IRC log for #debian on 20190227

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00:59.23agiohi, does anyone know whats happening with iptables in buster? will iptables command be gone and replaced with nftables?
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02:08.47flingWhere is rc.local on buster?
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02:13.15rwpfling, The question is really, How to enable rc.local with a systemd init.  Search for that and you will find your answer.
02:15.24flingrwp: enabled!
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02:40.47DeihmosIs there an app that can backup from the desktop and initiate a restore from the desktop
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02:44.57KNERDDeihmos: https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecovery
02:45.12agiorsync ?
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02:46.14DeihmosLooked at some of those. The best I have used is clonezilla but you have to boot from the usb stick
02:46.53agioah, you want to image your disk?
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02:47.46KNERDWhy is it on the likes of CentOS I can type in "cd partialFolderName*" and get moved into that directory, but when I try it on  Debian,  I get "too many arguments"?
02:48.48agioKNERD: can you provide the output of this command?
02:49.01agioecho partialFolderName*
02:49.07dvsKNERD, because "partialFolderName*" expands to all available files on the command line.
02:50.49KNERDBasically what this forum thread dicusses  https://askubuntu.com/questions/905832/ubuntu-17-04-bash-cd-too-many-arguments
02:51.13KNERD-bash: cd: too many arguments
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02:53.03agioif you pasted the output of the command I gave you - you would see the cause of the problem
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02:53.23agiobasically - as dvs expplained
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02:53.59agiothe glob pattern is matching multiple files - which the shell passes as args to cd
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02:54.53jcb2016hi all. has anyone come here from archlinux? im trying to see what there experience was and why debian is better then arch. i will be getting a new computer and need to know which distro to install
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02:58.10KNERDagio: i dont see the cause. it just echoed the whole directory name
02:58.54agiocan you post the output please?
03:01.04KNERD<PROTECTED>
03:01.06KNERDfunctions
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03:02.19agiook, so then `cd funct*' should work
03:02.30KNERDokay
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03:02.39agiodoes that work for you?
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03:02.44KNERDI did t on the wrong machine
03:03.05KNERDit displays first the folder then a file name
03:03.15KNERDyou canno "cd" on a file
03:04.24agioas expected,  can you paste the output of `echo funct*' on that machine (where you're getting the problem)
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03:06.49KNERDi tried to do "cd  lin*" and it returned that too many options. WHen I do echo linu* it returns "linux-4.18.5 inux-4.18.5.tar.xy "
03:07.11agioright - so do you see the problem now?
03:07.57KNERDnope. As 1) You cannot cd a file, and 2) the directory is located first in which I want to change to
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03:08.47agiothere are a few errors in your assumptions
03:09.19agiomaybe a bit too many for me to type out explanations for
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03:10.35agiowhats happening is this: your lin* pattern is expanding to:
03:10.45KNERDi will try the forum suggestion
03:10.53agiolinux-4.18.5
03:10.57agio_and_
03:11.08agioinux-4.18.5.tar.xy
03:11.16agiothats 2 arguments
03:11.18hwweileri've added firmware-ralink_20190114-1_all.deb to the firmware folder of my liveusb, why won't the installer pick it up/find it
03:11.37hwweilerdpkg is not available so i can't install it manually either
03:11.37dpkghwweiler: no idea
03:12.09agiohwweiler: maybe the firmware-ralink...  package has dependecies
03:12.17agiodependencies
03:13.25hwweileroh, adding them would to the trick i suppose?
03:13.32agioyes
03:13.53agioIF that's that problem
03:14.58agiohwweiler: sometimes you need this package:
03:15.01agiofirmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-4_all.deb
03:15.21agioin addition to the vendor specific firmware deb archive
03:15.46hwweilerfeels like im going down the rabbit hole
03:16.10agioyou are - it
03:16.18agioits called linux
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03:17.28agioyou should be able to tell if that firmware-ralink_20190114-1_all.deb depends on the firmware-misc package
03:17.31hwweilerhttps://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-misc-nonfree seems to have suggestions of additional depenencies..
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03:17.48agioare you on buster?
03:18.09hwweileryes, testing
03:19.03agiodo you have aptitude installed?
03:19.38hwweilerim trying to install the base system.. i think this livecd is garbage, ill go for the dvd with kernel modules etc
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03:21.27hwweilerdebian-testing-amd64-DVD-1.iso +firmware vs debian-testing-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
03:23.19dvs!firmware iso
03:23.19dpkgUnofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>.
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03:26.31hwweilerdpkg: if the netinstall has the needed firmware so I can actually do a "net" install its better than dowloading the whole dvd xD
03:26.31dpkgYou are person #1 to send an unparseable request, hwweiler
03:26.57hwweilerdvs: talking to a bot here.. haha
03:27.06dvswas amused!
03:27.22agiohwweiler: yes, the ralink firmware package does depend on the firmware-misc package:
03:27.26agiosee here:
03:27.26dvsbut yeah, I'd use the firmware iso
03:27.27agiohttps://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-ralink
03:27.33KNERDagio: maybe a bug or incorrectly configured BASH?  Accoring the the BASH manual for "cd"  - " Any additional arguments following directory are ignored. "
03:27.40KNERDhttps://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bash.html#index-cd
03:27.55agioKNERD: ah good find - then thats weird
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03:28.47hwweileragio: yeah, i added the missing files to the liveusb once I was made aware of the dep., didn't help
03:29.20agioKNERD: unless bash is considering both args as a single string - due to the fact glob expansion is done after word splitting
03:29.38hwweilertesting live also doesnt like passive eth adapters, usb-to-eth ... so
03:30.04agiohwweiler: you can just finish the install, then load the firmware yourself
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03:31.15KNERDagio: I think if that was the case, then I feel it a different result would be returned as that 'singlestring'not found' would be the result.
03:31.23agioI think all you need to do is `dpkg --install <firmware-misc...deb>' then reboot
03:32.02agioKNERD: agreed, its just best to pass bash a good glob - I guess
03:32.30KNERDyeah , thanks. or file a bug report :-)
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03:34.10agioKNERD: I find zsh better than bash for that kind of thing because I can do:
03:34.18agiocd **/foo*<TAB>
03:34.42agioand zsh will interactively expand the glob BEFORE I hit <ENTER>
03:35.00KNERDyeah, I am doing that Linux from Scratch and they want you to use BASH
03:35.00agioso I can see if the glob expanded to many files
03:35.19agiowhat is "linux from scratch" ?
03:36.17KNERDit's a site dedicated to teaching people how ot build their own Linux distro from scratch  http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
03:36.45agioawesome
03:37.21KNERDI want to bring back a distro Microsoft bought out then shut down
03:38.00KNERDbecause it souned too much like Windows
03:38.27agiocool :)
03:38.43KNERDMaybe they will pay me 16 millions also to go away
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03:44.03dvschanges his name to "Cormana"
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04:35.51paris_0Hi folks, I don't know, but it will be feasible to install openoffice on debian?
04:36.23penpatdeparis_0: i see no reason why it would not be feasible
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04:38.17paris_0I went to the Synaptic Package Manager, but it wasn't so . . .
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04:43.18aaroit's libreoffice now
04:45.44SerajewelKSyeah.  it hasn't been openoffice for years.
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05:04.18de-factoHey, can i run dpkg-reconfigure without _any_ frontend in a script? i want to preseed the answers with debconf-{get,set}-selections and want dpkg-reconfigure to configure my package with those defaults...
05:05.27penpatdeadds karma to the question, without having an answer
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05:09.01jmcnaughtde-facto: there's a noninteractive frontend, they're all described in debconf(7)
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05:31.40de-factoyou mean like after "cat conf | debconf-set-selections" i just run "DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive dpkg-reconfigure  <package>"?
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05:49.54spacebisonE: Release file for http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch-updates/InRelease is expired (invalid since 15h 17min 5s). Updates for this repository will not be applied.
05:51.37spacebisonJust ran apt-get update. Anything I can do about this?
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05:54.03rwpspacebison, Is your system clock correct?  I just did an update and I am not getting an expired certificate.
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05:59.14spacebisonYep it's correct. It seems someone else had this problem earlier too. https://pastebin.com/
05:59.34spacebisonhttps://pastebin.com/h5ebKQm3
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06:00.26spacebisonI ran apt-get update again and no errors this time.
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06:01.41SerajewelKSspacebison: i have been hitting that same error for about six hours
06:01.53SerajewelKSi'm guessing that the RR DNS is giving me a bad mirror
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06:03.41SerajewelKSthe mirror i'm hitting is ftp-nyc.osuosl.org over IPv6
06:04.41SerajewelKSon those InRelease files, gpg -v says "0040f94d11d0039505328a90b2ff48968db873e9e7967307631bf40ef5679275       32 non-free/source/Sources.xz
06:04.44SerajewelKSgpg: Signature made Tue 26 Feb 2019 09:22:28 PM EST"
06:04.52SerajewelKS(mispaste)  which i'm guessing is too old?
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06:11.01spacebisonThat could very well be it.
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06:24.22KOLANICHhello everybody
06:24.47KOLANICHI have some questions about packages.
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06:25.35KOLANICH1. why there is no good package for tcl, like ActiveTcl?
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06:26.37KOLANICH2. Why does dh always clean? Can it be disabled?
06:27.00KOLANICH3. How can I prevent dh from generating a debug package?
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06:40.49blueingressHi, I  have problem opening gparted, here is the error messages: gparted , Unit tmp.mount does not exist, proceeding anyway. No protocol specified...(gpartedbin:30045): Gtk-WARNING **: 14:38:13.079: cannot open display: :0
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06:42.34civillianblueingress: how are you starting gparted
06:43.31blueingresscivillian, in terminal with root user
06:43.56civillianblueingress: try sudo gparted as yourself not root
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06:45.42diogenes_blueingress, afaik the command should be: gparted-pkexec
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06:47.07blueingresscivillian, start by myself with sudo , and the same error message.
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06:48.00civillianblueingress: you are running an X terminal, right?
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06:48.10blueingressdiogenes_, sudo: gparted-pkexec: command not found
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06:48.59CarlFKhow can I see what versions of grub are in stable, testing, unstable?
06:49.29CarlFKstable has something like 2.02-beta 3 - looking for 2.02 (released)
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06:50.46CarlFKhttps://packages.debian.org/buster/grub-common (2.02+dfsg1-11)  what does dfsg mean?
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06:52.23penpatdeCarlFK: debian free software guideline, i think
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06:53.22CarlFKpenpatde: huh.  um.. ok.
06:53.32penpatde,v grub-common
06:53.34juddPackage: grub-common on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.99-27+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 1.99-27+deb7u3; jessie: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1; sid: 2.02+dfsg1-10; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-11
06:53.43blueingresscivillian, standard gnome , debain buster
06:55.12penpatde!dfsg
06:55.12dpkgDFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines .  For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses
06:55.19penpatdeCarlFK: ^
06:56.22civillianblueingress: what does 'echo $DISPLAY' say?
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06:57.42CarlFKpenpatde: thanks - looks like sid and buster are  2.02 not beta any more
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07:01.06blueingresscivillian, :0
07:01.42blueingresscivillian, :0 in bash, but I did it from fish.
07:02.23blueingressand I start bash from fish, the same error
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08:07.55jellyCarlFK: it means the source tarball that is used to biuld binary packages from has been changed (usually, some non-essential non-free bits removed) to make it 100% compliant with DFSG
08:08.41CarlFKjelly: thanks
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08:13.43jellyreading the package changelog it's due to
08:14.07jellyjudd: bug 745409
08:14.08juddBug http://bugs.debian.org/745409 in grub2 (closed, moreinfo): «[grub2] Non free RFC»; severity: important; opened: 2014-04-21; last modified: 2018-02-18.
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08:20.09penpatdeonly admins can modify factoids in dpkg, right?
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08:24.35penpatdemy suggestion for the DFSG factoid is: "The Debian Free Software Guidelines required changes of the source package for compliance. The guidelines are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines and a full list of DFSG-compatible licenses can be found there: http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses"
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08:26.41fatalerr0rhello all
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08:26.52bruhbruhfatalerr0r: hello!
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08:28.58penpatdebtw - debian needs an url shortening service!
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08:31.02fatalerr0rI've set up a machine with two interfaces as a temporary router, but can't ssh to it from the wan side. Ssh server listens on 0.0.0.0:22, but the port doesn't seem to be open? It works ok from the lan side. What am I missing?
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08:33.17penpatdefowarding maybe. how did you set it up?
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08:34.47jellypenpatde: most factoids are open for editing but that would not be an appropriate change
08:35.19penpatdejelly: ah, hmmm. can you elaborate why?
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08:36.22jellythe factoid explains what dfsg is.  How it's sometimes used for some source tarball modifications is of secondary importance
08:37.00penpatdei see now, thanks
08:37.11jellys/it/the string "+dfsg"/
08:37.18penpatdeyes
08:38.34penpatdefatalerr0r: in most cases you need some NAT magic and your kernel needs to have forwarding enabled
08:39.27penpatdethe option is in /etc/sysctl.conf and often forgotten
08:40.01penpatdeyou can set it manually via /proc aswell, when i remember right
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08:41.45fatalerr0rI have a web server and open ssh running on this machine. Both (all) ports seems to be filtered by something on the wan interface but no iptables are set up
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08:42.22penpatdei think you dont understand what i tried to explain
08:42.37jellyfatalerr0r: network equipment that sits between the WAN iface and internet connection might be blocking inbound traffic
08:42.56penpatdebut he speaks of a router that he sets up so nothing should be inbetween?
08:43.10fatalerr0rexactly
08:43.22jellyfatalerr0r: pastebin the output of "ip a" and "iptables-save"
08:43.37jellywhich debian release is this?
08:43.52jelly!paste
08:43.53dpkgDo not paste more than 2 lines to this channel.  Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net or https://0bin.net/ | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!  Cannot cut and paste?  Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
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08:44.57jelly(there's no need for NAT or forwarding to merely access services listening on all local addresses; that's only needed for actual routing)
08:46.26jimhi... how can I find my compose key?
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08:47.26diogenes_jim, in keyboard settings?
08:48.18fatalerr0rhttps://pastebin.com/9gX8GMte
08:48.26penpatdehaha, jim
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08:49.15penpatdejim: what do you intend to compose?
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08:50.26jimI'm trying to help someone with a Y with a bar over it, &ymacr
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08:50.53penpatdeoh, serious business. sorry
08:51.06jellyfatalerr0r: that "ip a" seems to be missing some lines
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08:51.49diogenes_jim, the best way to determine it is by installing florence or onboard virtual keyboard and there you could see all the characters
08:52.27jellyjim: I have no idea how to find the current setting or if there's any at all, but you can _set_ it with setxkbmap -option compose:...
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08:54.31jellyjim: man xkeyboard-config lists possible settings.  Note that invocations of  setxkbmap -option are additive.
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08:54.42fatalerr0rhttps://pastebin.com/k7yy0BRG
08:54.45fatalerr0rsorry
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08:57.54jellyfatalerr0r: use something like "tcpdump -ni enp8s2 port 22" to see if traffic from outside arrives at that machine at all
08:58.01jimjelly, thanks, I'll look at that
08:59.45jellyfatalerr0r: fwiw, I get icmp replies from both ipv4 and ipv6 but establishing a tcp connection to port 22 seems not to work
09:02.14jellyfatalerr0r: where do default routes point to ("ip r", "ip -6 r")?  that network element may be blocking some inbound traffic
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09:17.00kreyrenany way to get rid of those top bars on windows on gnome? https://i.imgur.com/FLFBPuv.png expected usable DE (KDE, LXQT, XFCE not an option)
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09:17.45kreyren* WM not an option since it's backup OS and i dont want to spent time customizing it >.>
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09:18.31penpatdecustom mate desktop is awesome for me
09:18.41penpatdecustom->default
09:19.47penpatdei only need to disable the powersaving, enhance the number of workplaces and ready to go
09:19.58kreyrenafaik it has same issue
09:20.08kreyrenand custom is not an option :/
09:20.17penpatdeyou can right click and select delete bar
09:20.31kreyrenon MATE ?
09:20.33penpatdeyes
09:20.37kreyreno.o
09:20.40kreyrenapting
09:20.44penpatdehehe
09:22.48neoclustHello,  i am trying to build my own kernel ( with my own config ), if i understand correctly i need to modify debian/config/defines . But in https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/ch-versions.html#s-abi-maintenance  it does not explain
09:23.15neoclusthow do i modify this file ? ( because if i don't, i  can't build my kernel and obtain: ABI is not completely versioned!  Refusing to continue. )
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09:25.32petn-randallneoclust: You likely want to follow https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/ch-common-tasks.html#s-common-building or the chapter after that.
09:25.49petn-randallThe ABI is only relevant if you patch the kernel.
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09:26.51neoclustpetn-randall: i only changed the config file ( debian/config/amd64/config ), i recreated the tarball and restarted the build
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09:29.36perseiverI want to control traffic for ethernet interface eth0 to 81 kbits/sec in Debian. How to do that?  I have got link for tc (Traffic Control) command.  But its too complex to understand and use it as per my requirement.  Have anyone experience with 'tc' command?
09:30.05petn-randallneoclust: That file is only relevant if you want to build kernels for the Debian repository. It's much easier if you follow the instructions in the link.
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09:35.03rdzhey all. 'apt-get update' prints some new lines on  one host that do not appear on other hosts, like: "Building old list of packages..."
09:35.15rdzhow can that be controlled?
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09:36.07kreyrenpenpatde: got Mate, is it supposed to be forked XFCE? o.o
09:38.11penpatdemate is a continued gnome 2
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09:38.33kreyrenpanpatde: installed mate-desktop-environment and it's xfce xD
09:38.39kreyrenwhat is the package for gnome?
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09:38.53penpatdexfce was forked off of gnome 2 some time ago
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09:39.17kreyrennoted
09:39.52penpatdegnome2 is no longer in the repo
09:40.51kreyrenhm o.o suggestion?
09:40.55kreyrengrab it from ubuntu?
09:41.33penpatdegnome3 you can grab from debian repos just not version 2. and i doubt hard ubuntu provides it cause its not in development since quite a while
09:41.53kreyreni see, so it's not an option for me probably
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09:42.32penpatdemate _is_ gnome2 with many small fixes and a bit of polishing up
09:43.09penpatdeyou really want to skip it because a fork (xfce) looks similar?
09:43.36kreyrenit's XFCE with MATE skin on my end.. https://i.imgur.com/iuzWo40.png
09:44.08kreyreni dont want to use XFCE since it's not user-friendly enough OOTB
09:44.19penpatdei think you are confused or i am or we both
09:44.26kreyreneh?
09:44.30petn-randallrdz: If you show us the actual output it would help a lot. https://paste.debian.net
09:44.51rdzpetn-randall, sure
09:44.55penpatdenot mate was forked of xfce. it was the other way around
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09:45.28petn-randallxfce is not a fork of mate or gnome.
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09:45.46penpatdepetn-randall: it uses the gnome toolkit
09:45.57rdzpetn-randall, https://paste.debian.net/1070395/
09:45.58kreyrenpenpatde: ah noted
09:45.59Ticho_why do people keep using toolbars on top and bottom on widescreens, where vertical space is at a premium? use the sides, luke!
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09:46.30penpatdeTicho_: nice tip :)
09:46.47rdzpetn-randall, on most system the output looks like this, though: https://paste.debian.net/1070396/
09:47.24petn-randallpenpatde: That's not what a fork is, though. If it uses libraries, it's just called that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(software_development)
09:48.21petn-randallrdz: Well, you're comparing "apt" with "apt-get". They're not the same tools.
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09:53.29rdzpetn-randall, oops
09:53.31rdzmy mistake..
09:54.11rdzpetn-randall, that is how it normally looks like: https://paste.debian.net/1070398/
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09:58.25petn-randallrdz: I'm assuming that is some tool like apt-listbugs that is generating the output.
09:59.14penpatdei learned from online people that xfce is a fork of gnome 2. maybe it is a mistake to pass knowledge along that was gained this way
10:00.34petn-randallpenpatde: Yes, a "fork" means that development was branched off and follows another direction. This is not the case. Both use the GTK engine, which is part of the DE.
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10:00.59penpatdeits about a project, the actual code is secondary
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10:01.38petn-randallpenpatde: They're use the same libraries, just like GIMP and Gnome use GTK. Or like "apt", "apt-get" and "aptitude" all use the libapt library.
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10:01.48petn-randalls/use/using/
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10:02.37penpatdea fork is mainly a process where a part of the group of developers leave the existing project to try to do things different
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10:03.22penpatdethe codebase can be very different and its still a fork
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10:04.14penpatdebut i shut up now before i get banned again
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10:09.45petn-randallpenpatde: It's not. No code was forked. Read up on the link I gave you. If at all, xfce is a fork of CDE.
10:10.05petn-randallpenpatde: FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfce#Features
10:10.17penpatdepetn-randall: i understand your reasoning but i doubt you understand mine
10:10.23petn-randall"Like GNOME, Xfce is based on the GTK toolkit, but it is not a GNOME fork."
10:10.35penpatdewe can stop. its alright
10:10.57petn-randallpenpatde: Xfce developers never left the gnome project. They didn't work on gnome to start with.
10:11.28penpatdepetn-randall: that feels a bit pedantic and this day is too nice to deal with pedantic people
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10:12.06penpatdehave some fun
10:12.19petn-randallshrugs.
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10:13.49petn-randallThis channel is there for fine Debian folks to get educated. Not that I'm particularly enthusiastic about this topic, but I can't just leave false statements stand as other might pick it up, too.
10:14.00penpatdefine debian folk where i do not belong?
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10:15.08penpatdei said this day is too nice to deal with people who dont care to understand _my_ reasoning. people who value text data more than the people who create them
10:15.21petn-randallpenpatde: I never said that. You're free to ask for and give support in here. Just take into account that people might correct you. That's part of this channel.
10:15.24penpatdeno.
10:15.35penpatdedont hilight me anymore. please.
10:15.59penpatdei can be on this channel just fine
10:16.13petn-randallI understand your reasoning, it's just that nobody uses "fork" the way you use it, and that's misleading.
10:16.18penpatdeits not only about fine operators and developers. its also about common users
10:16.48penpatdecommon people. simpled minded folks.
10:17.04penpatde"fine debian folks"
10:17.07penpatdemy goodness.
10:17.20penpatdehow rude
10:17.38petn-randallpenpatde: Feel free to bring it up in #debian-ops if you feel mistreated.
10:17.48penpatdeto ruin my day?
10:17.53penpatdeis that what you are after?
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10:18.13petn-randallpenpatde: I included you when I meant "fine Debian folks".
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10:18.40petn-randall!next
10:18.40dpkgAnother happy customer leaves the building.
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10:23.00BlastuRhey! having some issues installing debian on my laptop. i run the network installer, everything is fine and GRUB installs fine (grub-efi). I'm asked to eject my USB stick and reboot, that also works. Boots fine into the new system. However! Once I reboot the system again (after booting into it the first tiem), it won't boot again. The bios just says there's no bootable system on the HDD. If I again boot with
10:23.02BlastuRthe USB stick and enter rescue mode, I see that my rootfs seems OK and also my EFI /boot partition is populated with files. Any ideas?
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10:23.54petn-randallBlastuR: I'd double check the EFI setup that you're not trying to boot in legacy mode. That means setting "UEFI only" and disabling CSM.
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10:24.12BlastuRFYI, i've tried both Debian 9 and the new buster alpha 4. same result
10:24.23areyoulocoBlastuR: also check Boot Secure option.
10:24.23petn-randallYour issue seems to match my assumption at least.
10:24.42areyoulocoin UEFI
10:24.49BlastuROk, i'll try looking at the bios. I may have disabled secure boot because I used to run Archlinux on this laptop before
10:25.19petn-randallBlastuR: Right, secure boot should be disabled, as it's not supported.
10:25.41BlastuRis there a way to enter diagnostics mode from the debian installer iso menu? i can't seem to figure out how to find the correct keyboard shortcut on my laptop
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10:28.18BlastuRokay, secure boot is disabled and there's no legacy boot mode in my bios
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10:28.46BlastuRi didn't change the bios since i used archlinux on this, it was also using uefi boot .. but with reFind instead of GRUB
10:29.16BlastuRim a little confused why it is able to boot the first boot though?
10:29.25BlastuRwill debian do something to the boot sequence upon its first boot?
10:30.12SerajewelKSunlikely
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10:35.12BlastuRhm. If I go into the debian rescue mode and let it run "grub-install /dev/sda" (so it install to the MBR), I'm able to boot into the system once more. But any subsequent boot fails again..?
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10:36.26SerajewelKSthat is very strange
10:36.34cheapieCould always try installing to the removable media path too.
10:36.43cheapieIIRC it's "--force-extra-removable" to do that.
10:37.05cheapieSome UEFI implementations are broken enough that that's the only way to make them boot properly.
10:37.16BlastuRcheapie: so i'd need the USB stick inserted to boot?
10:37.27cheapieNo.
10:38.17cheapieThere's a path that UEFI bootable removable media has its boot files located in, and adding that option forces them to be installed to the same location on your hard drive as well.
10:38.22BlastuRthere's a menu in the rescue mode that says "Force grub installation to the EFI removable media path", i'll try that then.
10:38.30cheapieYep, that's that option.
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10:42.24BlastuRcheapie: hurray! that did it, now i'm able to boot multiple times without usb inserted
10:42.47cheapieBroken UEFI implementations are fun, aren't they? :P
10:43.21BlastuRthis laptop is quite old (i believe 2011-ish), so i'm not surprised if it has quirks with uefi
10:44.02cheapieWhat that effectively did, by the way, was set up your hard drive such that the computer's firmware boots from it as if it was some type of external/removable drive.
10:44.33BlastuRi see
10:44.36cheapieThat means that the boot order might not be guaranteed, but it makes it boot even if the boot order in NVRAM gets mangled somehow.
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10:45.25BlastuRif i check "efibootmgr", debian is not in the list anymore...but hey, it works .)
10:45.31cheapieSo instead of "my records say I should boot from this device" you get "I have a removable device (actually the hard drive) plugged in, I should boot from that"
10:46.02cheapieYeah, efibootmgr won't list it since it's not actually being stored in the NVRAM any more.
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10:46.29BlastuRgotcha
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11:03.22rdzpetn-randall, thanks for your answer
11:05.20petn-randallrdz: Was it apt-listbugs?
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11:13.36rdzpetn-randall, no.. haven't found the reason yet
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11:18.19rdzpetn-randall, finally found it: you were right, it was a another installed utility generating those messages: daptup
11:18.32rdzhave to figure out why it was installed in the first place
11:20.38petn-randallrdz: Ah, great to now. Nice :)
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11:28.05klyshttps://paste.debian.net/1070406/
11:28.08klyssorting my files...
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11:57.00mrtntI noticed that some system accounts like www-data(created by apache2 package) or mail use /var/<username> as an home directory. Is there a practical purpose for this?
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12:01.03BCMMmrtnt: my guess is to allow you to put /home/ on a different filesystem without causing problems for daemons
12:02.03kskmrtnt: man hier; also I would think its a historical thing.
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12:02.53BCMMespecially if those daemons start before the /home/ directory is mounted, or are even needed in some way to mount /home/ (unusual home-on-network setups?)
12:03.10kskand yeah, daemons are normally not storing their corresponding dataset in /home - as this is kind of for "real users"
12:04.37tsgloveHello.  Question for the more knowledable
12:05.16tsglove<PROTECTED>
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12:06.10kskehm, no?
12:06.18tsgloveI did accomplish the "same group ownership"  with the    setguid g+s....     yet, how can I make all files placed in the directory have  774 as permission?
12:06.18kskjust set a corresponding umask.
12:06.33tsgloveumask on the user himself, right?
12:06.39kskgroup ownership and permissions are different things.
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12:06.43kskyes.
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12:06.50tsgloveAh. Ok.
12:06.58kskthe umask defines which permissions newly created files and direcoties et.
12:07.00ksk*get
12:07.22tsgloveWell, the user is one I created to receive sftp uploads.     I set his shell to   rssh   and chroot to   /var/sftp/   inside sshd_config
12:07.50tsgloveThe umask... would then go in his  rssh start-up script?
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12:09.05kskmhm not sure sorry. might be a thing that could be done via PAM.
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12:09.28tsgloveksk, thank you.  I'll search some more.
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12:10.21mrtntBCMM, ksk: ok, thanks! I have a script which queries data over SNMP and creates, updates, etc RRDtool databases. This script is executed using cron with regular intervals. There is a separate user for this script. Should I use /home as a base directory for this system user home directory? /var? /var/lib? From practicality point of view all three should work equally fine in this case.
12:10.55ksktsglove: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/393919/proper-way-to-set-the-umask-for-sftp-transactions this looks reasonable to me (editing /etc/ssh/sshd_config)
12:10.56shtrbDoes the thunderbolt issue with IOMMU has a debian mitigation ? ( https://www.itnews.com.au/news/thunderbolt-vulnerabilities-leave-computers-wide-open-519855 )
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12:12.06kskmrtnt: I would advise against /home, but it does not really matter and comes down to (your?) policy imho.
12:12.34ksklike, if your company normally puts it in /var - create a directory there.
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12:13.59ksktsglove: there also seems to be pam_umask ;)
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12:14.29tsgloveksk, I'm reading through the stackexchange post... I'll head over to pam_umask as soon as I am finished.  This looks good.  Thank you!
12:14.56mrtntksk: for me the /var looks also more appropriate because this is not an account for a person. It is a system account which simply runs certain scripts.
12:15.03kskpam_umask is mentioned at the bottom of the article ;) glad I could help.
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12:18.45tsgloveksk, I think modifying sshd_config is the way to go.   Going to test asap.   Thank you! w00t w00t!
12:19.20ksk!next
12:19.20dpkgAnother happy customer leaves the building.
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13:03.57sdisavonaI'm looking for a good guide about initramfs and hooks. Do you know any
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13:05.46petn-randallsdisavona: `man initramfs-tools` has a section about hooks. If you have a specific question, feel free to ask in here.
13:06.04sdisavonaI've read it, but I find it to be quite short.
13:06.48sdisavonaI want to add mdadm hook, how do I do it?
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13:07.33petn-randallsdisavona: What should that hook do?
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13:10.19sinhueHi guys. Looking for help creating sftp share on specific folder on debian. I'm using debian 9.5. I can sftp into remote machine but all I get i 'remote readdir ("/"): Permission denied.'
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13:11.47sdisavonaI need it to assemble my RAID according to what I've specified in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf, instead of doing it automatically.
13:13.53sdisavonaOn arch if I add mdadm_udev to HOOKS and rebuild initramfs, it works. I want to do its equivalent in debian.
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13:17.35Guiflehello, can you help me please in finding the page for downloading debian?
13:17.50GuifleI found one, but I am forwarded to an external page with bizarre tar.gz links
13:17.54Guiflewhere I need an iso
13:18.35sdisavonaDo I just have to copy "/usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/mdadm" in "/etc/initramfs-tools/hooks" and rebuild initramfs?
13:19.02petn-randallGuifle: it's on debian.org, top right corner is a direct link.
13:19.13sdisavonahttps://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/
13:20.25Guiflepetn-randall, hi, thank you, I found it but I see iso images only under cd/dvd install..and its size is 292M, is it the correct one? I will install with internet connection
13:20.33petn-randallsdisavona: Is there a reason you have to do it manually? mdadm normally sets up any raids according to the config in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf, assuming the UUIDs match.
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13:20.46sdisavonaIt's not.
13:21.15Guifleyes, I am on the page you mention, sdisavona
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13:21.57sdisavonaIf I launch 'mdadm --assemble --scan' it will do it accordingly to "/etc/mdadm/mdadm/conf", so I wanna try using mdadm hooks.
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13:22.14Guiflesdisavona, is it not correct? did you reply to me?
13:22.44sdisavona@Guifle Last reply was for petn-randall. For you, just pick up your architecture and download the iso.
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13:24.07sdisavonaamd64 is 64 bit for PC, the vast majority of AMD/Intel PC. Most people wanting a PC-oriented debian system for everyday will probably just need xfce iso: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/
13:24.51sdisavonaPersonally I've always used netinstall isos and configured my system handpicking packages by hand.
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13:32.20Guiflesdisavona, ah ok, thank you
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13:52.18rantGuifle: were you planning to use wifi to install?
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13:53.57rantGuifle: some wifi require nonfree firmware not in debians main repos and thus not included in the installer we have a nonfree firmware installer recommended if you plan to install over wifi
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13:55.01Guiflerant, yes
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13:55.23Guiflerant, yes, I know it from earlier installs
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13:56.37petn-randallsdisavona: `mdadm --assemble --scan` works on any headers from the raid elements, so if your config in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf is wrong, it will still work.
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13:57.33rantGuifle: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.8.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso
13:58.00rantGuifle: that is the latest 64bit netinstall with the non-free firmware included
13:58.17petn-randallsdisavona: You can run `mdadm --examine --scan` and compare it with the lines in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf.
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13:59.18Guiflerant, thank you!
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14:12.18GNUtoohi, I see that there is some links like /vmlinuz /vmlinuz.old /initrd.img /initrd.img.old, where are they created?
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14:12.55GNUtooI've looked in /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ and didn't find a script doing that
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14:15.20GNUtooI want to add a link like that: /dtb -> /usr/lib/linux-image-${version}
14:15.41GNUtooThis would allow to use syslinux config files with u-boot on ARM
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14:23.30mnsGNUtoo: if my memory serves me right, the /vmlinuz links come from the linux=image package
14:24.27greycatI think it's somehow related to the "do_symlink = yes" in /etc/kernel-img.conf
14:24.36greycatsorry, do_symlinks
14:25.11greycatSadly, that file refers me to a man page that I don't seem to have....
14:25.38mnsI don't have a debian system anymore, hence the "if my memory serves me right"
14:26.10greycatthere is https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/kernel-common/kernel-img.conf.5.en.html but no such page for stretch for some reason
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14:32.47jellyjudd: file kernel-img.conf.5.gz
14:32.51juddNo packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
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14:33.31jellyMine's in "kernel-common" but from stretch-backports
14:33.39greycat(and that page doesn't have do_symlinks on it, either)
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14:40.57AlexNagyIs there any Debian (or Linux-in-general) equivalent to mozbackup? I'm needing an easy way to sync my Thunderbird profile amongst computers and while mozbackup works on Windows, it apparently doesn't have a Linux port. Something that reads the mozbackup file would be ideal, next would be something I could use on both Debian and Windows as an alternative. Thanks. (:
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14:42.10petn-randallAlexNagy: What does mozbackup do exactly?
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14:43.22AlexNagyIt automatically copies account settings from Thunderbird (mail/news accounts, individual configurations, etc.), packages them into a single file, and allows you to restore when needed. It's like manually doing this via the Thunderbird forums thread on the subject but much quicker.
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14:43.37darxmurfis there a way to see the "mount" options used by thunar when browsing a smb:// address ?
14:43.39AlexNagyThe only thing it doesn't copy is filtering rules :'(
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14:44.20petn-randallAlexNagy: Can you just copy the thunderbird config dir with all it's files over? I know that works from Linux to Linux, haven't checked if Windows is any different.
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14:45.23AlexNagyIt can be done manually, trying to avoid doing that (I've done it in the past from Linux <-> Windows, mozbackup was nice and handy and also works for a host of other Mozilla products).
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14:47.29AlexNagyI wonder if mozbackup would work properly under WINE? *just thought of this*
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14:49.30petn-randallProbably not. If it's only zipping and unzipping a folder, do you really need a specific tool for it?
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14:50.30AlexNagyIt's nice and handy with a fancy gui. It makes my life easier. I don't have to search for all the appropriate directories. *clickclickdone*
14:50.52paris_0Hi folks, I have a question, each time when I start up a computer, I have to go to Sound Preferences and change in the Output from "Build-in Audio Analog Stereo to "V20 portable speakers(USB Powered). So there is a way to fix it, so I don't have to change each time I boot up my computer?
14:51.05AlexNagyThanks for the help, petn-randall (:
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15:07.43r3every hour, I get rsyslog messages from 'anacron', even though in my rsyslog.conf, I've added the line '*.*;cron,authpriv.none @[rsyslog server]'  ... is there a way to queit anacron in the same fashion?
15:07.58r3s/queit/quiet/
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15:13.57AlexNagypetn-randall, I just tried to open the .pcv that mozbackup makes and it was just a simple extract using the archive manager (Cinnamon desktop) overwriting the existing (and blank) profile information. Sorry to have bothered.
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15:20.36petn-randallAlexNagy: I assumed it was something like that. Glad it worked out for you!
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15:24.57AlexNagyThanks, I think I'm still going to look for another, universal tool to do this. I have also dedicated myself to learning Python so I may just write one myself one day. Who knows?!
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15:25.48Haohmaruthe future
15:26.38AlexNagyThe future will take care of itself. I can only concern myself with today.
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15:27.26Haohmaruhurry up then, today is running out
15:29.32greycatToday is infinite.  Is it today?  Yup.  24 hours from now, you can ask again, and it'll still be today.
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15:31.05Haohmaru<thatscheating.jpg>
15:31.06EdePopedesign on a restaurant: "tomorrow: all meals for free"
15:31.59HaohmaruEdePopede i've had collegues who literally wrote "this enquiry is for tomorrow"
15:32.09Haohmaruwomen
15:32.10AlexNagyand just like that, chat devolved into armchair philosophy
15:33.16AlexNagyand of course, it seems all my efforts are for naught at the moment. Network I'm currently connected to disallows imap connections, apparently.
15:33.35AlexNagybut the profiles are in place
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15:34.07JustASlackerwho the heck disables imap
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15:34.16petn-randallgreycat: That's an interesting excuse to stay away from work.
15:34.17AlexNagyshrugs
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15:36.48jellyJustASlacker: imaps lovers!
15:37.00JustASlackerstarttls is where its at
15:37.11jellynope
15:37.37jellyeverything old is new again.  Current recommendations are SSL-only ports again.
15:38.21jelly(SSL/TLS direct ones.  993 imaps, 995 pop3s, 465 smtps for submission)
15:38.35JustASlackerwhose recommendations
15:39.18jellyRFC8314
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15:42.03gordonfishQuestion; Why do the *SUMS files in https://mirrors.kernel.org/debian-cd/9.8.0/amd64/iso-dvd/ list 14 iso files where there are only 3?
15:42.47petn-randallgordonfish: The others can be generated with jigdo. They've been used so little in the past that it was decided not to mirror them.
15:42.55gordonfish(14 + 2 update files)
15:43.06gordonfishOh
15:43.12gordonfishWhat exactly is on them?
15:44.14petn-randallgordonfish: The entire Debian suite, so all ~52,000 packages from the repository.
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15:45.45gordonfishpetn-randall: Ah. I figured it was just ordinary stuff that's in the repo
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15:46.14gordonfishAnd that's a lot of packages, deee-aaam
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15:56.27r3I've looked in the anacron config, but can't make heads or tails of it.  'man anacron' isn't helpful, and I think it's fibbing about sending messages as 'cron' as I don't get cron messages in syslog, only the bloody anacron ones.
15:57.01r3I see that it is executed as 'anacron -dsq' - which - looking at the manpage - looks like it should be quiet with the -q (but that's only stderror) -d (controls forking, but mentions sending to syslog)
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15:58.01lowinHello. Where can I find dvd images for old debian versions? The mirrors in download page only seem to have 9.8
15:58.09greycat*sigh*
15:58.37greycatSomeone else can try to figure out how people think this crap and how to make them understand.  I'm apparently incapable of it.
15:59.12petn-randalllowin: What Debian version do you need?
15:59.25lowinpetn-randall, squeeze in particular
16:00.30petn-randalllowin: Is there a reason you want to install an unsupported Debian version?
16:01.03lowinpetn-randall, Nah I just wanted to go on a nostalgia trip, it was the first debian version I used back in the days ^^
16:01.40petn-randalllowin: https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/
16:01.53lowinawesome. thank you
16:02.06Haohmarufresh from the archeological museum
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16:07.13AlexNagyWoody was my first.
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16:09.58EdePopedehamm. and then i didn't get isdn running. don't ask why. lost in the tides of times.
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16:10.23EdePopedethis was dselect only back then?
16:11.11AlexNagyI believe so. >,<
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16:13.00EdePopede4 (*four*) CDs. not DVD. half of them containing the sources. wow.
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16:14.18EdePopedeoh wait. even half of it only. slink was 2+2. bought that disc set later too. just because.
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16:15.54AlexNagyI still haven't bought an 'official' disc set. I've spent so much on my own cds/dvds I probably could have bought several already. :thinking:
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16:16.47EdePopedebtw, if a shop mentions "recent stable" then this should definitely be 9.8 atm? i've seen some mention "9" or "recent" only, only one shop here i've seen with "14" and "9.8". one even has a set of 8 DVDs. :shrug:
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16:18.31kskEdePopede: thats just a thing of defining the word recent imho
16:18.43EdePopedeactually my first linux was a pc mag i bought to save myself from dying of boredom before a longer train travel. was in the days when installation parties in bookshops and such were still a thing *sigh*
16:19.00greycatSounds like they have a generic page that they don't want to have to keep updating (and isn't dynamic enough to update itself) so they use vague wording on it.
16:19.18EdePopedeksk: my thoughts. they probably have consulted their lawyers before ;)
16:21.58EdePopedeis it up to the vendor how much the project gets back?
16:22.51EdePopedehm. well. that's a bad definition of "recent" > 9 Release Juni 2017, stabil
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16:25.32AlexNagyI take back what I said about not buying an official set. I actually bought a boxed Set for RedHat 6.2 from Walmart. even came with a sticker for the keyboard wrist-rest. I installed that over a broken installation of Windows 95 on an IBM PC-330 (Pentium 90, 500MB HDD, I forget how little RAM but it was 'good enough' back then lul)
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16:26.51petn-randallEdePopede: It's free for everyone to define the price, and even how much to contribute to the project.
16:27.06AlexNagyGotta love freedom.
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16:32.33password4how is debians support of usb3.1 gen2?
16:32.48password4anyone ever got transfer speeds of 1GB/s
16:33.18de-factoGals and Guys, i have a Docker container FROM: debian:buster-slim which contains /etc/init.d scripts, how would i launch init.d process as PID1? i guess i would have to do a script (PID1 ENTRYPOINT) and do exec <launch initd process> inside that?
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16:34.00de-factoe.g. how was the init.d process (PID1) launched in debian prior to its migration to systemd?
16:34.32greycatIt's not called "init.d".  That's the name of a subdirectory of /etc.  It's just called "init" or "sysvinit".
16:34.49greycatdpkg stretch sysvinit
16:34.49dpkgTo replace systemd with sysvinit in stretch, simply "apt-get install sysvinit-core" and reboot. To switch from systemd to runit in buster or sid, "apt-get install runit-systemd", reboot, "apt-get install runit-init", and reboot again.
16:34.50petn-randallde-facto: The kernel launches PID1. And I'd call it "sysv init".
16:35.01gediahello all, i've been trying to test out buster using d-i.debian.org/daily-images/amd64/daily/netboot/, but the installer keeps failing with "no kernel modules were found". Is this expected?
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16:35.33de-factoyes how can I exec <launch sysv init>?
16:37.31petn-randallde-facto: It sounds like you've already got that, and you're getting an error message because of that. IIRC the host systemd is called in docker containers, too.
16:37.42de-factolol installing sysvinit-core restarted my container :/
16:38.02de-factono all inside the container
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16:39.17de-factobasically i want to launch several processes in one container and i have seen my debian packages come with init.d scripts, so i thought why not just use those for them
16:40.09de-factoso i would employ debian's sysvinit for that, but i guess i have to launch it from my ENTRYPOINT (PID1)
16:41.38SerajewelKSis there a way to get patch to ignore files that appear in the diff but are missing on disk?
16:41.56SerajewelKSthe closest option i see is -f but that also does other things i don't want
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16:43.24SerajewelKSi'm using it to upgrade between different versions of software, where the default installation ships with some plugins that our devs/designers delete as extra cruft
16:43.40SerajewelKSso the logic is: if the plugin is still there, i want it patched.  if it's not there, i don't want the patch to fail.
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16:44.28de-factocant you split it up in one patch per plugin and only launch patch if the plugin is there?
16:44.49SerajewelKSi mean.... yes, if i want to spend a few hours building a script to do that...
16:44.52petn-randallde-facto: Docker is only really good at starting a single process within the container. Everything above that is already abusing docker.
16:45.07petn-randall(and proper VMs or other things are better suited)
16:45.09SerajewelKSi figured as versatile as patch is, it probably has an option for this that i haven't found
16:45.11de-factoyeah i know
16:45.55de-factopetn-randall, do you know if its possible to use sysvinit inside a container?
16:46.37petn-randallde-facto: You can simply call `/etc/init.d/<foo> start`, which is exactly what sysv init would do.
16:47.15de-factoit does not assume any environment or such ?
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16:47.47petn-randall!tias
16:47.48dpkgTIAS is "Try It And See".
16:48.13petn-randallI haven't used docker so much. While it's fast, it has a fairly limited use case in my experience.
16:48.47de-factoits not perfect, but very useful in my experience
16:49.27jellyde-facto: in general it it possible to use sysvinit inside a container.  lxc and openvz based solutions can use any normal /sbin/init inside a vps
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16:50.42de-factojelly, do you know how i would start it from a script which runs as PID1? "exec /sbin/init" or sth like that?
16:51.11jellystart what?
16:51.21de-factothe sysvinit system
16:51.27greycatOh good, I'm not the only one wondering what in the hell he's asking for.
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16:52.12jellyde-facto: you could pass control to it completely? "exec /sbin/init 2"?  Dunno?
16:52.46de-factowhat does the "2" stand for?
16:52.49de-factorunlevel or such?
16:52.53jellyrunlevel.
16:53.05de-factook perfect gonna try that then :)
16:53.20jellyI have no idea how else sysvinit would know which services to bring up
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16:53.44jelly(is /proc/cmdline emulated inside that container?)
16:54.40de-factoit contains "BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-4.15.0-45-generic root=UUID=878dd72c-0827-4f9c-a223-ddf303edcb3f ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1"
16:54.41jhutchins_wkgreycat: It's docker. "Oh, let's pretend I'm a real computer".
16:55.24greycatYeah, it is sounding like "I have a docker but I really wanted an openvz so how can I make docker 10 times more powerfuller and have it pretend to be openvz, this should be totally simple, right"
16:55.27jellysomething needs to reap children of dead processes even inside a docker...
16:56.04de-factoyeah thats true, cant init do that?
16:56.06jhutchins_wkjelly: Nah, you just delete it and spin up another.
16:56.55jellyde-facto: sure, if you have a decent one that knows and wants to do it
16:57.35de-factoi mean with "exec /sbin/init 2"
16:59.02jellydunno, TIAS
16:59.27de-factook :)
16:59.57jellyignores the ubuntu host
17:00.07de-factoyeah its just for testing...
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17:00.47de-factothe server (final target) is debian stretch
17:01.37jellyde-facto: I strongly suspect it's possible to set this "entrypoint" to be /sbin/init itself and avoid any intermediate script?
17:01.53de-factothats what im trying right now
17:02.18de-factoinstalled sysvinit-core and pointed ENTRYPOINT ["/sbin/init", "2"]
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17:03.09de-factobut installing sysvinit-core is a bit tricky...
17:03.18jmcnaughtdidn't sysvinit get its default runlevel from inittab?
17:03.19de-factohmmm ".init: timeout opening/writing control channel /run/initctl"
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17:05.08de-factohmm hmm it does a lot more than i want...
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17:06.39de-factodoesnt feel right to use a full sysvinit for that...
17:07.45gediaOK so there seems not to be any linux-image-* packages in buster.... Is this normal?
17:08.24de-factoget a lot of perm denied from "/sbin/init 2": https://paste.debian.net/1070461/
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17:10.57de-factoso i probably just should call /etc/init.d/$service from my own script then...
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17:11.14gediaOh wait, it's there but it won't show up in search results...
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17:11.52gediaAny hints on how to overcome anna's "no packages matching running kernel 4.19.0-2-amd64 in archive" during installation?
17:12.40greycat,kernels
17:12.41juddAvailable kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-3-686-pae (4.19.20-1); buster: 4.19.0-2-686-pae (4.19.16-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.2-686 (4.19.16-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.144-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy-
17:12.42juddbackports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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17:13.05greycatI guess ask in the #debian-next channel on OFTC
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17:16.05gediaaparently daily build of netboot is too old and kernel packages for kernel used with d-i have since been removed :-( last build of netboot-daily was on 2019-02-09...
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17:17.44jmcnaught!testing installer
17:17.44dpkgRepeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>.  To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>.  Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage.  https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
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17:43.36de-factohmm calling "/etc/init.d/slapd start" also does not work properly, it just fails for no reason ("slapd" just launches fine)
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17:43.56de-factomaybe using /etc/init.d is not a good idea anymore :/
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17:45.56de-factowhere wold any logs go for invoking "/etc/init.d/slapd start" without launching any sysvinit?
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17:46.33diogenes_de-facto, isn't it systemctl?
17:46.54de-factoits inside a docker container, so no systemd or sysvinit at all
17:47.03greycatHe's trying to use a docker container as if it were a VM.
17:47.45FinalXinstall snap and lxd instead
17:47.58FinalXif that's what you're doing..
17:48.14de-factoyes i agree its not a VM and i cant rely on a full init system, but i would like to use those /etc/init.d scripts since they prepare a sane environment for the executables
17:48.27FinalXjust don't
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17:48.39FinalXdocker = run 1 application in the foreground, stdout/stdin/stderr managed by dockerd
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17:49.11FinalXit's like systemd running an application, but with its own OS-install.. it's not meant to do anything init-related
17:49.19FinalXplus I don't think this is a Debian issue, at all
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17:50.16de-factoim trying to use the standard debian ways for launching its packages as much as possible inside a docker container
17:51.18de-facto...which would be systemd, but thats not an option, then previous sysvinit almost works when invoking the scripts manually, but not always...
17:51.22FinalXno, you're not
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17:52.36de-facto??
17:52.37FinalXyou're not happy with the way a piece of software was designed and you're trying to force it to bend to your will anyway, regardless of the consequences, instead of looking at better alternatives
17:52.45FinalXthen just don't use docker
17:53.02FinalXyou're not *meant* to run anything but 1 main foreground process inside a docker container
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17:53.14FinalXyou're not *meant* to have sysvinit or systemd inside docker
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17:53.24FinalXand recent debian versions don't even come with sysvinit for a long time now
17:53.33FinalXit's all systemd, which, like you said, is unavailable
17:53.50greycatto be fair, stretch still supports installation and use of sysvinit
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17:54.04FinalXdoesn't mean that packages that come with it all do
17:54.06greycatbut, you know, only in an actual Debian system, not in a docker container
17:54.18de-factoyes i know all that, im just trying to gain some experience (i dont say i disagree with all those facts)
17:54.48FinalXreally all sounds like some developers here that drank the docker-koolaid and just force everything to be docker because they want it to be docker without actually taking a step back and look at if it's really the right solution for it
17:55.15FinalXit's not always a good idea to just force everything into docker containers just for the heck of having it in docker
17:55.32de-factoi have my reasons, i have it running natively already
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17:56.20de-factoi want the isolation from the host system
17:57.28jellyuse a better containerization system
17:57.57de-factosystemd nspawn?
17:58.03jmcnaughti would try using systemd-nspawn before docker
17:58.13jellyI don't have experience with that one.
17:59.23de-factojelly, which one did you think of ?
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18:03.04de-factolxc maybe?
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18:06.18jellyde-facto: just something that's made for persistent, stateful services, unlike docker
18:06.50greycatOut of curiosity, what *is* docker designed for?
18:07.33jellyspawning lots of workers any which one could die and be thrown away without a tear shed
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18:08.29jellyhorizontally scalable cloud doodads, I guess
18:08.33de-factoinitially i came to it because of my CI/CD and it works great for that. running services on it is a bit... difficult sometimes
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18:09.30de-factobut i like the isolation for security (yet it also causes the problems)
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18:09.43jellya CI/CD workflow probably does builds and tests and whatnot and stores actual results elsewhere
18:09.55de-factoyes exactly
18:10.29jellyde-facto: do NOT rely on linux containers (user namespaces, net namespaces) for security.
18:10.39jellyshit's broken
18:10.42de-factoi dont, i just want it in addition
18:11.09jellyconsider user ns as chroots with some extra features.  chroots can be escaped from.
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18:11.50jellynoone files CVE for those because there are literally hundreds
18:11.53de-factoyes i read the CVE's about docker... i just want an addidional layer of isolation if anything comes through a bug in the first layer
18:12.46jellyI mean kernel functionality (for unprivileged user namespaces) is broken in that regard.  I have no idea whether docker itself is extra broken on top of that.
18:12.50de-factoplus its pretty nice to have things in one image (which is somewhat portable)
18:13.24jelly(not to mention questionable practice of using someone else's prebuilt images)
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18:14.08de-factothats why i want to build them myself with only relying on debian packages
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18:16.12deadromhi
18:16.39deadromxfs_repair gives me "wrong magic number" - what is a magic number?
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18:17.33deadromno wait, wrong fs :D
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18:25.39rantI mount --bind /sys /mnt/sys and now I can't unmount it because /sys is busy.. this doesn't make any sense to me
18:26.20ranthttp://paste.debian.net/1070477/
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18:29.38rwprant,  Try "umount -l /mnt/sys".  It's not really a clean solution though.  Eventually the next reboot in the future will clean it.
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18:30.50rantrwp: ah, thanks.. I dont get that.. it was a damn bind.. the bind wasn't in use, the target was
18:31.11rantI wasn't telling it to umount the target
18:31.12rwpI agree.  I have seen that problem myself before too.
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18:46.35davishello
18:47.34davisI have a weird problem.  I have two similar laptops.  Both have a nvidia and builtin video.  One works great and the other has problems.  I'm running dpkg-query -l side by side to see why one works and the other does not.
18:48.08davison the one whic does not work, I see this entry for rc bumblebee-nvidia
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18:48.46davisi think the rc is remove, but why does it show up once its removed? apt-get remove bumblebee-nvidia says its not installed.
18:49.27jmcnaughtdavis: rc means the package has been removed but not purged, so it still has config files
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18:49.57davishow do i purge it?
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18:50.32davisi actually have more than one nvidia package marked as rc
18:50.34jmcnaught"apt-get purge <packages>" take a look at "man apt-get" if you want to understand it better
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18:51.44davismany thanks
18:52.16jmcnaughtdavis: you might also want to look at https://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee
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18:52.39davisfwiw, i gave up trying to get opengl acceleration working on these laptops
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18:53.54jmcnaughtthere might be a UEFI/BIOS option to disable optimus and force usage of one of GPUs all the time
18:54.13jmcnaughtanyways good luck, got to go but lots of others here to help
18:54.53davisunfortunately, neither of these laptops have that option.  I looked for that previously. But thanks again though.
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19:03.43deadromumm
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19:03.55deadromI just issued "su" <- segfault.
19:03.57rantok, I have a thumbdrive here I debootstrapped and setup grub on, installed ssh, what do I need to do to ensure the headless machine I plug this into gets on the network via ethernet with dhcp when I boot it with this thumbdrive?
19:03.59deadromI'm scared.
19:05.36rantwould installing network-manager be enough?
19:05.37petn-randalldeadrom: Time to restore from backups ...
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19:11.04rantinstalls firmware-linux-nonfree just to be sure
19:11.21teclo-Hi, what LiveCD "distribution" would you recommand to run Debian GNU/Linux stable ?
19:11.46rantteclo-: there is only one. Debian GNU/Linux
19:12.05jellyprobably a livecd image of actual Debian GNU/Linux stable, ehhhh?
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19:12.59greycatIs this a trick question?
19:13.25reddIs that a trick question?
19:13.27greycatI mean... I guess there are different Desktop Environment "flavors" of the live images, so maybe he's asking which DE to use?
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19:13.37jellywell if it's a trick it cught three, er, four idiots so far
19:13.54rantjelly: HEY! I resemble that remark!
19:14.37teclo-jelly: yes
19:14.47teclo-jelly: where are the LiveCD images of Debian GNU/Linux then ? :)
19:15.16jelly!livecd
19:15.16dpkgA "live CD" (or live system) is an operating system that can boot and run directly from CD.  Linux-based examples are Knoppix and Ubuntu.  Useful as a rescue CD or for showing off to your geek friends.  Debian has its own Live CD (http://live.debian.net/), ask me about <debian live>.  http://www.livecdlist.com/
19:15.29jellyerm.
19:15.32jelly!debian live
19:15.32dpkgThe Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own.  NOT recommended for installing Debian.  Live images are available from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ .  https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive  #debian-live on irc.debian.org; also see <live login>, <uefi live>.
19:15.46jellyand for some hardware,
19:15.49jelly!firmware live
19:15.49dpkgUnofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 9 "Stretch" as a live OS are available at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ . See also <firmware images>.
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19:16.39dtuxanyone use a live cd/usb permanently (i.e. in a workflow where the os is never installed)??
19:16.41jellyif your hardware isn't _carefully_ chosen to work 100% with only free software, you might have a better experience with firmware-laden images
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19:19.30teclo-indeed there's what I need there https://www.debian.org/CD/live/
19:19.34teclo-thanks :)
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19:22.17jellytho now that people run more stuff in VMs, normal images are more useful because emulated hardware typically needs no firrmware bits
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19:26.43deadrompetn-randall: nah, un. and replugging a usb3 device upset the system. well, deb8, old 3.16 kernel, I REALLY should upgrade
19:27.08deadrombut what's this: md3 : active (auto-read-only) <- what's with the read-only?
19:28.42petn-randalldeadrom: That's normal. It only gets set to writeable if you have write access on it.
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20:29.13jhutchins_wkIt's a stupid decision made at the upstream developer level that auto-mounts should be read-only except for root.
20:29.48jhutchins_wkdeadrom: What I usually do is put an entry either for the device uuid or the /dev/srX path in fstab.
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20:30.51deadromjhutchins_wk: actually turs rw on access like petn-randall said so no problem here
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20:31.28jhutchins_wkHuh.  That's new.
20:31.37deadrompractical question: how can one tag and untag files or directories easily for backup?
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20:32.03jhutchins_wkSo... Many... Answers...
20:32.20jhutchins_wkdeadrom: Take a look at 'man dump'.
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20:32.50jhutchins_wkdeadrom: Pretty much everything else requires either an add list or skip list.
20:33.18jhutchins_wkI don't know of anything except dump that honors the dump flag.
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20:33.55jhutchins_wkrdiff-backup only backs up changes.
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20:34.58deadromjhutchins_wk: yeaaah well. it's a fairly large system with some files that can easily be reacquired while others cant
20:35.14deadromI want to limit backup cap for cost reasons mainly
20:35.59jhutchins_wkdeadrom: Can you do it by tree/folder instead of by file?
20:36.22deadromto some extent yes
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20:37.30deadromno wait, you know what, that's stupid. I'll end up bringing a truckload of housekeeping over me
20:37.34deadromfull backup or bust
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20:37.59jhutchins_wkdeadrom: There is stuff you want to avoid like /dev
20:38.04jhutchins_wk!what to back up
20:38.11jhutchins_wk!backup
20:38.11dpkgA backup is something you should do *ALWAYS*. if you value your sh*t in the least. Otherwise eons of built-up data can go BYE BYE FOREVER one day if you do not; either by HD malfunction, intentional evil by crackers, mischievous glak elves invading your system, or large magnets getting out of hand. Pay the dollars for a tape system or CDR and use <tar> (optionally with bzip2 at lowest compression). See <things to backup>.
20:38.14deadromchecks hdd sweet spot
20:38.27jhutchins_wk!things to backup
20:38.27dpkgSome things you should back up include: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv.  Tailor to your own purposes.  If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/backups /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/mail /var/www /var/cache/debconf /var/spool/cron ...
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21:08.29twImmediately after login, when I run `systemctl --user show-environment | grep SHELL` it shows `SHELL=` (as in blank). This is a fairly fresh deb9 install w/ cinnamon DE. How can I get that value populated from the system value for that user (eg, the value returned by getpwnam()->pw_shell)?
21:09.05twuser's shell is /bin/sh in /etc/passwd
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21:10.20twAdditionally, in .xsession-errors, there is a line `dbus-update-activation-environment: setting SHELL=`
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21:11.52jhutchins_wktw: Out of curiosity what does echo $SHELL return?
21:12.39jhutchins_wktw: ... or env
21:13.16twit's set, but blank.
21:13.22twzero-length string.
21:13.34greycatWell, that seems relevant, ... how did it get that way?
21:13.45twexport | grep SHELL -> declare -x SHELL=""
21:13.51greycatHow did you actually login, and how did you get to a place where you can run shell commands?
21:14.00twDE login via lightdm
21:14.24twthen open a terminal via menu.
21:14.39twI can try from vt1.
21:15.01greycatI would expect it to work from a tty1 login, because that's an entirely different set of programs.
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21:15.17twAnd it does from vt1.
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21:15.30kevinnnDoes anyone know how I can totally disable getty?
21:15.42greycat"What could POSSIBLY go wrong?!"
21:15.51kevinnnI don't want any logon prompt showing up when my system boots
21:16.09kevinnnI don't want to be able to switch between tty's with alt keys
21:16.20greycatWell, that's two completely different things.
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21:16.40kevinnnreally?
21:16.53kevinnnswitching between ttys isn't related to getty?
21:17.25greycatNope.
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21:17.54quantum# apt-get --recv-keys --keyserver keys.gnupg.net E1F958385BFE2B6E
21:18.04kevinnnah, okay well how can I accomplish what I am trying to do?
21:18.18quantum... wants dirmngr.  But dirmng conflicts with gnupg.  How can this be?
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21:18.57twkevinnn: I'd remove the switch vt bindings from xmodmap, so once x is up, it doesn't go away.
21:19.20kevinnnthere's no X installed on my system
21:19.39greycatkevinnn: I found a web page that suggests the number of virtual consoles is handled by /etc/systemd/logind.conf but I have not tested that
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21:20.08kevinnngreycat: I have followed that guide too
21:20.20kevinnnbut the login prompt still shows for tty1
21:21.04greycatwell as I said, getty has nothing to do with Linux virtual consoles
21:21.19greycatif you *also* want to disable gettys, that'll be a separate step
21:21.27twwhat's the point of this exercise? You want to completely disable console access?
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21:21.31kevinnnright, I understand that now
21:21.41kevinnnyes that is the point
21:21.42greycatHe wants a rock, apparently.  A rock that consumes electricity.
21:21.48kevinnnlol
21:21.57kevinnnthe system can still be accessed via ssh
21:22.06twuntil you have a NIC failure.
21:22.17kevinnnthat's right essentially
21:22.24twAnyway, the direct answer is mask getty@tty1.service
21:22.28twin systemd.
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21:22.48kevinnnI've tried disabling it and that did not work
21:22.52kevinnnbut I will try masking it
21:24.10somiajdisable only stops it from being run at boot, which is different than a hook requesting to run it.
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21:25.00greycatyou probably also need to mask getty@.service
21:25.24somiajyea, otherwise hitting alt-f2 would cause a hook to run getty@tty2.service
21:25.31greycatFor obvious reasons, I have never attempted this before.
21:26.31kevinnnokay masking it didn't help
21:26.54kevinnnlet me try masking that too
21:27.03jhutchins_wkjust discovered console-setup
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21:27.26jhutchins_wkWhich answers the question "How do I change the font on the virtual consoles".
21:27.35kevinnnFailed to get properties: Unit name getty@.service is missing the instance name.
21:27.45kevinnnso getty@.service doesn't exist...
21:27.50kevinnncould it be a different name?
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21:29.18kevinnnsystemctl | grep getty returns this:
21:29.19kevinnngetty@tty1.service                                                                                   loaded active running   Getty on tty1                                                                          system-getty.slice                                                                                   loaded active active    system-getty.slice                                                                     getty.target
21:29.19somiajIt is a service in the sense that /lib/systemd/system/getty@.service exists, but the service is a collection of getty@foo.service. So you may need some specific systemd syntax to disable that wildcard service.
21:29.27greycatThat's ... a stumper.  "systemctl cat getty@.service" shows it, but "systemctl status getty@.service" doesn't.
21:29.36kevinnnhow is getty@tty1.service running
21:29.42kevinnnI disabled that
21:29.56somiajdisabled or masked?
21:30.02kevinnnmasked
21:30.14somiajhave you rebooted since then? masking won't stop the current service from running.
21:30.23kevinnnyes I have rebooted
21:30.24somiajit masks the service, it doesn't also stop it
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21:31.35jhutchins_wkkevinnn: I think you're looking for logind, /etc/logind.conf
21:31.41somiajseems it is apart of getty.target.wants, so check ls -l /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/
21:31.49jhutchins_wkkevinnn: I suspect there's a service in systemd you can disable.
21:32.07jhutchins_wkkevinnn: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/56531/how-to-get-fewer-ttys-with-systemd
21:32.24kevinnnjhutchins_wk: that file doesn't exist but this one does /etc/systemd/logind.conf
21:32.28greycatjhutchins_wk: we covered that part, now he wants to remove the getty so he can't log in at all
21:32.31somiajjhutchins_wk: /etc/systemd/logind.conf -- though I supspect there is something else going on here due to how core this service is for most people.
21:32.32kevinnnis that the one you're referring to?
21:32.59kevinnnls: cannot access '/etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/': No such file or directory
21:33.05kevinnnsomiaj
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21:33.20kevinnnthat directory doesn't exist :(
21:33.39somiajI think you need to 1) remove the link from /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/, and 2) make a link in /etc/systemd/system/getty@.service to /dev/null
21:34.03kevinnnthis directory does though /lib/systemd/system/getty.target.wants
21:34.27kevinnnremove the link from where?
21:34.31somiajhmm, then unsure why I have that link there, I don't reacall putting it there. But if you make a link in /etc/systemd/system/getty@.service to /dev/null that should override the system getty@.service with your custom one, which is the /dev/null service that does nothing.
21:34.50jhutchins_wkkevinnn: With systemd there's been a tendency for things to move around on the system.
21:35.05jhutchins_wksomiaj: Upgraded system?
21:36.04somiajjhutchins_wk: should be a fresh install, but maybe I did something in which systemctl made a local copy of the service in /etc.
21:36.21kevinnngetty@.service doesn't exist in that folder but getty@tty1.service and getty@tty1.service.d do
21:36.36kevinnnsomiaj: and that is in the /etc/systemd/system
21:36.41somiajkevinnn: what version of debian are you running?
21:36.45kevinnnshould I set them to /dev/null
21:37.07somiajkevinnn: are all those linkns pointing to /dev/null?
21:37.10greycatyou're kind of in uncharted waters here... nobody has ever WANTED this before
21:37.16kevinnnRaspbian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l
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21:37.21greycat*sigh*
21:37.30greycatwell THAT explains half of it ... he's not on Debian
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21:37.47kevinnngetty@tty1.service -> /dev/null
21:37.54kevinnnthat is pointing to null
21:38.05kevinnnbut getty@tty1.service.d is a regular file
21:38.11kevinnnnot a link
21:38.23jhutchins_wkkevinnn: That is EXACTLY why we don't support raspian.  Things are done differently and are in different places.
21:38.28jhutchins_wk!raspian
21:38.28dpkgRaspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>.  Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian.  Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support.   http://www.raspbian.org/
21:38.39greycat.d had better be a directory
21:38.42somiajkevinnn: they are all pointing to /dev/null because you masked the services, that is exactly what masking a service does.
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21:39.29kevinnnoops my bad the .d is a directory
21:39.43jhutchins_wkkevinnn: Applying Devian system configuration to a raspian system sounds like an excellent way to brick your pi.
21:39.44kevinnnokay so if it is masked then why is it still showing?
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21:40.19greycatjhutchins_wk: and what does "I want to completely disable all logins except ssh" sound like?
21:40.25somiajyou may want to go ask in systemd channel directly, this is not something that someone normally wants to do. There might be some target or more core issue causing the service to run eventhough it is masked.
21:40.53somiaj(note there may also be some subtle thing happening because of the wild card service getty@.service and masking not working as we expect it to)
21:41.11kevinnnsomiaj: well darn, I doubt I'll get a response on #systemd
21:41.52somiajwell you shouldn't be asking here for raspberry pi either, you could try ##linux, but I think #systemd would be the best bet to find someone how actually knows more about the inner workings here (since this is not something most people would want to do)
21:42.25kevinnnokay thank you all for the pointers, I'll go ask on #systemd
21:42.41kevinnnI'll let you guys know what I find if I do find anything :)
21:42.44jhutchins_wkkevinnn: Here's an answer to that exact quetion.  Debian though, see above for why it might not work.  https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/352141/disable-console-screen-on-debian
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21:44.16somiaj(that is also for Debian 8, so unsure if systemd has changed for Debian 9, though I do see the autovt@.service)
21:45.04jhutchins_wkYeah, like I said earlier, systemd is a moving target.
21:45.23kevinnnjhutchins_wk: wow
21:45.28kevinnnthat link you posted
21:45.30kevinnnthat worked
21:45.57kevinnnTHANK YOU :)
21:46.02twGoing back to my weird environment, the dbus activation env comes out of /etc/X11/Xession.d/95dbus_update-activation-env, but I expect SHELL to be set before it gets here by pam session.
21:46.15greycatso wait, there is a second person on this planet who wanted that?
21:46.40greycatoh, the other one says "Debian VM" so it's not the same
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21:47.36somiajYea, I guess there could be some security help there, if someone could somehow vnc/spice/etc to the vm. Though for a physical machine, I don't see any gain, if someone has physical access they can get your data if it is not encrypted.
21:47.36kevinnnso now a bit more of a technical question... when I hit ctrl+alt+del the computer reboots... what service is listening for these keys?
21:48.03kevinnnand is it possible to disable this service?
21:48.25somiajpossible yes, though I think this is more likely something in the kernel than a service (just a guess though)
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21:48.36greycatIt *used* to be handled in /etc/inittab under sysvinit ... I have no idea how it's handled now.
21:48.52kevinnnhmm, you mean I'll have to rebuild the kernel to do this?
21:49.00somiajahh then yea, probably systemd
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21:49.09greycatfrom wheezy:
21:49.10greycat# What to do when CTRL-ALT-DEL is pressed.
21:49.10greycatca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now
21:49.23kevinnnfrom wheezy?
21:49.29kevinnnwhere is this config located?
21:49.36greycatI don't KNOW.  That's my point.
21:49.40twit isn't. systemd doesn't use that file.
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21:49.53kevinnn...
21:49.55kevinnnhmm
21:49.57jhutchins_wkkevinnn: If you manage to disable the root vty that might eliminate Ctrl-Alt-Del
21:50.03somiajahh there is a /lib/systemd/system/ctrl-alt-del.target -> reboot.target, so you have to disable that .target.
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21:50.23kevinnnroot vty?
21:50.30somiajlooks like you can mask that target and it should work.
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21:50.38jhutchins_wksomiaj: +
21:50.50greycatsomiaj: damn it!  I grepped for "ctrl" and "shutdown" in the FILES there and got nothing!  I didn't think to grep their NAMES.
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21:51.23greycat... oh fuck.  I did the greps on wheezy, so obviously that didn't find it.
21:51.49greycatyeah, a bit different result on the "grep -i ctrl *" on stretch
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21:53.16kevinnnsystemctl disable ctrl-alt-del.target doesn't print anything
21:53.22kevinnnthat means it didn't work right?
21:53.50greycatyou're really new at this Unix thing, aren't you
21:53.52twsystemctl mask is different than disable.
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21:55.13kevinnnokay I tried mask and it did print output
21:55.31kevinnnweird that mask would print something but disable wouldn't
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21:56.34kevinnnokay mask did not work either
21:56.52greycatdid you also *stop* it?
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21:58.13jmcnaughtyou might need to run "systemctl daemon-reload" so it knows about the new symlink in /etc…
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21:59.25greycatwell, I guess it's kind of a moot question, because the only way he'd know it "didn't work" is if his system rebooted, and that should stop the service
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22:36.17twI did a clean install in a VM and SHELL is being set properly, so it has to be admin error on this system, I just don't know where.
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22:37.59twProbably just going to take a quick backup, run automated install, and restore home+packages.
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