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| 00:30.54 | karlpinc | mishehu: Would the kernel command line cpufreq.off=1 choice do what you want? (I sure don't know.) |
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| 00:32.46 | mishehu | karlpinc: sounds like that would probably be an option there to throw into grub. I'll test it out as soon as I can reboot the system. |
| 00:33.14 | mishehu | I hope newer debians have opted for ondemand at least... it's a bit more responsive than powersave. |
| 00:33.42 | karlpinc | mishehu: There's always rc.local. :-| |
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| 00:49.27 | mishehu | karlpinc: edict from above me was "no, no rc.local". |
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| 00:52.17 | Jazztronaut | QUESTION! |
| 00:52.28 | Jazztronaut | I am on Debian stable (updated. Stretch.) |
| 00:52.46 | Jazztronaut | I would like to install a package from the buster repository. |
| 00:52.51 | Jazztronaut | I don't see it in backports. |
| 00:53.03 | Jazztronaut | I don't want to upgrade to testing, I want to keep stable. |
| 00:53.22 | Jazztronaut | Is there a way I can use 1 package from buster, when I'm on stretch? |
| 00:53.31 | Jazztronaut | The package is purple-discord |
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| 00:56.44 | jmcnaught | Jazztronaut: you can't mix stable and testing. You could try to backport the package yourself. |
| 00:56.51 | jmcnaught | judd: checkbackport purple-discord |
| 00:56.54 | judd | Backporting package purple-discord in sidâstretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11). |
| 00:57.00 | jmcnaught | maybe not |
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| 00:59.21 | rant | ,v debhelper-compat |
| 00:59.22 | judd | No package named 'debhelper-compat' was found in amd64. |
| 00:59.39 | rant | @.@ |
| 00:59.47 | rant | its not a package |
| 00:59.55 | rant | but its in stretch-backports |
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| 01:00.03 | rant | ,v debhelper |
| 01:00.04 | judd | Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; sid: 12.1.1 |
| 01:00.38 | rant | ,v purple-discord |
| 01:00.39 | judd | Package: purple-discord on amd64 -- buster: 0.9.2019.02.07.git.e5d9627-1; sid: 0.9.2019.02.07.git.e5d9627-1 |
| 01:00.53 | rant | ,depends purple-discord |
| 01:00.54 | judd | No package named 'purple-discord' was found in stretch/amd64. |
| 01:01.03 | rant | ,depends purple-discord buster |
| 01:01.04 | judd | Package purple-discord in buster/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.31.8), libjson-glib-1.0-0 (>= 0.12.0), libpurple0 (>= 2.6.0). |
| 01:02.22 | rant | dpkg, tell Jazztronaut about ssb |
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| 01:08.32 | Jazztronaut | Maybe I have to build the package from source |
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| 01:10.03 | rant | no |
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| 01:11.26 | rant | you have to put a deb-src line for buster, a stretch-backports line, in your apt sources, then install debhelper from backports then follow the rest of the ssb mantra i.e. apt source purple-discord and apt -b source purple-discord then dpkg -i purple-discord-blah.deb |
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| 01:12.08 | Jazztronaut | what does ssb stand for so I can look up documentation on it? |
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| 01:12.16 | rant | !ssb |
| 01:12.16 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 01:12.37 | Jazztronaut | thanks, I will try that! |
| 01:12.56 | rant | ah yeah, I forgot the build-dep :P |
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| 01:25.41 | Jazztronaut | rant: what does SSB stand for? I'd like to find a debian documentation page on this |
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| 01:27.26 | rant | simple sid backport |
| 01:27.42 | rant | the documentation is right there |
| 01:28.02 | rant | that factoid is all there is to it |
| 01:29.13 | Jazztronaut | Oh, sweet |
| 01:29.37 | rant | in this case you would be backporting from buster cause its not in sid |
| 01:29.53 | rant | erm.. yeah it is |
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| 01:32.34 | Jazztronaut | !ssb |
| 01:32.34 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 01:32.43 | Jazztronaut | I reconnected so I need it again :P |
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| 01:33.11 | rant | Jazztronaut: aptitude is not required.. |
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| 01:33.34 | rant | in fact I think I may change that cause aptitude isn't installed by default |
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| 01:34.11 | rant | dpkg ssb =~ s/aptitude/apt/g |
| 01:34.11 | dpkg | that doesn't contain 'aptitude', rant |
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| 01:34.28 | rant | dpkg, literal ssb |
| 01:34.29 | dpkg | "ssb" is "<reply> see simple sid backport" |
| 01:34.47 | rant | o.O |
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| 01:35.11 | rant | dpkg simple sid backport =~ s/aptitude/apt/g |
| 01:35.11 | dpkg | rant: OK |
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| 01:35.31 | rant | dpkg simple sid backport =~ s/apt-get/apt/g |
| 01:35.32 | dpkg | rant: OK |
| 01:35.36 | rant | !ssb |
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| 01:35.36 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename; apt -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 01:37.02 | rant | idk who made that use aptitude and apt-get.. kinda silly.. |
| 01:37.17 | rant | kinda stuff that will confuse people |
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| 01:42.31 | ectospasm | rant: those commands are the old way |
| 01:42.38 | ectospasm | pre-stretch |
| 01:42.54 | rant | they were never the way.. I been here and using debian over 15 years |
| 01:43.05 | rant | aptitude was never required |
| 01:43.23 | ectospasm | Well, `apt` is fairly new, compared to apt-get and aptitude. |
| 01:43.40 | ectospasm | I remember some things being cleaner with aptitude, before the command `apt` came along. |
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| 01:44.07 | rant | aptitude does have additional features like "why" advanced searching, interactive mode..etc |
| 01:44.30 | rant | but its also more cumbersome, it checks the db before and after each action, its not installed by default..etc |
| 01:44.31 | Jazztronaut | I got: |
| 01:44.32 | Jazztronaut | dpkg-buildpackage: info: binary-only upload (no source included) |
| 01:44.35 | Jazztronaut | lol |
| 01:44.44 | Jazztronaut | "W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file 'purple-discord_0.9.2019.02.07.git.e5d9627-1.dsc' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)" |
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| 01:45.07 | rant | yes you dont need to run those commands as root |
| 01:45.17 | Jazztronaut | ah |
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| 01:45.32 | rant | fetching source and building packages doesn't require root |
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| 01:45.48 | rant | only installing the resulting debs requires root |
| 01:46.32 | rant | as a general rule, you should never build anything as a root / admin user.. it could be a security risk a small mistake in a makefile could be very destructive |
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| 01:51.16 | Jazztronaut | apt build-dep purple-discord |
| 01:51.16 | Jazztronaut | E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied) |
| 01:51.16 | Jazztronaut | E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root? |
| 01:51.20 | Jazztronaut | That's what I got. |
| 01:51.28 | Jazztronaut | It requires root for that step? |
| 01:53.36 | jmcnaught | yes, "apt build-dep â¦" installs packages |
| 01:53.44 | __m4ch1n3__ | build-dep installs packages that are build dependencie for given package, installing packages on system ofcourse needs root |
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| 01:54.07 | Jazztronaut | Sweet! It worked, thanks so much |
| 01:54.37 | __m4ch1n3__ | you only need that when you want build something from source |
| 01:56.15 | __m4ch1n3__ | you would do that before compiling purple-discord from source |
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| 02:01.34 | Okee | Does sudo come installed by default in Debian? I am on a laptop that can't find it, and find this strange. I have istalled Debian on a number of other laptops and don't recall having this problem before. |
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| 02:02.08 | Jazztronaut | It didn't come when I installed debian. What I did is: |
| 02:03.02 | rant | Okee: only if you do not choose a root password otherwise its optional |
| 02:03.12 | rant | dpkg, simple sid backport =~ s/3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename; apt -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs./foobar/ |
| 02:03.12 | dpkg | OK, rant |
| 02:03.16 | rant | dpkg, simple sid backport =~ s/foobar/[AS ROOT] do 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename [AS USER] do 4) apt -b source packagename [AS ROOT] 5) dpkg -i packagename-version.deb/ |
| 02:03.17 | dpkg | that's too long, rant |
| 02:03.55 | themill | yeah, let's not try breaking things |
| 02:03.58 | Jazztronaut | su; apt install sudo; add the user to the group "sudo" (adduser <user> sudo) |
| 02:04.09 | Okee | rant> I installed a root password as a user password. For this reason sudo should be working, but it isn't. |
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| 02:04.19 | rant | themill: its fixed :P |
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| 02:04.45 | themill | clear as mud :( |
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| 02:05.00 | Okee | rant> How do Iinstll sudo? |
| 02:05.02 | rant | themill: yeah well I was looking at that.. but idk about using sudo |
| 02:05.13 | rant | Okee: apt install sudo |
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| 02:05.19 | rant | for this reason ^ |
| 02:05.22 | rant | heh |
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| 02:05.53 | themill | I think if someone is going to try making a backport, they should be comfortable with what operations need elevated provisions |
| 02:06.02 | Jazztronaut | You have to log in and out after adding your user to group "sudo" for it to work |
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| 02:06.11 | Jazztronaut | Okee: https://wiki.debian.org/sudo <--instructions |
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| 02:08.04 | rant | themill: I just removed all the parts in [] and left the one as a seperate step |
| 02:08.23 | rant | themill: so when someone mentions the warning we can just say step 4 doesnt require root :P |
| 02:11.02 | rant | Jazztronaut: thats one way of doing it |
| 02:11.38 | rant | Jazztronaut: using su - user is another.. |
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| 02:12.03 | rant | and iirc there were commands out there to refresh group memberships that do basically the same thing |
| 02:13.11 | __m4ch1n3__ | and remember changes to groups take first effect after you logged out |
| 02:14.16 | rant | yes well telling su to make a login shell works to temporarily avoid logging out of your session |
| 02:15.25 | rant | I really dont care much for sudo especially using it in any documentation when its not installed/configured by default.. really I think if we're not going to ship sudo standard we need some base package to place a link from sudo to su or something |
| 02:16.13 | rant | however when I did use it back in the day I was rather fond of the sudo -v and sudo -k lets you verify then use it many times without a password and use the -k to remove the credential |
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| 02:17.50 | rant | boggles |
| 02:19.18 | rant | appears I have encountered a bug in my graphics.. I got this T440 with the laptop display, a monitor on vga, and a tv on mindp->hdmi and chromium showing the release-critical bugs page is still showing on my vga monitor even though no chromium is running |
| 02:19.45 | rant | as I figured, unplugging and plugging it back in resolved it, but that was rather odd |
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| 03:04.30 | laptop | help |
| 03:04.34 | laptop | I have linx kernel 5 |
| 03:04.46 | laptop | and it does not work with nvidia drivers propietary |
| 03:05.06 | aedinius | uh |
| 03:05.10 | aedinius | which version of nvidia? |
| 03:05.17 | aedinius | oh wrong channel |
| 03:05.35 | aedinius | well, maybe I can. |
| 03:05.44 | aedinius | What version of nvidia? the latest in the repos? |
| 03:05.55 | nanovirus | does nvidia develop driver for linux ? |
| 03:06.32 | aedinius | Yes, for a while now. It's not in-tree though, so kinda wonky. |
| 03:07.15 | aedinius | oh, also what version of debian? |
| 03:07.28 | Hooloovoo | yeah, nvidia does produce a driver. unfortunately, they don't allow open-source developers access to any hardware specs or information |
| 03:07.54 | laptop | y propietary legacy driver latest version |
| 03:08.02 | laptop | it works fine with 4.19 |
| 03:08.15 | aedinius | 390.87-8~deb9u1 ? |
| 03:08.20 | Hooloovoo | so unless they bless your kernel, or your kernel is close to one they bless or you use nouveau, you won't get it working |
| 03:08.30 | laptop | ever |
| 03:08.41 | nanovirus | hmm i see |
| 03:08.49 | laptop | what if i role my own kernel |
| 03:08.51 | laptop | can |
| 03:09.02 | laptop | i put together a kernel 5 myself and add nvidia |
| 03:09.14 | aedinius | My only nvidia is for a different distro, it's nvidia390 and kernel 5.0... something |
| 03:09.25 | laptop | which one |
| 03:09.26 | Hooloovoo | maybe? |
| 03:09.34 | aedinius | laptop: that system is Void |
| 03:09.52 | aedinius | But assuming debian stable, nvidia390 should work with kernel 5.x |
| 03:09.54 | aedinius | 5.0.x |
| 03:10.21 | aedinius | laptop: stable, testing, sid? what version of debian are you on? |
| 03:10.48 | laptop | stable |
| 03:10.56 | aedinius | okay. is that on 5.x? |
| 03:11.08 | aedinius | 5.x seems new for stable |
| 03:11.15 | laptop | yes |
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| 03:14.11 | donst | hello big channel, do you think sheepshaver could run debian? |
| 03:14.48 | donst | the thing is sheepshaver is available for ios and I wonder who's faster |
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| 03:15.02 | donst | powerpc sheepshaver emulation vs bochs x86 |
| 03:15.54 | aedinius | laptop: how'd you get 5.0? |
| 03:16.08 | laptop | i downloaded it |
| 03:16.13 | laptop | using antix |
| 03:16.59 | jmcnaught | !antix |
| 03:16.59 | dpkg | antiX is a fast, lightweight and easy to install systemd-free linux live CD distribution based on Debian Stable for Intel-AMD x86 compatible systems ( https://antixlinux.com/ ). It is related to MX Linux ( https://mxlinux.org/ ) which have support only in the form of forums https://www.antixforum.com/ and https://forum.mxlinux.org/ if you want IRC support, use a better supported distro like Debian. antiX and MX are NOT supported here. |
| 03:17.24 | aedinius | jmcnaught and the bot got to it before me |
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| 03:18.22 | jmcnaught | laptop: my advice would be to stick with the kernel that works if there's nothing wrong with it, linux 5 isn't anything special it's just an arbitrary version number |
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| 03:19.08 | aedinius | Either pick a stable distro and stick with it (debian, fedora, etc) or choose something cutting edge and deal with that (arch, void, etc) |
| 03:19.25 | aedinius | Don't try to mix and stuff. |
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| 03:19.49 | aedinius | And ask for support in the channel or wherever most supported for support for that. |
| 03:20.19 | laptop | ok thanks |
| 03:20.34 | laptop | i thought linux 5 had the new google encryption for slow computeres |
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| 03:21.20 | jmcnaught | maybe it does, but will you notice the difference? |
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| 03:26.28 | laptop | i have amd athlon x2 1.7 ghz 2 gb ram and nvidia 7150/630n card |
| 03:26.52 | laptop | xfce is too slow for this thing |
| 03:26.59 | laptop | it is lxde or iceweasel |
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| 03:27.07 | laptop | or trinity for me |
| 03:27.40 | aedinius | So you'd really only notice it if things were using it, and I doubt things will use it |
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| 03:28.18 | laptop | okay so luks would be good enough |
| 03:28.28 | laptop | compared wtih adantium |
| 03:28.33 | aedinius | Which encryption were you referring to? I remember in 4.17 there was the NSA sponsored encryption, but it was dropped in 4.20 |
| 03:28.42 | laptop | google adamantium |
| 03:28.58 | laptop | google adiantum |
| 03:29.10 | laptop | https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/11/18220019/google-adiantum-storage-encryption-android-low-power-cheap-cost |
| 03:30.10 | aedinius | lscpu | grep --color=always aes |
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| 03:30.42 | aedinius | you might have hardware aes accel |
| 03:32.36 | laptop | dont think so I checked |
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| 03:42.08 | Tom-_ | copying and pasting with gpm stopped working in vim jessie -> stretch |
| 03:42.31 | Tom-_ | can someone please tell me how to get it working again |
| 03:43.26 | Tom-_ | okay i searched and found https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/318824/vim-cutpaste-not-working-in-stretch-debian-9 |
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| 04:06.03 | rant | I fell asleep just thinking about learning to do something in blender |
| 04:06.46 | rant | looks around like the koolaid man who just crashed through the wrong wall |
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| 06:35.16 | OnceMe | I have an issue with crontabs, I'm getting Path '/tmp/crontab.BMjmuL' is not accessible (in nano editor) and when I exit it, I get no crontab for onceme - using an empty one Temporary crontab no longer owned by you.Error while editing crontab. What do you I do? |
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| 07:40.06 | bopappy | y0, the modern debian installer sucks. Trying to open a terminal with alt+fx , getting terminal only to find busybox not able to install wifi firmware by cli. back in the 90s I mounted a vfat partition and installed the entire debian distro from that. Today, on one hand there is slackware and openbsd then there is fedora/opensuse |
| 07:40.37 | bopappy | debian sits in between the only thing it does right is try to fill your hard disk with random data before encrypting it |
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| 07:54.27 | rant | dpkg, firmware images |
| 07:54.27 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>. |
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| 08:29.27 | krion | hey ! |
| 08:29.47 | krion | it's me again with my damn boring pinning/repository stuff related problem... |
| 08:30.01 | krion | jelly: how you doing with this sunny friday !? |
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| 08:31.30 | Fox | might not be sunny everywhere in the world :) |
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| 09:19.48 | paidjemz | hello |
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| 09:20.08 | paidjemz | can someone reply? |
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| 09:20.32 | humpled | it's best to just go ahead and ask your question paidjemz |
| 09:21.17 | humpled | assuming you've already framed it succintly |
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| 09:21.37 | krion | paidjemz: hello |
| 09:21.41 | krion | !ask |
| 09:21.42 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 09:22.58 | __m4ch1n3__ | is there a way to make history command not enumerate lines? |
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| 09:26.36 | colo-work | __m4ch1n3__, while read -r _ line; do printf '%s\n' "$line"; done < <(history) |
| 09:26.50 | colo-work | (this might break with multi-line history entries, if they exist?) |
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| 09:29.30 | __m4ch1n3__ | ahhh just relized i could simply "cat $HOME/.bash_history" :D |
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| 09:31.10 | colo-work | that's not necessarily the same state as what `history` yields though |
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| 09:33.41 | EdePopede | and even less with alternative history (pst, $HISTFILE) |
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| 09:34.39 | __m4ch1n3__ | aoh yes |
| 09:34.43 | __m4ch1n3__ | *ah |
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| 09:48.24 | FriedEggBanjo | clear |
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| 09:50.00 | hizb | hi |
| 09:50.12 | hizb | ÙÙا |
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| 09:52.02 | hizb | اØد Ùرد |
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| 09:57.04 | AnononA | for sid upgrade whats best option netinstaller or sourcelist safe upgrade |
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| 10:05.33 | __m4ch1n3__ | there is an sid install media? |
| 10:05.59 | __m4ch1n3__ | thought sid upgrades are always through apt |
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| 10:14.32 | rant | yes sid upgrades via apt |
| 10:14.45 | rant | directly from an official mirror |
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| 10:17.02 | AnononA | if i just wanted to upgrade the nvidia driver from sid repo would that work |
| 10:17.11 | AnononA | my graphics card is supported for all drivers |
| 10:18.09 | rant | AnononA: sid is not supported here, but generally speaking upgrade of a single package can be done just by apt install package |
| 10:18.44 | AnononA | yes but latest driver isnt within stretch |
| 10:18.50 | AnononA | repos |
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| 10:18.58 | rant | the install directive first looks to see if something is installed, if so, checks to see if an update is available and if so updates it, and if not, it checks to see if its auto installed and sets it to manual if it is |
| 10:19.07 | rant | ,v nvidia-driver |
| 10:19.08 | judd | Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 390.87-8~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.116-1; buster/non-free: 410.104-3; sid/non-free: 418.56-2 |
| 10:19.30 | rant | AnononA: do you actually have an issue that requires the newer driver? |
| 10:20.03 | AnononA | couple of games arent at there best and give waring saying game may not work properly |
| 10:20.14 | AnononA | plus later version have better performance fixes |
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| 10:21.12 | rant | AnononA: if you are going to want to stay on the bleeding edge, while this is typically not advisable here, you may just be better off maintaining the driver upgrades yourself directly from nvidia |
| 10:21.43 | rant | because in reality thats likely to cause less problems than trying to use a sid non-free dkms driver in stable |
| 10:22.22 | rant | graphics drivers are more troublesome in this regard because they have many components they are not only kernel modules |
| 10:23.05 | rant | and in debian they are not a single package, but several packages.. all which have potential to cause breakage or result in frankendebian |
| 10:23.34 | rant | either way if you can't use the stable driver, you are putting yourself in an unsupportable state |
| 10:23.47 | AnononA | ok so get the .run from nvidia then |
| 10:24.33 | AnononA | i had that installed eirlier this week then couldnt get steam to work but now steam is installed if i purge the nvidia drivers then start with latest from nvidia will be easier to maintain |
| 10:24.41 | rant | AnononA: are you of the necessary skill to fix graphics issues on your own? |
| 10:24.48 | AnononA | is that what your saying |
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| 10:25.18 | AnononA | some yes but on this level i would need resaerch and maybe bit of help |
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| 10:25.31 | rant | AnononA: if you are aware of the risks, "void of warranty" kinda stuff, and really want to stay on the bleeding edge with this driver, then yes, I believe directly from nvidia is the safest option |
| 10:25.38 | AnononA | im getting alot more envolved with debian these days |
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| 10:26.03 | rant | you will need to download and install the updates yourself regularly, you will need to be able to fix your system if it breaks.. cause we can't support it..etc |
| 10:26.34 | AnononA | i understand and thanks for advice i really appreciate it |
| 10:26.46 | rant | AnononA: other options would be either running sid, which also would require more advanced knowledge.. |
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| 10:27.45 | AnononA | worse comes to worse id do a format if everything went really bad. back to stable but i want to get the most out of my card with debian |
| 10:28.03 | AnononA | more i go through the more i learn |
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| 10:28.34 | AnononA | if i run into problems i cant solve myself would you care if i dropped back in and shot you couple of questions |
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| 10:28.48 | rant | AnononA: you could also try a dual boot with sid and stable so you could have a fallback |
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| 10:29.11 | AnononA | im dual boot now windows 10 debian 9.8 stretch |
| 10:29.17 | AnononA | so triboot |
| 10:29.21 | AnononA | hmmm |
| 10:29.40 | AnononA | is purge the best option to remove drivers |
| 10:29.46 | rant | yes well you could probably create two / and one /home and use same /home on both |
| 10:29.49 | AnononA | coz when i did the drivers i had to have the correct headers |
| 10:29.59 | AnononA | never thought of that |
| 10:30.07 | __m4ch1n3__ | what are you talking about? drivers are part of kernel |
| 10:30.12 | rant | apt --purge remove *nvidia* |
| 10:30.14 | __m4ch1n3__ | except nvida |
| 10:30.19 | AnononA | kernal headers |
| 10:30.38 | rant | graphics drivers are kernel, xorg, dri/drm/glx etc they have many parts |
| 10:30.46 | rant | sometimes even firmware too |
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| 10:32.04 | __m4ch1n3__ | purge just removes config files additionally |
| 10:32.06 | rant | __m4ch1n3__: its also not really safe in any regard to jump to that conclusion cause there are things like fuse and such |
| 10:32.18 | AnononA | what i followed with success was this https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#stretch |
| 10:32.45 | rant | __m4ch1n3__: which you want to do in this case, cause nvidia components will sometimes have such things like x configs and such |
| 10:32.46 | AnononA | has diffrent headerss per version |
| 10:33.52 | AnononA | wont they get generated with the run file anyway |
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| 10:33.59 | AnononA | xconfig |
| 10:34.04 | __m4ch1n3__ | I dont want that, use own custom xorg.conf :3 |
| 10:34.26 | AnononA | whats wrong with default |
| 10:34.27 | AnononA | ? |
| 10:34.36 | __m4ch1n3__ | doesnt work with PRIME synchronization |
| 10:34.42 | rant | yes, there is nvidia-xconfig or such iirc.. but w/e the problem with this stuff is that the upstream and debian stuff work differently |
| 10:35.04 | rant | by default debian doesn't configure X, it lets it auto-detect |
| 10:35.17 | rant | we haven't used an x config in a long time |
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| 10:35.48 | AnononA | .run method isnt compatible with debian packages |
| 10:35.53 | AnononA | is that what you mean |
| 10:36.08 | rant | its a black box for the most part |
| 10:36.38 | AnononA | ok what drivers do you run |
| 10:36.43 | AnononA | are you nvidia |
| 10:36.54 | rant | no, I have a 4th gen Core i5 |
| 10:37.02 | AnononA | ahh ok |
| 10:37.07 | rant | all my drivers are built i |
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| 10:37.32 | AnononA | is there packages from nvidia driver package that steam needs |
| 10:37.37 | rant | even with the upstream .run you still are required to keep the appropriate kernel-headers package for your kernel installed as well as build-essential |
| 10:37.50 | rant | because the upstream driver will need to build kernel modules |
| 10:37.52 | __m4ch1n3__ | yes, thats another reson, my xorg.conf is minimal required config for prime synchronization i brutforced |
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| 10:38.31 | AnononA | could you simplify that last bit for me |
| 10:38.36 | __m4ch1n3__ | tried to let Xorg autoconfig as much as possible |
| 10:38.51 | AnononA | gotcha |
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| 10:39.05 | rant | AnononA: apt install build-essential kernel-headers-amd64 |
| 10:39.09 | __m4ch1n3__ | and have only the minimal settings that a recommented by PRIME synchronization |
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| 10:40.19 | __m4ch1n3__ | https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/957814/linux/prime-and-prime-synchronization/post/4964506/#4964506 |
| 10:40.41 | rant | I wouldnt touch that optimus shit |
| 10:40.50 | __m4ch1n3__ | mine is way shorter then that |
| 10:40.59 | rant | idk why you're even bringing it up.. there was no mention of that I saw |
| 10:41.20 | rant | vast majority of people with nvidia don't have optimus |
| 10:42.16 | __m4ch1n3__ | yeah PRIME synchronization is turning intel gpu off without screentearing, its actually about turning optimus device into a nvidia only |
| 10:42.23 | AnononA | i have not got optimus anyway |
| 10:42.58 | __m4ch1n3__ | and it took 8 years from optimus devices to xserver that can revert that shit |
| 10:43.12 | __m4ch1n3__ | *reverse |
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| 10:43.40 | qqz | I have an EEE PC with 4GB flash hard disk |
| 10:43.51 | AnononA | so when editing nvidia x server setting gui options is that all editing xorg |
| 10:44.02 | qqz | after installing the base system and LXDE I have 99% of my hard disk used |
| 10:44.08 | qqz | what can I do? |
| 10:44.09 | rant | lenovo had made a laptop with dual cpus.. x86 and arm for similar purposes of saving power on basic computing |
| 10:44.24 | rant | qqz: get a bigger disk, install less stuff |
| 10:44.37 | rant | !de usage |
| 10:44.37 | dpkg | i guess de usage is The HDD/RAM usages of the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M |
| 10:44.53 | qqz | rant: no that is impossible |
| 10:45.03 | qqz | with Xandros there was plenty of space left |
| 10:45.07 | rant | qqz: you seriously underestimate possibilities |
| 10:45.14 | __m4ch1n3__ | https://termbin.com/vmcf |
| 10:45.24 | AnononA | thanks for help guys ill do abit more reading ive noted some of the convo for resource |
| 10:45.24 | qqz | isn´t there some software that I can uninstall |
| 10:45.35 | qqz | or would you recommend me another distribution? |
| 10:45.37 | __m4ch1n3__ | thats the most minimal config i could figure out to make PRIME synchronization work |
| 10:45.55 | rant | qqz: as you can see from that factoid I made above, LXDE is 3.0GB when installed from the installer. You prob also have swap or such |
| 10:46.23 | qqz | no I have no swap |
| 10:46.26 | rant | __m4ch1n3__: are you high? |
| 10:46.29 | qqz | so uninstall LXDE then |
| 10:46.34 | qqz | is XFCE smaller? |
| 10:46.35 | __m4ch1n3__ | lol why? |
| 10:46.40 | qqz | or is there an alternative? |
| 10:46.41 | rant | qqz: marginally.. |
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| 10:46.53 | rant | qqz: you can piece together your own system with what you feel you need |
| 10:47.13 | rant | __m4ch1n3__: cause you're the ONLY one talking about optimus/prime.. nobody else mentioned it :P |
| 10:47.21 | qqz | rant: how to do that? |
| 10:47.37 | rant | qqz: I take it you're not very experienced with linux? |
| 10:47.53 | qqz | what software is not absolutely necessary to boot the X-Server and show a menu |
| 10:48.00 | qqz | and a console |
| 10:48.03 | qqz | I do not need more |
| 10:48.09 | qqz | perhaps use twm or so? |
| 10:48.35 | rant | qqz: I recommend you install again with desktop system unselected.. in fact don't install anything from the tasksel but "standard system utilities" |
| 10:48.49 | rant | qqz: then login on the console and issue an apt install command for what you want |
| 10:48.50 | qqz | ok good; that I can do |
| 10:49.04 | qqz | what would be a tiny shell with menu? |
| 10:49.12 | qqz | or a good window manager? |
| 10:49.18 | rant | qqz: something like apt install lightdm xorg-core tint2 openbox |
| 10:49.30 | rant | idk really.. what your preference would be |
| 10:49.54 | rant | tint2 is a really lightweight panel, iirc it doesnt have a menu but the wm will likely have one depending on which one you choose |
| 10:50.15 | rant | I dont recall of the *box which is smallest fluxbox, openbox,blackbox |
| 10:50.32 | rant | there is also that matchbox or w/e |
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| 10:50.39 | rant | ,i matchbox |
| 10:50.41 | judd | Package matchbox (embedded, optional) in stretch/amd64: base X environment for resource-limited systems. Version: 1:5; Size: 2.9k; Installed: 27k |
| 10:51.18 | humpled | if you've just installed and upgraded, i think there might be a lot of archived packages which you could throw out |
| 10:51.49 | rant | qqz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matchbox_(window_manager) |
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| 10:52.28 | rant | qqz: yes you could also see if "apt clean" frees up any space |
| 10:52.44 | rant | but for the most part you need a smaller system than what you got for 4gb total disk space |
| 10:53.09 | humpled | after a few years of use my root partition with xfce is 5.7G |
| 10:53.55 | rant | qqz: for a fairly complete desktop-environment feel you probably wont find anything smaller than matchbox |
| 10:54.03 | rant | but that may be a tad overkill |
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| 10:54.34 | qqz | matchbox is larger and more feature rich than openbox? |
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| 10:55.11 | rant | well matchbox tries to be more like a full de, where openbox is just a wm |
| 10:56.24 | rant | qqz: I'm installing with matchbox into a vm with 4gb disk right now to see |
| 10:56.24 | qqz | how to run apt-clean? |
| 10:56.33 | rant | qqz: just type apt clean as root |
| 10:56.42 | rant | it removes any downloaded/cached packages |
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| 10:58.35 | qqz | does perhaps the package cache pollute the disk space? |
| 10:59.27 | qqz | what about /var/cache/apt? |
| 10:59.55 | buttros_ | Hello everyone! Does this channel provide support for Kali Linux? |
| 11:00.04 | rant | qqz: thats what it cleans |
| 11:00.13 | rant | buttros_: no it provides support for debian stable |
| 11:00.16 | rant | !kali |
| 11:00.17 | dpkg | Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html |
| 11:00.42 | buttros_ | OK Thanks! |
| 11:00.50 | rant | I hit a snag on setting up the VM, for some reason my virtualbox is only showing 32bit right now.. ugh.. |
| 11:01.49 | rant | uses the 32bit installer for now |
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| 11:02.17 | rant | I never seen it do that before.. it is only emulating 32bit for some odd reason |
| 11:02.28 | rant | doesnt even show any 64bit OS as options |
| 11:03.03 | rant | reboots to check bios for virt options turned off :P |
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| 11:04.43 | ov3rmind | hello great guys, thanks a lot for ever help me |
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| 11:05.48 | ov3rmind | it's a nice day, a good time here to say good morning! |
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| 11:06.00 | rant | yep, virt was disabled.. I switched from an x240 to a t440 not long ago and they look so similiar and I took the ssd from there so I think I'm on same machine.. heh.. guess I never enabled virt on this machine |
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| 11:06.36 | linuxson | hey guys, need some help detecting and setting up the wifi adapter on my Mecer MyLife Z140C+ laptop. Installation is not detecting the hardware, and I cant find any references online to what chipset it is |
| 11:07.15 | rant | linuxson: if you are trying to install debian over wifi you should be using the special firmware installer image |
| 11:07.22 | rant | !firmware installer |
| 11:07.22 | dpkg | Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See http://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>. |
| 11:07.28 | rant | !firmware images |
| 11:07.28 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>. |
| 11:08.04 | Guest6026 | hello |
| 11:08.09 | linuxson | Nope, debian is already installed, just trying to get my wifi working. Currently using a USB RJ45 adapter |
| 11:08.09 | Guest6026 | hello |
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| 11:08.49 | rant | linuxson: then enable non-free repos and install firmware-linux-nonfree or check lspci -nn and tell us which wifi adapter it is |
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| 11:10.15 | linuxson | rant, cool, will tryyour first suggestion first, cause lspci is not picking it up either |
| 11:10.33 | linuxson | rant, used the netinstall media as it was a smaller download at first |
| 11:10.37 | rant | qqz: defaults are also a 5% reserve for filesystem, this can be set in partitioner during install or later with tune2fs |
| 11:10.46 | rant | linuxson: check lsusb too |
| 11:10.59 | rant | linuxson: if one of these dont see it, firmware wont help |
| 11:11.15 | rant | linuxson: paste output of lspci -nn; lsusb on paste.debian.net |
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| 11:12.14 | rant | qqz: 5% of 4gb is only like 200MB though you'd have unavailable |
| 11:12.47 | rant | and really with that little disk space you probably would be better off keeping a reserve |
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| 11:15.02 | qqz | ok; good then, will reinstall in the afternoon |
| 11:15.35 | rant | qqz: I'm setting up some vm to play around and see what works |
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| 11:16.27 | qqz | rant: thanks a lot; I will come online again then |
| 11:16.30 | rant | qqz: gonna clone this base install I just did and see what file size is like with and without the "standard system utilities" |
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| 11:17.17 | AnononA | Hey guys so i uninstalled nvidia-driver evan purged and when ever i restart driver is still there and cant use .run |
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| 11:17.27 | linuxson | rant, http://paste.debian.net/1079921/ |
| 11:17.42 | qqz | could I install without standard system utilities as well? |
| 11:17.59 | rant | qqz: with just the standard system utilities the install is only 864M for amd64 |
| 11:17.59 | AnononA | says nvidia driver still there now when i go to try uninstall again it says its already been removed |
| 11:18.07 | rant | qqz: standard system utils are things like less and such.. |
| 11:18.20 | rant | qqz: I can get you a list and size difference.. just need a few moments |
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| 11:19.41 | rant | qqz: after removing the "laptop" task and doing apt clean I'm down to 836M |
| 11:19.59 | qqz | how to remove the laptop task? |
| 11:20.11 | rant | I just ran tasksel from the terminal after install |
| 11:20.14 | qqz | I wanna have upower and power and battery management though? |
| 11:20.17 | rant | removes stuff like bluetooth packages and such |
| 11:20.30 | rant | yeah and probably that too.. |
| 11:20.39 | rant | lemme get into the apt logs here.. |
| 11:21.08 | qqz | ahh it is displayed by tasksel |
| 11:21.20 | rant | LtL: you're missing the lsusb output |
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| 11:21.35 | rant | linuxson: ^ |
| 11:21.42 | linuxson | rant, http://paste.debian.net/1079922/ |
| 11:21.53 | linuxson | Sorry, got disconnected there for a second |
| 11:22.23 | linuxson | rant, I missed what you are refering to, could you please type again? |
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| 11:22.38 | rant | linuxson: that was it.. what you just pasted |
| 11:22.53 | rant | linuxson: see on this machine even your ethernet is on USB not PCI |
| 11:23.15 | humpled | another option for low disk space could be a live distro with syslinux and persistence |
| 11:23.17 | linuxson | rant, like I said,its a USB network adaptor |
| 11:23.44 | linuxson | rant, had to switch to a wired connection because my wireless doesnt work |
| 11:23.48 | humpled | i had one with openbox for quite a while on a laptop with no hard drive, it's surprisingly stable, |
| 11:24.29 | qqz | rant: thanks for the additional hints; I will shut down in a minute except if you have yet untold suggestions |
| 11:24.33 | linuxson | rant, Ive already set management to true in my conf file, and restarted the network manager, still no luck |
| 11:24.35 | rant | linuxson: yeah the kernel isnt seeing any wifi, if its built in it could be disabled by the bios |
| 11:24.55 | rant | linuxson: I'd check bios and full output of journalctl or dmesg |
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| 11:25.17 | linuxson | rant, Not so sure if its disabled in bios, because it was working just fine before I flashed Debian (coming from Manjaro) |
| 11:26.25 | rant | qqz: matchbox says its only gonna be 84M of additional space |
| 11:26.45 | rant | qqz: might also want something like lightdm for graphical login idk if matchbox supplies a DM |
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| 11:27.34 | ceptor | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:27.43 | linuxson | rant, http://paste.debian.net/1079923/ |
| 11:27.53 | linuxson | rant, Output from journalctl |
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| 11:29.14 | linuxson | rant, http://paste.debian.net/1079924/ |
| 11:29.22 | linuxson | rant, Output from dmesg |
| 11:29.59 | rant | linuxson: journalctl includes the kernel buffer it was more an either/or thing.. heh.. journalctl is more info |
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| 11:30.40 | linuxson | rant, hehe....sorry, bit of a perfectionist |
| 11:30.58 | rant | I personally prefer dmesg its cleaner.. journalctl output is everything mashed together without further options |
| 11:31.45 | linuxson | rant, yeah...dmesg is MUCH cleaner |
| 11:32.30 | rant | qqz: having removed task laptop, with "standard system utilties" only selected during install and nothing else, then installing apt install matchbox lightdm I have a system weighing in at 1.2G on amd64 |
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| 11:33.18 | rant | qqz: that alone could be slimmed a bit as the lightdm pulls in the entire xorg, all video drivers, etc.. |
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| 11:33.32 | qqz | yes; that will be good since I plan to install some freedict dictionaries |
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| 11:34.03 | rant | starts lightdm to get a look at matchbox |
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| 11:35.47 | rant | qqz: yeah this is WAY basic :P |
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| 11:38.32 | rant | qqz: https://i.imgur.com/ud9zRVT.png thats all there is.. heh |
| 11:39.09 | humpled | who needs a login manager |
| 11:39.19 | rant | qqz: what you see there was only 84MB though, the bulk of the usage came from xorg/lightdm install.. mostly xorg.. |
| 11:40.58 | qqz | looks good |
| 11:41.56 | rant | qqz: yeah I am not sure this is what you want though.. I think its more meant for embedded kiosk style use.. I think I can get somethig comparable in size with better functionality |
| 11:42.04 | rant | possibly even less in size |
| 11:42.47 | qqz | ok; good; shall I come online later on, shall I leave konversation open |
| 11:42.50 | rant | gonna try this next vm without the standard system utils and installing only the bare minimum xorg packages required and see what the smallest is I can get just x, then clone and go from there |
| 11:43.08 | qqz | rant: .. or would you even send me via email to estellnb@elstel.org? |
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| 11:43.15 | rant | qqz: if you close your client I can put you on notify and know when you rejoin, otheriws you can ping me |
| 11:43.40 | rant | qqz: possibly.. you shouldnt post emails anywhere.. things get spammy :P |
| 11:44.06 | qqz | ok; good let us meet on irc (if not on email before) |
| 11:44.29 | qqz | the email is world readable at www.elstel.org but I had little problems with spam yet |
| 11:44.43 | rant | ah.. its a mailbin? |
| 11:45.16 | rant | guess you didnt need to be worried then :P |
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| 11:46.23 | rant | makes a smallest base+x and clones to try mix/match stuff from there |
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| 11:49.29 | rant | linuxson: yeah the kernel doesnt seem to see any other network device other than the usb ethernet |
| 11:50.03 | qqz | no there is no AI to presort the emails like for mailbin |
| 11:50.20 | qqz | just the spam filter of my provider dotplex.de (which also offers DANE) |
| 11:50.36 | qqz | or what do you mean by mailbin? |
| 11:51.39 | rant | qqz: like mailinator.com where you can makeup and ol address and as soon as mail comes in to that adress it creates the mailbox on the fly and all you need to know to check the malbox is the email, there is no password or login |
| 11:52.55 | qqz | ahh something like temporary disposable emails |
| 11:53.14 | qqz | no elstel.org is my webpage, it has been the same for years |
| 11:53.37 | rant | linuxson: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/braswell/atom-x5-processor-z8350-product-brief.html is showing wifi/buetooth on SDIO/UART/I2S as an option |
| 11:53.49 | rant | linuxson: its not standard pci or usb I guess |
| 11:54.05 | rant | linuxson: its more embedded on an SoC with the CPU |
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| 11:56.12 | linuxson | rant, hmmmm....so what are my options? |
| 11:57.06 | rant | linuxson: idk yet so far I see no i2s or uart in your dmesg, and only sdio is a memory card reader.. so again, kernel isnt seeing it |
| 11:57.14 | rant | linuxson: are you sure its not disabled in the bios? |
| 11:57.35 | linuxson | rant, I could check, but didnt notice an option for wifi in there |
| 11:58.09 | rant | linuxson: look at everything and make sure.. I'll keep digging see if I can find any mention of cherry trail embedded wifi working on any linux |
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| 12:27.54 | anonyan | hello. can i use openrc insteal of systemd? |
| 12:28.33 | anonyan | as i understand than there is no official support? nut there are all almost necessary packages in official repo |
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| 12:31.39 | PaulePanter | Hi. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/shadow has the wrong VCS URLs. |
| 12:31.47 | PaulePanter | Itâs now at https://salsa.debian.org/debian/shadow/ |
| 12:31.56 | PaulePanter | How can this be updated. |
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| 12:32.35 | Ticho_ | is anyone here experienced with chrony the timekeeping daemon? I'd like to know if I can control after how long period of a server time source being unreachable will the daemon mark it as such |
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| 12:33.34 | EdePopede | PaulePanter: the VCS link to the Git? there's plenty of them, should be done by some script on the server |
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| 12:49.04 | PaulePanter | EdePopede: Understood. |
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| 13:16.03 | dob1 | hi, I am stuck at the installer on creation the partions. It complains about the uefi partition but I don't understand how to create it |
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| 13:16.45 | rant | that linuxson never came back.. but I suspect after researching that the Cherry Trail is supported in 4.11 or better.. the 4.9 kernel is just too old as the SoC came out in Aug 2016 |
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| 13:17.35 | rant | dob1: are you dual-booting? |
| 13:17.43 | dob1 | rant, no, it's a new hdd |
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| 13:18.18 | rant | dob1: then unless the system can't do it, disable UEFI, its microsoft crap and just a headache with no benefit |
| 13:18.29 | dob1 | rant, and how can I do this? |
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| 13:18.37 | rant | like WGA its just another way to keep you out of your computer |
| 13:18.48 | rant | dob1: most systems can disable it in the bios |
| 13:19.07 | rant | I have it turned off in this Thinkpad T440 |
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| 13:20.11 | dob1 | rant, there was a point where debian installer asked about (I don't remember it all) : do you want to use uefi or keep bios compatibility? I answered UEFI. But now even going back on the installer I am not able to return to this question |
| 13:20.55 | rant | dob1: reboot your system, enter the bios setup, look for and disable any UEFI stuff, set it to legacy, then just use normal bios compat |
| 13:21.10 | rant | if you're only at partitioning, you havent made any significant progress yet |
| 13:21.13 | dob1 | rant, I can't. I am installing via ssh |
| 13:21.39 | rant | ah.. well there it is :P |
| 13:21.41 | dob1 | and there is nobody there |
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| 13:22.03 | dob1 | rant, can you explain me why I can't proceed? just to understand |
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| 13:22.30 | dob1 | and why debian can't create a uefi partition? is something proprietary? |
| 13:22.39 | rant | dob1: you probably can, if you go read up on the wiki about uefi.. but I would just stop and wait till I could disable uefi |
| 13:22.47 | rant | dob1: yes, its entirely proprietary |
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| 13:23.12 | rant | it was made for and by microsoft and only keys that work for it afaik are microsoft keys |
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| 13:23.20 | rant | !uefi |
| 13:23.21 | dpkg | Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) is a firmware interface specification, intended to replace the <BIOS> firmware interface. Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later releases support installation in (U)EFI mode on 64-bit PC systems (amd64), <secure boot> is currently not supported. https://wiki.debian.org/UEFI |
| 13:23.41 | dob1 | rant, just to understand. uefi is the new "bios" interface? |
| 13:23.50 | dob1 | let's call it the "fancy" one ? |
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| 13:24.30 | rant | dob1: no, its more like Windows Genuine Advantage, its designed to keep you out of your computer.. its mostly just to insure you're running only the software that came with the machine |
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| 13:25.04 | rant | it checks the uefi parition on the drive and looks for a key that is authorized to boot on the machine |
| 13:25.12 | rant | its like copy protection on media |
| 13:25.19 | rant | DRM for boot disks |
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| 13:25.48 | rant | its not a bad idea in and of itself.. its just who comissioned intel to do it.. |
| 13:25.53 | rant | and how they did it |
| 13:25.54 | dob1 | but on wikipedia it says "it replaced BIOS" |
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| 13:26.53 | rant | yeah well thats not entirely accurate.. nor is the name UEFI |
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| 13:28.22 | dob1 | rant, not do doubt your help, but I am a bit confused from what I am reading |
| 13:29.14 | LtL | dob1: don't trust everything you read on wikipedia |
| 13:29.34 | dob1 | I am reading various sites |
| 13:29.53 | rant | dob1: the installer should be able to setup the ESP partition but basically what it comes down to is UEFI is annoying and not required in most all cases, and should be disabled if not running windows |
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| 13:30.46 | dob1 | The motherboard manufacturer will have implemented either BIOS or UEFI, it is stored in a ROM chip on the motherboard and not tied to the chipset or CPU. |
| 13:30.49 | dob1 | I read this |
| 13:31.16 | dob1 | and on other some articles I read that you need windows to disable UEFI |
| 13:31.54 | LtL | dob1: that's just wrong |
| 13:32.40 | dob1 | rant, where it creates this partition? for example I have to leave free space? |
| 13:33.13 | rant | dob1: it should load the module partman-efi and do it in the partitioning |
| 13:33.38 | dob1 | rant, when? |
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| 13:34.08 | rant | dob1: no clue.. I wouldnt use it.. and I can't simulate it with my VM so.. |
| 13:34.25 | dob1 | can I make some "damage" if i try ? |
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| 13:36.48 | rant | what I do know is.. the installer supports it, and has always been WIDHE compliant.. so if you had just When In Doubt Hit Enter it should've done it |
| 13:37.06 | rant | you probably stopped it by pressing something other than enter and went into manual partitioning |
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| 13:38.32 | dob1 | rant, I found this https://linux-tips.com/t/how-to-solve-no-efi-partition-was-found-error/354 so I have to create a fat partition |
| 13:38.39 | rant | so there should probably be some setting in there for setting up that ESP but I dont readily know.. cause I never used it.. UEFI to me is just going back to ancient legacy practices of needing a bootable flag on a partition of a certain size and blah blah blah.. |
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| 13:39.06 | dob1 | no wait, there is EFI System partition as filesystem |
| 13:39.10 | dob1 | it's this? |
| 13:39.17 | rant | yes |
| 13:39.30 | rant | ESP stands for EFI System Partition |
| 13:39.45 | rant | its a partition that contains the EFI bootloader and kernels and such |
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| 13:40.19 | dob1 | "Now you will see ESP flags on the partition list. There is one more steps: you have to toggle bootable option on this newly created ESP partition." why? |
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| 13:40.54 | rant | because, as I was just saying "legacy" is more new-aged than this so-called new qand improved UEFI :P |
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| 13:41.42 | dob1 | rant, sorry I am lost :) |
| 13:41.42 | rant | "legacy" bios hasnt required flags, fat partitions, partitions of a certain location or size, etc, ever since a GNU created a real bootloader |
| 13:42.04 | dob1 | this uefi partition is where it will be put grub ? |
| 13:42.13 | rant | you just slapped a decent bootloadre like grub on the MBR of the disk and used whatever you wanted |
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| 13:42.31 | rant | dob1: grub-efi, sure |
| 13:42.44 | dob1 | so it needs to be bootable |
| 13:42.59 | rant | again, I have no idea.. but probably, yes |
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| 13:43.25 | rant | like a lot of recent developments in computing, this was a step forward and two steps back |
| 13:43.54 | rant | because it was a collaboration with morons with other agendas.. i.e. microsoft and intel |
| 13:44.33 | dob1 | ok but unfortunately a lot of times you can't decide with what you have to work |
| 13:44.33 | rant | the legit purpose was to create a more extendable firmware system to support newer hardware going forward |
| 13:44.47 | dob1 | so better try to learn them, imho |
| 13:45.05 | rant | you can if you dont meet any necessary criteria for using such crap, just set it to revert to legacy bios |
| 13:45.43 | rant | as long as the disk is detected, and wont be running windows 10, there is no real need for having UEFI boot enabled |
| 13:46.11 | rant | I disabled UEFI and about half a dozen backdoors in mine |
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| 13:46.29 | rant | fancy crap had a ton of remote management things running outside the OS |
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| 13:47.15 | dob1 | I have to wait someone will return where te pc is :) |
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| 13:48.34 | dob1 | rant, ok but you made an assumption: in every motherboard you can disalbe uefi, is this always true? |
| 13:49.07 | rant | dob1: for the most part to help your confusion, the main feature I'm talking about is "secure boot" and for the most part what you say about UEFI being a BIOS replacement is true |
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| 13:50.20 | rant | dob1: however even back when we called it BIOS that was only the software.. and it was used interchangably to mean CMOS or other things.. and in the same way BIOS will continue to be used in much literature and in the kernel as a way to describe the software that exists on the mobo itself |
| 13:51.08 | rant | dob1: and while many will cite advnatages.. none of these have really been utilized and the only practical differences have been a buncha crap that keeps you out of your computer and lets people in remotely |
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| 13:51.48 | rant | dob1: for the most part, yes, they all still have legacy mode and it doesnt require a microsoft filesystem to function |
| 13:52.26 | dob1 | rant, legacy or deprecated ? |
| 13:52.35 | rant | there should be a UEFI replacing legacy bios.. it just shouldnt be like it is :P |
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| 13:52.52 | rant | and since what it is.. can often be disabled, I say it should be |
| 13:54.41 | rant | mine has UEFI Boot, SecureBoot, Comutrace, TPM, all kinda crap.. its all disabled |
| 13:55.26 | dob1 | rant, I have to tell the person on the pc to search for UEFI boot and disable it? |
| 13:55.35 | dob1 | this is what is called ? |
| 13:55.54 | tachikomas | rant:you should run coreboot / seabios |
| 13:56.25 | rant | could be.. could be called boot mode idk.. no idea what kinda computer we're talking about every BIOS/UEFI is different |
| 13:56.39 | rant | tachikomas: idk that its available for my machine |
| 13:56.46 | LtL | dob1: either disable UEFI or enable legacy BIOS booting and disable secure boot. |
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| 13:57.13 | rant | even the mfgs dont know what to call this crap |
| 13:57.24 | rant | mine calls it a UEFI BIOS |
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| 13:57.38 | tachikomas | rant: what machine do you use ? |
| 13:57.41 | rant | so how can one replace the other if it uses both terms to identify it? :P |
| 13:58.03 | rant | tachikomas: Lenovo Thinkpad T440 currently |
| 13:58.19 | tachikomas | rant: you should definitely find a coreboot version for this one |
| 13:58.27 | rant | tachikomas: i recall reading about it and it didnt seem viable |
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| 13:58.44 | tachikomas | i am using it on my daily driver on my x230 |
| 13:58.53 | rant | it also seemed more complicated than UEFI Boot to set it up :P |
| 13:59.19 | rant | it wasnt like just going to your mfg site and downloading a flash util like the old days |
| 13:59.41 | tachikomas | nah you need to use a raspberry and inject the bios by flashing the chip itself |
| 13:59.42 | rant | sounded like it needed to be maticulously homebrewed and in many cases manually flashed like a jtag or something |
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| 14:00.04 | tachikomas | while not powered :) but thats a fun opensource project |
| 14:00.26 | rant | yeah, when I'm as nutty as RMS I'll get right on that.. |
| 14:00.49 | rant | no wait.. if I was as nutty as RMS I wouldnt have bought this in the first place :P |
| 14:01.08 | Corshine7 | from scale 1-10 how good is ubuntu 19.04? |
| 14:01.28 | rant | though technically I didnt buy it, I traded a buncha old T-series most broken in some way, for it |
| 14:01.32 | dob1 | Corshine7, not a good question here :) |
| 14:01.40 | tachikomas | rant: :D |
| 14:01.48 | Corshine7 | lmao |
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| 14:02.35 | rant | Corshine7: -â |
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| 14:05.48 | rant | Corshine7: Ubuntu is an ancient african word for can't install debian |
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| 14:08.13 | wm4 | is debian unstable in a release feature freeze mode? |
| 14:08.27 | annadane | Corshine7, ##linux |
| 14:08.34 | annadane | or um, #ubuntu |
| 14:08.36 | wm4 | how do I get the newest packages now |
| 14:08.39 | rant | wm4: no thats Debian testing "Buster" |
| 14:09.04 | wm4 | I'm on unstable and lately there have been very little updates |
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| 14:09.29 | rant | wm4: we're in a freeze.. devs are focused on releasing Debian 10 |
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| 14:09.41 | wm4 | well that sucks |
| 14:09.51 | wm4 | I was hoping for the new mesa release, to test something |
| 14:09.58 | JyZyXEL | rocks for the ones waiting on the update :) |
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| 14:11.22 | rant | ,v libgl1-mesa-dri |
| 14:11.23 | judd | Package: libgl1-mesa-dri on amd64 -- jessie: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1; stretch: 13.0.6-1+b2; stretch-backports: 18.2.8-2~bpo9+1; buster: 18.3.4-2; sid: 18.3.6-1; experimental: 19.0.2-1 |
| 14:12.07 | rant | wm4: that version 18.3.6 IS the latest |
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| 14:12.44 | jelly | !slushy |
| 14:12.45 | dpkg | When a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>. |
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| 14:13.15 | wm4 | rant: well Mesa 19 was released a month ago |
| 14:13.23 | wm4 | I'm interested in the freesync stuff |
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| 14:13.38 | rant | wm4: the experimental preview version 19.0.2 is also available |
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| 14:14.23 | dob1 | I disabled secure boot but it's not enough, right? |
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| 14:14.44 | rant | personally when I wanted to test something like a new sdl or mesa for something I compiled it in somewhere like /opt and used LD_PRELOAD or whatever that env var was |
| 14:14.52 | jelly | !experimental |
| 14:14.52 | dpkg | experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian Development. Packages here have been deemed unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does _not_ support experimental. For an actual description, see section 4.6.4.3 of the Developer's Reference. http://packages.debian.org/experimental/ |
| 14:15.26 | jelly | also, if you're on sid, |
| 14:15.27 | rant | wm4: mesa 19 wasnt a stable release, its a dev release |
| 14:15.28 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 14:15.29 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 14:15.54 | annadane | i think mesa 18 is in backports, or something |
| 14:16.12 | annadane | so if you want "a newer mesa" that may be an option but you specifically wated 19 |
| 14:16.15 | annadane | wanted |
| 14:16.19 | jelly | backports mean crap for them if they're on sid |
| 14:16.27 | annadane | oh they're on sid already? ok then |
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| 14:16.54 | jelly | [14:09] <wm4> I'm on unstable and lately there have been very little updates |
| 14:17.18 | rant | yeah I forgot about the slushy thing.. heh.. I just recall its normal for sid to slow a bit |
| 14:17.28 | rant | but there is no actual "freeze" of sid |
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| 14:18.03 | rant | it really would also depend on the packages and maintainer in question |
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| 14:18.10 | wm4 | well I know it from past releases |
| 14:18.28 | wm4 | once the release is done there will be gigabytes of updates suddenly |
| 14:18.39 | wm4 | I think debian should have a rolling release |
| 14:18.40 | rant | mesa is a rather large integral thing.. they're gonna wanna keep that close until release and focus on any RC bugs |
| 14:18.47 | jelly | !nopony wm4 |
| 14:18.47 | dpkg | wm4: http://www.brainfuel.tv/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/nopony.jpg |
| 14:19.00 | rant | wm4: we do, its called ubuntu :P |
| 14:19.21 | wm4 | well there are enough arguments in favor of rolling releases (and ubuntu has its longtime releases, not really rolling) |
| 14:19.36 | jelly | there are certainly attempts like sidux, but they're not Debian |
| 14:20.13 | rant | I came here some 17ish years ago and stayed and use nothing but debian stable because I read their two docs the Social Contract and Why Debian? and I couldn't agree more |
| 14:20.13 | jelly | wm4: arguments are worthless, please provide time or knowhow or money for devs to make it happen |
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| 14:20.38 | jhutchins_wk | wm4: That's not what Debian is about. There are plenty of other distros. |
| 14:20.42 | rant | the day any of that changes, I'll be considering other options |
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| 14:21.21 | wm4 | well don't complain that I'll use unstable as rolling distro |
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| 14:21.45 | annadane | people do use sid as rolling and that's fine but it's not a true rolling distro like other distros focus on |
| 14:22.07 | jelly | jhutchins_wk: well, debian is whatever DDs and DMs pick, there's nothing in DFSG or the social contract that prevents a rolling release to happen |
| 14:22.22 | jelly | it's just a LOT of continuous work |
| 14:22.25 | greycat | it's fine that people use sid as long as they understand that they are volunteering to be alpha-testers |
| 14:22.25 | wm4 | about dev resources, I tink the focus on the stable release is a waste (or rather, there could be a much smaller and in fact more stable server-only stable release) |
| 14:22.57 | jelly | we'll have to disagree on that |
| 14:23.03 | rant | jelly: the part about the priorities is my argument to that.. but it could go both ways |
| 14:23.27 | rant | one could say the part about priorty being our users.. and if thats what the users want.. |
| 14:23.37 | rant | I say the part about stability being a priority |
| 14:25.11 | wm4 | I wouldn't mind stability if I didn't have to do a _very_ unstable upgrade every other year |
| 14:25.28 | wm4 | also as a developer, being on old versions can be a real pain |
| 14:25.41 | rant | I always felt much as greycat expressed though.. that using testing/unstable should be more an obligation of a user to be a tester than to "circumvent" stable |
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| 14:26.17 | rant | if you dont want to use stable just because you dont like it, and you are not actively participating in testing and release of a new stable, then you're not a debian user |
| 14:26.18 | Fox | in "real" business production stable is the only acceptable choice |
| 14:26.26 | petn-randall | this ^ |
| 14:26.39 | annadane | i find hat i need newer can be compiled/run in a vm/other computer/whatever |
| 14:26.57 | annadane | it's assuring to know things don't change |
| 14:27.12 | petn-randall | If you want the shinies and newest stuff, there are tons of distros that do just that. But you'll have to cope with the much higher frequency of bugs, too. |
| 14:27.20 | petn-randall | *shiniest |
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| 14:27.36 | qqz | rant: have you tested another setup? |
| 14:27.37 | wm4 | what business uses Linux on the desktop |
| 14:27.37 | jhutchins_wk | wm4: As a developer, keeping compatibility with older releases has a very strong advantage. Requiring unstable bleeding-edge environments means you can never be taken seriously. |
| 14:27.49 | rant | this is why I say no to rolling cause I seen ubuntu systems crash and burn on updates with their time-based schedule |
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| 14:28.00 | petn-randall | wm4: 70% of the internet? |
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| 14:28.19 | petn-randall | Oh, desktop. The city of munich, many universities, etc. |
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| 14:28.34 | wm4 | petn-randall: yeah, but that's servers |
| 14:28.35 | rant | qqz: I got one with the most bare X and base that is 839M but has no DM/DE/WM or anything |
| 14:28.35 | annadane | also "unstable upgrades"... YMMV but debian does try to make stable -> stable releases pain free |
| 14:28.39 | jhutchins_wk | wm4: We're kind of small, I only manage around 1500 linux servers. |
| 14:29.18 | jhutchins_wk | wm4: Who cares about desktops? They're disposable. They're phones. |
| 14:29.18 | Fox | I've been dist-upgrading for 3 stable releases an never had a real/serious problem |
| 14:29.36 | rant | qqz: I was thinking about what route to go with it while devouring a pizza.. heh.. I was prob gonna try get something with a panel, wm, abiword, gnumeric, etc |
| 14:29.45 | rant | maybe pcmanfm for the file manager |
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| 14:31.02 | wm4 | jhutchins_wk: well I'm using Linux on the desktop (at work too) |
| 14:31.46 | qqz | rant: perhaps I give a short description on my homepage on how to install Debian for low disk space |
| 14:31.52 | rant | qqz: apt install xterm pcmanfm tint2 openbox will use 335MB additional putting below the 1.2G of matchbox and lightdm |
| 14:32.14 | dob1 | ok I am proceeding on disk partition. It is true that is better to not put a swap partition on ssd ? |
| 14:32.49 | rant | qqz: tint2 is a decent lightweight panel, and openbox a rather minimal wm, pcmanfm is a decent looking lighter file manager I think is about as featureful as thunar/caja/nautilus but way smaller |
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| 14:33.15 | qqz | rant: how to measure the disk space occupied by a certain number of packages? |
| 14:34.01 | jhutchins_wk | dob1: If things are normal you won't be swapping,so it doesn't matter. If it were 1995 and you were constantly using the swap it might. |
| 14:34.12 | annadane | the other thing is subjectively i find it can potentially be exhausting to constantly be in charge of updates |
| 14:34.17 | annadane | and keeping track of what changed |
| 14:34.25 | annadane | so that's partially also why some prefer stable |
| 14:34.41 | rant | qqz: not sure how you mean but I just have this vm here with the base install (nothing selected during the installer) and then I told it apt install xserver-xorg at first boot and its 839MB on amd64, and then as I try apt install lines like the one I just told you, it tells me how much additional disk space will be used after install |
| 14:34.51 | rant | qqz: I can just say no and try other ones and see |
| 14:35.07 | dob1 | jhutchins_wk, considering that I will have a "normal" hdd too, I can put the swap partition there then. just to have one |
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| 14:36.10 | qqz | about removing laptop with tasksel: how can I make sure that it does not uninstall anything that may be of use like a battery monitor or so? |
| 14:36.32 | rant | qqz: uninstalling the laptop task is negligable in size difference really |
| 14:36.51 | rant | qqz: but any task is also a meta package typically |
| 14:37.14 | rant | qqz: ie task-laptop |
| 14:37.54 | rant | qqz: so you could say apt remove task-laptop which will only remove the empty metapackage.. then apt autoremove will then remove the packages which were auto-installed as dependencies.. |
| 14:38.26 | rant | qqz: if you see one you want to keep, say no on the autoremove, tell it apt install foo and it will mark foo as manual, then autoremove wont remove it |
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| 14:38.52 | dob1 | I am installing it, thanks rant for all the info about uefi :) |
| 14:39.30 | rant | dob1: it was more bitching about it than anything :P |
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| 14:41.32 | dob1 | which desktop environment is the official one? xfce? |
| 14:41.55 | greycat | What do you mean by "official"? |
| 14:42.00 | rant | there is no official one, gnome is installed if you dont specify |
| 14:42.17 | rant | unless you downloaded something like the xfce iso |
| 14:43.04 | dob1 | greycat, I am on tasksel, I have "desktop environmet selected" then other choice GNOME, Xfce, etc (none of them selected). which one will be installed with just "desktop environment"? |
| 14:43.10 | annadane | gnome |
| 14:44.04 | wm4 | I regret that ubuntu switched from unity to gnome |
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| 14:45.39 | rant | I regret that gnome switched to gnome :P |
| 14:45.52 | dob1 | the gnome shell no... I think I will go with mate or xfce |
| 14:46.15 | rant | yes I think mate, xfce, cinnamon are the most usable ones |
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| 14:46.57 | rant | xfce had a lot of cool things but didnt feel as mature.. there were lil quirks and missing features |
| 14:48.10 | rant | the new mate in buster has several new panel applet packages that have different menus that make it feel more like cinnamon or lxde or such |
| 14:48.28 | annadane | xfce in stretch is unfortunately a tad buggy |
| 14:48.50 | greycat | I still don't use a desktop environment. fvwm 4ever. |
| 14:49.35 | Fox | greycat: you're old (I am too, I use wmaker) |
| 14:49.37 | annadane | (but i still use it because i really like its suite of applications and general way of doing things) |
| 14:49.38 | dob1 | so why there is "debian desktop environment" ( I am translating it) and then gnome again? |
| 14:49.47 | rant | well some things that bugged me switching from mate to xfce for awhile was lack of certain polished off things like mate-volume-control or such.. plugging in external displays on vga or dp would not automatically recall my layout, I'd have to manually enable and configure them, etc.. |
| 14:49.59 | greycat | dob1: apparently someone thought it was a good idea |
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| 14:51.52 | rant | one thing I think needs to be figured out is how to deal with multiple de so that a buncha redundant crap isnt cluttering the menu by default.. |
| 14:52.08 | dob1 | greycat, maybe if I select just the desktop environment it doesn't install the graphical login? |
| 14:52.55 | dob1 | I mean If I select just gnome it doesn't install the graphical login (I don't remember the package name :) |
| 14:53.11 | rant | dob1: gdm |
| 14:53.28 | rant | ,i gdm3 |
| 14:53.29 | judd | Package gdm3 (gnome, optional) in stretch/amd64: GNOME Display Manager. Version: 3.22.3-3+deb9u2; Size: 654.5k; Installed: 4649k; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/gdm3 |
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| 14:54.31 | annadane | it should instal graphical login, those tasksel packages install a crapload of stuff |
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| 14:56.29 | rant | idk why it has one tasksel it calls tasksel in the installer with this confusing redundancy, and no mention of the "laptop" task it seems to install, then installs by default a totally different tasksel :P |
| 14:57.28 | johnjay | i just installed stretch and it asked if i wanted gdm3 or lightdm iirc |
| 14:57.34 | johnjay | i think it doesn't let you choose both? |
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| 14:57.52 | dob1 | johnjay, what you selected on tasksel? |
| 14:57.53 | rant | thats just asking which to run probably cause you had both installed |
| 14:58.03 | johnjay | rant: oh yeah i think you're right |
| 14:58.10 | johnjay | dob1: is tasksel used in the installer? |
| 14:58.18 | rant | you can technically run two but youd have to configure one to run on a diff tty |
| 14:58.27 | johnjay | the menus looked similar. xfce, kde, gnome,web server, ssh |
| 14:58.50 | dob1 | I thought it was tasksel the screen with the software selections |
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| 14:59.13 | johnjay | no rant is right. there's like two of them, one during install and then one from running the tasksel command |
| 14:59.25 | johnjay | just wants to install groups of software like games or math without hassle |
| 14:59.25 | brokencycle | Hi! I am having trouble with my IP filtering on my laptop. |
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| 14:59.53 | annadane | tasksel packages are the default "desktop" packages |
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| 15:00.13 | brokencycle | The trouble is that dnsmasq does not answer requests from my VMs (KVM, KVM2). |
| 15:00.14 | annadane | gnomme kde mate xfce etc, shown in the installer; and they install a lot of misc. stuff some people may not want |
| 15:00.21 | annadane | gnome* |
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| 15:00.42 | annadane | i always uncheck all those and add what i want manually |
| 15:00.55 | brokencycle | Upon inspecting, I find that there are two rulesets being installed, one in the nf_tables style, |
| 15:01.01 | brokencycle | and one in the bpf style. |
| 15:01.21 | brokencycle | These rule sets seem to be somehow not quite compatible. |
| 15:01.41 | brokencycle | In my firehol config, I have added a "policy accept" for all the virtual interfaces, |
| 15:02.05 | brokencycle | but I still get "DROP UNMATCHED IN-world:IN=virbr0 OUT= PHYSIN=vnet1" etc. |
| 15:02.59 | brokencycle | First step, how can I force firehol to use nf_tables? |
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| 15:04.57 | brokencycle | k. found it. |
| 15:05.02 | brokencycle | :( |
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| 15:12.11 | no_gravity | Is there a way to manually trigger the screensave etc? I mean tell the laptop "Hey, I'm done working for a while, you can rest now"? |
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| 15:14.08 | rant | no_gravity: yes |
| 15:15.23 | rant | no_gravity: how thats done depends on what screensaver/lock facility you want to trigger.. xset s blank or such commands do the most basic blanking or dpms off functions |
| 15:15.45 | no_gravity | mawk: I only want to tell the laptop that it can idle for a bit. |
| 15:15.47 | jhutchins_wk | no_gravity: It depends on what desktop you run. Some have a feature to activate it if you mouse off in a certain corner (never worked for me), some have a shortcut to Lock the screen which usually activates the screensaver. |
| 15:15.52 | no_gravity | Optimally via a key-combo. |
| 15:15.59 | rant | no_gravity: if you use lightdm and light-locker they have their own commands |
| 15:16.08 | no_gravity | jhutchins_wk: I use Mate. |
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| 15:16.15 | mawk | yes I get that but if you really want idling for power reasons then just sleep |
| 15:16.23 | mawk | anything else keeps the cpu awake |
| 15:16.26 | mawk | there's no idling |
| 15:16.27 | no_gravity | "sleep"? |
| 15:16.36 | rant | no_gravity: its a low power cpu state |
| 15:16.41 | rant | !sleep |
| 15:16.41 | dpkg | somebody said sleep was for wimpy organic beings. Or, sleep is probably a poor substitute for coffee or for mortals or for the weak or the glory of the cowards and the un-caffeinateds. :-) or the activity of choice for the intelligent person or time which could be spent hacking the planet.. or .. whatever .. ZZzzzz ... fsck: warning: /dev/brain has gone countless hours without being checked. Check forced. zZZzzzz... *zonk* |
| 15:16.45 | mawk | yes, it's called sleep in most OSs |
| 15:16.46 | rant | heh |
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| 15:16.54 | rant | that was useless |
| 15:16.58 | mawk | lol |
| 15:17.07 | rant | but there are pm commands for that |
| 15:17.14 | greycat | not to be confused with sleep(1) I presume |
| 15:17.21 | mawk | yeah |
| 15:17.48 | mawk | well in a single process OS with realtime priority and single core proc sleep() will really halt the processor |
| 15:17.54 | mawk | but you don't do that often |
| 15:17.57 | no_gravity | What is "sleep"? |
| 15:18.03 | rant | like sudo pm-suspend |
| 15:18.03 | mawk | rant said it |
| 15:18.07 | mawk | it's a low power state |
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| 15:18.21 | mawk | like shutdown but the computer can resume immediately |
| 15:18.25 | mawk | with all your windows still open |
| 15:18.26 | rant | no_gravity: its literally a execution state of the cpu.. puts most all hardware to sleep mostly just keeps the ram powered |
| 15:18.32 | no_gravity | I would think the laptop does that when it's idle for a while. |
| 15:18.33 | johnjay | mawk: it's !Jeb! but for your computer |
| 15:18.48 | rant | no_gravity: where a hibernate copies cpu and ram state to disk and powers off completely |
| 15:18.55 | mawk | I don't get it johnjay :( |
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| 15:20.04 | rant | during a hibernate, upon next boot, which will start out like any boot, bios->bootloader->kernel the kernel will find the state file in swap and load it and resume where it left off, during hibernate no power is used |
| 15:20.28 | mawk | we call that extended sleep in french |
| 15:20.33 | mawk | veille prolongée |
| 15:21.30 | rant | sleep/suspend on the other hand is more an energy star compliance mode where power consumption is reduced to like 90+ percent off, disks are parked, radios are off, displays are in dpms sleep, mostly just ram is still powered because the state is stored in ram rather than written to disk |
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| 15:22.19 | mawk | funny thing is that at boot the BIOS configures hard drives so that you don't have access to advanced features like extended secure erase |
| 15:22.26 | rant | you can also simulate such yourself using rfkill for radios, hdparm -Y for disks, and xset dpms commands for displays |
| 15:22.45 | mawk | but since sleep powers down drive you can sleep and wake and the drive is reconfigured, and you can do the advanced stuff |
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| 15:23.28 | rant | but man pm-suspend and related pages explain all this |
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| 15:23.46 | mawk | it's a processor power state also rant I think |
| 15:23.52 | mawk | lowered voltage maybe |
| 15:24.03 | rant | yes it is |
| 15:24.54 | rant | c-states S1-S4 are "waking states" and S5 is shutdown |
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| 15:25.59 | rant | https://software.intel.com/en-us/vtune-amplifier-help-c-state |
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| 15:30.11 | rant | more detailed explaination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface |
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| 15:37.26 | no_gravity | Hmm.. I think I will just do nothing and let the laptop figure out on its own, that it is idle. |
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| 15:38.57 | juko | hi all |
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| 15:41.45 | annadane | hi juko |
| 15:42.51 | dob1 | are UUID in fstab real uniques for every pc ? |
| 15:43.05 | rant | no |
| 15:43.12 | dob1 | I mean can I put an hdd on another pc, just copy the fstab line from the old pc and mount it again? |
| 15:43.19 | dob1 | ah.. |
| 15:43.22 | rant | yes |
| 15:43.33 | dob1 | yes or no? |
| 15:43.33 | rant | they are unique to each filesystem |
| 15:43.34 | jelly | dob1: they're generated with that intent, and it's VERY unlikely you'll find a duplicate |
| 15:43.46 | rant | dob1: you asked two different questions :P |
| 15:43.52 | dob1 | so I just need to change the mountpoint and I am ok? |
| 15:44.00 | rant | the answer to the first is no, the answer to the 2nd is yes |
| 15:44.21 | dob1 | rant, the first one was a bad question :) |
| 15:44.40 | dob1 | because I am trying to move a /home partition |
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| 15:44.55 | rant | dob1: try the commands lsblk to see then things like blkid /dev/sda1 |
| 15:45.09 | rant | dob1: you can also label them to make it easier than using UUID |
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| 15:45.12 | dob1 | I will overmount it on my new home and then I hope to fix uid gid |
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| 15:45.30 | rant | tune2fs -L myhome /dev/sda5 |
| 15:45.45 | rant | then just use LABEL=myhome /home ext4 defaults 0 1 |
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| 15:47.15 | dob1 | I would like to copy the line from the old pc |
| 15:47.21 | dob1 | into the new fstab |
| 15:47.32 | dob1 | comment out the actual home, and I am done (I hope) |
| 15:48.03 | rant | as long as the filesystem is the same, the uuid will be the same.. |
| 15:48.28 | rant | but labels are much easier to work with and can be added after the fact with that tune2fs command |
| 15:48.54 | dob1 | how does the label know the partition? |
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| 15:49.22 | rant | the label and uuid are part of the filesystem |
| 15:49.31 | dob1 | hmm |
| 15:49.36 | rant | the system probes all disks/partitions looking for them |
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| 15:50.52 | rant | technically the partitions have uuid too but its the FS uuid used in things like fstab |
| 15:51.06 | dob1 | rant, now wait you put in fstab LABEL=myhome /home ext4 defaults 0 1 |
| 15:51.17 | dob1 | this is correct? |
| 15:51.37 | dob1 | who know myhome is /dev/something? |
| 15:51.50 | dob1 | I miss this part :) |
| 15:52.03 | rant | dob1: assuming you've tune2fs -L myhome /dev/something on an ext4 partition that has what you want to be /home |
| 15:52.09 | dob1 | ah |
| 15:52.20 | rant | you have to set the label on the filesystem with tune2fs |
| 15:52.48 | rant | as I said before see also the lsblk and blkid commands |
| 15:52.49 | dob1 | you are "marking" the filesystem? |
| 15:53.00 | rant | yes.. |
| 15:53.19 | dob1 | if there are more partition with the same label? |
| 15:53.21 | rant | this is what tune2fs does, it sets various options of an ext2/3/4 filesystem |
| 15:53.31 | rant | then you have a problem.. heh. |
| 15:53.57 | rant | it'll be no more effective than old dev names.. it'll be a first come first serve in the probe |
| 15:54.11 | dob1 | I can run this command tune2fs on the old pc, get the hdd on the new pc |
| 15:54.13 | rant | but since the labels are user defined by the admin.. |
| 15:54.20 | dob1 | and mount it with the label in fstab? |
| 15:54.26 | rant | thats the idea |
| 15:54.39 | rant | labels are more user-friendly than UUID which are long and hard to recognize/remember |
| 15:54.52 | rant | you can give your fs labels you recognize |
| 15:54.56 | dob1 | and If I want to view/remove it? |
| 15:55.13 | rant | do I have to say lsblk and blkid again? |
| 15:55.22 | rant | or tune2fs -L |
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| 15:55.34 | dob1 | tune2fs is just to assign a label? |
| 15:55.52 | rant | 11:53 rant> this is what tune2fs does, it sets various options of an ext2/3/4 filesystem |
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| 15:56.09 | rant | it sets all sorts of things, the reserve, etc |
| 15:56.29 | rant | all the settings it manipulates always exist.. they are part of the filesystem |
| 15:56.36 | rant | all partitions have labels.. they are just blank |
| 15:56.46 | rant | just like they all have uuid |
| 15:57.03 | rant | and setting a label doesnt remove the uuid |
| 15:57.17 | dob1 | ok stupid question, I have 2 partition with label foobar, and in fstab I mount one by label and the other one by uuid, this is ok I suppose |
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| 15:58.08 | rant | any given fs could be identified by its device name(s) /dev/sda1 /dev/disk-by-uuid/abcd-1234-defg-5678 or its LABEL=mylabel or UUID=abcd-1234-defg-5678 |
| 15:58.42 | rant | no.. if you give two partition the same label its same as relying on old /dev/sda1 kinda names |
| 15:58.50 | rant | its whatever one the kernel sees first in a probe |
| 15:59.05 | rant | this is why we invented UUID and LABLES to avoid this |
| 15:59.19 | rant | you're suppose to be smart enough to not user define two fs with the same label |
| 15:59.40 | rant | unlike the UUID, labels are user defined.. UUID are auto-generated |
| 15:59.44 | dob1 | rant, but I said that I mount one by label and one by uuid, this still can cause problems? |
| 15:59.59 | rant | yes because its PROBING to find them |
| 16:00.15 | rant | if it probes the one you called by uuid first, it already knows its labelled foobar |
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| 16:00.25 | rant | so when you say foobar, it'll say.. oh .. here is foobar |
| 16:00.32 | rant | wont bother looking any further |
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| 16:00.46 | rant | things are always in the last place you look :P |
| 16:00.57 | rant | unless you're just crazy.. then you keep looking for em after you found em |
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| 16:01.38 | dob1 | ok but the first entry is by uuid so I mount it, why I have to check which label this fs has? |
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| 16:02.05 | rant | idk.. what difference does it make.. just don't do it :P |
| 16:02.05 | dob1 | so it continue it founds the one by label (that it's a different partition) and it mount it |
| 16:02.27 | rant | the whole point is UUID was created to avoid the probing issues.. |
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| 16:02.43 | dob1 | I like the label idea but for sure I will make confusion |
| 16:03.03 | rant | now /dev/sda1 might be your first sata disk with your rootfs.. if you put in a thumbdrive sda1 may be that thumb drive |
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| 16:03.27 | rant | but uuid will always be unique |
| 16:03.45 | rant | however this had a flaw.. they're long and difficult to recognize and type for people |
| 16:03.52 | jelly | unless you clone the whole disks / partitions |
| 16:03.53 | rant | so they also made the label.. |
| 16:04.15 | dob1 | rant, sorry rant but maybe I miss a point. I have my partition with label myhome. on another pc I have another hdd with a partion named myhome too |
| 16:04.17 | rant | yes which is why I've stressed the uuid that matters in these cases is PART OF THE FS :P |
| 16:04.35 | dob1 | I get the hdd from the other pc and brint it to the first one. can I mount this partition on the first pc? |
| 16:04.40 | dob1 | *bring |
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| 16:04.54 | jelly | you can mount anything anywhere regardless of uuid or label |
| 16:05.00 | jelly | just be careful :-) |
| 16:05.14 | rant | dob1: if you take out the other hdd that is called the same thing, then yeah.. |
| 16:05.22 | jelly | to mount the right thing. uuid helps figure out the right thing. |
| 16:05.25 | rant | if you dont, who knows which one it'll mount |
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| 16:06.11 | greycat | udev^H^H^H^H the shadow knows! |
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| 16:06.34 | dob1 | ok but when I asked: I have 2 partitions with label foobar. in fstab I mount the first one by label and the second one by uuid. you said this can't work |
| 16:06.46 | greycat | You MUST NOT have two partitions with the same label. |
| 16:06.49 | greycat | Stop doing that. |
| 16:07.00 | dob1 | greycat, In different hdd |
| 16:07.35 | rant | what part of the whole reason for UUID and Labels is because the system probes down the bus do you not understand? |
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| 16:08.05 | greycat | Putting the same label on two file systems that can both be attached at the same time would be a DISASTER. |
| 16:08.06 | jelly | dob1: if there is more than one filesystem with same LABEL= you can't know which one will get mounted based on label. |
| 16:08.17 | rant | in legacy times before this, it probed down the IDE bus said ok.. I found a drive.. I'll call this hda, wow, heres another I'll call this hdb.. |
| 16:08.23 | dob1 | infact I said in fast one by label , one by uuid |
| 16:08.28 | dob1 | *fstab |
| 16:08.36 | greycat | Stop doing silly things. |
| 16:08.37 | rant | this was a problem because the bus and how its probed isnt reliable.. wont always be the same |
| 16:08.58 | jelly | dob1: it does not matter, you might still get any of the two mounted with LABEL= |
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| 16:09.34 | jelly | if they have same labels, and you want to mount them automatically, then the safe way if not to use labels to determine mounts at all |
| 16:09.37 | dob1 | I think I am no explaining it in the correct way. no problem thanks anyway |
| 16:09.42 | rant | dob1: the disk will always have a device, a uuid, and a label |
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| 16:10.00 | dob1 | it's my bad english, sorry guys |
| 16:10.05 | rant | dob1: it doesnt matter which ones you use in fstab.. the system is still going to probe the bus at boot |
| 16:10.25 | jelly | dob1: change the fstab to use UUID instead of the clashing label _before_ plugging in the old disk. |
| 16:10.30 | rant | and its going to show exactly what you see if you type lsblk and blkid like I said 3 times before |
| 16:11.21 | dob1 | ok I think I got it at the end :) |
| 16:12.27 | dob1 | you have a lot of patience :) |
| 16:12.52 | jelly | patience is a useful trait when doing support |
| 16:13.30 | EdePopede | create the mountpoints, throw them into fstab together with the UUIDs and then forget about those. |
| 16:13.35 | rant | there was a time when I wasn't sure.. but you set my mind at ease.. there is no doubt your in my heart now |
| 16:13.41 | rant | :P |
| 16:13.49 | rant | whistles |
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| 16:14.11 | dob1 | doing my partitioning I forget to create a /boot partition. years ago it was suggested to create one. It doesn't matter nowadays? |
| 16:14.40 | annadane | for efi i think you need one/ |
| 16:14.42 | annadane | ? |
| 16:14.47 | dob1 | I am not on efi |
| 16:14.53 | rant | you need a ESP partition for efi |
| 16:15.03 | rant | its so advanced it took us back |
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| 16:15.12 | rant | like gnome3 did |
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| 16:15.23 | dob1 | It was years ago, people told me to create it ext2 for journaling problems or whatever |
| 16:15.28 | jelly | it's useful if you want to have LVM and/or encryption on the same disk |
| 16:15.33 | dob1 | but I think it's not used anymore |
| 16:15.44 | rant | yes I have a /boot because my / is on an encrypted lvm |
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| 16:16.30 | dob1 | ok I forget /boot, I don't want to reinstall... |
| 16:16.39 | jelly | grub2 can deal with /boot on ext4 (and more complex setups) now, but if you want to be able to keep using grub-legacy you can still have ext2 or ext3 on the separate /boot |
| 16:16.41 | greycat | if your system boots, don't mess with it |
| 16:17.02 | dob1 | it was at lilo years |
| 16:17.09 | jelly | it's probably easier to do recovery with a live usb now, instead of grub prompt. |
| 16:17.37 | rant | I never did understand grub's prompt :P and I liked lilo's simplistic config |
| 16:18.02 | jelly | grub-legacy had a quite useful console |
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| 16:18.33 | jelly | grub2 is an overengineered PoS...oftware |
| 16:19.49 | EdePopede | btw, i've seen recently that on the live disc legacy and uefi use different boot screens? |
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| 16:21.59 | jhutchins_wk1 | EdePopede: I would expect that what you're seeing is coming from the hardware. |
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| 16:23.54 | jelly | I don't even know what defualt debian live looks like, always use grml.org instead |
| 16:24.03 | jhutchins_wk1 | EdePopede: (By hardware I mean whatever is pre-bootloader. |
| 16:24.30 | EdePopede | jhutchins_wk1: hardware? erm. i looked through the PC's usb boot options for the very first time it seems. one entry with 2 children for legacy and uefi boot. and the uefi version being different and the only one allowing me to change the boot parameters (unless it isn't 'c' in the legacy version) |
| 16:26.11 | Old_Dog | is logging off to spend some time trying to get a little work done. have a nice day everyone. |
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| 16:31.32 | GNU\colossus | grml is amazing |
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| 16:35.54 | jelly | it's almost perfect, expect zsh uses vi keybindings instead of emacs |
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| 16:40.28 | echoSMILE | is this entry correct at "crontab -e" "0 * * * * /bin/command" ? |
| 16:40.59 | greycat | it is syntactically valid |
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| 16:41.07 | greycat | whether it does what you want depends on what you think it does |
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| 16:42.23 | annadane | https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-do-i-add-jobs-to-cron-under-linux-or-unix-oses/ |
| 16:42.32 | annadane | has a nice visual representation |
| 16:42.34 | greycat | "man 5 crontab" |
| 16:42.39 | annadane | (aka i'm too lazy to read man ages) |
| 16:42.41 | annadane | pages |
| 16:42.43 | greycat | has a nice textual representation |
| 16:42.50 | echoSMILE | weird, the command is not executed at that minute |
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| 16:43.07 | greycat | how do you know? |
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| 16:53.17 | annadane | you have your hypothetical command running every hour at 0 minutes |
| 16:53.25 | echoSMILE | greycat hum. Ok, I have a small bash script that creates a file and works from cron. but other bash script doesn't |
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| 16:53.30 | annadane | and you sent your message a 12:42 my time |
| 16:53.33 | annadane | at* |
| 16:53.59 | greycat | echoSMILE: check the logs first to see if it ran, if there were errors, etc. Check the owner's email to see if any output/stderr was mailed. |
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| 16:54.52 | echoSMILE | greycat in which log file is that logged? |
| 16:55.27 | greycat | grep CRON /var/log/syslog is one of the places |
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| 16:56.52 | echoSMILE | (CRON) info (No MTA installed, discarding output) |
| 16:57.29 | greycat | I do not agree with the decision to remove the dependency on a mail-transport-agent to have cron installed, but I didn't get a vote. |
| 16:58.00 | echoSMILE | but the command is executed anyway right? |
| 16:58.07 | greycat | How can you tell? |
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| 17:00.20 | greycat | If you can't or won't install an MTA, I would recommend adding redirections on each command to send output/stderr to a log file. |
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| 17:03.30 | echoSMILE | greycat and "...command > /dev/null" ? |
| 17:03.39 | greycat | that's the exact opposite of what you want |
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| 17:03.56 | greycat | you want to SEE the output and errors so you can figure out why it didn't "work" |
| 17:04.16 | echoSMILE | oh. you mean to debug. sure |
| 17:05.14 | greycat | In the long term, you should install an MTA, and make sure the job only writes output/stderr that you want to see. |
| 17:05.49 | tachikomas | any great command line email client that support imap ? |
| 17:06.02 | greycat | if you mean terminal, mutt |
| 17:06.16 | greycat | if you literally mean command line I don't *know* of any except mh and I've never used mh |
| 17:06.26 | tachikomas | i do, i will take a look into mutt then |
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| 17:07.27 | tachikomas | thanks |
| 17:10.13 | echoSMILE | greycat well, the bash script is executed because he create a file, no output generated, and commands inside that bash script wasn't executed (some iptables rules) |
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| 17:10.19 | karlpinc | I _think_ one of those mailx or mail or bsd-mail packages will do command line email reading, but mutt is better. I think. You can always just use less on the file where the mail goes, or some editor, if all you want is to read. |
| 17:11.07 | karlpinc | remembers that emacs has a mail mode |
| 17:11.08 | greycat | s-nail has IMAP in its man page, if that helps |
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| 17:12.21 | jhutchins_wk | (al)pine |
| 17:12.42 | karlpinc | I did use emacs for a while as my mail client. The only problem was "office document" attachments, so I eventually used something GUI. |
| 17:12.44 | phazon | emacs has an everything-mode :-) |
| 17:13.09 | jhutchins_wk | emacs space shuttle launch command mode. |
| 17:13.20 | karlpinc | jhutchins_wk: Right. Didn't pine itself eventually lose support, or something? So now there's a replacment? (alpine?) |
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| 17:13.37 | jhutchins_wk | karlpinc: I think it's a license issue. |
| 17:13.41 | greycat | pine is non-free |
| 17:13.47 | karlpinc | Right, that is what it was. |
| 17:13.54 | greycat | the editor from pine, pico, was cloned as nano |
| 17:14.03 | jhutchins_wk | I never did figure out mutt's configuration. |
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| 17:14.07 | galaxie | jhutchins_wk: We should inform Elon Musk the proper way to launch space ships :P |
| 17:14.17 | greycat | mutt has a LOT of configuration options; I only know a tiny subset |
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| 17:14.50 | galaxie | I only use the ones that were immediately useful to me, same thing as Emacs and every other big software package for that matter. |
| 17:14.52 | karlpinc | is using emacs for irc right now |
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| 17:17.49 | annadane | still trying to decide if i should just use 25 wich stretch or compile 26 |
| 17:17.54 | annadane | with stretch* |
| 17:17.56 | maxxe | hi |
| 17:18.02 | annadane | hi |
| 17:18.05 | maxxe | :) |
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| 17:26.12 | morf | hello friends |
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| 17:26.58 | morf | stupid question if you know the answer pls... how much is debian unstable rolling compared to arch pls? (no trolling) ... is it like real rolling or more like trying to keep stable versions for more stable versions? |
| 17:27.13 | greycat | !rolling |
| 17:27.13 | dpkg | Testing is not a rolling release in the strict sense of the word. It is a test platform, currently codenamed <buster>. It is part of the Debian development process and is gradually being built into the next <stable>. Please go to #debian-next on irc.debian.org for support. See <moving target>. |
| 17:27.52 | morf | so yeah... thanks greycat :) still inventory of #debian? :)) |
| 17:27.57 | morf | nice to see you ;) |
| 17:28.53 | morf | also ... any "lucky" debian user @ gemini pda? any experience? |
| 17:29.01 | indomitable | gemini pda? |
| 17:29.28 | morf | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device--2 |
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| 17:29.40 | morf | this thing ... it has "official" debian version |
| 17:29.41 | indomitable | that looks expensive as shit |
| 17:29.42 | indomitable | lol |
| 17:29.47 | morf | yeah :( |
| 17:29.56 | morf | but it's nice toy (for me) ... |
| 17:30.05 | morf | hate mobile phones, want "pocket computer" |
| 17:30.34 | indomitable | I would definitely buy that if I had spare cash floating around and free time to mess with it |
| 17:30.42 | indomitable | but that's like 5 fully kitted raspberry pis |
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| 17:31.01 | indomitable | that reminds me I should order some IR cameras |
| 17:31.58 | morf | hm yeah sure ... that's what i think |
| 17:32.12 | morf | but too much work, too little time... didn't even flash it yet |
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| 18:06.38 | echoSMILE | greycat at bash script, the command need the complete path -_-' |
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| 18:08.27 | greycat | the PATH provided to cron jobs is just /usr/bin:/bin according to crontab(5) |
| 18:09.04 | greycat | if your script relies on commands outside of those directories, you'll have to act accordingly, often by setting PATH to something longer inside the script |
| 18:09.57 | morf | have fun |
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| 18:10.11 | echoSMILE | I need for sure a intensive shell scripting course |
| 18:10.14 | echoSMILE | ty |
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| 18:31.01 | lisbeths | How can I find the email of the developer of this package: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/expect |
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| 18:31.39 | greycat | lisbeths: apt-cache show expect | grep ^Maintainer |
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| 18:35.38 | DarreDevyll | anyone by chance know how to get brave on parrot os? I have no idea what I'm doing here |
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| 18:36.08 | dax | !parrot |
| 18:36.08 | dpkg | Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrotsec on Freenode, the community pages https://docs.parrotsec.org/community, or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>. |
| 18:37.18 | DarreDevyll | thanks for the help. I'll check there |
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| 18:41.51 | jhutchins_wk1 | Full paths are almost always a good idea. |
| 18:42.01 | Kobaz | having a really weird issue.... every so often when waking up my monitors, DisplayPort-0 is blank |
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| 18:43.51 | greycat | jhutchins_wk1: Disagree. For standard commands, a full path should NOT be given, because those move around from system to system. It's better to set the PATH variable to include all the places they may live. |
| 18:44.11 | Kobaz | i then do: xrandr --output DisplayPort-0 --mode 1680x1050; sleep 1; xrandr --output DisplayPort-0 --mode 1920x1080 |
| 18:44.15 | Kobaz | and then my monitor is back online |
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| 18:52.58 | indomitable | what is xrandr |
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| 19:39.16 | Guest65 | lively ... eh? |
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| 19:44.44 | Guest65 | anyone know how to do the SASL thing? |
| 19:45.20 | greycat | if you're talking about some Freenode auth thing, better to ask #freenode |
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| 19:46.07 | qqz | I have an eeepc 4g with Debian 9 testing but the battery monitor of matchbox fails to display the battery state |
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| 19:46.18 | qqz | installing upower alone has not resolved the problem |
| 19:46.25 | qqz | is there anything else missing? |
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| 19:48.06 | humpled | is it shown in /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0 or similar? |
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| 19:51.22 | qqz | yews /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status says full |
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| 19:52.00 | qqz | and besides this another question: I have no shutdown or logout button in matchbox; how can I add one? |
| 19:52.53 | humpled | what panel is it? wouldn't you rather just use the power button? |
| 19:53.26 | qqz | I haven´t tried this; normally there is a software shutdown option for gracfeul shutdown |
| 19:53.38 | humpled | sure, |
| 19:53.44 | qqz | it should shutdown via the window manager not via init 0 |
| 19:53.52 | humpled | and i always link the hardware button to it because i'm lazy |
| 19:54.55 | hypn0 | is matchbox lighter than openbox? |
| 19:55.26 | qqz | no but it is said to have a more feature rich application menu |
| 19:55.40 | qqz | does openbox also have an application menu; perhaps I should try it |
| 19:56.44 | hypn0 | you can add one I guess, but normally you have to add manually, there is a gui |
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| 19:59.41 | qqz | hypn0: what is the console command to shut down gracefully via the window manager? |
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| 20:01.16 | Guest65 | ? as root? shutdown [how] -r [reboot] -h [hard] when like NOW |
| 20:01.45 | qqz | I believe that does not go via the window manager |
| 20:01.47 | humpled | you could try ls /usr/bin | grep -i "matchbox" to see if there are some relevant commands there |
| 20:01.50 | qqz | it should be possible as user |
| 20:01.57 | hypn0 | shutdown now |
| 20:02.16 | humpled | not many people have used matchbox qqz |
| 20:02.21 | hypn0 | is there a panel? |
| 20:02.40 | hypn0 | or do you have to install one? |
| 20:03.05 | qqz | it should be the same for any desktop environment |
| 20:03.19 | qqz | I remember there was something like kcmctl logout 0 0 |
| 20:03.28 | hypn0 | there is halt, poweroff too |
| 20:03.36 | qqz | but there should be a generic wmctl utility to do that |
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| 20:04.21 | Guest65 | kicker ? |
| 20:04.41 | hypn0 | in opennbox we use tint2 panel |
| 20:05.10 | hypn0 | you can use others |
| 20:05.17 | qqz | I have tint |
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| 20:06.26 | Scorpion2185 | Hi |
| 20:06.27 | hypn0 | do you have to add applets or something |
| 20:06.32 | qqz | ahh systemctl |
| 20:06.48 | Scorpion2185 | Can i install nvidia driver from sid? i am on debian 9 stable |
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| 20:09.05 | qqz | but my other question was how to make the battery display work |
| 20:09.12 | qqz | installing upower is not sufficient |
| 20:09.27 | Guest65 | qqz app gkrellm |
| 20:10.09 | qqz | and can I use the matchbox plugin as well? |
| 20:10.19 | qqz | I guess it misses some support infrastructure |
| 20:10.27 | Guest65 | i dont know matchbox |
| 20:10.47 | Scorpion2185 | Can i install nvidia driver from sid? i am on debian 9 stable |
| 20:10.58 | Guest65 | 2185 why? |
| 20:11.30 | Scorpion2185 | dxvk |
| 20:11.35 | Scorpion2185 | needs 418 at lest |
| 20:12.18 | Scorpion2185 | direct x to vulkan |
| 20:13.47 | greycat | ,v xserver-xorg-video-nvidia |
| 20:13.48 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 390.87-8~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.116-1; buster/non-free: 410.104-3; sid/non-free: 418.56-2 |
| 20:14.07 | greycat | ,checkbackport xserver-xorg-video-nvidia |
| 20:14.08 | judd | Backporting package xserver-xorg-video-nvidia in sidâstretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 20:14.22 | Scorpion2185 | Can I install it form sid? |
| 20:14.23 | greycat | Questionable. I'm not smart enough for it. |
| 20:14.25 | greycat | No. |
| 20:14.44 | greycat | You definitely cannot install the sid package. The question is whether you can install a BACKPORT of the package, and that I do not know. |
| 20:15.22 | greycat | I'll also point out in passing that the version you covet won't even be in buster. |
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| 20:16.11 | greycat | ,checkbackport xserver-xorg-video-nvidia --torelease buster |
| 20:16.12 | judd | Backporting package xserver-xorg-video-nvidia in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 20:16.16 | greycat | O_o |
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| 20:16.22 | greycat | dayum |
| 20:16.47 | qqz | which gkrellm plugin will I need? |
| 20:17.01 | Scorpion2185 | I checked that packcage is only in sid not evene in buster |
| 20:17.14 | Scorpion2185 | can someone backported it? |
| 20:17.16 | qqz | I think the one it offers is thinkpad specific |
| 20:17.19 | greycat | Again, the thing I was checking was whether it is POSSIBLE to BACKPORT the thing from sid to buster. |
| 20:17.19 | Guest65 | gkrellm plugins are in the app |
| 20:17.37 | uberwag | hi, if i want to get e-mail notifications from my little debian vps (mainly for unattended auto updates), i install bsd-mailx package? does this need any further configuration? is this the easiest solution? i have no experience with this |
| 20:17.48 | greycat | And the bot's answer is "Not easily, at least." |
| 20:18.12 | greycat | uberwag: you need a mail transport agent (MTA) |
| 20:18.31 | greycat | mailx just injects messages into the MTA's queue for processing |
| 20:18.48 | Guest65 | sendmail works |
| 20:19.00 | jhutchins_wk1 | Is exim still the default MTA? |
| 20:19.03 | greycat | exim4, postfix, sendmail, many other choices |
| 20:19.07 | greycat | yes, jhutchins_wk1 |
| 20:19.42 | uberwag | greycat: ok and what MTA is easiest to use you think? |
| 20:19.55 | greycat | whichever one you already know |
| 20:20.00 | uberwag | i read postfix configuration is not easy? |
| 20:20.08 | uberwag | greycat: i have no experience |
| 20:20.15 | Scorpion2185 | What happen if i download and install from sid the 418 drivers? |
| 20:20.22 | greycat | !don't break debian |
| 20:20.22 | dpkg | methinks dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian |
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| 20:21.04 | greycat | the short answer is you won't be ABLE to install them without bringing in many, many more dependencies from sid |
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| 20:21.11 | jmcnaught | uberwag: you just need a null mailer, take a look at msmtp-mta, it's pretty easy. "aptitude search ~Pmail-transport-agent" to see the available options |
| 20:21.29 | greycat | A null mailer only works if you have a smarthost you can route all your outgoing mail through. |
| 20:21.41 | Scorpion2185 | ok so I must upgrade to sid to buster is not enough? |
| 20:22.00 | uberwag | graycat, jmcnaught: i just want notifications to end up in my gmail really |
| 20:22.01 | greycat | Scorpion2185: *I* personally do not know. You need someone with direct experience backporting nvidia drivers. |
| 20:22.25 | greycat | uberwag: well, exim4 is the default, so try that and see how it goes. |
| 20:23.01 | Scorpion2185 | uhm ok thanks, I will ask on the debian forum |
| 20:23.38 | uberwag | greycat: ok will give that a shot |
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| 20:25.07 | uberwag | is having such an MTA on your server creating any security risks for the server? |
| 20:25.19 | jhutchins_wk1 | Actually, debconf makes exim4 pretty easy. |
| 20:25.35 | greycat | if you configure it ONLY for outgoing, and do not listen for incoming, then it's hard to see how it could be a security issue |
| 20:25.52 | jhutchins_wk1 | (Then again, I hand-wrote my own sendmail.cfg, so I may not be a good judge.) |
| 20:26.05 | uberwag | greycat: true, so i must make sure it's only for sending out, ok |
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| 20:26.54 | greycat | that's what you said you wanted |
| 20:27.08 | greycat | it's not even clear whether you HAVE a domain name |
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| 20:27.17 | greycat | and without a domain name, you will not be receiving mail |
| 20:27.28 | uberwag | greycat: yes that is what i wanted, only for sending notifications from the server to my gmail |
| 20:27.38 | uberwag | i was just confirming it really |
| 20:27.42 | Guest65 | no FQDN you aint getting mail [ i dont think ] |
| 20:28.07 | jhutchins_wk1 | uberwag: You might have some trouble getting gmail to accept mail from a non-registered non-commercial source. |
| 20:28.34 | greycat | we'd need more detail |
| 20:30.21 | Guest65 | spf davm mail checkers they look |
| 20:30.26 | uberwag | well i installed unattended-upgrades on the vps, but in case this goes wrong, it can send notifications to an e-mail address |
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| 20:30.47 | uberwag | i would like to use my gmail for that, so i can always see these notifications |
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| 20:32.21 | uberwag | https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-keep-debian-linux-patched-with-latest-security-updates-automatically/ |
| 20:32.25 | uberwag | like that |
| 20:32.44 | JerryS | I hope someone can help me here. I'm trying to install debian-9.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso on a USB stick under VirtualBox (Windows). I get to the point where it is installing the base system and have a failure trying to install the busybox package. |
| 20:32.56 | Guest65 | ya could do a cron |
| 20:32.57 | uberwag | so in this tutorial it just says i need to install bsd-mailx but nothing else really |
| 20:33.05 | JerryS | I've seen some old hits on this, but nothing relatively recent with a fix. Has anyone seen this? |
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| 20:34.01 | uberwag | Guest65: yes but i think the package already use a cron to send those notifications out |
| 20:34.06 | greycat | ,depends bsd-mailx |
| 20:34.07 | judd | Package bsd-mailx in stretch/amd64 -- depends: base-files (>= 2.2.0), default-mta | mail-transport-agent, libbsd0 (>= 0.2.0), libc6 (>= 2.17), liblockfile1 (>= 1.0). |
| 20:34.28 | JohnA | Any advise on a "good" simple backup system for a family server. I have just put it server back on its feet, after discovering that the back system/program I had been using did not work. Suggestions? |
| 20:34.36 | greycat | Installing bsd-mailx will also install an MTA due to the dependencies, unless your VPS already *has* one. |
| 20:34.50 | uberwag | greycat: ah ok |
| 20:34.57 | uberwag | but then i need to configure that right? |
| 20:35.00 | digdilem | JohnA, backup-manager is simple and works well. backuppc is good for multiple machines |
| 20:35.05 | greycat | uberwag: probably. |
| 20:35.15 | uberwag | it won't just be able to send to my gmail without config i guess |
| 20:35.21 | uberwag | i can test I guess |
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| 20:38.47 | jhutchins_wk1 | uberwag: I think those instructions are probably intended to send mail to a local user, not a remote account. |
| 20:39.10 | greycat | outgoing mail's not really complex |
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| 20:39.55 | greycat | what really matters is whether the recipient will be willing to accept mail from you, and that's usually a matter of your DNS being configured correctly, which basically boils down to "my domain name -- did I set it up correctly" |
| 20:40.06 | greycat | which in turn boils down to "I have a domain name" |
| 20:40.13 | Guest65 | sendmail mailx can send to a remote account |
| 20:40.26 | greycat | if you don't have a domain name, then it's questionable what you are even doing on a VPS |
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| 20:42.41 | uberwag | guest65: ok, will also have a look at sendmail |
| 20:42.54 | greycat | I don't recommend sendmail as a first MTA |
| 20:43.32 | greycat | on a difficulty scale from 1 to 10, sendmail's a 13 |
| 20:43.40 | uberwag | well i can also check the logs regularly, but i rather have e-mail notifications |
| 20:44.08 | Guest65 | i dont recall doing anything to send mail |
| 20:44.49 | greycat | if you have a domain name and your server is configured as a host within that domain and DNS is all set up forward/backward, then the defaults probably Just Worked |
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| 20:45.26 | Guest65 | i do get mail rejected for not having a FQDN |
| 20:45.34 | greycat | I've dropped strong hints like half a dozen times now and not once has uberwag stepped forward to say "Oh, I have a domain name, it's ___ and my server is ____" |
| 20:45.49 | uberwag | greycat: i dont have domain name |
| 20:46.05 | greycat | then how do you contact your VPS |
| 20:46.06 | jhutchins_wk1 | blackvpn from the ukrane, he's not likely to give much detail. |
| 20:46.24 | Guest65 | dude it should be *you*.VPS.com |
| 20:46.32 | greycat | type the IP address in by hand every time? |
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| 20:47.35 | uberwag | greycat: i mean, the server maybe have a default domain from the hosting |
| 20:47.39 | uberwag | but i have not purchased a domain |
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| 20:49.07 | uberwag | Guest65: yes it will probably be some domain like that, like 14-131-21-1.vps.com |
| 20:49.34 | greycat | Well, you need to put some name on your email saying who it's from. |
| 20:49.49 | greycat | the recipient (gmail) may or may not care about that |
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| 20:50.06 | Guest65 | gmail will care |
| 20:50.06 | uberwag | ok |
| 20:50.14 | greycat | as years go by and the world is more and more attacked by spam, more and more people care. |
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| 20:53.28 | greycat | As the sender, you are basically putting two pieces of information on each outgoing message: your hostname (HELO), and an email address of the person sending the mail (MAIL FROM). |
| 20:54.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1542] by debhelper |
| 20:54.59 | greycat | *Most* recipient will do a DNS lookup on your IP address and compare that against your HELO string (usually also doing a DNS lookup of the HELO string, sometimes even attempting to contact the MTA assigned to your domain name). |
| 20:55.24 | greycat | So, ideally your HELO string should match up with your IP address. |
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| 20:56.15 | uberwag | ok i understand it better, so you need a trustworthy domain, so the receiving mailserver can check if the message is coming from where it says it's coming from |
| 20:56.55 | Guest65 | yes |
| 20:58.01 | uberwag | that also basically means that it is not very easy to setup a mail notification for alerts on your server, i mean, i don't need a domain, i don't really need e-mail functionality, but i just think e-mail alerts are better than trusting me to regularly check the server :) |
| 20:58.29 | greycat | I'm still wondering what your server *does*, if it doesn't even have a name. |
| 20:58.48 | greycat | Obviously not a web server. |
| 20:59.05 | greycat | Definitely not (yet) a mail server. |
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| 20:59.40 | uberwag | greycat: no it's not a webserver, it runs some scripts only for now |
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| 21:00.40 | uberwag | when i was following the tutorial how to setup unattended auto updates for debian, it included sending e-mail notifications for when the process fails |
| 21:01.03 | uberwag | that brought me here |
| 21:01.11 | greycat | that's because most people's servers have names, and setting up email is not difficult if your server has a name |
| 21:01.19 | uberwag | i understand |
| 21:01.55 | Guest65 | wtf is its hostname |
| 21:02.08 | uberwag | Guest65: debian :) |
| 21:02.24 | Guest65 | no .local or anything? |
| 21:03.19 | greycat | the whole thing may be moot if his secretive Ukrainian VPS service is blacklisted as a spammer, which is sounding more and more likely the longer this goes on |
| 21:03.19 | uberwag | no.. |
| 21:03.30 | Guest65 | and the hostname for the VPS is |
| 21:04.46 | uberwag | greycat: it's nothing like that, why people take offense here if you use a vpn? that's really weird |
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| 21:05.23 | uberwag | the vpn has nothing to do with my question about a normal vps that just running some python scripts, it's a little vps, with 512mb ram, nothing fancy, i just never have had any domain connected to it |
| 21:05.49 | greycat | is your VPN's public endpoint 213.155.31.59 the same IP address as your server? |
| 21:06.12 | uberwag | greycat: no |
| 21:06.27 | uberwag | totally unrelated |
| 21:07.25 | greycat | well, good luck. |
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| 21:08.41 | Guest65 | debian.nodomain.com aint getting mail from remote |
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| 21:09.12 | uberwag | Guest65: but i dont need to get mail from remote.. the vps just needs to send notifications out |
| 21:09.17 | uberwag | of things that happen on the server |
| 21:09.26 | uberwag | such as the auto updates |
| 21:09.27 | Guest65 | to who? |
| 21:09.34 | *** part/#debian sdcdeep_ (~Morph4me2@d67-193-224-40.home3.cgocable.net) |
| 21:09.40 | uberwag | to any e-mail of mine, but preferably my gmail |
| 21:10.11 | uberwag | as in this article: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-keep-debian-linux-patched-with-latest-security-updates-automatically/ |
| 21:10.14 | Guest65 | mailx to you at gmail then... see if it works |
| 21:11.01 | uberwag | ok, you suggest i just install mailx and then try from command line? |
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| 21:11.19 | Guest65 | yes with a MTA |
| 21:11.23 | Guest65 | also |
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| 21:37.49 | ws2k3 | did debian replace nagios with icinga in the repository in debian 9 ? |
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| 21:51.00 | rant | ws2k3: would appear so.. there is icinga and icinga2 and some nagios plugins but I dont see any nagios |
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| 21:59.06 | rant | ,v nagios3 |
| 21:59.07 | judd | Package: nagios3 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.5.1.dfsg-2+b1; jessie-security: 3.5.1.dfsg-2+deb8u1 |
| 21:59.26 | jmcnaught | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=845765 |
| 21:59.27 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/845765 in wnpp (closed): «O: nagios3 -- host/service/network monitoring and management system»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-11-26; last modified: 2016-12-25. |
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| 21:59.54 | rant | thats odd cause p.d.o showed it in sid |
| 22:00.12 | rant | I asked judd just to see if it might have been backported |
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| 22:15.06 | magic_ninja | What is the best practice when installing software from source? I've heard you should install it into your home directory rather than system-wide. |
| 22:16.37 | EdePopede | magic_ninja: simply don't mess with the system. stay in areas where dpkg doesn't live. $HOME, /usr/local, and also /opt are safe. |
| 22:17.23 | magic_ninja | EdePopede, so I would just change my install paths in the makefile? |
| 22:17.52 | magic_ninja | Honestly, I would prefer to just install the entire thing in my home directory so it is always there. |
| 22:19.27 | EdePopede | as long as you're the only user it should make no difference where it is in the end. i only try to keep this kind of stuff out of my $HOME mostly, testing things and scripts i throw in are an exception |
| 22:20.17 | EdePopede | don't even know about any recommendations when to use what, besides /opt being used by some external packages like chrome and similar |
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| 22:22.13 | annadane | a bunch of software will install into /usr/local by default so i've just sort of been doing that |
| 22:23.40 | annadane | when the software is finished compiling one can "whereis foo" to see where foo installed |
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| 22:25.52 | magic_ninja | Well, I was thinking about doing three partitions. Swap, / and /home and just installing random script stuff to $HOME |
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| 22:26.09 | magic_ninja | Using Timeshift for backup |
| 22:26.21 | magic_ninja | rather for system configuration backup |
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| 22:27.11 | magic_ninja | I've never actually been in a situation where I need to set my system up that way. |
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| 22:29.27 | EdePopede | annadane: but nothing from the repos i hope? |
| 22:30.26 | annadane | well sure for things i want new versions o |
| 22:30.27 | annadane | of |
| 22:30.32 | annadane | it's reallt just emacs and vim |
| 22:30.37 | annadane | i can't spell |
| 22:30.44 | indomitable | that's ok |
| 22:30.45 | indomitable | no one can |
| 22:30.51 | indomitable | they'd be a wizard elsewise |
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| 22:31.01 | indomitable | avada kedavra! |
| 22:32.04 | rant | only real reason for a swap partition is for hibernation |
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| 22:32.15 | indomitable | then you're wrong, rant |
| 22:32.19 | indomitable | how does it feel to be wrong |
| 22:32.55 | rant | feels like you're ignore worthy, to be honest |
| 22:33.37 | rant | swap files can be created as needed and deleted as needed.. swap partitions are harder to reclaim space from.. if you're swapping you're slowing down and out of ram regardless.. |
| 22:33.49 | indomitable | I have a raspberry pi that needs swap |
| 22:33.52 | indomitable | I assure you it never sleeps |
| 22:33.55 | indomitable | or hibernates |
| 22:34.04 | rant | congratulations |
| 22:34.11 | indomitable | anyway you seem willfully ignorant |
| 22:34.13 | indomitable | good luck with that |
| 22:34.17 | indomitable | I'm sure you'll be president some day |
| 22:34.28 | magic_ninja | I think the works are a bit more complicated than that. |
| 22:34.44 | magic_ninja | Specific programs can/will use virtual memory rather than RAM |
| 22:34.57 | rant | yes an they will use it just the same in a swapfile |
| 22:35.23 | indomitable | magic_ninja, you seem sensible, you can have an internet cookie |
| 22:36.03 | EdePopede | rant: my other one with 4GB running live w/o swap does a better job than this one with 2GB, at least when firefox is running for a while |
| 22:36.44 | rant | yes it will use swap if it has it and pages are not being used, then you will experience io overhead when it swaps in or out |
| 22:37.10 | rant | the point I was making is that for as little importance as swap is, you can use FILES rather than PARTITIONS |
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| 22:37.51 | rant | because partitions are more permanent, files can be created/deleted without modifying filesystems and partition tables to reclaim space, and as long as you're not hibernating your swap doesn't need to be in a PARTITION |
| 22:39.21 | rant | dd bs=1M count=2048 if=/dev/zero of=/swapfile && mkswap /swapfile && swapon /swapfile and swapoff /swapfile && rm /swapfile |
| 22:39.52 | rant | you wanna grow it beyond 2GB, just repeat the proceedure, make a 2nd file |
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| 22:41.06 | metbsd | is there web application to manager debian server? |
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| 22:42.01 | EdePopede | rant: the argument partitions vs swap has been speed. still an issue on classic hd? |
| 22:43.00 | rant | sure but many have ssd on much faster busses now, and if you're swapping you got bigger problems than how fast you're doing it typically |
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| 22:43.28 | rant | and if spindle speed and geometry are your concern spreading swap across multiple disks easily with small swapfiles makes more sense |
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| 22:44.15 | EdePopede | had 2 partitions for some time on 2 disks. both used to be system disks before and i never bothered repartitioning |
| 22:45.15 | rant | swap is also good to have if you have probability of reaching your memory limits in your workflow.. say you have like 1-2GB ram and edit photos in batch in gimp a lot and you might tell it to open 10 too many one time based on their file size.. |
| 22:45.30 | rant | swap will keep your system from totally hanging while you correct these things |
| 22:45.42 | EdePopede | what's really boring is to wait for the unswapping to finish after swapoff. tried it some weeks ago, took some time :> |
| 22:45.47 | rant | but if you're getting to that point you're still slowing way down and have bigger problems to address |
| 22:45.59 | EdePopede | OOM-Killer, yeah. met the bastard before |
| 22:46.50 | EdePopede | golden rule: never wait too long with RAM upgrades, should you have plans to keep the PC |
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| 22:48.53 | magic_ninja | metbsd, ssh :) |
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| 22:55.49 | rant | I have 8gb ram on this machine and 4gb swap in two swapfiles, my resident memory even using lots of browser tabs and vms running never really goes over 4gb, leaving half my ram to cache and swap is 0% in use.. I had a 128GB SSD, partitioning out that 4GB I may need if my work flow increases to avoid going to network or external disk for space, is not logical |
| 22:56.36 | victorqueiroz | I just got a stuck on my ryzen CPU while using Debian. They happen in random and I don't know what to do. Can somebody help me please? I've read that some people are also having it |
| 22:56.44 | rant | I dont use hibernate.. so I dont need to waste 8GB of my disk on swap partition |
| 22:57.37 | rant | victorqueiroz: were you using superglue on your fingers before touching the cpu? |
| 22:57.51 | victorqueiroz | What? ð |
| 22:57.54 | rant | heh |
| 22:58.06 | rant | I'm ridiculing how vague you're being |
| 22:58.31 | rant | victorqueiroz: did you attempt to issue any sysrq commands, read any logs, what do you mean by stuck? |
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| 22:59.16 | rant | furthermore are you using cpu integrated graphics, that maybe this is a gpu related issue? |
| 22:59.18 | victorqueiroz | Sorry. Is there a way I can send you a log or something? The freeze just happen sometimes. It completely gets locked, can't move mouse, turn on/off numlock, change to system bash (i.e. Ctrl+alt+f1/f2 etc). |
| 22:59.33 | victorqueiroz | I'm using AMD GPU RX 490 |
| 22:59.53 | EdePopede | victorqueiroz: anything relevant in syslog or kern.log near the end? |
| 22:59.53 | rant | victorqueiroz: the numlock is telling, but if it responds to sysrq is particularly significant |
| 23:00.14 | rant | victorqueiroz: you can upload logs to paste.debian.net or cat log | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 23:00.15 | victorqueiroz | It used to happen with another GPU and only happens on Debian. But I don't want to use another Linux distribution |
| 23:00.22 | EdePopede | is sysrq on by default? don't remember if i hat to change this |
| 23:00.34 | rant | yes its enabled by default in debian kernels |
| 23:00.52 | rant | I personally always try a SAK before I assume the kernel hung completely |
| 23:01.07 | rant | after trying the things victorqueiroz mentioned |
| 23:01.24 | victorqueiroz | I already rebooted the system. Where can I find kern.log or syslog? |
| 23:01.45 | rant | probably in /var/log/kern.log.1 |
| 23:02.20 | EdePopede | had this one before stretch, the same softlock for 23s > https://blog.seibert-media.com/2018/01/04/log-book-linux-cpu-lockups/ |
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| 23:03.22 | rant | victorqueiroz: furthermore if your CPU is particularly new, you may benefit from a newer kernel.. 4.19 as opposed to 4.9 is in backports |
| 23:03.56 | rant | ,kernels |
| 23:03.57 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-4-686-pae (4.19.28-2); buster: 4.19.0-4-686-pae (4.19.28-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (4.19.28-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.144-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.144-3.1~deb8u1); wheezy-backports: |
| 23:03.58 | judd | 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1) |
| 23:03.59 | victorqueiroz | kern.log: https://pastebin.com/rssdChxT |
| 23:04.12 | rant | ugh |
| 23:04.18 | victorqueiroz | rant: I'm using 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 |
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| 23:05.35 | rant | I try to keep my dickishness to a minimum, but I find what you did there doubly offensive.. pastebin.com is ignorant because it has popups, heavy scripts, cookies, TLS, etc.. and its doubly ignorant cause you asked first and I gave you two cleaner options :P |
| 23:06.00 | JohnDoe2 | I'm trying to debootstrap a usb stick and it keeps saying "E: couldn't download dists/stable/main/binary-armhf/Packages". Do I need to specify where to look for armhf packages? |
| 23:06.04 | rant | not to mention its probably in the /topic :D |
| 23:06.40 | victorqueiroz | OK, sorry |
| 23:06.50 | rant | JohnDoe2: you need to specify for one thing the command you issued.. |
| 23:07.08 | JohnDoe2 | true moo. debootstrap --verbose --arch=armhf stable ${MNT} |
| 23:07.29 | victorqueiroz | I use pastebin for a long time now. Would you have a better option to suggest? |
| 23:07.48 | JohnDoe2 | I also tried --foreign stretch (but that's not quite foreign since I am on stretch) |
| 23:08.06 | rant | JohnDoe2: well thats the rub then, that arch was dropped |
| 23:08.30 | JohnDoe2 | that's a bummer |
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| 23:09.04 | rant | oh, maybe I'm wrong |
| 23:09.07 | rant | I thought they renamed armhf |
| 23:09.20 | ozzloy | victorqueiroz, https://paste.debian.net and termbin.com |
| 23:09.47 | rant | no, stretches release notes does say armhf |
| 23:09.52 | victorqueiroz | ozzloy: Thank you |
| 23:10.04 | victorqueiroz | The strange thing is that on my kern.log I can't find anything about 'panic' or lockup |
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| 23:10.26 | ozzloy | victorqueiroz, thank rant, i just read above and found that from rant |
| 23:11.02 | victorqueiroz | rant: thank you |
| 23:11.13 | rant | JohnDoe2: but the --foreign thing is not for the BRANCH its for the ARCH because obviously a foreign arch like x86 cant execute arm code.. so it does as much as it can in one stage and leaves the chroot ready to finish the rest inside an arch that can support it in a 2nd stage |
| 23:11.37 | rant | victorqueiroz: yes well if it really did hang hard it prob wouldnt have logged anything to disk |
| 23:11.46 | JohnDoe2 | ok that makes sense, so I'll keep foreign but it still fails to download |
| 23:12.09 | victorqueiroz | I've read some guys with Ryzen have this problem but I'm not sure what to do. Would you have a suggestion? Maybe compile by myself latest kernel version or something? |
| 23:12.24 | rant | JohnDoe2: yes well this is also why I asked the command so I could check the mirror you were using.. but you didnt specify a mirror |
| 23:12.50 | ozzloy | termbin is awesome! thanks rant! |
| 23:13.23 | JohnDoe2 | I have specified 2 mirrors I found online with the same result: http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian and http://http.debian.net/debian |
| 23:13.52 | rant | JohnDoe2: well its also curious it says /Packages |
| 23:14.08 | rant | JohnDoe2: http://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-armhf/ for example shows Packages.gz and Packages.xz |
| 23:14.49 | victorqueiroz | What is nc? |
| 23:14.51 | rant | idk if because it only says /Packages if its looking for a file by that name rather than a zipped one or not |
| 23:14.54 | JohnDoe2 | it seems to want to attach dists/stretch/Release to the URL |
| 23:14.56 | annadane | netcat |
| 23:14.57 | rant | victorqueiroz: netcat |
| 23:15.09 | victorqueiroz | Thanks. I'm testing termbin, seems promissing |
| 23:15.38 | rant | victorqueiroz: termbin was specifically designed for netcat.. and it displays output in plain text easy for people that may be on mobile, console only, ssh, etc to just fetch or view |
| 23:16.21 | victorqueiroz | this is huge |
| 23:16.31 | rant | victorqueiroz: you just gotta think about it that way.. people here are volunteering their time.. and may not be in an ideal environment to be messing with sites with popups, tls, javascript, cookies, etc and you may get less help just cause you didnt use a more friendly format |
| 23:17.07 | ozzloy | am i missing it, or does termbin have no syntax hiliting, even optionally? |
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| 23:17.12 | rant | I for one hate that site and wont go to it unless I'm doing absolutely nothing else at the time |
| 23:17.27 | rant | ozzloy: afaik it just displays in plain raw text |
| 23:17.32 | ozzloy | k |
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| 23:17.45 | victorqueiroz | rant: I understand, I'm sorry. Thanks for the tip |
| 23:18.05 | victorqueiroz | OMG: https://termbin.com/b7hd |
| 23:18.17 | victorqueiroz | "curl https://termbin.com/b7hd" |
| 23:18.23 | victorqueiroz | This is AWESOME |
| 23:18.49 | rant | yeah.. hence why you should use such methods.. we have such things setup for our convenience for things like termbin and paste.debian.net |
| 23:19.20 | victorqueiroz | ok, thanks |
| 23:19.39 | victorqueiroz | so what about this kernel, what would you guys suggest me to do? I tried some kernel flags but I still have it from time to time. |
| 23:20.07 | victorqueiroz | I mean, I'm assuming it's a kernel problem |
| 23:20.25 | victorqueiroz | https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/apw8im/ryzen_freezes_in_linux_even_if_linux_is_in_vm/ |
| 23:20.39 | rant | when you can't get output because it totally locks up all you can do is be more observant about whats going on at the time to try narrow down and reproduce it at will.. and then try experimenting with newer code |
| 23:21.54 | rant | I had an obscure issue I narrowed down to only happening when I chose "safely remove" on a usb drive after some caching had taken place.. using unmount didnt do it.. I believed it to be an obscure hw specific ehci (usb3 bug) |
| 23:22.10 | rant | when I switched from the x240 to T440 it stopped happening |
| 23:22.24 | rant | which is crazy really cause they use nearly identical hw.. |
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| 23:23.22 | rant | I used to when I ran into obscure hw issues go roll my own kernel with latest source until I found a solution.. but Linux 5 is so damn big right now I'd be hardpressed to make room to compile it :P |
| 23:23.50 | victorqueiroz | What's wrong with linux 5 |
| 23:24.20 | rant | idk never used it.. heh.. I tried to compile it on here but no matter how much of my 128GB SSD I could free up, I kept running out of disk space building it |
| 23:24.34 | rant | its huge.. |
| 23:25.00 | ozzloy | why is 5 so big? |
| 23:25.04 | ozzloy | more drivers? |
| 23:25.26 | rant | idk, I even spent hours trying to slim it down by tuning it as closely to just what I needed as possible |
| 23:25.50 | DemiGuru | was the SSD your primary or secondary disk? put it differently was it the same disk as the OS? |
| 23:25.53 | victorqueiroz | rant: I suppose you use Debian. Is it possible to install it on my computer? WOuld that mess my AMD GPU drivers? |
| 23:25.54 | rant | I'm not very familiar with the new debian targets.. last I really built kernels we still had kernel-package in debian.. now debian package creation is mainlined |
| 23:26.21 | rant | DemiGuru: its my only disk.. I wasnt that concerned to go try using an external hdd to build it |
| 23:27.04 | rant | I'm pretty sure I tried it with 12GB free, and even as much as like 20 or so GB free and still ran the disk out of space |
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| 23:28.01 | ozzloy | wait, 128GB wasn't enough? wtf? |
| 23:28.13 | ozzloy | that's fhuge |
| 23:28.19 | victorqueiroz | I'd like to be able to narrow down my kernel to only what I need. I've heard this really increase Linux's performance. |
| 23:28.21 | rant | 128GB is my entire disk size, not my available freespace on the partition |
| 23:28.36 | ozzloy | ah |
| 23:28.50 | victorqueiroz | Let's try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rlA_2QJMTs |
| 23:28.53 | victorqueiroz | *-* |
| 23:29.32 | rant | victorqueiroz: its not that difficult just time consuming.. menuconfig has lots of help in there and you just go through every option reading the help and cross ref your existing kern.log/dmesg lspci/lscpu/lsusb/lsblk and such system info |
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| 23:30.04 | rant | victorqueiroz: and if you're especially new to it, and get adventureous, you may have to try a couple times :P |
| 23:30.46 | victorqueiroz | rant: I've done it before, but I know it takes a LOT of time. specially when I was using Core 2 Duo |
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| 23:31.04 | rant | well I dont mean the compile.. you can go screw off while it does that.. I mean the configuration |
| 23:31.24 | rant | going through all the options in menuconfig is what takes the actual time and effort |
| 23:32.20 | victorqueiroz | I figured :( |
| 23:34.07 | rant | I recall trying one of the BSDs years ago, dont remember which one, but their kernel config asked maybe like 8 things.. and it was about as pointless as what color is your keyboard, do you like cheerios with or without milk? heh.. linux on the other hand has a TON of options, very detailed |
| 23:35.40 | victorqueiroz | I just read that on Linux, the block layer is the API that software uses to access FS |
| 23:35.49 | victorqueiroz | But in menuconfig here there's an option "Enable the block layer" |
| 23:35.58 | victorqueiroz | Why'd I want to disable it? |
| 23:36.25 | victorqueiroz | I think Linus spends too much time creating new options to menuconfig |
| 23:37.34 | victorqueiroz | Should be a script that scan your PC whole and just install everything that's connected to it (i.e. if there's a mouse of model X, it install it's drivers and other necessary configurations and that's it) |
| 23:39.32 | rant | yeah well I thought it'd be nice to have a tool to set the config to some automagic defaults based on probing too.. |
| 23:39.50 | rant | would make running through and verifying settings more quick and easy |
| 23:39.59 | victorqueiroz | I wonder why isn't there anything like this? |
| 23:40.13 | rant | but a lot of it is preference and often kernels arent built ON the machine they are made for |
| 23:40.29 | rant | people usually build them on whatever hw is the fastest |
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| 23:40.54 | victorqueiroz | hm: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/224887/how-to-script-make-menuconfig-to-automate-linux-kernel-build-configuration |
| 23:41.06 | victorqueiroz | "randconfig - New config with random answer to all options" |
| 23:41.09 | victorqueiroz | Who uses this? |
| 23:41.37 | EdePopede | rant: then a hw recognition tool would be the solution. collect the data, throw it into some obscure format like json and feed it to the configurator. |
| 23:41.37 | victorqueiroz | Interesting! "tinyconfig - Configure the tiniest possible kernel" |
| 23:41.45 | tvm | that's probably for testing random builds |
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| 23:43.55 | victorqueiroz | ok, I'm compiling the kernel with tinyconfig |
| 23:43.58 | victorqueiroz | let's see! |
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| 23:48.12 | victorqueiroz | Kernel is compiled |
| 23:48.15 | victorqueiroz | WTEFFE? |
| 23:48.25 | pihahiroth | ding, kernel's done |
| 23:48.42 | victorqueiroz | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MR0nYUrm/ |
| 23:48.53 | victorqueiroz | Sorry |
| 23:49.10 | victorqueiroz | irccloud has some kind of automatic pastebin. I don't know what that is |
| 23:49.20 | victorqueiroz | "Setup is 15452 bytes (padded to 15872 bytes). System is 397 kB" |
| 23:49.49 | victorqueiroz | I'm about to boot from my new kernel. |
| 23:49.51 | victorqueiroz | I'm scared |
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| 23:50.20 | ozzloy | victorqueiroz, u can do it! |
| 23:50.32 | ozzloy | you might have to try several times though |
| 23:50.46 | victorqueiroz | It's locked in "loading initial ramdisk" |
| 23:51.01 | victorqueiroz | Probably didn't compile the essentials to run on Debiab |
| 23:51.12 | pihahiroth | audience queue: awwwwwww |
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| 23:52.01 | ozzloy | keep going! try just a little bit harder, buster! |
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| 23:52.23 | ozzloy | (aside: they're so cute at that age) |
| 23:52.25 | victorqueiroz | I'm going to try to configure makemenu |
| 23:53.04 | victorqueiroz | Wow. The tiny config is crazy. It even disabled 64-bit kernel ð¦ |
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| 23:55.15 | ozzloy | good luck, i gtg |
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