| 00:00.24 | JordiGH | I'm kind of surprised how long it takes to build cpython. |
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| 00:01.45 | JordiGH | Oh, that's because `dh build` isn't the same thing as `dpkg-buildpackage` |
| 00:02.12 | JordiGH | Y'know what, I'm just gonna go with chriskeuhl |
| 00:02.44 | JordiGH | Maybe I should just verify the signatures on these debs, how do I do that? |
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| 00:09.00 | JordiGH | Bah, the packages don't even install properly. |
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| 00:33.19 | zq | hi |
| 00:33.34 | zq | $(date) is returning 12-hour format by default |
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| 00:46.02 | rwp | zq, Is there a question in there? date by default returns a locale specific format. |
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| 01:06.07 | aloo_shu | ah ok, there's a lil prob: my laptop's screen is kaput, I've got an external monitor. the bios is set to use it, the de is set to use it as primary display and not use the laptops, but slim uses both, and in extended desktop mode, not mirroring, so that the login fields end up on the broken screen |
| 01:07.03 | aloo_shu | I guess I'll have to check startx script and/or xorg.conf, or is there a systemd side to it? |
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| 01:08.49 | bongobongo56 | not sure I got through: |
| 01:09.03 | bongobongo56 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:09.07 | bongobongo56 | I guess I'll have to check startx script and/or xorg.conf, or is there a systemd side to it? |
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| 01:11.18 | ksk | Im not an X guy, so Im not really of help here. hacky approach: login blindly, start a shell, use xrandr to make it only use the right monitor (you will probably need the monitors identification for that, though) |
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| 01:14.40 | ksk | also, what is slim? |
| 01:15.11 | ksk | "desktop-independent graphical login manager for X11" okay.. |
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| 01:15.55 | ksk | there is no option in slim regarding monitor setups? |
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| 01:30.07 | aloo_shu | ksk slim is slim, it has theme files, but that's where documentation ends |
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| 01:31.44 | aloo_shu | but wait, now that you mention, I could try and place the login fields left aligned, that would be a workaround at least |
| 01:33.28 | aloo_shu | or otherwise tweak the layout to have the dialog in the visible part, the theme files seem human readable & self-explannatory enough |
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| 01:38.34 | ksk | aloo_shu: the package description also mentions a "option file" |
| 01:41.34 | aloo_shu | ksk might dig a little more, the man page is minimalistic |
| 01:42.24 | aloo_shu | prolly /etc/slim or such |
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| 01:43.35 | aloo_shu | tomorrow when I've got sun on my panels, I'm just collecting suggestions now from my tablet |
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| 01:46.57 | ksk | your computer is solar powered, or just a figure of speech? :D |
| 01:47.21 | Sveta | It probably is. |
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| 01:51.37 | AgentHeX | Hey, guys. Trying to set up MariaDB (as default replacement for MySQL), and I keep getting access denied. I've tried mysql_secure_installation, but the password was obviously not set correctly. Is there a tutorial/walk-through that isn't complete garbage? |
| 01:52.37 | AgentHeX | All of the advice out there is to use ALTER USER command, but I get syntax errors, and I didn't change anything from recommendation. |
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| 01:53.30 | AgentHeX | I have no problem kicking MariaDB to the curb and using something else, but this is Debian, and I can't imagine they would replace MySQL with trash code. |
| 01:54.02 | AgentHeX | I feel like I must be doing something wrong, but I'm 5 minutes into using it, and it's smelling awful. |
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| 01:54.35 | whislock | AgentHeX: What are you doing that's giving you access denied? |
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| 01:54.49 | AgentHeX | $ mysql -u root -p |
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| 01:56.21 | AgentHeX | If I use root account, I can get into "mysql" without user or password. And that's fine for manually controling it from the command line as root user, but it does not work for user account access (mysql -u root -p fails, access denied), and it is light years from secure. |
| 01:57.44 | rwp | AgentHeX, It's the --skip-grant-tables option. Let me look around for a howto... |
| 01:58.16 | rwp | Wait... You can log in as root? Then simply reset the password. |
| 01:58.28 | whislock | I feel like we're confusing mysql-root for system-root. |
| 01:59.17 | AgentHeX | rwp: I can log in with "mysql" as the root user, and it gets me to a command line. When I follow instructions to reset the password, I get syntax errors, and despite 20 years of programming experience, I can see no syntax errors in the command. |
| 01:59.34 | AgentHeX | Either I'm insane, or MariaDB is crap. |
| 01:59.57 | whislock | MariaDB is a fork of MySQL. And a very, very close-tracking fork. |
| 02:00.07 | rwp | Well... I have been using MariaDB interchangably with MySQL as far as SQL syntax is concerned and not noticed anything different. |
| 02:00.36 | AgentHeX | And it shouldn't be. That's the point of replacing it. But I can't get it to work at all. Not for a moment. |
| 02:00.37 | rwp | However I have noticed that mixing versions and forks of client/server does end up with newer MariaDB clients sending options that error to older MySQL servers. |
| 02:00.51 | AgentHeX | No. It's a fresh Debian install in a virtual machine. |
| 02:01.30 | rwp | Hmm... Works for me. And I didn't even notice anything. |
| 02:01.41 | whislock | AgentHeX: Let me see if I can replicate your issue. |
| 02:01.53 | AgentHeX | Literally making me furious. Dozens of tutorials, and I can't get off the ground. I'm about to nuke the entire Debian instance and use something else. |
| 02:02.08 | rwp | Again if you can log into the 'mysql' command line access as the mariadb root user then you should be able to grant new credentials to the mysql users. |
| 02:02.23 | AgentHeX | rwp: How? I'm in the mysql command now. |
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| 02:03.53 | rwp | I'm looking for official docs I can reference. And starting up a new VM so I can ride along with you. |
| 02:04.07 | AgentHeX | ALTER USER 'root'@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY 'dumbpw'; ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax;... |
| 02:04.45 | whislock | SET PASSWORD = PASSWORD('supersecret'); |
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| 02:06.02 | AgentHeX | whislock: Query worked, but I still get "Access denied" when I try 'mysql' command from unprivileged user. |
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| 02:06.49 | AgentHeX | (And yes, 'mysql -u root -p'.) |
| 02:07.47 | rwp | For an unpriviledged user: GRANT ALL ON foo.* TO someuser@localhost IDENTIFIED BY 'somepass'; and then FLUSH PRIVILEGES; |
| 02:08.08 | whislock | AgentHeX: Ah, it's because root, by default, can only log on via unix socket. Thus, root account ONLY. |
| 02:08.18 | whislock | AgentHeX: You can change this, or create a new user. |
| 02:08.26 | AgentHeX | rwp: What I mean is, rather than running "mysql" as root, when I run "mysql -u root -p" it asks for password, but it is never right. |
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| 02:08.49 | AgentHeX | Ugh. |
| 02:08.56 | rwp | Then how is it that you are able to log into mysql as root? |
| 02:09.02 | whislock | rwp: Read what I just said. |
| 02:09.06 | rwp | My disk is spinning as I am installing mariadb... |
| 02:09.23 | whislock | The default, apparently, is root logs in as root via unix socket, not password. |
| 02:09.41 | whislock | So it can't be accessed from any other account, nor does its password matter for system user root. |
| 02:09.44 | rwp | You said: when I run "mysql -u root -p" it asks for password, but it is never right. [along with] you had logged in as root. |
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| 02:10.02 | rwp | Are you still running with --skip-grant-tables in effect? |
| 02:10.41 | whislock | AgentHeX: Anyway, that's your answer. Dump the users table, you'll see the 'plugin' field is set to 'unix_socket'. |
| 02:10.43 | AgentHeX | Yeah, confusing. I can log into the MariaDB "root" user with the system root account by executing "mysql" on the command line. If I am a normal user on the system, and I run "mysql -u root -p", then it will fail even with the right password. |
| 02:11.15 | whislock | Because the password is ignored when that plugin is set. |
| 02:11.31 | AgentHeX | They should really make that obvious, because it is incredibly infuriating to know that you did everything right and the software just throws it away and tells you you're wrong. |
| 02:11.42 | whislock | The docs should, but the error should not. |
| 02:11.48 | AgentHeX | Or that should NOT be default behavior. |
| 02:12.38 | whislock | The reason this was likely changed was to remove the debian-sys-maint MySQL user. |
| 02:13.00 | whislock | The root user can perform necessary package management/maintenance/upgrade tasks without a hard-coded password existing on the system. |
| 02:14.10 | rwp | I am still sure I am not in sync with you guys. I created a new VM. I installed mariadb-{client,server}. I logged in as root. I created a new db user. I "exit;". su - nonrootuser; mysql -u someuser -p, entered the password. All good. |
| 02:14.24 | aloo_shu | Sveta ksk real solar power, off grid |
| 02:14.39 | whislock | rwp: UPDATE user SET plugin = 'unix_socket' WHERE User = '<whatever>'; |
| 02:14.44 | whislock | rwp: Then try to log on to that user again. |
| 02:15.09 | whislock | rwp: If plugin = 'unix_socket', the password is meaningless. |
| 02:15.35 | rwp | Why would anyone set that? |
| 02:15.44 | rwp | And by default it is going to use a unix socket anyway. |
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| 02:16.19 | whislock | rwp: So that a system user can access a database user without requiring a hard-coded password. I literally just described a use case/reason for this. |
| 02:16.42 | rwp | My comment was a somewhat sarcastic reply to it... |
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| 02:17.17 | rwp | So if AgentHeX set that wouldn't that already be known that it was explicitly set? Because it doesn't seem to be a default. |
| 02:17.26 | whislock | That is the default for the root user. |
| 02:17.52 | rwp | But I thought the problem was that it wasn't possible to set up a nonroot user with a password! |
| 02:18.01 | whislock | No. The problem was logging in as root. |
| 02:18.11 | AgentHeX | whislock: Yeah, but I never saw anything online about needing to create a user account just to access the DB remotely. There is a setting in "mysql_secure_installation" for "Disallow root login remotely? [Y/n]" but it doesn't seem to do anything. |
| 02:18.47 | whislock | AgentHeX: That's the bog-standard mysql_secure_inst script that's existed since time immemorial. Debian, I believe, provides more secure defaults than that script would provide. |
| 02:19.20 | AgentHeX | That may be true, but nobody said anything about it, so getting it to work is a pain in the ass. |
| 02:19.44 | whislock | That, I agree with. Would be better to have a prompt or something during package install. |
| 02:20.18 | rwp | Thanks whislock. I learned something new today. |
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| 02:21.40 | AgentHeX | Oh well, adding a user account got it to work. I was just staging some JS code for a research project, and I needed a MySQL database to receive HTML post data. I didn't need anything secure. It just needed to work. I strongly suggest updating the default behavior (or the documentation to reflect the current state). Thanks for the help, guys! |
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| 02:25.29 | bmomjian | I am seeing odd behavior with UTF8 on Debian Jessie. For example, 'less' shows two-byte UTF characters fine but requires -r/raw to display 4-byte UTF characters literally, instead of as <U+1F62C>. Mutt has similar issues. I have UTF-8 defined in my environment, and I can edit files with vi just fine. Is this a know limitation of Debian Jessie. Does Debian 9 improve this? |
| 02:25.31 | whislock | AgentHeX: The default behavior is correct, honestly. The docs should reflect that. |
| 02:27.26 | AgentHeX | whislock: The docs should, but they don't. Thanks for the help. |
| 02:27.44 | mutante | bmomjian: you should upgrade separate from the issue. so i would say just do that and find out. no reason to stay on oldstable when buster is already frozen |
| 02:28.03 | mutante | and the direction should be towards better support |
| 02:28.32 | bmomjian | mutante: agreed I need to upgrade, but I never suspected that Debian 8 didn't have full UTF8 support. |
| 02:29.08 | mutante | bmomjian: yea, that would be new to me as well. i dont recall issues but the ones you describe are also very specific |
| 02:29.25 | mutante | you could dig into mutt changelogs |
| 02:30.13 | mutante | but i think literally answering your question requires digging through a bunch of tickets and changelogs |
| 02:31.06 | Abdullah | https://ptpb.pw/mZrt |
| 02:31.19 | Abdullah | I'm getting error while starting cronjobs |
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| 02:32.07 | bmomjian | Well, I originally thought it was mutt, so I got on that channel and asked around. I found the same problem on mutt head, so I dug into the code and saw the call the ncurses' addch() with the right value, but M-} or ^J was displayed. Then I noticed 'less' had the same issue, so I started to think it was a library issue. |
| 02:32.12 | bmomjian | I will probably upgrade in February. |
| 02:32.15 | bmomjian | should be easy |
| 02:33.27 | Abdullah | bmomjian: mutt errors? |
| 02:33.32 | bmomjian | I just added UTF8 support to microemacs 4.0 so I am kind of on the UTF-8 train right now. |
| 02:33.48 | bmomjian | Same inability to display 4-byte UTF8 characters as 'less'. |
| 02:33.56 | jmcnaught | the person with the problem is gone, but the mariadb root behaviour is documented in /usr/share/doc/mariadb-server-10.1/README.Debian.gz |
| 02:33.59 | mutante | bmomjian: you could almost consider doing 2 upgrade steps at once, jessie to buster |
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| 02:34.12 | mutante | buster won't change anymore |
| 02:34.14 | bmomjian | Oh, Buster. Hmm, I had not considered that. |
| 02:34.19 | mutante | until it becomes stable |
| 02:34.30 | Abdullah | bmomjian: set send_charset = utf-8 |
| 02:35.02 | bmomjian | yes, I have that ,and mutt -Q charset shows utf-8 |
| 02:35.52 | bmomjian | The email is here, sent and received my mutt, but the pager shows odd ascii like M-}: https://momjian.us/tmp/utf8.txt |
| 02:36.00 | Abdullah | so what's the error then? |
| 02:36.01 | bmomjian | Anyway, I will check after the upgrade. |
| 02:36.12 | Abdullah | btw I use vimpager for that |
| 02:36.19 | bmomjian | They are emoticons and should display that way. |
| 02:36.27 | bmomjian | yes, vimpager would work. |
| 02:36.27 | Abdullah | set pager = vim |
| 02:36.59 | Abdullah | I was on fuckin nixos so I'm trying to find out where I commented out my variables |
| 02:37.07 | Abdullah | for less |
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| 02:38.34 | Abdullah | so now I have figured it out. |
| 02:39.51 | Abdullah | I have an alias for less in my aliases file (you can put it in your .bashrc or .zshrc) alias less=/usr/share/vim/vim81/macros/less.sh |
| 02:40.07 | Abdullah | you can use vim80 if you have vim8.0 |
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| 02:40.49 | jmcnaught | view runs vim in read-only mode |
| 02:42.58 | Jmabsd | jelly: the GPU is on the bottommost PCI slot, what do you mean? |
| 02:43.09 | Jmabsd | jhutchins_wk: what's "erasers", you mean like cleaning liquid or something? |
| 02:43.37 | Jmabsd | blackflow: oh dear, oxidation of PCI connectors, okay hm! |
| 02:44.54 | rwp | bmomjian, I see utf8 okay in both less and mutt. I am a heavy mutt user. You have unicode iso10646 fonts installed? |
| 02:45.33 | Jmabsd | https://nl.farnell.com/kontakt-chemie/kontakt-pcc-200ml/cleaner-kontakt-lr-200ml/dp/2142400 some web site recommends this liquid for 'cleaning up PCB:s', interesting. |
| 02:46.27 | rwp | bmomjian, Also your locale needs to be generated and set to a UTF8 locale too such as LANG=en_US.UTF-8 or similar. |
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| 02:46.44 | Jmabsd | i think this computer has not been used much. also the GPU in question is new. for this reason, maybe the best thing to try is just to try another PCI slot. |
| 02:46.58 | Jmabsd | the above was followup on> https://pastebin.com/6dYkXNPq - got "GPU fallen off PCI bus" error on Debian. |
| 02:47.53 | bmomjian | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:48.40 | bmomjian | less and mutt know they can't display them; mutt converts to ^J and M-} while less uses <U+...>, unless you use less -r, which displays fine. |
| 02:49.29 | bmomjian | and both display 2-byte UTF8 just fine by default. |
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| 02:52.26 | pagetelegram | Hi all, I am close (I think) to getting my wifi working. here is output of wpa_supplicant. klys was helping me gracefully last night though I think he is busy now. here is the output: https://termbin.com/pk4n |
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| 02:58.00 | rant | pagetelegram: you could start by explaining if your wifi is pci or usb, and what the vend/prod id codes are |
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| 03:04.22 | pagetelegram | My memory does not serve me well, bare with me while I retrace what I did yesterday with klys help |
| 03:05.19 | dvs | rant: ipw2200 |
| 03:05.58 | pagetelegram | Subsystem: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 2915ABG [Calexico2] Network Connection |
| 03:06.00 | rant | thats a driver :P |
| 03:06.06 | rant | and thats a name.. not an id |
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| 03:07.01 | pagetelegram | cfg80211 450560 3 ipw2200,iwlwifi,libipw ? |
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| 03:07.59 | pagetelegram | I remember getting the ID just don't remember the command |
| 03:08.16 | rant | pagetelegram: lspci -nn |
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| 03:08.46 | rant | the -nn will show the names but also show the ID in [1234:abcd] format |
| 03:09.12 | pagetelegram | Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 2915ABG [Calexico2] Network Connection [8086:4223] (rev 05) |
| 03:10.27 | rant | I ask this because I personally have seen odd things recently like adapters that don't work with the predictable interface names.. they APPEAR to work.. list APs, attempt to connect.. etc.. and these sorts of problems require more specific info like that ID and revision to run down |
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| 03:21.07 | pagetelegram | So I maybe sol |
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| 03:26.12 | bmomjian | This bug report for Debian Jessie says less doesn't understand Unicode 6.0 and the characters that don't display were added in that version --- that would explain it, and I am guessing mutt has a similar issue through ncurses: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=597918 |
| 03:26.13 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/597918 in less (open, upstream): «less should support new Unicode characters (> 5.0.0)»; severity: normal; opened: 2010-09-24; last modified: 2010-10-12. |
| 03:26.25 | rant | pagetelegram: which kernel are you using? uname -r |
| 03:27.28 | phazon | shouldn't only one of those be loaded? ipw2200 or iwlwifi, but not both? |
| 03:28.24 | rant | phazon: it /is/ possible to have more than one device and driver |
| 03:29.57 | rant | though from what I'm seeing the 8086:4223 is NOT supported by iwlwifi |
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| 03:33.16 | rant | though I suspect the problem here is a bug.. though I'm not sure if its a kernel or firmware bug as the information I'm finding is sketchy to say the least |
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| 03:34.24 | rant | ,v ipw2x00 |
| 03:34.25 | judd | No package named 'ipw2x00' was found in amd64. |
| 03:34.39 | rant | ,v firmware-ipw2x00 |
| 03:34.40 | judd | Package: firmware-ipw2x00 on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 0.36+wheezy.1; jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-backports/non-free: 20161130-3~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-4; stretch-backports/non-free: 20180825+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-1; sid/non-free: 20190114-1 |
| 03:35.01 | rant | I personally would recommend trying both the kernel and the firmware from stretch-backports for this |
| 03:35.12 | rant | perhaps one at a time to figure out which is the issue |
| 03:35.17 | phazon | pagetelegram: ^^ |
| 03:35.47 | pagetelegram | was distracted for moment. Checking now. thanks |
| 03:36.15 | rant | the firmware and kernel in backports is about 2 years newer |
| 03:36.52 | rant | and while the various forums and bug reports I've read for this card are unclear, they are all solved/closed which suggests some newer code will resolve the issue |
| 03:37.53 | pagetelegram | oh thank you, so I just add the suffix "backports" to the repo lists? What does one of those lines look like? |
| 03:38.26 | pagetelegram | to my sources list |
| 03:38.55 | dvs | !stretch backports |
| 03:38.55 | dpkg | Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with "Stretch" (9.x) can be found in the "stretch-backports" repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . A suitable line for your sources.list is "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main". Also ask me about <bdo>. |
| 03:39.48 | phazon | pagetelegram: you'll need to add 'non-free' instead of just 'main' to pull in the firmware |
| 03:40.26 | pagetelegram | do I just add these lines or am I also replacing the stretch lines? |
| 03:40.38 | phazon | you add them |
| 03:41.13 | dvs | do not replace |
| 03:42.29 | pagetelegram | alright updating now |
| 03:44.24 | pagetelegram | firmware-ipw2x00 is already the newest version (20161130-4) |
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| 03:45.59 | dvs | The one in backports is 20180825 |
| 03:46.04 | pagetelegram | https://termbin.com/xxep |
| 03:46.18 | pagetelegram | ^ my sources.list |
| 03:49.17 | phazon | pagetelegram: you have to manually specify the pkg should be installed from backports |
| 03:49.43 | dvs | pagetelegram, if you are using apt, you need to add the "-t stretch-backports" option to the install command |
| 03:50.54 | pagetelegram | ah ok I would not have known to do that thanks |
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| 03:51.50 | phazon | pagetelegram: it's on the linked instructions page... :-) |
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| 03:56.11 | pagetelegram | still getting driver failed error on wpa_supplicant |
| 03:56.22 | pagetelegram | Should I uninstall the other driver |
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| 03:56.30 | pagetelegram | the iwiwifi one |
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| 03:56.54 | phazon | pagetelegram: i would; it doesnt seem to be supported by your hardware anyway |
| 03:57.08 | rant | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:57.11 | rant | erm |
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| 03:57.35 | phazon | i think someone else had them install it the other day |
| 03:57.48 | rant | first of all quit saying install |
| 03:57.51 | pagetelegram | Might have |
| 03:57.54 | rant | its part of the kernel.. |
| 03:57.58 | rant | you load it, you dont install it |
| 03:58.18 | rant | if you didnt load it, you have another problem |
| 03:58.53 | pagetelegram | Not since restart...though yesterday I might have. Is there command to check what drivers are loaded? |
| 03:59.02 | rant | lsmod |
| 03:59.15 | rant | if its auto loading that driver you have another problem |
| 03:59.26 | phazon | i meant install the pkg, not load the module |
| 03:59.44 | rant | there is no package.. thats firmware not the drive |
| 04:00.08 | rant | firmware is just code that is copied onto a piece of hardware BY a driver |
| 04:00.15 | pagetelegram | cfg80211 450560 2 ipw2200,libipw |
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| 04:00.40 | phazon | ,v firmware-iwlwifi |
| 04:00.41 | judd | Package: firmware-iwlwifi on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 0.36+wheezy.1; jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-backports/non-free: 20161130-3~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-4; stretch-backports/non-free: 20180825+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-1; sid/non-free: 20190114-1 |
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| 04:01.07 | rant | the presence of that package has absolutely nothing to do with the loading or unloading of the module |
| 04:01.34 | rant | you can install all the firmware you want, it does nothing without a driver loading it onto the device |
| 04:02.01 | pagetelegram | How can I remove it from the kernel is there an unmod? |
| 04:02.14 | dvs | modprobe -r |
| 04:02.18 | pagetelegram | thanks |
| 04:02.19 | rant | rmmod or modprobe -r and if its not loaded it doesnt matter |
| 04:02.24 | Jmabsd | How do you disable the firewire modules, I tried this https://pastebin.com/HVygSny2 and it did not work |
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| 04:03.24 | rant | loading of modules means loading them into memory they are only loaded for that one particular boot, the only issue here is if something is loading it automatically either as a bug or something someone else told you to do |
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| 04:04.12 | rant | which is why its important we not confuse terms.. firmware is not a driver, and the intel wifi drivers are part of the kernel not installed, merely loaded |
| 04:05.01 | Jmabsd | https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/4098/how-to-disable-firewire-in-openbsd-linux-to-prevent-attacks-through-firewire says after adding the blacklist, do "update-initramfs -k all -u", *trying* |
| 04:05.04 | rant | I have no idea what was done before.. but mixing of terms makes me think someone had you grab 3rd party source and compile something that tainted the system |
| 04:05.09 | Jmabsd | also, how do I add an on-boot script? |
| 04:05.52 | rant | Jmabsd: perhaps you mean a systemd one-shot kinda thing.. |
| 04:06.02 | Jmabsd | rant: yeah, run a script once on each boot |
| 04:06.50 | rant | Jmabsd: https://wiki.debian.org/systemd/Services https://gist.github.com/drmalex07/d006f12914b21198ee43 |
| 04:07.07 | rant | the latter shows an example of a oneshot |
| 04:07.26 | rant | the former explains how debian handles services |
| 04:07.33 | pagetelegram | iwlist scan works...it can communicate with the wifi device to query networks |
| 04:08.02 | rant | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:08.21 | pagetelegram | not the kernel. Firmware yes, that's been updated successfully |
| 04:08.35 | rant | you would need to reload the driver for firmware changes to take effect |
| 04:08.39 | dvs | it needs both |
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| 04:08.45 | rant | firmware is loaded onto the device at runtime |
| 04:09.03 | rant | doesnt matter if it changed on disk, its not used on disk, its used on the hardware itself |
| 04:09.09 | pagetelegram | ahhh how do I install the kernel from apt? I have never done that before I assume tho with the -t switch |
| 04:09.23 | rant | pagetelegram: what does uname -r say? |
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| 04:09.42 | pagetelegram | 4.9.0-8-686-pae |
| 04:09.56 | dvs | not a backport kernel |
| 04:09.57 | rant | pagetelegram: apt install -t stretch-backports linux-image-686-pae |
| 04:10.05 | rant | pagetelegram: are you on really old hardware? |
| 04:10.28 | pagetelegram | yeah Pentium M....it's a panasonic CF-29 toughbook...WinXP era |
| 04:10.36 | rant | ah |
| 04:10.43 | dvs | O_O |
| 04:10.57 | rant | then yes, you would use a 32bit kernel like the 686-pae |
| 04:11.10 | rant | seems odd you have what seems to be a newer wifi card though :P |
| 04:11.30 | pagetelegram | I assume when the update of kernel is done I will need to issue a reboot. |
| 04:11.39 | dvs | yes |
| 04:11.41 | rant | thats certainly one way to do it :P |
| 04:12.05 | pagetelegram | I don't know if there are others, I may exit stage left for a moment |
| 04:12.07 | rant | you could also issue a coupla kexec calls but a reboot is simpler :P |
| 04:12.22 | pagetelegram | oh O_O |
| 04:13.23 | rant | iirc kexec was added in 2.6, allows you to load a new kernel into memory and jump to it.. effect is mostly same as reboot but no BIOS/bootloader involvement |
| 04:14.28 | pagetelegram | it's spitting at all my ttys, luckly f-irc F5 redraws the screen. |
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| 04:16.49 | pagetelegram | Already to reboot. Hope I make it back here. Fingers crossed |
| 04:18.38 | dvs | runs away |
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| 04:21.09 | pagetelegram | Updated kernal to 19. However my pasting with gpm not working |
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| 04:21.54 | pagetelegram | just reload gpm seems working now |
| 04:22.15 | pagetelegram | 4.19.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae |
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| 04:23.25 | teardown | hi. have a system running debian 8 ppc, which i use for audio stuff. it has a four pci sound cards, an onboard intel sound card, and a usb sound card as well. the problem is that only the four pci cards are detected by alsa and pulse audio, even after i load the driver for the usb audio interface |
| 04:24.31 | pagetelegram | driver fail again and wlp6s2: CTRL-EVENT-SSID-TEMP-DISABLED id=0 ssid="Page Telegram Guest" auth_failures=2 duration=20 reason=CONN_FAILED |
| 04:24.47 | teardown | why wont the usb interface show up in /proc/asound/cards after i load it's driver module |
| 04:25.30 | rant | !ppc |
| 04:25.30 | dpkg | PowerPC is a <RISC> architecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC). See "Debian for PowerPC" at http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc . Debian CDs are not (and cannot be made) bootable on Old World PowerMacs. Information on proper partitioning is at http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/doc/mac-fdisk-basics.txt . See also <macsound>, <yaboot>, <quik>, <bootx>, <ppc64>. #debianppc on irc.oftc.net and irc.freenode.net. |
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| 04:26.10 | pagetelegram | I remember doing all that on G3 G4 and once on a G5 |
| 04:26.24 | pagetelegram | Leopard was last PPC support |
| 04:26.34 | rant | yeah ppc support was dropped |
| 04:26.43 | teardown | yeah. a few years back |
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| 04:27.21 | rant | generic advice would be to look at dmesg, /var/log/messages, or such might give some clues |
| 04:27.35 | pagetelegram | oh well...there are die hards I'm sure as I checked years ago some folks still keeping a browser mozilla based going for the old classic (pre OS/x) called Classizilla |
| 04:27.42 | pagetelegram | thanks |
| 04:28.04 | rant | that was meant for the alsa issue, but it wouldnt hurt in your case either :P |
| 04:28.59 | teardown | yeah, but it looks like a kernel updates still rolled out for ppc as of may |
| 04:29.19 | teardown | thanks rant, i'll look at those logs |
| 04:30.06 | pagetelegram | https://termbin.com/u4j3 <- my log file, guess this a boot log (messages)? |
| 04:30.50 | rant | bah.. I just screwed up vlc cause this keyboard doesnt type on the screen I'm looking at :P |
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| 04:31.12 | ryouma | last ppc was jessie i thought |
| 04:31.39 | dvs | ipw2200 0000:06:02.0: Direct firmware load for ipw2200-bss.fw failed with error -2 |
| 04:31.44 | pagetelegram | There maybe forks out there for the RISC-PPC diehards. Reduced Instruction Set for the Risky folks. |
| 04:31.49 | rant | yes and also that log shows you have network manager |
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| 04:32.29 | rant | these failure to connect with wpa supplicant issues are often due to configuration problems and having a network manager running could be interferring.. you should either let nm handle it or stop nm |
| 04:32.47 | pagetelegram | I'll stop nm |
| 04:32.52 | rant | but first you need to get the firmware loading properly |
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| 04:33.38 | teardown | yes ironically, my risky system was immune when spectre hit, heh |
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| 04:34.16 | pagetelegram | nm not loaded in ps output. I just uninstalled it tho |
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| 04:35.44 | dvs | ipw2200 0000:06:02.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware ipw2200-bss.fw |
| 04:35.45 | rant | systemctl stop network-manager |
| 04:36.05 | rant | but as dvs has re-iterated your bigger issue right now is that the firmware didnt load |
| 04:36.27 | rant | dpkg -l firmware-ipw2x00 |
| 04:36.27 | dpkg | No packages found matching firmware-ipw2x00 |
| 04:36.30 | dvs | rant, it seems to have later on in the log file |
| 04:36.40 | rant | ah |
| 04:36.47 | rant | thats rather odd |
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| 04:37.04 | dvs | there are several attempts in that log |
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| 04:37.17 | rant | ah this log is several days worth |
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| 04:37.34 | rant | spans like 4 days |
| 04:38.03 | Iarfen | hi! |
| 04:38.31 | pagetelegram | reinstall required? |
| 04:38.42 | Iarfen | to install with ./configure globally, not under /usr/local, how I can do it? |
| 04:38.44 | pagetelegram | Kinda hard to know what that output means |
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| 04:41.10 | phazon | pagetelegram: does your access point accept 802.11b/g connections, or is it set to 802.11n only? |
| 04:41.51 | rant | I'd try booting with net.ifnames=0 personally after having seen an older card I have not work with the predictable names with the same error |
| 04:42.15 | pagetelegram | connection success! |
| 04:42.15 | rant | though I believe there is a sys interface to disable them for now too |
| 04:42.41 | pagetelegram | Ok I am going to pull the plug (eth0) 3,2,1... |
| 04:42.52 | dvs | *boom* |
| 04:43.39 | pagetelegram | yo |
| 04:43.48 | dvs | did you hear something? |
| 04:44.05 | pagetelegram | wlp6s2: CTRL-EVENT-CONNECTED - Connection to 22:10:7a:a6:d5:df completed [id=0 id_str=] however I could not ping google |
| 04:44.15 | pagetelegram | wire is back in |
| 04:44.23 | rant | did you dhclient? |
| 04:44.44 | pagetelegram | yep, checking that now |
| 04:45.05 | pagetelegram | last output : bound to 192.168.1.12 -- renewal in 42016 seconds. |
| 04:45.56 | pagetelegram | Should I restart with no eth connection and try loading wifi connection again? |
| 04:46.57 | pagetelegram | I'll be back. Safe word is if f-irc loads on wifi alone, hello world/2 |
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| 04:54.08 | pagetelegram | Hello World/2 |
| 04:54.22 | pagetelegram | still ping google.com does not work |
| 04:54.35 | pagetelegram | though Irc connected me without a wire |
| 04:54.46 | pagetelegram | Someone write something so I know for sure I'm connected |
| 04:54.58 | rant | dpkg, test |
| 04:54.58 | dpkg | Test failed. |
| 04:55.14 | pagetelegram | lol ok I'm in, wirelessly! |
| 04:56.19 | pagetelegram | A task for another day...get my linmodem to work. Or if ya up for it we can dig in it now. I got the latest linux driver for it though from 2003. |
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| 04:56.34 | pagetelegram | Just header compile errors. |
| 04:57.18 | pagetelegram | That is main reason I setup this laptop. If I can't get the modem to work which I plan for fax blasting then I will just get some PCMCIA one that does. |
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| 04:58.01 | pagetelegram | Or a PCMCIA USB and a USB linux happy modem. |
| 04:58.40 | pagetelegram | Thank you all though, Rant and DV especially and to kyls from yesterday. I can now go console linux at McDonalds. |
| 04:59.07 | Jmabsd | argh, how disable firewire .... |
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| 05:00.18 | pagetelegram | You may be able to disable from BIOS, check that first. Otherwise based on what I learned you need to rmmod the device driver. |
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| 05:02.10 | rant | Jmabsd: give the output of lsmod, uname -r on paste.debian.net |
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| 05:04.03 | Jmabsd | rant: https://pastebin.com/JeLcAkeH |
| 05:04.10 | rant | ugh |
| 05:04.41 | Jmabsd | see, firewire_ohci and firewire_core load anyhow, even though i tried the above thing |
| 05:05.49 | rant | I may see.. eventually.. since you used a damn pastebin rife with javascript, ads, etc.. |
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| 05:05.58 | Jmabsd | sec |
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| 05:06.42 | Jmabsd | rant: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/ec3323a5/ |
| 05:09.04 | Jmabsd | rant: any thought? the pages i read online say if you add the word "blacklist [modulename]" to any file in that dir, and then do the initramfs thing, then those modules should indeed be blacklisted, yet they still load .. |
| 05:09.48 | rant | well the main problems I see being that you used pastebin.com and that paste contains some random link.. is that you're not doing things the debian way.. |
| 05:10.05 | Jmabsd | rant: you have the debian paste now too ? |
| 05:10.08 | rant | yes |
| 05:10.19 | Jmabsd | the link in there is to some online QA site suggesting how to achieve this |
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| 05:10.25 | rant | this is where you should've gotten your info from https://wiki.debian.org/KernelModuleBlacklisting |
| 05:10.50 | rant | however even that is a bit outdated |
| 05:11.44 | rant | that whole cat << foo > bar crap is just asinine |
| 05:12.08 | rant | the minute I saw something like that I'd stop taking advice from that person :P |
| 05:12.11 | Jmabsd | oh cool! it says run "depmod -ae" |
| 05:12.54 | Jmabsd | the debian.org page says "Thanks to xingu and liable on irc #debian." (y) |
| 05:13.18 | Jmabsd | rant: lol why?? (the cat thing) |
| 05:13.23 | Jmabsd | it's producing a file |
| 05:13.30 | rant | so is cat foo > bar |
| 05:13.39 | rant | or echo foo > bar |
| 05:13.44 | Jmabsd | heredocs are clean practices? |
| 05:14.33 | Jmabsd | ok let's see if it worked |
| 05:14.53 | Jmabsd | NOO. duh. |
| 05:15.39 | Jmabsd | rant: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/2f6bc768/ look at this, after reboot, total crap |
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| 05:15.56 | Jmabsd | "modprobe --showconfig | grep blacklist" confirms that firmware_core|ohci are blacklisted, but dmesg still shows firmware loaded |
| 05:16.04 | Jmabsd | also the modprobe doesn't fail with "uh oh blacklisted bye" error |
| 05:18.06 | Jmabsd | i'll try the fake install route |
| 05:19.12 | Jmabsd | echo "install firewire_core /bin/true" > /etc/modprobe.d/firewire_core.conf |
| 05:19.13 | Jmabsd | echo "install firewire_ohci /bin/true" > /etc/modprobe.d/firewire_ohci.conf |
| 05:19.13 | Jmabsd | reboot |
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| 05:22.30 | Jmabsd | ARWWW, rant also this route does not work, duh. |
| 05:23.01 | Jmabsd | any thoughts? |
| 05:23.13 | Jmabsd | rant: i understand that debian ships firewire in module form |
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| 05:23.57 | rant | yes I have some thoughts but you were too busy thinking and doing so I figured I'd just wait :P |
| 05:24.26 | rant | you seem to know a good bit.. trying to work around a frantic person that knows just enough to be dangerous is usually futile |
| 05:24.35 | Jmabsd | rant: lol. i'll try to add the " |
| 05:24.35 | Jmabsd | depmod -ae |
| 05:24.36 | Jmabsd | update-initramfs -u |
| 05:24.36 | Jmabsd | " too |
| 05:24.41 | Jmabsd | rant: what are your thoughts =) ) |
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| 05:24.50 | rant | sighs |
| 05:24.56 | Jmabsd | rant: i'll wait 60min for your thoughts =))) |
| 05:25.06 | rant | Jmabsd: that stuff all only maters if your module is being loaded in initramfs |
| 05:25.21 | rant | you are probably aware of the fact that some modules depend on other |
| 05:25.53 | rant | and you seem to be trying all manner of way to blacklist ones that are obviously related to firewire |
| 05:26.15 | Jmabsd | wait |
| 05:26.17 | rant | however according to your lsmod output you have modules you're ignoring entirely which DEPEND on firewire modules you're trying to blacklist :P |
| 05:26.29 | Jmabsd | it worked! |
| 05:26.51 | rant | I also have the thought that nobody has seemed to update module blacklisting stuff in AGES |
| 05:27.12 | Jmabsd | rant: this is what worked: http://paste.debian.net/1062412/ |
| 05:27.32 | Jmabsd | rant: oh! (dependencies) |
| 05:27.46 | rant | nods |
| 05:27.58 | Jmabsd | rant: crc_itu_t depends on firewire |
| 05:28.02 | rant | nods |
| 05:28.35 | Jmabsd | well, the new way i did it now (in the last paste) actually finally successfully disabled loading firewire modules, so the way i did it now was overriding. |
| 05:28.48 | Jmabsd | but anyhow, i should probably add that crc_itu_t to the blacklist too. |
| 05:29.04 | rant | well.. if you wanna overkill :P |
| 05:29.27 | rant | its still loading them.. its just not succeeding but doesnt know it |
| 05:29.41 | Jmabsd | rant: why-this-is-overkill would be nice to learn from the Wiki |
| 05:30.10 | rant | well my thought is, if you'd blacklisted the right modules properly in the first place it'd have worked |
| 05:30.31 | rant | what you did told it basically when it tries to load those modules just make it think it succeeded |
| 05:30.47 | rant | so you still got a module loading which is trying to load those and thinks its succeeding |
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| 05:31.25 | Jmabsd | http://paste.debian.net/1062413/ so. |
| 05:31.49 | rant | shrugs.. you got me thinking in circles and I'm dizzy :P |
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| 05:35.17 | pagetelegram | I know I can nc into termbin.com....any suggestion for image sharing? Don't have a need to share images yet just want to be prepared incase I do. |
| 05:35.39 | pagetelegram | ^console only btw |
| 05:38.32 | seanicus | pagetelegram: imgur has an api for that |
| 05:38.38 | seanicus | or used to, years ago |
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| 05:56.20 | rant | pagetelegram: wget -O imgur.sh https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tremby/imgur.sh/master/imgur.sh |
| 05:58.27 | pagetelegram | THanks rant! |
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| 06:16.57 | blingrang | Hi, how can I install the NVMe module? |
| 06:17.38 | blingrang | Looking for a doc or something, anything to point me in the right direction will do. |
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| 06:21.36 | Jmabsd | rant: i got it working anyhow. you inspired me with the confidence it's doable, and it was, also thank you for the more authoritative reference :D |
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| 07:08.11 | Someguy123 | hey guys, is it possible to mirror only the files required for a debootstrap? |
| 07:09.34 | Someguy123 | we don't have the disk space to mirror the entire repos of debian/ubuntu, but mirroring the packages required for a minimal debootstrap installation would help us save bandwidth with our automatic installations |
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| 07:13.42 | rwp | Sure. You can do that. |
| 07:15.05 | Someguy123 | rwp: the question is how? |
| 07:15.20 | Someguy123 | I've tried googling, but can't really find any clear answers |
| 07:15.29 | rwp | Simply turn the downloaded packages into a repository. I suggest reprepro. |
| 07:15.33 | rwp | Additionally you might look into apt-cacher-ng for a caching proxy. |
| 07:15.36 | rwp | https://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~bloch/acng/ |
| 07:15.41 | rwp | That's probably simpler. |
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| 07:16.28 | rwp | Also remember that debootstrap uses wget and therefore all of the docs on setting up wget for proxying and such applies. |
| 07:16.39 | Someguy123 | ah, I suppose a caching proxy could work |
| 07:17.23 | rwp | And also you can run debootstrap in two phases. You could somewhere set up debootstrap --download-only to prepare the directory. |
| 07:17.46 | rwp | The stash that on a LAN server accessible with rsync. Then later just rsync that directory and then activate phase two. |
| 07:18.07 | Someguy123 | we've considered setting up a full mirror, but the disk space requirements aren't the most clear |
| 07:18.16 | rwp | Or stash the fully debootstrapped copy on that same rsync server and then just copy in the finished debootstrap installation. |
| 07:18.33 | rwp | For what architecture? |
| 07:19.01 | Someguy123 | sadly this seems to apply to most distros, the wiki for mirroring generally has a rough estimate that's outdated |
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| 07:19.25 | Someguy123 | rwp: we'd probably only bother mirroring amd64 |
| 07:19.42 | rwp | Since the repository is always getting updated it is hard to say more than that it is bigger than some X at day Y. |
| 07:19.45 | Someguy123 | we don't have any legacy 32-bit hardware, and don't plan to get any |
| 07:20.07 | rwp | Running a du on my Stretch mirror to see how big it is. It will take a few moments to finish. |
| 07:20.13 | Someguy123 | okay, thanks |
| 07:21.32 | rwp | 186G /srv/debian/mirror/9.ftp.debian.org/debian/ for a full mirror including source. |
| 07:22.55 | Someguy123 | hmmm, seems a debian mirror isn't too bad |
| 07:23.08 | rwp | I think if you are doing repeated installations that the fastest would be to rsync a copy of a finished install onto the new system. |
| 07:23.13 | Someguy123 | nowhere near as bad as ubuntu which was already approaching 1TB a few years ago according to their wiki |
| 07:23.35 | rwp | Then finish it with a grub-install. And other customization for hostname and so forth. |
| 07:24.24 | Someguy123 | rwp: yeah, the plan is to mirror as much as possible, as it would be integrated into our installation system, we're a bare metal server provider |
| 07:24.56 | Someguy123 | gotta get ourselves a bigger fileserver |
| 07:25.21 | rwp | No truer words were ever spoken by everyone! "The steady state of disks is full." --Ken Thompson |
| 07:26.27 | Someguy123 | for now, we only have 2x 4TB HDDs (raid1) + 2x 240gb SSDs (used for vm boot disks, and ZFS ZIL caching) |
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| 07:27.50 | Someguy123 | rwp: could you run a du on the amd64 archive for deb9 ? |
| 07:27.54 | rwp | You can also create a disk image that is small for the fastest copy onto the target and then do an online resize to the full actual size of the partition. |
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| 07:28.44 | rwp | Someguy123, I did the du already. That was the line I pasted. Did you want the details without the -s? I can do that. |
| 07:28.46 | Someguy123 | rwp: we had considered that, though I couldn't find any pre-made boot images |
| 07:29.04 | Someguy123 | rwp: ah, so is that for amd64 only? |
| 07:29.19 | rwp | Right. I asked and you said amd64. That was amd64 only. |
| 07:29.30 | Someguy123 | okay thanks |
| 07:29.31 | rwp | Let me double check... |
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| 07:30.00 | rwp | Oops. Sorry. That is both amd64 and i386 both. |
| 07:30.07 | Someguy123 | I wonder how much space could be saved by our use of fs-level lz4/lzo |
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| 07:30.22 | rwp | Therefore source will be shared but binaries will be separate. |
| 07:30.36 | rwp | debs are already compressed. |
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| 07:30.53 | Someguy123 | btrfs's fs-level lzo/lz4 compression is pretty fun, it actually improves read performance even with our rather ancient CPU |
| 07:31.08 | Someguy123 | helping us to make better use of our 10gbit link :) |
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| 07:32.24 | rwp | For a self-service installation I have previously set up a PXE boot installation. Took about 12-15 minutes to install a full desktop on a moderate performance workstation. |
| 07:32.50 | rwp | But if you are a bare metal provider then I would seriously consider caching a fully installed image and simply rsync'ing it onto the target. |
| 07:33.04 | Someguy123 | rwp: lz4/lzo adds very little overhead (if anything, it increases performance), can't really hurt much |
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| 07:33.45 | rwp | Well... I say benchmark it and if it helps then great. I wouldn't expect much though because debs are already compressed. |
| 07:33.58 | Someguy123 | rwp: currently we use MAAS for PXE installation, however it has it's limitations, so we're starting on our own installation system for various distros |
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| 07:34.57 | Someguy123 | one of the best ways is probably just to do `debootstrap --download-only` as you recommended |
| 07:35.23 | rwp | For the fully installed image and rsyncing it I would reduce it to a minimum size and then use online resizing to expand it after getting it copied to the target. |
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| 07:36.26 | rwp | Actually... you are debootstrapping it onto a file system already. So no need for the online resizing I just mentioned. That was silly of me. The file system would already be fullsized so that isn't needed. |
| 07:36.28 | Someguy123 | our fileserver is equipped with NFS, http, https, and rsync, we were planning on doing like a certain provider I won't name, and use the NFS to avoid having to copy images into the rescue system |
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| 07:37.32 | rwp | I would put my first choice on rsync from an rsync server as the fastest to get things copied. But I have been surprised before. |
| 07:37.59 | Someguy123 | rwp: the fastest in our experience is plain old http |
| 07:38.07 | Someguy123 | with http we can saturate the 10gbps link completely |
| 07:38.25 | Someguy123 | with rsync, we can maybe get 1-2gbps maximum |
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| 07:38.53 | Someguy123 | NFS offers similar performance to rsync, about 1-2gbps |
| 07:38.56 | rwp | There is no substitute for real benchmarks. |
| 07:39.08 | rwp | NFS doesn't surprise me. It is high latency driven. |
| 07:39.57 | rwp | What are you using to pull it from http? Something like wget --mirror? |
| 07:40.19 | Someguy123 | rwp: in my benchmarks, it involves a 160gb blockchain file we mirror for our users |
| 07:40.27 | Someguy123 | generally, wget -O /dev/null |
| 07:40.35 | Someguy123 | and rsync to /dev/shm ramdisk |
| 07:40.46 | Someguy123 | since you can't rsync to /dev/null |
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| 07:41.17 | rwp | Well... That isn't quite apples to apples then. Because that 160gb blob would need to still be split into files and written to disk. A lot of overhead is opening files and closing files. |
| 07:41.56 | Someguy123 | of course, when transferring a lot of files, I generally use rsync |
| 07:42.12 | Someguy123 | I mean in general, I use rsync for most file transfer purposes |
| 07:42.31 | rwp | If you want that then a blob that is a disk partition image streamed to disk. And then we are back to online resizing again. :-) |
| 07:42.48 | Someguy123 | in the case of our 160gb file, we noticed considerable performance boosts when using plain http, and so recommended that to people using that mirror |
| 07:43.02 | Someguy123 | even though we offer https, https reduces the speed to 1gbps max |
| 07:43.21 | Someguy123 | that's sort-of the fault of our rather old CPU |
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| 07:44.40 | Someguy123 | rwp: our main concern with just using `debootstrap --download-only` is keeping it up to date |
| 07:44.58 | Someguy123 | is updating the debootstrap copy as simple as just running it again? |
| 07:45.13 | rwp | I don't know. I haven't tried it. |
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| 07:45.25 | rwp | Probably. |
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| 07:46.56 | rwp | Is it supposed to be a minimum install? If so then you could build the debootstrap --download fresh every day and it wouldn't be a big deal. |
| 07:47.40 | Someguy123 | rwp: well yes, any additional customisation would be done on the system being installed, by the installation system |
| 07:48.03 | Someguy123 | plus we don't really want our file server doing strange things like chrooting and apt install'ing things every day |
| 07:48.43 | Someguy123 | I'm thinking a weekly download would probably work, I mean the install system would `apt upgrade` anyway |
| 07:48.57 | rwp | So a stretch debootstrap --download-only is 86M which doesn't take long to download. Could do that fresh every day if you wished. |
| 07:51.40 | rwp | Looking at the details debootstrap --download-only is pre-populating ./var/cache/apt/archives with the debs just like a regular system. |
| 07:52.07 | rwp | Which means you could mirror that from a regular system. Use 'apt-get autoclean' to remove debs that were replaced with updated ones. |
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| 07:55.09 | rwp | Timed --download-only from my local mirror here took 17 seconds to copy over that 86M of data. The second phase is still running. But obviously data copy time is insignificant to the entire time of unpacking. |
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| 07:55.28 | rwp | Which is why I think an rsync of the installed file system will still be fastest. |
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| 07:56.14 | rwp | 2m39 for the rest of the debootsrap run where it unpacks the files and runs the postinst scripts. |
| 07:56.33 | rwp | Unpacks to 272M of file system. |
| 07:57.47 | Someguy123 | ahh, okay, so if a normal debootstrap is only 86M, that's not so bad |
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| 07:57.54 | Someguy123 | daily would be no issue |
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| 08:03.18 | rwp | Setting up a test of a fully debootstrap'd image on my rsync server and then using rsync to copy it. 0m5.865s total time. Compared to 2m39 for doing the unpacking and postinst running. |
| 08:03.33 | rwp | That is the 272M of unpacked files. |
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| 08:03.46 | rwp | That's why I think rsync for the final image would be a win. |
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| 08:04.19 | rwp | Someguy123, ^^ |
| 08:04.21 | Someguy123 | yeah I think rsync would work fine for that |
| 08:04.55 | Someguy123 | at this point I've already set up NFS though, and will probably come in handy for larger images |
| 08:05.03 | rwp | It's getting late here. Best thing is to try several different things and see which one works out best for you. |
| 08:05.06 | rwp | Good luck! And good night! |
| 08:05.11 | Someguy123 | thanks for the help rwp |
| 08:05.13 | Someguy123 | good night |
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| 08:09.46 | rwp | Someguy123, Just remembered something... If you fully deboostrap all with an sshd server installed it will have generated host keys. Cloning those would make all host keys identical. So would definitely want to remove the cached host keys and ensure those are generated uniquely for each deployed image. Otherwise they would all be the same! That would be bad. |
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| 08:15.57 | Someguy123 | rwp: yup, I'm aware of digitalocean's mistake in the past, they did exactly that |
| 08:16.14 | Someguy123 | that's one reason a debootstrap may be better |
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| 08:16.45 | rwp | Digital Ocean did that previously? I did not know that. Oops! |
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| 08:20.37 | pagetelegram | I have a file name that begins with an ' I have no idea how to call it from the console. I want to aaxine 'ArcaOS (the new OS_2) Review' - Lunduke Hour - June 6, 2017-0PZE_swqO5U.webm and that ' is stopping me. |
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| 08:21.27 | rwp | pagetelegram, ls is fooling you. It is adding that ' but it is not part of the file. This is a recent (bad) coreutils change. |
| 08:21.34 | klys | pagetelegram, ls "\'<tab> |
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| 08:21.55 | rwp | pagetelegram, Try this: ls -l ./Arc<TAB> and let the tab expand the filename. |
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| 08:22.18 | well_laid_lawn | !tab |
| 08:22.19 | dpkg | tab is probably part of the varndean crew, slightly slimy at times though, or a very old diet soda. tabtabtab, or what reasonably intelligent irc clients will let you use to recall the nick that most recently posted something in a channel. |
| 08:22.41 | well_laid_lawn | that's not what I expected |
| 08:22.57 | klys | ~tab |
| 08:22.57 | apt | somebody said tab was part of the varndean crew, slightly slimy at times though, or how much one owes at the bar, or never mine, or clear |
| 08:23.22 | rwp | Well this is really it for me for the night. Good night all! |
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| 08:23.38 | klys | tah-tah. |
| 08:23.41 | klys | apt: tab |
| 08:23.41 | apt | it has been said that tab is part of the varndean crew, slightly slimy at times though, or how much one owes at the bar, or never mine, or clear |
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| 08:30.52 | Posterdati | hi |
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| 08:32.00 | Posterdati | please I have a nasty problem in stretch (amd64) I've got apt-key always running (freezed) when I kill it after a while it respawns and blocks me to use apt-get... Please help! Thanks |
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| 08:34.45 | jelly | Posterdati: do you have strace or lsof installed, can you see what it's doing? |
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| 08:35.21 | jelly | Posterdati: strace -f -p PidOfApt-KeyHere |
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| 08:36.13 | factor | What is the best way to give color to the motd file? |
| 08:36.24 | factor | also variables. |
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| 08:41.51 | Posterdati | jelly: [pid 20814] read(5, "Pkg::Options:: \"--force-confdef\""..., 8191) = 8191 |
| 08:42.13 | Posterdati | jelly: repeating! |
| 08:42.36 | jelly | Posterdati: with same pid? |
| 08:42.43 | Posterdati | yes |
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| 08:43.59 | Posterdati | jelly: https://pastebin.com/m6xjXJxQ |
| 08:44.07 | jelly | Posterdati: if you do "lsof -np 20814", what does it say about open file with FD number 5 ? |
| 08:44.21 | Posterdati | jelly: https://pastebin.com/m6xjXJxQ <-- this block repeated forever |
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| 08:44.52 | jelly | so it seems to be parsing one by one byte of a config file... |
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| 08:45.15 | Posterdati | jelly: it returns nothing |
| 08:45.44 | Posterdati | jelly: oh wait |
| 08:45.48 | Posterdati | jelly: disappeared |
| 08:45.50 | jelly | Posterdati: it will probably get there in 5-15 minutes, doing it that slow |
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| 08:46.03 | Posterdati | jelly: it ended :) |
| 08:46.13 | jelly | it's still a bug worth reporting |
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| 08:47.10 | Posterdati | jelly: I tried to remove unattended-upgrades too, but it didn't fix the problem |
| 08:47.21 | Posterdati | jelly: sometimes apper got stuck too |
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| 08:47.26 | jelly | Posterdati: which apt package version? |
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| 08:47.56 | jelly | Posterdati: any frontend trying to do an equivalent of apt-get update will get stuck |
| 08:48.22 | Posterdati | jelly: I updated yesterday to the new version, but problems started when I upgraded to stretch long ago |
| 08:48.47 | Posterdati | jelly: infact apt-get update gave errors about lock file :) |
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| 08:48.58 | jelly | that's a different issue. |
| 08:49.13 | Posterdati | # apt-get update |
| 08:49.14 | Posterdati | Reading package lists... Done |
| 08:49.14 | Posterdati | E: Could not get lock /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable) |
| 08:49.14 | Posterdati | E: Unable to lock directory /var/lib/apt/lists/ |
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| 08:49.29 | jelly | right, completely different thing |
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| 08:50.28 | Posterdati | jelly: but if I kill apt-key and apt-config it works again |
| 08:51.46 | jelly | of course, because still running apt processes keep the lock |
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| 08:52.13 | Posterdati | yes |
| 08:52.15 | jelly | it's a different consequence of apt-key being really slow |
| 08:52.45 | Posterdati | ok, but why it needs to start apt-key??? |
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| 08:54.42 | jelly | Posterdati: apt-key is used to verify repo contents are signed with trusted pgp keys, so you don't download malware |
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| 08:56.54 | Posterdati | why it checks so tigtlhy? |
| 08:57.22 | jelly | you're asking "why is this tool buggy" |
| 08:57.36 | jelly | the only answer is "because there's a bug" |
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| 08:58.18 | Someguy123 | rwp: not sure if you're still here, but it turns out that debootstrap seems to be smart enough to detect the packages are already downloaded, and simply verifies them, rather than re-downloading them all |
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| 09:00.28 | Posterdati | jelly: eh! There are no more tools like ones in the old days! |
| 09:00.34 | Posterdati | jelly: :) |
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| 09:01.50 | jelly | Posterdati: use reportbug to file a bug report. Might also see if apt people in #debian-apt on irc.oftc.net are willing to help debug this further |
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| 09:02.09 | Posterdati | ok |
| 09:02.11 | Posterdati | thanks |
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| 09:12.32 | Posterdati | jelly: doing reportbug |
| 09:12.39 | Posterdati | jelly: what is madison? |
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| 10:20.59 | jelly | !madison |
| 10:20.59 | dpkg | hmm... madison is #del# |
| 10:21.36 | jelly | used to be an old database with available package/repo info if I remember correctly |
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| 10:25.41 | klys | ~madison |
| 10:25.41 | apt | somebody said madison was part of katie, shows which suites a binary package is in |
| 10:26.06 | blackflow | do you mean |
| 10:26.09 | blackflow | !rmadison |
| 10:26.09 | dpkg | rmadison is a script for querying the Debian archive database about available packages. Available in the <devscripts> package. |
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| 10:26.26 | klys | "somebody said madison was part of katie, shows which suites a binary package is in" |
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| 10:44.54 | no_gravity | Hello! When I move a window to the top of the screen, it maximises. Is it possible to disable that? |
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| 10:45.59 | diogenes_ | no_gravity, what DE? |
| 10:46.43 | no_gravity | diogenes_: Mate |
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| 10:48.41 | diogenes_ | no_gravity, and what WM? marco/compiz |
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| 10:48.59 | no_gravity | diogenes_: How do I check? |
| 10:49.09 | no_gravity | diogenes_: Don't you experience that? |
| 10:49.25 | no_gravity | I would think there should be a key one can press to disable it while moving a window. |
| 10:49.37 | no_gravity | But so far no key does that without side effects. |
| 10:49.42 | diogenes_ | Control Panel > Windows > Placement. Just remove the tick at Enable side by side tiling |
| 10:50.22 | no_gravity | diogenes_: What is 'Control Panel'? |
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| 10:50.56 | diogenes_ | Control Center or something (sorry i'm not familiar with Mate) |
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| 10:51.43 | no_gravity | diogenes_: Yup, there is a 'Control Center'. |
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| 10:52.16 | no_gravity | diogenes_: Nice, that worked! |
| 10:52.19 | no_gravity | Thanks man! |
| 10:52.25 | diogenes_ | you're welcome |
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| 11:12.42 | PaddyF | !kvm |
| 11:12.42 | dpkg | Kernel-based Virtual Machine (KVM) is a full <virtualization> solution for Linux hosts on x86 hardware with x86 guests. Packaged as qemu-kvm since Debian 6.0 "Squeeze". See http://wiki.debian.org/KVM for installation instructions, also ask me about <xve>. http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/FAQ http://www.linux-kvm.org/ #kvm on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 11:32.36 | SwedeMike | https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-25/former-trump-advisor-roger-stone-arrested-florida ... and there's another one! |
| 11:32.48 | SwedeMike | "Former Trump advisor Roger Stone, who has been under scrutiny by Special Counsel Robert Mueller over his alleged contacts with Wikileaks, has been arrested In Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. on a seven-count indictment: One count of obstruction, five counts of making false statements and one count of witness tampering." |
| 11:32.54 | SwedeMike | oh sorry |
| 11:32.55 | SwedeMike | wrong channel! |
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| 11:36.16 | JustASlacker | like #maga ? |
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| 11:45.56 | Someguy123 | hmm, question - after running debootstrap with `--download-only`, how are you expected to continue the installation? |
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| 11:53.59 | uio | Will apt-get update fix the apt security issue? |
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| 11:55.35 | avu | uio: apt-get update will never fix any issues, you'll have to apt-get upgrade afterwards (also, consider using apt instead of apt-get) |
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| 11:56.10 | avu | uio: but to answer you real question, fixes are released for stable, so if you upgrade your stable install, it will be safe |
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| 11:56.29 | avu | uio: see https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4371 for details |
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| 11:59.28 | uio | avu, There is no simple command to perform the update? |
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| 12:01.28 | avu | uio: I'd say it's pretty simple, just the normal procedure to install updates on Debian systems, `apt update && apt upgrade`, with the caveat described in the advisory I linked since this is an issue in apt itself |
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| 12:03.46 | uio | So I did : apt -o Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false update, then apt -o Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false upgrade, then `apt update && apt upgrade |
| 12:04.10 | DonAlex | Ok guys.. so I am inching closer to nailing this problem. It has nothing to do with testing or the packages or anything like that. I cleaned out /var/log/apt to see if it made any logs. And no there is not history and no term log only the eipp.lox.xz being created.. so that is as far as it gets before stopping |
| 12:04.13 | uio | avu, Should that be good? If I installed packages yesterday, could this be a porblem? |
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| 12:04.47 | t3st3r | Someguy123> for example, install packages manually, etc? Also running it without download-only would reuse data at destination if it here, if I remember correctly. |
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| 12:10.49 | Someguy123 | t3st3r: I've figured it out, it seems I should be using make-tarball instead |
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| 12:12.45 | uio | avu, Thanks... |
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| 12:25.21 | Kadigan | Hey, dumb question probably, but... does setgid auto-propagate over -existing- subdirs? I'm not sure whether it should (as a modification of the parent, enforcement makes sense) or shouldn't (because it might violate the implied immutability of existing objects when altering parent parameters). |
| 12:25.51 | Iarfen | inside /etc/apt/sources.list.d/php.list which lines I should have? |
| 12:26.17 | jelly | Kadigan: it does not, only newly created sbudirs inherit it |
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| 12:27.20 | Kadigan | Thanks! |
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| 12:27.31 | Kadigan | (I thought I was seeing different behavior, but it then must be something I did) |
| 12:28.10 | bites | Iarfen: that's a third party repository, likely pointing to https://packages.sury.org/php/ but that's something nobody here can tell you. |
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| 12:32.59 | Greyztar | having trouble with audio on my laptop dell latitude e6400 any advice how to get it working?Im on stretch |
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| 12:35.54 | Fox | Greyztar: define trouble |
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| 12:36.56 | Greyztar | Fox: theres no device to choose when i open the sound properties ,im using cinnamon though |
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| 12:38.09 | Iarfen | bites: do you find apt search php7.3 and related packages? |
| 12:38.14 | klys | greyztar, first step with linux sound is get alsa to work. |
| 12:38.55 | bites | Iarfen: not on debian stable. |
| 12:39.19 | Iarfen | bites: that's normal? how I can install php7.3 then, do you know? |
| 12:39.39 | klys | greyztar, may I suggest: apt-get install alsa-utils; alsamixer; |
| 12:39.51 | bites | Iarfen: sury.org that i linked before is probably the best source. |
| 12:39.58 | Greyztar | klys: ok ill start from there then,i read that most should work with alsa so might be i havent installed it then or so,my install is netinstall then only added cinnamon so thats probably it |
| 12:40.12 | Greyztar | klys: ill do that thanks |
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| 12:46.20 | DonAlex | Ok something else odd showing itself.. apt-get -f install shows this |
| 12:46.31 | DonAlex | 10 not fully installed or removed. |
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| 12:47.04 | DonAlex | dpkg --configure -a shows nothing to configure.. So is that just the packages to be autoremoved ? |
| 12:47.05 | dpkg | DonAlex: what are you talking about? |
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| 12:47.41 | DonAlex | dpkg: problems with apt. It freezes when doing any actual package installation / removal |
| 12:47.41 | dpkg | DonAlex: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 12:48.06 | DonAlex | dpkg: Unparseable? How do you mean ? |
| 12:48.07 | dpkg | DonAlex: i don't know |
| 12:48.13 | neoclust | Hi |
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| 12:50.24 | DonAlex | dpkg: ok quick summary then. I am on testing and have been for about a year and a half. I have been using Debian for about 17 years now. Day before yesterday apt just stopped working. Apt upgrade would download all the packages but when you press Y to continue it would just sit then..Since then I have discovered it is not writing anything to the logs other than the eipp file |
| 12:50.25 | dpkg | I think you lost me on that one, DonAlex |
| 12:50.45 | neoclust | i am new in deb packaging. I am rebuilding a kernel. It builds well but at then i have: https://paste.siveo.net/okogepojaj.cpp with a lot of lines like this after |
| 12:50.58 | neoclust | How can i fix this to make my kernel build ? |
| 12:51.00 | neoclust | thanks |
| 12:51.19 | DonAlex | dpkg: strace it not helpful alas.. |
| 12:51.19 | dpkg | DonAlex: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 12:51.34 | DonAlex | dpkg: What is larger? |
| 12:51.35 | dpkg | DonAlex: what are you talking about? |
| 12:51.52 | DonAlex | dpkg: I am talking about apt not working..what else does it sound like I am talking about ? |
| 12:51.53 | dpkg | You are person #2 to send an unparseable request, DonAlex |
| 12:51.55 | klys | donalex, pls |
| 12:52.21 | jelly | DonAlex: arguing with the bot is not very fruitful |
| 12:52.29 | DonAlex | klys: That is a bot ? |
| 12:52.33 | klys | yes |
| 12:52.35 | DonAlex | I did not know.. |
| 12:52.42 | DonAlex | What does it do ? |
| 12:52.58 | klys | it processes mostly one-word queries |
| 12:53.05 | jelly | !reportbug |
| 12:53.06 | dpkg | reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting, or <reportbug MTA> |
| 12:53.15 | DonAlex | so my use of dpkg --configure triggered it huh ? |
| 12:53.24 | jelly | yeah |
| 12:53.32 | jelly | starting a line with dpkg would |
| 12:53.32 | DonAlex | *doh* |
| 12:54.21 | DonAlex | Sorry then.. still if someone could help me with my problem I would be greatly appreciative.. I have never encountered anything like this in all the years I have been using Debian. |
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| 12:54.51 | klys | donalex, have you run short on disk free space? |
| 12:55.22 | DonAlex | nope about 1.2Gb in / atm |
| 12:55.33 | DonAlex | sorry 1.8 |
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| 12:56.09 | klys | so eh, it's parsing files: /var/lib/dpkg/status, /var/lib/dpkg/available, /var/cache/apt/lists/* |
| 12:56.50 | DonAlex | I have brought the system back up to date by doing apt upgrade.. letting it download the packages and then dpkg -i them from /var/cache/apt/archive.. that works so long as you remember to run configure every so often |
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| 12:57.33 | DonAlex | So atm there are no "upgrades" to do.. but apt still will hang on auto remove or apt remove.. etc. |
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| 12:58.09 | klys | donalex, what does apt-get -f install say? |
| 12:59.13 | DonAlex | klys: https://paste.debian.net/1062451/ |
| 12:59.29 | DonAlex | But it will just sit there.. doing nothing.. |
| 12:59.44 | DonAlex | like it s waiting for something to happen |
| 12:59.44 | klys | looks good to me |
| 13:00.07 | klys | well, you may want to upgrade apt, dpkg, and related software |
| 13:00.12 | DonAlex | I know that is what is so irrritating.. looks like it work in all other respects except installing or removing packages.. |
| 13:00.44 | DonAlex | klys: Already done.. they are all pinned to testing now. Which is what they should be seeing as I am running that. |
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| 13:01.11 | klys | please verify that your files in /var/lib are accessible and not corrupted. |
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| 13:01.43 | DonAlex | klys: Wha tis curious is no logs are being created.. so something is happening before it even can write a "I am doing this " file . |
| 13:01.59 | DonAlex | klys: accessible to who ? |
| 13:02.04 | klys | root |
| 13:02.35 | DonAlex | drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Jan 24 20:38 apt |
| 13:02.36 | DonAlex | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24 20:38 aptitude |
| 13:02.55 | DonAlex | drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Jan 25 12:44 dpkg |
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| 13:04.37 | klys | use commands like less /var/lib/dpkg/status; scroll all the way up and down; make sure there's no garbage. |
| 13:05.21 | DonAlex | klys: OK sure.. but if that were corrupt would I be able to install all the debs by hand using dpkg -i ? |
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| 13:06.16 | jelly | DonAlex: find the pid of your apt/apt-get process, from a separate terminal. pastebin the output of "pstree -Apa PIDHERE" |
| 13:06.28 | DonAlex | jelly: ok |
| 13:07.06 | jelly | another user had their apt processes stuck in apt-key yesterday and today, wonder if it's the same thing |
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| 13:08.19 | DonAlex | jelly: hmm there are 2 apt-get -f installs. let me kill them start again |
| 13:08.32 | jelly | DonAlex: don't kill them. |
| 13:08.45 | DonAlex | jelly: how to stop them then ? |
| 13:08.55 | jelly | show their process trees as well, first, please |
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| 13:09.25 | DonAlex | Whoa.. could it be snapper? |
| 13:09.44 | DonAlex | Ahh.. that might make sense.. |
| 13:09.47 | jelly | I don't know because I can't see what's on your screen for some reason |
| 13:10.00 | jelly | !paste |
| 13:10.01 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net or https://0bin.net/ | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 13:10.03 | DonAlex | I wil pastebin it one mo |
| 13:10.59 | DonAlex | jelly: https://paste.debian.net/1062452/ |
| 13:11.26 | DonAlex | I smell a rat.. |
| 13:12.27 | DonAlex | Ah hah.. something is clicking.. |
| 13:12.49 | DonAlex | snapper python woes.. who would have thought |
| 13:12.52 | jelly | DonAlex: that's not pstree output, tho. pstree -Apa 13239 |
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| 13:13.27 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:13.46 | jelly | sounds like this snapper might have apt or dpkg hooks |
| 13:13.53 | DonAlex | jelly: I am thinking that snapper is the problem now it takes a snapshot before package install and if that never completes. well nothing gets installed.. lemme look into that ok.. I feel it is a prime suspect |
| 13:13.59 | jelly | so yes, it might be doing something |
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| 13:14.46 | DonAlex | jelly: I will try and unpick why snapper-gui is barfing and I bet I get to the bottom of this. |
| 13:14.50 | jelly | if it's not essential for your workflow, kill its process, see if apt finishes, uninstall it with dpkg and try apt again |
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| 13:17.43 | DonAlex | hehe.. yeah.. that was it. Hmmm lemme reinstall snapper and see if it still happens if so time to file a bug. |
| 13:19.38 | DonAlex | jelly: ok definitely a bug in snapper.. trying to install it via apt hangs when setting up snapper haha. |
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| 13:20.37 | DonAlex | Fascinating.. it kill the log process. |
| 13:20.46 | DonAlex | Setting up snapper-gui (0git.960a94834f-3) ... |
| 13:20.46 | DonAlex | Log ended: 2019-01-25 13:18:33 |
| 13:21.29 | BCMM | how can i list the recommendations of a package (not necessarily an installed package) from the command line? |
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| 13:21.49 | BCMM | at the moment i'd just go to packages.debian.org in a web browser but that kinda seems like the long route |
| 13:22.27 | avu | BCMM: `apt show <package>` shows them (among other things) |
| 13:22.33 | BCMM | avu: thanks! |
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| 13:24.01 | BCMM | avu: it appears to be hosing me depends but not recommends... |
| 13:24.14 | avu | BCMM: maybe the package has no Recommends? |
| 13:24.31 | avu | BCMM: try `apt show gnome` for an example |
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| 13:24.54 | avu | BCMM: if a package doesn't have Recommends or Suggests fields, the fields won't be displayed at all |
| 13:25.16 | BCMM | avu: whoops. thanks, i got confused between linux-headers-[VERSION]-amd64 and linux-headers-amd64 |
| 13:26.34 | BCMM | (or, actually, image not headers) |
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| 13:34.01 | abhinits2046 | hello everyone, i am recently started using debian9 and tried to update firefox browser to Nightly version but not getting success, can anyone help me to update my firefox. |
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| 13:40.39 | jmcnaught | abhinits2046: what have you tried? Debian probably isn't the best choice if you want to run the most recent bleeding edge versions of software, you'll be fighting the distro the whole time |
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| 14:14.16 | oo_miguel | I am looking for something like xmessage, but capable of displaying the text it gets on stdin before the writing programm exits |
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| 14:15.20 | oo_miguel | interactively |
| 14:15.33 | LunaLovegood | xterm? |
| 14:15.48 | oo_miguel | heh hmmm |
| 14:16.12 | LunaLovegood | oh wait, it can't run as part of a pipeline. it needs to exec the programs itself. |
| 14:16.30 | LunaLovegood | might be usable depending on your needs I guess |
| 14:16.31 | oo_miguel | LunaLovegood: I would be allright with that too |
| 14:16.56 | oo_miguel | I have a key combo to force fetchmail to run earlier |
| 14:17.18 | oo_miguel | and wanted just to have some popup window that schows me the progress |
| 14:17.28 | oo_miguel | checking through the mailboxes |
| 14:17.38 | oo_miguel | normally it runs in the background every few minutes anyway |
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| 14:18.12 | LunaLovegood | Got a question of my own. How can I install Debian in a chroot, from a non-debian host? There's no debootstrap or anything like that, only wget. |
| 14:18.14 | oo_miguel | when I pipe it to xmessage I just see the "popup" after all mailboxes have ben checked |
| 14:18.27 | SerajewelKS | LunaLovegood: install debootstrap |
| 14:18.30 | oo_miguel | I will check if xterm will work fine |
| 14:18.51 | greycat | LunaLovegood: /msg dpkg debootstrap |
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| 14:19.44 | LunaLovegood | Oh wow, I thought debootstrap needed dpkg/apt etc. Thanks. |
| 14:20.40 | SerajewelKS | LunaLovegood: that wouldn't make it very useful, to have it depend on one of the things it installs ;) |
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| 14:21.12 | LunaLovegood | So i just grab the package and do "ar x debootstrap*.deb" etc..? |
| 14:21.53 | greycat | LunaLovegood: you do whatever it says on the instructions which you got from dpkg when you issued "/msg dpkg debootstrap" in your IRC client as you were instructed by me/ |
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| 14:22.04 | SerajewelKS | LunaLovegood: probably want to build it from source, or whatever |
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| 14:22.56 | SerajewelKS | LunaLovegood: the source is here, and you can run it from the source tree without installing it system-wide: http://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.114.tar.gz |
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| 14:27.54 | ksk | iirc debootstrap is also available on a number of non-debian-based systems via package managers. |
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| 14:29.30 | SerajewelKS | ksk: yeah, i'm guessing by "There's no debootstrap or anything like that, only wget." he was talking about his distro's package repos |
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| 14:31.07 | ksk | ah okay. |
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| 14:32.40 | greycat | Well, the target non-Debian system needs a basic tool chain including ar, tar and gzip. Not sure what else is needed. I only glanced at the debootstrap page briefly. |
| 14:33.15 | greycat | ar is normally considered a development tool, so it might need installin' |
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| 14:36.50 | FreeBDSM | hi, how to get 'add-apt-repository' without intsalling damn fat software-properties-common? |
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| 14:36.58 | FreeBDSM | or is there another way to install a ppa? |
| 14:37.14 | SerajewelKS | !ppa |
| 14:37.14 | dpkg | [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas or <launchpad>). PPAs are either: (a) an easy way to grab packages based on nightly-builds/VCS snapshots or (b) an easy way for any idiot to publish a package of extremely poor quality (remember, you will run the maintainer scripts as root during install!). Choose your repos wisely. No equivalent exists for Debian yet. Ask me about <why not use a ppa>. |
| 14:37.31 | SerajewelKS | debian doesn't have PPAs |
| 14:37.43 | FreeBDSM | what |
| 14:37.51 | SerajewelKS | and yes, you can manually edit /etc/apt/sources.list or throw a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d |
| 14:37.57 | FreeBDSM | wait, that's ubuntu thing :( |
| 14:38.04 | SerajewelKS | yes |
| 14:38.19 | greycat | you *can* but you shouldn't |
| 14:38.22 | jelly | PPA platform only targets and build binaries for ubuntu releases. |
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| 14:49.46 | karlpinc | FreeBDSM: You might want to tell us what you're really trying to install. |
| 14:50.02 | karlpinc | FreeBDSM: (Or the problem you're really trying to solve.) |
| 14:50.09 | FreeBDSM | a working certbot |
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| 14:50.18 | FreeBDSM | it's available in backports |
| 14:51.24 | FreeBDSM | needed to install backports, figured out it's easier to just `echo 'deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main' | sudo tee /etc/apt/dources.list.d/stretch-backports.list' |
| 14:51.41 | ksk | then adding backports to your system will work just fine ;) |
| 14:51.49 | FreeBDSM | yeah, it worked, thanks |
| 14:51.55 | ksk | yes indeed. |
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| 14:54.09 | FreeBDSM | #certbot is so dead :( |
| 14:54.17 | FreeBDSM | and #letsencrypt too |
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| 14:56.54 | zumba_addict | just saw this - https://thehackernews.com/2019/01/linux-apt-http-hacking.html |
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| 14:57.42 | FreeBDSM | update |
| 14:58.54 | JustASlacker | patch all the things! |
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| 14:59.11 | ksk | yap, there is a "how to be safe with old apt" (disable redirects) instruction you should follow on updating |
| 15:01.03 | greycat | unless you already did your normal apt-get update/upgrade dance before you were even aware there had been an issue |
| 15:01.40 | FreeBDSM | so, basically, you'd better reinstall debian |
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| 15:03.14 | ksk | so, basicly every debian install in the world? but yes, you are right of course. will just not happen in the real world :x |
| 15:03.26 | FreeBDSM | yup |
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| 15:06.13 | zumba_addict | so apt is the old way? What is the new way of installing packages? |
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| 15:07.10 | jmcnaught | zumba_addict: if you still have an old copy of apt from before this update, you need to follow the instructions in the DSA https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4371 |
| 15:07.22 | zumba_addict | thanks! |
| 15:07.43 | zumba_addict | I guess Ubuntu's old apt is affected as well, any debian based |
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| 15:07.53 | FreeBDSM | follow NSA |
| 15:08.06 | zumba_addict | what is their link? |
| 15:08.13 | zumba_addict | is it the nsa.gov? |
| 15:08.14 | greycat | How the hell would we know? |
| 15:08.19 | greycat | Ask #ubuntu. |
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| 15:09.28 | zleap | i seem to be running apt 1.4.9 |
| 15:09.48 | zleap | which according to that site is fixed, not sure i just updated to deb 9.7 yesterday |
| 15:09.53 | zumba_addict | https://www.nsa.gov/ |
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| 15:11.04 | andre144k | hi all |
| 15:11.14 | zleap | hi |
| 15:12.14 | andre144k | anyone have an idea to rsync to windows-share (ntfs) - Ã get some errors cause time-sync. this command willbe work fine: "rsync -r -l -D -v -o /source /dest" |
| 15:12.39 | andre144k | but it seems to be no good idea, cause files willbe everytime sync again, cause mtime issent same |
| 15:13.39 | andre144k | i could give option -c (checksum) - but then every checksum willbe check before |
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| 15:13.54 | greycat | What do you *want* it to do instead? |
| 15:14.13 | andre144k | a good way for rsync to ntfs |
| 15:14.22 | andre144k | (windows-share) |
| 15:15.16 | andre144k | maybe someone have experiences |
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| 15:16.27 | greycat | You want someone to tell you what you want it to do? |
| 15:16.30 | greycat | Good luck. |
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| 15:17.16 | sayi | hi guys, any idea why the network manager wont let me configure 2 NICs with different IPs? it only activate one NIC... |
| 15:17.31 | spackle259 | andre144k: I typically mount my ntfs share and then run the rsync backup to it |
| 15:17.47 | kork1 | andre144k: rsync on ntfs: I do --archive --sparse --hard-links |
| 15:17.49 | spackle259 | andre144k: is that something simliar what you are trying to do? |
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| 15:33.28 | vlt | Hello. After updating from (a very stable) Debian 8 to Debian 9 we have lots of problems with our Intel server hardware. Booting Debian 9 with the old kernel from Debian 8 seems to solve it for now. In case the problems don't occur in later kernel versions, what is the most recommended way to get a newer kernel into Debian 9? |
| 15:34.01 | vlt | (Including security fixes) |
| 15:34.28 | ksk | vlt: I doubt debian 9 would not work on "normal hardware" - maybe you should elaborate on your problems. |
| 15:34.45 | ksk | vlt: there might be newer kernels in backports, thats the first place Id check. |
| 15:35.16 | andre144k | spackle259, yes, cifs is mounted. then i call rsync -a - but i got some errors with change times. so i call "rsync -r -l -D -v -o" - but then src/dest have different tiomestamps. so when i recall rsync it willbe send again |
| 15:35.20 | ksk | if you want/need to compile your own kernel, you are basicly on your own and keeping it secure may require alot of additonal continous work. |
| 15:35.42 | ksk | as you need to check upstream for new releases etc. |
| 15:35.55 | andre144k | -c wuill solf that, but then every file willbe checked ... so maybe theres a better way |
| 15:35.57 | vlt | ksk: Compiling our own kernel is the least favourite option :D |
| 15:36.25 | greycat | I would try to solve the problems using the stretch kernel first. Then, if that absolutely fails, try the stretch-backports kernel. |
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| 15:37.42 | vlt | ksk: Immediately after the update to Debian 9 when the problems appeared I discussed them right here and after analyzing the dmesg log I got the recommendation to try the old kernel to see if it's affected. |
| 15:37.59 | vlt | greycat: But yes, solving the cause I would prefer, too. |
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| 15:38.40 | greycat | well, trying the old kernel gives you a fallback as well as some more insight (possibly), so it's not a bad first step |
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| 15:40.43 | Greyztar | trying to connect to a wifi network which has a capture portal login page,i get connected to some network but i dont get the login page with form to fill out registration,thanks for help earlier with audio is working now |
| 15:41.12 | vlt | On 3.16.0-5-amd64 (and Debian 9) the server is running for 67 hours now. That's what I'd call a huge improvement over the default 4.9.0-8-amd64 ;) |
| 15:41.45 | greycat | You still haven't stated what the actual *problem* is. |
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| 15:43.46 | vlt | greycat: A few hours after boot all network communication stopped. I serial'd in and got this: https://termbin.com/tj8z |
| 15:44.50 | vlt | A reboot fixed it temporarily but it happened again after 31 hours: https://termbin.com/tv8a |
| 15:45.12 | ksk | vlt: ah yes, that :D intel gbit nic? |
| 15:45.51 | vlt | ksk: Yes. Would you out that into your category for "normal hardware"? |
| 15:45.58 | vlt | s/out/put |
| 15:46.05 | ksk | totally. |
| 15:46.23 | ksk | A company I worked for had the exact same problems, high traffic network, xen stack. |
| 15:46.27 | greycat | Does it want any firmware? Any firmware messages in dmesg, especially errors about firmware? |
| 15:47.00 | ksk | iirc we ended up building our own kernel with firmware somewhere from the deep interwebz. so Im afraid I dont know a clean solution :/ |
| 15:47.38 | ksk | maybe disabling TCP-offloading (and other things, gso-something iirc?) did also help slightly. |
| 15:50.14 | vlt | greycat: `journalctl -k` of the current running 3.16: https://termbin.com/fcxe |
| 15:50.38 | greycat | I meant in the 4.9.0 kernel. |
| 15:51.10 | greycat | A whole lot of hardware that did not require external firmware files in jessie *does* require it in stretch. Usually video cards and onboard graphics chipsets. |
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| 15:51.52 | t3st3r | oh snap that DSA-4371 doesn't looks cool. Is testing version of apt affected, btw? |
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| 15:54.23 | vlt | greycat: syslog od the last 4.9 boot: https://termbin.com/b9hm |
| 15:55.00 | greycat | OK, it was worth a shot. |
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| 15:55.45 | vlt | greycat: What does the syslog tell you? |
| 15:55.48 | greycat | If it turns out to be some subtle bug involving Xen and high-end Intel NICs, then it's over my head. |
| 15:56.11 | greycat | vlt: I searched for "firmware", and found only one line, and it wasn't "you are missing such-and-such firmware file" |
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| 15:56.45 | greycat | or even "[ 3.866062] i915 0000:00:02.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware i915/skl_dmc_ver1_26.bin |
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| 15:59.49 | JordiGH | I'm still trying to figure out how install Python 3 higher than 3.5 on stable. |
| 16:00.45 | JordiGH | I really only need this for one project (one virtualenv), so I'm leaning on going with the route of compiling it myself and installing it to /opt and point the virtualenv. |
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| 16:00.49 | JordiGH | Is there a better way? |
| 16:01.34 | vlt | JordiGH: pyenv works great for me |
| 16:02.02 | JordiGH | In a debiany way? |
| 16:02.39 | greycat | The debiany way is "you have a stable system, and it has this version of python, and that's what you use". |
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| 16:03.42 | JordiGH | Yeah, but I need to develop this Python codebase that has features not in Python 3.5 |
| 16:03.42 | greycat | unless there's a version in stretch-backports, or unless it's *possible* to backport it, in which case you proceed with *extreme* caution, because perl and python are both highly integrated into Debian and are not to be tossed around blithely |
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| 16:04.50 | vlt | JordiGH: For all system related stuff I use the Debian Python version. But for a single contained app in a virtualenv I use pyenv versions. And yes, I have to update them myself if necessary. |
| 16:05.11 | JordiGH | What's pyenv anyway? Doesn't seem like it's packaged. |
| 16:05.56 | vlt | JordiGH: https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv |
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| 16:07.06 | JordiGH | Hm, does it help with *installing* a python version? |
| 16:10.39 | t3st3r | greycat> IIRC debian just splitted out kernel's firmares to separate package. Actually it originated on kernel side if I remember. |
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| 16:14.36 | t3st3r | okay debian's changelog answered my question, it seems apt 1.8 alpha also had prob's and got uplifted in emergency manner. |
| 16:15.23 | t3st3r | darn, update time, everywhere, dammit |
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| 16:32.58 | ksk | reading https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting.en.html - do I understand it correctly that I cannot report a bug with an email "mail@domain.tld"? |
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| 16:34.03 | greycat | wut |
| 16:34.05 | JordiGH | Verbatim? |
| 16:34.11 | JordiGH | A fake domain, you mean? |
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| 16:35.28 | ksk | no, an email with the word "mail" before the "@" |
| 16:36.17 | greycat | Why would your email address be "mail"? |
| 16:36.30 | greycat | Is your real name Mai Lin? |
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| 16:36.49 | greycat | Is your corporate policy "surname plus first initial" and it just happens to end up "mail"? |
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| 16:37.31 | JordiGH | ksk: What part are you reading that makes you believe that "mail" can't be the username of the address? |
| 16:37.44 | ksk | "Another common cause of mail not making it through to the BTS is utilizing addresses which match procmail's FROM_DAEMON, which includes mail from addresses like mail@foobar.com." |
| 16:38.10 | greycat | So, why is this an issue for YOU? |
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| 16:39.06 | ksk | because my address is "mail@mydomain.tld" - and I did not get anything back from the BTS upon using reportbug. |
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| 16:39.31 | ksk | I will just try with another address, thanks for the trolling greycat. |
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| 16:39.57 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 16:41.14 | greycat | "Hi guys I have done everything wrong that I can possibly do wrong, like I login as root and I get all my mail sent to 'mail' and so on, because I am a damned fool, so why is this thing not workingk, oh here's an explanation ON THE PAGE of why it's not working, so guys, why doesn't it work?" |
| 16:42.30 | JordiGH | Man, what happened to you, greycat? |
| 16:42.32 | JordiGH | You used to be nice. |
| 16:42.52 | RichiH | to be fair the initial question was kinda weird, but to the point and "yes" would have been enough |
| 16:43.00 | greycat | Review the last 5 minutes, and them multiply that by 20 to 25 years. |
| 16:43.28 | JordiGH | ksk: Looks like you hit a bug in the BTS. |
| 16:43.34 | RichiH | greycat: not being on irc for almost two years due to work worked nicely for me |
| 16:43.42 | t3st3r | well debian bug reporting IMHO leaves a lot to be desired. Would be so convenient to file bug via just web page... but seems not a chance. |
| 16:44.01 | greycat | RichiH: the initial question was so confusing that I could not tell whether he was asking about the literal domain name 'domain.tld', or whether he was asking "Do I really have to have an email address or can I just write some bullshit made-up crap in that field", or what. |
| 16:44.38 | greycat | If he were able to convey "my literal username is mail because that's my actual real-life name", then it might have made more sense. You will note that I specifically asked about that case. |
| 16:44.42 | greycat | Then I got called a troll. |
| 16:44.46 | JordiGH | t3st3r: Yeah, this has gone nowhere: http://inversethought.com/hg/bts-webui/file/tip/bts_webui/README |
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| 16:45.32 | JordiGH | Last commit is 8 years old: http://inversethought.com/hg/bts-webui/shortlog/tip |
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| 16:45.46 | JordiGH | It's not a very big project. Maybe some day I'll get around to finishing it. |
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| 16:47.55 | t3st3r | I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to track bugs via email in an efficient way, or how I'm supposed to use reportbug. Fire and forget mode, huh? |
| 16:49.23 | RichiH | greycat: the first clarification was on point, though. i agree that using mail@ is weird, but the question was specific with that addendum |
| 16:49.35 | RichiH | either way, it's probably nothing to go back and forth about |
| 16:50.10 | JordiGH | t3st3r: There used to be a time when doing everything by email made sense because we had better mail clients than gmail. |
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| 16:50.39 | JordiGH | But now that email is more or less effectively gmail, the art is forgotten. |
| 16:50.59 | JordiGH | So stuff like managing email headers or figuring out how to not send html is gone. |
| 16:51.16 | JordiGH | Including the pseudo-headers that debbugs expects. |
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| 16:52.04 | kwami | Iam trying to update my sistem to the latest 9.7 but is still running 9.6 even after fuul-upgrade command |
| 16:52.16 | ksk | also, gmail is flagging mails from BTS as spam :x |
| 16:52.35 | ksk | or, phishing rather, big red warning included. |
| 16:52.48 | greycat | did you forget to run "apt-get update" first? |
| 16:52.57 | kwami | no, I did |
| 16:53.09 | kwami | ran update first |
| 16:53.12 | greycat | then it should have installed the new base-files package |
| 16:53.19 | greycat | unless your mirror is just *way* out of sync |
| 16:53.58 | kwami | I think that's the issue. Ill try to change the mirror |
| 16:54.25 | pierrot | hello guys. yesterday my laptop was powered off unexpectedly because of too much heat I guess |
| 16:54.26 | t3st3r | JordiGH> well, mail is fine for communications, sure. However tracking bugs via email... uhm these days there're plenty of decend dedicated bug tracking software. |
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| 16:54.39 | pierrot | and after that, it didn't boot because of fily system corruption |
| 16:54.45 | pierrot | file* |
| 16:54.46 | jelly | ,v base-files |
| 16:54.47 | judd | Package: base-files on amd64 -- wheezy: 7.1wheezy11; jessie: 8+deb8u11; stretch: 9.9+deb9u7; buster: 10.1; sid: 10.1 |
| 16:54.47 | t3st3r | Unfortunately debian is well below of modern state of things in this regard. |
| 16:55.06 | pierrot | I had to run fsck on some of the relevant partitions |
| 16:55.53 | pierrot | I'd like to take some security measures |
| 16:55.58 | pierrot | what would you recommend me? |
| 16:56.02 | greycat | ... so what I'm hearing is "you old dinosaurs with your functional email clients are irrelevant, we demand a web based interface for our phones and tablets so we can report a bug by pushing the Single Giant Green Button which is the only visible thing on the entire screen" |
| 16:56.20 | t3st3r | at very least using mail as bug tracker implies setting up truckload of advanced filters - manually. Something that any bug tracking software does on its own. For many years. |
| 16:56.21 | JordiGH | t3st3r: So, wanna help me fix it? |
| 16:57.01 | ksk | pierrot: apart from having up2date backups Im not sure what you are asking for. |
| 16:57.16 | jelly | t3st3r: if you can migrate the existing 900k bugs and 100M messages into one of those decent dedicated bug tracking software solutions, people managing current BTS would be very happy |
| 16:57.40 | pierrot | ksk : are there any ways to make the file system more robust? |
| 16:58.08 | t3st3r | jelly> hum that's a very valid point. |
| 16:58.09 | ksk | pierrot: it seems to me you did not loose anything, so you could call it rather robust already? |
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| 16:58.28 | ksk | and no, a filesystem is not like "running in unsafe mode, until you apply the safe-mode-switch" |
| 16:58.55 | jelly | t3st3r: but seriously, you can do that. the whole BTS is rsyncable. |
| 16:59.05 | jelly | has a local copy |
| 16:59.36 | kwami | got it, changed the mirror got the full-upgrade issue solved |
| 16:59.41 | t3st3r | JordiGH> I'm not really useful when it comes to some python thing hosted in HG. I do not speak python, nor I ever will. And HG ... means I'm unfamiliar with it. |
| 17:00.01 | t3st3r | rsyncable... interesting |
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| 17:00.34 | cheapie | I imagine having the BTS being *slightly* obscure probably cuts down on clueless users reporting "bugs" that were their own fault in the first place :P |
| 17:00.36 | t3st3r | jelly> any pointers on how to rsync it? |
| 17:00.49 | JordiGH | t3st3r: Okay, so you can't help. |
| 17:00.56 | JordiGH | And the hg hosting is really incidental. |
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| 17:01.21 | JordiGH | t3st3r: Because you can't help, and because I can't help, there has been no debbugs WUI in the last 8 years. |
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| 17:01.29 | pierrot | ksk : yeah, you're right. it's not the first time my laptop is powered off unexpectedly but the other times the file system check was done during the booting process and run softly without any errors so I didn't care too much about the issue |
| 17:01.41 | jelly | t3st3r: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Access |
| 17:02.00 | ksk | ah you had to run it manually? did not get that from your posting. no Idea why it was not done automagicly though. |
| 17:02.00 | pierrot | this last time was completely different. lots of I/O errors were shown |
| 17:02.04 | JordiGH | jelly: Do people actually want to get rid of debbugs? |
| 17:02.11 | pierrot | ksk : yeah, I run it manually |
| 17:02.15 | t3st3r | its not that BTS is obscure, it just "strange" in sense it does not even readily provides easy means to, say, look up "all bugs reported by me". |
| 17:02.54 | t3st3r | jelly> thanks |
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| 17:03.03 | jelly | JordiGH: t3st3r just said they knew of better options... |
| 17:04.49 | t3st3r | jelly> uhm no, unfortunately I don't readily know better options. But I'm curious to see on that rsync to get idea of how it looks. |
| 17:05.39 | jelly | > If on the other hand, you report bug reports, you can get a list of the bug reports from you that haven't yet been fixed by going to http://bugs.debian.org/from:your@addre.ss |
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| 17:06.19 | jelly | that is reasonably easy if you're able to type things into a browser's address bar and can paste your email address |
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| 17:06.57 | t3st3r | yeah, sounds reasonable |
| 17:07.13 | jelly | that's from https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS |
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| 17:27.43 | noonien | hello folks |
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| 17:28.02 | noonien | how does one determine all the installation sets available when trying to install a package? |
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| 17:31.51 | t3st3r | noonien> say apt-cache show <package> |
| 17:31.59 | t3st3r | if I got your question right |
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| 17:32.23 | noonien | I'm referring to https://wiki.debian.org/DependencyHell#Installation_Set |
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| 17:35.20 | eject_ck | I have haproxy running on debian server, with 3.16, I have network service running on port 80 and listening on all ports, I have problems that sometimes server don't respond on client connections. I see SYN packets from client, but no SYN, ACK from server. Other clients works just fine. It's not routing / binding issue with haproxy. I want to trace that packet. Please suggest tools to catch packet arriving to tcp stack, but not replaying |
| 17:35.20 | eject_ck | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:35.28 | eject_ck | that's how it looks like with tcpdump https://gist.github.com/peak-load/fdd9f75e9b19a52af10da5ab774a5edf |
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| 18:10.22 | zq | rwp: $(date) usually returns something like "Fri Jan 25 23:23:23 UTC 2019." instead, it is now returning "Fri 25 Jan 2019 11:23:23 PM UTC" |
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| 18:10.45 | zq | any ideas why? i tried checking for related env vars like TZ, but they're all unset |
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| 18:10.59 | greycat | zq: your locale determines the default date format |
| 18:11.27 | rwp | zq, What is your locale? Type in: locale |
| 18:12.02 | rwp | zq, Also your configured timezone too. |
| 18:12.16 | greycat | that just calculates the offset from UTC |
| 18:12.29 | rwp | cat /etc/timezone |
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| 18:13.14 | zq | rwp: for locale, it's en_US.UTF-8 but not just for $LANG, but for $LC_CTYPE $LC_NUMERIC $LC_TIME $LC_COLLATE $LC_MONETARY $LC_MESSAGES $LC_PAPER $LC_NAME $LC_ADDRESS $LC_TELEPHONE $LC_MEASUREMENT $LC_IDENTIFICATION |
| 18:13.29 | zq | this is odd, because usually it's just LANG that's set and nothing else |
| 18:13.31 | greycat | Which version of Debian are you using? |
| 18:13.49 | greycat | zq: "locale" reports values for the unset variables as well as the set ones, with quoting to differentiate. |
| 18:13.58 | zq | greycat: deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free |
| 18:14.04 | rwp | That's normal. The one you set is not quoted in the locale output but the ones that inherit the value are quoted. Odd. But that is the way that it is. |
| 18:14.12 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 18:14.12 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 18:14.21 | zq | ): |
| 18:14.27 | rwp | For date I always recommend using an unambiguous format such as "date -R" which is unambiguous. |
| 18:15.05 | greycat | If en_US changed to 12-hour format in buster, then I will probably end up setting LC_TIME in buster, whenever I upgrade to it. Same as I had to on HP-UX. |
| 18:15.06 | zq | greycat: i've checked the changelog for coreutils (which date is part of) and there weren't any testing-centric changes |
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| 18:15.19 | greycat | zq: it's 24-hour in stretch. |
| 18:15.29 | greycat | wooledg:~$ date |
| 18:15.29 | greycat | Fri Jan 25 13:15:25 EST 2019 |
| 18:15.43 | rwp | Hmm... I confirm that something is different. |
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| 18:15.51 | rwp | I hadn't noticed because I always use 'date -R'. |
| 18:16.27 | zq | i have another testing system that outputs the old date format, probably because it hasn't been updated in a while |
| 18:16.37 | zq | gonna compare packages |
| 18:16.59 | rwp | Note that even though date comes from the coreutils package the default date format is controlled by glibc. |
| 18:17.09 | greycat | correct |
| 18:17.22 | greycat | Locales are defined by the C library, which is libc6 on Debian. |
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| 18:17.53 | zq | hm, libc6 versions differ |
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| 18:20.08 | zq | maybe this: * debian/patches/localedata/git-en_US-date_fmt.diff: backport from upstream support for date_fmt for the en_US locale. Closes: #877900. |
| 18:20.10 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/877900 in locales (closed): «general: en-us locale defaults to 24-hour "military" time on stock install»; severity: minor; opened: 2017-10-06; last modified: 2019-01-12. |
| 18:20.18 | zq | judd: (: |
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| 18:21.37 | rwp | zq, 'date' is a thin wrapper around the localtime_r() libc library call. |
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| 18:24.43 | zq | hm |
| 18:24.54 | zq | rwp: insightful, thanks |
| 18:25.16 | zq | LC_TIME=C.UTF-8 undoes that change |
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| 18:25.51 | zq | rwp: any particular reason(s) for choosing rfc 3339 format? |
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| 18:27.12 | rwp | zq, With -R? That is the format used by email and news headers. |
| 18:27.24 | rwp | And also by Debian changelog entries. |
| 18:27.29 | rwp | By a very large number of things. |
| 18:28.25 | rwp | I am pretty sure the original format was RFC-822! |
| 18:28.50 | zq | oh my mistake, -R is rfc 5322 |
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| 18:29.28 | zq | anyway, i'm convinced |
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| 18:29.34 | rwp | zq, date -R is --rfc-2822 |
| 18:29.46 | swi | Hello |
| 18:29.50 | zq | rwp: -R, --rfc-email |
| 18:29.50 | zq | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.53 | zq | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:30.30 | zq | version difference, maybe |
| 18:30.56 | rwp | Hmm... That is another recent change. It has always previously been -R,--rfc-2822. |
| 18:31.18 | swi | I can't figure out what wrong. In gnome when i run nautilus from application menu it runs in english locale, but if i run it from alt-f2 command it is run in my locale (and all gnome in my locale). How that can be? |
| 18:31.19 | greycat | I recommend the quote in the info page for "date". It's right under the header for "28 Date input formats". |
| 18:31.46 | greycat | swi: GNOME overrides your dot files, probably. |
| 18:31.54 | rwp | However RFC 5322 appears to be simply yet another update of the RFC 822 date format. Same basic thing, new updated number. |
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| 18:33.10 | swi | greycat: but gnome-control-center i.e. in my locale correctly |
| 18:33.20 | swi | and shell too |
| 18:34.19 | rwp | greycat, What does the default locale date format on your HP-UX machine say? Is Stretch the same? Has Buster now broken compatibility with historical behavior? |
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| 18:34.56 | greycat | rwp: there's no single "historical behavior". Every implementation of libc has its own implementation of locales. |
| 18:35.18 | rwp | Right, but I am talking about the HP-UX implementation. I should remember it but it has been too many years. |
| 18:35.39 | rwp | And I don't feel like booting up my J-5000. And my Gecko doesn't boot anymore. Been meaning to fix that one of these days... |
| 18:35.42 | greycat | hpux10: # LC_ALL=en_US.iso88591 date |
| 18:35.42 | greycat | Fri, Jan 25, 2019 11:56:02 AM |
| 18:36.04 | greycat | observes that this machine's ntp daemon is dead |
| 18:36.47 | rwp | Hmm... Not the way I remember it. Thanks! (I probably should boot up that J-5000 every few years anyway...) |
| 18:38.26 | rwp | swi, I am dangerously close to suggesting putting your basic environment variables like LANG into ~/.xsessionrc so that they are sourced automatically by your Desktop Environment when it starts. |
| 18:38.48 | greycat | except that GNOME will override those |
| 18:38.57 | greycat | and possibly other DEs will also do that |
| 18:39.31 | greycat | GNOME goes out of its way to make it impossible to configure your environment using ANY traditonal mechanisms. |
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| 18:39.59 | swi | i dont' have .xsessionrc |
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| 18:40.13 | rwp | I do so much hate the gconf configuration method... |
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| 18:40.39 | swi | greycat: is gnome override locale setting to what setting? Set's in gnome-control-center ? |
| 18:41.02 | rwp | swi, You won't but you can create it and if it exists then X11 will source it before starting the window manager. |
| 18:42.26 | swi | rwp: on my work pc i dont' have xsessionrc, but i dont have such problem there. All gnome apps runs in my locale, not english |
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| 18:43.06 | greycat | There are many files which do not exist by *default* but which will have an effect if you *create* them. .xsessionrc is one of them. |
| 18:43.18 | jhutchins | ,v cockpit |
| 18:43.19 | rwp | swi, greycat says that gnome will override the settings from there anyway. |
| 18:43.19 | judd | Package: cockpit on amd64 -- jessie-backports-sloppy: 160-1~bpo8+1; jessie-backports-sloppy: 162-1~bpo8+1; stretch-backports: 172-1~bpo9+1; stretch-backports: 185-1~bpo9+1; buster: 185-1; sid: 186-1 |
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| 18:44.06 | rwp | swi, If you want to learn how X11 is started then start tracing through the /etc/X11/Xsession script and observing the possibilities. |
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| 18:44.38 | rwp | Things are set up to mostly work for everyone without any special configuration. The problem is the "mostly work" part, implying that it won't work for everyone. But it can be configured. |
| 18:45.04 | swi | rwp: so you mean there somewher in /etc i have en_US locale on one pc, and not have on other ? |
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| 18:45.55 | rwp | No, I didn't say that. I expect that if you are running gnome both places that gnome has a different setting in ~/.config/ somewhat in the two systems. Or they are different versions of gnome and default to different things. |
| 18:45.56 | kwami | Ricardo are you a portuguese speakker |
| 18:46.13 | rwp | There is a huge difference between gnome 2 and gnome 3 for example. HUGE difference. |
| 18:46.40 | kwami | I dont feel that difference at all |
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| 18:47.11 | swi | rwp: the system on both is the same version (sync every day or two) |
| 18:47.15 | rwp | kwami, Between gnome 2 (now maintained as mate) and gnome 3 you didn't think they were hugely different? (my eyes are wide with shock) |
| 18:47.52 | rwp | swi, Hmm... It's a problem. There must be a difference somewhere. With persistence searching you should be able to find it. |
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| 18:48.33 | swi | rwp: yeah, try to find it a couple of days. May it be somewhere in dconf ? |
| 18:49.23 | rwp | Let's go back to what we know. Alt-F2 starts up a command question. If you run nautilus you get your desired locale settings. |
| 18:49.48 | rwp | You could also run a terminal and then run locale but it probably will say what you want to see, since you say nautilus works as you wish there. |
| 18:50.02 | rwp | But if you pick nautilus from a menu then it does not use your locale. |
| 18:50.18 | swi | yes |
| 18:50.30 | swi | and gedit too (i mean not just nautilus) |
| 18:50.38 | rwp | That implies to me that the gnome window manager managing the menus (what is the name?) is not getting the locale setting. Which would be bad because that has a large footprint. |
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| 18:51.01 | swi | but nautilus named in menu in my locale |
| 18:51.20 | rwp | It is possible that your locale settings are in ~/.bashrc and the Alt-F2 is loading it before running the command. I don't know. I haven't used gnome since years and years. |
| 18:51.20 | greycat | rwp: It's so much worse than that. When you spawn a terminal in GNOME, it is *not* spawned as a child of the window manager. Instead, GNOME sends a message to dbus, and dbus spawns it. |
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| 18:51.38 | greycat | Everything you know about Unix does not apply to GNOME. |
| 18:52.06 | rwp | You are definitely right about dbus being worse. :-( |
| 18:52.14 | swi | is gnome override locale with gsettings get org.gnome.system.locale region ? |
| 18:52.21 | greycat | Try It And See |
| 18:52.47 | rwp | It's definitely a case of: "I love you. You are perfect. Now let me change you in every possible way." |
| 18:53.20 | swi | because gsettings get org.gnome.system.locale region return the same locale i have in zsh |
| 18:53.28 | rwp | If dbus is involved then it is the locale setting of the receiver that is launching the process that matters. |
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| 18:55.46 | greycat | I'm not sure about all the other parts of GNOME. I don't use it. I only know about the terminal thing because of past attempts by people on the debian-user mailing list to figure out what in the *hell* is going on and why they can't make it work the way they want. |
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| 18:57.34 | swi | greycat: ok. let assume gnome is bad as and have it own oppinion what locale to use. Will it use locale that is set in it Setting -> Region ? |
| 18:57.48 | greycat | Again, I don't use it. |
| 18:57.57 | greycat | Try It And See |
| 18:58.04 | swi | i'm alleady |
| 18:58.09 | swi | allready* |
| 18:58.35 | swi | all the gnome in that locale in setting, but with this effect :) |
| 18:59.22 | swi | ok. i think i need dig deeper in finding diff between my two pc, somewhere in .config or /etc setting |
| 18:59.23 | rwp | swi, I am not using gnome either. But if you are using gnome and have tried all of the gnome ways then only workarounds exist. I suggest creating your own command that sets the locale as you desire and then launches nautilus, gedit, the others. |
| 18:59.34 | rwp | Pilots say, "Fly the airplane. Don't let the airplane fly you." |
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| 19:00.19 | rwp | And also since this seems to be gnome specific behavior then perhaps asking #gnome (is that it?) or other gnome venue might get a better answer. |
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| 19:01.07 | swi | rwp: it seems so |
| 19:01.13 | greycat | there appears to be a #gnome channel, yes |
| 19:01.25 | swi | anyway thanks a lot |
| 19:01.41 | swi | i find some tips to where to search |
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| 19:01.47 | swi | greycat: rwp thank you |
| 19:01.47 | rwp | Good luck! If you figure it out I would be curious as to the answer. |
| 19:02.02 | swi | ok :) |
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| 19:15.58 | murii | Can you guys tell me the output of: glxinfo | grep 'version' |
| 19:15.59 | murii | ? |
| 19:16.02 | murii | I get 13.0.6 |
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| 19:17.05 | greycat | Running polls is not welcome. |
| 19:17.20 | murii | I just need one input |
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| 19:18.15 | PaddyF | how can i get to the root of these sections and subsections, please: https://packages.debian.org/stable/admin/ |
| 19:19.22 | bites | this? https://packages.debian.org/stretch/ |
| 19:19.43 | PaddyF | no, i mean the place where it is defined |
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| 19:20.19 | bites | in the control file of the source package. apt-cache show <pkg> to view it for each package. |
| 19:20.31 | swi | rwp: find it. |
| 19:21.29 | swi | greycat: seems like not all system locale setting it's ignore :) |
| 19:21.54 | PaddyF | bites: does unrar-free show the section for you? |
| 19:22.11 | bites | Section: utils |
| 19:22.52 | PaddyF | not there for me |
| 19:23.08 | greycat | PaddyF: what are you trying to do? |
| 19:23.36 | PaddyF | i try to rebuild https://packages.debian.org/stable/... manually |
| 19:23.58 | swi | rwp: remove all from /etc/default/locale and ta-da - now all the gnome in my locale |
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| 20:23.28 | sn00ker | hi all |
| 20:23.29 | sn00ker | https://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?1191882 |
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| 20:23.34 | sn00ker | can anyone help? |
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| 20:26.21 | clif_h | Is it possible to instruct partman-auto in preseed.cfg to create an ext4 filesystem with journaling turned off? Or is the only way to do this to run tune2fs on the filesystem afterwards? |
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| 20:28.58 | shinzo | I created a debian live gnome bootable usb, remembered having a memtest option in the boot menu, but is not there now, how can I run the memtest? |
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| 20:31.36 | shinzo | although the live image back then was call "rescue" which doesn |
| 20:31.46 | shinzo | t seem t be available anymore |
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| 20:38.52 | clif_h | well it looks like partman can't pass options to mkfs per this bug report https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=905241 sad face |
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| 20:43.46 | Myros | Hello, i'm currently in an initramfs busybox thingy shell, i cant boot. I renamed my vg, and update(d)-grub. I've edited fstab to match the new vg's name.if i try to unlock my luke_crypt partition it gives me an unknown fstype error. If i try blkid it shows me the disk. If i try cryptsetup open /... It says the device already exist. What can i do? |
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| 21:16.18 | sn00ker | waht ist this => 20190125141000 +0100 <= for an time format and how i convert btw create it? |
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| 21:23.01 | blackflow | sn00ker: convert to what? that looks like yyyymmddHHMMSS z |
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| 21:45.37 | petn-randall | blackflow: They're likely crossposting and busy responding to the dozen other channels. |
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| 21:46.17 | blackflow | petn-randall: heh, yeah |
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| 22:30.52 | rant | Myros: your fstab is wrong |
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| 22:31.26 | rant | Myros: if you are getting a device already exists with cryptsetup, the container is open but the fs is not specified right.. you probably used the container in fstab and not the fs inside it |
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| 22:32.27 | rant | if you changed the container you were suppose to change crypttab not fstab |
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| 22:36.32 | ryouma | blackflow: date might be albe to |
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| 23:00.36 | blackflow | ryouma: to _what_ tho, that's the $32k question atm |
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| 23:10.59 | borrougagnou | Hi ! I'm back after less than 1month + lot of exams ! |
| 23:11.11 | borrougagnou | I have always my problem.... |
| 23:11.52 | borrougagnou | and I think the problem is Xorg... not XFCE4... |
| 23:12.21 | borrougagnou | + my XFCE4 crashing today absolutely IDK why with that .... https://ghostbin.com/paste/5v63u |
| 23:12.39 | borrougagnou | Fatal IO error 11 ... |
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| 23:24.23 | borrougagnou | debian repo backports is just awful... lots of bug... |
| 23:27.21 | FinalX | no shit, that's the whole salespitch of backports |
| 23:27.40 | FinalX | it pays to read before enabling it, instead of complaining about it: first line in the "About backports"-section: https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ |
| 23:27.52 | FinalX | you get what you ask for.. |
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| 23:28.53 | borrougagnou | the problem is, I need to use backports repo for my Wireless card... |
| 23:29.07 | borrougagnou | Wireless card who use Kernel 4.10 + |
| 23:29.39 | rant | so use it then |
| 23:30.42 | borrougagnou | I use it... but I have a lots of bug now |
| 23:31.24 | borrougagnou | Ho ! I'm wrong ! My Wireless card need to use Kernel 4.14 |
| 23:31.47 | borrougagnou | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005511/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html |
| 23:32.25 | rant | is there something someone can help you with? |
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| 23:33.02 | borrougagnou | that's why I use backport repo.... but it's fully bugged |
| 23:33.19 | borrougagnou | with Xorg/XFCE4 |
| 23:33.19 | rant | you need to be more specific |
| 23:33.39 | rant | borrougagnou: how did you "use backports"? |
| 23:33.49 | rant | because something tells me you did it ALL WRONG |
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| 23:34.35 | rant | backports is not a repo you use IN PLACE OF a normal Debian stable repo, nor is it something you "upgrade" or "dist-upgrade" to.. |
| 23:34.50 | rant | to use a kernel from backports this should have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Xorg or XFCE |
| 23:35.14 | borrougagnou | apt install -t stretch-backports linux-image-amd64 linux-header-<uname -a for check version> firmware-iwlwifi |
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| 23:35.39 | borrougagnou | I hve send last time a video about weird thing begin to appear in XFCE4 after an upgrade/full upgrade... |
| 23:36.00 | borrougagnou | how can I access to irc debian log? |
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| 23:36.47 | borrougagnou | my screen is fully bugged, icon dispapear, but reapear when I move mouse into this etc... |
| 23:36.55 | ryouma | backports is not as nicely supported as the main repos. it would be great if it were nicely supported for certain user level applications like browsers and video and audio and bittorrent, but this isn't the case at this time. |
| 23:37.16 | rant | !irclog |
| 23:37.16 | dpkg | i heard irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23debian/ , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ |
| 23:37.17 | borrougagnou | and today, idk why, my Xorg crashing with that https://ghostbin.com/paste/5v63u |
| 23:37.35 | borrougagnou | rant: ha ! thx |
| 23:37.59 | borrougagnou | oof ! per day... that difficult, but I search |
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| 23:46.30 | borrougagnou | I found my post when I installed the new firmware: 20181127 but nothing recent with my bug... |
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| 23:54.38 | borrougagnou | where is the log between 20181205 and 20181223... in rikers.org ? + in the "thegrebs" website I don't found absolutely nothing about me |
| 23:57.14 | borrougagnou | HA ! good fortunately I keep the video on discord, so: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/452443077467176971/528409711742156801/ok.mp4 |
| 23:57.22 | borrougagnou | It's a rendering problem... |
| 23:58.59 | borrougagnou | and I discover how generate that (atm) just put stand by computer, lightDM request me to enter my login/password, and the bug appear... |