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| 00:46.04 | galaxie | Does this sources.list file look right? https://pastebin.com/DH7MZP2L |
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| 00:47.08 | dvs | galaxie, If the mirror works, it looks fine to me. |
| 00:47.51 | galaxie | OK. I'm trying to replace the default Docker Debian Stretch apt with that. In their file, they have a stretch-updates line. What's that for and what's this mirror's equivalent if any? |
| 00:49.03 | dvs | !stretch sources.list |
| 00:49.03 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 00:49.50 | dvs | So you're looks for a line that ends with "debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free" |
| 00:50.06 | galaxie | So then what's steadfast's equivalent? The same as the first line but with stretch-updates instead? |
| 00:51.09 | dvs | no, stretch/updates is for security, stretch-updates is for frequently updated packages such as spam filters. |
| 00:52.15 | themill | and for the occasional non-security update, like firefox-esr's certificate oopsy |
| 00:53.27 | galaxie | As in, last line looks like this: deb https://mirror.steadfast.net/debian/ stretch-updates main |
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| 00:54.02 | dvs | yes, but your sources.list has "contrib non-free" on the end as well |
| 00:54.56 | galaxie | I realized I wouldn't need that, but yeah. |
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| 01:05.46 | wylieq | ln -s test |
| 01:06.04 | dvs | !test |
| 01:06.04 | dpkg | Test failed. |
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| 01:06.21 | wylieq | just checking |
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| 01:14.05 | galaxie | OK, so I replaced the sources.list file in Docker container with the above, and now it's perpetually hanging at 0%??! |
| 01:16.03 | galaxie | Unless it needs that apt-transport-https package first? That might be it. |
| 01:17.36 | themill | https for mirrors gains you basically nothing though |
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| 01:17.55 | galaxie | Well, I'll need to install it anyways... Node.js source. |
| 01:17.59 | themill | OK |
| 01:18.14 | themill | (the steadfast mirror also exists on http fwiw) |
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| 01:20.36 | dvs | didn't notice it was a https connection |
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| 02:10.44 | galaxie | Still can't figure out this Internet sharing thing. dmesg on the client keeps on saying the Ethernet link is up, then down, then up, then down and I can't figure out why. |
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| 02:23.44 | galaxie | Wait, does dnsmasq (NOT dnsmasq-base) conflict with Network Manager?? |
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| 03:18.56 | rant | I have an obscure issue on a recent install with the network many http/https connections are failing the first time around be it apt update, going to urls or clicking links in chromium, or whatever they always work when I do it a 2nd time but not the first time, they will just timeout |
| 03:19.13 | rant | no other machines on the network seem to be having this problem |
| 03:21.21 | rant | seems like any url I've opened before in any app will work.. like I went to kernel.org in chromium.. times out, went to it in firefox and it went through.. if I were to go to bbc in firefox it'd timeout then would work in cromium or such |
| 03:21.33 | rant | or if I just press enter again in the address bar it goes through |
| 03:21.40 | rant | or run apt update twice |
| 03:24.34 | oiaohm | rant: you are not running a local bind server and its gone stupid. |
| 03:30.12 | rant | no, its a fresh mate desktop install of buster on an HP All-in-one machine with an atheros wifi card that worked fine in the installer without non-free firmware |
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| 03:32.35 | milkt | maybe wifi card hardware issue? does issue persist when you install again? |
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| 03:34.03 | rant | I dont plan to install again I spent most the day setting this machine up and now got nearly 300gb of crap on it |
| 03:34.36 | rant | and if it has a hw issue it sure shows no signs of it, there are no errors in dmesg or such |
| 03:34.53 | dvs | uses gparted to reformat the drive |
| 03:35.06 | milkt | or how about trying with live iso and see whether same problem happen |
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| 03:35.32 | rant | I may try later with the wired connection and the live isnt a bad idea either |
| 03:36.24 | rant | if it is the wifi I may have something here I can swap it with.. but its one of those really tiny mini pcie cards wont fit any of the larger like 42mm ones |
| 03:37.02 | rant | its not new hw though i'd guess its at least 5 years old, and supported by open drivers |
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| 03:41.03 | milkt | does only http / https having issue? or all other protocols |
| 03:42.01 | rj1 | will i run into issues if i dist upgrade to buster now? |
| 03:42.54 | rant | you might |
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| 03:50.52 | karlpinc | rant: Do "whatever" (like reboot) so you can reliably reproduce your problem. Then figure out if is tcp/ip with ping/traceroute/whatever, or if it is dns. (Sounds like dns, but could be in the resolver I suppose.) Then you'll have a clue as to what to do next. |
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| 03:52.51 | karlpinc | rant: If it's neither tcp/ip nor dns and is only in https then maybe it's some strange certificate thing. (Like something is fetching revocation lists or....) Anyway without further diagnostics it's all speculation. |
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| 03:54.23 | karlpinc | rant: web proxy? Anyway, start at the bottom of the stack and work up. |
| 03:54.44 | rant | I haven't checked the proxy vars but I see no reason it should be using a proxy I never told it to |
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| 03:58.42 | maxrazer | For some reason the Realtek and Sound Blaster micrphone ports don't work, but the Steinberg Audio interface works just fine. It is a USB device, so probably better standard driver. However, we should be able to use the motherboard microphone port in linux I would hope. |
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| 04:00.38 | rant | sounds to me like you dont have the audio routed to the realtek or sound blaster ports |
| 04:00.54 | rant | install pavucontrol and use that to see what card is selected for the app you're using |
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| 04:18.11 | maxrazer | rant, I'm using the pulse audio volume control. |
| 04:20.17 | rant | are you sure? :P |
| 04:20.59 | rant | the pavucontrol has an applications tab and a pull down menu for what card each app is using |
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| 04:30.38 | maxrazer | rant, I use the configure tab and the input tab to set the devices. |
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| 04:31.32 | maxrazer | Rant, I try testing the microphone right in the pavucontrol and looking for the sound meter there and it shows nothing. |
| 04:31.53 | maxrazer | Except, with my audio interface device, but not the Sound Blaster or the Realtek. |
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| 04:41.04 | rant | I am telling you, as someone who regularly uses multiple sound cards.. you have to set it on a per app basis.. for output that is.. |
| 04:41.16 | rant | doesnt matter what is set on the output tab |
| 04:41.49 | rant | if I open an app I last used on analog, it doesnt matter if the selected output is HDMI.. it'll start that app playing to the analog |
| 04:42.07 | maxrazer | rant, I've ran into that problem too having to set the output. |
| 04:42.20 | maxrazer | rant, But, it is the microphone which isn't working. The output works. |
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| 04:59.54 | rant | idk.. if its not a laptop then it may have a built in mic and therefor have to select the right mic, if its not a laptop it may still have more than one mic like an internal/front external/back one and it also may have a channel muted or such.. check alsamixer |
| 05:00.48 | simbalion | Hi, I'm trying to upgrade from stretch to buster but something broke because of a package gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly from "dmo1", from way back when I was running jessie. I tried just removing that package but it doesn't seem to be able to with 'apt-get remove $package', can someone help? |
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| 05:15.52 | jelly | simbalion: what happens when you try to remove it? How far are you into the release upgrade process? Can you show the output in a pastebin? |
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| 05:18.47 | simbalion | jelly: nvm I found a solution on the web using dpkg --remove --force-remove-reinstreq $package |
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| 05:18.57 | simbalion | just had to get rid of a couple dependent packages too |
| 05:19.18 | simbalion | I might be okay now, I don't want to trouble anyone if I don't have to :) |
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| 06:46.56 | r15 | hi, I've added DDR4 ram, 3000MHz to my desktop, however clock speed is showing only 2133MHz in dmidecode -t memory output |
| 06:48.00 | r15 | i have two DDR4 Ram both as per box are of same speed 3000MHz, however from OS side i am seeing Configured Clock Speed: 2133 MHz |
| 06:48.41 | r15 | some kernel parameter or something with the Motherboard? |
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| 06:50.04 | r15 | kernel version i have is 4.9.0-8-amd64 |
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| 07:02.44 | tehnull | you have to adjust ram clock divider in the bios typically |
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| 07:12.00 | rant | r15: do you have other ram in there that is not 3ghz? |
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| 07:12.18 | rant | because lower speed ram will slow the bus down |
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| 07:18.05 | r15 | limitation of baseboard.. |
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| 08:55.00 | fiet | I just upgraded a catalyst 9300 from Denali to Everest and since then both telnet and SSH respond with connection refused. Config seems to be the same. Anyone have a clue about this? |
| 08:55.25 | fiet | Already zeroized and recreated ssh keys, but no luck there. |
| 08:56.25 | fiet | Sorry, wrong channel. Duhh |
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| 09:07.09 | fling | E: Package 'steam' has no installation candidate |
| 09:07.17 | fling | but I seed it on packages.debian.org |
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| 09:08.09 | diogenes_ | fling, try sudo apt update first. |
| 09:08.48 | fling | dpkg: steam |
| 09:08.48 | dpkg | Steam is a proprietary content delivery and management application for PC software with Linux support. Packaged in <non-free>; amd64 users are required to enable <multiarch> and install the steam:i386 package. For help with upstream issues, ask #steamlug on irc.freenode.net. http://wiki.debian.org/Steam |
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| 09:10.35 | fling | diogenes_: looks like needed to add i386 architecture first. |
| 09:10.36 | fling | thansk! |
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| 09:12.33 | jelly | fling: and non-free, too |
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| 09:53.17 | fling | jelly: sure. |
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| 10:20.38 | nonedead | I'm having a bit of a problem loading the nvidia-drivers on my laptop |
| 10:21.51 | nonedead | it refuses to load them |
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| 10:24.21 | netriber | nonedead: what's the error? |
| 10:24.45 | nonedead | nonedead@Pegasus:~$ nvidia-settings ERROR: NVIDIA driver is not loaded |
| 10:25.08 | nonedead | I followed the wiki and still no dice |
| 10:25.19 | magic_ninja | nonedead, can you link me up, give us an idea of what you have done. |
| 10:26.18 | netriber | if you modprobe nvidia and then do a lsmod | grep nvidia , what happens? |
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| 10:28.27 | nonedead | http://paste.debian.net/1082475/ |
| 10:28.36 | nonedead | That's the output |
| 10:28.39 | magic_ninja | sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install -y nvidia-detect && nvidia-detect |
| 10:29.09 | magic_ninja | Then let us know what it says at the very end. |
| 10:29.44 | nonedead | Detected NVIDIA GPUs: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GF108GLM [Quadro 1000M] [10de:0dfa] (rev a1) |
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| 10:30.30 | nonedead | It is recommended to install the nvidia-driver package. |
| 10:30.40 | nonedead | nvidia-driver/stretch-backports,now 418.56-2~bpo9+1 amd64 [installed] |
| 10:31.01 | magic_ninja | sudo apt-get install nvidia-driver --> then restart and do nvidia-detect |
| 10:31.22 | magic_ninja | Well, no need to do the second nvidia-detect |
| 10:31.57 | nonedead | nvidia-driver is already the newest version (418.56-2~bpo9+1). |
| 10:32.23 | magic_ninja | it seems you are on the newest drivers then. |
| 10:32.48 | magic_ninja | Well, nvidia-settings didn't work for you, so something isup. |
| 10:32.57 | magic_ninja | Sorry, I have to get ready for work,t hat is about all I can do at the moment. |
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| 10:34.40 | nonedead | Damn, ok |
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| 10:39.19 | nonedead | Anyone else have any ideas? |
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| 10:44.24 | nonedead | Should I do a full reinstall and start over? |
| 10:44.50 | anzipex | How to copy tons of small files with less time on external HDD or via ssh? |
| 10:45.23 | anzipex | Total size is about 21 GB |
| 10:45.53 | bhuddah | anzipex: depends on distance and line speed... |
| 10:46.44 | anzipex | I tried to make tar archive without compress, it takes too long. After 12 hours i get only 1/4 of progress |
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| 11:13.50 | magic_ninja | nonedead, if you JUST installed, no biggie. Otherwise, just apt-get remove --purge nvidia-driver and I think your card might need legacy drivers. |
| 11:14.34 | magic_ninja | nonedead, https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
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| 11:15.57 | magic_ninja | be advised that it seems that there is no supported method for on-the-fly switching |
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| 11:19.25 | diogenes_ | usually nouveau works just fine with a little bit of tweaking and DRI_PRIME=1 <application> |
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| 11:57.06 | jelly | nouveau consistently resulted in system hangs after 2-10 days of uptime on my budget nvidia cards |
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| 12:00.37 | diogenes_ | jelly, i mean when you run nouveau in optimus (intel+nvidia), there you normally run your system on intel and only when you need to run something graphic intensive, you run that particular app with nouveau, that's the best balance, you keep both, power save and prevent overheating. |
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| 12:05.15 | jelly | no experience with optimus here, only discrete cards |
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| 12:21.31 | tachikomas | hello debian community. Is there any support channel for FAI (fully automatic installation) on irc ? |
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| 12:21.48 | jelly | !fai |
| 12:21.49 | dpkg | Fully Automatic Installation (FAI) is an automated tool to install or deploy Debian (and other distributions) on a bunch of different hosts or a cluster. It is more flexible than tools like <kickstart> (Red Hat), autoyast and alice (SuSE) or jumpstart (Oracle Solaris). FAI can also be used for configuration management of a running system. http://fai-project.org/ #fai on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 12:22.06 | tachikomas | Thanks |
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| 13:01.08 | tsglove | Hello. n00b question: I installed a fresh release from debian.org I booted up, logged in with my user. Then switched over to root. Did #apt-get update |
| 13:01.24 | tsglove | Got an error about DVD. So went #vi /etc/apt/source.list and commented out the DVD line |
| 13:01.40 | greycat | !stretch sources.list |
| 13:01.40 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 13:01.52 | tsglove | Then ran #apt-get update Yet when I try #apt-get install sudo I get Package sudo has no installation candidate |
| 13:02.16 | greycat | make sure you add some http sources. if you installed without a network, you might have been left with ONLY the dvd lines. |
| 13:02.35 | tsglove | Ahhhhh I see. Ok ok. On my way to check that out!! |
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| 13:03.13 | tsglove | That's most probably it! I only have to http lines, and both for security.debian.org |
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| 13:05.33 | tsglove | greycat, that was it! sudo is installed now. Learned something new today about Debian =) |
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| 13:13.20 | g0zzy | Firewall forwards SSH only. Is there any way of running VNC server with some kind of tunneling to avoid firewall config? |
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| 13:14.43 | inch | "xtightvncviewer -via some.machine another.machine" sets up an ssh tunnel and connects to vnc throught it. |
| 13:15.46 | inch | or "xtightvncviewer -via some.machine localhost" |
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| 13:17.55 | g0zzy | The server is the issue though. It needs to get my (client) connection even though it's behind a firewall. Will that do it even though that's invoked from the client? |
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| 13:20.00 | inch | If I understood the question correctly, then yes. If you can ssh to the server, then you can vnc to the server with xtightvncviewer -via server localhost |
| 13:20.01 | g0zzy | You sir, are a genius! |
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| 13:21.00 | g0zzy | finds that surprising that the server is not the one being configured |
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| 13:57.29 | g0zzy | inch: Thanks |
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| 14:40.27 | Debvoltz | Kernel is hanging indefinitley without any data printing to screen on shutdown or reboot. It stops at [OK] Stopped target User and Group Name Lookups need help please. |
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| 14:43.59 | colo-work | Debvoltz, magic sysrq -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key#Commands |
| 14:45.44 | Debvoltz | colo-work: thanks will check out |
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| 14:49.37 | Dazax | Hello |
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| 14:50.39 | Dazax | What's meaning of [Security] here : https://packages.debian.org/fr/source/stretch/tomcat8 ? |
| 14:50.56 | greycat | It means the version you're seeing comes from security.debian.org not from the main repository. |
| 14:51.09 | Dazax | Okay, thx ;) |
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| 15:14.26 | tobiasBora | Hello, |
| 15:14.32 | KR4XX77 | hi |
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| 15:27.04 | tobiasBora | Is it possible to change for a given bash instance to change the value given by isatty in the processes that are launch from there? |
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| 15:42.47 | nifker | when can we expect libc6 v2.29 in sid or in buster? |
| 15:43.20 | jelly | nifker: probably after buster is released |
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| 15:45.06 | jelly | one does not merely switch glibc version during the freeze |
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| 15:47.13 | nifker | can I build a debian package from a non-debian system? |
| 15:47.31 | nifker | oh wait never mind |
| 15:47.53 | BCMM | nifker: do you mean e.g. build a debian source package for use on your ubuntu/mint machine? or building packages for debian, on non-debian? |
| 15:48.44 | nifker | BCMM: the second - but I will just compile statically |
| 15:48.46 | BCMM | jelly: vaguely related; where can i read more about what happens to Sid during freezes? |
| 15:49.52 | BCMM | i had originally sort of assumed that Sid was just in perpetual change, and stable/testing branches lagged behind depending on their release status. i know this is wrong, but i'm not exactly sure how. |
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| 15:50.49 | BCMM | nifker: for the second, option, i'd just use a chroot |
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| 15:51.30 | debvoltz | hello is there anyway to check any system logs to see whats causing my kernel to hang on shutdown |
| 15:51.34 | BCMM | nifker: you basically want to have library version corresponding to the libraries used in the release of debian you're targeting, and chroot is probably the easiest way to make that happen on another distro] |
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| 15:52.00 | BCMM | nifker: a debian chroot can be surprisingly small, since you don't need *any* software beyond what's needed to build packages |
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| 15:53.29 | themill | BCMM: to permit updates to testing to be made during the freeze, sid needs to stop changing too. It gets a bit slushy. If that doesn't happen, it's too hard to get bugfixes into testing. |
| 15:53.54 | themill | (well, they can always go in via testing-proposed-updates with a big hammer, but they get little testing if that happens) |
| 15:54.11 | jelly | !slushy |
| 15:54.11 | dpkg | When a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>. |
| 15:54.22 | BCMM | themill: but *why* does unstable need to stop changing to allow development on testing? is there a technical reason, or it just a matter of manpower being devoted to testing instead? |
| 15:54.42 | themill | what I just said |
| 15:54.47 | dax | so that bugfixes required for testing to be released can be staged in sid without unrelated crap going in |
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| 15:55.18 | jelly | BCMM: the process would need to change significantly to allow for a second way maintainers would upload packages to (rather than sid, where they upload by default) |
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| 15:55.45 | themill | t-p-u exists but that second way is a bad idea |
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| 15:56.35 | jelly | I suppose it also kind of provides an incentive to get the frozen branch unbugged enough so it gets released and then go back to uploads of Shiny New Shit |
| 15:56.57 | BCMM | jelly: so it's basically because its assumed that changes to sid are going to be relatively quickly propagated to testing? |
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| 15:57.57 | jelly | that's my understanding |
| 15:58.05 | BCMM | thanks |
| 15:58.19 | jelly | is not a DD or a DM |
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| 15:58.41 | themill | it's more about entanglement of changes as dax said |
| 15:59.12 | themill | all packages are built in sid but land in testing and testing is still supposed to be self-hosting |
| 15:59.30 | BCMM | i've been looking at it wrong, i think. modelling sid as "mainline" and releases as "branches" of it. |
| 15:59.53 | themill | that's more what testing is |
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| 16:01.30 | themill | If a new libc6 appeared in sid, we'd suddenly get binary packages with "Depends: libc6 (>> 2.29-1)" appearing in sid. They couldn't then land in buster at all. |
| 16:02.52 | jelly | I probably would not mind self-hosting req. being broken or relaxed to allow, say, golang binaries that work on stable but only build on sid |
| 16:03.16 | jelly | or rust (*cough*firefox*cough) |
| 16:03.26 | jhutchins_wk | This has been one of the longer testing freezes I've seen, and the lag has raised some new issues. |
| 16:03.38 | themill | longer? nope. |
| 16:03.43 | BCMM | themill: OH, now i get it. (i mean, why development in sid would obstruct staging of changes there) |
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| 16:04.16 | jelly | was there a "testing" during etch -> lenny? |
| 16:04.21 | jelly | does not remember |
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| 16:04.55 | jelly | does remember the fuckin horribly old kernels and driver support and and etchnhalf |
| 16:05.14 | BCMM | jelly: i've sort of got the same sentiment (about rust and so on), because hey, sns. but it *would* kind of suck if a Stable user can't trivially patch and rebuild a packages that doesn't work to their liking |
| 16:05.29 | BCMM | ^ a package |
| 16:05.47 | jelly | I'll probably end up having a local or $work amd64 repo for misc. golang stuff |
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| 16:09.36 | BCMM | what's the rule on backports and self-hosting? |
| 16:09.48 | themill | it has to be |
| 16:10.13 | jelly | not sure for the sloppy ones? |
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| 16:10.37 | themill | yeah, it still has to be -- if it isn't, the package doesn't build |
| 16:10.41 | jelly | but normal backports have to be buildable using just stable+stable-backports |
| 16:10.58 | BCMM | themill: can a backports package build-dep on other backports packages? |
| 16:11.06 | jelly | yes. |
| 16:11.28 | jelly | so if you need to, you backport build-deps first. |
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| 16:11.51 | BCMM | so why wasn't that done for, say, rust stuff and firefox? was it a manpower thing or a policy thing? |
| 16:12.03 | themill | it was done for firefox |
| 16:12.30 | BCMM | oh right, i forgot that the old esr died... |
| 16:12.37 | BCMM | (i use sid, day-to-day) |
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| 16:13.15 | BCMM | it was updated *right* when the old ESR went out of support, right? was some sort of exception made? |
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| 16:14.53 | jelly | it took a couple months between 60esr by upstream and 60esr binaries in debian. |
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| 16:16.43 | BCMM | didn't it update on, like, the actual week that 56esr went EOl, though? |
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| 16:17.44 | BCMM | ^52esr |
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| 16:18.31 | BCMM | was it kept back on purpose, or was it "just lucky" that it was ready in time? |
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| 16:20.03 | themill | a combination of waiting for bugs to get shaken out of the new ESR, time to get the rustc chain sorted and some testing iirc |
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| 16:22.23 | jelly | and it's still not built for all the architectures afaik, and debian helped make support for quite a bit of the less usual ones |
| 16:22.50 | jelly | support for rust, that is |
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| 16:24.15 | jelly | it's not too happy a situation that we're left with a total of two open source browsers |
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| 16:24.43 | *** mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill |
| 16:25.01 | greycat | it's better than the 1990s and early 2000s when all we had was Netscape, and Netscape crashed all the time |
| 16:25.36 | jelly | well we had Mosaic too /me hides |
| 16:26.12 | jelly | and Opera was closed but usable |
| 16:26.56 | greycat | Opera 4.0, released in 2000,[15] included a new cross-platform core that facilitated the creation of editions of Opera for multiple operating systems and platforms.[17] |
| 16:27.10 | greycat | so yeah, for part of that time period, we did have Opera |
| 16:27.59 | jelly | I only switched back to Firefox around or after 2010 as it got decent vertical tab and session plugins |
| 16:28.34 | jelly | and Opera increasingly less useful with "modern" javascript sites |
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| 16:34.27 | jelly | looks at creation time of ~/.opera and fails |
| 16:34.58 | greycat | your file system had "birth time" back then?! |
| 16:34.59 | jelly | !crtime |
| 16:34.59 | dpkg | Some filesystems may store creation time after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g., to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk '{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs -R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep ^crtime |
| 16:35.21 | jelly | ext4 has had it since, probably, forever (2000) |
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| 16:35.34 | greycat | ext4 didn't exist in 2000 |
| 16:35.40 | greycat | I think it was around 2006 |
| 16:35.44 | jelly | oh right, that was ext3 |
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| 16:36.45 | aloo_shu | that's a bit like saying "and the 'free' repository increasingly less useful"; but people are still advocating 'free', and rightly so; so maybe the battle for simple web standards is needing more energy |
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| 16:37.14 | jelly | aloo_shu: what standards? DRM is in www standards. |
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| 16:38.22 | greycat | stat(1) in stretch has %W/%w time of file birth |
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| 16:38.38 | jelly | so userspace may have caught up |
| 16:38.47 | greycat | ... hell, so does wheezy |
| 16:39.09 | jelly | I'm pretty sure that thing did not work in wheezy |
| 16:39.18 | jelly | or I did not have ext4 |
| 16:39.36 | jelly | f=~/.opera; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk '{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs -R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep ^crtime |
| 16:39.36 | jelly | crtime: 0x4fd34cc3:1586bc08 -- Sat Jun 9 15:16:51 2012 |
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| 16:40.33 | greycat | yeah, stat -c %w is not working for me even in buster. it just gives - for everything. |
| 16:40.34 | jelly | [18:39] ~ => stat .opera | grep Birth -> still just a " Birth: -" in stretch |
| 16:40.52 | jelly | perhaps it works on kFreeBSD |
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| 16:42.22 | greycat | bug #793831 |
| 16:42.24 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/793831 in coreutils (open): «coreutils: stat does not report file birth timestamp, even when available»; severity: minor; opened: 2015-07-27; last modified: 2015-07-28. |
| 16:42.28 | jelly | dpkg, birthtime is <reply>see crtime |
| 16:42.30 | dpkg | okay, jelly |
| 16:43.38 | jelly | oh good heavens GNU uses debbugs |
| 16:44.02 | jelly | thought I clicked the wrong thing for a second |
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| 16:44.32 | aloo_shu | would need some thought to specify *what* exactly - workable definitions of the free/non-free distinction haven't come overnight neither, I suppose. Personally, I'd be happy about a standard that allows web pages to do what they please as long as they're providing a plain html3 interface, too |
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| 16:46.14 | aloo_shu | lynx have been campaigning in such a direction, haven't they? |
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| 16:50.20 | jelly | twitter.com posts have working non-js web page but they force you to always answer an annoying question |
| 16:51.09 | jelly | so it can be done, but it makes tracking a lot harder and how are you going to get ad $$$ without tracking?!??! |
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| 16:54.36 | jelly | greycat: apparently statx() is in 4.11 (2017), so look out for possibly maybe working stat(1) in bullseye, if some reopens that glibc bug (closed as "notabug" in 2018) |
| 16:55.24 | jelly | sorry, not glibc bug, coreutils bug |
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| 16:58.18 | greycat | interesting |
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| 17:04.01 | jelly | VERSIONS |
| 17:04.01 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:05.05 | jelly | so kind of NARROWLY missed in buster? |
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| 17:05.36 | zenpac | For some reason, installing nodejs on 9.9 doesn't seem to include npm. any idea on how to get it? |
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| 17:06.38 | jmcnaught | ,v npm |
| 17:06.39 | judd | Package: npm on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4.21+ds-2; stretch-backports: 5.8.0+ds6-2~bpo9+1; buster: 5.8.0+ds6-4; sid: 5.8.0+ds6-4 |
| 17:06.48 | jmcnaught | zenpac: install it separately |
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| 17:07.52 | greycat | looks at dpkg -l libc6 in buster |
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| 17:13.29 | HelloShitty | Hi |
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| 17:13.35 | HelloShitty | Anyone aroun uses mcabber? |
| 17:13.43 | HelloShitty | s/aroun/around |
| 17:13.54 | annadane | !anyone |
| 17:13.54 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
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| 17:14.33 | jelly | dpkg, tell zenpac about stretch-backports |
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| 17:18.26 | skweek | hey folks, how is everyone? I've got some stuff to chat about regarding installing clangd, over all to do autocompletion, so I downloaded LLVM and compiled it but it filled up my root and I couldn't boot, so I was thinking about installing it into home if anyone's familiar with this i'm on debian and I worry about installing packages like this |
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| 17:20.46 | HelloShitty | annadane: I'm not asking if anyone can help me... I'm asking exactly if anyone uses mcabber |
| 17:20.54 | HelloShitty | it's different |
| 17:21.02 | HelloShitty | but I appreciate the help |
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| 17:22.29 | jmcnaught | ,popcon mcabber |
| 17:22.30 | judd | Popcon data for mcabber: inst: 305, vote: 54, old: 242, recent: 9, nofiles: 0 |
| 17:23.02 | jmcnaught | HelloShitty: you can "/msg judd popcon <package>" for its popularity contest numbers, but this channel isn't really a place to conduct polls |
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| 17:24.10 | HelloShitty | I'm not intereste in opularity contests |
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| 17:24.24 | HelloShitty | I need to fix some problems with my client |
| 17:24.31 | annadane | then ask your real question |
| 17:24.37 | skittle | hi how to install the gcc??? |
| 17:24.38 | annadane | that's why i posted !anyone |
| 17:24.40 | skittle | I have error!! |
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| 17:25.43 | jmcnaught | skweek: Debian has packages (that you install with apt-get) for LLVM and clang, did you try using those? |
| 17:26.22 | jmcnaught | skittle: to start, show the command you used and the complete output including the error on https://paste.debian.net/ and tell us the URL |
| 17:26.30 | behanw | jmcnaught: clangd <-- (notice the d) |
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| 17:26.52 | skittle | I type SUDO APT GET INSTALL GCC but it says error! |
| 17:26.56 | behanw | jmcnaught: Not the same thing as the packaged compilers. |
| 17:26.58 | LtL | skittle: install build-essential .. that should do it. |
| 17:27.37 | skweek | jmcnaught, for the YCM install instructions by checking https://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/llvm the required version in the repo is 7~ which YCM requires 8.0.0 |
| 17:28.22 | jmcnaught | skweek: behanw: there's a clangd in clang-tools-6.0 |
| 17:28.40 | behanw | jmcnaught: I stand corrected. |
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| 17:29.14 | greycat | skittle: unix commands are case-sensitive, and hyphens and spaces are NOT interchangeable. |
| 17:29.27 | greycat | "APT GET" and "apt-get" are very different |
| 17:29.53 | HelloShitty | And what is the point of me stating my problem if there is a real chance of anyone using mcabber? |
| 17:30.15 | HelloShitty | I think it's reasonable to ask who's using an if anyone replies, I state my problem |
| 17:30.28 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 17:30.31 | skittle | but I cannot type a '-' in my terminal |
| 17:31.11 | LtL | skittle: apt install build-essentia |
| 17:31.11 | greycat | skittle: then you're pretty fucked. You could use $'\055' in bash, but it is going to be really painful for you. |
| 17:31.20 | annadane | HelloShitty, because if you wait for someone to answer 'yes' then you'll never ask your question. just ask your question, and someone may know, it's how tech support questions work here |
| 17:31.28 | LtL | *essential |
| 17:31.31 | jmcnaught | skweek: oh you need a newer version than is available in package form? What is YCM? Are you on unstable? |
| 17:31.46 | skittle | ok but how to I fix so '-' |
| 17:31.49 | annadane | if nobody here knows try the mailing lists, or forums, or the subreddit, or... |
| 17:32.06 | greycat | skittle: sudo apt$'\055'get build$'\055'essential |
| 17:32.06 | skweek | http://releases.llvm.org/8.0.0/docs/CMake.html stable for https://github.com/Valloric/YouCompleteMe#full-installation-guide |
| 17:32.07 | skittle | it does not let me input |
| 17:32.12 | HelloShitty | annadane: that's an excuse so valid as the one I gave... Anyway when I start mcabber, it says that my config file has wrong permissions |
| 17:32.17 | HelloShitty | an it says it will fix them |
| 17:32.28 | greycat | skittle: what is the actual problem you're here to solve? |
| 17:32.33 | HelloShitty | but then, the same error shows up again everytime I start mcabber |
| 17:32.36 | rant | HelloShitty: You can join the MCabber MUC conference room if you have some suggestions or questions: mcabber@conf.lilotux.net. |
| 17:32.49 | HelloShitty | documentation is very small |
| 17:32.55 | HelloShitty | I can't connect there too |
| 17:33.01 | skittle | well I needed to insall gcc but now I need to figure out why I can not type '-' |
| 17:33.15 | skittle | its just one rabbit hole of problems on debian |
| 17:33.22 | greycat | are you using a keyboard with a - key? are you using the correct keymapping for your keyboard? |
| 17:33.36 | skittle | yes but it does not input into terminal commands |
| 17:34.11 | greycat | are any OTHER punctuation keys malfunctioning? is the keyboard known to work? have you tried swapping out the keyboard? |
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| 17:34.37 | skittle | no every other key works an this keyboard works fine if I am not typig into the prompt |
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| 17:34.49 | skittle | its only in the prompt I cannot type '-' |
| 17:34.58 | greycat | so - works in, like, a web browser url bar, but not in bash? that sounds like a readline misconfiguration. |
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| 17:35.16 | skittle | yes it works everywhere else |
| 17:35.19 | greycat | do you have a ~/.inputrc file? |
| 17:36.01 | skittle | yes |
| 17:36.20 | greycat | try renaming it to something else temporarily, then open a new terminal and see if that helped |
| 17:36.35 | skittle | oh yes now it works |
| 17:36.44 | greycat | so something in that .inputrc file is causing the issue |
| 17:36.56 | skittle | is it the 6 lines of '-' |
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| 17:38.14 | skittle | yes it is fixed now |
| 17:38.28 | skittle | thank you greycat you must have a big brain to be so helpful |
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| 17:40.51 | no_gravity | What is a simple way to map one key to another via xmodmap? |
| 17:41.07 | skweek | I should have downloaded the binaries jmcnaught |
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| 18:00.28 | no_gravity | It seems there is no way to remap a key sequence on Linux. That's bunky. |
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| 18:28.57 | Lady_Aleena | Hello. Is there a apache for Debian channel somewhere? |
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| 18:29.05 | HelloShitty | When I try to connect to mcabber@lilotux.net, I get an error message saying: "There was an error while connecting" |
| 18:29.29 | greycat | This one. Or the #debian on OFTC. I doubt there's anything more specialized. |
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| 18:30.35 | annadane | debian wiki does list a #debian-apache |
| 18:31.19 | greycat | ... on OFTC. With 6 people. OK, I guess that does exist, but. |
| 18:31.24 | annadane | "discussions about the packaging of Apache httpd/apr/apr-util in Debian" and has 6 users... so yeah... probably what greycat said |
| 18:31.25 | annadane | yeah |
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| 18:31.34 | somiaj | though that might be more for how to package things for debian vs help with apache on debian. #debian or #httpd is probably the places I would ask support questions about apache/debian. |
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| 18:32.10 | greycat | in past years, #httpd has been known for hostility to Debian users because Debian's apache is so heavily modified from upstream |
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| 18:33.43 | Lady_Aleena | Okay. I will remember that when I am done with this other thing I am doing. |
| 18:34.04 | somiaj | might depend a lot on what is being asked. But apache is common enough many in #debian can help, I would only direct to #httpd if it was something more specific than the active people here can't answer. |
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| 18:36.18 | Lady_Aleena | I have "SetEnv PERL5LIB /home/me/perl5/lib/perl5". How do I add another directory? |
| 18:37.00 | Lady_Aleena | Another SetEnv or a delimited between directory locations? |
| 18:37.13 | Lady_Aleena | s/delimited/delimiter/; |
| 18:37.18 | somiaj | This sounds more like a perl question (not apache) since PERL5LIB is a shell variable that perl uses |
| 18:37.35 | somiaj | I don't know the syntax for listing various directories, but perl help would be where I would look |
| 18:37.41 | Lady_Aleena | somiaj, it is in my apache2.conf |
| 18:37.45 | greycat | perlrun(1) says PERL5LIB is colon separated |
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| 18:37.51 | greycat | so, use colons |
| 18:37.58 | Lady_Aleena | Thank you greycat. |
| 18:38.12 | somiaj | sure, apache2.conf can set various enviorment variables used by other programs, which is what SetEnv is doing (but this isn't a setting specific to apache) |
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| 18:44.35 | rant | can I track updates on an experimental kernel? if so would pinning be required? |
| 18:45.13 | somiaj | rant: Yes and Yes. |
| 18:45.26 | greycat | kernels are kinda unique; they don't have many dependencies, so mixing and matching them across releases usually works |
| 18:45.40 | greycat | ,kernels |
| 18:45.41 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-3); buster: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-3); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (4.19.28-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u2~deb8u1); wheezy- |
| 18:45.42 | judd | backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1) |
| 18:45.53 | somiaj | In general kernels depends aren't tied to a specific debian version/libaries, so there sin't much to worry about. Just grab the kernel and firmware from experiemntial if needed. But do pin to ensure that is all you get. |
| 18:46.01 | greycat | that experimental one has been showing 5.0.0 for quite a while now |
| 18:46.09 | somiaj | (also might need package specific pinning if you want apt upgrade to pull in new kernels) |
| 18:46.16 | rant | I may be doing this for this machine if this kernel fixes this obscure issue.. I never done experimental before and normally if I cant get a newer debian kernel I just build one.. but building 5.0 isnt quite as easy as it was building 2.6 or such.. its HUGE |
| 18:46.38 | somiaj | My advise is wait for busters release, then debian will get new kernels, if you can manage to wait this out a few months. |
| 18:47.26 | rant | yeah well I messed up thinking it was ok to install buster on this machine since I'm using it and I installed it for my cousin and neither of us have issues |
| 18:47.47 | greycat | If this is just a one-off "try this and see if it helps", I would not use apt-get or pinning or any of that other stuff. Just download the kernel from experimental, one time. |
| 18:47.50 | greycat | By hand. |
| 18:48.07 | greycat | *IF* it actually helps you, then maybe set up the infrastructure. |
| 18:48.09 | rant | but this machine however is having some obscure wifi issue where it mostly works but often http/https connections dont work unless you do them repeatedly.. i.e. apt update multiple times, click an link multiple times.. etc |
| 18:48.32 | rant | and I already got this machine all set up with like 300gb or so data on it before I realized this was an issue |
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| 18:49.08 | somiaj | what wifi card? And I am assuming you have the firmware? |
| 18:49.12 | rant | changing the kernel or the wifi card or trying to run a wire to it for now are simpler solutions |
| 18:49.27 | rant | somiaj: it worked in the vanilla installer, doesnt seem to require extra firmware.. |
| 18:49.53 | rant | oddly enough the wifi worked in installer, the ethernet didnt :P |
| 18:50.01 | somiaj | maybe the issue just didn't present itself during the install too. But I would first double check the chipset/module being used. And maybe a firmware update is all you need (vs a whole kernel) |
| 18:50.20 | somiaj | Yea, there are some wifi cards that don't need firmware (rare) and some wired cards that do (also rare) |
| 18:50.23 | rant | yeah if it has firmware its opensource mainstream firmware |
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| 18:50.35 | rant | but there is no mention of firmware loading in dmesg |
| 18:50.56 | somiaj | rant: most likey the firmware is on the card, vs a separate file. But what chipset. Is it the Atheos 5k or whatever (most common one I know that doens't need firmware) |
| 18:51.12 | somiaj | also sometimes cards can work without firmware, but adding firmware will improve their preofrmace. |
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| 18:52.51 | rant | yeah I thought of that and had installed firmware-atheros just ot be sure but didnt seem to show it loading any firmware |
| 18:53.17 | somiaj | yea, the atheros cards that don't require firmware, just have it on the chip. |
| 18:54.01 | rant | its a Qualcom Atheros AR5485 168c:0032 uses ath9k |
| 18:54.05 | somiaj | Is it only https://, maybe keep an eye on the card, it could having trouble keeping assoicated with the AP, hence multiple clicks until it works. |
| 18:54.08 | rant | tiny lil minipci thing in this hp all-in-one |
| 18:55.12 | rant | idk I first noticed it on adding the leap mirror for bitmask, had to update twice, then it wouldnt hit kernel.org in the browser until I hit enter twice in address bar, then I was having trouble getting things like .Net through crossover from their sites.. |
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| 18:55.29 | rant | was just seeming like most URLs were timing out but if I hit them multiple times they'd load fine |
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| 18:55.52 | rant | once I installed the realtek firmware I tried ethernet and that works fine |
| 18:56.13 | rant | I found it odd the ethernet needed firmware and the wifi didnt.. that was a first for me :P |
| 18:56.16 | somiaj | I would keep an eye on the wirless card, maybe it is having trouble keeping assoicated with the AP and keeps droping/reassoiating. |
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| 18:56.28 | rant | na there were no errors at all in dmesg about the wifi |
| 18:56.28 | somiaj | Yea, rare hardware for sure. |
| 18:56.43 | somiaj | though that r8196 or whatever that needs firmware is quite common in many devices. |
| 18:56.49 | somiaj | (for wired) |
| 18:57.03 | maxzor | Hello, what is the difference of quote expansion between interactive bash and script bash? sed "$i"'s/"source_ip": "/"source_ip": "'"$i"'"/g' /home/maxzor/adameo/curl_api/merchant_order_id.json works in interactive, not in a script |
| 18:57.09 | rant | its 10ec:8168 |
| 18:57.16 | rant | i.e. RTL8168 |
| 18:57.19 | greycat | There is no difference in quoting between scripts and interactive shells. |
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| 18:57.59 | greycat | the only thing that will change the results of that command is what's in $i |
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| 18:58.52 | maxzor | greycat thanks! |
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| 19:00.56 | rant | yeah idk the experimental kernel didnt seem to change this issue.. I tried nfl.com it hung, hit enter again, loaded right up.. tried bbc.co.uk same thing.. hanging, 2nd time it loaded right up |
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| 19:01.10 | rant | and if it were some tls/ssl package or something it'd be doing it on ethernet too |
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| 19:01.23 | rant | its the strangest thing I ever seen |
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| 19:02.02 | somiaj | check pings, are you getting lots of packet drops? |
| 19:03.29 | rant | http://paste.debian.net/1082528 |
| 19:03.45 | rant | I'd tried ping and ping6 to google.com last night, was getting around 25ms, no drops |
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| 19:04.50 | rant | hmm.. |
| 19:05.50 | rant | this is curious.. after first ping reply I had "From DD-WRT (10.0.0.3): icmp_seq=2 Redirect Host(New nexthop: 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1))" |
| 19:06.52 | rant | we switched xfinity gateways recently and that is 10.0.0.1 but it only had two ethernet ports and I needed at least 3, so I took my old linksys wrt54g with dd-wrt and turned off all the routing and wireless features and tried to use it as a hub |
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| 19:07.07 | rant | idk how the hell that would come up on a wifi client though if it were correct |
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| 19:07.44 | somiaj | check what ap the card is assoiating itself with. |
| 19:08.08 | somiaj | Could you just remove that DD-WRT for the time being and see if that fixes all your problems? If so, your card is trying to assoicate with that AP too. |
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| 19:08.39 | rant | yeah well I NEED the 3 wired clients.. and I dont really have another solution.. |
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| 19:09.06 | rant | checks the bssid |
| 19:10.14 | somiaj | I was just thinking of temporarly removing it to debug the issue (if you can dc those 3 wired clients for this) |
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| 19:10.40 | rant | yeah idk, the bssid is same as on this machine.. both running buster.. one has issues the other doesnt |
| 19:10.58 | rant | this machine has an intel hybrid wifi/bt thing that requires firmware |
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| 19:12.01 | rant | I think I need to reset that router and try again.. something might be configured wrong.. it said the wireless radio was off |
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| 19:14.50 | rant | hmm.. that makes no sense to me.. when I pulled the power plug on that linksys router, the HP lost connectivity, this thinkpad didnt |
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| 19:15.03 | rant | they both are associated with the same bssid according to iwconfig |
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| 19:15.32 | rant | needs to find a damn hub/switch |
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| 19:22.13 | rant | ah.. seems I disabled all the nat and wireless but it still had a dhcp server running on the same subnet |
| 19:22.26 | rant | so I had two dhcp servers on the network :-/ |
| 19:24.05 | somiaj | and this one machine just wanted the one to cause your life trouble. |
| 19:24.20 | somiaj | It should have read your mind to know which one to use. |
| 19:24.50 | rant | you'd think if thw wifi was off, it'd be one of the two machines PLUGGED IN to the linksys that was getting dhcp from wrong place |
| 19:25.16 | somiaj | that woul have been to easy to figure out. That router wanted to make you work. |
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| 19:34.31 | ChunkzZ | how do I get openvpn working on debian 9? ERROR: Cannot open TUN/TAP dev /dev/net/tun: No such file or directory (errno=2) |
| 19:35.27 | jelly | ChunkzZ: is this a container or a full VM or a physical machine? |
| 19:35.47 | jelly | ChunkzZ: if it's a container ask your provider to enable TUN support. |
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| 19:36.14 | ChunkzZ | jelly, physical machine... |
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| 19:37.07 | jelly | ChunkzZ: if you have control of your kernel (ie on a full VM or physical machine), see if tun kernel module exists and see if loading it manually helps |
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| 19:37.35 | ChunkzZ | jelly, what command to run? |
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| 19:37.49 | ChunkzZ | tun kernel? |
| 19:38.08 | greycat | ChunkzZ: you could start with /sbin/modinfo tun |
| 19:38.20 | jelly | ChunkzZ: "modinfo tun" to check if a module exists, "lsmod" to see if it's already loaded, "modprobe tun" to manually load it. |
| 19:38.34 | CH13F | are you guys hackers |
| 19:38.41 | ChunkzZ | modinfo: ERROR: Module tun not found. |
| 19:38.43 | jelly | worse |
| 19:38.52 | jelly | we're voluntary TECH SUPPORT |
| 19:38.58 | greycat | ChunkzZ: is this a non-Debian kernel? |
| 19:39.06 | ChunkzZ | greycat, yes. |
| 19:39.11 | ChunkzZ | debian on 4.4 |
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| 19:39.28 | jelly | ChunkzZ: then add tun support to your custom kernel. |
| 19:39.39 | ChunkzZ | how? |
| 19:39.41 | ChunkzZ | lol |
| 19:39.42 | ChunkzZ | 4.4.171 |
| 19:39.50 | jelly | how did you build the kernel? |
| 19:39.51 | greycat | you built it, yes? rebuild it. |
| 19:39.57 | ChunkzZ | no... |
| 19:40.04 | greycat | (it's a trick question, of course .. clearly he did not build it) |
| 19:40.15 | jelly | ChunkzZ: or ask the person who built it, if it was not you |
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| 19:41.15 | jelly | ChunkzZ: what kind of physical machine is this, brand, model? |
| 19:41.31 | greycat | I'm guessing some kind of ARM-based device |
| 19:42.33 | jelly | ChunkzZ: if it's a non-rooted android device then you basically do not have control of your kernel, and you have to run VPN from the android layer |
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| 20:08.10 | AK | do I know the difference between unstable and testing? |
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| 20:09.33 | roycroft | hello, folks |
| 20:09.53 | roycroft | i need to be able to decrypt openbsd-generated passwords on a debian stretch machine |
| 20:10.09 | roycroft | the openbsd passwords use blowfish (2a) encryption |
| 20:10.37 | roycroft | i have installed mcrypt and bcrypt, and what i've read about pam indicates that pam_unix.so should be able to decrypt them |
| 20:10.46 | roycroft | i have no need to encrypt using blowfish - sha512 is fine |
| 20:10.55 | roycroft | it's not working though, which is why i came here |
| 20:11.11 | roycroft | does anyone know what else i need to do in order to make this work? |
| 20:11.50 | roycroft | i am migrating some mail servers from openbsd to debian, and need to import several thousand passwords |
| 20:11.50 | somiaj | decrypt passwords? I didn't think passwords were stored this way. I thought you encrypted them, and then compare the encrypted strings. |
| 20:12.08 | roycroft | having all users change their passwords is not an option |
| 20:12.10 | somiaj | well not stored, but verified this way. |
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| 20:12.57 | roycroft | that depends on the crypto algorithm |
| 20:13.03 | roycroft | and i'm not certain how blowfish does things |
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| 20:13.13 | somiaj | In general I think it is considered bad escuirty if someone can decrypt the hash. So maybe what you need is to put a flag on these users to use blowfish encryption to verify the users password. |
| 20:13.37 | roycroft | the encryption type is embedded in the stored password |
| 20:13.49 | roycroft | $encyrptiontype$salt$encryptedpassword |
| 20:13.57 | somiaj | I don't know how to do this, I just think your description of decrypting the passwords is not the way you want to handel this. |
| 20:14.00 | roycroft | blowfish is 2a |
| 20:14.10 | roycroft | the current debian default (sha512) is 6 |
| 20:14.27 | roycroft | so an sha512 password will be $6$salt$encyrptedpassword |
| 20:14.41 | roycroft | blowfish is $2a$salt$encrypted password |
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| 20:15.08 | greycat | somiaj: he wants an nss module or whatever that can accept OpenBSD's blowfish-hashed passwords so that he doesn't have to force every user to change their password. |
| 20:15.14 | roycroft | i see pam configuration options to set the encryption type when changing the password |
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| 20:15.52 | roycroft | but my reading about how pam works on debian indicates that it should just work for authenticating using any of the supported encryption types |
| 20:16.04 | somiaj | greycat: yea, that is what it sounded like, I was just commenting that decryting the passwords isn't the right phrasing. |
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| 20:16.20 | roycroft | it may not be, but let's please get past that :) |
| 20:16.36 | somiaj | roycroft: seems only some linux distributions enable blowfish 2a, unsure if debian does or not. |
| 20:16.44 | roycroft | what i know is that the encryption method is stored in the shadow file |
| 20:17.02 | roycroft | and the debian claims to be able to verify a password using any of the supported encryption types |
| 20:17.20 | roycroft | and it claims to support blowfish |
| 20:17.23 | somiaj | roycroft: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24981675/how-to-make-ubuntus-crypt3-support-blowfish |
| 20:17.40 | roycroft | thanks - that link looks promising |
| 20:17.44 | somiaj | roycroft: that is for ubuntu, but I expect the same to be true for debian. "Probably, there is no way to make it without building your own glibc package." |
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| 20:17.55 | somiaj | well it just says, you probably cna't do it without building a custom glibc |
| 20:18.27 | greycat | crypt(3) in buster says "Blowfish (not in mainline glibc; added in some Linux distributions)" but doesn't say whether Debian added it or not, or how to go about adding it |
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| 20:18.53 | somiaj | I found a ubuntu bug report that says it isn't in ubuntu's glibc, hence one may have to compile their own glibc for this. |
| 20:19.07 | somiaj | (though glibc maybe different between debian and ubuntu) |
| 20:19.18 | greycat | so it's not the sort of thing that can be added via a PAM or NSS module, then? |
| 20:19.36 | somiaj | My google search hasn't returned anything. |
| 20:19.56 | roycroft | i spent a bunch of time searching before coming here |
| 20:20.12 | roycroft | and if i have to build a custom glibc that doesn't bother me too much |
| 20:20.12 | jmcnaught | there's apparently a libpam-unix2 package that supports bcrypt password hashes but it's only in sid |
| 20:20.21 | roycroft | i said i cannot force all users to change their passwords |
| 20:20.25 | roycroft | that's not quite true |
| 20:20.29 | roycroft | i can, but not all at once |
| 20:20.59 | somiaj | ,i bcrypt |
| 20:21.00 | judd | Package bcrypt (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: Cross platform file encryption utility using blowfish (Decrypt only). Version: 1.1-8.1+b1; Size: 18.4k; Installed: 41k; Homepage: http://bcrypt.sourceforge.net/ |
| 20:21.14 | roycroft | if i build a custom glibc, get the system to authenticate using blowfish passwords, and set the default to sha512, i can, over time, get all users to change their passwords, which will then use sha512 |
| 20:21.23 | roycroft | at which point i would no longer need the custom glibc |
| 20:21.23 | somiaj | Intersting that the file utility for blowfish is decrypt only, wonder if it can't encrypt due to glibc not supporting it. |
| 20:21.40 | roycroft | i installed bcrypt |
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| 20:22.12 | roycroft | if i can tell pam to use pam_unix.so or bcrypt, that might work |
| 20:22.26 | roycroft | i guess my real problem is that i don't know pam well enough to know how to approach this |
| 20:22.34 | somiaj | that is for files, not passwords, so unsure if it works. I was just commenting how it it can only decrypt, which seems to suggest debian doesn't support blowfish 2a encryption in glibc. |
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| 20:22.49 | jmcnaught | ,i libxcrypt1 |
| 20:22.50 | judd | Package libxcrypt1 (libs, optional) in stretch/amd64: Crypt library for DES, MD5, and blowfish. Version: 1:2.4-4; Size: 32.0k; Installed: 77k |
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| 20:24.14 | roycroft | libxcrypt1 is also installed already |
| 20:25.12 | roycroft | it seems i probably have what is needed to use the blowfish passwords, but i don't know how to tell pam how to use the proper library/utility to do the password authentication |
| 20:25.54 | SweetDream | m |
| 20:26.15 | greycat | I'm sensing a lot of politics in the very few pages I looked at on this topic. |
| 20:26.37 | roycroft | welcome to the world of open source :) |
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| 20:27.39 | roycroft | while in my daily life i'm rather active politically, in my professional life i try to avoid politics |
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| 20:27.45 | roycroft | i'm here to solve a problem |
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| 20:30.10 | roycroft | it seems that at some point there was a pam_unix2.so on debian which supported blowfish |
| 20:31.06 | roycroft | but that was a long, long time ago |
| 20:31.45 | roycroft | it was removed in jessie |
| 20:34.03 | greycat | ,v libpam-unix2 |
| 20:34.04 | judd | No package named 'libpam-unix2' was found in amd64. |
| 20:34.39 | greycat | dpkg, why is libpam-unix2 not in testing |
| 20:34.39 | dpkg | libpam-unix2 is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=libpam-unix2 |
| 20:36.10 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libpam-unix2 is at least non-empty |
| 20:36.27 | greycat | links to a page that says "dead upstream" |
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| 20:38.35 | becks` | hi, what does "passive connections rejected because of time stamp" in netstat -s mean? I get a lot of TCP connection timeouts, and the server is counting up this value each and every time a connection fails... |
| 20:38.38 | roycroft | all indications are that i should have migrated the openbsd mail servers to debian several years ago |
| 20:39.23 | greycat | Maybe you can compile libpam-unix2 yourself? I haven't tried. |
| 20:39.39 | roycroft | that's something i'll have to look into |
| 20:39.45 | roycroft | unfortuantely i'm in a time crunch |
| 20:39.59 | becks` | also "SYNs to LISTEN sockets dropped" are increasing... wonder what is wrong :( |
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| 20:40.24 | roycroft | the openbsd machines are very old, the os is very old (it was a beta release when installed that could not be upgraded, and the beta put in production because it has support for an ethernet driver we needed) |
| 20:41.35 | roycroft | the bottom line is that the openssl on those machines only does tls1.0, newer openssl does not compile on those machiens, and the archiving service we use will require tls1.2 on 1 june |
| 20:42.01 | roycroft | my options are to figure out how to migrate the passwords, or install newer openbsd machines for now, and work out the migration plan later |
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| 20:42.07 | roycroft | i'd prefer not to build new openbsd machines right now |
| 20:42.28 | roycroft | i'm pretty much done with that os - it's not well-suited for a service provider any more |
| 20:43.09 | roycroft | i have perhaps another day to figure out the password migration issue, and if i don't have that solved by then i'll have to go with openbsd for now |
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| 20:55.25 | jhutchins_wk | becks`: bad switch/router/port. |
| 20:55.37 | becks` | will check, thanks |
| 20:56.45 | user_Max | Which SSD disk You prefer. I thinking of changing disk for a SSD one. |
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| 21:08.30 | frikinz | any SSD will do |
| 21:10.08 | AK | some help on ssds for encrypted system? |
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| 21:15.48 | Neo | hi everyone, I want to add an additional Pam module for a user connecting from an unknown host (via ssh) in this case I'm talking about libpam-google-authenticator for 2fa, what's the best way to go about doing this? |
| 21:16.12 | greycat | you could start by not cross-posting the question to multiple channels |
| 21:16.55 | Neo | oh wow |
| 21:17.09 | Neo | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 21:17.32 | Neo | hey greycat you're not wrong |
| 21:18.10 | greycat | ,v libpam-google-authenticator |
| 21:18.11 | judd | Package: libpam-google-authenticator on amd64 -- jessie: 20130529-2; stretch: 20160607-2+b1; buster: 20170702-2; sid: 20170702-2 |
| 21:18.45 | greycat | it's packaged, so I would start by reading the documentation in the Debian package; it should (hopefully) tell you how to use it |
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| 21:19.30 | user_Max | greycat, I? cross-posting |
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| 21:20.06 | Neo | while it does do that, this is more geared with using libpam more than anything else |
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| 22:00.32 | usrdev | anyone have experience with creating your own Debian installer ISO? i saw some documentation surrounding this on Debians site, but wanted first hand feedback |
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| 22:02.23 | k3g | usrdev, I didn't use the official debian workflow |
| 22:02.30 | k3g | but FAI isn't too bad to set up |
| 22:02.32 | k3g | https://fai-project.org/ |
| 22:02.45 | k3g | if you know what you want, it does it all with minimal user interaction |
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| 22:06.13 | usrdev | nice! thanks. i'll check it out! |
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| 22:11.42 | mrjpaxton | k3g: Sounds neat, but can you install it to a thumb drive and use it like a Live CD as well? |
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| 22:13.16 | hypn0 | usrdev: what sort of experience |
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| 22:13.49 | k3g | mrjpaxton, if so I've never used it that way. |
| 22:14.10 | k3g | I've used it for a bunch of kinds of headless installs, or for a 'base' image onto a new machine |
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| 22:27.33 | chet | Hey all |
| 22:28.38 | chet | so first question coming from ubuntu, how come bash complete is installed but only works for things that would be in my path |
| 22:29.46 | chet | completion* |
| 22:30.43 | Ede|Popede | chet: do you mean finding commands or possible options for the command you are about to execute? |
| 22:31.12 | chet | is there some other ubuntu magic that lets it complete for example... apt install chro<tab> |
| 22:31.26 | chet | Ede|Popede: yes I think so |
| 22:32.13 | Ede|Popede | chet: as in /etc/bash_completion.d and the files from /etc/bash_completion? |
| 22:33.01 | chet | Ede|Popede: well it completes things that would be on my path but tab doesnt work any farther down the commmand |
| 22:33.58 | Ede|Popede | the possibilities are endless as it seems, only someone would have to write or extend the completions for the particular commands. in your example it would mean parsing the db and list the hits |
| 22:35.02 | chet | it is very useful |
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| 22:36.49 | chet | wonder if there is a how to somewhere... jeepers the internet is getting littered with introduction videos and how to's, same content over and over |
| 22:36.51 | Ede|Popede | chet: links -<TAB> |
| 22:37.17 | Ede|Popede | finally found one which may be installed |
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| 22:38.03 | Ede|Popede | or `lsof -g` returns a list of PIDs |
| 22:38.52 | chet | Ede|Popede: oh it seems the hyphen is problem... |
| 22:39.29 | Ede|Popede | with a space in front it should complete to filenames i think |
| 22:39.44 | Ede|Popede | or no, see lsof -g |
| 22:40.06 | Ede|Popede | with the correct option in front of that space it should use a defined helper function |
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| 22:40.53 | chet | Ede|Popede: thank you :-) |
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| 22:44.03 | Ede|Popede | sorry i can't tell you more, but completions are still on my bucket list ;) |
| 22:44.15 | Ede|Popede | "24hrs are not enough" |
| 22:44.27 | chet | I say that often |
| 22:44.32 | magic_ninja | man debian just keeps blowing me away |
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| 22:54.24 | vishal | chet: you can see what completion function is used for each command using complete -p |
| 22:54.50 | vishal | once you have the function name, you can use some PS4 and BASH_SOURCE trickery to find the file from which it was sourced |
| 22:55.01 | vishal | in case you want to inspect those completions |
| 22:55.33 | vishal | When I wanted to write custom completions for a package, I used git's and perf's completions as a starting point |
| 22:56.13 | vishal | (git completions have evolved to be quite a beast; my fork was from a simpler time) |
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| 23:03.31 | thavaneswaran | Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader |
| 23:03.31 | thavaneswaran | I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software, |
| 23:03.31 | thavaneswaran | because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message |
| 23:03.31 | thavaneswaran | across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! |
| 23:03.31 | thavaneswaran | /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO |
| 23:03.33 | hazlewood | Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader |
| 23:03.33 | hazlewood | I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software, |
| 23:03.33 | hazlewood | because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message |
| 23:03.33 | hazlewood | across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! |
| 23:03.33 | hazlewood | /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO |
| 23:03.35 | perrimon | Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader |
| 23:03.35 | perrimon | I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software, |
| 23:03.35 | perrimon | because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message |
| 23:03.35 | perrimon | across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! |
| 23:03.35 | perrimon | /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO |
| 23:03.35 | dowsland | Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader |
| 23:03.35 | dowsland | I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software, |
| 23:03.35 | dowsland | because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message |
| 23:03.35 | dowsland | across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! |
| 23:03.35 | dowsland | /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO |
| 23:03.43 | haifa | Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader |
| 23:03.43 | haifa | I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software, |
| 23:03.43 | haifa | because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message |
| 23:03.43 | haifa | across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! |
| 23:03.43 | haifa | /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO |
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| 23:16.48 | chet | exit |
| 23:16.55 | chet | quit |
| 23:17.07 | Ede|Popede | /quit |
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| 23:22.37 | annadane | :q! |
| 23:24.46 | AK | annadane: it isn't vim :-) |
| 23:26.48 | magic_ninja | suggestions for mail clients? |
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| 23:29.02 | chet | hey why dont I have a bash_profile? |
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| 23:33.08 | Ede|Popede | ls doesn't show one? |
| 23:33.40 | Ede|Popede | ah. chet: .profile |
| 23:33.45 | hypn0 | don't you create one, its normal? |
| 23:34.15 | hypn0 | .bashrc? |
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| 23:34.28 | magic_ninja | chet, it isn't a big deal. If one doesnt' exist it uses the system default. Unless you want to do something specific or change specific options, no need. |
| 23:34.39 | Ede|Popede | if there's none in /etc/skel ... |
| 23:36.22 | Ede|Popede | the INVOCATION segment of its manpage still makes me feel tired |
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