| 00:01.26 | donofrio | so I was able to find all the .deb's on the installer netinstall cd and I thought this should work but NO ;( https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/w7H9jq8fyF/ |
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| 00:05.03 | themill | wayttd? |
| 00:05.08 | met | donofrio, looks like you're trying to mix releases (e.g. install packages from testing on stable) |
| 00:05.59 | themill | (2.27-3 isn't in any Debian release) |
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| 00:13.37 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch | Debian Buster: /msg dpkg buster ; /msg dpkg stretch->buster | Oldstable: Debian Jessie, jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:14.55 | donofrio | yep |
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| 00:18.36 | iulian_ | gnupg missing dependencies |
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| 00:20.20 | iulian_ | apt install gnupg |
| 00:21.16 | met | donofrio, what happens if you temporarily change https to http in sources.list? |
| 00:21.50 | met | then: apt-get update; apt-get install gpg |
| 00:24.43 | iulian_ | and apt-cache policy package name |
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| 00:26.56 | iulian_ | apt-get install sudo also may help |
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| 00:51.10 | teksimia1 | I'm about to break my debian box by doing some apt pinning |
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| 00:52.44 | teksimian | I'm about to break my debian box by doing some apt pinning |
| 00:52.57 | teksimian | I'm coming from ZFS land of freebsd |
| 00:53.03 | teksimian | i'd like to take a snapshot and rollback |
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| 00:53.09 | teksimian | I installed it with LVM |
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| 00:53.19 | teksimian | what's the best way to make a snapshot and rollback? |
| 00:54.00 | Primer | zfs snapshot name/of/pool@whatever |
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| 00:54.44 | teksimian | Primer: yeah, if it were on zfs |
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| 00:55.03 | teksimian | debian installs on ext4 |
| 00:55.11 | Primer | cp -ax / /path/to/other/drive |
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| 00:55.22 | Primer | then reverse that onto the new fs |
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| 00:55.45 | jmcnaught | lvcreate --size 1g --snapshot --name mysnapshot /dev/vg/lv-to-snapshot |
| 00:56.13 | teksimian | jmcnaught: it tells me there arent any extents left |
| 00:56.24 | teksimian | do i need to shrink an fs? |
| 00:56.35 | jmcnaught | teksimian: sounds like it, or add another physical volume |
| 00:57.18 | jmcnaught | teksimian: the new version of the debian-installer for buster asks if you want to leave free space on the volume group, but it's something you have to do manually in the stretch installer |
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| 00:57.31 | teksimian | jmcnaught: and to rollback you use the merge command, but as i understand it, it's essentially a live rolling backup... so how does it know when in time to rollback to ? |
| 00:58.10 | teksimian | jmcnaught: is buster testing or unstable at this point? |
| 00:59.20 | teksimian | wiki says testing :) |
| 01:00.01 | jmcnaught | teksimian: buster is testing, it's scheduled to be released on July 6th. To merge you do "lvconvert --merge vg/lv" and it sets the origin logical volume back to the state it was at the time of the snapshot |
| 01:00.43 | teksimian | perfect, does ext4 shrink ? |
| 01:00.46 | teksimian | *can it |
| 01:01.01 | jmcnaught | teksimian: you can shrink it but I don't think it can be done online |
| 01:01.12 | jmcnaught | growing can be done online |
| 01:01.16 | teksimian | fair enough, thanks for your help. |
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| 01:37.18 | donofrio | iulian_, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H9YqxGp3MM/ |
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| 01:48.08 | iulian_ | donofrio, try apt-cache search package name.Are you on Buster or Stretch ? |
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| 01:48.53 | iulian_ | also apt update and apt upgrade |
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| 01:54.13 | donofrio | iulian_, I'm working on an sid/buster netinstall that has no gpg on the mirrors so I cannot update or something like that....I'm booted and sshed into the client from my workstation |
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| 01:58.43 | iulian_ | donofrio, apt install gnupg2 |
| 01:59.42 | donofrio | iulian_, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RVNQJBhcGp/ |
| 02:01.11 | iulian_ | apt instal gpgv |
| 02:02.36 | themill | donofrio: this is powerpc arch? |
| 02:02.44 | donofrio | yep |
| 02:03.41 | themill | you need to stop trying to use debian mirrors for powerpc |
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| 02:04.48 | hackerexecute | For those who have been using Linux for years, do you prefer ls or 'ls -al' ? |
| 02:04.48 | themill | You might be able to get this installer to work by using snapshot.debian.org, more likely you need http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ |
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| 02:08.44 | donofrio | themill, I'll use whatever sources you good folks say, can you paste.ubuntu.com over your sample of what I should do cause last time I switched sources.list I was unable to get back to working or general confusion |
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| 02:09.40 | themill | I have no idea what you need, I just know that powerpc is not a supported architecture any more |
| 02:10.08 | somiaj | I know that #debianppc on irc.oftc.net is fairly dead, but that is still your best bet at getting someone with experience with this. |
| 02:10.09 | themill | The last supported powerpc release was jessie fwiw |
| 02:10.20 | donofrio | I'm lurking there too |
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| 02:10.44 | somiaj | though once you figure this out, maybe help document it for future users. |
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| 02:14.00 | iulian_ | donofrio, or you need this to transfer data trough ssh ? |
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| 02:16.35 | NicolayHell | Hello Debianos |
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| 05:51.52 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | hi guys |
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| 06:08.41 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | hi guys |
| 06:09.07 | mint | hello, I am using Boot Repair in linux live usb. I am confused about some things. Please help. |
| 06:09.19 | mint | trying to reinstall grub |
| 06:10.45 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | hi mint, what exactly is the issue? |
| 06:10.46 | mint | there is an option "separate /boot/efi partition under Advanced options- Grub location |
| 06:10.58 | mint | should I select that? |
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| 06:11.14 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | you don't need to seperate |
| 06:11.30 | mint | could you please elaborate? |
| 06:11.44 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | it is whether you would like you root files on the same drive |
| 06:11.57 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | which you can if you wish |
| 06:12.08 | mint | I have created an esp on sda1 |
| 06:12.26 | mint | on sda2 is the linux os installed. |
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| 06:12.55 | mint | should I select that option? |
| 06:13.10 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | yes |
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| 06:13.37 | mint | separate /boot/efi partition |
| 06:13.47 | mint | should I select that? |
| 06:13.51 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | yes |
| 06:13.56 | mint | ok |
| 06:14.00 | mint | thanks |
| 06:14.04 | _G1ASS_8R3AK3R | let me know how you get on |
| 06:14.10 | mint | ok |
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| 06:32.09 | mint | _G1A55_8R3AK3R: this message popped up. https://hastebin.com/idofivagib.sql |
| 06:33.13 | mint | _G1A55_8R3AK3R: shall I restart the computer and check whether everything went fine? |
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| 06:47.33 | mrtnt | If one is serving (mostly) static web pages with Apache on Debian, then is there a still point to set up caching? One would think that operating system caching is enough.. |
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| 07:32.02 | finn0 | Do I have to explictly subscribe bug to get notification for any update although I have participated in discussion? |
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| 07:39.10 | themill | finn0: yes |
| 07:39.51 | CrazyTux | can we install in VirtualBox all the software packages that we can install in Windows that is installed on the HDD? |
| 07:40.07 | CrazyTux | or are there any limitations? |
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| 07:40.26 | Habbie | CrazyTux, what OS is running inside virtualbox? |
| 07:40.39 | CrazyTux | Habbie: Windows. |
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| 07:41.12 | CrazyTux | Habbie: I need to install and use some packages that can't be installed on a linux distro. |
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| 07:41.34 | CrazyTux | Habbie: but that package requires at least 250 GBs of disk space. |
| 07:41.34 | Habbie | CrazyTux, ok - that's not really a debian question, but if you can mention the packages, maybe somebody will know anyway |
| 07:41.45 | finn0 | themill: Isn't it good idea to automatically subscribe users who has participated in discussion like other bug tracking system (for ex. bugzilla, gitlab) etc? |
| 07:41.47 | CrazyTux | Habbie: SAP IDES. |
| 07:42.02 | Habbie | CrazyTux, those don't sound like they demand working 3D or other 'hardware' stuff |
| 07:42.08 | Habbie | CrazyTux, so my guess would be that it would work |
| 07:42.34 | CrazyTux | Habbie: it requires at least 250 GBs of disk space. |
| 07:42.39 | Habbie | CrazyTux, so? |
| 07:42.53 | CrazyTux | Habbie: how can I allocate that much disk space? |
| 07:42.58 | ayekat | assign it a 250+ GB virtual disk |
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| 07:43.04 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:43.33 | CrazyTux | I tried dual booting windows with linux distro. But, encountered some problems. |
| 07:43.53 | CrazyTux | I thought installing it in VBox would be a better idea. |
| 07:44.06 | Habbie | what problems did you have? |
| 07:44.25 | CrazyTux | I also need to install and use MS Office. Can I install it inside VBox? |
| 07:44.41 | CrazyTux | Habbie: one of the OSes not getting detected. |
| 07:45.09 | Habbie | lots of people use ms office in vbox |
| 07:45.19 | ayekat | CrazyTux: given the nature of the questions so far, though... sanity question: do you have enough space to store a 250+ GB disk? |
| 07:45.39 | ayekat | because "how can I allocate that much space" makes me think that you don't have the space on your disk |
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| 07:45.51 | CrazyTux | ayekat: the HDD on this computer is of 1 TB capacity. |
| 07:46.08 | ayekat | ah... then it's probably fine ^^ |
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| 07:46.31 | CrazyTux | ayekat: I will create a partition of 300 GBs. |
| 07:46.52 | ayekat | why a partition? |
| 07:47.12 | ayekat | do you want to dual-boot or use TheOtherOS in virtualbox? |
| 07:47.25 | CrazyTux | ayekat: no. Just Windows. |
| 07:47.49 | ayekat | (I'm afraid that was not a yes/no question) |
| 07:47.52 | CrazyTux | Linux as host OS and Windows as Guest OS. |
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| 07:48.18 | CrazyTux | I need to install this package. https://wiki.scn.sap.com/wiki/display/HOME/IDES |
| 07:48.21 | ayekat | CrazyTux: so why create a partition? |
| 07:48.53 | CrazyTux | ayekat: where can I save the VirtualDisc? |
| 07:49.06 | ayekat | CrazyTux: VirtualBox does it for you when you create a virtual machine |
| 07:49.26 | ayekat | it has a nice graphical wizard menu thingy for creating new virtual machines - just click through that |
| 07:49.34 | CrazyTux | but, this partition on which linux is installed is of only 100 GB. |
| 07:50.01 | ayekat | I see - then setting up a bigger filesystem somewhere does make sense |
| 07:50.02 | CrazyTux | I have about 10 partitions created on the HDD, each of 100 GBs. |
| 07:50.21 | ayekat | ... why |
| 07:50.37 | CrazyTux | ayekat: for convenience |
| 07:51.17 | ayekat | uh huh... |
| 07:51.32 | CrazyTux | ayekat: and also, I need to free up a lot of space. This HDD is almost full. |
| 07:52.38 | CrazyTux | only two partitions of about 100 GBs each are free now. |
| 07:53.09 | CrazyTux | SAP IDES would require about 250 GBs of space |
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| 07:54.30 | CrazyTux | ayekat: are you sure, this SAP IDES can be installed and run inside the VBox? |
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| 07:54.45 | Habbie | CrazyTux, no, we are not sure, but i can't immediately see why not |
| 07:54.56 | CrazyTux | Habbie: ok |
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| 07:55.50 | CrazyTux | Habbie: would it be cumbersome to install SAP IDES inside VBox? would it be as easy as installing it on Windows that is installed on HDD? |
| 07:56.14 | Habbie | CrazyTux, it should be exactly as painful as on windows without vbox, unless there is something special about SAP IDES |
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| 07:56.30 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 07:57.04 | patterson | Windows 1903 pro changes everything. Like anyone cares |
| 07:57.42 | CrazyTux | what is that? |
| 07:58.56 | patterson | VB is busted |
| 07:59.18 | CrazyTux | what does it mean? |
| 07:59.31 | patterson | Virtual Box is broken |
| 07:59.34 | CrazyTux | ok |
| 08:00.02 | CrazyTux | btw, which is better for installing in VBox? Windows 10 or Windows 8.1? |
| 08:00.09 | patterson | Perfectly rational |
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| 08:00.25 | patterson | Pro anyway |
| 08:00.28 | CrazyTux | I have 4 GBs of RAM. |
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| 08:00.36 | patterson | I have Cake |
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| 08:00.45 | CrazyTux | I don't intend to upgrade the RAM |
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| 08:01.38 | patterson | Uh |
| 08:02.13 | patterson | 'You look like a nice person, go ahead and uy mor e ram |
| 08:02.59 | patterson | Please. Tkae 167 |
| 08:03.03 | patterson | 16 |
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| 08:03.41 | patterson | Why go all slow and hoopty |
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| 08:05.00 | patterson | 16 gb ram would appeart to be the odern inimum |
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| 08:05.10 | patterson | mm |
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| 08:05.34 | ayekat | mostly it appears 16 GB makes you type all incoherently |
| 08:05.55 | patterson | Let's crank it up to 64 while you are walking arond |
| 08:06.13 | patterson | pardon moi :) |
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| 08:07.54 | uio | Hello, doing a Debian stable install on an Asus eeepc with the encryption option provided in the installer. Now I have rebooted the machine, it displays the unlock encryption prompt, so I enter the password, it says it's fine, and then shortly after, black screen. I should perhaps mention that during the install, I got through the 'write random information' just before the key selection, and then had to interupt install. So I started |
| 08:07.54 | uio | installation again after, but all seemed to go well using the non GUI installer. What is going on? |
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| 08:09.29 | patterson | start pevr and don't encrypt? |
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| 08:09.54 | patterson | over |
| 08:11.34 | uio | patterson, Interesting idea, but not a real solution. |
| 08:11.48 | patterson | ine |
| 08:11.51 | patterson | Fine |
| 08:12.10 | patterson | Because you haev encryptd vloumes |
| 08:12.21 | uio | I mean that's an option, but if something is in the Debain installer, it should work. |
| 08:12.25 | CrazyTux | I will try |
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| 08:13.37 | patterson | Encryption just makes thing sharder in my opinion |
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| 08:14.05 | uio | patterson, Right, any security is usually slightly more complicated. |
| 08:14.14 | Ticho | stop feeding the (drunk?) troll |
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| 08:14.32 | uio | Can someone just kick them off? |
| 08:14.42 | patterson | I consider installing Dbian ot be a recreational activuty |
| 08:15.21 | patterson | Thanks. Ticho |
| 08:15.33 | blackflow | uio: yup, but until then, /ignore works wonders ;) |
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| 08:16.32 | uio | blackflow, Cool, just did it! |
| 08:16.35 | uio | Thanks. |
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| 08:16.45 | uio | Okay, I think I have to modify boot parameters. |
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| 08:18.32 | Marbug | Good morning! I seem to have an issue with python, and more specifically pip packages. I got multipel packages that are throwing a stack trace after pip is mentioning Cleaning up.. and the package doesn't seem to be installed. That is with pip v9 from apt, whenever I upgrade pip through pip to v19, it quite immediately throws a stack trace about so |
| 08:18.32 | Marbug | mething in main. pip2 isn't really an issue, it install everything, although I need the pip3 packages, and that is crashing constantly. Is there a way to reinstall all pip and pip3 packages? Or even the system packages? |
| 08:18.51 | uio | Would adding nomodeset help me? |
| 08:18.57 | uio | https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/09/msg00682.html |
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| 08:19.27 | CrazyTux | Win 10 or Win 8.1 in VirtualBox? |
| 08:19.42 | blackflow | Marbug: just reinstall the virtualenv? Hopefully you have a file with list of packages (and versions) you can easily pip install -r with |
| 08:19.54 | blackflow | and first thing in the new virtualenv, upgrade pip |
| 08:21.17 | finn0 | Is Tor browser present in stable repos? If so, what's name of the package? I could find it using tor and tor-browser keyword. |
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| 08:21.50 | patterson | VB is broken i windows 1903 |
| 08:21.53 | patterson | Pro |
| 08:22.33 | patterson | Here,. Try a bare mwetal hypervisor |
| 08:22.36 | Marbug | blackflow it's not a virtualenv, well it's an lxd container, but then going further, when I wanted to delete it, it mentioned that the dataset was busy as I used lxd from snap potencially, and there might be a bug :( |
| 08:22.57 | blackflow | Marbug: wait, you didn't install packages as root did you? even if lxd |
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| 08:23.15 | Marbug | I know the best option is to start from scratch, I already have a temporary solution where I installed a new lxd env with the requirements |
| 08:23.23 | Marbug | blackflow I did install the packages as root :) |
| 08:23.52 | blackflow | Marbug: yeah no, you shouldn't do that. Even if it's a container, root'd pip will clobber system python packages. don't do that. use a virtualenv |
| 08:23.53 | Marbug | as I don't want to install it as the user, I use the same user as on my host inside the lxd enviroments |
| 08:24.06 | blackflow | and also build a list of packages you can use with -r for pip |
| 08:24.13 | Marbug | that I have :) |
| 08:24.30 | blackflow | you can run as root, but use a virtualenv for pip installed stuff |
| 08:24.33 | Marbug | so virtualenv would be a solution, even when using lxd ? |
| 08:24.50 | blackflow | yes because even an lxd has a base OS system installation you can easily break |
| 08:25.15 | blackflow | containers are ONLY (and nothing more than) namespaces. inside namespaces you need a bare minimum OS userland (so, sans teh kernel and sans systemd) |
| 08:25.16 | uio | I tried following the advice https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/09/msg00682.html. But it still doesn't work. Just a black screen after the encrypt unlock and some 'welcome to debian' and other stuff... |
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| 08:25.54 | Marbug | yeah, well unfortunately, I took ubuntu18 and it has systemd ð
blackflow |
| 08:26.25 | Marbug | well anyway, I'll try to get it fixed using a virtualenv :) |
| 08:26.33 | blackflow | Marbug: wel thats okay. my point was that you don't need an init (any init) inside a container, but sure you can treat the container as a "VM" and have full OS sans the kernel |
| 08:26.34 | Marbug | thanks for the feedback blackflow! |
| 08:26.45 | finn0 | I found a torbrowser-launcher package which is referred to by other package(s) but not package is not available. |
| 08:27.21 | Marbug | yep that is what I want, as we install multiple packages, and I wantto have the flexebility of a system and not as a container like docker blackflow :) |
| 08:28.18 | blackflow | Marbug: that's fine. which still means you should use pip only inside a virtualenv, as it _will_ break system python |
| 08:28.28 | blackflow | (otherwise will) |
| 08:29.37 | Marbug | okido, and I thought that containing it within an lxd would be fine, well I already did it for more than a year as I want to avoid virtualenv, up untill now when I got a brand new laptop :) |
| 08:29.46 | blackflow | uio: did you remove "quite" from the kernel cmdline in grub? do you have any output after passphrase? |
| 08:30.17 | blackflow | Marbug: it is fine wrt the _host_ but it is not fine wrt the OS inside the contianer. you just have another OS in there with very same problems as the host. |
| 08:31.16 | blackflow | so, you won't clobber host's filesystem, only guest's (if we can use the term "guest" for a container) |
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| 08:32.06 | Marbug | well yeah we can, well lesson learned, use virtualenv ð
|
| 08:32.13 | CrazyTux | is this the version of Windows you were talking about? https://getintopc.com/softwares/operating-systems/windows-10-enterprise-1903-update-june-2019-download/ |
| 08:32.33 | CrazyTux | this won't work in VirtualBox? |
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| 08:33.05 | uio | blackflow, I did remove quiet, and I recall seeing 'Welcome to Debian' and a bunch of other really fast text... |
| 08:33.16 | uio | Should I reboot for more specific words? |
| 08:33.20 | finn0 | Oh, thats make sense. Torbrowser-launcher is only available on jessie and sid (https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=torbrowser-launcher). Does that mean these is no torbrowser package available for stable? If so, why? |
| 08:33.40 | blackflow | uio: does the text disappear? |
| 08:34.00 | uio | blackflow, I just entered the username and password and I hear it starting into maybe the DE, but still no output |
| 08:34.14 | uio | blackflow, Yes, it just goes black. |
| 08:34.29 | uio | I have a totally black, non-lit screen right now. |
| 08:34.49 | blackflow | finn0: https://tracker.debian.org/news/1037464/torbrowser-launcher-removed-from-testing/ |
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| 08:36.03 | blackflow | finn0: actually I wanted to link the bug inside it, copypasta fail. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=926042 |
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| 08:36.59 | blackflow | uio: sounds like gpu driver issues |
| 08:37.50 | blackflow | uio: see if you can force it into text mode. add via grub (where you removed "quiet"): systemd.unit=multi-user.target |
| 08:38.51 | blackflow | uio: if that works, log in, and check the failures of previous boot. journalctl -e -b -1 , as well as /var/log/Xorg.1.log |
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| 08:39.55 | uio | I don't know if this is relevant, but Lubuntu gave me no such issues. |
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| 08:40.58 | blackflow | it's not :) |
| 08:41.20 | uio | Is it a free / non-free thing!, |
| 08:41.23 | uio | *? |
| 08:41.39 | blackflow | uio: you will know when you try the text mode and read the logs. |
| 08:41.46 | uio | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:42.09 | blackflow | btw afaik lubuntu doesn't pre-install proprietary drivers, so it's using the very same kernel drivers, albeit different version and different ubuntu patches |
| 08:42.45 | uio | This is tricky to enter the right chars with a keyboard mismatch... |
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| 08:50.39 | uio | blackflow, No luck. Still the black screen. |
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| 08:55.15 | mms_ | I have vbox and installed debian 9 but no internet working from debian guest |
| 08:55.22 | mms_ | can you guide on how to troubleshoot |
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| 08:55.37 | mms_ | my host has wifi based interent |
| 08:55.50 | mms_ | NAT is choosen for networking in vbox |
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| 08:56.00 | blackflow | uio: there's a ton of google links for "eeepc debian black screen", did you look those up? |
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| 08:56.26 | blackflow | mms_: pastebin the output of `ip a` please, from teh guest |
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| 08:57.06 | uio | blackflow, I was searching, but hadn't thought of putting eeepc. Thanks. I'll look. |
| 08:59.30 | mms_ | blackflow: pastebin.com is blocked from my network |
| 08:59.41 | mms_ | blackflow: let me try some other |
| 09:01.10 | uio | I don't know, there isn't much Debian specific info, some mention Ubuntu, but I didn't have all these issues with Lubuntu... |
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| 09:03.24 | mms_ | blackflow: https://www.pastefs.com/pid/133872 |
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| 09:05.49 | mms_ | blackflow: my laptop has wifi based internet .... |
| 09:06.34 | uio | Recovery mode doesn't work either... |
| 09:06.46 | uio | Is this a driver issue?? |
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| 09:10.15 | uio | Adding nosplash didn't help either. Why can't Debian just work. Sigh. I think I might just go back to Lubuntu. |
| 09:10.21 | uio | At least it works. |
| 09:10.26 | mms_ | blackflow: ? |
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| 09:11.18 | uio | mms_, I think we're on our own! |
| 09:12.44 | uio | Well, Thanks for trying to help. I've got other shit to do but might try again later. Cheers. |
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| 09:39.01 | blackflow | mms_: sorry, I had to step out for a moment. yeah, says no carrier for enp0s3, so that'd mean you misconfigured it on the host side. |
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| 09:39.50 | mms_ | blackflow: what to do |
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| 09:40.04 | mms_ | blackflow: what to configure on host side then ? |
| 09:40.17 | mms_ | its NAT selected in vbox |
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| 09:41.49 | blackflow | mms_: that's virtualbox and/or windows specific issue, not debian |
| 09:42.10 | mms_ | I tried adding allow-hotplug enp0s3 and then iface enp0s3 inet dhcp but not good |
| 09:42.21 | mms_ | blackflow: ok |
| 09:43.22 | blackflow | mms_: otoh, see if virtualbox supports "virtio" network driver, and use that instead. that'll change the NIC name in the guest though. but use virtio wherever possible. |
| 09:45.15 | tachikomas | mms_: are you sure your network is bridged ? |
| 09:45.29 | tachikomas | if you want some easy stuff you can always use Network Manager |
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| 09:47.27 | blackflow | tachikomas: it's NAT, not bridged. and NM in the guest is irrelevat as long as the nic says no carrier |
| 09:48.14 | mms_ | tachikomas: its NAT |
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| 09:48.49 | mms_ | tachikomas: I am using it like in past but with debian 9 I see its not working |
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| 09:49.24 | mms_ | tachikomas: I have laptop and it has wifi internet. so now in guest how can I used it ? I used NAT in past. |
| 09:49.28 | blackflow | mms_: did you / can you try the virtio driver? |
| 09:51.09 | mms_ | blackflow: I did not use them in past and with vbox 6 do i need them ? |
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| 09:51.28 | mms_ | or with debain 9 do I need them ? |
| 09:51.31 | blackflow | mms_: virtio is paravirtualized and if the VB on windows supports it, then by all means use it. |
| 09:52.03 | blackflow | mms_: "need"? no, but virtio is performing better and is supportd by the kernel better, than some badly emulated intel nic |
| 09:52.58 | blackflow | mms_: this setting is on the host side. "Adapter type" under Advanced, but I don't know if there's virtio on windows, haven't used it in many years. |
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| 09:54.10 | mms_ | blackflow: my laptop is work laptop and have admin rights for limited time to do things but if I add things that will conflict with their standard drivers it will be problem |
| 09:54.35 | blackflow | mms_: you don't have to add anything on the host side, you only need to select virtio-net from the drop down, if it's there. |
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| 09:55.34 | blackflow | mms_: this drop-down (but on the windows host side) https://i.stack.imgur.com/a8teY.png |
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| 09:58.40 | mms_ | do I need to choose cable connected ? |
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| 09:59.26 | blackflow | mms_: what do you mean? |
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| 10:00.07 | NetTerminalGene | which package should i install to open a sqlite db file? |
| 10:00.51 | mms_ | there is a checkbox in that network adpater screen about cable plugged |
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| 10:01.09 | mms_ | blackflow: do I need to use bride adapter instead of NAT |
| 10:01.21 | mms_ | do I need to restart some thing for it to take effect in vm ? |
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| 10:01.28 | blackflow | mms_: I'm gonna hazard a guess and say yes, you need to plug in the virtual cable for the virtual nic to work the virtual network. :) |
| 10:01.51 | blackflow | mms_: you have to restart teh VM, yes, and like I said, be careful the NIC name inside the VM will change. |
| 10:02.05 | blackflow | to ens3 if I'm not mistaken |
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| 10:28.13 | uio | Hi, did a fresh Debian 9 install. After entering disk key without the quiet setting I see lines of text fly by like normal until it passes 'Welcome to Debian' and some more lines. Then right when the screen text usually resizes to smaller text on a working boot, the screen goes black. How can i solve this? |
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| 10:30.50 | blackflow | uio: btw, do you happen to know which gpu is in that thing? |
| 10:31.53 | uio | blackflow, No, how could I find out? |
| 10:32.23 | uio | I think this is it https://www.asus.com/Laptops/Eee_PC_1025C/ |
| 10:33.43 | blackflow | uio: just to be sure, you used the 32-bit ISO, right? I doubt it'd even boot if you didn't, but I have to ask |
| 10:34.26 | uio | blackflow, Yes, i386 I believe. |
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| 10:34.50 | uio | "With its Intel GMA 3600 integrated GPU" from https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/asus-eeepc-1025c-flare |
| 10:35.25 | blackflow | uio: tried adding "nomodeset" to the kernel command line? |
| 10:35.47 | uio | I tried 'nomodeset quiet nosplash' after ro with no success. |
| 10:35.47 | blackflow | I think someone mentioned it before but I CBA to scroll up and find it, and what your answer was |
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| 10:36.11 | blackflow | uio: and without quiet too, right? |
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| 10:36.24 | uio | blackflow, Rigth. |
| 10:36.27 | uio | *right |
| 10:36.41 | uio | I think it boots, but there is a display issue. |
| 10:36.58 | uio | You know that moment when it switches from big text to smaller text during the boot process? |
| 10:38.07 | blackflow | uio: hence the nomodeset suggestion. |
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| 10:38.50 | blackflow | if that doesn't fix it, I have no idea what could be wrong. the installer USB worked, right? perhaps you can reboot into it, mount your installed filesystem and inspect its logs. |
| 10:39.06 | blackflow | there should be a rescue mode in the installer |
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| 10:39.50 | uio | Okay, but god, I don't have time for this... thanks though. |
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| 10:42.56 | finn0 | I was installing some collection packages using apt but later decided not install and press ctrl+c to kill process when package downloading was a 50%. Now, I want remove all downloaded packages. How can I delete all downloaded packages which are not installed by apt? |
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| 10:44.32 | uio | wtf Debian. |
| 10:45.06 | colo-work | finn0, `apt-get clean` |
| 10:45.14 | blackflow | uio: more likely it's wtf linux kernel. |
| 10:45.59 | humpled | that's the point where the framebuffer is started right? |
| 10:46.00 | blackflow | uio: you are however trying a rather old, 32-bit hardware. even though debian itself will continue supporting i386 packages, the kernel is in rather bad shape with 32-bit support. |
| 10:46.02 | finn0 | colo-work: I already tried it but nothing happens (means no output to terminal) |
| 10:46.06 | uio | blackflow, I don't think so, because there was no wtf Lubuntu, so I think this is Debian's issue. |
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| 10:46.20 | blackflow | uio: eh the kernel version is different |
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| 10:46.35 | jelly | blackflow: where did you get that about bad 32bit support |
| 10:46.38 | uio | blackflow, I see your point, but if it's offered, in my opinion it should work. |
| 10:46.56 | uio | Is it that X is not starting?? |
| 10:47.06 | blackflow | jelly: from various mailing lists, GKH himself spoke often about 32-bit in the kernel being like that, and there no being mitigations for meltre |
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| 10:47.48 | blackflow | uio: (l)ubuntu will frequently blackscreen on boot after minor updates, though. it really is alla bout the kernel, debian isn't doing anything special to it. |
| 10:48.02 | jelly | noone paid to get 32bit mitigations |
| 10:48.04 | blackflow | anyway, it would be awesome if you could mount your installed root and inspect the logs, could be something trivial to fix. |
| 10:48.20 | jelly | that's quite a different issue from video-intel / i915fb bugs |
| 10:48.45 | blackflow | jelly: it's not tested enough, that's what the main problem is. |
| 10:48.49 | jelly | uio: which cpu is there? |
| 10:48.49 | colo-work | finn0, that is expected |
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| 10:48.57 | blackflow | jelly: intel Atom, that's an eeepc |
| 10:49.07 | jelly | which particular Atom? |
| 10:49.17 | jelly | N2700? |
| 10:49.17 | finn0 | colo-work: okay |
| 10:49.22 | jelly | something else? |
| 10:49.24 | blackflow | jelly: 2600 according to specs |
| 10:49.30 | blackflow | jelly: https://www.asus.com/Laptops/Eee_PC_1025C/specifications/ |
| 10:49.39 | colo-work | finn0, you can check /var/cache/apt/archives/ for any leftover stuff |
| 10:49.49 | uio | blackflow, Is this possible seeing as I encypted the disk? |
| 10:49.52 | jelly | I'd rather read if from uio's /proc/cpuinfo |
| 10:50.16 | blackflow | jelly: agreed, that's why I'd love them to boot into rescue (and mount the rootfs for some additional logs) |
| 10:50.19 | jelly | uio: not likely. Do you have a second machine on the same network so you can ssh into this one? |
| 10:50.20 | blackflow | uio: you can unlock it :) |
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| 10:51.29 | blackflow | jelly: it's (installer-made) LUKS based FDE, should be possible to unlock it from the rescue mode and mount the rootfs |
| 10:51.49 | finn0 | colo-work: nothing their. Thanks. |
| 10:53.22 | uio | jelly, I didn't install ssh during the install. But I do have a machine on the same wifi. |
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| 10:53.54 | uio | blackflow, It looked to me like rescue mode was trying to do an install again, but I'll take another look. |
| 10:54.24 | jelly | blackflow: or even unlock it blindly after framebuffer messes the console up |
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| 10:55.10 | jelly | N2600 seems to support 64bit. The question is whether BIOS disables that intentionally |
| 10:55.16 | blackflow | jelly: that's already done, uio said this happens after unlocking root, after systemd diagnostic output and right about when it should modeset |
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| 10:56.04 | jelly | uio: is firmware-misc-nonfree (intel gpu firmware) installed? |
| 10:56.42 | uio | jelly, I don't think so as I just used the iso from Debian's site : XFCE |
| 10:57.02 | jelly | probably should have used unofficial image with firmware instead |
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| 10:57.31 | jelly | uio: do you have a linux livecd/liveusb that works? |
| 10:57.47 | uio | jeI have the debian installer usb. |
| 10:57.50 | uio | Is that good? |
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| 10:58.29 | jelly | debian-installer makes for a very poor live |
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| 10:59.31 | jelly | uio: did you try booting with i915.modeset=0 parameter? |
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| 11:01.25 | uio | jelly, With quiet? |
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| 11:01.43 | jelly | uio: quiet just hides things, go without that |
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| 11:02.34 | jelly | that's old enough to be one of the models with PowerVR / Poulsbo / gma500 and not intel gpu |
| 11:02.49 | jelly | in which case it's crap for linux |
| 11:02.57 | jelly | but maybe it's not |
| 11:03.02 | uio | no luck |
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| 11:03.14 | uio | i915.... doesn't help. |
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| 11:03.42 | uio | blackflow, I don't see how rescue mode can help. It seems to want to do the install again, asking for machine name and so on. |
| 11:04.41 | jelly | uio: then you did not enter rescue mode |
| 11:05.08 | jelly | uio: can you get some other live image? grml.org is nice |
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| 11:06.06 | blackflow | uio: it helps because you can mount your installed root and a) inspect the logs, b) chroot and install the firmware as jelly suggested |
| 11:06.14 | uio | Get this: hooking it up to an external monitor gives the correct display!? |
| 11:06.21 | uio | wtf |
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| 11:06.31 | blackflow | if you say BIOS settings, I'll flip the table |
| 11:06.57 | uio | I just connected the monitor and it's in. |
| 11:07.01 | jelly | uio: that sounds like broken EDID settings in video bios |
| 11:07.14 | uio | jelly, blackflow How do address that? |
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| 11:08.31 | jelly | uio: first figure out which gpu and drive is _actually_ used, then look around https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/kernel_mode_setting#Forcing_modes_and_EDID |
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| 11:11.26 | m1dnight_ | Hey all. I wanted to install intellij, and figured snap would be the easiest way, because otherwise you have to move it to /opt/ manually and create symlinks all over the place. But now that I installed it through snap, I still have to manually execute /snap/intellij/152/bin/run.sh |
| 11:11.33 | m1dnight_ | Did I do something wrong, or is this normal behaviour? |
| 11:11.40 | blackflow | m1dnight_: pycharm? |
| 11:11.59 | m1dnight_ | yeah pycharm/intellij both the same concept applies really |
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| 11:12.09 | m1dnight_ | intellij idea in myh case to be specific |
| 11:12.22 | blackflow | oh raw intellij. k, yeah, you need to create a .desktop for it. on debian, snaps aren't as integrated as they are on ubuntu, last time I checked. |
| 11:12.35 | blackflow | also consider putting /snap/bin in your path |
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| 11:12.55 | m1dnight_ | Ah! That's something I can workw ith. I was trying to google for an introductory article explaining where snap puts its bin files and whatnot |
| 11:12.59 | m1dnight_ | but this is good too. thanks! |
| 11:13.02 | blackflow | m1dnight_: actually, you iirc you don't need to create the .desktop link, just copy it off from /snap/... whereever it installed |
| 11:13.20 | blackflow | put it in ~/.local/share/applications/ |
| 11:14.04 | jelly | uio: "lspci -nn" and "lsmod" and dmesg and /var/log/Xorg.0.log will be useful in determining that |
| 11:14.31 | blackflow | m1dnight_: I opted to unpacking to /opt/ myself. I don't like how the snap autoupdates in the middle of me working, and I don't like all the namespace/mount pollution that snapd does. |
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| 11:15.22 | uio | How do I know what my gpu is?? |
| 11:15.40 | uio | jelly, Thanks, Just saw it. |
| 11:16.13 | m1dnight_ | yeah, seems fair |
| 11:16.21 | m1dnight_ | At this point there is no advantage for me to use snap I guess. |
| 11:16.23 | m1dnight_ | Thanks blackflow. |
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| 11:17.14 | blackflow | m1dnight_: I'd use a snap only if I couldn't do anything else. |
| 11:17.42 | m1dnight_ | well yeah. I was unaware of what exactly it was. It's like a simpler version of docker of some sorts, I guess? |
| 11:19.35 | blackflow | m1dnight_: not simpler but different -- containerized application delivery platform |
| 11:19.43 | m1dnight_ | Hrm, this is an interesting thing. I was playing around with symlinking /snap/bin/intellij to /usr/bin/intellij. /snap/bin/intellij works to start intellij. but then /usr/bin/intellij just shows me this: https://exbin.call-cc.be/TotalizeLiberalists |
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| 11:20.33 | blackflow | m1dnight_: yeah don't symlink it. /snap/bin are already symlinks to snap which then resolves the path it was called from, to figure out which snap is called. |
| 11:20.54 | blackflow | bad design but eh... canonical, cant' expect better. |
| 11:21.34 | uio | Okay, I don't get this, I'm trying to install sudo (to install hexchat) and # su apt instal sudo gives 'Media change: please insert the disk labeled 'Debian....' shit |
| 11:22.49 | blackflow | uio: comment out the cdrom deb line in /etc/apt/sources.list, re-run apt update |
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| 11:24.02 | uio1 | ping |
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| 11:26.57 | jmaher | does anyone use munin? How do I get the overview page to show if the client node is actually up? |
| 11:27.25 | uio1 | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/c0c920a9/ |
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| 11:28.21 | uio1 | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/f0244bbd/ |
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| 11:33.14 | uio | Well, those links are the outputs lspci and lsmod |
| 11:34.15 | uio | What am I looking for? |
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| 11:34.41 | uio | Is it the VGA line? |
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| 11:39.06 | uio | So, it's booted, with display on the external monitor, what should I do now? |
| 11:39.18 | jelly | uio: yes, that seems to be "Cedarview" and gma500_gfx the kernel part of the driver |
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| 11:39.50 | uio | jelly, Is there a fix? |
| 11:40.12 | uio | jelly, Is it that package you mentioned before? |
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| 11:41.19 | jelly | uio: probably won't help, those contain firmware for i915 GPU |
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| 11:41.49 | uio | Well, there must be a solution, it worked with Lubuntu, puppy, Antix... |
| 11:42.07 | jelly | "modinfo gma500_gfx" does not show it wants any firmware |
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| 11:42.32 | blackflow | can't you force xorg to use a particular display? |
| 11:43.09 | uio | blackflow, How could I do that? |
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| 11:44.54 | blackflow | for starters test with xrandr. xrandr --output DVI0 --auto --primary (use whatevr the laptop display is, instead of DVI0) |
| 11:45.04 | blackflow | xrandr --listmonitors to list them |
| 11:45.56 | uio1 | xrandr --listmonitors |
| 11:45.56 | uio1 | Monitors: 2 |
| 11:45.56 | uio1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:45.56 | uio1 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:46.54 | blackflow | right, so try LVDS-1 in that first xrandr command |
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| 11:48.49 | uio1 | blackflow, I just did it, no change. |
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| 11:50.10 | blackflow | uio1: okay, try rebooting with this in kernel command line: video=VGA-1:d that should disable the external monitor and likely force the use of built in screen |
| 11:51.01 | uio | blackflow, In theory though, should not booting without an external monitor attached also force the use of the laptop screen? |
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| 11:51.34 | blackflow | in theory, yes |
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| 11:52.05 | uio | And that hasn't worked, so mustn't the problem be elsewhere? |
| 11:52.41 | blackflow | uio: maybe it needs to be explicitly told |
| 11:52.51 | uio | blackflow, Okay, here goes. |
| 11:53.28 | uio | This will go in the grub menu editing? |
| 11:53.34 | uio | after ro? |
| 11:53.38 | blackflow | yes |
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| 12:01.41 | uio | blackflow, No luck, I tried it both with the external monitor connected and disconnected. Nothing |
| 12:02.10 | blackflow | uio: so anyway, there's a number of options for you to try: xrandr, xorg.conf and kernel command line. see different approaches by googling for "xorg disable external vga output". the suggestions I gave above are a summary of some of those approaches. not sure how else I can help with it. |
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| 12:03.11 | uio | blackflow, Okay thanks, but in my opinion the issue is not disabling the VGA output, but rather actually getting the laptop display to ... display. |
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| 12:05.45 | blackflow | uio: then instead of disabling look into forcing the config, perhaps coercing xorg.conf is your best bet. |
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| 12:06.56 | uio | I love installs that take 5 hours. |
| 12:07.10 | blackflow | you haven't tried gentoo then :) |
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| 12:07.54 | uio | blackflow, lol, but seriously, it's super annoying to have to lose a day of your life every time you want to install Debian. |
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| 12:08.48 | blackflow | "every time"? |
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| 12:09.00 | blackflow | every time I installed debian it was a super smooth ride of several minutes. |
| 12:09.03 | uio | blackflow, Yeah, last time I had firmware issues and so on. |
| 12:09.30 | uio | Even puppy has worked on this machine! |
| 12:09.38 | blackflow | perhaps you just need a distro that's better preconfigured and for wider range of consumer devices. |
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| 12:10.14 | blackflow | one that's not shy about carrying nonfree software which is apparently needed for some devices. |
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| 12:10.27 | uio | I dunno, I'm starting to think that Debian is just too niche for people who can't / won't spend weekends to get a useable machine. |
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| 12:12.11 | uio | could firmware-linux-nonfree help me? |
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| 12:16.22 | blackflow | uio: I don't know, sorry. |
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| 12:21.11 | DammitJim | ifconfig and ifupdown are 2 totally different things, right? |
| 12:21.19 | DammitJim | it seems wicd uses ifconfig |
| 12:21.19 | blackflow | DammitJim: yup |
| 12:21.25 | DammitJim | but buster uses ifupdown |
| 12:21.29 | blackflow | ifconfig is deprecated, use ip |
| 12:21.51 | blackflow | ifupdown is a framework |
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| 12:24.34 | blackflow | DammitJim: ifconfig/ip are commands/tools for configuring the network. ifupdown is a whole framework for persistent (across reboot) network configuration. I think it's actually using ip in the background |
| 12:25.01 | blackflow | (and other things for routing, dns, bonding, bridging, ...) |
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| 12:27.17 | DammitJim | oh |
| 12:27.31 | DammitJim | man, I guess I'm going to have to use network manager |
| 12:27.32 | DammitJim | *sigh* |
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| 12:28.25 | blackflow | DammitJim: what's the problem, Jim? |
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| 12:28.48 | ayekat | also, wicd is a network management framework (like NetworkManager, ifupdown, systemd-networkd), while buster is a debian release name |
| 12:28.59 | blackflow | that too :) |
| 12:29.08 | DammitJim | I was just saying that I'm having the issue in buster |
| 12:29.19 | DammitJim | (didn't have the issue with stretch) |
| 12:29.24 | DammitJim | or jessie |
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| 12:29.26 | blackflow | no you didn't, you asked what the difference was. what's the issue? |
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| 12:31.31 | DammitJim | when wicd tries to connect to the wired network, it goes through this: |
| 12:31.36 | DammitJim | (trying to pastebin) |
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| 12:34.23 | jelly | I thought DammitJim wasn't Jim but McCoy |
| 12:34.42 | dvs | or Bones |
| 12:34.54 | blackflow | Bones = McCoy. |
| 12:35.22 | jelly | yes |
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| 12:35.29 | blackflow | Dammit, Jim, I'm just a doctor! is what (Jim) Kirk would say to Bones. |
| 12:35.39 | jelly | no |
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| 12:35.49 | blackflow | oh the other way around. hahaha |
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| 12:35.51 | blackflow | I'm on the phone |
| 12:35.59 | jelly | I'm on a horse! |
| 12:36.19 | blackflow | the animal, I hpe |
| 12:36.21 | jelly | wait, this isn't #debian-offtopic |
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| 12:41.26 | dvs | *crickets* |
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| 12:43.43 | DammitJim | https://paste.debian.net/1089487/ |
| 12:43.53 | DammitJim | ok, that's what I saw |
| 12:44.10 | CrazyTux | which DE would you recommend for a newbie who has been using Windows 10? |
| 12:44.12 | DammitJim | then when I enabled debug, it said: 2019/06/26 16:54:43 :: ifconfig bond0 |
| 12:44.17 | DammitJim | that's why I started asking about ifconfig |
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| 12:45.26 | blackflow | DammitJim: and the issue is? |
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| 12:45.40 | DammitJim | if I do: ifup bond0, I do get an IP address |
| 12:45.42 | blackflow | (btw the pastebin you linked has no mention of ifconfig) |
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| 12:46.17 | blackflow | ah you mean there's no dhcp offer received, in that output |
| 12:46.20 | CrazyTux | which DE would you recommend for a newbie who has been using Windows 10? |
| 12:46.29 | DammitJim | correct... ifconfig shows up later (not necessarily when trying to connect) |
| 12:46.43 | DammitJim | yes blackflow ... sorry... I could explain things a little better |
| 12:47.03 | blackflow | DammitJim: so what's your /etc/network/interfaces config, and what's your wicd config? |
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| 12:47.38 | blackflow | CrazyTux: that's one of those things whre if you ask a 100 people, you'd get 127 answers. |
| 12:47.57 | ayekat | throws in 5 |
| 12:48.03 | CrazyTux | blackflow: what is your suggestion? |
| 12:48.05 | blackflow | CrazyTux: but I'll say when I switched from win to linux many orbits ago, I found KDE very familiar and easy to use. |
| 12:48.19 | DammitJim | blackflow, which config do you want to see for wicd, there are multiple files |
| 12:48.24 | CrazyTux | blackflow: ok |
| 12:48.45 | blackflow | DammitJim: the one where you've set up the bond and configured it for dhcp? |
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| 12:49.30 | DammitJim | https://paste.debian.net/1089488/ |
| 12:49.33 | Psi-Jack | Ugh, it's CrazyTux again. Asking 50-million questions. Again. |
| 12:49.45 | blackflow | CrazyTux: and if you want a lightweight (easy on memory and cpu, but also on features) one, xfce is very popular. |
| 12:50.25 | CrazyTux | which one would be easier for a Windows 10 user? |
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| 12:52.22 | blackflow | DammitJim: I'm not very familiar with wicd but that config doesn't look complete to me, ie. there's no definition of the bond, so perhaps that's why you have the issue you have. question is, why would you use wicd for wired? just set up /etc/network/interfaces that you obviously already have, that obviously works, and all is done. |
| 12:52.22 | ayekat | CrazyTux: what is your goal, actually? I see you've been asking question about "which DE/distro/setup is better" since at least january this year |
| 12:52.40 | Psi-Jack | ayekat: He's been doing this for 3~5 years now. |
| 12:52.43 | Psi-Jack | The same pattern. |
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| 12:52.46 | blackflow | ohlol |
| 12:52.48 | DammitJim | blackflow, bond0 is defined in the last file |
| 12:52.51 | CrazyTux | ayekat: need to install a linux distro for a newbie |
| 12:53.23 | DammitJim | I need something to manage the wireless networks, which wicd does |
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| 12:53.39 | blackflow | DammitJim: you mean by "wired_interface = bond0"? |
| 12:54.00 | DammitJim | but then when I come to the office where there is wired and wireless, I'd like to use wired and not wireless and since wicd doesn't get an IP for wired, it puts me in the wireless network |
| 12:54.00 | blackflow | DammitJim: you can use wicd for wireless, doesn't conflict with eth0 being managed by ifupdown |
| 12:54.20 | blackflow | or in your case bond0 |
| 12:54.33 | DammitJim | blackflow, bond0 doesn't come up unless I manually run ifdown bond0 && ifup bond0 |
| 12:55.00 | DammitJim | btw, I appreciate the help... the wicd channel is almost dead |
| 12:55.07 | blackflow | wicd is (almost) dead. |
| 12:55.10 | DammitJim | and I know this might not be an actual debian issue |
| 12:55.46 | DammitJim | then I used connman and that was getting 2 IP addresses for bond0 |
| 12:56.17 | DammitJim | meaning, I tried using connman and that wasn't working either |
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| 12:56.34 | blackflow | DammitJim: I'm not sure (not too familiar with bonding) but I think that's because of bond-mode active-backup |
| 12:57.44 | DammitJim | but I only have 1 interface connected in the bond |
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| 12:58.53 | blackflow | DammitJim: then what's the bond for? but what I was aiming at is that perhaps you'd have to be more explicit on which one is master, in active-backup mode. see examples here: https://wiki.debian.org/Bonding |
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| 13:00.15 | DammitJim | thanks blackflow ... I'll have to take a look at this later |
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| 13:00.24 | DammitJim | but all good points |
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| 13:07.16 | muAdmDev | my default gateway is bound to eth1, if this gateway is not reachable, i'd like to switch to another gateway on eth0. any recommendations, maybe using post-up/down? interfaces currently configured as "auto eth0" and "auto eth1", if allow-hotplug would be better |
| 13:08.25 | muAdmDev | also covering both erros (link down or default gateway not reachable) would be nice |
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| 13:26.22 | trackanddirt | I've read the docs and googled the heck out of this but I am running into issues with keepalived in strech. It will show that it calls on a script but it never executes it. I can run the scripts manually so I know they work. Any Ideas? I have tried changing permissions and still no go. any ideas? |
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| 13:52.42 | uio | Even with firmware-linux-nonfree Debian is incapble of working on an eeepc. |
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| 13:53.22 | uio | Any ideas on why the poor hardware support here? |
| 13:53.26 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC didn't help? |
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| 13:55.32 | uio | greycat, Nope. It's outdated and doesn't explain why the laptop display won't work. |
| 13:56.17 | humpled | so, to sum up |
| 13:56.21 | uio | Antix can do it. Lubuntu can do it. Hell, even Puppy can. Debian can't. |
| 13:57.31 | humpled | sounds like one of those might be good for you then |
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| 13:58.21 | uio | Guess so. I mean every distro has its strong and weak points. Kinda unfortunate that 'working' is a weak point for Debian. |
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| 14:00.11 | humpled | we don't know which antix, which ubuntu, which puppy, which debian, which eepc |
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| 14:01.00 | greycat | He clearly didn't come here to ask for help. He came here to announce that he has given up. If he actually wanted help, he would have provided enough *fundamental* background information to even identify what the problem is. |
| 14:01.52 | trackanddirt | greycat: Not to be a pain but did you see my post? |
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| 14:02.41 | greycat | Lastlog: |
| 14:02.41 | greycat | 09:43 CoolSkeleton95 jasperarcola PaleGreenMoon trackanddirt |
| 14:02.41 | greycat | 10:01 trackanddirt> greycat: Not to be a pain but did you see my post? |
| 14:02.46 | uio | greycat, I'm prepared to provide information if someone thinks ther's a solution. |
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| 14:03.23 | uio | greycat, I've only been at this for seven hours. So I don't know if 'give up' is accurate. |
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| 14:03.54 | iulian_ | uio, they patch their kernels |
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| 14:04.13 | trackanddirt | greycat: what does that mean? |
| 14:04.34 | uio | iulian_, Seems to be a good idea then. |
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| 14:04.46 | greycat | Imagine you're sitting in IRC and out of the blue someone says "trackanddirt: did you see my post?" What do you do first? |
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| 14:05.44 | trackanddirt | scroll up, I posted right before uio. But I'll repeat since the answer is obviously no |
| 14:06.08 | greycat | Imagine you're not an IRC newbie. What you do first is type "/lastlog thatperson" to see all of the things thatperson has said. |
| 14:06.23 | greycat | I showed the result of /lastlog trackanddirt |
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| 14:07.17 | jelly | I do /lastlog jelly to see everywhere I was highlighted |
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| 14:07.33 | trackanddirt | I am using keepalived and although service status is showing that it runs my scripts during state changes, it does not seem to actually execute them. I know they work since I can run them manually. And I am a newbie, so thanks for that shortcut. |
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| 14:10.21 | uio | greycat, Try out your cool user search command for the funamental infos. |
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| 14:10.48 | greycat | It only shows things I've actually *received* since I got here. Not stuff that happened 7 hours before I joined. |
| 14:11.28 | trackanddirt | greycat: either way I would apprechiate any help. |
| 14:12.14 | greycat | I know zero about "LVS" which is what the description for keepalived talks about, and I've never heard of LVS or keepalived before. |
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| 14:12.40 | greycat | That's why you don't pick a random person in the channel and ask that one person for help. You ask the whole channel instead. |
| 14:12.52 | iulian_ | uio, in /etc/default/grub comment these 2 lines https://pastebin.com/0AmbMcaF |
| 14:13.05 | uio | greycat, Oh, I see. You don't have the info. Okay. I did put it on for users like jelly who were here, but can add info again. That would indeed be useful. Okay - did a fresh Debian 9 install on an Asus eeepc Flare series. After disk unlock (LUKS) when the text resizes the screen goes black and is dead. But the external monitor works pefectly. |
| 14:13.53 | trackanddirt | Fair enough |
| 14:14.09 | trackanddirt | If anyone could give me input that would be nice |
| 14:15.23 | Tenkawa | brb |
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| 14:15.59 | colo-work | uio, maybe try buster and check if the problem is solved with that release |
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| 14:16.42 | greycat | Also make sure you install from a non-free-firmware installer. The fact that you had to add some firmware package(s) manually means you didn't. |
| 14:17.03 | Tenkawa | wow this machine still surprises me at how fast it is |
| 14:17.24 | greycat | With a laptop, you almost always need some non-free firmware. With a laptop line that is *notorious* for being a problem like the eee pc, I can't imagine even bothering to try without it. |
| 14:17.55 | uio | iulian_, GRUB_GFXMODE=yours native resolution is already commented. GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=keep isn't even there. |
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| 14:18.49 | uio | greycat, I added the nonfree and contrib sources and did sudo apt install firmware-linux-nonfree... |
| 14:19.16 | uio | colo-work, I'll probably just go to Lubuntu before I do that, but thanks for the idea. |
| 14:19.30 | iulian_ | uio well, try it and check it is really your native resolution, something like 1024x600 |
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| 14:20.24 | uio | iulian_, It's listing 640Ã480 |
| 14:20.57 | greycat | http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ |
| 14:21.07 | greycat | (yes it takes that long to find it) |
| 14:21.15 | iulian_ | uio, GRUB_GFXMODE=640x480 |
| 14:21.16 | Tenkawa | uio: after you added the sources did you apt-get update before install? |
| 14:21.52 | iulian_ | uio, and GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=keep |
| 14:22.04 | uio | Tenkawa, Yes. |
| 14:22.08 | uio | iulian_, Will try. |
| 14:22.14 | Tenkawa | ok just making sure |
| 14:22.20 | uio | iulian_, But you mean UNcomment, no? |
| 14:22.21 | iulian_ | without keep it cant handle your resolution |
| 14:23.56 | iulian_ | uio, yeah |
| 14:23.58 | uio | iulian_, So I removed the # from the resolution line and added the payload line under it. |
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| 14:25.02 | iulian_ | uio, yeah |
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| 14:26.42 | uio | iulian_, No luck. |
| 14:26.55 | Prolok0 | hi |
| 14:28.15 | uio | Well, still nothing. I used the offical .iso from the Debian website. Can I add all the non-free stuff afterwards? |
| 14:28.27 | uio | besides the packages I've already added? |
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| 14:30.02 | somiaj | uio: do we know what hardware you have? Have you tried busters install image? |
| 14:30.15 | greycat | dpkg, no, firmware images is <reply>Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from <http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/>. Follow the current/ link for stable, daily-builds/ or weekly-builds/ for testing. |
| 14:30.16 | dpkg | okay, greycat |
| 14:30.32 | uio | somiaj, eeepc Asus. |
| 14:31.27 | somiaj | usually one needs the actual chipsets of the hardware in question. |
| 14:31.50 | greycat | If you can't even get stretch to boot into the text console, I would try the buster NON-FREE rc2 installer (just came out yesterday), and if that doesn't work, either give up, or give MUCH more details when asking for help. |
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| 14:32.46 | somiaj | looking at the backlog, seems one would need to know the graphics card chipset. |
| 14:33.40 | uio | *MANY |
| 14:33.49 | iulian_ | uio,its 640x480 yours native resolution ? |
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| 14:36.59 | uio | greycat, But why will it display with the external moniter? And why can't I just add non-free packages after? |
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| 14:37.43 | greycat | I have no idea. I'm just giving general advice that *I* would start with if I had to work on the world most notoriously finicky and unpredictable laptop line. |
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| 14:38.36 | greycat | If you actually want help, you start with statements like "I'm using an eeepc model number ___ and here's where I've uploaded the lspci -nn output ____" |
| 14:38.45 | humpled | VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Atom Processor D2xxx/N2xxx Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0be2] (rev 09) |
| 14:38.57 | greycat | Atoms. Ugh. |
| 14:39.00 | uio | greycat, The problem isn't the hardware (other distros run on it just fine). |
| 14:39.29 | uio | greycat, And not everyone knows exactly what information to give all the time, one does their best! |
| 14:39.42 | greycat | Then maybe you want to use a kernel package from one of those other systems. |
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| 14:40.30 | uio | greycat, Yeah, I think I'll just use a better distro. |
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| 14:41.37 | humpled | google seems to think that gma500_gfx should be blacklisted |
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| 14:41.50 | humpled | https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2073727 |
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| 14:47.21 | edgardoj | Hi what's up does anyone here has experience with using debian as a development for a web app? |
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| 14:49.55 | jordanm | !ask |
| 14:49.55 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 14:50.32 | greycat | IRC isn't a great medium for questions to which the answer is a 30-page essay. |
| 14:50.34 | humpled | "a web app" |
| 14:50.50 | greycat | "How to develop web applications with Debian" could be an entire book. |
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| 14:52.38 | uio | jordanm, Don't mind them. |
| 14:53.28 | jordanm | greycat: and an entire career |
| 14:54.15 | greycat | edgardoj: you need to ask something more specific. |
| 14:54.18 | humpled | hopefully they already asked in a more relevant channel |
| 14:54.32 | edgardoj | I already asked on django-cms |
| 14:55.05 | edgardoj | I do not want a 30 page essay, just some links where to get direction |
| 14:55.07 | edgardoj | :( |
| 14:55.49 | edgardoj | I am between django-cms and mezzanine |
| 14:56.51 | edgardoj | I just want to start out with a news scraper and go from there, have some django/react boilerplates but read somewhere they are not good for SEO |
| 14:56.55 | jeddi | django's pretty heavy duty - if you know python then look at flask or pyramid first. |
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| 14:57.33 | jordanm | jeddi: I think they want a CMS, not to develop a django site from scratch |
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| 15:00.45 | somiaj | edgardoj: nice thing about debian is it is a frozen system, so if you develop a webapp on it, it should be easy to deploy (and one should often develop webapps on the system they plan to host them on). You may also want to consider how often you need to update your webapp. Debian stable has about 3 years of support (and up to 5 once you include LTS support). |
| 15:00.55 | jeddi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:01.31 | edgardoj | https://edgarbokeh.herokuapp.com/ <-- I built this with flask. I am more intrested in the CMS right now, esp if I can hack it and somehow code the scarper and integrate it |
| 15:01.32 | jordanm | yes, they just listed two of them |
| 15:01.50 | edgardoj | Tha'ts why I choose debian over windows for this kind of stuff I am using a virtual machine with debian 9 |
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| 15:06.05 | Logg | i'm updating to debian buster before official release and no one can stop me |
| 15:06.44 | colo-work | I guess your ISP could |
| 15:06.49 | Logg | oh no |
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| 15:08.50 | petn-randall | TBF, nobody every stopped you ever since the testing branch was named buster. |
| 15:08.56 | petn-randall | s/every/ever/ |
| 15:09.54 | greycat | We're always glad to have more people testing it before release. |
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| 15:10.11 | Logg | yes. the coolest changelog message was that i should do "su -" instead of "su" from now on |
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| 15:10.25 | blackflow | I've been using busterino since soft freeze |
| 15:10.33 | greycat | Logg: that's one possible answer |
| 15:11.35 | greycat | for me, it's simply the last nail in su's coffin, and reason enough to drop it entirely and use sudo for everything (sudo -s if you want a shell, sudo -i if you want a login shell, sudo vi foo if you don't want a shell at all) |
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| 15:13.33 | Logg | yeah, I've been doing "sudo -i" usually, but, in a new debian install with standard user, you don't get your user in the sudoers file, so you have to "su" at least once, unless you can toggle a box to put yourself in /etc/sudoers now |
| 15:14.01 | Logg | good for systems without sudo |
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| 15:16.28 | blackflow | or you can logout/login as root and usermod yourself into %sudo |
| 15:16.51 | Logg | oh true you can just switch to tty lol |
| 15:17.21 | blackflow | nah, you'd still have to logout your user, or do newgrp tricks |
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| 15:17.46 | blackflow | oh switch to tty... yes... you people with your GUIs... :) |
| 15:18.01 | slax0r | what's that? |
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| 15:23.56 | lolcat-007 | hello so that is the actual stable version of debian |
| 15:23.57 | lolcat-007 | ?? |
| 15:24.06 | Logg | it's still stretch until July 6th-ish |
| 15:24.06 | greycat | Stretch (Debian 9) currently. |
| 15:24.11 | lolcat-007 | what is the actual stable version of debian |
| 15:24.12 | lolcat-007 | ??? |
| 15:24.26 | Logg | It's still stretch until July 6th-ish |
| 15:25.03 | lolcat-007 | ok and what kernel version does debian stretch use |
| 15:25.04 | lolcat-007 | ?? |
| 15:25.17 | Logg | 4.9, but you can get 4.19 from backports |
| 15:25.19 | jelly | lolcat-007: 4.9.x and there's 4.19.x available if you need it |
| 15:25.36 | jelly | !enter |
| 15:25.36 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 15:25.54 | BCMM | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 15:25.55 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u5; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u7; stretch-backports: 4.19+105~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105; sid: 4.19+105 |
| 15:26.13 | jelly | the question marks can be put at the end of each question, they don't have to be on their own lines and one is usually enough! |
| 15:26.25 | edgardoj | Problem with cli is that you need to log everything if you want to know what are you doing. Nowadays is ctrc+C ctrl+V on notepad for all of the website and cheat sheets. |
| 15:26.46 | Logg | pastebinit is a cool package edgardoj |
| 15:26.58 | lolcat-007 | jelly: so after july 6th what will be the latest stable version of debian |
| 15:26.59 | lolcat-007 | ??? |
| 15:27.07 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 15:27.11 | Logg | lol |
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| 15:27.17 | blackflow | well.... lolcat. :) |
| 15:27.18 | jelly | edgardoj: there are personal wikis, and there are simple logging tools for shell like the "script" command |
| 15:27.19 | greycat | !buster release |
| 15:27.19 | dpkg | Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html). Celebrate by attending, or hosting, a buster release party: https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBuster |
| 15:27.21 | horribleprogram | Why the top and ps commands differ so much from Debian/BSD ? |
| 15:27.24 | BCMM | lolcat-007: Debian 10 "Buster" |
| 15:27.49 | greycat | horribleprogram: because they are different operating systems. Welcome to the diverse and often confusing world of unix. |
| 15:27.55 | horribleprogram | greycat: yup |
| 15:28.11 | edgardoj | I am thinking about pastebinning my processes like install debian > then install openbox > then install x, y and z. I know there is plenty of 'perfect desktops' out there but it's good to keep track of what you do |
| 15:28.12 | horribleprogram | greycat: learning two sets of syntaxes for top and ps for my macOS and Debian |
| 15:28.39 | jelly | horribleprogram: which version of Debian/kFreeBSD do you have? |
| 15:28.39 | blackflow | horribleprogram: use only Debian so you'll only have to learn one. |
| 15:28.56 | BCMM | horribleprogram: they are separate implementations. many of the common `ps` options aren't actually specified by POSIX |
| 15:28.58 | jelly | or did you mean Debian vs. a BSD |
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| 15:29.28 | BCMM | i'm not sure of top is specified by posix at all, so it might as well be considered an entirely separate program that happens to have the same name and purpose |
| 15:29.35 | horribleprogram | jelly: Stretch, and I meant Debian and BSD have different implementations of those two commands |
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| 15:29.45 | lolcat-007 | BCMM: ok i want to know if my dell inspiron 5566 will have support on debian 10 i mean bluetooth support and everything else |
| 15:29.46 | lolcat-007 | ?? |
| 15:29.50 | jelly | horribleprogram: Linux ps inherits and can mix incompatible syntax from both System V UNIX ps and BSD ps |
| 15:30.04 | horribleprogram | jelly: yup, very confusing |
| 15:30.06 | jelly | horribleprogram: I bet "ps aux" works on both OSX and Debian |
| 15:30.09 | BCMM | lolcat-007: if it's working on stretch, it'll work on buster, basically |
| 15:30.12 | horribleprogram | it does |
| 15:30.24 | BCMM | lolcat-007: what are you using at the moment? |
| 15:31.04 | jelly | horribleprogram: many Linux tools are bastardized reimplementations of their predecessors from old, dead unices |
| 15:31.05 | BCMM | horribleprogram: most simple shell commands have separate implementations on *bsd and debian (or any linux distro, for that matter) |
| 15:31.28 | BCMM | horribleprogram: typical linux distros use GPL components like gnu coreutils and util-linux |
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| 15:31.32 | greycat | stretch to buster seems like it's not going to be a disruptive upgrade for most people, other than the changes to the su command |
| 15:31.33 | BCMM | bsd doesn't want those for licensing reasons |
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| 15:31.48 | horribleprogram | BCMM: well you can install them |
| 15:31.49 | BCMM | (and at the time they were first developed, bsd wasn't as liberally licensed as it is now) |
| 15:32.07 | lolcat-007 | BCMM: right now im using ubuntu 18.04 bionic because i tried debian stretch like a years ago and i didnt have bluetooth support on my dell that is why i asking now |
| 15:32.11 | BCMM | horribleprogram: from ports, sure. but they don't want them as a core part of the system, due to the licensing. |
| 15:32.23 | horribleprogram | yup |
| 15:32.38 | BCMM | lolcat-007: if bluetooth worked in ubuntu but not in debian, that's probably just because your bluetooth adaptor requires proprietary firmware |
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| 15:33.01 | BCMM | lolcat-007: and debian won't install any proprietary software unless you explicitly tell it to, by enabling non-free |
| 15:33.10 | BCMM | !non-free |
| 15:33.10 | dpkg | [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. |
| 15:33.46 | BCMM | (i should probably have invoked the "non-free sources" factoid, but i don't wanna spam the channel by fixing it) |
| 15:34.37 | BCMM | lolcat-007: but basically, enable non-free software, then `apt install firmware-linux-nonfree`, and your bluetooth ought to work |
| 15:35.06 | BCMM | (if you need non-free firmware during installation, e.g. for a wifi adapter, there are special installer ISOs for that) |
| 15:35.59 | lolcat-007 | BCMM: ok i understands but that part of proprietary firmware i dont get it excuse me i new in linux |
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| 15:36.29 | uio | lolcat-007, I you want things to work, I suggest something other than Debian... |
| 15:36.35 | greycat | lolcat-007: rule of thumb, if it's a laptop, you probably want the non-free installer |
| 15:36.40 | BCMM | lolcat-007: i disagree with uio= |
| 15:36.59 | greycat | uio has an ongoing issue with an eeepc laptop |
| 15:37.00 | BCMM | lolcat-007: by default, debian only includes "free software" - software you are free to copy and modify as much as you want |
| 15:37.08 | jelly | greycat: I've had about 3-4 apt breakages, it was more painful than jessie->stretch |
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| 15:37.51 | BCMM | lolcat-007: "firmware" is the software that runs on the microcontroller inside your bluetooth adaptor. it is distinct from the driver, which runs on your CPU and communicates with the firmware |
| 15:38.19 | lolcat-007 | BCMM: ok i get it so the proprietary firmware are also free to use or i have to paid i belive gnu/linux is free to use right??? |
| 15:38.44 | uio | lolcat-007, Generally speaking, Debian is not best for newer users. It might work, but it will likely take much more time. |
| 15:38.59 | BCMM | lolcat-007: they are available free-of-charge. you just don't necessarily have the right to modify them, and there may be restrictions on how you are allowed to copy them, etc. |
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| 15:39.03 | jelly | lolcat-007: yes it's free to use. It just has different licensing. |
| 15:39.18 | BCMM | lolcat-007: the firmware comes in the form of a file provided by the manufacturer, which has to be sent to the bluetooth device every time it powers up. on windows, the firmware would be bundled with the driver. |
| 15:40.45 | BCMM | lolcat-007: but the manufacturer doesn't provide any details on how they actually made that file, so if you ever wanted to modify it, you're out luck. it isn't allowed to be part of the main debian archive because debian developers and users aren't allowed to fix it if it's broken. |
| 15:41.03 | uio | BCMM, Have you ever wanted to modify firmware? |
| 15:41.40 | BCMM | uio: not personally, no. but if there was a security problem with a wireless chipset, for example, we would just be stuck hoping that the manufacturer fixes it |
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| 15:41.52 | uio | BCMM, Good point. |
| 15:42.02 | BCMM | as a practical matter, debian can't truly "support" non-free software |
| 15:42.04 | jelly | uio: almost all devices older than 2 years or so with bluetooth support have exploitable bugs. |
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| 15:42.14 | BCMM | uio: (also, debian does kind of have a mission of promoting the use of free software) |
| 15:42.29 | somiaj | maybe just point lolcat-007 at https://www.debian.org/social_contract |
| 15:42.34 | jelly | uio: if bt firmware was open and replaceable, someone other than the vendor might have been able to fix it |
| 15:42.38 | uio | BCMM, True. |
| 15:42.38 | blackflow | wifi too, don't forget the KRACK attack |
| 15:42.48 | jelly | blackflow: that was just an example |
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| 15:43.34 | BCMM | of course, the really frightening thing is all the firmware that *isn't* visible, because it's stored in a ROM inside your computer, not shipped as a binary blob with the driver software... |
| 15:43.44 | lolcat-007 | BCMM: ok now i understand so what i have to do in order to make the bluetooth work on debian is remove those bluetooth default driver and install the proprietary firmware that is right??? |
| 15:43.53 | BCMM | like vulnerabilities in the actual USB controller, for god's sake... |
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| 15:44.01 | BCMM | lolcat-007: you don't need to remove any driver |
| 15:44.17 | BCMM | lolcat-007: the *driver* is probably Free software. you just need the firmware file. |
| 15:44.17 | uio | I'm kinda sad, but I must admit that I'm in the process of installing Lubuntu on the eeePC. I just couldn't afford to spend another day trying to get Debian to work. Alas. I still have Debian on my Thinkpas X61. |
| 15:44.29 | jelly | lolcat-007: negative. You use default driver, AND the non-free firmware. |
| 15:44.48 | BCMM | lolcat-007: (if you want to check this, you can look at the output of `dmesg`. you will probably see the driver load, complain that it can't find any firmware, and then exit.) |
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| 15:44.53 | jelly | uio: that's just fine, use what works. |
| 15:45.13 | uio | jelly, Yeah, I mean at least it's based on Debian I guess. |
| 15:45.17 | blackflow | uio: and don't forget taht's teh last lubuntu you'll be putting there. they've dropped 32bit installers. |
| 15:45.21 | BCMM | lolcat-007: just add non-free to your sources, do `apt update`, do `apt install firmware-linux-nonfree`, and reboot |
| 15:45.25 | jelly | cousin twice removed |
| 15:45.34 | uio | jelly, lol. |
| 15:45.48 | uio | blackflow, What!!! |
| 15:45.49 | lolcat-007 | BCMM: ok like i said before i new in linux so that will be kind of advance users but i will give it a try and maybe you guys can help me with that right?? |
| 15:45.54 | blackflow | so they can have sex? :) lubunu linux debian edition |
| 15:46.01 | jelly | blackflow: N2600 has 64bit support |
| 15:46.09 | blackflow | oh cool then |
| 15:46.14 | BCMM | lolcat-007: well, i'm logging off now. but i'm sure people here can help you enable non-free |
| 15:46.21 | greycat | !firmware images |
| 15:46.21 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from <http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/>. Follow the current/ link for stable, daily-builds/ or weekly-builds/ for testing. |
| 15:46.27 | greycat | If you have a laptop, just install with one of those. |
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| 15:46.35 | jelly | no idea if the BIOS disables x86_64 support, tho |
| 15:46.52 | BCMM | lolcat-007: (they might help more willingly if you can limit the number of question marks at the end of any single question somewhat, though) |
| 15:47.03 | blackflow | worth checking out, because if it doesn't, then lubuntu 18.04 is the last one supported. |
| 15:47.09 | friendofafriend | I'm running Buster, I see no /etc/rc.local. I want a command to run once. I'd like to avoid getting Poettering'd as much as I can. What should I do? |
| 15:47.19 | BCMM | greycat: do those images automatically add non-free to the installed system's sources.list, by the way? |
| 15:47.20 | greycat | !rc.local |
| 15:47.20 | dpkg | /etc/rc.local may be used to run simple commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in stretch you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang> and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd> |
| 15:47.22 | jelly | blackflow: supported until 2023 |
| 15:47.26 | uio | blackflow, For another two years. |
| 15:47.31 | blackflow | yeah |
| 15:47.34 | BCMM | greycat: or do they just provide firmware for use during the actual installation? |
| 15:47.38 | friendofafriend | !thanks greycat |
| 15:47.38 | dpkg | sure thing, friendofafriend |
| 15:47.55 | greycat | BCMM: not sure. I don't laptop. |
| 15:47.56 | jelly | BCMM: fw included. |
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| 15:48.19 | uio | greycat, What do you use for travel? |
| 15:48.23 | jelly | but I think non-free or contrib is NOT added to repos |
| 15:48.46 | greycat | If I'm traveling, I won't have access to a computer, typically. |
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| 15:49.09 | uio | greycat, Or, a conference, or a meeting or some such? Classes? |
| 15:49.15 | somiaj | uio: sometimes seeing why something works on another distro can help get debian to work, you could also do a debootstrap install if it is just the installer causing problems. |
| 15:50.27 | uio | somiaj, The distro worked beautifully... just the screen wouldn't work. Had to use an external monitor. But that issue could'nt be solved without some other non free testing other cd stuff. So I just decided that life is short and downloaded Lubuntu. |
| 15:51.35 | uio | somiaj, That would be funny : Debian leads to Ubuntu which fixes Debian! |
| 15:51.57 | uio | Anyway enough of all that! |
| 15:51.57 | iulian_ | uio, there are plenty out of tutorials how to edit this file |
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| 15:52.19 | uio | I tried for 7.5 hours. |
| 15:52.34 | jelly | iulian_: they spent two days on this |
| 15:53.15 | uio | lol, but maybe Lubuntu will have the same issue... |
| 15:53.18 | iulian_ | uio and after editing it don't forget to run sudo update-grub |
| 15:53.25 | jelly | not saying we're already sick of hearing about it but... |
| 15:53.37 | uio | jelly, lol |
| 15:53.52 | uio | jelly, What's the longest lasting problem? |
| 15:54.03 | uio | Sorry, off-topic... |
| 15:54.32 | jelly | there are bugs in Debian's bug tracking system opened more than a decade ago |
| 15:54.45 | uio | lol |
| 15:54.55 | uio | slow and steady. |
| 15:55.31 | lolcat-007 | greycat: ok can yoou give me a little help choosing the right image of debian 10 cause there are a lot of directory there i choose firmware-buster-DI-alpha1-amd64-dvd-1.iso that one is ok for me??? |
| 15:55.43 | greycat | you want rc2 |
| 15:55.56 | blackflow | probably means the problem is not big enough for someone to shell out enough resources (of temporal or financial persuasion) to fix it. |
| 15:56.01 | jelly | or latest weekly if rc2 is more than a month old |
| 15:56.14 | lolcat-007 | greycat: rc2?? what is that?? |
| 15:56.28 | greycat | release candidate 2 of the buster installer |
| 15:56.34 | greycat | it's on the first page |
| 15:56.39 | greycat | !firmware images |
| 15:56.39 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from <http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/>. Follow the current/ link for stable, daily-builds/ or weekly-builds/ for testing. |
| 15:57.09 | greycat | subdirectory named buster_di_rc2+nonfree/ |
| 15:57.14 | friendofafriend | I think that's https://ftp.acc.umu.se/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/buster_di_rc2+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-buster-DI-rc2-amd64-DVD-1.iso |
| 15:57.26 | jelly | ooh, that's fresh |
| 15:57.40 | uio | fresh, fresh exciting |
| 15:57.51 | jelly | and also it's: not xfce |
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| 15:58.56 | jelly | (unless xfce became default DE while I was not looking?) |
| 15:59.22 | lolcat-007 | ok thank guys but what is rc1 and rc2 and what is the difference |
| 15:59.24 | lolcat-007 | ?? |
| 15:59.42 | greycat | 11:56 greycat> release candidate 2 of the buster installer |
| 16:00.22 | jelly | oh, sorry, the contents do include xfce stuff |
| 16:00.30 | lolcat-007 | greycat: ok so buster comes with kde plasma desktop enviroment??? |
| 16:00.38 | greycat | It can, if you choose it. |
| 16:01.13 | lolcat-007 | greycat: if i choose it in the debian installer manager right |
| 16:01.14 | lolcat-007 | ?? |
| 16:01.19 | greycat | yes |
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| 16:02.02 | jelly | huh, so apparently that dvd-1 has all of: task-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-cinnamon-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-gnome-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-kde-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-lxde-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-lxqt-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-mate-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-xfce-desktop_3.53_all.deb |
| 16:02.31 | lolcat-007 | alright good, so i can start downloading debian 10 buster and installing on my system right now and i dont have to wait until july 6th?? |
| 16:02.47 | greycat | Correct. |
| 16:03.03 | uio | buster will be stable soon? |
| 16:03.14 | jelly | lolcat-007: you do not have to wait, but the system you install right now and the installer itself might have more bugs than the final release |
| 16:03.19 | friendofafriend | A few days. July 6th I think? |
| 16:03.22 | greycat | !buster release |
| 16:03.23 | dpkg | Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html). Celebrate by attending, or hosting, a buster release party: https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBuster |
| 16:03.30 | uio | cool. |
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| 16:04.04 | lolcat-007 | jelly: that is my questions |
| 16:04.17 | lolcat-007 | i should wait for the final release right |
| 16:04.19 | lolcat-007 | ? |
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| 16:06.36 | jelly | lolcat-007: or you can test it right now and send an installation report, esp. if something goes wrong |
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| 16:06.47 | jelly | your choice |
| 16:07.23 | uio | Does this mean I'll have to leave stretch soon? |
| 16:07.42 | lolcat-007 | ok |
| 16:07.44 | lolcat-007 | thank guys |
| 16:08.07 | jelly | uio: a release keeps getting security updates about a year after the next one is released |
| 16:08.16 | jelly | for* about a year |
| 16:09.18 | greycat | Stretch will receive full security support for at least 1 year (sometimes more), but reduced support which is called "LTS" for a longer period. |
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| 16:13.19 | lolcat-007 | greycat: what about debian 10 until when gonna have support? |
| 16:13.41 | jelly | lolcat-007: same. when Debian 11 is out + 1 year |
| 16:13.58 | jelly | no one knows when Debian 11 will be released. |
| 16:14.44 | somiaj | about 2-3 years, and server side support will last longer by the LTS team (up to about 5 years total) |
| 16:14.46 | jelly | and if LTS subproject keeps getting funded, Debian 10 will also enjoy a total of 5 years |
| 16:15.17 | lolcat-007 | but debian 10 is LTS |
| 16:15.18 | lolcat-007 | ?? |
| 16:15.23 | somiaj | possibly more, didn't some funding for ELTS for wheezy go trhough and it is still somewhat supported? |
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| 16:15.35 | greycat | Debian 10 will not enter the LTS support period until 1 year after Debian 11's release. |
| 16:15.37 | jelly | lolcat-007: no. Debian does not have special releases that are LTS |
| 16:15.45 | somiaj | lolcat-007: no debian 10 will move over to the LTS team after debian offically stops 1 year after bullseye is released. |
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| 16:16.23 | jelly | lolcat-007: everything from Debian 7 onwards has had some form of LTS support, but that is a separate subproject of Debian and depends on donations |
| 16:17.01 | somiaj | lolcat-007: LTS is a team of volunteers that get funding from various sources who want server side support for longer than debian provides it. |
| 16:17.07 | jelly | if donations suddenty dry out _nothing_ gets LTS |
| 16:17.11 | jelly | !lts |
| 16:17.11 | dpkg | Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <jessie-lts> and see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information. #debian-lts on irc.oftc.net. |
| 16:17.15 | lolcat-007 | ok but i can be sure i will have a least two years of debian 10 support |
| 16:17.17 | lolcat-007 | ?? |
| 16:17.47 | jelly | lolcat-007: you can be sure, if you or some other company keeps donating enough :-) |
| 16:18.07 | somiaj | and if you use debian for desktop use, that is not included in LTS (and sometimes debian stops supporting things during that year of old stable, for example jessie lost support for firefox about 6-9 months after stretches release) |
| 16:18.34 | jelly | somiaj: LTS support is not strictly limited to "server side" |
| 16:18.37 | somiaj | lolcat-007: debian will offically suport stretch for about 3 years (as both stable and one year as oldstable) |
| 16:18.47 | somiaj | arg |
| 16:18.52 | somiaj | s/stretch/buster/ |
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| 16:19.29 | lolcat-007 | ok, good to know |
| 16:19.35 | jelly | lights up some LED diodes |
| 16:20.34 | jelly | and the 2 year cadence is basically accidental |
| 16:20.56 | greycat | Debian releases are usually 2-3 years apart. |
| 16:21.15 | jelly | !release history |
| 16:21.15 | dpkg | Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17). Next: Buster. http://deb.li/it56U |
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| 16:24.04 | lolcat-007 | what about the screen touch pad i notice my laptop do and it is working in ubuntu in debian 10 will it works?? |
| 16:24.58 | jelly | lolcat-007: try it and see |
| 16:25.07 | pyfgcr | lolcat-007: that depends on the hardware |
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| 16:26.05 | lolcat-007 | alright |
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| 16:27.47 | Primer | sigh, if it works in ubuntu, it'll work in debian. it does NOT depend on the hardware |
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| 16:29.03 | pyfgcr | Primer: it will work in debian, sooner or later, but not necessarily in debian 10 after the first release |
| 16:29.32 | Primer | please. Use the correct terminology |
| 16:29.51 | Primer | It won't be 'available' in Debian, but it'll surely work if you put it there |
| 16:30.03 | Primer | getting it there is another story |
| 16:30.31 | jelly | Primer: that's not really correct; Canonical does tests on more hardware than Debian, and they easily enable non-free drivers where needed |
| 16:30.41 | pyfgcr | Primer: not sure I get the difference |
| 16:30.59 | pyfgcr | * I'm not |
| 16:31.21 | jelly | variations in versions, build options and default settings also affect OOTB experience |
| 16:31.32 | Primer | You make it sounds as if some things are mutually exclusive between debian and ubuntu. To suggest one software works in one but not the other, is simply false |
| 16:31.55 | jelly | it's hardware support we're discussing |
| 16:32.12 | Primer | yeah, and that's even less of a distinction |
| 16:32.21 | Tenkawa | Primer: what???? |
| 16:32.28 | yvyz | What the fuck |
| 16:32.35 | yvyz | Excuse my language. Apologies |
| 16:32.37 | Primer | are you serious? |
| 16:32.49 | Primer | getting hardware working is the easiest thing |
| 16:32.57 | yvyz | How much of Debian do you think is in Ubuntu? |
| 16:33.00 | jelly | Primer: okay, stay here for a couple weeks and see how many people show up with something that works on Ubuntu but fails on Debian and vice-versa |
| 16:33.02 | Tenkawa | hardware is heavily dependent on library calls and kernel code |
| 16:33.15 | Primer | jelly: been here, done that |
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| 16:33.20 | jelly | and how easy or hard it can be to make things working |
| 16:33.21 | yvyz | Do you have any idea how much work goes into getting hardware support? |
| 16:33.23 | Primer | Tenkawa: false |
| 16:33.23 | petn-randall | Primer: Seems like you're new around here. :) |
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| 16:33.30 | Primer | hardware is solely reliant on the kernel |
| 16:33.30 | Tenkawa | actually its not |
| 16:33.32 | yvyz | Primer's first day. Aww cute. |
| 16:33.50 | yvyz | Like a baby linuxer |
| 16:34.03 | Primer | Go ahead and say what you will, I'm doing some pretty advanced stuff |
| 16:34.13 | Primer | i know my shit and can back up all I say |
| 16:34.26 | jelly | just stay and help people, that's enough |
| 16:34.37 | Primer | took you guys 3 days with that one lady-whats-her-name to get her nvidia working. I stepped in and had it working in an hour. |
| 16:34.49 | yvyz | People who say stuff like "I KNOW MY SHIT I BACK IT UP ALL DAY" usually do not. |
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| 16:34.58 | Primer | yvyz: except I do |
| 16:35.22 | Primer | So go on and tell me how that library is affecting your hardware |
| 16:35.22 | Tenkawa | jelly: this is an example of someone who just wants to spout off for the sake of spouting off |
| 16:35.27 | yvyz | Ok Daniel |
| 16:35.39 | Primer | Tenkawa: I'm backing up what I'm saying |
| 16:35.41 | jelly | Tenkawa: I don't know that. |
| 16:35.46 | Primer | Let's have a retort that says otherwise |
| 16:35.53 | Primer | and we'll have a conversation about it |
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| 16:36.42 | Tenkawa | thats my point.. stop arguing and either fix whatever you all were working on or let it drop.. |
| 16:36.57 | Primer | Then stop providing false information |
| 16:37.01 | petn-randall | likes conversations that prove things with facts, instead of exchanging jabs at each other. |
| 16:37.11 | yvyz | Dude, however you cut the pie Primer... you are a dick. |
| 16:37.24 | yvyz | A meaty bearded fat one too. |
| 16:37.30 | petn-randall | yvyz: No need to throw insults in here. Last warning. |
| 16:37.41 | Primer | yvyz: yeah, that's really conducive to conversation |
| 16:37.42 | yvyz | <3 |
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| 16:38.07 | petn-randall | yvyz: Just keep the language family-friendly and on topic, thanks. |
| 16:38.20 | yvyz | No problem. |
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| 16:38.48 | pyfgcr | Primer: when you say that hardware is heavily kernel depentent => (works in ubuntu => works in debian), you are suggesting it's normal practice for debian users to install ubuntu kernel patches? |
| 16:38.57 | yvyz | I guess it just confusing when people out right suggest that Ubuntu upstreams 100% of Debian. Then assumes that all that works on Debian shall work on Ubuntu and vica versa |
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| 16:39.03 | Primer | pyfgcr: obviously not |
| 16:39.29 | yvyz | Which is a strictly incorrect statement, and displays a serious lack of knowledge of the person who said it. |
| 16:39.30 | pyfgcr | so can you please clarify to me? |
| 16:39.33 | jmcnaught | I would say that if a piece of hardware works in Ubuntu it's extremely likely it will also work in Debian. Some things might require a little effort or waiting for a backported kernel. In some cases the hardware might need a library (like mesa or xorg stuff) that might not get backported. But hardware support is the same across distros is the rule not the exception. |
| 16:39.42 | somiaj | also debian's stock kernel is often older (espcially near the end of a release cycle) and newer hardware is just not supported on it causing extra work to get it to work. |
| 16:39.52 | Primer | To say that hardware relies on the system libraries is false. |
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| 16:39.55 | Primer | This was stated. |
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| 16:40.10 | jelly | jmcnaught: except if your hw has been less than 12 months in the market :-) |
| 16:40.13 | Primer | hardware is driven by the kernel modules on the fs and some firmware, maybe |
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| 16:40.28 | Primer | that's all hardware needs |
| 16:40.42 | jmcnaught | I remember when skylake first came out it needed more than a newer kernel/firmware to work. |
| 16:40.42 | greycat | electricity, proper cooling, ... |
| 16:40.53 | petn-randall | Primer: It really depends. X11 has user space drivers for the graphics cards (xserver-xorg-video-* packages) that also need to support the graphics card for it to work sufficiently. |
| 16:40.55 | pyfgcr | jmcnaught: I mainly agree, but we were specifically tolking about tochscreens in the beginning, and there the matter is different |
| 16:40.56 | yvyz | I actually hand fed my linux. |
| 16:41.01 | Primer | jmcnaught: and what was that? |
| 16:41.03 | *** join/#debian vutral (vutral@mirbsd/special/Vutral) |
| 16:41.09 | somiaj | to get gl to work in xorg you often need a modern mesa not present in debian stable. |
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| 16:41.33 | jelly | jmcnaught: and Linux _still_ does not have power/thermal sorted out completely for SKL and newer |
| 16:41.47 | somiaj | the xserver-xorg-modesetting driver is trying to help on this front, but not all kernel modules are fully kms and compadabile with it. |
| 16:41.47 | Primer | petn-randall: all of that is ultimately driven by the kernel. You don't drive anything in userspace without a kernel. |
| 16:41.58 | Primer | somiaj: mesa gets you features, it's not driving any hardware |
| 16:42.09 | jelly | Primer: this channel covers stable mostly, and versions of software in stable will often make new hardware problematic |
| 16:42.21 | petn-randall | Primer: Sure, but even if your kernel module supports your GPU, you still need the corresponding user space drivers for X11. |
| 16:42.38 | Primer | jelly: sure, but to say that hardware is 'not supported' has to be taken with a grain of salt |
| 16:42.39 | yvyz | Also, the nvidia user space driver helps drive the kernel module and for things like how Wayland use currenty battling a lack of EGLStreams support, and xwayland has been co-opted to handle the kernel parameters... you would be compeltely incorrect in all of your statements so far. |
| 16:42.43 | jelly | Primer: just that alone makes "if it works in Ubuntu it'll work on Debian" problematic |
| 16:42.57 | Primer | it's really up to the person and what they're willing to do. for example, nvidia 430 is not "supported" on testing |
| 16:42.58 | jelly | Primer: "can be made to work" I'd accept |
| 16:43.02 | Primer | yet, I have it installed |
| 16:43.12 | petn-randall | I thought we were talking out of the box hardware support? |
| 16:43.17 | petn-randall | *about |
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| 16:43.37 | petn-randall | You can probably get Debian to run on any hardware if you're willing to put enough time in it. |
| 16:43.51 | Primer | if you're talking that, the what about all the stuff that doesn't work from the installer? |
| 16:43.51 | jelly | Primer: you're probably in the top 20% of the users here by ability to hack things up until they work |
| 16:44.03 | Primer | But will work once you get it installed? |
| 16:44.03 | somiaj | Primer: it isn't uncommon for modern gpus to require gl featuers not present in debian's stable mesa, so it is needed. |
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| 16:44.40 | somiaj | but in years here, I've seen various issues with getting a bleeding edge gpu to work in debian, more than just say kernel+firmware from backports. |
| 16:44.52 | jelly | Primer: but we strive help up to 100%, and sometimes "your hw does not work on Debian (stable)" is the only reasonable answer |
| 16:45.10 | Primer | that seems rather defeatist |
| 16:45.11 | jelly | unless you're willing to do 1:1 support |
| 16:45.14 | Primer | I ahve |
| 16:45.19 | Primer | that one nvidia person |
| 16:45.32 | Primer | You guys spent days with Lady_Aleena |
| 16:45.50 | Primer | I had her nvidia working in about an hour. |
| 16:46.03 | yvyz | Primer, Can I install Debain on an Intel Quark machine? |
| 16:46.16 | Primer | Sure, her stuff was supported, and everything we did was along the lines of doing things in apt |
| 16:46.30 | Primer | yvyz: I have no idea what that is |
| 16:46.53 | yvyz | droppeth the miceth |
| 16:47.06 | greycat | Lady_Aleena had many conceptual issues that had to be worked through, not just a single hardware support question. |
| 16:47.17 | Primer | wrong |
| 16:47.26 | Primer | well, yeah |
| 16:47.28 | Primer | she did |
| 16:47.40 | yvyz | Guys. Primer is the best helpdesk guy we have. |
| 16:47.42 | Primer | but the one thing that was the big stumbling block was fixed |
| 16:47.42 | Tenkawa | Primer: do you have to argue with everything? |
| 16:47.50 | somiaj | And often times our support points people in the right direction, and that takes longer than helping them step by step |
| 16:47.55 | Primer | Tenkawa: I corrected myself |
| 16:48.02 | Tenkawa | ok. |
| 16:49.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1517] by debhelper |
| 16:49.42 | Primer | So if someone comes here and wanted to use Debian stable, and their hardware is "not supported"...that's it? We just give up? |
| 16:49.44 | yvyz | Guys I just want to get debian to run on my Intel Quark machine. |
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| 16:50.13 | Tenkawa | yvyz: let me look up the quark on wikipedia |
| 16:50.28 | Primer | says it's x86 |
| 16:50.38 | Primer | 32 bit...try installing and let us know |
| 16:51.05 | Tenkawa | oh one of those |
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| 16:51.36 | jelly | Primer: point them to backports, or testing, or a different distro if "making it work" would result in an unsupportable mess |
| 16:51.42 | jelly | it depends |
| 16:52.19 | yvyz | I really just want to get Jessie to work on my Quark machine. |
| 16:52.27 | Tenkawa | yvyz: whoch board you got with it |
| 16:52.28 | Primer | jelly: so going to testing is acceptable. Good to know. |
| 16:52.37 | Tenkawa | since its on a few of them |
| 16:52.42 | Primer | yvyz: then install it |
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| 16:53.20 | jelly | Primer: when there's no other choice, and if user is made aware of the consequences, and they still want to go with it, sure |
| 16:53.37 | petn-randall | yvyz: I don't find the trolling part particularly benefitial for the discussion. |
| 16:54.02 | Tenkawa | the specs dont look hopeful |
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| 16:54.21 | jmcnaught | I have a touch screen on my laptop that I disabled with a udev ATTR{authorized}="0" rule. If I wanted to be able to toggle it on/off, are there any side effects from running "udevadm control -R && udevadm trigger" that I should know about, or is there another way I could do it? |
| 16:54.30 | jelly | Primer: if it takes, say, a whole newer stack of kernel/drm/mesa/xorg to drive their stuff, then picking a distro that already has it is saner |
| 16:54.45 | Primer | jelly: indeed |
| 16:54.52 | yvyz | Well, its a pretty great way of pointing out how an entire architecture bug fails to allow Jessie and really a load of linux kernels to install. petn-randall and it is clear that I would be arguing this point to someone who is crass enough to believe that linux will install on any hardware. |
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| 16:55.15 | yvyz | petn-randall: I apologize for, maybe, the unorthadox method of proving a point... but its a good point to be made. |
| 16:55.27 | Tenkawa | unless he has an x1000 model |
| 16:56.34 | jelly | yvyz: the point, in here, is to do support, or agree what we're supporting, not to prove someone right or wrong |
| 16:57.16 | yvyz | I get that, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. |
| 16:57.34 | yvyz | Forgive me for standing next to the original argument. |
| 16:57.54 | Primer | jmcnaught: I'm reloading a kernel module every time a open and close my lid. I think that should be fine. |
| 16:57.59 | Tenkawa | yvyz: did you see my post? |
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| 16:58.17 | Primer | He didn't really want to install on an intel quark |
| 16:58.22 | Tenkawa | oh |
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| 16:58.43 | Primer | It was a precious point that needed to be made |
| 16:59.28 | hmuller | I recently upgraded my BIOS with no chance of reverting. Nothing horrible has happened, but I no longer get sound output over HDMI. pavucontrol no longer shows HDMI in the configuration tab. where do I start looking? |
| 16:59.51 | Primer | hmuller: snd kernel modules |
| 17:00.18 | Primer | are what drive that hardware...maybe they're no longer being loaded? |
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| 17:00.27 | jelly | hmuller: which gpu? |
| 17:00.36 | Primer | hmuller: also, start with pulseaudio -k |
| 17:00.39 | hmuller | Primer: thx, gonna review |
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| 17:00.57 | Primer | I have 2 network sinks that often don't show until I do that |
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| 17:01.20 | hmuller | jelly: AMD 2200g APU with RX480 |
| 17:01.33 | Primer | But your HDMI sound is going to be driven by the snd_something for the hardware. lsmod | grep snd | pastebinit |
| 17:01.55 | jelly | Ryzen 3 2200G ? |
| 17:02.05 | hmuller | jelly: yes |
| 17:02.09 | jelly | hmuller: which debian release and kernel version? |
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| 17:02.52 | hmuller | jelly: been using testing, buster I think. which is 4.19 |
| 17:03.12 | rant | you may also need amd firmware if that wasnt already covered, I have a machine with an AMD SoC and it requires firmware for audio over dp/hdmi |
| 17:04.00 | Primer | he said it was working before a bios upgrade though |
| 17:04.08 | hmuller | Primer: http://paste.debian.net/1089524/ |
| 17:04.28 | hmuller | yes, that's correct. it was working properly prior to the BIOS upgrade |
| 17:04.47 | Primer | hmuller: mine has this: snd_hda_codec_hdmi |
| 17:04.50 | jelly | snd-hda-codec-hdmi not even loaded |
| 17:05.05 | hmuller | Primer, yes. I am missing that |
| 17:05.17 | Primer | so it could be that this just needs to be loaded, but I'm guessing it tried but found nothing |
| 17:05.27 | Primer | hmuller: dmesg | grep HDMI | pastebinit |
| 17:05.28 | jelly | hmuller: did the BIOS release noted mention HDCP by any chance? |
| 17:05.34 | jelly | release notes* |
| 17:05.55 | Primer | Or is there an option in the bios to control audio over HDMI? I'm not aware of any such setting. |
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| 17:06.15 | hmuller | jelly: no |
| 17:06.39 | Primer | Also, isn't the sound card a factor of ACPI? |
| 17:07.00 | hmuller | Primer: lsmod snd-hda-codec-hdmi loaded the module, goint to check sound |
| 17:07.04 | Primer | [ 0.506776] ACPI: Added _OSI(Linux-Lenovo-NV-HDMI-Audio) <-- from my laptop |
| 17:07.16 | Primer | surely you mean modprobe! |
| 17:07.23 | hmuller | lol yes |
| 17:07.30 | hmuller | typing too fast |
| 17:08.38 | jelly | Primer: that happens on my workstation at home, not a laptop at all |
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| 17:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1524] by debhelper |
| 17:09.12 | Primer | jelly: I mention it because it seems that ACPI is a factor in a lot of things in modern hardware |
| 17:09.24 | Primer | I've had to specify apci boot params to get certain hardware working |
| 17:09.55 | jelly | yes, and sometimes the firmware only enables things if you make the OS pretend to be a specific Windows generation |
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| 17:10.11 | jelly | or provides different interfaces |
| 17:10.12 | Primer | yup, apci="windows 2009" |
| 17:10.23 | Primer | is what I've been having to use. My touchpad still has issues |
| 17:10.32 | jelly | that might have been acpi.osi="Windows 2009" |
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| 17:10.54 | Primer | But I'm pretty sure I'm currently a victim of the libinput limbo we seem to be in |
| 17:11.02 | jelly | 2009 is... what, Vista? 7? |
| 17:11.27 | Primer | Has it been that long? |
| 17:11.40 | hmuller | jelly: Primer: loading the module manually did not bring joy. still no sound over HDMI (works at the sound jack thankfully) |
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| 17:12.01 | hmuller | jelly: release notes: 1. Support new Athlon 2xxGE series APU. |
| 17:12.03 | hmuller | 2. Update AMD AGESA to 0.0.7.2 |
| 17:12.23 | jelly | hmuller: if the kernel had detected something the bootup process would have loaded it automatically |
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| 17:13.11 | jelly | hmuller: you might want to ask in #alsa and be prepared to build kernel modules from source |
| 17:13.29 | hmuller | jelly: thx, that's the ticket. |
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| 17:14.24 | Primer | Isn't HDMI audio a standard though? Like the usb audio spec? |
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| 17:14.33 | Primer | Should it not Just Work� |
| 17:14.41 | jelly | bwahahaha. |
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| 17:15.37 | Primer | It's the direction things are going in. Pretty soon, drivers will be a thing of the past. |
| 17:15.51 | jelly | ok, _now_ you're trolling! |
| 17:16.12 | Primer | Why? You know how usb audio works, right? |
| 17:16.15 | yvyz | I'll take qualcomm for $200 alex. |
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| 17:16.38 | jelly | or just like using absolutes |
| 17:16.49 | Primer | There is no need for a driver as long as the hardware follows the specs |
| 17:16.54 | Primer | 'driver' |
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| 17:17.25 | Primer | obviously there is a driver, but that driver is hardware agnostic (again, as long as said hardware follows the usb audio spec) |
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| 17:17.39 | yvyz | What if I want to instal linux on my Siemens Modbus PLC? |
| 17:17.48 | Primer | Then do so |
| 17:17.59 | yvyz | WEll it should just _work_ |
| 17:18.09 | jelly | !nopony yvyz |
| 17:18.10 | dpkg | yvyz: http://www.brainfuel.tv/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/nopony.jpg |
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| 17:18.28 | yvyz | lol <3 |
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| 17:19.08 | Primer | It's a concept that it's fully grasped in many conversations I have about Linux. This gets asked all the time in #ardour: Will _so and so USB sound card_ work in Linux? |
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| 17:19.20 | Primer | the answer is: as long as it follows the usb audio specification |
| 17:19.57 | Primer | The only 'driver' you'll need is snd_usb_audio |
| 17:20.18 | Primer | You will never need a driver that is specific to that one model of sound card. This is my point. |
| 17:20.19 | yvyz | You'd be great in #freebsd |
| 17:20.49 | Primer | I'm sure you are |
| 17:21.20 | mutante | i guess as long as stuff that isn't following the specs also works on Windows people are not going to care about specs.. they will just ask why it doesn't work here when it can "just work" there |
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| 17:21.57 | Primer | well, if you purchase such a device, that's your problem |
| 17:22.00 | mutante | it's an uphill battle to explain about why that is working even though it's not following specs |
| 17:22.14 | Primer | All you have to do is purchase a device that meets the specs. Most (all?) do |
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| 17:22.52 | Primer | So it's not that big of a leap to think about standard interfaces to things like...m2 |
| 17:23.05 | Primer | and having an audio spec for it |
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| 17:23.58 | Primer | Then imagine if such a spec exists, and hardware implements it. You plug said hardware in, and yes, it Just Works⢠(this is a concept. This already exists in USB) |
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| 17:24.14 | Primer | If you claim otherwise, you'd be wrong |
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| 17:25.32 | jelly | Primer: you really, really don't want to look at the zillion quirks to make usb, pci, pcie hw actually work, in linux kernel source |
| 17:25.51 | Primer | The main reason this crap doesn't exists now is because hardare manufacturers want to compete and make money. ubiquiti is not conducive to such business models. |
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| 17:26.51 | Primer | jelly: heh all I said was there is a spec and that the spec is implemented in all modern OSes. For a piece of hardware to be supported in any of these OSes, it simply needs to follow the spec. What it took to get that spec to work in each OS...not relevant |
| 17:27.20 | yvyz | man, this channel. |
| 17:27.27 | Primer | Sure, if your device has a quirk...it likely has that quirk in every OS |
| 17:27.33 | jelly | what you said discounted the thing we call reality |
| 17:27.38 | Primer | yvyz: you're learning new things from it? |
| 17:27.50 | Primer | jelly: how so? |
| 17:28.48 | GenTooMan | I always liked this quote "reality like it or leave it!" |
| 17:28.49 | Primer | I'm being 100% serious. I'm talking about USB audio devices, specifically, something I'm dealing with on an almost daily basis when using ardour, the free and open source digital audio workstation |
| 17:28.57 | jelly | Primer: drivers follow actual hardware, not the other way round |
| 17:29.14 | Primer | jelly: I'm talking specifically about the usb audio spec |
| 17:29.26 | yvyz | Not at all. Come over to oftc and join the mm and knewbies and learn how linux is developed. You are just not really a nice person. And this channel has gone extremely offtopic with some sensational fear of telling each other to get back to just chilling > debating the nuances of your intellect. |
| 17:29.29 | jelly | Primer: I'm talking about almost everything else. |
| 17:29.30 | Primer | this spec being the "universal" _driver_ for such things |
| 17:29.58 | jelly | Primer: your tiny niche is _very_ lucky, if what you're saying is correct |
| 17:29.59 | Primer | yvyz: you just like using ad hominems |
| 17:30.01 | Primer | that's you |
| 17:30.20 | lysander__ | I'm only here to watch people fight |
| 17:30.22 | Primer | jelly: serious, this is how USB audio works |
| 17:30.40 | Primer | There is a spec, you follow the spec, you plug it in, and the device works |
| 17:30.51 | Primer | No need for a special driver for that one device |
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| 17:30.57 | Primer | snd_usb_audio handles it |
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| 17:31.31 | Primer | That is surely not the case for, say, a SCSI controller |
| 17:31.38 | Primer | BUT...you know there's a spec for these too? |
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| 17:31.57 | Primer | all that would need to happen is for manufacturers to follow it |
| 17:32.07 | Primer | but they don't. They'd rather keep you vendor locked. |
| 17:32.33 | Primer | The tenets here are open source software. If you can't see the forest for the trees...not my fault |
| 17:33.19 | Primer | the USB spec for audio, block storage, video...were a HUGE leap in making computer hardware more open. Hardware manufacturers don't like openness. |
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| 17:33.59 | Primer | So yeah, go read up on these specs, and consider what I wrote about it in the context of this conversation, and get back to me. I'll be here all day. |
| 17:34.12 | Primer | yvyz: oh, and fuck yuo |
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| 17:36.41 | jelly | yvyz, Primer: keep it civil and avoid attacking the person, mkay |
| 17:36.53 | yvyz | I didnt do a thing bud. |
| 17:37.11 | petn-randall | TBH I've already spoken out warnings before ... |
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| 17:37.51 | yvyz | I quit like 20m ago. But I guess ban me anywase |
| 17:37.59 | Primer | I'm not the one hiding behing tor |
| 17:38.12 | Primer | He called me out by name. Yes, my whois is me. |
| 17:38.13 | greycat | maybe you can both just let it go |
| 17:38.19 | Primer | done |
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| 17:38.51 | Primer | It's one thing to disagree, but it's another to make it personal |
| 17:39.13 | Primer | Just keep things civil, and it's all good |
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| 17:44.40 | lolprimer | Hey guys can you help me solve my hardware issue? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld73ZKtNyx4 |
| 17:45.27 | Primer | if there was any doubt, that was yvyz |
| 17:45.38 | Primer | continuing with his personal attacks |
| 17:46.05 | Primer | except he forgot to use tor |
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| 17:47.12 | Primer | reports abuse for that IP... |
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| 17:48.02 | jelly | I see they're also able to google a name when it's pointed out there's one in gecos. |
| 17:48.30 | jelly | Primer: of course it might also be you pretending to be them! |
| 17:48.32 | Primer | gecos...? |
| 17:48.34 | jelly | who knows! |
| 17:48.44 | jelly | irc "realname" bit |
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| 17:49.03 | greycat | Named after the gecos field in passwd(5). |
| 17:49.17 | Primer | yeah, the term was familiar, just didn't ring a bell |
| 17:49.50 | greycat | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecos_field |
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| 17:53.18 | jelly | Dragone2: could you please disable that away nick setting? irc has a native away flag, you can use that and most clients show it. |
| 17:53.46 | jelly | Dragone2: it just adds to noise in large channels like this |
| 17:53.50 | *** part/#debian Dragone2 (~Dragone2@vps.risposteinformatiche.it) |
| 17:54.15 | jelly | that works too I guess! |
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| 18:31.18 | Lady_Aleena | Hello all. |
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| 18:34.59 | Lady_Aleena | Should I change my user name to nvidia_person? 8) |
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| 18:37.24 | bernyrd | hello, very serious issue. I can log in. I know I use right password, am not told password wrong. But it looks like I log in, but then I do not log in, am back at prompt again. |
| 18:37.29 | bernyrd | This also I think affect x2go session |
| 18:37.37 | bernyrd | got around it with xvfb-run for a while |
| 18:37.38 | bernyrd | bu no |
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| 18:40.00 | bernyrd | I log in but am immediately dropped back to greeter |
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| 18:41.04 | greycat | check for errors in ~/.xsession-errors or similar files |
| 18:41.34 | karlpinc | bernyrd: Log in via ssh or using a virtual console (Ctl-Alt-F1, etc.) |
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| 18:42.27 | bernyrd | karlpinc: I do not see anything |
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| 18:42.37 | bernyrd | I see xfc4 log errors, but that would be x2go stuff, not local log in |
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| 18:45.37 | bernyrd | I also have this issue https://bugs.x2go.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1117 |
| 18:45.46 | bernyrd | which does have a debian tracker, I think |
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| 18:48.07 | bernyrd | ok I tried to select lightdm and it does not work either |
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| 18:48.11 | bernyrd | was previously using gdm |
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| 18:50.05 | humpled | any chance the home directory is full or not writable? |
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| 18:54.20 | bernyrd | haaa yeah |
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| 18:56.52 | bernyrd | ah man this is not easy to fix |
| 18:57.20 | Logg | i did it, i made it to debian buster. It was not smooth lol. lightdm broke and had to be reinstalled. cryptsetup broke in initramfs so i had to chroot the system from livecd and set it up again,... kaffeine & k4dirstat and all the kde stuff I just removed because there was some conflict. My font rendering looks bad now, so I have to figure that one out. AwesomeWM always breaks their stuff on purpose, I think because theyâre bored, so |
| 18:57.20 | Logg | I had to diff between their rc.lua and my rc.lua, awesome 4.1 to 4.3. update-initramfs complained that amdgpu vega20 firmware was missing, so I copied them from the linux-firmware git. But now Iâm on debian buster so thatâs pretty neat |
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| 18:57.42 | greycat | I hope you filed bug reports for whatever didn't work. |
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| 18:58.51 | Logg | I did actually find a bug report for the cryptsetup thing, but the dude closed it as not reproducible. I'm always weary filing bug reports that aren't detailed enough, or when it could be from something dumb I did |
| 18:59.27 | Logg | like if i wanted to report the lightdm thing i'd say "lightdm broke" right? like, that doesn't do much for them |
| 19:00.17 | Logg | I think it was because I said "go ahead and install maintainers version" and then before apt was finished installing it, i went back into the config and put my startup script line in |
| 19:00.25 | Logg | may have broken it |
| 19:01.14 | greycat | Be more detailed. Did it break during the package upgrade? If so, copy the error messages out of your script(1) log of the session. Does it fail to start when you boot, but startx works fine? Does it run, but you can't login? And so on. Be specific. Be detailed. |
| 19:02.07 | areyouloco | Hi I am trying to get remote desktop of debian via vnc. I followed this: https://blog.sevagas.com/?VNC-to-access-Kali-Linux-on-Raspberry-Pi but I do get only grey screen and mouse X-shaped. |
| 19:02.14 | areyouloco | i know it has something to do with proper $HOME/.vnc/xstartup but I cannot make gnome to work |
| 19:02.25 | greycat | If you think it's because of a customized configuration file, that's also useful information. Explain what customizations you made, and note the error messages in ~/.xsession-errors or wherever lightdm logs stuff. I know very little about DMs. |
| 19:02.38 | karlpinc | Yes, filing bug reports is a pain. But in some sense it's the price you pay for using FOSS. |
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| 19:04.11 | karlpinc | (You often get the satisfaction of having your bugs actually fixed, assuming you file an adequate bug report. Unlike the usual case in the proprietary world.) |
| 19:05.50 | NetTerminalGene | hi guys. i encountered a bug on both gnome 3.28 and 3.30 on debian. if you copy and paste multiple files, after the first file paste, indicator freezes, but it copies in the background anyways. can you confirm? |
| 19:06.33 | areyouloco | nevermind I got this working now |
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| 19:08.17 | NetTerminalGene | o.0 no one copy-paste here? |
| 19:08.23 | humpled | :v |
| 19:08.31 | NetTerminalGene | ,bef |
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| 19:08.34 | humpled | (: |
| 19:08.38 | humpled | cp -purvi |
| 19:08.57 | greycat | more like, nobody here knows GNOME |
| 19:09.08 | greycat | but be patient, and maybe someone who knows GNOME will actually appear |
| 19:09.10 | NetTerminalGene | >.< |
| 19:09.42 | NetTerminalGene | i can't believe this bug passed to 3.30 too |
| 19:09.44 | greycat | meanwhile, which version of Debian is this, and if it's buster, are you using gnome on Wayland or gnome on X? |
| 19:10.11 | NetTerminalGene | i encountered both on stretch and buster |
| 19:10.24 | jhutchins_wk | NetTerminalGene: What are you copying between? |
| 19:10.26 | NetTerminalGene | stretch uses X, i am not sure about buster |
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| 19:10.45 | greycat | buster defaults to gnome-on-wayland, but you can select the type of session from gdm, which is why I brought it up |
| 19:11.12 | NetTerminalGene | jhutchins_wk, files |
| 19:11.25 | greycat | so you're using the cp command? |
| 19:11.33 | NetTerminalGene | no. gui |
| 19:11.36 | greycat | so it's not files. |
| 19:11.44 | somiaj | they are probably using nautilus, which should be mentioned, sounds like an issue with the filemanager, not debian or gnome. |
| 19:11.59 | NetTerminalGene | yes nautilus |
| 19:12.17 | Logg | it'd be nautilus, but I don't use nautilus b/c it's crippled. caja or nemo are better |
| 19:12.56 | NetTerminalGene | i love nautilus |
| 19:13.09 | somiaj | I'm not sure if such a bug has been reported, but there are tons of bugs against naultius. |
| 19:13.25 | somiaj | I do so various bugs about naultius crashing when copying files, so at least you arne't getting that. |
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| 19:13.43 | NetTerminalGene | :O |
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| 19:14.12 | somiaj | NetTerminalGene: you are welcome to report a bug, espically if you have a way to ensure the devs can reporduce it, also may want to look at upstream for this (debian may not try to fix this indvidual issue, but the matainer may forward the problem to upstream if it can be reproduced) |
| 19:14.24 | Primer | Lady_Aleena: You will forever be known to be as such :) |
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| 19:18.12 | NetTerminalGene | greycat, i am on buster now. i see there is xorg process. does it mean i am on X? |
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| 19:20.24 | jhutchins_wk | NetTerminalGene: Understood that you're copying data. From where to where? |
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| 19:20.46 | jhutchins_wk | NetTerminalGene: What else would you be on? And why would it matter? |
| 19:20.48 | NetTerminalGene | jhutchins_wk, from pc to phone |
| 19:21.05 | jhutchins_wk | Ah, there we are. Phone is running ios, android, or windows? |
| 19:21.12 | NetTerminalGene | android |
| 19:21.13 | tacocat | NetTerminalGene, try 'loginctl show-session "$XDG_SESSION_ID" -p Type' or 'echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE' |
| 19:21.24 | tacocat | that should show you the session type (x11 or wayland) |
| 19:21.34 | Lady_Aleena | Primer, I hope not. |
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| 19:22.45 | annadane | repent now and buy AMD! |
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| 19:23.16 | Lady_Aleena | You buying annadane? |
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| 19:23.45 | annadane | my next one will probably be |
| 19:23.58 | NetTerminalGene | you guys disabled intel hyperthreading? |
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| 19:24.04 | NetTerminalGene | vulnerabilities |
| 19:24.45 | NetTerminalGene | tacocat, that commands look scary |
| 19:25.17 | tacocat | uhhhhh |
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| 19:25.25 | tacocat | proof, https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/202891 |
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| 19:27.39 | Primer | all unknown commands should look scary |
| 19:27.41 | debianuser | NetTerminalGene: Are there any hyperthreading-specific vulnerabilities? All "vulnerabilities" I know are usually the result of cpu cache existence. Hyperthreading may make the exploit easier, but it's not the cause. The cause is the cpu arch, you can't fix that easily. |
| 19:28.21 | NetTerminalGene | debianuser, i think openbsd disabled it by default |
| 19:28.38 | Primer | I thought they were the speculative execution issues, not cache existence |
| 19:29.21 | debianuser | NetTerminalGene: Luckily, usually you don't have to, as those "vulnerabilities" usually only allow one running process to guess partially what the other running process is doing, and that's usually not the issue, unless you're hosting VMs with a finance-critical encryption in one VM and a scary untrusted virus in another one. :) |
| 19:29.51 | Primer | or have a shell |
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| 19:30.22 | NetTerminalGene | or js |
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| 19:30.30 | Primer | js not so much |
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| 19:30.38 | karlpinc | NetTerminalGene: See: zless /usr/share/doc/linux-image-4.9.0-9-amd64/changelog.Debian.gz |
| 19:30.38 | Primer | you'd need another vector |
| 19:30.52 | Primer | and mitigations=off :) |
| 19:31.07 | Primer | Don't do that |
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| 19:31.45 | Primer | How private can that access be if it has your nick in it!! |
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| 19:32.49 | NetTerminalGene | i just heard it is very important to disable ht |
| 19:33.01 | NetTerminalGene | against some vulns. |
| 19:33.34 | karlpinc | NetTerminalGene: If you've specific vulnerabilities in mind, check the changelog. |
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| 19:33.52 | debianuser | Maybe, but I'd be curious what vulnerabilities can be mitigated by disabling ht... |
| 19:33.53 | NetTerminalGene | karlpinc, i don't have ht ^^ |
| 19:34.04 | umbSublime | are you talking about zombieload perhaps ? |
| 19:34.11 | NetTerminalGene | dunno |
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| 19:35.11 | Primer | What you heard was probably something like "If this gets any worse, we'll simply have to disable HT". There are still currently ways of mitigating the issues, so there's no need to go there yet. |
| 19:35.41 | Primer | Read the changelogs that have been linked. |
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| 19:36.55 | umbSublime | you can always use the following script to check if you are mitigation all MDS type of attacks https://github.com/speed47/spectre-meltdown-checker |
| 19:38.40 | Primer | BWAHAHA Inspect the script. You never blindly run scripts you downloaded from the Internet, do you? |
| 19:38.55 | greycat | Depends on where on the internet. |
| 19:38.58 | Primer | htat's awesome |
| 19:39.01 | umbSublime | of course I never suggested that... Hence why I linked the github |
| 19:39.15 | Primer | no, I'm commenting that this author is giving sage advice |
| 19:39.24 | umbSublime | Ahh ! |
| 19:39.32 | Primer | kudos to the author for not just saying "Run this" |
| 19:39.39 | umbSublime | He is a collegue of mine |
| 19:40.00 | annadane | sudo curl virus | bash |
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| 19:40.22 | umbSublime | no sudo bash ? |
| 19:40.38 | greycat | the sudo is in the wrong place, yeah |
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| 19:40.48 | greycat | (or the "right" place if you don't want it to work) |
| 19:41.28 | annadane | oh well |
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| 19:49.38 | altker128 | Hey guys. Kind of a dumb UNIX folder/file permissions question here. I have a folder (i.e. ROOT_FOLDER) and inside there's a directory which I want to grant permission to a specific user (i.e /ROOT_FOLDER/SUB_FOLDER) ; I have permissions set on SUB_FOLDER but I guess because the user doesn't have execute permission on ROOT_FOLDER then, it won't have access to SUB_FOLDER? |
| 19:50.08 | greycat | you need +x permissions for that user on ROOT_FOLDER, either "other", or a group that the user is in |
| 19:51.03 | donofrio | what do I need to do to get my .deb locally copied to be read like a local mirror? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JmWFnGy2Jw/ or how can I get what I'm trying to do working so far sadness |
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| 19:51.31 | altker128 | greycat: Thanks . I assume if execute permission is granted, that means directory listings are permissible? |
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| 19:51.34 | greycat | by far the easiest thing you can do is drop the .deb in /var/cache/apt/archives/ and then it won't have to be downloaded |
| 19:51.57 | greycat | altker128: no, +x just lets you "pass through". To read the filenames of the directory, you would also need +r. |
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| 19:52.22 | altker128 | greycat: OK, that makes sense, thanks! |
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| 19:57.36 | leeward | I have a product I want to ship that runs Debian, and I have some specific configuration that I want to keep on all instances of the product. Is there a preferred way to do that? A .deb package that overrides other packages' config files seems...weird. |
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| 19:59.01 | karlpinc | leeward: Read the installer docs and see if there's some way to automatically frob configs? |
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| 19:59.53 | leeward | karlpinc: I can set them at install time, but that doesn't give me a good way to manage them in the future (and in the field). |
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| 20:01.13 | karlpinc | leeward: ansible |
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| 20:03.21 | leeward | People are always trying to violate special relativity... |
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| 20:06.04 | jim | debianuser, hi... I screwed up my cadence install, I think by doing an autoremove of something needed by cadence but missing from the depend list of the package |
| 20:06.37 | altker128 | Is there anything that lets you automatically diff what you use to configure something and helps create the ansible scripts? |
| 20:07.31 | trackanddirt | stat |
| 20:07.46 | trackanddirt | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50609345/compare-two-files-with-ansible |
| 20:07.46 | altker128 | jim: Cadence...schematic / layout software? |
| 20:07.51 | bernyrd | altker128: not to be a cheek, but pay attention as you set up? |
| 20:07.56 | bernyrd | maybe rip from docker script |
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| 20:08.14 | bernyrd | autoconfig is not that yet |
| 20:08.57 | altker128 | I guess basically configure, run diff, create the "patches" and then use ansible to apply the patches |
| 20:10.32 | jim | altker128, no it's a sound thing |
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| 20:14.10 | bernyrd | jim: but how do you know you got everything? |
| 20:15.03 | bernyrd | starting from nothing and creating comprehensive set of changes is only way I have seen people 1) catch every chagne impacting the sw and 2) understand what they have actually set up |
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| 20:15.31 | bernyrd | but good sw I guess can make that better. like not depending heavily on envvars, and so on. |
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| 20:17.46 | mutante | altker128: build a .deb that applies the patches and then let ansible or puppet install a package? |
| 20:17.49 | donofrio | I'm stuck till I can figure out how to apply the arcive_2019.key or something to get this ports mirror to work on my powerpc |
| 20:18.04 | leeward | Hmm, ansible looks like it might work, but seems like a centralized push type system, where I want something more similar to apt with distributed nodes that can pull configuration at will. |
| 20:18.15 | mutante | puppet? |
| 20:18.36 | leeward | I probably don't want to maintain a central inventory of all these things. |
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| 20:18.40 | mutante | you run an agent on the node, automated or manually and it pulls config changes from master |
| 20:19.02 | mutante | repo is useful to have |
| 20:19.04 | leeward | Yeah, that could do...time for more reading. |
| 20:20.01 | blackflow | SaltStack is closer to ansible in concepts and syntax, might wanna take a look at that before Puppet |
| 20:20.02 | debianuser | jim: `apt-get install -f` should probably get you all the missing dependencies... |
| 20:20.12 | altker128 | mutante: I don't know what the benefit of having a '.deb' that applies the patches vs. using Ansible / Puppet to do that, if you're going the Ansible/Puppet route |
| 20:20.14 | karlpinc | leeward: And see if you can pull with ansible. (I've no clue, but it always seemed the most flexible of those sorts of systems.) |
| 20:20.27 | altker128 | mutante: Or, just keep the patch and run a script that applies it once via SSH |
| 20:20.41 | blackflow | leeward: sorry, didn't hilight you, check out my comment about saltstack just above |
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| 20:22.13 | LinuxGuy2020 | Hello I am trying to combine 3x 120GB SSD with RAID 0. I created a 2GB EFI partition, a 2GB /boot partition, 16GB swap at the end of the drive , the rest is for / partition. The only partition that is created on a RAID device is the / partition. It will boot just fine. The problem is when I try and do a dist-upgrade, it winds up breaking GRUB on next reboot. Is this normal or is this simply a current bug in unstable? |
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| 20:22.55 | mutante | altker128: oh, it seemed to me that creating all the patches and dumping them into a package would be easier than having to tell ansible about a bunch of individual files and their contents and that somehow it would be "cleaner" to have the config management just install packages .. but whatever works |
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| 20:23.01 | donofrio | anyone know how to get archive_2019.key reconised on my system? |
| 20:23.04 | altker128 | LinuxGuy2020: It might be cleaner to make your boot/OS volumes onto a non-RAID drive |
| 20:23.32 | greycat | donofrio: apt-key add? I have no idea what this file is, so I'm guessing it's an APT archive signing key or whatever they're called. |
| 20:23.43 | mutante | altker128: the "patch via ssh" part seems nice until you have more than 1 server and 1 distro version |
| 20:24.10 | altker128 | mutante: You might be right. I still struggle to see what Ansible/Puppet "adds" if you're installing basic software packages, and then changing the config files (which is pretty much what you have to do to configure some software) |
| 20:24.45 | mutante | altker128: it becomes more obvious if you have a larger number of servers and more than 1 server per "role" |
| 20:24.46 | altker128 | mutante: How does Ansible/Puppet help in that regard? Basically as a user you need to "tokenize" configuration parameters, and then pass them in from some top-level |
| 20:25.22 | mutante | basically it's that you only do things once and don't repeat yourselves when doing it on 1000 boxes |
| 20:25.26 | altker128 | I know that if you wanted to say "mass apt update / apt upgrade" that Ansible/Puppet helps with that |
| 20:25.36 | mutante | and that you have all the history and state in a repo |
| 20:25.59 | mutante | which is much nicer than "our admin guy did magic and now there's the new guy" |
| 20:26.07 | altker128 | I get how they help with maintaing systems, but I am still not sure about configuration |
| 20:26.45 | mutante | they dont help with configuring services.. it's the same work to edit that config file once .. i would agree |
| 20:26.59 | mutante | either you edit it directly or a template for it.. but at least you do it only once |
| 20:27.00 | karlpinc | altker128: It helps a lot to know which, of the big pile, configuration files are frobbed on any given system. And what was changed. |
| 20:27.24 | tds | altker128: as an example, I've got 3 identically configured reverse proxies at the edge of my network, I have ansible take in just a list of hostnames then generate the config from that, and deploy it to all of them |
| 20:27.40 | tds | and of course when you scale it up to "real" infrastructure rather than just personal stuff, it makes even more sense :) |
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| 20:28.00 | karlpinc | altker128: Or, I want to rebuild this box. What config files do I need to touch? |
| 20:28.13 | altker128 | karlpinc: What that's my very question -- how do you resolve that? |
| 20:28.34 | altker128 | tds: Did you end up manually scripting the part that takes in list of hostnames ---> modify configuration files? |
| 20:29.19 | tds | altker128: it's a jinja2 template that gets rendered out to a full config |
| 20:29.28 | karlpinc | altker128: I don't know. I just hear that people use ansible to do this. I'd imagine it has to do with what configs get automaticaly pushed to what VMs (etc.). |
| 20:29.37 | bernyrd | mutante: actually I like that, using .deb |
| 20:29.56 | leeward | thanks karlpinc and blackflow, will look into those more |
| 20:30.02 | tds | as an example: |
| 20:30.02 | tds | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.02 | tds | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.02 | tds | <PROTECTED> |
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| 20:30.30 | altker128 | tds: Ah, so you tokenized/templatized a given configuration file's syntax, and then modify it from a script |
| 20:30.39 | leeward | Incidentally, Puppet's really bad at explaining how it works. It's got a section on its web site entitled "How it works" but it just talks about outcomes not process. |
| 20:30.52 | bernyrd | mutante: but, I found agentless to be better, you just need way to properly manage roles |
| 20:30.52 | tds | altker128: yeah |
| 20:31.01 | karlpinc | tds: I'd use m4. Just saying. :) |
| 20:31.14 | tds | m4? |
| 20:31.49 | tds | oh, heh |
| 20:31.49 | altker128 | Oh man |
| 20:31.51 | altker128 | m4 |
| 20:31.51 | karlpinc | tds: Instead of jinga2. It's a macro substitution system. |
| 20:31.53 | bernyrd | macro language, use by people with long flowing beards. |
| 20:32.13 | greycat | mostly it's used by GNU autoconf |
| 20:32.33 | karlpinc | greycat: And sendmail! :) |
| 20:32.46 | karlpinc | But it is really good at what it does. |
| 20:33.14 | mutante | bernyrd: :) thanks for giving me the "agentless" keyword to read on |
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| 20:33.41 | mutante | Bolt? |
| 20:34.00 | jim | bernyrd, originally, I installed the build depends and built the package |
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| 20:34.44 | jim | and, it was working before, so obviously I had everything then |
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| 20:34.58 | bernyrd | bolt is kind of interesting. for al ong time, ansible was hard to make roles in, with inheritance and so on |
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| 20:35.07 | bernyrd | there is also Rexify, but it is Perl |
| 20:35.10 | bernyrd | and one in Scala |
| 20:35.17 | bernyrd | I will look more at bolt |
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| 20:35.51 | bernyrd | a good pattern is nested dirs of .yml where the deeper levels set values take precedence |
| 20:36.09 | bernyrd | for full complicated, can link in roles by name, if you need multiple inheritance |
| 20:36.15 | jpw | i still mean to try bolt. i'm a massive puppet nerd |
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| 20:36.41 | jpw | running against localhost has always been painful |
| 20:37.15 | bernyrd | oh, fabfile.org |
| 20:37.30 | bernyrd | but kind of low level |
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| 20:38.08 | bernyrd | yeah I did not like how puppet got set up, turned me off of it |
| 20:38.23 | bernyrd | it is like you are supposed to have per-DC orchestrator or something? I dunno, weird to get set up on a laptop |
| 20:38.36 | bernyrd | maybe I think too much about it |
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| 20:39.18 | jpw | puppet is great for OS automation, integrating with ntp, snmp, ldap etc... |
| 20:39.27 | jpw | it sucks for application deployment |
| 20:39.27 | bernyrd | fabfile.org is kind of like a Python version of Rexify |
| 20:39.34 | bernyrd | sounds very "enterprise" jpw |
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| 20:39.44 | jpw | it is |
| 20:41.50 | altker128 | jpw: What is the difference between "OS automation", integrating with ntp, snmp, LDAP and "application deployment" ? |
| 20:42.05 | altker128 | Doesn't application deployment often involve those tasks? |
| 20:42.20 | jpw | application deployment as in tiered applications tend to have multiple services spread over many servers |
| 20:42.27 | jpw | orchestrating that in puppet is a nightmare |
| 20:43.26 | altker128 | So, for example, if deploying an application needed A) postgres B) nginx C) sendmail D) dovecot , you're saying Puppet doesn't help there? |
| 20:44.01 | jpw | it can, it's nowhere near as graceful as some other tools |
| 20:44.30 | altker128 | jpw: So, what WOULD be better? |
| 20:45.05 | jpw | ansible imo |
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| 20:45.54 | jpw | that's the combo we use (we are mode 1). puppet to look after the OS and ensure it's monitored and integrated with essential services. then deploy the application on top with ansible. |
| 20:46.37 | altker128 | jpw: So, Ansible to install/configure packages, Puppet to keep the systems up to date and monitor them? |
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| 20:47.38 | zoredache | altker128: or just ansible for everything. |
| 20:48.08 | jpw | not quite. take a kubernetes cluster for example. each server must have its time synchronised, integrated with active directory for login and rbac, snmp server installed for baseline monitoring. this is handled with puppet. kubernetes is then deployed on top using ansible. |
| 20:49.18 | jpw | zoredache: in an ideal world yea. unfortunately through experience individual teams have not taken requests to change things like community strings seriously so we needed another way to manage them |
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| 21:12.22 | donofrio | greycat, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rKVVJs9ZQC/ |
| 21:12.54 | donofrio | or anyone else that can help me get my local .deb packages installed inthe correct order to get apt updates to work from debian-ports mirror |
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| 21:13.09 | donofrio | on my minimial install powerpc5 install |
| 21:13.42 | BCMM | donofrio: do you just prefer the ubuntu pastebin, or is this some hybrid debian/ubuntu system? |
| 21:14.22 | sloshy | so whose bright idea was it to remove openjdk-8-jre |
| 21:14.44 | sloshy | and make the minecraft deb package not work anymore |
| 21:14.44 | donofrio | what paste do you prefer cause I'm just trying to get info to you good folks....its buster iminimal install from install cdrom that had no mirrors to build because arcive_2019.key is not importe or something like taht |
| 21:15.34 | BCMM | donofrio: i'm not complaining about the pastebin; i was just checking it's actually a debian system |
| 21:15.44 | donofrio | cool - it is.... |
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| 21:16.07 | donofrio | or should I say I'm trying, it was ubuntu 16.04 but that was getting long in the teeth when it came to updates |
| 21:17.15 | sloshy | i guess ill just install the java 8 package from stretch |
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| 21:18.47 | donofrio | do you know what I need to to get my local .deb files installed in correct order with dependancy resolution aka, how do I mount "sources" directory that is a copy of the buster netinstall cdrom to get reconized so this all "just works" |
| 21:19.00 | donofrio | sloshy, ot openjdk11 |
| 21:19.04 | BCMM | donofrio: i don't think the order of installation is the problem here... |
| 21:19.24 | donofrio | ok I'm here to type what is needed to get apt-get update to work |
| 21:19.42 | BCMM | where did you get that gpgv .deb from? |
| 21:19.55 | mutante | move the .deb files to /var/cache/apt/archives/ and then use apt-get install ? |
| 21:20.08 | mutante | so..not dpkg -i |
| 21:20.09 | donofrio | from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/powerpc/iso-cd/ |
| 21:20.24 | sloshy | minecraft requires java 8 still |
| 21:20.24 | BCMM | donofrio: you extracted it from the iso image? |
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| 21:20.51 | sloshy | i wish they would just make a linux version of the new c++ version they made for windows 10 |
| 21:20.55 | BCMM | sloshy: what version of debian are you using? |
| 21:20.57 | sloshy | and throw out the java version entirely |
| 21:21.06 | sloshy | i heard they might do that at some point in the future |
| 21:21.12 | sloshy | i just installed buster |
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| 21:21.50 | sloshy | i dont think using the java 8 package from stretch will cause any problems though |
| 21:21.56 | sloshy | nothing will be using that version besides minecraft |
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| 21:22.20 | sloshy | i think the only other thing i run that uses java is libreoffice |
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| 21:22.40 | mutante | also it's always "jre or jdk and do i really need that one" |
| 21:22.47 | sloshy | java might be one of the worst things to happen to application development |
| 21:22.53 | donofrio | this is the layout of the deb files https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/d9qxXSFN8g/ |
| 21:23.08 | BCMM | donofrio: it's a Buster install, right? |
| 21:23.15 | sloshy | openjdk used to suck but its just as good as oracle java now |
| 21:23.25 | sloshy | or just as bad i should say |
| 21:23.26 | donofrio | yep |
| 21:23.29 | donofrio | buster |
| 21:23.38 | donofrio | (I was calling it 'sid' but I know better now) |
| 21:23.53 | somiaj | donofrio: you are not running buster, you are running sid on powerpc (powerpc doens't have buster) |
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| 21:24.11 | donofrio | welll how do I show you what I have without installing anything new |
| 21:24.12 | BCMM | donofrio: well, which is it? buster and sid are not the same... |
| 21:24.17 | donofrio | buster |
| 21:24.23 | mutante | lsb_release -a |
| 21:24.28 | donofrio | one min |
| 21:24.33 | BCMM | donofrio: so, how long is it since you ran `apt upgrade` or an equivalent? |
| 21:24.39 | BCMM | donofrio: and what happens if you try now? |
| 21:24.50 | somiaj | also why are you just not using the unoffical powerpc port, that is really all debian has to offer, what is this older iso you are trying to use? |
| 21:25.03 | mutante | kali ?:) |
| 21:25.12 | donofrio | lsb_release not found on this system |
| 21:25.18 | somiaj | the netinstall iso is not going to have that many packages, what is your goal here? |
| 21:25.43 | somiaj | BCMM: they have been having trouble trying to get the old powerpc port to work, of which no one really knows much about it anymore, and it is all unoffical and on ports.debian.org |
| 21:25.45 | mutante | that's odd, i usually have lsb_release on any ubuntu or debian i have recently seen |
| 21:25.48 | donofrio | I'll use whatever I can...aka I'm flexable send whatever iso and sources.list needed to make this work |
| 21:25.58 | BCMM | donofrio: honestly, there's a lot of your pastebin that i'm failing to see the relevance of, but the error at the end is, quite simply, the result of trying to install a new package on a very out-of-date system |
| 21:26.20 | donofrio | the very out of date system was downloaded and installed yesterday |
| 21:26.26 | BCMM | somiaj: what does "old" powerpc port mean in this context? is it discontinued? |
| 21:26.29 | donofrio | it has no mirrors and is only minial install |
| 21:26.50 | donofrio | I'm trying to inport arcvhive_2019.key so it wourld work with the powerpc arch type on th edebian-ports mirros |
| 21:26.51 | BCMM | donofrio: and you're trying to bring it up to date using a different, newer install cd, rather than a mirror? |
| 21:27.07 | BCMM | somiaj: is it gone from the mirrors now? is that why donofrio is trying to update it from cd? |
| 21:27.14 | somiaj | BCMM: powerpc has not been an offical port since jessie, support for it was dropped in stetch, and the packages have been moved over to ports.debian.org. It only has sid, and it isn't that well supported. |
| 21:27.36 | donofrio | local deb files all I have till I can get sources.list that will work with this....asking and waiting not looking for quick answress but I'm here to do whta you recommend |
| 21:27.37 | somiaj | they have been trying to do alot, but it could be that the cd and the install they have work are just not compadable, I don't think any powerpc cds are made anymore |
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| 21:28.01 | somiaj | donofrio: you only need one line in your sources.list, deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main |
| 21:28.15 | donofrio | trying that now |
| 21:28.16 | BCMM | donofrio: have you tried #debianppc, who might be more familiar with the particular problems of that port? |
| 21:28.32 | bernyrd | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/BJyfcDkO/ |
| 21:28.43 | bernyrd | err |
| 21:28.47 | bernyrd | hi I have a disk I install on, but too small |
| 21:28.48 | bernyrd | can I replace with bigger disk? it use lvm, can I dd the smaller one to the larger, and run a lvm command to see bigger space? |
| 21:29.18 | somiaj | browsing http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ clearly shows that the only release avaiable from debian ports is sid, and basically all this is, is packages which can still be built in sid against that arch are built and made avaiable as is (no support) |
| 21:29.44 | bernyrd | I found https://askubuntu.com/questions/90940/how-to-move-copy-logical-volume-lv-to-another-volume-group-vg, but am worried it will regenerate uuid, causing boot to fail |
| 21:29.54 | somiaj | and powerpc is just one of those now obsecure ports that not many people use regurally so as I've menetioned multple times, is not gonna be well supported |
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| 21:30.03 | BCMM | somiaj: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/powerpc/iso-cd/ had modified dates from just last month |
| 21:30.29 | somiaj | BCMM: I've pointed them there multiple times, but yea each time they come here, we have to point out to the person offering help they are using powerpc |
| 21:30.38 | vlt | bernyrd: Yes, you can change the size even of physical volumes later. |
| 21:30.44 | BCMM | somiaj: and the package donofrio is failing to install, which apparently was extracted from the iso, wants sid's current libc6 version (which he hasn't got) |
| 21:30.58 | somiaj | BCMM: ahh, maybe they are still making iso's, problem is finding someone who has actual experience (other than reading the docs) with powerpc to provide good support. |
| 21:31.01 | donofrio | tried the one line in my sources.list and got this - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/d66kTpSjSP/ |
| 21:31.22 | somiaj | donofrio: did you use the old jessie installer to get where you are at? |
| 21:32.18 | somiaj | donofrio: so you need to get the current key which you have also been pointed to, https://www.ports.debian.org/archive_2019.key |
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| 21:32.55 | somiaj | you could also just disable the key, and get packages without apt-secure, this is just a config option to move beyond tha tpoint |
| 21:33.00 | donofrio | no I got it from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/powerpc/iso-cd/ |
| 21:33.07 | BCMM | donofrio: ah, i think i see the problem now... the system is out-of-date; you can't bring it up to date from the mirror because a key isn't installed, and you're trying to manually install gpgv so you can update the key. is that right? |
| 21:33.19 | donofrio | yepper bingo that is it |
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| 21:33.42 | donofrio | finnly someone that can see what my issue is.... |
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| 21:34.04 | donofrio | except the system is not out of date it's just whatever it had when the iso was made last year |
| 21:34.04 | BCMM | donofrio: you mean finally somebody who can piece together all the different clues that you gave instead of just explaining? |
| 21:34.26 | donofrio | yah, hanning head in shame |
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| 21:34.43 | donofrio | any hope |
| 21:35.10 | BCMM | did you say you just installed this today or something? |
| 21:35.13 | donofrio | yes |
| 21:35.36 | BCMM | so there are two different install ISOs involved, right? the one you installed from, and the newer one that you're now trying to update from? |
| 21:35.54 | donofrio | no only one iso from that link https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/powerpc/iso-cd/ |
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| 21:36.13 | BCMM | oh that's not last month, that's 13 months ago. whoops. |
| 21:36.22 | donofrio | ya that |
| 21:36.23 | BCMM | donofrio: so where did you get the gpgv .deb from? |
| 21:36.28 | BCMM | i thought you said you got it from the iso |
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| 21:36.52 | somiaj | maybe it would be best if they just disabled secure apt, and updated the keys that way, then moved on. Or use wget to get the key and use apt-key add to add it |
| 21:37.01 | donofrio | from the .iso file itself I expanded it and scp'ed it to the sources directory locally in my homedir |
| 21:37.02 | BCMM | but surely the iso doesn't have packages that use more than one different libc version on it? |
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| 21:37.15 | donofrio | I have no wget yet |
| 21:37.20 | donofrio | it it not installed |
| 21:37.21 | BCMM | donofrio: curl then |
| 21:37.25 | donofrio | no mirros at install |
| 21:37.27 | donofrio | no curl |
| 21:37.32 | donofrio | only scp |
| 21:37.33 | donofrio | ssh |
| 21:37.38 | somiaj | BCMM: yea, seems the current state of ports is hard to find good docs, even ports.debian.org didn't update the curernt key from 2018 to 2019 on the webpae, we had to find the new key elsewhere. |
| 21:37.38 | BCMM | somiaj: i *was* starting to wonder about that... you don't actually need gpgv to install a debian key, do you? |
| 21:37.56 | BCMM | huh, i thought curl was in the default install |
| 21:38.02 | BCMM | maybe just libcurl without the client |
| 21:38.13 | somiaj | I'm not quite sure on the details, its always just worked for me using the debian package, I think you can manually use gpgv, but apt-key is a front end to manage this in some sense. |
| 21:38.35 | donofrio | ok so here I am still wondering what to do next |
| 21:38.40 | somiaj | but they can just disable secure apt and get around the invalid key warning, you do have to trust someone doens't try to inject something, but I think they are safe. |
| 21:39.15 | donofrio | I have the files cally, if I could import the archive_2019.key instal the live install session then it would see the ports mirror? |
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| 21:39.36 | donofrio | I was told to go past the no mirrors and the fix it after install but nothing much is working yet lol |
| 21:39.37 | somiaj | donofrio: does this work, apt-get --allow-unauthenticated update |
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| 21:40.59 | donofrio | ;( https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TYrW2fmBtb/ |
| 21:41.00 | somiaj | BCMM: but you seem more famialr with this than me, I'm mostly pointing in the dark reading the few docs I find. |
| 21:41.13 | BCMM | somiaj: i'm really not familiar with this |
| 21:41.50 | BCMM | i'm also a bit confused about how they got the outdated files installed in the first place |
| 21:42.13 | BCMM | the only .iso on the page is a netinst iso - i thought netinst didn't actually install any packages from the cd |
| 21:42.17 | donofrio | who 'they' the mirror maintainers or me? |
| 21:42.20 | somiaj | yea, I think that is the main problem, donofrio needs some help, but no one around to help is actually familar with debian-ports and powerpc |
| 21:42.37 | somiaj | netinstall contains a minimial base system that doens't need a network to install |
| 21:42.40 | donofrio | BCMM, your close that sounds irght |
| 21:42.50 | somiaj | so you can do a minimial install from a netinstall without internet. |
| 21:42.52 | donofrio | it didn't install much of anything lucky to have bash and ssh |
| 21:43.05 | donofrio | right but how do you get it to updat eonce the internet is there? |
| 21:43.10 | somiaj | it installs a little more than debootstrap, a little less than the standard task |
| 21:43.10 | Primer | if you have ssh, you can have curl |
| 21:43.20 | donofrio | ok lets see |
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| 21:43.32 | donofrio | command not found |
| 21:43.43 | somiaj | donofrio: have you read the manpage to apt-key, it says 'apt key filename' add that 2019.key file you downloaded |
| 21:43.43 | BCMM | somiaj: i mostly just use debootstrap, so i'm a bit confused here. does netinst give you the choice between a *very* minimal system from the CD, or whatever you want, up to date, from the net? |
| 21:43.46 | donofrio | I had to apt install sshclient from dvd |
| 21:43.50 | donofrio | to get sh to work |
| 21:44.10 | BCMM | talking of debootstrap... is that perhaps the answer here? |
| 21:44.12 | Primer | ssh works over a network. If you're networked, use said networks, and apt uddate; apt install curl; |
| 21:44.21 | mutante | BCMM: yea, but it is just whether you select stuff in the software install sectin of the installer.. if you click "desktop system" or not etc |
| 21:44.36 | BCMM | just nuke it and get a new system that's current with debootstrap maybe? |
| 21:44.47 | BCMM | Primer: network works, apt doesn't. keyring is out of date. |
| 21:44.48 | somiaj | BCMM: Basically you can skip the 'configure apt' part and just 'finlize install', in that case you get what is on the cd. If you go as far as configuring apt and setting up a network/mirror, the netinstall will update all the packages and give you the option (via tasksel) to install additional software. |
| 21:45.00 | BCMM | Primer: and the system may or may not be too minimal to bring it up to date... |
| 21:45.11 | Primer | then download a static curl binary? Surely these exist |
| 21:45.17 | Primer | oh powerpc, right... |
| 21:45.19 | mutante | i would never use tasksel..there is always time to install stuff later.. and only the ones you really want, heh |
| 21:45.40 | somiaj | donofrio: and the minimial install didn't include wget, I thought it included that |
| 21:45.58 | BCMM | why is wget the problem, though? |
| 21:46.18 | somiaj | mutante: yea, I like the minimial install, and I like that you don't need network for netinstall, just incase you needed non-free firmware or something, skip the network part, get a minimial system, and build up from there. |
| 21:46.39 | somiaj | BCMM: so they can get the key, ,https://www.ports.debian.org/archive_2019.key |
| 21:46.40 | BCMM | somiaj: i know there's a bunch of irrelevant stuff in the pastebin, but have a look at lines 13/14 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rKVVJs9ZQC/ |
| 21:46.55 | BCMM | looks like they have the key, and gpg really is the problem |
| 21:47.15 | Primer | Can't the key just be dropped in /etc/apt/somewhere? |
| 21:47.38 | donofrio | yah I'll do that but it will still erro I believe |
| 21:47.39 | Primer | I thought apt-key was just a convenience |
| 21:47.51 | Primer | apt update after dropping the key in the dir? |
| 21:47.59 | somiaj | ahh, then they just need to disable the key alltogether at this point |
| 21:48.13 | Primer | you can always force things in apt itself |
| 21:48.17 | BCMM | Primer: i think it gets added to a single keyring file |
| 21:48.18 | Primer | or just use dpkg |
| 21:48.25 | BCMM | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:48.36 | mutante | somiaj: actually i do need non-free firmware each time.. and it's always wifi ..iwlwifi..because i cant be bothered to get the ethernet adapter (sigh that this is a thing) and cable and plug in somewhere .. the problem is usually i copy the firmware files to a USB drive and then the installer scans it but doesnt find anything :p |
| 21:49.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1500] by debhelper |
| 21:49.03 | donofrio | it's not seeing it in /etc/apt |
| 21:49.14 | BCMM | mutante: there are iso images available with nonfree firmware included... |
| 21:49.19 | donofrio | should the renameed arcive_2019.key.gpg file go somehwre else |
| 21:49.43 | BCMM | no, it has to be integrated in to trusted.gpg using gpg |
| 21:49.48 | BCMM | using gnupg |
| 21:49.53 | BCMM | (i think) |
| 21:50.03 | somiaj | mutante: I was commenting how you can skip that stage in the installer, then deal with it from a minimial install (copy firmware over, configure network, move on) |
| 21:50.44 | mutante | BCMM: good point, i might look next time |
| 21:50.48 | somiaj | I just am not familar enough with apt-secure, but at this point I just think disabling it would probably be the best way to move forward. |
| 21:50.51 | mutante | somiaj: oh. right! that's another way, sure |
| 21:50.57 | BCMM | somiaj: do debports have their own signing key, or do they use the main debian one? |
| 21:51.08 | somiaj | BCMM: their own, I've linked it a few times, |
| 21:51.26 | somiaj | actually donofrio has the key, they just can't seem to add it due to gpg missing |
| 21:51.30 | BCMM | somiaj: right, so donofrio can't just scp a trusted.gpg from another, working debian machine... |
| 21:51.59 | donofrio | yep, and the .deb files are in the /home/donofrio/sources directory but dependencies kicking in ;( |
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| 21:52.36 | BCMM | donofrio: by the way, why are you installing/trying to install gpgv in particular? |
| 21:52.44 | mutante | donofrio: are you using dpkg -i ? |
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| 21:53.00 | donofrio | yah I was dpkg --install attemted |
| 21:53.24 | somiaj | I still think adding a correct config to /etc/apt/conf.d/ to disable the key checking is probably their best bet at this juncture |
| 21:53.25 | mutante | donofrio: if you'd use apt-get that would resolve dependencies.. and you can use apt-get to install from local files..if you copy them to /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 21:53.55 | Primer | somiaj: agreed |
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| 21:54.19 | higgs_ | http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/debian-archive-keyring/ |
| 21:54.44 | somiaj | something like APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "true"; |
| 21:54.49 | somiaj | or APT{Ignore {"gpg-pubkey"; }}; |
| 21:55.01 | somiaj | but can't seem to find any clear options to just add |
| 21:56.57 | BCMM | i don't properly understand --allow-unauthenticated |
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| 21:57.23 | BCMM | is it just for actual *packages*, not for metadata like InRelease? |
| 21:57.26 | donofrio | mutante, will it go though the many subdirectioes storing the depandancies if I mv -R them? |
| 21:58.23 | BCMM | donofrio: can you try adding "[trusted=yes]" after the word "deb" in your sources.list? |
| 21:58.30 | donofrio | sure |
| 21:58.35 | donofrio | I'll try that |
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| 21:58.51 | Rojola | hi |
| 21:58.54 | Rojola | may I please ask: |
| 21:59.01 | Rojola | What has the most recent version? |
| 21:59.01 | somiaj | BCMM: yea, it seems to just disable it for packages, but not for update, which is why I think we also needed Ignore gpg-pubkey |
| 21:59.04 | Rojola | a) Debian 9.7 |
| 21:59.09 | Rojola | b) Ubuntu 18.04 LTS |
| 21:59.17 | BCMM | donofrio: only do this if you're reasonably sure your internet connection is safe, and be sure to put it back after you've got the key updated |
| 21:59.23 | somiaj | Rojola: debian 9.9 is the current point release, but debian buster (10) will be released in a week |
| 21:59.26 | donofrio | like this? deb "trusted=yes" http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main |
| 21:59.32 | Rojola | I must pick an OS on digital ocean for a droplet |
| 21:59.38 | BCMM | Rojola: most recent version of what? are you looking for a particular application? |
| 21:59.59 | Rojola | BCMM, sandstorm and docker should run, apache and proftpd |
| 22:00.01 | somiaj | so you may also want to look at versions in debian 10 to compare for what you need |
| 22:00.10 | Rojola | I must pick an OS for a Droplet (virtual server) |
| 22:00.21 | Rojola | somiaj, they don't offer Debian 10 |
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| 22:00.39 | Rojola | they offer Debian 9.7 and Ubuntu |
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| 22:00.52 | donofrio | alpine for docker is that is what your asking about |
| 22:00.53 | Rojola | I personally am doing well on both distros |
| 22:00.56 | somiaj | !buster release |
| 22:00.57 | dpkg | Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html). Celebrate by attending, or hosting, a buster release party: https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBuster |
| 22:01.00 | BCMM | Rojola: you can check individual packages here and here https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_packages https://packages.ubuntu.com/ |
| 22:01.03 | somiaj | (They may offer it soon, espically once the release happens) |
| 22:01.22 | BCMM | Rojola: debian 9 is "stretch", or "stable"; ubuntu 18.04 is "bionic" |
| 22:01.39 | Rojola | BCMM, now I am confused |
| 22:01.53 | BCMM | Rojola: you can check the package versions included in both distros there |
| 22:02.00 | Rojola | ah, that's what you meant |
| 22:02.01 | Rojola | thank you |
| 22:02.43 | mutante | donofrio: not sure, but i think rather not and everything needs to be in the ./archives/ dir directly |
| 22:02.48 | BCMM | e.g. https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/apache2 and https://packages.debian.org/stretch/apache2 |
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| 22:03.15 | donofrio | that [trusted=yes] seems to be working!! |
| 22:03.46 | BCMM | Rojola: what is "sandstorm"? is that sandstorm.io? |
| 22:04.44 | mutante | darude |
| 22:04.57 | Rojola | BCMM, yes |
| 22:05.02 | Rojola | an other question, please |
| 22:05.06 | Rojola | Digital Ocean has an option: |
| 22:05.08 | Rojola | [ ] IPv6 (Enables Public IPv6 Networking) |
| 22:05.17 | BCMM | Rojola: i don't think either distro packages that... it's one of those stupid "curl | sh" installers |
| 22:05.18 | Rojola | I think I should check this, shouldn't I ? |
| 22:05.28 | mutante | sure, it's been waiting for 20 years to be enabled |
| 22:05.36 | Rojola | BCMM, it did not work on my other provider's virtual server |
| 22:05.42 | mutante | just remember to also use ip6tables |
| 22:05.44 | Rojola | BCMM, they used OpenVZ and kernel 2.6 |
| 22:05.55 | BCMM | Rojola: how did it not work? i mean, what did you try, and what went wrong? |
| 22:06.02 | Rojola | mutante, will it cause me any stress if I use ipv6 ? |
| 22:06.10 | Rojola | BCMM, the kernel is not supported |
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| 22:06.17 | Rojola | 2.6 is too old a kernel |
| 22:06.26 | Rojola | installing wekan via snap also failed |
| 22:06.27 | BCMM | Rojola: yeah, 2.6 *is* too old a kernel |
| 22:06.29 | BCMM | for, like, anything |
| 22:06.31 | Rojola | because it could not be mounted |
| 22:06.36 | mutante | Rojola: hard to tell without knowing what services you run.. i would say "a little but not too much" you need to care about firewall rules but only once |
| 22:06.46 | Rojola | "wekan" is the software I really need installed |
| 22:07.09 | BCMM | is there even an lts of kernel 2.6, upstream? i thought it was properly dead now |
| 22:07.23 | Rojola | BCMM, I have absolutely no idea |
| 22:07.31 | Rojola | BCMM, it's a small provider in a small european country |
| 22:07.39 | BCMM | anyway, you'll be fine with either distro, on that front |
| 22:08.00 | Rojola | I really feel comfortable with both Distros |
| 22:08.07 | Rojola | I have used Debian ever since "Debian Potato" |
| 22:08.14 | mutante | Rojola: so it uses nodejs and mongodb and nginx.. and if they support IPv6 there is no problem |
| 22:08.35 | mutante | Rojola: i think it should be fine but if it's not you can always turn it off again.. go for it and try |
| 22:08.44 | Rojola | and Ubuntu has been nice on Desktops back in the day when you had to manually configure the XF86Config |
| 22:08.54 | Rojola | ok I try it |
| 22:09.00 | donofrio | 2019 keyring updated to 2019 keyring thanks to the aupdate ;)!!! |
| 22:09.02 | BCMM | Rojola: both debian and ubuntu have a kind of old docker package. it works ok for most stuff, but some people end up using docker.io's repos, if they need a current version https://docs.docker.com/install/ |
| 22:09.06 | donofrio | from 2017 |
| 22:09.33 | BCMM | donofrio: ok. now you might wanna turn the security back on :) |
| 22:10.27 | BCMM | Rojola: as for proftpd... what are you doing? why do you have proftpd? |
| 22:10.30 | BCMM | !ftpmustdie |
| 22:10.30 | dpkg | FTP MUST DIE! http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie . For authenticated file transfer, ask me about <sftp>. For unauthenticated download, HTTP: http://daniel.haxx.se/docs/ftp-vs-http.html . Debian ceased offering mirrors via FTP on 2017-11-01 https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170425 |
| 22:11.56 | donofrio | I will....any way this can "get bug checked" so I don't have to do this on each rebuild? |
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| 22:12.51 | donofrio | I thank you all for tolerating me and my ramblings......without your help I'd have reloaded ubuntu 16.04 on this awesome hardware of mine ;) off to go install 1500+ packages to get xfce4 and the like running |
| 22:12.54 | somiaj | donofrio: powerpc is unoffical so no, maybe if someone were to do this a few times and document it, at least we can help the next wayward soul who wants to install powerpc |
| 22:12.56 | Rojola | BCMM, I am using sftp |
| 22:13.07 | Rojola | BCMM, don't I need proftpd to handle sftp connections? |
| 22:13.15 | somiaj | sftp is an ssh extension |
| 22:13.23 | Rojola | oh |
| 22:13.24 | donofrio | opps it broke |
| 22:13.26 | BCMM | Rojola: nope. you're probably confusing ftps and sftp |
| 22:13.28 | somiaj | though I would just use scp/sftp over ssh |
| 22:13.47 | Rojola | so I had proftpd installed on my servers for no reason? :) |
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| 22:13.49 | BCMM | Rojola: ftps is just ftp over tls. like http and https. |
| 22:13.50 | Rojola | good to know |
| 22:14.00 | BCMM | Rojola: it has all of the problems of ftp, except for security |
| 22:14.05 | Rojola | yes, I figured so much, but I thought proftpd would handle it |
| 22:14.20 | donofrio | line 4102 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NgGqkXXWTg/ |
| 22:14.23 | donofrio | ;( |
| 22:14.40 | BCMM | Rojola: sftp is an entirely different, newer protocol. it's part of ssh. if you've got openssh server running, you already have an sftp server |
| 22:15.09 | BCMM | Rojola: you can just log in with your favourite sftp client, and whatever username + key you use to log in with ssh |
| 22:15.29 | BCMM | (you are using a key pair not a password on this presumably internet-facing machine, right?) |
| 22:15.44 | somiaj | donofrio: that is one of the common issues with sid, sometimes depends can't be met, you have to track down the issue and maybe use snapshot.debian.org to help fix it |
| 22:15.55 | donofrio | oh ok.... |
| 22:16.06 | Rojola | BCMM, I am using a normal password |
| 22:16.08 | *** join/#debian orotalt (~orotalt@unaffiliated/f4cl3y) |
| 22:16.09 | donofrio | same debian-ports directory or? |
| 22:16.20 | Rojola | BCMM, but I guess things are changing now - I just installed the droplet, and it works with an SSH key |
| 22:16.21 | somiaj | though libgch-here-dev is probably unneeded package (unless you want to build stuff) you might be able to just remove it |
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| 22:16.31 | donofrio | I'll remove it if I can... |
| 22:16.32 | somiaj | you could try apt-get -f install and see what it wants to do |
| 22:16.53 | BCMM | Rojola: if your server is accessible from the internet you will (not "might") get people trying to brute-force your password |
| 22:17.14 | BCMM | it's ok to use a password instead of a key pair, but be very sure that the password is complex enough |
| 22:17.32 | somiaj | also use fail2ban and/or denyhosts |
| 22:17.42 | somiaj | they work well with ssh and will block failed attempts fairly quickly |
| 22:17.50 | BCMM | botnets will find it and bruteforce it completely automatically; it doesn't matter how boring your server is, it will be targeted anyway |
| 22:18.06 | Rojola | I don't know how much help I am allowed to ask for in this channel. |
| 22:18.12 | Rojola | Is it okay to ask for you to guide me a little here? |
| 22:18.19 | Rojola | for example, I have never used anything but passwords |
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| 22:18.39 | Rojola | concerning fail2ban, I have successfully set that up in the past on a different server |
| 22:18.44 | Rojola | I think I can repeat it |
| 22:19.20 | somiaj | in debian you can just install it and it shoudl be working for ssh, If you want it to monintor other logs you'll have to configure that |
| 22:19.35 | mutante | if the password isnt in any dictionaries you can also just ignore them.. but best is to turn off password based auth in sshd config |
| 22:19.37 | somiaj | (such as if you have apache logins or something) |
| 22:19.37 | BCMM | Rojola: it's ok as long as your passwords are adequately complex. and a lot of people have a poor understanding of what constitutes an adequately complex password |
| 22:19.51 | mutante | setting up fail2ban/denyhosts adds a slight risk to lock out yourself |
| 22:19.52 | somiaj | or at least turn it off for root at a minimium |
| 22:19.52 | BCMM | Rojola: also, that means all passwords that can be used to log in to the system, not just the ones you regularly use |
| 22:20.43 | Rojola | mutante, that happened to me multiple times (locking myself out) but thanks heaven my ISP assigns a new IP address to me every time I disconnect / reconnect to the internet |
| 22:20.46 | BCMM | Rojola: but if you use an ssh key pair and disable password authentication, then you're totally proof against bruteforce |
| 22:21.02 | Rojola | BCMM, please let us do it in a moment |
| 22:21.07 | Rojola | I must solve something else first |
| 22:21.11 | Rojola | I ran a dist-upgrade |
| 22:21.13 | Rojola | https://filebin.net/aejn2rcr8x120tha/grub.png?t=kfuj6b8h |
| 22:21.21 | Rojola | which version ob grub's config do I want to keep? |
| 22:21.24 | mutante | Rojola: 4 steps here..basically.. 1) ssh-keygen to create a new key pair 2) keep the private part save locally somewhere and copy the public part to the server 3) ssh-add to load the private key locally and ssh to server... 4) if it all works.. disabled password based auth in sshd and restart it |
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| 22:22.07 | Rojola | mutante, steps 1-3 were done when I set up the droplet on digital ocean |
| 22:22.13 | Rojola | 4 - not sure |
| 22:22.35 | Rojola | will filezilla know about the sshkey? |
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| 22:23.02 | mutante | Rojola: check for "PasswordAuthentication" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config or so |
| 22:23.30 | Rojola | thank you |
| 22:23.36 | Rojola | which grub version do I want to keep? |
| 22:23.40 | Rojola | I am stuck at that screen |
| 22:23.44 | Rojola | https://filebin.net/aejn2rcr8x120tha/grub.png?t=kfuj6b8h |
| 22:24.11 | mutante | Rojola: most people use an ssh agent to keep the private key loaded in the background.. then apps like filezilla dont need to know about it |
| 22:24.20 | mutante | Rojola: that was the ssh-add part.. after that it should just work |
| 22:24.41 | mutante | but the alternative is to tell it specifically which key to use each time you connect |
| 22:24.46 | Rojola | mutante, the ssh agent is a local thing? |
| 22:24.55 | mutante | Rojola: yes, on your laptop for example |
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| 22:24.58 | Rojola | googles it |
| 22:25.00 | Rojola | thank you mutante |
| 22:25.28 | mutante | you're welcome |
| 22:25.31 | Rojola | as for grub, I select "keep the local version currently installed" |
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| 22:26.06 | mutante | sounds good.. if in doubt i would stick with whatever is the default if you just hit enter |
| 22:27.46 | Rojola | thank you |
| 22:27.55 | Rojola | I will be right back - I just need to focus on sandstorm for a moment |
| 22:28.20 | mutante | i just imagine the darude youtube video when you say that, but cool |
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| 22:31.31 | Rojola | ha! |
| 22:31.38 | Rojola | that did not even cross my mind before |
| 22:31.44 | Rojola | you're right, there was this song back in the day |
| 22:32.05 | Rojola | mutante, wasn't this the song with the melody: "dada da dadadadadada daaaa dadadaaaaa..." |
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| 22:34.15 | Rojola1 | re |
| 22:34.21 | Rojola1 | I think I got disconnected for a short moment |
| 22:34.23 | Rojola1 | sorry |
| 22:34.34 | mutante | Rojola: i am not very good at text2melody , but yes :) |
| 22:34.49 | mutante | dada dadadadada |
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| 22:36.23 | Rojola1 | :) |
| 22:36.24 | humpled | Ode to Joy? |
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| 22:37.59 | karlpinc | mutante: IMO the right approach is to have a single identity, a single key, and just use that all the time. |
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| 22:43.17 | Rojola1 | I am amazed. |
| 22:43.31 | Rojola1 | getting the new server to run on DO took me less than 20 minutes |
| 22:43.39 | Rojola1 | setting up Wekan took another 5 minutes |
| 22:43.43 | Rojola1 | I am extremely happy |
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| 22:53.17 | uio | Well, just for kicks I decided to try the /home/user/Téléchargements/firmware-9.9.0-i386-netinst.iso on the eeepc. Not working. Not impressed. I'm like 45 minutes in and it's saying that the install software step failed. So I am rerunning the step, but now it's saying /media/cdrom:Please insert the disc labeled: 'Debian GNU/Linux 9.9.0 _Stretch.... But I hadn't touched the usb. So I tried unplugging the usb and putting it back it. Stil |
| 22:53.17 | uio | l nothing. Seriously Debian, is this for real? |
| 22:53.54 | uio | So, now I'm stuck in a failed install? |
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| 22:56.34 | blackflow | uio: I thought you moved to lubuntu? |
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| 22:57.34 | uio | blackflow, Oh I did, but wanted to give the non-free route a try. Now I think it hard to not see that Debian has some issues. |
| 22:57.44 | humpled | heheh |
| 22:57.55 | jmcnaught | uio: how did you copy the image to the USB stick? |
| 22:58.02 | uio | dd |
| 22:58.23 | uio | I got like halfway through the install process though! |
| 22:58.32 | uio | I guess that's positive. |
| 22:58.47 | jmcnaught | uio: did you copy the image to the device or to a partition? |
| 22:58.58 | humpled | but then it chroots and wham, forgets where the drive is mounted |
| 22:59.03 | uio | Although before I was actually able to get an os. |
| 22:59.29 | uio | sudo dd if=/home/user/Téléchargements/firmware-9.9.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=4M status=progress && sync |
| 22:59.54 | dvs | uio, you don't need sync for dd |
| 23:00.04 | uio | dvs cool. |
| 23:00.33 | uio | Like, honestly, is it just me, or should this not be happening? |
| 23:01.04 | uio | I did the same thing for Lubuntu and had zero issues. Why is Debian having such a hard time? |
| 23:01.16 | uio | Can't blame it on the firmware this time. |
| 23:01.31 | uio | So abort install? |
| 23:01.34 | jmcnaught | uio: are you here to troubleshoot or complain? |
| 23:02.06 | uio | I'm here for the former but I think that the latter is well merited. |
| 23:02.49 | humpled | you can complain all you like but it won't make a blind bit of difference to anything |
| 23:03.21 | jmcnaught | The more you complain the less people feel like helping. Do you have another USB stick you could try? |
| 23:03.40 | karlpinc | dvs: When is sync called for these days? |
| 23:03.49 | dvs | karlpinc, cp\ |
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| 23:04.08 | karlpinc | dvs: Ok. Thanks. |
| 23:04.14 | dvs | np |
| 23:04.17 | uio | jmcnaught, I may have other usbs, but I need to understand why Debian needs a different usn when other distros don't. |
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| 23:04.50 | jmcnaught | uio: troubleshooting involves eliminating possibilities. Anyways good luck. |
| 23:04.52 | karlpinc | dvs: (I always wind up umount-ing after the cp-s that I care about that would warrent a sync.) |
| 23:05.25 | uio | jmcnaught, Right, I agree, I just don't see how the usb could be faulty if other distros can run off it. |
| 23:06.29 | dvs | karlpinc, if you are copying an ISO image to a mounted USB then you're doing it wrong. |
| 23:06.31 | karlpinc | uio: Is this the stretch (stable) installer? (Just curious.) |
| 23:06.41 | karlpinc | dvs: Nope. Just a file. |
| 23:06.45 | uio | jmcnaught, I'm hesitant to just 'try' things because I did that for seven hours today with Debian, so I'm trying to think things out before going too far. |
| 23:06.52 | blackflow | uio: btw why are you bothering with the firmware iso? you installed debian already and have access to console. |
| 23:07.10 | uio | karlpinc, I used the non-free cd. |
| 23:08.04 | uio | blackflow, Oh, the idea was thrown around here in a 'Don't try the non-free iso on a laptop' way, so I thought, why not, let's go. Access was onlt via external monitor. |
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| 23:09.04 | blackflow | uio: uh no, you got it all wrong. that iso is needed only if you need firmware during the installation. it contains absolutely no additional magick than non-free/firmware packages you can install regularly |
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| 23:09.40 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 23:09.40 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from <http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/>. Follow the current/ link for stable, daily-builds/ or weekly-builds/ for testing. |
| 23:09.50 | uio | blackflow, Tell greycat that too. |
| 23:09.56 | tds | uio - in the past I've seen the installer fail to mount /media/cdrom properly, just dropping to a shell and mounting by hand sorts that |
| 23:10.20 | blackflow | greycat knows that, but he didn't know that you installed debian just fine, and that it runs just fine _except_ with display through the wrong VGA port on your eeepc. |
| 23:10.23 | karlpinc | The above installs non-free firmware when needed. |
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| 23:11.19 | uio | But it the end there was no solution. That's what gets me. Lubuntu beat Debian at that for sure. |
| 23:11.33 | blackflow | then install lubuntu and stop wasting your time :) |
| 23:12.44 | uio | blackflow, That's what I'm doing now. Preparing the flash drive. But I must admit that this failed install made me lose a lot of esteem for Debian. |
| 23:13.04 | uio | I mean, sure maybe one has to put in a bit more time, but like seven hours?? |
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| 23:13.13 | humpled | seven? |
| 23:13.17 | humpled | more like 14 |
| 23:13.21 | uio | eight. |
| 23:13.26 | humpled | and that's just since i got in |
| 23:13.27 | uio | Oh, I took a break. |
| 23:13.53 | blackflow | uio: you're complaining about a very rare and edge case, and greycat already explained to you why that is. if you're gonna judge entire distro based on such a single edge case, then you have a problem. |
| 23:13.55 | uio | Right, I think a good distro shouldn't require that. I would'nt recommend such a distro to friend! |
| 23:14.08 | humpled | good |
| 23:14.49 | uio | blackflow, Our judgements come from our experiences. |
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| 23:15.11 | blackflow | experience with one single eeepcs having video output through wrong port.... dude... |
| 23:15.35 | uio | blackflow, Then why can Lubuntu do it so easily??? |
| 23:15.42 | blackflow | at any rate, this is becoming very annoying. good luck with lubuntu. move on, stop wasting your time. |
| 23:15.45 | uio | Can't Debian get its shit together too? |
| 23:16.04 | blackflow | no. bye now. |
| 23:16.19 | humpled | run lspci -nnk | grep -iA3 network or similar in lubuntu and we might find out :D |
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| 23:17.17 | humpled | errm, VGA not network, whatever |
| 23:17.42 | uio | I love how when Debian doesn't work the problem is never Debian. |
| 23:18.10 | jezebel | uio⦠debian is what you make it, if you believe it is debian at fault, feel free to file a bug report |
| 23:18.38 | blackflow | humpled: *ubuntu adds a lot of "SAUCE" patches to the kernel in order to support a variety of consumer hardware. this comes at a price which uio will find out with one of the next few updates which regularly break boot. |
| 23:19.25 | jezebel | it wont hold your hands the way some distros will, but you get a lot of freedom in return - you make your system the way you want |
| 23:20.49 | jezebel | there are more barebones distros out there, but debian strikes the right balance for me, your ideals for a system may differ |
| 23:21.12 | jezebel | distro hop until you find what you like! |
| 23:21.21 | uio | jezebel, My ideal was: 'boots with display'. |
| 23:21.46 | jezebel | define display |
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| 23:22.03 | blackflow | jezebel: this whole hubbub is over default output on their eeepc being the VGA port instead of the built-in screen. and I'll bet ya a trainful of cookies that they never tried to force default device via xorg.conf, as has been suggested before. |
| 23:22.50 | blackflow | xorg.conf, kernel video= cmdline option, xrandr hack, whatever... there's a number of possibilities, one just has to find out which one is specific to their situation. |
| 23:23.12 | mutante | karlpinc: yea, i didn't actually suggest to have multiple identities, did i |
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| 23:24.54 | blackflow | neway, I'm out, EOD |
| 23:25.19 | uio | Well, cheers. Thanks for trying to help and I still have Debian on my thinkpad. |
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| 23:34.24 | zoredache | is the buster mini.iso netboot installer supposed to just give you a grub prompt? |
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| 23:37.25 | zoredache | If I try to boot the mini.iso on a hyper-v (gen2) VM and it just drops directly into grub prompt |
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| 23:44.51 | donofrio_ | well I'm sending this from the g5 ;) https://imgur.com/hrJNzbr.png |
| 23:45.02 | donofrio_ | https://paste.debian.net/1089561/ |
| 23:45.11 | donofrio_ | doesn't want to install firefox |
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| 23:45.33 | met | congrats, looks like you got it running |
| 23:45.46 | met | try firefox-esr |
| 23:45.52 | donofrio_ | I did ;) except I have *zero* gui webbrowser |
| 23:45.56 | donofrio_ | ok I'll try that |
| 23:46.38 | donofrio_ | https://paste.debian.net/1089562/ |
| 23:46.40 | donofrio_ | ;( |
| 23:47.37 | donofrio_ | https://paste.debian.net/1089562/ |
| 23:47.45 | donofrio_ | opps mispaste |
| 23:48.30 | donofrio_ | https://paste.debian.net/1089563 is inxi info |
| 23:48.57 | donofrio_ | nice to see you folk have it updated (weather was broken on ubuntu 16.04 lol) |
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| 23:51.01 | met | huh, you're running sid :o |
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| 23:53.14 | rocketmagnet | hello everyone |
| 23:53.29 | rocketmagnet | i have a strange problem, i just did a reboot and now he's not enterin X11 (debian with lightdm), i get the error message: snd_hda_codec_hdmi ndaudioC1D0 HDMI: invalid ELD data.... it's a dualboot and windows works normaly, what is heppening ?? |
| 23:53.40 | donofrio_ | https://paste.debian.net/1089564/ - nothing working ;( |
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| 23:53.55 | donofrio_ | E: Package 'libgcrypt11-dev' has no installation candidate |
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| 23:55.46 | met | ,v libgcrypt11-dev |
| 23:55.47 | judd | Package: libgcrypt11-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u5; stretch: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3 |
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| 23:56.28 | donofrio_ | what about ppc64 |
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| 23:57.18 | met | maybe there's an arch switch for the bot |
| 23:57.24 | met | ,v libgcrypt11-dev ppc64 |
| 23:57.25 | judd | Package: libgcrypt11-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u5; stretch: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3 |
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| 23:57.32 | met | ,v libgcrypt11-dev:ppc64 |
| 23:57.33 | judd | No package named 'libgcrypt11-dev:ppc64' was found in amd64. |
| 23:57.36 | met | sigh |
| 23:58.02 | met | looks like you have to use w3m||links||lynx packages.debian.org/libgcrypt11-dev |
| 23:58.16 | winny | maybe you mean ppc64el |
| 23:58.25 | donofrio_ | I'm using lynx right now but whoa |
| 23:58.25 | met | why are you running unstable and not testing btw? |
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| 23:58.56 | donofrio_ | I dunno I'll install whatever version I should be at just figured sid would have newest firefox ubuntu 16.04 has old firefox |
| 23:58.58 | winny | oh donofrio_ are you running old stable? |
| 23:59.00 | jmcnaught | donofrio_ is using debian-ports which is only available as unstable |
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| 23:59.25 | winny | i'm wondering because i didn't see ppc64 or ppc for anything other than old debian releases |
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| 23:59.50 | winny | (i'd like to be proven wrong though) |
