| 00:02.58 | k-man | my auto mounting of usb flash disks is broken |
| 00:03.12 | somiaj | what desktop to you use? |
| 00:03.20 | k-man | nothing happens when i insert a usb stick. but in dmesg i can see that the device was detected upon insertion |
| 00:03.22 | k-man | gnome |
| 00:03.52 | somiaj | hmm, check your .xsession-errors log, see if xorg is spitting out any errors |
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| 00:05.20 | k-man | nothing obvious in there |
| 00:05.42 | k-man | why doesn't it timestamp the lines in there |
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| 00:50.45 | rant | k-man: gvfsd is whats responsible for automounting though encrypted drives or exfat may not be automounted without additional packages/configuration |
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| 00:57.47 | awal1 | any suggestion for an usb wifi adapter 5 ghz supported by debian *free or non-free* (if you have tried it yet)? |
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| 00:58.23 | awal1 | ^ (preferably with injection support) |
| 00:59.21 | awal1 | i want this https://www.amazon.ca/Alfa-AC1900-Wifi-adapter-Long-Range/dp/B01MZD7Z76/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=Alfa+AC1900+WiFi+Adapter&qid=1550277313&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull but not sure if really supported |
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| 00:59.48 | somiaj | I would just try to get info about the chipset, and then check linux support |
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| 01:02.45 | awal1 | already checked this before i ask but I am not sure about what i am reading https://wikidevi.com/wiki/ALFA_Network_AWUS1900 |
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| 01:03.29 | somiaj | often times if you can get the usbid that can help out a lot |
| 01:03.39 | somiaj | I'm not in a place i can look at that though, others might be able to |
| 01:06.25 | awal1 | no problem somiaj, thanks for your interest anyway |
| 01:06.46 | awal1 | i think it is not supported officially https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/07/msg00440.html |
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| 01:07.29 | awal1 | probably via ppa in ubuntu (which I won't use :P) |
| 01:10.21 | de-facto | How does the chain of trust work in a debian repo? Background: I am thinking about setting up an own little repo for my packages, which GPG infrastructure is most common for this? |
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| 01:13.15 | de-facto | It seems its a common pattern that one would have the clients do something like "wget -qO- https://repo.domain.tld/download/apt-secure-pub.key.asc | sudo apt-key add -" to establish a trust anchor |
| 01:14.28 | de-facto | and of course a /etc/apt/sources.list.d/reponame.list entry |
| 01:14.50 | de-facto | but how does that chain of trust work? is there a howto for a setup somewhere? |
| 01:19.20 | somiaj | !secure apt |
| 01:19.20 | dpkg | [apt-secure] Starting with version 0.6, <APT> performs signature checking of the Release file for all archives. See http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt , "man apt-secure" and chapter 7 of the Securing Debian Manual (ask me about <securing debian>) for more information. The archive signing key can be found at https://ftp-master.debian.org/keys.html . See also <key>, <no public key>. https://wiki.debian.org/RepositoryFormat |
| 01:19.32 | somiaj | that is how the trust that the package you get from the repo is valid works |
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| 01:22.55 | de-facto | yes im already reading it |
| 01:24.38 | somiaj | I don't know the details, but if you have a more specific question you might get a better answer from others. |
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| 01:25.01 | de-facto | is the trust anchor itself just dangling, i.e. the download over https and hence the ca-certificates (e.g. lets encrypt et al) provide for it? |
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| 01:25.47 | somiaj | apt often just uses http, and dosen't need https to help with its chain of trust |
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| 01:27.18 | de-facto | yes thats good because it can be cached then, i mean is the trust anchor from "wget -qO- https://repo.domain.tld/download/apt-secure-pub.key.asc | sudo apt-key add -" singed somehow or just a self generated trust root? |
| 01:27.48 | somiaj | https://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com/ |
| 01:28.18 | de-facto | thats not my question |
| 01:28.38 | somiaj | yea, I was just slow at adding that to the above response. |
| 01:29.16 | somiaj | I don't know the answer to that question, as to ensure you add the correct public key in the first place. |
| 01:29.29 | de-facto | yes exactly |
| 01:29.50 | somiaj | but my understanding is provided you have valid keys in your apt-key database, apt will make sure packages are correctly signed before installing them. |
| 01:30.27 | de-facto | yup it seems to verify them over a chain of hashes with Release.gpg |
| 01:30.43 | somiaj | as to issues getting a good key (ensuring someone doesn't inject a false key). But I think they have to also ensure you get false packages. |
| 01:30.53 | somiaj | but unsure on the details here, maybe someone else can provide better explination. |
| 01:31.12 | de-facto | but yeah the trust anchor probably is just a dangling import, so the transport or something like that would have to make sure its authentic |
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| 01:32.19 | de-facto | I mean if it just would be like "yeah httpS is Safe, dont worry" any trust anchor in ca-certificates could forge it (and i have to admit i dont know the majority of the trust anchors in there) |
| 01:32.56 | de-facto | i mean for importing the public gpg key of a new repo |
| 01:34.12 | somiaj | The wiki does have this, https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt#How_to_tell_if_the_key_is_safe unsure if you read that or not (its a long page) |
| 01:34.46 | somiaj | that to mee seems to be your question, but maybe I missunderstood |
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| 01:38.44 | de-facto | Jup thats exactly it, it tells me that its good to be paranoid about security LOL, yet it makes one would have to emply a GPG chain/web or trust around it (based on social links) to make a vote for trust about signing a key |
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| 01:39.41 | de-facto | they also say that not all apt repos have it, hence dangling trust anchors, so i assume its fine to stop at that point and worry about it later how to sign the trust anchor |
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| 01:54.15 | karlpinc | de-facto: I think the basic idea is that people would hear about it if the public apt key was compromised, whether that happened if the website was hacked or whatever. If somebody was going to target you specifically, they could and you wouldn't know. I can't say if they'd have to keep intercepting all your apt traffic to keep you from discovering that you'd initially been given a bad key. (That's in interesting question.) |
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| 02:13.59 | de-facto | karlpinc, yes it seems it all boils down to having the initial import of a trust anchor somewhat trustworthy and of course also to keep the private key always safe. |
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| 02:17.32 | user37 | im having issues with loading TLS and SSL in browsers |
| 02:17.43 | user37 | is there something major im missing? |
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| 02:18.46 | user37 | ive tried chromium and firefox, and it used to happen with some sites after i visit them a few dozen times, now happening more easily |
| 02:19.55 | de-facto | i guess you would have to provide exact error messages with your "issues" |
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| 02:21.11 | user37 | browsers time out or partially load pages, in cli trying to wget yt-dl i get "GnuTLS: The TLS connection was non-properly terminated." |
| 02:21.35 | de-facto | e.g. what do you do, what does(n't) it do and tell you, what did you expect? |
| 02:21.56 | user37 | browsers also hang on "waiting for TLS handshake" |
| 02:22.11 | user37 | sometimes everything works fine, other times i have these problems |
| 02:22.14 | de-facto | are you behind a proxy which may not be properly setup? |
| 02:22.53 | user37 | not to my knowledge. would that show up in a traceroute? i will run one now |
| 02:22.56 | de-facto | is it a wifi or a wired connection |
| 02:23.04 | user37 | wifi :( |
| 02:23.22 | user37 | traceroute has the * * * after leaving gateway |
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| 02:25.17 | de-facto | hmm you also can try to view the ssl cert chain of an url when it does not work properly e.g. openssl s_client -connect www.test.com:443 -prexit |
| 02:25.28 | de-facto | but it very well could just be a bad wifi i guess |
| 02:25.35 | wyoung | Hi gang!! |
| 02:25.44 | user37 | thanks de-facto, ill try that |
| 02:25.54 | de-facto | if you have the opportunity you might want to test a wired connection to debug it with same url |
| 02:26.00 | de-facto | from your box of course |
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| 02:26.15 | user37 | unfortunately, dont really have the opportunity at the moment |
| 02:27.00 | user37 | openssl is actually looks like a great tool |
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| 02:27.26 | de-facto | curl is too: curl -Iv https://www.test.com |
| 02:28.18 | de-facto | user37, all of those base their trust on ca-certificates package CA trust anchors on your system |
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| 02:28.38 | de-facto | e.g. dpkg --get-selections | grep ca-certificates |
| 02:29.35 | de-facto | user37, wireshark also is a great tool for debugging network problems, you can watch stuff at the packet level and browse the semantics of each known packet |
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| 02:30.55 | LtL | de-facto: dpkg -l ca-certificates = much quicker :) |
| 02:31.30 | LtL | unless theres more than one i guess |
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| 02:34.46 | de-facto | basically i have to admit i dislike ca-certificates because i dont know the majority of the CAs in it, but its still the way to go nowerdays |
| 02:35.52 | de-facto | besides being able to cache http with squid et al, its a very good reason for secure-apt not relying on it in my opinion |
| 02:36.27 | user37 | i still use apt-get instead of apt... am i going to hell? |
| 02:36.36 | user37 | drinks |
| 02:36.50 | de-facto | lol you are using it with apt-get already :) |
| 02:37.06 | de-facto | its transparent unless something bad happens it will tell you |
| 02:38.18 | user37 | okay, im convinced. apt is better. il switch immediately |
| 02:39.53 | de-facto | nope both are fine, its implemented in the backend afaik |
| 02:40.18 | de-facto | it all depends on which keys you tell it to trust: https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt#How_to_tell_if_the_key_is_safe |
| 02:40.28 | de-facto | i also just read about it earlier |
| 02:42.14 | user37 | i just tried to cat /etc/apt/trusted.gpg to see what keys apt trusts, but that was a nope |
| 02:42.30 | user37 | although i do see one legibly |
| 02:42.58 | user37 | drinks again |
| 02:43.37 | de-facto | try sudo apt-key list |
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| 02:46.42 | user37 | that looks better |
| 02:48.09 | de-facto | i think they are in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d or such |
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| 02:51.29 | awal1 | ,v rtl8812au-dkms |
| 02:51.30 | judd | No package named 'rtl8812au-dkms' was found in amd64. |
| 02:52.28 | awal1 | I have D-Link DWA-182 rev C1 . i hope something is being done for rtl8812au-dkms |
| 02:53.12 | de-facto | awal1, its unofficial (not trusted?), but I got quite some good results with https://github.com/gordboy/rtl8812au |
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| 02:54.52 | awal1 | de-facto, ok thanks. i am usually react to 3d party stuff, but i may try it in a different/testing machine |
| 02:55.06 | awal1 | d-link dwa'182 too? |
| 02:55.28 | de-facto | Alpha AWUS036AC |
| 02:55.30 | awal1 | or another dongle using that chipset? |
| 02:55.38 | awal1 | ah, ok |
| 02:55.39 | de-facto | its RTL8812AU |
| 02:56.06 | awal1 | ubuntu and mint have pkged officialy rtl8812au-dkms for that chipset |
| 02:56.17 | awal1 | maybe it will be available soon on debian |
| 02:56.21 | awal1 | hopefully |
| 02:56.24 | de-facto | yeah its quite old version of it though |
| 02:57.04 | de-facto | 4.3.8.12175.20140902+dfsg-0ubuntu8 vs 5.2.20.2 |
| 02:57.29 | awal1 | does that chipset support injection? |
| 02:57.44 | awal1 | haven't tried it for that even if i I have it |
| 02:58.10 | de-facto | not quite sure about that, its not based on official linux kernel modules but rather Realtek's own implementation afaik |
| 02:58.42 | strixdio | hey |
| 02:58.50 | strixdio | I have an audio device that isn't outputting sound |
| 02:58.56 | strixdio | Audio device [0403] |
| 02:58.56 | awal1 | looks like it have support for monitor mode and supports injection |
| 02:59.08 | strixdio | 00:04.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation Device [8086:a348] (rev 10) |
| 02:59.08 | de-facto | try it out? |
| 02:59.09 | strixdio | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:59.24 | strixdio | I only have a dummy output for pavucontrol |
| 02:59.25 | awal1 | maybe a wishlist bug about rtl8812au-dkms may help |
| 03:00.06 | strixdio | any thoughts? |
| 03:00.34 | de-facto | alsamixer? i dunno much about audio stuff... |
| 03:00.45 | strixdio | well, I think it's a driver issue |
| 03:00.53 | strixdio | iirc, I tried once before but it was loading the wrong driver |
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| 03:01.15 | de-facto | load another one and look at dmesg? |
| 03:02.06 | strixdio | well, I was loading the correct one. |
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| 03:02.43 | de-facto | i had once a audio problem and searched a lot until i realized it was just muted in alsamixer |
| 03:02.46 | strixdio | I can add nonfree right |
| 03:02.55 | strixdio | to /etc/apt/sources.lst |
| 03:02.57 | strixdio | list* |
| 03:03.39 | de-facto | you can do everything i guess, just make sure you actually want it :) |
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| 03:10.50 | strixdio | grrr |
| 03:10.55 | strixdio | idk what is going on with this. |
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| 03:23.34 | strixdio | ah, it's an Intel Corporation Device a348 |
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| 03:25.32 | strixdio | omg seriously |
| 03:25.45 | strixdio | needs a newer kernel from stretch-backports |
| 03:25.48 | strixdio | freaking.. hell... |
| 03:25.56 | strixdio | yet again, burned by debian being old. |
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| 03:33.22 | rwp | strixdio, If you want bleeding edge bits there is always the Sid Unstable suite. |
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| 04:35.42 | Deihmos | do you prefer debian on desktop as opposed to another distro like ubuntu |
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| 04:37.57 | Deihmos | wrong channel |
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| 05:00.39 | ksqsf | Hi, I've been experiencing an annoying problem. After upgrading to buster, my laptop's keyboard and touchpad don't work after waking up from suspending, but not always |
| 05:00.59 | ksqsf | Could somebody give me some pointer on how to debug this problem? |
| 05:01.24 | ksqsf | My dmesg: http://ix.io/1BIA |
| 05:01.46 | ksqsf | Also tried enabling all devices found by xinput list, but no luck |
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| 05:03.43 | mal10c | I'm using debian for my first time ever. It's so much more stable than Ubuntu! |
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| 05:06.53 | guoruei | nice |
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| 05:07.43 | blueingress | Hi, I have problem update chromium.. anyone help? error message: https://pastebin.com/QYLs9fEs |
| 05:08.55 | guoruei | You might want to run 'apt --fix-broken install' to correct these. |
| 05:09.30 | guoruei | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:10.12 | blueingress | guoruei, https://pastebin.com/0DcjchFJ |
| 05:10.19 | blueingress | still have problems |
| 05:11.15 | guoruei | The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: |
| 05:11.15 | guoruei | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:11.15 | guoruei | Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them. |
| 05:12.35 | blueingress | guoruei, it seems a dead cycle... https://pastebin.com/PLfhBbVL |
| 05:12.43 | guoruei | lol |
| 05:14.20 | blueingress | :-( |
| 05:14.36 | guoruei | emmm |
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| 05:18.30 | guoruei | If you need browser badly , you can try Iceweasel (Firefox) |
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| 05:19.25 | blueingress | guoruei, I have firefox and chrome installed. For testing reason, I need the chromium as the 3rd browser.. |
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| 05:22.03 | guoruei | ok |
| 05:22.11 | blueingress | guoruei, maybe I should not use the testing debian version: https://pastebin.com/BDDvG06J |
| 05:22.28 | blueingress | Codename: buster |
| 05:22.39 | guoruei | debian 10 ? |
| 05:23.04 | guoruei | no,, if you want update all day |
| 05:23.06 | blueingress | there are still many bugs there, for example, Brave browser has been dead for some days... |
| 05:23.47 | guoruei | I do not want my SSD dead for this |
| 05:24.54 | jmcnaught | blueingress: try asking on irc.oftc.net #debian-next, that's the official testing support channel |
| 05:25.18 | blueingress | guoruei, got to leave, Thank you. |
| 05:25.33 | blueingress | jmcnaught, thanks a lot. :-) |
| 05:25.35 | guoruei | blueingress: see you |
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| 05:59.36 | Marz | is it recommended to enable non free software |
| 06:04.15 | well_laid_lawn | that is a choice you have to make yourself |
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| 06:04.29 | well_laid_lawn | sometimes it is handy |
| 06:05.38 | diogenes_ | get the red pill Neo |
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| 06:06.53 | perseiver | I need expert help in resolving package dependencies... for Freeswitch in Debian 9. I am not sure where to get help regarding this. Since its an issue with debian 9 pacakages I am posting here |
| 06:07.58 | perseiver | paste.debian.net/plain/1069613 |
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| 06:09.24 | perseiver | main error is libudev-dev : Depends: libudev1 (= 232-25+deb9u8) but 232-25+deb9u9 is to be installed |
| 06:13.03 | Marz | the software app on debian and ubuntu looks the same but on ubuntu it can open deb files for install |
| 06:13.23 | Marz | is there something i need to add to allow it to install software |
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| 06:14.09 | diogenes_ | gdebi |
| 06:15.32 | Marz | i did that before. it is a separate app and does not open in the software app |
| 06:16.55 | themill | perseiver: it looks like you used to have security.debian.org in your sources.list but no longer do so |
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| 06:17.31 | perseiver | yes themill: it was creating error, so I comment that |
| 06:17.40 | diogenes_ | Marz, software app is a separate app too. |
| 06:17.45 | themill | well lack of that entry is your new error |
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| 06:18.52 | perseiver | ok themil: when I have enabled that I got issue regarding "source repository is not secure.. Ignoring the repository" |
| 06:19.58 | themill | err can you pastebin the entire output and your sources.list? |
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| 06:22.19 | perseiver | I can just paste the sources.list content on pastebin.. |
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| 06:24.11 | perseiver | http://paste.debian.net/1069614/ |
| 06:24.33 | themill | !stretch sources.list |
| 06:24.33 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 06:24.39 | themill | perseiver: it's updates not updated. |
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| 06:24.53 | themill | (see what dpkg said) |
| 06:25.25 | b4d | Hi! Can and how can I list multiple packages for pinning in /etc/apt/preferences, currently I have one entry for pinned package and I would like to merge more of them into one pin? Thanks in advance |
| 06:26.34 | themill | b4d: see apt_preferences(5), but note that if you're doing lots of pinning, you're probably accumulating problems for the future and there is almost always an easier way |
| 06:26.40 | perseiver | ok |
| 06:27.06 | b4d | themill: thanks, will check. Yeah I know the pitfalls, but would like the latest vim version :) |
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| 06:28.05 | themill | istr vim pulls a *lot* with it |
| 06:28.14 | themill | !ssb |
| 06:28.14 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 06:30.02 | perseiver | SID repository is really a risky choice, the main problem it creates is package conflicts... |
| 06:30.45 | perseiver | sometime software require a particular version of package and SID is always updated one... |
| 06:30.56 | perseiver | Try sid at your own risk |
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| 08:45.33 | w17t | what is the difference between sid and unstable mini.iso's? |
| 08:45.35 | Sandlayth | Hello guys. I have 4 debian vbox VMs on 2 different virtual internal networks. One of them belongs to both networks, let's call it "router". Every vm can ping the "router", and, given that i've enabled net.ipv4.ip_forward, they can ping each other. Everything is fine until now. Now, I've created a host only network, and set an ip address to my host. I've created a new host-only adapter interface to my |
| 08:45.37 | Sandlayth | "router". I can ping the "router" from my host, which is fine. However, I can't ping the other machines on the other "router"'s networks, even if IPv4 forwarding is enabled. Do you know why? Is it related to debian or vbox? |
| 08:45.41 | w17t | namely http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso |
| 08:45.49 | w17t | and http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/unstable/main/installer-amd64/ |
| 08:46.13 | w17t | https://wiki.debian.org/InstallFAQ mentions unstable/ for mini.iso |
| 08:46.44 | w17t | or are they the same (symlinked directories etc)? |
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| 09:03.07 | _wrksx | mornin guys |
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| 09:03.30 | _wrksx | I dunno how, I created a file called "?:q" |
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| 09:04.14 | _wrksx | but maybe some invisible chars or I dunno, because rm '?:q' doesn work, no such file |
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| 09:04.50 | _wrksx | any idea how can I make sure of the name, and delete it ? |
| 09:05.16 | _wrksx | or maybe using the file id or something |
| 09:06.52 | _wrksx | using cmd line completion it shows as ^[:q |
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| 09:08.32 | Sandlayth | put the file name into quotes? |
| 09:08.47 | Sandlayth | it doesn't work? |
| 09:08.58 | Sandlayth | what does your ls return? |
| 09:09.29 | _wrksx | nope |
| 09:09.43 | _wrksx | rm '?:q' no such file |
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| 09:10.12 | _wrksx | I have no idea how I created it, I just noticed it today |
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| 09:12.25 | blackflow | _wrksx: hah, from vim |
| 09:12.44 | blackflow | _wrksx: try rm \?<hit tab> |
| 09:12.59 | _wrksx | I just manage to read it using vim |
| 09:13.15 | _wrksx | it garbage, a manpage dump |
| 09:13.45 | blackflow | ah, from the manpage pager then. neway, \?<tab> |
| 09:13.47 | _wrksx | rm \?<tab> doesn't work from the shell |
| 09:14.08 | blackflow | then type out the filename, but lead that ? with \? |
| 09:14.36 | _wrksx | blackflow, I didn't get it |
| 09:15.05 | blackflow | rm \?:q |
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| 09:16.15 | Sandlayth | remove it with the inode number? |
| 09:16.18 | blackflow | and if that doesn't work... you'll need some find .... -delete magick but be careful you don't delete unwanted, so first make sure the find filter is working as expected, before you add -delete |
| 09:16.20 | Sandlayth | ls -il |
| 09:16.42 | Sandlayth | and then find . -inum <Number> -delete |
| 09:16.51 | blackflow | even better. |
| 09:17.14 | perseiver | hi themill: You are rockstar... |
| 09:17.28 | perseiver | My issue regarding broken dependencies is solved.. thanks |
| 09:18.11 | mymosh | Hello! Is firewalld or ufw the preferred way of setting up a firewall on Debian Jessie? |
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| 09:21.10 | at0m | !iptables |
| 09:21.11 | dpkg | [iptables] The user-space process used to administer iptables kernel parts on top of netfilter. Ask me about <netfilter docs>. For a proper Debian-way of setting up iptables, see http://wiki.debian.org/iptables or ask me about <iptables-restore>. http://netfilter.org/ #netfilter on irc.freenode.net. See also <ferm>, <lartc>, <masq>, <ulogd>. |
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| 09:23.48 | _wrksx | Sandlayth, ty I was just lookin indo how to delete by inode |
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| 09:24.05 | _wrksx | but a friend just manage to remove it using rm ?\:q |
| 09:24.28 | _wrksx | i worked while rm '?:q' wouldn't worked |
| 09:24.36 | _wrksx | no idea what was goin on |
| 09:24.40 | _wrksx | ty guys |
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| 09:32.45 | blackflow | looking back, ?\:q might've worked as a regex indeed. next time look into using inodes, it's way more precise. |
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| 09:51.43 | afidegnum | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:54.38 | Schiziot | afidegnum: just a lucky shot until somebody else picks it up: #local_umask=022 |
| 09:55.08 | Schiziot | means the default is used which results in 0700, right? |
| 09:55.08 | afidegnum | i was hesitating on that, let me check |
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| 09:55.53 | jelly | afidegnum: when connected as normal user or anonymous? Why do you use ftp at all? |
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| 09:56.32 | afidegnum | jelly: both |
| 09:57.03 | afidegnum | well I have my Linux PC, but had problem with my cable, so i decided to share files via FTP |
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| 09:57.52 | jelly | afidegnum: use sftp |
| 09:58.27 | klys | afidegnum, aren't there any files in /home/ftp |
| 09:58.32 | Schiziot | a tricky thing are these offset permissions. a "7" in the config means "0" in the filesystem, right? |
| 09:58.53 | afidegnum | no i m rather using /home/$user |
| 09:58.58 | Schiziot | and "2" translates to "5" |
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| 09:59.19 | klys | afidegnum, does it let you upload too |
| 09:59.50 | afidegnum | i haven't tried the uploading yet, since i can't list the directories and files, |
| 10:00.07 | klys | afidegnum, grep ftp /etc/passwd |
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| 10:02.18 | afidegnum | ftp:x:14:11::/srv/ftp:/sbin/nologin |
| 10:02.33 | klys | afidegnum, ls -ltac /srv/ftp |
| 10:03.06 | afidegnum | dr-xr-xr-x 2 root ftp 4096 Dec 15 16:09 . |
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| 10:03.07 | afidegnum | drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Dec 15 16:09 .. |
| 10:03.11 | klys | okok |
| 10:03.40 | klys | you might want to mkdir /home/ftp; touch /home/ftp/0001; touch /srv/ftp/0002 and login again |
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| 10:04.17 | Schiziot | i want an ftp too now |
| 10:04.40 | MrHyde | hello |
| 10:04.41 | klys | schiziot, sftp? |
| 10:04.44 | klys | hi |
| 10:05.20 | MrHyde | any idea why two boxes both on testing, on mine I can find python3.6 but my colleague cant ... |
| 10:06.02 | klys | mrhyde, dpkg -l python; report your versions |
| 10:06.05 | MrHyde | apt-cache search python3.6 is alright on mine but on his he cets only 3.5 and 3.7 |
| 10:06.47 | MrHyde | klys: i have only 2.7.15 |
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| 10:07.01 | MrHyde | didnt install the 3.6 |
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| 10:07.09 | klys | mrhyde, dpkg -l python3 |
| 10:07.12 | MrHyde | but was wondering |
| 10:07.16 | afidegnum | klys: permission denied, should i chown ? |
| 10:07.25 | MrHyde | ii python3 3.7.1-3 |
| 10:07.44 | klys | afidegnum, you can change perms and chown as much as you like, as long as it solves the problem |
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| 10:08.06 | MrHyde | python3.6 is already the newest version (3.6.7-1). |
| 10:08.08 | MrHyde | python3.6 set to manually installed. |
| 10:08.08 | klys | mrhyde, is that on the one with python3.6 ? |
| 10:08.26 | MrHyde | that's on my box |
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| 10:08.42 | klys | it seems you have a python3.6 leftover and also a python3.7 binary probably |
| 10:08.50 | MrHyde | on his we cant see the python3.6 pkg with a search |
| 10:09.16 | klys | do you need python3.6 ? |
| 10:09.19 | klys | ,v python3 |
| 10:09.20 | judd | Package: python3 on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.2.3-6; jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.7.2-1; sid: 3.7.2-1 |
| 10:09.32 | MrHyde | yep |
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| 10:10.30 | MrHyde | he's compiling it right now but was wondering why he cant find it ... |
| 10:10.49 | klys | mrhyde, it seems you will have to browse the pool for those packages. http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/python3.6 |
| 10:10.56 | afidegnum | kygus: no luck.. the feedback im having is "150 here comes directory listing" "500 OOPS" |
| 10:11.56 | MrHyde | klys: thanks |
| 10:12.13 | klys | afidegnum, you may need to start the ftpd binary by hand (su ftp) with strace and pipe all stderr output to a file that you would browse with your pager. |
| 10:13.29 | afidegnum | klys: su ftp comes with authentication failure, is there an appropriate command? |
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| 10:14.01 | klys | afidegnum, sudo su ftp; after providing user ftp with a shell such as /bin/sh |
| 10:14.59 | afidegnum | "This account is currently not available." |
| 10:15.09 | Schiziot | what goodies to share now that sources.debian.org exists :P |
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| 10:15.53 | Schiziot | thanks to the people who worked on that project |
| 10:15.54 | klys | afidegnum, edit your passwd file directl if you mean to do as I described. ftp:x:14:11::/srv/ftp:/bin/sh |
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| 10:17.58 | afidegnum | ? |
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| 10:18.51 | klys | afidegnum, change the line in /etc/passwd then you can start strace on ftpd after sudo su ftp |
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| 10:21.36 | mynameisjohn | Hi all |
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| 10:21.42 | Schiziot | hello |
| 10:21.43 | klys | hi |
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| 10:22.21 | mynameisjohn | I was here a few days ago with a RAM issue (added two more DIMM slots of RAM into the PC, and whenever i open Chromium (or probably any other large executable that uses a lot of memory) the system freezes, although usually the mouse can still move |
| 10:22.28 | Schiziot | nominates Penguin_ for cool vhost award |
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| 10:22.41 | mynameisjohn | I ran memtest86+ from a boot disk, checked the RAM, and apparently there are no issues |
| 10:22.52 | mynameisjohn | So now i think it really is a software issue and not a hardware issue : |
| 10:22.56 | afidegnum | klys: i will come back and resume |
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| 10:23.37 | klys | mynameisjohn, do you have swap space too? |
| 10:23.56 | mynameisjohn | uh |
| 10:23.58 | mynameisjohn | ... |
| 10:24.02 | mynameisjohn | maybe not O-O |
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| 10:24.07 | mynameisjohn | I haven't looked |
| 10:24.16 | at0m | mynameisjohn: easy check: remove the 2 new DIMMs. problem persists? install the new ones remove old ones? problem persists? |
| 10:24.26 | mynameisjohn | The system worked well for a long time with just 2Gb of RAM. I added another 2Gb of exactly the same type |
| 10:24.48 | mynameisjohn | I've tried every combo of DIMM and they all work, so long as there is only two of them |
| 10:24.57 | mynameisjohn | doesn't matter the slots or the sticks used |
| 10:25.08 | mynameisjohn | And 4 will boot, but eventually freeze |
| 10:25.15 | at0m | then you can start swapping one old for one new, and later swap these 2 again. you'll know which DIMM is at fault. |
| 10:25.18 | at0m | if any |
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| 10:25.39 | mynameisjohn | I don't think any DIMM is at fault, because i put them all in all the DIMMs, ran memtest86+, no issues |
| 10:25.53 | mynameisjohn | Ran that 7x over just to make sure |
| 10:26.01 | at0m | ok |
| 10:26.09 | mynameisjohn | I also blew them out with a lot of compressed air |
| 10:26.31 | klys | mynameisjohn, you could create a swap file; dd if=/dev/zero of=/root/dat/swap.swp bs=1048576 count=2048; mkswap /root/dat/swap.swp; swapon /root/dat/swap.swp; cat /proc/swaps; top; (meanwhile): dbus-launch chromium & |
| 10:26.42 | mynameisjohn | I'll give that a try right now :) |
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| 10:28.52 | mynameisjohn | Am i still online? I've moved quite far from the wifi |
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| 10:28.56 | klys | yes |
| 10:29.09 | mynameisjohn | great :) |
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| 10:30.57 | mynameisjohn | so "cat /proc/swaps" shows Filename="/dev/dm-2", Type="partition", Size="1835004", Used="0", Priority="-1" |
| 10:31.07 | klys | looks right |
| 10:31.16 | mynameisjohn | And i have 4Gb of RAM now, not 2Gb, so maybe since my swap < ram, this is happening? |
| 10:31.32 | mynameisjohn | I had that to begin with though, i haven't run the mkswp yet |
| 10:31.36 | mynameisjohn | ah ok |
| 10:31.45 | mynameisjohn | maybe i should just reinstall the OS? |
| 10:31.51 | mynameisjohn | With 4Gb to begin with? |
| 10:31.54 | klys | well chromium isn't too much of a hog when you first start it |
| 10:32.05 | mynameisjohn | oh |
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| 10:32.20 | mynameisjohn | The system has frozen and i haven't even opened chromium yet, just the terminal |
| 10:32.34 | mynameisjohn | yeah the mouse works but not the keyboard |
| 10:32.35 | klys | okok |
| 10:32.38 | klys | what version is your kernel |
| 10:32.50 | mynameisjohn | i'll reboot and find out :) |
| 10:34.13 | klys | kernel 5.0 should be released any day now, 4.20.11 is still on track for linux stable. |
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| 10:34.47 | mynameisjohn | Debian GNU/Linux 9.7 (strech) |
| 10:34.56 | rant | uname -r |
| 10:34.56 | mynameisjohn | stretch |
| 10:34.59 | klys | stretch has a kernel |
| 10:35.12 | mynameisjohn | 4.9.0-7-amd64 |
| 10:35.13 | klys | it's the numbers after vmlinuz- |
| 10:35.15 | klys | ok |
| 10:35.28 | klys | try dding some things to your kcmdline: |
| 10:35.33 | blackflow | klys: "on track for linux stable"? |
| 10:35.34 | rant | your kernel is out of date, but it probably has nothing to do with your issue |
| 10:35.42 | mynameisjohn | hm |
| 10:36.01 | klys | adding*: irqpoll noacpi noapic |
| 10:36.20 | klys | can you do that? it should be on the same line as vmlinuz |
| 10:36.22 | mynameisjohn | klys: sorry, i'm not so good at this low level stuff. dd is for writing disk images right? |
| 10:36.29 | mynameisjohn | or... something |
| 10:36.31 | klys | I meant adding |
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| 10:36.48 | klys | you just basically go to the entry and press `e'. |
| 10:36.51 | rant | its like the blind leading the blind |
| 10:36.57 | blackflow | lolyeah |
| 10:36.57 | mynameisjohn | i also don't really know much about vmlinuz |
| 10:36.58 | mynameisjohn | hahaha |
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| 10:37.18 | rant | doesnt matter its not called that anyhow |
| 10:37.23 | klys | blackflow, that's the current stable at kernel.org |
| 10:37.33 | rant | the line in question starts with "linux" |
| 10:37.55 | Schiziot | let rant run the debian channels |
| 10:38.04 | blackflow | klys: right. thought you meant "on track for debian stable", which it isn't |
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| 10:39.10 | rant | mynameisjohn: are you using a desktop environment? |
| 10:39.10 | klys | in that case it would be gnu/linux =) |
| 10:39.14 | mynameisjohn | rant yup |
| 10:39.21 | mynameisjohn | XCFE |
| 10:39.21 | rant | mynameisjohn: which one? |
| 10:39.23 | mynameisjohn | or XFCE |
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| 10:40.28 | klys | mynameisjohn, are you still at the grub menu? |
| 10:40.28 | mynameisjohn | Because the system only had 2Gb of RAM to start, i went minimal. But i need a browser to access my server app, and, eh |
| 10:40.48 | rant | well the process montior in xfce isn't quite as easy to read as the one in say MATE, but perhpas you could try htop, it runs in a terminal |
| 10:40.54 | mynameisjohn | klys: oh i got all that data from terminal from the Desktop, but it's frozen again. I can reboot into Grub menu now |
| 10:41.04 | rant | chances are you're just running out of memory |
| 10:41.16 | klys | it's only advised to have extra swap partition room if you mean to hibernate. |
| 10:41.51 | mynameisjohn | rant: ah, well, the whole system works absolutely fine with 2Gb of RAM |
| 10:42.01 | klys | so, at the grub menu, press e |
| 10:42.06 | mynameisjohn | any 2 Gb of the 4 that i have, in any two DIMM slots of the same colour |
| 10:42.08 | klys | and move your cursor to linux |
| 10:42.19 | klys | and go to the end of the line to the right |
| 10:42.20 | mynameisjohn | actually i haven't tried different DIMM colours, or 3Gb |
| 10:42.37 | rant | @.@ |
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| 10:42.43 | mynameisjohn | yah |
| 10:42.44 | klys | and add this: irqpoll noacpi noapic |
| 10:42.47 | mynameisjohn | klys ok trying |
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| 10:43.08 | rant | mynameisjohn: the different color slots are different channels, you WANT it in two different colors because it runs faster that way |
| 10:43.28 | rant | mynameisjohn: however sounds to me like you're not real savvy and may be setting something up wrong |
| 10:43.31 | mynameisjohn | wait WHAT?! |
| 10:43.36 | mynameisjohn | my whole life is a lie.... |
| 10:43.47 | mynameisjohn | I thought you had to fill up a channel before using another |
| 10:43.49 | mynameisjohn | hahaa |
| 10:44.06 | rant | mynameisjohn: no, in many boards you just have to match pairs in each channel |
| 10:44.33 | klys | the line says: linux vmlinuz-4.9.0-7-amd64 root=... irqpoll noacpi noapic |
| 10:44.33 | rant | mynameisjohn: most can run in both channels without matched pairs but will not in fact run in dual-channel mode that way |
| 10:44.47 | klys | and then you press F10 to boot it |
| 10:44.51 | mynameisjohn | ok so, GRUB 2.02-beta3-5+deb9u1 |
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| 10:45.02 | mynameisjohn | Debian GNU/Linux is highlighted |
| 10:45.08 | klys | hit e here |
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| 10:45.26 | klys | and it will give you a text editor |
| 10:45.27 | mynameisjohn | er |
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| 10:45.33 | mynameisjohn | "e" doesn't seem to do anything |
| 10:45.37 | mynameisjohn | weird, it did before |
| 10:45.41 | klys | mm I forget then |
| 10:45.50 | mynameisjohn | oh i had CAPs on |
| 10:46.03 | klys | okok |
| 10:46.12 | rant | mynameisjohn: we have various names for this.. PEBKAC, PICNIC.. : |
| 10:46.29 | blackflow | rant: PICNIC? |
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| 10:46.56 | rant | Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair / Problem In Chair Not In Computer |
| 10:47.33 | Haohmaru | "don't adjust your TV.." |
| 10:47.33 | blackflow | yeah I know PEBKAC/PEBCAK, wasn't sure about PICNIC :) |
| 10:47.55 | klys | > Each line in the menu entry can be edited freely, and you can add new lines by pressing RET at the end of a line. To boot the edited entry, press Ctrl-x. |
| 10:47.56 | fling | How to skip installing adwaita-icon-theme and other big packages on a minimal install |
| 10:48.41 | mynameisjohn | ok on that line that has "linux /vmlinus-4.9.0... root=/dev/mapper/tenne--vg-root ro quiet |
| 10:48.49 | klys | yes |
| 10:48.58 | klys | add this: irqpoll noacpi noapic |
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| 10:49.00 | mynameisjohn | so after the quiet i'll add irqpoll noacpi noapic |
| 10:49.04 | klys | yes |
| 10:49.09 | mynameisjohn | got it :) thanks |
| 10:49.24 | klys | then boot with F10 or ctrl-x I forget which |
| 10:49.30 | rant | fling: don't install a desktop environment, login from terminal after install and manually install a more minimal system |
| 10:50.03 | rant | fling: if you have some idea what it is you want we could probably suggest more minimal metapackages |
| 10:50.03 | mynameisjohn | It says both - but also, wow greta memory |
| 10:50.19 | fling | rant: I'm not installing a DE, I'm connected to a console and trying to install some gui apps but there are lots of deps!! |
| 10:50.26 | mynameisjohn | i'm in |
| 10:50.38 | mynameisjohn | anything you'd like me to type into the terminal? |
| 10:50.43 | klys | mynameisjohn, okay make it crash again |
| 10:50.43 | mynameisjohn | ...other than rm -rf / |
| 10:50.47 | mynameisjohn | ok |
| 10:50.53 | blackflow | (and that woulnd't work anyway) |
| 10:51.08 | mynameisjohn | haha, done. Just had to open chromium |
| 10:51.13 | fling | so how do I skip installing adwaita-icon-theme and other things? |
| 10:51.13 | klys | right-o |
| 10:51.33 | klys | well I guess from this point we just google for it |
| 10:51.42 | mynameisjohn | hahaha, ok ok |
| 10:51.52 | mynameisjohn | it's an old PC, maybe i should just buy a new one |
| 10:51.57 | mynameisjohn | save all of us the trouble |
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| 10:52.04 | mynameisjohn | but i really apprechiate the help |
| 10:52.07 | rant | fling: if the package depends on those packages somewhere down the line, and you don't want them installed you have to satisfy the dependency somehow.. look into equivs perhaps |
| 10:52.21 | rant | fling: it will likely result in something not working.. |
| 10:52.49 | mynameisjohn | i should point out that i am a programmer |
| 10:52.57 | mynameisjohn | i just don't know linux that well |
| 10:53.08 | mynameisjohn | i guess that doesn't make me immune to PBKAS |
| 10:53.09 | blackflow | It's okay, I'm a doctor! |
| 10:54.06 | mynameisjohn | I'm also a doctor, but not medical :P |
| 10:54.21 | mynameisjohn | hahaha, which says a lot more than i wanted to say about my ability to program -_- |
| 10:54.35 | rant | klys: idk what you were after with the IRQ related options, but you need to modify GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub and update-grub and grub-install to make the changes permanent |
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| 10:55.18 | blackflow | only update-grub is really needed (unless installing it for the first time) |
| 10:55.18 | rant | I can only imagine you were assuming this wasn't OOM but i/o wait type issues due to swapping or something |
| 10:55.39 | klys | rant, I think we disproved the point there. it may still apply on 32-bit hardware. |
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| 10:56.20 | blackflow | usually when chrome freezes the whole thing, it's due to gpu (driver) issues |
| 10:56.32 | klys | there ye go |
| 10:56.41 | mynameisjohn | i have onboard gpu |
| 10:56.46 | mynameisjohn | intel or whatever |
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| 10:57.19 | mynameisjohn | and i have to say, the graphics on this machine always sucked. lots of horizontal lines while watching video. but #non-free you know |
| 10:57.35 | mynameisjohn | and on a 2Gb machine i guess that's to be expected |
| 10:57.45 | rant | a gpu lockup would freeze the mouse typically and they said the keyboard doesnt respond but the mouse does |
| 10:58.27 | mynameisjohn | well, the last time it froze when i opened chromium, everything froze. Chromium didn't even load, the loading mouse icon froze and the whole system |
| 10:58.42 | n1ce | I have an R9 390X and my screen have the same issue... |
| 10:58.45 | mynameisjohn | before, the mouse would move around a little, and then the whole system would freeze |
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| 10:59.19 | mynameisjohn | actually, when i came down today to check it after it froze last night and i just left it on, when i came down the screen was all mangled, like blocks of white and static |
| 10:59.29 | mynameisjohn | but who knows when a computer crashes what broke first |
| 10:59.52 | klys | mynameisjohn, do you get that with firefox? |
| 11:00.03 | mynameisjohn | i don't have FF installed, but i'll try that now |
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| 11:01.01 | klys | or, idk: other than chromium, you can probably get that with some other programs |
| 11:01.37 | rant | hands mynameisjohn a SAK |
| 11:03.31 | klys | mynameisjohn, is it a ryzen pc? |
| 11:03.39 | rant | heh |
| 11:04.01 | mynameisjohn | hehe |
| 11:04.40 | klys | ah, it's an old pc. nm. |
| 11:04.44 | mynameisjohn | i put it together myself over the years with parts from older PCs. It was originally a home theater but now it's a security-camera server |
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| 11:05.15 | mynameisjohn | so it's, heh, past it's prime. But still a good machine. 2.4Ghz Intel Core Duo. |
| 11:05.36 | klys | well I had that irqpoll issue on a 320bit amd box from ~2003. |
| 11:05.42 | klys | 32-bit* |
| 11:05.42 | mynameisjohn | 2Gb of RAM *upgraded* to 4Gb, although now it doesn't stay on. Blu-ray burning drive that i burnt all my christmas cash on once and have barely ever used |
| 11:06.33 | mynameisjohn | oh |
| 11:06.41 | mynameisjohn | the screen is doing cool shit, one sec i'll take a photo |
| 11:09.26 | rant | you could also have bad ram, bad PSU, or be over your output wattage |
| 11:09.55 | rant | cause sounds to me like you got the machine doing a lot and messing up when you do something intensive |
| 11:10.47 | rant | I was just looking at a machine earlier on amazon that had a Core i5 and only a 265W PSU for a full mid-tower.. would be real f'n easy to brown out a machine like that adding HW |
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| 11:11.42 | mynameisjohn | oh |
| 11:12.01 | mynameisjohn | i... do have like... 4 HDDs and a Bluray drive in this thing. Could be power |
| 11:12.05 | mynameisjohn | maybe if i unplug some of these HDDs |
| 11:12.57 | mynameisjohn | https://imgur.com/a/map4ZZF |
| 11:13.25 | mynameisjohn | Although since uploading that, the screen has gone back to black, the mouse cursor appeared, and also moves around still |
| 11:13.32 | klys | yeah if you're shopping for a psu this year, it's ~900W |
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| 11:14.16 | mynameisjohn | 500W coolermaster |
| 11:14.46 | klys | when shopping for a psu, i tend to search silent/quiet |
| 11:15.34 | t3st3r | maybe GPU failire, something like loss of contact to GPU/VRAM |
| 11:16.14 | toruvinn | last time i've seen something like this on my scren was fried ram on my GPU |
| 11:16.24 | toruvinn | that was gf7300gs, passively cooled. |
| 11:16.31 | t3st3r | what GPU this thing is? |
| 11:16.45 | klys | t3st3r, interesting. it's integrated intel gfx. |
| 11:17.05 | t3st3r | then it shouldn't have vram and assoc problems... |
| 11:17.14 | toruvinn | yeah. |
| 11:17.17 | rant | mynameisjohn: 7200RPM 3.5" or more like 5400RPM green or something? |
| 11:17.21 | t3st3r | so I guess it wrong idea. |
| 11:18.00 | rant | mynameisjohn: there are sites online that have power consumption calculators or approx usage of various types of devices.. |
| 11:18.33 | mynameisjohn | nope, i unplugged the two unused HDDs and the bluray but it still crashes |
| 11:18.41 | mynameisjohn | although this time it also rebooted, which is unusually |
| 11:19.23 | t3st3r | Maybe DC-DC circuits around GPU are giving up. Are papacitors on MB okay, etc? |
| 11:19.29 | mynameisjohn | oh |
| 11:19.45 | rant | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:19.53 | mynameisjohn | i just remembered, i've hooked this up to my house light circuit |
| 11:19.59 | t3st3r | They can start to have very specific look due to "capacitors plague". |
| 11:20.17 | mynameisjohn | because it's always on. Maybe if i switch over to a regular AC wall outlet instead of tapping a light it might work |
| 11:20.20 | rant | they can be far out of spec without looking any different |
| 11:20.34 | rant | you need an in-circuit esr meter to really know for sure |
| 11:20.47 | t3st3r | Yeah, though most often they do get specific look fortunately. |
| 11:21.37 | t3st3r | current in CPU DC-DC is usually enough to heat 'em further and make them vent eventually. |
| 11:21.49 | rant | thats only if the magic smoke is coming out :P |
| 11:22.09 | rant | the magic smoke doesnt have to come out to make em perform below spec.. it can just dry out |
| 11:22.28 | mynameisjohn | er |
| 11:22.32 | mynameisjohn | ... |
| 11:22.34 | mynameisjohn | it didn't crash. |
| 11:22.37 | mynameisjohn | wtf |
| 11:23.01 | mynameisjohn | The screen resolution is also a bit different. It's like super low quality and zoomed in a little |
| 11:23.34 | klys | mynameisjohn, less /var/log/Xorg.0.log |
| 11:23.49 | klys | it will give a reason for your resolution |
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| 11:26.32 | mynameisjohn | oh, its NVIDIA drivers |
| 11:26.40 | mynameisjohn | i can't get over this electrical socket thing |
| 11:26.49 | mynameisjohn | its not supposed to be different, i wired it myself |
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| 11:27.05 | mynameisjohn | i'm going to bust out the multimeter and see why the power is different |
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| 11:27.21 | klys | the only difference I can see is if it isn't grounded properly |
| 11:27.56 | mynameisjohn | i wired up the ground of the PSU to the ground of the wire, but maybe the wire isn't grounded |
| 11:28.35 | mynameisjohn | is there a way to grab the /var/log/Xorg.0.log file and post it online for you to see? |
| 11:28.45 | mynameisjohn | it's very long and i have no idea what part is important and what is irrelevant |
| 11:28.51 | mynameisjohn | like, from the terminal, somehow |
| 11:28.57 | oiaohm | mynameisjohn: there is a difference between a floating ground and a real ground. |
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| 11:29.32 | klys | there's a program called pastebinit |
| 11:29.39 | mynameisjohn | oiaohm: right right, but this is a house neutral/230v/ground, although |
| 11:29.50 | mynameisjohn | although the cable is a 3-phase cable so actually it might only be 120v |
| 11:29.58 | mynameisjohn | or whatever, i need to check |
| 11:30.14 | mynameisjohn | i can't believe it runs now though |
| 11:30.25 | mynameisjohn | i have stuggled with this for the best part of a week |
| 11:30.38 | mynameisjohn | power supply. who'd have thought. god dammit. |
| 11:30.50 | mynameisjohn | but i'm glad. don't get me wrong i'm glad. but damn. |
| 11:30.58 | mynameisjohn | I'm *really* sorry for wasting everyone's time |
| 11:31.07 | klys | :.) |
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| 11:31.35 | oiaohm | mynameisstupid: some power supplies your DC negitives ie what people would call grounds are meant to be floating grounds. |
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| 11:31.58 | oiaohm | mynameisstupid: and if you start wiring them to normal ground magic issues can happen. |
| 11:32.49 | mynameisstupid | while apt-get install pastebinit, "Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg recevied a segmentation fault |
| 11:32.58 | mynameisstupid | and the sceen is all weird but it isn'T freezing |
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| 11:33.19 | blackflow | mynameisstupid: is dmesg showing the kernel screaming bloody gore about errors? |
| 11:35.18 | klys | most new nvidia cards support function-level reset. that won't help you, though. I guess I was just thinking about restarting Xorg. |
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| 11:41.53 | mynameisstupid | ok it froze again. Wall socket has 236V, light power had 228V, so, i mean, it's possible but unlikely that that is the issue. I think it was a co-incidence |
| 11:41.57 | mynameisstupid | And now i think it's a driver issue |
| 11:42.08 | mynameisstupid | although i don't know how adding RAM would affect a GPU |
| 11:42.18 | t3st3r | 228V should be more than okay. |
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| 11:43.08 | klys | 210-220VAC is standard |
| 11:43.33 | mynameisstupid | ok, hm. |
| 11:43.59 | t3st3r | Most PSUs can live with rather broad range of voltage. Modern things with APFC are even could be full range. |
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| 11:45.17 | SwedeMike | across europe it's everything from 220V-240V standard, and it can even be outside that. A modern switched-mode PSU doesn't care. |
| 11:45.47 | mynameisstupid | the honeybadger of power supply units |
| 11:46.08 | ws2k3 | is it true that on debian 9 aptitude is not installed by default? |
| 11:46.27 | rant | ,i aptitude |
| 11:46.28 | judd | Package aptitude (admin, optional) in stretch/amd64: terminal-based package manager. Version: 0.8.7-1; Size: 1443.2k; Installed: 4452k; Homepage: https://aptitude.alioth.debian.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/aptitude |
| 11:46.39 | rant | ws2k3: its an optional package |
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| 11:51.36 | mynameisstupid | ok, i've reached max drama. I'm going to try re-installing everything and see if that fixes it |
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| 12:16.13 | wwilliam | hello how do i print the line that is not present like so "file $x is not present" the following loop prints everything in the morepdfs file |
| 12:16.34 | wwilliam | while read -r x;do if ! grep -R "$x" . ;then echo "$x was not transfer";fi;done < /home/afernandez/morepdfs |
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| 12:17.17 | cusco | test -e |
| 12:17.41 | wwilliam | ? |
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| 13:00.32 | ws2k3 | what does the -e do in #!/bin/sh -e in /etc/rc.local |
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| 13:11.04 | karlpinc | ws2k3: -e means exit immediately on an error |
| 13:11.17 | karlpinc | ws2k3: Don't keep running the script |
| 13:12.01 | ws2k3 | karlpinc thanks so if i dont want behavior i can just remove -e right? as long as there is an exit 0 at the bottum right? |
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| 13:13.34 | karlpinc | ws2k3: Yes. You don't need an exit 0 at the bottom. It'll exit with the exit status of the last executed command if you leave that out. |
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| 13:40.26 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone, i can't find lex or a package that contains lex |
| 13:40.35 | rocketmagnet | i'm on stable |
| 13:40.47 | rocketmagnet | is bison the new lex ? |
| 13:40.56 | rocketmagnet | or flex ? |
| 13:41.09 | rocketmagnet | flex is the ne lex .. is that right ? |
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| 13:42.04 | esr | saw a reference to an in-circuit esr meter and was amused. |
| 13:42.38 | esr | flex is the new lex. bison is the new yacc. |
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| 13:45.27 | jelly | where "new" like "25 years old" |
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| 13:49.57 | jelly | ,file bin/lex |
| 13:50.02 | judd | Search for bin/lex in stretch/amd64: flex-old: usr/bin/lex; flex: usr/bin/lex |
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| 14:16.16 | altker128 | question: Is there a utility I can use to browse a remote apt repository that doesn't have a web front-end enabled? |
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| 14:17.12 | altker128 | This is for a different architecture (ARM) than my current machine ; but I'm trying to grab a deb and unpack it |
| 14:17.39 | Brigo | altker128, ftp? |
| 14:18.05 | Brigo | altker128, you can use apt for that, just with -d (download only) |
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| 14:18.45 | Kobaz | sooooo, how would i see what process is sending another process a SIGTERM |
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| 14:19.01 | ksk | you dont afaik. |
| 14:20.23 | Kobaz | i know there's tracing/profiling stuff you can hook into, i can't think of the name of the subsystem |
| 14:21.23 | blackflow | Kobaz: auditing? Like with AppArmor? |
| 14:21.44 | Kobaz | oh |
| 14:21.45 | Kobaz | i figured it out |
| 14:21.46 | Kobaz | ugh |
| 14:21.49 | Kobaz | god damn systemd |
| 14:21.52 | Kobaz | Feb 22 09:20:31 asterisk01 systemd: asterisk.service start operation timed out. Terminating. |
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| 14:22.04 | blackflow | Kobaz: you should know better. |
| 14:22.12 | Kobaz | well, this isn't my system |
| 14:22.20 | blackflow | I meant flooding |
| 14:22.24 | Kobaz | :P |
| 14:22.46 | blackflow | as to the problem, it's probably not systemd's fault. what exactly is happening, what are you expecting instead? |
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| 14:24.34 | Kobaz | meh |
| 14:24.35 | Kobaz | well |
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| 14:24.50 | Kobaz | asterisk *is* starting properly |
| 14:24.54 | Kobaz | systemd doesn't think so, it kills it |
| 14:25.15 | blackflow | Kobaz: is it _configured_ properly for systemd to recognize that? |
| 14:25.22 | Kobaz | who knows |
| 14:25.28 | Kobaz | it's not my system, but... we baby sit it |
| 14:25.32 | blackflow | see, vast majority of "goddamn systemd" issues are due to bad config, misunderstanding systemd or bad distro defaults |
| 14:25.39 | Kobaz | all i know is 'everything was fine' yesterday |
| 14:26.19 | blackflow | is there a TimeoutStartSec limit? |
| 14:26.59 | Kobaz | sooooo |
| 14:27.16 | Kobaz | <--- systemd newb.... where would that setting be located |
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| 14:29.37 | blackflow | oic. well, systemctl status asterisk.service (or whatever the unit name is) will show you origin of the unit. probably /lib/systemd/system/... with optional overrides under /etc/systemd/system/... |
| 14:30.07 | blackflow | you could also check what systemd sees (effective config after any overrides) with systemctl cat <service name> |
| 14:30.21 | Kobaz | so basically what i did for the moment, since these people are screaming... was stop/disable asterisk and start it manually |
| 14:30.28 | blackflow | and theres #systemd here on Freenode should you need more help about systemd |
| 14:30.28 | Kobaz | so, current disaster averted, now we can debug |
| 14:30.43 | Kobaz | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:31.41 | Kobaz | no TimeoutStartSec |
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| 14:31.57 | Kobaz | i have this though: Restart=on-failure RestartSec=1 |
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| 14:32.51 | blackflow | Kobaz: do you know what those directives do? |
| 14:33.52 | Kobaz | looks like RestartSec is duration in between restarts |
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| 14:34.07 | Kobaz | those look like the only restart related options that set set... no other timeouts, etc |
| 14:34.14 | blackflow | Kobaz: btw, please pastebin the output of `systemctl cat asterisk.service`, as well as `journalctl -u asterisk.service -n 20` (assuming last 20 lines would suffice) |
| 14:35.56 | Kobaz | https://pastebin.com/eLHTgVtB https://pastebin.com/3p73cayM |
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| 14:35.57 | jmcnaught | It's odd that the service unit is in /usr/lib/systemd when Debian doesn't put unit files there |
| 14:36.06 | Kobaz | oh, right |
| 14:36.11 | Kobaz | it's umm... not debian |
| 14:36.37 | Kobaz | i just was like, oh crap things are dieing... where should i ask about systemd.... oh here! |
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| 14:37.00 | jmcnaught | probably better to ask in the distro's channel, or an asterisk or systemd channel |
| 14:37.19 | Kobaz | asterisk part i got.. that's not the issue |
| 14:37.29 | blackflow | Kobaz: that's okay. I'm bored so I'll waste your time some more with debian specific solutions. |
| 14:37.33 | Kobaz | it's systemd and it's penchent for restarting a perfectly good service |
| 14:38.07 | blackflow | Kobaz: I thought ou said you were systemd noob? or you have actual experience in order to be able to say there's a .... "penchent for restarting a perfectly good service"? |
| 14:38.14 | blackflow | can't be both |
| 14:38.24 | Kobaz | i'm not an asterisk noob |
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| 14:38.40 | blackflow | nor did I say that. please re-read what I said. |
| 14:38.50 | Kobaz | that's my thing.. that's why we're maintaing this system... i KNOW asterisk. that's not the issue. Yes asterisk is a perfectly good service. IT's 100% operational and gets restarted by systemd |
| 14:39.05 | Kobaz | i'm backing up my statement of restarting a perfectly good service |
| 14:39.33 | Kobaz | so yeah, i'll go bug the #systemd peoples |
| 14:39.33 | blackflow | Kobaz: so other than those warnings, is there another log which might explain its startup problems? |
| 14:39.41 | ksk | please rant in #systemd, thanks. |
| 14:39.47 | blackflow | indee.d |
| 14:39.59 | Kobaz | the warnings are fine... the vendor who built this system didn't set up everything in the 'new way' to avoid the warnings |
| 14:40.33 | blackflow | Kobaz: the unit says Type=notify. Do you know what that means and why systemd would be sensitive about thinking asterisk is in failure mode? |
| 14:41.03 | Kobaz | I don't know what type=notify is, i can look that one up |
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| 14:41.28 | blackflow | Kobaz: well basically, it is asterisk itself that signals systemd about startup success or failure |
| 14:42.05 | Kobaz | well, if you run the normal command line to start asteirsk on this system, the return is success/0 |
| 14:42.23 | Kobaz | which is exactly what I did to rescue the system... shut down the service in systemd and start it manually |
| 14:42.27 | blackflow | Kobaz: "normal"? is that via systemctl? |
| 14:42.45 | Kobaz | not sure what it returns via running from systemctl, not sure how to debug that |
| 14:43.00 | blackflow | or did you use the "service" command which is... uhm.... systemctl |
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| 14:43.04 | Coosh | window 5 |
| 14:43.09 | blackflow | or do you actually have an init script there too? |
| 14:43.22 | blackflow | (thought that success/0 looks like systemd) |
| 14:43.59 | Kobaz | basically, here's what I did... service asterisk stop.. /usr/sbin/asterisk -g -f -U asterisk (same commandline as systemd cfg)... echo $? : 0 |
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| 14:44.29 | blackflow | Kobaz: well that's not really the same thing, there's no systemd FDs for notify |
| 14:44.37 | Kobaz | right, it's very manual |
| 14:44.44 | blackflow | shoudl really investigate why asterisk is singalling failure |
| 14:44.47 | Kobaz | just saying what i've done so far |
| 14:46.24 | blackflow | and I'm telling you why systemd is doing what it's doing. It is TOLD SO. By the unit file (restart on failure, which it'll retry a few times and then hard fail, it's not gonna loop forever), and by asterisk itself. |
| 14:46.45 | blackflow | now, look up the logs and see if it says anythign there, and continue this in your distro specific channel please. or #systemd. |
| 14:47.17 | Kobaz | right, but what is failing, is the question |
| 14:47.18 | Kobaz | it's not asterisk |
| 14:47.57 | blackflow | it most likely is asterisk and Type=notify |
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| 14:48.11 | Kobaz | i'll check out the type=notify stuff |
| 14:48.15 | blackflow | some daemons require explicit configuration option to know they're run under Type=notify. is that the case with asterisk? |
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| 14:48.40 | eksegenis | # safe_asterisk runs Asterisk in a virtual console. This allows easy |
| 14:48.40 | eksegenis | # access to the asterisk command-line without logging it. |
| 14:49.10 | blackflow | you can also change that to Type=simple (or just comment out #Type, that's default) to achieve the same thing as your command line |
| 14:49.20 | blackflow | but eh... really, not a #debian issue. |
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| 14:52.22 | Kobaz | right |
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| 14:52.37 | Kobaz | agreed, just the first place i started asking |
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| 14:53.41 | jelly | blackflow: a suboptimal service definition provided by the distro _is_ a #debian issue if the distro is, in fact, Debian |
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| 14:56.50 | jelly | but debian usually takes some minimum care not to ship broken-by-default service unit definitions |
| 14:57.01 | Kobaz | yeap |
| 14:57.21 | blackflow | jelly: but we're told it isn't, so... |
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| 15:06.04 | jelly | !spank Kobaz |
| 15:06.05 | dpkg | bends Kobaz over his knee and delivers a mighty *THWACK* |
| 15:07.22 | Kobaz | thanks! |
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| 15:08.26 | Kobaz | mmm |
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| 15:15.38 | muhaha | How is started pulseaudio in debian ? I am using lightdm, seems that arch has a target https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#Running |
| 15:16.18 | muhaha | or should I just put pulseaudio --start to .xsession ? |
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| 15:19.50 | ksk | muhaha: pulseaudio seems to be started via systemd in debian, too. Its running on my fcxcfce installODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODODAnd OCi |
| 15:20.12 | ksk | dafuq. ignore these characters.. |
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| 15:21.29 | ksk | oh nvm, it seems not. systemctl status shows every process, did not know. |
| 15:21.46 | ksk | seems to be started via my sessionsmanager. but I did not have to edit anything, seems to be default for xfce. |
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| 15:23.38 | OerHeks | systemctl enable --user pulseaudio.service |
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| 15:25.09 | muhaha | oh, thanks |
| 15:25.16 | muhaha | Why --user space ? |
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| 15:26.26 | ksk | because you want X related stuff (and I think pulseaudio is) in the users context. |
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| 15:26.54 | OerHeks | not sure --user is demandatory, but it works for me |
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| 15:27.26 | OerHeks | this 'enable' makes the service start on boot |
| 15:29.42 | ayekat | muhaha: the wiki article there actually mentions that it's a user service |
| 15:31.19 | ayekat | or rather, a user socket, which then starts the user service |
| 15:31.22 | muhaha | Thanks. Still its not working for me.. (Yes, I am that guy who want to run X11 app with flatpak on debian stretch without DE). Pulseaudio is running now, but I am not sure its connectable for user autologed with lightdm |
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| 15:35.09 | blackflow | muhaha: tht was about kodi? its' been days now.... wouldn't it have been better if you just installed a regular desktop, even if it's in server role? |
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| 15:36.31 | muhaha | Maybe |
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| 16:14.37 | Old_Dog | slips in as quietly as he can |
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| 16:26.06 | leonlemouton | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH1zO2xI8KA |
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| 16:26.36 | leonlemouton | hi ! listen. I can help. No matter. |
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| 16:32.48 | leonlemouton | I love mate and lxqt. |
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| 16:51.54 | hetOrakel | Hi all, i posted this question about 2 weeks back in the Xen channel and they directed me here. I thought i solved the problem but i can reproduce it 100%. When i detach a bcache Debian crashes. Please see take a look in here: http://paste.debian.net/1069678/ |
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| 16:57.50 | Tenkawa | yay now I have a fast linux dual boot portable system again with good amount of storage |
| 16:58.03 | Tenkawa | that usb stick was reallly messing my system up |
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| 17:06.25 | jelly | hetOrakel: file a bug report against linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64 package after checking whether there's already a matching one. You might also ask in #bcache channel on irc.oftc.net if there is a known bug in 4.9.130 |
| 17:07.08 | jelly | longterm kernel branches like 4.9 do not always get all the fixes |
| 17:09.11 | jelly | hetOrakel: you can also try the 4.19 build from stretch-backports if you're in a hurry |
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| 17:21.07 | poseid | hello... I have a unix rsync question.... where could i ask it? |
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| 17:23.01 | somiaj | poseid: if it is about rsync on debian systems, here is fine. If you want to ask about generic linux, there is also ##linux |
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| 17:25.01 | jelly | !ask |
| 17:25.02 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 17:47.41 | muhaha | Is dbus launched with lightdm by default ? |
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| 17:49.37 | jelly | muhaha: dbus runs at boot, before login |
| 17:50.44 | muhaha | I have a problem that user autologged with lightdm has no access to dbus ( and pulseaudio) Any idea? |
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| 17:52.23 | jelly | muhaha: autologged in to what kind of session? |
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| 17:53.46 | muhaha | Xsession |
| 17:54.09 | jelly | if I log in to a KDE session on Debian 9, at some point "systemd --user" gets started, and it spawns both a "dbus-daemon --user" and a pulseaudio. I don't have a global, system pulseaudio process at all. |
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| 17:58.15 | jelly | muhaha: so you pick "Default Xsession" in lightdm? Is this a fresh install of Debian 9 or an upgrade? |
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| 18:01.15 | muhaha | Its fresh Stretch server install without any DE, just lightdm greeter... I am using xsession to run X11 app. But It has no access to dbus and pulseaudio |
| 18:01.41 | muhaha | User is in groups: dialout cdrom audio dip video plugdev users input pulse-access |
| 18:02.27 | jelly | muhaha: does systemd --user get started? |
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| 18:06.39 | muhaha | ps -ef | grep [p]ulseaudio root 1658 1655 0 17:38 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --daemonize=no |
| 18:06.42 | muhaha | yes |
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| 18:14.29 | muhaha | jelly: or what do you mean? |
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| 18:20.10 | jelly | muhaha: is there a process matching ps -ef | grep 'systemd --user' ? |
| 18:21.44 | muhaha | yes |
| 18:23.08 | muhaha | 'dbus-daemon --user' is not running... pulseaudio is running, because I did systemd --user enable pulseaudio |
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| 18:23.58 | jelly | sorry, that one should probably look like "dbus-daemon --session" ... not --user |
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| 18:24.58 | jelly | muhaha: do things work better if you stop and disable the global pulseaudio service, and log off and on again? |
| 18:25.16 | muhaha | This is running: message+ 534 1 0 19:20 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --address=systemd: --nofork --nopidfile --systemd-activation |
| 18:26.01 | jelly | that's global dbus |
| 18:26.23 | OerHeks | oops, i gave bad advise :-( |
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| 18:26.54 | muhaha | In this case,... I have no other dbus process running |
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| 18:28.58 | jelly | muhaha: okay... can you enable user dbus.service just like you did with user pulseaudio |
| 18:29.24 | jelly | perhaps there are undeclared dependencies |
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| 18:31.00 | jelly | has no idea how these things are supposed to be enabled manually |
| 18:31.28 | jelly | muhaha: and then log off and back on I suppose |
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| 18:34.51 | muhaha | systemctl --user enable dbus.service Failed to enable unit: File dbus.service: No such file or directory |
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| 18:35.30 | muhaha | systemctl enable dbus.service -> https://pastebin.com/wtqzaD9k |
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| 18:38.03 | jelly | don't mess with global dbus, noone asked for that |
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| 18:39.24 | jelly | muhaha: is dbus-user-session package installed? |
| 18:40.21 | jelly | if not, install it, reboot, see how things fare |
| 18:41.13 | jelly | there's a /etc/X11/Xsession.d/20dbus_xdg-runtime so that bit probably starts it from Xsession |
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| 18:46.08 | jelly | muhaha: dunno if that's the useful one or dbus-x11 |
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| 18:50.50 | muhaha | its started now, but pulseaudio still not working. |
| 18:51.42 | jelly | did you disable the global one |
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| 18:51.58 | jelly | (global pulseaudio service) |
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| 18:52.51 | jelly | away for a while, sorry |
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| 18:55.10 | muhaha | systemctl --user status pulseaudio.service -> this is enabled |
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| 19:02.20 | nidhoegger | Hi, i am currently creating a package for a server that also will play sound. I have created a new user for that purpose and added him to the audio group. unfortunately, I cannot, from command line, enumerate the audio devices with SDL. Is there a group or an access right I am missing? |
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| 19:08.01 | nidhoegger | or will I need to put pulseaudio in system mode for that? |
| 19:09.31 | muhaha | alsa or pulseaudio? There is also pulseaudi-access group |
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| 19:15.13 | nidhoegger | sorry, if someone wrote me something, my internet broke down (LTE) |
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| 19:57.12 | star314 | After an update to the latest version of Debian stretch yesterday, firewall logs, which normally go to /var/log/kern.log, start to flood dmesg. Any idea where I should look in order to disable this behavior? |
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| 19:58.59 | jhutchins | star314: What firewall? |
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| 20:00.10 | star314 | jhutchins: Shorewall. Everything was fine before the update. |
| 20:00.35 | star314 | As far as I remember, the update involved a kernel update and a systemd update. |
| 20:01.22 | star314 | I guess this behavior is related to the systemd update |
| 20:01.28 | jhutchins | I'd start with the docs for shorewall then, including the changelog. |
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| 20:02.33 | star314 | hmm, I can take a look at, but there was definitely no update of the shorewall package |
| 20:03.40 | jhutchins | Well, the docs should tell you what the log mechanism is, and obviously kernel & systemd changelogs. |
| 20:03.47 | Old_Dog | makes a dash for the door while nobody is looking gone! |
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| 20:48.11 | xormor | hello. why is icedtea-netx "pending"/"waiting" to be upgraded, not upgraded right away after I have tried to upgrade the system? |
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| 20:50.13 | xormor | if I remove icedtea-netx will my browser still be able to do banking and the normal stuff, like Facebook etc? I don't play Java games anymore |
| 20:50.18 | muhaha | jelly: are You here? I solved pulseaudio issues with putting pulseaudio --start && /usr/bin/myx11app to .xsession, seems that systemctl --user enable/start pulseaudio does not work in this case. I dont know why :X |
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| 21:05.15 | thavlik | How can I add the sid repository to my fresh stretch install? I am wanting to install this https://packages.debian.org/sid/llvm-7 |
| 21:05.42 | thavlik | I've been modifying /etc/apt/sources.list and have had no luck |
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| 21:06.04 | thavlik | `deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main unstable` complains about no `unstable` release being in the repo |
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| 21:10.09 | blackflow | thavlik: that's not correct usage.... "unstable" aka sid would be in place of "stretch". there's no component "unstable". |
| 21:10.43 | blackflow | https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList |
| 21:10.48 | thavlik | blackflow, I am wanting to install that software. The documentation for debian is *very* unclear about how to do this. It says a few words on it and provides precisely zero examples |
| 21:11.03 | blackflow | thavlik: this link explains it |
| 21:11.26 | thavlik | blackflow, and provides no examples |
| 21:11.33 | blackflow | thavlik: meanwhile.... not sure you should be using sid, being unable to find this information on your own. |
| 21:11.35 | thavlik | I have no idea what this one value needs to be :) |
| 21:12.00 | blackflow | did you read the link? it explains ALL parts of the source entries |
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| 21:12.02 | thavlik | I know what is going on here. I've read that twice. I've tried a handful of things that are tangential to what it suggests |
| 21:12.05 | thavlik | Yes. Did you? |
| 21:12.18 | thavlik | I have definitely RTFM on this one. It is insufficient. |
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| 21:13.14 | thavlik | guess I'll just wait for twelve hours while I build llvm from the source |
| 21:13.33 | blackflow | thavlik: which part of this you ahve problems understanding? "The 'distribution' can be either the release code name / alias (jessie, stretch, buster, sid) or the release class (oldstable, stable, testing, unstable) respectively." |
| 21:13.42 | apteryx | hello! Where can I find the sources (VCVS) for the GCC package of Debian 9 ? |
| 21:13.48 | apteryx | I tried Salsa, but I'm lost. |
| 21:14.04 | blackflow | thavlik: given this format of the sources entry, from that same page: "deb http://site.example.com/debian distribution component1 component2 component3" |
| 21:14.21 | blackflow | thavlik: so if you want unstable aka sid, which of those you think you should replace? |
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| 21:14.44 | blackflow | really if you can't do that, then sid is NOT for you. start stable, get used to it, familiar with internals, before you go unstable. |
| 21:15.15 | zleap | hi |
| 21:15.22 | siloxid | can anyone recommend a terminal emulator that goes to the next tab with C-Tab and to the previous tab with C-Shift-Tab? |
| 21:15.49 | blackflow | apteryx: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gcc-defaults (has links to "browse source code") |
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| 21:16.22 | thavlik | blackflow, thanks. That is literally all I wanted to know. |
| 21:16.44 | blackflow | thavlik: that's copy pasted from that link |
| 21:16.59 | zleap | seem to have an odd issue with my desktop (deb 9, + xfce) in that the wall paper seems to be shifted to the right |
| 21:17.36 | zleap | however that leaves about a 1.5" gap on the left, the file manager window won't move past that left edge, but the panel is shown unless I click in that blank area |
| 21:17.43 | thavlik | blackflow, it was unclear if I wanted to REPLACE the repo for my distribution or include sid with it. Only by your suggestion has it been made clear that this is what is _necessary_ to accomplish what I am wanting. It did not seem like that was what I wanted before. |
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| 21:18.09 | jhutchins | thavlik: You ADD the src repo for sid. |
| 21:18.10 | thavlik | blackflow, that seems undesirable to include sid packages at the exclusion of stable packages, hence why it is unclear |
| 21:18.18 | thavlik | Oh |
| 21:18.24 | jhutchins | !ssb |
| 21:18.25 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 21:18.48 | blackflow | thavlik: no you can have both, and then explicitly select repo from which you install -- but that's very much advanced use and not recommended unless you know what you're doing |
| 21:18.53 | siloxid` | ^ if anyone responded, please repeat as it looks like I went offline somehow |
| 21:19.02 | blackflow | thavlik: though you'll need one line per "distribution" you want to enable |
| 21:19.03 | jhutchins | thavlik: You should not attempt to install testing or unstable packages on stable. |
| 21:19.10 | thavlik | blackflow, I am fine breaking my install for pedagogical purposes |
| 21:19.16 | thavlik | jhutchins, this is a fresh install |
| 21:19.18 | blackflow | good luck, then :) |
| 21:19.21 | jhutchins | thavlik: Unless you enjoy doing system re-installs. |
| 21:19.58 | jhutchins | thavlik: The correct way to do it is as above from dpkg. Download the source, build the package against the stable headers and libraries. |
| 21:20.01 | thavlik | jhutchins, nah :) just clone a new image |
| 21:20.20 | thavlik | This is insane |
| 21:20.23 | jhutchins | !frankendebian |
| 21:20.23 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 21:20.42 | thavlik | It's this big of a pain to get a modern binary for LLVM on debian? |
| 21:21.33 | jhutchins | If you put a sid binary repo on your system, you don't have any control of which packages will be updated unless you use pinning. |
| 21:21.52 | jhutchins | !pinning |
| 21:21.52 | dpkg | Pinning is a method to choose which version of a package to install when multiple versions are available from <sources.list>. Bugs are explained at https://web.archive.org/web/20121017070250/http://carlo17.home.xs4all.nl/howto/debian.html#errata . If you use stable, pinning won't help you from messing up the system, ask me about <backports> instead. https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences |
| 21:22.25 | jhutchins | ,v llvm |
| 21:22.26 | judd | Package: llvm on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:3.0-14+nmu2; jessie: 1:3.5-25; stretch: 1:3.8-36; buster: 1:7.0-47; sid: 1:7.0-47 |
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| 21:23.41 | jhutchins | thavlik: If there are significant features or bug fixes, you can request a backport from buster. |
| 21:24.10 | thavlik | jhutchins, sounds like a pain in the ass |
| 21:24.15 | thavlik | to be completely honest |
| 21:24.30 | blackflow | thavlik: the price of stability |
| 21:24.48 | blackflow | but once you're familiar with the process, backporting becomes rather easy |
| 21:25.01 | jhutchins | thavlik: The point of Debian is stable reliability, not bleeding edge development. |
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| 21:25.48 | *** join/#debian AmarOk1412 (~AmarOk@2a00:5881:4008:508::253) |
| 21:25.51 | AmarOk1412 | hi ! |
| 21:26.16 | thavlik | jhutchins, there comes a point where stability is achieved and offering ancient software with no quick or convenient means of acquiring anything newer is simply counterproductive |
| 21:26.29 | *** join/#debian in1t3r_ (~LordShiva@unaffiliated/lordshiva) |
| 21:26.35 | AmarOk1412 | Do you know where can I find the source for the .deb of gcc-6-base (6.3.0-18+deb9u1) |
| 21:26.47 | thavlik | I'm sure manpower has more to do with it than the system itself |
| 21:26.47 | blackflow | thavlik: right tool for the job. if you want bleeding edge, debian stable is not the right tool |
| 21:26.56 | AmarOk1412 | There is a lot of different gcc in salsa |
| 21:27.10 | thavlik | blackflow, I want stable. I also want pre-built binaries that are less than five years old. |
| 21:27.12 | *** join/#debian Barones (~Barones@187.108.42.250) |
| 21:27.13 | jhutchins | tharkun: There are ways to get newer software. If there aren't significant advantages for enough people though, there won't be a backport. |
| 21:27.24 | jhutchins | thavlik: ^ |
| 21:27.29 | jhutchins | tharkun: Sry. |
| 21:27.30 | AmarOk1412 | but the one which seems offical don't have anythin related to 6.3.0-18+deb9u1 |
| 21:27.55 | Tenkawa | AmarOk1412: do you have a deb-src line in sources.list |
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| 21:28.05 | blackflow | thavlik: you have conflicting desires |
| 21:28.11 | AmarOk1412 | and packages.debian.org doesn't seem to have the .tar.gz with the sources |
| 21:28.14 | thavlik | blackflow, not at all conflicting. |
| 21:28.16 | *** join/#debian mtn (~mtn@unaffiliated/mtn) |
| 21:28.28 | zleap | back later need to figure out what this issue is |
| 21:28.44 | jhutchins | thavlik: Yes, "running Debian" and "wanting the latest packages". |
| 21:28.51 | thavlik | jhutchins, not "latest" |
| 21:28.52 | Tenkawa | if there is you should be able to pull it that way |
| 21:29.43 | thavlik | jhutchins, all I am saying is that ideally it shouldn't be this risky or difficult |
| 21:29.44 | blackflow | thavlik: llvm7 was released a few months ago. that's very much too soon for the level of stable reliability Debian aims for. |
| 21:29.49 | blackflow | that's literally bleeding edge |
| 21:29.54 | thavlik | blackflow, I could use older versions |
| 21:30.02 | thavlik | blackflow, that was just the link that was sent to me |
| 21:30.09 | jmcnaught | thavlik: Debian has always had this model. Every couple of years there's a new stable release, but then it's frozen except for security and bug fixes until the next stable release. Also the LLVM in stretch is from 2016 |
| 21:30.24 | thavlik | blackflow, but I am speaking generally. I understand the desires of Debian. If it had more manpower, this would be less of an issue. |
| 21:30.30 | blackflow | thavlik: well buster has 7 and it's about to be released in a few months. |
| 21:30.31 | apteryx | blackflow: aren't there tags for new revisions (releases) ? |
| 21:31.06 | behanw | thavlik: Or just run sid. ;) |
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| 21:31.20 | thavlik | behanw, sounds like what I'll be doing |
| 21:31.39 | behanw | I've been doing it before there was a "stable".... |
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| 21:31.45 | blackflow | thavlik: if that's so important to you, then learn to backport yourself. it's not that hard once you get familiar with it, in fact, you'll laugh how easy it is -- assuming of course you don't have to drag down dependencies from sid or experimental |
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| 21:31.47 | Tenkawa | just wishesh asm-goto support for x86-64 would get added to llvm :( |
| 21:31.59 | Tenkawa | heheheheh |
| 21:32.00 | thavlik | blackflow, just might :) |
| 21:32.02 | behanw | Works fine. Just don't blindly update. Gotta be smart about it |
| 21:32.03 | thavlik | I appreciate the help |
| 21:32.11 | thavlik | guess I'll just build llvm from source |
| 21:32.14 | jhutchins | thavlik: sid is not recommended for regular use. You'd be better off with a different distro that's meant to be run on newer code. |
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| 21:32.19 | behanw | thavlik: That works too |
| 21:32.27 | thavlik | jhutchins, LOL seriously? |
| 21:32.38 | blackflow | thavlik: also consider chroots/containers of pure sid, on otherwise stable debian, for specific purposes |
| 21:32.41 | fredl | hi guys, I've added an IP alias to my br0 interface with the new iproute2 method (so skipping the :1 bla bla) |
| 21:32.59 | fredl | so with 'ip a' I see the *2nd* IP now |
| 21:33.20 | fling | rant: at first I wanted to exclude icon themes |
| 21:33.35 | fredl | But then I added a third alias, identical syntax just different addresses, as the 2nd alias but that does not come up |
| 21:33.43 | fling | Am I out of luck? |
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| 21:34.25 | thavlik | jhutchins, what distro would you recommend |
| 21:34.37 | thavlik | I have had the most luck with debian |
| 21:34.59 | jhutchins | thavlik: I don't really know, the debian derivatives tend to be newer. |
| 21:35.08 | jhutchins | thavlik: There's always Gentoo. |
| 21:35.12 | blackflow | heh |
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| 21:35.31 | fredl | here's my interfaces file: https://termbin.com/elybz |
| 21:35.59 | fredl | So the weird thing.... the 192.168.3.1 IP does show up in 'ip a', but the 192.168.4.1 does not |
| 21:36.12 | jhutchins | I'm at the other end of the spectrum, I run large commercial server farms, and those tend to run long-term-support releases like RHEL (10 yrs). |
| 21:36.31 | jhutchins | thavlik: You might look at Fedora. |
| 21:36.45 | fling | Should I just script something for deleting the files I don't need? |
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| 21:37.04 | blackflow | thavlik: or ubuntu to stay within debian-ish ecosystem. they cut out of sid/unstable every 6 months on the clocl. |
| 21:37.07 | blackflow | *clock |
| 21:37.29 | fredl | Anybody wanna have a look what might be going wrong here? |
| 21:38.05 | thavlik | blackflow, ubuntu is just debian + broken things :) |
| 21:38.34 | blackflow | thavlik: which is what you get when you run sid :) |
| 21:38.41 | phogg | Debian without the rigor. |
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| 21:39.41 | Tenkawa | they all have their +- |
| 21:40.12 | siloxid | debian has never been any rigor for me, in fact some hardware has worked better for me in the past |
| 21:40.15 | thavlik | blackflow, I love linux more than any other OS, but this really isn't a problem on OS X or windows. And I do think it is fair to compare an open source OS to those. I think open source stands to do better than the mainstream platforms |
| 21:40.44 | blackflow | you're comparing apples and oranges, neither osx or windows curate the packages like debian distro does |
| 21:40.52 | blackflow | you get bare possible OS, no applications. |
| 21:40.59 | thavlik | *facepalms* |
| 21:41.04 | siloxid | macOS sits in top of a good amount of open source |
| 21:41.10 | thavlik | >And I do think it is fair to compare an open source OS to those |
| 21:41.35 | thavlik | To you, it is apples and oranges being compared. To the end user, they are both competing solutions. They are compared. |
| 21:41.40 | blackflow | still apples and oranges. there's no curated package repository for windows. |
| 21:41.52 | thavlik | siloxid, the open source parts of mac are basically the best parts of it |
| 21:42.10 | blackflow | you can install llvm7 on debian right now. download the tarball and uninstall it. done. just like in windows. |
| 21:42.18 | thavlik | blackflow, and yet installing and managing 3rd party software is not as terrible as it is on debian |
| 21:42.22 | cheapie | "I don't care if it's apples or oranges or whatever, I just need fruit" |
| 21:42.26 | fredl | thavlik, blackflow - #debian-offtopic maybe? |
| 21:42.28 | cheapie | ^ typical user |
| 21:42.35 | thavlik | fredl, I need to get back to work :) |
| 21:42.57 | blackflow | s/uninstall/unpack/ (lol) |
| 21:42.57 | *** join/#debian Raazeer (~Raazeer@2001:8e0:2193:d700:52e5:49ff:fec9:7240) |
| 21:43.36 | Raazeer | Hey there. anyone here with some experience in lcdproc? |
| 21:43.49 | fredl | Anybody have a clue why using https://termbin.com/elybz, 192.168.3.1 comes up but 192.168.4.1 does not? |
| 21:44.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1542] by debhelper |
| 21:44.04 | Tenkawa | fredl: jut a sec |
| 21:44.10 | Tenkawa | er just |
| 21:44.25 | thavlik | blackflow, didn't realize they permitted that |
| 21:44.28 | *** join/#debian xcm (~xcm@ipa210.225.tellas.gr) |
| 21:44.31 | blackflow | fredl: you can't have multiple gateways |
| 21:44.35 | rwp | fredl, First just pedantically please delete all of the lines that say "network" and "broadcast" as those are redundant and not needed. |
| 21:44.49 | Raazeer | I'm trying to drive a 7-segment led display with lcdproc, basically by putting an arduino in between the max7219 and the PC to act as a smart usb port. |
| 21:44.52 | rwp | The "netmask" line is the required bit of information there. |
| 21:44.59 | Raazeer | now I'm wondering what driver might be useful there. |
| 21:45.12 | *** join/#debian hays (~quassel@fsf/member/hays) |
| 21:45.24 | Tenkawa | he's got dupe br0 entries too |
| 21:45.39 | rwp | fredl, +1 on blackflow's comment. Only *one* gateway please. |
| 21:46.10 | Tenkawa | you cant do iface br0 inet static more tha once can you? |
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| 21:46.19 | fredl | yeah iproute2 |
| 21:46.21 | rwp | Also I believe a "iface eth0 inet manual" is desired there too. |
| 21:46.24 | Tenkawa | ahh |
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| 21:46.32 | Tenkawa | havent set it up this way yet |
| 21:46.43 | *** part/#debian AmarOk1412 (~AmarOk@2a00:5881:4008:508::253) |
| 21:46.46 | blackflow | Tenkawa: you can yeah |
| 21:46.53 | fredl | Actually there's another fishy thing going on as well, when I do ifdown br0 it stays interface br0 not configured |
| 21:47.01 | rwp | Also the indentation in that file is inconsistent. |
| 21:47.13 | fredl | anyway, yeah those gateway/network/broadcast comments, fixed to https://termbin.com/jfkh |
| 21:47.18 | Tenkawa | it just seems like it wouldnt parse properly |
| 21:47.20 | fredl | Yeah fixed that too :) |
| 21:47.27 | blackflow | fredl: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration#iproute2_method |
| 21:47.40 | Tenkawa | how would it know what order is which |
| 21:47.42 | blackflow | you just need one address line (cidr is okay too) for each alias |
| 21:48.20 | rwp | As an oh, by the by, not the problem here but instead of a separate netmask line saying "address 192.168.178.2/24" in CIDR style is fully supported. I prefer it. It just makes for a more compactly described file that way. |
| 21:49.16 | fredl | alrite, trimmed down even further to https://termbin.com/z0wu |
| 21:49.30 | Tenkawa | remembers when he use to have to calculate subnet masks and gateways by hand |
| 21:49.37 | Tenkawa | oh that was fun |
| 21:49.40 | Tenkawa | not |
| 21:49.47 | fredl | yes lots of fun :) |
| 21:50.12 | rwp | Additionally I think you should add "iface eth0 inet manual" as well. |
| 21:50.18 | blackflow | thavlik: "permitted"? nobody prevents you from doing that. that's why you're comparing apples and oranges. the linux ecosystem opted for shared lib, curated repository approach, that does not exclude anyone form downloading and unpackinga tarball that installs everything, like in windows, so you end up with a gazillion of openssl libs each vulnerable and each in its own C:\Program Files\Foo Bar Baz\ |
| 21:50.24 | blackflow | directory |
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| 21:51.10 | rwp | fredl, In your latest you need to add /24 to the secondary interface sections. "address 192.168.4.1/24". |
| 21:51.28 | blackflow | I'd do it in the first one as well |
| 21:51.31 | fredl | Hmm, really on the 'manual' bit? It brings up br0 just fine this way, so I don't know if after removing a bunch of redundant information I should go and re-add other redundant info? |
| 21:51.46 | fredl | ah rwp, ok |
| 21:52.18 | fredl | that makes sense, that's how it decides on netmask/broadcast etc. |
| 21:52.24 | blackflow | yup |
| 21:52.43 | fredl | the thing that kinda baffles me.... |
| 21:53.03 | fredl | using this config file, ifdown br0 stays br0 not configured |
| 21:53.21 | rwp | fredl, Personally I prefer the method of adding additional IP addresses using "up" and "down" commands such as described in https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration" section "Manual approach:" but that isn't your problem now. It just means I am unfamiliar with the new way. |
| 21:53.21 | fredl | So it's kinda hard to test changes if you can't bring it down/up |
| 21:53.30 | *** join/#debian pringau (~pringau@gateway/tor-sasl/pringau) |
| 21:54.11 | blackflow | maybe flush it first. ip addr flush br0 |
| 21:54.12 | fredl | rwp - yeah I tried to google for that but there's so much old info that the new way doesn't show up so much |
| 21:54.15 | rwp | fredl, That error you are getting about "not configured" is a clue. I don't know what it means. But it is a clue. |
| 21:54.31 | fredl | fsck |
| 21:54.42 | fredl | I just axed my iface :P brb |
| 21:54.52 | blackflow | oh that was remote? |
| 21:55.10 | rwp | A reboot a day keeps the networking at bay... |
| 21:55.16 | blackflow | tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk.... *shakes head* more tsk tsk tsk tsk. |
| 21:55.47 | thavlik | blackflow, if you want to nitpick my grammar, that's fine. But I am not missing the conceptual difference between linux and other operating systems. |
| 21:56.15 | rwp | fredl, Long ago a wise admin hinted me to start a "sleep 300 && shutdown -r now" in another login session so that if I didn't get back to kill it the system would automatically reboot. In the case that I killed the connection to it. That has been an invaluable hint to me in the time since. |
| 21:56.33 | rwp | However that assumes that the files on disk are bootable. Otherwise it is rescue-mode FTW. |
| 21:56.53 | blackflow | rwp: not that wise, was he. why reboot? just reset the network |
| 21:57.16 | blackflow | the _wise_ thing to do is run commands without permanentizing them in e/n/i. and if everything works, make it permanent. |
| 21:57.18 | rwp | blackflow, If using the network to log into a remote system and the networking is broken then one can't just reset the network. |
| 21:57.31 | blackflow | becuase if you fskc up, then on reboot you'll end up in the same, fsked up config |
| 21:57.34 | rwp | I agree with the last thing you said completely. |
| 21:57.35 | Tenkawa | or even better.... have a remote console |
| 21:58.01 | blackflow | rwp: yes one can. run in tmux so network resets don't break the resetting shell |
| 21:58.16 | rwp | What I am astounded by is that some of the 800lb gorillas such as AWS do not support a remote console. |
| 21:58.18 | blackflow | I've only done it a gazillion times, what do I know. |
| 21:58.27 | jhutchins | ~Actually, I don't usually loose ssh sessions on network restart. |
| 21:58.51 | rwp | blackflow, I agree. I always use tmux/screen for that. But that has nothing to do with disconnecting yourself from the system and being unable to connect to it. |
| 21:59.21 | karlpinc | thavlik: The "secret sauce" in linux is that with linux you can get _all_ your software from your distro. The distro does the systems integration and makes sure everything works together. And stays working. See also footnote 1 of: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianSoftware#fnref-59b1a6a24cc7f124d6c7b11f4930cbca3df1145f |
| 21:59.22 | *** join/#debian mthe878 (~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe) |
| 21:59.22 | rwp | For example try "ifdown $IFACE" and then try bringing it back up remotely. |
| 21:59.33 | blackflow | jhutchins: depends on what you do. if the routing table, flow hashmap is not flushed, then it shouldn't break connection |
| 22:00.04 | Tenkawa | I still havent tried out tmux much yet to see if I'd rather use it |
| 22:00.13 | Tenkawa | I've been using screen so long |
| 22:00.23 | *** join/#debian fredl (~fredl@smtp.3dn.nl) |
| 22:00.25 | blackflow | rwp: ifdown iface ; sleep 2 ; ifup iface ? oh yeah if you brek it, nogo, but reboot will end up in a working config, unless you broke e/n/i |
| 22:00.32 | *** join/#debian fredl_ (~fredl@smtp.3dn.nl) |
| 22:00.35 | fredl | back again :) |
| 22:00.43 | *** join/#debian T3RM1N41_ (~73rm1n41@2604:2d80:800d:9294::1001) |
| 22:01.15 | rwp | Tenkawa, I have been using screen forever. A while back I decided to test drive tmux. I can tell you that I really like tmux. It is better. |
| 22:01.15 | rwp | fredl, |
| 22:01.19 | *** join/#debian Alprazolam (~Linux@137.117.207.41) |
| 22:01.19 | fredl | And... weirdest thing, I now have 192.168.4.1 but nothing changed it seems |
| 22:01.20 | *** join/#debian Makaveli7 (~Makaveli7@unaffiliated/makaveli7) |
| 22:01.28 | fredl | yes? |
| 22:01.31 | rwp | fredl, We have been having a nice discussion about resuming from broken network connections while you were away. |
| 22:01.41 | Tenkawa | rwp: I might give it a go soon |
| 22:01.47 | fredl | yeah but I'm on laptop downstairs now |
| 22:02.02 | Tenkawa | it support serial ports still right? |
| 22:02.06 | fredl | so nothing to resume as I was upstairs earlier, server is in garage |
| 22:02.18 | *** join/#debian booyah (~bb@193.25.1.157) |
| 22:02.31 | fredl | Oh, I've used 'screen' for decades :) |
| 22:02.34 | Tenkawa | I need to be able to access my ttl bridge on my pi's |
| 22:02.42 | rwp | That isn't a garage! That is your datacenter in the adjacent structure. |
| 22:02.43 | Tenkawa | fredl: indeed |
| 22:02.57 | fredl | usually just to start up long running things before going home from office |
| 22:04.05 | Tenkawa | I'm just not a very graphical person in general... give me terminal based sessions anyday |
| 22:04.06 | fredl | rwp - you right man, I call it a micro-datacenter to paying customers. Here on #debian I have some more modesty though |
| 22:04.30 | *** join/#debian GNU\colossus (~colo@truschnigg.info) |
| 22:04.51 | rwp | Tenkawa, When you test drive tmux plan to spend an afternoon twiddling with things. Like screen it is not friendly out of the box. Such as the escape character. And once you start playing with it you will burn through a few hours twiddling things to your liking. It will suck you in. |
| 22:04.55 | fredl | Since on here some people have more hardware sitting next to their desk than me in my rack in the garage |
| 22:05.38 | *** join/#debian \\Mr_C\\ (mrc@cpe-75-187-160-45.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 22:05.58 | karlpinc | fredl: Surely it's not a datacenter in your garage any more. It's a cloud, eh? |
| 22:06.13 | rwp | Indeed there are quite varied people and experiences here. Debian is The Universal Operating System! :-) |
| 22:06.23 | Tenkawa | rwp: yeah I've got my screen config setup all with 1 change.. I dont see this being too bad heheheh |
| 22:06.49 | rwp | karlpinc, Nah... The cloud is just someone else's computer. These are fredl's computers. Not someone else's. :-) |
| 22:07.21 | blackflow | "Cloud" is so 2018. It's all about Serverless(tm) now. |
| 22:07.33 | Tenkawa | and that change is just to accomodate two control characters (one on my host and oe on my serial to usb attached bridge ) |
| 22:07.34 | rwp | Anyway... fredl? How are things for you with all of the updates? Good? Bad? |
| 22:08.22 | Tenkawa | anyone think that folding phone is going to be a bit hit? |
| 22:08.32 | *** join/#debian aruna (~aruna11@toroon0717w-lp130-05-184-145-50-74.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:09.22 | rwp | It's a fad. It will pass. The real future is in dialing shoe phones... |
| 22:09.46 | Tenkawa | hah |
| 22:10.12 | Tenkawa | cant believe what happened to the one guys |
| 22:10.21 | *** join/#debian davis (~davis@70-130-78-202.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:10.23 | davis | hello |
| 22:11.07 | davis | i have a laptop which was running gnome desktop fine. I did an update and now, a login session appears but xindows seems to hang. |
| 22:11.29 | davis | i tried to dpkg-reconfigure the xserver drivers but the problem persists |
| 22:11.32 | thavlik | karlpinc, I get that! And I think it's actually a great system. Large corporations have the resources to spend in managing their official software updates. The observation I was making is that the current system may not be servicing end users in a way they want to be serviced. I suppose Debian succeeds wildly at what it does, and perhaps I should be running a different distro. |
| 22:11.38 | davis | any idea what I should try next? |
| 22:12.13 | davis | if I simply run xstart it will hang as well. |
| 22:12.34 | Tenkawa | how did you update? |
| 22:12.37 | davis | if I try to reconfigure Xorg it says X is already running. i am guessing that is the login |
| 22:12.39 | *** join/#debian Gyro (~user@x4d004a0b.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 22:12.56 | *** join/#debian Brigo (~Brigo@249.59.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com) |
| 22:12.57 | davis | apt-get update/upgrade but it had been a while since I did this. |
| 22:13.24 | davis | at one point it had some packages which were reported as no longer being used so I did the autoremove. |
| 22:13.42 | davis | if I do ctrl-alt f2, i can get to a console login |
| 22:13.57 | Tenkawa | ok.. if you can login |
| 22:14.02 | Tenkawa | do that first |
| 22:14.09 | davis | after i login the main terminal just has a blank screen |
| 22:14.20 | Tenkawa | hit f1 |
| 22:14.24 | Tenkawa | er |
| 22:14.27 | Tenkawa | alt f1 |
| 22:14.28 | *** join/#debian cliluw (~cliluw@unaffiliated/cliluw) |
| 22:14.37 | davis | im logged into the terminal on alt-f2 |
| 22:14.41 | karlpinc | thavlik: I came in late and am not sure what you're trying to do, but you're free to run anything on top of debian. There are a variety of ways of installing 3rd party software. We can help you with the tools that try to keep 3rd party software from breaking debian. But once you get past the point of asking for help with the underlying debian you're on your own when it comes to help with whatever it is that's broken in the software |
| 22:14.41 | karlpinc | you've put on top of debian. |
| 22:14.42 | davis | alt-f1 is blank |
| 22:14.48 | Tenkawa | ahh ok good |
| 22:14.57 | Tenkawa | sudo apt-get updat |
| 22:14.59 | Tenkawa | sudo apt-get update |
| 22:15.10 | Tenkawa | if not root |
| 22:15.34 | davis | fwiw this a laptop with a nvidia/intel card which i never got to work with bummblebee or primus (i think that was what it called.) |
| 22:15.44 | Tenkawa | ahhhh |
| 22:15.52 | davis | i think i was running xwindows in intel mode |
| 22:15.55 | Tenkawa | it could be the firmware |
| 22:16.00 | karlpinc | thavlik: People want a pony. There's only so much that can be done for them. |
| 22:16.30 | Tenkawa | that linux needs the new binay blob and the config tweaks |
| 22:16.50 | davis | apt-get upgrade says four packages are held back, but none of them are x related |
| 22:16.53 | Tenkawa | this part I cant help with since I dont know the config |
| 22:17.14 | blackflow | mmmmmmh Buster: nginx + openssl 1.1.1 = TLSv1.3 |
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| 22:17.22 | davis | im not worried about the nviida, just trying to get back to intel mode |
| 22:17.25 | Tenkawa | ps auxwwww | grep -i xorg |
| 22:17.35 | Tenkawa | any processes running |
| 22:17.36 | Tenkawa | ? |
| 22:17.45 | davis | yes |
| 22:17.46 | davis | two |
| 22:18.06 | davis | one is Debian owner and is /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg vt1 |
| 22:18.20 | davis | the other is the grep |
| 22:18.23 | Tenkawa | yeah definitely going to need to talk to someone who knows a little more about the optimus setup |
| 22:18.36 | thavlik | karlpinc, I was trying to install from sid. I am unsatisfied with doing so being considered dangerous/discouraged - it doesn't seem like it should be. Debian's stability due to its package manager's complexity |
| 22:18.38 | Tenkawa | sorry I couldnt help more |
| 22:18.52 | davis | i think it can be done without optimus. |
| 22:19.07 | davis | i think that is only if you want to enable nvidia |
| 22:19.25 | davis | which i had abandoned hence it was in regular intel cpu builtin video mode |
| 22:19.28 | karlpinc | thavlik: Have you tried self-backporting? What package? |
| 22:19.29 | Tenkawa | yes but theres things specific to the config you have to do to "disable" |
| 22:19.32 | Tenkawa | it too |
| 22:19.49 | davis | if I try to run Xorg -configure it will fail since X is running |
| 22:20.02 | fling | libGL error: failed to load driver: i915 |
| 22:20.12 | fling | Which package to install for libgl? mesa something? |
| 22:20.27 | Tenkawa | do you get a grub boot up prompt |
| 22:20.37 | Tenkawa | davis: |
| 22:21.13 | Tenkawa | if so bring it up into rescue mode and that will start it up without X |
| 22:21.30 | davis | ok one moment |
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| 22:22.25 | davis | lol, when i move arrow keys it starts up rather than selecting a differnt boot mode |
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| 22:22.32 | thavlik | karlpinc, that will probably be what I do. It's llvm 7 |
| 22:23.15 | *** join/#debian relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) |
| 22:23.30 | Tenkawa | davis: the key mappings are different |
| 22:24.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1536] by debhelper |
| 22:24.59 | Tenkawa | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:25.37 | davis | ok one morment |
| 22:25.42 | karlpinc | ,checkbackport llvm |
| 22:25.43 | judd | Backporting package llvm in sidâstretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch. |
| 22:26.01 | karlpinc | !tell thavlik about ssb |
| 22:26.01 | Tenkawa | that should in theory stop th boot |
| 22:26.32 | davis | nope, but fwiw, i dont see a rescue option. |
| 22:26.42 | davis | so cant dork with that. |
| 22:26.48 | Tenkawa | its under advanced |
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| 22:26.56 | davis | ahh |
| 22:27.06 | karlpinc | ,checkbackport llvm-runtime |
| 22:27.07 | judd | Backporting package llvm-runtime in sidâstretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch. |
| 22:27.15 | Tenkawa | but heres what we can do |
| 22:27.22 | karlpinc | thavlik: Should be very straightforward to self-backport. |
| 22:27.28 | Tenkawa | boot it to grub |
| 22:27.33 | fling | Which package for mesa? |
| 22:27.45 | Tenkawa | when the menu comes up immediately hit e |
| 22:28.06 | fling | libglu1-mesa ? |
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| 22:28.36 | *** join/#debian alexandros_c (~quassel@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531) |
| 22:28.40 | Tenkawa | we'll edit the current one and make it manually boot into single user |
| 22:28.49 | Tenkawa | on the fly |
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| 22:29.17 | davis | hmm, e does not stop it either. i think by the time my external monitor comes to life its already sarted |
| 22:29.31 | Tenkawa | well darn |
| 22:29.33 | davis | could i not just simply service stop the X login? |
| 22:29.44 | Tenkawa | yeah |
| 22:29.51 | Tenkawa | in theory |
| 22:29.53 | Tenkawa | heheheh |
| 22:30.12 | rant | fling: there are lots of packages for mesa.. there is the x driver, app support libraries, etc |
| 22:30.42 | Tenkawa | fling: what was the error? |
| 22:31.03 | rant | you're looking at the error |
| 22:31.26 | rant | its likely the user in this "special" case :P |
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| 22:32.28 | Tenkawa | whats he "trying" to fix? |
| 22:33.01 | rant | not trying to fix.. trying to break.. last I heard they were trying to install unknown packages without getting anything large like icon themes.. |
| 22:33.24 | rant | vague, silly, ideas.. |
| 22:33.26 | *** join/#debian Zewwy (~zem@unaffiliated/zew) |
| 22:33.36 | Zewwy | can someone help me this SecAPT thing is driving me nuts |
| 22:33.54 | Tenkawa | ahh |
| 22:33.54 | Zewwy | https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Debian_9_64-bit_with_Zoneminder_1.30.4_the_Easy_Way |
| 22:33.56 | rant | took so long to respond I'd been sound asleep for hours by time they said anything |
| 22:34.10 | Zewwy | I'm following this and when i run apt update I get keyring uissues and this guide isn't covering it |
| 22:35.32 | fling | rant: Tenkawa: installed xserver-xorg-video-intel and the error gone. |
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| 22:36.29 | fling | rant: exactly the user, the problem is I can't find the proper package because of so many different mesa things in apt cache |
| 22:36.44 | fling | rant: I used to gentoo where I have a single mesa package. |
| 22:36.58 | fling | Tenkawa: I had no mesa :P |
| 22:37.12 | Tenkawa | ah |
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| 22:37.19 | Zewwy | anyone any idea how to pass SecAPT |
| 22:37.27 | fling | How do I skip deps? Not possible? |
| 22:37.29 | *** join/#debian sayi (~sayi@134.41.82.223) |
| 22:37.35 | karlpinc | Zewwy: The easy way to install zoneminder on debian stretch is to enable the debian backports repo and install from that. |
| 22:37.36 | Tenkawa | Zewwy: just a sec |
| 22:38.10 | Zewwy | karlpinc: why is the wiki not updated with a nice easy tut |
| 22:38.21 | rant | fling: thats probably because gentoo builds everything from source.. here you have a binary distribution and a single source tree can yeild many different binary packages |
| 22:38.22 | karlpinc | Zewwy: Upi |
| 22:39.01 | fling | rant: right. |
| 22:39.04 | karlpinc | You'd have to ask them. I haven't read it. Do they want you to install the latest and greatest? If so then you need to go to them for support because adding random repos into debian makes your distro not-debian any more. |
| 22:39.32 | Zewwy | I'm just following the guides |
| 22:39.39 | Zewwy | its their depdancy requirements |
| 22:39.47 | Zewwy | that use packages the default debain repos clearly dont have |
| 22:39.49 | fling | rant: what is wrong with me trying to skip installing icon themes? |
| 22:39.51 | Tenkawa | cheers all. gotta run |
| 22:39.58 | karlpinc | Zewwy: You still might be able to get _some_ help here. It depends on whether the guides have you replace pieces of actual debian. |
| 22:40.24 | Zewwy | there is a section about the keys lets see if i can follow that |
| 22:40.51 | karlpinc | Zewwy: If you install from debian backports you will only install dependencies that debian has. |
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| 22:41.05 | karlpinc | !tell Zewwy about frankendebian |
| 22:41.08 | rant | fling: an if an icon theme is being installed its because one is required.. things that display icons require a theme or all the icons would just be the default white icon with a red X |
| 22:41.31 | rant | fling: in a binary dependency based distro, you have to install or satisfy the dependencies of a package somehow |
| 22:41.50 | Zewwy | if there a better guiode then what I shared I'm all ears |
| 22:42.12 | Zewwy | this is the main thing I don't liek about linux... its such a mixed bag |
| 22:42.28 | karlpinc | Zewwy: You want to get support from debian first, and if that fails go to the original authors and if that fails get advice from random strangers. |
| 22:42.46 | karlpinc | !tell Zewwy about backports |
| 22:42.56 | Zewwy | ok dokie |
| 22:43.06 | Zewwy | so seem zonminder on debian 9 is impossible to do "clean" |
| 22:43.14 | karlpinc | Zewwy: Just ask here with more questions. |
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| 22:43.34 | Zewwy | man if i could do Apt install zoneminder and it just freaking worked |
| 22:43.39 | Zewwy | I'd be one ahppy guy |
| 22:43.50 | Zewwy | maybe linux will one day be that good |
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| 22:44.00 | karlpinc | Zewwy: The backported zoneminder is "clean", in that if you use it you'll be able to upgrade your debian to the next major release. (If you follow the instructions in the release notes.) What does "clean" mean to you? |
| 22:44.15 | rant | ,v zoneminder |
| 22:44.16 | judd | Package: zoneminder on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.25.0-4; wheezy-security: 1.25.0-4+deb7u2; jessie-multimedia: 1.28.1-dmo10; jessie-backports: 1.29.0+dfsg-1~bpo8+1; stretch-backports: 1.30.4+dfsg-2~bpo9+1; sid: 1.30.4+dfsg1-5; experimental: 1.32.3-1; buster: 1.32.3-2; stretch-multimedia: 2:1.30.4-dmo1+deb9u2; buster-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo2; sid-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo2 |
| 22:44.20 | Zewwy | a guide that is easy to follow and supported |
| 22:44.20 | fling | rant: on gentoo there is 1. 'provided' mechanism using which I could just add packages I don't want to package.provided file and they will not be installed. |
| 22:44.34 | Zewwy | without Effing with keyrings and third party repos |
| 22:44.42 | karlpinc | Zewwy: You need to enable the backports repo. Then install following the backports instuctions. |
| 22:44.57 | Zewwy | karlpinc: is there any simple guide on that |
| 22:45.01 | Zewwy | im a newbie at this stuff |
| 22:45.03 | fling | rant: and also there is 2. install mask mechanism using which I could add paths or globs of things I don't want to INSTALL_MASK |
| 22:45.17 | fling | rant: for example INSTALL_MASK="bash-completion gnustep-4.sh lib32 opt systemd" |
| 22:45.44 | karlpinc | Zewwy: https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ |
| 22:45.51 | rant | fling: yes because gentoo is a SOURCE distribution you are compiling things from scratch and can leave things out.. debian is a BINARY distribution.. so those dependencies are already compiled in.. if you wanna rebuild packages from source, you're welcome to |
| 22:45.54 | fling | rant: both things work for binary packages⦠|
| 22:46.10 | Zewwy | thanks |
| 22:46.11 | Zewwy | reading now |
| 22:46.26 | fling | rant: I don't think so. It is not related to SOURCE. |
| 22:46.46 | rant | fling: whatever.. then I suggest you go use gentoo.. we dont do things like this.. it'd break things |
| 22:46.49 | *** part/#debian izh_ (~denis@unaffiliated/izh/x-2009676) |
| 22:47.01 | *** join/#debian Guest74644 (~francois@37.173.97.57) |
| 22:47.08 | jhutchins | LFS! |
| 22:47.13 | rant | here you install packages AND their dependencies, or you se equivs and satisfy them another way |
| 22:47.17 | fling | rant: both features available for binary packages in portage, binary packages you precompiled and proprietary packages missing sources. Also both features are available for binary gentoo based distros. |
| 22:47.28 | fling | rant: ok, thanks for info! |
| 22:47.33 | fling | I wanted to use debian!! |
| 22:47.53 | karlpinc | Zewwy: FYI. It is often helpful to read the README.Debian file, especially for daemons and the like. |
| 22:48.08 | karlpinc | !tell Zewwy about readme.debian |
| 22:48.19 | rant | do you use your bathtub as a toilet, and your blender as a fishtank? |
| 22:50.19 | fling | rant: I really don't see how skipping deps or installed files is related to _source_ distro. |
| 22:50.28 | fling | debian could build from sources too I think |
| 22:50.32 | *** join/#debian Sollg3r (~ejakuk@gateway/tor-sasl/sollg3r) |
| 22:50.36 | fling | and gentoo could install binary packages |
| 22:51.24 | phogg | fling: building from source on Debian is fairly easy, just not 100% automatic. Once built it would be chaos if you could pick and choose which bits of a package got installed. That way lies broken. |
| 22:51.50 | rant | because if I compile foo against libbar and then package it so that foo-1.0 depends on libbar-1.0 and you install foo without libbar, not only have you broken the system that resolves package dependencies but now you can't run /usr/bin/foo without a segfault or such |
| 22:52.11 | Zewwy | readmes fine |
| 22:52.21 | Zewwy | but I'm mostly in particulary interested in zoneminder |
| 22:52.25 | fling | rant: the same will happen on gentoo too. |
| 22:52.35 | Zewwy | and it techincally avaiable on other distros, I just picked debian cause stablity |
| 22:52.35 | rant | its not possible to sanely install binary package without breakage |
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| 22:52.37 | fling | phogg: ok, not going to do so |
| 22:52.38 | Zewwy | I liek that |
| 22:52.51 | fling | rant: I agree |
| 22:53.09 | karlpinc | Zewwy: Me too. Just install it from backports. There's 1 file to edit and 3 commands to run. |
| 22:53.23 | Zewwy | Epic Thankx |
| 22:53.50 | rant | fling: in debian, we dont do or support such idiotic things.. if someone insists on this, we tell them to use equivs.. it creates a metapackage which "provides" whatever is needed so the package manager is happy, then its up to you to actually satisfy the program's need for whatever it is through some other means |
| 22:54.00 | karlpinc | Zewwy: I mention it because it's possible that the zoneminder package in backports has a README.Debian. |
| 22:54.13 | Zewwy | ahhh good to know, thanks again |
| 22:55.11 | karlpinc | Zewwy: After you setup to install one thing from backports you can install further things with a single command. |
| 22:56.04 | rant | fling: read over the Why Debian? https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian and Social Contract https://www.debian.org/social_contract.en.html notice our priorities include stability, not insanity |
| 22:56.31 | fling | ok sounds fair |
| 23:00.00 | karlpinc | Zewwy: You can monitor https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ When the green line gets close to 0 there will be a new debian stable release. At that point zoneminder will be in the regular debian repos. I don't know why it is not in stretch. |
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| 23:00.55 | fling | rant: which package do I need for qt apps to use gtk themes? |
| 23:01.26 | fling | or do I just need to install adwaita-qt? |
| 23:02.13 | fling | ok it works |
| 23:02.21 | davis | wow, finally got xwindows back |
| 23:02.46 | fling | No, openscad is light theme, not dark |
| 23:03.01 | rant | fling: as far as I know, qt apps don't use gtk themes unless you rewrite them and recompile them from source |
| 23:03.10 | fling | I have GTK_THEME=Adwaita:dark and QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2 env variables and gtk apps are working as expected |
| 23:03.19 | fling | but qt apps are using a different light theme |
| 23:03.50 | rant | well for one thing gtk2 is not the default anymore most those gtk themes are gtk3 |
| 23:04.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1529] by debhelper |
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| 23:06.22 | fling | rant: does this mean QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2 will not work? |
| 23:06.35 | fling | How to enable dark theme for qt apps via an env variable? |
| 23:07.30 | rant | fling: qt apps use qt themes.. they are completely different and binary incompatible programming libaries.. that have totally different skinnable widgets which use totally different types of themes |
| 23:08.08 | rant | if you are used to doing this weird shit, go back to whatever distro you were using where they apparently had qt themes that matched all the gtk ones |
| 23:11.16 | fling | rant: I only have them on debian and I want to use dark qt theme :D |
| 23:11.36 | rant | because there was only an illusion this was possible by either some sort of translation library or someone installing identical themes for both QT and GTK |
| 23:11.53 | rant | the structure of the themes are totally different |
| 23:12.49 | rant | fling: try #debian-kde on irc.oftc.net chances of you finding people in here who use or care about QT themes is very slim |
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| 23:15.01 | *** join/#debian deface (~FollowMeD@ppp-93-104-82-197.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 23:15.24 | deface | hi all |
| 23:16.30 | *** join/#debian deicide- (~deicide-@unaffiliated/deicide-) |
| 23:16.37 | deface | Please explain me who control source code of Debian Linux and check Security Isueues or Qality of code ? |
| 23:17.12 | rant | the upstream programmers/coders, the debian maintainers, all debian users. |
| 23:17.29 | rant | so.. basically everyone |
| 23:18.03 | deface | ok! but |
| 23:18.08 | deface | https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4395 |
| 23:18.12 | deface | check it! |
| 23:18.12 | rant | each package has a maintainer or team of maintainers who work on packaging |
| 23:18.19 | rant | I don't need to |
| 23:18.49 | deface | how its posible that chromium has so many sqcurity issues and this app in repo of debian???? |
| 23:18.55 | deface | who managed it? |
| 23:18.57 | deface | google? |
| 23:19.08 | rant | ,maint chromium |
| 23:19.09 | judd | Package chromium version 0.9.13.3-1 was uploaded by Paul Wise on 2009-02-19, last changed by Paul Wise and maintained by Debian Games Team. |
| 23:19.13 | somiaj | deface: Most of the source code is controlled by the upstream developers. There are some packages in which debian is the upstream, these are controlled by debian developers. At some level all code must be approved by a debian developer to get put into debian, but outside of some policy and tools like lintian that check for errors, code is improved by users submitting bug reports due to issues. |
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| 23:19.25 | rant | hmm wrong chromium :P |
| 23:19.50 | somiaj | deface: webbrowers are constantally full of security issues, this is a known issue and has been known for years. Debian relays on the upstream to keep them as secure as possible. |
| 23:19.56 | somiaj | ,maint chromium-browser |
| 23:19.57 | judd | Sorry, there is no record of 'chromium-browser'. |
| 23:20.15 | deface | i mean that if i Work on CIA or CSI or ... i can commit one bug in one app and all get it ! |
| 23:20.16 | deface | nice |
| 23:20.40 | rant | Debian Chromium Maintainers <pkg-chromium-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org> |
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| 23:21.06 | deface | https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4393 |
| 23:21.10 | deface | systemd? |
| 23:21.27 | deface | all have Systemd! All of us! |
| 23:21.30 | rant | check packages.debian.org/systemd |
| 23:21.51 | deface | nobody is responsile for it? |
| 23:22.07 | rant | and go away.. you're not smart enough to say anything meaningful, we all know about these issues, we're not worked up about them like you are |
| 23:22.17 | somiaj | "For the stable distribution (stretch), this problem has been fixed in version 232-25+deb9u9" I don't see how that is a problem, it has been fixed |
| 23:22.41 | rant | they're an idiot and are shocked that they can see security bulletins for their OS for a change |
| 23:23.05 | rant | as opposed to running black box software full of holes not known |
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| 23:24.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1523] by debhelper |
| 23:24.08 | rant | keep entertaining this and we'll be here for aeons while they hash up every DSA, CVE, Bug report, etc ever created |
| 23:25.12 | rant | fwiw that systemd dsa was already patched in stable security repos before it was filed there |
| 23:25.51 | somiaj | the DSA is sent out at the time the package is available in security.debian.org to let users know so they can upgrade. |
| 23:26.13 | somiaj | The only true way to be secure is to lock yourself in a box and make no contact with the outside world. |
| 23:26.26 | rant | its not a Debian Apocolypse Warning its a Debian Security Announcment |
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| 23:28.36 | deface | intel-microcode has a lot of sec. issues. its |
| 23:28.40 | deface | a binary? |
| 23:28.45 | deface | can i check it? |
| 23:28.57 | somiaj | its non-free, you'll have to ask intel about it. |
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| 23:38.55 | deface | which company made most commits in debian source code? IBM ? Google or Intel? |
| 23:39.53 | OerHeks | linus |
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| 23:42.40 | rant | deface: this is a support channel for debian stable, where users of Debian stable volunteer to support other users of Debian stable with technical issues regarding the use of Debian stable.. if you don't have a support question, then take your discussion elsewhere. See https://wiki.debian.org/IRC for a list of other debian related channels |
| 23:43.10 | bsund | hai, i messed around with harddrives and want to do the grub lookup and reinstall that is done everytime a kernel updates with apt, how do i do that? |
| 23:43.29 | rant | update-grub |
| 23:43.32 | whislock | bsund: update-grub, I ... that. |
| 23:43.40 | bsund | thanks <3 |
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| 23:44.25 | deface | i have a supoort quastion! how can i build rebuild my debian from scratch??? please help me to find manual or somthink like this. |
| 23:44.43 | deface | just step by step |
| 23:45.05 | whislock | deface: The install media is available for various architectures and in various form's on Debian's website. |
| 23:45.16 | whislock | deface: https://www.debian.org/distrib/ |
| 23:45.24 | deface | thx |
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| 23:47.46 | whislock | deface: That, and the answers to most common questions, are easily found via the search engine of your choice. |
| 23:50.04 | bsund | grumpy whislock |
| 23:50.08 | bsund | :P |
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