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| 00:36.04 | fling | Which package to install to solve 'libGL error: failed to load driver: i915'? |
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| 00:44.26 | kb3ien | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:54.22 | fling | how to install recent mesa on stretch? |
| 00:54.23 | fling | Do I need backports? |
| 00:55.15 | rwp | Yes. For more recent things like that backports is the recommendation. |
| 00:56.00 | rwp | Buster Testing is also getting quite close to release now too. Pretty soon it will make sense to start recommending Buster for mostly-Stable users. |
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| 00:56.27 | rwp | !backports |
| 00:56.27 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
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| 01:02.01 | fling | rwp: how soon? |
| 01:02.15 | fling | rwp: can I just switch my current sid installs to buster then? |
| 01:02.32 | themill | do you mean stretch not sid? |
| 01:02.43 | fling | themill: sit to buster |
| 01:03.07 | themill | you cannot reliably downgrade from sid to buster. |
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| 01:03.33 | themill | dpkg, unstable->testing |
| 01:03.33 | dpkg | Since packages generally migrate from unstable to testing fairly regularly, downgrading from unstable to testing is sometimes possible (see <partial downgrade>). Alternatively change "unstable" to "testing" in your sources.list and wait for packages migrate; installing new packages during this time might be problematic, however. Ask me about <reinstall>. |
| 01:04.11 | fling | themill: thanks! |
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| 01:07.23 | fling | when will buster go stable? |
| 01:07.45 | rwp | fling, Soon. Month or so. If you are using the Sid Unstable suite then #debian-next on OFTC is the better topical channel. |
| 01:08.32 | fling | mesa is too old in stretch but works fine in sid, I should try buster |
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| 01:09.51 | fling | rwp: can I try `deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian buster main` in sources? |
| 01:09.58 | fling | I will make a snapshot |
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| 01:11.14 | rwp | That would be a reasonable sources.list entry for Buster. |
| 01:11.27 | kb3ien | My present (failed attempt) looks like this ip tunnel add foo-gre mode gre remote 209.36.12.34 local 44.33.22.11 ttl 255 ; ip -6 address add 2001:9999:a068::c000 dev foo-gre ; ip link set mtu 1460 dev foo-gre ; ip -6 route add ::1 via 2001:9999:a068::c001 dev foo-gre table foo ; ip -6 rule add from 2001:9999:a068:c000::/50 table foo |
| 01:11.58 | kb3ien | But the problem is that it create an extra unwanted interface called gre0 - which has NO endpoints. |
| 01:12.01 | fling | rwp: do I also need 'deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian buster-updates main' and 'deb http://security.debian.org buster/updates main' ? |
| 01:16.12 | rwp | Yes. And also you will also want security updates from security.debian.org too. |
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| 01:16.33 | de-facto | whats the difference from http://deb.debian.org to http://httpredir.debian.org ? |
| 01:17.13 | rwp | AFAICT there is no difference between those. |
| 01:17.14 | fling | rwp: so I put three lines there then. |
| 01:17.19 | rwp | Yes. |
| 01:17.25 | fling | umm |
| 01:17.34 | fling | between what exactly? |
| 01:18.30 | rwp | Originally httpredir has gone through a few name changes. it was a debian.net resource. But as it has become more official, its on debian.org now, it has changed names. I think, not sure, that is why it is basically the same as deb.debian.org, because deb.debian.org is desired to be a simple name replacement for it. |
| 01:19.08 | de-facto | i just use deb.debian.org for all the entries (normal ones as well as security) |
| 01:19.15 | rwp | But people have been using the old name and they want to preserve compatibility. |
| 01:19.27 | fling | de-facto: show me your sources.list |
| 01:19.48 | fling | I'm trying this https://bpaste.net/show/f8ddd890449b |
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| 01:20.05 | rwp | I believe security.debian.org still must be separate and is not on deb.debian.org due to naming collision. If that isn't true then I will learn something new today. |
| 01:20.53 | fling | What is /etc/issue for buster? |
| 01:21.25 | rwp | fling, Looks acceptable to me. If you want sources available then you need deb-src lines too. |
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| 01:21.54 | fling | I'm not building anything on debian yet. I'm only running it in contaners on gentoo hosts where I build everything :P |
| 01:22.07 | fling | debian is for running precompiled things⦠|
| 01:22.22 | rwp | fling, Since Buster is not released yet it still says buster/sid but that will change to the number before it is released. |
| 01:22.54 | fling | Looks like I switched one container from sid to buster successfully :P |
| 01:23.22 | fling | Downgrades are not always possible as many people told me but it worked for me once just now. |
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| 01:23.51 | fling | What if I have an issue with some app? I have a plan here. |
| 01:24.08 | fling | I will just uninstall it with all the deps and purge. |
| 01:24.11 | fling | Then just reinstall. |
| 01:24.14 | fling | Does this sound right? |
| 01:24.33 | rwp | Yes. That is what I would do. |
| 01:25.03 | rwp | Install apt-show-versions. Run it. | grep -e uptodate and see what is left. It might say "newer than in archive" or something like that for the few packages that are ahead. |
| 01:26.01 | rwp | I meant pipe it to | grep -v -e uptodate, the inverted pattern. Because most things will be uptodate status. But you are interested in the things that are not those. |
| 01:26.02 | kb3ien | https://pastebin.com/bLWvPSiJ show's the crazy interfaces that got created. |
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| 01:27.41 | kb3ien | The problem is that the interface assigned the IP address is not the one TCPDUMP seems the tunnel arriving on; so the kernel ignores them. |
| 01:27.58 | kb3ien | The second problem is that no packets leave on the tunnel. |
| 01:28.11 | fling | rwp: the list https://bpaste.net/show/cd5a5505abb7 |
| 01:28.42 | fling | Is there a good list of `apt-mark manual` for a new minimal install? |
| 01:29.22 | fling | I know the things I use. But I want the proper and working 'base' list. |
| 01:29.45 | themill | rwp deb.debian.org/debian-security is a thing ;) |
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| 01:29.55 | fling | It would be nice for it to also be minimal and not to require a lot of extra deps. But this requirement is optional :> |
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| 01:30.50 | rwp | themill, I just tried it and see that it mostly works. Missing a non-free section though. :-( |
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| 01:31.15 | themill | rwp: what is missing what? |
| 01:31.20 | rwp | FTW stretch/updates is security and stretch-updates is volatile. |
| 01:32.22 | rwp | For example: Err:6 http://deb.debian.org stretch/updates/non-free Sources 404 Not Found [IP: 151.101.68.204 80] |
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| 01:32.58 | themill | Should work just fine |
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| 01:33.34 | themill | There is also a subtle difference between httpredir.do and deb.d.o; httpredir does 301 redirects and deb.d.o does SRV records |
| 01:33.35 | de-facto | rwp fling for stretch (havent tested buster yet) it seems to work just fine with deb.debian.org i think: https://paste.debian.net/1070142/ |
| 01:34.09 | themill | rwp: what sources.list line do you have there? |
| 01:34.13 | rwp | Perhaps that is it. Perhaps it is up to date for Buster but not for Stretch. |
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| 01:34.33 | rwp | I was trying this: deb http://deb.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free |
| 01:34.50 | themill | rwp: needs to be http://deb.debian.org/debian-security |
| 01:35.23 | rwp | Also it is always 151.101.68.204 80 that is giving me errors. Not the other IP addresses. So perhaps it is only that one mirror too. |
| 01:37.15 | rwp | Changing that to stretch-security: Err:6 http://deb.debian.org stretch-security/main Sources 404 Not Found [IP: 151.101.68.204 80] |
| 01:37.25 | rwp | Still that one mirror and not the others. |
| 01:37.38 | themill | rwp: I don't know what you're putting in the sources.list, but it's not right |
| 01:37.59 | rwp | If it really needs to change stretch/updates to stretch-security then that is a snag that will catch a lot of people I am sure. |
| 01:38.06 | themill | no. |
| 01:38.26 | themill | !stretch sources.list |
| 01:38.26 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 01:38.30 | fling | de-facto: I'm converting everything to buster here |
| 01:38.36 | rwp | themill, I showed you: deb http://deb.debian.org/ stretch-security main contrib non-free |
| 01:38.41 | rwp | That is the literal line. |
| 01:38.53 | themill | And that's not right in two places ;( |
| 01:39.27 | rwp | I am waiting to be educated. :-) |
| 01:39.32 | themill | what dpkg said |
| 01:39.40 | fling | !buster sources.list |
| 01:39.40 | dpkg | Debian 9 "Stretch" has only just been released which means that it's a bad time for people who don't know a lot about Debian to be trying to use the 'testing' release (aka buster). If you have to ask this question, you shouldn't! |
| 01:39.58 | fling | wut? |
| 01:40.07 | rwp | I think that factoid needs to be updated now. |
| 01:40.28 | rwp | themill, Okay. I see that the security line needs *two* changes. That will snag even more people. Trying that... |
| 01:41.58 | dvs | rwp, but that's what themill said, two places. |
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| 01:42.27 | themill | rwp: no, it needs one change from the normal security.d.o line and that is only to change the mirror base location |
| 01:45.04 | rwp | !stretch sources.list |
| 01:45.05 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 01:45.13 | rwp | See the line: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main |
| 01:45.22 | rwp | So far that is the only completely correct line. |
| 01:46.22 | rwp | Let's check what is in the factoid for buster. |
| 01:46.29 | rwp | !buster sources.list |
| 01:46.29 | dpkg | Debian 9 "Stretch" has only just been released which means that it's a bad time for people who don't know a lot about Debian to be trying to use the 'testing' release (aka buster). If you have to ask this question, you shouldn't! |
| 01:46.36 | themill | is fixing that one |
| 01:47.12 | rwp | And I just ran out of keyboard time. Must close laptop and run. Thanks for the good discussions. I will read the scrollback when I get back online later. |
| 01:47.45 | themill | rwp: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main contrib non-free â works just fine too |
| 01:48.20 | themill | (and will often be identical to security.d.o because security.c.o melts whenever there is a kernel upgrade) |
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| 01:52.17 | fling | themill: tell me about a fine `apt-mark showmanual` list for buster minimal install :P |
| 01:53.00 | themill | !wayttd fling |
| 01:53.00 | dpkg | What Are You Trying To Do, fling? |
| 01:53.03 | de-facto | rwp fling also for buster it seems to work just fine: https://paste.debian.net/1070178/ |
| 01:53.25 | de-facto | although there are no backports yet... |
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| 01:54.03 | fling | themill: trying to unify all my debian installs, want to make them similar to each other. |
| 01:54.31 | fling | de-facto: do I need deb instead on httpredir? |
| 01:54.39 | fling | I'm using apt-cacher-ng btw |
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| 01:54.45 | de-facto | i dont know that was my question before |
| 01:54.59 | de-facto | i quickly tested above output with a Dockerfile like this: https://paste.debian.net/1070179/ |
| 01:55.32 | de-facto | fling, ooh then it might be that it still has old cache entries, i would purge its cache all together |
| 01:56.37 | zeta- | anyone know why my Tasks are all a bit messed up? Is it just me? |
| 01:57.25 | fling | zeta-: in taskwarrior? |
| 01:57.40 | fling | Try spending more time managing them. |
| 01:57.47 | fling | Start with deleting stale tasks every day |
| 01:58.02 | fling | de-facto: thanks. |
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| 01:58.21 | Marz | do you think it will be easy to install ubuntu themes to debian? |
| 01:58.22 | zeta- | err no. in aptitude |
| 01:58.47 | fling | themill: the problem is the `apt-mark showmanual` list is different on each host. |
| 01:58.51 | fling | this is what I don't like |
| 01:59.02 | Marz | looks like debian just uses the default theme from gnome that is ugly |
| 01:59.05 | fling | Some of them are upgraded from wheezy, some sid etc |
| 02:02.10 | zeta- | eg. Tasks --> debichem has 12 entries that start "ebiChem " ... |
| 02:02.46 | de-facto | i actually prefer the default gnome theme over the ubuntu mods, hence if i install a ubuntu i switch them back to the default gnome ones, but i guess one cant argue about taste ... |
| 02:04.27 | Marz | oh. ubuntu 18.10 looks nice. yaru theme is nice |
| 02:05.07 | Marz | i am wondering if i can get the same thing on debian |
| 02:05.23 | de-facto | why not? its just gnome themes, right? |
| 02:05.28 | Marz | the fonts too. |
| 02:05.36 | de-facto | there are tons on gnome-look.org |
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| 02:05.46 | Marz | nah not those community themes |
| 02:05.52 | Marz | not a fan of those. they break |
| 02:06.04 | Marz | most don't look too good |
| 02:06.22 | de-facto | and fonts are all open source, just find out how they are called and you should be able to install them on debian too i guess |
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| 02:24.50 | leptone | I'm trying to install libpng-dev in my container with: RUN apt-get upgrade && apt-get -y install libpng-dev |
| 02:25.05 | leptone | I'm getting the error: E: Unable to locate package libpng-dev |
| 02:25.14 | leptone | The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get upgrade && apt-get -y install libpng-dev' returned a non-zero code: 100 |
| 02:25.45 | leptone | Do I need to add it with add-apt-repository or something like that? |
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| 02:34.38 | dvs | leptone, did you do a apt-get update first? |
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| 02:35.34 | de-facto | leptone, maybe you can try it like this? https://paste.debian.net/1070179/ |
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| 03:05.18 | de-facto | Out of curiosity, can i use scripts inside /etc/apt/sources.list? |
| 03:05.31 | de-facto | e.g. something like "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ $(lsb_release -sc) main contrib non-free" |
| 03:05.42 | de-facto | that does not work btw... |
| 03:07.33 | de-facto | are there some predefined ${VARIABLES} inside sources.list? |
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| 03:08.23 | de-facto | e.g. some like $(ARCH) ? |
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| 03:24.56 | agio | !dpkg test |
| 03:24.56 | dpkg | Test failed. |
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| 03:44.44 | fling | debconf: delaying package configuration, since apt-utils is not installed |
| 03:44.48 | fling | do I need apt-utils? ^ |
| 03:45.07 | de-facto | thats a good question, i have the same red line |
| 03:45.19 | fling | it does not appear red for me |
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| 03:46.02 | de-facto | i guess installing apt-utils prior to the packages (in a separate apt-get) only shows that error for the installation of apt-utils itself |
| 03:46.24 | fling | I still can't get dark themes to work in qt |
| 03:46.29 | fling | How to drop bright themes? |
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| 03:47.33 | de-facto | no idea about qt |
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| 05:26.10 | z8z | What's the difference between that "Restart and upgrade" from the GUI and the normal "dist-upgrade" from terminal? |
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| 06:01.13 | jmcnaught | z8z: one uses a systemd feature to restart into a minimal environment to apply the upgrades and then restart to a normal boot, the other just upgrades without any restarts |
| 06:01.18 | jmcnaught | https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.offline-updates.html |
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| 06:48.18 | FunkyBob | does anyone know how I can feed my music player to my mic input for playing music over my game? |
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| 06:48.43 | FunkyBob | [music app is Audacious, system is using pulse] |
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| 07:01.12 | e-dt | hey, my broadcom 4360 chip isn't working. i've installed wl and it now shows up in iwconfig but not in ifconfig, does anyone know why this is happening? |
| 07:01.39 | Haohmaru | wasn't ifconfig retired? |
| 07:02.10 | e-dt | idk |
| 07:02.42 | Haohmaru | afaik it's replaced with a bunch of different things like "ip" "link" and some such |
| 07:03.37 | e-dt | it still ought to work, but i may try `ip' |
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| 07:04.52 | rwp | e-dt, To list devices: ip addr show |
| 07:05.09 | e-dt | thank you |
| 07:05.21 | e-dt | i'll do that |
| 07:06.23 | rwp | Also useful is listing the pci bus for the device IDs. lspci |
| 07:07.21 | Haohmaru | does that show stuff on ISA slots? |
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| 07:08.23 | rwp | Is this an ISA machine? And it is still running? Wow! :-) |
| 07:08.34 | rwp | e-dt, a reference you might find useful: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#Known_PCI_devices |
| 07:09.23 | Haohmaru | i'm pretty sure i got ISA slots on one of the machines at home |
| 07:09.37 | Haohmaru | not sure which one tho |
| 07:09.50 | rwp | And this looks interesting too: https://wiki.debian.org/bcm43xx |
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| 07:11.26 | rwp | Looks like the Broadcom 4360 is one of the many non-free devices that is truly a pain to make work. Sorry to hear that. Broadcom is one of the bad offenders in that area. |
| 07:12.02 | Hooloovo0 | yeah, 4300 is a huge pain |
| 07:12.52 | Hooloovo0 | has a computer with 8 isa slots... |
| 07:12.55 | Hooloovo0 | none of them are used |
| 07:13.36 | e-dt | hmm |
| 07:13.50 | e-dt | i might need to install linux-headers |
| 07:13.56 | Haohmaru | i know my ethernet card was on ISA |
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| 07:15.21 | Hooloovo0 | don't have any isa ethernet cards... I think my oldest ethernet card is for qbus |
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| 07:15.57 | Haohmaru | so i guess that must've been on my AMD Duron machine |
| 07:16.24 | Haohmaru | my "newer" ones have ethernetz on the mainboards |
| 07:17.28 | e-dt | right ill give this a go |
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| 07:18.27 | perseiver | Hello, I have a requirement for iptables configuration in Debian 9 Stretch. Actually I need to add DSCP value. (its DiffServ Code Point in IP header (6bit code)). I am getting RTP audio and RTP video packet from Softphone as I am testing SIP VOIP call. I need to mark audio packet with QCI value and video packet with another QCI value. I am using this command. iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -p udp -m udp --sport 16384:32768 -j DSCP --set-dscp-class ef |
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| 07:19.03 | perseiver | As you can see in above command that a port range is defined and marking this range with DSCP marker on IP header |
| 07:20.06 | perseiver | I am getting stuck to find out which packet send is Audio and which one is Video. and accordingly apply different DSCP class separately. |
| 07:20.41 | perseiver | As I need to configure on Debian, so I am asking here. Do anyone have idea? |
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| 07:23.08 | e-dt | ok well |
| 07:23.14 | e-dt | *something* workde |
| 07:23.17 | e-dt | *worked |
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| 07:23.21 | e-dt | i dont know what it is |
| 07:23.29 | e-dt | but i am typing this from debian right now |
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| 08:09.21 | darxmurf | how would you test if a smb share is available before to mount it in a script ? |
| 08:10.55 | darxmurf | nmap ? |
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| 08:14.04 | Fox | darxmurf: wouldn't using smbclient be more relevant ? |
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| 08:20.05 | darxmurf | like smbclient -L ? |
| 08:20.18 | Fox | for example |
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| 10:48.02 | nvz | anyone know of software for sorting out data? My father probably has about 2TB of data mostly word docs, spreadsheets, images, and videos, strewn across half a dozen drives, I'd like to copy it all to a new drive, sort and remove duplicates and such. I was just looking for advice before I script something |
| 10:51.39 | blackflow | rant: sort how, by filename? c'mon you're not a noob, you should know how to ask better. :) |
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| 10:52.23 | rant | I mean organize it in some meaningful way.. like sorting out into the default freedesktop Documents, Videos, Images kinda deal |
| 10:52.39 | toruvinn | that's tough. for documents i think you need to do hash checking. for images you could do that too, but there's better stuff out there. i know geeqie can find duplicates quite nicely - by content. |
| 10:52.42 | rant | his drives are a mess and data is strewn everywhere and he probably has a ton of duplicates |
| 10:53.20 | rant | yeah I use geeqie but I'm looking to automate this not manually look over results, and mostly only concerned with actual checksum duplicates |
| 10:54.45 | toruvinn | there's always the "if it's a duplicate, which one you keep?" problem. not really if we're going by hashes, i guess, but for by-content duplicates i'd be worried with things automatically picking stuff for me. |
| 10:55.57 | toruvinn | for hash, what stops you froim find /path/ -type f -print0 | xargs -0 sha1sum > /tmp/sha1sums and then sorting it and just removing all ocurrences except the first for each hash. maybe include filesize too if you're worried about hash collisions. |
| 10:56.03 | toruvinn | s/froim/from/ |
| 10:56.18 | booyah | how do you stop service foo from auto-starting at bootup |
| 10:56.21 | rant | yeah I wasnt going to fret over any of that if I scripted something I was just going to have it try pull all similar data types into a location.. preferably retaining any existing organizational scheme like the parent folder name, then hash everything and go back and remove all duplicates |
| 10:56.27 | pagios | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:56.32 | toruvinn | booyah, systemctl disable foo or something |
| 10:56.36 | rant | booyah: you could systemctl disable the service |
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| 10:57.22 | booyah | thx |
| 10:59.07 | rant | pagios: you are writing to the target machine, but could still have I/O waits on the network but wouldnt be the same as disk I/O wait per-se. Depends on what your really concerned about I suppose |
| 10:59.35 | pagios | i am concerned to know if there is a tmp disk io on local machine |
| 11:00.06 | rant | pagios: as in if its caching in memory? |
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| 11:00.09 | blackflow | booyah: note that "disabled" services can still run if triggered by other means. you can "mask" to completely forbid the service from starting. |
| 11:00.23 | pagios | yes |
| 11:00.30 | pagios | disk |
| 11:01.01 | ayekat | but if it's triggered by something else, it may be worth investigating what triggers it before flat-out masking it |
| 11:01.12 | rant | pagios: by default, no local caching would be done as I understand it.. but its possible to do it |
| 11:02.45 | rant | pagios: possibly of interest http://www.admin-magazine.com/HPC/Articles/Useful-NFS-Options-for-Tuning-and-Management http://xmodulo.com/how-to-enable-local-file-caching-for-nfs-share-on-linux.html https://www.avidandrew.com/understanding-nfs-caching.html |
| 11:03.19 | blackflow | booyah: ayekat's advice is sound |
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| 11:04.09 | petn-randall | rant: I have used fdupes in the past to remove identical copies of files. You can then in the next step copy files around by what `file` knows about it, I guess. |
| 11:04.17 | rant | pagios: "NFS Version 3 introduces the concept of Weak Cache Consistency. Weak Cache Consistency helps NFS Version 3 clients more quickly detect changes to files that are modified by other clients. This is done by returning extra attribute information in a server's reply to a read or write operation. A client can use this information to decide whether its data and attribute caches are stale." |
| 11:04.23 | rant | http://nfs.sourceforge.net/ |
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| 11:06.23 | rant | pagios: nfs caching options are most significant if you have multiple machines/users accessing the same data simultaneously |
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| 11:08.36 | rant | petn-randall: yeah I looked into fdupes before but problem with tools like that is, it expects two file paths to consider.. I have hundreds of file paths across multiple drives.. looks like scripting something may be the way to go.. that way I can retain some existing organizational structure, sort data by types, and remove duplicates |
| 11:09.11 | petn-randall | rant: It does have the -r option ... |
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| 11:15.06 | rant | petn-randall: idk I guess that'd work if you supplied the rootdir as the source .. I think it may just be easier to script something.. I got a couple large disks coming, I should be able to copy all his drives to one disk then work on the copy, organize it.. then format all his drives and work out some kinda better scheme. I'd like to try retain as much existing organizational data such as any existing |
| 11:15.12 | rant | directory structure, timestamps, etc, as possible |
| 11:15.43 | booyah | for Jessie, which apt versions are vulnerable and which are not? |
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| 11:16.28 | petn-randall | booyah: You can look up the CVE on the tracker of doom: |
| 11:16.31 | petn-randall | !tracker of doom |
| 11:16.31 | dpkg | The Tracker of Doom is a vulnerability database maintained by the Debian security team, viewable at http://security-tracker.debian.org/ . Ask me about <cve lookup CVE-yyyy-nnnn> to get Debian-specific information on a CVE number. See also http://www.debian.org/security/crossreferences or ask me about <debsecan> http://www.enyo.de/fw/software/debsecan/ |
| 11:17.10 | rant | booyah: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2019-3462 |
| 11:18.28 | booyah | on Jessie, can't upgrade the apot |
| 11:18.31 | booyah | *the apt |
| 11:18.51 | booyah | apt upgrade apt -o Acquire... gives following pack.. unmet depend.. |
| 11:19.00 | petn-randall | !bat |
| 11:19.01 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 11:19.01 | booyah | apt: depends libapt-pkg5.0 but is not going to be installed |
| 11:19.21 | petn-randall | booyah: Can you provide all of the above info in a single paste? It seems as you have other issues. ^^^ |
| 11:19.34 | petn-randall | *though |
| 11:20.39 | booyah | ye |
| 11:22.14 | rant | booyah: (apt -s upgrade apt; apt policy; apt policy apt libapt-pkg5.0) | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 11:28.29 | booyah | petn-randall: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/5ca57772/ |
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| 11:30.24 | booyah | and running just upgrade will install some upgrades, but apt apt-utils curl libc-bin and others "have been kept back" |
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| 11:39.28 | booyah | anyone? |
| 11:39.55 | booyah | I have identical problem on another Jessie box too. |
| 11:40.45 | blackflow | booyah: you have a confusing policy there, looks like security updates are for Stretch (stable), and not for Jessie |
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| 11:43.12 | booyah | oh right. copy-pasted the cnd-fastly link from Stretch box. that's the problem |
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| 11:43.59 | booyah | hm by running upgrade (as much as possible) using that link, didnt I accidentially ended up now with mixed jessie-stretch distro? how to confirm |
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| 11:44.21 | booyah | myabe some security upgrades were just now installed from stretch while rest of system is on jessie |
| 11:44.41 | blackflow | booyah: you may have ended up with a frankenjessie, yes |
| 11:44.46 | booyah | thanks apt |
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| 11:44.56 | booyah | how about a word of warning ;?) |
| 11:44.58 | blackflow | apt: thanks, human. |
| 11:44.58 | apt | my pleasure, blackflow |
| 11:45.07 | booyah | blackflow: thanks developers for not coding in a warning for that |
| 11:45.43 | blackflow | booyah: warning for what exactly? :) how is apt supposed to know that's not what you want? thenames "jessie, stretch, stable" are just arbitrary names in the repo source list. |
| 11:45.49 | booyah | if (that_package_distro != your_distro) warn("are you sure you want franken-distro?") |
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| 11:46.01 | blackflow | it the metadata in those locations that actually count, not names per se |
| 11:46.04 | booyah | blackflow: that is imo stupid design |
| 11:46.43 | blackflow | booyah: not at all. allows you to run your own repos, with whatever versions you want. and you could name them the same, but use a different URL of course, and there's no way for apt to guess what you meant. |
| 11:46.59 | booyah | maintainer should release (signed) manifests stating that given version of package, with given sha256, is now (date) indended for distro DISTRO |
| 11:47.19 | booyah | instead of relaying on URLs, which btw was root of this epical apt exploit anyway |
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| 11:47.27 | blackflow | booyah: mixing repos is supported, albeit not recommended unless you know what you're doing. your suggestion would've prevented that |
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| 11:48.11 | booyah | yeah that was we would not rely on URLs like if it's a project someone hacks up in bash during afternoon break, eliminate some security problems, and let dpkg/apt be aware of [mixing]distros |
| 11:48.16 | booyah | s/was/way |
| 11:48.46 | blackflow | and with that you nuke advanced use cases where mixing repos is under control. no thanks. |
| 11:48.59 | booyah | blackflow: it would prevent it because then apt is sure which distro recommends which version of package |
| 11:49.25 | booyah | blackflow: nothing gets nuked, it is a warning, of course with setting it would proceed |
| 11:49.53 | booyah | apt config would be like distro=jessie distros_frankenstein=stretch,buster |
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| 11:50.43 | blackflow | booyah: well for starters, you'd need an explicit -t to install from a newer repo, that's why adding backports won't automagically install anything from backports unless you -t, so that part works as you suggest |
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| 11:51.06 | blackflow | I'm not sure what exactly happens with updates. I also said you "may've", not you definitely did have, ended with a frankenjessie. |
| 11:51.06 | booyah | how to confirm do I right now have packages that are not from jessie? |
| 11:51.14 | blackflow | s/updates/security updates/ |
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| 11:53.27 | blackflow | booyah: the only way I know is to cross-reference "Package" and "Version" from /var/lib/apt/lists/... with what dpkg's database knows is installed |
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| 11:56.18 | blackflow | (yes there's that annoying lack of function in apt or dpkg to tell easily which repo is the package installed from) |
| 11:56.36 | booyah | also steeming from that super hacky way based on URLs |
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| 11:58.02 | booyah | jessie-updates repo still works? im getting errors on it (maybe due to disabled redirect http) |
| 12:00.06 | blackflow | booyah: supposedly 'till june next year |
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| 12:55.16 | KOLANICH | Hi everybody. How can I make debian/package.links work |
| 12:55.19 | KOLANICH | ? |
| 12:57.44 | themill | you might need some context such as what have you tried and how does it not work |
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| 13:00.35 | KOLANICH | themill: I am trying to build a package with dh . dh_link is executed, package.links file is present, but the resulting data.tar.xz in the deb has no symlinks |
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| 13:07.01 | themill | Would be helpful to actually see it |
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| 13:11.38 | KOLANICH | themill: what do you mean |
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| 13:12.22 | themill | debian/foobar.links, debian/rules for instance |
| 13:12.42 | themill | I can't actually see your monitor, in case you were wondering.... ;) |
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| 13:16.36 | KOLANICH | themill: thank you. I have named it "package.links" literaly. |
| 13:16.54 | themill | ah |
| 13:17.03 | KOLANICH | themill: changed and that started working |
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| 13:17.34 | themill | yes, that would do it. |
| 13:17.35 | KOLANICH | maybe the docs need to be fixed to make it clear that `package` is a template |
| 13:18.01 | themill | It is marked as such |
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| 13:18.41 | KOLANICH | themill: I see that, but IMHO it is not enough clear |
| 13:18.50 | themill | (and debhelper(7) explicitly says that it is) |
| 13:19.18 | KOLANICH | thanks, bye. |
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| 13:44.54 | muhaha | How to enable pulseaudio in userspace from root? systemctl --user disable pulseaudio - > Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory |
| 13:46.02 | muhaha | Like sudo -H -u otheruser bash -c 'systemctl --user disable pulseaudio' ? Is this correct? |
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| 13:53.57 | ayekat | machinectl would be the canonical way, as it properly starts the user session required for systemctl to work (+ required environment variables) |
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| 13:54.21 | ayekat | more hacky ways involve sudo + setting XDG_RUNTIME_DIR manually, but I'm not sure to what extent this will work without a running session |
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| 13:54.36 | ayekat | or just removing the symlink manually (also rather hacky) |
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| 13:56.08 | ayekat | ah no, not XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, but DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS |
| 13:56.56 | ayekat | that being said, I don't have a debian under my hands right now, so I can't say for debian-specific quirks :-} |
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| 14:01.14 | muhaha | So this https://stackoverflow.com/a/34347560/37973 and systemctl --user enable pulseaudio |
| 14:01.16 | muhaha | ? |
| 14:01.50 | muhaha | oh, never heard about machinectl :X |
| 14:02.03 | ayekat | yeah - that is the hacky approach if you don't want to use machinectl |
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| 14:02.58 | jmcnaught | machinectl is for controlling containers |
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| 14:04.45 | ayekat | jmcnaught: as well |
| 14:05.06 | marz | i have an optimus laptop with nvidia and intel. on ubuntu the drivers installed fine and i was able to use nvidia config to chose the video card. |
| 14:05.15 | marz | there was a menu called prime profile |
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| 14:05.42 | marz | on debian i can't even get the drivers to work. installing them results in a black screen or when i login and crashes |
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| 14:05.55 | marz | shouldn't debian and ubuntu work the same |
| 14:06.08 | ksk | !ubuntu |
| 14:06.08 | dpkg | Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>. |
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| 14:06.13 | greycat | No. If they were the same, there wouldn't be two of 'em. |
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| 14:06.30 | ayekat | muhaha: `machinectl --uid {user} shell .host /bin/bash` would give you a shell as {user} |
| 14:06.39 | ksk | marz: you sure you got the right driver? Is the one in ubuntu newer? maybe you would want to check backports |
| 14:06.56 | jmcnaught | !bumblebee |
| 14:06.56 | dpkg | The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <wheezy-backports>. http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee http://bumblebee-project.org/ #bumblebee on irc.freenode.net. |
| 14:07.14 | jmcnaught | marz: ^^ there's instructions in the wiki link in this factoid |
| 14:07.30 | Guifle | hello, can you help please? I have been trying to fix this error on other channels, but couldn't yet.. I am trying to reinstall grub2; https://paste.debian.net/plain/1070206 |
| 14:08.41 | petn-randall | Guifle: What other channels have you already asked? |
| 14:08.51 | Guifle | petn-randall, on #linux |
| 14:09.05 | Guifle | but it's been a while and we have tried a few things |
| 14:09.06 | petn-randall | Guifle: I see. What OS release are you running? |
| 14:09.23 | Guifle | I have debian with missing grub |
| 14:09.30 | Guifle | I am using a lubuntu live usb now |
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| 14:09.57 | Guifle | debian stretch |
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| 14:10.27 | petn-randall | Guifle: What happened that you ended up with a non-working grub? |
| 14:10.42 | jmcnaught | ayekat: why not just use "sudo -i"? Using a tool that manipulates containers and VMs just to get a shell as a user seems more complicated than it needs to be |
| 14:11.07 | muhaha | ayekat. Thanks I will try it (well, its another package to install ) |
| 14:11.08 | pzn | Hi! My apache is receiving SIGTERM sometimes (5th time in 2 months-period) all I can see in apache logs is "caught SIGTERM, shutting down". How can I diagnose what process is generating this signal? |
| 14:11.26 | greycat | You can't. That information is not given to the process. |
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| 14:12.12 | Guifle | petn-randall, grub was installed on another OS on the same disk. I removed this OS, and grub was gone. |
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| 14:12.33 | petn-randall | Guifle: Ah, so you had Ubuntu or something installed in parallel? |
| 14:12.43 | Guifle | petn-randall, during updates of OSes grub gets installed from one OS to the other, and the last time it was on another system. |
| 14:12.58 | pzn | greycat, already checked syslog (cron) and dmesg to see if there is any "coincidence" between the times that apache got the sigterm. could't find any. know any other places to dig? |
| 14:13.04 | Guifle | petn-randall, yes |
| 14:13.10 | Guifle | but I deleted it |
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| 14:13.25 | pagnol | is there something I can use to install all missing dynamically linked libraries with apt given an executable? |
| 14:13.43 | petn-randall | Guifle: Then it should be enough to chroot into the system, run `grub-install /dev/<yourrootdisk>`, and then finish it off with `update-grub`. |
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| 14:14.02 | petn-randall | relevant bits: |
| 14:14.02 | Guifle | petn-randall, I did these, but "update-grub" gave above error that I pasted |
| 14:14.03 | petn-randall | !chroot |
| 14:14.03 | dpkg | To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target". |
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| 14:14.28 | petn-randall | Guifle: What was the exact command + output from the other command then? |
| 14:14.52 | Guifle | petn-randall I followed the steps here; https://howtoubuntu.org/how-to-repair-restore-reinstall-grub-2-with-a-ubuntu-live-cd |
| 14:15.40 | Guifle | petn-randall, your paste above shows different commands, should I maybe try with those again? |
| 14:17.28 | petn-randall | Guifle: Pretty much the same. What did you exactly run for `grub-install /dev/<yourrootdisk>`, and what was the output? |
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| 14:20.46 | xormor | is icedtea-netx useless for me in Debian repos? the update that was "pending" did not come for a week or so. I grew tired of waiting for it (I used apt) and removed it altogether so it would not "pollute" my system with whatever would come from the net. I think it is a Java component. It seems my browsers do not need it when I am doing the usual browsing of WWW pages. |
| 14:21.31 | xormor | I do not play Java games anymore. |
| 14:22.11 | xormor | thank you in advance if you take the effort to answer my question. |
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| 14:23.11 | xormor | I think icedtea-netx is a Java or JavaScript component, that has nothing to do with Flash. It might have other purposes too. I will have to do a "apt show icedtea-netx" for it. |
| 14:24.06 | xormor | JNLP, I do not need it currently. |
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| 14:24.40 | Guifle | petn-randall, I ran "grub-install /dev/sda" and the output said at the end "installation complete, no errors reported" |
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| 14:26.11 | xormor | Java is a thing of the past for me, so is Flash, like COMMAND.COM. Occassionally I use DosBox, the Debian stable repo version. I know how to hack MS-DOS ;-D I am so old. I am 38. |
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| 14:27.18 | Fox | you're young |
| 14:27.21 | petn-randall | Guifle: And you ran that inside the chroot? |
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| 14:28.20 | greycat | I'm guessing 38 is a bit over the median age here, but it's impossible to be certain. |
| 14:29.10 | Guifle | petn.randall, yes |
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| 14:32.59 | jmcnaught | xormor: you're probably fine without java in the browser, I haven't needed it in years. Worry about it if you end up needing it later. |
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| 14:39.38 | petn-randall | Guifle: And you also ran 'grub-install --recheck /dev/sda'? |
| 14:39.55 | Guifle | petn-randall, yes |
| 14:40.09 | Guifle | also reported no errors |
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| 14:40.46 | petn-randall | Guifle: Then I don't know, since that be generating a new device map and overwriting the old one, and in your next step it's failing on that. |
| 14:40.52 | petn-randall | Guifle: How did you enter the chroot? |
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| 14:40.55 | pagnol | installing missing dynamically linked libraries is so tedious |
| 14:41.17 | Guifle | petn-randall, sudo chroot /mnt |
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| 14:49.42 | petn-randall | Guifle: And you bind mounted dev proc sys into the chroot in /mnt, right? |
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| 14:57.27 | Guifle | petn-randall, as in the link I pasted above, I first rant the mount --bind commands, then ran chroot |
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| 14:57.32 | Guifle | ran* |
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| 15:05.44 | Haxxa | open-iscsi requires configfs to be mounted at /config will I break anything changing it from /sys/kernel/config |
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| 15:23.28 | tw | Haxxa: mount it in both places if you absolutely must have it there. |
| 15:23.34 | tw | or mount -o bind |
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| 16:07.35 | script8391 | hello |
| 16:07.51 | jasonwc | Hello all, I'm getting emails from cron every morning because a zfs send is preventing zfs-auto-snapshot from removing snapshots (as expected). In order to stop receiving emails from cron, can I just set MAILTO="" |
| 16:07.51 | jasonwc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:08.32 | colo-work | yes, but you could also redirect stdio fds into a file for that particular cronjob. |
| 16:08.39 | colo-work | or use a systemd-timer instead of that cronjob |
| 16:08.48 | Fox | jasonwc: you would disable mail for every cron, why don't you put it in the faulty cron file ? |
| 16:08.51 | script8391 | good one |
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| 16:11.16 | greycat | Or you could fix your zfs-thing to not run at a time when your zfs-otherthing is running. |
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| 16:15.53 | jasonwc | greycat, This is normal behavior. The system takes snapshots every 15 minutes. While a send is in progress, you can't delete in-use snapshots. I suppose I could just direct output from that cron line to /dev/null |
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| 16:23.56 | cusco | jasonwc: If a undersired stderr or stdout exists, I would point it to /dev/null |
| 16:24.23 | greycat | or a log file that you create specifically to keep track of this stuff |
| 16:24.26 | cusco | but knowing I would never care for any output whatsoever, even if it was the lottery winning numbers |
| 16:25.07 | cusco | I would agree on a plain log file ... |
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| 16:29.23 | muhaha | ayekat I tried this: sudo -i -H -u myuser bash -c "systemctl --user enable pulseaudio", but does not work, in this case XDG and DBUS env are not set |
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| 16:30.12 | greycat | why... on earth... |
| 16:30.45 | muhaha | :D any better idea? |
| 16:31.09 | greycat | ... run the thing as you in some dot file that runs when you log in? |
| 16:31.24 | greycat | why on earth are you trying to fake being yourself? |
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| 16:32.39 | petn-randall | gives greycat a biscuit to calm down. |
| 16:32.41 | muhaha | I know that systemctl --user enable pulseaudio is idempotent, but why to run in multiple times |
| 16:32.50 | muhaha | *t |
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| 16:33.29 | greycat | I'm calm enough. Just totally confused. lastlog only shows one other line from muhaha, over 2 hours ago, and no indication what the problem is. |
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| 16:33.56 | greycat | It LOOKS like s/he's trying to run something that should oughta be run by a user, from a root crontab or something. |
| 16:34.00 | greycat | So I have no idea why. |
| 16:34.18 | muhaha | At provisioning time... No at run time.... |
| 16:34.28 | greycat | "provisioning" .... this means docker or something? |
| 16:34.32 | muhaha | vagrant |
| 16:34.42 | greycat | !vagrant |
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| 16:39.17 | greycat | In any event, I am strongly reminded of a recent thread on debian-user with lots of links to stackoverflow posts by jdebp. |
| 16:41.34 | greycat | https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/02/msg00780.html |
| 16:42.24 | greycat | But... I have no idea what a vagrant is (neither does dpkg), so if it's some virtual containerifyization wossname doohicky and none of this applies to it, well, so be it. |
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| 16:53.50 | jelly | I did not expect useful info under stackoverflow answers. |
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| 17:04.45 | Tenkawa | its amazing how much faster these newer laptop cpus are nowadays |
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| 18:11.16 | muhaha | greycat: well, sudo -u www-data DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:path=/run/user/`id -u www-data`/bus systemctl --user will do the trick then... |
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| 18:12.34 | greycat | I won't even ask why in the hell you're using systemd to control pulseaudio for what I'm guessing is some kind of kiosk system. |
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| 18:12.48 | greycat | Instead of, y'know, just letting straight ALSA do its thing. |
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| 18:16.33 | muhaha | I need to use PA, alsa is no option for me :) |
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| 18:19.48 | wonderer | hi all |
| 18:20.29 | wonderer | is there a good guide is settng up a simple mailserver/function that runs on my deb 9 box |
| 18:21.12 | wonderer | looking at secure mail servers runnigon the os nothing fancy, just to have it be utilized by my WP sites... |
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| 18:23.53 | jmcnaught | wonderer: setting up and maintaining a mail server isn't trivial, following a guide without understanding what's going on is not advised. However if you simply need wordpress sites to be able to send mail, look at using a nullmailer like msmtp-mta or ssmtp to send your mail through an email service provider |
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| 18:27.01 | wonderer | thats the problem service providers charge per mailbox |
| 18:27.24 | wonderer | and i have 20sites with indiviualised domains... |
| 18:27.52 | wonderer | and smtp/pop3 access not allowed on free plan when mx records as pointed to the mail provider |
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| 18:28.01 | wonderer | i have been using zoho |
| 18:28.19 | jmcnaught | do you need to receive mail? |
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| 18:39.19 | jhutchins_wk | wonderer: It's pretty easy with just postfix & debconf. |
| 18:40.11 | jhutchins_wk | wonderer: Do you have RDNS? |
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| 18:57.32 | pthomas | hello, I have an up-to-date debian stretch arm64 install, and linuxptp seems to hose sshd |
| 18:58.35 | pthomas | whenever linuxptp is installed I get "ssh_dispatch_run_fatal: Connection from 10.244.33.4 port 52630: Resource temporarily unavailable [preauth]" lines when trying to connect via ssh |
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| 19:00.08 | wonderer | pthomas Just curios on linuxptp use? |
| 19:00.18 | wonderer | whats its purppose |
| 19:01.08 | pthomas | I need to do some ethernet packet timing so I need the hardware timestamps |
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| 19:01.25 | pthomas | OK just removing the service seems to be enough |
| 19:01.27 | wonderer | debhelper and other ops - fabc1 is PV spamming |
| 19:01.38 | wonderer | pm spamming |
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| 19:01.56 | wonderer | oic pthomas |
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| 19:02.20 | wonderer | i use tcpdump |
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| 19:02.38 | wonderer | i use tcpdump - /path/to/log etccc |
| 19:02.47 | wonderer | i use tcpdump -o /path/to/log etccc |
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| 19:03.05 | pthomas | tcpdump is nice, but if you want hw timestamps you need to use IEEE 1588 i.e. ptp |
| 19:03.58 | pthomas | the Ethernet adapter actually timestamps the packets as they are recieved and transmitted |
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| 19:12.41 | wonderer | pthomas interesting, nice to know... will look into it too thx |
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| 19:27.47 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.8 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 19:27.52 | johnfg | hammer065: I got it too. |
| 19:27.56 | hammer065 | And if that happens to multiple users, I classify this as spam |
| 19:28.00 | penpatde | if you absolutely dont want private messages, then you can turn it off |
| 19:28.02 | hammer065 | See? |
| 19:28.22 | hammer065 | penpatde I want PMs, but not randomly from random people |
| 19:28.47 | hammer065 | Whatever, I'm gonna contact somebody on #freenode ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 19:29.06 | penpatde | shrugs |
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| 19:32.38 | rant | does anyone know wth this debhelper-compat is? I frequently find issues regarding this with checking dependencies for backporting and no such package seems to exist |
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| 19:35.46 | rant | hmm apparently it has to do with compatibility versioning of debhelper |
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| 19:36.25 | rant | I'm just still not understanding why maintainers are doing this |
| 19:36.45 | krabador | fabc1, what's up? |
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| 19:46.05 | jhutchins_wk | hammer065: DMs are something that happens on irc, it's one of the features. Primly insisting that you shouldn't be botthered by the anonymous masses is silly. |
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| 19:50.05 | johnfg | hey guys |
| 19:50.31 | johnfg | all went well after running grub-install /dev/sda. Back to normal. |
| 19:51.00 | johnfg | Just ran apt update and got this message: E: Release file for http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch-updates/InRelease is expired (invalid since 5h 17min 2s). Updates for this repository will not be applied. |
| 19:51.08 | johnfg | Anything I should do about it? |
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| 19:52.33 | greycat | Didn't happen for me, testing just now. |
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| 19:53.16 | johnfg | greycat: thanks! |
| 19:53.32 | johnfg | Other repos, no errors. |
| 19:53.39 | greycat | So, maybe it's just *one* of the ftp.us.d.o mirrors that's doing it and I got lucky, or maybe they just fixed it a few seconds ago, or ... who knows. |
| 19:54.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1518] by debhelper |
| 19:54.23 | greycat | Oh, whoops, I don't actually have a stretch-updates line on this one. Let's fix that.... |
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| 19:55.42 | greycat | OK, still no errors for me. |
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| 20:17.56 | jhutchins_wk | !mirror status |
| 20:17.57 | dpkg | Debian mirrors have timestamp files we use to determine how recently they have been updated. Here are some statistics the mirror maintainers provide: https://mirror-master.debian.org/status/mirror-status.html and http://ftp.de.debian.org/dmc/today/ Ask me about <mirrors>. #debian-mirrors on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 20:18.48 | jhutchins_wk | Johann: Give it a while (might already be long enough), do an update, try again. |
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| 20:46.53 | Mister_X | hello guys |
| 20:47.18 | Mister_X | I'm hitting an issue where in the installer, the mouse cursor is there but it doesn't work |
| 20:47.23 | Mister_X | the keyboard however works |
| 20:47.34 | Mister_X | I'm trying to get the Xorg log file out |
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| 20:48.24 | Mister_X | Ctrl-Alt-F2/F3 gets me a limited console (busybox/initrd I think) |
| 20:48.50 | Mister_X | tried to plug thumbdrive, didn't show up in /dev |
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| 20:49.33 | Mister_X | tried to mount a partitioned hard disk, mount fails with "invalid argument" |
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| 20:51.02 | Mister_X | trying to specify -t ext4 didn't help |
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| 20:51.13 | Mister_X | and tried again that same command, succeeded |
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| 21:20.40 | JC_SoCal | Does anyone have an idea how to fix this? Most posts I've found discuss editing a file in /sys -- however I can't get access to the system without booting from a cd and mounting /dev/sda1 and because /sys is a tempfs, it isn't present when i mount the drive. [ 12.404765] leds dell::kbd_backlight: Setting an LEDs brightness failed (-5) I have a screen image here: https://imgur.com/a/esj8QHa the system halts at this point |
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| 21:21.54 | kreyren | Is this sane sources.list? http://ix.io/1C7u or can i use czech mirror for the dep.debian too? |
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| 21:24.31 | jmcnaught | kreyren: are you trying to have a stable system or a testing system? I would the release code name (buster) instead of testing. Also make sure to never uncomment the ubuntu repos, you cannot mix ubuntu and debian |
| 21:24.53 | jmcnaught | also testing support is on irc.oftc.net in the #debian-next channel |
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| 21:25.40 | ussie | guys I have tried ask question on #networking but I think it is my system problem not configuration |
| 21:25.43 | ussie | or i am stupid |
| 21:26.40 | ussie | i have tried to make a bridge between two network interfaces (virtual and physical), 4 different ways, iptable way. nothing. |
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| 21:26.56 | ussie | do I have to turn on something? |
| 21:27.00 | kreyren | mcnaught: Wanted stable, but prefer more recent packages |
| 21:27.05 | kreyren | alike rust 1.32.0 |
| 21:27.38 | kreyren | mcnaught: debian-next is invite only |
| 21:27.41 | jmcnaught | kreyren: well you also cannot mix stable and testing, it just becomes a semi-upgraded testing system. For newer packages there's stretch-backports, also you can manually backport some packages |
| 21:27.52 | kreyren | mcnaught: so drop backports? |
| 21:27.53 | jmcnaught | kreyren: you missed the part where I said "on irc.oftc.net" |
| 21:28.00 | kreyren | ah noted |
| 21:28.08 | jmcnaught | kreyren: backports are good, mixing stable and testing is bad |
| 21:28.30 | kreyren | mcnaught: what do you recommend? expected stable system with more recent packages |
| 21:28.30 | petn-randall | ussie: bridging interfaces does not involve iptables, that might be your problem. |
| 21:28.46 | kreyren | mcnaught: alike i need rust 1.32.0 atm |
| 21:28.50 | petn-randall | ,v rust |
| 21:28.52 | judd | No package named 'rust' was found in amd64. |
| 21:28.53 | greycat | I recommend not expecting obviously impossible things. |
| 21:29.06 | ussie | no, I have iptables instead bridges - to forward traffic |
| 21:29.07 | jmcnaught | kreyren: my advice is to install a stable system, then use a container or chroot for stuff like newer rust |
| 21:29.11 | kreyren | it's `rustc` package afaik |
| 21:29.11 | ussie | i have tried |
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| 21:29.25 | petn-randall | ussie: That's not briding then. |
| 21:29.34 | ussie | i have iptables too |
| 21:29.35 | greycat | ,v rustc |
| 21:29.36 | judd | Package: rustc on amd64 -- stretch: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1~deb9u4; buster: 1.32.0+dfsg1-1; sid: 1.32.0+dfsg1-1 |
| 21:29.37 | ussie | damn |
| 21:29.42 | ussie | i have tried iptables too |
| 21:30.18 | greycat | Isn't rust a compiler or something? What are you planning to *do* with it? If it compiles something, you won't be able to run it on a stable system. |
| 21:30.23 | kreyren | or are backports included in testing repo already? |
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| 21:30.54 | kreyren | greycat: learning rust and need new version |
| 21:31.00 | greycat | "I want a stable system but I want to develop programs using bleeding edge dev tools" is just not a viable thing. Your products will require bleeding edge runtime environments. |
| 21:31.02 | ussie | i have read great docs about bridgeing and forwarding |
| 21:31.16 | ussie | i have tried all ideas |
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| 21:31.38 | kreyren | greycat: expected to use debian as backupOS so i want it maintainance free with recent packages and all security updates ideally |
| 21:31.49 | ussie | i only know about sysctl forwadting option |
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| 21:31.55 | jmcnaught | kreyren: stuff is backported *from* testing, there is no testing-backports. For what it's worth, lots of people do run testing on their desktops just know that there are no security updates for testing, and that stuff breaks sometimes during upgrades |
| 21:31.58 | ussie | i turned it on |
| 21:32.01 | petn-randall | ussie: I think you need to read up on the basics before attempting things. i can recommend https://netfilter.org/documentation/index.html, see the section networking concepts howto. |
| 21:32.32 | ussie | i know iptables |
| 21:32.40 | ussie | i don't need basics |
| 21:32.52 | kreyren | mcnaught: elaborate on no security updates for testing? |
| 21:32.59 | ussie | i am just crying here ;) |
| 21:33.04 | ussie | i wanna hug |
| 21:33.12 | ussie | please |
| 21:33.15 | petn-randall | Sounds like you want us to solve it without understanding the basics. |
| 21:33.29 | petn-randall | *without you understanding the basics. |
| 21:33.37 | kreyren | ussie: https://media1.tenor.com/images/4d89d7f963b41a416ec8a55230dab31b/tenor.gif?itemid=5166500 |
| 21:33.48 | jmcnaught | kreyren: stable gets security fixes from the security team, testing doesn't. testing only gets updates that migrate from unstable as part of the over all development process of the distro |
| 21:34.39 | kreyren | mcnaught: so security patches on stable are ported from testing? |
| 21:34.45 | ussie | i think i am ok with iptables |
| 21:34.45 | kreyren | *testing or sid |
| 21:35.02 | ussie | but bridging is a magic to me |
| 21:35.08 | greycat | No. Security patches in stable are BACKPORTED from upstream fixes TO the stable version. |
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| 21:35.43 | greycat | Stable is a self-contained system. It does not get anything from unstable/testing. |
| 21:35.44 | kreyren | greycat: so i get all security patches on stable? (want to avoid using sid) |
| 21:35.50 | petn-randall | ussie: It's magic since you just learned the difference 10 minutes ago. Let us know when you've read up on the topic, then debugging will become a lot easier. |
| 21:36.13 | ussie | i am working on it for 10 hours |
| 21:36.49 | kreyren | spent 12 hours trying to make hello world in rust and he keeps failing if it makes ussie feel better |
| 21:37.24 | ussie | do you know what the problem is? |
| 21:37.33 | ussie | i have nobody to talk to about this kind of stuff |
| 21:37.45 | kreyren | ussie: tldr what is the issue? |
| 21:37.48 | ussie | all my friends do php |
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| 21:38.28 | ussie | now? i want to figure out how can I use device A to connecto via device B |
| 21:38.49 | kreyren | ussie: elaborate |
| 21:38.55 | ussie | ok |
| 21:39.03 | kreyren | and make it short plz |
| 21:39.12 | ussie | curl --interface virtual-one google.com |
| 21:39.28 | ussie | me -> curl -> veth0 -> eth0 -> google.com |
| 21:39.42 | ussie | google.com -> eth0 ->veth0 -> curl -> me |
| 21:39.55 | kreyren | what do you expect from it? |
| 21:39.56 | kreyren | VPN? |
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| 21:40.26 | ussie | what do you mean - VPN? |
| 21:40.46 | ussie | i have tried namespaces but it is not good solution |
| 21:41.51 | kreyren | what is abstract of this operation |
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| 21:42.11 | kreyren | -> what do you hope to achieve doing this |
| 21:42.24 | ussie | now? just wanna learn |
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| 21:42.37 | ussie | finaly - i wanna to finish my project |
| 21:42.47 | ussie | I'll put my pastebin |
| 21:43.29 | kreyren | again what do you want to do why do you need device A to connect via device B |
| 21:45.43 | kreyren | i guess you can set device B as proxy server and then set curl to download from a proxy.. if i understand you correctly |
| 21:45.57 | ussie | https://pastebin.com/Jrz37Phw |
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| 21:46.26 | ussie | this is what i am doing - probably i do it wrong because I don't understand it |
| 21:46.39 | ksk | WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO |
| 21:46.54 | kreyren | +1 ksk |
| 21:46.58 | ksk | explain it to us like you would explain it to your six-year old sister please. |
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| 21:47.07 | kreyren | *5 y.o |
| 21:47.09 | ksk | else, you just keep wasting your and our time. |
| 21:47.16 | ussie | ok, I'll use pastebin, ok? |
| 21:47.22 | kreyren | use words here |
| 21:47.36 | ussie | to much words |
| 21:47.40 | kreyren | just make it so that idiot like me understads it |
| 21:47.46 | ksk | there should be no need. 1 to 3 short sentences on what you want $computer to do |
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| 21:47.52 | kreyren | +1 |
| 21:48.03 | ksk | !xyproblem |
| 21:48.03 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
| 21:48.12 | kreyren | +1 |
| 21:48.13 | gpsych | Hello, my AVLinux install seems to be deleting my configs from /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/, namely 90-synaptics.conf. I'm trying to get it to supersede libinput for my touchpad... |
| 21:48.29 | *** join/#debian rpifan (~rpifan@ipb218f0a1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 21:48.37 | ksk | kreyren: also, it might take some time, but I really suggest you read that XyProblem link from the bot. |
| 21:49.05 | gpsych | I'm using XFCE, which has a not-fully-featured mouse configuration GUI, and I'm not sure if it's responsible |
| 21:49.15 | ksk | gpsych: Is AVLinux a distro? We support debian in here. |
| 21:49.20 | kreyren | ksk: for my usecase i need stable, secure OS that i can use as a backup for Gentoo and LFS with recent packages. |
| 21:49.25 | gpsych | It uses Debian Stretch |
| 21:49.39 | gpsych | I could move to the unofficial channel |
| 21:49.52 | ksk | !based on debian |
| 21:49.52 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 21:49.58 | gpsych | Indeed. |
| 21:49.58 | kreyren | ksk: backup means system with GUI where i can watch netflix and chroot in |
| 21:50.03 | ksk | kreyren: pardon? :D |
| 21:50.10 | kreyren | eh? o.o |
| 21:50.22 | *** part/#debian gpsych (~gpsych@74.116.187.224) |
| 21:50.32 | kreyren | (that was my question about sources.list sanity..) |
| 21:50.37 | ksk | I was not aware of you asking a question - or me answering it :D |
| 21:50.39 | ksk | ah okay. |
| 21:51.04 | kreyren | i was asking it before ussie but i was trying to help him :D |
| 21:51.14 | ksk | !tell kreyren about stretch sources list |
| 21:52.02 | ussie | https://pastebin.com/KbHYBu0A |
| 21:52.07 | ksk | Im not a Linux desktop user, so I have limited experience in that field. Id recommend going with stable - and maybe cherry picking some stuff you want from upstream |
| 21:52.18 | kreyren | ksk: current sources.list http://ix.io/1C7D |
| 21:52.18 | kreyren | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.25 | kreyren | ah nwm |
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| 21:52.36 | ksk | kreyren: are you at the point already, where stable does not fit your needs because of old software? |
| 21:52.54 | ussie | there is the problem - pastebin - I am open for every solution, but I have to use those modems as they are configured by default |
| 21:53.02 | ksk | ah you need software version XY. there might be no way to archieve that in a "debian way" Im afraid |
| 21:53.06 | kreyren | ksk: on ubuntu atm didn't check stable if it has 1.32.0 and dunno about it's security |
| 21:53.25 | kreyren | ksk: since i'm used to build custom kernel and spent months to make gentoo secure and optimized.. |
| 21:54.05 | ksk | kreyren: but havin a secure system is more like an ongoing task, and not done in a fixed amount of time. as things get patched - and so you need to then patch yourself if you dont have an OS that takes care of everything |
| 21:54.28 | greycat | If all you want is to toy around with rustc 1.32 and not actually USE it for anything real, you can install testing in a chroot and do your playing there. Or, you can bite the bullet and run buster full-time, and simply accept that whatever you build won't be usable by anyone else until buster releases, probably in 4-6 months. |
| 21:55.08 | kreyren | ussie: why do all devices have same iP? |
| 21:55.18 | ksk | ussie: I have a tendency to dislike things that start with "dont ask why I do that" :> |
| 21:55.31 | greycat | Again: |
| 21:55.32 | ussie | kreyren - because it is default, factory setting, and there is no option to change it |
| 21:55.33 | greycat | ,v rustc |
| 21:55.34 | judd | Package: rustc on amd64 -- stretch: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1~deb9u4; buster: 1.32.0+dfsg1-1; sid: 1.32.0+dfsg1-1 |
| 21:55.44 | kreyren | greycat: my sid was breaking everyday is is any better on testing? |
| 21:56.07 | kreyren | judd: ty |
| 21:56.21 | ksk | ussie: I think you mentioned network namespaces earlier? I think this (or full virtualisation for every modem) might be the only possible way to do this |
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| 21:57.18 | jcb2016 | im trying to register on the fourms but the captcha is really hard. any ideas? |
| 21:57.29 | kreyren | jcb2016: don't be a robot |
| 21:57.41 | ussie | ksk, so there is no option for iptables forwarding or nic bridges? |
| 21:58.08 | ksk | ussie: what are you doing with these things anyway? like they are usb-modems for example, and you need to make connections via them? |
| 21:58.09 | greycat | what forums? |
| 21:58.20 | kreyren | jcb2016: there is a generated audio if you can't read the capha usually afaik |
| 21:58.24 | ksk | I did not acutally ever try to put one IP to different devices on linux.. |
| 21:58.46 | ussie | ksk, yes. Server takes request (URL/modem) and proxies connections |
| 21:58.51 | kreyren | is https://deb.debian.org/debian/ == https://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian ? |
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| 21:59.38 | kreyren | assuming that https://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian is faster then deb.debian.. |
| 21:59.38 | ksk | iirc deb. was a geo-location thingy, that would magicly give you the closest gateway? not sure.. |
| 21:59.48 | ussie | ksk, server checks ip of device, bind ip and use it |
| 21:59.57 | kreyren | ksk: ah i see ty |
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| 22:00.11 | ksk | !tell kreyren about deb.debian.org |
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| 22:00.40 | ussie | i can't use namespaces because devices inside are unreachable from outside |
| 22:01.23 | ussie | i know it is possible to bridge it |
| 22:01.30 | ksk | you would need to put whatever needs to talk to them into the same namespace afaik. |
| 22:01.42 | ussie | i know because some company worked on it before me |
| 22:01.45 | ussie | and they did it |
| 22:02.07 | ussie | but i haven't the setup files, scrips, anything |
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| 22:02.32 | jcb2016 | thanks kreyren |
| 22:03.11 | ussie | ksk, wait, wait, wait, wait.... you are genuess |
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| 22:03.53 | ussie | let me trie |
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| 22:08.30 | ussie | ksk, nope I can't |
| 22:08.40 | ussie | I get the same IP in the namespace |
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| 22:16.18 | ayekat | muhaha: yes, I've got a better idea - read what I wrote before about setting the environment variables or using machinectl... |
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| 22:24.13 | kreyren | What is the URL for debian's keyserver? |
| 22:24.23 | kreyren | need to sign testing repo.. |
| 22:24.28 | ksk | I dont think there is one. |
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| 22:24.44 | ksk | and also there are no private keys avail ;) |
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| 22:25.03 | ksk | what are you doing know? you can either just import the keyid via any gpg-keyserver |
| 22:25.13 | ksk | or install the debian-keyring package (on systems like ubuntu iirc) |
| 22:25.22 | ksk | s/know/now/ |
| 22:25.40 | kreyren | trying to switch from ubuntu packages on debian's https://pastebin.com/raw/V0AU20Kf |
| 22:26.13 | kreyren | wanted to use `gpg --keyserver <url> --recv-keys keyA keyB |
| 22:26.45 | OerHeks | the frankendebian factoid applies to your question |
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| 22:27.08 | kreyren | not franken just switching from ubuntu on debian |
| 22:27.19 | kreyren | ubuntu's packages will be removed |
| 22:27.44 | kreyren | keyring.debian.org seems to be a thing |
| 22:27.50 | ksk | apt can not handle an in-place os exchange last time I checkd. |
| 22:28.05 | ksk | see the description of the package debian-keyring to get the real thing. |
| 22:28.10 | kreyren | ksk: performed it before with no issues iirc o.o |
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| 22:28.37 | ksk | kreyren: just mixing packages from distris you mean? nevermind then. |
| 22:29.00 | oneforall2 | hey with grub if you update a kernel do you still have to reboot? |
| 22:29.25 | jmcnaught | kreyren: you should just do a fresh install of debian, trying to do a live migration like that is unsupported, untested, and will likely be more work and headaches |
| 22:29.29 | kreyren | ksk: no replacing them with debian's |
| 22:29.57 | kreyren | jmcnaught: noted, can you provide info to fix current issue? should be painless after iirc |
| 22:30.05 | OerHeks | oneforall2, yes, to get the fresh kernel running |
| 22:30.06 | ksk | oneforall2: grub has kind of nothing to do with a running system. so yes, to run a updated version of the kernel you need to reboot. |
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| 22:31.16 | kreyren | oneforall2: Live patch of kernel is also a thing, but i never made it work |
| 22:31.26 | kreyren | well so far not.. |
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| 22:32.01 | jmcnaught | kreyren: debian users have the required keys installed a package by the installer, which is probably the only advice you'll get here |
| 22:32.42 | kreyren | meh.. fine |
| 22:34.04 | Barnbo | hello, can you help please? I am getting this error when I try to reinstall grub2; https://paste.debian.net/plain/1070206 |
| 22:34.04 | ksk | kreyren: I stated various solutions to your problem. use any keyserver (they are inter-connected, really). or just install the package debian-keyring on ubuntu.. |
| 22:34.16 | Barnbo | I talked to petn-randall today about it, but we couldn't find a solution |
| 22:34.30 | ksk | (debian-keyring is an ubuntu-package, also.) |
| 22:34.58 | kreyren | ksk: there is no debian-keyring on ubuntu, downloading it from the repo |
| 22:35.30 | ksk | for xenial, there is. |
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| 22:37.13 | kreyren | ksk: got it how do i use it? `debian-keyring` is not calleble |
| 22:38.06 | OerHeks | sure there is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-keyring |
| 22:38.30 | OerHeks | oops, i should not help wrecking ubuntu and debian |
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| 22:39.44 | kreyren | used `rsync -az --progress keyring.debian.org::keyrings/keyrings/ .` which didn't work based on https://wiki.debian.org/DebianKeyring#Obtaining_Keys |
| 22:40.06 | kreyren | nwm i do netinstall i dont have anything needed on base system anyway o.o |
| 22:40.16 | ksk | you should really stahp. sorry, not going to help you either :o |
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| 22:41.15 | ksk | netinstall sounds reasonable ;) |
| 22:41.32 | ksk | but in theory you can install debian from any running linux of course. |
| 22:41.40 | JC_SoCal | it took me a minute to realize i could ssh into my host even though this error is present -- not sure how to fix it https://imgur.com/a/esj8QHa |
| 22:42.41 | kreyren | ksk: meh netinstall is going to be probably faster then doing installation on chroot o.o |
| 22:42.51 | BCMM | JC_SoCal: are you actually having a problem with the keyboard backlight? or just bothered by the error message? |
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| 22:43.08 | ksk | kreyren: it will be easier, thats granted. |
| 22:43.21 | JC_SoCal | @BCMM i'm not bothered by the error message -- but the screen halts there =) |
| 22:43.28 | BCMM | ah, right |
| 22:43.43 | kreyren | ksk: chroot is faster? info? |
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| 22:44.22 | JC_SoCal | @BCMM I can shift to another tty -- so i'm good with either finding a way to supress that message or fix the actual issue, I do not care about the keyboard backlight itself |
| 22:44.25 | BCMM | JC_SoCal: are you booting with the "quiet" parameter? i suspect the keyboard backlight might not be the issue that's making boot hang |
| 22:44.37 | kreyren | or nah.. i need to replace ubuntu with debian anyway |
| 22:44.39 | JC_SoCal | @BCMM yes i am |
| 22:44.43 | jmcnaught | JC_SoCal: that error might be unrelated to the problem you're having, but there are probably clues in the logs or journal |
| 22:45.03 | JC_SoCal | @jmcnaught which log would you recommend searching first? |
| 22:45.08 | BCMM | JC_SoCal: try taking quiet off, and see if you get a more interesting message. or check dmesg, or journalctl. |
| 22:45.20 | jmcnaught | ^ |
| 22:45.35 | JC_SoCal | awesome thanks BCMM and jmcnaught |
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| 22:47.08 | jmcnaught | JC_SoCal: you can make a paste of your logs with "journalctl -b | nc termbin.com 9999" then others might help you look for clues |
| 22:47.14 | ksk | kreyren: doing the chroot + debootstrap way you will not have to deal with the debia installer, but do everything on your own - really depends on you then which one is faster ;) |
| 22:47.39 | ksk | the installer is fine, just use it. |
| 22:47.59 | JC_SoCal | jmcnaught: very cool, I think I found it though =D |
| 22:48.24 | JC_SoCal | i never knew about journalctl |
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| 22:54.58 | Epx998 | How can I find a dist tag for debian? I need it to update someones script that uses rpm to make packages for all our distros |
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| 22:57.40 | BCMM | what's a "dist tag"? |
| 22:58.07 | areyouloco | Epx998: exacly? a distro codename? |
| 22:58.44 | Epx998 | well the version |
| 22:59.01 | Epx998 | number, but maybe i can do lsb_release and toss it in to a case |
| 22:59.02 | BCMM | Epx998: are you asking how to tell what version of debian is installed on a system? |
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| 22:59.29 | areyouloco | lsb_release -r |
| 22:59.44 | Epx998 | lsb_release -r -s is what I have |
| 23:00.15 | BCMM | technically i think /etc/os-release is more likely to be present |
| 23:00.54 | Epx998 | The .deb and .rpm's are built on a system that has lsb_release |
| 23:01.05 | BCMM | (since it's part of base-files, whereas lsb-release is basically optional) |
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| 23:11.35 | oneforall2 | grub when you do a kernel upgrade is there maybe some setting it has that auto reboots and you don't have to |
| 23:13.40 | jcb2016 | hi all. trying to register on the forums. i get this now. "The field "antispam1" must be compeleted. i don't see a line for antispam1. any ideas? |
| 23:16.22 | OerHeks | jcb2016, maybe an ad-blocker issue? |
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| 23:17.36 | jcb2016 | OerHeks: i don't have any spam filters |
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| 23:19.16 | jcb2016 | rotflmao |
| 23:19.31 | jcb2016 | OerHeks: i didn't check no under the antispam1 field o_O |
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| 23:20.08 | OerHeks | :-) |
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