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| 00:28.29 | johnfg | hi folks |
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| 00:28.37 | godane | i noticed that virutalbox 6.0.4 doesn't have a i386 version |
| 00:28.41 | godane | why is that? |
| 00:29.06 | godane | i can build the kernel module fine using i386 kernel headers and stuff |
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| 00:31.41 | OerHeks | Vbox has no i386 packages since 4.x or so |
| 00:32.23 | godane | but i had a i386 for 5.2.24 |
| 00:34.04 | tomreyn | i think it's 6.0 when they stoppped supporting i386 |
| 00:34.14 | godane | a example url : http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/contrib/v/virtualbox/virtualbox-qt_5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1_i386.deb |
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| 00:34.48 | godane | but other stuff supports i386 like kernel modules |
| 00:35.20 | godane | if i have to go amd64 how would you do that in a chroot with i386 host |
| 00:35.49 | tomreyn | not |
| 00:35.50 | OerHeks | oh right, v 5.x was the last i386 version |
| 00:35.52 | godane | i have a 64-bit cpu i just use i386 os wiht pae |
| 00:36.21 | tomreyn | just reinstall |
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| 00:36.39 | godane | i can't reinstall cause i do a fraugal install |
| 00:36.48 | godane | like livecd + changes |
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| 00:36.59 | godane | on hard drive |
| 00:37.07 | tomreyn | not sure what this is |
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| 00:37.31 | godane | linux-live : https://github.com/Tomas-M/linux-live |
| 00:37.38 | godane | i use a custom version of that |
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| 00:37.56 | OerHeks | sorry, use vbox 5 or nothing |
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| 00:39.52 | tomreyn | i can understand why you would want to do this one-time, for a special event, but always running like like, what's the use case there? |
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| 00:42.35 | godane | its my own custom os so i can keep the os fully configure and backed up |
| 00:43.27 | godane | also so i don't screw up the os so i can return to clean state if i need too |
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| 00:45.45 | godane | i may see if i can use the weekly testing iso mix with my code so i can build my own iso in amd64 |
| 00:46.31 | tomreyn | you should consider snapshotting, maybe a portable ssd |
| 00:46.41 | tomreyn | and actual backups |
| 00:46.56 | godane | i figure the live weekly build uses squashfs image then i just need to make a custom initrd file with my scripts |
| 00:47.05 | godane | i have a backup on usb sticks |
| 00:47.32 | godane | i use to build linux distro all the time back in 2008/2009 era |
| 00:47.37 | tomreyn | actual backups are on hdds or tape |
| 00:47.48 | godane | i have those too |
| 00:48.08 | godane | at least the squashfs files of those builds |
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| 00:48.59 | johnfg | hi guys |
| 00:49.41 | johnfg | I have debian stretch configured so I get a krb5 key, and openafs token when I login via the console, or through x11vnc. |
| 00:49.49 | johnfg | For some reason, I don't get them automatically when I login via ssh. |
| 00:49.53 | johnfg | What am I missing? |
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| 00:53.22 | johnfg | I do have UsePam yes in sshd_config. |
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| 01:03.25 | johnfg | even using ssh -K <ip.address> doesn't give me credentials. |
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| 01:45.14 | de-facto | is there a way to tell the kernel to always do echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/docker0/route_localnet ? what would be the security implications? |
| 01:47.02 | de-facto | i mean "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/default/route_localnet", what risk does it imply? |
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| 01:53.14 | ross` | x2goclient : Depends: libssh-4 (>= 0.5.4-2~) but it is not going to be installed |
| 01:53.47 | ross` | debian_version: 9.8 |
| 01:53.56 | theluckymike | de-facto: seems this only adds option to use your loopback as source ip when routing. I see more possible routing issues than security ones |
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| 01:55.46 | de-facto | theluckymike, what kind of routing issues could arise from that setting? |
| 01:56.14 | theluckymike | de-facto: your loopback ip can be anything, when you route packet out of system with such source, other systems with network must know how to route it back |
| 01:57.00 | theluckymike | specially, if your loopback is only 127.0.0.1/8, no system will be able to route it back |
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| 01:58.19 | de-facto | yes my loopback only is on 127.0.0.1/8, it seems i need that setting to be able to do NAT with iptables to a http forward proxy which previously was at the interface from the lan, but i want to have it on localhost only |
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| 02:00.59 | theluckymike | de-facto: I guess something similar like this https://hauweele.net/~gawen/blog/?tag=route_localnet |
| 02:01.06 | awal1 | how to force a smaller resolution for my tv connected via hdmi? |
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| 02:01.17 | theluckymike | awal1: xrandr |
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| 02:01.20 | awal1 | everythung i tried fails |
| 02:01.41 | awal1 | theluckymike, already used xrandr/lxrandr |
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| 02:01.49 | theluckymike | and what doesn't work? |
| 02:02.31 | theluckymike | if you just type xrandr, it should dshow you all connections with default resolutions |
| 02:02.32 | awal1 | my real problem is: resolution is chosen but full screen video still using maximum screen size |
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| 02:03.42 | subcool | Ok. I cant boot into my Xen Kernel. It auto shuts off. Ihave gotten it to work before, but i had to fresh install . So, here we are again. |
| 02:03.45 | awal1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:03.49 | de-facto | theluckymike, yes kinda, its a bit more complicated, i want to transparently http proxy for docker containers, previously i had my forward proxy at docker0 (172.17.0.1) but now moved it to 127.0.0.1 and do a DNAT to that for all docker inferfaces |
| 02:03.54 | awal1 | theluckymike, |
| 02:03.58 | subcool | I am in a normal kernel right now, trying to figure this out, |
| 02:04.14 | subcool | how do i view the previous Boot log to see whats up |
| 02:04.23 | theluckymike | de-facto: yes, you will need to enable that for it to work |
| 02:04.42 | awal1 | also if i put any app window in maximum size border/title bar gets hidden |
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| 02:05.05 | theluckymike | some tv's need to be calibrated |
| 02:05.09 | de-facto | theluckymike, yes, where can i enable that as early as possible? |
| 02:05.23 | de-facto | e.g. before docker starts and creates its interfaces |
| 02:05.30 | theluckymike | de-facto: I think it is static setting |
| 02:05.52 | de-facto | yet the interfaces came up without that flag |
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| 02:06.02 | awal1 | i had an extra computer monitor via vga and all fine; i suspect hdmi is a bit problematic with linux or what? |
| 02:07.47 | sneep | subcool: Do you just get a black screen and a reboot after grub? |
| 02:08.53 | awal1 | theluckymike, calibrated? |
| 02:12.32 | awal1 | calibrated with what |
| 02:12.48 | theluckymike | sorry, not really calibrate, sec |
| 02:13.23 | ross` | Can anyone help me get x2goclient working on debian 9.8 |
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| 02:14.18 | theluckymike | 03:46:34> < awal1> also if i put any app window in maximum size border/title bar gets hidden , this sounds as either wrong scaling/resolution or your tv/monitor is doing wrong overscan |
| 02:14.19 | awal1 | i tried to resize tv screen via it's own settings but i still have same issue: fullscreen video and apps windows in maximized mode still using default max tv size 1920x1080 |
| 02:15.02 | awal1 | i think the tv is the problem not my debian / openbox |
| 02:15.03 | theluckymike | do you have multiple monitors where primary is having same 1920x1080 ? |
| 02:15.29 | awal1 | bcoz with another computer monitor via vga no issues at all |
| 02:16.05 | awal1 | no, my lvds-1 is 1366x768 |
| 02:16.37 | theluckymike | awal1: https://askubuntu.com/questions/4358/how-do-i-fix-overscan-on-my-hdmi-hdtv maybe this gives a hint |
| 02:16.42 | theluckymike | but yes, seems a monitor / screen setting |
| 02:18.32 | awal1 | ok |
| 02:20.12 | r3 | Sorry for the dumb question, but which image should I use for an older AMD Sempron 150 based system, amd64 or i386? |
| 02:20.33 | theluckymike | i had similar issues with my hdmi connections often, but im still not sure how app can open above its screens resoluton tho, sorry awal1 |
| 02:20.35 | pagetelegram | I have similar overscan issues....the link you provide suggests a program called "powerstrip" I will be looking for that now. I have a 50" Plasma Magnavox that is pre-"smart (spy on everything you do)" era TVs |
| 02:21.22 | karlpinc | r3: Is that cpu 32 bit or 64 bit? |
| 02:21.26 | r3 | amd64 I think, and am going with it ;) |
| 02:22.00 | r3 | (looked it up, and it says AMD64 Tech, at least this one page does, if it won't boot then I know what the problem is heh) |
| 02:22.02 | awal1 | theluckymike, no problem :) |
| 02:22.12 | karlpinc | r3: Best is to let the installer choose. Get the unofficial netinstall with non-free firmware. |
| 02:22.23 | karlpinc | !tell r3 about firmware images |
| 02:22.34 | awal1 | in settings i have fuul, waterglass, expand and zoom option. only full works ok |
| 02:23.12 | karlpinc | r3: I think there's a universal installer that just chooses for you. Otherwise, if you try to boot the amd64 installer and it won't boot, it's because you have a 32 bit cpu and need to use the 32bit installer. |
| 02:23.40 | r3 | karlpinc: ok, will do, thanks for the link |
| 02:25.07 | pagetelegram | "powerstrip" is a Windows program....nothing for linux in my search so far. |
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| 02:25.42 | theluckymike | pagetelegram: I'm not sure where you found powerstrip. Those issues usually occur on hdmi and usually are because of your tv's settings. |
| 02:25.52 | pagetelegram | It is interesting that my Raspbian Pi computer displays 1920x1080 just fine without overscan issue in X11 yet all Deb distros I tried with x64 system have the overscan issue. |
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| 02:26.27 | pagetelegram | I've tried about 5 distros so far in the last week all Deb based and all have same overscan issue |
| 02:26.39 | theluckymike | what tv/monitor you use? |
| 02:27.39 | pagetelegram | It's an old Magnavox Plasma 50" screen. I'll have to dig for the mdoel however it has no overscan setting in menu and just only two available setting for 4x3 and 16:9 |
| 02:27.51 | karlpinc | pagetelegram: FWIW I've had strange problems with a (stock, no-linux) ASUS tablet. It will only work when using a HDMI 1.3 cable or earlier. |
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| 02:28.23 | karlpinc | (or maybe it's earlier than HDMI 1.3. I forget.) |
| 02:28.31 | subcool | sneep, i have a blank screen leading into the system halt/shutdown. It is post grub. But - the halt is like a forced shutdown |
| 02:28.45 | pagetelegram | 50MF231D |
| 02:29.43 | karlpinc | subcool: What does halt/shutdown have to do with grub? |
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| 02:32.22 | pagetelegram | The gtf command line utility is a great asset. It generates modelines at any resolution and refresh rate based on the VESA General Timing Formula. You may need to make minor tweaks, as video cards sometimes have limitations on the resolution of their dot clock settings." - AVS forum :: trying this next |
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| 02:32.44 | sneep | subcool: You could try specifying earlyprintk=vga,keep or earlyprintk=efi,keep (if you're booting using EFI) on the kernel command line |
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| 02:35.17 | theluckymike | pagetelegram: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2380987&p=13725988#post13725988 |
| 02:36.11 | pagetelegram | Mike < Thank you! Trying now |
| 02:36.34 | pagetelegram | Last time I was toynig with xrandr was with that monkey business with --transform. |
| 02:37.22 | theluckymike | awal1: I found xrandr parameter in its manpage that could cause your issue: --nograb, |
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| 02:39.24 | pagetelegram | display is flickery though that did the trick with the overscan issue' |
| 02:43.06 | theluckymike | pagetelegram: seems here are some more ideas https://askubuntu.com/questions/508358/overscanning-picture-problem-using-hdmi-with-intel-graphics |
| 02:43.10 | theluckymike | enough with screens -.- |
| 02:46.32 | awal1 | theluckymike, ok, i will look at that --no-grab option and work it in my config after my dinner :P thanks |
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| 03:15.19 | altker128 | Hey guys...stupid question here. Have a Debian stretch machine, with two local users ; is it "normal" that either user can cd into the other's homedir? I haven't changed permissions on the default folders, which is 0755 |
| 03:15.39 | altker128 | That "default" behavior does NOT seem right to me, wondering what's off |
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| 03:16.45 | OerHeks | altker128, sounds normal, that is why encrypted home is available |
| 03:16.45 | altker128 | Seems like the permission should be 0754 |
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| 03:23.03 | sneep | altker128: Normal on Debian |
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| 03:23.52 | sneep | RHEL has 0700 for home directories I think |
| 03:23.58 | altker128 | sneep: I'm trying to change that ; I changed permisions on /etc/skel to 0754 and edited /etc/login.defs UMASK and set to 023 but when creating a new user the homefolder has 0755 permissions...any suggestions? |
| 03:25.18 | tomreyn | altker128: sudo dpkg-reconfigure adduser |
| 03:25.44 | altker128 | tomreyn: Wow, awesome, thank you! |
| 03:26.06 | tomreyn | yw |
| 03:27.48 | rant | so I got this Thinkpad T61 with stretch here and I installed nvidia-legacy-340xxx-dkms, xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-340xxx, g86m / quadro nvs 140m [10de:0429] (rev a1) I have no kernel module loading, nothing.. idk whats going on. |
| 03:28.54 | rant | breaks into a smooth dance and Marvi Gaye "ooo.. what's goin on.. what's goin on.." |
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| 03:30.49 | rant | I'm gonna reinstall it all here shortly as I just refurbed this machine and I wanna enable encryption on it.. but I was kinda trying to figure out what was required to get it all working using the install I already had on this hdd |
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| 03:31.33 | dvs | so you don't have any video or just unaccelerated video? |
| 03:32.08 | rant | video behaves differently than before .. think its reverted to some generic vesa, noveau is not longer loading but neither is any nvidia driver |
| 03:32.41 | rant | console is lower res.. nvidia-xsettings says driver isnt loaded |
| 03:32.41 | dvs | maybe there's a needed firmware package? |
| 03:32.50 | dvs | doesn't work with Nvidia |
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| 03:32.59 | rant | only firmware messages were from touchpad and wireless |
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| 03:33.17 | altker128 | If you download and run the driver from nVidia it will usually do all the stuff that's needed |
| 03:33.24 | altker128 | As long as nouveau is blacklisted/isn't loading |
| 03:33.25 | rant | I personally havent worked with nvidia or a t61 in years myself :P |
| 03:33.57 | rant | yeah I'm not going to use 3rd party drivers unless I have to |
| 03:34.06 | altker128 | Good luck. |
| 03:34.14 | rant | the legacy-340xx says it supports this |
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| 03:35.24 | altker128 | tomreyn: One question, even with a UMASK of 077 I see that a permission of g+x -- is that what you'd expect? |
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| 03:37.28 | tomreyn | altker128: groups is usually the users' primary group, so it doesn't do any harm, and it's what i'd expect. |
| 03:37.38 | de-facto | how can i get apt-get output to behave properly in scripts? |
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| 03:37.44 | de-facto | I have lots of (Reading database ... (Reading database ... 5% (Reading database ... 10% (Reading database ... 15% (Reading database ... |
| 03:37.54 | de-facto | and ugly output like this |
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| 03:41.45 | altker128 | tomreyn: Sorry, I meant it shows u+x and I'd expect u-x (0754 if viewed by stat) |
| 03:42.42 | t3st3r | de-facto> maybe apt-get -q <whatever> would do? |
| 03:43.10 | tomreyn | add a q and y to that |
| 03:43.23 | tomreyn | altker128: 0754 is u+rwx |
| 03:43.45 | de-facto | yes i even tried "export DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive && apt-get -qqy install --no-install-recommends ${BUILD_DEPS}" |
| 03:44.22 | de-facto | it seems apt-get itself really is more quiet but those ugly Reading database come maybe from dpkg itself? |
| 03:44.23 | altker128 | ugh, sorry, I meant o-x (others!) |
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| 03:46.00 | tomreyn | altker128: so are you discussing files or directories there? |
| 03:46.16 | altker128 | tomreyn: Directory permissions |
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| 03:46.35 | altker128 | I guess 111111000b -> 254d |
| 03:46.38 | altker128 | I guess 111111000b -> 2542 |
| 03:46.41 | altker128 | I guess 111111000b -> 252d |
| 03:47.19 | de-facto | I mean i dont want to silence it all together like > /dev/null i just want to get rid of those ugly progress reports in my logs |
| 03:48.51 | de-facto | can i just tell dpkg to shutup? |
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| 03:49.56 | tomreyn | altker128: i'm pretty tired, this isnt the best time to discuss ACLs for me. hope someone else can help. also read umask(2) |
| 03:50.14 | altker128 | tomreyn: No worries, thanks for taking the time to help |
| 03:50.34 | tomreyn | ;-) |
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| 03:52.21 | de-facto | maybe "-o Dpkg::Use-Pty=0" ? |
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| 03:55.11 | de-facto | export DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive && apt-get -q update && apt-get -qy -o Dpkg::Use-Pty=0 upgrade && apt-get -qy -o Dpkg::Use-Pty=0 install --no-install-recommends ${BUILD_DEPS} |
| 03:55.17 | de-facto | i think that might work |
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| 04:49.05 | Marz | anyone run testing as their server? |
| 04:49.42 | joepublic | One would hope not, but I suppose it happens. I have testing on a test server, but that's the way that's supposed to work I think. |
| 04:49.57 | zeropoint | Not with anything I care about or expect to be running at any given time, no. |
| 04:50.06 | Marz | stable apps are really old |
| 04:50.09 | Marz | like 3 years |
| 04:50.10 | zeropoint | And? |
| 04:50.21 | joepublic | uh, yes, "Stable" means "not updated to shiny new and untested" |
| 04:51.27 | joepublic | if a server admin needs a newer version of something that debian provides by default, options are available on a case by case basis, of course. |
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| 05:08.26 | furrywolf | Why is debian going with the freedeskop menu system, which is substantially worse-organized than the debian menu system? |
| 05:09.03 | furrywolf | Also, why do half the packages in stable use one and half the other, so you only see half of your programs (and which half varies) under most window managers? |
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| 05:12.30 | furrywolf | this is like... a release-blocking level of idiocy. |
| 05:12.35 | furrywolf | and yet it's in stable. |
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| 06:38.45 | laidback_01 | hello all. I've a general question relating to virtualization. In FreeBSD, i can run bhyve VMs and jails (containers) simultaenously with no ill effects. I'm thinking the same thing can be accomplished with KVM and docker at the same time, right? is there anything saying that I can't run KVM VMs and Docker images on the same machine for different purposes? |
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| 06:41.02 | jmcnaught | both can run at the same time |
| 06:41.13 | laidback_01 | cool, thanks much! |
| 06:41.42 | shtrb | Good Morning people, what would be a good way to backup from inside a VM (stretch) to build a second instance. I backed up /etc , /usr and /home and (dpkg --get-selections|grep -vvv deinstall > /var/backups/packages.list) and intend to prepare reinstall (stretch to stretch) |
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| 06:43.45 | shtrb | Is there anything I have forgot ? |
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| 08:14.13 | Mead | Hello, I'm sorta at loss to find help with this issue and asking here because I don't know where else to ask. I've got a new SteamOS install (which is debian based), I switched to the beta of steam, and let SteamOS update itself. Now it has been sitting at a black screen for quite a while (30+ minutes) with the HDD light flashing about ever 20 seconds. Is it still working or has something |
| 08:14.13 | Mead | failed? |
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| 08:15.41 | diogenes_ | Mead, nvidia proprietary? |
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| 08:16.25 | Mead | might be, there is a nvidia gpu in the machine |
| 08:16.36 | jelly | Mead: #steamOS should be the right channel |
| 08:16.40 | jelly | !steamos |
| 08:16.41 | dpkg | SteamOS is an operating system released by Valve as a gaming platform, based on Debian 7 "Wheezy". It is not supported in #debian, support is available in #steamOS on irc.freenode.net or at http://support.steampowered.com/ . See <based on debian>. |
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| 08:17.03 | Mead | it would be a good channel if there were more active people in it |
| 08:17.24 | Haohmaru | maybe they're busy.. gaming |
| 08:17.57 | jelly | it's a tiny channel, might be 2-3 days before someone comments |
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| 08:18.30 | shtrb | Mead , does ctrl + alt+f1 and ctrl+alt+f7 fix the issue ? |
| 08:19.04 | shtrb | or ctrl+alt+f2/f3/f4 to go back to the X session |
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| 08:19.45 | Mead | well, I got it to pop up a tty login |
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| 08:20.31 | shtrb | and back to the UI ? |
| 08:20.56 | shtrb | the black screen is sometime just X refusing to update the screen |
| 08:21.25 | shtrb | if you came back and get something like screen is locked please bla bla tell us please |
| 08:21.57 | Mead | no, using the ctrl+alt+f2 gets me to a tty2 ctrl + alt + f7 brings back the blank screen |
| 08:22.27 | Haohmaru | did your login manager forgot to start? |
| 08:22.40 | shtrb | he is in mid installation |
| 08:23.17 | Haohmaru | i thought he had it installed (presumably also working) but then it got updated.. |
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| 08:23.58 | Mead | it was installed, and I allowed it to do an automated update. |
| 08:24.26 | Mead | I've got TTY access right now |
| 08:24.53 | shtrb | updates are like cosmetic surgeries, sometimes they are needed but most of the time they just a waste of your time and money and will only give superficial changes |
| 08:25.08 | Haohmaru | wat o_O |
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| 08:25.37 | diogenes_ | hehe take a look at Pamela Anderson before and after the update XD |
| 08:25.45 | Haohmaru | now now |
| 08:26.04 | Mead | update from which version? Early versions were great |
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| 08:26.37 | shtrb | Good Morning people, what would be a good way to backup from inside a VM (stretch) to build a second instance. I backed up /etc , /usr and /home and (dpkg --get-selections|grep -vvv deinstall > /var/backups/packages.list) and intend to prepare reinstall (stretch to stretch) |
| 08:26.38 | Mead | gettin me off topic here |
| 08:26.38 | diogenes_ | before 70s when UNIX was spelled UNICS |
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| 08:29.15 | Mead | so, with tty how can i check on if x running or even restart X if it has an issue? |
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| 08:30.38 | jelly | Mead: ehh, did you try rebooting to see if it gets better |
| 08:30.46 | diogenes_ | shtrb, for backing up and making snaphot of the system, i use this: http://ftp.cc.uoc.gr/mirrors/linux/mx/mx/repo/pool/main/m/mx-snapshot/ |
| 08:31.05 | Mead | nope, I'm worried the update process is still going and forcing a reboot would mess it up |
| 08:33.40 | Mead | what is the best method to force a graceful shutdown/reboot in cli? |
| 08:33.59 | rant | Mead: using the sysrq method doesnt matter where you are cli or gui |
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| 08:34.15 | rant | Mead: if system is responsive a systmctl or init command will work like init 0 |
| 08:34.30 | diogenes_ | Mead, systemctl poweoff/reboot |
| 08:34.36 | diogenes_ | without root |
| 08:34.37 | Haohmaru | hm, i've been using /sbin/reboot and such |
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| 08:36.48 | Mead | reboot is trying to recover from a fatal error... |
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| 08:38.40 | Mead | I knew something was pretty wrong with that update... |
| 08:38.51 | Mead | thanks for your help |
| 08:39.23 | rant | sysrq+alt+key is the sysrq method.. REISUB is a commonly used mantra.. |
| 08:40.17 | rant | R takes raw control of keyboard, E sends SIGTERM to all processes allowing them to close, I sends SIGKILL forcing any remaining processes, S syncs disks, U remounts fs readonly, and B reboots |
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| 08:41.10 | rant | its a way to basically simulate a normal shutdown when SHTF |
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| 08:44.06 | Mead | welp, I think my install is toast, it rebooted from the "SteamOS is attemptint to recover from a fatal error" screen back to it again. Bet it will just keep looping |
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| 08:46.46 | Mead | so what is the issue with the nvidia propietary drivers? They cause problems and can't be fixed by anyone but nvidia? |
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| 08:49.23 | daniv | hi, do you get a white background for sddm-kde in testing for several days.. it still remains functional however |
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| 09:06.15 | shtrb | diogenes_, thanks will look on it |
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| 09:10.42 | Fox | !debian-next |
| 09:10.43 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 09:10.52 | Fox | daniv: ^ |
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| 09:11.42 | Klaus_Dieter | having looked at my screensaver config today I noticed how far along Linux has come in the last 15 years. It is really amazing that now the required settings integrate nicely. suspending works (it didn't used to a few years back). this is really cool and also this is thanks to projects like debian. <3 |
| 09:12.11 | Klaus_Dieter | and the Open source community in general. |
| 09:12.35 | Mead | except for all the needless forking |
| 09:14.37 | daniv | Fox: oh sorry! |
| 09:14.45 | Fox | daniv: no problem :) |
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| 09:20.25 | Klaus_Dieter | Mead: I guess development could be more efficient. |
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| 09:23.35 | Mead | Klaus_Dieter: it is a double edge sword, on one side it gives you a multitude of choice, on the otherside it makes things more difficult with so many major distros and derivitives being developed in parallel. |
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| 09:24.19 | blackflow | I'd say it's more thanks to projects like..... power management and desktop environments. Debian is "just" packaging stuff up. Also... like 15y ago, it still today depends on the hardware. Mostly what got better is hardware support and more of it works. |
| 09:24.42 | blackflow | Plenty of "Oh, shi-! this laptop doesn't work with linux properly" |
| 09:28.15 | Haohmaru | i do have suspend issues with debian and old PCs + old nvidia cards |
| 09:28.17 | Mead | of course, that was because consumer hardware manufactures 15 years ago didn't give a flip to support linux, since 99% or more of the users were just using the Microsoft OS that their computers shipped with |
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| 09:29.06 | blackflow | Microsoft froze the hell over with their sudden interest to support linux and foss |
| 09:29.42 | Mead | microsoft actually has a UNIX distro at one point |
| 09:29.46 | Mead | err had |
| 09:29.57 | Haohmaru | moar like.. get in and pull some jenga blocks from the bottom while nobody's looking |
| 09:30.35 | Haohmaru | they also bought teh github, didn't they? |
| 09:30.37 | Mead | before they released NT they were selling unix to businesses |
| 09:30.47 | Klaus_Dieter | blackflow: I think it is both: the software has to be made accessible which is done by distributions. And it must maintained and developed which is done by the kernel folks, the project teams like DE. |
| 09:31.26 | blackflow | Klaus_Dieter: oh sure, the ecosystem entirely. |
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| 09:35.01 | Klaus_Dieter | that being said - I have moved more and more away from full-blown desktop environments and into the world of CLI for almost everything I do. The only exception in day to day use is browsing th web. Other than that, Xorg = terminal multiplexer. |
| 09:36.40 | Mead | heh, I remember when the world moved away from using a terminal interface and moved to the GUI |
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| 09:37.05 | Klaus_Dieter | yeah. back then KDE was what the cool kids used. |
| 09:37.38 | Klaus_Dieter | or are you talking a few years before thatand referring to the os2 / dos => windows transition? |
| 09:38.04 | Mead | more like when Microsoft was pushing the "DOS is Dead" montra when windows 95 came out |
| 09:38.13 | Klaus_Dieter | ah yes. that was huge |
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| 09:39.09 | Mead | I was an old DOS gamer back in late 1980's and early 1990's. |
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| 09:40.35 | Haohmaru | mah first comput0r woz win98 |
| 09:40.36 | Mead | so it was sorta a shock to me "why load this heavy GUI when I want to give all the system resources to a game instead" |
| 09:41.50 | Mead | the real game changer for PC gaming was plug and play hardware and directx, no longer having to configure irq and DMA for hardware and software was great. |
| 09:44.10 | altker128 | A220 I7 D1 |
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| 11:03.21 | Greyztar | is kernel mode and user mode the same as kernel space and user space? |
| 11:03.46 | Greyztar | wrong channel sorry |
| 11:06.01 | Haohmaru | busted! |
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| 12:52.08 | pclover | So need some advise on the best way to apporach an issue with mdadm i created. |
| 12:52.23 | pclover | Forgot to plug in a hard drive part of a mirror and mdadm shows the drive is now removed and refuses to let me re-add it. |
| 12:53.11 | pclover | I suppose i'll have to remove the disk form the array and re-add it... |
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| 12:54.51 | pclover | got sidetracked with dust in a CPU socket causing it not to post :) |
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| 13:00.26 | blackflow | pclover: it's not clear from what you posted, what exactly you did. what's the raid level? what members are there? can you also pastebin /proc/mdstat? |
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| 13:01.31 | pclover | blackflow, sorry for being vague bit tired. It's a RAID-1 and i was doing some system upgrades and required me to unplug some drives. I powered on the system and forgot to plug in one of the drives that are part of the array. |
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| 13:02.15 | blackflow | pclover: did it not recognize the drive when you plugged it back in? |
| 13:02.33 | pclover | it did not |
| 13:02.46 | pclover | and it tells me a re-add is not possible |
| 13:03.05 | blackflow | can you pastebin /proc/mdstat? |
| 13:03.15 | pclover | give me a second |
| 13:03.22 | blackflow | did you just unplug the drive, or did you explicitly drop it from the array first? |
| 13:03.43 | pclover | i just booted the machine with only one drive that was part of the array |
| 13:03.58 | pclover | since the 2nd wasn't plugged in upon boot |
| 13:04.07 | pclover | so it seems mdadm sees this as a drive failure |
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| 13:06.47 | pclover | blackflow, https://paste.debian.net/1068700/ |
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| 13:07.30 | pclover | if i try to re-add /dev/sdc1 i get this mdadm: --re-add for /dev/sdc1 to /dev/md0 is not possible |
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| 13:08.07 | pclover | so i'm thinking i am going to have to remove the drive form the array and re-build it |
| 13:08.09 | blackflow | pclover: try --fail(ing) it first |
| 13:08.41 | blackflow | also how are you trying to re-add it exactly? what command? |
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| 13:09.51 | pclover | mdadm --manage /dev/md0 --re-add /dev/sdc1 |
| 13:10.02 | pclover | trying to manually fail it says device does not exist |
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| 13:11.36 | blackflow | pclover: can you pastebin mdadm --detail /dev/md0 please? |
| 13:12.32 | pclover | https://paste.debian.net/1068701/ |
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| 13:15.22 | pclover | blackflow, well i just used -add instead of --re-add and it says it's rebuilding now |
| 13:15.24 | foldy | hi please do you know how to revert back upgrade from deb9u4 back to deb9u3 especial libc6:amd64 2.24-11+deb9u3 2.24-11+deb9u4 |
| 13:15.32 | jelly | pclover: just use --add, --re-add is mostly useful when you have a write bitmap on the array so that it takes less time to sync up (it syncs only differences) |
| 13:15.34 | RandomSerb | hi. I'm trying to execute a bash script on my debian server via php, and it's not working as expected. How would I debug why PHP didn't exec the script. /var/log/messages says nothing useful |
| 13:15.46 | pclover | jelly, lol right on queue |
| 13:15.58 | jelly | ha |
| 13:16.42 | blackflow | pclover: technically --add will add a spare and force full resilver, which would be the last resort. I was gonna suggest you stop the array and force reassemble, but if this works, then fine |
| 13:16.47 | jelly | RandomSerb: can you run some other command, like /bin/ls, using the same method? |
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| 13:17.31 | jelly | foldy: you'd have to pick it from snapshot.debian.org, but why do you want to do that? |
| 13:17.33 | linuxconformer | hey guys, i've got a server running which i've suddenly not been abled to ssh into |
| 13:17.40 | linuxconformer | any idea what could be wrong? |
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| 13:18.13 | joepublic | could be aliens, criminals, a network problem, might not be actually as "running" as you think, could be the singularity. |
| 13:18.14 | foldy | jelly we have grat mailserver blackbox and that upgrade destroys it, so I must revert last apt upgrade |
| 13:18.32 | joepublic | lotsa idea. |
| 13:19.01 | joepublic | would you be willing to describe what you did, what you expected, what happened instead? |
| 13:19.16 | joepublic | sometimes that helps. |
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| 13:20.40 | linuxconformer | joepublic: i haven't touched it in a week or so, but the website suddenly gave a 203 error, and now i can't ssh into it |
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| 13:21.22 | joepublic | What an odd http error to encounter |
| 13:22.07 | joepublic | is it a VPS? Sometimes those have a solus control panel option that lets you ssh into a serial terminal |
| 13:22.10 | linuxconformer | joepublic: in the logs, it's saying it said something about "failed to ... systemd/ap.service" |
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| 13:22.22 | linuxconformer | joepublic: yeah it's on a VPS |
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| 13:22.32 | linuxconformer | *app.service |
| 13:22.37 | linuxconformer | which is a systemd service i created |
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| 13:22.58 | RandomSerb | jelly, I've a shebang for /bin/sh in the script |
| 13:23.06 | RandomSerb | btw, from console it works just fine |
| 13:23.12 | RandomSerb | but not with PHP's exec() |
| 13:23.37 | RandomSerb | so, in error log, I only get [:error] [pid 27409] [client ... |
| 13:23.46 | RandomSerb | and the referrer but not the actual error |
| 13:23.57 | \\Mr_C\\ | debian rox |
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| 13:26.58 | RandomSerb | ok, permissions |
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| 13:30.45 | linuxconformer | anyone know what might be wrong? |
| 13:31.24 | linuxconformer | why can't i ssh into my VPS for example? |
| 13:32.12 | RandomSerb | what kind of issues do you experience? |
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| 13:32.18 | RandomSerb | any errors? |
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| 13:33.14 | linuxconformer | so i can access the vps via openstack console |
| 13:33.32 | RandomSerb | as which user? |
| 13:33.35 | linuxconformer | root |
| 13:33.57 | linuxconformer | i've been ssh'ing into it every time since now, but now it wont work for some bizarre reason |
| 13:34.00 | RandomSerb | and if you try ssh myuser@mywebsite.com, what happens? |
| 13:34.28 | RandomSerb | does it prompt you with user's password input? |
| 13:34.30 | bomb-on | hi all! i have a problem with some website which is simply not showing up to one debian/firefox user, but i have a hard time figuring out why is that exactly... |
| 13:34.40 | bomb-on | hehe RandomSerb dobar niknejm ;) |
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| 13:35.00 | bomb-on | so, let me quickly explain the problem... |
| 13:35.11 | bomb-on | debian version is: 4.9.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.130-2 (2018-10-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 13:35.11 | RandomSerb | bomb-on, did that very user try with chrome/debian ? |
| 13:35.28 | bomb-on | firefox version is: 65.0.1 (64-bit) |
| 13:35.44 | linuxconformer | RandomSerb: it's just hanging when i try to ssh now |
| 13:35.53 | jelly | !debian suite |
| 13:35.53 | dpkg | cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions. |
| 13:35.59 | bomb-on | RandomSerb not with chrome, but apparently it works on palemoon browser |
| 13:36.02 | jelly | bomb-on: that's just a kernel version |
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| 13:36.25 | RandomSerb | linuxconformer, so, if you type that in your terminal and press enter, it stalls? |
| 13:36.27 | jelly | where did you get a firefox 65 build from? |
| 13:36.27 | bomb-on | jelly ah, right, i didn't even notice ^^ will ask him again |
| 13:36.37 | bomb-on | jelly will ask that too, give me a min :) |
| 13:36.41 | jelly | ,v firefox-esr |
| 13:36.42 | judd | Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.1.0esr-1~bpo80+1; wheezy-security: 52.8.0esr-1~deb7u1; jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; sid: 60.4.0esr-1; stretch: 60.5.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 60.5.0esr-1; stretch-security: 60.5.1esr-1~deb9u1 |
| 13:36.54 | linuxconformer | RandomSerb: yeah. doing -vvv gives "debug1: connection to example.com [x.x.x.x] port 22" |
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| 13:37.00 | jelly | 60.5esr is what is in Debian 9 |
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| 13:37.32 | subcool | Hey, so im tring to boot with hypervision, but when i do with the kernel. It "crashes"/system halts and my computer usualy needs its cmos cleared before its turns on again. |
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| 13:38.01 | RandomSerb | linuxconformer, do you use ufw? |
| 13:38.06 | bomb-on | essentially, what's happening is that this particular user is getting an error: TypeError: "appCache is undefined" |
| 13:38.14 | RandomSerb | or iptables, or anything that may restrict access? |
| 13:38.17 | linuxconformer | RandomSerb: don't think i've touched it |
| 13:38.18 | bomb-on | and i'm not really sure why is this happening and how to solve it |
| 13:38.39 | RandomSerb | linuxconformer, what if you try ssh root@... from your terminal |
| 13:38.40 | RandomSerb | ? |
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| 13:39.14 | RandomSerb | aslo, when you login as root, via that console thingy, try iptables -S |
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| 13:43.40 | linuxconformer | RandomSerb: i can't type the "-" character |
| 13:43.50 | linuxconformer | when using openstack console to access my instance |
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| 13:43.55 | RandomSerb | you can't paste? |
| 13:44.39 | RandomSerb | also what kind of console is that, how are you supposed to use any command that requires parameters, as 95%+ of them do? |
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| 13:45.41 | linuxconformer | RandomSerb: i think it's because set to a german keyboard layout, but when i type "-" it displays as "7" |
| 13:46.03 | RandomSerb | can you paste? |
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| 13:46.58 | linuxconformer | i don't think so... |
| 13:47.13 | RandomSerb | would it be to much of me to ask you to try? |
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| 13:48.02 | ksk | linuxconformer: you just have to find the right key :> |
| 13:48.08 | jelly | linuxconformer: run "loadkeys us" to set US layout |
| 13:48.10 | linuxconformer | RandomSerb: of course i tried, what i meant to say was it might possible, i just have no idea how |
| 13:48.35 | RandomSerb | shift+insert? or simple right click? try those |
| 13:48.36 | linuxconformer | "cannot open file us" |
| 13:48.42 | ksk | eg, to insert "|" into a Dell Remote Access Console I used the keycode ;) |
| 13:49.44 | jelly | linuxconformer: ouch, is that some sort of recovery image booted or initramfs or what |
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| 13:50.11 | linuxconformer | jelly: no idea, could be |
| 13:50.27 | linuxconformer | i've just all of a sudden been locked out of ssh |
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| 13:50.35 | linuxconformer | been working no problem for months |
| 13:52.25 | jelly | linuxconformer: what does "uptime" say, did the system reboot |
| 13:53.46 | linuxconformer | man i can't even use vim |
| 13:53.54 | linuxconformer | let me check |
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| 13:55.13 | ksk | german keyboard? try "ö" for : |
| 13:56.14 | randy408 | is this the right channel for debian security/cve related questions? |
| 13:56.50 | linuxconformer | ksk: not sure how, my laptop keyboard is set to english, but the console is set to german |
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| 13:57.44 | ksk | randy408: sure. |
| 13:57.57 | ksk | linuxconformer: mhm then Im out, sorry :> just try pressing all the keys.. |
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| 13:58.11 | linuxconformer | ksk: tried that too :( |
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| 14:00.34 | subcool | It has to be something stupid silly. Its worked before. |
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| 14:01.25 | milkt | linuxconformer: have you made any recent system change? can you ping to vps? |
| 14:01.36 | milkt | is ssh daemon running? |
| 14:01.54 | linuxconformer | milkt: not recent, i created a new systemd service a week or two ago, but that's it |
| 14:02.06 | linuxconformer | i've found the - button btw |
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| 14:02.39 | randy408 | i want to submit new CVEs privately and fairly quickly, i see it's done through CNA's, if my package gets into Debian i could use Debian as a CNA for submitting CVE's for that package, which means Debian will assign CVE IDs in a reasonable timeframe, right? |
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| 14:04.05 | linuxconformer | ok i can't even apt-get install |
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| 14:04.26 | linuxconformer | "Temporary failure resolving deb.debian.org" |
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| 14:05.00 | linuxconformer | this is ridiculous |
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| 14:05.47 | milkt | linuxconformer: can you access internet with that vps? |
| 14:06.05 | linuxconformer | milkt: apparently not |
| 14:06.18 | linuxconformer | ping google.com gives "temporary failure in name resolution" |
| 14:06.48 | milkt | how about with ip, 172.217.5.78 |
| 14:07.58 | milkt | or 8.8.8.8 or something |
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| 14:08.10 | linuxconformer | "network is unreachable" |
| 14:08.12 | dvs | 1.1.1.1! |
| 14:08.41 | jelly | linuxconformer: what does "ps -fp $$" say? |
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| 14:09.34 | jelly | linuxconformer: it sounds like network is not configured properly. Did you show output of "uptime", I missed it? |
| 14:09.56 | linuxconformer | jelly: "15 mins", but i restarted it manually |
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| 14:14.45 | linuxconformer | am i screwed? |
| 14:14.55 | linuxconformer | i don't get why this has happened all of a sudden |
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| 14:16.18 | milkt | is there any information about network problem, from your vps provider? can you make backup of instance through that console or something? |
| 14:16.30 | linuxconformer | milkt: it's self-hosted openstack |
| 14:16.42 | linuxconformer | thing is, i have another vps running, but there are no issues with it |
| 14:17.04 | linuxconformer | i can ssh into it fine, no problems |
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| 15:00.56 | linuxconformer | you guys here? |
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| 15:01.42 | mtn | !ask |
| 15:01.42 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 15:01.52 | ksk | you have a selfhosted vps, that does not have internet connectivity - besides that, you did not really provide any information as far as I can tell |
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| 15:02.23 | ksk | can you ping your gateway, do you have the right ip inside container..? |
| 15:02.32 | linuxconformer | i think this could be the problem -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1531880 |
| 15:03.03 | linuxconformer | i'm getting this error -> "IsADirectoryError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/var/lib/cloud/instance'" |
| 15:03.18 | linuxconformer | apparently it's caused by the order of cloud-init services being wrong |
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| 15:03.31 | linuxconformer | (no idea why this is only happening now, but w/e) |
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| 15:03.43 | linuxconformer | is there a way to manually set the order of this services? |
| 15:03.50 | ksk | does not sound too debianish to me? |
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| 15:04.25 | ksk | if you are running ubuntu with cloud-init, then try the ubuntu spoort channels please. |
| 15:04.59 | linuxconformer | it's debian |
| 15:05.06 | linuxconformer | stretch |
| 15:05.18 | linuxconformer | why would i post it here if it was ubuntu...? |
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| 15:06.56 | cusco | linuxconformer: because you reffered ubuntu links |
| 15:07.09 | ksk | nevermind then :) |
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| 15:07.32 | ksk | I have no Idea, the proposed solution does not sound too invasive though, so I would give it a shot |
| 15:07.42 | linuxconformer | it's a systemd thing, debianalso uses sysytemd just in case your weren't aware |
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| 15:07.53 | cusco | we are probably aware |
| 15:08.11 | blackflow | bugs.launchpad.net tracks debian issues too btw |
| 15:08.17 | linuxconformer | ksk: right, is there a way to manually order services? don't have much experience with systemd |
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| 15:08.47 | cusco | linuxconformer: but the bug on that url is from a ubuntu sttance |
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| 15:09.10 | cusco | it is just frequent to have ubuntu asking help here.. |
| 15:09.19 | ksk | linuxconformer: the units cloud-init etc should come with a systemd unit file, and in there are statemens like "BEFORE=unitname" and "AFTER=unitname" - I think you would need to change these values in all the units mentioned there |
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| 15:09.36 | linuxconformer | cusco: i know it's hard to use critical thought to approach a problem, but sometimes it's required |
| 15:10.26 | ksk | copy the unit file shipped from the app (/usr/lib/sytem/ iirc) to /etc/systemd/system/ and alter them there - they will take priority over the ones stored by packages (dont forget to daemon-reload) |
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| 15:10.46 | iovec | (or just use systemctl edit --full foobar.service) |
| 15:11.05 | ksk | iovec: what does that do? store a copy of the service in etc? |
| 15:11.48 | ksk | it seems. nice! |
| 15:12.01 | ksk | systemd all the things. |
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| 15:15.36 | _m4ch1n3_ | yeah its so f*** big it will take forever to go through documentation |
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| 15:17.14 | ksk | compared to getting through documentation of the 300 prorams it replaces it does not really matter :P |
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| 15:29.23 | linuxconformer | ksk: hmm i really don't understand this erorr |
| 15:29.44 | linuxconformer | why would it suddenly appear after many months? |
| 15:30.27 | _m4ch1n3_ | how can I list all Xresources that an Xapplication supports? e.g urxvt? |
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| 15:31.54 | _m4ch1n3_ | is there a tool for that? orr is that from xapplication to another uniq |
| 15:32.09 | blackflow | linuxconformer: been going throug the backlog, but can you tl;dr your problem for me? |
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| 15:32.56 | linuxconformer | blackflow: yeah sure, so basically my server stops running today (203) and i'm no longer able to ssh into it. And i think the problem is this error here (from journalctl) -> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wQdT6JqrC3/ |
| 15:33.24 | linuxconformer | also a bug report about it -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1796875 |
| 15:33.40 | linuxconformer | and another -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1531880 |
| 15:34.03 | blackflow | you mentioned you could reach the server through the VM console? can you look up journalctl -p err ? |
| 15:34.11 | linuxconformer | so for some reason this /var/lib/cloud/instance has become a directory, when it should be a symlink |
| 15:34.19 | linuxconformer | yeah sure, one sec |
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| 15:35.13 | blackflow | and for what are you using cloud-init anyway? is it really a dynamic env that requires it? |
| 15:38.21 | linuxconformer | blackflow: here you go -> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MC8bTB3jrg/ |
| 15:38.58 | linuxconformer | blackflow: not a concious choice, but i think it might be provided by openstack's debian VM |
| 15:39.02 | linuxconformer | s/VM/image |
| 15:39.47 | blackflow | linuxconformer: line 4..... can you look up journalctl -u nginx.service? what failure does it report? |
| 15:40.26 | blackflow | there's also dns issues and something ntpd? did you type those up? if you have a working network there you can pastebin |
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| 15:43.39 | linuxconformer | blackflow: the ntpd lines are just about failure to resolve dns i think |
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| 15:47.09 | linuxconformer | blackflow: now i can't even boot the instance |
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| 15:48.06 | blackflow | linuxconformer: why? what does the console report? |
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| 15:49.19 | linuxconformer | the console just shut off, and now when i try to start it again, it threw an error (can't remember what it said, have to check) |
| 15:50.04 | blackflow | linuxconformer: important to know, whether cloud-init corrupted something, or you've got hardware issues there and/or corrupt filesystem |
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| 15:51.45 | linuxconformer | blackflow: trying to boot another instance from a saved snapshot |
| 15:52.46 | linuxconformer | blackflow: wow ok it's way faster now |
| 15:52.51 | linuxconformer | (in the console) |
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| 15:54.26 | linuxconformer | this is so strange |
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| 15:55.15 | linuxconformer | blackflow: and now i can access the internet... |
| 15:55.28 | linuxconformer | (from this restored snapshot) |
| 15:56.37 | blackflow | linuxconformer: sounds like your previous disk image was corrupt then |
| 15:56.39 | blackflow | just a guess |
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| 16:02.45 | linuxconformer | blackflow: weird, didn't even know that was possble |
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| 16:04.26 | blackflow | linuxconformer: well unless you think virtual hardware is powered by actual, fulffy clouds and not physical hardware :) a disk image is just a region of a hard disk anyway. so yeah very much corruptible |
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| 16:08.31 | linuxconformer | blackflow: true, i've just never experienced it before so i guess i thought it would never happen to me :P |
| 16:09.40 | blackflow | linuxconformer: you haven't lived through cloud meltdown until every run of md5sum on any file returns different sum :) been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt. |
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| 16:12.26 | linuxconformer | blackflow: lol hope i never have to experience it |
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| 16:16.45 | linuxconformer | blackflow: getting the same probelm on my rebooted snapshot... |
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| 16:19.34 | blackflow | linuxconformer: back to alternative then: cloud-init frakking thing sup |
| 16:20.13 | blackflow | or maybe that's just a red herring. you really need to examine each of hte processes that's failing, look at their logs. there was nginx failing to start and you never pastebinned that log |
| 16:20.25 | linuxconformer | i might try a new instance (rather than force it with this snapshot) |
| 16:20.53 | blackflow | linuxconformer: it's moot unless you investigate why/how it's failing |
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| 17:29.48 | Mead | welp I think I figured out what went wrong yesterday, it was an issue with my now "legacy" nvidia gpu and drivers |
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| 17:35.07 | Mead | what is the difference between the nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver and the Nouveau driver? |
| 17:35.57 | jelly | ,v nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver |
| 17:35.58 | judd | Package: nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver on amd64 -- sid/non-free: 390.87-4; stretch-backports/non-free: 390.87-6~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 390.87-6 |
| 17:36.04 | randy408 | nouveau is open source, the other one is nvidia's proprietary driver |
| 17:36.55 | Mead | yeah, I get that. What is the difference in how they allow software to use the gpu? |
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| 17:39.48 | joepublic | no one may know, because nvidia's is proprietary. |
| 17:40.32 | Mead | well, does one allow games and apps get better performance than the other? |
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| 17:47.27 | klh | Mead: performances are better with nvidiabgbgabgbgbmdddmmp${offset 4}${offset 4} |
| 17:47.36 | klh | oops sorry |
| 17:47.54 | klh | display bug in my irc client |
| 17:48.08 | Mead | it is all good, I know how propietary drivers can trigger linux guys/gals |
| 17:48.10 | blackflow | Mead: one publicly known gripe with nouveau is something about inability to reclock so the games run very much slower |
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| 17:48.40 | blackflow | or should I say publicly known proprietary feature missing in nouveau |
| 17:48.54 | Mead | blackflow: thank you, that is the type of info I was looking for |
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| 17:51.19 | Mead | so how to I tell it to install that specific 390xx driver? when doing apt update it pops open a window sayint to use the update-glx command but not specifically how ot use it or if I have to download the driver manually. |
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| 17:52.08 | kion | Does anyone know a good litecoin wallet for debian? |
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| 17:54.42 | blackflow | Mead: in Stretch `nvidia-driver` package is at version 390.87 -- is that what you need? that's the LTS version btw |
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| 18:07.19 | Mead | hurm... so apt update is trying to instal 396.54 that is why I keep getting the error |
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| 18:10.18 | blackflow | Mead: from where? Can you pastebin `apt-cache policy nvidia-driver` |
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| 18:49.06 | Mead | blackflow: I can tell you where, from the valve's steamos repo. I am asking in here because the steamOS channel is pretty much dead and forgotten, and steamos is based on debian. |
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| 18:51.34 | blackflow | yeah I figured that's not debian. all I can tell you is install nvidia-driver but that wouldn't apply to you would it, you ain't usin' Debian |
| 18:51.52 | blackflow | so what kind of help would you expect since you can't apply the solutions. |
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| 18:54.02 | Mead | https://pastebin.com/vqRyjd8S |
| 18:54.36 | blackflow | Mead: install nvidia-driver if you want 390.87 in Debian Stretch. that's all. |
| 18:55.43 | Mead | I know it aint debian, but is is based on it. Working with the CLI is pretty much the same when it comes to syntax and etc. |
| 18:55.49 | Mead | err it is |
| 18:57.03 | SerajewelKS | !based on debian |
| 18:57.03 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
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| 18:58.14 | Mead | well thanks what help you you've given me anyway, and it has been more than helpful. |
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| 18:58.20 | blackflow | Mead: well see that's the thing. The solution in Debian for nvidia driver v390 is to install the nvidia-driver package. so your theory of "but it's based on" is totally wrong. |
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| 19:03.09 | randy408 | lol why would someone use steamos in current year |
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| 20:06.06 | bmomjian | I am running gxmessage from a boot script and it is generating a kernel log message like this. Any idea on the cause? What is "trap 3"? traps: gxmessage[3081] trap int3 |
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| 20:07.11 | bmomjian | gxmessage runs fine when not run from a boot script. |
| 20:09.19 | SerajewelKS | bmomjian: that's a debugger trap |
| 20:09.41 | SerajewelKS | bmomjian: basically it's crashing, which i would expect. how are you expecting to show a GTK+ dialog when the X server isn't running? |
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| 20:10.58 | bmomjian | I set the -display setting to the display of a laptop, not the boot system, and this is done 15 seconds after rc.local is run. I tried 30 seconds but still got the error. |
| 20:11.14 | bmomjian | This is remote X11. |
| 20:11.24 | SerajewelKS | you've verified that this works from a console? |
| 20:11.26 | bmomjian | (everyone gasps) ;-) |
| 20:11.33 | SerajewelKS | is this boot script running before the network comes up? |
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| 20:12.24 | bmomjian | Good question on the network. I am unclear exactly when rc.local runs but I put a 15 second delay in there so it was up. Maybe I need more, or how can I trigger when everything is up? |
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| 20:13.10 | bmomjian | This just started happening on an upgrade from Jessie to Stretch, so it is very possible it is a network timing issue. I just haven't figured out how to trigger only after the network is up. |
| 20:14.04 | dvs | I thought this was a strength of systemd |
| 20:14.05 | SerajewelKS | the best bet is not to use rc.local at all but use a proper systemd service, which you can configure to depend on the network |
| 20:14.23 | SerajewelKS | rc.local should never be used in production |
| 20:14.36 | SerajewelKS | it's an antiquated hack |
| 20:14.41 | bmomjian | Oh, OK. These are old scripts. |
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| 20:15.40 | Deihmos | Debian doesn’t include kernel live patch? |
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| 20:18.36 | SerajewelKS | live patching is a pandora's box that no sane sysadmin should open. it doesn't even always work. e.g. changes to kernel structures can't be patched. |
| 20:19.15 | Deihmos | I see. |
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| 20:19.31 | Deihmos | I saw it on Ubuntu server. Thought Debian also had it |
| 20:19.33 | SerajewelKS | if you need 100% uptime there are better solutions, such as automatic failover with multiple servers, or load balancing where you can take servers out of rotation while they are rebooted. |
| 20:20.21 | Deihmos | I just have a media server with plex and other stuff |
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| 20:20.41 | SerajewelKS | i have one of those too. rebooting it is fine. kernel updates are fairly rare. |
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| 20:21.10 | SerajewelKS | if you can't reboot it at the moment because someone is watching stuff, you can always "shutdown -r 03:00" to schedule a reboot at 3AM |
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| 20:22.11 | Deihmos | I was trying to get the motd to tel me when there is an update when I login just like Ubuntu. Turns out it isn’t that easy |
| 20:22.30 | SerajewelKS | why not just subscribe to the DSA mailing list |
| 20:22.50 | SerajewelKS | !dsa |
| 20:22.50 | dpkg | [dsa] Debian Security Announcement, see http://www.debian.org/security/ and http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/ ; RSS feeds at http://www.debian.org/security/dsa (titles only) and http://www.debian.org/security/dsa-long (summaries). Ask me about <dsa lookup DSA-nnnn> for information about the packages affected. See also <tracker of doom>, <debsecan>, <dsa team>. |
| 20:23.04 | Deihmos | App updates too |
| 20:23.06 | SerajewelKS | neat, there's even an RSS feed |
| 20:23.16 | SerajewelKS | define "app" |
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| 20:43.24 | MACscr | can i simply remove mysql-apt-config from my debian system if i dont want to get prompted for versions, etc, every time i do a apt dist-upgrade and their is a mysql upgrade? |
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| 20:47.26 | MACscr | also, Is there any advice for upgrading from 7.1 to 7.2 (im using the sury repo) and making sure all the same php packages and settings are installed that 7.1 had? i hate having to fiddle with the php.ini settings on every upgrade, etc |
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| 21:00.01 | treehug88 | There's a package in buster and sid that's out of date from he upstream released version, and an upgrade request has been filed in a debian bug report. Is there anything an upstream maintainer can do to help this package to get updated? The bugreport has had no activity in 1 month. |
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| 21:05.15 | treehug88 | For example, can a user submit a patch to upgrade the version in debian, or somehow help an automated process to assist the package upgrade? |
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| 21:13.53 | bmomjian | You were right that the gxmessage kernel error was related to the network being down. |
| 21:14.17 | karlpinc | MACscr: You probably want to be messing with the debconf configuration so that you don't get prompts. See "man 7 debconf". That would be "dpkg-reconfigure debconf". Alternately, "DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt dist-upgrade" would do it on a one-time basis. |
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| 21:14.52 | MACscr | karlpinc thanks |
| 21:15.54 | karlpinc | MACscr: If you're using a non-debian repo, you're not running debian and you're kind of out of luck when it comes to support. (Also, try typing "/msg dpkg frankendebian" in this irc channel.) |
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| 21:20.15 | karlpinc | !tell treehug88 about debian-mentors |
| 21:20.33 | karlpinc | treehug88: I'm pretty sure there is, but I don't know more. |
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| 21:21.09 | karlpinc | ,v mysql |
| 21:21.10 | judd | No package named 'mysql' was found in amd64. |
| 21:21.33 | karlpinc | ,v mysql-server |
| 21:21.34 | judd | Package: mysql-server on amd64 -- wheezy: 5.5.47-0+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 5.5.60-0+deb7u1; jessie: 5.5.60-0+deb8u1; stretch: 5.5.9999+default; sid: 5.7.24-3 |
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| 21:22.16 | karlpinc | ,v php |
| 21:22.18 | judd | Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 2:7.3+69; sid: 2:7.3+69 |
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| 21:33.57 | corner_cubicle | Why does Debian still autostart services after installing a package? |
| 21:34.10 | format_c | ? |
| 21:34.38 | corner_cubicle | If you install postfix, debian will also start the postfix service before I'm done configuring it |
| 21:35.27 | corner_cubicle | Granted, you can configure it via debconf. But I still have other stuff to add to main.cf before I start postfix. I wish Debian would stop doing this |
| 21:35.45 | Ede|Popede | also would encourage changing of this policy |
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| 21:36.26 | format_c | Good question. I think because the maintainer thinks when you want to install it, you'd also have it started. Normally there is a minimal configuration during dpkg --configure for some of the packages. I'm only familiar with exim4, however there, only minimal config is done. |
| 21:36.32 | Ede|Popede | someone installing servers on debian should be able to start them manually after configuration |
| 21:37.01 | format_c | but I haven't felt this too dangerous since I could adjust the config right after installing. |
| 21:37.35 | corner_cubicle | If I'm using a relay server, I'd also want to set the SASL configuration to connect to the relay server. I don't think you can configure SASL credentials via debconf |
| 21:37.37 | karlpinc | The counter argument is that "most" installs are simple and assume that the user does want something running.... |
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| 21:37.51 | format_c | Ede|Popede: good point. Let see if somebody from the project can answer |
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| 21:38.55 | corner_cubicle | Or there should be an option to disable this behaviour in apt.conf.d |
| 21:39.20 | corner_cubicle | Using policy-rc.d seems like a really roundabout way to acheive this |
| 21:39.22 | format_c | it's the old clash between the ones who'd like to see Linux footprint (especially on the desktop area) beeing extended while the hard cores don't want to have numbs around. |
| 21:39.33 | karlpinc | Maybe a debconf prompt that asks if the service should be enabled/started? |
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| 21:39.40 | Ede|Popede | france does something regarding IoT devices. could become expensive in the future to make them capable of running with a default configuration (read: user="admin" pass="" and similar) |
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| 21:40.05 | Ede|Popede | this approach is the sane one. FIRST configure, THEN start |
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| 21:40.28 | format_c | The correct name is Internet of shitty things. |
| 21:40.48 | karlpinc | Ede|Popede: Sure. What we're talking here is how _much_ configuration. |
| 21:41.16 | Ede|Popede | karlpinc: or even a config file in /etc/default with lines as simple as "${pck}conf=$path" or "${pck}=autorun,$conf" or similar |
| 21:41.29 | format_c | But this would be the maintainer's task to capture the inital password setting within the configuration step like mysql-server |
| 21:42.08 | corner_cubicle | karlpinc: I don't think any other distro starts the service automatically after installing. Is this a legacy behaviour from Debian's pre-systemd days? |
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| 21:42.51 | format_c | corner_cubicle: really? |
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| 21:43.08 | corner_cubicle | I'm not sure about this. I'm just guessing |
| 21:43.08 | karlpinc | I think debian has always started its MTA if you install one. At least since sarge or so which is as far back as I go. Which brings up the backward compatibility issue. |
| 21:43.21 | Ede|Popede | karlpinc: i'm not in the mood to treat linux like i'd probably do with windows. adding lot of snakeoil and an extra firewall and what not because you never know what some running driver does: opening a backdoor, phoning home, whatever. and at least the decision if "*" or "localhost" is to be made. a server setup in a small company may differ from a home desktop |
| 21:43.46 | Ede|Popede | MTA for bug reporting purpose? |
| 21:44.34 | format_c | I think in regard to MTA, Debian is really special from the beginning. However to me it appeared to be a differnt way to make the system able to send outbound emails w/o having a relay available. |
| 21:44.42 | jmcnaught | if you know the name of the service you are installing and don't want it to start automatically you can always mask the service beforehand |
| 21:44.51 | karlpinc | Ede|Popede: Unix always (historically) comes with a running MTA, for reporting on cron job output etc. Even if the mail is only ever delivered locally. |
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| 21:44.53 | Ede|Popede | aha?! |
| 21:44.56 | Ede|Popede | wakes up |
| 21:46.03 | karlpinc | jmcnaught: That only sorta works if you're not doing an initial install though. |
| 21:46.16 | Ede|Popede | karlpinc: local is ok. what i never liked is only having servers listen to the world. i bet a lot of users new to debian or the whole linux thing may not be aware from the beginning. and only let them install while there is an unknown 0day around |
| 21:47.20 | karlpinc | Ede|Popede: Is local the default? I can't recall. |
| 21:47.22 | corner_cubicle | Ede|Popede: I think by default postfix only listens on the loopback interface. So that's not an issue |
| 21:47.51 | Ede|Popede | i'll check it as soon as i'm ready to install on that other machine. promised. |
| 21:47.56 | jmcnaught | postfix has debconf options for the type of configuration you want, local only is one of the options. same with exim. |
| 21:47.57 | format_c | so besides the MTA's, which from my understanding cannot do anything else than sending emails outbound, I'm not aware of a (server) package w/o inital setup being walked through dpkg --configure step. |
| 21:48.40 | jhutchins | format_c: You won't get any configuration options when installing most mysql packages. |
| 21:49.06 | format_c | AFIAK yes when installing mysql-server |
| 21:49.10 | jhutchins | format_c: Then again, they tend to enable but not start the service/ |
| 21:50.08 | format_c | jhutchins: what is the differnce for the "unknown" between enable (and reboot) and start? |
| 21:50.20 | jhutchins | format_c: It's been a long debate. If the defaults are safe and functional, assume the user wants the service and start it, or do we insist that the user know what they're doing if they're going to install an open service. |
| 21:50.41 | Ede|Popede | checked its postinst, found "invoke-rc.d webfs start" - i expect similar packages to have it too |
| 21:51.01 | format_c | Yes default values are always full of different views |
| 21:53.01 | karlpinc | format_c: (FWIW, MTAs route email. So both inbound and outbound. MUAs send email.) |
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| 21:55.17 | format_c | karlpinc: I'm clear about this definition, but as long as the MTA doesn't feel responsible for the local_domain and the MX records are not set appropriately in DNS, nothing happens. |
| 21:57.05 | karlpinc | I recall what I did the last postfix install. Nothing to alter defaults on install, so it was delivering to local mailboxes only and not listening on public addresses. Then I shut it down and reconfigured it before starting it back up again. This seems reasonable. |
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| 21:57.29 | format_c | I switched from Gentoo to Debian. And the reason why I stick with Debian is because of this first experience: it justed worked w/o tweaking configuration files. |
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| 21:58.01 | karlpinc | Sometimes you get a flood of email into root's local mailbox. (Or a trickle.) But tough, works ok. |
| 21:58.06 | format_c | That doesn't mean, that I don't care about the detail configuration. |
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| 22:00.06 | karlpinc | That's compatible with my preference for Debian. Things work. Minimal maintenace. Systems upgrade with minimal effort, for some value of minimal. Having lots and lots of packages is the bonus. |
| 22:01.12 | format_c | Yeah. But I agree. It's a thin line between. |
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| 22:06.41 | galaxie | Hi, I need some help figuring out udev permissions for a game wheel I have. |
| 22:07.18 | galaxie | In 111-thrustmaster.rules, I have this one line: SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTRS{idVendor}=="044F", ATTRS{idProduct}=="B67E", MODE="0666" |
| 22:07.27 | galaxie | Then I reloaded with: udevadm control --reload-rules |
| 22:07.54 | galaxie | Still I get a usb1.USBErrorAccess: LIBUSB_ERROR_ACCESS in Python's libusb. |
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| 22:09.38 | karlpinc | galaxie: Anything useful in dmsg output. Or syslog? (Just thinking of things to look at.) |
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| 22:10.41 | galaxie | Well, it connects: New USB device found, idVendor=044f, idProduct=b67e |
| 22:11.15 | karlpinc | galaxie: The /dev entry looks right? |
| 22:11.46 | galaxie | karlpinc: I'm trying to find it in /dev.. |
| 22:12.13 | galaxie | karlpinc: Wouldn't it be in /dev/input ?? It's not there. |
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| 22:12.50 | karlpinc | galaxie: All that stuff has leaked out of my brain, if I ever knew that detail. |
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| 22:15.04 | galaxie | karlpinc: And I haven't really done this in awhile either. How would I find where the dev file is? It's not specified in the logs.. |
| 22:15.18 | karlpinc | galaxie: Use "find"? |
| 22:16.04 | karlpinc | galaxie: Although maybe /dev contains loops, so find could be a problem. |
| 22:16.16 | karlpinc | galaxie: You could set a max depth. |
| 22:16.31 | galaxie | karlpinc: I wouldn't know what the file would be called. |
| 22:17.06 | galaxie | karlpinc: Bus 004 Device 004 in the logs.. |
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| 22:17.38 | galaxie | karlpinc: There's three files in /dev/bus/usb/004 ... |
| 22:17.47 | karlpinc | galaxie: How do you tell python what device to use? |
| 22:18.05 | galaxie | karlpinc: And there's a /dev/bus/usb/002/004 file. Is that the one? |
| 22:18.11 | galaxie | karlpinc: By product and vendor ID. |
| 22:18.52 | karlpinc | galaxie: In my experience there's some file in the /dev dir you're looking at that has info like product and vendor id. I think. |
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| 22:22.01 | galaxie | join #supertuxkart |
| 22:23.03 | debsan | xD |
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| 22:25.25 | joepublic | I love supertuxkart. I play that more than any other game. |
| 22:25.38 | galaxie | What's a nice way of resetting the display? STK just messed things up |
| 22:26.06 | format_c | yeah my kids love that too |
| 22:26.07 | joepublic | Uh, I play it windowed instead of full screen for that reason actually |
| 22:26.20 | joepublic | I have four monitors and STK going full screen borks my display all to heck |
| 22:26.35 | galaxie | Well, it doesn't do that except I was trying to find my stupid game wheel. |
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| 22:26.51 | joepublic | I have a script bound to a hotkey that runs xrandr and restores the configuration |
| 22:26.59 | format_c | don't have any problems howevre using the propreitary driver from nvidia |
| 22:27.01 | galaxie | xrandr --auto didn't help much |
| 22:27.48 | joepublic | with four monitors--three widescreen, one not--I just made the xrandr script manually and use that when starting the desktop and whenever it gets confused |
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| 22:28.34 | joepublic | I use an xbox style controller to play |
| 22:28.52 | galaxie | Yeah but I want a real game wheel, a Thrustmaster TMX. |
| 22:29.08 | joepublic | that sounds like fun actually |
| 22:29.10 | galaxie | I'll solve this screen problem the Windoze way; I'll reboot ;P |
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| 22:29.52 | hypn0 | install arandr? |
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| 22:32.09 | joepublic | arandr will save that config as a script, now that you mention it |
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| 22:35.10 | galaxie | Unlike Windoze, it doesn't take six minutes to reboot. Good job. |
| 22:36.16 | joepublic | I have had servers that took 15 minutes to realize that their scsi discs were ready to go and boot up |
| 22:36.31 | galaxie | OK, I finally got the dev file, now what? |
| 22:36.48 | galaxie | udevadm info -q all -a <file> ?? |
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| 22:40.35 | pflanze | Hello. How do I "su" to another user while giving it access to the current X session? |
| 22:40.37 | karlpinc | galaxie: Same python error? |
| 22:40.52 | pflanze | There was a program called "sux" in Debian in the past, but disappeared. |
| 22:40.57 | pflanze | How do I do the same now? |
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| 22:42.35 | karlpinc | pflanze: A stupid way would be to: ssh -X user@localhost I don't know the not-stupid way offhand. There's xauth, you could try reading the man page. |
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| 22:42.50 | galaxie | karlpinc: Same error, yeah. I did realize I put the rule in the wrong dir though. |
| 22:43.01 | hans_ | someone should tell the paste.debian.org maintainer that this text is incorrectly detected as spam: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/XkIKy4FgNddQ3~pk-7H09Q/raw |
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| 22:44.49 | galaxie | Doesn't this udev rule look correct though?? SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTRS{idVendor}=="044f", ATTRS{idProduct}=="b67e", MODE="0666" |
| 22:45.17 | karlpinc | galaxie: Offhand, yes. Although I wouldn't know if more is required -- for something. |
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| 22:45.44 | galaxie | karlpinc: Where would the log entry be that shows it being denied? |
| 22:46.02 | karlpinc | galaxie: Either syslog or authlog |
| 22:46.22 | karlpinc | galaxie: The /dev file's permissions are as expected? |
| 22:46.40 | karlpinc | (And all ancestor dirs?) |
| 22:47.08 | karlpinc | galaxie: Or, just no log at all if it's a python thing. I wouldn't know. |
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| 22:48.10 | galaxie | karlpinc: Permissions are crw-rw-rw- |
| 22:49.07 | galaxie | karlpinc: Odd; I reloaded udev rules, plugged it in again, and now it's giving me a different error: usb1.USBErrorNotFound |
| 22:50.12 | karlpinc | galaxie: The other thing that occurs to me, and I don't know if this would be required-ish or just extra sauce, is to set a group in udev rules. |
| 22:50.19 | galaxie | Wait, how is that possible? It's suddenly switched from a TMX to a TX?? |
| 22:50.42 | karlpinc | galaxie: dmesg is also useful. |
| 22:51.10 | karlpinc | galaxie: What are TMXs and TXs? |
| 22:52.26 | galaxie | Yeah, it confirms it, the product ID mysteriously changed. |
| 22:52.37 | karlpinc | galaxie: There's some sort of master database of what is what based on vendor and product id. Sometimes this causes problems when vendors change things/reuse numbers/etc/etc. |
| 22:52.48 | karlpinc | galaxie: That is very odd. |
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| 22:54.10 | galaxie | I swear, it just changed product id again!!! Right after I added another udev entry for the new id |
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| 22:54.52 | kreyren | is it sane to run debian-security on cosmic ubuntu? |
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| 22:55.47 | galaxie | And.. it changed again. But wait, different error now, I don't think it's a permissions problem. Still, weird.. |
| 22:57.12 | JackFrost | kreyren: No. |
| 22:57.17 | JackFrost | dpkg: frankendebian |
| 22:57.17 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
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| 22:58.27 | galaxie | fixed his post-stable problems without any trauma, thank god. |
| 22:59.29 | kreyren | JackFrost: Assuming dependency conflicts right? |
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| 23:00.36 | JackFrost | kreyren: Different bases, different versioning scheme, etc, etc. You are mixing two different operating systems, it's a bad idea. Just pick one. |
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| 23:01.32 | kreyren | can i use debian with testing/sid security and run stable packages? Looking for stable OS to chroot into gentoo/LFS on demand |
| 23:02.51 | karlpinc | kreyren: No. You can't mix debian releases. You can run stable and use backports from the backports repo. Or you can backport yourself. What is it that you're really concerned about/trying to do? |
| 23:02.56 | n4dir | i am not that sure if testing has security updates, sid sure hasn't. And in general: no. |
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| 23:03.39 | JackFrost | Closest thing testing has is 'testing-proposed-updates', but not often used as far as I know. |
| 23:04.03 | karlpinc | kreyren: You would not "chroot" into gentoo. You could run it as a VM. |
| 23:04.31 | karlpinc | kreyren: The safe way to chroot into gentoo is to run gentoo. |
| 23:04.36 | treehug88 | karlpinc thanks for the note |
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| 23:11.08 | kreyren | karlpinc: i can chroot into gentoo assuming it's mounted in /mnt with dev, sys and proc |
| 23:11.36 | kreyren | JackFrost: ty helpful |
| 23:12.01 | kreyren | what is the recommended release for stable and secure debian/ubuntu distribution? buster? |
| 23:12.11 | JackFrost | kreyren: As a slight side note, `arch-chroot` does some of that bind mounting for you. |
| 23:12.31 | JackFrost | Buster is current 'testing', which will be the next Stable release. |
| 23:12.37 | kreyren | JackFrost: so does my script https://github.com/RXT067/Scripts/blob/master/CHOK/CHOK.sh :D |
| 23:12.40 | blackflow | kreyren: the answers you got in #ubuntu about mixing the distros like that were insufficient? |
| 23:13.15 | kreyren | blackflow: i wanted to confirm it from multiple sources + figured out which release is ideall for my usecase |
| 23:13.22 | karlpinc | kreyren: Sure. But then you're running the rest of the system with different libraries and software. This mostly matters with kernel related stuff, like libc. The kernel and the rest of the system may or may not work or be compatible. |
| 23:13.26 | kreyren | blackflow: dont take me wrong you helped a lot |
| 23:13.52 | kreyren | karlpinc: sane assuming that i want to run gentoo's ck-sources on debian/ubuntu with optimization to be compatible? |
| 23:15.15 | blackflow | kreyren: what use case is that btw? |
| 23:16.18 | kreyren | blackflow: Expected if gentoo/LFS is hardbricked to use BackupOS to fix it and use GUI |
| 23:16.22 | karlpinc | kreyren: An OS has a whole lot of moving pieces. Trying to slap the userspace of one OS onto the kernel of another is not a recipe for happyness. |
| 23:16.54 | kreyren | since i'm running gentoo with USE="-*", overdefined make.conf etc.. which needs lots of maintainance |
| 23:17.29 | blackflow | kreyren: so like why just not use the gentoo ISO for that? or SystemRescueCD? Why go out of your way to break distros by building a franken abomination even systemd can't rival? |
| 23:17.37 | kreyren | karlpinc: there is no problem in making gentoo's kernel work on ubuntu/debian for me but i needs packages with security patches so that i dont have holes in my system when im on backup OS |
| 23:18.00 | kreyren | blackflow: systemrescuecd is an option, but i want customized environment in case i end up on gentoo/LFS not working and i need to do work |
| 23:18.18 | karlpinc | kreyren: That is what backups are for. |
| 23:18.20 | kreyren | problem on ubuntu afaik is that they are slow with updates |
| 23:18.36 | blackflow | kreyren: well it just doesn't add up. customized how? |
| 23:18.46 | kreyren | karlpinc: backups are not always the solution it's usually just walking around the problem |
| 23:19.06 | kreyren | blackflow: so that i can play games, work, etc.. when my gentoo/LFS is hardbricked and it would take time to debug |
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| 23:19.44 | jmcnaught | kreyren: why not dual boot? or run your high-maintenance OS for fun in a VM? |
| 23:20.10 | blackflow | kreyren: so then Ubuntu live ISO? |
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| 23:20.29 | blackflow | it's a fully usable distro with a lot of kernel features, ZFS included, for you to salvage Gentoo |
| 23:20.31 | kreyren | VM is pita since it creates lots of unique issues.. sufficient only for Redox which doesn't have drivers yet |
| 23:20.50 | kreyren | blackflow: i dont have games on live iso.. + i need OS on bare metal for my work |
| 23:21.15 | kreyren | jmcnaught: i'm multibooting Ubuntu, Gentoo and LFS atm and using chroot to work in LFS and gentoo |
| 23:21.33 | kreyren | the problem is security of ubuntu and security of debian in cost of stability |
| 23:21.49 | blackflow | kreyren: definitely not something you'd want to mix gentoo, ubuntu and debian into a franken superdistro |
| 23:22.17 | blackflow | kreyren: you're also contradicting yourself. building such an abomination is never gonna be stable. I'd deserve standing ovation even if it booted. |
| 23:22.22 | kreyren | blackflow: i'm making custom package manager for LFS to use OpenBuildSystem and ebuilds i'm not mixing them together |
| 23:22.34 | blackflow | right so you're building your own distro |
| 23:22.42 | kreyren | blackflow: what is the best security i can get without sacrificing stability? |
| 23:23.05 | blackflow | why do you think those two are in conflict? |
| 23:23.34 | kreyren | since rolling distros usually needs lots of maintainance which i can't afford for backup os |
| 23:23.35 | blackflow | and this is btw totally offtopic for #debian |
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| 23:24.15 | blackflow | kreyren: so why just not use debian or ubuntu |
| 23:24.24 | kreyren | -_- i can't really ask anywhere else and i want to avoid making research about it when it's just a matter of chosing debian/ubuntu distribution |
| 23:24.56 | kreyren | blackflow: because ubuntu is slow on updates for security and debian sid/unstable needs maintainance afaik |
| 23:25.05 | kreyren | since i want all security updates |
| 23:25.14 | kreyren | and hardened kernel |
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| 23:25.28 | kreyren | kernel is not an issue security updates is |
| 23:26.32 | kreyren | *are |
| 23:26.36 | blackflow | kreyren: you're going all wrong about it |
| 23:26.41 | kreyren | elaborate? |
| 23:27.10 | blackflow | first of all, ubuntu is rather fast on security updates, and so is debian. they both do, however, triage security impact and won't fix something trivial or unexploitable within an hour of CVE publishing |
| 23:27.32 | SerajewelKS | (especially if it breaks things) |
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| 23:27.52 | blackflow | second, you're putting too much accent on software updates. many critical vulns have existed in systems for months, some years even, before they were discovered/published/patched. |
| 23:28.19 | blackflow | at this very moment, there's a number of vulns that will yet be published, maybe tomorrow even. many vulns to come yet will be RCEs, some in the kernel.... |
| 23:28.31 | kreyren | So what is my best option? I'm using CLIP OS, MUSSQ and PaX kernel patches on gentoo with master packages from updsteam for critical stuff for comparison.. i want something simmilar on debian that is not maintainance heavy |
| 23:28.36 | blackflow | so if you're REALLY worried about security, you should put up layers of mitigation that already assume a compromized system |
| 23:29.06 | blackflow | what pax kernel patches? you're paying for grsec? or using the terribly out of date 4.9 ones? |
| 23:29.26 | kreyren | paying |
| 23:29.49 | altker128 | Question here: Anyone using Debian LXC containers? I notice my Stretch containers take up ~60-70MB of RAM each with nothing really going on, while a Jessie container is far lower on memory, maybe 10-20MB. |
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| 23:30.30 | joepublic | Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? |
| 23:30.46 | blackflow | kreyren: what's MUSSQ? |
| 23:30.51 | altker128 | joepublic: What was your question? |
| 23:30.59 | kreyren | blackflow: it's optimization for scheduler |
| 23:31.11 | kreyren | blackflow: it's supposed to utilize system resources better |
| 23:31.28 | blackflow | so basically you just need a custom kernel on, say, debian? |
| 23:31.38 | blackflow | but if you want pax markings that ain't gonna work |
| 23:31.50 | kreyren | yes which is not an issue, but i need a way to update packages |
| 23:32.00 | blackflow | "apt update && apt upgrade". what's bad about that? |
| 23:32.14 | blackflow | here take today for example. systemd updated within an hour of announcement of the vuln on oss-sec list |
| 23:32.26 | blackflow | gentoo still didn't, did they? |
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| 23:32.37 | kreyren | blackflow: it won't pull recent version afaik |
| 23:32.50 | blackflow | so, like, debian and ubuntu (which did the same) actually have FASTER updates? |
| 23:33.00 | kreyren | gentoo is not using systemd if you sent me a source on debian update i sent you on gentoo |
| 23:33.12 | kreyren | they are updating it fast.. usually faster then debian afaik |
| 23:33.16 | blackflow | gentoo IS using systemd, who told you it isn't? |
| 23:33.24 | blackflow | or are you confusing default in the stage3 with "using systemd"? |
| 23:33.25 | kreyren | blackflow: using OpenRC by default |
| 23:33.32 | n4dir | it can use systemd, but it can also use openrc, and most prefer that |
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| 23:33.39 | blackflow | well.... "default" being the key operating word here. pletny of gentoo installations with systemd |
| 23:33.40 | iovec | it still funny systemd can make the kernel panic |
| 23:34.00 | blackflow | iovec: this was even funnier. dbus slagging pid eins |
| 23:34.10 | blackflow | oversized message and boom critical hit. |
| 23:34.25 | iovec | you don't even have to do much to avoid that |
| 23:34.28 | kreyren | my main problem with systemd is that it's too heavy and causing performance issues.. ideally i want OpenRC on debian/ubuntu but that is not a priority now |
| 23:34.33 | blackflow | well it's fixed now :) |
| 23:34.35 | altker128 | systemd seems poorly architected . Still has bizarre symlinks on disk. Should have been written in Go and been a lot cleaner |
| 23:34.52 | blackflow | kreyren: irrelevant. point being, your assumptions about "slow updates" in debian/ubuntu are totally misplaced. |
| 23:35.01 | iovec | at best if you run supervisor root as non pid 1, you die but everything gracefully reparents to pid 1 |
| 23:35.10 | iovec | and you get respawned, back to life again |
| 23:35.13 | joepublic | +1 "Problem with systemd is: not written in go" -- best criticism I've seen to date. |
| 23:35.18 | kreyren | blackflow: recent changes to systemd https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=sys-apps%2Fsystemd+ |
| 23:35.48 | kreyren | blackflow: so if i'm on cosmic and there is debian update that fixes 150 things when will i get it? |
| 23:36.19 | blackflow | kreyren: yeah still not updated, while both debian and ubuntu fixed today (and rhel and centos and fedora ...) |
| 23:36.32 | blackflow | kreyren: cosmic and debian have nothing in common |
| 23:36.44 | iovec | blackflow: what i find interesting is that focus is on fixing issues, not systematically addressing them. |
| 23:36.53 | blackflow | (in relase cadence and package versions AFTER ubuntu branches off every 6 months) |
| 23:37.01 | kreyren | ok excluding ubuntu, when i'm on latest stable release when will i get those patches? |
| 23:37.09 | altker128 | joepublic: It sounds arbitrary but there's a lot of type saftey and intelligence in Go that systemd people had to recreate in C. |
| 23:37.09 | iovec | keep playing whack a mole for the next 10 years then, until something replaces you |
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| 23:37.12 | iovec | rinse and repeat. |
| 23:37.13 | blackflow | iovec: that was my objection earler. too much accent on updates |
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| 23:37.45 | joepublic | It didn't sound arbitrary, and I see your point |
| 23:37.51 | iovec | it's a lost cause, and nobody wants to deal with an upstream that says they will no longer cooperate if you file CVEs |
| 23:37.57 | blackflow | kreyren: what patches? |
| 23:38.02 | altker128 | joepublic: Oh, thanks! Hard to tell if someone is being sarcastic or not |
| 23:38.25 | joepublic | I am almost always at least 10% sarcasm when discussion contentious issues such as the architecture of systemd |
| 23:38.38 | kreyren | blackflow: https://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-gnu-linux-9-8-released-with-over-180-security-updates-and-bug-fixes-524979.shtml?fbclid=IwAR2c60rvdG3tomiMAvRHeaBXfQOBOLrMFhEiUxyMoeaI_WuuxQQ7Jm7YnSQ |
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| 23:39.01 | blackflow | kreyren: you do realize that's ONLY a point release? all those updates were already available to stable |
| 23:39.03 | joepublic | I just hadn't seen it analyzed from that angle, and that approach would prevent some pretty nasty bugs |
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| 23:39.39 | blackflow | kreyren: I upgraded some servers today, only a few packages were new (systemd included) as those 180 were alraedy there with regular "apt upgrade"-ing |
| 23:39.52 | kreyren | blackflow: ah i see, so stable debian should be sane enough to use assuming that security is critical for this system? |
| 23:40.15 | blackflow | kreyren: yes but I'd go even further and state use RHEL and SELinux in strict mode |
| 23:40.22 | blackflow | if "security is critical" |
| 23:40.31 | kreyren | like i have a work there that is worth +-50.000$ i can't affort it beeing compromised |
| 23:40.33 | altker128 | joepublic: I notice that a lot of "system" software is either low-level and written in C, or written in high-level scripting languages which is flexible but often slow. |
| 23:40.38 | blackflow | you'll have less options, less headroom, stricter packages but with that, better security |
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| 23:41.28 | kreyren | i don't want to use Redhat nor SELinux.. Redhat is for enterprice and requires commercial licence and SELinux is made by NSA |
| 23:41.43 | blackflow | so what if it is? it's open source, constantly audited |
| 23:41.58 | blackflow | plenty of stuff "made by NSA" and you don't even know about it |
| 23:42.04 | FinalX | but nothing will be 100% safe and certainly not immediately.. as good an effort as possible, as always with anything.. not just Debian. you'll always want multi tier security. plus things that shouldn't be online, shouldn't be online. |
| 23:42.17 | blackflow | like for example some ciphers in SSL I bet you are NOT excluding |
| 23:42.19 | FinalX | pretty sure what we have running on Debian is slightly more valuable than 50k.. |
| 23:42.20 | joepublic | in my opinion "The NSA are evil beings that I don't like and I don't want to use their software on general principle" is a valid position. |
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| 23:43.01 | kreyren | rather avoid there is better way to get secure system.. as i said my main problem is to get recent versions of packages meaning if upstream releases new version i want it on my system.. or ideally with the ability to use unreleased like using WINE 4.2 when WINE4.1 is released |
| 23:43.05 | blackflow | joepublic: yeah but it's also very much hypocritical |
| 23:43.08 | kreyren | for selected packages |
| 23:43.22 | blackflow | because then stop using linux. how many patches in it originated in the NSA? |
| 23:43.43 | blackflow | and kreyren is using Clip OS which is made by French version of NSA |
| 23:43.45 | blackflow | trolololololo |
| 23:43.48 | blackflow | hypocrisy much? |
| 23:44.10 | kreyren | blackflow: just cherrypicked stuff for it |
| 23:44.14 | blackflow | bs |
| 23:44.16 | joepublic | blackflow, I respect your position as well. |
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| 23:44.57 | blackflow | if somoene doesn't want to use "software made by NSA" thenfine. it's not just SELinux, all I'm saying, so be through and stop using software made by NSA completely. |
| 23:45.06 | blackflow | *thorough |
| 23:45.54 | joepublic | It's a valid position to say "I don't want to use SELinux specifically because of its nature and NSA origin." -- even if you run software containing NSA patches. |
| 23:46.03 | FinalX | no matter what you run, nothing is 100% safe.. especially not with cpu's being vulnerable all the time... remotely.. |
| 23:46.15 | FinalX | so can't rely on *just* the OS |
| 23:46.36 | konimex | joepublic: wouldn't that be hypocritical? |
| 23:46.41 | blackflow | joepublic: no that's just hypocritical. if one said "because it's too complicated, or I don't need it" that'd be perfectly fine. |
| 23:47.01 | blackflow | but saying "because herp derp NSA", then stop using otehr things that herp derp NSA :) |
| 23:47.21 | blackflow | especially in THIS case, where kreyren is running ClipOS which is......NSA in France. |
| 23:47.28 | joepublic | I get the black or white thinking slippery slope idea, but it's possible to want to run or not run something for a combination of reasons that apply to that thing. |
| 23:47.33 | kreyren | or like you can always make LFS and build SELinux, etc.. from scratch to make sure it's fine |
| 23:48.01 | blackflow | joepublic: that's true but if a reason is "originated from NSA" then please don't stop at SELinux :) |
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| 23:48.31 | kreyren | so what debian distribution is ideall for my usecase? >.> |
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| 23:48.42 | joepublic | What I said was "specifically because of its nature and NSA origin", but don't let that slow you down. |
| 23:48.51 | blackflow | like for example I bet the new fangled elliptic curves are all the rage these days for kex and ciphers. well guess where that originated. |
| 23:48.53 | Marz | is there a way to be notified when updates are available? |
| 23:49.05 | Marz | or do i have to manually check it |
| 23:49.07 | joepublic | In fact, I agree, all software is identical in nature, and only your ideas of what should be rejected are valid ones. |
| 23:49.07 | n4dir | kreyren: as long you have to ask, stable is the answer. |
| 23:49.18 | n4dir | else? else too. |
| 23:49.26 | joepublic | Lost my senses there for a minute in reality, but I'm back now. |
| 23:49.32 | blackflow | kreyren: btw, selinux is in debian kernel even if you don't use it. |
| 23:49.34 | kreyren | n4dir: i dont want to do the research to test invidual releases |
| 23:49.37 | jmcnaught | Marz: you can subscribe to the mailing list or RSS here: https://www.debian.org/security/ |
| 23:49.49 | n4dir | kreyren: i am serious. just stick to stable. |
| 23:49.52 | kreyren | blackflow: ik there is lots of wierd stuff in debian kernel thats why i want my own |
| 23:50.14 | blackflow | kreyren: so from all said above it seems to me you only needa custom kernel on otherwise regular debian? |
| 23:50.22 | joepublic | I am not sure "there is lots of weird stuff in debian kernel" is an accurate description. |
| 23:50.41 | kreyren | n4dir: if i gave you a file that is worth 50K $ and tell you to keep it on stable debian and make sure none steals it will you guarantee me that none would be able to get it? assuming that the system is targeted |
| 23:50.47 | blackflow | joepublic: there's TOMOYO. TOMOYO is weird. :) |
| 23:50.57 | n4dir | kreyren: just encrypt it. |
| 23:51.08 | Marz | isn't that just security updates? |
| 23:51.13 | kreyren | n4dir: not an option assuming that attacker gain access to unencrypted system |
| 23:51.28 | joepublic | speaking of security subsystems :) |
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| 23:51.36 | blackflow | kreyren: the attacker will pay $20k to get you beat up and take the file, earn $30 selling it |
| 23:51.44 | blackflow | not bad mony for some light beating |
| 23:51.46 | n4dir | ha ha. exactly |
| 23:51.47 | blackflow | *money |
| 23:51.57 | kreyren | blackflow: i can deal with physical attacks.. |
| 23:52.08 | joepublic | The five dollar wrench exploit is legend |
| 23:52.08 | blackflow | kreyren: https://xkcd.com/538/ |
| 23:52.22 | konimex | damn i just wanted to link that haha |
| 23:52.27 | blackflow | really print that out and consult EVERY time when you ask yourself "How secure is this system" |
| 23:53.08 | joepublic | that is super good advice imo |
| 23:53.52 | joepublic | even an air gap isn't a guarantee; in the past year an air-gapped russian supercomputer was connected to the internet by its low-level operators to... mine cryptocurrency |
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| 23:57.00 | altker128 | Don't worry, blockchain will solve ALL of these issues. |
| 23:57.09 | altker128 | Because, you know...blockchain |
| 23:57.45 | kreyren | >.> |
| 23:57.58 | blackflow | yeah, it dropped 0.0043% in value between those two sentences :) |
| 23:58.21 | blackflow | I might haev a zero too many :) |
| 23:58.50 | altker128 | So, any thoughts on memory usage of Debian Stretch container vs. Debian Jessie container? |
| 23:58.57 | altker128 | (host is Debian Stretch) |
| 23:59.12 | blackflow | kreyren: my advice? if you dislike selinux.... Debian Stable, AppArmor, systemd unit isolation and namespacing options (and seccomp filtering) and above all a good IDS so you can detect breaches. |
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| 23:59.43 | konimex | looking back at my backlogs of this channel, not doing research just seems lazy |