IRC log for #debian on 20181203

00:00.44*** join/#debian debsan (~debsan@186.139.232.156)
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00:00.46makewayHey, I'm really looking for some help getting vsync working here. I'm running stretch with xfce on an Acer laptop with a Nvidia GT 730M. I'm gonna explain what I've tried so far.
00:01.07spacedusti see no session in sddm or lightdm or slim login manager , i tried these 3, what could i check for ?
00:02.13makewayI'm running the 390 drivers from stretch-backports. I have Nvidia Optimus set up based on the instructions in the arch wiki page about it.
00:03.11makewayI have tried the nvidia-settings options to "ForceCompositionPipeline" and "ForceFullCompositionPipeline" which both seem to be the main recommendations.
00:03.47makewayI have tried compton configured with glx backend and "opengl-swc" vsync
00:04.03makewayI have tried several answers in this thread https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2374405
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00:04.51makewayThe first and last things I tried always make it so lightdm never loads.
00:05.00spacedusthahh im missing /usr/bin/startkde ... pfff ... too many changed on my box :) its messed up :)
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00:05.37makewayI have to alt+ctrl+f1 to get to a terminal and reset the changes (whether they were an xorg.conf file or something from that ubuntu thread)
00:05.42spacedusti dont have a startkde anymore ?
00:05.52hypn0why replace the login spacedust
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00:06.10makewayAll those messages explain my problem as best I can. I hope someone can help my try some more stuff.
00:08.01spacedusthypn0: i just tried was thinking that the problem :)
00:08.07spacedusthypn0: i change it back now to sddm
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00:08.47spacedusthypn0: i now see that i have exec /usr/bin/startkde in .xsession of the user i login to
00:08.54spacedustbut im missing /usr/bin/startkde :)
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00:09.30spacedusthypn0: im also missing /usr/share/xsessions
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00:09.37spacedusthypn0: could you tell me how to start kde ?
00:10.08hypn0use openbox :-) no
00:10.15spacedustpfff
00:10.19hypn0startkde?
00:10.27spacedusti dont have startkde command !
00:10.34spacedustmissing that
00:10.56spacedusti will admit im on unstable :)
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00:11.07hypn0kdestart?
00:11.11spacedustbut i just wanted to migrate my system
00:11.19spacedustnope no kdestart neither
00:11.27spacedustand foolishly did an update :(
00:11.35spacedusti need stuff from kde and from X
00:11.37hypn0https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=152908
00:11.42aaiiHi, I have problem now in choosing laptop for programming and Data Science  & ML and using GNU/Linux Debian. I cant choice between Dell xps 13 developer edition running Ubuntu  and Thinkpad T470
00:11.43spacedustim on terminal :)
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00:12.14spacedustaaii: xps laptops are nice last time i seen , not sure about that t470
00:12.20spacedusthypn0: what does it say ?
00:12.42spacedusti could open it in links if i could copy the link
00:13.15hypn0a lot of stuff abt sddm
00:13.16aaiispacedust, I think they are too thin and maybe i break xps and really i hate ubuntu :D
00:13.49spacedusthypn0: reading it, but my problem is not related to sddm
00:14.03awal1dpkg: asleep?
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00:14.03dpkgextra, extra, read all about it, asleep is some wacko Free Software zelot.
00:14.04crippledmonkI'm using a fully rugged older GD8000 with stretch. touch and gps work also
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00:14.28makewayWhat are some of the specific things you're comparing between the two?
00:14.34makewayLikeSOrry
00:14.34hypn0The first thing that comes to mind is that the initial display manager theme used when nobody is logged in ?
00:14.41makewayOops, that as late
00:14.45dtuxdoes anyone know if there is an RFP/ITP for docker-ce?
00:14.48spacedustaaii: then pick the other one ? :)
00:15.44hypn0My issue lay in sddm.service - it wasn't enabled. After enabling it, sddm does what it suppose to - starts its log in screen on startup. Pretty simple?
00:16.17makewayaaii: I can definitely vouch for the T470
00:16.26makewayaaii: What are some of the specific things you're comparing?
00:16.28aaiispacedust, i dont know really  which one, for that i asked. But XPS have quad core and T470 have 2 core
00:17.46makewayaaii: I could have sworn the T470 had a model with quad core.
00:17.50makewayThe t480 does at least.
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00:18.26aaiimakeway, T470 have 4 core?
00:18.48makewayI thought there was a configuration that had it, yeah. Idk, I'm probably wrong if you couldn't find one though.
00:18.52spacedusthypn0: no im missing the startkde file ! and the /usr/share/xsessions directory
00:19.35aaiimakeway, https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Anti-Glare-Dual-Core-Fingerprint-Thunderbolt/dp/B07GNSK6B3/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1543796355&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=T470&psc=1
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00:20.18makewayWhich xps 13 release are you comparing?
00:20.22makewayIs there a large price difference?
00:21.07aaiimakeway, this : https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-13-9370-laptop/cax13w10p2c604ubuntus?prg=1&VEN1=10549103-6361382-trd-8051323926154065233&cjevent=ad57edb9f68c11e8821903dc0a24060b&dgc=BF&DGSeg=BSD&cid=198376&lid=45675&acd=12309198376456750&VEN3=830404162446967633#carousel-example-with-caption
00:21.15aaiisorry :|
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00:22.46makewayI personally own a t480 and I've loved it since I bought it. That said, that xps 13 looks like the better option of those two.
00:23.00makewayI really like thinkpad's quality, but I've only heard good things about the recent xps's as well
00:23.07makewaySo yeah, that's all I know aaii
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00:24.11makewayhttps://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T480-Business-Laptop/dp/B07H3CYD62/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1543796616&sr=8-2&keywords=t480
00:24.12makewayThere's this
00:24.15aaiimakeway, so between this xps and t470 i should buy which one? :D
00:24.28makewayBetween those two, I'd recommend the xps
00:25.29makewayI don't have that much experience, but I spent a good few months researching laptops before choosing my thinkpad. One of the xps's was pretty much the only other option when I got done with all the comparison
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00:30.04spacedustso how can i fix missing /usr/bin/startkde ?
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00:31.00Svetathis is not a part of any package according to https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=%2Fusr%2Fbin%2Fstartkde&mode=exactfilename&suite=stable&arch=any
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00:33.07spacedustcan anyone paste startkde ?
00:33.26spacedustSveta: wow
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00:33.42spacedustSveta: i remember doing something to make it work last time :)
00:33.51spacedustSveta: probably heavily modded :)
00:34.02spacedustSveta: so how do i go about starting kde then ?
00:34.58akkapt-file search startkde says it's in plasma-workspace
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00:35.17spacedustakk: can i reinstall that ?
00:35.29akkspacedust: Why not?
00:35.46spacedustakk: huhhh apt remove plasma-workspace no such package
00:35.49spacedustniiiice :)
00:36.11akkOh, I'm on testing, stable might be different.
00:36.12spacedust53 new installed for apt install plasma-workspace :) lol nicely upgraded it ...
00:36.26spacedustim on unstable ...
00:36.37spacedustwant to migrate away just need my stuff from plasma :)
00:37.01spacedustapparently im missing plasma-workspace and 53 packages
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00:37.33spacedustokay well i installed it and what do you know startkde is ther e:)
00:37.42akkThat's normal for KDE stuff. Every time I think about trying some KDE app it turns out I'd need to install 87 dependencies.
00:37.58spacedustbut i had working kde when i upgraded :)
00:38.01akkIt's too bad since some of their apps are apparently pretty good.
00:38.08spacedusti did do a blind autoremove
00:38.19spacedustsomehow plasma-workspace got removed apparently
00:39.51spacedustwell now started plasma but nothing happening , i got a message All shell packages missing or something
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00:40.31spacedustgreat i have a nonworking system :(
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00:41.01amikot40Hello Everyone :)
00:41.07spacedusthmm cant start chromium
00:41.09makewayHey amikot40!
00:42.17spacedustwell , maybe lxde will help :)
00:42.39amikot40I know that this is not exactly proper channel for my question, but I have debian on my PC, and know that this comunity has more knowledge than any other. So ...
00:42.40ph0spacedust
00:42.52ph0have you tried aptitude install ~t^kde-desktop$
00:42.57spacedustno
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00:43.59spacedustph0: i have a kali + some other repos + unstable + frankendeb :) just need some stuff from this system and need to install a new one this one got messed up hard now :) its not my only OS but i need stuff from it :)
00:44.13amikot40I did set zerotier-one up on my linux router (DD-WRT). It is running as should - apart of one thing. I can ping other machines from routers ash, but I cant ping the router from other machines. Not answering on any port. On desktop it works as should, but on router it doesnt.
00:44.15spacedustph0: that command : 0 packages upgraded, 293 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
00:44.31spacedustNeed to get 134 MB/146 MB of archives. After unpacking 586 MB will be used.
00:44.37spacedustguess i autoremoved kde :)
00:45.13amikot40So basically my qustion is - how to diagnose what is blocking communication between zerotier network interface and router ? Maybe I should set a link or firewall rule ?
00:45.16ph0that installs the task kde-desktop so, it should be complete when it finished with no problems
00:45.46amikot40Is there way to trace, why signal is not comming trough ?
00:46.10spacedustph0: thanks im running it , lets see ill let you know, meanwhile i also installed lxde, but even if it works, hope so, i will get stuff i need and migrate to debian stable :)
00:47.50amikot40Im asking here because people on zerotier-one and dd-wrt channels seems to know nothing. And people on general #linux channel are not very interested to talk about technical issues.
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00:48.28makewayHope someone who knows what you're up to can talk to you about it amikot40.
00:48.29ph0spacedust, maybe you encounter less problems doing dpkg --get-selections
00:48.42ph0dpkg --get-selections > installed_packages
00:48.42dpkgselects ph0's ultra-s3kr3t collection
00:49.08ph0ant later dpkg --set-selections < installed_packages from a fresh install
00:49.16ph0but pff , good luck xD
00:51.04spacedustph0: thank you very much system back as it was :) cool thanks thanks
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00:53.24amikot40makeway, hopefully - thing is that since week im trying to google solution, but there is nothing realy helpful, and to be honest, I even can't invent good query to google, as problem is complicated.
00:54.03ph0amikot40
00:54.28amikot40zerotier-one support is blaming dd-wrt guys, and sending to them, and vice versa - dd-wrt people say that its zerotier-one issue :D
00:54.41ph0have you checked what happens on layer2 between 2 machines?
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00:55.18ph0with arping
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01:14.00nyovamikot40: you can't ping the dd-wrt router? is icmp firewalled?
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01:14.52nyovif the router has a firewall and it drops icmp ping packets, you could try to tcp-ping
01:15.22amikot40I switched the firewall off and now I can ping
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01:40.21*** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.6 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
01:40.47nyovwell. never know, could have been a systemd variant for doing it. haha
01:40.57ph0sysctl net.ipv4.ip_forward=0
01:41.06ph0sysctl net.ipv6.conf.all.forwarding=0
01:41.11ph0;,)
01:41.16ph0too late here XD
01:41.55ph0but
01:42.01amikot40but I doesn't want to touch real WAN ... I just want VPN be visible as LAN and not filtered by firewall
01:43.03ph0well, what i've read
01:43.09amikot40now router is setting VPN as WAN - so it is behind its massive firewalls and who know what else
01:44.17ph0but the thing is
01:44.24ph0all th eleements should be a zerotier client
01:44.31ph0so when you want to communicate
01:44.36ph0A with B
01:45.04ph0it tries to do a direct link, ifnot it goes to the upper root and search for a link forwarding packages between them
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01:45.56ph0maybe your router is considered a root element and the computer ur trying to make the ping from has another root
01:46.28ph0I promise, ill take a fonera tomorrow and try it xD
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01:50.12amikot40hmm PC that Im using to do test ping is in my work - so its different LAN than my home LAN.
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01:51.45amikot40for me its just annoying - WEB-UI is limiting everything. Specially that some settings are stored somewhere - nobody knows where - not in accessible filesystem.
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01:59.56awal1why 'arp-scan2 list connected devices that 'nast' won't list? :(
02:01.36awal1why 'arp-scan' lists connected devices with there corresponding mac addresses that 'nast' won't list? :(
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02:02.34awal1"nast -m" vs "arp-scan --interface=wlan0 --localnet"
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02:07.07thatpythonguywhat is the best method to install a package from 'stable' on a 'testing' system? apt-pinning?
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02:14.23ozzloyshould i do 'shopt bla bla' in .bashrc as opposed to .profile?
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02:50.39noahmg123I have a Kali Linux VirtualBox guest that does not have internet access when configured to use a NAT Network
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03:29.05adamantiumHi, is there any easy way to install Adobe's Source Code Pro font?
03:29.58adamantiumI never thought i'd join a channel for such a basic thing
03:30.24adamantiumAnd for boasting so many packages, I can't believe I can't find it?
03:32.42nyovhow can I sepcify an SSH identity from my ssh agent to send for authentication?
03:33.51nyovlike "ssh -i /path/to/id_dsa user@server", but not using a filename but a forwarded agent identity
03:33.58nyovis that possible?
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03:51.18SerajewelKSnyov: why is that necessary?
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03:51.59nyovSerajewelKS: because otherwise I run into "Too many authentication failures" if it tries every key in my (forwarded) agent
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03:54.08nyovnow ssh -vv has a nice listing of my agent's keys, like "debug2: key: /home/nyov/.ssh/id_rsa (0x7f3579ab8fb3), agent", but the filename is obviously not available on the remote, and that hexmagic is not accepted as filename
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04:03.03nyovfckin a! i guess i'll need to instance another agent with handpicked keys for that tunnel
04:03.17unomystEzI managed to get grub to disable in text via /etc/default/grub but once the kernel boots it's going into 1024x768 mode, is there a way to force text only?
04:03.26unomystEzs/disable/display/
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04:06.00nyovunomystEz: I think that is "GRUB_TERMINAL=console"
04:06.40unomystEznyov: I set that but after boot it's still modesetting into 1024x768
04:06.55nyovusing efi?
04:06.58unomystEzGRUB_TERMINAL=console worked for grub just not after loading the kernel
04:07.00unomystEzno
04:07.18unomystEzI'm actually booting in qemu
04:07.18nyovah, you're in the kernel not in grub anymore
04:07.22unomystEzcorrect
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04:07.50nyovthen it's a kernel thing. get rid of plymouth I think?
04:08.10nyovor do you mean you have a fb text console
04:09.01unomystEzcorrect, I believe it's an fb text console
04:09.12unomystEzcould be caused by plymouth I suppose
04:09.33nyovso you have something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_console#/media/File:Knoppix-3.8-boot.png but want "real" text?
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04:10.47nyovanyway I don't know the answer to that
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04:15.13unomystEzok I got it, was video=vesafb:off for kernel cmdline
04:15.19nyovnice
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04:24.16YorlikHello! Anyone here having experience with Kubernetes on stretch? I installed Docker and Kubernetes from the stretch backports and everytime I start the kubelet service after some minutes the server reboots - nothing significant in the logs, no kernel panic, nothing. I am using a xen enabled kernel, since I used to run xen guests, but we want to use containers instead of VMs as much as possible now.
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04:54.12lexiyntaxadamantium: https://wiki.debian.org/Fonts#Manually as only a small subset of the world's fonts are packaged as a practical matter as there are so many; for the rest it's just a matter of copying files into these paths.
04:54.31iodotis it possible to run the intel graphics driver natively (without kms)
04:55.17iodotim debugging some thing, and i can't seem to get x working with nomodeset kernel parameter. i even tried adding the i915 module to /etc/modprobe.d/
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07:09.20samba35do i have to install/configure virtio drivers in guest/windows to make use of memory balloon ?
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08:04.20iodotis there a channel for debian testing related questions?
08:05.06SpeedyG!testing
08:05.07dpkgTesting is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <buster>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <jessie->stretch> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical!
08:05.11SpeedyG^ iodot
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08:05.35iodotthanks
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08:13.46iodotcan one expect better performance on intel graphics (hd 630) switing to kernel 4.20?
08:13.58iodotswitching*
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09:04.36ChrisHLaptop inside Dockingstation with USB connection from Dockingstation to external monitor. USB Keyboard is connected to Monitor. In grub the keyboard is usable and most times during boot-up while entering the keyphrase I need to re-plug the keyboard to get it working. What could I have the keyboard working during keyphrase request without re-plugging? Debian Stretch.
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09:43.51oojacobo_Can someone please help with using `screen`.  This seems to be the most difficult linux daemon I've ever used
09:44.13oojacobooI'm currently getting the error `Must be connected to a terminal.`
09:44.29oojacobooI've tried executing the command with `-m -d` as stated all over the net
09:44.40oojacobooI've tried using `ssh -t` to get a TTY
09:45.11JustASlackerwhy not tmux
09:45.23oojacoboois that like screen?
09:45.28JustASlackeryes, except better
09:45.32oojacoboohmm
09:45.40colo-workit's definitely hipper
09:45.44oojacobooha
09:45.46jellyoojacoboo: screen is not a daemon at all.  What are you trying to achieve?
09:46.06oojacobooI just want to execute this command in a screen b/c the internet here in Egypt is shit
09:46.11oojacobooand my db import keeps failing
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09:46.27themilloojacoboo: are you also changing user?
09:46.32oojacoboono
09:46.49JustASlackerif you are logged in, simple typing "screen" should just work
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09:47.09oojacoboo`screen` just returns back to a prompt
09:47.11oojacoboo`screen -list` shows nothing
09:47.12jellyoojacoboo: what's the _exact_ command line you're using?
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09:47.49oojacobooscreen -dm -x  gunzip < db-prepared.sql.gz | mysql -h foo.test.com -u userdude -p dbname
09:48.12oojacobooI've tried a variety of flags, so mostly ignore those on screen
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09:49.13jellyoojacoboo:  get rid of -x.  quote the whole thing after -dm
09:49.21oojacoboookay, testing
09:50.01jellyand preferably use a unique session name to figure out which session is running which stuff
09:50.08jelly$ ssh twilight.nn screen -dmS newsession 'sleep 60'
09:50.19oojacobooyea, I removed that bit - had that there
09:50.32oojacoboothis seems to work but mysql -p requires input
09:50.45oojacobooI guess I need to reattach to input
09:50.47JustASlackerwhy so complicated
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09:50.57oojacoboogood question
09:51.02JustASlackerjust open a session with screen, do what you need to do
09:51.22oojacoboohow do I do that?
09:51.26JustASlackerthat you get a prompt after typing screen is whats supposed to happen
09:51.29oojacoboojust `screen`?
09:51.34JustASlackeryes
09:51.36oojacobooor `screen -S name`
09:51.43JustASlackernames are a good idea
09:51.44oojacoboohmm
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09:52.39oojacobooI see JustASlacker
09:54.09oojacobooperfect thanks guys - now I can use PV as well without getting ascii scrolling the terminal in an uncontrollable fashion
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09:54.44oojacoboofor some reason PV combined with a screen command I was using basically locked my out of the terminal with an endless pile of ascii pouring over like the matric
09:54.48oojacoboomatrix*
09:55.16oojacobooctrl-c wasn't responsive
09:56.02oojacoboobrb, need to pick up some water - don't trust the tap water here :)
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10:05.28oojacoboowow, 1.5L ice cold water = 25 cents :)
10:05.41oojacobooends off topic convo
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10:43.33nyovwonders when discounters will start selling fresh air
10:43.58Foxnyov: when you'll pay with fresh money
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10:53.01nyovhmm, perhaps there are still a few more trees to kill before people will pay money for air
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10:55.22n00b-usrlitteraly no trees will be left before people will pay for air, and then they die
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10:58.10jrgtrees don’t make most of the oxygen. sea algae does.
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11:10.00mirazi_hekethey, im trying to configure freeipa client on debian (manual: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/identity_management_guide/linux-manual) but im stuck on trying to login https://paste.debian.net/hidden/ece619cc/
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11:10.17mirazi_heketim on debian 8, will provide additional info/paste on request
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11:20.44jellymirazi_heket: using sssd?
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11:22.33mirazi_heketyes
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11:23.08mirazi_heketfiles configured: pam.d (common-auth and common-password), nsswitch.conf, krb5.conf, sssd.conf
11:23.19jellyadd lots of debug to your sssd.conf, restart it, and try to figure out what happens
11:23.48jelly#sssd channel might help, but be patient
11:24.12jelly(tell them versions of ipa stuff, of sssd, your distro and release)
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11:25.26mirazi_heketthanks, will try
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13:40.35samba35if i want usb drivers to be loaded as a module ,not kernel componet then how do i remove usb drivers from kernel and add to as a module
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13:53.56ychaouchehello #debian
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13:56.24linuxconformerguys how can i move a website from a running server to a virtual machine?
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13:59.01ychaoucheHow do I enable wifi in the network manager ? it seems it is greyed out and can't be enabled : https://i.imgur.com/CqoGJop.png
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14:00.07n00b-usrjrg: nice, warms my heart as a fisherman, lol
14:00.11ychaouchelinuxconformer, I heared some virtualisation software can create a virtual server out of a physical one, I think that was vmware
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14:00.47ychaoucheI think it requires some downtime though.
14:00.58themillychaouche: the one you have circled looks like mobile internet not wifi
14:01.21ychaoucheoh
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14:01.28ychaoucheis that the one on the left then ?
14:01.44ychaouchethey all have a red mark anyway
14:01.59ychaoucheas if they were disabled
14:02.31n00b-usrlinuxconformer: like a raw copy of OS + website? what distro?
14:03.07n00b-usrlol, sorry. in #debian..
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14:05.31linuxconformern00b-usr: it's a little complicated, it's contained on a server hosting dozens of other websites. Honestly maybe it's not worth doing
14:07.03themillychaouche: is there a hardware button for the device?
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14:07.17ychaouchethemill, it's a PCI card
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14:07.31RoyKlinuxconformer: vmware converter can do that, yes, but obviously, it'll lead to some downtime
14:07.32aurelhi
14:07.33ychaoucheno switch I can see on the rear of the PC where the antennas are
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14:07.53RoyKlinuxconformer: what sort of machine isthis? often, it's easier to setup a new machine (vm or not) and then move the services over
14:07.55themillychaouche: there's still quite often a kill switch
14:08.05ychaouchethemill, it has a small led light though, but it's off
14:08.15ychaouchethemill, I think it should be green when it's operating, no ?
14:08.21linuxconformerRoyK: don't have root access to most of the server, only my users's /home/<user> directory and a /www directory
14:08.29RoyK(that is, vmware converter *may* be able to do it, but not for everything)
14:08.32aurelthere is a bug on the "blender" package, shipped on 1. devember, which was already fixed by a new version available in unstable https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=915143
14:08.45aurelwhen can i expect that this package version is available in testing?
14:08.58themill!rfkill
14:09.02RoyKlinuxconformer: you'll need root access on the server to use vmware converter anyway - just setup a new one and move the services over
14:09.09themilldselect: rfkill
14:09.09dselect/dev/rfkill is the Linux rfkill (radio frequency <killswitch>) device interface, available since Linux 2.6.31.  It is used to enable and disable wireless networking devices (e.g. wireless LAN, Bluetooth, WiMAX).  The rfkill userspace tool for accessing this interface is in the rfkill package.  http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Documentation/rfkill
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14:10.03aurelor since this is broken in testing and fixed in stable,... what is a general rule of thumb how long it takes now
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14:12.10themillaurel: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/blender
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14:13.01RoyK!testing
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14:13.52themill!ping
14:13.52dpkg_Yes, themill you are either online or you are not... http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000326
14:14.03themillpoor thing forgot to identify today
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14:16.59ychaouchethemill, https://i.imgur.com/I5gSYkN.jpg
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14:17.59themillychaouche: "rfkill list" might be enlightening
14:18.19ychaouchecool ! a new command to learn :)
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14:18.41themill(what dselect said earlier)
14:18.51ychaoucherfkill list is empty
14:19.42ychaouchecould it be disabled in the bios ?
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14:23.58ychaoucheah as root
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14:24.13ychaouchestill :(
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14:25.29ychaouchestrace as root : https://gist.github.com/ychaouche/2d5b7913b025cf6b484b6ce05f6a504d
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14:25.55ychaouchemaybe I should reopen the PC and check that the card is well inserted
14:25.59ychaouchebbl
14:26.15chmdHi! quick question: can I use systemd-networkd in combination with /etc/network/interfaces?
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14:26.49chmdlike, have some interfaces managed by systemd-networkd, others by /etc/network/interfaces
14:27.03chmdor will it confuse debian?
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15:11.49MrCircuitMatthello
15:13.09MrCircuitMatton stretch, if I have auto <iface> and iface <iface> inet dhcp, and I unplug the cable and plug it back in, is it down to try to engage the DHCP client? what about allow-hotplug?
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15:13.58MrCircuitMatts/down/going to/. Alternative to that would be to just keep the interface configuration until lease renewal is due (i.e. act as if nothing happened)
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15:37.05rugshuckerI use Stretch across all my computers. Got an issue with the sources of one of them. I checked the sources list against this one and it's identical. When I try to update that one I get an error the old key not found in keyring. Like there was a typo in the sources even though clearly there isn't. I'd really like to get this fixed so I can update this machine. Not sure how long this has been an issue. I guess I have been ignoring it, so there is no
15:37.06rugshuckertelling when this machine was last properly updated.
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15:37.40joepublicwill you pastebin the error?
15:37.48rugshuckerSure
15:37.57ChrisHinclude  the command executed
15:38.08rugshuckerapt update
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15:40.29rugshuckerpaste.debian.net/1054182/
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15:41.26ChrisHrugshucker: Hint: The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.
15:41.32*** join/#debian jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@corp.cdc.nicusa.com)
15:41.34joepublicWhat does ls -l /etc/apt/trusted.gpg say?
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15:41.51a417wtf sry
15:42.35rugshuckerThat is not my uname though
15:43.40rugshuckerChrisH can I have another hint?
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15:44.33joepublicum...
15:46.09rugshuckerAlso is there something going on with the OFTC server? I couldn't connect. Tried to get freenode to work with my VPN. I think I may have that figured out by the next time I connect. So at least that is good news.
15:46.55joepublicuh huh.  so about that ls -l /etc/apt/trusted.gpg ...
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15:48.27rugshuckerUh yeah I wouldn't post my username for my computer. I have been using Linux for over 5 years now. Though in many areas I am still a novice. Pretty sure it's a bad idea to post the username though. Yeah sorry i'll get right on that.
15:49.29joepublicif that command prints your username, you probably need a reinstall.
15:49.58joepublicor at least to chown it to root and set it to 644.
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15:50.44n4dirmy username is "user". i am not so shy ...
15:51.05n4diri would even post my password ...
15:51.09joepublicI am not going to fight you to help you, I just realized.  Carry on with my apologies.
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15:52.46dmki've just bought an ssd for my aging laptop. trying to work out whether i should clone the current disk, or do a fresh install and copy, or rsync the files onto a fresh partition. anyone have any advice?
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15:53.18joepublicdmk, I have had good results with clonezilla for smaller drive to larger.
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15:53.51PPaFindmk, Always new install and rsync...
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15:54.17dmkah, i've not used that before. will it handle making the drive bootable?
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15:54.47dmkPPaFin: I'd not even considered that option... what's the benefit of the install before rsync?
15:54.49joepublicdmk, yes.  it's designed to do what you are thinking about doing.
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15:55.04dmkjoepublic: fantastic, thanks :)
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15:56.15PPaFindmk, it keeps your knowledge up - how to be able to rebuild from groundzero, and ultimately teaches you to separate data and binaries :)
15:56.48dmkahhh, that's fair enough
15:57.12dmki'm feeling a bit lazy this time i think, clonezilla is looking pretty nice
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15:57.29rugshuckerjoepublic so do you think there is something seriously wrong with the install on my other machine?
15:57.33joepublicDepending on use case, a laptop is often all binaries and no data
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15:58.26PPaFindunno, I've been doing that for ages. But feel free to clone of course..
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15:58.40ChrisHrugshucker: did you paste the requested ls -l /etc/apt/trusted.gpg somewhere?
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15:58.50rugshuckeryessir
15:58.54n4dirand after ages you still feel it "keeps your knowledge up" ?
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15:59.50rugshuckerI think this is it. Posted it earlier paste.debian.net/1054187/
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16:00.01PPaFinYep, because restoring from scratch is usefull skil, I've learned.
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16:00.35joepublicMakes sense to me.  I remember using UNIX system III in the 1980s when my beard was not grey, yet I find that I remember best the things that I keep up doing once in a while.
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16:01.19rugshuckerYeah it looks like my gpg keys are readable and writable by root. I think that's right
16:01.41joepublicrugshucker, I suggest sudo chmod 644 /etc/apt/trusted.gpg and try apt-update again.  It's not root that needs to read the file, it's the apt user.
16:01.59PPaFinjoepublic, true
16:02.08greycatIs this another synaptic bug?
16:02.51rugshuckerAny theories on hth that happened when I don't think I ever put _apt ont this machine?
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16:03.49joepublicFor a long list of users you mostly didn't put there, have a look at cat /etc/passwd|cut -d':' -f1
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16:04.22greycatUUOC
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16:05.01joepublicman you guys are always down on me because I like to use cat.
16:05.58joepublicit doesn't wear out with use :)
16:05.59n4diri for one think i learn more if i rsync an exsiting installation around, while installing and only copying config files in place seems like the more easy solution.
16:06.41rugshuckercat is pretty useful. Don't see this _apt. I will try cat /etc/passwd on this laptop.
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16:07.03joepublicrugshucker, he means that you should cut -d':' -f1 /etc/passwd instead.
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16:07.41rugshuckerSo uh what does this switch do exactly?
16:07.56*** join/#debian martian67 (~martian67@about/linux/regular/martian67)
16:08.07joepublicjust shows you the first field of the file, using : as a delimiter.  The first field is the username.
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16:09.57joepublicthe important advice was to chmod the /etc/apt/trusted.gpg to 644 and then apt update again.
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16:11.00klrhello, i am running unstable, virtualbox does not appear to be in the 'unstable' repo. what are my options?
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16:11.16xxe
16:11.28annadanei use virt-manager for virtualization stuff.
16:11.40jhutchins_wk,v virtualbox
16:11.41juddPackage: virtualbox on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1; jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-backports/contrib: 5.1.8-dfsg-7~bpo8+1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.22-dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster/contrib: 5.2.22-dfsg-1; sid/contrib: 5.2.22-dfsg-2
16:11.43rugshuckerIs that a reasonable way to fix this, or should I just count this machine as somehow corrupted and start over?
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16:12.06klrinteresting, i wonder why it's now showing up in my apt-cache
16:12.22joepublicklr: it's in non-free
16:12.27jasabellait's in contrib
16:12.32colo-workisn't there
16:12.34colo-work,v virtualbox-ose
16:12.35juddPackage: virtualbox-ose on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1
16:12.35amikot40hello :D
16:12.36colo-work?
16:12.37klroh, contrib.
16:12.38colo-workah
16:12.41klri have non-free enabled :)
16:12.43colo-work"used to be", apparently
16:13.03n4dirrugshucker: my belly tells me that the file should have proper rights in the first place, and something went south somehwere.
16:13.10joepublicrugshucker, that's the default state of that file.
16:13.17klrthanks guys, it was in `contrib`
16:13.33joepublicit's the exensions that are in non-free.  my mistake.
16:13.35rugshucker644 doesn't that give read/write priveleges? it seems to already have them
16:13.53klrrugshucker: depends on from who's prospective
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16:14.10n4dirif the chmod fixes it and there are no other problems, i for one would probably leave it installed (but with a bit of mistrust)
16:14.23ChrisHrugshucker: that file is pretty small. I am not sure if copy from anther box would fix it.
16:14.48joepublicrugshucker, 6 is read/write for the owner of the file (root), 4 is read-only for group, and finally 4 read-only for "other" which is what is your immediate problem.
16:14.50klrannadane: This is for Vagrant, I have not attempted to use vagrant with virt
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16:15.40joepublicwhen you install from scratch, that file is 644 by default.
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16:15.48n00b-usrlong live cat
16:15.55joepublicamen, n00b-usr
16:16.56rugshuckerok so now after apt update there are even more errors
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16:17.11jasabellavagrant needed virtualbox 5.1 last time i messed with it
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16:17.37joepublicrugshucker, that's unfortunate but not all that surprising...  Your call as to whether to keep diagnosing and fixing them or to reinstall.
16:17.56klrjoepublic: it is working with 5.2 for me.
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16:18.05jasabellacool
16:18.05klrit can also use docker and some other backends.
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16:18.19klrvagrant-libvirt - Vagrant plugin that adds an Libvirt provider to Vagrant
16:18.23jasabella(i'm not joepublic :) )
16:18.26jasabellabut yeah
16:18.36joepublicwe are both j's so autocomplete can get confused...
16:18.38klri'm sorry jasabella
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16:18.55klrI was being lazy :>
16:18.57jasabellanice to see the ticket is now closed: https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/issues/9090
16:19.27ChrisHrugshucker: unless you get a bit more verbose and show us the new errors, noone can provide assistance/help.
16:20.12joepublicwow ChrisH you're really enthusiastic about helping :)  let him think for a minute!
16:20.29ChrisHrugshucker: from what my 2min google search shows: a apt-key update might help.
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16:20.52rugshuckerOk so now after chmod /etc/apt/trusted.gpg has the priveleges -rw-r--r--
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16:21.03ChrisHjoepublic: I switch to this screen every few minutes and ... no I am not enthustastic
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16:23.12rugshuckertest
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16:23.45Neobenedicthi i can ping 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1 and access the machine over IP but DNS is not working
16:23.46Neobenedicthelp?
16:23.57rugshuckerthe following signatures couldn't be verified bc the public key is not available
16:24.01Neobenedicti added "nameserver 8.8.8.8" to /etc/resolv.conf and ifdown/ifup and it didn't help
16:24.11klrdoes 'dig' return anything or just timeout?
16:24.21rugshuckerthat is the jist of what the error from apt update was
16:24.28Neobenedicti dont have dig package installed
16:24.30Neobenedictand can't use apt
16:24.34Neobenedictbecause it can't resolve the dns
16:24.35greycatRemember that DNS uses UDP on port 53 (outgoing), so if you firewalled something, make sure you allow THAT.
16:24.47joepublicNeobenedict, how about nslookup?  us cat people love nslookup
16:24.48Neobenedictbut "ping google.com" just hangs for example
16:24.55Neobenedict-bash: nslookup: command not found
16:24.56klrjoepublic: lol
16:24.59Neobenedicti cannot install any packages
16:25.04jhutchins_wkNeobenedict: You can resolve that by putting the host in your /etc/hosts file.
16:25.05ChrisHNeobenedict: sounds like /etc/resolv.conf is not populated as expected. Check that first and fix it manually
16:25.19Neobenedictcat /etc/resolv.conf
16:25.20Neobenedictnameserver 8.8.8.8
16:25.20Neobenedictnameserver 8.8.4.4
16:25.23jhutchins_wkNeobenedict: If you restarted networking it probably regenerated resolv.conf
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16:25.36joepublicrugshucker, are you interested in troubleshooting that?
16:25.37Neobenedictdoing sudo service networking restart breaks network completely
16:25.42rugshuckerProbly nothing that any of us in our community hasn't seen before at one time or another. basic failed source shit
16:25.52greycator if you waited a few minutes, your DHCP client daemon probably regenerated resolv.conf for you, because it thinks it's helping
16:26.02Neobenedicthow do i kill off dhcp
16:26.03greycat!override dns
16:26.03dpkg_To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf for more details. Note that by ignoring the DHCP-provided DNS servers, you may find that you are unable to use captive portals or surf the web on some network. Beware creating technical debt by doing things like chattr +i
16:26.25rugshuckeryeah man do you really want me to post the entire error?
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16:26.44rugshuckeralso thanks for stickin with me Joe
16:26.46jhutchins_wk!paste
16:26.46dpkg_Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel.  Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net or https://0bin.net/ | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!  Cannot cut and paste?  Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
16:27.21joepublicrugshucker, doesn't matter to me...  But if you want anyone here to know what we are troubleshooting, you have the option of pastebinning the error.
16:27.33rugshuckerThanks hutchins but I already figured that out a long time ago
16:27.35joepublicThanks jhutchins_wk.
16:28.05rugshuckeralright give me a bit
16:28.08klrNeobenedict: what kind of network are you on? a work/school/restricted network? or something you have full control over?
16:28.11joepublicOn my screen that paste command plus reply block takes 8 lines, by the way.
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16:28.31Neobenedictklr: sharing internet from a windows machine
16:28.35Neobenedictbut i can ping 8.8.8.8
16:28.37Neobenedictjust fine
16:28.42Neobenedictand this was working previously
16:29.14klrOkay. Does the windows machine have a firewall on it?
16:29.32rugshuckerpaste.debian.net/1054194/
16:29.36Neobenedicti'm going to try something.
16:29.40klrsomething that would restrict 53/(tcp|udp) ?
16:30.00klryou could also try 1.1.1.1, 4.2.2.2, 4.2.2.3.
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16:30.19ChrisHrugshucker: that looks much better now.
16:30.21Neobenedictokay, interesting
16:30.32joepublicrugshucker, does this help:  http://muzso.hu/2007/05/25/how-to-fix-no_pubkey-errors-in-apt-get-update-operations
16:30.35Neobenedicti "fixed" the issue
16:30.42klrit's very difficult to troubleshoot your networking issues without 'dig' so that should be the next step.
16:30.46Neobenedictby enabling a wireguard vpn
16:30.49Neobenedictfor 0.0.0.0
16:30.55Neobenedictso DNS is being blocked somewhere I guess
16:30.59klr=)
16:31.10Neobenedictdoes windows block DNS or something
16:31.16klrwrong channel ;p
16:31.50klrinstall the usual, tcpdump. nmap, dig, etc and come back and tell us!
16:32.02ChrisHrugshucker: follow the link joepublic send, do that for all  missing keys
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16:36.08klrare most people using wireguard now?
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16:36.28greycatI think the objective answer is "no".
16:36.39greycatLess than 50% of the earth's population are using it.
16:36.41jhutchins_wkklr: He has trouble installing packages because he can't resolve the repo hosts.
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16:36.56klrjhutchins_wk: I understand that, I'm asking a general questions.
16:37.07klrwhich greycat took _way_ too literally.
16:37.12joepublicklr, most means >50%.  That's what that word means.
16:37.42rugshuckerSo im assuming this particular fix shouldn't be run as root?
16:38.14rugshuckerhere is the same link in pastebin http://paste.debian.net/1054195/
16:38.17greycatIf you meant "Are a lot of people using wireguard now?" then I wouldn't know the answer.  I don't even know what wireguard *is*.
16:38.23rugshuckerit'll never expire
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16:38.52joepublicrugshucker, this is a run-as-root operation.
16:39.06SerajewelKSwireguard is probably way too new to be widely adopted
16:39.24joepubliconly root, the owner of the trusted.gpg file, has permission to write to it, as designed.
16:39.39klrgreycat: That was constructive, thank you.
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16:39.52rugshuckeralright thanks
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16:43.45rugshuckerpaste.debian.net/1054197
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16:44.15rugshuckerSometimes there is just always something new you have to deal with
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16:45.52joepublic,v dirmngr
16:45.54juddPackage: dirmngr on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.1.0-3; jessie: 1.1.1-5; stretch-security: 2.1.18-8~deb9u2; stretch: 2.1.18-8~deb9u3; stretch-backports: 2.2.10-3~bpo9+1; buster: 2.2.11-1; sid: 2.2.11-1
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16:46.27rugshuckershit what do i have to mkdir those missing directories now?
16:46.41joepublicThe immediate problem is that you seem to be missing that particular package (dirmngr)
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16:48.21TRPM8-help
16:48.43rugshuckerthanks. well thanks for all the help Joe, Chris. I think I will return to this later. The batteries are running down on both these machines and I do not have the ability to recharge at this time. Thanks again :)
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16:48.57joepublicI was on comfortable familiar territory with chmod'ing trusted.gpg and adding keys.  This one's new to me.  Good luck and peace.
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16:51.17joepublicwireguard is apparently a roll-your-own kernel module VPN about which wikipedia says " the developers of WireGuard advise treating the code and protocol as experimental, and caution that they have not yet achieved a stable release compatible with CVE tracking of any security vulnerabilities that may be discovered"
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17:11.10srgedwhats the linux app close to dreamwaver for html editig ?
17:11.21srgedfor debian i mean
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17:11.47joepublicI guess you don't mean emacs or vi.
17:12.45joepublicPerhaps this article may help you:  https://alternativeto.net/software/adobe-dreamweaver/
17:13.41jhutchins_wk,v quanta
17:13.42juddNo package named 'quanta' was found in amd64.
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17:14.53jhutchins_wksrged: https://www.techradar.com/news/internet/web/7-linux-web-editors-that-get-the-job-done-499389
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17:19.55srgedthanks guys
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17:25.44noodlepieI installed Debian UserLAnd on my mobile, I can run VNC and SSH from anywhere to my mobile core. Neato!
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18:04.56NeobenedictE: Package 'winetricks' has no installation candidate
18:04.58Neobenedicthelp with this error?
18:05.00Neobenedictdebian 9
18:05.15Neobenedict.paste
18:05.16greycat,v winetricks
18:05.17juddPackage: winetricks on amd64 -- wheezy/contrib: 0.0+20121030+svn918-1; jessie/contrib: 0.0+20141009+svn1208-2; stretch/contrib: 0.0+20170101-1; buster/contrib: 0.0+20180815-1; sid/contrib: 0.0+20180815-1
18:05.21greycatIt's in contrib.
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18:06.59Neobenedictthx
18:07.23diogenes_Neobenedict, you could grab the wintetricks from github and just make it executable
18:07.28diogenes_no need for installation
18:07.37Neobenedictyeah too late :p
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18:38.18jhutchins_wkDo the Brother printer drivers work on amd64 systems?
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18:51.01Akuwi need to install flashplugin-nonfree
18:51.11Akuwwhat repo need i?
18:51.28greycatProbably one that existed 3 years ago.
18:51.33greycatGood luck.
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18:52.38annadane,v flashplugin-nonfree
18:52.40juddPackage: flashplugin-nonfree on amd64 -- wheezy/contrib: 1:3.2+wheezy1; jessie/contrib: 1:3.6.1+deb8u1; sid/contrib: 1:3.7
18:53.03annadanewonder if pepperflash can be substituted
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18:54.40annadanemany people just don't bother with flash anymore, it's rare someone needs it for something important and it's a security risk
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18:55.50Akuwi need to install flashplugin-nonfree
18:56.49SerajewelKSAkuw: you want either flashplayer-chromium or flashplayer-mozilla depending on your browser
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18:58.50Tenkawa<PROTECTED>
18:58.54Tenkawaerrr
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18:58.59Tenkawagrumbles at asm_goto
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19:06.46SpeedyGgrumbles at invisible spaces ^_^
19:07.12OozeI thought this would pick up files created within the last 24hours, but it seems to be running on everything in the dir. 'find /media/seed/ -mtime -1 -exec beet import {} \;'
19:07.17OozeAm I missing something?
19:07.24AkuwSerajewelKS: flashplayer-chromium
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19:08.03greycatOoze: -type f, maybe?  I don't know what "beet" does if you pass it a directory name.
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19:10.03n_1-c_kOoze: try "-mtime 1" instead of "-mtime -1"?
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19:10.14greycatn_1-c_k: no.
19:10.39greycat-mtime 1 means "modified between 24 and 48 hours ago", with some weired rounding
19:11.29n_1-c_kgreycat: ah
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19:12.56simpledatWhy  was there only 48 packages to remove after I run apt-get remove virt-manger. And 98 packages when installing it?
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19:14.54jhutchins_wksimpledat: Hard to say, possibly other packages now use some of the dependencies.
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19:16.34annadaneyou shouldn't have 48 removed after apt-get remove virt-manager. apt autoremove, on the other hand...
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19:17.01SerajewelKSannadane: isn't there some apt option to effectively autoremove on every removal?
19:17.18annadanei don't know
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19:19.26annadaneif there are 48 packages removed just from apt remove i'd suspect a weird issue with packages
19:19.38simpledatannadane: Yeah it was from apt-get autoremove, thats right. But why only 48 packages?
19:20.09annadanethen it's probably as jhutchins said and those packages are in use by other programs
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19:20.52n4dir<PROTECTED>
19:20.58bitesdid you install other packages between installing and removing virt-manager?
19:21.06simpledatbites: No
19:21.18simpledatThe only thing I did was, installing virt-manger then removed it.
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19:26.32simpledatnow I removed qemu-kvm
19:26.50simpledatand it autoremoved another 13 packages
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19:27.06simpledatStill not 98 of them as when I install it
19:27.20n4diras said, try deborphan
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19:28.31simpledatn4dir: What is that?
19:29.13n4dirit lists "orphaned" packages (has options, the only one i know from the top of my head is --guess-all, but a simple deborphan would be  a start)
19:29.18Ede|Popedesounds like one of the hugh amount of tools related to packages and their management
19:29.33n4dirbut look really close, it can offer stuff you rather would want to keep.
19:30.14n4dirhence most don't use it (it can go south ...). But only running "deborphan" will only list, and do nothing else
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19:30.32AkuwSerajewelKS: flashplayer-chromium
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19:30.43n4dirthere is also "aptitude purge ~c", which i ran regularly, and never really knew what it did. lol.
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19:32.27AkuwSerajewelKS: i have this line in sources.list
19:32.34AkuwSerajewelKS: deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
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19:33.53simpledatCan some of you try to install virt-manger and check it out?
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19:34.30n4diraptitude purge ~c ; starts doing stuff without hesitating, so take care with that one (never ever had a problem with it, just saying it is a point of no return)
19:35.20bitesit purges packages that have been removed but not purged.
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19:39.31SerajewelKSAkuw: okay. what is your question?
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19:45.15annadaneor "aptitude search ~c" first
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19:46.44n4diryou should announce that a bit louder, annadane. good one.
19:48.06AkuwSerajewelKS: what repo i need to install it
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19:52.16SerajewelKSAkuw: exactly what you have
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19:53.16cybercryptohi thre
19:53.21cybercryptohi there
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20:00.55nwmlibgit2-dev is currently broken on debian buster/sid
20:01.00nwmcannot resolve
20:01.13greycatFile a bug report.
20:02.15annadane!debian-next
20:02.15dpkg_#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
20:02.35*** join/#debian HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@ip-64-134-173-5.public.wayport.net)
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20:03.00Neobenedictwhy is it not on this network
20:03.02*** join/#debian mamadg_ (~ghobadimh@37.27.97.245)
20:03.24bitesthis channel is on the wrong network.
20:03.34greycatWe are the outcast.
20:03.40Neobenedictyeah freenode sucks
20:03.53Neobenedictbut at least it's centralized
20:04.08greycat! #debian oftc move
20:04.16greycat!#debian oftc move
20:04.29greycatHmm.
20:04.37Neobenedictlets be honest if you moved it
20:04.37SerajewelKS!oftc
20:04.38dpkg_OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service.  They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net.  You may be connected to OFTC's network.  http://www.oftc.net/  See also <freenode>, <oftc move> and <fact sharing>.
20:04.40Neobenedictyou'd lose 1000 ppl
20:04.40Neobenedictor so
20:04.44SerajewelKSthere it is
20:04.47SerajewelKS!oftc move
20:04.47dpkg_irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/05/msg00012.html.  Operators and bots (see <fact sharing>) will remain on both networks for the foreseeable future; you're welcome to either move to OFTC with i.d.o or stay on freenode.  Questions?  Ask in #debian on one or other network.  See also http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/04/msg00333.html
20:04.57greycatI guess I don't understand the output of "listkeys oftc"
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20:06.02mamadg_hi , why two tan interface (one of them attached to libvirt kvm VM, and one created manualy in host) cannot connect to each other when bridge does not have ip address ? (i'm trying to find out how bridge's work in linux)
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20:06.30SerajewelKSbridges work at layer 2, so no IP should be necessary
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20:07.21SerajewelKSwait, tun?
20:07.26mamadg_but when i remove bridge ip interface's cannot ping each other
20:07.30SerajewelKSi don't know what a "tan interface" is
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20:07.42mamadg_i'm using linux bridge interface's
20:08.27SerajewelKSokay.  tun interfaces are layer 3 interfaces (IP) and don't really have a concept of layer 2.  so putting them in a layer 2 bridge doesn't really make sense.  if the bridge has an IP then the packets may get layer-3 routed perhaps?
20:08.28*** join/#debian debiantonio (~debianton@201.37.161.24)
20:08.47SerajewelKSmaybe that's why it doesn't work unless the bridge has an IP.  if it were me, i would only be putting tap (layer 2) interfaces in a bridge.
20:08.54mamadg_SerajewelKS: tuntap virtual  interface that used by qemo-kvm machine's
20:09.04SerajewelKSmamadg_: right but tun and tap are different
20:09.19SerajewelKSif you are using tun, then try using tap instead, and make the necessary configuration changes to support tap
20:10.08mamadg_SerajewelKS: actually i'm using tap (ip tuntap add t0 mode tap )
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20:10.28SerajewelKSokay.  then it should work fine even without an IP on the bridge.
20:10.49*** join/#debian nehemiah (~nehemiah@hs-user-138.wia.cz)
20:11.00SerajewelKSnote that bridges have a learning phase before they enter the forwarding phase.  this can take up to 30 seconds with default settings, so you may just need to wait a bit before forwarding across the bridge works.
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20:14.15SerajewelKS(that's only if STP is on, though)
20:14.23mamadg_SerajewelKS: at first ip address assigned to bridge by libvirt and two interface were able to ping each other , but when i remove ip from bridge it does not work anymore
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20:15.23SerajewelKSi assume the two VMs are configured to be in the same subnet
20:15.40bltzfsck<PROTECTED>
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20:16.46SerajewelKSthings to try: make sure the taps are in promisc mode.  enable STP on the bridge and see if that helps.
20:17.20mamadg_SerajewelKS: there is one VM , i created second tap interface myself and add it to bridge (it does not attached to any VM)
20:17.44SerajewelKS... what?
20:17.50SerajewelKSso what system is going to answer the pings then?
20:18.43mamadg_i don't know but when bridge has ip address some system answer ping's
20:18.55SerajewelKSyou need to figure out wtf is going on with that other tap
20:19.00SerajewelKSbecause what you're describing doesn't make any sense
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20:19.26SerajewelKSa tap interface is usually "connected" to a running program, which processes the packets.  in the case of the VM, that's the VM hypervisor.
20:19.44mamadg_SerajewelKS: do you know any good resource or document that explain about how linux interfaces work ?
20:19.45SerajewelKSif you just create a tap then nothing is "connected" to it, and it's a black hole
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20:21.02mamadg_SerajewelKS: ok , but if it is black hole , who answering the ping's ?
20:21.11SerajewelKShow should i know :P
20:21.34SerajewelKSyou haven't even given information about what interfaces are assigned what IPs, what IP you're pinging and from where...
20:21.48SerajewelKSall i know is you have two taps in a bridge and you're trying to ping across the bridge
20:21.56mamadg_SerajewelKS: that is problem i trying to understand how it works
20:22.02mamadg_SerajewelKS: ok wait a minute
20:22.16SerajewelKSwhat you've described to me can't work because one of the taps isn't connected to anything
20:22.27SerajewelKSit's like asking why you can't ping across an ethernet cable that's unplugged on one end
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20:24.18SerajewelKSmamadg_: picture it this way.  a bridge functions like an ethernet switch.  what you've described (bridge with 2 taps) has three cables plugged into it:  each tap, and the bridge interface itself.
20:24.41SerajewelKSmamadg_: one "cable" for the first tap is plugged into the VM.  the one "cable" for the second tap is not plugged in to anything.
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20:24.54SerajewelKSmamadg_: so of course you cannot ping from the VM across the second tap's cable.  the cable goes nowhere.
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20:25.59SerajewelKSif you give the bridge an IP then you should be able to ping that IP, of course
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20:36.15hansoli have installed php5.4.24
20:36.20hansolbut now i want to remove it
20:36.22hansolhow to remove it ?
20:36.50greycatHow did you install it?
20:37.06*** join/#debian rpifan (~rpifan@ipb218f141.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
20:37.31hansolwith wget and configure
20:38.21greycatThen ask ##php how to uninstall it.
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20:42.24Ede|Popededpkg in disguise?
20:42.25dpkg_Ede|Popede: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
20:42.26*** part/#debian Ooze (~Ooze@unaffiliated/ooze)
20:42.44Ede|Popedelarger than a C64? hmm...
20:43.01Tenkawamore like a TRS-80
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20:45.02Tenkawaand who can forget the VIC-20
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20:45.20Ede|Popedeand the datassette
20:45.29mamadg__SerajewelKS: ok problem solved , it's not about bridge ip address it's about host routing table , i remove bridge ip address and add route (ip r add 192.168.2.0/24 dev virbr6  proto kernel  scope link) now everyone are able to ping each other
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20:46.15Tenkawaoh the early days of home computers
20:46.19Tenkawaheheheh
20:46.39Ede|Popedeyeah.. when one could memorize the complete table of asm instructions :>
20:46.49Ede|Popedeis there an emulator on hardware level?
20:46.51Tenkawaindeed
20:47.01TenkawaEde|Popede: probably
20:47.51Ede|Popedewould be interresting, there have been a few different generations of the 6502 (illegal opcodes!)
20:48.23SerajewelKSmamadg__: i still don't understand who is pinging whom considering you said that the second tap is not connected to anything but okay
20:48.40SerajewelKSmamadg__: a bridge should not use layer 3 routing for switched packets
20:49.13SerajewelKSmamadg__: if the ports of the bridge are not in the same subnet then you actually don't want a bridge at all, and you just want to use layer 3 forwarding, which _would_ involve a routing table
20:49.22Tenkawahe's gone
20:49.36SerajewelKS:/
20:49.44SerajewelKShope nobody else has to maintain his broken config
20:49.50Tenkawaunless he has a second nick in here
20:49.57Tenkawahe just pinged out
20:50.44mamadg__SerajewelKS: remember this is not a physical bridge, it's linux virtual bridge interface
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20:51.11SerajewelKSmamadg__: a virtual bridge operates pretty much the same way as an ethernet switch
20:51.15Tenkawaahh you did have 2
20:51.17Tenkawagood
20:51.21Tenkawawheeew
20:51.33SerajewelKSso if the parties involved in the bridge do not share the same subnet then a bridge is the _wrong solution_
20:51.38mamadg__SerajewelKS: but about tap interface you are right , i steel don't know who answering the ping
20:52.03mamadg__SerajewelKS: they are in same range
20:52.11SerajewelKSokay.  then a host routing table is unnecessary.
20:52.38SerajewelKSrouting deals with layer 3 packets destined for a different subnet than their source
20:52.49SerajewelKSif the destination is the same subnet then routing is not a factor
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20:53.17mamadg__SerajewelKS: in routing table we dont set anything about ip address we just select dev
20:53.21SerajewelKSso you've given me like four pieces of information that all tell a different story, so honestly i'm not sure what the hell you're trying to do, or even what you _have_ done
20:53.35SerajewelKSmamadg__: the routing table is IRRELEVANT for switched layer 2 packets
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20:53.52mamadg__SerajewelKS: yes it does
20:53.58SerajewelKSno it is not
20:54.10SerajewelKSthat is why i'm telling you that part of your config is seriously wrong
20:54.20SerajewelKSif adding a routing table fixes a BRIDGE then something else is broken
20:54.27*** join/#debian jim (~jim@about/linux/staff/jim)
20:54.28SerajewelKSa bridge does not require a configured routing table
20:54.36mamadg__SerajewelKS: i'm sorry it does not :)  , english is not my first
20:55.10mamadg__SerajewelKS: nothing is broken , it's about how linux deal with it
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20:55.27SerajewelKSyeah see another problem is that you are not listening to me.  something IS broken.
20:55.47SerajewelKSthe routing table is 100% not necessary to make a bridge work
20:55.59no_gravityHello! How can I prevent the network card of my laptop from going to sleep when idle? It seems to go to sleep after just a few ms or something.
20:56.05mamadg__SerajewelKS: how can i test these without ip address and ping ?
20:56.44mamadg__SerajewelKS: is there tool to send a frame and check a delivery ?
20:56.45SerajewelKSmamadg__: i don't know because you still haven't given me a configuration summary that makes any sense
20:57.20SerajewelKSyou've told me "two taps in a bridge" and "adding a routing table fixed it" but you haven't given me IP addresses of any of the interfaces, what IP the VM is configured for, what you're even trying to ping and from where...
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20:57.31mamadg__SerajewelKS: https://pastebin.com/2G0KSeyp
20:57.33SerajewelKSwhat routing table entry you added
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20:58.16exifbonoHello everyone. I have a clear new debian stretch, and I've set a hard drive so that is mounted on /var (making sure to copy all the /var content in it before it). Now, it mounts alright, I can ssh into it, but for some reason I can't ping the outside world. Any idea of what may be happening?
20:58.18SerajewelKSmamadg__: why does t0 have an IP?
20:58.22mamadg__SerajewelKS: ip r add 192.168.2.0/24 dev virbr6  proto kernel  scope link
20:58.59SerajewelKSmamadg__: interfaces in a bridge should not have any inet or inet6 addresses
20:59.17Tenkawaexifbono: can it ping your router/gateway?
20:59.34exifbonoTenkawa, yep
20:59.37Tenkawaok
20:59.48mamadg__SerajewelKS: why not ?
20:59.52Tenkawacan it access outside sites?
21:00.01SerajewelKSmamadg__: when you put an interface into a bridge, it effectively ceases to be an interface for the host computer, and becomes a "port" on the bridge
21:00.07Tenkawathrough normal apps?
21:00.17Tenkawalike links/lynx/firefox?
21:00.39mamadg__SerajewelKS: ok!!?
21:00.42exifbonoTenkawa, no, nothing on the outside... I tried a simple wget and and apt update, can't resolve no address
21:00.48Tenkawaok
21:01.00Tenkawasee whats in your /etc/resolv.conf
21:01.17SerajewelKSmamadg__: a bridge effectively is joining multiple interfaces into a single interface + physical network
21:01.20Tenkawasee if theres a nameserver line
21:01.28exifbonoTenkawa, it is all commented out
21:01.32Tenkawathat has an ip of your router
21:01.33Tenkawaok
21:01.39Tenkawathats part of the problem
21:01.42SerajewelKSmamadg__: so the layer 3 (IP) configuration needs to be on the bridge itself (virbr6) and not the bridge ports (t0 and vnet1)
21:01.46*** join/#debian NullM0dem (~brian@cpe-104-162-218-164.nyc.res.rr.com)
21:02.09Tenkawayour not picking up full dns lease
21:02.15Tenkawaer dhcp
21:02.28exifbonooh... how can a /var disk change provoke that?
21:02.30Tenkawa(I assu,me you are using dhcp)
21:02.38exifbonoI am using static address actuall
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21:02.41mamadg__SerajewelKS: ok i don't get it !!!
21:02.42Tenkawaoh
21:02.44SerajewelKSmamadg__: also note that interface t0 has "state DOWN"
21:02.56Tenkawaif you are static you need to create that file
21:03.06Tenkawathat is nic dependent
21:03.23SerajewelKSmamadg__: i don't know how to explain it any clearer.  interfaces in a bridge should never have IP addresses of their own.
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21:03.50Tenkawaexifbono: 2 lines will fix it
21:04.05exifbonoTenkawa, thanks, I'll give it a try, I found another pc file...
21:04.11Tenkawacool
21:04.21Tenkawatry it and good luck
21:04.39exifbonothanks a bunch for your time either way, Tenkawa
21:04.45Tenkawano problem
21:04.46SerajewelKSmamadg__: interfaces in a bridge are distinct layer 2 interfaces, but they cease to be distinct layer 3 entities; the layer 3 configuration goes on the bridge interface.
21:05.15SerajewelKSmamadg__: hence the bridged interfaces retain a separate hardware address.  but they should NOT have IP (layer 3) addresses.
21:06.10SerajewelKSmamadg__: the VM configuration looks fine
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21:06.48SerajewelKSmamadg__: i'm guessing t0 is the tap you created by hand, because it is assigned an IP (which is incorrect) and is also marked as "down".
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21:07.19SerajewelKSmamadg__: t0 is your "unplugged ethernet cable" in this scenario.  it can be part of the bridge, but there's nothing on the other side that will respond to any packets.
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21:07.42exifbonoTenkawa, I added this lines to resolv.conf and rebooted, but nothing changed:    search station     nameserver 192.168.1.1
21:07.50SerajewelKSmamadg__: the routing table entry probably patched something up because t0 isn't configured in the same subnet even (/32 instead of /24)
21:07.55Tenkawano
21:07.56exifbono(192.168.1.1 is my router and gateway)
21:08.01mamadg__SerajewelKS: yes it is , but i can ping it from VM
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21:08.09Tenkawanamserver 192.168.1.1
21:08.12Tenkawathats all
21:08.16SerajewelKSmamadg__: that's because you incorrectly assigned it an IP address
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21:08.23exifbonooh... let's get to it again!
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21:08.29Tenkawadont need a reboot afterwards
21:08.31SerajewelKSmamadg__: repeat after me: "i will not assign IP addresses to interfaces that are in a bridge"
21:08.36mamadg__SerajewelKS: about t0 address i found out and fix it
21:08.41Tenkawajust go to a command line
21:08.58Tenkawaand try to nslookup a full domainname
21:09.04SerajewelKSmamadg__: okay.  so the only problem here is that t0 doesn't do anything because there's no VM or software program that will reply to packets.
21:09.05Tenkawaif it resolves
21:09.39SerajewelKSmamadg__: if you launch a new VM and assign it an IP address in the range 192.168.2.0/24 and add its vnet interface into the bridge, the two VMs should be able to ping each other, without any extra configuration
21:09.52TenkawaI imagine you are missing your gateway too
21:09.52SerajewelKSmamadg__: regardless of a routing table, and regardless of whether virbr6 has an IP, they would be able to ping.
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21:10.14Tenkawawhich is an easy test to run
21:10.17mamadg__SerajewelKS: yes i tested that
21:10.32SerajewelKSmamadg__: okay.  so do you have any other questions?
21:12.01mamadg__SerajewelKS: actually i don't why i should not add ip address to bridge interface or bridge it self and how bridging work in linux :)
21:12.40mamadg__SerajewelKS: can you introduce me some resource or document to learn about that ?
21:12.46SerajewelKSmamadg__: the bridge interface itself (virbr6) CAN and probably SHOULD have an IP address.  the bridge interface is where your host connects to the bridged network, effectively.
21:13.02SerajewelKSmamadg__: the physical interfaces that make up the bridge (t0 and vnet1) SHOULD NOT have an IP address.
21:13.17exifbonoTenkawa, what do you know, it works! That's sorcery!
21:13.20SerajewelKSmamadg__: do you know how an ethernet switch works?
21:13.29Tenkawaexifbono: excellent :)
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21:14.00mamadg__SerajewelKS: yes , i already read ICND1 and know about flooding and mac-table and ...
21:14.23Tenkawayou can add your domain with that search stanza to append it for short lookups
21:14.28hansolhow to install libc client ?
21:14.34Tenkawafor stuff like avahi, bounjour etc
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21:14.52Tenkawabut its completely optionakl
21:14.55Tenkawaer optional
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21:18.30exifbonoTenkawa, seems like interesting stuff, it goes down in my wiki for future fun times =)
21:18.36Tenkawacool
21:18.37SerajewelKSmamadg__: okay.  you can think of a bridge as a "virtual ethernet switch".
21:18.41Tenkawait is fun
21:18.43Tenkawa:)
21:18.47exifbonothanks again :)
21:18.52Tenkawano problem
21:18.56Tenkawagood luck
21:19.02SerajewelKSmamadg__: in your head, think of an ethernet switch.  one cable goes to virbr6, one cable goes to t0, and one cable goes to vnet1.
21:19.19SerajewelKSmamadg__: then it should be clear why you don't put IP addresses on t0 and vnet1.
21:19.28Tenkawawiki.debian.org is a great resource too
21:19.45SerajewelKSmamadg__: a switch doesn't care about IP addresses.  the only interface that needs an IP is virbr6, because that's the connection from the "switch" to the host computer.
21:20.15SerajewelKSmamadg__: the other two interfaces at that point are just kind of the ethernet cables that connect to another host.  in the case of vnet1, it's more or less just the "cable" connecting the VM to the switch.
21:20.36SerajewelKSmamadg__: it doesn't need an IP.  the VM's eth1 is what "gives it an IP" more or less.
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21:23.06SerajewelKSmamadg__: another way to think of it is that a bridge joins multiple network segments into a single network segment.  if you have the host computer with three interfaces (two physical and one bridge) then why would the host computer need THREE addresses on the network segment!?  it should only need one.
21:23.26SerajewelKSmamadg__: and that's what the bridge interface is for: you put the layer 3 address on the bridge.  then the host only has a single IP on the entire network segment.
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21:24.28SerajewelKS(erm network segment may be the wrong term... subnet may be better.  a "layer 3 network segment.")
21:24.50mamadg__SerajewelKS: ok that right , so virbr6 play a switch and cable to host role , vnet1 is cable to VM
21:25.25SerajewelKSmamadg__: right.  so if you put an IP on virbr0, and vnet1, and t0, it's like plugging your host computer into the switch three times and giving each its own IP.
21:26.21mamadg__SerajewelKS: so when i put ip address on t0 , i connect to my host ..
21:26.36SerajewelKSwell you shouldn't put an IP on t0 at all
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21:28.18mamadg__SerajewelKS: virbr6 has no ip on it , so it's not connect to host (just play switch role) , vnet1 connected to VM , so i add t0 and assign it ip address (connect it to my host)
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21:28.58SerajewelKSmamadg__: t0 should not have an IP address either
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21:29.13SerajewelKSmamadg__: the "thing" that uses t0 will handle that.  right now t0 is not connected to anything.
21:29.25SerajewelKSmamadg__: in the switch scenario, t0 is an ethernet cable that is plugged into the switch, but the other end is not plugged in to anything.
21:29.31SerajewelKSmamadg__: you still don't give it an IP!
21:29.40SerajewelKSmamadg__: the correct solution is to plug it in to something
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21:30.15mamadg__SerajewelKS: forget about t0 , think about dummy interface
21:30.41SerajewelKSmamadg__: i don't care what kind of interface it is.  if it's a bridge port, it does NOT get an IP.
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21:33.20mamadg__SerajewelKS: ok it's wrong to assign ip to tap interface , but happen when i do the wrong thing
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21:34.13mamadg__SerajewelKS: why it need routing table entry and who answering the ping's to it ?
21:34.15SerajewelKSmamadg__: no, it's NOT wrong to assign an IP to a tap interface
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21:34.41SerajewelKSmamadg__: it's wrong to assign an IP to an interface that is part of a bridge, regardless of what type of interface it is
21:34.53SerajewelKSmamadg__: if a tap interface is not part of a bridge, then it probably SHOULD have an IP.
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21:40.17mamadg__SerajewelKS: is it like that i connected one port of switch to another one ?
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21:44.48SerajewelKSmamadg__: no, not really.  putting an IP on a switch port is more like connecting the host computer to the switch multiple times, but not exactly.
21:48.09SerajewelKSmamadg__: don't worry too much about "what it's like" and just know that it's not a good idea to do that :)
21:49.03SerajewelKSmamadg__: from the perspective of the host, on layer 3 and above, you're basically combining multiple interfaces into a single interface (the bridge interface).
21:49.28SerajewelKSmamadg__: so the layer 3 configuration should go on the bridge interface, and ONLY on the bridge interface.
21:50.16mamadg__SerajewelKS: it's like i already have cable to switch but i add another one
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21:51.14mamadg__SerajewelKS: like i say i trying understand system otherwise i use libvirt to do all these thing for me
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21:51.56jhutchins_wkMultiple parallel connections work, they can even be bound together for more throughput.
21:52.23fragment1never cross the streams
21:52.33SerajewelKSright, there may be reasons to do it with a physical switch.  right now we're talking about bridges and why you don't assign an IP to the bridge port interfaces.
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21:56.40mamadg__SerajewelKS: yes it is useless in virtual environment but why does not work ? why linux does not forward frame's through t0 interface ? it's like t0 (or dummy0) does not connected to switch
21:57.34SerajewelKSmamadg__: it is working, linux does forward frames into t0.  but there's nothing on the other end of t0 to reply to them.
21:57.59SerajewelKSmamadg__: in particular any broadcast packets (e.g. ARP) will get sent to t0 (if it's up) but nothing will ever reply.
21:59.44SerajewelKSa tap interface without anything controlling it through /dev/net/tun is like a disconnected cable
21:59.49SerajewelKSyou can chuck frames at it, but they go nowhere
22:00.05mamadg__SerajewelKS: so if i open t0 with python script i should receive ping packets ?
22:00.36SerajewelKSmamadg__: sure
22:00.55SerajewelKSmamadg__: but only if your script responds to ARP correctly
22:01.08mamadg__SerajewelKS: ok
22:01.16SerajewelKSmamadg__: otherwise the layer 2 bridge (switch) won't know what bridge port owns the IP being pinged
22:01.36SerajewelKSlike a switch, the bridge learns which ports own which IPs by observing ARP packets
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22:03.00mamadg__SerajewelKS: but there is another question : t0 is cable that not connected to anything , but when we have route like this <192.168.2.0/24 dev virbr6  proto kernel  scope link> (virbr6 steal does not have ip) , i get ping answer in VM from t0 ip address
22:03.28SerajewelKSmamadg__: if you assign t0 an IP, then yes, the kernel will pong.  that doesn't mean the configuration is "good."
22:03.41SerajewelKSmamadg__: it just means the kernel is tolerating your broken config
22:04.23SerajewelKSmamadg__: there's not really much difference between putting an IP on t0, and just putting that IP as a secondary address on virbr6
22:05.27SerajewelKSi'm trying to think of an example where they would behave differently and i can't come up with anything
22:05.39mamadg__SerajewelKS: i thing when i assign IP to t0 it does not really attached to t0 , it just like that system know's the ip address and send packet's according to route table
22:05.50SerajewelKSmamadg__: the routing table is not even relevant here
22:06.15SerajewelKSmamadg__: i should take that back.  what address did you put on t0?  is it a /32 or a /24?
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22:06.26mamadg__SerajewelKS: /24
22:06.48SerajewelKSokay then you should not need a routing table entry for it to work.  i don't really 100% know because this is a "bad" config and you shouldn't do it.
22:06.58SerajewelKSif a routing table entry is necessary, that's further evidence that this is a bad thing to do
22:07.48mamadg__SerajewelKS: again i dont care about good or bad
22:08.42mamadg__SerajewelKS: i do weird thing to understand how linux work
22:09.16annadanelinux doesn't work based on bad practices... ideally
22:09.22SerajewelKSmamadg__: it's a bit silly to try to understand how a broken configuration works
22:09.31SerajewelKSmamadg__: the answer will range from "sensibly" to "not at all"
22:09.40SerajewelKSlinux does not try to make bad configurations work
22:09.53mamadg__SerajewelKS: in case of routing table we do not specify gateway we specify which interface to work
22:09.53annadanedepending on who you ask
22:09.57joepublicI have heard "practice makes perfect" but it's wrong.  "perfect" practice makes perfecty.  practicing "wrong" makes you really good at messing up.
22:10.01annadanebut no, learn to do stuff properly. please.
22:10.23SerajewelKSmamadg__: yes, that's how link-scoped routes work
22:10.24joepublicI mean, sure, learn what not to do.  But by not doing it.
22:11.00mamadg__ok introduce me some good paper about how linux handle network
22:11.11SerajewelKSerm not link scoped
22:11.23SerajewelKSwait.  yes.
22:11.30Ede|Popedeare the HOWTOs still a thing?
22:11.34greycatmamadg__: try ##networking or #netfilter
22:11.53SerajewelKSmamadg__: you should forget about putting an IP on a bridge port though.  don't try to understand how it works.  there is NO POINT to trying to understand how something wrong works.
22:12.09annadane"it depends on the network and what you're trying to accomplish"
22:12.17annadane"ask the lovely people in #debian"
22:12.35SerajewelKSmamadg__: this is like a C/C++ developer asking how some undefined behavior works.  the answer is "it doesn't matter, don't do that."
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22:13.08irreleph4ntHi. I am struggling to get a debian install on lvm-on-luks to boot
22:13.14irreleph4ntI am using refind as a bootloader
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22:13.49irreleph4ntrefind itself works but the boot fails because "volume group XYZ cannot be found"
22:14.25irreleph4ntWhat really ticks me off is the fact that the debian boot never prompts for my LUKS passphrase
22:15.24irreleph4ntit seems like the initramfs is missing LUKS and LVM support and quite honestly I have no freaking clue how to add that on Debian
22:15.33irreleph4ntit's just so much simpler on other distros
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22:16.12SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: if you boot into the system somehow (which includes chrooting from the installer) then "update-initramfs -k all -u" should do it
22:16.29irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: well that's what I am doing
22:16.35irreleph4ntand it does _not_ work
22:16.55irreleph4ntthat command complains about /sbin/fsck.crypto_LUKS not being present
22:17.08irreleph4ntthis is a UEFI install by the way
22:17.12irreleph4ntso my ESP is FAT32
22:17.16SerajewelKSthen something else is probably wrong... i couldn't tell you what.  i've never booted straight from LUKS before.  i always use a separate, unencrypted /boot
22:17.31irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: that's what I do aswell
22:17.40irreleph4ntmy disk has 2 partitions
22:17.44mamadg__SerajewelKS: i have to go thank you for answering :)
22:17.49SerajewelKSmamadg__: np, good luck!
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22:18.04irreleph4ntsda1 is my boot partition which is not encrypted and formatted FAT32
22:18.30SerajewelKSoh, i thought the LUKS volume contained /boot
22:18.33irreleph4ntsda2 is LUKS encrypted. my root partition sits on there
22:18.50SerajewelKSi have a system that boots like this (with grub) and it works fine...
22:18.58SerajewelKSexcept ext4 everywhere instead of fat32
22:19.23SerajewelKSwhen you rebuilt the initramfs, was /boot mounted correctly, _within_ the chroot?
22:19.23irreleph4nthow do I tell Debian to load dm-crypt on boot?
22:19.38SerajewelKSit's possible that you built a new initramfs into /boot on the / volume
22:19.42SerajewelKSwhich wouldn't work, for obvious reasons
22:19.53irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: well, before I enter the chroot I mount /dev/sda1 to /mnt/boot
22:20.02SerajewelKShmm
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22:22.21SerajewelKSwait you said the initramfs isn't even being generated due to that error?
22:22.32irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: well, it is generated
22:22.43irreleph4ntbut complains that the binary is missing
22:22.58SerajewelKSokay.  that's fine, i think.
22:23.01irreleph4ntwhat do I need to do in order for Debian to prompt me for my LUKS passphrase during boot?
22:23.05SerajewelKSafter update-initramfs do you update-grub?
22:23.09irreleph4ntI have afeeling I am missing something
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22:23.32irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: I don't use GRUB. I use rEFInd as bootloader instead
22:23.53SerajewelKSoh right.  well.
22:24.03SerajewelKSbefore you run update-initramfs, check that /etc/crypttab is correct
22:24.28SerajewelKSi believe this gets copied into the initramfs so the kernel knows what volumes need to be unlocked in the initrd environment.
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22:24.59SerajewelKSif possible, specify the source device by UUID instead of /dev path as that could change
22:25.56SerajewelKSif you set this all up using the partition editor of the installer then it should have generated it for you
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22:26.08SerajewelKSif you're doing it by hand, you have to set it up yourself
22:26.20irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: so on Debian I am required to place my root partition information in crypttab as well? OMG
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22:26.43SerajewelKSyes?  otherwise how is the kernel to know what to unlock during early boot?
22:27.06SerajewelKSshould it just look around for any and every LUKS partition and ask you to unlock it, even if it doesn't know if it's required to boot?
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22:27.42irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: well on Arch Linux for example you only use crypttab for any non-root partitions you want to unlock _after_boot
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22:28.05SerajewelKSthen there must be a separate boot crypttab somewhere
22:28.43SerajewelKSthat or the script that builds an arch initrd looks at the current system state to derive the layers around /
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22:29.59SerajewelKSi prefer manually building a crypttab anyway.  perhaps you need a / and a /home to be mounted from different LUKS-encrypted volumes before booting.
22:29.59irreleph4ntI am going to try and find details on crypttab then
22:30.05irreleph4nti.e. what I need to put in there
22:30.09SerajewelKSman 5 crypttab
22:30.18irreleph4ntthanks
22:30.28SerajewelKSsomething like "cryptroot UUID=luks-uuid none luks"
22:30.30irreleph4ntI'll linger around here for a bit in case this also doesn't help
22:30.48SerajewelKSyou can find the UUID with "file -s /dev/$LUKS_PARTITION"
22:31.09SerajewelKSe.g. mine looks like "sda3_crypt UUID=76378f25-6c1d-4b7c-a8cf-5dedab34dc11 none luks"
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22:32.40SerajewelKSonce that is done, update
22:32.52SerajewelKSonce that is done, "update-initramfs -k all -u" again then try booting
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22:37.47Bundestrojanerhello. I'm searching for a new Notebook and want to run Debian on it. How is nVidia Optimus supported nowadays if you are willing to use the proprietary nvidia driver?
22:37.47Bundestrojaneras far as i understand the wikis of debian, arch and ubuntuusers, the nvidia-driver allows you to switch between Intel IGP and nVidia GPU - is that correct? Some Wikis mention display tearing and other problems, does it still occur?
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22:38.34irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: is sda3_crypt the name of the device within your volume group?
22:38.57irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: i.e. /dev/mapper/<Group>-sda3_crypt?
22:39.16Bundestrojaneri don't need any dynamic switching like on windows or as bumblebee tried to implement it (if i got this right)
22:39.29SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: no, it's the name of the device-mapper name that will be created for the unencrypted volume.  e.g. /dev/mapper/sda3_crypt is the LVM PV.
22:39.49SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: it really doesn't matter much what you put; the LVM prober should find the PV automatically
22:40.37SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: this config was generated by the debian installer.  it chooses "<physical-luks-device>_crypt"
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22:41.55annadaneBundestrojaner, the only thing i know about optimus is it requires specific instructions to use the proprietary driver and some people have gotten into trouble following the wiki i think?
22:42.00annadaneotherwise i don't know much about it, sorry
22:42.17annadaneit's not as simple as "just install the nvidia driver"
22:42.21SerajewelKSmy coworker has an optimus device and never got bumblebee to work correctly
22:42.26SerajewelKShe fiddled with it for days
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22:44.23irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: well, all that did not help either
22:44.36irreleph4ntI am giving up, Debian is just not worth my time like this
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22:45.17BundestrojanerSerajewelKS: that's what i read also. but bumblebee didn't see any development since 2013...
22:46.34SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: it's possible that the crypttab name must match whatever it's set as in the environment you're running update-initramfs in.  e.g. in that case the installer.
22:47.05irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: I am not sure I understand what you mean
22:47.09SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: "lsblk" should tell you what that is, e.g. i have "sda3_crypt            254:0    0   232G  0 crypt"
22:47.24SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: you're running update-initramfs from the installer, yes?  after chrooting into your system?
22:47.32irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: yes
22:47.40annadanef!@#ing nvidia.
22:48.01SerajewelKSokay.  then the installer opened the LUKS device with a specific name.  it's possible that crypttab has to match that for the initramfs-tools-core scripts to notice that it's required to boot.
22:48.07SerajewelKSlsblk will tell you what that name is
22:49.05SerajewelKSthe initramfs-core-tools scripts do a lot of looking around for things like LVM-in-LUKS
22:49.19SerajewelKSi assume that your / is specified in fstab by UUID?
22:50.47SerajewelKSi've generally left well enough alone with the config the installer generates, except i've *added* encrypted disks
22:51.08irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: yes, my fstab references / by UUID
22:51.08Bundestrojanerannadane: the debian-wiki seems pretty complicated while the ubuntu-wiki says it works out-of-the-box.
22:51.08Bundestrojanerit seems to be extremely hard to find information about this which is not from ~2014...
22:51.38SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: ok that's good.  i think if the device name in crypttab matches the device name the installer rescue mode uses for the device, it should work.
22:51.51irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: let me try that
22:51.56irreleph4ntthanks man for all the help so far
22:52.03irreleph4nthas been of great use :)
22:52.08SerajewelKSbut i've never set LUKS up by hand for /
22:52.17SerajewelKSso i'm kind of doing some educated guessing here
22:52.22SerajewelKSno problem, this stuff interests me a lot
22:52.45irreleph4ntas I have said earlier, this is just sooooo much simpler / easier on other distros
22:52.59irreleph4ntand one of the reasons why I avoid Debian wherever I can to be honest
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22:53.22SerajewelKS*shrug* i've never had this issue
22:53.59Bundestrojanerannadane: https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Hybrid-Grafikkarten/PRIME/#Proprietaerer-Treiber-nvidia-prime
22:53.59Bundestrojanersry, i didn't find this in english
22:55.14SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: this stuff doesn't bother me as much because each distro has its own way of configuring boot
22:56.08SerajewelKSi like explicitly declaring boot-required LUKS volumes in crypttab, because otherwise you have to make a wild guess about whether a keyfile is required
22:56.21Bundestrojanerif i got the current situation with optimus right, switching manually between the gpus works out-of-the-box but dynamic switching between them is close to impossible
22:56.24SerajewelKSif arch detects it all, how can it be sure there's no keyfile for /
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23:01.54irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: good question. I have never used a keyfile for /
23:02.00irreleph4ntso can't tell :/
23:02.06irreleph4ntI am scapping this install though
23:02.10irreleph4ntDone with Debian :D
23:02.24SerajewelKSyeah i'm just using that as an example for why debian might choose not to do a bunch of magic for you re: crypttab
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23:05.54SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: the -v switch to update-initramfs might also help you figure out why detection isn't working
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23:06.45SerajewelKSe.g. i see lines like "Calling hook cryptroot" "Copying module directory kernel/arch/x86/crypto"
23:07.46irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: welp. too late. That Debian install is gone now
23:08.06SerajewelKSok
23:08.27irreleph4ntTrying one more time with the automated install stuff
23:08.44irreleph4ntbut am already bugged out by the fact that I have to create a non-root user
23:08.50irreleph4ntI just don't get Debian :D
23:08.55amikot40may I ask stupid and maybe inproper here question?
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23:09.21SerajewelKSamikot40: you can ask it and we can choose whether to answer
23:09.29amikot40ok :)
23:10.26SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: i'm looking at the arch wiki and it requires some very specific config to boot / from a LUKS volume as well, it's just specified using kernel parameters
23:10.58irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: yup, which IMHO is a lot easiert o understand an _do_
23:11.00irreleph4ntand*
23:11.11SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: FWIW you may also have to update your refind configuration in that case
23:11.29SerajewelKSbecause AIUI debian also requires those kernel arguments, it just automatically builds them based on the contents of your crypttab
23:11.42irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: I don't think the debian install scripts will let me choose anything other than Grub
23:12.05SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: i mean if you want to use arch then use arch.  nobody is forcing you to use debian.  if you've found an issue then a bug report could be warranted.
23:12.44irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: well, I am forced to use Debian by the fact I want OpenMediaVault
23:12.48amikot40I have query to SQL Srv with XML inside I need to put this query in quotes to assign it to variable in PHP - but inside query I have SQL variable assignation where XML in single quotes is assigned to SQL variable, and inside XML i have double quotes where text is assigned to xml variables. How to put it all together ? which quotes can I escape ?
23:13.13SerajewelKShmm, no, my grub config doesn't reference crypt or luks at all
23:14.53SerajewelKSi don't know how much refind may play into this issue since i haven't used it
23:15.14SerajewelKSwait this is openmediavault?
23:15.57irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: I was about to say that two things make my life hard right now: 1) I have limited experience with Debian because I dread it and 2) refind doesn't work well with standard Debian it seems
23:16.01irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: no, not yet
23:16.09SerajewelKSoh okay
23:16.21irreleph4ntI was looking to create a minimal Debian install and the put OMV on top of it
23:16.28irreleph4ntinstead of using whatever OMV provides
23:16.46SerajewelKSall i can suggest at this point is that after running update-initramfs you may also need to rebuild your refind config
23:16.57SerajewelKSi don't know how mature the config generation scripts are for refind
23:17.13irreleph4ntrefind in contrast to GRUB does not need to be rebuild
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23:17.35SerajewelKSparticularly if you can verify that crypt things are getting put in the initrd, then it's probably a refind config problem
23:17.58irreleph4ntthe most important parts for the config of refind are agnostic of the initramfs
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23:18.49irreleph4ntso even if you change something about init, as long as the .img file can be found where you pointed refind to, then that's that
23:18.49SerajewelKSwait, is refind booting linux directly or is it chaining to grub?
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23:19.11irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: refind is a bootloader just like GRUB is
23:19.15irreleph4ntso no chaining needed
23:19.21SerajewelKSokay, are you 100% that the kernel arguments are correct then?
23:19.31irreleph4ntyup
23:19.49SerajewelKSi have to head home otherwise i'd look, but i'd suggest posting your refind config
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23:20.03irreleph4ntSerajewelKS: will do at some point later
23:20.06irreleph4ntthanks again
23:20.09SerajewelKSnp
23:20.10irreleph4nthave a good night
23:20.22SerajewelKSyou too.  i may be back on in a few hours.  i'll read the scrollback to see where you ended up.
23:21.47irreleph4ntwell, the automated install of Debian worked
23:21.51irreleph4ntwhich is using GRUB
23:21.54irreleph4ntwhich I don't like
23:22.03irreleph4ntbut I can't be bothered to change that
23:22.07SerajewelKSall i can say is that this has always worked for me with grub, so i'm suspicious of refind
23:22.39SerajewelKSbbl
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23:46.08SerajewelKSirreleph4nt: i'm semi-here at this point (will be AFK on and off for a bit)
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23:46.48happygilmoregentI am having issues where with the nvidia-driver from repos.  The GTK-GREETER for X just flickers
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