat. The. Hell. Am I reading.
19:09.08zmeuxD
19:09.15zmeuIt's a BGP connection
19:09.53joepublicmay i just say that "dead" is a very cool ip address
19:09.56hyperlumic<PROTECTED>
19:10.01ikarosuusiI'm sure if deb or ian heard about my problems they would be concerned about the state of audio in debian.
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19:10.35greycatikarosuusi: nobody else is having your issues, so it's not likely to be a "state of the ___" thing
19:10.47ikarosuusiit's not "my issue"
19:11.05ikarosuusiit's not like it's my personal fucking point of view to my post menstrual stress
19:11.15ikarosuusiit's a machine
19:11.16zmeuhyperlumic: so you recommend me to change /126 ?
19:11.24ikarosuusiI'm not the machine.
19:11.37hyperlumiczmeu: I don't have a recommendation, because I don't know how the network is supposed to be configured, but I can just about promise you that THAT is not right.
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19:11.59zmeuhyperlumic: i am running "bird" bgp on it .
19:12.16ikarosuusiI installed debian, xmonad, chromium, alsa and pulseaudio -> the problem, of the machine.
19:12.49zmeuhyperlumic: and "dead" range is assigned by ip -6 addr add dev <interface> <ip6>
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19:13.19zmeuhyperlumic: also the network has one ip6 static with netmask 126
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19:13.55zmeuhyperlumic: my ISP told me to write netmask 126
19:14.00ikarosuusimy issues can be something that are related to, let's say, communication
19:15.05joepublicyour communication issues are, not to put too fine a point on it, not a problem with the "state of ________" mentioned earlier, nor do the positited opinions of people who either have died or are not part of a particular project.
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19:15.42joepublicI am sorry you are having audio issues.  It's frustrating when your system doesn't work as expected.
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19:17.27ikarosuusioh wow yeah sorry
19:17.28ikarosuusigeez
19:17.35ikarosuusiI don't think ian would have given less
19:17.55greycat*plonk*
19:19.57ikarosuusiI feel overly puzzled
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19:35.26jelly!qotd0
19:35.26dpkg<Unrealac> Please tell me some channel free shells? <Wyzard_> Unrealac: If you want shells, go to the beach
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19:37.02rblss-fsfany python / mysql ide that work well with debian someone could recommend?
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19:38.25joepublicI use mysql-workbench but it complains about mariadb every time you open a connection
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19:39.19bitespycharm. not in the debian repos though. updating is a bit annoying.
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19:42.24storrgieis there a way to change the systemd preset for debian so that it doesnt automatically start a service for a newly installed package?
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19:57.36jelly!policy-rc.d
19:57.36dpkg[policy-rc.d] a mechanism to limit what init scripts are run by maintainer scripts.  See http://people.debian.org/~hmh/invokerc.d-policyrc.d-specification.txt and <invoke-rc.d>.  See http://ircbots.debian.net/scripts/policy-rc.d-forbid-dpkg for an example script that disables all daemon starts and stops during package installation -- tailoring it to your needs to only skip certain daemons would be advised.
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19:58.26jellystorrgie, ^ that ought to work even for packages that provide systemd services
19:59.30jellyI'm not aware of a ready-made policy script that prevents starts on initial installation but does stop and start on package upgrades
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20:00.45jellystorrgie, policy-rc.d does not affect starting services after reboot tho, and they will probably still be enabled
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20:58.11Starz0rI have an issue when trying to mount an image from Raspbian, I keep getting Operation not permitted despite running the command on root
20:58.34nkuttler!raspbian
20:58.34dpkgRaspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>.  Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian.  Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support.   http://www.raspbian.org/
20:58.47Starz0rI'm doing the mount command on a debian machine
20:58.59Starz0rnkuttler:
20:59.05nkuttlerwhat kind of image? an iso?
20:59.14Starz0rsuffix is .img
20:59.23nkuttlerpaste command + full output
20:59.28nkuttleruse paste.debian.net
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21:01.43Starz0rnkuttler: https://paste.debian.net/1053010/
21:03.46nkuttlerStarz0r: try mount --verbose
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21:04.10Starz0rnkuttler: I already tried that, it just prints the same thing
21:04.33nkuttlerStarz0r: do you know which filesystem that image uses? i'm not familiar with the offset option
21:05.04Starz0rnkuttler: according to fdisk FAT32 for the boot partition and ext4 for rootfs
21:05.24Starz0rI'm trying to specifically mount the rootfs and then boot
21:05.27nkuttlerugh, so there are two filesystems in that img file...
21:05.33Starz0ryep
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21:05.45nkuttlersounds like a #raspbian question to me tbh
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21:05.54nkuttlerthey should know better about their images
21:06.08nolnplease paste ''ls -l filename.img''
21:06.37nkuttleryeah, might also want to checksum it against the checksum raspbian provides..
21:06.37*** join/#debian BlueByte (~walther@grimbart-cable.blackx.net)
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21:07.50nolnthe contents should not matter, this is just mount failing on a fat32 or whatever
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21:09.04Starz0rnoln: https://paste.rs/jpw
21:09.37*** join/#debian annadane (~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-03-70-24-210-92.dsl.bell.ca)
21:09.44Starz0rdunno if it's worth mentioning, but if I paste this same image file I'm working with to my main Windows machine, I can open it up in 7zip just fine
21:10.11Starz0rI usually do this process on a Linux machine since I need a working GCC compiler that targets ARM64
21:11.27nkuttlerwhat does file 2018-11-13-raspbian-stretch-lite.img say?
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21:11.58zumba_addicthi all. Is anyone familiar with sysrq? Someone told me to use it to do a backtrace of kernel
21:12.09nkuttlerStarz0r: look also into dmesg | tail after mounting
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21:12.34Starz0rnkuttler: https://paste.rs/lTc
21:12.42nkuttlerzumba_addict: do you have a more specific question?
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21:12.48rebrechello
21:14.00zumba_addictnkuttler: I'd like to learn how to debug an outage. I'd like to simulate a hung process on my debian machine using different tools. However, the real issue is on another machine running Jenkins which encounters a kworker process at 100% cpu utilization
21:14.28apollo13removing jenkins usually helps :D
21:14.30zumba_addictso he told me that strace is the wrong tool to use
21:14.31pistachezumba_addict: do you know about crash (crash-utility) ?
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21:14.39zumba_addictno pistache
21:14.45nkuttler!tell zumba_addict about sysrq
21:14.56rebreci need help with an ugly upgrade i have started from a not up to date wheezy to squeeze... i had problems installing new software (python-pip) on my vps. i discovered that i was still in wheezy( yeah... no comments...) i dit apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get dist-upgrade then updated my apt source.list for squeeze. Then did again update/upgrad
21:14.57rebrece/dist upgrade and now i am stuck with error messages telling this :
21:15.06nkuttlerzumba_addict: that being said... are those vms?
21:15.20rebrecdpkg: considering deconfiguration of sysvinit-utils, which would be broken by installation of startpar ...
21:15.20dpkgYou are person #1 to send an unparseable request, rebrec
21:15.20rebrecdpkg: no, sysvinit-utils is essential, will not deconfigure
21:15.20rebrec<PROTECTED>
21:15.28zumba_addictit's an AWS EC2 instance. However, on my test machine, it's bare metal
21:15.33nkuttlerrebrec: dpkg is a bot
21:15.35pistacheit can help you inspect the current state of the kernel (it's based on gdb, but it's not a kernel debugger)
21:15.42pistache^ zumba_addict
21:15.43nkuttleroh, never mind...
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21:15.56rebrecnkuttler it was just copy/paste, not a msg to dpkg lol
21:15.57zumba_addictoh pistache, that would be cool
21:16.06nkuttlerrebrec: paste.debian.net
21:16.15rebrecha... okay
21:16.25zumba_addictwhich tools can I use and do you have any article, doc, or howto I can read?
21:16.51nkuttlerrebrec: full command and output please
21:16.53pistachezumba_addict: it's available in the crash package. iirc you will see more useful results with debugging symbols installed and by booting with 'nokaslr'
21:16.54rebrecthought 2 lines of copy paste would be allowed... sorry ... here is the link http://paste.debian.net/1053011/
21:16.55zumba_addictwe just want to know the real culprit on our Jenkins outage that has been happening for 4 months now
21:17.17zumba_addictpistache: got it
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21:17.44pistachezumba_addict: if you want to go further, you might want to try setting up KGDB (but it requires virtualizing the debugged system, or running it on a machine with a serial port and debugging on another machineb)
21:17.45zumba_addictis this crash package not distro specific?
21:18.12zumba_addictpistache: impossible to connect via serial port since it's in AWS premise
21:18.24pistachewhat do you mean ? it's packaged in Debian
21:18.27jellydpkg, forget sysvinit-utils
21:18.28dpkgjelly: i forgot sysvinit-utils
21:18.30zumba_addictgot it
21:18.31pistacheah, I don't know about using KGDB in AWS
21:19.00zumba_addictI guess, kgdb is the same as gdb but in gui
21:19.06pistachenope
21:19.10zumba_addictoh ok
21:19.12pistacheit's gdb but the kernel
21:19.18zumba_addictgot it, cool
21:19.28pistacheI think you can understand that you cannot debug a kernel from a process running in the same kernel ?
21:19.35zumba_addictso with kgbd, it will help pinpoint why we're getting a stuck process?
21:19.41pistachebecause of that, you need some additional infrastructure to debug in kernel
21:19.51zumba_addictoh
21:19.53pistachecrash could be enough for that
21:20.01pistachekgdb will allow you to setup breakpoints
21:20.06zumba_addictgot it
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21:20.13rebrecnkuttler http://paste.debian.net/1053012/
21:20.26zumba_addictand with kgdb, it requires a kernel compile or just an option during reboot?
21:20.50pistacheit requires a kernel compiled with specific non-default options, and another machine
21:21.08pistacheas well as a way to connect to the debugged kernel, which is usually a serial port
21:21.46zumba_addictgot it
21:21.54rebrecnkuttler any chances for me to fix this with your help ?
21:21.57*** join/#debian sudhackar_ (~sudhackar@1.23.196.250)
21:21.59pistacheit also requires a recent gdb, as you will need some scripts to load the linux debugging symbols
21:21.59zumba_addictso looks like kgdb is impossible
21:22.10pistacheyeah in AWS it looks hard
21:22.24pistachecrash will allow you to inspect all of the kernel's state
21:22.25rebreci am ok to break things (remove apache/php and so on, if i can keep my base os, i would be glad)
21:22.40zumba_addictwe've been battling this jenkins outage for more than 4 months now :( and we still couldn't figure out the issue. We think it's nfs
21:22.52*** join/#debian polman (~ananevtem@2.95.141.3)
21:22.59pistachehowever, crash won't allow you to setup breakpoints
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21:23.41zumba_addictk
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21:25.02pistachezumba_addict: do you have a stack trace to show for your jenkins outage ?
21:25.18zumba_addictdid you mean strace?
21:25.23nkuttlerrebrec: i would start by removing the offending apache and libdbi packages, your main problem seems to be startpar though
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21:25.30nkuttlerrebrec: are you not using systemd?
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21:25.45pistachezumba_addict: no, stack trace of hung processes (in dmesg)
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21:26.05zumba_addictpistache: like any jenkins log message?
21:26.12nkuttlerrebrec: what happens when you dpkg -i the startpar package directly?
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21:26.54pistachezumba_addict: ah, I may have misunderstood some previous messages
21:27.05pistacheyour only symptoms are jenkins hanging ? no messages in dmesg ?
21:27.46rebrecnkuttler still in wheezy  so the answer is no i guess. i tried apt-get remove startpar but i get " Unable to locate package starpa". I also tried dpkg -l startpar which gives me : "in  startpar                <none>           amd64            (no description available)"
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21:27.49zumba_addictthere could be some important messages there but my teammates didn't know how to debug. The affected jenkins service got terminated the other day. I was really pissed off :(
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21:28.20nkuttlerrebrec: well it's startpar
21:28.22jellyrebrec, are you sure you started with a wheezy installation?
21:28.41jellyrebrec, and that you're actually doing wheezy->jessie?
21:29.02pistachezumba_addict: wew, nice. I can understand you were pissed off.
21:29.18rebrecjelly i was using since more than 800 days of uptime a vps ... on wheezy with almost no updates done .... :(
21:29.22pistacheanyway, you will need some more info to debug, and to find a way to reproduce it
21:29.25rebrecjelly: yes !
21:29.29zumba_addictpistache: we are thinking that NFS is the culprit. However, once I stop the jenkins service, the NFS mount becomes accessible again without even remounting it
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21:30.11zumba_addictthe only thing I remember is that kworker was at 100% cpu util in one of the 4 cores for hours
21:30.29jellyrebrec, if you can revert to previous state (from a snapshot or backup), first do an upgrade of wheezy to latest wheezy.  Then read jessie release notes and try to follow the procedure.
21:30.31rebrecnkuttler http://paste.debian.net/1053014/ <== dpkg -i startpar
21:30.47rebrecjelly i don't have access to snapshots
21:31.05pistachezumba_addict: and do you have some jenkins error logs ?
21:31.13rebrecjelly i did a full update/upgrade to latest packages version of wheezy before switching my source.list to squeeze
21:31.22jellyrebrec, jessie dammit
21:31.53jellysqueeze was debian 6, you're going from 7 to 8
21:31.57jellyapparently
21:32.13rebrecjelly in fact i realized (lately) that my vps provider (ovh) was providing me a debian mirror of its own which is (from what i can read on forums) not up to date at all with debian officials mirros...
21:32.34zumba_addictpistache: check this out during the outage - https://i.imgur.com/ALdvzOh.png
21:32.36rebreci was in wheezy
21:32.46rebrecand try to go to squeeze
21:32.51zumba_addictpistache: the error logs are gone too :(
21:32.53nkuttlerrebrec: keep in mind that upgrading debian might not be possible if you're on some ancient kernel
21:32.54jellyrebrec, NOT SQUEEZE
21:33.17rebrecumm sorry
21:33.28rebreci am tired i say bullshit... i mean jessie sorry
21:33.39rebrecfrom wheezy to jessie (sorry again)
21:33.41jellybut anyway.
21:33.43hyperlumicrebrec: His all-caps warning was actually to protect you.
21:33.44jellylibdbi-perl depends on perl (>= 5.20.0-4); however:
21:33.44jelly<PROTECTED>
21:33.44jelly<PROTECTED>
21:34.16jellyrebrec, your system was at least in some important ways still debian 6 (squeeze)
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21:35.00jellyyou did not, in fact do a full upgrade of wheezy, because you'd have wheezy's perl 5.14 in place
21:35.20greycatYup, you've gotta finish the upgrade to wheezy before you can start upgrading to jessie.
21:35.26jellywhat you managed to do is skip a release which is explicitely unsupported
21:35.31pistachezumba_addict: yup, kworker stuck. however that's still not a lot of info
21:35.35rebrecnkuttler anyway i know i am in an almost dead end. but since i am not a debian expert i said myself : "this is the good time to learn more about some advanced apt/dpkg commands" so i went there to discover with your help (maybe) some commands to say to apt "hey stop trying to install your stuff and just remove that package or install this one" (so
21:35.35rebreci can get some upgrade process maybe even with some very basic packages installed
21:35.46zumba_addictyup, not enough :(
21:35.52jellyrebrec, which kernel is running there?
21:36.08zumba_addictI wish I was online during the other outage(not the outage I was on)
21:36.11rebrecLinux ks3281193.kimsufi.com 3.2.13-grsec-xxxx-grs-ipv6-64 #1 SMP Thu Mar 29 09:48:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux
21:36.22jellyblinks
21:36.27rebreclol
21:36.37zumba_addictthat outage was from Nov 17 pistache. We had another outage on Nov 21
21:36.54jellyokay, that kernel might or might not be enough for jessie userspace
21:37.10jellyit _probably_ won't be good enough for systemd as init
21:37.16zumba_addictI was hoping they run strace to the running process but not sure if that will help
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21:38.22rebrecwell... i am here to learn how to fix things... if you guys/girls are telling me that from even you experts wouldn't have no way to fix this, just tell me and i won't bother you and will have to do a full reinstall (but my goal here is to learn about apt/dpkg / packages dependancies and how to fix when things gets stuck, the time spend is not a pro
21:38.22rebrecblem... it's jsut a personnel server, not a production one
21:38.26jellyrebrec, how important is this installation to you?  Can you save data and reinstall?
21:39.28jellyit's going to be problematic fixing it in this state over irc, because of several wrong steps taken so far
21:39.46rebrecjelly i guess my answer is in my last message : not important (at least i now how to start again from scratch, but i would really have loved to use this current problem to learn more about how it could be fixed (or tried to fix)
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21:40.46nkuttlerrebrec: you should consider getting a new vm, with a more recent kernel, and migrate the data there. or switch to a better hoster
21:40.50jellyif it were me I'd probably go with greycat's idea, get rid of jessie repos and put in wheezy ones, remove packages that got upgraded to jessie (debian 8), and try doing a release to wheezy (7) first
21:41.08rebrecjelly but i guess the time you spend answering dumb questions like mine can be better used so if you don't have time to spend teaching me / explaining me stuff that have 80% chances not to work, i won't complain, don't worry
21:41.38jellythat probability is about right ;-)
21:41.56rebrecnkuttler i can start from scratch, that's not a real problem, most of my configuration is done through ansible and i don't have much services running, i am just currious
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21:42.04rebrecjelly :)
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21:42.38zumba_addictpistache: this person is using 2 machines to debug kernel usaing kgdb. Are 2 machines really required? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67cxIXLCfUk
21:42.57jellyit's an interesting exercise but you'll end up with a mostly working system with unknown leftover cruft from debian 6 and still need to migrate to a clean setup
21:42.59rebrecsorry greycat i didn't read your message
21:43.13rebrecthanks for this advice and for jelly to mention it
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21:44.45rebrecjelly i will definately reinstall this all over after fixing it (if that ever work) i don't want some system with a lot of packages in a weird state, but i would feel really happy to know that i have been able (in fact with a lot of external help) to get to an almost stable system again before 'decide' to reinstall all :D
21:45.22jellyif it's possible ask the provider to restore the VM to state from yesterday, then do a normal debian 6 -> debian 7 release upgrade
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21:46.26rebrecjelly it's not possible... i said it's a vps to just say it's a server on the web... in fact it is a dedicated server so no snapshot... sorry to not give the right information at first
21:46.40rebrecand again, that wouldn't be a way to solve this "exercice"
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21:46.58pistachezumba_addict: either 2 machines, or a virtual machine
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21:47.06jellyit would be a different, more gentle exercise
21:47.45agiohow do we tell which version of python we have installed?
21:47.49pistacheI'm currently using KGDB with a single machine (my laptop), using qemu to run the debugged kernel
21:48.03jellyrebrec, do you have complete output of these commands saved perhaps?
21:48.06*** join/#debian st-gourichon-fid (~Stephane@82.64.72.120)
21:48.37agionvm, its python --version
21:48.56*** join/#debian Toadisattva (~Toadisatt@gateway/tor-sasl/toadisattva)
21:49.05jellyagio, but also python3 --version
21:49.14pistacheagio: this will only tell you the Python 2 version
21:50.02agiojelly: pistache copy that
21:51.47zumba_addictk
21:52.10zumba_addictpistache: what will I capture using that technique?
21:54.21rebrecjelly not at all :/
21:55.27pistachezumba_addict: which technique ? KGDB+qemu or crash ?
21:55.35jellyrebrec, does "apt-get update" work right now?
21:55.43zumba_addictkgdb?
21:55.45zumba_addictoops
21:55.47zumba_addictthe kgdb
21:57.11rebrecjelly :  http://paste.debian.net/1053015/
21:57.17pistachezumba_addict: using kgdb, you'd be able to set up breakpoints/watchpoints
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21:57.42rebrecjelly is there a way to tell apt to remove apache2 and all packages which depend on it whatever the dependancies states are in ?
21:57.47zumba_addictgot it. What is the name of the crash package>
21:57.51pistachecrash
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21:58.16greycatrebrec: at some point you bust out dpkg, and you start doing dpkg --purge --force-depends
21:58.34pistachezumba_addict: I think you should start by usual debugging (Jenkins logs, dmesg, and stats retrieved from userland)
21:58.45zumba_addictk
21:58.57rebrecthanks greycat
21:58.59pistacheif a kernel task is hung, dmesg should print out a relevant stack trace
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21:59.32pistacheif it doesn't, crash can be used to inspect the stack of any kernel thread
21:59.33zumba_addicti will check if the jenkins log I have will have something. I should have copied /var/log/messages as well
21:59.41pistacheyes
22:00.06jellyrebrec, pastebin the output of: dpkg -l|grep -v '^.n '
22:00.13zumba_addictI also read from a jenkins article to run kill -3
22:00.14jellyrebrec, do you care about this "omd-1.20" thing?
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22:00.30pistacheyou will probably want to have a look at /proc/vmstat as well
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22:01.02rebrecjelly not at all ! i tried th is : http://paste.debian.net/1053016/
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22:01.44rblss-fsfanyone here decent with mariadb?
22:02.14rblss-fsfI'm struggling trying to create a user (maybe just go root) to be able to create databases from the python connector
22:02.19King_DuckZhi I'm trying to mount a f2fs filesystem from the debian cd in rescue mode but I get a no such device error, does the boot cd not know about f2fs maybe?
22:02.22pistachezumba_addict: if your workload is write-intensive (Jenkins may very well be, but I'm not sure), you may have a writeback related problem
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22:02.45zumba_addictyes, our jenkins is extremely busy
22:03.02zumba_addictso the NFS could be the issue?
22:03.06King_DuckZis there some modprobe command? I tried modprobe f2fs but it didn't work
22:03.10pistacheyou may want to adjust parameters in /proc/sys/vm
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22:03.25pistachezumba_addict: I'd suspect it yes, as your top screenshot shows 75% iowait
22:03.29zumba_addictwho is /proc/sys/vm for?
22:03.42zumba_addictlet me look at my screenshot again
22:04.10zumba_addictwhere is iowait 75%?
22:04.21zumba_addictis it the 74.6?
22:04.23pistache75 wa
22:04.30pistachein the %Cpu(s) line
22:04.40zumba_addictgot it
22:04.49zumba_addictand wa is cpu waiting?
22:04.56jellyrebrec, you'll probably want to short-circuit that /etc/init.d/omd-1.20 script to make the package uninstall move past that point.  Edit it and insert this as second line of the script: exit 0
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22:06.02pistachezumba_addict: iowait is time where the CPU is doing "nothing", as it is waiting on I/O requests
22:06.24zumba_addictgotcha. So there is a hung process which I need to find out
22:06.50jellyKing_DuckZ, debian installer or debian live cd?  installer has most optional modules stashed away in separate "udeb" packages that need to be "installed" within the installer to make them available
22:06.53rebrecjelly : thanks ! now it seems i can upgrade
22:07.02jellyrebrec, don't upgrade things.
22:07.05rebrec(for now)
22:07.14rebrecooops
22:07.24rebrecumm no i mean for now i update
22:07.27rebrecthen upgrade, right ?
22:07.33King_DuckZjelly: eh? you mean I can do apt-get from there? o.o
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22:08.08pistachezumba_addict: however, note that kworker is also using 25% of "sys" time, which is time spent executing code in the kernel
22:08.10jellyrebrec, first verify "apt-get update" works at all.  If it works, comment out jessie lines from /etc/apt/sources.list, and add back wheezy lines.  Do not skip releases.
22:08.43jelly!wheezy sources.list
22:08.43dpkgA suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 7 "Wheezy" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main" "deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main".  Be sure to run «aptitude update» after editing sources.list.  Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <wheezy/updates> <wheezy-updates> <mirrors> <apt-spy> and "man sources.list".
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22:08.52King_DuckZjelly: apt-get not found, it says
22:09.35jellyKing_DuckZ, I don't remember what the command is.  dpkg?
22:09.47rebrecjelly i am currently using wheezy source.list. since your "hack" on the omd package init script, i managed to remove it and to do full apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
22:10.02King_DuckZnope, there's a apt-install but I don't know how to use it
22:10.03jellyKing_DuckZ, if you need to do rescue-y things, there are better options than booting a d-i
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22:10.32pistachezumba_addict: also you want to be sure to inspect that the underlying network is behaving as expected
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22:10.42King_DuckZjelly: not really rescuing, I'm installing gentoo and debian seems to be the only distro that boots on this hardware, so I'm installing from there
22:10.49jellyrebrec, are you at least saving the output this time
22:10.51rebrecjelly i have 73 packages not upgraded. should i upgrade them before switching to jessie ?
22:11.16rebrecjelly my term doesn't have enough buffer. what can i use ? script maybe ?
22:11.16pistacheI don't know how that does for AWS (make sure that you're not hitting some throttling thing)
22:11.26jellyrebrec, yes, script is fine
22:11.41bitesKing_DuckZ: try a live image. using the installer is restrictive, as you have already noticed.
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22:13.46King_DuckZbites: like this? https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-dvd/ can I get just the first iso?
22:14.04rebrecjelly http://paste.debian.net/1053018/ upgrade doesn't work
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22:14.10jellyrebrec, if an "apt-get upgrade" completes successfully without errors by some miraculous happenstance, do an "apt-get install linux-image-amd64" after that
22:14.11hyperlumicKing_DuckZ: No. https://www.debian.org/CD/live/
22:15.10jellyrebrec, okay.  pastebin "apt-cache policy" and "apt-cache policy mount libblkid1 libuuid1"
22:15.49bitesKing_DuckZ: do you need a new kernel? is that why you go for the testing images? if so, there are live testing images here: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/
22:15.52*** join/#debian cdown_ (~cdown@199.201.66.0)
22:16.29jelly(basically I'm asking you to)
22:16.36jelly!basic apt troubleshooting
22:16.36dpkgIn order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy".  Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information.  Also ask me about <localized errors>.
22:16.43King_DuckZbites: whatever boots on my hardware, I think 4.15 is the minimum required but then the rescue cd boots with 4.9 so maybe debian backported the patches from 4.15
22:16.52rebrecjelly http://paste.debian.net/1053019/
22:17.40jellyah.  Now you want to do some dowgrading I guess.
22:17.43zumba_addictjust got back
22:18.03zumba_addictpistache: i'll check the network too
22:18.07bitesKing_DuckZ: oh, then i would try the stable live images first. they are more likely to work. https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
22:18.34King_DuckZbites: ok
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22:18.58jellyrebrec, you are missing the main repo deb line.
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22:19.44jellyrebrec, deb http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
22:20.18jellyrebrec, do just an "apt-get update" after that, followed by "apt-get -s upgrade"
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22:21.53rebrecjelly : i do it now thanks, may i ask how you have guessed i was missing the wheezy main repo and had only wheezy-updates  please ?
22:22.32rebrecthe simulation doesn't complain. should i upgrade now ?
22:22.41jellyrebrec, that's in "apt-cache policy" output
22:23.25jellyrebrec, okay.  now you should go back and read wheezy release notes :-D
22:23.32rebrechaha
22:23.46rebrecdo you think i will read them ?
22:23.49jellydpkg, squeeze->wheezy
22:23.49dpkgRead chapter 4 ("Upgrades from Debian 6.0") of the <release notes>.  In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "squeeze" to "wheezy" (noting that <wheezy-backports> have changed on the mirrors).  apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade.  See also <squeeze->wheezy failures>.
22:23.50rebrec:)
22:24.00jellyI'm not kidding.
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22:24.04rebrecha :(
22:24.15jelly!wheezy release notes
22:24.15dpkgRelease notes for Debian 7 "Wheezy" are at http://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/releasenotes .  See also <squeeze->wheezy>, <install guide wheezy>.
22:25.15rebrec(that sucks to read releases notes for a version that i won't keep)
22:25.40jellyYou'll want to read jessie release notes before going 7 -> 8, too
22:26.26jellyand ideally you want to check and fix all the services you actually want to be running, after each release upgrade
22:26.40rebrecokay
22:27.20jellyif you don't want to run any services, there's little point in doing a release upgrade or keeping the machine powered on
22:27.36rebrecappart from this, would you have a good recommendation of a sort of tutorial on how apt / dpkg policy and so on works (appart from debian's official documentation i guess)?
22:28.16jellymaybe
22:28.17jelly!debian handbook
22:28.17dpkgThe Debian Administrator's Handbook is at http://debian-handbook.info/ and can be browsed, bought and downloaded.  From Debian 7 "Wheezy" onwards, it can also be installed from the debian-handbook package.  Also ask me about <books> <docs>.  PDF at https://debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf
22:28.32rebrecthank you
22:28.37rebrecdpkg is amazing (the bot)
22:28.37dpkgrebrec: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
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22:30.03jellythe current kernel will be good enough for wheezy, but once you get the whole machine to wheezy you'll want to install and boot into wheezy distro kernel which is a bit newer.
22:31.24jellyand doing wheezy->jessie will try to install systemd which you might not want to bother with for a temporary system
22:31.31jelly!jessie sysvinit
22:31.31dpkgTo use an init system other than systemd in jessie, install the systemd-shim package (for logind) and remove the systemd-sysv package: aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-.  To stick with sysvinit for wheezy->jessie upgrades, follow the pinning advice in the release notes: http://deb.li/30Kby - See also <upstart> and <openrc>
22:31.55jellysee show "advice" is "in the release notes"
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22:32.06jellys/show/how/
22:33.07rebrecok thanks
22:33.19jellythere's useful info in there, like "your apache will break going from 2.2 to 2.4 (from wheezy to jessie), if you want your web to work you'll have to take care of that"
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22:35.00jelly(of course you could also do apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade blindly and hope the system comes back aftter a reboot, it might, it might not)
22:35.59jellyand if you don't have access to console at that point things might get interesting
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22:36.11joepublicI think dist-upgrade covers everything that upgrade would.
22:36.31jellyit does not do it in the same order
22:36.54joepublicpoint taken.
22:37.24jellyrelease notes document the optimal way to do things
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22:38.05stripehi, problems installing stretch on a machine with rx580 amd graphics. installs no problem but freezes on reboot so i cannot install the amd firmware, cant even drop to a tty any ideas? thanks
22:38.38rebrec<PROTECTED>
22:39.17jellysome release notes say to do an "upgrade" first.  Sometimes they don't.  Sometimes they say to upgrade some packages like a kernel manually and reboot before continuing.  Sometimes they say to use "apt-get", sometimes "aptitude".
22:39.54rebrecwhy switch from apt-get to aptitude ? isn't aptitude the "future" of apt ?
22:40.19jellysometimes one works better than the other in specific situations
22:40.56jelly(aptitude and apt have slightly different dependency resolving algorithms)
22:40.58joepublicsometimes apt and apt-get say a dependency is not satisfiable when it looks like it should be, and aptitude will have a different opinion.
22:42.08rebrecisn't this a consistency problem ? i mean isn't aptitude supposed to be a replacement of apt ?
22:42.19jellyit's not
22:42.25rebrecha
22:42.31rebrecnevermind
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22:42.57joepublicif you like, you can download aptitude and then not use anything else.
22:43.26jellyand if you use aptitude where release notes state to use apt-get and get into problems, we get to laugh
22:43.49joepublicbut you can keep both pieces of the future.
22:43.58rebrecmaybe i will come back here one day with such a problem ;) (hope you don't remember my nickname this day huh)
22:44.26Starz0rso is there anything I can do with this mounting issue
22:44.37jellythis channel has public, indexed logs ;-)
22:44.45Starz0rI wish mount would give me more info running in verbose mode, but it doesn't
22:44.48rebrecmy bad
22:45.02rebreci will have to change my nick then lol
22:45.27at0mStarz0r: maybe explain what you're trying to mount and what error you're seeing
22:45.52at0mStarz0r: or, pastebin the mount command and the error following
22:46.10Starz0rit's in the scrollback, the general gist is that debian refuses to mount this image file
22:46.11bitesstripe: you can try booting a live system, chroot into your installation, install a newer kernel and the drivers that you need. probably not debian stable live if you have hardware compatibility issues.
22:46.37Starz0rat0m: https://paste.debian.net/1053010/
22:46.50jellyStarz0r, if you have a partitioned image, you can use "kpartx" to present devices for each separate partition
22:47.12jellythis may be easier than figuring out offsets manually
22:47.31at0mStarz0r: found it near 2hrs in backlog
22:48.28Starz0rjelly: I'll try kpartx
22:48.30jellyStarz0r, does "fdisk -l /path/to/2018-11-13-raspbian-stretch-lite.img" show some sort of valid partition table on it?
22:48.39Starz0rthe hard part isn't figuring out offsets, I already know the math for it
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22:48.52Starz0rjelly: yes
22:49.05zumba_addictpistache: look what I found, looks awesome and looks like it will help me with troubleshooting - https://bencane.com/2012/08/06/troubleshooting-high-io-wait-in-linux/
22:49.07rebrecwouldn't binwalk do the job ?
22:49.13King_DuckZI'm in the live now, but it doesn't have lvm? how can I install it? apt-get lvm didn't work
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22:50.06Starz0rjelly: the results of using kpartx https://paste.rs/R9L
22:50.06bitestry lvm2, it's much better than lvm :P
22:50.09King_DuckZI tried lvm2 and it didn't work either
22:50.16King_DuckZthat ?
22:50.19King_DuckZthat ^
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22:50.39bitesdidn't work in what way? did you run apt update first?
22:50.40King_DuckZah maybe I need to apt-update first?
22:51.03King_DuckZyes now it works :)
22:51.06jellyStarz0r, which debian release is this, if you're using some sort of custom kernel it needs device-mapper support
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22:51.27bitesi feel obsolete.
22:51.58Starz0rjelly: I'm using stretch, but this has never been a problem before
22:52.12jellyStarz0r, what does "uname -a" say?
22:52.55pistachezumba_addict: yep, it is good advice
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22:53.02zumba_addictyup
22:53.24stripebites, thanks, even the live stretch images will not boot. and tried a rescue shell from the network installer, but no dns resolution for sources/repos, will try chroot from a live cd, thanks :)
22:53.30jellyStarz0r, maybe this stretch is running inside a container or chroot with reduced privileges?
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22:53.42Starz0rjelly: i'm already root user
22:53.47Starz0rthere should be no reduced privileges
22:53.55jellyStarz0r, what does "uname -a" say
22:54.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1399] by debhelper
22:54.23Starz0rLinux desktop-3 4.17.0-3-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.17.17-1 (2018-08-18) i686 GNU/Linux
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22:54.48jellythat's a very old buster kernel
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22:55.47jellyStarz0r, are you sure you're on stretch?  What does "modprobe dm_mod" say?
22:56.01Starz0rjelly: I'm not actually on stretch apparently
22:56.05jellysorry, "modinfo dm_mod"
22:56.09Starz0rneofetch reports this as buster
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22:57.13Starz0rI figured it out
22:57.21Starz0rext4 drivers aren't responding on this system
22:57.35Starz0rso it can't mount it
22:57.50jellyit's possible you upgraded kernels at some point in the past and did not reboot afterwards
22:58.03Starz0rI don't upgrade on this machine
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22:58.19Starz0rIt's a really old eMachine I installed debian on because I couldn't get alpine to install
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23:00.29jelly"modinfo dm_mod" would prove or disprove that, or point to other reasons why some modules fail to work
23:01.29*** join/#debian wilkc_ (~wilkc@2601:782:580:378d:95e4:c41e:6fec:3eb5)
23:01.30jellythe most common reason here is "forgot to reboot after kernel patches so existing contents of /lib/modules/... do not match booted kernel"
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23:02.37jellyand both ext4 and d-m not working point in that direction
23:02.58Starz0rjelly: command isn't even found here
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23:03.22jelly/sbin/modinfo in case your PATH is missing /sbin
23:04.44Starz0rjelly: https://paste.rs/1XF
23:06.28jellyStarz0r, that seems to at least match the kernel ABI 4.17.0-3-686-pae, is dm_mod loaded? (lsmod |grep dm)  Does "modprobe dm_mod" work, if it's not?
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23:08.12Starz0rjelly: https://paste.rs/3XJ
23:08.28jellyas root
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23:09.37Starz0rjelly: nothing happens
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23:10.13jellyverify lsmod output, see if it loaded.  If it did not, look at the last couple lines of dmesg for a reason
23:10.45jellyif there's complaining of symbols, that means the modules on disk do not match the running kernel.  Reboot to fix.
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23:12.36jellyif it's loaded now, kpartx might work
23:12.44jhutchinsiirc modprobe returns nothing on success because it is typically run by init.
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23:13.29jellybut if you've already figured out ext4 is making a fuss see if _that_ module is loaded and perhaps cannot be loaded for some reason
23:14.38Starz0rjelly: I've already restart as of now and am about to test
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23:33.08Starz0rjelly: yeah, everything seems to mount and be working now
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23:34.39jellyso that system did in fact have a kernel package upgrade at some point in the past
23:35.39jellyanyway, if you have futher issues,
23:35.41jelly!debian-next
23:35.42dpkg#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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23:45.02SPFwhen I boot, I don't have any output on tty. I tried setting grub2 to text mode and tons of different settings, but still no output to screen.
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