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| 00:33.20 | bipul | I have Linux installer boot menu, and i want it should automatically get enter into "Install" options, which is a second options, How would i achieve that?/ |
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| 00:51.06 | karlpinc | bipul: I don't know offhand. Read the Install Guide manual? |
| 00:52.31 | bipul | Nops let me go with that |
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| 00:53.04 | karlpinc | bipul: You can do a completely unattended install, I think. So it seems possible. |
| 00:54.10 | annadane | there's preseeding of course but i don't know of hooks or scripts that allow one to select options by default like that |
| 00:54.24 | annadane | but i don't know very much and it's quite possible this is doable |
| 00:55.36 | ryouma | when you dist upgrade, is it advisable to remove contrib and non-free |
| 00:56.02 | annadane | not as a matter of course, no, though you can if you don't need those packages |
| 00:56.43 | ryouma | i recall in the distant past, i needed to remove those (not the packages) so that oom would not kick in |
| 00:56.47 | ryouma | killer* |
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| 01:02.52 | bipul | okay i did that :) karlpinc . Just need to configure iso boot menue to redirect into "install" options |
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| 01:12.11 | annadane | but no, it would be very silly to need to remove contrib/non-free for dist-upgrades, there's just no situation where that would be the case AFAICT |
| 01:12.33 | annadane | for full dist-upgrades between stable releases, you remove backports in /etc/apt/sources.list |
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| 01:13.46 | ryouma | annadane: thanks. i had a note "contrib might take more than 4gb mem" |
| 01:14.13 | annadane | that sounds excessively high |
| 01:14.38 | annadane | it really depends on your available disk space and what you need and what you've installed |
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| 01:20.38 | pfred1 | I've never seen my memory use go over 2.1 GB and that was running a benchmark |
| 01:21.05 | pfred1 | but more RAM is nice for cache data |
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| 01:29.11 | mawk | mine went up to 32 GiB when compiling llvm in debug mode |
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| 01:41.48 | Intrique | I have installed stretch on a 32bit system with a vte technologie video onboard. Initial startup screen shows just fine but after debian is selected a flash on the screen then black with mouse pointer and monitor turns off and then on repeatedly. I can enter rescue mode but do not know where to go from there |
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| 02:00.34 | Intrique | the video is an s4 unichrome vendor is VIA Technologies |
| 02:00.48 | Intrique | sorry s3 unichrome |
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| 02:10.39 | Intrique | can you guys see me all i am getting are indications of folk coming on and leaving |
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| 02:13.56 | Intrique | need help with my s3 unichrome via technologies onboard video |
| 02:19.21 | aloo_shu | i can see you, Intrique |
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| 02:23.40 | aloo_shu | I'm not 100% sure, but there are boot parameters meant to choose simpler video modes, like nomodeset, Intrique |
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| 02:24.04 | aloo_shu | do you get a grub boot menu? |
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| 02:25.34 | Intrique | ok thank you aloo_shu |
| 02:25.39 | aloo_shu | if yes, you can press 'e' to edit your desired boot entry, then proceed to boot |
| 02:26.03 | cryptodan_mobile | Intrique: your video is far to old for newer kernels |
| 02:26.34 | Intrique | when i push e i get a script and do not know how to edit aloo_shu |
| 02:27.03 | Intrique | shoot cryptodan_mobile so I am dead in the water with stretch |
| 02:27.18 | karlpinc | Intrique: Use the arrow keys and read the editing instructions at the bottom of the screen. |
| 02:27.19 | aloo_shu | you'd have to wedge 'nomodeset' between other params such as quiet splash, on the 'linux' line |
| 02:28.25 | Intrique | thank you guys you have been very helpful |
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| 02:29.01 | aloo_shu | cryptodan_mobile: he could install a framebuffer based xserver as a last resort, couldn't he? |
| 02:29.14 | aloo_shu | or her |
| 02:29.23 | cryptodan_mobile | I wouldnt waste time on it |
| 02:29.56 | Intrique | cryptodan_mobile is a matrox card any better |
| 02:30.08 | aloo_shu | cryptodan_mobile: highly helpful. of course, it's not your problem.. |
| 02:30.09 | cryptodan_mobile | Not really |
| 02:31.32 | aloo_shu | I know from puppylinux that pretty new kernels can work with pretty old hw in general, if the os is set up for it |
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| 02:34.26 | Intrique | aloo_shu it does not know nomodeset |
| 02:35.12 | Intrique | what would be the command line for xserver framebuffer |
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| 02:35.42 | Intrique | aloo_shu what would be the command line for xserver framebuffer |
| 02:36.06 | aloo_shu | bit lost there, but.. |
| 02:36.51 | aloo_shu | ,xserver-xorg-video-vesa |
| 02:36.57 | aloo_shu | ,p xserver-xorg-video-vesa |
| 02:37.08 | aloo_shu | ,v xserver-xorg-video-vesa |
| 02:37.09 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg-video-vesa on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.3.3-1+b3; stretch: 1:2.3.4-1+b2; buster: 1:2.4.0-1; sid: 1:2.4.0-1 |
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| 02:38.41 | Intrique | ok I will do more searching thank you have a wonderful day /night |
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| 02:48.15 | roylaprattep | MariaDB use same dir as MySQL?! /etc/mysql or is it because it was an mysql upgrade to mariadb? |
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| 02:53.09 | jordanm | roylaprattep: mariadb defaults to using /etc/mysql |
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| 03:20.40 | roylaprattep | jordanm: weird. they could have used /etc/mariadb |
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| 03:33.55 | karlpinc | roylaprattep: mariadb was/is a drop-in replacement for mysql. So it uses the same directories. I think in buster they start to diverge. |
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| 03:39.01 | ryouma | when a version becomes oldoldstable, does anything change? |
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| 03:53.59 | awal1 | ryouma, nothing change. supported for 1 year more, as usal/when being stable. |
| 03:54.08 | awal1 | usual |
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| 04:19.07 | COOurb|2 | How to prevent ssh from useing current user's name while conencting? |
| 04:20.33 | COOurb|2 | and always asking for username |
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| 04:40.14 | Robby | I don't think thats a thing |
| 04:40.57 | Robby | you can, however, specify a username on the command line that ssh should use for connecting |
| 04:41.24 | Robby | and so it will use that instead of the current user's |
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| 04:55.44 | COOurb | Guys, debian do not want to load |
| 04:55.49 | COOurb | only in safemode |
| 04:55.52 | alocer | good |
| 04:57.31 | COOurb | so, what should I do? |
| 04:58.03 | alocer | boot in recovery mode and check the logs for whats happening. |
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| 05:02.33 | COOurb | dev-disk-by/many_symbols/.start timed out |
| 05:02.41 | COOurb | I think something with disk |
| 05:02.44 | COOurb | HDD |
| 05:03.36 | alocer | there is couple of commands to check. like: parted, fdisk, lsblk, and many more.. try searching google. |
| 05:04.36 | COOurb | ha, some services work |
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| 05:09.09 | FunkyBob | any chance someone can tell me quickly how I can remap ctrl-down arrow to be up-arrow? bad key on my laptop :/ |
| 05:10.21 | toruvinn | hmm |
| 05:10.28 | toruvinn | FunkyBob, in xorg? |
| 05:10.54 | FunkyBob | yes |
| 05:12.30 | FunkyBob | am scrapoing notes from http://www.fascinatingcaptain.com/projects/remap-keyboard-keys-for-ubuntu/ |
| 05:12.35 | FunkyBob | seems... passable |
| 05:13.18 | toruvinn | lemme look that thing up |
| 05:13.22 | toruvinn | you need to xmodmap that |
| 05:13.31 | toruvinn | keycode 116 = Down NoSymbol Down <- this is the default Down configuration |
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| 05:14.18 | FunkyBob | I'm happy to sacrifice right ctrl or something... |
| 05:16.26 | FunkyBob | baxoon |
| 05:16.32 | FunkyBob | is there an immediate way to apply the changes/ |
| 05:18.01 | toruvinn | FunkyBob, https://askubuntu.com/a/913994 you need to do something like this with your keycode 116, but the problem i have is that not sure how to particularly do this with Ctrl |
| 05:18.46 | FunkyBob | toruvinn: thanks, I did the "edit the PC mappings in /usr/share" ant it's worked |
| 05:18.50 | toruvinn | xmodmap expects four (or 8, but irrelevant) keysyms for keycode, the four as per man are: The first keysym is used when no modifier key is pressed in conjunction with this key, the second with Shift, the third when the Mode_switch key is used with this key and the fourth when both the Mode_switch and Shift keys are used. |
| 05:19.07 | toruvinn | somehow i very, very hate editing things in /usr/ ;-p |
| 05:19.24 | FunkyBob | yeah, me too |
| 05:19.29 | FunkyBob | I left the old one commented out :) |
| 05:20.02 | FunkyBob | thanks for quacking for me :) |
| 05:20.25 | toruvinn | it's fine, you'll keep wondering in a couple of months when you decide to reinstall or dist-upgrade or something |
| 05:20.28 | toruvinn | ;-p |
| 05:20.39 | toruvinn | i had that thing with fcitx. it stopped working in QT apps and i had no idea why. |
| 05:20.39 | toruvinn | (now i do) |
| 05:21.02 | FunkyBob | hrm... well, I run lxqt... so hope it keeps working ;P |
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| 05:32.05 | COOurb | how can I get what partition is for swap? |
| 05:33.25 | COOurb | oh, found |
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| 06:23.16 | runawaysheld123 | Hello |
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| 09:27.15 | vivek | #flood |
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| 09:33.26 | vivek | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:33.55 | vivek | can anyone help me fix this? |
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| 10:25.52 | kinky_nekoboi | Hello everybody |
| 10:26.10 | kinky_nekoboi | i am using nouveau with my corebooted Thinkpad W520 right now |
| 10:26.10 | kinky_nekoboi | * #nouveau :Cannot send to nick/channel |
| 10:26.10 | kinky_nekoboi | <kinky_nekoboi> having some trouble with strange looking display after suspend/resume |
| 10:26.30 | kinky_nekoboi | debian buster btw |
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| 11:03.07 | shtrb | Anyone here using their own local calendar server that is served by debian and can share experience ? (I'm searching for something that can accept ical files ,provide caldev interface and have per user calendars) |
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| 11:43.44 | azi` | I am running 9.6 (stretch). What would be the way to upgrade Xorg (and the respective graphic drivers) to the highest possible version? |
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| 11:59.32 | GNU\colossus | azi`, there is no way. you could upgrade to Buster (current testing) to get a newer xorg stack |
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| 11:59.55 | azi` | GNU\colossus: is there a way to do this from the command line? |
| 12:00.09 | azi` | or do I have to make a new ISO and go through that pathway |
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| 12:00.37 | GNU\colossus | sure you can upgrade :) check out https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting |
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| 12:01.18 | GNU\colossus | you should not that while tesing is frozen, there's still a regular stream of fixes and updates coming in. it's a moving target, and some things you rely upon might be broken. |
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| 12:06.26 | shtrb | I'm under the impression that there is debian 9.7, so you could first upgrade locally against your mirror |
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| 12:07.20 | shtrb | azi`, Sorry, the current version is 9.8 do you can /should try to upgrade to it first and see if that will be enough for you. |
| 12:09.30 | themill | there's no newer xorg, but there's newer kernel and nvidia which might help |
| 12:09.37 | GNU\colossus | that won't change their xorg and/or driver version |
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| 12:35.24 | abc73469 | Hi, what are the standard (out_of_the_box) permissions on /var/lib/docker on Debian? I currently see drwx--x--x. 14 root root , but I suspect somebody changed it... Could somebody, please, look it up? Thank you! |
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| 12:39.28 | NetTerminalGene | do you guys know if firefox addons in debian repo updates the addon if it is not compatible with new firefox? |
| 12:40.26 | NetTerminalGene | or they just don't care? |
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| 12:43.24 | abc73469 | Anybody? Could somebody check his /var/lib/docker permissions, please? Thank you! |
| 12:43.31 | azi` | shtrb: how do I do that though? upgrade to 9.8 that is |
| 12:44.17 | shtrb | apt-get -d dist-upgrade and then apt-get dist-upgrade |
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| 12:44.45 | shtrb | that is one way, after you made sure your mirrors are set and you did apt-get update |
| 12:45.54 | shtrb | azi`, but themill said it does not have a newer xorg version |
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| 12:55.42 | abc73469 | Nobody here uses Docker?!... |
| 12:56.14 | azi` | shtrb: thanks |
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| 13:13.06 | jagenau | 3/part |
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| 13:18.31 | jrzz | hello guys, is anyone using debian sid (rolling) ? |
| 13:18.39 | themill | NetTerminalGene: a whole lot of plugins were removed from stretch because they were not compatible with the updated firefox |
| 13:19.35 | NetTerminalGene | themill, i see |
| 13:19.43 | NetTerminalGene | that's bad |
| 13:22.55 | themill | yes and no, you can still install them via firefox itself |
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| 13:53.37 | TuxCrazy | hello, anyone here who is active now on ##linux also? |
| 13:54.10 | mawk | patience |
| 13:54.43 | annadane | ##linux is very high volume, if you ask a question there it'll surely be answered quickly |
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| 14:07.24 | shtrb | does ext4 need or does it not need to have use_xattr in fstab (if I need to use xattr) ? |
| 14:07.31 | shtrb | Debian stretch |
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| 14:18.56 | ksk | shtrb: are you talking about user_xattr maybe? |
| 14:19.32 | ksk | and sure, if you want to use them "Enable Extended User Attributes." sounds like a smart thing to do.. |
| 14:19.47 | shtrb | I have and yes |
| 14:20.50 | ksk | mhhm, upon further readin the manpage, it seems this option is only valid for ext3, ext2, but not for ext4? |
| 14:21.13 | shtrb | it's not clear if it is needed or not for ext4 |
| 14:21.58 | ksk | okay, it is not _described_ in ext4 part of "man ext4", but it is mentioned. so Yes, I would assume you need to set that.. |
| 14:22.14 | ksk | also, why not mount it without, and see what happens to your user_xattr? |
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| 14:22.24 | ksk | (I dont even know what this is, to be honest..) |
| 14:23.25 | shtrb | I wish to understand the proper way |
| 14:23.40 | ksk | of what? |
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| 14:24.47 | ksk | https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/pages/extattrs.html looks sane to me, might be a little outdated. |
| 14:25.04 | ksk | also, what are you trying to do in the first place? (that makes you think you need these user_xattr) |
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| 14:27.33 | shtrb | I read documentation about calenderserver which required that feature to be enabled |
| 14:28.08 | shtrb | And it does seem to work without any error |
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| 14:31.40 | ksk | !next |
| 14:31.40 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 14:31.40 | Cheaterman | Quick question, what's the timeline for buster to become stable? I see there's no date announced yet, but OTOH it's already fully frozen |
| 14:31.50 | ksk | Cheaterman: When its done |
| 14:32.17 | Cheaterman | ksk: Lemme rephrase - are we talking one week, one month, two months, six? |
| 14:32.24 | ksk | https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ - when the number of release critical bugs is low enough |
| 14:32.30 | ksk | (not sure what low enough means though) |
| 14:32.33 | Cheaterman | Ooh, that's a good indicator, thanks ksk |
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| 14:33.13 | shtrb | sorry , ksk but next was too soon :-( |
| 14:33.16 | ksk | would be a good indicator to know with how many release critical bugs stretch was released, but I was not able to find that information |
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| 14:33.52 | ksk | shtrb: It sounds a little strange to me to use a calendar softwre, which stores information in filesystem attributes - it might also be a cool thing, not sure.. |
| 14:34.59 | ksk | Cheaterman: just a guess, I would think between one and three months maybe ;) |
| 14:35.02 | Cheaterman | ksk: I agree, but still, we can see previous stable still has 37 so if we assume the goal is to get the 174 of next release down to 37, I feel pretty confident that it won't take six months |
| 14:35.04 | shtrb | It's just one option of many, currently I'm checking if it will be good enough for me (I just need a local cardev resource that allow user control and allow pushing iCAL files) |
| 14:35.15 | ksk | Cheaterman: agreed. |
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| 14:35.25 | Cheaterman | ksk: sounds good, thanks :-) exactly the kind of rough estimate I was looking for (no critical reason to ask the question, just curiosity hehe) |
| 14:35.35 | ksk | welcome. |
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| 14:35.39 | angor | hi guys. I'm trying to use pppoe (debian 9), but failed pppoe: Unknown symbol pskb_trim_rcsum_slow (err 0) |
| 14:36.04 | ksk | angor: unknown symbol means there is missing something in your kernel (I dont know anything about PPPoe really..) |
| 14:36.22 | angor | ksk: native debian kernel |
| 14:37.03 | shtrb | angor, Bug#923522 |
| 14:37.05 | angor | do I need to install smth or rebuild the kernel? |
| 14:37.09 | ksk | "lsmod | grep ppp"? Did you load the ppp kernel module? (in case there still is one, looking at an old gento bugreport right now..) |
| 14:37.54 | angor | modprobe: FATAL: Module ppp not found in directory /lib/modules/4.9.0-8-686-pae |
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| 14:38.08 | ksk | angor: its named "ppp_generic" |
| 14:38.17 | angor | # lsmod | grep ppp |
| 14:38.17 | angor | pppox 16384 0 |
| 14:38.17 | angor | ppp_generic 32768 1 pppox |
| 14:38.17 | angor | slhc 16384 1 ppp_generic |
| 14:38.39 | ksk | okay, so that is loaded, and you still get the error you pasted earlier? |
| 14:38.47 | angor | yep |
| 14:38.54 | ksk | did you read https://wiki.debian.org/PPPoE ? |
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| 14:38.57 | shtrb | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=923522 |
| 14:39.45 | themill | angor: have you installed a new kernel package but not rebooted? |
| 14:39.46 | angor | this worked on Debian 7 with all scripts... |
| 14:39.53 | angor | mmm.. |
| 14:40.07 | angor | that possible.. |
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| 14:40.59 | angor | up 127 days |
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| 14:41.27 | angor | Linux server 4.9.0-8-686-pae |
| 14:41.35 | shtrb | angor, as the bug already says it's a willnotfix issue |
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| 14:42.21 | ksk | (willnotfix as in: you will have to reboot to make it work, it not like its "never gonna work again") |
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| 14:42.51 | shtrb | angor, you could also add a note in 923522@bugs.debian.org for your frustration |
| 14:42.55 | angor | ok, will reboot :) |
| 14:42.56 | ksk | iirc I might have encountered that bug already (judging from apt output), but It did not really hurt me as I did nothing with kernel-related-foo afterwards :x |
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| 14:43.24 | themill | this has been the case for more than a decade -- if you install a new kernel package, you need to reboot |
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| 14:43.33 | shtrb | it was reported less than a month ago and it didnt' get enough love for it |
| 14:43.46 | ksk | themill: but imho only to make the new kernel apply, not to have things that worked before the upgrade.. |
| 14:44.03 | themill | no, loading modules doesn't (necessarily) work either |
| 14:44.23 | shtrb | themill, it is only normally brake dkms not the rest |
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| 14:44.30 | themill | incorrect |
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| 14:44.40 | shtrb | *in my experiance |
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| 14:45.59 | ksk | if you upgrade kernel, a modules updates incompatible (like the change of module will make it -not work- with the atm running kernel), a module reload will lead to "not working" as far as I can tell. Not sure if I ever encountered such a thing before though (not using too many kernel-modules, and also rebooting after upgrades though..) |
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| 14:46.49 | themill | another recent example is #808380. There are many. |
| 14:46.50 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/808380 in mount (closed): «mount: unknown filesystem type 'vfat'»; severity: important; opened: 2015-12-19; last modified: 2016-01-21. |
| 14:46.53 | angor | thanks guys, reboot helped |
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| 14:47.33 | ksk | k, thanks. |
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| 15:29.15 | XsiSec | hey guys I have got debian stretch 9 full encryped on disk1 then I have another drive disk2 encrypted with veracrypt though the disk2 drive is broken, once I remove the disk physical from my computer my debian went into rescue mode the disk is not even in fstab how can I solve this? |
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| 16:44.06 | FightingFalcon | i accidentaly typed python -v in linux console, lots of stuff appeared on the screen. anything wrong? is this editing something in my system? |
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| 16:47.03 | Faket | FightingFalcon Just read the man buddy ;) |
| 16:47.13 | Faket | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:47.21 | Faket | that is checked for when searching for a module. Also provides information on module cleanup at exit. |
| 16:47.24 | ChmEarl | FightingFalcon, type `ctrl-d` to exit |
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| 16:54.49 | xsisec_ | hi guys how do i remove a broken drive from lvm group without out loose the data, I have checked following guide --> https://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/removeadisk.html but little unclear. |
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| 17:09.55 | gvth | Hello there; I have a little problem: When I watch videos which I have downloaded to my desktop computer from my mobile phone recorded in portrait mode, smplayer shows them distorted (stretched in width). Only vlc shows them in the correct aspect ratio. How do I get smplayer to show them correctly? Any help is appreciated :) |
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| 17:17.18 | FightingFalcon | ChmEarl, does that do anything to my system? edit something? or just debug? |
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| 17:18.17 | shtrb | It will murder a process |
| 17:18.37 | shtrb | *input stream |
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| 17:22.58 | gvth | Is there an IRC channel more appropriate to ask smplayer-specific questions than this one? |
| 17:23.13 | EdePopede | gvth: mplayer has an -aspect option (16:9 should be fine), should also work for smplayer |
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| 17:24.23 | gvth | EdePopede: but the video is recorded in portrait mode, so the aspect ratio should be something like 5:9 or something.... Can't smplayer just somehow show in the correct aspect ratio like vlc does? |
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| 17:25.01 | gvth | EdePopede: *I mean show in the correct aspect ratio *automatically* like vlc does? |
| 17:25.10 | EdePopede | gvth: you could use ffmpeg (or mc's viewer if it is installed) to see the dimensions saved in the file. may be not correct |
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| 17:30.37 | gvth | EdePopede: ffmpeg determines the resolutions to be 4128x2322 but this cannot be since the video is recorded in portrait mode |
| 17:31.42 | gvth | EdePopede: wait, this was the wrong file |
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| 17:32.33 | EdePopede | 4k? oh wow, this would kill my cpu :> |
| 17:32.49 | gvth | EdePopede: ffmpeg determines the resolution to be 1920x1080 but, as I said, this is not portrait mode which is strange.... |
| 17:33.26 | EdePopede | gvth: could it be 1080x1920 with the wrong orientation? |
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| 17:33.39 | gvth | EdePopede: likely |
| 17:34.09 | EdePopede | is it ok in fullscreen mode? besides the hugh sidebars of course |
| 17:34.26 | gvth | EdePopede: but why does ffmpeg determine the resolution to be 1920*1080 when it is in fact 1080*1920? |
| 17:34.51 | EdePopede | iirc there's also an option if the ratio should be kept while resizing. oh, and the messages in the terminal could also give some hints |
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| 17:35.30 | EdePopede | like this one > VIDEO: [H264] 720x576 0bpp 25.000 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s) // Movie-Aspect is 1.78:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect. |
| 17:35.37 | gvth | EdePopede: Whether in fullscreen or windowed mode, the video is distorted nonetheless |
| 17:36.15 | gvth | Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p, 1920x1080, 17016 kb/s, 30.02 fps, 30 tbr, 90k tbn, 180k tbc (default) |
| 17:37.00 | EdePopede | did you try `-aspect 9:16`? maybe with some -zoom depending on your screen resolution |
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| 17:39.45 | gvth | EdePopede: "smplayer -aspect 9:16 20151024_144403.mp4" gives "MPlayer/mpv has finished unexpectedly. Exit code: 1" |
| 17:41.24 | EdePopede | gvth: shouldn't happen. just tested it with native mplayer from stretch, isn't a problem. but possibly this depends on the codec, some may have problems. |
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| 17:42.22 | gvth | "mplayer -aspect 9:16 20151024_144403.mp4" plays the video but also distorted |
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| 17:45.41 | EdePopede | is it only the aspect? or are there blocks which seem shifted? |
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| 17:46.13 | EdePopede | i'v seen this sometimes in mplayer depending on other windows partially overlapping the player |
| 17:46.49 | gvth | no shifted blocks, only the aspect is incorrect |
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| 17:48.13 | EdePopede | maybe the pixel ratio isn't 1:1. (think PAL: 720x576, but 4:3 screen) |
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| 17:50.16 | EdePopede | you could try to play with the aspect untill it looks good and the value is reasonable (eg (16:9)/(5/4) or some of the non-standard ones) and this should work for the mobile videos then |
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| 17:53.07 | gvth | EdePopede: Unfortunately, smplayer gives in the selection of aspect ratios no option to choose ratios which have more pixels vertically than horizontally |
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| 17:54.00 | EdePopede | oh wait. smplayer is GUI only? |
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| 17:54.20 | EdePopede | isn't there a swith portrait/landscape at least? |
| 17:54.49 | gvth | swith? |
| 17:55.21 | gvth | you mean switch? I haven't found one |
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| 17:57.09 | EdePopede | the last 2 messages may help https://sourceforge.net/p/smplayer/bugs/785/ |
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| 17:58.15 | EdePopede | "adding --keepaspect to the 'Options'" sounds like the design vlc uses - having a commandline in the dialog |
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| 18:07.01 | ChmEarl | FightingFalcon, `python -v` opens a python shell with a bunch of imported modules... its independent of the OS and is harmless unless you start coding |
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| 18:07.53 | FightingFalcon | ChmEarl, thanks |
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| 18:09.06 | juko | hi all |
| 18:09.37 | gvth | EdePopede: yes, adding "-keepaspect" to the options solved the problem. Thanks a lot for your time and effort :) |
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| 18:09.46 | EdePopede | \o/ |
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| 18:26.01 | rupey | hi, is it possible to trace on with what devices a program interacts? |
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| 18:26.33 | choice | Hello! Trying to add an ssh key to my Github so I don't have to type a pw all the time. Holy moly is this complicated! |
| 18:26.36 | choice | Is the text in /root/.ssh/mykey.pub what I should copy over to Github? |
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| 18:30.11 | afifah_salshabil | Ehy guys I'm trying to install Debian over hardware raid, thought when getting to disks configurations I get displayed 4 different hard disks an no reference to the raid. It's the first time I try hardware raid over Softare one, what am I missing :(? |
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| 18:36.50 | rwp | choice, Yes and no. No because you should not be running as root yourself. So stop that immediately. Create non-root account and use it instead of root's account. |
| 18:37.14 | choice | rwp: I figured it out meanwhile. I had to tell ssh about the key in /root/.ssh/config |
| 18:37.23 | rwp | choice, And no because it should be ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub and making it a different name will just cause you more problems because it won't be the expected name for ssh-agent. |
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| 18:38.30 | rwp | afifah_salshabil, If you are using hardware raid then the raid is done behind the device. The device presented just looks like a normal non-raid device. |
| 18:38.58 | rwp | afifah_salshabil, It is only if you use software raid that you see the underlying devices that are used to assemble into the raid'd resulting 'md' (multi-device) device. |
| 18:39.47 | rwp | And hopefully you are using a good quality hardware raid card (good) and not the cheap onboard BIOS raid (many bad experiences). |
| 18:40.01 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: thank you a lot. |
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| 18:40.53 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: unluckily I'm trying out the on-board one, I was thinking to buy a dedicated card but I wanted to experience a bit with some cheap hardware first before buying a good card for my workstation! |
| 18:41.36 | rwp | One of the problems that the cheap onboard bios raid often has is that at some point in the future the motherboard dies. Then you say, I have my data on raid! I'll just put those disks into another motherboard, and find that the other motherboard onboard BIOS raid does things differently and will not recognize your old data. |
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| 18:42.14 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: so saying I'll install the main os on a fifth device, I usually use the raid to run a virtual machine on it (which will be the os I'll actually use!). Since the disks are listed as single things, where should I actually put my virtual machine files?? |
| 18:42.18 | rwp | Regardless (just a reminder) raid is not backup! Therefore you would then need to restore from backup. |
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| 18:43.05 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: thanks for the advice once again |
| 18:43.23 | rwp | Clarification? You say 5th device. Therefore you are using 4 devices in a single raid? Or 2+2? Or?? |
| 18:43.51 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: you're right I didn't tell that. It's a raid 10, 2+2 |
| 18:44.34 | rwp | Gotcha. Then you would see 2 devices, right? One being the RAID10 device and one being the "5th" device which is just the single drive, right? So on Debian you would see two devcies? |
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| 18:46.07 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: on the scsi controller bios I see 2 correctly configutated, on Debian I see scsi1 (the fifth device) plus 4 scsi disks listed all with the same name but of course at different addresses |
| 18:46.35 | rwp | If it is hardware raid then you shouldn't see any more than the one single raided device. If you are seeing the individual devices then that concerns me. |
| 18:47.18 | rwp | However BIOS raid is all different with every bios. They _might_ be doing something unusual in any given BIOS. Since all are unique. |
| 18:47.58 | rwp | If they presented each individual disk *and also* a single raid device I could see that happening. But then never write to the underlying raid component devices as that would corrupt the raid. |
| 18:48.00 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: so I guess your assumption may be right and the shitty onboard controller is already showing its awfullness |
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| 18:48.21 | rwp | In which case you may be getting a good life experience lesson using them. :-/ |
| 18:48.34 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: ahahahah |
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| 18:48.53 | rwp | However you are the person on the scene. The boots on the ground. You need to use your best judgement about assessing what is happening. |
| 18:49.11 | rwp | We out here on the net are working with incomplete information and can only pass along our best guess. Often wrong! |
| 18:49.19 | afifah_salshabil | Fact his: I'd retry to create the raid BUT it takes literally 3 hours to configure it. It's so damn endless |
| 18:49.57 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: well I will do my best. Trsut me I needed some clarifications and you gave me the right informations |
| 18:50.02 | rwp | Working with big data can take some time. Especially things like setting up encryption where it wants to lay down random bits first and things like that. Takes a long time across a big array! |
| 18:50.26 | rwp | Sometimes if you are just trying to test things and learn it is good to find an old pair of SATA 40GB drives from someone's junk pile. Then play with them. |
| 18:50.53 | rwp | The smaller disks make things go much faster and you can spin through multiple combinations more quickly and then decide on what you want to do and then do it with the bigger drives. |
| 18:51.18 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: I think I will switch to these smaller drives, I have plenty lying around. At least until I get it working correctly! |
| 18:52.04 | afifah_salshabil | I begun messing with raid since I had to study the "theory" for a uni exam and I wanted to put my hands on it, but in reality everything is way more messy than on books xD |
| 18:52.30 | rwp | A couple of years ago I bought a 60GB SSD fron Newegg. The shipment arrived and Newegg had thrown in a new 30GB SSD as a bonus just to empty their inventory of those quickly devaluing items! |
| 18:53.15 | rwp | Re: "messy" You are discovering the difference between academic knowledge and hands on experience! :-) |
| 18:53.33 | rwp | Nothing replaces getting your hands dirty with hands on experience. |
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| 18:53.58 | afifah_salshabil | Ooh that's cool. I was thinking about getting some cheap tiny SSDs too coz they'd be pretty much useful in some situations |
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| 18:54.55 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: true! I see the difference betweene and my friends who just give attention to passing the exams, when meeting unexpected situations they go crazy while having an actual experience makes everything easier |
| 18:55.56 | afifah_salshabil | They went crazy when I showed them you can turn a int point into a chat array with a type cast eheh sounds dumb, but It was useful when messing with microcontroller and they'd never thought something like that! |
| 18:56.27 | afifah_salshabil | Int pointer* char array* (phone auto correction I'm sorry) |
| 18:56.44 | rwp | I could spell correct it on my side and know you were talking about C programming. :-) |
| 18:57.33 | rwp | Yes C is a high level assembly language! Very powerful! But sharp kitchen knives can also slice fingers. So one must be careful when doing such things. |
| 18:57.53 | t3st3r | turning int pointer to char array sounds a bit unsafe at best. |
| 18:58.41 | rwp | The concept to learn there is that the machine is executing opcodes (machine instructions) doing *exactly* what you tell it. Which may not be wise. Or bug free. |
| 18:58.53 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: I know. But unluckily I have so much fun when doing the dirtiest moves in c eheh |
| 18:59.08 | rwp | I think it is a good mental model of the machine to understand. |
| 18:59.37 | rwp | These days I have been trying to re-thread myself into Go-lang and Rust. Too early for me to talk intelligently about them. But they are interesting so far. |
| 19:01.13 | rwp | The {Go,Python,Perl,Ruby,Lua,Lisp} programmer says, "Memory is too important to be handling manually. The system should manage it for you." The C programmer says, "Memory is too important to leave to others to manage. You should manage it yourself." |
| 19:01.27 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: I've never got in contact with them. Honestly, I do not know anything Bout them but their name |
| 19:01.33 | t3st3r | afifah_salshabil> this approach could lead to bugged code that, say, fails in unexpected ways on different arch, etc. |
| 19:01.50 | rwp | Life and time is what keeps everything from happening all at once. |
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| 19:02.24 | t3st3r | p.s. I don't like assumption is "programmer is an idiot". Maybe that's why I like C. |
| 19:02.44 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: I like that quote. When I use python I hate not even being able to use defines (like seriously? I should create a variable just for that????) And when using c I miss python easeness and the indentation |
| 19:02.50 | rwp | I like C too. Don't let my critique pass as saying I am against it. It is still my reach-for language of choice. |
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| 19:03.24 | rwp | But I am an advocate of the right tool for the task. C can be used for every task but other languages are often a better fit for many tasks. |
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| 19:04.10 | afifah_salshabil | t3st3r: I know. Of course the context made sense, I would never do such aggressive type casts if not really needed |
| 19:04.40 | untakenstupidnic | I have switched from python to C and find it easier |
| 19:04.47 | afifah_salshabil | We were writing a tiny blockchain to run over microcontrollers and we ran out of memory so some desperate choice had to be made |
| 19:04.58 | untakenstupidnic | weak typing and goto are a big deal of ease |
| 19:05.50 | rwp | Ah... Your comment of memory is a good one. Python may be good at prototyping quickly. But for bit-twiddling C is definitely a better, faster, more memory efficient language. |
| 19:06.01 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: I agree with you about your position over c. Complex not time crictical project are too hard to be handled in C |
| 19:07.01 | afifah_salshabil | It's like those who want to use shell scripting like it was an alternative to real programming languages, shell scripting it's cool but it cannot be considered an actual alternative (I met a few people that didn't actually share my opinion lol) |
| 19:08.08 | rwp | C is a good language for the programmer with discipline. But the problem is that many programmers do not have discipline over memmory use and use of C without discipline leads to nasty bugs. That is why garbage collection languages are better for prototyping. |
| 19:08.19 | t3st3r | python, etc provoke crappy programming where rapid development is the only advantage. However, rapid prototype-stlye development inevitably leads to overall low quality. |
| 19:08.35 | t3st3r | Hmm maybe we're better off to #debian-offtopic? |
| 19:08.42 | gislaved | anyone familiar with ifupdown2 ? I need to restart a bridge with all the assigned tap interfaces |
| 19:08.54 | rwp | Shell scripting was designed as a command and control language to invoke what at the time were all assembly or C programs to do the actual work. It's quite good for that purpose. |
| 19:09.20 | rwp | t3st3r is of course correct. |
| 19:09.37 | afifah_salshabil | rwp: and honestly, a the performance of a bad written c program are not so better than a well written python script |
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| 19:09.39 | rwp | gislaved, What is your bridge named? |
| 19:09.54 | gislaved | rwp vmbr11 |
| 19:10.15 | rwp | gislaved, You are not using the interface logged in remotely? Be a shame to down the interface while you are using it! :-/ |
| 19:10.42 | gislaved | rwp ? eh ? what do you mean ? |
| 19:10.51 | gislaved | I can just restart it |
| 19:10.55 | rwp | gislaved, 'ifdown vmbr11' will bring it down. 'ifup vmbr11' will bring it up. (And if one has no errors one can 'ifdown vmbr11 ; ifup vmbr11' and it will work while you are logged in remotely. But there is always the risk... |
| 19:11.13 | gislaved | rwp no risks |
| 19:11.22 | gislaved | the issue is, the tap interfaces are not reassigned |
| 19:12.00 | rwp | Can you pastebin your interfaces file so we can see the details? paste.debian.net is good for that purpose. |
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| 19:12.39 | gislaved | rwp I think it doesn't matter what the interfaces are... I just think ifupdown2 doesn't do what it should |
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| 19:20.15 | untakenstupidnic | Is it a good idea to put sources inside a .deb and compile via postinst? |
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| 19:21.34 | rwp | untakenstupidnic, I think that is not a good idea. But that is without context. |
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| 19:29.53 | OnkelTem | Hi folks |
| 19:30.37 | OnkelTem | Which sendmail utility you'd recommend for a simple web server? I need to send mail ONLY through a basic SMTP server |
| 19:31.53 | GNU\colossus | try nullmailer? |
| 19:32.18 | OnkelTem | As a matter of fact, I'm not even going to use real SMTP servers. I need to discard all mail to locally running MailHog instance |
| 19:32.20 | GNU\colossus | if that doesn't work for you, postfix's "smarthost" config template will do fine |
| 19:32.45 | OnkelTem | GNU\colossus: I'll check nullmailer |
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| 19:44.33 | Greyztar | hello,after installing vnc4server login just loops back to login screen and im unable to login for that user,root works,tried uninstalling vnc4server no luck,where to start looking? |
| 19:44.57 | Greyztar | im using xfce4 |
| 19:45.42 | rwp | Greyztar, vnc4server is pretty much unrelated to your problem. You said root can login? I suspect then that some files in your ~/ became chown'd to root. |
| 19:46.07 | Greyztar | rwp: right ill check that |
| 19:46.44 | rwp | Greyztar, If it were me I would Control-Alt-F1 (or -F2) and log in without X and then check files. Then Control-Alt-Right repeatedly until getting back to the X login to try it. |
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| 19:47.29 | Greyztar | rwp: thank you very much ill try that solution,i suspect theres a permission problem already |
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| 19:48.24 | rwp | Greyztar, It is also possible that something in the ~/ dot files is corrupted killing the login. If so then try starting at a fresh $HOME for a debug test. If that works then you know the problem is in your $HOME somewhere. Can swap out files and get back to a working state. |
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| 19:50.16 | DarkDay | Hi |
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| 19:54.31 | Greyztar | rwp: .Xauthority had changed ownership some mysterious way =) Thank you very much im all good now (,") |
| 19:54.54 | rwp | Greyztar, Good to hear! :-) |
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| 20:07.45 | justthedoctor | i am running Deb Release: 8.11 and i upgrade my openssl by compiling from source to 1.0.1t i need to go back to openssl 1.0.1f |
| 20:07.52 | justthedoctor | can anyone please recommend how i would do this? |
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| 20:28.29 | rwp | ,v openssl |
| 20:28.30 | judd | Package: openssl on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u8; jessie-security: 1.0.1t-1+deb8u11; stretch: 1.1.0j-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.1.0j-1~deb9u1; sid: 1.1.1a-1; buster: 1.1.1b-1 |
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| 20:29.58 | rwp | justthedoctor, You are saying that your source does not compile with 1.0.1t? And you want to try compiling it with 1.0.1f installed? Is that right? That seems very unusual. |
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| 20:30.27 | justthedoctor | rwp, i installed 1.0.1t using make / make install |
| 20:30.32 | rwp | justthedoctor, I think that is not likely to be a good idea but you can look through https://snapshot.debian.org/package/openssl/ and select previous versions and install them. |
| 20:30.41 | justthedoctor | now i want to revert to 1.0.1f and it wont install, |
| 20:31.12 | OnkelTem | How comes that "DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive" doesn't DISABLE interactive configuration of a package? |
| 20:31.17 | OnkelTem | I was sure it is enough |
| 20:31.20 | rwp | How did you install when you compiled from source? Did you install into the /usr/local tree? (Hopefully yes.) |
| 20:31.27 | OnkelTem | I'm bulding image using Dockerfile |
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| 20:32.07 | rwp | If so, then you can remove the files from /usr/local first and then try again. But why not use the known working good debian package? |
| 20:32.09 | justthedoctor | rwp: how would i install https://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20140106T220635Z/pool/main/o/openssl/openssl_1.0.1f-1.debian.tar.gz with apt-get or dpkg? |
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| 20:32.27 | justthedoctor | rwp: 1.0.1t was me replacing the good known working deb package |
| 20:32.41 | justthedoctor | the one that was installed when i installed deb |
| 20:32.57 | rwp | Again, if you installed your local copy into /usr/local then all is good! :-) |
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| 20:33.12 | rwp | OnkelTem, You need a few more things for a completely non-interacive installation. |
| 20:33.49 | OnkelTem | rwp: hm, so... ideas? |
| 20:34.07 | rwp | I use: env UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS=1 DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive DEBCONF_ADMIN_EMAIL="" apt-get -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confnew -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confmiss install ... |
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| 20:34.21 | OnkelTem | omfg |
| 20:34.27 | OnkelTem | That's huge! :) |
| 20:34.51 | rwp | With those selections I pre-choose to install the new pristine copy of any conffile. Then I run my own version of cfengine/puppet/chef/ansible which configures all to my liking. |
| 20:35.35 | rwp | Oh, also -y for the confirmation to install too. (And now you know why I had to pause to go look it up.) |
| 20:35.39 | OnkelTem | sure |
| 20:35.48 | OnkelTem | yeah :) |
| 20:36.29 | OnkelTem | rwp: thank you very much, I'm gonna try it now. Let's see what nails it... |
| 20:36.53 | rwp | If you want the currently installed version of a conffile (any file in /etc is a conffile) then force-confdef will do the default answer. |
| 20:38.11 | rwp | force-confmiss is because some years ago an individual argued that if they wanted to remove a conffile that removing it was a local admin change and must be preserved. Argued successfully. And so now if you accidentally delete a file from /etc it will not be replaced as that removal is seen as an explicit local action. Therefore --force-confmiss to restore it in that case. |
| 20:40.11 | rwp | The use of "env" there is because that is the standard way to document something that will work even if I don't know what shell you are using. Not using env in that line works for bash but blows chunks if the user is using tcsh or some other shells. So people like me use env there as a simple way to avoid the problem of explaining that part. |
| 20:40.41 | rwp | [~blarg@unaffiliated/tyranny12] has joined #debian |
| 20:40.42 | rwp | 14:32 < rwp> If so, then you can remove the files from /usr/local first and then try again. But why not use the known working good debian package? |
| 20:40.46 | rwp | Oopopopps. |
| 20:41.21 | rwp | justthedoctor, You wanted 1.0.1f-1 but why not -5? |
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| 20:42.06 | rwp | justthedoctor, For the binary package you would install https://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20170825T100453Z/pool/main/o/openssl/libssl1.1_1.1.0f-5_amd64.deb for example. |
| 20:42.34 | OnkelTem | rwp: imagine, it doesn't work still. Using this command line now: |
| 20:42.42 | OnkelTem | apt-get -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confmiss -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confdef -o DPkg::Options::=--force-confnew install -y --no-install-recommends nullmailer |
| 20:43.04 | OnkelTem | with prefixes: DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS=1 |
| 20:43.12 | rwp | Strike that last. I snafu'd the versions. Sorry. |
| 20:43.58 | rwp | justthedoctor, One of the binary packages from here: https://snapshot.debian.org/package/openssl/1.0.1f-1/#openssl_1.0.1f-1 |
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| 20:44.42 | rwp | OnkelTem, Ah... I think I see. The postinst is probably asking questions. Let me go look at it. You can too. In /var/lib/dpkg/info/nullmailer.postinst script. |
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| 20:46.31 | rwp | Looks like for nullmailer one needs to pre-seed nullmailer/defaultdomain and nullmailer/relayhost before the installation. |
| 20:47.21 | rwp | OnkelTem, At that point I know the debconf preseed needs to be done. But I forget the best way to do it to automate your container installation. I will fish a little... |
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| 20:48.30 | OnkelTem | rwp: yeah, I know its conf files. I configure them later, when container is created.. |
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| 20:49.50 | rwp | Are you starting from a nothing installation building the entire container from scratch? Or incrementally installing on an existing container? |
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| 20:50.18 | rwp | Are you already preseeding other configuration items? |
| 20:50.21 | jeffrin | hello all |
| 20:50.29 | jeffrin | what does 4:17-52 mean in the following ..../dev/stdin:4:17-52: Error: Could not process rule: No such file or directory |
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| 20:50.51 | ryouma | rwp: i was just about to run apt-get -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confdef" -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confold" dist-upgrade. so i know to add confmiss also now. but i wonder what else i need there? |
| 20:50.52 | rwp | jeffrin, From what tool? What context? |
| 20:51.38 | rwp | ryouma, Aren't force-confdef and force-confold toggling? (I can't remember, is the last one the one that takes effect there?) |
| 20:51.57 | OnkelTem | rwp: I start with a docker hub image php:7.2-apache and configure it further |
| 20:52.23 | jeffrin | rwp : iam executed a shell script to test NAT related stuff |
| 20:52.35 | rwp | OnkelTem, You might try putting the files into place first before the install and see if that is sufficient. Because then it would be seen as existing configuration and preserved. I think. Not sure. But worth a try. |
| 20:52.48 | OnkelTem | rwp: everything worked for 2 years until now, with this coffin nail - nullmailer who doesn't respect "noninteractive" |
| 20:52.50 | OnkelTem | :) |
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| 20:53.19 | ryouma | rwp: i would think they would be idempotent. if not, that soudns really bad. i have to find out the default? you need both i think. but i was wondering if i also needed more options like -y or ucf whatever (which is, idk what that is). |
| 20:53.25 | rwp | I like nullmailer well enough and use it myself. But there are other similar options to choose from. Might be easy to sample the field. |
| 20:54.52 | OnkelTem | rwp: eh, I cannot do that. Because this is a generic image and is intented to be configured later - when "booting". Sure I can seed some stub files, but this would look like a patch on the clean body of my Dockerfile :-/ |
| 20:55.14 | rwp | ryouma, It is answering the dpkg question when a conffile has changed and a new one is to be installed. You know the dialog. The set of questions asking if you want the old file or the new file. It has a default at that time. |
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| 20:56.01 | ryouma | oh i know the force-whatever answers that. i just dk if i need more stuff on the command line like you and your correspodnent above have |
| 20:56.05 | rwp | OnkelTem, Someone the other day told me they liked another one better than nullmailer. Was it ssmtp? I don't remember. Sorry. But you might try it. |
| 20:56.34 | OnkelTem | rwp: thanks, I'll do some researches then |
| 20:57.28 | rwp | ryouma, I don't think anything more is needed. However(!) some packages, outside of debian, do force questions in the postinst. The old Java packages come to mind asking for EULA acceptance. Those types of 3rd party things always need special handling. |
| 20:58.38 | rwp | OnkelTem, I would think that you would want some type of debian-installer preseed capability for other packages you are installing. If so then you could slip this config in there. |
| 20:58.39 | OnkelTem | rwp: you were right, it's called exactly ssmtp. Just 236Kb along with one more required package. |
| 20:58.52 | rwp | OnkelTem, https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apb.html |
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| 20:59.25 | rwp | I would be interested to have feedback on if that is a good alternative to nullmailer. I imagine it would be. |
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| 21:00.09 | rwp | Note that I haven't used it. But it is in the Debian archive. |
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| 21:03.36 | OnkelTem | rwp: well, I disliked nullmailer from the beginning as I don't need its "daemon" capabilities. I need just a simple smtp client (w/o any queues) to be used as a backend for PHP development instance |
| 21:04.43 | OnkelTem | and even SMTP server is not real - Mailhog, all-catching service |
| 21:05.11 | OnkelTem | So I was looking for a most simple solution. I'll some feedback in few minutes, when I have it working |
| 21:05.19 | OnkelTem | I'll give+ |
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| 21:06.28 | ryouma | rwp: ok, i will try it. i like the4 idea of minimal interaction, dumping new stuff in .dpkg files, then merging. i am afraid that if i do your default-new options, stuff will occur in the bg using those conffiles. i'd rather cron stuff break from having an old conffile i think. |
| 21:06.46 | ryouma | (this is for upgrading from jessie to stretch) |
| 21:07.18 | rwp | ryouma, When dpkg installs a new/old version of a conffile it places the olo/new version into a /etc/foo.dpkg-old or /etc/foo.dpkg.new file. |
| 21:07.34 | rwp | Can then use 'find /etc -name '*.dpkg-*' to go find those and manually handle them. One way or another. |
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| 21:07.54 | rwp | Or automate their configuration using puppet/chef/ansible/whatever (which is what I do) |
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| 21:08.31 | rwp | Within a stable release stream of point releases then choosing the old/default version is probaby just fine. Since there *shouldn't be* radical changes. |
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| 21:08.59 | rwp | However when upgrading from one stable to the next stable, or when riding Sid/Testing, then from one random package version to the next the configuration files might change radically. |
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| 21:09.29 | rwp | In that case it all depends upon what you want. *I* want to have the new config file configured as I want it for the small detail I want. But regardless it means choices must be made. |
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| 21:09.58 | rwp | So for example Postfix changed from one set of chroot defaults to the opposite default a while back. If I keep the old file then I keep the old defaults. But I want the new defaults. |
| 21:10.46 | rwp | But I want the new defaults so I get the new version of the config file and then my scripts change the myhostname and mydestination and other parameters as I have programmed it to do. Just the small incremental config that I need. But the rest of the config is new. |
| 21:11.13 | ryouma | not sure what i will do to merge. i figured using cat >| file to preserve permissions, then use etckeeper's git to select lines or something. i am not willing to learn a whole ansible whatever atm. i like your workflow but i think it is not for me. |
| 21:11.14 | rwp | That mostly works great, and should work across a stable release stream. But in Sid it does sometimes break, as Sid is a turmultuous place. |
| 21:11.35 | rwp | etckeeper FTW! Good tool! |
| 21:11.49 | ryouma | dunno if it does anything for me here except just be a git |
| 21:11.54 | rwp | I am just presenting options. You get to choose what you are doing. :-) |
| 21:12.01 | ryouma | :) |
| 21:13.02 | rwp | The choices made also depend upon how many systems (or containers!) you are maintaining. A single desktop and/or laptop? Or dozens in a production environment? Or hundreds/thousands in another environment? |
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| 21:13.28 | rwp | I come from a background where at one time I managed 3856 machines at a peak! So I script *everything*! |
| 21:13.38 | ryouma | not sure if i need UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS=1 or the email one or noninteractive or --no-install-recommends or -y though |
| 21:13.44 | rwp | But for a one-off desktop, then just do something one-off! :-) |
| 21:14.02 | ryouma | that is an impressive number |
| 21:14.20 | ryouma | yeah just one machine |
| 21:14.42 | ryouma | i like scripting everythign too but i think i might draw the line at ansible or whatever in this case so i can get up and running |
| 21:15.20 | rwp | For one off machines that I just want it to be non-interactive then I often will go "find /etc -name '*.dpkg-*'" and just deal with the list afterward. Much easier than answering dpkg's questions that pop up at random seeming times. |
| 21:16.10 | ryouma | ok but what does noninteractive do that my force confold force confmiss stuff does not do? |
| 21:16.32 | ryouma | and what does ucf_force_conffmiss=1 do that the command line option doesn't do? |
| 21:16.55 | ryouma | i am afraid of -y though |
| 21:16.59 | rwp | Good question! You know... I forget! I have been doing that for so long I forget what it is supposed to do now. I will need to go dig into it! |
| 21:17.12 | ryouma | hehe |
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| 21:17.42 | rwp | ucf_force_conffmiss is for the UCF diff tool. For packagers that did not like the dpkg interface they can choose to use the ucf tool to give a different (prettier?) dialog. |
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| 21:18.09 | rwp | So it is for those tools. If you want to bypass both then you need both. |
| 21:19.22 | xcombelle | it is a pity that python-stdlib-extensions packages are not in default installation of guifull packages, it makes python stdlib a pain of ass |
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| 21:19.53 | ryouma | rwp: ok i will add that. seems like i might not need -y though if i9 am forcing confold as it might not ask me (i am guessing) |
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| 21:20.57 | rwp | The -y is for apt-get to answer the [Y/n] question. |
| 21:21.54 | rwp | ryouma, OnkelTem, With DEBIAN_FRONTEND there are some useful things that can be done. Here is a hack I am doing in one place that you might find interesting. http://paste.debian.net/1076603/ |
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| 21:25.41 | ryouma | the y/n question about upgrading packages? that only gets done once. so maybe you mean for dpkg or ucf? but i thought the force options would obviate that. |
| 21:27.05 | rwp | The [Y/n] question at the start. That is what the -y addresses. Only that part. It doesn't affect anything that happens after that part. |
| 21:27.20 | rwp | ryouma, DEBIAN_FRONTEND docs https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/debconf-doc/debconf.7.en.html |
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| 21:29.56 | ryouma | ah great so no -y needed. a little afraid of noninteractive. don't want to babysit forever, but if i have force confold and ... hmm maybe there is a ucf equivalent ... then what would remain that would require my answers? |
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| 21:31.17 | ryouma | (looks like i can use UCF_FORCE_CONFFOLD=1) |
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| 21:45.03 | ryouma | hmm, rwp your UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS=1 is not documented in jessie. must be new. |
| 21:45.15 | ryouma | and confold is default |
| 21:45.22 | ryouma | (unlike dpkg) |
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| 21:49.16 | rwp | ryouma, Hmm... UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS seems to have been old and now removed! Looking at: less /usr/bin/ucf it isn't there now. But it was documented before. |
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| 21:50.32 | rwp | ryouma, Oops. I had a typo in my search. It's there. less +/UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS /usr/bin/ucf |
| 21:51.09 | rwp | is battling a cold (again) and my sinuses just won't stop. It is getting in the way of thinking clearly. |
| 21:53.03 | rwp | Also https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/ucf/ucf.1.en.html has it documented too. |
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| 21:53.37 | ryouma | i was wrong. dpkg and ucf both default to ask of course. |
| 21:54.10 | ryouma | ucf does not document confmiss in jessie, so newer than that i guess |
| 21:54.48 | rwp | I feel confident it existed before then, but maybe it didn't make it to documented until after? |
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| 21:56.13 | rwp | It I see it in Jessie. I see UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS in Wheezy. Not sure how far back to look. |
| 21:56.53 | ryouma | i am doing man ucf.conf, which documents confold but not confmiss |
| 21:57.11 | ryouma | um, conffold, with 2 f! |
| 21:57.30 | ryouma | just to be inconsistent :) |
| 21:58.03 | ryouma | still not there with 2 f |
| 22:00.29 | rwp | https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/ucf/ucf.1.en.html look down in "ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES" header section. UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS is there. |
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| 22:03.12 | rwp | Fun with software archeology today... |
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| 22:06.04 | jeffrin | anyway thanks |
| 22:06.20 | ryouma | rwp: yeah it's there in ucf, just not in ucf-conf. everybody seems to use YES instead of 1 but 1 must work. |
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| 22:06.32 | ryouma | (the others are in ucf-conf and documented) |
| 22:07.34 | rwp | The test in the script is: elif [ ! "x$UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS" = "x" ]; then so it is simply testing if it is set to anything non-zero length. |
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| 22:08.08 | rwp | In a rather un-idiomatic-shell way. More idiomatic would be [ -n "$UCF_FORCE_CONFFMISS" ] there. |
| 22:08.12 | ryouma | so it's all solved except what noninteractive does if i have those force options. i guess my big concern is grub. i don't want that to screw up or try to change a disk i do not want changed etc. can that be special-cased? |
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| 22:08.26 | ryouma | ah |
| 22:08.54 | rwp | It does seem now that noninteractive is obviated by the --force-conf* options. |
| 22:09.48 | rwp | I remember adding them to my commands one at a time for various reasons. --force-conf* I acquired into my toolbox later and therefore maybe now DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive is no longer needed. |
| 22:10.41 | rwp | A good improvement! Thank you for the team effort here! |
| 22:10.48 | ryouma | ah |
| 22:11.04 | ryouma | thank you for the help. this is what i have now. please criticize as needed! https://termbin.com/j091 |
| 22:11.18 | rwp | Note that DEBIAN_FRONTEND mentioned DEBCONF_ADMIN_EMAIL. I am sure that is why I acquired that one too. |
| 22:11.40 | ryouma | you mean it is also obviated? |
| 22:12.46 | rwp | Not necessarily. Just where it came into the process. I think it will still be needed for a fully automated installation. Otherwise apt-listchanges or whatever will email root with the info that you will have seen a zillion times before. |
| 22:13.22 | rwp | I am still not understanding having *both* --force-confdef and --force-confold together. Looking at the man page... |
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| 22:13.33 | rwp | I think you just want --force-confold in that case. |
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| 22:14.14 | rwp | Ah... You are correct. Both are useful. |
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| 22:15.35 | rwp | But I am not yet understanding when dpkg will have a default action and when it will not. That is missing for me. |
| 22:16.19 | ryouma | i want apt-listchanges to show everything on the console, not to email root. but i don't need to specify that do i? |
| 22:18.26 | rwp | In the end after these types of tweaks you will need to run some tests and determine if the result is what is wanted or not. |
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| 22:20.30 | ryouma | i have already set apt-listchanges to do what i want, so i think i don't need to specify it. the only question is making grub configuratio0n interactive. but that might not be possible. |
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| 22:22.25 | justthedoctor | rwp: i have managed to get the version of openssl i need installed to a different directory, would you mind giving me a hand on how i would include that into the compile for a make -f makefile.unix make command? i can link you a copy of the makefile.unix |
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| 22:22.29 | ryouma | my guess is that with confold and confdef, dpkg will overwrite unchanged stuff and preserve changed stuff, at least from the docs, and then confmiss will add missing stuff. not sure if thre is anything else. |
| 22:23.46 | ryouma | eh, probably not that many packages use ucf. grub does. so i will just default that one |
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| 22:24.23 | rwp | ryouma, It's that "If there is no default action..." part that confuses me. In what case would there be no default action? |
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| 22:25.03 | rwp | Not many use ucf. I don't really prefer it, since it is simply yet another thing I need to worry about. But it isn't bad as such. |
| 22:25.45 | rwp | justthedoctor, The compile? For which program? If you have openssl installed in a local directory and another program needs it then that is usually needing to be pointed to it. |
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| 22:26.19 | rwp | That could be a compile time flag using -I and -L to gcc. Or if using configure then the package may have a higher level option of pointing to it using a configure variable. |
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| 22:27.09 | rwp | And all of this while it just feels like using a local openssl is a painfully hard way to do things that perhaps are not needed to be done at all. |
| 22:29.19 | ryouma | rwp: i see your question (went to dpkg man page). i can only assume a package can say that there is no default and the user must supply an answer, or somethign. but that must be wrong else you'd have known it. |
| 22:30.55 | rwp | For the real answer I think we would need to look at the dpkg source and see what it is doing in the code at the point that uses force-confdef. That is probably the only authoritive documentation on it. |
| 22:31.59 | rwp | In any case, including both as you have done seems to follow the documented path correctly! Good enough! Other than to satisfy curiosity. |
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| 22:45.10 | justthedoctor | rwp: i figured it out, thank you for your help! |
| 22:45.19 | rwp | Oh good! |
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| 22:46.15 | ryouma | yeah. this is my final version (i think): https://termbin.com/fzsj |
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| 23:32.03 | ryouma | what is the difference between --with-new-pkgs and dist-upgrade? |
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| 23:55.16 | rwp | ryouma, --with-new-pkgs allows adding new packages to the solution set. dist-upgrade does that but also allows removing packages as a solution too. So upgrade --with-new-packages is perfect for Stable upgrades. |
| 23:55.55 | rwp | Safer than dist-upgrade which might find the solution set is to remove everything. |
| 23:57.52 | ryouma | rwp: thank you. i have been using dist-upgrade for stable upgrades because kernel abi changes do not get presented for upgrade. but sometimes even that doesnot make them get presented. maybe upgrade --with-new-packages will work. is it ok to use --with-new-pkgs with dist-upgrade? or meaningless? |
| 23:58.12 | rwp | I think meaningless there. |
| 23:59.03 | rwp | My normal set of actions is upgrade then upgrade --with-new-pkgs mostly without thinking, then dist-upgrade and look very carefully at what it is doing if anything is left to be done. |
| 23:59.05 | ryouma | ok. then after the dist-upgrade my regular practice will be the combination with upgrade |