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| 00:00.33 | rwp | LikWidChz, Looks good to me. Remember to "update-initramfs -u -k all" afterward. (Or dpkg-reconfigure linux-kernel-image-$version) |
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| 00:01.22 | LikWidChz | actually its bitching about a start job is running for dev-md0.device and gives me a 1 minute 30 second penalty wait. ill re edit and remove the E8500 additional line item then run that update command and try agains |
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| 00:04.05 | aloo_shu | systemhaveatea.. |
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| 00:07.42 | rwp | LikWidChz, I am not a systemhaveatea user (shrug) and therefore do not need to deal with those types of problems. |
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| 00:08.04 | LikWidChz | heh |
| 00:08.06 | rwp | But yes, only one UUID line per UUID please. |
| 00:08.18 | rwp | Duplicates will definitely cause error messages. |
| 00:08.21 | LikWidChz | you do raid much?? |
| 00:08.35 | LikWidChz | so thank you that all worked as expected. |
| 00:08.45 | rwp | All of my systems except for my laptops are using raid. Don't leave home without it. |
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| 00:09.11 | rwp | Except I do leave home with my laptops with out raid. But that joke doesn't work otherwise. :-) |
| 00:09.18 | LikWidChz | I guess when you have raid in a box like lots o drives and none of them have activity leds... how in the shit do you go about identifying which one is failed? without blinky leds? |
| 00:09.40 | LikWidChz | look at hdparm and the serial numbers? |
| 00:09.50 | rwp | use either 'hdparm -I /dev/sda' or 'smartctl -i /dev/sda' to identify the vendor and serial number of each drive. |
| 00:10.13 | rwp | It would be good to note that down ahead of time. Now would be a good time. And then the one you can't get to is the one that failed. |
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| 00:10.42 | rwp | Since software raid is not truly high availability then if you can't remember which one is where you can just shutdown everything, look at the serial numbers and figure it out. |
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| 00:10.59 | LikWidChz | yeah ... yeah, so like sharpie a serial number on the side of the drive type of thing... the manual process. |
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| 00:11.18 | rwp | If you know ahead of time though and you have the drives in a way to hotswap them then all SATA is hotswappable. Assuming your motherboard SATA controller supports it. Most newer ones do now. |
| 00:11.33 | LikWidChz | not sure why mfg's never put activity leds on the bottom of the sata controller. |
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| 00:11.41 | rwp | Or a sticker. Or something. The palest ink is better than the strongest memory. |
| 00:11.46 | LikWidChz | .0001 cents. HAHAH |
| 00:11.55 | LikWidChz | thats awesome. |
| 00:12.20 | rwp | You also know how to fail and remove devices from the mdadm raid? And how to tell the sata controller to delete the drive? |
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| 00:13.26 | rwp | After failing the drive out of the raid and removing it then you can "echo 1 > /sys/block/sdc/device/delete" to drop the device. Then pull it. Let it pause to spin down for a moment. Replace it. Then partition it. Then add it back into the raid and let it sync. |
| 00:13.37 | rwp | All hot while the machine is up. No problem. |
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| 00:13.50 | LikWidChz | I built a nas a couple years ago it had 5 1.5 tb drives and 4 750 gig drives, with gentoo.. I never did deal with a failure but in my experimenting I did unplug a drive manually and put it back |
| 00:13.58 | rwp | However while that is very good for us it is still not as nice as the fully automated compaq cciss smart array controllers. |
| 00:14.22 | rwp | Those you just look for red lights. Pull the red handle. Replace. Do nothing else and the automation will handle it all seamlessly. |
| 00:14.41 | LikWidChz | yeah the software raid is pretty neat |
| 00:15.04 | LikWidChz | but having something else deal with the bs of dropping and adding a drive via command line is also beneficial to know how to do it. |
| 00:15.05 | rwp | Definitely affordable for everyone these days. And the data on the disk is portable to any random system. |
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| 00:15.45 | LikWidChz | yeah one of my tests was to copy a bunch of crap to some old drives in a raid5 set, wipe the host machine and bring it back up with only having the data on the disks |
| 00:15.47 | rwp | With most raid controllers the on disk format is unique and not portable. If the raid controller fails then you must find an identical raid controller. Or restore from backup. |
| 00:16.02 | LikWidChz | yeah reasons why this software raid is great.. |
| 00:16.15 | rwp | Yes. With mdadm software raid the data is portable anywhere. |
| 00:16.25 | LikWidChz | again most people dont think about this until they have a data failure |
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| 00:16.43 | rwp | Probably the next step for raid after mdadm would be zfs. Since it handles raid in a completely different manor. |
| 00:16.57 | LikWidChz | one guy I was talking with said Oh I have a 4tb drive and I put all my photos on it and I take it places... I'm like cool what do you back it up too? he was like what do you mean...................... |
| 00:17.01 | LikWidChz | That is the backup. |
| 00:17.30 | rwp | And just to emphasize, RAID is NOT backup. |
| 00:17.35 | LikWidChz | heh |
| 00:17.51 | LikWidChz | well I mean if one drive fails, its a ticking time bomb to buy another disk yo! |
| 00:18.19 | LikWidChz | you could always do a raid50 set if you are baller. |
| 00:18.29 | rwp | Backup should always follow the 3 2 1 rules. 3 total copies of data. 2 different types of media. 1 offsite. |
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| 00:19.02 | LikWidChz | sure sure, home gamer vs business |
| 00:19.12 | Deihmos | People still do raid |
| 00:19.22 | LikWidChz | IM HURT! |
| 00:19.45 | LikWidChz | its like hotsauce on mexican food.. ya gotta have it. |
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| 00:20.42 | rwp | Due to the license issues that slowed adoption zfs suffered being used in the GNU/Linux world but I think we may be past the worst of it now. I know that when I finally get versed with it that I will wonder why I waited so long. |
| 00:21.02 | rwp | And then cephs is the latest rising star. I am sure I am going to think the same thing about it too. |
| 00:21.03 | LikWidChz | zfs as compared to ext4 ?? |
| 00:21.27 | rwp | zfs by itself would compare to ext4+lvm+mdadm |
| 00:22.05 | LikWidChz | well ive always used ext4 or 3 for my type on my nas... not sure why id need something else?? but I havent really looked on why I would need something else you know. |
| 00:22.08 | rwp | Since in zfs you give it physical devices and it sorts the redudancy out across the multiple devices. With checksums across the data blocks. |
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| 00:22.34 | rwp | Meaning that for long term archival of things like photos it will detect bit rot and recover from it. Our standard ext4 would not catch it. |
| 00:23.01 | rwp | But we are getting to hold such large amounts of data that even low probability failures become likely. |
| 00:23.03 | LikWidChz | is that what the DroboFS uses? |
| 00:23.15 | rwp | I had a really wierd single bit flip issue with a machine just this last month. |
| 00:23.27 | LikWidChz | its like you can just add on random bullshit drives and it sorts out how much actual space you have? |
| 00:23.39 | rwp | Drobo does something that only they know what it does. It does it's own raid. Probably very good but closed source so none of us know what it is internally. |
| 00:24.00 | LikWidChz | ahh someone should reverse that and figure it out heh |
| 00:24.02 | rwp | With zfs, yes, something like that. |
| 00:24.24 | LikWidChz | so technically are you saying that ZFS would be better than using raid 5? |
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| 00:24.40 | rwp | Yes. Someone here will be using it and may comment. It is still in my get to it eventaully bucket. |
| 00:24.52 | LikWidChz | ahh okay |
| 00:25.27 | rwp | And I am an advocate for raid6 over raid5. I have seen too many real world cases where a raid5 system *should* have been enough but failed and all was lost. |
| 00:25.35 | LikWidChz | I guess I never really asked, I dont deal with large amounts of harddrive space, so id imagine once you get over some specific amount using raid might be kinda dumb... like boxes with hundreds of TB |
| 00:25.51 | rwp | Because sibling drives bought together with serial numbers very close together running side by side will have coupled failures. |
| 00:26.07 | LikWidChz | I have a nas with 16tb inside a qnap... makes sense honestly, I never thought about that. |
| 00:26.21 | rwp | I have twice now seen two RAID1 mirrors at different times fail within a week of each other using identical sibling drives that were aging together. |
| 00:26.38 | LikWidChz | thats crazy! i had one drive fail after I took the data off it. |
| 00:26.38 | ksk | also stress will get higher on the remaining drives, if one fails. I vote for raid6 on big devices ;) |
| 00:26.42 | rwp | Much better to de-couple the failure modes and use unmatched drives. |
| 00:27.08 | LikWidChz | well you know when SSDs become more used.. |
| 00:27.14 | LikWidChz | and ugh cheaper for biggen storage |
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| 00:28.14 | LikWidChz | I always get a kick out of building a nas with some amount of storage space, then you have it so long a single disk comes out the same size as your entire nas. SAD. SAD. |
| 00:29.31 | rwp | It's kind'a funny though. For my own personal machine I will intentionally mix drives to avoid coupled failures. But an SLA with a vendor will often specify identical drives with identical firmware. Making coupled failures more often seen. However adding more redundancy again offsets that. |
| 00:29.36 | rwp | Basically for enough money anything can be made reliable. |
| 00:30.36 | LikWidChz | yeah, those wd black drives I remember those |
| 00:30.43 | LikWidChz | you pay more money for a color. |
| 00:30.46 | LikWidChz | whoot! |
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| 00:32.25 | oiaohm | LikWidChz: Like it or not there are controller and mechical differences between all the different wd drives. |
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| 00:32.40 | LikWidChz | Oh I know I was just being a jackass. |
| 00:33.05 | oiaohm | I wish it was just color not the word pro and not pro as well. |
| 00:33.13 | LikWidChz | I know those NAS drives ? red? were ones that had some specific firmware on them |
| 00:33.26 | oiaohm | red and red pro in wd. |
| 00:33.33 | oiaohm | red pro is the 7200 rpm ones. |
| 00:33.44 | oiaohm | red alone is the 5200 rpms ones. |
| 00:33.45 | LikWidChz | yeah I never did rtfm on how they were different. |
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| 00:34.19 | oiaohm | better virbation sensors on controller board leading to better vibration tollerance in the reds. |
| 00:34.46 | oiaohm | and the exterprise white(ultrastar) and old golds. |
| 00:35.30 | oiaohm | So noisy fans or multi drives causing vibrations the nas rated or better rated drives perform better. |
| 00:35.55 | oiaohm | LikWidChz: basically there is firmware and hardware differences. |
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| 00:37.05 | oiaohm | The blacks don't have the extra vibration sensors. |
| 00:37.07 | wald0 | where i can download the netinst for buster/testing ? |
| 00:37.26 | wald0 | seems like cdimage.debian.org doesn't works, at least in my connection |
| 00:38.00 | oiaohm | wald0: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ is where I was going to point you. |
| 00:38.21 | oiaohm | The stock images without firmware have trouble on lots of hardware working. |
| 00:38.28 | ksk | wald0: imho there is no install media for testing, there is just a "test verison of the installer" |
| 00:38.57 | ksk | you install stable and upgrade that to testing, if testing is what you want. |
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| 00:39.46 | wald0 | i think that the problem is in my dns... |
| 00:40.53 | LikWidChz | use pi-hole! its awesome |
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| 00:45.22 | wald0 | cdimage.debian.org seems like down, definitively |
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| 00:46.24 | SerajewelKS | wd red drives in particular are supposed to have a very low read timeout. whereas desktop drives will retry a bad sector for 30-60 seconds, trying to save your data, nas drives are supposed to return read errors within 5-10 seconds or so, under the assumption that they are in a RAID. |
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| 00:48.07 | SerajewelKS | e.g. if a sector is bad, we don't want to hold the whole system up trying to read it over and over, we'd rather use another disk in the RAID to repair the sector. on a desktop drive that's not mirrored, retrying the sector for a long time could eventually be successful and repair the sector. |
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| 00:49.54 | SerajewelKS | if the disk is in a redundant raid, an unreadable sector error will just trigger a repair on that sector without any issues. if the drive takes too long to respond to a command, however, the disk will be failed from the array. so a high read timeout can cause a disk to be unnecessarily failed, and then you might not have any redundancy at all. |
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| 00:52.43 | LikWidChz | heh shit 109mb a sec to nas |
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| 00:54.36 | LikWidChz | SerajewelKS, thanks for the info! I do have a 1.5tb drive that I fail to toss but it clicks and wondering if there are any tools I can use to attempt to even see what was on it? let alone get anything off. |
| 00:55.08 | SerajewelKS | LikWidChz: attaching it to a linux machine you should be able to poke at it unless it's totally dead |
| 00:55.19 | SerajewelKS | if it won't read at all you could try the freezer method |
| 00:55.31 | SerajewelKS | (which i've used successfully one time to recover my brother's hard drive) |
| 00:55.46 | LikWidChz | yeah it seems like ive tried that, are there any linux tools good for trying to list contents? |
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| 00:56.12 | SerajewelKS | everything you need is already there. fdisk to look at the partition table, mount (with -o ro) to try to mount filesystems. |
| 00:56.20 | LikWidChz | ive pulled power and quickly put it back thinking it would prevent additional spinup |
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| 00:56.34 | SerajewelKS | if you want to try to make an image, dd_rescue is a great tool |
| 00:56.44 | LikWidChz | ill have to try it again, yeah good idea. |
| 00:57.03 | SerajewelKS | the gddrescue package |
| 00:57.06 | SerajewelKS | ,v gddrescue |
| 00:57.07 | judd | Package: gddrescue on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.16-1; jessie: 1.19-1; stretch: 1.21-1; buster: 1.23-1; sid: 1.23-1 |
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| 00:57.53 | SerajewelKS | if only some sectors are bad, gddrescue will mirror the drive in an intelligent way to try to avoid agitating the disk until it has recovered what it can. for example, if there is surface damage, reading those damaged sectors can actually physically damage the read head. |
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| 00:58.31 | LikWidChz | yeah I had one drive where it got to a specific spot and then spazzed out on me |
| 00:58.36 | SerajewelKS | so ddrescue does strategies like: read from the start of the disk until a read error. then read from the end of the disk backwards until a read error. then skip chunks of the "void" in the middle to try to find all of the sections that cleanly read. |
| 00:58.41 | LikWidChz | so i tried to avoid said spazzed spot. |
| 00:58.51 | LikWidChz | thats pretty cool! |
| 00:58.58 | LikWidChz | someone smart wrote that app. |
| 00:58.59 | SerajewelKS | then, once it has all of the data it can cleanly get, it tries to go back and scrub the bad spots |
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| 00:59.19 | SerajewelKS | i've used it with great success on a bunch of really old floppies from the 80s - 90s |
| 00:59.25 | LikWidChz | ill hook it back up again and see what I get. thanks for the tool suggustions |
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| 00:59.38 | SerajewelKS | i want to say 25 or so had some read problems. ddrescue has totally recovered all but one. |
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| 01:00.05 | SerajewelKS | obviously, a good backup system is much better than having to use these tools |
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| 01:00.18 | SerajewelKS | but we all have those friends and family who don't listen |
| 01:00.35 | SerajewelKS | "i didn't want to spend $5 a month on a good backup service, can you spend three hours for free fixing my disk" |
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| 01:01.42 | SerajewelKS | i'll still do it but i've started giving them an invoice of what it would cost if i charged them, with a credit for the same value so it's $0. and i tell them it's free this one time, and i include a list of backup services i recommend that are all around $5/mo. |
| 01:02.16 | SerajewelKS | because people make mistakes. but they should also learn from them. |
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| 01:11.51 | Old_Dog | SerajewelKS: would you be willing to share with me that list, by any chance? |
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| 02:00.17 | gerforce | hello, I have a question about upgrading my software on Debian Jessie. Details: http://paste.debian.net/1067230/ |
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| 02:00.32 | SerajewelKS | Old_Dog: the primary one i recommend is backblaze personal backup, though unfortunately they don't have a linux client |
| 02:02.18 | SerajewelKS | Old_Dog: i also suggest carbonite or spideroak one |
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| 02:02.51 | Old_Dog | and they do work with linux? |
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| 02:05.30 | Old_Dog | it appears carbonite is "available for Windows and MacOS users" only. |
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| 02:12.36 | pvl1 | Im un able to understand why i cannot run individual commands from live-build. am i supposed to use a build script every change? |
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| 02:13.21 | Deihmos | When I setup the server I really should have separated the home folder |
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| 02:22.59 | pingfloyd | Deihmos: why? |
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| 02:55.47 | ryouma | SerajewelKS: interesting analysis. if aluminum foil was placed on a drive, and it no longer works (presumably because of a short circuit), is it pretty much a lost cause? does debian have tools for that? |
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| 02:59.10 | gerforce | sorry for repeating my question. I have a question about upgrading my software on Debian Jessie. Details: http://paste.debian.net/1067230/ |
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| 03:59.15 | gecko_x8 | Hi. What is the recommended official way to automatically run a binary at startup on stretch? i just need to run /usr/bin/lcdproc. lcdproc connects to the LCDd service, which i have enabled via systemctl, so lcdproc should run after the LCDd service. |
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| 04:09.02 | Deihmos | pingfloyd: in case i do a new install the home folder will remain in tact |
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| 04:12.43 | _m4ch1n3_ | <gecko_x8> adding line with executable path to /etc/rc.local is one way to execute on boot |
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| 04:14.30 | _m4ch1n3_ | but add it before "exit 0" line |
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| 04:16.33 | _m4ch1n3_ | but be aware it executes before you can login |
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| 04:17.36 | _m4ch1n3_ | adding stuff there could make your system ubootable |
| 04:17.41 | gecko_x8 | _m4ch1n3_ afaik rc.local is deprecated in stretch. i wanted to know the 'official' way to doit in stretch.. |
| 04:17.59 | gecko_x8 | i believe it'sdonevia systemctl |
| 04:18.08 | gecko_x8 | i believe it's done via systemctl |
| 04:18.21 | _m4ch1n3_ | well it still works on debian |
| 04:18.44 | _m4ch1n3_ | buster |
| 04:18.46 | gecko_x8 | ok |
| 04:18.51 | gecko_x8 | how about this |
| 04:18.52 | gecko_x8 | https://debian-administration.org/article/28/Making_scripts_run_at_boot_time_with_Debian |
| 04:19.40 | _m4ch1n3_ | i use it to exxecute intel_panel_fitter to fix overscan for an hdmitv thar lacks of this setting |
| 04:20.18 | _m4ch1n3_ | intel_panel_fitter |
| 04:20.40 | _m4ch1n3_ | fits pannel and returns instantly |
| 04:21.47 | _m4ch1n3_ | gecko_x8, do you need it before an user logs in? |
| 04:22.43 | gecko_x8 | _m4ch1n3_ sry,the link i posted was for how tomakea service.. Yes, it should start as soon as possible after theLCDd service has started |
| 04:23.01 | gecko_x8 | it's just thelcdproc client that outputs stats on a small LCD screen |
| 04:23.23 | gecko_x8 | sry, my spacebar i acting up |
| 04:24.24 | gecko_x8 | _m4ch1n3_ it'slooking likerc.local is the way i'm gonnago. Just wanted to make sure there isn't some new way of doing it. Thanks for help |
| 04:24.32 | gecko_x8 | damn spacebar |
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| 04:25.02 | _m4ch1n3_ | wait |
| 04:25.17 | _m4ch1n3_ | you have to exit 0 rc.local |
| 04:25.59 | gecko_x8 | ok..so /usr/bin/lcdproc |
| 04:26.00 | _m4ch1n3_ | if you start a client that not runs in background boot may stuck at this point |
| 04:26.03 | gecko_x8 | then exit 0 |
| 04:26.29 | _m4ch1n3_ | #assume client is ment to stay launched |
| 04:26.34 | gecko_x8 | yes |
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| 04:26.42 | gecko_x8 | it just runs then stays in background |
| 04:26.59 | gecko_x8 | if i run from command prompt it just runs and returns the prompt |
| 04:27.11 | _m4ch1n3_ | ah ok |
| 04:27.55 | gecko_x8 | don't worry i will google for examples still |
| 04:28.14 | gecko_x8 | just wanted to make sure of the correct way in stretch.. |
| 04:29.35 | _m4ch1n3_ | to be frank im not sure if this is the way how it should be done |
| 04:29.47 | _m4ch1n3_ | it works for my purpose |
| 04:30.17 | _m4ch1n3_ | if it stays up it would be nice to have an systemd service |
| 04:31.12 | _m4ch1n3_ | https://medium.com/@benmorel/creating-a-linux-service-with-systemd-611b5c8b91d6 |
| 04:31.28 | _m4ch1n3_ | that would be better |
| 04:31.43 | _m4ch1n3_ | you can start stop an service or get status |
| 04:31.59 | gecko_x8 | _m4ch1n3_, yeah, i guess i could make ot as a service, i posted a link to instructions.. the LCD server service already runs as a service though |
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| 04:32.28 | gecko_x8 | enabled via systemctl.. i'll figure it out |
| 04:33.00 | gecko_x8 | i have another annoying issue though.. i'm running a fresh minimal bootstrapped system (stretch running on ZFS root), and i can't do any scrolling with arrows or pgup/pgdwn. for example manpages i can only scroll down page at a time with space, same with journalctl etc.. how can i get scolling up and down to work in a bootstrapped system? |
| 04:34.58 | _m4ch1n3_ | try pgup pgdown or shift+pgup/down |
| 04:35.08 | gecko_x8 | no |
| 04:35.22 | gecko_x8 | i can't do any scrolling with arrows or pgup |
| 04:35.33 | gecko_x8 | only down page at a time with spacebar |
| 04:35.39 | gecko_x8 | nothing else works |
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| 04:35.58 | gecko_x8 | can't even scroll up in manpages |
| 04:36.04 | gecko_x8 | very annoying |
| 04:37.38 | gecko_x8 | but, i haven't googled this issue yet, just if someone happens to know the reason would be nice |
| 04:37.47 | gecko_x8 | i'll igure it out somehow |
| 04:37.52 | _m4ch1n3_ | :D |
| 04:37.59 | _m4ch1n3_ | youi can do it |
| 04:38.11 | gecko_x8 | sure |
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| 04:39.55 | gecko_x8 | _m4ch1n3_ that medium article is good, thx |
| 04:40.18 | gecko_x8 | i think i'll make it a service, and make it depend on theLCDd server as well |
| 04:40.31 | gecko_x8 | the right way to do it |
| 04:40.40 | gecko_x8 | like a professional expert :) |
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| 04:50.25 | _m4ch1n3_ | oh yes, failed to link to position https://medium.com/@benmorel/creating-a-linux-service-with-systemd-611b5c8b91d6#9d55 |
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| 04:51.08 | _m4ch1n3_ | you need to create only a config file for your service |
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| 04:51.41 | gecko_x8 | yea, gonna do that, thx |
| 04:51.56 | _m4ch1n3_ | systemctl enable/start/stop/disable/status yourservice |
| 04:52.05 | _m4ch1n3_ | to control it |
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| 04:56.27 | ArcherL | join #social |
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| 04:58.57 | _m4ch1n3_ | suffer from social phobia :/ |
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| 05:50.18 | leibniz | p |
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| 05:54.21 | introom | debian has version-ignorant `default-jdk' |
| 05:54.36 | introom | is there any package for the corresponding java source package? |
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| 05:55.05 | introom | i can only find package names with version number hardcoded in, such as `openjdk-11-source' |
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| 05:57.26 | gerforce | sorry for repeating my question. I have a question about upgrading my software on Debian Jessie. Details: http://paste.debian.net/1067230/ |
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| 06:06.01 | Tom-_ | no idea gerforce |
| 06:06.11 | gerforce | sorry for repeating my question. I have a question about upgrading my software on Debian Jessie. Details: | allorder |
| 06:06.28 | gerforce | my bad. |
| 06:06.33 | Tom-_ | can you try with apt-get ugrade instead of apt, and paste it? |
| 06:06.43 | gerforce | try to paste to another channel |
| 06:06.48 | Tom-_ | i mean paste it to paste.debian.net |
| 06:07.00 | gerforce | Tom-_: of course. |
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| 06:08.41 | gerforce | Tom-_: http://paste.debian.net/1067267/ |
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| 06:11.52 | gerforce | it seems to be caused by package procps |
| 06:12.24 | Tom-_ | yeah |
| 06:12.27 | Tom-_ | i don't speak systemd |
| 06:13.01 | Tom-_ | you can try running /var/lib/dpkg/info/procps.postinst line by line until it generates the systemd error message and then debug that |
| 06:13.13 | Tom-_ | ever do much debian system administrating before? |
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| 06:16.22 | gerforce | Tom-_: all right. I'll try. Thanks |
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| 06:17.05 | gerforce | quoting: "ever do much debian system administrating before?", Are you asking? |
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| 06:23.13 | rhizome | gerforce: try dist-upgrade |
| 06:23.34 | themill | gerforce: do the logs show any useful info there? (as the output suggests) |
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| 06:26.47 | themill | gerforce: is this some sort of container or do you have your own kernel? |
| 06:27.29 | gerforce | themill: i'll paste the result of 'journalctl -xn' |
| 06:27.44 | themill | I just saw them in your previous paste |
| 06:28.30 | gerforce | http://paste.debian.net/1067268/ |
| 06:28.31 | gerforce | ok |
| 06:29.40 | themill | What do you have in /etc/sysctl.d/ ? |
| 06:30.12 | gerforce | when i run /var/lib/dpkg/info/procps.postinst step by step, the error shows at 'invoke-rc.d procps start' |
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| 06:31.43 | gerforce | http://paste.debian.net/1067269/ |
| 06:32.25 | themill | any settings conntrack settings from either of those two files? |
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| 06:33.12 | themill | (I assume 30-tracker.conf.dpkg-new should be ignored, but ...) |
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| 06:36.46 | gerforce | themill: what do you mean? |
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| 06:39.26 | themill | grep conntrack /etc/sysctl.d/* |
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| 06:45.19 | Tom-_ | gerforce, I figured it would be invoke-rc.d , probably... i guess you could read the invoke-rc.d procps script yourself with strace or something and see what the systemd command line is |
| 06:45.22 | Tom-_ | i'm kind of systemd-useless |
| 06:45.34 | Tom-_ | maybe try a sane init program |
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| 06:47.30 | gerforce | themill: in file "99-sysctl.conf": net.netfilter.nf_conntrack_max=64000 net.nf_conntrack_max=64000 |
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| 06:47.59 | themill | systemd has nothing to do with this btw |
| 06:49.26 | themill | gerforce: so it can't apply that second one and that causes the upgrade of procps to fail. That looks like a setting for a much older kernel. Try commenting it out |
| 06:51.07 | gerforce | themill: this one : net.nf_conntrack_max=64000 |
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| 06:51.33 | themill | yeah |
| 06:54.01 | gerforce | bravo! |
| 06:54.24 | gerforce | problem solved :) |
| 06:54.53 | gerforce | i want to know why the second setting be there? |
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| 06:59.01 | Tom-_ | okay great, glad you figured it out :) |
| 06:59.16 | gerforce | thanks, Tom-_ |
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| 07:23.38 | themill | gerforce: I suspect that second setting was there from some very very old kernel. I have a dim recollection of needing to change these settings over few years back |
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| 07:35.45 | gerforce | themill: Your dim recollection helps then. :) |
| 07:35.56 | themill | tends to be quite dim |
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| 07:42.22 | Haohmaru | i'm following instructions to see if a bug in one program is located in the actual program itself, or between its gui toolkit (wxwidgets) and the window manager (openbox) .. so i was instructed to try to replace my wx3.0.2 with newer version from backports |
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| 07:43.52 | Haohmaru | in synaptic, when i attempt to uninstall libwx*** it asks me "mark additional required changes?" and lists programs that use libwx - the program in question, as well as a few other programs/packages that are related |
| 07:44.17 | Haohmaru | i can press "cancel" on this.. but i'm not sure if this is a path towards messing up my debian :/ |
| 07:44.35 | Haohmaru | ..halp |
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| 07:47.39 | Haohmaru | ,v libwxbase |
| 07:47.40 | judd | No package named 'libwxbase' was found in amd64. |
| 07:48.18 | Haohmaru | ,v libwxbase3.0-0v5 |
| 07:48.20 | judd | Package: libwxbase3.0-0v5 on amd64 -- stretch: 3.0.2+dfsg-4; stretch-backports: 3.0.4+dfsg-4~bpo9+1; buster: 3.0.4+dfsg-8; sid: 3.0.4+dfsg-8 |
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| 07:53.37 | Haohmaru | my uneducated nose tells me perhaps it's not dangerous to try that.. but.. :/ |
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| 07:54.21 | gerforce | I have upgraded my debian from jessie to stretch, why don't the kernel upgrade? |
| 07:55.10 | Haohmaru | gerforce maybe you've installed a specific kernel version package, instead of the "meta package" which changes its version |
| 07:55.42 | gerforce | this debian version was provided by my VPS vendor. |
| 07:55.55 | Haohmaru | no idea then |
| 07:55.55 | gerforce | using kernel version 2.6 |
| 07:56.04 | Haohmaru | wot.. that sounds ancient |
| 07:56.48 | apollo13 | gerforce: you might change your provider |
| 07:56.51 | apollo13 | wanna* |
| 07:56.59 | apollo13 | sounds like openvz or so? |
| 07:57.18 | gerforce | yes, i have installed the new kernel package "linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64". After rebooting, still 2.6 |
| 07:57.29 | apollo13 | what hypervisor? |
| 07:57.34 | gerforce | i didn't even see the kernel image under /boot |
| 07:57.44 | gerforce | My VPS |
| 07:57.46 | apollo13 | yeah it is supplied from the outside |
| 07:57.54 | gerforce | Bandswangon |
| 07:57.57 | apollo13 | yes which hypervisor is used to run your vps |
| 07:58.03 | apollo13 | that is no known hypervisor |
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| 07:59.27 | gerforce | according their website, the hypervisor is openvz |
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| 08:00.14 | apollo13 | yeah, drop them |
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| 08:00.27 | apollo13 | better yesterday than now |
| 08:01.20 | gerforce | any suggestion? |
| 08:01.35 | apollo13 | digital ocean is okay |
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| 08:02.40 | Haohmaru | any hints on my issue? |
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| 08:11.56 | jpmh | I recently upgraded from Ubuntu to Devian - should have done it years ago - I do not that rm seems A LOT SLOWER - is it zeroing the file before releaseng it? |
| 08:12.29 | apollo13 | this is the wrong channel for devian |
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| 08:13.13 | jpmh | I mean Debian - oops |
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| 08:14.58 | apollo13 | and not rm most likely does not zero anything |
| 08:15.11 | apollo13 | or rather doesn't do anything different between debian and ubuntu |
| 08:15.52 | apollo13 | maybe you have different trim settings but even that shouldn't make a diff imo |
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| 08:27.40 | jpmh | apollo13: thank you so much - and no difference in the trum settings - it is not a big deal at all - I ran into it only becasue after the upgarde I did a mass of deltions |
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| 08:29.32 | apollo13 | jpmh: you didn't literally upgrade via apt from debian to ubuntu, did you? |
| 08:31.08 | jpmh | apollo13: NO - I decided it was time to start again - scrubbed a new machine - installed debian and copied files and configuration |
| 08:31.14 | apollo13 | ok :) |
| 08:31.22 | jpmh | when I say upgrades I mean MY EXPERIENCE is ungraded |
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| 08:51.05 | Haohmaru | le bump? |
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| 09:16.21 | Haohmaru | okay, i figured it out.. |
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| 09:37.44 | spaceone | hey, i want to provide a transitional pacakge (remove a package). would i use Breaks or Conflicts here? |
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| 09:47.12 | jelly | spaceone: https://wiki.debian.org/PackageTransition sounds like case #12 ? |
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| 09:49.38 | spaceone | jelly: yes, looks like it |
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| 10:16.10 | ntz | hello |
| 10:17.02 | ntz | how do I with apt queary package by file ? aka `yum provides \*bin/foo' ? |
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| 10:22.54 | jelly | !apt-file |
| 10:22.54 | dpkg | apt-file is a utility used to find which package owns a given file - or list files in a package - even if it is not installed: "aptitude install apt-file && apt-file update" ; then "apt-file search filename" to see a list of packages containing filename (can also use a regular expression; see man apt-file). You can also search online, ask me about <pdo>. See also <judd-file>, <auto-apt>, <dlocate>. |
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| 10:23.25 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone, where do i find the file libopenssl.so ? i can't find it with apt-file search ... |
| 10:23.26 | jelly | ntz: or /msg judd file bin/ls |
| 10:24.05 | jelly | rocketmagnet: why do you need it? |
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| 10:24.17 | rocketmagnet | for python3.7 compilattion |
| 10:24.51 | rocketmagnet | it seems like it's not available for stable |
| 10:24.58 | rocketmagnet | only for sid ? |
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| 10:28.13 | jelly | rocketmagnet: first, add deb-src lines to your sourceslist and run apt-get update. Then run "apt-get build-dep python3.5" and that will install all the development things that Debian used to build python 3. |
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| 10:29.47 | ntz | jelly: lovely ... thanks (however apt-file ain't installed here) :D |
| 10:29.55 | ntz | easy, going to install it |
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| 10:41.11 | rocketmagnet | jelly: thx |
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| 10:42.50 | rocketmagnet | jelly: how can i search for build-dep packages ? |
| 10:44.29 | themill | rocketmagnet: installing a locally rebuilt python3.7 package is unlikely to be as helpful as you'd like. What are you trying to achieve? |
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| 10:45.18 | rocketmagnet | compiile vim with python3 support, it somehow doesn't work, i pass all the argument, he find the lib files but the static one |
| 10:46.28 | themill | vim already has python3 support |
| 10:47.26 | rocketmagnet | and i want gvim also, but he doesn't look for X and i'm still searching why |
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| 10:48.14 | themill | ,i vim-gtk3 |
| 10:48.16 | judd | Package vim-gtk3 (editors, extra) in stretch/amd64: Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with GTK3 GUI. Version: 2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u1; Size: 1234.3k; Installed: 2972k; Homepage: http://www.vim.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/vim-gtk3 |
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| 10:50.10 | rocketmagnet | how to search for build-dep packages ? |
| 10:51.10 | themill | this isn't going to further your goal of getting python support in vim; apt-cache showsrc $packge. |
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| 10:56.29 | rocketmagnet | themill: i just want to know it for the future |
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| 13:00.02 | mattfury | tell me whats new in debian 9.7.2 ?????? |
| 13:00.17 | mattfury | !whatsnew |
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| 13:01.34 | rafalcpp | what happened to enigmail in thunderbrid? it works? |
| 13:01.58 | themill | mattfury: I know of no Debian 9.7.2. All 9.x are just a point releases with some fixed packages |
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| 13:03.20 | mattfury | themill: what did you "fix" or "break" |
| 13:03.25 | mattfury | :P |
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| 13:03.45 | themill | mattfury: https://www.debian.org/security/ |
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| 13:04.38 | mattfury | just wondering did SSL get the ditch because all my connections on windows are now TLS? |
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| 13:05.06 | mattfury | i thought RSA-2048 was "unbreakable" with the elliptic curve |
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| 13:05.53 | mattfury | quantum botnet crackers? :( |
| 13:06.31 | mattfury | mmmm i would like some cracked pepper crackers atm. |
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| 13:06.59 | mattfury | *might* get gouldstones tho :/ |
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| 13:07.49 | Ooze | Can anyone tell me what's wrong w/ my font in the left side terminal? They're supposed to be the same, but some characters aren't rendering properly. I've already removed the no-bitmaps file. https://incorrigible.me/u/screenFetch-2019-02-12_07-41-12.png |
| 13:08.19 | mattfury | ha.ck.ers .org |
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| 13:09.11 | mattfury | my favourite smoke at the moment is white ox, a dark blended tobacco. |
| 13:09.20 | mattfury | very dark nice smokes |
| 13:09.30 | mattfury | almost like cigar smoke |
| 13:10.12 | abrotman | mattfury: Do you need help wtih Debian? |
| 13:10.58 | mattfury | im waiting on my download |
| 13:11.00 | themill | mattfury: that's more than enough, thanks |
| 13:11.03 | mattfury | 1 min to go |
| 13:11.29 | mattfury | also does debian have touch screen support? |
| 13:11.41 | mattfury | i have an amd64 pc wit touchscreen. |
| 13:12.21 | abrotman | Yes, though your question is vague |
| 13:12.31 | abrotman | So, good luck |
| 13:13.25 | mattfury | what do i use to image the image to usb ? |
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| 13:13.31 | mattfury | unetbootin or ? |
| 13:13.33 | abrotman | dpkg: tell mattfury about ig |
| 13:13.38 | mattfury | i dont have linux so no dd |
| 13:13.41 | Ooze | Is there a difference between urxvt and rxvt? |
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| 13:14.11 | abrotman | dpkg: tell mattfury about usb install |
| 13:14.35 | themill | mattfury: good thing that the docs don't tell you to use dd then |
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| 13:16.35 | Old_Dog | mattfury: Rufus used to be very good I haven't used it in a year or so, though |
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| 13:20.50 | mattfury | im using unetbootin if i have any issues will tell you.... |
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| 14:02.26 | lupus | Am I the only one who's getting timeouts from ftp.dk.debian.org (130.225.254.116) happens both on my default gateway and VPN |
| 14:02.47 | lupus | Can't upgrade my Debian box atm |
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| 14:04.48 | Rico | hello |
| 14:04.54 | Rico | can anybody help me with that please ? http://fpaste.scsys.co.uk/583083 |
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| 14:07.13 | ksk | Rico: not really my field, but: do you have actual problems with that fileysystem? |
| 14:07.30 | Rico | ksk: yes, I hade a crash on this host |
| 14:07.54 | ksk | yeah, and after that crash, why did you choose to run fsck? |
| 14:08.28 | ksk | "Superblock needs_recovery flag is clear, but journal has data." it interpret that as "linux would not have automaticly repaired this" |
| 14:08.33 | ksk | s/it/I |
| 14:08.54 | Rico | ksk: yes I did |
| 14:09.17 | Rico | Superblock needs_recovery flag is clear |
| 14:09.31 | Rico | doesn't that mean that fsck does not need to be run ? |
| 14:10.20 | ksk | thats how I would interpret it - but also the tool says that things are in the journal - which is like a combination that does not add up (to me, after all..) |
| 14:10.36 | ksk | have you tried mounting it? |
| 14:10.43 | Rico | http://fpaste.scsys.co.uk/583084 |
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| 14:10.59 | Rico | ksk: I tried |
| 14:11.23 | Rico | ksk: "can't read superblock" when mounting |
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| 14:12.00 | ksk | ah okay. AFAIK (again, im not an expert on that field..) you are foobared if the superblock is gone |
| 14:12.18 | ksk | iirc there were backups of the superblock on other areas of a disk stored, but how to use them I dont know |
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| 14:13.05 | Rico | ksk: just tried that without success |
| 14:13.08 | Rico | https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1245536 |
| 14:14.04 | ksk | careful when "trying" things with filesystems, you can easily purge all the data that still might be there. |
| 14:14.15 | Rico | yes :( |
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| 14:15.54 | Rico | I have a backup |
| 14:16.00 | Rico | but I want to undeerstand what is wrong |
| 14:16.03 | ksk | thats good ;) |
| 14:16.13 | ksk | why did you answer "no" to mke2fs? |
| 14:16.29 | ksk | it would show you where the superblock backups are (so I think, reading stuff on the webz) |
| 14:16.45 | ksk | https://linuxexpresso.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/repair-a-broken-ext4-superblock-in-ubuntu/ - sounds useful to me |
| 14:17.11 | ksk | *meke2fs -n of course, please dont create a new filesystem there^ |
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| 14:19.20 | ksk | not sure why superblocks "disappear" in the first place, because you are not going to write them "that often" so to say. might be a hardware problem then? |
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| 14:35.55 | Hypfer | Hi all. Any opinions on legacy vs uefi boot? |
| 14:36.07 | apollo13 | uefi! |
| 14:36.23 | FinalX | uefi; though it is quite different |
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| 14:37.14 | Hypfer | please elaborate |
| 14:37.49 | apollo13 | on what? |
| 14:38.08 | Hypfer | the only time I came in contact with uefi booting was when it broke a windows installation |
| 14:38.18 | Hypfer | apollo13 pros for uefi booting |
| 14:38.24 | apollo13 | did you read up on the differences of uefi vs bios? |
| 14:38.41 | apollo13 | if not, please do so first -- not really useful if we quote wikipedia to you |
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| 14:39.34 | Hypfer | there are none that I'm aware of apart from booting from disks > 2tb in size |
| 14:40.04 | Hypfer | thats why I was asking because I wondered if there are some important reasons to consider uefi booting which I hadn't heard yet |
| 14:40.22 | apollo13 | afaik that comes from gpt already |
| 14:40.26 | apollo13 | not uefi |
| 14:40.37 | apollo13 | well uefi is way faster to boot usually |
| 14:40.44 | apollo13 | also secureboot if you want it |
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| 14:41.40 | Hypfer | i see |
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| 14:43.09 | BotaniCar | If anything i'd rather not advertise secure bot as feature. More in line of nessesery evil |
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| 14:46.40 | apollo13 | BotaniCar: *shrug* if you do not use any special drivers it does not hurt either and is another layer of protection |
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| 14:47.25 | nemo | apollo13: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/149761/how-much-speed-difference-for-a-tweaked-bios-versus-uefi-boot doesn't look that significant |
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| 14:47.51 | nemo | apollo13: hardly seems worth the extra complexity, attack vectors, broken implementations, or that one notorious rm -rf oops hard locking your system |
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| 14:53.21 | apollo13 | nemo: to be fair that depends quite a bit on the bios vendors |
| 14:54.25 | nemo | apollo13: well if my system boots up in 9s vs 13s I'm neither going to know nor care |
| 14:54.38 | nemo | I'm not a speed tweaker. I never obsessed over boot charts either |
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| 14:55.03 | nemo | apollo13: esp since the laptop I tend to just suspend and the desktop I leave running so kids/hedgewars dev team can connect to the minecraft world |
| 14:55.46 | apollo13 | nemo: well I just answered about possible benefits, whether or not someone cares about the speed win is for them to decide |
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| 14:56.50 | nemo | apollo13: yeah, well that thread seems to suggest there's not much of one, if any ⺠|
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| 14:57.07 | nemo | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:57.08 | nemo | In other words the variation in linux kernel + ubuntu boot process is within a 0.539 seconds range, and has an average value of 5.233 seconds. |
| 14:57.30 | nemo | for BIOS. Variation is 0.665 seconds and average is 5.219 seconds for UEFI |
| 14:57.32 | apollo13 | nemo: I have varying results to be honest. I've seen bios taking 10 seconds while just switching the machine over to uefi resulted in 2 seconds |
| 14:57.35 | nemo | so basically in realm of noise |
| 14:57.41 | nemo | apollo13: windows or linux? |
| 14:57.47 | apollo13 | multiboot machines |
| 14:57.56 | nemo | apollo13: m'k well constraining to debian situation here ⺠|
| 14:58.06 | nemo | apollo13: maybe it helps w/ windows. windows boot is all effed up anyway |
| 14:58.11 | nemo | and MS is also invested in EFI |
| 14:58.32 | nemo | and as noted in thread, rewriting code in MS might explain most of the win |
| 14:59.08 | apollo13 | nemo: with multiboot I ment that I have been seeing better results on linux as well as windows on the same machines (at least for some machines) |
| 14:59.34 | Hypfer | yeah multiboot seems to be the best thing about efi |
| 15:00.02 | apollo13 | nemo: also one of the biggest wins: finally a windows update usually no longer overrides the mbr :D |
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| 15:01.54 | nemo | apollo13: yeah dunno. Frankly while I technically have multiboot windows machines, the windows partition is just kept around in case I need it someday and is as small as possible |
| 15:01.55 | skipshooter | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:02.13 | nemo | apollo13: haven't had any compelling reason to switch to windows partition in like a decade |
| 15:02.30 | nemo | too much of a hassle as it is, and if I do, saving 5 seconds on boot is not gonna be the main concern ⺠|
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| 15:03.20 | nemo | apollo13: EFI boot partitions kinda seem like just another hassle and malware target to me, just something I have to put up with if it's what the computer is setup for |
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| 15:04.37 | apollo13 | nemo: well it's not like mbr malware does not exist :þ |
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| 15:05.33 | nemo | apollo13: obv not, it's just a lot easier to fit in an EFI multigig partition ð |
| 15:05.44 | nemo | and the general tangle of EFI in general |
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| 15:05.51 | nemo | and a lot easier to clean up an MBR ⺠|
| 15:06.27 | nemo | apollo13: then there was that fun rm -rf systemd thingy from last year... although hopefully that at least has changed |
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| 16:11.44 | ldrago1604 | hi.. |
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| 16:12.37 | ldrago1604 | I am new on hexcaht |
| 16:12.58 | ldrago1604 | can you help me |
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| 16:15.58 | EdePopede | Ask and Thou Shalt Receive an Answar :) |
| 16:16.14 | EdePopede | answer of course.... |
| 16:16.40 | phazon | !ask > ldrago1604 |
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| 16:20.02 | p47r30n | yeah |
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| 16:23.43 | stochastix | Hi, where can I get the install ISO for 9.6 ? |
| 16:24.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1585] by debhelper |
| 16:24.12 | stochastix | cant seem to find the old ones on the site |
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| 16:24.28 | greycat | !netinst |
| 16:24.29 | dpkg | netinst is, like, a small CD image with which you can install Debian. If, during the installation process you have a working Internet connection, you can install more packages straight away, otherwise, you will have a base install and more packages later. See http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ See also <various cd1>, <check iso image>, <dialup install>, <usb install>, <installer>. |
| 16:24.44 | greycat | You do not want an old one. That would be stupendously pointless. |
| 16:25.01 | stochastix | No, I need 9.6 |
| 16:25.03 | phazon | stochastix: 9.7 is the same as 9.6 but it patched for vulnerabilities against apt |
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| 16:25.18 | greycat | The installation process WILL UPGRADE YOU TO the current point-release by downloading patches during the installation. |
| 16:25.20 | stochastix | There is a problem we have to troubleshoot |
| 16:25.41 | greycat | Using an old image just means you download more packages during installation. |
| 16:25.48 | phazon | it is the same installer |
| 16:25.57 | stochastix | nevermind, found it |
| 16:26.19 | greycat | So, nothing we say is making any impact on you or affecting your aberrant behavior in any way whatsoever. *plonk* |
| 16:26.42 | greycat | Why do such people even bother COMING to a support channel... |
| 16:26.57 | stochastix | No, im listening to you. I dont fully understand what you are saying yet, but not ignoring you. |
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| 16:27.17 | joepublic | It changes the dialog from "I just guessed and messed around" to "After talking to the support channel, I did the following things" |
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| 16:27.25 | stochastix | I was trying to find it for another person who is going to install it. They found it and are downloading it. |
| 16:27.25 | joepublic | Very important step. |
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| 16:27.40 | stochastix | I personally am interested in what you are talking about though. |
| 16:27.52 | phazon | stochastix: use the 9.7 release because it is the exact same installer; only difference is apt being patched for vulnerabilities |
| 16:27.54 | joepublic | see? "asking for a friend" - "someone who isn't me" |
| 16:27.57 | phazon | https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20190123 |
| 16:28.17 | stochastix | greycat: if you install off of 9.6, will it not use the old repositories? |
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| 16:28.37 | stochastix | greycat: or, it is the same repos you are saying? |
| 16:28.38 | joepublic | there are not "old" and "new" repositories. There is only "the repository" |
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| 16:29.29 | stochastix | I see, the repos are attached to the major release |
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| 16:29.47 | stochastix | 9.6 is stretch, 9.7 is still stretch |
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| 16:30.25 | phazon | yup, it is only a point release (and the reason for that is debian's bureaucracy) |
| 16:30.31 | stochastix | I see, sorry for being dumb, I actually knew that if I wasnt in such a hurry |
| 16:31.13 | stochastix | greycat: Thank you, my apologies |
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| 16:33.25 | stochastix | It was also a little bit of looking at what im typing, and not seeing what you already typed before I hit enter. Wasnt trying to be aberrant. |
| 16:33.35 | u1Conduct17 | how can I do it? |
| 16:34.06 | greycat | Do what? |
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| 16:35.42 | u1Conduct17 | greycat, I want to talk about Vim.Can I talk about it here or I should move to #vim? |
| 16:36.15 | joepublic | You would not be convicted in a court of law of talking about vim. So far you are talking about the questioning process. :) |
| 16:36.18 | greycat | You can ask questions about it here, and someone may know. If you get into *detailed* vim questions beyond what we know, then #vim would be a better choice. |
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| 16:37.33 | u1Conduct17 | I use Vim and I want to delete some word in all my text. How can I do it? |
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| 16:37.54 | greycat | :%s/some word//g |
| 16:37.56 | n4dir | %s/word//g ; or like that |
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| 16:39.57 | greycat | : to enter "ex" mode (a command line at the bottom of the screen), % to apply to all lines, s for substitute, / as the delimiter between old and new, the pattern you want to search for (a regular expression, I forget which kind), another slash, the thing you want to replace it with, a third slash, and finally g to apply the substitution to all matches on a line, instead of only one match per line |
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| 16:43.28 | joepublic | for some reason I almost always do that with sed and temporary file. vi clearly looks easier. |
| 16:43.35 | joepublic | (m) |
| 16:43.58 | greycat | ex and sed share quite a lot of syntax, so if you learn one, you've already learned quite a bit of the other |
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| 16:44.46 | joepublic | sed this > foo; cp foo this; rm foo ... wait, I bet I can insert cat into two of those steps |
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| 16:45.40 | u1Conduct17 | I want dont change to other word. I want just delete some word in all my text |
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| 16:46.17 | wr | made a debian vm wanna upgrade to latest sid, it's just change repos? wiki link? |
| 16:46.34 | joepublic | so, clearly you didn't try the %s that was suggested. |
| 16:46.40 | n4dir | /word// the part between the second / and the third / is empty, so you will replace it with "nothing", u1Conduct17 |
| 16:46.40 | greycat | that's why the space between the second and third slashes is empty. |
| 16:46.49 | greycat | you're replacing with the empty string |
| 16:46.57 | wr | joepublic, use vim |
| 16:47.19 | joepublic | wr, change the word "stable" "stretch" "testing "buster" whatever to the word "sid" and then sudo apt update; sudo apt upgrade; sudo apt dist-upgrade |
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| 16:48.14 | wr | joepublic, in that case its more or less what had in mind, any wiki link? |
| 16:48.38 | n4dir | you will have to remove most lines in the sources list too, besides the main one. joepublic |
| 16:48.47 | greycat | !unstable |
| 16:48.47 | dpkg | Unstable is the status of a Debian release when packages can be added at any time, that can disrupt the integrity of the whole system! Ask me about <break>. If you have to ask whether you should use it or how, you shouldn't. http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/ http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable . See also <testing>, <sid>, <sid faq>, <apt-listbugs>, <apt-listchanges>, <bts>. |
| 16:48.54 | joepublic | n4dir, good point. no sid-updates, etc. |
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| 16:49.19 | n4dir | one of the reasons i prefered sid over testing, more easy sources.list :-) |
| 16:49.22 | wr | joepublic, i read here i had first to upgrade to unstable then sid |
| 16:49.34 | joepublic | wr, sid = unstable |
| 16:49.50 | joepublic | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable?action=show&redirect=DebianSid#How_do_I_install_Unstable.3F |
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| 16:50.00 | wr | joepublic, i think i mean testing, i always switch this |
| 16:50.04 | n4dir | it probably makes sense to upgrade first to testing if you run stable, and then go to unstable/sid wr |
| 16:50.47 | joepublic | yes, the wiki page says "(If you've currently got an installation of stable, then you should upgrade to testing first and then to unstable.) " |
| 16:50.53 | wr | n4dir, yes its that one i read, fisrt testing then unstable, i dont know why i never tested this, but today i did a VM so it's all in |
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| 16:51.27 | joepublic | Though testing and unstable are 90+% identical, there could be something in that <= 10% that makes the difference |
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| 16:52.11 | wr | joepublic, thats why they have two names ;) |
| 16:52.23 | n4dir | during the freeze there might be more differences, until the "hard freeze" (when everything falls asleep ...) |
| 16:53.26 | n4dir | quite some prefer a mixed testing/unstable, as you can pick packages from sid, if you need to, else have got the stability testing can offer. I can't fully explain it. |
| 16:53.59 | u1Conduct17 | How can I delete some word in my text with the space? |
| 16:54.10 | greycat | include the space between the slashes |
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| 16:54.33 | wr | would be nice update on https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList with testing and sid on example list |
| 16:54.56 | jhutchins_wk | wr: No. |
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| 16:55.00 | greycat | Or is the space not *always* present? If you need to, you can use regular expression syntax to say things like "and all of the following spaces". |
| 16:55.07 | jhutchins_wk | wr: If you need that, you shouldn't be running testing or sid. |
| 16:55.08 | wr | jhutchins_wk, reason? |
| 16:55.09 | jmcnaught | wr: the thing is that testing and unstable are not intended for end users, they're unfinished development branches |
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| 16:55.22 | u1Conduct17 | I do include the space between the slashes and I get 2 spaces in my text |
| 16:55.30 | wr | jmcnaught, ok then, maybe in another wiki link |
| 16:56.02 | jhutchins_wk | wr: No, seriously, if you need to be told how to get packages from testing or sid, you should not be running packages from testing or sid. |
| 16:56.03 | jmcnaught | wr: there are wiki pages linked in the testing/unstable channel which is probably where you want to be: #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
| 16:56.07 | wr | jhutchins_wk, jmcnaught maybe another developers link |
| 16:56.20 | ksk | wr: but why? you just replace a releasename with another. Everyone that has legit reasons to run these flavours will know how to do that :p |
| 16:56.42 | wr | jhutchins_wk, jmcnaught it's just to easy on copy paste, but i will make a note for me |
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| 16:57.29 | jhutchins_wk | wr: Testing is exactly what it says it is, testing the package blend for the next release. It is intended to break occasionally, and to remain broken until a sound fix is found. |
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| 16:57.57 | wr | jhutchins_wk, thats why now i'm gonna export the vm |
| 16:58.00 | jhutchins_wk | wr: Sid/unstable is not a release, it is a repository that processes packages on their way to testing. |
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| 16:58.16 | jhutchins_wk | wr: Niether branch receives prompt security updates. |
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| 16:58.38 | u1Conduct17 | greycat, I got it! I have did: :%s/some word //g |
| 16:58.53 | wr | jhutchins_wk, soon they will i guess, isn't debian 10 out in a while |
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| 17:00.21 | u1Conduct17 | greycat, thank you. |
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| 17:04.29 | jhutchins_wk | wr: We don't want to encourage people who don't understand Debian and think testing is just the shiney new version. |
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| 17:05.19 | n4dir | he already stated a few times he is testing testing in a vm. i fail to see what might be wrong with that. |
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| 17:07.38 | wr | jhutchins_wk, off course, but they can test in virtual environment |
| 17:07.48 | ksk | he might not be wrong. It might just be wrong though to make the testing/sid sources list copy&paste -able in the wiki |
| 17:08.24 | ksk | inbefore: putting the sources list on a wiki, but use some sort of "you cannot copy-paste"-javascript :x |
| 17:08.26 | wr | ksk, for me would be useful in case of a vm test |
| 17:08.56 | ksk | wr: you are on irc, ask dpkg instead ;) |
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| 17:09.33 | wr | jhutchins_wk, ksk in this case i'm running this virtually so if anything goes wrong it won't because i made copy of a copy to import/export |
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| 17:09.59 | ksk | I am totally not arguing about your usecase. |
| 17:10.03 | wr | !sid |
| 17:10.03 | dpkg | well, sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!! |
| 17:10.14 | wr | !testing |
| 17:10.14 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <buster>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <jessie->stretch> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
| 17:10.25 | wr | !irc |
| 17:10.27 | dpkg | IRC is Internet Relay Chat, the means to provide #debian to its patrons. Debian IRC channels are listed at http://wiki.debian.org/IRC . Please read http://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc . Ask me about <irc tutorial> and <faq>. See also <debstats> and <irclog>. |
| 17:10.36 | jhutchins_wk | wr: We see people trying to run testing as their daily use desktop, and we try to discourage that. |
| 17:10.36 | wr | !dpkg |
| 17:10.37 | dpkg | somebody said dpkg was the program used by Debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <reference>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>. |
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| 17:10.55 | wr | this dpkg knows it all i have to talk on him |
| 17:10.59 | n4dir | wr: you can do: /msg dpkg <factoid> |
| 17:11.26 | wr | forgot those ones |
| 17:11.29 | jhutchins_wk | If peopple understand the apt/dpkg system well enough to get themselves out of trouble from running testing, they shouldn't need to copy/paste to run testing. |
| 17:11.46 | jhutchins_wk | wr: That's the reasoning as far as I can tell. |
| 17:11.56 | wr | jhutchins_wk, in that case i'm gonna look at this |
| 17:12.05 | n4dir | i guess it still is a good idea to go to #debian-next . in #debian you get the (correct) answers bout testing/unstable not being what most think it is |
| 17:12.22 | jhutchins_wk | wr: containers or dual-boot are good ways to run testing, with a fallback of stable for daily use. |
| 17:12.55 | n4dir | the package apt-listbugs may help too. Also a good backup solution. |
| 17:13.10 | ksk | ++ for apt-listbugs |
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| 17:19.39 | wr | by default should i use apt or apt-get on updating? and backports or not? |
| 17:20.47 | greycat | there are no backports for testing/unstable |
| 17:21.07 | wr | greycat, on other lower |
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| 17:21.30 | wr | greycat, on stable |
| 17:21.36 | n4dir | use backports packages when you need them, else not. |
| 17:22.02 | wr | n4dir, its just like to patch when i need a program |
| 17:22.51 | n4dir | probably yes, like that. You need a higher version of package xyz, you pick it from backports, assuming it is to find there. But, my point: |
| 17:23.02 | wr | n4dir, but happens when i use backports and dependencies of stable, will they mix? |
| 17:23.10 | n4dir | don't install each and every package you can find in backports, wether you need the higher version or not |
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| 17:23.22 | hiya | anyone here used mailcrypt with dovecot? It doesn't work for me. Esp. when I pop emails from server. |
| 17:23.32 | n4dir | yes, in general backports is troublefree, it all gets sorted by magic |
| 17:24.10 | n4dir | if a package in backports has a dependency not to be found in stable, you will have it in the backports repo too. |
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| 17:24.39 | wr | n4dir, when i use backports on sources and update to me seems the dependencies make system bit different, am i wrong? |
| 17:25.46 | n4dir | it can make it different, but it will still work, just like when you only have stable. |
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| 17:26.00 | n4dir | at least i never heard of anyone running in problems when using backports. |
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| 17:26.46 | n4dir | still i for one would only, and really only, install the packages i desperately need from backport, not everything which comes to my mind |
| 17:26.50 | wr | n4dir, running backports ok, but dependencies i don't know ..... |
| 17:27.34 | joepublic | there is nothing magic about "dependencies" - packages are packages. "dependency" packages are not somehow not regular packages. |
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| 17:30.47 | wr | joepublic, for example, i install program gimp on stable and then if i have on sources list a line with backports and update and next i install program libreoffice, will dependencies of stable and backports mix if gimp and libreoffice use some packages similar or that depend of one another? |
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| 17:31.28 | n4dir | it will work. |
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| 17:31.52 | joepublic | packages from backports have lower priority than packages from stable. So, they only are installed if you specifically ask for them, or if a package you specifically ask for requires them to be installed. Otherwise your packages will be installed and upgraded only from stable. |
| 17:32.13 | jhutchins_wk | wr: We trust that any backported dependencies will not break regular, stable package dependencies. Differences between stable and backport packages should be small enough that other stable packages can still use them. |
| 17:32.18 | n4dir | if the biggest concern is the highest version for all kinds of apps, then debian probably isn't the right choice. |
| 17:32.34 | wr | joepublic, there is also question of updates of stable and backports, if i should only do one or can do both with no issues, i always had that doubt, by my experience it works, but one time or another when i have lots of programs thinks may get weird |
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| 17:33.03 | jhutchins_wk | wr: Ideally, dependencies should require "equal or greater than", and the libraries should be backwards compatible. |
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| 17:33.30 | jhutchins_wk | wr: It shouldn't be like Windows where developers take advantage of known bugs and their software breaks if the bug is fixed. |
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| 17:33.44 | joepublic | wr, it's pretty easy to mess up your apt configuration if you mess with it in inventive ways. If you have just stable and backports sources, however, it's very difficult to mess it up. |
| 17:33.50 | wr | n4dir, for me it fits, it ain't so on last versions but..... |
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| 17:34.18 | joepublic | what aint so on last versions of what? |
| 17:34.26 | wr | joepublic, till now been running for 5 years, but on some last times noticed things |
| 17:34.40 | n4dir | i see. i tried to say: nothing wrong with always wanting the latest and greatest, but debian sure ain't the best distro for that approach. It's strenghts are others. |
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| 17:35.19 | joepublic | I have noticed some unspecified things too. |
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| 17:35.39 | wr | joepublic, some distros have versions up |
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| 17:35.56 | n4dir | "who the bloody hell cares for debian" is a nice speach, which sums up what makes debian debian |
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| 17:36.10 | joepublic | versions of what? up where? what the heck are you talking about? |
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| 17:36.39 | wr | n4dir, i'm not looking for lastest and greatest most of the time, but i may have an issue that i may need that |
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| 17:36.58 | joepublic | I just realized my previous statement might be interpreted to imply that I care about its answer, and so I retract it. Thank you. |
| 17:37.08 | n4dir | wr: i got you. i was just chatting in general |
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| 17:37.44 | wr | joepublic, once when i did debian install i had version of xfce like 4.10 lower than on other distros with 4.12 |
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| 17:38.28 | n4dir | once? i think that happens all the time. |
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| 17:38.48 | wr | n4dir, i understand the way debian tests stuff so... |
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| 17:39.24 | n4dir | tests stuff, releases the next stable, and then it stays the way it is for years. |
| 17:39.43 | wr | n4dir, it takes a while |
| 17:39.55 | wr | thats why its called stable lol |
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| 17:40.45 | n4dir | not bad info: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing.html |
| 17:40.52 | r4co0n | n4dir, that is a promise. Running software for other people, I know I don't have to change my application/website/whatever because the os interface stays stable. If I want new packages, I use backports. |
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| 17:41.37 | kre10s | Hi! |
| 17:41.49 | r4co0n | n4dir, or I am running testing, as I do on my workstation, switching approximately 6 months after stable release. |
| 17:42.08 | n4dir | yup. |
| 17:42.47 | r4co0n | Then you kinda have Ubuntu without all its quirks ;P |
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| 17:43.59 | kre10s | What does none mean as the first column in the output of the mount command? I have "none on / type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=31197940k)" but also "tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)" why is the one none and the other tmpfs? |
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| 17:45.57 | wr | jhutchins_wk, did change in fact this is easy, don't know why never tried it |
| 17:46.21 | r4co0n | kre10s, you mean like 'none on /media/mymountpoint type none â¦" |
| 17:46.56 | SerajewelKS | is there any way to run gpg2 without the amazingly incompetent agent process? |
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| 17:48.17 | kre10s | r4co0n: like "none on ..." vs "tmpfs on ...." |
| 17:48.31 | r4co0n | kre10s, for me the first of the space-separated values is a filesystem-type or the origin of a lvm/snap/etc. mount, e.g. the thing that is being mounted. |
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| 17:50.01 | r4co0n | kre10s, I mostly got lines like "proc on /proc type proc (rw,â¦)" |
| 17:51.24 | SerajewelKS | i seem to be entirely unable to get gpg 2 to do anything remotely reasonable regarding the agent and pinentry. it will regularly prompt in the wrong location (my remote workstation instead of the local terminal), not prompt at all, or give some ioctl error. |
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| 17:51.51 | SerajewelKS | i just want this shit to work and it's honestly ridiculous that there doesn't appear to be a sane configuration that allows gpg to actually work all of the time |
| 17:51.57 | jhutchins_wk | SerajewelKS: You begin to understand why it hasn't been more widely adopted. |
| 17:52.13 | r4co0n | kre10s, do you mind to share the whole line that is confusing you? |
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| 17:53.25 | SerajewelKS | jhutchins_wk: i audibly laughed when i read the advice to put "export GPG_TTY=$(tty)" in ~/.bashrc |
| 17:53.29 | kre10s | "none on / type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=31197940k)" |
| 17:53.35 | kre10s | Why is it none and not tmpfs |
| 17:53.55 | SerajewelKS | kre10s: "none" is the source device and it doesn't matter for tmpfs |
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| 17:54.23 | kre10s | then why is it not none in "tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)" ? |
| 17:54.46 | kre10s | ... why is it not also ... |
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| 17:55.02 | SerajewelKS | kre10s: again, it doesn't matter |
| 17:55.32 | SerajewelKS | kre10s: "mount foobar /tmp/baz -t tmpfs" will give you "foobar on /tmp/baz type tmpfs" |
| 17:56.27 | SerajewelKS | as far as "why" then the answer is probably "two different people wrote the config/scripts that mount those filesystems" |
| 17:56.59 | SerajewelKS | for the meaningless and inconsequential source device, one person put "none" and the other put "tmpfs" |
| 17:57.30 | r4co0n | Thanks, SerajewelKS, so the source is just a name because of the nature of tmpfs. |
| 17:57.48 | EdePopede | though "none on $where" sounds much like "there's nothing to be seen here. please go away." |
| 17:57.50 | kre10s | oh. |
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| 17:58.11 | EdePopede | is the user "nobody" still a thing? |
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| 17:59.18 | EdePopede | i remember reading not to use this user simply because it may be misleading |
| 17:59.57 | dasj19 | hello #debian, I am stuck within the debian installer (graphical mode this time) ... I can't seem to get over "Installed discover (amd64)"... is there a way to skip the step or get to see /var/log/syslog and get what is wrong |
| 18:00.00 | kre10s | it is misleading! |
| 18:00.09 | SerajewelKS | r4co0n: correct, most filesystems have a source device. e.g. ext4 needs some backing block device. but tmpfs is purely a transient, in-memory filesystem so it doesn't need any device because it doesn't persist. |
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| 18:01.06 | petn-randall | dasj19: One of the terminals has syslog output on the installer, try switching through them with ctrl+alt+F1 to F6. I think it's F4. |
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| 18:01.29 | dasj19 | I'm using the latest dvd iso flashed on a usb thumb drive.. I had issues wth other iso's as well all of them having the latest version |
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| 18:02.20 | dasj19 | pent-randall: thanks... but it is not responsive to the TTY hotkeys |
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| 18:03.02 | dasj19 | petn-randall: so nothing happens when I press those key combos |
| 18:03.25 | dasj19 | any other way to get to a terminal? or skip the damned install step? |
| 18:03.54 | r4co0n | SerajewelKS, regarding your gpg2 struggle: Have you looked at gpgme and it's implementations in various scripting languages? That's what I found some days ago after finding Ansible doesn't support GPG private key management natively. I still have to continue this work... |
| 18:04.11 | r4co0n | s/it's/its/ |
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| 18:08.04 | OerHeks | Job for systemd-sysctl.service failed. See 'systemctl status systemd-sysctl.service' and 'journalctl -xn' for details./clear |
| 18:08.10 | OerHeks | oops |
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| 18:10.02 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Why would using the backported kernel 4.19 (instead of 4.9) suddenly make multi-screen support work? |
| 18:11.03 | r4co0n | Aurora_iz_kosmos, because of new and improved drivers and therefore device support? |
| 18:11.06 | apollo13 | because new kernel includes new drivers? |
| 18:11.56 | dasj19 | so I guess there is no way to skip a step within debian installer using some key combo? |
| 18:12.46 | r4co0n | dasj19, you can use a preseed file to skip all of the installation questions or the ones you want skipped. |
| 18:12.50 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | r4co0n: apollo13: I see. So not only firmware-xyz packages include drivers. |
| 18:12.53 | rwp | dasj19, What step do you want to skip? You can use the Advanced install option to select your own path through the installation. |
| 18:13.04 | apollo13 | Aurora_iz_kosmos: firmware-* does not include drivers at all |
| 18:13.08 | mutante | dasj19: eh, i guess you can always hit "Cancel" in installer step and go back to the list of steps |
| 18:13.23 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | apollo13: Ah. My bad. |
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| 18:13.33 | apollo13 | Aurora_iz_kosmos: like the name says, firmware includes firmware, the drivers are part of the kernel and maybe extra driver packages |
| 18:13.51 | dasj19 | mutante ... the thing is that it is stuck at a step and there is no way of cancelling it |
| 18:14.25 | mutante | dasj19: Ctrl + Alt + F-keys to get to a shell .. i think |
| 18:14.37 | zleap | yes |
| 18:14.38 | r4co0n | dasj19, if you view the install log with Ctrl+Alt+F2, what's the last messages |
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| 18:14.51 | dasj19 | mutante: unfortunatelly that does not work either |
| 18:14.59 | dasj19 | r4co0n: I'll try that |
| 18:15.00 | mutante | Ctrl + c ? |
| 18:15.01 | greycat | I think F2 is the shell, and F4 is the log. But try 'em all. |
| 18:15.23 | r4co0n | Last time I did it, F2 was the logs, but well... |
| 18:15.29 | nemo | Aurora_iz_kosmos: I'm still waiting on a backport kernel to fix my touchpad â¹ |
| 18:15.34 | r4co0n | It was like 4 weeks ago with stable... |
| 18:15.35 | dasj19 | :( none of that works |
| 18:15.37 | rwp | dasj19, What step is it stuck at? |
| 18:15.45 | nemo | Aurora_iz_kosmos: for now I'm forcefitting the unstable kernel into stable, and undoing it every time I need to update |
| 18:15.51 | r4co0n | dasj19, I suspect the system is frozen |
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| 18:15.56 | mutante | starts to sound like hardware fail |
| 18:15.58 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | nemo: Ouch, that sounds annoying. |
| 18:15.58 | nemo | it's been like a year and a half now |
| 18:16.02 | dasj19 | rwp: selectinon and installing of applications |
| 18:16.04 | nemo | so yes. quite annoying ð |
| 18:16.22 | rwp | aka tasksel |
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| 18:16.34 | nemo | Aurora_iz_kosmos: turning on a single flag, you'd think that'dve made it into backports by now, but noooo |
| 18:16.39 | dasj19 | rwp: the last installed application is "discover" |
| 18:16.42 | rwp | That is the step where it sends aptitude off to install the software that has been selected. |
| 18:16.50 | mutante | dasj19: oh, just dont use any tasksel at all and select packages you actually want later after base install is done.. would do that anyways |
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| 18:17.35 | dasj19 | mutante: good point... so I can do that in expert install only... right? |
| 18:17.40 | rwp | discover is probably doing hardware probes? Not sure what it does at install time. |
| 18:18.25 | r4co0n | dasj19, only ever run expert install, last time I checked it is normal install with many more questions, so there is no difference if you only hit Enter. |
| 18:18.35 | mutante | dasj19: it should be enough if in the installer step where it asks you to select software you uncheck all boxes |
| 18:18.48 | mutante | what r4co0n said |
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| 18:20.04 | dasj19 | okay guys... thanks for assistance rwp, mutante r4co0n, petn-randall ... I'll kill the install via reboot button and start over... the annoying thing is that I have tried several times and got stuck at the same place.. |
| 18:20.25 | Aurora_iz_kosmos | Well anyway, thanks. |
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| 18:20.33 | rwp | dasj19, It could be something "intersting" in the curse sense of the word about your hardware. |
| 18:20.41 | mutante | dasj19: it sounds like it gets stuck trying to detect hardware.. this should be rare. maybe it is because some hardware is faulty |
| 18:21.03 | rwp | dasj19, I suggest running tasksel without any boxes checked. If that fails then try booting the live-cd image and verify that a live-cd image boots on your hardware. |
| 18:21.21 | mutante | using expert install and not installing any software should give you at least more clues |
| 18:21.25 | rwp | dasj19, If that fails then try the latest backports kernel installation image designed for people needing the latest kernel for their hardware. |
| 18:21.51 | dasj19 | mutante: i don't think something is really faulty because I went on to the recovery mode and manually installed gnome and added users and debian worked.. |
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| 18:22.27 | rwp | You can reboot and then rejoin and use rescue mode to finish things off. |
| 18:22.29 | mutante | dasj19: ok. one way to debug could also be to remove some hardware and re-add it after an install |
| 18:22.32 | dasj19 | rwp: good point... I'll try the live cd before trying yet another install |
| 18:22.46 | r4co0n | dasj19, what is the system like you are installing Debian on? I think you didn't tell us... |
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| 18:23.26 | dork | anyone here patch runc on jessie as a result? |
| 18:23.30 | rwp | If you have a new motherboard design with new components it (unfortunately) isn't unusual to see older kernels and drivers not work with it. However it is unusual to see hangs from it. Usually it is just not working stuff. |
| 18:23.32 | dork | of the latest CVE |
| 18:23.33 | dasj19 | it's a cheap ideapad100 .. I just ran trhough hell (windows) upgrading it's BIOS to the latest version |
| 18:23.52 | dasj19 | I thought an updated bios would help |
| 18:23.57 | dasj19 | but it doesnt |
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| 18:25.06 | mutante | any additional PCI cards or disk drives or things attached to it? |
| 18:25.18 | rwp | I would definitely try a live-cd boot. If that works you can always do a debootstrap installation using it too. Manual. But works well. |
| 18:25.47 | dasj19 | rwp: that's what I'm doing.. downloading the live-dvd torrent and then flashing it to a usb |
| 18:25.57 | dasj19 | thanks a lot for the tip |
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| 18:26.04 | rwp | That small form laptop does look pretty cool. A nice little machine in a light weight form factor quite inexpensive. I hope you get it going! |
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| 18:27.30 | mutante | oh look, always google "Debian on $model name" https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Lenovo/100S-11IBY/jessie this is an Ideapad100 ..with jessie at least |
| 18:27.33 | rwp | I think you may need a very recent kernel however. To get that you might need https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/ and the installer from https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ in order to get the most recent kernel. |
| 18:28.08 | mutante | " {i} Notebook sometimes freezes." |
| 18:28.11 | rwp | Oh good recource mutante |
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| 18:28.49 | dasj19 | mutante ... mine is the 15 inch model ideapad100-15IBY |
| 18:29.23 | dasj19 | I'll look at the link you provided mutante ... thanks for the tip |
| 18:29.40 | mutante | dasj19: i would hope they are the same except the size of the display |
| 18:29.54 | mutante | the model number seems to imply it at least |
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| 18:30.40 | mutante | dasj19: the "start page" of this is https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn it's called "Debian on" |
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| 18:31.10 | mutante | you might want to consider adding stuff. it's a wiki :) |
| 18:31.14 | dasj19 | okay.. from what I get from that wiki mutante provided... it seems like it freezes because the wifi adapter and touchpad? |
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| 18:31.51 | mutante | maybe the software install step freezes because it cant get online because the wifi doesnt work |
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| 18:31.56 | mutante | but i would expect a time-out |
| 18:32.09 | dasj19 | good resource .. I'll add my machines to that wiki in the future |
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| 18:32.39 | dasj19 | mutante: I can confirm that apt could get online and download packages |
| 18:32.40 | mutante | dasj19: nice :) |
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| 18:33.00 | wwilliam | hello why is /etc/ld.so.preload can potentially damage my system? |
| 18:33.07 | mutante | dasj19: ok..hmm.. well.. good luck with the live cd |
| 18:33.08 | dasj19 | via wifi I mean.. I also tried cable connection |
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| 18:34.35 | greycat | wwilliam: same reason /boot/vmlinuz-* or /boot/initrd.img-* or /etc/profile or countless other files can "damage your system" if you screw with them. |
| 18:34.45 | greycat | Because they're important. |
| 18:36.59 | wwilliam | Thanks greycat |
| 18:38.27 | Ooze | What the heck is wrong w/ my font in rxvt? https://incorrigible.me/u/screenFetch-2019-02-12_07-41-12.png |
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| 18:47.11 | somiaj | Ooze: 404 on that link |
| 18:50.11 | dasj19 | running the live cd now... crossing fingers |
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| 18:51.01 | dasj19 | it opened gnome just fine |
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| 18:51.43 | rwp | dasj19, I have my fingers crossed for you. |
| 18:52.20 | dasj19 | rwp: so it launched gnome just fine... I'm checking jorunalctl right now |
| 18:53.06 | dasj19 | I can see this so far: ACPI [Firmware Bug] BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored |
| 18:53.22 | dasj19 | Idk how relevant that is... |
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| 18:54.17 | dasj19 | another bolded entry "debian kernel: VFS: Disk quotas dquot_6.6.0" |
| 18:54.18 | somiaj | not all firmware implements ACPI correctly, and the kernel can often be verbose that is the case, but it might not be an actual issue |
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| 18:55.22 | dasj19 | another bolded entry: "pci 0000:00:1d.0: EHCI: BIOS handoff failed (BIOS bug?) 01010001" |
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| 18:56.40 | dasj19 | there are alos a few red entries... |
| 18:56.52 | dasj19 | one of them is complaining about wifi firmware |
| 18:57.09 | dasj19 | and another about intel_soc_dts_thermal |
| 18:57.26 | somiaj | The kernel is very verbose, you should probably narrow down what isn't working like you want it to (sounds like your system is freezing) as opposed to looking at all messages in the kernel log. |
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| 18:57.42 | somiaj | Most of the time those are just warnings and the kernel is correctly dealing with them. |
| 18:58.56 | t3st3r | somiaj> actually, most bios/uefi/acpi vendors do not care about |
| 18:59.01 | t3st3r | Linux |
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| 18:59.13 | dasj19 | somiaj .. ok.. how about this one: INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU |
| 18:59.19 | dasj19 | that one is red |
| 18:59.49 | t3st3r | that one sounds like some odd and considerable problem |
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| 19:07.42 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.7 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 19:08.41 | somiaj | I'm unsure what that tool is, but often times these .iso writting tools mangle the installer to break in strange ways. Follow the install guide and just use 'cp debian.iso /dev/sdX' where /dev/sdX is the usb drive you want to copy it to (note copy it to the drive, not a partition) |
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| 19:09.39 | oiaohm | somiaj: dd is normally the command recommended not cp. |
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| 19:09.50 | somiaj | oiaohm: cp is the recommended way, did you read the install guide? |
| 19:10.14 | oiaohm | somiaj: dd is block device aware. cp is not. |
| 19:10.18 | jken | Hello, I am trying to install linux-image-amd64 from stretch backports, but it has a dependency that does not seem to exist. |
| 19:10.19 | greycat | cp is recommended just because it's simpler to use |
| 19:10.23 | jken | dep: linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 19:10.25 | jken | Package not available |
| 19:10.27 | jken | https://packages.debian.org/stretch-backports/linux-image-amd64 |
| 19:10.35 | greycat | they both do precisely the same thing, if you don't screw up |
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| 19:10.38 | somiaj | oiaohm: cp has saner defaults than dd and works just fine (plus more know the syntax), yes dd will work, but cp is what the install guide recommends. |
| 19:10.41 | jken | Was able to install this package last week, and have been for a few months as part of an image building / provisioning tool |
| 19:11.01 | oiaohm | somiaj: I have had cp fail were dd works. |
| 19:11.11 | somiaj | oiaohm: https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch04s03.html.en |
| 19:11.15 | oiaohm | somiaj: becaise dd sends extra block things to sync out. |
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| 19:11.32 | somiaj | oiaohm: cp works just fine. |
| 19:11.44 | dasj19 | somiaj: thanks for the tip .. but I think I will try to install from the live cd first and see if I succeed |
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| 19:11.50 | somiaj | ,kernels |
| 19:11.51 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-2-686-pae (4.19.16-1); buster: 4.19.0-2-686-pae (4.19.16-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.19.12-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy- |
| 19:11.52 | judd | backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1) |
| 19:12.09 | oiaohm | somiaj: on different brand flash drives I can tell you it don't. |
| 19:12.15 | dork | is anyone familiar with the recent runc CVE (CVE-2019-5736) and is on jessie? |
| 19:12.30 | somiaj | jken: do you have stretch-backports in your sources.list? |
| 19:12.58 | jken | somiaj, yes I do. I even see the debian package site listed is as "package not available" |
| 19:12.59 | jken | https://packages.debian.org/stretch-backports/linux-image-amd64 |
| 19:13.04 | dasj19 | somiaj: btw... the last thing in dpkg.log is: status half-configured initramfs-tools:all 0.130 ... so I guess that is where the installation stopped |
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| 19:13.33 | somiaj | dork: have you checked the debian security tracker for that CVE and any info there (including relevant bug reports) |
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| 19:14.04 | somiaj | dasj19: try to copy the .iso to the usb drive using cp as recommended in the install guide, it could be that the gnome tool you are using is not doing a direct copy and causing a problem with your installer. |
| 19:14.28 | somiaj | oiaohm: there issue is probably something other than cp vs dd. |
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| 19:15.05 | oiaohm | somiaj: there is a difference in how often dd and cp do the sync directive. |
| 19:15.21 | oiaohm | somiaj: and they does come important on some media. |
| 19:15.30 | oiaohm | somiaj: they/that |
| 19:15.42 | somiaj | which is why the installer says run 'sync' afterwards, and yes you can configure dd's block write size, for the most part this isn't needed, hence why I and the install guide suggest cp |
| 19:16.19 | oiaohm | somiaj: yes block size that cp uses is also issue on some media its bigger than the dd default. |
| 19:16.26 | somiaj | jken: you could try to see if the package is at snapshot.debian.org and manually download it, maybe there is a transition updating the kernel avaialbe in stretch-backports. |
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| 19:17.42 | jken | awesome. |
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| 19:18.56 | jken | somiaj, http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64/ |
| 19:19.01 | jken | does not appear to be in snapshots. |
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| 19:20.13 | jhutchins_wk | I believe some people have found cp to be faster than default dd. |
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| 19:20.47 | somiaj | in most cases that will be the choice, dd's default block size isn't optimized for modern hardware |
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| 19:20.54 | somiaj | s/choice/case/ |
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| 19:21.16 | jmcnaught | I use pv to copy ISOs to USB, it shows progress but also needs to be installed |
| 19:21.36 | somiaj | jken: http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux-latest/102~bpo9%2B1/ |
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| 19:22.44 | jken | somiaj, they will list a dependency that does not exist. |
| 19:22.57 | jken | For example, I grabbed linux-image-amd64_4.19+102~bpo9+1_amd64.deb from http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux-latest/102~bpo9%2B1/#linux-image-amd64_4.19:2b:102:7e:bpo9:2b:1 |
| 19:23.08 | jken | Downloaded the .deb, inspected the control file, and it still has Depends: linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 19:23.16 | jken | which does not exist. |
| 19:23.34 | somiaj | jken: so download the actual kernel (not the meta package) which was my suggestion |
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| 19:23.49 | somiaj | sorry, my link was to the metapackage |
| 19:24.00 | somiaj | also check the bug reports, might be a problem with the package. |
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| 19:24.26 | jken | somiaj, can I get the non metapackage link? |
| 19:24.32 | jken | Having trouble finding it |
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| 19:25.22 | somiaj | http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux/4.19.16-1~bpo9%2B1/ |
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| 19:26.59 | jken | somiaj, thank you! |
| 19:27.11 | jhutchins_wk | Maybe there's a reason it was removed... |
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| 19:27.46 | somiaj | checking bug reports could answer that info |
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| 19:34.58 | jken | jhutchins_wk, the reason being someone wanted to ruin my day :P |
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| 19:41.17 | dasj19 | hey guys ... the debian installation just completed using the live usb I was using to see if it worked... now I am thinking there are two possibilities.. 1 either I had a bad usb flashing (I doubt it because i tried several times with cd mini and dvd) or the installer on the latest build has some issue |
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| 19:41.38 | greycat | "installation ... live" |
| 19:41.49 | greycat | Not an auspicious combo of words. |
| 19:43.54 | dasj19 | greycat: I meant I used the liveusb to install debian... |
| 19:44.04 | jhutchins_wk | dasj19: Also possible your download of the iso was corrupt. Did you checksum it? |
| 19:44.34 | greycat | Installation from the "live" images has always been spotty at best. |
| 19:44.55 | dasj19 | jhutchins_wk I did checksummet it with md5sum |
| 19:46.07 | jhutchins_wk | As is so often the case, when the reliable thing fails sometimes the unreliable one works. |
| 19:46.25 | shtrb | lol |
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| 19:46.44 | shtrb | the installer unreliably started to work |
| 19:46.56 | dasj19 | lol |
| 19:47.06 | j0seph | greycat: which image would your recommend using if one were to write it to a USB? the CD netinst ISO? |
| 19:48.27 | greycat | yes |
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| 20:06.20 | tom_work | Is there a tool in Debian I could use for reading wikipedia xml dumps offline? |
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| 20:07.19 | shtrb | less ?vim ? |
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| 20:09.02 | tom_work | Is there something I can use to parse the XML into human readable format? |
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| 20:09.41 | tom_work | I don't have Internet access all the time and need to able to read and use wikipedia offline |
| 20:09.49 | tom_work | for school |
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| 20:10.20 | johnfg | With 4 gb of memory, what's the recommended amount of swap to have? |
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| 20:11.11 | SwedeMike | johnfg: 4-8GB should be enough. If you're swapping more than that then the system is typically unusable anyway. |
| 20:11.15 | greycat | Too vague. Is it a laptop? Are you going to try to sleep/suspend? What are you running on it? |
| 20:12.34 | johnfg | greycat: Desktop, shouldn't need to sleep/suspend. Office software, serving ldap, openafs and probably apache2. |
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| 20:12.59 | greycat | It's a web server *and* a desktop box? Gaah. Definitely more than 0 swap, then. |
| 20:13.05 | nemo | tom_work: you'd think someone out there would have written an XSLT for wikipedia dumps |
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| 20:13.26 | nemo | tom_work: maybe ask on their IRC channel or something... at which point any random browser or parser could use it to make a nice HTML version |
| 20:13.35 | nemo | tom_work: or you could write your own transform I guess... |
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| 20:14.06 | johnfg | greycat: Is 1 gb of swap enough, too much? |
| 20:14.16 | greycat | I'd give it at least 4. |
| 20:14.17 | calamari | I'd like to add a few printk's to an existing kernel module. I actually haven't changed it yet, thought I'd do a pre-check. I moved the original ko and put my newly compiled one in, but it taints the kernel and I get a bunch of unknown symbol errors. As far as I can tell it's the same kernel version. Here are the steps I used, is there a better procedure? https://askubuntu.com/questions/168279/how-do-i-build-a-single-in-tree-kernel-module#338403 |
| 20:14.32 | nemo | tom_work: hm. looks like they also do static html dumps - maybe you should just use that |
| 20:14.34 | greycat | Better still, give it another computer to run the server stuff on. |
| 20:14.41 | nemo | tom_work: https://dumps.wikimedia.org/ |
| 20:15.23 | johnfg | greycat: recommends for, I'm guessing a headless system? |
| 20:15.39 | nemo | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps#Existing_tools |
| 20:16.07 | calamari | tom_work: first search result was kiwix, did you try that one already? |
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| 20:17.29 | johnfg | SwedeMike: Thanks! |
| 20:18.14 | SwedeMike | johnfg: if it's desktop then go for at last 8, in case you might want to upgrade the ram in the future. |
| 20:18.40 | shtrb | johnfg, use 1 to 2 timers of your RAM to play it safe |
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| 20:19.20 | johnfg | thanks guys! I'll get that set up. I'm definitely too low now. |
| 20:19.56 | tom_work | nemo, they havn't done static html dumps since 2008 |
| 20:20.19 | calamari | tom_work: never mind, kiwix wants some silly zim file |
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| 20:25.34 | tom_work | there's windows utilities, but I don't have windows |
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| 20:35.24 | wonderworld | tom_work: they have a linux client as well. i am using it. works fine. https://www.kiwix.org/downloads/ |
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| 20:37.12 | calamari | wonderworld: does that support xml dumps? I was reading a page where the author was dead set against xml dumps |
| 20:37.45 | greycat | wonders what an XML dump is and what kind of lunatic would perform one willingly |
| 20:37.48 | calamari | wonderworld: they insisted on some idiotic zim thing which was pre-rendered html |
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| 20:38.18 | caryatid | Hello! Looking for help w/ grub install when setting up a disk intended for another box. Specifically I'm running debian on /dev/sda and want to install a different config to /dev/sdc then put that disk in other hardware. mount /dev/sdc /foo -> chroot /foo -> debootstrap -> other config works, but how to do update-grub and have it ignore /dev/sda? |
| 20:39.01 | trysten | Is anybody mounting many webdav paths with davfs2? I was fine for a while using a single line in fstab because i was just using different credentials on the same server and all i had to change was my ~/.davfs2/secrets file. But now I'm connecting to a different server and not sure how to mount things as a normal user |
| 20:39.43 | trysten | What I mean is: what's a good practice for mounting webdav disks? I regularly need to do it as my normal user and feel silly switching to root just to mount a remote path |
| 20:39.50 | calamari | ahh.. I think my problem is debian is doing module signature verification |
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| 20:42.48 | trysten | caryatid: I've been working on a similar project. My current plan is to just manually specify the default entry so i get a good first boot, then rerun grub-mkconfig |
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| 20:49.56 | caryatid | trysten: sweet. was headed down the same direction. |
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| 20:51.14 | quantum | How do you install a local .deb in Debian 9? |
| 20:51.32 | ebernhardson | on a new buster instance i have python3.6 and python3.7 packages installed along with python3-distutils. python3.7 has the full distutils installation (from distutils import sysconfig doesn't error) but python3.6 doesn't have distutils installed. Is there a suggested solution? I don't see a python3.6-distutils package |
| 20:51.47 | quantum | Command-line doesn't work. Synapric doesn't work. Apper doesn't work. |
| 20:52.11 | nixhaxor | sudo dpkg -i <pkgname> |
| 20:52.12 | greycat | quantum: if you don't need to resolve dependencies, dpkg -i yourfile. If you need to fetch and install deps, apt install ./yourfile |
| 20:52.20 | quantum | I can't believe it. |
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| 20:54.24 | quantum | greycat: That's what I thought too, but: https://paste.ee/p/hioKB |
| 20:54.51 | quantum | Oh, the file is there. |
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| 20:55.21 | greycat | You did not include the ./ |
| 20:55.23 | greycat | !apt install |
| 20:55.23 | dpkg | You can specify a pathname to a manually downloaded .deb file in apt install, but it must begin with / or ./ or ../ or else apt thinks it's a package name. E.g. "apt install ./foo-1.2.deb". This supersedes <gdebi>. |
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| 20:56.25 | quantum | My god. I don't understand why synaptic and apper couldn't manage to do it. |
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| 20:57.22 | trysten | ebernhardson: python3-distutils is probably a virtual package. I'd use pipX install distutils where X is the version you want it for |
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| 20:58.37 | quantum | Even double-clicked in Dolphin, no dice. |
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| 20:59.11 | trysten | quantum: that's probably not a bug. |
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| 20:59.55 | greycat | I've never even heard of half the shit you're trying to use. |
| 21:00.19 | quantum | It's in Deb 9. |
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| 21:00.38 | greycat | The only response to "why didn't synaptic work?" is "synaptic? that still exists? people actually try to USE it?" |
| 21:02.05 | calamari | greycat: it works fine |
| 21:02.23 | greycat | no more creating a .gpg file with the wrong UID> |
| 21:02.24 | greycat | ? |
| 21:02.32 | quantum | Even though the Ubiquiti app is a .deb, nothing shows up in the menu. How do you list an installed package? |
| 21:03.14 | greycat | "dpkg -l pkgname" or "dpkg -l | grep stuff" |
| 21:03.24 | greycat | to see the contents (filenames), dpkg -L pkgname |
| 21:03.25 | quantum | Thx |
| 21:03.26 | trysten | lol quantum. try `dpkg -l <package name>` |
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| 21:03.39 | trysten | my command was wrong >.> |
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| 21:03.58 | greycat | It's correct, if you just want to see the version number and installation status. |
| 21:04.09 | greycat | The question was ambiguous. |
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| 21:05.00 | quantum | This is all I get: ii unifi 5.10.12-11629-1 all Ubiquiti UniFi server |
| 21:05.00 | calamari | if you want details use -s |
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| 21:05.19 | greycat | or "man dpkg" to learn how to use the package manager |
| 21:05.22 | quantum | Does -l list the files? Ir just the package? |
| 21:05.28 | greycat | 16:03 greycat> to see the contents (filenames), dpkg -L pkgname |
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| 21:05.34 | trysten | quantum: my command was wrong! you must use capital L |
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| 21:05.45 | calamari | greycat: or use synaptic :D |
| 21:05.53 | greycat | People use that? |
| 21:05.55 | trysten | hahahaha no |
| 21:06.03 | trysten | falls out of chair laughing |
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| 21:09.07 | calamari | joking aside, I honestly do still use it sometimes, but I find myself using the command line tools more and more |
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| 21:11.03 | quantum | Ok this is a trainwreck. https://paste.ee/p/LIxq8 |
| 21:11.03 | quantum | I'd hoped for more from Ubiquiti. |
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| 21:13.23 | rant | I use it sometimes, when I want to browse or make a lot of selections. I tend to use the commandline tools for searching and installing something specific |
| 21:14.53 | joepublic | I use apt, apt-get/cache, and occasionally aptitude |
| 21:14.53 | rant | though synaptic has been printing warnings/errors in stretch |
| 21:14.53 | joepublic | I have seen gooey tools to gum up the process, but in general do not participate in that |
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| 21:15.51 | rant | installs something at random to see what the messages are |
| 21:16.43 | rant | figures.. I picked that 0ad at the top of the list and it'd f'n 600MB or so and my network is a lil congested :P |
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| 21:18.22 | rant | goes with 2ping instead |
| 21:18.45 | quantum | How do I change something in NetworkMangler when I have insufficient privs as a user? |
| 21:19.05 | rant | hmm, now its not doing it .. oh well |
| 21:19.47 | greycat | You could have just picked something small and self-contained like cowsay, or setpriv, or ksh. |
| 21:19.56 | rant | quantum: do you not have root access on this machine? |
| 21:20.23 | quantum | I do, but I'm in KDE as a user, and NetworkMangler is GUI. |
| 21:21.03 | quantum | At the end of my rope. |
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| 21:21.43 | rant | quantum: where did you get it from? I'm not seeing it |
| 21:22.03 | SerajewelKS | quantum: FWIW, i have unifi running fine without issues, so it is possible |
| 21:22.08 | rant | unless you are being an ass and calling network manager something else :P |
| 21:22.18 | quantum | It comes with Deb9. System Tray. |
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| 21:22.41 | rant | nothing that would be considered "system tray" comes with Debian 9 |
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| 21:23.05 | quantum | Not if you're running Gnome... |
| 21:23.27 | SerajewelKS | quantum: the pastbin you showed us says it's running, so i'm not sure why it's a trainwreck |
| 21:23.44 | quantum | Did you notice all the errors? |
| 21:23.52 | SerajewelKS | yes. did you notice line 31? |
| 21:23.59 | rant | even google isn't showing any results for network mangler debian :P |
| 21:24.05 | quantum | I can't make colors in pastebin but they're red in real life. |
| 21:24.12 | rant | when I remove debian it comes up for ubuntu |
| 21:24.19 | SerajewelKS | quantum: have you tried to _use_ it? |
| 21:25.02 | jelly | !mangle rant |
| 21:25.09 | quantum | localhost:8080? Yes, it can't find my Unifi AC Pro. |
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| 21:25.40 | quantum | I think because it's in a different Class C. But I can't add an IP because of NetworkManager. |
| 21:25.49 | quantum | ... insists I must be root. |
| 21:26.16 | SerajewelKS | quantum: right, they're found via broadcast packets so you either need to be in the same subnet, or have broadcast forwarding, or manually provision the AP |
| 21:27.13 | quantum | So I'm stuck and days behind. |
| 21:27.24 | SerajewelKS | quantum: you can manually adopt the controller from the AP even if it is in a different subnet |
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| 21:28.16 | SerajewelKS | or you can just 'sudo ip add ...' if the two subnets are on the same layer 2 network |
| 21:28.26 | quantum | I don't have that option, and there is no hamburger. |
| 21:28.38 | SerajewelKS | no you manually adopt on the AP, not the controller |
| 21:29.03 | quantum | Can't get to the SP. I can SSH to it, but that's it. |
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| 21:29.54 | quantum | If I could just add an IP in Debian. |
| 21:30.15 | SerajewelKS | quantum: so run these commands in the ssh session: mca-cli; set-inform http://$IP:8080/inform |
| 21:30.19 | SerajewelKS | where $IP is the IP of the controller |
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| 21:30.54 | SerajewelKS | if it successful, the AP will show up in the controller as pending adoption. adopt it, then re-run the set-inform command on the AP. |
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| 21:37.05 | quantum | SerajewelKS: It accepted the command but the controller doesn't see it after reload. |
| 21:37.43 | SerajewelKS | quantum: i'm assuming no firewall would be blocking the AP from talking to the controller on port 8080? |
| 21:38.13 | quantum | No firewall in this Debian VM. |
| 21:38.34 | quantum | I started with port 8080 but somehow now ended up on 8443. |
| 21:38.36 | SerajewelKS | you might take a computer to that subnet with the AP and try curling http://$IP:8080/inform |
| 21:38.43 | SerajewelKS | to rule out connectivity issues |
| 21:39.07 | quantum | Curl the controller or AP? |
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| 21:39.21 | SerajewelKS | curl the controller on port 8080 from the same subnet the AP is on |
| 21:39.31 | SerajewelKS | or directly from the AP if it has curl |
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| 21:41.03 | quantum | # curl http://192.168.111.42:8080/inform |
| 21:41.03 | quantum | curl: (7) Failed to connect to 192.168.111.42 port 8080: Connection refused |
| 21:41.13 | quantum | ... this is from the controller. |
| 21:41.18 | quantum | to the AP |
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| 21:41.35 | quantum | All 3 iptables are ACCEPT. |
| 21:41.38 | SerajewelKS | that's literally the opposite of what i asked you to do |
| 21:41.58 | quantum | You said curl the controller. |
| 21:42.05 | SerajewelKS | yes |
| 21:42.14 | SerajewelKS | not the AP |
| 21:42.20 | SerajewelKS | you curl'd the AP from the controller |
| 21:42.20 | quantum | You mean curl -from- the controller? |
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| 21:42.32 | SerajewelKS | ... no |
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| 21:42.39 | SerajewelKS | curl TO the controller FROM the AP |
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| 21:43.15 | quantum | No curl in the AP. |
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| 21:43.50 | SerajewelKS | :( |
| 21:44.03 | SerajewelKS | can you get a computer on the same subnet as the AP and try to curl the controller? |
| 21:44.28 | quantum | No telnet. |
| 21:44.47 | quantum | I've manually add an IP to the controller. |
| 21:45.00 | quantum | It's now in the same subnet as the AP. |
| 21:45.22 | quantum | It can ping the AP. |
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| 21:49.47 | SerajewelKS | does it show in the controller now? |
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| 21:51.56 | quantum | I systemctl restart-ed unifi but no change. So I've just rebooted the controller VM. |
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| 21:52.20 | quantum | Every 3 minutes it goes into this damned lock screen. |
| 21:52.23 | SerajewelKS | is the controller using bridged networking? |
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| 21:52.53 | SerajewelKS | i've had issues occasionally when adopting an AP to the controller and _every time_ it turned out to be a networking issue |
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| 21:54.10 | quantum | I use SR-IOP for ethernet so every VM has its own virtual NIC. They're set to Passthrough in KVM. |
| 21:54.54 | SerajewelKS | SR-IOP? |
| 21:55.07 | SerajewelKS | (google doesn't even know what that is) |
| 21:55.36 | SerajewelKS | if the AP can't do HTTP to the controller on port 8080 and hit /inform then nothing is going to work |
| 21:55.46 | SerajewelKS | so i would start under the assumption that that is _not_ working |
| 21:58.22 | quantum | Sorry, SR-IOV - You take one Intel NIC and can virtualize it into 7 independent interfacen. |
| 21:59.30 | quantum | I have a 4-channel NIC so 28 virtual NICs. |
| 21:59.50 | SerajewelKS | gotcha |
| 22:00.16 | quantum | Well, this used to work with Controller in Winduhs. But it doesn't anymore. Nor in Debian. |
| 22:00.25 | SerajewelKS | :/ |
| 22:00.25 | quantum | No change to the AP. |
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| 22:00.33 | SerajewelKS | wait. was the AP adopted by another controller previously? |
| 22:00.59 | quantum | Prob in a diff VM, maybe in an older Winduhs. |
| 22:01.07 | SerajewelKS | facepalms |
| 22:01.11 | SerajewelKS | well fuck dude no wonder it's not working |
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| 22:01.30 | quantum | You mean they're married together? |
| 22:01.35 | SerajewelKS | yes. you need to factory reset the AP. |
| 22:01.43 | quantum | Oh, FFS. |
| 22:02.08 | SerajewelKS | hold reset button for 10 sec, until the ring light changes. don't cut power. let it reset for a minute or two. |
| 22:02.14 | quantum | What a red-arsed hassle. Why do they do that?! |
| 22:02.33 | SerajewelKS | so that some random person can't come on your network with their own controller software and take over all of your APs |
| 22:02.57 | quantum | My gosh. Thank you SerajewelKS. |
| 22:03.17 | SerajewelKS | np |
| 22:03.29 | SerajewelKS | once you're done the set-inform trick i showed you should work if they're not on the same subnet |
| 22:03.38 | quantum | I can't get Wifi to associate in Armbian and can't figure out why. Hoping for clues in the AP. |
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| 22:09.13 | SerajewelKS | quantum: note that you can issue a factory reset command from the controller, so if you know that you are going to trash the controller instance then you can do that ahead of time so you don't have to go physically interact with all of the APs to reset them. |
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| 22:11.34 | ryouma | been trying to distinguish soft from hard freeze. the former means no new packages? latter means everything requires approval? |
| 22:11.37 | ryouma | something like that? |
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| 22:12.12 | jhutchins | !!freeze |
| 22:12.19 | jhutchins | !freeze |
| 22:12.19 | dpkg | The 'freeze' is when large changes to testing version of Debian are stopped for few months. During this period, no new package uploads are made except to fix critical bugs or to provide documentation updates. During the freeze, bugs are squashed to 'stabilize' the release to make the new 'stable'. Stretch started to freeze in Nov 2016 and entered full freeze on 5 Feb 2017. Also ask me about <slushy>, <stretch freeze>. |
| 22:13.23 | ryouma | jhutchins: thanks, but that doesn't seem to say what the /difference/ is |
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| 22:14.03 | jhutchins | ryouma: I was hoping the factoid might have a link. |
| 22:14.08 | ryouma | :) |
| 22:14.45 | n4dir | then perhaps the debian wiki has that info, i am sure i read the explanation between soft and hard freeze short ago, and in one of the public/official sources |
| 22:15.18 | greycat | I don't think the terms are formally defined anywhere. |
| 22:15.32 | ozzloy | does anyone in here have a printer that Just Works with libre drivers? |
| 22:15.43 | jhutchins | ryouma: http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/debian-enters-freeze-state-for-buster-release |
| 22:16.25 | greycat | "linuxandubuntu"? as if ubuntu weren't a linux? |
| 22:16.35 | ozzloy | i'm tired of having my printer decide it wants to stop doing double sided sometimes, or decide that there's a paper jam when there IS NO PAPERJAM |
| 22:17.04 | ozzloy | all i have to do is hit the button to say i've "cleared" the paper jam, then it goes |
| 22:17.05 | jhutchins | I take that to be "Linux in general and Ubuntu specifically". |
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| 22:17.36 | jhutchins | ozzloy: Probably has a sticky or dirty sensor. |
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| 22:18.00 | ozzloy | jhutchins, probably |
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| 22:19.15 | ozzloy | well, the phantom paper jam, probably |
| 22:19.16 | greycat | and yet they reported on a Debian freeze, and their only piece of information about what to expect is a GNOME version number |
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| 22:22.48 | ozzloy | buster isn't the slinky dog? |
| 22:22.58 | joepublic | buster isn't the slinky dog. |
| 22:23.37 | ozzloy | "Did you know? Buster is ... not actually a toy." |
| 22:23.59 | ozzloy | then what is the name of the slinky dog? MY WHOLE WORLD IS CRASHING DOWN AROUND ME!!! |
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| 22:24.39 | ozzloy | oh, its name is "Slinky". that makes sense. |
| 22:24.42 | joepublic | Sorry about your world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toy_Story_characters#Slinky_Dog |
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| 22:26.10 | ozzloy | i just need some time. i'll be ok. thanks for the support. |
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| 22:28.43 | de-facto | How do I point apt to use a HTTP_PROXY at the standard gateway on a specific port? Hardwiring IPs is not an option, so i would have to do it dynamically on runtime... |
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| 22:50.35 | SerajewelKS | de-facto: i'm sure there's a less terrible way, but this could work: HTTP_PROXY=http://$(/sbin/ip route list exact 0.0.0.0/0 | grep -o 'via [^ ]*' | cut -d' ' -f2):8080 |
| 22:51.06 | SerajewelKS | de-facto: assuming that it's port 8080 |
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| 22:51.40 | de-facto | I am trying to do it like this |
| 22:51.45 | de-facto | echo 'http_proxy=$(ip route show default | cut -d' ' -f3)' >> /etc/profile |
| 22:52.20 | de-facto | ah im missing the port |
| 22:52.26 | SerajewelKS | "show default" isn't useful though, it's the same as "list" by itself |
| 22:52.43 | SerajewelKS | it will also show other routes. that's why "ip route list exact 0.0.0.0/0" works. |
| 22:53.07 | SerajewelKS | the grep also makes sure that you get the right option (the gateway) so it's more stable should there be other route options added later |
| 22:53.46 | de-facto | ok that makes more sense then |
| 22:54.00 | SerajewelKS | it may also be a good idea to pipe through 'head -1' between ip and grep |
| 22:54.07 | SerajewelKS | just in case you have multiple default routes; you only want one of them |
| 22:54.07 | de-facto | is it upper case or lower case HTTP_PROXY or http_proxy? |
| 22:54.27 | de-facto | its inside a docker build container |
| 22:54.40 | SerajewelKS | there is no standard, it's whatever your program expects to see |
| 22:55.11 | SerajewelKS | elinks will look for either upper or lowercase |
| 22:55.24 | SerajewelKS | other stuff may only look for one or the other. so try them, and/or check the docker docs. |
| 22:55.30 | de-facto | apt-get update && apt-get --yes upgrade |
| 22:55.32 | SerajewelKS | or set both |
| 22:56.05 | SerajewelKS | if the gateway will not change while the machine is running, you could export this env var in /etc/profile |
| 22:56.35 | de-facto | it will not change during runtime, but also only be known at runtime |
| 22:56.49 | SerajewelKS | actually profile will be executed by every login |
| 22:56.57 | de-facto | e.g. i run a squid at "docker0" in the host system and want to reach that via apt-get from within the container |
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| 23:04.43 | ebol4 | weird question, I've got a small machine with 6 ethernet interfaces running Debian x86. the interfaces are numbered, physically, on the chassis, 1 through 6 |
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| 23:05.05 | ebol4 | they are in order of ascending mac addresses, so 1 is xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:01, and so on |
| 23:05.07 | Wulf | dork: I'm familiar with it. But I don't use jessie anymore. |
| 23:05.24 | ebol4 | in debian, the interfaces are out of order, e.g. interface 2 on the chassis is eth6 |
| 23:05.51 | SerajewelKS | ebol4: have a look in /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian.gz |
| 23:06.00 | SerajewelKS | ebol4: it discusses how to set up persistent and custom interface names |
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| 23:06.40 | SerajewelKS | ebol4: specifically the section "Custom net interface naming" |
| 23:06.57 | ebol4 | SerajewelKS: the issue is that I'm trying to build a generic device image using Debian, so while I can hardocde interface names to MAC addresses on this one, if I flash another device with this OS image, the MAC addresses will be different |
| 23:07.02 | ebol4 | is there a dynamic way to do this? |
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| 23:07.57 | ebol4 | right now, i have a script that runs on boot that just calls "ip link set <> name <>" to rename them all in order of MAC address |
| 23:08.01 | ebol4 | but it doesn't always work properly |
| 23:08.09 | SerajewelKS | hmm. you could have a script that runs once at first boot, sorts the interfaces by MAC address, writes out the rules file, deletes itself, and reboots. |
| 23:08.24 | ebol4 | ah that's an idea, i could write out the udev rules file |
| 23:09.11 | SerajewelKS | yeah. use a systemd oneshot service unit maybe. if the rules are written successfully, the script could also (instead of deleting itself) disable and mask the unit, then reboot. |
| 23:09.42 | SerajewelKS | so the image would reboot itself one time, the first time it's started from the image |
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| 23:10.14 | SerajewelKS | obviously care must be taken when maintaining the image itself. so possibly include some way to detect if the booted machine is the source image and have the script abort in that case. |
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| 23:27.19 | trysten | SerajewelKS: great work with quantum on the UniFi AP's. I read the stuff and appreciate it. Any more tips or resources for the UniFi system? "Don't use them, use X" counts. |
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| 23:31.26 | de-facto | SerajewelKS, do you know if apt-get always uses the "export http_proxy=" from /etc/profile ? I tested it and shut down my proxy before, and it still was able to pull packages... |
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| 23:33.29 | ebol4 | SerajewelKS: works perfectly, thanks! |
| 23:33.45 | de-facto | can i force apt to always use a http proxy which is determined at runtime at the default gateway? |
| 23:33.46 | ksk | de-facto: depends on how apt is invoked Id say. |
| 23:34.01 | de-facto | can you elaborate? |
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| 23:34.59 | de-facto | it will be called from a docker image, so i doubt there will be logins and such |
| 23:35.38 | ksk | If you have a shell, which has http_proxy set, it will use it. |
| 23:35.41 | de-facto | e.g. my CI/CD system will use a docker image to build, and i guess it will just set the ENTRYPOINT |
| 23:35.43 | trysten | de-facto: you can probably test the behavior with curl. I'd guess that it just falls back if the proxy is unavailable. |
| 23:36.04 | ksk | if you do "dockerfoo exec my-container apt-get update" it will most likely not source your /etc/profile |
| 23:36.15 | de-facto | yeah |
| 23:36.21 | de-facto | thats what i suspect |
| 23:36.46 | ksk | where is it written how apt* handles proxy things? having problems to find the right manpage |
| 23:37.10 | ksk | Id suspect there would be options to put in /etc/apt/conf.d or what that path was, to set a proxy permanently |
| 23:37.26 | de-facto | i tried writing a static ip to "/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01-proxy" and that seems to fail if the proxy is not reachable |
| 23:37.40 | de-facto | but i have to determine the correct ip address at runtime |
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| 23:38.01 | ksk | de-facto: then its not an apt problem, but "How do I orchestrate my stuff" |
| 23:38.02 | de-facto | e.g. $(ip route show default | cut -d' ' -f3):3142 |
| 23:38.33 | de-facto | can i use a script in "/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01-proxy" ? |
| 23:38.43 | Tenkawa | thats not an apt problem |
| 23:38.57 | Tenkawa | thats likely a dns/routing problem |
| 23:39.06 | ksk | setup a reverse-proxy, which does that determining of its proxy (via config-managment maybe?) - and then put the first proxy into sources.list |
| 23:39.34 | Tenkawa | Acquire::http::Proxy "http://myproxy.domain.com:8080" in apt setup should work in all scenarios |
| 23:39.46 | ksk | this will also make apt fail it its proxy is not reachable |
| 23:39.57 | Tenkawa | in apt.conf.d |
| 23:40.00 | ksk | s/it/if/ |
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| 23:40.13 | de-facto | dang i dont want to run a dns server just for that |
| 23:40.20 | Tenkawa | so if its working then not something else is causing it |
| 23:40.30 | de-facto | and i dont want to have the proxy reachable by public interface of my server |
| 23:40.58 | Tenkawa | de-facto: it may be something as simple as your resolver not configuring properly |
| 23:41.10 | ksk | maybe you should rethink what you are doing rather ;) |
| 23:41.12 | de-facto | what do you mean? |
| 23:41.28 | ksk | de-facto: what is your actual problem? why would the IP of a proxyserver change? |
| 23:41.41 | Tenkawa | does /etc/resolv.conf on one that has the problem look like it has the correct contents |
| 23:41.57 | Tenkawa | ksk: good q |
| 23:42.04 | de-facto | ok what i am doing: I am building a docker image from within a git repo with my ci/cd system and want to configure it to always use my host system squid proxy for caching http traffic during development and building |
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| 23:42.42 | de-facto | ksk because its always on the containers standard gateway, and that is always just determined at runtime |
| 23:42.47 | de-facto | its not predictable |
| 23:42.53 | ksk | so tell the ci/cd to apply $proxy to everything it does?^ |
| 23:43.00 | ksk | like, start at the top of your stack |
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| 23:44.11 | de-facto | is apt not scriptable? |
| 23:44.30 | ksk | isnt the gateway rather determined by how you choose to name/set/call your container? |
| 23:44.54 | ksk | like, you ci/cd a webserver-role, so the gateway is X. you ci/cd a mysql-role, so gateway is Y? |
| 23:44.57 | de-facto | nope. it will use the next free private ip range for the container when its started |
| 23:45.34 | ksk | cool. so make it also use the right gateway? |
| 23:46.00 | ksk | like, if your CI/CD TELLS your container which IP it should take, it should also be totally able to tell it which gateway to take |
| 23:46.25 | Tenkawa | br |
| 23:46.30 | Tenkawa | brb |
| 23:46.47 | ksk | I dont really want to harm you or anything, I just think you are trying to solve this from the wrong end. |
| 23:47.08 | ksk | and no, apt is not like "put your bash scripts here" extendable |
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| 23:47.26 | ksk | (as far as I know) |
| 23:47.47 | de-facto | ksk, i start squid at my host system "docker0" interface (e.g. 172.17.0.1) at 3142. This is always reachable from within the containers at their _current_ standard gateway, eg. one time at 192.168.0.1 or another time at 172.20.0.1 or such |
| 23:48.03 | de-facto | depending on which networks are available during the container start |
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| 23:49.34 | ksk | lemme try wrapping my head around this.. |
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| 23:50.24 | ksk | "docker0" interface == a network bridge? |
| 23:50.32 | ksk | would probably help if I knew docker :x |
| 23:50.36 | de-facto | yes its a bridge at the host system |
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| 23:52.28 | de-facto | the standard gateway from within each container represents this "docker0" brigde from the host system |
| 23:52.44 | ksk | yeah I think I get it. |
| 23:52.46 | de-facto | the routing in between is done by docker magic |
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| 23:53.20 | trysten | well, with routing and more bridge interfaces. |
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| 23:53.25 | ksk | dirty hack: create a systemd unit-file which determines the right gateway-ip after networking was started, and make it write that to apt |
| 23:53.51 | ksk | other solutions would include changing your networking I think. |
| 23:53.51 | de-facto | oh thats actually not such a bad idea at all :) |
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| 23:54.25 | ksk | its not too clean, and I suspect it might bite you back in the future maybe. but yes, best I can come up with now :P |
| 23:54.27 | trysten | It's not a great idea. Set proxy in dockerfile |
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| 23:55.09 | trysten | Rather, it's a great idea, thank you ksk. Set proxy at container runtime |
| 23:55.16 | trysten | https://docs.docker.com/network/proxy/ |
| 23:55.34 | ksk | trysten: now Im confused :> |
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| 23:56.11 | trysten | I felt mean when I said it wasn't a great idea. Good job thinking of it, but I don't think it's a good practice. My grammar is failing |
| 23:56.20 | Tenkawa | I think hes saying force the container to proxy |
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| 23:56.41 | ksk | ah okay. no harm done here, thanks. |
| 23:56.56 | Tenkawa | which if you are nat'ing would be fine |
| 23:57.06 | trysten | If you want to force all traffic to do something you ought to adjust the docker network. |
| 23:57.15 | Tenkawa | but if they are real ips might be problematic |
| 23:57.35 | Tenkawa | well time for me to head out... cheers all. |
| 23:57.47 | trysten | Peace. (he gone) |
| 23:58.23 | ksk | iirc, "make docker apply the proxy" was the first thing I said when I read his question :D |
| 23:58.44 | trysten | :) gj ksk |
| 23:59.59 | de-facto | yes i may need to go the dns route one day or even make a transparent proxy on the host with iptables et al, but for now i am going to determine the default gw at runtime and write that in apt.conf, just to see how far this goes |
