| 00:00.02 | maxxe | excellent |
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| 00:01.03 | dvs | oh no! |
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| 00:05.19 | annadane | want me to file more bugs, dvs? |
| 00:05.40 | dvs | hurry! |
| 00:06.23 | annadane | libreoffice... crashes... when the computer is turned on and executes malicious code |
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| 00:10.08 | tete_ | <cybercrypto> Debian 10 tomorrow! :-))))) <-- even when rc bugs are open? |
| 00:10.38 | dvs | tete_, nah, those packages should just be dropped. |
| 00:10.44 | dvs | files a bug against the kernel |
| 00:10.47 | dvs | muhahaha |
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| 00:12.28 | annadane | yeah at a certain point you just have to remove certain packages |
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| 00:26.34 | annadane | this is a fun post i came across, if anyone's interested https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/c8qp4u/interesting_new_packages_mostly_desktop_to_try_in/ |
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| 01:31.46 | lembron | uhm, "where does stdout/stderr of start-stop-daemon go?" - i dont want it to go anywhere and are aware of -1/-2 params - but the question is where does it go when those are NOT given? |
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| 01:32.41 | lembron | does that just flow away into /dev/null and good is? --- or will i rip some memorybuffer if i spit out a few GB of "junk" there? ;D |
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| 01:45.08 | jmcnaught | lembron: if you are using systemd then the default for services is stdout and stderr are sent to the journal |
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| 01:45.53 | lembron | so okay for error log, not okay for access log hm.... :/ |
| 01:46.07 | Tom-_ | take-over-your-system-d |
| 01:46.32 | lembron | trying to merge docker&virtualbox configs... |
| 01:47.39 | astronavt | has anyone had a problem with xfce + light-locker where the latter simply shuts off the screen instead of locking the screen? |
| 01:47.58 | astronavt | installing xscreensaver fixed the issue, apparently by causing xflock4 to use xscreensaver in lieu of light-locker |
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| 01:49.29 | astronavt | i asked in #xfce and they basically said "we don't maintain or support light-locker or xscreensaver" |
| 01:49.43 | astronavt | (which is of course true) |
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| 01:58.34 | Unit193 | astronavt: What's triggering it to shut off the screen? If xflock4, then that's been patched in newer releases of Debian to account for light-locker (and xfce4-screensaver) too. |
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| 01:59.35 | astronavt | Unit193, it used to shut off when i pressed the "Lock Screen" XFCE action button (or used an equivalent keyboard shortcut), or if the power manager locked the screen for me |
| 01:59.49 | astronavt | i'm using debian testing as well so ostensibly i have the latest (packaged) version of xflock4 |
| 02:00.25 | terr_ | What release of Debian is recomended. I already downloaded it and installed it and I need to find what version I got. I have lot my passwaord adn if I can find what I did last January I might be able to pick up the dropped reins |
| 02:00.54 | terr_ | I can search the windows equivalent of user/home |
| 02:01.18 | Unit193 | astronavt: That means you'll have https://sources.debian.org/src/xfce4-session/4.12.1-6/debian/patches/03_xflock4-update-lockers-list.patch/, so yes it should be calling `light-locker-command --lock`, can you try that? |
| 02:02.15 | astronavt | Unit193, i've had that command queued up in my terminal for a few hours now :) been clearing out tabs and wrapping up to-dos (just in case i can't get my screen back and have to hard reset). should be able to try it in a few |
| 02:02.33 | astronavt | also usually i would get my screen back after the computer was put to sleep |
| 02:02.58 | astronavt | so the screen would shut off, but then after some 15 mins or so i would be able to move the mouse and it would wake up like normal. weird interactions... |
| 02:03.06 | Unit193 | light-locker is a bit finicky IME, so I never used it long and always went back to xscreensaver for session locking, now I use xfce4-screensaver though. |
| 02:03.18 | astronavt | is that packaged yet? |
| 02:03.27 | Unit193 | It won't be in Buster. |
| 02:03.36 | astronavt | not in testing? |
| 02:03.52 | Unit193 | Nope, just unstable/experimental. |
| 02:03.53 | terr_ | Progress. I've got GRUB! I can press e and c |
| 02:03.55 | astronavt | ah |
| 02:04.20 | terr_ | I think c will give me single user mode. Is this right? |
| 02:04.22 | astronavt | Unit193 so is the "login" screen provided by the screen locking program or by lightdm? |
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| 02:05.31 | Unit193 | light-locker uses lightdm, technically if you switch back to VT7 you'll see a note about light-locker locked the screen, so technically lightdm is just the login screen. |
| 02:08.53 | binaryhermit | hrm |
| 02:09.12 | binaryhermit | is there a set time buster comes out |
| 02:09.23 | astronavt | interesting thanks Unit193 |
| 02:09.25 | binaryhermit | anyway, I'll shut up |
| 02:10.22 | Unit193 | astronavt: The vt switching is what sometimes causes issues, once xfce4-screensaver becomes more available it might be something to look into. |
| 02:10.47 | astronavt | ok thanks. for now i will live with the delightfully retro xscreensaver |
| 02:10.54 | astronavt | if only the rest of my DE looked this retro |
| 02:11.06 | astronavt | actually is there a way to get xfce to look as wonderfully ugly as xscreensaver |
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| 02:14.02 | Unit193 | gtk3-nocsd and an ugly theme? |
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| 02:15.17 | terr_ | I want to search my user directory for the debian install set - windows - if I look for all .iso files will I find it? |
| 02:17.38 | astronavt | Unit193, im still new to linux desktop. a GTK theme? |
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| 02:18.11 | bazhang | gtk is gnome tool kit |
| 02:18.18 | bazhang | a gnome theme |
| 02:18.31 | astronavt | yeah i know that much. ok so not _that_ new anymore |
| 02:18.45 | astronavt | i was reading on the nocsd readme that gtk overrides the wm window decorations |
| 02:18.54 | astronavt | so it would be an ugly xfce theme that i need |
| 02:19.03 | astronavt | and gtk-nocsd in order to make damn sure that everything is ugly |
| 02:19.24 | bazhang | why ugly |
| 02:19.35 | Unit193 | clearlooks-phenix-theme perhaps? |
| 02:19.47 | bazhang | just go for straight up gnome for that |
| 02:19.53 | astronavt | bazhang, if found xscreensaver charming |
| 02:19.54 | astronavt | i found* |
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| 02:20.21 | Unit193 | https://screenshots.debian.net/package/clearlooks-phenix-theme screenshots of the one I mentioned. |
| 02:20.45 | astronavt | definitely not ugly enough :P |
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| 02:20.52 | Unit193 | bazhang: He's going for '90s classic ugly' as far as I can tell. |
| 02:20.54 | astronavt | i need some non-antialised serif fonts |
| 02:20.55 | astronavt | yes |
| 02:20.57 | astronavt | 90s ugly |
| 02:21.03 | Unit193 | Not sure why, but eh. |
| 02:21.26 | bazhang | cough go for the vixta look |
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| 02:21.45 | bazhang | exact same as vista but for linux |
| 02:22.18 | bazhang | thanks a tonne Unit193 for re-upping my ops |
| 02:22.21 | astronavt | hah! i want nostalgia not bad memories |
| 02:22.36 | magic_ninja_work | man, my battery life is getting killed here. |
| 02:22.37 | astronavt | i was too young in the 90s to have bad memories of computing then |
| 02:22.45 | magic_ninja_work | Oh I do. |
| 02:23.01 | magic_ninja_work | When your computer broke at best you went to a neighbor/friend's house to use the internet and find help. |
| 02:23.20 | magic_ninja_work | I was only 10 or 11, so I put all the parts in grocery bags and rode them on my bike. |
| 02:23.35 | terr_ | well I tried the *.iso idea and I have both Debian-9.7.0 and winntsp5 in downloads. But when I used the STUPID windows GUI it showed empty. |
| 02:23.53 | Unit193 | astronavt: I mean, the ones here https://github.com/jpfleury/clearlooks-phenix look pretty classic to me. :) |
| 02:23.56 | magic_ninja_work | what are you trying to do? |
| 02:24.23 | Unit193 | bazhang: Sure thing? |
| 02:24.56 | magic_ninja_work | I want to try and get my energy rate here below 14W |
| 02:25.20 | astronavt | Unit193 that reminds me a lot of the early OSX days |
| 02:25.53 | Unit193 | magic_ninja_work: I don't know about GNOME, but xfce4-power-manager can show you what's making the most wakeup calls, afaik. Also you'll want to ensure nothing's pegging the CPU, causing the fans to kick in more. |
| 02:25.57 | astronavt | tbh it reminds me a lot of the xfce defaults... |
| 02:27.41 | Unit193 | astronavt: Numix/Greybird can make Xfce actually look nice, I'd recommend the elementary-xfce-icon-theme myself. |
| 02:27.47 | magic_ninja_work | I was honestly thinking about trying lxde on here as opposed to kde |
| 02:27.57 | astronavt | hmmm ok. an actually nice looking theme would be appealing too |
| 02:28.05 | astronavt | you like those icons w/ numix? |
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| 02:32.02 | magic_ninja_work | Def gotta figure this out though. I really don't want to go from 6-7 hours on a full charge to 2.5-3.5 |
| 02:33.21 | annadane | there's some package that improves battery life |
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| 02:34.09 | annadane | tlp |
| 02:34.27 | Unit193 | astronavt: Personally yes, though I've had to slightly modify Numix to fit my liking better. Of course, Numix has its own icons too. |
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| 02:36.53 | annadane | post with slightly more details https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/a5w8h7/extending_debian_battery_life/ebqzapa/ |
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| 02:41.18 | xakatagawa | I just upgraded from debian stretch 9 to debian 10 and my desktop icons are gone. Any way to fix this? |
| 02:42.20 | Unit193 | ,i gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons |
| 02:42.21 | judd | No package named 'gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons' was found in stretch/amd64. |
| 02:42.22 | magic_ninja_work | annadane, thanks, checking it out |
| 02:42.32 | Unit193 | ,v gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons |
| 02:42.33 | judd | Package: gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons on amd64 -- buster: 19.01.1-1; sid: 19.01.1-1; experimental: 19.01.3-1 |
| 02:43.05 | magic_ninja_work | yea, so I do have tlp installed |
| 02:43.10 | magic_ninja_work | I'll see what is eating up power |
| 02:43.41 | xakatagawa | just installed that package, judd. They're still gone |
| 02:44.11 | xakatagawa | I mean, Unit193 |
| 02:44.47 | Unit193 | xakatagawa: Not a clue then, sorry. I do not use GNOME. |
| 02:45.08 | xakatagawa | I'll try rebooting |
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| 02:48.45 | xakatagawa | that didn't work |
| 02:49.05 | xakatagawa | anyone else have any suggestions for bringing back the desktop icons? |
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| 02:50.25 | magic_ninja_work | Runtime PM for PCI Device NVIDIA Corporation GM107M [GeForce GTX 960M] kind of odd that this is here. |
| 02:50.34 | magic_ninja_work | I don't even have a driver installed for it. |
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| 02:53.28 | magic_ninja_work | I'm going to see about disabling it in the bios |
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| 02:56.16 | DracoSentien | is buster on track to be released tomorrow ? |
| 02:57.51 | xakatagawa | when will debian 10 stretch be released? |
| 02:58.01 | annadane | debian 10 is buster, not stretch |
| 02:58.05 | annadane | and, tomorrow sometime |
| 02:58.18 | DracoSentien | annadane: sweet thanks |
| 02:58.33 | xakatagawa | cool |
| 02:58.38 | annadane | y'all need to subscribe to mailing lists :P |
| 02:59.05 | binaryhermit | some time zones it's today, I believe |
| 02:59.16 | DracoSentien | annadane: why ? I'm not a debian developer |
| 02:59.22 | binaryhermit | more or less everything east of North America, I believe |
| 02:59.45 | annadane | https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/ and https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/ are good to subscribe to |
| 03:00.01 | annadane | yes well, "tomorrow" in eastern north american time |
| 03:00.57 | xakatagawa | and that's the stable version that will be released tomorrow? |
| 03:01.14 | annadane | yes |
| 03:01.41 | xakatagawa | hopefully that update will bring back my desktop icons \ |
| 03:01.57 | annadane | that being said i was not pleased when there was recently a 30 message interchange about some person's controversial opinions about microcode on debian-security-announce |
| 03:02.02 | annadane | STFU and stop clogging my inbox |
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| 03:04.06 | DracoSentien | annadane: yeah, that is why I am not subscribed. I check apt-cache for updates everyday for security |
| 03:04.24 | jim | any showstoppers preventing release tomorrow? |
| 03:04.36 | DracoSentien | not apt-cache maybe just apt rather , oops |
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| 03:11.19 | DracoSentien | annadane: anyway, certain projects and things have their mailing lists online via marc.info |
| 03:11.29 | DracoSentien | annadane: not debian though but OpenBSD etc... does |
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| 03:11.34 | DracoSentien | that is kind of useful |
| 03:12.21 | annadane | well lists.debian.org has all the archives |
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| 03:15.10 | DracoSentien | annadane: oh, cool , thanks |
| 03:20.27 | DracoSentien | annadane: I found buster iso images from the second of july. They should be stable enough for now then I'll just keep upgrading until it reaches stable |
| 03:21.42 | DracoSentien | I guess the hardest thing I'll have to do is edit the apt sources.list when it changes from unstable to stable |
| 03:21.50 | magic_ninja_work | DracoSentien, I'm one one. They are fine. |
| 03:22.00 | annadane | uhhhhhh. |
| 03:22.07 | annadane | that sentence raises huge red flags |
| 03:22.08 | magic_ninja_work | DracoSentien, I used a non-free buster RC image. It already has it set up. |
| 03:23.02 | DracoSentien | magic_ninja_work: yeah, I'm downloading the netinst image so I should be fine |
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| 03:24.29 | binaryhermit | I would think the images would use the codename (buster) instead of "testing" |
| 03:24.52 | binaryhermit | but haven't installed debian from a debian-installer image in a long time |
| 03:26.12 | binaryhermit | unless you're on sid/unstable, not using a codename could have surprising consequences, like your system randomly changing releases without you expecting it |
| 03:26.20 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: oh, thanks , you indirectly reminded me of something the netinst is not going to work because my wifi firmware is non-free |
| 03:26.34 | binaryhermit | that's the sort of thing you want to plan on doing yourself |
| 03:26.37 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: I'm installing it over mxlinux I'm not upgrading from Debian 9.9 |
| 03:27.08 | binaryhermit | are you wiping the system? If not, that's how you get a frankendebian |
| 03:27.26 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: definitely wiping the system |
| 03:27.38 | binaryhermit | or at least /, if you have a separate /home or something along those lines it should be ok |
| 03:29.00 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: I've done slackware installs and OpenBSD installs but I find installing Debian with non-free wifi firmware the hardest because the default shell commands are small like busybox |
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| 03:29.15 | DracoSentien | and it supposed to automatically find the firmware but it fails on me |
| 03:29.19 | DracoSentien | when it scans for it |
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| 03:30.22 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: in order to do this install I am going to have to use my LAN ethernet jack then after install -- install the firmware for my wifi |
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| 03:33.28 | binaryhermit | well, good luck, I don't know how to be helpful |
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| 03:34.48 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: I don't need help as I have been using linux since 1997 and installed Debian slink in 1998 when I needed compile a kernel just to get sound to work and there was no gnome/kde but WindowMaker |
| 03:35.02 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: I'm just saying the Debian installer leaves somethings to be desired |
| 03:35.17 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: that is why Linus Torvalds uses Fedora instead of Debian |
| 03:35.25 | binaryhermit | a lot of installers do |
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| 03:37.31 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: true |
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| 03:40.48 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: firmware is a pain in the ass with the OpenBSD installer too so it's both philosophical with Debian and OpenBSD rather than lack of technical skills |
| 03:41.01 | DracoSentien | binaryhermit: non-free firmware that is |
| 03:43.02 | jmcnaught | DracoSentien: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/buster_di_rc3+nonfree/ |
| 03:43.29 | jmcnaught | that contains most firmwares |
| 03:43.42 | DracoSentien | jmcnaught: I tried that for 9.9 and it did not contain my wifi firmware |
| 03:43.51 | DracoSentien | maybe buster contains newer support for hardwdare |
| 03:44.19 | DracoSentien | athn10k or something |
| 03:44.36 | jmcnaught | maybe, what kind of wifi is it? There are some firmware that need to be downloaded directly from the manufacturer, and those are not on the firmware image |
| 03:44.57 | DracoSentien | jmcnaught: atheros , and the firmware is in the Debian apt repo |
| 03:45.17 | DracoSentien | jmcnaught: no big deal I'll just use my lan ethernet at first |
| 03:45.19 | DracoSentien | later |
| 03:45.21 | DracoSentien | thanks |
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| 04:46.27 | OS_10000 | HI |
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| 04:52.57 | lvrp16 | is it me or is buster's grub-arm64-efi completely broken? |
| 04:53.11 | lvrp16 | "failed to open venhw" "failed to load image venhw" |
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| 04:57.23 | n0a110w | can someone point out the i386 mac-netinst iso? compatible with the macmini1,1.. should be debian-mac-XXX-netinst.iso , i'm just not seeing it |
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| 05:05.19 | xormor | n0a110w, mac mini uses the amd64 iso. |
| 05:05.41 | xormor | n0a110w, it all depends whether it is an i386 or amd64 mac. |
| 05:07.09 | n0a110w | its i386, found it and installed before , just can't find the link again |
| 05:08.00 | xormor | n0a110w, I do not think mac has a different iso. it is now the same i386 that the other i386 architecture computers use. |
| 05:08.08 | n0a110w | its the macmini1,1 the first 2006 model. debian runs rock solid on it. trying to get debian 9 or maybe even 10 on it |
| 05:10.11 | n0a110w | no, the macmini1,1 is special case . firmware is buggy so the iso i'm looking for should only have one el torrito boot record |
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| 05:18.54 | n0a110w | this wiki page references the iso, but i can't find it... https://wiki.debian.org/MacMiniIntel |
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| 05:19.06 | jmcnaught | https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/buster_di_rc3/i386/iso-cd/debian-mac-buster-DI-rc3-i386-netinst.iso |
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| 05:20.28 | n0a110w | thanks!! |
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| 05:43.55 | Lyberta | is buster release today? |
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| 05:46.40 | antto | that's what i heard yesterday |
| 05:46.50 | antto | !buster |
| 05:46.50 | dpkg | The release following Debian 9 "Stretch" is codenamed "Buster" (Andy's pet Dachshund in Toy Story) and will be Debian 10. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00005.html, This release is well into its freeze and you can help test it out! Ask me about <install buster> <stretch->buster>. |
| 05:47.49 | a0z | !buster release |
| 05:47.49 | dpkg | Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html). Celebrate by attending, or hosting, a buster release party: https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBuster |
| 05:48.00 | antto | ah, that ^ |
| 05:48.29 | antto | so either it's today, or it was last month, on the 7th |
| 05:48.30 | antto | ;P~ |
| 05:49.35 | binaryhermit | it's today |
| 05:49.46 | binaryhermit | dates like that are yyyy-mm-dd |
| 05:51.37 | blackflow | yeah, year first is ISO yyyy-mm-dd[T]hh:mm:ss. otherwise could be day first, or month first, depending on locale.... |
| 05:51.41 | antto | you never know ;P~ |
| 05:51.46 | Sir_Cheer | ....elacol no gnidneped ,tsrif htnom ro ,tsrif yad eb dluoc esiwrehto .ss:mm:hh[T]dd-mm-yyyy OSI si tsrif raey ,haey >wolfkcalb< |
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| 06:23.40 | jeddi | iso 8601 ftw |
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| 06:44.36 | annadane | death to writing dates-like-this |
| 06:44.44 | annadane | just say month day yadda yadda so nobody gets confused |
| 06:45.26 | antto | no |
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| 06:45.50 | antto | dd mm yyyy or yyyy mm dd |
| 06:46.00 | antto | everything else is FUUU |
| 06:46.31 | Lyberta | just write the amount of Planch times since Big Bang, let's not be Earthists |
| 06:46.37 | Lyberta | Planck* |
| 06:47.12 | antto | * integer overflow |
| 06:47.40 | at0m | Lyberta: if you have the history of the Hubble constant ;p |
| 06:47.53 | Lyberta | well I actually did the math and looks like 256 bit integer should be enough until the heath death of universe |
| 06:47.59 | Lyberta | heat* |
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| 06:49.08 | antto | not if we bend time to run slower towards the "end" |
| 06:49.19 | antto | then we will have infinite time left |
| 06:49.34 | antto | (with some side effects tho) |
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| 06:50.16 | livin | hi |
| 06:50.45 | Lyberta | antto, sure then, encode all 11 dimensions that M-theory? proposes to the Planck scale, that way we get accurate spacetimestamp |
| 06:51.20 | antto | i don't get this string theory sh*t |
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| 06:51.48 | antto | maybe the maths behind it do make more sense than the "string" explanation |
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| 06:59.42 | xormor | annadane, mathematically spoken 2019-07-06 and 6.7.2019 makes sense to computers and people the most. people can get confused if it is month-day-year. but month/day/year make more sense to people. the punctuation gives hint to the ordering of the time fields. |
| 07:00.45 | at0m | "month/day/year make more sense to people" what continent you on? |
| 07:00.46 | xormor | annadane, as a European and a computer user I often think about what is the most "logical looking". I use the metric system and certain ways to denote time as a European. |
| 07:01.39 | xormor | at0m, Europe. I live in Finland. it is a "mathematical computer way" to denote it. it has to make sense to computers AND people, in a logical way. |
| 07:01.59 | at0m | we commonly day/month/year here (non anglosaxan). but for file sorting, YYYY-MM-DD makes total sense |
| 07:02.53 | xormor | at0m, we too, usually. we use "." as punctuation usually. |
| 07:03.26 | xormor | at0m, I was actually a bit tired, I meant to say "month/day/year" does NOT make so much sense to people and computers. |
| 07:03.43 | at0m | for example my music projects, pics, what not, are all sorted by YYYY-MM-DD |
| 07:03.45 | xormor | at0m, but the Americans use that sometimes because they are used to it. |
| 07:03.52 | at0m | xormor: exactly |
| 07:03.59 | at0m | but doesnt make sense at all |
| 07:04.25 | at0m | it's just how they would speak it out aloud, as in july 4th $year |
| 07:04.42 | xormor | at0m, that makes sense to me. YYYY-MM-DD is the best, and DD.MM.YYYY is the second best. big-endian versus little endian, to say it in a computer slang. |
| 07:04.44 | at0m | oops we're in #debian |
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| 07:05.22 | at0m | DD.MM.YYYY is ok in correspondence, for example. but try sorting that =) |
| 07:07.41 | xormor | at0m, it is the norm usually in Finland, at least it used to be. the health care authorities often write in some XX/YY way, or the other way YY/XX. I wonder if they use the date, AND the month, AND the year how they write it. I could check my health care database, what the doctor wrote there. I saw it on some pieces of paper too. |
| 07:10.01 | xormor | debian is a computer operating system, it should use YYYY/MM/DD. if I wrote it to a Finn I would write it like: DD.MM.YYYY if it is not necessary to sort it, on paper or in a computer/computing system. I would use the YYYY/MM/DD in a file system or a database. |
| 07:11.56 | rant | in computing we generally just use something like epoch time for this purpose |
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| 07:12.21 | rant | the formatting of the human redable date is solely an output formality |
| 07:12.21 | xormor | rant, that is the old UNIX way. |
| 07:12.31 | rant | its not just UNIX that does this |
| 07:12.32 | xormor | rant, in UNIX. |
| 07:12.36 | xormor | rant, ok :) |
| 07:12.42 | xormor | rant, so do Windows and others use it too? |
| 07:12.56 | rant | Javascript has for a long time used cookie timing in the same format.. lookup the maxage parameter in javascript |
| 07:13.36 | xormor | rant, I think Linux uses it, but Linux is a UNIX clone, not an actual UNIX. Linux is the kernel, and the system tools can be GNU or others. there are all kinds of licenses, but one of them is the GNU license. |
| 07:14.26 | xormor | rant, I see. actually it tells probably that the original UNIX was in use starting in 1970. |
| 07:14.33 | humpled | hallelujah |
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| 07:17.07 | rant | at the core linux measures time in jiffies and most all kernels measure time based on the cycle of their operation specific to the hardware based on when they started executing.. alignment of that internal time keeping with real world time and formatting of date strings is all high level stuff and when done right should make absolutely no difference and be a matter of user preference |
| 07:17.45 | xormor | rant, I think C was developed in 1969 and UNIX's development started in 1970. the "real UNIX" was AT&T (Bell Labs) and I think it become history in the 1970's, probably mid- or end of 1970's. then it forked, and there was something called "Single Unix Specification". there were all kinds of forks, versions, types of "UNIX-like operating systems" and "UNIX family operating systems". I think BSD is a kind of fork. GNU was written from scratch, so was |
| 07:17.45 | xormor | Linux. And Debian is a distro like several others. Ubuntu is a Debian derivative, and then there is Mint and many many others. There are lots of "Linux systems" and "GNU/Linux systems". Android is a Linux system and Debian is GNU/Linux, most commonly. |
| 07:18.34 | xormor | rant, interesting. should I google "jiffies"? |
| 07:19.25 | xormor | https://elinux.org/Kernel_Timer_Systems |
| 07:19.35 | rant | xormor: *shrug* if you like.. thats been around since the beginning, a creation of Linus himself if I'm not mistaken.. |
| 07:20.33 | xormor | Debian has the Linux kernel, usually. There used to be other kernels for Debian. I think Debian uses GNU tools and GNU license, often. |
| 07:20.49 | rant | I believe the default output of dmesg is in jiffies if not used with -T |
| 07:21.03 | xormor | rant, thanks, I will try it out. |
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| 07:23.56 | rant | no, it seems dmesg is just in seconds |
| 07:24.04 | *** join/#debian k000 (~k000@186.210.226.65) |
| 07:24.05 | EdePopede | uh, does find not have any exclude option? do i really have to filter out results with grep? |
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| 07:25.09 | rant | EdePopede: I'm not a find guru but I believe it uses a standard negate option ! |
| 07:25.27 | EdePopede | ah i'll look for one |
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| 07:26.32 | EdePopede | there's '-not $EXPR', even POSIX |
| 07:26.41 | rant | EdePopede: under operators, ! or -not |
| 07:27.31 | rant | I typically use find very seldomly and usually via a frontend :P |
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| 07:28.24 | EdePopede | i don't even use the shell for files most of the time, mc is a nice temporary version of good old nc ;) |
| 07:28.41 | at0m | rant: yea. more often, locate. and find directly if i want to execute some script on them |
| 07:28.43 | rant | nc is netcat :P |
| 07:28.49 | at0m | them/the results |
| 07:29.16 | EdePopede | norton commander, you think i knew about netcat in those days (or even the OS i had to use)! |
| 07:29.25 | rant | I usually only use it when I'm trying to easily pull files of a certain type out of a nested directory tree |
| 07:29.44 | rant | when I find myself in the unfortunate position of working with someone else's organizational scheme :P |
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| 07:29.59 | rant | I do it a lot with calibre cause it tends to like to organize things its own way |
| 07:30.54 | rant | EdePopede: ah.. I dont know about norton anything.. I've used some dos filemanagers in my day though I dont recall the names of them |
| 07:31.16 | EdePopede | i just try to see where i have subdirectories and then rename those directories, but have to exclude them for later runs. or hm, i could loop on them and then check if they have subdirectories. |
| 07:31.44 | *** join/#debian nemesis (~nemesis@117.221.48.59) |
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| 07:33.14 | EdePopede | rant: had the chance to grab a boxed copy, rather late, but better than never. it's a methusalem after all. had some clones too before and trying to remember the name of the one i'd been using most, but you guess it... couldn't even find it on one of these web collections so far. |
| 07:33.22 | nemesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:34.17 | rant | nemesis: you need to do a couple of things.. first, you can more safely do such commands on your status window if your client has one.. so you dont make mistakes like this in the future |
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| 07:34.38 | rant | nemesis: then you need to remove the space before the / and remove the <> around the password and email, and change the password to something OTHER than password |
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| 07:35.51 | rant | nemesis: then you will need to check your email for a confirmation code |
| 07:35.59 | at0m | yea, status window, or /msg nickserv help then in the nickserv window |
| 07:36.13 | at0m | not in channels at leasty |
| 07:36.15 | at0m | -y |
| 07:36.17 | EdePopede | or even /ns for short |
| 07:36.31 | at0m | EdePopede: assuming client has such alias |
| 07:36.35 | EdePopede | most(?) clients have the alias, and so do most(?) ircds |
| 07:36.36 | rant | yes, thats another way to do it.. directly to a nickserv query window.. if you use some more braindead client like pidgin, you can just put nickserv on the buddy list |
| 07:36.42 | *** join/#debian epsilonKNOT (~epsilon@pool-108-35-221-153.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) |
| 07:36.51 | rant | and then omit the /msg nickserv portion cause you're already talking to nickserv |
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| 07:37.17 | EdePopede | at0m: i which they would. anope type names are rather common and there's no risk to mistype the nick then |
| 07:37.29 | humpled | that's a client feature too though right? that a /msg which subsequently give you a query channel |
| 07:37.44 | EdePopede | both. hexchat has it, also freenode |
| 07:37.50 | rant | yes its also typically an alias but a far more universal one |
| 07:38.00 | rant | like /j |
| 07:38.06 | nemesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:38.16 | EdePopede | round 2 |
| 07:38.17 | rant | you're still putting a space before the / |
| 07:38.29 | antto | don't write important commands in channel or query windows |
| 07:38.30 | EdePopede | and you need a new password, nemesis |
| 07:38.32 | antto | use the status window |
| 07:38.51 | xormor | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:38.52 | rant | you need a pretty good concept of how to even choose a good password :P |
| 07:38.57 | xormor | let me try the other command... |
| 07:39.00 | humpled | nah hexchat doesn't give me a query tab from a /msg |
| 07:39.02 | at0m | EdePopede: but that's /the pass/ for everywhere! |
| 07:39.03 | EdePopede | /ns help <-- even better ;) |
| 07:39.24 | EdePopede | no! 1 2 3 4 , i even have it for my briefcase |
| 07:39.58 | xormor | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:40.18 | EdePopede | rant: does it include full moon and spider legs? ;) |
| 07:40.57 | humpled | it's kinda scary how often this happens |
| 07:41.21 | antto | what? spilling out yer passwords/emails accidentally? |
| 07:41.26 | EdePopede | btw, doubling the / at start of line allows for omiting the space. found this out by accident some day. if standard or not, seems to be a global workaround |
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| 07:41.45 | at0m | / / here |
| 07:41.47 | humpled | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:42.06 | antto | /itdependsontheircclient |
| 07:42.06 | Lyberta | makes me wonder why doesn't irc have some kind of GUI form language so people never need to type commands |
| 07:42.17 | humpled | go to the server tab like rant said in the first place and don't rely on aliases |
| 07:42.27 | at0m | Lyberta: cos GUI is meh |
| 07:42.39 | EdePopede | IRC-XML! |
| 07:42.41 | Lyberta | at0m, gui is the only way |
| 07:42.55 | antto | pls, no xml :~( |
| 07:42.58 | rant | dpkg, yinzersmite EdePopede |
| 07:42.58 | dpkg | EdePopede: yinz a jagoff |
| 07:43.06 | *** part/#debian yourbreathtaking (~nemesis@117.221.48.59) |
| 07:43.24 | EdePopede | looking fierce |
| 07:43.33 | antto | so, is debian ten out yet? |
| 07:43.42 | Lyberta | wait, IRC is text? we are doomed... |
| 07:43.53 | at0m | Lyberta: my irc client runs on a box in a datacenter. the machine i am on now is not linux, doesn't even have internet access. so i ssh a machine that does have internet access, from there to the irc box. how am i to do this with a GUI again? |
| 07:44.24 | Lyberta | at0m, you install Wayland on your box and VNC into it |
| 07:44.25 | *** join/#debian oish (~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 07:44.53 | tachikomas | Who need a gui in 2019 anyway ? |
| 07:44.54 | antto | then u get haxxed from teh VNC holes |
| 07:45.06 | at0m | lol VNC and deal with lag? |
| 07:45.17 | Lyberta | tachikomas, so, VR only? |
| 07:45.22 | tachikomas | i do. |
| 07:45.22 | antto | yeah, not to mention the lag and overkill |
| 07:45.39 | tachikomas | i3 / alacritty / lynx / mutt |
| 07:45.41 | at0m | "redraw all 1080p window cos someone said something" |
| 07:45.58 | at0m | oh, "redraw over network all 1080p window cos someone said something" |
| 07:46.00 | antto | coz a pixel changed |
| 07:46.03 | at0m | right |
| 07:46.06 | Lyberta | 1080p, hah, 8K HDR 240 fps, it's 2019 baby! |
| 07:46.18 | xormor | hey. the testing version of buster has Wayland in GNOME as default. |
| 07:46.19 | at0m | yea. for irc. |
| 07:46.43 | EdePopede | but only if your tractor is tall enough, Lyberta |
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| 07:46.46 | xormor | in stable stretch it was x11 for default, and one had to choose GNOME Wayland if one wanted to use it. |
| 07:46.46 | tachikomas | Gnome is as bad as Wayland tbh :D |
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| 07:47.19 | antto | when you loose a frame and you get 239fps - <epic_sadness_intensifies.jpg> |
| 07:47.26 | Lyberta | EdePopede, well, I'm 1440p@144Hz, even no HDR |
| 07:47.30 | xormor | if I want x11 GNOME, I must choose it from the display manager while logging in, in buster testing. |
| 07:47.50 | at0m | xfree86 ftw /me hides |
| 07:48.11 | xormor | tachikomas, I thought I would not get used to GNOME, but it is very simple to use. Almost like graphical mode windowing GUI for dummies. |
| 07:48.35 | xormor | tachikomas, I used MATE for a long time, it was very good. But I wanted something else. I think I had some problems with MATE. |
| 07:48.52 | at0m | that's when i learned console, in xfree86 days. cos it would crash on my couple times per day and i didnt want it to take my irc client and other apps with it =) |
| 07:49.03 | at0m | *on me |
| 07:49.18 | tachikomas | xormor: i have plasma somewhere, but i cant replace i3 |
| 07:49.31 | xormor | tachikomas, there were problems in the older modern GNOME that made me switch to MATE. KDE was not for me, it was bloatware and I actually cluttered out the desktop etc. I think KDE is for tinkerers, real hackers. |
| 07:49.34 | tachikomas | its just like fun 2 minutes to see that windows can float |
| 07:49.52 | xormor | tachikomas, what is i3? |
| 07:49.54 | tachikomas | xormor: i do prefer the feel of kde tbh |
| 07:49.57 | tachikomas | tilling wm |
| 07:50.19 | tachikomas | with that you dont need to use anymore your mouse as you can do everything from the keyboard |
| 07:50.37 | tachikomas | it auto adjust the size of the windows to avoid losing space |
| 07:50.40 | Lyberta | tachikomas, how do I click a button without mouse? |
| 07:50.48 | tachikomas | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:50.53 | Lyberta | GUi button |
| 07:50.56 | tachikomas | you still have it if you need it. |
| 07:51.00 | rant | to me "the feel of kde" was always something akin to bad gas pains without the ability to just fart or take some medicine |
| 07:51.04 | tachikomas | but its mainly made to be used in cli |
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| 07:51.30 | tachikomas | and for the web you have awesome browser such as qutebrowser and again, dont need mouse. |
| 07:51.35 | xormor | tachikomas, I never got used to the modern KDE versions. the older KDE versions were fine for my use. They were a bit like the NT/95/98/2000 and even XP Microsoft Windows menu and windowing systems. |
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| 07:52.43 | EdePopede | "auto adjust" that's such a point. if it resizes my browser window because i open an editor next to it, then meh. i really don't like to scroll horizontally for every single line. also applies to similar situations in other programs. |
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| 07:52.52 | xormor | KDE plasma is like a cyberpunk toy, that is a bit heavy for my machine and has lots of details visually. |
| 07:53.21 | tachikomas | EdePopede: Have you tried it ? |
| 07:53.55 | *** part/#debian yourbreathtaking (~nemesis@117.221.48.59) |
| 07:54.10 | EdePopede | tachikomas: yep. the fun effect was that skype's contact window finally was as small as i wanted (they really don't care about screenspace in redmond, do they?) |
| 07:54.11 | Lyberta | I've tried KDE in 2010, it had so much useless graphical effects that I couldn't bear it, then I tried Debian and it came with GNOME 2, GNOME 2 Just Worked |
| 07:54.53 | Lyberta | but GNOME 3 didn't so I migrated to MATE |
| 07:54.56 | EdePopede | the thing is, i use a tiling layout even with xfce, because overlapping forces more clicks |
| 07:55.02 | rant | EdePopede: they broke that barrier already.. |
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| 07:55.55 | tachikomas | tiling is for me mandatory as screenspace is important for me :D |
| 07:55.58 | EdePopede | gnome the same btw... pulseaudio needs half of my screenspace for just the beep and 2 stereo channels -.- |
| 07:56.33 | EdePopede | tachikomas: and also no window borders? is a bit problematic for me with 2 dark terminals side by side :D |
| 07:56.41 | tachikomas | no border aswell |
| 07:56.46 | tachikomas | i use a 1pixel configuration for that |
| 07:56.55 | tachikomas | 1366x768 is hard for work |
| 07:57.11 | xormor | tachikomas, I don't need screenspace. I just play around with my computer as a hobby, like a technical toy. |
| 07:57.13 | tachikomas | on a 12 inch |
| 07:57.30 | Lyberta | well and for me half of GUI programs have unreadable fonts because of high PPI |
| 07:57.42 | tachikomas | xormor: Well, at work i have 4 24 inch, its still a pleasure to use |
| 07:57.55 | tachikomas | it just make it more easy and effecicient at the end |
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| 07:58.04 | tachikomas | but that is my personnal opinion |
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| 07:58.49 | antto | my screen: https://i.imgur.com/SMI2jJl.png |
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| 07:59.26 | EdePopede | that's weird ratio. got myself 1440x900 iirc on the other one, but at least fullhd here. still most websites want more than half of the width, and pdf isn't as easy as i thought. if for nothing else, then it is their huge borders. text fits, but i still have to scroll the end of the page into view. |
| 07:59.33 | tachikomas | antto: yeah no. |
| 07:59.42 | tachikomas | EdePopede: Thanks lenovo for their thinkpad in odd ratio |
| 08:00.28 | EdePopede | it is an LG display in my case, but the machine is a lenovo with other issues, so i'll join the club |
| 08:00.46 | antto | at the job i got a tilted fullhd monitor, it's grate for codez and reading datasheetz |
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| 08:01.05 | xormor | I can even watch DVD's full screen from my computer monitor that also works as a television, a TV set. I have cable TV, 2 HDMI and a SCART if there is some antique hardware I need, like an external disc player, like a DVD player. I just sold it back to my friend. He had given it to me earlier, I think for free but I realized all I need is Debian, dvd-pkg and the internal DVD player. it is actually RW so I can burn DVD's and CD's with it. needless to |
| 08:01.05 | xormor | say it also accepts CD's, so I can use it as a CD player. data DVD's and CD's are mostly a thing of the past for me now, since I use a USB memory stick or a microSD memory chip. I can play antique DVD and CD games with Debian, the drive and DosBox, Wine or even game-data-packager when I need the game data for Quake 2. I use Yamagi Quake II, the Debian package. |
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| 08:02.04 | Lyberta | xormor, have you heard about Quake 2 RTX? |
| 08:02.06 | xormor | the TV couples as a computer monitor, it is a generic screen. Samsung. not bad. 27". mid-priced. has not broken down. |
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| 08:02.15 | EdePopede | tachikomas: not sure if that's the reason for your display, but years ago i've read something. seems they wanted to come up with new displays and used their old production road with 768 height, but then made them wider to have more screenspace. |
| 08:02.27 | xormor | Lyberta, I do not remember that. Can you tell me about it? |
| 08:02.45 | DracoSentien | Alright, I got Debian Buster 10 installed. It's great. I installed all the firmware, extra packages, set it for contrib and non-free now I just need to add the firefox plugins and then codecs |
| 08:02.59 | DracoSentien | works great with my laptop |
| 08:03.10 | Lyberta | xormor, https://store.steampowered.com/app/1089130/Quake_II_RTX/ |
| 08:03.12 | EdePopede | DracoSentien: grats. and good luck for the next step |
| 08:03.24 | tachikomas | EdePopede: might be. Not really a hardware guy at the end |
| 08:03.35 | tachikomas | EdePopede: as long as i can read my terminal :D |
| 08:03.41 | tachikomas | i dont need much more |
| 08:04.06 | DracoSentien | DracoSentien: yeah, the main thing was just using dmesg and apt to figure out and install what non-free driver packages I needed to install and prior to that was just editing the apt sources.list |
| 08:04.26 | xormor | Lyberta, I grabbed the demo from the NVidia site. Does it cost something from Steam? |
| 08:04.52 | xormor | Lyberta, is the Steam Q2 RTX a demo too, if I want to play it for free? Do I have to pay for the full version? |
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| 08:05.04 | EdePopede | oh, i'll have to look for good terminal fonts on buster. want some of these nifty things for screen and such and finally avoid having half of an empty line at the end at *all* font sizes available in xterm |
| 08:05.04 | Lyberta | xormor, do if you only want shareware levels |
| 08:06.06 | Lyberta | xormor, free version has only shareware levels |
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| 08:06.46 | Lyberta | EdePopede, wait?? not usual vector fonts? |
| 08:06.59 | xormor | Lyberta, ok... I do not want to pay for it, and I think Steam is not for me since lots of the games cost money. I *could* play demo and shareware and free versions of games, but the last time I used Steam to download games for free they were not very good. |
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| 08:07.56 | EdePopede | Lyberta: in theory yes, but that whole font thing... including formats, codepoints included, multibyte thingies, and even all that info from xfontsel. me poor head! |
| 08:08.22 | EdePopede | ah, and i forgot about emoji substitution and the like |
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| 08:09.37 | Lyberta | EdePopede, right, usually you'd want a separate emoji font to get most emojis |
| 08:10.10 | EdePopede | the thing is also to find 6 font sizes which fit into fullHD in a clean way. without any unused borders. even with 2 terminals side by side with an even number of columns each |
| 08:10.59 | Lyberta | EdePopede, eh? I usually just have like 160x50 window |
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| 08:11.12 | DracoSentien | I have to use curl or wget and then use some other tools to make a systemd book from the Debian site |
| 08:11.27 | EdePopede | Lyberta: was ontopic in #hexchat last night, gtk and stuff, and problems in windows with the approach. and about a top down approach on the whole thing, i lost it somewhere with all the font types available on linux |
| 08:11.33 | DracoSentien | pdf would be the easiest to make but I would prefer epub |
| 08:12.10 | DracoSentien | I am an oldschool unix nerd and don't know much about it |
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| 08:12.59 | EdePopede | Lyberta: 59x212 atm, and this really doesn't look sane. i'm sure there's one pixel missing with that font size :/ |
| 08:14.07 | Lyberta | EdePopede, for HexChat I use Dejavu Sans 12, for terminal I use Dejavu Monospace 12 |
| 08:14.30 | EdePopede | weird, 60x18=1080, should fit. sounds like a border pixel, hmm |
| 08:14.45 | DracoSentien | hexchat, blah, I use tmux with irssi true oldschool unix nerd style |
| 08:15.07 | EdePopede | including 7bit terminal? ;) |
| 08:15.33 | DracoSentien | soon oldschool unix nerd greybeards will be hunted down to extinction |
| 08:15.59 | Lyberta | ..and linux will be usable by normal people? |
| 08:16.26 | xormor | DracoSentien, I was first an MS-DOS nerd, then I got onto a collection of ISP servers called "Cute Communications" of Helsinki, Finland and I actually started liking the UNIX type shells since they were like MS-DOS but with more tools, power and good programs. They had AT&T Bell Unix, BSD and Linux on different servers, with names like cute.cute.fi, ugly.cute.fi and dirty.cute.fi. "dirty" was the Linux server, "cute" was the AT&T server and "ugly" |
| 08:16.26 | xormor | was the BSD server IIRC. I can say I am a text-interface nerd, and it does not matter so much what the internals of the system are. nowadays I mix text and graphics, that have menus and icons and windowing. |
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| 08:17.18 | Lyberta | xormor, how do you handle CJK in text mode? it requires double widths glyphs |
| 08:17.23 | EdePopede | Lyberta: depends on your definition of normal. once i've set up a debian box for a guy who needed help to find the browser bookmarks he dragged into the submenu. a sane preset and most people would be happy nowadays. |
| 08:17.27 | DracoSentien | xormor: I was kind of just joking around anyway |
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| 08:17.48 | xormor | of course I used MS-Windows in the 1990's but I actually moved away from it to the Linux GUI in the 2000's, since the GNU/Linux GUI was even better than the M$-Window$ GUI. different desktops, like KDE, GNOME etc. |
| 08:18.03 | xormor | Lyberta, what is CJK? |
| 08:18.17 | Lyberta | xormor, chinese japanese korean |
| 08:18.35 | xormor | Lyberta, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CJK_characters |
| 08:18.50 | xormor | Lyberta, I do not use them. I am not East Asian. I am North European. |
| 08:18.58 | DracoSentien | xormor: I installed Debian Slink in 1998 no kde/gnome but WindowMaker was the windowmananger and I had to custom compile a kernel just to get sound to work to play my mp3s |
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| 08:19.55 | DracoSentien | I think it was 98 or 99 I don't remember |
| 08:20.28 | DracoSentien | I installed Redhat hurricane or manhattan in 1997 not sure which one it was a long time ago |
| 08:20.32 | Lyberta | xormor, sure, but other ppl do, hence no proper Unicode rendering - not a proper terminal |
| 08:21.48 | xormor | Lyberta, maybe there should be a project to accomplish it. |
| 08:21.59 | xormor | Lyberta, a dev-team |
| 08:22.20 | xormor | Lyberta, there should be the planning, the models and the implementation. |
| 08:22.40 | EdePopede | i tried to upload a screenshot, but imgur seems to have a minimum size? i'd prefer curl anyway, but what's the name of such a imagebin? |
| 08:23.22 | Lyberta | xormor, well so far I didn't manage to break mate-terminal, but I stopped at diacritic torture |
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| 08:25.13 | EdePopede | Lyberta > https://pasteboard.co/ImH78u7.png |
| 08:26.24 | Lyberta | EdePopede, oh, so 2 columns per glyph |
| 08:26.27 | Lyberta | good |
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| 08:26.53 | EdePopede | but please don't ask me about the magic behind it, may be a recent xterm |
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| 08:27.36 | Lyberta | EdePopede, to me xterm is useless because it uses pixel font of incredibly small size and I don't see a menu to change it |
| 08:28.12 | at0m | /o\ menu |
| 08:28.23 | EdePopede | Lyberta: ctrl + 1 of the buttons |
| 08:28.43 | EdePopede | 3 beautiful menus with everything you may need |
| 08:29.23 | EdePopede | and the debian preset is indeed for ancient resolutions or display walls |
| 08:29.30 | Lyberta | oh, I've just checked in application menu and I don't have xterm installed |
| 08:30.16 | EdePopede | 82x319 on 22" fullhd that's really a bit small in both senses |
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| 08:30.58 | Lyberta | EdePopede, any GUI program should read the PPI of the monitor(s) to scale everything correctly at least |
| 08:31.37 | tachikomas | Lyberta: Why ? |
| 08:31.42 | EdePopede | 13px tall, VGA 03h has 16px with 14px used. but then on 14" monitors with 4:3 aspect. |
| 08:31.51 | Lyberta | tachikomas, so it is possible to read fonts |
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| 08:32.20 | Lyberta | and not fonts |
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| 08:32.57 | EdePopede | i checked the other one just yesterday. 256mm, so slightly over 10â, 900px. 90dpi, but xfce has 96. |
| 08:33.11 | tachikomas | Lyberta: If this bug exist for you, why not trying to correct it ? |
| 08:33.38 | Lyberta | tachikomas, I can't fix 50% of GUI programs out there |
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| 08:33.56 | tachikomas | Lyberta: one is already something :D |
| 08:34.21 | EdePopede | select proper fonts for the widgets, text, buttons, menus, whatever. |
| 08:34.47 | Lyberta | tachikomas, well, I guess I would need to know what kind of UI framework it uses, so far GTK+ is sane mostly, other - less |
| 08:34.54 | EdePopede | and then font sizes also depend on your distance from the monitor |
| 08:35.09 | tachikomas | Try working with QT |
| 08:35.16 | Lyberta | EdePopede, the widgets itself also need to be scaled |
| 08:35.24 | tachikomas | almos never had problems with QT and high density pixel |
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| 08:36.06 | Lyberta | tachikomas, well the only Qt program I use regularly is QTox and it has mostly unreadable fonts |
| 08:36.10 | EdePopede | if i watch a video the distance to this one suddenly doubles. can't even read the chat anymore. |
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| 08:37.45 | EdePopede | and then there's a tendency on the web to have sane line heights but horrible font sizes. 20:12, why? even 20:14 can keep it readable, but no, we want grey on white with minifonts. |
| 08:38.20 | Lyberta | EdePopede, at least you can set minimum fonts size and scaling factor |
| 08:38.27 | Lyberta | EdePopede, in browser |
| 08:39.00 | EdePopede | nothing but a hack, ratios between fonts should be kept |
| 08:39.26 | EdePopede | may really break the layout on complex pages |
| 08:39.40 | Lyberta | EdePopede, meeh, who cares? if they specified their fonts in pt or px they deserve their sites looking ugly af |
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| 08:40.13 | Lyberta | seriously, pt and px should be banned from css |
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| 08:40.50 | EdePopede | doesn't bother them, but i'd have to look for things. just take the old firefox download page. no link to "all downloads" visible, only with JS because broken layout. and then a tiny hardly readable font. |
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| 08:41.18 | EdePopede | images in pixel formats are based on pixels, so... |
| 08:41.31 | Lyberta | EdePopede, scale them? |
| 08:41.44 | EdePopede | i prefer native resolutions here, no need to heat up my cpu |
| 08:42.04 | Lyberta | EdePopede, I think your eyes are more expensive than your cpu |
| 08:42.31 | EdePopede | or - thanks wordpress - use 12MP pix in a 600px wide text column |
| 08:42.59 | Lyberta | also layout in pixels should be banned |
| 08:43.23 | EdePopede | still not related. people who claim to be web designers should simply learn their bits. |
| 08:44.04 | at0m | EdePopede: but looks good on my ipad ;p |
| 08:44.08 | EdePopede | i don't even want serifes, with small font sizes it looks ridiculous |
| 08:44.48 | EdePopede | at0m: heh exactly. got another one from a bug report: "but it runs on my machine with no problems and it also has only 32GB RAM" |
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| 08:45.41 | at0m | current machine here has.. 1.5GB =) |
| 08:45.54 | EdePopede | uh.. that's even less than mine :o |
| 08:46.16 | at0m | ok RAM is unrelated to gfx. got more video memory than RAM lol |
| 08:46.33 | Lyberta | well I have 16 GiB and it almost fully consumed during building clang so my next build will have 32 at minimum |
| 08:46.47 | at0m | most i got in a machine is probably 4GB |
| 08:46.48 | EdePopede | i should set up a vm with xp in it running some gnu layer with se in it running dos. |
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| 08:47.49 | at0m | i'm actually on XP here. cos some hw requires it. |
| 08:47.51 | EdePopede | anyone remembers VGA? 640x480. and dialogs still were fitting on the display. |
| 08:48.09 | Lyberta | EdePopede, very different monitors back then |
| 08:48.33 | EdePopede | Lyberta: resolution increased dramatically, but not physical height |
| 08:48.33 | Lyberta | EdePopede, but I used my CRT until 2017 |
| 08:48.46 | at0m | fishtanks =) |
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| 08:49.02 | Lyberta | EdePopede, dunno, I went from 16" to 27" :P |
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| 08:50.07 | EdePopede | best one i ever had was a lent 19â Eizo with those RGB-connectors because my LCD died. not even 10 years ago. its price in 1999 used to be 3000DM. that was quite a bit xD |
| 08:50.54 | EdePopede | a monster of 30kg. |
| 08:51.19 | at0m | EdePopede: ehehe! had 2 sony 20" calibarated CRT here, weighs a ton indeed |
| 08:51.20 | Lyberta | well, I kinda like that VGA connector died, I remember I used to clean my PC every month and unplugging VGA was a nightmare |
| 08:51.41 | at0m | EdePopede: yea with them 5 screw-on RBG snake |
| 08:51.46 | at0m | RGB* |
| 08:51.50 | EdePopede | only good they didn't also switch to USB |
| 08:52.06 | at0m | </3 usb |
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| 08:52.29 | at0m | we should probably move this to #d-o |
| 08:52.50 | tete_ | can someone tell me what i could do when i hit "page up" and i do not get the last command(s) but ~ ? |
| 08:53.12 | at0m | tete_: where would you do that PgUp? |
| 08:53.28 | tete_ | in the bash of one of my vps on debian 9 |
| 08:53.28 | EdePopede | reminds me i should continue here, gotta bring that @!"$â
¤§%@ SATA/USB HDD box back. slower than my old cheap one with the 1TB, can't handle the 4TB one, though it claims to work up to 10TB. |
| 08:53.30 | at0m | in most terminals it would be arrow up |
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| 08:54.04 | tete_ | at0m, when i write "echo blah" and then i write "echo <pgUp>" shouldnt it automaticaly write the ending "blah" ? |
| 08:54.23 | tete_ | at work our admin configured their system in that way, maybe i thought thats default which is not |
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| 09:07.17 | deego | Just catching up on the topic. still lost. I never dist-upgraded for 9.9, just apt upgrade. What did I miss by not doing that? |
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| 09:10.50 | at0m | deego: apt upgrade does for example not remove packages. say you have mariadb-server-someversion, you'd still be on that. while dist-upgrade or full-upgrade would remove mariadb-server-someversion and install mariadb-server-newerversion |
| 09:11.02 | at0m | deego: and stuff that depends on the newerversion, ofc |
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| 09:14.27 | deego | at0m: yeah, i know that part, thanks: still wondering about 9.9 needing full-upgrade. I never did that.. And, atm, if I try apt dist-upgrade, it says nothing needs upgrading. What did i miss? |
| 09:14.51 | deego | and how do I correct for whatever i missed? |
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| 09:16.28 | at0m | couldn't tell from here. is there any issue you're trying to solve? or maybe you were just lucky, and maybe dist-upgrade causes only (serious?) issues for some select cases |
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| 09:16.38 | at0m | idk |
| 09:17.15 | deego | thx. no issue. just trying to understand the /topic |
| 09:17.34 | at0m | if all went well, i guess you're good =) |
| 09:17.40 | at0m | hindsight is easier tho |
| 09:17.56 | deego | :) |
| 09:18.14 | at0m | !9.9 |
| 09:18.14 | dpkg | Debian 9.9 was released on Apr 27, 2019. This point release corrects some serious bugs and copies security updates across to the main archive. Given the <kernel ABI> has changed, apt-get will require a dist-upgrade to upgrade. Further details are at https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20190427 and http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/ChangeLog . To upgrade, ask me about <point release>. |
| 09:18.35 | at0m | deego: there you got the reason: kernel ABI change |
| 09:19.15 | at0m | !kernel ABI |
| 09:19.15 | dpkg | Debian kernel packages have an <ABI> to indicate when out-of-tree modules must be rebuilt; upgrading from a package with 3.2.0-3-amd64 to another 3.2.0-3-amd64 doesn't require fglrx/nvidia/etc to be rebuilt, but upgrading from 3.2.0-3-amd64 to 3.2.0-4-amd64 does. Development kernels intended for <experimental> have the ABI <trunk> to indicate the ABI is unmanaged. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelABIChanges |
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| 09:20.00 | at0m | !ABI |
| 09:20.00 | dpkg | methinks abi is application binary interface (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_binary_interface). See also <kernel abi>. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/02/msg00648.html |
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| 09:21.05 | deego | at0m: yes, i saw that. So, what do i need to do now? i do use nvidia-driver |
| 09:21.36 | at0m | deego: i'll leave that to someone else, i have no idea |
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| 09:22.21 | at0m | deego: since you're not experiencing any issues (or new ones since the update) that need solving, i wouldn't bother too much |
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| 09:22.48 | rant | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 09:22.49 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u5; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u7; stretch-backports: 4.19+105~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105; sid: 4.19+105 |
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| 09:32.45 | kreyren | I'm getting https://i.imgur.com/ojWoU8s.png => How do i get mono 5.20 on debian buster? |
| 09:33.19 | kreyren | also https://i.imgur.com/NaOxC3C.png |
| 09:33.49 | rant | ,v mono-complete |
| 09:33.50 | judd | Package: mono-complete on amd64 -- jessie: 3.2.8+dfsg-10; jessie-security: 3.2.8+dfsg-10+deb8u1; stretch: 4.6.2.7+dfsg-1; buster: 5.18.0.240+dfsg-3; sid: 5.18.0.240+dfsg-3 |
| 09:34.23 | jelly | kreyren, not from Debian that's for sure |
| 09:35.11 | kreyren | jelly, meaning? |
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| 09:35.43 | rant | meaning buster is frozen, sid is slushy, both have 5.18 |
| 09:35.54 | rant | in recent history mono has never been backported.. |
| 09:35.59 | jelly | kreyren, meaning from somewhere else if you really need it |
| 09:36.00 | rant | so you're SOL as they say |
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| 09:36.20 | jelly | kreyren, like upstream, once they start building for buster: https://www.mono-project.com/download/stable/#download-lin-debian |
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| 09:36.42 | jelly | builds for stretch might or might not work on your installation. |
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| 09:37.12 | kreyren | jelly, there is mono-complete on buster? |
| 09:37.33 | kreyren | or is that just a port from stable? |
| 09:37.41 | jelly | kreyren, judd bot above said which version it was. |
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| 09:38.11 | kreyren | ah i see |
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| 09:38.29 | jelly | buster is slated to _become_ stable today or tomorrow, kreyren |
| 09:38.35 | Nem3sis | nick N3m3sis |
| 09:38.53 | kreyren | jelly, noted |
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| 09:47.38 | aadam | how do I check if I have usb 3.0 port |
| 09:47.56 | Sveta | the socket is partially blue |
| 09:48.22 | rant | aadam: it should be marked.. either colored blue or with SS next to it.. you can also check lsusb for presence of a usb 3 hub, and lsmod for the xhci module |
| 09:48.39 | Sveta | https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/usb-2.0-vs-usb-3.0-blue-port.jpg |
| 09:49.00 | rant | in addition to that, the port will have more than the standard 4 pins visible |
| 09:49.11 | Wulf | I've got an USB-C port. Is that USB 3 too? |
| 09:49.21 | rant | Sveta: the color is not a strong indicator.. most laptops do not color them |
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| 09:50.27 | aadam | only have yellow |
| 09:50.31 | aadam | and black |
| 09:51.09 | aadam | I have 3 usb ports |
| 09:51.58 | aadam | lsusb shows only two |
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| 09:52.01 | aadam | 2.0 |
| 09:52.05 | aadam | where third |
| 09:52.24 | rant | aadam: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-38301f83ff75c2747b6b6fb4e4bf50b6 |
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| 09:52.40 | rant | a 3.0 port has extra pins visible alighed between the normal 4 |
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| 09:54.51 | rant | aadam: typically the red/yellow ports are just higher power output |
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| 09:55.44 | rant | they could be 2.0 or 3.0 |
| 09:55.48 | humbot | or power available even when the machine is not powered up |
| 09:56.06 | rant | yes.. usually this stuff should me marked regardless |
| 09:56.31 | rant | on my T440 both show the USB symbol with SS and one shows a battery as well, meaning that port can be used when the machine is powered off |
| 09:56.44 | rant | both are black |
| 09:56.57 | aadam | yellow one doesnt have extra pins like that just extra 4 holes maybe for something different thing to plug in |
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| 09:57.43 | aadam | there is another port with two + signs and D symbol |
| 09:57.43 | rant | usb 3.0/3.1 would have the 5 extra contacts in front of the traditional 4 |
| 09:57.45 | aadam | what is it for |
| 09:58.10 | rant | aadam: displayport, for audio/video |
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| 09:58.46 | rant | I have a miniature displayport on mine as well.. which the miniDP is actually same connector I believe as a thunderbolt port |
| 09:58.56 | rant | which is why its important to label these damn things. :P |
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| 09:59.17 | rant | I have an adapter that converts that to an HDMI port since I dont have anything that uses DP |
| 09:59.17 | aadam | so I got 2 ports for display |
| 09:59.32 | aadam | one has old pins style |
| 09:59.38 | busch | Any news at which time debian buster gets released? |
| 09:59.56 | rant | I'm able to use my laptop display and two external displays via VGA and DP/HDMI on this T440 |
| 10:00.24 | Wulf | busch: between 11 and 12? But not sure about the time zone. |
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| 10:00.44 | rant | busch: when its ready, same time as always.. it'll be reflected on the debian website and the topic of this channel when it happens |
| 10:00.45 | aadam | if I connect hard disk using usb 3.0 adaptor can it run safely on usb 2.0 port |
| 10:01.06 | rant | aadam: yes, it just will run at a reduced speed. |
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| 10:02.14 | aadam | I have this thinkpad x220 i5 second generation tablet |
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| 10:03.36 | aadam | sometimes when I am using this tablet, my mouse plugged in to usb port stops working |
| 10:03.41 | rant | aadam: does the hdd use a small plug that looks like this? https://previews.123rf.com/images/shawnhempel/shawnhempel1109/shawnhempel110900041/10661717-mini-usb-3-0-plug-and-socket-on-external-device-isolated-on-white-background.jpg |
| 10:04.04 | aadam | I then unplug it from that usb port and plug it on the other side usb port only then it works |
| 10:05.11 | aadam | oh no |
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| 10:05.17 | aadam | my ports are not like that |
| 10:06.05 | rant | so its like this then? https://www.datapro.net/images/usb_3_b.jpg |
| 10:07.08 | BCMM_ | wow, i've never seen one of those before |
| 10:07.31 | Sveta | they are often used for printers |
| 10:07.39 | aadam | no |
| 10:07.42 | aadam | I have just ordered it |
| 10:07.43 | Sveta | thank you rant |
| 10:07.44 | aadam | not seen yet |
| 10:07.54 | rant | when you have the micro usb3 like I showed before, there are two seperate plugs side by side.. and the larger of the two is the USB2 portion, and it can be used with a standard phone cable in usb2 mode.. but the smaller one is the extra usb3 pins |
| 10:07.54 | BCMM | Sveta: i've seen regular type-b on printers. i guess i just haven't seen a usb-3 printer before |
| 10:08.02 | rant | and no, those arent used on printer |
| 10:08.14 | rant | those are used on say HDD docks or larger HDD inclosures |
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| 10:08.22 | aadam | I checked yellow means powered usb port |
| 10:08.27 | aadam | what is powered now |
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| 10:08.35 | aadam | it's not 3.0 |
| 10:09.00 | rant | yes, yellow/red are typically used to indicate always-on or higher wattage ports |
| 10:09.24 | rant | USB2 is 0.5A and USB3 is 0.9A, when its higher output its more like 1.8A |
| 10:09.42 | rant | when its always on, it can be used to charge a device even when the machine is turned off |
| 10:10.08 | rant | this is sometimes a feature that can be toggled in the bios/uefi settings |
| 10:10.54 | aadam | my all usb ports are on then |
| 10:10.57 | aadam | it means |
| 10:11.14 | aadam | because when I have tablet on sleep mode all usb ports can charge phone |
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| 10:11.29 | aadam | Three USB 2.0 (1 Always On port) |
| 10:11.47 | aadam | I have 2.0 USB ports |
| 10:12.32 | rant | sleep is not powered off |
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| 10:12.55 | rant | sleep is a CPU state where most things are powered down but ram/cpu are technically still on |
| 10:13.27 | rant | but then again those are like most terms being abused with multiple meanings these days |
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| 10:13.57 | rant | it just to just be sleep and hibernate.. one was a lower-power state the other was a full power off |
| 10:14.15 | rant | now they are mucking it up with terms like suspend and suspend to disk or such |
| 10:14.19 | BCMM | sleep is "suspend to RAM", in a desktop Linux context. android means something weird and special by it, though. |
| 10:14.35 | rant | making it sound like there are more than two different things |
| 10:15.16 | BCMM | linux people have been using "suspend to ram" and "suspend to disk" instead of "sleep" and "hibernate" for ages |
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| 10:15.36 | BCMM | it makes sense, because a lot of the steps of putting the machine in that state and recovering afterwards are the same |
| 10:15.55 | rant | and it gets further complicated with the fact that things arent like they used to be.. with the cpu, northbridge, southbridge.. now the cpu has the graphics, usb, etc all on die in most cases like the intel core architecture |
| 10:16.06 | BCMM | like making the gpu come back in a consistent state after being powered off |
| 10:16.21 | rant | so to say that the CPU is turned off when its housing the USB controller that is leaving a port powered on... |
| 10:16.25 | rant | heh |
| 10:16.29 | rant | it gets a bit confusing |
| 10:16.41 | darkling | I wish my desktop's GPU came back in a consistent state... :) |
| 10:17.14 | darkling | About one time in ten, I just get a black screen and a completely locked up machine that needs a hard power cycle. |
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| 10:22.23 | becks` | hi, when using grep with -E and a regular expression, how can I tell grep to print each match on a newline? |
| 10:25.04 | becks` | never mind, figured it out =) |
| 10:27.06 | Posterdati | hi |
| 10:27.23 | Posterdati | when 10 will come out? |
| 10:28.33 | blackflow | Jul 6th. |
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| 10:30.50 | Battaglin | ..on its way :-) |
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| 10:32.34 | BCMM | blackflow: it is july 6, fyi. |
| 10:32.38 | blackflow | Yes. |
| 10:32.51 | BCMM | Posterdati: installer images probably in a couple of hours |
| 10:33.22 | BCMM | i don't know when exactly repos update, but i guess that varies a little bit depending on your mirror |
| 10:33.39 | Posterdati | I changed sources.list and started the upgrade and then dist-upgrade, it is safe? |
| 10:33.55 | Posterdati | is it safe? |
| 10:34.25 | Posterdati | I used buster as distro name in sources.list |
| 10:34.32 | BCMM | Posterdati: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html will tell you if there's any extra steps to think about |
| 10:34.46 | Posterdati | BCMM: thanks |
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| 10:36.06 | DracoSentien | so, Debian tends to install firmware in clusters leaving extraneous firmware, from the same brand, lying about. Can I just 'rm' them without causing any database package management problems ? That is what I would do on OpenBSD and Slackware |
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| 10:37.17 | DracoSentien | who says Debian is hard to use and install ? I have Debian Buster all setup and it is simple as hell |
| 10:39.14 | DracoSentien | I was talking about non-free firmware |
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| 10:42.37 | DracoSentien | I'm used to slackware and openbsd. Compared to slackware and openbsd -- debian is a piece of cake to use |
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| 10:45.17 | Posterdati | I had no issue with openbsd too |
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| 11:14.19 | who-am-i | whois |
| 11:14.35 | Battaglin | tsk |
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| 11:18.08 | wil-syd | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:28.17 | Battaglin | :-) |
| 11:30.12 | yokowka | heavenO everysoul! what is the name of rus' windows chat? |
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| 11:41.37 | dvs | So nothing special happening today? :-> |
| 11:41.55 | joze | absolutely |
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| 11:48.22 | Battaglin | haha read up! |
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| 12:06.41 | Battaglin | apache 2.4.39 default on buster or ? |
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| 12:13.30 | velix | Is it B-Day? |
| 12:16.25 | dvs | Battaglin, it won't matter after today! |
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| 12:18.55 | Posterdati | if one upgrade from stretch will iptables be changed to the new firewall system? |
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| 12:20.33 | BCMM | Posterdati: do you mean nftables? |
| 12:20.42 | Posterdati | yes |
| 12:21.12 | Posterdati | will be the iptables rules converted? |
| 12:22.05 | BCMM | Posterdati: iptables is a frontend to nftables now. but it still works just the same as before. |
| 12:22.08 | monkwitdafunk | when did nftables come out? i think i saw nftables mentioned in a magazine |
| 12:22.14 | BCMM | Posterdati: you shouldn't need to adjust any rules |
| 12:22.22 | BCMM | monkwitdafunk: 2014 |
| 12:22.40 | Posterdati | BCMM: good! Thanks |
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| 12:23.06 | monkwitdafunk | is there still a link to get DVD1-DVD3? |
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| 12:23.53 | BCMM | Posterdati: you can migrate your rules to nftables syntax if you want, but i don't think you'll *have to* for a very long time |
| 12:24.13 | BCMM | https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Moving_from_iptables_to_nftables seems to say you can translate them automatically |
| 12:25.01 | Posterdati | ah nice! |
| 12:25.08 | Posterdati | Thanks again! |
| 12:25.31 | BCMM | monkwitdafunk: do you mean these? https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ |
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| 12:26.43 | Battaglin | https://cdimage.debian.org/images/.buster_release/debian-cd/amd64/bt-cd/ |
| 12:26.46 | Battaglin | no peers yet :D |
| 12:28.17 | monkwitdafunk | hey. if i have a domain address and static ip, i can torrent faster eh? |
| 12:28.18 | BCMM | Battaglin: heh, hidden directory. how does one find out about that? |
| 12:29.32 | Battaglin | BCMM: they just posted link on their FB team page |
| 12:29.36 | Battaglin | follow that! |
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| 12:58.29 | n0a110w | thanks for sharing :) |
| 13:00.11 | BCMM | Battaglin: i don't know what "FB team page" means |
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| 13:17.23 | velix | From Buster release docs: This doesn't make sense to me "All these have also gained -nft and -legacy variants. The -nft option is for users who can't or don't want to migrate to the native nftables command line interface." |
| 13:17.46 | velix | Shouldn't it be "The -legacy option is for users ..." ? |
| 13:18.09 | velix | Since when you use -nft, you ARE using nftables. |
| 13:18.24 | rozie | hi, I have trouble with lxc after upgrade to Buster |
| 13:18.30 | velix | legacy = x_tables |
| 13:18.39 | rozie | cannot make containters run |
| 13:19.01 | krogan | I can't wait for Buster to be released is it today ? |
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| 13:21.11 | velix | Battaglin: it's 2.4.38 |
| 13:23.43 | rozie | setup and log https://zakr.es/buster_lxc.txt |
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| 13:29.17 | Posterdati | funny I did update to booster an HP DL380G3 and it is dead (remote machine) |
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| 13:29.53 | velix | Posterdati: What booster did you installer? |
| 13:29.59 | velix | Posterdati: Try Debian Buster |
| 13:30.07 | Posterdati | sorry Buster |
| 13:30.18 | Posterdati | I upgrade to buster |
| 13:30.21 | velix | Posterdati: Remember, CUPS and firewall has changed. |
| 13:30.22 | Posterdati | reboot |
| 13:30.34 | Posterdati | and the machine does not accept ssh |
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| 13:30.44 | velix | Might be your firewall rules then? |
| 13:30.55 | Posterdati | mmmh |
| 13:31.00 | Posterdati | I did not change them |
| 13:31.36 | velix | Posterdati: but Buster did. See the release notes: "Starting with iptables v1.8.2 the binary package includes iptables-nft and iptables-legacy, two variants of the iptables command line interface. The nftables-based variant, using the nf_tables Linux kernel subsystem, is the default in buster. " |
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| 13:32.22 | Posterdati | I know, but someone told me that I had no need to change the rules |
| 13:32.35 | velix | Can you log in locally? |
| 13:32.44 | Posterdati | no |
| 13:32.53 | velix | recovery console? |
| 13:32.54 | Posterdati | I'm at 20km from it |
| 13:33.23 | rozie | does it repond to ping (ICMP)? |
| 13:33.31 | LtL | Posterdati: run ssh -v hostname that should tell you something |
| 13:34.17 | velix | Doesn't those HP machine come with remote hands out of the box? |
| 13:34.31 | rozie | you need to have it configured ;) |
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| 13:36.31 | Posterdati | seems unreachable |
| 13:37.06 | *** part/#debian nachtgeist (~nachtgeis@mgmt.v6.srv06.itamservices.de) |
| 13:37.07 | Posterdati | anyway it is an abandoned server... So, who cares? |
| 13:37.36 | Posterdati | still I can reach it with dolphin :) |
| 13:38.05 | Posterdati | na |
| 13:38.09 | Posterdati | not working any more |
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| 13:45.48 | Posterdati | could it be a client issue? |
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| 13:46.05 | Posterdati | since I'm connecting from an upgrading machine |
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| 13:48.44 | Battaglin | ohh theres an edu release too ? |
| 13:48.47 | Battaglin | whats that |
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| 13:49.28 | Battaglin | nice |
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| 13:58.53 | rozie | it seems to be a problem with Buster with the lxc container |
| 13:59.14 | rozie | created container with Stretch and it runs just fine |
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| 14:02.27 | Lyberta | rozie, unprivileged? |
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| 14:03.33 | rozie | priviledged |
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| 14:04.25 | rozie | https://zakr.es/buster_lxc.txt |
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| 14:24.55 | xormor | when is buster stable? |
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| 14:25.53 | LtL | xormor: now |
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| 14:26.26 | xormor | LtL, how come I did not get new upgrades when I did sudo apt update and sudo apt upgrade? |
| 14:26.36 | han-solo | !buster |
| 14:26.36 | dpkg | The release following Debian 9 "Stretch" is codenamed "Buster" (Andy's pet Dachshund in Toy Story) and will be Debian 10. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00005.html, This release is well into its freeze and you can help test it out! Ask me about <install buster> <stretch->buster>. |
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| 14:27.31 | BCMM | xormor: does your sources.list say "stable" or "stretch"? |
| 14:27.41 | xormor | BCMM, it says "buster". |
| 14:27.42 | LtL | xormor: you need to prepare, then edit your /etc/apt/sources.list, then apt update, apt upgrade, apt full-upgrade |
| 14:27.57 | BCMM | xormor: oh right, so you've been on buster for a while already now? |
| 14:28.02 | xormor | BCMM, yes. |
| 14:28.15 | BCMM | xormor: what things were you expecting to change on release day? |
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| 14:28.46 | Wulf | hmmm.. big fireworks? |
| 14:28.47 | xormor | BCMM, I expected bug fixes to packages. |
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| 14:29.02 | BCMM | xormor: were you not getting those already? |
| 14:29.20 | xormor | BCMM, but I have also proposed-updates. yes, I got some a few days ago, about a week ago. |
| 14:29.33 | xormor | BCMM, probably I have already the newest bug fixes and versions. |
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| 15:00.00 | nifker | When I try to convert my ELF file to .bin using arm-none-eabi-objcopy it results in an 0Bytes file :/ |
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| 16:12.54 | BCMM | nifker: is there definitely ARM object code in that ELF? |
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| 16:18.04 | palli | ciao tutti |
| 16:18.25 | annadane | !it |
| 16:18.25 | dpkg | Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help. |
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| 16:22.06 | jimster | I just realized I've been using debian on and off for 20 years. installed slink when I was about 16 years old on my parents pc :) |
| 16:23.23 | x0n | that moment when you realize that you're old |
| 16:23.30 | jimster | haha yep |
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| 16:24.53 | darkling | I'm in that same position, but about 10 years older. :) |
| 16:26.34 | Ericounet | and me, I installed the first release in 1993 if I'm not wrong ... Infomagic CDs |
| 16:27.02 | Ericounet | the kernel was not 1.0 ... maybe 0.96 .... |
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| 16:28.17 | darkling | I don't go that far back with Linux -- I started on Red Hat 4.2 (1995?), but switched to Debian when I got fed up with reinstalling to do an upgrade of RH. |
| 16:28.28 | Ericounet | Debian 0.01 was released on September 15, 1993, |
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| 16:29.20 | prasket | redhat 5.2 (98 ish) was my first linux distro but been on Debian for past 9 years. |
| 16:29.31 | Ericounet | and before, SLS (on floppies ... ~48 floppies), Yggdrazil on cdrom, ans slackware |
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| 16:30.14 | darkling | I remember a friend at Uni installing a full SLS, including X. |
| 16:30.15 | Ericounet | I tried other distribs "to see", but never leaved Debian |
| 16:30.24 | jimster | they used to sell red hat 5.2 at walmart haha |
| 16:30.37 | darkling | I got most of my Red Hat CDs off magazine covers. :) |
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| 16:31.05 | jimster | late 90s was a really fun time for computing. I miss it sometimes |
| 16:31.17 | darkling | So were the late 80s. :) |
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| 16:31.53 | Ericounet | CP/M on Z80, 64ko RAM ... 2 floppies |
| 16:32.00 | jimster | all I did on a computer that far back was play leisure suit larry on my dad's 286 |
| 16:32.19 | EdePopede | ericnoan: Infomagic, were these not the ftp rips? boxes of 6 or so with X, gimp, sunset, what not. |
| 16:32.38 | binaryhermit | my first install was... debian woody? |
| 16:32.48 | prasket | mine came from a RedHat book at Barnes & Noble with the cd's in the back :D |
| 16:32.49 | Ericounet | and a lot of software you had to compile ... |
| 16:32.49 | darkling | Hacking on an ARM2 with Acorn's RiscOS was fun. I go all the way back to the ZX80, though. |
| 16:32.53 | binaryhermit | first one that actually worked was Mandrake, I think |
| 16:33.04 | binaryhermit | this would have been early 2005 |
| 16:33.08 | Ericounet | they had Debian, redhat, slackware on the dual CD boxes |
| 16:33.39 | Ericounet | maybe 4 Cds .. I don't remember ... |
| 16:33.46 | binaryhermit | debian had some nasty issues with my hw, trying to use the intel driver on my nvidia addon card causing x to barf, I figured this out after moving on |
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| 16:36.28 | fraktor | I'm running debian testing, and I see that the stable release of buster will be sometime today. When will bullseye become the testing distribution? |
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| 16:37.08 | annadane | when buster releases. and if you have 'testing' in your sources.list instead of 'buster', you'll immediately start using bullseye |
| 16:37.56 | fraktor | Okay. So sometime later today? |
| 16:38.04 | fraktor | I do have 'testing' in my sources.list files. |
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| 16:38.14 | annadane | yes, probably |
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| 16:42.49 | Alessandro-B | in my /var/lib/dpkg/status file |
| 16:43.00 | Alessandro-B | at the package konquest |
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| 16:44.14 | Alessandro-B | kde-l10n-ko version is something like 4:garbage |
| 16:44.29 | Alessandro-B | and it breaks dpkg |
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| 16:45.25 | Alessandro-B | same for the package mono-complete |
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| 17:19.44 | jhutchins | I would expect that promoting bullseye would be one of the later tasks, maybe not until Monday. |
| 17:22.02 | Battaglin | yea same |
| 17:22.06 | Battaglin | strange |
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| 17:32.56 | gert_ | anyone know where I should look to debug xfce4? it's not showing my background or responding when I login, until I switch to a tty1-6 then back to tty7 |
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| 17:41.51 | nifker | BCMM: file tells me "ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, with debug_info, not stripped" |
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| 17:57.12 | gour | evening, fresh install of 9.9 on lvm volume, but grub does not boot - "OS not found". i thought that grub can handle root under lvm without separate /boot |
| 17:57.43 | karlpinc | gert_: Sounds more X related than xfce4. Try looking at the X logs. |
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| 17:58.06 | karlpinc | gour: I thought so too. |
| 17:58.28 | gour | i've even added GRUB_PRELOAD_MODULES="lvm", but no luck. update-grub does not show any error |
| 17:58.30 | karlpinc | gour: Using LUKS or some other cryptfs? |
| 17:58.44 | gour | karlpinc: no encryption |
| 17:58.58 | gour | lvm & xfs |
| 17:59.17 | karlpinc | Maybe it's the xfs? |
| 17:59.50 | gour | well, xfs does boot from e.g. mdadm raid1 array just fine on my desktop machine |
| 18:01.31 | gour | it's bios/gpt combo, let me try with uefi... |
| 18:01.34 | karlpinc | gour: Maybe boot from the install cd in rescue mode and then when in shell in your OS re-install grub? |
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| 18:02.10 | gour | karlpinc: i tried several times to fix grub from rescue-mode, but it does not work |
| 18:02.35 | karlpinc | gour: Well, there's 2 ways in rescue mode. One is from the installer but the other is from withing the running O |
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| 18:02.59 | karlpinc | S. The latter maybe would work because it's running from the target OS. (Maybe.) |
| 18:03.27 | gour | karlpinc: ahh, i tried from the real root, iow. not from the installer |
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| 18:05.00 | vash2511 | Hi guys! What should I do with Stretch security repo? Should I remove it from my source list file? |
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| 18:05.13 | karlpinc | gour: There's some re-install grub menu item in the installer. (Why both would not work is a little strange. Although sometimes you need to tell grub things explicitly, maybe it's guessing wrong for some reason.) |
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| 18:05.25 | karlpinc | vash2511: Are you running stretch? |
| 18:05.39 | gour | karlpinc: tried that as well |
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| 18:05.54 | vash2511 | Yes, I am. I'll plan the Buster upgrade later |
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| 18:06.55 | karlpinc | vash2511: Then you want stretch security updates and should keep the repo. To upgrade be sure to read and follow the release notes. (Yes, people hate instructions. But there are a few gotchas.) |
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| 18:10.15 | cirdan | I have a question about python3... does the newer python3-distutils exist in older versions of python3? like in libpython3-stdlib? |
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| 18:10.39 | LtL | karlpinc: are you saying a dist-upgraded buster machine should have a stretch security repo enabled or did i miss something? |
| 18:10.49 | cirdan | want to build a new package on stretch, and it wants python3-distutils but that doesnt exist even in backports |
| 18:11.11 | cirdan | or is it in python3-distutils-extra |
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| 18:14.15 | BCMM | cirdan: does it have to be on Stretch? Buster is out today, and all that... |
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| 18:14.48 | BCMM | hang on, how come python3-distutils-extra is on stretch, but python3-distutils isn't? |
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| 18:16.35 | cirdan | yes it has to be on stretch |
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| 18:16.44 | cirdan | oh is buster out today? heh |
| 18:16.51 | cirdan | still |
| 18:17.50 | cirdan | I saw someone say "Rename the python3-distutils dependency to python3-distutils-extra, which exists in Stretch" for something else |
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| 18:19.11 | BCMM | cirdan: is it just packaged differently on Stretch? are the required files in here? https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/libpython3.5-stdlib/filelist |
| 18:20.20 | BCMM | i'm no expert on python stuff, but at first glance, that seems like (a superset of) substantially the same contents as https://packages.debian.org/sid/all/python3-distutils/filelist |
| 18:20.53 | cirdan | yeah i also saw someone else say the files were in libpython3.5-stdlib |
| 18:21.18 | cirdan | was just trying to figure out the history |
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| 18:22.24 | BCMM | cirdan: all i did was this search https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=distutils%2FREADME&mode=path |
| 18:22.29 | cirdan | ah * python3-distutils: Split out from the Python standard library. |
| 18:22.33 | cirdan | from the changelog |
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| 18:24.41 | aadam | I have attached 1tb internal hdd with usb 2.0 port, don't see on debian where is my hard drive |
| 18:24.55 | BCMM | cirdan: makes sense, since it's not in buster's libpython3.7-stdlib |
| 18:25.16 | cirdan | aadam: check dmesg |
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| 18:25.29 | BCMM | aadam: can you clarify what sort of hard drive you're talking about here? "internal" and "usb" kind of contradict. |
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| 18:26.10 | aadam | I have internal hdd that I used as external using usb adapter |
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| 18:26.50 | EdePopede | aadam: when you connect it there should be entries in kern.log. i got it running inside screen. |
| 18:27.59 | EdePopede | aadam: then do an fdisk to see the partitions, do `file -s /dev/sdX?*` (where X is the device letter) |
| 18:28.39 | EdePopede | and then, if drive and partitionss ar ok, do you have entries in fstab? and if, should they automount on connect? |
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| 18:32.36 | aadam | no automount |
| 18:33.01 | aadam | i am uisng xfce |
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| 18:34.11 | humbot | automounting is optional in xfce |
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| 18:34.40 | humbot | check the obvious stuff first, does your drive get enough current from a usb port? |
| 18:35.05 | aadam | light is on |
| 18:35.11 | aadam | btw |
| 18:35.17 | aadam | I just bought brand new hdd |
| 18:36.17 | aadam | i go this computer |
| 18:36.19 | EdePopede | i have 2 such adapters here, one just a cable with some electronics, and now a closed box, but which isn't very different. both have an extra power cable. |
| 18:36.25 | aadam | and see only my old hdd |
| 18:36.50 | EdePopede | "see" where? |
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| 18:37.05 | aadam | from "Application menu" |
| 18:37.11 | aadam | I go "This Computer" |
| 18:37.25 | EdePopede | don't the file systems appear in the filemanager or isn't the disk recognized at all while connecting it? |
| 18:37.46 | aadam | I connect it and nothing happens in debian |
| 18:38.08 | EdePopede | aadam: disconect it. open a terminal and there: sudo tail -f /var/log/kern.log |
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| 18:38.29 | EdePopede | at the moment you reconnect it (or switch it on then) there should be new entries |
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| 18:41.17 | aadam | yes it detected |
| 18:41.23 | aadam | with this |
| 18:41.26 | aadam | [sdb] No Caching mode page found |
| 18:41.39 | aadam | [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through |
| 18:41.52 | aadam | [sdb] Attached SCSI disk |
| 18:42.00 | EdePopede | ok, did it find any partition? |
| 18:42.15 | EdePopede | oh, and does the size look plausible? |
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| 18:42.45 | aadam | [sdb] 1953525168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.00 TB/932 GiB) |
| 18:43.09 | EdePopede | [sdc] 1953525168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.00 TB/932 GiB) |
| 18:43.13 | EdePopede | wut? :D |
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| 18:43.37 | EdePopede | some lines later there should be a partition list |
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| 18:44.48 | cirdan | aadam: some older usb chipsets dont like large/4k drives |
| 18:44.53 | cirdan | is it a 1tb disk? |
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| 18:45.12 | aadam | yes |
| 18:45.32 | aadam | there is no partition list |
| 18:45.35 | EdePopede | cirdan: fdisk -l /dev/sdb |
| 18:45.38 | EdePopede | oops? |
| 18:46.00 | EdePopede | like this> sdc: sdc1 sdc2 sdc3 sdc4 < sdc5 sdc6 sdc7 sdc8 sdc9 > |
| 18:46.30 | EdePopede | cirdan: then ls -l /dev/sdb* |
| 18:46.43 | EdePopede | cirdan: sooooorry :D |
| 18:47.00 | EdePopede | aadam: this all was meant for you ----^ |
| 18:47.06 | cirdan | hehe |
| 18:47.20 | EdePopede | still confused about my own ned adapter |
| 18:47.24 | EdePopede | * new |
| 18:47.36 | EdePopede | seems that hardware actually DOES socialize |
| 18:48.15 | aadam | hm |
| 18:48.26 | humbot | aadam | I just bought brand new hdd |
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| 18:48.42 | humbot | is this the one you're talking about? |
| 18:48.49 | aadam | yes |
| 18:48.56 | humbot | do new hard drives come partitioned? i don't know |
| 18:49.01 | darkling | Generally, no. |
| 18:49.06 | aadam | they dont |
| 18:49.29 | cirdan | most retail do |
| 18:49.36 | aadam | oh well this is the first time I have ever bought brand new hdd |
| 18:50.00 | EdePopede | i got a maxtor 2TB USB with 1 ntfs and some wd red and seagate unpartitioned |
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| 18:50.19 | humbot | if they do, would it be ntfs? if so, do you have ntfs-3g? |
| 18:50.47 | aadam | in few days I am moving to windows |
| 18:51.20 | EdePopede | OMG why? |
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| 18:52.07 | aadam | to run softwares |
| 18:52.15 | mohsen_1 | is debian 10 going to be released today? |
| 18:52.17 | aadam | animation, art |
| 18:52.35 | zleap | hopefully they are running more tests at the moment |
| 18:52.59 | cirdan | ouch. https://web.archive.org/web/20190706144600/https://github.com/CanonicalLtd |
| 18:53.38 | EdePopede | big ouch |
| 18:53.49 | mandeep | is it possible to move from testing to buster now that buster has been released? |
| 18:54.07 | cirdan | mandeep: just change the source lines to buster |
| 18:54.23 | mandeep | cirdan: that's what i thought, but i imagine there would be a lot of package downgrades due to the freeze |
| 18:54.25 | zleap | i updated from stretch to buster last nightm |
| 18:54.43 | cirdan | testing should be frozen until it's not, no? |
| 18:54.48 | zleap | everything seems to be working fine |
| 18:55.01 | mandeep | i guess i'll change sources and see what apt says |
| 18:55.34 | mandeep | actually sources says buster so i should be fine |
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| 18:57.17 | cybercrypto | Hi there.... got a twitter update about buster release. anyone knows if the release will be today? |
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| 18:57.55 | mohsen_1 | Is 10 now available to install? |
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| 18:58.09 | zleap | not according to the debian.org blog |
| 18:58.40 | jmcnaught | https://micronews.debian.org/ |
| 18:59.12 | jhutchins | cybercrypto: Yes, they are working on the release today. It's not available instantly, it takes work. |
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| 19:01.54 | cybercrypto | jhutchins: I see they are doing preps and rebuild website to point current towards buster (instead of stretch). Great news, thanks |
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| 19:06.58 | RoyK | any idea how for away buster is? |
| 19:07.22 | mohsen_1 | very nice |
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| 19:08.12 | busch | RoyK, Goto #debian-cd on irc.oftc.net. They are still testing atm |
| 19:08.25 | RoyK | ok |
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| 19:13.29 | RisingTide | Why when I join #postfix it says #postfix :Cannot send to nick/channel |
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| 19:14.21 | BCMM | RisingTide: did you read the /topic? |
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| 19:15.05 | BCMM | RisingTide: "Register with Nickserv to speak goo.gl/dQ26k9" |
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| 19:15.22 | netcrash | How to reset a password of root on a host that has lvm disks? Is it possible via grub to load lvm? |
| 19:15.53 | BCMM | RisingTide: a lot of channels on freenode require you to register before you can talk. they get a lot of spam problems otherwise. |
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| 19:17.28 | jhutchins | !ifrp |
| 19:17.28 | dpkg | For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt. |
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| 19:29.31 | cybercrypto | !dpkg ports |
| 19:29.31 | dpkg | rumour has it, ports is http://www.debian.org/ports/ or http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/port-numbers or the FreeBSD ports system etc etc |
| 19:30.21 | cybercrypto | !dpkg dpkg |
| 19:30.21 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, dpkg is the program used by Debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <reference>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>. |
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| 19:31.09 | annadane | feel free to /msg the bot |
| 19:31.28 | annadane | also you don't have to !dpkg, can just use ! |
| 19:31.58 | cybercrypto | annadane: :-)) |
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| 19:35.44 | netcrash | jhutchins: it seems to change the passwd , but after reboot it does not work. I'll try something else, thank you |
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| 20:02.17 | HelloShitty | Hello. Is it possible for me to find out what is the device assigned (sd?...) to my samba external drive share from my laptop? |
| 20:02.52 | HelloShitty | I have this external drive in attache to a wireless device and I shared it with samba so that I can access it from my laptop |
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| 20:03.25 | HelloShitty | but I need to mount it in my laptop, for convenience instead of using smbclient directly |
| 20:04.31 | nkuttler | HelloShitty: um, a remote fs has a mountpoint, not a device |
| 20:04.32 | HelloShitty | the problem is that if I turn off the device that the external drive is plugged to, next time I turn it on, it might be mounted on that wireless device with a different device name, sdb, sdc, etc |
| 20:05.23 | HelloShitty | This device is an IPTV box, using AndroidOS, so it mount the drive within it's system |
| 20:05.26 | nkuttler | HelloShitty: you can configure udev to give devices specific names |
| 20:06.07 | HelloShitty | then I mount it on my laptop but I always have to go to that IPTV box, check which device was assigned to the external drive |
| 20:06.22 | HelloShitty | so that I can mount it on my laptop as a cifs filesystem |
| 20:06.31 | ewew | Hi. Is there any info about the release time ? |
| 20:06.59 | HelloShitty | I wanted to know if it was possible either to find which device name it was assigned to or the UUID, if it has one |
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| 20:07.08 | HelloShitty | so that I can mount it automatically on boot |
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| 20:08.30 | humpled | HelloShitty |
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| 20:09.21 | HelloShitty | yes |
| 20:09.57 | humpled | nothing i just like saying your name |
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| 20:11.27 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: I believe you could auto-mount your device using fstab. Are you facing any specific error? |
| 20:11.27 | annadane | "Debian 10 buster has 28,939 source packages with 11,610,055 source files" |
| 20:11.30 | annadane | :D |
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| 20:13.29 | HelloShitty | cybercrypto: the problem is that if I turn of this iptv device, the next time I turn it on, that external drive attached to it might be mounted with a different name from the previous one. For instance, today it is sdd. If I turn the iptv device off today and tomorrow morning I turn it on, it might be assigned to sdc or any other sd? device |
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| 20:15.05 | humpled | i'm wondering how you manage to share it if you don't know its name |
| 20:15.32 | humpled | sudo blkid will show you the UUID though, and maybe a LABEL or you could assign one |
| 20:15.47 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: I see. Have you tried to use UUID instead of device? |
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| 20:16.20 | HelloShitty | yes, but UUID is assigned within the iptv device, no? Not from my laptop OS, I guess |
| 20:16.35 | HelloShitty | or can the UUID of the drive be shared wirelessly somehow»? |
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| 20:16.58 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: Since the UUID is stored in the disk partition itself, it does not matter if the actual device name changes, we have a guaranteed persistent, predictable method for accessing it. |
| 20:17.14 | HelloShitty | I understand it |
| 20:17.25 | HelloShitty | but can I access it from my laptop? |
| 20:17.49 | humpled | we have no idea what software you are mounting it with on the IPTV |
| 20:17.57 | HelloShitty | I mean, can I test if I can "discover" the drive once I find out the UUID of the drive from my laptop? |
| 20:18.22 | HelloShitty | AndroidOS mounts it |
| 20:18.26 | HelloShitty | I have no idea either |
| 20:18.28 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: You want your laptop to auto-mount a remote filesystem which is running in an IPTV-server? |
| 20:18.34 | HelloShitty | but wouldn't it also be 'mount"? |
| 20:18.47 | HelloShitty | yes, kind of |
| 20:18.58 | HelloShitty | It's not an IPTV-server, it's only an IPTV receiver |
| 20:19.17 | HelloShitty | which has an USB3.0 connection and I plugged there this external drive |
| 20:19.36 | HelloShitty | so that I could access its contents from anywhere within my home wireless |
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| 20:21.52 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: Ok, so let's say that your IPTV-box is up and running the services just fine. Your debian-client-laptop needs to 'mount' what in order to consume the IPTV-box service? |
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| 20:22.27 | HelloShitty | no no... I might have explained myself poorly |
| 20:22.48 | HelloShitty | this drive I have attached to my iptv box is just kind of a backup drive |
| 20:23.00 | HelloShitty | I'm not trying to watch TV on my laptop or so |
| 20:23.13 | HelloShitty | it's just a rive where I save movies, series, music, etc |
| 20:23.29 | HelloShitty | and I wanted to share that content over my wireless network |
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| 20:24.30 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: So, you want to auto-mount your IPTV-box external-usb-drive on every boot. You are not achieving this due to 'dynamic device assignments' (sdb/sdc/sdd etc...) |
| 20:24.36 | HelloShitty | and instead of saving "recordings" from the IPTV service in the internal iptv box storage, I want to save those "recordings" into that external drive |
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| 20:24.48 | HelloShitty | yes |
| 20:24.51 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: Tell me... is your IPTV-box running debian? |
| 20:25.00 | HelloShitty | no, it's Android |
| 20:25.19 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: :-( that' sad.... |
| 20:25.33 | HelloShitty | But I guess Android also uses Linux based commands to run many tasks |
| 20:25.41 | HelloShitty | and mount is probably one of them |
| 20:25.53 | HelloShitty | I remember to do the same on my Samsung smatphones |
| 20:25.59 | HelloShitty | using adb bridge |
| 20:26.19 | HelloShitty | even the system folder/file tree is identical |
| 20:26.24 | HelloShitty | partitions, etc |
| 20:26.33 | HelloShitty | of course that this might mean nothing |
| 20:26.39 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: I dont know much about androidos, but you will have same auto-mount options as debian. Perhaps you can get more info from android channel |
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| 20:27.12 | HelloShitty | I'm not sure my iptv box has any dedicated irc channel |
| 20:27.17 | HelloShitty | it is russian made |
| 20:27.30 | HelloShitty | and it's said to be one of the best Android IPTV boxes on the market |
| 20:27.36 | HelloShitty | It's Formuler brand |
| 20:27.41 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: try to mount using LABEL and UUID. that may work for you. |
| 20:28.19 | HelloShitty | I just don't know if I can (kind of) "fetch" that info about the external drive from my laptop |
| 20:28.23 | HelloShitty | you know what I mean? |
| 20:28.43 | HelloShitty | like, if that is done locally by the AndroidOS "inside" iptv box |
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| 20:28.58 | HelloShitty | will am I able to access that info from my laptop? |
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| 20:29.49 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: take a look at this, for start: https://www.thegeekdiary.com/inconsistent-device-names-across-reboot-cause-mount-failure-or-incorrect-mount-in-linux/ |
| 20:29.56 | cybercrypto | HelloShitty: brb |
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| 20:30.15 | HelloShitty | I ran blkid and obviously I got info about what I have locally in my laptop |
| 20:30.17 | HelloShitty | ok, |
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| 20:30.31 | nkuttler | what the fuck.. since when does systemd now handle gpg-agent.. |
| 20:31.29 | annadane | lol |
| 20:31.37 | annadane | not a fan? |
| 20:31.55 | nkuttler | fucking user services.. and i need to be root to configure it? |
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| 20:32.48 | jmcnaught | systemctl --user status gpg-agent.service |
| 20:32.56 | jmcnaught | you don't need to be root |
| 20:33.51 | humpled | so plug the drive into your laptop and then run the command |
| 20:34.03 | Lady_Aleena | One quick question, is buster's sources.list the same as stretch's sources.list just with buster instead of stretch? https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list |
| 20:34.30 | Lady_Aleena | The wiki hasn't been updated yet. |
| 20:35.10 | humpled | it should be mounted at /dev/disk/by-uuid/<UUID> HelloShitty, if as you say, android is like linux |
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| 20:36.19 | Lady_Aleena | Another quick question, which ISO do I want to download and burn as a backup just in case something goes kersplat during the dist-upgrade? https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ |
| 20:36.28 | HelloShitty | But I don't know the UUID of the drive nor I know a way of finding it from my laptop |
| 20:36.41 | humpled | so plug it into your laptop |
| 20:37.22 | HelloShitty | I'll try to run blkid in my iptv box to see what it returns, if anything is returned |
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| 20:37.48 | humpled | probably nothing without sudo |
| 20:37.49 | HelloShitty | I can't unplug the drive now because I have rtorrent running and it is hashing data in that drive |
| 20:38.04 | HelloShitty | hum, ywah,good point there |
| 20:38.05 | HelloShitty | :s |
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| 20:38.07 | jmcnaught | HelloShitty: if your drive is not plugged into a Debian system then you should go to #android for support. #debian doesn't even support distros based on debian let alone android |
| 20:38.42 | HelloShitty | I'm not asking anything about Android |
| 20:38.53 | HelloShitty | I'm on the correct channel for now for my questions/discussion |
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| 20:39.15 | HelloShitty | I'm discussing options to mount a device, no matter in what filesystem it is attached at |
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| 20:39.35 | HelloShitty | neither what OS it is running and rulling the drive |
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| 20:40.36 | HelloShitty | One other question completelly different |
| 20:40.48 | HelloShitty | what is the default swappiness value on Debian? |
| 20:41.20 | HelloShitty | and when I set a value in sysctl.conf, does this one over rules the one in /proc/sys/vm/swappiness ? |
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| 20:42.34 | HelloShitty | btw, about the labels and UUIDs, I don't even know that can be done because , right now, I'm mounting the drive manually by issuing the following command: |
| 20:42.58 | Lady_Aleena | Reason for the first question is that the repository list changed between jessie and stretch, so I need to know if the repository list has changed between stretch and buster. |
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| 20:43.39 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: to update your sources.list you change every 'stretch' to 'buster' |
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| 20:43.46 | HelloShitty | sudo mount -t cifs -o uid=$(id -u),gid=$(id -g) //ip.of.samba.share/share/media_rw/sdb1 /media/iptvstorage |
| 20:44.12 | HelloShitty | so I have the path for the partition as an IP |
| 20:44.22 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, so no new repositories then? |
| 20:44.24 | HelloShitty | not sure I can replace that by an UUID or LABEL |
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| 20:44.52 | HelloShitty | because probably my laptop won't be able to "discover" "where" is that UUID or LABEL |
| 20:45.07 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: no only the codename changes |
| 20:45.21 | maxxe | buster? |
| 20:45.25 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, thanks. |
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| 20:53.23 | karlpinc | LtL: No. He says he is runing stretch, so he should have the stretch security repos enabled. Until he (follows the upgrade instructions in the release notes) and upgrades to buster. |
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| 20:55.00 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, I had to ask, because stretch sources repositories were different from jessie sources repositories: http://paste.debian.net/1090527/ |
| 20:57.16 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: It looks like for stretch you have deb-src repositories for source packages which are optional, and then for jessie you have the http://mozilla.debian.net/ repo which isn't updated anymore |
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| 20:57.58 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, so I didn't need deb-src, but it was nice to have? |
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| 20:58.43 | usney | is debian testing safe? |
| 20:58.53 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: you only need deb-src if you're building source packages, you can of course always add them later |
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| 20:59.02 | LtL | karlpinc: got it, i mis-read it. thanks |
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| 20:59.23 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, okay, I will comment them out. I don't know if I have ever built a source package. |
| 20:59.32 | karlpinc | usney: Safe for what? The classic answer is that the point of debian is to produce a stable release. Some people do using testing. |
| 20:59.52 | jmcnaught | usney: today testing is being released as the new stable, Debian 10. Using testing immediately after a stable release can be turbulent, also testing does not get security support |
| 20:59.53 | karlpinc | usney: The new debian stable (10.0, buster) is released today. |
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| 21:00.11 | usney | wow |
| 21:00.18 | usney | thanks karlpinc |
| 21:00.32 | Lady_Aleena | Has buster been released yet as stable yet? Or should I wait a few more hours? |
| 21:00.42 | Lady_Aleena | ...or until tomorrow? |
| 21:00.47 | karlpinc | !tell usney about stable |
| 21:01.11 | usney | why do some linux distros based their os on debian testing instead of debian stable? |
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| 21:01.17 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: the process is still underway but you don't need to wait it's not going to change between now and then |
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| 21:02.12 | Lady_Aleena | Well, I should go to the store first, then upgrade. |
| 21:02.13 | tehnull | !tell tehnull about stable |
| 21:02.48 | jmcnaught | tehnull: you can also '/msg dpkg stable' |
| 21:02.53 | Lady_Aleena | Now about which iso to download as a backup? |
| 21:04.37 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: until the official buster ISO images are released this is probably the newest: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/buster_di_rc3/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 21:05.21 | karlpinc | usney: Some do because testing has newer packages, because stable is only released every 2-ish years, more or less. |
| 21:05.22 | Lady_Aleena | I might wait until the official ISO images are released. |
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| 21:05.56 | karlpinc | usney: Ubuntu does because they want a 6 month release cycle, so they would keep releasing the same release every 6 months if they based on stable. |
| 21:06.28 | karlpinc | usney: Debian stable is all about having something that "just works" and you don't have to fuss with. |
| 21:07.09 | karlpinc | usney: The short answer is: ask them. |
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| 21:07.47 | Lady_Aleena | Is there a timeline for when the official ISO images will be released, or should I just wait and see? |
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| 21:11.07 | abhikpal | Lady_Aleena: possibly just wait an see. They just posted (on https://micronews.debian.org/) that the testing of the live images is almost done. |
| 21:11.11 | abhikpal | *and |
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| 21:23.57 | tick | hello world. |
| 21:24.11 | Sveta | hi |
| 21:24.14 | wgertler | hey! |
| 21:24.49 | tick | I'm not used to IRC channels... |
| 21:25.38 | tick | everybody on Debian here? |
| 21:26.11 | Sveta | nearly everyone - some people used debian before or will use it in the future :-) |
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| 21:27.01 | tick | I try to switch to FreeBSD but Kde plasma 4 is no supported since this year and plasma 5 seems to be...neurotic |
| 21:27.12 | Sveta | try trinity desktop |
| 21:27.20 | tick | thank you |
| 21:28.33 | tick | anybody using BSD as main OS? |
| 21:28.43 | tick | on laptop? |
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| 21:30.48 | dvs | tick, why are you asking about BSD here? |
| 21:31.16 | tarzeau | tick: debian gnu/kfreebsd |
| 21:31.48 | tick | funny story: I tried to connect to FreeBSD chat, did wrong and while googling for instructions I ended up here |
| 21:32.21 | tarzeau | Sveta: come on, you as #gnustep user recommend non-gnustep stuff? |
| 21:32.28 | tick | I'm not familiar with Hexchat login procedure and IRC generally |
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| 21:32.47 | Lady_Aleena | Okay, so hold off on the upgrade until the official buster images are live. |
| 21:33.00 | metrix | I heard Buster might release this weekend. Is that just rumor? is there anything official? |
| 21:33.12 | annadane | it's supposed to be today |
| 21:33.15 | annadane | it's soon, in any event |
| 21:33.26 | annadane | learn how to subscribe to mailing lists, people! |
| 21:33.31 | wgertler | they tweeted they're almost done live image tests |
| 21:33.37 | ewew | It planned. Check the devel mailing list |
| 21:33.47 | tick | Honestly it's the reason why I got here, but I am using debian all the time because FreeBSD GUI won't work. |
| 21:33.47 | metrix | Nice! |
| 21:33.52 | tarzeau | i'm sure they'll not release while i hang my laundry |
| 21:34.06 | annadane | so many people coming in here "is debian supposed to release today?" it's weird how you can use it and not know |
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| 21:34.43 | tick | there a new debian version release today? |
| 21:34.51 | Sveta | yes, buster |
| 21:35.06 | wgertler | annadane: I mean, there are plenty of people who use the software because it just works and aren't keeping up with new developments, right? |
| 21:35.19 | annadane | for sure |
| 21:35.23 | wgertler | I mean, especially amongst stable users haha |
| 21:35.41 | metrix | Yeah, that's where i'm at. It's the reason I never went to another distribution in 15+ years |
| 21:36.14 | tick | I do have fedora too, but it's still 23 and there's only postgres running. |
| 21:36.24 | Sveta | annadane, why not ship debian with a newsreader which is already subscribed to the relevant newsgroups? mailing lists are a pain to manage by email |
| 21:36.38 | Sveta | lots of messages |
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| 21:37.30 | wgertler | I think I grew up too late to get into usenets and mailing lists- the sheer quantity of info just looks intimidating |
| 21:38.06 | jmcnaught | debian-announce mailing list has only had three posts this year so far |
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| 21:38.48 | Sveta | i mean asking people to specify their email address when they install debian would be a bit un-needed if all they need to do is read the announcements |
| 21:39.19 | dvs | jmcnaught, too many articles!!!! ;-) |
| 21:39.28 | annadane | i'd at minimum subscribe to debian-announce and debian-security-announce, unless i guess one sets up unattended upgrades |
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| 21:44.17 | Lady_Aleena | Maybe the channel's topic should be updated. 8) |
| 21:44.58 | tick | hail Debian |
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| 21:50.05 | Posterdati | hi |
| 21:50.16 | Posterdati | I cannot find amarok in buster... |
| 21:50.31 | tick | hello |
| 21:50.42 | tick | yellow |
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| 21:52.34 | tarzeau | Posterdati: it's not there according: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=amarok |
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| 21:53.24 | Posterdati | tarzeau: is there anything that replace it? |
| 21:53.51 | tarzeau | Posterdati: there's probably other software that can do the same, here's the cause bugs.debian.org/921194 |
| 21:53.58 | jezebel | congratulations on the release! lots of hard work involved no doubt. thanks to you all! |
| 21:54.08 | magic_ninja_work | Heck yea. Good job guys. |
| 21:54.20 | tarzeau | jezebel: it's not out yet, according to debian.org |
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| 21:54.34 | jezebel | aww a little premature |
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| 21:54.51 | annadane | if we all download at the same time we'll probably crash the servers :P |
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| 21:55.47 | jezebel | well i look forward to it :) thanks to you all still! |
| 21:56.08 | magic_ninja_work | I had to move away from debian for my laptop :( |
| 21:56.08 | Battaglin | https://imgur.com/a/HUiOwc5 |
| 21:56.08 | tarzeau | annadane: 1516 nicks, i doubt. |
| 21:56.12 | Battaglin | not active yet |
| 21:56.14 | Battaglin | :-( |
| 21:56.18 | magic_ninja_work | still great on my desktop, though. |
| 21:56.34 | tarzeau | annadane: a properly configure nginx can handle that. |
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| 21:57.34 | Posterdati | :( |
| 21:57.43 | tick | thanx for advice and bye |
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| 21:59.17 | Battaglin | https://cdimage.debian.org/images/.buster_release/debian-cd/amd64/iso-cd/debian-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 21:59.20 | Battaglin | hehe |
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| 22:00.58 | annadane | nope nope nope! waiting for my email announcement. :-D |
| 22:01.06 | Battaglin | haha |
| 22:01.11 | annadane | no cheating! |
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| 22:01.29 | Battaglin | those were up like 10 hrs ago |
| 22:01.34 | Battaglin | announced on FB even |
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| 22:02.03 | Battaglin | I guess the images arent fully "tested" yet |
| 22:02.07 | Battaglin | whatever that means |
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| 22:09.39 | jasonwc | Are the torrents not up yet? I'm getting a "Tracker: [Failure reason \"torrent not found\"] message. I wanted to seed them on my gigabit connection. |
| 22:10.27 | jan6 | I'd assume they'll be available about the official release time? interesting they're not up tho... |
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| 22:11.31 | Nic_Wow | Is there a specific time that Debian Buster becomes stable? |
| 22:11.39 | Nic_Wow | (that is today, right!) |
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| 22:11.55 | jasonwc | I mean, I can download the ISOs now |
| 22:11.59 | jasonwc | They're already up for testing |
| 22:12.49 | Wulf | Nic_Wow: go get some sleep and dream of Buster. And perhaps that dream will have come true when you wake up! |
| 22:13.16 | Nic_Wow | noice, is there a wiki article to follow for users upgrading from Sretch? |
| 22:13.26 | jan6 | pretty sure it's the same as always |
| 22:13.27 | Nic_Wow | Are there missing packages not yet in the Buster repo? |
| 22:13.41 | ssgelm | I doubt it |
| 22:13.49 | jasonwc | Nic_Wow, This is what you want: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/releasenotes |
| 22:13.53 | ssgelm | it's just promoting testing -> stable |
| 22:13.56 | Nic_Wow | jan6: Haven't ran debian long enough to need to upgrade |
| 22:14.00 | Wulf | Nic_Wow: you could reinstall from scratch. |
| 22:14.03 | ssgelm | and tons of people have been using testing for a long time |
| 22:14.12 | jan6 | ^testing is the best ;P |
| 22:14.28 | joze | I hope my vps provider adopts buster soon, with all its scripts I have no idea what they are doing. |
| 22:14.42 | Nic_Wow | Alright, so it auto updates when it becomes stable? (after doing apt-get install upgrade) |
| 22:14.43 | jan6 | I like to reinstall at every big release, make a backup of /home and reinstall everything else |
| 22:14.48 | tarzeau | ssgelm: much more have been using sid for an even longer time |
| 22:14.57 | ssgelm | tarzeau: oh totally I am one of them :D |
| 22:15.06 | ssgelm | just was saying that all should be complete |
| 22:15.24 | Nic_Wow | it takes like 6 hours to install tho, guess I could install while asleep but it takes some time. |
| 22:15.25 | ssgelm | and testing especially should generally be installable without issue |
| 22:15.39 | joze | is mariadb an option or shall I try postgres? |
| 22:15.39 | ssgelm | Nic_Wow: there really shouldn't be a need to re-install |
| 22:15.50 | jasonwc | Nic_Wow, It depends whether your sources.list points to "stable" or "stretch" |
| 22:15.53 | joze | all those oppurtunities |
| 22:15.54 | ssgelm | joze: mariadb is in buster (and stretch) |
| 22:16.03 | jan6 | Nic_Wow: 6 hours, what are you on, a 15 year old computer? |
| 22:16.48 | jasonwc | Nic_Wow, Typically, you don't want your system updating without your knowledge so it's best to specify the release name (stretch) and then upgrade when you're ready. For example, upgrading can break some packages if configuration options changed. See https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#upgrade-specific-issues for examples. |
| 22:16.52 | Nic_Wow | No, but it is dying. I use a couple year old Inspiron 15. |
| 22:17.04 | tarzeau | jasonwc: i wish there were parts in that document showing how to install openrc safely, and how to disable/get rid of apparmor |
| 22:17.26 | Nic_Wow | Is that an unusal amount of time to reinstall an OS? |
| 22:17.52 | Wulf | yeah. It shouldn't take more than 30min. |
| 22:17.52 | tarzeau | jasonwc: and i'd also mention zram-tools in that release notes |
| 22:18.06 | Nic_Wow | does that include when the installer wipes the drive? |
| 22:18.07 | jan6 | yes, less than an hour is normal, takes about 15 min with an ssd for me |
| 22:18.51 | jan6 | wiping an hdd might take some time, but shouldn't take over 15 min, imo |
| 22:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1522] by debhelper |
| 22:19.04 | jan6 | unless it's a really slow drive |
| 22:19.07 | Nic_Wow | wierd...... |
| 22:19.14 | jasonwc | tarzeau, Can't you just remove apparmor, or set the profiles to ignore mode? |
| 22:19.26 | Nic_Wow | I figured everybody was like this and maybe debian was super paranoid XD |
| 22:19.28 | annadane | i'm upgrading! not installing from scratch :D |
| 22:19.39 | tarzeau | jasonwc: sure i can, i was thinking for the people that can't |
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| 22:19.56 | jasonwc | Has anyone tested creating their own MOK key and using it to sign DKMS modules? |
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| 22:20.01 | jasonwc | for Secure Boot? |
| 22:20.31 | ssgelm | oh, well if you use a LUKS encrypted disk and choose to zero the disk (as you should with LUKS) I could see it taking a long time |
| 22:20.32 | jasonwc | Nic_Wow, The initial install is always faster than an upgrade because it doesn't use sync writes. |
| 22:20.34 | ssgelm | if the disk is slow |
| 22:20.46 | jasonwc | Nic_Wow, apt upgrade is heavy on sync writes |
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| 22:21.17 | jasonwc | Installing a limited system onto an NVMe disk only takes a few minutes for me |
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| 22:21.26 | jan6 | Nic_Wow: using an ssd can speed up things a ton, if you're planning to stick to that computer then upgrade to an ssd might be worth considering, if possible, to reduce the time somewhat ;P (my thinkpad from like, 2011 is very nice and snappy) |
| 22:22.09 | Nic_Wow | I'm actually researching getting a new laptop. Something without non-free drivers. |
| 22:22.13 | jan6 | good |
| 22:22.23 | Nic_Wow | Any recommendations for laptops? |
| 22:22.29 | jan6 | if you're lazy you can buy stuff from purism or such ;P |
| 22:23.22 | Nic_Wow | What do you mean "lazy"? |
| 22:23.41 | jan6 | they have everything bundled up and ready to go |
| 22:23.49 | jan6 | instead of you doing research |
| 22:24.15 | epony | assemble from parts :-D |
| 22:24.27 | epony | (in short, fuck laptops) |
| 22:24.53 | wgertler | Nic_Wow: you can get plenty of excellent old thinkpads for dirt cheap |
| 22:25.20 | Nic_Wow | Building laptops and keeping them small is super hard. |
| 22:25.34 | Nic_Wow | Correct me if wrong, but your talking desktops. |
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| 22:25.51 | jan6 | thinkpad x series is rock solid, and as I said, even my x220 from like, 2011 or thereabouts is very snappy and runs everything fine, except games |
| 22:26.43 | wgertler | jan6: ++ |
| 22:26.56 | epony | better get T series or an entry class "business" (with Radeon discrete or Intel graphics) |
| 22:27.09 | wgertler | T series is also pretty tight, at least up to 450 (after that I don't have much experience) |
| 22:27.17 | Battaglin | T480 8650U ftw |
| 22:27.17 | jasonwc | Unless you need the portability, desktops are easier to build, cheaper, and more powerful. |
| 22:27.22 | jan6 | don't remember if it was T or L series, which was basically just cheaper versions of the X series |
| 22:27.24 | epony | HPs are also passable on the entry business line |
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| 22:27.30 | jasonwc | Easier to choose parts that utilize free drivers |
| 22:27.35 | epony | (the consumer class laptops are not worth your time) |
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| 22:28.16 | vash2511_ | My x230 works like a charm |
| 22:28.21 | jan6 | desktops are good if you CAN use them, plus side is that you can always for example, vnc from a cheapo laptop and continue stuff on the go that way ;P |
| 22:28.40 | haze67 | is there a PCB overview program for linux that is free with a huge database that has laptops, phones and other PCB overview ? |
| 22:29.10 | epony | I hate intel (lenovo) laptops, too proprietary / hardware compatibility issues with spares, batteries etc. |
| 22:29.27 | epony | s/intel/ibm/ |
| 22:30.05 | Nic_Wow | My issue with running fully desktop is that I need a machine I can take places. |
| 22:30.26 | magic_ninja_work | I have both. I may swap over. |
| 22:30.31 | epony | any entry business line laptop with intel/radeon graphics will work fine |
| 22:30.32 | magic_ninja_work | I don't know though, I run a media server and such from it too. |
| 22:30.37 | magic_ninja_work | Pretty much just use the laptop for work. |
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| 22:43.47 | BCMM | HaZeTJ: i'm curious as to what sort of software you're talking about. does something like that exist for other platforms? |
| 22:44.13 | BCMM | do you mean, like, a database of PCB layouts from real-world hardware? |
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| 22:46.04 | zbychuk | Hi, what is with Debian 10 Buster? Does you know when it will be released? I'am waiting... |
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| 22:46.21 | jan6 | very soon⢠|
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| 22:46.54 | ewew | i guess there are some last checks before official release. |
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| 22:47.05 | humbot | why wait tho? |
| 22:47.11 | epony | at least 1 day before CentOS 8 |
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| 22:47.46 | zbychuk | I want to download big brdl image using jigdo, soo.... |
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| 22:49.10 | vash2511_ | *zbychuck* follow the micronews page |
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| 23:10.16 | eletronico_hw | hello guy |
| 23:10.29 | epony | s |
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| 23:11.19 | epony | or Fawkes |
| 23:11.25 | eletronico_hw | npm update check failed Try running with sudo or get access â |
| 23:11.25 | eletronico_hw | â to the local update config store via |
| 23:11.53 | eletronico_hw | how can i make npm update |
| 23:12.11 | eletronico_hw | ? |
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| 23:13.13 | eletronico_hw | the error in shell : sudo chown -R $USER:$(id -gn $USER) /home/roro/.config |
| 23:13.22 | jasonwc | Regarding 5.1.6. Module configuration for bonding and dummy interfaces in the release notes, why is systemd being used for network configuration? I have to override a systemd default configuration setting regarding bonding even though I have no intention of using systemd for setting up my network? |
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| 23:18.31 | whoamix3 | hi |
| 23:18.39 | magic_ninja | stupid flash drives keep automounting as read-only |
| 23:19.08 | magic_ninja | it is an OS installer. |
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| 23:25.06 | humbot | that is normal |
| 23:27.14 | magic_ninja | what is the "lock" for that? |
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| 23:27.31 | magic_ninja | I would be nice to be able to copy files over to my OS installers. I used to do it all the time. |
| 23:27.51 | humbot | if it is an iso |
| 23:28.41 | humbot | the cdimage is a kind of complete packed filesystem to itself, you can't simply add or take things away |
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| 23:29.02 | magic_ninja | well, you can add/remove from the ISO |
| 23:29.15 | magic_ninja | but that is so strange. |
| 23:29.22 | humbot | oh? |
| 23:29.24 | magic_ninja | Can't even be read by a partition manager |
| 23:29.51 | magic_ninja | It is just a relatively new thing. |
| 23:29.54 | humbot | yes it overwrites the partition table |
| 23:29.58 | magic_ninja | OS installers didn't used to be written like that. |
| 23:30.03 | magic_ninja | Well duh |
| 23:30.05 | humbot | that's why you have to repartition afterwards |
| 23:30.17 | magic_ninja | nevermind dude. |
| 23:30.19 | humbot | you just wrote it straight to the stick right? |
| 23:30.29 | humbot | it's fairly simple to unpack the iso onto the stick and install syslinux |
| 23:30.34 | humbot | generally :þ |
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| 23:32.51 | magic_ninja | What I'm saying is that it is relatively new for OS installers to take up the drive and lock everything else out of it |
| 23:33.01 | magic_ninja | That is NOT common and it has NOT always been the practice. |
| 23:33.15 | ectospasm | ISO 9660 is always read-only, it's not meant to be written to like a typical filesystem. |
| 23:33.27 | tfgbd_ | Linux isn't the only |
| 23:33.35 | tfgbd_ | 'os' |
| 23:33.46 | humbot | :o |
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| 23:34.04 | tfgbd_ | Some OSes like Debian can't even be installed |
| 23:34.25 | ectospasm | And it depends on the setup. If you dd an ISO image to a USB flash drive, the resulting filesystem will definitely be read-only. |
| 23:34.42 | magic_ninja | I'm not sure of the underlying mechanism, though. |
| 23:34.44 | tfgbd_ | Or how about Rufus |
| 23:35.18 | magic_ninja | So it isn't a flag or something of some sort, it is the file system that the installer is using. |
| 23:35.33 | ectospasm | Right. |
| 23:35.41 | magic_ninja | That was my question, thank you. |
| 23:36.05 | magic_ninja | So no matter what I do, unless I set up the file system, make it bootable, and put the files on there myself, I can't find a device I can copy files on AND have an OS installer. |
| 23:36.08 | ectospasm | If you have a disk image that is some other filesystem, it could definitely have a writable partition as part of it. |
| 23:36.12 | tfgbd_ | I never used the Debian installer yet. |
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| 23:36.36 | tfgbd_ | I use third party debians from someone else because I have to |
| 23:36.46 | tfgbd_ | (RPI and Android) |
| 23:37.10 | tfgbd_ | There are some really good debootstraps for android |
| 23:37.19 | ectospasm | magic_ninja: I'm sure there are non-ISO images that do that out of the box, but I don't know of any specifically. |
| 23:37.20 | lembron | > W: Conflicting distribution: http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates InRelease (expected stretch/updates but got buster) |
| 23:37.39 | lembron | uhm... some wiki says buster is about scheduled, but i dont see a release post or anything anywhere |
| 23:37.47 | Sveta | did the day end? |
| 23:37.51 | ectospasm | lembron: buster is scheduled for release today |
| 23:37.52 | magic_ninja | It says in the etcher docs to use rufus instead. |
| 23:37.52 | lembron | + that message reas as if the ftp got screwed? |
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| 23:38.14 | magic_ninja | So I'm guessing that etcher does a bit-for-bit copy right onto the disk. |
| 23:38.35 | ectospasm | lembron: the transition is supposed to happen today. |
| 23:38.45 | Waxhead | ectospasm: What time zone does debian officially follow? Here in Norway it is 7/7 at 1:39 in the morning. |
| 23:39.03 | ectospasm | Waxhead: I'm not sure. |
| 23:39.35 | lembron | still so, i would expect that error from "stable" maybe, but my sources.list (and that error) clearly list "stretch" |
| 23:39.54 | ectospasm | But your URL doesn't, lembron |
| 23:39.56 | lembron | so this ftp should remain until it goes over to archive.debian shouldnt it? |
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| 23:41.01 | lembron | so if not `deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main` - what shall be there?.... |
| 23:41.31 | ectospasm | it's probably in a weird state because of the transition. |
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| 23:41.50 | roflbot | you getting the warning too? "expected stable but got buster" or something? |
| 23:41.52 | ectospasm | stretch is becoming old-stable today. |
| 23:42.23 | roflbot | I should probably wait a little with apt upgrade? |
| 23:42.50 | lembron | more than a little as it seems.... i cant help but think smth screwed up there... |
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| 23:43.16 | roflbot | hooray for buster! A big day anyways :D |
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| 23:44.33 | tfg3 | oops,must have gotten disconnected |
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| 23:47.32 | lembron | well there is prob automation failing everywhere right now... - apt in debian docker and everything is hosed... |
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| 23:49.05 | Sveta | is it always like this on the release day? "expected stable but got buster"? |
| 23:50.14 | Battaglin | https://imgur.com/224Ywvn |
| 23:50.20 | Battaglin | peers going nuts |
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| 23:53.16 | dstaring | If you type "apt-check" in your Debian, what does it output? (Possibly have to run /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check ) |
| 23:53.52 | Waxhead | since debian 10 is now officially released according to www.debian.org , I would like to point out that the news link does not work : https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20190706 |
| 23:55.08 | lembron | it appears as if things been fixed... |
| 23:55.23 | lembron | cloudinstances are installing again =) |
| 23:55.36 | Battaglin | lots of south american peers |
| 23:55.43 | Battaglin | in fact a whole lot |
| 23:55.58 | lembron | *pings* roflbot |
| 23:56.50 | Sveta | Waxhead: it has been added and will appear there in a little bit |
| 23:57.02 | Sveta | Waxhead: please check back a bit later |
| 23:57.05 | Waxhead | Sveta: alrighty then! :) |
| 23:57.11 | roflbot | lembron: pong :) Should I test again? |
| 23:57.22 | lembron | roflbot yep, things are back to working for me |
| 23:57.25 | roflbot | nice |
| 23:58.25 | roflbot | lembron: still getting the errors, but using the ftp.no.debian.org servers, so they could be a little behind probably |
| 23:58.34 | roflbot | s/errors/warnings/ |
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| 23:59.16 | lembron | could be, my dockerstuff hops only http://deb.debian.org/debian |
