| 00:00.24 | aphorise | InvisibleRasta try it - we cant know what you want ;-) there's livecd as well: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
| 00:00.59 | annadane | oh. turns out when i delete the current vm then the file in /var/lib/libvirt/images goes away. so when you delete a vm you *do also* lose whatever snapshots you had |
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| 00:02.23 | aphorise | annadane what snapshots / context out of interest? are you working with qemu? |
| 00:02.36 | annadane | well, virt-manager |
| 00:02.59 | aphorise | so what virt-manager does some sort of snaptshots of processes? |
| 00:03.35 | InvisibleRasta | thankyou |
| 00:03.37 | annadane | yes |
| 00:04.12 | aphorise | annadane but are you looking for a drive / file system type snapshot? |
| 00:05.17 | annadane | just a snapshot of the current state of the vm |
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| 01:15.21 | coptroll | Hi, Debian 9.6 (standard gnome packages) with a bluetooth audio problem here. The computer *is* connected to the device according to bluetooth settings, but in the sound settings the only output option I am given is laptop speakers. |
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| 01:19.15 | somiaj | cat /asound/cards (do you see the bluetooth card there?) |
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| 02:18.12 | jgkamat | never mind, I found something on the ML |
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| 02:20.01 | Sveta | pikudoz yes, a bit calm and productive so far :) |
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| 02:46.01 | InvisibleRasta | hey guys, how do i do a minimum install of gnome |
| 02:46.08 | InvisibleRasta | i dont want all the bloat apps |
| 02:46.40 | InvisibleRasta | i jsut need it because i need my FN keys to work with pantheon and i am not suer which gnome package provides that |
| 02:46.54 | InvisibleRasta | so i guess i can isntall the minimal gnome and see if i get them working |
| 02:47.00 | InvisibleRasta | unless you know of another way |
| 02:47.27 | epicmetal | InvisibleRasta: gnome-core |
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| 02:47.40 | themill | doubts gnome has much to do with function keys |
| 02:47.54 | epicmetal | InvisibleRasta: maybe APT::Install-Recommends "false"; in your APT config |
| 02:48.41 | InvisibleRasta | epicmetal, sorry i didnt understand |
| 02:49.04 | InvisibleRasta | well i am sure that there is a gnome package that gets the f keys to work... it was working earlier before i removed gnome |
| 02:49.12 | epicmetal | InvisibleRasta: what do you mena |
| 02:49.17 | InvisibleRasta | the backlight fn key works.. but the volume doesnt |
| 02:49.32 | InvisibleRasta | i didnt understand maybe APT::Install-Recommends "false"; in your APT config |
| 02:50.00 | themill | ,i gnome-settings-daemon |
| 02:50.01 | judd | Package gnome-settings-daemon (gnome, optional) in stretch/amd64: daemon handling the GNOME session settings. Version: 3.22.2-2+deb9u2; Size: 1092.9k; Installed: 7059k |
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| 02:50.14 | themill | (it's still not doing anything other than changing keybindings) |
| 02:50.26 | epicmetal | InvisibleRasta: in /etc/apt/apt.conf |
| 02:50.40 | themill | !multimedia keys |
| 02:50.40 | dpkg | Multimedia keys are the special keyboard keys for doing such things as changing the volume or launching your web browser. Check to see if these keys generate a scan code using xev and set the keyboard layout correctly or assign them to a shortcut with xmodmap, systemsettings, gnome-control-panel etc. See also <pbbuttons>, <tpb>. See http://tuxmobil.org/Mobile-Guide.db/mobile-guide-p2c1s8-ext-keys.html |
| 02:50.48 | InvisibleRasta | themill, i have the daemon installed |
| 02:51.02 | InvisibleRasta | but only fn uo down work, fn left right no |
| 02:51.17 | InvisibleRasta | its weird but with gnome intalled, even thoi never used it, it was working |
| 02:51.29 | themill | installed, running and configured are different things |
| 02:51.55 | themill | it may well also do nothing if you're not actually running gnome |
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| 02:52.30 | InvisibleRasta | themill, with gnome installed thefn keys were working on pantheon. as soon as i removed gnome, just FN left right stopped working |
| 02:52.52 | themill | you keep saying that |
| 02:53.55 | InvisibleRasta | themill, any suggestion on which gnome package it could be? |
| 02:54.31 | InvisibleRasta | i have gnome-settings-daemon |
| 02:54.33 | themill | I've already answered that... you keep telling me about the symptoms. |
| 02:55.18 | themill | (a) installing it is unlikely enough, it would need to be running and configured too (b) it might not do anything when not run within gnome (c) you don't need this package in any case. |
| 02:56.39 | InvisibleRasta | i wonder waht package i need then, does gnome pull any of the packages you told me when u posted !multimedia keys |
| 02:56.58 | themill | no package is needed for this, only configuration |
| 02:57.26 | InvisibleRasta | but how come without configuration, with gnome installed it was working out of the box? |
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| 02:57.43 | themill | I've run out of ways to explain this. |
| 02:58.45 | InvisibleRasta | can u elaborate please, i didnt understand how it is not configured with gnome instaleed |
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| 02:59.48 | mason | InvisibleRasta: What's Pantheon? |
| 02:59.59 | InvisibleRasta | a desktop environment |
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| 03:01.03 | mason | Hm. So, when you hit keys on the keyboard, they send stuff to X. If you want to see what they send, run xev, have the xev window in front, and hit keys, either together or in combinations. What software listens to them or cares about them is another issue. |
| 03:01.10 | somiaj | MultiMedia keys aren't any different than other keys, they produce some key code which translates into a string such as XF86AudioLowerVolume, XF86AudioRaiseVolume, etc. The desktop/window manager may or may not have preconfigured key bindings for these keys. |
| 03:01.26 | somiaj | depending on which desktop/window manager you use, you have to look into key binding options to see what they are bound too (if anything) |
| 03:01.52 | mason | InvisibleRasta: As somiaj is saying, it's up to the app to do something. I run Openbox here, and I have a little script that the volume keys (for instance) drive, because I told Openbox to do something when it sees one of them. |
| 03:01.52 | somiaj | If your window manager/desktop has them bound, the application won't recieve the key event. |
| 03:02.07 | mason | That too. |
| 03:02.13 | somiaj | so it also depends on if you want your desktop or app to have access to the keys. |
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| 03:04.01 | mason | Anyway, movietime... o/ |
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| 03:38.35 | InvisibleRasta | nice i solved |
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| 03:40.30 | InvisibleRasta | think something broke tho... this is when i run apt-update http://dpaste.com/3XH78RQ |
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| 03:43.07 | somiaj | do you have something wrong with your file system so it can't get the lock directory? What is the output of 'ls -ld /var/lib/apt/lists' |
| 03:43.47 | InvisibleRasta | drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 11104 Nov 30 04:42 /var/lib/apt/lists/ |
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| 03:45.24 | somiaj | ls -l /var/lib/apt/lists/lock |
| 03:45.37 | somiaj | well the error says it can't access that file and the resource is temporarly unavilable. Unsure why though. |
| 03:45.43 | InvisibleRasta | -rw-r----- 1 root root 0 Nov 30 01:12 /var/lib/apt/lists/lock |
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| 03:46.49 | somiaj | do you have another instance of apt/aptitude/etc running? |
| 03:46.58 | InvisibleRasta | no |
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| 03:47.32 | somiaj | well there are answers that say you can remove the lock file, https://askubuntu.com/questions/15433/unable-to-lock-the-administration-directory-var-lib-dpkg-is-another-process/102084#102084, but warnings to ensure you are doing this due to a stale lock file as opposed to just another app running |
| 03:49.22 | InvisibleRasta | somiaj, ill give it a look ty |
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| 04:09.38 | nonenick | my thunderbird/icedove won't send or receive emails. When trying to receive the error is "Could not connect to mail server imap.gmail.com; the connection was refused." Safe mode hasn't worked, nor has purge then install. Someone suggested ns or openssl s_client, but didn't explain further |
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| 04:14.47 | somiaj | sounds like you don't have imap setup at gmail.com correctly or your don't have the correct username/password. |
| 04:15.39 | somiaj | google seems to suggest you now need to connect via imap ssl, so ensure you have those options configured |
| 04:19.55 | mns | is there a way to test memory from rescue mode of the installer ? |
| 04:20.28 | nonenick | my email accounts work fine from mobile/another desktop thunderbird |
| 04:20.52 | nonenick | how do I connect via imap ssl? |
| 04:21.09 | somiaj | mns: what do you mean by test? You will probabaly have to get a copy of memtest86 and use that intead. |
| 04:21.51 | somiaj | nonenick: look at the configurations, dobuble check the configuration on the machine that works and doens't. 'connection refused' is more dealing with the server you are connecting to (it could also be a network/nameserver issue) |
| 04:22.49 | mns | somiaj: memtest86 .. thats what I was looking for. How do I get that if I'm in a shell in "rescue mode" |
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| 04:25.25 | joepublic | mns, the literal answer is "with wget". The practical answer is that you use a working computer, download memtest86, burn it, and boot to it |
| 04:25.54 | somiaj | mns: you avhe to boot into memetest86. I don't think the installer comes with it, so you'll have to download a copy, put it on a usb, and boot into it. |
| 04:26.01 | somiaj | though if you have debian installed, you can apt install it. |
| 04:26.13 | somiaj | and it will create a boot entry to run it |
| 04:26.27 | joepublic | mns, the instructions of somiaj are better than mine. |
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| 04:30.19 | mns | somiaj, joepublic: I have debian installed, I just can't seem to boot into it. There was a power outage a few weeks ago and the computer has been down since then. Kernel panic upon boot. As far as I can tell the drives are fine, so wanted to test the memory. |
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| 04:32.10 | joepublic | uh, okay, go forth and test memory. |
| 04:32.46 | joepublic | reading about your failed boot(s) in /var/log/kern.log might also be an interesting diagnostic tool. |
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| 04:37.55 | mns | joepublic: thanks I'll try that as well |
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| 04:43.42 | somiaj | mns: if you have the debian installer, you can use it as a way to boot into your debian system, isntall memetest86 from that chroot, and then boot into it. |
| 04:44.23 | somiaj | there is a rescue mode and you just need to point it to your root filesystem, so you use the kernel off the installer and not hte one that is panicing |
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| 04:46.47 | mns | somiaj: yup, thats what I have done |
| 04:47.25 | mns | I'm just trying to see if I can reconfigure grub so that it uses 4.17 rather than 4.18 kernel. Not sure if that is the case. I doubt it. |
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| 05:08.37 | somiaj | if you have 4.17 installed, it should already be configured, just choose that from the grub boot menu |
| 05:08.42 | somiaj | there are ways to change the default |
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| 05:49.40 | annadane | do you really need to do the whole mkdir -p and onward thing in the !nvidia dkms factoid or is it enough to just install the stuff listed at the start |
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| 05:52.28 | annadane | i'm 99% sure it's not necessarily required |
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| 05:56.54 | annadane | update-alternatives takes care of it automatically so there's no need to explicitly blacklist nouveau |
| 05:57.10 | annadane | maybe for certian specific configurations |
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| 07:02.29 | iovec | what apart from Dpkg::Progress-Fancy "0"; do i need to disable apt's progress bar |
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| 07:04.38 | themill | use apt-get instead/ |
| 07:04.40 | themill | ? |
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| 07:10.46 | iovec | themill: yes, but mvogt's blog says that's needed to disable it, but it isn't working |
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| 07:12.53 | themill | Sure, but if you don't want the features of apt that are different to apt-get, just use apt-get? |
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| 07:15.05 | themill | It would be DPkg not Dpkg btw |
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| 07:15.47 | themill | (although it should be case insensitive) |
| 07:15.47 | agio | or use aptitude |
| 07:16.31 | iovec | ok, thanks. |
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| 07:18.56 | Sveta | do we keep apt-get command after 'apt' is available? is that for a while or only for a bit? |
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| 07:26.41 | agio | what do you mean "keep"? do you mean should we as users keep using it ? or are you asking if debian will deprecate and eventually remove the command from the system (which will never happen) |
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| 07:58.49 | cluelessperson | how do you timeout a dd command? |
| 07:58.53 | cluelessperson | I can't seem to figure it out |
| 07:59.04 | annadane | control + c? |
| 07:59.20 | annadane | that's the general process interruption thing |
| 07:59.49 | cluelessperson | annadane: I need to timeout in a script |
| 08:00.04 | cluelessperson | I need to loop through 12 disks and make their led blink with activity for a few seconds. |
| 08:01.13 | cryslith | Hi, I have a question about whether a netinst install image created before the latest point release of Stretch will still be usable after the point release. Is this the right place to ask? |
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| 08:01.55 | annadane | you can still use it but you'd need to update your packages afterward |
| 08:02.21 | annadane | the kernel usually changes at least once between point releases and that isn't included in the netinst |
| 08:02.42 | cryslith | The reason I ask is that our installs are failing with a message about missing kernel modules. |
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| 08:02.55 | cryslith | (Indeed, the kernel version changed in the 9.6 release) |
| 08:03.34 | annadane | i'm not familiar with that particlar problem. maybe someone else knows or try debian-user@lists.debian.org, it's late and you may not get an answer at this time |
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| 08:04.43 | cryslith | Ok, thanks! |
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| 08:04.57 | annadane | (or try again here in a few hours/tomorrow) |
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| 08:05.10 | dirtwash | hi, anyone know how to unsubscribe from debian-security-announce mailing list? if I use their unscrubscibe feature it says my email is not in their account, I tried everything |
| 08:05.13 | annadane | or just idle like everyone does in irc :P |
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| 08:10.08 | annadane | re: mailing lists, not sure. does listmaster@debian.org still exist? can try that or also https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/unsubscribe |
| 08:10.37 | annadane | probably try the latter first before the former |
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| 08:17.40 | CarlFK | how do I upgrade a stretch box to testing? |
| 08:18.07 | CarlFK | is it just change apt/sources and update/upgrade? |
| 08:18.11 | towo^work | CarlFK, if you have to ask, don't do that |
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| 08:19.14 | CarlFK | towo^work: ok, i won't ask, Ill just do it. |
| 08:19.17 | n4dir | Mainly. Might be you have to do more if problematic graphic drivers are involved. |
| 08:19.28 | Fox | CarlFK: why do you want to do that ? |
| 08:19.32 | n4dir | nvidia, or however it is spelled |
| 08:20.25 | CarlFK | Fox: to test a syslinux-efi patch |
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| 08:21.07 | annadane | it's pretty much update/dist-upgrade, yeah |
| 08:21.15 | Fox | ,v syslinux-efi |
| 08:21.16 | judd | Package: syslinux-efi on amd64 -- jessie: 3:6.03+dfsg-5+deb8u2; stretch: 3:6.03+dfsg-14.1+deb9u1; stretch-backports: 3:6.04~git20171011.af7e95c3+dfsg1-5~bpo9+1; buster: 3:6.04~git20171011.af7e95c3+dfsg1-5; sid: 3:6.04~git20171011.af7e95c3+dfsg1-5 |
| 08:21.25 | annadane | ah, backports. |
| 08:21.29 | annadane | yeah, use that i guess. |
| 08:21.43 | Fox | I guess too, same version in stretch backports than buster |
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| 08:23.11 | CarlFK | is testing buster or sid? |
| 08:23.14 | Fox | buster |
| 08:23.18 | Fox | sid in unstable |
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| 08:24.51 | annadane | buster = current testing and backports are taken from testing, recompiled for use in stable |
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| 08:38.34 | discovered | testing is really stable :) |
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| 08:45.49 | Fox | discovered: what ? |
| 08:47.04 | discovered | Fox, I mean, stable than some other distro. It does not break or crash that often as peoples think. |
| 08:47.31 | Fox | it might not crash often, but it can be really broken for some time :) |
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| 08:48.55 | discovered | I used Debian stretch testing for several months. but it never broke. Perhaps i did not fight strongly with the testing? |
| 08:49.32 | Fox | maybe :) |
| 08:49.53 | n4dir | pointing out the obvious: the less packages you have installed, the smaller is the chance to get hit by such a "break". |
| 08:50.21 | n4dir | but for some it is important to be sure to not get hit at all. |
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| 08:52.30 | discovered | I use debian for desktop, it is my main distro. I don't know how many package actually needed for a computer heh |
| 08:52.52 | n4dir | desktop still might be DE or WM ... |
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| 08:54.38 | discovered | I really wanted to see how to break the testing! |
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| 08:56.39 | jelly | discovered: it breaks on its own, you don't have to do anything |
| 08:56.46 | Fox | been a long time since I didn't get away from stable, but long time ago sid used to be lot more stable than testing |
| 08:57.41 | discovered | jelly, basically when upgraded package? |
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| 09:04.41 | nindustries | Hi, i'm having issues with user namespac remapping with docker on debian. My daemon.json lists 'container:container', which has 1001:1001. My files are chmodded 770 with group container. /etc/subuid and /etc/subgid contain 'container:1001:65536' but I still get 'Permission denied'. Ideas? |
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| 09:05.14 | n4dir | having hard times to figure out how to break testing is sure a weird problem ... |
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| 09:07.32 | discovered | I will wait for it to break :) |
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| 09:15.35 | discovered | going to download debian sid to test it :) |
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| 09:16.14 | n4dir | pretty sure that you will have to upgrade from testing to sid. |
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| 09:17.59 | discovered | yes... That what i see |
| 09:18.16 | discovered | I am bit scared now. I will do it in vmware |
| 09:18.18 | discovered | heh |
| 09:18.34 | n4dir | in something like 10 years sid broke exactly once for me. |
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| 09:19.27 | n4dir | but, as said, that is not the point. The point it that it *can* break, at any given time. |
| 09:19.39 | discovered | n4dir, heh... Any Distro can break anytime. Even windows |
| 09:20.14 | Fox | discovered: stable can't break |
| 09:20.31 | at0m | tough to get windows with just a kernel and httpd though |
| 09:20.54 | at0m | running such light setups excludes loads of points of failure |
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| 09:21.05 | at0m | now running KDE otoh.. ;) |
| 09:22.19 | discovered | KDE is buggy than experiemental |
| 09:22.22 | discovered | heh |
| 09:22.34 | discovered | i switched to gnome! |
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| 09:27.31 | at0m | i didn't say which is "more buggy". my point was that once you get quite complex ecosystem where a lot depends on other stuff to work, it gets complicated and more fragile |
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| 09:45.59 | azi` | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:46.08 | azi` | I have downloaded the live CD iso |
| 09:46.17 | azi` | what's the best way to achive that? |
| 09:46.19 | discovered | Fox you using Debian stable for regular use? |
| 09:46.33 | azi` | can I mount the iso & chroot in and apt-get install as I please? |
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| 09:48.12 | Fox | discovered: I used it for years as my only computer, now I only use it for server purpose |
| 09:48.48 | discovered | debian stable is best for server thought :) |
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| 10:04.32 | jelly | azi`: two ways, either create a custom live image, or use a second separate partition on the usb stick for persistency |
| 10:04.39 | jelly | !custom live |
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| 10:04.49 | jelly | hmm |
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| 10:05.17 | sjamaan | Hi all |
| 10:05.50 | sjamaan | We recently released CHICKEN 5.0.0, which is a huge improvement and new major version. I'd really like Debian to include it instead of the now-unsupported CHICKEN 4 before the freeze |
| 10:06.25 | sjamaan | I've contacted the package maintainer about 2 weeks ago, but did not receive a reply |
| 10:06.33 | tarzeau | this? https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/chicken |
| 10:06.46 | sjamaan | yeah |
| 10:07.01 | tarzeau | did you check if it's on salsa.debian.org ? |
| 10:07.20 | sjamaan | No, how does that work? |
| 10:07.34 | sjamaan | A search doesn't result in anything |
| 10:07.39 | sjamaan | Well, something unrelated |
| 10:08.01 | sjamaan | There is a ticket to request an upgrade, iirc |
| 10:08.42 | tarzeau | sjamaan: there you go: http://phd-sid.ethz.ch/debian/chicken/ |
| 10:08.52 | tarzeau | if it finishes building, it's really easy! |
| 10:09.27 | tarzeau | there's still 1 month time to fix get it in the next stable |
| 10:09.30 | sjamaan | Nice! |
| 10:09.36 | sjamaan | Who uploaded this? |
| 10:09.48 | tarzeau | it's not in official debian, it's just a random web server |
| 10:09.55 | tarzeau | with an updated package of an official debian package |
| 10:10.00 | tarzeau | i just created the update |
| 10:10.00 | sjamaan | I see |
| 10:10.03 | tarzeau | (it's still building) |
| 10:10.29 | sjamaan | The new version is also has support for reproducible binaries, I think that should be nice for the stats :) |
| 10:11.30 | sjamaan | Compiling Scheme source -> C is reproducible because it no longer contains any timestamps and such |
| 10:11.43 | sjamaan | And C -> binary is handled by Debian itself I think |
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| 10:17.46 | tarzeau | sjamaan: i got 8 cores, but it's using dh $@ --no-parallel |
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| 10:17.58 | tarzeau | does chicken not support being built with multiple cores? |
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| 10:18.23 | tarzeau | sjamaan: + Keep parallel disable due to the makefile not being parallel-safe. is that still the case? (from 14 nov 2017) |
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| 10:19.00 | sjamaan | yes, parallel builds are not supported |
| 10:20.06 | tarzeau | ah failed to build for me: see the *build log |
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| 10:20.49 | sjamaan | Where's the log? |
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| 10:21.18 | tarzeau | sjamaan: http://phd-sid.ethz.ch/debian/chicken/chicken_5.0.0-1_amd64.build but only because the package should use debian/clean instead of the huge debian/rules |
| 10:21.22 | tarzeau | sjamaan: i can try to fix that |
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| 10:22.37 | sjamaan | That scrutiny-2.expected is in the tarball |
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| 10:26.54 | tarzeau | sjamaan: 2nd try... |
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| 10:39.38 | Ede|Popede | this is a source-only thing so far, the build would still produce the packages listed by `apt-cache showpkg chicken`, is this correct? or am i missing some point with virtual packages? |
| 10:40.04 | sjamaan | I believe so, yeah |
| 10:40.14 | sjamaan | The split is a bit arbitrary but fine |
| 10:40.35 | sjamaan | chicken-bin has the actual programs like the compiler, interpreter, compiler driver and egg management tools |
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| 10:40.43 | sjamaan | chicken-lib should just be the libraries |
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| 10:42.05 | Ede|Popede | the thing is, al i found so far on dbo is https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/virtual-package-names-list.txt, nothing but a bare list and no pointer. |
| 10:42.16 | Ede|Popede | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/96309/how-can-i-know-if-a-virtual-package-is-installed-on-a-debian-system at least gave me a starting point |
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| 10:43.56 | Ede|Popede | have to finally look into this one https://book.dpmb.org/ , discovered it recently |
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| 10:53.12 | Ede|Popede | those splits are at least party debianizations i think. had a look at pandoc some time ago, comparing the packages in stretch with jgm's versions (all i could grab, github master, tarball, .deb). quite different grouping even with such a small item. |
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| 11:12.21 | tarzeau | sjamaan: still there? |
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| 11:12.37 | sjamaan | yeah |
| 11:12.46 | tarzeau | it got further after fixing a wrong rm in debian/rules, but now there's problems with installing tmp/var/lib/chicken/8/*.so no such file |
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| 11:20.36 | tarzeau | sjamaan: trying another rebuild, takes some time. but same url will have *.deb files or not (check *build) |
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| 11:59.31 | otyugh | hey |
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| 12:00.19 | otyugh | journalctl --since yesterday only gives me the session's logg. Is there a way to make it logg longer ? |
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| 12:00.31 | otyugh | Betweeen sessions I mean |
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| 12:01.01 | babilen | otyugh: Please read /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian |
| 12:01.22 | babilen | The section on "Enabling persistent logging in journald" should address that problem |
| 12:01.32 | otyugh | thanks ! |
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| 12:29.09 | sjamaan | tarzeau: The major library version has been bumped to 9, I think that's why the install is failing |
| 12:29.35 | sjamaan | The list of files to be installed has also changed rather drastically |
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| 12:40.56 | patsToms | is someone using MetaInit and can explane how it should be used? |
| 12:41.17 | patsToms | i saw that there is a package but it there any command line tool or whatever that comes with it? |
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| 12:46.59 | Brigo | patsToms, what are you using metainit for? |
| 12:47.50 | patsToms | i don't know how to use but i would like to use it for generating init scripts |
| 12:48.01 | patsToms | found a link to it here https://github.com/wyhasany/sysvinit-service-generator |
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| 13:23.00 | tarzeau | sjamaan: i saw |
| 13:23.15 | tarzeau | sjamaan: the pkg built! |
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| 13:23.22 | tarzeau | NOT |
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| 13:27.40 | cheeseandham | hello all. I wonder if someone can point me to the right direction please. Basically minimal install of Debian Stretch on a Vostro 230. broadcom NIC isn't working (just localhost) |
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| 13:28.01 | cheeseandham | it is in sys/class/net , I'm thinking that the drivers aren't part of debian but are in firmware-linux-nonfree (with dependencies) |
| 13:28.21 | cheeseandham | so the question is, without a network, whats the best way of getting the package? :) |
| 13:28.37 | cheeseandham | download onto USB stick and install the package and dependencies? |
| 13:29.20 | diogenes_ | cheeseandham, you can use tethering |
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| 13:30.12 | cheeseandham | diogenes_, tethering? via phone & USB? |
| 13:30.19 | cheeseandham | that's a thought |
| 13:30.26 | diogenes_ | cheeseandham, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Android_tethering |
| 13:30.30 | diogenes_ | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/IPhone_tethering |
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| 13:30.43 | diogenes_ | very easy way |
| 13:30.55 | cheeseandham | worth a go, thanks diogenes_ |
| 13:31.08 | diogenes_ | ok, come back with a feedback |
| 13:31.47 | cheeseandham | yes, unfortunately my phone has USB C, I think I have one cable in the office, somewhere... |
| 13:31.52 | sjamaan | tarzeau: Hurrah! |
| 13:32.24 | sjamaan | tarzeau: The log at http://phd-sid.ethz.ch/debian/chicken/chicken_5.0.0-1_amd64.build still says it failed though |
| 13:32.27 | sjamaan | Is that old? |
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| 13:32.31 | tarzeau | sjamaan: /me checks |
| 13:32.50 | sjamaan | It's the same error regarding the old files-to-install |
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| 13:34.08 | cheeseandham | diogenes_, everything needs packages installed as far as I can see |
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| 13:34.28 | tarzeau | sjamaan: rebuilding once more... |
| 13:34.38 | sjamaan | What was the issue this time? |
| 13:34.45 | tarzeau | sjamaan: other files with 8, instead of 9 |
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| 13:35.00 | cheeseandham | I'll check to see if firmware-linux-nonfree is in the large install. maybe the net install isn't a good idea with shitty broadcom nic's |
| 13:35.02 | sjamaan | tarzeau: The list of files is pretty drastically different |
| 13:35.11 | sjamaan | Lots of .import.so files that don't exist (and new ones) |
| 13:35.20 | tarzeau | sjamaan: so the debian/* files will need lot more changes |
| 13:35.23 | cheeseandham | ...been a long time since I've installed debian |
| 13:35.29 | sjamaan | I think the README contains a full tree of the files that should be installed |
| 13:35.31 | tarzeau | sjamaan: but you got the debian source package that's almost ready :) |
| 13:35.48 | diogenes_ | cheeseandham, ok, then manually installing offline the package might be the way to go |
| 13:37.01 | cheeseandham | diogenes_, ok. I should've known better than to let a broadcom NIC anywhere near a linux^H^H^H^H^H any installation |
| 13:37.37 | diogenes_ | cheeseandham, you're not the first and not the last with this issue :)) |
| 13:38.44 | queip | While using X like gnome or xcdf user1, how can I start desktop of user2, and see his desktop and run programs there (I know his su password |
| 13:38.46 | cheeseandham | lol, no but I learnt this 15 years ago :) I'm just trying to use a spare bit of hardware for a test and it's gone and thrown a curveball at me :) |
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| 13:46.01 | tarzeau | sjamaan: i need to leave, but the build still continues... |
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| 13:46.29 | tarzeau | sjamaan: you can dget URL.dsc to get the source package, dpkg-source -x the.dsc; cd into the directory and run debuild to finish up the packaging |
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| 13:47.25 | sjamaan | tarzeau: I'll try, but won't have much time until maybe late next week |
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| 14:15.25 | ikarosuusi | Hello! |
| 14:15.48 | ikarosuusi | May I trouble you with a puzzling situation: |
| 14:15.56 | ikarosuusi | I'm installing nvidia drivers that come with cuda |
| 14:16.05 | ikarosuusi | What do I need to be prepared for? |
| 14:16.12 | ikarosuusi | And how to overcome those obstacles? |
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| 14:26.11 | petn-randall | ikarosuusi: How are you planning on installing the nvidia drivers? |
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| 14:29.38 | ikarosuusi | Well, I thought one idea would be to install them through the same runfile that nvidia supplies their cudas |
| 14:31.21 | ikarosuusi | cuda_9.2.148_396.37_linux.run |
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| 14:33.15 | ikarosuusi | but I do have the ones found from experimental installed now |
| 14:33.32 | ikarosuusi | so I guess to avoid conflicts I should do a ninjalike switch of the drivers and then reboot |
| 14:36.29 | asecos | hi everybody, i plan to upgrade a former computer(2007) for my fablab activities with a new graphic card with 2 DVI connectors. Have you got some advices about brand/ref/model will be in good compatibility with Debian Stretch ? No gaming just for software dev and FreeCad. Thanks for your help. |
| 14:37.58 | ikarosuusi | I'd go with the cheaper consumer ones from nvidia you can find at your local store |
| 14:40.08 | asecos | the connector on the mainboard seems to be a PCIe 16x. It's always the standard for GC ? |
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| 14:41.04 | ikarosuusi | you'll have to buy a used one if you want 2 dvi connectors |
| 14:41.14 | ikarosuusi | maybe consider an adapter if you want a new card? |
| 14:41.26 | asecos | at the beginning I thought to buy a used one cause I don't know if the actual GC are compatible. |
| 14:41.43 | ikarosuusi | GTX 1050s usually ship with a setup of like dvi, hdmi and dp |
| 14:42.02 | ikarosuusi | PCI Express x16 3.0 |
| 14:42.21 | ikarosuusi | minimum recommended powersource 300W |
| 14:42.42 | ikarosuusi | That'll run your CAD |
| 14:43.00 | ikarosuusi | It even comes with 640 cuda cores |
| 14:44.51 | asecos | a friend have an old ATI Radeon HD3850 in stock for free, maybe it's an available option ? but radeon have many problems with linux drivers no ? |
| 14:44.56 | ikarosuusi | it's got Dynamic Super Resolution Technology, it's goot Multi-Projection, it's goott Vulcan API, it's got GameStream Technology and it's 3D Vision Ready |
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| 14:45.39 | ikarosuusi | I personally can't comment on that one at all |
| 14:45.58 | ikarosuusi | I've been sticking to nvidia ever since I got my first one |
| 14:47.48 | ikarosuusi | And that's right after 3dfx voodoo |
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| 14:48.12 | asecos | ok |
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| 14:49.02 | ikarosuusi | I took 1 kg of meat from the freezer and put it in the oven at about 70 degrees celcius |
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| 14:49.15 | ikarosuusi | How long until it's cookable? |
| 14:49.33 | annadane | ...um |
| 14:49.41 | annadane | this is a debian support channel? |
| 14:49.52 | Fox | 70 ? will take hours |
| 14:49.53 | ikarosuusi | Yeah I strongly support debian. |
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| 14:50.17 | annadane | you're also assuming a significant cross section of us know how to cook properly :D |
| 14:50.28 | diogenes_ | pork meat? |
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| 14:50.43 | ikarosuusi | cow |
| 14:50.47 | ikarosuusi | you think that really matters? |
| 14:50.53 | Fox | it does |
| 14:50.53 | ikarosuusi | with just defrosting |
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| 14:51.24 | diogenes_ | also how old was the cow? |
| 14:51.29 | ikarosuusi | annadane I assume people on IRC don't really know a lot of real life people. |
| 14:51.41 | ikarosuusi | annadane which takes me to the conclusion most of us have to know how to cook |
| 14:51.54 | bindi | ikarosuusi: minced meat? you're supposed to defrost them in the fridge |
| 14:52.02 | ikarosuusi | not minced |
| 14:52.07 | ikarosuusi | it's a blob |
| 14:52.15 | bindi | ok then, well i guess the same thing would apply |
| 14:52.23 | ikarosuusi | that'd take DAYS |
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| 14:52.30 | ikarosuusi | and I'm somewhat hungry |
| 14:52.40 | Syndrom | ikarosuusi: cause we dont like eating in restaurants? |
| 14:53.09 | ikarosuusi | No Syndrom, because you're poor and you can't afford to eat in restaurants |
| 14:53.18 | ikarosuusi | Only 1% of the population can eat in restaurants. |
| 14:53.31 | ikarosuusi | Why would I assume you belong to that group..? |
| 14:53.46 | Fox | why would you assume he doesn't ? |
| 14:53.58 | ikarosuusi | I'm telling him to get out of here |
| 14:54.03 | ikarosuusi | Take a walk |
| 14:54.06 | ikarosuusi | And ponder |
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| 14:54.57 | ikarosuusi | So hours at 70, eh? |
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| 14:55.26 | ikarosuusi | I don't want to put it too high so it won't end up being dry as hell or something like that. |
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| 15:36.23 | rafalcpp | how to start a program as root, but not from console but from my own program (so there is no terminal, so not "sudo"). Maybe gksudo ? |
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| 15:43.54 | aaii | What is good laptop for debian users and programmer? |
| 15:44.17 | Mathisen | Thinkpads have been popular |
| 15:44.24 | annadane | pretty much anything, though i know people like thinkpads |
| 15:44.28 | Mathisen | but really anyone you like most run debian fine |
| 15:44.51 | Mathisen | lol |
| 15:45.26 | annadane | programming doesn't really... need a very specific kind of computer |
| 15:45.41 | annadane | you can probably run emacs on a toaster |
| 15:45.45 | aaii | I mean programming and computing |
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| 15:46.02 | annadane | M-x toast |
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| 15:46.15 | aaii | annadane, emacs on toaster :D so you can run vim in what ? |
| 15:46.16 | SpeedyG | annadane: true but developers are a rare breed with weird computer requirements :P |
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| 15:46.47 | annadane | what you call Bread is really GNU/Bread |
| 15:46.50 | Kohlrabi | aaii: "Programming" is a function of perpherals (keyboard etc) and screen size, IMHO |
| 15:47.05 | Kohlrabi | aaii: Computation is a funciton of CPU/GPU power and RAM |
| 15:47.09 | Kohlrabi | function* |
| 15:47.15 | aaii | Yup so what? |
| 15:47.19 | annadane | just on a personal level i'm not sure i'd buy a thinkpad due to what happened with lenovo |
| 15:47.28 | Kohlrabi | Well, there is no clear answer |
| 15:47.56 | aaii | annadane, GNU/Bread awesome answer :D |
| 15:47.58 | Kohlrabi | It depends how much processing power you need :D |
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| 15:48.12 | blackpit | the older thinkpads rock, new ones, I haven't tried them, but I think I dislike the new style chiclet keyboard |
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| 15:48.42 | Kohlrabi | thinkpads are still quite nice and robust compared to other laptops |
| 15:48.51 | aaii | I need a light laptop because i move |
| 15:48.56 | Kohlrabi | Oh |
| 15:49.03 | Kohlrabi | So <15'' screen? |
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| 15:49.08 | aaii | yup |
| 15:49.31 | Kohlrabi | most small ones don't have beefy CPUs either |
| 15:49.39 | Kohlrabi | what kind of work is that? |
| 15:49.44 | blackpit | aaii: try a Thinkpad X220, 12.5" screen . the only grievance is the 1366x768 resolution |
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| 15:50.37 | blackpit | i5-2520M or 2540M, plenty fast for standard stuff, there's also an i7 variant, even though not many of those around |
| 15:50.58 | blackpit | they are pretty cheap nowadays |
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| 15:51.09 | bites | what pricerange? |
| 15:51.09 | blackpit | and debian support is great |
| 15:51.23 | aaii | blackpit, https://www.amazon.com/Thinkpad-Lenovo-4299GC3-i7-2640M-FingerReader/dp/B005AJYZE8 this? |
| 15:51.26 | blackpit | I think you could find them for under $150 |
| 15:51.35 | blackpit | used |
| 15:51.54 | Kohlrabi | I'd swap the HDD for an SSD at your earliest convenience, though :) |
| 15:51.58 | bites | aaii: what price range? |
| 15:52.17 | aaii | bites, 1000$< |
| 15:52.22 | blackpit | aaii: this also has the IPS screen, which is superb, orders of magnitude better than the standard TN panel |
| 15:52.24 | aaii | *1000$> |
| 15:52.46 | bites | aaii: then I would get something better than on old x220. |
| 15:52.58 | blackpit | also what Kohlrabi said, SSD is a must, you owe it to yourself, no matter what laptop you get |
| 15:53.41 | blackpit | yep, $1000 is a very nice budget, aaii can surely get something new |
| 15:53.45 | Kohlrabi | Also much more accident-resistant than a rotating platter drive |
| 15:53.46 | SpeedyG | has a HP envy 13" with non-glossy screen (which was actually my main requirement :P) |
| 15:53.56 | blackpit | I am always thinking low budget but capable machines |
| 15:53.59 | RoyK | rotating rust is useful for two things: Mass storage and making cut things of the parts |
| 15:54.18 | SpeedyG | and it has a 1920x1080 res too :) |
| 15:54.22 | Kohlrabi | If you do mass storage on Laptops you're doing it wrong ;) |
| 15:54.24 | aaii | blackpit, yeah if i get laptop , i just use SSD drive |
| 15:54.31 | RoyK | Kohlrabi: hehe |
| 15:54.53 | RoyK | aaii: yes, use those solid state drive drives ;) |
| 15:55.00 | Kohlrabi | hmm |
| 15:55.12 | Kohlrabi | Are the Yoga books nice? |
| 15:56.18 | Kohlrabi | https://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-X260-Computer-1920x1080-i5-6300U/dp/B07GHX9C1T/ this looks nice |
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| 15:56.43 | SpeedyG | to me, thinkpads all look the same..... decent but brick... |
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| 15:57.53 | Kohlrabi | Weird that this is only dualcore, though |
| 15:58.38 | Kohlrabi | Oh shit |
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| 15:58.44 | Kohlrabi | This one doesn't have Ethernet? :O |
| 15:58.51 | aaii | :| |
| 15:58.52 | SpeedyG | many laptops dont have that nowdays |
| 15:58.56 | Kohlrabi | Insane |
| 15:58.57 | SpeedyG | wifi all the way :( |
| 15:59.08 | SpeedyG | just like apple with its removal of 3.5mm jacks.. |
| 15:59.17 | aaii | Ethernet is improttant :D |
| 15:59.22 | Kohlrabi | Do you "emulate" Ethernet Via USB3, then? |
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| 15:59.25 | Kohlrabi | Or how do they do it? |
| 15:59.26 | SpeedyG | has usb-ethernet thingy |
| 15:59.30 | kreyren | How do you install Vulkan on debian? |
| 15:59.31 | bites | it does have rj45 |
| 15:59.31 | Kohlrabi | With a dongle? |
| 15:59.40 | Kohlrabi | bites: Oh, yes it has |
| 15:59.42 | bites | but not sure i would pay so much for that thinkpad. |
| 15:59.54 | Kohlrabi | bites: Comments said it didn't |
| 16:00.28 | blackpit | ethernet via usb eats up a precious usb port :\ |
| 16:00.43 | Kohlrabi | So, sorry, it has RJ45 |
| 16:00.47 | SpeedyG | thats why I mostly use wifi :P |
| 16:00.48 | Kohlrabi | Yes, quite expensive |
| 16:00.53 | blackpit | unless you use the laptop as a desktop, or carry a usb hub at all times |
| 16:01.11 | SpeedyG | if you cary the laptop all the times, who wants ethernet then? :P |
| 16:01.11 | blackpit | not the most convenient thing |
| 16:01.26 | blackpit | I dooooo |
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| 16:01.37 | aaii | SpeedyG, :D in home |
| 16:01.37 | Kohlrabi | SpeedyG: I consider not having a Ethernet port a defect, tbh |
| 16:02.00 | aaii | Whats about laptop of RMS? :D |
| 16:02.04 | Kohlrabi | you might want to connect to a network at some point which doesn't offer a wifi fallback |
| 16:02.34 | Kohlrabi | also, this office here has 1 or 10 Gbit or something, going to 54Mbit is annoying :D |
| 16:02.47 | blackpit | Kohlrabi is right, or you need to get online without having to remember the wifi password, or need high speed lan access |
| 16:02.50 | bites | i mostly use the ethernet port on the docking station and wifi on the go. |
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| 16:03.13 | blackpit | Kohlrabi: and that's in ideal situations, real speed would be about 2-3 MB/s |
| 16:03.18 | Kohlrabi | indeed |
| 16:03.26 | blackpit | not even 20 mbit wherever I tested such a setup |
| 16:03.27 | Kohlrabi | Though the same is true for ethernet |
| 16:03.33 | kreyren | i have issues with https://pastebin.com/4KK9aGFE can anyone help? |
| 16:03.37 | aaii | blackpit, you use X220? |
| 16:04.07 | blackpit | aaii: yes, that's my main machine, and all day machine actually, even at home |
| 16:04.30 | blackpit | I don't use a desktop (even though I have one for testing hardware and stuff) |
| 16:04.39 | blackpit | that's what I am typing now on |
| 16:04.45 | Kohlrabi | blackpit: You have a dock and a backup drive at home? |
| 16:05.05 | blackpit | no dock |
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| 16:05.13 | Kohlrabi | hmm |
| 16:05.22 | blackpit | backup drive? I have an external usb3 drive if that's what you're asking |
| 16:05.32 | Kohlrabi | I'd personally not pay more thatn 600-700$ for a <15'' notebook |
| 16:05.35 | Kohlrabi | than* |
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| 16:05.54 | blackpit | I have two SSDs in the X220, I keep two copies of important files on the laptop, and a third on the desktop |
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| 16:06.09 | Kohlrabi | but if I'd have to use it EVERY DAY, I'd make sure the kezboard and touchpad are rock solid |
| 16:06.26 | Kohlrabi | So I think you should go to a local vendor and try the laptops and esepcially their peripherals |
| 16:06.30 | blackpit | the keyboard is perfect for my taste indeed |
| 16:06.32 | bites | which they are on the new thinkpads. they are one of the best. |
| 16:06.33 | Kohlrabi | And make sure you get an IPS panel |
| 16:06.37 | blackpit | I have the touchpad disabled in the bios |
| 16:06.46 | Kohlrabi | oh |
| 16:07.07 | blackpit | can't use it, it gets on my nerves. not this specific one, all of them |
| 16:07.08 | aaii | Oh so maybe you just on emacs? :D |
| 16:07.09 | InvisibleRasta | hey guys , why do i get this errors at boot? https://pasteboard.co/HPAbZWS.jpg |
| 16:07.11 | blackpit | just use the trackpoint |
| 16:07.15 | Kohlrabi | But Lenovo still has the clit mouse, right? https://xkcd.com/243/ |
| 16:07.16 | blackpit | aaii: hahaha |
| 16:07.24 | blackpit | clit mouse LOL |
| 16:08.41 | aaii | I have this laptop now but it so heavy Dell LATITUDE E6500 |
| 16:08.54 | aaii | And its RAM is 512 MG :D |
| 16:09.13 | InvisibleRasta | milligrams? |
| 16:09.30 | InvisibleRasta | cant even smoke a doobie with that |
| 16:09.44 | blackpit | aaii: you should do as Kohlrabi said. go to a store and test the laptops, the keyboard, touchpad, see which screen is better in your eyes etc |
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| 16:10.21 | blackpit | so you can make a more informed decision. all you will hear from any of us are our personal experiences with laptops, which might not match your preferences. |
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| 16:11.26 | aaii | I am sure , I want buy a thinkpad but i dont know which one blackpit |
| 16:11.35 | blackpit | I only have and use thinkpads myself at home and outdoors without raging much :) |
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| 16:12.41 | blackpit | aaii: I have 5 thinkpads, and the latest generation is the X220, if it breaks, I'll get a X220 again, so I can't really help with the newer models, haven't tested them or anything |
| 16:13.19 | blackpit | perhaps someone else knows better |
| 16:13.27 | aaii | blackpit, so maybe you love x220 :D is this awesome , because you said if it break you buy this again |
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| 16:14.13 | blackpit | for me it is, only gripe is the screen resolution |
| 16:14.18 | Kohlrabi | we have E460s for small lab work here |
| 16:14.24 | Kohlrabi | Which I'd alos use personally |
| 16:14.24 | blackpit | I like everything else |
| 16:14.25 | aaii | Oh whats mass of x220 in Kg? |
| 16:14.39 | Kohlrabi | I'd replace my Acer laptop with a Thinkpad if it breaks |
| 16:14.40 | blackpit | aaii: I think 1.6kg? |
| 16:14.46 | Kohlrabi | also* |
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| 16:15.00 | blackpit | aaii: depends on the battery size you get |
| 16:15.25 | kreyren | hey, i have problems with https://pastebin.com/4KK9aGFE can anyone provide more info? |
| 16:15.29 | aaii | blackpit, maybe if i want buy i but this https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005AJYZE8/ref=psdc_olp_13896615011_a0_B005AJYZE8?ie=UTF8&condition=all |
| 16:15.32 | blackpit | I have the 9-cell and the slice battery |
| 16:15.38 | blackpit | mine is over 2kg now :P |
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| 16:16.13 | bites | aaii: they arn't worth that much. look somewhere else than amazon. |
| 16:16.41 | blackpit | aaii: too expensive. I would get the i5 versions, lots of them out there and way cheaper, too. |
| 16:17.08 | Kohlrabi | blackpit: Is it possible to extend/replace the RAM? |
| 16:17.14 | Kohlrabi | probably replace |
| 16:17.31 | blackpit | Kohlrabi: sure |
| 16:18.03 | blackpit | Mem: 15934 3972 |
| 16:18.17 | blackpit | 2x8 dimms ddr3 on mine |
| 16:18.24 | Kohlrabi | good |
| 16:18.25 | blackpit | came with 1x4 |
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| 16:18.57 | aaii | blackpit, in x220 i should see movie in 1020p or 480p or 720p? :D |
| 16:19.47 | blackpit | 1080p also works, no prob for the cpu/gpu, but you will miss out due to the resolution |
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| 16:19.58 | bites | if you want to be productive you should get a second screen either way. |
| 16:20.24 | blackpit | there is a 1920x1080 IPS screen mod for the X220 but it's difficult to obtain, and of course it's not supported by Lenovo. |
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| 16:20.57 | blackpit | bites: agreed, too much window/virtual desktop switching is cumbersome eventually |
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| 16:26.46 | blackpit | gotta go, work calling |
| 16:26.49 | blackpit | later |
| 16:26.53 | bites | bye |
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| 16:28.14 | danielboston26 | what is the current status of a package for pypy3? |
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| 16:29.48 | bites | #825970 |
| 16:29.49 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/825970 in pypy (open): «pypy: Please package pypy3 as well now»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2016-05-31; last modified: 2018-08-27. |
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| 16:29.56 | bites | doesn't seem to move quickly. |
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| 16:30.29 | danielboston26 | bites yeah i found that |
| 16:30.37 | bites | so that's the status. |
| 16:31.01 | danielboston26 | someone is working on it but its not in the sources list yet |
| 16:31.12 | danielboston26 | not sure how far he/she is on it |
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| 16:32.54 | bites | doesn't look like much happened since august. https://salsa.debian.org/debian/pypy3/commits/debian |
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| 16:33.25 | danielboston26 | whats salsa? |
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| 16:33.43 | greycat | !salsa |
| 16:33.44 | dpkg | salsa.debian.org is the git repository system for Debian's teams. It was migrated from Alioth. See https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa |
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| 16:34.32 | danielboston26 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:34.56 | danielboston26 | is it safe to add that to my sources list? or will i get bugy code? |
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| 16:36.09 | bites | it's not a debian repository, it's just source code. you can try to build it and see how well it works. |
| 16:37.05 | danielboston26 | ah |
| 16:37.30 | danielboston26 | well pypy does have a debian package but it says its baded on stable |
| 16:37.39 | danielboston26 | so i guess testing would break things |
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| 16:42.19 | kreyren | hey, i have problems with https://pastebin.com/4KK9aGFE can anyone provide more info? |
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| 16:44.09 | towo` | kreyren, your 1st problem is not using a serious pastebin |
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| 16:44.41 | hyperlumic | But we love ad-delivered malware! |
| 16:44.43 | kreyren | towo`: meaning? Debian doesn't have wgetpaste is seems |
| 16:45.01 | greycat | The first problem is not describing the problem in plain English here, in order to get people interested enough to consider putting in the effort to click your paste. The second issue is that you used pastebin.com which is almost universally despised. |
| 16:45.56 | n4dir | kreyren: pastebinit is available. |
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| 16:46.18 | kreyren | n4dir: ty, apted |
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| 16:48.17 | kreyren | n4dir: pastebinit doesn't seem to support stout of commands for paste |
| 16:49.02 | n4dir | not sure. these days i did "command | pastebinit", and it worked. You can always redirect to a file , then pastebin that. i guess. |
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| 16:49.30 | kreyren | n4dir: alike? http://paste.debian.net/1053873/ |
| 16:49.50 | greycat | I'm guessing the part s/he actually wanted to show wasn't on stdout, and s/he didn't use 2>&1 where needed. |
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| 16:50.34 | kreyren | nope it won't grab the sterr |
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| 16:51.16 | greycat | If you want to include both stdout AND stderr, you need: mycommand 2>&1 | pastewhatever |
| 16:51.34 | aaii | bites, you said amazon is not good for buy laptop so i should buy where? |
| 16:52.00 | kreyren | n4dir: seem to solve it: https://paste.debian.net/1053874/ |
| 16:52.08 | kreyren | So can you help me now? ^^ |
| 16:52.17 | bites | aaii: dunno, i use ebay for used things. look around. |
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| 16:53.31 | qman__ | I buy all my laptops on ebay |
| 16:53.37 | n4dir | kreyren: i can't, but you might just as well write the line bout the missing extension when building vulkano, it seems, here. |
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| 16:54.13 | kreyren | n4dir: more info? write the line? |
| 16:54.27 | joepublic | buying laptops and cellphones on ebay for me has been about 50/50 success. |
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| 16:54.46 | n4dir | not all people here bother to open a link, it is only one line, you can post it here to target a bigger audience. |
| 16:54.51 | bites | just make sure you have buyer's protection. |
| 16:55.32 | joepublic | buyer's protection does not make the item you receive a useful device. Just reduces (does not eliminate) your losses when it isn't. |
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| 16:56.18 | bites | obviously. |
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| 17:02.24 | jhutchins_wk | !pastbinit |
| 17:02.30 | jhutchins_wk | !pastebinit |
| 17:02.31 | dpkg | A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>. |
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| 17:02.57 | joepublic | pastebinit is zarkingly awesome. |
| 17:03.09 | annadane | zarkingly?! |
| 17:03.15 | greycat | dpkg, pastebinit =~ s/dmesg/dmesg 2>&1/ |
| 17:03.15 | dpkg | OK, greycat |
| 17:03.29 | joepublic | 'zarkingly' is like 'foomastically' but a little shorter |
| 17:04.16 | n4dir | something like gnarly? |
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| 17:05.26 | joepublic | yes, but as an adverb rather than adjective. |
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| 17:14.37 | tarzeau | sjamaan: failed again |
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| 17:18.03 | ctcx | Trying to connect to a remote server with command line sftp. Remote server has ssh port 1234. What's the difference between using "sftp -P 1234" and "sftp -oPort=1234"? |
| 17:18.54 | jhutchins_wk | ctcx: The man page should tell you; it's possible both are valid. |
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| 17:19.17 | fragment1 | ctcx: no ide... I always use ssh blah.file root@boxname:. |
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| 17:19.24 | jhutchins_wk | ctcx: Often commands will have both short and long form options, with the long form taking a double dash. |
| 17:19.31 | fragment1 | oops ssh not scp, disregard |
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| 17:21.05 | jethro | ctcx: -o lets you configure any option as found in ssh_config, Port is just one of them having a dedicated switch (-P) |
| 17:22.03 | ctcx | So -P is just a "particular case" or "abbreviation" of -o global options? |
| 17:22.42 | jhutchins_wk | jethro: Good explanation. |
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| 17:24.05 | ctcx | So -P is just a "particular case" or "abbreviation" of -o global options? |
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| 17:26.52 | jmosco | I have followed all the docs I can find and my bluetooth mouse will not reconnect on its own and always gets disconnected |
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| 17:27.50 | n4dir | ctcx: -P as in "port" |
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| 17:28.29 | ctcx | ok |
| 17:28.31 | n4dir | i use a ~/ssh/config file for years now, and i think it is a good way to handle the problem. |
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| 17:28.51 | jmosco | I set timeouts to 0, HID to true... |
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| 17:30.07 | aaii-z | blackpit, Now i see x1 carbon is good but i see this link: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/X1%20Carbon%205th%20Gen |
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| 17:32.18 | aaii-z | bites, Now i see this link : https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/X1%20Carbon%205th%20Gen Its mean i cant run wifi in x1 carbon? |
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| 17:32.57 | bites | with non-free drivers, probably. |
| 17:33.08 | bites | that's going to be the case with most laptops. |
| 17:33.32 | aaii-z | oh so thats ok :| |
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| 17:33.51 | aaii-z | But heartly i dont like non-free but i have to use :/ |
| 17:36.32 | bites | if you feel strongly about it you can do the research and get one that works without. or maybe someone that isn't me is kind enough to help you with that. |
| 17:37.30 | joepublic | "swim" (someone who isn't me) is a euphemism for "me" on forums talking about things that are illegal |
| 17:38.48 | jelly | bites: well many laptops just need non-free firmware, while the mainboard side of the driver remains free |
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| 17:40.06 | joepublic | despite that, non-free firmware is still non-free. What I mean is that there is not a "main not-technically-free-but-its-just-firmware contrib non-free" division |
| 17:40.16 | bites | i'm aware, just don't care to distinguish most of the time. |
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| 17:42.48 | jelly | usually things get a lot uglier (from a technical perspective) when you actually need non-free drivers, so it's a useful distinction |
| 17:43.02 | n4dir | never really looked that deep, but from the top of my head i can't think of anything not firmware, graphics or wireless which would be found in debian non-free. |
| 17:43.34 | bites | should have said firmware. sorry. |
| 17:44.57 | joepublic | n4dir, I am pretty sure the documentation for gcc is non-free |
| 17:45.07 | n4dir | ha ha. ok, yes, that. |
| 17:45.25 | n4dir | there sure is stuff, just saying that i hardly ever ran in it. |
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| 17:45.31 | jelly | also: glibc documentation |
| 17:45.51 | jelly | without which you don't have a complete C development system |
| 17:46.02 | n4dir | i seem to recall virtualbox{something) was in contrib or non-free, but else ? |
| 17:46.12 | jelly | guest extension bits probably |
| 17:46.14 | bites | there are a few things in non-free that are free-ish but don't fit dfsg, like otrs. |
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| 17:46.28 | jhutchins_wk | !virtualbox |
| 17:46.28 | dpkg | Oracle VM VirtualBox is an almost free software virtual machine solution. To install, see https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox or ask me about <vbox-install jessie>, <vbox-install wheezy>. http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/User_FAQ http://www.virtualbox.org/ #vbox on irc.freenode.net. See also <vbox rename>, <vbox guest>, <vbox extpack>, <vbox migrate win>, <vdi>, <virtualization>. |
| 17:46.30 | n4dir | jelly: well possible. too long ago. |
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| 17:47.40 | joepublic | With respect to virtualbox, virtualbox is free but requires a non-free compiler to compile some obscure included firmware (making it contrib) and virtualbox exensions are stright-up non-free. |
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| 17:48.43 | joepublic | The non-free extensions are required for: Support for USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 devices, VirtualBox RDP, disk encryption, NVMe and PXE boot for Intel cards. |
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| 17:53.04 | annadane | it would be a fun project (read: i'm lazy and will never do it) to go through all the contrib non-free packages and put something in the description that tells you why it's under that designation |
| 17:53.41 | joepublic | Other than just what's in /usr/share/doc/packagename/copyright ? |
| 17:53.49 | annadane | ...oh. |
| 17:54.15 | annadane | crawls into a hole and dies. |
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| 17:54.47 | bites | otrs has a free license. it was put in non-free because of obfuscated javascript dependencies. |
| 17:55.16 | joepublic | your idea is a good one; making a short summary, perhaps classification into a few categories, would be much more easy to parse that reading long, technical, automatically-generated long-winded "copyright" files |
| 17:55.52 | joepublic | bites, I suppose free is as free does. |
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| 17:57.26 | bites | and the only way to find that out was to find the ITP and read through a bunch of mails. |
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| 17:59.42 | joepublic | I am running Trisquel, and man, I tell you, Trisquel will blacklist a package for thinking unfree thoughts. |
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| 17:59.52 | somiaj | bites: if it is in non-free it has non-free compoenents. If it only depended on non-free compoents it would be in contrib. |
| 18:00.07 | somiaj | it could be it ships with a non-free javascript libary (this is a bit different than depends on one) |
| 18:00.25 | bites | not package dependencies. it has a compiled version of jquery included i think. |
| 18:00.43 | joepublic | obfuscated javascript with a free license is code distributed without source (the obfuscated is compiled, not what is edited by a programmer). = non-free. |
| 18:01.10 | bites | yes, my point was it's not always clear from the license. |
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| 18:01.12 | somiaj | yea, shipping a non-free component will do that. |
| 18:01.35 | joepublic | I vote to put annadane in charge of the unofficial "why isn't it free" committee. |
| 18:01.42 | joepublic | I volunteer to help. |
| 18:01.42 | somiaj | there are even the strange cases like virtualbox in contrib. There is no non-free code in the whole source, but you need a non-free complier to build the bios. |
| 18:02.33 | somiaj | well i don't think /usr/share/doc/virtualbox/copyright will address the needing a non-free tool to build the bios. You have to also be able to build the software using only free tools. |
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| 18:15.51 | grobi | hello guys! |
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| 18:17.09 | simpledat | Hi. Does anyone know how to fix this? https://paste.debian.net/1053882/ |
| 18:19.07 | somiaj | what command gave you that output? |
| 18:19.42 | simpledat | somiaj: apt-get upgrade, i also tried apt-get dist-upgrade with same output |
| 18:20.00 | somiaj | what version of debin are you running? |
| 18:20.12 | grobi | i like to deactivate my touchpad while typing. as far as i know i have to do this in: ~/.profile . can somone tell me what to write there? |
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| 18:20.20 | simpledat | somiaj: Debian 9, i guess |
| 18:20.50 | somiaj | simpledat: can you paste the output of 'apt policy' at paste.debian.net and 'apt policy pkg1 pkg2 pkg3' where pkg1 pkg2 pkg3 are the list of packages in that list that didn't get upgraded. |
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| 18:21.09 | annadane | twitches |
| 18:21.52 | somiaj | grobi: what do you mean by while typing? I set up a hot key that activiates/deactivates my touch pad using xinput |
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| 18:22.07 | somiaj | but I don't know if you can set up a way that will deactivate it when you are typing. |
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| 18:26.25 | simpledat | somiaj: https://paste.debian.net/1053885/ |
| 18:26.26 | grobi | yes, somiaj actually i mean second. it was possible in all distros i ussed till today. i'm usin 9.6 now |
| 18:27.07 | somiaj | I am unsure what xorg event is using to know when you are typing or not, but I personally use xinput to enable/disable my touchpad with a hotkey |
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| 18:27.27 | somiaj | but if it is possible in another distro, look at what they do, and configure that in debian. |
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| 18:28.23 | somiaj | simpledat: And the output of the second command, apt policy of all the packages that aren't being upgraded. |
| 18:29.02 | simpledat | somiaj: What do you mean? |
| 18:29.18 | simpledat | Thats the whole output from apt policy |
| 18:30.19 | somiaj | simpledat: I asked for the output of two commands, you only gave me the output of one |
| 18:30.52 | simpledat | sorry somiaj |
| 18:30.57 | annadane | apt policy libegl1 libgl1 libgles2 libglvnd0 libglx0 libopengl0 |
| 18:31.00 | somiaj | grobi: a google search gives me that xserver-xorg-input-synaptics includes a syndaemon that can do that. Though this uses the old libev input method, and stretch has moved ot libinput by default, you may need to look into how to do this with lib input |
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| 18:31.45 | simpledat | annadane: thanks |
| 18:31.54 | somiaj | grobi: https://askubuntu.com/questions/886092/how-do-i-disable-the-touchpad-while-typing -- this seems to have some suggestions, It looks like you may have to enable this option for libinput in your xorg.conf file. |
| 18:32.04 | simpledat | somiaj: https://paste.debian.net/1053889/ |
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| 18:33.11 | grobi | simpledat: thanks |
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| 18:33.44 | simpledat | grobi: What? |
| 18:33.51 | somiaj | simpledat: the issue is due to stretch-backports and pinning. I am unsure why apt thinks it needs to upgrade those packages to the backports version, but if nothing is broken, I would leave it as is. |
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| 18:34.48 | somiaj | simpledat: you have some backport version software installed that seems to make your system think it wants to upgrade those libs to the backports version. In general I try to avoid using backport libs (or software) unless absouulty necessary, as they do not have the testing or security as offical stretch libs. |
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| 18:35.07 | somiaj | You will have to dig through your software, see what you have installed form backports to try to figure out why apt thinks you need to upgrade those to the backport version. |
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| 18:35.55 | somiaj | (oh wait you already have the backport version). Run this command apt -t stretch-backports install libegl1 libgl1 libgles2 libglvnd0 libglx0 libopengl0 |
| 18:36.06 | annadane | in the same vein i wonder why this happens https://paste.debian.net/1053890/ |
| 18:36.10 | somiaj | (this is one of the side affects of using pinning to control backports) |
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| 18:36.38 | somiaj | annadane: and this is in stretch too? |
| 18:36.44 | annadane | yeah stretch |
| 18:37.21 | somiaj | looks like the same issue of a conflict between the stretch version and backports version and apt not able to figure out ht ebest solution, you'll have to manually get this to work. If you really want the backports version of the nvidia driver, add a -t stretch-backports to your install command |
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| 18:38.21 | annadane | https://paste.debian.net/1053891/ |
| 18:38.36 | simpledat | somiaj: Should I really run the command? I dont want to broke anything. 'apt -t stretch-backports install libegl1 libgl1libgles2 libglvnd0 libglx0 libopengl0' |
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| 18:39.28 | somiaj | simpledat: yes, since all those libaries are the stretch backports versioon, that will force upgrade them to the current stretch backports version |
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| 18:39.41 | annadane | and yeah no i "wanted" the stretch version of nvidia - i'm sticking to nouveau for the present, this is more general curiosity - but it introduces all those conflicts |
| 18:39.51 | annadane | oh |
| 18:40.05 | annadane | i think even with !nvidia dkms i get the same, i'd have to see |
| 18:40.06 | somiaj | annadane: well you have some package from stretch-backports on your system causing conflicts, track it down and manually downgrade it back to the stretch version. |
| 18:40.17 | annadane | yeah probably |
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| 18:40.56 | somiaj | I think both yours and simpledat problem come from some past 'apt -t stretch-backports install foo' command |
| 18:41.10 | bites | do you only have non-free for stretch-backports activated. |
| 18:41.28 | bites | question mark. |
| 18:41.33 | somiaj | in general you should not do this right away, you should first, apt install foo (install the stretch-backports version) then apt -t stretch-backports install foo (install the stretch backports version) |
| 18:41.34 | simpledat | bites: Was that question for me? |
| 18:41.40 | bites | no, annadane |
| 18:41.43 | simpledat | oh |
| 18:41.50 | somiaj | this will ensure that libs are not autoamtically installed from stretch-backports if you don't need it. |
| 18:42.11 | simpledat | somiaj: I did get the output by running apt-get upgrade and apt-get dist-upgrade, NOT from apt -t stretch-backports install, btw |
| 18:42.12 | annadane | no i have contrib as well |
| 18:42.21 | somiaj | arg I mean install the stretch version first, then upgrade to the stretch backports version, to avoid instaling uneeded libs from stretch-backports. |
| 18:42.30 | somiaj | simpledat: do not run apt -t stretch-backports upgrade. |
| 18:42.37 | somiaj | simpledat: you get this because of pinning. |
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| 18:42.58 | annadane | i'm perfectly fine using nouveau so it really doesn't matter in my case |
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| 18:43.48 | somiaj | simpledat: but once you run the command I gave you to run, in the futgure apt upgrade will keep the libaries upgraded to the stretch-backports version. |
| 18:43.57 | simpledat | somiaj: Im confused. You just todl me to run 'apt -t stretch-backports install libegl1 libgl1libgles2 libglvnd0 libglx0 libopengl0' |
| 18:44.03 | simpledat | told :/ |
| 18:44.33 | bites | annadane: i'm asking if you have non-free for the main stretch repo activated. if not, it will try to install the only version of nvidia-driver it sees, which is in backports, but not be able to resolve its dependencies, because of the missing -t stretch-backports flag. |
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| 18:45.05 | somiaj | simpledat: yes that command does a far different thing that apt -t stretch-backports upgrade. |
| 18:45.21 | simpledat | somiaj: oh my bad, sorry! |
| 18:45.22 | somiaj | simpledat: you only want to install packages you want from stretch-backports. You don't want to blindly upgrade all your packages to stretch-backports version. |
| 18:45.47 | annadane | bites, https://paste.debian.net/1053892/ |
| 18:45.47 | somiaj | now I think the reason you are in this situation is you installed something from stretch-backports (Which is fine) without first install the stretch version. |
| 18:45.50 | azi` | I am running a tiny custom debian live cd I just made, and when I try to run a program related to the camera, I get the following issue system error: opening video device '/dev/video0': |
| 18:46.00 | azi` | what could be the issue of this? |
| 18:46.06 | azi` | where should I be looking for mistakes? |
| 18:46.08 | somiaj | Unforutally (though not well documented) it is better to first install the stretch version then upgrade to stretch-backports if you want to use software from stretch-backports. |
| 18:46.26 | grobi | somiaj: i found something else: under: /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf i added: Option "DisableWhileTyping" "on" in the Section "InputClass" Identifier "libinput touchpad catchall" just in the line before: EndSection |
| 18:46.29 | somiaj | azi`: how did you make this custom liv dvd. |
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| 18:47.09 | somiaj | grobi: That is where I should look. I don't know xinput or touch pads well enough to do more than point you in the right direction. As I said, I completely disable my touchpad and use a wireless mouse (I dislike touchpads) |
| 18:47.09 | azi` | somiaj: I followed this guide: https://willhaley.com/blog/custom-debian-live-environment/ |
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| 18:47.30 | simpledat | somiaj: my bad, what I meant was, I did get the output by running apt-get upgrade andapt-get dist-upgrade. I never run any other commands. |
| 18:47.56 | grobi | now i do a restart to see if it still works after that and i'll tell you then |
| 18:48.17 | bites | annadane: did you change that recently and not run apt update? i'm almost sure that's the case because it's obviously trying to install the version from stretch-backports. |
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| 18:48.41 | simpledat | somiaj: Btw, The main reason why I used backports was because of this guide, https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
| 18:49.16 | annadane | bites, well i just did an apt update and get the same |
| 18:49.17 | simpledat | somiaj: : They said I have Add stretch-backports to my /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 18:49.21 | somiaj | simpledat: ahh yea, that makes sense. You should have first installed the strech drivers, then upgrade. But oh well, after you run that command I gave you, apt should rember and upgrade those libs to backports in the future. |
| 18:49.25 | bites | weird. |
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| 18:49.58 | somiaj | simpledat: yea, stretch-backports is useful to get newer software, but there are a few side affects of how pinning works and installing software from it. |
| 18:50.06 | azi` | somiaj: any idea how to get the video going? |
| 18:51.11 | simpledat | somiaj: I actually dont know how to install nivida drivers by using stretch. The guide told me to do apt-get install -t stretch-backports nvidia-driver. There is no other options what I can see (in that guide). |
| 18:51.19 | somiaj | azi`: unsure, I'm not familar with that, what video card are you using and did the kms driver for it load. |
| 18:51.28 | simpledat | somiaj: Thank you! |
| 18:52.00 | annadane | it basically has to be streamlink making the conflict, but whatever |
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| 18:52.18 | InvisibleRasta | do i have to compile everything from source if i want to install Deepin DE in debian? |
| 18:52.24 | simpledat | I wish you guys a nice weekend |
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| 18:52.42 | somiaj | simpledat: you should have followed the instructions for 375.66, most likely that would have supported your card. |
| 18:52.48 | bites | annadane: i can reproduce after switching non-free in main off and on. it must be a weird bug in aptitude. |
| 18:52.52 | azi` | somiaj: its a virtualbox setup for now, my question is whether the above procedure somehow avoids webcam drivers or is that supposed to work "out of the box" |
| 18:53.10 | annadane | i don't think installing it via apt works either, let me try... |
| 18:53.27 | somiaj | azi`: unsure, but if you are using a virtualbox guest, maybe you need to have the virtualbox guest module added to the guest. |
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| 18:53.49 | annadane | https://paste.debian.net/1053894/ |
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| 18:54.21 | annadane | hmm... multiarch problems...? |
| 18:54.44 | somiaj | annadane: you may have to run down the rabbit hole and figure out which of the dependencies is actually preventing the package from being installed. |
| 18:54.46 | simpledat | somiaj: I will try to remember that to next time. But for now, Im good to go? |
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| 18:54.54 | somiaj | simpledat: yea, you should be fine. |
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| 18:55.16 | grobi | somiaj: finally it works like it should. now it would be great to set the time how long it should be disabled |
| 18:55.26 | somiaj | simpledat: stretch-backports packages are made by debian matainers, but there is some subtle issues with them (Due to pinning) that may not be apparent to many sers. |
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| 18:55.55 | somiaj | grobi: look into libinput options, you can probally set this in that xorg.conf file |
| 18:55.57 | annadane | somiaj, yeah clearly, i'm just surprised there's that many problems |
| 18:55.58 | simpledat | somiaj: What does it mean? pinning? |
| 18:56.07 | annadane | that being said i've been super lazy and never did it, sorry |
| 18:56.09 | simpledat | somiaj: Like conflitct between packages? |
| 18:56.13 | simpledat | conflict |
| 18:56.39 | grobi | you mean the manpage, right? |
| 18:56.41 | annadane | i'm kind of curious if just removing i386 fixes it |
| 18:57.03 | bites | what does the nvidia driver have to do with wine anyway? |
| 18:57.14 | steeznson | Can anyone give me a run down on frankendebian? I installed jessie on my work pc but realised that I needed python3.6 so temporarily enabled testing repos to access it. I've just got the stretch repos at the moment but aside from python3.6 I've also got about 10 packages from testing and they are quite vital ones - gcc, g++, perl-26. |
| 18:57.26 | xata | Hello. Is there any way to specify apt-get install to actually install package that it could find from parameter? Something like "a | b | c" in control-file? |
| 18:58.18 | xata | Like logic OR-ing by existence in repos |
| 18:58.54 | bites | yes, exactly how you described it. https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html |
| 18:59.42 | bites | "may also include lists of alternative package names, separated by vertical bar (pipe) symbols |. In such a case, that part of the dependency can be satisfied by any one of the alternative packages." |
| 19:00.27 | xata | bites, that is for control-file. I want to achieve same behaviour in command line using apt-get |
| 19:00.41 | bites | ah |
| 19:00.41 | xata | Thanks for link though |
| 19:00.54 | somiaj | simpledat: apt compares packages by version numbers to determine what is bigger than the other. pinning is a way to make it so stretch versions are considered greater than stretch-backports version |
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| 19:01.20 | somiaj | simpledat: this is to make it so stretch-backports packages are not installed by default, but only if requested, there is just some subtle side affects to this. |
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| 19:02.10 | simpledat | somiaj: hmh. Ok |
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| 19:02.53 | xata | Problem is some old distros have no mariadb and i want CI install libmariadb-dev OR libmysqlclient-dev depending on what exists with priority on libmariadb-dev |
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| 19:03.13 | koollman | why would you use old distros ? :) |
| 19:03.43 | xata | koollman, because i work with people using squeeze in 2018 is not ridiculous |
| 19:03.58 | xata | *people thinking that using |
| 19:04.26 | greycat | apt-get install libmariadb-dev || apt-get install libmysqlclient-dev |
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| 19:04.34 | greycat | Next! |
| 19:05.01 | koollman | greycat: not really robust |
| 19:05.03 | jelly | that || thing is magical! |
| 19:05.17 | jelly | koollman, how is it not robust |
| 19:05.23 | greycat | A "CI" isn't very "C" if it doesn't have a reliable local repository to draw on. |
| 19:05.44 | koollman | jelly: the first part could fail for reasons other than libmariadb-dev, and then you end up with libmysqlclient-dev potentially |
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| 19:06.10 | koollman | I would rather test distribution version than package availability |
| 19:06.17 | greycat | Do that, then. |
| 19:06.29 | jelly | koollman, okay, but do check dependencies on libmysqlclient-dev on Debian releases that have both |
| 19:06.41 | jelly | the result migh suprise you! |
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| 19:08.27 | xata | koollman, well you are right, but that quickie does enough for me. I could set what exact i want to install on each distro, CI YAML has such functionality, but that is not worth the effort |
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| 19:09.28 | xata | If you use squeeze in 2018 you have to suffer |
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| 19:11.57 | koollman | actually kind of fun idea. https://dpaste.de/EYcA (but ok, I get your point :) ) |
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| 19:15.31 | grobi | somiaj: nothing about time(out) in manpage, but i go on searching :) |
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| 19:31.15 | InvisibleRasta | is there an unofficial repository for gtk themes? i cant find many in the stretch ones |
| 19:32.33 | somiaj | gtk2 or gtk3, stretch will provide the engines, and you can look at like gnomelook or some other site to download themes to put in $HOME/ |
| 19:32.44 | somiaj | often times you'll need the appropriate engine to go with the desired theme. |
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| 19:33.20 | somiaj | but I would suggest putting themes you download in $HOME |
| 19:35.08 | InvisibleRasta | i see |
| 19:35.23 | InvisibleRasta | i tought there was a custom repo or so to make things a bit faster |
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| 19:36.19 | somiaj | I don't trust many custom repos being compadable wtih debian. Most are made for ubuntu or aren't good quality packages. |
| 19:36.44 | somiaj | In this case (themes) can be installed safely in the users $HOME and you can leave your main system alone (to take advantage of the high quality debian packages and stability) |
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| 19:37.15 | InvisibleRasta | i see |
| 19:38.20 | somebody | Hello. What commands can I use to put this debian-9.6.0-amd64-netinst image on a USB stick? |
| 19:38.55 | hyperlumic | cp file.iso /dev/sdx |
| 19:39.16 | somiaj | somebody: what operating system are you doing this from? |
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| 19:39.42 | InvisibleRasta | dd if=path_to.iso of=/dev/sdxX bs=4M |
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| 19:40.26 | hyperlumic | InvisibleRasta: Same thing, way more keystrokes. |
| 19:40.31 | somiaj | InvisibleRasta: cp is easier to use and does a good job (also what the installer recommends) |
| 19:40.38 | somebody | somiaj, this is a Linux box that has no free space on it. |
| 19:40.42 | somiaj | cp has better defaults than dd to (so will often be faster if defaults are used) |
| 19:41.15 | somiaj | somebody: then as hyperlumic said, just cp it to the usb device (not partition), so make /dev/sdX appropriate (also be careful this will destory all data on /dev/sdX so make sure you get the right device) |
| 19:41.30 | somebody | Sure. |
| 19:41.40 | somebody | Will do. |
| 19:41.53 | somebody | The expectation is that I'm going to put the net install image on the stick, and then create a live image from the net install. |
| 19:42.00 | somebody | Will that idea work? |
| 19:43.13 | hyperlumic | Why not just write a live image directly? |
| 19:43.31 | somebody | Oh, I guess I can download it to a ramdisk. |
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| 19:43.46 | hyperlumic | somebody: Don't even need to do that. |
| 19:43.52 | hyperlumic | somebody: curl or wget? |
| 19:44.01 | somebody | I have wget. |
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| 19:44.03 | somiaj | hyperlumic: well their drive is full |
| 19:44.16 | hyperlumic | somiaj: So? |
| 19:44.38 | hyperlumic | I don't generally ADVISE this, but one can wget straight to the stick. |
| 19:44.52 | somebody | My network is pretty fast, so I guess I can write the image directly to the stick? |
| 19:45.01 | hyperlumic | wget -qO- http://domain/img.iso | dd of=/dev/sdx |
| 19:45.25 | hyperlumic | https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
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| 19:46.15 | hyperlumic | Pick your live DE of choice, use the https ISO link in the above command, off you go. |
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| 19:48.02 | hyperlumic | somebody: Note that with the q flag, you won't see any output. |
| 19:48.13 | hyperlumic | So if it just sits, that's expected. Remove the q flag if you want to see progress. |
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| 19:48.48 | somebody | Oh, that's fine. I don't need to format the stick beforehand with a different file system, do I? |
| 19:49.02 | hyperlumic | Nope, it's going to wipe out anything you do anyway. |
| 19:49.32 | somiaj | no the debian .iso file is a fully partition table with a disk image on it. YOu just need to copy the disk image directly to the usb stick (not partation or filesystem) |
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| 19:50.00 | somebody | OK, great peoples, let's see what happens... |
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| 19:51.44 | somebody | Do I need to run it as superuser? The 'dd' command says, "permission denied". |
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| 19:51.57 | hyperlumic | Yes. |
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| 19:52.18 | hyperlumic | Writing directly to a device requires superuser privileges, yes. :P |
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| 19:52.25 | somebody | Oh, good. |
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| 19:53.57 | somiaj | (you could have your user in the disk group, though thiis is probably not recommended) |
| 19:54.11 | somebody | Makes sense, thank you. |
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| 20:02.28 | InvisibleRasta_ | somiaj, i ended up finding a cool script to install some themes https://github.com/tliron/install-gnome-themes |
| 20:04.30 | somebody | How can I see when it's done? (I expected it to take about ten minutes, but I'm not seeing any activity on my network monitor already.) |
| 20:07.28 | InvisibleRasta_ | i think dd has a status= progress option aswell to see the percentage |
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| 20:10.06 | somebody | Would that work for an in-progress command? |
| 20:10.37 | InvisibleRasta_ | i dot think so |
| 20:10.44 | InvisibleRasta_ | what are you dd'ing ? |
| 20:11.51 | n4dir | somebody: dd can seem painfully slow when waiting for it to finish. I think you picked the live DVD? which is rather huge. 15 minutes still sounds like a lot. |
| 20:12.07 | InvisibleRasta_ | i think he had a netinstall iso |
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| 20:12.44 | InvisibleRasta_ | weird on usb2 it shouldnt take more than 5 minutes to dd 350mb to an usb |
| 20:12.47 | n4dir | i would probably open a second terminal tab, do pgrep dd; or ps ax | grep dd; and, not sure if it makes sense, do "du -sh /dev/name_of_device" |
| 20:12.56 | n4dir | a few times, to see if it still grows. |
| 20:13.07 | somebody | Ah, gotcha! |
| 20:13.14 | n4dir | if you took the netinst, then it takes way too long. |
| 20:13.26 | somebody | I'm getting the DVD, but it's a fast connection, so it should be done soon. |
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| 20:13.43 | InvisibleRasta_ | ah tought u alredy had the iso |
| 20:13.48 | n4dir | oh, right, the download itself, i didn't even take that in account. |
| 20:13.56 | somebody | Nope, no space on the drive. |
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| 20:15.28 | n4dir | I'd give it another ten minutes or such. Sucks, that's for sure. |
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| 20:17.42 | somebody | 'du -sh' says zero, doesn't grow. |
| 20:17.45 | somebody | Is that bad? |
| 20:17.54 | somebody | Looks kinda odd. |
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| 20:19.06 | n4dir | no idea (well, it does look odd. I never saw that pipe with wget | dd; so no real clue). Perhaps the download is still running ? (would be really long). |
| 20:20.12 | somebody | Pipe was 'sudo wget -qO- https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-9.6.0-amd64-kde.iso | dd of=/dev/sdb' |
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| 20:20.48 | somebody | I don't think the download is running, the network monitor isn't showing anything. |
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| 20:22.33 | n4dir | i am running the same command with the netinst, but | of=file; and filesize of file is growing |
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| 20:22.37 | n4dir | and it finished. |
| 20:22.50 | n4dir | hmm. i can't tell you more, sorry. |
| 20:23.28 | somebody | No worries, I'll give it another ten minutes. |
| 20:23.34 | somebody | Then panic. |
| 20:23.43 | n4dir | haha. good choice. |
| 20:24.37 | Ede|Popede | gives SIGUSR1 to dd some info? |
| 20:25.08 | somebody | I'm not sure how to run that command, Ede|Popede. |
| 20:25.25 | hyperlumic | kill -USR1 <dd pid> |
| 20:25.39 | joepublic | killall -USR1 dd |
| 20:25.54 | jhutchins_wk | somebody: I would try running the download separately from the dd command. You may be getting an error or something from wget. |
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| 20:27.48 | watchcat | most of the time will be the write to the usbstick, not the download. so it's normal not to see net activity after a while. |
| 20:28.55 | somebody | Sure, sure, but the 'du -sh /dev/sdb' still says zero. |
| 20:29.10 | somebody | So methinks it was a wget error, or something. |
| 20:29.17 | somiaj | somebody: I don't think du will correctly identify the size |
| 20:29.27 | hyperlumic | somiaj: du only works for filesystems, which this is not. |
| 20:29.35 | joepublic | dcfldd is a version of dd that shows ongoing progress |
| 20:29.36 | somiaj | du asks for the size of that 'file' on the file system, and since it is a device node, it will give the size of the device node which is 0 |
| 20:29.56 | watchcat | if your usbstick has an activity led you can see if it's flashing. |
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| 20:30.58 | n4dir | what i don't understand: if he has no space left, and he wants to write to /dev/sdb; where on earth is the download supposed to be stored? |
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| 20:31.53 | hyperlumic | n4dir: If you're piping wget to stdout and then into dd onto the stick, it doesn't need to get stored anywhere. |
| 20:32.17 | n4dir | voodoo, i say. but thanks. |
| 20:32.28 | watchcat | and a dvd can take a long, long time to write to a usbstick. |
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| 20:33.28 | hyperlumic | n4dir: Maybe, but it absolutely works. |
| 20:34.01 | n4dir | i guess i will have to believe you ( my misunderstanding is probably that i think of it as: first finish wget, then pipe to dd) |
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| 20:34.58 | hyperlumic | n4dir: It'll actually write to the stick as it downloads. wget need not finish for dd to start writing. dd will simply write what it gets from wget as it gets it. |
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| 20:35.20 | n4dir | cool stuff, for sure, thanks again. |
| 20:35.44 | hyperlumic | Now, generally, I strongly advise against any kind of wget/curl/anything from the internet into any other command, due to the potential for maliciousness. |
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| 20:37.17 | hyperlumic | But given the use case and the details, I'm comfortable with it in this -single- instance. |
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| 20:41.08 | watchcat | if you have two open usb connectors and two usbstickes, you could format and mount one of them, download to it, then burn the image to the other one. |
| 20:41.40 | somebody | I do, but I want to see what happened to this thing first. |
| 20:41.59 | watchcat | yeh, me too. |
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| 20:53.21 | somebody | hyperlumic, so is there a command I can run to see if it's done or not? |
| 20:54.15 | hyperlumic | If it was done, it would just exit. It shouldn't take that long. |
| 20:54.29 | hyperlumic | At this point, ctrl-c it, and rerun it without the q flag. |
| 20:54.35 | somebody | Oh! It exited almost immediately. |
| 20:54.36 | Ameisen | dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/rpcbind_1.2.5-0.3_amd64.deb (--unpack): unable to open '/usr/bin/rpcinfo.dpkg-new': No such file or directory |
| 20:54.36 | dpkg | ameisen: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin). |
| 20:54.42 | Ameisen | I presume that that's not normal... |
| 20:54.42 | somebody | I should have added that bit. |
| 20:54.53 | hyperlumic | somebody: PERHAPS. :D |
| 20:55.01 | noln | somebody, sync ; eject /dev/sdbn |
| 20:55.28 | somebody | Alright, so I want to figure it out... |
| 20:55.31 | hyperlumic | somebody: As root (NOT sudo), run this: wget -O- https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-9.6.0-amd64-kde.iso | dd of=/dev/sdb (note the lack of a q flag) |
| 20:55.40 | hyperlumic | somebody: That version won't suppress wget's messages. |
| 20:55.43 | somebody | OK. |
| 20:56.02 | hyperlumic | Obviously, replace 'sdb' with whatever the device is for the stick. |
| 20:56.21 | hyperlumic | Though, that was yours, so I assume sdb is the target. |
| 20:56.24 | noln | the kernel defers input-output so that the command terminates before it's done (data is still in the RAM, buffered while being written) |
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| 20:56.38 | somebody | Yep, 'sdb' is the target. |
| 20:56.46 | hyperlumic | noln: It didn't run correctly. |
| 20:57.10 | hyperlumic | So syncing it wouldn't help. And there is no 'n' in this case, it's a direct device write. |
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| 20:57.34 | somebody | Well, I gave it almost an hour. I assume it would have been done by now. |
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| 20:57.48 | hyperlumic | If it exited almost immediately, then it didn't do what it should have done. |
| 20:58.03 | somebody | Yep, it exited immediately. |
| 20:58.11 | hyperlumic | Then it didn't do The Thing(tm). |
| 20:58.15 | Ameisen | ah, failing because of a symbolic link |
| 20:58.30 | somebody | Hey, that's a good mirror, 2MB/s! |
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| 20:59.17 | hyperlumic | somebody: So it's downloading this time? |
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| 21:01.09 | ikarosuusi | how am I supposed to install custom cuda |
| 21:02.08 | somebody | Yep, speed went up to 3MB/s now, so it seems to be working, hyperlumic, says, "Saving to: 'STDOUT'", obviously with different brackets. |
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| 21:06.56 | ikarosuusi | lol nice hyperlumic |
| 21:07.18 | ikarosuusi | I can appreciate the image, that's only going to be used once in it's lifetime, not ending up at some download folder gathering dust |
| 21:07.36 | ikarosuusi | although, many of those files have found their second usage as well |
| 21:07.52 | hyperlumic | ikarosuusi: In this case, it's because his disk is too full to hold the image. |
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| 21:08.22 | ikarosuusi | he should have done that all along |
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| 21:08.23 | ikarosuusi | :D |
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| 21:13.38 | annadane | stupid question about virt-manager (get used to this). my host has ~7 GB of RAM and i set the guest to have 4 GB of RAM and i partition a linux distro such that swap is 7 GB. this is probably the wrong approach anyway, but how much swap does that actually use? |
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| 21:13.52 | n4dir | i was hoping for a "success!" from somebody before i head over to bed, but i guess i will miss it. dang. night all. |
| 21:14.27 | somiaj | depends on how much ram you actually use |
| 21:14.55 | somebody | n4dir, it'll work fine, just on the second time. |
| 21:14.58 | somebody | *run |
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| 21:15.12 | annadane | right, obviously swap is variable but i just wonder how much RAM it has access to... i'm pretty sure if i set it to 4 GB then it will only ever use 4 GB |
| 21:15.13 | n4dir | good luck and fun then. night. :-) |
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| 21:15.27 | somebody | Good night, n4dir. |
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| 21:16.05 | annadane | i want... i guess half of what the total is inside the guest |
| 21:16.12 | annadane | so i should set it to 2 GB of swap |
| 21:16.47 | somiaj | set what to 2gb of swap? |
| 21:16.56 | somiaj | the guest? |
| 21:17.20 | jelly | annadane, it will think it has 4GB available, exceptions: 1) VM solutions that have a feature called "balooning" in case of memory pressure on host 2) VM solutions that don't have balooning |
| 21:18.34 | jelly | if there's no memory pressure on host, then the VM can actually use all its allocated RAM |
| 21:18.49 | ikarosuusi | Loook I installed nvidia-drivers from apt and cuda from here: https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-92-download-archive |
| 21:18.53 | ikarosuusi | and the cuda doesn't work |
| 21:19.05 | ikarosuusi | /home/ikaros/NVIDIA_CUDA-9.2_Samples/bin/x86_64/linux/release/deviceQueryDrv: error while loading shared libraries: libcuda.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 21:19.16 | somiaj | ikarosuusi: why not also install cuda from apt? |
| 21:19.17 | joepublic | clever, nice use of namedropping "apt" into a totally unrelated issue. |
| 21:19.56 | ikarosuusi | because I want the spesific version and apt only offers the latest "stable" considered per repository |
| 21:20.04 | ikarosuusi | which seems like really flaky approach |
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| 21:20.23 | joepublic | if stable seems flaky, perhaps up is down and light is dark. |
| 21:20.26 | jelly | annadane, if there is memory pressure on host, then 1) balooning can STEAL available RAM from a guest so it (temporarily) thinks there's less RAM available inside or 2) there's no balooning so some of guest RAM will not actually be backed by host RAM but by host swap, leading to crappy performance |
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| 21:20.37 | ikarosuusi | kick that troll |
| 21:20.39 | ikarosuusi | please? |
| 21:20.53 | hyperlumic | ikarosuusi: 9.1 is in stretch-backports. |
| 21:21.02 | ikarosuusi | I have 9.2 |
| 21:21.16 | hyperlumic | ikarosuusi: I'm aware, but you're going to have a much easier time of things in the long run using packaged versions. |
| 21:21.22 | ikarosuusi | Nono |
| 21:21.24 | ikarosuusi | Not at all |
| 21:21.35 | ikarosuusi | See, CUDA is something that when used, it's commonly used in programming projects |
| 21:21.45 | hyperlumic | I know exactly what CUDA is. |
| 21:21.46 | ikarosuusi | Now programming projects usually require spesific things in order to work |
| 21:22.22 | jelly | ikarosuusi, we have no idea why your cuda from outside of Debian does not work. You might want to ask the people providing it. |
| 21:22.26 | hyperlumic | ikarosuusi: I assume because of your condescending attitude that you have EVERYTHING figured out and need no further assistance. Good luck. |
| 21:22.45 | DammitJim | do you guys have any good suggestions on how I can figure out if my connection to a debian server is slow or if my debian server is slow? |
| 21:22.54 | ikarosuusi | All you can say is install it from apt |
| 21:23.01 | jelly | hyperlumic, they're jsut a newbie developer, and your own attitude is showing again |
| 21:23.04 | ikarosuusi | All the fucking debian site says is install it from apt |
| 21:23.10 | ikarosuusi | All you can fucking do is run apt commands |
| 21:23.12 | ikarosuusi | so YEAH |
| 21:23.23 | ikarosuusi | fuck you, I'm condescending towards that |
| 21:23.26 | hyperlumic | jelly: Yes, it is. And? |
| 21:23.28 | joepublic | DammitJim, what is behaving slowly? |
| 21:23.30 | ikarosuusi | finally figured out why? |
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| 21:23.34 | ikarosuusi | good luck. |
| 21:23.37 | DammitJim | so, I have a terminal on my laptop, right? |
| 21:23.43 | DammitJim | I ssh into my server |
| 21:23.56 | DammitJim | and connecting to the server is slow (it's taking 10 seconds vs 1 before) |
| 21:23.56 | somebody | hyperlumic, thank you, it worked flawlessly. |
| 21:24.01 | hyperlumic | somebody: Good to hear. :) |
| 21:24.01 | DammitJim | and when typing, there is a lag |
| 21:24.20 | jelly | ikarosuusi, we urge people to use packaged stuff because that solves issues that happen when you install stuff from outside debian |
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| 21:24.31 | somebody | It looks like the actual writing was happening as fast as the download, because I got a notification about the stick being ready from the device notifier immediately as it finished. |
| 21:24.33 | DammitJim | CPU and RAM look good on the server |
| 21:24.36 | joepublic | ah, and so you wonder, are the packets taking so long to transfer, or is the server thinking about them for a long time |
| 21:24.43 | ikarosuusi | yeah I know and it works beautifully well in 99% of the use cases, jelly |
| 21:24.47 | ikarosuusi | but this isn't one of them |
| 21:24.55 | DammitJim | si, joepublic |
| 21:25.10 | LaScoumoune | Hello team |
| 21:25.39 | DammitJim | I won't have physical access to the server for a couple of days... |
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| 21:26.29 | ikarosuusi | this is fucking aggravating |
| 21:26.31 | jelly | ikarosuusi, and if you're using something from outside Debian, it just might be the case that noone here has a clue about it. Please accept that possibility. |
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| 21:26.53 | joepublic | how is you ping time, can you download something from the server, etc. |
| 21:26.54 | jelly | ikarosuusi, and stick to tech issues, venting is not constructive |
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| 21:27.20 | DammitJim | joe, that's the other problem... I can't ping the server because it's behind a NAT |
| 21:27.54 | ikarosuusi | it's cuda |
| 21:27.58 | ikarosuusi | C U D A |
| 21:28.08 | ikarosuusi | so I'd figure someone knows how to use it |
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| 21:28.17 | ikarosuusi | or what kind of things are we on about here? |
| 21:28.19 | joepublic | in #cuda? |
| 21:28.21 | ikarosuusi | writing notes? |
| 21:28.52 | watchcat | ignores the irrational guy |
| 21:28.54 | jelly | ikarosuusi, I bet many people present in #nvidia channel know about it |
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| 21:30.04 | somiaj | ikarosuusi: standard advise in #debian is to use the version of the driver and cuda availble in debian non-free that is designed to be integrated into debian. If using upstream, you may have to configure it properly, and thus find people/support for that, including asking nvidia. |
| 21:30.22 | joepublic | DammitJim, i guess i am thinking that if you can ssh to the server, you can sftp or sshfs and see how fast that goes. |
| 21:30.46 | joepublic | that doesn't separate the network connection from the server processing time, but at least it's not exactly the same as ssh |
| 21:30.49 | ikarosuusi | its verbal abuse to tell someone to go ask nvidia |
| 21:31.14 | ikarosuusi | it's like go ask microsoft, only worse |
| 21:31.20 | ikarosuusi | alot worse |
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| 21:31.37 | joepublic | nevertheless, the option is there to ask them. |
| 21:31.44 | jelly | ikarosuusi, stop. Keep chat in here to tech issues. If you can't do that I'll have to quiet you. |
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| 21:32.22 | DammitJim | joepublic, transfer speed is 8.8MB/s (using scp) |
| 21:32.33 | ikarosuusi | joepublic youre a fucking disease |
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| 21:32.35 | DammitJim | that sounds very fast |
| 21:32.56 | jelly | !next |
| 21:32.57 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 21:33.08 | ikarosuusi | oh and BTW |
| 21:33.15 | ikarosuusi | nice way of flooding the chat with NON ANSWERS |
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| 21:33.27 | jelly | ha |
| 21:33.39 | joepublic | So next I would wonder if the sshd is using more cpu than expected |
| 21:33.56 | DammitJim | joepublic, but cpu looks quiet |
| 21:34.07 | DammitJim | dammit... this might not be a debian problem but a hardware issue?!!! |
| 21:34.24 | DammitJim | man... or my router... thanks joepublic ... off-topic |
| 21:34.44 | joepublic | I am just guessing things to look at, tbh |
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| 21:40.10 | watchcat | you can check your end with a public net speed test. you can check the route to their public ip with a ping. if those are good, it's a problem with their lan or their server inside the lan. |
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| 21:45.53 | fassl | DammitJim, do you have the problem with every account? i remember having slow login with a specific user, iirc it was some pam issue |
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| 21:47.46 | star314 | Hi! I would like to setup an apt cache. Which one should I prefer apt-cacher-ng, approx, or apt-proxy? |
| 21:48.56 | somiaj | star314: might depend on usecase, but if unsure, start with apt-cacher-ng. |
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| 21:53.49 | star314 | somiaj: Well, I have here about 20 Debian machines, about 10 Ubuntu machines, and 3 Mint machines. In order to save bandwidth, I would like to setup a cache for all three distributions. apt-cacher-ng seems nice because it is possible to integrate DVD isos in the cache pool. |
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| 21:54.17 | star314 | s/in/into |
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| 21:55.47 | DammitJim | thanks fassl |
| 21:55.49 | DammitJim | thanks joepublic |
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| 21:56.35 | nickgaw | Hi, Is there a way to copy the files needed for an installation like a net installation to an usb flash drive and run syslinux to make the device bootable? |
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| 21:57.10 | joepublic | as opposed to copying the netinstall image to a usb stick? |
| 21:57.28 | nickgaw | can I do that and make it bootable? |
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| 21:58.35 | joepublic | I don't know how to build one by hand as you describe; I was talking about copying one of the pre-built official netinstall isos to a usb stick with something like dd. |
| 21:59.06 | nickgaw | ok and that will boot? |
| 21:59.25 | joepublic | yes, the official images are designed to boot usb or cd/dvd equally well |
| 22:00.57 | nickgaw | ok I was mainly talking about mounting the iso image and then copying it directly by copying files then running some boot loader but you are saying just dd the image over? |
| 22:00.58 | watchcat | nickgaw: cp image.iso /dev/sdX |
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| 22:01.27 | watchcat | as root |
| 22:01.46 | joepublic | yes nickgaw. https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/amd64/ch04s03.html.en |
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| 22:16.25 | nickgaw | Is it true that running linux on a mac book pro late model 2011 can destroy the computers insides? |
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| 22:17.30 | RoyK | nickgaw: I utterly doubt it |
| 22:17.53 | hyperlumic | nickgaw: Where did you hear that? |
| 22:18.07 | ntd | ask Branes in #mac |
| 22:18.20 | joepublic | it makes the insides love free software, perhaps, and when they see apple mac os again, they rebel against its walled garden non-free design |
| 22:18.24 | nickgaw | That is what I also thought it was probably someone who used only Apple products and wanted to tell the world that other operating systems are not safe. |
| 22:18.40 | ntd | actually, it will eat away at the hw but only marginally more than from the actual use itself |
| 22:18.46 | ntd | more so even |
| 22:18.54 | hyperlumic | nickgaw: I used to be an Apple engineer. I ran Linux on my Macs. |
| 22:19.11 | nickgaw | and did the systems over cook? |
| 22:19.11 | hyperlumic | nickgaw: So take that for what you will. |
| 22:19.28 | hyperlumic | nickgaw: No more than OS X did until heavy GPU load. |
| 22:19.36 | hyperlumic | s/until/under/ |
| 22:20.21 | nickgaw | so if I run very strong loads like rebuilding a kernel and other processes it can cause the system to burn itself up? |
| 22:20.37 | hyperlumic | That is literally the opposite of what I said. |
| 22:20.52 | joepublic | nickgaw, there are only a certain number of ways to straight-up say "no, that's stupid" |
| 22:21.00 | hyperlumic | I was trying to be nice, but joe said it. |
| 22:21.12 | nickgaw | I understand your points. |
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| 22:22.24 | nickgaw | Can grub boot both mac and Debian if the mac has file volt encryption? |
| 22:22.36 | hyperlumic | s/volt/vault/ |
| 22:23.10 | hyperlumic | And I have no idea. I never dual-booted. |
| 22:23.19 | annadane | that's the spirit. |
| 22:23.38 | nickgaw | yes file vault does grub support that or will I have to turn it off? |
| 22:23.39 | somiaj | nickgaw: are you using uefi to boot? |
| 22:23.48 | nickgaw | yes |
| 22:24.08 | nickgaw | what ever Apple uses. |
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| 22:24.47 | somiaj | not quite sure on apple, they tend to do things a bit different, but I find with uefi, grub isn't that important. I actually use my firmware to decide which efi file to boot from and just avoid grub for dual booting windows these days. |
| 22:25.12 | hyperlumic | 2011 models should more or less work without EFI issues. |
| 22:25.28 | hyperlumic | I forget the on-disk structure, though. |
| 22:25.40 | nickgaw | So should I install grub? it uses gpt. |
| 22:26.03 | hyperlumic | Yes, something has to boot Debian. |
| 22:26.19 | hyperlumic | If there's already an ESP - and there should be - just use that. Don't create a second ESP. |
| 22:26.48 | nickgaw | So should grub support both booting mac and debian? |
| 22:27.02 | hyperlumic | No. GRUB will boot Debian. The Mac EFI loader will continue to boot macOS. |
| 22:27.12 | hyperlumic | Far as I remember, anyway. |
| 22:27.15 | somiaj | there are simplier efi boot manager tools than grub, with efi you odn't need a full boot loader like grub, though I use it, since i'm acustom to it. |
| 22:27.44 | nickgaw | So when the system turns on what will happen and how do I switch operating systems? |
| 22:27.49 | ntd | yes, there is no need for aaany verbosity with the bootloader |
| 22:27.58 | ntd | just ask crapple |
| 22:28.06 | somiaj | you could configure grub to be in charge of both, I'm just pointing out with uefi there is no need to, and it tends to be easier to just point your firmware at the correct efi file to boot from. |
| 22:28.29 | nickgaw | How do I do that on the mac? |
| 22:28.39 | hyperlumic | Hold down (I think) option while powering on. |
| 22:28.41 | somiaj | and then you don't have to worry about any issues with priorpority boot loaders like apple's. |
| 22:29.11 | somiaj | nickgaw: might depend on the actuall apple. There were a few generations that could only boot form a single uefi file (which was annoying and would require you use grub), I'm hoping more moder apples allow you to pick which efi file to boot from. |
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| 22:29.27 | somiaj | i.e. it would only boot from BOOT64.efi or something like that. |
| 22:29.43 | nickgaw | So install grub in the partition's so when it prompts me what to do what should I choose? |
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| 22:30.33 | nickgaw | I am of course going to back everything up so will lose nothing. |
| 22:30.48 | somiaj | if using uefi, just point it at the current efi partition. |
| 22:31.29 | nickgaw | holding down option is how you choose what to boot would that work for Debian or mac? |
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| 22:33.58 | sjmulder | hi all. I've set export PS1='`hostname -s`\$ ' in .profile but mksh (my default shell) nor bash are picking it up. if I do "source .profile" it works |
| 22:34.27 | sjmulder | according to the mksh manpage ~/.profile is read on startup so what am I missing here? |
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| 22:35.46 | somiaj | sjmulder: man bash (read the difference between login and interactive shells) |
| 22:36.04 | somiaj | only login shells will source .profile or .bash_profile, interactive shells will source .bashrc |
| 22:36.19 | sjmulder | somiaj, I'm using mksh primarily, there the statup files section is short and specifically mentions reading .profile |
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| 22:36.51 | sjmulder | I'll try with bash with bashrc though just to see |
| 22:37.00 | somiaj | if you don't need a differnce between the two, you can source one from the other. In my .profile I have, http://paste.debian.net/1053933/, and then put everythign in .bashrc |
| 22:37.22 | somiaj | ahh, I'm not familar with mksh, it might have the same distinction between login and interactive shells. |
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| 22:40.29 | somiaj | sjmulder: it seems according to the mksh man page I found online, there is a difference between login and interactive shells, interactive shells would only source ~/.mkshrc, so put it there |
| 22:40.44 | somiaj | then maybe add some .logic that sources that file if using .mkshrc in .profile if you don't want to distinguish between the two. |
| 22:40.50 | sjmulder | somiaj, yeah I think I misread the manual |
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| 22:41.38 | sjmulder | so things like PATH, where should that go? |
| 22:42.05 | somiaj | interactive shells might pull in $PATH from the current login shell |
| 22:42.08 | sjmulder | because those are for interactive as well as noninteractive shells |
| 22:42.26 | sjmulder | not PS1? I mean apparently not but how would one know? |
| 22:42.28 | somiaj | though my approach was to just not distinguish between the two (as I don't need to), so I use that code in .profile to source .bashrc |
| 22:42.43 | somiaj | yea, you may want your prompt to look different in login vs interavtive shells (to tell you the difference) |
| 22:43.10 | sjmulder | hmm, my .profile PATH didn't make it in either |
| 22:43.34 | somiaj | well you would have to completely out (so the PATH is set in your login shell) and then see if it is inherited correctly |
| 22:43.59 | somiaj | i.e. interactive shells will inherit some enviorment variables form th elogin shell that spawned it |
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| 22:44.37 | somiaj | but it won't get the changes until you logout/reloginto your mian login shell |
| 22:44.51 | sjmulder | okay so now I have (only!) .profile with PATH and PS1 set. on a TTY it works as expected, in Xfce Terminal both seem unaffected |
| 22:45.20 | somiaj | though I would do something like if [ -n "$SOMEMKSH_VAR"]; then source "$HOME/.mkshrc"; fi, and put all stuff in .mkshrc |
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| 22:45.21 | sjmulder | and this was the initial situation |
| 22:45.30 | sjmulder | ah |
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| 22:45.49 | somiaj | you may need to logout of xfce and restart your display manager, so the login shell that xfce initially launches inherits the right path |
| 22:46.09 | sjmulder | but this was the situation already when I booted the PC |
| 22:46.11 | somiaj | though again I don't actually do this, as I don't really have a reason to distnighuish between the two types of shells (though I assume there is a good reason to be able to do this) |
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| 22:48.15 | sjmulder | would it make sense to set ENV=~/.profile ? seems like that would yield the desired effect, because like you I don't really care about the distinction |
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| 22:48.48 | somiaj | I woudln't |
| 22:49.02 | somiaj | I would just source one from the other, and maybe add a bit lof logic so only mksh does this, on second |
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| 22:49.52 | sjmulder | ah right. sourcing .profile from .mksh does the trick and now I understand why too |
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| 22:50.24 | somiaj | seems there is a $KSH_VERSION (double check please, echo $KSH_VERSION returns something when running mksh?) |
| 22:50.25 | sjmulder | on my initial reading of the manpage I was confused about the meaning of login vs interactive shells |
| 22:50.48 | sjmulder | yeah, that variable is set |
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| 22:51.29 | sjmulder | but as I don't do any ksh-specific stuff in .profile there's no problem just sourcing it from .mkshrc right? no checks needed then |
| 22:51.38 | somiaj | I would put something like this, http://paste.debian.net/1053934/, in your .profile, then put all your shell stuff in ~/.mkshrc, and that file will be sorced either for login or inteactive shells. |
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| 22:51.48 | somiaj | yea no problem if you don't have special stuff for that shell |
| 22:52.20 | sjmulder | I see, thanks. got it all working nicely now |
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| 22:52.39 | sjmulder | and more importantly, understanding why |
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| 22:57.49 | jhutchins | Installer keeps looping back to Install Base Packages on Graphical Expert Install. We're on the third run now. Next thing to try is the non-graphical Expert Install. |
| 22:58.22 | somiaj | jhutchins: could the medium you are installing from have some corruption/error? Or the medium you are installing to, causing the copy to error out and the installer to try again? |
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| 23:02.40 | jhutchins | I think it's probably something I'm doing wrong. |
| 23:03.32 | jhutchins | First time I didn't have network, so I may have picked some wrong setting to get around it. Second time I had to leave for work, and it may have gotten bumped back to that step. |
| 23:04.07 | jhutchins | The thing is that debootsttrap fails to overwrite a previous run. |
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| 23:05.59 | jhutchins | Made it to "Select and install...". |
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| 23:06.22 | somiaj | so you aren't reformatting your install partition each time? |
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| 23:08.58 | jelly | (how) can I tell sort to stop sorting at specific key and if the lines have identical values in the sort key, keep the original order? eg. printf "1 c\n1 b\n0 a\n"|sort -k1n ... should NOT order "1 b" before "1 c" |
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| 23:12.29 | Ede|Popede | jelly: never did it myseld i think, but: KEYDEF is F[.C][OPTS][,F[.C][OPTS]] for start and stop position |
| 23:12.34 | Ede|Popede | at least for GNU sort |
| 23:13.07 | Ede|Popede | with OPTS being ordering options [bdfgiMhnRrV] |
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| 23:15.10 | mebus | Hi! Why does nftables say: "zsh: parse error near `}'" !? |
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| 23:17.06 | mebus | ah... it's a shell problem :-P |
| 23:17.55 | somiaj | well I think it is a problem with the script |
| 23:18.15 | somiaj | and the shell is erring out due to not being able to parse things correctly |
| 23:18.40 | somiaj | (though such a thing could occur if script is written for bash and you are using zsh) |
| 23:18.44 | Ede|Popede | hm. only sort seems to ignore the stop signal |
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| 23:22.15 | mebus | ok. How do I make nftables rules persistent? |
| 23:22.59 | bites | jelly: sort -k1n -s |
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| 23:23.56 | bites | "The --stable (-s) option disables this last-resort comparison so that lines in which all fields compare equal are left in their original relative order." |
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| 23:24.33 | jelly | !win bites |
| 23:24.33 | dpkg | Congratulations, bites! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120! |
| 23:24.54 | bites | thanks, i hate it. |
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| 23:25.15 | RoyK | wonders how many interesting viruses that would be included in such a set ;) |
| 23:25.49 | InvisibleRasta | is buster a good option fo rmy laptop or shall i stay on stretch? is it stable enought to be used as daily without any issues? |
| 23:26.07 | jelly | if it was stable enough it would be released. |
| 23:26.17 | jelly | and called stable, literally |
| 23:26.22 | InvisibleRasta | i see |
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| 23:26.53 | jelly | but it's not called stable. It's called testing. That means it's not stable yet. |
| 23:26.57 | RoyK | InvisibleRasta: it all depends on how much you want the newest and fanciest stuff |
| 23:27.02 | RoyK | !sns |
| 23:27.02 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 23:27.20 | annadane | anecdotally people have used testing and unstable fine. and then further anecdotally they've also run into problems. stable comes with more of a guarantee; if you want to use your computer for work and not fixing stuff when it breaks, use stretch |
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| 23:27.45 | InvisibleRasta | yeah i like stretch |
| 23:27.46 | annadane | it probably has what you want |
| 23:27.50 | jelly | have two computers and break them one at a time |
| 23:27.57 | koollman | people also have used stable and run into problems. But less often ;) |
| 23:28.00 | InvisibleRasta | even tho im using an unofficial DE.. still havent had any weird things happening |
| 23:28.14 | annadane | new stuff is overrated for the most part |
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| 23:28.48 | hyperlumic | !sns |
| 23:28.48 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 23:28.57 | annadane | was already posted. ^ |
| 23:29.13 | RoyK | hyperlumic: one minute before you ;) |
| 23:29.32 | hyperlumic | Doh! |
| 23:29.34 | annadane | (or if you are going to use stuff pick a distro which specializes in new stuff. by all means use testing or sid if you want to file bugs to make debian stable better, though) |
| 23:29.41 | annadane | use new stuff* |
| 23:29.58 | somiaj | InvisibleRasta: a lot depends on use case, buster is getting more and more relaible (and will freeze early next year I belive) so if you need newer software or want to test the newer features, it works fairly well. It does lack security support and depending on software you use, have very grave bugs. |
| 23:30.16 | annadane | transition freeze is january and i think soft freeze is march IIRC |
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| 23:31.06 | annadane | there are exceptions to what i said but if you have to ask "i need something good enough for general purposes" just use stable and save the headache |
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| 23:32.53 | InvisibleRasta | yeah i am on stabl ein fact and like it alot. havent had any issues except the install part. |
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| 23:34.25 | watchcat | run a buster guest vm on a stretch host. bobw. |
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| 23:34.37 | annadane | bobw...? |
| 23:35.03 | watchcat | best of both worlds. |
| 23:35.06 | annadane | ah |
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| 23:35.48 | InvisibleRasta | watchcat, with vmware? |
| 23:36.06 | watchcat | qemu/kvm preferably. |
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| 23:36.20 | somiaj | qemu-kvm is a nice way to run vms on linux, built into the kernel, no extra modules (and not needing nonfree software like vmware) |
| 23:36.30 | annadane | i use virt-manager for virtualization. it's fine. |
| 23:36.32 | InvisibleRasta | and virtualbox? |
| 23:36.51 | annadane | despite my utter hopelessness and stupidity with understanding general virtualization concepts |
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| 23:37.00 | watchcat | same probs as vmware. |
| 23:37.05 | somiaj | virtualbox is okay, it is basically free software (though lives in contrib), biggiest issue I have with it (besides being controlled by oracle) is needing a thrid party module. |
| 23:37.20 | somiaj | virtualbox is at least almost free, unlike vmware |
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| 23:37.35 | somiaj | well virtualbox is fully free (just requires non free to build the bios) |
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| 23:39.40 | watchcat | rarely is one method better in about every way, but qemu/kvm qualifies. and like annadane said, virt-manager makes using it easy. |
| 23:39.58 | annadane | it has its own shell called virsh |
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| 23:40.30 | annadane | but yeah, i like virt-manager. once you understand how to use it it becomes less baffling, like everything i suppose |
| 23:40.33 | InvisibleRasta | ah virt-manager is a gui frontend to quemu kvm |
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| 23:40.37 | annadane | indeed |
| 23:41.01 | InvisibleRasta | nice |
| 23:42.15 | InvisibleRasta | ill give it a shot |
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| 23:50.22 | InvisibleRasta | annadane, have you seen this error in virt-manager http://dpaste.com/1RQ93AB |
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| 23:50.55 | annadane | don't know, what are you trying to do? |
| 23:51.34 | InvisibleRasta | creating a VM |
| 23:52.03 | annadane | ask someone smarter like anyone else in this room :P i'm a dummy |
| 23:52.06 | annadane | anyone know? |
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| 23:55.22 | InvisibleRasta | i might have to start some service? |
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| 23:55.33 | InvisibleRasta | i jsut isntalled virt manager and tried to make a vm |
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| 23:57.39 | annadane | what i do with virt-manager from a fresh install is: 1) add my user to the kvm libvirt and libvirt-qemu groups, modprobe -r kvm-intel modprobe -r kvm (i have an intel processor), modprobe kvm kvm-intel, that tends to make it work |
| 23:58.10 | annadane | otherwise i get strange user permission errors |
| 23:58.58 | InvisibleRasta | allright i did that |
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| 23:59.11 | InvisibleRasta | i have to reboot i think |
| 23:59.17 | InvisibleRasta | for the user group changes |
| 23:59.26 | annadane | that's why the modprobe -r and modprobe steps, so you don't have to |
| 23:59.47 | jelly | InvisibleRasta, just log off and back on for group memberships |
| 23:59.57 | InvisibleRasta | oki |
