| 00:00.30 | rant | over7head: your sources should be "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main contrib non-free" and "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free" |
| 00:00.34 | rant | those three lines |
| 00:00.35 | rant | for now |
| 00:00.37 | BCMM | rant: RTL8188EU is a chipset rather than product name. it's the name of the kernel driver even |
| 00:00.56 | rant | yes and like most chipsets there are probably many revisions of it |
| 00:01.24 | rant | I dont go by generic names I only look into hardware issues if I have the exact details.. thats the least of the issues here right now |
| 00:02.01 | rant | over7head: the httpredir stuff technically still works, but its deprecated and will not be around much longer |
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| 00:02.20 | BCMM | sure, it refers to a group of chips. all of which use the same kernel driver and firmware. but that's not the point; the point is that it's available in every debian release that sane people are still using |
| 00:02.48 | rant | BCMM: well lets get them setup like sane people first :P |
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| 00:03.36 | rant | good news is /etc/debian_version and libc6 still reflect stretch so this is probably fixable |
| 00:04.19 | joepublic | in my admittedly minority opinion, adding "contrib nonfree" to support a replaceable $5 usb wifi dongle that has many counterparts that work in the free world is not "sane" |
| 00:04.30 | rant | heh |
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| 00:05.39 | over7head | rant i added this in sources.list |
| 00:05.46 | over7head | and removed all others |
| 00:05.52 | over7head | thanks |
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| 00:06.25 | rant | over7head: now you need to get rid of any and all sid packages.. we know a few of them from the apt policy output that are pinned.. you need to remove those pins |
| 00:06.42 | over7head | how |
| 00:08.49 | rant | over7head: look in /etc/apt/preferences or /etc/apt/preferences.d/ |
| 00:10.08 | rant | you may want to temporarily pin stable with a priority 1001, and try using upgrade / dist-upgrade or alternatively attempt to identify sid packages and remove them (possibly removing a ton of dependencies with them) |
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| 00:10.53 | rant | good news also is, based on your uname -r output you haven't update/upgraded recently.. and didnt have proper sources for stretch updates.. so.. |
| 00:10.54 | joepublic | List packages with no sources in sources.list: aptitude search '?obsolete' |
| 00:11.08 | joepublic | possibly helpful |
| 00:11.25 | over7head | etc/apt/preferences.d/ is empty |
| 00:11.54 | rant | over7head: and is there a file /etc/apt/preferences ? |
| 00:12.07 | rant | you have pins currently.. they have to be configured somewhere |
| 00:13.03 | over7head | yes i delated it because that file doesnt exits and i creaded it when i was tring install some dock, it was some things to paste there |
| 00:13.25 | rant | over7head: have you apt update since changing sources.list? |
| 00:13.45 | over7head | no |
| 00:13.52 | over7head | i want to clear first |
| 00:13.56 | over7head | but not sure how |
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| 00:14.15 | over7head | or should i update first? |
| 00:14.44 | rant | update just refreshes the package cache |
| 00:15.16 | rant | it'll remove all the available packages from the cache and replace them with the packages available from the new sources.list |
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| 00:15.40 | rant | if /etc/apt/preferences.d/ and /etc/apt/preferences are clear then the pins should be gone |
| 00:16.09 | over7head | i updated, both dir and file are clear |
| 00:16.25 | rant | lets try this then |
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| 00:16.49 | rant | is aptitude installed? |
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| 00:18.22 | over7head | yes, i just installed it |
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| 00:19.19 | rant | (apt policy;aptitude search '?obsolete')|nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 00:20.25 | over7head | https://termbin.com/52c6 |
| 00:20.43 | over7head | looks better now |
| 00:20.49 | over7head | haha |
| 00:20.51 | rant | there are basically two methods to getting sid out of there.. either remove the sid packages which may pull all their dependencies, which may be a lot of your system with it.. or replace them which can be done either by pinning stable to 1001 or by feeding each pakage name with package=version to apt |
| 00:21.14 | joepublic | pinned packages: libdrm-common libwayland-egl1 |
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| 00:21.45 | rant | joepublic: those arent pins thats output from aptitude |
| 00:21.46 | over7head | how i can know which packages is sid ? |
| 00:21.51 | joepublic | ah |
| 00:21.55 | rant | joepublic: pins would not look like that |
| 00:22.05 | rant | thats what the aptitude output looks like |
| 00:22.16 | rant | the pins are gone now |
| 00:22.20 | joepublic | apt install libdrm-common/stretch libwayland-egl1/stretch |
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| 00:23.32 | rant | oveafter you resolve that I'd apt upgrade because you had no security or stretch-updates before.. so you probably have a lot of updates available |
| 00:23.58 | rant | then I'd like to know how you start X normally.. are you doing it manually or via a DM? |
| 00:24.04 | over7head | 9 upgrades |
| 00:24.16 | rant | at least one of them should be a kernel update |
| 00:24.24 | over7head | but how i can know what packages to remove |
| 00:26.07 | rant | over7head: joepublic just tld you how to replace those two packages with stretch versions |
| 00:26.36 | over7head | Release 'stretch' for 'libdrm-common' was not found |
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| 00:26.41 | over7head | same for other |
| 00:27.19 | rant | ,v libdrm-common |
| 00:27.20 | judd | Package: libdrm-common on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 2.4.91-2~bpo9+1; stretch-backports: 2.4.95-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.4.97-1; sid: 2.4.97-1 |
| 00:27.45 | over7head | can i delate them and install it again? |
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| 00:28.06 | rant | tell it to remove them but if it wants to remove more than those two packages dont confirm it yet |
| 00:28.19 | rant | if its only removing those two, thats fine |
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| 00:31.16 | over7head | https://justpaste.it/6k5nn |
| 00:31.23 | over7head | why i have this ? |
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| 00:33.29 | rant | over7head: apt -s remove libdrm-common libwayland-egl1 | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 00:33.34 | rant | that message was cut off |
| 00:34.00 | rant | but the long and short of it is, you wound up with two packages from sid which don't exist in stable and yet several things depend on |
| 00:34.10 | rant | ,v libwayland-egl1 |
| 00:34.11 | judd | Package: libwayland-egl1 on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 1.16.0-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.16.0-1; sid: 1.16.0-1 |
| 00:36.05 | rant | over7head: good news is, they're both in stretch-backports so you can add a sources.list line for "deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main contrib non-free" then apt update, and apt -t stretch-backports install libdrm-common=2.4.91-2~bpo9+1 libwayland-egl1=1.16.0-1~bpo9+1 |
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| 00:39.26 | over7head | https://termbin.com/xq0a |
| 00:39.43 | gmzamz | Okay, I"m at the end of my rope |
| 00:39.57 | gmzamz | How on earth do I get vfio to bind to my graphics card |
| 00:40.42 | over7head | whatever i run apt get install, remove, update... it list me all of that do i want to remove |
| 00:40.43 | over7head | xorg |
| 00:40.48 | gmzamz | I can't get it to bind during boot nor in user space |
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| 00:41.28 | gmzamz | when I try to manually bind it it complains that there isn't a device, but stat sees it |
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| 00:42.04 | gmzamz | Super confused about this |
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| 00:44.54 | over7head | how i can get rid of that apt output ? |
| 00:45.38 | over7head | why apt thing i dontt need xorg and my userland ? |
| 00:46.27 | jmcnaught | over7head: did you remove any meta packages like task-desktop or gnome-core or similar? |
| 00:47.07 | rant | jmcnaught: undoing a minor frankendebian here |
| 00:47.19 | rant | had some drm packages from sid and such |
| 00:48.02 | rant | the sources.list is all fixed and all packages except 2 (libdrm-common and libwayland-egl1) are at stretch versions now |
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| 00:49.50 | jmcnaught | gmzamz: for vfio on my stretch system I made a file /etc/modprobe.d/local-vfio.conf with the line: "options vfio-pci ids=1002:67ef,1002:aae0", the edited /etc/default/grub the line 'GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="apparmor=0 intel_iommu=on modules-load=vfio_pci"', then ran update-grub |
| 00:50.09 | rant | over7head: the easy fix is to let it remove it all then reinstall task-gnome-desktop or whatever it is you want |
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| 00:50.20 | jmcnaught | your PCI-IDs will probably be different |
| 00:50.25 | rant | over7head: the slightly harder version is to run down where the problem lies and fix it :P |
| 00:50.42 | de-facto | How can i import a GPG private key with password protection? I am limited to the command "cat pkey.pem | /usr/bin/gpg --batch --import -" but i can modify the key |
| 00:51.06 | gmzamz | jmcnaught, I have two identical GPUs so I have to deal with PCI ids |
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| 00:52.02 | gmzamz | even attempting to manually bind my pci bus id to vfio is saying that it doesn't exist |
| 00:52.41 | rant | over7head: or task-lxde-desktop or whatever it was you were using |
| 00:52.42 | de-facto | all I get is "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found." |
| 00:53.17 | sentriz | i'm running debian on my home server - all it's running is a few docker containers. is it weird to not have created a user other than root? |
| 00:53.25 | over7head | rant i will do it |
| 00:53.33 | over7head | thanks for help |
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| 00:53.42 | sentriz | i'm sshing in as root which doesnt seem good. but there is no password auth |
| 00:53.52 | over7head | i supose my graphic driver would still not working |
| 00:54.05 | rant | over7head: only things I see there that task-lxde-desktop wouldnt pull in is possibly smplayer and firefox idk if those are included or not |
| 00:54.42 | rant | over7head: once you get that straight, if X is still not working properly we can help with that.. but first we had to get you running stretch |
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| 00:55.56 | over7head | its removing all now |
| 00:56.01 | rant | over7head: but easier than running it down would be letting it remove that stuff then doing apt install task-lxde-desktop smplayer firefox |
| 00:56.07 | over7head | xorg server, xorg drivers... |
| 00:56.13 | rant | then your frankendebian should be fixed |
| 00:56.26 | rant | over7head: those are all meta packages mostly those xorg, etc.. |
| 00:56.26 | over7head | i just hope it will note remove wpa and firmware |
| 00:57.19 | rant | over7head: no, those two sid packages were drm related.. wont affect the wifi.. and I dont see any wifi packages in that simulation you ran and pasted |
| 00:57.46 | over7head | im still in x and it removes it |
| 00:58.00 | over7head | probably from memory |
| 00:58.16 | rant | doesnt matter stuff is still in memory and most those are just empty metapackages |
| 00:58.21 | over7head | its better to qut and install from console |
| 00:58.47 | rant | over7head: i.e. if foo is a metapackage depending on bar, baz, qux and you remove qux it'll remove the metapackage foo that depended on it, but bar and baz will remain |
| 00:59.16 | rant | over7head: all that stuff at the top of your paste https://termbin.com/xq0a where it says the following packages are no longer required.. those are actual packages.. |
| 00:59.29 | rant | over7head: once you reinstall task-lxde-desktop or such it'll depend on those again |
| 00:59.34 | rant | and they'll stay |
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| 01:05.57 | over7head | im back |
| 01:06.01 | over7head | it was fast |
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| 01:06.39 | gmzamz | jmcnaught, THANKS |
| 01:06.57 | gmzamz | No idea how I missed that modules-load kernel option |
| 01:07.12 | gmzamz | But it did the trick |
| 01:08.27 | de-facto | why would "cat pkey.pem | /usr/bin/gpg --batch --import -" error out with "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found." for a private encrypted key exported with --armor? |
| 01:08.55 | de-facto | this gpg software is a true nightmare :( |
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| 01:09.51 | jmcnaught | gmzamz: glad you got it working. Its documentation is kinda hidden in systemd-modules-load(8) when most of the other kernel command line parameters are in systemd(1) |
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| 05:13.41 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.7 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 05:17.25 | rwp | Deihmos, At login time the graphical login manager you use (there are several available) will give you the option to select the one you log into. That's the simplest way to select a specific desktop. There are also other ways. |
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| 05:21.44 | raidensnake | does anyone know how to set up a wifi connection that's on 5G mode? |
| 05:22.08 | raidensnake | I keep getting authentication failed |
| 05:23.33 | well_laid_lawn | you might be getting cancers too |
| 05:24.01 | dvs | ??? |
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| 05:53.43 | Sveta | raidensnake: on what device? |
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| 06:08.35 | raidensnake | why is it debian doesn't work on 5G networks? |
| 06:08.44 | *** join/#debian smokals_ (~smokals@d49-198-65-12.rdl2.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 06:09.21 | raidensnake | as in 5g wifi networks |
| 06:09.59 | *** join/#debian Sleepy63 (~Sleepy63@47.185.207.134) |
| 06:11.26 | *** join/#debian cornel (~cornel@89.136.1.55) |
| 06:11.30 | cornel | hello |
| 06:11.47 | cornel | where can i get a buster installer from? |
| 06:12.04 | cornel | oops |
| 06:12.11 | cornel | read topic |
| 06:12.26 | *** join/#debian Al_lA (~derwhalfi@118.148.70.178) |
| 06:12.40 | cornel | but i can not join #debian-next |
| 06:13.00 | cornel | so back here, anybody knows the answer? |
| 06:13.29 | rwp | raidensnake, 5G WiFi works fine for me. Perhaps you are having driver problems? |
| 06:13.40 | rwp | !debian-next |
| 06:13.40 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 06:14.05 | cornel | good point, rwp, thank you |
| 06:14.57 | rwp | cornel, Regardless: https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/ and https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 06:17.29 | cornel | thank you rwp ! |
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| 06:20.33 | Sveta | raidensnake: debian or ubuntu? |
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| 06:25.19 | raidensnake | tried debian didn't work |
| 06:26.13 | l0xy | is that a reference to that linus torvalds comment? lol |
| 06:26.20 | rant | debian doesn't need to work, its supported by its users :P |
| 06:26.37 | raidensnake | I was replyimg to a message about my wifi problem |
| 06:26.42 | raidensnake | replying* |
| 06:26.55 | l0xy | lol my bad |
| 06:28.06 | rant | I have no issues with connecting 5ghz wifi I just choose not to use it |
| 06:28.46 | nickgaw | I would try the unofficial installation images that have the firmware installed and see if this fixes the issue. |
| 06:28.53 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@host-static-188-208-114-197.moldtelecom.md) |
| 06:29.08 | raidensnake | I don't have a choice since where I live has a public wifi on a light pole blocking everything reunning 2.4ghz |
| 06:29.09 | rant | I would try answering Sveta's questions :P |
| 06:29.24 | raidensnake | running* |
| 06:29.29 | Sveta | raidensnake: on what systme does the wifi problem occur? |
| 06:29.36 | Sveta | raidensnake: on debian or on ubuntu? |
| 06:30.35 | rant | lets not forget "on what device?" asked over half an hour ago |
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| 06:32.00 | raidensnake | I've tried debian |
| 06:32.11 | Sveta | which version of debian did you try? |
| 06:32.26 | raidensnake | stretch |
| 06:33.13 | Sveta | on what device is it? what hardware? |
| 06:33.28 | raidensnake | Microsoft Surface Pro 5 LTE |
| 06:33.39 | Sveta | ok, with debian on it what does "lspci -vmmnn" say? |
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| 06:35.33 | raidensnake | SDevice: 88W8897 [AVASTAR] 802.11ac Wireless [045e] |
| 06:35.59 | raidensnake | Slot: 01:00.0 Class: Ethernet controller [0200] Vendor: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. [11ab] Device: 88W8897 [AVASTAR] 802.11ac Wireless [2b38] SVendor: Unknown vendor [000a] SDevice: 88W8897 [AVASTAR] 802.11ac Wireless [045e] |
| 06:36.44 | *** join/#debian dtux (~dmtucker@2601:646:c401:5751:b858:477a:c826:6ba0) |
| 06:36.54 | Sveta | ok |
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| 06:43.41 | rant | idk if those things have resell value but looks to me like they retail for $1500 and if you can get that out of it, and dont want to use windows.. I'd sell the damn thing cause you can get 3 comparable laptops for that price easy |
| 06:44.17 | rant | this Lenovo X240 I got runs debian great and has a core i5 w/ a 256GB SSD and youu can find them for like $300 online |
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| 06:45.21 | raidensnake | they don't sell them here. |
| 06:45.32 | raidensnake | besides this was a gift from a late family member. |
| 06:46.49 | rant | well whatever shines your surface, heh.. I'd sell it cause even if it was a gift its still only 1/5th as useful as what its worth :P |
| 06:47.11 | rant | to someone who actually wanted a microsoft product |
| 06:47.43 | raidensnake | well I use it on trains anyway and it has onboard 5G |
| 06:47.46 | raidensnake | 4G] |
| 06:48.16 | rant | yes well thats an option on pretty much anything these days.. |
| 06:48.56 | rant | I'd have looked into your wireless card but I got nfc what that mess you pasted means |
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| 06:49.38 | rant | idk which if any of those is the 8 char vend/prod id code |
| 06:49.53 | rant | lspci -nn is much more readable |
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| 06:51.15 | raidensnake | it doesn't have nfc |
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| 06:53.01 | shtrb | raidensnake, are you sure this device really can handle 5G ? |
| 06:53.23 | raidensnake | yes |
| 06:53.43 | raidensnake | the device supports 802.11ac |
| 06:53.51 | raidensnake | 01:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88W8897 [AVASTAR] 802.11ac Wireless [11ab:2b38] |
| 06:53.59 | shtrb | raidensnake, could you describe the actual problem again (was it slow or just not connecting at all) ? |
| 06:54.25 | shtrb | or disconnecting repetadly (I may have missed some of your previous messages) |
| 06:54.31 | raidensnake | I can't connect to any 5G wireless network as it always fails authentication even though the correct password is entered. |
| 06:54.42 | raidensnake | it detecxts the network just fine |
| 06:54.48 | raidensnake | detects* |
| 06:55.36 | shtrb | Would it be possible to do dmesg | tail -n 25 after an attempt to authnticate and paste it to paste.debian.net , and in addition to do dmesg|grep -i firmware and paste that result ? |
| 06:57.27 | shtrb | It could be a - missing firmware issue, or a bad region selection (if you got the device in the EU and trying to connect in North America for example) |
| 06:57.37 | raidensnake | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:57.43 | raidensnake | didn't* |
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| 06:59.15 | shtrb | If you run dmesg , do you get any results or "dmesg: read kernel buffer failed: Operation not permitted" for example ? |
| 06:59.41 | raidensnake | no |
| 07:00.02 | shtrb | it was not a boolean question |
| 07:00.05 | raidensnake | the last message I got was the controller wasn't configured on startup |
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| 07:01.17 | shtrb | can you please check if the device is not blocked (or shutdown) - either via a button or a sudo rfkill -l |
| 07:01.41 | shtrb | sorry sudo rfkill (no -l in the end) |
| 07:01.44 | raidensnake | it doesn't have a button to disable it |
| 07:03.01 | shtrb | can you run sudo rfkill to see if it is blocked ? |
| 07:03.13 | shtrb | I'm trying to understand why it was not configured on boot |
| 07:03.30 | raidensnake | [ 5.611584] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlp1s0: link is not ready |
| 07:03.35 | raidensnake | that's all i get |
| 07:03.57 | raidensnake | when I try to connect it doesn't print anything else |
| 07:04.27 | shtrb | anything other than that ? (it just mean no ipv6 ) just before. if it fail to connect you should get something with deauthnticated reason (X) .. |
| 07:04.34 | raidensnake | no |
| 07:04.38 | raidensnake | that's the end of it |
| 07:04.46 | raidensnake | it doesn't print anything else |
| 07:04.58 | raidensnake | even when i tried to connect |
| 07:05.45 | shtrb | how do you know it has failed to connect ? is it possible for you to run ip addr to see if the card did get an ip ? |
| 07:06.09 | raidensnake | it doesn't connect it says authentication failed |
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| 07:06.20 | shtrb | perfect, where does it says so ? |
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| 07:06.28 | raidensnake | when it's trying to connect |
| 07:06.31 | shtrb | network-manager ui ? command line tool ? |
| 07:08.23 | raidensnake | both |
| 07:09.00 | shtrb | did you see failed to authnticate in /var/log/syslog , dmesg or some other place ? |
| 07:09.27 | rant | I see a patch from unstable about a month ago in wpasupplicant that could be related to this issue |
| 07:09.46 | rant | unfortunately there is no backport of wpasupplicant available |
| 07:10.00 | rant | ,checkbackport wpasupplicant |
| 07:10.02 | judd | Backporting package wpasupplicant in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 07:10.10 | rant | meh |
| 07:10.42 | raidensnake | [ 8.472984] mwifiex_pcie 0000:01:00.0: assoc failure: reason CONNECT_ERR_ASSOC_ERR_AUTH_REFUSED |
| 07:10.49 | raidensnake | this was in syslog |
| 07:11.42 | raidensnake | but here's the thing... it's using the correct password |
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| 07:15.02 | shtrb | wait, pcie @!$!@$. that might be the nasty non enable issue. If possible do a full shutdown and than start (not sleep). I had a similar issue on a dell laptop. |
| 07:15.23 | raidensnake | I tried that several times |
| 07:15.41 | shtrb | do you have any other pcie errors in dmesg/syslog ? |
| 07:16.34 | raidensnake | no |
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| 07:17.38 | shtrb | do you have message about firmware wakeup ? |
| 07:18.31 | rant | https://reposcope.com/package/wpasupplicant search in page for wpa_service_ignore-on-isolate.patch |
| 07:18.46 | raidensnake | [ 5.283353] mwifiex_pcie 0000:01:00.0: WLAN FW is active |
| 07:18.52 | rant | two hits in ubuntu mentioning merging changes last month from debian unstable |
| 07:18.54 | raidensnake | only this |
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| 07:19.48 | rant | though I'm not seeing any such patch on https://sources.debian.org/patches/wpa/2:2.7+git20190128+0c1e29f-1/ or for stretch or buster |
| 07:19.52 | shtrb | ok that is not the power mgmt issue mentioned in https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109681#c66, is there a chance you would paste your dmesg or systlog in paste.debian.net (minus your mac address, machine name , and serial numbers) ? |
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| 07:20.46 | raidensnake | I can't access paste.debian.net it's saying my ISP is blacklisted |
| 07:23.03 | Linuxlars | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:23.39 | rant | Linuxlars: so fsck /dev/mapper....--vg-root |
| 07:23.51 | Linuxlars | what should I then enter.... It all where coming up when I starting my computer |
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| 07:27.01 | Linuxlars | It also say that I should run fsck manually, but I have not experience this before so I have no idea about how that work |
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| 07:31.02 | shtrb | raidensnake, ptpb.pw ? |
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| 07:31.54 | raidensnake | same. ISP is blocked |
| 07:33.19 | shtrb | pastebin ? |
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| 07:33.59 | raidensnake | tried. I know why I get blocked it's cause my isp got hacked over 3 years ago. |
| 07:34.33 | shtrb | many ISP get hacked, there should be something really bad to not get out of that block list |
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| 07:35.04 | shtrb | come to ##debian-paste and paste it there |
| 07:37.33 | raidensnake | mine got put on a no-trust list |
| 07:37.49 | raidensnake | even microsoft and google don't trust them |
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| 07:52.31 | jaggz | where do I ask a q about debian multimedia support? I'm trying to use handbrake but its preview says I'm "missing gstreamer plugin .. h.264 (main profile) decoder" |
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| 07:54.22 | jaggz | debhelper, trying to tell me something? |
| 07:55.34 | shtrb | isn't H264 was banned and removed for licensing issues ? |
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| 07:57.15 | shtrb | ,v gstreamer010-plugins-bad |
| 07:57.16 | judd | No package named 'gstreamer010-plugins-bad' was found in amd64. |
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| 08:00.39 | jaggz | ,v gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad |
| 08:00.40 | judd | Package: gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4.4-2.1+deb8u2; jessie-security: 1.4.4-2.1+deb8u2; stretch: 1.10.4-1; buster: 1.14.4-1+b1; sid: 1.14.4-1+b1; experimental: 1.15.1-1; stretch-multimedia: 1:1.10.4-dmo2; buster-multimedia: 1:1.14.4-dmo4; sid-multimedia: 1:1.14.4-dmo5 |
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| 08:01.10 | jaggz | ,v gstreamer1.0-libav |
| 08:01.11 | judd | Package: gstreamer1.0-libav on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4.4-2; stretch: 1.10.4-1; buster: 1.15.0.1+git20180723+db823502-2; sid: 1.15.0.1+git20180723+db823502-2; experimental: 1.15.1-1; jessie-multimedia: 1:1.4.5-dmo1; stretch-multimedia: 1:1.10.4-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 1:1.14.4-dmo2; sid-multimedia: 1:1.14.4-dmo2 |
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| 08:01.54 | jaggz | how do I get the 1.15 installed? (if I should). I tried with upgrade -t experimental but it said "...already installed at the latest version (1:1.12.1-dmo1)" |
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| 08:02.06 | jaggz | shtrb ^ (hope I'm not bugging you) |
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| 08:03.22 | jaggz | (I'm just looking for a video conversion software that has preview really -- so I can more conveniently minimize my video sizes, while evaluating output quality) |
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| 08:03.55 | jaggz | vs. writing my own script wrapper around ffmpeg :) |
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| 08:07.49 | shtrb | jaggz, sorry I was out for getting cookies. If you already have the package there is a good chance that h264 didn't come back |
| 08:08.06 | jaggz | shtrb, ahh, thanks. |
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| 08:09.52 | jaggz | shtrb, any idea about ffmpeg not accepting my audio (a vlc capture of my old vhs tape). The stream is coming in as Audio: none (mp3 / 0x2033706D), so ffmpeg says "Decoder (codec none) not found for input stream" |
| 08:10.05 | jaggz | not really a debian question |
| 08:10.06 | shtrb | .v libavcodec-extra |
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| 08:10.19 | shtrb | ,v libavcodec-extra |
| 08:10.20 | judd | Package: libavcodec-extra on amd64 -- jessie: 6:11.12-1~deb8u1; jessie-backports: 7:3.2.5-1~bpo8+1; jessie-backports: 7:3.2.10-1~deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch: 7:3.2.12-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 7:3.2.12-1~deb9u1; sid: 7:4.0.2-1; buster: 7:4.1-1; sid: 7:4.1-1 |
| 08:10.41 | shtrb | jaggz, try in stalling libavcodec-extra (because it might let you have H264) |
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| 08:11.26 | shtrb | jaggz, no. but maybe someone on the debconf-video team would know (oftc) as they handle media |
| 08:11.55 | jaggz | darn conflicts. libavcodec-extra57 : Conflicts: libavcodec57 but 10:3.4.5-dmo1~bpo9+3 is to be installed |
| 08:12.25 | jaggz | (and -extra depends on -extra57, but it is not going to be installed) |
| 08:13.04 | shtrb | are you sure you don't have several debian dists in sources.list ? you might like to adjust your aptprefernces |
| 08:13.19 | jaggz | I *think* there might be an issue with the format vlc's writing out -- the audio with a "none" codec. Not sure how it's "none" but has mp3 and some hex code there |
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| 08:24.56 | jaggz | shtrb, my sources.list: http://paste.debian.net/1066518/ |
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| 08:26.08 | shtrb | In that case I don't see why you had a conflict like that (you have effectively only stretch and stretch debug in your source) |
| 08:26.36 | jaggz | shtrb, maybe some -multimedia forced stuff confusing it |
| 08:26.42 | jaggz | not sure |
| 08:26.49 | shtrb | Oh I have missed that one |
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| 08:32.11 | jaggz | shtrb, I just wrote my own script. got the output from winff (ffmpeg wrapper) which was helpful to assemble the commandline |
| 08:32.45 | jaggz | but its gui has some limits that wouldn't work for me (I need to pass "-acodec mp3" prior to -i, to force the input codec) |
| 08:33.03 | jaggz | I forked their repo so I could maybe contribute to it.. turns out it's coded ... in pascal! |
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| 08:33.30 | jaggz | so, while I wait for 1gb of pascal ide to install, I'm just using my own script now.. :/ |
| 08:34.27 | PaddyF | whats the package name of the pascal code? |
| 08:34.37 | jaggz | lazarus is the ide |
| 08:34.52 | PaddyF | no, the package that is the reason why you install lazarus-ide |
| 08:35.02 | jaggz | wow.. compiled in like, .1s .. not used to that. tiny app I know, so.. :) |
| 08:35.05 | jaggz | https://github.com/jaggzh/winff/blob/master/winff/COMPILE.TXT |
| 08:35.26 | jaggz | probably the original is what you want though huh :) https://github.com/WinFF/winff |
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| 08:36.18 | PaddyF | thanks |
| 08:36.41 | jaggz | PaddyF, using that instead of handbrake. I'm not sure which is preferable yet since neither worked for me. |
| 08:37.09 | PaddyF | it looks hackish, yes |
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| 08:38.35 | jaggz | PaddyF, https://github.com/amiaopensource/ffmpeg-amia-wiki/wiki/3)-Graphical-User-Interface-Applications-using-FFmpeg |
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| 08:40.20 | PaddyF | i thought you were able to locate a pascal package in the debian repositories :) |
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| 08:51.16 | jaggz | PaddyF, yeah -- it's compiled though, but winff is in our distros. |
| 08:51.22 | jaggz | if that's what you're talking about |
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| 08:53.04 | PaddyF | Tag: implemented-in::TODO |
| 08:53.06 | PaddyF | :( |
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| 08:53.34 | PaddyF | maybe relatively new, hmmm |
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| 08:54.37 | PaddyF | not at all according to https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/winff |
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| 09:01.09 | jaggz | PaddyF, even in stable it matches their website's packaged versions. (1.5.5 iirc.. but I closed it down) |
| 09:01.24 | jaggz | closed down lazarus too. :) |
| 09:01.28 | PaddyF | hehe |
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| 09:09.47 | ballball | I was looking to install the nvidia/gp108 firmware today since my laptop reported it missing, but it seems that some of the files are just links? apparently that's not supposed to be the case though. any idea what's going on? |
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| 09:59.14 | jaggz | PaddyF, bleh.. I also wanted side-by-side comparison, so I just bash scripted it up: http://paste.debian.net/1066525/ |
| 09:59.45 | jaggz | now THAT's pretty hackish, but it works. It doesn't clean up its files right now -- just leaves them in /tmp/ |
| 10:00.23 | PaddyF | nice one |
| 10:01.16 | PaddyF | in just that short amoung of time you put all this together? |
| 10:01.23 | jaggz | you just run it with: you_name_me foo.mp4 200 # Will make a 30s clip of 200k video bitrate, starting 1m into the file, and display it and.. |
| 10:01.24 | PaddyF | amoung->amount |
| 10:01.52 | jaggz | short? been working on this for an hour! |
| 10:02.06 | PaddyF | 1 hour is short, come on :) you are good in bash! |
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| 10:02.17 | jaggz | more.. more like 1.5 or 2 |
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| 10:02.53 | jaggz | no.. more like 1.5 .. a bit before I closed down lazarus that was hanging around :) |
| 10:03.00 | PaddyF | :) |
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| 10:03.30 | jaggz | I guess. I always have to go look up parameter expansion stuff since I forget it. non stop googling for ffmpeg and ffplay options.. |
| 10:04.13 | jaggz | anyway, it gives a nice preview. Gets the window dimensions and places ffplay side by side. Unfortunately it uses xdotool for that because my ffplay doesn't accept -top and -left options to position it. |
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| 10:04.29 | jaggz | but.. very fast to find the resolution I want! yay. |
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| 10:05.22 | jaggz | it also tests the file versions so it doesn't remake what it doesn't need to. |
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| 10:22.33 | jaggz | PaddyF, better version: http://paste.debian.net/1066526/ |
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| 10:24.03 | PaddyF | jaggz: i cant proof read cause i dont know bash :) |
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| 10:24.33 | PaddyF | but the code structure looks better, yes |
| 10:25.04 | PaddyF | proof read? test read |
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| 10:25.20 | exifbono | Hello everyone. I am creating a username with an '@' inside, and I'll have to force the badname. What bad consequences should I expect from it? |
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| 10:25.54 | jaggz | PaddyF, now it closes the windows before a final conversion, if you ask it to convert: http://paste.debian.net/1066527/ |
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| 10:26.35 | PaddyF | i wont test run either cause there are too many clows around |
| 10:26.54 | jaggz | PaddyF, yes, safe not to. It's not complex code though. |
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| 10:27.10 | PaddyF | :) |
| 10:27.11 | jaggz | but I don't have time to teach it to you. I do sort of document some of it :) |
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| 10:33.27 | jaggz | PaddyF, okay, I made the time to explain each line that's not relatively readable: http://paste.debian.net/1066528/ |
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| 10:34.20 | PaddyF | jaggz: now i really need to try understanding it?? |
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| 10:36.17 | jaggz | PaddyF, nah. You don't even need to use it. However, know that it writes to a few /tmp/ files that are hard-coded, so that's safe. Then it kills some windows if it has their window id (the ffplay windows), so that's safe. Then it outputs to the inputfilename, with a hardcoded "-bitrate.mp4" added, and ffmpeg will ask if it finds that file already, so that should also be safe even if something messed up. |
| 10:36.26 | jaggz | so.. it should all be very safe and sound. :) |
| 10:36.46 | PaddyF | :D |
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| 10:37.22 | PaddyF | i need to setup the printer first - forgot that yesterday |
| 10:37.50 | jaggz | worst case should be if you have some other windows open with the /tmp/foo.mp4 files loaded into them -- those are files it made though. It might close such a window. |
| 10:38.44 | jaggz | so if you've been running this, then load the /tmp/ video up and are editing it, and that program sets the filename in its title.. then you run this script again.. it might close your window |
| 10:39.33 | jaggz | exifbono, I don't know. not sure if email will work with all programs. foo@bar@host.com ? |
| 10:40.24 | exifbono | jaggz, yeah is kind of an email address... o well, guess I'll see if something breaks up, not critical, just curiosity =) |
| 10:41.23 | jaggz | exifbono, try ##security maybe |
| 10:41.37 | exifbono | thanks jaggz :) |
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| 10:58.36 | Pichet_ | Hello, i'm trying to install nvidia-driver from the experimental branch (410.93-1), any idea why it recommends nvidia-settings (>= 410) but the lastest nvidia-settings in the repo are 396.54-1 from unstable |
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| 11:02.14 | Pichet_ | my upgrade path is from nvidia-drivers 396.54-1 (an old experimental version) to 410.93-1 (the lastest one) |
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| 11:03.42 | Pichet_ | from "aptitude install nvidia-driver -t experimental" output, the dependencies resolution seems good but it's removing nvidia-settings :/ |
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| 11:20.47 | Wulf | Hello. I can't do "python3.6 -m venv" on my unstable installation anymore. There's https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=918881 but no resolution. Is there any workaround or fix? |
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| 11:43.53 | blackflow | Wulf: install python-virtualenv |
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| 11:44.41 | blackflow | Wulf: sorry, python3-virtualenv (though it doesn't really matter, virtualenv can create venvs for different versions) |
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| 11:45.54 | Wulf | blackflow: makes no difference, and that package is kind of broken for other reasons |
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| 11:48.13 | blackflow | Wulf: well, you could ask on OFTC, they might know better |
| 11:48.23 | blackflow | !debian-next |
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| 11:48.24 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 11:49.21 | Wulf | ok, will bother them :) |
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| 11:50.32 | blackflow | Wulf: also note that on buster at least, python3 is 3.7, there' no more 3.6 to install venvs against. |
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| 11:53.02 | Wulf | blackflow: I seems deinstalling python3.6 solved my problem :-) |
| 11:53.13 | Wulf | thanks! |
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| 11:56.25 | cluelessperson | so, I set dnsdomainname on debian |
| 11:56.33 | cluelessperson | and now this machine won't respond to pings from other subnets |
| 11:56.37 | cluelessperson | why is that? |
| 11:56.49 | cluelessperson | example media.guest |
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| 12:07.08 | BCMM | cluelessperson: does the address resolve from the other subnets? |
| 12:07.38 | BCMM | i mean, are you successfully resolving a name, sending a ping to the right ip address, and getting no response? or just failing to resolve the name at all? |
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| 12:13.30 | at0m | BCMM: solved in ##networking. was a route issue. |
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| 12:16.32 | cluelessperson | BCMM: ah, I found out why |
| 12:16.39 | cluelessperson | I accidentally set another gateway |
| 12:16.41 | cluelessperson | broke routing |
| 12:16.43 | cluelessperson | fixed |
| 12:16.49 | BCMM | at0m: thanks |
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| 13:37.14 | ballball | not to spam but I never got any response so... I was looking to install the nvidia/gp108 firmware today since my laptop reported it missing, but it seems that some of the files are just links? apparently that's not supposed to be the case though. anyone have some idea what's going on? |
| 13:38.14 | Wulf | ballball: All I can do is guess: There's nothing wrong with having links. |
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| 13:47.16 | ballball | sure but the OS still expects something more |
| 13:47.19 | ballball | I put in the links |
| 13:47.37 | ballball | [ 46.227376] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: firmware: failed to load nvidia/gp108/acr/ucode_load.bin (-2) |
| 13:47.58 | ballball | it is there, it is just that it is a link because that's all I was given by Debian :/? |
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| 13:48.17 | ballball | thanks though |
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| 13:49.54 | blackflow | ballball: is the link valid tho? |
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| 13:52.21 | ballball | ....oh. maybe this makes a bit more sense now. one of them for example links to "../../gp102/acr/bl.bin" - but how could that be right? I guess it is though.... |
| 13:52.49 | ballball | I guess I will just try filling in these files |
| 13:52.51 | ballball | that it links to |
| 13:53.00 | blackflow | ballball: do you have the firmware-linux-nonfree installed? |
| 13:53.11 | blackflow | that pulls in firmware-misc-nonfree which includes the nvidia firmware |
| 13:53.20 | blackflow | but I don't think those are supposed to be symlinks |
| 13:53.28 | ballball | I just assumed these links were there just as placeholders |
| 13:53.31 | ballball | for some reason |
| 13:53.47 | ballball | I am just manually installing the firmwares I need since that turned out to be easy |
| 13:54.21 | blackflow | oh wait, they're symlinks, it's okay |
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| 14:43.57 | galex-713 | Hello |
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| 14:44.49 | galex-713 | What do you know as simple ways to dedup files under Debian? Specifically preserving permissions and metadata |
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| 14:45.02 | galex-713 | I want to begin doing backups |
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| 15:05.41 | petn-randall | galex-713: There are backup tools that do deduplication. Backups and deduplication are two different things though. |
| 15:05.57 | petn-randall | galex-713: If you want deduplicating backups, I can recommand borgbackup. |
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| 15:09.31 | rant | there are filesystems that do deduplication for that matter |
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| 15:12.42 | galex-713 | rant: yeah, btrfs and zfs, but they consume more space afaik |
| 15:12.51 | galex-713 | and the max I’ll get is a 2T storage |
| 15:13.37 | galex-713 | petn-randall: oh thanks! how simple it is? cli? how does it store stuff? like git? its own hierarchy? hardlinks? it preserves metadata? |
| 15:13.51 | galex-713 | petn-randall: yes I know, but since I want deduplicated backups |
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| 15:14.21 | galex-713 | there are so many backup tools out there, I begin to be scared to trap myself in a complex way of storing data that I might have a hard time quitting later if I change my mind |
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| 15:15.36 | galex-713 | So though I initially wanted something completely done, made for backups, I begin considering git, rsync, etc. but I’m unsure of what does dedup correctly, what preserve metadata, how to do incremental backups, and even more how to store backups remotely while encrypting them beforehand, while mirorring the same storage structure on the other side |
| 15:16.45 | galex-713 | rant: do you think btrfs can be good for backups I won’t access often but I neitherless want to access the most simple and transparent way? won’t I loose too much storage space? |
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| 15:18.49 | rant | I was just mentioning it regaurding deduplication.. I'd neither use it nor backup anything so.. not the person to ask |
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| 15:20.54 | pragomer | hi, I often get PDF files from my health insurance. these pdfs then contain a further embedded pdf file that is pw protected. in gnomes pdf viewer (evince) I cannot even click on the embedded pdf.. KDE's ocular tells me that there is an embedded pdf, also shows its filename, but I cannot open it (no ask for pw).. actually this only works under windows with adobe reader. any ideas for me? |
| 15:21.32 | rant | if I weren't beyond broke I'd just use RAID and incremental backups using tar or dd of important stuff.. but as it stands I dont have anywhere to backup to and can't afford the relatively cheap price of extra storage |
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| 15:22.45 | rant | pragomer: yes first insult your health insurance company as much as humanly possible for even using pdf much less embedding them inside other pdf.. then switch health insurance companies.. |
| 15:24.39 | rant | pragomer: also the term is nested, embedded in computing means something different and will confuse you easily finding solutions |
| 15:25.30 | pragomer | I am actually using the terminal tool "pdfdetach" which shows me the embedded files.. there i can also give the passphrase to it, but this tool says |
| 15:25.31 | pragomer | Unknown compression method in flate stream |
| 15:25.38 | galex-713 | rant: how can you do incremental backup with tar or dd? this are pretty much more for readonly stuff you won’t access often :o |
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| 15:26.08 | pragomer | are there some kind of certificates that damn adobe reader posseses and our linux pdf viewer dont? |
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| 15:26.25 | rant | galex-713: you'd need metadata obviously or to mount it and rsync or such :P |
| 15:26.40 | rant | galex-713: what part of I don't backup anything didn't you understand :P |
| 15:26.51 | galex-713 | ah ok |
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| 15:27.07 | galex-713 | but by RAID you mean exact physical backup? but how would you do that for a portable workstation, a laptop, the backup of which you won’t be willing to get with you most of time because it could break or be lost as well? |
| 15:27.17 | galex-713 | or are you speaking of a fixed static workstation? |
| 15:27.46 | rant | galex-713: by raid I mean like raid 5.. ruling out common single disk failures making data loss less likely in the first place |
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| 15:28.44 | galex-713 | I don’t know all RAIDs, never used any, so don’t know what’s raid5 :/ |
| 15:29.07 | galex-713 | isn’t raid like using several disks at the same time with same data on them, or some kind of redundancy, so that access is faster and data loss less likely? |
| 15:29.36 | rant | galex-713: stripes data across multiple disks, requires 3 or more disks, provides n-1 storage capacity with a fault tolerance of one disk, and has benefits of both performance and redundancy |
| 15:29.38 | petn-randall | galex-713: borgbackup is simple, it's a one-liner you can call in your backup scripts: BORG_CACHE_DIR=/mnt/target/borg_cache_saito /usr/bin/borg create --progress --stats --exclude-from /home/randall/Coding/randallscripts/borg_exclude_patterns /mnt/target/saito::saito_`date -Iminute` . |
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| 15:30.44 | galex-713 | rant: yeah but I won’t get so much disks :/ |
| 15:30.47 | galex-713 | max 2 I’d say |
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| 15:31.29 | galex-713 | petn-randall: does it backup the whole / filesystem? :o |
| 15:31.34 | galex-713 | (except the mounted target?) |
| 15:31.46 | galex-713 | and more importantly: how does it store the backup, how is it accessible? |
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| 15:38.17 | petn-randall | galex-713: If yo uask it to, yes. I recommend browsing the upstream documentation. |
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| 16:08.13 | galex-713 | petn-randall: but does it store it plain like git so that you can see everything in a tree as if it was not a backup, as a snapshot, as does git? or as it would if you just dd/rsync the whole stuff? |
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| 16:12.25 | petn-randall | galex-713: no, that would defeat the purpose of deduplication. |
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| 16:13.20 | petn-randall | galex-713: However, I think there are fuse things to do that. |
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| 16:18.11 | de-facto | Do you guys know what the correct MIME type of ".asc" gpg signatures (from gpg detach-sign) is? |
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| 16:24.20 | galex-713 | petn-randall: doesn’t git deduplicate? |
| 16:24.45 | galex-713 | petn-randall: that wouldn’t if you only use the current tree to store the deduplicated thing, and then reuse its data for other states, just as git does |
| 16:24.56 | galex-713 | like you mv and chmod etc. to get the other state |
| 16:25.29 | galex-713 | btw btrfs/zfs, as suggested before, do deduplication while having transparent file structure |
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| 16:32.04 | petn-randall | galex-713: Yes, but neither does online deduplication. And the astute reader will notice that btrfs and zfs are filesystems, not backup programs. |
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| 16:45.40 | yids | hi i have a question, i want to use my nvidia quadro fx1800 to do hardware x264 encoding with nvenc, but im not sure which graphics drivers I should use, i know have the ones from the non free repo, i see there is a package called libnvidia-encode1 but if i try to install that it wants to install different nvidia drivers (nvidia-kernel-dkms i think) , which it says are not supporting my card |
| 16:46.09 | yids | should i try the drivers from nvidia itself? |
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| 17:08.51 | Deihmos | What do you use for backup? I would like to create a backup of the hard drive that can be restored. Similar to what actions offered on windows |
| 17:09.01 | Deihmos | Acronis |
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| 17:10.26 | rant | yids: first of all please use lspci -nn the [1234:abcd] code aka pciid is the only bit relevant to looking up support for given hardware. Secondly you are likely using the nvidia-legacy-340xx driver which means you should also be installing the legacy encoder library |
| 17:10.27 | petn-randall | Deihmos: There are many tools to do that, depending on if you want to have a GUI or not, and many other things. |
| 17:10.52 | rant | yids: the more important thing here is what you plan to use to actually do this encoding.. as in application |
| 17:10.55 | Deihmos | I don’t have a GUI on the server |
| 17:11.05 | rant | yids: merely installing a binary library that supports your hardware |
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| 17:11.18 | rant | 's ability to encode doesnt make an app use it |
| 17:11.50 | rant | the app in question would have to be compiled against this library for it to be of any use, in which case it'd already be installed as a dependency |
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| 17:14.58 | rant | near as I can tell nothing in debian uses this library |
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| 17:15.53 | galex-713 | petn-randall: online? I want possibly to do that manually, to use btrfs or zfs features for backuping |
| 17:16.19 | galex-713 | as it allows snapshots and deduplication, if a lot of stuff is the same it can be handy |
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| 17:18.40 | rant | apt-rdepends -r -f Depends,Recommends,Suggests libnvidia-encode1 returns nothing |
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| 17:22.12 | rant | yids: furthermore looking at nvidia's support matrix, your card doesnt even seem to support nvenc even if you had an encoder compiled against that library |
| 17:22.27 | rant | yids: https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix |
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| 17:27.05 | rant | yids: nvenc was introduced in the Kepler line in 2012, your card is 2009 |
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| 17:28.27 | yids | rant: oh i thought i saw somewere that i should be supported |
| 17:29.24 | rant | yids: well you probably just generically read that quadro was supported.. your specific card predates nvenc technology, it supports cuda 1.1 and opencl 1.1 and has 64 cuda cores, but has no nvenc |
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| 17:29.56 | yids | ah |
| 17:30.08 | rant | and even if you had a card that supported it you'd need an encoder compiled against that library which debian doesn't have.. you'd have to recompile ffmpeg or get it from somewhere outside official debian sources |
| 17:30.28 | rant | merely installing the library does absolutely nothing because nothing in debian uses it |
| 17:31.12 | yids | hm yeah i was thinking to compile ffmpeg with nvenc support but yeah if my card doesnt support it its no use |
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| 17:34.09 | rant | i am a bit curious about it myself as i do a lot of encoding and would like to find ways to speed it up in future |
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| 17:36.07 | rant | yids i have done some research on the matter but no testing yet. i was contemplating clusters possibly of OPIPC2+E using clustercode |
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| 17:36.48 | yids | hm they have hardware encoders ? |
| 17:37.00 | rant | im curious if something like that vs nvenc which is more economical |
| 17:37.07 | rant | yids of course |
| 17:37.20 | yids | and what about vaapi, im still a bit confused about what that exactly is |
| 17:38.17 | yids | that also uses the gpu right |
| 17:38.37 | rant | yids: https://linux-sunxi.org/images/4/4b/Allwinner_H3_Datasheet_V1.2.pdf page 60 |
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| 17:39.54 | rant | yids: the OrangePi PC2 Plus E is 1.6ghz quad core as opposed to RPI3B+ 1.4ghz and uses 2GB DDR3 as opposed to the RPI3B+ 1GB DDR2 .. and its only about US$5 more |
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| 17:40.29 | rant | and even without the hwenc, you figure for like price of your average laptop you could get and cluster together 10 of those.. |
| 17:41.00 | rant | heh.. I'd think its got to be more economical.. but I haven't done any real world tests yet |
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| 17:42.10 | rant | yids: http://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort the support matrix shows the H3 Video Engine / Cedrus was mainlined as of 4.20 |
| 17:42.56 | rant | yids: at US$45 a piece... kinda worth experimenting with I'd think.. I just dont have the money right now :P |
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| 17:47.31 | rant | well depending on where you buy I suppose its 40-45 and if you buy bulk qty you can probably get em at RPI3B+ $35 pricetag |
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| 17:54.42 | yids | rant: and what about vaapi/vdpau ? https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU |
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| 18:01.55 | rant | idk I'm no expert.. its all confusing as hell to me too :P |
| 18:02.20 | rant | afaik its some means of directly writing fb memory idk much about it |
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| 18:19.00 | rant | the odd shit computers do never ceases to annoy me |
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| 18:21.46 | blackflow | garbage in, garbage out, tho |
| 18:22.03 | rant | I'd tried out this bitmask application on one machine, works perfectly.. tried it on another and the UI is not visible |
| 18:22.21 | rant | I tend to think of Debian Stable as being consistant :P |
| 18:22.39 | rant | I expect something I do on one machine to work the same on another running stable |
| 18:23.18 | rant | but then again this is my fathers computer we're talking about.. and if there is one thing that can throw a wrench in that idea, it'd be people who have NFC what they're doing |
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| 18:23.39 | blackflow | Debian Stable is consistent up until you apt install something. then all bets are off due to local configs 'fcourse. |
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| 18:24.12 | rant | yeah I was just trying to rule out local config issues, I even installed the backport of mate on here so it'd be the same as my machine |
| 18:25.00 | rant | turns out he kinda needed the mate backport.. soon as I restarted his DM the panel had like 3 of everything.. he thought the applets were getting removed and kept re-adding them but apprently somehow they were just disappearing but were still actually there |
| 18:25.34 | rant | that would explain why mate-weather-applet was spiking cpu usage the other day.. there were 3 of em :P |
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| 18:40.40 | t3st3r | rant> va-api and vdpau are basically about using HW decoder to decode video. And eventually some accelerated means to draw decoded frames, if available. |
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| 18:42.41 | rant | fair enough. |
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| 19:01.34 | randy408 | gdm wont load, im stuck on the tty |
| 19:02.57 | randy408 | 4.9 and 4.19 has the same behavior |
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| 19:04.10 | klh | What video driver ? |
| 19:04.50 | randy408 | intel igp, haswell |
| 19:07.26 | klh | fresh install ? |
| 19:07.31 | randy408 | it worked with 4.19 today, i dont remember upgrading anything that could break it like this, it's a stretch install |
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| 19:08.09 | klh | but 4.19 is not stretch |
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| 19:09.45 | randy408 | its in backports but i switched to 4.9 and it does the same thing |
| 19:10.28 | diogenes_ | randy408, when it was last successful boot? |
| 19:11.28 | rant | randy408: view the logs, try start x manually using xinit or such..etc |
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| 19:15.41 | randy408 | how do i downgrade x11 related packages? from backports to stable |
| 19:16.03 | randy408 | like libglx, mesa |
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| 19:18.35 | randy408 | i cant login as a regular user, startx as root starts but like the tty's it freezes and doesnt process input until i switch back from another tty |
| 19:19.08 | zleap | is it a good idea to start x as root ? |
| 19:19.16 | SlidingHorn | zleap: no. |
| 19:19.27 | zleap | thought so |
| 19:19.50 | randy408 | i cant switch to a regular user from there so that's useless |
| 19:19.55 | zleap | back in the mid 90's if you did that, the wall paper was red adn full of warning notices |
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| 19:28.02 | randy408 | oh its just gdm being a pile of garbage, nevermind |
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| 19:32.46 | randy408 | how can i even debug gdm? all the tty's glitch out every few seconds if i try to launch it |
| 19:33.33 | ws2k3 | how can i automate the upgrade from jessie to strech?i have been searching on google but didnt realy found anything |
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| 19:33.55 | joepublic | automate the upgrade? |
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| 19:34.04 | ws2k3 | joepublic yes |
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| 19:34.18 | joepublic | as opposed to installing each package by hand? as opposed to having to type apt upgrade? |
| 19:34.30 | joepublic | please define "automate" for this particular situation |
| 19:34.42 | bytechanger | Why did they call it stretch? |
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| 19:35.08 | ws2k3 | joepublic ofcrouse i need to replace the lines in /etc/apt/source.list and run run apt-get update;apt-get upgrade -y(i guess) but how do i automate the dist-upgrade also with -y ? |
| 19:35.14 | joepublic | debian releases are generally named after characters in the "Toy Story" film(s), one of which is a character named "stretch" |
| 19:35.22 | ws2k3 | joepublic he already left |
| 19:35.41 | joepublic | it's for the logs. |
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| 19:36.01 | joepublic | by automate, you mean, have it not ask you things? |
| 19:36.25 | ws2k3 | joepublic yes cause then i upgrade it by saltstack |
| 19:37.36 | joepublic | apt-get will take -y along with dist-upgrade |
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| 19:38.41 | ws2k3 | joepublic allright then i will try that thx |
| 19:38.44 | joepublic | you probably want -qq (quiet and assume yes) |
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| 19:51.59 | `whoami` | how many characters are there in toy story ? and what will happen when all of those names will be used already ? |
| 19:52.31 | klh | They just will choose another plan |
| 19:53.30 | joepublic | I heard there is Toy story 4 coming out |
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| 19:53.54 | joepublic | Over the decades, Toy Story is adding characters to the pool much faster than Debian is removing them |
| 19:54.16 | `whoami` | ah, nothing to worry about then :) |
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| 19:54.35 | joepublic | But perhaps one day someone will come in here and say "How can I upgrade to sidsdog? I am still running andysmom and I am worried about security upgrades" |
| 19:55.05 | `whoami` | hmpf.. :) |
| 19:55.21 | joepublic | "I have an even older system running pizzaplanetdeliverytruck, and i really liked the way it handled quantum entanglement" |
| 19:56.21 | zleap | lol |
| 19:57.23 | unborn | hello, do I need swap partition if my machine have 12 gig rams? also never hibernate my machine, just suspend |
| 19:58.04 | joepublic | unborn, a swap partition is not 100% necessary, but your system will probably run faster with one |
| 19:58.46 | klh | not sure it is really visible with actual harware and ssd |
| 19:59.20 | klh | ten years I don't use sawap with 8Gb rams and an old core2 |
| 20:00.21 | zeropoint | swap is a good idea for nearly any system. |
| 20:00.44 | joepublic | things just taking up space get swapped out, leaving that memory for cache and buffers = more speed |
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| 20:00.46 | n4dir | if you don't create a swap partition during installation, later you find out you need one, you can create a swap file. I guess, i never found out later "i need one" |
| 20:01.22 | klh | +1 n4dir |
| 20:01.39 | n4dir | i am sure you can do it, i am not sure if it is exactly the same thing, one has advantages over the other or not |
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| 20:02.16 | zeropoint | swap partitions, swap lvs, and swap files are used in all the same way. They get mapped as disk regions and used identically. |
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| 20:04.16 | unborn | so basically klh you don't use swap at all? I never seen swap used on any of my machines however 24gigs of hdd to be never used, that's why I am asking |
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| 20:05.27 | zeropoint | That's entirely too much swap space. |
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| 20:06.24 | joepublic | unless you are hibernating 24 gigs of (but why though) |
| 20:06.42 | klh | unborn: yes I don't use swap and I never notice a problem for that except speacial cases |
| 20:07.13 | zeropoint | unborn: Not using swap is misunderstanding the purpose of swap. I won't run a Linux system without at least some small amount of swap. |
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| 20:07.30 | zeropoint | But 24 gigs is beyond overkill, unless you're hibernating. |
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| 20:07.42 | joepublic | a swap partition is not 100% necessary, but your system can run faster with one |
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| 20:08.13 | n4dir | all of my machines are really lousy when it comes to RAM (most i got is 2 Gigs). I hardly ever see Swap being used. Rather: not at all, only on the really crappy ones with less than 512 MB. |
| 20:08.13 | EdePopede | even more with swap in a ramdisk? |
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| 20:08.34 | klh | joepublic: how can be swap faster than ram ? swap on ssd is not recommend for ssd life |
| 20:08.39 | joepublic | swap with ramdisk is probably unhelpful, but swap on zram ramdisk can be nice. |
| 20:08.49 | joepublic | klh, with even slow swap, things just taking up space get swapped out, leaving that memory for cache and buffers = more speed |
| 20:08.53 | EdePopede | free -mt reports a total of 7123 here, swapping is more of a problem than lack of swapspace. |
| 20:08.59 | unborn | so what size of swap would be ideal? |
| 20:09.03 | zeropoint | EdePopede: You don't understand swap. |
| 20:09.36 | EdePopede | you said that before |
| 20:09.40 | unborn | I always used to give it twice of ram size |
| 20:09.52 | zeropoint | unborn: For 12GB RAM? I wouldn't go beyond 4GB, personally. |
| 20:09.57 | joepublic | unborn, I do not know a scientific answer but 2GB or 4GB might help |
| 20:10.08 | zeropoint | EdePopede: And you still don't, hence repeating it. |
| 20:10.13 | joepublic | hmm, great minds think alike and so do we |
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| 20:10.28 | klh | joepublic: if it is not a scientific answer it is not a good answer ;) |
| 20:10.52 | EdePopede | zeropoint: and my hardware situation has exactly what to do with my understanding of swapspace? |
| 20:10.57 | joepublic | it's experimentally and theoretically determined, hence a good answer, but not rigorously so, hence not a scientific answer |
| 20:10.57 | zeropoint | klh: There is no scientific answer for swap allocations. Only recommendations. And 2 to 4 GB is about right. |
| 20:11.16 | zeropoint | EdePopede: "swapping is more of a problem than lack of swap space" means you don't understand swap. |
| 20:11.31 | klh | yeah but it is based on what ? If the system works well without ? Why ? |
| 20:11.32 | joepublic | michael larabel over at phoronix might have conducted a detailed swap study. I haven't. |
| 20:11.49 | EdePopede | zeropoint: actually you don't seem to understand what i've said. |
| 20:12.00 | joepublic | klh, I have nothing for you beyond "free up memory for cache+buffers = speed" |
| 20:12.12 | zeropoint | klh: Why are you asking questions when you aren't interested in the answers? Those questions have been answered repeatedly. You're happy without swap, don't use swap. Doesn't mean that's the best option. |
| 20:12.21 | EdePopede | i've never been out of ram even with only 7G of total memory. so where's the problem here? |
| 20:12.24 | joepublic | it's not even a recommendation, just a suggestion. |
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| 20:12.55 | joepublic | "not running out of ram" is a factor in deciding to use swap, but far from the only one. |
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| 20:13.30 | klh | zeropoint: I don't mean it is the best point, I just mean it depends on a personal use of the computer, so try both and see what is the best for you |
| 20:13.34 | zeropoint | swap isn't extra RAM. If you're running out of RAM, install more. swap is there to improve the performance and utilization of the RAM you have. |
| 20:13.57 | EdePopede | "install more". lol. exactly that |
| 20:14.06 | EdePopede | ram grows on trees, right? |
| 20:14.25 | SlidingHorn | EdePopede: no, you have to go download it :P |
| 20:14.38 | zeropoint | https://downloadmoreram.com/ |
| 20:14.46 | n4dir | if swap doesn't even get used, i fail to see how it improves anything. But what do i know |
| 20:14.59 | EdePopede | SlidingHorn: you're not even that far from it. remember ramdoubler? |
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| 20:15.05 | t3st3r | as for swap I recommend to GET RID OF THIS CRAP. Esp with 8+ GB RAM. And use ZRAM if you need somewhat more. For the sake of latency :D |
| 20:15.12 | joepublic | cool i am downloading that ram |
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| 20:15.35 | zeropoint | Read. https://chrisdown.name/2018/01/02/in-defence-of-swap.html Learn. |
| 20:15.56 | EdePopede | the webz is always right! |
| 20:16.03 | joepublic | t3st3r, "swap out infrequently used memory -> free up memory for cache+buffers = speed" |
| 20:16.18 | t3st3r | joepublic> that's why zram :) |
| 20:16.26 | EdePopede | i am sure there are also enough articles on "get enough ram, forget about swap" |
| 20:16.45 | t3st3r | so it would be compressed rarely accessed data... in ram. So when it needed it would still be accessed FAST. |
| 20:17.23 | joepublic | the kernel has 2:1 and 3:1 compressed memory pages now built in, not necessary to swap to a zram |
| 20:17.52 | t3st3r | joepublic> zram is a compressed ram block device, part of linux kernel. |
| 20:18.00 | t3st3r | it works exactly like you've told. |
| 20:18.24 | joepublic | t3st3r, I didn't say block device (which zram is) |
| 20:18.29 | t3st3r | so putting swap file on that one would do "compressed pages, 2 or 3 to 1" :) |
| 20:18.33 | zeropoint | Except it's entirely unnecessary. You're paging out compressed memory into a compressed block device in memory. |
| 20:18.37 | zeropoint | You're accomplishing nothing. |
| 20:19.02 | t3st3r | zeropoint> I acoomplish compressing infrequently used data :D |
| 20:19.19 | zeropoint | It was compressed to begin with. |
| 20:19.22 | joepublic | at one time, you had to instantiate a zram device and then swap to it. very ineffecient. Now the kernel compresses memory internally. Swapping that out to a compressed block device is just stupid. |
| 20:19.28 | zeropoint | t3st3r: How do you not understand this? |
| 20:19.48 | t3st3r | zeropoint> any proof on that? Do you understand decompressing page still takes plenty of time? |
| 20:19.59 | zeropoint | That's like gunzipping something, then gzipping it again and saying you're saving space. |
| 20:20.02 | t3st3r | in comparison to using direct access to RA< |
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| 20:20.26 | joepublic | your point of view is not wrong in an absolute sense, it's just "used to be a thing but completely wrong now." |
| 20:20.42 | t3st3r | zeropoint> RAM is not compressed by default for the sake of access speed. Turn on your brain. |
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| 20:21.17 | t3st3r | Unzipping and especially zipping 4K tales plenty of time compared to accessing it directly. |
| 20:21.18 | joepublic | I am going to guess that one of you has spent a lot more time in "make menuconfig" than the other. |
| 20:21.29 | joepublic | and I am going to guess that person's name starts with a z. |
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| 20:22.03 | t3st3r | joepublic> I'm using my own kernel, I've configured it myself. Does it rings a bell? |
| 20:22.17 | zeropoint | t3st3r: I'm going to point out that every modern OS uses compressed memory in some way or another. But hey, if you think insults are helping you, go for it. |
| 20:22.29 | zeropoint | *plonk* |
| 20:22.40 | joepublic | t3st3r, you seem to have missed compressed memory allocation, and you not only missed it, but you are positively crowing that it can't be there, on account of you missed it. |
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| 20:23.02 | t3st3r | zeropoint> I would ask for some proof of such a bold claims telling pages are compressed by default. I do not take such statements as granted. |
| 20:23.35 | joepublic | t3st3r, your being ignorant of kernel memory management and demanding others educate you is not doing your credibility any favors. |
| 20:23.36 | bettertester | Hello. I am trying to set up debian to boot to ram. I am following https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/blog/isaackuo-112178/ramboot-how-to-for-debian-8-jessie-37165/ |
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| 20:23.41 | bettertester | But when i try to boot i get VFS unable to mount root fs. |
| 20:23.55 | t3st3r | Just because I *do* lurk in kernel. There *is* some chance I've missed something, sure. But in this case name feature and give some proof? |
| 20:24.00 | bettertester | How could I go about debuging this? |
| 20:24.20 | unborn | thanks guys, I will go with 2gigs |
| 20:24.29 | joepublic | good choice unborn :) |
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| 20:25.05 | unborn | time to reboot and begun install :) later folks! |
| 20:25.06 | t3st3r | also I do think that swapping out RARELY USED pages to compressed storage is good. Frequently used is not. So described scenario sounds weird. |
| 20:25.15 | joepublic | t3st3r, perhaps this will help you (doubt it): https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18437205/difference-between-zram-and-zswap |
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| 20:26.14 | kanliot | i'm moving files around and want to install btrfs on a remote disk. would nbd or tgid with iSCSI be a better choice? TIA. |
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| 20:27.02 | EdePopede | swapping needs time. compressing needs time. there's no way around it. |
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| 20:28.20 | t3st3r | It needs time, sure. So it slower than RAM access. But much faster than using HDD to emulate RAM. |
| 20:28.27 | t3st3r | That's the whole point. |
| 20:28.34 | EdePopede | "it"? |
| 20:29.08 | t3st3r | Compressing and decompressing page(s). |
| 20:29.35 | EdePopede | ah, this. and where does this happen? in-place, no extra space needed? |
| 20:30.01 | klh | swap helps to be faster ? No swap is used on my computer until ram is not full so I don't understand and it's why I don't use it anymore |
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| 20:30.03 | t3st3r | most improtant HDDs have awful latency so fetching pages from HDD is slow like hell |
| 20:30.52 | t3st3r | so once that "rarely needed" page is needed - expect lag due to waiting on drive, especially if it busy. I like idea of compressed pages in RAM better than that. |
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| 20:31.59 | t3st3r | at least I got my desktop more or less free of stupid lag spikes, etc - and I like it this way. |
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| 20:33.18 | EdePopede | well let's see. htop shows about 50% ram used with some buffer space and the rest is cache. and yet swap usage is around 2/3 of my ram |
| 20:33.24 | t3st3r | Swapping to mechanic HDDs is surely one of top sources of lag spikes I know. Swapping to SSD is better but wears it out. |
| 20:33.55 | EdePopede | i did a swapoff last week, just to see how it would perform. took some time until the process returned. |
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| 20:35.10 | EdePopede | t3st3r: i know these. desktop switching is such a candidate. nearly could write down the text from the fullscreen terminal while it is repainted |
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| 20:35.39 | EdePopede | even if i alt-tab to the other xterm on that desktop it takes sometimes |
| 20:37.08 | t3st3r | linux can do a bit of swapping even without swapt files btw. |
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| 20:42.16 | EdePopede | ssd, heh. nice prices compared to hdd. |
| 20:42.32 | t3st3r | interestingly enough on that "in defence of swap files" page paragraphs 3 and 6 almost contradict each other. |
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| 20:43.27 | t3st3r | Carefully avoiding naming culprit directly: with swap file one can have unresponsive system FOR GODDAMN MINUTES before OOM kicks in |
| 20:44.15 | ryouma | hmm, now that firefox is using even more memory, i should consider zram or zwhatever. but i'd need a pretty straightforward tutorial if i did that. |
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| 20:45.18 | EdePopede | years ago i was using an extra profile for facebook. had 2 browsers open at the same time, even running a flash game in one tab. with 2GB RAM. |
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| 20:45.56 | ryouma | 4gb, must restart firefox frequently |
| 20:45.58 | t3st3r | having swap file enabled prolonges this agony a lot and facing it even once is very unpleasant experience. That swap lover guy fails to admit this openly though. |
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| 20:47.11 | EdePopede | usually it helps killing firefox, if i am able to switch to the screen tab running htop. maybe i should write a script which finds out what instance is running wild and then kills it. |
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| 20:49.12 | t3st3r | EdePopede> btw firefox got about:memory "url" to force it into garbage collection manually. May or may not help. |
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| 20:50.19 | EdePopede | OOM killer even ma killed hexchat while Fx was eating my memory |
| 20:51.12 | t3st3r | :D OOM killer could be a bit chaotic. It haves some tunables to prefer some processes over others. |
| 20:51.35 | EdePopede | t3st3r: been there before, no idea how to use it. and i can't even read what it wants to tell me thanks to my dark desktop |
| 20:52.15 | t3st3r | And that guy defending swaps on his page is right about one thing. Linux would use executable images on disk as source of pages. This can also cause slowdown. |
| 20:53.22 | t3st3r | as for firefox there was "minimize memory usage" button that forces FF to run garbage collection and reclaim some memory. |
| 20:53.49 | oiaohm | https://github.com/facebookincubator/oomd for oom issues this from facebook can be useful. |
| 20:54.24 | EdePopede | well i clicked it. aftter 1s or so it printed "Memory minimization completed". ah, this. was black on darkgrey. |
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| 20:55.38 | t3st3r | EdePopede> hmm it also good to check mem use before and after to see if that helped. Firefox is long known for leaking memory - and failing to reclaim it. |
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| 20:56.03 | t3st3r | should it happen only restart would help |
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| 21:11.42 | EdePopede | oiaohm: first i thought that was a solution for facebook's horrible ressource usage, but it is code *from* facebook. really, i won't let them hack around in my kernel. |
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| 21:19.26 | t3st3r | EdePopede> speaking for myself. I've disabled swap on HDD and use zram to swap instead. It as easy to manage as usual swap but causes less lags when OOM kill time comes in. |
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| 21:20.32 | t3st3r | Unfortunately getting rid of lags caused by HDD thrashing due to pages fetched from executables isn't as easy. The most reasonable cure is probably SSD for system :D |
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| 21:22.15 | kwriley87_ | Hello! I am running Debian 9 and just installed an Intel Gigabit CT Desktop NIC.. the OS sees the NIC when I do an ip a s but I cannot bring the interface up. I believe this is due to firmware not being present but I'm not sure where to get the required firmware file. Can anyone help me? |
| 21:22.41 | EdePopede | t3st3r: i may try to get an antique PC with the same type of RAM, or at least something that fits. having 8GB RAM may be better then 2GB and roundabout 5 for swap ;) |
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| 21:24.40 | noahmg123 | Ok, so I wanted color emojis, so I followed instructions here (https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/9q8dlj/how_to_better_enable_color_emojis/). I know it's for Arch, but it worked on Debian too. The emojis appear everywhere (that I can find) except for the Chrome omnibox and tab titles. Is there a way to make them appear there as well? |
| 21:26.26 | GumShoe | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:27.24 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: did you enable it? |
| 21:27.29 | GumShoe | I try journalctl -u mosquitto -b the end of the log is from nearly an hour ago of me messing around trying to start mosquitto with systemctl. No recent entries. This had been previously working. |
| 21:27.54 | GumShoe | Yes. I enabled it. I'll try again. |
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| 21:29.21 | GumShoe | May I paste five lines? |
| 21:30.01 | EdePopede | !paste |
| 21:30.01 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net or https://0bin.net/ | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 21:30.36 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: what does "systemctl status mosquitto.service" say? |
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| 21:31.41 | GumShoe | https://paste.debian.net/1066713/ |
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| 21:33.08 | GumShoe | https://paste.debian.net/1066714/ |
| 21:33.12 | t3st3r | EdePopede> I usually tend to keep no more than 25% of RAM for zram. It uses same tech of page compression like that cranky guy told - compressing rarely used pages 2 or 3 times. |
| 21:33.56 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: okay so systemd started the service successfully |
| 21:34.09 | t3st3r | also if one really low on RAM, getting rid of ram hogging programs/services/etc could be reasonable idea. |
| 21:34.25 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: if the server forks then systemd needs to know this. "active (exited)" means that the process systemd started terminated, but this is considered a successful start. |
| 21:34.36 | GumShoe | Woa @serajewlkS how ya doing? Remember me? Helped install raid 1 then you talked me into LVM :-) |
| 21:34.56 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: so, either the service is running fine, OR the service died and you need to dig into its service log files to figure out why it died |
| 21:35.00 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: indeed! |
| 21:35.32 | EdePopede | t3st3r: that would leave me 1.5G for normal usage. doesn't sound much ;) |
| 21:36.30 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: if the service did indeed die, _but_ systemd thinks that exiting mean the service started fine (e.g. it daemonized) then you have to "systemctl restart" to get systemd to try again. "systemctl start" is a no-op on a service that is running, and systemd thinks it's running. |
| 21:36.38 | SerajewelKS | so first you need to figure out if it _actually is_ running |
| 21:36.52 | GumShoe | if I use journalctl it shows that the log hasn't been touched in 45 minutes or more! :-( tried both lgs too, nothing new there. That's what this exercise is about. I did start it manually mosquitto -c mosquitto.conf and I get some log messages.. |
| 21:37.29 | SerajewelKS | not all services will hit the system log. some do their own thing. not saying this service does, but "nothing in journalctl" doesn't mean "is not logging somewhere" |
| 21:37.57 | GumShoe | it's not running ... ps -aux | grep mosquitto |
| 21:37.59 | t3st3r | EdePopede> well, I used like 300 to 500Mb on 2Gb system. Appeared reasonably to me and worked quite fine. |
| 21:38.27 | SerajewelKS | okay. then you need to dig into logs to figure out why it died. in the meantime, "systemctl restart mosquitto.service" should get it back up. |
| 21:38.38 | t3st3r | I could also suggest light DEs like XFCE and carefully checking what processes are running and why. |
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| 21:41.02 | GumShoe | Well I'll be a monkey's uncle! Never seen this before... the systemctl restart got it going |
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| 21:42.18 | EdePopede | t3st3r: hexchat <4%, X~7%. both running since login. and then firefox with *drumroll* 30%. and i didn't even activated most of the tabs (around 20) and use a whitelist policy with noscript. |
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| 21:43.18 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: you have to keep in mind that sysvinit is largely stateless, except for pidfiles. so when you told it to start a service it would go "is there a pidfile and does that pid exist? no? okay, let's start it." |
| 21:43.42 | GumShoe | Geeze more systemd stuff to learn. I uisually stop and start rather than reload. ... because in the olden days I used service sysv init... and it had nice color coding :-) |
| 21:43.58 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: systemd on the other hand has state for each service and knows when something is started. for some services, it's configured to consider the primary process terminating to be still running. e.g. this makes sense for a script that installs firewall rules. |
| 21:44.08 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: so asking it to start a service that it thinks is already started doesn't do anything |
| 21:44.41 | GumShoe | It might have the courtsey to inform me of that! |
| 21:45.17 | t3st3r | EdePopede> sounds pretty usual for Firefox :\ |
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| 21:46.41 | GumShoe | O.K. now I can get back to debugging this self signed certificate debuggin... I had it working with letsencrypt but letsencrypt can't sign a client certificate. |
| 21:46.51 | t3st3r | unfortunately chromium isn't better or something when it comes to memory. Realistically it safe to admit browsers turned into overgrown monsters that deserve diet. |
| 21:47.22 | forgon | The game Warzone 2100 has just been released in a new version. Who do I need to contact to spread this information so that its Debian package can be updated? |
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| 21:47.43 | GumShoe | Thanks once again for your assistance @SerajewelKS |
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| 21:54.11 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: np |
| 21:54.28 | EdePopede | t3st3r: sure, the need to support all the features of html5 and css3 (are we at 4 yet?) and media and implement half of the desktop tools. time to split up web browsers from webappfrontends. |
| 21:54.46 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: it might inform you of that with -v or something. systemd is designed to let you start multiple things at once. "systemd start a b c d e ..." |
| 21:55.02 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: if it reported "already running" for each service then you might get a flood of messages when you don't care |
| 21:55.30 | SerajewelKS | don't read "start" as "run service" but as "ensure service is running" |
| 21:55.55 | GumShoe | It could check if it's running from systemctl or systemd ??? |
| 21:56.21 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: that's what "systemctl status" will tell you |
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| 21:56.45 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: see this line of your paste: "Active: active (exited) since Sun 2019-02-10 13:15:47 MST; 1h 16min ago" |
| 21:57.03 | SerajewelKS | starting an active sevice is a no-op |
| 21:57.12 | GumShoe | Yea that explains why, if memory serves, I'd see the confusing to me message running (exited) |
| 21:57.25 | SerajewelKS | yep. this is what you get with a service where Type=Oneshot |
| 21:57.31 | SerajewelKS | so the service has the wrong type |
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| 21:58.00 | SerajewelKS | however, the service might actually be that type, but needs some other way for systemd to notice that it died |
| 21:58.06 | GumShoe | Where rr the installed .service files? |
| 21:58.36 | SerajewelKS | depends, it looks like this was a service generated by sysvinit compat, which means the start script is in /etc/init.d |
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| 21:59.03 | SerajewelKS | i don't recall if generated units actually exist on disk or if they're purely an in-memory entity within systemd |
| 21:59.17 | GumShoe | Yup, but there is a mosquitto.service wrapper around it |
| 21:59.29 | SerajewelKS | yes but that doesn't mean the service file is actually on disk somewhere |
| 21:59.54 | SerajewelKS | i don't know enough about how auto-generated units work to tell you that |
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| 22:00.04 | SerajewelKS | where did this service come from? a debian package? |
| 22:00.25 | SerajewelKS | because "service died and systemd doesn't notice" sounds like a bug against that package |
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| 22:03.11 | GumShoe | Doh! mosquitto systemd stuff installed by apt... I was thinking of when I had to write them myself. I'm not seeing mosquitto.service where I thought they would be. So does systemd make a service file on the fly from the old sysv init.d scripts ?? |
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| 22:03.48 | GumShoe | debian stretch |
| 22:03.50 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: there is a compat layer that generates a unit for stuff in /etc/init.d that isn't systemd-aware |
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| 22:04.12 | SerajewelKS | if the package didn't put anything in /etc/init.d by itself, then it probably has its own systemd unit file |
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| 22:05.25 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: system-provided service units typically go in /lib/systemd/system -- note that this is NOT where you should put your own custom unit files. those go under /etc/systemd/system |
| 22:05.55 | SerajewelKS | i don't know what would happen if there is both an init.d script and a unit file. one of them will presumably win, but i don't know which. |
| 22:07.18 | t3st3r | EdePopede> hmm yea, browsers grown to runtime environment. As for splitting... shht, there is electron already. So one app can take all your 2Gb RAM alone. |
| 22:07.24 | SerajewelKS | based on the status output, this unit was generated by the sysv compat layer (Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8)) |
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| 22:08.31 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: "dpkg -L" on the debian package name will show you what files are provided by the package. so i'd suggest running this: dpkg -L mosquitto | egrep 'systemd|init' |
| 22:08.53 | SerajewelKS | GumShoe: that will tell you what init-system stuff is provided by the package |
| 22:09.00 | GumShoe | I doubt I'll be forgetting this little session with systemctl... and the implications of the restart and the .pid file. As ussual @SerajewelKS are informative. I not only solve my problem but learn a bit too. I really like that!!!!! |
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| 22:09.44 | GumShoe | I just commented in /mqtt that there is a good discussion going on over here... |
| 22:10.03 | vfw | How is pulseaudio supposed to be started? |
| 22:10.36 | petn-randall | vfw: Your DE starts it with your user session. |
| 22:10.46 | GumShoe | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.46 | dpkg | ii mosquitto | grep servic returns 0 1.1-5 gumshoe's private warez collection |
| 22:10.55 | GumShoe | 0 aka nothing |
| 22:11.09 | vfw | oh... well, it seems like something's wrong with pulseaudio, I can not start it manually either. |
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| 22:12.15 | vfw | Actually, this is raspbery pi |
| 22:12.31 | rant | !raspbian |
| 22:12.31 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/ |
| 22:12.51 | EdePopede | t3st3r: heh yeah. had a short look at franz (electron based multimessenger). just *adding* one to the list needed more ram than hexchat after weeks of running :) |
| 22:12.53 | petn-randall | vfw: raspbian might be doing things differently. It's best you ask in their channel. ^^^ |
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| 22:14.59 | vfw | petn-randall: Ok, thanks... |
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| 22:55.40 | over7head | do i need initrd image in boot? |
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| 22:56.05 | over7head | seems i cant boot without it |
| 22:56.16 | over7head | on other distribution i was able to boot without |
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| 22:56.54 | petn-randall | over7head: What issue are you trying to solve? |
| 22:57.09 | petn-randall | over7head: You can't just delete system files and expect Debian to boot ... |
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| 22:57.45 | over7head | i compiled vanilla kernel and it cant boot, vfs unable to moutn root on block 0,0 |
| 22:58.00 | over7head | i removed original debian initrd image |
| 22:58.56 | petn-randall | over7head: If you built a kernel package the recommended way that should create a initrd for you. |
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| 22:59.30 | over7head | i checked my disk configuration and it seems ok |
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| 23:01.09 | over7head | i didnt build package |
| 23:01.15 | petn-randall | over7head: If you compile all needed modules into the kernel you could boot without initrd. |
| 23:01.31 | petn-randall | over7head: `make debpkg` is the build target that creates a .deb for you to install. |
| 23:01.48 | over7head | i didnt build kernel from repository |
| 23:01.56 | over7head | from kernel.org |
| 23:02.04 | petn-randall | Sorry, `make deb-pkg`. |
| 23:02.21 | petn-randall | Yes, I know. The upstream sources support that target. |
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| 23:02.34 | joepublic | when building from kernel.org, just ask nicely and it gives you debs. |
| 23:03.34 | over7head | i never do it like that, usually i build kernel and copy image to boot |
| 23:03.55 | joepublic | you must do what you feel is right, of course, but debs are pretty naturally suited to debian. |
| 23:04.00 | over7head | myabe i forgot some chipset config |
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| 23:06.36 | over7head | im not sure why it want acces modules direcotry when compiling |
| 23:07.06 | over7head | ERROR: could not open directory /lib/modules/4.20.7 no such file or directory |
| 23:07.30 | joepublic | in my experience, make deb-pkg and then sudo dpkg -i *.deb and then reboot and the new kernel is up and running. |
| 23:07.32 | over7head | it must create it itselfe when compiling ? |
| 23:08.10 | joepublic | so even if that's not the way you want to build, you might do it once and see what the resulting differences are, and then whatever that is, do that. |
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| 23:10.22 | over7head | joepublic ok i will try |
| 23:10.35 | over7head | but im sceptic how it will create modules directory |
| 23:10.45 | over7head | if it doesn want to create it now |
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| 23:18.10 | over7head | is there command to remove package without removing deps ? |
| 23:18.48 | over7head | last time i removed xorg-nvidia, xorg-ati, xorg-wacom and so.. it automatically removes me drivers for keyboard and etc |
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| 23:21.18 | over7head | i want remove uneeded xorg drivers but it will removes dri, mesa evdev.... if i go to install those, it will automatically install nvideia, ati and so |
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| 23:24.31 | pingfloyd | over7head: you have to remove the meta-package and manually install the packages |
| 23:25.49 | pingfloyd | you remove a dependency of the meta-package and it wants to remove the meta-package which in turns removes all the meta-package's dependencies. So if you manually install or mark as manual the package you want to keep, that should fix the dilemma. |
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| 23:26.41 | pingfloyd | other option is to just leave them all on. How tight is space? |
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| 23:29.02 | wonderworld | stupid win7 vm backing up windows update files ate a significant percentage of my diskspace |
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| 23:33.03 | pingfloyd | wonderworld: is your nick from this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P2mfLUSen4 |
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| 23:34.19 | wonderworld | haha no it isnt. lol. never saw this video. need to watch |
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| 23:36.19 | sammm | hey, I have built a metapackage of sorts which allows me to pull in a number of packages based on this metapackage's depends field, my issue is that I have multiple versions of packages in my repo, and if I want to install an older "metapackage", apt complains about unmet dependancies |
| 23:36.31 | sammm | what is the best / proper way to handle having multiple sets of packages |
| 23:36.39 | sammm | for easy upgrade / rollback of a suite |
| 23:36.43 | over7head | joepublic it insrtalled in boot both kernel and initrd, i go to try it now... |
| 23:36.51 | otmi | ls |
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| 23:52.57 | Deihmos | what is your favorite desktop environment? so many to chose from |
| 23:53.19 | seanicus | command line |
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| 23:55.15 | Deihmos | no one is going to use a command line as their daily driver |
| 23:55.31 | Deihmos | how do you surf the net from command line |
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| 23:56.54 | n4dir | lynx and such |
| 23:57.08 | joepublic | there are lots of systems that I interact with primarily by command line. |
| 23:57.22 | joepublic | I usually surf with curl (or sometimes wget for downloading files) |
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| 23:57.44 | pingfloyd | gimp must be an extra joy in CLI |
| 23:57.46 | n4dir | and you can't browse the web with a desktop environment either. You will need a web browser to do such |
| 23:57.53 | joepublic | pingfloyd, imagemagick. |
| 23:58.05 | pingfloyd | joepublic: you draw in imagemagick? |
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| 23:58.31 | L1nuxg33k | I primarily use command line. Links is pretty good. |
| 23:58.34 | joepublic | pingfloyd, drawing is done more by scripting imagemagick than "drawing in imagemagick" |
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| 23:59.37 | joepublic | i have a couple machines with xfce, but the CLI-only machines I have far outnumber them. |
| 23:59.56 | pingfloyd | you know that you don't have to pick one or the other |