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| 00:24.07 | storgance | ksk: sorry on the such late response, thank you for your answer though! |
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| 00:51.01 | kreyren | How can i get this package on debian? https://snapcraft.io/anbox-installer |
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| 00:55.46 | Deihmos | during installation there is an option to chose the kernel. what happens if i chose none how can i instal my own kernell? I tried it in a vm but it was a fail |
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| 02:01.16 | p0a | Hello |
| 02:01.30 | p0a | I have a question, should I install packages from dpkg or should I install them from source? |
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| 02:04.25 | abrotman | why wouldn't you install them from packages? |
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| 02:04.38 | abrotman | also, I feel like asking that question means packages |
| 02:04.53 | p0a | recent versions? |
| 02:05.05 | p0a | ubuntu has a lot of outdated stuff. maybe I don't understand how repos work |
| 02:05.30 | abrotman | This isn't #ubuntu ... but who cares if it's out of date (or stable) if it works and has the features you need? |
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| 02:05.57 | p0a | I'm just talking about previous experiences |
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| 02:06.18 | p0a | if it does have the features, sure |
| 02:06.22 | p0a | I guess I'll go with packages for now |
| 02:06.30 | p0a | I don't need much to be frank |
| 02:07.46 | p0a | abrotman: just wanted to ask, I've done this mistake in the past and it somehow messes up the system |
| 02:07.56 | p0a | abrotman: so I was wondering if there's a safe way to do this... ? |
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| 02:12.14 | abrotman | p0a: use packages unless you have a good reason |
| 02:12.15 | abrotman | !sns |
| 02:12.15 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
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| 02:13.02 | mason | p0a: Older software has accumulated a protective layer of dust, which makes it work better. |
| 02:13.23 | abrotman | eh, I don't know if I'd say that |
| 02:13.37 | p0a | except for security patches |
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| 02:15.15 | Deihmos | how do you search the backports from this channel again? |
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| 02:16.46 | WoC | Does the amd OpenCL work in debian ? ( Found out it's broken in ubuntu) |
| 02:17.09 | p0a | in what way is it broken? |
| 02:17.24 | Deihmos | the apps in debian repos are like 3 years old |
| 02:18.08 | p0a | well that's why I'm asking if I can install selectively from source |
| 02:18.14 | p0a | there's a couple things I'd like to have updated |
| 02:18.22 | p0a | I guess dependencies can mess with that though |
| 02:18.38 | p0a | I'll try packages first and see if that deprives me of anything |
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| 02:19.43 | Deihmos | my server runs like 5 apps. they are all from the source |
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| 02:26.18 | p0a | How do I login as root? It complains about me not being in the sudoers file |
| 02:26.47 | WoC | p0a trying to run a app that runs w/o issues with nVidia GPU but wont with AMD GPU, seems like the OpenCL is built wrong |
| 02:26.59 | p0a | okay, su -l |
| 02:27.22 | p0a | WoC: what's the error? Have you asked in #ubuntu about it? |
| 02:28.03 | WoC | It's a AMD issue, so not a ubuntu issue |
| 02:28.26 | WoC | Anyhow, fixing to try Arch |
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| 02:29.05 | p0a | Why does `apt' ask me to enter a CD ? |
| 02:29.34 | p0a | If it's an AMD issue why would debian or arch make a difference I wonder... |
| 02:29.57 | p0a | nevermind I see I have to comment out a line |
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| 02:47.54 | karlpinc | p0a: You probably installed from a CD instead of using the recommended netinstall. |
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| 02:54.15 | p0a | karlpinc: yup |
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| 02:59.04 | dvs | time to comment out the CD and add the online sources |
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| 03:21.32 | Deihmos | https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecovery which one of these backup tools would you recommend |
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| 03:32.22 | fulltimeret4rd | hey, someone here with experience of lvm2 in a ssd raid 1 ? Problem is the extremly poor write speed of 10 MB/s (Samsung 840 Pro) - heres a bit more info https://pastebin.com/rzH1PKBR - im just curious about the lvm Total PE, Alloc PE and Free PE because that cant be actual correct |
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| 03:36.11 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: better use lsblk instead of fdisk -l ;) |
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| 03:36.39 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: so u want that output :)? |
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| 03:36.53 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: can you pastebin output of dmesg -T, lsblk and cat /proc/mdstat |
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| 03:37.28 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: sure, gimme a sec |
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| 03:38.21 | RoyK | lsblk is a wee bit easier to read than fdisk -l |
| 03:40.18 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: https://pastebin.com/4PRPJ1U5 |
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| 03:42.00 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: my only intention at the moment is that it has something to do with the ssd related issues like trim and so on. the raid was created 2015 and is running since then. in the /etc/lvm/lvm.conf i have the discard option enabled |
| 03:42.29 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: better use fstrim now and then instead of mounting with trim |
| 03:42.54 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: and I'd suggest using full disks instead of partitions when you don't need them |
| 03:43.36 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: that would be my next question, do i need trim/fstrim enabled on the host system or is the lvm discard enough? |
| 03:44.28 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: btw im using the full disk |
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| 03:44.44 | RoyK | depends on whether the controller supports UNMAP/TRIM |
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| 03:44.59 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: no, you're using partitions on a lot on those ;) |
| 03:45.10 | RoyK | see lsblk output |
| 03:46.07 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: but again - I don't think that's the issue |
| 03:46.49 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: ok, should i just set up trim or fstrim ? |
| 03:47.06 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: but all of those messages on sdc and sdd - no data - what is that? |
| 03:47.18 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: dont know |
| 03:47.31 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: maybe the problem starts there |
| 03:47.39 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: which debian version is this? which kernel? |
| 03:47.53 | RoyK | something seems dodgy there |
| 03:48.05 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: root@proxmox2:~# uname -r 4.15.18-10-pve root@proxmox2:~# cat /etc/debian_version 9.8 |
| 03:48.18 | mason | proooooxxxxx...... mooooooooxxxxx..... |
| 03:48.29 | mason | Which is to say, not Debian. |
| 03:48.59 | fulltimeret4rd | true, but this issue has nothing to do with prxmx |
| 03:49.47 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: 4.15 isn't in stable |
| 03:51.01 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: any SID fishing going on? |
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| 03:51.48 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: btw, http://paste.debian.net/ is a wee bit better - spam-free |
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| 03:52.38 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: what do u mean by sid fishing? |
| 03:53.00 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: where did the kernel package come from? |
| 03:53.19 | mason | RoyK: From proxmox, presumably. |
| 03:53.19 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: apt source? |
| 03:53.45 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: deb http://download.proxmox.com/debian stretch pve-no-subscription |
| 03:54.06 | RoyK | ok - anyway |
| 03:54.40 | RoyK | something is strange with those two drives or the interconnects |
| 03:55.05 | fulltimeret4rd | look at 23:2x |
| 03:55.21 | fulltimeret4rd | where i dd write a 1 Gig file |
| 03:55.41 | RoyK | and it's peculiar that it's no messages there - just the device name |
| 03:55.45 | RoyK | never seen that |
| 03:57.40 | fulltimeret4rd | how would u describe that in 3 words (for a googlesearch) |
| 03:57.48 | fulltimeret4rd | the dmesg bug |
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| 03:58.17 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: are all of those disks connected to the same controller? |
| 03:58.27 | fulltimeret4rd | same sata controller |
| 03:58.44 | fulltimeret4rd | its an asus board with haswell chipset |
| 03:59.15 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: I just don't get it that you don't get any messages in dmesg and only the device names |
| 03:59.45 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: ye i just searched the web but cannot find anything to that |
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| 04:00.11 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: can you try an official kernel from debian? |
| 04:00.18 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: just to see if something changes |
| 04:00.48 | fulltimeret4rd | i will if im in the office |
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| 04:01.43 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: check smartctl -a for those disks too |
| 04:02.36 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: cant do anything with the raid at the moment cause the vpn is running on one of those ssds - if i write for example 1 GIG to that raid, all vms on it instantly crash and ofc my connection interrupts |
| 04:03.20 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: smartctl doesn't generate any i/o traffic unless you give it -t |
| 04:04.14 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: http://paste.debian.net/1072008/ |
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| 04:05.16 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: looks good - what sort of fs do you have on top? |
| 04:07.25 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: not sure what u mean, wasnt set up by me, its an raid 1 with one lvm2 on it - running only idleing debian servers... |
| 04:08.21 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: ext4? xfs? jfs? btrfs? |
| 04:08.34 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: DOS |
| 04:09.03 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: so basically RAW, in fstab this lvm2 is mounted with the option EXT4, |
| 04:10.12 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: sorry its mounted with the ext3 option: "/dev/mapper/pve-data /opt/data ext3 defaults 0 2" |
| 04:10.39 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: ok - ext3 isn't recommended anymore - it's 10+ years old |
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| 04:10.49 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: better convert that to ext4 |
| 04:11.07 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: and run fstrim on the fs after converting |
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| 04:11.25 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: perhaps fstrim supports ext3 also - dunno |
| 04:11.30 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: true, but it isnt ext3 right? u saw the fdisk from the pastebin |
| 04:12.17 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: thats the problem for me at the moment - dunno anything about lvm |
| 04:12.22 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: run mount - check what it says |
| 04:12.38 | RoyK | I really doubt this is related to lvm |
| 04:12.57 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: "/dev/mapper/pve-data on /opt/data type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)" |
| 04:13.39 | RoyK | just don't use ext3 unless you have a very good reason to it, which I really can't picture |
| 04:14.22 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: is this system an old system upgraded from an older thing? |
| 04:15.08 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: i get u, but that shouldnt downgrade ssd performance to 10 MB/s, yes we recently upgraded the system from kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64 |
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| 04:15.46 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: but the thing is we dont know if the problem was there before |
| 04:15.50 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: seems fstrim supports ext3 |
| 04:16.07 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: at least what I can read after a few google searches |
| 04:16.27 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: so should i just install it and run it once? |
| 04:16.40 | RoyK | should work |
| 04:16.50 | RoyK | and cron it to run weekly or something |
| 04:16.58 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: is the filesystem full? |
| 04:17.56 | RoyK | full filesystems, especially old stuff like ext3, get very fragmented when full |
| 04:18.24 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: like i said: pastebin.com/rzH1PKBR |
| 04:18.37 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: i dont get the alloc and used thing |
| 04:19.31 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: there are thick provisioned vms in total of around 250 GB, the actual used space is 100GB but lvm says its used to 98% |
| 04:21.27 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: that doesn't show the fill of the filesystems |
| 04:22.23 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: a df -h says "/dev/mapper/pve-data Size 443G Used 108G Aviable332G 25% /opt/data |
| 04:22.38 | RoyK | that's not the filesystem |
| 04:22.45 | RoyK | oh |
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| 04:22.47 | RoyK | yes |
| 04:22.49 | RoyK | sorry |
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| 04:23.04 | RoyK | anyway - try to run fstrim first |
| 04:23.08 | RoyK | then change to ext4 |
| 04:23.43 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: u know roundabout how long this will take for a 840 pro 500GB ? |
| 04:24.00 | RoyK | a few minutes at most |
| 04:24.09 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: k, thanks |
| 04:24.12 | RoyK | probably far less |
| 04:24.59 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: fstrim -a? |
| 04:25.11 | RoyK | fstrim /mountpoint |
| 04:25.21 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: ok |
| 04:26.50 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: fstrim is not even in my repos... |
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| 04:28.24 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: it should be in util-linux |
| 04:28.35 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: which should be installed already |
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| 04:28.54 | phazon | fulltimeret4rd: it is part of the 'essential' pkg set; you definitely have it |
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| 04:30.13 | phazon | it's under /sbin, which isn't in the default $PATH for most users |
| 04:31.36 | RoyK | phazon: it's in path if you do something like 'sudo -i' or 'su -' |
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| 04:32.18 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: its running with I/O 98.81 % fstrim /opt/data |
| 04:32.51 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: that's good |
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| 04:33.08 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: and no crashes so far :) |
| 04:33.21 | RoyK | which is also good :) |
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| 04:36.25 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: 1073741824 Bytes (1,1 GB, 1,0 GiB) copied, 9,2763 s, 116 MB/s |
| 04:36.31 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: i love u |
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| 04:36.56 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: not perfect speeds but atleast something to work on |
| 04:37.34 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: not sure if I want to kiss you, but thank you <3 |
| 04:38.09 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: but better change that to ext4 - it's far better for large files |
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| 04:38.18 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: i will for sure |
| 04:38.37 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: but need to be in range to the server if i do that |
| 04:39.29 | RoyK | yes, and make a backup first |
| 04:39.48 | RoyK | that is - always keep a backup, regardless of redundancy |
| 04:40.01 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: so basically, unmount, convert, remount |
| 04:40.09 | RoyK | yes |
| 04:40.23 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: nothing special to take care about in a raid? |
| 04:40.36 | RoyK | or perhaps better - backup, create ext4 and restore |
| 04:40.55 | RoyK | since the newer versions of ext4 has things that can't be migrated |
| 04:41.10 | RoyK | about the raid, none |
| 04:41.37 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: i think i will do a fresh ext4 like u said |
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| 04:41.53 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: I'd recommend that if you have the time |
| 04:42.24 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: or even - use xfs |
| 04:42.38 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: thats what i wanted to ask |
| 04:42.43 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: but that wouldn't be necessary for such a small filesystem |
| 04:43.01 | RoyK | ext4 is well tested and works |
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| 04:43.14 | RoyK | xfs is better for bigger filesystems |
| 04:43.32 | RoyK | redhat/centos uses xfs for everything these days |
| 04:43.47 | RoyK | I stick to ext4 for small things and use xfs for large things |
| 04:43.57 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: i red something about ZFS, it should be better for a proxmox vm storage in case of snapshotting etc, |
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| 04:44.23 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: zfs rocks, really - I've been working with it for 10 years or so |
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| 04:45.29 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: but I don't usually recommend it, since it's not in the official repos, that is, what's in the official repos is the FUSE thing, which isn't too good |
| 04:45.45 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: the thing is i have to read like 2 days at the moment, cause im new to that proxmox thing... everyone is telling something else - LVM, ThinLVM or ZFS |
| 04:46.25 | RoyK | better use ZFS, then |
| 04:46.38 | RoyK | and toss in an SSD or two for caching |
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| 04:46.57 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: ok one more thing, i forget why but shouldn i switch to GPT too? even its only 500gig |
| 04:47.00 | RoyK | that is - for the rotational rust |
| 04:47.17 | RoyK | no need for a partition table with mdraid |
| 04:47.28 | RoyK | with zfs, it'll create GPT for you |
| 04:47.48 | RoyK | but zero out the partition table if you want zfs |
| 04:48.05 | RoyK | something like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX bs=1M count=1 |
| 04:48.46 | RoyK | make sure it's the right device ;) |
| 04:49.32 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: ok, thanks a lot mate! |
| 04:49.42 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: np :) |
| 04:50.02 | RoyK | fulltimeret4rd: btw, where're you from? |
| 04:50.09 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: .de |
| 04:50.18 | RoyK | .no |
| 04:50.31 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: norway? :D |
| 04:50.37 | RoyK | oslo |
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| 04:50.58 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: Well not as fast as Stockholm i guess :D |
| 04:51.18 | RoyK | hm? |
| 04:51.42 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: scandinavian internet rumors, nevermind :D |
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| 04:51.55 | RoyK | where in .de? |
| 04:52.48 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: ye, our tech websites always stunned about infratructure in for example sweden |
| 04:53.25 | fulltimeret4rd | RoyK: in germany almost high dense country with the worst bandwidht |
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| 05:07.39 | echeveria | when rebooting into memtest86 from debian stable, I'm seeing no video output on most of my machines. serial isn't an option, is there any fallback video modes I'm missing? |
| 05:08.07 | echeveria | it works on an Intel NUC, doesn't work on a Thinkpad X1C6. |
| 05:09.06 | echeveria | it seems to actually boot (beeps, etc), but no output |
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| 05:10.19 | tarzeau | echeveria: try user space memtester? |
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| 05:10.37 | tarzeau | that also allows you to check GPU memory (using metestCL, not officially in debian though) |
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| 05:10.46 | tarzeau | ok NUCs don't usually have nvidia gpus right? |
| 05:11.16 | tarzeau | echeveria: i've had similar problems, and non-x86 computers with the need to test memory (solaris/linux on sparc/usparc) , 10 years ago |
| 05:11.22 | echeveria | it's an i5 NUC using the on CPU graphics. the thinkpad is similar in hardware, other than the resolution. |
| 05:11.26 | tarzeau | i gave up on the bios memtest86(+) |
| 05:11.48 | tarzeau | simply it's also slow on very large memory systems (512 GB-1.5 TB) |
| 05:11.59 | echeveria | userspace memtester works fine, but it'd be nice to have the full one. I have to think it's something about the way it's passing video modes or something. |
| 05:12.02 | tarzeau | and memtester allows you to split it in parts, run several areas in parallel |
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| 05:12.34 | tarzeau | full? you want to be able spot the right faulty memory module |
| 05:12.51 | tarzeau | it doesn't matter if it's a full one or not. you only want to get the thing fixed, no? |
| 05:13.25 | tarzeau | and you run it because you run into problems or because you're bored? |
| 05:13.48 | echeveria | I'm trying to absolutely rule out memory corruption for causing checksum errors in a ZFS set. memtester in userland for ~24 hours passes. |
| 05:14.13 | tarzeau | echeveria: and you test all your memory? then it's not your memory |
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| 05:14.33 | tarzeau | do you have radiation or other radio stuff near the computer? |
| 05:14.48 | tarzeau | how often do you get checksum errors? |
| 05:15.01 | tarzeau | isn't nuc the cheap intel low power hardware? |
| 05:16.10 | echeveria | it only runs on the NUC. it doesn't run on a thinkpad, or a fairly well specced server. short of replacing the HBA card in it, there's not a lot else that could be causing tens of checksum errors a day in ZFS. |
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| 05:16.38 | echeveria | yeah, I need to replace the memory with ECC, but in the mean time I'm very curious to find the root cause. |
| 05:16.58 | tarzeau | echeveria: and zfs with debian and linux, versions? |
| 05:17.27 | tarzeau | echeveria: so on the NUC you don't have checksum errors, but on the thinkpad you do? |
| 05:17.46 | tarzeau | and it's not the disks? |
| 05:18.46 | echeveria | no. NUC boots into memtest86. thinkpad boots to a black screen. server boots to a black screen. both devices failing have very different graphics outputs (Intel i7M, AMD RYZEN). |
| 05:19.59 | echeveria | I suspect this is something to do with EFI, but doesn't sound like there's anything obvious I'm not doing. |
| 05:20.15 | tarzeau | echeveria: and you tried both memtest86 and memtest86+ ? |
| 05:20.19 | echeveria | yup. |
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| 05:20.45 | tarzeau | echeveria: consult upstream or debian via https://bugs.debian.org/memtest86+ and/or https://bugs.debian.org/memtest86 |
| 05:21.28 | tarzeau | echeveria: my report from 2006: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=402718 |
| 05:21.30 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/402718 in memtest86+ (open): «memtest86+ shows black screen with cursor»; severity: normal; opened: 2006-12-12; last modified: 2008-04-25. |
| 05:21.47 | tarzeau | echeveria: get the source and have fun debugging :) |
| 05:22.13 | tarzeau | your best chance. if user space memtester does not show errors, i'd saychance is 99% memtest86* won't find one either |
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| 05:34.03 | echeveria | will file. |
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| 05:49.53 | agio | hi, does anyone know if the certbot package in repo's is considered new enough? or is it better to use a newer version from certbot.org directly? |
| 05:50.25 | agio | specifically I mean Version: 0.28.0-1~deb9u1 (from stretch archive) |
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| 05:53.06 | Unit193 | The only version problems I see are reported in bug #888703, which indicate 0.10 is too old and 0.21 is needed, which 0.28 most certainly covers. |
| 05:53.07 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/888703 in certbot (open): «certbot: Fails to renew certificate - too old»; severity: normal; opened: 2018-01-28; last modified: 2019-01-22. |
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| 05:56.00 | agio | thanks yes, the backports version doesn't seem too much newer either, it's: 0.28.0-1~bpo9+1 |
| 05:56.53 | agio | so it looks like its still the same upstream code, and may in fact contain no other updates ? |
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| 06:01.51 | fling | jmcnaught: Dark-Jedi: is it fine to just remove iceweasel and install firefox? |
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| 06:06.43 | fling | I switched all the sid to buster a while ago and still no issues! |
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| 06:08.54 | storgance | Holy moly |
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| 07:40.40 | agio | hi, does any know how I can find out about the polkit bug in the context of debians apt repo's? i.e. what the bug is, which packages version are vulnerable, which are fixed etc? |
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| 08:38.14 | KOJIbKA | Hi all using Stretch with Gnome installed on old Toshiba notebook I can't copy anything - neither file nor text by Ctrl+C shortcut key. The whole system logs off and Gnome session is terminated as I copy anything with this shortcut. Why is that and how to change default keyboard behavior to avoid it? |
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| 08:39.53 | fling | KOJIbKA: how do you login? gdm? |
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| 08:40.07 | KOJIbKA | fling: yes |
| 08:41.31 | KOJIbKA | And upon applying the keyboard shortcut I got reversed to it |
| 08:42.07 | KOJIbKA | Is it a bug? |
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| 09:09.30 | KOJIbKA | fling: how to figure it out? |
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| 09:13.41 | KOJIbKA | fling: well it's empty |
| 09:14.05 | KOJIbKA | I mean the log file is not present |
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| 10:01.39 | plantroon | I locked the password of root account (via passwd -l root) and now I can't use key-based authentication. What the .. :( |
| 10:02.04 | plantroon | has this happened to anybody yet? |
| 10:02.57 | blackflow | plantroon: that's normal. ssh won't allow login to locked accounts. I _think_ it's PAM related, not sure |
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| 10:04.28 | plantroon | single user mode doesn't work either :( neither via single init=/bin/sh, nor systemd rescue or emergency mode :( |
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| 10:05.24 | petn-randall | plantroon: Why would init=/bin/sh not work? |
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| 10:05.45 | petn-randall | That completely bypasses any PAM. |
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| 10:06.18 | plantroon | says cannot open access to console the root access is locked |
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| 10:07.29 | petn-randall | plantroon: What OS release are you running? |
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| 10:07.40 | plantroon | stretch |
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| 10:12.45 | blackflow | I wonder why people think locking out root like that makes any sense. Wanna disallow root login over ssh? Use AllowUsers or AllowGroups to specifically allow your sudoer to login (which then denies all else). do not disallow root login on the console unless you want grief like this. |
| 10:13.09 | blackflow | (hell, use PermitRootLogin directive too! it has a nice "without-password" option too) |
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| 10:22.45 | plantroon | from man passwd -l: Note that this does not disable the account. The user may still be able to login using another authentication token (e.g. an SSH key). |
| 10:22.53 | plantroon | I dunno :( |
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| 10:25.13 | blackflow | plantroon: disable PAM and try (UsePAM=no) |
| 10:25.40 | blackflow | as a test. it's PAM doing this. |
| 10:26.32 | plantroon | actually PAM is disabled if I remember correctly |
| 10:26.56 | plantroon | I have no access to the server. Single user mode doesn't work, ssh doesn't work :D I'll have to use a rescue USB |
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| 10:27.27 | blackflow | plantroon: please define "doesn't work" |
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| 10:28.59 | plantroon | when I boot with the following parameters: single init=/bin/sh, it says "cannot open access to console the root access is locked " |
| 10:31.34 | blackflow | hrm.... https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=802211 |
| 10:31.35 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/802211 in systemd (forwarded, fixed-upstream): «systemd: rescue.service fails if root password is not set, needs sulogin --force»; severity: important; opened: 2015-10-18; last modified: 2019-01-19. |
| 10:32.29 | blackflow | but that's for the rescue service. for bin/sh init... I suppose it's still trying to open the tty and something something PAM and poof you're done. like I said, lots of grief, zero gain when locking root account... |
| 10:33.02 | blackflow | (done = cooked, goof'd, no dice) |
| 10:33.39 | plantroon | I see that now xD but generally I have no need to set root pw on any machines. If things go wrong, I just redeploy |
| 10:33.56 | blackflow | then redeploy this :) |
| 10:34.14 | plantroon | yeah that's what I'll do it seems |
| 10:34.25 | plantroon | but I wanted to go through this learning experience |
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| 10:35.31 | blackflow | ubuntu locks out root by default. one of dumbest advices and default configs a FOSS distro could do, in the past 30 years. |
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| 10:35.58 | plantroon | why ? :( |
| 10:36.04 | blackflow | unfortunately that spread like fire in a papermill and people picking up the advice even unrelated to ubuntu |
| 10:36.07 | plantroon | I actually like having a separate admin user |
| 10:36.19 | blackflow | separate admin user has nothing to do with locking root |
| 10:36.33 | plantroon | but that's what ubuntu does, no? It gives another user sudo rights |
| 10:36.35 | blackflow | I do separate admin user. but root always has a pass I can `su -l` to if needed, or login via console. |
| 10:36.44 | blackflow | locking root has ZERO security gain |
| 10:36.53 | plantroon | true |
| 10:36.55 | blackflow | non-root login into sudoer has MARGINAL security gain |
| 10:37.39 | blackflow | plantroon: well see that's the problem. not all subsystems of a GNU/Linux distro will care about sudo |
| 10:37.56 | blackflow | infact, sudo is ONLY (ONLY!) relevant for interactive command line |
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| 10:39.57 | koollman | blackflow: I don't consider it a bad decision, but it's usually badly implemented, like single-mode not testing correctly for root locked-out account |
| 10:40.52 | blackflow | koollman: unless you encrypt the disks, total inability to log in as root has ZERO benefit. |
| 10:41.18 | koollman | that's just too strongly absolute statement to be true :) |
| 10:42.03 | koollman | if you don't encrypt the disk, putting a password on root isn't very useful either, so ... :) |
| 10:42.18 | blackflow | it's not. again, using a non-root administrative sudoer does not conflict with root having A password set |
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| 10:42.36 | Haxxa | I moved my Debian Server to the alcohol cupboard, seems like a fitting place for it. Now when I have a HDD Fail I have the perfect solution ;) https://photos.app.goo.gl/zaAAN1y7jsJaptbw6 |
| 10:42.38 | blackflow | name one vector where locking out root helps in any meaningufl way |
| 10:42.59 | blackflow | with remote access, you can disable root login with other means. with console access, if the attacker is at your console, it's game over. |
| 10:43.09 | plantroon | even if you do encrypt the disk, the password on root has no point imo :D :D |
| 10:43.10 | koollman | blackflow: one less password that can be found if it leaks out |
| 10:43.17 | blackflow | wants access to the drives? boots into USB, mounts disks (hence the "if not FDE") and does whatever. |
| 10:43.33 | koollman | I mean, I do set passwords for root, but just because I don't have another decent alternative currently |
| 10:43.37 | blackflow | koollman: that's not attack vector |
| 10:43.39 | koollman | they are hard and unique |
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| 10:44.43 | blackflow | Haxxa: you've got one big flaw there. instead of being chilled, your booze is now lukewarm |
| 10:45.21 | blackflow | koollman: strong root password solves all those things you mentioned. going one step further and locking it? solves nothing. |
| 10:45.58 | blackflow | I'll correct myself: it solves the lazy admin's getting-out-of-bed-blocker aka "haz to think about and set a root pass too!" |
| 10:46.05 | koollman | blackflow: it is functionnaly equivalent, with the added benefit that there is a guaranteed impossibility to login as root even if something is not configured correctly |
| 10:46.34 | blackflow | obvs it's not functionally equivalent. with locked root, any subsystem consulting PAM will say "Nope". With strong pass, it will allow access. |
| 10:46.48 | koollman | which is a feature, for me :) |
| 10:46.49 | blackflow | it'll say Nope even if YOU say "But I'm root! Your God! Here's the pass!" |
| 10:47.02 | blackflow | shrugs. |
| 10:47.09 | Haxxa | true I should invest in MOAR PC FANS! |
| 10:47.19 | blackflow | if it works for you? go ahead. but in general, it's a dumb advice. |
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| 10:47.51 | koollman | I mean it is exactl why I want root to be locked. no way to become root without going through very specific apps. and in particular not just regular pam. |
| 10:47.51 | ayekat | also, "if things are not configured correctly", a lot else can go wrong, too |
| 10:48.21 | koollman | but ... I cannot do that currently because it causes too much trouble, so I do set a very strong root password that I do not know, on my machines, and that I can find with an algorithm :) |
| 10:48.25 | koollman | works well enough |
| 10:48.34 | blackflow | koollman: right and that's the false sense of security thinking locked root will do anything good over a strong root pass. so many vulnerabilities exist that can elevate privilege and laugh at your configurations. |
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| 10:49.04 | ayekat | and if a potential attacker has physical access to the machine (under the assumption that everything is configured correctly) having a root password set or not won't change anything either |
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| 10:49.16 | ayekat | so +1 for setting a (strong) root password to avoid trouble |
| 10:49.18 | koollman | blackflow: I still consider 'no usable password' stronger than 'one usable password'. I do agree that it's a small difference if the password is strong and the hash is good |
| 10:50.43 | toolz | any cacti user around? |
| 10:51.26 | ayekat | !ask |
| 10:51.26 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 10:51.32 | blackflow | koollman: mathematically? it is, yes, stronger. in practice the gain is insignificant. Like getting one more frame per second in a game that already does over 60 |
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| 10:53.55 | koollman | blackflow: still not 'ZERO benefit' :) |
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| 10:54.09 | blackflow | it's also very bad advice because newbie users think they "don't have root account". I've seen this over and over in #ubuntu. they think they're safe as there's no root at all, which is completely false. so many reasons, not just insignificant gain, why I think it's a very dumb advice. |
| 10:54.11 | koollman | and that's assuming all software is working as designed, of course |
| 10:54.26 | toolz | how do I export last 6 hours in cacti using graph_image.php - I upgraded to latest version of cacti 1.2.2 and I only got last 24 hours no matter what end/start graph I choose |
| 10:54.53 | blackflow | koollman: as long as you're aware of it, that's okay. so I said that as a general, globally appliacable advice, it's a bad one. |
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| 10:55.13 | koollman | blackflow: for this part I am not sure how good or bad it is. no password is not no account, I do know that perfectly. I assume it can be confusing for new users though, right |
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| 10:55.51 | blackflow | yup. |
| 10:56.02 | koollman | I also think default using with full sudo access is dangerous, if you consider ubuntu defaults :) |
| 10:56.07 | koollman | s/using/user/ |
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| 10:59.54 | FinalX | koollman: for a long time they even allowed password logins over ssh, with the ubuntu user not having a password in the default bootstrap; leaving it completeely open to the world, and anyone could just log in without a password and become root without a password through sudo |
| 10:59.58 | FinalX | it was horrid :p |
| 11:00.04 | FinalX | ..they changeed that behaviour now, tho |
| 11:00.30 | koollman | well, everyone makes mistake, although that one sound interesting :) |
| 11:00.48 | FinalX | yeah, not so much when you spool up an lxc container and then having it owned in less than 2 min |
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| 11:01.15 | colo-work | nice |
| 11:01.17 | FinalX | their excuse was that the template had a user/pass parameter for the default user and that it's your own fault if you don't supply them |
| 11:01.28 | colo-work | that's the kind of "public" cloud I can appreciate |
| 11:01.42 | FinalX | what does that have to do with cloud? |
| 11:02.14 | FinalX | it's got everything to do with ubuntu's default settings; creating an all-powerful user, without password, and allowing those to log in remotely |
| 11:02.22 | colo-work | you'll have to use your imagination a tiny bit to make the leap |
| 11:02.24 | FinalX | cloud or no cloud |
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| 11:06.46 | EdePopede | there seem to be an ongoing competition for some years to find the most ridiculous method to mess up user/pass authentication. |
| 11:07.01 | blackflow | hence the dumb advice. misplaced, ignorant beliefe that caused more grief. want block root login over ssh? "PermitRootLogin no" done. |
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| 11:10.30 | FinalX | blackflow: not done, at all. Ubuntu had it set to prohobit-password, which is great. but then adds a password-less "ubuntu"-user with sudo NOPASSWD rights, able to do *everything* as root anyway, and not having PasswordAuthentication disabled allowed the whole world to log in. |
| 11:10.37 | FinalX | blackflow: there's more than one road that leads to Rome.. ;) |
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| 11:11.15 | blackflow | uhm... well yes, if you change "no" to anything else. with "no", there's no root login over ssh. |
| 11:11.30 | FinalX | that's what I'm saying |
| 11:11.31 | blackflow | pam, no pam, passwd, nopasswd, ! or *, doesn't matter. |
| 11:11.37 | FinalX | you don't *NEED* to log in as root directly |
| 11:11.52 | FinalX | you can just log in as ubuntu@machine with *NO* password and *become* root without using a password |
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| 11:12.00 | FinalX | and you're still root@machine. |
| 11:12.20 | blackflow | what I was trying to say is, that their belief in creating a more secure system by messing with root password, did more grief. if they wanted to prevent root login over ssh, they should've only set PermitRootLogin, and be done with it, messing with nothing else. |
| 11:12.23 | FinalX | setting it to "no" in sshd_config will not prevent you from logging in as a mortal user and becoming root |
| 11:12.42 | ksk | FinalX: oh, you are also in here? morning ;) |
| 11:12.45 | FinalX | in fact, root's password is even locked in the same install, you can't log in as root |
| 11:12.49 | FinalX | morning ;) |
| 11:12.52 | blackflow | and thus they went on to mess with passwd and caused more problems. |
| 11:13.33 | blackflow | but wait, ubuntu had NOPASSWD sudoer line in the past? |
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| 11:25.32 | ksk | not sure what you are talking about, but on -my- ubuntu system I dont have any NOPASSWD sudoer lines ;) |
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| 11:30.57 | ksk | btw, did eh, the default behaviour regarding "copying things on your terminal with your mouse" of vim change in debian some time ago? (like my new boxes seem to enter VISUAL mode automagicly if I try to copy anything) |
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| 11:32.43 | ksk | I configmanagmented it away, but still sometimes accounter it on 3rd party servers. |
| 11:32.55 | ksk | *encounter |
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| 11:48.34 | blackflow | ksk: there's no shortage of foot shootage in linux usage :) |
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| 11:49.18 | ksk | just interested why this was deemed a good change, cuz I'm always like raging if this happens :D |
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| 11:54.24 | blackflow | for the same reason systemd-resolved is a good default, netplan.io is totally not a 15th standard and thus good for you, and infinite rewrites of the installer is NotABadThing(tm). I promised I'd stop bashing 'buntu, so make your own conclusions about competency of 'buntu devs. Oh, shoot, I promissed...... :) |
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| 12:05.27 | tarzeau | blackflow: you can easily get rid of netplan.io, we're just removing it, be done |
| 12:05.55 | tarzeau | my biggest issue is systemd-networkd with renamed network interfaces. i hate it |
| 12:06.18 | tarzeau | blackflow: likewise for snap. it's ugly, same with flatpak, appimage |
| 12:06.58 | blackflow | tarzeau: I know. We were discussing defaults and changes. |
| 12:07.54 | tarzeau | ah, did i say i hate systemd? |
| 12:08.15 | tarzeau | and the new ifconfig, netstat? |
| 12:08.23 | tarzeau | the linux proprietary i mean |
| 12:09.17 | blackflow | "proprietary" |
| 12:09.31 | tarzeau | well it's retarded. tell me what you want |
| 12:09.49 | tarzeau | there was a cheatsheet of changing mac addresses, all were similar, except windows |
| 12:09.55 | tarzeau | but now linux also belongs to the shit |
| 12:10.10 | blackflow | BSDs are that way ----> |
| 12:10.10 | FinalX | tarzeau: you can fix the renaming, though, and netplan allows you to rename interfaces based on hwaddress as well |
| 12:10.11 | tarzeau | glad there's debian gnu/kfreebsd |
| 12:10.21 | tarzeau | FinalX: it's not like i don't know that |
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| 12:10.34 | tarzeau | blackflow: i'm an NeXT/NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP guy... |
| 12:11.08 | tarzeau | so looking forward to a microkernel where drivers can die without bringing down the system: plan9, barrelfish, minix, sel4 |
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| 12:11.29 | koollman | hurd ? :) |
| 12:11.35 | tarzeau | haha |
| 12:11.44 | tarzeau | 32bit, no sound drivers? in 2019? |
| 12:11.54 | tarzeau | maybe reactos ? |
| 12:11.58 | FinalX | 32? 16, of course. |
| 12:12.14 | tarzeau | and ext2, haha |
| 12:12.14 | koollman | I don't think reactos has separate drivers. I could be wrong |
| 12:12.26 | tarzeau | koollman: you can have it on fat or btrfs meanwhile |
| 12:12.34 | tarzeau | and i like UFS2 |
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| 12:12.37 | tarzeau | btrfs and xfs |
| 12:13.39 | jelly | imagines tarzeau as the last standing Mail.app user |
| 12:13.51 | blackflow | tarzeau: but not ZFS? :) |
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| 12:14.19 | blackflow | "linux is shit" but "I like btrfs"..... gotta get your priorities straight :) |
| 12:14.36 | blackflow | oopsie, sorry for my klingon. |
| 12:15.30 | tarzeau | jelly: GNUMail.app |
| 12:15.51 | tarzeau | blackflow: i hate the linux OOM |
| 12:16.20 | tarzeau | blackflow: if my workspace would not depend on linux specific software (binaries), i'd switch to debian gnu/kfreebsd right away |
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| 12:17.41 | koollman | tarzeau: well, you can somewhat disable the oom, even if it's still not perfect |
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| 12:17.45 | blackflow | I wouldn't. just fresh example. the freebsd kernel hard crahes (with nothing logged) with a badly seated SATA cable. |
| 12:17.51 | koollman | (I do hate it too) |
| 12:17.53 | blackflow | linux at least logged ata errors |
| 12:18.21 | blackflow | took me ove a week to figure out why the F is the freebsd server hard crashing like that, with no immediate software based hardware checks showing anything |
| 12:18.25 | tarzeau | koollman: how? |
| 12:18.37 | tarzeau | koollman: i'm using OOM=kernel panic, kernel panic=reboot |
| 12:18.52 | blackflow | reseated sata cable, poof crashes gone. if anything "belongs to the <feces>", it's that |
| 12:18.59 | tarzeau | simply because i don't trust the software anymore after it randomly kills a process. esp. on multi user systems |
| 12:19.24 | tarzeau | blackflow: on minix, the hd driver would go berserk, and you'd just restart/start that |
| 12:19.26 | blackflow | tarzeau: you can adjust the oom priorities. OOM is good. locking up entire OS because your kernel doesn't have it and is out of RAM? not good. |
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| 12:19.40 | jelly | blackflow: wrong! |
| 12:19.45 | tarzeau | blackflow: never worked for me. i have it reboot. done |
| 12:19.45 | blackflow | right! |
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| 12:20.12 | jelly | OOM default behaviour is absolutely unpredictable, I prefer whole box rebooting than some crucial process dying |
| 12:20.14 | koollman | tarzeau: setting sys.vm.overcommit_ratio to something high enough (like 75 or 85), then sys.vm.overcommit_memory to 2 |
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| 12:20.34 | koollman | I would rather have malloc return null than process being killed :) |
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| 12:20.53 | koollman | the trouble is there are not good memory abstraction for many things used nowadays |
| 12:20.56 | jelly | koollman: show me apps that deal with that grafuclly |
| 12:21.05 | tarzeau | koollman: what if your software doesn't check the malloc return value?? |
| 12:21.09 | blackflow | jelly: which kinda amounts to the same DoS situation doesn't it. :) because the only way out is "add more RAM" or "moar swap" (bad) or "cgroup limits so you can control who does what". |
| 12:21.10 | koollman | jelly: postgresql, mysql, php, apache, ... |
| 12:21.19 | tarzeau | jelly: exactly, THAT is the point. likewise with writes to files! |
| 12:21.30 | koollman | jelly: if it doesn't, it crahes. I'm fine with that. it is predictable and debuggable |
| 12:21.47 | tarzeau | blackflow: we got 1.5TB + 2TB SSD SWAP, people run out of memory |
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| 12:21.58 | koollman | the trouble is that they cannot handle it gracefully if oom is involved |
| 12:22.07 | blackflow | tarzeau: right, so linux gives you that control. FreeBSD does too, kinda, with jails and rctl. Other BSDs I don't think so |
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| 12:22.53 | blackflow | koollman: but <random> process crashing (and oom is logged so you know why!) amounts to the same as whole server rebooting: it's a DoS. |
| 12:23.01 | tarzeau | i like zram thouch. macos has it default since years |
| 12:23.08 | koollman | blackflow: my point was : disable oom |
| 12:23.10 | blackflow | in my case I'd prefer it NOT boot because I use FDE and would then have to whitelist the server for reboot |
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| 12:23.21 | tarzeau | blackflow: fde? |
| 12:23.26 | blackflow | full disk encryption |
| 12:23.35 | koollman | blackflow: then it's not a random process crashing, the failing process is the one that cannot handle lack of memory |
| 12:23.38 | tarzeau | dict said: Full Duplex Ethernet (ethernet) |
| 12:23.40 | koollman | much easier to debug |
| 12:23.46 | koollman | or avoid |
| 12:23.52 | blackflow | remote servers are encrypted, and initramfs needs that server whitelisted with a key so it may reboot -- or unlocked over ssh |
| 12:24.10 | jelly | koollman: incorrect, the kernel chooses which process to kill |
| 12:24.12 | blackflow | koollman: no I think OOM will headshot any random processnot just the one that wanted moar RAM |
| 12:24.25 | blackflow | BUT.... oom priorities can adjust taht |
| 12:24.25 | tarzeau | jelly: and often gets the wrong one |
| 12:24.40 | blackflow | you can say which processes are more critical and should be considered less for a boom headshot. |
| 12:24.46 | tarzeau | blackflow: SHOULD I CARE? |
| 12:24.52 | koollman | I will repeat then: setting sys.vm.overcommit_ratio to something high enough (like 75 or 85), then sys.vm.overcommit_memory to 2 -> disable most cases for oom |
| 12:24.58 | koollman | no oom, no randomness :) |
| 12:24.58 | tarzeau | blackflow: the kernel is not got to shoot down kernel processes |
| 12:25.00 | tarzeau | EVER! |
| 12:25.11 | blackflow | tarzeau: only you can answer that. just don't make it into an absolute, uncorrectible problem because it's not |
| 12:25.39 | blackflow | koollman: also oom_score |
| 12:25.41 | tarzeau | i'm sorry i really belive it is |
| 12:25.51 | koollman | blackflow: don't need it with sys.vm.overcommit_memory=2 |
| 12:26.02 | blackflow | tarzeau: that's just your belief then. |
| 12:26.08 | koollman | because ... no overcommit. no situation for out of ram handling |
| 12:26.22 | blackflow | overcommit is okay if you know what you're doing. |
| 12:26.34 | tarzeau | some use mmap not malloc |
| 12:26.38 | tarzeau | how does the kernel handle that? |
| 12:26.40 | blackflow | but indeed, plenty of ways to ensure your server is quite stable and OOM works FOR you, not against you. |
| 12:26.45 | koollman | yeah. but I don't trust most programs to know what they are doing :) |
| 12:26.59 | blackflow | noobs confusing lack of knowledge of how to do that, with "this is <feces> I hates it, filthy hobbitses!" |
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| 12:27.45 | blackflow | koollman: thus systemd and its great ability to expose kernel features through unit files. confinement, cgroups, seccomp, resource limits, and you control the situation. |
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| 12:35.52 | koollman | blackflow: nah :) |
| 12:36.32 | koollman | blackflow: maybe you could make this point for s6 without sarcasm. because the source code is minimalistic and readable, and the separation of concern is very strong :) |
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| 12:41.18 | blackflow | koollman: s6 could be the bestest thing since sliced bread but I'm not gonna rip out the most critical component. systemd was opted as the default init. I'll make the most use of it as possible. but yes I agree, technically, its implementation is borderline criminal |
| 12:41.46 | koollman | I totally would. and will. |
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| 12:42.26 | blackflow | koollman: which is good. more users = more bug reports, leading to it becoming a viable, usable alternative one day |
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| 13:25.10 | StucKman | I have a couple of md raid1 devices who report a missing disk: https://paste.centos.org/view/e2bf79aa however, if I scan the disks with mdadm -vv --examine --scan the disk in the raid says the eaary is one disk missing, while the other says the array is complete: https://paste.centos.org/view/cf9ba77a a) am I reading that output correctly? b) how do I make sure it's all right? |
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| 13:36.53 | ChrisH | StucKman: replace disk with partition in your sentence. There is not a disk sdn missing but partitions (guessed names) sdn1 and sdn3. sdn3 has updated time in Janauart, looks like the mirror is offline for a longer time. |
| 13:37.12 | StucKman | ChrisH: yes, sorry |
| 13:37.35 | StucKman | hmm, I have an idea why |
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| 13:37.50 | StucKman | I think I just confused that one part thinks the array is fine |
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| 13:38.14 | ChrisH | reattach them and you should be done. |
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| 14:00.13 | essdeeay | Is there a way of finding empty dirs whilst excluding dot files? What I have at the moment is: "find . -type d -empty -mtime +93" but of course the empty parameter never works because of the dot files. |
| 14:00.30 | greycat | You'll have to script it yourself. |
| 14:00.55 | greycat | There isn't a find builtin primitive for "empty except for dot files", and hell, even -empty is a GNUism. |
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| 14:02.46 | ber532k | I'm having trouble getting a wifi connection with rtl8192cu driver for realtek (on stretch). Running journalctl reveals I always get disconnected just after the connection has been established. Any help would be appreciated. |
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| 14:05.58 | essdeeay | greycat, Thanks - I'll do that ;) |
| 14:06.18 | StucKman | ChrisH: yes, thanks |
| 14:07.18 | manticorpus | Hi, does the execution of the script : https://pastebin.com/puqZfwgj , can be called multiples times from multiples process (or multiples times from the same software). My question is about the "safety of $?" |
| 14:07.25 | StucKman | essdeeay: find . -type d -nlink 2 or somethong on those lines? |
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| 14:08.06 | greycat | StucKman: that won't tell him whether Dir contains "foo" or ".foo" and he wants to act differently in those two cases. |
| 14:08.22 | manticorpus | ber532k: I have test this device one time, and give up. I never found any way to get a working situation (was with a old kernel like 3.14) |
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| 14:09.35 | ber532k | manticorpus: Discouraging, but thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll just look for a dongle then or something. |
| 14:10.13 | manticorpus | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:11.47 | AlexNagy | so recently I tried updating my tower from Windows 10 to Debian 9. It went swimmingly aside from the Linux driver for my ATI FirePro v5900 (it wouldn't load because the X server was too new, go figure). The default drivers for the card are horrible and so I downgraded to Windows. If I buy a pair of Quadro 5000s (the max my tower can support in its default configuration; linux driver here: https://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-amd64-304.43-driver.html |
| 14:11.47 | AlexNagy | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:12.03 | ber532k | manticorpus: sure, maybe an expert will show up who knows how to solve this ;) (frankly, I was surprised anyone even had experience with the same driver) |
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| 14:17.52 | ChrisH | AlexNagy: _I would try to stay away from ati-nvidia |
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| 14:18.29 | ChrisH | AlexNagy: _I_ would try to stay away from ati-nvidia modules, check https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo to determine which module you need. Maybe it was only the firmware module missing. |
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| 14:20.45 | DonK_KijotE | Hi |
| 14:21.54 | AlexNagy | ChrisH, I'll give that a look and maybe try on a spare drive instead of reinstalling my system at the start (the default driver really is crap, like, really really really bad). |
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| 14:26.42 | ssarah | hi, im trying to switch from ubuntu to debian, is there the equivalent of the "aditional drivers" thing for debian? |
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| 14:26.55 | ssarah | specifically im trying to install the nvidia and ati drivers |
| 14:27.04 | petn-randall | ssarah: What does the "additional drivers" thing do? |
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| 14:27.48 | petn-randall | ssarah: There is next to "main" a "contrib" and "non-free" section. The "non-free" section usually carries firmware needed for wifi cards, and also any non-free nvidia drivers. |
| 14:28.14 | ZEROF | ssarah: https://paste.lugons.org/?836cad002a12cdb6#Ox8g6mq+pPFxXx2L9OP6zsOiF8lwKATy5u0bIEBXSxo= |
| 14:28.19 | ZEROF | This will work for you |
| 14:28.21 | ssarah | petn-randall, that's in synaptic ? |
| 14:28.37 | ZEROF | For nvidia |
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| 14:28.42 | ssarah | ZEROF, sounds good |
| 14:28.44 | ssarah | :) |
| 14:28.49 | ssarah | for ati it's ati-driver ? |
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| 14:30.03 | ZEROF | ssarah: not really |
| 14:30.40 | ZEROF | apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree libgl1-mesa-dri xserver-xorg-video-ati |
| 14:30.47 | ZEROF | Will do the trick |
| 14:30.55 | petn-randall | !ati |
| 14:30.55 | dpkg | Where possible, most ATI/AMD graphics processing units are supported using the open source "radeon" driver on Debian systems by default, ask me about <radeon>. To install the proprietary "fglrx" driver, ask me about <fglrx>; installing this directly from amd.com (i.e. with the AMD Catalyst installer) is not supported in #debian, please go to #ati on irc.freenode.net. |
| 14:30.56 | ZEROF | But you can't use both in same time |
| 14:31.16 | ZEROF | :) |
| 14:31.31 | ZEROF | If you want to install ati, remove nvidia |
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| 14:31.56 | ssarah | thank you very much guys |
| 14:32.09 | ssarah | this is to play games |
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| 14:46.08 | AlexNagy | Is there any software available on Debian that y'all know of for use in an academic environment (such as browser lock-down to prevent cheating)? |
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| 14:48.59 | AlexNagy | I'm studying for various IT certs in a trade school, and my class is responsible for all the IT (with some exceptions) on campus and one of my projects is to find a way to repurpose aging hardware that won't be supported under Windows 10. I chose Debian over Ubuntu because of it's stability. |
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| 14:49.42 | AlexNagy | (and also because I'm somewhat familiar with it, having it used it long-term back many moons ago) |
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| 14:54.10 | rant | most people who are savvy arent going to use some lockdown browser, they'd just use a firewall |
| 14:54.43 | rant | trying to use an application level approach to this issue is far more cumbersome than a network level approach |
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| 14:55.09 | AlexNagy | I agree, but for some proctored tests, it's not an issue of what the most savvy solution is. |
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| 14:57.59 | AlexNagy | (and for some proctored exams, like those offered by CompTIA (for which my school is an accredited Pearson-Vue testing center and authorized academy partner), I don't think there is *any* Linux solution.) |
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| 14:59.34 | xand | AlexNagy: if you want to restrict website access then you can require use of a proxy that only allows certain URLs/domains |
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| 14:59.53 | rant | AlexNagy: https://github.com/eqsoft/seb https://github.com/eqsoft/seb2 |
| 14:59.54 | r3m1 | hello |
| 15:00.29 | AlexNagy | Thank you xand and rant (: Much appreciated, I will explore those avenues. |
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| 15:02.47 | r3m1 | I'm working with a Pi and raspbian... but didnt get much help with a routing question so I 'll give it a go here. I have a mobile modem connected to the pi and I am able to establish a ppp connexion and use this modem for internet. However I would like to be able to switch automatically to LAN if an ethernet cable is plugged in. I have seen that when I plug a network cable, DHCP gives my eth0 an IP and gateway. Also, a new default route is added and shows up |
| 15:02.47 | r3m1 | in route -n |
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| 15:03.36 | r3m1 | I want to know which process is responsible of adding the default route and possibly control this process to add the default route with an external script and not "automatically" |
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| 15:04.32 | black_13 | if you build and package from source of gstreamer would that allow you to have the dbg information and to step into the source |
| 15:04.44 | greycat | It could be network-manager, or an allow-hotplug line in /e/n/i, or a systemd thing. |
| 15:04.54 | greycat | Those are the 3 ways to configure network interfaces in Debian. |
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| 15:05.08 | greycat | Ask #raspbian for more details because we don't know how Raspbian does it. |
| 15:08.14 | r3m1 | greycat thanks. |
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| 15:24.01 | mason | greycat: FWIW, they appear to use ifupdown. |
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| 15:25.17 | greycat | then there's probably an allow-hotplug eth0 line in /etc/network/interfaces |
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| 15:31.31 | martian67| | Hello, I have a bare minimum hostapd config https://paste.debian.net/plain/1072089 with an Atheros AR9285 card |
| 15:31.40 | martian67| | its not showing up for any wifi clients |
| 15:32.00 | martian67| | i have installed firmware-atheros and rebooted |
| 15:32.24 | martian67| | hostapd reports no errors when run manually, but i still see nothing |
| 15:32.27 | martian67| | any clues here? |
| 15:32.42 | martian67| | this card works fine in other oses |
| 15:32.51 | martian67| | so its for 100% sure not a hardware issue |
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| 15:40.10 | martian67| | some -d output for hostapd https://paste.debian.net/plain/1072092 |
| 15:40.22 | martian67| | dosent seem to be any issues here |
| 15:40.35 | martian67| | but multiple other clients do not see it |
| 15:40.40 | sheen | Hi there, I have issues restoring VG with clonezilla, anyone experienced with this ? |
| 15:40.48 | martian67| | nor are any wifi APs showing up |
| 15:41.14 | martian67| | *nor are any wifi frames showing up when looking with airodump-ng on other devices |
| 15:41.52 | martian67| | this is on debian 9, latest updates |
| 15:42.05 | *** join/#debian lgbtperson (~gaytranny@216.189.154.9) |
| 15:42.19 | lgbtperson | hello. im a gay trans queer. i like anus sex. |
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| 15:42.47 | lgbtperson | !ops im a homo trans |
| 15:42.47 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: lgbtperson complains about a problem (see above) |
| 15:43.01 | lgbtperson | i like doing it in the bum hole |
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| 15:44.24 | Tenkawa | martian67|: do you have a machine that can run tcpdump? |
| 15:44.32 | *** mode/#debian [+o greycat] by ChanServ |
| 15:44.40 | *** mode/#debian [+q *!*@216.189.154.9] by greycat |
| 15:44.46 | martian67| | Tenkawa, the card dosent emit any wifi packets at all |
| 15:44.47 | *** mode/#debian [-o greycat] by greycat |
| 15:44.55 | Tenkawa | does it see the attempts ? |
| 15:44.55 | martian67| | but yes |
| 15:44.57 | Tenkawa | oh |
| 15:45.08 | Tenkawa | odd |
| 15:45.08 | martian67| | im looking on another machine with airodump-ng |
| 15:45.12 | martian67| | yeah it is |
| 15:45.41 | martian67| | like i said its for sure not a hardware issue |
| 15:45.44 | Tenkawa | oh |
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| 15:45.49 | Tenkawa | check rfkill |
| 15:45.53 | martian67| | because it works fine on other oses |
| 15:45.57 | martian67| | oh right, rfkill stupid crap |
| 15:46.38 | martian67| | Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no |
| 15:46.41 | martian67| | nope |
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| 15:46.45 | Tenkawa | darn |
| 15:46.57 | mason | greycat: pm? |
| 15:47.10 | Tenkawa | couldnt get that lucky eh? |
| 15:47.16 | martian67| | yeah :( |
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| 15:47.24 | martian67| | how do i tell if firmware actually loaded properly |
| 15:47.30 | phazon | lsmod |
| 15:47.32 | greycat | dmesg should show it being loaded |
| 15:47.37 | Tenkawa | dmesg | grep firmware |
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| 15:48.32 | martian67| | well it seems to at least be operational |
| 15:48.39 | martian67| | let me try connecting with it as a client |
| 15:48.46 | Tenkawa | ok |
| 15:49.29 | Tenkawa | ddid you set your crda too? |
| 15:49.56 | Tenkawa | not that i think that is required |
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| 15:50.22 | martian67| | i had it set before, didnt make any difference |
| 15:50.27 | Tenkawa | ok |
| 15:50.29 | martian67| | was just trying with a minimal config |
| 15:50.33 | Tenkawa | nod |
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| 15:50.40 | martian67| | dosent seem to be working as a client either... |
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| 15:51.56 | martian67| | seems i can at least scan WTF |
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| 16:05.40 | martian67| | seems like for whatever reason the card cant send packets under debian.. |
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| 16:06.51 | Tenkawa | what kind of card is this? |
| 16:07.00 | petn-randall | martian67|: How are you testing the client connection? |
| 16:07.10 | martian67| | Atheros AR9282 |
| 16:07.29 | martian67| | petn-randall, attempting to associate with the iw command, again, no packets are generated as verified from another machine |
| 16:08.23 | petn-randall | `iw` is not suitable to test client authentication, unless you know how to do the handshakes via CLI. I'd rather use network-manager to do this. |
| 16:08.34 | martian67| | there is no encryption |
| 16:08.55 | martian67| | but thats besides the point, there are literally no wifi packets being generated when i tell iw to associate |
| 16:09.01 | martian67| | network manager isnt going to fix that |
| 16:09.43 | petn-randall | You'd be surprised ... |
| 16:09.52 | Tenkawa | martian67|: run this test for me on the machine you are trying to test if you dont mind |
| 16:10.00 | martian67| | ok |
| 16:10.06 | Tenkawa | ifconfig interface up |
| 16:10.19 | martian67| | i have ip but yes |
| 16:10.20 | Tenkawa | tcpdump -n -i interface |
| 16:10.25 | Tenkawa | no |
| 16:10.27 | Tenkawa | ifconfig |
| 16:10.29 | Tenkawa | not ip |
| 16:10.39 | Tenkawa | it had it has to be ifconfig |
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| 16:10.50 | martian67| | why is ip link set wlp5s0 up not ok? |
| 16:10.59 | Tenkawa | if you dont have it installed install the utility |
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| 16:11.10 | martian67| | trying to keep gigabytes of crap off of this router, hence me not wanting network manager |
| 16:11.18 | jelly | judd: file bin/ifconfig |
| 16:11.21 | judd | Search for bin/ifconfig in stretch/amd64: net-tools: sbin/ifconfig |
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| 16:11.33 | jelly | net-tools isn't gigabytes |
| 16:11.37 | Tenkawa | ifconfig is like kb |
| 16:11.52 | Tenkawa | and VERY useful |
| 16:12.06 | martian67| | ip can do everything it can, but whatever, installing it |
| 16:12.09 | jelly | (though I wonder the same thing as martian67| wrt ip link set dev ... up) |
| 16:12.23 | jelly | martian67|: it uses slightly different kernel APIs |
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| 16:12.48 | Tenkawa | jelly: ip changed the syntax for us old school geeks |
| 16:13.00 | jelly | Tenkawa: but we know the new syntax |
| 16:13.01 | martian67| | so im running tcpdump what do you want to know Tenkawa this isnt gonna be too useful if it isnt associated :) |
| 16:13.04 | Tenkawa | yaya |
| 16:13.07 | Tenkawa | heehee |
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| 16:13.38 | Tenkawa | martian67|: now... try to send something through the int |
| 16:13.50 | Tenkawa | with it being forced up |
| 16:13.54 | martian67| | how, its not associated... |
| 16:13.54 | Tenkawa | it shouldnt matter |
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| 16:14.03 | Tenkawa | it will see any attempts |
| 16:14.24 | Tenkawa | you can attempt a manual scan |
| 16:14.30 | Tenkawa | with iw scan |
| 16:14.53 | Tenkawa | iw scanning or whatever that command is |
| 16:14.57 | Tenkawa | iwlist |
| 16:15.08 | Tenkawa | iwlist dev scanning |
| 16:15.11 | Tenkawa | or something |
| 16:16.23 | martian67| | no packets |
| 16:16.31 | martian67| | it does scan however, i see APs |
| 16:16.48 | martian67| | i dont think tcpdump is capable of seeing 802.11 management frame stuff |
| 16:17.01 | Tenkawa | intrso the nic does at least work |
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| 16:17.05 | Tenkawa | er s |
| 16:17.07 | Tenkawa | so |
| 16:17.14 | martian67| | well it can receive packets.. |
| 16:17.18 | Tenkawa | yes |
| 16:17.22 | martian67| | seems to have problems generating them somehow |
| 16:17.25 | Tenkawa | the transmit might be blown |
| 16:17.29 | jelly | martian67|: where's your dmesg? |
| 16:18.50 | jelly | is the antenna connected? :-) |
| 16:18.56 | martian67| | yes |
| 16:19.01 | martian67| | as i said it works on other OSes |
| 16:19.05 | martian67| | as both client and AP |
| 16:19.06 | martian67| | http://sprunge.us/d5Xeb4 |
| 16:20.56 | martian67| | seems like it has managed to associate odd |
| 16:21.05 | martian67| | but i attempted to run dhclient, and nothing |
| 16:21.16 | Tenkawa | you have a bridge setup |
| 16:21.25 | Tenkawa | that changes matters |
| 16:21.32 | martian67| | yes the wifi card is not bridged however |
| 16:21.35 | martian67| | at least not yet |
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| 16:22.04 | Tenkawa | well if you look at the dmesg its grabbing the card |
| 16:22.08 | martian67| | it was on boot, but its removed now |
| 16:22.40 | martian67| | ill try rebooting without adding it at all |
| 16:22.47 | Tenkawa | ok |
| 16:22.48 | jelly | hmph, dmesg output looks pretty much the same as on my tp-link archer c5 router with the same card for 2.4GHz |
| 16:22.54 | martian67| | none of this should effect operation as an AP |
| 16:22.56 | martian67| | fwiw |
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| 16:23.16 | martian67| | yes its very odd |
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| 16:23.52 | jelly | martian67|: eh... you could try installing 4.19 kernel from stretch-backports, see if it does anything different |
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| 16:24.44 | jelly | after checking no-bridge setup |
| 16:24.53 | martian67| | no difference |
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| 16:25.01 | martian67| | ok how do i do that jelly |
| 16:26.12 | Tenkawa | just hopes to get up to 5.0 with his new Nvidia setup without too much pain |
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| 16:27.00 | Tenkawa | the test kernel compiled <8 minutes but wouldnt run x.. |
| 16:27.13 | greycat | 'But I'd like to point out (yet again) that we don't do feature-based releases, and that "5.0" doesn't mean anything more than that the 4.x numbers started getting big enough that I ran out of fingers and toes.' |
| 16:27.33 | martian67| | version numbers are arbitrary human constructs |
| 16:27.36 | greycat | https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/3/3/236 |
| 16:27.38 | Tenkawa | greycat: I like running developmenmt code |
| 16:27.39 | martian67| | news at 11 |
| 16:27.53 | Tenkawa | greycat: dont preach to me |
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| 16:28.04 | martian67| | debates about semantic definitions are the worst thing on the internet |
| 16:28.32 | Tenkawa | I was just stating todays task |
| 16:28.43 | martian67| | wasnt a reply to you |
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| 16:28.57 | Tenkawa | martian67|: no.. I know |
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| 16:32.25 | Tenkawa | martian67|: out of odd curiosity do you have any open board slots to move that card to? |
| 16:32.32 | martian67| | no |
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| 16:32.50 | Tenkawa | shouldnt matter but I'm reaching |
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| 16:33.20 | martian67| | what is the difference between signed and unsigned kernel images |
| 16:33.52 | martian67| | linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64-unsigned - Linux 4.19 for 64-bit PCs |
| 16:33.52 | martian67| | linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 - Linux 4.19 for 64-bit PCs (signed) |
| 16:33.59 | Tenkawa | not sure what the "full" diiference is |
| 16:34.21 | Tenkawa | btw... what do you get (pastebin it) if you ifconfig -a |
| 16:34.22 | towo` | you cant boot such unsignte kernel with securebott enabled |
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| 16:34.23 | petn-randall | martian67|: signed kernel can be used with secure boot. |
| 16:34.38 | Tenkawa | towo`: ahhhh |
| 16:34.49 | Tenkawa | good to know |
| 16:34.55 | Tenkawa | thats helpfu; |
| 16:34.56 | petn-randall | martian67|: It also means that you can change it without breaking the signature, though, as it gets signed by Debian's key that is signed by Microsoft. |
| 16:34.58 | Tenkawa | er helpful |
| 16:35.01 | petn-randall | *CAN'T |
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| 16:35.12 | martian67| | ah that garbage |
| 16:35.17 | Tenkawa | indeed |
| 16:35.19 | martian67| | figured it was something related to that, thanks |
| 16:35.46 | petn-randall | You can sign your own kernels by adding the key to your UEFI storage, but that's extra steps you might or might not want to do. |
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| 16:36.07 | martian67| | its completely irrelivant to me, i use core boot |
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| 16:38.15 | martian67| | depressing how hard floss people rolled over on that however |
| 16:38.39 | martian67| | cant wait until microsoft starts revoking keys because you can "compromise" windows with linux |
| 16:39.04 | Tenkawa | its not compromised... |
| 16:39.13 | Tenkawa | its a "partnership" |
| 16:39.16 | Tenkawa | haahaa |
| 16:39.51 | petn-randall | You *can* add your own signing keys, so secure boot does actually add some benefit. |
| 16:40.04 | petn-randall | You can also remove any other keys AFAIK. |
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| 16:40.25 | Tenkawa | I mean who wouldve ever thought non-windows code would be runnning in a windows store addon to make it feel like linux |
| 16:40.29 | martian67| | argh why does 4.19 require python 3? |
| 16:40.34 | martian67| | anyway to avoid this |
| 16:40.44 | jelly | hmm? |
| 16:41.12 | martian67| | trying to upgrade to the backported 4.19 wants to install python 3 |
| 16:41.20 | Tenkawa | jelly: was that for martian67| or me? |
| 16:41.33 | jelly | martian67|: show the complete output. |
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| 16:42.15 | jelly | martian67|: I suspect Recommends: apparmor |
| 16:42.36 | martian67| | sigh, bloating this image by another 50% horay |
| 16:43.12 | jelly | just do aptitude install linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 apparmor_ |
| 16:43.32 | jelly | or use an option to avoid installing Recommends this one time |
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| 16:43.57 | greycat | Is that _ correct, or should it be - ? |
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| 16:44.22 | jelly | _ is want-to-purge, - is want-to-remove iirc |
| 16:44.41 | greycat | So intuitive. :rolleyes: |
| 16:44.46 | jelly | obviously _ is lower than - |
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| 16:44.55 | Tenkawa | isnt it though? |
| 16:45.01 | Tenkawa | ugh |
| 16:45.18 | jelly | yes it's very intuitive if you're unfortunate enough to remember dselect |
| 16:45.20 | greycat | Especially since - is actually a valid character in a package name. |
| 16:45.47 | Tenkawa | yeah and if you mistype it, very bad things could happen |
| 16:45.48 | jelly | (I don't know if - as suffix works at all) |
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| 16:46.33 | greycat | http://paste.debian.net/1072104/ |
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| 16:47.27 | greycat | setpriv_ doesn't work with apt-get but does work with aptitude |
| 16:48.04 | jelly | so... aptitude wins? |
| 16:48.52 | greycat | It has more features. Never questioned that. |
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| 16:54.57 | jelly | /usr/bin/apt also only does install foo- but not install foo_ |
| 16:55.24 | jelly | clearly someone needs to upload provingapoint-_1.0_all.deb |
| 16:58.33 | martian67| | jelly, new kernel makes no difference... |
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| 17:02.56 | bipul | How to install debian server silently on hypervisor? |
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| 17:06.00 | martian67| | bipul, if you are using libvirt on hypervisor check out virt-install and preseeding |
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| 17:07.19 | bipul | martian67|, I am using Virtualbox headless installation. |
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| 17:08.02 | newbiePI | howdy folks |
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| 17:13.26 | newbiePI | I am running raspbain on a raspberry pi 3. I was able to watch movies with no issue using vlc. then after reboot now I get an error saying can not play mp4. I get sound but no video now? |
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| 17:13.57 | newbiePI | I ended up just rewriting my os to the sd card again. any idea's why it would have failed? |
| 17:14.13 | Tenkawa | any more detail please.. logs? |
| 17:14.42 | Tenkawa | although if you rewrote they are gone already right? |
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| 17:17.02 | Tenkawa | brb.. I need a reboot to finish an install |
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| 17:25.16 | newbiePI | yup, sorry no logs. I am new to linux so it was just easier for me to redo the sd card and update the os again. |
| 17:25.39 | newbiePI | if it happens again I will come here 1st before just reinstalling the os lol |
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| 17:27.11 | CrazyTux | hello.. |
| 17:27.44 | CrazyTux | does debian make use of the contributions made by other debian based distros like mx linux and sparky? |
| 17:29.18 | shtrb | shouldn't apt-get update against deb.debian.org be redirected to cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org ? |
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| 17:30.10 | greycat | !deb.debian.org |
| 17:30.11 | dpkg | deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See http://deb.debian.org/ for more details. |
| 17:31.02 | shtrb | Thank you greycat, but that doesn't answer my question (apt not mentioning I had been redirect to fastly as it's mentioned in deb.debian.org) |
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| 17:32.15 | greycat | So your REAL question is "Why doesn't apt-get show me every single DNS lookup being performed?" |
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| 17:33.03 | FinalX | nobody should ever make it a habit of putting a CDN's own name in the hostname used |
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| 17:33.30 | FinalX | keep everything to generic, reusable names, so you can point it to some other backend/provider later instead without having to reconfigure clients |
| 17:33.45 | shtrb | I was under the impression that apt should say get:2 http://ACTUAL_SERVER/debian buster InRelease instead of get:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease [158 kB] |
| 17:33.47 | FinalX | and redirects and DNS are also not related |
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| 17:34.38 | greycat | apt-get (et al.) do not, as a general rule, tell you to precisely which mirror you have been redirected |
| 17:35.02 | shtrb | Thanks, I was wrong |
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| 17:50.36 | jelly | martian67|: it was worth a try I guess |
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| 19:08.45 | WoC | just did a fresh install 9.8, OpenCL broken (amd) and when i login to X, the screen flips 90 degree CCW |
| 19:08.51 | WoC | suggestions? |
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| 19:12.22 | jhutchins_wk | Hey, that's a fun new one. |
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| 19:46.03 | armu | PAYING BTC $100 for bind setup to host multiple domain names and an easy way to create a A name for each hosted domain name and point to a ip |
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| 19:50.01 | shtrb | you are paying for a tldr page ? |
| 19:50.21 | shtrb | *tldp |
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| 20:16.59 | agio | hi, do the package maintainers push new, updated packages containing security fixes to the regular release archive - as well as the security archive? |
| 20:17.53 | agio | in other words, once a package is security fixed, do the maintainers remove all instances of the old, vulnerable packages? |
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| 20:18.25 | greycat | Once a release has been... released... made stable... there are no updates to it by the regular maintainers. Security updates are created by the security team, and occasionally a point release will be issues, containing the security updates and a few other carefully chosen bug fixes. |
| 20:19.18 | greycat | No, the package in the stable release is not REMOVED. You as a user are expected to have sources.list entries for both the security repository as well as the regular stable repository. |
| 20:19.30 | greycat | Apt-get will use the newer version which will be the one in the security repository. |
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| 20:26.08 | agio | got it. thanks for clarification |
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| 20:48.54 | Unplesantry | debconf: (TERM is not set, so the dialog frontend is not usable.) |
| 20:48.56 | Unplesantry | wtf is this? |
| 20:49.31 | Sleaker | Unplesantry: you're trying to run dpkg/apt commands using scripts? |
| 20:49.55 | greycat | Or from cron, perhaps. |
| 20:50.07 | Sleaker | that's a script :P |
| 20:50.25 | Unplesantry | docker lol |
| 20:50.32 | greycat | Well, it's the execution environment here that matters, not whether it's a script. A script being run in a terminal would work. |
| 20:50.37 | Sleaker | sure |
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| 20:51.16 | Unplesantry | this fixes it seems like |
| 20:51.16 | Sleaker | Unplesantry: set DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive before doing anything with dpkg/apt in the docker container |
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| 20:51.19 | Unplesantry | RUN echo 'debconf debconf/frontend select Noninteractive' | debconf-set-selections |
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| 21:08.18 | DonK_KijotE | Hi |
| 21:09.55 | agio | I'm trying to show/print the original release package for policykit, (the vulnerable one) left in the stretch release archive. but `apt-cache policy policykit1' is only showing the new security-fixed package. how can I show/print all the "policykit-1" packages? |
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| 21:14.15 | Sleaker | agio: apt-cache only shows information about packages that are cached locally. |
| 21:14.45 | Sleaker | if you've already updated and apt update hasn't been run against a repo with the vulnerable one it won't show in apt-cache |
| 21:15.01 | greycat | What version is the "vulnerable one"? |
| 21:15.12 | agio | that's what I'm trying to find out |
| 21:15.24 | agio | all I can see is the fixed one |
| 21:15.41 | agio | (when running apt-cache policy policykit-1) |
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| 21:15.43 | Sleaker | agio: apt-cache is not the tool you're looking for then |
| 21:15.59 | greycat | that completely didn't answer my question :( |
| 21:16.26 | agio | what did I miss? |
| 21:16.45 | greycat | You claim there's a "vulnerable version". I'm wondering what version that is. |
| 21:16.45 | Sleaker | what version is the vulnerable version. |
| 21:16.58 | Sleaker | if you don't know what the vulnerable version is how are you searching for it? |
| 21:17.18 | greycat | I'm not seeing policykit on https://www.debian.org/security/ either |
| 21:17.52 | greycat | How old is the DSA? |
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| 21:18.23 | agio | If Im understanding this bug report: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=915332, the vulnerable version is: "Found in version policykit-1/0.105-18" |
| 21:18.34 | greycat | Here's one from DECEMBER: https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2018/msg00282.html |
| 21:18.57 | Sleaker | [06 Dec 2018] DSA-4350 policykit-1 - security update |
| 21:19.22 | greycat | Yeah, that's three months ago. No wonder there's no skew between security.d.o and the main repository. |
| 21:19.41 | greycat | Point releases have occurred since then. The patched version is already in main. |
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| 21:21.04 | agio | oh, so once point releases are published, the original package is removed from the release archive? |
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| 21:21.40 | agio | or is it just removed from local apt cache ? |
| 21:22.29 | greycat | What's your REAL question? I am still completely stumped by what you are looking for. |
| 21:22.37 | Sleaker | agio: it's still in the remote repository |
| 21:22.48 | Sleaker | like I said before though, apt-cache is probably not what you're looking for |
| 21:23.12 | agio | Im trying to recreate the bug, so I want to install the vulnerable package/s into a container for testing |
| 21:23.14 | Sleaker | apt-cache lets you poll information about a package from the local cache of apt data. it requires that you've run an apt-get update against a repository. |
| 21:23.20 | greycat | If you want the old broken version: |
| 21:23.23 | greycat | !snapshot |
| 21:23.23 | dpkg | http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412 |
| 21:25.29 | Sleaker | the vulnerable package isn't available on either of the main or security repositories so you'll have to look for a version prior to policykit-1_0.115-3 |
| 21:25.37 | greycat | On snapshot. |
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| 21:28.51 | Tenkawa | yay |
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| 21:28.55 | Tenkawa | much better |
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| 21:31.07 | lpancescu | hi, what happens with CVE-2019-5786? it's a 0-day already exploited in the wild, sid already has the fix, but stretch and testing don't (chrome was updated at the beginning of this week). |
| 21:32.00 | agio | thanks greycat, I found it on snapshot.debian.org |
| 21:32.07 | greycat | The security team will release a fix as soon as they have one ready, I would tihnk. |
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| 21:33.12 | greycat | You can check https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2019-5786 to see if there's any progress. It might be updated before your mirrors are. |
| 21:33.24 | lpancescu | i saw firefox fixes are usually very quick, usually same day as upstream (same as for most debian packages), but for chromium it usually takes a while |
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| 21:34.29 | lpancescu | greycat: i did, that's where i saw that sid has had the fix since March 2nd |
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| 21:36.46 | agio | what is the significance of "deb" in the version name of a package? e.g. 72.0.3626.96-1~deb9u2 |
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| 21:37.12 | greycat | deb9u2 means it's the second security for debian 9 (stretch) to that package |
| 21:37.39 | agio | ok, thanks |
| 21:37.45 | Sleaker | the 'deb' indicates it's a specific patch version to debian. |
| 21:37.45 | EdePopede | that's actually a really nice glob > `echo ??(?)?`. took me some time, but it has something. |
| 21:38.04 | greycat | EdePopede: extglobs are off by default in bash, though -- you have to enable them with shopt -s extglob |
| 21:38.37 | Sleaker | agio: as opposed to the package maintainers version. |
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| 21:39.33 | agio | does extendedglob enable the `^' token in bash? (i.e. match files which _dont_ contain this pattern) |
| 21:39.46 | greycat | that would be !(foo) |
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| 21:39.57 | lpancescu | debian normally backports security fixes to the version in stable, looking at e.g. https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/chromium will tell you which vullns haven't been patched yet |
| 21:40.00 | greycat | https://mywiki.wooledge.org/glob#extglob |
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| 21:42.08 | agio | ah, so extendedglob is not necessary |
| 21:43.29 | EdePopede | greycat: they're on here, and nothing to see in the start scripts. even in a new terminal, but i also checked the profile files. |
| 21:43.43 | greycat | Where is "here"? |
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| 21:46.24 | greycat | They're on by default in ksh, and bash *can* be compiled with them on by default (but is not in Debian 9). |
| 21:46.51 | greycat | So either you're not using a vanilla Debian 9 bash shell, or you've got shopt -s extglob somewhere in .bashrc or similar and you just haven't spotted it yet. |
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| 21:47.47 | agio | yes, the negation glob operator !(..) only works with extglob on |
| 21:48.25 | EdePopede | stretch. and "glob" has only one entry in the files and there it is commented out. |
| 21:48.47 | agio | why extglob is on by default - Im not sure - I wouldn't set that |
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| 21:49.23 | nickgaw | Hi, Why can I not login to my system as root using my password with ssh? |
| 21:49.34 | greycat | Some people in #bash would prefer if it were enabled by default because it doesn't seem to break anything. Chet is very conservative about backward compatibility though. |
| 21:49.52 | greycat | nickgaw: that's configurable in /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
| 21:50.19 | nickgaw | What do I change? |
| 21:50.26 | greycat | For a long time the default during Debian installation was to set it up to allow Root ssh access. Only recently (jessie or stretch maybe?) it changed to disallow Root by default. |
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| 21:50.49 | greycat | wooledg:~$ grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
| 21:50.49 | greycat | PermitRootLogin yes |
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| 21:50.59 | nickgaw | why not have a debconf setting for this? |
| 21:51.11 | greycat | Why not just edit the file and restart ssh? |
| 21:51.39 | nickgaw | ok but what do I change? |
| 21:51.46 | greycat | There *was* a question about it during the installation, long ago. It was removed, along with the email configuration, because they wanted the installation to be "easier". |
| 21:51.54 | greycat | Dude, I told you AND showed you. |
| 21:52.18 | agio | permitrootlogn and PasswordAuthentication may need to be changed |
| 21:52.36 | lpancescu | nickgaw: find that line and change WithoutPassword into yes |
| 21:53.20 | lpancescu | i think password auth is already enabled, just not for root |
| 21:53.34 | EdePopede | not even in *bash* and profile* anywhere in /etc. at least for root it is off. i'll take it as a riddle. |
| 21:53.46 | nickgaw | it is set to permit root prohibate password. |
| 21:53.53 | greycat | EdePopede: you only checked in /etc? not in $HOME? |
| 21:54.08 | EdePopede | greycat: checked them all of course |
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| 21:54.23 | EdePopede | i'll create another user later and see |
| 21:55.04 | nickgaw | should I remove the portion about the password and just set it to yes? |
| 21:55.04 | greycat | Hmm... you said root. Maybe it's different for root. I just tried "su -" and it seems to be on there. |
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| 21:55.29 | EdePopede | on? here it is off for root, that glob failed. |
| 21:55.52 | lpancescu | nickgaw: you should disable passwords for everyone, not just root, and use pubkey auth :) |
| 21:56.15 | EdePopede | greycat: anyway, nevermind. i'll try to hunt it down later. |
| 21:56.27 | nickgaw | no I want to allow root to login with a password as currently I can not login as root. |
| 21:56.37 | greycat | "su" -> no extglob. "su -" -> extglob. Hmm. |
| 21:57.04 | lpancescu | sighs |
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| 21:58.28 | nickgaw | if I set it to allow-password would this allow root to login with a password? |
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| 21:58.48 | greycat | You were TOLD what to do. |
| 21:58.54 | greycat | 16:52 lpancescu> nickgaw: find that line and change WithoutPassword into yes |
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| 21:59.37 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: The default is "PermitRootLogin prohibit-password". You are expected to log in as a regular user and use su - or sudo for root privileges. |
| 22:00.10 | greycat | Well, "expected" is a subjective thing. |
| 22:00.32 | agio | what if the system doesn't have a regular user yet? |
| 22:00.43 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: It would be worth your effort to read the manpage for sshd_config and get an idea what options are available. |
| 22:00.44 | greycat | One is created during installation. |
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| 22:01.10 | agio | on desktops you mean? |
| 22:01.20 | greycat | During. Installation. |
| 22:01.23 | lpancescu | direct login to root via ssh keys also works, as it should |
| 22:01.45 | greycat | It prompts you for the full name of the initial user account, and then supplies a generated login name, and prompts you for the password. You know. During installation. |
| 22:02.07 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: You can opt out. |
| 22:02.12 | lpancescu | you might now have a user at all if you disabled that in the preseed file for debian-installer |
| 22:02.28 | greycat | Well if you do those things, then you get to fix whatever problem you created for yourself. |
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| 22:02.53 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Exactly |
| 22:03.01 | nickgaw | the line says in buster permitrootlogin prohibit-password and there is no line about root login with-password but loads of comments about it. |
| 22:03.14 | lpancescu | greycat: heh, preseed and ansible-ull, athough i suspect nickgaw isn't quite there yet |
| 22:03.32 | lpancescu | ansible-pull^ |
| 22:03.39 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: The commented line in the config file shows what the default setting is. |
| 22:03.49 | nickgaw | yes |
| 22:04.19 | nickgaw | I wish to change it to allow root with password but the line does not exist to uncomment. |
| 22:04.51 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: Have a look at th man page. |
| 22:05.08 | nickgaw | for the configuration file? |
| 22:05.09 | greycat | nickgaw: grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
| 22:05.24 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: The syntax has changed a bit in different releases. |
| 22:05.29 | lpancescu | nickgaw: there won't be a commented line for each possible setting. just edit the file to the settings you need |
| 22:05.43 | greycat | Who wants to bet he's in the wrong file. |
| 22:07.22 | jhutchins_wk | Since he's clearly not in the man page, I'd say yes. |
| 22:07.45 | greycat | I'm guessing he's in ssh_config instead of sshd_config. |
| 22:07.46 | nickgaw | I am in the right file does it matter where I add that option? |
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| 22:08.55 | greycat | Add it where it exists by default on a DEBIAN system. Log in to a DEBIAN system to see one. |
| 22:09.05 | greycat | I don't know what you're using but it's clearly not a default Debian sshd_config. |
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| 22:09.24 | lpancescu | nickgaw: no, it doesn't (although directly after the commented out line is usually a good place) |
| 22:09.59 | nickgaw | it is a buster system installed rfreshly and in the installation I chose ssh server during the select and install software. |
| 22:10.27 | greycat | and what do you see when you PASTE (NOT TYPE) grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
| 22:10.45 | nickgaw | As buster is still in testing is it not supported here as something could have been changed from stable to testing? |
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| 22:12.22 | nickgaw | Chroot-Directory none |
| 22:12.29 | nickgaw | commented out. |
| 22:12.33 | greycat | See, you cannot follow directions. |
| 22:12.40 | greycat | That line does NOT match Root. |
| 22:13.11 | greycat | You typed "root" (lower case) instead of READING. |
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| 22:14.09 | greycat | And then instead of PASTING the result here, you typed it out, and made TWO mistakes. |
| 22:14.14 | nickgaw | with a # and tPermitRootLogin without-password |
| 22:14.34 | agio | is there any documentation for the PermitRootLogin option? its not in man ssh_config... |
| 22:14.42 | greycat | man sshd_config |
| 22:14.59 | nickgaw | I am using epic5 a text based irc client is this not a suggested client for copying and pasting? |
| 22:15.21 | agio | I dont have man sshd_config |
| 22:15.48 | nickgaw | man sshd_config exists for me |
| 22:16.09 | somiaj | agio: do you have the openssh-server installed? |
| 22:16.11 | lpancescu | agio: then you probably don't have sshd either. you have to install openssh-server |
| 22:16.23 | agio | yes, thats the problem |
| 22:16.35 | jhutchins_wk | agio: Do you have sshd? |
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| 22:17.15 | agio | sorry, yeah, I didn't have sshd on the machine I was trying to read man page for! |
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| 22:18.25 | vvor | agio: https://linux.die.net/man/8/sshd |
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| 22:19.04 | jhutchins_wk | Interesting: dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
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| 22:21.43 | nickgaw | fixed it the line now reads as PermitRootLogin yes and now I can login with a password. as I am totally blind and use the text console and am using epic5 do you know of a way I can using the keyboard copy and paste text? |
| 22:22.52 | jhutchins_wk | !info gpm |
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| 22:22.59 | dpkg | gpm: (General Purpose Mouse interface), section misc, is optional. Version: 1.20.7-5 (sid), Packaged size: 194 kB, Installed size: 484 kB |
| 22:23.30 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: gpm gives you mouse functions in text consoles. |
| 22:23.45 | nickgaw | I don't use a mouse can screen be used with the keyboard to copy and paste text? |
| 22:23.47 | jmcnaught | nickgaw: GNU Screen can copy and paste with just the keyboard |
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| 22:24.24 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: I'm fairly certain it allows keyboard highlight/copy/paste. (It's been a while since I used it.) |
| 22:24.34 | jmcnaught | nickgaw: http://web.mit.edu/gnu/doc/html/screen_11.html |
| 22:25.20 | nickgaw | so in that case I would not use the virtual consoles but do everything using screen's commands? |
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| 22:27.50 | jmcnaught | screen can only copy and paste in the screens that it manages, so if you need that feature a lot you might choose to use screen all the time |
| 22:28.37 | nickgaw | I will just start it when I login in .profile with the -q option would that work? |
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| 22:31.16 | vvor | nickgaw: You probable want to disable root & switch to key-base authentication ASAP. |
| 22:31.51 | nickgaw | I have keys for ssh generated why do you suggest I disable passwords? |
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| 22:33.25 | vvor | Passwords are less secure. |
| 22:33.56 | vvor | Root login is less secure. |
| 22:34.27 | nickgaw | I have my keys in .ssh in my home directories but can I just have one key set for the entire system as it is mine rather then copying the keys to each user account? |
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| 22:36.16 | blackflow | nickgaw: I think you can, yes, with the AuthorizedKeysFile directive of sshd_config |
| 22:36.28 | vvor | If you want all users to use the same key, you can. But you lose security and auditing optioins. |
| 22:36.51 | nickgaw | good point |
| 22:37.01 | agio | would it be reasonable to enable ssh-agent-forwarding on a remote server - _if_ I setup my local ssh-agent - to prompt me each time a process tried to access ssh-agent? |
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| 22:37.06 | jmcnaught | most people would have a single account they use for logging in, then use su or sudo to change users |
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| 22:37.48 | vvor | Yep. And generating a user key is all most the same time as copying the keys... |
| 22:38.16 | nickgaw | my one issue for disabling passwords is what happens if I lose the private key file as yes both are backed up but are there ways to force my way into my own system should that ever happen? |
| 22:38.54 | friendofafriend | PAM isn't keyed, log in locally. |
| 22:39.22 | nickgaw | I mean if I am away from this system as yes I could login locally. |
| 22:40.20 | vvor | Where will you keep the password then? |
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| 22:41.18 | vvor | Sourly you can not remember it, because if so it is not a good one anyhow. |
| 22:42.23 | agio | would it be reasonable to enable ssh-agent-forwarding on a remote server - _if_ I setup my local ssh-agent - to prompt me each time a process tried to access ssh-agent? |
| 22:42.40 | agio | (sorry for bump) |
| 22:45.23 | vvor | What is the end goal? What are you relay trying to achieve? |
| 22:46.20 | agio | I need to do git push/pulling on a remote server |
| 22:47.15 | agio | so git/ssh process on the server will connect to github |
| 22:47.23 | agio | and it needs to authenticate |
| 22:47.38 | ksk | use a seperate keypair, which only lives on this server, and is only used to push to git(hub) |
| 22:48.23 | vvor | Yep without passphrase, but a restricted user. |
| 22:48.25 | agio | won't that be less secure |
| 22:48.26 | agio | ? |
| 22:48.59 | ksk | if you use a password, then no? |
| 22:49.46 | jmcnaught | agio: there's an alternative to agent forwarding discussed here that I've used: https://heipei.io/2015/02/26/SSH-Agent-Forwarding-considered-harmful/ |
| 22:50.04 | ksk | also depends on how you define that, and how your overall setup looks like. |
| 22:50.06 | agio | right, but if the server is compromised, typing the password on the system is vulnerable |
| 22:50.22 | ksk | you just type a password for a sshkey |
| 22:50.47 | agio | right, a password which can be sniffed on a compromised server |
| 22:50.52 | ksk | if its "dedicated git key via ssh-agent) vs something else It does not really matter |
| 22:51.09 | vvor | https://serverfault.com/questions/170048/create-ssh-user-with-limited-privileges-to-only-use-git-repository |
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| 22:52.09 | agio | yes, agreed. |
| 22:52.23 | vvor | https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/1-git-shell/ |
| 22:52.38 | ksk | if your server where you develop is compromised, it does not really matter if you use agent forwarding, or have the key you would have forwrded on disk (+type in password) |
| 22:53.15 | ksk | maybe I would go for agent-forwarding, but always make sure you forward only the key needed for git (and dont use it for anythign else) |
| 22:54.11 | vvor | agio: Do not reinvent the wheel... |
| 22:54.38 | ksk | you can of course also do git magic? like have a repo live a $remote-server, pull the changes back to your client via git, push from client to github ;) |
| 22:54.52 | agio | yes, I thought of that |
| 22:54.57 | agio | that is safe |
| 22:55.09 | agio | but awkward workflow |
| 22:55.13 | ksk | depends on what you define as safe. |
| 22:55.40 | ksk | this would give only you control to push to git compared to the other methods. |
| 22:56.20 | ksk | on the other hand, why login into an untrusted server and develop there in the first place? |
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| 22:56.26 | agio | right ,so you are saying to mint a set of ssh keys which have restricted access (can only access git repo's) |
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| 22:57.45 | jhutchins_wk | nickgaw: To answer your earlier question, ssh wouldn't be very secure if you could get around required key-based authentication. It's probably possible to crack, but certainly not eassy. |
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| 23:00.13 | agio | jhutchins_wk: hah, I just read the part about " having unprotected sex only for a short amount of time" lol |
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| 23:04.38 | agio | jhutchins_wk: just finished readin. wow, this ProxyCommand could be a game changer. |
| 23:05.02 | agio | so essentially I would just dispatch all commands from my workstation |
| 23:05.14 | jmcnaught | agio: actually you can probably just use ProxyJump now, that article is a little old |
| 23:05.34 | jmcnaught | https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSSH/Cookbook/Proxies_and_Jump_Hosts#Jump_Hosts_--_Passing_Through_a_Gateway_or_Two |
| 23:05.38 | agio | no need to expose an agent socket on a remote for extended periods of time |
| 23:06.33 | agio | well I understand ProxyCommand now... thats a start |
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| 23:07.15 | vvor | agio: Make sure not to lose workstation ;-) |
| 23:07.18 | agio | basically you are saying "whenever I connect to this host, first connect to this ProxyCommand host |
| 23:07.49 | vvor | agio: KISS... |
| 23:08.03 | agio | and then run whatever ssh command - from the hostA |
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| 23:09.12 | jmcnaught | agio: I would try ProxyJump first then fall back to ProxyCommand if it doesn't work. You can even do it at runtime: ssh -J user@jump.example.com user@target.example.com |
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| 23:09.43 | agio | what are the benefits of ProxyJump over ProxyCommand? |
| 23:09.51 | jmcnaught | it's simpler |
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| 23:10.43 | agio | also, one issue I can see with ProxyCommand, is that I would have to edit ~/.ssh/config - everytime I need to run a command on "hostA". |
| 23:11.16 | agio | does ProxyJump allow for specifying routes on a - per command - basis? |
| 23:12.35 | agio | ah, thats what you meant by "at runtime"... |
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| 23:28.18 | agio | would it be possible to use ProxyCommand or ProxyJump to do git operations on a remote server? |
| 23:29.03 | agio | i.e. to do a git pull, you usually cd your shell into the directory the repo, then call `git pull' |
| 23:30.34 | agio | so you would have to rewrite the command to something like: ssh -J user@jump.example.com `git pull' |
| 23:31.06 | Sleaker | sounds like something you should be doing in scripts that you invoke on the remote host. or a tool like ansible. |
| 23:31.09 | agio | or `ssh -J user@jump.example.com `cd <path/to/repo/> ; git pull' |
| 23:32.22 | agio | the problem is passing the authentication onto the remote git/ssh process - ansible can't do that (it delegates out to ssh - just like git does) |
| 23:32.52 | Sleaker | why aren't you using key based handshakes? |
| 23:32.56 | jmcnaught | agio: if you're connecting directly to the target host then you don't need a jumphost. To run a command it is simply "ssh user@hostname command" |
| 23:33.25 | agio | im not connecting directly to the target |
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| 23:34.02 | agio | im ssh'ing into a server, then from on that server - issuing git push/fetch/pull operations |
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| 23:34.24 | agio | from within a git repo on that server - to github |
| 23:34.36 | agio | if that makes sense |
| 23:34.44 | Sleaker | 'target' here is the server in your example |
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| 23:34.55 | Sleaker | you ssh sometargetwithgitfolders |
| 23:35.04 | agio | target is github, server is jumphost |
| 23:35.17 | Sleaker | where is the local git data? |
| 23:35.32 | Sleaker | sounds like you're complicating the steps |
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| 23:35.44 | Sleaker | if the server has the git data, it's the target, not github. |
| 23:36.04 | agio | the git data is on the server - and on github. github is the central repo |
| 23:36.28 | agio | so the server needs to communicate+authenticate to github |
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| 23:37.00 | Sleaker | agio: that's setup automatically based on your keys. you can validate that by logging into the user and issuing git commands directly from the server |
| 23:37.11 | Sleaker | if they work without needing interactive auth then you have it setup properly. |
| 23:37.14 | Sleaker | if not, then set it up properly. |
| 23:37.32 | Sleaker | you don't need -J in your examples. |
| 23:37.49 | agio | right |
| 23:38.02 | Sleaker | and as jmcnaught said, you are connecting directly to the target host (the server is the target host you're trying to run commands on) |
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| 23:38.54 | Sleaker | I don't see how that's relevant to wanting to run git push/pull on the server. |
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| 23:39.10 | Sleaker | slightly disconnected message. |
| 23:39.16 | agio | the purpose of -J or ProxyCommand is to avoid doing authenticcation on the server |
| 23:39.55 | Getattrovskaya | hello everyone! the virt-manager first worked well after installation, but now it gives this error when I want to run it: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1072164 |
| 23:40.07 | Getattrovskaya | last time the VM booted I changed the screen resolution..can it be related to the emergence of this problem? |
| 23:40.37 | Sleaker | the purpose of -J is to jump between multiple ssh servers. such as if you were trying to issue ssh commands from your local machine to some remote server, but wanted them to pass through an intermediary |
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| 23:40.42 | agio | Sleaker: so what Im trying to do is essentially the setup you just described - but without performing authentication steps (interactive or agent-forwarding) on the server |
| 23:40.50 | black_13 | how do you build all the source packages of a set of things say build all the gstreamer packages from source with debug information |
| 23:41.41 | agio | Sleaker: right - so - what Im wondering - is if its possible to "repurpose" -J to run a git command from on a server |
| 23:41.43 | Sleaker | agio: the process flow you described (issuing git commands from some host to github) doesn't facilitate usage of a Proxy intermediary like you think it does. |
| 23:42.00 | Sleaker | agio: negative, that's not how git works. |
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| 23:43.20 | agio | ah, so you mean - if I issue a git command using -J - the push/pull would apply locally to my workstation? |
| 23:43.36 | Sleaker | agio: I think you misunderstanding what git does. |
| 23:43.54 | Sleaker | git pushes/pulls data from wherever the command is done. |
| 23:44.11 | agio | connects over ssh to a remote repo - sends and/or retrieves data |
| 23:44.23 | Sleaker | yes the data is sent over ssh, the *command* is not. |
| 23:45.27 | Sleaker | think of it more like scp. |
| 23:45.35 | Sleaker | or rsync |
| 23:47.34 | Sleaker | git supports multiple transfer protocols, ssh just happens to be one of the more widely used ones. |
| 23:47.43 | agio | hmm, you could be right, |
| 23:47.48 | vvor | agio: I urge you to read the link I posted for you before. And this one: https://gist.github.com/thomasfr/9691385. KISS. |
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| 23:48.35 | vvor | You could have been done with it a long time ago. |
| 23:48.48 | Sleaker | yah, not sure why you're digging into ssh -J stuff. |
| 23:48.55 | Sleaker | wrong rabit hole? |
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| 23:52.31 | agio | vvor: that gist is talking about a bare repo on the server right? as in you want to setup a kind of DIY git-host? |
| 23:52.41 | agio | on the server |
| 23:53.09 | jmcnaught | agio: when I suggested ProxyJump I didn't realize you were trying to use git on a remote server, I was just showing an alternative to ssh agent forwarding |
| 23:53.16 | Sleaker | agio: yes. |
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| 23:54.02 | Getattrovskaya | I dont know what's wrong with the VM. it always worked well till now |
| 23:54.02 | agio | yes, Im talking about a full git repo on the server |
| 23:54.10 | Sleaker | agio: it's setting up a post-recieve hook in a local git install so that when you git push to your own server it publishes the repo to a http directory |
| 23:54.52 | Sleaker | 'full git repo' |
| 23:55.04 | agio | jmcnaught: so are you saying it's not possible to use ProxyCommand, -J to issue git commands on a remote server - with the credentials from your workstation? |
| 23:55.06 | Sleaker | self-hosting git is the same thing as just providing ssh access honestly. |
| 23:55.34 | Sleaker | agio: it's just the wrong way to think about what you're trying to do |
| 23:55.45 | Sleaker | ProxyCommand jumphosts aren't what you're looking for. |
| 23:55.59 | vvor | agio: The idea here is use a restricted ssh user with a key-base authentication without a passphrase. |
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| 23:56.22 | Sleaker | you don't issue git commands on a remote server, you issue git commands on your local system and git handles connecting and pushing the data to the server. |
| 23:57.36 | Sleaker | if you have some remote server and you want to have your local git push command push to it and also push to github, that's just some additional git setup stuff. |
| 23:58.56 | agio | vvor: yes, thats a valid way to do it - if its possible to load those keys on a per-repo basis. |
| 23:59.09 | Sleaker | agio: keys are per user not repo |
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| 23:59.53 | agio | what? |